Burnett down to two: Yanks or Braves
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2008 
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According to agent Darek Branecker, right-hander A.J. Burnett is in the process of deciding whether he will play for the Braves or Yankees.
It’s easy to predict that he will sign with the Yankees given these reasons:
— The Yankees will probably offer more money.
— New York is closer to where Burnett lives in Maryland. His wife does not like to fly and drives to games. Playing 84 games in New York and another nine in Baltimore would be easier on their family.
— You hear from people who know Burnett well that he does not embrace the idea of being “the man” and would rather just be one of the guys. Bobby Abreu is that way. If he signs with the Braves, it’ll be a momentous thing for Atlanta and he’ll be expected to lead them back into contention. With the Yankees, Burnett would be just another face in a room full of stars.
We should hear something soon on this, on the trade with Milwaukee and on Andy Pettitte.
He is sitting in his study with pipe, smoking jacket and listening to Wagner.
The Ride of the Valkyries, no doubt.
AJ Burnett is a very talented pitcher. What do you think about this potential signing, Peter?
I think he’s jamming with his bandmates.
I wonder if he’s blocked Johnny’s calls?
Maybe he’ll take the weekend to think about it? Announcement’s rarely happen on the weekend right?
Cameron’s deal will go down first, then AJ, then Andy will decide (not saying he’s coming back, not for the reported $10M)
Well those were the only offer’s……..
oh, I hope you’re not jinxing it!
I say they will be announced by this evening..AJ, Cameron and Andy..at least I hope Andy….
Wagner was an anti-semite
Okay, now not wanting to be “the man” due to feeling like there is too much pressure OR you’re just a low key type of guy are 2 totally different things.
The 1st one is a bad sign and tells me you’ll crack under the pressure in NY. The 2nd one is that you just want to go about your business and won’t let anything phase you.
So which personality type is Burnett? I have no real knowledge of who he is and what type of makeup he’s got, but I just get the general “gut feeling” that he’s much more towards the 1st one.
If no AJ, you can bet Tex will be in NY…IMO
AJ won’t crack under pressure…
The Wagner/Halloween episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm is the best episode ever of that show. It’s technically perfect.
AJ will be fine, so long as he’s healthy and the expectations are realistic.
and I didn’t know Billy Wagner was an anti-semite. Learn something new everyday. lol.
Love this, and hope AJ is a Yankee soon. Can’t understand continuing to pursue Petitte. Last season he ran out of steam towards the end of the year, and is at the very end of his rope.
I’d much rather see them take a chance on Sheets. Don’t forget, this guy started the all-star game last year. 2 years, and if he stays healthy he’s a steal. I know that’s a big if, but I think it’s well worth the risk.
Enough about Tex and Planet ManRam. This team will win with pitching and defense next year. There’s still plenty of offense to make the engine go.
Doris,
Was his music anti-semitic as well?
Doris,
I’ve heard the same and I wonder if Jewish people continue to use his wedding song procession?
Kevin Page,
I think he’d be fine either way. As the ace of the Atlanta staff or the #1/#2/#3/#4 (They’ll all be good!) of the New York Yankees. People have said he rises to the occasion in big games. I think it’ll come down to where he feels comfortable. He’s still got the stuff to pitch in the junior circuit, going to the senior circuit is almost wimping out IMO.
He did good as a #2 behind Doc. Doc went out of his way to work with AJ this past year with mechanics and other stuff. He responded well. You know how Phil Hughes is an “old” 22? I think AJ’s a young “31″. These could be his peak years as he finally puts it all together.
“AJ won’t crack under pressure…”
There were reports I read here and/or elsewhere that Burnett has matured greatly over the last two years. Let’s hope so. That Toronto team has sure had its share of bozos and issues over the last couple of years. Let’s hope it had nothing to do with Burnett and was all Hillenbrand and “Crazy Go Nuts” Gibbons, the former skipper.
Its great that AJ is excited to be a Yankee. Imagine that? I think he could be great in a rotation of studs and on a winning team.
G. Love-
So glad you caught that!
Didn’t see the new thread. This was related to Burnett…
“2010 Free Agents (* means they have an option)”
This is one of the big reasons why they are going after a second free agent starter this off season.
Take a look at that list of free agent pitchers next year. People expects Lackey to sign an extension – it’s been reported in LA that he already is planning on signing an extension before spring training – or at least that’s his goal.
Every other attractive pitcher has an option that will be picked up.
That leaves Rich Harden – if you think AJ is injury prone forget about Harden.
Burnett and Lowe and even perhaps Sheets may be better than any starter who hits the market next winter.
A big reason why they don’t want to put Hughes in the rotation this year is that they don’t seem too eager to try breaking two young arms into the rotation at the same time, especially when one has a low innings cap like Joba does.
2009 they’ll try to slot in Joba. 2010 Hughes. But unless they have 4 other starters going in to 2010 they’ll have to take a gamble on a rookie or go trolling out in the free agent market again. It’s just too expensive to trade for pitching.
Not a lot of choice in free agents. And right now there is no other young pitcher you can count on to even theoretically slot into the 2010 rotation other than Hughes. Can’t count on Kennedy. And McCallister, Brackman, Betances aren’t going to be ready by 2010.
The yankees are lucky in that during an off season in which they are desperate for pitching – there is a lot of pitching talent on the market.
They are taking advantage of the supply this off season to brace for the lack of supply next off season.
What’s up with Derek Lowe? I’d much rather have a guy who’s going to throw 200 innings than a guy who only pitches a full season in his walk year…
Im MORE EXCITED about AJ signing than CC .. AJ has some of the best stuff in baseball. .
Come on AJ . please sign !
Im MORE EXCITED about AJ signing than CC .. AJ has some of the best stuff in baseball. .
Come on AJ . please sign !
Not having to face AJ should give the Yanks 2 or 3 extra wins a year. Now all we need is Millar and Daniel Cabrera.
Not to mention that it weakens a division rival’s rotation (albeit slightly).
It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
I doubt that AJ would choose the Braves over Yankees– or at least don’t think his wife would allow him to choose the Braves over Yankees
AJ will be ok in NY– microscope will be on CC and Arod– as long as the Yankees win– 14-17 games– all will be well in Yankeeland– which is possible when he is the #3 starter and healthy
Cameron deal will probably be done when/if they agree on other players…. it seems like the Yankees want more (whether its another player, money, or the removal of a certain lefty)
I’ve always liked Andy– and I think that he and the Yankees will get together and hammer something out.. before he goes to another team
That’s the wedding procession song. Don’t know the name of it, but it’s the walking down the aisle song.
geez i was just trying to create some funny idea of him thinking real hard in “deciding mode”, not create some discussion on whether wagner who is long dead likes jews or not.
baseball kids, baseball.
im getting so exited i kant wait for the season to start
Drew- Yes Derek Lowe would throw 200 innings but he stinks, is 36 years old and last time he pitched in the AL East his ERA was 5.50.
I agree with CB–
There are not a lot of pitchers available next year. Next year is the year for OFs. Vlad, Holliday, Ankiel, and Mags Ordonez has an option….. Guess who the Yankees are losing as FA’s next year……….. Damon and Matsui–Yankee OFs
Good job by Cash– knowing who is available this year and next.. and probably beyond
well pettite had a alot of garbage going on last off season and missed some spring training and his workout routine, no? i think a normal off season and normal training he could be the pettite we all know and love.
AJ,
Do you live in Miami? Heyman is writing in his winter meeting recap that Atlanta would be closer to your Miami home.
Either way it’s good for the Yankees.
with the yankees he will be a # 3 pitcher who only has to pitch 6 innings.i would take ny.
between arod & cc burnett will be fine.
i don’t like him for 5 years but it isn’t my money.
wrap it up aj.
Al from BK( Welcome to the Yankees CC!):
Lowes ok, but not for 4yrs as Boris has said….
“but he stinks”
no, he doesnt.
“AL East his ERA was 5.50.”
and that was how many years ago? i guess its not possible he had a bad year, or that he’s worked on locating or refining his pitches a little better.
Al- yeah, but he’s in better shape now, and he’s matured. He has a thick skin and a lot of experience. I just don’t trust AJ, especially for 5 years. I’d rather have Sheets for 2.
As long as he isn’t the main man, as stated above he will be great IMO, in Atlanta the would expect him, to be the #1 guy…
sorry they..
So Basically if no pettitte we are looking at
CC
AJ
Wang
Sheets/or Lowe
Joba
With Hughes, Aveces, IPK and Brackman eventually marinating in Scranton and making the occasional spot start…. Not too bad
Didn’t Taveras get non-tendered? Not really sure, but doesn’t that mean the Yanks can snag him for cheap w/o having to trade Melky or eat a big salary? He’s a quick CF who can hit 300+….
Do we really think IPK is not going to be packaged in a deal with Melky before pitchers and catchers report?
some pitchers were meant to pitch in the NL.
“Do you live in Miami? Heyman is writing in his winter meeting recap that Atlanta would be closer to your Miami home.”
Kind of sad isn’t it? How many fans on this board know AJ lives in Maryland and that’s a major concern of his given his wife dislike for flying.
How can a national writer make a mistake like that? It’s not only a factual mistake – it’s an analytic mistake. He comes to completely the opposite conclusion of the one he should come to.
But Heyman has that special relationship as Boras’ town crier so there you go…
i have a feeling if the yankees don’t up pettitte’s offer to at least 11 or 12 million andy takes less to play elsewhere.
Lowe doesn’t stink. Not at all. The main issue with Lowe is his age.
If AJ passes on New York, Lowe will be my new favorite free agent.
What’re the Mets going to do with their rotation? Right now it’s Johan and Santana as far as I know. AJ, Lowe, Sheets, Perez, Garland, and Sheets are still out there.
That is going to be a great rotation…CC, Wang, AJ, Andy, Joba…Hughes/Kennedy….
Forget his wife the Yanks wont let AJ pitch for the Braves.
“Didn’t Taveras get non-tendered? Not really sure, but doesn’t that mean the Yanks can snag him for cheap w/o having to trade Melky or eat a big salary? He’s a quick CF who can hit 300″
FOR THE LAST TIME…Taveras STINKS! most of his hits are freaking bunts!
Anyone else think Andy is about to walk on us? Considering Cash went out there and no news came out of the meeting doesnt seem good. He may be entertaining going back to Houston or even out to LA.
“Do we really think IPK is not going to be packaged in a deal with Melky before pitchers and catchers report?”
unless he’s going to Milwaukee with Melky, i dont see it happening, right?
If we don’t sign Pettitte and instead sign AJ and either Lowe or Sheets, IMO sooner or later the Yanks will need to trade Hughes for a minor league position player who has a high ceiling.
CB,
LOL. Here’s the blurb and the link before he changes it.
5. A.J. Burnett
His well-timed hot streak (8-2, 2.86 in the second half) is going to pay off big-time. As his agent, Darek Braunecker, said all along, Burnett has a five-year option if he wants it. The Yankees are out there, at $80 million for five. He can go there, or the Miami resident can choose to play closer to home in Atlanta. The Braves are believed to have offered four years for $60 million plus a vesting option, and could come up from there.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ef=writers
you will not see brackman near ny in 09.
not taveras again, he’s horrible…
mets have santanna,maine,pelfrey
“What’re the Mets going to do with their rotation? Right now it’s Johan and Santana as far as I know.”
The Mets also have Maine and former 22 year old overhyped prospect Pelfrey (sounds familiar doesn’t it), they’ll probably snatch up Lowe. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they tried to get Andy if he doesn’t sign with the Yankees.
mel:
I thought he was from Maryland…Miami???
Is it a good idea to give 80M to a guy who doesn’t want to be “The Man”? Even if he can flourish being the number 3 starter, and not the main guy, doesn’t that mean that he is likely to wilt when his start becomes pivotal during the season, or a clinch/elimination game in the playoffs? That is when the spotlight is brightest, regardless of who else is on the team.
I thought the wedding procession was Elgar… but I digress,
I like Burnett, he has filthy stuff, but the first half of 2008 he didn’t pitch well at all, though he was coming off of some kind of finger injury. I think he’s good for 15 wins a year, anything more than that is gravy. And he does seem to have improved as a pitcher the last few years, Halladay’s influence has been beneficial it seems.
Hopefully he signs and Andy too. Even if he signs with another team for a year or two, i won’t begrudge him that, but i do feel it would be silly not to accept a generous salary, he’s no longer a 16mil/year pitcher.
A year older and down two offensive bats..
Yet people here believe this team will be fine offensively? What inyears have they done to prove that ? Sure on paper they looked good –not last year– but they aren’t getting my vote of confidence!
Not even with jorge and matsui back.. What this team needs is an offensive leader and tho I love arod it ain’t him.
Ignoring tex is a huge Yankee blunder, if that is what they are doing.
If we are looking at Taveras, we would be much better off just going with Gardner.
Mark,
I don’t think AJ’s a shrinking violet. It’s been said that he pitches well in big games. Quite the opposite of our new ace. I’ll have to find the article, but one of the national writers said that CC’s problems come about when he tries too much. So you just never know.
I’d prefer to think he’s listening to Tristan und Isolde.
“Not even with jorge and matsui back.. What this team needs is an offensive leader and tho I love arod it ain’t him.
Ignoring tex is a huge Yankee blunder, if that is what they are doing.”
Tex definitely isn’t an offensive leader. He’s not even close to being an offensive leader. He’s as quiet as they come and just goes about his job.
A-Rod only puts up monster year after monster year. I like to call that leading by example.
lt sounds wasted on wfan.it is funny.
“If we are looking at Taveras, we would be much better off just going with Gardner.”
Gardner > Taveras. defensively and offensively.
“Anyone else think Andy is about to walk on us? Considering Cash went out there and no news came out of the meeting doesnt seem good. He may be entertaining going back to Houston or even out to LA.”
Forgive my hard heart on this one, but as someone who can’t wait for the Yankees to get back to their rightful place in this universe, I welcome Andy going to Houston, LA, or anywhere else. I think he’s seen his best days go by.
Tim Clougher
December 12th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
mel:
I thought he was from Maryland…Miami???
————————————————————
Miami, Maryland is a newly developed town with a fire station and post office….in Sam Drucker’s General Store.
mel,
If I made that kind of mistake in one of my posts here on this board I would cringe.
He has a national audience.
I just don’t get it. That’s clearly something he’s thought about and believed for a while.
He was making the point as if to demonstrate his complex understanding of the dynamics of Burnett’s decision.
And it was entirely wrong.
“It’s been said that he pitches well in big games. Quite the opposite of our new ace.”
I guess when he pitched on 3 days rest like 6 times in a row last year doesn’t count as big games even though his team needed him to pitch well in those games in order to even make it to the playoffs.
This CC doesn’t pitch well in big games nonsense needs to die already.
CC is a much better pitcher than AJ Burnett and it’s not even close.
“If we don’t sign Pettitte and instead sign AJ and either Lowe or Sheets, IMO sooner or later the Yanks will need to trade Hughes for a minor league position player who has a high ceiling.”
This is part of the reason why I don’t think the idea of signing Lowe in addition to AJ is serious at all. I also don’t think they are serious about signing Sheets to a two year deal in addition to AJ.
I think they are trying to put pressure on Andy to accept and are leaking alternatives.
All said and done, when it is over, Yanks will have Tex or Manny.
At the appropriate time, Cash will enter the game and close the deal. Their saying they will reduce the budget this year is posturing. Even with Tex/Manny (one of them), they will be still less than last year budget. Ther real budget relief comes next year when the contracts of Damon, Matsui and Andy(if he signs) expire totalling 36 mil.
Does AJ’s wife need to consult with Michelle Damon or Laura Posada?
Or, does AJ?
mel, was CC trying too much down the stretch for the Brewers? Those were all big games! Maybe he just likes September more than October. No problem. CC’s job is to get us into the postseason, then the playoff rotation can be Wang, then — wait, now I know what you meant when you said that Wang gives you the same thing CC does! Ok, our playoff rotation will be AJ, Joba, Pettitte, CC, and Wang.
Any chance that Cameron and Gardner platoon? Girardi (and some of us) loves Gardner. It’ll allow Gardner to play without the pressure of holding a job, something that Melky fell victim to.
We need to see what Gardner can give us. Because we’ll lose Damon, Cameron, and Nady. The cupboard will be bare. We can’t sign 3, or even 2, big-ticket OF.
“Even with Tex/Manny (one of them), they will be still less than last year budget.”
This is a false statement.
mel,
His only big games have been against the Yanks, and this year, they were just games between 2 non-playoff teams. They were big for him, because he wanted to impress, but not really pressure games.
My thinking, though, was that we have a lot of players who don’t seem to be leaders, but can put up numbers if there are others around-Cano, Matsui, Nady, even Arod. We need those type of players who want to be the man, want the ABs or the pitches when the game/season is on the line. We have one for sure-Mariano. But, for the first 8 innings, I am not sure who.
Yanks went hard at pitching and rightfully so, but you can’t totally ignore offense, cameron and swisher, sure they make sense for many teams, but this is the nny, we always have had our offense..
If the yanks don’t make the playoffs this year there will be a lot of excuses.. But we knew about cc when we passes on santana, if we pass on tex.. Tell me what our plan b is….
I don’t get it.. There is however an interesting prince fielder dialogue on the horizon
mel
December 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Any chance that Cameron and Gardner platoon? Girardi (and some of us) loves Gardner. It’ll allow Gardner to play without the pressure of holding a job, something that Melky fell victim to.
We need to see what Gardner can give us. Because we’ll lose Damon, Cameron, and Nady. The cupboard will be bare. We can’t sign 3, or even 2, big-ticket OF.
————————————————————
Yeah, I’d think so, especially with a particularly tough right handed pitcher.
“Any chance that Cameron and Gardner platoon?”
I think you are right mel. Gardner will definitely get a good amount of play time if the Yankees acquire Cameron. I don’t think it’ll be a straight up lefty-righty platoon but I do think Gardner will get a good amount of at-bats. He can also spell Nady and Damon when they need a day off.
“All said and done, when it is over, Yanks will have Tex or Manny.”
Holy Toledo I hope not!
If I knew any poker terms I would be using them right now to say that I will meet your bet and raise it that what you are saying does NOT happen.
Nick,
Quit being paranoid. I’m not picking on CC. His five post-season starts are on record. And of course he was clutch down the stretch and those were big games. Jesus Christ, Nick.
And if you were just kidding, I apologize. But in no way was I banging on CC, just repeating what a syndicated writer put out there.
People fail to remember that Lowe has spent the last few years padding his stats in the NL West! His last 2 years in the AL East were pretty awful he worked to a 5 ERA and he is now 4 years older and you expect him to improve on those numbers at the age of 36? This is silly I hope AJ comes here soon because the thought of Lowe in pinstripes at age 40 upsets me.
“We need those type of players who want to be the man, want the ABs or the pitches when the game/season is on the line. We have one for sure-Mariano. But, for the first 8 innings, I am not sure who.”
For the first 8 innings how about the guy who pitched 6 games in a row on 3 days rest when his team’s season was on the line?
Why spend 91 million dollars on AJ Burnett for 5 years when you can have almost the same type of pitched in sheets for a possible 2 years and 27 million with an option and incentives. AJ will cost over 18 million per season while sheets would cost a mere 13.5. On the same not, the yanks are taking the smart route and trying to get pettitte for 1 year and 10 million over about the same type of pitcher (if he moved to the AL) for 4 year and 60 million. This is a 15 million per season salary for lowe and 10 mil per for pettitte. Now, the difference in AJ and sheets salary is around 4.5 million and the difference between pettitte and lowe is 5 million per season – Thats 9.5 million added back to the leftover payroll if we sign Sheets and pettitte over Burnett and Lowe. Considering sheets has done far better than burnett over the last season and pettitte and lowe should be comparable in the AL east, that is alot of change.
Now, lets see what the yanks can do with that extra 9.5 million. After this cameron trade which helps lineup speed and outfield defense but further hurts team obp and pitches taken, we need someone with a great eye. Additionally the cameron deal still leaves us without a complimentary third or fourth hitter to wherever arod hits. So ideally we need a guy with power and high obp. Since arod is a righty, it is the obvious choice to pick a lefty bat who can bat fourth with solid power and a great eye. Further, the best place for them to take on the field would be to replace swisher – swisher can serve as the backup OF, Backup first baseman, backup DH and pinch hitter. He can also platoon with nady in right field if nady continues to struggle in NY. Swisher is a switch hitter (try saying that three times fast) and nady is a righty so technically they would make a good platoon. And although they are similar types of players, we cant bank on a comeback year from swisher and bank on nady over-performing from last year along with all the other ifs surrounding the team like posada, matsui and cano.
Now, who do we pick up to bat fourth thats a lefty and can play first base decently with tremendous power and high obp. Its only the least talked about player in the free agent market adam dunn. Arizona declined to give arbitration to dunn which would have given him around 14 million in salary in 2009. Since i have not heard a single rumor about a possible offer and have no idea where dunn is valued i am going to start with a value less than 14 million. It is possible Dunn is looking for a short-term deal due to the complete lack of interest in him this off season and i would go with 3 years with a possible option. The yanks could offer 12 mil over 3 years to dunn and he may very well accept it. Dunn just turned 29 years old so a 3 year deal would take him to the age of 32 – Additionally, a three year deal likely wouldnt block the way for montero if he can no longer catch and is forced to move to first base or if someone like jeter had to move to first base in a couple of years. Dunn also has the ability to play left field making him somewhat versatile in the field in case someone needs to move over to first base.
Dunn is as conistent as they come and relying on him to have an obp in the high 380s with 40 homers and over 500 at bats is money in the bank. In Dunn’s last five seasons since 2004, he has only failed to have an obp over 380 once – always falling between 386 and 388. He has never had less than 40 homeruns in the last five seasons hitting 46, 40, 40, 40, 40. Now that is what i call consistency. Yes, he will strikeout and was fifth in the NL in strikeouts last year but he can also walk and he walks alot – he walked 122 times last year and that ranks first in the NL. He also grounded into only 7 double plays last year and has had an ops plus of 129 and 136 in the last two years. He ranked 10th last year in offense winning percentage. He is a career 247 hitter but the obp for his career is at 381 which ranks 21st among active players – jason giambi is seventh and bobby abreu is tenth thus, the stress on obp. Avg is irrelevant when the obp is that high and the homers are that high – he is also a shoe-in for over 100 rbis and on the yanks, probably good for 120.
The lineup would shape out to be: Damon – L, Jeter – R, Arod – R, Dunn- L, Posada- S, Matsui – L, Swisher/Nady – S/R, Cano – L, Cameron – R. A very solid mix of lefty, righty and switch. And where do we get the money to pay Dunn’s 12 mil next year HOW about signing sheets and pettitte for 13.5 and 10 mil? That gives us about 12 mil left for offense and there you have it. Arod and Dunn both give us a legitimate three and four hitter and both can easily hit over 40 homers and have an obp over 380. Swisher gives us an extremely capable replacement should matsui, damon or dunn go down. Meanwhile swisher is very useful as a pinch hitter and platoon. This also gives us speed on the top and the bottom while still maintaining a better than league avg obp which cameron drops dramatically. And posada, matsui, nady/swisher and cameron could easily give us over 20 homers from the fifth, sixth, seventh and ninth spot making it a pretty intimidating lineup. Im just saying this is a perfect fit cashman has to get it done.
Doris from Rego Park
December 12th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Wagner was an anti-semite
——————
That was one of the best Curb Your Enthusiasm episodes ever.
“People fail to remember that Lowe has spent the last few years padding his stats in the NL West! His last 2 years in the AL East were pretty awful he worked to a 5 ERA and he is now 4 years older and you expect him to improve on those numbers at the age of 36? This is silly I hope AJ comes here soon because the thought of Lowe in pinstripes at age 40 upsets me.”
I remember! I remember!
Al, it may not be overwhelming in numbers, but there is definitely a cohort here who do NOT want Lowe. I think we all remember.
For those wanting to trade for Prince Fielder you do know Milwaukee would demand one if not both of Hughes/Ajax. He is a gifted HR hitter but tremendously out of shape and he would be a DH in the AL. Lets put down the controller.
“I don’t think AJ’s a shrinking violet. It’s been said that he pitches well in big games. ”
Burnett is a pure upside play. Huge risk. But the upside is unbelievable.
In his final 15 starts of 2008 Burnett went 9-2 with 113 strikouts, and a 2.72 ERA.
Why is that a particularly big deal? Of those final 15 starts 9 of them came against the Sox, Rays, and Yankees.
That is just unbelievable. The number of pitchers in baseball capable of that you could probably count on one hand.
For all of those 3 teams – especially the Rays and Sox – those were huge games. And Burnett just shut them down cold.
Whether he can do that with any consistency, now that’s the question.
And, Nick, you’ve got it backwards. All these years, we’ve been able to get into the playoffs, but haven’t had that front-line ace to win in the playoffs. That’s why people said we have to go get an ace. Remember? Wang is not an ace!
Mel,
There is a lot of money coming off the books next year… there will be plenty of money to spend on one or more OFs.
Damon, Matsui, Pettitte (if he signs)– Hughes takes spot in 2010, Nady, Cameron, and Molina– though we might not have a catcher ready to replace him
“For the first 8 innings how about the guy who pitched 6 games in a row on 3 days rest when his team’s season was on the line?”
That is what I mean. CC is one of those guys. But we need more. I guess Damon is that way as well, so is Jeter. But we don’t have any big run producers who seem to really want that big AB. Arod seemed to turn the corner in ’07, hopefully it’s back this year.
“All said and done, when it is over, Yanks will have Tex or Manny.”
i continue to doubt that this will happen, but i cant seem to get past why Cashman would make a personal visit to see Teixeira in DC/Maryland last week and not have some sort of level of interest or idea of what kind of offer he has permission to give.
and if Manny is still floating around in the market in mid January, it absolutely wouldnt surprise me to see Cashman pull in value like he potentially adds to the lineup for relatively cheap.
“This is a false statement.”
Prove it.
I am not counting Cameron yet.
Assumning 20 mil for Tex/Manny. I know Manyy won’t come for 20 mil, but they can start with 20 and give more in later years. So:
CC: 23mil
AJ: 17 mil
Pettitte: 10 mil
Tex/Manny: 20 mil
The total is 70 mil, much less than what is coming off the 2008 payroll. If they add Cameron, it will be near 2008 budget.
raymagnetic
December 12th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
“We need those type of players who want to be the man, want the ABs or the pitches when the game/season is on the line. We have one for sure-Mariano. But, for the first 8 innings, I am not sure who.”
For the first 8 innings how about the guy who pitched 6 games in a row on 3 days rest when his team’s season was on the line?
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I doubt that any pitcher would be real comfortable trying to replace three legends and fan favorites like Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. That would be a Mantle replacing DiMaggio or Tino Martinez replacing Mattingly type pressure. No way you can come out ahead.
I’m tired of the “Lowe sucks” argument. It has been shown several times that Derek Lowe does NOT, in fact, suck.
“though we might not have a catcher ready to replace him”
Cervelli will be a good backup by then. He’s very good behind the plate and will probably end up as a career backup anyways.
“Does AJ’s wife need to consult with Michelle Damon or Laura Posada?
Or, does AJ?”
Nick
LOL. If Jana Mussina was able to close the deal with CC, why not? Not that the 161 hurt.
Who needs Cash or agents? The Yankees and free agents wives/GF/mothers can hammer out the deals and just tell the guys where to show up and when.
“Prove it.”
I did this last thread so here is my copied response:
2008 payroll was 209 million, I am not going to post the breakdown for each player because this post is going to be long as it is.
Here is the 2009 payroll with Sabathia, Swisher and Marte. I have Hughes and Aceves filling the last two spots in the rotation and Gardner in CF. I had to guess on arbitration for Nady, Wang and Bruney. I also gave raises to everyone that is at the minimum salary. These raises are rough guesses I made based on amount of service time. Here it is:
Alex Rodriguez $32,000,000
Derek Jeter $21,600,000
Robinson Cano $6,000,000
Nick Swisher $5,300,000
Johnny Damon $13,000,000
Xavier Nady $8,000,000
Brett Gardner $400,000
Hideki Matsui $13,000,000
Jorge Posada $13,100,000
CC Sabathia $23,000,000
Chien-Ming Wang $6,000,000
Joba Chamberlain $425,000
Alfredo Aceves $400,000
Phil Hughes $415,000
Mariano Rivera $15,000,000
Damaso Marte $3,750,000
Brian Bruney $2,000,000
Jose Veras $475,000
Mark Melancon $390,000
Phil Coke $400,000
Dan Giese $420,000
Juan Miranda $400,000
Cody Ransom $475,000
Melky Cabrera $490,000
Jose Molina $1,000,000
Total: $167,440,000
From here you can calculate approximately what the Yankees payroll will be if they sign certain players.
If the Yankees sign Burnett, Pettitte and trade for Cameron the payroll will be ~ $203 million. Then they would have to improve the bench in some way so budget another few million for that.
My conclusion? Manny and Tex are unobtainable unless the Yankees are willing to go above $220 million.
Say no to Lowe….4yrs is way to long 1460 days to long..
“i continue to doubt that this will happen, but i cant seem to get past why Cashman would make a personal visit to see Teixeira in DC/Maryland last week and not have some sort of level of interest or idea of what kind of offer he has permission to give.”
The meeting was at Boras’s request. GM’s do this kind of thing all the time when high profile players and agents ask.
At the winter meetings CC and his agent asked for that meeting with the Red Sox and Theo obliged.
The yankees could have interest but I’m not sure if you can infer that from that meeting.
It’s also in the yankees best interst to maintain some level of interaction with Tex to drive up his price.
Cash’s meeting with Tex had all of Boston in a tizzy.
mel, of course I was teasing you, but I haven’t got anything backwards and I’m not fogetting anything either. You did just write that AJ is no “shrinking violet” and that he pitches well in big games, “Quite the opposite of our new ace.” Given your previous odd statements about how CC doesn’t go anything for you that Wang doesn’t do, that’s very tease-worthy.
CB
December 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Cash’s meeting with Tex had all of Boston in a tizzy.
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That alone make all right with the world. Second best thing to signing him.
Patrick – I don’t know that I’ve seen anyone say “Lowe sucks” – but I have seen a lot of discourse about his meltdowns when he played in Boston. He melted down under pressure and was able to kick it up a notch during the playoffs in his contract year. He still had an ERA of over 5 when he left Boston.
I have said continually that I don’t want someone who has shown that the pressure of a major spotlight causes him great angst – and since the only time he managed to come across in any near-pressure position was in his contract year, I will not count that since it was the exception to the Lowe rule. I don’t count playing in the NL as pressure, especially the kind you find in the Bronx.
While Lowe may not necessarily suck, my great belief is that he definitely would were he to come back and play in a real pressure cooker.
(also, last year was the first time AJ ever won more than 12 games in a season — what big games are they talking about?)
I don’t think you can get much higher pressure than the playoffs. Derek Lowe has a 3.33 ERA in the playoffs. I don’t think pressure bothers him that much.
“My conclusion? Manny and Tex are unobtainable unless the Yankees are willing to go above $220 million.”
You have a point.
However, I beleive the new contracts will be structured in such a way the first year they will not be paid the contract average value. Also, personally I feel instead of Cameron, they should shoot for Tex or Manny.
“I don’t think you can get much higher pressure than the playoffs. Derek Lowe has a 3.33 ERA in the playoffs. I don’t think pressure bothers him that much.”
Patrick – again. He did it in his contract year, after sporting a plus 5 ERA for the season. It was also well known that Lowe was greatly helped out by the offense when he sported decent W-Ls in Boston.
If you watched Lowe on any regular basis when he was in the AL you would say that pressure bothered him inordinately.
Lowe doesn’t suck, but we don’t want him for 4 years either.
Nick in SF
December 12th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
(also, last year was the first time AJ ever won more than 12 games in a season—what big games are they talking about?)
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Lot of people that are saying this, and pining for Sheets forget that 2008 was the first time that he had ever won more than 12.
Trisha, Lowe has been in the playoffs more than just in 2004. He’s pitched in 11 postseason series in 1998, 1999, 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2008. Over those 11 series he has a 3.33 ERA. Clearly pressure does not bother him.
Not sure why people want AJ for 5 years at 90 million. Short term memory I suppose.
In 2007 he said he was in pain. Blue Jays did a lot of tests on AJ and found nothing wrong with him. It was all in his head. He is a headcase, and him not wanting pressure/being the man is another example of that. Signing him for more than 3 years is a mistake. AJ was hurt in 2006 and 2007 and the only years he has been fully healthy were in his contract years. He also did NOT have a great year in 2008, as some have been saying on this board or in general. His ERA was over 4, and if you don’t believe in ERA, his WHIP was 1.35. He also walked 90 batters.
For someone who spoke about Lowe before padding his stats in the NL, one of the real reasons he did better in the NL is because he dramatically reduced his walks and improved his control overall. I’m not a big fan of giving Lowe 4 or 5 years at all, either. Lowe is durable, but will he continue to be effective in the third, fourth or fifth year of his deal?…I doubt it…He will only be good for the next 2 seasons, and I wouldn’t offer him more than 3 year deal.
Which is why the Yanks should just sign Sheets to a 2 year deal with an option for a third and try to being back andy for 10-12 mill on a 1 year deal. Sheets has injury risk like AJ, but is better than AJ when healthy, and is coming at more than half the price, and half the years. He also can be as good, or better than CC when healthy. Andy would be a good 4th starter who can pitch 200 innings.
Also on the offense: Our offense at this point will depend on a cano bounce back, and healthy seasons from matsui and posada (and obviously everyone else, but just referring to last year.) It can be a deep line-up. Maybe no real big threat except arod, but when you look at it, solid hitter after solid hitter. Cano (if he bounces back) or Matsui (if he is healthy) can hit in the third spot.
Burnett has a much greater chance of staying healthy than Sheets does. AJ has already had successful Tommy John surgery, and has already successfully completed his rehab.
Not only that, he has also shown that he can successfully dominate the AL East since coming back from his injuries.
I can say with confidence that no one here would want to see the Yankees facing AJ Burnett in game 7 of the ALCS.
How could you pass up a player who is capable of shutting down a lineup like he can???
Finally, NYY would have two pitchers to go head to head against Halliday and fight him to a 0-0 draw. Let the bullpens fight it out after that.
Patrick – I am interested only in what he did in the AL. We’re talking pressure, not candyland. And there is no pressure equal to playing for the Yankees.
The guy is a headcase. I watched him enough when he played for Boston. Or perhaps you think Boston let go of him for no good reason?
Best I can say is that I hope the Yankee organization also remember it the way I do.
I hope AJ signs. Imagine the top three in our rotation then – CC, Wang and AJ. Talk about a 1-2-3 punch.
Oh, have I forgotten that we have Joba. Pettitte at #5 is just a bonus, if we can sign him back. Remember, last year Pettitte was a #2 for most of the year.
I’d say that would probably be the strongest rotation in baseball.
And Patrick, Lowe wasn’t always a starter. He went into a lot of those playoff games as relief stuck somewhere in the middle. Not quite the same thing.
A.J. Burnett has a house in south broward county, i think it is their winter home. He lives next door to charles johnson and across the street from pavel bure. He has owned the house since he was a marlin. I know this cuz my parents live in the adjacent community and have seen them shopping. So heyman is right in some aspects, but the burnett’s primary residence is in maryland.
One thing to keep in mind in comparing Sheets, AJ and Lowe is competition. Burnett has proven he can succeed in baseball’s toughest division. His career 25-8, 3.18 vs AL East teams is outstanding. Yes, he injury history is a concern, but 112 starts in the last four years is not all that bad. Sheet has made 94 starts in that time.
Lowe has the proven durability, but his AL East numbers are nothing close to those of Burnett. If Pettite declines the Yanks offer than I’d be okay with Lowe… but four years and $ 15 M or more a year should buy you potential dominance not just innings.
Good points except that being #2 on the New York Yankees is no less pressure than the ace on the Atlanta Braves. Yankee fans will remember that he got paid like an ace and expect his performance to reflect that…regardless of what day he starts.