There’s only so much space left now
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2008 
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We don’t yet know if CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett’s contracts call for their average annual values each season or whether some of the money is frontloaded, backloaded or deferred.
Let’s assume Sabathia will receive $23 million in 2009 and Burnett $16.5. Figuring on conservative raises for Chien-Ming Wang (say $5 million), Xavier Nady (say $6 million) and Brian Bruney (say, $1.2 million), I have the Yankees at $172.65 million for 14 players.
If Andy Pettitte agrees to $10 million, that’s $183 million more or less with 10 players left to add. This would include Joba Chamberlain, assorted relievers and assorted bench guys. Figure on $500,000 each, or a total of $5 million.
Now we’re up to $188 million.
If they go get Mike Cameron, that’s $197.5 million unless they get Milwaukee to pay some of his salary. Even if they do, the Yankees are still well over $190 million.
Cameron or no Cameron, there’s no dough left for Mark Teixeira or Manny Ramirez unless Brian Cashman has been flat-out fibbing the entire time. At some point, the Yankees can’t have a roster full of players with long-term, expensive contracts. That makes no sense.
As the great Norman Dale told the citizens of Hickory, “This is your team.”
So who get’s the Yankees first round and supplemental next year? The Brewers (CC) or the Jays (Burnett)?
Yankees 09 = Blue jays 08
many 2 to 1 losses
So where are the Yankees printing their own money?
I’ve been living in the Bronx for a few months now, but I still haven’t found a mint amidst the amazing Madonna Brothers bakery and the Italian restaurants on Arthur Ave…
THIS DEAL IS GREAT. EVEN IF AJ ONLY PERFORMS for TWO YEARS. WHY? BECAUSE in two-years Zack M, Betances, Or De La Rosa will be waiting in the wings for their shot in the big leagues.
And what a darn good team it will be. Good to see it’s all coming together early
manny ramirez will relieve arod of all pressure
we need him and will sign him pete
u are wrong my friend
I’m so glad we spent all that money on a man with a 1.3 WHIP, 111 ERA+ and constant injury problems.
But hey, look what he did last year. Or don’t. Even that wasn’t all that good.
Yanks could still make a salary dump trade. They aren’t gonna let all this pitching go to waste by not adding another middle of the order bat, either by trade or FA.
No way Wanger gets that much money Pete after missing most of the year. 3-4 mill he will get.
Wang
CC
Burnett
Joba
will be tough in any 5 or 7 game series
It will be nice to have all of this taken care of earlier–more time to figure out how the team will work. If memory serve, the only thing to go down at the deadline last year was the Tigers/Marlins thing with Maybin, Miller, Willis and Miggy Cabrera
Matt DiBari
December 12th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I’m so glad we spent all that money with a 1.3 WHIP, 111 ERA+ and constant injury problems.
But hey, look what he did last year. Or don’t. Even that wasn’t all that good.
———————————-
It was still better than Kennedy/Rasner/Hughes/Ponson combined.
I think that’s a lot of money for Burnett. Lowe and Sheets are as reliable as him, but very much cheaper. From those three, Burnett was the last on my list. More than 80 million for him, to me, is crazy. Unfortunately, we shall forget Lowe and Sheets. And it seems I was not alone on this, according to the poll on the right side of this site.
Phil,
that salary dump trade would be Nick Johnson if the Nats seriously landed Mark Teixeria.
The Yanks set up with:
Sabathia
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
…but as for the 5th starter, wouldn’t you rather have Phil Hughes come through and Joba be the 8th inning man for Mo since his innings are limited this 09 season?? Hughes would awesome if he can command his pitches next year..
Matt
18 wins a 3.8 era and leading the AL in K’s isn’t that good?
If we can get some protection for Arod…
No way the Yankees don’t add a bat. Pete, I think you’re wrong on this one. I’m thinking Manny or Dunn.
Hughes’ innings are limited as well. He’s still on schedule to throw about 150-180 next year. Nowhere near enough for a full season.
I have no words about the AJ deal. My words and feelings can only be summed up in this.
http://tinyurl.com/2mydb4
“wouldn’t you rather have Phil Hughes come through and Joba be the 8th inning man”
ABsolutely positively no. No not never no way. Not in the bullpen no no no no.No? Certainly not. Any other way to say don’t put Joba in the pen.
How about if they don’t sign Andy and don’t trade for Cameron and use that $20 million to sign Texiera??? I really like that. Let Hughes try to win the #5 starter spot.
I think this means so long for Andy Pettitte. We should all thank Andy for his great years with us, but there’s little point bringing him back if the second half of last season is the best he could do. Perhaps he was injured, but at his age it’s alot tougher to bounce back.
On the flip side, there’s no point to keeping Hughes in AAA, since he already dominates at that level. What he needs to do is cut his teeth at the major league level. At No. 5 behind CC, Wang, AJ, and Joba, he won’t be under huge pressure and, let’s hope, can learn and develop into a solid ML pitcher.
I could still see us adding a guy like texiera if the cameron deal doesnt go through but we could have to trade matsui.
Joba stays in the rotation.
From the last thread…
“I agree it’s a huge gamble over the life of the contract, but maybe not as much for the first couple years (absent his health history), which goes more to your “all-in” theory.”
Nick,
Unfortunately, part of what makes the gamble so big is that it’s both a enormous gamble over the life of the contract (as it would be with any pitcher though more so with AJ) but it’s also a large risk short term as well.
It’s got large risk on both ends of the time spectrum.
There just so much variance in the number of innings he’ll throw in any one season that it’s tough to have any idea what he’ll give them even next year.
One of the things that makes me feel better about his long term risk is that he’s already had TJ, had the complication of the recovery period and seems to have emerged.
In a weird way I’d feel even worse about this deal if AJ hadn’t had TJ. Very rare that any pitcher needs TJ twice. AJ does have a violent delivery however. Don’t know if this makes sense.
In 2009 will he be closer to the AJ of 2007 or 2008? Who knows.
The risk that links them both is more qualitative – it’s more about personality unfortunately. Basically the knock on AJ is that he’s just not willing to grind out a season in order to help his team.
That’s the knock. That he’ll head to the DL over very little. That he would never ever do for a team what CC would.
That’s really what it gets down for.
This contract is a bet that AJ has become a new person as a baseball player.
That was all the talk about AJ this season. He was mentored by Halladay and it finally sunk in.
Al Leiter who is a smart guy swears by AJ. Loves him. Al thinks it’s a new AJ. A more mature guy.
That’s the risk and that’s short term and long term.
They are betting on the guy more than the stuff.
“ABsolutely positively no. No not never no way. Not in the bullpen no no no no.No? Certainly not. Any other way to say don’t put Joba in the pen.”
If Joba’s innings are limited to say 150 innings since he did come off a shoulder strain then the team could actually benefit with him setting up Mo for 1 season. UNSTOPPABLE PEN !!
Take into account the Giambi $5M buyout and contract increases
for Arod($5M)and Cano($3M)
I have been calling for another bat for a while, but Lord if we can’t win with this pitching staff it would be 2008 times a trillion. I just cannot fathom the Yankees offense will be even worse than last year. Even an average lineup would make the playoffs with our starting rotation and bullpen, as of now. Just do the little things better, execute better, hit more sac flies and move runners over. Improve average w/ RISP, I know I know easier said than done. But you don’t need a lineup full of superstars to hit well w/ RISP- look at the Twins last year. I’m excited for 2009 and beyond. Combined with our improved farm system and our now dominant pitching staff, things are looking better for the future than they were not even that long ago. I don’t think people should be negative at all here, think about if we missed out on everyone this offseason… everyone would be going crazy. Be happy people, we have a better chance now.
TheEd(itor)
December 12th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
How about if they don’t sign Andy and don’t trade for Cameron and use that $20 million to sign Texiera??? I really like that. Let Hughes try to win the #5 starter spot.
I really like that idea. Im a huge Phil Hughes fan even after his struggles i went online and bought his jersey and dont ya know 5 days later Marte was number 34. lol
Either way you look at it; Hughes and Joba will share 5th starter duties if they stay healthy.
I like AJ Burnett!! I think he could be great in NY!
BTW, I would not be surprised in Carl Pavano went to NL and thrived next year! Pitching is a funny thing!
There was this pitcher who pitched for 6 years in the majors but who had talent. There was always something going wrong. Too many walks. ERA’s hovering around 4.00 in a pitchers park with a great defense behind him. Some thought he’d never make it as a real star. Then at the ripe old age of 25 he made the All-Star team & even was named the All Star MVP, but fade the rest of the year. Lots of folks wanted him traded or wanted to give up on him. At the end of the very next year at age 27 someone figured out a flaw he had in his delivery that caused his fastballs to be erratic and his stats the next year were as follows:
IP-311
GS-40
CG-20
K-308
BB-58
ERA-1.88
He was named MVP & CY Young winner. So anything can happen! Oh, his name was Sandy Koufax!!! And he only pitched 3 more years and retired at the age of 30.
Pete-
Thanks for answering my question with this post. Hope you’re more rested.
sunny615-
I believe the worst team gets the Yankees spot in picking, so that would be the Jays with the Brewers picking in the 2nd round. Still the Yankees pick in the 1st and 2nd rounds because they failed to sign those players this year. In the 1st round will they pick right after the Jays??
If the salary is at 188 million, do we spend another 2 million on the bench, get Cameron, or get the best hitter available who plays the outfield for less, or what we’ll have to pay Cameron?
Anyone now what Ibanez signed for?
Do we want lefty Garrett Anderson for one year, who hit lefties at a .290 clip and made 9 assists in LF with no errors, or righty Mike Cameron in CF who hit righties at .231 clip and would cost us 2 players who might be useful in a future trade???
2 things people say ok this blog that show how ignorant they are re: the game:
1. Burnett is another Pavano. Take a look at both their careers and you will see how dumb that comment is.
2. ’09 Yankees=’08 Blue Jays. Any team with Arod, Damon, Jeter, etc isn’t the Blue Jays.
There are going to be available bats in Jan if they need to add one.
You win with deep and dominant starting pitching.
That’s what they are putting together.
I don’t think there will be any more signings unless we make a trade. And really, who can we trade…Matsui, Damon? Then we are without a 25HR+ DH or our LF/lead-off hitter.
We’ve been down this road before. Other than the potential Cameron/Melky trade, I think Cashman is done and whether we all agree or not, he accomplished what he set out to do and quickly too.
this is why you sign mark texeria and secrew mike. do both, no luxury tax, new ballbark. LETS GO or sign manny
“You win with deep and dominant starting pitching.”
Just ask the Oakland A’s!
I seriously think Pete should consider banning the “let’s be sure and get Tex and/or Manny too!” people. You are all delusional…
CB
December 12th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
“If everyone stays healthy on the pitching staff, it has a possibility of cranking out 13-1400 strikeouts and that will take much of the defensive issues out of play.”
This is and has been clearly part of the team’s long term strategy.
They are basically acknowledge that the left side of the infield is never going to be very good or more than average with Jeter and ARod there.
So the strategy is just to prevent any contact from being made.
This is why the yankees placed a particular value on AJ.
The team is being assembled in a very rational, carefully thought out way.
————————————————————
It’s the next best thing to signing all gloves and scratching for runs like the 1962-1966 Dodgers.
If the Yanks could trade Matsui, they could afford Manny for 2 years IMO.
“Fact: Brian Cashman has said they aren’t doing 3 big-ticket players.”
Bubba is looking great in CF!
SJ,
Now that he’s signed I’ll ask.
Do you buy the idea that AJ is a reinvented man? More mature and now has his act together in way which is going to get him to take the ball every 5 days and compete even when he’s not feeling 100%?
It seems to me that that’s going to be a big part of this deal.
Is AJ going to compete?
The stuff is just unbelievable. AJ, Joba and CC in a three game set… The team would be favored to win every game unless Halladay is throwing for the other side.
I really like the no Pettite no Cameron/sign Tex and Manny idea!
If they could add Tex and Manny that would just be the best thing ever!!!!
So it looks like the Yankees have an option…
Pettite + Cameron
or
Texeira
hmm… i’ll take texeira
First Thank You Hal. If it’s this nerve racking for us, I cant imagine what it’s like for you. Second dont stop now! We have only one chance to open the new Yankee Stadium the right way. Go over budget, trade prospects whatever it takes to win next year! Just do it. We are close!
Actually, Pete, with the rate of deterioration Vlad is going through, I don’t think the Angels need a DH with Zombie-like speed…
Joe LI: I believ Giambi’s buyout gets tacked onto this year’s payroll, not 2009′s. They might have already cut the check. I think Cashman handed it to him at the roulette wheel.
CB: you make excellent points and I disagree with none of them, but hopefully the fact that CC and Wang are anchoring the rotation with Pettitte/pitcher X and Joba/ friends below means that trouble with AJ isn’t as disastrous as what happened to the rotation in 2008 with Hughes/Kennedy and Wang’s injury. Or: better safety nets.
Now if we only had a leader like oswalt who would be willing to restructure his deal. This is not a shot at anyone in particular could be Damon Matsui Jeter A-rod Posada Rivera. even all of them. they should all take 2 million of this years contracts lol. thats an extra 12 million for a bat.
Meanwhile, I’m begging people, stop advocating putting Joba in the bullpen. You’re just showing you know zippo about the game when you do that. He was just about the best starter in the AL when he was in the rotation last season.
Yes, he could be a fantastic reliever. You know what? A-Rod would be a fantastic player off the bench, too. You use your best players where you can get the most out of them, period. The idea is to build him up and use him as a starter.
I realize last season was a long time ago. But the Rays had a 774-run offense and cruised to the playoffs. They won because there five starters each made 27+ starts and were damn good. Starting pitching is how you win a championship.
The softball offenses they’ve had for the last bunch of seasons got them nowhere.
“The stuff is just unbelievable. AJ, Joba and CC in a three game set… The team would be favored to win every game unless Halladay is throwing for the other side.”
Don’t forget about Wang.. If he’s on his game, I’d take him over CC as the #1.
Yankee Magazine has two great interviews now on YES. Chilli Davis and the great Johnny Blanchard. Ok, not The Great, but a lot of fun to listen to.
My question is going forward what do the yankees do to fill the holes they will have after next season? They will likely shed about $54 million in contracts after Damon, Matsui, Nady, Cameron, and Pettite depart. Presumably they will fill the holes at center and in the rotation from within (Hughes, or another prospect will presumably be ready to take over the 5th starter spot, and Austin Jackson will hopefully be good enough to continue his developement in the majors). But that still leaves holes at both corner outfield spots, and at DH. If there’s no money to get somebody now (like Adam Dunn) then who are we getting next year? Matt Holliday looks to be available, and the Yanks will certainly have the money to get him, but who else is worth taking from next year’s class to fill holes? In addition to Holliday (presumptuous I know) they will need two guys. Aubrey Huff maybe, and somebody else? Any thoughts?
Gb,
Chris Burke for utitly role?
CB,
I read what you said about Al Leiter and AJ. I heard Leiter on the Michael Kay show yesterday and not only does he think that Burnett has matured, but he also said that Burnett is less likely to be injured because he changed his delivery. Claims it is not so violent and that AJ is not trying to throw every ball 98 mph.
It’s not Cameron or Teixeira. Cameron costs 10 and maybe less, Teixeira would cost at least 20 over multiple seasons.
They did not get Nick Swisher to sit.
I give up trying to explain things. Enjoy your fantasy baseball.
Thanks Yankee Trader
“So it looks like the Yankees have an option…
Pettite + Cameron
or
Texeira
hmm… i’ll take texeira”
No. This is not the option. In baseball what matters is the guaranteed money.
That’s the fixed cost.
It’s meaningless to say that you could spend a marginal 20M on cameron + pettite or on Tex as if the two were equal.
They are not in any way.
That’s just playing with the fact that dollars are fungible.
No business would equate some short term commitment with a long term fixed cost.
They are nothing alike at all.
I sure would like to see the Yanks pick up Chris Burke as a utility guy. He was just non-tendered today.
He doesn’t have the batting numbers to back him up, but he is really a great player. 2nd, short, 3rd, and outfield.
“You know what? A-Rod would be a fantastic player off the bench, too.”
Based on what?
In his career as a PH he’s 0-8 with 3 k’s.
In his career as a substition he’s 1-16 with 7ks
That argument doesn’t hold much water in comparison to Joba.
Brian, 3.8 ERA?
Aside from that, the 105 ERA+ and 1.342 WHIP really weren’t all that good, no.
CB, I don’t touch that question with a ten foot pointy spork until the season actually starts.
Hell, this time last year we were all bemoaning that we couldn’t get rid of Moose and singing the praises of Phil and IPK. A lot can change, and it’s far too soon to conjecture.
About Pete’s point:
Even if the Yankees had the resources to go over $200 million, I can’t see them doing it right now. It’s going to be hard enough to fill some of those non-luxury-box seats for a while after the new car smell wears off…
Yeh and the Rays have a young fast defense that we dont compare with. We need another bat.
BUT Cameron is over the hill, good for maybe 1 or 2 more seasons, and not worth 10 million more than Melky. Tex is in his prime and one of the best 1B options we’ll have for years to come.
lol @ Pete trying to use reason to convince people that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck. But it could be a dog! Welcome to the comments section of your blog.
Dave-”
Now if we only had a leader like oswalt who would be willing to restructure his deal.”
That’s a point I brought up last post. Leaders like Jeter, Posada and especially A-Rod should offer to do that, unless A-Rod believes with Matsui or Posada hitting behind him, he can be all that he wants to be!!!
Ed – CC and AJ are now Yanks!! Aj better stays healthy!!!
December 12th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Gb,
Chris Burke for utitly role?
————————————————————
He’s usable, but, I’d prefer Cora, who can play a good shortstop.
Fran,
Leiter has said very good things about Burnett over and over this year.
You can tell that he loves AJ as a pitcher.
The two seem to be friends or just friendly so perhaps he’s biased.
But you can tell he thinks AJ has come a long way.
Hopefully he’s right.
As crazy as this contract is – if AJ takes off – the deal could at least in theory be a bargain.
AJ has the stuff to be a true #1 guy. A #1 for $17m/yr is actually a good deal.
Big if however.
The Yanks will add a big bat. This whole “Yanks don’t have the money” or “cannot afford one” is nonsense. This is the New York Yankees. We can afford to drop as much money as we want on whoever we want. I am not saying that is the right thing this team needs but until Hank or Hal come out and say they want to cut payroll then I will believe it. I heard Cashman can say he wants to cut payroll all day but at the end of the day it is the Hank and Hal’s final say on what goes on. Pete your wrong on this one my friend.
Pete,
But Mariano has arguably been our best pitcher the last decade.
I think the point is that if Joba is lights-out as set-up man and then closer in 2 years versus being a very good starter but not a premiere starter, you might want him to do what he excels at if you can replace his rotation spot with a premiere pitcher. I am NOT saying that is the situation here but it is not an indefensable premise if that were the case.
Steve
E-Man: You’re assessing a player on 8 at-bats? That’s brilliant.
CB,
I know a couple of guys on the Jays. They said he’s grown up a lot the past two years.
Changed his diet, changed his workout regimen, and really dedicated himself to the game.
Schilling had his “Come to Jesus” talk from Clemens that changed his career. For AJ, it was Doc Holliday who changed his career path.
I like the signing and I like what Cash is doing this off-season.
I think its funny E-man actually looked up arods stats to try and prove Pete wrong. lol
teddy -
There is luxury tax. I believe it’s the revenue sharing that is lessened due to the new stadium.
Ari-
This years FA class was the best for pitching, next years looks best for corner outfielders and 2nd baseman.
Bay, Ankiel, Holliday, and Dye and Ordonez or Crawford [if club options not picked up], as well as Damon and Nady plus others.
“Yes, (Joba) could be a fantastic reliever. You know what? A-Rod would be a fantastic player off the bench, too.”
Pete, that was both simply brilliant and brilliantly simple.
If people don’t comprehend that, or if they think you’re onto something with A-Rod coming in off the bench, they should be Francesca’s next on-air sidekick.
Pete, and you’re assessing him on what? His reputation?
“Schilling had his “Come to Jesus” talk from Clemens that changed his career. For AJ, it was Doc Holliday who changed his career path.”
SJ,
I really, really hope so. I keep bringing up the Schilling analogy but that’s clearly what they are betting on.
I was very surprised to see how Ricciardi changed his tune about AJ during this season. The AJ signing was not working out real good and Ricciardi basically came out at the start of the year and questioned AJ’s heart.
But during the year you could just tell JP was looking at AJ in a very different way and was saying things in preparation for him opting out.
I was also happy to see how aggressively the Jays tried to pursue him in this economic environment. Cito really seemed to like Burentt and that says alot. Cito’s a very good baseball man. But the jays just didn’t have the dollars/ couldn’t take on the risk.
It’s about as big a risk as the club has taken over the past 30 years I think given the dollars at stake and the length.
Luxury tax is 40 % for every dollar above 162 million and yes we have to pay it.
CB, AJ has had the “stuff” to be a number one guy his whole career and never came all that close. His best healthy season by a country mile topped out at 122 ERA+ Hasn’t come close since. That’s not a number one guy. Why would he suddenly become a number one guy at 32 years old? I’m not happy betting the Yankees success on the idea that a man reinvented himself so much ten years into his career that he will become a much better pitcher than he ever was at 32 years old.
Which is why signing Andy and Cameron is INSANE!
Hey Pete, are you accounting for A-rod and Cano getting raises this year? Their contracts are structured so that A-rod is paid 32 million and Cano is paid 6 million in 2009. My payroll calculations with Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte and Cameron come out to a bit over $200 million so we are pretty close regardless. There is no way Cashman makes another big signing.
Flexibility!! That is the key word on the Yankees Pitching staff that has been missing for so long!!! Now they literally have 3 or 4 #1 or #1A starters in CC, AJ, Joba & Wang. A full complement in the bullpen as well. That is awesome. Add to that the depth in Pitchers in the minors and WOW!!! Of course I’d like to see Andy back because LHP in Yankee stadium are special. Joba, should be the #5 starter to give him the rest and fewer innings needed.
Maybe the hitters won’t press as much in 2009 as they did in 2008, because every run was needed!!!
CB
December 12th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Fran,
Leiter has said very good things about Burnett over and over this year.
You can tell that he loves AJ as a pitcher.
The two seem to be friends or just friendly so perhaps he’s biased.
But you can tell he thinks AJ has come a long way.
Hopefully he’s right.
As crazy as this contract is – if AJ takes off – the deal could at least in theory be a bargain.
AJ has the stuff to be a true #1 guy. A #1 for $17m/yr is actually a good deal.
Big if however.
————————————————————
Leiter was talking about pitchi9ng with Burnett early in Burnett’s career. He said that he waould talk to him about pitching and it was like talking to a wall. said he was a nice kid, just stubborn. He said there were days he wanted to beat his brains out, because Burnett had so much talent.
There’ve been a bunch of pitchers in baseball history who were injured and inconsisten in their 20′s only to become outstanding front of the rotation types in their 30′s.
Ok lets say Pete’s Right no more spending. Doesn’t the signing of CC, AJ, and Andy make players like Kennedy, Aceves,et al expendable. Could we not put a package together for a decent bat to protect Arod. Preferably one who plays 1B or CF?
E-Man … A-Rod’s a starter. A perennial all-star. A future legend. Of the few times he’s ever come off the bench throughout his career, he was probably on the bench because he was nursing an injury most of the time. The assesment you make is significantly meaningless and shows you missed Pete’s point.
peter with all due respect is comes down to value, mark t is an ELITE SLUGGER, you then let brett play defense. mark t kills cameronin terms of offensive value. brett a better defender, which goes to to run prevention. you put swisher in rf. his 82 walks extremly valueable.Now before you say nady the yanks rf, he a 4th outfielder. thats what he was in sd. he has 1 good year. by having nady as the 4th guy, you can rest matsui and damon more, is about depth. matsui and damon 26 million come off the books. lets says hideki gets hurt, who the 3rd hitter that pushes posada to 3rd. now who hits 5th. maybe cano. swisher could rebound, maybe not, if nady doesn’t hit, he a career 260 hitter with a decent obp. yanks payroll last year was 208, telling they can eat another 5th million for 1 year, no luxury tax . whaat if cano doesn’t rebound. to many what if in this lineup. i think robbie will hit
I like Andy, Sheets and Hughes all for the number 5 spot. i think Hughes just need sto get in a rythem maybe have molina catch him every start or posada every start. at the beginning of last year it wa sposada then molina and moehler then pudge later on i feel a young pitcher needs a constant target and both Posada and Molina are smart behind the plate.
Pete, what are your thoughts on whether the Yankees will sign Teixeira? I just can’t tell from your posts, they are too subtle.
E-Man:
Go to the kitchen, get a fork and then while holding it, jam it into an electrical outlet. Give yourself enough shocks until you get your brain re-sets.
My point is that great starters would obviously make great relievers. If a pitcher like Joba can get 21 guys out, it stands to reason he should be able to get 3.
Alex is a great hitter, runner, fielder and has a great arm. He would be an excellent player to have in reserve. Only an idiot doesn’t grasp that. But because he is so talented, he starts.
It’s really not complicated. And Mariano is not a valid comparison. Mo was tried as a starter and failed because he had one good pitch. No starter can survive with one pitch. Mo also lacks the stamina for a starter.
99 percent of the time, relievers were failed starters at some point in their career, majors or minors. Joba has to be given every chance to start before considering him in relief.
“No. This is not the option. In baseball what matters is the guaranteed money.
That’s the fixed cost.
It’s meaningless to say that you could spend a marginal 20M on cameron + pettite or on Tex as if the two were equal.
They are not in any way.
That’s just playing with the fact that dollars are fungible.
No business would equate some short term commitment with a long term fixed cost.
They are nothing alike at all.”
you’re right about comparing short term money to long term money, but you’re acting like the yankees will never have any more long term deals off the books. After this season, matsui/damon are gone and damon can be replaced cheaply with swisher.
Pettite would be the 5th best pitcher on the team.. i’d rather take a small downgrade and try to approximate his success with cheaper options for the year.
Cameron is a solid upgrade over Gardner in center, but Texeira is a much better option than spending 10-12mil on a 5 starter, and the 10 mil for Cameron.
Pete,
I believe some of us would consider moving Joba to a setup position only because of how much it makes the team appear to be stronger. No one I know of outside of Posada who actually thinks that Joba isn’t a better SP than RP. And certainly long term he must be a SP!
I personally want him to start!!!!!!!
Now, if Pettite signs or Sheets and a rookie (Hughes, IPK, Ace or other) pitch lights out then would it even be considered for part of the year for Joba as a setup guy down the stretch???
Teddy. so your saying you want swisher, .219 24 69 to start over Nady .305 25 97. umm…
What am I missing? The negative reaction to signing AJ in the media is almost unanimous.
He has had the Tommy John surgery and recovered with his fastball intact. He won 18 games in front of a so so Blue Jay team and is only 32. He is 5 and 0 against Boston. Atlanta was offering 80mm. How is this such an awful deal?
Everybody needs to calm down about the offense. Every year bats become available as teams fall out of it and being that our rotation is contractually solidified for a few years at least, we have a TON of flexibility with our young arms. I’m, not giving up on them, but you can’t keep everybody and sometimes just need to part ways with a guy, despite how good you may think he can be (IPK). Look at what Cash was able to do by getting Nady and Marte, two highly touted trade players during last season. Cash got BOTH for…who? Pitching is rarely available during a season to trade for and if it is, it’s much harder to get. Asking prices are way high.
Now, I think Burnett is a horrible deal. Rather have Garland/Sheets/Pettite. He will be on DL early and often. He may show promise when he gets out there, but you dont pay a guy 16.5 per year for sporatic above average starts. Thats what Sheets can give you for a lot less money. Lowe has pitched in the NL the last 3 years and Garland is younger, wants less $$, and has been a proven starter in the AL his career. Lowe is also older.
Comments? Arguments? I like when people prove me wrong
As I stated above, what we have now, other than the possibility of Cameron, and maybe a bench/utility player, is what we’ve got for next season.
Cashman did what he needed to do to get the best FA starters on the market. He also traded for a legitimate 1B that doesn’t cost too much.
You never know which members of any team will last throughout an entire season. Girardi has to do his best with what Cashman and the Steinbrenners provided for him.
ANSKY, I know what Pete’s point is but the AROD comparison is ridiculous and baseless.
With Joba there’s at least a debate because you need BOTH starting pitching AND a bullpen to WIN. And he’s proven to be dominate at both. Now it’s just a matter of OPINION and not FACT of where he belongs.
Teddy: Tex is a great player. So is Manny. The point is the Yankees aren’t going to have a $210 million payroll again no matter how good they are. They’re just not. They’ll get to a point where the entire roster is signed to long term, expensive contracts. That makes no sense.
They have Swisher. As Jeter and/or Posada get older, they could play 1B. They also have Montero on the way, who many scouts believe will play first.
They can’t have every single player available. They went with the pitchers.
Sign me for 10 Mil and trade matsui eat up 6 mil of his contract!!! then thats 10 mil for me and 6 for him wich is 16 what he makes not no extra money added and yanks get a prospect… lets do it!
Vrsce, he’s started 30 games twice in his 10 year career. When he does start, he allows way too many baserunners and way too many runs to be considered a top tier pitches, which 80 mil over 5 years suggests.
In short, he’s always hurt and only a little better than average when he actually pitches.
The beauty of this rotation, as risky as it may turn out to be, is that a guy like Burnett is not the #1, though he can pitch like one.
We gotta find some dough for Manny!!
Pete,
you seem a little upset. did the tables here in Vegas not treat you well?
as for the idiot comments, you need to weed through those. People with a clue know that Joba could be the Ace of this staff as early as next year
GB,
I missed hearing Leiter say that. Where were they teammates? In Florida?
The Yankee bullpen right now is probably as versatile and better than any in baseball. It certainly has a collection of some of the hardest throwers. Left and right handed. Why weaken one spot to make the strongest in baseball stronger? Makes zero sense.
Hey, here’s a thought, if we need a bat so bad, why not ship some of the excess starters we have in the minors (2-3) and melky to the cardinals for Ankiel? He’s cheaper and younger than Cameron, not to mention 100 times better.
I love how you people calling for Mannny will be the same ones calling for him to be traded to Toronto for Doc Halliday after Manny has one of his Manny being Manny moments
oh and NO ONE is going to take Matsui’s salary in a trade!
Are the same people calling for Manny now the same people who said NO to Delgado before…because he would be bad for the clubhouse?
Green Beret,
I hate to say it but the Stem bullpen is looking pretty sick now
Fran
December 12th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
GB,
I missed hearing Leiter say that. Where were they teammates? In Florida?
————————————————————
Yeah, team mates in Florida in 2005. He was talking about Burnett last season while Burnett was pitching against the Yanks.
Hey i got an idea to get manny and texiera both!!!! we have a car wash with the players wifes in bikinis!!!!
peter thanks for the response i am big fan. when the yanks won in 94 games, look at melky numbers that year.To be fair arod, had a career year, so did posada. i understand you don’t need to score 900 runs to wins. look back threw the 90, they griddy types hitters who made pitchers works. i understand lowering payroll, but thats why you don’t bring cameron. he a nice centerfielder, but is he a better cf than brett in terms of defense no, is he a better hitter yes. tek solves 2 problems the 1st great defense at 1st. tex can carry an offense threw a slump. if burnett were to get hurt, which is a possabilty, which then puts pressure of offense. i think mark t would be a great addituion, not because he a biig name, he add serious offense, run prevention doesn’t make many outs with a 410 obp, switch hitter. i admit i want him, but is great to talk baseball, have a great day GO YANKEES
Brian in 702
December 12th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Green Beret,
I hate to say it but the Stem bullpen is looking pretty sick now
————————————————————
Yes, the Mets now have a very good pen, but, 1 through 7, the Yanks are light years ahead. Marte and Bruney were closers before coming to the Yanks. This pen doesn’t even include Melancon.
They have $1 million for Rasner coming back. Think they could interest Japan in a few more players to knock the payroll down a little?
Pat,
Do you mean like taking one of their native sons back?
Perhaps they will not resign Andy; and if they do not take Cameron on for 10mm,the team is at aaprox 175mm
Pete,
I think any move at Teixeira would need to follow a trade of either Damon or Matsui (not saying there’s a market for either). However, if they can trade one of the two (Damon probably has more of a market) that would pay for some of Teixeira. Also, the other player not traded (Matsui) comes off the books after next year, so it’s only a one year “hit”.
I really think the Yanks planned on going after Tex all along, but they had to bluff to keep the Angels from bidding on Sabathia once they realized Tex wasn’t coming back. Now that Sabathia is in the fold, they can make their push for Tex.
On what I think should prove a very auspicious day, worth thanking Hank and Hal for forking out the big bucks. Some were afraid they’d cut back but we have to be grateful they’ve really stepped up. Don’t know if George pays attention these days. But if he does, he should be very proud of his boys.
Pete, Just because Arod is an athlete doesn’t mean he can adapt to any role. Some players can’t.
Giambi couldn’t DH. His numbers were drastically different than his 1b numbers.
Most pitchers can’t close.. Alot of closers can’t pitch in non save situations.
Joba can do all. That’s the point. If we’re hurting in the bullpen and strong in the rotation, Why not? and Vice Versa.
Now as to that fork think, after your meal you can do the same thing.
thats what i am thinking casey.
Two things
Igawa Contract at 4 million for 2009
but the yankees got 1 million from Rasner contract purchase.
you could also try to deferr some texeria salary in the first year and move it up after johnny and matsui go. at this point matsui the yanks 3rd hitter. is not awful. can he stay healthy
To people saying to sign Tex by cutting Pettite and Cameron: I’d be fine with not signing Cameron since I don’t love that deal anyway, but how do you get by without Pettite? As of now our rotation is
CC
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Hughes
IPK
Aceves
This rotation has insane upside, but it also has the problem of having only two reliable starters. Joba can’t go over 150, Burnett can’t be considered reliable. Strong as the rotation is when it’s clicking, it still needs one more guy (a consistent guy) in there to become resistant to variance.
If that guy isn’t Pettite, than it’s Lowe. I prefer Pettite, but either way you’re gonna have to allocate at least $10 mil to the last pitcher. The only way to make room for another $20 mil contract is by passing on the Cameron deal AND passing on Pettite/Lowe, in which case you’ll need to find a pitcher through the trade market.
I do see the value of adding exactly one more bat because you’d get whatever value from that new guy, AND you’d get value from ARod’s added protection. In other words the whole is greater than the sum of the parts because two big bats next to each other provide synergy. More bats after the first two, and you start having diminishing returns, but two is a very good number.
Perhaps this isn’t the offseason to get that second bat, since I don’t think Tex is realistic, and Manny is possible (and would be fantastic) but it’s a stretch too. Realistically, I see us getting an Ankiel type bat for this season, and using the $35 off the books next year to sign a big bat for ARod come 2010, ie the last piece of the puzzle.
What am I missing? The negative reaction to signing AJ in the media is almost unanimous.
You’re missing nothing. It’s a great signing.
I am somewhat amused by this notion that Sheets represents better value. Yeah, you can get him for just 13 mill a year two years, everyone keeps saying. Well, if that’s the case and the cumulative wisdom of the market is he’s not worth more, maybe everyone knows something. Maybe he is a risk. And think of this. The guy had an elbow problem and many have claimed it should heal. But what if it doesn’t and he needs surgery sometime this year? Well then, he’s out next year too. So a two year deal is actually a very bad deal.
Now if in fact the prognosis on Sheets is good, then I don’t think anyone’s gonna get him that cheap. So let’s see what he signs for.
As for Burnett, if he were the only signing I’d be worried. But we’ve already signed the big young healthy stud. AJ is gravy.
Just a question.
What is the overall change in ticket price for the new stadium?
I ask this only to bring up that last years salary is not a good indicator for what the budget is for this year.
Assuming a price increase of 20% for tickets, which would be conservative over last years increase of 25%. Now include the 5% decrease in capacity, the Yankees should be working with more than 15% more money than last year, that is without considering all the new money making amenities of the New Stadium.
The points is I always assumed that the average payroll for the Yankees was in the 180-210 range for the old stadium. But for the new park it would be 205-240. Which would be a 15% increase. I know those numbers sound insane however considering the point of the new park was to keep the team economically superior I do not think I am that far off.
I think Peter Abraham is correct in his current prediction of a budget of 190-200. But i believe that there is still money in the bank to be spent.
you could try to deferred money for tex atleast for 1 season. cameron or texeria
The Yankees have to add a bat in the middle of that order. I do not want to see us going into the Spring with Matsui hitting behind Arod. If they even keep Matsui, he’s a # 6 hitter at this point in his career. At least on the Yankees.
STOP. Tex. Is. Not. Coming. Let it go….
They should just offer Texiera 25M over 7 years, and get him for first base. The Yanks will go over 200M in salary anyway, might as well get the right guy.
I meant 25M per season.
So we’re stuck with Mike Cameron’s career .250 average and tremendously horrific eye hitting 7th this season …
yeah, THAT’LL improve the offense with runners on base/RISP
cameron isn’t a yank yet, so hopefully cashman goes after tek. i understand you don’t want long contracts, damon, hideki done after next season, wwere talking about a 4 tool player, in his prime, he takes the yanks lineup to the next level. cameron is nice, but slighy above average
The current Yankees team does not have a #3 hitter. Abreu needs to be replaced somehow. I’m not saying Teixeira is the only answer, but he’s the one available without giving up prospects unless they get Abreu back. But even if they got Abreu back they would still need to trade one of Nady, Matsui, Damon.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable going into the season counting on Matsui to be a healthy #3 all year.
I keep flashing back to Cashman saying “We’d be very comfortable starting the season with Bubba Crosby in CF”. It was obvious to everyone the Yankees wouldn’t do that and now they wont go into the season without getting a #3 hitter.
casey you sir are dead right, if you put mark t on the yankees, you can live with brett defense. this team with mark t would be awesome.
I previously posted something and it did not go through. So if it gets repeated I am sorry.
Yankees salary over the past 5 years has been in the 185-210 range. That was in the old stadium with a capacity of 55,000. The New Stadium of 52,000. A 5% decrease in size. However the MLB average for ticket price increase has been 25%. Assuming that this year is no different or assuming a more conservative number of 20% increase. The increase in revenue from the new Stadium will be about 15% not including all the new money making amenities such as Luxury boxes, and retail space.
Even being conservative you would have to assume that the payroll would increase at a rate of 12-16%. Which would put the salary in the range of 207-243.5 million.
I know those numbers sound huge however the point of the new stadium was to keep the team economically superior. Reggie Jackson himself used as a recruiting tool the phrase, “They take the money that they earn and put it back into the team. They don’t make money with the team.”
I think our idea of 200 million as the ceiling is over. Otherwise what was the point in the new Stadium.
Manny as the Yankees DH makes too much sense. Get it done Cash. Manny will put us over the top. 3 years 75 million…call it an off season!
Or they could just scrap the Cameron trade, Casey, and be left with:
LF Nady
CF Damon
RF Abreu
DH Matsui
OF Gardner
Aside from his arm (hence, the nickname “Dead-Arm Damon”), which should have no bearing on his defense unless he played RF, what’s the harm of having Damon in CF for 1 more season?
Forget about Cameron. Play Gardner. Use the money to buy a big bat. The offense needs one.
“As the great Norman Dale told the citizens of Hickory, “This is your team.””
He also said that line before Jimmy decided to play. So he was incorrect.
Cameron for 10m or Tex for 20m
uhm, I don’t think it is that simple to rule Tex out.
I can tell you this.. HANK WANTS A BAT! (and me too)
oh and..
AROD IS ABSOLUTELY NOT COMING BACK! *grmf, groan, grumble.
100 Win team
CC
Wang
AJ
Chamberlin
Hughes
1)Damon LF
2)Jeter SS
3)AROD 3B
4)Manny DH
5)Posada C
6)Nady RF
7)Swisher 1B
8)Cameron CF
9)Cano 2B
Trade Matsui..
I’m seriously gonna puke if I have to read another comment about Manny in pinstripes.
Pete,
The Yanks HAVE TO add Tex!
They don’t lack money and they can push back his money, look at the NFL these guy sign big contracts every year and push back the money to keep under the cap, consider the luxury tax level the cap!
Zach I’m sorry but you cannot deny how much better of a hitter it would make Arod to have Manny hitting behind him.
trade Nady, don’t get Cameron – that’s 16 million.
so then it’s just $4 million more annually for Teixeira. for four million more, you get:
Damon
Jeter
Matsui
A-Rod
Teixeira
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Gardner
patient lineup, protection behind A-Rod
#1. I think Joba should be in the rotation, but is the idea that he could be in the bullpen really that insane? Yes.
Let’s focus on the best argument for Joba being in the bullpen: Jonathan Papelbon. Papelbon can start. He has more than one pitch. The Red Sox chose to make him a closer.
The difference maker here is that the Yankees HAVE a closer. I think if Rivera went down/weren’t as good as he is, the Yankees would consider Joba as a closer. An 8th inning setup guy will NEVER be as valuable as a starter. Just look at their salaries for starters. Now you know why Joba wants to start…
#2. Re: Money issues. I’d like to point this out: “The Yankees are responsible for $51 million a year in debt service. Yet even that expense comes with a silver lining: It will help reduce the Yankees’ revenue-sharing obligations. Baseball’s 2002 collective-bargaining agreement permits teams to deduct stadium debt service and construction costs when calculating revenue sharing. Bottom line? Baseball’s 29 other teams will effectively bear a third of the cost of the Yankees’ new ballpark. “It’s a classic tax shelter,” one baseball insider says. “Not only do you get the benefit of added revenues, but you get a major revenue-sharing deduction as well.”
That being said, the real reason the Yankees wont go over $200 million has nothing to do with their ability to pay. I’d agree with Pete that part of the issue is that having many expensive long term contracts on the books is silly. However, let me throw out another possibility –
The Yankees and Mets just asked for $450 million more in tax exempt bonds from the city and state. Holding a $200+ million dollar payroll while asking the taxpayers to foot the bill for your stadium is a PR nightmare and politically would probably kill these new bonds (if the Sabathia signing didn’t already do that).
I’d guess that might be part of the Yankees thinking in trying to lower payroll.
By george someone get’s it. Sorry could pass up that corny pun.
Passing up on Teixeira is a massive mistake especially if the Yankees have no intention to bring back either or both Matsui and Damon after the ’09 season let alone Nady who also will become a FA.
The Yankees need a first baseman and Teixeira would solve that problem for the present as well as the future and he’s the complete package as that he more’s than just offense he’s awesome defensively and to miss out on him because he doesn’t fit the budget for ’09 is stupid and it’s being extremely short sided.
George is on the same page as I’m on and you either trade Nady or Swisher to save a little money and you role the dice on Melky/Gardner platoon in CF instead of Cameron and the money is there to get it done.
Let’s move past the Joba to the pen regardless what side your on because the Yankees view him as a starter so for the foreseeable future he’s a starter.
I think when it’s all said and done the 2009 rotation is this:
CC
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba
Aceves as the long man who will get spot starts.
So what happens when Jeter, ARod, and Posada all start aging and turn into 1B/DH guys, except you have Texiera locked up for the next decade? Now you not only have unmovable contracts but they’re all fighting for the same position. A Tex signing is gonna look REALLY ugly sooner than you think.
That’s why you sign Manny.
Not to say this automatically means no Tex…we’ve handled worse clogs in the past. But it’s something you have to keep in mind (after you figure out how to get Tex in the first place without going up to like $215).
At least Manny goes away after three years, just in time for all our current non-DHs to become DHs.
Ricochet –
“George is on the same page as I’m on and you either trade Nady or Swisher to save a little money and you role the dice on Melky/Gardner platoon in CF instead of Cameron and the money is there to get it done.”
They just got Swisher, they aren’t going to trade him.
Nady only made 3.35 million last year. Trading him won’t do you much good even considering the arbitration raise he’ll get.
Even if we use your logic and they trade Nady for nothing and keep Melky that only saves around 13-15 million dollars. Not enough. Also if you get Tex where do you play Swisher? In the OF they’d have Damon, Matsui, Nady, Swisher, Melky. 5 OFs? If they trade Melky it’s even worse. Between Matsui, Damon and Cameron that’s a lot of money in the OF and then you are paying Nady and Swisher to ride the pine (of course in reality neither Damon nor Matsui can play RF so one of them would have to DH/sit on the bench in this scenario). Also if Posada gets hurt/can’t catch then there is no free DH slot. Now let’s not even start on the roster implications of signing Manny or Dunn.
I want Tex too, but Pete is right. It won’t happen. If they sign Tex to a $200 million dollar deal the Yankees can kiss their share of the $450 million dollar tax exempt bonds goodbye. They won’t do it. Politically they can’t.
Rich wants to trade Matsui … where? For who? What GM would take a chance on a 34-yr-old DH with two offseason knee injuries? Other teams would fleece Ca$hMoney in a trade.
And why trade Nady, George? Yeah, he fell off in the last month but he was the complementary RH hitter needed to balance the lefty-heavy lineup. Plus, there’s a reason why Ca$hMoney wanted him to eventually take over RF for Bobby.
Really guys, don’t be so quick to just dump people without any thought-processing.
Cashman isn’t bring back Matsui or Damon and IMO if they were there would already be talk of a short term deal so in essence we know that the Yankees OFers are gone after this season.
Matsui, Damon and Nady aren’t going to be back any anybody at this point it seems is only going to be a stop gap in CF for this season with Austin Jackson getting his shot in 2010.
Since Swisher is going for awhile they should make him the RF so when they bring up AJAX the only have LF to fill next season instead of a whole OF and this way it makes some room for the Yankees to get Teixeira now.
Posada will take over the DH spot once Matsui is gone and that were he will finish out his career while also getting some spot starts catching as well.
Peter said: “I’m begging people, stop advocating putting Joba in the bullpen. You’re just showing you know zippo about the game when you do that. He was just about the best starter in the AL when he was in the rotation last season.”
LOL, Steve Phillips never stops advocating for Joba in the pen. Which probably explains why he works for ESPN now rather than an MLB team.
Actually, E-Man, I think Pete’s point was Joba is so good that putting him in the pen is ridiculous too.
OK … you’re right. Let’s put CC, Burnett AND Joba in the bullpen. Bring ‘em all in for the 5th, 6th & 7th innings, every day, before Melancon comes in to set up Mo for the close.
And Coke, Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves & Ponson can start. Better yet, let’s trade for Papelbon, Putz & K-Rod so we can convert them to starters. After all Hughes & Kennedy can’t pitch and Ponson would be drunk on his third chance with the team. Then convert Jeter to a CF, Posada to a 1B, move A-Rod to SS, trade Cano & Damon for Ken Griffey Jr in LF, sign Manny to DH & convert Matsui to a bullpen catcher. Don’t worry if the outfield’s a little weak … if Gardner can’t make the difference, Bernie could make a comeback and save the day.
Sorry E-Man … that rant was actually directed at some members of the general audience and not you. Still, maybe another way to put it would be like this: Joba in the ‘pen is a little like hunting three sheep per game with an AK-47 and a 120-bullet (120-pitch) clip. Sure it’s fun, but is it really the best use of your weapon and all that ammunition?
Ansky – What is the best use of an AK-47? Actually don’t answer that.
Let’s just be happy. We have a great rotation. We’ll add a cheap bat. Go Yanks.
We aren’t getting Tex. Get over it people. Yes, it makes sense, but even the Yankees have limits to their pockets. I do think we have a chance to get Manny, and that’s something we should definitely consider.
What the team should do:
-Get Pettitte to re-sign for 10 million
-Trade Matsui (Eat some of his salary if you have to)
-Trade Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera for Rick Ankiel
-Sign Manny, 3 years (65 million)
I don’t disagree that it won’t happen Eric but I think it’s a mistake that they aren’t going to go after him.
Nady is going to get some decent coin in arbitration but unless he becomes invaluable he’s done as a Yankee after the 2009 anyways so why not trade him and save on that money now and not take on Mike Cameron and his $10m. Right there that’s a good chunk of what Teixeira’s contract will cost.
I don’t want to move Matsui but if he’s not coming back in 2010 anyways you can find a taker even if it costs the Yankees to eat some of the contract it would give them the room to add Teixeira money wise.
Agreed, Eric. We’re in a pretty good position with pitchers now. Just making a different analogy to make the point a tad more clear.
Where are we trading Matsui, and for who? It’s easy to say “trade this player”, but the issue is moot if you don’t have a concrete plan as to where you trade the player, who you obtain in the deal and how much of his contract to eat.
Coco crisp would be perfect for the yankees. Not too expensive, good d, improved offense over our current duo.
Trade Damon, no Cameron, sign Manny.
I cannot believe someone pointed out that our rotation is now top heavy and we have to get Pettitte….4 out of 5 are studs…that is not good enough for you?
Manny would be a big draw. He could play left and Gardner could leadoff. Do it!
Actually no ANSKY. Pete’s point was as plain as day. I got it. I don’t agree with it. Alot of Yankee fans don’t agree with it. It’s a 50/50 issue. It’s not a fact, It’s an opinion.
Now with that said, I don’t have a problem with him in the rotation. Our bullpen was fine and we need starters. But saying anyone who brings up the debate knows nothing about baseball is pretty ignorant.
And then trying to compare it to Arod coming off the Bench is a bit of a stretch…
Tommy,
What’s your basis for trading Dead-Arm Damon (other than freeing up cash to sign ManRammed)? I think Gardner has a future in NY as a leadoff hitter, but not next year and CERTAINLY not based on 127 ABs and a .283 OBP
Damon is at his most tradeable having had a very solid year offensively. Yes, it would free up cash. And I expect him to offensive numbers to decline next year – sell high.
Gardner started to play much better towards the end of the year. With his speed he just need to get the ball on the ground more consistently.
Pete, if you have a chance. Can you please ask Cashman why he seems to have abandoned his philosophy. He’s sold the idea of being patient, developing pitching from with in (which most aces come from) and the first season his philosophy is tested, he abandons it and takes huge risks in two pitchers who are now signed for ridiculous amounts?
Tommy, you can’t just trade Damon just because he has value, especially when Brett Gardner hasn’t EARNED anything yet.
Yankeefan28, I wouldn’t say Ca$hMoney “abandoned” his plan, but when Carl Pavano has more wins than Phil and IPK COMBINED, you know you gotta upgrade the rotation. Just hope CC and AJ don’t suffer any serious injuries.
- the Yankees have an aging nearly useless defense and an aging nearly useless offense (set in terms of winning chmpionships)
Defense first – those high proced picthers are gonna have their ERAs go UP
- Jeter is of great ustility to the team but he is DONE at SS
- Matsui is DONE in the OF
- Damon is near done – he can’t throw and has often been hampered by feet and legs – i love him but the string is running out on both Jeets and Johnny (THINK BERNIE)
- Posada – I love him – but he is done at C – remember we are talking age and defense.
- Gardner can play CF – Nady is iffy defensively and
- Cano has been as strong 2B and apparently
-Swisher carries a glove
- ARod is better than fine – 3 years maybe longer – only 4 defensive posiitons are better thn avergae and 4 are worse and getting more worse as they age.
They need youthful players who are 5 tool guys — Tex is the only one available — forget Cameron spend the money on 1B and move Swisher to OF and do something about Catcher
The offense at its peak -could not beat Boston, Detroit, Cleveland
– the 2008 offense was worse much less than peak
– being held to less than 3 runs in 30 plus games. There will be little joy in watching Sabbathia Burnett and Joba lose 1-0 3-2.
Now you might say “well, Cano will be much better (let me say I think he will always be a poor OBP — there is no examples of a player his age learning the strike zone and garnering the ability to be patient)– the hope is he hits for more power and therefore is low OBP accounts for more production — you might trade him at some point; Posada and Matsui might make a heck of a difference – if you can get them at bats — one might replace Giambi his OBP and RBIs and they can play and stay healthy. Both are clasy players but the string is nearly plyed out. If Posada can have an avergae return – we can call it a miracle year for Yankees – they need posiiton players for 2010-2011 -2012. With the players under contract they are not going to have the offense they need if they stay under this $200M concept. Pay Tex and Take Damon, Nagy, off the books in 2010 and matsui Posada in 1011, Jeter in 2012 after he gets his 300 hits. The core wil be the P and Arod, Tex, Gradner or his replacement, Cano or his replacement.
Maybe Hughes IPK Veras someone is available for a trade for some briliant young 23 yr old everyday player under contract at $600K – maybe that is the right deal — but there are few Tex equivalents in the league at any price
They need to backup and eventually replace Mo even with th epotential rotation. maybe that is Joba — although it is argued here and elsehele that Paplebonning him is a waste fof atrater talent and innings.
So don’t trade for Cameron and use the 2 young guys to platoon – defense might be a tad better and offense approximately the same. Then do not sign Petitte and use the roster to fill the 5th starter spot. Savings is $20 million which goes to Tex. Bottom line – offense is better, defense is better (Tex at first is the big difference) and pitching … might suffer a little. Petitte would be better than in ’08 and still would be an innings eater. But a committee of 4 or so young guys traveling between Scranton and the Bronx should give the Yankees what they need from the 5th spot.