Different paths could be taken
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 16, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Here’s what I think will happen:
The Yankees will sign Andy Pettitte, trade for Mike Cameron, find a bench guy or two in January and there’s your team.
But …
Let’s say Pettitte doesn’t want a pay cut and the Yankees can’t come to terms with the Brewers for Cameron. What then?
As of right now, they have approximately $180 million spent. About $172 million is committed to 15 players give or take what Brian Bruney, Chien-Ming Wang and Xavier Nady get. The other 10 spots will cost $6 million or so to fill.
Would the Yankees sign another free-agent starter or try and add a bat? Or just stand pat?
Forget about Mark Teixeira. It’s obvious he is going to get a long-term deal from the Angels, Orioles or Red Sox.
Manny Ramirez is a great name to talk about because the pros and cons are so dramatic. But if the Yankees are serious about getting younger, less expensive, better defensively and more team-oriented, how do you justify signing Manny?
Adam Dunn? Bring back Jason Giambi? Bobby Abreu for a year? There are still possibilities out there.
I think when it’s all said and done, it’ll be Pettitte and Cameron. But it’s not all said and done yet.
I don’t like that path. Adding a solid hitter behind ARod will give him better pitches to hit. Cameron isn’t that great, I hope they pick up a big bat and forget about him/Petitte.
a healthy and productive damon is the key. if he gets on base, we will be more than fine with the lineup we have now.
Sign Manny to a two year deal or sign Adam Dunn. You can’t continue to get younger at every position all the time. You still need veterans. Signing either of these players wouldn’t halt the development of any prospects. Damon leaves next year and hopefully Jackson slides into center by then.
The pitching has been the major weakness but shouldn’t be anymore. However now the offense isn’t looking to great. So instead of losing games 8-7 they now will be losing them 4-3. The lineup needs some pop. Either of them two will provide it. I expect Matsui and Posada to be healthy but neither of them are true long ball threats.
If the difference of winning it all and not is having to put up with someone like Manny, show me where to sign. And personally I don’t see anything putting a bigger smile on his face than sticking it to the Red Sox and beating them.
Peter:
please tell me Derrick Lowe will not sign with the Yankees. In either of the above scenarios you mentioned.
?
Just no to Manny.
I would be fine with Pettitte/Cameron.
I would obviously be fine with Teixeira although I too believe there’s only a remote chance of us getting him.
No, no, no Manny.
The Yanks can’t afford a slow start at the new stadium. They’re gonna get a big bat.
You say how do you justify Manny if the Yankees are concentrating on Defense. Then you list 3 truly horrible defenders as possibilities.
Mark Teixeira is still an option. There is roster flexibility with Nady/Swisher/Igawa/Damon/Matsui to free up between 8-15 million dollars. In that instance, signing Teixeira could still put them under the 200M payroll.
Dunn? Can’t play defense but is young and cheap.
Abreu? Isn’t young and can’t play defense.
Giambi? Can’t play defense and isn’t young.
At least Manny can play a semblance of defense and he’s a better hitter than all of the above. As for being a good teammate, nobody usually complains when you’re driving in 120 runs a year.
It’s still my contention however that if the Sox sign Teixeira the Yankees will sign Manny.
I don’t see Bobby A. coming back. Giambi isn’t the threat he used to be; having him as a benchboy might be nice for dugout conversations but few pitchers are scared of him anymore. Dunn, I’m not convinced he’s much better.
I’ve got mixed feelings about Andy. He’d be good for 10 mil. as an innings eater, and I’m sure he’d be effective sometimes. But I wouldn’t be surprised if his arm started tiring come late August. I’d rather we snagged Sheets for 2 years, if he’d take it.
I’m in the “A-Rod Needs a Solid Hitter Behind Him” camp. Manny isn’t the answer, not in this town, not in that clubhouse. Weird to say this, but I think it’s a small shame the Yanks don’t just bite the bullet and get Tex. Yeah yeah, I know, not gonna happen. But THAT would be a killer lineup, and it almost (almost!) wouldn’t matter if we had a centerfield platoon….
Yes, the Yanks are serious about being team oriented, getting better defensively, etc. But they are most serious about one thing above all — winning. While I personally don’t like Manny as a person for all the antics he pulled in Boston last year, I do think he would do his job (and do it well) in NY. Hopefully, he has eaten a piece of humble pie this off-season. Manny seems to thrive on toying with the public’s perception of him, and I can picture him being a model citizen in the Bronx next season if only to prove everyone who said he’s be a terrible teammate wrong.
GET MANNY!!
From a fan blog something to think about.
“Over the past four years, Mark Teixeira has averaged 34 homers and 120 RBI with a .417 OBP.
That’s great.
Adam Dunn, on the other hand, has averaged 40 homers and 100 RBI with a .386 OBP.
That’s really, really good.”
I mean I’m just saying 40 HR/100 RBI a bit of the knack for GW hits. I’d think about it.
sorry, i just dont want cameron
Why so quick to rule out Mark Teixeira?
The Yankees can easily offer him 10 yrs at 200 mil. They will probably have to progressively increase the salary over some years so they dont overload on contracts in 2009 and 2010. But I dont think it should be dismissed out of hand as easily as you do Mr. Peter.
Example of my idea:
2009 15 mil, 2010 15 mil, 2011 20 mil, 2012 20 mil, 2013 25 mil, 2014 30 mil, 2015 25 mil, 2016 20 mil, 2017 15 mil, 2018 15 mil.
Im sure they can work it out better than I. But it’s not so unbelievable, in particular if they dont take back Pettitte and dont get Cameron.
Given the Yankees sign/acquire Petitte and Cameron, A fairly conservative analysis of the team (Jeter, Matsui continue to decline; Cano, Sisher revert to form of 2 and 3 years ago; rest of offense moves the mean) indicates it should score about 840 runs. A similar (less rigorous, still consrvative) analysis indicates that this team should surrender about 665 runs. A Pythagoren comparison predicts 98 vicories.
im good with that. a much improved team i say.
i say a healthy and productive matsui is the key, batting behind arod.
“Forget about Mark Teixeira.”
GLADLY!
“I think when it’s all said and done, it’ll be Pettitte and Cameron. But it’s not all said and done yet.”
Though I’m not high on Pettitte I could live with it, especially if it’s a one year cheapie and he’s our 4th or 5th starter.
Thread transfer:
Sign Tex reasons:
1- Defense at first
2- High character guy keeping us from going Manny
3- Great patient 3 hole hitter
4- Long term dependable guy at key Yankee position
5- Power and average
6- Helps win now philosophy going into new stadium
7- Gives George a better shot at another ring before he checks out
8- Another switch hitter (3) in line up and 4 if we keep Melky
9- Big bat to assist in 3 yr win window
10-Keep Boras from controlling market
11-Stick in Gammons face
13-Stick it in all anti Yankees fans faces
14-Keep from Red Sox
Don’t sign Tex reasons:
1- Too long of a commitment
2- Too much payroll in 2009
3- Because thats what we got Swisher for
4- Keep first base open for Posada,Jeter and anyone else who can’t play another position
Does this make sense?
1st base: Nick Johnson
RF: Nick Swisher
CF: Gardner and Damon
LF: Damon and Nady
Nick Johnson provides a #3 hitter, in front of Arod and provides decent defense. And we don’t have to commit to Manny. roster/lineup fixed.
Kay saying not to get Manny because he’s not a Yankee type of player. All of a sudden it would be okay to have long hair/facial.
Disagree with Kay. I never got caught up in the whole no long hair Yankee rule. It’s one of dumbest rules. Why can’t a player have long/facial hair? This isn’t corporate America it’s baseball/entertainment.
we’re not getting Tex.
“Kay saying not to get Manny because he’s not a Yankee type of player. All of a sudden it would be okay to have long hair/facial.
Disagree with Kay. I never got caught up in the whole no long hair Yankee rule. It’s one of dumbest rules. Why can’t a player have long/facial hair? This isn’t corporate America it’s baseball/entertainment”
I like the rule.
“I’m in the “A-Rod Needs a Solid Hitter Behind Him” camp.”
This whole camp is just really, really, silly. A-Rod is one of the best hitters in the game. Anybody you put behind him isn’t going to “protect” him.
A-Rod is the reason other guys in the lineup get pitched to. You don’t want to walk the guys in FRONT of A-Rod and have A-Rod come up with men on base.
It’s just incredibly silly that so many people think A-Rod needs a worst hitter behind him to protect him in the lineup.
“I like the rule.”
I actually hate that rule.
“Forget about Mark Teixeira.”
done.
Why the hell isn’t Dunn on this team yet?
Everyone needs to shut up about Manny. No.
pete if your comfortable as matsui as your 3 hitter,you better prey he stay healthy. if there no room for mark t or manny, then there no room for dunn or abreu
yankees ray i like your thinking, im gonna use it elsewhere:
to jump off this bridge or not too, hmmmmmm
reasons to do it:
1) it would be a rush!
2) chicks would really dig me when i tell them about it and show them the scar
reasons not to do it:
1) id probably die
its a no-brainer, 2 to 1!
It’s really George’s rule. It’s not like they had that rule for the whole 100+ years the Yankees have been around.
“I like the rule.”
Me too.
vinny-b, Cashman was pretty clear that he didn’t get Swisher to play the outfield. He came right out and said that.
Just sayin
“Nick Johnson provides a #3 hitter, in front of Arod and provides decent defense. ”
that’s what i have been preaching. injuries or no injuries, Johnson is our ideal #3 hitter.
Want to know how to justify a Manny signing? He’s one of the greatest hitters in baseball history and would take a gigantic amount of pressure off of Alex Rodriguez who could carry the Yankees to a World Series because of his clutch hitting.
Like him or not, THAT’S how you justify it.
Actually I have to agree with Ray. Arod does not need protection. Obviously the fat one in Boston does since his numbers went to hell in a handbasket when his boy Manny left town. But Arod does not.
“It’s just incredibly silly that so many people think A-Rod needs a worst hitter behind him to protect him in the lineup.”
except if you do sign Manny, you have a better hitter behind ARod.
If Manny wants to bop his way up the record books and he has no other offers, he’ll cut his hair and shave his face. What’s so hard to understand?
The corporate look is nice, and the rules aren’t unreasonable. But this is a baseball team, not a monastery. Rules were meant to be relaxed. And they already have been.
I’ve yet to see a Yankee official say they’re not going to pursue Manny because they don’t think he’ll cut his hair. Did Kay actually say that he doesn’t think Manny will fit because he won’t cut his hair? As far as I know, the only people who refuse to cut their hair are Rastafarians. Is Manny a Rastafarian? If he is, that’s so cool.
“SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Mike Cameron for Melky Cabrera deal is on the backburner for now. Still, he says the Brewers agreed to take Kei Igawa and pay a small amount of the $12MM he’s owed. That amount is not enough for the Yankees, currently.”
I am of the opinion that the Yankees should do everything in their power to rid themselves of Igawa.
man the nick johnson crowd will never go away
How NOT to justify a Manny signing – if your travelling secretary doesn’t pony up tickets, he could end up looking up at the sky. And if Manny decides he needs a day off, Arod’s on his own anyway…
“SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Mike Cameron for Melky Cabrera deal is on the backburner for now. Still, he says *the Brewers agreed to take Kei Igawa and pay a small amount of the $12MM he’s owed. That amount is not enough for the Yankees, currently*.”
LOL
I hate the facial hair rule. These are grown men, if they want to have a beard they should be allowed. Just ridiculous.
Trevor
December 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Kay saying not to get Manny because he’s not a Yankee type of player. All of a sudden it would be okay to have long hair/facial.
Disagree with Kay. I never got caught up in the whole no long hair Yankee rule. It’s one of dumbest rules. Why can’t a player have long/facial hair? This isn’t corporate America it’s baseball/entertainment.
—
On that note would anyone else like to see us break tradition and wear our navy blue shirts on the road from time to time? You would think they would go that route and sell more jerseys. That would help cover the higher 2009 payroll
how is it we need another 1Bman and LH bat when we already have a switch hitting 1B and a Lefty DH.
or you were just counting on nick to miss his usual 60 games where it wouldnt make any difference?
At least Manny can play a semblance of defense and he’s a better hitter than all of the above. As for being a good teammate, nobody usually complains when you’re driving in 120 runs a year.
———————————————————–
Manny is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game.
Funny, seems not too long along a whole team complained about Manny despite the fact he was on pace for 110 RBIs at the time.
Damon
Jeter
Nick Johnson
Arod
Matsui
Cano
Posada
Nady
Swisher
this is a solid lineup. With the NYY pitching staff in order, willing to go to war with this lineup.
and if Nick Johnson were to get injured, you pick up a bat before the trade deadline.
“except if you do sign Manny, you have a better hitter behind ARod.”
Turntwo,
I agree with this. A lot of people who say A-Rod needs protection don’t want to sign Manny however. I still don’t think A-Rod needs protection. I’d like to see them sign Manny just for the boost he’d add to the lineup.
“I mean I’m just saying 40 HR/100 RBI a bit of the knack for GW hits. I’d think about it.”
One thing though, Dunn would bring about 200 strikeouts to the lineup and he is a horrible fielder. Whereas Tex is a gold glove caliber fielder.
Bringing Dunn to the lineup with Cameron and Swisher would saddle the Yankees with 500 strikeouts in the lineup, and bring in three hitters whose .OBP is tied almost strictly to walks.
nick johnson is not an option. stop it.
Boras’s lip server is on WFAN right now..
I think Manny not cutting his hair would be the LEAST of the Yankees worries. The fans in the Bronx not finding humor in Manny refusing to hustle, not finding humor in Manny laughing on his way into the dugout when he misses a ball in the outfield or badly botches a play, Manny saying that not winning the world series is no big deal – it’s only a game, Manny needing to use the outfield in the new stadium as a urinal, Manny faking injuries if he decides it’s time for a day off – those things might be a little more irksome than Manny not cutting his hair, though I agree that Manny with his hideous locks really takes the whole team image down fifty notches.
Yankees Ray-
The Yankees did use to have home and away caps. Granted, it was in was 1910 and 1911.
1910 home cap: http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....26.1164740
1910 away cap: http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....26.1164740
Cameron is not the answer for the offense…I hope your wrong Pete..
“Manny is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game.
Funny, seems not too long along a whole team complained about Manny despite the fact he was on pace for 110 RBIs at the time.”
Sure, he’s one of the worst outfielders in the game. He’s still better than Abreu and Dunn, that’s how bad they are in the outfield.
Also, I didn’t hear a peep out of anyone on the team the previous 7 years he was in the lineup.
Trade for Jody Guret to be our utility INF
“Manny is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game.”
Huh. So Manny would be an upgrade over Bobby Abreu on both sides of the ball?
“jay destro
December 16th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
man the nick johnson crowd will never go away”
nope.
YankeeRay
December 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Trevor
December 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Kay saying not to get Manny because he’s not a Yankee type of player. All of a sudden it would be okay to have long hair/facial.
Disagree with Kay. I never got caught up in the whole no long hair Yankee rule. It’s one of dumbest rules. Why can’t a player have long/facial hair? This isn’t corporate America it’s baseball/entertainment.
—-
On that note would anyone else like to see us break tradition and wear our navy blue shirts on the road from time to time? You would think they would go that route and sell more jerseys. That would help cover the higher 2009 payroll
————————————————————
That would be as bad as putting names on the back of uniforms…home and road.
ESPN says Karl Ravich reporting the Orioles seem to have taken the lead in the Tex sweepstakes. I wonder if he was sobbing a little as he said it.
Even when Manny’s not hustling he moved faster than Giambi..
No Manny! There isn’t enough room even in the new stadium for the combined drama of Manny and Arod.
A deal for Cameron would be nice though. I’d love to get Tex, but that’s not happening. He’s going to Boston and we’ll be facing a lineup that includes Pedroia, Ortiz, Tex, Youk, Bay, and Drew. I’m looking forward to seeing CC shut them down.
“OBP is tied almost strictly to walks.”
isn’t that the only way to have a high obp…besides hits?
Dear John Heyman,
Raul Ibanez >>> Bobby Abreu
sincerely,
Me
“Funny, seems not too long along a whole team complained about Manny despite the fact he was on pace for 110 RBIs at the time.”
But what do they know, right Bob? THESE are the people who have the real pulse on Manny, right here! Team player, team shmayer! Just think about all those hits he’ll get when he feels like playing! WOOOOOO.
When you have two above-average defensive center fielders, why do you want to pay $10 million to get another one? Reasons:
–team is now too young
– on hot days Cameron can create a breeze striking out
–Milwaukee doesn’t get enough of our revenue sharing and luxury tax dollars already
– Cameron looks the part of a major leaguer. Not so sure 5′10′ Gardner and chunky Melky do.
– We’ve already wasted $46 million on Igawa. What’s another $10 mill to get rid of him?
Well, I convinced myself. Forget about Tex. Gotta get Cameron
Call me crazy but I love Ramirez. I can’t help it he has I have always found him endlessly amusing as well as admiring the fact that he is by far the best hitting right hander in baseball. He would provide the best protection to Arod. He is a hitting savant – he could teach his friend Alex to lighten up a little!
“ESPN says Karl Ravich reporting the Orioles seem to have taken the lead in the Tex sweepstakes”
when did Karl Ravich become a reporter?
will wait for Buster Onley.
Nick Johnson has been injured almost every season for the past few seasons, why bother? I know he was fun to watch when he was here, but it’s over. Move on.
“ESPN says Karl Ravich reporting the Orioles seem to have taken the lead in the Tex sweepstakes. I wonder if he was sobbing a little as he said it.”
I heard the same thing on WEEI. Some of the guys are convinced the Sux are going to swoop in at the last minute and offer the best money, one of them thinks that Boras is going to try to package Veritek and Teixeira as a package.
Call me crazy but why do I feel the Nats are after both Manny/Tex ?
i’ve been saying for days that the O’s had no choice but to go all-in here. at the very least, the O’s HAVE TO outbid the nats. if he goes to boston, ny or aola at least hes out of thier market, but no question they cant allow him in DC for the next 8 years.
I do not understand the big fuzz about getting Cameron and not getting TEX or Ramirez. This is what I mean:
Cameron 10M/yr + Deal Matsui or Damon 13M/yr = 23M/yr
For 23M/yr the Yanks could probably get TEX or Manny and have someone to protect AROD and give the Yanks some pop.
Jeter or Gardner could hit leadoff, and so forth.
Is that so difficult to accomplish?
Comments…
dana,
You’re going to get flamed en masse pretty soon. But you’re not the only one who feels the way you do.
Maybe if we didn’t unnecessarily bid against ourselves for a player who didn’t want to be here (unless he got $60 million more than the next highest team), then we just might have had enough money to get us what this team really needs— Teixeria, a big bat to protect A-Rod.
Just another example of Yankee stupidity with money.
YankeeRay-
Way back in 1910 the Yankees did have “home” and “away” caps (or so the MLB dot com store tells me).
here’s the 1910 home hat:
http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....26.1164740
Pete you keep stating that the Yanks can’t get Teixeira. The people asking for this isn’t as nuts you seem to think. They could defer his money in the first year. Damon and Matsui come off the books next year, so they could figure a way to make it work.
I just don’t think giving him a 10 year deal is smart. It’d be one thing if he were 25, but having him till he’s almost 40 is just dumb.
People will mention A-Rod, but A-Rod has a value above just playing baseball. The Yanks will get extra revenue when A-Rod is chasing 600 home runs, then 700 home runs, and ultimately the home run record. That revenue is also a guarantee of sorts, if the worst case scenario happens and the Yanks are a 3rd place team for the next few years. If he does break the HR record, he’ll be like Ruth and Mantle, a person the Yanks will continue to make money off of, well after he’s dead.
You don’t get that with Teixeira. He’s not worth the money or the years.
One thing to consider about payroll flexability, with the economy as bad as it is right now, some teams might not be able to keep players making a lot of money. What if Philly isn’t good next year, their fan base doesn’t show, and they can’t afford to pay Ryan Howard. He made 10 million in 2008, he’ll get a considerable raise in 2009.
I’m not saying that is going to happen, but payroll flexability allows the Yanks to seize on oppurtunities.
Manny on the Yanks? The one plus is that A-Rod would be unstoppable. But, it’d drive Girardi crazy and a figure like that has a potential of ripping a locker-room apart. You think A-Rod is challenging? He’d be Torre compared to Manny. Pete wisely asked the question, what’s to stop him from dogging it? Nothing. Bad move.
I say Dunn. He’s younger and cheaper.
A trade for Joey Votto would be swell!
Nady, Miranda, Kennedy, reliever for Votto & Arroyo (bring back as a salary dump)
If you like Swisher’s D over Votto, you put him in RF, or vice versa…
Plus, you have your three hole hitter
“when did Karl Ravich become a reporter?”
He’s doing double-duty… seems to me that Ravich is desperatley trying to avoid being laid-off (like the rest of us).
dana,
All rational people want Manny and realize that our lineup right now is not scaring anybody. Manny on a 3 yr deal is a bargain.
Hideki Matsui has been a heck of a player, and is a credit to his profession, for sure. But, you gotta think that his body is breaking down rapidly, and that he’s bound for the DL at some point. I wish the Yanks had Giambi available for when it happens. Giambi has gotten past his problems of recent years, he’s by all acounts a great guy in the clubhouse, and still produces with the bat.
That Yankee 1910 cap are red sox colors.
“Though I’m not high on Pettitte…”
‘Pettitte’ wouldn’t be my first guess.
Tom,
Those hats don’t really count… they’re BJF (Before Julio Franco)
On that note would anyone else like to see us break tradition and wear our navy blue shirts on the road from time to time? You would think they would go that route and sell more jerseys. That would help cover the higher 2009 payroll
——————————————————————————————
That would be as bad as putting names on the back of uniforms…home and road.
—
No names on unis. Do you know why teams didn’t put names on backs of jerseys? So they could sell more programs so the fans knew who the players were. This is needed more nowadays with so much team turnover. lol
Peter:
please tell me Derrick Lowe will not sign with the Yankees. In either of the above scenarios you mentioned.
?
Manny is a clubhouse implosion waiting to happen.
“Nick Johnson provides a #3 hitter, in front of Arod and provides decent defense”
Nick Johnson cannot stay healthy and he is not the caliber of a number three hitter.
There’s a lot of reasons not to sign Manny Ramirez. But for those who say A-Rod doesn’t need protection, peruse the lineup and ask yourself, who hits in front of A-Rod?
Jorge Posada, a 37-year old catcher fresh off of a bum shoulder? Robinson Cano? Certainly not.
The obvious answer would be Matsui, because you can’t count on his health either.
Ramirez is a far superior hitter to any of those players.
Look, the Yankees made a smart move by not resigning Abreu because he’s looking for a three-year deal – and locking him up for that would be absurd.
But his patient bat will be sorely missed in front of A-Rod if the current lineup isn’t changed.
There is no rush to trading Cameron. There are still offensive pieces left on the board and a Cameron move right this minute is short sighted and takes the Yanks out of other potential deals.
If the Yankees decide Manny, Tex or Dunn are worth the contract, someone (most likely Nady) would have to be traded. Damon seems to have helped the Yanks too much in recruiting to be on the block. Swisher, I think, is the attitude change the front office (and fans like me) thinks this team needs. You can’t trade Matsui until he’s proven he’s healthy…so that leaves Nady.
If the Yankees sign a big hitter, Nady may end up being dealt for the answer in CF.
It’s smart to sit back and wait and see what develops.
From all accounts Tex is getting big money and long years and Manny and Dunn are getting the shaft.
Manny or Dunn would upgrade the offense significantly and it would be dumb to pass them up for Cameron just yet.
What Cashman should be doing is finding out what Nady can bring back in a trade (which I’m sure he has an idea) and if it’s anything really good that fills a hole now and in the future, trade Nady and sign one of the 3 big hitters left on the board.
Ravech has had his fingers all over this Tex story. He seems to be the point man on the whole deal.
Cameron 10M/yr + Deal Matsui or Damon 13M/yr = 23M/yr
For 23M/yr the Yanks could probably get TEX or Manny and have someone to protect AROD and give the Yanks some pop.
Jeter or Gardner could hit leadoff, and so forth.
Is that so difficult to accomplish?
Wow, you all are trying to change the rules are ya?
BS. It is the Yankee way, always has been and always will be. Manny ain’t showing up in dreads and his nasty beard.
The caveat is: if you want to play for the Yankees, you comply by this rule or you don’t sign with us for the big bucks. Simple as that.
They didn’t change the rules for Don Mattingly, they aren’t changing it for Manny Ramirez.
“On that note would anyone else like to see us break tradition and wear our navy blue shirts on the road from time to time? You would think they would go that route and sell more jerseys. That would help cover the higher 2009 payroll”
no thank you.
btw, the Chicago Cubs are dumb for doing it.
from the last thread.
Trade Wang?!! We must be bored on this blog. Cashman better get us a center fielder before we have people wanting to trade C.C. before his first pitch in pinstripes.
Yankee Ray good breakdown.
Im on the NO ON TEX group. Hes not a superstar to get superstar years and money. Now if it was Pujols, id say go for it. The offers are now at 8 years. We suffered a 7 year contract of Giambi’s that at the time was one of the most feared hitters in the game. I compare Tex to Tino. Great bat not elite, great defense but when the offense fades in 4 years we’ll be stuck with a 20 + mill mienkjljitz or Tino’s final season. Not worth it.
Read my lips: the Yankees will NOT sign Teixera. Stop posting about it, for god’s sakes. This is not a video game; teams do not use “get the biggest bats, no matter the cost!” as a viable strategy for success.
Let it go people.
“All rational people want Manny?” Really? Wow, and I thought you could sign a guy to dog it in the outfield and refuse to run out fly balls for a lot less money. Maybe even one that would use a bathroom when needed, keep his hands off old men, and generally behave like a human being. Just being irrational, I guess.
A trade for Joey Votto would be swell!
Nady, Miranda, Kennedy, reliever for Votto & Arroyo (bring back as a salary dump)
If you like Swisher’s D over Votto, you put him in RF, or vice versa…
Plus, you have your three hole hitter
————————————————————-
Righhhhhhht.
Please explain to me why on earth the Reds would trade Votto who is one of the best young players in the game. Especially for that garbage package you offered.
“I agree with this. A lot of people who say A-Rod needs protection don’t want to sign Manny however. I still don’t think A-Rod needs protection. I’d like to see them sign Manny just for the boost he’d add to the lineup.”
exactly. forget about ARod needing protection… i dont buy into that.
just think of how many HRs and RBIs sit there in the middle of an order with those 2 of probably the 3 best RH hitters in the game on one team (with Pujols being the other).
i dont care if you like Manny or not; you pair those two together in a middle of a lineup with the pitching staff thats now currently in place, and thats potential dominance.
you gotta think between the O’s and Nats as far as tex is concerned, the possession arrow is pointing to balt. DC has to outbid the O’s, equal dollars and he’s an oriole.
but then as soon as it looks like the O’s might have the inside track, the yankees and sox have to reevaluate whether they will step aside and allow tex to land in thier division. something tells both ny and bos will live with tex in baltimore as long as he dosnt end up with the empire/nation.
fascinating dynamics working here. all the east coast teams other than dc probably would have preferred he stay in cali but have to react to the possibility of him ending up in thier market or division.
ESPN does a lot of multi-tasking these days.
Stephen A. Smith is an NBA reporter and jack of all trades analyst.
Buster Olney is an MLB inside and MLB analyst.
John Saunders is a commentator, anchor, and NFL analyst.
Michael Smith is an insider, reporter, and analyst.
All of the baseball people for the most part are analyst/insider hybrids.
I agree.
The 1910 away hat is not so bad though:
http://shop.mlb.com/product/in.....26.1164740
I wonder about what the Orioles are thinking on Teixeira. With him, they are 3-5 years from possibly contending. Without him, they are 3-5 years from possibly contending (it’s the pitching, stupid!).
Is it an attendance thing??? Does Angelos think people will show up to see this team win 77-81 games or so anymore than they are now. O’s drew 40K twelve times last year. Yankees (5), Boston (5) were 10 of those (Opening Day and a game vs. the Pirates were the other 2). Does he think they get a sniff of 40K in none Bos/NYY games or higher TV ratings with Teixeira???
Adam Dunn makes absolutely no sense. He’s Jason Giambi for more money. And another year of Giambi? no thanks.
Abreu at a year or two OR Manny at a year or two. Those are our best options. Abreu probably won’t do less than three and Manny isn’t going to have any options.
So the winner is Manny.
Righhhhhhht.
Please explain to me why on earth the Reds would trade Votto who is one of the best young players in the game. Especially for that garbage package you offered.
__________
They have a 1B prospect on the cusp of the major leagues, they are looking for a right handed bat as evidenced by their potential trade for dye, the also need a reliever…
They can have Hughes if they like…
I think getting a 3 hole hitter is a priority…
I realize that Manny is the best possible protection for Arod, but he’s not worth the drama. First off, he would have to cut his hair and shave. Secondly, he and Girardi would clash. Girardi benched Cano for not trying hard enough; what do you think he’ll do to Manny? Don’t let those last two months with the Dodgers fool you – he was playing for contract. Once he gets his money, there’s nothing the Yankees can do to make him hustle. Lastly, he has said how much he loves the fact that he can go out to eat in LA and not be noticed by fans. In NY, he will get plenty (unwanted) attention.
In addition to the Orioles, “Pavano has been linked to the Blue Jays, Marlins, and Red Sox.” per mlbtr
Karl Ravech is, most likely, getting his news from Gammons, who seems to be sitting shivah ever since the Yankees signed CC.
And Girardi is expendable.
Adam Dunn is a little better than Giambi, he atleast to LF
Get Wiggington ($4M) and plug him at first, put Swischer in LF, Damon in CF and Nady in RF. Trade Matsui(-13M) and then get Manny $23M for DH and you have incredible power on that lineup.
“Adam Dunn makes absolutely no sense. He’s Jason Giambi for more money. And another year of Giambi? no thanks.”
He’s also Giambi plus another 100 strikeouts.
NO THANKS.
Dana, what you say about Manny is also true. But he has a darker side and a lot of baggage and issues. To people who haven’t observed him a lot, he may seem like a good deal. To people like me who have watched the Boston team almost as much as the Yankees since I live in their back yard and who have watched his antics since he ended up in Boston (and try asking Boston fans also as well as paying attention to what his teammates did when he wanted out) we’re a little more acquainted with the down sides of Manny. Best I can say is that his talent and humorous side aren’t always the side that Manny choses to showcase. When he doesn’t get his way, you won’t see either of those things.
I remember when A-Rod opted out, Ravech was the first one on SportsCenter to call in and analyze it.
The other guys were not there because the Rockies/Sox game was still going on, so Ravech was giving his opinon on what it means for the Yankees, where he will go etc.
God that was a great night…. Arod upstaged the Sox world series.
“Call me crazy but why do I feel the Nats are after both Manny/Tex ?”
Bad chili???
I couldn’t even say it w/o laughing
he atleast can hit to LF and would demolish a ball off his bat in any park 40 times a season.
Brandon (SHOW SHEETS THE MONEEEEEY !, CC & AJ are Yankees!)…”Don’t trade Robi !”
December 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
“I like the rule.”
I actually hate that rule.
———–
Love the rule.
MANNY! MANNY! MANNY!
JackJ,
It took Girardi almost the entire season to address the Cano/Melky issue.
When people talk about Manny providing protection to ARod, you do realize that Manny is right handed, no? So if Cashman called up Steve Howe, had a huge party, and in his daze made the horrible decision to signing Manny, then Manny would not be batting adjacent to A Rod in the line up. It would still be Matsui or Nady on deck after A Rod.
Just wanted to clear that up. I am sure people realize this, though.
“how is it we need another 1Bman and LH bat when we already have a switch hitting 1B and a Lefty DH.”
Our 1B hit 219 last year and our DH has had 2 recent knee surgeries. However,I am keeping my fingers crossed.
the O’s probably wanted to act intersted in tex but let him stay an angel. but as soon as dc became the leading bidder, the O’s had no choice to outbid them, even if it meant offering more than the yankees or sox were going to. that raised the bar one notch, now the question is whether boros can get the yankees or sox to react to keep tex out of the AL East and launch the bidding war up into arod territory.
i say is stops here and tex goes home to baltimore.
“Bad chili???”
Theodore Lerner is not poor. The guy is one of the wealthiest owners in baseball, he is a Billonaire
ever heard of Lerner Enterprises ?
Re-Sign Giambi….put him behind ARod.8 mil ought to do it.
E-Man,
All managers/coaches are expendable. Players win titles.
sheffield and a-rod were stacked in the lineup together, that was fine. they were both righty
“He’s also Giambi plus another 100 strikeouts.
NO THANKS.”
Yeah.. 100 more K’s, 8 more HR’s for about 10 million more dollars.
Pass.
“MANNY! MANNY! MANNY!”
What you said ?
“Call me crazy but why do I feel the Nats are after both Manny/Tex ?”
Nats are 4 sale?
Didnt know that Manny and Tex wanted to be partners in owning a Big League team.
sign mannyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do it and now this lineup needs a clutch hitter and he will make the who lineup better and girardi just has to get a long with manny cuz hes getting paid to manage the club and you imagine arod and manny behind wat team this could be i could b better then ortiz and manny combination
Don,
I know. Some people here don’t though.
tarheelyank even if you put the dollars they’re paying matsui aside, you’re suggesting they bring in nick johnson to cover thier injury risk in matsui?
kinda comical isnt it?
“Yeah.. 100 more K’s, 8 more HR’s for about 10 million more dollars.
Pass.”
10 million more WTF you talking about ? his price range is probably at 10 – 12 per right now. He isn’t a 20 million per player right now. Adam Dunn is dirt cheap right now.
JackJ
NY is more like LA than Boston. In Boston, Red Sox are the biggest celebrities in the state. Good chance Manny might not be the biggest celebrity in his condo if he lived in NYC or in the “it” restaurant on any given night.
“So if Cashman called up Steve Howe”
…the phone would ring eternally.
EMan – True, it did take a season, but I just can’t imagine Manny taking a scolding from Girardi. He’d probably pretend his knee is hurt for a few weeks as payback or something childish like that.
Also.. Cmon, Red Sox/Yankees games would be more enjoyable again.
“E-Man
December 16th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
And Girardi is expendable”
the same for your posts.
“Adam Dunn is dirt cheap right now.”
he also has no place on the Yankees roster to play.
Girardi is on the hot seat, no question.
He must make it to the WS or I get rid of him and let Pena be the manager.
NYY is a brand, and like any brand it has a certain look — in this case a conservative one, with traditional looking unis, suits for travel (I know, some of you are not old enough to remember when flying was civilized and exclusive and you dressed up to do it), no names (in the beginning numbers indicated positions and that was all the ID you needed, plus those unis were going to be re-used by whoever played the position next).
We’ve had some wild and crazy PLAYERS, but as a TEAM the emphasis has been on history. Every time our team flies in in their suits, and takes the field in their traditional unis and clean-cut look, it contributes to long-term brand recognition.
“10 million more WTF you talking about ? his price range is probably at 10 – 12 per right now. He isn’t a 20 million per player right now. Adam Dunn is dirt cheap right now.”
Yeah? And who’s giving Giambi 10 million?
bdog375
December 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
When people talk about Manny providing protection to ARod, you do realize that Manny is right handed, no? So if Cashman called up Steve Howe, had a huge party, and in his daze made the horrible decision to signing Manny, then Manny would not be batting adjacent to A Rod in the line up. It would still be Matsui or Nady on deck after A Rod.
Just wanted to clear that up. I am sure people realize this, though.
—–
This could be the worst post yet. Manny hits righties and lefties. Matsui doesn’t hit lefties well. Nady behind Arod? He’s righty.
Having Manny not behind Arod would make no sense.
ham fighters Save Us Godzilla!!!!!
No, I am not saying that at all. But I would rather spend the money on a switch hitting 1B named Tex then Manny. And keep matsui
JackJ,
His contract has to be performance based. No team is going to give him standard one.
Red Dragons
December 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Girardi is on the hot seat, no question.
He must make it to the WS or I get rid of him and let Pena be the manager.
—–
At that point Donnie will be the manager. If Donnie was the manager now Tex would have signed for free lol.
“Nats are 4 sale?
Didnt know that Manny and Tex wanted to be partners in owning a Big League team.”
You think the Nat’s owner is poor or something, that guy is one of the richest in baseball. He has his enterprise they just haven’t landed a marquee player to sell thier team to the home region fans. They are clearly in 2009 looking to make a splash.
Speaking of rational people being the ones who are wise enough to want Manny, I guess that explains why every team in baseball has ignored him to this point!
Hey Pete, what’s your prediction on whether or not the Yanks will sign Texiera? I don’t think you’ve offered your opinion on that yet.
With the Yankees it is never about fiscal restraints … they talk about it all the time and then the next thing you know you open up the morning papers and they sign another big ticket player … last year was the exception because it would have cost them big money and high end prospects to get Santana. For once they didnt bite.
With Manny it is a trade-off … you know if he is in pinstripes he will start pulling his “Manny being Manny” act. But consider the fact that the Yankees would basically have to implode as a team (either chemistry-wise or injuries) to not make the playoffs (especially in Year 1 of his contract). If that is the case, then consider just how lethal the Yankees are in a short-series now once the playoffs begin. They have added two power arms to the pitching staff (CC and AJ) to go along with Wang and Joba and you have the best 3-4 combo in baseball with Arod and Manny … Arod would see one hittable pitch afer another with Manny waiting behind him.
By adding Manny who is one of the best clutch hitters any of us have ever seen, the Yankees would now truly be built to win (finally) in the post-season and not just over the 162 game schedule.
Pat – Again, true. I don’t think fans would bother him as much as the media. It’s hard for me to pick up a magazine without reading something about Arod and his antics. And if he failed to deliver, the media would no doubt blame him for the lack of a WS ring (along with Arod, of course).
Forgot to add, I think Manny enjoyed embarrassing NL pitchers last year as well.
washington opened a brand spanking new stadium and drew 2.3M attendance. the team really sucked. how much do u think the attendance is going to drop this year if they dont sign some name guy to at least give a face to the franchise and a reason to show up?
the cost to the nats of not signing anybody is going to be pretty high. they got what they always said they needed, a new market and a new stadium, now there are no more excuses for this franchise, compete or die.
they need tex worse than the O’s do.
What about Gary Carter for manager if we get rid of Girardi?
I gotta question the sanity of anyone that says he/she would want Manny on their team. The man QUIT on the Sawx, then blackmailed them to get free of the two remaining years on his contract. No one’s productivity is worth that, and most 64 year old travelling secretaries would agree.
Nick Johnson might help, but what’s the price tag? And he’s only been healthy for three years since 2001.
Pettite plus Cameron or Dunn is most likely end result. Dunn helps more offensively, while Cameron helps more defensively. Dunn is probably comparable to Abreu in RF… which is to say not so good. Dunn makes more sense to me because he’s 29 and that still leave Melky/Gardner for late inning defense and part time CF. If they don’t do Cameron then Damon will have to play quite a bit of CF.
Yeah, Dunn strikes out a lot… he also pounds the long ball with 246 HR the last five years.
Trading Damon would be a bad move. He is VERY clutch and this lineup needs that.
“he also has no place on the Yankees roster to play.”
the LF?
Adam, not to speak for Pete but in case he isn’t around I think it’s safe to say that his belief has been that the Yankees are not going to be big players for Teixeira.
Why would CC leave warm, sunny California the week before Thanksgiving to go to Cleveland of all places to a Cavs game with LeBron James if he wasn’t planning on visiting NY as part of a joint tour and possibly signing?
Tex is the biggest no-brainer I’ve seen in awhile yet Pete writes it off as impossible. He is the perfect 3 hole hitter, switch hitter, patient+high OBP, his numbers as a 3-hole hitter higher than any other spot in the line-up at .310 BA and a .397 OBP. Sure Tex will not come cheap but he is the type of first baseman we have been missing since Tino in his prime. Adam Dunn is a tremendous power-hitter but hes another DH type guy who would be better off never playing the field Tex is a gold-glove guy.
2 options.
1. Trade Nady and replace him with Dunn. More production at the plate and its not like Nady is a gold glover out there.
2. It Arod needs all this protection that everyone keeps talking about. I think he should pitch in half of the annual salary for Manny.
12 mill from Arod
12 from N.Y.Y.
he gets to those 10 year records sooner, championship ring, dont have to worry about all this clutch hitting talk,Manny would take care of that and the media would finally have someone else to go to. Which would leave Arod at peace.
I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t mind signing Damon to a 2 yr extension or something to be the primary LF.
The guy is still one of the top leadoff hitters in the game and has a swing built for the stadium. He is clutch, a playoff performer, and a great clubhouse guy. He helped with the recruitment of CC/AJ.
We have no OFers on the books for next year, why not re-sign Damon?
If the Yankees decide not to go get Manny, who else thinks that Adam Dunn would be a great bat to add to the team? He made 13 million this year and would almost certainly get a raise, but his numbers are eerily similar to Giambi’s, but he’s much younger.
He would (realistically) be able to play the corner OF positions, 1B, and DH. Signing him without trading anyone away would create a musical chairs type of situation where, when he’s playing LF, Damon could move to CF or sit…and when he’s playing RF, Nady could sit. He could also give Matsui and his bad knees a day off every week or so, while also playing a little bit of 1B while having Swisher move to any of the other OF spots, or sitting.
The only reason I could think of for the Yankees to shy away from him would be his similarities to Giambi. If they would only want Dunn for a few years, signing Giambi to a MUCH lower contract would give them more payroll flexibility, but it would also be a compromise, seeing as though Giambi would only be a DH/1B.
What do you guys think?
“I guess that explains why every team in baseball has ignored him to this point!”
Wait until Tex signs and then see if that argument still stands. Boras is smart enough to play one player off the other and every team against each other.
If the Yanks don’t sign Andy and trade for Cameron, I’d vote for them to stand pat for now. Once the season begins, they will find out what their greatest need really is. It might not be starting pitching, if Hughes is terrific (as I expect him to be.) It might not be center field if either Gardner or Melky steps up. It might be catcher, if Posada can’t throw out runners. It might be DH if Matsui’s knees don’t heal right. Or, heaven forbid, a serious injury to some regular.
The point is, the Yanks don’t know for sure what their needs are. The might as well hang onto Melky and $20 million until they know for sure what to trade for.
Might I add that it is absolutely laughable to suggest that we lose both Abreu and Giambis production and all we do acquire Mike Cameron.
Yeah! That is really going to happen.
“What about Gary Carter for manager if we get rid of Girardi?”
thanks again, gary, we’ll get back to you on that….
I don’t think people realize how mediocre this offense really is. Not a single guy in this lineup scares you in the least.
This lineup didn’t even beat up bad pitching last year– as evident by our sub .500 record against the Rangers, Royals, Tigers, Indians, Reds, Pirates etc.
Only going to get worse considering our #3 and #5 hitters are gone… all 50 HRs and 200 RBIs worth.
“Yeah, Dunn strikes out a lot… he also pounds the long ball with 246 HR the last five years.”
206 actually. Still, 41 a year. Hard to believe Dunn is only 10 days older than Ryan Howard. Seems like Dunn’s been around forever.
-Initial post didn’t go through-
Despite what PeteAbr thinks about Manny this team needs a big bat. I would rather we pass on Tex for Manny simply because I HATE LONG TERM CONTRACTS.
Manny for 2-3 years is a steal. If the only obstacle in signing Manny is because he is “dramatic” and Girardi can’t handle that, well the GMAN should be fired.
I actually agree we should hold onto Damon.
He is a good clubhouse leader, decent left fielder, generally stays off the DL, and hits for average…
With a day off here and there, and some time as the DH, he will stay fresh and productive.
“What about Gary Carter for manager if we get rid of Girardi?”
thanks again, gary, we’ll get back to you on that….
——————————————————–
And please stop calling us to ask for the job.
“I gotta question the sanity of anyone that says he/she would want Manny on their team. The man QUIT on the Sawx, then blackmailed them to get free of the two remaining years on his contract. No one’s productivity is worth that, and most 64 year old travelling secretaries would agree.”
You are right, Manny is not a choir boy … was Billy Martin a choir boy during all his managerial stops before he came home to the Yankees? What happened when he did, the Yankees won. Was Reggie Jackson a self-promoting piece of “you know what” and cared more about his own image then fitting into the fabric of the team? You bet he did … but what happened when he came to the Yankees … they won.
I know it would be nice to have our cake and eat it too like we did in the ’90’s when we won with “good guys”, but when Leo Duroucher said, “Nice guys finish last”, he was on to something. A lot “winners” in sports over the years, had very questionable conducts of character … but Manny Ramirez does 2 things incredibly well year after year … he hits like a machine and he wins … he can literally carry a team on his back and lead them to victory. That is very hard to pass up … IMO
“I wonder about what the Orioles are thinking on Teixeira. With him, they are 3-5 years from possibly contending. Without him, they are 3-5 years from possibly contending (it’s the pitching, stupid!).”
I don’t buy the Orioles interest. Their fabase is despondent and hates Angelos. I think this is posturing.
These rumors are leaking to get the Sox and Angels to up the ante.
That said the stories around the o’s interest are purported to be that Angelos has had a near obsession about Tex since he was a high school star in the baltimore area.
I can’t see McPhail making this move as he knows it won’t help the team over the next 3 years. And Angelos has always been more interested in keeping the payroll passable enough to pretend that they are competative but low enough to maximize profits.
Tex is not going to the Nats or the O’s. But he’s using those teams as leverage. Thus, Boston & LAA will feel the need to up their offers to compensate. Pretty much the same thing CC did with the Yanks. You think Boras didn’t take notice of how the CC negotiations went down? Boras clients take the biggest contract. And Boras knows if the Nats or the O’s can offer $160M, he can get $180 or $200 from the Angels, Sox or Yanks.
“and its not like Nady is a gold glover out there.”
It’s exactly like that if the comparison is Dunn.
Bottom line -
Without Tex or Manny, we are still a 3rd place team. Our offense is middle of the pack.
The pitching better be EVERYTHING its talked up to be and the young bullpen arms better be lights out because the offense is going to be very stagnant and infuriating to watch. We have to try and be like the 05 Chi Sox.
There seems to be a notion that there is no way to fit Teixeira into the Yanks’ payroll.
That’s just not true.
Teixeira will probably go for about $5MM – $6MM more than what Pettitte and Cameron will cost combined. That puts the Yanks’ payroll around $205MM. That’s more than reports say the Yanks want to spend, but not a lot more on a percentage basis.
Teixeira gets them about three extra wins. Pettitte and Cameron gets them about the same, if you believe Pettite will pitch better than the Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy/Coke collection they would probably otherwise use.
Teixeira, while not the best hitter in the game, puts up consistently excellent numbers. He’s possibly a better gamble to earn whatever he’s paid than CC over the long haul, given IMO the inherently riskier nature of pitchers than hitters.
The Yanks’ offense will probably decline over the next few years, given the age of Posada and Jeter. Teixeira gives them a consistent hitter they can count on over the next few years.
The best reason I see for not getting him is risk management, given that the Yanks entered into ARod’s mega-deal last year and signed two long term mega-deals with CC and AJ this year.
But IMO he could well be less risky than CC, AJ and Cameron, and it would not surprise me at all if the Yanks are still thinking about it.
It might explain why Andy and Mike aren’t Yankees yet.
Gary Carter? LOL
Where did that come from?
Nick you are very right that Andy Pettitte would not be my number one “rather not have him”!
But let me say this about that. I have my list of wants and don’t wants, but really believe that I do not hold a candle to the brainpower in the Yankee organization. Therefore, any player who is signed by the Yanks becomes my guy as soon as it happens. And that has to include players who are high up on list of “please God no” players.
So far my thoughts and desires have been totally in synch with the Yankees since I wanted both CC and AJ – and am thrilled beyond belief that we have gotten both. BUT – if for any reason the Yankees did not sign Burnett, you can bet your last dollar that you would not ever see me crying like a little baby next season, charting every pitch and coming here like a whining malcontent saying “SEE!!!! WAH WAH WAH.”
Some people here lack the ability to recognize their own limitations on which players the organization really should be going after, and they also lack the maturity to move past decisions they don’t like.
One thing that nobody can ever know for sure is how any player would have worked out. So just because X player, who was so coveted by Y fan, is doing an awesome job for Z team, means NOTHING in terms of what that player would have done in the Bronx.
I can’t stand spoiled little babies who refuse to let things go and need to spend all their time whining and stomping their feet. Sure I don’t want Derek Lowe. But if the Yankees signed him, I’d be the first to welcome him to the Bronx (if you know what I mean.)
Dunn is Giambi expect that he actually hits home runs consistently and drives in runs. We can deal with the strikeouts.
If Gary Carter does a good job managing the Long Island Ducks this year, then I may consider hiring him.
I added one to each argument, and will probably add more. Feel free to add more to either argument.
Sign Tex reasons:
1- Defense at first
2- High character guy keeping us from going Manny
3- Great patient 3 hole hitter
4- Long term dependable guy at key Yankee position
5- Power and average
6- Helps win now philosophy going into new stadium
7- Gives George a better shot at another ring before he checks out
8- Another switch hitter (3) in line up and 4 if we keep Melky
9- Big bat to assist in 3 yr win window
10-Keep Boras from controlling market
11-Stick in Gammons face
13-Stick it in all anti Yankees fans faces
14-Keep from Red Sox for obvious reasons
15-Losing him to sox would raise price on Manny which we will end up paying
Don’t sign Tex reasons:
1- Too long of a commitment
2- Too much payroll in 2009
3- Because thats what we got Swisher for
4- Keep first base open for Posada,Jeter and anyone else who can’t play another position
5- Don’t want to make the rest of the league and fans mad at us for being bullies
Does this make sense?
Getting younger is completely overrated. What teams need is talent, not young guys that stink. If they’re younger or older is irrelevant, as long as they have the talent and desire. How can anyone compare Manny, probably one of the best clutch hitters of all time, to a young player who hasn’t proven himself? Of course, you have to take Manny’s antics into consideration.
I think that the Yankees should sign Dunn, and forget about Pettitte, who’s acting like a big baby. He was terrible last year, not even including his steroid use debacle, and he wants $16m? Forget it. Sign Sheets, or a good place for a younger player as a fifth starter could be Hughes. I would also consider trading Nady, who has 1 year left and is repped by Boras.
I know his stance on Texeira Trish. I was being sarcastic because I feel like he keeps writing the same thing eveyrday.
Assuming we sign Pettitte or Sheets. Can this pitching staff be one of the Major League best in quite awhile on paper?
C.C.
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte/Sheets
Joba
Can someone name a better one recently?
Adam – Sorry!
He he he.
the manny stuff is cracking me up. like the steins are gonna waive the uniform rule for manny ramirez while the old man is still alive! it’d KILL old george! and cash is gonna roll on it, too, and girardi.
id put the papelbon’s chances of being a yankee next year above manny’s.
Look…..if we had a spot open in the DH position….Id say get Dunn as fast as you can. His bat is unreal. But his defense is HORRIFIC. Hes one of the worst ive ever seen.
“Without Tex or Manny, we are still a 3rd place team. Our offense is middle of the pack.”
Who in the current Boston or Tampa line-up scares you enough to make you believe that?
Exactly
The notion that we can’t afford Tex is false. Just don’t bring back Andy or trade for Cameron and thats $20 million right there. It’s not like we really need either guy desperately anyway.
If Cashman/Hal really wanted Teixeria, it is very feasible. Just don’t acquire the two old, overpaid veterans.
I heard an interview with Torre where he said Manny was a great player and he had no problems with him during the final few months of the season..Now obviously that’s because Boras sat down with manny and told him to STFU if he wanted his money…so Manny obliged.
However, Torre’s smart enough of a guy that he wouldn’t publicly endorse Manny if he truly didn’t mean it.
The Yankees should give Manny a 2-year deal for upwards of 24 million, and if there are any problems, call up Torre for some help
(a bit of sarcasm, of course).
The deal would improve the lineup 10-fold, and for people to just dismiss it just because of who Manny is seems ridiculous to me. As someone said earlier in this thread, Manny compares to Reggie Jackson, who ended up being a great Yankee.
“If Gary Carter does a good job managing the Long Island Ducks this year, then I may consider hiring him”
I wouldn’t let Carter sell hot dogs at the Stadium. Give him a booth at Citifield or whatever it’s called and people can drop by and watch him talk about himself.
I can S.o.S.
Cone
Clemens
Pettitte
Wells
Hernandez
Adam Dunn is overrated.
I, for one, think the people who don’t want Manny because he urinated on or in the Green Monster are awesome. The guy with the 24th best OPS+ in history. The guy who will pass Mantle for 15th on the all time HR list in May. He was dogging it so hard in Boston he picked up an XBH every 9 AB. So yeah, I’m sure he could have been a .350 hitter in his prime. And yeah, he makes boneheaded plays and has subhuman intellect.
But you’re paying him to mash other teams. That much he can do. That’s why he has 55 career HR against the Yankees and an OPS up over 1.000 against them. So I don’t like him, but the arguments against signing him from the perspective of his being a clubhouse cancer are ludicrous.
Graig Nettles, Sparky Lyle, Reggie Jackson love it.
Then again, these are the same people who are concerned about Ks. As in, with Adam Dunn…who’s a better hitter than Bobby Abreu and 5 years younger. And yeah, he’s a much better hitter than Xavier Nady.
Worrying about offensive strikeouts is the same mentality that inspires the second batter of the game to bunt the first one over to second base…even though it’s irrefutable that you’re more likely to score more runs with a man on first and none out than you are with a man on second and two outs
Brett Favre made the pro bowl
I’ve thought about this for awhile.
And I believe, despite some of Brian Cashman’s statements to the contrary, in the end the Yankees are opening a big new extremely expensive ballpark next season, most of which they paid for themselves. They are going to want to put the most exciting team they can get into it starting next season. They need to put fannies in the seats, especially given the cost of their tickets and the foundering economy that doesn’t show any signs of improving any time soon.
Therefore, they are going to make a big splash with Manny Ramirez, in my opinion. As long as the bidding stays where it is.
“Might I add that it is absolutely laughable to suggest that we lose both Abreu and Giambis production and all we do acquire Mike Cameron.
Yeah! That is really going to happen.”
I couldn’t agree more. This team is going to lose a lot of 3-2 games next year because they have great pitching and a paper thin offense.
“The deal would improve the lineup 10-fold”
10 fold, eh? That means they go for about 7,690 runs next year??? That would be awesome! Might leave me thinking we spent a little to much on pitching though.
Reggie was an ego-maniac. He loved carrying the team on his back. Manny creates imaginary injuries to keep from playing. How does one expect to motivate him when he doesn’t feel like playing? How does one dicipline him when he won’t run out ground balls?
Adam Dunn is overrated by no one except for Adam Dunn’s mother. He’s not getting a murmer on the FA market. Bear in mind that his similarity score to Harmon Killebrew at age 28 is 902. And we’re not trying to sign a borderline HOFer. We just need a bat in the bottom third of the lineup. Given the incredible lack of interest in Dunn he’s a compelling option.
Disco Stu — You should quit focusing no the two things Manny does GREAT and remember that he is TERRIBLE at everything else including being accountable, being a teammate, giving maximum effort, demonstrating integrity, treating people with respect and representing the organization/city.
I’m not looking for choir boys, but this classless clown is the opposite extreme.
On other things….
Comparing Dunn to Giambi is laughable. In the last five years Dunn has 89 more HR (206-117), 126 more RBI, a high OPS+ despite playing in a weaker lineup. And he is nine years younger. While he’s a poor OF at least he can play out there or at 1B and not be any worse than the lummox.
Tex remains my first choice, but Dunn makes a lot more sense than a Giambi or Abreu redux.
“most of which they paid for themselves.”
Sure is pretty to believe.
“Who in the current Boston or Tampa line-up scares you enough to make you believe that?”
Boston is likely going to have Pedroia, Youk, Ortiz, Tex, Drew in the middle of their line-up we will have A-Rod, Matsui, Nady, Posada thats a bit one sided.
“Adam Dunn is overrated.”
How so? Look at his numbers and compare them to Giambi’s from last year. They’re eerily similar, with Dunn having slightly better numbers in every category but BA (only by about 5-10 points).
He has mashed 40 HRs 5 years in a row, has a GREAT OBP, and can play LF, RF, 1B, and DH.
What’s overrated about that?
Nobody expects him to make 25 million, but if he could be had for 15, and if he was to play every day, he would be a great upgrade to our thin lineup.
Carlos Pena, Upton, Longoria, Crawford,
and
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
scare me a hell of a lot more than
Jeter-Matsui-Arod-Posada-Nady
I heard Brett Farve got to the pro bowl.Just like the all-star game and Derek Jeter the games cazn be a popularity contest rather then skill.
Keeping first base open for Posada or Jeter is silly IMO.
If Posada can’t catch, the Yanks are doomed anyway, and Posada’s relative advantage as a first baseman won’t begin to compare to his relative advantage as a third baseman. Jeter by the time he is ready to move to first is unlikely to hit well enough.
Montero is so far away you shouldn’t plan that far ahead, and IMO Miranda won’t hit well enough either.
I’m OK with Swisher for a year, but not long term there.
“C.C.
Wang
Burnett
-Pettitte-/Sheets
Joba”
excuse me while I wipe the saliva off my keyboard.
Each opportunity is critical in its own right – there is little sense in commiting long term revenue to Sabbathia, Burkett, ARod only to put Cameron, Swisher, and the 3 dwarfs in the field
There are no excuses — you don’t “Pursue every oportunty to upgrade the club” by drawing artificial no-go boundaries around 1 in 10 year opportunities.
Hopefully Cashman is being coy and not playing his hand to early
But failing to sign Teixeira is nearly “criminally” stupid -maybe double so since it rpeats the insanity of passing on beltran and keeping Bernie-Bubba, taking Shefield instead of Vlad
a wasted year (playoff loss to Angels) – Playoff loss to tigers (Sheffield injury) all would have been likley much different outcomes and a different team today – had those deals been made for Guerrero and Beltran
Swisher is not the 1B of the future. Cameron is not a CF of the future. They are meaningful only if a Teixeira is NOT available.
I do not think that the minor league players are in the Teixeira class – there is no sense in keeping a spot for lesser talent.
Think about it differently – tha Yankees have long term holes in RF/CF/LF/1B/ and C – they are developing a Long term hole at SS. All of thes positions need to be filled with someone. NADY, MATSUI, DAMON, Posada are all stop gaps to 2011. They wil all need to be replaced at the same time with unknown potential replacements.
Taken 1 at a time Teixeira fixes 1B for 8 years, and DH for 2 after that. $20M a year is CHEAP. $25M a year is not expensive. The Federal reserve and the coming inflation has seen to that.
Well, the first thing is that Boston handled the Manny situation embarrassingly. The second thing is that Manny loafed his way to a 927 OPS and collected an XBH every 9 ABs.
So, yeah, how does one discipline him? I don’t know, but he’s put up OPS+ over 160 2 of the last 3 years, and there’s no reason on God’s green earth why he can’t do it again this year.
I’m not even saying I want him. But the failure to apply common sense from a statistical standpoint to these problems is really confusing.
Adam Dunn is overrated.
—————————————————
By who?
All you here is people bashing him because he strikeouts alot, which demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of just how valuable he would be as a LH DH especially at the Stadium.
“Teixeira will probably go for about $5MM – $6MM more than what Pettitte and Cameron will cost combined.”
If the yanks are rethinking Pettite and feel that they might have enough pitching to take a chance on having Hughes/Aceves in the rotation then the team should go all in right now and sign Tex and take the risk of playing Damon in CF.
There’s no potential alignment with Manny or Dunn that is going to win them as many games as signing Tex and taking the risk of playing Damon in CF with Swisher in LF.
There’s a very good argument to resign Pettite and trade for Cameron – it makes this a likely 95+ win team.
Tex with Damon in CF and Hughes in the rotation carries much more risk but also has more potential reward.
I think it really depends on how much risk they want to absorb.
But if they do feel that they need another bat and that offense is something they need to improve more than the certainty that Pettite adds to the rotation – then they should obtain the best solution possible – and for this team that’s Tex.
Adam Dunn stinks!! No way he is a Yankee next year. If he is, then they are a joke. Dunn, Cameron and Swisher will strike out 1000 times!!
“Nobody expects him to make 25 million, but if he could be had for 15,”
Dude he can be had for 10-12. He’s dirt cheap, I can’t remember the last 40/100 w/ a high OBP for sale this cheap.
“I heard Brett Farve got to the pro bowl.”
They must have invited about 7 QB’s then. That’s just awful. 3rd best QB in his own division and he’s in the Pro Bowl.
“-Adam Dunn stinks!! No way he is a Yankee next year. If he is, then they are a joke. Dunn, Cameron and Swisher will strike out 1000 times!!-”
Did anybody hear anything.
“to his relative advantage as a third baseman”
Obviously I meant to his relative advantage as a first baseman.
According to NY POst BOTH Burnett and CC have taken their physicals
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....144501.htm
Oh and Witten named to the Pro Bowl TO was not ha ha
Here are some other folks who’ve represented the team and city:
Mickey Mantle
Billy Martin
Whitey Ford
Dwight Gooden
David Cone
Graig Nettles
Reggie Jackson
Enos Slaughter
Roger Clemens
Somehow, I think the Yankee firmament would withstand the assault from Manny
“Comparing Dunn to Giambi is laughable. In the last five years Dunn has 89 more HR (206-117), 126 more RBI, a high OPS+ despite playing in a weaker lineup. And he is nine years younger. While he’s a poor OF at least he can play out there or at 1B and not be any worse than the lummox.”
I only meant to compare Giambi’s 2008 numbers against Dunn’s 2008 numbers. People complain about losing Giambi’s power, but Dunn would be the most comparable player to replace him with.
pete,
There is a reason cash isnt jumping the gun to trade for cameron – why should he? What other teams are in the market currently for a 36 year old center fielder for 10 million dollars. I am going to go out on a limb here and say the yanks are the only ones.
So what is the point of trading for cameron right now? He will be there at the end of the day as will the brewers willingness to dump his salary. Truth is Cameron doesnt bring much to the table outside of his glove – he will give us 15 homers and 15 stolen bases with a 330 obp. For 9 million and 500 thousand less, Gardner will most likely give us an obp of 330 or more with 40 or more stolen bases. Gardner may lead the league in strikeouts but cameron could also lead the league in strikeouts just as easily. Moreover, gardner has consistently shows improvement in his second year at every single level. His first year in low A ball, he has an ops of 753 – his second year he had an ops of 851 in high ball. hIS FIRST year in double A it was 670 and his second year – 811. And in triple A more of the same – first year: 674 and second year: 836. Last year, he has a 283 obp in 127 at bats with 13 stolen bases. Next year, we should expect a decent amount of improvement to at least the point of 330 obp and 40 to 50 stolen bases. Cameron is a lock for a 330 obp at this point in the decline of his career and a career avg of 340. hE had 17 stolen bases and 25 homers last year which should probably put him around 15 and 20 next year. Gardner wont hit 20 homers but he will have at least double the stolen bases of cameron at a minimum and probably put up the same obp based on his history and cameron will be 36 on opening day with a 10 mil salary. Gardner will be 25 making league minimum. He also had 0 errors in 40 games last year with 5 assists – Thats 20 assists extrapolated across the season – Mike played 120 games last year in center and no one really ran on him and he had a 997 fielding percentage so he represents an upgrade defensively.
But the point is – the difference between gardner and cameron is not close to 10 million. We dont need another veteran presence and we dont need another injury risk or another player in the last phase of their career. iF they take igawa’s contract and cameron is worth 6 mil instead of 10 – fine but otherwise, no thanks.
Still further, plenty of media folks still see the yanks in the running for tex with a real good shot of pulling ramirez away from the dodgers with a 3 year deal. Pete, you said it yourself. tHE YANKS want to get YOUNGER – i know manny doesnt do that for them but how in the world does signing cameron accomplish this goal? Its also a complete contradiction. i STILL think dunn would be a nice fit and he is young still or compared to other free agents he is. Tex is also following right in line of getting young and better defensively and cameron IS NOT. Maybe the yanks dont want to shell out another long contract but IMO – tex is one of the few free agents that will actually be worth the money at the end of the deal (CC may be worth it in the end but AJ probably wont be.) Plus, signing tex for 8 or 9 years at 20 mil per puts the payroll at around 200 million – still 8 million less than last year. This is pretty good considering that the yanks will make the most money in the history of the organization next season and probably make the most money in the history of any organization. And i doubt the economy will really be reflected in the sale of tickets for the opening of the new stadium.
Tex represents everything we want in a player. He is 28, athletic, defensively oriented and already has won 2 gold gloves and hasnt been eligible for 2 seasons. He is a first baseman – one of the two positions on the team that could be upgraded. He is a solid threat behind arod having hit between 30 and 40 homers every season and we have no one capable of batting in the fourth spot currently if arod bats third. He is an on base machine – fully capable of replacing the obp of guys like abreu and giambi as tex would have ranked second last year in walks in the al. He takes a ton of pitches as well which we need considering that cano and nady don’t. He deepens our bench by making a player as versatile as swisher a solid backup option at any outfield position as well as first and a great bat off the bench or a platoon with nady for right. I dont see any reason why the yanks shouldnt give him a long deal – he has a tremendous track record and an 8 year deal would put him at 36 years old which isnt bad at all considering the ages at which posada and arod are signed to.
Brandon, I think Dr. Andrews would also be wiping his saliva from the MRI tube.
“Dude he can be had for 10-12. He’s dirt cheap, I can’t remember the last 40/100 w/ a high OBP for sale this cheap.”
He made 13 last year, he’s a FA, and has stayed remarkably consistent. It’s also a slow off-season for bats with Manny/Teixiera being the only two names being thrown around.
What makes you think he won’t get a raise from what Cincinnati/Arizona paid him? He almost certainly will..
There’s a reason why he’s getting less attention than Manny.
And Yeah comparing Dunn and Giambi is a little bit laughable.. Giambi has been on base more, has had more hits and amazingly has a better average on top of striking out less than Dunn.
Favre, Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Kris Jenkins, Darrell Revis, and Leon Washington made it for the Jets
Manning, O’Hara, Snee, Feagels, Tuck, Carney made it for the Giants.
Whoooooa Dave! So..much…text..
“Adam Dunn stinks!! No way he is a Yankee next year. If he is, then they are a joke. Dunn, Cameron and Swisher will strike out 1000 times!!”
you do know, if Dunn is acquired then the Cameron trade isn’t happening.
If T.O gets cut this off-season, the Giants need to pick him up.
I am dying to have Ocho Cinco and T.O. as our WRs next year.
ellen
Perhaps you weren’t around when Reggie played! Sometimes he forgot to hustle to first or played it cautiously slow in the field. He also had an ego the size of Manny’s! Reggie was the straw the stirred the cup!
Rightly or wrongly, Manny was always an outsider for the Sox. He was always what was wrong when they lost & never more than a contributor when they won. Further, they wouldn’t deal with his request to be extended. He was boxed in in a small white town mentality of Boston.
I had a friend who played on that Yankee team with Reggie, Billy, Munson et al and it wasn’t called the Bronx zoo for nothing. BTW, George helped parlay that into attention and $$$ as well as victories.
I like Manny! I think Joe Torre showed what Manny could do with the right nurturing. I don’t believe Girardi can handle it, LOL, but he might be good at Billy Martin’s role!
I also like the idea of Adam Dunn! He reminds me of Kingman and I thought he was awesome in NY with the Yanks. Perhaps it could be deja vu all over again!
Adam Dunn is overrated? When he can’t even get a 4 year deal?
That’s absolutely comical. Dunn is extremely underrated. He had a higher OPS+ than Ryan Howard this past year, and people keep comparing him to Giambi when in reality Dunn is much younger and more durable, oh and had an OPS nearly 300 points higher than Giambi did with RISP this past season, despite enjoying little to no lineup protection.
Where is the overrated in all this? I’m not seeing it. I’m not sure if he’ll be a good fit with the Yankees at this time for reasons already tirelessly detailed in this blog, but whichever team picks him up is going to be getting a steal.
Why can’t A-Rod or Jeter call out Madden/Lupica the way that T.O. called out Ed Werder?
“Favre, Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Kris Jenkins, Darrell Revis, and Leon Washington made it for the Jets”
‘Cept for Favre, this seems about right. I assume Washington made it a the Special Teams guy???
Dave: I’ll go out on a limb and state that the idea that Brett Gardner at age 25 will suddenly turn into a better ballplayer than Vince Coleman is ludicrous. He might be a poor man’s Vince Coleman, and that’s, well, a lousy baseball player.
Brett Gardner shows no indication of understanding how to hit, much less knowledge of how to apply understanding to action. Given the rarified air the Yankees breathe, Cameron might be an overpay, but if the plan is to bring in Jackson after one year and Cameron represents marginal wins over Gardner, then it’s totally saleable.
“And Yeah comparing Dunn and Giambi is a little bit laughable.. Giambi has been on base more, has had more hits and amazingly has a better average on top of striking out less than Dunn.”
2008:
Giambi’s OBP: .373
Dunn’s OBP: .386
So, from the numbers, he obviously WASN’T on base more than Dunn.
Giambi’s AVG: .247
Dunn’s AVG: .236
This difference is minimal when you consider Dunn will hit more HR, have a higher OBP, SLG, will walk more, and is 8 years younger.
You’re right, Dunn will strike out probably 50 times more than Giambi will, and that’s a negative. But to pass on him solely because of that is dumb.
“What makes you think he won’t get a raise from what Cincinnati/Arizona paid him? He almost certainly will..”
Because the market simply won’t allow it. K-Rod’s negotiation alone should show you that, also look at what Manny is going through w/ his contract…the market isn’t as strong as it was before. Have we even heard of a team talking to Adam Dunn right now ? No. He’s cheap.
Snee finally gets in a Pro Bowl? WOO HOO!!!!! JUSTICE!!!!!
All this talk about Dunns K’s. How about his walks. At least he gets on base and has some pop. Have Matsui rotate with him if hes that bad in the outfield.
“Adam Dunn is overrated? When he can’t even get a 4 year deal?”
Overrated by some people posting here.
The guy hit .236 last season! lol. Worse than Giambi! But he had 8 more HRs ooooh wow.
Brent — I was disagreeing with another post. I like Dunn a lot and think he would be a helluva player in the stadium with the talent he’d be surrounded with. He could slide right into DH in 2010 so I can live with his defense for a year.
CB — right on point. Tex makes the most sense, but if not they should go Cameron or Dunn/Pettite. Also with Damon in CF you can keep Melky/Gardner on the bench and do a lot of late inning defensive maneuvering. I could live with a Nady, Damon, Dunn OF with Melky in RF and Gardner in CF late in games.
Nud — You are right, that trio would strike out 500 times or thereabouts. They’ll also hit about 90 HR.
And Yeah comparing Dunn and Giambi is a little bit laughable.. Giambi has been on base more, has had more hits and amazingly has a better average on top of striking out less than Dunn.
———————————————————–
So is that why Dunn had a higher OBP than Giambi last year?
What’s the obsession with the strikeouts? People get way too hung up on those numbers when it comes to these kind of hitters.
Call me crazy, but I can look past a few extra Ks for a .900+ OPS guy.
“And Yeah comparing Dunn and Giambi is a little bit laughable.. Giambi has been on base more, has had more hits and amazingly has a better average on top of striking out less than Dunn.”
One more thing..
Giambi had 111 hits last year, and Dunn had 122…so..your points about Giambi having a higher OBP and more hits are flat-out false.
How about signing Barry Bonds to protect Arod, you would only be locked in for 1 year, and hes a lefty, he would crush HRs over the short porch. Manny has just as much downside as Bonds.
Report: Paterno agrees to multi-year extension
Will he ever retire?
Who is the oldest person ever to coach college or professional sports.
Dunn would be nice if we needed someone to bat 6th. We need a legitimate 3 hole hitter.
People pushing for Adam Dunn on a 3 year deal, why would we just re-sign Abreu then for a 3 year deal? We know him, they like him, he wants to be in NY, good eye, OBP, etc.
Take him to spring training, put a mattress on the right field walla nd have him run into it over and over and over until he isnt scared of the wall anymore, and then i think you have it. Over 100 RBIs, less Ks.
“Reggie was an ego-maniac. He loved carrying the team on his back. Manny creates imaginary injuries to keep from playing. How does one expect to motivate him when he doesn’t feel like playing? How does one dicipline him when he won’t run out ground balls?”
Ellen – you took the words out of my mouth. Thanks for having the energy.
Yankees don’t need Cameron ($10M); what they need is another big bat to go with ARod. Giambi is not the answer. Opposing pitchers are not afraid of him anymore. Tex is good but too expensive a contract. Besides, he is not that intimidating a hitter either.
On the other hand, Manny for 2 or 3 yrs. make sense. I don’t care if he will be 39 by the end of contract, he will still bea power hitter, especially if he is DH.
Trade Matsui/Damon (13M), plus no Cameron ($10M) = 23M
That is exactly what it will take to get Manny.
To say Adam Dunn is more versatile than Giambi is extremely misleading, unless you mean he’s equally atrocious at both 1B and the OF (he’s actually worse at 1B, is possible,though).
He’s a DH. End of story. And with Matsui, we already have one of those.
“Brent—I was disagreeing with another post. I like Dunn a lot and think he would be a helluva player in the stadium with the talent he’d be surrounded with. He could slide right into DH in 2010 so I can live with his defense for a year.”
I didn’t even think about the future..if the Yankees could sign him to a 2-4 year deal at somewhere at/below 15 million, he could easily slide in as DH, 1B, or if absolutely necessary, one of the corner OF positions..and he’s only 28!
Do NOT trade Damon.
Only a moron would waste $20 million on Cameron and Pettitte.
“One more thing..
Giambi had 111 hits last year, and Dunn had 122…so..your points about Giambi having a higher OBP and more hits are flat-out false.”
You’re right. Dunn had 9 more hits in over 50 more AB’s. excuse my math.
Giambi had 113 btw.
a given they need another Bat,utility player(combo in/of if they could) & another SP
The good think about Dunn is he will K 140-160 times but he also draws 100-120 walks annually.
2008 with RISP-
Dunn
.241 BA (almost like hitting .300, for him)
.929 OPS
Giambi
.213 BA
.692 OPS
Needless to say, lack of production with RISP is what killed this offense last season. Dunn is clearly SIGNIFICANTLY better in this department than Giambi. He would help our cleanup and 5th spots out a lot as A-Rod would see better pitches to hit with men on.
Can these ludicrous Dunn/Giambi comparisons please come to a merciful end now?
Oh, never mind. This site is full of people who value batting average and care unnaturally about offensive strikeouts.
There’s no reason to expect any sanity when it comes to Ramirez and Dunn. All’s we need to know is that Andy Pettitte is a GD gamer who always takes the ball even if every joint in his HGH-wracked arm is worn to the lil’ ole nubbin.
I don’t know whether Cash $ is a great executive. But at least he’s not evaluating this stuff on the basis of paeans to emotion.
“eople pushing for Adam Dunn on a 3 year deal, why would we just re-sign Abreu then for a 3 year deal? We know him, they like him, he wants to be in NY, good eye, OBP, etc.”
Because Dunn is a much, much, much scarier hitter. The difference is about 25 home runs per season.
Favre got voted to the Pro-Bowl
LOL… too funny.
“Carlos Pena, Upton, Longoria, Crawford,
and
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
scare me a hell of a lot more than
Jeter-Matsui-Arod-Posada-Nady”
There’s no reason why they should though considering the Yankees five players have better career combined OPS+ than the Red Sox and Rays five players.
Dunn would hit before A-Rod, since his numbers indicate a strikeout, walk or homerun. I dont see anything about inning ending double plays, so clearly putting him between A-Rod and Jeter makes more sense.
Why settle for Dunn or Giambi who have huge holes in their swing? They hit monster HRs when they hit it, true but they miss a lot. Pitchers know how to pitch to them.
On the other hand, how do you pitch to Manny? the answer is: VERY CAREFULLY. That’s how good he is.
smarter than who- if getting cameron includes getting rid of igawa then cameron + pettitte doesnt cost anywhere near $20M
Bottom line is that Dunn is better than anything we have presently protecting A-Rod. He has no market and would be cheap.
He will hit 50 HRs in the stadium and be energized by a winning situation.
The runs Dunn adds on offense are worth the runs he costs on defense all day. Didn’t some of you ever read Moneyball?
here’s what i think will happen:
the yankees get nobody else and they will be fine.
Dunn is an underrated player but I don’t want him on the Yankees. Tex will cost too much for the Yanks given their current payroll situation. Manny is an amazing hitter but he’s a headcase, I don’t want him on the Yanks.
I’ll be happy with Cameron and Pettitte.
“People pushing for Adam Dunn on a 3 year deal, why would we just re-sign Abreu then for a 3 year deal? We know him, they like him, he wants to be in NY, good eye, OBP, etc.
Take him to spring training, put a mattress on the right field walla nd have him run into it over and over and over until he isnt scared of the wall anymore, and then i think you have it. Over 100 RBIs, less Ks.”
It’s not my money, but I would give Abreu the 3 years he wants. He’s so consistent in his numbers year in and year out, and there are no tell-tale signs that he will decline as soon as the Yankees think. Hell, not running into walls his whole career has to have maintained his health a little bit, no?
I love what Abreu did with the Yankees and he shouldn’t be unceremoniously dropped like he is..
I recommended Dunn not as a better option than Abreu, but as an option KNOWING that Abreu won’t be back.
Dunn.
“Carlos Pena, Upton, Longoria, Crawford,
and
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
scare me a hell of a lot more than
Jeter-Matsui-Arod-Posada-Nady”
There’s no reason why they should though considering the Yankees five players have better career combined OPS+ than the Red Sox and Rays five players.”
ray, im glad you did the #’s, the same thougth occured to me that we were right there with those lineups and we have improved greatly at SP and defense.
My point with Giambi was that in the last five years Dunn has hit 40 HR five times and Giambi has not done it at all.
Dunn just turned 29… Abreu will be 35 in March.
Dunn is a bad OF, I freely admitted that. But he is functional (46 career assists / 55 errors) whereas you could never play Giambi out there.
Damon should not be traded, Matsui is untradable until he shows himself to be healthy during spring training so those are pointless suggestions.
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
Besides Ortiz, the rest give you around .300, 20-25 hr and 70-100 hrs.
This isn’t overly threatening.
And lets see how ortiz does without manny behind him.
lets see JD stay healthy. He has an injury sheet that would make AJ burnett feel good.
Pedroia is a fighter but his numbers are similar to jeter.
Youkilis puts up numbers like a healthy Matsui or Posada.
“Tex makes the most sense, but if not they should go Cameron or Dunn/Pettite. ”
That’s not what I said. What I said was slightly different but the difference is important.
I said that IF the yankees have decided that they have enough pitching to forego Pettite in the rotation then…
But that’s a very big IF.
Putting Hughes or Aceves back into the rotation while Joba is on an innings count is a very big risk.
People who want Tex at all costs tend to underestimate this risk.
Sure if they knew Hughes was read to throw 180 major league innings you skip Burnett or Pettite and then you can think about going in on tex.
But they don’t know that. That’s exactly the decision that blew up in their faces last year.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to put Hughes into the rotation in spring training. I think he needs more time in AAA as he hasn’t pitched every 5 days in over two years.
Aceves? Well ok. But he’s a huge risk as well.
Whether it’s the guys at baseball prospectus or yankee’s bloggers, people who are adamant about Tex aren’t taking the risk in the rotation seriously enough, IMO.
If you want to be a pitching first organization it’s a real problem having two young pitchers in the rotation, one of whom has a very low innings cap.
It’s up to the organization and how they want to distribute risk.
If they have decided that they could have enough pitching without Pettite (again – a very big if and one I don’t think they want to take) then they should go all in on Tex as neither Manny nor Dunn will give them as good a chance to win this year.
But again, it’s easy for me to say that – committing another 200M in fixed costs while you have ARod signed for another 9yr/ 240M and CC at 161M/7yr isn’t easy and may be impossible.
As it is, I think they don’t want to put any other unproven pitchers in the rotation outside of Joba so I think they will opt for Pettite and Cameron. Which I think is a completely reasonable way of going about things.
Manny > Dunn
If we’re spending for a hitter, Manny is the way to go. Overpay for the better player.
Doesn’t the cravat provide Arod enough protection?
I got an idea! Lets save the 20-22 million we are about to waste on 2 36 yr old guys in Pettitte and Cameron and go get a young, athletic, power hitting first baseman named Mark Teixeira. Seriously I can live with Gardner in CF if we have Tex in the line-up and Pettitte playing hard-ball a year after the team supported him through his mitchell report scandal is mind-boggling.
“2008 with RISP-
Dunn
.241 BA (almost like hitting .300, for him)
.929 OPS
Giambi
.213 BA
.692 OPS
Needless to say, lack of production with RISP is what killed this offense last season. Dunn is clearly SIGNIFICANTLY better in this department than Giambi. He would help our cleanup and 5th spots out a lot as A-Rod would see better pitches to hit with men on.
Can these ludicrous Dunn/Giambi comparisons please come to a merciful end now?”
Why bother when we could have this?
RISP:
.296 BA
.372 OBP
RISP/2 Outs
.382 BA
.433 OBP
Bobby Abreu is more Clutch than Adam Dunn.
Take the $10M for Pettite and $10M for Cameron and give Manny a $25M 1 year contract. The only way to deal with Manny is if he is playing for another contract. Now you have protection for A-Rod and someone to make up some of the 200 RBIs lost from Abreu and Giambi.
Let Gardner and Melky duke it out for CF. Use Aceves/Hughes for 5th SP.
SoCalYankeeFan
Stephon Marbury will show up at tonight’s Knicks-Lakers game, as a fan in the stands.
Per NY POST.
CB
December 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
“Teixeira will probably go for about $5MM – $6MM more than what Pettitte and Cameron will cost combined.”
If the yanks are rethinking Pettite and feel that they might have enough pitching to take a chance on having Hughes/Aceves in the rotation then the team should go all in right now and sign Tex and take the risk of playing Damon in CF.
There’s no potential alignment with Manny or Dunn that is going to win them as many games as signing Tex and taking the risk of playing Damon in CF with Swisher in LF.
There’s a very good argument to resign Pettite and trade for Cameron – it makes this a likely 95+ win team.
Tex with Damon in CF and Hughes in the rotation carries much more risk but also has more potential reward.
I think it really depends on how much risk they want to absorb.
But if they do feel that they need another bat and that offense is something they need to improve more than the certainty that Pettite adds to the rotation – then they should obtain the best solution possible – and for this team that’s Tex.
—–
CB,am I missing something or is the first time you are in on Tex?
“How about signing Barry Bonds to protect Arod, you would only be locked in for 1 year, and hes a lefty, he would crush HRs over the short porch. Manny has just as much downside as Bonds.”
You obviously didn’t get the memo, that the owners/gm’s/mlb are all colluding against him.
“Doesn’t the cravat provide Arod enough protection?”
While it might provide protection on the field, I would imagine it also gets him into a lot of situations that start with “Here’s a drink..compliments of the man at the end of the bar”
I think Teix to the Yankees will not happen not because of money, but because of roster inflexibility. Cashman doesn’t want to be locked in at both IF corners to players who won’t come off the books until they are nearly, or over, 40.
I also think the Yanks will add one more veteran starter rather than giving the spot to Hughes precisely because of the risk that CB is talking about. Right now, each of the 4 pitchers currently in the rotation has some sort of risk attatched to them. It’s now time to counteract some of that risk with reliability and stability. Otherwise, if you give that spot to Hughes, the collective risk in the rotation becomes way too high. (The same applies to Sheets, BTW). Someone like Pettitte, by contrast, lowers the collective risk.
If it isn’t Pettitte, it’ll be some other vet, but I personally hope it’s Pettitte. If it isn’t though, I’d like to see Garland over Lowe, he’s a decent no. 5 and he costs fewer draft picks and would not require as many years. I don’t want to see Lowe blocking Brackman or McAllister in a couple of years. Hell, I don’t even want to see him blocking Kennedy. Roster flexibility FTW! Garland over Lowe.
Just see Boston sign Teixiera and the Manny to the Bronx rumors become red hot and the Steinbrenners will do nothing to water down the rumors.
There would be a dead serious sit down in Tampa with Boras, Manny, and the Steinbrenners to see if Manny can become a fit in NYC for more than financial reasons.
There are far worse defensive OF’s in the game and Manny played all of his Cleveland career in RF.
A possibility exists with a DH and corner OF shuttle of Damon, Matsui, Nady, and Manny according to scouting reports and keeping all of them rested enough but not rusty.
Once Teixeira is signed, Boras’s full focus goes on Manny.
“Dunn
.241 BA (almost like hitting .300, for him)
.929 OPS
Giambi
.213 BA
.692 OPS
Dunn is clearly SIGNIFICANTLY better in this department than Giambi.”
Isn’t this simply playing with words? Both are horrible in context players.
OPS is not a good way to evaluate hitters with RISP.
Man on second and you draw a walk. That’s nice. But you don’t score a run. Instead you simply pass the baton to the next guy.
Man on third 1 out you draw a walk. Who cares? A productive out would be much better. Getting on base there with a walk is almost irrelevant other than setting up a double play possibility.
If a guy is in scoring position you want a hit.
The notion that batting average doesn’t matter at all anymore because OBP and OPS are everything is misleading. It overestimates how good players like Dunn are.
“Doesn’t the cravat provide Arod enough protection?”
is that was that was, i though it was a handy way to carry a doggie sweater…
is Texeira really this good? I’m having difficulty believing he is a plus $20million player.
Manny would be the best option, Dunn would be my second choice (this all assumes that there is a 0% chance the Yankees get Teixiera).
I don’t know why, but I cringe at trading for Mike Cameron..I think the potential weight of 10 million on the payroll could be better spent getting a better bat (like Manny or Dunn).
If Pettitte balks at the Yankees’ 1-year offer, they should say good riddance, assign the 5th spot to Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves/assorted extras and use that money along with Cameron’s money to get a bat.
remember all the games we lost last year scoring 3 runs or less…..we need a hitter
“Why bother when we could have this?
RISP:
.296 BA
.372 OBP
RISP/2 Outs
.382 BA
.433 OBP
Bobby Abreu is more Clutch than Adam Dunn.”
E-Man: I notice you didn’t include OPS in those stats, but I don’t even have to look to know that Dunn’s is higher than Abreu’s in those situations, or any other situation.
I’m not diametrically opposed to Abreu, but Dunn is a much scarier hitter, and they’re both defensive hacks so I’ll take the hack who’s gonna hit 50 HR as well as posting an OBP over .400.
BBB
December 16th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I think Teix to the Yankees will not happen not because of money, but because of roster inflexibility. Cashman doesn’t want to be locked in at both IF corners to players who won’t come off the books until they are nearly, or over, 40.
——
Tex will be 36 and Arod will be a DH by then.
Al– I’m also disappointed in Pettite, but it shows you the mentality of most modern athletes. Me, Myself and I are their top three priorities. Time to give him a deadline if they haven’t already.
CB — Sorry if I misrepresented your ideas. I agree that Pettite/Cameron is safer, but I’m a high risk/high reward kind of guy and Teixiera represents that to me. I think Joba/Hughes/Acveves/Kennedy/Coke/Wright could end up giving the Yanks 384 decent innings (64 starts X 6) which is what you need from your # 4 and # 5 starters.
I’ve heard a lot of names thrown out and IMO here are my thoughts.
Teixeira:
Yankees and their fans would love to have Teixeira, but it’s not going to happen. He’ll go home to Baltimore, or go to Boston, unless Angels give him a monster contract with an opt out clause.
Manny:
Will go to one of the LA teams.
Nick Johnson:
Yankees IMO have no interest, or should they.
Joey Votto:
Yankees will not trade the farm away for him.
Dunn:
Only an option if Matsui and his surgically repaired knee + NTC can be moved, like ASAP, which stands zero chance.
Cameron:
Makes no sense to trade for him, pay him 10M, then pay most of Igawas 12M on top of that. Let Brewers wait- they’re hungry to free up payroll so they can sign a closer-Fuentes. Anyway Cameron no better defensively than what we have, and I’m sure they can trade some of our surplus relief pithching or minor league arms for a younger cheaper alternative.
Pettitte:
Yankees exploring other short term options, while waiting on Pettitte. Will not go,IMO, with Hughes/Aceves as #4 and Joba as #5 to limit his innings. Brad Penny?
Furcal:
If deals the same bet he goes back to Dodgers over Braves, where he’s guaranteed to play SS. Rosenberg, again tried to beat the crowd with his rumors that it was a done deal.
“remember all the games we lost last year scoring 3 runs or less…..we need a hitter”
I remember franky. Unfortunately others like to put blinders on to this fact.
*Stephon Marbury will show up at tonight’s Knicks-Lakers game, as a fan in the stands.
Per NY POST.*
I wonder if he’ll carry his towel w/ him
Why does everyone act like its their $$ ?
Yanks have it, who cares if they spend it?
Everyone will hate them regardless…
they can afford Tex and still be at last yrs budget..
its not improbable..
DO IT CasH!
“i though it was a handy way to carry a doggie sweater”
That’s no way to talk about Madonna.
Knicks will beat the Lakers tonight.
Anthony Roberson will hit a game winning 3
“I also think the Yanks will add one more veteran starter rather than giving the spot to Hughes precisely because of the risk that CB is talking about.”
If the Yanks were convinced about that risk, Pettitte would have already been signed IMO. Clearly the Yanks are worried about the risk, or I don’t think Pettitte would still be part of the mix.
IMO, if the Yanks had made up their minds to pass on Teixeira, Andy and Cameron would already be Yanks. Maybe they are playing a game to drive up Teixeira’s price, but that’s a game fans are more likely to think is played by teams than is actually played.
In my experience, when a business decides it wants an asset which is priced acceptably, it goes ahead and locks up that asset for fear it will lose what it wants, rather than play a bluffing game in the hopes of getting what they want even cheaper.
BBB don’t you know that BA out-weighs everything, I mean a .313 overall hitter w/ a .500 OPS in pressure situations, give me that over a 900+ OPS hitter w/ a .240 BA in pressure spots.
“Knicks will beat the Lakers tonight.”
NBA could allow the Knicks to play armed with knives and they’d still lose…….by at least 15.
“NBA could allow the Knicks to play armed with knives and they’d still lose…….by at least 15.”
Multiple choice timeZ:
What would you rather have for $20M in 2009?
a) Petitte + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
b) Tex + Gardner + Hughes + IPK/Aceves on the back end
c) Manny + Gardner + Hughes + IPK/Aceves on the back end
d) Sheets + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
e) Lowe + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
f) None of the above
“am I missing something or is the first time you are in on Tex?”
No. I don’t think my position has changed all that much since the end of the year.
I think Tex is a terrific player who is strong offensively and defensively.
I don’t think he’s a player who you must acquire at all costs given what he will cost and the organization’s budget priorities.
I think it’s really a matter of weighing the risks and rewards.
All I was saying was that if they want to get more hitting rather than more pitching then they should go after Tex rather than Manny or Dunn.
But that’s working under a very different set of assumptions than what the organization has up to now suggested it is prioritizing.
They generally seem to have prioritized not having more than 1 young starter in the rotation in 2010.
If that’s your priority Tex doesn’t fit.
But IF you are rethinking pitching/ Pettite – if you feel that you have enough pitching and can risk using Hughes – then they should go after Tex.
To me getting Tex is a move that depends on other factors. He’s not a must get.
But I do also think the context of the team has changed in unexpected ways.
They spent much more on CC / AJ than we were thinking they would.
And CC is really only signed for a guaranteed 3 years.
So the one thing I do really wonder about is whether the team is simply looking at their window of opportunity as the next three seasons – CC, Mo, Jeter, Posada, etc.
If the organization see’s its window as the next three years then I think they should dump the idea of a hard budget this year sign Tex and sign Pettite.
If your window is truly 3 years then the opportunity cost of waiting until next season when Damon/matsui/nady come off the books to upgrade the offense then you’ve potentially lost 33% of your window. That’s a huge opportunity cost if they don’t win.
But again – I don’t know if they really do see their window to win as the next 3 years after which their chances will decrease precipitously. No one knows that outside of Hal, Cash and a few others I’d guess.
Hey, lots of opinions about dropping Pettitte and getting a bat, but no one has stepped up to take my bet on whether he’ll be a Yankee in 2009. I say yes. The stakes: one 7-pack of Moose Bars. Who’s in?
does Adam Dunn hit homeruns when they matter, or when his team is up 7-0?
thank you to anyone responding. Not a NL person.
and I wonder what Cincy fans opinion of Adam Dunn is?
As much as I didn’t think it will happen, Manny will probably end up a Yankee as a DH. That is what he wants to be- a DH and the Yankees need a pure slugger. Who knows what his production could be without playing the outfield.
My major caution is- he is Manny and can be a idiot and he also will cause a log-jam with the DH position. The Yankees had previously used the DH position to rest players and give some a break when they are coming back from the DL. That won’t be possible with Manny as the DH because he will be too productive to sit most likely.
I also had thought Posada would one day be a great DH- another thing that might not be possible now.
What that means is someone will probably get traded. Matsui is likely as this is his last year – same deal with Damon- I doubt they will resign either.
So who knows- maybe they will just stock up this year and then next year another $25-30M comes off the books! They are in a great position and the funny thing is their payroll should be going down the next 2 years if they are smart about subbing in prospects.
My thinking was at first that they should get Tex- but that would be a to have A-Rod with 9 more years and Tex at 8-10 years. Two position players that will most likely not make it the full term = risk. Probably get Manny for 3 years. Maybe trade Matsui and Melky for another pitcher and prospects. Then over the next 2-3 years fill in with prospects. If they can use Swisher for now, they have a Miranda and Jackson coming soon.
I think they could be in very good shape to create a new empire.
“Isn’t this simply playing with words? Both are horrible in context players.
OPS is not a good way to evaluate hitters with RISP.
Man on second and you draw a walk. That’s nice. But you don’t score a run. Instead you simply pass the baton to the next guy.
Man on third 1 out you draw a walk. Who cares? A productive out would be much better. Getting on base there with a walk is almost irrelevant other than setting up a double play possibility.
If a guy is in scoring position you want a hit.
The notion that batting average doesn’t matter at all anymore because OBP and OPS are everything is misleading. It overestimates how good players like Dunn are.”
CB: Fair enough, but even if you want a hit and are evaluating productivity with RISP solely by BA, Dunn is still better than Giambi, as well as nearly a decade younger.
Just getting a little bit sick of comparisons between the 2, that’s all.
Also, ever since this year’s World Series I’ve become a bigger proponent of the usefulness of drawing walks with men on. The Phillies did a lot of that, but didn’t hit very well with RISP for most of the Series. The Rays got a lot of big hits with men on, but still lost because they didn’t put enough men on.
Shortly after the WS ended, I read a fascinating article in SI (wish I had favorited it) that suggested the Phillies won just because they made outs at a lesser rate than did Tampa Bay, and by sending so many men up to bat but making so few outs, they had greater opportunity to score runs than Tampa Bay and were inevitably able to do so often enough to win the Series.
Do you think there’s any validity to that, or just a statistical coincidence?
What would you rather have for $20M in 2009?
a) Petitte + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
b) Tex + Gardner + Hughes + IPK/Aceves on the back end
c) Manny + Gardner + Hughes + IPK/Aceves on the back end
d) Sheets + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
e) Lowe + Cameron + Hughes/IPK/Aceves on the back end
f) None of the above
Answer is F, because other than Option A, all the others will cost 25M or more and prefer to go younger. Only Option B offers younger, but he’s not getting 8-10 years at 22.5-25M per year from the Yankees.
Everyone is voicing their opinions from what’s behind Door A (Tex), Door B (Manny) or Door C (Dunn). It’s like Let’s Make A Deal with Monty Hall.
I think Cash will choose from door D – the trap door no one saw or was expecting. Who’s behind that door? Cash knows -but like a good GM he isn’t telling.
the yankees are thinking about:
g)cameron + pettitte – 1/2 igawa’s contract = $13M not $20M
———————————————–
yankeenate
December 16th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
is Texeira really this good? I’m having difficulty believing he is a plus $20million player.
who knows what a $20M player even is but:
35 HR/ 118 RBI / 80BB/ +400 OBP (5 yr averages) from a switch-hitter and gold glove defense, + good clubhouse presence is probably as good as you can expect.
now i still dont think the yankees are going to spend that much on him but if anybody’s worth it, i guess tex is worth it.
If we matched the Sux at the last minute Tex would come here. He has ties to Jersey(his sister lives there) NY is also closer to Baltimore(where hes from) and his hero growing up was Don Mattingly. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t wanna be a Sux he just wants to play on the East coast we can get him if all things are equal.
“In my experience, when a business decides it wants an asset which is priced acceptably, it goes ahead and locks up that asset for fear it will lose what it wants, rather than play a bluffing game in the hopes of getting what they want even cheaper.”
Agreed. Your posts sums things up very well. If they were sold on Pettite/Cameron both players would be locked up. If they were sold on the pitching staff they wouldn’t have made the offer to Pettite.
I do think however that if they’ve gotten the sense that the Tex negotiations are coming to a close the they would want to give off the sense that they could be rethinking their decision on tex.
This is particularly true if they believe that there is effectively a minimal market for cameron or pettitte.
Every marginal dollar they make the sox spend is an important competitive advantage to the yankees.
Other than the obvious (injury-prone/temperamental)reasons, why isn’t Milton Bradley’s name being thrown around in the OF candidate talk?
There’s no chance that any team will offer him more than 3 years, right?
I said this earlier, and, I’ll repeat it. If NYY goes after and signs Teixeira, you can forget about having anything more than rookies and fillers in the outfield in 2010-2011. They won’t sign Holliday, too. They can’t afford that.
**CC and AJ TOOK PHYSICALS!!!**
The Post learned **Burnett underwent a physical Monday and Sabathia was at Manhattan’s Columbia Presbyterian Hospital today for tests**.
The Yankees have scheduled a press conference for 1 p.m. Thursday at the old Yankee Stadium. Though there is a chance they will introduce both free agent hurlers, a source said this afternoon that wasn’t finalized.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....144501.htm
———-
I’m guessing they will introduce them both? Can’t wait.
Tex is NOT getting 10 years from anybody especially Sux. Sux maybe go 8/160 why couldn’t we do the same? I say we go 8/160 with a 4th year opt-out since Boras clients love opt-outs that way he’ll hit the FA market again at 32-33 and Boras can Cash in yet again. If hes playing great we can just offer him more if hes mediocre Boras would probably still tell him to opt-out its a win-win for us also the fact that Montero might be ready at that point is even more intriguing.
CB
December 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
“am I missing something or is the first time you are in on Tex?”
No. I don’t think my position has changed all that much since the end of the year.
I think Tex is a terrific player who is strong offensively and defensively.
I don’t think he’s a player who you must acquire at all costs given what he will cost and the organization’s budget priorities.
I think it’s really a matter of weighing the risks and rewards.
All I was saying was that if they want to get more hitting rather than more pitching then they should go after Tex rather than Manny or Dunn.
But that’s working under a very different set of assumptions than what the organization has up to now suggested it is prioritizing.
They generally seem to have prioritized not having more than 1 young starter in the rotation in 2010.
If that’s your priority Tex doesn’t fit.
But IF you are rethinking pitching/ Pettite – if you feel that you have enough pitching and can risk using Hughes – then they should go after Tex.
To me getting Tex is a move that depends on other factors. He’s not a must get.
But I do also think the context of the team has changed in unexpected ways.
They spent much more on CC / AJ than we were thinking they would.
And CC is really only signed for a guaranteed 3 years.
So the one thing I do really wonder about is whether the team is simply looking at their window of opportunity as the next three seasons – CC, Mo, Jeter, Posada, etc.
If the organization see’s its window as the next three years then I think they should dump the idea of a hard budget this year sign Tex and sign Pettite.
If your window is truly 3 years then the opportunity cost of waiting until next season when Damon/matsui/nady come off the books to upgrade the offense then you’ve potentially lost 33% of your window. That’s a huge opportunity cost if they don’t win.
But again – I don’t know if they really do see their window to win as the next 3 years after which their chances will decrease precipitously. No one knows that outside of Hal, Cash and a few others I’d guess.
—–
As always a well thought out response and it is exactly the way I think the yanks should be thinking. I also think Tex and Pettite is the way to go.
Now CB, add to my list so that when the decision is made I will feel better about it if we don’t get him.
Sign Tex reasons:
1- Defense at first
2- High character guy keeping us from going Manny
3- Great patient 3 hole hitter
4- Long term dependable guy at key Yankee position
5- Power and average
6- Helps win now philosophy going into new stadium
7- Gives George a better shot at another ring before he checks out
8- Another switch hitter (3) in line up and 4 if we keep Melky
9- Big bat to assist in 3 yr win window
10-Keep Boras from controlling market
11-Stick in Gammons face
13-Stick it in all anti Yankees fans faces
14-Keep from Red Sox for obvious reasons
15-Losing him to sox would raise price on Manny which we will end up paying
Don’t sign Tex reasons:
1- Too long of a commitment
2- Too much payroll in 2009
3- Because thats what we got Swisher for
4- Keep first base open for Posada,Jeter and anyone else who can’t play another position
5- Don’t want to make the rest of the league and fans mad at us for being bullies
Sorry brent – it only takes a minute to read.
john – just because the yankees are the yankees doesnt mean they have to overpay for every single talent that they buy. The idea that cameron gives us enough edge over gardner to be worth almost 10 million more is ludicrous. As i said, gardner improved in his second year in every single level. He was putting up on base percentages over 400 in triple A. Granted, the majors is a long way away from triple A but the mere fact that he improved at every level should be a high indication that he will put up better numbers in a full season next year. Raising his obp by a mere 40 points is not a huge stretch and would at that point but comparable to the obp cameron would put up. No matter what gardner hits – he will most certainly steal 40 bases by the end of the season at a minimum and represent a constant distraction to the opposing pitcher. No way cameron steals more than 15 bases next season. And brett is 25 while cameron is 36 – one has not reached his full potential while the other is in a steady decline. Im not advocating that gardner be our permanent centerfielder but the 10 million could be spent much more wisely on offense and gardner could easily be our one year stop gap at an extremely affordable rate.
iM NOT sure if any one mentioned this yet but as far as giambi and dunn comparisons go I came upon an interesting stat. Every knows giambi takes pitched with the best of them and is one of the most patient hitters actively and of all time. GIambi ranked fourth last year among active players with at least 500 at bats in pitches per plate appearance. Where is dunn? He ranked third in all of baseball. Strangely enough, despite all his failures at the plate last season Nick Swisher so how managed to rank first in this category – excellent thing to do in a career low season. And the fact that we picked this guy up for almost nothing is absolutely remarkable – Good job cashman!.
hE WILL likely put up better numbers than nady next season and do a full 180. Also interesting is that abreu ranked sixth in the majors in pitches per plate appearance. While losing abreu and giambi really hurts the overall patience of the team as a whole adding swisher and dunn to the lineup – would actually represent an improvement in this category as dunn and swisher were first and third in all of baseball – Im sure the yankees realize this as this is really the stat that defines the offense of this team. When the team as a whole is patient at the plate – we succeed. When they are not – we have an offense comparable to last year In 2007, we were fourth as a team and one of the best offenses in the MLB.
Tex was 51st in P/PA and Manny was 55th. Arod was 61st. Damon was 23rd. Cano ranked dead last among starting second baseman in the league.
I was wrong yesterday cameron not taking pitches in my post earlier – he was ninth last year. i assumed he was poor in this category considering his extremely low obp.
Dunn was also first in all of baseball with 122 walks! Tex was eighth. Manny was 17th. Tex is the only player outside of pujols to rank in the top 10 in walks and have less strikeouts than walks and ranked 10th in walks/strikeout – pujols ranked first. Man that pujols guy is pretty damn good… OK enough rambling but i thought some of this was at least marginally interesting.
“Shortly after the WS ended, I read a fascinating article in SI (wish I had favorited it) that suggested the Phillies won just because they made outs at a lesser rate than did Tampa Bay, and by sending so many men up to bat but making so few outs, they had greater opportunity to score runs than Tampa Bay and were inevitably able to do so often enough to win the Series.”
I think this is an accurate description of what happened in the WS. That’s not simply an issue of statistics at all. That was the phillies big advantage over the Rays.
Now I think that became a particular issue because of how badly the rays got on base.
If the rays had just got on base a somewhat better the phillies hitting with men on base should have killed them.
The phils were fortunate to win that series. But they were the more effective team.
I also think the point you describe in that article is very relevant to the 2008 yankees.
Much of the reason why their struggles with RISP was so obvious and became such an enormous issue was because they simply weren’t putting enough guys on base to begin with.
So every failure with RISP became that much more acute and noticed – becasue they didn’t have that many opportunities to deliver.
When you talk about hitting with RISP the deonominator really matters – it matter more than the numerator. That’s why the phils won and the 2008 yanks offense was mediocre.
I agree with you on Dunn vs. Giambi. There’s no comparison between them. Dunn is the better player.
I do like Dunn and think he’d be a valuable addition.
That said I also do believe this – Adam Dunn is a much better player than folks who are obsessed with strike outs make him out to be. But at the same time, Dunn is a much better player in a linear regression model than he is on a baseball diamond.
That sums up my take on Dunn.
dave, can i get the cliff notes for your posts?
I think this plays out such that the Red Sox will get Tex for 8/9 years and the Angels will then have to take Manny for 3+ years.
Cashman might settle for Dunn but he might have to add a bat via trade. Magglio Ordonez has one year left on his contract with the Tigers who I’ve read are looking to unload some salary. I wonder if a Nady/Kennedy/RP package might get them close.
I think Cashman is holding off on the Cameron and Pettitte deals to see where Teixeira ends up. If Teixeira doesn’t go to Boston, Cameron and Pettitte will probably be enough to go into the season feeling confident. If Teixeira is on the Red Sox, Cashman is going to go after another big bat.
?I said this earlier, and, I’ll repeat it. If NYY goes after and signs Teixeira, you can forget about having anything more than rookies and fillers in the outfield in 2010-2011. They won’t sign Holliday, too. They can’t afford that.”
GB7, I think you are being too pessimistic. Even if the Yanks sign Tex and pass on Pettitte, they’ll have $26MM plus whatever Nady gets in arbitration coming off of the books.
They will only need two players, because Jackson will
presumably have the inside track on center field.
They won’t need to sign a pitcher.
Adding it all up, if they went with Teixeira I could easily see a big signing in 2010.
as much as i’d love to see him in pinstripes, i see tex wearing orange.
Wave Your Hat
December 16th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
?I said this earlier, and, I’ll repeat it. If NYY goes after and signs Teixeira, you can forget about having anything more than rookies and fillers in the outfield in 2010-2011. They won’t sign Holliday, too. They can’t afford that.”
GB7, I think you are being too pessimistic. Even if the Yanks sign Tex and pass on Pettitte, they’ll have $26MM plus whatever Nady gets in arbitration coming off of the books.
They will only need two players, because Jackson will
presumably have the inside track on center field.
They won’t need to sign a pitcher.
Adding it all up, if they went with Teixeira I could easily see a big signing in 2010.
————————————————————
If NYY signs Teixeira this year and Holliday next year, they’ll have 170 mil tied up in 8 players.
We cannot afford to raise payroll. In this economy, luxury boxes are not selling. Between the signing of CC/AJ and the salaries/arbitration increases of Marte, Bruney, Swisher, Edwar, Wang, Cano, Melky etc. Payroll will increase to $55-$60 million without Cameron or Andy.
The goal was to lower payroll in this economy, not raise it. We are maxed out. The best we are doing is adding a utility player or two.
“as much as i’d love to see him in pinstripes, i see tex wearing orange.”
Orange? He’s going to prison? Oh you mean the O’s. Same thing, I guess.
Cliff notes of my last post
- Cameron does not represent a 10 million dollar upgrade over gardner and we could spend the money much more wisely.
- The Dunn/Swisher combo is more patient than the Giambi/Abreu combo in 2008. Cameron is more patient at plate than it would appear from obp
- Swisher had a career low and still led baseball in plate patience = deal was a steal and swisher will be real good next season
- Yankees thrive on patience at the plate and getting swisher and dunn to replace giambi and abreu would be good
- Dunn, Tex and Manny all walk a lot – 1st, 8th and 17th
- Pujols is absolutely ridiculous in every category of hitting
“add to my list so that when the decision is made I will feel better about it if we don’t get him.”
Yankee Trader,
Making a list like that is only so helpful. When you make a list like that is sort of assumes that all of the individual reasons carry equal importance.
But that’s almost never the case with any decision.
You have to assign some kind of weight to each one of those +/- and then come out to see which would be the better choice.
For instance, too much payroll in 2009 may be 100x more important than good defense so even though there are more +’s the -’s will win.
That’s ultimately what all of this conversation is about.
We can each have our own weights. But ultimately only the organization can accurately assign how important those individual issues are.
If I had to guess, the prospect of taking on more long term fixed costs and the limitations in terms of roster flexibility are the two biggest issues the yankees are concerned with.
They already have ARod and CC signed to large fixed cost contracts and ARod signed until the age of 42. They may also see themselves as having Jeter until 40 as they may think they will never be able to take the PR hit of getting rid of him.
I think those two factors – long term fixed costs and flexibility – probably carry much more weight than any other +’s or -’s and that’s what’s driving this decision on their part.
If they sign a bat or trade for Cameron, they are going to need to trade one of Damon/Matsui/Nady. There just aren’t enough spots in the lineup. Nady would probably make the most sense to be the one to go.
But if they trade for Cameron and move Nady, who plays RF? Matsui and Damon have no arm.
I think Damon has some value too, but I feel the Yanks would still need a leadoff. I like the idea of Juan Pierre for leadoff/CF. He’s expendable in LA with their abundance of OFers, tons of speed, gets on base a little less than Damon, but he can still cover ground in CF.
That would enable them to keep Nady in right and Matsui as DH and have an opening in LF for Dunn/Manny/Dye. Although Dye would play right and Nady in LF.
Personally, I would go Dye, Nady, Pierre in the outfield with matsui as DH.
“Carlos Pena, Upton, Longoria, Crawford,
and
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
scare me a hell of a lot more than
Jeter-Matsui-Arod-Posada-Nady”
for The Rays:
probably add Giambi or Abreau to the line-up they both are wanted by the Rays..
as far as Yanks
Jeter: Far from clutch last year and a year older
Matsui: Knee surgery watcha gonna get
Arod: Like a virgin
Posada: Off injury again.. watcha gonna get
Nady: Will he have another good year?
Cano: Whono?
there is too many what-if’s and too much optimism that posada, cano, matsui are going to have good years ..
You guys seem to be overly optimistic.. where you this way at the beginning of last season as well?
For me:
Gonna be strange to watch a Yankee Season in hopes of pitching to hold down the fort instead of hitting smashing down the others..
Money aside for a sec, I just don’t see how people are not drooling over Tex for his offense and his gold glove defense.
Sox with Tex is a very intimidating team..
pedroia, yuke, ortiz, tex, drew, bay ..
get real if you think the yanks offense can compete with that.
memo: NYY is not signing Tex.
If Dunn is truly available on a short-term deal for around $13 million/year, that looks like a pretty attractive option for a team that wants to win now, has some money, and needs to add some offensive firepower. I mean, come on. The guy has hit 40 or more HR the last 5 years in a row.
Put Damon in center, move Swisher to left, play Dunn at 1st.
Gardner is better offensively and defensivley than Cameron
He is younger, faster, and puts more balls in play which result in more infield singles and fielding errors trying to hurry up to throw him out.
Gardner is a weapon at the bottom of the order, whereas Cameron is a liability due to his age, strikeouts, and lack of explosion.
I’d like to see Ca$hman give Ambiorix Burgos a minor league deal. Dude has a live arm when healthy.
Oh and cano’s plate discipline so far is horrific – he was last in all of baseball among starting second baseman in P/PA
“If NYY signs Teixeira this year and Holliday next year, they’ll have 170 mil tied up in 8 players.”
I haven’t added it up but I take your word for it. What were you assuming Holliday goes for?
That said, I think they’ll have to if they go with Teixeira, because they’ll have to replace at least a good chunk of Damon, Matsui and Nady.
If they don’t go with Teixeira, though, they will have to replace an even bigger chunk.
But maybe your argument is that by going with Cameron and Pettitte, they’ll have the $20MM from those two guys coming off of the books too, which will be replaced by low salary guys in Hughes and Jackson, so they will have $46MM plus whatever Nady gets in arbitration to replace Damon, Matsui and Nady?
That certainly gets them a lot next year if they want it. But I think you just spend it on two guys like Tex and Holliday, except Tex won’t be available.
“I’d like to see Ca$hman give Ambiorix Burgos a minor league deal. Dude has a live arm when healthy.”
Hes currently jailed in the DR after killing 2 women.
Ever since Texeria hit the scene with Texas I’ve been waiting for this off season with the hope that he’d end up in the Bronx…The timing was perfect as The Giambino’s contract was to expire at the same time…..I still hold out that they make a run at him…He’s a rare a ballplayer who’s best seasons lie ahead……
Give up the Tex dream… even Heyman, the Boras schill, has backed off the claim we are interested in Tex. Not one legit news outlet has stated that we are seriously perusing him.
Manny is a different story. If the price drops, we’ll be interested in him.
“E-Man: I notice you didn’t include OPS in those stats, but I don’t even have to look to know that Dunn’s is higher than Abreu’s in those situations, or any other situation.
I’m not diametrically opposed to Abreu, but Dunn is a much scarier hitter, and they’re both defensive hacks so I’ll take the hack who’s gonna hit 50 HR as well as posting an OBP over .400.”
OPS with RISP is not a good stat to look at. You want a guy with a high average and if possible high obp in that situation. A base hit could end up being just as good as a HR.
“I said this earlier, and, I’ll repeat it. If NYY goes after and signs Teixeira, you can forget about having anything more than rookies and fillers in the outfield in 2010-2011. They won’t sign Holliday, too. They can’t afford that.”
Teixeira is a much better player on offense and defense than Holliday. It’s not close and when Holliday plays in Oakland, it will be even easier to see. Now, if the Yankees sign Teixeira, Swisher will move to the outfield, unless you see him getting traded.
That gives you A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, Cano, Swisher, Posada, and Austin Jackson so all you’d need is a left fielder and a DH/C.
Casey, you had a better outfield on the ‘62 Mets than this one.
“Personally, I would go Dye, Nady, Pierre in the outfield with matsui as DH.”
Marv Throneberry at 1st base is the only thing that would make things perfect….for you.
I dunno if gardner is better defensively but he is comparable to cameron and he could easily be just as good offensively – put the money into dunn or the first year of a Teixera deal. Taking tex and taking him away from the sox would be a beautiful thing
Al, You still in school in Binghamton?
Magglio Ordonez has one year left on his contract with the Tigers who I’ve read are looking to unload some salary. A package of Nady, Kennedy, and Robertson might do it.
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Matsui DH
Arod 3B
Ordonez RF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher 1B
Gardner CF
Dunn in Yankee Stadium will put up orgasmic numbers
“Gardner is better offensively and defensivley than Cameron”
False.
CB-
That was Frank’s list @ 5:05 I was responding to. These were my thoughts earlier.
I’ve heard a lot of names thrown out and IMO here are my thoughts.
Teixeira:
Yankees and their fans would love to have Teixeira, but it’s not going to happen. He’ll go home to Baltimore, or go to Boston, unless Angels give him a monster contract with an opt out clause.
Manny:
Will go to one of the LA teams.
Nick Johnson:
Yankees IMO have no interest, or should they.
Joey Votto:
Yankees will not trade the farm away for him.
Dunn:
Only an option if Matsui and his surgically repaired knee + NTC can be moved, like ASAP, which stands zero chance.
Cameron:
Makes no sense to trade for him, pay him 10M, then pay most of Igawas 12M on top of that. Let Brewers wait- they’re hungry to free up payroll so they can sign a closer-Fuentes. Anyway Cameron no better defensively than what we have, and I’m sure they can trade some of our surplus relief pithching or minor league arms for a younger cheaper alternative.
Pettitte:
Yankees exploring other short term options, while waiting on Pettitte. Will not go,IMO, with Hughes/Aceves as #4 and Joba as #5 to limit his innings. Brad Penny?
Furcal:
If deals the same bet he goes back to Dodgers over Braves, where he’s guaranteed to play SS. Rosenberg, again tried to beat the crowd with his rumors that it was a done deal.
“Al, You still in school in Binghamton?”
No, couldn’t pay for it.
I think Ordonez has some sort of option for 2010 based on how much he plays in 2009. It’s supposed to be really easy for him to reach and I think it’s like $18 million for 2010.
Wave Your Hat
December 16th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
“If NYY signs Teixeira this year and Holliday next year, they’ll have 170 mil tied up in 8 players.”
I haven’t added it up but I take your word for it. What were you assuming Holliday goes for?
————————————————————
20 mil for Holliday. Should NYY sign Teixeira and Holliday, it looks like this:
Rodrigues – 28 mil
Sabathia – 23 mil
Jeter – 20 mil
Teixeira 23 mil
Holliday -20 mil
Burnett – 18 mil
Rivera – 15 mil
Posada 14 mil
Rough guess on the low side is 160 mil and high side is 170 mil
There seems to be concern in Boston about a declining Ortiz. If that be the case, how much impact could Teixeira provide ?
Boston’s best recent years centered around a healthy (?) Ortiz with Manny as protection. Can Teixeira provide the same ?
“I think Ordonez has some sort of option for 2010 based on how much he plays in 2009. It’s supposed to be really easy for him to reach and I think it’s like $18 million for 2010.”
All the more reason for him to put up big numbers in 2009.
Robert Sarver didn’t clap or even bother to look toward D’Antoni, when he was introduced last night in Phoenix.
not able to type (in this blog) my opinion of Robert Sarver. The MF is the reason the Suns never won a championsip, and have turned from contender to a demolition site. A owner who traded Joe Johnson, Nate Robertson, and auctioned his draft selections to the highest bidder.
“Ever since Texeria hit the scene with Texas I’ve been waiting for this off season with the hope that he’d end up in the Bronx…The timing was perfect as The Giambino’s contract was to expire at the same time…..I still hold out that they make a run at him…He’s a rare a ballplayer who’s best seasons lie ahead……”
I agree I had this off-season circled for awhile its just not looking likely atm.
Greenberet7,
What realistic option is better?
Nady/Damon/Cameron
Matsui/Gardner/Nady
Damon/Gardner/Nady
They all put fear into the hearts of opposing pitchers.
Let me try one of the pie-in-the-sky trade ideas people throw out there all the time;
Manny/Beltran/Hamilton
I’m sure Beltran and Hamilton could be received in trades based around Melky/Igawa/Gardner.
That would be much better than the ‘62 Mets!
Or the Yanks can just sign Manny and Tex and worry about the lineup later.
GB7-
Your list looks about dead on to me.
I want to expand your point about the Yanks having so much money locked up in a few players.
Given their aging roster (Posada, Jeter), guys ending contracts (Damon, Matsui), relatively inflexible long-term pitching rotation (CC, AJ, Wang (who will only get pricier), Chamberlain (wo will only get pricier)), and relative lack of minor league hitters close to the majors (Jackson and who else?), I don’t think the Yanks have any choice but to spend if they expect to compete.
The Red Sox and Rays are younger, and are just going to get better, which keeps the pressure on.
The Yanks will need to replace the production they get from Damon and Matsui, and replace the declining production they will receive from Posada and Jeter.
Only Jackson is likely to help in the nearish term from the farm.
They will need to spend big to remain competitive, it seems to me.
“If they sign a bat or trade for Cameron, they are going to need to trade one of Damon/Matsui/Nady. There just aren’t enough spots in the lineup. Nady would probably make the most sense to be the one to go.”
Why not have Damon in left, Cameron in center, Nady in right, and Matsui at DH?
Signing tex puts our payroll at around 200 million. Taking matsui and damon off the payroll as well as nady is more than enough money to pay for the first year of holliday. Especially considering the potential number of starters that could be making very little money – Joba, Hughes, Gardner, Ajax, the wide majority of the bullpen, Montero, Kennedy, etc.
Matsui and damon are each making 13 million next season. Nady could be making around 5 million i would think. That is a grand total of 31 million next season and 26 million if nady stays to play right. Moreover, the yanks could sign tex and put swisher at right field making nady expendable following next season. Gardner mans center until Ajax is ready for the majors. No way Holliday costs more than 20 million per leaving us with 11 million. Swisher in right, Ajax in center and Holliday in left. Montero could catch and posada dh or the other way around. We have all five rotation spots filled with jOBA/hUGHES/Kennedy/Aceves and others taking the last two. The 11 million could be used to fill whatever holes we have thereafter. Signing Tex is perfectly feasible.
We’ve reduced ourselves talking about a bunch of medium-rate OF’s, slightly better than medium-rate but already expensive, and older former all star OF’s under big contracts like they’re all the ultimate difference maker worth millions of dollars and our only options. Or we’re talking about Manny as if he’s the only guy who can carry the team to the world series.
Screw all that. What kind of talent would we have to give up to swing a trade for someone with a long-term up side like Justin Upton to anchor the OF? Yeah, he’s not established yet (he’s only 21) and he only hit about .250 but I’ve heard he’s got more raw talent than his brother BJ. Could he be gotten for a more reasonable deal than Mike Cameron? By reasonable I don’t mean just switching Upton for Cameron in the Melky deal. Arizona would want more … maybe we can give them a little more and throw in Igawa and a set of tires for free. Nobody can say Cameron’s a better idea than Upton because he’s more established, because Cameron’s only a .250 hitter too. Upton has upside though.
I’m sure Arizona’s not thinking to trade Upton away but if it was made to be worth their while maybe they’d think about it.
OK so maybe not necessarily Upton, but nobody’s thinking outside the box on anyone really good to play the OF. Everyone being mentioned isn’t close to stud level.
Why isn’t anyone conjuring a trade (just for example) for Carlos Lee at $12M instead of Cameron ($10mil) which also GREATLY reduces the ‘need’ for Manny. It doesn’t have to be Melky straight up … think Melky plus … ???? Or Matsui + Melky (or more) for Ichiro?
Bottom line… Teixeria is going to terrorize the Yankees for the next 10 years when he is hitting bombs off Sabathia and Burnett and hitting 40 HRs and playing gold glove defense for Boston.
Trust me… Teix in Boston is a nightmare scenario. They have a rotation to match us already AND they’re have unequivocally the best offense in baseball.+
Ordonez contract:
18M for 2009
15M, 3M buyout club option 2010
15M, no buyout 2011
Not advocating trading for Ordonez, essentially for 18M+3M buyout, if plan only for one year.
Lost:
Just as you say no one can assume that Posada, Matsui et al will have good years, you also can’t assume they won’t. Barring injury, the best barometer will be season averages, even if you lower by a few degrees. That brings Posada, Matsui, Cano, Jeter, etc. to solid, productive seasons, although not amazing ones. We don’t know what Nady will bring, but, with a full offseason of studying AL pitching, he should continue to adjust and hit for average and power.
Secondly, you can’t say “money aside” because if it wasn’t a money issue, everyone would be incredibly excited to have Tex join the Yankees. But money is the central issue. No one is questioning the guy’s talent. It’s the cost to acquire that talent that has me and others saying ‘no thanks’.
The idea that ‘all this money is coming off the books’ means ‘lets get the payroll back to where it has been’ is faulty reasoning. I’m glad they spent the money on pitching. Seeing as how they nearly made the playoffs with Rasner, Ponson and a ragtag group of stopgaps, and without Matsui, Posada and Cano, it’s more than reasonable to think that the Yankees have a good chance to take the division with the injured (and disappearing) players returning and the addition of A+ pitching with CC, AJ and Wang.
I’d love to have Tex. But not at the cost that’s been thrown out there.
Al,
Tex also has been dreaming the same thing.. but these fans here are convinced it won’t happen.. in case you haven’t noticed the bite on everything the media says and enforces it… ask them how many thought Arod was coming back and what they were saying about him as a result.
I love how people say: “Tex will do this or that” as if they called him already and asked.. they have opinions and they try to state them as facts.
strange personalities if you ask me.
I for one would love to have Tex and will always embrace getting a player that has puts up those numbers and has also always dream of playing with the Yankees.
oh but we can’t afford him… cry me a river.
no.27
December 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
“I said this earlier, and, I’ll repeat it. If NYY goes after and signs Teixeira, you can forget about having anything more than rookies and fillers in the outfield in 2010-2011. They won’t sign Holliday, too. They can’t afford that.”
Teixeira is a much better player on offense and defense than Holliday. It’s not close and when Holliday plays in Oakland, it will be even easier to see. Now, if the Yankees sign Teixeira, Swisher will move to the outfield, unless you see him getting traded.
That gives you A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, Cano, Swisher, Posada, and Austin Jackson so all you’d need is a left fielder and a DH/C.
————————————————————
There are no or very few outfielders on the FA market in 2010. Based on that, I’d go with Holliday.
“R-Tek
December 16th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Carlos Pena, Upton, Longoria, Crawford,
and
Pedroia, Youkallis, Teixeria, Ortiz, Drew
scare me a hell of a lot more than
Jeter-Matsui-Arod-Posada-Nady”
Possibly, but as a group I personally like Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Joba, Coke, Veras, Bruney, Marte, Rivera better than Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakfield, Ramirez, Okajima Masterson, Papelbon or Kazmir, Shields, Garza, Price, Balfour, Howell, Wheeler, Percival.
vinny – you a suns fan?
By the way that scenario gives us a powerful lineup of AJax, Jeter, Holliday, Arod, Tex, Posada, Montero, Cano, Swisher. Only on the yankees would a guy like Mark Teixeira bat fifth – talk about a nasty lineup. The rotation would work out to CC, wang, AJ, Joba, Hughes with potential aces at every spot. Not even including the potential successes or failures of Ajax, Montero, Joba and Hughes – this is certainly the best team in the AL east bar none.
“They will need to spend big to remain competitive, it seems to me.”
They will trade young pitching. If Burnett works out and Brackman looks good out I could see them potentially move Wang.
I tend to agree with GB7. Unless they have revenue projections that are much higher than we’re guessing I can’t see them locking in that much money into so few players.
Which is why I think it’s unlikely that they’ll get Tex.
Can anybody tell me if Kennedy + Melky for Justin Upton is better for us or better for Arizona? How about switching or adding Coke to the deal? Add cash? Ask for more picks or AA players in return?
If I were Cash I’d offer Tex a 6 Year deal($150 mil) and stress to Boras Tex will get another contract when he’s through at 34.
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
Arod 3B
Nady LF
Matsui DH
Posada C
Swisher RF
Cano 2B
Thats lineup plus a Starting 5 of
1)C.C
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
5)Joba
Should have the Yankees as the team to beat.
Wave Your Hat — I have to agree. The offense just isn’t good enough right now. Too many aging, injured question marks. Only one more season of Damon and Matsui is actually a good thing. It will force the team to get younger and more athletic in 2010. Cameron is just another ancient mariner.
Tampa Bay is young, aggressive and will force mistakes with its speed. The Yankees, as currently constituted, will not be able to do this. Pitching will be much better in ‘09, but the lineup definitely needs another big bat.
“What kind of talent would we have to give up to swing a trade for someone with a long-term up side like Justin Upton to anchor the OF?”
He’s probably the most untouchable player in baseball.
You can’t trade for him. If you tried you’d have to start with Joba and Hughes and then add on.
There’s absolutely no way they are ever going to trade him.
He’s the most talented player to enter the game since Alex.
“vinny – you a suns fan”
steve: dating back to ‘88 (when i lived in AZ). Kevin Johnson, Horacek, etc. And Pacers have always been my 2nd team
: )
Anybody like Upton & A-Jax in the OF in ‘10? … Anybody? … Anybody? …. Bueller?
“Which is why I think it’s unlikely that they’ll get Tex.”
My head tells me you are right. With Pettitte and Cameron, they have a good chance of making the playoffs in 2009.
In 2010, they replace Pettitte with Hughes and Cameron with Jackson. That leaves them a ton of money with which to replace Damon, Matsui and Nady.
They have minor league pitching to trade assuming it continues to develop.
But for some reason, my heart wants them to go ahead and get Teixeira now. I still think he’s the best hitter that will be available until 2011.
Actually Outfielders are more plentiful next year.
Outfielders * denotes club option
Rick Ankiel STL
Jason Bay BOS
Marlon Byrd TEX
Frank Catalanotto TEX
Endy Chavez SEA
Coco Crisp * KC
Carl Crawford * TB
Johnny Damon NYY
David Dellucci CLE
Jermaine Dye * CWS
Ryan Freel BAL
Brian Giles SD
Vladimir Guerrero LAA
Matt Holliday OAK
Geoff Jenkins * PHI
Reed Johnson CHC
Andruw Jones LAD
Austin Kearns * WAS
Hideki Matusi NYY
Jason Michaels CLE
Xavier Nady NYY
Magglio Ordonez * DET
Dave Roberts SF
Gary Sheffield DET
Jason Werth PHI
Randy Winn SF
Yeah I heard Upton’s pretty good. Is there anyone even halfway between him and Cameron we could shoot for trading on? Even that sounds better than $10M for Cameron to me.
“I still think he’s the best hitter that will be available until 2011.”
Before anyone corrects me, Manny is probably the better hitter. But after deducting Matsui I don’t think he helps as much as Tex.
If the Yankees signed Teixeira they’d have around $170 million tied up in 11 players for 2010:
31-ARod
23-CC
22-Tex
21-Jeter
16.5-Burnett
15-Mariano
13.1-Posada
9-Cano
?8-Wang
6.75-Swisher
4-Marte
Joba and Hughes close out the rotation, Austin Jackson takes over in centerfield. The only holes are in LF and DH/C. I don’t think it would be a stretch for them to fill out the 40-man roster for a total of $190 million.
Maybe if we offer Igawa & Jessica Simpson it could happen …
Wave Your Hat
December 16th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
GB7-
Your list looks about dead on to me.
I want to expand your point about the Yanks having so much money locked up in a few players.
Given their aging roster (Posada, Jeter), guys ending contracts (Damon, Matsui), relatively inflexible long-term pitching rotation (CC, AJ, Wang (who will only get pricier), Chamberlain (wo will only get pricier)), and relative lack of minor league hitters close to the majors (Jackson and who else?), I don’t think the Yanks have any choice but to spend if they expect to compete.
The Red Sox and Rays are younger, and are just going to get better, which keeps the pressure on.
The Yanks will need to replace the production they get from Damon and Matsui, and replace the declining production they will receive from Posada and Jeter.
Only Jackson is likely to help in the nearish term from the farm.
They will need to spend big to remain competitive, it seems to me.
————————————————————
People need to be really careful about expecting Jackson coming in and start tearing it up in 2010. He should be in NY, barring any setbacks. If his first year is average or less, NYY will be in trouble. His defense is close to MLB ready, but, use caution in figuring him to be a big difference maker in the first couple of years. His bat is not likely to be Bernie Williams type. He’s more like a right handed Granderson with a tad less speed.
The only outfielder that’s as close to the NYY would be Colin Curtis, and he’s a Chad Curtis type player. The rest of them are 2011-2012 away, unless they rush them. Their defense is totally minor league right now, but, should improve with more instruction. One outfielder I have hope for is Seth Fortenberry, who’ll be in Trenton in 2009. Outstanding outfielder in all three spots…great arm, speed and 25 homer power…Paul O’Neill type…complete with temper (at his own failures).
Why are people saying that Girardi can’t handle Manny?
Girardi won’t have to police Manny…. A-Rod will help with that. They are friends, A-rod will be able to tame Manny.
“My head tells me you are right. With Pettitte and Cameron, they have a good chance of making the playoffs in 2009.
In 2010, they replace Pettitte with Hughes and Cameron with Jackson. That leaves them a ton of money with which to replace Damon, Matsui and Nady.”
This is the most rational plan. Which is why it seems to be their plan.
But I understand what you mean about what you’d prefer in your heart. That’s the nature of fandom.
But the above plan or even the above plan + Manny on a two-three year deal just makes too much sense. It sets them up for the future very well.
If they could ever afford to trade Wang they would get a haul back for him.
I think they’ve been looking to have the roster cleaned out by 2010 for a long time.
If they do feel that they need more offense and the above is their plan, Manny makes a lot more sense than Tex even though they won’t win as many games with Manny as they will with Tex.
We’ll see. Manny could be an intermediate roll of the dice.
Matsui to 1b????
“Anybody like Upton & A-Jax in the OF in ‘10? … Anybody? … Anybody? …. Bueller?”
You would’ve gotten a more fruitful response if you said Pujols instead of Justin Upton (maybe). Why would the DBacks want to unload a cost-controlled multi-talented player with a TON of potential for spare parts?
Is Manny+gardner/melky better than Matsui and Camereon?
Read an article that said Andruw is getting into shape for his next contract and his knee’s supposedly healthy. Not to say NY should chase him (he’d sure be pricey) but he might have a better year in ‘09 so he’d mae decent money somewhere.
Just trying to scare up some new ideas that’s all … everything I read seems like a rerun.
BTW – Gammons was on SportsCenter a few minutes go… said Teixeria decision is coming soon and it is between the Sox/Angels unless the Nats completely blow him away
I don’t think the Yankees would need much more offense if they had A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, Cano, Swisher, and Posada in the middle of the order.
have to love the NCAA hierachy.
1) they thumb their noses at the public, and refuse to implement any playoff system.
2) continue in their refusal, to hire black head coaches.
totally unacceptable.
Ok, I think the Yankees improved their rotation, provided AJ stays healthy.
IF the Sox get Teixeira, their lineup is clearly superior and their rotation is strong as well. You’d have to give the advantage to them on paper for 2009.
I agree with Pete, I don’t think the Yanks will get Teixeira or Ramirez and I am expecting 2009 to be another transition year, likely without playoff appearance but with an improvement of +2, +4 wins, especially with an offense that could perform below last year’s results. In a year or two, I hope folks like AJax, Montero and others will come up to compliment what we already have in Cano (he’ll rebound), ARod, etc. I’d be OK with this—in fact, I am—but the one thing that gives me pause is the opt-out in year three of CC’s contract. If they don’t make a push to win now, then his signing may be for naught. I am only basing this on a gut feeling, but his reservations about playing in NYC bug me a bit, and I don’t know if he’ll go the way of Randy Johnson, never quite connecting with the place.
I love NYC, it is my home and I think it’s the best place on earth. Not everyone does, and the reason this opt out exists is cause for concern.
On another note, I appreciate the defiantly positive positions of stalwarts like Trisha, et al. Thanks for being so optimistic, it is fun and funny to read your posts.
thats why the NCAA is a joke
To me, Posada is the big monkey wrench here. If Cash didn’t have to worry about keeping the DH spot warm for Jorge, then he could go out and sign Adam Dunn.
unn could play RF this year (sell high on Nady this offseason) – then pencil him into the DH role, along with his 40 hrs and 100+ walks. Like Ortiz is in Boston, Dunn could be a monster in the Bronx. Oh well… I guess there was a pretty big side-effect of Minaya driving up the price on Posada.
BTW, did anyone know that Dunn hit *exactly* 40 homers in each of the last 4 years. Maybe it was brought up already, but I found it interesting.
get manny only if he’s desperate- and on a short term deal. If he manages to behave, which is hard to believe, he could be the TO of baseball- he is the best hitter in the league to have behind A-Rod.
signing dunn makes the most sense because he can hit 4 and arod can hit 3. the whole lineup is cheaper, and the pitching is already strong. Just give Phil Hughes (3.35 proj era) the fifth spot. 190 million payroll and WS win.
Imagine if the Angels get Tex AND Manny?
Might as well hand them the WS title.
Why don’t people understand that pitching is far more important than offense?
Tampa Bay’s offense didn’t even score 800 runs and won 97 games. We have scored almost 1000 and not won 97 games. CC and Burnett upgrade our rotation so significantly that we don’t even need to think about getting a big bat. We have so many great hitters on our team and still probably have one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in baseball if things break as expected. Even if they break a little worse than expected, I still see us as a top 5 offense and a top 2 pitching.
We’re going to go into the season as either the favorites for the WS or 2nd in line to the Red Sox if we go with the roster we have right now.
And I fully believe that if things break as most reasonably expected, we will make the playoffs and that our rotation will be the best rotation in the playoffs.
Lots of great dialogue today. One question: Doesn’t Ordonez have rice crispy knees?
“I agree with Pete, I don’t think the Yanks will get Teixeira or Ramirez and I am expecting 2009 to be another transition year, likely without playoff appearance but with an improvement of +2, +4 wins, especially with an offense that could perform below last year’s results. ”
I think every year needs to be a (kind of)transition year. Every move has to be met with skepticism of whether or not it is best for the franchise as it moves forward.
Also, don’t be so sure that the playoffs will be out of reach next year. Tampa will regress… simply because, for the first time ever, they’ll have a target on their back. This is the way the Yanks and Red Sox play every year. Minnesota and Cleveland will be better, but I think the ChiSox will take a step back. If they can stay healthy, the Yanks’ pitching is just way too good to not win 95+ games.
Dave, you’re absolutely wrong on the economics. Brett Gardner is a terrible player in a premium position. Even if his OBP magically jumped 40 points (since he can’t hit an ML fastball, I doubt it), he wouldn’t be half as productive as Cameron. He doesn’t even have warning track power, and the 3B he ran himself into in the minors against inferior defensive play/arms just won’t happen in the MLB.
The economic analysis on marginal wins from a premium position indicates that the Yankees couldn’t do any better. Cameron is a known quantity. His speed his diminished but he steals bases well. League average hitting out of a premium position is worth many, many runs over Gardner…who’s never even played more than 120 games in a season.
I mean, if the choice were between Adam Dunn, who’s undervalued, and Mike Cameron, who’s not that good and only available/wanted for a year, then you’re right. There are better ways to spend the money. But as a straight up deal to clear Melky (abominable) and Igawa? You’d have to be senseless to pass on it. And that’s even if Cameron is JUST LEAGUE AVERAGE.
Pitching wins championships, but getting good pitching shouldn’t preclude upgrading the lineup.
If it’s at the expense of good pitching, no. But we’ve got good pitching. If it makes sense, upgrade the lineup. If not, go with what you have and hope for the best.
But we have to remember that you have to score to win.
Is there really a difference between Dunn and Betemit? Both look like awfull similar players.
Why would we want another Betemit on the team when we just got rid of him?
Every run tou give up is, theoretically, two you have to score.
My argument, Mel, is that we have the offense we need to score to win.
Damon
Jeter
Matsui
Arod
Posada
Nady
Cano
Swisher
Cabrera
While some of those are weaker offensive players, it should be expected that Matsui, Arod, Jeter, Posada, Cano, Cabrera, and Swisher all produce better this coming season than the previous one. Add in Cameron and the increase is even better. If they each do it by creating 5-10 more runs, which is not too much to expect, then the net increase from our pitching gains combined with those increases (accounting for Abreu and Giambi) should get us to at the very least 95 wins.
If you want consistency in two years. Look at Vinny Castilla in 1996 and 1997.
http://www.baseball-reference......vi02.shtml
we need damon back
Adam Dunn cannot hit left-handers nor does he drive in baserunners. He hits 40 HRs for sure, but only 50-60 men on base. That is because his strikes out rate is historical in magnitude. How I like a player who can drive in a run from second with a hit or hit a fly ball with a runner on third. Didn’t we see enough of that last year?
Tom,
I realize that. Like I said, we have primo pitching. But you can’t win if you can’t score, no matter how good your pitching is.
We aren’t at the either/or point. We’ve already taken care of the pitching.
I can accept the “we’ve spent enough money” argument for not getting Tex or Manny. But I cannot accept “pitching wins championships” as an excuse not to get them because we already have the pitching.
“We have so many great hitters on our team and still probably have one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in baseball if things break as expected. Even if they break a little worse than expected, I still see us as a top 5 offense”
The Yankees scored the 7th most runs in the AL and 10th most overall last season. They replace Abreu and Giambi with Nady and Swisher. If you think Swisher AND Cano will have rebound years AND Matsui AND Posada will be healthy all year AND they have no other major injuries AND none of their guys have a down year they could have a top 5 offense.
“Is there really a difference between Dunn and Betemit? Both look like awfull similar players.”
What?
“Every run tou give up is, theoretically, two you have to score.”
I’ve always heard this, but it makes little sense to me. An average team scores about 5 runs a game – do they need to score 10 to win?
If the Brewers are willing to take Igawa the Yankees have to find a way to complete the deal. Plus I would rather see Cameron in CF over Gardner.
As of right now, the only way we’re going to win the WS is if we have a season like the 2005 White Sox. Those are the types of games we’re going to have to win.
This offense is a far cry from the 2004-2007 one. We are the definition of average. Our offense is resembling that of the Brewers and Chi Sox last year… HRs, strikeouts, no speed, bad defense.
People need to realize this offense isin’t that good.
“What?”
Don’t even try. It’s not worth it.
Saw in the NY Post that the Yankees have scheduled a press conference for 1 p.m. Thursday at the old Yankee Stadium, when they will introduce both of their new pitchers. I assume that YES will cover it. That would mean tearing away from an hour of Mike Francesa, but I think we can all survive.
What kind of hitter is Adam Dunn that you don’t want? The kind who clobbers premium pitchers like Carlos Zambrano? The kind who’s on base four out of every 10 times he comes to the plate? The one who hits a HR every 13 AB? 206 HR in 5 years and he’s making nothing close to Giambi money and his value has been brought down by DUSTY BAKER and sportswriters. Any time Dusty Baker doesn’t like someone, you have to JUMP.
Lets say the yanks trade for cameron and sign pettitte and we have spent 20 million on a mediocre centerfielder and a fourth/fifth starter for one season each when we could have used that same 20 mil to sign tex for 9 years but we wanted one year deals.
That leaves us with matsui, damon, pettitte and cameron all gone – That is 46 million off the books. And that doesnt include nady or any other minor amount of salary. So now we have holes in all three outfield positions and/or a hole at first base. Swisher could stay at first or move to right and Holliday could easily be had for left field. Ajax would potentially step in for center. Posada could be moved to first and Montero could be brought up to catch and we leave the dh spot free and have 26 mil or so left in payroll to spend on free agents. We have no significant holes at any positions except dh i guess or first base if posada becomes permanent dh. fURTHER, swisher could play first leaving a hole in right field. Potential free agents to boost our offense include not much more than vlad outside of holliday and he would take up most of the time at dh.
On the other hand, we dont trade for cameron, dont sign pettitte and put the 20 mil towards the first year of tex. Next year, we move swisher to right, bring ajax up in center. Nady, mATSUI AND damon come off the books – 31 mil and we put 20 mil of that towards holliday in left. Posada moves to dh and montero takes over.
Both potentially cost the same amount of money here, which lineup would you pick: one with vlad at dh or tex at first base?
Considering their ages, defensive prowess and length of signing – i will take tex – much better plate discipline, gold glove defense, doesnt hog the dh spot with the likes of posada and jeter potential takers and Tex is significantly younger. Vlad is great but comes with many problems. So get tex now and get holliday later because if we dont get tex now, there isnt going to be many other options next season with that ridiculous amount of money coming off for cameron, pettitte, damon, matsui and nady. Not to mention, we have no idea what hollidays preference is next year or how he will fare in the AL of if ajax will really be ready by next season.
myrtlebeach,
I’m willing to battle with what we’ve got, too.
But just as you can never have too much money, you can never score too many runs.
If the Yankees had the opportunity to grab Manny for 2-3 years, I’d like to see them take it.
Otherwise, no big deal. I’m open to whatever the Yankees choose.
“we need damon back”
Where’s he going?
We were 7th in offense last year and we are losing 50 HRs/200 RBIs from Giambi/Abreu. We are replacing them with 2 high strikeout/low average hitters in Cameron and Swisher.
We are basically throwing all our chips on the table and banking on all of last year’s guys having bounce back years, which is not a smart strategy for a team with a $200 million dollar payroll.
Pitching wins championships is a myth. Balance wins championships.
Adam Dunn can’t hit LHP. Right. Only 1 HR every 16 AB and an OBP of .360. If you can OPS 773 from your weak side, we should have so many problems. If 33% of his hits are HR from the left side, couldn’t care less.
He hits most of his HR with the bases empty because every hitter in history has that distribution. Maybe because every hitter in history HAS MORE AB WITH THE BASES EMPTY. Because it’s baseball played in real life, not baseball played in a video game console.
If you don’t believe me, take a look at Jeter’s distribution chart. A full 140 of his 206 HR have come with the bases empty. Much worse than Dunn’s mark, and Jeter plays on a team where he gets more AB with men on base.
So Adam Dunn should not only hit 40 HR a year, he should distribute them situationally in a way that no hitter ever has?
mel,
Maybe we could afford some hitting if we didn’t bid against ourselves (nearly doubling the Brewers offer) for CC.
How does nobody see that we need another big bat? Our offense was dreadful last year…we scored 780 runs. Now we dont have Giambi and Abreu. As of right now, the lineup looks like this:
LF Damon
SS Jeter
RF Nady
3B ARod
DH Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
1B Swisher
CF Melky
Upgrading CF from Melky to Cameron would help some, but Cameron isnt exactly an offensive juggernaut either. How can anyone be happy with that lineup? ARod has ZERO protection. Jeter and Damon are a year older. Who knows what we will get from Posada, and who really knows what to expect from Cano either.
We need a big bat. Gotta get Tex or Manny. The offense is not championship caliber as currently constructed.
Another thing to remember is that offensive futility puts pressure on the pitchers. Give a pitcher a lead he can take gambles that’ll pay off. Expand the strike zone, get the ball out of the sweet spot. Give him insufficient support, it can be a high-wire act.
Another thing to remember is that offensive futility puts pressure on the pitchers. Give a pitcher a lead he can take gambles that’ll pay off. Expand the strike zone, get the ball out of the sweet spot. Give him insufficient support, it can be a high-wire act.
I think Andy will re-sign. But I say forget this Cameron trade for now (we can always come back to it) and try to sign Rocco Baldelli. I’d really love him added to out lineup. And as much as I’ve enjoyed watching Cameron over the years I honestly think Bill Hall would be a better pickup from them so… But I really like Baldelli as a cheap signing and a guy who can move to a corner spot when AJAX is ready.
Cal Bears,
Don’t get me started on that. Pat doesn’t want to hear it anymore.
StevenM47:
I don’t know. If you’re trying to beat the NL All Star team with that roster, good luck.
But if you’re putting together an MLB lineup for everyday competition, uh, good job.
I mean, was I dreaming this past October or did the Phillies not win the World Series with a lineup that included Carlos Ruiz and Pedro Feliz?
Everyone got so sucked into this 1,000 run offense mythology a year or so ago that we forget that normal teams like the 2008 Phillies did pretty damn well to score 800 runs.
Giambi isn’t considered a low average, high strik out hitter? He hit .247 with 111 strike outs last season.
Nady as the Yankee #3 hitter is a joke. He just barley has shed the platton player label. The Yankee lineup is old and creaky right now and needs a shot in the arm. Getting Manny will help next year but adding another 37yr old player in this post-steroid era is not smart.
It would nice to see Cashman finally get creative and land a bat that nobody is talking about.
Cashman is a very average GM and some might say below avg considering his resources.
Nady as the Yankee #3 hitter is a joke. He just barley has shed the platoon player label. The Yankee lineup is old and creaky right now and needs a shot in the arm. Getting Manny will help next year but adding another 37yr old player in this post-steroid era is not smart.
It would nice to see Cashman finally get creative and land a bat that nobody is talking about.
Cashman is a very average GM and some might say below avg considering his resources.
The Yankees wouldn’t need to go after Holliday if they sign Teixeira this year. Swisher and Jackson would be in the outfield and Jeter would probably be close to moving to LF.
Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Tex, Swish, Posada, is as good as any 2-6 in baseball.
Aubrey Huff, Adrian Beltre, Hank Blalock, or Carlos Delgado are free agents next year and would cost much less than Holliday.
dave i keep pointing out that in the cameron trade at least half of igawa’s salary + melky’s salary leave with them, so the cost of cameron + pettitte is only $14M not $20M.
The Phillies score 10 more runs than the Yankees did last season.
no.27
December 16th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Aubrey Huff, Adrian Beltre, Hank Blalock, or Carlos Delgado are free agents next year and would cost much less than Holliday.
————————————————————
The thought of any of those guys playing the outfield is sickening.
Jerry Hairston Jr might be a good UT player to sign. He hits and he plays 6 positions.
I just don’t believe in rewarding unprofessionalism, and Manny is the heigth of that. No team should extend that dude a contract. I’m unhappy with my 15 dollar an hour job too, but i do it as best I can. He should not set a precedence and be rewarded for doing so, and I don’t give a rats rear how good the guy is. There are times he quit even while in the lineup. No go for manny.
Wigginton I think is a good answer, he is kind of a grinder and I like that in a player. Always pays dividends one way or another.
Matsui will be fine if he is painfree.
Posada, I worry about batspeed and throwing, hope he is fine too.
Damon, above average and will be so for 3-4 years pending injuries.
Derek played two months injured, hitting one handed basically. He will be fine.
Arod doesn’t need protection, but it would not hurt him either.
Swish, Nady, and whoever in cf. Ask me next year.
I’m ready for war with this offense,asuming the pitching in real life is what it is on paper.
Who said they’d play in the outfield? I think the outfield would be Jackson, Swisher, and maybe someone to hold left field down for a year before Jeter takes over. All those guys would be great DHs though.
If we want to increase offensive production next year the answer is simple BRING BACK BOBBY ABREU!
Let me get this straight. Some of the people on this board want to spend more money on players. Let’s see we are all going to have enough money to pay $50 to $100 at the ballpark. What world are you living in?
The Yankees are asking for more tax-free bonds and yet are spending like drunken sailors and some are in favor of spending more. Can we find the real world in here somewhere?
I’m gonna lose it if Tex signs w/the sux and we didn’t even make an offer. At the bare minimum we should drive up the price.
Pete,
Do us a favor. Never call CC by the name of ‘Carstens’ again. It makes me think of the other Karstens and that greatly upsets me.
“ARod has ZERO protection.”
As has been stated numerous times this week – ARod IS the protection. The lineup needs a guy who can benefit from hitting in front of Alex (which is why Alex should bat 4th next year).
Just look at what Manny did for Ortiz. For awhile, Francona hat Manny hitting 3rd, until one day he realized Ortiz was chasing balls because he felt as the #4 hitter he needed to drive in runs, instead of waiting for his pitch or taking the walk and passing the baton to the next guy.
I actually think the lineup, with the current roster, may be best suited to have Swisher hit 3rd – he should see a ton of fastballs with Alex, Matsui, and Posada looming behind him.
Fran,
Thanks for that info.
It’s nice that they’re going to do the PC together. It should be very interesting.
We should make a pool for who’s going to ask the most stupid question.
“I’m ready for war with this offense”
me too! i think our pitching if phenominal and the lineup is solid. i think we’re much improved already over last year and i expect cash to land a good bat or 2 for the bench.
i think we make the playoffs and we’re 100% better suited for PS baseball than we’ve been since 2001.
i like this team alot.
“It makes me think of the other Karstens and that greatly upsets me.”
Why? He’s my darkhorse pick for NL Cy Young.
” Forget about Mark Teixeira “…You’ll eat those words as you interview him often at the new Stadium, Pete.
Vin,
I think you I just popped a blood vessel in my eyeball.
That’s not the Cal Bears I know
Vin,
I think I just popped a blood vessel in my eyeball.
hey, dont be knocking on jeff karstens. the guy came up through our system, contributed at the major league level when we were desparate for help and then got moved as part of a deal that brought us 2 front line mlb guys.
nice contribution to the organization, i say thanks jeff and best of luck to you in pittsburgh!
Are Damon and Nady really not able to play cf, because if either of them could, Dunn is perfect. I love Nick Johnson he was my favorite player when he was with us but he’s never played the same since he’s been hurt, its a real shame too.
P.S. This whole “the Yankees bid against themselves” thing is a pernicious myth.
Bret,
I don’t like it when Pete calls him by his full name because it makes me think Cash accidentally signed the wrong guy. I want the big lefty who used to pitch for the Indians and Brewers, not some AA outfielder in the Giants organization.
Nick,
In honor of Jack Nicholson, who should be in the crowd with Steph, “You can’t handle the truth!”
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but… bring back Giambi. I was first in line all this season to say, “Goodbye after ‘08 Jason” every time he k’d with guys on base, but considering it’s like a 1 percent chance they sign Tex, they have to do something else to the lineup. I say no to Manny completely, even if he would sign a two year deal. He is a distraction and not the type of player the Yankees need. Manny’s a great hitter but in my opinion, a lazy and selfish person. Giambi was a pretty productive player last year, and it seems like he really wants to return to the Yankees. Sign him, play him at first some and Swisher can spell outfielders some games. Jason could also DH some when Matsui sits, or gets hurt. He already said he’d come back cheaper. Obviously he’s not looking for a long term deal so there’d be little risk. I don’t know though, maybe there are other 1B that will be free agents after ‘09 they’ll look into, or maybe they are confident in Swisher going forward. I think they need to add at least 1 more hitter though, for sure. Doesn’t always to need to be a big profile person though.
When I said Giambi would come back cheaper, I meant probably for even less than he could get with another team. He really wants to come back to New York. Obviously he would sign cheaper than his previous contract, no matter what team he signs with.
My previous comment was mainly directed towards objective Yankee fans.
Plus I’m right.
Nick in SF in Napa
December 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
“P.S. This whole “the Yankees bid against themselves” thing is a pernicious myth.”
Nick, I didn’t follow the CC contract negotiations as closely as some, but to an outsider it did appear that the Yankees bid against themselves.
I don’t think that there was another offer even close to the 140 million offer, but Cash had to offer another 20 million and another year because it certainly appeared that CC really didn’t want to come to New York but eventually could not decline that contract.
This opinion is not just a “sox” fan opinion but one that I have heard from most of the national sports commentators.
bring back giambi?
if they dont get cameron and could put swisher in of for 50 or so games it might make sense to bring back giambi. he could play 1B when swisher is in the OF and split time at DH with matsui. i could see it work, but i dont think they want to go back to stacking up the DH types. it also reverses some of the gains on defense and agewise. still on a 1 yr contract for (cameron’s) $10M, its not a crazy idea.
(Or at lease no one can prove me wrong using publically-available, factual information)
mel
Cal Bear loaded the gun and you didn’t fire it. Not continuing after the “Don’t get me started” showed great restraint.
Ah, Nick. I understand now. You’re holding onto the false premise that more than 2 teams bid on CC.
You are correct that we didn’t outbid ourselves. We just outbid the Brewers. Unfortunately for the Yankee checkbook, the Brewers weren’t even in the neighborhood. They were in east LA, while we were in Malibu.
“Yes, I have heard the Yankees bid against themselves. The only other known offer was Milwaukee’s five-year, $100 million offer. So when the Yanks’ proposal went from six years at $140 million (a drop over Santana’s guarantee) to the $161 million, the criticism was that the Yanks went from $40 million more than anyone else to $61 million more than anyone else.
Except that is nonsense. If the Yankees were not involved, many more teams would have been, and the final deal would have been well north of $100 million. I will not criticize the Yanks for using a strength (money) to make such a power first offer that they prevented a field from forming to negotiate incrementally toward $140 million or more.”
Mel,
Who asks the most stupid question and what it will be!
Hey…
I lost my electricity on Thursday at around 7:00 PM.
Just got it back today (12/16) at 4:00 PM.
What did I miss?
yes i think the teixeira sweepstakes illustrates how a prolonged bidding war can push the price way up. the yankee’s first-strike method eliminates most of the competition, so there is no bidding war. i dont think the yankees would have gotten him any cheaper had they gone up incrementally till everyone else dropped out, in fact he might have cost alot more that way.
Sherman (to Sabathia), “So, what is it exactly, that you don’t like about New York?”
King (to Burnett), “So, um…Did it hurt?”
oops. I thought everyone would get that. I meant nipple rings. But with Burnett it could’ve been his foot, elbow, tummy, anything.
John Heyman says that the Yanks are ready to ponch on Manny.
Ray, dear chap, CC was not up for auction; the highest bid plus $1 was not sufficient.
And read what you just wrote back to yourself; you aren’t describing the Yankees ‘bidding against themselves’, you’re describing a negotiation to sign a player.
Furthermore, once the Yankees’ initial offer was out there for so long, something in the internal CC-Yankees dynamic (in addition to the dynamic with other clubs)obviously had to change to make the deal.
Propoents of the myth are stubborn, so it likely will never die.
Mel,
Glad you clarified that!
My pick – King (to Sabathia) – Will you opt out after Year 3?
Mel, your theory about the ‘false premise’ is also incorrect; phantom bids have nothing to do with my thinking.
Nick in SF currently in Napa….Say hi to my ex-wife who lives in Napa, beingthat she hardly speaks to me anymore…..Wench
I somehow stumpled upon this (crazy internets)
“To learn what Pavano’s about, read John Feinstein’s interesting book Living on the Black, about Mike Mussina and Tom Glavine. In one story, when Mussina was offered slightly less than $10 million a year in a new contract by the Yankees, he told Cashman, “I can’t be paid less than Pavano,” or words to that effect, and Cashman understood completely. Mussina was then paid $11.5 million a year, or slightly more than the sedentary Pavano.”
LOL
-http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/08/11/heyman.lucchino/1.html
“This opinion is not just a “sox” fan opinion but one that I have heard from most of the national sports commentators.”
ray,
This is a very commonly repeated criticism. The yankees bid against themselves.
It’s particularly been a common refrain after the ARod situation last year and CC this year.
In general I think it’s very over blown. The yankees know what the going market rates are. They also know what the player is worth to them based on their business model (which is entirely different than it is for other teams…) In turn they are simply willing to pay a premium player what they think he’s worth rather than haggle it out them.
CC was always going to get more than Santana after the year he had. He’s a better pitcher now than Santana had and was coming off an amazing year.
It was make believe to think he was going to sign for less than Santana unless he took a huge pay cut to play on the west coast.
The yankees never had that advantage so it would have been ridiculous for them to not bid at what the market rate was going to be.
That market rate was set when Santana inked his deal last winter and the Yankees knew that.
The yankees value getting deals done and over with. They offered $140 as their opening offer. I’m sure they didn’t expect CC to take that.
From the beginning I think they’d valued CC at 7yrs/$150-160M and were willing to pay that. They may have paid an extra $10M as the opportunity cost to get the deal done before the Tex negotiations were through so the Angels couldn’t get back in.
If the Angels had gotten in on CC after losing Tex, CC could have wound up costing them $175M easy.
The most reasonable thing I’ve read on this was the following article. It’s very short take a look as its something of an economic analysis rather than people spouting off opinions:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....h-yankees/
PAT M: I’m hoping to leave Napa asap, so maybe next time. Brrrr, maybe she’s the one making it so cold here.
Manny…Manny…Manny
Bat Manny behind Arod and you will have the best back to back tandem in the league. That was the formula that won two championships for Boston. Manny would take some pressure off Arod and allow him to finally lead the Yanks to the title and shake that monkey off his back.
Plus you know Manny would get up for the Red Sox games.
ray (sox fan)
December 16th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Nick in SF in Napa
December 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
“P.S. This whole “the Yankees bid against themselves” thing is a pernicious myth.”
Nick, I didn’t follow the CC contract negotiations as closely as some, but to an outsider it did appear that the Yankees bid against themselves.
I don’t think that there was another offer even close to the 140 million offer, but Cash had to offer another 20 million and another year because it certainly appeared that CC really didn’t want to come to New York but eventually could not decline that contract.
This opinion is not just a “sox” fan opinion but one that I have heard from most of the national sports commentators.
————————————————————
I’d assume that the next highest bid was probably around 120 mil. NYY also had to outbid them but, had to deal against #1: He wanted the West Coast; #2: He wanted to play in the NL, and #3: He wanted to hit. That’s a lot of extra things to buy that most of the other teams didn’t have to pay for.
CB understands!
Thank you CB!
Pete is such a slacker. One update today!!
Good piece CB….Numbers guru…
“I compare Tex to Tino. Great bat not elite, great defense but……”
—————————-
At age 28, Tino had a carrer OPS+ of 112, which coincidentially was his final OPS+. Tex has an OPS+ of 134. Not a very good comparison.
Let’s be honest: the no-facial-hair/no-long-hair rule is way outdated. This team needs to lighten up and win baseball games. If the Yanks sign Manny, let him have his dreds. Let CC where his hat cocked to the side. I’m disappointed the rule wasn’t abolished the minute George stepped down as principal executive. The Yankees need to wake up and realize the year is 2008, not 1926.
I think if the redsox get tex the yankees wit counter wit manny trade nady …for some pitching ???
2 for 45 offer to manny
Damon RF
Jeter SS
manny LF
arod 3rd
matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2nd
Swisher 1st
melk man,gardner or Cameron
manny and arod.. can flip floped who ever is hitting better bat clean upp {manny}
Great point about the Farnsworth signing in KC.
“But I will also pass along what one longtime observer of Farnsworth said: “The good news is it’ll reduce wear and tear on Joakim Soria’s arm. Because now, he will never, ever be given a lead.”"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
I believe Manny would play very hard for the Yankees even if the contract was not what he wanted. He would believe the cause of that was bad mouthing from the Red Sox, and he would want to make them pay by helping the Yanks win. Where to play him is the issue, but play him I would if I were the team
Nick and CB,
Thank you both for your responses. In thinking about how the Yankees signed CC, I can appreciate that the initial 140 bid probably effectively discouraged a number of teams from getting into the bidding war for CC. That was a good strategy by Cashman and the NY front office in my opinion.
What would concern me if I was a Yankee fan is that it almost seemed like the Yankees had to beg CC to come to New York and if there was a west coast bid even in the same ballpark I’m not sure CC would be a Yankee right now.
If the Yanks do get Manny why would they then trade Nady? That would leave them without a RF.
NADY IS NOT GETTIN TRADED!!!!
We need to find cheaper ways to help the offense. Trading Nady will not clear away enough to afford Manny or Texiera. Manny and Texiera want over 20 million. Nady will only make about 6 million next year. It just doesn’t make sense.
I like the idea of Nick Johnson if the Nats acquire Texiera.
umm…. KJ i just said u move damon to right let manny play left and then in center field cameron,melk man or garner…sorry if i wasn’t clear
“What would concern me if I was a Yankee fan is that it almost seemed like the Yankees had to beg CC to come to New York and if there was a west coast bid even in the same ballpark I’m not sure CC would be a Yankee right now.”
Schilling originally said he wanted to play for the Yankees or Phillies before Boston got him. Did that concern you?
Adam Dunn is NOT the type of player the Yankees need. However, that alone should not be a reason to ignor him. A few things I’ve clipped from various blogs:
“In addition, Dunn’s price might be dropping in a down market. Two NL officials wondered whether Dunn would command even a Jose Guillen-caliber, three-year, $36 million deal from a team other than Washington.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=Neyer_Rob
He’s got 278 home runs and 672 RBIs in eight Major League seasons. (35 HRs/yr). His career on-base percentage is .381 (higher than Ichiro, Chase Utley and fellow free agent Teixeira), and his career slugging is .518 (better than Gary Sheffield, Carlos Lee and Aramis Ramirez). And he’s durable, playing in no fewer than 152 games in each of the last five seasons.
http://harkins.newsvine.com/_n.....Id=4299522
Yeah, he strikes out a lot, so he won’t get as many RBI on sac flies and weak grounders, but…..
35 HRs a year on average, and consider him in Yankee Stadium???
A total investment of $36m or less, an AAV of $12m???
Folks… in today’s market, that’s a steal. A STEAL!!!!
An OBP of .381 makes him a good #3 hitter, in front of ARod.
Again, he’s not my favorite type, but considering our need for pop, being limited on dollars and wanting to avoid long contracts…. you really have to consider him. Plus, after next year with Matsui gone, he (mostly) becomes the DH.
Damon in right is a recipe for disaster
Nick Johnson how is that an upgrade over what we already have? The Yanks already got the most they could out of Nick.
Texeria is better than Tino….I feel as though I’m back in NYC…..There’s a chill in the air ( 55 Degrees ) & I have the choice of going to the Rangers or going to Staples and watching the run & gun Knickerbockers
Mike NYY just thought about it ur right with his arm that is a disaster ..lol
well then idk ..pete not posting i figured i had to say something stupid lol.
manny is a pain in the you know what…
but the idea of manny batting behind a-rod (especially during an odd year ;]) is too tempting that the yanks have to at least look into it, even if it never really gets serious
“John Heyman says that the Yanks are ready to ponch on Manny.”
Where did he say this?
Ray, that very fear was voiced by many on this board, some sincerely and some with ulterior motives.
To me it’s a non-issue. I think CC will throw his whole heart into pitching for the New York Yankees and a little part of his brain will remember that he can opt out in three years
If the Yanks are going to deal with Milwaukee, make it a blockbuster. Cameron, Hall, Bush & Fielder for Cabrera, Igawa, Hughes & Kennedy.
i would figure john heyman would say that on his blog at si.com
If they got Nick Johnson they could put Damon at center with Nady and Swisher in the corners. Cashman said that he saw Damon as an option for center when the season ended. It’s not the best situation because he has a weak arm, but he still has decent range. Unless Melky or Gardner are much better at the plate than last year, what the Yankees lose in CF defense, they make for in offense with Johnson’s bat.
CC should look at it this way, if he pitches like a beast in the AL east for 3 years and doesnt want to stay in NY then he can become a FA again in which he will be worth EVEN MORE
CC are using the yanks just as much as the yanks are using CC
I love the Idea of Manny. But the one that would be traded is Matsui. Oh and you would have to pay most of his remaining 13 mill and get nothing back in return.
“What would concern me if I was a Yankee fan is that it almost seemed like the Yankees had to beg CC to come to New York and if there was a west coast bid even in the same ballpark I’m not sure CC would be a Yankee right now.”
Are you worried that it will take at least $200M to bribe Tex to sign with your club? His family is from Maryland and all we’ve heard is how much Tex loves soft shell crabs.
How much does it seem like Tex really wants to play in Boston if all he’s really interested in doing is signing with the team that will pay him the asking price that Boras threw out there a few months ago? An asking price people said sounded absurd.
Did you worry about Jacoby Ellsbury’s allegiances when he switched agents like two days after the world series and went with Boras and then immediately started talking about how he wasn’t interested in signing an extension with the sox?
I’m not worried about CC one bit. What he did in 2008 was one of the most selfless team first performances I’ve ever seen any modern athlete put up in any sport.
The brewers treated CC like a rental player the year after the indians did the same with him.
What the brewers asked him to do was almost criminal and I still can’t believe CC agreed to it.
He threw 6 games on 3 days rest for a team that was using him as a rental in order to get them into the playoffs.
CC as much as develops elbow soreness and he might have cost himself $50M. He blows out his elbow or shoulder and he’s lost $150M easy.
Yet he still went out there and took the ball. That was astonishing given the amount of money that was on the line and the way the brewers were just milking him for innings.
If he did that for the brewers in half a season I think he’ll be more than committed to the yankees.
It seems like it’s always the yankees who have to be concerned about whether players really want to play for them but every other team has gritty gamers who simply play for the love of competition and not because their teams are paying them top dollar or buying them out of risk by signing them to early, long term deals.
please dont say nick johnson again ..just what we need another guy who is fat and cant stay healthy …
The Yankees dont need Nick Johnson I understand he is a good player but he is never ever healthy. Plus how are we better no.27 if we put Damon in CF & Swisher in the OF?
thank u KJ no more nick johnson talk or damon talk in center its making me sickkk …
CB,
You make some very good points.
I absolutely had concerns when Jacoby Ellsbury switched agents to Boras.
And yes if the Sox spend 200 million on Tex I will have concerns about that too.
It is not my intent to just raise questions about the Yankees. I have plenty of concerns about the Sox. As you have ably articulated before I think the Sox bullpen still needs some improving, and there are some other concerns I have about the team too.
“they make for in offense with Johnson’s bat.”
…and Johnson being our #3 hitter.
CB is laying down the HAMMER tonight. I’m happy I get to witness it
Nick Johnson? Did that wrist finally heal? He’s still playing isn’t he?
“I understand he is a good player but he is never ever healthy.”
blame the Mets for putting him on the DL, and miss all of 2007. even though he’s injuried, his OBP is still in the 400s.
Ha if Nick Johnson is the Yankees 3 hitter then Im the ace of the staff.
Hey Cash, Go get Nick Johnson! Along with Ben Sheets, Rocco Baldelli, and trade for Bobby Crosby. Is Mark Prior available? Our minor leaguers would get a ton of major league experience.
i love how you guys are bashing our offense and saying abrue is such a good hitter.
ok i admit abreu can hit the ball, but he looks at strike 3 too much, and is a pansy while near the fences.
if you look at the stats of our 1998 team our team was not that good at hitting i mean we had be hitting .248, .270, etc. but our team was good because of dominant starting pitching and relief pitching.
and mike cameron and swisher were in the top 5 for most pitches seen per at bat, and what do ya know, we never wore out starters last year, so adding them would be an advantage.
Thus spoke CB-rathustra
“Nick Johnson? Did that wrist finally heal? He’s still playing isn’t he?”
wrist is TBD, and yes Johnson is still in the game. he only played 35 games this past season because of the wrist, i think?
At the risk of getting flamed, Johnson does make some sense if they can sign Juan Rivera as well.
Damon in center is a liability. However, Johnson is a very good defensive first baseman and Swisher is great in left-field. The hit on the defense wouldn’t be as bad as you think it might be.
Swisher is a great hitter, when healthy he can hit in the middle of the lineup. He`d be the perfect #3 hitter for them.
Hopefully they can sign Juan Rivera to be a 4th outfielder. When Johnson/Matsui/Damon inevitably get hurt then Rivera can step in without killing the team. Maybe then they can trade for another outfielder at the deadline.
Brett Gardner is also a solid backup. As long as they make the bench strong Johnson would be worth the risk.
Ok new game the next person that writes Nick Johnson has to punch themselves in the face.
“The Yankees dont need Nick Johnson I understand he is a good player but he is never ever healthy. Plus how are we better no.27 if we put Damon in CF & Swisher in the OF?”
The Yankees offense would be much better. You’d basically be replacing Melky or Gardner’s bat with Nick Johnson’s. On defense, Nick Johnson is a good fielding first baseman and Swisher is a good fielding outfielder. Damon is obviously not as good in centerfield as Gardner or Melky, but I think he’s an underrated fielder.
It wasn’t my idea to go after Johnson, but if the Yankees were to get him, that’s probably what they would do. If Johnson gets hurt, Swisher goes back to first base, Damon goes back to left, and Melky or Gardner is back at center. Damon would make himself a lot of money if he proved he could play decent centerfield next year.
yeah, Johnson has season ending wrist surgery early in the year. He has had wrist issues going all the back to his days in the minors…
wow CB i never usually read long posts (espcially dave, no offense) lol
but that was really good, and i agree, well spoken.
i just added the HR’s of the 1996 starting 9 for the yankees. (tino/fielder/jeter/bernie/paulie/boggs/joeg/duncan and combined raines/straw) they hit 155 HR.
if posada and matsui hit only 15 each and everybody else hits the same # they hit last year, then (damon/jeter/arod/godzilla/nady/swisher/cano/posada/gardner) would hit 156 HR’s.
“Ha if Nick Johnson is the Yankees 3 hitter then Im the ace of the staff.”
.396 career OBP, over 400 in the last 3 seasons
over 4.15 p/pa in the last 6 seasons
Next!
The offense needs help and it beyond their budget to get Ramirez or Texiera. A tandem of Johnson/Rivera would be cheaper and better than Cameron.
Nick Johnson (punches self in face), is not a player to be relied upon. Sure, he gets on base and has good power, but he’s always hurt.
the yankees front office
It has been widely reported that the Yankees would have to pay a substantial portion of Igawa’s contract in order for Milwaukee to take him. So I doubt that the savings would be very significant.
Cameron can’t hit RH pitching, so he’s not worth having on the team.
“At the risk of getting flamed, Johnson does make some sense if they can sign Juan Rivera as well.”
johnson who’s missed almost 40% of his teams games over the past 5 years plus rivera who missed half of last year are going to cover us if matsui cant go?
somehow that doesnt sound like a good plan…
Juan Rivera just seems like a walking PED case to me. Did he ever get busted? He was a monster for the Angels a couple years ago.
In the latest chapter of how will the economy affect teams, GM decided not to renew some of their sponsorship deals with MLB teams including the NY Yankees. Lonn Trost reports that the Yankees have already replaced the GM sponsorship with Toyota and Audi.
If he can deliver 130-140 games (which he did in 2006 and 2007) then he could help the team a ton and would be well worth the cost. Its a gamble easily worth taking.
ray,
I enjoy your posts and you add a lot to the board. I’d actually like to see you post more often but I get the sense at times that you don’t think it’s appropriate given your allegiance. I think the opposite. You add a lot.
So I don’t mean to give you a hard time in any way.
I do find it curious however regarding people’s views of the yankees.
Modern sports and its economics are very skewed and its hard for any of us to relate to them.
As amazing as these deal sound – pro baseball players are probably under paid compared to league revenues. Boras is right on this point.
The yankees really are at the extreme of this and I think they make the economic issue more visible.
But in turn people in the media and other fans tend to obsess about the yankees while not really looking in their own back yards.
Last year a 10 year deal for ARod was just stupid. This year a 10 year deal for Tex will somehow just be dandy as the yanks aren’t in the middle of it.
And please compare the media reaction to the yankees signing CC to the reaction to the Sox signing tex if that happens.
CC will sign for MUCH less money.
But somehow in acquiring CC’s services the yankees will have bid against themselves, been profligate with money during the worse recession since the great depression, bought out the fealty of a player who didn’t want to play for them, etc, etc.
When Tex signs for $200 big the it will be because of the ruthless efficiency of Theo’s genius as he carefully, yet aggressively identified and pursued his player for years, biding his tim, waiting and then pouncing – but rationally so – to yet expand the brilliance that glows around Fenway park and John Henry’s hair.
Only the red sox could bid $200M on a 1b who they have no place to play, a first baseman who will make a world series MVP not only redundant – but man an additional economic burden to the original $200M as they’ll need to eat $15M or so of his contract to trade and come off as efficient, rational geniuses.
If the yankees did what the sox are for Tex they would be laughed at.
“please dont say nick johnson again ..just what we need another guy who is fat and cant stay healthy …”
Exactly. Nick Johnson is the Carl Pavano of position players and not someone to be relied on he could be a good bench guy but not worthy of getting significant playing time. We need one of Manny, Tex, or Dunn.
Tom,
sure Nick is always hurt, 2006 could had been his injury free season if it wasn’t for the Mets causing a collision during the last week of the season. Shea Stadium is bad news for Nick. (/joke)
I would love Manny on a 2 or 3 year deal. Anything beyond that is too much of a risk. I’d give him 3/63 max. Then get Cameron, try to trade Matsui for nearly anything, and sign Pettitte and you’ve got a heck of a club:
Damon lf
Jeter ss
Ramirez dh
Rodriguez 3b
Cano 2b
Nady rf
Posada c
Swisher 1b
Cameron cf
Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Molina
Gardner
Ransom
(utl if)
Rivera
Marte
Bruney
Veras
Ramirez
Coke
Aceves/Hughes (long relief/spot starter)
Extremely balanced lineup. Improved defense. Deep, solid bullpen with abundant minor league arms waiting in the wings. Best rotation in baseball.
i think that who ever give tex 200 mill is in for a rude awakening when they find out he isn’t worth it but hey good luck to ya redsox lol
Johnson is not someone to be relied on but he`s a low risk, high reward player. Worst case scenario, we give up a mediocore prospect and get nothing. Best case, we get a great fielding, great hitting first baseman.
you really have to ask yourself first if cash/hal would allow manny’s cirus into new yankee stadium. it wont happen.
so all you ppl pushing for a manny contract are fooling yourselves. but nothing else is happening, so dream on…
“Worst case scenario, we give up a mediocore prospect and get nothing.”
mike, u think the nats would give you nick johnson for a mediocre prospect?
wake up and smell the coffee.
Mike NYY,
if the Nats did landed Tex, look for Bowden to dump Johnson asap. most likely it will be really cheap. probably Igawa for him, since the Nats needs pitching.
nick johnson for kei igawa? plus what, $20 M?
mike, u think the nats would give you nick johnson for a mediocre prospect?
wake up and smell the coffee.
Their’s not going to be a huge demand for a player who missed almost all of last year. If they have then they have no reason to keep Johnson at 6 million dollars for 2008. I`ll be more than Igawa but Chase Wright and Phil Coke might be enough.
Yeah, I have to say Igawa would make no sense for the Nationals. The Nats would be putting on payroll.
“if the Nats did landed Tex, look for Bowden to dump Johnson asap. most likely it will be really cheap. probably Igawa for him, since the Nats needs pitching.”
Yeah because thats how it should work the richest team in pro sports should let the nats out-bid them for Tex and then take their scraps?
Yeah because thats how it should work the richest team in pro sports should let the nats out-bid them for Tex and then take their scraps?
Let the Nats give him 200 mil. They can take the stupid contract,
yes, i know Igawa for Johnson wouldn’t work but I was just saying.
CB
December 16th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
ray,
“I enjoy your posts and you add a lot to the board. I’d actually like to see you post more often but I get the sense at times that you don’t think it’s appropriate given your allegiance. I think the opposite. You add a lot.
So I don’t mean to give you a hard time in any way.
I do find it curious however regarding people’s views of the yankees.”
CB, thank you for the kind words. You may recall that almost two years ago when I started posting here you gave me some good advice.
I was doing some posting that was more typical of red sox troll posting and you recommended that write about more substantive baseball things rather than the troll material. That was good advice.
I am sometimes reluctant to post because I see myself as a guest in someone else’s home, and so I may have a different allegiance or take on something but I do want to be respectful that it is a Yankee post.
There are many regular posters that I dialogue with at times but there are some who still feel that a sox fan has no business here.
It will hurt to say this
but I think I understand a little bit about the apparent different standards people have for the Yankees and the rest of the baseball world. You guys have had the most successful sports team in not just baseball but all of sports. There is a tendency by some to take pot shots at the top dog. It certainly doesn’t make it right but I think that is why the Arod contract gets ridiculed by some but a similar Tex contract by perhaps the Sox is lauded as a good investment.
“John Heyman says that the Yanks are ready to ponch on Manny.”
Does this refer to their plan to pull him over on a California freeway or to sell him some cheap Arkansas real estate?
Speaking of ponch, doesn’t Baker reming you of Derek Lowe?
http://tinyurl.com/6hxehd
I know one guy who can give us some pop at the 3 or 5 in the lineup.
Juan Gonzalez. Whats he doing these days.
Pudge in 08
Juan Gone in 09
Fitting.
“According to reports, Cabrera is drawing interest 11 teams in all, including the Yankees”
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....osts/32807
speaking of Juan Gone, I guess his comeback with the Cardinals failed miserably during spring training.
The more I think about it the more I like Dunn. He would come very cheap likely around 10-12 million. Also he is 28 and would NOT require a deal longer than 3-4 years. He has the perfect YS HR stroke and would hit 50 HR’s in YS with well over 100 RBI and 100 walks I like this move.
Ed – CC and Wang, the Dynamite Duo!
December 16th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Mike NYY,
if the Nats did landed Tex, look for Bowden to dump Johnson asap. most likely it will be really cheap. probably Igawa for him, since the Nats needs pitching.
——-
Funny that 2 of the 4 teams and maybe even 3 of the 4 that are bidding on Tex have to make room for him if they sign him. Thats the Nats, Sox and possibly the O’s. And the 5th one would also have to make room for him if we sign him. Like CB said, that will actually up the cost for some of those teams if they have to eat any of the contract that they need to move , this is especially true with Boston.
The only team that truly has a place for him is the team that he just played for and that is where I truly believe where he should be going but I don’t think he wants to live on the west coast for the next 7-10 years.
Funny how things play out.
Tom
December 16th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
“According to reports, Cabrera is drawing interest 11 teams in all, including the Yankees”
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....osts/32807
—-
This makes sense if no Andy
YankeeRay,
Agreed. Boston is planning to move either Lowell or Ortiz. Good luck with that, both are coming back from surgeries especially Lowell being a major injury.
Ray, all kidding aside, you have just as much right to be here as anyone else. Nowhere on this blog does it says that it’s for Yankee fans; what it says is “Thoughts and discussions on the 26-time World Champion Yankees.” You’re a thoughtful contributor, Ray, and I want you to stick around to see that number updated to 27.
Boston will NOT go 10/200 for Tex it just wont happen. It will be more like 7/140 or 8/160 I think the Yanks would be stupid to not get involved.
No more Nick- broke his femur and will not be the same!
Let me threow out some cheaper, younger options for CF, either fulltime or platoon, and get your thoughts if interested and what it would take to sign or trade for them:
Rocco Baldelli
Skip Schumaker
Jerry Hairston Jr.-all-around utility with CF experience
Ryan Spillborghs
Carlos Gonzalez
Now for a salary dump within or division:
Vernon Wells
I don’t see the Sox trading Ortiz. That would essentially be a Teixeira for Ortiz trade, where’s the upside?
ray,
I can only speak for myself but I would welcome you posting more often as your posts are uniformly substantive. I do recall that exchange we had quite some time ago. But you’ve only been a plus here in my book and I’d venture to guess many if not most of the regulars here agree.
Even tonight, while I took exception to what you were saying I never for a moment thought it wasn’t an authentic concern on your part.
In addition to the particular teams we root for we’re also baseball fans so getting different opinions is welcome.
I haven’t seen Dennis post here in quite some time – but he was also a sox fan and his posts were terrific.
Keep posting the way you are and I don’t think too many people will mind. Just my opinion, but it is what it is.
CB
December 16th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
ray,
I enjoy your posts and you add a lot to the board. I’d actually like to see you post more often but I get the sense at times that you don’t think it’s appropriate given your allegiance. I think the opposite. You add a lot.
————————————————————
Wit a minute!! You mean that Ray (sox fan) really is a Sox fan? I thought he was just kidding.
Hey!! Ray!! Stay off this board. Go back where you belong and cheer for those scum bag Sox.
Al-
When all is said and done Tex might get less than 10 years but the yearly salary will be 22-25M/year.
The only way the Yankees get seriously interested would be if Tex goes to Boras and tells him to get him to the Yankees even if it means less money, much like Boras telling Cash that Beltran would be willing to take 19M less to play for them instead of the Mets.
Correction: ***Wait*** a minute
speaking of Rocco Baldelli, I think the Yanks drop out of the race so maybe that’s why the Yanks are talking to the Brewers?
“Al-
When all is said and done Tex might get less than 10 years but the yearly salary will be 22-25M/year.
The only way the Yankees get seriously interested would be if Tex goes to Boras and tells him to get him to the Yankees even if it means less money, much like Boras telling Cash that Beltran would be willing to take 19M less to play for them instead of the Mets.”
That Beltran deal has haunted this team. I hope Tex would take less but after the CC deal I doubt it.
I wonder what Albert Belle is doing these days?
The only way Tex comes to the Yankees is if Hal decides to blow up that budget and tells Cash to go for it. But he has to blow the budget, and that’s a major decision, with many implications, going way beyond the 2009 season.
who knows, i say we spend the money now while we have the advantage.
“I wonder what Albert Belle is doing these days?”
He’s sitting around wishing he hadn’t been such an #*%@, so the HOF voters would show him some love.
“He’s sitting around wishing he hadn’t been such an #*%@, so the HOF voters would show him some love.”
You mean flexing his muscles in front of a camera wasnt good enough to make it?
O.k. how about Moe Vahgn for first base?
Ray– As I always say when people get uppity about your being around, you’re good people and despite what some may think being a Red Sox fan isn’t the same as having leprosy. My future wife is from MA (and while i’d never admit it to her) I don’t really hold that against her.
The game of baseball in some senses transcends the teams and it’s fun to get opinions from a fan of the other clothes. I think everybody knows there’s double standard between the Yankees spending money, and everybody else. I just think it’s one of the few double standards we, for whatever reason, don’t mind. Sort of like Ladies Night, women get in free before 11.
“Hey!! Ray!! Stay off this board. Go back where you belong and cheer for those scum bag Sox.”
Aw, GB7……I can feel the love!
ray (sox fan)
December 16th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
“Hey!! Ray!! Stay off this board. Go back where you belong and cheer for those scum bag Sox.”
Aw, GB7……I can feel the love!
————————————————————
Yeah…You bet, Ray. But, how much can a Red Sox fan be loved?
How are things with you and the (sox fan) family? Hope you guys get everything you want for Christmas except a new first baseman.
Ray, because of you I learned that being a Red Sox fan and a rational and intelligent person are not two mutually exclusive things. Who knew?
Two points. Don’t know if they’ve been brought up before. I haven’t seen them.
1– Another reason to keep Tex from Boston. It’s not just that he strengthens and lengthens their lineup. He would also open up many trade possibilities. One of BOston’s top prospects is Lars Anderson– a first baseman. This kid might have a fair amount of market appeal and allow the Sox to get another stud pittcher. Even Youk could be traded– though frankly I’m not sure I see exactly how Tex is much superior to Youk anyway — certainly not if you judge by last year’s numbers.
2– As far as I’m aware the only team that Tex has met with personally is New York. Perhaps I missed something. But that, plus other little things, really leads me to believe this guy wants to wear pinstripes.
It’s a lot of money and it will limit flexibility in the future, but he sure would fit right into that lineup. It’s a tough call.
All monetary issues aside, I would LOVE Teixeira in pinstripes.
I hear crickets again with the free agent market. It seems like the only team willing to spend money are the Yankees.
I added one to each argument, and will probably add more. Feel free to add more to either argument.
Sign Tex reasons:
1- Defense at first
2- High character guy keeping us from going Manny
3- Great patient 3 hole hitter
4- Long term dependable guy at key Yankee position
5- Power and average
6- Helps win now philosophy going into new stadium
7- Gives George a better shot at another ring before he checks out
8- Another switch hitter (3) in line up and 4 if we keep Melky
9- Big bat to assist in 3 yr win window
10-Keep Boras from controlling market
11-Stick in Gammons face
13-Stick it in all anti Yankees fans faces
14-Keep from Red Sox for obvious reasons
15-Losing him to sox would raise price on Manny which we will end up paying
16-Signing him now would eliminate false hope of landing Holiday next year when we realize we need more offense and we are 1 of many teams after him. We are 1 of 5 after Tex.
Don’t sign Tex reasons:
1- Too long of a commitment
2- Too much payroll in 2009
3- Because thats what we got Swisher for
4- Keep first base open for Posada,Jeter and anyone else who can’t play another position
5- Don’t want to make the rest of the league and fans mad at us for being bullies
“Two roads diverge in a yellow wood and I–I took the one less travelled by, and that has made all the difference.”
Just trying to get poetic about the thread.
Knicks-Lakers tonight
Hopefully the Knicks can atleast keep it competitive.
If Petttitte doesn’t sign and Tiexiera’s out of the question, then I could deal with just signing Abreu for a couple years max. He is a good bat, and he’s not Manny.
In ‘09 it could be him, Nady & Damon with Gardner as the 4th OF. In ‘10 it could be him, A-Jax, and Nady or someone else. Gardner? Perhaps if he keeps developing. In ‘11 Abreu could be replaced, and we got three good players in the OF.
Hey, Ray … how soon until Ellsbury is a free agent?
Again, Cameron for a year then maybe dealing him at the trade deadline could work … kind of like a warm, flat Piels Light quenches your thirst until you can get your hands on a nice cold Heineken. It works for the short term, but …. blaaahhhh.
Nice to see Pete finally admitting the Sox might actually be interested in him. I bet you kind of wish you weren’t so smug and dismissive now huh?
“According to a source familiar with the Yankees’ thinking, Brian Cashman has been lukewarm to the idea of signing Ramirez, but the rest of the front office – most notably Hal and Hank Steinbrenner – believes he is precisely what the Yankees need to bolster a lineup that underachieved in 2008.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ram-1.html
AC
December 16th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I would love Manny on a 2 or 3 year deal. Anything beyond that is too much of a risk. I’d give him 3/63 max. Then get Cameron, try to trade Matsui for nearly anything, and sign Pettitte and you’ve got a heck of a club:
Damon lf
Jeter ss
Ramirez dh
Rodriguez 3b
Cano 2b
Nady rf
Posada c
Swisher 1b
Cameron cf
Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Chamberlain
Pettitte
Molina
Gardner
Ransom
(utl if)
Rivera
Marte
Bruney
Veras
Ramirez
Coke
Aceves/Hughes (long relief/spot starter)
Extremely balanced lineup. Improved defense. Deep, solid bullpen with abundant minor league arms waiting in the wings. Best rotation in baseball.
_________________________________________
AC,
I agree; that’s a good team, but you have to consider the payroll. With Manny(at least 20 mil), Cameron (10 mil), and Pettite (at least 10 mil), you’re adding a huge chunk of change to the payroll. Plus, the Yankees are going to have to pay part of Matsui’s salary if they are able to trade him (which won’t be until spring training, if and when he proves he’s healthy). This could be your hypothetical team’s payroll in 2009:
23 sabathia
6 wang
16.5 burnett
10 pettitte
0.4 chamberlain
15 rivera
3.75 marte
2 bruney
0.4 coke
0.4 veras
0.4 ramirez
0.4 aveces
13.1 posada
5.3 swisher
6 cano
20 jeter
32 rodriguez
8 nady
10 cameron
13 damon
21 ramirez
0.4 gardner
1 molina
0.4 ransom
0.4 utility
7 matsui
Total: $215.85 million
If Cash wants to cut payroll, this is not the way to go.
You know, if almost anyone other than Mark Feinsand was reporting this, I would probably just ignore it.
Again, I remember Joe Torre wanted Albert Belle in the late 90s, so Joe G. might sign onto Manny being Manny, but you have to take a deep breath. While Manny punishing the Red Sox would be a sight to behold, Manny being Manny would bring back the Bronx Zoo. I really think that befor going down this path, Cash and the front office need to survey the team leaders – Joe G., Jeter, Posada, Mariano – to gauge the response to Manny. I would talk to Johnny Damon as well. He knows about Manny in the clubhouse, firsthand.
If Tex signs with anyone other than the Red Sox, I think Manny in pinstripes doesn’t happen. If Tex does sign with Boston….
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
I think the Yankees are waiting on Pettite before making the Cameron/Melky deal and here’s why: If they trade for Cameron and Pettite doesn’t sign with the Yankees then would go after Sheets. But the Brewers are looking to dump payroll so they can make Sheets a competitive offer, so this is not in the Yankees best interests. If Pettite signs with the Yanks then they no longer have interest in Sheets and will take Cameron’s contract off the Brewers hands.
NB – I give credence to what Feinsand writes, as well as Pete (of course), Tyler Kepner, Dan Graziano…
I really don’t want to slight anybody.
The arguements against Adam Dunn are weakening not much wrong you can say about that bat.
Nick looks like Babe Ruth, and obviously is him, reincarnated. Remember, we had him in ‘03,traded him for Javy Vomit Vazquez at season’s end and then the Sox won it all. Get him back and correct the karma.
Any “Starbury” sightings yet at the Knicks/Lakers game?
Ok, my 2 year plan:
2009:
Johnny Damon-lf
Derek Jeter-ss
Hideki Matsui-dh
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Jorge Posada-c
Xavier Nady-rf
Nick Swisher-1b
Matt Kemp-cf
Orlando Hudson-2b
2010:
Derek Jeter-ss
Orlando Hudson-2b
Alex Rodriguez-3b
Prince Fielder-dh
Xavier Nady-rf
Jorge Posada-c
Nick Swisher-1b
Matt Kemp-lf
Austin Jackson-cf
Probably the only time I’ll be able to say this.
LAKERS SUCK !
LAKERS SUCK !
LAKERS SUCK !
“The arguements against Adam Dunn are weakening not much wrong you can say about that bat.”
Yep, why Cashman isn’t going for him is beyond me?
is Kobe ballhogging again?
oh, i hope cash surprises is and signs Tex!
The noteworthy thing about that Feinsand report of the yankee’s interest in Manny is the following -
I think that’s the first time we’ve heard anything about Hal being interested in Manny rather than Hank.
Hank can yap about Manny and it doesn’t mean all that much. But I don’t think there’s been any reports regarding Hal having an opinion on the offense or on Manny one way or the other.
If they are going to go over budget that’ll be Hal call.
I wonder if they are reevaluating the budget given the softness in the non-Tex free agent market.
I’m sure a couple of months ago they didn’t think Manny could be available on a 2 year deal. Now maybe and perhaps they’re thinking about that as it’s not a long term commitment.
Feinsand’s report also get some credibility based on their holding up the Cameron deal.
I’d guess they are at least reevaluating issues like the budget and talent acquisition – which is good. They should be going through all the options whether that’s Tex or Manny or even Dunn.
I find it difficult to believe that they’d play Damon in CF and Manny in LF as Feinsand said. That would be the worst defensive OF in baseball. They’d be worsening defense in 2 positions that way. And I can’t imagine Manny playing defense in the large LF at the stadium.
It’s hard to know how much of manny’s awful defense is simply indifference vs. declining skills. But his defense could eat away a big chunk of his offensive value.
Get Manny CashMoney!!!
Gotta say…win or lose, the Knicks are totally more fun to watch this year. The fact that I am actually watching a Knicks game is a step in the right direction.
“Yep, why Cashman isn’t going for him is beyond me?”
Dunn has no clear position to play on the yankees unless he can play an average to slightly below average 1b. That’s the big problem with him. And it’s not a small matter at all.
Dunn’s bat is not even close to Manny’s. So they aren’t going to make the allowances on defense they would make for Manny. And they aren’t going to eat Matsui’s contract just to obtain Dunn.
Dunn can’t play LF in yankee stadium or at least he would be horrible.
If he could be ok at 1b he’d be a good addition. But he’s hardly played there over his career and it’s difficult to know how bad he’d be there.
That’s not a small problem in any respect. Signing Dunn is not that clear a move to make.
Lakers aren’t winning a championship, their defense is simply not good enough. Boston or the cavs will win it. Lakers will probably win the west, but will not win it all. Unless their defense dramatically improves, I don’t think they can go all the way. No way would boston surrender 37 points to the knicks in a quarter, let alone at home.
Historically (if it happens) has there ever been a 3-4 combo in a lineup as good as Manny – Arod sound?
– Cameron does not represent a 10 million dollar upgrade over gardner and we could spend the money much more wisely.
CORRECT. Money is better spent elsewhere, and Gardner is probably better on defense.
– The Dunn/Swisher combo is more patient than the Giambi/Abreu combo in 2008. Cameron is more patient at plate than it would appear from obp
CORRECT. Dunn is one-dimensional and terrible on D, but a very good bat and underpriced for some reason.
– Swisher had a career low and still led baseball in plate patience = deal was a steal and swisher will be real good next season
CORRECT. Absolutely one of Cashman’s best! Quinticential buy low deal on a guy that could be a stud.
– Yankees thrive on patience at the plate and getting swisher and dunn to replace giambi and abreu would be good
CORRECT. And at a very reasonable price considering Bobby/Jason cost us $38m last year.
– Dunn, Tex and Manny all walk a lot – 1st, 8th and 17th
YUP… at $36m, $180m and $45m-$60m. I’ll take Dunn.
– Pujols is absolutely ridiculous in every category of hitting
CORRECT. The best player in MLB now, although he still may not finish with better numbers then ARod. Time will tell.
SA,
the Knicks still can’t play under pressure during the last 5 mins in the 4th.
the Knicks still can’t play under pressure during the last 5 mins in the 4th.
———————————————-
So true. They fall apart.
“Dunn has no clear position to play on the yankees unless he can play an average to slightly below average 1b. That’s the big problem with him. And it’s not a small matter at all.”
—————————————
This is true, but at least he is terrible on defense at more then 1 position. Hopefully next year he can be a DH. He is not a perfect fit by any means, but 3 years at $36m +/- is a great deal and he is a bat we need.
The Lakers are showing me they ain’t no championship team.
MATT KEMP WONT BE A YANKEE, ORLANDO HUDSON WONT BE A YANKEE, ROBINSON CANO WONT BE TRADED.. GET OVER IT
CB,
“Dunn can’t play LF in yankee stadium or at least he would be horrible.”
because of the short fence?
“If he could be ok at 1b he’d be a good addition. But he’s hardly played there over his career and it’s difficult to know how bad he’d be there.”
that’s what i was thinking. Dunn to 1st, Swisher to LF, and Damon CF while Matsui is the DH full time.
“Historically (if it happens) has there ever been a 3-4 combo in a lineup as good as Manny – Arod sound?”
Ruth – Gehrig was pretty good.
oyf cameron doesnt come unless igawa goes along with at least half of his salary.
so cameron doesnt cost $10M, he costs $4M at most.
Dunn is only of value in fantasy baseball. You’re talking paper power (looks good on paper) and a walking pylon (lotta walks and a pylon in the field) 235 avg 40 HRS, 200 SO and 120 walks. What you get is Giambi ll. For some reason nobody is fighting over Dunn, didn’t last year either. All the managers can’t be stupid so there must be a reason. And then imagine Dunn, Swisher, and Cameron in your batting order – that’s probably 550 SO right there. Black Hole anyone.?
” Dunn to 1st, Swisher to LF, and Damon CF ”
three guys playing out of position. thats a great way to maximize the dollars you spent on pitching…
Dodgers must sign Manny or they’re screwed. It’s inevitable. Manny/Pierre/Ethier. Then Kemp becomes available and we sign him because we don’t want to pay top dollar for Ankiel or Holliday when Damon leaves. Hudson is a better bargain as a replacement for Cano. He’ll get fewer years than Furcal and half the salary. Maybe he gets a 2 year deal and at the end of it, Jeter signs his final contract to play 2b. The Yankees need a shortstop on the 2 year track. Anybody like Alcides Escobar?
“Anybody like Alcides Escobar?”
the Brewers isn’t giving him up. He’s going to replace Hardy one way or another.
Ed,
Replace Hardy in 2 years I hope. That would make Hardy trade bait. Hardy would make a good successor to Jeter. Move Jeter to 2b. Hudson on a 2 year deal. I can’t think of a better position for Jeter than 2b given the way he hits and his defensive abilities. 2 more years at short for Jeter tops.
correction: Kemp becomes available and we trade for him.
Ed,
Is Alcides Escobar a free agent?
Ruth and Gehrig were pretty good.
Homer,
Alcides Escobar is 21.
Brett the hitman, theyre not going to trade Kemp.. Get out of your fantasy land.. please??
Why doesn’t anyone think out of the box like Kennedy and Coke plus a top reliever for someone like Rasmus – St Louis. Or check out Milledge at Wash, Ankiel anyone?
“Is Alcides Escobar a free agent?”
Yes. in 6 years.
“but 3 years at $36m +/- is a great deal and he is a bat we need.”
He’d be very compelling at that kind of price point. But at the same time if he has to play LF or 1b he will have his net value lessened significantly for next season. He’s just not going to win them as many games as his bat suggests it would.
“because of the short fence?”
The short porch is in RF. Left field is very deep so there is just a lot of area to cover. It helps a lot to have a LF with good range there like Damon. Dunn was ok in LF in cincy but that is such a small park there’s just not much room to cover in the OF. I can’t see him playing even half way decent defense in a larger park.
If Dunn could play even a league average 1b there would be an very persuasive argument to sign him.
But I’m not sure he can. The problem with playing him at 1b is that it involves him in many more plays than LF. Now on average each play is easier to make but still the number of times he’s have to handle the ball is an issue.
This is particularly true next year – their pitching staff is going to generate a tremendous number of ground balls and if you put Dunn there and he’s bad it’s a huge problem. It could eat away nearly all of the value of his bat.
LAKERS SUCK !
LAKERS SUCK !
LAKERS SUCK !
Aaron,
If the Dodgers sign Manny then their outfield is Manny/Pierre/Ethier/Kemp/Jones.
Market for Pierre or Jones? LOL.
# Bo knows December 16th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Why doesn’t anyone think out of the box like Kennedy and Coke plus a top reliever for someone like Rasmus – St Louis. Or check out Milledge at Wash, Ankiel anyone?
Because our opinion doesn’t matter.. Some people on here think it does, but it doesn’t.. haha
Pierre and Jones will be gone sooner or later, it makes no sense for them to trade Kemp.. and it makes no sense for us to trade Cano.. It’s not going to happen..
This has to make sense EVEN to Peter: Even if payroll is at $180MM, You can still sign Manny to 3 years at $75MM {10MM deferred to 2015} and keep payroll at $185MM or less {15% under 2008} by trading Damon for some prospects. Their would be at least 5 teams that would like Damon and take his full salary _to include the Braves}. Manny would take Damon’s spot in LF and afford the Yanks the ability to play Gardner in CF and let him hit .260 or sign Tavarez and pay him $900K to play CF until AJax is ready. Doesn’t that make the team better? Damon and Manny are the same age, so Pete’s thing about the Yanks can’t get Manny becuase he is older then player he will replace doesn’t hold water!
Nick,
But the real question is – could either of them be the 8th inning set up man for Mo?
That’s unclear. Yet all that matters.
CB,
thanks for the explain.
the yankees go spend a quarter of a billion dollars on pitching and ppl think they’re gonna run out damon in cf and dunn or manny in LF. that is laughable.
Aaron,
OK so, Manny/Kemp/Either and 25 million on the bench (Pierre + Jones)
LOL
This has to make sense EVEN to Peter: Even if payroll is at $180MM, You can still sign Manny to 3 years at $75MM {10MM deferred to 2015} and keep payroll at $185MM or less {15% under 2008} by trading Damon for some prospects. Their would be at least 5 teams that would like Damon and take his full salary _to include the Braves}. Manny would take Damon’s spot in LF and afford the Yanks the ability to play Gardner in CF and let him hit .260 or sign Tavarez and pay him $900K to play CF until AJax is ready. Doesn’t that make the team better? Damon and Manny are the same age, so Pete’s thing about the Yanks can’t get Manny becuase he is older then player he will replace doesn’t hold water!
ya bret where were you last year when they did that???
LOL, theyre going to go with their best 3.. and thats their best 3.. who knows if manny is even going to end up in LA, if they get Furcal he’s not going to..
Id say Manny ends up in the Angels or Yankees..
Knicks leading the Lakers by 15 in Staples on a 2nd night of a back to back?
Hal interested in Manny?
Did the world turn upside down after 11 PM?
CB: they never would have wasted Ruth’s talents if they had understood the importance of the setup man as we do today. We’d be stuck on 35 now, not 26!
Brandon – Don’ worry, Knicks will blow this game like they did the Dallas game
Lakers sleep walk through the first half but will come out guns ablazing in the 2nd half. Kobe will also take over for good in the 4th.
No way the Knicks go into Staples and win.. too good to be true.
at this point jones has no value whatsoever if they wanted to unload him, they’d have to cut him, nobody will go anywhere near his $18.1M contract. so you can put him on the list but he’s not even an option to start anymore.
pierre has been available since ST last year and no takers.
“sign Tavarez and pay him $900K to play CF until AJax is ready. Doesn’t that make the team better? ”
NO. we already have a Taveras, his name is Brett Gardner. Gardner is better than him offensively and defensively.
thats what im trying to tell the hitman, but he thinks that they’re andruw jones and juan pierre of old..
New line of thinking, I vote trade for Blalock. He wasn’t that far off Texiera not too long ago. Was injured but came back last year. Cost 1/4 of Texiera.
u are wrong yet again pete
the yankees NEED manny to hit behind arod
i know you do not want to cover him (more work for you)
this lineup is not of championship caliber without him
jep
The only thing the Yanks can’t afford is for the new stadium to flop. They will not be making a meaningful payroll cut this year.
Hal and Hank are pushing for Manny, Cash is lukewarm – per SI Com.
What the fascination with Dunn? Strikes out alot, hits for low average and plays horrible defense. Frankly, I’d rather have Giambi back for a 1 or 2 year deal until Jesus Montero is ready to play first base for the major league club.
Jeter’s problem at SS isn’t his arm, it’s his range. Putting him at 2nd base doesn’t help.
haha, Knicks 15 point lead cut to 6 in 2 minutes.
Phil knows his Yankees.
“New line of thinking, I vote trade for Blalock.”
welcome to the debate of 2 months ago.
“What the fascination with Dunn? Strikes out alot, hits for low average and plays horrible defense.”
you also forgot his consistent 40 home runs for the last 5 seasons. there’s **no market** for Dunn, which he would come **really cheap**. You are right, that isn’t fascinating. :shocked:
I said sign Tavarez IF Cashman doesn’t beleive Gardner can hit .270. If Gardner can hit .270, play D and steal 50 bases then their is NOTHING wrong with shedding Damon’s salary and adding Manny’s. I am reasonably sure that the $10MM differance a year can be paid 1/2 in differed payments costing the Yanks a extra $5MM in salary this year and bringing the payroll to 185MM or 15% less then last years. This makes sense and can be the last move needed. I have no problem letting Hughes, Aceves and kennedy fight it out for the #5 starter.
“*What the fascination with Dunn?* Strikes out alot, hits for low average and plays horrible defense. Frankly, I’d rather have Giambi back for a 1 or 2 year deal until Jesus Montero is ready to play first base for the major league club.”
40 HR/100 RBI per yr., high OPS w/ RISP. Under-priced in the market that’s some of the fascination.
CB/Ray and others.
I still read but do not post as I got frustrated trying to to defend my position even tough I just wanted solid baseball dialogue.
Congrats on CC and AJ. Two very, very good signings.
Kind Regards- dennis
That’s the Ariza I knew from his Knicks days, young and dumb.
“I said sign Tavarez IF Cashman doesn’t beleive Gardner can hit .270.”
hahahas, you think Tavaras could hit .270? get real. 95% of his hits came from bunts.
“40 HR/100 RBI per yr., high OPS w/ RISP. Under-priced in the market that’s some of the fascination.”
and thats without our short porch
Adam Dunn would have been first in home runs and walks and second to A-Rod in OPS, RBIs, SLG, and OBP if he was on the team last season.
Dunn and A-Rod would get 80 home runs a year, but could have 300 strike outs. Most Yankee fans would agree that every home run would be meaningless and every K would end the season.
Isn’t it possible for the yankees and petite to meet halfway thru incentives? Andy, you failed to show your perceived true worth last year, that’s why a paycut is just reasonable. Mr. Cashman, if you really want Andy back next season, isn’t it possible to offer him an incentive to give Andy a chance to work for that additional amount he is demanding, or something close to that? It could be in terms of ERA, wins or other valuable stats you need from him..
Dennis,
I have to say I understand your position about not posting but nonetheless find it very disappointing that you felt forced to stop posting and I have a feeling that I’m far from alone in that regard.
Your posts were a very welcome addition – always well thought out and well reasoned. Never aimed at goading in any way. Anyone who said otherwise was just plain wrong.
I strongly encourage you to start posting again or to at least give it a try again.
Believe me you don’t have to defend yourself in anyway. There’s simply no reason for that.
It’s difficult to get flack for no reason – but it’s simply nonsense without any merit that you would be well within bounds to simply ignore.
I know many of the regulars here enjoyed talking baseball with you a great deal. I count myself as one of them. We had some great conversations about the young pitchers and their struggles on the respective teams.
There’s a lot of noise here but also a wide diversity of views.
You added a lot to the discussion here. Red Sox fan or not you know way more about the game than the vast majority of people posting here and I’d like to see you return to participating in the forum.
Of course it’s completely up to you but I’d welcome your return as a poster and so would many others.
Ignore the noise and concentrate on discussing baseball with other posters you know.
I’d welcome discussing any baseball subject on your mind.
I love when Ray & Dennis post, great baseball discussion all around with them involved. Ignore the trolls & please post again!
Hilarious. ESPN poll question is which team Tex will sign with. Choices are:
1) Angels
2) Orioles
3) Nationals
4) Red Sox
5) Other
Other??!!? Just for that Cash should swoop in and turn Gammons’ tiny little almost-smile into more frowns and tears.
Cash should throw his shoes at Gammons.
no man should ever remove any article of his own clothing around Gammons, the old coot could take it the wrong way.
Peter Gammons! This is a goodbye kiss, you dog!
Harrington don’t do that your going to piss off Kobe
Nick,
The Yanks have not been in on Teixeira outside of driving his price up for someone else.
Teixeira will not be a Yankee. Bank on it.
Bank on this: Peter Gammons will make a poopy-diaper face in October.
CB-
Thank you for the kind words.
I was at Yankee stadium for the All Star Game and had great dialogue with Yankee fans and even though I had a “B” cap on I was treated well and enjoyed many discussions re: The Rivalry.
I never posted during games however in late June/early July folks thought I was a troll for being on the site.
That was not my motive as you pointed out.
This is a tremendous blog with some very informed posters.
You, SJ44, NickSF,Rebecca, Joe LI, Randy,GB, Rob, Brandon, Mel, Al, Fredo, Raymagnetic and others were great to chat with…(sorrry for the dangling preposition) I just got soured trying to defend that I was not a troll…I do see both sieds though as there are a ton of knuckleheads that post here just trying to stir it up.
Moving on….I am just glad to have the “Baseball Tonight” folks back in my life as there is no one that makes me feel better looking and in shape like John Kruk….
Kind Regards, -dennis
signing Tex would derail the Sox!
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....rail-BoSox
Time Warner Cable YOU SUCK !
Texiera is no where near the 1st ballot pay grade being thrown at him. The dude is super streaky and he’d lock up first base a position that needs to be flexible with so many aging permenant Yankee players…
I’m looking at you Jetere, Posada, and even you future forty two yr old homerun king.
Manny for 2 yrs with a buyout option just incase he goes all Redsox on us is the perfect recipe for number 27
Bank on that 8itch
I don’t understand every article saying the Yankees paid $61 million more for CC than the Brewers. They were offering him a 5 year $100 million contract. Yanks are 7 years and $161 million. As a yearly salary it is 3 million more-with an opt-out after 3 years. People just want to put a negative spin on Yankee transactions.
Good news for Baldelli
http://www.abc6.com/sports/36277274.html
Buddy,
I was going to post that but you beat me to it. lol, I would rather sign Baldelli then trading for Cameron. the Yanks should move quickly!!!
Agreed Ed!
buddy,
I think the Yanks dropped out which made them talk to the Brewers. hopefully Cashman sees the report, and contact Baldelii asap.
The Knicks.
They fought hard but the Lakers even w/o Gasol found a way to pull it out in LA.
tough loss for the knicks
Dennis,
Here’s the thing that I believe is something of a confounding factor regarding your posting.
Once the yanks fell out of contention many people just became absurdly abrasive here. It turned off many of the regulars and I can you baring some very negative comments.
Again – it’s up to you but I would like to see you start posting again. The winter has generally been much more calm and I don’t think ray or brian have been harrased too badly.
I think the key thing here is for you to just be confident in your own intentions.
You’ve always been remarkably polite and extremely careful not to come off as a someone just trolling a rivals site.
So the people calling you a troll are just dotes. Any observation about you being a “troll” based on your past posts is just obviously ridiculous and no reasonable person could find any merit to that.
The people calling you a troll are likely many of the same people who insult other yankee posters here as well for absolutely no reason.
As such there’s truly no need for you to defend yourself. None. No reasonable yankee fan would expect you to need to debate or defend your posting on this site at all and none of the regulars here as far as I know of have ever thought poorly of your posts. They are remarkably polite. I think that the biggest impression your posts leave.
I remember that people started giving you a hard time but I thought they were just so stupid I never paid it any mind and didn’t anticipate it had become an issue. If I’d known it was bothering you I would have said something about it then.
So again, I encourage you to participate again, particularly over the winter when things are much calmer here.
You’re a fortunate man to have gone to the all star game. Good to here you had a positive experience. Did you get to see the home run competition?
Tito is such a class act. The way he handled Mo in that game was terrific. He played it perfectly though the game didn’t work out as anticipated. I appreciated what he did to try to set Mo up to walk off the mound as the game ended.
Also – don’t know if I got to tell you this – i was unbelievably impressed with what Lars Anderson did when he got called up to the eastern league. Very impressed. Even for a cup of coffee it’s very difficult to do what he did at the age of 20.
is it because of the pressure during the last 5 mins?
I am so mad about this Knicks loss.
Wow, I really do care about them again.
Tough one for the Knicks I can’t believe this was close and we were playing what 7 guys? Geez!
Rocco Baldelli Misdiagnosed?
By Tim Dierkes [December 16 at 11:36pm CST]
From Ken Bell of ABC6 out of Rhode Island:
Great news for Rocco Baldelli. A visit to the Cleveland clinic last week revealed that doctors had misdiagnosed his illness. Baldelli missed much of last season, and when he did play, he was limited because of extreme fatigue. Doctors thought it was mitochondrial disorder, which can be fatal. The Baldelli family told me tonight that the Cleveland clinic diagnosed his condition as channelopathy, a non-progressive, highly treatable disease.
–MLBTR.com
His condition is treatable! NY has the best doctors. Lets sign this guy and plug him into CF! He’s young and brings pop from the right side. He can move to either corner position in the future. I’d love to see Ca$hman sign Baldelli. Lets take advantage of the fact he’s out there. He wont miss as much time anymore. He’s young and talented. He’s only been held back by his body. Bring him in!!!
lol, and Starbury still haven’t been released going in 20 games already.
ok, so lets be hoenst folks.. What do you think will happen.. is it true what Peters saying, how its going to be Cameron and Andy?? what do you think?? who are the last 2 players on the Yanks?
If we get Dunn he plays RF. He is no worse in RF then Abreu, but a better bat and cheaper. JD is in LF (his best position) and Swisher at 1B (his best position). So our defense is still poor, but at least Swish is a big upgrade over Giambi.
So our offense should be a little better then last year (mostly due to better years from Po, Cano, CF and Jeter), our D is a little better, and our pitching is outstanding.
When CC rides down Broadway in a victory parade, his buddy will see it and say “That looks fun. I want to do that too.”
“lol, and Starbury still haven’t been released going in 20 games already.
”
Ed- Take it easy on my Knicks you still upset about us beating you in your building?
gianthinker,
this is what i said 10 minutes ago:
-I would rather sign Baldelli then trading for Cameron. the Yanks should move quickly!!!
-I think the Yanks dropped out which made them talk to the Brewers. hopefully Cashman sees the report, and contact Baldelii asap.
With CC, AJ, Wang and Joba, why spend money on a #5? With Hughes, AA, IPK and other kids, it should be more then enough. Pettitte money could go to offense.
Al,
Yes. Harris and the boys were in good hands yet the choked away? wth.
lol
Okay Knicks fans heres a poll:
If the Knicks could sign 2 free agents in 2010 who would you want from this list:(pick 2)
A)Lebron James
B)Dwyane Wade
C)Chris Bosh
D)Amare Stoudemire
E)Steve Nash
F)Dirk Nowitzki
My answer- A and C
who cares about the knicks..
Many Yankee fans care about the Knicks.
“If the Knicks could sign 2 free agents in 2010 who would you want from this list:(pick 2)
A)Lebron James
B)Dwyane Wade
C)Chris Bosh
D)Amare Stoudemire
E)Steve Nash
F)Dirk Nowitzki
My answer- A and C”
Most likely but expect the Nets to go after A & B. They have the go for the project.
the NBA absolutely sucks.. sorry to break your hearts fellas, it’s either a pick and roll or an isolation
Definitely E and F! Two seasoned vets, one a wily Canadian and the other a Teutonic tactician, that’s what the Knicks need.
Maybe I need to think harder about it though.
“Most likely but expect the Nets to go after A & B. They have the go for the project.”
Nets won’t get Lebron their new arena hasn’t even begun construction it won’t be ready for 2010. Do you think his sponsors want him playing in the IZOD center for 2 years befor the arena is ready? I don’t think so.
Al,
the plan right now is to open the arena during the 2010-11 season, which i think its really dumb.
CB-
I will post again. I never lost confidence in my convictions however there is only a finite portion of the day/eve to devote to this and I got frustrated and it became no longer enjoyable.
I did not go to the HR Derby as my flight from Portland ME was cancelled that afternoon and I tried to fly stand by to no avail. I made it NY the day of the ASG at about 3PM.
Lars was great in AA Portland.
“Lars and the Real Girl” was a great movie as well since we are on the Lars subject!
From the soapbox….
Hughes is 22. I think he will have a break out year at some point this season. I agreed with your post the other day quoting Jim Palmer. He was rushed to the Bigs but I think he has front of the rotation type stuff.
Respectfully -dennis
Can I come in now? Is it safe?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....f=baseball
Ironically, Joba was named PAL Athlete of the Year. Joba’s going to make amends by talking to kids about the dangers of drinking.
Maybe it’s Randy and Alan Hendricks who are bidding against themselves.
Dennis,
Good to hear. Hope posting becomes enjoyable again.
Tough news on the stand bye flight. But you got to see the game and that’s what mattered. The intro was amazing and I’m sure it was something else in person.
For a while I couldn’t piece together why the sox would make a run at tex. It seemed so out of character for Theo given that youkilis and lowell were in place and Lars was turning into a super prospect. The fit seemed so forced. But I guess tex is their guy and they may be more worried about the line up than one would normally imagine. I wonder if they believe papi might be entering his decline phase and will go fast.
Look forward to continuing our conversations!
“Al,
the plan right now is to open the arena during the 2010-11 season, which i think its really dumb.”
Ya Ed its silly if they really want Lebron they should make amends with the City and get to work on that new building. I was in Brooklyn a few weeks ago and theres nothing going on with that arena.
CB-
Papi is in decline, Lowell is coming off surgery and Youk had a career year. Oh, and Manny is gone.
The offense is weak and aging in the middle of the order.
Theo has a crush on Tex similar to Drew. Time will tell if Tex is worth the $ whoever he signs with.
As usual, both of our seasons will most likely come down to players we do not expect contributions from…
-dennis
“Ya Ed its silly if they really want Lebron they should make amends with the City and get to work on that new building. I was in Brooklyn a few weeks ago and theres nothing going on with that arena.”
The shovel hits the ground in March. The big backer has committed a 8 yr. contract w/ the Nets. It is very possible Jay-Z has more influence in the courting of LeBron than people want to allow to think.
“I was in Brooklyn a few weeks ago and theres nothing going on with that arena.”
you are from Brooklyn. lol
I haven’t been one of those people who have said the Yankees should sign Tex, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes (and given some rumblings around the internet I have a feeling we might be seeing a classing Cashman late-entry type situation like with A-Rod and Damon). As Ken Rosenthal pointed out on foxsports.com, it makes sense. It would take away the Red Sox top target and the Yankees would still drop considerable payroll from last year. They would not have to trade for Cameron and while saving $10 million this year won’t pay for 8 years of contract, it gives them flexibility for this year. Then they could leave the offer on the table for Pettitte and if he decides not to sign, let Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy, etc fight for the last spot in the rotation. They would still come in around 200 million (if Pettitte signs) or 190 million (if he doesn’t). The Yankees have over 30 million coming off the books next year as well with Damon, Matsui and Nady (but with a good year, they may look to re-sign him). That more than pays for Tex’s contract for next year. Besides, the Yankees would have the best 3-4 in baseball for at least the next 4 or 5 years before A-Rod starts to falter.
Again, I don’t want to spend the Steinbrenner’s money, but it is there and the contract does make sense. I really think this could be a last second move where they outbid the Sox by just a little bit and let Tex play the same position as his hero growing up.
““I was in Brooklyn a few weeks ago and theres nothing going on with that arena.”
you are from Brooklyn. lol”
True but I been spending alot of time out on LI. Falling out of the loop lol.
If the Sox get Tex we should get Manny just for those 19 games a year we play against them. Guarantee you Manny would hit a dagger HR up in Fenway at least once and this time he’ll be on our side.
if boston gets tex, and we get Manny I wouldn’t even care.. Id be so damn happy.. I am one of the few fans on here that understand BASEBALL, and know we need manny
hey burger king Al.. Your a giants fan right?? as in the new york football giants
“I am one of the few fans on here that understand BASEBALL, and know we need manny”
I’m with ya Aaron. I am a Jets fan to answer your other question but I’ll support the Giants in the playoffs if we don’t make it.
(Ed – CC and AJ are now Yanks!! Aj better stays healthy!!!)
Glad to see someone else agrees with me. I’ve brought up Baldelli’s name all off-season and I’ve been dogged with dumb comments like “he’ll be tired after one game” and stuff like that. I wanted him then when I felt Damon/Melky/Gardner could give him days off once in a while. Now that they’ve finally figured out his illness he’ll be fine. He can play some D, he’s not great but not horrible. He has power from the right side which we need. He can be moved to a corner OF spot when needed (for AJAX). He’s only 27. We also know he can play in the AL East. I really hope we go after this guy. When I saw last year he’d be a free agent I targeted him right away. I really hope Ca$hman thinks about it because we can probably get more out of him and get him cheaper than Cameron.
well i just wanted to mention that the giants are about to sign Joe Horn, haha
“well i just wanted to mention that the giants are about to sign Joe Horn, haha”
Haven’t heard that name in awhile I still remember his cell-phone bit. Very funny.
ya its on NJ.COM. giants
ya signing Manny actually gives the Yanks options, and can give matsui and damon days off.. like putting manny in LF, and gardner in CF and DH damon once in awhile or matsui DH.. see whta im saying?
Pete, has Cashman said anything about Adam Dunn? We all know what his shortcomings are, but it’s crazy that such a productive, consistent player isn’t drawing much interest from any team
“ya signing Manny actually gives the Yanks options, and can give matsui and damon days off.. like putting manny in LF, and gardner in CF and DH damon once in awhile or matsui DH.. see whta im saying?”
Manny gives you insurance if Damon or Matsui go down which is entirely possible. Not to mention the 35 HR’s 100 RBI and .300 BA he’ll provide.
pat,
Here’s the link. It was actually in the Bats blog at the Times. Theo said they spend 99% of their time focusing on scouting and player development. Even Jack Curry’s not buying it.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....-sox-time/
“well i just wanted to mention that the giants are about to sign Joe Horn, haha”
Does he get back his patented celly
dennis-Costanza/Sox fan
December 17th, 2008 at 12:46 am
CB-
Thank you for the kind words.
I was at Yankee stadium for the All Star Game and had great dialogue with Yankee fans and even though I had a “B” cap on I was treated well and enjoyed many discussions re: The Rivalry.
I never posted during games however in late June/early July folks thought I was a troll for being on the site.
That was not my motive as you pointed out.
This is a tremendous blog with some very informed posters.
You, SJ44, NickSF,Rebecca, Joe LI, Randy,GB, Rob, Brandon, Mel, Al, Fredo, Raymagnetic and others were great to chat with…(sorrry for the dangling preposition) I just got soured trying to defend that I was not a troll…I do see both sieds though as there are a ton of knuckleheads that post here just trying to stir it up.
Moving on….I am just glad to have the “Baseball Tonight” folks back in my life as there is no one that makes me feel better looking and in shape like John Kruk….
Kind Regards, -dennis
————————————————————
Dennis, I’d hate to see a great contributor/poster leave because of the color of their uniform. Baseball talk between fan great and the best way to pass time….whether it’s during a game or not. Hopefully, you reconsider and return with your style, game day or not.
Ray (sox fan) posts during the games but he wears a Yankee hat just throw people off the track. Everybody knows he’s a spy, so we lock up all of the signs and top secrets….and the silverware. Anyway, you’re welcome back anytime. Eventually, the trolls will grow up….maybe. Have a good night.
over/under the days of when Tex will make his decision, which it won’t be with the Yanks?
Ed,
The Dalai Lama (Dan Patrick used to call Peter Gammons that) said 24-48 hours. Unless the Nats really ramp it up, he said it’s down to Sox & Angels. Of course he said the Yankees were in it to just drive up the price. I take exception to that. The Yankees would love to be “stuck” with Tex.
Mel,
here’s an article that i posted earlier:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....rail-BoSox
Signing Tex would derail the Sox.
8yrs/$176 or 8yrs/$180 ….thats what we need to offer Teixeira. I’m not giving up hope until he’s signed (probably the RedSux). I dont see how we cant afford the $180M. Whats the point in signing AJ and CC if we dont give them run support because we weakened our lineup? We have like $30 more off the books this year we haven’t spent yet and another $30+ more next off-season. To claim the Yankees cant afford Teixeira is ridiculous. Its the best move we have at this point. Ca$hman does not want to see him in Boston for the next decade. At least make an offer Ca$hman and I wont complain.
TEX TO THE YANKS MAKE IT HAPPEN CA$HMAN!!!!!!
Ed,
Seriously, Tex is there for the taking. Part of me thinks that their interest is lukewarm because the Stein Bros. like Manny. But if Boston gets Tex, Manny will be an Angel.
The people who keep harping about Teixeira are simply giving themselves false hope because it’s not going to happen.
They’ve shown very little interest in Teixeira since the beginning and certainly aren’t going to enter the sweepstakes now that the bidding may very well get very close to $200M for a guy who isn’t one of the five best run producers in baseball.
If Tex goes to the Sux we should get Manny its only fair. At the bare minimum we need Dunn. What if any of these bats goes down this year, we have a situation on our hands! Its silly to go into a new season with just enough offense, we all know that there will be an injury it happens every year. What if Matsui or Damon go down? We are even worse off than this year because Abreu and Giambi are gone. If we dont find a bat somewhere we will not get enough run-support for all those pitchers we just bought. CC will lose a ton of 3-2 games and the FO will have to answer the fans.
The FO is already answering to the fans by giving them a new ballpark and spending $240M+ on Sabathia and Burnett to shore up the rotation.
When this team had the most dangerous lineup in MLB from 2004 to 2007 they didn’t win a damn thing. Pitching wins.
Manny Ramirez?
He’s not a left fielder. He’s a DH. And they already have a DH – his name is Matsui and they aren’t paying him $13M next season to sit on the bench.
The way the market is going, there will be quite a few teams in salary dump mode this season.
If the Yanks need a bat – Cashman can swing a deal and get one.
The “pitching wins” comment has been used by people all offseason to end any discussion about improving the lineup. That’s not enough of an argument when the Yankees scored 3 runs or less in 68 games last year. That they lose 2 of their top 3 hitters and replace them with guys that are clearly not as good. Just look at projected the lineup for next season.
Damon – relies on his speed, will be 35
Jeter – relies on his speed, will be 35
Swisher – hit .219 last year, SHOULD improve
A-Rod – best hitter in baseball
Posada – 38 year old catcher coming off season ending injury
Matsui – 35 year old coming off season ending injury, 2 surgically repaired knees
Nady – can he repeat last year’s career best numbers?
Cano – .305 OBP last year, SHOULD improve
Gardner – .582 OPS in 127 ML at bats
I’m not saying the Yankees should expect the worst from each guy in the lineup, but expecting the best doesn’t make any sense either. They had a 19-49 record in games that they scored 3 runs or less. How many games do you think they will score 3 runs or less with this offense, and what do you think there record will be?
But the solution to the offensive deficiencies is not just limited to spending another $200M and 10 years of commitment on one guy or $75M on a head case with more baggage than an airport.
If they need a bat, Cashman can swing a deal for one during the season.
It’s obvious that Teixeira is not on their radar because not only have the Yanks already landed their #1 priority this offseason in Sabathia – but their #2 priority as well in Burnett.
Their #3 priority in Pettitte is likely to get signed soon enough as well.
The solution to their problem is not always signing the biggest name. They’ll have to find another way because the odds are almost zero that either one of those guys will be wearing pinstripes this season.
If they stick Manny in LF – they’ve got the worst defensive outfield in baseball by a significant margin and whatever he contributes offensively is at least partially negated by their horrific defense.
And make no mistake – they’d have a HORRIFIC defense. Worse than ever.
Now if Manny is the full-time DH – Matsui is essentially immovable because he doesn’t have much trade value given his age and health and he’s not going to sit the bench for $13M.
If Adam Dunn, a younger, healthier, and overall better run producer than Matsui isn’t drawing much interest – imagine what little trade value Matsui has in this market?
Also, and here’s something else that they’ll have to worry about, what makes you think Manny would be happy as a full-time DH?
He’s always played the field and has never been limited to DH duties for any length of time.
He may not like being the everyday DH and when you take the Manny plunge – that’s the kind of crap the Yanks would have to deal with on an everyday basis – making sure Manny isn’t p!ssed off for whatever reason and hoping he stays motivated.
If they need a bat, that’s fine. Cashman will have to go out and get one sooner or later.
But his choices aren’t just limited to Mark Teixeira or Manny Ramirez. Other bats will surface during the season.
I agree with what you’re saying about Manny. I definitely don’t think the Yankees should go after him. But you don’t really say why you think the Yankees shouldn’t sign Teixeira other than the Yankees have shown so far that they aren’t interested.
What I think the Yankees should do is sign Teixeira for $22mil/yr over 8 years rather than go after another pitcher or Cameron. Go into the season with Hughes in the rotation and Damon in center with Nady and Swisher at the corners. You lose defense in center, but people underrate the defense Tex gives you at first over Swisher and underrate Damon’s range in center. With an offense that good, they can rest all the older players to keep them as healthy as possible.
People say that you can’t compare signing Teixeira to 1 year deals for Pettitte and Cameron, but if they don’t get Teixeira they will have to sign offensive players next year anyway, probably Holliday to almost as big a contract. With this plan, they could go into ‘10 with Jeter, Cano, A-Rod, Tex, Swish, Posada, and Jackson in the lineup a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Burnett, and Hughes and Mariano, Marte, and the young guys in the bullpen all for a little over $170 million. All they’d need to do is pick up a LF and a bench and the team is set and the payroll is under control.
Give me Manny any day over Andy/Cameron. They’re both washed up. I love Andy, but he didn’t get it done last year. Cameron was appalling in the field when I saw him in the playoffs.
See if Gardner/Cabrera can do it in Center; they’re both young and may have upside. Give Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy a shot at the #5 spot. In each case you can pick up a replacement during the season.
The line-up is so much better with Manny. Can’t rely on the return to form of Posada/Matsui/Cano. Injuries could affect other parts of the aging line-up too.
I agree with Ken Rosenthal’s article on Foxsports. Why should the Yankees stop now. They can skip Cameron and Pettite and continue to go after an impact player. It is time for the young pitchers like Hughes to pitch anyway.
They won’t sign Teixeira because the organization is not interested in spending $420M-$440M on three players and have said repeatedly that they want to lower the payroll.
And you can’t undervalue what Pettitte brings to this team and that’s his 200 IP in the back of the rotation. That’s something Hughes, Aceves, and Kennedy combined couldn’t do for this team last year.
I have no problem with Hughes getting a starting slot in 2010 after Pettitte retires if he pitches a full injury-free 2009 – but I wouldn’t give it to him this season because of his inexperience and he hasn’t exactly been an iron man the last couple of years.
Given Burnett’s injury history, Joba’s innings cap, and Wang coming off his injury – Pettitte’s contribution becomes all that more important to the depth of the rotation.
Guys who throw 200 IP don’t grow on trees. In fact, only 15 pitchers in the AL accomplished that feat – just an average of one per team – and Pettitte was one of them despite slowing down in the second half due to shoulder fatigue.
All it takes is an injury or two to the rotation and it exposes a weakness. That’s why they need Pettitte back a lot more than many Yankee fans realize.
Our next investment is in 27 & 28, when we sign Manny…
Manny LF
Damon CF
Nady RF
Hideki DH……
See if Gardner/Cabrera can do it in Center; they’re both young and may have upside.
———-
Then what do you do with Damon? Make him the DH?
Then what do you do with Matsui? You can’t trade him and he’s not riding the bench.
And again, if you make Manny the DH – how do you know if he’ll be happy and stay motivated as the everyday DH?
You don’t. That’s exactly why signing Manny doesn’t make a lot of sense and I bet Cashman doesn’t do it.
Viper:
Thats the whole point, bats will surface during the season that WILL cost players from the farm….Manny is a FA..this line-up would be ridiculous with Manny at the 4 spot…and we have pitching…
The difference that Pettitte and Hughes/Aceves in the rotation is no where near the difference between Teixeira and Gardner in the lineup even with the worse defense in CF (and better defense at 1B). No one can argue that.
Manny LF
Damon CF
Nady RF
Hideki DH……
————–
Then you’ve got the worst defensive outfield and probably the worst defensive ball club in the league and negates some of whatever upside Manny brings you offensively.
Name the last World Series champion who had the worst defense in their respective league.
Defense means something in this game, ya know.
I bet they do sign him, IMO thats why the Cameron deal didn’t go down..The brewers wanted the Yanks to eat the money….they realized it didn’t help them that much…If your gonna get a 36yr old it mine as well be the Best Hitter out there..and not a declining CF…
“Manny LF
Damon CF
Nady RF
Hideki DH……”
thats an awful defensive OF, but with the runs they’d put up on the scoreboard every game i dont think it would matter all that much.
27,
I think we saw last season what happened to the Yanks’ rotation when they handed the #5 slot to an unproven kid based on his stats from the previous September.
It didn’t work.
Hughes has to stay healthy and actually start winning games for a full season before he gets handed a starting slot again and you can’t determine anything about Aceves based on a select few appearances in September.
They made that mistake with Hughes and Kennedy last year and it exploded in their face.
“Defense means something in this game, ya know.”
although, when you have strikeout pitchers like Sabathia Burnett, and Joba and a ground pitcher in Wang as your 1-4 in the rotation, you hope to not have to worry too much about leaning on your defense all that much.
TurnTwo:
Exactly, also this is only for 1yr, and you keep Mely and Gardner…gives us depth….and a transition….to next year.
Viper,
You’re comparing a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes, and Kennedy to a CC, Wang, Burnett, Hughes/Aceves, and Joba. The Yankees were able to replace their 4th and 5th starters last year. That wasn’t the problem. The problem was replacing Wang and Joba when they went down.
CC, Wang, Burnett, Hughes/Aceves, and Joba is a strong rotation, one of the best in the AL. The Yankees lineup was 8th best in the AL last season and has gotten worse and is counting on guys that are coming off bad years or serious injuries. You think they should sign an pitcher and trade for a bat if the need one. I think they should sign a great hitter and trade for a pitcher if they need one.
Like I said, I bet Cashman doesn’t do it.
He’s been preaching “get younger and get better defensively” and he’s not going to do a complete 180 and sign Manny Ramirez.
Girardi and Manny would not be a good marriage and signing him would be like throwing a grenade in the middle of the club house.
“Exactly, also this is only for 1yr, and you keep Mely and Gardner…gives us depth….and a transition….to next year.”
i could care less about keeping Melky, really. i’m open to giving Gardner a chance.
i’m just salivating over the offensive production that lineup could guarantee over the next couple years.
you put that together with the rotation as it now stands, and thats easily a 95 win team.
“He’s been preaching “get younger and get better defensively” and he’s not going to do a complete 180 and sign Manny Ramirez.”
its already been noted that Manny is a Hal/Hank thing; not a Cashman thing. if anything, if the Manny signing went down, you could automatically throw it into the “Steinbrenner Family Overrules” category with ARod last year, and Sheffield, and Randy Johnson, etc.
“Girardi and Manny would not be a good marriage and signing him would be like throwing a grenade in the middle of the club house.”
winning cures a lot of illnesses.
This from Ken Bell of ABC6 of Rhode Island:
“Great news for Rocco Baldelli. A visit to the Cleveland clinic last week revealed that doctors had misdiagnosed his illness. Baldelli missed much of last season, and when he did play, he was limited because of extreme fatigue. Doctors thought it was mitochondrial disorder, which can be fatal. The Baldelli family told me tonight that the Cleveland clinic diagnosed his condition as channelopathy, a non-progressive, highly treatable disease.”
27,
Given the rotations of the Rays and Red Sox, the Yanks need a rotation with more depth than their rivals and Hughes/Aceves isn’t going to cut it.
They need Pettitte to provide that depth because of all the reasons I said in my comment at 7:57 – protecting against injuries and the need for a workhorse who will throw 200 IP.
Cashman has made it pretty clear that giving Hughes a slot in the rotation is not an option this time and prefers to sign a FA.
saw that about Baldelli.
if that really is the case, and he was misdiagnosed and his condition is treatable, there is your CF next season (or should be).
id personally much rather take the risk on Baldelli than bring in Cameron.
Im sure its been reported here, but The Daily News is reporting that the Yankees are going after Manny “hard.”
Im sure its Boras using the media to apply pressure on LA, though.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ram-1.html
TurnTwo;
There you go Baldelli, Manny and a starter and we are done…
its already been noted that Manny is a Hal/Hank thing; not a Cashman thing.
Hank’s preference for Manny has been well documented but only one source said Hal would approve it and we don’t know if there is any truth to that.
It’s not like the hot stove isn’t full of a lot of bogus rumors.
Besides, Hal and Hank is not George. We have no idea if Hal would overrule his GM.
We already know Hank’s opinion doesn’t matter much. He was outspoken about getting Santana and that never happened.
Hank also wanted Joba in the rotation back in April and they continued with the plan and made the transition in June last season.
Just because Hank wants something doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Not by a long shot.
Tim: if we sign a healthy Baldelli, we don’t need Manny.
“There you go Baldelli, Manny and a starter and we are done…”
idk if i buy into the Baldelli situation just yet, or if its that simple.
certainly, if Baldelli turns out to be healthy, the Yankees wont be the only team in on him.
and if you buy into the payroll storyline, you prob cant afford both Manny and Baldelli, let alone another SP.
winning cures a lot of illnesses.
————–
Tell that to the Red Sox when he quit on his team and forced them to get rid of him.
Francona said that the second half of 2008 was the most fun he ever had managing – a not-so-subtle jab at Manny and the crap he had to deal with on an everyday basis.
Tim: if we sign a healthy Baldelli
———
I’d call that an oxymoron. He hasn’t played a full season in years – maybe never.
a future outfield of:
Holliday
Ajax
Baldelli
?
I don’t want the Yankees to sign Manny. The thought of having to root for that pos sickens me. I’ve hated him since he got to the soxs and to know how him on the Yankees. EWWW I know it would make Alex that much better, but there is another place to turn. You don’t have to stomp on everything the Yankees stand for. It isn’t worth it to sign him to jab the soxs.
Just because this blog doesn’t want something doesn’t mean it won’t happen either…
“Just because Hank wants something doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Not by a long shot.”
i didnt say that if Hank wants it, it’ll be done.
i just said if Manny does turn out to be a Yankee, it would be clear to me that Cashman was overruled.
“” “Manny LF
Damon CF
Nady RF
Hideki DH……”
thats an awful defensive OF, but with the runs they’d put up on the scoreboard every game i dont think it would matter all that much. “”
I dont know why people are assuming that Matsui is going to be healthy all year long, even at DH. Sure, not playing the outfield will cut down on the wear and tear is two surgically repaired knees would have. But there is also wear and tear of running the bases too.
We also dont know for sure what shape Matsui will be in once ST starts … will he even be ready for Opening Day?
Therefore, why should we automatically fill a lineup spot for him without knowing if he is fully healthy and will stay healthy.
My feeling is that we put Manny in LF, Melky/Gardner (or Cameron if they make the trade) in CF, and Nady in RF. Have Damon start most games at DH so we keep his limp noodle arm and declining range off the field and keep him fresher game in/game out as the grind of the season wears on. Matsui essentially becomes what Strawberry and Sierra were in the past … big bat off the bench, part time DH, part time LF (if his knees can take it).
If he does not like it, then he may be more willing to waive his No Trade since he is in walk year and wants to prove that he deserves another contract beginning in 2010.
viper: I know. Except, he does have the tools. And the best name, in baseball.
2003 was his first and only full season of playing.
http://www.baseball-reference......ro01.shtml
Kinda strange that this ‘news’ comes out now on him. I am a little skeptical. Although I would imgine anyone who would sign him would get tests done of their own.
jennifer:
I could care less about jabbing the sux’s, I think Manny would be great…for our offense…jabbing the SUX’s is just an added bonus…
Bizarre as he is, Manny is still one of the greatest pure hitters of all time.
He also grew up about 10 blocks from YS, correct?
“Tell that to the Red Sox when he quit on his team and forced them to get rid of him.”
that Red Sox team also didnt win without Manny in their lineup.
“Kinda strange that this ‘news’ comes out now on him. I am a little skeptical. Although I would imgine anyone who would sign him would get tests done of their own.”
agreed… thats why i say, i dont think its really that simple.
whoever is interested in him is going to have to do a lot of homework, and get very creative in the deal they present to him.
Manny is the best “clutch hitter” in the game today…
We could surely use a clutch hitter and someone who could hit with RISP..he made the whole LA line-up better last year…
“Given the rotations of the Rays and Red Sox, the Yanks need a rotation with more depth than their rivals and Hughes/Aceves isn’t going to cut it.”
The Yankees team improves much more and becomes much more competitive in the division by adding Teixeira than adding Pettitte. You can talk about pitching depth all you want, but the difference between Hughes and Pettitte as the 4th starter and 5th best pitcher in the rotation is not as important as replacing Bret Gardner’s bat with Mark Teixeira.
“The Yankees team improves much more and becomes much more competitive in the division by adding Teixeira than adding Pettitte. You can talk about pitching depth all you want, but the difference between Hughes and Pettitte as the 4th starter and 5th best pitcher in the rotation is not as important as replacing Bret Gardner’s bat with Mark Teixeira”
doesn’t matter. NYY is not signing Tex.
not signing pettitte will mess up the alignment of the pitching staff.
it will take all of hughes,acevez,etc to cover injuries & relieve joba so he does not go over 140 innings.
wether joba is 4 or 5 do we wan’t those last 2 spots being filled with a pitcher that will have to be skipped often & pulled early and the other spot filled with hughes,acevez,kennedy,etc??
if joba wasn’t on a pitch limit then the 5th spot wouldn’t matter much at all as long as the pitcher was ok & not terrible but not being solid 1-5 will put pressure everywhere else.
this team should of been dismantled long ago.we are in a tough spot.
A channelopathy is the umbrella classification for a number of diseases.
In his year in a half or so trial period, Melky has more than proven that he simply cannot hit period. He has an OBP of nearly .300 with zero plate discipline. I know that Cameron’s OBP was around .330 and that he’s a K machine but at least he has some power with the 25HR’s. Melky adds nothing with bat, he’s an automatic out. On top of that he does have a great arm, but he’s average at best with the glove.
From Gardner’s brief trial period; he’s shown no ability to hit at the MLB level. That’s not to say he never will, but this is not the year to once again go the cheap route and hope that one of these kids will pan out in CF. As another poster pointed out, there were 68 games last year where the Yankees scored 3 runs or less which was with Giambi and Abreu!
I don’t care if it’s Cameron or Baldelli, but the Yankees need to get someone because neither Melky nor Gardner is acceptable in CF!
I also agree that signing Pettitte does add alot of value based on the innings factor.
If Pettitte turns down the $10 million, if if we sign Sheets instead we’ll still relying on yet another huge injury risk.
Also, I agree with so many others that Cashman should be going all out for Tex! I realize that there’s probably no chance that it happens, but I don’t understand why! This team had $30 million come off the books last year and will have about the same next year as well. I can’t believe this, but I actually agree with Ken Rosenthal!!
Hey Bru:
How can you say that “this team should’ve been dismantled a long time ago??”
You don’t think the Yankees can compete with this pitching staff?? What should they have done had a huge Florida Marlins style fire sale and not even tried as they head into the New Stadium and into the 8th straight year of not winning the WS??
“that Red Sox team also didnt win without Manny in their lineup.”
Not sure they didn’t win BECAUSE Manny wasn’t in the lineup. They did go 34-18 after he left and came within a game of the WS. Not getting there was probably a lot more about the 40 or runs Boston allowed in ALCS Games 2-5 than it was Ramirez’s absence from the lineup. Bay is not Ramirez, but he served as a pretty adequate replacement, hitting .340+ with 3 homers and 9 RBI and an OPS of 1.100 in the playoffs.
NHYankee62
they should compete but with a 180 million dollar payroll or more they should be better & signing cc,burnett & losing giambi & abraeu makes them as good as boston & tampa,maybe a little better.
we should of traded damon,matsui,cano when we had the chance wich we did.
cano could of gotten us kemp who is 2 yrs younger,cost 500 thousand a year,puts up the same numbers,a much better base runner & he will get better.
this team has no speed at all & are not good defensively & that will not cut it.
a lot of teams will have good pitching & it is the other things that separate them.
i see this team having serious problems scoring.
“that Red Sox team also didnt win without Manny in their lineup”
Josh Beckett’s 8.42 post season ERA had more to do with the Red Sox post season loss then missing Manny.
“Not sure they didn’t win BECAUSE Manny wasn’t in the lineup… Bay is not Ramirez, but he served as a pretty adequate replacement, hitting .340+ with 3 homers and 9 RBI and an OPS of 1.100 in the playoffs.”
and this may all be true.
but they still havent won a thing without him.
and you cant say he was the reason they werent winning before the deadline. the team was 61-48, and Manny was batting .300/.388/.529 while in Boston.
in the end really, he was neither the reason for their failure and his absence cant be recognized for their success.
Baldelli!!!!!! + Manny + Andy (if he accepts) and lets wrap this show up. Make sure to overbid on Tex and get the Sux in for over 200/10
If Baldelli is somehow magically healthy you absolutely have to pursue him. Come to think of it if he can only play 4 out of 7 days you’d have to pick him up IMO. That man has something special and I for one would prefer him to Cameron/Melky/BG (not a hard choice I guess when Cameron is the only legit hitter between the 3). You have to believe (which I do) that Rocc can come to play at least as much as I said before or it is probably too dangerous. If he is, you have a CF who hits .300/.340/.500 with a few dingers, and you can move Rocco or A-Jax to a corner next year. The Yankees would have a studly young outfield.
If this news of his misdiagnosis is true he may have many teams taking a harder look at him. If it isn’t (I won’t vouch for it) that’s some slimy journalism.
“Josh Beckett’s 8.42 post season ERA had more to do with the Red Sox post season loss then missing Manny.”
though you cant say Manny’s .500+/.400+/1.000+ offensive line in the postseason in LA wouldnt have helped the Saux, either.
All this is a waste of words. The Yankees’ everyday lineup is old, slow, and getting older and slower. The lack of attention to this problem will negate any additions in the pitching department. This does not even take into account the fac tatold guys get injured. Does anyone here think tat Matsui, Posada, Damon, etc. are going to make it through the year without injuries? If you do you are dreaming. I would have gone all out to sign Teixera instead of signing Burnett. Putting Tex in the 4 hole behind ARod would make the whole lineup much better not to mention younger and much better defensively. In the AL East you need both pitching AND hitting. I am a lifeong Yankee fan but this team as presently configured will have a lot of trouble scoring runs which would have been able to put pressure on the Sux and Rays’ pitching staffs. Hate to say it gang but we are looking at another year in 3rd place and out of the playoffs. Sorry if the truth upsets you.
Get Baldelli!
Get Manny and use Baldelli as a Utility bench player…he could play all outfield positions. He could be the Melky of the past.
Come on Pete, new day, new news!
Baldelli’s new diagnosis is a nice story, but IMO he’s always been overrated as a player, especially offensively. A .275 – .280 right-handed hitter who never walks probably isn’t going to play all that well at Yankee Stadium.
Now if Hank and Hal and Cash all let it be known that they really wanted Manny, what would that allow Boras to do?
The Yankees have mad Manny an offer….3 years 75 mil. do it, do it
Can’t believe I’m agreeing with anything Ken Rosenthal wrote, but in today’s column he’s right.
Forget signing Pettitte for $10mil. Hold a competition in Spring Training for the last rotation spot and save the money.
Forget strikeout machine Cameron and his $10mil. Melky can hold the fort defensively. If he learns just a little plate discipline and gets his obp to at least the .330 range they can live with him for a year.
Take the $20 mil you’d save and some of the $40mil coming off the books next year and fill the biggest hole in the lineup.Sign Tex and hurt Boston!
I realize the Yankees have almost no chance at signing Teixeira, but I think it is a mistake. Signing him takes Gardner out of the lineup and gives the Yankees a great offense, but it also keeps him out of Boston.
If it was up to me, I would have signed CC, Teixeira, and Pettitte. Signing Burnett gives the Yankees more of a need to sign another pitcher because there’s a great chance he’s going to get hurt. If the Yankees sign Pettitte instead of Burnett, its as close to a guarantee as you can get that the top 3 starters are going to pitch 200 innings. That would let them go into the season with Joba, Hughes, Aceves, and Kennedy as the 4, 5, 6, and 7 starters and the option of making a trade for a back of the rotation starter mid season if they needed to.
Even with the Burnett signing, I still think the Yankees can afford signing Teixeira and wait for there to be a problem in the rotation before they make a move. I was happy about the CC signing and the trade for Swisher, but signing AJ, resigning Marte instead of getting 2 draft picks for him, and passing on Teixeira are all moves the Yankees are going to regret. Oh well.
“You have to believe (which I do) that Rocc can come to play at least as much as I said before or it is probably too dangerous. If he is, you have a CF who hits .300/.340/.500 with a few dingers”
No, you don’t. You have .280/.325/.440 with a few dingers.
That is good news on Baldelli, if it’s true. I’m sure the Yankees will do their due diligence and look to sign him if they feel he can play. He has a lot of natural skill, if he could ever stay healthy he would probably be a pretty good player.
Hey Bru,
I agree with you 100% about Cano! I can’t stand his lackadaisical effort. To make it even worse, Girardi doesn’t have the balls to bench him for his antics (sorry but benching him at the end of the year when the team is out of it doesn’t count).
I’m all for going all out for Tex. I don’t see why they won’t do it. As I said, Rosenthal is actually right for a change!! The Yankees still need hitting and what better way to improve that need by keeping him away from the Sox at the same time. Unfortunately that’s not going to happen, we can only hope that the Angels end up signing Tex. As many have pointed out already, the mistake of not pursuing Tex, is very similar to not going after Beltran 3 or 4 years ago.
Finally, I think you would agree bru, that neither Melky nor Gardner is acceptable in CF. Cashman needs to making something happen for either Cameron or Baldelli. Just get someone, anyone who’s not an automatic out!
Fredo– I know 2006 is a long time ago but I think that’s the type of player, when healthy Baldelli can be. I am also looking at him in the context of being a CF. If you move him off of CF he is definitely worth a bit less but he still has a world of talent. It’s all about his health IMO.
Baldelli might be worth a Lieber/Dotel type of deal if he’s open to it.
Pay him to try and get healthy in order to benefit if and when he does and in the meantime be satisfied with whatever he can give them.
Nady, Damon and Matsui are all free agents next year so Rocco might be a nice thing to have in their pocket as an option.
“No, you don’t. You have .280/.325/.440 with a few dingers.”
well, to be fair, if he has a condition that is really treatable, and he comes back and proves he’s healthy, the average line on the seasons he player before his original health issues would look more like .290/.330/.462.
small difference, but it winds up being a happy medium between the two viewpoints.
No. 27
I agree that the Yankees still should be able to afford Tex right now. Not pursuing him and hoping he doesn’t go to the Sox is a mistake, but it certainly does NOT spell doom and gloom.
In signing AJ, the Yankees signed the 2nd most talented pitcher available (other than CC). AJ also had an outstanding record against the AL East. The guy just has phenomenal talent. Getting Pettitte to come back for $10 million will be a major insurance for the injury risk with AJ.
Finally, how is resigning Marte a mistake? Obviously he didn’t do too well with the Yankees, but the guy has a very solid track record. I think it’s definitely worth giving a talented lefty another shot. If he can pitch well, that’s a huge boost to the bullpen. Just imagine a good lefty in Marte who can be your LOOGY or you 8th inning guy. Combine him with Veras and Bruney setting up for MO; then you have one of the best bullpens in baseball.
I see Manny signing with the Yankees with a new attitude and dedication.
I see Robby Cano giving up his uniform number to Manny and taking No. 14 in replacement.
I see Manny getting a Robby Cano style haircut and a uniform that fits like a real major league ballplayer.
I see Manny used in LF, RF, and DH depending on who pitches and who needs rest including himself by being honest with his manager.
I think Pete’s not posting because if the Yanks end up signing Manny 3/75 it means Cashman was not honest with him about the off season budget and he has to take off the wet blanket he’s been trying to put on us about acquiring a big hitter in free agency.
Hey Swami,
I got some land down in Florida I’d like to sell ya!
Yankees have a great bullpen with or without Marte. Anytime you can get 2 first round picks for a reliever that isn’t a closer, you gotta do it. At worst, he takes arbitration, you have him on a 1 year deal, which is better than having a reliever on a 3 year deal with how inconsistent middle relievers are. At best you have 2 picks in the top 50 and the bullpen is still strong.
Part of me says “Just say NO to Manny.” IMO, you cannot reward that kind of behavior. More important, it’s only a matter of time before Posada or Girardi are breaking their knuckles on this guy’s head. He is selfish, unprofessional and incompetent in LF, and, added to Damon, Matsui and Nady, with him you dumb down the OF to less than mediocre. That said, baseball’s a business and he’s an offensive force and he won’t require a 6 year or longer commitment like Teix.
Believe it or not, it’s a tough call.
“the average line on the seasons he player before his original health issues would look more like .290/.330/.462.”
Those numbers look in the mirror and they see Xavier Nady staring back at ‘em. Just sayin’ he’s not a guy to go crazy over. He’s a high .700’s OPS guy, which makes him fairly ordinary. OK guy to have, but he doesn’t give the Yankees anything they don’t possess already. Where 4th OF’s go, I’d just assume use Gardner in that capacity on the cheap as he’s probably a better defender right now than Baldelli is.
the yankees with their new toys will beat the teams not as good as them but when the big dance comes when you have teams,maybe not a lot but teams with solid pitching 1-4 & 5 like boston,tampa then the offens comes into play.
if our pitching is good we will compete every day.the overlooked thing that gives us a huge advantage is our bullpen.it is going to be the best in baseball.it is deep,young,cheap.
ok i know that didn’t sound good if you know what i mean but we are loaded with a ton of pitchers in the minors.
nobody knows how it will all look when it is all said & done.the question is will we get the big hits when we need them?
cf is a problem at least on paper.should we trade hughes,cano,acevez,etc… for a cf,go with what we got,sign baldelli,cam?? i would love a trade for chris dickerson from cincy.
i know ajax might be ready soon but why not trade for a cf & move somebody to a corner of spot if needed?
can kennedy,melky & a few prospects get us a good young cf without giving up hughes,cano,montero,ajax? if not should we trade hughes & someone else to fix cf for a long time??
“can kennedy,melky & a few prospects get us a good young cf without giving up hughes,cano,montero,ajax?”
No.
No.27:
Ever hear that you can never have enough pitching??
How exactly do the Yankees have a great bullpen with no Marte?
Veras and Ramirez have only done it for one year and they had their share of struggles last year.
Marte definitely helps.
Fredo, what about what Gardener did last season makes you believe he could even hit .280/.330? I suppose we get caught up in the fact that I see Baldelli as the guy he was progressing into at age 24. I think (caveat being he is at least 90% healthy) you’re looking at an .800 OPS guy, and at the CF position that’s real good, a world apart from what you get from Melky or Gardener.
If he isn’t healthy, you’re right, .700s OPS and can’t play near everyday, which would be useless as we need as close to an everyday CF as we can get.
“Just sayin’ he’s not a guy to go crazy over.”
Oh, i agree. He’s not the next coming of christ in CF, but as an OF, he’s a solid player who always projected to be a very productivce MLB’er.
all i was saying earlier was that if it was between trading for Cameron or doing some reasearch and take a risk on a healthy Baldelli, id prob prefer the chance on Baldelli right now.
Olney says the Orioles offer to Tex isn’t enough to get it done without a hometown discount.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3775042
Re: Manny, its all about the deal.
The more security you give him, the greater chance he will “Manny being Manny”.
The less security, the greater chance he becomes, “Manny, best RH hitter of this generation”.
3 years? He becomes “Manny being Manny”.
1 or 2 years? He becomes the “Best RH hitter of this generation”.
That’s the challenge for the Yankees. Really, for any team that has to deal with him.
The contract determines what Manny you get and that makes teams VERY uneasy.
Me? If I could get him for 1 or 2 years, I’d sign him. If not, I’d pass and wait until January to see what hitters fall through the cracks. Make no mistake, some VERY good hitters will be looking for work come January.
murphydog:
I agree it’s atough call, I could be wrong I just don’t sse us giving 10yrs to Tex, Manny has alot of the skills and qualities we need offensively…3yrs…75Mill..he will be very happy in NY.
SJ44:
I agree, what about a 3rd yr opt out clause..
they should of traded damon,matsui,cano.kemp in cf.
payroll down to 111.5 million with kemp in cf.
cc(23 million)
burnett(16.5 million)
pettitte(11 million)
tex(23 million)
payroll at 185 million
rotation of
cc
wang
burnett
pettitte
joba
we would need a leadoff hitter/2nd baseman to replace cano??? maybe furcal or a trade.gonzalez would of been perfect if we kept him.
after the 09 season we would only need 1 outfielder instead of 3 with ajax in the mix so we possibly wouldn’t need any outfielders at all & we are sitting 180 million or less with nady & molina off the books.
“1 or 2 years? He becomes the “Best RH hitter of this generation”.”
Not named Pujols. And maybe Rodriguez.
You can never have enough pitching. You need to play one game at a time. No lead is safe. Every game is a playoff game at this point. Pitching wins championships.
So what? The Yankees have a ton of young relief pitchers.
sorry payroll would be 169 million with pettitte off the books after 09.
You would Manny and A-rod chasing 600, then 700…Oh my it would be great..IMO…next year you Target Albert for 1st..
Nope. The less security for him the better.
Part of the problem of dealing with Manny is that you can’t reward his past behavior. If you do, he will never change it.
If you give him what he wants (long term security), its a HUGE mistake. Mainly because, when he decides he wants to mail it in (which he does at points in EVERY season), it will last longer and divide your team.
There are more hitters on the market than Manny and Tex. Too many of you focus on these two players and nobody else.
The Yankees don’t need either guy to win. They need, at some point, to add another bat. That could be in ST, July, or January.
Their season doesn’t depend on getting Manny or Tex. It depended on upgrading (dramatically) their starting rotation. They have done just that with one more move to still to be made.
-Olney says the Orioles offer to Tex isn’t enough to get it done without a hometown discount.-
That’s why the Nationals are the frontrunner.
Olney says the number of teams still in the Teixeira Sweepstakes is down to four. Angels, Red Sox, Nationals and Yankees. The Orioles dropped out because they refused to up their offer.
per ESPN crawler…so take it as you wish.
“The Yankees have a ton of young relief pitchers.”
Nothing more volatile than middle relief. Fact is, of all the Yankees relievers, the number of guys you can truly count on numbers ONE. And he ain’t young.
Manny Rameriez is the best RH hitter I’ve ever seen….I didn’t Joe D. but I did see all the great hitters from Frank Robinson on….I am excluding Mantle….
I didn’t SEE Joe D…
“they should of traded damon,matsui,cano.kemp in cf.
payroll down to 111.5 million with kemp in cf.”
For the 46th time, your notion that Damon and Matsui can be traded without eating significant portions of that $26M is rooted in something miles from reality.
I am jumping in here after just reading a few posts so I may be taking stuff out of context, but it appears someone suggested that a secure Manny will erase the Manny being Manny tendency – that’s my paraphrase.
*THAT’S PURE BUNK!*
Now that I’ve gotten your attention, I will tell you why. I don’t think the Yankees will touch Manny with a ten-foot pole, but in case they do, at least really know the entire package you will be getting.
*Manny being Manny is a way of life*:
Here is some documentable fact. When the Boston team traded for Manny, they traded for a right fielder. When Manny arrived in Boston he decided he didn’t want to play right field and told the organization as much. Manny was put in right field during spring training, at which point he pulled a hammy and took himself out of a game. He limped into the dugout and said he couldn’t play and was later seen walking around the dugout without any discernible limp. Manny eventually was shifted to left field, where he played out his career.
Manny has the potential to be a lazy, self-serving jerk who when he does not get his way invents injuries. Manny also has decided he needs days out of games every so often – something that is pretty unheard of when someone is signed to play a season. But we all know that Manny has been given that latitude.
He is probably one of the best right-handed hitters in the game of baseball. Barry Bonds wasn’t bad either.
Just please don’t glorify the guy or try to pretend those character traits don’t exist. If you want to say that despite all of those things you still want Manny, then say it. But stop making excuses built on a house of cards that falls apart as soon as you put it on the table.
SJ44:
I know there are more hitters on the market just not the caliber of Manny..
Fredo,
Manny has been better, for longer, than both those guys. Pujols may come close to matching Manny.
Arod? Until he raises his game in the post-season, he’s not as good a pure hitter as Manny.
If Pujols can stay healthy, he can match Manny though.
Bru,
You are living in a dreamworld. Matsui has no trade market. None.
Damon? You trade him, you have no leadoff hitter. They aren’t making Brett Gardner the leadoff hitter on the team.
This team, as presently constructed, doesn’t need Matt Kemp.
Matt Kemp is the OF version of Robinson Cano. Very gifted, yet very inconsistent.
The Yankees are better off trying to “fix” Cano, than trying to “fix” another player from another team.
“Nothing more volatile than middle relief. Fact is, of all the Yankees relievers, the number of guys you can truly count on numbers ONE. And he ain’t young.”
I completely agree. That’s why I would never give a middle relief pitcher when you can: 1, pick up his 1 year option; 2, offer him arbitration that he accepts for a 1 year deal; or 3, offer him arbitration that gets you 2 top picks.
“Their season doesn’t depend on getting Manny or Tex. It depended on upgrading (dramatically) their starting rotation. They have done just that with one more move to still to be made.”
Absolutely and unequivocally correct. And that is the very reason that the Yankees have made the moves they have to this point. Fans salivating for a bat doesn’t change the reality of the team priorities.
Listen, I don’t want Manny. But comparing him as a hitter to Alex Rodriguez is just insulting.
One is one of the greatest clutch hitters of all time, while the other is a stats compiling overrated stiff.
interesting entry, by Joel Sherman. His opinion/belief on the Manny subject. Although, i expect if Manny did play in the field, it would be in RF (not LF)
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports.....y_and.html
trisha – CC and AJ and Sheets – OH MY!”:
I cannot dispute your facts, I still think we should get him..IMO…I never said he should be a role model..
Nearly everyone seems to assume the Yanks aren’t interested in landing Teixera simply because that’s what they’re saying. Is it possible this is all just a ploy to keep from busting the bank over him?
Why WOULDN’T the NYY be willing to offer Tex a contract similar to what the other teams are offering (say 8/$176mm)? The Yankees have more money to begin with, and Tex is seemingly more valuable to the Yanks than he would be to Boston, at least (because he’s a defensive upgrade, he adds pop to a lineup that needs it, and because it would deprive Boston of getting Teixera).
The main argument against believing the NYY really ARE in the hunt for Teixera is that this would mean they haven’t been entirely honest in announcing their intentions. But so what? Wouldn’t the accomplishment of signing all three of the top FAs available this offseason be worth a bit of grumbling by the press?
It may sound crazy, but I honestly wonder if the talk about the NYY wanting Manny is just a diversion to swoop in on Tex with an offer comparable to what the other teams are putting out. Perhaps they think, all things being equal, Tex would sign with the Yankees over Boston or LAAA. So they’re working to set up that situation: Get all the other teams to put their offers on the table not worrying about the Yankees, then just come in and match it and see what happens.
“Listen, I don’t want Manny. But comparing him as a hitter to Alex Rodriguez is just insulting.
One is one of the greatest clutch hitters of all time, while the other is a stats compiling overrated stiff”
completely agree.
*give a middle relief pitcher a 3 year deal
Trisha,
All some of us are saying is, when Manny wants to play (ie: playing for his next contract), he’s a beast. When he’s secure, he’s “Manny being Manny”.
Nobody is making him out to be a pillar of sporting society. Fact is, even the Dynasty Yankees had their shares of drunks, jerks and creeps on the team.
Teams tend to overlook such character traits if the players in question produce and the team wins. When you don’t, the light is shone brigher on those issues.
trisha – CC and AJ and Sheets – OH MY!”:
Make no mistake about the Yankee Brass not knowing they need a bat..
Trading Damon to make room is like robbing Peter to pay Paul. You lose a super-productive leadoff hitter and clubhouse leader to pick up a guy who can be a productive middle of the order hitter and possible clubhouse leader.
SJ44:
Thanks that about sums it up..
“One is one of the greatest clutch hitters of all time, while the other is a stats compiling overrated stiff.”
Look I’m not going to say anything against Manny because he’s just that great but did you just Arod an overrated stiff ?
I know we still may need 1 more pitcher, any news on the Andy front…
did you just call Arod an overrated stiff ?*
“Olney says the Orioles offer to Tex isn’t enough to get it done without a hometown discount”
but Karl Ravech just said yesterday the Orioles were the favorite, for landing Tex
lol.
Here’s another perspective and something to at least think about. If the Yankees have the money to do it and are not jumping to add Teixeira (if that ends up being the case) then perhaps you have to look at the possibility that they do not think the value added factor is high enough – or necessary enough – to justify the expenditure.
I know I think that way. I know some others here also think that way. Would he make the Yankees a better team? Sure. But perhaps so would someone else who would cost a heck of a lot less. The question that needs to be asked is whether Teixeira is NECESSARY to the ultimate success of the Yankees. I and SJ and some others here apparently feel that the answer to that is “no”.
So you cannot just look at this as a payroll issue! If the Yankee organization does not believe that the expenditure is necessary to reach a certain outcome, they will pass on it.
I can’t know if that is what they are thinking, but if they don’t end up being in hot pursuit or the team that ends up with Teixeira, despite having the money to do it, then you can only reach the conclusion that they don’t feel he is necessary for their success, though he might be an attractive addition.
Sherman is another guy who still hasn’t gotten the memo on David DeJesus. He can’t play CF.
In fact, he’s an awful defensive CF. That’s why Trey Hillman moved him to LF.
You don’t upgrade your defense in CF by acquiring David DeJesus. He’s an upgrade offensively to both Cabrera and Gardner. Defensively, he’s not as good as either player.
One thing I do agree with him re: Manny. If they get him, it will be to DH.
Cashman has spent too much of the off-season looking to upgrade pitching AND defense. He’s not throwing that all out the window to get Manny and put him in the OF.
If they do get him (which I believe is still a longshot) its to DH, not play in the OF.
That would require trading Matsui. It also makes the Yankees a decidedly RH hitting team. Not necessarily a good thing.
One move always impacts other situations on your team. Something many fans forget when it comes to acquiring players.
“The Orioles have stood by their initial offer and have not upgraded it, and *sources say that the other teams involved in the bidding — the Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Angels and Washington Nationals* — have gone beyond Baltimore’s proposal for the slugging first baseman.”
Yeh still didn’t see our name here.
“Fans salivating for a bat doesn’t change the reality of the team priorities.”
Noticing that last year the Yankees went 19-49 when they scored 3 runs or less. They clearly have a less talented offense going into 09 than they did last year. Matsui and Posada are at least as likely to get injured this year as they were last year. There’s more of a possibility of Cano having a bad year than there was going into last season.
“Matsui and Posada are at least as likely to get injured this year as they were last year. ”
That’s not true.
Fredo Corleone
i don’t buy that at all.
you have too like our bullpen situation compared to a year or two ago when we looked to be in trouble.
our bullpen is nice with albaladejo & melancon coming,trust.
the key is bruney.
PAT M.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Manny Rameriez is the best RH hitter I’ve ever seen….I didn’t Joe D. but I did see all the great hitters from Frank Robinson on….I am excluding Mantle….
————————————————————
One this, we disagree. As far as right handed hitters go, Aaron and Mays were absolutely deadly. Not sure how high an average hitter Clemente would have had had he gone for more homers, but, when he wanted to, he could hit them. A right handed Rod Carew with power.
Bru,
for the millionth time, Cano isn’t traded!!!! get it through your head!!!
The silence in Yankeeland, coupled with the the strange “Cameron situation” suggests something unexpected may be in development. What that may be is your guess as good as mine. Granted though, it is only a guess whether it comes from any of us or one of the esteemed members of the New York media.
trisha – CC and AJ and Sheets – OH MY!”:
I agree with this assessment, heck i guess that’s why I’m a blogger..I would love to have the pitchers we got, Tex and Manny…I guess I would get fired pretty quick…:)
i do believe that damon & matsui will have extra motivation because there contracts are up even though damon may retire.
Hey Trisha,
Agree with you about Texiera. I don’t think that the Yanks feel they want a commitment to a 1st baseman for 8 or 10 years with the possibility that they will have to move Posada or even Jeter there within the next year or two.
I can see them going after Manny for a 2 year deal knowing full well with what they may have to put up with. With CC only guaranteed for the next 3 years the window to win is within these upcoming seasons.
Frank Thomas and Mike Piazza in their primes were pretty good too.
“Look I’m not going to say anything against Manny because he’s just that great but did you just call Arod an overrated stiff ?”
A-Rod is a lot of things, but overrated isn’t one of them. Look at the guys stats throughout his career. His consistency can’t be matched by many. Isn’t he like 35HR/100+ RBIs for 12 years straight? That’s not easy to do. He doesn’t have the postseason success that people drool over, but I believe that will come eventually. A-Rod is also someone that has never been accused of dogging it. Can we say that about MopHead? Yeah, I didn’t think so.
““Matsui and Posada are at least as likely to get injured this year as they were last year. ”
That’s not true.”
How do you figure?
Cashman has admitted that he still does not know if Posada will be able to catch this season and he has just recently started his throwing program.
Matsui now has 2 surgically repaired knees instead of 1.
I think Pete may have headed back to Vegas…..
“Yeh still didn’t see our name here.”
but, just because t hey’re being outbid by other teams also doesnt mean an offer isnt on the table.
not saying there is one, just saying, we cant pretend to know all of whats going on here with Tex.