Today in The Journal News
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- December
- 5
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Brian Cashman will meet with CC Sabathia to try and sign the lefty before the Winter Meetings. Meanwhile, A.J. Burnett is dancing with the Braves and Cashman met with Scott Boras.
Now the latest news is that the Red Sox want to meet with CC. Of course they do, as that will torture the Yankees. They’ll try and get Sabathia to wait in the hopes that one of the West Coast teams will get up the courage to make him an offer. There is little chance Boston would actually want to sign Sabathia.
Cashman would try the same thing to Theo Epstein if the roles were reversed. It’s what these guys do.
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on Friday, December 5th, 2008 at 11:40 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
bring a cheesecake cash
Red Sox need to back off.
Boston & CC. So laughable. What a ruse.
Seriously? 9 figures? 6 years? Besides, as far as I know CC’s not Japanese.
(Now, that’s just a joke, folks. One which I can make because I’m of Japanese descent. So back off with your PC pitchforks!!!)
“The New York Times reported this morning on its web site that New York Yankees general manager Brian Cashman met with Mark Teixeira in Washington.”
That would explain why they were sketchy yesterday saying the meeting wasn’t in CA or Vegas. DC tips it.
well hopefully something positive comes from cashmans meetings this wknd! whether it be getting cc to sign, or going after a consolation signing like tex! if we end up having to get the latter, i hope we go after sheets (either way) , and manny. rotation cc, wang, sheets pettitte, hughes. or wang, sheets, pettitte, hughes, joba/coke (i prefer joba in set up role for the obvious reasons, keeping him healthy and only needing our starters for 6-7 inings max!
now if we dont land cc how sweet would this line up be as a consolation! damon, jeter, tex, arod, manny, cano,nady, jorge,melky???
It appears we were all (including the fabled NY press) laboring under false assumptions yesterday. Rather than flying to Newport Beach to meet with Scottie yesterday, Tyler Kepner reports that Cash (and Scottie) met with Tex in the Balt area yesterday. http://www.nytimes.com/pages/sports/
Many on this board will be most pleased. Looks like an interest next week or two.
correction
***Looks like an interesting next week or two****
pat,
Am I still banned?
Someone please explain to me Cash’s itinerary?
He met with Teixeira/Boras in DC (YES! Fistpump!)
He’s flying to Cali for a face-to-face with CC.
Then he’s going to Vegas for the meetings.
And CC’s flying to Vegas for the fight (boxing, not Theo/Cashman) and to glad hand the WC teams.
And in the middle of it all is Jason Giambi and his golden thong. That’s a great name for a club, much better than Stiletto and Lace. The Golden Thong.
Jayson Stark’s new post for the Insider ESPN.com article amongst his many notes he said this;
MBLTR.com is reporting it and they say this;
We’re still waiting for another team to come close to the Yankees’ offer for C.C. Sabathia. Stark suggests Sabathia may make up his mind by next week. He also says there’s “increasing buzz about the Yankees’ interest in Ben Sheets.”
————-
I was like, HORRAYYYYYY!!! I hope this is true. That’s exactly what I want! I think signing CC and Sheets would prove to be the best combination of starters the Yankees can hope to snag this off-season. We all agree CC is definitely an ace and Sheets is definitely an ace WHEN HEALTHY. If we’re gonna take a chance on a injury case like Burnett we had might as well sign Sheets instead who has a higher upside and can be had for a shorter deal, but that’s my opinion. I just really hope Stark knows what he’s talking about and more importantly that things fall into place with BOTH Sabathia and Sheets. Like I said before, a rotation of CC, Wang, Sheets, Joba, Hughes/or/Pettitte would be NASTY!!! I’m so excited! Can you tell? LOL…
Get them BOTH signed! The Red Sox are just doing what the have to do to drive the market up for CC. If no one else will do it our biggest rival need to do it, it’s just good business. I just hope we sign SOMEBODY by the end of this next week.
I wonder how seriously they are pursuing Tex. I think he is the kind of player that would fit in perfectly with the Yankees: professional, smart, talented. And the Yankees do need to build a core of players that are entering their prime instead of exiting it (Jeter, Posada, Arod in a few years). Though they do need a horse in that rotation, and if there is a limited number of dollars, CC has got to get them. Swisher will do just fine at 1st, but we need the ace to fill the spot that Clemens or Cone held during our quality years.
“Cashman met with Teixeira at the request of the agent Scott Boras”
At the request of the agent Scott Boras is the key phrase of that story. Market not rounding out ito his liking and he needs Cash to drive up the price?
“Boston & CC. So laughable. What a ruse.
Seriously? 9 figures? 6 years? Besides, as far as I know CC’s not Japanese.”
thats hilarious mel! im the farthest thing from pc myself so that doesnt bother me at all lol
CC+Tex+Pettitte would make for a great off-season. Boston needs to back the F off. CC is ours, you guys already have 3 great pitchers. We have 1 and a half pitchers in our rotation at the moment.
I think Sheets is the best option to pursue as the second FA starter. You are taking a gable, we all know his history. But for a 2 year deal, there could be a lot of upside. Though, they really need CC to anchor this thing. I don’t want to be stuck over-paying for Oliver Perez.
Or overpaying for Derek Lowe, he really isn’t that good. He threw a bunch of 4.00 era years in the decrepit NL West, c’mon. That doesn’t cry out for ~15 mill.
“I wonder how seriously they are pursuing Tex. I think he is the kind of player that would fit in perfectly with the Yankees: professional, smart, talented. And the Yankees do need to build a core of players that are entering their prime instead of exiting it (Jeter, Posada, Arod in a few years). Though they do need a horse in that rotation, and if there is a limited number of dollars, CC has got to get them. Swisher will do just fine at 1st, but we need the ace to fill the spot that Clemens or Cone held during our quality years.”
i agree, we do need an ace on the staff to compliment wang, and swisher will prob be ok at first. but on the other hand, we also could use another big bat to compliment arod
When all is said and done, I still think Tex ends up in Anaheim and CC ends up in NY.
There will be a lot of “drama” and nonsense along the way. However, given the market, team needs, and the economy, this seems to be the most logical fit for each guy.
A lot of fans like to talk about where a player “wants to play”, and how they will, “leave money on the table” in order to go to their preferred destination.
Fact is, very few baseball free agents leave significant money on the table to go “home”.
2-3 million? Perhaps. 10 or more million? No way.
Sheets? That seems to be a move designed to pressure Pettitte to make up his mind. If he’s unwilling to move off 16 million for a season, the Yankees may go in a different direction.
The Red Sox have always hit Sabathia pretty well.
mel
Avery got 6 games, you get 6 minutes. Ban lifted.
As far as the Yankees interest in Tex, you need to add up the salaries.
There is no way the Yankees sign Tex and CC together. Just not happening.
There is a reason why they are trying to reduce payroll. Between debt service payments on the new stadium, the present state of the economy, and the high cost of being over the luxury tax threshold, the Yankees can’t keep giving away 50 million per year to the rest of MLB.
Tex is probably an option if CC doesn’t sign with the Yankees. Together? It doesn’t make any sense for the Yankees, given their current financial situation.
This Tex talk IMO is to let C.C. know that we will dump the money on someone else if he isnt interested. I dont think they will go for both. The 200 billion payroll is history folks. Its one or the other.
Im also excited to see them go after Sheets!! I would choose Sheets over anyone not named C.C..
So who won the Thursday night fight between Pete/Clair/GB7?
haha Yes! My gut feeling was always that Swisher was for the OF and Teixiera was still in play. I didn’t think Cashman was stupid enough to replace 2 .850-.950 OPS guys with Swisher and Gardner. And then when Abreu didn’t get an arb offer I felt this was coming.
Pete always plugs his buddy Kepner’s stuff, he must not want egg on his face right now after lecturing all of us over and over again like school children that it wasn’t in the Yanks plans.
I know it’s far from given but I’m pretty excited Cashman at least has some sense to be in on him.
“(Now, that’s just a joke, folks. One which I can make because I’m of Japanese descent. So back off with your PC pitchforks!!!)”
Japanese thing doesn’t bother nearly as much as the way you put pitchforks in such a bad light.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....ref=sports
as I said yesterday.. Tex’s first choice is the Yankees, it is his childhood dream..
I for one want players that have the pinstripe passion over those that have to “mull it over” and see if it is good for the family…
You don’t have to read between the lines to know that Tex wants to wear pinstripes.
Pat,
Whew. Thought I was looking at 6 years. Speaking of, wouldn’t you agree that OJ looks better in blue than orange?
Fredo,
From the previous thread. You said that Sheets and Peavy weren’t even close when in fact they are close.
Peavy pitches in the largest park in the majors. His road ERA (3.8) is more than a full run higher than his home ERA (2.77).
Their ERA+ is 5 percentage points apart from one another. Their WHIP’s are a hundredth of a percentage point apart from one another.
Nothing in their numbers suggest that Peavy is a demonstrably better pitcher than Sheets. Peavy may be better but it’s a lot closer than you’re making it out to be and thay aren’t far apart at all.
“The Red Sox have always hit Sabathia pretty well.”
Yeah, they’ve done alright with him. CC is 2-4 with a 3.91 ERA in 7 starts against Boston. Oddly, he is 1-1 with a 2.35 in Fenway. Boston must have roughed him up at the Jake.
If I had to choose between Sheets and Peavy, I’d have to choose Peavy. The main thinking is that we know that Peavy’s healthy right now.
“Sheets? That seems to be a move designed to pressure Pettitte to make up his mind. If he’s unwilling to move off 16 million for a season, the Yankees may go in a different direction.”
Do you think the Yankees would settle for CC (best case), Wang, Joba, Pettitte, Hughes? I think relying on Joba and Hughes for two spots in the rotation in a little dicey, considering the innings limit on Joba and Hughes’ development.
Is the Cashman and Teixiera meeting similar to Boston wanting to meet with CC, that is simply to help drive up the price? I hope it means something more. I do think the logjam will start breaking at the winter meetings, if not this weekend. I expect Cashman will have a pretty good sense after meeting with CC if he will truly come. As much as I would like him, I can’t see waiting much longer so he sure he has no other legitimate competitive offer. To do otherwise places our post-season at the mercy of the Angels, Dodgers and Giants.
SJ44
I’ve come to appre4ciate your opinions on most things related to the Yankees, but this time I truly hope you are wrong. Of all the FAs available, Tex seems like the best fit for NY Yankees. He is a polished pro and fills more need than those on the field alone. As a part of the team, he is head and shoulders ahead of what we have and what we can get.
Tex would be a sweet addition. I’d take our chances with a combination of Swisher, Damon and Gardner in CF. I don’t see why the Yankees can’t sign both. I understand it will cost a lot, but the Yankees revenues are shooting up next year. Oh and after 2009 Damon and Matsui (and possible Nady’s) salaries come off the books. The Yankees should not make the same mistake they made with Beltran, $80M coming off the books, so what if they add $60M for CC, Tex and Lowe/Pettitte.
Carrying over from the previous post….
““Ohhh I don’t know, maybe because most pitchers’ ERA’s rise when they go from the NL to the AL?”
In general when pitchers switch leagues you add 0.5 to their ERA. That’s the general way you estimate their AL ERA.
It’s nowhere close to 1.25 runs – that would be a huge outlier.
Lowe has something strong in his favor – hitters get no lift on his ball.
Every year 60-65% of his contact produces ground balls. That’s much higher then even Wang. Only Webb produces more ground balls.
There’s only so much damage ground balls can do. AL East hitters will wack the ball harder – but if its on the ground Lowe isn’t likely to turn into a bad pitcher.
So I think 0.5-0.7 would be a good estimate for Lowe. His ERA shouldn’t be too much higher than 4.0 unless the yankee defense just gets worse and tanks on Lowe.”
CB: Are you tacking on the extra 0.2 (from 0.5-0.7) for defense? I’m not that familiar with LA’s infield defense but it has to be better than the Yankees’. Then there’s also that he’ll be moving to a division where he has to pitch 2/4 of his divisional road games on turf.
I guess what really vexes me is his numbers in Boston. I feel like since the cicrumstances under which he’d be pitching in NY are much more similar to the ones under which he pitched in Boston than in LA, we should be putting more emphasis on his Boston stats in terms of an accurate predictor of how he would do here.
Unless there is something that he has started doing different in LA than he did in Boston, that would make him a different pitcher than he was when he was last in the AL East – is there?
Jeff NJ,
I agree..
But just thing — and I am dreaming here — what if Tex wants to be a yankee so bad he settles for 7/140 with options?
would we sign both CC and Tex then?
It doesn’t mean squat BOS wants to meet with CC.
It doesn’t mean squat if they meet CC.
It doesn’t mean jack if BOS makes an offer.
What does matter is if BOS makes an offer that meets or exceeds NY.
Based on BOS needs, I seriously doubt NY believes for an instance that BOS is serious.
The rest is just business as usual.I doubt NY is trembling over this development, rumor, what have you.
“It doesn’t make any sense for the Yankees, given their current financial situation.”
If you mean the most wealthy team in sports then yes, they are pretty bad off.
“Patrick
December 5th, 2008 at 11:59 am
If Lowe controlled his partying in LA I guarantee you he will be fine in NYC.
“And I don’t address his numbers in LA because there really isnt much to say about them.”
You don’t address his numbers in LA because they don’t support your absurd argument.”
Same reason you don’t address his suckitude in Boston, right? You’re not the only one who can cherry pick stats, dude.
Viva; since when is 7 yrs and 140 an indication of “settling” ?
Tex so called demand of 10 years is a joke, any GM worth their salt will ignore Boras at that level. Get real.
It would be a shock if any GM gives Tex 7 years/140, not a case of Tex settling for 7 years.
“If I had to choose between Sheets and Peavy, I’d have to choose Peavy. The main thinking is that we know that Peavy’s healthy right now.”
while i agree peavy would be better based on health concerns, we are def not getting him.
“Tex would be a sweet addition. I’d take our chances with a combination of Swisher, Damon and Gardner in CF. I don’t see why the Yankees can’t sign both. I understand it will cost a lot, but the Yankees revenues are shooting up next year. Oh and after 2009 Damon and Matsui (and possible Nady’s) salaries come off the books. The Yankees should not make the same mistake they made with Beltran, $80M coming off the books, so what if they add $60M for CC, Tex and Lowe/Pettitte.”
personally i hope we dont lose nady in 09! he is a young and talented corner fielderand i see no reason to let him go
“When all is said and done, I still think Tex ends up in Anaheim and CC ends up in NY.”
Agree.
BBB – also carried over from the previous discussion. This is from one of my posts on Lowe:
“George Santayana would probably also caution that the roadsides are littered with programs with the names of players who were pretty good elsewhere and fell apart under the pressure of the Bronx. Why in the name of all that is sane anyone would advocate for a KNOWN headcase who cracks under pressure is beyond me. Time to wake up and smell the coffee kids! This isn’t desperation time quite yet, where you take almost anything out there because your rotation has already fallen apart! This is the time where you make strong choices about the people who will make up your rotation.
Because someone does okay in the NL is a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny piece of the puzzle, hey?”
Finally, if I would want to listen to Ray the Sox fan about ANYTHING, it would certainly be his take on a Sux player, either present or former. Ray has repeatedly said Lowe is a disaster and teams need to stay far far away from him (paraphrase)
“Is the Cashman and Teixiera meeting similar to Boston wanting to meet with CC, that is simply to help drive up the price?”
I agree. That and some due diligence in case things somehow don’t workout with Sabathia. Yankees won’t sign ‘em both, but they’ll definitely sign one of them, IMO.
Hey, wow, I thought all Boston players were home grown! they’d never ‘ buy ‘ a WS in Holy Chowdahville! Oh, wait, they bought 2. . .. Those morons are dirtier than the Charles River. They’d have to extend their dugout bench to fit CC along with that fat load Ortiz.
I just want to live long enough to see the NYY smack down those drunken self-righteous hypocrites from Boston one more time. I’m too old to score with Elisha Cuthbert on a hat trick, so Yankees crushing the Rat Sux will be just dandy. There is a huge place in my heart for the Rays now for taking out those creeps this past season.
“Are you tacking on the extra 0.2 (from 0.5-0.7) for defense? I’m not that familiar with LA’s infield defense but it has to be better than the Yankees’.”
LA’s infield defense was ok last year. Not great. Remember – Furcal missed basically the whole season last year and they kept moving DeWitt around the infield.
LA’s infield defense basically played league average behind Lowe.
The yankee infield defense isn’t good but how the defense performs behind a pitcher is hard to predict.
The defense year in and out plays very well behind Wang. Last year it was particularly good.
Lowe could have problems but I think he’d be ok.
His numbers from that last year in Boston are a concern – but for what its worth – most people in Boston feel that his poor performance was due to his personal life spiraling out of control and him “partying” too much.
He got things back together in LA and was very good.
If Lowe gets ground balls in the AL East he’ll be ok.
Pedroia batting against Sabathia looks like Ray Mysterio taking on that big dude who calls himself The World’s Strongest Man. Yet Dustin took him deep in the 2007 playoffs. And the last time Lowe was seen in the American League East, he was pitching six innings of one-hit ball in a Game Seven, on two days’ rest. History, I know, but still recent enough to hurt.
They didn’t acquire Swisher to play the OF. They got him to play first base.
If things go horribly wrong (as in NO pitching additions), I suppose Tex might be in play.
CC AND Tex together ain’t happenin’ folks. They would have to trade Arod and Matsui for it to make sense financially.
There are no homes for guys like Matsui in this marketplace. Teams are looking to stay away from 13 million dollar per year healthy guys, let alone guys who are coming off two knee surgeries.
Before some of you get carried away, Arod has a full no trade and isn’t going anywhere.
Notice it was Boras, not Cashman, who requested the meeting on Tex. Why? Because the Yankees have made no overtures in his direction re: Tex.
Too many people are ignoring the marketplace when discussing the Yankees roster.
Today’s grim economic news: 533,000 jobs lost in November. The worst in 34 years.
Its not a stretch to say some of those folks are baseball customers.
Teams are looking at all this data coming down and realizing, anyway you can cut payroll and costs must be in play.
Its why the days of a 200 million dollar payroll are gone.
As far as people’s “dream” destination, lets not get too carried away with that nonsense.
NY is Tex’s “dream” destination? Really?
Ok, let’s put it to the test.
‘Ya think he takes a lesser deal to play in NY? Say, 15 million a year, with escalators, for 5 years, so the Yankees can fit both he and CC in?
If its his “dream” destination, that should be a “no brainer” move, correct?
There is NO CHANCE of that happening.
His “dream” destination will be who pays him the most money.
Doesn’t make him a bad guy in the least. In fact, he’s one of the good guys (as is CC) in the game. It just makes him smart.
You take the best deal out there. Especially in this economy.
Fans get caught up in the little league stuff. The players do not. Its all business, as it should be.
The C.C. offseason reminds me alot of the Beltron one. Everyone had him fitted in pinstripes before the previous season even ended and he ended up elsewhere. The more i think about it the more i think it might be Tex rather than C.C.
Al,
Then you are paying no attention to what’s happening in the country or in the sports world.
The Yankees now have to pay debt service payments on a 1.2 billion dollar stadium. That’s a long term obligation.
20% of the suites aren’t sold. Or, more accurately, they can’t get the money out of the people who made commitments to them because they don’t have the money.
Same goes for season tickets.
With teams reducing payroll, that could mean a spike in payments for the Yankees to MLB if they don’t reduce payroll.
I don’t care how “wealthy” the Yankees are, they can’t keep wasting 50-60 million a year in costs. Especially when revenues projections made a year ago re: 2009, won’t be met.
They aren’t “broke”. Far from it. They also aren’t as flush as they were a year ago at this time.
I’m not even taking into effect the fact that Goldman Sachs has to divest out of the YES Network. Meaning, they have to find a buyer with a “spare” 3 billion to put into a regional TV network. Not an easy task right now.
In addition, financial projections for the next 12-18 months aren’t pretty. In fact, they are dismal throughout sports.
Any team, whether its the Yankees or anybody else, who thinks they can spend their way out of this is crazy.
That’s why the Yankees aren’t crazy. They will spend up to a certain point and that’s it.
Which means, the payroll will be closer to 180 than 200, regardless of who is on the market. It will be less in 2010.
Its the way they have to operate if they want to achieve their long term goals in this financial quagmire that we are in.
“Pinstripe Passion”!!! I like the phrase, Viva.
Let’s not get carried away. As SJ correctly points out, there is no plausible way that both CC and Tex will be wearing pinstripes next year absent a total length capitulation by Tex, and that is not going to happen.
Who really called yesterday’s meeting? Does it really matter? Boras may be getting itchy, tho probably not as to Tex; as to Manny, probably so and with good cause.
It serves the Yankees best interests to have had the meet,to let CC know that it’s getting very close to decision time as to a Pinstripe uniform. He either calls the issue with the Mrs., or the Yankees may have to move on with Tex, since it is either one or the other.
Rather significant (possibly, but who really knows at this time of the year), however, was Brian Sabean’s commments that CC is not in the cards for the Giant’s.
If no CC, AJ or Peavy, there is a good chance Cashman may have to go to Plan C, and that (IMO) would be a shift in primary focus to a very strong offense (both big Bats), as whatever would be left, pitchingwise, certainly would not carry the day. Cashman has to remain somewhat fluid.
There are too many loose pieces to really project what is likely to happen.
Given the financial picture, it would not surprise me if the CC offer is pulled if Cashman is not satisified with CC’s reaction in Vegas.
I would also think that Boras, his hubris notwithstanding, is too smart not to realize that what he wants for his guys may/will not be there. “If” he doesn’t go arb with Manny, he would be very lucky to get much more than what the Dodgers initially offered, if that, (and quite possibly not from the Dodgers). Boras too may have to shift to Plan C,
SG – You are orrect sir. People here are grossly underestimating the impact our failed economy will have on baseball. Buying expensive players now would be akin to having bought a car last year and paying sticker price, when you can now buy any American car below cost. In the news, I am watching debates about whether or not this could be a depression.
While GMs are scared now, next winter will be much worse. A lots of veterans will be forced into retirement. The year after will be very bad as well. I can’t help but think that a team that plays in Detroit, which will lose over 100,000 jobs in the next 2 years, will have a fire sale. The Tigers have the 2nd/3rd highest payroll in MLB. The Cubs already want to dump Soriano, and his meager $18m/yr salary. In the 2009 and 2010 seasons, there will be many expensive players to be had, and the owning team will have to eat part of their salary.
If gasoline can go from $4/gallon to under $2 in 6 weeks, $20m salaries can go to $14 easily. Mid-West teams will be hit especially badly.
It’s too bad we need CC so badly. Andy will sigh for $12-$13. It’s too bad we can’t stay pat this year, and steal Holliday, Crawford and a bunch of talent next year. Who knows, Tex may be back on the market. If I were Cashman, I would talk trades to all the mid-west teams. I believe, next year if not this year, they will happily trade expensive talent for cost controlled kids.
My guess is Tex goes for 7/$133 or 8/$144 at MOST.
Boras can rant all he wants, but GMs are (rightly) scared.
Projected 2008 team salary = $180mm
Yanks salary in ‘07 = $210mm
Off the books = $80mm
Yanks have about $50 mm to spend on FAs:
CC – $23.5mm
Pettitte – $12mm
Swish – $7mm
Marte/Misc. player raises – $5mm
Leaves about $3-5mm for another FA
Only way Yanks get Tex is by trading Damon (can’t do — we need leadoff hitter); Matsui (who will take him); Nady (does he make enough to offset addition of Tex $20mm).
Be assured that Juice Simpson would take a job at less than mimimum wage as a toilet scrubber at any ballpark opposed to Nevada State Prison.
Anybody that thinks the economy won’t have an affect on MLB or sports in general is delusional.
This is now a golden opportunity for the likes of Jesus Montero, Zach McAllister, Delin Betances, Austin Romine, Jario Heredia, Brandon Laird, Damon Sublett, and more to progress themselves for when the economy is righted again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0