There’s actually some love for Manny
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- December
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According to the latest figures in our poll, 1,574 of 4,183 voters want to see Manny Ramirez in pinstripes next season. That’s 38 percent, which is more than I expected. But at least 62 percent of the people are thinking straight.
Thanks to Joe Girardi, Brian Cashman and traveling secretary Ben Tuliebitz for voting and getting so many of their friends and family to vote.
If you haven’t voted, please do over to the right.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
I still think we’re adding a bat, and that will probably be Manny if Tex ends up on the Angels.
I would think the love for Manny is more the love for a bat than it is for Manny himself. There is no doubt some that would like his Manny being Manny to keep things entertaining but the biggest thing that Manny brings is his protection for Arod and clutch hitting.
Tex doesn’t protect Arod but brings so many other things that he is the better spend in and around those rediculous figures.
let Teixeira to Angles,
Manny to Dodgers,
and we buy Dunn
i would be interested in signing Manny only if there were some clearly laid out performance and attitude incentives; otherwise it could really disrupt things in NY.
There’s “a lot of love” for Manny. Within a month or so it will be quite evident.
The market for Abreu has been pretty quiet so far. Any chance he returns on a 1 or maybe 2 year deal at 11-12 per? Cash would have to consider that, despite his pitiful defense.
Pete, other than A-rod, who else can hit for power in this lineup? Its not that all us Yankee fans love Manny so much, but we don’t want A-rod to be the only power hitter in our lineup next year. Manny is a tremendous hitter, as clutch as a guy can hit, and will protect A-rod in the lineup, similar to how Manny protected Ortiz all these years in Boston.
With all the new blood in the clubhouse, I don’t think Manny is gonna be a distraction. And he gets to play the team he now hates 19 times a year! Do you know how locked in he’s going to be make the Yankees the greater team in this division?
We’re all familar with Manny’s antics. But with all the garbage we’ve brought in over the years (Pavano, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi), I’m willing to risk bringing Manny being Manny into ours.
Having Ramirez’ bat in the lineup would be great. The problem with that is that it means the Yanks would have to keep him on the team. There is no way to keep him interested in playing and no place to play him. Not worth the headaches he causes on the team.
It would be different if Manny had the production of, say, Milton Bradley or someone similar. But Manny is OTHERWORLDLY. After hating him for so many years when he was with Boston, there aren’t any other players who scare me as much as he does.
A-Rod’s a great player and I think he has a great chance at catching Bonds for the all-time HR record, but with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th, would anybody really rather have A-Rod and his shaky inconsistency over Manny’s cool demeanor?
sheffield was garbage??? his last year here he was injured but the first two he hit just under 300 w 35 hr or so. thats not exactly garbage to me
“SJ—Iphone question, is there any way to scroll down more quickly while you’re surfing the blog? It’s always such a pain (literally) to get to the bottom of the page by flicking my finger when there are a couple of hundred comments.”
Can you make your iphone pretend it’s a blackberry? Then you can just hit “B” and it goes to the bottom of whatever page you have open. “T” goes back to the top. Very helpful in a long lohud thread.
“There is no way to keep him interested in playing and no place to play him.”
Has anyone looked at Manny’s career stats?
Seriously.
His level of interest may vary but his performance doesn’t. He a ridiculous model of consistency. Who cares what his “interest” (and I wonder how so many people can be mind-readers) is.
Teixeira comment—-
I keep reading people who dont want to see the Yanks get into the Teixeira bidding say he’s not worth Arod money. It’s bothering me. First of all, who is? Arod shouldn’t even be making that much money and he’ll be the best hitter of all time when its done. What these guys make is ridiculous. That being said, its all monopoly money. Who cares? You’re not paying it. In fact, if you want to say you ARE paying it by buying tickets, beer, jerseys and such FINE. Why wouldn’t you want the best product out on the field then? If you’re paying them all that money to see them why wouldn’t you want the best version possible?
I could go on and on about that but what I’m really wondering is how any Yankee fan can say $20-$25 Million a year is too much for Teixeira. Is it a stupid amount of money? Yes, obviously. But my question is HOW can we think paying Giambi $21 Million a year was okay when he cant throw, is slow and is basically a full time DH and then turn around and say we cant possible spend around the same or a few million more a year to have a power hitting, switch hitting, gold glove award winning 1B — who grew up like a lot of us did (I know I did) idolizing Donnie Baseball — isn’t worth the investment?
…Sorry I know that was a long run on sentence but that really been bothering me. People want to throw $25 per year at Manny to be a JOKE of an OF or a DH and deal with his crap but not spend the same on a 28 year old guy who could be an all star for the next decade (maybe not that long but 7-8 yrs) as a key position WITH AN OPENING? I just dont get it.
SIGN MARK TEIXEIRA!!!!
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Cano
4. ARod
5. Matsui
6. Posada
7. Nady
8. Swisher
9. Gardenr
Here are some percentages:
33% – players whose health is questionable
22% – players who are coming off career worst seasons
11% – players who may or may not be able to hit MLB pitching.
11% – players who had 100+ RBIS last season.
Hey it’s not the worst line-up in the world but it does seem that a lot of things have to go right in order for it to thrive.
Like the 2008 rotation and we all know what happened there.
I won’t say that Manny is a must have and in reality there’s not much room for him unless Damon goes back to center(giving them the worst defensive outfield possible) but there there does seem to be a need for another big bat.
Nick in Napa– You’re riot, can you make your blackberry have the real internet on it? Or is it still stuck in 1998?
sTevE dA KoOkY MeTs fAn iS bAck
Daniel Cabrera would be a stud in the NL, he claimed he is league average in the AL away from Camden Yards … OH LORD… (For some reason I miss his sports radio calls)
Manny would clearly be a more “interesting” signing because everyone would watch him like a car crash just waiting to see what he does. However, I’d much rather sign Mark Teixeira. I’d only sign Manny IF we dont get Teixeira and only if we got him at our price/years.
December 20th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
“There is no way to keep him interested in playing and no place to play him.”
Has anyone looked at Manny’s career stats?
Seriously.
His level of interest may vary but his performance doesn’t. He a ridiculous model of consistency. Who cares what his “interest” (and I wonder how so many people can be mind-readers) is.
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Because he tended to lose interest, i.e. fake injuries, lack of hustle….during some of the biggest games of the regular season. He’s motivated by money….not a shred of integrity.
sign.Adam.Dunn
Adam Dunn has no position on the Yankees though, we have a DH.
Rob,
I’ll live with his bad defense for a year, then have him be the DH in 2010, if Matsui decides to retire.
” But at least 62 percent of the people are thinking straight.”
the problem is that the so called thinking straight people( author of above statement included) have had an abysmal record predicting anything about the yankees the past few years. what good is so called “thinking straight ” if it just sounds good but doesn’t actually predict anything?
create the right situation for manny and there’s no better hitter in the american league. if girardi can’t deal with the unusual personality of ramirez, maybe that says more about girardi than manny.
teams with manny on them have almost always made the playoffs. this say tons about manny’s ability to get along with teammates and to be a major contributor to winning.
i would put manny and arod at the center of the yankee lineup and have it become the most hated team in america again, but that’s just me.
i will say that the yankees have shone signs of being the yankees again. this is a much more interesting winter than last winter.
how about RF I mean how many LD to RF are we expecting w/ CC + AJ + Wang + Joba ?
PA,
why do you hate Manny so much? Why does anybody that has a different line of thinking than yours isn’t “thinking straight”? Seriously, what’s wrong? You are in denial if you think next year’s offense will be anything other than average with the current players. They definately need a big bat, and Manny certainly qualifies as one. So please stop with this Manny bashing, it gets old and it makes you look dumb, and we know you are not.
“Ramirez’s effort to force his way out of Boston — his lack of competitive integrity — seems to be having a devastating effect on his market. At a time when teams are carefully doling out money, there seems to be a great reluctance to invest multiple years in a player who has a history of quitting.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ney_buster
“how about RF I mean how many LD to RF are we expecting w/ CC + AJ + Wang + Joba ?”
Yep, the OFers think its boring to play in the OF when Wang is on the mound. therefore, Dunn don’t have to do much work when Wang is out there.
Signing Dunn and putting him in Right Field would be the same effect of sticking jose molina in right field
Still need a big bat– An average offense with an elite starting staff and good bullpen is plenty enough to make and go deep into the playoffs.
How silly of people wanting one of the greatest hitters to ever live become a New York Yankee.
“Signing Dunn and putting him in Right Field would be the same effect of sticking jose molina in right field”
Molina a bad defender? have you been watching the games when Molina was playing? Remember Raul Mondesi? His defense sucked but we lived with for the a year and a half.
“How silly of people wanting one of the greatest hitters to ever live become a New York Yankee.”
You want the Yankees to sign Barry Bonds?
Maybe Manny will have a late career epiphany and suddenly play the game right.
Like Bernie Mac in “Mr. 3000″.
Rob, I don’t know about 1998, I just got this thing a few months ago. The internet I access with it seems real enough – no unicorns or leprachauns dancing across the screen. It doesn’t do all the nifty things the iphone does in those commercials (as far as I know) but I haven’t even scratched the surface with applications. It does have GPS, so I can find my way home from Napa!
I am convinced that if we knew what the vast majority of these players did with their traveling secretaries we might not be pleased.
so for the public to just suddenly get “leaked” info about one particular incident when we already know that the red sox were on a PR campaign against Manny, their star player… that’s just hearsay.
Now, onto the important business. I need to go to a dirt cheap beach that is vibrant but not resorty and within 14 hours plane ride from NYC. Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Bronx Jeers
December 20th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Maybe Manny will have a late career epiphany and suddenly play the game right.
Like Bernie Mac in “Mr. 3000”.
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Yeah, and maybe pigs will learn to fly, but I’m not betting any money on that, either.
You can’t compare Raul Mondesi to Adam Dunn. Mondesi could actually move around and had an arm. Dunn brings nothing to the table defensively. And I don’t care how many home runs he may be capable of hitting in Yankee stadium, I can do without his .240 batting average and 180 strikeouts. We already have Nick Swisher. I’d rather have people that can actually put the ball in play.
“Yeah, and maybe pigs will learn to fly, but I’m not betting any money on that, either.”
Don’t give Nick any ideas!
If Dunn is the bat, you put him at first and you put Swisher in right.
Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption
December 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
“Yeah, and maybe pigs will learn to fly, but I’m not betting any money on that, either.”
Don’t give Nick any ideas!
————————————————————
Yeah, that guy’ll bet on anything.
Is this a Josh Beckett convention? Why are we talking about playing the game the “right” way. I think the Yanks, if they’re willing to put money toward Manny, should go for Tex instead, but Lohud and these threads are pushing me to rooting for a Manny signing so that Reason wins out in the end.
I guarantee if you polled this on a neutral ground like Yankees.com instead of this website you would get a majority on acquiring Manny.
This poll means nothing.
This team needs a bat. Manny comes with a short term contract. This thing is such a no brainer.
Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption
December 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
“Yeah, and maybe pigs will learn to fly, but I’m not betting any money on that, either.”
Don’t give Nick any ideas!
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By the way…which Nick re you referring to? Tere’s two on here. Nick In Napa And all Points Beyond and just plan old nick.
Massive Corrections: ***By the way…which Nick are you referring to? There’s two on here. Nick In Napa And All Points Beyond and just plain old Nick.***
You guys crack me up. I cashed in on my ‘pigs will fly bet’ years ago:
http://disweb.org/travel/travel_pigs_fly.html
I don’t think it’s a no-brainer exactly because I think there are legitimate issues about roster construction and player redundancy and his defense (maybe one of two people on this thread have brought this up), but Global Warming’s paragraph is “straighter” thinking than Pete’s and those who dwell on personality issues and suggest that Sheff’s years with the Yanks were bad.
“Mondesi could actually move around and had an arm”
and Dunn doesn’t have an arm too? the only different thing about Dunn and Swisher, is Dunn averages a 100+ walks per years.
Global Warming
December 20th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Manny comes with a short term contract. This thing is such a ***no brainer***.
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It’s the ***No Brain***er that’s the problem.
Dunn HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
pLEASE STOP WITH THIS DUNN BS. You guys look at his stats and say hey this guy hits 40 HR a year, just what we need but u couldn’t be soooo wrong….The Yankees won’t touch Dunn. Why would they? He isn’t very good.
Yankees need ballplayers….Hitters….not another albatross who is only good for a 3run HR from time to time.
Get real people
Yeah, guys whose careers OPS+ is 130 should really be avoided like the plague. Guys who hit like that can’t possibly help you win.
“create the right situation for manny and there’s no better hitter in the american league. if girardi can’t deal with the unusual personality of ramirez, maybe that says more about girardi than manny.”
Why should the Yankees creating the right situation for Manny? Their only concern should be whether Manny fits into the situation the Yankees currently have. He doesn’t. He is a 36 year old DH who expects more than 2 years/$45 million (the offer from the Dodgers he rejected). That’s a tremendous cost for an older player who brings no versatility to an aging team. Manny can’t adapt to be what the Yankees need. The Yankees should have to adapt to him.
If the Yankees do sign Manny, I’m not concerned about his attitude. But if he does act out, blaming Girardi for his transgressions would be the last think I’d do.
“teams with manny on them have almost always made the playoffs. this say tons about manny’s ability to get along with teammates and to be a major contributor to winning.”
No one doubts that Manny is a great player. (Although I’m sure many people doubt that he gets along well with teammates.) He has been to the playoffs ten times. But the relevant question is, will paying Manny of today over $20 million a year for 3-4 years help the Yankees make the playoffs more than spending that kind of money on a different star player (like Teixeira, albeit fe is the or a longer contract) or a collection of other players? My view is no.
“i would put manny and arod at the center of the yankee lineup and have it become the most hated team in america again, but that’s just me.”
That does sound good. I certainly won’t be heartbroken if we sign Manny and he’s the best DH in baseball for the next three years.
“i will say that the yankees have shone signs of being the yankees again. this is a much more interesting winter than last winter.”
As far as I’m conerned, they never stopped looking like the Yankees, except for cutting back on the trend of acquiring overpaid, past-their-prime famous players.
Stranded in last thread:
December 20th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Back to Tex. Here’s my current thinking:
—Don’t trust John Henry’s theatric game-playing. Didn’t he do much the same with Dice-K? Emboldened by calling Boras’ bluff once, he’s trying again. The Sox I believe remain very interested.
—If it weren’t for money (and that’s still a big if) signing Tex would be a no-brainer for the Yanks. The long deal is worrisome but it seems to me the cost of allowing Tex to go to Boston is greater. Boston now has a very solid team with a reather stacked farm system. Allowing them to get Tex allows them to trade their top prospect (Anderson) and others to land a Peavey or other mound stud. With Tex and another pitcher Boston would have arguably neutralized all Cash has accomplished this winter.
-Signing Tex would rain down a hailstorm of criticism from Yankee-haters, perhaps even igniting talk of more revenue sharing or a salary cap. That’s a tough risk to evaluate – but it is a risk.
—-So here’s what I would do. I would not try to top an offer from the Nationals or even the Angels. But I would make it clear to Boras that we will match any offer from Boston. The question is whether we’d top such an offer. For now, I’d say no. Because I think (though I have no inside info on this) thar Tex wants the Yanks. Given equal offers from BOston and NY, I believe he’d choose NY.
One problem with signing Manny, is that it would require dumping Matsui, and eating much of his salary. If Manny comes in, it must be primarily to DH. Having Manny in left and Damon in center would be a disaster. It is easy to say you can live with the tradeoff in December, but wait until May, and even bad baserunners are taking extra bases every time. Throw in an average RF(Nady), and this could be one of the worst defensive outfields ever. It doesn’t matter who is pitching, there will be balls hit to the outfield.
Dunn averages 100+ walks a year, so does Giambi. Where’s the difference?
The Yankees should NOT have to adapt to him, that is.
you need a new poll.. that one is bs. All you have to do to vote over and over again is clear your cookies.
There’s one at Yesnetwork.com that has the complete opposite in results.
Pink Floyd also employed a flying pig so now there’s at least 2 cases.
Is there hope for Manny after all?
Seriously though, in a perfect world there is no room for a baseball player who earns 20 mil+ and still needs “motivation” to perform up to his abilities.
Then again the AL East is far from a perfect world.
Few seems to remember that Manny never liked Boston style of living and said so a year after he signed. He publicly said he missed Cleveland one year after he opted for free agency. Without him, Cleveland might not have made the playoffs in ‘97. Without him Boston would have seen their 89th year without a world chanpionship. Once he was told that his 2 option years in Boston would not be picked up it sealed the deal in his mind.
He seemed relieved and happy in L.A. last year and without him the Dodgers would not have seen the playoffs.
Like any player in existence, he likes the money but seems to play up to his full potential when he likes where he’s playing.
I’m going to clear my cookies on Christmas!
“This team needs a bat. Manny comes with a short term contract. This thing is such a no brainer.”
when Manny starts being Manny, everyone, rightly, would criticize the Yanks if they were to brainlessly obtain this slime.
there’s a reason why the Red Sox put him on irrevocable waivers a few years back; there’s a reason they took a bath to get rid of him in the middle of 2008.
it’s too bad, Manny truly is a great hitter. but he doesn’t even run out ground balls, etc. Character – by which i mean on-field hustle and deportment – matters.
The thought of the Yanks losing dozens of well pitched games because of a stagnant offense is making me want to toss my cookies.
Regarding the “short term contract” argument:
Manny will probably get 3 or 4 years. That’s not really “short term,” unless you are comparing it to a very unusual contract like ARod’s or Jeter’s. We have to consider the reality that Manny will be 39 or 40 when his deal is up, and if he’s barely capable of playing an adequate LF now, he will be incapable then.
On a team full of aging players like the Yankees, having Manny for 3-4 years at the salary he’ll command is a recipe for serious problems. I’m not talking about his personality, I’m talking about the danger that we’ll have to sit him or other highly-paid players because we have too many DHs.
If Manny would take something like the Dodgers’ offer, 2 years/$45 million, he would be a much easier call. But he already rejected that offer.
Fine…don’t get Tex or Manny. In doing so, the Yanks are practically guaranteeing another 3rd place finish. To think that the current offensive lineup is going to be enough, even with a stellar rotation, is delusional. Swisher for Giambi is a wash at *best by factoring in better defense. Subtract Abreu and replace his spot with a gimpy Matsui.
Yanks have a budget…that’s nice. Last time I heard that they passed on Beltran because “we already got Randy Johnson, that’s our big move.” The next year, they dump the brinks truck off for Damon. Well, Beltran is still in CF and now Damon is a part-time DH and the Yanks again need a CF. Austin Jackson *might be the answer next year but excuse me if I’m a little hesitant with rushing prospects after last year.
Signing Teixeira just makes too much sense to me. However, if not then the Yanks HAVE to trade for a big hitter! WE have the pitching prospects to get that done.
I do not want Dunn. I have rarely seen anyone hit as many home runs with so few RBIs year after year. He only hits wiht the bases empty and not too well at that. As much as everyone loves OPS I watch games with strike outs with runners on third way too often. We already added a lot of strike outs with Swisher and Dunn with lead to Beckett striking out 18 against us. Plus, where does he play? I’d rather have Manny in right than him. He is a terrible idea. If he were to be signed, great unhappiness would follow through the year. That is one of the few things I feel sure about.
dunn sucks plain and simple. yeah he hits hrs but he strikes out just as much
nud just use one screen name we know it’s you
You can’t have one set of rules, guidelines and expectations for 24 guys and another for Manny.
Those of us who don’t want Manny in pinstripes don’t deny his offensive abilities. We just don’t think he’s worth all that goes with it. I’d be much happier to see the Yanks add Pettite, Baldelli and Wigginton for less money than Manny alone would cost.
That would set the rotation and create a deep, flexible ballclub with mutiple options at all the postions that are in question (1B, DH, OF). There is only one big time power bat under those circumstances, but you’d have a half dozen guys who might hit 20 or so and you’d have great match up opportunities.
“dunn sucks plain and simple. yeah he hits hrs but he strikes out just as much”
yet his career OBP is .380.
Hey Stew and Jeremy, where ya been?
This is so stupid it’s rediculous.
If Cash doesn’t sign Tex then his legacy will be Tex and Beltran.
It was a no brainer to throw big money at the pitching staff but signing Tex takes balls as this will be viewed as a gamble due to the length of the contract. If he passes and lives to regret it, he won’t be long for his position. If he makes the move then we might just win a few titles in the Arod,Jeter,CC,AJ,Mo, window.
“yet his career OBP is .380. ”
That’ll help great with a runner on second or third.
He’ll either be hacking or walking. Why did they let Giambi go?
Dunn also doesn’t GIDP much. Strikeouts are muuuuuuch better than GIDP’s.
Source: Pettitte-to-Yanks ‘virtually inevitable’
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....-to-Yanks-
If the Yankees don’t sign Tex…..the vote will switch around fast for signing manny.
regarding Dunn, what the 2009 Yanks need is a #3 or #5 hitter. Someone who’ll be hitting consistently w/men on base – someone w/a good BA, patient, decent power. A Bobby Abreu type of hitter.
That’s not Dunn. Now maybe he’d be better than Swisher – depends upon how much you value 1B defense. But he’s not a great all-around hitter a la Bobby Abreu, so they’d still need a bat IMO to be a top-shelf offense.
“Dunn also doesn’t GIDP much. Strikeouts are muuuuuuch better than GIDP’s.”
Shelley Duncan can do that. He’s cheaper and younger. All he has to do is connect with the ball 40 times and he’ll be the exact same hitter as Adam Dunn.
“As far as I’m conerned, they never stopped looking like the Yankees, except for cutting back on the trend of acquiring overpaid, past-their-prime famous players.”
jeremy-
thanks for your thoughtful comments, but under the cashman doctrine of 2008, the team that had too many underpaid, never to see a prime, unfamous players did not look like a yankee team to me.
it looked like brian cashman’s idea of the yankees. big difference.
despite what some other bloggers that i respect say, i don’t see this year’s signings as part of the plan put in place last year. if hughes, joba , and kennedy succeeded as planned, i don’t think we’d be seeing the huge amount of free agent money being spent this winter.
the plan of 2008 didn’t work. cashman can be credited for changing the plan this winter because he was so wrong last year, but he can’t be credited for coming up with a good plan for 2008 and a team that looked like the yankees.
the 2009 team is starting to be recognizable as a yankee team.
Adam Dunn does have a career OPS+ of 130.
Mark Teixeira has a career OPS+ of 134.
Does anyone truly believe Teixeira is only 4% better an offensive player than Dunn is?
Dunn is a much better player than he is credited for being by people who focus on this strikeouts. But he’s not nearly as good a hitter as his OPS or OPS+ suggest he is because he’s a poor context dependent player.
“You can’t have one set of rules, guidelines and expectations for 24 guys and another for Manny.”
torre did with manny’s appearance. how’d that work out?
randy l
December 20th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
“As far as I’m conerned, they never stopped looking like the Yankees, except for cutting back on the trend of acquiring overpaid, past-their-prime famous players.”
jeremy-
thanks for your thoughtful comments, but under the cashman doctrine of 2008, the team that had too many underpaid, never to see a prime, unfamous players did not look like a yankee team to me.
it looked like brian cashman’s idea of the yankees. big difference.
despite what some other bloggers that i respect say, i don’t see this year’s signings as part of the plan put in place last year. if hughes, joba , and kennedy succeeded as planned, i don’t think we’d be seeing the huge amount of free agent money being spent this winter.
the plan of 2008 didn’t work. cashman can be credited for changing the plan this winter because he was so wrong last year, but he can’t be credited for coming up with a good plan for 2008 and a team that looked like the yankees.
the 2009 team is starting to be recognizable as a yankee team.
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Cashman has said over and over that he had no intention of giving up that amount of talent and then pay for the privilege. He also said that they’ve been targeting Sabathia for two years. In other words….nothing has changed in the “Cashman Doctrine”. It’s still the system, supplimented with FAs.
Could vernon wells be an option in CF?What would the yankees have to give up?
CB, what’s your take on Joe Nelson, the irstwhile relief pitcher with the ‘08 Marlins? I know that he’s 34 and he’s probably not a 2.00 ERA pitcher, but, why would they cut a $450,000 pitcher with less than two full years of MLB service? It didn’t appear that he was injured.
CB
his context has been being a talented young slugger on the crazy Cincinatti Reds. I’d say his 130 OPS+ is exactly what it is. It’s hard to drag a team to respectability when the oppositions only constant strategy is to not throw you a strike.
Roger(amsterdam)
December 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Could vernon wells be an option in CF?What would the yankees have to give up?
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It would depend on how much of the 100 mil over 5 years that Toronto is willing to pick up and what they want. He’s a 30 year old with injury problems last year.
Pete let me speak to you in Patriots lingo because thats really only what you undestand.
Randy Moss of the Patriots was considere as much of a head case as Manny and yet we all knew he was not good but great at what he does.And the Patriots got better with him even Brady.Yes they didn’t win the super bowl but they woudn’t have gotten there without him.
Yes Manny is a head case but at leasst he isn’t a drug addict(Gooden,Strawberry) or a HGH user(Pettitte,Giambi) yet we still gave them a chance.
Manny doesn’t need to be a overrated nice guy(Jeter) he just needs to hit clutch homeruns.When Torre says he likes Manny thats good enough for me.
Any possibility of Melky (plus?) for Vernon Wells as per Heyman? .285/.332/.480/27HR/900RBI career averages. His OBP is a little low, he’s had a couple injuries here & there, a marginal threat to steal at best, but he’s 30 and less than $4M per. Ideal? Maybe not … could be better than Cameron though.
99RBI not 900 sorry!
MoBoy(aka McLovin)
December 20th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Manny doesn’t need to be a overrated nice guy(Jeter) he just needs to hit clutch homeruns.When Torre says he likes Manny thats good enough for me.
Terry Francona and 24 former team mates didn’t think much of him, did they? Torre would say that because it’s possible that he still has to work with Ramirez.
ANSKY
December 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Any possibility of Melky (plus?) for Vernon Wells as per Heyman? .285/.332/.480/27HR/900RBI career averages. His OBP is a little low, he’s had a couple injuries here & there, a marginal threat to steal at best, but he’s 30 and less than $4M per. Ideal? Maybe not … could be better than Cameron though.
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Wells is owed almost 100 million over the next 5 years.
Whether Pete, his esteemed colleagues in the media, or anyone on this blog “gives Manny love” is irrelevant. So too is anyone’s notion of “thinking straight” which, in this case, is simply a reflection of one’s ingrained bias, one way or the other.
The only thing that matters is what Hal and Hank think and ultimately decide to do. They not only control the purse strings but deal with the “big picture” which focusses on the global revenue stream not simply who is or is not on the roster and what that direct cost is.
Will “on-field’ performance benefit, will attendance and directly related-revenues increase, will advertising revenues increase, will YES revenues, from both the client and ownership interests likewise increase, etc. ?
Hal and Hank decide what is best from their vantage point as the ownership base of the organization charged with the decision-making process, with the end in view being “the increase in value of the business”. Presumably, this is based upon input from Cashman, Levine, Trost and a number of others. That’s “thinking straight”. The bottomline….it’s a business plain and simple, particularly to this generation of Steinbrenners.
Would anyone here be interested if Vernon Wells became available. According to MLB trade rumors the blue Jays might want to unload his contract. I imagine him a better fit with the Mets than the Yanks- Assuming Wilpon has any money left after Madoff cleaned out his trading account
How could you not be interested in Vernon Wells? However, my guess is that Ricciardi and the Jays would be loathe to trade him within the division, let alone to the Yankees. Not unless the price was exorbitant.
Phil,
I like Dunn overall but he’s extremely limited and simply not as good as rate dependent and context independent stats suggest he is due limitations.
His career OPS’s are very close to Teixeira’s. However, he simply creates significantly fewer runs. Now of course he’ll cost less – but that’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m just talking about Dunn’s production stats. No single stat tells the whole picture and with a guy like Dunn that’s particularly true.
He’s just not nearly as valuable with men on base as a guy whose OBP is derived more from his BA than from walking is.
Not a knock. Just a description of the player and one of his limitations.
Wasn’t one of Manny’s complaints about BOS was the media coverage and the pressure to win? Does someone want to explain how that’s different from here? Inquiring minds want to know.
Rafael Furcal is denying that he ever told the Braves he would play for them. (according to ESPN News)
Ricciardi isn’t going to trade Wells within the division unless they`re ready to blow things up and rebuild, which is what they really should do. But Ricciardi is a moron so he won’t do that.
“How could you not be interested in Vernon Wells? ”
Easy, Joe. He signed that huge contract and then got injured and essentially disappeared at the plate. That’s why the Jays are unhappy with him. That being said, I’d take him, but I would also be prepared to have to spell him in CF when he gets hurt again.
GB7,
Nelson’s ok – had a pretty good year though I think he was helped pitching in that huge ball park (gives up a lot of fly balls compared to grounders). But I think the yanks have better options that will likely cost less on the team already.
“Rafael Furcal is denying that he ever told the Braves he would play for them. (according to ESPN News)”
And he didn’t. His agent did. That’s essentially the same thing in my book.
LINEUP:
damon LF,jeter SS,wells CF,arod 3B,matsui DH,posada C,nady RF,cano 2B,swisher 1B
SR
cc sabathia
aj burnett
chien ming wang
joba chamberlain
andy pettite/phil hughes
Bullpen
rivera,marte,bruney,coke,veras,melencon,aceves
bench
molina,gardner/cabrera,?,?
WOW!!
Dunn isn’t quite the upgrade that Texiera or Ramirez wuld be but for the contract he`ll command its worth it. If they sign either Texiera or Ramirez they may not be able to get Pettitte either.
With Dunn they can not only afford Pettitte as well, but they could also add bench options like Baldelli and/or Wigginton.
CB
December 20th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
GB7,
Nelson’s ok – had a pretty good year though I think he was helped pitching in that huge ball park (gives up a lot of fly balls compared to grounders). But I think the yanks have better options that will likely cost less on the team already.
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Actually, CB, I was looking for your opinion as to why a cost cutting team would just non-tender him. I know they had a lot of kids to protect, but, they need bullpen arms to help protect those young starters that they keep chewing up.
Who is this ‘Hank’ person?
given Wells’ salary, it seems it would be better to just invest the dough in Teixeira.
if you could get Toronto to turn this into a salary eating deal – they eat anything above, say, $12 million per or so, plus take only marginal players back, then it’d be worth it. but i can’t see Toronto doing that within the division, especially w/the Yankees.
Nick,
which blackberry you have? the storm?
Mike NYY
December 20th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Dunn isn’t quite the upgrade that Texiera or Ramirez wuld be but for the contract he`ll command its worth it. If they sign either Texiera or Ramirez they may not be able to get Pettitte either.
With Dunn they can not only afford Pettitte as well, but they could also add bench options like Baldelli and/or Wigginton.
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Right now, the only way that Dunn would be better was if NYY could get Wells from Toronto with them picking up 25% of his remaining contract and not trading Jackson or the farm. That, would be a much better deal than just Teixeira, IMO.
GB7,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I think they just don’t see him in their long term plans given his age. Given that they just see no reason to pay him even a dollar more than they want. They’d just as soon give the roster spot to a kid.
I don’t think it really bothers them if that costs them a few more losses in the upcoming year. That’s not the way they operate there. It’s always the future in Miami.
CB
December 20th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
GB7,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I think they just don’t see him in their long term plans given his age. Given that they just see no reason to pay him even a dollar more than they want. They’d just as soon give the roster spot to a kid.
I don’t think it really bothers them if that costs them a few more losses in the upcoming year. That’s not the way they operate there. It’s always the future in Miami.
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Thanks, CB. I was just looking at the amount of pitchers that they seem to be putting on the DL the last few years and thinking he could be a bit of an arm saver. I hate seeing that kind of young talent being used up like that, regardless of the team.
Ed: I have the Curve with Sprint. Not the best network but they throw in some nice extras (GPS, live TV) to compensate.
A cousin of mine bought the Storm and returned it the same day. Maybe he was too harsh? But read this:
“No other phone this year has generated more negative buzz than the BlackBerry Storm, the first touchscreen phone from Research In Motion.”
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/.....lackb.html
This team should be in on Tex. They need a young, in his prime offensive player. They need someone with strong defensive skills. They have no 1b in the system.
This is a no brainer.
You ever think theres a reason as to why Tor is trying to move Wells???
Nick,
wow, the storm stinks? I hate Sprint as well, the only thing that would make me get Sprint is the Instinct phone. I thought the G1 was bad too but after playing with it, it was okay. i have been hearing split reviews about the G1, some said its better than the iphone and some said its worse than an iphone.
GB,
how does trading for Wells would be better for Dunn getting to NY?
Let’s see Peter, if we agree with you we’re “thinking straight” and if we don’t we’re not… Because you’ve been so right about Phil Franchise and Ian “I got out of the second so I did a good job” Kennedy????
Manny was Manny when the Red Sox got him, that didn’t just start last year. They lived with his antics for years. Tell me again, how many world series did they win with him?
The Yanks were pitiful hitting in the clutch last year (actually for several years), and two of the guys who at least got a few clutch hits (Abreu and Giambi) are now gone. They NEED another big bat in that lineup, one who can actually put the bat on the ball in the clutch. Manny for two years would be great in that lineup.
Thank God Peter doesn’t run the team. If he did, we’d have never gone after CC or any pitching, just handed the jobs to Phil Phranchise and Kennedy again, based on the fact that they pitched a few decent innings in the ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE!
Lipstick J
December 20th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
You ever think theres a reason as to why Tor is trying to move Wells???
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Yes, because they’re trying to cut payroll since their owner, Ted Rogers died. These large contracts are killing them with the economy the way it is. Their revenues are paid in Canadian dollars and contracts are paid in US dollars. They lose 20 cents on the dollar in the exchange rate.
ED: I chose the Curve over the Instinct, I guess I just prefer the real keyboard and, potentially, applications over the bigger screen of the Instinct. Some folks love their Storms, btw, that negative atricle is just one piece of the puzzle. But it’s not a no-brainer, as both Tex and Manny apparently are.
why don’t we swoop in and steal frucal before the ink dries on the dodgers contract?
“Rafael Furcal is denying that he ever told the Braves he would play for them. (according to ESPN News)”
Rafy needs to STHU, he knows what he did was wrong, I’m glad the Braves owner/GM spoke up about this, verbal agreements are also taken serious in this world and business.
Ed – CC and Wang, the Dynamite Duo (at my friends house)
December 20th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
GB,
how does trading for Wells would be better for Dunn getting to NY?
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If they were to get Wells with Toronto paying 25% of the 100 mil they owe him, NYY could sign Dunn for either a corner outfield or 1st base. Together, they’d cost less than Teixeira and cover two spots. Worse defense where Dunn plays but top of the line defense in center, plus their combined offense. Was just saying that’s the only way Dunn would make more sense than Teixeira alone.
There is going to be a big game against Boston where we have the tying run on 3rd, 0 outs against Papelbon, and Nady, Swisher, and Gardner/Cameron are all going to strike out swinging.
If Cashman really thinks that a $200 million dollar team can rely on a 37 yr old Posada and 35 yr old Matsui coming off injuries to protect A-Rod… then he has no right being a GM.
Nick,
some people’s fingers are just too big to use a touch screen phone.
We finished 10th last year in runs scored. The Mets, Phillies, Twins, Red Sox, Tigers, Chi Sox, Indians, Rangers, and Cubs all finished ahead of us. We just lost oue #3 hitter and #5 hitter.
Any way you slice it, the offense is in trouble next year barring just unbelievable years from everyone. And asking players over 35 to produce career years is not very smart.
GB,
that does make sense. thanks.
@Dutch Hugo
Don’t claim Pete doesn’t know his stuff and then go ranting about such unqualified and entirely subjective qualities like “clutch hitting.” Fun fact: there’s no such thing. It’s all in your head.
There’s nothing wrong with a team with a good pitching staff and an average batting lineup. The amount Manny would actually contribute (over Matsui, let’s say) is not worth the price or the headache. This game isn’t about just stacking every free agent bat you can get.
Trade Veras and Melky for Vernon Wells.
If they want something more, say some combination of Giese, Edwar, Christian, Jason Jones, Cervelli etc. then they need to pay some of Vernon’s salary.
I still want a left handed bat for the bench. Somebody who can play 1B/corner outfield spots…Any Ideas?
“Rafy needs to STHU, he knows what he did was wrong, I’m glad the Braves owner/GM spoke up about this, verbal agreements are also taken serious in this world and business.”
Yep, he already added a negative on his rep.
matsui can’t shine mannys shoes
manny would turn our lineup from a mediocre at best one to the best in baseball
Can’t Alan Selig suspend Frucal’s agent or something?
When we play the Braves next year, we need to buzz Frucal. Just to let him know what he did was wrong.
^
Furcal signed with the Dodgers.
Ed – CC and Wang, the Dynamite Duo (at my friends house)
December 20th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
GB,
that does make sense. thanks.
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That’s a lot to work around, but, Cashman can work during Christmas.
Hey Chester, where did you play your baseball? No such thing as clutch hitting? Uhh, ok, I guess no one ever comes up in late innings in a close game and produces or doesn’t. You sound like one of those fantasy geeks who plays numbers games in his mother’s basement and thinks he’s an expert on the game.
Getting “every” big bat on the market is not the question. The question is getting a great clutch hitter. The Yanks dynasty of the late 90s didn’t have big superstar hitters, but they had guys like O’Neil and Brosius who got timely hits. How many guys in the current Yankee lineup have proven to have that ability? Jeter? Who else? Posada, two years ago. ARod? Don’t make me laugh. Manny has, in a big way.
And, by the way, I’ll rant when and where I want to, Adolf.
It’s not really about Manny. It’s just that a lot of fans, myself included, believe our offense is lacking, especially if Boston signs Tex. I still believe they will. I know it’s a little greedy to expect an all-star at every position but the only positions we can expect all star type production are 3B and SS. Everybody else is coming off a down year (Cano, Melky/Gardner, Swisher), injury (Posada, Matsui), or on the downside of their career (Damon). And then there’s Nady who may have just had his career year. Adding Cameron doesn’t help much either.
Stop insulting your readers, Pete.
38% of us voted YES for Manny Ramirez, that does not automatically make us idiots. The little jabs are getting old fast…be ready to eat your words if he signs.
Just to be clear, I’m not crazy about the “Manny being Manny” sideshow. But I’d rather take a chance on Manny than take the chance of relying on Matsui and Posada to stay healthy and protect A-Rod.
I’d prefer Tex (unrealistic), or a trade for a different power bat, but if Manny Ramirez signs with us for a short term deal, wake up, thats good news.
i think getting wells is the move. he’d be perfect in cf, hitting third in front of a-rod
and we probably wouldn’t have to give up that much since it’s primarily a salary dump.
think toronto would deal within the division? i’m thinking probably not, but i’ve liked wells for a long time.
hello
hello, how about Manny?
You’ll be wanting Manny Peter when this team is putting up 0 runs & CC is giving up 1 run for loses…….
Ed: this post is from my Curve. Notice it’s pithier but still delighfully refreshing.
The Red Sox are calling Boras bluff on these “other” offers Tex has and rightly so. So Furcal’s agent takes the written offer sheet from the Braves and shows it to the Dodgers. The Dodgers then up their offer. Do you see where I’m going with this?
There’s a reason a contract is not executed until you sign it. The Braves know this, although I understand why they were pissed. But then again, a player (or anyone for that matter) has a right to change his mind up to the moment he actually signs his name on the dotted line.
For some reason people seem to always support ownership when there is a dispute. These ownership groups are made up of successful businessmen, multi-millionaires, billionaires and lawyers. What Furcal and his representation did was a shrewd business move and nothing more.
alvaro espinoza’s hipster frames
December 20th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
i think getting wells is the move. he’d be perfect in cf, hitting third in front of a-rod
and we probably wouldn’t have to give up that much since it’s primarily a salary dump.
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Again….Wells is not a 20 mil a year player. Toronto would have to take some of the salary back or take players like Igawa among others.
Last years banged up and over pressing offense, with this years (healthy)rotation may have won 100+games. Will be an interesting season anyway.
TWO Things:
1} I say SIGN Manny for 3 years at $75MM with $15MM deferred that can be somehow tied to his behavior. Then trade Damon and his $13MM salary for prospects {Their are numerious teams that would take Damon as his salry is fair}. This double move would only increase the yearly team salary by $7MM in real today $’s.
2} CC THOUGHT: The only other offer on the table was Milwaukee at $100MM and the last I had seen Milwaukee was not on the West Coast. The Yanks did not have to give CC the extra $60MM in sure $’s. Fantasy $’s don’t count and no way was Milwaukee going to committ to $125MM in sure $’s. Maybe the Giants would have given him $120MM over 7 years, but that was a maybe at best. Certainly not $160MM and a 3 year out. The reason the Yanks over-paid was he did not want to pitch in NYC unless he was paid a lot more then anywhere else. All I was saying is wouldn’t it have been nice if he had said he wanted to play here and did not have to be paid 60% more to play here. Plus he wants a 3 year out clause in case he doesn’t like it. This guy better win 25 games a year, he put the pressure on his own back!
wise man, your going to trade a lead off hitter and a great guy in the locker room?? stupid idea.. Whose going to lead off?? and ohh yeah, he just recruited cc and aj and your going to turn around and trade him?? JOhnnys still effective, and a good hitter why trade him? come on, use your common sense
Why Damon would go in my plan: You can’t have 3 LF’ers. Matsui will have no takers, Damon is most attractive and Atlanta and other teams have asked about him in the past. He is not the leadoff guy he once was and Peter says the Yanks want to keep this payroll to $180MM or so this year. The only want to do that and get Manny is to eliminate $15MM and 1 LF’er must go. Damon is it. Leadoff can be Jeter or Gardner if he is as good as Cashman claims.
Damon has a partial no-trade clause.
As far as I am concerned I have seen this line-up decline in many ways..
I can’t believe people actually claim they the Yankees are patient at the plate.. You have to be kidding me.. and in ‘07 we may have scored a lot of runs.. but this team when winning tends to score a ton of runs.. but when down by a couple runs they look like the most impatient team in the MLB..
Yes, on paper they are fantastic.. but numbers don’t really show the truth of this teams struggles..
I think this year CC, AJ, Wang will get a lot of wins… but if our bats are anything close to what they were last year, get ready for another year of disappointment. Please don’t blame the injuries.. boston and tampa had their fair share of injuries but still managed to get the job done.
Manny might be a great clutch hitter but I am not looking to add another player on the team that is all about “themselves” this team needs players that create synergy not disharmony.. we have enough of that.
and you know what.. I’d pay extra for that!
Tex would be a fantastic addition to this team, he reminds me of Donnie Baseball. Oh “the face of 1rst base!”.
Stop saying 1B is reserved for older players who can no longer fulfill their current position.. if that is the reason to not sigh a real 1B then we are in for a team playing while wearing adult diapers and can’t remember where they parked their car.
wiseman, just stop.. ure “plan” is not a good one.. sorry to say..Gardners a AAA at best.. and Matsui would DH and Manny would play LF and Johnny can play CF and we’ll suffer defensively for a year, then next year when Matsui goes back to Japan and Damons done(if they dont extend him) it will all clear up..
Please, someone quote an article that states Manny wants to be in the limlight on NYC, and the media attention that it will stir up. He couldn’t stand it in Boston.
As regards to Teixeira, and looking at the 2010 free agent list, if the Yankees can come up with a creative way to add him to the lineup, in terms of salary structure, I say go for it. I also really think that he would rather be a Yankee than a Red Sox, wants to play in the Northeast, and is undecided about taking a contract with the two teams-Orioles and Nationals that are 3-4 years away from contending, and that’s being optimistic.
After saying this, if the money is spent instead on adding Pettitte, trading for a defensive CF’er who can get on base, and beefing up the bench, we should be in the playoffs. With the revamped pitching staff, we would have a pretty good shot of advancing far in the playoffs, IMO.
Plus we have the chips to pull off a trade for a big bat, either now or at the July trading deadline.
P.S. If Boras doesn’t get all he thinks he should for Tex before Xmas.. it’s not getting done.
I’ve never seen the Yankees brass in such internal conflict like they have been these past couple seasons.. Hal or Hank need to becomes leaders and not just voices within the group..
you may love or hate some of George’s decisions.. but one thing you have to respect is that when he wanted something done he got it done.
Do I have to remind you what George did for this team when he bought it in the 70’s until now? Don’t bash him ever, that man did his job and what he did is why you love the Yankees today.
“I can’t believe people actually claim they the Yankees are patient at the plate.. You have to be kidding me.. and in ‘07 we may have scored a lot of runs.. but this team when winning tends to score a ton of runs.. but when down by a couple runs they look like the most impatient team in the MLB..”
I haven’t heard anyone on this blog that thought we were patient hitters, like we used to be , when we could get to the other teams bullpen by the 5th or 6th inning. I couldn’t agree with you more about the team being down a few runs, that we are very impatient at the plate, looking for the 3-run homer-”Earl Weaver philosophy,” to get us back in the game. Maybe the Yankees shouldn’t have put the extra incentive in A-Rod’s contract to break Barry Bonds home run record!!
thinks he needs to go down to Jimbos and have a talk with Big Stein over a pork sammich and a rasberry shake.
“Maybe the Yankees shouldn’t have put the extra incentive in A-Rod’s contract to break Barry Bonds home run record!!”
Hah! No kidding
According to MLB.com’s Bill Ladson, the Nationals signed Daniel Cabrera to a one-year deal (pending a physical). One of Ladson’s sources says the Nats beat out the Mets and Pirates for him.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-sign.html
————-
aren’t the Yanks glad that he’s out of the AL east.
Hank,
I know where you can get cartons of Marlboro Reds for 21.99.. hit me up and I’ll tell you.
Hey btw, got an extra smoke?
Gardner had a very respectable .283 OBP last year
If he can build on that, with his speed, he can really be a spark on the basepaths and create a ton of runs.
Wells is not a 20 mil a year player. Toronto would have to take some of the salary back or take players like Igawa among others.
===
you’re probably right. im inclined to think that the yankees would ask toronto to take on a bit of salary, in exchange for a better trade package.
this might all be moot though, since toronto probably wouldn’t trade him within the division
Regardless of what they told us in little league a walk isn’t as good as a hit. When men are on base a walk can only, at best move the runners one base. OPS, while a good stat, just doesn’t consider actual run production. Having Dunn walk is akin to having Giambi walk. I always felt it would take an HR to score him. Teams win by timely hitting along with power. Dunn has the power, but he is not a good hitter. He can’t hit left-handers either. Simple question–runners on first and third with the game ofn the line–isn’t Dunn at least as unlikely to succeed as Giambi?
“Why Damon would go in my plan”
Damon is very instrumental in us getting AJ and you think that the Yankees are going to repay him by trading him? That would be pretty low class IMO.
i love tex but thats to much money for texeira but i think we should go for manny hes proved to us ova da years that hes clutch hes kill us in the past and we need a bat like that bat him behind arod thats just sick and i think weith manny in the lineup the teams gonna get better
Laura,
I agree, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I mean, look what they are doing to Andy now
I can only see pursuing Manny if Red Sox sign Teixeira. Otherwise the only move I see making besides Pettitte is a defensive CF short term who can hit about .275 and have a good on base avg. Don’t get me wrong, if that person
is Gardner, I’m fine with it.
“look what they are doing to Andy now”
What are they doing?
They are showing lot of respect waiting on him for ever.
He was very well paid for his services in the past and if he has better offers he should take them and stop saying money does not matter and he wants to pitch for Yankees. He is holding up for more money isn’t it, as if 10 mil is chump change.
Yanks are showing him lot of respect. Cash even visited him in person. Anybody else, they would have asked him to take a hike long back.
@Dutch Oven
It’s not “clutch hitting” that makes Manny an asset in tight situations. Of course he’s going to perform well in the playoffs; he’s a .411 OBP hitter for crying out loud. Chances are, big situation or not, he’s going to get on-base 40% of the time. We just selectively recall those big at-bats where he succeeded because he’s been on winning teams. Ditto Jeter.
I had thought that signing aging sluggers was finally (finally!) going out of style, but people keep clamoring for it to happen. I guess it’s going to take a few more third place finishes for the point to get across.
“Fun fact: there’s no such thing (as clutch hitting). It’s all in your head.”
Fun fact? More like a fundamental fallacy.
Anyone who believes there’s no such thing a clutch itting should study Yankee history. The entire late 70s dynasty was built around the fact that guys like Pinella, Munson, White, Jackson, Chambliss and (I believe) Rivers and Randolph all had superior numbers in situations defined as clutch. Indeed, several of these players — whose overall statistics were good but not great — were among the league leaders in hitting with men in scoring position over a five year period. (And I won’t even get in to Yogi Berra, one of the great 8th inning hitters of all time).
The fallacies and misconceptions spread by some devotees of sabremetrics are endless.
I do not think Yanks will trade Damon.
He is a very good LF and if does well in 2009 I see him coming back for year or two.
If Tex is signed, a big if, most likley Nady or Swisher will be traded as they both are easily tradable.
screw Andy P he is a flake…and he stunk the joint up last season.should be on the scrap heap like his pal Rodger
“He is a very good LF and if does well in 2009 I see him coming back for year or two.”
Even with Matt Holliday being a FA after next season?
LOL I got a laugh from this on mlbtraderumors.com:
“The Yankees backed off on the Mike Cameron trade because Melky Cabrera is showing improved plate discipline in winter ball (his walk rate is up, though it’s only 15 games). Additionally, Brett Gardner has believers in the organization. ”
I’m sure that’s why they backed off Mike Cameron.
If we are going to be informed voters, then we need to have all the facts about travelling secretarygate. And that means we need the media to do some homework. Here are the questions I need answered:
1) How many tickets did Manny Ramirez want for the game in Houston? 17? 21? 43,361?
2) Why did Manny Ramirez want more than 16 tickets? Was he having a huge party in Houston and inviting all his friends and family? Is he part of a secret cult in Houston? Was he planning on selling the tickets on e-bay?
3) Why didn’t Boston want to give Manny Ramirez his tickets?
4) What are the particular fight clauses in Manny’s contract? Last I checked, petty skirmishes in which no one gets seriously injured are part of the job of baseball entertainment. When Manny joined Dodgers teammates in their fight during the playoffs, everyone was mad that he wasn’t actually angry, and was instead just performing. Are there a certain number of punches he needs to throw? Does he have to move his lips in a certain way? We need to be clear on the rules of baseball fighting here.
IM uninformed and unstraightened out M, Manny IS a no brainer. His ratings would without a doubt pay for his contract, so he is basically a cash machine for the Yanks. And he’s a good hitter that can protect A-Rod and support our new pitchers with some offense.
What they are doing is cruelly letting Andy dangle in the wind.
Or what they are doing is offering Andy more than they really think he’s worth and giving him a huge amount of time to decide what he wants to do.
Or what they are doing is negotiating with a player not currently under contract.
Whatever, I still think Andy and the Yankees will come to a mutual agreement and he will take the last spot in the rotation.
Why is it everybody here thinks Jeter and Damon had such a great year last year and there worth there contract.
Yet Manny for two or three years isn’t worth it.
Jeter at $18 million is a horrible thing in that lineup then Manny.
Torre again said Manny was a good player.Sounds good to me.
“The Yankees backed off on the Mike Cameron trade because Melky Cabrera is showing improved plate discipline in winter ball (his walk rate is up, though it’s only 15 games). Additionally, Brett Gardner has believers in the organization.”
Its a shame thats from Gammons.
MoBoy: can you quote from a single person on here who said that Jeter had a great year last year?
Jeter injured his wrist last season, unlike Manny never forgot whether it was his right or left wrist, he played through it.
Manny had a fight in the dugout with one of his team mates during a game, also knocked the 64 year old traveling secretary for the Sox to the ground for not obtaining enough tickets for a ballgame to suit Manny.
Have either Jeter or Damon ever been remotely linked to such behavior?
Manny’s a quiter, Damon and Jeter aren’t.
“aren’t the Yanks glad that he’s out of the AL east.”
The Mets won’t be, I could see it now bean ball war Mets vs Nats staring Cabrera.
Because I am working today, of course I check the blog every hour. Pete, please, for heavans sake, post a new post so I can stop seeing that rat Manny’s name at the top of the page. I am looking for new hobbies this summer in case the Yankees do sign Manny and I can no longer watch our team.
“MoBoy: can you quote from a single person on here who said that Jeter had a great year last year?”
You can qoute me: Jeter had a great year last year.
Not a Jeter-esque year, but he did win the Silver Slugger at SS. When you are the best at your position that is great.
“The Mets won’t be, I could see it now bean ball war Mets vs Nats staring Cabrera.”
that’s going to be the Met’s problems from now on.
“Not a Jeter-esque year, but he did win the Silver Slugger at SS. When you are the best at your position that is great.”
Dude it was a weak year for SS in the AL. Peralta had an off year and Young couldn’t catch on, I wouldn’t call it great I’d say ok.
Just cub reporting, and sorry if it was already posted, but MLB on XM had:
1. Chris Britton signed with SD.
2. Orlando Hudson interview had him virtually begging to come to NY to “be with his man CC. To be with my man Derek.”
Can Hudson play any other position besides 2B? He seemed willing to do anything.
3. Several analysts saying Tex is good, but not worth what Boras is asking for. Sense was while NYY could do a deal, the hitter that really makes opposing pitchers uncomfortable is Ramirez. Getting Manny for a 2-3 year deal would leave 1B open for when Pujols becomes an FA.
Thoughts?
“…and there worth there contract.”
A new low in literacy
“Can Hudson play any other position besides 2B? He seemed willing to do anything.”
Yes, he played a total of 22 minor league games in the OF.
here is what i don’t understand:
why must one imagine oneself a prison guard in order to be a “true” yankee fan?
news-flash: what happens at the plate is more interesting than what happens in the clubhouse, even if the clubhouse is a forbidden area for us little fans. i want to watch manny at the plate next year. i don’t want to hear some reporter’s stories about what the players do in the clubhouse. (although i did like that story about xavier nady coming out of the shower)
Also, they had Colletti (sp?) on and he was asked about CC telling him he wanted to be a Dodger. Colletti laughed, saying that what happened was he ran into CC and the two exchanged pleasantries and he (Colletti) told CC he had been watching him develop as a pitcher for years. That was it.
The next morning, the papers are reporting that CC told him that he wanted to be a Dodger. Colletti was amazed, but not surprised.
If Manny were to pay Boston back the money Boston paid him while playing in LA (from his own pocket) there could be an outside at redemption. I wouldn;t bet a nickel Manny would even consider it. Redemption would still be a long shot even if he did. He’d have to accept a few conditions:
How about a fine of $25,000 each time he poses at the plate after a HR?
How about a fine of $50,000 every time the ball is hit in play (or a bloop down the line behind 1st or 3rd base) but he waits or jogs a few steps to see if it lands (or lands fair) before running it out?
How about a fine of $100,000 every time he thinks it’s a HR so he poses or just doesn’t run it out, and the ball still lands in play?
How about a termination of contract clause for if he pushes or punches anyone, unless it’s to defend himself against an opponent who’s attacking him?
And (this is the important one) how about a termination of contract clause if he exhibits any displeasure with a ruling on any of these conditions or if he even mentions the idea of asking for a trade?
He’d never agree to it, but that’s what it’d take in my book. Take it or leave it, Manny.
Anybody else second the motion? Anybody? Hank? Hal? Cashman? Beuller?
“2. Orlando Hudson interview had him virtually begging to come to NY to “be with his man CC. To be with my man Derek.”
Can Hudson play any other position besides 2B? He seemed willing to do anything.”
You wanna play CF Hudson ?
Why would we want a player who really hates the Sox and has a hall of fame bat to back it up. I mean he was such a problem in Clevland and LA. There is no way the Sox front office did anything wrong. It was all Manny’s fault. If you dont think so just listen to Peter Gammons.!
To those wanting to offer Manny 3 years @25 per, why would the Yankees offer that much and not offer it to Teixiera? Offer Tex a mutual opt out after three years as part of a longer contract. If Tex wants to play here, he might take it. To me, Manny and Girardi is a poisonous mix.
1.) Arguably the best cleanup hitter in baseball.
2.) Probably the most clutch hitter in baseball.
3.) Will want to absolutely crush the Boston Red Sox, the arch enemy of all Yankee fans.
4.) Reportedly is “obsessed” with reaching 600 home runs.
5.) Perhaps can calm A-Rod down in the playoffs.
Yeah Pete, I’m not thinking straight at all….(end sarcasm).
The Manny haters are hilarious. I agree that what he did with the Red Sox last year was far from dignified. But, what other cons are there? None. So to me, this would be a no-brainer decision.
“Reportedly is “obsessed” with reaching *700* home runs.”
Just wanted to correct you here.
Melky is tearing up Winter Ball – hitting .325 with a HR, 6 doubles, with a .410 OBP
Vince, I agree .. you’d need to be lacking a brain to sign Manny.
“You wanna play CF Hudson ?”
does he want a cheap contract too if he does wanna be with Jeter and CC?
Brandon…
“You wanna play CF Hudson ?”
Exactly. Is that one of those ‘too stupid to believe” questions, or does that make some sense?
Vince…
Also, exactly. Pete can say what he wants, but numerous coaches and players on MLB on XM ALL said that Manny in the NYY line up is a far more potent team than with Tex. They seemed to imply that while Tex is a very good hitter, he is not a game changer. Manny is seen as such by all who discussed the subject.
C’mon Vince … ya gotta admit that was funny on some level, whether you agree or not.
“Melky is tearing up Winter Ball – hitting .325 with a HR, 6 doubles, with a .410 OBP”
A big reason he wasn’t thought of and probably is still not highly thought of is his party behavior during the season and coming to camp out of shape and ending the season in worse shape.
Baldelli’s the off-season steal waiting to happen. Not w/o risk I agree, but a there’s got to be a mutually fair cost worth considering it at.
Hudson batting 3rd stats: .370 OBP, .312 BA, 56 Ks in 97 games.
…he could be our #3 hitter if he does agree to play in the OF.
NO I’m not purposing the Yanks to sign him.
The Yanks would never give Manny a three-year deal.
How insane would that be? Even more insane than giving five years to Burnett.
The only way Manny becomes a Yankee is if his market completely collapses and he falls into their laps on a one-year deal.
Manny is not exactly Cashman’s and Girardi’s kind of player and you better believe their opinions count.
Cashman hasn’t been preaching the “get younger, get more athletic, get better defensively” mantra the past few months just to turn around and sign Manny.
They already have a left fielder and they already have a DH.
All this Manny talk is nonsense. He’s not coming to the Yanks.
“does he want a cheap contract too if he does wanna be with Jeter and CC?”
Worth a try, also I’d bold this late breaking info just incase a Yankees FO official is reading this blog * coughs *…Cashman …* coughs * Cashman…EXCUSE ME.
“Baldelli’s the off-season steal waiting to happen. Not w/o risk I agree, but a there’s got to be a mutually fair cost worth considering it at.”
He’s still a risk day to day body health wise.
“Worth a try, also I’d bold this late breaking info just incase a Yankees FO official is reading this blog * coughs *…Cashman …* coughs * Cashman…EXCUSE ME.”
Hudson could had at least text Cashman.
Pete,
I know the Yanks have spent a ton of money already this offseason and it’s unrealistic to think they would be willing to drop another 200mil on Tex, but wouldn’t they be interested if he was a free agent next year? What’s the difference if they spend this year or next. There are no bats like his at a position of such need next off season, so why not go for him now and just not spend next winter? I know it’s extravagant Yankee fan thinking to think they could sign another big player after CC and Burnett, but long term I would think it could make some kind of sense. Just my humble opinion.
“C’mon Vince … ya gotta admit that was funny on some level, whether you agree or not.
”
Don’t worry, my feelings don’t get hurt over internet discussions.
However, please, give me some reasons that support your side, besides the obligatory “Manny is a cancer”, or “Manny knocked down a travel agent”.
GrouchoNYY December 20th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
To those wanting to offer Manny 3 years @25 per, why would the Yankees offer that much and not offer it to Teixiera? Offer Tex a mutual opt out after three years as part of a longer contract. If Tex wants to play here, he might take it. To me, Manny and Girardi is a poisonous mix.
———————–
Which is precisely why Girardi must change a bit and loosen up, or his days in NY will be numbered. The manager cannot be bigger than the team, and the team cannot/should not be expected to be a corporate machine without problems and personalities.
Manny is a game changer, and I expect that his deal will be his last and he’s going to be thinking about his legacy to some extent. Add the fact that he’ll be playing to some extent in front of his hometown crowd, and he has less reasons to “act out.”
Teix is not that kind of player, and while he’s very good, he’s not $23 million-a-year good. Ramirez IS worth $25 million. I have to say that a team with him, CC, AJ, Swisher, and a returning Pettitte makes me very excited and optimistic about the Yankees making it deep into the playoffs.
According to David Kaplan of WGN Radio and Comcast SportsNet, Adam Dunn’s first choice is to play for the Cubs. **He’s not looking for a huge deal, but a fair one.** The concern, of course, would be having Dunn play right field on a regular basis.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-firs.html
———-
Cashman, you reading this? At least speak with his agents, like you did with Sheets.
Melky .325/.410 in winter ball? Sounds good. If he can translate anything even resembling .300/.400 to the big leagues, he’d win his spot back. If he’s still here in March, he can show ‘em in spring training games then maybe he’ll get another shot after the season starts.
If it’s him & Gardner fighting for 1 or 2 OF spots and they hit like they hit last year, that won’t be good. If they can both show even close to .300 with patience to boot, then we may have something.
be back later dudes.
if you wanna reply back to what i wrote, jus do it and i catch it later.
Vince – We agree on his positives. I just feel his negatives negate them. We can agree to disagree on that …
im stuck in the middle
if we get manny for 2 years for a reasonable price and place him behind arod in the lineup, then we are in business baby
but then again do we really want all the baggage he brings?
if we get him, ill be happy, if we dont get him but still gat another bat then ill be happy, the obvious is that we need a bat
What’s the problem, give him a 2 year $54M contract and everybody will be happy, he gets’s his money and we get just 2 years.
Who will wear numbers 21-25-35-and 45 in 2009 ?
Vince,
You overlook Manny’s behavior as if the guy is just a little quirky. If that were the case, he’d still be playing in Boston and his former teammates and manager wouldn’t hate him.
That doesn’t even begin to list his other negatives like age and the fqact that he can’t play defense at all.
Putting Manny in LF makes this the worst defensive team in the AL – probably the majors.
When was the last time the worst defensive team in the league advanced to the World Series (or made the playoffs for that matter)?
Defense means something in this game, ya know. You cannot simply overlook that.
They also can’t make Manny the DH because they’ve already got Matsui. They aren’t paying Matsui $13M to sit on the bench and he doesn’t have any trade value because of his age and health.
So besides all the negatives that come with his baggage – they really don’t have room for him anyways.
We don’t disagree that the Yanks will probably need another bat at some point – but it won’t be Manny. There are other bats who will be available who don’t come with that kind of baggage and downside.
CB
With Dunn I see a good player on a bad team who actually ends up scoring at a good rate per hit.
Vipr…
“All this Manny talk is nonsense. He’s not coming to the Yanks.”
For what it’s worth, MLB on XM has the update that Hal and Hank have overruled Cashman wrt Manny.
sure
who does not want .320 35-45- and 130 in the middle of the lineup.
Hank? So the horse tranquilizers have finally worn off?
What’s the problem, give him a 2 year $54M contract and everybody will be happy, he gets’s his money and we get just 2 years.
———-
Not really.
Cashman and Hal have both said repeatedly that they intend on lowering the payroll and will not exceed a specified number that has already been determined by the FO.
And that doesn’t even take into account his baggage and the fact there is no room for him.
A.B.K,
the problem is that some people dont want him AT ALL, not for even one year no matter what the price
i personally prefer him over adam dunn
“Hank? So the horse tranquilizers have finally worn off?”
LOL
For what it’s worth, MLB on XM has the update that Hal and Hank have overruled Cashman wrt Manny.
———-
What Hank wants really doesn’t matter as evidenced by the past year.
And there are conflicting reports that Hal is not sold on Manny.
I also don’t think Hal would overrule his GM on this issue – the same guy they believed in enough to sign to a three-year extension just a couple of months ago.
We need clutch hitters. We need Manny or Tex!
TBQ – Uni number 45 should be unofficially retired in that it should be left unused w/o being retired.
And – I wish CC woulda taken 21 so the Paulie thing would end. I’m a fan of Paulie’s but you can’t retire his number.
The next ’savior’ level player acquired by trade or FA should be given 21.
Anyone who happens to be pro-Manny and pro-retire 21 would go nuts if for some idiotic reason they did sign Manny and he actually chose 21.
It wouldn’t bug me, being a fan of Paulie and not a fan of Manny’s if he came and took 21. It’d be a disgrace if he wore any Yanks uniform not just 21 … that’s what would bug me.
‘Pro-Manny’ & ‘retire 21′ don’t seem to go together though. Considering all the intangibles Paul stood for how could you back what Manny stands for? Schizophrenic?
If the Yanks signed Manny I’d even boo him after he hits a HR.
I’m not sure if anyone watched the 2008 season, or knows that we lost our #3 and #5 hitters, and replaced them with Nick Swisher and TBD. FYI- Thats 200 RBI and 160 run scored. Just sayin’
Eric – We also replaced out first baseman with someone who can actually field the position.
It’ll be a ‘different look’ I guess you could say ….
All of you knocking down a short term (2-3 years) signing of Manny will be the first ones here to jump for joy when he hits HR’s in in Sox series and elsewhere. Get real and respect that he is a great hitter.
I gave up long ago counting on Arod to be Mr. Clutch.
“For what it’s worth, MLB on XM has the update that Hal and Hank have overruled Cashman wrt Manny.”
Really? Well, then let them address the media the first time Manny does something completely ridiculous, which won’t take long.
By the way, does anyone know how old our Traveling Secretary is? Is this someone who can adequately defend themselves when attacked?
Last year Big G fielded so badly, some fans would’ve given their left … uhh … eye … ball … to have Doug Mientkiewicz and his .220 bat back because he could defend the position.
Laura, the Yankees should hire this guy for Traveling Secretary if they sign Manny…
http://thebeautybrains.com/wp-.....uscles.jpg
“I’m not sure if anyone watched the 2008 season, or knows that we lost our #3 and #5 hitters, and replaced them with Nick Swisher and TBD. FYI- Thats 200 RBI and 160 run scored. Just sayin’”
Didn’t you hear? We’re going to be okay because Robbie Cano is going to channel Rod Carew and have a banner season, Posada is going to have the same year he did in 2007 and Matsui is going to hit 50 dingers, just like he did when he was in Japan and was 5-7 years younger.
The offense will be fine.
I’m not sure if anyone watched the 2008 season, or knows that we lost our #3 and #5 hitters, and replaced them with Nick Swisher and TBD. FYI- Thats 200 RBI and 160 run scored. Just sayin’
————–
Nobody has said they can’t use a bat. But Manny and/or Teixeira aren’t the only options available.
People need to remember that signing the biggest bats on the market hasn’t helped this team win any rings the last few years.
“I’m not sure if anyone watched the 2008 season, or knows that we lost our #3 and #5 hitters, and replaced them with Nick Swisher and TBD. FYI- Thats 200 RBI and 160 run scored. Just sayin’”
Defensively maybe but offensively, Jorge and Matsui are expected to pick up the slack for Abreu and Giambi. Swisher and TBD is picking up the slack for Molina and the bench player du jour that was playing. Now the task seems less difficult.
“Laura, the Yankees should hire this guy for Traveling Secretary if they sign Manny…”
Wow. I doubt Manny will be beating that guy up. LOL!
Accuscore has the NYYs winning the ALE with the signing of CC and AJ AND either a moderatley successful Aceves or the return of Andy (seems likely).
http://accuscore.com/mlb/artic.....n-burnett/
Has anyone seen an Accuscore analysis (or the equivalent) of adding Manny? Currently they have the Yankees winning 97 games. Sure its a projection, but it’s fun.
And the assessment is that if Andy does come back, the NYY will have a starting line up that will require the RS to buy Tex to stay competitive. If the Yanks get Andy and add Manny, it won’t matter what the RS (or anyone else) does.
I don’t care if Melky was hitting .800 in winter ball, he still sucks. We all know Melky is a decent AAAA player, he’s just not cut out for the BIG leagues. He’s a slappy hitter at best. His upside is a 4th OF. However, if I want a 4th OF I want Brett Gardner who can provide Dave Roberts speed off the bench.
Manny quit so badly on the Red Sux last year in July that his stats that month were terrible: .473 OB%, 1.060 OPS. But he wasn’t trying hard. Apparently his not trying hard is better than 97% of the league. But I digress….I think in the 19 games that he would play against the Red Sux, we can book 25 homers. I exaggerate maybe a smidge.
Vince
December 20th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
1.) Arguably the best cleanup hitter in baseball.
2.) Probably the most clutch hitter in baseball.
3.) Will want to absolutely crush the Boston Red Sox, the arch enemy of all Yankee fans.
4.) Reportedly is “obsessed” with reaching 600 home runs.
5.) Perhaps can calm A-Rod down in the playoffs.
Yeah Pete, I’m not thinking straight at all….(end sarcasm).
The Manny haters are hilarious. I agree that what he did with the Red Sox last year was far from dignified. But, what other cons are there? None. So to me, this would be a no-brainer decision.
It’s a shame we’ve got so many DH candidates over the next three years. I think this – and not the anti-Manny Moralism – is the reason this wouldn’t happen. Otherwise, it IS a no-brainer. I’m still tempted to do it and figure it out after the fact. The guy’s just too good.
Laura – those stats are telling. But you beg the question on Manny.
“People need to remember that signing the biggest bats on the market hasn’t helped this team win any rings the last few years.”
That had more to do with our subpar pitching than the offense. In recent years, we’ve had teams that could handle the long push, but not the short run. If you want to be successful in the postseason, you need good pitching. We have that now. What we are lacking is the offense that can sustain 162 games to even get us to the postseason. We need another bat. Cashman knows this. He’s just waiting to let the dust settle before he makes his next move.
That had more to do with our subpar pitching than the offense. In recent years, we’ve had teams that could handle the long push, but not the short run. If you want to be successful in the postseason, you need good pitching. We have that now. What we are lacking is the offense that can sustain 162 games to even get us to the postseason. We need another bat. Cashman knows this. He’s just waiting to let the dust settle before he makes his next move.
—————–
They need to improve their defense as well. And Manny sure as hell doesn’t provide that.
If any of us had “Will quit on team at great expense and be otherwise selfish, impish & unprofessional at times” on our resumes rather than the usual “Professional, team player” stuff, should we expect to get the ideal job & salary in our fields just as Manny expects?
“One-dimensional skills” vs “Diverse, versatile talents”?
I realize that Manny has had some classic fielding situations in Fenway and elswhere. But I don’t have that many memories of Manny playing lousy in Yankee Stadium Left Field.
Can anyone cite me to actual events when that happened?
one of the other real problems with manny is where do put him? i like him but there is no way in hell would i want to see him patrolling the outfield, if u DH him then what happens to matsui?
D Cabrera to the Nationals. Hope the Mets have their insurance paid up.
one of the other real problems with manny is where do put him? i like him but there is no way in hell would i want to see him patrolling the outfield, if u DH him then what happens to matsui?
————
Something else the Yanks would have to worry about is would Manny be happy as the everyday DH?
He’s always played the field and was only a DH temporarily when Ortiz was out with injuries.
Sounds stupid, but hey, when you make the decision to sign Manny – that’s the kind of stuff they’ll have to deal with – making sure Manny is happy and not quitting on his teammates again.
I don’t see Cashman doing it. Manny is definitely not his kind of player.
“one of the other real problems with manny is where do put him? i like him but there is no way in hell would i want to see him patrolling the outfield, if u DH him then what happens to matsui?”
I think the Yankees know that if they get Manny, they aren’t putting him in LF unless they move Damon (which AJ doesn’t want them to do). If they want him to DH, that requires a trade of Matsui, which I would not do either. Pete claims that Matsui doesn’t have any trade value. While I disagree, it really doesn’t matter. To me, it would be the ultimate insult to trade a respectful, professional player like Matsui for an unprofessional, pain in the rear player like Manny.
manny confident that the yanks will give him a tree year offer yansks sign him theres not onaother clutch free agent out there sign him now
Manny update:
According to the Daily News,
“Ramirez has been a hot topic inside the Yankees organization, according to an industry source, though not everybody within the team’s hierarchy is in agreement when it comes to signing the enigmatic slugger.
Hank Steinbrenner is leading the charge for the signing, the source said, hoping to reload his roster after watching the Yankees miss the postseason this year for the first time since 1993. Hal Steinbrenner is said to be warming to the idea, while general manager Brian Cashman isn’t too high on adding a 36-year-old outfielder with plenty of baggage.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....st_th.html
So Vipr, the MLB on XM rumors about Hank and Hal just might be valid, but who knows until things settle out.
The article sheds some useful light on how Manny sees the dominos falling.
manny confident that the yanks will give him a tree year offer yansks sign him theres not onaother clutch free agent out there sign him now
———–
Manny was confident that he’d have more than zero offers on the table right now too and that hasn’t worked out too well.
“manny confident that the yanks will give him a tree year offer yansks sign him theres not onaother clutch free agent out there sign him now”
There’s this thing known as a period. Look into it.
ansky
If the Yanks signed Manny I’d even boo him after he hits a HR.
ansky ur teling me if manny hits a walk off homerun lets say to win a game 7 world series game for the yankees and he wins it ur goin to boo i dont believe that
Ha Ha Ha. There’s this thing known as spell check too. F7 Baby!
Honestly, why take Myknee Ramirez’s payroll and attitude when you have Adam Dunn who is still on the market? Dunn is a power lefty who’s still in his 20’s. Though his BA and K’s per at bat are scary, he averages one home run per 14 at bats and has a respectable OBP. I think we should see what market there is for Matsui/Cabrera and pick up Dunn.
“Manny was confident that he’d have more than zero offers on the table right now too and that hasn’t worked out too well.”
It is poetic justice that Manny finds himself in this situation. He did all of that stuff to get out of BOS in the hopes of landing some mega contract. Here it is, almost January and no one has taken the bait. All of his work done for naught. He is getting exactly what he deserves.
Personally I think Manny is EXACTLY what Girardi needs in that clubhouse.
“Honestly, why take Myknee Ramirez’s payroll and attitude when you have Adam Dunn who is still on the market?”
Myknee Ramirez? LOL!! Shouldn’t it be WhichKnee Ramirez?
“Personally I think Manny is EXACTLY what Girardi needs in that clubhouse.”
Someone to turn the rest of his hair gray?
Feinsand has been reporting something completely different than everyone else.
He and Heyman think it’s a possibility – but guys like Kepner, Jack Curry, Pete, Kat O’Brien, Davidoff, Olney, and Gammons all think these rumors are bogus and far-fetched.
I guess we’ll find out for certain sooner or later, but there’s a lot more concrete evidence that the second group is more accurate on this issue.
Manny isn’t just any kind of “big bat”– he’s one of the best right handed hitters of all time and shows no signs of slowing badly.
LF Johnny Damon
CF Brett Gardner
RF Manny Ramirez
DH Hideki Matsui
i would look to trade Nady & Kennedy. and try get Saltamacchia
What if I were to tell you that I know Manny’s best friend, and he says he will be a yankee.. Would you believe me? Check back when the story hits
It is poetic justice that Manny finds himself in this situation. He did all of that stuff to get out of BOS in the hopes of landing some mega contract. Here it is, almost January and no one has taken the bait. All of his work done for naught. He is getting exactly what he deserves.
——–
Agreed, completely. All that crap is finally catching up to him and it’s well deserved.
“RF Manny Ramirez”
Now we want Manny to learn a new position?
What if I were to tell you that I know Manny’s best friend, and he says he will be a yankee.. Would you believe me? Check back when the story hits
———
I’d say good for you but that doesn’t really mean jack.
He’s going to sign with the team who offers him the most money (which is why he chose Boras) and the Yanks aren’t bloody likely to be that team.
What he wants and what Cashman wants are probably two different things. I bet they don’t even make him a serious offer.
AROD fan December 20th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Personally I think Manny is EXACTLY what Girardi needs in that clubhouse.
——————————————————-
LOL
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Sorry..just forming some mental images of Manny on the team and his interactions with Girardi.
“He’s going to sign with the team who offers him the most money (which is why he chose Boras) and the Yanks aren’t bloody likely to be that team.”
They better not be, especially since they are balking at Tex because of the money. How can they explain signing a 36yr old with tons of baggage, but won’t pony up for a 28yr old guy who comes with no baggage and actually plays a position we need filled?
If they do sign Manny, Cashman better have a good answer for Yankees fans.
This cant be true. The blog source on Manny, Brandon, has said he doesnt want to play here. How could this be possible?
Without looking it up, I suggest that Manny’s career fielding percentage is no worse than average. Only when Ortiz was out with his health issues did he spend appreciable time as a DH.
I agree, but if he does want to be a yankee, it’s possible he will put his options in more realistic terms.. He’s a very simple person, I’m not all too sure money is the only thing that motivates him.. That being said, I’m just saying he wants to be a yankee and that his friend said he would be. This leads me to believe an offer is out there that he is considering taking.
“Shouldn’t it be WhichKnee Ramirez?”
lmaoooo
This cant be true. The blog source on Manny, Brandon, has said he doesnt want to play here. How could this be possible?
———–
I think we learned a lot about “friends” and unnamed sources in the Sabathia negotiations because most of them had him going to the West Coast.
“He’s a very simple person”
You’re joking, right? I don’t think there’s a more complicated player in the game (except for maybe A-Rod) than Manny. Manny is an immense talent, but a clubhouse cancer, who plays when he wants to play and loafs when he wants to loaf. He’s a crappy fielder and an even worse liar. He’s self centered and money hungry. He doesn’t love or respect the game. He’s capable of violence when he doesn’t get his way.
The fact that people are even considering having this loser put on pinstripes is mind blogging.
I don’t know why it would mind-boggling, the Yankees’ offense is suspect and Manny is a lethal hitter. It would be mind-boggling for them not to at least consider him. Ultimately, I think he goes elsewhere.
But if a port-a-potty suddenly appears in left field, look out for Manny.
these yankee stadium photos are great:
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....-photos-2/
Tex is going to sign with Boston. That kind of takes away the luster of the signings of CC and AJ.
“I don’t know why it would mind-boggling, the Yankees’ offense is suspect and Manny is a lethal hitter. ”
Nick, it’s mind boggling because when Manny was doing his shenanigans in BOS, the same fans that are on here clamoring for him were criticizing him and BOS’s ownership for allowing him to get away with that crap. Now that he’s a free agent, all of a sudden, his behavior is okay with them. They don’t care what he does as long as he hits in the clutch and terrorizes BOS when we play them. The hypocrisy is vomit inducing.
Dutch Hugo
December 20th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Let’s see Peter, if we agree with you we’re “thinking straight” and if we don’t we’re not… Because you’ve been so right about Phil Franchise and Ian “I got out of the second so I did a good job” Kennedy????
Manny was Manny when the Red Sox got him, that didn’t just start last year. They lived with his antics for years. Tell me again, how many world series did they win with him?
The Yanks were pitiful hitting in the clutch last year (actually for several years), and two of the guys who at least got a few clutch hits (Abreu and Giambi) are now gone. They NEED another big bat in that lineup, one who can actually put the bat on the ball in the clutch. Manny for two years would be great in that lineup.
Thank God Peter doesn’t run the team. If he did, we’d have never gone after CC or any pitching, just handed the jobs to Phil Phranchise and Kennedy again, based on the fact that they pitched a few decent innings in the ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE!
————————————————————
pete a is going with the numbers as evidence in wich you do not have in you;re favor.they also did a vote on wfan & most did not wan’t manny either.
just because you wan’t the yankees you are critisizing & trying to justify it.you are in the minority so stop beating on pete.hughes & kennedy also can’t be judged yet.hughes is going to be good but i’m not sure about kennedy.
the yankees all have to pitch,hit & play defense to win it all.it is not about just manny or tex.
what happens if manny hits but cano,damon,posada,matsui do not? they won’t go anywhere.
the 90’s teams everybody contributed.
nobody knows if we definately need manny or tex.the yankees have to score 1 more run than their opponent & it does not matter how they do it.
everybody keeps screaming we need manny,tex,dunn or the yankees aren’t going anywhere but in reality nobody knows.
just because boston has a better lineup on paper & good pitching does not mean they will finish ahead of us.they have to finish ahead of us.don’t get confused on how teams look on paper.detroit is an example of that.
the yankees need to make a nice trade for a cf to balance the team out.
just because you wan’t manny on the yankees(correction)
Laura, you’re painting with a broad brush. Sign-Manny proponents come in many flavors. Some are hypocrites, sure, but a lot of people are just seduced by Manny’s hitting prowess. When Manny was doing his shenanigans in Boston he was also helping them win two titles. Hence, many people are torn. That doesn’t mean that they don’t care what Manny does or had done, it just means they want to win and think Manny would help achieve that.
Laura – You keep wanting to be logical. This is a blog, after all….
I think after all is said and done (not soon enough), I think Manny will wind up elsewhere. As Pete very logically pointed out in a previous post of his – Hal (who, after all, is the one who is most involved with the team) didn’t retain Cashman in order to NOT listen to him.
Personally, the thought of Manny taking three called strikes against Papelbon because Joe doesn’t buy into his knee “hurting” makes me shudder.
If Yankees brass is disagreeing about Manny, I say compromise and get Teixeira. he’s a much better fit.
Manny, while still a force, has shown signs of a decline the last few years outside of his great few months in LA. He also is high maintanence and quit on the Sox last year. No thanks.
I honestly don’t see what the big objection to signing Teixeira for 8 years is? He will turn 29 this year. That means 6 of his 8 years will be in his prime under 35. He’ll be signed through age 36, not 40. Is the money obscene, yes. But it’s hardly prohibitive. Teix is a better all around ballplayer than Manny and fits the Yankees mold of getting younger and more athletic. He may not be a superstar but he is the perfect fit for the Yankees. Sign him and I believe the Yanks win the East this year. If they don’t, I anticipate it being much harder.
As for holding first base, it’s pretty clear Posada doesn’t want to play there. After this year the DH spot will open up for Jorge, so no worries there. Jeter doesn’t have the power to play first base. he’d be better suited for the outfield. Montero is still years away. For all we know he could be a bust, and if he hits here are options, such as DH when Posada is gone. Or if Montero is as good as advertised, perhaps he could be traded when ready (Montero for David Price in a few years?) There’s really no good reason not to go after Teixeira (at least for 8 years) imo.
“That doesn’t mean that they don’t care what Manny does or had done, it just means they want to win and think Manny would help achieve that.”
But at what cost? Are people that desperate to win that they are willing to put up with any sort of unprofessional behavior from players? It’s not like we’re the Cubs and we haven’t won in 100 years. It’s only been 8.
I get what you are saying, Nick, but my mind isn’t going to change where Manny is concerned. I don’t care how many titles he would help us win. He doesn’t belong on the Yankees.
“Laura – You keep wanting to be logical. This is a blog, after all….”
I know. One of these days, I’ll learn.
If Cash is overruled by Hank/Hal for Manny, I can see him resigning and walking away citing not having full autonomy.
laura i believe manny came up as a right fielder
Re: Manny Ramirez tanking it.
I’m gonna keep this simple for those with selective memories or hidden agendas (ex: we want Tex)
2004 Manny helps Sox kill the curse
2007 Manny helps Sox to 2nd WS title
2008 Boston refuses to pick up Manny’s option, completely ignoring all of his contributions towards 2004 and 2007 WS rings.
2008 Manny decides to rebel, tanks it and demands a trade
2008 Boston smears Manny, trades him and turns Red Sox fans against him
While I agree Manny acted unprofessionally when he mailed it in last year, we must also recognize the level of ingratitude the Sox displayed in denying Manny 2 more years on a team that he not only helped build but saved from eternal embarrassment.
This one is for those of you at home keeping score.
I believe the upgrade in CF is plan-B while plan A is to sign the hometown boy Manny Ramirez.
After watching the offensive woes last year, some people are just that desperate, yes. Especially with the window closing on the players from the dynasty teams.
Manny’s antics will be a factor in the Yanks not signing him, I think, but I think they could put up with that if the move made more baseball sense.
wow those picture are great, and the seats look soo comfy!!
For the record, Manny demanded a trade from the Red Sox several times – but the last time proved most effective because he quit on the team.
Also, if you recall, Theo put Manny through waivers on more than one occasion hoping another team would bite and take his contract off their hands.
You just cannot simply overlook his baggage. He’d have a lot more than zero offers on the table if his past and behavior didn’t provoke so much hesitancy from every GM out there.
He’s not going to change now and Cashman isn’t going to bite.
banshee12 December 20th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
these yankee stadium photos are great:
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....-photos-2/
———————————————
Great pictures!
Though I think they forgot to buy light bulbs for one of the “E’s” Maybe that money went to the feed CC fund?
Re: Sox treatment of Manny
“Theo put Manny through waivers”
To do this after 2004 was a huge slap in the face. To not pick up his option after a repeat in 2007 – an even worse display of ingratitude and disrespect.
Their organization is more dehumanizing than any in baseball. If the numbers don’t compute in their calculators, your loyalty and dedication is for not.
“Ramirez’s effort to force his way out of Boston — his lack of competitive integrity — seems to be having a devastating effect on his market. At a time when teams are carefully doling out money, there seems to be a great reluctance to invest multiple years in a player who has a history of quitting.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ney_buster
Manny,
“The Red Sox don’t deserve a player like me,” Ramirez said. “During my years here, I’ve seen how they [the Red Sox] have mistreated other great players when they didn’t want them to try to turn the fans against them.
“The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy,” Ramirez added. “I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don’t deserve me. I’m not talking about money. Mental peace has no price, and I don’t have peace here.”
Re: Manny and his ‘history of quitting’
Selective amnesia laced with spin.
History occured in 2004 and 2007 and Manny was present in full force.
The Sox have a history of quitting on Manny.
After 2004, they put him through waivers.
After 2007, they refused to pick up his option.
Quitters.
I got this from his best friend that has known him for decades.. And going by the logic of his antics, those of us who have busted their butt at work and gotten jack for a raise and no bonus understand his reaction. You’re a professional but you’re a human too. His contributions were clear and the sox were going to stiff him. Simple.
Yea, I’m sure peter will take the high road like he normally does.. I always hear the holy professionalism of baseball speech.. Arod has antics too, don’t want him either? When Manny signs, remember me
Btw, people say he dogged it.. He was hitting .300 and had like 25 homers, i’d want someone to be dogging it like that for us too.
Putting a player on waivers or not picking up his option is not unethical. Unwise, perhaps, heartless, perhaps, but not unethical.
What Manny did in 2008 was unethical.
Laura, Manny doesn’t belong on the Yankees, but guys like Pettite, Clemens and Giambi do? Pettite is a self-proclaimed cheater who admitted to using HGH, and the Yankees are still welcoming him back with a nice $10M contract for one year.
Please don’t proclaim who should be and shouldn’t be on the Yankees. Manny quit on the Red Sox because he was sick of their attitude towards him, and always painting him as the bad guy. He never got the credit he deserved on that team. The Red Sox have always been scumbags who’ve never appreciated their players, and smeared them on the way out. I will never sympathize with that team, and will give Manny the benefit of the doubt.
If a cheater like Pettite is being welcomed back to our team, there should be no arguement against Manny. The man knows how to play the game as good as anyone, and he would be lethal batting behind A-Rod.
Hank will make it happened. Book it.
Manny is an artist. You really must respect the artist and understand his performance is sometimes sad clown, sometimes happy snake charmer, sometimes rock star, sometimes alligator wrestler, sometimes topiary sculptor, sometimes organic farmer, sometimes baseball slugger, sometimes intense-face-manboy, sometimes chia pet spokesmodel, sometimes big-wheel enthusiast, sometimes eBay addict.
He is a man of many faces and you will love him.
Re: Manny on waivers
Ingratitude of the highest order. After 2004?
This is from CC’s official site: http://ccsabathia52.com
“Who are the toughest batters to face?
I know that you can’t throw Manny, ARod and Jeter the same pitch twice.”
He could end up having all three as teammates!
Bret the Hitman December 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Re: Manny and his ‘history of quitting’
Selective amnesia laced with spin.
History occured in 2004 and 2007 and Manny was present in full force.
The Sox have a history of quitting on Manny.
After 2004, they put him through waivers.
After 2007, they refused to pick up his option.
Quitters.
——-
WRONG! They placed him on waivers after the 2003 season. Big difference.
Pedro,
The three-time Cy Young Award winner said his new club, the New York Mets “have shown more respect in days than Boston did in seven years …”
“[Red Sox GM Theo Epstien] got really arrogant on [my agent] and I didn’t appreciate it. Theo believed that he had me and wasn’t the nicest man communicating with Fernando.”
Organic farmer? Manny should play ball up in Humboldt County.
And all those people that are saying manny doesn’t have any offers are just taking wild guesses.. The Yankees and dodgers are just two of the offers he has. What those offers are, I don’t know, but if you think someone with THESE stats on the dodgers isn’t getting offers, you’re dilusional.
G:53 AB:187 R:36 H:74 2B:14 HR:17 avg:.396 .OBP:489 Slug:.743 OPS:1.232
For the season he had a .332 avg with obp of .430 and SLG% of .601.. Please tell me you aren’t serious that he has zero offers..
ahhh. Humboldt county.
If we do get Manny, I wonder which member of the Yankees organization he will get into an altercation with?
Cashman? Nah
Hank? Maybe
Prince Hal? No, don’t see it.
Randy Levine? I would actually welcome this. Do it Manny
Felix Lopez? Maybe
Manny on LA: ‘I want to stay here’ – … “I want peace,” he said. “After the game [Friday night], I went out to dinner and nobody bothers you. In Boston, you go from the stadium straight home. That’s what I’m talking about. Some people recognized me, said congratulations, that’s it. I could go to the movies with my family. I’ve got nothing against Boston, but this is what I’m looking for. The game is supposed to be fun.
“Playing baseball is a job that gives you a lot of fame. But I don’t play for fame. I will always do my best, because I love the game.”
Sincerely,
Manny
they put manny on waivers after he demanded to be traded like a hundred times, to show him that nobody would take his contract. they were right.
and anybody who says he didnt quit is on drugs. all you have to do is watch that pinch hit AB vs. the yankees last year to see a quitter in mid season form.
Manny and Hank will get along well.. like brothers.
They are very alike. Thats why Hank likes Manny so much- he sees a little bit of himself in him. If Hank were a ball player, he would be Manny.
S.A.: I could see Manny wrestling with one of Hank’s horses.
Manny does quit on his team, but he is still to tempting to pass up.
You’d have to have a pre-arranged deal with him that he won’t quit late in the season, against the Red Sox, or in the playoffs. If he decides to quit, it needs to be in some meaningless June series against the Royals.
As long as Manny agrees not to dog it during important games, I’ll give him his 3/$69 mil.
If Hank were a ball player, he would be smoking cigarettes in the outfield during the game.
Nick-I think the horse would win that fight and then after Manny would ask the horse to come with him to the movies
if posada and matsui and swish bounce back nicely then i dont think we need manny and or teix
but last season our rotation was full of “if’s” and look what happened to it.
granted, in the world of baseball, nothing is a sure thing, but its always nice to have a back up plan. i dont think we NEED manny, but it would be nice to pick up someone who has continuously put up great numbers
As long as Manny agrees not to dog it during important games, I’ll give him his 3/$69 mil.
yeah, sure. didnt u notice that he had a ‘mystery illness’ just about every year vs the yankees? like last year, when he faked his way out of one series, then pulled that crap where he gave himself the day off and didnt want to pinch-hit in another yankees series.
if you’re gonna dog it, why dog it in front of 16 thousand royals fans? you get alot more ego pump when you do it in front of the hated rivals.
“it needs to be in some meaningless June series against the Royals.”
thats the attitude that landed the yanks (amonst other things) in third place
those “meaningless” games eventually come back to bite you, no game is meaningless.
Most agents won’t let the “promise you won’t quit on us, ok?” clause into a contract.
GB-7
This is one example I found where the team has an opt out clause on a player. Interesting, since I’m sure it’s going to be hard to get insurance these days on a significant portion of a players salary.
J.D. Drew of
5 years/$70M (2007-11)
5 years/$70M (2007-11)
signed by Boston as a free agent 1/07
07:$14M, 08:$14M, 09:$14M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M
limited no-trade clause allowing Drew to block deals to 2 clubs
$9M of 2011 salary will be deferred at 1% interest unless Drew plays 500 games from 2007 to 2010 or 375 games from 2008 to 2010
Boston may opt out of either of final 2 seasons if Drew:
spends 35 days on the disabled list in either 2009 or 2010 with injury related to pre-existing right shoulder condition, or
finishes 2009 or 2010 season on the disabled list and cannot play outfield the following season
i think we have enough offense, but only if they start playing smarter, tighter baseball. in tighter, lower scoring games the productive outs and smart at-bats make the difference. we havent been good at that in a long time (since we gave up on role-players and went the all-star-at-every-position route.)
If Boston gets Teixeira, there will be even more love for Manny in LoHudville. (New poll required.)
2003: Bos loses ALCS to Yankees in heartbreaking fashion
2004: Boston acquires Curt Schilling/ dumps Nomar for defensive upgrade of Doug M. and Cabrera…Yankees lose ALCS in heartbreaking fashion. Shuts down Cards to sweep WS.
2005: Boston gets knocked out of playoffs by White Sox
2006: Boston fails to make playoffs
2007: Boston acquires Matsuzaka/Okajima wins WS
To me it seems more about pitching acquisitions and defense and less about Manny.
“decline”? thats the kind of decline i’d want hitting cleanup
Yankee have some major outfield problems.
LF- Damon
CF- Gardner/Cabera
RF- Nady
Don’t expect to see the 2008 Nady. He has been a mediocre player his whole career. Anything you get out of CF will be a plus. Hopefully Damon can stay healthy and not being to decline.
Ty: you forgot the final piece to the 2007 puzzle: Gagne.
“What Manny did in 2008 was unethical.”
so what?
can he still mash a baseball?
yeah? great.
Nick in SF,
2007: Boston also acquires Gagne who is touted by Gammons as masterful. However, he almost causes them to lose the division to the Yankees.
TurnTwo: are you suggesting that Manny’s past behavior shouldn’t be or won’t be a consideration? I would beg to differ.
And all those people that are saying manny doesn’t have any offers are just taking wild guesses.. The Yankees and dodgers are just two of the offers he has. What those offers are, I don’t know, but if you think someone with THESE stats on the dodgers isn’t getting offers, you’re dilusional.
————
There are no offers on the table to Manny Ramirez from anyone. None. Zero. Zip.
I don’t care whether you like the guy or whether you know his so-called best friends – you’re making things up because there is no evidence at all that any offer to Manny was made by the Yanks.
It’s been well-documented that the Dodgers made him an offer and quickly withdrew it. There has been no offer to him by anyone since.
Ty: it was just a big misunderstanding. Gagne thought he was going to Boston to give evidence to George Mitchell, he wasn’t prepared to pitch.
“I would beg to differ.”
and while you sit and beg, i’ll watch my #3 and clean up hitter each hit 35+ HRs and drive in 120RBIs.
and be entertained every step of the way.
“Personally I think Manny is EXACTLY what Girardi needs in that clubhouse.”
Manny would be to Girardi what Reggie Jackson was to Billy Martin…
Manny has only had one offer…the Dodgers two year deal that was subsequently withdrawn…per a number of different sources.
Hank will make it happened. Book it.
———-
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention but Hank doesn’t make those decisions.
His brother Hal and Cashman do and Hal is the guy who controls the purse strings.
He’s also said repeatedly along with Cashman that they are going to lower the payroll from last season.
Manny isn’t coming to the Yanks. I’ll bet my next paycheck on it.
TurnTwo, you’re just being silly now. Also, I haven’t advocated against Manny. I don’t think the Yankees will end up signing him, though.
look at the stats.you won’t find a team with the best era & best offense winning the ws.
a team usually has to be in the top 3rd in era & the middle & up in offense.
not saying that it can’t happen or you shouldn’t try to better a team but you have to have 3 great starters,an offense that is well ballanced,mix of young & old.
the best thing might be to give melky a chance.i read an article that melky should try to hit the ball in the air & he could put up great numbers.
if he puts his work in & gets in great shape he could be good.
he already plays good defense & has a good arm,he is also a big kid.
we need a little more youth wich we got,we didn’t trade our farm system away,we are seeing the kids produce now,the pen is good deep,we have 4 great starters.
we will be fine if melky can turn it around.cf production is the key.he started the year on fire in 08 but ran out of gas.
we can rest him in 09 to keep him fresh.
we have been lacking the pitching the last few years & have the best 4 pitchers in baseball.
a lot of teams are solid 1-3 but who is better than
cc
wang
burnett
joba ??
nobody.
“TurnTwo, you’re just being silly now”
Nick,
You wrote the book on being silly. Just saying, not that anybody minds.
I guess we’ll see who is right or wrong, eh? Even if he doesn’t come to the yankees, I’m sure he has a long list of offers.. Maybe none of them are what he wants, but he definately has them. .332 avg with 37hr and a .602 slugging %? Which one of these scenarios is more believable.. That a player of that magnatude has no offers, or that there are plenty of offers but most probably don’t meet what he wanted.. Sorry, mine is more believable.
I don’t object to silliness on any level, but those weren’t compelling arguments.
YANKEE SEAN
the outfield might be better than you think.
the key is melky/gardner.
damon,nady,melky is not bad if melky can turn it around.
his youth is exactly what this team needs & we shouldn’t give up on him but let him know he has to step it up or else.
the fun is over & if he want’s to get paid & live the life he has to produce.
a good wakeup call is what he needed.damon is in a contract year so is nady.do not underestimate a contract year.
2008 AL Champs Lineup:
1B Pena: .247 BA, 31 HR, 102 RBI
2B Iwamura: .274 BA, 6 HR, 48 RBI
ss bartlett: .286 BA, 1 HR, 37 RBI
3B Longoria: .272 BA, 27 HR, 85 RBI
C navarro: .295 BA, 7 HR, 54 RBI
CF Upton: .273 BA, 9 HR, 67 RBI
LF Crawford: .273 BA, 8 HR, 57 RBI
RF Gross: .238 BA, 13 HR, 40 RBI
bench player Aybar: .253 BA, 10 HR, 33 RBI
looking at those stats you cant believe that the rays acheived going to the world series by great offense, they had a stable rotation and it worked in their favor
now you can argue that though their offense was enough to get to the WS it wasnt enough to win it.
your team does not need to score the most runs or hit the most HRs in the AL or MLB, they just need to hit enough to win
i think that we can win with what we have now, but like i said before one more addition would be nice.
those rays were great at moving runners and cashing in runs from 3rd. the yankees need to be able to do the same.
“a lot of teams are solid 1-3 but who is better than
cc
wang
burnett
joba ??
nobody.”
Sounds a lot like…
Clemens
Pettitte
Wells
El Duque
That a player of that magnatude has no offers, or that there are plenty of offers but most probably don’t meet what he wanted.. Sorry, mine is more believable.
———–
Not really. The baggage finally caught up to Barry Bonds last season. No team wanted that circus in their clubhouse even though he could still play.
Don’t be shocked if the Dodgers and/or Angels are the only teams who make a legitimate run at Manny.
But no matter how well you supposedly know his buddy, that doesn’t change the fact that he has no offers from anyone on the table right now.
“If we do get Manny, I wonder which member of the Yankees organization he will get into an altercation with?”
How about somebody like David Bernstein Director, Hospitality ?
Seriously, a guy with Manny’s track record, coupled with the dearth of Yankee players who can hit with RISP in Big Game situations, you take a gamble on a 2-3 year contract with him.
we got the rays beat in stats on every position on the field except maybe fist base & that isn’t by a mile & we got them beat soundly.
we have 4 great starters wich is what we were missing.
we do not need tex or manny.
if we were to upgrade cf,rf,lf,fb then i wouldn’t be against it especially cf.
Yankees won loss vs the Rays
11-7
We dont need any thing but another starter …if we get manny that would be nice if we dont i wont cry the yankees have had a great off season and its not even over
the phillies were 6th in era & 8th in offense in all of baseball in 08
if we are in the top 10 in offense & top 4 or 5 in era i think we have a shot.
bru,
I agree to a limited extent about the offense. I have never been a believer in Melky as a starter, but I wouldn’t mind him being a backup to Baldelli.
It’s also worth noting that the Yanks scored more runs than the Rays did last season.
But the Rays’ pitching and defense was far better and that’s why one team won the toughest division in MLB and the other stayed home last October.
Needing another bat is fine – but it doesn’t have to be Manny. They need to improve their defense as well and Manny doesn’t exactly fit the profile.
Whatever offensive upside he would have is partially negated by his defense. And we can’t be certain that Manny would be happy and motivated as an everyday DH.
We all know Manny can hit – but he’d have a much bigger market for his services this offseason if that told the whole story.
bru,
exactly its not about having the greatest stats, its about performing in certain situations, like getting someone in from 2nd or 3rd base
teix wants too much money and too many years, and manny is a coin toss, do we absloutely need any or both of them? not at all.
“you’re just being silly now.”
i’m just sayin i think people overplay this “manny is a quitter” thing because they dont like the guy cause he was a Red Sox.
he didnt want to be in Boston anymore, so he did what he felt he had to do to have them not pick up the option so he could leave.
that doesnt mean he doesnt want to or cant still hit a baseball, and cant be a productive member of a strong, offensive ballclub who could use a player like him to sure up the $240+ million investment they just wrapped up.
He’s a bad dude, actually “despicable” so sez McCarver, a “thug” so sez another commentator whose name escapes me for good reason, a “quitter” so sez most of you who seem to ignore the circumstances precipitating the events of late June and July. The ex-Yankee triumverate states unequivocally otherwise, but that doesn’t count since he was “playing for a contract”.
“If” the Yankees do go forward and sign Manny, don’t you think they would have gotten a sense from the key team members (Jeter, Posada, Mo, A-Rod, Damon) as to their take on chemistry? I would assume they already have, given the comments of Hank over the past month, and Hal at the CC/AJ press conference the other day. Manny is quirky and enigmatic, but NOT in the same basket as a Sheffield, Lofton, Johnson, Brown and a number of others.
From a negotiations standpoint they are playing it just right; stay cool, casual droppings that they may be players, wait for it all to fall out, and when the only player left is the penurious McCourt who will lower his prior offer, and since there will be no other players, the Yankees may well swoop in. Only time will tell and then, “we will get it straight”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....ref=sports
The proper term is “pull a Damon”…..FYI…Get ready for one HALE of an offense, with Tex at 1st base !
Ty
maybe but melky is young & we do not know what we have with him.he can take off & be great.
if he does not do it in 09 then i think he is done but he is tearing in up in the afl & this is why the yankees are taking notice.
if he can turn it around then it will add a very young player to the lineup wich is what we need.
his age is about when players take off.
i would not give up on him yet.
Well said Arial.
I might just add that he grew up in the Bronx. Is highly motivated to beat the Sox, and wants to be a Yankee.
TSO,
Thanx for adding those three key points….he has always wanted to be a Yankee. If signed, his contribution will surpass expectations.
Why did the Dodgers make an offer to Manny, only to withdraw it shortly thereafter?
At the half:
Ravens 9
Cowboys 7
Romo with 2 INTs.
I might just add that he grew up in the Bronx. Is highly motivated to beat the Sox, and wants to be a Yankee.
———–
How do you know he wants to be a Yankee?
What he wants is the most money or he wouldn’t have hired Boras.
He’s going to sign with the highest bidder and I guarantee that team won’t be the Yanks.
bru,
I have no problem keeping Melky around, but I would like to retain Baldelli’s services as our primary CF. When Baldelli needs rest (which is a weekly certainty)then Melky can step in a show his stuff.
Pel,
thanks for the update, i dont have the NFGL network unfortunatly, GO RAVENS!!
Texasadamonpull
the yankees had the highest offer with damon,they are not even close with tex if they are considering 8/160.
they are hoping he will take a discount wich he will not with boras.
the only way the yankees get him is if they beat or match all offers.the sox offered 8/170-180.
NFL*
“Manny is quirky and enigmatic, but NOT in the same basket as a Sheffield, Lofton, Johnson, Brown and a number of others. ”
True. Those guys never assaulted a senior citizen Traveling secretary who didn’t get him enough tickets.
I’ve noticed how no one on here wants to touch this fact with a ten foot pole. The guy committed an assault that he should have been arrested for, but like BOS, the Manny supporters on this blog want to give him a free pass. I wonder if you’d be so accommodating if that traveling secretary had been someone in your family.
He grew up a Blue Jays fan…
““If” the Yankees do go forward and sign Manny, don’t you think they would have gotten a sense from the key team members (Jeter, Posada, Mo, A-Rod, Damon) as to their take on chemistry?”
i wonder why any great journalists, like PeteAbe himself, wouldnt call up Johnny Damon and simply ask him a couple questions about Manny and his “quitting” last year, and what Damon thinks Manny could offer the Yankees next season, and if Damon would talk to Cash to try and sell Manny right to Cashman.
the yankees have to distribute runs when needed.
we don’t need a hr from arod when we are winning 5-0 we need one when we are losing.
it all depends if we get the hits when needed.
“The guy committed an assault that he should have been arrested for, but like BOS, the Manny supporters on this blog want to give him a free pass.”
not a free pass, but why am i going to give Manny guff over it if his own team didnt even really want to discipline him?
maybe it wasnt nearly as bad as it was made out to be in the press?
maybe Manny personally apologized, and handled it behind the scenes with the man who he ‘assaulted’?
and what does ‘assaulting’ a senior citizen have to do with hitting a baseball?
LLIME,
The Dodgers offer was made to satisfy the fans who were enamored with Manny. The offer was promptly withdrawn since McCourt had absolutely no intention of following through.
Laura,
That was just Manny being Manny… no harm in that. He is a goofy character, he will do things like that from time to time.
That loose attitude is what makes him the most feared RH hitter of our lifetime and a killer in the big spot.
Manny is a special talent, he can get away with some things. That’s fine he has earned that right.
To be honest… as long as he hits in a big spot and dominates the red sox/postseason, he can do whatever he wants.
forget morality, we need to win #27 and manny helps us with that in a huge way
How do you know he wants to be a Yankee?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08.....123658.htm
Manny stated at the time he signed with Boston that he wanted to be a Yankee but they chose to go with the Moose, as pitching was a more immediate need. Manny’s statement was well publicized at the time.
If we do get him, Cashman needs to tell Girardi point blank to leave him alone and let him do what he wants.
If Girardi is too abrasive with him, this thing would blow up in our faces. He will quit from day 1.
Tell Girardi to keep his distance and be nice to him no matter what… then there will be no problems.
That NY Times report about the Yankees interest in Teixeira is fairly significant.
As far as I know that is the first definitive leaked rumor that the yankees would be willing to make a large $150M + offer to Tex.
Prior to that report all we’ve seen is speculation that the yankees could in theory get involved or that they were monitoring the situation.
How much substance is behind that report – who knows.
But this isn’t George King making things up. The Yankees intentionally leaked this – and leaked it to the NY Times for a reason.
Either they see Tex’s negotiations as having hit an impasse and are looking to step in and take a more active role in driving up his price.
Or they are serious about making an offer and sending Tex a very loud signal – we’re interested and are willing to make a very significant offer but we are not going to be the high bid if we are talking about $180M+.
Either way this seems like a significant advancement in this story. If the yankees are leaking they’re willing to go 8yrs/160M then either they are trying to drive the price up or they are sending signals they have reevaluated their budget priorities and are now going to make a serious run at Tex – as long as he’s willing to be flexibile on not taking the very last dollar.
Which ever it is this is a win win strategy. Boston now has to reevaluate what they are willing to do given more serious interest from the Yankees. Before it was the yanks may or may not/ probably won’t enter the fray. Now they are ready to jump in the water and Boston must take that seriously.
At worst it just got more expensive for Boston or the Angels to sign Tex.
At best this is the yankees getting ready to make a serious run at Tex.
The team may be sensing opportunity here. In any weak market entities that have cash on hand and are liquid will look to buy assets they feel are fairly priced/ under valued.
As large as the deal the yankees have dolled out, the prices free agents are signing for is up to 13% less then it was last year – this is even true for CC though to a lesser extent.
If the yankees think this is still time to buy and Tex is flexible then the hot stove season just became a very different landscape.
“thanks for the update, i dont have the NFL network unfortunately, GO RAVENS!!”
Yeah, I hear ya. It’s ridiculous that they couldn’t do what the MLB is doing on New Years Day (which is totally awesome, btw).
Go to http://www.click2locate.com/nflnetwork/default.asp enter your zip code, pick the service provider you have, enter your contact info, then choose to have them send your provider a fax stating that you want the NFL Network. Or, call and complain. It works. I, and many other, called and complained to get the MLB package on our service and, better late then never, we did.
Give it a shot, it couldn’t hurt.
I mentioned this once before but I think it is more true now than ever.
I think it is hilarious how many both Sox and Yankee fans have dramatically changed their tunes about Manny.
Sox fans to whom Manny could do no wrong now put him down. Yankee fans who had nothing good to say about Manny now sing his praises.
It would be fun to pull out all the negative comments from postings on this blog about Manny when he was a Red Sox…..one would easily find hundreds.
chosing the moral high road & not signing mannt would not be a bad thing to send a message.there is nothing wrong with that.
either side can be justified if you wan’t it to.
look at mantle,yogi,mattingly,oneill,dimaggio,rizzuto most of who were playing to just make a living & were humble.
i just think of those guys who paved the way for manny & it makes me sick to my stomach.
i do not care how good manny is.he is a dog & i would never sign him.
you just do not do what he did,there is no excuse & i am glad he is sweating it out now.
he will do & say anything to get paid.
one day he is threatening everybody & the next he is nice as hell to get a contract.
8/$160 won’t be enough when the Sox have a higher offer on the table and he probably has an even larger one from the Nats.
If the Yankees are in this, they need to be all in. To just pop in like that through the backdoor and offer a low bid is just embarrassing. Then when we miss out on him, it will be portrayed that the Sox stole him from us. No point in even wasting time if $160 is our offer… he has that same offer from every team.
To enter the bidding, you must MATCH the Red Sox offer initially.
TurnTwo — assaulting a senior citizen (also a fellow employee of your organization, which gets the rest of us mortals fired if not arrested) has absolutely nothing to do with hitting a baseball — any more than punching out your wife does (hello Brett Myers and Brian Giles), but it does say something about your character. Repeatedly quitting on your teammates says something about your character as well. If you think this is irrelevant, or mock it, well, that speaks to your character as well.
The fact that, in Yankee Stadium he’s only useful as a DH, pushing other talented hitters to the bench, and would be an absolute disaster patrolling LF is a whole different problem.
“Sox fans to whom Manny could do no wrong now put him down. Yankee fans who had nothing good to say about Manny now sing his praises.”
Exactly, ray. I feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone. This “we should sign Manny” uprising has got to be coming from post-1980’s Yankee fans. Those of us who have been fans since before the great 90’s know what it’s like to go awhile without winning. We lived through the 80’s and survived. These so called “fans” got used to the Yankees winning all the time. That ride has come to an end and they are ready to do a deal with the devil if they think he can bring those times back. It’s actually very sad.
I would love to believe the NY Times report… but it just seems like more speculation. They have had ‘internal discussions’, nothing about making an offer.
They need to act quickly in any event so we should know soon.
What moral highground?
Texiera sucks
Less than Giambi more than Pujols
Less than Adam Laroche more than Lance Berkman
Less than Doug MientKV’tch more than Ryan Howard
The list is quite long when you think about it.
F uck him and the his c suhcker agent.
Anybody know who signed Manny Ramirez?
ray (sox fan)
Guilty as charged.
“8/$160 won’t be enough when the Sox have a higher offer on the table and he probably has an even larger one from the Nats.”
Not true at all. Fans hate the word – but this is a process and the yankees could be entering into that process here.
No one knows exactly what the Boston bid was. No one. It’s been rumored to be anywhere from $160M – 185M.
Boston’s initial bid was rumored to be $160M.
Basically what John Henry sent to Tex on thursday night was this – we’d love to have you but we’ve put in our offer and taht’s it. We are not going to be the high bid if the high bid are the numbers you’re talking about. The ball is in your court.
This leak is essentially sending the same exact message to Tex. We will make a substantial offer but we’re not going to make the high bid if that bid is going to be $195M or whatever it is.
Again – big if – but if this leak is serious and not simply the yanks trying to drive the price up – the yankees are sending the same exact message to Tex that Henry did on thursday. Exactly the same.
If they are willing to go in at 8/160 as a leaked initial offer then they will be seriously in. That’s not some joke of an offer like say $6/120.
And remember this is the first suggestion that the yanks are even willing to make some kind of serious offer.
This would be the opening bid and a leaked one at that.
If the yankees are really willing to go in at 8/160 and its’ not just a ruse to drive up prices – they they are in in a serious way.
They are sending Tex the same message Henry did on thursday.
Why even submit a bid when its that low?
The Angels, Nationals, and Sox have all bid atleast $160 anyway with the O’s at $150. Sox are at $180ish and the Nats are probably the high bid Boras is referring to.
Doubt Henry would become intimidated with us bidding $20 million below them, especially when Tex didn’t say he would take a discount and Boras always takes his clients to the highest bidder.
Unless they have some inside info that he would take that kind of discount to come here it seems kind if pointless to put in the lowest bid that Boras has.
Laura
is your last name Palin?
actually i have always admired manny for his skills and said that if he wasnt such an idiot id take him in a heartbeat, but now that we are capable of getting him im not exactly sure i want him.
“If you think this is irrelevant, or mock it, well, that speaks to your character as well.”
you dont know me. dont pretend from a blog comment that you can psychoanalyze me, either.
lets not fall into the mindset that all professional athletes are angels. they get paid to play a game, and are often imperfect individuals, much like all of us here.
my point being, you assemble a roster to win games. if manny can still hit a baseball like we know he can, he can help the 2009 yankees win ballgames.
thats what he’d get paid to do, and if he can still do it, and he can help bring a championship to NY, then he’s got a spot on my roster.
i watch sports for entertainment, not to look to athletes as my role models.
Boston enabled Manny and encouraged “Manny to be Manny” and actually traded on it. As late as mid-June of last year, NESN played a series of clips (about 15 minutes worth) of “Manny being Manny”, with the Remdog, chuckling all the way, and loving it together with Red Sox Nation, as they had for a number of years.
All was fine until Manny, who really did not want Boston to exercise its option for 09, called the issue (presumably upon and with the advise and counsel of Boras) by asking Boston if they were going to exercise. Using caution, the Sox didn’t respond which upset Manny causing him to state that they weren’t dealing with him fairly. As an aside, they had no obligation to do so, but Manny wanted a sense as to what would be happening come October.
Henry then played into Manny and Boras by stating he was “personally insulted’ by those comments. And then it went downhill in a hurry, with Manny not then handling the situation particularly well. We know the rest.
One cannot ignore the precipitating events and the totality of the circumstances in making a judgment as to Manny, as many have chosen to do.
I will wait until George King reports it before I believe it.
If Tex ends up taking less to play for the Yanks, and then plays like he can, he will be loved like Mattingly at the stadium.
“i watch sports for entertainment, not to look to athletes as my role models.”
You are deflecting the argument because you know that there is no excuse for what he did. Nobody is asking Manny to be anybody’s role model, but it’s not too much to ask for him not to commit crimes while he’s playing baseball.
Trickery from the Ravens! 1st Down!
“I’ve noticed how no one on here wants to touch this fact with a ten foot pole. The guy committed an assault that he should have been arrested for, but like BOS, the Manny supporters on this blog want to give him a free pass.”
Yup, as long as he is hitting and the team is winning, he gets a free pass. Giambi was cheered when hitting, jeered when not. The fact that his entire career was built on steroid use doesn’t matter, as long as he is doing well for your team. If Giambi signs with Boston, same fans heckling him will embrace him, as long as he hits.
Manny can do whatever he wants as long as he hits and the team that signs him wins.
Deion Sanders is terrible tonight
“These so called “fans” got used to the Yankees winning all the time. That ride has come to an end and they are ready to do a deal with the devil if they think he can bring those times back. It’s actually very sad.”
so its sad for a fan to want their team to sign a player who can help the team win games?
this constant “i’m a pre-1990’s before their success” yankees fan nonsense is equally as sad to me, too.
stop trying to make yourself more important or more relevant or a better fan than other fans who have comments to share.
we’re all here because we like the yankees, and we want them to win. some people have different ideas on how they can best and most consistently accomplish this.
that doesnt make anyone right or wrong, or good fan or bad fan… and its not sad that someone grew up as fan during the Yankees dynasty and wants to continue to see the team win championships… those fans are lucky to know such success.
Some of you people are embarrassing yourselves.
IF and when Manny Ramirez does sign with the Yankees and goes say…380 12 and 48 for April and May I’m quite sure you’d all find ways to recover your sworn off fandom as the boys march toward a season unrivaled for nearly 10 yrs.
Put Manny in this line up and you 100 games.
Put Manny in this line up, sign Pettitte and let Joba hand to Mo…You win 109 games.
Mariano and Derek are not getting any younger folks.
WIN NOW IDIOTS REBUILD WHEN ALEX IS GREY AROUND THE EARS AND MADONNA IS DEAD OF OLD AGE
NOW PEOPLE
TODAY
“but it’s not too much to ask for him not to commit crimes while he’s playing baseball.”
you a fan of Joba?
How do we know the traveling secretary didn’t provoke Manny?
Maybe he made fun of him or his wife or kids, causing Manny to lose it. Maybe he threatened Manny or shouted profanities at him.
Always 2 sides to every story. I wouldn’t place all the guilt on Manny just yet
Manny being Manny-Yes I want the Yankees to win, but no thanks Manny. Go play with another team. Don’t want Hank’s horses to live in fear.
Deion is very annoying on the broadcast tonight on NFLN
“that doesnt make anyone right or wrong, or good fan or bad fan… and its not sad that someone grew up as fan during the Yankees dynasty and wants to continue to see the team win championships”
No, that’s not what’s sad. What’s sad is that they are willing to cheapen their team by coveting the likes of Manny Ramirez.
I don’t know about you, but I place the Yankees on a very high pedestal. Jeter said it during his farewell speech at the stadium. It’s an honor to put on the uniform. Such an honor shouldn’t be wasted on Manny Ramirez.
Hate is born out of fear. Yankee fans who hated Manny did so because they feared him when he played against the Yanks. Now that he is available and rumored to to have pique the interest of the Yankees, some fans are willing to “forgive and forget” Manny’s past transgressions.
I don’t want him to be a Yankee.
Ravens ran a fake FG run on 4th down to get the 1st.
Ravens scored and now it’s Ravens 16, Cowboys 7.
A little over 2 Minutes left in the 3rd.
I apologize for how off-topic this is, but I would hope most of us here would like to revel in the Cowboys potentially being eliminated from the playoffs.
Ravens up 16-7
“you a fan of Joba?”
lmaooo a truely great example. personally i am a HUGE joba fan, i was very disappointed in him, but now im over it and continue to love him because hes AWESOME.
sorry laura,
but thats just the way the cookie crumbles
Joba as a set-up guy remains a stupid idea.
laura,
havent you seen the poll? most people here would rather not have manny here under any circumstances, your not the only person who feels that way.
“It’s an honor to put on the uniform. Such an honor shouldn’t be wasted on Manny Ramirez.”
so then how about indicted DWI offenders like Joba? or known cheaters and drug users like Andy Pettitte?
why single out Manny with this high and mightiness?
its an honor to put on the uniform not because the yankees have always been the most moral, ethical, and decent human beings on the planet.
its an honor to play on the field for the greatest baseball organization in the world, on the biggest stage in the world, in the best city in the world, with the best fans in teh world… and because the Yankees commitment to winning and proven level of success is unprecendented in professional sports.
Bottom of the 9th – Yankees are in a tight one with those hated Red Sox. Runners in scoring position. Reliever Paps is on the ropes!
The Yanks have Brett Gardner coming to the plate. Wait! Joe Girardi calls him back. He’s sending up Manny Ramirez!
Manny was promised the day off, but here he comes off the bench.
First pitch – Manny takes it for strike one.
Second pitch – Manny watches it into the glove – strike two.
Third pitch – Manny keeps the bat on his shoulder – strike three!!!!
Ouch… a tough Yankee loss – cue the sad NY NY song. No John Sterling celebration tonight, but Yankee fans just smile and grin saying “that’s Manny being Manny!” “We love him!”
Laura,
Did you want Damon? How do you feel now. Be honest.
Manny makes us better, a lot better.
That is the only thing that matters. He is not Pacman Jones.
Winning is the ONLY THING THAT IS IMPORTANT!!! We are the Yankees
You take the risk of him causing mutiny for the reward of #27, #28, and #29 titles. Winning is the only goal, everything else is secondary.
Manny did not quit during that AB against Mariano.
Mariano notoriously gets outside strike calls and all of those pitches were borderline. If you look into it, I imagine there are dozens of players who Mariano K’d on 3 strikes looking.
Mariano was filthy in those 2 innings, Manny didn’t quit. He looked for a pitch to hit, he didn’t get one. Mariano is god.
Grow up!!
You want to continue to waste the final years of the greatest closer in the history of the sport?
Um…How many years does Mo have left exactly?
1?
2?
Can we all agree that there is only one Mariano Rivera please?
It’s INSULTING that this organization has wasted a literal once in a life time talent such as Mo.
THIS IS MONEY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
THIS IS ALSO THE YANKEES WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
WHY WOULD THE FO DECIDE TO CURE ONE NEED AND ALLOW ANOTHER TO REMAIN WITH SUCH SEEMINGLY CARELESS ARROGANCE?
ANYBODY ELSE LIKE THAT “TIP YOUR CAP SPEECH” WE GOT ALL YEAR AFTER SCORING 2 RUNS OR LESS AGAINST THE LIKES OF JEREMY GUTHRIE AND LUKE HOCHEVAR?? OR WHATEVER THAT DAMN ROYALS PITCHERS NAME WAS..
NAH YOU’RE RIGHT LET’S TIP OUR CAPS FOR A FEW MORE YEARS WHILE MARIANO AND THE GUY WHO “SO HAS AN EDGE” CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE.
“Unless they have some inside info that he would take that kind of discount to come here it seems kind if pointless to put in the lowest bid that Boras has.”
Unless the Yankees themselves are not confident that they even know what the Boston bid is.
It’s not like they are going to believe Boras at this point in the negotiations.
If they aren’t confident that they know what the true market for Tex is then its only prudent to publicly leak your interest at the lowest common value you believe Tex is likely to have been offered.
Most of the word out of LA is that the Angels offered 8/160 as their initial offer.
The yankees would be entering the bidding at exactly that same level.
The exact amount of money they are PUBLICLY leaking is not as important as their rue intentions – which we obviously can’t know.
So it’s very possible they are just trying to up the ante and plant the seed in the mind of the other teams that they are now in the process of putting an offer in.
Remember – before this report most of what we’ve head is that the yanks are simply at the periphery, monitoring the situation and won’t even put any kind of bid in at all.
No team that wants Tex is going to take the yankees making a first offer as something to just brush off.
And if it’s not simply a ploy to push up Tex’s price – then this is a big deal.
The amount of money leaked is very, very secondary to the fact that the yanks would be serious at all.
There’s been no indication to this point that the team would be willing to add another large contract to the books – either short term or, in particular, long term.
If they are truly serious about some kind of 160M bid then they are in. If they are in at $160M then they will match any offer boston has made within reason. If the yanks are in at 160 and boston has only bid 170-175 then the yanks will match that.
This kind of leak is more to gauge Tex’s reaction and the signals he sends back.
“Manny makes us better, a lot better.”
Actually, a league average CF would make us better, a lot better.
CB is correct. Once the Yanks are “in it” everything changes.
“Did you want Damon? How do you feel now. Be honest.”
You ask me to be honest ask if I have a history of lying. That’s not the case.
But to answer your question, absolutely not!! I did not want Damon; not only because he was a former Red Sox, but because he had a lousy throwing arm (and still does). Has he won me over? He most certainly has. But Damon is not Manny. There’s nothing Manny can do to win me over. My objection to him is too strong and based on things and events that he cannot change.
agreed, CB. i kind of like the fact that Cashman is just kind of hanging around, keeping himself in the loop. he’s showing a strong sense of confidence here… kind of like ‘just make sure you check back with us one last time before you decide to make the mistake of playing somewhere else’ kind of thing.
im still skeptical they’ll pull the trigger on Tex, but if they are in the ballpark, ive got to think they’re players here.
Just get a big bat. Finish the job. We have come this far, time to put the nail in the coffin.
assault is a violent crime
Pre-90’s vs Post-90’s Yankee fan? What difference does it make? Is there a “right of passage” if you’re pre-90’s? What about a “Pre-50’s” fan as I am?
I well know the ups and downs, the post Mantle times as well as the joy of the Mantle years, and the 49 -53, 5 out of 5 years.
Speaking of class and character and being a “true Yankee”…Billy Martin, the player (not on the field but his off the field escapades)???. He debauched Mickey and accellerated his physical downfall by aggressively exposing him to the New York night life..in fact, he was eventually traded due to his negative influence on the Mick.
But Billy was still a great Yankee as both a player and a manager. A “virtuous” person? You be the judge though it’s actually irrelevant. Ask Reggie!
Let’s not get carried away with the notion of virtue as to what’s on the field, and who wears the hallowed uniform.
“My objection to him is too strong and based on things and events that he cannot change.”
but you still havent mentioned whether or not you are a joba fan.
“Let’s not get carried away with the notion of virtue as to what’s on the field, and who wears the hallowed uniform.”
amen.
NO!!!!
I WANT MY CAKE AND I WANT TO WATCH IT GROW STALE OLD AND MOLDY!!!!
“but you still havent mentioned whether or not you are a joba fan.”
Did someone ask me if I was a Joba fan? I must have missed that post.
But to answer the question, yes, I am a Joba fan. Why this is relevant, I’m not sure. Joba is already a Yankee. I’m not on this blog all day clamoring for the Yankees to sign Joba. The people who are pushing for a Manny signing do so already knowing of his indiscretions. Joba’s mistake was out of our hands.
Laura,
I did not mean to imply that you are liar. I will say you certainly stand by your convictions. That is good.
I disagree with your “moral” arguments on many levels. You were wrong about Damon. If Manny were to become a Yankee, I think you would be wrong again. How about this. Yankees sign Tex and this conversation is over.
Let’s nail Joba to the stake for his transgression!!!! How dare he put on the hallowed Pinstripes bearing the sacred NY!!!
One strike and “yer out” of Pinstripes or enjoined from ever wearing one.
Phil,
To me that’s the true issue here. It doesn’t matter what the money leaked offer is.
That same report says puts the Boston offer at 8yrs/170.
Does anyone find it plausible to believe that the yankees would put in an initial offer of 8/160 but seriously wouldn’t increase that offer to 8/170? There’s just no way that even remotely feasible.
This is a team that just gave CC a bid of 6/140 and the upped it to 7/160 in order to close a deal.
$10M is 6% of 160M. Does anyone think that the yanks would lose a player they wanted because they wouldn’t up their initial bid by 6% to match the Sox? No way.
Again – this could just be fiction to drive up Tex’s price. Heck even if its for that – I’m all for it.
But if it’s not everything changes. If the yankees are truly going to go in at $160 then they are in and will compete. They are just sending a message that they will not go up to some ridiculous level like the rumored $195M that boras was supposedly requesting.
That’s exactly what Henry said to tex and boras on thursday. The yanks could be sending that same message – just in a very different way because the contexts are different.
The big question is whether or not they are in.
It’s possible that they had been assuming Tex would cost more than $170M-180M.
They might see an asset that is now coming back into their price range.
The timing is also critical here – by all reports Boston and the Angels have declared to Tex that they are done negotiating – they’ve put their “final” offers in and now the ball is squarely in his court.
This is exactly the right moment for the yankees to enter the “process.” They get involved earlier and they know boras is going to continue to play the yanks off the sox.
But now the bidding is clearly entering it’s final stages – and the market for Tex is mature.
Now would be the right time to enter.
Again – not saying this is what’s happenning. This could just be the yanks posturing.
But the exact dollar figure leaked is far, far less important than whether or not they are declaring they are throwing their hat in the ring.
Babe Ruth jumped in the stands and assaulted a fan once.
“I disagree with your “moral” arguments on many levels. You were wrong about Damon.”
I wasn’t wrong about Damon; his arm sucks!
“If Manny were to become a Yankee, I think you would be wrong again. How about this. *Yankees sign Tex* and this conversation is over.”
Ah, now you’re talking!!!
How dare you all allow your principles be challenged by the allure of the most talented hitter in the game AND alleged pedophile!!
He’s not a pedophile?
“Nobody is asking Manny to be anybody’s role model, but it’s not too much to ask for him not to commit crimes while he’s playing baseball.”
*******
But to answer the question, yes, I am a Joba fan. Why this is relevant, I’m not sure.
thats why, Laura.
so why is it that you deny Manny the honor to wear the jersey, yet Joba is fine because he was already a yankee when he commited his crime?
CB,
I really hope the Yanks are truly going strong for Teix. For an 8 year deal, he’ll be under age 35 for 6 of those 8 years and he’s a solid player who provides an immediate upgrade to the lineup without being disruptive. He’s a much better fit than Manny imo.
A question for you though. Is there a way to project added value for Teixeira being a switch hitter. The effect it has on the entire line-up positioning and how managers handle relievers? Even with the best hitters there are percentages to play and switch hitters imo neutralize that. I think the Yankees lineup is missing that punch they had with brnie and Posada back in the dynasty years.
Also, I klnow you’ve mentioned Abreu’s defense being horrible and agree he has seemed bad. But in watching games he still seemed like an upgrade over Sheffield in the field. That’s my feel. Do the numbers back it up or am I missing something?
““If Manny were to become a Yankee, I think you would be wrong again. How about this. Yankees sign Tex and this conversation is over.”
Ah, now you’re talking!!!”
and we all find some common ground
Tex at 8 years > Manny.
CB,
Earlier in the week, one of the unnamed Yankee sources mentioned in one of the papers, that not all of the offers that were being floated should be believed.
I think what we have is this: the Yanks want another bat. Cash and Girardi love Tex, Hank and Hal see value in Manny. So I think they are now gonna make an effort to get one or the other. Leaking 8/160 lets them close with 1 more face to face meeting if Tex is interested. Sure the number might go up, but it won’t got to 195 and he will have Don Mattingly’s old job.
I’d expect a similar effort for Manny will be forthcoming if Tex doesn’t want to be a Yankee. But they are playing the market right, and if Cash jumps on a plane say tomorrow or Monday, Tex will probably be a Yankee.
“and we all find some common ground”
and a good time for me to get to bed with work tomorrow morning.
‘night all.
“so why is it that you deny Manny the honor to wear the jersey, yet Joba is fine because he was already a yankee when he commited his crime?”
Huh? I didn’t say what Joba did was fine. What I said (or tried to say) was that we had no control over Joba’s actions. I have no power over who the Yankees sign or keep. Do you want me to see if we can get Cash to trade Joba? I have to tell you that the chances of that happening are close to nil.
“you gotta have faith (Aj for 5 years, NOOOOO)(Andy come back!) December 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
2008 AL Champs Lineup:
1B Pena: .247 BA, 31 HR, 102 RBI
2B Iwamura: .274 BA, 6 HR, 48 RBI
ss bartlett: .286 BA, 1 HR, 37 RBI
3B Longoria: .272 BA, 27 HR, 85 RBI
C navarro: .295 BA, 7 HR, 54 RBI
CF Upton: .273 BA, 9 HR, 67 RBI
LF Crawford: .273 BA, 8 HR, 57 RBI
RF Gross: .238 BA, 13 HR, 40 RBI
bench player Aybar: .253 BA, 10 HR, 33 RBI
looking at those stats you cant believe that the rays acheived going to the world series by great offense, they had a stable rotation and it worked in their favor
now you can argue that though their offense was enough to get to the WS it wasnt enough to win it.
your team does not need to score the most runs or hit the most HRs in the AL or MLB, they just need to hit enough to win
i think that we can win with what we have now, but like i said before one more addition would be nice.
”
The Rays defense was way better then the Yankees. Our team cant pull off the defense necessary to win as many tight games as the Rays did. They are younger and faster. Our team is designed to be an offensive powerhouse. If its not capable of putting more then 1-2 runs up per game they are going to lose alot of games no matter how many Aces we have.
“A question for you though. Is there a way to project added value for Teixeira being a switch hitter. ”
YankeeJosh,
That’s a tough thing to project and I think you’d have to consider the alternatives.
For instance – it makes no difference to Manny Ramirez whether or not the pitcher is left handed or right handed.
It makes a considerable difference to Adam Dunn.
So compared to the alternative of signing Dunn, Tex being a switch hitter is helpful. Compared to manny not really.
And remember – switch hitters almost always have a stronger side. Now tex is very good from both. But he’s definitely better as a left handed hitter – Career OPS as a lefty is .935 vs. .912 as a righty. Not big – but it’s a difference.
But that’s not that, that much difference than what Hideki matsui’s platoon split is either.
So it depends on the player he’s replacing and the team/ situaion he’s facing.
And overall – any advantage he gains should manifest themselves into his total production numbers.
I don’t have any good numbers on Sheffield defensively. But Abreu was horrible this year and has been below average defensively for the past 3-4 years.
This year he was nearly as bad a defender as Manny is. That’s how bad he was.
“The Rays defense was way better then the Yankees. Our team cant pull off the defense necessary to win as many tight games as the Rays did. They are younger and faster. Our team is designed to be an offensive powerhouse. If its not capable of putting more then 1-2 runs up per game they are going to lose alot of games no matter how many Aces we have.”
And yet our record against them was 11-7, go figure.
Manny presents logisitical problems. Signing him requires either having a below league average OF defense or DHing him and trading Matsui. Trading Matsui will simply add about $10mill to Manny’s 2009 salary. From some of the calculations I’ve seen on this blog and others, Manny is about two wins better than Matsui. Two wins plus $10mill in addition to continued below league average offense from CF. Doen’t make sense to me. Seems more about chest thumping by fans and less about building a solid defensive team with depth and flexibility off the bench.
Phil,
I think that’s a reasonable assessment. I’m sure the whole organization (outside of hank and randy levine perhaps) would prefer Tex.
So now they may be interested in finding out what it would really take to sign him and to gauge his true level of interest.
No idea right now. That report would be a good way of trying to up their involvement to goad the sox/angels into upping their bid.
But if its not that – then it’s a signal. We are willing to offer you a lot of money but within reason – it’s not going to be $195M but it will be in the ball park of what the sox and angels are offering.
Now it’s your choice.
I have no idea what Tex’s preferences are or if it really is the last dollar that matters but…
Hitting in front of Alex and behind Jeter would have to be very compelling to Tex.
Hitting in front of Alex will significantly improve his chances to make the hall of fame. He’ll get better pitches to hit and will score a ton of runs.
The additions to the pitching staff make it a team that is going to be favored to win should they add his bat.
He’ll make a lot of money in endorsements – much more than he could make in boston or even anaheim.
New York is closer to his family in Maryland. It’s only a two hour train ride.
We’ll see. This could be a ruse or it could get very interesting.
CB, Thanks.
My thinking with Teix is that he lengthens the lineup against good starters. If you are facing a tough lefty like Santana you can stack two righties in A-Rod and Teix and not worry about match-ups. You can likewise break up lefties in a line-up that way. My belief is that good switch hitters are vastly under-rated.
Yes, Manny is fine as a righty vs either lefties or righties but does the rest of the line-up suffer as a result of Manny not being a switch hitter? If the line-up is Jeter, Manny, A-Rod, an opposing manager can stick with his best righty set up guy, even with Manny being a risk to him. If the line up is Jeter, Teix, A-Rod, then the manager needs to at least think about Teix hitting as a lefty and maybe he makes some pitching moves that benefit the other hitters in the line-up. And that’s the thing I’m trying to figure how to quantify.
CB,
Out of curiosity, which player do you think would net the Yankees the most wins based on warp? Vernon Wells replacing Melky (Swisher stays at 1B) or Tex replacing Swisher (Nady is traded or Damon shifts to CF)?
Well, if no Manny or Tex, that seriously weakens the lineup.
My biggest concern with no Manny is as constructed Nady is our starting right fielder. It didn’t seem to me, based on the 70 or so games he played for the Yankees last year, that he can hack it. He seems very “average.”
Has he ever had a clear (i.e. not platoon) starting role on a contending team? He did ok with the Mets, but what was his role?
Similiar, or maybe greater concerns about Swisher at 1b. Honestly, I might feel more comfortable with the Big G for another year or 2. At least he has power and needs to be pitched to carefully. Not sure you can really say that about Nady or Swisher.
Further to my point, Nady hit .268 with us last year, is a career .280 hitter, with ok power, and has only one had more than 430 at bats in a season.
It would be interesting to see Manny without the dreadlocks, dew rag and baggy uniform as well as his reception in Boston wearing pinstripes…. but not interesting enough to sign him!!!
Peter,
The number of people on this board who want to root for Manny Ramirez is a symbol of what is wrong with professional sports.
The building of stadia with taxpayer money, absurd ticket prices, PSL’s and assorted bad behavior by people who do not understand their great good fortune are just the tip of the iceberg.
Bring in Manny. People are scared of Manny…nobody is scared of Tex.
Kevin
So let’s see who owes me an apology… Let’s see who was right about Manny? Viper? Laura? Who else… Yanks just signed Manny to a 3 year deal. I accept
Oh I know it’s rumored just to be an offer, but the offer will be on yanks terms and he will accept