Cashman to get face time with Pettitte
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- December
- 11
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I knew something was up.
Brian Cashman, according to the Post, flew to Texas to meet with Andy Pettitte in Houston. The well-traveled GM is probably arriving with an ultimatum.
In essence: take it or leave it. The Yankees would be pleased to have Pettitte back as one of their starters. But not for anything close to the $16 million he made last season.
The Yankees, at the moment, have Sabathia, Wang and Chamberlain in the rotation with A.J. Burnett probably on the way. The Yankees could go out and get Ben Sheets for two years or fill the spot from within.
Andy has enough left to land with another team. But he wants little to do with living or playing anywhere else. After everything that went down last year, Pettitte needs to show the Yankees some love.
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on Thursday, December 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Just settle at 12M and move on.
I also really hope this Cameron deal falls apart.
” The well-traveled GM is probably arriving with an ultimatum. In essence: take it or leave it.”
Brian Cashman: The Michael Corleone of GMs…
Finalize AJ and get Andy theres your rotation! OK Cash lets try to get a bat for the line-up.
Andy, Sheets or Lowe for the #4 spot ??? ( remember Joba needs to be #5 because of innings limit ) I gotta say, I’d rather roll the dice with Sheets, unless that MRI has some nastiness to it. But maybe Andy can better his performance from last year ???? Who knows….I am thinking that we get AJ and Andy in the next 24 hours….then we snatch up the Tex man and a REAL CF !!!
I think today is when we find out who Andy really is.
10 or nothing. You want to throw in some makeable incentives (which the Yankees hate to do), consider it.
If he was open to going to other teams, he would have a hard time getting an 8 million dollar offer in this marketplace.
If Andy comes in at 10, and they finish the Burnett deal, its the best starting rotation in baseball.
If he turns it down, he will regret it.
“Just settle at 12M and move on.”
My tops would be 13mil, giving him credit for his years of service on 4 World Championship teams.
And here is the part where people start telling me that you don’t make deals based on prior performance or emotion. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.
And go get Sheets already
If I were Andy I’d take the $10 mil. With the kind of money he’s made during his career, is it really worth the hassle of moving to another city for an extra 2 or 3 million? That sounds insane to most people but Andy has made a lot of dough, 2 or 3 million shouldn’t get in the way of happiness and comfort.
Show Cash the love, Andy!
$10 million is more than fair. Take it or leave it. The Yanks overpaid for Andy last year — for sure.
“If he turns it down, he will regret it.”
If he turns it down, he will retire.
I kind of find it hard to believe that Derek Lowe could get a multi year deal @ 14 million a year for 4 years and Andy can only get at most 8 million for a one year deal.
In fact I don’t believe it at all. I’d prefer to have Andy back on a one year deal and Sheets on a 2 year deal personally over paying 16 million a year for 5 years of Burnett.
I hope it’s Andy for the #4 spot. I don’t want Lowe period and I don’t know if the new Stadium has enough dice to roll on both Burnett *and* Sheets.
The offense is still awful.
We’ll be the new Toronto Blue Jays… good starting pitching, pretty good bullpen, inconsistent offense that lacks punch or the ability to put the ball in play.
Cashman says 10…Pettitte says 16
Settle at 13 mil….and get on with it!
$10 million and that’s it. If not, adios Andy
Cash is racking up the frequent flyer miles this week. A free RT ticket is 25,000 miles. How many miles do you need to redeem for a CF?
I’d take a chance with Sheets for $13 million for 2 years vs. Andy for 1 year at 10 million.
I don’t know, SJ44.
In a market where Lowe is reportedly getting a $64MM/4 year offer, Burnette $85/5 years, Sheets $26/2 years, is Andy really only worth $8MM a year on the open market? I hope he does sign with the Yanks for $10MM but I’m not sure he will.
Responding to one of your posts two threads ago, I think it is fair to project the Yanks’ current offense to score between 800 to 840 runs, which will be fine with all the pitching they will pile up.
My worry is that there is much more risk on the downside of that projection.
It assumes Posada can catch and posts close to career averages, it assumes Cano and Swisher both bounce back close to career numbers. it assumes Gardner can produce enough to stay in the lineup, it assumes we don’t lose substantial ABs from Matsui or Damon. It assumes Jeter isn’t in substantial decline offensively. And, right now, there’s no bench to step in if there is a major injury to a position player.
I think that’s why there’s a strong desire for at least one more guy on offense. Just a little more insurance.
This is the Bernie Wlliams thing again.This guys are past there prime and want as much as they use to be.Can’t wait till Jeter’s contract is up for him to be asking for $18 million a year.
MO is the only player on this team to deserve he’s money.Pettitte deserves to be back but $16 million for what he showed last year is not good.Maybe if he had some PED then I’ll give him $16 million.
I earlier suggested Cashman was going to meet Peavy. Wrong again. If he is meeting Pettitte, I can’t foresee and agreemant not being reached unless Cashman is going to show to the world he tried before he moves on. He will have to move from $10M, i expect.
Andy was a main reason the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs. $10 mill is being generous. He only deserves like $8 mill. He will be the highest paid #5 pitcher in baseball.
Andy better come back and end on a good note. I know Andy is better then that record last year. Take the money and be happy. I doubt anyone else will pay anything near that for him.
CC
Wang
Burnett
Andy/Sheets/Lowe
Joba
.
LF Damon
CF ANOTHER TRADE
RF Nady
3b AROD
ss Jeter
2b CANO
1b TEX
C Posada
.
Dreamin’ I am….DREAMIN !!!
.
They should agree to a one year deal for $12 million. That’s reasonable.
“My tops would be 13mil, giving him credit for his years of service on 4 World Championship teams.”
I think the last several years at $16M covered that ‘loyalty’.
we’re even now and $10M is a great deal.
Seriously though are you really trying to tell me that teams value Lowe that much more over Pettitte?
Pettitte will get his money from somebody. I’d be willing to wager that the Mets would take Andy and offer him a two year deal. Andy is only 1 year older than a guy who could get 60 million over four years and they’re arguably the same pitcher.
Am I missing something here
Forget showing Cash the love, how ’bout the fans and the franchise? He voluntarily left town once…but we forgave. He splits now and he’s off the Christmas card list for good.
I heard last night Burnett may decide today. Do you all think Cashman’s absence means it won’t be today with the Yanks?
At most, 13m for Pettite, IMO. Take it or leave it. He’d practically be the 4th, maybe even 5th starter, so that seems fair. I don’t think he can get more than that anywhere else.
“Am I missing something here”
Nope, I think you are right.
The reason the perception is so different for both pitchers is because Andy is coming off a bad season and Lowe is coming off a good season. Also, I think a lot of people think of Andy as an older guy then he really is because he’s talked a lot about retiring over the past few years.
That’s what is out there Ray. He went to LA (more accurately, his agents talked to the Dodgers) and that was teh offer they got back. He turned it down.
He has made it clear he only wants to play for one more year. To that end, teams aren’t going to pay a premium for him. Especially with the way he ended last year.
One other point. When he takes a team physical, some teams won’t pass him because of his elbow.
He doesn’t even want to know the results of his physicals with the Yankees the past couple of years with regard to his elbow. He knows the tread is off that tire. He pitches with a lot of pain.
Right now, Burnett and Lowe are more sure things than Pettitte.
People keep talking about Burnett’s injury history. IIRC, he has made as many or more starts than Wang the past 4 years.
He is also much healthier (as is Lowe) than Andy right now.
A lot of miles on Andy’s arm. For the Yankees, they know how to manage him. Other teams? Not so much.
That’s why he is so comfortable in NY.
At this point though, comfort has a price.
10 million ain’t chump change. Especially, to be a #4 starter.
How many #4 starters are making 10 million dollars in the game right now?
Take the money Andy, and finish up where you started. It would be the perfect way to go out.
I don’t think they need to lowball Andy so much. Offer $12M and be done with it. Moose resigned for $11M, account for inflation and what not. Now before people start flaming me, Moose had a horrible first year of his extension. We also need to pay a slight premium for the shorter contract.
Please don’t push Andy away with a Torre offer.
I love andy as much as any yankee fan does…but 16 million for a close to washed up, ouch my elbow hurts and i can throw my cutter today, pitcher is too much. Enough with the sentimental value..
No more than 10M Remember he left us once for Houston
***Quick Poll***
Which would you rather have – Sheets @ 30MM/2 years or Pettitte at 12/1?
We need 1 more bat!
Guys its time to let Andy walk. 4.54 ERA last year and an ERA over 4 for the past 3 years. Unless hes gonna start ripping the HGH again, no thanks.
Sheets and his 3.09 ERA
Sheets
I want Andy since I still love the guy. He owes the Yankees and should take the 10 million and stop crying about it.
“Andy was a main reason the Yankees didn’t make the playoffs.”
This is probably the most incorrect statements I’ve seen here this year.
I dont see how Andy at $10 mil is a problem. Even if he isnt effective or someone goes down, we would have Hughes at AAA while he’s getting his innings and arm strength.
In the past two years Pettitte 1 1/2 good seasons (including a stud playoff performance) and 1/2 bad season. It’s public knowledge that the bad season was because of a sore shoulder that has been proven to be nothing more than a sore shoulder. If he hit the DL last year and let it rest he probably would have had a much better year. But the Yanks werent in any position for that to happen and he pitched through it. And because of that, because of a bad 1/2 of a season, most Yankee fans are ready to say see ya later to him. I guess I’m crazy. But I would much rather overpay Pettitte for 1 year then overpay someone like Lowe for 4 or sheets for 2 or 3. I trust Andy a hell of a lot more than those guys…even more than Burnett.
The mitchell report and his elbow issues are probably scaring away suitors.
Lowe’s ERA was also almost 1.5 runs lower.
Most of them also probably assume that he won’t go anywhere else but the Yankees so they are not even trying.
Frits-
Why try to go longer then 1 year with one of these guys when Phil will be ready then?
“Moose resigned for $11M, account for inflation and what not.”
so offer him $9 because of the market deflation?
OMG, Steve. I hardly ever call out people, but your statement about Pettitte being the reason we missed the playoffs is too much.
Wang, Posada, Matsui, Joba, and I’m probably missing somebody else, all missed significant time this past season. The offense didn’t do its share either.
You’d be correct to say that Andy’s not as dominant as he used to be, that he’s older, you know real stuff. But to lay ‘08 at his feet especially after he gutted through that last game at the stadium with a burnt shoulder. OMG.
Andy wouldn’t have shoulder issues if he were still using HGH.
Funny, I don’t see Cashman pinching pennies when he is planning to give Burnett close to $100 million or 37 yr old Lowe a 4 yr deal.
He left us once before because George never liked him and wanted nothing to do with signing him until he realized that he was actually leaving. Lets not forget that he turned down a heck of a lot of money back then from the Red Sox. A lot of people are down on him because of the HGH and I can understand that, but this guy loves being a Yankee and you can do a hell of a lot worse than having him as your #4 starter.
“Which would you rather have – Sheets @ 30MM/2 years or Pettitte at 12/1?”
You cant compare the two. Andy’s role is an innings eater next year. Its Lowe or Andy and Burnett or Sheets.
bomber 99, both of those pitchers were good last year
I love Andy Pettitte but he certainly should not get anywhere close to the $16 million he got last year.
Remember that going into ‘08, Pettitte was considered the #2 starter. $16 million is reasonable for a #2. Next year he will be the #4 starter in the rotation, so it’s reasonable that he should take a paycut. 10-12 million for a #4 is very generous. Moose made $11 million last year and won 20 games.
“Seriously though are you really trying to tell me that teams value Lowe that much more over Pettitte? ”
Adjusting for defense and stadium Lowe was the 10th most effective pitcher in baseball last year.
Pettite was 30th.
Lowe’s isn’t a guy with great stuff but he’s a ground ball machine (more than wang), gives up no home runs, and doesn’t walk anyone.
People are selling Lowe short.
Over the past several years he’s been healthier and more consistent than pettite.
The Pettite of 2007 was 4 wins above replacement and thus worth $22M. The pettittie of 2008 was 1.5 wins above replacement and thus worth $7.5M.
That’s the crux of the problem between andy and the yankees.
Andy sees himself as being the same pitcher he was in 2007 – he had a sore shoulder and pitched through it for the team.
The yankees value him as the 2008 pettitte.
I hope this gets settled. It would be silly for Andy to somehow not come back. The yanks need him and he wants to come back and pitch in the new stadium. He could be part of a special rotation and a good team.
Just get it done.
I’ll be crushed if Andy doesn’t come back..
I hope Cash treats him well.
Burnett will be a bust. The second coming of Pavano. I rather see Alfredo Aeceves get a chance to start over Burnett.
“Lowe’s ERA was also almost 1.5 runs lower.”
Yes because he pitches in the NL, which everyone knows doesn’t have the caliber of hitters that the AL does.
watch out cashman! andy’s feelings might get hurt!
“Funny, I don’t see Cashman pinching pennies when he is planning to give Burnett close to $100 million or 37 yr old Lowe a 4 yr deal.”
yeah, because there is a market for those guys and they are competing with other offers from other teams.
the competing offers for Andy, if any, are prob 1yr/$6-8M
so in essence, they are giving Andy a better offer than Burnett or Lowe.
Sigh. Lowe pitched in the worst division in all of baseball. In the NL.
Boston Dave,
The major free agent pitcher I’ve seen sign at a deflated price is K-rod. And that’s because his market was deflated due to the fact that he’s overrated and there were 3 other closers available.
Id take Hughes over Andy as our 4th starter.
Pettitte was overpaid the last 2 years. He got $16m when he should of got $12m. So he has an extra $8m..He doesnt need to be overpaid anymore.
On ESPN a despondent Peter Gammons (Baghdad Bob) says AJ will “end up with the Yankees.”
oldscut – because sheets won’t take a 1 year deal, and i was trying to come up with a realistic scenario in order to see what most people would want.
Give Andy some easily reachable incentives and get this done.
Groundhog’s day. We’ve had this conversation. No one’s saying give Andy $16M, but $10M is too low.
Give the guy one last year @ $12M. Don’t plead poverty after giving CC $161M.
“On ESPN a despondent Peter Gammons (Baghdad Bob) says AJ will “end up with the Yankees.””
In that case, to me it seems pretty reasonable to go after Andy. Sheets does have that injured history.
pat
December 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Cash is racking up the frequent flyer miles this week. A free RT ticket is 25,000 miles. How many miles do you need to redeem for a CF?
————————————————————
I’ll bet that Cashman called his good friend, Larry Luccino and asked to borrow his plane.
Don’t know if it’s true but my Mariner’s cyberpal just told me the Yankees signed Cameron.
If so, I’m down with it.
COME ON AJ AND BEN SHEETS!!!!!
Brian Cashman, you have my undying respect. It’s not my money, and I believe you’ve done what you can to help the team. If you DIDN’T sign big names, you’d have whiney babies crying about that too. So you will always be damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I loved Pete’s comment about Arod. It’s kind of the same thing. If Arod discovered the cure for cancer, he’d be trashed for not discovering the cure for other diseases also.
And so it goes with our GM.
GO YANKEES!
THANKS SANTA!!!
“The major free agent pitcher I’ve seen sign at a deflated price is K-rod. And that’s because his market was deflated due to the fact that he’s overrated and there were 3 other closers available.”
I know but all of these offers are based on the market for the player involved. For Andy, the Yankees are giving him an offer above market. Surely he realizes he is not a $16M pitcher anymore. I don’t blame him for trying to get as much as possible. But he needs to see the writing on the wall before he loses his best chance at ring #5.
About Pettitte – I’ve been on record as not even wanting him back so the fact that his overbloated salary may be cut (he sure didn’t earn 16 mil last year) doesn’t trouble me in the least.
Cashman’t not flying down to see Andy to offer him a take it or leave offer of $10M. He’s going down there to get it done.
Now that the Mets have Putz, Krod is the 3rd best closer in NY.
Burnett is a done deal. Andy is an honorable man that made a mistake with the HGH and fessed up to it. Our rotation is set, we REALLY go ALL IN when we get a REAL CF and a REAL 1B. What we have right now at those 2 positions is very weak. Don’t get me wrong, we can still win it all with what we have….but fill those 2 spots with an UPGRADE over CAMERON and the Tex-Man….and the Yankee Haters won’t have enough hours in the day to complain about us.
“The Pettite of 2007 was 4 wins above replacement and thus worth $22M. The pettittie of 2008 was 1.5 wins above replacement and thus worth $7.5M.”
Well, if he has a 67% chance of being the 2008 Andy and a 33% chance of being the 2007 Andy, he’s still worth more than $10MM.
I think some team will clearly be willing to go north of $10MM. The question is what discount Andy will take to come back to the Yanks.
Id say right now Andy is at as much of a risk for injury as Sheets.
Taking fan emotion out of it, don’t compare Burnett with Pettitte.
They are on two different stratosphere’s as pitchers at this point in their respective careers.
CB’s analysis re: Pettitte vs. Lowe is spot on.
This isn’t complicated. Play your last year for 10 million on the team you want to play with, as a #4 starter, with the possibility of winning another ring, retire, or shop your services in an attempt to get more money. Which, you won’t get.
Those are the options. They Yankees don’t owe him anything else. They have given him enough “award money” for being a good guy. They also backed him last year when he blindsided them on the HGH stuff.
He has said all along he wants to be back. Now, its time to find out if that’s true or not.
I really want to see Andy back next season.
mel
Do you have a soft spot for Andy? I’ve never seen you defend a player from insane accusations.
gayle
December 11th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
“Bob Kalpisch needs to be taken to task before he goes on national radio he needs to have his facts correct. he is on with Charlie Steiner on XM175 right now and just said that the seats in Yankee stadium are outrageously priced that the bleacher tickets are $100 this is 100 per cent not true. Yes we all know that some of the seats are way overpriced but the bleachers are not 100 per ticket.”
Sorry to respond to a post from 3 threads ago,but I heard the interview on my way home from work. Sad to say, what previously were the first 20 or so rows of Left Field, Left Center Field, Right Field, and Right Center field Bleacher seats in the old Stadium ($12 in ‘08)are now Premium seats that range in price from $100 to $75. The new Bleacher seats are located wayyyyyy in the back and will sell for $12. The Bleacher Creatures in right field are gonna need a bullhorn.
Like all partial plan Season Ticket holders, I have yet to receive my Relocation Plan.All I know is that my beloved Sec 2 Tier Reserved seats that I payed $18 for last year are now called “Terrace Suites” and sell for $75 per game. I’m actually dreading receiving my Relocation Plan. I’m confident we’re gonna get screwed.
Boston Dave,
check out my 4:43 post. I’m not trying to argue, but $10M is too low IMO.
A lot of people in here hate AJ but there was a report that a handful of Yankee players called him up and tried to talk him into signing with the bombers.
Sheets. Where was Pettitte’s loyalty when he exercised his one-sided option for $16m last year 3 days before the Mitchell report came out and he knew he was in it? This screwed up the Santana deal because it gave the Yankees an excuse for dropping out. And he was a huge reason why they missed the playoffs only 3 games behind the Sox.
Where was his loyalty 5 years ago when he walked? Either take the $10m, a ridiculous sum in this market, or take a walk.
While on paper and in theory I’d rather get both AJ and Sheets and let Andy go, I know that we’re going to need a guy like Andy in that locker room. When a starting pitcher starts to struggle, he’s the veteran who can help them through it. He can offer perspective about NY and the Yankees that I don’t think Wang or Joba could ever offer the other pitchers, whether they be CC or a kid from Scranton.
That said, if Sheets’ agents told Cashman they’d take 2 for 26 million with an option for the 3rd year, it’s tough. If Sheets is healthy enough to pitch he is a #1 and if he does his usual DL stints but still gives you 20+ starts you have the depth in the farm to fill in for him.
As for the money issue, Andy doesn’t owe the Yankees anything and the Yankees don’t owe him anything. He deserves fair market value.
I just don’t see how Lowe is a $6 million better than Pettitte. Lowe pitched in a pitchers park and in the NL. Andy pitched in the Al East against the best offenses in the game.
If the Yankees are intent on cutting his salary 12 million is a fine compromise.
Didn’t George S all but ship Andy out to Philly once? In any event I read somewhere today that an “unnamed” Yankee “official” said they loved Andy but in reality he is a 8 Mil pitcher now and they offered 10 mil because the loved him. Sounds bout right to me. All things considered, Any, Giambi, and Bobby A all want to stay but they all don’t realize the market has changed and unless you are elite, you are gonna get about half of what you used to now.
Wave,
The Hendricks Brothers (his agents) have yet to get any offers for him above 8 million.
Perhaps, if he turns down the Yankees, they believe the offers will rise. I’m not so sure.
Especially, since 2009 is his last year.
Does he really want to start over someplace else over a couple of million bucks? He’s made over 100 million dollars in his career.
Gotta think that if he really wants to come back, he will take the 10 million.
If he wants to be treated like a regular free agent, then there are better alternatives.
Trisha,
Cameron can’t be bought. He’s not a free agent. They are talking about acquiring him from Milwaukee for Melky.
The deal hit a snag and is on hold right now.
standard bozo reactions.. they overpay for player A so what the heck overpay for player B..
Idiots it does not work that way…Everyone is so interested in spendin and overspending the Yanks money, when they try to get fair market then the Yanks are being penny pincher fools..
The Yanks did not pay $61 mill more then the Brewers for CC.. FIrst of all they gave him 2 more years.. They are paying $3 mill. more a year..
Again morons, the yanks have a money tree in the backyard and can just overpay every piece of crap(Burnett)….
I’m reading rumors that if the Yanks don’t get Tex they might go after Prince Fielder! I’d rather have Tex!
I say it’s time to let Andy go. He’s done!
Sheets is much more interesting in the rotation (can be a #1).
CC – #1a
Wang – #1b
Burnett – #1c
Sheets – #1d
Joba – #1e
Hughes – #2
Will everyone please take off your Andy Pettitte glasses from 5 years ago.
The only way Ill take an aged Mike Cameron is if they take a useless Kei Igawa
“I want to see who is the highest bidder. Gas is up and so am I,” Ramirez said at the time
but now gas is down and so are the offers
Steve is right about Andy. His numbers with RISP were atrocious and his OBP is worse.
Andy is not enough to replace Giambi and Abreu.
pat,
:sheepish grin:
Yes, I do. He’s a good guy despite certain transgressions. 1 more year gets us stability and flexibility. He’s an innings eater and I would take him for 1 year over Lowe or Garland.
He came back 2 years ago when we needed him. If he wants to play in the NYS, I would try my best to honor that wish. I wouldn’t expect him to grovel and beg to do it. He’s built up enough goodwill for us to let him do play one last year with some dignity.
I think he’d rather have the extra $2M rather than a home visit from Cashman.
Philadelphia’s ace Cole Hamels called the Mets “choke artists” in an interview on WFAN with Evan Roberts and Joe Benigno.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....143724.htm
joba can go back to setup man yanks will have 7 starting pitchers cc, aj, petite , wang, hughs, kennedy ,joba will be ready for when mariano retires
Burnett is insanely overrated on this board. He has nasty stuff, no doubt about it. But what has he ever done with it? Yeah, I know, he’s killed the Yanks and pitched well against the Sox. What about the other 25 games a year? The Yankees players want him because all they’ve seen is what he’s done to them. If they sign him I will surely be rooting for him….but he’ll be on the DL half the time he’s here. We’ve all seen this before. A player puts up big numbers in his contract year and never comes close to hitting them again. The funny thing here is that he didnt even put up big numbers last year. He was an average pitcher.
Mike
December 11th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
The only way Ill take an aged Mike Cameron is if they take a useless Kei Igawa
I have a better idea. Go with Gardner & Melky and give them Igawa for nothing.
stuart, good to see you posting again. You missed hitting the ’stupid/idiots/morons’ trifecta, but ‘bozo’ is a good substitute.
“Philadelphia’s ace Cole Hamels called the Mets “choke artists” in an interview on WFAN with Evan Roberts and Joe Benigno.”
Who cares?
Wow. I’ve never been called a bozo, idiot, and a moron before.
I hope this is like Mo, Andy is just looking for the best possible deal from the
Yanks.
People are making way too much of this switching between the AL and the NL.
Yes there’s a difference. For guys with marginal stuff it can go very badly.
But that’s not Lowe. He doesn’t have marginal stuff. He’s a good pitcher.
In general you can tack on .5 to a pitcher’s era when they switch leagues. If you want to go crazy increase that standard increase by 20% and it becomes .6.
It’s generally pitchers who give up more fly balls and don’t strike guys out who are most prone to having trouble switching leagues.
How badly can ground balls possibly hurt you? How many are really stung down the line for extra base hits.
60-65% of all Lowe’s contact results in ground balls. He gives up one of the lowest rates of Home runs in all of baseball.
His HR rate has been the same over his career whether he was pitching in the AL in the bandbox that is Fenway or at the pitchers park that is chavez ravine.
If you’re giving up ground ball after ground ball you are going to be effective.
Country your right. Will everyone please take your officially licensed limited edition contract year AJ Burnett glasses off?
Drive 4-5, I saw that, too. My plan was Tier reserve, section 9, $27/ticket. I’m terrified to see what they consider to be “comparable.”
the yanks can equalixe sox getting tex if they can get prince fielder
CBSsportsline is reporting that the Cameron deal is dead. I, for one, am happy with this news. I don’t think we need an aging player who was only a so-so player when he was younger. His numbers have looked good some years, but he always Ks too much. He is the typical pound the mediocre pitcher, can’t touch the good ones.
SJ44, CB,
You guys have convinced me that Andy probably isn’t valued as highly as Lowe is, but I’m still shocked about it.
Maybe it’s my Yankee colored glasses but I just can’t believe that Lowe is valued at 52 million more dollars than Pettitte.
**JOBA IS A STARTER**
Joba coming up soon with Kay if anyone wants to listen
Ray could I possibly interest you in a pair of officially licensed limited edition contract year AJ Burnett glasses?
Drive-
I guess the problem I have is that he said bleachers seats are $100 which is not true bleacher seats are the sameprice they were last year. it just gives the wrong impression. i believe if you actually look at where the bleachers are in the new stadium they are the same distance at least hte left field ones as there is no monument park anymore and it looks like where monument park once was is where they added the closer seats which are only available for full, 41or 21 game plans.
I spoke to the ticket office today an partial relocation plans hopefully will go out in the next few weeks it will be interesting to see where I get placed as my seats are no longer an option as they have been delegated to full season ticket holders ONLY. my seats will actually go down in price so I am happy with that. I have decided to take whatever I get and work my way towards what i want lol.
Also one of the things rf bleacher people now have is the bullpen which they didnt have before so they will be able to see warmup etc etc.
I am bummed that this year they are not doing Holiday Packs like they did last year but they cant because they don’t know at this point what seats are even available for them.
I was lucky enough to be able to go to both opening day and old timers day because of it.
Sorry to respond to a post from 3 threads ago,but I heard the interview on my way home from work. Sad to say, what previously were the first 20 or so rows of Left Field, Left Center Field, Right Field, and Right Center field Bleacher seats in the old Stadium ($12 in ‘08)are now Premium seats that range in price from $100 to $75. The new Bleacher seats are located wayyyyyy in the back and will sell for $12. The Bleacher Creatures in right field are gonna need a bullhorn.
Like all partial plan Season Ticket holders, I have yet to receive my Relocation Plan.All I know is that my beloved Sec 2 Tier Reserved seats that I payed $18 for last year are now called “Terrace Suites” and sell for $75 per game. I’m actually dreading receiving my Relocation Plan. I’m confident we’re gonna get screwed. guess the problew
Why would we want to trade prospects for a tremendously out of shape 1B who strikes out 150 times a year, when we can get Tex for money?
“Will everyone please take off your Andy Pettitte glasses from 5 years ago.”
Was Andy’s performance in the now infamous bug game 5 years ago? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
“People are making way too much of this switching between the AL and the NL.”
I disagree. Knowing that the other team’s #9 guy can’t hit worth a lick makes a difference.
Prince Fielder = DH in the American League.
Andy also pitches in a pitchers ballpark. Especially for lefthanders.
We all get attached to players. That’s natural.
That’s why I think Cash is going to Texas to talk face to face with Andy. That’s a sign of the kind of respect they have for him because, I assure you, GM’s don’t do face to face meetings with every player they deal with.
Hopefully, they work things out. I would love to see Andy finish his career as a Yankee.
But, it has to work for both sides. If it doesn’t, part friends and move on.
“JOBA IS A STARTER”
i just realized how much Francessa has brainwashed my father. he lives too far to get NY radio, only uses the internet for email, and watches Francessa on YES because it’s easy i guess. i actually heard “joba should be in the bullpen” come from him on the phone today.
when i asked if he’d rather joba pitch 70 innings or 200 innings for the team, he said he never thought of it that way
stop brainwashing my dad you jerk!
Let’s go Cash, sign #46 up!
It should be a very quick meeting between Cashman and Pettitte. $10 million, take it or leave it. I highly doubt anyone would offer him more, nor does he deserve more. He is not the future; he is a one-year stopgap.
Damn Laura! That was a zinger. So your saying you want Andy back because he pitched 6.1 good innings in a playoff game against the Indians 2 years ago? Your right lets give him eleventy billion dollars.
saucY, if your dad says anything about McCluth or Arroyo during the holidays, you might have to set up an intervention.
ray,
Lowe isn’t anything special or flashy but the thing with him is that he just has an astonishing ability to produce ground balls.
The only guy better in baseball is Webb. Lowe produces more grounders than Wang or Halladay.
Ground balls can only hurt you so much as long as you don’t walk people. Which Lowe doesn’t.
And Lowe has freakishly good health. He never misses a start. He throws 180 innings + a year.
He’s only had 2 real bad years in his career which were his last two in boston. But supposedly his personal life was completely out of control and that’s changed now.
Do this – go take a look at what Lowe did in 2001 and 2002. He was pitching in Fenway park during one of the largest explosions of offense in the history of the game. Look at his era, adjusted era and his home run rates. It takes tremendous talent to do that.
Now he might not be quite that good anymore but he’s still effective.
At their peak performance Pettitte and Lowe are very similar.
But Andy may be farther from his peak than Lowe is.
There’s just much more uncertainty as to what Pettitte’s level of performance will be next years. There’s much more variance in his expected performance than there is with Lowe’s even accounting for the switch of leagues.
My personal hope is that they reach a compromise with Andy P at around the 12.5 mark. They’ve both (the team and Pettitte) have put in their time with each other. With Andy, you really do know what you’re going to get. If he in fact pitched while hurting (short of injury, but still barely bareable) at the end of last season, then you’ve got to take that into account when looking at his final numbers. He’s a gamer. He’s a Yankee. He gives innings and 110% every single time out there. He’s an excellent teammate. He’s worth more risk than any of the other guys out there. And if they’re talking about 4 years at, what, 14 million for Lowe, who is at about the same age as Andy, then I really, really don’t see why they can’t pony up another 2-3 million for Pettitte.
Now, also one has to remember that the characterization of this visit as an ultimatum-bearing one is Pete’s. It may not be a “take it or leave it” conversation. It may be a negotiation, or it may be a “Andy, here’s the situation” visit. But I believe it is of the sort that they need a definitive answer from him so they know how to go forward with AJ/Lowe/Sheets/whoever, and how high they can go in negotiations with any of those.
I seriously don’t want to see an unhappy ending here. It was difficult enough with Bernie; I don’t want it to happen with Andy. I know that’s the emotions talking, but Pettitte’s been with us for a long time – and even when he went to Houston, I religiously followed his starts as well as a person can from afar. He’s not perfect, I know that. I’d like him to retire voluntarily when the time comes, rather than be forced out. And, I’d also argue that, unlike Bernie, he still has another year in him. I think that year is worth up to $13 million.
Lowe is so overvalued. He’ll get lit up in the AL east. Forget Cameron he’s to old. He’ll miss at least 30 games due to injuries. Let’s trade for Dejesus or Matt Kemp.
“Was Andy’s performance in the now infamous bug game 5 years ago? Yeah, I didn’t think so.”
If this basically is coming down to Pettitte or Lowe, you have to go for Andy hands down. You know he has an excellent work ethic, you know he can pitch in NY, and you know he can pitch in the AL East.
I’d trust Andy on the mound in a big game more than Lowe, and I’d be more comfortable expecting Andy to take the ball every 5th day than I would with Sheets.
If Andy comes close to the season he had last year, he’ll be doing far above what any other team is getting out of their 4th or 5th starter.
I don’t understand Burnett at all. Forget my feelings on him, look at their rotation. The whole reason we didn’t sign Santana was because we wanted to develop our prospects. Signing Burnett to a 5 year deal means that our top 3 will be locked in long term (assuming/hoping Wang gets locked up). Signing Sheets to 1 or 2 years would allow us to not rush the young guys, drop Chamberlain to the 5th spot to limit his innings.
In 2010 you’d have a top 3 of Sabathia, Wang, and Chamberlain with two spots open for Hughes, Kennedy or any other prospect.
pettitte has been overpaid for years.
pettitte took less from houston & need to take less now.
his numbers do not warrant 16 million a year.
becket & dicek make less & he is not even close to them.
get over the soft spot for him.
Why do you guys love me? I’m a washed up overpaid former user!
Why do we want old position players. I don’t know what was more exciting to watch last year the grass grow or our defense field.
I’m sure Cash wants Andy back, and not just for the sentimentality of it.
Getting a veteran lefty on a one-year deal, for that money, isn’t horrible. Plus, Cash has Hughes, Aceves, Geise, maybe IPK if he isn’t dealt, waiting if Andy can’t finish it out, because of his shoulder, elbow, old age, whatever. Then, next year move on to Phil Hughes right out of the gate.
That’s much better than spending money and multi-years, thereby blocking Hughes, on Lowe, Sheets (another injury risk), Garland, or whomever.
Some of you folks really need to start taking down your Pettitte shrines. The desire and willingness to pay for past performance is astounding. This team has let the successes from ‘96 – ‘00 cloud its decision making for too long.
Thats the problem with you Yankees fans you love has beens like me.
mel
December 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Wow. I’ve never been called a bozo, idiot, and a moron before.
————————————————————
Yes, but, he’s losing his touch. It took 83 words to get it all in.
I think Cash and the the GM of the Brewers are playing chicken. It makes too much sense for them to deal Cameron, and we need him. They’re playing chicken over the money. And maybe Melvin is ticked that he’s losing CC over something he can’t control, because his $$$ is limited. If he’s smart, though, he will realize you can’t let emotions rule your decision-making. That’s how you make poor decisions.
(JUNE 2009)OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS! ANDY PETTITTE IS IN GEORGES BOX!
Lowe would stink back in the AL East. Ben Sheets or Andy thats it.
could someone tell me how Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce makes sense? If that’s the case, we could had gave the Tigers Igawa.
Whoever said that we’re starting to look like the Toronto Blue Jays – great pitching, weak offense – I think is correct. The best pitching staff in the world will not overcompensate for a lineup that is losing Giambi and Abreu: that right now might include below average offensive players like Swisher and Gardner/Cameron as everyday players; and is counting on huge comebacks by Cano, Posada and Matsui. Someone said they see us scoring 800-840 runs, “which should be enough.” I don’t think so, not with that lineup.
Really, the Blue Jays? A team with Arod, Jeter, Damon, Cano, Matsui and Posada can’t score runs? Please, that’s not even remotely accurate.
Lowe has 20-20 BB-K ratio at Yankee Stadium. AL lineups are patient. He’s 36 and will be 40 at the end of the 4-year deal. We have a pipeline of young, promising pitchers we’ve stockpiled, who don’t deserve to have their way blocked by middle-aged mediocrity. And if the guy breaks down the Yankees, having invested in him long-term, will continue to throw him out there while younger, worthier arms fust in the minors.
Next.
SJ –
that Wang, Burnett comparison is beneath you.
Wang missed 18 starts last season because of a foot injury, and 2005 was his majors debut, with only 17 starts (though he missed a few with tendonitis as I recall).
Burnett’s injuries have mostly been arm related, and your 4 season interval manages to squeeze in the only 2 seasons of his career – out of 9, excluding his 7 start ‘99 debut – where he made 30 or more starts. Each season he’s thrown 200 innings (2002 and 2005) he missed significant time in the following 2 seasons. 2008 is his 3rd time with 200+ and the most in his career.
I like AJ’s stuff and talent, but I’d be inclined to go for the shorter and cheaper route with Sheets now that CC is also locked up for so long. Of course that’s completely dependant on a clean bill of health on Ben, who also has a checkered injury history but has topped 30 starts 4 times in his 7 years, excluding his debut season (where he made 25 starts).
Guess I see it as risk management. Plus if the system has so many good pitching prospects, where will they get their shot with a rotation topped by CC, AJ, Wang, and Joba, plus Hughes in the wings? Brackman, Garcia, and Betances aren’t 5 years away, and they aren’t the only hopefuls.
Yes, things change and depth is a good thing, but those first 3 guys are or are going to shortly be pricey. I’d rather take my chances on the shorter term guy and hope another of our kids develops in the meantime. There will always be other choices on the FA market if necessary.
It’s very difficult to analyze how Pettitte slots in and for how much without knowing the bigger picture.
If Cashman thinks he’s got AJ, and the question is the 5th starter, you analyze Pettitte and Lowe one way. Lowe is IMO clearly the better pitcher right now, but he’s going to cost more and have a longer contract. For a pitcher who may or may not be in the playoff rotation if we get there. So maybe you’d rather have Pettitte for $10MM for one year and see what happens down the road.
But if the Yanks aren’t going to get AJ, and the question is the fourth starter slot, all of a sudden Lowe looks a lot more attractive.
Plus, you have to consider where Sheets fits in.
It may be that if the Yanks can get Pettitte for $10MM, they are willing to take the first of AJ/Lowe/Sheets across the finish line, but if they can’t, then all bets are off.
SJ,
what’s your take on the Giants’ OF Nate Schierholtz? decent bat, with a solid glove.
“It makes too much sense for them to deal Cameron, and we need him.”
We need him for what exactly?? He’s just another over-the-hill outfielder who won’t even hit .250. We can get that from Gardner at 1/20th the cost. Where is the logic?
Andy for one year at $12 million is a no-brainer. Good to have one of our veteran starters on short deal. Up until August 1 of last year he was still pretty much the same big-game pitcher he’s always been.
Many debates on this saite seem to pit those who pride themselves on dispassionate rational analysis vs those who factor in the intangibles and the intuitive. So let me cast my lot with the latter in this case — bad kharma to short-change Andy this year.
SJ, thanks for that info re: Cameron.
“A lot of people in here hate AJ but there was a report that a handful of Yankee players called him up and tried to talk him into signing with the bombers.”
Al, I LOVE AJ. I am deleriously happy about that potential signing. I wanted him in pinstripes since last season and I feel he is going to be awesome for us.
And laugh at me if you will but there is always some positive correlation to my “gut feelings.” Some people goof on me when I refer to my gut feelings but dammit they’ve been right on.
Okay, so maybe my timing might be a little off – I said I had a gut feeling that CC would sign within several days of when I said it, and it’s been more than several days. But he did sign. Maybe he had decided during the period of time I picked up and he just didn’t make it official until he did.
Anyway, I have such a strong feeling that AJ is going to be magnificent for us that I have to believe it is right. I do believe it is right.
So I don’t care if people hate AJ and neither should you. Who cares? All we need to care about is that he produces for the Yankees if the Yankees do land him.
Sorry guys our farm system is not that good.
I thought the Brewers were mad at the Yanks for their CC offer? (And that they weren’t going to go trade their CF to them)?
So they actually aren’t mad? hmm…
As to the Melky/Cameron Pettite/Lowe controversies… While I might have a very slight preference for Melky and Pettite, I really don’t think it matters either way, and I think that to think it does matter either way is to have “Yankee colored glasses.”
Joe from LI -
I think the rest of the baseball world is simply peeved at the Yankees for spending so much money on Sabathia – not only the final contract offer, but the initial blow-everyone-else-out-of-the-water offer. All I heard on radio today was how irresponsible it was of the Yankees, how everyone was rolling their eyes at the Yankees; how they just ignored the commissioner’s cautions about the economy and how it would look if they spent too much money, etc. Forget that it’s their own money and that there is no salary cap and that every other team was free to do this. Whatever. So, the Milwaukee guy just didn’t like that the Yankees were balking at paying all of Cameron’s contract given the contracts they’ve been offering lately.
I imagine it will work out, but if it doesn’t, so be it.
What prospect is primed for a “break-out” season in the minors (No Brackman allowed).
Ryan Leaf was a cant miss prospect(different sport)
FWIW this is what my Mariner’s friend emailed about Cameron. (She thought we had landed him.)
“I just heard that you got Cammy! I can’t say that I’ve followed him closely since he’s been in the NL, but if he’s anything like he was in Seattle, you can’t help but love him: awesome defense and an infectious smile that just exudes joy for the game. Unfortunately, his bat was never quite the same after he hit those 4 homeruns in one game in Chicago several years ago. I will seriously cheer for him even though he wears pinstripes!”
“saucY, if your dad says anything about McCluth or Arroyo during the holidays, you might have to set up an intervention.”
lol nick. if that happens, i will turn into the grinch that stole the access card out of his dad’s directv reciever!
“bad kharma to short-change Andy this year.”
Where in the world is this coming from?? Is Andy going to haunt the Yankees from his ranch? From his next reincarnation? Now we’re using karma to make our decisions.
It’s funny how quickly people forget what those games looked like last year in favor of statistics–now all the crying about losing Giambi’s production comes around, meanwhile during the season people were on a daily basis calling for him to be moved down in the lineup/benched and ripping him for being an absolute dog in situations with RISP/men on base.
But then again when people look at those 30 HRs and 90 RBIs in the winter, they forget about what the rest of his ABs looked like during the summer, while also assuming that subtracting them means the team won’t find other ways to score runs. So then it’s time to sign Manny or Teixeira. Can’t rely on finding other less-flashy, less-costly replacements and expect them to chip in with run production. You apparently have to count for every missing statistic from last year’s team. Amazing.
Wave,
I agree with the Analysis. If Cash tells Andy, “We CC done, AJ is coming, and with Wang and Chamberlain, we have 4 slots done. The last slot is worth X number of dollars. Are you in or out”?
If they don’t have AJ done, then its a different deal. Its actually a negotiation.
Something tells me they have AJ done and this is the “We have one slot available” meeting.
trisha – CC will opt to be a Yankee.
I am with you on AJ. I have watched him as a Blue Jay and he is a first class pitcher. Although he sometimes seems to need motivation; he will get lots of that as a Yankee.
Pettitte, on the other hand, needs to get over himself and take the Yankee offer.
“Where in the world is this coming from?? Is Andy going to haunt the Yankees from his ranch? From his next reincarnation? Now we’re using karma to make our decisions.”
I’ll go with reincarnation.
In his next life Andy will be a tree. Not just any tree mind you, but, the tree that will become the bat some Red Sox player uses to hit a game winning homerun against us.
The logic is that, while he’s past his prime, he still is a better offensive option than either Melky or Gardner.
I saw almost every game last season, on TV or in person.
Melky, after mid-May or so, was a complete disaster at the plate. Gardner, except for the last two weeks of the season, was a complete disaster, either striking out or hitting lazy fly balls. With no power.
Cameron’s OPS last year was about .800. Brett’s (and I hope he sticks on the team) was less than .600.
There’s the logic.
In his next life Andy will be a tree. Not just any tree mind you, but, the tree that will become the bat some Red Sox player uses to hit a game winning homerun against us.
————————————-
Hahahahahaa
Tom,
Zach McAllister. IMO, at this time next year, everyone will be talking about him as an “A” List pitching prospect.
Among position players: AJ and Montero. I think both those guys are the real deals and I think both will have big seasons in AAA and AA respectively, next year.
Trisha you can’t expect Cameron to be the same player that he was with Seattle.
“Is Andy going to haunt the Yankees from his ranch? ”
2004 ALCS = karma
Paul,
Why don’t you want pitching depth after what happened last year? In your worst case scenario, we’d have a gross surplus of talented major league ready pitching prospects. Those commodities are valuable whether you trade them or play them. I guess if you have an unmovable contact and a prospect waiting that you want to keep, you can always dump the major league starter to make room for the rookie. You might assume a financial loss on the trade but that’s more directly related to miscalculating when you signed the pitcher in the beginning.
The Yankees could lock up Wang and Joba for life and commit 5 years to AJ Burnett. That leaves Pettitte and CC’s spot. Pettitte would be a 1 year deal and Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves would take his place. The leftovers are insurance or trade bait so hopefully all 3 will be capable of starting on a major league team. Then we have CC Sabathia locked up for a minimum of three years. Perhaps they’re estimating the ETA of Brackman and/or Betances at 3 years.
In a perfect world, Wang, CC, Joba, Hughes and Burnett give us 5 good years allowing us to trade our surplus pitching prospects in order to fill other areas of need such as major league-ready middle infielders.
I hope every signee and farmhand excels and if not, we’ll have more than enough insurance.
Paul,
Why don’t you want pitching depth after what happened last year? In your worst case scenario, we’d have a gross surplus of talented major league ready pitching prospects. Those commodities are valuable whether you trade them or play them. I guess if you have an unmovable contact and a prospect waiting that you want to keep, you can always dump the major league starter to make room for the rookie. You might assume a financial loss on the trade but that’s more directly related to miscalculating when you signed the pitcher in the beginning.
The Yankees could lock up Wang and Joba for life and commit 5 years to AJ Burnett. That leaves Pettitte and CC’s spot. Pettitte would be a 1 year deal and Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves would take his place. The leftovers are insurance or trade bait so hopefully all 3 will be capable of starting on a major league team. Then we have CC Sabathia locked up for a minimum of three years. Perhaps they’re estimating the ETA of Brackman and/or Betances at 3 years.
In a perfect world, Wang, CC, Joba, Hughes and Burnett give us 5 good years allowing us to trade our surplus pitching prospects in order to fill other areas of need such as major league-ready middle infielders.
I hope every signee and farmhand excels and if not, we’ll have more than enough insurance.
Six CF’s in the game last year had an OPS of .800 or more. Mike Cameron was one of them.
Let’s not talk like the guy can’t play a lick anymore. The numbers suggest otherwise.
Although, at least right now, that deal looks dead.
Please no AJ Burnett
Sorry, Joe, that isn’t worth $10 million. But I’m glad to know that you’re exceptionally knowledgeable. Some of us have frankly had enough of watching the Yankees field the oldest team money can buy.
time to move on….give me O Perez over Andy at his time
CC
Wang
Burnett
O Perez
Hughes
Joba (8th inning RP)closer of the future
“But supposedly his personal life was completely out of control and that’s changed now.”
Lowe used to walk into bars we were at and flat out say “who is coming home with me tonight?” and girls would actually go. took anywhere from 30 seconds to 10 minutes. the bouncers hated him because he wouldnt wait in line or pay a cover (of course) and would just walk past everyone like he owned the place. whatever… but his personal life seemed to be going exactly the way he wanted it to go when he was in Boston. girls, girls, girls.
heck, he even tried to pick up a girl i was on a date with from the bullpen. yelled back to her in the bleachers. classy guy.
The only CF with higher OPS’s than Cameron were Hamilton, Sizemore, Beltran, Granderson, McClouth, and Hunter.
Last time I checked none of those players were available in a trade.
Cameron is an enormous upgrade over gardner. Not a small upgrade. Enormous.
if we get a few good pitchers from our farm to go with joba,if melancon,ajax,montero turn into good players along with hughes then our farm system is great.
there is no way to tell.
Switching gears for a second, after Hamels’ comments today, you gotta believe that there will be a brawl or two when the Mutts play PHI next season. I might have to tune in to those games.
“Sorry, Joe, that isn’t worth $10 million. But I’m glad to know that you’re exceptionally knowledgeable.”
Cameron projects to be 3 wins better than Brett Gardner next year.
For the yankees each marginal win is worth $5.5M.
That makes Cameron worth $16.5M in revenue to the yankees next year.
If you want to say maybe Cameron is only 2 games better than Gardner to be conservative that means that Cameron would be worth $11M in revenue.
$10M is a bargain.
“Cameron is an enormous upgrade over gardner.”
Stopgap, stopgap, stopgap. That’s all he would be. Just another temporary plug. No upside, no future. Just more decline. But heck, you folks love him.
Wakefield is taking $4M per, yet Pettitte cant stomach $10M?
Take it or leave it Andy. Im sure a combination of Aceves, Hughes, Kennedy could be sufficient at #5 when the top 4 is strong. Then you also consider Sheets, or someone like Penny
Andy at $10M sounds good and hopefully some of those makeable incentives could make it happen. One year? If Hughes can step up to the next level in a year, that could be good. He’d still be like 23 right? And not expensive. Yet.
Still, another starter would sure help a lot. Is the latest hype of the hour leaning towards AJ or Lowe?
Yes, the offense still needs work but if the rotation is giving up a run less per game that helps make that a less desperate situation. But stocking up on .250 hitters or DHs (or both) who are either nice guys or Manny is not my idea of adding the right kind of voltage to the lineup though.
Pettitte is being a baby. I hope Cashman reminds him that he had a 4.54 ERA last year.
NYYfaninlalaland
Plus if the system has so many good pitching prospects, where will they get their shot with a rotation topped by CC, AJ, Wang, and Joba, plus Hughes in the wings? Brackman, Garcia, and Betances aren’t 5 years away, and they aren’t the only hopefuls.
Yes, things change and depth is a good thing, but those first 3 guys are or are going to shortly be pricey. I’d rather take my chances on the shorter term guy and hope another of our kids develops in the meantime. There will always be other choices on the FA market if necessary.
——————————————————————–
People insisting we sign FA over-the-hill pitchers to multi-year deals remind me of a story I heard years ago.
When Igor Larionov came over from Russia to play for Detroit, his wife went on a shopping trip with fellow Wings wives. She went nuts, frantically throwing everything she could find – especially meat and vegetables – into her shopping cart.
The other wives tried to reason with her that the food would be there the following week when she ran out.
There’s a kind of soul deprivation of good pitching that has set in with Yankee fans, and its breaking down the pales and forts of reason.
Those fans would have us to gorge ourselves on “sure” “veteran” pitching depth, stymie the plan to finally use pitching we’ve developed in the system, and would not even entrust a fifth spot to the Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy/Garcia and possibly, Coke, group, apparently convinced they can’t deliver any quality innings.
Hamels was put on the spot and asked if the Mets choked. The Mets know they choked. what’s the big deal? Hamels was asked if they did, and he stated the obvious.
I kind of like Gardner in that he reminds me of Bartlett on the Rays. Speedy. Athletic. Weak bat but solid role player. I don’t think the stats tell the whole picture with players like Gardner. He can affect the psychology of the game with his presence, especially if he’s taking a big lead off one of the bases. I like his intangibles and I think Cameron profiles as a streaky player. Is Mike Cameron the type of player who will, as someone said earlier, ‘pound mediocre pitching’ and disappear against the more talented pitchers. Does his plus power and high K rate suggest that he swings for the fences and feasts on mistake pitches?
ZMAN7777
we are better with cameron. it is a fact not an opinion.
it is one year & if he gives us 2 more wins than melky & gardner it might be worth it at the end of the year when we finish 2 games back.
it is all about wins.
“Im sure a combination of Aceves, Hughes, Kennedy could be sufficient at #5 when the top 4 is strong. ”
Eric, I don’t disagree. I just would leave it at Aceves or Hughes.
If not three new FA pitchers, please Santa Claus bring us at least two of them plus Pettitte.
CB, I appreciate your comments regarding Lowe and the point that as an extreme GB pitcher moving from the pitchers paradise of the NL West to the pitchers nightmare of the AL east is not as problematic as it normally would be.
However, given the Yankees IF defense is at best average, IMHO, Lowe will be hurt significantly by this compared to his defense in LA. This is the main reason I’m not an advocate of Lowe.
How do you view this?
SJ44
December 11th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Tom,
Zach McAllister. IMO, at this time next year, everyone will be talking about him as an “A” List pitching prospect.
Among position players: AJ and Montero. I think both those guys are the real deals and I think both will have big seasons in AAA and AA respectively, next year.
———————————————————————-Everybody already IS talking up McAllister in those terms.
Just read PinstripesPlus
“Hamels was put on the spot and asked if the Mets choked. The Mets know they choked. what’s the big deal? Hamels was asked if they did, and he stated the obvious.”
Boston Dave, it’s one thing to know that you suck. It’s another thing when one of your main rivals tells the world that you suck. Hamels called them out on their own radio station. You don’t think he’s getting plunked next season when he’s up at the plate?
wakefields numbers are way better than andy’s & pettitte want’s 4 times as much.
wake had a 1.18 whip,2.28 BAA,27 less hits per innings pitched
Just got a text from ESPN Mobile that Bernie Williams is going to the play for Puerto Rico in the WBC.
SJ, that would cool. I have a couple of baseballs signed by McAllister from his days on the SI Yankees.
bru — There are a lot of players who would make the Yankees better. However, it’s not just about one or two extra wins in ‘09. It’s about an overall gameplan — a strategy to get younger and be more forward looking. This team seems to lack this. They’ve been simply plugging holes for too long.
“wake had a 1.18 whip,2.28 BAA,27 less hits per innings pitched”
Wake started pitching while Pettitte was still in the minors. your point?
Joe from Long Island
December 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
The logic is that, while he’s past his prime, he still is a better offensive option than either Melky or Gardner.
I saw almost every game last season, on TV or in person.
Melky, after mid-May or so, was a complete disaster at the plate. Gardner, except for the last two weeks of the season, was a complete disaster, either striking out or hitting lazy fly balls. With no power.
Cameron’s OPS last year was about .800. Brett’s (and I hope he sticks on the team) was less than .600.
There’s the logic.
———————————————-
He’s turning 36 in January. There’s the illogic.
ZMAN7777
December 11th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
bru—There are a lot of players who would make the Yankees better. However, it’s not just about one or two extra wins in ‘09. It’s about an overall gameplan—a strategy to get younger and be more forward looking. This team seems to lack this. They’ve been simply plugging holes for too long.”
AND stunningly, people want us to repeat this pattern.
“However, given the Yankees IF defense is at best average, IMHO, Lowe will be hurt significantly by this compared to his defense in LA. This is the main reason I’m not an advocate of Lowe.”
It’s an issue but it may be less of one than you’d think.
Firs off your concern implies that the Dodgers defense was good. Or at least substantially better than the yankees.
That’s not the case. The dodgers were a bad defensive team last year.
By ultimate zone rating the yankees were the 3rd worst defensive team in baseball. The dodgers were 4th worst. Furcal was out nearly the whole season and that threw the infield into flux. They couldn’t settle on a 3rd baseman, etc.
So I don’t know how much more Lowe would be hurt by the yankees defense compared to the dodgers.
In particular, the yankees have gotten rid of Abreu and Giambi two of their three worst defensive players. So the team defense should be better.
And on the whole some ground ball pitchers aren’t hurt that much by defense. Wang isn’t. Last year wang was helped by his defense more than any other pitcher in baseball. Lowe was a bit like that as well – helped more by his defense than an average pitcher.
Yet both Lowe and Wang pitched behind far below average defenses. So how is this possible?
It’s likely that not only do Wang and Lowe give up ground balls they give up ground balls that are generally not that difficult to field on average.
So I don’t think defense would affect Lowe that much if he were to come to the yankees.
“Just got a text from ESPN Mobile that Bernie Williams is going to the play for Puerto Rico in the WBC.”
____________________________________________
that’s sweet — they have a senior league.
Cameron plays 1 year or so, then Jackson takes over CF. Most of the Yankees position player prospects have yet to play above A ball.
from rotoworld.com
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel believes the hurdle has been cleared in the proposed Mike Cameron-for-Melky Cabrera deal.
Brewers general manager Doug Melvin just said there was “a strong possibility it could still happen.” The financial issues have apparently been taken care of. The matter at hand now is the second player coming over from the Yankees. Perhaps it will be one of the relievers passed over in the Rule 5 draft, like Kevin Whelan or J. Brent Cox.
Laura – Welcome, CC!
—————————-
The Mets will probably choke trying to plunk Hamels, and bean Mr. Met instead.
“Boston Dave, it’s one thing to know that you suck. It’s another thing when one of your main rivals tells the world that you suck. Hamels called them out on their own radio station. You don’t think he’s getting plunked next season when he’s up at the plate?”
he was asked the question. he didnt come out and offer it up on his own. big difference.
bodhisattva –
We’re talking about a someone who’s a significant upgrade over what we’ve got, until Austin Jackson, who’s been playing to rave reviews by multiple sources, and appears to be the real deal, is ready in 2010, and is not rushed. So a 36-year, hold-the-fort guy who played better than a lot of other CFs last year looks pretty good.
What’s your plan?
“Just got a text from ESPN Mobile that Bernie Williams is going to the play for Puerto Rico in the WBC.”
This is starting to get embarrassing.
sounds like Cameron will be coming to NY soon
Good find Dave. Looks like the deal is back on and could be announced tomorrow.
Tom Haudricourt (who wrote the story), is to Doug Melvin what Jon Heyman is to Scott Boras. An extension of each guys PR office.
SJ44
December 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
“Really, the Blue Jays? A team with Arod, Jeter, Damon, Cano, Matsui and Posada can’t score runs? Please, that’s not even remotely accurate.”
My response is how could a team with Damon, Jeter,Abreu, A Rod, Cano,Nady and Giambi be so inept scoring runs in ‘08?
To say the ‘09 Yanks are going to be more efficient assumes Matsui fully recovers from 2 knee surgeries, Posada recovers fully from shoulder surgery, Nady replaces Abreu’s obp & rbi’s and Nick Swisher & Robinson Cano’s ‘08 seasons were nothing more than aberrations.That’s a lot of wishing.
IMO, the Blue Jay analogy isnt that far off.
“Cameron plays 1 year or so, then Jackson takes over CF. Most of the Yankees position player prospects have yet to play above A ball.”
This is what people seem to miss. As the team tries to transition to younger players while still winning they need a strategy to bridge to those younger players so they aren’t rushed into the pressure cooker of a playoff race in NY.
Pettite comes back this year he’s a perfect bridge to allow Hughes to spend time in AAA in 2009 and then enter the rotation by 2010.
Cameron plays CF and allows Jackson to take his time in AAA to develop.
There’s a strategy here.
The yankees missed the playoffs last year by 6 games. Mike Cameron is 2 games better than Brett Gardner.
So by acquiring Gardner they would be erasing 33% of the difference between them and the sox last year.
The yankees can’t just throw away seasons. They have to try to win while they transition to younger players – which is still their long term strategy.
To do that you need bridge players that will allow the transition go more smoothly rather than just rushing young players and putting them in situation in which they are likely to fail.
Sadly, the Yankees are starting to remind me of the sci-fi movie, Logan’s Run, but in reverse — or like a town in the wake of the Civil War. In other words, where are all the young men under 35?
Bret-
I do agree that it’s always good to have the surplus, but I’d rather not be locked in to so many long term pitching contracts. I guess I don’t see Burnett being such a great pitcher for 5 years, I can see us in 3 years lamenting about how unmoveable he is and that we can finally see the fruits of our ‘patience’ with our youngsters only to watch another team be rewarded.
Signing Burnett for 5 years makes sense if you think you’ll have nothing better than him for 5 years, I think the Yankees will.
say what you want about andy and the yankees ,, but you have to admit him flying to texas to get andy back shows the yankees are also very loyal to tthey’re posada, andy,mo, the red sox wont even get thier capitan back
“Financial matters have been taken care of”
Does that mean the Brewers are eating some of Cameron’s unmovable contract?
SJ – understand where you’re coming from on your minors breakouts – those 3 could explode next year.
But AJax and Montero are already known commodities. Top 50 MiLB prospects, top 2 NYY in BA, etc. And McA is also in BA’s top 10.
Guess I was thinking of guys held in less regard or getting less attention. I’m thinking of guys like C. Garcia, Bleich, Laird, Angelini, Sublett, Russo, Abe Almonte, Kontos, De La Rosa (although 2008 might count as such for him). Or ‘08 draftees. We have lots of young pitchers from that draft that saw little or no time last season that could emerge – DJ Mitchell, Marshall, O’Brien, Turley etc. And maybe Sosa or DeLeon from the DSL. Or Vizcaino, Banuelos, Joseph, Lassiter, Higashioka from GC.
Sure would be nice if a power bat would emerge – Laird or Suttle perhaps our best bets.
“Does that mean the Brewers are eating some of Cameron’s unmovable contract?”
1yr/$10M seems hardly unmovable. The Brewers had the option of letting Cameron walk but chose to excerise the $10M option (though perhaps with some alterior motives to entice CC to stay).
I think if the Yanks throw in a decent prospect, it’s fair to ask for a couple mil… but Cameron for $10M and just one year is not a bad deal.
Bret the Hitman,
“Does that mean the Brewers are eating some of Cameron’s unmovable contract?”
If it follows suit with the CC negotiations,it more likely means we’re taking all of Cameron’s contract and another one to boot.
If you assume every player on offense is going to have an off year again, then the team has no chance of winning.
They aren’t changing the entire lineup because they didn’t hit last year.
So far, they have gotten younger, not older, with their acquisitions.
Swisher is under 30. So is CC. If they get AJ, he’s 32. Moose was 40.
Nady, who is replacing Abreu in right, is 5 years younger.
They are getting younger, and more athletic.
They will add Mark Melancon to the bullpen this year and he is only 23.
If they add Cameron for a year, its to be a stopgap for Jackson.
The team is getting younger and more athletic, with upgraded starting pitching, if they can round out the rotation the way they are hoping to.
ZMan,
havent seen Logan’s Run in a while… good movie
CB,
I love what you bring to the table, but to say that we should pay $10M to make up 2 games last year is confusing. Those stats are a great analysis tool, but I don’t think they can predict the future. The game of baseball is so wacky, a game of inches where weather, birds, fan interference, and errors can determine a game as much as human performance.
2 games. Let’s say, Gardner had a walk-off in one game. Mo blew another.
I can see the value of bringing in Cameron because he upgrades and stabilizes the position, but that’s a hefty cost for 2 games that can be won or lost in a thousand different ways.
Not that money’s any object, but I’d rather pay Brett to strike out than Cameron.
Cool I like Cameron if Milwakkee eats half the salary.
Yes, Dave, it was. Really cool premise. I think it starred a young Michael York.
ack-analytical
Paul,
Fair enough and you may be right about Burnett. If he becomes unmovable then I hope it’s the only spot in the rotation that blocks some of our more promising arms. We do have so many: Joba, Hughes, Brackman, Betances, McAllister, Aceves, Kennedy.
But if all of the arms that pan out become blocked then we can exchange them to field a younger team of position players to replace the diminishing production of Posada, Jeter and Arod as they approach age 40.
Here’s to hoping AJ Burnett gives us at least a couple dominating years and rings.
Cameron would help us with our hitting against LHP. He had a .951 ops vs lhp last year and its at .851 for his career.
Andy should remember there are gonna be a whole bunch of new FA’s around midnight all competing for the dollars that he doesn’t take today.
mel – I’ve read your posts here, and respect your opinion, but I have to disagree here. I don’t think we can depend on Brett Gardner.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m really rooting for the guy, and hope like heck he puts it together and forces his way into the lineup. But I don’t think we should count on his producing like a ML-average CF.
Boston Dave,
I really can’t think of any team other than the Yankees that would be willing to assume 10 million for Mike Cameron in this market. Paying top dollar for pitching is one thing but…
SJ44,
I’m not assuming every player is going to have an off year. What I am saying is that any assertions that the offense is going to be improved in ‘09 ignores injury recovery and age, not to mention the loss of the 2 highest on base percentages on the team.
At this very time last year it was assumed that the Yankees would score around 1,000 runs. I’ve learned not to assume anything.
You know what else is nice about Cameron being on a 1 year deal? If he goes by the contract year rule he will produce at least to his career numbers or better in an attempt to earn one last contract. That would be a huge benefit to the Yanks as his career numbers would pick up the slack for the loss of The Big G. 70 RBIs on the Brewers is what 75-80 on the Yankees? AND if he plays the same 120 games he played last year you get to see a decent amount of at-bats to see if Gardener is a 4th outfielder.
I’d be okay with Bubba Crosby being our everyday centerfielder going into the season.
“Those stats are a great analysis tool, but I don’t think they can predict the future.”
mel,
I wasn’t trying to imply some kind of causal relation. As if making one move would guarantee that they’d definitely win 2 games, etc.
But what is true is that replacing Gardner/Melky with Cameron would have improved the team by around 2 games on average all other things being equal.
That’s an estimate. But when you are trying to make moves in the off season estimates are important. That’s generally how we plan to do many things in our lives.
That’s how well run business are run. They don’t just make guesses about things. They try to gauge decision based on the best information available.
Often its statistics that are the best information available. But I’m definitely not one who says that numbers are everything. Scouting is huge – more important than numbers.
As a whole other issue, I just think Cameron is a way better player than Gardner. Having watched them play I think there is no comparison between them. I’m not impressed by Gardner’s tools at all as I don’t think he has the most important tool of all – the bat. That’s my opinion.
But I also try not to just go on my opinions. I try to balance things.
So its just an estimate. But I think its a pretty decent one.
But sure it’s not deterministic.
Sheeeets!!!
The cameron deal wont be good – i like the power and speed but we need a guy with power and obp. Speed is nice but not when he has under a league average obp last year. We lost abreu and giambi and essentially replaced them with swisher and whoever else we get or gardner. Guess who our team leaders were in walks last year – thats right it was your favorite yankees – Giambi in first with 76 and abreu in second with 73. They were also in third and fourth in obp (with damon and arod in first and second.) So without banking on a comeback from matsui AND posada, we need a replacement bat that gets walks, takes pitches and has higher than league avg obp.
Swisher is nice because he is cheap and on his good years, he takes pitches, gets walks and could easily have an obp over 370 which would be top four on the team last year. mIKE Cameron is 10 mil, doesnt take pitches and had a 331 obp last year, Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he has a 340 for his career. His age is irrelevant because it is a one year deal but he didnt even have a healthy year last year. He will hit 20 plus homers and get 15 plus steals if he stays healthy but we need a player with a great eye. Cameron should not be our guy – i dont care if we have to give up melky for him or a bag of balls, i wouldnt want him in the lineup.
Al from BK December 11th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Cool I like Cameron if Milwakkee eats half the salary.
______________________________________
Maybe CC can eat half the salary.
Bret the Hitman
December 11th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Is Mike Cameron the type of player who will, as someone said earlier, ‘pound mediocre pitching’ and disappear against the more talented pitchers. Does his plus power and high K rate suggest that he swings for the fences and feasts on mistake pitches?
Cameron vs. power pitchers. —.174/.300/.323/.623
vs. power/finesse————.265/.351/.477/.828
vs. finesse:—————–.273/.347/.477/.824
“I really can’t think of any team other than the Yankees that would be willing to assume 10 million for Mike Cameron in this market. Paying top dollar for pitching is one thing but…”
I think a team that desperately needed a CF and preferred a 1yr deal would at least consider Cameron for 1yr/$10M. The 1yr is really the kicker. It’s a short term investment… and also may bring back a draft pick next offseason (as an added bonus). I’m not saying it’s a steal… but that’s why they are getting him without giving up a top prospect.
CC can eat.
CB,
Cool. I can accept “Brett hasn’t shown us he can get on base enough to get the position.” But I can’t accept that “he’ll be 2 games worse than Cameron.”
there were rumors that the Mets had at least some interest in Juan Pierre. Now that would be a mistake. Cameron is a nice stopgap for a position of need.
mel,
Let me be more specific – should have said this earlier.
Cameron will produce around 20-25 runs more for the offense than Gardner will.
On average every additional 10 runs a player produces is equal to one win.
That’s where the 2 win estimate comes from.
The more specific thing is the 20-25 run improvement.
One thing nobody has said:
With all of our young pitchers coming up, where do they fit in?
1- Well we could always trade them if they are blocked by CC, AJ and Wang, Joba, Hughes, OR
2- IF Joba and Hughes pitch well then we could always move Wang before he becomes a free agent since he will be easier to move than AJ or CC. Wang will be looking for a large pay day come FA and it is not so unrealistic that we could move him to make room for Brackman or one of the others.
Just food for thought?
Joe from Long Island
December 11th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
bodhisattva –
We’re talking about a someone who’s a significant upgrade over what we’ve got, until Austin Jackson, who’s been playing to rave reviews by multiple sources, and appears to be the real deal, is ready in 2010, and is not rushed. So a 36-year, hold-the-fort guy who played better than a lot of other CFs last year looks pretty good.
What’s your plan?
First of all, I don’t buy into the premise that we need to go out and get a CF. Between Gardner/Cabrera, it’s fine. Cabrera is 24, had a down year, but was an excellent defender for us 2006 & 2007 while serviceable enough offensively.
In fact, BECAUSE Ajax’s ETA is 2010, that to me emphasizes that we need do nothing to CF until then.
It’s not as if Melky/Gardner is projected as the CF of the future; that would be different, but that’s not the case, is it.
BD,
You summarized it perfectly. Somehow people think Cameron is like a useless Pierre player. That’s exactly it.
I don’t like strike outs but man do many people just make them out to be the be all and end all of everthing.
YankeeRay
December 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
One thing nobody has said:
With all of our young pitchers coming up, where do they fit in?
1- Well we could always trade them if they are blocked by CC, AJ and Wang, Joba, Hughes, OR
2- IF Joba and Hughes pitch well then we could always move Wang before he becomes a free agent since he will be easier to move than AJ or CC. Wang will be looking for a large pay day come FA and it is not so unrealistic that we could move him to make room for Brackman or one of the others.
Just food for thought?
We’re moving out Wang so we can accommodate a stupid contract we’re giving AJ Burnett?
YankeeRay,
Why would the Yankees next year want to trade a 29 year old pitcher that won as many games ‘06-07 than any starter in baseball just because they owe a 33 year old njury prone AJ Burnett $18mil? Those are preciseley the types of deals the Yanks should avoid.
Bret-
I totally agree, and hope if we get Burnett then he lives up to his contract and that our prospects can get us a good future return.
I see young pitchers as more valuable than any other position, so Burnett for 5 plus a young fielder a prospect might bring back doesn’t equal a quality pitcher for 10 years (before getting a big pay raise).
Not sure if I was clear enough on this post as my students are driving me insane!
bodhisattva
December 11th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
YankeeRay
December 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
One thing nobody has said:
With all of our young pitchers coming up, where do they fit in?
1- Well we could always trade them if they are blocked by CC, AJ and Wang, Joba, Hughes, OR
2- IF Joba and Hughes pitch well then we could always move Wang before he becomes a free agent since he will be easier to move than AJ or CC. Wang will be looking for a large pay day come FA and it is not so unrealistic that we could move him to make room for Brackman or one of the others.
Just food for thought?
We’re moving out Wang so we can accommodate a stupid contract we’re giving AJ Burnett?
–
Just a thought. Thats only if Burnett is lights out. Imagine the Yankees in a salary dump with Wang to bring up a young stud. You will know we have transformed if that happens.
For clarity, I man not suggesting that, just bringing up a possible scenario if CC and AJ are what we hope they are. If they are, then I would think they would both be better than Wang.
Would be pretty funny don’t you think?
Boston Dave
December 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
“I really can’t think of any team other than the Yankees that would be willing to assume 10 million for Mike Cameron in this market. Paying top dollar for pitching is one thing but…”
I think a team that desperately needed a CF and preferred a 1yr deal would at least consider Cameron for 1yr/$10M. The 1yr is really the kicker. It’s a short term investment… and also may bring back a draft pick next offseason (as an added bonus). I’m not saying it’s a steal… but that’s why they are getting him without giving up a top prospect.
JB Cox is a decent prospect, and that’s who some genius on TV just suggested (whether this is his own brilliant idea, or he heard something, I know not. It’s very possible he stupidly consulted who we exposed in Rule 5 draft and did some poor math).
I would not include Cox in this trade, which I wouldn’t make to begin with, but that’s another story.
CB,
I know. Matt Kemp struck out quite a bit too with a lower OPS. Shouldn’t he be disqualified by some people’s logic?
Not trying to compare the two players in any way (just in case I get jumped all over)… just saying that many people want to trade Cano and more for Kemp when we can get a decent CF for 1 year without giving up major talent.
Cashman up next on Hot Stove after commercial.
“I would not include Cox in this trade, which I wouldn’t make to begin with, but that’s another story.”
bod, I like Cox as well and would rather see Whelan go. Those were just loosely based predicitions from rotoworld. I have no clue who the prospect would be. It does seem, however, that the Yankees has soured somewhat on Cox.
we all saw what a 300 obp cf can do to a team.
any time you can upgrade obp you do so.take money out of the uquasion.it is not you’res.
Hank ro more than Hank?
“There are some in the Yankees’ organization who believe the team’s lineup is short on power – that the only real home run threat is Alex Rodriguez. That’s why the Yankees can’t be completely ruled out of the Mark Teixeira race. They would jump in on Teixeira if all of their pitching plans fell apart. It’s also why they can’t be ruled out of a pursuit of Manny Ramirez, who they could bring in on a shorter-term deal even if they did get Burnett.”
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....ees_e.html
ro = or
everybody is happy when a trade happens that they like & not happy when a trade happens that they dislike & then they change their minds ten times in the process.
on paper we are much better with cam in cf.
that is all you have to rely on.
^^^His health is something of an issue. The guy is unflappable with not great, but decent stuff.
The pitching staff is shaping up nicely.
However the hitting is still suspect:
We need hitters to get on base for A-Rod to see good pitches with a good bat behind him. If this becomes the lineup, against a righty pitcher:
Damon -got on base and stole bases at a good %
Jeter -hit into the 2nd or 3rd most DP’s in AL
A-Rod- probably 3rd- if no one on he’s pitched around
Matsui-didn’t help down the stretch, can’t run- BIG ?
Nady-Hit .268 with Yankees
Cano-Must be better-can be .300 hitter again
Posada-can he reproduce 2007 numbers- BIG ?
Swisher-Hit .227 against righties
Cameron-Hit .231 against righties
How did we win 89 games last year with the injuries and relying on Mussina as your #1?
Where are the Red Sox weaker, especially if they sign Tex?
Where are the Rays weaker if they sign Bradley, and pick up one of the plentiful bullpen arms?
CB-
Answers please. tell me how we pick up 8-10 more wins, with the loss of Mussina, Abreu, Giambi!!
“Answers please. tell me how we pick up 8-10 more wins, with the loss of Mussina, Abreu, Giambi!!”
Not sure I can play GM but…
Add CC and AJ to the rotation along with a healthy Wang and Joba and a league average Pettite. Now the big issue there is that they lose moose.
So those pitching upgrades are around 4 additional wins.
Cameron is a 2 win upgrade on CF from last year.
So I think those are 6 wins.
The defense I think will be 1-2 games better.
Now the thing that’s really hard to estimate is what the offense will do.
That’s the wild card if CC, AJ and Pettite are in the rotation. Are they worse than last year? Same? Little better?
But this is what the team looks like to me.
I think it’s much better as long as you assume AJ will stay healthy and have a season in 2009 like he had in 2008. That’s a huge question mark.
If AJ falters it gets tough.
If Cashman lands Burnett, and Andy, he will not have signed a Scott Boras client assuming Lowe is off the radar and Teixeira signs with the Angels.
I hope Andy says no, and we get Sheets. And if Sheets misses some starts, we have Phil Hughes. Sheets has so much more upside, and I feel it is time to move on from Pettitte.
Also, I want no part of Derek Lowe. I feel his great era is due to the national league and the Dodger’s stadium. He was terrible with Boston, his last few years.
And please NO oliver perez.
kennedy will become a great ptcher…….you heard it here first!