The non-tender market takes shape
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2008 
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You can’t tell by the Yankees. But the impact the economy is having on baseball became even more apparent today when RHP Daniel Cabrera (Orioles), INF Ty Wigginton (Astros) and OF Willy Taveras (Rockies) were not offered contracts by their teams and became free agents.
The versatile Wigginton would help the Yankees off the bench. But he could well land a starting job elsewhere.
Not having to face A.J. Burnett and Cabrera is good news for Yankee hitters. Those two were 6-1, 3.04 in nine starts against the Yankees in 2008.
Non-tendering a player of Ty Wigginton’s quality – I can’t think of any recent case of any similar player being non-tendered.
Houston is one of the worst organizations in the league – but even for them this really tells you about the fear of the economy gripping the sport.
To non-tender Wigginton means not only do you not want to risk losing in arbitration – it means that in your reading of the market, should Wigginton win his case he would essentially become untradable due to his salary.
Houston just jettisoned a very valuable asset out of fear.
He’d be an ideal guy to have on a good club. But he’s going to get a starters job somewhere either at 3b or 2b.
The only way to have gotten Wigginton for the bench was to trade for him before he could pick his situation.
Other than Wiggington, I don’t see anything that would interest us yet.
They have to at least make a play for him. Jeter’s always getting knocked up. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, the Yankees have improved a little.
What I love about this winter is that if we get Andy to fill the last rotation spot, we can go into ST with our starting rotation etched in stone. Test out Melancon and plug him in the bullpen.
“Jeter’s always getting knocked up.”
Did Minka pull the goalie?
Mel
Wigginton would make it a whole lot better, but still no back-up 1B. Unless we plan on plugging Posada there.
If any team was smart, they’d pick up Cabrera. if not to fill a starting position, but for a long relief position. The guy has potential to have great stuff just needs to be consistent. Definitely should be looked into.
This team should add Cameron or a bat/OFer. Not enough offense to back up our pitching. Can anybody make a case for somebody outside of Cameron as a realistic candidate?
No Andy decision yet?
Daniel Cabrera should be picked up.This guy had raw stuff before last year.
The Sox didn’t tender Cash so they wouldn’t have to go through arbitration. They can re-sign him as a free agent but right now they don’t have a catcher.
Baseball sources say reports of the Sox signing Kenshin Kawakami are inaccurate.
Red Sox reaction to today.
http://dondep.home.comcast.net.....action.gif
Rob: Mr. Mom?
The only trouble with Cabrera is something Jim Palmer said while we were playing the O’s in Baltimore. He said that up until last year he really loved Daniel’s arm and his potential, but that in ’08 something changed. He lost velocity on his fastball and Palmer felt like he lost something in his mentality too. He is a real reclamation project, I don’t think you can expect much of anything from him without some fixin’
Daniel Cabrera should be signed and put in the bullpen. Electric stuff.
lol Nick you always pick up the quotes.
GreenBeret7
December 12th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
CB
December 12th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
“We have a college down here in Savannah called SCAD (Savannah College Of Art And Design)”
Ever see Ryan Pope pitch in college? His control numbers at SCAD were crazy.
Little disappointed that a guy with that kind of command hasn’t done better in the lower minors.
—————————————————————————————-
Yeah…caught a couple of his college games, and later his games with Charleston…..has that certain look…like he knows he’s good and doesn’t have to impress everybody. He just pitches. A definate keeper.
GreenBeret7
December 12th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
sorry…saw Ryan Pope in college. it was Justin Pope that NYY had a couple of years ago.
alex Cora or Aaron Mills has value to a team like the Yanks…especially Cora.
what do you guys think of Harrison juinor .Read a blog 6pound 8 oz baby joba and it brings up great points about him he plays the entire infield minus 1st base and plays all the of positions. Talk about a great bench player. What are your thoughts and give up on Ankiel they want WAY TO MUCH for 1 year.Not to mention Boras is his agent
“He lost velocity on his fastball and Palmer felt like he lost something in his mentality too.”
Cabrera’s stuff was very down by the end of the season.
He was losing velocity. No idea why. He just didn’t have the same fastball and the pitch that was making him more successful was his power 2 seamer.
2007 his average fastball velocity was 94.3mps. 2008 it was 92.6. Some of that was intentional as he was throwing the two seamer more. But something happened to his stuff as well.
He’s of almost no value to a team like the yankees that’s trying to win now and has depth in the minor leagues.
The orioles invested enormous time and energy in cabrera – if they’ve given up on him they must be worried about his arm.
Yet Houston gave LaTroy Hawkins 3.5mil for 09.
Yanks already have enough guy with blow-away stuff in house ready for the pen: Bruney, Marte, Melancon, Robertson, Coke just to name a few.
Why not Taveras? He’s a winner, been on Houston AND Colorado in the post-season. He can flat-out run and cover a ton of ground in CF. IMO he would be a better option that $10 mil 36 year old Cameron..
That would give us the option of trading Damon and playin Matsui in LF occasionally along with Gardner.. Leaving the DH spot open for more rotation or the possibility of signing someone else..
wow wigginton will b a great adiittion to our team and ill b happy if the yanks could get danniel cabrera we kany quick is this guy he has a great arm
CB– I think the non-tender move is just further proof of what I was saying about Jim Palmer’s comments. The guy knows his baseball and if he says Cabrera isn’t the same, and isn’t getting any better, I believe him. He is one of the few away broadcasts I look forward to on MLB.tv
Any info or links regarding Pettittes decision or Sheets medical records would be greatly appreciated. Heard a rumor that is probaly B.S. that Sheets didnt pass his phisical and thats why no one besides Rangers talking to him. Not trying to start a rumor just trying to clarify situation. Thank You
Things are quiet in Yankee land. A little too quiet…
“Sheets medical records would be greatly appreciated”
I think that if the rumor about our offering him a contract is true means we think he will recover and is worth it.
Cabrera is another one of those pitchers like Burnett who looked like an Ace against the Yankees but sucked against every other team. Signing these guys takes away their one good trick: beating the Yankees.
How does signing Burnett make more sense than signing Lowe? If the Yankees passed on Burnett he would have gone to the Braves and been out of the AL East. Lowe is a more reliable pitcher, and will now probably face the Yankees 6 times per year. I guess Cashman needed someone to fill Pavano’s roster spot.
Willy Taveras is an absolutely atrocious hitter.
20 bucks says Dave Duncan would make Cabrera respectable.
I realize that isnt very realistic, as none of you can actually give me $20 when I’m right, but I do hope he goes there. StL needs pitching, we’d never have to face him again, and I’d really be interested to see if Duncan can help him.
This isn’t so much the economy as much as these guys are not good baseball players. Wigginton’s really the only strange one but Houston doesn’t have a spot for him and Ed Wade is half retarded, so really it’s not actually that surprising.
Don’t blame the economy for this Pete. You should know better.
Taveras is a whole lot cheaper than Cameron while providing at least comparable defense, and he would add youth and speed to a slow creaky lineup. He is certainly a more appealing option than Cabrera.
I, too, enjoy Jim Palmer’s Orioles broadcasts. He also sometimes goes on WCBS and does the pregame shows with John and Suzyn when the Yanks play the O’s. Always a lot of complimentary things to say about Yankees young pitching, I specifically remember him gushing over Hughes in 07.
“Daniel Cabrera should be signed and put in the bullpen. Electric stuff.”
Yeah, the Yankees really need some relievers that throw hard and don’t know where it’s going.
Did people not watch Yankee games in the last five years? The pen’s biggest problem was that it walked too many guys. And you want Cabrera?
David,
Burnett has a 20-5 record against the rest of the AL East.
So is Andy Pettitte going to be the reason the Yankees don’t sign Ben Sheets, god I hope not.
Rob,
Palmer is fantastic. It’s amazing that the national audience is subjected to Tim McCarver when guys like Palmer are available.
On pitching he’s just fantastic. It’s a pleasure to catch games when he’s doing them.
Even when they play the yankees – he has more interesting and insightful things to say about the yankee players than the yankee announcers do.
We don’t even need Cameron IMO, but it seems to be a done deal. Just like the AJ deal. Too bad you guys don’t have Superman powers. Not only could you spin the world backwards and undo the Burnett deal, but could you go back and undo the Igawa and Pavano deals? Maybe go all the way back to October, 2004? Thanks a bunch.
BBB– He was even gushing this year about Hughes. Another reason to think Hughes can be a productive major leaguer.
CB
December 12th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Rob,
Palmer is fantastic. It’s amazing that the national audience is subjected to Tim McCarver when guys like Palmer are available.
On pitching he’s just fantastic. It’s a pleasure to catch games when he’s doing them.
Even when they play the yankees – he has more interesting and insightful things to say about the yankee players than the yankee announcers do.
————————————————————
CB, Earl Weaver just called. He’s looking for you to give you his views of Jim Palmer.
“Taveras is a whole lot cheaper than Cameron while providing at least comparable defense, and he would add youth and speed to a slow creaky lineup. He is certainly a more appealing option than Cabrera.”
But we already have Brett Gardner. What possible use would Taveras be? If the Yankees want a CFer who can barely get on base at a .300 clip while providing very good defense, they can just play Brett.
Thankfully, they realize that’s not good enough, and are looking to acquire a player who provides above average CF defense, gets on base more than Taveras, and is actually capable of producing some doubles and homers.
Jim Palmer, one of the few handsome men in baseball. Oops! Was I not supposed to make a comment about an esteemed colleague?
Brandon, according to Newsday the Yanks are not going after Sheets anymore…
“They have ruled out going after oft-injured Ben Sheets, someone familiar with their plans said, because of too many “red flags.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....4235.story
WTF ?! *Whozat* ?
“So is Andy Pettitte going to be the reason the Yankees don’t sign Ben Sheets, god I hope not.”
Brandon, do you REALLY want two guys with the health track records of Burnett and Sheets in the same rotation?
The only reason I can think of for the Yanks giving 5 years to Burnett is that Sheets’ medicals were awful (also…Pete reported earlier that they are “full of red flags”) and they just couldn’t see him pitching 160-200 innings a year over the course of his deal.
Thus, Pettitte is a much, much better choice.
“So is Andy Pettitte going to be the reason the Yankees don’t sign Ben Sheets, god I hope not.”
Please. Enough with the Ben Sheets. No one has any idea of what his medicals or his scans look like.
No idea at all.
If Sheets were healthy teams would be throwing themselves at him given the demand for pitching that we’ve already seen.
Think of it this way. Atlanta, like the yankees, planned their entire off season around rebuilding their staff.
Atlanta assessed AJ Burnett in exactly the same way the yankees did – as a front end starter – and the Braves went to the wall for AJ. They were going to make him the highest paid guy on the team. The anchor for their staff.
Atlanta loses him – do they move on to Sheets? No. They have zero interest in sheets.
Doesn’t that say something for how sheets is being valued around the league?
Now perhaps this is a massive market inefficiency. Or perhaps the entire league is scared off by his medicals – which they have seen.
The only team remotely interested is the rangers who are always desperate for pitching and have some bizarre fascination with bringing guys from texas “home.”
I fail to see the urgency in trading for Cameron. It’s not like he’s not going to be there months from now. His salary makes him undesirable to anyone else.
Obviously the Yankees are down on Melky (what did he get in Sept when he was recalled- 3 AB’s?) – but getting Cam seems like a panic move.
If Gardner can’t cut it – you could always use Damon/Swisher there as a stop gap measure – then make a trade for Cameron during the year.
I don’t believe that just yet Joe I.
“WTF ?! Whozat ?”
‘sup?
Workin’ late. Waiting for my code to compile and my tests to run. And there’s not enough traffic at RAB to keep me entertained right now
Jim Palmer loves Hughes. Absolutely gushes about him. Palmer thinks Hughes is a future front end arm.
Mel– He is a handsome man too. lol We’re really showing Jim the ‘love’ tonight.
Where the hell have you been ? you missed the CC heisting.
If they aren’t going for Sheets they better bring back Andy.
GB7,
Weaver and Palmer. Sort of different personalities there…
“If Gardner can’t cut it – you could always use Damon/Swisher there as a stop gap measure – then make a trade for Cameron during the year.”
And who would be playing LF in this scenario? Swisher? Ok…who’s at first?
The Brewers went into cost-cutting mode the minute they lost CC. They are motivated to move Cameron now to save as much of that money as they can — without getting completely boned in the trade. If the Yanks wait until the season and hand the job to Gardner (which he has certainly not earned), and he tanks…now they’re playing Swisher/Damon/Nady in the OF and who…Miranda? At 1B? Then the Brewers have them by the short hairs, and he’d cost more in talent than he will right now.
So, it’s certainly not a panic move. It’s a reaction to the fact that Gardner probably won’t get on base enough to make he speed an asset on a daily basis.
Reading between the lines here, the yanks are going to bring back Pettite. Cash’s meeting must have went well.
Kat O’Brien has very good sources inside the yanks. Here’s what she wrote:
“Although the additions of Burnett and CC Sabathia give the Yankees one of baseball’s best rotations, they aren’t done yet. They have ruled out going after oft-injured Ben Sheets, someone familiar with their plans said, because of too many “red flags.” Instead, they will await a decision from Andy Pettitte.
The Yankees, who had hoped to sign Pettitte or Sheets to round out their starting rotation, have decided that Pettitte would be a better fit. Sheets did make 31 starts in 2008, going 13-9 with a 3.09 ERA for the Brewers, but injuries kept him from topping 160 innings between 2005 and 2007.”
It’s funny how the entire yankee blogosphere decided all at once that Ben Sheets was the answer – with no clue about what his physical condition was.
Red flags all over your medical records – not real good.
A two year contract in which the pitcher needs TJ surger in year one is a complete waste of the entire contract.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....4235.story
Whozat honestly do you want Andy back next season ?
Whozat could not agree with you more. But you forget in your sentence. But we already have Brett Gardner and Melky Cabrera. Next sentence you forgot If the yankees want a CFerwhon can barely get on base at a 300 clip while providing very good defense they can just play Brett or Melky.Hopefully Brett will be better but sad but true we could get more right now for Brett than we can for Melky. Why have BOTH.?
If Phil could turn into half the pitcher Palmer was I would consider it a success.
sign cabrera as a number 5. That would officially be the filthiest pitching staff in major league history
See this is why you sign Pettite– One year commitment/ 200 ip /100+ ERA+ /fights through injury. The guy will fight on the mound and give you a chance to win most of the time. Best of all he allows Phil Hughes to pitch 180 AAA innings developing his cutter and change and have a spot to fight for in ’10. Andy is the best option and an above average 4. Take the 10 million Andy and let the new faces take you along for the ride.
Al,
Palmer truly loves Hughes. I’ve seen him call a couple of Hughes’ starts against the O’s and he just sees a young pitcher who’s learning the pro game but one that has tremendous upside.
He talks about Hughes like he’s a no doubt. He doesn’t question Hughes’s talent, velocity, etc. at all.
He sees the kid pitch and sees a star.
“Where the hell have you been ? you missed the CC heisting.”
a) working, and
b) I didn’t miss it…I was just elsewhere.
Besides…signing CC was undeniably a necessary thing, and it pretty much turned out exactly like reasonable people thought it would. That’s not really interesting to debate. Discussing what to do with the $45MM they seem willing to spend AFTER CC is more interesting.
We really, really need to get Wiggington.
Seriously – we can’t pass up this opportunity. Sure, some team like the Pirates could have him start, but off of the bench, he could be extremely versatile. Swisher and he could play first, with him taking over for anyone in the infield at any time. You cannot get better than him for utility and he provides some pop with his bat.
Does not get better than this, and I’d be willing to give him a few years and a few million each.
“But you forget in your sentence. But we already have Brett Gardner and Melky Cabrera. Next sentence you forgot If the yankees want a CFerwhon can barely get on base at a 300 clip while providing very good defense they can just play Brett or Melky.”
I forgot what in my sentence? Slow down, man…use complete sentences.
CB Thank you for that link you are my HERO. Thats why I figured Yankees just out of the blue were silent when itcame to Sheets. Now I am ten times happier about aquiring Burnett. Wow it looks like the Yankees actually know what there doing this off season. P.S. I hope Pettitte signs because I do not want Lowe . SAY NO TO LOWE. Thank you CB
I’d love wiggy too but given a choice, I think he’ll take a chance to play everyday over being a Yankee backup no matter what the pay difference. And I don’t think the Yanks are going to seriously overpay for a bench player -
“Whozat honestly do you want Andy back next season ?”
Yeah. Not for 16mm. For 10-12mm, sure. Why wouldn’t I? 200IP of league-average or better production. At this point, reliable innings are more important than upside for this rotation. They HAVE an arm with upside waiting for the inevitable replacement starts. They need a more reliable arm like Andy’s to decrease the risk that Hughes AND Kennedy AND Aceves all need to be in the rotation at the same time.
I know all about Andy’s poor ERA in the second half last season. However, we all know that he was pitching through elbow woes because Kei Igawa would have been on the mound if he went on the DL. Healthy Andy is still a fine pitcher. With a full starting five backed by three currently-near-ready options in AAA (and the potential options of Horne, Coke, Giese), if Andy needs to go on the DL or skip two starts…maybe they could actually let him DO that and avoid the problems he faced this season.
Also, looking behind the numbers, we can see that Andy got unlucky and jobbed by his D. Replacing Giambi with Swish will help, and having Cameron or Gardner next to Johnny will help too.
“We really, really need to get Wiggington.”
For what? The 10 games each that ARod and Cano don’t play in the field?
It’s insurance for Cano or Arod and he can play 1st, too. He could even play short sometimes if absolutely needed. It’s not like ARod and Cano are immune to injuries. Plus, Cano’s play was horrible last season. What’s to say he will definitely improve?
I think its a great way to strengthen the bench. I know he will want to start most likely, but with the market, he may have no choice but to be a backup.
Wiggy definitely can’t play short. He can play 1B in a pinch, yeah, but…he’s not a very good defender at all.
Besides…why would he come here, knowing that he’d be behind the highest paid player in the game, and the yankees’ highest paid young player? They’re not giving up on Cano; Wigginton MIGHT get a couple starts if they decide to bench him for a few days again if he’s having another awful season.
Why would he choose to come here, given that? Why wouldn’t he go somewhere on a one-year deal to punch up his value for next offseason?
Bring me home!
I could be Luis Sojo!
Wiggy will probably sign with the Giants, they are desparate for a 3B.
whozat
December 13th, 2008 at 12:09 am
“If Gardner can’t cut it – you could always use Damon/Swisher there as a stop gap measure – then make a trade for Cameron during the year.”
And who would be playing LF in this scenario? Swisher? Ok…who’s at first?
Who would be playing first if Swisher starts the season 0 for April? The Yankees will have someone backing up Swisher come the start of the season. The bench is still a work in progress.
Cameron averages 150 strikeouts a year. He has finished in the top 10 every year. He’s not worth 10 million. You actually think the Brewers would hold the Yanks ransom over Cameron? Seriously?
I think there’s a better chance the Brewers would give him his 30 day pay and let him walk come Spring.
Buddy: shhhhhh, the Giants are still having internal discussions about whether to make a ‘hometown discount’ bid for CC.
Hey Whozat I respect your opinion so i want to ask you what do you think of Harrison JR as a bench player. He plays everything except 1st base and catcher. Just wondering because we can have him for cheap,real cheap.
There are going to be quite a few playas on the outside looking in. The top free agents will all find comfy jobs, but a lot of the teams are choosing to go cheap. Philly picked up Ibanez for $10M per. That was a great pickup IMO.
What happens to guys like Burrell and Bobby Abreu?
Nick-
Gary Radnich has been gushing over Manny, can’t imagine why the Giants would bother with him. They have zero experience with egomaniacal LF’s in the past.
whozat is a whiny girl
With this rotation, Proctor’s arm could actually get a rest.
Buddy: Manny in left field at AT&T? He would try to climb into one of those fake Chevron cars on the wall to take a nap.
I do like Mike Cameron but why not just pick up Willy Taveras?
“What happens to guys like Burrell and Bobby Abreu?”
This is why they didn’t offer Bobby arbitration. Maybe he gets his money.
But at this point I bet 1 yr/ 18M would be looking very good to bobby.
And that money probably would have prevented them from signing AJ – a guy they had clearly been targeting (rightly or wrongly) as an organizational priority.
“I can sense the excitement and the confidence that’s spreading around the entire organization about what we’re getting done and what we may get done still,” the Yankees’ co-chairman told The Associated Press before news of the Burnett deal came out Friday. “A rising tide lifts all boats, and the confidence and the excitement right now among the team and the organization is contagious.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=0
We’ve been joking about Peter Gammons all day, but this is probably how he’s feeling right now:
http://tinyurl.com/69dxjx
“Who would be playing first if Swisher starts the season 0 for April? The Yankees will have someone backing up Swisher come the start of the season.”
So, you’re concerned about this AND you want to put a marginal prospect with a two month MLB track record in the starting lineup IN ADDITION?
“Cameron averages 150 strikeouts a year. He has finished in the top 10 every year.”
You say that as though it somehow matters more than getting on base at league-average rates, playing above-average defense at a premier position, and providing above-average pop for a CFer.
“He’s not worth 10 million. You actually think the Brewers would hold the Yanks ransom over Cameron? Seriously?”
I think that going into the season with Garder as the starting CFer does nothing except improver the Brewers’ position in a potential Cameron trade. They’d get more because they could. The Yanks would be more desperate, and some of Cammy’s salary would already be a sunk cost.
“I think there’s a better chance the Brewers would give him his 30 day pay and let him walk come Spring.”
You can’t just do that. You have to show that you’re cutting the player due to an inability to perform. Cameron is healthy and is certainly not going to show up and put up a .200/.200/.300 line. So they can’t just “let him walk” come spring.
“i want to ask you what do you think of Harrison JR as a bench player”
You mean Hairston Jr? I’m pretty indifferent. If Gardner is on the roster, you don’t really need anyone else who can play the OF. So, it becomes an issue of finding an IFer, and Hairston’s flexibility isn’t that big a boon at that point. If they don’t sign another bat, I’d bring Miranda on board as a 1B/PH type, and look for an defensive whiz of an infielder.
If Andy doesn’t come back, how about taking a chance at **Chris Capuano** or **Chuck James** as the #4 starter?Cashman wanted Capuano last season, so here’s his chance of acquiring him. He pitched over 200 innings twice.
Nick,
Much better. Sinatra and the Hi Lo’s beats Munch in Gammons related blog creativity by at least two joba fist pumps.
So when is Pettitte going to see the light? He would be a phenomenal #4 starter.
“But at this point I bet 1 yr/ 18M would be looking very good to bobby.”
I dunno. Bobby is demonstrably better than Ibanez, and Ibanez got 3/30. I figured if Bobby could get 3/36, he’d walk. Though, the way things were looking at the arby deadline…maybe Bobby would’ve just taken the 1/18. I mean, we weren’t hearing ANYTHING about him back then.
Either way, Ibanez is a terrible signing for the phils. He’s older than Burrell and a worse defender, and now they have him til he’s what, 39? And their lineup is even MORE vulnerable to lefties.
The Yanks talked about trading for Wigginton for the last two seasons at one point or another so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him added to our bench.
“The Yanks talked about trading for Wigginton for the last two seasons at one point or another”
That was when they were looking for a righty bat to take some 1B ABs from Giambi.
Now, they’re not looking for that anymore. And he’s a free agent, and will probably prefer a starting job somewhere else.
Thanks, CB. I try to appeal to different demographics.
Still, you have to wonder why Gammons hasn’t been heard from all day. Is he tied up? Could he be asking himself “Is it safe?”
http://tinyurl.com/2q44dz
(above link is *not* for the squeamish)
“Bobby is demonstrably better than Ibanez, and Ibanez got 3/30.”
But the market has already valued him as a considerably less significant asset than Ibanez.
Ibanez cost the Phils a first round draft pick and then the contract.
Yet he was still the phils first choice. They didn’t talk to Burrell or Abreu. Now bobby has history there but still – you do what you have to improve the team.
Ibanez is first off the board. Bad news for Abreu. The market for him is set or at least highly colored.
Abreu takes a $18m deal this year and goes back out on the market next and gets even a 2yr/20M deal next year he’s way ahead. That would make him $38M over three years. Plus he gets to play in NY for a marginal year – a place he did not want to leave.
I don’t see Abreu getting deal for more than 3 yrs/38M and I don’t know if he’ll have that much choice over where he plays.
Manny, Dunn and Burrell are still out there and are better hitters. Bobby’s going to have to wait.
He would have taken the 1 yr/18M in arb, IMO. He’d be foolish not to – he would have been getting paid by the old economics of the game at a time when the market is very soft in general and awful for his position. 18M would be his last shot at a major pay day. Whatever deal he gets in this market now he’d likely be able to get again next year after that arb year is over.
Prices on the open market are down 13% from last year. Supply in LF is greater than any other position. Bobby’s going to get squeezed.
I don’t see why the Yanks don’t just try to resign Abreu for a year. It’s not like Nady is going to be a lifetime Yankee and Abreu is a better player in almost every way.
We’re going to sorely miss his presence and consistency in the lineup. Everyone always says Matsui is consistent, but nobody in baseball is as consistent as Abreu.
100rbi, 285 avg, 20 sb, 20hr.
I don’t know if I see Nady with 100RBI but i know he’s not stealing 20 bases
Whozat – I can’t figure out if you are actually Cammy’s agent or Doug Melvin.
I’m not saying Cameron wouldn’t be an upgrade. I just don’t think he’s worth the 10 million. (and we aren’t even including the luxury tax dollars – so what’s that make it 14 mil?)
If 3 other teams were clamoring for Cameron and the Yankees had no other options besides Gardner – I might think differently. I just don’t see the pressing need. (on the Yankee side – I DO see it on the Brewer side – they’d rather spend that 10 million to replace CC and Sheets – and let Hart play CF)
Abreu undoes most of his offensive value in the field. Yanks should be trying to get net positives at every spot on the diamond.
I’ll definitely miss Bobby’s bat. But I will not miss him in right field. I know he wasn’t that horrible, but it wasn’t that good either. I hope he left his batter’s eye in Robbie’s locker.
Younger and more athletic.
Pretty stunned about Wiggington getting non tendered. He’s probably still too good to take the bench role on the Yankees. I’d love to have on the team next year though.
The Astros are a joke.
And Nick, you are officially the King of Youtube clips. The diverse selection you’re throwing out there tonight in honor Boston Pete is eclectic and delicious. Kudos.
Left-handed pitcher Wil Ledezma might be a good guy to sign to a minor league deal. Otherwise, besides Cabrera, Wigginton and Taveras the only player I see with talent out there is Britton and he definitely deserves a chance to be a regular. Maybe he’ll catch on with the Pirates or somebody. He might not be a bad guy for the Mets.
whozat-Thank you, I knew that and I’m sure he will be looking for a starting job but that doesn’t mean the Yankees interest will be any less than before.
“I know he wasn’t that horrible”
Actually…he was. He was among the worst — if not THE worst — defensive players in baseball last season. At any position.
“I just don’t think he’s worth the 10 million. (and we aren’t even including the luxury tax dollars – so what’s that make it 14 mil?)”
Well, the Yanks apparently don’t really want to pay him 10 mil either; they want the Brewers to eat some of the money.
Look, though…the deal is one year, and that flexibility is worth something as well. It means they won’t have to eat any money to trade someone in a year and a half when they want Jackson in CF. AND it’s taking them from below-replacement-level performance to solidly above average. That’s a big deal.
GB7,
Are you around? Albadalejo pitched another clean 1.2 innings today (1 hit, 1 of 3 inherited runners scored, though). That’s 9 saves in 11 appearances with a spotless ERA. I know it’s only winter ball, but his game must have taken some kind of leap.
I just saw that the Angels offered 8 years to Tex. Is that old news?
“that doesn’t mean the Yankees interest will be any less than before.”
No…but having Swisher could very well mean that their interest is less than before. Since they’re not looking for a righty corner IFer.
That’s a good argument.
Well one thing we should be looking for is a utility fielder. Looking at available players I favor Willie Bloomquist but Nomar Garciaparra (who might be able to start elsewhere, might not) would also be a nice signing IMO. What do you guys think about our utility situation and more specifically these two I’ve just named?
Cairo
Man, I was sure before the off-season that Teixeira would be a Yankee being that his idol is Donnie Baseball but once Swisher came I knew that was out the window unless we traded Damon or Matsui. At this point, I’m rooting for the Nats, O’s and Angels (in that order) to sign Tex so he doesn’t end up in Boston. I really think at this point he’ll end up a Red Sock and that just stinks because I like him as a player and we’ll have to deal with him for the next decade. GO NATS!!! LOL…
mel-LOL! I saw he was out there too. Thats funny. Well that certainly wouldn’t make us younger….LOL!!!
Nats 160 for 8 has been just matched by the LAA expect Washington to go 170 now.
Cairo’s ageless. He’s been around forever.
Miguel Cairo is horrible. He’s no longer a plus defender anywhere, nor is he even a tolerable hitter for an up-the-middle guy.
Jeff Keppinger could be an interesting bat to try to trade for. Not an amazing defender, but a decent bat. Nomar is no longer a plus defender anywhere either, and would cost more than the value he would bring to the team in the limited ABs that’d be available.
Bloomqist…wow, his bat is a noodle. Is he a plus defender at SS these days? Looking at the Hardball times numbers, he doesn’t look so good.
Dodgers non-tender Saito??
“Jeff Keppinger could be an interesting bat to try to trade for. ”
looks like Brandon and I aren’t the only ones that wants Keppinger.
Nick,
Yep.
“Dodgers non-tender Saito??”
He’s 39 and his elbow is all torn up.
Ringu-dingu-dingu. Boston’s on the line….
Totally O/T, I’ve been so wrapped up in hot stove that I’ve ignored the NBA. So what’s new? Kobe’s going to sport his signature low-top next week. 20% lighter than the conventional hi-top. Okay, back to our regular programming.
I must be mixing him up with someone else. Someone not 39 and with an untorn elbow.
Norris Hopper, anyone?
I’m sorry, I just can’t cheer for someone named Willie Bloom.
whozat-Calm down. We’re obviously joking around about Cairo. As far as the UT goes its a UT. I’m talking about a sub for multiple positions not a big bat. Do you even see anyone else out there that even plays more than two positions? I don’t think we’ll trade for a UT but who knows? Our WS teams had strong benches. Thats been a weakness in recent years. Any bench suggestions of your own.
Mel,
same here. He was out by 20 feet!!!
mel-LOL!
If the Tribune Company is going broke, how about Alfonso Soriano for our utility infielder?
BTW, mel, I don’t know if you saw my reply in an earlier thread, but the current line is Hawaii -1.5 — I like it.
-1.5
Yes, pound that line like poi. Errr. The strikezone.
What do you guys think Jeff Keppinger would cost? That is a very good suggestion. I was just thinking we’d go free agent route but bringing him in would certainly fill the bill. He is a good suggestion but I’d like to hear others.
If I’m going to go and get me a utility guy. He’s going to come with a tool belt that holds 6 different gloves. You guys know who I’m talking about.
Nick in SF-That Soriano line was funny but watch what you say because some people might take you too seriously.
…We could use him as a CF though….LOL!!!
“What do you guys think Jeff Keppinger would cost? ”
a right handed bat, or pitchers. Ramirez and Veras could make sense to trade Keppinger.
Bob the Builder?
As far as pounding analogies go, I thought mine was pretty tasteful.
Mel,
actually I don’t know. I’m thinking Chris Burke but its not him right?
By the way, I want Andy back but if Pettitte decides he cant possible live on $10M for the year is there ANY way we can afford to still sign Lowe even after CC and AJ? I was a big fan of Sheets but if he’s gonna need TJ surgery or something else he wont be worth it. I’m sure Andy will be back but you’d have to admit that while CC, Wang, AJ, Joba, Pettitte is a very strong and formidable rotation CC, Wang, AJ, Lowe, Joba would probably be the best rotation in all of baseball! The only one I can think of to really compare would be the Cubs.
Speaking of, if the Cubs do eventually trade for Peavy do you think Lilly will become available? I’d love to have Ted back.
I wouldn’t trade Veras for a UT. I’d trade Shelley Duncan though.
HaHa. Guess you didn’t see when we played the Angels and they had a picture of Chone Figgins’s gloves all laid out.
Nick, poi tastes horrible. And I’ve never even tried it. That’s how bad it is.
Our team missed Shelley’s spark once he was sent down though.
Dang, them Germans like their brats. Mercedes has dropped their sponsorship of the Brewers (who knew?).
“I wouldn’t trade Veras for a UT. I’d trade Shelley Duncan though.”
Melancon would replace Veras. Veras have his moments. Duncan have no value at all.
I wish Chone Figgins was a free agent. He’d be a perfect UT. He has speed too. And I’ve never seen a closer look-alike to Willie Randolph (during his playing days).
I heard he’s available. Let’s sign Tex, then trade him to the Angels. Tex & Edwar for Lackey & Figgins.
We’ll see how Melancon does when he has his shot. You never know about these prospects/rookies. Some are great in the minors and horrible in the pro’s and others never look like any kind of player and only get a call up by chance (injury, etc.) and they end up being All-Stars. You just never know. I hope Melancon does well but thats remains to be seen.
Shhh. Don’t tell Axelrod or “trade for peavy”, but we don’t have room for Jake.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-ru-5.html
that article needs to be hidden from “trade forpeavy”.
Ed,
Did you see that? “kicking and screaming” if asked to go to the AL?
Mel,
Yep. Peavy will be forced to go AL which he doesn’t like because Towers messed up this situation. Peavy is surely tick off about it.
Um, I think Theo is the one that needs to be hidden from.
Pettitte hasn’t signed yet.. we have room for Peavy.. and worse comes worse.. We have a 5th starter who can always go back to the pen
mel what were you thinking… Pete erase that post now.
Ugh, why am I up?
Very happy about this deal. You will hear a lot of bashing of Burnett and while his injury history is justifiably a point of interest, there are some plus’.
#1 – Burnett’s innings/season has gone up the past 3 seasons.
#2 – The Yankees (meaning the team) seem to love him. I don’t suppose they would be rallying for a pitcher that sucked.
#3 – Lowe was going to ask for $17 million to pitch into his forties and wasn’t good at all in his last two seasons in the AL.
#4 – Other teams were saying they weren’t impressed with Sheets’ medical records after he broke down at the end of last season. Burnett didn’t break down last season.
#5 – Most importantly, we got a flame-thrower at age 31-32 whatever he is for $0.5 million more per year than we paid Pettitte last year. I hear a lot about the Yankees spending 243.5 million on two pitchers. What they NEVER mention is that we are getting 12 years of service (assuming it all works out) for that money. And damn good service in that.
Adding Peavy would make our rotation ridiculous but what can we realistically give up for him? We’d probably have to kiss Hughes goodbye right? I just don’t know if we could even get a deal done. Maybe we could trade Cano but he might already cost too much. If they would take a Cano package (or Damon or Matsui who are very expendable) we could scoop up Orlando Hudson and get even better defensively. I have a feeling Peavy’s staying put and will be the big trade bate of next off-season.
Russell NY-Agreed on all accounts. (Even though I’d still gladly add Sheets or Lowe to the rotation.)
…and on that note, good night.
Food for thought: The 5th starter edition
(choose a rotation)
CC, Wang, AJ, Joba, Pettitte
CC, Wang, AJ, Lowe, Joba
CC, Wang, AJ, Joba, Hughes
CC, Wang, AJ, Sheets, Joba
I’ll play : CC/Wang/AJ/Hughes/Joba
Still like the idea of 3 homegrowns in the rotation and a whole lotta attention has been taken off of Hughes to (finally) show his potential. Will still be in keeping with Cash’s youth movement – everybody’s happy. Maybe it’s time to start parting with the “old guard” re: Pettitte. Let him go to Boston – Yanks’ll hammer him there.
Still think the Yanks are going to sign Tex. 10/200.
Impressive blog ya got here.
every writer around that is actually a fan of the yanks thinks this is a terrible contract – see riveraveblues, waswatching, bronxbanter and more on the right side of petes blog for details. AJ for 2 is solid, AJ for 3 is decent, AJ for 4 is a mistake, AJ for 5 well I guess we are going to find out wont we…
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:46 am
GB7,
Are you around? Albadalejo pitched another clean 1.2 innings today (1 hit, 1 of 3 inherited runners scored, though). That’s 9 saves in 11 appearances with a spotless ERA. I know it’s only winter ball, but his game must have taken some kind of leap.
I just saw that the Angels offered 8 years to Tex. Is that old news?
————————————————————
Yeah, Mel. I saw that he’s still getting everybody out. He’s looking healthy and impressive. Talk about getting an absolute steal from Washington, huh? 9 for 8 in saves. strikeouts are a bit lower than I’d think, but, those would great numbers for a 6th inning guy. only 1 walk and 8 hits in the 13+ innings.
Robinson Cano at .300 and a homer w/6 doubles. 50 at bats and on 3 strikeouts…impressive is the 5 walks…impressive, at least for him.
correction; 9 for 9 in saves.
dave
December 13th, 2008 at 5:49 am
every writer around that is actually a fan of the yanks thinks this is a terrible contract – see riveraveblues, waswatching, bronxbanter and more on the right side of petes blog for details. AJ for 2 is solid, AJ for 3 is decent, AJ for 4 is a mistake, AJ for 5 well I guess we are going to find out wont we…
————————————————————
That’s at least 3 that agree with you. Go there and join in their whining, then. It’s getting really old, here. If it’s not Burnett, it’s Cano or get Peavey, or get every bat on the market or trade Cano for Kemp….every day. My grandkids don’t whine that much and they’re 5 and 6.
Latest list of non-tendered players that I can find…courtesy of MLB Rumors.com
Joey Gathright, John Bale
Jamie Burke
Joe Nelson
Aaron Miles, Randy Flores, Tyler Johnson
Norris Hopper, Gary Majewski, Matt Belisle
Doug Mathis
Daniel Cabrera, Lance Cormier
Denny Bautista
Ty Wigginton, Reggie Abercrombie
Jonny Gomes
Willy Taveras
Takashi Saito, Scott Proctor, Yhency Brazoban, Angel Berroa
Clay Hensley and Charlie Haeger
Chris Britton and Justin Christian
Tim Redding
Chris Capuano
Kevin Cash
Chuck James
Chris Burke, Robby Hammock, Wil Ledezma, Jeff Salazar
GB, T
There is nobody on your list that stands out to me as someone the Yanks could use except one of the guys they non-tendered; Christian.
Everyone else is either not worth it, will likely get a full time gig (Wiggington) or excess.
yankee21
December 13th, 2008 at 7:04 am
GB, T
There is nobody on your list that stands out to me as someone the Yanks could use except one of the guys they non-tendered; Christian.
Everyone else is either not worth it, will likely get a full time gig (Wiggington) or excess
————————————————————
besides getting Christian back, only Aaron Miles as a utilty player. there are other FAs out there that could fill the utility role better than Ransom, like Alex Cora. Wigginton won’t sign here when teams like the Twins, Giants or even Philadelphia could offer him a starting job.
from RAB: “I’ll admit it. It’s hard to root for a team that’s simply trying to overwhelm everyone else by throwing money at a baseball problem, and if the Yanks do indeed sign a Manny Ramirez, Mark Teixeira or Adam Dunn to shore up the offense, this will truly be a team of highly-paid (and some may say overly-paid) mercenaries set to debut a ballpark that was built more as a major of revenue than as a true necessity.”
so last year’s team wasnt a team of highly-paid mercenaries ? at what point does a yankees fan decide he doesnt want to root for them b/c they buy other ppl’s talent? this guy should’ve become a giants fan when the yankees bought babe ruth.
cc
wang
burnett
pettitte/lowe/sheets
joba.
should be a very formidable pitching staff.
i just hope the offense scores when it needs to.it feels like we are missing a # 3 hitter.
we have an awesome #3 hitter: arod
bru
December 13th, 2008 at 7:39 am
cc
wang
burnett
pettitte/lowe/sheets
joba.
should be a very formidable pitching staff.
i just hope the offense scores when it needs to.it feels like we are missing a # 3 hitter.
————————————————————
Jesus…for the 25th time…NYY is not signing Lowe or Sheets. Read everything above as to why not.
so pettitte is the one????
i think they will definately sign one of probably pettitte or sheets because with the offense & joba plus last year they wan’t to make sure that the pitching is solid 1-5 with debth in hughes,acevez,etc….
i can see pettitte for a year 12 or 13 million.
ham biters
great now no cleanup hitter.
i can see sheets in boston.
they like the short contracts & always seem to get a pitcher at the right price.
Pete
I have become a Lo Hud junkie.I just want to thank you for the work you do on this blog. You have made this site the go-to yankee site. Thanks for making this winter a whole lot more interesting.
Would there be room on the 25-man roster for Wigginton, Ransom, and Gardner ?
Wigginton can play 1st,2nd, and 3rd bases plus the 2 OF corner positions.
today’s…u think wigginton is going to sign to back up the yankees infield when probably 10 other teams are going to want him to start?
Now that we have CC, AJ on the fold and the 2009 payroll is near $170 MM, let’s go out and sign Teix for 7-years and $21MM per.
Imagine the following:
Rotation:
1) CC
1A)Wang
2) AJ
3) Joba
4) Between Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy and maybe Daniel C.
Bullpen:
1) Mo
2) Bruney
3) Veras
4) Coke
5) Marte
6) E. Ramirez
Lineup:
Matsui
1) Damon
2) Jeter
3) Cano
4) A-Rod
?) Teix (Hope So)
6) Jorge
7) Nady
9) Melky or Cam
Bench:
1) Gardner
2) Swisher
3) Cody
4) Molina
5) Infield speed guy.
This is a championship team on the paper.
2009 prediction: matsui (25HR, 124RBI) wins comeback player of the year and the yankees win the WS.
how do you guys feel about signing manny for a couple a years, i’ve watched him hit to many homers against us, i’d hate to miss an offer at him.
Jerry from Queens
try 185 million
YANKS HAVE $36MM TO SPEND IF TGHEY WANT TI EQUAL LAST YEARS PAYROLL, SO GIVING TEX $23MM FOR & IS POSSIBLE> Leaves them with smaller payroll and much better team. They could also then trade Swisher and save $10MM on his deal.
What are you talking about no cleanup hitter?
3. A-Rod 4. Godzilla Matsui is an RBI machine and as long as he is on the roster we have to go under the assumption that he’s healthy.
Corrected Post —-YANKS HAVE $36MM TO SPEND IF THEY WANT TO EQUAL LAST YEARS PAYROLL, SO GIVING TEX $23MM FOR 8 years IS POSSIBLE> Leaves them with smaller payroll and much better team. They could also then trade Swisher and save $10MM on his deal.
Sabathia
Wang
Burnett
Hughes
Chamberlain
If anyone is worried about the 6th, 7th spots
Just let Aceves, Kennedy and some others from Scranton get a shot.
I think its time to seriously look at Manny . If we get Manny . we’re looking really really good !
What makes me laugh is that some people get all upset at how the Yankees do business…don’t they know that this has been going on since…oh yeah Babe Ruth!
Back in the day it was said that the Phil/KC A’s were the Yankees farm system, so I do not understand why all of these media types and bloggers write this stuff…it comes off as jealousy (see Marlins/Samson).
All I care about is that the team I root for puts a winner on the field. I have always been a believer in mixing in youth and letting them become important pieces of the team…but to say that 25 homegrown players will take you to the top is just crazy talk.
Which team was the last to do that? It has always been the big addition that has put teams over the top.
And for anyone to say the Sawx, just go back and look at the 2004 team, which had I think 1 or 2 homegrown players, Nixon comes to mind. The Schilling trade was Calangelos way giving The Boss the Finger for Wells…I can go on.
2007 was little different, but if it wasn’t for the big Dice-K signing and the Mike Lowell/Beckett trade in 2006, they may have had two years in a row of missing the playoffs.
Back to the Yankees, it’s funny how someone like Lupica and other media types write for years that the Yankees need players like CC, AJ, Tex and when they get them they rip the Yankees for doing it…they should be happy it, gives them columns to write.
This has been everything that one Yankee fan has wanted since 2003, having a pitching staff that makes other teams have doubt before the series even starts…seeing that Ponson and Rasner were lined up to pitch the first two games really must have made teams worry (sorry Sidney and Darrell).
The other thing that no one seems to be talking about, which really makes me happy is, do you think for a second that CC, AJ or Joba would be worried to throw inside if say Beckett or anyone else for that matter throws high and tight to Jeter or Arod…I think not.
So as long as there is meaningful baseball to watch in October that is all I care about…I will worry how to pay for it when the time comes. I am pretty confident that the ticket will be hard to get.
Vader, good points.
Another benefit the signings of CC and AJ have is to dramatically reduce the pressure on guys like Joba and ultimately Hughes and others to instantly have to succeed on the big stage of NY.
This benefit cannot be overstated. Joba needs to mature and learn how to handle the rigors of taking the ball every 5th day and gradually build up his innings and experience.
Whereas Hughes clearly needs to master a 3rd pitch and learn how to stay healthy for a season and fight off the fluke injuries and take the ball from Apr-Oct.
Just need to sign Andy for 10mil, and the staff will be complete.
josh
December 13th, 2008 at 9:22 am
how do you guys feel about signing manny for a couple a years, i’ve watched him hit to many homers against us, i’d hate to miss an offer at him.
————————————————————
manyy would be great for 2 yrs 45 million as long as we don’t sign another pitcher or cameron.
right now if we started at 145 million i believe that is with arbitration factored in + cc for 23 + burnett for 16 & change we are around 183 million or so.
take a shot at cabrera.nothing to lose.
i’d like to see the yankees do a smaller move for a pitcher & cf.
sign cabrera,forget cameron,do a trade for a cf.see if we can get a good young cf for 2 or 3 players or prospects,maybe a bullpen arm,kennedy,ajax.
we have the pitching now & should take advantage of it & get a cf & sign cabrera.
“I think its time to seriously look at Manny.”
Um, no it’s not.
Letting Hughes who is only 22!! work in AAA has to be a good thing.
CB, why would the Orioles give up on Daniel Cabrera simply because he lost a few mph on his fastball?
Cabrera only earned $5.4 million — only– last year.
Following arbitration, he might have earned, what, another 1.6 million next year.
I’m utterly baffled that the Orioles would just cut him.
Do you mean to tell me there wasn’t a single team in all of baseball interested in a starting pitcher who threw 180 innings last year and 200 the previous year? My god, just half a season with good stuff and below 4.00 ERA baseball should be worth something.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Brewers or Jays– or God forbid, the Sux– sign Cabrera. Both of the two former team desperately need starters.
Among non-tenders, Chris Burke is a semi-interesting guy. A 1st round pick (#10 by the Stros)not too long ago, he’s still a pretty young guy at 28 years old and can fill in at a few different positions. His claim to fame is the 18th inning homer to send the Stros to the 2005 NLCS, but his career really never took shape. Might be worth a flier.
Why would the Yankes trade Austin Jackson in a package for a young Center Fielder?
Trading Kennedy and Jackson for a young CF is like trading $20 for $15.
The Cameron move, if it is made, will give the Yankees one year of above average production from the CF spot while Jackson gets some experience in AAA. It’s a solid move.
Using Pete’s math the Yanks have about $ 20 M left to spend and if they do the Maeron deal and Pettite accepts their offer they are essentially done. That oculd be a fine ballclub.
Frankly I would prefer they let the kid compete for the # 5 job and see how it al plays out. I think it was Davidoff who wrote a column to that effect and I agree. Maybe Andy comes back in June for $ 6 M for a part of a season.
Wigginton would be a great get and between all the positions he can play, the age of some Yankees and the presence of the DH he’ll get planty of PT. That’s a wise use of $ 3 M as far as I’m concerned. I think they’ll be okay in CF through competition between Melky and Gardner and maybe using Damon there some. Tavares might be worth a cheap flier, but the dude can’t hit.
the “Cameron” deal.. nice typo!
Fredo, you must be please about Wiggy’s availability. Do you think the Yankees sign him as a utility guy or are they going to stick with Cody Ransom?
It’s the time to get Tex or Manny.
“Wigginton would be a great get and between all the positions he can play, the age of some Yankees and the presence of the DH he’ll get planty of PT.”
No wouldn’t get 200 PA’s on this team. On plenty others he can get 400-500.
Swisher to CF and Wiggy to !st ? No to Cameron.What about kicking the tires on Aaron Rowand or Randy Winn.What the hell, lets just pay for Tex.
Laura – With this pitching staff, how can we lose?
December 13th, 2008 at 9:59 am
“I think its time to seriously look at Manny.”
Um, no it’s not.
—–
Laura, you got me excited for a minute. I thought you were coming over to the dark side.
Either way we need one more bat.
Have I made my vote for Tex yet?
The money will be there.
“Swisher to CF and Wiggy to !st ? No to Cameron.”
Swisher was the 3rd worst CF in the league according to David Pinto’s PMR.
Swisher also knows he can’t play CF. When a player comes out and says they can’t play a position I generally tend to take their word for it.
KS,
The Orioles non-tendering Cabrera is puzzling. Normally i’d chalk it up to Angelos but since McPhail’s taken over he’s run the team remarkably well.
The orioles invested a huge fixed cost into Cabrera in terms of time and opportunity.
Last year they felt like he had finally started listening to the coaches rather than ignoring them. That he was becoming more of a pitcher than thrower.
But then the wheels came of in terms of his stuff.
It’s curious that they would just non-tender him but McPhail is a very good baseball guy and he wouldn’t just do that unless he had to.
Probably a combination of things – I’d guess they weren’t willing to risk the money on a guy who might blow out his shoulder.
Cabrera will most definitely get signed. The Brewers are desperate so that’s a good though. I could see the cardinals or the royals being interested as well.
It says a lot about the state of economic anxiety in the game.
KS:
I think there are plenty of places where Wiggy can go and be locked into 400-500 plate appearances and get paid accordingly. He can’t get that with the Yankees and the Yankees can’t (or at least shouldn’t) pay him real money to play the Cairo/Sojo role for them.
forget Pettitte, trade for Peavy. thats all i have to say about that.
Sabathia, Wang, Peavy, Burnett, Joba?
seriously?
there has never been as dominant a rotation in the history of baseball then that has the potential to be.
I would say the most interesting part of this offseason is my current mindset…
It’s incredible to be able to think, “well, if (insert pitchers name here) gets injured, we could always just call up Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Mitre (later on in the year), convert Coke back to a starter, Give someone like McCallister a chance, maybe Kontos, or even maybe Cox…
… just saying….
Thoughts on Teixeira after reading article by Thomas Boswell of the Washinton Post.
The soft side of Teixeira wants to take his wife and kids, ages 1 and 2, back close to his home in Maryland where his mother, a cancer survivor, and father a benign brain tumor survivor live.
Now for the hard side of Teixeira. He was projected as a 1st rounder out of high school and told the Red Sox that a 1.5M bonus offer was not enough, whereupon the Red Sox put the word out he was unsignable and going to Georgia Tech. He then became a 9th round choice.Teixeira at the time responded ” They spoiled me for everyone else.”
Being a Boras client, IMO will balance the “hard” side with the “soft” side.
If he holds a grudge, he will not sign with Boston.
If he wants to be near Baltimore, he will not commit to 8-10 years with the Angels, unless they give him an opt out clause in the early years.
If Baltimore is close to the top offer he’ll sign with them over the Nationals, still maybe with an opt out clause if the teams don’t improve.
If he were in the 2010 FA class he’d be a Yankee!!
Just my thoughts since the Yankees have the money, but will not want to break the 200M dollar mark, focusing on spending the $$$ on starting pitching this year.
Fredo–
I disagree completely.
Wigginton could be in the lineup against all lefty starters depending on what else happens with the roster. Most of the NYY every day players are 35-ish which means they’ll benefit from more days off/days as DH. Plus Wigginton might be willing to swap playing time for the chance to win since he’s not played in the post-season.
There’s no way Wigginton takes a bench job. He had a fantastic season last year.
He had an .876 OPS over 430 AB. If he’d gotten some more at bats to qualify for the league leaders, that would have been the 5th highest OPS of any 3rd baseman in baseball. And its not like 430 AB is some small sample.
The astros are unbelievable. They cut the guy with the 5th highest OPS at his position.
And 3b is a very difficult position to find a decent player at.
Wigginton is better than Casey Blake who had multiple teams pursuing him.
I’d think that the Twins or the Giants are very happy to see Wigginton let go.
“If he holds a grudge, he will not sign with Boston.”
Forget this. His issues were with guys who haven’t been with the Boston organization for years.
When I read Cabrera’s name on the non-tender list I was sure the journalist had mistaken him for another Cabrera, like Melky, perhaps.
I wonder what the Jays rotation is going to look like next year.
Halliday, Purcey, then what? I know McGowan is out until at least the All-Star break. And I think Marcum is done for the whole season.
I’d love to steal Alex Rios from them, but Toronto won’t trade him and certainly not to the Yankees.
Jays are another mystery to me: why a team with that much pitching talent continues to personify mediocrity I can’t fathom?
Right now, I’m still praying that Girardi and Cashman’s new defense fixation hasn’t blinded the Yankees to the imperative of acquiring another power bat for the lineup, preferably a lefty or switch-hitter, not strikeout king, Mike Cameron (a more patient hitter than I realized but still a subpar OBA.)
One thing the Yankees must be pondering.
20-22 million left to “burn”.
Does it go to Pettitte or Sheets and Cameron?
Or, do you make a run at Tex and have Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy battle it out for the final spot in the rotation. That leaves Swisher as an expensive guy off the bench or trade bait.
Intriguing options.
With so many bats available in January, I’d probably pick the first option.
Option 2 though is awfully tempting.
So CB, Fredo, is Ransom the utility guy?
BTW, the guys over at Roberto Duran’s site make a very compelling case for Adam Dunn, if he’d accept a 3-year deal.
I was hardly a devotee of his, but then I checked the numbers again and I realized his strikeout totals mask his 400.OBA and his 4.4 P/PA.
I wonder how his numbers translate in the AL.
BTW, did you guys realize the NEW stadium has more foul territory between the dugouts and 1B/3B?
I wonder how many points hitters will lose at the new stadium as a consequence?
With Joba being on an innings limit, and Burnett only averaging about 130 innings a year, it would be wise to go after another 200 innings starter.
“Jays are another mystery to me: why a team with that much pitching talent continues to personify mediocrity I can’t fathom? ”
They push their pitchers too hard at too young an age and have systematically destroyed one arm after another.
People keep talking about their offense – which isn’t good at all.
But their development program is terrible – they took their talent and forced them to get to the major leagues too quickly – kept increasing their workload too fast.
And nearly all of that young pitching now has serious arm problems.
At the moment, my pick for the player with the greatest influence on the AL East race next year: Scott Kazmir.
What was wrong with him last year that he couldn’t throw that slider? Arm injury? Fatigue? Something more chronic?
SJ44-
I really don’t think option 2 is an option for the Yankees, this year. If he were a FA in 2010, then yes
I wonder how many indiscretions from JP Riccardi will the Jays’ ownership group tolerate before they finally fire him.
I don’t how that guy has managed to retain his job this long.
KS,
Ransom could be the utility guy but I have a feeling they will pick up someone else – a better defensive player.
That Cashman was already voicing interest in Nick Punto so early in the free agent season says a lot.
The tough thing with utility guys is finding someone who can play a decent short. They need that given jeter’s age.
To me that’s the big issue with ransom. He really can’t play short well. He’s got a lot of power but they could use a better defender and someone with speed.
Not a lot out there. I really liked the idea of Punto but wasn’t sure if he’d agree to be a utility guy. He signed for way more money that I was guessing he’d get to be the twins starting SS.
SJ44,
Early on in the process you seemed to indicate there was no possibility of CC and Tex. Are you simply rethinking the alternatives now or do you have information you didn’t before? Thanks.
“With Joba being on an innings limit, and Burnett only averaging about 130 innings a year, it would be wise to go after another 200 innings starter”
Someone like Andy Pettitte???
Is anyone else sick and tired of hearing about Jake Peavy? What a crybaby.
He wants to be traded and yet he is whining about staying in the NL and not being interested in any teams except the Yankees and Sox because they spend money and are in contention.
What a joke. I want nothing to do with that guy.
I really don’t see us signing another power bat. I think our team is pretty set…assuming Pettitte signs, the possibility of the Cameron trade, and perhaps a million or two for a bench/utility player.
Even without a power bat I think this offseason can be considered a successful one.
If we could add another bat, I would be all for it but I don’t see it happening.
A lot of people insist that because we had 88M come off the books, we have 88M to spend. That is simply not true.
Between the aquisition of Swisher, the salary increase to Arod (from the structure of the contract), the raises all around for the arbitration eligible, and the desire to not have another 210M dollar payroll, I think Cashman is done.
SJ44
December 13th, 2008 at 10:44 am
One thing the Yankees must be pondering.
20-22 million left to “burn”.
Does it go to Pettitte or Sheets and Cameron?
Or, do you make a run at Tex and have Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy battle it out for the final spot in the rotation. That leaves Swisher as an expensive guy off the bench or trade bait.
Intriguing options.
With so many bats available in January, I’d probably pick the first option.
Option 2 though is awfully tempting.
—-
I’m not sure of the mechanics but if you could find a way to defer some of the 2009 salary then in essence it would be like signing him next year. If he wants to be here then he would probably go for that.
Swish could be traded or get creative trading Matsui or Nady.
We need Tex and certainly not let him go to Boston if for no other reason to stick it in Gammons face.
If we would sign him next year then we can sign him this year as next years bats are weaker.
SJ44
Option 2 is very real, but can they outbid the Angels.
If so, they become the most formidable team in the AL East.
Good point CB about SS, especially with Jeter turning 35 next year.
I’m still puzzled by why the Yankees traded Alberto Gonzales, for this very reason. I thought in his limited opportunity he performed well for a backup. He reminded me a little of Alvaro Espinoza.
“With Joba being on an innings limit, and Burnett only averaging about 130 innings a year, it would be wise to go after another 200 innings starter”
Fredo
Or maybe Santana. The Wilbons apparently lost billions in the Madoff scandal. They may be broke. Perhaps they will sell Santana to the NYY in something of a ‘fire sale.’
Too bad John Henry’s not Jewish, and doesn’t live in NY or Palm Beach. He might have invested the Red Sox money with Bernard Madoff. (I’m just kidding.)
I’m slightly amused that the Wilpons lost money with Madoff. They’re notoriously frugal. A guy I went to law school with worked for them for a while.
His Christmas bonus? $500.
And that was 5 years ago when the market was thriving.
I actually agree entirely with the way SJ44 put that..
It has to be going through the Brass’ minds right now…
Why not Tex as a three hitter?
I would think that Hughes, Kennedy, and Aceves battling for one rotation spot would be quite something to watch.. I mean Hughes could still become an Ace.. Aceves could EASILY have an ERA somewhere in the ballpark of 3.5-4.5.. Kennedy… could use another chance? to prove why he was our first round choice.. maybe gain some confidence back..
Our greatest weakness is at the middle of our line-up right now.. we need that “other” power source.. Maybe it can be Cano, maybe it can be Swish, Matsui, Posada, Nady..
But IMO I would rather have it as DEFINITELY Tex and have a questionable 5th starter, then have an okay 5th and a pile of “maybes” as 3rd or 4th hitters (whichever spot A-rod is not taking)
“With so many bats available in January, I’d probably pick the first option.
Option 2 though is awfully tempting.”
It is a tempting option. I think it really gets down to whether they want to put another long term deal on to their books and how committed they are to a pitching first philosophy.
It’s clear they’ve been waiting for a while to change the paradigm of the team back to a pitching oriented one.
They’re now 90% there. If you’ve gone this far do you go all in?
Between Joba’s innings cap and Burnett’s health I think they need Andy.
And your point on picking up a hitter in January is very true.
Who is going to sign Abreu? He’s so far down the list of hitters right now with Manny, Dunn, and Burrell in front of him (no idea what the phils were doing with ibanez…)
Perhaps this is off base – but to me the bigger question is given how much money you’ve already invested and the money coming off the books next year – do you basically set aside the budget for 2009 and sign Pettitte and still make a run at Tex?
I know they don’t want to do that – but given the massive investment they’ve already made do you go for the jugular right now?
It’s easy for me to say that as a fan. But they really have spent a lot of money and already taken on a huge amount of risk.
I guess what I’m wondering now – is this really a 3 year plan? Do they really think CC may leave in 3 years and they have to get it done in this 3 year window? CC, Mo, Jorge, alex and jeter getting older?
If it’s a 3 year window then the opportunity cost of not signing a guy like Tex is enormous as well.
You can wait until next year and sign a guy like Holliday. But why waste a season? Why wait for 1/3 of your window to potentially close?
It’s not easy at all. I’m just wondering how their opportunity costs may have changed by signing CC and AJ to the specific contracts that they have at the money that they have.
You guys and your wily money-spending ideas.
The only move that makes sense at this point is Andy Pettitte being re-signed. We’ll have the best rotation in baseball bar none. We don’t need to spend money on Sheets since Hughes should FINALLY be ready by 2010 to enter the rotation full time. One year deal to Andy.
I think Cameron would be a good fit in CF for a year, especially if it means ridding ourselves of Melky.
“I wonder how many indiscretions from JP Riccardi will the Jays’ ownership group tolerate before they finally fire him.”
I’ve been following the workloads of the young Toronto pitchers as they’ve progressed through the minors and into the majors.
It’s awful what they did to them. Anyone who thinks young pitchers are babied should go back and look at how Toronto handled those pitchers.
They wanted them in the majors ASAP.
They go their and never stuck. McGowan should be one of the top starters in the league.
Instead his career might be over.
It really would be a shame for offensive production to become our “achilles heel”… it would actually be funny to watch us go from the team that used to win because we could produce runs to the team that won the 1 run games.. I am not saying that we will not score a lot of runs.. I just really think we need another bat a lot more then we need a 5 starter… we have IMO the best (when healthy) top 4 in baseball… why not have a ? as a 5 and sign Tex
For everyone who thinks we will pursue Teixeira- here’s an option, not floated in a long while, which should raise a “firestorm.”
Assuming the Angels are out of the running for Teixeira, and like Beltran, he tells Boras he wants to play for the Yankees for less here’s a trade with the Angels that “might” make everyone happy.
Trade Alex Rodriguez [no cash] to the Angels for the contracts of Lackey [a FA in 2010- although I'd prefer Saunders or Santana], Hunter, and Chone Figgins. Now you’re not signing Pettitte or trading for Cameron, and you might need to give the Angels Melky to play OF for them. Angels can then sign a remaining FA pitcher if they want to.
Lineup:-any permutations of this balanced lineup will do!!!
Figgins 3B switch hitter
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B switch hitter
Hunter CF
Jeter SS
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Cano 2B
Posada C switch hitter
Bench
Swisher switch hitter- can play 1B and OF
Molina
Ransom/ or a nontender/ or a FA
Gardner
Starters
Sabathia
Burnett
Lackey
Wang
Joba
Oh, I just woke up from my perfect REM sleep!!! LOL
CB-
“I wonder how many indiscretions from JP Riccardi will the Jays’ ownership group tolerate before they finally fire him.”
“I’ve been following the workloads of the young Toronto pitchers as they’ve progressed through the minors and into the majors.
It’s awful what they did to them. Anyone who thinks young pitchers are babied should go back and look at how Toronto handled those pitchers.”
While looking up mechanics of AJ Burnett read an article about just what you’re saying, and know the Yankees are much more conservative in protecting their costly investments.
“The Wilbons apparently lost billions in the Madoff scandal. They may be broke. Perhaps they will sell Santana to the NYY in something of a ‘fire sale.’”
Forget the Wilpons. If the auto industry “bailout” doesn’t happen or if FORD, GM and/or Chrysler survive but scale way back, you could have a fire sale that would make Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow jealous. Kenny Williams must not be getting much sleep these days.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=nfl
Yankee Trader,
Just stop. Please please please just stop.
Trade A-Rod so we can sign Teixeira…that puts us right back where we currently are other than the fact that A-Rod, while mentally challenged, is far better than Teixeira.
My greatest criticism of the Yankees’ Front-Office is precisely the absence of the very perspective your last post CB reflects.
I don’t think they consider the long-term at all or even the near term, for the matter.
If they did, I would argue, they should have prioritized Teixeira alongside Sabathia.
Their AA and AAA teams are full of young arms, many of whom are a year or two away from making major contributions. You, CB, and SJ44 know this better than I.
Their system, on the other hand, lacks commensurate talent in position players, and those they do have, are buried in Single A and years away from contributing.
An aging team composed of position players 33 and over– with only two starters under 30 signed for the 2010 roster- clamors for a young impact bat like Teixeira.
Signing Holliday next year would help but I think Tex is a sounder investment, better defensively, more certain offensively (no Coors field disparity), and at a more desirable power position.
Riddle me this. The Yankees
Forget Andy… let Hughes be the #5 pitcher.
Andy had a 4.4 ERA last year, Hughes can do that for about 9.5 million less.
Wow…the crazy, unrealistic trade ideas never cease on here…i should learn to ignore them.
Trade A-Rod?
WWMD (What Would Madonna Do)
They should have gone for Teixeria before they went for Burnett.
The idea that Cashman is so adamant about pitching shows he doesn’t get it. Did he watch the offense last year? And that inconsistent offense just lost our 2 biggest RBI/OBP guys in Giambi and Abreu.
Yes, we finally have a good rotation but the offense has the looks of a maddening inconsistent one that will not hit good pitching or hit in big spots (too many holes between Cameron, Nady, Swisher etc.)
Does A Rod have a full no trade clause? partial?
“Trade A-Rod?
WWMD (What Would Madonna Do)”
Break up or move to LA!!
Mad Prince-
Sorry I offended you and your love for A-Rod, but I just wanted to raise another way, while staying within budget, to make the starting pitching the best, improve our defense,team speed, and hopefully scoring.
Good morning, everyone. Looking at yesterday’s print newspaper, I saw an article about the two NY teams having a great winter meeting. They showed some nasty headlines from the NY “papers”. Ouch.
O doesn’t know how to fire a manager, but he sure knows how to call a spade a spade. He said the 2 NY teams had flexibility and financial means to make deals so they were able to get stuff done. But then he kind of slid in there’s a lot of financial parity. Teams just aren’t making moves. The NY teams are choosing to get it done.
My question on the Teix man is not Yankee related. If the Angels and Nats (possibly O’s) reported deals are already on the table for 20+ a year over nearly a decade what are the Sox waiting for? They’re the ones who have been media whoring about him since the start of free agency and there’s no offer even rumored to be on the table from them. Was it all just posturing or are they setting up the mega-deal to essentially CC him away from everybody else.
KS– What state did you take the bar in?
You guys have to start accepting the fact that Alex Rodriguez will be a Yankee for 9 more years, 6-7 at the very least.
He’s not going anywhere.
And btw, you should admire a guy with his virility. I’m Alex’s age and I could never do what he does with a 50-yr old woman. Christie Brinkley, maybe. But god knows, not Madonna. Ech. (Big Unit Shrivels)
A-Rod must have some kind of Canseco fixation. He seems compelled to go everywhere Jose has gone.
Hey, whatever A-Rod does is fine with me. As long as he hits 40+ Hrs every year and .300 with RISP, I won’t complain.
Me? Rob: NY, NJ, MA.
I would love for the Yankees to do with Tex what the Cali teams should’ve done with CC. Throw our hat in the ring. Put in a solid, sane offer for the 1B. 6-7 years. $20M+ per. Of course we don’t need to get into a bidding war, but it would be a great opportunity for Tex to change perceptions about him.
Apples to oranges, but it came down to location for AJ. You never know what other intangibles might be important to Tex. You can’t win if you don’t bid.
That’s awesome. So i’m at Suffolk Law and probably going to take the bar in MA but my family is still in NY and I plan on moving south at some point. (sorry for the long fact pattern) Question is, how was it taking the test 3 times and did any of them have some sort of reciprocity for the other?
I have no info on it Ron. Just throwing out ideas.
Ironically KS, every move made so far has long term benefit to the Yankees.
Right now, the oldest starter in the rotation is Burnett at 32.
Swisher is only 27. Nady is 6 years younger than Abreu.
Even if they get Cameron, it’s a stop gap measure until Jackson is ready. He’s not being blocked to the majors.
How they round out the team is going to be fun to watch.
I’m in Atlanta on business this weekend and they are heartbroken they lost Burnett. They really thought they had him.
“Hey, whatever A-Rod does is fine with me. As long as he hits 40+ Hrs every year and .300 with RISP, I won’t complain.”
When’s the last time he had 40+ homers and hit .300 with RISP in the same year??
Fredo Corleone
December 13th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Among non-tenders, Chris Burke is a semi-interesting guy. A 1st round pick (#10 by the Stros)not too long ago, he’s still a pretty young guy at 28 years old and can fill in at a few different positions. His claim to fame is the 18th inning homer to send the Stros to the 2005 NLCS, but his career really never took shape. Might be worth a flier.
————————————————————
There are a couple of others available for a little money and no talent. Aaron Miles is a non-tender, but, a fa that’s a better option because he can play shortstop as well as Jeter and he hits a little is Alex Cora.
“I don’t think they consider the long-term at all or even the near term, for the matter. ”
I’m not so sure of that.
I think this off season speaks to that.
I thought this last year as well – but a big reason why the yanks passed on Santana was CC’s availability this off season for money only.
Was that the determining factor? No. Did that influence their decision last year? I think it did and from what we’re hearing now that’s very true. They were targeting CC from at least last year.
The yankee’s last dynasty was founded on not just good pitching – but very deep pitching in the starting rotation.
The team got completely away from that after 2001.
This off season they’ve been aggressive about signing pitcher because there is very strong depth in pitching this off season. Next year the pitching market is awful.
To me what they’re doing now is the product of a lot of long term thinking. They were patient last off season as they wanted to keep their young talent and knew there was a lot of starting talent that would be on the market this off season. Or at least that was the risk they were willing to take.
And it’s worked out. But it was planned.
Let me give you an example. One of the most specific ways the yankee’s pitching fell off after 2001 was that their starting pitching just couldn’t strike anyone out anymore. They didn’t miss any bats. They were close to the bottom in staff strike outs every year since.
Why is this so important? The yankee’s defense isn’t very good – but the lack of strikeouts make it look even worse than it is. It exposes them even more.
Outside of the strikeouts – guys who miss bats are likely to induce contact that’s not quite as good. The hitters can’t exactly square up the ball.
Look what they did to the bull pen from 2007 to 2008 – they completely transformed it from close to the bottom in strike outs to one of the highest strikeout rates of any pen in the majors.
Now look at what they are doing with the starting staff. AJ was first in strikeout rate last year. CC was fifth. And that’s in addition to Joba.
None of this is an accident, IMO. It’s planned. It’s been planned.
It’s easy for us to say they should really go all in and spend more and get tex. I did that in my prior post. I’m sure it’s something they’ve considered.
But if they don’t do it – it’s not because they don’t have long term thinking. It’s because they are a business, with a budget that has made an organizational change decision – deep starting pitching wins and it especially wins in the post season. That’s where we will allocate our resources.
During the dynasty years they had deep rotations, dominant pens and line ups that were consistent and deep more than they were star studded.
This team is feeling very similar to that kind of model.
During those great years the yankees consistently had staff that put up ERA+ of around 105-115 – and that was always amongst the best in the league.
But they fell way below 100 for years – that makes them below average.
Last year their staff ERA+ was 104 – that was largely due to the bull pen.
That ERA+ is going to be much better next year.
This has been planned.
Tex is not happenning. The Cameron trade will end that talk. There are no secrets here, the Yankees will add Pettitte and Cameron and maybe a utility player like Wiggington. With the raises coming for younger players, this could take the payroll to $200M. It’s ok though, with full years from Swisher, Nady and Cameron, bounce back years from Cano, Jorge and Matsui, the offense will be much improved.
When did Farnsworth get so sexy? His deal includes an team option for ’11.`
Rob,
I took NY and NJ at the same time, over three days, with the multi-state in between. To be honest, I only studied NY law. I memorized a few of the anomalies between NY and NJ law in case they arose on the exam but they didn’t.
(Here’s a dirty little secret no one wants you to know: if you perform really well on the multi-state, in BIG states like NY, when thousands take the exam, the readers will only cursorily read your answers. They figure if you’ve done real well on the multi-state and aren’t illiterate, you’ve capable of practicing law. )
So if you know– I mean, know it cold– the multi-state subject and one state’s law, you should be able to pass any other state without difficulty. (A weekend spent studying the state’s anomalies should suffice.)
Massachusetts, also, wasn’t too different from NY and NJ and I took it within six months so I hadn’t forgotten that much. (Note: take as many as you can as soon as you can because within 5 years, you’ll forget everything.)
NJ, I took, because they DO NOT have a reciprocity agreement. I can’t recall whether Mass does or not but it didn’t matter for me b/c I hadn’t practiced 5-years at the time.
Whatever you do, spend the $ and take a review course like Barbri or Pieper. They’re indispensable. I still have the books, in fact, ten years later, and consult them from time to time.
34 Score
December 13th, 2008 at 11:23 am
They should have gone for Teixeria before they went for Burnett.
The idea that Cashman is so adamant about pitching shows he doesn’t get it. Did he watch the offense last year? And that inconsistent offense just lost our 2 biggest RBI/OBP guys in Giambi and Abreu.
Yes, we finally have a good rotation but the offense has the looks of a maddening inconsistent one that will not hit good pitching or hit in big spots (too many holes between Cameron, Nady, Swisher etc.)
————————————————————
I’m sure he saw the offense, but, he also had a difficult time watching Ponson, Rasner and a cast of thousands pitch in three of the 5 rotation spots.
“I don’t think they consider the long-term at all or even the near term, for the matter.
If they did, I would argue, they should have prioritized Teixeira alongside Sabathia. ”
This is not true.
The very reason they are not agressively pursuing Tex is bacause of long term implicaitons.
Most of the people think that Montero will be 1B and in a couple of years you need roster space for Posada and Jeter at places other than C and SS. The primary places are DH and 1B.
So, not pursuing Tex for 8 or 10 years does not makes sense. Montero may not pan out, but today he is doing very well.
On the other hand, getting Manny for three years will fit with short term plans. In 2008, Giradi has to figure out a way to distribute time for Matsui and other corner OFs. They can always trade one during the spring training if Matsui proves he is fully healthy.
Yankee Trader
December 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am
“Hey, whatever A-Rod does is fine with me. As long as he hits 40+ Hrs every year and .300 with RISP, I won’t complain.”
When’s the last time he had 40+ homers and hit .300 with RISP in the same year??
————————————————————
How about 2007?
KS– thanks for the information, I can’t imagine that every law student isn’t a bit petrified about the bar. 165k in student loans to fail the licensing exam would make it something of a bad investment.
CB-
Re: the 11:38 post: agreed.
Two more cents thrown in…
All other things being equal, run prevention via pitching is more important (i.e., valuable) than run creation, or at least I think that was more or less the latest “flash” out of Vince Gennaro’s grad-school baseball business think tank at Manhattanville. (It’s been received baseball wisdom for years – good pitching beats good hitting – but now with Bill James and Vince Gennaro it’s coming into more demonstrable, quantitative focus).
Possibly a Teixeira signing would make sense if the Steinbrenners and Cashman feel like they only have a 4 year window at best before they have to develop a new core of players, with Posada, Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter gone or at the end of the line and Rodriguez getting closer to a DH role.
I don’t think the Yankees are holding back on Teixeira because he’ll block the position.
We haven’t had a real 1B in oh so long and he’s a perfect fit for the club.
They’ve just chosen to prioritize pitching and have realized that it would take close to a $200M commitment.
Still, Cashman, just put in a bid. He might bite!
$200M commitment to Teixeira.
CB, here’s a stat that might interest you.
Here’s how the Yankees have finished in RS in the AL the last ten years
1997 2nd
1998 1st
1999 3rd
2000 6th
2001 5th
2002 1st
2003 3rd
2004 2nd
2005 2nd
2006 1st
2007 1st
In 2008, they finished 7th.
So what would YOU infer from the numbers I list above.
BTW, in 2008, Giambi and Abreu, according, to their RC totals, accounted for ~25% of those runs.
Excellent post CB. 90′s Yankee swagger came from pitching depth and a lights out bullpen. No one feared the Yankee lineup. Cleveland/Baltimore/Seattle/Texas all had superior offenses to the Yankees in those years. This years potential rotation/bullpen will have a cascade effect on the hitters and imo, the Yankees will take the division.
I remember once watching Daniel Cabrera shut down the Yanks in such a convincing way, I wished he’d become available to sign before he became too expensive to sign.
Now he’s become available but … no thanks. He still has nasty stuff but if it seemed at all possible for him to gain control of it, Baltimore would probably not be giving up on him now.
If Nardi Contreras thinks he can work miracles, maybe he’s worth offering a minor league deal to Cabrera. Too bad … it seems Cabrera has established himself as chronically erratic.
Add Tiexiera at the expense of A-Rod? Oh, riiiiiiight.
It sounds like the only outside shot at Tiexiera playing here is SJ’s idea where they sign Tiexiera for the money they would have paid Cameron & Pettitte, thus taking a risk on Hughes or someone else stepping up for the last rotation spot.
They could perhaps trade Swisher for another back of the rotation pitcher if they got Tiexiera, but it sounds like the only outside shot of that whole scenario is if Pettitte & the team can’t agree to a fair pay cut.
Even then the chances are slim of Tiexiera playing here. Would be nice, but I won’t be checking the headlines every hour to see if it’s happened, that’s for sure.
If they’re going to sign a bat instead of a pitcher and an OF for a total of about $20 mil, they really should go for Tiexiera over of Manny. Seriously. One guy can actually play the field, the other can’t.
We already have a pretty good DH (Matsui) who would probably rather die than be even 1% as selfish as Manny at the expense of the team. And he can probably be a better backup OF than the foiblous Manny, all for a little more than half the price of Manny. Everyone please quit it with the Manny talk. Matsui + Tiexiera > Manny + Swisher.
Still, the final pitcher is probably a higher priority in the team’s eyes, though I prefer the Tiexiera option. But I don’t make the decisions there.
LMAO Trade ARod I almost craped my pants while laughing so hard. Drugs/alcohol w/e it is stop doing it
“Still, Cashman, just put in a bid. He might bite!”
With our rotation, the chance to bat in front of Arod, it being the Yankees, easy coast which he prefers, I really think we can underbid Anaheim and still get him.
I personally think Swisher is on track to do very well this year… he has one of the best attitudes towards the game in the league as far as I can tell.. and he is the type that will work very hard this offseason to become a better all around player… and get back on track.. I don’t see him as a hole at all.
Correction:
Matsui + Tiexiera + A-Rod + my grandma > Manny + Swisher + Hunter – A-Rod.
long term insurance coverage and taking up the blanket spot for Arod or Jeter in the future doesn’t make sense. That’s why Tex will not be in NY.
Yankee Trader,
I get that you’re little trade ideas are with the intent of making the offense and pitching better, but your scenario is completely absurd and unrealistic.
Ya, like the Angels are going to give the Yankees Lackey, Figgins, and Torii Hunter for A-Rod and his $275 million contract. Then, we’d get to participate in a nice bidding war for Teixeira that would end with us paying something in the neighborhood of $200 million over 8-10 years. I’ll take A-Rod.
We addressed pitching needs this past week: Burnett and CC.
We need a 4/5 starter to round out the rotation.
Rob NY – - 2009 The Road to Redemption
Fear not, my brother. If I passed the darned thing, you will likely do the same. Visualize success, remain 100% positive, let nothing interfere with your conquest of that last ministerial task! Seriously, if you take one of the major bar review courses I’m sure you will be fine.
Just do me one favor, take it for an old hack: don’t go into criminal law. It’s fun, sure, you feel like you are doing justice, I guess, but… how do I say this … it just doesn’t pay. Very few of us can command the big dollars defending the Michael Milkins of this world.
Med. mal, P.I., corporate, now that’s the way to go, young man. Make your folks proud and be very successful.
The Yankees and Red Sox are so intertwined that they even compete off the field.
If the Sox don’t get Teixeira and make no significant moves to their roster, their offseason will consist of acquisitions of some minor bullpen arms.
What the FO has a significant ripple effect through the clubhouse. 2008 being the exception (nothing can overcome the loss of the Wanger), the Yankee FO has always buoyed the club in the second half by bringing in help. Can you imagine what the clubhouse will feel like in Boston? Games won’t even have been played yet and they’ll be looking at the Yankees with all their shiny new toys. New stadium, new pitchers. And they lost their best friend, Manny. Ortiz said it himself, Manny probably would have been the difference in the playoffs.
Anyway, I really hope the Nats or Angels can pull off the Tex deal. It could be demoralizing for the Sox.
“All other things being equal, run prevention via pitching is more important.”
no doubt true as an ideal principle; every run you give up is 2 you have to score back to win.
but when it devolves to an ideology, to the point where people start pulling out their Win Shares calculators to somehow dismiss the value of getting players who create more runs, it’s comical & insane.
Bill James doesn’t intend such an oversimplification; he’s no ideologue. But this oversimplification is taking hold of a lot of minds – witness Pete’s adoring coverage of Gennaro’s grad school students’ conclusions.
As usual Rob, I second the Murph Dog, not to be confused with the Snoop Dog. Sound advice from a wise man.
“Anyway, I really hope the Nats or Angels can pull off the Tex deal. It could be demoralizing for the Sox.”
I’m betting on the Nationals, they seem too quite & confident.
“I’m betting on the Nationals, they seem too quite & confident.”
Yep just like the CC situation with the Yanks.
Murphydog — The sad reality is that when I get out of here I had hoped to go into criminal law, maybe work as an ADA out of school. The real goal is to (shudder the thought) serve in an elected office. I know it isn’t in vogue with most of them but I have this crazy notion that the Constitution is supposed to govern this country and the states are supposed to have some semblance of sovereignty. Different conversation for a different place though.
Brandon,
If it’s down to Boston, Nats, or Angels, Boston will win out. Nats can offer money. Angels can offer the opportunity to be in the playoffs every year. Boston can give both. The Orioles need to scrape some money together. Cal & Jim can do the rest.
A guy at work asked me this trivia question yesterday. i haven’t confirmed the answer but if true, it’s fascinating.
Since Johnny Damon’s grand-slam went flying into the night in that series that dare not speak its name and that plummeted me into a month-long depression,
Can you name the only two Yankees starters to throw a quality start in a playoff game, defined as 6 full innings, yielding 3 runs or less?
Clue: the most recent one is obvious.
CMW in ’06 against the Tigers?
I have wanted Tex all along and still do. If that makes Swish a $ 5 M utility OF/DH for a year so be it. If it makes Damon a CF a lot of the time with Melky and/or Gardner offering defense off the bench so be it. A superb defensive 1B is going to make far more of an impact than a superb defensive CF. Tex is 7 years younger than Cameron. And we must remember Damon, Matsui and Nady could all be FA after this season. That’s $ 32 M to fill one or two holes in 2010.
I’d sign Tex, let Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy compete for # 5 starter and let the OF sort itself out. A full-time in his prime All-Star 1B is a lot more valuable than upgrading your # 5 starter and CF.
That’s the obvious one Rob. He did it twice actually since 2004.
Can you name the other?
“I have wanted Tex all along and still do”
I got patience for Pujols or Lance the dance Berkman
Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption
If that’s your plan, more power to you.
I did the prosecutor thing, but for too long. Career limiting move. And when I left it I stayed in government, though not as an elected official. Just have an exit strategy, in case it turns out to be less fulfilling than you expected.
Best of luck.
Pettite ’07 against Cleveland no? Didn’t the midges lose his game?
I can still play, i mean i wreck the pitching in the Old Timer’s game. You see that 300 foot shot off of Guidry? Ya and i cant play anymore..
“So what would YOU infer from the numbers I list above.”
I’d make limited interences from a limited set of data.
From what we know it’s really run differential that determines who wins in the regular season.
So what matters is both how many runs you score and how many you give up.
In the post season what wins is dominant pitching.
So here’s the corollary to your list above. The yankees rank in team ERA
AL All of baseball
1997 – 2 3
1998 – 1 6
1999 – 2 5
2000 – 3 9
2001 – 3 7
2002 – 4 8
2003 – 3 9
2004 – 6 19
2005 – 9 22
2006 – 7 11
2007 – 7 16
2008 – 8 15
Comparing it to their runs scored data you provided earlier here’s what I would conclude and infer:
- Over the past 11 years the yankees have never made it to the world series unless they had a team ERA in the top 3 in the AL.
- The variation in their team ERA while making the world series was less than their variation in runs scored (see divergence in 2000,2001)
- While the yankees continued to score at prodigious rates after 2003 their pitching fell off dramatically. In turn they not only stopped winning world series, they became a dramatically worse team in the playoffs and started losing in the early rounds of the playoffs on a regular basis.
That’s what I’d infer from the teams runs scored and runs allowed.
Career limiting how? I just look at corporate law or PI practice and it seems so boring to me. Plus you get the fun stigma of being called an ambulance chaser with the latter. Although the TV lawyers like “Victim of asbestos? Slip and fall? Call Jim Sokolov” probably make a ton of money.
Maybe i’ll win the lottery lol Then I could do what I want to do AND afford to go to Yankee games!
Cameron would be a free agent too, that’s the best argument for getting Tex and making Nady hit the bench
that is a false trivia question. The person asking it obviously doesn’t understand that if a pitcher goes six innings and give s up 2 ER and then gives up 2 ER in the 7th it is still a quality start. You don’t take away the qwuality start because he lasted later into thee game.
Tehrefore Wang (2x), Shawn Chacon, Mussina and Pettite have quality post-season starts in the 2005-07 seasons.
Once the Pettitte and Cameron deals go through, the Yanks will go after Texiera. I know the Yankees are working under a “budget” but im sure Hank will gladly break that if Mark wants us.
Best Young Players in Baseball by Age: Part Three (21- and 20-Year Olds)
By Rich Lederer
8. Austin Jackson | NYY | CF
A/A+/AAA | 555 PA | .304/.370/.476 | OPS .846
Jackson is interesting in that he hit .260/.336/.374 in the Sally League (A) and .345/.398/.566 in the Florida State League (High-A). An outstanding athlete, he can run, hit for power, and should be able to handle the defensive demands of center field at the big league level.
Sorry my last post came up formatted strangely. The two columns of numbers – the first is where the yanks ranked in team era in the AL. The second was where they ranked in team era in all of baseball.
“A superb defensive 1B is going to make far more of an impact than a superb defensive CF.”
This is patently not true. There’s absolutely no comparison between the two positions.
CF is a much more valuable defensive position. After SS it’s the most difficult position to play. 1b is the least valuable defensive position on average.
“Bill James doesn’t intend such an oversimplification; he’s no ideologue. But this oversimplification is taking hold of a lot of minds – witness Pete’s adoring coverage of Gennaro’s grad school students’ conclusions.”
So the people who want to slug their way to the World Series have nothing to learn from Gennaro or James
My point I guess is that you can oversimplify in either direction, and a team can favor power over run prevention and vice versa. To each his own of course.
But when making an incremental improvement via Tex versa AJ Burnett, you have to consider where the Yankees’ dollars are already spent. They are heavily invested in Cano, Posada and Matsui, who should be an awesome arsenal. At least as to Cano and Posada the Yanks are in to those two for multi-years and big bucks and they have to have comebacks in 2009 that live up to their salaries. Add in the cost of A-Rod’s baseline offense – - can they really justify even more bucks on offense at the expense of beefing up pitching in the AL East? I think that is another reason arguing against acquiring Tex at an unreasonable salary/at all costs.
“Career limiting how?”
Rob NY:
I’m an old former prosecutor. Don’t mind me.
I just don’t hear too many people calling my P.I. or Med Mal friends anything, let alone “ambulance chaser” when I am riding in their Audis, Porsches and Mercedes. They are very, very quiet cars
“I would say the most interesting part of this offseason is my current mindset…
It’s incredible to be able to think, “well, if (insert pitchers name here) gets injured, we could always just call up Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Mitre (later on in the year), convert Coke back to a starter, Give someone like McCallister a chance, maybe Kontos, or even maybe Cox…
… just saying….”
Oh do I hear you! The most wonderful part of this offseason, regarding my current mindset, is that the two pitchers I wanted most are both in pinstripes! To me anything from this point on is gravy. (Except if for some strange and unthinkable reason we were to end up with Derek Lowe – that would cause the gravy to turn into eventual indigestion…)
Seriously I have really always admired Brian Cashman on every level, and for so many reasons. He has now attained hero status in my eyes. On ESPN I keep hearing that the Yankees got the “two best free-agent pitchers on the market.”
Just wow.
bru nice breakdown but before he hits the majors I want his OBP to be atleast .350 – 370 before he is brought up, and his OPS needs to be 750 +.
Anyway for those of you interested. I found Robi Cano, he’s playing for Estrellas de Oriente (yes same team Alex use to play for)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAayPFfFLKo
MY TAKE ON THINGS
PITCHING – Assuming we end up with a VERY serviceable #4 pitcher in Pettitte or Sheets (preferably Andy), we’re going to have the best overall pitching staff in the majors when factoring in the 3 major facets of starting rotation, bullpen, and organizational depth. In all areas, we are STACKED with quality arms … with more than a few capable of throwing a 95+ MPH fastball on a normal basis.
With a rotation guaranteed to include Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, and Chamberlain, you have 4 guys who can be completely dominant on any given day. Yes, each one will get slammed occasionally, and yes, AT LEAST one of those guys will be on the disabled list next year … but what team doesn’t encounter these issues?
The bullpen is extremely well-balanced and Girardi did a fantastic job of managing next year … it was probably his single greatest strength. We have a ton of young guns that are already proving themselves (Bruney, Veras, Coke), a fairly dependable veteran LHP who can still throw hard in Marte, and of course, the greatest closer in the history of baseball – who is coming off one of his finest statistical seasons ever – Mariano Rivera. I’m pretty sure we’ll be okay when we have a lead going into the 8th or 9th inning when you have that guy on your team.
Our organizational depth rounds out the two main components very nicely. Due to Joba’s inning limit and the inevitablity of some of your starters going on the disabled list this year, the Yankees (and every other team in baseball) are going to need their #6, #7, and possibly #8 starters. Future ace in waiting Phil Hughes will get some chances to develop in the bigs this year again while stilling mainly honing his stuff in AAA, a humbled Ian Kennedy can get a chance to show off the improvements he’s made, and Aceves will make a fine longman in the rotation who might develop into something more. Combine that with a glut of other talent which will become members of the 25 man roster as early as in ST or years down the line like Mark Melancon, Andrew Brackman and Dellin Betances, and you see that we are locked and loaded in every conceivable way.
HITTING – I do not see us getting Teixeria, or even Adam Dunn for that matter (though I would like to see it happen). I think Cameron-Cabrera deal will eventually happen, and it will net us a dependable back-end of the lineup hitter who will not make us a defensively worse team (Cameron is a golden glover, and Cabrera was very well-rounded defensively, a bit unappreciated there IMO). Not to mention, we’d only have Cameron for a year, conveniently letting us slide a by then major league ready Austin Jackson in there for 2010. So with that said, here is what my opening day lineup guess is:
1. Johnny Damon – LF
2. Derek Jeter – SS
3. Xavier Nady – RF
4. Alex Rodriguez – 3B
5. Hidek Matsui – DH
6. Jorge Posada – C
7. Robinson Cano – 2B
8. Nick Swisher – 1B
9. Mike Cameron – CF
Out of that group, I think it is fair to expect about career average-ish years from the following players: Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Xavier Nady, Nick Swisher, and Mike Cameron. Those guys have some pretty good numbers on the back of their baseball cards for the most part … I’d say for those players, they will do sufficiently relevant to where they’ll be slotted in the lineup.
The three “wildcard” players in my eyes are Jorge Posada, Hideki Matsui, and Robinson Cano. Here is how I evaluate each one.
Posada: While coming off a major shoulder surgery and is getting old, he has been one of the best offensive catchers in our era, usually putting up numbers worthy of a #5 or #6 in a contending team’s lineup. However, he is coming off major shoulder surgery and is getting old. Interestingly enough, one of his best, if not *the* best year in his career, wasn’t so long ago in 2007. He should definitely still be a presence in the lineup, and just as importantly in the clubhouse where he is one of the leaders of the team. The big questions are 1. can he continue to be a catcher for hopefully 100 games? 2. Where do you put him when he’s not your catcher, and what happens if he CAN’T catch? Because, y’know, he is coming off a major shoulder surgery and is getting old
Matsui: Another guy coming over major surgery and getting old. Within the past year or so, he’s had 2 knee surgeries – one on each knee if I’m not mistaken. He’ll be 35 by the middle of the season. If he can stay healthy and put up his normal full season numbers, this team will be in great shape. If he cannot stay healthy and either goes on the DL or simply mediocre, the Yankees will have a significant offensive gap.
Robinson Cano: The biggest X factor on the team. He had an awful season last year, and was a complete disappointment. However, when he finally got benched and they changed his stance, he looked more the evolution of his 2006 and 2007 seasons that everyone had expected to see. He’s doing well as a DH in the winter leagues now as Kevin Long has continued to watch over him and ensure his progress. If Cano has another 2008 type season, he’s done with the team. If he can live up to his potential, he will be a superstar and a permanent answer to who will bat 3rd in the lineup for years to come and completely change the way this lineup looks. Even if he ends up somewhere in between, he’ll still be a very good player.
Our bench is going to be good enough, and we’ll probably snag some cheap utility IF player for the bench at some point. We also usually have at least one player who is getting paid $10 million or more sitting on the bench every game.
Defensively the Yankees are mediocre, but we should be good enough that its not horrendous. Jeter actually had a statistically average defensive season in ’08 from what I’ve read, which is really the most you could ever hope for, and if Cano can stay focused, he’s shown flashes of being a very good defensive player. Swisher will be a nice defensive upgrade. Outfield has probably improved to being average with Abreu gone. All in all, its not going to cost us TOO many games (I hope).
Overall, I’d say we have a fairly high risk / high reward team. We could be another 3rd place team in the AL East if some of our major components don’t live up to realistic expectations, or we could be a serious World Series contender if everything clicks. Either way, I’ll be watching every damn game they.
That’s my ramble, thanks for reading, share your thought on why I’m wrong or right.
lol. You can find all kinds of neat stuff at MLBTR. Hideki Okajima’s going to run the Honolulu Marathon. Wonder if the ropes on his neck will slow him down? And Chad Moeller signed with the Nats. And that Peter Schmuck guy I mentioned the other day is a writer for the Baltimore Sun.
CB —
I didn’t say 1B was harder to play than CF. But a 1B handles the ball five-to-ten times more than a CF. Hell I’ve seen games where the CF didn’t make a single play. Ever seen a game where the 1B didn’t? That’s a significant impact. Just because CF is a more valuable position doesn’t mean it has greater potential impact.
1B is a very underrated position defensively because an outstanding 1B (Mattingly, K. Hernandez) improves your defense at 2B, SS, 3B. Yankee fans learned that when they went from Tino to the lummox.
P.S. 3B and C are much harder than CF.
Also I need to correct myselfon that trivia question. Upon further research you DO lose a quality start if you keep pitching and end up giving up a 4th earned run.
So six innings, 3 ER, 4.50 ERA is a quality start. A comlpete game with 4 ER, 4.00 ERA and not taxing the bullpen isn’t.
That makes QS a stupid stat.
The only stat that matters is the ‘W’ column…
CB, SJ, with Damon and Matsui’s contracts expiring as well as Cameron’s next year (assuming they end up trading for him), apart from Holliday, who do you think fills those gaps?
Mel, can you, maybe, drop a banana peel in front of Okajima while he runs by you?
Hey Brandon, weren’t you also an AJ advocate? And mel, were you also? I saw someone congratulating you last night saying you had been pulling for him right along but I didn’t remember if you wanted AJ, did not, or were neutral.
i pray they dont bring pettite back. the bible is a terrible influence in the locker room…
“But a 1B handles the ball five-to-ten times more than a CF.”
Your point on the number of chances is well taken and I apologize for misunderstanding your post.
But I will also say this – you could also easily say that the chances a 1b gets are 5-10 easier than the chances a CF gets. You could also argue that the leverage of the chances a CF gets is much, much greater.
A CF misplays a ball – it’s a triple. A 1b does and he just picks up the bobble and runs faster to the bag. We see this all of the time.
The number of chances don’t make up for the difference in the difficulty of the position.
Ultimately what matters is the number of runs each player saves defensively.
The variance in performance at first base is much greater than the variance in CF.
So it’s possible for a 1b to save 20 runs relative to his peers while that’s nearly impossible in CF because the average CF is so good defensively at baseline.
Willie Bloomquist anybody ?
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.co....._id=217100
Mel
correction: Moeller signed with the O’s.
“Hey Brandon, weren’t you also an AJ advocate? And mel, were you also? I saw someone congratulating you last night saying you had been pulling for him right along but I didn’t remember if you wanted AJ, did not, or were neutral.”
Must have been another Brandon. I warmed up after CB posted how Holladay mentored him into learning how to pitch and stay healthy, I’m not ecstatic but
CC
Wang
AJ
TBA
Joba
Makes me giddy if they all stay healthy.
“Willie Bloomquist anybody ?”
NO…no pop at all and he was still out by 20 feet (refering the caught stealing last year)!!
No, you’re right 86. I inadvertently neglected the qualifiers that it was, at least 6 innings or more, and Rob, also, a game in which the Yankees won, thus excluding the Midges’ game.
The second pitcher, 86, you’re also correct, being one Shawn Chacon.
It baffled me for an hour. I’d completely forgotten about that brilliant start of Chac’s against the Angels.
(Mussina, I don’t believe, pitched one.)
******************************************************
I don’t dispute the point you make about Runs Allowed, CB.
I concede pitching is the more important of the two variables and certainly explains the Yankees first-round exits between 2005-7, thus my trivia question.
Here’s where we differ.
When you’re in the Division where you only can hope to match your two closest rivals in RA because they numbered 4th (Sux, 2008) and 2nd (Rays, 2008) in the AL in RAs (and a third divisional rival was 1st [the Jays] besides); when those two closest rivals’ rotations probably will equal their successes next year, if not exceed it because they stand to add still more high-ceiling fire-ballers; and only two of you, at most, can qualify for the playoffs; well, then, under these conditions, the comparative importance of the RS variable increases and what will separate the three is their lineups.
Factor in too that the Yankees’ RS total last year– 7th in the league, their lowest finish in 11 years– and it only highlights the deficiency.
In sum, I assume that with AJ and CC, the Yankees’ rotations are the equal of the Rays and Sux, not better, certainly not dramatically better. Ergo, their lineups will determine which of three will win the division.
The Red Sox’s lineup is already substantially better than the Yankees. That gap will increase if they sign Teixeira.
Is the Rays’ lineup better? Hmmn, I don’t know. If they upgrade RF and obtain Giambi or Abreu to DH, it could match the Yankees.
In fact, the Yankees lineup is only better than the Rays if Posada and Matsui produce like they did in 2007. Something
I wouldn’t want to bet the team’s fate on. They’re both old men and recovering from injuries.
This team needs another bat, and desperately.
Tom,
Wouldn’t work. As you can see, he looks like he stepping on a banana peel with every pitch he throws.
Maybe I can hand him a “special” cup at one of the feed stations so he can test positive for a banned substance.
Just read that Wood went to the Injuns for two years.
Brandon,
change your handle. Cashman ruled out going after Sheets.
“Willie Bloomquist anybody ?”
All he has is the eye.
“change your handle. Cashman ruled out going after Sheets. ”
Get me the quote.
Ed – CC and AJ are now Yanks!! Aj better stays healthy!!!
December 13th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Moeller signed with the O’s.
————————————————————
Moeller will come back to bite the Yankees. He will crush Yankee pitching, especially the soft underbelly of the team, the late innings bullpen.
“Ben Sheets is a walking disabled list.” – Brian Cashman 12/12
They have **ruled out** going after oft-injured Ben Sheets, someone familiar with their plans said, because of too many **red flags**. Instead, they will await a decision from Andy Pettitte.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss
Brandon, then I gave you unearned kudos! Last night I said that if Cashman was Santa, you and I were his right-hand elves since we both had wanted CC and AJ and were going to also be pretty content if Cameron came around.
I know I wasn’t the only one who was pulling for both CC and AJ, but I can’t remember the other non-stop AJ voices here.
Whoever you are -
WOOHOO FOR US!
Ed,
Thanks for catching that. Yes, a minor league deal with the O’s.
trisha,
You must live in a coffin, girl. I had to stop advocating for AJ because people were surely getting sick of it. High risk, high reward for sure. Lots of people crossed lines yesterday. People who didn’t want AJ here are warming up to him and many, many Atlanta fans are now saying they didn’t want him anyway. Yeah, sure, whatever.
Wren (Atlanta GM?) was very gracious in defeat saying they thought they had AJ, but in the end it was about location. I’m very impressed with Atlanta, they went toe to toe with the Yankees, which many teams aren’t willing to do. SJ mentioned earlier in the thread that the Atlanta organization is very disappointed in losing out on AJ. They’ll probably have to revisit the Peavy talks to get an ace now and as we know, trading for an ace costs you twice.
But yes, I was very high on AJ for a long, long time. When someone wants to come here, I mean really come here, as AJ let it be known before the process even started that earned bonus points for me.
GB,
Yep. he knows too many of our secrets.
It was in the Newsday article last night by Kat and Davidoff. It said the Yanks had dropped their pursuit of Sheets over red flags.
“Moeller signed with the O’s.”
This is one I feel really bad about but I guess there wasn’t much the Yankees could do. I wish Chad the best and hope he ends up getting a lot of playing time. I truly think he was top notch as a player and a person.
Ed – CC and AJ are now Yanks!! Aj better stays healthy!!!
December 13th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
GB,
Yep. he knows too many of our secrets.
————————————————————
luckily, Farnsworth took the secrets of giving up late inning homers with him. He’s a thief.
GB7,
That was a joke, right? If so, very well done. Very subtle.
I said I could deal w/ AJ I didn’t say I wanted him. Eh..same thing I’m surprisingly calm. As for the quote, Ed I told you get me a quote w/ Cashman sasying he doesn’t want Sheets, sorry the handle lives on.
“well, then, under these conditions, the comparative importance of the RS variable increases and what will separate the three is their lineups.”
Well this is an entirely different point. Now you are making a variance argument. Essentially you are saying that given the high level of performance of the sox and rays pitching staff’s that parameter is fixed at a ceiling that can’t be surpassed. In turn only marginal advantage can be returned.
Offense on the other hand can vary much more.
A couple of things on this as it’s a good point.
This argument only holds validity if the yankees have a staff that is somewhat comparable to that of the rays and sox. Only then can the variance in offense really make a difference. Before these two moves the yankees staff was nowhere near the Sox or Rays. Now I’d say they are all roughly even – slight edge to the yanks perhaps as CC is simply the best pitcher in the division now (he’s a much better regular season pitcher than beckett…).
The Rays scored very, very few runs last year – far fewer than the sox but still won the division and beat them in the playoffs.
That directly flies in the face of the variance argument.
All variance arguments are somewhat suspect when he possible parameters have different degrees of freedom. There is no cap to how many runs a team could potentially score. However, there’s no way to give up less than 0 runs.
So yes offense can vary more. But that also implicitly assumes a near unlimited budget.
Finally the huge factor that you are completely ignoring – bull pens.
This is an enormous pitching advantage the yanks have over the sox and rays.
The sox starters don’t go very deep into games. So their bull pen throws a large proportion of that teams innings. Last year I believe it was around 33-35%.
The sox pen was bad last year and they haven’t improved it much this year.
The rays pen is their huge achilles heal as we saw in the playoffs.
So while the starting staffs may be equal you can argue that the yankees now have a considerable advantage in overall pitching due to the combined strength of their pen and staff. In particular, they have the best starting pitcher, best closer and best set up man/options in the division.
It’s the large variance performance over that 30-35% of innings the pens will throw that could allow the yankees to move past the sox and the rays in terms of run prevention, thus negating the impact of hitting differentials.
I want three guys if possible:
Andy
Ty Wigginton
Joey Gathright– will cost us nothing
say no to Cameron– unless they are willing to take a certain lefty minor leaguer
Sheets should have preemptive Tommy John surgey…..
“It was in the Newsday article last night by Kat and Davidoff. It said the Yanks had dropped their pursuit of Sheets over red flags.”
Not enough evidence. It stays.
I didn’t realize Aj led the league in k’s last year. I could see why we wanted him. Oh and by the way, the youth movement is still happenning, especially in the starting rotation. If they don’t sign Andy, the oldest starter is 32.
BTW this would piss even the sanest person
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....6152931078
Not 1, not 2 not even 3 , 5 times ?
Okay, here’s the ultimate trivia contest.
Let’s make a list of all the Yankee pitchers (including prospects!) that have had TJ surgery.
-MO
-AJ
-Brackman
You didn’t like my quote Brandon =(
someone else produced the actual quote before I even told you where it is. Now change.
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
GB7,
That was a joke, right? If so, very well done. Very subtle.
————————————————————
Yeah…I was just bored. Was trying to come up with a sensible, completely outragious, but unlikely trade scenerio.
GB7,
We’re talking about the Moeller/underbelly thingy right? Yes, very nice.
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Okay, here’s the ultimate trivia contest.
Let’s make a list of all the Yankee pitchers (including prospects!) that have had TJ surgery.
-MO
-AJ
-Brackman
————————————————————
Wouldn’t a complete list of those that haven’t, be more challenging?
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
GB7,
We’re talking about the Moeller/underbelly thingy right? Yes, very nice.
————————————————————
Yes, ma’am.
add sanchez to your TJ list
haha, gb7
-Mo
-AJ
-Brackman
-Sanchez
-Melancon
Sanchez? Cox?
Rob, I took NY and MA together. Study for NY (take Barbri, they will walk you through this) and then take MA at the same time. The law is similar enough that if you know NY law cold, you’ll get enough MA law correct to pass both. Ditto to the above posters on the MBE thing. I haven’t taken NJ, but one of my classmates took NY and NJ at the same time. She asked the barbri rep how to prepare for the NJ bar after taking the NY bar the day before. The rep told her to have a cocktail.
NY is by far the hardest of the three. They don’t call it Passachusetts for nothing, either. NJ apparently isn’t that hard either.
I also went to law school in Boston. Suffolk grads have a great network here, and not such a great presence in New York. You should think about staying here in Boston for a few years to build up your credentials before going to the city. You’ll probably get better opportunities out of the gate.
Mel,
add Sergio Mitre, the forgotten FA that the Yanks first signed to the TJS list.
Melancon, Sanchez and Garcia have all also had TJ. So has Cox more or less and Horne and Pendleton.
-Mo
-AJ
-Brackman
-Sanchez
-Melancon
-Cox
-Mitre
-Pavano
Now if only this fool would have a decent OBP % he’d be worth a look, and the rise in strike outs doesn’t help.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....5072659838
“You must live in a coffin, girl.”
Sometimes is sure feels that way! One of the real downsides of being in charge of an office is that it takes time away from every other part of your life. It is what it is, but I sometimes wish (probably not really) that I had opted for a job that when 4:30 rolled around, I could stop typing and walk out the door with a clear head. I always say that in my next life, I am going to scoop ice cream at Baskin Robbins!
“But yes, I was very high on AJ for a long, long time. When someone wants to come here, I mean really come here, as AJ let it be known before the process even started that earned bonus points for me.”
Because I am not around here as often as you and some others, it may not have been noted as much, but I have been right there with you regarding AJ. And isn’t it funny, but mine also started when I started hearing the rumors last season that AJ really wanted to be a Yankee. And then I never let go.
It is without a glimmer of a doubt (you know the gut feelings I get that some “stuck in the box” posters like to goof on?) that Burnett is going to kick ass and take numbers when he pitches for us.
I am having such a hard time containing my excitement! There is one guy at work whose kids are Yankee fans but he himself is a Sux fan, and he and I are really great friends so can crack on each other and be okay about it – well we were both at the same meeting yesterday and all he kept mouthing was “You guys got CC” and he kept shaking his head. As a Sux fan, he really is upset about that. When I go into work Monday, I can wander down the hall and have a long conversation with him about also getting Burnett, and the implications, and get my fill of at least talking about it rationally with someone else – he’ll give me his best shot on what he thinks possible pitfalls might be when Yankee things happen, and I do the same with him and the Sux – and also he’ll give me every bit of due when it is a bombshell happening, such as I believe both CC and AJ to be. But other than him, I truly have nobody around here to debrief with in that manner. So I sometimes feel like I am going to explode with fandom because I have nowhere to go with it!!!!
I can’t imagine how it must be for you and Nick and Pat M and a few other farther-away fans, unless you feel you manage to get your fill by interacting here.
Tommy John…
Once a yankee…always a Yankee.
Brandon,
Gathright could worth a look at too:
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....8263372248
Phil
December 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Melancon, Sanchez and Garcia have all also had TJ. So has Cox more or less and Horne and Pendleton.
————————————————————
More or less? That sounds like “a little pregnant”.
Gathright could play in Yankee Stadium:
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....6082869420
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_John_surgery
Here’s a list.
Xavier Nady
Dave Eiland (twice)
playing in Kauffman Stadium’s center field isn’t easy:
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....6273015703
With Cox, who has pitched at times like he was a little pregnant, there was some debate over whether it was ligament replacement or ligament repair surgery. I think it was finally announced that it was TJ.
Here’s a question. Do the Yanks try to take advantage of the closer shortage on the West Coast and steal useful players for some of the excess bullpenners that NYY has in the system? If so, for whom?
“Gathright could play in Yankee Stadium:”
Correction he can jump in Yankee Stadium he still can’t hit.
-Tommy John
-Mo
-AJ
-Brackman
-Sanchez
-Melancon
-Cox
-Mitre
-Pavano
-Garcia
-Dotel
-Tom Gordon
-Corey Lidle
-Victor Zambrano
-Jaret Wright
-The Gambler
“Correction he can jump in Yankee Stadium he still can’t hit.”
LOL true that. but his OBP is a bit better than Taveras. lol
Philadephia 76ers have just fired Maurice Cheeks.
Brandon (SHOW SHEETS THE MONEEEEEY !, CC & AJ are Yankees!)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
December 13th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
“Gathright could play in Yankee Stadium:”
Correction he can jump in Yankee Stadium he still can’t hit.
————————————————————
He could possibly JUMP OVER Yankee stadium.
Mel,
so far the only TJS survivour, and could still dominate is Mo. though its still too early to tell for the prospects.
GB7,
Lots of firings this season with more guys still on the hot seat.
Before this season, any team could be any team on any given night. The Clippers could shock the Spurs. Anything could happen. But this season you’ve got the Celtics, Cavs, and Lakers. Then there’s everyone else. And they’re all losing to each other.
The coaching carousel is still going. The question is who fills those spots? They’ve already tried the Iavaronni’s and other such assistants. Terry Porter’s doing god knows what, but that’s not necessarily his fault. Steve Kerr has almost completely dismantled that dynamic Suns team. I think Nash and Amare are the only guys left.
I don’t think we’ll see Bob Knight and traditionally college coaches haven’t fared well in the pros.
Maybe Van Gundy, Marc Jackson, and that other guy who was rumored to have gotten that Chicago job will be next in line.
December 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
-Tommy John-Mo-AJ-Brackman-Sanchez-Melancon-Cox-Mitre-Pavano
-Garcia-Dotel-Tom Gordon-Corey Lidle-Victor Zambrano
-Jaret Wright-The Gambler
————————————————————
Everytime I see the name, “The Gambler”, I don’t think of Kenny Rogers (either one of them).
I think of two others – James Garner (Bret Maverick), but mainly, Ron Guidry. Always thought he looked like a riverboat gambler.
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
GB7,
Lots of firings this season with more guys still on the hot seat.
Before this season, any team could be any team on any given night. The Clippers could shock the Spurs. Anything could happen. But this season you’ve got the Celtics, Cavs, and Lakers. Then there’s everyone else. And they’re all losing to each other.
————————————————————
Yep…coaches are going down like….nah….this is a family site….
I just looked at that wikipedia TJS list. someone is really making a lot of money!
I don’t everyone’s excitement over Burnett. He’s not Pavano, but the warning signs are there. He’s been injured frequently, and his only good years are contract years.
Scouts drool over him because he has great raw stuff and K’s a lot of guys. That’s great in fantasy, but on the field he’s just an OK pitcher. He didn’t even have a great year this season!! He was great against the Yanks, but not so hot against everyone else — he pitched to a 4 ERA overall.
Finally, I don’t think he’s got any heart. He doesn’t seem to want the ball in a big game. He’s another Boras client like A Rod who wants to make the big money but doesn’t want the responsibility that comes with it. Great, I can’t wait to see him start a key playoff game on the road.
I’m not usually the chicken little type, but it’s frustrating that Cashman (who I usually support) seems to be making the same mistake over again. I thought he’d learned his lesson with Wright, Pavano, etc.
I hope AJ proves me wrong. But I don’t like this at all.
“Philadephia 76ers have just fired Maurice Cheeks.”
Lawrence Frank must have nude pics of Thorn.
I know he’s not a strong hitter but I’d love to put Gathright on out bench.
GB7,
I just read a little about Kenny Rogers background. Amazing, he was a converted SS very late in high school. Told his future wife that he wanted to play for 3 years so he could get pension. And then be a farmer. Was in the Rangers minor league system for 7 years before reaching the majors. I was in elementary school when he first got into baseball, and he’s still pitching.
we need news.
Mel, I was 2 when Rodgers was drafted.
ML,
You have every reason to be concerned about AJ. But the good thing about CC & AJ coming in together is that there won’t be the pressure to be the man on either one of them. Plus there’s Wang & Joba. How can there not be a winning vibe in that clubhouse.
The best thing to do is to look at the good side because you can’t do anything about the signing.
BTW, AJ’s agent is Derek Braunecker. And he chose the Yankees because of location. Atlanta and the Yankees had very similar offers on the table.
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
GB7,
I just read a little about Kenny Rogers background. Amazing, he was a converted SS very late in high school. Told his future wife that he wanted to play for 3 years so he could get pension. And then be a farmer. Was in the Rangers minor league system for 7 years before reaching the majors. I was in elementary school when he first got into baseball, and he’s still pitching.
————————————————————
Yeah, Rogers was here in Savannah, but was quite a high schooler in Florida. Savannah’s other big name baseball player was Kenny Harrelson. Rogers has always had talent, but, he’s a little like Randy Johnson in attitude. I think that it’s the left side of his brain. He’s been around forever. He’s got a great pickoff move, too….better than Pettitte’s.
Yankee Stadium = Rehab House for the TJS Particpants!
**Chris Capuano**, anyone? Cashman wanted him last year before he went on a TJS but good thing the trade didn’t go through..Capuano could be our #4 starter if Pettitte doesn’t come back.
Rogers was ***born*** here in Savannah
Rogers still stunk as a Yankee.
OT for Rob NY –
Rob NY, if you’re still around. I was just skimming the posts and noticed the law talk. So I thought I’d add my two cents. When people tell you that taking the bar exam was probably the singular-most stressful and difficult thing that has happened in their lives (in terms of events of which they have had control) believe them. That said, my understanding is that the Mass bar exam is one of the easier ones to pass. (Of course there is no standardization across states!) When I went to law school there was some caveat out there that if you passed your own state’s bar, if you practiced for at least 5 years you would be grandfathered in for some portion of the exam – maybe the multistate and then you’d only have to take another state’s “state” portion? I forget the exact rule, but it’s something like that.
Next, I think if you can marry your financial expectations with the kind of law you would really like to practice and have it be a good marriage, you are home free. For example, making a lot of money never entered into my life-design, so going into civil rights/employment law for a public agency worked well for me. It satisfied who I really want to be, and I don’t make a heck of a lot of money! When I went to law school, my real desire was to be a government prosecutor (I could never be a criminal defense attorney – couldn’t try to contort truth ever just to win a case); but life events happened and I got turned in another direction.
I guess my point is that if you go after the money but your heart isn’t in it, you might end up being a wealthy yet “always searching for more happiness” person (though I guess there may be some individuals in life who are so shallow that having lots of cash is the ends AND the means…) If you’re someone who aspires to have great wealth and also loves the high-power corporate world, I guess you can have it all!
Anyway, much luck when you take the bar. Devote your entire life at that time to studying your butt off and pretend there is not life outside of studying for the bar – and you’ll make it just fine.
mel
December 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
ML,
You have every reason to be concerned about AJ. But the good thing about CC & AJ coming in together is that there won’t be the pressure to be the man on either one of them. Plus there’s Wang & Joba. How can there not be a winning vibe in that clubhouse.
The best thing to do is to look at the good side because you can’t do anything about the signing.
BTW, AJ’s agent is Derek Braunecker. And he chose the Yankees because of location. Atlanta and the Yankees had very similar offers on the table.
————————————————————
With having Hughes for later in the season and Aceves on the team, there is no reason for NYY to overwork Sabathia, Pettitte or Burnett. They can skip a couple or 3 styarts over the year, and keep them healthy and strong for the stretch run and, hopefully, the post season.
mel,
I appreciate you trying to give me some reasons for optimism, but I don’t see it. It’s a not a good sign that we have to say “well we have CC too so the pressure won’t be ALL on AJ”. In NY, there’s always pressure. If Burnett pitches badly, esp. at the start, fans are going to boo. We’re not going to say “well, we have CC so let’s ease up on AJ.”
He may not be with Boras, but he’s a Boras-type guy.
Yeah, I get the “look on the bright side” advice, but if I’m not going to get upset when the Yanks make a bad move then why be a fan??
I thought this would be of interest….
*Even though the Yankees signed another Class A free agent pitcher today, A.J. Burnett, according to what Brewers assistant general manager Gord Ash told me at the winter meetings, the Brewers still get New York’s first-round pick next June for losing CC Sabathia*.
Ash told me that Class A rankings determine how compensation draft picks are lined up. Sabathia was the top-ranked Class A pitcher on the market, so Ash said the Brewers would get New York’s first-round pick next June no matter who else the Yankees signed.
I’m assuming therefore that Toronto will get the Yankees’ second-round pick next June as compensation for losing Burnett. Tough luck for the Blue Jays (New York has another first-round pick but it’s protected because it is compensation for not signing its 2008 first-rounder).
Both teams will get a sandwich pick between the first and second round as well.
*Now, the Brewers better really hope that the Yankees don’t sign free agent Ben Sheets. Burnett has a higher Class A ranking (89.729) than Sheets (79.038), so if New York signs Sheets, the Brewers would only get their third-round pick next June, as well as the sandwich pick.
An interesting system, huh?
It’s my understanding that Sheets is more likely to sign with the Texas Rangers, who are being encouraged by new pitching coach Mike Maddux, the former Brewers’ pitching coach*.
Ed – CC is a Yankee!
December 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Yankee Stadium = Rehab House for the TJS Particpants!
Chris Capuano, anyone? Cashman wanted him last year before he went on a TJS but good thing the trade didn’t go through..Capuano could be our #4 starter if Pettitte doesn’t come back.
————————————————————
Capuano is still trying to recover from his 2nd ligament transplant surgery. No way would I try him. He was lucky one season, but, nothing special.
If the Yankees were to sign Teixeira (highly unlikely), the Angels would get the Yankee’s #1.
ML,
Oops. Sorry, shouldn’t have even said anything.
But don’t worry yourself about AJ. He’ll be fine. And he’ll be good. Better than good. As a Yankee fan, I hope you’ll be happy on days he gets the win.
Maybe Andy is a handshake agreement done deal waiting to see how the Cameron thing shakes out so they don’t need to take someone off the 40 man if they are going to be removing 2 (Melky + pitcher) to get Cameron?
ML,
Sorry. That sounded snippy. I take back that last post.
Just focus on CC/AJ/Wang/Pettitte/Joba. That should help calm any nerves.
ML
December 13th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
mel,
I appreciate you trying to give me some reasons for optimism, but I don’t see it. It’s a not a good sign that we have to say “well we have CC too so the pressure won’t be ALL on AJ”. In NY, there’s always pressure. If Burnett pitches badly, esp. at the start, fans are going to boo. We’re not going to say “well, we have CC so let’s ease up on AJ.”
He may not be with Boras, but he’s a Boras-type guy.
Yeah, I get the “look on the bright side” advice, but if I’m not going to get upset when the Yanks make a bad move then why be a fan??
————————————————————
You’re taking what some anonymous source said that he was told about what Burnett said, too seriously. If Burnett said that, in what context and situation was it said? Take a big slug of 12 Star Metaxa and calm down.
Mel,
No worries. I appreciate your optimism. Just not sure I share it. If AJ wins though, I will absolutely be thrilled. I’m definitely not the type to root against him just so I can be right.
What is it, 62 days til pitchers and catchers??
Go for the jugular and pull the trigger for Teixeira. Boras always waits until he’s certain the Yankees are not players for his clients.
GreenBeret7,
Sorry, but that doesn’t make sense. As long as they are healthy, Sabathia and Burnett are taking their turns in the rotation. No way will they skip them to give Hughes, Aceves or anyone else a spot start.
Who is batting 3rd?
Who is protecting Alex?
Nady Swisher Abreu??
Kaballah?
Who is protecting Alex?
Kabbalah is the obvious and correct answer
Ho Hum, board alreay lol.
No sheets and thats ok. For me it’s Andy or stay young as the big three will carry us and Joba and whoever will be fine if we hit.
So that said, I’m waiting on the bat to be added.
With the Angels at 8 years on Tex I would expect the cute little Red Sockies to at least get there if not 9.
We have to get to 9 although I am leary of that many years as 10 will probably be the final number someone gets to if they want him that bad. Obviously the market is there for him and if that many teams want him he must be something good.
So, looking at what we need, one more bat, and where we will be after this year on payroll, I think we should make the move.
As far as long term goes, we need to look beyond this year and next for payroll relief and plan our building blocks around Tex and some of the young kids.
Defer some of his salary next year and fit him in to what could be one of the best Yankee teams of our generation.
December 13th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
GreenBeret7,
Sorry, but that doesn’t make sense. As long as they are healthy, Sabathia and Burnett are taking their turns in the rotation. No way will they skip them to give Hughes, Aceves or anyone else a spot start.
————————————————————
Actually, it makes all of the sense in the world. It keeps the starters fresh, and it helps build up the innnings for Hughes and Aceves, which needs to happen to have them available for a full 2010 season. Why run your big horses into the ground when you can rest them against weaker teams a couple of times?
Thread transfer:
Ho Hum, board alreay lol.
No sheets and thats ok. For me it’s Andy or stay young as the big three will carry us and Joba and whoever will be fine if we hit.
So that said, I’m waiting on the bat to be added.
With the Angels at 8 years on Tex I would expect the cute little Red Sockies to at least get there if not 9.
We have to get to 9 although I am leary of that many years as 10 will probably be the final number someone gets to if they want him that bad. Obviously the market is there for him and if that many teams want him he must be something good.
So, looking at what we need, one more bat, and where we will be after this year on payroll, I think we should make the move.
As far as long term goes, we need to look beyond this year and next for payroll relief and plan our building blocks around Tex and some of the young kids.
Defer some of his salary next year and fit him in to what could be one of the best Yankee teams of our generation.
AJ is going to look great in pinstripes and road greys and within a couple weeks it’ll be hard to remember what he looked like in those lesser uniforms of his past. I’m saying 15 wins is the 2009 floor for AJ. AJ optimist, that’s me. Lineups that just faced CC and Wang won’t get any relief from AJ. Or, lineups facing AJ won’t have anything to look forward to with Pettitte and Joba. Or… you get the picture.
CB,
–the Yankees scored 789 runs last year.
–the Rays scored 774 runs last year.
The difference between them is miniscule, to begin with, and the Rays, once they sign a left-handed DH, and if they upgrade Gross in RF, will surpass the Yankees or at least equal them. Especially, now that the Yankees have weakened their lineup, by discarding the two hitters, together, who produced almost 25% of the 789 total, or at least failed to improve it.
As for the Rays’ bullpen, the stats speak for themselves.
1) The Rays bullpen threw 484.1 innings and amassed a 3.55 ERA
2) The Yankees bullpen threw 543.1 innings and amassed a 3.79 ERA.
The Rays bullpen excelled the Yankees in both respects last year and by only losing T.Miller stand to repeat the achievement.
Look, if you honestly believe the Yankees currently lineup with or without Cameron is adequate– even assuming Posada and Matsui magically replicate their 2007s– then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
To me, the current lineup reeks of willful blindness. The same willful blindness responsible for last year’s rotation.
I was right about the dangers of entrusting two rookies with innings caps to anchor a rotation while expecting a prolific offense to compensate.
Let’s hope I’m wrong this year about the converse: about the dangers of a relying upon an old, atrophying veteran lineup while expecting two potential free-agent aces to compensate.
The pitching has been improved and the team is a little younger and more flexible but the burden will lie on Joe Girardi’s shoulders to strategize his game to more run production.
The good Yankee teams knew how to pad a lead with just enough insurance runs to put a team away without humiliating them. Joe Girardi was part of those teams.
Taveras would be a good signing for our CF great speed on the bases and in the field and is good defensively