Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 19, 2008 
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Sam Borden writes that despite initial appearances, CC Sabathia will be comfortable in New York.
A.J. Burnett believes injuries are a thing of the past for him. This notebook also has updates on the WBC status of the new guys, moves to be made and some numerology.
————
Bad news for the conspiracy theorists as Brian Cashman has gone on the record saying the Yankees have not bid for Mark Teixeira and are not the reason Boston has supposedly backed off.
One way or another, we will soon get some insight into what is really important for Teixeira.
Meanwhile, it sounds like the Yankees and Andy Pettitte will come to some sort of deal before Christmas. I believe that would be their final major free-agent signing. Perhaps there is a Secret Manny Plan somewhere in the organization. But I don’t think Hal Steinbrenner retained Brian Cashman with the intent of not listening to him.
IT’S A BEAUTIFUL DAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD !
Get home safely, everybody !!!
Let it snow
Let it snow
Let it snow
c’mon nats! this is a challenge to your manhood! you are a nothing franchise and will remain so unless you do something to change things now. dont let anybody outbid you for tex, he’s a boras boy, so as long as you are putting up top dollar, you are the favorite.
git er done bowden or remain the joke franchise of the N.L.
Pettite for Christmas….that’s awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So:
CC the savior
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba and various buddies
I could live with that
Pete — ive seen a trade proposal ( can’t remember where) but ill look . . Matsui for Andrew Jones.. Have you heard anything on this ??
Love snow days
“CC the savior
Burnett
Wang
Sheets (It’s Dec. 19th Andy I’m forgetting you)
Joba”
matsui for andruw jones? jones cant play period. he was healthy and on the bench almost all of last season. he’s owed $18.1M. i dont see it.
“Pete— ive seen a trade proposal ( can’t remember where) but ill look . . Matsui for Andrew Jones.. Have you heard anything on this ??”
It was on Joel Shermans blog.
“matsui for andruw jones?”
hellllll nooooo.
damnit, at least some people get to stay home today. but no i have to head out to the city later.
thanks guys . .Yes it was Shermans Post . .Matsui for Andrew Jones .. Maybe NY will revive Jones. . cant be anyworse than Melky
I have said this for months.
Sign Rocco Baldelli.
He will be cheap and he’s immensely talented. Use him every other day if that’s his limit and he’ll still put up good numbers.
i wouldnt trade matui’s sketch of his fiancee for jones.
yankees brass working out a fair offer for andruw jones:
eiland: well, we’ve got 8 bags of lightly used balls
long: and i’ve still got a ton of probably- not-broken-but-we’re-not-sure maple bats, damon model
hank: does he smoke? i can get him a couple of cartons a month.
levine: we bought all new office furnature for the new stadium, this stuff is still pretty good!
“Sign Rocco Baldelli.”
Nothings changed w/ him, all he has is a misdiagnosis he still physically can’t play day to day w/o health concerns. Nothing has changed again nothing has changed w/ him physically.
CC the savior
Burnett
Wang
Sheets (It’s Dec. 19th Andy I’m forgetting you)
Joba
—————-
I could live with that too!
CC is in Central Park right now making a snow angel
Andruw Jones is awful!! He hit .200 last year. I’d rather have Brett in CF hitting .200.
i knew it was about time for a “the yankees arent getting manny” post from pete. Thanks grinch.
Peter,
I must have missed it, but when did Cashman actually say, or even suggest, that he “did not want Manny”. The only managerial voice that
I have heard to date was your audio of Girardi at Torre’s affair in which he said ” who wouldn’t want him in the lineup, he’s a HOF hitter”.
Thank you.
But Jones wasn’t healthy last year. He came in to camp chubby and with a balky knee. He had surgery and is currently playing in the Dominican leagues.
He makes 18 mil next year. Matsui makes 13. It’s a riskier move than Cameron but with a much higher reward if lightning is indeed caught.
On the other side it doesn’t make much sense for the Dodgers as Matsui is also pretty risky but even more so in the NL as he has to play left.
Rocco Baldelli isn’t going to be signed because Gardner or Melky serve as your 4th outfielder.
“He hit .200 last year.”
…if only that were true….
in fact he hit .158 last year. in 200 ab’s (which was all they could stand to watch.)
it was the year before he hit .200 (okay .222)!
I would take Jones from 10 years ago.
Wow I overstated it by that much!! He was worse than I thought!
There is still talk about getting Jones? Unbelievable. Why in the world would the Yankees pay Jones $18 million to be awful (in exchange for Matsui, no less) when they could pay Cameron $10 million to be above-average (for just Melky)?
It’s insane any journalist would float this rumor, and even crazier that any fan would think there is any truth to it.
Peter and Ken (“I wouldn’t bet a penny on either Tex or Manny coming to the Yankees”)Davidoff of Newsday are on a two man crusade to keep Manny out of pinstripes.
jennifer,
he began to “suck” after his drop off of his 41 homers season. I think it took a toll on him after he hitted 50 homers in 2005, and 41 homers in 2006. He’s no A-Rod for sure.
“i knew it was about time for a “the yankees arent getting manny” post from pete. Thanks grinch.”
LOL
Pete will be saying that there is no way the Yankees are getting Manny right up until he is introduced as the newest Yankees at own press conference … even then he will have his doubts.
what does it say about jones that after he had a subpar walk year, he came into camp for his brand-new team fat and basically unprepared for the season?
Sorry to beat a dead horse but …
Jones had a 88 OPS+ in 2007, a huge drop in productivity from the previous year, and a 34 OPS+ in 2008. 2008 was not some fluke. Jones’s ability has dropped into the abyss.
The whole reason the Dodgers gave him 2 years/$36 million was because Jones was a big risk with high upside. The Dodgers lost their gamble and are stuck with year 2 of Jones, who is not even a starting OF anymore, let alone a CF. The thought that the Yankees would want to bail the Dodgers out of their bad bet and give up ANYTHING in return for Jones in ludicrous. If the Yankees did that, the next step logical step would be to take that pesky Zito contract off the Giants’ hands.
disco stu,
“That’s a Manny look-a-like…some guy/girl Levine got from a pajama party in the Heights last night….boy, Cash sure has some sense of humor….now let’s get back to reality, where’s Abreu?”
Just dropping by to say if you’re a Yankee fan, you wish you could be me today. I wish you could be around the funereal atmosphere surrounding the news that there will be no Teixeira in any Suxy Christmas stocking!!!
Priceless.
There ARE joys associated with living in the Sux back yard. Well, many actually. Really, lots and lots and lots. I can think of 26 off hand…
And Yankee fans who were living and dying on this Tex going to Boston thing did it to themselves because I seriously never heard that the Sux were going to be big players in this thing. That was really more fan driven.
Anyway, be safe and warm everyone. I’m at working waiting for the first snowflake to fly so I can do the same thing.
“The thought that the Yankees would want to bail the Dodgers out of their bad bet and give up ANYTHING in return for Jones in ludicrous. ”
Kei Igawa to the Dodgers? Will someone please take this bum off the team?
if my memory serves me im pretty sure in jones’s 41 HR 2006 campaign, he had around 28 homers at the all-star break and then the slide really began in the 2nd half of that season.
Trisha,
you be safe too.
Pete, I hope you’re right on Manny and wrong on Tex. My sense is that you’re right on both.
I went to my first Yankees game in 1963 and I’ve seen any number of fools and clowns don the pinstripes but somehow bringing that clown Manny in here would be a wrong that would transcend all the excellent baseball reasons for doing so. Watching those people at F’way cheer for that bozo somehow made me feel better about this momentary shift in the relative positions of the franchises. No way am I a Sawx fan on any level however we cannot deny the place that organization has in the lore of ML baseball in America. If nothing else they are the respected enemy. What Manny did there by dogging to get out of his contract was simply unforgivable on many levels. We should not be seen to reward that behavior. We should not be forced to root for him. He’s much better left to villain status around these parts. Please Pass.
ed- It also seemed to coincide with the testing program.
Ed,
If there’s any truth to the rumor that the Brewers would take Igawa and Melky for Cameron (which I doubt), that’s a much better solution for you (and every other Yankee fan).
believe it or not, you may have hit upon the impossible!
you have actually created a straight-up trade for igawa that i would decline!
there is no way i would give them igawa for jones. it would cost the yankees $5M and waste a space on the bench and on the 40 man.
AMEN BILL PORTER!
hey bill, you beat me, i went to my 1st in 1964!
Davidoff is such a kill joy.
I do think he has some great insights but he just always seems to take the negative/depressing angle in everything. Like when we got CC, he made a point to stress not to get too comfortable because it’s a 3 year marriage and he wants to go back West then. Or when we signed Burnett he said we were neglecting the farm and not giving opportunities to kids.
stottlemyre (rookie) beat the senators!
I looked up the Jones and Igawa contracts on Cot’s for kicks.
Igawa is owed $12 million total through 2011.
Jones is owed $15 million in 2009. Plus he has $7.1 million due in deferred signing bonus money in 2009 and 2010. So if I understand that correctly, Jones is still due over $22 million!
So if we offered Igawa for Jones straight up, the Dodgers would leap at the deal even if Igawa never pitched another major league inning, as it would save the Dodgers somewhere between $3 and 10 million.
If that’s not bad enough, Jones has a no-trade clause, which would make the deal even more expensive for the Yankees, as they would bear the cost of paying Jones to waive it.
Since the deal is essentially trading one worthless player for another, neither team would make it because neither would ever agree to eat Jones’s salary.
Sometimes, teams are just stuck with their bad contracts. The Dodgers are stuck with Jones; at least they only signed him for another year. The Yankees are probably stuck with Igawa; at least they’ve already sunk most of his cost.
trish – I usually try not to gloat over someone else’s troubles – but this time I’ll make an exception! (lol)
Safe travels, to you and everyone, on this stormy day.
Jermey,
that what I was thinking, the Dodgers would be happy to take on Igawa’s contract. it saves them money! never the less, I still wouldn’t trade for Jones.
mantle (cf) and teddy ballgame (wash mgr) in the old house! it was like you got to visit heaven!
I actually really like the job that Ned Colletti has done in LA… but that Jones deal was a bad call from the get-go. The only positive thing to come out of it, is that it made most people forget about the Pierre signing. And for what it’s worth, the trade he made for Casey Blake completely turned that team around… not Manny. That was a great move.
Bill Porter
December 19th, 2008 at 11:33 am
“Pete, I hope you’re right on Manny and wrong on Tex. My sense is that you’re right on both.
I went to my first Yankees game in 1963 and I’ve seen any number of fools and clowns don the pinstripes but somehow bringing that clown Manny in here would be a wrong that would transcend all the excellent baseball reasons for doing so. Watching those people at F’way cheer for that bozo somehow made me feel better about this momentary shift in the relative positions of the franchises. No way am I a Sawx fan on any level however we cannot deny the place that organization has in the lore of ML baseball in America. If nothing else they are the respected enemy. What Manny did there by dogging to get out of his contract was simply unforgivable on many levels. We should not be seen to reward that behavior. We should not be forced to root for him. He’s much better left to villain status around these parts. Please Pass.”
Bill Porter -
Good for you! Exactly right. BTW, my first game was in the old stadium in 1969. Yankees took an early lead, held it to almost the end, and Bobby Cox(!) booted an easy one to let the White Sox tie the game. Chicago won in 11. I’ve still never really forgiven Bobby Cox …
so its unanimous! us old goats dont want manny!
too bad we’ve passed out of that demographic anybody gives a crap about!
Interesting quote from one Torri Hunter on Tex and the Angels
Later in the evening, Hunter, who tried to call Teixeira this week and sent him a text-message Thursday night, felt a lot more confident about the Angels’ chances of retaining Teixeira.
“What the Angels did was spectacular, they gave him an offer that blew everyone away, and it shows how badly they want this guy,” Hunter said. “I’m so happy they did that. I can sleep better at night. We can’t let Tex go. He’s very special on this team.”
http://www.latimes.com/sports/.....?track=rss
I don’t think the Jones deal was dumb at the time. The market for CFs is crazy. Coletti gambled that Jones would bounce back to something like his 2006 form, which wasn’t unreasonable, and lost. He avoided a truly catastrophic move by getting Jones to agree to just two years. No one predicted that Jones would eat his way out of a starting job.
The Gary Matthews, Jr. signing was far worse, both now and at the time it was made.
Don’t celebrate the Sox out of talks just yet. Don’t buy that for a second.
Btw…
Didn’t Jeter say he would never call a player to “sell him New York”?
Didn’t CC say Jeter called him a couple times and said NY is a great place to play?
Teixeira, while a dream to have in pinstripes, is going back to the Angels. I’m fine with that. At least I can still like him. If he went to the Sox I’d never root for him again.
All I know, is I know we have the dream rotation. But we can’t go into the season with that offense.. Were relying on way to much of Posada, Matsui,Cano.Cabrera/Gardner, and Swisher..
I want Manny’s bat on the Yankees. I want no part of Manny-being-Manny on the Yankees.
Jeremy —
There’s no law that would require the Yanks to pay the deferred money OR a premium for waiving a no-trade.. that’s all negotiable. I would consider Matsui AND Igawa for Jones and a young arm. Then I would sign Adam Dunn to DH.
Cash works out pretty well and when you give Jones a physical you’ll know if he lost the 30 pounds or so he started putting on in the summer of ’06.
Best case scenario, Jones is in great shape and revives his career at age 32. Worst case scenario, he’s fat, his knees hurt and you void the deal because he fails the physical!
that said, signing Baldelli as a part time CF to share the postion with Gardner or Melky and adding Ty Wigginton for a 1B/DH combo would make a lot more sense to me. As I pointed out on the last thread you end up with seven guys for five jobs….
Swisher, Damon, Matsui, Nady, Gardner OR Melky, Wigginton, Baldelli combine to handle 1B, DH and OF. You always have two very good players on the bench.
Pitching is not everyhting — and perhaps without the exception of the King and his Court — fielders help
Unless there is something wrong with his character Not getting an asset like Teixeira when he is available is remarkably inept management.
Investment ought to be made in best of breed – the problem is often in identifying best – with Teixeira that is not an issue.
Pay the money — fill the position and move on to fix the OF, Catcher, bench, and soon SS.
Or wait and fix these simultaneously with quality not equal to Teixeira
If Cashman fails here he is adding to the burden – not relieving it and the Yankees will finish 2009 and 2010 out of the play-offs while the pitchers lose 40 games 2-1 1-0 4-3 games and the combinations in between.
OFFENSE
Jeter is not going to revert to 2007 – 2005 form. he is aging – no amount of love wil stem the process – he already is 38 yr old Cal Ripken in the field- at 34.
Cano is done – mno one will throw him a strike
Posada wil not be the cather he was and may not be able to go 140 games anywhere. Find atheletes who have had such extensive surgery and compare the before and after stats — then narrow th filed to those over 36/37/. Jorge is a fervent hope – but that is not a plan.
Nady – may or may not be an offensive player -
Matsui – may hit off his rehabbed kne – like jeter is no going to revert to 2005 form
Damon is streaky – lovable but no arm and abd knees, feet, calves — legs abandon him
Gardner speed, stike zone judgement – he needs a stroke that will propel the ball not slap it
“The Gary Matthews, Jr. signing was far worse, both now and at the time it was made.”
I agree with that due to the terms of the Matthews deal. As far as Jones goes, they didn’t need another CF, they had an outfield of Pierre, Kemp, and Ethier. What they really needed, is what they’ve needed for the past decade, is what they eventually got in Manny. A stud hitter, not a “hope he can rebound despite his laziness” guy.
Com’on Tex sign w/ LAA so we can sign Dunn. I’m still waiting for the Dunn offer.
or Washington (sorry I’m surprisingly gleeful today)
You know, it’s ironic that CC’s first choice was probably LAA, but they needed offense and Tex’s choice is probably us, but we needed pitching. I’d feel sorry for these guys if they weren’t going to be richer than God.
I think if the Angels get Tex, Bowden will be turning all that Nats money towards Dunn, and the price will get to a level where he’s no longer the bargain that he’s seen as now. If Washington lands Tex, however, that could be interesting. Dunn isn’t really the Angels’ type of player, and Dunn’s market could remain pretty thin.
“You know, it’s ironic that CC’s first choice was probably LAA, but they needed offense and Tex’s choice is probably us, but we needed pitching. I’d feel sorry for these guys if they weren’t going to be richer than God.”
Back in my day (hold for dentures, ok I’m back) 180 million dollars could only buy you two sticks of juicy fruit.
As a couple of stories this morning indicate, the Red Sox are not out of the Teixeira sweepstakes. Henry just said the Sox aren’t moving off of their original offer.
The smart money is he stil lands there, unless the Angels bid is that much better than the Sox. He’s not going to the Nationals. Tex is an image conscious player and the perception if he goes to the Nats will be that he’s simply a money grubber.
Brandon,
hmm you okay today? or you jus in a happy mood now?
I’m in a great mood I don’t care where he goes, he can appear in TB or BOS for all I care.
CC
AJ
Wang
TBA
Joba
Lets Go !
“There’s no law that would require the Yanks to pay the deferred money OR a premium for waiving a no-trade.. that’s all negotiable.”
There’s no law, but the Dodgers wouldn’t make the deal unless they could profit from it on a purely monetary basis. They players wouldn’t entice them. Matsui would have little value to any NL team as he can’t field and doesn’t hit like Bonds. The Dodgers won’t pay to see if Igawa suddenly becomes a Major League pitcher in the NL.
“I would consider Matsui AND Igawa for Jones and a young arm. Then I would sign Adam Dunn to DH.”
We would be paying a lot of money for that young arm. I don’t see it. No problem with Dunn as DH though.
“Cash works out pretty well and when you give Jones a physical you’ll know if he lost the 30 pounds or so he started putting on in the summer of ‘06.
Best case scenario, Jones is in great shape and revives his career at age 32. Worst case scenario, he’s fat, his knees hurt and you void the deal because he fails the physical!”
Worst case scenario is that he passes the physical and is crap.
“that said, signing Baldelli as a part time CF to share the postion with Gardner or Melky and adding Ty Wigginton for a 1B/DH combo would make a lot more sense to me. As I pointed out on the last thread you end up with seven guys for five jobs….
Swisher, Damon, Matsui, Nady, Gardner OR Melky, Wigginton, Baldelli combine to handle 1B, DH and OF. You always have two very good players on the bench.”
Agree 100%. Makes perfect sense to me.
“CC
AJ
Wang
TBA
Joba”
i second that.
Teixeira will sign with the Angels. After trading Casey Kotchman to get him last July and not signing K-Rod and longtime favorite Garrett Anderson, Artie Moreno just can’t come up empty. There would be no protection for Vladimir.
“In this particular negotiation, the Sox’ actions are a little curious. Until now, the Sox have refrained from publicly acknowledging an interest in Teixeira, let alone the existence of a colossal offer to him. (On more than one occasion this winter, Epstein has said that the Sox have a policy of keeping these things private.) Now Henry is sending out blast e-mails in time for the 11 o’clock news — what a coincidence, eh? — which certainly suggests that the Sox are using the media as leverage against Boras. None of that reflects especially well on all of us who live (and work) in a supersaturated media world, where we are so eager to get the story that we have become pawns in multimillion dollar negotiations between absurdly wealthy athletes, agents, owners, and executives who are all trying to perpetuate their particular agenda.
As to whether the Sox actually need Teixeira, do not let them fool you. They wouldn’t be in this thing, prepared to shell out close to $200 million, because they thought he might be fun to play with. The current Sox operators are businessmen to the nth degree, plain and simple. Epstein can sit there all he wants, as he did at the end of the season, and insist that the Sox are not “desperate” for anything. But when the club then goes out and offers the biggest contract in team history to a player on the open market, the team’s actions belie its words.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/c.....again.html
“The smart money is he stil lands there, unless the Angels bid is that much better than the Sox. He’s not going to the Nationals. Tex is an image conscious player and the perception if he goes to the Nats will be that he’s simply a money grubber.”
You don’t really believe that he’s worried he’ll be thought of as a money grabber do you? He already turned down a huge contract offer from Texas in order to get more money in free agency.
You don’t sign Scott Boras as an agent unless you have hopes of making the most money possible. If the Nationals offer a deal over 200mil and they’re the only club to do so you can guarantee that Tex will be across the diamond from Ryan Zimmerman in 2009.
It’s delusional to think that the Yankees don’t need a big bat still. The offense, which isn’t getting any younger, might decline even further, something scary if you consider we scored nearly 200 less runs than the year before.
It doesn’t necessarily has to be Mr. Teixeira, since he seems to be a bit pricey, but why not a guy like Dunn? It would improve the offense by a lot, and it wouldn’t cost that much really.
As per Brian Cashman’s plan to get younger and more atheletic is a solid and needed course……Oh by the way, there’s a 28 year old 1B who can fill that void for years to come……And he’s quite good……
great staff..but the team needs to score runs…who will protect Arod in the lineup? wheres the left power bat?
i don’t understand the obsession with protecting a-rod.. since when do teams pitch around him in a big spot?
the problem is that teams go right after him and he chokes. the problem is a-rod, not who’s hitting after him
Hopefully what Burnett said about his approach to pitching, and is health, training & taking care of himself, will continue to show benefits. That seems to be the difference between the guy who’s got about a .500 career record and the shut-down guy we faced last year.
It would be interesting, with the Carl Pavano fiasco now behind us, if Carl had at least a tiny degree of influence on Burnett coming here. (“… only listen to SOME of what Carl says”) And of course, opinions on Carl’s influence would switch to the polar opposite if AJ ever goes down with an injury.
Dunn stinks and I hope there is ZERO chance he is a Yankee. JP Riccardi hit it on the head when he ripped Dunn last year. It wasn’t the classy thing to do by JP but he was spot on. Watching Dunn through the years as well as knowing many Reds fans who think he is the worst ever, the Yanks better stay away.
The offense as of right now is ok but def not near Boston’s or perhaps some other teams.
Should be interesting to see if Cashman could maybe get creative for the 1st time in his career and pull off a trade for a hitter.
Signing Tex would be the best move but I guess they have to live by the bogus number they start off with every year.
I read that Torri Hunter had talked to Tex and told him the Angles made an offer that just blew him away. I still say he ends up in Boston.
if jeter and damon get on base teams will have to pitch to arod
Talk about two ends of the spectrum mood wise right now for each fan base of the Yanks and Sox. You guys announce two studs yesterday and the Sox brass fly to Texas and learn that they are not going to the prom with the captain of the cheerleading squad.
The only positives right now in my world is that it is Friday and I out kicked my coverage when I married over my head 10 years ago…
BTW, I would bet that Burnett out performs CC in the first few years of their contracts. He has as nasty stuff as anyone in the game.
-dennis
“Investment ought to be made in best of breed – the problem is often in identifying best – with Teixeira that is not an issue.”
You’re absolutely right – there is no question that teixeira is not even remotely close to being the “best in breed” first baseman in baseball.
If only signing “best in breed” is the right thing to do then the yanks will need to wait until around 2012 when pujols may hit the market.
The distance between pujols and Tex is close to as large as the distance between tex and a slightly above league average first baseman.
People who are pushing tex tend to lose sight of what his true talent is.
He’s not close to “best in breed.”. He’s not pujols – he’s not even one of the top 5 players in the game. He might not even be top 10.
He’s the best player available now but that does not make him “best in breed” by any means.
“the problem is that teams go right after him and he chokes. the problem is a-rod, not who’s hitting after him”
Sorry, but you are wrong about this. The problem isn’t A-Rod. The problem is that since he doesn’t have anyone threatening batting behind him, the pitchers don’t have to throw him anything good to hit. As such, they throw him garbage or stuff he shouldn’t be swinging at. A-Rod, feeling pressured to do it all himself, feels that he has no choice and swings at crap, thus leaving men on base. If there were a more formidable hitter behind A-Rod, my guess is that most pitchers would take their chances trying to get him out so that they wouldn’t have to face the guy behind him (especially if Alex is up with 2 outs).
“He’s the best player available now but that does not make him “best in breed” by any means.”
thank you, thank you, thank you
“Watching Dunn through the years as well as knowing many Reds fans who think he is the worst ever, the Yanks better stay away.”
What Reds fans did you talk to ?
CB, that is right on the money re: Tex.
Also, if the Yanks are possibly going after Manny, Bonds said he is not retired. I never thought I would say this, but Bonds may be the lesser headache of the two. I don’t know if there is anything left in his tank, but he may be worth considering if we are going down the Ramirez path.
Ya know … I’m OK with Swisher playing first base but it would be kinda cool if the Evil Empire swooped down out of nowhere, call a press conference with no indication of what it’s about, then surprise everyone by introducing Tiexiera. Of course they’d HAVE to have some Darth Vader theme music in the background at the press conference.
Now THAT would take some pressure off A-Rod when the Yanks go to Fenway, wouldn’t it?
“He’s the best player available now but that does not make him “best in breed” by any means.”
If we are talking by position, I think that Tex is in the Top 5 1B guys in the game.
I want Manny who cares about Tex.
Top first Basemen (not necessarily in order):
Pujols
Berkman
Morneau
Ryan Howard
Adrian Gonzalez
Youkilis
Teixeira
Miguel Cabrera
Carlos Pena
Prince Fielder
Manny is the best player available. He shows no perceptible decline, and is a man among boys offensively in this free agent group. The sum of Texeira, good as he is, doesn’t add up to Manny’s bat.
What a great day the Sux aren’t getting Tex and we got the 2 best pitchers available!
“Now THAT would take some pressure off A-Rod when the Yanks go to Fenway, wouldn’t it?”
Has A-Rod played badly in Fenway? I remember more big hits than bad moments there.
Getting CC and AJ while monumental signings, were easy fishing for Cash considering the size of the bait he used.
Getting Tex would also be about the money but Cash could play into where Tex really wants to be. A trip to the new stadium as a recruiting ploy should be in order.
Losing Tex due to money hopefully doesn’t become the Cash legacy along with Beltran.
We still need 1 more bat and he is a better long term investment than Manny and is a better solution than Dunn.
JMO
Manny would be a perfect fit in the line-up if we could get rid of Matsui. I still think Manny could play 50 games in the field if need be.
Let’s not forget that the Phils won the world series with Pedro Feliz, Jayson Werth, and Carlos Ruiz in the lineup. That’s:
1) a role player with some power and NO OBP skills
2) talented guy who always seems to be battling injuries
3) a catcher who broke into the big leagues at 27, and didn’t get a full-time job until a year later.
We’d be panicking if those guys were in our lineup.
“If we are talking by position, I think that Tex is in the Top 5 1B guys in the game.”
I never said he wasn’t.
And by that logic the top 5 players at every position would deserve 200M deals when they hit the market.
I think he’s definitely top 3 at first base.
But that’s not “best in breed.”
And when you are talking 200M there’s a real argunent to be made that top 3 at your position is not enough.
The yanks didn’t give arod his 10 year deal because he was one of the 5 best third baseman. They gave it to him because he was unquestionnably one of the 3 best players in the game.
That’s a huge difference.
And that’s why this isn’t such a slam dunk signing given the teams other committments.
If pujols hits the market and the yankees didn’t write him a check for whatever he wanted that would be crazy.
But top 5 at your position simply suggests you may be one of the top 40 players in the game and not neccessarily one of the “best in breed”
Wang
cc
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba
I can live with this HAA
Re: Matsui / Andruw Jones …
Jones has been outta shape and an embarrassment to himself. Partly because he was injured but he’s supposedly healthy again.
Matsui’s been injured and he’s supposedly healthy again too. But Matsui never became a fat chunk like Andruw, and he still did OK when he could play hurt. Andruw played and hit .200 for more than a year. Matsui was still within range of his typical numbers when he could play through it.
Jones is getting himself in shape for before his next contract. Matsui is too.
Matsui’s got his strong points, but Jones is the superior talent. We all saw him play from the time he was 19 and he’s obviously a rare talent. If Jones can show he even resembles the younger version of himself this coming season, he could become the better bet for 3-5 years. Then he’d be worth considering as a FA. But the guy really let himself go.
For this coming year I’d feel more optimistic with the Matsui comeback than the Jones comeback. We already have him for the year … I’d rather stick with Matsui for the year. He’s about $5mil less expensive too, isn’t he? No sense in trading someone away now when you have a year to see how Andruw does while someone else pays him $18M, and then he’s a FA.
“Manny would be a perfect fit in the line-up if we could get rid of Matsui.”
On Xbox 360? Yes. In real world? No.
Something’s bothering me about this Henry/Teixeira thing.
Did Henry think he was close to a deal?
Henry’s comments after the trip were strange. Most GM’s/owners would say they had a great meeting, were still interested but it might be a little too rich for their blood type of talk.
But Henry sounded jilted. Dumped. It’ll end up being a stroke of genius or a total embarrassment.
But if Henry’s not willing to move off the 8/160, we should at least make an offer. Play with the numbers if you have to.
Not really caring for Tex to the Angels either.
Pat –
“Now THAT would take some pressure off A-Rod when the Yanks go to Fenway, wouldn’t it?”
I think A-Rod’s played fine in Fenway. I was thinking more along the lines of the reception he gets there. After he came so close to going to the Sox before the Yanks swooped in and snagged him, the Yankees were dubbed ‘The Evil Empire’ by Red Sox ownership and A-Rod’s been hated with a vigorous, unbridled passion there ever since.
If Tiexiera did the same thing and the two batted consecutively in our lineup, Fenway would go berzerk every time they batted.
Let’s not forget that the Phils won the world series with Pedro Feliz, Jayson Werth, and Carlos Ruiz in the lineup. That’s:
1) a role player with some power and NO OBP skills
2) talented guy who always seems to be battling injuries
3) a catcher who broke into the big leagues at 27, and didn’t get a full-time job until a year later.
We’d be panicking if those guys were in our lineup.
___________________
Good point…perhaps depth is more important than having all-stars at every position….
CB,
I left you a note last night…
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-621094
CB
I agree to a point
“He’s the best player available now but that does not make him “best in breed” by any means.”
I might just add that he’s The best player available now- who happens to be a 1b, which is a position of need for the Yankees. That used to mean a surefire Yankee target. When you need something, it should hold more value to you.
Swish was a good pick-up because of his versatility. Not to declare him our 1b for 2009. And who will be his back-up Miranda? Having a weak offensive 1B and CF seems too risky to me.
Tex plays great defense, will “protect” Arod, and makes the need for an offensive CF much less important. It will give Giradi plenty of flexability in moving Swish, Damon, Nady, Gardner/Melky around the OF.
It also will save us at least 1,maybe 2 roster spots in not having to keep Miranda, and both Melky and Gardner. I know the cost is high, but will we say that in a couple of years?
Tarheelyank
Of course we need Tex…and he would be a perfect fit
But we just inked players to 243.5mil worth of contracts..
Are the Yankees really audacious enough to sign Tex or Manny too?
I dont think so…
Mel
Will answer that later. Bit busy right now and that’ll take some thinking.
Very good question as I’m sure that’s exactly what the team has been thinking about for the past two years before resigning the players last off season and thinking what to do this winter.
CB,
I’m not sure I agree with your analysis about “best in breed”.
I’d say Tex clearly ranks only behind Pujols and Berkman in terms of 1b. Those hitters are two of the top five hitters in baseball.
Tex’s career .OPS dwarfs a guy like Morneau and Tex is a better defender.
And Pujols, without question is the best player in the game. However, the gap between Tex and Berkman is very small.
So saying Tex doesn’t deserve a $20 million payday because he’s not the best when compared to those two guys, I think is a little off base. He’s a premier player, capable of consistency that only a handful of guys can produce.
Pujols is a free agent in 2012(I believe) when he will be 32. He would require a similar deal than what Tex is asking for now. While Tex isn’t the hitter that Pujols is, he’s four years younger than Pujols.
I think it would be smarter for a well-positioned team to lock up Tex now so you can get his prime years.
CB,
Haha. Thanks. I knew you were up to the challenge. Like all good businesses, I’m sure the Yankees have their 5-year plans. I’d very interested to see what yours would look like.
mel
Media is making it sound like Henry doesn’t get on the plane unless he’s coming home with the player. Tex didn’t jump on the plane, so to speak, for the return trip and Henry is cranky about it.
I could see Boras telling the Sox that the Yankees showed CC how much he was wanted.
There is no way we can be relying on Posada, Cano, Matsui and Swisher all having great comeback years (and Nady repeating his first half of last season performance for a full year) as the basis of a playoff level offense. It is not going to happen. I doubt sincerely if any one of them can give us 20 homers, 100 rbi’s and 100 runs…oh but who could? Bobby Abreu who the Yankees are treating as if he has bubonic plague.
Abreu’s defensive negatives are far outweighed by all of the offensive numbers, great arm, great eye, ability to run bases, general freedom from injury. Not to mention the fact that he has been a great Yankee, is loved in the clubhouse, provides great cover for Arod in the #3 spot…oh but wait he is 34 and we can’t give a decent contract to a guy that old (except for every other mid-30′s player on the team that we give 6-10 year contracts to)
Don’t fall asleep on this. Henry and Lucchino are known for playing games. This is all about high stakes poker with Boras. So I’m not counting Sox out.
When CC was taking his time making up his mind about coming to New York I suggested the Yanks get creative and offer a deal with an opt-out after two or three years. In the end, I believe that starategy bore fruit.
Now I think that Yanks need to be creative in another way. I don’t think they should jump in with some huge offer on Tex.
But I suspect that Tex really wants to play for the Yanks. So at some point that Yankees need to put an offer on the table. Not the biggest offer. Certainly not more than eight years. But a solid offer. If Tex really wants to play in New York he may over rule Boras and sign. If not, fine, we know he was in it for the last buck and we don’t need to chase him.
I just sense this guy wants us. And we shouldn’t be ignoring the opportunity.
I think my own desire to have Tex on the team right now is more motivated by keeping him from the Red Sox. While I like him as a player, an 8-10 year commitment to him is staggering.
None of us thought Giambi would turn out as bad as it did, but that’s the risk you run.
I’m much more in the “sign Manny” crowd if we sign anyone since it’ll be a short term commitment and it’ll be way more entertaining than Tex who seems a corporate type.
That said, if we end up with Tex somehow I won’t be mad or anything…just think 8 years plus (I don’t care about the dollars) is a lot for a guy who isn’t one of the top 10 players in the game.
pat,
Maybe they should’ve sent Joe-Pa. I hear he’s the best at recruiting.
I agree that Pujols and Teixeira are worlds apart.
Check out the top ten players most similar to Pujols and Teixeira through age 28 on baseball-reference.com. Pujols’s list includes seven HOFers: Foxx, Aaron, Frank Robinson, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, and Ott. Teixeira’s list includes one HOFer (McCovey) and his most similar player is Carlos Delgado.
Pujols is on track to be one of the all time great players, and Teixeira is on track to be a very good player.
The problem for the Yankees is that Teixeira is available now and Pujols isn’t, and Teixeira is demanding all-time great player money even though he’s merely very good.
I’d love to see the Yankees sign Teixeira but I understand that it isn’t exactly shrewd to sign a very good first baseman to one of the biggest contracts ever.
mel
LOL. These agent/player/team sit downs make me think of the line in Pretty Woman when they are in the boutique. I can see Boras saying, “We are going to need lots more sucking up.”
SNOWING IN RHODY! WOO HOO!!!!
Check you out when I get home. Life is good anytime you can leave work early.
we may be seeing john henry’s decline in hedge fund wealth impacting for the first time. it will be very surprising if there’s no upgrading by the red sox to match the sabathia and burnett additions by the yankees.
as buffet says, you don’t see who’s swimming naked until the tide goes out. maybe henry doesn’t have the money people think he has.
“So saying Tex doesn’t deserve a $20 million payday because he’s not the best when compared to those two guys, I think is a little off base.”
Not what I said.
I never mentioned 20M. I referenced 200M. That’s a big difference – the guaranteed money is enormous.
Of course I’d give him 20M.
But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about 200M anf the next decade.
I’m not saying there’s not very compelling reasons to sign him such as team need.
If they signed him I’d be thrilled.
But issues like team need simply don’t change how good tex is.
Pujols you give 350M to and don’t think twice. He’s worth that.
That’s the difference and that was the discussion.
There are some players that are a must get at at all costs. Alex was one last year. CC was one this year.
It’s not nearly as clear cut a case with tex.
Is he one of the ten best players in the game. I’m not sure. Therefore to me its simply not an automatic to pay give him the second largest payday, especially as he doesn’t play a premium position.
That’s all I’ve been arguing in reponse to the idea that he is a must have because he is “best in breed.”
G. Love,
I hear you about Tex.
I felt that way about AJ. It was imperative that we keep Burnett away from Boston. Lucky thing they were targeting Tex, otherwise AJ would’ve cost more.
I don’t feel that Tex is as big a threat on Boston. I felt we needed to get him because we need him. He would really round out this team. I don’t see him as a good fit in Boston, in fact he’s almost a spare part at this point. They’d have to take the car apart and put it back together to make it work. But he’s apparently their franchise guy and were willing to move heaven and earth to get him. But they don’t want to show the love?
When I saw that he wasn’t a real option, I let it go. But until he’s inked…
mel,
Does Manning get the MVP after the performance he had yesterday?
BTW, anyone see C.C. yesterday in pinstripes? I think that tree branch shirt he wore the other day made him look skinnier than he looked in pinstripes.
what the hell does ‘initial appearances’ mean?
does anyone ever expect to say of a new pitcher in a setting as big as NY ….”He looks like he’s been here a hundred years!”
there’s gotta be something more meaningful to write about when a pitcher as good as CC arrives on any team.
Merry Christmas all!
One more thing. The clip that espn had on C.C. explaining why he came to the Yankees wasnt a good sale. I want a player to finally say the truth for once.
Why did you come to the Yanks?
They blew the competition away with the offer they made me and as everyone knows its all about the money.
Just one time.
If the Red Sox dont get Tex and the Dodgers get Manny I could live with our lineup with the kids in CF and Swish at 1B.
But Manny in Anaheim or Tex in either Anaheim or Boston scares me. Id like to add a bat if either team gets a major bat themselves.
“BTW, anyone see C.C. yesterday in pinstripes?”
No we all missed it.
We should do a best offensive players in the game right now – non pitcher list
In no particular order;
Arod
Pujols
Manny Ramirez
Hanley Ramirez
Lance Berkman
Jose Reyes
David Wright
Chase Utley
Matt Holliday
Ichiro
Prince Fielder
Ryan Howard
Jimmy Rollins
Grady Sizemore
Miguel Cabrera
Ryan Braun
I would rate all of those guys above Tex offensively. When defense comes into the equation it changes, but I still wouldn’t put Tex in the top 10.
Heyman on Mike at 3 p.m.
I like Tex, but I don’t think defense and being a switch hitter is necessarily a reason to give him so much money. If there is a way to get creative and give him an early opt-out or something, I am all for it. On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind using that money and picking up Dunn, Baldelli, and Pettitte and there’s the team. Use Matsui as a bench player or, if you can find a taker for some prospects or a good bullpen guy, then do that.
“Does Manning get the MVP after the performance he had yesterday?”
SOS,
Manning definitely made a statement on why he should be MVP last night. the ball was definitely in the Colt’s field. too many miracles were happening.
“Use Matsui as a bench player or”
for the millionth time, Matsui isn’t being traded!!!!
…and he isnt going to the bench.
Randy,
I agree with you on henry. There’s no way his losses in the market aren’t weighing on his mind.
Much of the business model for the modern hedge fund was related to access to leverage. That’s how those massive returns were realized.
Those days are over and without leverage the hedge fund industry will have to reinvent itself.
Bankers will always do fine but this could be painful and there’s no way henry’s not concerned.
SoS,
NO to Peyton for MVP. No one really stands out, but, ugh. No to Peyton.
CC did not do a very good job answering that question. He looked like he wanted to dig a hole and crawl in it. But he aced the rest.
AJ gets my thumbs up for his wit. I can’t decide yet who my favorite pitcher will be. CC is genuine, CMW is a rock, I’m pulling for Hughes. If AJ can stay healthy and pitch like he did in the second half of ’08. I might have to say him. He’s like a little kid.
Someone sent me a video clip of A-Rod working out in Miami this week taking ground balls from his knees.
I know that’s a set-up for a dozen good jokes but does anyone seriously know what that helps with?
Henry and crew flying to Texas was only a charade to have their fanbase think they were making every attempt to negotiate in good faith with Scott Boras.
John Henry has fallen into the group of owners that see the economy as reason to keep payroll in check and said as much in his e-mail. They need to make moves but not with the impact of signing Mark Teixeira.
“We should do a best offensive players in the game right now – non pitcher list
In no particular order;
Manny Ramirez”
You’re joking, right? Manny is one of the worst LFers in the game today.
Imagine the welcome Manny would get as a Yankee in Fenway – un’freakin’believable. They’d have to bring in the Nat’l Guard with those uber-exuberant sox fans since he “did them so wrong.”
Good times.
“But, Aleeeexx. That’s how we did it in the movie.”
In picking up on this “best in breed vs. best available” disussion, it would also be similar to say it is a “talent vs. timing” discussion.
With that in mind, it’s important to remember that the Yankee Farm System is currently barren with Position Player Talent READY to play at the MLB Level – the ONLY exception being OF Austin Jackson who MIGHT be able to contribute in 2010.
SO – with that as a given – the only other way we are going to definitely improve ourselves at any Position over the next two years is either through a Trade or by signing Free Agents.
Since the Yankees do have the “Power of the Checkbook” in our favor with Free Agents, it’s important for us to use that Power wisely.
But it is also important to know WHO you can use that Power on – and WHEN.
Did anybody see the List of Potential Free Agents after next Season that was posted on MLBTR yesterday?
If this is one of the two ways that we can improve ourselves at any Position – or with a “Bat” (ie: a DH) – then it is NOT a very pretty picture at all!!
Everybody seems to be clamoring for improving / replacing 1B, CF, RF & LF ASAHP (and there is no doubt that we do need to improve / replace at all of these Positions over the next 2 years).
However, do 2009 Free Agent 1B’s Carlos Delgado, Nick Johnson or Adam LaRoche impress anybody here as “Best in Class”?? – I didn’t think so – but they are the “Best Available” next year!! (See what I mean – it’s not a pretty picture at all!!)
To take it further: Wanna know who the “Best Available” Free Agent CF is next year? How do the names Rick Ankiel, Mike Cameron, Darin Erstad or Andruw Jones strike you?
In LF, you’ll be able to “choose” from: Matt Holliday, Johnny Damon or Jason Bay (there might be some hope here).
In RF, you’ll be able to “choose” from: Vlad Guerrero, Xavier Nady or Jayson Werth.
(To be complete and accurate, there are a few OF’s who do have mutual/club/vesting options who will probably be kept by their Teams, namely: Carl Crawford, Coco Crisp, Jermaine Dye and Magglio Ordonez).
So – with all this said – what I’d like to put out here for discussion is this – WHERE does it say that the Yankees HAVE TO BE involved in Free Agent signings EVERY Off Season?
Since we do need to improve ourselves at 1B and several OF Positions over the next two years, what I would like to propose is that the Yankees “break the bank” and attempt to sign BOTH 1B Mark Teixeira (for 8 years) and OF / DH Manny Ramirez (for 3 years) NOW – WITH the understanding that they will probably NOT be involved – or even promise to swear off – the Free Agent “Class” of 2009 during next year’s Off Season.
This way, we’d solidify 1B for a number of years with a solid and PROVEN 1B, while Manny could “man” an OF/DH Position for a limited number of years (3) and give us the potential to have a very threatening lineup for that short time that is “stacked” from top to bottom.
In the past, the Yankees have often engaged in an “either / or” scenario with regards to Free Agents: remember the Manny Ramirez “or/vs.” Mike Mussina FA decision – or – in an eerrily similar “revamping” of our Starting Pitching Rotation decision – Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano & Jaret Wright “or/vs.” Carlos Beltran?1!?!
My point is WHY engage in this “either/or” line of thinking NOW – when you have 2 Proven Position Players (Tex & Manny)who can dramatically improve the Yankees both in the short term and long term?!?!?
The last time I read about it, the Steinbrothers still have 7 Luxury Suites to sell for the Season and YES Network Ratings to improve.
If Yankee Fans were to find BOTH Tex and Manny under their Christmas Trees this year, they would be very happy and the rest of MLB would have a serious juggernaut to contend with.
So, fellow LoHud Bloggers – What say you?
pat,
to help him field better?
“You’re joking, right? Manny is one of the worst LFers in the game today.”
Laura, I think it was a list of just offensive players with no defense taken into account.
“Laura, I think it was a list of just offensive players with no defense taken into account.”
Oh, okay. I must have missed that. My apologies.
Ed, glad you cleared that up about Matsui. I didn’t realize we had Joe Girardi on the message board. Sheesh. I don’t think it’s nearly so clear cut that Matsui isn’t going to the bench or getting shipped out. The guy’s had two knee surgeries and I don’t think we can expect him to play every day.
Since we don’t have many position players coming through the minors…and we have a dearth of starters coming through (in addition to our two new FA’s)….I think its time to look at a trading one of the starters for a 1B….
Perhaps Phil Hughes should pack his bags….
Foreget getting Tex…he costs too much (both in salary and years) and we just spent a ton
Great analysis on Tex… while I have always been an advocate for signing him it was under the idea that 8 years @ $ 18 million would/should get it done. At $ 22 + a year I would back away too.
They could sign Pettite, Wigginton and Baldelli for less than that money and have a set pitching staff and excellent position player depth and flexibility.
“# pat December 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Someone sent me a video clip of A-Rod working out in Miami this week taking ground balls from his knees.
I know that’s a set-up for a dozen good jokes but does anyone seriously know what that helps with?
”
Maybe practicing ball hops from a position your uncomfortable/unaccustomed with helps your reflexes.
Cro -
I see your reasoning on Tex. With you there.
But Manny too? Where would we put him? With Tex at first, that means Swisher is in the OF. Add Nady, Matsui (hard to move), Damon (hard to move), Melkey to the mix. That’s six for three OFs and a DH. Platoon Matsui and Manny at DH? Where Posada is going to need to find some time as well? Very crowded.
Helps some with reflexes and hand quickness/hand eye coordination.
I’ve had both knees surgically repaired, one was shredded pretty darn good. From experience, of course I wasn’t 34, I wouldn’t sell short on Matsui. Every possibility he will be better than his last full year. Posada though, throwing, batspeed? We will just have to wait with that.
Hman –
If we were to get Manny, then we would have to revisit and resolve the logjam that would be created. (However, that may not be such a bad problem to have!)
Remember, Nady, Damon & Matsui are ALL in the last year of their contracts in 2009 (so they’ll be staying or going after this Season anyway, so we’ll have to re-evaluate their value to the Yankees going into 2010).
For argument’s sake – and in light of the scenario you mentioned – I could see “assigning” Nick Swisher to the Bench, since he can play a numer of different positions.
So, that would mean that there still is one extra “body” to fit into the OF / DH / 1B “rotation”. (Might that be Melky or Nady – who could then be traded for a Player who could upgrade our Bench? BTW – I do agree that Matsui or Damon would be much more challenging to move or trade.)
The bottom line is that I’d be open to any creative solution that would allow the Yankees to work all of these “Hitters” into our Lineup!
Cro:
I’d rather trade Nady or Melky for some good prospects, but OK, I see a trade could free up some space.
Another problem is payroll and a lack of flexibility comes 2010. Signing both takes us to what – $230M for 2009? I know your proposed strategy is “break the bank” this year, and $30M is coming off the books again after next season, but that STARTS the Yankees at $200M. With NO flexibility. Now maybe you are saying flexibility is not a requirement because of the talent pool in 2010. I guess that is another question. But one that isn’t so certain until this year plays out.
Hal has already not listened to Cashman on re-signing A-Rod and giving Posada four years.
Think again.
The Yanks have have risked millions on pitchers who were recuperating fomr surgery in hopes that they would regain their former form. I see Baldelli in the same category.
They Yanks should make him an offer for not too long and not too much money. If he works out, they have an excellent center fielder. If he doesn’t work out, the Yanks can afford to loss of money.
Proud member of the ‘Old Goats against Manny’ club.
The guy is a cross between cancer and hemorrhoids.
getting Tex will be WAY overkill on the pocket book, i really hope they don’t shell out years and $$ for him, but we do still need lineup protection for Madonna’s boyfriend.
i fear Manny for two years with an option is in the works.
dying to know whats going on with Pettitte!