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	<title>Comments on: Update from the suite</title>
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	<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News</description>
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		<title>By: AJW</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606307</link>
		<dc:creator>AJW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606307</guid>
		<description>Manny&#039;s deal was 8 years 160 mill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manny&#8217;s deal was 8 years 160 mill.</p>
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		<title>By: Arial</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606295</link>
		<dc:creator>Arial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606295</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s get Hank over to Vegas and in the room with CC. It would be over one way or the other, and we could move forward. 

None of this, &quot;the meeting went well&quot;, &quot;we&#039;re on the list&quot; (following a mind-blowing pre-emptive offer three weeks before)..... Ask any experienced negotiator what that really means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s get Hank over to Vegas and in the room with CC. It would be over one way or the other, and we could move forward. </p>
<p>None of this, &#8220;the meeting went well&#8221;, &#8220;we&#8217;re on the list&#8221; (following a mind-blowing pre-emptive offer three weeks before)&#8230;.. Ask any experienced negotiator what that really means.</p>
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		<title>By: AJW</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606294</link>
		<dc:creator>AJW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606294</guid>
		<description>Oops my bad. I don&#039;t this it was a 10 year contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops my bad. I don&#8217;t this it was a 10 year contract.</p>
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		<title>By: AJW</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606290</link>
		<dc:creator>AJW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606290</guid>
		<description>Bob Mac this is the same agency that was once fronted by Jeff Moorad. The agent that got Manny that 10 year contract back in the winter of 2000. I say screw Sabathia and go hard after Tex and one of the other two pitchers. I am so sick of this fat man right now I can&#039;t describe. He is using us and I can&#039;t believe the Yankees don&#039;t see that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Mac this is the same agency that was once fronted by Jeff Moorad. The agent that got Manny that 10 year contract back in the winter of 2000. I say screw Sabathia and go hard after Tex and one of the other two pitchers. I am so sick of this fat man right now I can&#8217;t describe. He is using us and I can&#8217;t believe the Yankees don&#8217;t see that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian (Red Sox fan)</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606284</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian (Red Sox fan)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606284</guid>
		<description>CB - let me be clear(er).  The Yankee offer is superior to the Milwaukee offer (what analysis!), and the value of the opt-out, when realized, probably won&#039;t totally close the gap.

But it is a creative way for a small market team to influence a big-ticket player to their organization.  The player can seek greener pastures, and the team can minimze long-term obligations (assuming the opt-out is exercised).

Having said that, the totality of your argument is compelling.  CC would be a fool to turn down the Yankee offer from a monetary perspective.  Sox fans are hoping that the specter of fat joke headlines in the Post and Daily News will be enough to dissuade him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CB &#8211; let me be clear(er).  The Yankee offer is superior to the Milwaukee offer (what analysis!), and the value of the opt-out, when realized, probably won&#8217;t totally close the gap.</p>
<p>But it is a creative way for a small market team to influence a big-ticket player to their organization.  The player can seek greener pastures, and the team can minimze long-term obligations (assuming the opt-out is exercised).</p>
<p>Having said that, the totality of your argument is compelling.  CC would be a fool to turn down the Yankee offer from a monetary perspective.  Sox fans are hoping that the specter of fat joke headlines in the Post and Daily News will be enough to dissuade him.</p>
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		<title>By: Arial</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606277</link>
		<dc:creator>Arial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606277</guid>
		<description>I certainly hope GI Joe told CC, &quot;yes you can have all the candy you want in the clubhouse&quot;. If he didn&#039;t that could be the &quot;sticking &quot; point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly hope GI Joe told CC, &#8220;yes you can have all the candy you want in the clubhouse&#8221;. If he didn&#8217;t that could be the &#8220;sticking &#8221; point.</p>
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		<title>By: BBB</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606268</link>
		<dc:creator>BBB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606268</guid>
		<description>When all is said and done, I really want to believe CC that his interest in the Yanks is legit, but I also believed him when he said he didn&#039;t want these contract negotiations to be dragged out, and we all know how that turned out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When all is said and done, I really want to believe CC that his interest in the Yanks is legit, but I also believed him when he said he didn&#8217;t want these contract negotiations to be dragged out, and we all know how that turned out.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606260</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606260</guid>
		<description>WE MUST MAKE TEX A GOOD OFFER IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!
(said in my best Brandon voice).
This will get CC to move fast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WE MUST MAKE TEX A GOOD OFFER IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!<br />
(said in my best Brandon voice).<br />
This will get CC to move fast.</p>
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		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606257</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606257</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think you’re downplaying the value of an opt-out. IF CC stinks, he maintains the present contract and takes the guaranteed money. If he excels, or if the market continues to climb, he pulls an ARod.&quot;

Brian,

You&#039;re severely overvaluing the opt out clause here.

Let&#039;s put it this way.  Say you were his agent and think of it this way.

What is the probability that you exercise the opt out?

Let&#039;s put it at 60% yes/ 40% no - and I think the actual probability of him using the clause is less.

That&#039;s a 40% chance he gets no value what so ever from the clause.

People are generalizing way too much from the ARod opt out clause.

Here&#039;s why.

ARod did not turn any of his value into non-monetary value by getting that opt out written in.  That was already by far the largest contract in history - it was a complete outlier in terms of value.

So it wasn&#039;t like ARod was picking between one deal that was $200M + opt out and the other that was $250M in dollars.  In Alex&#039;s case the opt out was a brilliant source of surplus value that Boras negotiated into the contract.  It was surplus value on top of the record setting monetary value.

CC&#039;s case is entirely different. Here the brewers are offerring $110M + opt out vs. $140M cash.

Do you think that the right to opt out is anywhere remotely close to $30M?  No way.

If it was $140M + opt out vs. $140M cash only sure it has real value - then it would be closer to the ARod situation.

But why should CC ever defer any of his present value into potential future dollars?  He would be dumb to make that exchange.  If he could get both - maximum dollar and opt out then sure he should jump at that.

But sub-maximum value + opt out is not nearly as attractive.

Remember - he&#039;s a pitcher. Projecting their future value is completely different than a position player.

If CC settles for $30M less and takes the opt out to make up value and then injures his arm that opt out becomes worthless - even after opting out he wouldn&#039;t get an AAV of 24M/yr.  That would be a disaster for him.

For CC the opt out as proposed by the Brewers would be an example of him externalizing his net value into non-monetary means. That makes little sense for him.

In the three big recent opt out cases - Alex, JD Drew and Burnett - all three players took the maximum guaranteed dollars offerred to them and then on top of that got the opt out written in.  In none of those cases did the player trade his net value and externalize it into a future option.  They got max money and the opt out.  

That&#039;s why those deals worked so well for the players. They had the best of both worlds. 

That wouldn&#039;t be the case with CC at all as he would be taking 22% fewer guaranteed dollars. And that&#039;s what matters first and foremost - guaranteed money not future potential dollars.  

Taking future potential dollars instead of guaranteed present dollars is almost the opposite way in which economics makes sense. 

That would be an awful financial deal for CC.

Now if he could get the yanks to write in an opt out that would be brilliant on his part.  But that&#039;s not going to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think you’re downplaying the value of an opt-out. IF CC stinks, he maintains the present contract and takes the guaranteed money. If he excels, or if the market continues to climb, he pulls an ARod.&#8221;</p>
<p>Brian,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re severely overvaluing the opt out clause here.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s put it this way.  Say you were his agent and think of it this way.</p>
<p>What is the probability that you exercise the opt out?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s put it at 60% yes/ 40% no &#8211; and I think the actual probability of him using the clause is less.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a 40% chance he gets no value what so ever from the clause.</p>
<p>People are generalizing way too much from the ARod opt out clause.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s why.</p>
<p>ARod did not turn any of his value into non-monetary value by getting that opt out written in.  That was already by far the largest contract in history &#8211; it was a complete outlier in terms of value.</p>
<p>So it wasn&#8217;t like ARod was picking between one deal that was $200M + opt out and the other that was $250M in dollars.  In Alex&#8217;s case the opt out was a brilliant source of surplus value that Boras negotiated into the contract.  It was surplus value on top of the record setting monetary value.</p>
<p>CC&#8217;s case is entirely different. Here the brewers are offerring $110M + opt out vs. $140M cash.</p>
<p>Do you think that the right to opt out is anywhere remotely close to $30M?  No way.</p>
<p>If it was $140M + opt out vs. $140M cash only sure it has real value &#8211; then it would be closer to the ARod situation.</p>
<p>But why should CC ever defer any of his present value into potential future dollars?  He would be dumb to make that exchange.  If he could get both &#8211; maximum dollar and opt out then sure he should jump at that.</p>
<p>But sub-maximum value + opt out is not nearly as attractive.</p>
<p>Remember &#8211; he&#8217;s a pitcher. Projecting their future value is completely different than a position player.</p>
<p>If CC settles for $30M less and takes the opt out to make up value and then injures his arm that opt out becomes worthless &#8211; even after opting out he wouldn&#8217;t get an AAV of 24M/yr.  That would be a disaster for him.</p>
<p>For CC the opt out as proposed by the Brewers would be an example of him externalizing his net value into non-monetary means. That makes little sense for him.</p>
<p>In the three big recent opt out cases &#8211; Alex, JD Drew and Burnett &#8211; all three players took the maximum guaranteed dollars offerred to them and then on top of that got the opt out written in.  In none of those cases did the player trade his net value and externalize it into a future option.  They got max money and the opt out.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why those deals worked so well for the players. They had the best of both worlds. </p>
<p>That wouldn&#8217;t be the case with CC at all as he would be taking 22% fewer guaranteed dollars. And that&#8217;s what matters first and foremost &#8211; guaranteed money not future potential dollars.  </p>
<p>Taking future potential dollars instead of guaranteed present dollars is almost the opposite way in which economics makes sense. </p>
<p>That would be an awful financial deal for CC.</p>
<p>Now if he could get the yanks to write in an opt out that would be brilliant on his part.  But that&#8217;s not going to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff NJ</title>
		<link>http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/comment-page-3/#comment-606253</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff NJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/08/update-from-the-suite/#comment-606253</guid>
		<description>CC is as good as committed.  No way he will turn down the money.  I for one, welcome our new our new 300 lb pitching overlord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC is as good as committed.  No way he will turn down the money.  I for one, welcome our new our new 300 lb pitching overlord.</p>
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