Yankees will still have a first-round pick
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2008 
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By signing CC Sabathia, the Yankees will lose their first-round pick in the draft to the Brewers.
However … the compensation picks they received for not signing Gerrit Cole (first round) and Scott Bittle (second round) are protected picks. So no matter what happens, the Yankees will have a pick in each of the first two rounds in June.
Meanwhile, we’re meeting with Brian Cashman in a few minutes. Check back later.
i figured that was the case
This deal was have to been made but CC really squeesed the yanks out! Seeing what K-Rod got from the mets and the economic crisis! I hope this works out good! But the opt out Really Sucks!!!!! We will regret it. Promise!
I just heard the news about sabathia – just got home. Awesome Job and kudos to cashman for pushing hard and sticking with it. After CC left vegas, with a san fran meeting coming up, I was getting very worried that this was going to drag out until january and cc would accept a deal to the angels or giants. But I guess in the end, it was a PROCESS and we got our guy. Thank god because besides that fact that we desperately need him – CC taking a lesser offer would have just been downright embarrassing to the yankees.
I hope if Lowe is signed, that he is more of a replacement for pettitte than a replacement for sheets/Burnnett. Id prefer CC, Wang, Sheets/Burnett, Lowe, Joba to CC, Wang, Lowe, Pettitte, Joba. I would take Lowe or Pettitte – im really undecided on that one because Lowe would probably be better but pettitte would be much much cheaper and for only one year. I hope we sign two of Sheets/Burnett/Lowe/Pettitte in the next week or so and cash focuses the rest of his efforts on trying to upgrade the offense because that will take far more creativity and not just throwing money on FAs.
I heard yesterday if we sign 3 of these pitchers (lets say CC, Sheets, Pettitte) – we are not allowed to go after Tex or Manny even though we still may have the money to do it because sheets and pettitte should be around 25 mil for the both of them. Can anybody confirm that this is in fact true?
If that is the case – we really only have 2 options. We could sign somebody like Dunn who was never offered arbitration or we could go the trade route. I am not very enthusiastic about Ankiel or Cameron. I think we need someone with a solid obp and some power to essentially replace giambi/abreus bats in the lineup at a younger age and cheaper price. Swisher was a nice pickup to see if he can turn it around but like cano, matsui and posada, we are banking on a comeback year. We need somebody proven and solid with the bat who can play first base or the outfielder preferably centerfield.
Brett Gardner for Rick Ankiel. make it happen cashman.
He was getting the opt out no matter where he signed.
Would you rather lose the guy by not giving him the opt out?
Its a non-issue.
I got flamed before for saying this, but I think that Andy should get more consideration than Sheets due to his history as a Yankee. Yes, I know this a business, but there is something to be said for loyalty, history and prior performance. I’m not saying that Andy should get 16mil. By the same token, I think that 10mil is an insult. Give the guy 12 or 13mil and call it a day.
Thanks for the update Peter regarding the protected draft picks.
Go with Gardner / Cabrera for the 9th spot in the lineup to give us some needed defense in CF. We’re talking about the 9th spot in the lineup!
SJ44 – do we not lose another pick if we sign Sheets?
That might be incentive enough right there.
Given that with CC the Yanks now have two starters capable of winning 20 games (Wang being the other), and possibly a third in Joba, wouldn’t it make more sense to roll the dice on a short contract for Ben Sheets over Lowe? Sheets is arguably a far better pitcher than Lowe is, and with all the young talent that just needs some more time in the minors, wouldn’t the Yanks be better off with Sheets for two years, than Lowe for four at the end of his career? A rotation of CC, Sheets, Wang, Pettite, and Joba would be sick, and presumably after the two years of Sheets one of the thousand promising pitching prospects the Yanks have should at least be ready to fill the fifth spot in the rotation. In the mean time you have four guys with the stuff to win you 20 games.
What a bunch of crepehangers around here.
First it’s “Give CC a blank Check!”
Then it’s “6 years is to long”
Now it’s “the opt out sucks!”
Since this is the most curent thread, I jus wnted to makwe you Guys aware of some intel / insight on the “process” of the CC talks that were just posted by Joel Sherman of the NY Post.
What I find interesting is that CC wanted to know how A-Rod and Jeter got along!?!
Here’s the link:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....143549.htm
The opt out rocks.
Laura,
Loyalty works both ways. Andy hung the Yankees out to dry last year with not informing them about the HGH stuff.
The Yankees sucked it up and stood by him.
10 million isn’t an insult. In fact, its amazing the Yankees even want him back, given what went down last year.
Can the two sides work things out? They can if Pettitte and his agents are reasonable. If not, bye bye.
The Yankees don’t owe Pettitte as much as he owes them at this point.
Please don’t give any props for cashman he didn’t do anything magical! He just gets permission to spend another 21 million on the deal and he does ! mickey mouse could of done this deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heyman-
Yankees co-owner Hank Steinbrenner is said by people close to him to want Manny Ramirez in pinstripes. Unlike his father, who dreaded dreadlocks, Steinbrenner the junior is said by a Yankees person “not to give a (hoot) about his hair.”
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ound-pick/
I have been so anti-Manny for so long. But the look on Youk or Papelbons face after Manny hits a bomb might make it worthwhile. And if you think Ortiz, Manny was good what would Arod, Manny be like. But what the heck would we do with Matsui?
Pete,
From all reports, it would seem that the market has fallen apart on manny – He isnt really getting much interest at all right now and may have to take a two or three year deal. I think if we were economical with the next two pitching signings meaning sheets and pettitte for 25 million next year combined, we could afford to add another bat via free agency. Im not saying Tex but definitely another solid bat with power and high obp.
Does anybody have a link that shows no matter who Sabathia signed with, there was going to be an opt-out clause? I can’t find one, but knew I saw it somewhere.
Cro
mel and Buster Olney reported that this morning. As I said to her, why ask Cash when he could ask a player who lives with it everyday?
Sorry here is the link
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....ref=fromSI
Would anyone here not have signed CC for a 3 year, $69 million deal? If he leaves after 3 years, so be it. We’ll hopefully have gotten 3 fantastic years out of him and if all goes well have pitching developed to replace him.
I go do some work and there is a plethora of posts from Pete. Glad to see his is awake!
Glad that CC is here. Bring me Sheets!
Peter,
“The only want I see the Yankees getting involved with Manny Ramirez is if the market falls apart for him and he has to scramble for cover.”
___________
This is precisely what is happening. There is no market for Manny other than the Bronx. The Dodgers have essentially walked away with the clamor in LA dissipating to zilch as I write. Boras is doing what he can to create the impression of a market when it is obvious that there is none. The “droppings” from Yankeedom over the past month or so suggest precisely what you now state….remember the phrase fowing from Tampa…”not now, maybe later”. “Later” will be after the pitching needs are finalized.
“10 million isn’t an insult. In fact, its amazing the Yankees even want him back, given what went down last year.”
Why not? I think that Andy still has the goods. I believe that he pitched the last half of the season injured and that’s why his results stunk. Andy is a gamer and one of the vestiges of the old dynasty. I’m a fan so I have a soft spot for the players that ownership doesn’t. Even so, from a business standpoint, it still makes more sense to me to go with what you know versus an injured pitcher from the offensively weaker NL. Do people really think that Sheets will be as good in the AL as he was in the NL? If he’s healthy, I don’t think he’s stinking up the place, but I’d be surprised if his ERA doesn’t take a hit.
Yes, let’s not give Cashman any credit for doing this deal.
He didn’t do “anything”.
Clueless is no way to go through life.
AWESOME!! Thanks for clarifying Peter!!!
I hate to say it, but if we do pursue a bat of any kind, Manny Ramirez might be the best route with consideration to length and price.
His head is another story and the single reason I find myself opposing the idea.
BJK it’s that people think he goes ICU-ANO and haunts us, people if CC hates it here he will bounce w/ his family to an NL Cali team, if he does he stays here. He’s not all about money. He’s a family guy first.
3 yrs. 69 millon is the hook, what’s so bad about that ?
Why will we regret the opt out?
Cash did a great job getting CC. I don’t think he would have come to NY for anything less then what Cashman offered.
Cash come on get me Big Ben and I don’t mean the QB.
WOAH,
SJ44 is back…where the heck have you been???
only way I want Manny on this team is if his contract is drenched in “manny being manny” specific fines:
Not running out a grounder – $200,000 fine.
Home Run stand still at the plate – $300,000 fine.
Not cutting that mop – $500,000 fine (per day).
Urinating on Babe Ruth’s monument during a TV timeout – $5,000,000 fine, and death.
If we are trying to get younger and faster, explain to me how Manny Ramirez fits into that equation. And where are we playing him? In Left? What are we doing with Damon? Trading him? Who’s leading off, Jeter? At least that will cut down on the number of DPs he hits into. What do we do on the days when Manny is being Manny and doesn’t feel like playing? Put Matsui in Left? Yeah, sounds like a plan.
Hank needs to grow a brain.
A fan gets the wave off after he gets mathematical from CC’s contract.
Can anybody tell me if they know anything else on this
http://yankeesnmore.blogspot.c.....-lowe.html
SJ44 – do we not lose another pick if we sign Sheets? because its the same team?
That might be incentive enough right there.
Its not his performance Laura. It was not telling the Yankees about the HGH stuff that hit the fan.
That was a huge hit to the organization and Andy was wrong to blindside them with it. He should have told them.
Old Timers Day is for reminicing. Cashman can’t afford to have a “soft spot” for anybody. He has to put together a winning team.
If Andy wants to take a deal that works for the Yankees, and isn’t insulting to him (10-12 million isn’t an insult) they will bring him back.
If he doesn’t, and his agents continue to tweak the Yankees by talking to the Dodgers and Red Sox, they will say goodbye.
You can balance the feelings and the business but, that takes two to tango.
The Hendricks Brothers leaking that they spoke to the Red Sox and the Dodgers didn’t scare the Yankees. It turned them off.
He didn’t make friends in the organization with that stunt.
That’s why Girardi, one of Pettitte’s closest friends, was so non-committal about his return yesterday.
Glad to see fans coming around on Manny. He’s too good to pass up in a market that is disappearing. Getting Manny as a bargain. How great would that be?
Damn am I embarrassed !!! 3 yrs. 69 million of CC Sabathia 23 million per season IS JUST EMBARRASSING !!!
Don’t pretend that Cashman just writes checks or that you even know how the negotiations went. There is a whole lot more to the business of signing free agents then just paying them.
What would it take to get Ankiel?
Al,
Give credit where credit is due. I am not a big cashman supporter at all but two days ago, it looked as if we didnt have a chance in the world. Even with the 140 million dollar offer topping the brewers and forcing others out of the bidding. Somehow, whatever Cash and Girardi and whoever else said changed his mind from waiting for a west coast team to signing on the dotted line. Maybe it was just the fact that the other teams expressed their non-interest in him but I think that just the fact that CC is finally coming here warrants some credit to cashman and co. iT CLEARLY was not all about the money in this signing – if it was, this would have happened weeks ago.
Laura,
Even outside of the HGH ridiculousness, Pettitte was completely unloyal to the yanks by leaving mid career to go sign with houston. How is that loyalty? Im not saying the yanks shouldnt re-sign pettitte but they should sign him if they think he is going to help the team next year more than anyone else for a similar price. They should NOT sign him out of loyalty or what he has done for the team. And he barely deserves 10 million next year after the steroids news and is pathetic second half performance when the yanks really needed him to step up. If Lowe was asking for 2 years, i would go with Sheets and Lowe but because pettitte is only requirng one while Lowe wants 4, I would probably go with Sheets and Pettitte. I would definitely not sign Lowe and Pettitte – neither have even close to the potential of Sheets and Burnett and both are much older. We should not be signing a guy past his mid 30s to a 4 year deal – Its a big mistake.
Laura
December 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I got flamed before for saying this, but I think that Andy should get more consideration than Sheets due to his history as a Yankee. Yes, I know this a business, but there is something to be said for loyalty, history and prior performance. I’m not saying that Andy should get 16mil. By the same token, I think that 10mil is an insult. Give the guy 12 or 13mil and call it a day.
——————
12-13 million for Pettitte seems fair to me as well. People are quick to forget that postseason performance in Cleveland. We win that game if not for supernatural intervention.
Here’s an article from a Milwaukee paper where Brewers GM Doug Melvin says CC and his agents wanted an opt out clause no matter where he signed (somebody was asking for one in one of the posts, not sure if it was this post). If it was a strict condition of his signing, I guess I can live with it a little more. Still not a fan, but it’s better than not having him at all.
http://tinyurl.com/6n6hcf
Bret the Hitman
December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Glad to see fans coming around on Manny. He’s too good to pass up in a market that is disappearing. Getting Manny as a bargain. How great would that be?
How great? Awesomely great, that’s how great. If we don’t go and get him, we’re stupid.
SJ44,
I agree on the antics of the Hendrick’s Brothers…that was an unnecessarily low tactic.
He is a $12 million/year pitcher, maybe $13.
I still want him back, but yes, business is business, and if they keep pulling this poop, the Yankees probably will say “no thanks.”
this deal of overpaying for sabathia has the same effect that the overpaying for matsuzaka had for the red sox two years ago. it energized the fan base after missing the playoffs. just look at the blog traffic today to see this.
for the red sox in fall 2006,there was an instant buzz created by signing matsuzaka that went into spring training and carried right through to the world series.
there are times when overpaying is worth it, and his may be one of those times. the red sox made other moves too such as bringing up pedroia and signing drew and lugo. cashman likewise will have to make complimentary changes in addition to the sabathia acquisition.
i’m especially hopeful that hughes with a triple a base under him for the spring could emerge as a solid 5th starter by may 15th-june1st and be one the complimentary parts that cashman needs to add. a whole team has to be put together and not just a few spots at the top.
myrtlebeach-
If the Yanks sign another type A free agent, we give up our 2nd round pick, regardless of who it is. Our 1st goes to Mil (unless we sign Tex, then it goes to LAA) and our 2nd goes to whatever team had the next type A we sign (or to Mil if we sign Tex).
The Brewers get the Yankees’ first round pick from this year. If they sign another Type A free agent that was offered arbitration, his former team will get the Yankees’ 2nd round pick from this year. The Yankees cannot lose the compensation picks for the 1st and 2nd round picks that did not sign this year.
There’s no reason not to be happy about CC signing. Cashman had to do whatever it took to get him. It’s kind of funny that he’s getting $69 million for about 9 months in the Bronx, but he’s a 28 year old left handed ace coming off 2 straight Cy Young years.
Now the Yankees have way more leverage negotiating with the other free agents. If they are smart, they will sign Pettitte to his 1 year contract now so that the rest of the free agent pitchers see that the Yankees have CC, Wang, Pettitte, and Joba with Hughes/Aceves as an option for the last spot in the rotation. That should make Burnett, Sheets, Lowe, and Perez and their agents much less confident at the negotiations.
Andy will do a deal with the Yanks if the Yanks offer him enough money to make their offer the most attractive to him.
Who owes what to whom has nothing to do with it. The deal won’t be made on that basis for either side.
I don’t think the bottom will fall out of the Manny market.
I still think he ends up with the Dodgers. Too much pressure on the Dodgers to do that deal.
I think Scott will hold off signing him for awhile.
I think he will wait it all out and see where things are in Late-December/Early-January.
Francesa doesn’t think Sabathia is, “at the top of his sport”.
Sabathia isn’t “at the top of his sport” but he would trade Cano AND Hughes for McClouth.
He should post on this blog when we have Stupid Yankee Trade Proposal Day.
He would win whatever prizes Pete has for that day with his foolishness.
Howie Mandell: “C.C. Sabathia…deal or no deal?”
C.C. (putting down the donut): “DEAL! DEAL!!!”
Seriously. Just pondering if the Opt Out can be exercised YEARLY after the fourth year? Or is it a one time decision?
If I were a remaining free agent, I’d want a Opt Out clause too. Ask and you will get.
“12-13 million for Pettitte seems fair to me as well. People are quick to forget that postseason performance in Cleveland. We win that game if not for supernatural intervention.”
His performance was totally overshadowed by the bugs. People forget that he even started that game.
SJ44
That’s why Girardi, one of Pettitte’s closest friends, was so non-committal about his return yesterday.
——-
Girardi told Waldman he “have a hunch he’ll be a Yankee.”
Pettitte is a left-hander, Pettitte was terrific in his last postseason appearance. Andy is money, and he won’t be holding them hostage with a long-term deal. That’s what Girardi is basing his “hunch” on, not on expecting Pettitte to genuflect in gratitude.
wow just got home and heard the news this is prety exiting i hope he doesnt opt out but this is great news now we need to resign pettite or sign burneet or sheets and add a big bat and thats manram bat him behind a-rod and this is a championship team
Having CC for 3 years is a absolute bargain
by then, De La Rosa, Betances, Garcia, Bracman, Vizcaino, Heredia, will all be ready and Hughes and Joba should already be established.
So we get a stud ace for the 3 years of his middle prime where he will be motivated. The opt out clause makes the deal even better,
“He should post on this blog when we have Stupid Yankee Trade Proposal Day.”
Um, we have that day around here several times a year.
“Andy will do a deal with the Yanks if the Yanks offer him enough money to make their offer the most attractive to him.
Who owes what to whom has nothing to do with it. The deal won’t be made on that basis for either side.”
There is 10 million on the table either he takes it or end of discussion, the Yankees do not need to sweeten anything after last season and sticking w/ him during hard times. Andy owes us.
Laura,
The only way manny would come here is if we can somehow dump matsui’s contract onto another team without getting anything back in return just to shed salary and clear the dh position. Then, we could afford manny more easily and let him play dh for the majority of the year. I guess the days when others need to dh, we try to let him play outfield or just bench him. Its not very feasible but it would be an option to improve the offense. And manny is old but the market has clearly dropped out from under him. He has gotten almost zero interest from competitive clubs – i think a two year deal with a high averague annual rate and a club option would be the only way the yanks sign him. That al ot of ifs so it is probably not happening.
bod,
So your saying we should pay pettitte 3 million more next year because of one good postseason performance two years ago? Maybe he deserves 3 million more for that but he deserves 3 million less for the HGH situation and 3 million less than that for playing like crap the second half of the season giving us no shot at the playoffs. So that brings the total to 7 million. If you are going to take events from 2 years ago and make them worth 3 million,Ill take far more important events from last year and make them worth 3 million.
Wave Your Hat
December 10th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Andy will do a deal with the Yanks if the Yanks offer him enough money to make their offer the most attractive to him.
Who owes what to whom has nothing to do with it. The deal won’t be made on that basis for either side.
—-
Yup.
*did not sign last year
How is Manny a bargain for 2009? To acquire him one of Nady/Matsui/Damon will have to be traded. Trading Matsui will cost the Yankees about 70-80% of his 2009 salary of $13mill. So you are basically paying Manny an additional $10mill. Damon may cost less to trade, but is superior defensively to Manny so we would be downgrading LF defense. Furthermore, putting Damon at DH is an offensive downgrade from Matsui. Manny makes very little sense if the object of the offseason is to get younger and more athletic in addition to cutting payroll.
One would think that such a great city such as NY would say good riddance to a clown, and a pompous one at that, such as Francesa.
Des Moine, maybe, but in “THE CITY”!!!!
Laura
December 10th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
“12-13 million for Pettitte seems fair to me as well. People are quick to forget that postseason performance in Cleveland. We win that game if not for supernatural intervention.”
His performance was totally overshadowed by the bugs. People forget that he even started that game.
—–
Not you and I
“What would it take to get Ankiel?”
Cards offered him and a prospect for Putz. That gives some indication of what they’re thinking.
“What would it take to get Ankiel?”
Cards offered him and a prospect for Putz. That gives some indication of what they’re thinking.
“There is 10 million on the table either he takes it or end of discussion, the Yankees do not need to sweeten anything after last season and sticking w/ him during hard times. Andy owes us”
No, he doesn’t.
dave
December 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Laura,
***Even outside of the HGH ridiculousness, Pettitte was completely unloyal to the yanks by leaving mid career to go sign with houston. How is that loyalty? *** Im not saying the yanks shouldnt re-sign pettitte but they should sign him if they think he is going to help the team next year more than anyone else for a similar price. They should NOT sign him out of loyalty or what he has done for the team. And he barely deserves 10 million next year after the steroids news and is pathetic second half performance when the yanks really needed him to step up. If Lowe was asking for 2 years, i would go with Sheets and Lowe but because pettitte is only requirng one while Lowe wants 4, I would probably go with Sheets and Pettitte. I would definitely not sign Lowe and Pettitte – neither have even close to the potential of Sheets and Burnett and both are much older. We should not be signing a guy past his mid 30s to a 4 year deal – Its a big mistake.
————————————————————
You when you thought it was safe to go back in the water…..errr…..read all of the posts again.
“i’m especially hopeful that hughes with a triple a base under him for the spring could emerge as a solid 5th starter by may 15th-june1st and be one the complimentary parts that cashman needs to add.”
I agree. Hughes will benefit a lot from time in AAA, particularly now as he’s added a new pitcher in the cutter.
If they sign one more veteran and pettite Hughes can learn and gain experience with much less pressure in AAA and can fit in later on in the season if injuries occur or can slot into the rotation in 2010 as needed.
The value of signing sabathia extends past the games he’s pitching.
He combines brilliant performance with the ability to handle a significant workload.
“No, he doesn’t.”
Yes he does.
“The only way manny would come here is if we can somehow dump matsui’s contract onto another team without getting anything back in return just to shed salary and clear the dh position.”
That’s a lot to dump. Isn’t Matsui making 13mil? Add to that what we’d be paying Manny (he wants $25mil – I think his dreads are on too tight) and it seems too much money to spend IMO.
tom
December 10th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Having CC for 3 years is a absolute bargain
by then, De La Rosa, Betances, Garcia, Bracman, Vizcaino, Heredia, will all be ready and Hughes and Joba should already be established.
So we get a stud ace for the 3 years of his middle prime where he will be motivated. The opt out clause makes the deal even better,
—-
Tom, you’re as smart as the Yankees, who gave Sabathia an out just around the time our youngens are ready to move in. Garcia, I hope, we see sooner, and maybe DLR in bullpen. Can’t wait to see Manny Banuelos as he develops! He could be the lefty starter in our future
Sorry bout that double post. 1st day with the new fingers.
***Just when you***
Pettitte owes the Yankees nothing. He’ll sign with the Yanks if they can come to a mutually agreeable deal. If the two sides can’t agree I’m sure he’ll go elsewhere, or retire.
Pettitte was great for all of 2007, deserved more wins than he got. But he stunk pretty bad just about all of last year.
So, why would he deserve the same salary a year later, a year older, and a year further from HGH? $12 – 13M.
It’s amazing a clueless guy like Francesa garners such a huge listenership. In the past year he’s wanted the Yankees to trade the farm for a one year wonder like Nate McClouth and go after a mediocre pitcher like Arroyo because he’s supposedly “yuuge” in the clutch. Utterly absurd, but such is the nature of sports talk radio.
The Yankees appear right on schedule. Priority number one is taken care of, sign two from Burnett-Lowe-Sheets-Petitte, and the starting rotation is automatically one of the best in the majors.
Girardi also said he hasn’t talked to Pettitte in the last 10 days.
When he last spoke to him, he was non-committal about returning.
What’s changed in the last 10 days? The Red Sox and Dodgers stunts.
Interesting how “recruiting” ended after that.
I think the Yankees will sign Lowe or Burnett in the next few days.
After that, we will find out how much Andy wants to be back.
I don’t see them moving too much off the 10 million dollar offer. Perhaps adding makeable incentives (something the Yankees hate doing in deals) could be a compromise.
I don’t think they come close to hitting the AAV Lowe and Burnett will hit in this market.
I also think that if Andy and Sheets have the same offer, and both guys want to come, the Yankees have a very tough call to make.
If healthy, Ben Sheets is the second best FA pitcher on the market.
Clearly, the “if healthy” thing is a big deal.
However, if his MRI’s are clean, and he wants to come to NY (don’t know if he does) its going to be awfully tough for the Yankees to turn him away.
SJ,
The dodgers seem like the only team in the fold right now and i BELIEVE they are only up to 2 years and 45 million at this point and they have retracted that offer. MLBtr says the giants and angels have no interest. The phillies dont look interested either. I dunno how he is even signing a long-term deal with an NL club – where does he play when he starts to fall apart? He really needs to come back to the AL. I think in the end he will be had for no more than 3 years with a high average annual. Unless the angels lose on Tex and go after manny then, he will probably go to four.
The opt-out clause makes this deal better for CC. It makes the deal better for the Yankees only if it was absolutely necessary to get the deal done, but we may never know if that was the case. Bottom line: we were desperate for CC, he was the #1 target by a wide margin, and we got him.
Side thought: if CC had taken the precise deal that had been on the table for over a month, wouldn’t he and his agent have looked a little silly, at least superficially?
$10 M – 12 M take it or leave it Andy and STHU about this already this is CC’s day !
“Even outside of the HGH ridiculousness, Pettitte was completely unloyal to the yanks by leaving mid career to go sign with houston. How is that loyalty?”
I don’t think you are remember that situation accurately. Andy wanted to sign with us, but the Yankees were worried that his arm was going to be a problem so they delayed and delayed. After what they had accomplished with him in the rotation, Andy thought that he should have been treated better. He got annoyed and left. That doesn’t sound disloyal to me. The Yankees made that decision for Andy.
And while we are debating this, ask yourselves how many more rings do you think we would have won had Andy stayed around? We will never know, but it’s an interesting question to ponder.
All I am still hearing is that CC did not want to come here. I still would like to see a direct quote from him stating this
“What would it take to get Ankiel?”
I don’t know but Ankiel would be an incredibly valuable addition to the Yanks for a year.
If we could get him, he would be an essentially free, massive upgrade over Gardner. It would allow the Yanks to get two FA pitchers and upgrade the offense at the same time.
Yesterday, Joel Sherman says the Cards were interested in IPK. I don’t think IPK alone would get him, but I’d explore the deal.
“What’s changed in the last 10 days? The Red Sox and Dodgers stunts.”
Imagine a free agent, going largely ignored by his previous team except for their kind offer to give him a job at a 40% paycut, talking to other teams about a job. From where does he find the nerve?
Boy, Atlanta really wants AJ Burnett. What a huge offer. But it’s the NL so they might get a better return on their investment than an AL East team. Will the Yankees get in a bidding war over Burnett?
bod,
So your saying we should pay pettitte 3 million more next year because of one good postseason performance two years ago? Maybe he deserves 3 million more for that but he deserves 3 million less for the HGH situation and 3 million less than that for playing like crap the second half of the season giving us no shot at the playoffs. So that brings the total to 7 million. If you are going to take events from 2 years ago and make them worth 3 million,Ill take far more important events from last year and make them worth 3 million.
—-
That game underscores that he’s a postseason pitcher, which we all know. It’s all relative: he’s a left-hander pitching in Yankee Stadium – that’s significant. You have to view these things in their proper context. Francesa babbled on about how Sabathia won’t necessarily be so great in the AL East. Yankee Stadium is the park he’ll call home – it’s kind to left-handers.
For years and years, people get tantalized with RH power pitchers, not realizing that our park isn’t the best place for them. The Peavy crazed never stop to consider this.
Furthermore, 12-13 mil is already a paycut. Be fair. Pettitte is going to give us another lefty starter, but as a fourth or fifth starter – that’s invaluable.
“Pettitte owes the Yankees nothing.”
Oh, I guess that whole HGH thing never happened.
He was named in the Mitchell report last year yet the team stood by him. He put the Yankees in a tough position. Plus, he pitched poorly in the second half of the season.
If he wants to pitch for the Yankees this season, then he will be willing to take a cut from the $16 million he made last year. If he can get that payout somewhere else, then so be it.
Chris NY
December 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Pettitte was great for all of 2007, deserved more wins than he got. But he stunk pretty bad just about all of last year.
So, why would he deserve the same salary a year later, a year older, and a year further from HGH? $12 – 13M.
————————————————————
Prior to the 31 July start, Pettitte was pitching as well as Mussina and the vast majority of the starting pitchers in baseball. He had a 12-7, with a 3.73 ERA and lost a lot of games due to poor run support and uneven defense.
This deal makes me upset. I like having CC, however if he can be an Angel or Giant in 3 years it kinda takes the excitement out of it for me at least.
Chris NY
December 10th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Pettitte was great for all of 2007, deserved more wins than he got. But he stunk pretty bad just about all of last year.
So, why would he deserve the same salary a year later, a year older, and a year further from HGH? $12 – 13M.
—-
Did I miss a post here suggesting we pay him $16M? I think Laura said we bring him back for $ 12-13, and some of us concurred.
andy took less money to play in houston & we hurt his feelings?
he wanted to be close to home.
how come he doesn’t take less now & play for another team since we are really hurting his feelings.
makes no sense at all.
“Oh, I guess that whole HGH thing never happened.”
And how exactly did the Yankees suffer??? Did people actually believe the Yankees or any other team in MLB were clean during the steroid era?? Did the Yankees suffer financially? Did their reputation take a hit that wasn’t shared by the rest of baseball?
Where was the Yankees indignation on the Pettitte matter last year…..when they needed him???
rity number one is taken care of, sign two from Burnett-Lowe-Sheets-Petitte, and the starting rotation is automatically one of the best in the majors.
____________________
So, two guys with terrible injury history, two guys who are near 40 years old, one kid with a probably 150ip limit, and one guy who gets pounded by good hitting teams?
If that’s you’re idea of a great rotation, we’re in dire need of new standards.
Nick,
“The opt-out clause makes this deal better for CC. It makes the deal better for the Yankees only if it was absolutely necessary to get the deal done, but we may never know if that was the case. Bottom line: we were desperate for CC, he was the #1 target by a wide margin, and we got him.”
I agree, plus if the Yankees need to, they can operate under the assumption that he will opt out and get plans in place long before that occurs so as to temper the impact it has on the rotation.
its a win-win…we got our guy for at least 3 years.
after reading a number of thoughful comments here i think it is time to let pettite go elsewhere. he has not shown any particular loyalty to the yankees. it appears more and more that he is only loyal to himself and his “clemenesque” philosophy me first and i can just fool everyone with some clever publicity and marketing an image of “golly i’m just a plain ole bible totin’ country boy. in reality he is as cutthroat as anyone. if he really bled pinstripes no one would be having this debate. moreover it is time to realize/admit that he is no sure thing anyway. he is not that pitcher people want to remember from even 5 years ago. he is an experienced qustion mark. i do not question his desire, work ethic, or courage on a big stage. i just don’t think his success is a sure thing anymore. for a little more r a little less get sheets,perez or someone ele wiyh upside and less hassle. respectfully.
Fredo,
At the end of the season, he told the Yankees privately, and the media publicly, it was either the Yankees or retirement in 2009.
He reiterated it in the off-season.
Now, he’s shopping himself to teams that, for different reasons, make Yankee management/ownership blood boil.
Does he have a right to change his mind? Yes he does.
The Yankees also have a right to be ticked off, hold the line with him, and/or move on. Mainly because it would be yet another instance in which he was less than candid with them about his plans.
I have nothing against Pettitte. However, if he is going to play a game of chicken with the Yankees, especially after all that went down last year, he can’t expect them to be happy about it.
If that means they pull his offer and/or go in a different direction, he can’t be upset. He would have brought it on himself.
Al,
I don’t think you’ll feel that way after he plays an integral part in bringing the championship back to the Bronx
Prior to the 31 July start, Pettitte was pitching as well as Mussina and the vast majority of the starting pitchers in baseball. He had a 12-7, with a 3.73 ERA and lost a lot of games due to poor run support and uneven defense.
—-
GB7^^^
—-
He also wasn’t feeling great, which he downplayed, but you could see that.
For me, the best moves would be:
Burnett at $15-16 AAV x 4-5;
Sheets at $13 AAV x 2-3;
Pettitte at $13 x 1.
As you can guess, I’m not a Lowe lover. Too much ACLS baggage, age 35, and too getting soft in the NL West (not really, but why not throw in a Torre jab while I’m at it). Yes, he’s a sinkerballer, but at age 39 at contract end?
“He combines brilliant performance with the ability to handle a significant workload.”
wang and sabathia back to back gives two totally different looks and lots of innings.i like the synergy that sabathia adds to the team. the bullpen should benefit immensely form these two going back to back. joba’s lack of innings becomes less of a concern. all in all, quite the addition.
pettitte gave up around 30 more hits per innings pitched,a whip of 1.41 & the league batted 2.90 against him.
these are not good numbers at all.
you have to look good at his numbers they do not compare well against burnett,sheets,cc,lowe.
“Did I miss a post here suggesting we pay him $16M? I think Laura said we bring him back for $ 12-13, and some of us concurred.”
not sure, did you miss the part where Andy and his agents don’t think he should have to take a pay cut?
I guess the Yankees had nothing to worry about with Andy’s elow right? Oh yeah thats right. He needed surgery. So seems to me their wanting him to get an mri was warrented. and his not wanting to, was wrong.
This deal makes me upset. I like having CC, however if he can be an Angel or Giant in 3 years it kinda takes the excitement out of it for me at least.
———————————————————-
Would you rather not even have him for 3 years?
Forget about the opt-out. If it wasn’t there, he wouldn’t be here at all.
Alot can happen in 3 years. Worry about that day when it gets here.
Why everyone is getting all worked up about it, I don’t know.
“I think Laura said we bring him back for $ 12-13, and some of us concurred.”
who said I was arguing with Laura or anyone else?
To anyone:
Don’t the Yankees get a lux tax +/- revenue sharing break due to the new stadium?
To Pete:
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, bro. “Site was down, couldn’t get my post in for an hour”???? We’ll leave it at that.
GB,
After July 8th, pettittes era went from 3.93 to 4.54 in July, August and September starts. That is not a very good sign considering he has always been considered a better second half pitcher.
Al, if you really want to be upset, this is from today’s San Francisco Chronicle:
“The Giants’ interest in CC Sabathia is genuine, and so is the pitcher’s interest in the Giants.”
OMG! How true is his love????
Everyone keeps saying the Yankees stood by him. What does that even mean? The HGH thing came out AFTER he signed with the Yanks. What are they supposed to do, call him a liar and a cheat? He was locked in as the team’s #2 starter, they had no choice but to “stand by him”.
Pettitte probably can’t get $16 million on the market but he can definitely get more than $10 million. Why should he have to take a below-market deal with the Yanks? I’m sure he wants to be a Yankee but if they can’t meet his price then he should by all means go somewhere else.
“So, two guys with terrible injury history, two guys who are near 40 years old, one kid with a probably 150ip limit, and one guy who gets pounded by good hitting teams?”
Ah, must be a Francesa fan.
To me the whole thing about Pettite and the Mitchell report was the timing of it. If you all recall Andy signed a few days before the Mitchell Report was released and on his conference call he was specifically asked by a Daily News reporter about Brian McNamee. The news reporter obviously knew what was about to come out and Andy denied having spoken to him or working with him recently.The facts that he was named in the Mitchell Report to me was not the issue but it was the fact that Andy KNEW he was going to be named (he had to knowing that the Mitchell people reached out to him and his agents) and he neglected to tell the Yankees anything about it until it was released. He then denied and then switched his tune.
What did the Yankees do. They supported him in any way possible both publicly and privately even though he did not show the same support or honesty to the team in not telling them he was going to be named.
Bob(the original),
Exactly. If he signed with any other team, the opt out would have been in that deal.
Would you rather have 0 years of CC or a minimum of 3 years for CC?
Also, just because the opt out is in doesn’t mean he’s leaving. In this world, a LOT can happen in 3 years.
The idea is to close the sale and Cashman closed the sale.
Now, its onto filling out the rest of the rotation.
“Don’t the Yankees get a lux tax +/- revenue sharing break due to the new stadium?”
Yes on revenue sharing, no on the luxury tax.
bodhisattva
December 10th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Prior to the 31 July start, Pettitte was pitching as well as Mussina and the vast majority of the starting pitchers in baseball. He had a 12-7, with a 3.73 ERA and lost a lot of games due to poor run support and uneven defense.——
GB7^
——
He also wasn’t feeling great, which he downplayed, but you could see that.
————————————————————
Exactly. NYY was still in the race. Had NYY had another option for two weeks, he could have been rested, and that may have made all of the difference in the season for Pettitte and NYY. He still went out every start and took it as far as he could every start, For a good portion of the season, he had no cutter to through to the right handed hitters.
say what you wan’t about lowe his numbers are better than pettitte’s.
lowe gave up fewer hits per innings,lower whip,lower era & lower ba against
“At the end of the season, he told the Yankees privately, and the media publicly, it was either the Yankees or retirement in 2009.”
I’m sure he expected a fair offer from the Yankees when he said that. $10 million is not a fair offer. The rumor about the Dodgers and Red Sox is obviously just a ploy by Pettitte and his agents to get the Yankees to increase their offer. If the Yankees won’t offer him $12-13 mil, Pettitte can and should do whatever he can to force their hand. If they still don’t make a fair offer, he should leave.
***throw to the right handed hitter***
Patrick,
What could the Yankees have done? They could have moved to void the contract and make life a living hell for him.
In essence, he signs an agreement under false pretenses. He was asked by the Yankees about whether there was anything in the Mitchell Report that would “hurt” them and he said, “no”.
Believe me, they did him a solid. I’m not saying he should sign for a #1.
I am saying, marching your agents to the Red Sox and Dodgers to tweak the Yankees isn’t the smart thing to do if you want to come back.
“I don’t know but Ankiel would be an incredibly valuable addition to the Yanks for a year.”
I’m not so sure about that.
Ankiel is a very poor CF defensively and is a major injury risk.
Last year Ankiel was 12 runs above average at the plate. He was 16 runs worse than league average in CF. So Ankiel was at best league average and more likely a little bit less than league average.
Compare Ankiel to Mike Cameron a player who will be much cheaper to trade for (though more money to spend…). Cameron last year was 10 runs better than league average offensively. And he was 10 runs better than average defensively. So Cameron was a net +20 player. Which is way better than Ankiel.
Ankiel hits for a lot of power but doesn’t get on base much and is often injured. On top of that he’s more of a corner outfielder playing CF than a true CF.
“Also, just because the opt out is in doesn’t mean he’s leaving.”
Means Sabathia controls the situation 100% and the Yankees 0%. That’s not a good thing. Not sure I’d let it be a dealbreaker, but the fact that I’m 60% higher than the only other offer he had would have me thinking about it.
I wonder which restaurant in the NYC-metro area CC will visit first? Hopefully he brings Edwar with him, that boy could use some more meat on his bones.
jennifer
December 10th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I guess the Yankees had nothing to worry about with Andy’s elow right? Oh yeah thats right. He needed surgery. So seems to me their wanting him to get an mri was warrented. and his not wanting to, was wrong.
————————————————————
His elbow was hurt to the point of needing surgery, because of a check swing while batting on a cold day…not while pitching.
Patrick-
People who think Andy should or will sign with the Yanks for less than he’s worth, either out of loyalty or because he owes them (which I don’t think), are hopeless romantics.
You should never argue with hopeless romantics.
and so another one year dance with pettite? so we pass on sheets,perez or some quality starter who could be here for two or three years?! who is a given to take his spot next year? h sanchez, hughes, kennedy? and what if they are not ready? we do this again next year with pettite? opportunity cost too high. imo.
I’d rather pay Pettitte than Lowe.
Another way to look at the opt-out: if CC exercises the clause, that most likely means that:
a) he performed at such a high level in his three years in pinstripes that he could realistically get more money on the open market as a 31 year old pitcher. That means we would have gotten three pretty good years out of CC in is prime, no?
b) he and his family just don’t like living in NY and his heart isn’t in it and he’s ready to take less or the same to go west. If that’s the case, we wish him well and say goodbye, don’t we?
c) CC totally bombs in NY and has too much pride to be a Yankee Zito and wants a fresh start elsewhere. Unlikely, I know.
I’m spinning here; I’m still not crazy about the opt-out but I’m crazy about CC in pinstripes.
“lowe gave up fewer hits per innings,lower whip,lower era & lower ba against”
Yes, in the weaker NL. I guarantee you that Lowe’s numbers against AL hitters will be worse.
SJ44,
The Yankees needed Pettitte more than he needed them last season. He was their #2 starter, you are telling me they seriously considered voiding his contract? That’s absurd.
The Yankees did Pettitte no favors, and he has done them no favors. The Yankees have paid Pettitte a lot of money and he’s earned all of it.
Andy also whined to the press at a function in NY (Torre’s dinner I think it was), “I sure would like to know if they want me back” or something to that extent.
Using the media for negotiations isn’t exactly something that appeals to the Yankees either. Especially since people say he already had their offer by then, albeit a low offer. He was acting like he hadn’t heard a single thing from the team.
No sense in going after Manny especially if he’s going to cost more than Tiexiera.
Makes no sense to me to sign Manny anyways. I flat out do not want that joker in pinstripes. If the bottom falls out of the market for him and NY would offer him significantly less than his previous 20M per, then other teams have a shot at signing him too. And If we’re going close to 20M for a non-pitcher, it should be Tiexiera not Manny.
I would LOVE to see the negative side of Manny’s reputation cost him a ton of money in his next contract.
Yeah I know he’ll still be rich as hell but that’s not the point. It’s all about the respect or how you treat people or whatever crap he said.
Besides .. with a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba and two of either Lowe, Sheets, Burnett or Pettitte (in my order of preference) with Hughes waiting in AAA and Mo still closing in the bullpen, does the team need to spend that much moolah on a guy who only hits?
Keep in mind that it’s a given Manny will NOT be batting in the same lineup as David Ortiz anymore.
Tiexiera, on the other hand …
“I wonder which restaurant in the NYC-metro area CC will visit first? Hopefully he brings Edwar with him, that boy could use some more meat on his bones”
Sylvia’s ?
dave
December 10th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
GB,
After July 8th, pettittes era went from 3.93 to 4.54 in July, August and September starts. That is not a very good sign considering he has always been considered a better second half pitcher.
————————————————————
Once again…his ERA before his 31 July start was 3.73. That was the start of his problems. Remove the 31 July game of 5.1 innings and 9 earned runs and figure out what his July ERA was.
CB-
I know Ankiel is below average defensively in CF but:
Ankiel will get paid approximately $1MM in 2009, Cameron $10MM. It’s unlikely that the Yanks will get two more FA pitchers plus Cameron.
While Cameron may be slightly below average as a major league CF, Gardner will quite possibly be WAY below average, so Ankiel is still a big upgrade.
If we get Ankiel, we have four outfielders who could play in CF – Damon, Ankiel, Nady (a little) and Swisher. We ought to be able to cobble something together.
So, I think he’d be a good get if the Yanks are fixated on getting two more FA pitchers.
Laura
we don’t know that for sure.
i think they are very similar.
i just think that the yankees are getting tired of his crap & are less concerned about lowe who always takes the ball.
pettitte tired out towards the end of the year & cobine that with the hgh use this concerns the yankees & should.
i think it comes down to the yankees wanting lowe,burnett & maybe sheets before him.
Not sure why HGH uproar is about concerning Pettitte. It was two shots back in 2002 and was given to him while rehabbing AT LEGENDS FIELD. Obviously, the medical staff/trainers who were there, knew about it and, that means the Yasks knew about it.
why would you prefer to pay pettite than lowe? because lowe was a member of the red sux and andy was a member of the 90′s yankees. it is time to put the best players on the field and not have sentimental moments with members of yankee teams past. this is what boston has done. and this is why boston is in better shape than us.
Still think Andy has more value than Lowe.
And when it comes down to it, Pettitte has some through for us in the Postseason, where we hope to be this year.
everybody might be right about pettitte & his era before injuries but if you look at his numbers they are light years away from a # 3 pitcher.
compare his whip,hits per innings and baa to other number 3′s and you will see this.
era is a bad way to judge a pitcher.
i love pettitte but what makes you think at a year older he doesn’t break down again?
jmo.
if it is pettitte for 10 million or lowe for 17 then i might take pettitte but for a similar price i take lowe.
come through
Way too much money for CC. And they gave him an opt-out ! Idiotic move by Ca$hman. Why doesn’t he ask JP Riccardi how that opt-out deal for Burnett is working out ?
“I know Ankiel is below average defensively in CF but”
Stop right there, no buts……. why would we want a defensive liability in such an important position? I’m not saying Ankiel is below average, I don’t know enough about him. Just going off of what you said.
nyfilly
December 10th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
why would you prefer to pay pettite than lowe? because lowe was a member of the red sux and andy was a member of the 90’s yankees. it is time to put the best players on the field and not have sentimental moments with members of yankee teams past. this is what boston has done. and this is why boston is in better shape than us.
———————————————————–
Because Pettitte for one year is preferrable to Lowe for 4 years. Why block the best of the minor prospects from being promoted for the next 4-5 years/ If you do, why have a farm system?
“AT LEGENDS FIELD”
Huh?? Didn’t Andy give a whole speech about how he felt strange going to some guy’s hotel room to get a shot, how that was how he realized he was doing something wrong……..?
“Stop right there, no buts……. why would we want a defensive liability in such an important position?”
ChrisNY, no offense, but I think I answered your question in the original post.
Also, remember, half of the starting center fielders in baseball are below average.
“I know Ankiel is below average defensively in CF but”
He’s not below average. He’s awful. There’s a big difference.
If Ankiel hadn’t gotten hurt he was playing at a rate to be 16 runs below average at CF. That would have been the worst in baseball. Worse than the awful nate mcclouth.
This is why i wasn’t real thrilled about trading Kennedy. It’s not really kennedy – it’s Ankiel as well.
Gardner projects to be -20 offensively and say +10 defensively. So he’s a net -10 player.
Ankield projects to be a +7 offensive player last season and at least -10 defensively. Maybe he’s better offensively by 3-5 runs but he could easily be worse defensively than -10.
So ankiel might be 7-10 runs better than Gardner due to his terrible defense.
A 7-10 run upgrade isn’t very impressive at all and its questionable how much they should give up in a trade for that small upgrade on a player who is going to be a free agent.
Cameron may be more expensive but he’s a major upgrade from gardner. Ankiel isn’t. Cameron will also be less expensive in talent to acquire.
Lowe vs. Andy is not the issue. Were Lowe a one year deal only, there’s no issue, but it’s not. Boras wants to take hm to age 40 (he’s one year younger than Andy) and that’s preposterous. Anything beyond 2 years, or pushing the envelop, 3 based on certain vesting standards, is beyond the pale.
I also would not write off the possibility of Hughes for the number 5 slot.
there is not one single farm system pitcher that has proven they deserve a spot in the rotation,brackman,betances & most of the others are years away & debth is a good thing.
did the red sox not sign becket,dicek because of the farm system & lester found a way to get into the rotation.
you have to think win now & let the kids earn a spot if they can not wait for them especially with a new stadium,tons of money.
Way too much money for CC. And they gave him an opt-out ! Idiotic move by Ca$hman. Why doesn’t he ask JP Riccardi how that opt-out deal for Burnett is working out ?
__________
Don’t compare the Yankees to the Jays. If CC leaves, we find someone else. We have the money to do that, the Jays don’t.
hat, not really. You’re saying you’d want to put a bad defender in a critical defensive position because he’s cheaper. I’m saying that’s not enough of a reason. I’m sure there are a lot of cheap options to throw out there.
in fact, we have 2 cheap options that would be much better defenders.
CB-
Well I guess we just disagree on this one.
Gardner quite possibly won’t even be able to hold down the job. He could be worse offensively than you project.
With Ankiel, Damon could get quite a few starts in CF and still not have to be the everyday CF. That would reduce Ankiel’s negative defensive impact. Ankiel could play out there when CC (strikeouts), Wang (groundballs) or Lowe (groundballs, if we get him) pitch.
The Yanks can’t have Cameron unless they are willing to have Hughes or Aceves in the fifth starter slot or spend a lot more in payroll than they are publicly acknowledging.
Kennedy is blocked every which way, and other teams are aware of that. He won’t have a chance to prove himself in the majors with us. We won’t be able to trade him for a lot.
So, as I said, let’s be content to disagree.
CB,
completely agree with you on Ankiel. I’m not sure I’d sign him as a FA. To give up a quality prospect for him? Not a fan.
Also, wasn’t he mixed up in HGH rumors at some point during the last 2 years?
The Yankees need solid D in CF. The corner spots aren’t fantastic defensively. Cameron is the best fit if they are going to make a move.
pettitte might make more sense for a year compared to lowe,i don’t know.
i think the yankees like the other pitchers better to compete in 09,simple as that.
we know burnett & sheets are better than pettitte barring injuries.i think the yankees like that lowe always takes the ball,pitched great in the playoffs,maybe better than pettitte if not definitely better.
we need 2 more pitchers and an argument can be made for and against any of the remaining ones.
the yankees may well sign lowe 7 pettitte but i think they are upset with pettitte for a few reasons & it might cause the yankees to pass on him.
“Kennedy is blocked every which way, and other teams are aware of that. He won’t have a chance to prove himself in the majors with us. We won’t be able to trade him for a lot.”
I don’t think MLB teams care about that. They’ll trade for him if they see him as a potential big league starter. The Yankees, thanks to signing CC and probably another top starter, and having a solid bullpen, don’t reek of desperation like they have in the past.
Teams would take advantage of the Yankees if there were gaping holes in their roster. There aren’t.
I will keep saying this til someone convinces me it doesn’t make sense. Sign Tex, put Damon in center, Swisher in left. Sign Pettitte. That’s the most talented team in baseball and it cuts abour $10mil off the pay roll, $20 mil with luxury tax.
Next season they have CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes in the rotation and Jeter, Tex, A-Rod, Swisher, Cano, Posada, Jackson in the lineup, and a stacked bullpen. The only holes are 5th starter, RF, and DH and the payroll is at like $140 mil.
Lowe is a lot like Wang though, with the sinkerball. Perhaps having two similar pitchers will hurt them, Wang in particular who was different that the other guys around him, and it showed in his record.
“Kennedy is blocked every which way, and other teams are aware of that. He won’t have a chance to prove himself in the majors with us. We won’t be able to trade him for a lot.”
How is that true? He is not blocked at all right now, actually, (3 starters under contract but that’s just semantics). But, beyond the semantics, he will, barring a sell-low trade this offseason, still be in the mix to get a fill-in call up next season. It’s conceivable that Hughes or Aceves are either hurt or being outperformed by Kennedy at AAA once a starter hits the 15-day-DL. And if that happens, he’s not blocked–although if he pitched well, his value, both in trades and to the Yankees, would only go up.
“I will keep saying this til someone convinces me it doesn’t make sense. ”
You could have used the same argument 7 years ago for signing Giambi. I love Tex but the Yankees would be wise to curb spending at least a little bit and not hand out 8-10 year mega-contracts. If Tex would go for 5 years, that’s a different story. He won’t.
no.27
with cc payroll is 167 million tex & pettitte are another 30-35 million.you need a math course.
Andrew,
The discussion originally assumed that the Yanks will sign at least one and probably two more FA pitchers of the Lowe, Burnett, Sheets, Pettitte quality. That’s why Kennedy is blocked.
Swisher can be the 08 Scott Brosius.
Brosius batted .203 the last year for the A’s, and if we had blogs in 1997-1998, i would guess we would have threatened Cashman’s life, in his first season too.
I think Swisher can be good and i dont think we need to score 1000 runs to win.
Oh Sheet!!!, Wang isn’t good because people aren’t used to his sinker. He’s good because they can’t hit it anywhere but on the ground.
That wouldn’t change just because another guy in a 5 man rotation also throws a sinker. Just like people won’t suddenly be able to hit Joba or CC just because there are 2 guys that throw hard in the same rotation.
Chris NY
December 10th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
“AT LEGENDS FIELD”
Huh?? Didn’t Andy give a whole speech about how he felt strange going to some guy’s hotel room to get a shot, how that was how he realized he was doing something wrong……..?
————————————————————
Here is the portion of the report.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
From April 21 to June 14, 2002, Pettitte was on the disabled list with elbow tendonitis. McNamee said that Pettitte called him while Pettitte was rehabilitating his elbow in Tampa, where the Yankees have a facility, and asked again about human growth hormone. Pettitte stated that he wanted to speed his recovery and help his team.
McNamee traveled to Tampa at Pettitte’s request and spent about ten days assisting Pettitte with his rehabilitation. McNamee recalled that he injected Pettitte with human growth hormone that McNamee obtained from [Kirk] Radomski on two to four occasions. Pettitte paid McNamee for the trip and his expenses; there was no separate payment for the human growth hormone.
That wouldn’t change just because another guy in a 5 man rotation also throws a sinker. Just like people won’t suddenly be able to hit Joba or CC just because there are 2 guys that throw hard in the same rotation.
Different angles, different styles. The point is if you see the same thing day after day, you adjust and learn.
I would think it would only be even a mild question if they pitched back to back days.
bru,
“with cc payroll is 167 million tex & pettitte are another 30-35 million.you need a math course.”
Let’s see if we can figure this out.
167 + 32 = 199
Last year’s salaries = 209
209 – 199 = 10
So the Yankees save $10 million, which is $20 million saved with the luxury tax.
Maybe back to back, Sheet, but I’d still think it would only matter If you’re talking about the same guy or the same game. It’s only 3 or 4 games at a clip we face each team. No one is seeing the same thing day after day after day, etc… Like you said, only mild. I’d guess less than mild.