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Blog poll: Burnett, Lowe or Sheets?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Back during the GM Meetings, it seemed like Derek Lowe would become a hot commodity given his success, durability and desire to be back on the East Coast.

That is exactly what has transpired given Brian Cashman’s meeting with Scott Boras yesterday. The Yankees are reaching out to Lowe and seem to have targeted him along with Sabathia.

Lowe for three or four years would seem to make more sense than A.J. Burnett at a higher rate for five. But both have offers on the table from the Bronx.

Lowe has said he wants to return to the Red Sox. But Boston has less of a need for starters than the Yankees. The Mets also figure to get into the mix.

This seems like a good time to ask. Would you rather have Burnett, Lowe or Ben Sheets? Vote over to the right.

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239 Responses to “Blog poll: Burnett, Lowe or Sheets?”

  1. Corey December 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    1. Lowe
    2. Sheets
    3. Burnett

    Thats my priority list. Lowe because hes healthy, so hes first. Sheets second because hes going to be cheaper than Burnett (and even lowe). Burnett 3rd because of his injury risk AND wanting large sums of cash.

  2. Josh Friedman December 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    If Lowe wants to go to the Red Sox, let him, the Yankees shouldn’t sign a guy who makes it known he wants to pitch for the Red Sox.

  3. Brian December 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    It’s kill A.J., f%$# Sheets, and marry Lowe.

    But, as a Yankee fan who welcomed Damon but just doesn’t want Lowe, I would prefer either AJ or Sheets, depending on what other f.a.’s are signed.

  4. Bob(The Original) December 5th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    If they sign Sabathia, I’d rather see them sign Sheets as well.

    OF course, there’s the injury issue with him, but I’m guessing he would come cheaper and with a shorter deal. He has more upside than Burnett and Lowe in my opinion.

    I wouldn’t want to see them sign only Sheets though and then have to depend on him as one of your top of the rotation guys.

  5. Dirk from Rockland December 5th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    1 Lowe
    1a Sheets
    3 Burnett= burnout

  6. EdWhitson December 5th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Lowe had a good year in 2008. If you look at his ERA for 2005 – 2007, he was around 3.6 to 3.9 in the NL. Not terrible, but if you tack on 1 run for the league differential, that gets you to a 4.6 to 4.9 in the AL. Plus, expect that number to go up. He would be 36, 37, 38, and 39 over the duration of the contract. Assuming he gets $60m for 4 years, that just feels like wayyyyyyyyy too much money for a guy that will have a high 4 / low 5 ERA and may break down as he gets older (most people) do. For that money, I’d rather have find somebody off the scrap heap to give me a 5 ERA for league minimum. So, I’d pass on Lowe.

  7. Jordan December 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    I think for some teams, Burnett or Sheets would be the better choice. They obviously have greater upside, and in a healthy season, can spark a mid-level team to a playoff run and have the stuff to dominate the playoffs as well.
    However, the Yankees are no mid-level team. Despite what happened last year, they still have one of the best lineups in the league and an offensive rebound is expected. They will also feature a solid bullpen for the second straight year, and, assuming they sign Sabathia and Pettitte, they will have 3 All-Star caliber starters (Wang, C.C., Jobamania) and a 4th trusty veteran.
    They don’t need to depend on the upside of Burnett and Sheets. They need a guy that in all likelihood, will stay healthy, and will give you a good 6 innings on any night. As a number 5 pitcher, nothing more could be asked of him. A guy like Lowe will always get his outs. He will give up a lot of ground balls, and some nights they will get through holes. Overall, though, the guy just won’t get blown out.
    That’s what the Yankees need and that’s what they’ll get.
    And if it fails, we’ve still got Phil Franchise and (don’t hurt me for saying it) IPK.

  8. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    #1 CC

    1. Sheets
    2. Burnett
    3. Perez screw Lowe

  9. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    this is interesting:

    The gridlocked free-agent market is slowly starting to move, and the Yankees are helping push it along. **General Manager Brian Cashman traveled to Washington on Thursday to meet first baseman Mark Teixeira**, and he will meet C.C. Sabathia this weekend before the start of the winter meetings in Las Vegas.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....ref=sports

  10. Dirk from Rockland December 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    Ed- thanks for the link

    Sounds like a great possibility for the Yanks to get a big time pitcher and a big time bat

  11. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Yep, and just to be clear..he wasn’t in Cali yesterday.

  12. Dirk from Rockland December 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Will wait for Perez– though would be a nice pickup sometime after the new year

  13. Dirk from Rockland December 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    He will be in cali soon enough tho

  14. BBB December 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    geez, Pete posting blog updates quickly than I can spew one liners about Lowe and the momentous amount of crack rock he must be puffin’ to decide he’s worth 5/$90.

    anyway, here’s my non-CC priority list:

    1) Remember some guy called Andy Pettitte? Yeah…him.
    2) Sheets
    3) Burnett

    7.5) Lowe

  15. jake December 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Lowe is 35. I don’t understand the willingness to jump at giving him a four year deal for $60mil.
    Can someone explain this?

  16. BBB December 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    “3. Perez screw Lowe”

    Agreed, just not literally, as it would result in an all expenses paid trip to the free clinic, and Cashman will be too busy with Winter Meetings to have any time for that.

    Seriously, what is the fascination with this guy? Especially when he wants 5 years and 90 MILLION!! I know that is Borass inflation, but cmon, the Yanks should run screaming from a request for anything close!

  17. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    What are the objections to Oliver Perez?

  18. vinny-b *Behold the sword of Urlacher* December 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    yes to Sheets at 2 years

    no to Burnett at 5 years

    no to Lowe at any length

  19. Andrew (Official Scorer) December 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    “Lowe is 35. I don’t understand the willingness to jump at giving him a four year deal for $60mil.
    Can someone explain this?”

    Durability throughout his career, especially in comparison to the other 2 key members of the non-CC pitching FA class. Also, Lowe’s arsenal translates better for a “late career pitcher” transformation, since he relies on sink and movement and not pure velocity a la Burnett. That’s why the 4 year deal is less frightening for Lowe, especially when compared to a 5 year guaranteed deal for Burnett–at least, in my opinion.

  20. Thomas December 5th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    I agree with this guy….

    yes to Sheets at 2 years

    no to Burnett at 5 years

    no to Lowe at any length

  21. Bob(The Original) December 5th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    I really don’t get all the hype about Lowe.

    Sure he’s a solid pitcher(sometimes), but he ain’t all he’s been made out to be this offseason.

  22. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    “What are the objections to Oliver Perez?”

    1. He’s a headcase.
    2. He only pitches well against us.
    3. He’s a headcase.

  23. Peter Rabbit December 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    I think Lowe would be a fantastic get for this team. Getting CC + Lowe would be INCREDIBLE for our rotation. Forget Burnett, forget Sheets. Lowe is a very manageable pitcher, with great stuff, and guts. He’s gutsy. He reminds me of Pettitte. Get him.

  24. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Thanks, Laura – :)

  25. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Doreen
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
    What are the objections to Oliver Perez?

    ————————————————————

    Mainly because he either pitches lights out or he pitches like the lights are out and he can’t see the plate.

  26. Mark (Brett is back) December 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I could see Perez’s lines vs the Rays and Sox next year

    4 and 1/3rd 7 hits 6 er 5 walks 2k’s

  27. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption December 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Can we please all remember that Lowe was league average at best his last two years in the American League. Now, after blowing away such power hitting teams as the SF Giants and SD Padres he is going to come back and be the answer? PASS. Give me Burnett or Sheets, and in that order. Especially if somehow 36 year old Lowe thinks he should be pitching for this team until he is in his 40s at 18 million per. CC–AJ–Pettite are the pitchers I’d like to see compliment Wanger and Jobamania.

  28. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    “If Lowe wants to go to the Red Sox, let him, the Yankees shouldn’t sign a guy who makes it known he wants to pitch for the Red Sox.”

    Exactly. They also shouldn’t sign a guy with a bum elbow/arm. If the Yankees sign Sheets to longer than a one year deal, Cash needs to have his head examined.

  29. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    GB7 =

    I thought it was something like that. :)

    There’s just so much information on so many players that I can assimilate. But one thing I know is when you start thinking about which pitchers you’d want, there are precious few who are really, really any good, and fewer who are actually available.

  30. Andrew (Official Scorer) December 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    “What are the objections to Oliver Perez?”

    I would guess it has to do with a) his reputation for taking games off mentally and getting bombed, b) Boras client without a kind of track record to back up the money he will be paid in his deal c) spending entire career so far in the NL, with the doubts about the AL translation of his stuff.

    I think Perez is someone we might hear more about if AJ signs with Atlanta as a lot of the murmurings would indicate. Personally, if you remove AJ from the market, Perez is the most attractive FA starter left. He has pitched in NY (albeit with inconsistent results), he is younger than Lowe and Burnett, his deal would not be as expensive, and he would probably (as a result of his age and his still-ample immaturity on the mound) mature into a better pitcher during the length of his contract and prove more valuable in the long-term. For me signing Lowe for 4 years is really paying for 2 high quality years at the front end by guaranteeing him for all 4. Perez might not be amazing in Year 1, but he might move up in the pecking order of the rotation over the course of his deal.

  31. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    “Mainly because he either pitches lights out or he pitches like the lights are out and he can’t see the plate.”

    You are trying to give *Nick in SF* a run for his money in the “funniest person on the blog” race.

  32. Peter Rabbit December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    “Derek Lowe is looking for $90MM over five years.”

    OK, I don’t like him THAT much. He’s 35. If he was 32, five years is fair.

  33. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    If it comes down to signing any two FAs + Pettitte, I’d go with Sabathia and Teixeira and put Pettitte and Aceves in the 4-5 slots.

  34. BBB December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    I guess in the end we can only hope that the Yanks’ interest in Lowe was just a ploy to drive up his price tag on Boston all along. I’d rather bring back Sir Sid on a minor league deal than give Lowe 5/$90, but if Boston ends up paying even close to that much for him, it can only be described as a win for us!

  35. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    -apparently I accidently figured out how to cross out stuff- I didn’t intend to cross out AJ as I think he is a solid 2 or one of the better 3 pitchers in baseball behind Wang. Hughes honing that third pitch in Scranton because as Michael Scott says “aint no party like a Scranton party.”!

  36. raymagnetic December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    I vote for Ajdebenrek Burshelowe. :)

  37. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    I rather give Gaudin a shot if nontendered than signing Perez where Boras would command lots of $$.

  38. lauren December 5th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    From what I heard Lowe wants 5 year at 90 mils that equals to 18 mils per year. Roy Hallday don’t even make close to that. I think I’ll past. All things being equal Burnett is also seeking a 5 years contract. Yankees should take a look at Oliver Perez and see what is his price point. Sheets for 2 years should be investigated.

  39. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Doreen
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
    GB7 =

    I thought it was something like that.

    There’s just so much information on so many players that I can assimilate. But one thing I know is when you start thinking about which pitchers you’d want, there are precious few who are really, really any good, and fewer who are actually available.

    ———————————————————-

    Compliments of Johhnie Cochran:

    “If he’s a Met, you gotta forget.”

  40. Jeff NJ December 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    I’m going to write something rarely written by anyone here, I don’t know. I have never seen Sheets pitch, Lowe was pretty good back in the day but he seems to have matured in the weak hitting NL West and Burnett always looks outstanding when he faces the Yankees but he has the injury history. Give me CC and Pettitte and I’ll take my chances with Hughes/Aceves or other in the 5th spot.

  41. BBB December 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Sheets – I’d give 2 yrs max
    Burnett – 4 years max, preferably the 4th non guaranteed
    Adam Dunn – 3 years, maybe with 1 option year tacked on

    I would also give Andy 2 years but it seems like he’s fine with 1, just a bit of a difference on money.

  42. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    GB7 -

    Quite in the spirit of the day, I see. :lol:

  43. Ariel December 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    I would pass on both Lowe and Burnett, and sign Sheets. Let Lowe go back to Boston and Burnett to the DL, like his good buddy, Pavano.

  44. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    “*Burress was an ass*,” said a female bartender about his conduct last Saturday.

    “*He was rude and disorderly and didn’t acknowledge anyone unless they were in the VIP section. He didn’t treat anybody with respect*.

    “*I’d rather work with regular customers. Celebrities like Plaxico just cause more problems. He gives the club a bad rep*,” the bartender said.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....142770.htm
    Damn ! I’ve been to LQs and never have I been called an a.. by the women bartenders 8O I got some friends that work there too I should ask if they know more.

  45. CB December 5th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    If Gammons reports that CC is waiting for Tex to sign have any truth to them (and they make logical sense given CC’s priorities) Boras must not be very happy about those reports because that hurts the market for Tex a great deal.

    It gives the yankees an active incentive to not sign Tex.

    Yankees sign tex then that makes it much, much easier for CC to wind up in the angels. They could just take the money allotted for Tex and throw $130M at CC.

    But if Tex signs with the angels then CC winds up in NY almost definitely.

    If Tex signs with Boston – this is a big benefit to CC as the yankees would likely have to poney up even more money to overwhelm any offer the angels make.

  46. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Laura – The Hot Stove is Stone cold!
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
    “Mainly because he either pitches lights out or he pitches like the lights are out and he can’t see the plate.”

    You are trying to give Nick in SF a run for his money in the “funniest person on the blog” race.

    ———————————————————–

    Nah, Laura. I’m not normaly funny…just been doubling up on my medication.

  47. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    “Mainly because he either pitches lights out or he pitches like the lights are out and he can’t see the plate.”

    Priceless GB :lol:

  48. Ariel December 5th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    I would also pursue Peavy and think hard about giving up both Hughes and Austin Jackson. I know everyone here raves abut Ajax and I have not seen him so I really am not in a position to make a judgment, but his numbers, particularly in the AFL (.246, as I recall) are not exactly inspiring.

  49. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Sadly, though…the medicaton does nothing to help me with my typing skills.

  50. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Someone was talking about comparing hitters to pitchers by looking at plate appearances to batters faced.

    I don’t think batters faced works that well because it looks like a pitcher with a higher WHIP has a bigger impact on a team than a better pitcher with a lower WHIP.

    I think plate appearances vs. total outs would make more sense. CC led the league with 253 IP, so that would be 759 outs. Jose Reyes led the league with 763 PA. That’s pretty close. Defense should also be included.

  51. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Sheets at 3 years and no more. This under the assumption that we get CC, which I am not assuming at all.

  52. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Do people like Lowe because he’d be a gritty innings eater?

  53. Ariel December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    GB 7,

    Have you tried Dragon Naturally Speaking?

  54. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    “his numbers, particularly in the AFL (.246, as I recall) are not exactly inspiring.

    ..maybe because he wasn’t playing everyday?

  55. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Doreen
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
    GB7 –
    Quite in the spirit of the day, I see.

    ———————————————————–

    Just thought that it was only proper to leave OJ with his last happy thought.

  56. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    Nick in SF
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
    Do people like Lowe because he’d be a gritty innings eater?

    ———————————————————–

    If he’d gain about 50 pounds, Randy I would love him.

  57. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

    1 – Burnett

    2 – Sheets

    negative infinity – Lowe

  58. Al from BK( Where in the world is Carsten Charles Sabathia?) December 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Order of pitchers preferred:

    1)CC(obviously)
    2)Burnett(not for 5 years though)
    3)Lowe(not for 5 years either)
    4)Sheets(big risk)
    5)Oliver Perez

  59. matthew fraguela December 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Derek Lowe would be a DISASTER pitching again in the AL East- there’s a reason why BOS let him walk after 2004.

    NOW, after 4 years in the NL… Lowe’s HR total have gone up dramatically… SURE, his walks and hits are down, and K total up… BUT, duh… He’s pitching in the NL West (and if his HR totals are up in those parks).

    SO… reality will slap someone in the face next year. Lowe will come to the AL East, he’ll get hit… start nibbling… trying to hit corners… starts walking people… then comes the 3-run bomb.

    YES, Lowe will take the ball 34 times a year and pitch 200 innings… BUT, think Pettitte this year or Moose last year.

    PETER, you claim Yanks wont win with offense, instead they’ll lose 7-5 (as opposed to 3-2). That may be true, but Derek Lowe is not the answer! He’ll pitch to an era in the high four, low five. He’ll give up 5 runs EASILY to BALT, TB, BOS, TOR.

    NOW, swallow that and think what Derek Lowe will look like in 2011, when he’s 38. OUCH!

    SO… AJ BURNETT & BEN SHEETS are more attractive. WHY? Becasue if either are healthy and take the mound, they are MUCH better pitchers with MUCH better stuff. SURE, Lowe is a bulldog and all that… SURE, he’s more likely to stay healthy… BUT, I doubt he’ll get the job done.

    Yanks said they want to get younger and stop bringing NL pitchers to NY. SO, how does a 36 year-old chap who just spent 4 years in the NL West accomplish that?

    Yanks would be paying for what Lowe did in the past… This would be WORSE than Randy Johnson. I don’t care if he can handle NY, is used to pitching in the AL EAST… Bottom line: DEREK LOWE would get hit and hit hard!

    SO, give me Sheets or AJ… Even if I have to overpay. I would rather gamble and lose and have those pitchers on my DL, then stomach watching Derek Lowe struggle to get Boston hitters out, in Fenway, in 2011.

  60. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    “Just thought that it was only proper to leave OJ with his last happy thought.”

    So much for “If the glove doesn’t fit”

  61. Jeff NJ December 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    By the way, Mussina’s hall chances just took a big hit. Maddox announced his retirement. Moose does not hold up well against him. I think he’ll get in eventually, but I don’t think first ballot any more.

  62. NY 23 December 5th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    How Do , A.J. has the Best Stuff of the 3
    He has pitched in the A.L. East
    He’s the One to get for My Money .
    C.C. A.J. Wang Joba Hughes / Kennedy / Aceves 2009

  63. Al from BK( Where in the world is Carsten Charles Sabathia?) December 5th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    “and think hard about giving up both Hughes and Austin Jackson.”

    If were giving up Hughes AND Ajax it has to be for Peavy and Gonzalez. However when is trading your top 2 prospects ever a good idea?

  64. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Ed – patience isn’t a virtue to some people
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
    “his numbers, particularly in the AFL (.246, as I recall) are not exactly inspiring.

    ..maybe because he wasn’t playing everyday?

    ———————————————————–

    The only Yankees that were getting their normal work were the starting pitchers. I think all starters were limited to about 90 pitches and 6 innings, although I noticed that the Japanese pitchers routinely went over 100 pitches. Not sure if that was by prior agreements from te MLB teams or a league rule.

  65. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    “Give me CC and Pettitte and I’ll take my chances with Hughes/Aceves or other in the 5th spot.”

    Gutsy move. My rotation would be: CC, Wang, Joba, Pettite and Hughes (with Aceves in there when we need another starter).

    If CC doesn’t come, insert AJ, but not for 5 years. If no AJ, then Garland. Lowe wants to go to BOS. Good riddance to him, I say.

  66. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
    “Just thought that it was only proper to leave OJ with his last happy thought.”

    So much for “If the glove doesn’t fit”

    ———————————————————-

    Now, Brandon…nobody was talkng about Adam Dunn.

  67. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    “By the way, Mussina’s hall chances just took a big hit. Maddox announced his retirement. Moose does not hold up well against him. I think he’ll get in eventually, but I don’t think first ballot any more.”

    Moose was never a first ballot prospect so Maddox’s announcement has no impact.

  68. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Laura,

    Garland isn’t worth losing a draft pick to the Angels, since he will decline arbitation. He just plain stink.

  69. CB December 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    I don’t think its an easy choice between Burnett and Lowe -

    That said – people here have lost all perspective on Lowe and are grossly over rating how hard the AL East would be for him to transition to.

    First off – when a pitcher goes from the NL to the Yankees you have to take him pitching against the AL east’s unbalanced schedule with a caveat – he never has to face the yankee’s line up.

    The rays, toronto, and O’s don’t exactly have killer line up.

    Second – Lowe is a very good pitcher – he’s not simply an “innings eater.” He’s a very good pitcher who throw’s a lot of innings.

    There’s a big difference.

    If you want a guy who is going to win 15 games and pitch to a 4.0 era as your number 3 starter Lowe is a very safe bet to do that next year.

    Safer bet than Burnett. Way safer bet than Sheets.

  70. clarko December 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    No to Lowe, economy isn’t 4 Burnetts to the wind, I would go for Sheets. More upside, shorter contract, great prospects coming up who shouldn’t be blocked.
    If the economy continues to tank, and if the Yankees are in good financial shape moving forward, I would not be surprised to see other teams dumping salary after the all star break. Out of necessity. A few good players could fall in our lap. We should keep options open to add talent by not going all out now.
    k

  71. YankeeRay December 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    1- AJ
    2- Sheets
    3- Lowe – No Lowe Please , 5yrs 90mm – Not

  72. YankeeRay December 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    1- AJ
    2- Sheets
    3- Lowe – No Lowe Please , 5yrs 90mm – Not

  73. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    “Garland isn’t worth losing a draft pick to the Angels, since he will decline arbitation. He just plain stink.”

    As I mentioned in a previous post, he may be on the road to suckitude, but there’s nothing left after that. Perez is a headcase that I want no part of. Sheets is too risky to take a chance on. I don’t see us with many other options.

  74. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    As of right now, I think Hughes may be better off putting in some more AAA time. Aceves is more mature, he doesn’t rattle and he’s got four-five pitches to find something that works. He’s got the innings and a lot of experience, even though he’s only about 25.

  75. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    “If you want a guy who is going to win 15 games and pitch to a 4.0 era as your number 3 starter Lowe is a very safe bet to do that next year. Safer bet than Burnett. Way safer bet than Sheets.”

    That may be true, but Lowe wants to return to BOS. I don’t want a guy who doesn’t really want to be here, especially if he wants to pitch for our arch rival and may face them several times a season.

  76. Al from BK( Where in the world is Carsten Charles Sabathia?) December 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    I can’t believe people want Jon Garland in our rotation. If CC doesn’t come here we need AJ and Andy then Hughes will have to be the 5th starter. Are you kidding Jon Garland?

  77. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    I agree with everyone saying CC, Wang, Pettitte, Hughes/Aceves, Joba.

    Lowe will be terrible in the AL East. Sheets is injured and injury prone. Burnett is injury prone, will get a 5 year deal.

    All these guys will get big 3-5 year contracts and after next year, they’d be the 5th starter when Hughes and Joba are able to pitch full seasons. It’s a big risk and a waste of money. CC, Tex, and Pettitte, Damon in center, with Swish and Nady at the corners.

  78. Bryan C December 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    Can we just clone CMW?

  79. RayVTNC December 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Speculations are very interesting!

    Here are mine:
    Sign CC, Burnett & O. Perez. Offer Manny a 2 year deal.

    These talks of pitching winning and hitting losing are clearly a classic discussion. The answer is it takes everything to win. Great Pitching aka Koufax/Drysdale can win w/o any hitting. But so can great hitting w/o great pitching aka Red Machine. The factors that play out for champions are not possible to model. Aka, bugs in Cleveland! Bucky Dent! Maz’s HR. Boone’s HR. A closer blowing a save. A great defensive series, like Brooks Robinson’s. All things are skewed somewhat because of timing, defense, coaching, hitting & matchups. I mean the Angels own the Yankees, yet Boston makes the Angels look like High Schoolers. (Makes me wonder why Burnett isn’t at the top of the Angels list with his history vs Red Sox.)

    Additional factors like Manny being unreal at times doesn’t count the same as Brosius having a great series, or an All-Star caliber player. Years ago, Reggie Jackson played with the Angels on an all-star hitting lineup that even played good defense, but had lousy pitching. They came within 1 pitch from Moore of winning.

    Not all great hitters are equal and not all great pitchers are equal. Also, there are clutch of both and they are hard to model as well. Take Reggie Jackson or Frank Robinson or Manny or …

    It isn’t like the Yanks wouldn’t have quality Playoff pitching if they even had to depend on Joba/Wang/Pettite or Hughes. They just have to make the playoffs. They can always trade for a Pitcher during the season as well. (Maybe someone on the Houston Astros team!)

    I value hitting & defense equally with Pitching. Giambi would be a great DH, but he played 1B & was a liability there. Tex would be a real asset. Manny would be a DH and spot LF/RF. With those 2 you could leave CF alone until AJax is ready.

    I am more concerned about Posada than Pitching. LOL! But I still want CC & AJ. I know I can’t have it all!!! LOL! But it would be nice!

    I think Sheets is great as well, but I prefer AJ since he has pitched in AL East & is more of a known factor that way.
    Go Yanks!

  80. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Well played, CB, but do you think Lowe is worth the years/dollars it’s looking like it will take to get him?

  81. Patrick December 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    “Second – Lowe is a very good pitcher – he’s not simply an “innings eater.” He’s a very good pitcher who throw’s a lot of innings. ”

    Good luck convincing this lot of that fact. I’ve been trying to all day with very little success.

    I can’t decide between Burnett and Lowe. Lowe would be a great 3 starter but Burnett is more talented. Tough decision.

  82. bottom line December 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Yeah, let’s sign Lowe, then trade Cano– I bet we could then sign Mark Bellhorn– cheap. Let’s also stick it to Pettite and sign Schilling instead. Or maybe Pedro.

  83. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    “So much for “If the glove doesn’t fit”
    —————————————————————————————
    Now, Brandon…nobody was talkng about Adam Dunn.”

    :lol:

    BTW just read on AP the Eagles are joking on the Giants, not a smart thing.

  84. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Laura -

    Chad Gaudin is rumored to be nontendered, he has the stuff to be a good mid-rotation starter. He’s also an option that Cashman should look at if he’s really nontendered.

  85. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    “As of right now, I think Hughes may be better off putting in some more AAA time.”

    I don’t know, GB. At some point, Hughes needs to get his stuff in gear and contribute. I think they will have a better sense of what to do with him after Spring Training. Maybe he’s a mid season call up. Time will tell.

  86. Vrsce December 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Burnett

    He is the most talented, Lowe is not fit for the AL East and Sheets is a big risk.

  87. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    “If you want a guy who is going to win 15 games and pitch to a 4.0 era as your number 3 starter Lowe is a very safe bet to do that next year. Safer bet than Burnett. Way safer bet than Sheets.”

    Andy Pettitte on a 1 year deal is a safer bet to do that than Lowe on a 3 or 4 year deal.

  88. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption December 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    CB– I agree if you’re looking for somebody to put up a 4.0 and 15 wins Lowe should be looked at, but wouldn’t you agree you can likely get that kind of production from Pettite? Probably for 7-8 million less and a 1 year deal? Maybe i’m wrong and Andy is going to explode next year (if he pitches for the Yankees) but I doubt he can’t give you those type of stats. And since when is 15 wins of 4 ERA ball worth 18 million dollars? Either Lowe wants to be grossly overpaid or he simply isnt worth the price tag he’s put out there.

  89. saucY December 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    1)CC(obviously)
    2)Burnett(not for 5 years though)
    3)Lowe(not for 5 years either)
    4)Sheets(big risk)
    5)Oliver Perez

    i agree with Al from BK

  90. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    It wouldn’t be a great idea, I don’t think, to go 3-5 years on more than one FA. It will block the best of the kids from being promoted. All the pitchers behind Hughes/Aceves would be blocked for at least 3 years. That’s just thinking about the near future. If I was thinking immediately, then maybe I’d go with 2-3 FA pitchers with 3-5 year deals. NYY has so much quality and quantity comng over the next three years….a lot of it. That, of course, is just my opinion.

  91. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    “I can’t believe people want Jon Garland in our rotation. If CC doesn’t come here we need AJ and Andy then Hughes will have to be the 5th starter. Are you kidding Jon Garland?”

    You mean 2005 World Champion pitcher Jon Garland? The jury is out on whether he’s cooked or not. But as I mentioned before, if we miss out on all of those other guys, who does that leave? And don’t think that we can’t miss out on all of these guys. There’s no guarantee that we are going to get any of them.

  92. tom December 5th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    i think many of you are overlooking the man, the myth, the legend….Carl Pavano!

  93. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
    “So much for “If the glove doesn’t fit”
    —————————————————————————————
    Now, Brandon…nobody was talkng about Adam Dunn.”

    BTW just read on AP the Eagles are joking on the Giants, not a smart thing.

    ———————————————————–

    The Iggles had better be careful. Jimmy Rollins doesn’t play for them.

  94. Bronx Jeers December 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    This poll tells me how fitting Vegas is as the place where “The Standoff” officially ends.

    After CC, it’s Slim Pickens for sure.

    No CC and 2009 could very well end up like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

  95. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    I agree with GB7 about blocking pitchers with average/injury prone free agents like Lowe and Burnett. On the other hand, the Yankees offense is going to be pretty weak over the next few years without any major additions. Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Swisher, Posada isn’t scaring anyone, but it would with Teixeira.

  96. Patrick December 5th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    Link on the eagles trash talk?

  97. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    Laura – The Hot Stove is Stone cold!
    December 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
    “As of right now, I think Hughes may be better off putting in some more AAA time.”

    I don’t know, GB. At some point, Hughes needs to get his stuff in gear and contribute. I think they will have a better sense of what to do with him after Spring Training. Maybe he’s a mid season call up. Time will tell.

    ———————————————————–

    Hughes would be needed to spell Chamberlain later in the season, but, he still has a couple of pitches to perfect and he’ll be ready to go full tilt by 2010. Remember, he’s still a baby at 22 years old.

  98. pat December 5th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    The players want AJ and I’m guessing they know better than me so AJ it is. Just not for 5 years.

  99. CB December 5th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Nick,

    Forget the 5 years 90M. That’s just Borass nonsense. Same old same old. Whatever.

    The market for AJ and Lowe has clearly shaken out and its not even remotely close to 5yr/90M.

    Look at it this way – Atlanta is throwing money at AJ on the belief that AJ will be their #1 starter. So for a guy who they are perceiving to be a number one – they are willing to stretch to 4yr/60M with an easy vesting option to total 5yr/75M.

    There’s no chance Lowe gets close to 5/90 if burnett signs for 4/60.

    If the yanks could sign Lowe for 3yr/42-45M I think that would be a very productive signing.

    Let’s put some numbers on it. Lowe projects next year to be 3.3 wins above a pitcher like Aceves could turn out to (if Aceves doesn’t pitch well – let’s assume bad Aceves= replacement player). Burnett projects to be 3.7 wins better.

    For a team like the yankees, each marginal win past say 88-89 wins is worth $5.5M.

    In terms of return on investment Lowe is likely worth a $14-15M contract.

    I know people don’t want to hear this – but players are generally underpaid relative to the massive revenues they skills generate.

    I’d be leery of going 4 years. A 3 year deal would be a good one for the yanks.

    I’m saying all of this assuming CC signs. With CC, Wang and Joba in the rotation they have three guys with plus stuff.

    They just need a guy who is going to throw 200 innings that are 12-18% above average.

    That’s Lowe. Unless he starts “partying” again he’ll be ok. Not great but ok.

    One can argue that over the last 3 years the yankee’s biggest problem has been decimating injuries to their pitching staff.

    Staying healthy is a valuable skill. Coupled with the ability to throw above average innings – that’s a valuable asset.

  100. Blackdragon905 December 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    1. Burnett

    2. Sheets

    3. Lowe -yuck, save the money and get the same production from andy for only 1 year

  101. Patrick December 5th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    CB, would you rather have Burnett for 4/60 or Lowe for 3/45? I really can’t decide.

  102. CB December 5th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    “Andy Pettitte on a 1 year deal is a safer bet to do that than Lowe on a 3 or 4 year deal.”

    This is a completely false choice. Why do people keep bringing this up.

    The yankees need 3 pitchers right now – not two.

    Going into the season with either Aceves or Hughes is a sub-optimal at best.

    I like both and have been one of Hughes’ bigger supporters here.

    But Hughes should be in AAA. Aceves at best should be the long man in the pen.

    So they need 3 arms – not two.

    CC – hopefully.
    Andy – I think he’ll be back.

    That still leaves one spot. That could be Lowe.

    The fact is that they need both Lowe/Burnett/Sheets AND Andy.

    I’m working on the assumption that Andy does come back.

    But they still need Lowe.

  103. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Chris Gocong is funnier than anyone realized. He’s funnier than he realized, too.
    Earlier in the week, the Eagles linebacker was talking to a Comcast SportsNet reporter about the gravity of Sunday’s repeat clash with the New York Giants. There was a grave this-is-a-must-win discussion before things inevitably turned to wide receiver Plaxico Burress. You may have heard that Burress is fond of firearms (as well as wearing sweatpants to nightclubs and maiming himself).
    http://www.philly.com/inquirer.....humor.html
    *Gocong was asked how not having Burress on the field might affect the Giants. Pause. Pensive look. “That’s one less bullet for them to fire,”* Gocong said with an astonishingly straight face.

  104. David December 5th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Why in the world would we give a 4 year deal to a 35 year old pitcher. We dont need another dead weight, high salary pitcher, ie Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina (until this year) etc. Put him in the AL away from Chavez Ravine and his ERA is at least a run higher. As I said yesterday, the best option is Peavy. Younger and signed for less than what Burnett or Lowe will get, plus he is a much better pitcher. I think Sheets would be a decent alternative to Pettitte, but shouldnt be considered otherwise.

  105. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    CB,

    If Lowe is 3.3 wins better than Aceves, how many more wins is Teixeira in the lineup over Gardner with Damon in center and Swisher in left?

  106. Laura - The Hot Stove is Stone cold! December 5th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    “The players want AJ and I’m guessing they know better than me so AJ it is. ”

    The players want AJ so that they don’t have to face him anymore. LOL!

  107. Brandon (TEIX IS NOT WORTH IT, GET CC !)..."Don't trade Robi !" December 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    Later people.

  108. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Thanks for anwering that way, CB, I meant to preface my Lowe question with the assumption that we’d already signed CC.

    Follow-up question: If AJ’s agent comes to Cashman and says “AJ wants to be a Yankee. If you can match Atlanta’s offer, he’ll sign with you.”

    Do you do it? Do you prefer Lowe in the 3-year deal you specified? Again I’m assuming CC is already on board in this scenario.

  109. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    “would you rather have Burnett for 4/60 or Lowe for 3/45? I really can’t decide.”

    It looks like the Atlanta vesting option isn’t going to be that challenging.

    So I don’t think AJ could be had for 3 years.

    Who I’d pick depends on how likely I think signing CC is.

    If I think I can sign CC I’d likely sign Lowe and then lock up Andy.

    Lowe at 3/45 is more likely to stay healthy and provide value on the contract.

    AJ has much better stuff so if someone picked AJ 4/60 I wouldn’t think its a terrible choice. I love AJ’s stuff but I’m leery of him as a pitcher given his track record. I also don’t think he’ll age well at all.

  110. saucY December 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    “That’s one less bullet for them to fire”

    harmless. i laughed.

  111. Blackdragon905 December 5th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    For a sinker ball pitcher, Lowe gives up more homeruns than I thought. Keep in mind this is in LA. In 2005 he gave up 28 homeruns and 2007 he gave up 20 hrs. He never gave up more than 17 with Boston. The fact that his homeruns allowed have gone up in the NL West is not good at all. I can’t picture those numbers in the AL East.

  112. bottom line December 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Truth is if Yanks don’t sign either CC or AJ, Lowe is a total waste. Yanks won’t win without at least one more power arm. Adding Lowe (without AJ or CC) at big bucks for four years is just a waste. Better then to go all in on Tex and at least get a building block for the next six or eight years. And if the Yanks DO get either CC or AJ, Pet can do just as welll as Lowe this year. And I’m really concerned abut what value Lowe would have after this year

  113. We need the big guy!! December 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    I really hope that Cash considers that Lowe’s #’s were in the NL and what that is going to be in the AL again. I expect Lowe to have similiar numbers to what Garlands have been the last couple of years. Not good…But I would rather have Garland for 2 years then 35 year old Lowe for 4 years. Yanks can probably get Garland for pretty cheap. No matter how you look at it after CC there aren’t any really good options available. If the Yanks save money and dont get Lowe or Burnett..I would be ok with getting CC, Tex and Garland…

  114. bru December 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    pete i do agree on you’re pitching article & i know damon & matsui won’t bring a lot back but what about in theory trading damon & matsui to unload salary & signing tex,cc,lowe.

    payroll is around 145 with arbitration,subtract 26 million for damon & matsui = 119 million,add tex at 22 million.cc at 23 million & lowe at 15 million = 179 million total payroll.

    matsui & damon are gone after 09.

    the only problem is unloading them & a leadoff hitter.

  115. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    “If Lowe is 3.3 wins better than Aceves, how many more wins is Teixeira in the lineup over Gardner with Damon in center and Swisher in left?”

    This is what makes having Swisher so valuable. His flexibility.

    Tex would likely be about 3 games better than Swisher at first base. Possibly 2 games better if Swisher rebounds and Tex hits like he did in say 2006.

    So the Tex upgrade over Swisher isn’t enormous.

    Compare that to the CC upgrade over an over his head aceves – CC would be 5.5 wins better.

    What makes the tex situation more interesting however is if you are willing to move Damon to CF.

    Then tex isn’t replacing Swisher so much as he’s replacing Gardner. You also have to account the for losing some of gardner’s defensive value with damon.

    So just ball parking it – I’d guess Tex at first, Swisher to left, and Damon to center would improve the team by 4-5 games. Around that. If Damon was a better defensive player it would be 5-6.

    This is part of the reason why I’m much more enthusiastic about the team going after Tex (if they could do so after CC) than I was a few months ago.

    Signing Tex could help resolve the CF spot – which is once again lining up to be a potential disaster.

  116. Mike Housman December 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Burnett
    Sheets
    Lowe
    unless w/ get CC then switch Sheets and AJ.

    Lowe worries me back in the AL east.

  117. iYankees December 5th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    I don’t think anyone can question Oliver Perez’s stuff, which I’ve seen some people do (there’s a reason Barry Bonds said he was the nastiest lefty he’s ever seen). The bigger issue is actually his control, temperament, and focus on the mound. He could dominate in either league, however. In the end, it’s up to him to put the pieces together.

  118. SJ44 December 5th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going to give Derek Lowe a 5 year deal. Whining about something that isn’t going to happen is a waste of time.

    As Nick and CB have stated, the Yankees offer will be 3 years, with a high AAV. Its up to Lowe whether or not to take it or wait on a longer offer.

    If he takes the Yankee deal, that impacts Pettitte. If Lowe signs with the Yankees for 13-15 million per year, there is not way (IMO) Andy Pettitte is signing a one year deal for 10 million dollars. He would retire before signing that deal.

    The Yankees would have to match Lowe’s AAV to keep Pettitte. At the very least, structure the deal (with incentives and/or milestones) to where Andy could match Lowe’s AAV if he puts together a good season.

    Its probably why there is talk about Sheets right now. Given his injury history, the Yankees could probably sign him to a cheaper deal than Lowe. That would bring Pettitte in at close to the number the Yankees want him at in 2009.

    All of it though depends on what they do with Sabathia. If he spurns the Yankees, all bets are off as to what direction they go in.

  119. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    matthew fraguela – great post

    “The players want AJ and I’m guessing they know better than me so AJ it is. Just not for 5 years.”

    Pat, fie fie! Why ever would you go with the players’ knowledge over the knowledge of the vociferous posters here?

    ;)

  120. iYankees December 5th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    Also, if anyone is interested in reading why the Yankees should sign Mark Teixeira (from a pragmatic standpoint), I’d encourage you to check out the following.

    http://thebronxzoo.wordpress.c.....eira-rant/

  121. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    “If AJ’s agent comes to Cashman and says “AJ wants to be a Yankee. If you can match Atlanta’s offer, he’ll sign with you.””

    Nick,

    I’d have to get AJ’s agent off the vesting option or at least get a more reasonable one. Obviously we haven’t seen the clause – but they’re saying down in Atlanta that it’s not the most difficult clause to get.

    I’d still try to see if i could get Lowe for 3.

    But if what AJ was saying during the season to the yankee players that he wants to be a yankee and 4yr/60 would do it and it still looked like Borass was going to shop Lowe around and engage in his circus – yeah, getting AJ signed has a real value.

    Because then the cost of Lowe includes a huge opportunity cost.

    The team is willing to pay a large opportunity cost as they wait for CC. I wouldn’t do that for Lowe.

    And in the free agent market – once it gets going – as each day passes and supply comes off the market your opportunity cost for waiting increases and increases.

  122. Patrick Bateman December 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Well I didn’t vote in the poll because you didn’t say what the contract terms were.

    If it was:

    Burnett for 5 years
    Lowe for 5 years
    Sheets for 2 years

    I’d take Sheets.

  123. Phil December 5th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    Is Bedard really gonna get non-tendered?

  124. iYankees December 5th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    SJ44, why would the Yankees have to ensure that Pettitte could somehow make the same amount as Derek Lowe? That doesn’t make sense, especially when Lowe’s next contract will be based upon his 2008 season (primarily). Just because they’re the same age doesn’t mean that they have to make the same amount of money and Andy didn’t pitch NEARLY as well as Lowe did, last year. The comparison is flawed, really. Pettitte should be thankful for a $13 million deal (I agree that $10 was way low, but I assume it was a starting point).

  125. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    SJ,

    Same question – say CC is going to sign.

    Lowe 3/45M vs. Burnett 4/60M.

    Which would you pick?

  126. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    CB,

    So what you’re saying is that the Yankees would be better off to sign CC, Tex, and Pettitte than CC, Lowe, and Pettitte, right?

    I think if you factor in that Lowe or whoever else will probably be no more than a 4th or 5th starter after this year, and that Damon, Matsui, and Nady are all free agents next year, signing Tex is a no brainer.

  127. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Are the players that want AJ the same ones that wanted Joba to stay in the pen?

  128. Andrew (Official Scorer) December 5th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    “Is Bedard really gonna get non-tendered?”

    If he does, that’s got to go down as one of the worst trades of all time. It might go down that way regardless, depending on how Adam Jones develops next year in Baltimore, but man…to think people were saying the Mariners were going to win 90 games in ’08.

  129. bru December 5th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    it is amazing hoe everybody jumped on the lowe bandwagon because he keeps getting pumped into their heads.

    i agree,no way you pay a guy 15 million a year who will have at least a 4.5 era.acevez might be better.

    if it was for 10 or 11 million a year maybe.

    i would sign perez before him.if he could ever cut down on his walks he would be great.

    i also don’t know why we didn’t try for dempster.everybody critisizes him but now they wan’t lowe when at least dempsters numbers were better & he would be a little cheaper.

    i’m waiting for people to jump in with the nl al comparison.

    the last time i checked a nl team won the world series.

    i only like cc & perez,maybe a trade.

    if pitching is more important why not trade cano for greinke,cain or another pitcher & sign cc & perez.

  130. Ed - patience isn't a virtue to some people December 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    “Is Bedard really gonna get non-tendered?”

    its possible. The only nontendered starter I would go after is Chad Gaudin, he has the stuff to be a mid-rotation starter.

  131. iYankees December 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    no.27, I agree, signing Teixeira is a no-brainer. I mean, when you think about it, in a year the Yankees will have no one in their OF (that’s money off the books and holes in the OF). Why not move Swisher to a corner now, let Damon play CF, and then sign Tex to play first. Next year, they’d end up spending the same amount of money on Matt Holliday, assuming that he plays well in Oakland. You might as well sign Tex now, keep Swisher in the OF for 2010, call up Austin Jackson and fill out your OF with a cheaper option. Signing Teixeira helps the team, long-term.

  132. riyankeefan777 December 5th, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    1.sheets
    2.lowe
    3.aceves
    4.wright
    5.coke
    6.giese
    7.kennedy ( say what u want about his heart but it comes at a lower price than aj lol)
    8.igawa
    9. myself (while i have no pitching experience whatsoever, i will at least give it my all, and ill come real cheap! i can actually live on the rookie min quite well lol)
    10. anyone else
    11.burnett

  133. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    *DOES ANYONE CARE THAT LOWE IS A HEADCASE WHO FOLDS UNDER PRESSURE???*

    Maybe wanting Lowe speaks to the desperation that Yankee fans are feeling. If you don’t care that he can’t play in pressure-packed situations and has meltdowns when he gets into trouble, well you don’t.

    I don’t believe for a minute that the Yankees would seriously consider Lowe since they definitely would have to remember how he was in Boston. Playing in neverneverland isn’t playing in the Bronx.

    If the Yankees go anywhere near him, I will officially give up on Cashman and will believe he is definitely way in over his head. I have given him the benefit of the doubt to this point.

  134. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    “So what you’re saying is that the Yankees would be better off to sign CC, Tex, and Pettitte than CC, Lowe, and Pettitte, right?”

    No. That’s not what you asked.

    With CC, Tex, Pettite the yankees would have at least one spot in the rotation that could perform at replacement. So you’d have to project/subtract that from the wins the Tex alignment gives.

    With CC, Tex, and Pettite your rotation has no true #3 starter. That’s a big problem.

    CC, Tex, Pettite – the value of that arrangement would be very dependent on how Hughes or Aceves or whoever the third starter is.

    Depends on how you want to spread your risk.

    But a rotation of CC, Wang, Pettite, Joba and Aceves/ Hughes could absolutely blow up. No question. That would negate a huge chunk of the value of signing Tex.

  135. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Nick,

    I thought the players wanted AJ signed so he could be the 8th innings set up guy. Wasn’t that it?

  136. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    And I agree with the poster who admonished that Boston got rid of Lowe for a reason – and it wasn’t because he was partying!

    Ray Sox fan, if you are around, you might want to talk to the people with blinders on about the real Derek Lowe.

  137. bru December 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    i am not so sure that 10 million is to low for pettitte.maybe a little but not way to low.

    pettitte got a ton of money from the yankees.it’s about time he suffers & plays for 10 million a year.

    getting lowe wouldn’t be the end of the world & he might be ok but if we keep pettitte he will not take much less unless he is out of a job.

    the ped issue just bothers me & he isn’t working out with clemmens anymore.

  138. SJ44 December 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    What the players want has little impact. As they say, the devil is in the details. If they want to pass the hat to guarantee AJ’s 5th year (at 16 million) rather than the Yankees, then they have a say.

    The Yankees aren’t giving AJ 5 years. That’s a bad contract and the Yankees have worked hard the past few years to get away from doing those kind of deals. Especially for pitchers with his injury history. Call it the, “Carl Pavano lesson”.

    CB,

    If they sign CC, I’d go for Lowe at 3 years. If Sheets’ medicals are ok, I’d SERIOUSLY consider signing him instead of Lowe. That however, is contingent upon the belief that Hughes is close to being major league ready because Sheets can be scary from an injury perspective and Hughes would be the next guy up in a signing Sheets scenario.

    If they have CC, Lowe fits in their plans better. Shorter term deal, so their young arms aren’t blocked, and he’s a guy that gives you matchup advantages against other teams as the #4 guy in the rotation.

    Just as Joba gives them huge matchup advantages as the #5 guy in the rotation.

    If the Braves are seriously putting a doable 5th year on the table for AJ, the Yankees won’t be able to move him off that deal.

    He would have to leave a year, and 16 million, on the table to sign with the Yankees. Aint’ happenin’.

    Why do the Yankees have to get Pettitte’s number close to Lowe’s? Because, when healthy, he’s a better pitcher.

    You can’t ask a guy to take a 35% paycut and then sign a guy (in roughly in 2008 salary slot) isn’t that much better (if at all) than the player taking the cut.

    You can ask but, you ain’t gonna get it.

  139. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    “If he does, that’s got to go down as one of the worst trades of all time. It might go down that way regardless, depending on how Adam Jones develops next year in Baltimore,”

    Adam Jones is a terrific young player. But he’s no longer even the key to that trade from the Baltimore perspective.

    The thing that could send the Bedard deal into the straosphere of awfulness matched perhaps only by AJ Pierzynski for Nathan/Liriano/ Bonser is Chris Tillman.

    If Chris Tillman becomes what it looks like he was turning into last year in AA – which is a front line starter – the Bedard deal will unquestionably go down as one of the worse trades of the past 40 years.

  140. Fredo Corleone December 5th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “DOES ANYONE CARE THAT LOWE IS A HEADCASE WHO FOLDS UNDER PRESSURE???”

    When was this? Aside from Mo and Jeter, he’s come up bigger in the postseason than any current Yankee.

  141. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    CB,

    “If you want a guy who is going to win 15 games and pitch to a 4.0 era as your number 3 starter Lowe is a very safe bet to do that next year.”

    Over the last 3 years, Pettitte has done that. He had a bad 2nd half, but besides having distractions that affected his workouts and a shoulder injury that he played through, there are a lot of stats that say he was “unlucky”.

    I don’t think that a rotation of CC, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes is any more risky than CC, Wang, Lowe, Joba, and Hughes.

  142. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    “it is amazing hoe everybody jumped on the lowe bandwagon because he keeps getting pumped into their heads.”

    Lemmings?

  143. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    CB, just imagine it, AJ + Joba + Mo, we’d have the best setup/closer combo ever. With that bullben we could bring back Ponson and Rasner and Geise, right?

    To give my own unlearned answer to the question I put to you, I’d go with AJ over Lowe, but I’m a gambler and I like his upside.

  144. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    “I don’t think that a rotation of CC, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes is any more risky than CC, Wang, Lowe, Joba, and Hughes.”

    Ok. I’ll try to be even more clear about this.

    The yankees need 3 pitcher. IMO none of those three pitchers should be phil hughes or aceves.

    It’s not that I don’t like Pettite. I’ve written multiple times that they need him back at a reasonable deal.

    They need BOTH Lowe and Pettite.

    So the rotation would be: CC, Wang, Lowe, Pettite, Joba with Aceves and Hughes in case of injuries.

    That rotation is MUCH less risky than CC, Wang, Pettite, Joba and Hughes.

    There’s not question about it – they need CC, Lowe/Burnett, AND Pettite. They need all three.

    If you want to say well skip Lowe/Burnett and allocate the resources to Tex that’s fine.

    But that has a cost. That cost is risk in the rotation. You’re putting a great deal of the season back on the shoulders of Joba and Hughes. Additionally, you are losing a lot of depth as Hughes becomes your #5 and Aceves #6.

    Say Hughes doesn’t pitch well. Then you move to your #6 – Aceves. Very good chance he can bomb as well.

    Signing Tex = Additional risk in the pitching staff.

    There is no way around that unless the team is willing to go to a $215M budget.

  145. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    I chose none of the above, but I have no alternatives. Given the fish in this particular pond, and if the Yankees are successful at landing CC, and if the terms of contract are favorable, I’d choose Sheets. Probably. Injury history and all. But what I’m kind of hoping for is that Cashman has a trade in his back pocket about which no one has any inkling.

  146. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Doreen, you have to careful trying to get too many fish out of the same pond or mel will go after you!

  147. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    “When was this? Aside from Mo and Jeter, he’s come up bigger in the postseason than any current Yankee.”

    Obviously his miraculous feat in Boston’s postseason during his contract year wasn’t enough for him to keep his job. I look at the rest of his body of work in Boston, especially his final years there. You have to get to the postseason to play in it by the way. Lowe was a headcase who melted under pressure. Don’t take my word for it, talk to Ray the Sox fan. He was saved by the Sux offense in 2003.

    By the way, I don’t take into account anything he has done in LA since you can probably smoke grass on the mound there and have the approval of the fans. I remember watching his games in Boston and I remember seeing him fall apart game after game when things got tough. The guy folds under pressure. The fact that he pulled things together in the postseason of his contract year after posting a 5+ ERA during the season doesn’t give me warm and fuzzy feelings.

  148. Bad Scooter December 5th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Trisha – We get it. You don’t like the Red Sox, any of their former players and maybe even any player that might play for them in the future.

    Derek Lowe in over 83 innings in the postseason has an ERA of 3.33. Not a guy who folds under pressure. He doesn’t miss starts and gives you 200 IP a year. That’s what we’re getting, a guy who takes the ball every fifth day and gives his team a chance to win. We’re not signing him to be our ace or #2 or #3 for that matter. He’ll ancor the backend of our rotation and be a reliable starter.

  149. MDwebGuy December 5th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    I’d like to see CC, Tex, and Sheet(if the deal is right)! I wouldn’t be too interest in Lowe or Burnett.

    Rotation
    CC
    Wang
    Joba
    Sheets
    Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves

  150. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    “With that bullben we could bring back Ponson and Rasner and Geise, right?”

    To think – all of the permutations the thousands of blogs have mulled over – and I dont’ think this option has ever popped up.

    Nick in SF = Cashman’s Right Hand.

    “To give my own unlearned answer to the question I put to you, I’d go with AJ over Lowe, but I’m a gambler and I like his upside.”

    More than reasonable. Going into Fenway with CC, Wang and AJ would be phenomenal.

    I just think in this case if CC signs – dependable is better. But this isn’t a case where its clear cut.

    Though I know in say 6 months people who were all for AJ or Lowe will be screaming how obvious it was that signing AJ or Lowe was so stupid…

    BTW one of the more interesting developments in the land of Lohud has been the revelation that both you and Pat M are gentleman who enjoy their gaming.

    Never knew lady luck was one of your honies…

  151. Glenn December 5th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    1) C.C. (assuming)

    2) Burnett (only he he goes with 4 years plus a team option for a 5th year).

    3. Zack Greinke as part of a player deal with K.C.

    4. Sheets (only if Dr. Andrews gives him an absolute clean bill of health).

    5. Andy is a given. He’ll take less money.

  152. DA December 5th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    Hmmm… You could probably get Burnett AND Lowe AND Sheets for the cost of 1 CC…

    600 innings vs 200 in 2009? No ace – but isn’t that supposed to be Joba or Wang anyway?

  153. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    “Is Bedard going to be non-tendered?” Very unlikely, mentioned in mlbtraderumors yesterday, as a long-shot. Recovering from minor shoulder clean-up surgery.

    “If AJ’s agent comes to Cashman and says “AJ wants to be a Yankee. If you can match Atlanta’s offer, he’ll sign with you.”
    I think, because he wants to be close to Baltimore, that’s a strong possibility.

    Teixeira wants to be on the East Coast and Sabathia on the West coast. To keep Boston from signing Tex, if indeed Sabathia is waiting to see if he signs with Angels, sign Teixeira first, then make it hard for CC to turn down a Yankees offer. Angels still need a hitter, so Manny could very well be on their list. Signing those two plus Pettitte would likely mean the Yankees are done with big ticket signings, which IMO would be fine. Then don’t need to worry about overpaying Lowe, Burnett, Sheets, Perez.

    Rotation:
    Sabathia
    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte
    Hughes/Aceves/Coke/Kennedy

    These top notch free agents, for the GM’s will be like playing Russian roulette.

  154. trisha - CC will opt to be a Yankee. December 5th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    “Trisha – We get it. You don’t like the Red Sox, any of their former players and maybe even any player that might play for them in the future.”

    How trite. Obviously you DON’T get it.

    I don’t want players who are headcases. Lowe is one. I’ve seen too many pitchers fall apart because the Bronx spotlight is too much for them. And those were pitchers who were supposed to be our saviors and hadn’t apparently shown signs of having difficulty with pressure. Whyever would I want to go near one who has been KNOWN to have consistent meltdowns?

  155. andy hawkin's ghost December 5th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    I wouldn’t touch Sheets with a 50 foot poll. With consideration to the economic demands, here is my list:

    1. CC (a MUST have)
    2. Lowe
    3. AJ

    CC gets whatever he wants. The second pitcher needs to be had for three years and an option for a fourth. Limit our risk in case of breakdown. Lowe is not a world beater, but he gives innings and I’d rather have that kind of a guy than Burnett who has questionable durability and frankly a worse attitude problem ( I ask: shouldn’t this.

    If the demands are too high for Lowe and Burnett then LET THEM GO. Yu Darvish will be there next year and the kid is FILTHY. The sox, I suspect, are only trying to drive up the price to reduce our flexibility. Let us not buy just for the sake of buying. Let’s buy smart.

  156. MDwebGuy December 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Lowe wants atleast 90 Million
    Burnett wants atleast 75 Million

    Just Stupidity! You don’t know that either guy is going to last or be any good going forward, one ia old theother gets hurt!

    I think Sheets would be great on the Yanks, he gave it all on the Brewers for a long time and a crap team. I think he would be more reasonalby prices!

    I’d rather have CC & Tex and call it a day. Bring back Andy.

  157. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    “Derek Lowe in over 83 innings in the postseason has an ERA of 3.33. Not a guy who folds under pressure. He doesn’t miss starts and gives you 200 IP a year. That’s what we’re getting, a guy who takes the ball every fifth day and gives his team a chance to win. We’re not signing him to be our ace or #2 or #3 for that matter. He’ll ancor the backend of our rotation and be a reliable starter.”

    For 5 years and 90M he needs to be an ACE! I thought this offseason was supposed to be about getting younger! Lowe wants to go back to Boston. My guess is he’ll sign with the Phillies before he signs with us, unless we stupidly give Boras what he wants.

  158. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    “Yu Darvish will be there next year and the kid is FILTHY. ”

    Watching Yu Darvish pitch in the Olympics this year was completely underwhelming.

    It was a small sample – but he was nowhere even close to as good as advertised and not even remotely filthy.

    Very unimpressed. Could be the very small sample – but if that’s his stuff is just not that great.

  159. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Nick in SF -

    I”m not the one going fishing! The Yankees are looking at 3 fishes in the same pond AT THE SAME TIME!!!

    mel — HELP!!!!

    :lol:

  160. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    “I’d rather have CC & Tex and call it a day. Bring back Andy.”

    If it comes down to Tex signing with Boston, as I said in my post a few minutes ago, I agree with you. Yankees have about 45-50 million budgeted for extra payroll.

  161. CB December 5th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    SJ,

    Thanks for the response before to the Lowe / Burnett question.

    My thinking is pretty much in line with yours. I hope they can get Lowe to 3 years.

    The Sheets idea is an option. But his imaging has to look good. And I’d really try to keep it to a one year deal with a vesting option.

    Hadn’t thought about Pettite being unhappy with Lowe being signed. I could see him viewing Lowe being signed different than say Burnett.

    Unfortunate the team is back depending on free agency for pitching. A guy like CC you almost always go after. But to need a second high price guy is a tough pill to swallow. But it is what it is.

  162. Doc from Back to the Future December 5th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Doc: Cash! If we can get Randy Johnson into the DeLorean and take him back to 1993 and somehow rig the flux capacitor to switch 2008 Randy out and bring 1993 Randy to 2009, you could sign him for 10 years and not have to sign AJ, Sheets, or Lowe!

    Cashman McFly:Great, Doc, but what about Arthur Rhodes?

    Doc: Rhodes? Where we’re going, we don’t need Rhodes.

    Look out! The Libyans! I mean, the Red Sox!

  163. andy hawkin's ghost December 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    True, Darvish was underwhelming in the Olympics. I’ve seen him pitch live and he has the stuff and the mentality to pitch in MLB. Perhaps coaching is the difference. Regardless, the main point that I’m trying to make is that the Yanks can’t buy just to buy. The Lowe and Burnett demands are outrageous. Would we be better just to sign CC and see if Hughes, IPK, Aceves can pan out? I’m inclined to say yes. Once Matsui proves he’s healthy, would be get something in return mid-season? Yanks would most likely have to pay a significant portion of his salary-say 35%. We NEED CC. The rest, I feel, is a wash…

  164. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    “The Sheets idea is an option. But his imaging has to look good. And I’d really try to keep it to a one year deal with a vesting option.”

    CB- I don’t think he’ll sign for that. It will be interesting if he accepts arbitration by the 7th. Concerned about a so called “muscle” tear near his pitching elbow. Also concerned, when I read that detailed article about his bad mechanics.

    I too agree about Lowe. How do you justify giving, almost 36 yo Lowe 17-18 million per year x 3 years and expect Pettitte to sign for what he’s worth-about 10-11 million?

  165. riyankeefan777 December 5th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    “Is Bedard going to be non-tendered?” Very unlikely, mentioned in mlbtraderumors yesterday, as a long-shot. Recovering from minor shoulder clean-up surgery

    did i miss something in this post or somewhere? is bedard a trade possibility? id certainly take him in a trade over lowe or burnett! if i recall we was really good against the al east his last year in baltimore

  166. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    I said I was a gambler re: AJ/Lowe, but the bigger gamble would be to count on Joba to reach his innings limit and to count on quality/quantity innings from Hughes and Aceves.

    Could happen, hope it happens, but when it doesn’t, that’s when you’re dialing 411 in Aruba.

  167. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    So you’re saying that signing Teixeira would give the Yankees more wins than signing Lowe or Burnett, but you still think the Yankees should sign Lowe or Burnett over Teixeira?

  168. David December 5th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Is Randy Wolf getting any mention? He’s 31 & left handed. Compares to Burnett and Penny.

    http://www.baseball-reference......Randy+Wolf

  169. CB December 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    I thought there was no 411 to aruba.

    Only 911.

    Isn’t that sir sydney’s mobile?

    Putting Hughes into the rotation after missing basically 2 years is a huge risk. There’s no question about it.

    Pitching always involves risk. Its just a matter of how you want to distribute it.

  170. Greg Cohen December 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    http://slidingintohome.blogspo.....pdate.html

    Here’s 60 new pics of the new stadium.

  171. MDwebGuy December 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    The bigger question about Tex is where does Jeter go when he’s done at SS? LF or RF? Plus Jeter is gonna want some $$$ soon!

    On The Books
    ARod = $$$$$
    Tex = $$$$$
    CC = $$$$$
    Posada = $$$$
    Cano = $$$$

    Needs to be added at some point
    Jeter = $$$$$
    Wang = $$$$
    Joba = $$$$

    Coming off soon!
    Rivera = $$$$$
    Damon = $$$$$
    Matsui = $$$$$
    Nady = $$$$ unless we resign him

  172. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    Greg-

    Enjoyed the Pictures. If those plus some cash by Cashman can’t entice some free agents, maybe Madonna hanging around the clubhouse will!!!!

  173. Greg Cohen December 5th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    You never know Yankee Trader, whatever works right?

  174. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    The question is – would cash sign pettitte right now for 4 years and over 15 million per? Well, he wouldnt risk the possibility of the yanks shelling out to pettitte a one year 16 mil contract to get two great draft picks. Now, it may shock some people but pettitte is 36 and derek lowe is 35 (almost exactly a year younger.) Pettitte has had a 4.2, 4 and 4.5 era in the AL East pitching over 200 innings every season. Lowe had had a 3.6, 3.2 and 3.8 era in the NL West pitching 200 innings every season which would probably translate to something around or a little bit worse than pettitte’s numbers if his control holds up. Now, what I dont quite understand is why Lowe is worth 16 mil a year for 4 years while pettitte isn’t worth that type of money for 1. It is clear that Lowe is just overhyped and the current top commodity that “everyone wants.” Signing the guy that everyone wants doesnt always work out like Pavano and RJ for example.

    The idea that sheets is more of a risk than burnett is laughable. Just because sheets is currently injured in no way implies that sheets is more injury prone. Look at the numbers – Sheets has had six trips to the dl, only two of which could have possibly been related to each other. Burnett has had 10 trips to the dl, most of which were most definitely related to each other. In Burnett’s 9 and a half year career, he has managed to pitch less inning than sheets who has had an 8 year career. Sheets has pitched 4 seasons with 200 innings in 8 years while Burnett has pitched 3 seasons of 200 innings in 10 years (2 of which were walk years.) I also think sheets has better stuff or at least knows how to use the stuff he has and rarely throws a blowout while AJ either pitches lights out or a blow out – he walks far too many no matter what day he pitches.

    I like that most fans on the blog voted for sheets in the poll. From reading the comments every day, I definitely did not think that this was the majority opinion. Im very glad to hear it however.

  175. Anthony Murillo December 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    Question:

    Did Mark Teixeria personally ask Scott B. to set up a meeting between him and Brian Cashman or is this another ploy by Scott to get another team (like the Angels/Red Sox) to rise their offers? Because if he asked for the meeting, then that could be a pretty big sign, no?

  176. CB December 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    “So you’re saying that signing Teixeira would give the Yankees more wins than signing Lowe or Burnett, but you still think the Yankees should sign Lowe or Burnett over Teixeira?”

    No. Why would I say that.

    Projections are simply that – projections.

    Independent of the projection you have to stratify the risk proposition each possibility entails.

    AJ Burnett projects to win 3.7 games over replacement next year.

    Lowe projects to win 3.3 games over replacement.

    Then the decision seems simple – pick Burnett.

    Well not really. Because for Burnett to win 3.7 games above replacement he has to be healthy enough to pitch.

    That’s the rub. It’s risk.

    If you were positive AJ would be healthy there would be little doubt you go out and sign AJ over Lowe.

    Milton Bradley is a great example. Tons of talent. Bradley was a 4 win player this year. Not that far off Tex.

    Go sign him to play left and shift Damon to CF. Huge upgrade at only a pittance of the cost of Tex or Manny. That would be one of the most cost efficient moves the team could possibly make.

    But no one is rushing out to do that because for Bradley to be a 4 win player again he would have to be healthy enough to play and control his temper enough to stay focused. No guarantee on either so those 4 wins could translate into nada.

    So no – it’s not that it’s so obvious signing Tex provides more wins. Not if the pitching staff melts down.

    Sign Tex and Hughes and Aceves melt down and you don’t make the playoffs. Not when Joba has an innings cap and Andy had a bad shoulder.

    Whether or not you want to sign Tex has really less to do with Tex than how you feel about taking the risk to insert Hughes or Aceves into the rotation alongside Joba and Pettite.

    I don’t like that risk. Because that puts way too many ifs into the rotation. And if those risks don’t pan out the team will have no chance of making the playoffs even with Tex.

  177. MDwebGuy December 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Sheets has only had 2 trips to the DL for arm/shoulder problems. If i remeber right his current elbow problem just needed rest.

  178. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    The bigger question about Tex is where does Jeter go when he’s done at SS?

    The Hall of Fame!

    Where does Kevin Youklis, a terrific fielder go, when Tex signs with them? Teams always find a place for talent. He’ll move to 3rd while Lowell rehabs and then go to LF.

  179. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Pete,

    Does anyone really need to take a business management class to figure out that pitching is more important than hitting and gets teams to the playoffs. A baseball fan can just look at the rays who didn’t have a major offensive producer this season but had consistent starting pitching and a solid pen day in and day out to realize that. The yankees really exemplify this concept as well except last year when we had better pitching than 2007 but absolute no offense. That is a rare case though and a combination of many different things not going the yankees way – posada and cano specifically.

  180. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    MDWEBGUY

    Thats correct – sheets had 2 dl trips which directly involved the upper arm and shoulder.

  181. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Those are the two i said were inter-related in the above post.

  182. MDwebGuy December 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    The 4th/5th starters aren’t usually great on any team.

    I think this rotation would be great next year!

    Sabathia
    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte/Hughes
    Aceves/Coke/Kennedy

    Plus Tex defense and bat is an every day thing, Lowe/Sheets/Burnett go every 5-6th day with hope they don’t hurt their arms!

    Hitters like Tex are a better long term investment! they are usually pretty consistant! Pitcher can be great one or two years and then completely suck! See: Pavano, R. Johnson, J. Wright, J. Contreras, Loaiza, J, Vazquez, K. Brown, etc! I put Lowe, Burnett, and maybe Sheets in that class! Let someone else sign them

  183. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    dave -

    I said of the three, I’d probably prefer Sheets BUT you can’t ignore that an injury is an injury because the bottom line is it prohibits a pitcher from taking the mound. Carl Pavano broke his butt for crying’ out loud! Nowhere near the arm, but still, he missed a lot of time.

    Now, of course I’m not saying that Pavano and Sheets are comparable. But does it really matter why a guy’s not pitching if he’s not pitching? I don’t think you can totally ignore the injury prone-ness of Sheets.

  184. Marky Mark Talks to Mammals December 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    Hi Greg, thanks so much for those images. Very generous of you. I really want to like this place, but I think it is really ugly and disappointing. I am happy about elements of it, and I am sure I will go to games, I root for the team, not for the building. But as someone with an architecture background, I have a hard time with the nostalgia of the facade. I know how everyone loves the look of that old stadium, but the past is the past and there is something theme-ark-ish about reconstructing it.

    I am also so bummed that the concession stands will be filled with corporate food establishments like Johnny Rocket’s. I know, it’s my own opinion, but there would be something nice if every 10 yards did not need to be branded in this place, like in an airport. Yes, I get it——the advertising is essential in making it go.

    I am sure I’ll get used to it.

    Thanks again, Greg. Great photos.

  185. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    “A baseball fan can just look at the rays who didn’t have a major offensive producer this season but had consistent starting pitching and a solid pen day in and day out to realize that.”

    Yes and they had Carlos Pena who was better than Giambi.
    They had Longoria, Crawford, Upton, Navarro, and even Aybar and Hinske who put up some pretty good numbers off the bench.

    I do agree that we need starting pitching to compete for a playoff spot in the toughest division, and it would help to have 2 aces when the playoffs come plus an excellent bullpen, But the Phillies did it with one ace, good offense, and a great bullpen.

  186. mel December 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Doreen,

    Sorry, no help from me. I’ve spoken way too much on the subject. But I will say that CC would be #2 on my list.

  187. Fran December 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Sheets, if healthy, has great stuff and would be my choice for the Yankees staff. But he is injury prone and coming off of an arm injury at the end of last season.
    One advantage to Lowe is that he gives innings and has pitched over 200 innings in each of the last few seasons.

  188. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    mel, with all these Cashman sit-downs and the winter meetings rapidly approaching, please lay your cards on the table!

    CC is your #2, so who is your #1? AJ? Is it your preference that he be signed and CC not? What realistic rotation would you like to see in 2009 and does this include going after Tex with the no-CC savings?

  189. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Hopefully by this time next week things will start to sort out.

    Maybe all we’ll be able to do is trade Matsui, and others for Sanchez, pick up Bedard if nontendered, sign Wolf who was not offered arbitration, and then spend the big $$$$$ on Manny and Teixeira. 3 lefties in the starting rotation to go with Wang, Joba, and Hughes/Aceves.

    Of course I don’t realistically expect this to happen.

  190. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Doreen,

    I agree but it is still true that Burnett has made far more total trip to the DL than Sheets. And the reason i pointed out how they got to the dl is to address this issue of whether the injury was a recurring injury that could crop up again or whether it was some isolated injury in which the affected body part has no relation to prior injuries.

    If you take a close look at both of their injury histories Burnett has had many more recurring injuries that could crop up again in the future and significantly worsen over time. Sheets has had two related injuries to his upper arm/shoulder region.

    Outside of that, he has had a variety of other issues but none of which were related to the shoulder or each other. Therefore, they are far less like to recur in the future. Some of these were an upper ear infection, flexor muscle strain (lower arm) and hamstring. These are very unlikely to be due to anything more than bad luck and/or poor conditioning either of which can change.

    It is not good to simply look at who is injured currently and consider him the greater risk – i looked at every injury both of them have ever had and through multiple other articles have tried to determine who is the greater injury risk.

    To me, it seems that if it is either of them, it is Burnett. And multiple people has said many times that Burnett will not pitch if he doesnt feel up to it aka he doesnt know the difference between soreness, pain and injury. This is shown in the fact that sheets has pitched far more innings than AJ is far less time.

    When sheets is injured, he usually isnt out very long at all and the minimum he has ever pitched in a season is still over 100 innings. I think people are really exaggerating how risky sheets actually is based on the hesistancy in the free agent market. This may be as much do to the fact that he is currently injured as anything else but the mantra always is buy low and sell high.

    This, like the swisher deal would be another great example of buying low. And when you do that, you either succeed or you dont get burned nearly as bad as when you buy high like in the case of AJ (first full season in years) or Lowe.

  191. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Many media outlets seem to be saying that the yanks are getting ready to offer lowe a deal but I havent heard exactly what they are offering? I could only assume its 3 years and lowe is rumored to be looking for 4. Is that right?

  192. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Teixeira wants to be on the East Coast and Sabathia on the West coast. To keep Boston from signing Tex, if indeed Sabathia is waiting to see if he signs with Angels, sign Teixeira first, then make it hard for CC to turn down a Yankees offer. Angels still need a hitter, so Manny could very well be on their list. Signing those two plus Pettitte would likely mean the Yankees are done with big ticket signings, which IMO would be fine. Then don’t need to worry about overpaying Lowe, Burnett, Sheets, Perez.

    Rotation:
    Sabathia
    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte
    Hughes/Aceves/Coke/Kennedy

  193. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Lowe, Boras that is, is rumored to be looking for 5 years and 90 million. Good luck!

  194. mel December 5th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    I…can’t…resist…your…powers…

    At this point, I would go with AJ and Tex.

    Wang and AJ would be my co-aces. (And yes, Wang is an ace)

    Wang
    AJ
    Joba
    Pettitte
    Hughes

    With AAA guys to fill in Aceves, Kennedy, et al.

    Tex gives me consistent offense, great defense, and lineup flexibility. He’s young and he’s athletic.

    CC is great, but he’s not worth that kind of money to me. I know it’s not my money, but I like my Wang good enough.

    If CC comes to the Bronx, I’ll be a fan, but until then he can keep looking for hooks with worms on ‘em. If he doesn’t come, then we’ll take our big, fat juicy worm that’s been sitting there for 4 weeks and counting and divvy it up to some other fish.

    As the wise Confucius once said, there’s plenty of fish in the pond.

  195. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    yankeetrader,

    I did think about the phillies while i was writing that – your right. They had a little of everything. But in the playoffs and in the reg season, Hamels was critical to their success. They def had a strong offense though and bullpen. And I didnt mean the rays had no offense, they just didnt seem to have one huge offensive talent just a lot of good hitters. But the main reason they did that well is their starting rotation IMO.

  196. trade for peavy! December 5th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    cough (JAKE PEAVY)cough

  197. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Mel,

    “As the wise Confucius once said, there’s plenty of fish in the pond.”

    You make some very good points! But Confucius also said, “Not all fish taste the same, some good to eat, some not so good.”

  198. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Dave-

    I agree with you, and that’s the same reason Boston finished ahead of us, and the Angels ran away with the West-their starting pitching was better.

  199. Doreen December 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    dave,

    If they can indeed “buy low” on Sheets (rather than simply “buy Lowe”) it could turn out well. Just want to go in with eyes opened, is all. One would hope that the freakiness of the injuries was just a “bad phase” physically for Sheets, and that his karma would have to turn around.

    But how about this – could seemingly unrelated injuries have to do with adjusting his body mechanics to alleviate arm discomfort or pain? Not all, but some?

  200. Nick in SF December 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    mel, I appreciate your reply and I respect your reasoned opinion. I wasn’t just asking to knock your reply, as you know that my opinion is contrary, it’s just good to get you on the record (again) in a concise and complete manner.

    I think it’s reasonable to not find CC worth the investment. But I think the greatest flaw in your rotation is that it counts too much on Joba and Hughes. CC or no CC, I think Cashman wants to sign 2 FA pitchers plus Pettitte.

  201. dave December 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Mel,

    CC isnt worth a 6 year deal but Burnett is worth a 5 year deal? Seriously?

    I would think maybe you meant if we could get AJ for 4 years but the braves are probably going to be pushed into offering 5. He wont give us any sort of discount so we either have to pay him more than 16 mil per for 4 years which he may not even accept or be forced to give him 5 as well. This is why I dont like Burnett – he is a great pitcher and I would want him on the yanks but definitely not for 5 years guaranteed. He had made 10 dl trips in 10 years – What are the chances he will stay even remotely healthy for 5 years when he is over 30 already.

  202. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    CB,

    The way I look at the rotation is that CC and Wang are as good as it gets at the front of the rotation. Even though Pettitte had a bad year, I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he’ll pitch 200 innings and get 15 wins as a 3 starter. Even with an innings limit, Joba Chamberlain will be able to get almost as many starts as an average 5th starter. Joba is going to produce much better than any other 5th starter in the league, he could be one of the best pitchers in the AL. Because of that, I don’t think having Hughes/Aceves/Coke/Kennedy/anyone else take the 36-40 remaining or so other starts is that big of a risk.

    If there is an injury and the Yankees need to trade for a guy like Byrd or Washburn, they should be able to. Basically, I think CC, Wang, and Pettitte is a solid top 3 and having Joba as a 5th starter is a huge bonus. So I’m looking at it as get a guy who’s going to be a 3rd or 4th starter or get Tex to hit 3rd in a great lineup. It makes even more sense long term if you think Hughes can be a 4th starter in 2010, which I do.

  203. no.27 December 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    “I like my Wang good enough.”

  204. MS December 5th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    How about:

    1-Sabathia
    2-Tex (I know Tex and Sabathia costs too much, but it’s not my money)
    3-Sign Pettette
    4-Perez

    Burnett will get 5 years—we don’t want that. Lowe will get 4 yeasr and maybe 5 years—-we don’t want that. Maybe Sheets if we can get him for $10 mil. for 3 years.

    Rotation
    Sabathia
    Wang
    Joba
    Petitte
    Perez
    Hughes as first call up.

    Lineup
    Damon-LF
    Jeter-SS
    Tex-1b
    Arod-3b
    Cano-2b
    Posada-C
    Nady-RF
    Matsui-DH
    Swisher-CF (Gardner and Melk can fill in as well)

    I know I’m dreaming, but this team would be unstoppable.

  205. Bryan V December 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    How about none of the above?

    I believe the Yankees should sign CC, and see if Sheets will sign for 2 years (maybe even with 3rd and even 4th year options depending on the number of innings pitched in the first 2 guaranteed years).

    AJ: Too much of an injury risk, when the Yankees already have Hughes and Joba…two guys that won’t be able to give the Yankees more than 150 innings. Even though Hughes may start the season in AAA, he’ll still rack up innings. And he’s really not that good, as his ERA is in the high 4s when not facing the Yankees or Red Sox.

    Lowe: Too old for the number of years he wants. Even two years is a bit iffy to me for a guy that hasn’t pitched in the AL (let alone the very tough AL East) for a while. His best asset would be as an innings-eater. And that’s one expensive innings-eater.

    My preference would be to sign CC, then sign Pettitte. Pettitte’s not going to blow anybody away, but he’ll come a lot cheaper than Lowe or Burnett, and he’ll throw 200+ innings like he always has. That would leave a rotation of CC-Wang-Joba-Pettitte-Hughes/Aceves/Giese.

    And why not take a flier on Pryor? They may be able to get him on a Minor League deal. The chances of him contributing at the MLB level may not be huge, but seems like a fine risk for very little.

  206. MS December 5th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Minus:
    Abreau $16 mil
    Giambi $20 mil
    Pavano $10 mil
    Moose $12 mil
    Total: About $58 mil
    I’m not 100% sure these are accurate, but there close.

    Add:
    Sabathia $23 mil
    Tex $20 mil
    Petitte $10 mil
    Perez $10 mil
    Total about $63 mil.

    Only about $5 mil more than last year and much improved.

  207. Frank Solares December 5th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    I have an awesome time in Vegas the best Buffet in Vegas is the one at the Rio.

    No I agree with the Yanks getting pitching but they should go after Oliver Perez, his up side is great. I was against Lowe at first but you have convinced me.

    Sign Oliver, Lowe, and Burnett.

    Rotation I would love to see.

    Wang
    Burnett
    Perez
    Lowe
    The Franchise.

    Then have Joba be the set up man.

  208. MS December 5th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    From last post:
    Actually, we save about $6 mil with Petittes pay cut too.

  209. dave December 5th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Doreen,

    i really have no clue. i am sure it could but is that what happened in sheets case? Certainly not the ear infection but I guess it is possible. It doesnt really sound all that likely though. I know an injury causing pain messes up mechanics and of course, leads to bad at bats and bad habits. But for bad mechanics to cause another injury seems very unlikely but you never know. I know that the injuries were also spread apart which makes it even less likely. I think it is more bad luck and bad conditioning. Maybe even putting too much stress on the body through work outs could be a possibility.

  210. Jerry from Queens December 5th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    1) Burnett
    2) Sheet
    3) Lowe

    Yankees need power arm pitchers with great upside. AJ offers the most in terms of pure stuff. He is coming into his own and has proven to be very successful in AL East.

    Sheet has almost as good stuff as AJ. His back injury scare me. No track record in AL East.

    Lowe is too old and his stuff is marginal at best. On a playoff team, he would be my #4 starter at best.

  211. Josh December 5th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Sheets is the best option if the Yankees can sign him to an incentive-laden contract. Statistically and medically speaking, Burnett and Sheets are identical in my opinion – both have tremendous upside when healthy, the downside being their health, of course. The difference between the two is that Burnett finished the season healthy, Sheets not so much. Nonetheless, the end of last year does not make me any more or less confident in the health of these for 2009 and beyond.

    So, if a 2-year deal for Sheets, with vesting options (or preferably club options) for another 2 years will get the job done, then why not? If the guy’s arm explodes, we lose 2 years. Better that than the 4 years Burnett commands.

    As for Lowe, he is #2 for me. He is a steady #3, and would be a perfect fit to slide between Wang/Joba. But what if we don’t land CC? I’d much rather Sheets as my #2 than Lowe.

  212. dave December 5th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Tex is waiting for more money, CC is waiting for Tex, Lowe is waiting for CC and we are just waiting…

  213. mike December 5th, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Burnett has JOSH BECKETT type stuff !!. . I’d let Giradi treat him like a baby and let him rock and roll !!

    Burnett
    Sheets
    Perez
    Lowe

  214. dave December 5th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    Do the sox actually think meeting with CC will serve as some scare tactic? And the fact that Buster olney reported it adds even more to the fact that this is some sox nation ploy. its so dumb that Its laughable.

  215. dave December 5th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Mike,

    AJ may have josh beckett stuff but he has NEVER had josh beckett numbers. You think burnett could walk 40 in 200 innings or 34 in 174 innings like beckett did in 2007 and 2008? Not on his life.

  216. Drew December 5th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    I am completely baffled by the overwhelming selection of Sheets. He’s a walking DL.

  217. E-Man December 5th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    None of the above.

    All three of them are overrated.
    Sheets and Burnett are injured almost every year.
    Lowe is old and has no business in the AL again.
    Burnett’s best stuff is against one team, The Yankees.. Too bad we don’t face ourselves.

    That being said.. All of the above also since there’s nothing else out there and we have no pitching staff.

  218. matthew fraguela December 5th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    Trisha- Good stuff. I concur…

    As for this post:

    “Derek Lowe in over 83 innings in the postseason has an ERA of 3.33. Not a guy who folds under pressure. He doesn’t miss starts and gives you 200 IP a year. That’s what we’re getting, a guy who takes the ball every fifth day and gives his team a chance to win. We’re not signing him to be our ace or #2 or #3 for that matter. He’ll ancor the backend of our rotation and be a reliable starter.”

    I DO NOT WANT LOWE. Simple as that! I do not give 60-90 million dollars to “back-end” starting pitchers. Isn’t it enough we handed Igawa 40 million?

    It comes down to this:

    Either hand Derke Lowe money for what he did in the past or give money to Oliver Perez for what he might do in the future. I opt for the kid ten years younger and give the money to potential.

    People bash Pettitte for the year he had this year, and Moose for what he did in 2007. THIS WOULD BE BEST CASE SCENARIO if we signed Derek Lowe. He would get hit… hit hard… give up bombs… walk a zillion batters… people would boo and Lowe would unravel.

    As for Lowe’s success in the post season:

    He gave up 10 earned runs to NY in 14 IP in 2003… 4 runs in 5 IP to the Mets in 2006.

    let’s not forget in his last years in the AL… when he was 31 & 32, not 36… He was walking about 70 a year, compared to 100 K; batting avg against about .300, a WHIP of about 1.50 and a era about 5.

    This was in 2003 & 2004. What makes you think TB, BOS, BALT, TOR wouldn’t smack this guy around?

    We have a sinkerball pitcher in Wang, we have another who pitches to contact (possibly) in Pettitte…

    Yanks need guys w/ electric stuff… SO, if CC passes and AJ is too expensive, if you do not want to roll the dice on Sheets… You either sign Oliver Perez or you trade for Chad Billingsly, Matt Cain or Zach Greinke.

    HECK, give be Daniel Cabrera instead.

    PASS on Derek Lowe. The thought of him pitching in Fenway against the Sox in 2001… It makes me cringe. 4-0 BOS in the 3rd inning.

  219. Bret the Hitman December 5th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    Lowe pitches in a pitcher’s park in a pitcher’s league in a pitcher’s division. He’s on the wrong side of 35 and asking for big dollars and many years. I’m tired of guys who depend on the defense to record outs for them. I want guys who can step up in a big game and shut down the opposition. We’ll have enough talent all the way around to get to the playoffs without a ‘reliable innings eater’ like Lowe. The real question is what happens when we get there. Do you want Derek Lowe pitching Game 3 of a series or AJ Burnett? I can’t believe I even have to ask that question.

    Yes the Yankees could have 3 power arms in Wang, CC and Chamberlain but the more power arms you have the more opportunities you have to win big games. Given our talent on offense and on the pitching staff, we can afford to gamble, especially with all these young arms on the way. If Burnett gets injured, so what? Hughes takes his place. If Ben Sheets needs TJS in a year or two? Big deal. Betances and Brackman are on the way.

    If I’m the Yankees I gamble and I gamble hard. We can afford to not be so freakin conservative when investing in pitching. Conservative investments gave us bargains like Carl Pavano. He didn’t have ‘great stuff’ but he was reliable, a real sure-fire mid-rotation guy who would pitch 200 innings for us. Carlapalooza they called it. For what? A guy with a 92 MPH fastball and average sinker pitching for the Florida Marlins?

    I’m sorry. Carl Pavano never had Burnett’s stuff and to compare him to Burnett is cheap. Stupid. Idiotic and cheap.

  220. Bret the Hitman December 5th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    And one more thing. If these young pitchers of our’s get blocked, that’s the best problem a baseball team could hope for. Maybe we could actually trade some for ML ready position players of which we have ZERO

  221. Bret the Hitman December 5th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    matthew fraguela,

    I agree with all of your post. I would also prefer Oliver Perez to Lowe. I’m not really into paying guys for what they’ve done on every single investment. Eventually a GM or a Citigroup tanks. I’d rather get as many young pitchers with ‘electric stuff’ as I can and bank on their futures. When one pans out, you hit the jackpot.

  222. JJNJ December 6th, 2008 at 12:02 am

    ^

    I’m with ya, Drew. I can’t understand how Sheets is in the lead. Lowe is hardly a stellar option, but Sheets truly is “a walking DL”.

  223. 213 Area Code December 6th, 2008 at 3:42 am

    I’ve been opposed to signing Lowe since beginning FA signing period; reading comments concerning the “primacy of good starting pitching/futility of trying to slug away to title” argument is familiar to oldster NYY fans: Many here remember historic sign & pays for past success like Ed Whitson (namesake of the Syndrome Doreen protests so much), D. Gullett, J. McDowell, etc. Nowadays the idea of short (2Yrs being optimal) contracts for pitching is well established due to success like B. Calon (LAA05 Cy Young/BOS08 released), Garland (WS CWS06/nobody here seems to want him09).

    All the ‘science’ about pitching contracts would argue against Lowe & for Pettitte (the fact that #46 is OUR guy not counting at all) being signed. And nearly every post on this thread advocates/prefers rotations including Aceves/Franchise (even IPK) when contrasted w/most other staffs comprised of new acquistion (CC excepted).

    It’s pretty clear that MLB owners are gonna play up the macro-economic situation in a thin FA mkt, & it’s not worth making a payroll mistake this Hot Stove Season.

    Let the kids pitch (Bless Jobamania) & keep in mind that the 4 Rings Crowd got that way w/out FA pitchers (floating Cuban defector Satchel Paige clowns don’t count).

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  225. Lloyd Braun December 6th, 2008 at 8:54 am

    As a Red Sox fan, I hope the yanks sign both Lowe and Burnett. Both pitchers are overrated and will be vastly overpaid.

    Burnett- headcase; will implode in NY or Boston; injury waiting to happen; great stuff, though

    Lowe- sinkerballer…can your D handle it? Benefitted from the AL West lineups last year.

    Teixeira- I believe he will sign in Boston. The ownership needs a new trophy and they have money to burn. They also always seem to deal well with Boras, ie. overpay. Plus, Teixeira might be the last big FA hitter for a few years.

    Manny- signs with yanks after they miss out on CC and Teixeira. I cannot wait to read the NY tabloids on this guy.

    Best of luck this week w/ the meetings.

  226. bodhisattva December 6th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    CB
    December 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
    “….The yankees need 3 pitcher. IMO none of those three pitchers should be phil hughes or aceves.
    It’s not that I don’t like Pettite. I’ve written multiple times that they need him back at a reasonable deal.
    They need BOTH Lowe and Pettite.
    So the rotation would be: CC, Wang, Lowe, Pettite, Joba with Aceves and Hughes in case of injuries.
    That rotation is MUCH less risky than CC, Wang, Pettite, Joba and Hughes.
    There’s not question about it – they need CC, Lowe/Burnett, AND Pettite. They need all three.
    If you want to say well skip Lowe/Burnett and allocate the resources to Tex that’s fine.
    But that has a cost. That cost is risk in the rotation. You’re putting a great deal of the season back on the shoulders of Joba and Hughes. Additionally, you are losing a lot of depth as Hughes becomes your #5 and Aceves #6.
    Say Hughes doesn’t pitch well. Then you move to your #6 – Aceves. Very good chance he can bomb as well.
    Signing Tex = Additional risk in the pitching staff.
    There is no way around that unless the team is willing to go to a $215M budget.
    ———————————————————–
    I would rather take a calculated risk on Hughes being able to handle the 5 or 6 spot – after all, we’re not pencilling him in 1-3 – and begin to move forward with the plan to implement the young pithing, than have Burnett/Low clogging up spots for Hughes and whoever else may show they’re ready to come through the pipeline over the next few years (Betances, Brackman, De La Rosa, should they decide he’s a starter).

    We have some depth beyond Hughes/Aceves (and I disagree: the latter is certainly ready to assume a 5 spot with no major risk, based on what I’ve seen of him, in person and otherwise, which has been substantial).

    Also, I would love to see a healthy Chris Garcia get into that 5/6 mix; if we sign these guys, these system guys with real ability will never see the light of day to make any sort of impact: that is not in keeping with this plan of developing our own pitching and it sends a bad message to these guys trying to work their way up).

    And let’s not forget Kennedy, he’s still a Yankee, healthy, and still in the mix.

    I see nothing wrong with:
    CC
    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte
    Aceves/Hughes/Kennedy/Garcia and possibly, Coke, if they are looking to groom him.

    Certainly, among that group, we could survive admirably.

    I’m more and more against Burnett for this reason (the best scenario for present/future considerations would be Burnett to come here, pitch well for us, go on the DL and allow Hughes, after a AAA tuneup, to step in).

    I have seen the Yankees, far too often, block the path of younger players because they have $$$ invested in FA. (See Torre’s use of bullpen). Time for the paradigm shift to mean something, in more than rhetoric.

  227. TGFizeek December 6th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    I’m not crazy about Lowe but he has been reliable. In a rotation that could include a number of guys with DL stints in their past (Wang, Petitte, Joba, Hughes all last year) some reliability would be a nice compliment.
    That said I’d go Burnette. He CAN pitch at the top of the rotation but we’d be asking for a #2 or 3 from him (Lowe can’t). If he goes on the DL, we’ve proven we can put together a rotation with farmhands (his DL stints seem less career threatening than Sheetz).
    This is a team that needs to win that needs to win in the playoffs (I am aware that we didn’t make it this year but that has more to do with injuries and our lack of pitching depth in my opinion). A CC, Wang, Burnett and/or Joba playoff rotation would be daunting (especially if Petitte is on the bench!)

  228. bodhisattva December 6th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    ^^^I know I don’t need to add that Lowe has been pitching in the NL. In YS, his BB-K ratio is 20-20 lifetime.

    The guy is 36. He thinks he’s 16 when it comes the nightlife. He’s groveling to be a Red Sox.

    Aceves is 26, has 6 years under his belt in the AL. He is extremely cost efficient, has a zillion arm angles and 5 legit pitches. He battles like Orlando Hernandez. He is physically strapping and for anyone who has seen this dude in person, he has serious mound presence. His pitches dance all over the place.

    He is more than ok for the 5 spot.

    No thank you, Derek Lowe.

  229. bodhisattva December 6th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    ^^^Sorry *Six years under his belt in the Mexican League. Obviously, not in the AL.

  230. bodhisattva December 6th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    I would there was an edit button. Beginning to take a page out of GB7′s book ;)

  231. thejobarules December 6th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Derek Lowe is one of two players having 10+ years in the majors who has never gone on the disabled list. The other is Brad Ausmus. The reason Lowe is so durable is his tremendous mechanics.

    Check out his piece on Lowe vs. Burnett. http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=4724

    Lowe over Burnett (11 times on DL) and Sheets (6 stints) in a heartbeat.

  232. Lauren December 6th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    Amazing to me that votes are in favor of the BIGGEST injury risk of the three choices. WOW.

    I chose “None of the above.” I really have no interest in any of them for reasons listed below.

    Sheets: Injuries, Jumping leagues
    Burnett: Injuries, Record against everyone BUT the Yankees
    Lowe: Jumping leagues, Don’t think he still has what it takes for another full season in the AL East.

    They’re basically F’d if they don’t get CC; and they are probably letting Pettitte slip away. I’m having 2003 deja vu with the way they are treating him. If they can get those two, I would let Aceves, Hughes, Kennedy and Coke fight it out for the 5 spot. Aceves has certainly earned it, might I add.

  233. bodhisattva December 6th, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    ^^^We’ll re-sign Pettitte, don’t worry. It really comes down to C.C. If we can bag him, then the Yankees aren’t as likely to do something regrettable, like make a dumb trade for Peavy.

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