Blog poll: Do you want Manny?
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- December
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One of our readers, Ninja Burglar, had an excellent idea. Do a blog poll on Manny Ramirez.
(Nice name, by the way, Ninja.)
Nice and simple, yes or no? Do you want Manny or not. Vote over to the right.
UPDATE, 5:11 p.m.: I need to stop listening to WFAN, I really do. Just heard that the Yankees need Manny because he will take all the pressure off A-Rod.
Right. A-Rod had one of the most ridiculous offensive seasons in the history of baseball in 2007. You know who hit behind him on most days? Hideki Matsui with a bad knee.
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on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 5:04 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
BAM – first, no thank you – i agree with your points Pete
Peter, you have convinced me that I do not want Manny. There are times when I wake up in the middle of the night, just having dreamed that Manny (in the Yankees uniform) hit a Grand Slam of Josh Beckett. But the rational side of me agrees that Manny is more trouble than he is worth.
NO. If he’s motivated, yes. He’s the best hitter in baseball, when he wants to be. But it can’t be guaranteed that he’ll play hard or hustle or even hit to the best of his abilities. Sign Teixeira.
Yes because the thought of having Matsui and Posada as the 3 and 5 guys is giving me nightmares.
Manny hitting a grand slam off of Beckett at Fenway would be the single greatest thing to ever happen.
I think we need a poll option “It’s all A-Rod’s fault”. Afterall, idn’t one of the “pro-Manny” arguments that we need a bat to supplement A-Rod? So therefore, it’s all A-Rod’s fault.
I voted ‘no’. Out with the old, in with the new.
Manny quit on his team last year.
That’s all you need to know.
I’d rather go 0-162 with a team of hard working/team oriented players than go 162-0 with guys like Manny.
It would be no fun watching Manny loaf on a double play in mid-June.
NO!
Do I want one of the greatest hitters in baseball history? Yes.
Do I want the head-case personalitly he has? No. But you know what, I could deal with it.
Any Yankee fan who want’s Manny isn’t thinking clearly.All would be great until Manny being Manny starts (2nd week of ST)… NO way.
As Yankee fans, we have been making fun of him for years for Manny being Manny… and we have ripped the Sox fans for making excuses for him… Now there are Yankee fans who want him… I call them band wagon riders.
Once again: No!
there more important things in life than hRs and RBI
Too much baggage with him.
Would love his bat if it weren’t for all that came with it. But then if he wasn’t a POS he wouldn’t even be available now anyway.
i am torn..we need another big bat in the lineup..i dont know about everyone else but im not to optimistic about posada’s return..who knows what we’re going to get. I am going to say get Manny, the yankees organization doesn’t play games and i think will put him in line. If he truly always wanted to play for the yankees then he will just do his job. And as much as i love the polls on this site it always seems like the opposite actually happens…( example..aj burnett got signed..most people were opposed)
I’ve hated Manny since the Pedro/Zimmer incident… let Manny stew in his one offer from LA.
No.
Yes. The Yanks need another bat. Whether it’s Manny, or Tex or Dunn or some other slugger, they need someone for the heart of the order.
Pete,
Can we pretend we’re in Chicago and vote more than once? LOL
Re.: Update. I guess I should be glad I’m no longer in the NYC media market-It sounds like WFAN’s spew is reaching critical mass level.
No, he`ll be 37 on Opening Day, wants a 5 year deal, and will get over 20 million a year.
That’s the way I look at it Bob (the original).
From a offensive perspective, you do get excited about what he could bring.
But, you don’t do Manny in a vacuum. You have to take EVERYTHING that comes with him, and a LOT comes with him.
Because of that, you pass. Its just too much to deal with and he’s not changing at this point in his career.
People can’t expect the Yankees to sign everyone and still have roster flexibility.
Everyone wants Tex this year, Holliday next year. That would give us 2 more longterm contracts: Tex (8 years), Holliday (6-7 years?), Arod (9 more years), Cano (6 years) , Posada (3 years), Jeter (2 year), Swisher (4 years), CC (7 more years), AJ (5 years). I think I am wrong on some of the years there but it is basically what they all have left.
You can’t have both worlds – all the top players and roster flexibility. You have to have a colective balance.
Pete you are just realizing now you need to stop listening to WFAN.Most days if you are any kind of knowledgable fan of any sport WFAN is not the place to listen
i say no, with one caveat.
the only way i’d do it is if no other big market team offers him anything. it might actually work out that way, boston is out for obvious reasons. if furcal signs with the dodgers, they are out. if the angels sign tex, they’re out. then and only then, a one year deal for say… $22 million. that way he has something to chase.
Pete, while Matsui may have been hitting behind him, Abreu was hitting ahead of him. Who is going to be the number 3 hitter now? Xavier Nady? Matsui? Posada? They’re all huge question marks. This team doesn’t have a legitimate number 3 hitter.
Rosenthal reported that Furcal has signed a contract with the Doders, today. He’ll make a decision tomorrow as to which team he’ll sign with on Friday.
Agreed on ARod, Pete. Monster 2007 MVP, and lead AL in VORP in 2008. The days of pressure in the regular season are behind him.
$25M for the extra win or two Manny would provide is absurd.
“Manny hitting a grand slam off of Beckett at Fenway would be the single greatest thing to ever happen.”
It would be hard to top Bobby Abreu’s August 2006 performance in the 5 game Boston Massacre sweep. All it got him was kicked out of town 2 years later.
My vote on Manny, by the way, is an emphatic No!!
agree Dan…the number 3 and 5 spot scare me as does the avg age of 35 for the starting lineup….
Pitching wasn’t the only problem last year….That was the worst Yankee offense that I have seen in 13 plus years
I’m in on Manny, only if he falls into our laps on a one year deal. Need to keep the carrot in front of Manny, the quitter!
Looks like Furcal has chosen the Dodgers . If I am the Braves I am beyond angry at this point
I would rather sign Baldelli to a two year deal or trade Nady to the Cardinals for Ankiel
UPDATE, 5:11 p.m.: I need to stop listening to WFAN, I really do. Just heard that the Yankees need Manny because he will take all the pressure off A-Rod.
———————————————————–
Those clowns just want Manny in NY so they can have more material to spew nonsensically about.
i would think they could bring back Abreu for less money and you know what you are going to get with him…or even someone like Adam Dunn (not to say those guys are as talented as Manny on a good day).
i do think the 3 spot in the order will be a tricky one to figure out with the current roster.
Dan,
“while Matsui may have been hitting behind him, Abreu was hitting ahead of him. Who is going to be the number 3 hitter now? Xavier Nady? Matsui? Posada? They’re all huge question marks. This team doesn’t have a legitimate number 3 hitter.”
Bingo!
Pete, you didn’t give me credit for giving you the website poll idea a full hour ahead of Ninja Burglar. Nobody cares about me
it is simple:
NO to Manny
YES to Baldelli
Hmmm …. let me see … I need to think about this one real hard-like for a little bit.
Can I put my head up my own butt all the way to my shoulders? Ahhhh …. mmmpffff …. uh, no I can’t.
Do I have at least one functioning brain cell? Well, I beat a monkey at tic-tac-toe … two out of three!
Then I guess I’m intelligent enough and therefore qualified to vote ‘NO’ on Manny.
And no, I didn’t try that thing with my head first to see.
gayle
December 17th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Looks like Furcal has chosen the Dodgers . If I am the Braves I am beyond angry at this point
————————————————————
Furcal is going to sign another contract wth the Braves on Friday.
“It would be hard to top Bobby Abreu’s August 2006 performance in the 5 game Boston Massacre sweep. All it got him was kicked out of town 2 years later.”
I’ve been doing denial on the fact that Bobby hasn’t been given any offer from the Yanks. I really wanted him back.
Oh well.
Wanna know the power of this blog?
Pete asks a question and within 15 minutes there are over 360 responses. Amazing stuff.
Kudos again Pete on the job you’ve done here.
“Rosenthal reported that Furcal has signed a contract with the Doders, today. He’ll make a decision tomorrow as to which team he’ll sign with on Friday.”
GB- Great post!!
Being a Georgia boy, are you upset that the Braves didn’t get him? Probably the slightest hint of him moving over to 2nd base, made him think twice about their offer.
Yeah Pete and then A-Rod had another “stellar” playoff performance.
Pete – you seem to have a working brain cell or two. Unless you’re listening to Francesa for a good laugh, why are you listening to him?
Bret-
After all your lengthy posts on why the Yanks should sign Manny, you vote no?
Pete:
please conduct a poll for Baldelli
only way I would take Manny would be on a 2 year deal…the Yanks need a CF, another SP and a VG utility player
Pete, could you open a poll about signing Tex too?
Buddy,
He’s no longer my top choice but I wouldn’t mind if they pulled the trigger. I prefer dealing for Kemp to upgrade CF in 2009 and signing Orlando Hudson at 2b. In 2010, I would want to call up Austin Jackson for CF and move Kemp to LF. My new man-crush is Prince Fielder for DH/1b. I like him better than Manny because he’s younger, cheaper, less controversial and a lefty in YS.
Vinny B & Andy P … good idea. As long as the contract terms are good for both sides, I vote yes on Rocco already.
Re: Abreu, it looks like Cashman evaluated his market correctly.
If he offered Bobby arbitration, and he took it (which many believed he would) he would be getting 18 million this year.
He’s not going to sign for anything close to that since the corner OF market has fallen apart.
Cashman caught a lot of grief for not offering him arbitration. In the end, his belief that the corner OF market would crash turned out to be correct.
If Manny wins the vote I want to be the first one to throw a shoe at him LOL
ok, what sense does that make…
youve got fans advocating for the hottest flavor of the month, a guy who was a good prospect but hasnt played a full season since like 2003 and really didnt do anything extraordinary even when he was on the field because his body is one broken down mess… now all of a sudden, after years of dealing with some rare mitochondrial disorder, they’ve had a Dr. House-type medical miracle and he’ll be ready to go for 2009.
and on the other hand, youve got a proven MVP-type bat who comes with a lot of mental baggage, but also a lot of big time HRs and RBIs on his resume, and is a genious when it comes to hitting a baseball…. yet he’s blacklisted because he’s dopey, and wanted out of Boston.
this is crazy.
If Jeter wasn’t the King of the DP, he could bat 3rd. He did it a couple of times before with good results I believe.
No.
Buddy,
Prince Fielder for 2010, not 2009. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that. Kemp over Melky/Gardner would be my final upgrade of the 2008 offseason.
How to stay sane during the off-season:
1) Never listen to the FAN.
2) Never listen to 1050.
3) Never read any comments sections on any Yankee fan sites.
4) Especially this one
SJ44,
Youre absolutly right about the market for Abreu. But it still leaves a hole in the lineup that needs to be addressed if the Yanks are going to get the results they want after all the pitching they’ve acquired.
Yes
Yankee Trader
December 17th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
“Rosenthal reported that Furcal has signed a contract with the Doders, today. He’ll make a decision tomorrow as to which team he’ll sign with on Friday.”
GB- Great post!!
Being a Georgia boy, are you upset that the Braves didn’t get him? Probably the slightest hint of him moving over to 2nd base, made him think twice about their offer.
————————————————————
Not really, Trader. I don’t care about the Braves, but, I do pay attention to what they’re doing. It does kind of screw up their plans, though. The plan was to install Furcal at 2nd base and move 2nd baseman Kelly Johnson to left field. They have a fine young shortstop (makes Furcal look like a dog in the field). Yunel Escobar is a good hitting, good fielding young player…has some power, doesn’t strike out has some speed and will learn to steal a few bases.
What I said was that Damon, Swisher, or Nady could get a chance in CF and if they couldn’t cut it then Nady could be traded or benched for Melky or Gardner. I don’t know why so many people are jumping on this idea.
Last year Swisher wasn’t good in CF, but from the defensive numbers I’ve found, he was almost as good as Granderson and better than Rick Ankiel and David Dejesus. There have been a lot of people on here looking to have either of those guys start in CF next year. Where’s the beef?
One year 45 million dollars
Turn Two – If Baldelli was in a wheelchair he could play the OF as good as Manny. And if it was an electric wheelchair he’d have the advantage on artificial turf.
“yet he’s blacklisted because he’s dopey, and wanted out of Boston.”
I’m not on the “let’s get Baldelli” bandwagon, but to try and act like these are the only things wrong with Manny is a farce.
Please sign me so I can play hard against only the Red Sox. They treated me so terribly – I mean who can live off only $20 million? I’ll play hard against them and not show up against tough righties. Plus, I won’t run out double plays since I’d probably be out anyway. And fly balls? Better hope your center fielder has range. I’ll take 4 years, $200 million.
No. I could just never root for him.
“If Baldelli was in a wheelchair he could play the OF as good as Manny.”
but Manny doesnt have to ever step foot on the field defensively.
I voted yes. All of you may hate Manny now but wait til you see him in the outfield with a 99 on his back a waterbottle sticking out of his back pocket. You’ll love it. Trust me.
“I need to stop listening to WFAN, I really do. Just heard that the Yankees need Manny because he will take all the pressure off A-Rod.
Right. A-Rod had one of the most ridiculous offensive seasons in the history of baseball in 2007. You know who hit behind him on most days? Hideki Matsui with a bad knee.”
Awesome 07!! Yes!! What about last year Pete? Or 06? Why are you choosing this one year out of his entire career? Are you actually going to suggest that the players batting around the clean up guy have no effect on his numbers because of one season?
SAY NO TO MANNY!
Selfish, self-centered, baggage-filled, aging DH, history of assaulting an elderly traveling secretary, total head case.
With Manny on the team, I think he would bring much more negatives than positives. He is not going to change at this point in his career.
I thought the Braves plan was to sign Furcal to bat leadoff and play shortstop so they could move Yunel Escobar in a package for a starter? Isn’t that Prado kid part of their plan at 2b? I guess they can shift Kelly Johnson to LF regardless.
TurnTwo,
In your description of Manny you left out that he cheated his way off his last team. That’s not a small infraction. That’s as bad as it gets for a professional athlete.
One of the local Boston tv channels is planning on airing a special about Manny and the Red Sox. His antics were not just limited to 2008. His deportment has gotten progressively worse since 2005.
Yes … Baldelli has virtually nothing to do with Manny. If Manny was the last available OF in baseball, I’d rather hold tryouts for anyone in the stadium before each game.
Baldelli’s a different risk … thinking of it independent of MAnny.
Hey Peter Abraham…there is something wrong. I can only vote once.
What kind of un-American vote is this?
“You’ll love it. Trust me.”
No, we won’t.
I want to vote more than once.
What do I do?
Ray
December 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Peter, you have convinced me that I do not want Manny. There are times when I wake up in the middle of the night, just having dreamed that Manny (in the Yankees uniform) hit a Grand Slam of Josh Beckett. But the rational side of me agrees that Manny is more trouble than he is worth
————————————————————
wow.i had a dream that joba beaned manny in the ear.
one response should for the poll should be ‘no, but i’d be ecstatic and pretend like i wanted him the whole time if we do, ie aj burnett’. you’d def at have at least one vote for that one (from me).
Turn Two –
On a gap shot to the warning track, Baldelli in a wheelchair beats Manny to second base.
How? Baldelli leaves the batter’s box when the ball is hit. Manny leaves the batter’s box when the ball lands.
Yes, I gave cash some credit for getting CC here – no doubt he did some recruiting in the process. But you missed the main crux of my argument which was the reliance on aj over five years and his willingness to allow aj to determine is fate and possibly his legacy in NY. That is a lot to ask of a player with AJ’s lets say questionable history and character.
I also talk for much of the post about signing cameron and pettitte over tex – for the same amount of money next year and the lack of a better option for right field in the free agent market in 2010. Tex is nine years and the two above is only one but tex lowers the age of the team, improves defense, atheleticism, lineup, balance, power, obp, pitches/PA, depth of bench and various other tangible and intangible measurements. Pettitte and cameron can be easily replaced in house by far cheaper and likely just as decent options. 20 million IMO is far far too much for 1 year of an aging center fielder with some defensive prowess and a little power and a fourth or fifth starter. Tex represents an upgrade in almost every category for the same price in 2009. He is 28 making him 36 by the deals conclusion still fully capable of playing solid ball. All tex’s indications of success have been gradually improving every single season despite his fluctuation among teams, leagues and opposing pitchers. His K total is decreasing while his walks have risen drastically. His OPS+ has risen from 102 to 131 to 151 within 5 years. He has had 4 seasons with more than 300 total bases and hit at least 30 homers every season since his second. Despite slight decreases in homeruns, his doubles have improved to over 40 per season so his slg remains constant. He likely would have won three or four gold gloves had he stayed in one league the last two seasons. Then, of course there is his post season performance with the angels last season- 467 avg 550 obp in 15 at bats. Small sample size but he clearly was not intimidated in his playoff debut.
“I want to vote more than once.
What do I do?”
Vote early and Vote often.
No. I would give away my season tickets should Manny come to the Bronx.
wfan had a poll.i don’t know if they were first but pete said he was listening to wfan.
Dunn over Manny all day for me.
However, I could play devil’s advocate on each of the points Pete made in his last blog. (except for the one about Manny and Girardi being like oil and water). I’d rather sign Manny than do nothing, but Dunn is my preference by far.
“but to try and act like these are the only things wrong with Manny is a farce.”
its not a farce… thats Manny broken down into his purest form.
he’s done a lot of dopey things. he’s been a headcase.
but his motivation, especially towards the later years in Boston, was to get out for whatever reason. he wanted to get out of Boston, and he wanted to get paid, so he loafed around a bit, pretended to be hurt. did what he felt he needed to do to force the Saux’s hand. he got what he wished for.
if you simply things for him, basically pay him his cash and give him a bat, he’ll perform.
this happens all the time in the NFL… player A wants a new contract or wants a trade. the team resists at first, and then realizes its not worth the turmoil.
so they cut him, trade him, whatever… player goes on, gets a new contract with a lot of money up front, gets paid.
noone cares… why? because now that player got what he wanted, and now he knows he’s back to the realization that he is a professional athlete who is determined to be one of the greatest who played the game, and wants to win championships.
Manny will perform… he’s already said he’s got the goal of hitting 700 HRs before he even thinks about retiring… yeah, thats got unmotivated written all over it.
Wouldnt it be great if Francessa were to read the results of this poll on the air?
“No. I would give away my season tickets should Manny come to the Bronx.”
I’ll take them!
Bru – Hey you gave me an idea!
Let’s offer Manny a pro-rated contract to play only against Boston. Dude would finish the season batting .764 if he didn’t forsy drown in all the beers they’d throw at him in Fenway.
“if he didn’t FIRST drown … ”
damn typos …
No Manny!!,
Can you send them to my PO Box?
pETE
Matsui hit 285 obp 367 with 25 homers in 547 at bats in 2007. You make him sound like a limping puppy who lost his way home. hE was certainly no slouch at the plate despite the bad knees.
You should make a blog poll:
WHO in their right mind other than cashman think that both posada and matsui will stay healthy next season while swisher and cano do a complete 180 and nady at least hits to career averages?
i know cash is thinking optimistically but at some point you have to let common sense in the door – there is no way in the world that will happen. i need to break out my stats book and try to do a risk analysis of the chance that this occurs – with posada coming off major surgery and matsui’s knees a mess id be amazed if either of them has at least 500 plate appearances next season.
Also, needs more “do you want Adam Dunn” poll.
francessa was off today on wfan.
The children that want Manny are playing fantasy baseball. They are not mature enough to know that defense is important. Real baseball players need to be able to use a glove. Manny sucks defensively not to mention he’s a flake. Cashman will never try for him or a DH type that’s even worse like Adam Dunn. Go get Manny in your fantasy league and be happy.
I see the poll is almost 2-1 against Manny.
I’m surprised so many people want him to play here.
No…I don’t want him.
Only because i’m bright & intelligent
“If he offered Bobby arbitration, and he took it (which many believed he would) he would be getting 18 million this year.
He’s not going to sign for anything close to that since the corner OF market has fallen apart.
Cashman caught a lot of grief for not offering him arbitration. In the end, his belief that the corner OF market would crash turned out to be correct.”
SJ44-
I don’t think you can support your statement yet.
Arbitration hearings go from February 1st through February 21st this year.
By that time, most of the corner outfield free agents will have signed and there will be plenty of comps for arbitration.
If the corner OF market has fallen apart, it will be right there for the arbitrator to see. In that case, I don’t see why Abreu would get $18MM.
IMO, the only good reason for not offering Abreu arbitration is that the Yanks did not want him at any price. Maybe that was the case, I have no way of knowing.
“if you simply things for him, basically pay him his cash and give him a bat, he’ll perform.”
Not nearly as simple as that. Not even close.
Manny wants a 4 year $100M deal – that’s the money he wants. He’s not looking for 1-2 years at $20M.
If he wanted that he could have just stayed in boston – they would have picked up his option if he’d hit like he did in LA.
But Manny’s not going to get paid what he’s looking for.
And that’s probably not going to make him very happy.
No one is going to pay Manny the way he has been expecting to get paid for the past many months.
And the team that signs him is going to have to deal with that fact the additional uncertainty it creates.
Pete,
There’s been a discussion going on over at RAB about whether the Yanks have room in the payroll for Tex if they pass on signing a fifth starter and on the Cameron trade. A related discussion involves the possibility for a trade such a move would open up since Swisher would have to move to the outfield (presumably the team would then look to sell high on Nady, or see if they could deal either Damon or Matsui for good value while eating most of the money owed to them). Such a move would upgrade the offense, the defense, make the team younger, and not quite possibly wouldn’t increase payroll over what it would be if they sign a 5th starter and trade for Cameron. What are your thoughts?
Yikes, seriously why does anyone want this clubhouse disaster called Man-Ram?
I would rather pay the already retired Luis Sojo the same money.
The Yankees need starting pitching (almost there) and chemistry.
An experienced successful player like Ramirez should be teaching the value of hustle to the young players, not filling the role of the older experienced slacker.
The Yankees need him less than they need a $16 hot dog in their new stadium.
If I have learned anything from reading this blog is that Peter is usually right.
Especially in this case he is.
“I see the poll is almost 2-1 against Manny.
I’m surprised so many people want him to play here.”
700+ votes and less than 100 comments.
Gee, I wonder if people are clearing their cookies and voting again?
My bad if this has already been discussed, but doesn’t the Dodgers’ signing of Furcal (assuming he has REALLY made up his mind this time) effectively take them out of the running for Manny? They can’t afford both even with the money saved on Lowe, can they?
I know you’re friends with a lot of the WFAN guys but switch over to 1050. It’s a lot more Yankee “focused”.
The Braves got screwed by Furcal, resigning with the Dodgers instead.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ver-Braves
now **some** people can **shut up** about signing Furcal to play 2b.
I voted no on the condition that our offensive upgrade does not stop with Swisher Cameron (ewww). I know that Jorge and Hideki were out for most of the year, but after a year of sleeping offense, I just don’t trust our bats anymore especially with Giambi and Abreu leaving. Their production gotta come from somewhere.
No Manny. Yes Tex (or at least stop him from going to Boston, PLEASE! Pedroia-Youkillis-Ortiz-Tex will make me throw up)
No Cameron. Yes Baldelli
Yes Andy
The poll results are interesting so far. You’d get the impression from reading the comments here most days, that the majority were revising history and welcoming Manny, and all his faults, with open arms.
“Wah, wah, wah, Here’s why we need Manny” seems to be an all too common post here.
However, the results so far show that most people are against it. (the more sane ones presumably) Thus, it’s been the minority who are going on and on and on and on about it.
Perhaps… Manny’s few fans here will realize that they are not in the majority… and perhaps take this golden opportunity to shut up about him.
Yes, I know that is an unlikely scenario, but I can only hope.
I assume the Manny fans are the same ones who were posting on and on and on about Bonds last year too.
Instant gratification is overrated folks.
If Baldelli really was misdiagnosed (and I haven’t followed that story closely but it appears to be fact at this point that he was) then I’d MUCH rather have him than Cameron. It isn’t even close.
Add Baldelli and Dunn and no one can step to this team.
TurnTwo,
You’ve hit the nail on head.In other words,all Manny cares about is money. Respect is money to Manny.Manny is happy as long as Manny feels respected,meaning paid.
But as soon as he thinks he’s not going to get paid what he feels he’s worth, it’s ok for him to fake injuries, take an at bat and purposely not attempt to swing, have to be talked into taking a team plane to Seattle by his teamates and push a 67 year old man because that old man had the nerve to not make Manny happy.After all,Manny is the center of his universe and everyone else is lucky to be a small part of it.
Hank will get whats HANK wants ..lol Manny in nyc 09
My first comment in this post said I’d rather sign Manny than do nothing…let me amend this to also say there are a lot of other solutions that come after Dunn but before Manny in terms of desirability.
The risk is just so great. I’d almost rather have Abreu back than Manny, depending on what kind of deal he would command.
BBB
December 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
My bad if this has already been discussed, but doesn’t the Dodgers’ signing of Furcal (assuming he has REALLY made up his mind this time) effectively take them out of the running for Manny? They can’t afford both even with the money saved on Lowe, can they?
————————————————————
Quite possible, BBB. The Doggers still need to find some cheap starting pitchers….at least two.
I’d like the see the Yankees sign Giambi and have a 5 man rotation of Giambi, Swisher, Damon, Matsui and Gardner.
1B: Giambi
LF: Damon
CF: Swisher
DH: Matsui
1B: Giambi
LF: Damon
CF: Gardner
DH: Matsui
1B: Swisher
LF: Damon
CF: Gardner
DH: Matsui
1B: Swisher
LF: Matsui
CF: Damon
DH: Giambi
1B: Giambi
LF: Swisher
CF: Damon
DH: Matsui
it is just a continuation of the mistakes the Yanks have made in the past. Do I think that Manny is done? No, I don’t. I actually think that, if Manny signed with the Yanks, he would probably have a huge year next year and would bat about .800 against the Red Sox, which would be fun to see. But, the man is 37. Unless he is made from the same stuff as the Terminator, his best years are behind him and, eventually, he is gonna pull up lame and it won’t be an act to get out of playing for a week. The Yanks, for the last 8 years, have made it a habit of paying guys for their best years while getting none. Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown spring to mind. Again, instead of taking the easy way out and throwing wads of cash at Manny, why not make a smart trade for a younger guy who is coming in to his own? I would rather get in on a guy like Rick Ankiel then pay in years and money for Manny, when you just KNOW he will be a liability before you can say “knee problem.” This isn’t Manny circa three or four years ago. This isn’t Manny with years left in his body. This is Manny at 37. Get younger, get better defensively, get more athletic.
Wave,
What free agent OF’s sign for this off-season doesn’t impact arbitration this year.
They go by his numbers of last year.
He would have put in a bid of 18 million. The Yankees would have gone much lower.
He would have prevailed, if for no other reason, than the Yankee offer would have been too low to win the case.
In an arbitration hearing, Bobby wouldn’t have lost, based on his numbers from the 2007 season.
That’s why Cashman didn’t offer him arbitration. He knew he had no chance to win the case because their offer would have been very low.
Even if Cash beat the odds and won, they would have lost because they would have ended up paying him more than the market bears right now.
No Manny… no title.
This offense is NOT good enough to hit enough against good pitching in October. There is a reason that Cameron and Swisher have awful postseason stats. Swisher was given away, Cameron is 36 and hit .230 last year.
We finally have a top notch pitching staff to go along with a great bullpen… and then we neg;ect the aging, inconsistant offense.
Manny and Bonds are two different issues. Don’t even try to compare them.
If I didn’t truly care about the Yankees, I’d say having Manny on the Yankees, bashing homers (while slowly admiring each one) against the Sox in Fenway would make for great bitter sweet entertainment.
I think some Yankee fans who want Manny so bad don’t care about the negative things he brings with him to the table.
Teixeira will not get a 10-year deal from Boston.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....position=0
If we happen to sign Manny, do we have to make a urinal in left field for him to go between innings?
Regarding the “he quit on his team” comments. What do we define as quitting?
Is quitting not going all out on a ball hit deep to right?
Is quitting not running all out on a ball that hits the fence and you end up staying at first?
Is quitting throwing a ball to first non shallaunt and it becomes an error?
Or not getting down enough on a ball and it goes under your glove?
Swinging at the first pitch after the pitcher has thrown 4 straight balls to the batter ahead of you?
My point is we can call alot of players quitters if we were looking at a specific thing. Did he fake an injury? Maybe. But all these examples that could also be construde as quitting.
With all that said, i say just go after Baldelli or Rivera if that fails.
Great advice pete, people need to stop listening to wfan. I did and my life is better for it.
Good thing Hal is the one making the decisions, not Hank. (Remember what Pete said yesterday, Hal is only the 1,456th most influential person in baseball
I know it’s well documented that Hal does like Manny, but it’s also well documented that Hal respects Cashman’s gangster on baseball matters, and we know Cash wants no part of Manny.
ADAM DUNN!!!
sorry I had something in my throat…
Anyway, I also read earlier (either here or MLBTR, can’t recall) that most of the rest of the FO besides Cash was in favor of a Manny signing….I wonder how Gene Michael feels about it? Personally, I’d trust his judgment over anyone else’s. Pete, any chance you can try to find out where he stands?
Absolutley
Cameron/Nady/Swisher/Gardner will not cut it.
I wonder if NYY will jump in with a 9 year, 22 mil a year deal and an OPT-OUT after 5 years?
I’d still sign Frucal to play 2B and trade Cabo for Matt Kemp
Not signing Tex is equivalent on passing on Beltran/Vlad
If it were the NBA, NYY could sign Ramirez to a series of 10 contracts.
i say we top the offer to furcal & sign him anyways.
then trade cano for kemp.
Why is that Mike Sciosia of the Angels wants Manny even AFTER talking to Francona?
And why was that story never mentioned by Pete?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ls-uniform
Manny or Tex
Need another big bat to be a LEGIT contender.
Tampa is NOT a blue print to win a championship. Hell, the only reason they got so far is because Boston was ravaged by injuries in the playoffs.
Here’s a legitimate question for the good people at Elias and those who keep clamoring for Manny.
If Manny becomes the left fielder – the Yanks probably have the worst defensive outfield in baseball and probably the worst defensive team.
When was the last time the worst defensive team in the league won the World Series – or made the postseason for that matter?
If you make Manny the everyday DH – what makes you think Manny would be happy doing that?
He’s always played the field and that’s the kind of crap the Yanks will have to deal with on a daily basis if they take the Manny plunge.
I don’t buy it.
Cashman hasn’t preached the “get younger, get better defensively” mantra just to turn around and sign Manny Ramirez and all the baggage that comes with him.
“Quite possible, BBB. The Doggers still need to find some cheap starting pitchers….at least two.”
GB7: I guess I’m worried about what that might mean for us with regard to Manny then. You think LAA will emerge as a serious suitor for him if they lose out on Teix?
Best case scenario in my book – Teix to Nats, Manny to LAA, Dunn to NYY. I am asking Santa for this!
ok, let’s play the what if game:
what if furcal really signed with the dodgers and they are out of the manny sweepstakes?
what is the angels decide that 10 years is ok for tex and give him a 10/220 deal?
what if the red sox decide that 4/64 is ok for lowe and sign him?
Where does Manny play next year?
Correction: ***a series of 10 day contracts***
“Tyler
December 17th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I’d like the see the Yankees sign Giambi and have a 5 man rotation of Giambi, Swisher, Damon, Matsui and Gardner.”
Replace Giambi with Dunn (at his current below market value) and I think we’ve got ourselves a winner.
Rocco Baldelli makes more sense than anyone for center. Guarentee him the centerfield job and he`ll come on cheap to.
Rocco Baldelli makes more sense than anyone for center. Guarentee him the centerfield job and he`ll come on cheap to.
I can’t vote. I hate Manny. But I recognize he’s a great hitter. I say sign the bum for 3 years. Maybe you squeeze 2 good years out of him. I can hold my nose that long. Then, buy out his third year. By that time you’ll be glad to pony up, and it would be cheaper than an 8 year deal for Tex. Just know going in that he’ll lay down in the third year, if not sooner. And, he cuts his hair or there’s no deal.
if no manny,then who?…this offense will not cut it-especially if they add strikeout machine cameron. and u thought betemit was bad!
E-Man: That’s interesting about Sciosia still being interested in Manny even after talking to Francona. Pete said in his last post that people who know baseball (e.g. Cash, Girardi) don’t want Manny. But certainly nobody could argue that Sciosia doesn’t know baseball.
Still, how do we know that nugget of info wasn’t planted by Boras? It’s been known to happen before.
Where is the choice for “Hell, No!”
Manny Manny Manny bo Banny, Bonana fanna fo Banny, Fee fy NO MANNY, Manny!!
Manny: plays when he feels like it. Tex: plays with his best.
Manny: 36, old. Tex: 28, young.
Manny: No defense. Tex: gold glove defense
Manny: Monster bat when he shows up (or none at all). Tex: Great bat.
Manny: 2~3 years. Tex: 8+ years.
Manny: DH, fills no position hole. Tex: Fills big hole at 1st.
Manny: If we don’t sign him, he goes to Dodgers. Tex: If we don’t sign him he goes to BoSux (!!!!)
Looking at it from every factor, the only reason to take Manny over Tex is because he would require less years? That’s silly. I’d rather sign another long term contract with Tex, who’s young, committed, and athletic.
Tex or nothing – it’s not even close.
BBB
December 17th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
“Quite possible, BBB. The Doggers still need to find some cheap starting pitchers….at least two.”
GB7: I guess I’m worried about what that might mean for us with regard to Manny then. You think LAA will emerge as a serious suitor for him if they lose out on Teix?
Best case scenario in my book – Teix to Nats, Manny to LAA, Dunn to NYY. I am asking Santa for this!
————————————————————
I would think that the Angels will go big on Ramirez until and if NYY starts raising the stakes. Maybe Steinbrenner can loan Washington about 20 mil and get Teixeira, Ramirez to the Angels.
uhh..r we really going to let manny and tex both go else where …reminds me of betran santana vlad..please sign one and please stop wit the adam dunn talk sure if cash dosent want manny why would he go after dunn so he can kkk 200 timess ..just saying …and cano is our second basemen get over it already ..kempp hahahaha
Everyone is putting all their eggs in the “what if everything goes perfectly?” basket. Anyone who watches baseball knows that we are going to have a big injury this year and then what? What if Posada is never the same what if Matsui can’t drive the ball on 2 reconstructed knees. I hope the Manny rumors are true, this team needs an insurance bat and since it can’t be Mark Teixeira it should be the best hitter of this generation.
“but Manny doesnt have to ever step foot on the field defensively.”
Yes, he does. You have Matsui-Damon-Manny all needing to play DH or LF. In that musical chairs contest which $13m employee doesn’t get a chair? The fascination with Manny is ridiculous at this point. He has no position on the Yankees, he is the biggest punk the game of baseball has ever seen. He won’t play whenever he doesnt want to. GI Joe will likely make him quit. If he doesn’t quit, he’ll just beat up some front office elderly employee and stare at a three pitch strikeout from Papelbon. Randy Johnson people, Randy Johnson.
I think the Baldeli rumblings on this blog have come to a boil, Pete any reason to believe the Yanks would be in on him? Because I have made my case for the guy and would LOVE to see the pride of Woonsocket on the Yanks but don’t know if they even have him on the radar.
E-Man,
Francona probably told him -
“Mike… the guy is a malcontent and a selfish person who will quit when he feels like… but the guy can just flat out hit. The guy can do things, of which the likes we have not seen in baseball. He has ice in his veins, nothing bothers him, he just hits. When the situation gets bigger, he gets better. He can single handedly carry you to a title. No other player in baseball can do that. Look what he did to Ortiz, look what he did to the young Dodger hitters who were under .500 without him. He will ruin the team eventually, but will bring you a title before that.”
“But Manny’s not going to get paid what he’s looking for.
And that’s probably not going to make him very happy.”
so you’re saying he’ll play with a chip on his shoulder to prove everyone wrong?
yeah, who would want a player motivated like that.
you plug manny in the lineup as a DH, it’s 30hr and 120 rbi. guaranteed.
he wouldnt be my first choice of the players still available, but i certainly wouldnt not sign him because he forced his way out of Boston.
“E-Man: That’s interesting about Sciosia still being interested in Manny even after talking to Francona. Pete said in his last post that people who know baseball (e.g. Cash, Girardi) don’t want Manny. But certainly nobody could argue that Sciosia doesn’t know baseball.
Still, how do we know that nugget of info wasn’t planted by Boras? It’s been known to happen before.”
It’s real because it’s a direct quote from Sciosia on a radio show. Boras would use “unnamed sources within the organization”.
“ok, let’s play the what if game:
what if furcal really signed with the dodgers and they are out of the manny sweepstakes?
what is the angels decide that 10 years is ok for tex and give him a 10/220 deal?
what if the red sox decide that 4/64 is ok for lowe and sign him?
Where does Manny play next year?”
Like those what if’s. My answer is Manny signs with the Nationals, whereupon retirement he becomes the new Cabinet Post, Baseball Czar,Chief.
“In that musical chairs contest which $13m employee doesn’t get a chair?”
easy, Matsui. i wouldnt think twice.
gimpy Matsui coming off of two surgically repaired knees and a surgical repaired wrist, or a healthy Manny?
Matsui sits, Damon plays LF, Manny is the DH.
I’m looking at Manny’s historical performance and I don’t see the basis for all this talk of Manny not playing well if he’s unhappy.
If I recall correctly, Manny was traded a few minutes before the trade deadline this year. I guess that means Manny was at his most unhappy in July.
How did he do in July? He had a 1.060 OPS. If he was unhappy in July, he can be unhappy for me anytime.
I’ve read time and again over the years how unhappy Manny was in Boston. In Manny’s one “bad” season in Boston, he had an OPS of 126. Every other year has been consistently fabulous. Again, I don’t know if he was unhappy, but if he was, I’ll take unhappy.
I’ve watched him beat us time and time again. I’ve seen him make diving catches in left against us. I didn’t like it, but I sure respect his game. He could play for my team anytime.
Oh, and to those that want the Yanks to sign Manny to a 3 year deal at 25m+ why not just sign Teix? In 3 years would you sign Teix to a 5 year deal at less than 25m? If you would just sign him to the 8 years he wants now.
Por supuesto que Texeira debe ser la prioridad y luego si se puede Manny por 2 años.
“I can’t vote. I hate Manny. But I recognize he’s a great hitter.”
at least Kevin is being reasonable.
noone is saying Manny isnt selfish, or that he doesnt come with his own issues.
but the guy was born to rake, and if signed he’ll help this team win ballgames.
I want the Yankees to get younger, better, all around players on both offense, defense and pitching.
The CC signing was a necesity. I didn’t like Burnett deal because he’s over 30 and has an injury history but it was better than signing Lowe. It’s also why I don’t want Cameron. He’s not great offensively and has lost a step on defense and is old. Baldelli intrigues me more.
So, sticking with that philosophy, I say no to Manny. yes he’s a great hitter but he’s lost something the past few years, excluding his time in LA. He’s also a headcase who doesn’t always play hard and his best days are behind him. I’d much rather have Teixeira who fills a big need, plays great defense, and by all accounts is a good guy even if he’s not quite the hitter Manny is.
“Oh, and to those that want the Yanks to sign Manny to a 3 year deal at 25m+ why not just sign Teix?”
i would rather that, actually.
Turn two that’s easy for us to say from here. Sit Matsui. But look at the painful lengths they went to in order to keep Giambi’s salary from being a waste and playing him at 1b. They aren’t just going to eat 13 million dollars, and nobody wants Matsui in a trade at this point.
“Everyone is putting all their eggs in the “what if everything goes perfectly?” basket. ”
True. Lots of ifs in the line up.
That said signing Manny is absolutely no different an approach.
You are still putting all your eggs in the “what if everything goes perfectly? basket.
Only this time Manny is what you are are putting all of your eggs into. You are betting that everything will go optimally with him and that he won’t repeat what he did last year or so many other times in the past.
The difference between standing pat with the current line up vs. adding Manny isn’t betting on perfection vs. not betting on perfection.
It’s what kind of perfection you’d more like to bet on.
It’s a difference of what kind of risk you are willing to accept –
The risk the guys in the line up stay healthy and produce or
The risk that Manny keeps it together and doesn’t cause the team to melt down as he very, very nearly did in Boston last year.
You sign Manny to a 2-3 year deal and he melts down in year one he is basically untradable.
NO
“What free agent OF’s sign for this off-season doesn’t impact arbitration this year.
They go by his numbers of last year.”
SJ44-
If by that you mean you can’t introduce new 2009 contracts as evidence in the 2009 arbitration cases, then I will defer to you as I’m sure you know more about that stuff than I do.
If that’s so, then yes, Abreu might have done better in arbitration than on the open market.
Can you explain why 2009 contracts would no be allowed to be introduced into evidence in a 2009 arbitration hearing? It seems those contracts would be the best evidence of what a willing buyer and willing seller would agree to, which I thought was the arbitrator’s task.
I firmly believe that listening to WFAN makes you much dumber. Some of the people that call up and are Yankee fans are disturbing. It’s embarrassing.
Im not for manny coming to the bronx but i wouldnt be upset or offended if he were to come. Do you think yankee fans hated babe ruth when he was traded from boston to ny? im sure he wasnt embraced at the time but eventually he turned into one of the permanent symbols of the yankee franchise. Then, there is Lowell, Henderson, Wells, Clemens, Cone, Leyritz, Cerone, Elston howard, Pavano who was traded for pedro (they could have taken him back) and about a hundred other players. Its funny or ironic really that David Wells, David Cone and Roger Clemens (along with Andy pettitte) formed the absolute dominant core of starters during the dynasty error of my generation and all of them had been or later were on the redsox. Ohh free agency.
But the point is, how exactly is Manny any different than this list along with the hundreds of others who remained unlisted? Because manny won two world series with the sox and none of these other players did, is that where the unwillingness to accept him as a yankee comes from? Because imagine the look on the redsox fans faces when they see manny light a rocket that eliminates the redsox from the playoffs. It will be the same look as 2000 when clemens frontlined a yankee rotation that won the world series for the second year in a row – a feat in which clemens could never do for the sox in his prime.
And pete is dead wrong about manny’s motivation in a yankee uniform. I find it quite unlikely that manny will not only be upset about getting 25 million per year but he would be so upset that he would underperform on the team – I also think its fair to say that manny will not think of getting three years instead of five as a slight by the yanks as much as by the current market as no one will ever come close to that number. Further, why doesnt manny have reason to stick it to the sox? He practically begged to leave and all but forced the redsox to move him or stop playing. He obviously was unhappy there and would take it out on his old team. Whats more, his aggravating nature and incessant rumors of wanting to leave boston did not crop up in his first couple of years – i think that it would be the same here. He may be itching to get out at some point but it likely will not be early in the deal. And finally, i always thought he would be a bad role model in the clubhouse with his manny being manny antics and his selfish, childish displays but frankly, he is one of the best hitters of all time. He is ranked ninth in ops all-time NOT AMONG ACTIVE PLAYERS – only pujols is above him actively. he is not babe ruth or ted williams who are one and two but he is not significantly behind them. He has won every single silver sluggin award in his position since 2000 and is eighth all time in slugging in between mark mcguire and hank greenberg (Not bad company at all for slugging.) How can he not impart some of that hitting knowledge and patience onto the younger generations? And he did always look like he was having fun with the younger guys on the sox.
i dont want to say yes i wholeheartedly support this move and would advocate for it but if he did come to NY, I would certainly welcome him with open arms as a superb bat to our lineup and he comes in with one of the most excellent post season hitting track records in history – hitting over 300 in every single post season series since ALDS 2003 except one spanning 42 games. His obp has also consistently stayed in the 400 to 600 range in short series. His clutch stats are almost unbelievable hitting over 300 in almost every single type of pressure situation and 393 with a man in scoring position and 2 out – the yankees achilles heel at times.
So… let’s recap. In order for our offense to be good (not great, I’m talking merely good and acceptable), the following has to happen:
- A-Rod has to continue some mythical odd-year streak where he mashes
- Posada, age 37 coming off shoulder surgery, has to hit like he did in 2007. In 2007, he hit over 60 points above his .277 career BA
- Matsui, who has been injury prone ever since he broke his wrist has to stay healthy. Missed most of 2006, banged up all of 2007 and got his knee drained twice down the stretch and was ineffective in October. Missed 2+ months last year.
- Swisher, who hit .219 and traded for a bag of balls after 1 bad year, needs to match his ‘career’ year in 07 where he hit .260. Even then, he still strikes out 130 times a year.
- Cano needs to hit like he did in the 2nd half of 2007 and stop having these 1st half swoons. Now this is one of the likely cases… Cano will be better next year.
- Nady hit .268 for the Yankees and the AL figured him out quickly. He has a lot of holes in his swing. He is a weak ground out to SS waiting to happen. We have to pray he hits like he did in the pits of the NL Central.
I’m not even going to write about CF, that will be a disaster either way. Cameron strikes out 160 times a year and hits .230 and is 36 yrs old. Gardner will be lucky to hit .230 and looks like he is swinging a wet newspaper.
Well, if virtually all of those things don’t come to fruition, we are screwed.
was Baldelli tendered a contract or offered arbitration?
What will we do if just one of these guys gets hurt(Matsui. Posada, Damon, Nady) its entirely possible they get hurt every team gets injuries. Only this time when one of those guys go down we won’t have Abreu and Giambi there to clean up the mess nobody is thinking! At the bare minimum we need Dunn, however if we are gonna get an overweight guy who cant play the field it might as well be Manny who can hit 320 and slam 40 bombs.
“so you’re saying he’ll play with a chip on his shoulder to prove everyone wrong?”
No. That’s not what I wrote at all. The “chip on his shoulder” is your perception of how he would play. That’s on possibility.
However, you are completely and entirely discounting the risk that you simply don’t want to acknowledge – that instead of playing with a chip on his shoulder he will be discontented with the team that signed him and will blow it up just as he did in boston in 2008. Just as he came very close to doing in 2006 when he took the entire month of september off while lying about an injury.
You are simply closing your eyes to the risk he involves.
That’s fine. But it doesn’t make it go away.
Logistically, economically, rationally, perhaps even morally signing manny seems wrong but emotionally my heart keeps telling me it just seems so right.
So… let’s recap. In order for our offense to be good (not great, I’m talking merely good and acceptable), the following has to happen:
– A-Rod has to continue some mythical odd-year streak where he mashes
– Posada, age 37 coming off shoulder surgery, has to hit like he did in 2007. In 2007, he hit over 60 points above his .277 career BA
– Matsui, who has been injury prone ever since he broke his wrist has to stay healthy. Missed most of 2006, banged up all of 2007 and got his knee drained twice down the stretch and was ineffective in October. Missed 2+ months last year.
– Swisher, who hit .219 and traded for a bag of balls after 1 bad year, needs to match his ‘career’ year in 07 where he hit .260. Even then, he still strikes out 130 times a year.
– Cano needs to hit like he did in the 2nd half of 2007 and stop having these 1st half swoons. Now this is one of the likely cases… Cano will be better next year.
– Nady hit .268 for the Yankees and the AL figured him out quickly. He has a lot of holes in his swing. He is a weak ground out to SS waiting to happen. We have to pray he hits like he did in the pits of the NL Central.
I’m not even going to write about CF, that will be a disaster either way. Cameron strikes out 160 times a year and hits .230 and is 36 yrs old. Gardner will be lucky to hit .230 and looks like he is swinging a wet newspaper.
Well, if virtually all of those things don’t come to fruition, we are screwed.
“They aren’t just going to eat 13 million dollars, and nobody wants Matsui in a trade at this point.”
what lineup, at that point, helps this team win games if Manny does come to NY?
the point is to win games and win championships.
Manny plays over Matsui. having too many good bats, like arms, is not a problem. Girardi will find Matsui ABs if its what helps the team.
Rocco Baldelli should play CF for Yanks for 4M?. He was real good for Tampa, is young and reports say his disease was mis-diagnosed.
Then Matsui could be traded to Seattle for Washburn. Just as good LH as Pettite, and much younger. That should fill out the rotation, and solve the outfield problem, with Gardner/Melky as 4th OF. Then they could try to sign Ty Wiggington for reserve at 3b, 2b, 1b, and corner outfield.
Signing Manny would not — repeat, not — bring the Yankees any closer to returning to the playoffs. This is not fantasy league baseball, folks. It’s flesh and blood. The deal worse force Johnny Damon to become the everyday centerfielder. That move would instantly make the Yankees the worst defensive team in the majors. Envision (or should I say shudder at) a starting outfield left to right of Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon and Xavier Nady. Sabathia, Burnett and Wang are going to have to average 300 strikeouts to keep balls keep falling between that defensively challenged trio.
The Yankees need to get younger, faster and more athletic. No matter how many homers he smashes, Manny Ramirez — 37 next Memorial Day — will run counter to that. He makes the Yankees older, slower and less athletic. And one step closer to another third place finish. Or worse.
“So… let’s recap. In order for our offense to be good (not great, I’m talking merely good and acceptable), the following has to happen:
– A-Rod has to continue some mythical odd-year streak where he mashes
– Posada, age 37 coming off shoulder surgery, has to hit like he did in 2007. In 2007, he hit over 60 points above his .277 career BA
– Matsui, who has been injury prone ever since he broke his wrist has to stay healthy. Missed most of 2006, banged up all of 2007 and got his knee drained twice down the stretch and was ineffective in October. Missed 2+ months last year.
– Swisher, who hit .219 and traded for a bag of balls after 1 bad year, needs to match his ‘career’ year in 07 where he hit .260. Even then, he still strikes out 130 times a year.
– Cano needs to hit like he did in the 2nd half of 2007 and stop having these 1st half swoons. Now this is one of the likely cases… Cano will be better next year.
– Nady hit .268 for the Yankees and the AL figured him out quickly. He has a lot of holes in his swing. He is a weak ground out to SS waiting to happen. We have to pray he hits like he did in the pits of the NL Central.
I’m not even going to write about CF, that will be a disaster either way. Cameron strikes out 160 times a year and hits .230 and is 36 yrs old. Gardner will be lucky to hit .230 and looks like he is swinging a wet newspaper.
Well, if virtually all of those things don’t come to fruition, we are screwed.”
Thank you for stating the obvious. Nobody gets that we are depending on all these things to go right in order to have a decent offensive team.
“You are simply closing your eyes to the risk he involves.
That’s fine. But it doesn’t make it go away.”
i completely understand the risk, and im not saying it’ll be completely hunkey dorey if Manny came to the Bronx… I just think reward is greater than the risk in this case.
you think otherwise. thats fine.
They`ve got about 20 million to spend:
-Sign Pettitte (10 mil)
-Trade for Nick Johnson (5.5 mil, don’t castrate me)
-Sign Baldelli (4-5 mil)
That gives you plenty of depth to cover for Damon/Matsui/Johnson’s injuries and gives you the potential for a really great team.
Basically, you are banking on all these old players and/or guys with injuries having bounce back years and staying healthy. And if they don’t, then the offense will be even worse than last year.
Not the smartest strategy for a $200 million dollar team who just invested $243 million in pitching and wants to win a world series.
I would love to have a guy with the bat talent Manny has, but not manny. I asume being an old dude is the reason. I just would hate to see the precedence set in the major leagues to reward that type of player. For the money these guys make I can accept unhappiness, but in no way for any reason can I or Would I ever tolerate quitting on the team. Having a mind block and not hustling is one thing. Simply and happily quitting on your mates cannot be tolerated. I hope the guy ends up playing everyday for the worst team in baseball for league mini. What a waste of talent.
How unhappy can you get making 10 to 30 million a year to play a game. The league shouldn’t even allow him to play, permanent bannishment is the answer to that type of mentality.
Wave,
2009 contracts aren’t eligible to be debated in arbitration hearings because the hearing with a given player is based on their 2008 season.
Its basically a hearing to determine a player’s salary for 2009 based on his 2008 performance. Historical data is used by each side to illustrate points.
Overall however, its about the merits of the players 2008 performance to determine his 2009 salary.
No to Manny. I am glad to see that most of you agree with me!
Listen, if it was just a matter of “Manny being Manny,” I suppose you could put up with it for a few seasons, especially if he was hitting the way he can. Lord knows, he is a prolific hitter. But the things he pulled on the Red Sox last year go beyond the pale. I mean, if reports are to be believed, his own teammated voted him “off the island.” That speaks volumes. And they knew the advantage that Manny gave them offensively.
As for Baldelli, well, I’m glad his diagnosis is no longer so dire. But he did go out of his way to say he was not misdiagnosed, according to XM Baseball. It was a matter of fine-tuning the diagnosis. I still wouldn’t want him. Diagnosis or not, he was not able to play consecutive games, he was not able to work out if he was going to play. Perhaps with a new diagnosis they can try new medications, new treatment, but his situation his not going to change overnight because of a slight improvement in the diagnosis of his condition. I sincerely hope he gets well, or is able to find the proper treatment in order to live a more normal life, but his baseball life is still going to be compromised. All those things he struggle with don’t go away overnight.
“They`ve got about 20 million to spend:
-Sign Pettitte (10 mil)
-Trade for Nick Johnson (5.5 mil, don’t castrate me)
-Sign Baldelli (4-5 mil)
That gives you plenty of depth to cover for Damon/Matsui/Johnson’s injuries and gives you the potential for a really great team.”
Nick Johnson and Rocco Baldelli? Excuse me while I call my orthopedist I’ll see if his summer is booked up.
Sign Tex not Manny
Baldelli’s actual illness is treatable, unlike the previous one. So, it won’t change overnight but by Spring Training it might.
“If I recall correctly, Manny was traded a few minutes before the trade deadline this year. I guess that means Manny was at his most unhappy in July.
How did he do in July? He had a 1.060 OPS. If he was unhappy in July, he can be unhappy for me anytime.”
Manny was doing two things simultaneously before the trade deadline and had been doing so for weeks.
He was doing both to make sure he’d get traded.
He was creating as big a problem as he could over his indignation with his contract options as possible both in the club house and the press. And he was completely disregarding his contractual obligations to the team by refusing to play.
This was in addition to physically assaulting a 64 year old employee of the organizations.
That ill behavior was intended to make it completely non-viable for the Sox to keep him. He accomplished that.
Of course that still left him with the problem of making another team want him.
And that’s why he started playing better in July.
He didn’t have a particularly good first half of the season. Not bad by any means but not nearly what he was capable of.
Dear Ed,
Now that Furcal is off the market, I say trade Cano for Kemp and sign Hudson. Perhaps the Yankees viewed Furcal’s medical history and determined him too much of an injury risk. And our search for a leadoff hitter for 2010 is still very much up in the air. Oh well, at least we can keep talking about trading Cano for Kemp especially now that the Cameron deal is dead.
Right Ed?
NO
“Overall however, its about the merits of the players 2008 performance to determine his 2009 salary.”
So will Wang’s injury cost him serious dollars, or will that not play a part in the hearing?
please no
Our team is the 2008 Blue Jays next year if we don’t get a bat. How do you lose Bobby Abreu AND Jason Giambi, and replace them with Nick Swisher? Is this it? Does Cash think replacing 2 of the best hitters of this era with a slightly above league average player is OK?
Tex wont be a Yankee, get over it.. Manny is a good move because next year when Matsui and Damon and Nady are gone, were going to be looking for a bat.. SO Id rather go into to NEXT off season with Manny and Arod 3-4 hitters. and then possibly sign one of the top free agents in hitters next year, and we’ll be set. were not going to get Tex, so get over it..
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET THE MATT KEMP-ROBINSON CANO TRADE OUT OF YOUR HEADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, i dont know how many more people from the Yankees and Writers have to say it.. even Joe Torre said it.. wow you people are pathetic
Did WFAN mean pressure as in hitting pressure (ie: protection)? Or pressure as in stress (ie: in his head)?
If the latter than they might have a point. Manny would certainly gobble up some of the attention ARod seems to wilt under. If the former, than I think you are right… they are reaching for something that isn’t there. ARod can do just fine with the protection the current lineup gives him.
“Its basically a hearing to determine a player’s salary for 2009 based on his 2008 performance. Historical data is used by each side to illustrate points.”
This is why it was the right decision to decline arbitration for all of those players.
The market has completely changed this winter from last for players like Abreu, Pettite, Ivan Rodriguez, etc.
Pudge would jump out of his socks right now for the chance to go to arbitration with the yankees – he’d get $13M. He’ll get nowhere close to that now.
All of those players would gave been reasonable see it in their interest to decide to get paid based on the existing market rather than in the emerging market.
It’s very fortunate that they decided to skip arbitration. If any of those players accepts the entire off season plan and budget goes down the drain.
Our team is the 2008 Blue Jays next year if we don’t get a bat. How do you lose Bobby Abreu AND Jason Giambi, and replace them with Nick Swisher? Is this it? Does Cash think replacing 2 of the best hitters of this era with a slightly above league average player is OK?
——————–
Manny Ramirez and Teixeira are not the only bats available.
There are other options and given this market – the Yanks can find a bat if they need one when other teams are in salary dump mode.
Defense means something, ya know. And throwing a grenade in the middle of the clubhouse is not exactly a sound idea.
The Yanks should sign Tex, and trade Matsui to Seattle for Washburn (just as good a leftie as Pettite, but much younger).
This would trade Matsui’s salary for a #5 pitcher which they need anyway, and then use Swicher in LF, Nady in RF, Gardner in CF and use Damon in DH.
That would solve all the Yank’s problems. Why worry about the budget in three years? The economy will crash by then.
Aaron,
So I was thinking, say Manny signs with the Dodgers because without him they ‘re going nowhere. With a surplus of outfielders, maybe it makes sense for them to upgrade their hole at 2b and trade Kemp for one of the top 2b’s on the market. Say Cano?
Care to discuss?
No, this team isn’t the Blue Jays of last year.
Did the Blue Jays of last year have anybody as good as Damon, Cano, Jeter and Arod offensively? No.
I’m not even taking into consideration a return by Matsui and Posada. If they are ok, its a MUCH better team than the Blue Jays of last year.
In fact, its not even close to being the Blue Jays of last year.
That’s hysterical talk radio babble not rooted in any facts.
This “bad” offensive team, if no other changes are made, will probably score between 820-860 runs next year. Which, is much more than Tampa (774) scored last year on their way to the WS.
Vin,
Yes, Wang’s injury cost him a good chunk of change. Its why I think he will sign and avoid arbitration this year.
“i completely understand the risk, and im not saying it’ll be completely hunkey dorey if Manny came to the Bronx… I just think reward is greater than the risk in this case.”
I agree it’s a matter of risk and reward.
But when you write the following with regards to manny:
“noone cares… why? because now that player got what he wanted, and now he knows he’s back to the realization that he is a professional athlete who is determined to be one of the greatest who played the game, and wants to win championships.
Manny will perform… he’s already said he’s got the goal of hitting 700 HRs before he even thinks about retiring… yeah, thats got unmotivated written all over it.”
Or
“you plug manny in the lineup as a DH, it’s 30hr and 120 rbi. guaranteed.”
Or
any of the other definitive statements you’ve made (I could continue to quote them at length…)
It sounds to me that you are in fact acknowledging 0% risk with regards to Manny. It sounds like you are assuming close to no risk at all.
Honktwice,
If Pettitte bolts, Matsui for Washburn seems like sensible idea for 1 year. The money’s a wash and Seattle gets another Japanese marketing weapon in Matsui. You’re thinking outside the box.
Texeira is the way to go Cashman! Wisdom is required here. A young, switch hitting 1b that hits for avg. and power plus a gold glover is not easy to find. If you do what I suggested before, it would only cost the Yanks an extra $10M-13M to what they have right now…
The length of the contract? Not to worry, by then that would be the least your worries.
no because it’s not going happen..
I VOTED YES .. . Manny would help big time . . i’d take a one third Manny over most 100 percent players in baseball.
its Just Manny being Manny
Aaron,
Fine, be that way.
How old are we 12?? lol.
It’s not a realistic situation. The Dodgers aren’t going to trade Kemp , because Jones and Pierre will be gone..
Bret the Hitman:
Look at Washburn’s numbers in recent years; just as good as Pettite’s. This deal needs to get done. The Yankees can kill two birds with one stone, and then use the money to sign TEX. Give him the $20M 8-9yrs contract. He is one of the few players who truly is worth it.
Zolio – i almost completely agree with your assessment of the lineups flaws. The mere fact that cashman had the audacity to explicitly state that he expected improvements across the board in terms of this lineup was either some elaborate strategy to make a certain trade or sheer lunacy. I cant imagine he expected both matsui and posada to stay healthy for 500 at bats while also expecting both cano and swisher to completely recover from absolutely devastating seasons- that is the equivalent of banking on the blue jays to overtake the AL east this year. And nady is far from ideal as he represents league average production out of right field at most. His swing leaves alot to be desired.
Whether or not posada and matsui can stay healthy for the year is almost certainly a no and even if they somehow manage to pull off such a myrical, the likelihood that the two of them both stay healthy while no one else on the team has any significant injury would likely grow to 100 percent.
One area of disagreemtn: Despite public perception of swisher and his pretty low avg, i have to maintain that nicholas thompson swisher is perhaps cashmans best move since he took over the team outside of a pure salary dump in which the yankees were the beneficiary as in the late lidle and abreu trade as well as the more recent nady and marte deal. Those can hardly count as that is just as much a reflection of the yanks vast resources as cashman using his head and thinking creatively rather than monetarily. Swisher did hit a horrible rough patch last year which is no doubt concerning but his obp the two years before speak volumes – 372 and 381. Add that to his 35 career high in homeruns and the fact that he is only 28 and you should realize nick has some serious promise. For reference abreu had a 371 obp last season, 10 points lower than swisher’s in 2007. Swisher struck out considerably often but he grounds into few double plays and in an abysmal season in 2008, he somehow managed to lead all of baseball in pitches per plate appearance. A stat horribly underappreciated and a stat that is significantly important. Abreu and Giambi left voids not only in power and obp but in discerning eyes – ranked 5th and 7th in baseball. Therefore, swisher takes up the job to wear down pitchers raising pitch count and dramatically decreasing starting pitchers effectiveness and the time at which the often inferior bullpen comes out.
Only 2 years ago, swisher showed great promise of being capable of hitting to the tune of 300 total bases and an ops plus that could be among the tops in the league. i envisioned him as almost a miniature giambi. The expectations have shrunk but like cano the promise is still there and it wasnt too long since it last showed. I expect cano to bounce back but not to a 340 average. It would be nice if he could gain some consistency throughout a season as well as increase his obp to be at least 40 points above his average. if cano put up 300 350 next season, I would be happy.
Honktwice,
People are willing to pay Teixeira, unproven in the clutch, up to 4 times as much money as Manny, a proven clutch hitter who gets you the big hit when you need it. Fuzzy math. I like your Matsui for Washburn deal much better.
“If Pettitte bolts, Matsui for Washburn seems like sensible idea for 1 year. The money’s a wash and Seattle gets another Japanese marketing weapon in Matsui. You’re thinking outside the box”
not unless we sign a player to replace Matsui. As right now, we need his bat in the lineup.
Yes I want Manny
Manny is the Bronx, he would make a big impact on the team.
Hopefully positive.
The Furcal situation just gets worse and worse.
The Braves are now saying they faxed a signed term sheet to Furcal on Monday at the request of Furcal’s agent.
And it looks like the agent may have taken that signed term sheet from the braves and shopped it to the dodgers.
What team is ever going to trust Paul Kinzer again?
I can’t believe he’d do that.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
Matsui’s not getting traded either.. Yanks aren’t going to get rid of the Japanese market, and let Boston take it over.. It’s not going to happen.. Put down your X-Box controller..
Here’s what you guys need.
http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/142/14288578.html
Vinny,
That would be Manny. I think he makes more sense than Tex, especially if they can trade Matsui for Washburn. Gotta tip my cap to Honktwice for getting half of the equation right.
Bret the Hitman:
I am open to replace TEX with MANNY in the Washburn/Matsui trade scenario I just presented. Matsui has to be replaced with a good hitter; either TEX or Manny…
If the Yanks sign Dunn or Manny, Washburn for Matsui is not a bad idea. I was driving the trade for Washburn bandwagon last year and now that this is the last year of his deal, I’d be even more gung ho.
But why would the rebuilding Seattle trade for Matsui? After getting rid of Putz and the filler/warm bodies they accepted for him just to get some prospects thrown in?
I don’t see it, I think the only way it gets done is if we include a prospect. It is a good idea though.
“It is a good idea though.”
*in theory
I understand those of you who say Manny has nothing to play for. I beg to differ, Even disagree with Pete. Here me out. How bout the idea that Manny would play for YANKEES and its history and try to become a part of The Yankees history and even the history of a new stadium, also How bout Manny wanting to stick it BIG TIME to the Sox all year long, and I think nothing would drive Manny more than to bring a Championship to NEW YORk YANKEES!!!! Manny has hate for the Sox and I think he would be driven to be a MVP for the Yanks and would do whatever it took to make sure Yanks are better than Sox. So i do think theres something for Manny to play for. GO GET MANNY and watch ARODS numbers rise to a new level..
“It sounds like you are assuming close to no risk at all.”
but go ahead and tell me he wont go out and hit 30HR and drive in 120RBI.
i just said, i assume things wont be great every day in the clubhouse. Manny is going to have his Manny moments. thats undeniable.
again, risk and reward. and to me, reward is greater than risk with him.
i see more chance of him coming in and being a big time bat than coming in and blowing up the franchise.
and btw, all of this can be forgotten if they just invest the money in Tex instead.
but i think we all realize that opportunity has come and is just about gone.
Based on the poll results, Manny should be here by early next week.
Hey that’s how the poll worked out for AJ!
The LoHud poll curse of 2008.
Aaron,
In your heart of hearts (dig deep now), do you believe that Matsui would generate more money for the Yankees than Manny Ramirez in pinstripes facing the Sox in Fenway? Those series won’t be seen on TV on the cheap back here in the states.
CB-
You know I have enormous respect for your posts so don’t take what I’m about to say the wrong way.
And before I have the rest of my say, I want to make it clear that I’m fine if the Yanks don’t go for Manny. I think Pettitte and Cameron would give us a real good chance for the playoffs, and my first choice is still Teixeira and take a chance the kids in the minors can hold down a rotation slot.
But I take issue with the notion Manny is risky. Next to Teixeira, IMO Manny’s the least risky guy out there.
Manny had one bad month in 2008. May. Not June, not July, not April. Yes, there was a lot of back and forth, but Manny had a lot of plate appearances throughout. In June, he was merely one of the best hitters in the AL. In July, he was phenomenal at the plate. Maybe he was doing it for a trade. We will never know for sure. But you can’t say he wasn’t playing well to get traded and at the same time was playing phenomenally well to get traded.
Take 2006. Yes, he missed September. He said he had tendonitis in the knee. A lot of Boston fans wondered if he did. But as far as I know, Manny’s never said he didn’t.
Before September in 2006, Manny was a monster. In the four preceding months, he had OPS of 1.167, 1.089, 1.099 and 1.135. Near the end of August, we crushed the Sox in Fenway and the season was for all practical purposes over. So Manny missing September didn’t really hurt the Sox.
Otherwise, Manny has year in and year out had 550+ plate appearances. He has consistently been good. In his off year, 2007, he had an OPS+ of 126. Every other year has been much better.
I went back and did a google search on Ramirez. Plenty of contemporaneous reports say, far from being a cancer, he was generally a great teammate in the clubhouse. The knock I read on him before 2008 was that he could seem distracted at times.
The clubhouse incident seems like an aberration to me. I just don’t think that was the real Manny.
I think we are letting these sportswriters give us a biased impresson of Manny. I think we should trust what we have seen at the Stadium and on TV when he played us.
That said, if the Yanks don’t address the last rotation spot or CF and have to trade Matsui to get Manny, I am very lukewarm on the whole enterprise.
BBB,
The rebuilding Mariners could use a few extra marketing dollars. Matsui gives them that. Washburn doesn’t. The money’s a wash. Washburn and Pettitte are pretty much the same pitcher save Washburn stands a better chance to stay healthy IMHO. I think the proposed trade by Honktwice is a match made in heaven.
hitman, you dont want manny, you wanna trade Matsui for jerrod washburn.. haha.. and you wanna sign Tex, so if dont sign tex and trade Matsui and Manny signs with Angels.. Who the hell we going to have?? If we can’t get Tex and Manny. Who do you want?????
I’d love to see the same poll under the assumption that the yankees do NOT get teixiera, I’d imagine the numbers flip flop with ease.
TurnTwo,
You fight a good fight, but you must be blue in the face. You make some compelling arguments, but nothing will change people’s mind about Manny.
It will be interesting, though, to see what happens in the blogosphere if the Yankees sign Manny.
Nick jonson and baldelli seriously?
Adding depth to cancel out injury risks with even bigger injury risks is not the solution.
And this whole thing with baldellis misdiagnosis and subsequent change of diagnosis seems far, far too convenient. he is a free agent and all of a sudden a severe, recurring, genetic mitochondrial abnormality somehow becomes a highly treatable, non-recurrent disease. My initial instinct was good news for him but my next was isnt baldelli currently a free agent and how nice it is that a team can now safely sign him. This is due to the fact that the mitochondrial disease he supposedly had primarily target tissues that requires massive energy input like brain, nerve and muscle tissue. The mitochondria are slow or ineffective slowing the process of converting energy containing products and oxygen into energy for fuel. Muscle tissues are severey affected especially in strenuous exercise building up large, unhealthy quantities of lactic acid in the muscle. which the body takes time to remove. This causes premature fatigue and even muscle spasms in some cases. The brain deficiencies present as stroke-like pinpoint headaches and other complications. Treatment is not available for this condition.
So of course if this is not what baldelli has it begs the question why has he been on the dl so often with various ailments. His new diagnosis is really a vague widespread term and i dont know exactly what the symptoms or treatments are but it is safe to say i would stay away from baldelli for at least another year to determine if this whole thing is in fact real and he will take a treatment and be free of the disease.
Nick johnson is a train wreck. He is as bad as pavano if not worse hardly ever playing a full season intact. i DONT THINK the number of injuries johnson has had can fit on a post and he is still only 30. one almost ful season in seven years equals NEVER SIGN THEM. If they are on the dl more often than they are on the field – they are not worth it or the agony of hearing the news that he is once again on the dl.
Our goal is youth, defensively oriented, athletic and healthy. Johnson, Baldelli and Pettitte do not follow a couple of these goals each.
Aaron,
I don’t want Manny over my first choice which is a 2009 offseason trade for Prince Fielder. If the Yankees hinted at interest in Fielder during the Cameron-Melky talks and the price was deemed unreasonable, I understand why they would halt all trade talks with the Brewers, lowball pettitte and clear salary space for Manny and then trade Matsui for Pettitte’s replacement in Washburn.
The above scenario is sensible but I wanted Manny on the Dodgers which would force their hand in the outfield. The only one of their surplus OF’s they could turn into a legitimate upgrade at 2b is Kemp.
So, I’ve said all along that either we get Kemp or Manny depending on what the Dodgers want to do.
Furcal is off the market but Hudson is still there and will be a bargain.
We’ll see what happens. My gut tells me it’s Manny to the Yanks. My brain tells me it should be Kemp.
We’ll see…
I vote no for Manny. If we lost out on Teixeira(not too confident we are gonna land him anyway) my vote would remain the same.
Stay away from wacky Manny
Nick jonson and baldelli seriously?
Adding depth to cancel out injury risks with even bigger injury risks is not the solution.
“You make some compelling arguments, but nothing will change people’s mind about Manny.”
and honestly, i dont really care one way or the other. if they sign him, this team is better.
if they dont, i am ok with the team as constructed.
id rather them get Tex than sign Manny, even with the long term commitment.
but it just seems to me that people think Manny will come here and be bigger than the franchise, and ultimately tear the whole organization down around him.
i just think thats unrealistic. to me, there is MUCH more of a chance he comes here, provides big hits, and helps the team win then the doomsday scenerio other people paint in the Manny portrait.
And this whole thing with baldellis misdiagnosis and subsequent change of diagnosis seems far, far too convenient. he is a free agent and all of a sudden a severe, recurring, genetic mitochondrial abnormality somehow becomes a highly treatable, non-recurrent disease. My initial instinct was good news for him but my next was isnt baldelli currently a free agent and how nice it is that a team can now safely sign him. This is due to the fact that the mitochondrial disease he supposedly had primarily target tissues that requires massive energy input like brain, nerve and muscle tissue. The mitochondria are slow or ineffective slowing the process of converting energy containing products and oxygen into energy for fuel. Muscle tissues are severey affected especially in strenuous exercise building up large, unhealthy quantities of lactic acid in the muscle. which the body takes time to remove. This causes premature fatigue and even muscle spasms in some cases. The brain deficiencies present as stroke-like pinpoint headaches and other complications. Treatment is not available for this condition.
So of course if this is not what baldelli has it begs the question why has he been on the dl so often with various ailments. His new diagnosis is really a vague widespread term and i dont know exactly what the symptoms or treatments are but it is safe to say i would stay away from baldelli for at least another year to determine if this whole thing is in fact real and he will take a treatment and be free of the disease.
Nick johnson is a train wreck. He is as bad as pavano if not worse hardly ever playing a full season intact. i DONT THINK the number of injuries johnson has had can fit on a post and he is still only 30. one almost ful season in seven years equals NEVER SIGN THEM. If they are on the dl more often than they are on the field – they are not worth it or the agony of hearing the news that he is once again on the dl.
Our goal is youth, defensively oriented, athletic and healthy. Johnson, Baldelli and Pettitte do not follow a couple of these goals each.
“That would be Manny. I think he makes more sense than Tex, especially if they can trade Matsui for Washburn. Gotta tip my cap to Honktwice for getting half of the equation right”
Bret: have given it much thought, and have went ‘back and forth’ on the matter. I don’t want Manny on this team. I know it is only my opinion, although i take it this is why everyone is on this board; to voice their opinion.
I hope Cashman looks very hard at Baldelli. If healthy, he is basically a 5-tool player. For me, this is my preference for a player. Not to mention, Baldelli is known as a high-character person. And he has the best ‘name’ in baseball
Hey guys found this video of Schilling talking about Manny …
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....ref=fromSI
I want Manny.. I want to destroy Boston.. The Evil Empire needs to reign on Redsox Nation. LOL
Seriously.. all Manny being Manny issues aside.. I want his Bat in our lineup if we can get him. 19 games against Boston, 81 games at the Stadium. Sounds too good for me to pass on.
Vinny,
Here’s 2 extreme scenarios of what could happen if Manny is brought in here.
Scenario 1: Washington Heights. 2009. Manny, Melky, Cano all with dreadlocks huddled around a tall blue glass bong with an interlocking NY on the face of it.
Scenario 2: Washington Heights. 2009. Manny, Melky, Cano all playing in front of Manny’s friends, family and fellow Dominican yankees fans. Manny, Melky and Cano rise to the occasion to make their friends, family and fans proude because the last thing they want to do is embarrass themselves before those they care about most.
You could make an argument either way but those are the extremes and I’m sticking to them.
Vinny,
BTW, there would probably still be money left over for Baldelli if they can dump all of Matsui’s contract in exchange for Pettitte’s replacement Jarrod Washburn.
Rocco Baldelli bio :
http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=202
Interesting footnote: Jarrod Washburn owns a no-trade clause and his agent is Scott Boras. Interesting considering the Yankees could possibly trade Matsui for Washburn to clear room for another Boras client named Manny Ramirez.
He’s a-coming…..get used to it!!!!
Wave,
As usual you make all very reasonable points. Again, I’m not even saying that they should definitely not get Manny. I’d lean against it as I don’t think the arrangements fit in terms of where he’d play, moving matsui, etc.
It’s a very difficult decision. What I’m mostly getting at is that you cannot say that Manny is going to hit 30HR and knock in 120RBI as a definitive thing without acknowledging the chance that Manny will destroy the season with his behavior.
Before the trade deadling last year I felt that Boston had a better chance to make the playoffs without Manny than they did with him.
Maybe that’s wrong. Maybe they would have. But he had created such an untenable situation there that he was hurting the team – not by his play on the field but by his distraction.
Papi said something very interesting after the playoffs. He was asked whehther he felt Manny needed to be traded and he said yes. Now this is the closest guy on the team to Manny. He says yes. Then they asked him if Manny was still on the team do you think you would have won the World Series. And Papi said yes.
That’s what I mean about his risk. Think about that. On the one hand Papi says they absolutely had to trade him. On the other he says if we had kept him we would have won the series.
So Ortiz is essentially acknowledging that the team HAD TO sacrifice it’s best opportunity to win the world series. That’s mind boggling. Papi is essentially saying sacrificing the world series had become the only option.
Now of course there is no guarantee that manny would repeat those problems to the 2008 degree.
But he’s a guy you bring aboard and he’s capable of causing a $200M expenditure on payroll to get flushed down the drain.
He will be under even more scrutiny now than ever before if he comes to NY given everything he’s done over the past year.
He’d not only get covered in the sports pages but also in the tabloid “news” as some bizarre celebrity.
I bring this up because I can just see it now – people will be clamoring for Manny now and then when there are problems they will say the yankees were fools for signing him in the first place.
You quoted a lot of his performance above. But notice you went from 2006 stats to 2008. He was amazing in 2006. But in 2007 he posted a sub .900 OPS for the first time in 13 years. Many people thought he was on the decline. But then he goes to LA and it’s clear he hasn’t declined at all.
Perhaps he just had a bad year. Or perhaps he mailed it in some which is what many people now think happened.
If the yankees get the 2007 Manny then the move is a disaster. He will not be ugrading the team at all and will be exorbitantly expensive when you consider what he’ll get paid and the need to trade matsui.
30 HR/ 120RBI/ /.900OPS won’t be enough for him to justify the move. He’ll need to put up a 1.000+ OPS to do so.
I’ve posted on what Manny did in LA several times. When I looked at his line from those 250 at bats in LA the first thing I thought of was Ted Williams 1941. I’ve never seen a hitter perform at that level the way manny did in LA. His hands, his pitch recognition, bat speed, etc. Amazing.
But where was all of that in 2007 when scouts said his bat was slowing and he was getting old?
If the yankees decide to go with manny that’s their business decision to make. I don’t think there’ s right or wrong decision here.
It’s a matter of what risk you are willing to take. Either you risk an old team has a rebound year or you risk manny will keep it together and be motivated enough to put up a 1.000 OPS+/ .400 wOBA year.
Risk on both sides and to me there’s no way around it. The manny side of the risk ledger includes him being unhappy and blowing up the clubhouse.
If the Sox sign Teixeira, the odds of Manny in pinstripes grows higher. No point in investing all this money on a team just to fall behind your division rivals again.
Manny patroling Death Valley would be a sight to behold.
He is what he is but you can’t really look back and say he didn’t perform well. Not counting the time he refused to play of course.
Honktwice,
I like your idea to trade Matsui for Washburn. It definitely makes sense for the Yankees. The Mariners were supposed to be close to trading him to the Yankees at the deadline but the Yankees didn’t want to give up Melky or Gardner AND pay his whole salary.
I don’t know if they’d want Matsui and his two surgically repaired knees though. The White Sox got a lot for sending Javier Vasquez to the Braves and with Ibanez going to the Phillies, they probably want someone that can play in the outfield. They might be more likely to take it if the Yankees offer them Nady instead of Matsui. That would save them $4 million this year and $10 million in 2009.
It might bet better for the Yankees too. The Yankees would sure up the 4th spot in the rotation with a veteran for about $6 million, which is a lot less than they’d spend otherwise. Trading Nady would let the Yankees move Swisher to right field and open up first base for Teixeira.
What do you think?
Bret,
That trade proposal is all well and good but for two things:
A.) Washburn sucks and is not as dependable as Pettitte
B.) Seattle isn’t interested in adding payroll or an aging DH with bad knees.
All that Japanese market stuff is overblown. Teams don’t acquire players because of something like that. It only becomes icing on the cake if the other reasons for acquiring him makes sense for the team.
And trading for Matsui makes no sense for the Mariners – who are in “blow up mold” and focusing on shedding payroll.
CB,
Is Manny too much of a risk at 2 years 50 million?
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Viper,
Nearly the Yankees nor the Mariners are adding payroll in a Matsu/Washburn deal. One team needs an innings eater, the other needs an offense to compliment Felix, Morrow, Rowland-Smith and Bedard. It’s true that Matsui is 34 and basically a full-time DH at this point in his career. But Edgar Martinez hit on 2 bad knees for a very long time, well into his 30’s.
And trading for Matsui makes no sense for the Mariners – who are in “blow up mold” and focusing on shedding payroll.
——–
That’s “blow up mode” – of course.
Viper,
Pettitte and Washburn had an identical WHIP and BAA. The difference was Washburn didn’t have a bullpen behind him to bail him out.
Keep in mind that even if one were so inclined, there is little chance that “anyone” could “blow up the Yankee clubhouse” with a “presence” like Posada, Mo and Jeter. Anyone so attempting would be put down before he even got started.
your an idiot hitman, you make no sense.. THAT TRADE ISN’T EVEN GOING TO HAPPEN. HAHA.. LOSERS
And never mind Matsui has a full ntc.
That should never enter into the equation, he could be led out to Seattle by the Yankees for the very last year of his contract like a contented cow and play for one year in strange town (to him) on a non-contender just because Brett thinks a great idea.
But Edgar Martinez hit on 2 bad knees for a very long time, well into his 30’s.
————-
This is not the same game as it was a several ago and the Mariners are not the same club.
Besides, Martinez was a borderline Hall of Famer that was a fixture in that lineup for a very long time.
I can think of worse ideas…maybe we need someone to stir the drink.
Viper,
DH is still DH.
Pettitte and Washburn had an identical WHIP and BAA. The difference was Washburn didn’t have a bullpen behind him to bail him out.
————
Pettitte also had a lot of bad luck on his side last season and don’t forget the Yanks have already targeted Pettitte as their #3 priority in the rotation this offseason.
If he accepts their offer as they expect him to do eventually, the rotation is complete.
And there won’t be any adjustment period for Pettitte in NY as there would be with Washburn.
Aaron,
Grow up.
Aaron I agree with you and all of your posts. As least you bring some baseball sense to this blog.. Thank you. Ya Yankees really want to give up a chance for making Andy or Sheets are 5th starter for Washburn ya thats a great idea.
DH is still DH.
————–
But you ignored the other point – the Mariners were a good team back then.
They are now in blow up mode and wanting to shed payroll.
Completely different team now with a completely different outlook going forward.
I don’t think Manny could destroy the team or season. Reggie couldn’t.
Viper,
You think they’d do it for Nady instead of Matsui?
hahaahaha You cant be serious about wanting to trade Nady for Washburn guys come on,You have to know a little more about baseball and the Yankees than this. I hope you guys are kidding please tell me your kidding
I like Manny, he’s humorous, and interesting to watch. I’d watch baseball games with my zombie husband if Manny was brought onto the Yankees lineup.
I don’t think Manny could destroy the team or season. Reggie couldn’t.
———
Reggie never quit on his team. That’s different than a big ego and personality conflicts.
Manny crossed quite a few lines that Reggie would have never crossed.
Manny is a cancer and would quickly transform the Yankee ballclub into the worst defensive team in the league.
When was the last time the worst defensive team in the league won the World Series – or made the postseason for that matter?
I don’t know the answer, but I can’t imagine it’s a long list.
Manny’s own manager – a player’s manager by all accounts in Francona – said Manny was the worst teammate he’d ever managed and the second half of 2008 was the most fun he ever had as manager.
There are other options than signing the biggest clubhouse cancer since Barry Bonds.
With other teams in salary dump mode during the season, Cashman can swing a deal if they need a bat.
Question heard on 1050 Brandon, was complaining about Andy, and this supposedly 3 year deal. Is he just rehashing the info from last week or are his agents still talking about this Phantom 3 year deal.
“This is a guy who has said on the record he does not like pressure or attention and wants a long-term contract.”
1. The “pressure” he might not like is the harangement from the press, NOT the “pressure” as a player, which he undoubtedly thrives on.
2. The “attention” is the tendency of fans to follow him around and interfere with his family dining out which the crazed segment of “Red Sox Nation” did. As Joe T. said, when asked this very question, “New York is not Boston”. Since his roots are in the City, Manny knows where he likes to go, and it’s probably not where the obsessed fanatics will go. You will not see him hitting the same spots as Jeter and A-Rod. It will be a low profile.
3. He “wants a long-term” contract. Who doesn’t?? That’s for openings. As one might recall, Boras’ initial hype for A-Rod was he will go until he is 45-46…nonsense and he got less, though too much. Manny will take 3 with the last year based on a vested option and be happy to be home where he has always wanted to be. As any negotiator well knows, experienced or otherwise, you always ask for more out of the gate than you expect. You do the same on Delancy Street (at least you did way back when).
These are straw issues.
Sign Tex, sink the Sox.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....rail-BoSox
You think they’d do it for Nady instead of Matsui?
————-
Perhaps, but Pettitte is a better option than Washburn and I wouldn’t trade Nady.
Who plays RF if you trade Nady?
Manny? Damon?
Not on your life.
from espn.com
Notes: C Jorge Posada threw from 60 feet Wednesday at the Yankees’ complex in Tampa, Fla., his first throws from that distance since shoulder surgery on July 30. He had three sessions of 25 throws each.
Viper,
The Mariners would winner over fans if they brought in a Japanese icon like Matsui to go with Ichiro. Don’t look now but their pitching is really emerging beneath the radar. They’ve got Felix, Morrow, Rowland-Smith and Bedard. They lost Ibanez and they need offense. They just sold off Putz because there was value there. Not sure how much or how little they could get if they’re offering 1 year of Jarrod Washburn. Could they get more than Matsui? I’m not so sure. Matsui when healthy last year was a beast. Yes he’s an injury risk but the whole idea of surgery is to keep him healthy enough to DH for a full season. It’s only 1 season.
I still say the deal makes sense for both clubs since the Yankees would be clearing space for a very intimidating hitter and a marketing weapon for the new stadium. The amount of media attention will be staggering. And that’s good for business.
“I don’t think Manny could destroy the team or season. Reggie couldn’t.”
That’s a very good point.
But isn’t today an entirely different media environment than 1977-78?
Reggie couldn’t destroy the late ’70’s yankees.
Yet Manny did effectively destroy the composition of the 2008 Red Sox as he forced his way off the team and in turn prohibitively decreased the probability of them winning the series and going back to back.
They win back to back series and they have every right to claim their team is a dynasty.
Manny makes for interesting sports radio. But the comparisons to Reggie Jackson are superficial, if not flat-out wrong. Reggie wanted the attention, and wanted to be the big hero. In contrast, that game when Manny stood with his bat on his shoulder for three straight pitches from Mo – that is Manny being Manny. A self-centered jerk, who couldn’t care less about letting down his team. I hope he never gets the chance to do his nonsense in pinstripes.
Hi everyone. Long time reader, but first time poster.
Really what compelled me to post wasn’t the Manny drama, I personally think that’s overblown and will sputter out as the offseason goes along. What bothers me mostly is everyone still clinging to this Kemp deal. ( Or at least the hope of a Kemp deal ) Even in this thread I see a bunch of references to him.
I’ve watched a lot of his games, I’m aware he’s extremly athletic and a potential 40-40 guy, but he’s got as many problems as Cano in terms of just getting it all together. People are regarding a project player in Kemp a little too highly I think.
Certainly he began playing baseball later in life and as far as he’s come is amazing. However, if you put him under the scrutiny of New York, maybe his evoultion as a player declines because of low self esteem or what have you, or maybe he can’t handle pressure of the New York Media.
I know Kemp has amazing bat speed too, but all it takes is one pitcher to find a favorable pitching sequence for him then others will follow suit and knowing how strike out prone he is I could see him falling victim to pitchers developing a good seqence on hiim. Plus given his lack of baseball knowledge he might not even be able to make the proper adjustments, who knows.
I think there are as many risk to Kemp havinga bad season in pinstirpes as there is Cano. At least we know Cano is accooustomed to the animal that is New York. Not to mention he has some beautful potential himself.
I also don’t I see why we’re so eager to trade low on Cano after a bad year, espeially when we have a player who compares to Kemp in terms of ability in Ajax. I personally think A-jax projects to be a better CF than Kemp — although Kemp wil be a better player, I just see him moved to a corner outfeild spot instead — Ajax to me just shows a better natural instinct on routes to the ball in my opinion and maybe ( though not sure honestly ) a bit faster than Kemp, who himself is amazinglly fast.
Most bothersome it would take more than just Cano considering his off year to net Kemp, which makes it even more confusing.
I just don’t get the over exaggerated man love for Kemp, especially when the trades been debunked weeks ago. People just still seem to go on and on about it. People just seem to be in love with potential and the back of his baseball card that only has one year. The forty steals is pretty sexy tho’.
“The Mariners have been holding out for a better talent return in addition to the payroll relief, with Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera on their wish list. The Mariners, a source said, hope Yankees co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner will decide he has to have Washburn and improve the Yankees’ offer.”
“What looked to be an imminent deal going into the Yankees-Red Sox series is now starting to look a bit less so. The reasoning behind this is that the Seattle Mariners are asking for more than just the salary relief. In addition to this relief, the M’s are asking the Yankees for Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner, Justin Christian, or a top-level prospect. As many would assume, the Yanks are not biting. Had Washburn not been owed nearly $14 million over the remainder of his contract (through 2009) the Yankees may be more willing to part with one of these young outfielders. However, the M’s are looking a bit greedy, and with the price being so high, Washburn wearing pinstripes is not a guarentee.”
Those quotes are from articles written about the almost trade last season. They lost Raul Ibanez, so you would think they will need to replace him somehow, right? If they were ready to trade him last year for Justin Christian to save $14 million, I don’t think its crazy to say they might take Nady to replace Ibanez and save $6 million.
So dont sign Manny and during the year go “find” a salary dump?? Ok give me some names,Why wouldnt you sign Manny and chance trading young guys during the season (which Cashman said he wasnt going to do) Theres going to be no one as talented as Manny during the season. Yanks need some Offense and Manny and/or Tex belong in the line-up. Mike Cameron is not a difference maker.
Matsui for Washburn is ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as the comment that Pettitte and Washburn are bascially the same pitcher. Did I really read that?
Yeah, a guy who has won more than 11 games in a season exactly once (Washburn) is the equal of a guy (Petttite) who has done it no less than 13 times. That’s right, 13 vs 1. And Pettitte has won 15 games or more eight times. And that doesn’t even count the 18-7 season. Which was that? Oh yeah, that happens to be his post-season record.
The disrespect for Pettitte on this board is remarkable and troubling. Here’s a guy who was critical to winning four rings, came up big countless huge and tense games, pitched brilliantly as recently as the 2007 playoffs and was very good last year until his elbow started throbbing in August. Even in his worst year, Andy showed he was still a pretty decent strikeout pitcher (which Washburn has not shown in a long time), so it’s doubtful he’s lost it all overnite. What a bunch of wretched ingrates.
I voted “yes” and for the record I would have signed Bonds last year when the offense was floundering.
I’ve met enough of these guys in my life to know they are not choirboys.
I want to see the Yankees win again while Mariano is still on the team and Manny in the lineup helps that happen.
Anyone sitting here telling me the offense is going to great because Posada and Matsui are back and “healthy” and Cano has suddenly found God is trying to sell me something I’m not sure I believe in.
Matsui’s knees are shot and he most likely can’t play in the field. Jorge still has to make a throw to 2b. As for Cano, I believe this, he’ll take the 1st 2 months of the season off as usual and then get hot when the weather gets hot and get close to .300 with no walks…although if he pulls his usual schtick again, he’ll be traded by July.
Even in a bad year Manny puts up monster numbers and helps win games.
I sign him, bat him cleanup behind Arod and go for it.
It’ll be fun, it’ll be frustrating and it will help make it a truly memorable season.
The boy who blocked his own shot.,
Welcome to the board as a poster. Quite well stated and it indeed echos my thoughts. However, be prepared for a member of the “I hate Cano” fringe to attack you with comments devoid of reasoning.
Bret,
But again, the Yanks don’t want Washburn – they want Pettitte.
The Yanks refused to get Washburn last season for anything more than a nothing prospect and walked away when the Mariners tried to play them.
Do you really think they would now reconsider and trade Matsui for Washburn?
I tend to doubt it.
I voted “no” based on cost and the fact that the Yanks already have 3 guys who can only play only corner OF or DH. But, if money were no object, of course I’d want Manny.
Ask yourself this: Suppose the Yanks already had Manny, as well as Nady, Damon and Matsui. Only 3 of them could play at any one time. Who would sit and who would play? Clearly, Manny would be the starter, at least most of the time, in either LF or DH.
New poster,
Kemp could play CF in 2009 and shift to LF in 2010 when Jackson’s ready. Since Torre and Bowa recognize and understand Cano’s potential, the Dodgers are probably the one team that wouldn’t ask us to ’sell low’ on him. Cano at his best and Kemp at his are the same thing. The big difference is that Cano can be replaced by a bargain in Orlando Hudson while passing on Kemp forces the Yankees to spend big again on someone like Holliday or Ankiel in the 2009 offseason. So the idea is to take Hudson now at a bargain at 2b so you don’t have to go back to market after 2009 and get bent over for an outfielder.
Yes. But we won’t get him because Brian Cashman has done less with more options than anyone in nearly any line of work. Manny would “complete” the Yankees, and yes, probably take some pressure from the proceedings, something the Yanks need. 3 years, $75 million sounds good to me for the best hitter in the sport, current third baseman included. But Cashman and moralistic beat writers or play by play guys like Michael Kay, justify steroid juicers like Giambi and Clemens or HGH dabblers like Petite, ( They’re just such “good guys,” is what we’re told) but when it comes to the “weird Latino” Manny…oh that’s trouble. Despite the fact that he’s made, what, 4 World Series, won two of them, and made the playoffs as the most lethal offensive forces on his team, %95 of the the time….. no, let’s re-sign mediocre Andy, heck, lets give the Giambino another chance – I mean, he may have heisted over $100 million from the Yanks because of the juice, but at least he doesn’t listen to DaddyYankee!!!
Go Yanks!
daniel – just curious: what difference does Manny’s enthnicity make?
*ethnicity
Wow. Rocket scientist you are not.
This season every other post has been about ARod. The Yankees sign Manny and you think reporters are going to stalk Alex or stalk Manny ?
Yeah, Manny. And who will adorn the back pages of the NY Post and Daily News ? Again, Manny.
Pressure (which is all mostly in Alex’s head in the first place) = OFF.
Bret, your telling me to grow up when you sitting here making fake trades..lol.. Come on, Im realistic you live in a fantasy land.. You want to trade Cano for Kemp and Matsui For Washburn.. Hell of an idea… You should be our next GM! You’d have a bunch of fans.. Let me guess, you wanna trade A-Rod also? and by July 31st, you’ll be begging the Yankees to trade Sabathia to Pitt for Grabow..
CB,
A question that’s a bit off-topic but you might be able to help with since you’re so great with numbers. Is there a way to add value to a switch hitter like Teixeira that goes beyond his pure numbers? I’m talking about the effect he (or any good switch hitter) has on a line up. For example, Texeira would limit the moves a team could make late in games with regards to lefty righty match ups. He also avoids stacking the line up with lefties or righties but adds the benefit of having a bunch of players in a row from the stronger side against the pitcher.
I’m a big believer in the value of having very good switch hitters and think that was a key component of the championship teams. I’m wondering if there’s a good way to quantify it, particularly with regards to Teixeira on the Yankees, beyond just plain stats. Thanks.
Oh, and in case you haven’t figured it out yet, the pressure the fine folks at WFAN were talking about was not the pressure of being the only big bat in the lineup, it was the “head case” variety of pressure that Alex applies to himself as the single biggest story in the Yankee clubhouse on a daily basis.
As confirmed by the obsessive coverage of him by this very blog.
I think Daniel is on to something. How can we explain the double standards? No, Manny is not a saint, but are all these other players?
Damon, Matsui, Nady, all in walk years, Damon, Matsui, Nady, all fighting for AB’s against Manny.. OMG!! Their level of play would increase and the Yankees would benefit.. another great reason to bring in Manny.. he makes everyone around him better in every means!!
First of all I really dont think the question is Manny the question is wheather or not we are going to try to put together a team for 5-7 years or just 2-3 years. Youth is the way to go here, Tex is the better sign not only is he young but he bats switch plays damn near gold glove first base and doesnt have a big head like manny does. Our big moves this year should have been CC and Tex and let the elders go and maybe we could pick up a bat mid-season like a Prince Fielder.
Wow. Just wow.
Ya trade Cano for Kemp(which isnt happening EVER) and then sign Hudson( over rated batted over .300 once) Whos alot older than Cano would prolly earn more $$ than Cano so not a bargain. So then we have a surplus of OFs so when legit OFs who we could use like Crawford/Holliday for examples are free agents we may not be able to sign them and when Hudson is on the decline you all will say we need a YOUNG second baseman. Keep Cano because why get older at a spot where we have a good player, and wait til we can fill the outfielders spot with free agents. Also I hope Jackson is the real deal but we can not bank on that guys. We need TEX OR MANNY and No cameron.
I would not summarily dismiss the “ethnicity” issue.
I’ve observed that Manny Ramirez is a reprehensible human being, but he can hit like a sunuvagun. I think his stay in New York would be entertaining, as we’d read in Pete’s commentary, and I wonder what the guy looks like after a haircut.
Bring him on. The Yankees are bigger than Manny Ramirez, just as we were bigger than Gary Sheffield and vintage Reggie Jackson. The argument that a team wins with pitching, not hitting, is now moot. We have the pitching this year, and that will be true whether we sign Manny or not.
Manny-being-Manny was a Boston thing. Tell him it will not move to the Bronx with him.
Billy first I sorta agree I love TEX he fits well into the Yanks system I think, however you were wrong with saying we need a team for 5-7 years and then say maybe trade for Prince. Do you know what it would take to trade for Prince prolly young guys that would help us in years to come like Austin Jackson,Hughes,Brackman, etc. Fielder would be a great addition someday when hes on the market. Id be happy with either Manny or Tex. Both would help us win in 2009 and 2010.
I guess if one looks at it purley as an issue of ethics then one can say there is a double standard.
The Tex domino is expected to fall soon.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp
Billy,
Based on what they’ve done to date, they are planning mainly for the next three years. CC has his 3 year opt-out, Burnett will then be 35, Jeter 38, A-rod 37, and both Posada and Mo will be gone. This team, with or without Manny, is structured to “do it in 3″.
Honktwice
December 17th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
The Yanks should sign Tex, and trade Matsui to Seattle for Washburn (just as good a leftie as Pettite, but much younger).
This would trade Matsui’s salary for a #5 pitcher which they need anyway, and then use Swicher in LF, Nady in RF, Gardner in CF and use Damon in DH.
That would solve all the Yank’s problems. Why worry about the budget in three years? The economy will crash by then.
——
This trade makes way too much sense. I have been saying all along to trade Matsui and eat pat of his salary.
I would make this trade and eat part of Matsuis salary as well.
Then I would sign Tex or Manny. If Tex then Damon is the DH and our defense is way better.
If Manny then Damon stays in LF and Manny is DH.
Either way if we sign one of them Matsui has to go so this is the best place to send him and Washburn makes a lot of sense for 1 yr.
Best scenario I have seen yet.
Cmon Cash, get Tex.
“Right. A-Rod had one of the most ridiculous offensive seasons in the history of baseball in 2007. You know who hit behind him on most days? Hideki Matsui with a bad knee.”
Exactly Pete … I’ve made this same statement in answering people that I am disagreeing with about getting Manny on the YES Boards. Thanks for standing so firm about not wanting Manny on the Yankees … I just can’t believe that people are pushing them into a false amnesia just because they feel such a dire need for a big bat. I want a big bat also, but I don’t want to cut my nose to spite my face … and Manny has absolutely no character whatsoever … and a lot of the people that want him complain about A-Rod … A-Rod is going to look like a saint next to what Manny will put the team through!
NO to manny … yes to holliday next year …
NO FRIGGIN WAY.
He is the anti-Jeter, it ain’t worth the production.
Manny will win over all New York Yankee fans. He will frustrate Red Sox fans pretending to be Yankee fans. Too bad.
100% yes, he wants revenge
Bring on Manny. I have been saying it for months.
Chemistry no good for Girardi? Well, who the hell needs Girardi? Let us go back to plan A and bring on Mattingly as manager. Mattingly worked with Manny in LA and had nothing but the highest praise for him.
mark Feinsand still is on the Manny team, second day counting. http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....anny_.html
Are the Yanks willing to sell their soul? They have to have SOME standards. Like guys who don’t quit on their teams for example.
Pete, can you get the vote results to Hank, Hal and co.
Sports talk radio = giant circle jerk
Yes…(unfortunately).
I really think this is gonna get done. It’s a smart move for the yankees. It be great for baseball and create a huge amount of revenue and attention for a sport that maybe hurt by the sluggish economy.
All this talk about Manny not enjoying the pressure of Boston dosen’t bother me. Any smart Yankee fan will remember the numerous times he’s destroyed us in pressure situations. For a guy that dosen’t like pressure he certainly rose to the occasion anyway. Thats all that matters.
Too many comments to read through everyone, but not only do I not want Manny but as a season ticket holder, if the Yankees were to sign Manny I would not renew my season tickets and as a life long Yankees fan I would also stop watching games & lose respect for the organization if they were to sign them.
Manny is not what the Yankees are about. He’s selfish, lazy, arrogant, and only out for himself. This past season shows that as he faked injury with the Red Sox because he didn’t want to play and only played hard for the Dodgers because he was playing for a contract. He’s only out for himself, personal glory, and money. That is not what the Yankees are about. While, yes the Yankees may be some of the highest paid players in the game, a true Yankee and a true representation of what the organization is about is Derek Jeter, who plays hard–even when injured & you have to fight to sit on the bench or DH–and does not care about his own accomplishments but only the success of the team.
Yes, I will admit Manny is a great player and likely a hall of famer, but there is more to the Yankees and being a Yankee than that and if the Yankees sign him this obsessed fan will lose respect for the organization, a little piece of me will die, and I will have to let go of my fandom for at least his contract if not longer. I also know numerous other fans, many of which are also season ticket holders, who feel the same way.
There is also obviously the argument about why the team needs to get younger rather than focus on players nearing the end of their career and prime, but the issues addressed above tend to be the ones that get to me the most.
I don’t know why the above “x-ed” out, I guess autoformatting where you want to use dashes to insert a thought rather than parenthesis or commas, anyway the thought was supposed to read:
a true representation of what the organization is about is Derek Jeter, who plays hard, even when injured & you have to fight him to sit on the bench or DH, and does not care about his own accomplishments but only the success of the team.
From an ex Hudson Valley oldtimer , No.
Those of you complaining that he quit on his team, think; What team did he quit on? Redsox!
What team did he quit against? Right, Yankees! That makes me 100% YES!!!