Sabathia battle starting to heat up
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- December
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CC Sabathia told Ned Colletti on Sunday night that he wanted to play for the Dodgers. But in the time since then, he asked for another meeting with the Yankees, which was held today. And Colletti has admitted that signing the left-hander is only “a possibility” and that no offer has been made.
All things being equal, it appears Sabathia would prefer to play on the West Coast. That only makes sense since given that he is from there, his family lives there and he has purchased land on which to build a home in Orange County.
But will all things be equal? The Yankees have the resources to make sure that is not the case.
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on Monday, December 8th, 2008 at 7:55 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
PETE,
Wait do I have this right: he himself (not his agent) wanted another meeting with the Yanks today since the one yesterday?
If so, do you know what went down at meeting #2?
but do we want him to play for a team located in a city that he doesn’t want to live in?
Wake me when this is over and CC is being fitted for his new Yankees uniform
Cash (and the rest of us) should probably skim that book “He’s just not that into you”.
“But will all things be equal? The Yankees have the resources to make sure that is not the case.”
This is the single biggest point that so many people seem to be missing. The only public quotes from CC’s representatives, not from the man himself mind you, but his representatives, is that, “all things equal….” he’d prefer to stay on the West Coast. I’ve yet to see a quote from CC himself saying that, and even more so, I’ve yet to see a quote from ANYONE in position to indicate CC’s wishes, that he would go beyond “all things being equal” and take a LESSER offer.
Andrew – yes, we want him
Pete – so i have this straight, he had a meeting with the Yanks on Sunday. Then he bumped into Coletti and made those comments. Then he told the Yanks he wants to speak again?
While on the surface, this could mean he is very interested, could it also mean he is going to tell cashman:
“listen brian, i wont play in NY, its that simple, move on with your offseason without me and give the other teams chances to make bids because right now certain teams arent because they know they cant compete with you”.
Pete,
Any talk about how much Sabathia would leave on the table to go to the West Coast? And would the union then get involved like they did with Alex and Boston 4 years ago?
“but do we want him to play for a team located in a city that he doesn’t want to live in”
yes. Cuz he have the entire off-season to be in California (and the west coast road trips)
Westchester/Rockland county, not a bad place to be in the spring & summer. In fact, the hudson (in Rockland) kinda resembles the West coast.
No to CC! Any guy who can come from a meeting with the Yankee and then beg another GM to take him the same night is NOT Yankee material. This guy is USING us and I’m sick of it leave this bum out in the cold begging for a contract.
Too many new threads…
“I think you’re downplaying the value of an opt-out. IF CC stinks, he maintains the present contract and takes the guaranteed money. If he excels, or if the market continues to climb, he pulls an ARod.”
Brian,
You’re severely overvaluing the opt out clause here.
Let’s put it this way. Say you were his agent and think of it this way.
What is the probability that you exercise the opt out?
Let’s put it at 60% yes/ 40% no – and I think the actual probability of him using the clause is less.
That’s a 40% chance he gets no value what so ever from the clause.
People are generalizing way too much from the ARod opt out clause.
Here’s why.
ARod did not turn any of his value into non-monetary value by getting that opt out written in. That was already by far the largest contract in history – it was a complete outlier in terms of value.
So it wasn’t like ARod was picking between one deal that was $200M + opt out and the other that was $250M in dollars. In Alex’s case the opt out was a brilliant source of surplus value that Boras negotiated into the contract. It was surplus value on top of the record setting monetary value.
CC’s case is entirely different. Here the brewers are offerring $110M + opt out vs. $140M cash.
Do you think that the right to opt out is anywhere remotely close to $30M? No way.
If it was $140M + opt out vs. $140M cash only sure it has real value – then it would be closer to the ARod situation.
But why should CC ever defer any of his present value into potential future dollars? He would be dumb to make that exchange. If he could get both – maximum dollar and opt out then sure he should jump at that.
But sub-maximum value + opt out is not nearly as attractive.
Remember – he’s a pitcher. Projecting their future value is completely different than a position player.
If CC settles for $30M less and takes the opt out to make up value and then injures his arm that opt out becomes worthless – even after opting out he wouldn’t get an AAV of 24M/yr. That would be a disaster for him.
For CC the opt out as proposed by the Brewers would be an example of him externalizing his net value into non-monetary means. That makes little sense for him.
In the three big recent opt out cases – Alex, JD Drew and Burnett – all three players took the maximum guaranteed dollars offerred to them and then on top of that got the opt out written in. In none of those cases did the player trade his net value and externalize it into a future option. They got max money and the opt out.
That’s why those deals worked so well for the players. They had the best of both worlds.
That wouldn’t be the case with CC at all as he would be taking 22% fewer guaranteed dollars. And that’s what matters first and foremost – guaranteed money not future potential dollars.
Taking future potential dollars instead of guaranteed present dollars is almost the opposite way in which economics makes sense.
That would be an awful financial deal for CC.
Now if he could get the yanks to write in an opt out that would be brilliant on his part. But that’s not going to happen.
lol. Jon Gruden just called Jeff Garcia ‘high maintenance’
I’m pretty sure that the beat writers talked to Cash and Girardi AFTER said second meeting.
Given that they still felt positive about signing Sabathia after said meeting, it’s unlikely that he said “Move on without me.”
I hope Cash hears about this meddling with Colletti and publicly pulls the offer so very WC team knows we are out of it. CC and Genske can have fun losing 50 million guaranteed.
cc probably practiced his presentation with his agent before he took off for las vegas the other day. he probably even told him that if he saw any owners, he should say he’d like to play for thier team some day. then a little advice on the wardrobe a quick handshake adjustment and cc’s ready to be sent off to the winter meetings.
i wouldnt read much into a comment made in passing.
Thank goodness it’s not 50 years ago… or CC would try to get the Yankees to move west with the Dodgers and Giants.
if the yanks lose cc then they have to trade for peavy
dude, i miss the old Steinbrenner
“if you dont want to be a YANKEE, the YANKEES dont want you”
simple.
Waaaait, he had his 2nd meeting with Cash AFTER he called McCourt? the plot thickens. I’m thinkin CC is a hustla! Maybe hanging out with LeBron and Jay-Z have had an influence on him
“lol. Jon Gruden just called Jeff Garcia ‘high maintenance’”
ahahahahahaha
“dude, i miss the old Steinbrenner
“if you dont want to be a YANKEE, the YANKEES dont want you”
simple”
and then he trades for Randy Johnson. And passes on Carlos Beltran.
Pete-
The Yankees want two new free agent starters, besides Pettitte back. Any talk of what pitchers or their agents that they met with, besides CC? While waiting on Sabathia, there is no reason not to sign another starter
steingrabber was doing the same thing cash is doing now, trying to convince cc of why he does want to become a yankee. just like george did with catfish and reggie back in the day
“if the yanks lose cc then they have to trade for peavy”
Been there, done that, Peavy not coming to AL!
**JAYS TO MEET WITH PAVANO’S AGENT!**
In their quest to add depth to a depleted starting rotation, the Blue Jays will consider some reclamation projects this winter. Case in point, Toronto plans on meeting with the agent for free-agent Carl Pavano within the next few days, according to the pitcher’s agent, Tom O’Connell.
http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/ar....._agen.html
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LOL hahas, good luck with Pavano.
“trade for peavy! December 8th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
if the yanks lose cc then they have to trade for peavy”
No Peavy
With the Dodgers needing starting pitching badly, I am surprised they are not all in on C C. Jones and Schmidt will be gone in a 1 year and that is 27 million feed up between them. Seems like this should be a slam dunk. team has a need, player wants to play there.
Ha.Yankee want CC pitching,CC wants to be a California pitcher,and the Califonia teams want hitting.It’s a love triangle.
Pete-
Just answered my own question. Ben Sheets, whose agent is Casey Close[Jeter's agent], met with Cashman today also.
Any scuttlebut?
yankee trader
espn is reporting that the yankees will offer burnett 4years $64M
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....tings_2008
no word on when they’ll meet.
I agree with Al…PULL THE OFFER.
Al’s 8:05 post was dead on. Time to pull the offer and pick another road! CC is jerking us around! ENOUGH!
“JAYS TO MEET WITH PAVANO’S AGENT!”
So maybe Pavano called AJ to ask about the Jays instead of the other way around.
Dudes and Dudettes…
Ya need to chill…
It’s been well known for weeks that CC prefers the WC.
It’s been obviously since CC has NOT taken the $140m from the Yankees that he would like other offers.
So… In light of this, have the Dodgers made and offer yet?
NO!!!
They have NOT!!!!
They can NOT afford CC!!!!
Personally, I think whoever gets CC will be dumping him in 2 years, after their attendance is down 40% due to the economy.
I hope we don’t get CC or Tex. In the next 2 years, there will be tons of overpaid players available, for 25% less then this year.
The Cubs are bankrupt. Look at Sori for LF (for $13m/yr) if the Cubs pay $5m/yr of his salary.
Detroit will need to dump salary. They have the second highest payroll in a State that will have the worst economy in the contry. Offer $14m/yr for Cabrera.
Folks…. next year teams will be giving their overpriced players way.
Opt-out offer may not work for brewers. But there’s every reason to think it could swing deal for Yanks– esp. if contract is front-loaded.
Let’s say CC is offered $27 or 28 mill for each of the first two years. If he doesn’t like New York, he splits. And he’s made $15 mill more than he’d probably get anywhere else. And the Yankees maybe get two of his best years and can reinvest. If on the other hand, he realizes the grass is green in Westchester and Jersey too and his wife realizes New Yorkers aren’t that bad, everybody is happy for the next five or six years. The Yankees simply have to address his concerns abut the the city by giving him a way out — and front-loading salary so it’s a really attractive option.
By the way, Yanks can sign CC and Tex and still save $20 million on last year’s payroll. I have them at savings of $69 mill (not even counting Pudge and allowing for the buy-outs of Pavano and Giambi). CC plus Tex should cost $47-50 mill.
Ham Fighters-
Thanks for the report. If it’s true that Burnett’s agent is waiting to see what CC gets, he’ll wait till X-Mas or after.
Burnett should take the Yankees offer and the nine free limo rides to Baltimore for his wife!!
Pull the offer and sign Burnett and Tex, everyone will be happier in the end
i think the cashman meetings with cc are really going to turn the tide in the yankees favor. its one thing to think about the perfect job in the perfect place and all, but sitting across the table from the yankees, who are offering you $140M to come pitch in thier brand new stadium in new york city has to be heady. especially when they make it clear they intend to outbid anybody else to get you. my guess is he leaves las vegas with a very different impression of what pitching in new york could be like.
Ham-
Agree with your last post, plus think of all the endorsement money he’s likely to make if companies like Nike are still around!!
Sign Burnett for 4 yrs 60 mill with a 15 mill 5th yr option and a 5 mill buyout effectively making it a 65 mill guarantee and if its good after 4 yrs we take the 5th.
Reminder to all-
Payroll will be 20-25 million less than last year-somewhere around 180-185 million.
For every dollar the Yankees spend above 162 million, they are hit by a 40% luxury tax.
“All things are not equal”. Were CC to be a Boras client, we would know that in the final analysis the aggregate sum of the dollars is the determining factor. His ego would not permit it to be any other way. With the “back seat, wait and see, paddle along approach of CC” with his agents marching to that beat, there is much more to it.
Perhaps he capitulates to Pinstripes, but what if he doesn’t? It would be absolute arrogance to believe that in the final analysis Yankee dollars will carry the day. Cover your derriere and regain the upper hand with a drop dead date.
Addendum
Unless of course the Yankees are prepared to roll out Plan B and spend the bucks even if CC is ultimately signed; that is, it’s not really “fantasy” to pop for the “big two” as Cashman noted is was a few weeks ago.
As we all well know, nothing stated is really credible during free agency period.
Reminder to all-
Payroll will be 20-25 million less than last year-somewhere around 180-185 million.
For every dollar the Yankees spend above 162 million, they are hit by a 40% luxury tax.
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Another smoke screen to keep competitors off guard. New stadium revenue will cover high payroll. It’s time to strike.
CC requested both meetings with the Yankees. He asked questions on what it was like to live and work in NY.
While I don’t pretend to know what he is going to do, it sure seems as though he has strong enough interest in NY and the Yankees. A 2.5 hour long meeting is a heck of a long time to tell someone you aren’t interested in them.
The rumored statement that CC said he wanted to be Dodger could be just that, rumor and not fact.
How many of the things have we heard this off season that turned out to be untrue? Quite a lot.
You can only believe it when it is announced officially by the team involved.
In the meanwhile, it really sounds like silly childish stuff to keep posting over and over about pulling the offer to CC and that he doesn’t want to play with the Yankees.
Another smoke screen to keep competition at bay. New stadium revenue will cover higher payroll.
Its time to strike.
Yankee Trader,
Nike maybe, but how about Endemann’s and assorted other goodie companies.
2 meetings with cc, one with sheet’s agent and an offer about to be given to burnett, id say the yankees are covering thier derriere pretty well, in the final analysis (2x)
cc sabathia for nathans hot dogs! now thats a believable endorsement!
forget about it
he wants to be a dodger
Walrus,
CC may be asking these questions to drag this out for rather obvious reasons. It seems questons like “what it’s like to live and work in NY” could have been asked (and probably were) at the outset, and didn’t require a meeting to be called for that purpose. As I recall, Jeter stated he had a conversation with CC a few weeks ago and he did inquire along these lines. Seems like a stalling tactic when taken together with the Colletti comments.
ham fighter,
Perhaps his contract could give him the 4th of July off so that he could compete in the contest.
If CC wants to play on the West Coast, he should just say he doesn’t want to be a Yankee. Bad business? Hell yes. But I’d respect the guy more. (If it’s true he wants to be on WC, that is.)
And sorry, Vinny B.–Westchester/Rockland County/The Hudson (in Rockland) may “kinda resemble the West Coast,” but it dang sure isn’t CLOSE to being like it in any way, shape, or form!
Pull the offer from CC, let him lose out on 50 mil.
Sign Sheets, Burnett, and Texeira.
MARK MY WORDS….IF CC GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE, WE WILL GO 0-162 NEXT YEAR! WE’LL NEVER WIN ANOTHER GAME.
RUSSOMCBO78
December 8th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
forget about it
he wants to be a dodger
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Sabathia is an outstanding pitcher. Any avaerage player can be an LA Dogger.
Right now I am convinced that the Yankees are the lead candidate for signing Sabathia. However, Boras is going to dangle him like bait until he gets a very high offer. Expect the Yankees to do just that.