Reggie on the recruiting of CC
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- December
- 11
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Ryan Dunleavy works for the Courier News & Home News Tribune in New Jersey, two papers in the same company as The Journal News.
He wrote a piece on a holiday party thrown by the Somerset Patriots that featured appearances by Reggie Jackson and Willie Randolph. Much of the talk was about the Yankees landing CC Sabathia.
Ryan talked to Mr. October at length about the recruiting process and couldn’t get all the comments into his story. He was nice enough to send them along to me to use on the blog. Reggie, as you know, accompanied Cashman to the team’s first meeting with Sabathia.
Here’s what Reggie offered:
“I went with Brian (Cashman). Brian did a wonderful job. I was just talking to CC about what the city offers, and really what the team offers, the Steinbrenners. They take the money that they earn and put it back into the team. They don’t make money with the team. They make money with the brand and, of course, the value of the team, but they put the money back into the team. I admire that. Certainly the money that the team paid him, that the Steinbrenners paid him, made a significant difference in helping change his mind to become a Yankee.
“We need pitching. He’s going to make a significant change to that. I think it changes the attitude from the people on our staff, inside our ball club and organization. It’s a significant help there. I think our fan base and the people that support the team understand that they’re trying to do the right thing, so I certainly think that it’s worth its value.”
————
As for me, I’m staying in Vegas until Saturday afternoon to try and have a little fun. I’ll update the blog as needed on Friday but I do hope to unwind a little bit after a busy week. In other words, tomorrow is probably not going to be a 16-post day.
Thanks for reading today and all week. The response and participation has been tremendous.
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on Thursday, December 11th, 2008 at 10:59 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
booo- Pete who goes to Vegas to have fun?
I guess once you return you’ll be headed to the stadium for CC’s introduction.
Thanks for all the updates, Pete. I’m not a regular commenter here, but I check the site religiously and really appreciate all the updates.
Enjoy Vegas Pete.
While I’d like to think that Reggie put it over the top we all have to know that it was the wads and wads of money. But I’ll surely live with that.
Thanks again Peter. Enjoy your time in Vegas. The Bellagio is my favorite hotel there.
Dedication to Melky. Thanks Melkman. Good luck in your career.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxOyGK1pMk
So let me pose the question at the start of this post:
Are the additions of Swisher & Cameron (assuming we acquire him) the only offensive moves we forsee this team making prior to opening day? If not, what positions will we look to upgrade. IMO the bench needs to be the next priority, with an additional outfielder, if the right situation presents itself.
Thoughts?
Pete
What happened to “What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas”? You sure provided us with a lot of info this week…Great Job…Now go have some fun….
ps
if you you see any of OJ’s memorobilia, just walk away it’s not worth it.
I meant a bench infielder & an additional outfielder, not an outfielder on the bench.
Pete,
Lay back for a day and just enjoy the Vegas life. I love all the info you give us and you really deserve this one.
You are the man.
Enjoy vegas, i recall you picked the seahwaks for the superbowl, easy on the football bets…
JoeyA- Have to address the bench. I think Brett will be the outfielder off the bench for defense and pinch running. I would like to see Eric Hinske as a bench player with some pop.
You did a great job! Enjoy your weekend u earned it! (added by Mobile using Mippin)
I just decided I don’t care for that Andrew Friedman character. Should I cut him some slack for forgetting that you’re supposed to act like you’ve been there before?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....tings_2008
Reggie turned out to be a better recruiter than this guy, but it was close:
http://tinyurl.com/5ou44c
mel, you should cut him some slack because his comments were very benign (”They’re very well-run”) and because, well, they haven’t been there before.
Well this Saints/Bears game is all exciting now.
Peter: thank you for all the excellent coverage. Enjoy your off day.
Donavan McNabb just said “the game can end in a tie? Really?”
2010 Yankees
Lineup
Crawford CF/RF
Jeter SS
Holliday LF
Arod 3B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher 1B
Ajax RF/CF
DH – ?
Rotation
CC
Wang
Burnett
Joba
Hughes
Is anyone else really excited for this?? Cuz I am
“2010 Yankees
Lineup
Crawford CF/RF
Jeter SS
Holliday LF
Arod 3B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher 1B
Ajax RF/CF
DH – ?
Rotation
CC
Wang
Burnett
Joba
Hughes
Is anyone else really excited for this?? Cuz I am”
not really. Buying a team, takes away the excitement.
2009 haven’t even started, so why worry about 2010 so fast? duh?
Forget 2009 or 2010. I think we need to figure out the 2110 NY Yankees rotation/lineup.
Of course, those players don’t exist yet. However let’s not let that tiny fact stop us.
From the last thread:
“I watched a ton of Manny after he landed here ….Man he was simply amazing….It seemed that he was on every pitch, as if he was seeing everything in slow motion….His hands were electric, incredible quickness, drove the ball where ever the pitch was….”
Pat M,
I couldn’t agree with more. Watching him was a jaw dropping experience.
He was better than Alex was in 2007. I don’t know if I’ve personally ever seen a hitter look like that. Pujols perhaps.
But your description was exactly right. His combination of hand speed and pitch recognition was just astounding. I don’t ever recall a hitter squaring up so many pitches with such regularity. I mean squaring up the pitcher’s pitch and just driving through the ball as if it were no effort in the least.
He was always on the ball. Freakish. Explosive hands, pitch recognition, patience, driving the ball to all fields, astounding.
He has lost nothing physically.
And Pat to be honest with you – first time I looked in totality at his numbers in LA the first thing that popped into my head was Ted Williams 1941.
Now there’s no comparison between them as obviously Williams did it for a season.
But this was manny’s line in LA: .396/ .489/ .743. That’s a 1.232 OPS. On top of that 17 HR/ 53 RBI’s in 187 AB.
That line is very reminiscent of what Williams did in 1941 – .406/ .553/ .735 OPS of 1.288.
Obviously Williams was better and did it for a whole season.
But the combination of getting on base around 50% of the time while at the same time slugging over .700 – for any period of time – is just unbelievable.
He’s a machine. There’s no two ways about.
If were to come back to the AL East, focused, and angry at Boston it would be utter destruction.
But the big question of course is the focus. He could come back angry that he didn’t get the 4yr/100M boras promised and take it out on the team he played for.
But there is no question – he’s lost nothing. He will hit 600 HR no problem if he wants to.
“I think we need to figure out the 2110 NY Yankees rotation/lineup. ”
our great-great grandkids will be playing for the Yanks.
LOL
“Cor Shep”
you can change the DH ? to Posada and plug in a prospect at catching. and I could see us going after Crawford but not Holiday.
Hah okay don’t all jump on me at the same time…
Sorry but sitting here I am trying to study for my ridiculous abstract algebra final tomorrow and I was scrolling through the overly-negative posts about how bad the offense is on the last thread and found myself needing a little pick-me-up.. so sue me hah
Pete ,
Thank you . The action on the site is because of you. Thanks for keeping us updated. You won my heart forever with your posts the night Cash went to SF. You got the best Yankee site on the net. Love ya in a non gay way
“Forget 2009 or 2010. I think we need to figure out the 2110 NY Yankees rotation/lineup.”
Tough to speculate without knowing whether Alex Rodriguez Ciccone III will opt out of his contract. Isn’t his agent the floating brain of Scott Boras?
Havent heard a peep about adam dunn lately – i cant imagine why the yanks wouldnt give his agent a call and see what he wants. Doesnt seem like there would be much if any competition. We desperately need a four hitter and he can play first with swisher’s versatility. i DONT see how this ISNT a match. He is likely going to end up getting a two to three year deal – maybe 2 years with an option. Sounds nice to me. High value, low years on a contract for a consistent and young player.
Once, the cameron trade goes through, i think signing dunn will be a perfect way to fill out our lineup as ive said already. You have to work with what you have and the yanks dont have two quality hitters that arent injury prone to hit third and fourth. Arod takes the third hole, dunn moves into the fourth spot and the lineup looks a whole lot nicer. obviously, swisher would be the odd man out but a perfect replacement when an injury arises which it will – plus he is cheap enough and versatile enough to fill that bat of the bench, OF backup, 1B and dh backup. Sounds pretty convenient to me esp with matsui, posada and cameron being slight to significant injury risks. We could use a little obp in the lineup as well with cameron and nady not doing much to improve it.
Cano is also not a good obp guy so far. So 3 out of the 9 spots in our lineup is made of of guys who dont really take pitches – the other 6 should be above average in OBP in the league. sWISHER could be but dunn is guaranteed to be at 400 – which would probably lead the team and be a perfect replacement to giambi and abreu. Also, you can bank on 40 homers from dunn – besides arod, we have decent power but no real power threats – arod and dunn would give you a power threat from the right side and one from the left side back to back. And he will enjoy the short portch as well. Cashman at least has to look into this as it sounds like an idea signing.
“Pete,
Thank you . The action on the site is because of you. Thanks for keeping us updated. You won my heart forever with your posts the night Cash went to SF. You got the best Yankee site on the net. Love ya in a non gay way”
co-signed.
I hope you keep being nice to Girardi, tho
Thas supposed to say ideal signing
Enoy the rest of the time in Vegas. Great job this week as always. Hope you find a table where the other player hits with 15 and dealer show a face card.
Pete, we’re still waiting for your buffet reports/blogs….
Cameron has no range
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....p;c_id=mil
No range
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....8173322662
Brilliant move by Cashman to bring along Reggie Jackson to the first meeting.
There are always people willing to down about Cashman but that has to be one of the best decisions he has made during his tenure IMO.
None
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....7293220833
Interesting stat – manny has only batted under 300 once in ever single playoff series since 2003 ALDS. Talk about clutch – that is against some of the best pitching in baseball and thats 10 playoff series. Also, he has gone seven out of his last eight playoff series with an obp over 400. Also, 10 out of his last 11 seasons, he was in the mvp voting finishing fourth twice and third twice without ever winning an mvp. He is 31st all time in shared of mvp votes without ever winning one – there is 2 people above him that have never won an mvp either – piazzza in 29th place and murray in 21st place all time. crazy stuff.
Also think pre-steroid alleged Bonds > Manny Ramirez & Alex Rodriguez.
Bonds from 1990 – 1997 put up the greatest numbers of his generation long before he was ever accused of using steroids.
the non-tendered names should be coming out soon.
“Bonds from 1990 – 1997 put up the greatest numbers of his generation long before he was ever accused of using steroids.”
Now you might not agree with this but many people believe that Bonds potential use of steroids dates way back before 1998. That even though that’s when the momentum of the allegations were gaining weight he was already using.
His body had changed way before 1998
“Cameron has no range”
Yep, Melky has better range than him.
“the non-tendered names should be coming out soon.”
waiting to see who will be free agents will come out tomorrow night.
lol, at the WFAN “whos on first/JJ Putz” segment
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....8173322355
None…
“Bonds from 1990 – 1997 put up the greatest numbers of his generation long before he was ever accused of using steroids”
for the best overall player of my lifetime, i’ll take Rickey Henderson.
“Yep, Melky has better range than him.”
…should had added this:
sorry for any confusion.
i mean…
Ed: you alright ?
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.c.....p;c_id=mil
Yep, no range!!!
Vinny,
I think having 5 hours of sleep for the past 2 days had took a toll on me. lol so no, im not okay.
Apparently.
CB…I knew Manny’s #’s were out of sight, however you have shined a very bright light upon them…..Ted freggin Williams, baseball royality…..Two years of Manny could be one hell of a show…..Although I’d love to see the circus and it’s fireworks, I still wish for AJ & Texeria to Join CC for 09….The tab for the 3 would be around 60 mil, give or take a few mil…..Is Brad Penny still a FA, not one mention about him….
Brandon,
one of the links you posted was actually a “no range”. an error play. lol
brother Ed: understand. Burning the night oil, myself
looking forward to when Derrick Lowe is off the market. (and not signed by NYY)
we don’t want you, Derrick
Vinny dude,
I seriously hope Boston, Philly, or the Mets snag Lowe away from us.
“Brandon,
one of the links you posted was actually a “no range”. an error play. lol”
I know. That was the playoffs on the line drive drop, he broke in and read it wrong. Line drives are the toughest for a CF but on this day he had to factor the Philly wind.
Oh okay, gotcha.
oh yeah, I guess Cashman isn’t interested in Baldelli anymore which I think its why he went this route.
“Epstein said he sticks to his process, and that no matter what happens you have to be comfortable with either result.”
projo.com
“Process” must be taught in GM101.
the word “process” has been definitely overused this past few weeks. the GMs need a new synonym for it.
I guess the questionton to ask is Pettitte or Sheets A=who do you want the yanks to sign B=who do you think they will sign My a and b answers are Sheets Dont think pettitte is happy the way this all is going down and dont think he will like the sign or else deal. +to much pride. Also dont think Yankees are ready to start Hughes at begining of season. Relax about the injury history thats why we have our young guys developing. What are the odds both Burnett and Sheets are hurt at the same time. Say NO TO LOWE. What are your coments.
PS I knocked on wood while I wrote that post.
Jobatheheat:
1st preference – Sheets & Petitte
2nd preference – Burnett & Petitte
3rd preference – Derrick Lowe on any team except the Yankees
Go get drunk Pete and thanks for all your hard work. Three words: Crazy Horse Too. Tell ‘em Johnnie P sent you. No need to thank me.
Vinny-b Im pretty sure Burnett is gona be part of the team. But i dont think that will hurt us to much. The guy basically has to be a # 3 starter.
Jake Peavy is frustrated that the trade talks with the Cubs fell apart. Why don’t the Yankees try to get in on that instead of gambling $80 million on Burnett? Peavy is owed 9M, 15M, 16M, 17M and 22M over the next 5 years with is $1M less than the rumored contract for AJB. Peavy is worth it, Burnett ain’t.
Plus this would allow the Yankees to seriously pursue Texeira if they can fill the 3rd rotation spot with another ace making only $9 million.
Sabathia
Wang
Peavy
Joba
Pettitte
That’s sick.
Wow those new sox away uni’s are horrendous……the hanging sox on the shoulder looks bad…..and getting rid of a B hat for a hanging sox hat? Well thats just stupid.
“Wow those new sox away uni’s are horrendous……the hanging sox on the shoulder looks bad…..and getting rid of a B hat for a hanging sox hat? Well thats just stupid”
link ?
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseba.....ew-Logo-0/
http://www.google.com/hostedne.....wD950T0201
Are they trying to be like us, what’s next a pinstripe home jersey ?
Boston had to get a new logo to sell more merchandise so they can afford Tex. You know money is getting tough….
thank you.
I think they an improvment. Remind me of the jerseys from Boggs/Burkes/Greenwell/Oil Can, era.
Just because of the hanging sock alone that might make Tex sign w/ Washington.
“Just because of the hanging sock alone that might make Tex sign w/ Washington.”
lol yep. Bowden seriously can’t wait to dump Johnson. Cashman should swoop in then, and we have our #3 hitter.
hopefully 80 years from now Boston will be haunted by the Curse of Uniform Desecration.
for that team, those uniforms are kind of deficient in the color red.
well, hopefully this corresponds w/the Yanks nabbing Teixeira from Boston’s clutches.
Don’t the Sox have to share the money from the new uni’s with the rest of MLB?
Those new unis and logos aren’t really new. They are the same logos they’ve had off and on for decades.
Seriously… those road Jerseys are screaming “WE WANT TO BE THE YANKEES!!
”
They can’t just switch unis and be like the Yankees.
It’s a process.
Ugh. They just unveiled their next attempt to cheapen the New York Yankees.
http://i35.tinypic.com/ocjk5.jpg
*It’s a process.
Obviously…
Those Boston hats are frickin’ hideous. Seriously. I don’t understand the need to change a classic hat/uniform. It’s one of the many reasons I love the Yankees so much.
I was watching the Yankees Hot Stove thingy on YES. What the heck happened to Klapisch? Was he in an accident or have a medical emergency? If you saw the show tonight, you know what I’m talking about.
Klapisch was definitely trying to suggest that the Yankees have more than enough in the budget to bag CC, AJ, Pettitte and Tex (or Manny).
I don’t disagree (even though I know Pete does). I think the fact that Damon and Matsui (and potentially Nady) come off the books next season gives Cashman a big decision to make. If he feels that Tex or Manny are better hitters/players/fits for this team than any free agent hitters he can sign next year to replace Damon/Matsui/Nady, that might be enough to get them to sign a Tex/Manny in addition to all the pitching.
G. Love,
I think I’m the only one still up. Klapisch had to have facial surgery after a baseball accident in a semi-pro league game.
If he’s back in action, that’s good news. I heard it was pretty bad.
Regarding Tex, I love the guy and still want him, but I can see how the Yankees could bow out of a serious chase. All things being equal, I tell myself he’d want to be a Yankee. But I can see how it would be a “fantasy” to use Cash’s own words to have both Tex and CC.
It’s looking like Tex is either going to get his years, AAV up about $22-23M, or both. It’s not just a you know what contest between the Angels and the Sox. The Nationals have a legit offer on the table.
Unbelievable. Lying down watching espnews and they’re showing DR league highlights.
Liriano v. Carmona. Melky with the tying run for Carmona. He must be a little sad about the news of a trade, but he’ll probably have a full-time gig with a better chance of sticking in the majors. May he feast on many NL meatballs.
“got cc’s bff?” doesn’t have the same ring to it as “got melky?”
Do I have to trade my t-shirt to Milwaukee too?
If they get Peavy, Wang is No. 3, not 2.
I’d be (pleasantly) surprised if there was a move for a big bat. Just too many untradeable decling guys making big money (Posada, Matsui, Damon). I think Swisher will be a solid pickup. Cano will bounce back. Should be good enough with the way pitching staff shapes up.
Yankee fans really need to get over Teixeira and Manny. Cashman has shown little interest in either of them and were never really on their radar.
It’s not that the Yanks wouldn’t like to have Teixiera, but the rotation came first and assembling a stud rotation will help them accomplish their goals long before another hitter.
Just remember Pete’s post last week about the Manhattan College study (in addition to the Yanks’ success in the late 90s) – which explains why strong starting pitching is the primary reason why the elite teams became elite teams.
“Murderer’s Row plus Cano” didn’t win a darn thing, but stacked rotations consisting of names like Pettitte, Clemens, Cone, Wells, and El Duque won several pennants and rings.
From last night’s discussion
Brian (Red Sox fan)
December 11th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Ray …. it’s not just that Manny was striking out a lot …. he missed as many fastballs as Varitek. He was swinging through average fastballs, even early in the count.
Was he disinterested? Who knows?
——————————————————————————————
Perceptions can be wrong and dangerous. I have little use for Ramirez, but, he’s a Hell of a hitter. The fact is, last year, he didn’t strike out any more than he usually does. over every 162 game stretch, Ramirez strikes out 128 times in 578 at bats. Last year, 124 strike outs in 552 at bats. Next year, he’ll pass Mantle in career strike outs in about the same number of at bats.
Progress, thesaurus.com:
action, advance, case, channels, course, course of action, development, evolution, fashion, formation, growth, manner, means, measure, mechanism, mode, modus operandi, movement, operation, outgrowth, performance, practice, procedure, proceeding, progress, progression, red tape*, routine, rule, stage, step, suit, system, technique, transaction, trial, unfolding, way, wise, working
GB – Re: your 4:30 a.m. post/reply.
You’re correct – Manny’s strikeout rate with the Sox (last year) pretty much tracked with his career ratio. I was trying to emphasize that his ability to hit a “hit me! hit me!” fastball had seriously deteriorated. His ABs were just ….. different.
Previously, it was VERY hard to get a fastball by him early in the count. If he had the pitch timed, he would rarely miss it. But that was not the case last year (with Boston).
With LA, it all miraculously returned (and then some). I needn’t go into the predominant theory for the Dodgers’ serendipity. But it does appear as though more than a few GMs are skeptical about the notion that Manny’s renaissance is a permanent commodity.
manny’s a quitter, if he belongs in NY its with the mets.
wtf are you guys doing up and posting a 2-3-4am this morning. get some sleep people!
i agree with iselsfan above… with the growing Peavy frsutration between the player and agent in SD, now is the perfect time to jump in and buy low.
id prob actually prefer to take the ultimatum money Cashman is ready to hand over to Pettitte and use that for Peavy, and still sign AJ Burnett.
Sabathia
Wang
Peavy
Burnett
Joba
you dont need to add anything to the current offensive lineup with that starting five.
im still having a hard time understanding why the O’s arent all-in on Tex! how can they even allow the chance the the Nats could steal him away and build thier team around the annapolis native? as i said yesterday, the O’s are amassing some talent, but the team has no face, no personality. Tex is the guy they need to be planting at 1B for the next 7-8 years to build the franchise around.
as far as i know, they have a bid in, but nodoby seems to think it compares to the offer from d.c., or what the saux are going to offer him. seems like the O’s are throwing out a bid they know wont be accepted just so they could say they tried.
iv always thought angelos was an ameteur at this, first trying to be steinbrenner, now wanting to be branch rickey, but this is HIS golden opportunity to reestablish the O’s as a brand and he doesnt seem to be going after it at all.
IMO Manny would dramatically change the line-up for the positive. He would be cheaper than Tex and would fill the void of the Yankee FA next year…a transition if you will threw 2009. I think signing him for 2-3yrs would be a big asset….not to mention A-rod, Jeter, Posada, Mo..aren’t getting any younger and they cannot wait for the farm system to come up with a big bat…by that time we will be looking for their replacements…
“IMO Manny would dramatically change the line-up for the positive. He would be cheaper than Tex and would fill the void of the Yankee FA next year…a transition if you will threw 2009. I think signing him for 2-3yrs would be a big asset….not to mention A-rod, Jeter, Posada, Mo..aren’t getting any younger and they cannot wait for the farm system to come up with a big bat…by that time we will be looking for their replacements”
your point is taken. Except, unless Manny is forced to get a box-cut (circa 1991/Kid N Play) then i would prefer to trade and/or sign Matt Holliday, when available.
Vtek looks gay in stripes
vinny-b (bring back Petitte and sign Sheets at 2 yrs):
Matt Holliday can not be gotten with just $$$. That is why IMO Manny is very accessible, you put him in the line-up with the pitching we now have or will have, you will have Murder’s row plus Cano, except now we will have pitching as well..
Keith Law’s Chat yesterday had this yesterday about Jackson:
“Do you think Austin Jackson will be ready by Opening Day 2010? What do you project from him?
Keith Law: First half of 2010. Above-average hitter for a CF, good range but mediocre instincts, not likely to become a star.”
Damon DH
Jeter SS
Arod 3rd
Manny LF ?
Posada C
Swisher 1st
Cameron CF
Nady RF
Cano 2nd
Hideki rotate at DH
CC
Wang
AJ ?
Pettite ?
Joba
Man this looks pretty awesome
I wouldn’t take Ramirez on the Yankees on a bet. I don’t care what he can do with a bat. It amazes that the same people that hammered Ramirez, the Red Sox and their fans about his begavior and their “I don’t care as long as he hits” attitude are becoming every bit as bad as those fans were. What will you be saying if NYY signs him and he quits on the Yanks? Laugh it off as Manny being Manny? No thanks.
Correction: about his ***behavior***
“Keith Law: First half of 2010. Above-average hitter for a CF, good range but mediocre instincts, not likely to become a star.””
Probably not an awful assessment. Doesn’t have to be a star. Most aren’t. If your system provides a solid everyday CF, which is what most believe Jackson will be, then you’ve done well for yourself.
“What will you be saying if NYY signs him and he quits on the Yanks? Laugh it off as Manny being Manny? No thanks.”
i’ll be dancing on the streets during the ticker-tape parade.. dont know if i have to say anything at all except “woo hoo.”
“Probably not an awful assessment.”
that also doesnt scream ‘untouchable’ for me, either, if someone asked for him for the right player.
Fredo, I agree. If Jackson becomes an above average CF’er both with the bat and the glove, I’ll be nore than happy.
“What will you be saying if NYY signs him and he quits on the Yanks? Laugh it off as Manny being Manny? No thanks.”
To take it a step further, yesterday’s outburst of “I’ll retire if I don’t get the deal I don’t get a good deal” is exactly the what you’re getting when you sign this 7 year old in a man’s body.
Brian (Red Sox Fan) Of the cause for Manny’s decline was strictly between his ears. Or if you ask him, it was strictly behind the front office doors. Boston got the short end of the stick when he wasn’t in the mood to play, and I hope he pays for that by having to compromise on his next contract.
My only question is, if he gets something he can live with this off season, will it ever occur to him that he could have gotten more if he didn’t tank his first half of the season (and I’m guessing various parts of seasons past) before putting put up a Ted Williams second half in LA?
David Ortiz said if Manny was there (I assume he meant Manny in his baseball playing mood) then the Sox probably could have gone all the way. Tampa still would have been tough, but I think he may have been right. I hope every GM is thinking ‘How can one guy actually cost his team that shot, and still expect to cash in with a new contract?’
“that also doesnt scream ‘untouchable’ for me, either, if someone asked for him for the right player.”
No reason to deem him untouchable, but again getting a solid every CF from your own system, under your control for six years, has considerable value.
Keith Law’s Chat yesterday had this yesterday about Jackson:
“Do you think Austin Jackson will be ready by Opening Day 2010? What do you project from him?
Keith Law: First half of 2010. Above-average hitter for a CF, good range but mediocre instincts, not likely to become a star.”
I remember watching a documentary on the life of Fred Astaire … when he first went to Hollywood, after an initial screen test, the scouting on him was, “Can’t act, can’t sing … can dance a little”.
The point is, how can anyone know for sure how a prospect is going to be … if he has enough talent to become a major leaguer, then it is foolish to dismiss the possibility that he could blossom into something more than he is “projected” to be.
“but again getting a solid every CF from your own system, under your control for six years, has considerable value.”
which is why i said for the right player… there are players worth Austin Jackson’s 6 years.
Ansky …. couldn’t agree more; well said.
When Manny went beserk (in a good way) in LA, one GM said that what Manny was getting away with was “criminal.”
Hopefully, his actions will finally have some (negative) consequences.
Phils have signed Ibanez – 3 and $30M per MLBTR
Law’s projection isn’t awful. In fact, it’s very positive. Who here wouldn’t take an above average offensive CF with a good glove?
The Phils are very Left-Handed now…
Tom
December 12th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Keith Law’s Chat yesterday had this yesterday about Jackson:
“Do you think Austin Jackson will be ready by Opening Day 2010? What do you project from him?
Keith Law: First half of 2010. Above-average hitter for a CF, good range but mediocre instincts, not likely to become a star.”
————————————————————
I disagree with law on the “mediocre instincts”. Instincts can and are learned. He’s less than 3 years into his education as a baseball player. DiMaggio/Mantle/Mays were all shortstops in the minors…bad shortstops. They learned to play center field. I’m not comparing Jackson to them. Go to You-Tube and look for the catches that he made during the 2008 AA Playoffs. Two over the fence catches in the same game and one catch into the gaps to snare a triple. Will he throw to the wrong base on occassion? Yes, but, like everyone else, he’ll learn and he’ll learn not to throw to a base when he has no chance and allowing another runner to move up. Will he make mistakes on the bases? Yes, but that’s why he’s in the minors and why NYY has no intention to rush him to NYY. By the way….Bernie Williams was not exactly the most instinctive player in baseball….just extremely talented and athletic. Jackson still has a lot of basketball plyer in him. Full ride scholalorships to Southern Illinois and Georgia Tech.
GreenBeret7:
I’m not saying he is a role model, but i doubt it very much he would quit on the Yanks, he is looking for his legacy to leave behind. I’m not saying I love him, but for 2-3yrs, if the Yanks landed him, with the “new” rotation and the age’s of A-rod, Jeter, Mo, Posada…I dare to say we would be a very serious contender to win the WS…Say what you will but Manny fills seats..Deing a Yanks fan for 40yrs, with some of the signings in the past, I’m not looking for a role model just another ring.
Damon DH
Jeter SS
Arod 3rd
Manny LF ?
Posada C
Swisher 1st
Cameron CF
Nady RF
Cano 2nd
CC
Wang
AJ ?
Pettite ?
Joba
Man this looks pretty awesome
—–
I could live with that though I prefer Tex for the defense, plate patience, character and longevity he brings. I also like the fact that we keep him away from Boston and stick it in their face. 8yrs for 185 mill might do it.
We can absolutely afford either of them and we absolutely need another bat in that line up.
Playing small ball as some have suggested with our current line up is doable especially with Girardi as the manager, but we don’t have enough speed and we need 1 more bopper to support Arod in the line up.
I will live with either of the two and we will get one.
Fredo
When you think about it that is 10 mil per year what a dramatic drop off for a corner outfielder if he gets that maybe and that is a big abreu makes what he made last year. He is looking a a nice paycut. He chose the wrong year to become a free agent and when you think about it he is a really nice offensive player but he defense has declined and he will be lucky to get a 3 year deal someone I amsure will give it to himbut surely not anywhere near 16 mill he was getting. Once again I think it shows if the Yanks had offered arbitration he would surely have taken it.
Attitude: Manny got sick of the Redsux……so be it…
Let’s face it there have been worse players than Manny that have worn pin stripes.
Brian (Red Sox Fan) IMO if Theo & company haven’t been a little collusive against Manny since they dumped him, they should be. I’m not saying they have been, but if they wanted to do that he would certainly have it coming. Considering what he got away with, they may not have to be.
YankeeRay:
I agree and like Tex better, I’m just not sure the yanks will go the years required to get, but Cashman has been doing a helluva job so far this off-season..we’ll see
“By the way….Bernie Williams was not exactly the most instinctive player in baseball….just extremely talented and athletic.”
Someone in the same chat later asked how he compared to Williams. Law’s answer was Williams was a star (and not recognized nearly enough for that) and Jackson doesn’t project to that level. Still, nothing wrong with a solid everyday CF.
Tim Clougher
December 12th, 2008 at 9:07 am
GreenBeret7:
I’m not saying he is a role model, but i doubt it very much he would quit on the Yanks, he is looking for his legacy to leave behind. I’m not saying I love him, but for 2-3yrs, if the Yanks landed him, with the “new” rotation and the age’s of A-rod, Jeter, Mo, Posada…I dare to say we would be a very serious contender to win the WS…Say what you will but Manny fills seats..Deing a Yanks fan for 40yrs, with some of the signings in the past, I’m not looking for a role model just another ring.
————————————————————
Ramirez’ legacy is “Manny being Manny” and “what could have been if”. That will never change. He’s a dog on the field, unless he has a bat in his hand and he’s a dog in the clubhouse. Why else is it that only the Dodgers have a bid on him, until the other day. Nobody else is willing to deal with him…..unless they’re stupid.
In the Rule 5 draft . . . . . . .
Yankees lost four:
Reggie Corona (Seattle)
Zach Kroenke (Florida)
Jason Jones (Minnesota)
Ivan Nova (San Diego)
Gayle:
Ibanez has never made as much as $6M a season in his life, so I’m sure he’s fine with this deal. Abreu is younger than Ibanez and a better bat. Might even be better defensively than Ibanez, though that’s akin to being the tallest man at a dwarf festival.
I think Abreu definitely takes a cut in pay, but I think he can get 3 years and $35M or so from someone.
Fredo Corleone
December 12th, 2008 at 9:13 am
“By the way….Bernie Williams was not exactly the most instinctive player in baseball….just extremely talented and athletic.”
Someone in the same chat later asked how he compared to Williams. Law’s answer was Williams was a star (and not recognized nearly enough for that) and Jackson doesn’t project to that level. Still, nothing wrong with a solid everyday CF.
————————————————————
Jackson will be a superior center fielder to the young version of Bernie Williams…much better arm…he’s a better, more knowledgable base runner thn Williams. He may not have Bernie williams world class sprinter’s speed but he’ll stel a lot more bases than Williams did. He most likely won’t be the hitter that Williams was, but, not all that different. He has the power to hit 18-22 homers and like Williams, on occassion may surprise everyone with a 25 and 30 homer season…but not always. He’s a line drive hitter.
how do you manny people say with a straight face that you think you know that manny wont quit on whoever he plays for next? its worse than just quitting, its becoming a total clubhouse cancer. his teammates basically voted him off the team! there is no way you can predict whether he will or wont unless it happens, and its way too big a risk to even contemplate.
and im quite confident that cash and the steins have no interest whatsoever.
Fredo,
If thats the case with Abreu then Cashman made a mistake to not offer him arbitration. Ibanez was a type A and the Phillies still signed him.
Brad
December 12th, 2008 at 9:18 am
In the Rule 5 draft . . . . . . .
Yankees lost four:
Reggie Corona (Seattle)
Zach Kroenke (Florida)
Jason Jones (Minnesota)
Ivan Nova (San Diego)
————————————————————
They lost 6 players…5 were pitchers. One was Josue Selanes (RHP) (Oakland) and Andres Santos (LHP) (Pittsburgh)
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p;c_id=nyy
GB, would you take your time with Jackson? Say, start him off in Trenton let him get 150-200 ABs there then move him to Scranton? Kind of like the did to him in ‘07 when he started of on the River Dogs even though he played a full season there the year before.
GB7,
I see Austin Jackson as more of a Torii Hunter type player. A better fielder than Williams but not as good a hitter.
I’d love to have Manny replace Matsui now rather than have to commit long term to Holliday or Teixeira. The window for this team to win a world series is 3 years. Sabathia can opt out in 3. Jeter is done at shortstop in 3. Posada is gone in 3. Mo is gone in 2. Arod will be 36.
Coincidentally, Manny will likely get a 3 year deal.
Teixiera and/or Holliday would remain Yankees for 5,6 or 7, leaving the prime of their careers while the Yankees are undergoing a massive rebuilding phase. The amount of risk that will be surrounding Tex or Holliday at that point could be so great that it totally dilutes the value of their contracts and robs the team of cash they may need to buy younger, more able players on the open market as part of the restructuring.
This is looking very much like those classic win-now teams of Poppa Steinbrenner. It is what it is.
Patrick:
I noticed that. As I look at it harder, Ibanez has been at least Abreu’s equal offesnively over the past few years. I’d think that Abreu still has more appeal due to not requiring compensation. Guess we can’t totally judge it til Abreu is locked up somwwhere.
Tom
December 12th, 2008 at 9:31 am
GB, would you take your time with Jackson? Say, start him off in Trenton let him get 150-200 ABs there then move him to Scranton? Kind of like the did to him in ‘07 when he started of on the River Dogs even though he played a full season there the year before.
————————————————————
I’d make the decision on where he starts after spring training. If he struggles, maybe starting at AA, but, I think he’ll be fine in Scranton. Unless there’s an emergency, he needs to stay there all year….maybe get a couple of at bats in September in NY. He still has a few things to work on.
Patrick
December 12th, 2008 at 9:32 am
GB7,
I see Austin Jackson as more of a Torii Hunter type player. A better fielder than Williams but not as good a hitter.
————————————————————
A tough call. I thought more like a right handed version of Curtis Granderson.
If Ibanez made 16 million last year instead of 6 would the M’s offer him arbitration?
“I thought more like a right handed version of Curtis Granderson.”
idk, those are some pretty lofty expectations.
“If Ibanez made 16 million last year instead of 6 would the M’s offer him arbitration?”
If he made $16M, he would been playing for someone other than the Mariners.
The answer to your question, Tom, is probably not.
Correction: would HAVE been
Bret the Hitman:
I agree, but of the two Matt or Tex if they were to get him “Tex” you could start to build around later for the transition..but we are built to win now, offense wise..
“how do you manny people say with a straight face that you think you know that manny wont quit on whoever he plays for next?”
Sounds like I’m the only one with this sentiment but whatever… personally I’m happy he quit on his team. His team had a terrible personality (why else would he punch YouGaylis?) and their fans and the city is racist. I would quit on that team too. Who needs em?
I would love to see Jeter go out with a couple more rings…
“A tough call. I thought more like a right handed version of Curtis Granderson.”
GB, you go to a lot of Charleston games right? I’m sure you’ve seen Jackson play a lot more than me but if he is ever as good as Granderson I will be shocked. Granderson is one of the best CF’s in the league. I’d put him on the same level as Sizemore and Beltran.
Granderson had a .922 OPS in the Eastern league when he was there and then a .874 OPS in AAA. Jackson was .773 OPS in AA last year which is a lot worse than Granderson. I just don’t see Jackson ever being as good as Granderson.
TurnTwo
December 12th, 2008 at 9:45 am
“I thought more like a right handed version of Curtis Granderson.”
idk, those are some pretty lofty expectations.
————————————————————
Jackson is just now at the age that Granderson started. Granderson had a little more power than Jackson at that age, but, Jackson has the speed and base stealing skills over Granderson. Gefense at this stage of their minor league careers is pretty even. People are going to love him scaling the center field walls. Fenway will be the only one he can’t outjump.
Patrick
December 12th, 2008 at 9:50 am
“A tough call. I thought more like a right handed version of Curtis Granderson.”
GB, you go to a lot of Charleston games right? I’m sure you’ve seen Jackson play a lot more than me but if he is ever as good as Granderson I will be shocked. Granderson is one of the best CF’s in the league. I’d put him on the same level as Sizemore and Beltran.
Granderson had a .922 OPS in the Eastern league when he was there and then a .874 OPS in AAA. Jackson was .773 OPS in AA last year which is a lot worse than Granderson. I just don’t see Jackson ever being as good as Granderson.
————————————————————
That’s why I say that there is no hurry to move him to NY. He’s just beginning to learn the finer points of baseball. He was always a basketball player first and played baseball to have fun. A .356 career OBP as a 21 year old is pretty impressive.
I still maintain that there’s an added benefit to Manny returning to the Dodgers. Their outfield with Manny is overcrowded and they would likely explore trades for Matt Kemp since Ethier led their team in hitting and Jones and Pierre to a lesser extent are unmovable contracts.
We could still be proactive about the leadoff position by trading Cano for Kemp and bringing in Furcal. In this scenario, the Yankees would need to move Damon instead of Matsui which seems more acheiveable. Since Damon can leadoff and still play the field and his no-trade is only partial, we’d receive more talent in return than we would Matsui. I know Kenny Williams really likes Damon.
The bonus of having Furcal in 2009 is that we’d have a leadoff hitter to replace Damon ahead of schedule and we’d still remain open to the possibility of signing Holliday to replace Nady after 2009.
I think either way we can get Manny and deal Matsui
OR
We can acuire our new leadoff hitter now in Furcal, deal Damon and sign Holliday after 2009.
If Manny returns to LA, here’s what our lineup could look like in ‘09 and 2010:
Rafael Furcal-2b
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Hideki Matsui-dh
Matt Kemp-lf
Jorge Posada-c
Nick Swisher-1b
Xavier Nady-rf
Cameron/Gardner-cf
2010
Rafael Furcal-2b
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Matt Holliday-lf/rf
Jorge Posada-dh
Matt Kemp-lf/rf
Nick Swisher-1b
Austin Jackson-cf
???-c
Russell NY:
I agree, I don’t think he will quit on his next team, and I never cared when he wouldn’t play for the Redsux…didn’t bother me in the least..
Jackson has yet to learn how to lift and pull the ball. That was never his style. A minor adjustment will correct that. Don’t forget…he’s been playing in pitcher’s leagues for 3 years.
the Yankees arent signing Furcal.
GB7,
You make some good points. Granderson didn’t debut in the majors until he was 23 and he didn’t become a regular starter until he was 25. You are right, there’s no point in rushing Jackson. With his high level of athleticism there’s no telling how good he could become.
I’m still not convinced Jackson will ever be at Granderson’s level but I’m still excited to see him play and get better.
I’ve never seen Jackson play, but if he’s anything like the 4, that Patrick and GB7 say…Wow….
Forget Furcal playing second base. He’s a lousy fielder with a scatter arm. He has a long swing and American League fastballers will eat him alive.
The Yanks won’t trade Robbie either…
Burnett deal all but done? Don’t know if this was posted yet but here is what was said:
“Talking to a Yankee recently, A.J. Burnett informed the player they were going to be teammates.
“He wants to come to New York – those words came out of his mouth,” the player told The Post last night. “He really wants to play here.”
From all indications, Burnett will join CC Sabathia at the top of the Yankee rotation, and the deal could be sealed as early as today. ”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....143873.htm
It’s sounding more and more likely that Burnett will sign with the Yanks. This is from the New York Post:
An unidentified Yankee revealed Wednesday that A.J. Burnett said the two were going to be teammates next season.
“He wants to come to New York – those words came out of his mouth,” the player said last night. “He really wants to play here.” The New York Post believes that a deal could be agreed upon as early as Friday.
Link: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....143873.htm
The Yankees feel that $10 million is overpaying for Pettitte, again from the post:
According to an unnamed team executive, the Yankees feel they are overpaying Andy Pettitte with their one-year, $10 million offer and are perplexed as to why he won’t accept it.
“In the real world, Andy is probably now an $8 million a year pitcher at most,” said the exec. “We are willing to pay $2 million more because we love him, because he is a Yankee and we want it to stay that way.” GM Brian Cashman may have relayed that sentiment to Pettitte in their face-to-face meeting Tuesday.
Blackdragon you beat me by seconds!
Tim Clougher
December 12th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I’ve never seen Jackson play, but if he’s anything like the 4, that Patrick and GB7 say…Wow….
————————————————————
Hey…he could flop and be`come Steve Whitacker, too. This is only what I’ve seen from him. Same with the 2008 kids from Charleston. Unless Romine’s pitch blocking improves, he may be the one to be moving to a new position. Montero is, as of right now, the better defensive catcher. If both Romine and Montero continue their progress the way they’ve started, one of them will be in Trenton by mid year 2009. Same with Laird, though, he still needs some work at first (but, he’s good) and learning to take more pitches just off the plate. The thing is, he doesn’t strike out…he doesn’t walk a lot, either.
“I would love to see Jeter go out with a couple more rings…”
Why just Jeter? Team sport, team rewards.
If that’s true another huge piece to the puzzle by Cashman..this would be awesome..
pat:
Sorry your correct, I just put the Captain 1st..Of course I would love to see them all get a ring…
GB7:
Well if AJ pans out to close of the 4 you Patrick mentioned that would be a real good home grown CF’r…
“I’ve never seen Jackson play, but if he’s anything like the 4, that Patrick and GB7 say…Wow….”
I’ve seen him in Trenton, he’s extremely athletic, a bit raw but what 21 yr. old position player isn’t. You see him run from 1st to 3rd he reminds you of Bernie, you see him pull a ball and drive it to left field he reminds you of Sori. He just learned to pull a ball w/ authority has been in every pitcher’s league for the majority of his minor league career and plays in a tough ball park for righties to be able to hit HR. Put it this way athletically not much is missing from him, Cleveland’s AA minor league team to this day will tell you if he wasn’t patrolling CF in the 08′ AA playoffs Trenton wouldn’t have won the AA championship, same thing for Red Sox AA players/coachs..he was called and deemed “Superman” in that OF. If he can start off hot and learn the strike zone a bit better he’s can be anything from Granderson to Dawson.
Coincidently the guy that got his career rolling and developed his swing is the guy that this thread update is about.
Sorry Pat,
Just beat you lol!!!
If the Yankees front office deems Cano a keeper and Furcal a risky investment for whatever reason then we will see Manny Ramirez in pinstripes.
There are some limitations though.
Signing Manny to DH for 3 years forces Posada behind the plate for 2009, 2010 and 2011.
It also probably means no Matt Holliday starting in 2010.
Also, not trading Cano for Kemp in order to create a roster spot for Furcal at 2b leaves you with Jeter as a leadoff hitter in 2010.
And finally trading Matsui to make room for Manny instead of Damon to make room for Furcal brings back far less in a trade.
But for the sake of fairness, here’s what our lineup could like if the Yankees hold Cano and Damon while trading Matsui to make room for Manny:
Johnny Damon-lf
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Manny Ramirez-dh
Jorge Posada-c
Xavier Nady-rf
Robinson Cano-2b
Nick Swisher-1b
Gardner/Cameron-cf
2010
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Manny Ramirez-dh
Jorge Posada-c
Xavier Nady-rf
Robinson Cano-2b
Nick Swisher-1b
Austin Jackson-cf
???-lf
RE Keith Laws AJax eval.
1.) I’ve seen AJax and agree with GB, he looks very good.
2.) You can tell how good a prospect is during trade talks (real trades, not salary dumps). If other teams ask for a player, he’s good.
3.) Law knows more about prospects then I do, he does this for pay, but he’s no where near the best at it or he’d be during it for a team still, not working at ESPN. As anyone with a brain can see, ESPN has a bit of an anti Yankee bias, and their employees reflect that.
“3.) Law knows more about prospects then I do, he does this for pay, but he’s no where near the best at it or he’d be during it for a team still, not working at ESPN. As anyone with a brain can see, ESPN has a bit of an anti Yankee bias, and their employees reflect that”
Anyone who reads Law knows he has virtually zero bias one way or another. Seems a tad intolerant of idiots, but that’s about it.
Scooped all week!
CC? Asleep.
Cameron? Asleep.
Hit the craps table Big Pete, you earned your pay this week…lol
Here’s baseball America’s take on Jackson (VIA waswatching)
“Jackson’s greatest weakness may be what he’s not: a classic Yankees center fielder. He’s no DiMaggio or Mantle, or even Bernie Williams. Jackson lacks a standout tool but earns future grades of solid-average to plus across the board. His all-around ability fits the profile of a center fielder on a championship team, similar to Williams but with less power and better defense.”
http://waswatching.com/2008/11.....n-jackson/
Bret-
You are relentless.
Law doesn’t suffer fools well. Other than that, he seems doesn’t like a person who has an anti-Yankee bias. He’s fair and he does his job well.
Well maybe we won’t get Andy, who’ed thought…
oops -He doesn’t seem….
“Well maybe we won’t get Andy, who’ed thought…”
maybe it might work out for the better. there are other options who are better pitchers at this stage of their respective careers than Pettitte.
“Do you think Austin Jackson will be ready by Opening Day 2010? What do you project from him?
Keith Law: First half of 2010. Above-average hitter for a CF, *good range but mediocre instincts, not likely to become a star*.”
——————
Are people talking about this ? If so I think there’s nothing wrong w/ what Keith said, I’d say it’s spot on. Action is a guy that if your not there to watch him it’s hard to get a feel for him. Not saying Law hasn’t been in Trenton but “not likely to become a star” doesn’t dismiss that he still could become a star. I bet we saw reports similiar to this about our SS and look at him now after 1,777 AB in minor league ball he had a combined amount of 16 HR, deemed a bust from some people’s view. Just saying give Austin his time, I keep getting that feeling when I watch him in AA games that he’s the next one.
Buddy,
Say the Dodgers are in a position to either sign Manny or let him go to us without putting up much of a fight.
It’s simple.
If they sign Manny, there outfield situation is such that they will trade Kemp.
If they lose Manny to us they will keep Kemp from us.
Pick your lineup with either Kemp or Manny.
Here are the Kemp 2009 and 2010 lineups.
Rafael Furcal-2b
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Hideki Matsui-dh
Matt Kemp-lf
Jorge Posada-c
Nick Swisher-1b
Xavier Nady-rf
Cameron/Gardner-cf
2010
Rafael Furcal-2b
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Matt Holliday-lf/rf
Jorge Posada-dh
Matt Kemp-lf/rf
Nick Swisher-1b
Austin Jackson-cf
???-c
And the Manny lineups 2009 and 2010
Johnny Damon-lf
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Manny Ramirez-dh
Jorge Posada-c
Xavier Nady-rf
Robinson Cano-2b
Nick Swisher-1b
Gardner/Cameron-cf
2010
Derek Jeter-ss
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Manny Ramirez-dh
Jorge Posada-c
Xavier Nady-rf
Robinson Cano-2b
Nick Swisher-1b
Austin Jackson-cf
???-lf
Burnett will sign today and Cameron should be a yankee today as well.
I would also expect Andy to relent and jump on board soon.
We are almost done now.
We need bench depth and 1 more bat.
Options for the bat: Manny,Tex,Dunn,Abreu or another trade.
If we go with the big bat then we need to move someone. I say Matsui should be moved for a prospect and pay part of his salary.
Getting Tex allows us to move Damon to DH and play Swish in Rf and Nady in LF. That would give us a much better defensive team than we have now. Some of the Cameron clips on here last night were pretty impressive.
As stated the past 2 weeks we need to go into new stadium with 3 yr plan to win. Not getting the bat now will put us in a position where we could be saying in September that we missed out again on the big FA like we did Beltran. We will see Tex potentially 18 times a year like we watch Beltran and shake our heads.
Tex is the perfect fit and Manny the risky consolation.
The reports that said our payroll will be lower is as reliable as the “we are ok with Melk/Gard/Bubba as our CF next year” quote.
Cmon Cash finish the deal. Go for the kill on the Sox and open the stadium in style.
Tom
December 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Here’s baseball America’s take on Jackson (VIA waswatching)
“Jackson’s greatest weakness may be what he’s not: a classic Yankees center fielder. He’s no DiMaggio or Mantle, or even Bernie Williams. Jackson lacks a standout tool but earns future grades of solid-average to plus across the board. His all-around ability fits the profile of a center fielder on a championship team, similar to Williams but with less power and better defense.”
http://waswatching.com/2008/11.....n-jackson/
————————————————————
If he was only a switch hitting center fielder….or, at least a left handed hitting one. That’s one thing the system is short on…left handed power hitters. Seth Fortenberry is one of the few, besides Miranda.
“Well maybe we won’t get Andy, who’ed thought”
haven’t heard anything which states he’s not coming back.
“If they sign Manny, there outfield situation is such that they will trade Kemp. ”
This jump in logic is incorrect in my opinion. Matt Kemp is their most valuable position player, they aren’t going to trade him. If the Dodgers sign Manny they will look to move Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones.
Brandon, I agree. Law’s take on Jackson is positive. Who here would be disapointed if Jackson becomes the player Law thinks he may become: an above average hitter with good range?
They see the “not likely to become a star” and scream “BIAS!”
Patrick,
Their outfield with Manny is overcrowded and they would likely explore trades for Matt Kemp since Ethier led their team in hitting and Jones and Pierre to a lesser extent are unmovable contracts.
“Anyone who reads Law knows he has virtually zero bias one way or another. Seems a tad intolerant of idiots, but that’s about it.”
Clearly you disagree, however, I’ve yet to hear or read Law speak positively of a Yankee prospect, though he may have, I haven’t read everything he’s written.
I think he under values Yankee prospects and over hypes Red Sox. Maybe that’s just me. And I’m no fan boy, I’ve been killed here before writing against IPK in fall after 2007 season and Alan Horne this spring.
Heyman still believes Manny gets 75-100 million.
don’t know who’s giving it to him, unless Anaheim doesn’t get Tex.
Now that Ibanez has been signed, Pierre is an option for the Mutts again.
“They see the “not likely to become a star” and scream “BIAS!” ”
2 yrs ago I would have said the same thing but an above average hitting CF is what you want him to become in his first step, everyone from Pittsburgh to Colorado to San Diego to Minnesota to Cleveland to etc. The first name was usually Hughes the 2nd name that always follows is Jackson. And when Cleveland is doing that you got really think about it because they don’t churn out scrubs. They already have Sizemore and have one of the best scouts in baseball, when Milwaukee is asking for him again same thing. I think this year might be not positive but this year might be his breakout year.
“Their outfield with Manny is overcrowded and they would likely explore trades for Matt Kemp since Ethier led their team in hitting and Jones and Pierre to a lesser extent are unmovable contracts.”
No they won’t. First of all, Jones is unmovable but Pierre is not. They aren’t moving Kemp just because Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones get paid a lot of money. That would be the height of stupidity.
If the Dodgers trade Pierre, they’ll need to re-sign Furcal to bat leadoff. If they re-sign Furcal, that really limits them in regards to their pursuit of Manny. I don’t know if they’d risk it.
forget Kemp and Ethier. they wont go anywhere.
there’s only one year left on Jones’s contract, i think, and Pierre is just going have to sit on the bench and make his however many millions the easy way. thats how they solve that dilemma.
and even if they were to get moved, its a bit presumptuous to think that they are just getting traded to the Yankees, no?
If you’re going to move Matsui for a prospect, you’re probably going to eat ALL of his salary given the current economic situation. I don’t see the Yankees offering that deal.
As it has been stated on here numerous times Heyman is Boras’s mouth piece.
Wily Taveras is a FA today.
“Heyman still believes Manny gets 75-100 million. ”
He believes that because Scott Boras told him to believe it. Heyman is an embarrassment, I have no idea how this guy has a job. He is like a tape recorder for Scott Boras’ propaganda.
“As it has been stated on here numerous times Heyman is Boras’s mouth piece”
tru. You right.
I prefer Buster Onley.
YankeeRay:
I agree Cashman has done a great job, but landing a big bat will seal the deal…man if it was Tex..let me stop…we cannot afford to let this year get away with what could of been if we got the bat in Sept….
I think Manny would take 3yrs 60mill to play for us, just MO
So where are we w/ Sheets ? I know we love Andy but part of me is hoping he hangs them, because he sounds scared. You have 10 million that’s already being over paid for his age and what he gave last season. Cash needs to tell 24/48 hrs. lets go we have priorities, it’s not a tough decision DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT !
Well, as late as September 25 of this year Law said this about Hughes:
“Is a Hughes for Votto trade fair? Who wins?
Keith Law: No, I’d much rather have Hughes.”
One thing to remember about Law is that he’s a former Baseball Prospectus guy who value’s OBP over any other stat. If Ajax was getting on base at a .370-.300 clip in the minors, Law would rate him higher…
Sheets AND Burnett? I don’t think the Yanks can afford that.. We are offering Pettitte 10 mil for a reason.
Sheets over Andy would be nice. Hughes over Andy just as good.
Patrick:
I read the Yanks were considering 2yrs and 26mill for Sheets if they don’t get Lowe or Pettite.
“I don’t think the Yanks can afford that..”
dont let them fool you. they can afford it.
especially if they sign Sheets instead of Pettitte… you prob only have to throw in an extra million or two per year to pull in Sheets over Pettitte’s AAV.
Patrick:
That is with CC and AJ signed…
“Sheets AND Burnett? I don’t think the Yanks can afford that.. We are offering Pettitte 10 mil for a reason.”
We can’t afford Andy fizzling out like he did last season. Look I love this guy but he needs to make a decision quick, me I wouldn’t sign him, he broke down in the 2nd half for a reason, he’s not in his prime anymore, there’s a point where age catches up and that’s getting dangerously close for him.
assuming Burnett is signed. If Andy doesn’t return, i hope the slot is filled via internal options (Aceves, Hughes, etc).
Brandon (SHOW SHEETS THE MONEEEEEEEEY !, CC’s a Yank !)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
December 12th, 2008 at 10:53 am
So where are we w/ Sheets ? I know we love Andy but part of me is hoping he hangs them, because he sounds scared. You have 10 million that’s already being over paid for his age and what he gave last season. Cash needs to tell 24/48 hrs. lets go we have priorities, it’s not a tough decision DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT !
—–
Haven’t heard a word from sheets on his stance. For all we know he is like the rest of them looking for 4-5 yrs at 15-18 per. We all speculate that we can get hm for 13 mill for 2 yrs.
Andy has pride but will come. After all he is 36 like Lowe and Lowe is asking for 18 for 4. Andy has to think he is in that class regardless of his poor second half last year, wouldn’t you?
I think Cash would have offered him 10 mill with some reachable incentives that also gets us what we need out of him. Maybe 26 starts, 200 innings, 13-15 wins, something like that to get him some more money. JMO.
who gets traded for nonames to make room on the roster – duncan, christian and britton? as for the rule V, i see only kroenke possibly lasting a full year on a 40 man, but i don’t think we take back jones. if cashman gets sabathia, burnett, cameron and swisher and keeps the top kids, then i’d have to say his reupping was justified even to his worst detractors here! sneaking cox, horne and whelan through could definitely have a real upside for us in the future, either as players or as trade bait.
“We can’t afford Andy fizzling out like he did last season. Look I love this guy but he needs to make a decision quick, me I wouldn’t sign him, he broke down in the 2nd half for a reason, he’s not in his prime anymore, there’s a point where age catches up and that’s getting dangerously close for him”
He still have it. Andy basically pitched like he always does (velocity, stuff, movement, didn’t decline). In the majority of unimpressive starts he had, he was always one pitch away from bein out of trouble. He wasn’t off by much.
“We can’t afford Andy fizzling out like he did last season…he broke down in the 2nd half for a reason, he’s not in his prime anymore, there’s a point where age catches up and that’s getting dangerously close for him.”
If Pettitte does return, though, he will probably be under less pressure to make all of his starts than he was in 2008, as a result of bringing CC and AJ/Lowe/whoever into the fold. and the presumed health of CMW. The rotation is covered by more proven veterans, so if Andy’s elbow or shoulder start barking there will hopefully be enough wiggle room for him to shut it down for a few weeks and try to heal. That is, of course, presuming that the rotation isn’t ravaged by injuries, and some of the young hurlers emerge in Scranton as capable mid-season replacements.
vinny-b (bring back Petitte and sign Sheets at 2 yrs)
December 12th, 2008 at 10:59 am
assuming Burnett is signed. If Andy doesn’t return, i hope the slot is filled via internal options (Aceves, Hughes, etc).
—–
I agree with this. It would give us more money for Tex. The only problem with this is that Joba is being limited on innings and Hughes is probably being held back to pitch some of those. Now if they are completely confident in Aceves then you can use him for that fill in role.
Bottom line is if you go this route then our offense and defense will be better and allow us to nurture our 4 and 5 guys through the season.
But for the 10 mill on Pettite, I would go that route and use Hughes as 6th man and Aceves if there is an injury.
ut of course in any scenario I would still sign Tex
Here is the refence for Andy, Lowe, and Sheets:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....6920.story
YankeeRay:
Most of what we write as bloggers is speculation anyway isn’t it.
Can you hear Sterling on the Home Run call ” A Text message from Texeira”
Seriously, I agree that there is a 3 yr plan, but you can’t start completely over after 3 yrs. Tex, Ajax, Montero and all of the young pitchers will be our building blocks around the longer term plan.
Did I say sign Tex yet
Tim Clougher –
Manny may eventually have to settle on about the annual amount he was going to get in Boston, and he may have to settle for less. Of course, he may get a little more and he may get 3 -5 years. The questions are whether a team should or would offer a raise or ‘extension’ on those last two years of his Boston contract. I hope not. Certainly I hope not by this NY team.
It would be great to have him decide between taking a huge pay cut for his actions and pouting into ‘retirement’ rather than not admit the consequences of his actions.
Back when John Lester threw his no-hitter I was happy for him but not for the Sox. I don’t root for the Sox, but in this case I side with the Sox rather than Manny on who was wrong on their battle. If he gets short changed on his next contract and its a little moral victory for the Sox, well that’s good for them and bad for Manny. And when all is said and done, IMO, they can go back to their proper place behind NY in the standings for all I care.
Tim Clougher
December 12th, 2008 at 11:10 am
YankeeRay:
Most of what we write as bloggers is speculation anyway isn’t it.
—
Yes as we speculated on Burnett. Speculation to reality is what we all dream about though isn’t it?
Alot of what we are doing is planning here as fantasy GM’s. The difference on Sheets is that there has been no offers that have substantiated the fact that he would be willing to accept 13 per for 2yrs. We know approximately about where Burnett and Lowe are on their offers. Nothing yet on Sheets.
I don’t know why Garland name hasn’t come up..not a bad 4th man..
The Yankees are really REALLY playing hardball with Andy.
They must be feeling confident in Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy and McAllister.
Hughes AFL and Kennedy’s dominance in Puerto Rico could be fatoring in here.
To save that 10 million on Pettitte is a huge deal because it completely neutralizes the 10 million assumed in the Cameron deal.
YankeeRay:
Good point as the fantasy GM, i would pull the trigger on Tex because of the overall package he presents..Manny as consolation if Texs sign somewhere else.
ANSKY:
I respect your view, but thi line-up needs some thunder, and insurance for Hideki and Jorge…if we don’t sign a proven bat, and they don’t stay healthy..IMO we will be in trouble..
I got this from FOX Sports. I didn’t know that the 40 man roster was the Team $200M salary thing. As you can see by the stars (*) these salaries are gone & that is where the $88M comes from. The Bronx Banter had a good writeup on this, but basically $88M minus $5M in salary increases to Wang, Bruney & Cano leaves $83M/yr to be split with CC ($23M), AJ ($17M), AP ($10M), & whoever ($33M). Now couple that with Damon & Matsui next year off the books & it adds $26M more. (Note, both players could still be resigned for less money as well.) [So Sheets, Tex & Manny would total about $53M) which is less than the $59M basically still available.]
2008 Payroll NYY
Player Salary
Alex Rodriguez $28,000,000
Jason Giambi $23,428,571
Derek Jeter $21,600,000
Bobby Abreu $16,000,000
Andy Pettitte $16,000,000
Mariano Rivera $15,000,000
Jorge Posada $13,100,000
Johnny Damon $13,000,000
Hideki Matsui $13,000,000
Mike Mussina $11,071,029
Carl Pavano $11,000,000
Kyle Farnsworth $5,916,666
Chien-Ming Wang $4,000,000
LaTroy Hawkins $3,750,000
Robinson Cano $3,000,000
Jose Molina $1,875,000
Morgan Ensberg $1,750,000
Andrew Brackman $1,184,788
Wilson Betemit $1,165,000
Brian Bruney $725,000
Billy Traber $500,000
Melky Cabrera $461,200
Phil Hughes $406,350
Shelley Duncan $398,300
Sean Henn $397,448
Ian Kennedy $394,275
Jeffrey Karstens $393,300
Jon Albaladejo $393,225
Ross Ohlendorf $391,425
Joba Chamberlain $390,000
Humberto Sanchez $390,000
Total $209,081,577
I guess we’re off to new thread
Sorry I left off the (*).
Alex Rodriguez $28,000,000
(*)Jason Giambi $23,428,571
Derek Jeter $21,600,000
(*)Bobby Abreu $16,000,000
(*)Andy Pettitte $16,000,000
Mariano Rivera $15,000,000
Jorge Posada $13,100,000
Johnny Damon $13,000,000
Hideki Matsui $13,000,000
(*)Mike Mussina $11,071,029
(*)Carl Pavano $11,000,000
(*)Kyle Farnsworth $5,916,666
Chien-Ming Wang $4,000,000
(*)LaTroy Hawkins $3,750,000
Robinson Cano $3,000,000
Jose Molina $1,875,000
(*)Morgan Ensberg $1,750,000
Andrew Brackman $1,184,788
(*)Wilson Betemit $1,165,000
Brian Bruney $725,000
(*)Billy Traber $500,000
Melky Cabrera $461,200
Phil Hughes $406,350
Shelley Duncan $398,300
(*)Sean Henn $397,448
Ian Kennedy $394,275
(*)Jeffrey Karstens $393,300
Jon Albaladejo $393,225
(*)Ross Ohlendorf $391,425
Joba Chamberlain $390,000
Humberto Sanchez $390,000
Total$209,081,577
Some of you should really knock off all the Andy bashing. He gave a lot more to this team than that stiff Cano did last year who you all defend like he’s a lock All Star yet had to be “motivated” in order to play.
Andy pitches through pain and his first 1/2 last season was very good. A 4.5 ERA in the AL East isn’t something to sneeze at.
Not to mention if the offense showed up some days and weren’t white knuckling the bats, Andy would have won more games with his stuff.
I like Sheets stuff, but if we sign him instead of Andy and he hits the DL and needs elbow surgery (a big possibility) you will all be ripping Cashman for signing him.