Lining up to turn down Tex
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2008 
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The Angels have joined the Red Sox in publicly saying they’re out of the Mark Teixeira business. Calling the bluff of Scott Boras is a popular pastime these days.
You hear a lot from people in the game that Teixeira is a lot like Alex Rodriguez. Though talented and hard working, he is ultimately concerned more about his contract than winning. Is this another example of that? We should know soon.
There is no indication whatsoever that the Yankees have gotten involved.
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Interesting blog post by our pal Zell on what a good dude Phil Hughes is.
Meanwhile, I heard from Ian Kennedy, who has been home from Puerto Rico for about 10 days. “I had a blast there. Things are feeling good again,” he said.
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Chris Britton has signed with the Padres. Good luck to him and here’s hoping he gets a shot to show what he can do. Bet he does well for them given the good track record Kevin Towers and his people have of finding relievers.
nats and o’s battling it out? not exactly what scottie had in mind! could it be that wonderboy has finally overplayed his hand?
G-Men got thier mojo back!
It must suck being Boras in the middle of the 2nd Great Depression.
You can’t blackmail people without money.
No way Yanks let Tex sign anywhere else… and how ’bout them New York Football Jints!
CC must be kicking himself. His camp likely thought the Angels would have the budget space to sign him after Tex.
And what’s with CC, I thought he was a low-key guy, with small town values, but demands a Suite on the road. Double talker.
should read: “CC must be kicking himself. His camp likely thought the Angels wouldN’T have the budget space to sign him after Tex.
Thanks for sharing that blog about Phil. He used to stop by his former message board quite frequently as well and came across as a pretty good guy. I’m happy the Yankees have held on to him.
Now if only he’d stop to sign my official #34 jersey in Boston
Nice boy that Phil Hughes.
What about the 3yr 75mill to Manny deal Pete?
The only thing Boras has in mind is the money. He could care less where that ends up being. That said, if Tex has so much in common with A-Rod, it would be kind of nice to see him on the same team if the Yanks wouldn’t mind swooping in.
Have you heard any rumblings or can confirm any truth to the Impacto Deportivo report of the yanks on the verge of signing manny to a 3year/$75mill contract? They say an announcement could come Monday or Tuesday. If this is true, Boras will be in bad shape as far as leverage goes since the Yanks would obviously be 100% out of the tex bidding.
According to a report in the Dominican newspaper Impacto Deportivo, the Yankees are on the verge of signing Manny Ramirez to a three-year, $75MM deal. The report says negotiations are advanced and an announcement would take place Monday or Tuesday.
This idea that a Dominican paper or a ‘source close to Manny’ saying that the Yanks will sign him to a 3 year deal is pretty ridiculous. Let’s hear from a legitimate source (ie. NOT the NY Post) before we start thinking that any deal is imminent.
some good posts in the previous thread RE: the manny rumor.
i suggest people read those before posting here.
Reposting from last thread:
“Why would Boras allow Manny to sign before Teixeria signs? ”
He won’t. Boras was making unsolicited phone calls to Cashman two days ago to try to get him to bid on Tex.
And now two days after Boras is trying to get the Yanks to bid on Tex Boras has manny close to signed with the yanks?
That makes no sense.
If manny signs now boras loses incredible leverage over the sox with Tex.
His best and possible only chance to get Tex a truly exorbitant deal is to scare the sox into believing that the yankees are in on tex.
The yanks sign manny now – they are out of tex and tex’s market absolutely collapses now that the angels are out.
There’s no way boras would want manny signed to the yankees right now. That would cut Tex’s knees right from under him.
And in the pantheon of boras clients there’s no comparison between manny and Tex. Tex has been with boras as one of this prize clients since he was 18.
Tex turned down 1.5M from the sox when he was 18 and went to college because boras told him to.
And now boras is going to ruin tex’s leverage? They’ve probably been discussing Tex on the market for the last 6 years and now in order to help manny he’s going to wipe out tex’s market?
That seems like a stretch.
I don’t believe the Angels or Redsox are out. They are just calling Boras BS bluff. Also, I think Tex really does want to play for the Yanks. Carlos Beltran Part 2 about to happen?
That paper is hit or miss.
I can’t help but think they are just quoting the Daily News report from yesterday that we might offer him a 3 yr deal.
Can anyone who knows Spanish translate the article word for word? Are they just deferring to the Daily News report or is it concrete info?
Manny 3/75 rumor
No freaking way. He has no other bids – why would Yanks pay him 25 mil a year? 3/60 I could believe or even 2/50 but 3/75? Utter BS.
Olney was on ESPNNEWS this afternoon and he said the Yanks ARE interested in Manny, but the Yanks want to wait out Boras’ ridiculous demands, since it’s a buyers market for corner outfielders.
So I think Manny could end up with the Yanks, but not now, and not for that amount of money.
I agree with you Vito on your first point. not sure about the 2nd one. no way the Sox are out and the Angels (esp Scioscia) really like Tex. Once Boras is forced to come back to the 8/160 neighborhood, the Angels will put their offer back on the table.
God, this is such a tease. We all know this isin’t true. Ir won’t happen this quickly and in this stress-free manner. There has been no bidding, no negotiation. Why would he just award Manny to us with a 3 yr deal when he was talking about 4-5 yr deals all this time? And shouldn’t he wait until LAD/LAA get desperate?
I absolutely hate rumors like this, get you excited for no reason.
A look at Impacto Deportivo’s recent history:
* 11/24/08: Reported the Braves as the mystery team in on Rafael Furcal, offering four years and $52MM. The offer was inaccurate, but they did nail the mystery team.
* 11/12/08: Correctly scooped the Damaso Marte signing.
* 2/21/08: Incorrectly indicated the White Sox reached an agreement with Bartolo Colon. Also incorrect on a similar rumor involving the Royals.
* 1/21/08: Correctly scooped the Octavio Dotel signing.
* 11/18/07: Correctly scooped the Luis Castillo signing.
8 Gintz, check out mlbtraderumors.com or read the last thread
P.S. Gas, real estate, and the stock market are deflating, and so is Manny.
Great story on Phil Franchise!
from rotoworld.com on the new Manny rumor:
“Doubtful, extremely doubtful. Still, everyone else will picking up on the Dominican-based report soon enough. Manny to the Yankees is a definite possibility, but it’s highly unlikely that the two sides are this far along. On the off chance that it is, a more legitimate source will pick up on it soon.”
“If manny signs now boras loses incredible leverage over the sox with Tex.”
while i dont believe any of this, i take exception to this statement. if the yankees did sign manny now, it would greatly increase the pressure on boston to sign tex. and since he’s already got huge offers from the nats and o’s, he could really put the screws to the sox who would have to answer the yankees.
but cash will never sign manny.
It doesnt make sense to me either for a Manny deal to be happening now before Boras finishes Tex.
Unless Manny is throwing a tantrum and forcing this to happen now. Maybe he doesnt like being seen as a consolation prize for the Tex losers so he isnt playing ball with Boras. Just forcing him to deal him now to the Yanks.
CB and everyone else
On your “no way Boras lets Manny sign first” – not only that, but NO WAY the Yankees sign Manny before Teix signs!! Angels are out, if the Yankees sign Manny then they are DEFINITELY out and that means the Red Sox can get Teix cheaper. The Red Sox get involved with EVERY free agent the Yankees want (or trade) even if they have zero interest, just to drive the price up for the Yankees. We CANNOT sign Manny and let Teix fall into the laps of the Red Sox without at least trying to make them spend as much as humanly possible on him.
If Yanks need a bat they can pick one up cheap in late January. Lot of guys will be begging for work by then, including Ramirez.
Awesome story about Hughes!
Great job Phil!
The yankees have apparently just got manny http://www.impactodeportivo.co.....ormat=html
“if the yankees did sign manny now, it would greatly increase the pressure on boston to sign tex.”
No not at all.
Here’s the rub – the Sox still have the highest bid on the table.
The sox bid by every report is higher than the Angels, Nats or Orioles.
They’re the top dog right now.
But the problem for Tex and Boras is that the bid isn’t what they want.
That’s why boras was calling Cash two days ago trying to get him involved.
Tex needs the yankees to get involved – without that Boston has no particularly competition and will just wait Tex out.
The yankees signing manny now would be awful news for the Sox unless the nats really do have a $200M bid on the table.
But all reports indicate that the Nats bid 8/160 and the orioles bid 7/150.
At those prices those teams aren’t even remotely competition for the sox. Not even close. The nats would have to raise that price 30M before they became true competition for the sox.
The Sox have the high bid and that gives them leverage. That’s why they walked away from the table and refused to negotiate against themselves.
Tex needs the yankees to get into the bidding.
With the Angels out the yankees will really need to evaluate what to do with Tex.
They are very unlikely to suddenly sign a deal with manny.
It makes no sense from either the yankees or boras’ perspective.
Impacto Deportivo was right about who shot JR, right about the Berlin Wall falling, but wrong about WMD’s in Iraq. 2 out of 3 is not bad, though.
its amazing how many times a story ‘breaks’ on here. doesnt anybody read the other posts to see if its being discussed?
Actually, if the Yankees sign Manny… it will make Boston even more desperate for Tex. The Angels might also reconsider their stance on Teixeria knowing that there is no Manny there as a backup plan, ditto the Nationals.
Boston is not involved with Manny anyway, so they are a non entity in this.
Phil was really cool up until last spring training.
Last spring training he tells people that he’ll sign whatever they send to him. So kids send him baseballs, Jerseys, items signed by other players.. Guess what happens?
He ends up keeping the stuff. Nobody has gotten anything back and Phil won’t talk about it.
Pete, I could of sworn that Tex’s sister lives in Hoboken. Could you look into this?
I know growing up he idolized Mattingly as well-Do you think there is a growing possibility that he really just does want to play for the Yanks?
Tex knows that the Yanks are going to sign a bat-Perhaps he wants to go there, but I am sure Boras would much rather have him go to Boston, so there would be a bidding war between Yanks/LAA/Dodgers.
I would like see Yanks package a reliever and Nady to Detroit for Ordonez
Nick in SF-
you can’t blame Impacto Deportivo for the WMD report, Cheney forced them to fabricate that one.
We will get Manny eventually (if we don’t get Tex). So even if this report is inaccurate, don’t fret.
Only a matter of time. Whether its Christmas, Martin Luther King Day, or Valentines Day, we will get Manny.
There’s a great lieklyhood of Aliens landing in Central Park, maybe even Prospect Park, than Manny signing before the Holidays (I refuse to say X-mas).
“He ends up keeping the stuff. Nobody has gotten anything back and Phil won’t talk about it.”
so you’re calling him a thief? do you have anything to back that up with?
HAHAHAHAHA
You sent Phil Hughes your baseball and he broke your heart.
Poor guy.
Maybe Santa Clause will put in your stocking if the Tooth fairy forgets to do that creepy pillow thing.
Wow I wonder what Phil did with all that merchandise?
You think he sold it for smack and chesterfields?
Go read the comments on his blog, I saw a couple people ask.. ask anyone who sent him something last season.
that dude probably sent him something to sign and forgot to include a return address!
11:37pm: Kat O’Brien and Ken Davidoff have a new column up. They say that despite John Henry’s Thursday statement, the Red Sox did not pull their $170-180MM offer. The Yankees have not made an offer; they’re debating it internally.
source: MLBRumors.com
I just read the rumor that the Yanks are set to sign Manny for $75 over three years. Please, Please, Please tell me this is not true!!!!!
Then say Christmas Frosty … we’re very open people
Also, is anyone talking about collusion with regards to Tex? Seems weird that everyone is playing it so cool with him.
No, I think he’s good friends with Ruben Rivera.
Yeah Pete!!
Could yo do us all a solid and harass Mark Texiera’s immediate family so we might actually get some sleep tonight?
Seriously I’m sure you’ve got a nice winter coat and some mittens.
It’s only a couple miles Pete…PLEASE
“You think he sold it for smack and chesterfields”
LMAO
Mrs Texiera is on a roll
When did the Red sox said publicly that they were out of the race? that mail by Henry NEVER said that.
COLLUSION!!! you mean like teams HAVE TO offer the guy more than he’s worth or they must be breaking the law?
3 offers over 8/$160? damn, obviously collusion there!
collusion? The guys has 4 or 5 offers of 150 to 180 million. Collusion would be no offers – see Barry Bonds 2007 hot stove…or better yet Jack Morris/Tim Raines around 1986
It had to be a take it or leave it deal, see Andy that’s how a take it or leave it deal goes, jesus who’s that idiot that jinx’d this earlier me about gun to my head who would I take. I hate you.
Henry never said he “pulled the offer”. He just said they are done negotiating. The offer is and will always be there if they want to accept it, but they won’t go higher or get involved in the dog and pony show.
So Newsday isin’t telling us anything new.
The Yankees know that the Angels won’t be getting Mark Teixeria. They also know that the Boston Red Sox most likely will get Mark Teixeria and of course Scott Boras does as well. The Yankees might have told Boras straight up “We’re not offering a contract to Teixeria, let Boston have him. But we’ll give Manny 75 mil. for 3 years.” Boston signs Teixeria but the Yankees do a pre-emptive strike and sign Manny before the Angels have a shot to even make him a contract offer…
GOD I love bull stories like these!
The Yankees know that the Angels won’t be getting Mark Teixeria. They also know that the Boston Red Sox most likely will get Mark Teixeria and of course Scott Boras does as well. The Yankees might have told Boras straight up “We’re not offering a contract to Teixeria, let Boston have him. But we’ll give Manny 75 mil. for 3 years.” Boston signs Teixeria but the Yankees do a pre-emptive strike and sign Manny before the Angels have a shot to even make him a contract offer…
GOD I love bull stories like these!
Man what a game that was, great win for the G-Men
no offers = Bonds
I Never got a response either..
I sent a Moose Bar to Geritt Cole to sign and I’m still waiting too.
No, Sox aren’t out – they are just waiting for the Boras BS to run out of steam which it is rapidly. My gut feeling FWIW – Tex wants to play for Yanks but they wont bid. Boston has best bid but he really doesn’t want to go there. Orioles and Nats are not real options. Angels want him bad but he wants the east coast. The question is – will the Yanks match the Sox or get close enough? If so he goes Yanks. Yanks trying to figure out if the deal makes sense long term, especially with a lot of viable short terms deals for a bat out there that will be bargains by February 1 – including Manny.
Yeah, but this Newsday story confirms that fact, as well as a lot of the estimates that CB has been using to fuel his theories.
It’s not like Manny is going to get any better than 3/$75 anyway.
I could definitely see Boras giving us an opportunity to hit the ‘buy now’ button rather than bid on him like that if we give him $25 mil a year for 3, but not this soon. Not before Teixeria signs.
If it was any other agent other than Boras, this would be more believable.
I sent a Mariah Carey CD to Jeter to sign back in the late 90′s. Expecting it back any day now…
With this Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy update I wonder if people who brought those stupid “Save the Big Three” shirts will start wearing them again.
One other thing to consider – Boras and the so called package deal with Varitek + Tex to the Sox.
“Save the Big Three” – sure – could be for the automakers in Detroit. It certainly isn’t for Britton, Farnsowrth, and Shelley Duncan
i was operating under the impression that the sox had made an offer, then boras’s counter was a joke so they left and then henry made his statement. to me that meant that the sox’s offer was still available.
everybody’s leaving the door open for the o’s to get thier boy, but angelos isnt buying. its really a shame if i were an O’s fan id be sooooo pissed. i think if baltimore matched boston’s offer tomorrow, tex would be in black and orange on tuesday.
“jesus who’s that idiot that jinx’d this earlier me about gun to my head who would I take. I hate you.”
that would be Nick. lol, sorry to rat you out bro.
Maybe we will sign both
Could be many things:
1- Tex is going to Nats
2- Signing manny gets price back up on Tex.
3- Maybe Boras knows Angels have no interest in Manny so he wants to get him signed while Yanks will pay the price.
4- Maybe when Boras said after sox meeting that Tex is eliminating teams that he told the sox they are out. So he is floating Manny rumor to get LA involved quickly so Tex can sign with Yamks.
Very entertaining to say the least. As long as we come out of this with a bat I will be very happy. Sign both and trade Matsui and Nady for low level prospects? Imagine that.
Still have Damon in LF with swish in RF and Tex at 1st.
I hear Kei Igawa works in a sushi bar on the upper west side and apparently loves signing autographs, taking pictures, but he’s a pretty decent and gracious waiter if you’re just hungry and in a rush.
Ok Carl Banks, can you get off the air now?
I want to hear Jets fans on with Malusis before I go to bed.
I wonder if Tex already knows where he’s going to go, so they allowed ManRam to sign???
Damn you Nick
I was not the “gun to the head” guy. Not guilty.
I know better than to ask Brandon whether he prefers at DR-superstar to a non-DR-poseur.
People can send me stuff if they want. I won’t return it either.
Mrs Texiera wears the pants and they’re pinstriped.
——————————————————-
Dude, you just aren’t funny.
damn, how soft are the j-e-t-s? talkinga about a super bowl then knocked out by seattle and san fran!
will be fun to watch pennington roll over them at G-Men’s stadium next week!
Awesome.. Glad to hear Ian is feeling good about playing winter baseball. I hope he didn’t make too many people look stupid down there.
Morris!!
HAHAHAHAH
I too can not wait to listen to listen to those poor sad Mets-i mean-Jets fans..
It’s beautiful.
Mets Jets Nets
HAHAHAHHA
God I love those people.
Few things amuse me more than jealous Mets and Jets fans.
I’m sorry buddy…
Maybe you’re just bitter about that number 65 Jersey that seems to never be on the big brown truck that passes your driveway every day at 3pm.
Just got back from Giant stadium and that was a hell of a game. Enjoyed the “na na na na hey hey hey gooodbye.” at the end as the Smith jerseys walked up the aisle. So I come back to read that Manny is going to sign with the Yanks tomorrow? That just doesn’t sound like Scott Boras’s modus operandi if you ask me. No fuss no muss the Yanks just sign a 25m per year player? I doubt it. But back to the Giants for a minute, Brandon didn’t you say the jailbird was going to get some touches today? Maybe that was just wishful thinking on my part but he just gets shafted again and again. The road to the superbowl in the NFC may well go through the swamp, and i’ll be at (both) the playoff game(s). 55 days ’til pitchers and catchers?
“I know better than to ask Brandon whether he prefers at DR-superstar to a non-DR-poseur.”
Touchee.
the jets has 7 pro-bowlers? bet big on the nfc in that one!
I think the guilty party has identified himself.
Rob, fantastic game, great that you could attend. I thought the 4-point spread was finished when it went to OT but Ward and Jacobs wouldn’t let it die. I’m glad that next week’s game at Minny is now meaningless and the Giants don’t have to sweat anything until January.
lol great that I could attend indeed, but I still cant feel my toes. Six hours in 20 degrees plus the fun East Rutherford winds (screw you John Kasay) tend to do that for you.
I was listening to Jacobs on the post game radio show and he said essentially “You put me in when you need me to smash people, everyone in the stadium knows i’m getting the ball, and they can’t stop me, they can’t stop me.” I’ll tell you what though he didn’t have that burst of speed that makes him special tonight. So while we all love the diesel smash you in the mouth running he does it seemed like he couldn’t turn on the jets which was disconcerting to say the least.
I’m sorry buddy…
Maybe you’re just bitter about that number 65 Jersey that seems to never be on the big brown truck that passes your driveway every day at 3pm.
—————————————————————
Huh?
It is nice to know that Jacobs will get 2 weeks off. I’m sure there’s no chance he suits up for week 17 and he’ll get the first round bye so he doesn’t play for 3 weeks, should help him get closer to 100%
Ward is an ANIMAL, I hope the Giants can resign him
The Boras BS Express is on fumes right now. Boston’s original offer still stands except Tex would rather go to Baltimore or New York. Boras won’t let Manny sign because otherwise Tex only has one legitimate offer (Sox) and Boras will not have any negotiating power. The one thing that Boras is praying for is for Cashman to make the phone call and play along. Nothing happens with Manny until Cashman decides to make an offer (or doesn’t).
Just as The Catfish signed on Christmas Eve ( 1974 ) Mark Texeria will do the same…2008 Christmas Eve,,,,,There is a need for his services, and the price will be high, but so will the rewards……
PAT M, God bless you, you are sticking with Tex-to-the-Yankees until the end. Who knows, you could still be right. The twists and turns of the Tex/Manny Expressway leave me confused.
Hope you did well this football weekend. The Giants were very good to me.
“I know better than to ask Brandon whether he prefers at DR-superstar to a non-DR-poseur.”
……:x
Pat M,
I haven’t thought Tex to the yankees was every all that likely. But I think the probability of them landing Tex is considerably higher now than it was a week ago (assuming these reports about the manny signing are false).
A lot had to fall into place for them to even have a shot. And a number of those things are falling into place.
Given the market on him isn’t exploding and teams are sticking to their last bids and not negotiating against themselves the yankees could enter the bidding late, particularly now with the angels withdrawing.
This may be a case where the bids never get that far apart and tex simply has to pick the team he’d prefer playing for. I don’t know if the yanks or the sox are going to get into a full scale auction against each other for Tex.
Don’t kid yourself. With last years dropoff in pitching AND offense, Hammerin’ Hank is leaving nothing to chance. Rotation is 90% set (find your pen, Andy!), and — AGAIN — Tex is Bronx-bound. Period.
OK which one of you are messing w/ Manny’s Wiki page ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Ramirez
Brandon,
did you got bored, and wikipedia’d Manny? lol
Dude I’m hoping it’s not true, this is the last thing I want !
…..is a Dominican-American professional baseball player who is **currently an outfielder for the New York Yankees**
seriously who got mad bored tonight?
Don’t kid yourself. With last years dropoff in pitching AND offense, Hammerin’ Hank is leaving nothing to chance. Rotation is 90% set (find your pen, Andy!), and — AGAIN — Tex is Bronx-bound. Period.
————-
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but big mouth Hank doesn’t make those decisions as evidenced by the past year.
Hal and Cashman make those decisions and they’ve both said repeatedly that they are going to lower the payroll from last season.
Don’t bet on Teixeira coming to the Bronx. They haven’t showed much interest at all, especially since they signed Sabathia.
same here, brandon, same here. why can’t they at least contact Dunn’s agent?
My Adam Dunn dream
brandon,
at least Dunn won’t clog up 1B (if signed to play that posoition) for **8 years.**
The House that Adam Dunn Built?
I don’t know about that.
At some point, Pete is going to have to eat his words regarding either Tex or Manny, because it’s looking increasingly likely that the Yankees will sign one of the two.
Pete, I seriously hope you’ll man up if this ends up happening. Everyone makes mistakes, even know-it-all beat writers, so we’ll forgive you and move on.
Yeah! Manny!!
Hal and Cashman make those decisions and they’ve both said repeatedly that they are going to lower the payroll from last season.
——————-
Remind me not to fund you in a poker game with these two…
=
Don’t bet on Teixeira coming to the Bronx. They haven’t showed much interest at all, especially since they signed Sabathia.
——————-
Maybe *you* haven’t been paying attention, or know something no one else knows. Unlike spelchek.
“at least Dunn won’t clog up 1B (if signed to play that posoition) for 8 years. ”
With Dunn, 1 year is too many… besides he has his heart set on being a Cub.
At some point, Pete is going to have to eat his words regarding either Tex or Manny, because it’s looking increasingly likely that the Yankees will sign one of the two.
————-
Don’t bet on it. Neither are coming to the Bronx.
“Don’t bet on it. Neither are coming to the Bronx.”
I like that idea.
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, or know something no one else knows. Unlike spelchek.
———-
Did you even bother to read Kat O’Brien’s story or are you just ignoring it because it’s not what you want to hear?
They’ve been in contact twice with Boras regarding Teixeira and both times they were initiated by Boras himself trying to get them involved.
Off topic, but on a Yankees usenet group I browse, it was posted that Derek Jeter and Minka Kelly were househunting in LA. Much happiness to them both. But one of the posters in a sort of off-handed way said Jeter will be a Dodger after his contact with the Yanks expires in 2010. It got me thinking, could this happen? If Torre or Mattingly is at the helm in LA, do any of you think Jeter would finish his career elsewhere?
I am not someone who does not see the flaws in Jeter’s game, and I am not someone who has come up with a stat for his intangibles or clutchiness. But, this would be hard to imagine.
“They’ve been in contact twice with Boras regarding Teixeira and both times they were initiated by Boras himself trying to get them involved.”
——————-
You take this as fact? Something you’ve read online? Unless you’re in the inner circle of either party, you have absolutely no idea what is going on.
I don’t either, all I’m saying is the Yanks can’t pass on this opportunity. And they won’t.
can anybody update/change a wiki page?
Brandon if someone was going to say to you , your starting a franchise. You get to choose between Tex,ManRam and Dunn you’d pick Dunn?? Dunn’s not a good fit for NY, we just got rid of Dunn(Giambi).. Come on.. Your just trying to make talk on here, bc no one on here has friends..
I don’t either, all I’m saying is the Yanks can’t pass on this opportunity. And they won’t.
————-
Prepare to be disappointed because it’s not going to happen.
If Teixeira goes to Boston, so what?
Pitching and defense still wins championships and the Red Sox have more than a fair share of questions regarding their rotation after Beckett, Lester, and Matsuzaka.
They also have a less than stellar bullpen outside of Papelbon.
“Brandon if someone was going to say to you , your starting a franchise. You get to choose between Tex,ManRam and Dunn you’d pick Dunn?? Dunn’s not a good fit for NY, we just got rid of Dunn(Giambi).. Come on.. Your just trying to make talk on here, bc no one on here has friends..”
??? The point is he is a headache, Dunn is cheap now if I’m starting a franchise that is a different story but this is not the case, this is just about adding offensive production to a tight SP staff that’s why at 2 or 3 yrs. Dunn would have been a good choice. Now if we’re starting a franchise it’s Manny or Arod for me.
**He’s not looking for a huge deal, but a fair one. **
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-firs.html
I dont care what anyone says. Its looking more and more Boston’s still Teixeira’s big player. The Yankees need to bid for Teixeira NOW when we might be able to get him for $160 Million. Boston is still around but backed off a bit. If the Angels are out we need to strike. The Nats cant be real players in this thing. Lets get into this bidding now. We might be able to get him at our price and still keep him out of Boston.
LOL
“The Yankees need to bid for Teixeira NOW when we might be able to get him for $160 Million. ”
LOLOLOLOLOL….Boras told Cash, 8/180 and he’s a Yankee. Cashman isn’t going to bite at that price.
December 25th, 2008 christmas day
NY Post Headline:
“Yanks Get Teixera”
LOL you wish.
December 25th, 2008 christmas day
NY Post Headline:
“Yanks Get Teixera”
————-
Yeah, right.
And on Page Six you’ll see the headline, “Viper bags Megan Fox”
My husband told me that ESPN was scrawling that the Yankees will sign BOTH Teixeira and Ramirez. Yeah, right.
my take:
Boras leaked the info to the DR newspaper. It is his way of forcing the Redsox to be a “factor” (to increase their bid on Tex)
eventually, am expecting NYY will sign Manny. Not until after the year, however.
Scott Boras = predictable
vinny-b -
My take is that this is really a circus – a lot of fun to watch, but nerve-wracking, too. It can’t end soon enough for me (I’m allergic to circuses!).
What would MLB do without the evil Yankees who print their own money????????
Doreen-
what channel was that on? ESPN has three channels.
“My take is that this is really a circus – a lot of fun to watch, but nerve-wracking, too. It can’t end soon enough for me (I’m allergic to circuses”
definitely.
off topic: if Manny signs it will be a circus. (paraphrasing my favorite Craig Nettles quote)
J-E-T-S HA HA HA!
“My husband told me that ESPN was scrawling that the Yankees will sign BOTH Teixeira and Ramirez. Yeah, right.”
do you realize the pure awesomeness that would ensue if this were the case?
not that i expect it, but thats just pure filthy.
vinny-b
Last night on YES was the Craig Nettles Yankeeography. Great stuff.
Turn Two -
Man, the whole world would HATE the Yankees (including those who don’t already) if that were to happen. I don’t want Manny, and even though I’d like Teixeira, I’m not sure, but if the Yankees had both of them, at least on paper they wouldn’t lose a game!
There’s no denying the pure pleasure of watching Manny hit. As for the other stuff, no thanks. But in getting either one (Tex or Manny), the Yankees would also have to move some other players, and that won’t be all that easy to do.
We are gonna end up with Ramirez. I know I know… No we arent, Yankees are cutting payroll. Just make sure to play Billy Joel’s Piano Man while you see him put on the stripes at his conference.
Tex will go to Boston. He will have good years but never fit in.
Mr. Fox -
I’m not getting the Piano Man reference.
i will NEVER root for manny, not even in pinstripes. no chance.
Get over yourself.
Oh no its not a reference just a sadish song to listen to while seeing what seems to be 70 percent of the people on here’s worst nightmare lol.
I can just see some Yankee fans clawing at their faces while their t.v.s are on ESPN and Manny is goofily plopping the hat on with a baggy Yankee jersey with the 3 yr 75 million deal headline and that song playing.
Manny comes to the plate with Jeter on 2nd and Alex on 3rd, but wait….
manny’s still mad about not having an extra locker in the clubhouse so he’s refusing to come out of the dugout! looks like girardi is gonna have to pinch-hit gardner with the world series on the line!
“some good posts in the previous thread RE: the manny rumor.
i suggest people read those before posting here.”
Um no, im not reading all the uhnreds of past posts to figure out what works and doesnt work. Nice try
Unlike ARod, hasn’t Manny always been money during the playoffs.
Doreen
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:10 am
Mr. Fox –
I’m not getting the Piano Man reference.
————————————————————
It must be in reference to the piano on his back when he “runs” to first base.
“Tex will go to Boston. He will have good years but never fit in.”
Self-centered and white. He will fit in.
A small correction on a name. It’s ***Graig Nettles***
manny faked his way out of a series against the yankees in the pennant race both last yr and the year before.
and you probably remember his pinch strikeout vs. the yankees when he didnt want to play.
if the guy quits vs. the yankees in a pennant race, he could quit at any time.
Mr. Fox -
Gotcha.
Myself – if it happens, if Manny is a Yankee – you root for the laundry. You want the Yankees to win. I would hope for the best – meaning that Manny does not “be” Manny. Can’t worry about things over which I have no control.
My husband told me that ESPN was scrawling that the Yankees will sign BOTH Teixeira and Ramirez. Yeah, right.
—————————————————-
I would doubt it….but can you imagine if the Yankees did something like that? Madness! lol
gb, i caught a foul ball off graig nettles at the stadium way back. my gf (now wife) wrote ‘craig nettles’ and the date on the ball and i didnt notice for about a dozen years till my brother pointed out the misspelling. fortunatly one pen stroke and its fixed!
Oh, nuts – I made that same mistake in my post – I always get confused Craig or Graig.
An argument as to why people should stick with traditional spelling of names.
“Unlike ARod, hasn’t Manny always been money during the playoffs.”
Lately but not always. Manny has a .286 BA/.399 OBP in 21 postseason series and A-Rod has a .279 BA /.361 OBP in 10 postseason series.
“Myself – if it happens, if Manny is a Yankee – you root for the laundry. You want the Yankees to win. I would hope for the best – meaning that Manny does not “be” Manny. Can’t worry about things over which I have no control.”
and i think this is a very reasonable, logical way of approaching the situation.
you may not love Manny as a person, but its hard to deny he makes any lineup he hits in better automatically… and if thats the Yankees next year, then having ARod and Manny in the middle of the lineup is an especially good thing not just Yankees fans, but also for Yankees pitchers who appreciate offensive production.
lifelong yankees fan
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:33 am
gb, i caught a foul ball off graig nettles at the stadium way back. my gf (now wife) wrote ‘craig nettles’ and the date on the ball and i didnt notice for about a dozen years till my brother pointed out the misspelling. fortunatly one pen stroke and its fixed!
————————————————————
Sparky Lyle told a story about Nettles in an interview once. A writer called him “Craig” and Nettles corrected him. The writer made the same mistake again, and Nettle told him the interview was over until he learned his name. The guy said “What’s the difference?” Nettles said that if there wasn’t a difference, he didn’t need an interview.
you people really want to sign a guy who will turn 37 in may to a 3 yr deal? paying top dollar to watch his skills diminish?
I don’t know if I like Ramirez as a person or not, since I don’t know him. I doubt that he has any integrity, though. I don’t like him as a ball player, because he’s a dog. I do like him as a hitter, though.
Turn Two -
The funny thing is, we don’t really know any of these ballplayers “as a person.” We just have to make assumptions based on whatever is glimpsed through the media and how they present themselves before, during and after games. Sometimes, you get a good read, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you get players who are media savvy and can project a positive image even though they are creeps in their personal lives. Sometimes you get players who are really clueless when being interviewed, or come off as jerks, but are genuinely good people “in real life.”
Bottom line – you’re a lot safer as a fan to not get too invested in that image. (Though, it’s easier said than done, and I’ll be the first to admit that there are players I “like” and “dislike” for the very reasons I’ve cited above.)
“Bottom line – you’re a lot safer as a fan to not get too invested in that image.”
amen.
Merry Christmas to me, if the Yanks sign Man-rod…
doreen, thanks for your advice on how i should think as a fan, but i’ve kinda worked that out myself over the years.
GB7 -
Good story about Nettles. You know, if your livelihood involves interviewing players, it really ought to be part of your homework to make sure you get the players’ names correct. Just like, if you want to be president of the US, you really ought to practice how to pronounce the word “nuclear.”
I agree with all the posts, I just love what he does to the line-up.
Interesting if the Yanks pull off the 4 fecta, and go after Tex to, I know highly unlikely but not impossible..
along these lines of getting a read on a guy from a couple interviews they do before or after a game, etc….
great tv spot they did on 60 minutes a week or two ago on Pete Carroll… another situation where you think you know who a guy is, and then you dig a little deeper and find out he’s even a better person in real life privately than he is just in the public eye as a football coach.
Doreen
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:47 am
GB7 –
Good story about Nettles. You know, if your livelihood involves interviewing players, it really ought to be part of your homework to make sure you get the players’ names correct. Just like, if you want to be president of the US, you really ought to practice how to pronounce the word “nuclear.”
————————————————————
Doreen, no doubt that the President of the US needs to know the difference between “Nuclear” thinking and “Unclear” thinking. All depends on how you use the “UN”.
“Interesting if the Yanks pull off the 4 fecta, and go after Tex to, I know highly unlikely but not impossible..”
just a total, complete, and utter embarrassment of riches at that point.
Ok well not all posts, the payroll isn’t going to be going down by much, actually it may be a little higher IMO.
I read over and over again how great Manny is in the post-season so I checked.
His career BA in post-season play is .286, with a .399 OBP and .550 SLG. He’s driven in 74 runs in 103 post-season games.
That’s good, but hardly the lead-pipe cinch guaranteed clutch performer many on this blog claim he is.
Manny would make the lineup better, but he’d make the outfield defense significantly worse.
Just imagine how bad an outfield of Manny in LF and Damon in CR would be. So a major chunk of his offensive upside would be negated by his horrific defense.
But if they made Manny the DH – then you’d have to try and trade Matsui and their options would be extremely limited given that he’s a 35 yr old DH with bad knees.
Even if they found a suitor for Matsui, they’d still have to eat a large chunk of his contract.
Manny is a better hitter than Matsui for sure – but still you have to subtract Matsui’s numbers from Manny’s to figure out what the marginal value of Manny is.
And none of this even begins to address Manny’s behavior and the odds being zero that he’d behave himself during a multi-year deal.
I really don’t see this happening regardless what happens to Teixeira. Cashman has made some bad moves in the past, but I doubt he really has any intention of signing Manny.
Manny isn’t really Cashman’s kind of player.
86w183
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:51 am
I read over and over again how great Manny is in the post-season so I checked.
His career BA in post-season play is .286, with a .399 OBP and .550 SLG. He’s driven in 74 runs in 103 post-season games.
That’s good, but hardly the lead-pipe cinch guaranteed clutch performer many on this blog claim he is.
————————————————————
If you give Rodriguez the same number of at bats, their numbers come out pretty close to the same.
86w183:
Maybe so, but he is better “clutch hitter” than any other option out there, and we all watch he hits in big situations.
lifelong yankees fan -
Lighten up. It wasn’t “advice,” simply a comment. I personally don’t care what anyone else does or how anyone else feels. And I mean that in the nicest way possible.
““clutch hitter” than any other option out there, and we all watch he hits in big situations.”
you realize that there is no such thing as clutch hitter
Yeah, ARod is .279, .361, .483. Biggest difference is RBI where Manny has 74 in 103 games and Alex has 17 in 39 games.
none of you manny people have anything to say about paying him $20+ million per for his years at age 37, 38 and 39 (and probably 40)?
Call it what you want…he gets hits in important at bats..and makes the whole line-up better…
” There is no indication whatsoever that the Yankees have gotten involved. ” It is blanket statements like these that make our host look foolish.
I do…Money well spent…….
“That’s good, but hardly the lead-pipe cinch guaranteed clutch performer many on this blog claim he is.”
just out of curiosity, is there a way to find a list of players who have had as many, or close to as many, playoff ABs that Manny has had?
just looking at those numbers, which are very good when you consider the level of pitching he is facing in those playoff ABs, i wonder how many other players can come close to, or perform consistently better, than those numbers over that many ABs.
86w183
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:56 am
Yeah, ARod is .279, .361, .483. Biggest difference is RBI where Manny has 74 in 103 games and Alex has 17 in 39 games.
————————————————————
That wouldn’t have anything to do with how well the hitters in front of him did, would it?
Jorge Posada Celebrity BaseBowl Tournament
Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:13 pm (PST)
Jorge Posada Celebrity BaseBowl Tournament
December 22, 2008
The Jorge Posada Foundation, started by Yankees All-Star Catcher, Jorge Posada Foundation and his wife, Laura, will hold their 2nd Annual Celebrity BaseBowl Tournament next year.
The tournament, to be held at the Lincoln Center Plaza, will help support the families and sufferers of Craniosynostosis.
The Jorge Posada Foundation Celebrity BaseBowl Tournament is on January 18.
Jorge better not be bowling, not with his bum shoulder!
My point is not that Manny isn’t a great hitter. He is. My point is that he is not a deity with a bat in his hands. He is great, but far from the ultimate super productive clutch guy that some in here think he is.
Just another piece of evidence to show he’s not worth the cash, let alone the baggage.
What do the Yanks do if Tex does pull a “Beltran” and offer to sign for say 7 years, $ 140?
That Manny report in the Dominican paper is bizarre.
I can understand why the Dominican paper might have better sources on the financial negotiations of players who are natives of the island and/or live there during the off-season and/or have Hispanic agents like Cuza.
But Manny is from New York and the Boras, the media control freak, is his agent. (Nothing leaks from Boras’ people, except by design.) Manny’s family, moreover, still lives in New York, I understand. And I thought Rasta-M lived in the U.S. all year around as well.
Very strange.
Actually, I’d prefer to see the Yanks sign Teixeira or Abreu. They’d profit more from a left-handed or switch hitting 3-hole hitter.
Still, how can you quibble with a hitter as talented a Manny? Should the report prove accurate, I suspect the Yankees would try to trade Matsui again to SF or perhaps, Seattle.
How does Matsui for Bedard sound to anyone? Recent reports on Bedard’s health indicate he could return by the All-Star break. The Mariners pay him $7 million next year, after which he’s a free-agent. Would he be worth the gamble? I certainly think so.
I’m just not sure the Mariners would entertain the trade or Matsui would waive his no-trade clause to play with Ichiro.
In any case, I think I’d almost like to see the Yankees sign Manny to spite Michael Kay. His sanctimony about Manny of late has become repugnant. Why do people with microphone suddenly think God appointed them his vicar on earth?
As for his likely effect on the Yankees clubhouse? Well, Johnny and A-Rod certainly love Manny. Maybe he’d even induce General Girardi to lighten up a little bit. Players, media, and fans would benefit in that event.
TurnTwo
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:59 am
“That’s good, but hardly the lead-pipe cinch guaranteed clutch performer many on this blog claim he is.”
just out of curiosity, is there a way to find a list of players who have had as many, or close to as many, playoff ABs that Manny has had?
just looking at those numbers, which are very good when you consider the level of pitching he is facing in those playoff ABs, i wonder how many other players can come close to, or perform consistently better, than those numbers over that many ABs.
————————————————————
Sure, just look at the rosters of the Red Sox and Yankees over the years. Start with Jeter and Bernie Williams.
I’ve always said, “if” Tex was available, he would be my 1st choice..I just think we need one of them..
” Cashman has made some bad moves in the past, but I doubt he really has any intention of signing Manny.
Manny isn’t really Cashman’s kind of player.”
but you dont allow for any room for the chance that Cashman may get overruled on this one.
he’s the GM, but he’s not the be all, end all in the organization… Hal and Hank are.
ive said it before; if Manny is signed, i would automatically put it into the “Steinbrenner Family signing” column.
and again, i wonder if any reporters have called Johnny Damon to see what kind of role he’s playing in all this:
about Manny’s actions last year in Boston…
about if he would like to play with Manny again or if he thinks Manny can provide more risk than reward to the club…
and if Damon has called Cashman to try and sell Manny to him or if Cashman has called Damon for any insight to Manny as a ballplayer and a member of the clubhouse vs the idea of Manny the baseball player as it’s been played out in the media.
Here’s two
Jeter 123 games — .309, .377, .469
Chipper Jones 92 games — .288, .411, .459
” There is no indication whatsoever that the Yankees have gotten involved. ” It is blanket statements like these that make our host look foolish.
————
Actually, Pete is exactly right.
The fans were kept pretty well informed regarding the goings on with both Sabathia and Burnett.
We have heard nothing like that in regards to Teixeira or Manny.
Boras has rarely been tight-lipped about negotiations and plays the media as well as anyone. We’ve heard nothing concrete whatsoever about the Yanks being involved in the Teixeira talks.
Pete and Kay O’Brien are absolutely right. The Yanks have been on the outside of these Teixeira talks since the beginning.
GreenBeret7:
I agree Bernie and Jeter were getting hits in important at bats…in the past…
“Sure, just look at the rosters of the Red Sox and Yankees over the years. Start with Jeter and Bernie Williams.”
of course.
but what i’m talking abut is more broad-ranging and historical than the late 90′s.
and what are Jeter and Bernie’s all time postseason numbers compared to Manny?
Make no mistake about it, Cashman wants to win…he will do what it takes to achieve….he now has the resources to do both, keep the farm intacted, and sign FA’s..
sorry achieve it…
Actually I don’t see Tex as a Cashman guy, 8-10yrs he doesn’t like those type of contracts.
“As for his likely effect on the Yankees clubhouse? Well, Johnny and A-Rod certainly love Manny. Maybe he’d even induce General Girardi to lighten up a little bit. Players, media, and fans would benefit in that event.”
great point… people, for one, arent giving enough credit to the players already in the clubhouse and their ability to handle Manny.
or the fact that Manny would have a fresh start with a new team, but have faces who he already knows and has a certain comfort level with.
plus, people just assume that Girardi and Manny would be like oil and water, and it would be all tension, and in-fighting, etc… but maybe a guy like Manny would help loosen Girardi up a bit and not tear him apart from the seams… didnt think about it like that. you just never know.
Bernie 121 games — .275, .371, .480… 80 RBI
Reggie Jackson 77 games — .278, .358, .527… 48 RBI
its Manny time !!
I do have to thank Boras in one respect. The Yankees season ended 3 months ago and yet the baseball sections of the New York papers is still the first thing I read every morning.
For that, I’m grateful. Even if I deplore the man’s tactics.
He certainly has a flair for drama, that’s for sure.
but you dont allow for any room for the chance that Cashman may get overruled on this one.
he’s the GM, but he’s not the be all, end all in the organization… Hal and Hank are.
ive said it before; if Manny is signed, i would automatically put it into the “Steinbrenner Family signing” column.
—————–
You should know by now that Hank doesn’t make these decisions and Hal is smart enough to know that Manny isn’t really going to help the team all that much when you consider his overall cost (his contract plus the cost of eating a chunk of Matsui’s contract) and all the baggage that comes with him.
Besides, I don’t think the Steinbrenners signed Cashman to a three-year extension just two months ago just to overrule him on such an issue now. They’ll probably let him do his job and make the call.
Maybe they would overrule him – but I think Hal is a lot smarter than that and he’s the guy who controls the purse strings – not Hank.
ok, in those cases:
.286, with a .399 OBP and .550 SLG. >
.309, .377, .469?
.288, .411, .459?
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:06 am
“Sure, just look at the rosters of the Red Sox and Yankees over the years. Start with Jeter and Bernie Williams.”
of course.
but what i’m talking abut is more broad-ranging and historical than the late 90’s.
and what are Jeter and Bernie’s all time postseason numbers compared to Manny?
————————————————————
The first thing that sports writers and fans had better learn to do is seperate the league series numbers from World Series numbers. Adding the together as “post season numbers” distorts everything, since before 1969 there were no other numbers and at least 7 fewer games a year to add to them.
Guys .. HOW is putting one of the best Hitters of all-time . and sure lock HALL OF FAMER ( Manny ) a bad thing ??
Manny Arod . or Arod Manny . .is UNREAL !
“Maybe they would overrule him – but I think Hal is a lot smarter than that and he’s the guy who controls the purse strings – not Hank.”
and there were news reports that said Hal was just as interested in Manny than Hank was.
i guess we’ll find out soon enough.
mantle: 65 G (all in WS) .333/.467/.535 18 Hr 40 RBI
“As for his likely effect on the Yankees clubhouse? Well, Johnny and A-Rod certainly love Manny. Maybe he’d even induce General Girardi to lighten up a little bit. Players, media, and fans would benefit in that event.”
———–
That’s baloney. Manny isn’t going to change and he’s going to bring his cancer from one clubhouse to another.
Sheffield, Brown, and Johnson all had reputations that were less than stellar before they donned the pinstripes and Cashman couldn’t wait to get rid of them once they wore out their welcome.
Manny is worse than all of them.
And all that took place with Torre in the dugout. GI Joe is a slightly different animal.
TurnTwo
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:11 am
great point… people, for one, arent giving enough credit to the players already in the clubhouse and their ability to handle Manny.
————————————————————
You mean like how well the players (Ramirez’ friends) in the Boston clubhouse voted to get him off of the team?
When a manager like Francona can’t get a player to play for him, something’s wrong somewhere.
“The first thing that sports writers and fans had better learn to do is seperate the league series numbers from World Series numbers.”
but does that mean that division series numbers shouldnt count for anything then? or count less than numbers in the LCS or WS?
of course not. just need to be able to recognize that numbers of RBIs, HRs, etc, can be distorted to favor players of recent time because of the extra round of the playoffs they play in.
Hey, are any of you experts on NFL scheduling?
The NFL currently lists the Jets AND Giants as scheduled to play at 1:00pm on Sunday. Is that possible? I can’t remember the last time the two New York teams played at the same time.
I have tickets to the Jets-Dolphins game.
Shouldn’t I expect the NFL to move either the Jets game or the Giants game to 4:00pm?
anybody wanna guess which yankee put these WS #’s up?:
28 games
.333/.371/.566
5 HR/ 19 RBI
cue final jeopardy theme….
“You mean like how well the players (Ramirez’ friends) in the Boston clubhouse voted to get him off of the team?
When a manager like Francona can’t get a player to play for him, something’s wrong somewhere.”
Manny already checked out of Boston… different ballgame.
and btw, despite “quitting” on that team, he was still producing offensive numbers the Yankees at that time would have killed for, and the Saux benefited and won games from.
and there were news reports that said Hal was just as interested in Manny than Hank was.
———-
No, that’s not true. The reports were that Hank wanted him – but Hal was in the middle and both Cashman and Girardi were against the idea.
So, truth be told, the only guy who is sold on Manny is Hank – and we’ve known his lust for Manny for some time now.
lifelong yankees fan
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:17 am
mantle: 65 G (all in WS) .333/.467/.535 18 Hr 40 RBI
————————————————————
Mantle didn’t have .333/.467/.535 numbers in the WS. He hit .257/.374/.535. He doesn’t need help in inflating his numbers.
That’s all media talk…CC didn’t like NY remember that..
You mean like how well the players (Ramirez’ friends) in the Boston clubhouse voted to get him off of the team?
When a manager like Francona can’t get a player to play for him, something’s wrong somewhere.
————–
Exactly. All this pie in the sky stuff about expecting Manny to behave himself in the Yankee clubhouse are fooling themselves.
The people who knew him best couldn’t wait to get rid of him.
“That’s baloney. Manny isn’t going to change and he’s going to bring his cancer from one clubhouse to another.”
you mean the clubhouse cancer that helped bring 2 World Series Championships to Boston? cool.
and seriously, i dont see how anyone has a crystal ball to know whether or not something is definitely going to happen like this.
we know Manny is a character, and we know he comes with risk… but beyond that, we have no clue as to how he or the other members of that team will interact or react to one another yet.
smokin jumper!:
Tino..
the answer is:
billy martin
Tex wants to go to an East Coast winner. The Mets, and Phillies are out. That leaves the Sox, and Yankees. The Sox say they are out, and the Yanks are just monitoring the situation, and say they aren’t in it. That leaves the Orioles, and Nationals, two losing clubs vying for Texiera. The trouble with Boras, is he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. But it looks like instead of the Sox, and Yanks bidding against each other for Tex’s services, they are just trying to keep him away from the other team, with no intention of signing him.
Is he still available?
“Exactly. All this pie in the sky stuff about expecting Manny to behave himself in the Yankee clubhouse are fooling themselves.”
its not pie in the sky… its not knowing what to expect at all, so part of it, like Doreen said earlier, is hoping for the best, and expecting some moments of the worst to come along for the ride.
From MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch – the Yankees writer:
Just swapped text messages with Brian Cashman, who wrote two words to splash some cold water on the Impacto Deportivo report of Manny Ramirez receiving a three-year, $75 million offer from the Yankees:
“Not true.”
———-
So much for Manny.
Sunny ,. . don’t worry . . he’s coming !
Where are my returns??
These should be two separate lines…
Let’s see if the hard return works
not so much.
“That’s baloney. Manny isn’t going to change and he’s going to bring his cancer from one clubhouse to another.”
Same Manny who helped Cleveland be respectable in the 90s, Boston win two titles, and LA Dodgers get to the NLCS?
Maybe he and ARod can have their own little clique and keep each other happy. Ill take my chances. He is a proven winner, and Tex has never won anything, and has all the makings of a playoff choker.
TurnTwo,
If Manny’s behavior wasn’t a legitimate issue – he’d have a lot more than zero offers on the table since the beginning of FA.
By all accounts, there was no positive talk about Manny during the entire week of the Winter Meetings.
GMs were appalled at what he did and they should be. Don’t be surprised if he has to come crawling back to the Dodgers for a contract.
I’d bet my next paycheck that the Yanks won’t sign him.
Manny should have took the Dodgers first 2/45 offer. He will still be unemployed by February. No one wants to touch him – too risky
That would be worrisome Mike.
Cash never reveals his hand, until a player agree’s…
if tex had any balls, he’d just say i can make the Orioles good and sign there. they have young talent and you put him and markakis together and you’ve got a start.
he wants it all on a platter.
Playoff choker? – you mean when Tex went 7-for-15 with an RBI in the Angels’ Division Series loss to the Red Sox.
“I’d bet my next paycheck that the Yanks won’t sign him.”
and i’m not saying its a sure thing, either.
all i’m saying is that i think all this stuff is really way overblown, and when its all said and done, Manny will prove he’s still more of an offensive force than a player who will tear down the next organization he signs with, whether that happens to turn out to be the Yankees or whoever else signs him.
Well, we know that Arod and Cano are pals with Manny… I’m more worrisome about Manny’s repoir with management than anything he does with teammates. I’d rather he just sign with the Angels.
Same Manny who helped Cleveland be respectable in the 90s, Boston win two titles, and LA Dodgers get to the NLCS?
————-
Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, and Gary Sheffield all won titles elsewhere before their pinstripe reign but didn’t help this team win squat.
In fact, Cashman couldn’t wait to get rid of them.
Sure, those guys were considered way past their prime when they put on the Yankee uniform – but Manny is 37 yrs old and the very same thing could happen to him.
And Manny’s clubhouse behavior is far worse than any of those aforementioned players.
Playoff choker? – you mean when Tex went 7-for-15 with an RBI in the Angels’ Division Series loss to the Red Sox.
Yes and in 2004 Games 1-3, A-Rod was hitting pretty well too. One series doesnt have anyone believing Mark Teixeira will be the answer.
In addition, Manny won’t cost @20-25M. He will cost that plus the 6-10M the Yankees would have to eat in order to trade Matsui. The Mariners may be about the only team that might take on all of Matsui’s salary, because of the Matsui/Ichiro publicity it would create for the Japanese market. If the Mariners would take Matsui and maybe Kennedy or Melky for Bedard, then I say go for it. But I don’t see Bedard coming that cheap.
He almost seems like he will be another Diva who thinks he is worth $23 Million a year even though he never won anything or played a full season for a winning team.
“Playoff choker? – you mean when Tex went 7-for-15 with an RBI in the Angels’ Division Series loss to the Red Sox.”
exactly! division loss? he shouldve done more!
/sarcasm.
still with the manny talk?
cash will never let it happen, period.
Sheffield? we all know about what he felt….he was a true cancer..
If they get Manny why in the world would you trade Matsui…
“Just swapped text messages with Brian Cashman, who wrote two words to splash some cold water on the Impacto Deportivo report of Manny Ramirez receiving a three-year, $75 million offer from the Yankees:
“Not true.”
There’s still a chance the Yankees make a push for Manny, but it really appears unlikely until after Mark Teixeira signs. That report said an announcement would be made Monday or Tuesday, but especially with the holidays approaching, the odds of having another huge gala press conference at the old Yankee Stadium in 2008 are dwindling”
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com.....not_t.html
TurnTwo Part I
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Manny already checked out of Boston… different ballgame.
and btw, despite “quitting” on that team, he was still producing offensive numbers the Yankees at that time would have killed for, and the Saux benefited and won games from.
————————————————————
***Here’s Manny being Manny in his two months in LA. Tell me that he’s changed since leaving Boston***
In what could be characterized as the first “Manny being Manny” incident with the Dodgers, when his teammates took to the field at the top of the ninth inning against Philadelphia at Dodger Stadium, Manny did not appear and nobody knew where he was. After several minutes of searching for him he finally jogged onto the field with the front of his uniform unbuttoned. He said he needed to use the restroom. He returned with a red glove instead of a black glove he used the innings before.
Nobody privy toward what the thoughts are of the Yankee hierarchy will post plans on this board. Even Hank Steinbrenner is being conspicuouly quiet.
All the media and fans can do is speculate that Teixeira is the priority plan and Manny is the secondary plan.
Manny saying he “expects” a 3-year deal from the Yankees is Scott Boras talking. It’s part of his Teixeira strategy.
the manny thing is funny
whats even funnier are the people who think they would put manny in LF and damon in CF after they spent a quarter of a billion dollars on a new pitching staff.
“In addition, Manny won’t cost @20-25M. He will cost that plus the 6-10M the Yankees would have to eat in order to trade Matsui.”
there is a problem here?
TurnTwo Part II
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Off the field
***Before his first game with the Dodgers, a press conference was held in which members of the media had the opportunity to ask Ramirez questions. He joked around with many of the reporters, saying among other things that the turmoil between him and the Red Sox would be turned into a Spanish telenovela, that he no longer hits home runs, just line drives, and if he had been traded for Brett Favre, he could only play backup. He switched frequently between English and Spanish during the interviews***
***On August 30, 2008, after a game against the Arizona Diamondbacks, Manny was interviewed by Josh Suchan about the game. Ramirez was vague and responded to a few of the questions with “I don’t know.” Towards the end of the interview, Ramirez simply stated that he felt like he is on vacation and that he is “happy to be alive.”***
***After the Dodgers lost in the playoffs, Manny was asked about his future.” Gas is up, and so am I”, was his reply, indicating that he expected to be valued highly in the free agent market. Ironically, at the point this was said, gas in America was going down by an exponential amount***
Remind everyone how that’s a different ballgame”. Looks like the same problem as in Boston.
“expecting Manny to behave himself in the Yankee clubhouse are fooling themselves.”
People who believe they know how any individual player acts in the clubhouse are also fooling themselves.
Manny was reportedly a pain in the butt in the clubhouse in Boston for years. It took 7.5 years and 2 WS for them to tire of it. Noble but silly of fans to think 24 grown men need to be protected from the evil of Manny or any other player.
Re: Manny signing before Tex
1) Eliminates the Angels’ plan – B target, thus forcing them back into the Tex bidding or else they come up empty handed.
2) Forces the Red Sox to answer the Yankees offseason with a big splash move of their own.
Imagine if the Yankees signed CC, AJ, Andy AND Manny while the Sox sat on their hands while Tex took significantly more money to play for the Nationals or the Orioles?
“In what could be characterized as the first “Manny being Manny” incident with the Dodgers, when his teammates took to the field at the top of the ninth inning against Philadelphia at Dodger Stadium, Manny did not appear and nobody knew where he was. After several minutes of searching for him he finally jogged onto the field with the front of his uniform unbuttoned. He said he needed to use the restroom. He returned with a red glove instead of a black glove he used the innings before.”
and this obviously was a hint of the total demise to the once proud Dodger organization that followed soon thereafter.
GreenBeret7:
That’s funny, he needed to use the bathroom, and I bet it lightened up the mood in the club house.
TurnTwo Part II
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Off the field
***Before his first game with the Dodgers, a press conference was held in which members of the media had the opportunity to ask Ramirez questions. He joked around with many of the reporters, saying among other things that the turmoil between him and the Red Sox would be turned into a Spanish telenovela, that he no longer hits home runs, just line drives, and if he had been traded for Brett Favre, he could only play backup. He switched frequently between English and Spanish during the interviews***
The Yankees aren’t going to sign Teixeira or Ramirez. Accept it and move on.
Why not when you purchased strikeout pitchers, I wasn’t asking to get Manny for a diving catch in LF….
“If they get Manny why in the world would you trade Matsui…”
Because the DH must be either Manny or Matsui. Damon in CF and Matsui/Manny in LF is a train wreck I would rather not see. They will give back as many runs as they create. If you have Manny, you don’t need an offensive force in CF, defense becomes the priority there.
The Yanks will sign one off them…
I wonder how many times Joe Benigno will scream “oh the pain” on WFAN today.
Dude as much as I’m not in favor of it I think they’re signing Manny.
That would be the same outfield from last year with much better pitching…
On August 30, 2008, after a game against the Arizona Diamondbacks, Manny was interviewed by Josh Suchan about the game. Ramirez was vague and responded to a few of the questions with “I don’t know.” Towards the end of the interview, Ramirez simply stated that he felt like he is on vacation and that he is “happy to be alive.”
GB, i realize you are trying to make a point, but in neither situation did Manny’s actions have any affect on his personal on the field performance in LA, nor did it lead to the demise of the Dodger team.
if anything, those stories kind of made me chuckle a little bit.
Any playoff stat is going be a victim of small sample size (other than the Yankee teams of the 90′s). So take what you want from it, but it would be just as erroneous to extrapolate an arod type of fall off as it would a manny rise. But so far, Tex’s stats (as SMALL as they are) show no indication of a fall off – like it or not.
“Why not when you purchased strikeout pitchers, I wasn’t asking to get Manny for a diving catch in LF….”
If they had Koufax, Gibson, and Nolan Ryan in their prime, there will still be balls hit to the outfield. No pitcher has struck out 27 in a game.
S.A.- CC+Wang=An Awesome 1 and 2! No Manny!
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 am
I wonder how many times Joe Benigno will scream “oh the pain” on WFAN today.
————————————————————
I’d wonder how many listeners will say that about Benigno.
Should I tune in to hear Beningo or Kellerman today ?
Who cares about the headache. He brings in runs, and A-Rod would be in front of him. Plus embassdor Damon is there to keep it cool.
“The Yanks will sign one off them…”
Nah, they won’t.
The last thing the Yankees need is another corner OF/DH and there is no way they drop $180 million on an overrated 1B.
There is no CF the Yanks could get, that wouldn’t actually cost more than Manny…accepting a 10mil contract and trading good farm pitcher, for a CF when 2010 you have Jackson…
re: Manny a better fit on Yanks than Tex on Sox
I’ll say it again. If the Sox acquire Tex, they must eat 24 MILLION on Lowell and block Lars Anderson for 8 YEARS. Plus they’ll have to pay 200 million dollars for an upgrade from Lowell to Teixeira that lasts for the final 2 years of Lowell’s contract.
Yet so many fans here keep saying how ‘impossible’ or ‘improbable’ it would be for the Yankees to fit Manny.
Here are the advantages of us fitting Manny vs. the Sox fitting Tex
1) Upgrade margin: The Sox go from 2nd to 1st in runs scored with Tex over Lowell for 2 years while we rise from 7th to 2nd or 3rd in runs scored with Manny over Matsui for one year (2009) and Manny over nobody for the final 2 years of a 3 year deal to Manny.
Who makes the bigger leap?
2) Cost: The Sox must pay 200 mil to Tex while we spend 60 mill for Manny.
Advantage Yankees.
3) Roster flexibility: The Sox must tie themselves to Tex for 8 years while the Yankees would be married to Manny for only 3 years.
Advantage Yankees.
4) Sunk costs: The Sox would have to eat 24 million on Lowell to make room for Tex while we would have to eat 13 mil on Matsui in order to make room for Manny (assuming both Matsui and Lowell are equally immovable).
Advantage Yankees.
5) Prospects: By signing Tex the Sox would be blocking Lars Anderson, their best prospect while the Yankees would leave the door open at 1b for Jesus Montero if we sign Manny instead of Teixera.
I’m not saying Montero would absolutely have to move to 1b but the option would remain there.
Advantage Yankees.
6) Prince Fielder: After 3 years of Manny we would be in a better situation financially than the Sox in order to sign Prince Fielder.
Our DH/1b combination would be Fielder/Montero whereas the Sox would be far more expensive with Fielder/Teixeira. The Yankees are being more cost efficient with their duo.
Advantage Yankees.
probably made you chuckle as much as it made Cashman’s teeth grind. I don’t think the Manny/Girardi/Cashman personalities fit very well. ESPECIALLY the Manny-Girardi dynamic. I see a lot of conflicts there.
Not to mention Hideki and Damon are gone after this yr…Manny makes sense for what the Yanks are trying to accomplish…IMO
TurnTwo
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:55 am
GB, i realize you are trying to make a point, but in neither situation did Manny’s actions have any affect on his personal on the field performance in LA, nor did it lead to the demise of the Dodger team.
if anything, those stories kind of made me chuckle a little bit.
————————————————————
Oh, really? You think that Torre and the pitcher were pleased about Ramirez crawling after a ball that he misplayed and then rolled over on while base runners were scoring? Only to see him finally stand up and grinning?
“Should I tune in to hear Beningo or Kellerman today ?”
Kellerman. good G-men analysis, and beat up the Jets at the same time for being a Mets-like run franchise.
Patrick:
I agrre on the Tex thing, thats why I really think they will sign Manny..
“You think that Torre and the pitcher were pleased about Ramirez crawling after a ball that he misplayed and then rolled over on while base runners were scoring?”
im sure that Torre was pleased he finally had a power bat in the middle of that otherwise woeful lineup who could help him win some games down the stretch, yeah.
“That wouldn’t have anything to do with how well the hitters in front of him did, would it?”
GB7,
I have to say I’m suprised to see you write this after the conversation we had about the value of counting stats vs. rate stats the other day.
I thought only counting stats were the ones that mattered when assessing how good a player is? RBI’s are the quintessential counting stat. OPS, OBP, etc. is useless?
So by your argument the other day Manny would have to be better than ARod in the post season, woudn’t he?
Here you are in fact now making the main criticism of counting stats – they never take into account the number of opportunities the player is given.
Rate stats on the other hand aren’t influenced nearly as much by issues like “how well the hitters in front of him did…”
OPS would however account for this while RBI’s simply do not.
GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2008 at 9:57 am
S.A.- CC+Wang=An Awesome 1 and 2! No Manny!
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 am
I wonder how many times Joe Benigno will scream “oh the pain” on WFAN today.
——————————————————————————————
I’d wonder how many listeners will say that about Benigno.
———————————————–
Hahahahahaha
I like Benigno. The man is nuts
Bret,
Good points, but don’t get stuck on Yanks vs. sox. What really matters is who makes the Yanks good enough to win the division? Then, they must find a way to get hot in October. I felt like the Yanks had the best team in ’02, ’03, ’04, and ’06; but either they were cold in October (’06 and ’04 ), or they ran into the hot team in October (’02 and ’03).
Gus Johnson on that Jets Coles drop…he gets too excited for this type of stuff.
Cashman said not true about Manny.
“I like Benigno. The man is nuts”
i do like Beningo… isnt afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve like a true fan, and he can be very entertaining to listen to.
Beningo and Roberts, at this point, have a much more entertaining show than Francessa… same with Kellerman, who i find to have a much better show than Michael Kay.
IMHO, they should swap out the later morning shows on both sports talk networks with the afternoon drive shows.
Yankees will resign Damon.
Re: Getting hot in October
60 mil on Manny or 200 mil on Tex.
That’s the bet Mark and it’s a no brainer.
Would you believe Cash if he told you the sky was blue. Com’on man.
Bafoon, idiot (Joe relax)
“200 mil on Tex.”
Dude that’s not going to happen, they don’t even want to hit 160 on him, he’s not that good of a player. 23 million seriously what has Tex shown to be a top 3 paid player, can you imagine the market on Pujols and Berkman if this happens. They’d be wise not to.
CB
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
“That wouldn’t have anything to do with how well the hitters in front of him did, would it?”
GB7,
I have to say I’m suprised to see you write this after the conversation we had about the value of counting stats vs. rate stats the other day.
I thought only counting stats were the ones that mattered when assessing how good a player is? RBI’s are the quintessential counting stat. OPS, OBP, etc. is useless?
So by your argument the other day Manny would have to be better than ARod in the post season, woudn’t he?
Here you are in fact now making the main criticism of counting stats – they never take into account the number of opportunities the player is given.
Rate stats on the other hand aren’t influenced nearly as much by issues like “how well the hitters in front of him did…”
OPS would however account for this while RBI’s simply do not.
————————————————————
No, actually, they’re pretty close when figuring the difference in times at bat.
Rodriguez has been far from perfect, but, neither is Ramirez. I look at Rodriguez’ stretch of less than good PS numbers about the same way I look at Mantle’s from 61-63. Ugly.
As far as the “rate stats” go, I look at production…not Bill James’ “fantasy facts”. I’m just not a believer in the BS numbers that he invents to sell books. They mean absolutely zero to me. Runs produced mean more as far as I’m concerned. I’d rather have a guy that was 0-50 with 50 RBIs on ground ball outs than a guy with a 50-50 with 50 doubles and never drives in or scores a run.
Re: 200 mil for Tex
Boras is asking 195 mil and supposedly has a bid that the Sox wouldn’t even touch.
Funny how no Manny supporters answers the question of why the Yanks should eat about $10mill of Matsui’s salary in addition to paying Manny $20-25mill? Can anyone support the notion of paying $30-35mill for a DH for what would be the equivalent of a 2 win upgrade? Make no mistake, no one will help the Yankees out by taking a significant portion of his salary.
I have mentioned this before, and I will again. The biggest increase in wins the Yankees can obtain is found in CF. Upgrade the blackhole that was Melky/Gardner and you have a WS contending offense.
BTW, with re to Matsui and Manny, both are equally clutch in both the regular and postseason. The difference lies in Manny’s power advantage over Matsui. In the end, both will get the job done.
Bret,
I would tend to agree, if that is the choice. I certainly wouldn’t like to see 8 years committed to Tex. We just got out from under Giambi’s dead weight, wouldn’t want take that risk of Tex suddenly declining. He probably won’t, because I don’t believe he is using PEDs, but it is still likey that at those numbers he would be overpaid for the entire length of the deal. Overpaid=inflexibility
than a guy with a 25-50 with 25 doubles
LOL
Benigno screaming in pain
Interesting Q&A in yesterday’s POTY Blog with Dan Graziano:
“POTY Blog, Q: Do you think the Yankees can win the AL East as currently composed? Why or why not?
Dan, A: I think they can. Their starting rotation is obviously outstanding, provided Burnett stays healthy, and they’ll bring back what was a very strong bullpen in 2008. I do think they need another bat, though. They have some nice hitters in the lineup, but they could use another big-time power threat to pair with A-Rod in the middle. There are people in the organization who worry about this, which is why the Manny talk is not just rumor — there really is a push by some members of the organization to pursue him. If they were to get a hitter like that, I think you might have to make them the favorites in the AL East. Without him, they’re a strong contender for the division title along with Boston and Tampa Bay.
Q: What, if anything, would you recommend the Yankees do to complete their offseason makeover?
A: Whoops. I think I answered that one already. They need one more starting pitcher, but I don’t have any reason to believe they won’t eventually sign Pettitte. They need a center fielder, but I think the Mike Cameron discussion is one they can and may go back to. Or they could sign a cheap free agent like a Mark Kotsay or somebody like that, just so they don’t have to rely on Gardner and Cabrera. (They’re looking for somebody to play it for one year, thinking Austin Jackson may be ready in 2010). And as I mentioned earlier, I’d look for a way to add some punch to the middle of the lineup. Just not sure you can count on Posada or Matsui or Swisher to provide any reasonable protection for A-Rod.”
“Can anyone support the notion of paying $30-35mill for a DH for what would be the equivalent of a 2 win upgrade?”
healthy manny > gimpy matsui.
and two wins was the differnece between the yankees and the playoffs this year right? or just about?
i bet the yankees would have paid that for all the playoff revenue they would have then been entitled to make.
I’d need liquor if I was a Jets fan listening to WFAN right now.
“Bro ..I hate this team” – J.Beningo
Re: Ty – NYY fan Lohud poster
An answer to your question upthread:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-623421
Manny isn’t as bad as his reputation. The Sox front office had been trying to deal him since they bought the team and their M.O. is to burn the guy on the way out of town so that the Cult doesn’t completely freak out.
The key with Manny is that he is his own dude, Boras had a job to do get him out of Boston and likely get him to NYY. Which is were he asked to be traded all the time.
Another not small issue is that the Yanks could use some nice PR in the Bronx with the new ball park and with Manny in town their will be parades in the streets.
Antics and all the guy is one of the few hitters in the game that is actually better than his numbers show, the guy is a true beast at the plate.
Based on his age, why the heck is Beningo a Jets fan anyway? Most football fans in his age range that grew up in the Metro area are Giants fans.
Sully
Antics and all the guy is one of the few hitters in the game that is actually better than his numbers show, the guy is a true beast at the plate.
————————————————————
A beast at the plate and a dog everywhere else. No thanks. amazingly, people can overlook his BS and thinks it’s funy, but, want Cano gone for doing a 100 times less transgressions.
Sully,
Right on point. Excellent.
Berkman would be comparable to Teixiera. His numbers are similar with Berkman having better stats (OPS .973 vs .919, OPS+ 148 vs 134). Both are excellent defensively, but Tex is four years younger so he would warrant a better contract.
Pujols is off the charts and might be the first to sign a contract for over $ 30 million a year.
Bret,
A comparison of savings (Boston/Yankees) does not quite answer my question. Do you truly believe that Manny is worth $30-35mill for 2009 in addition to another $40-50mill two years thereafter? All of this money for a possible 2 win upgrade in 2009. I am a fan of Manny’s hitting prowess, but I can’t agree with upgrading an already strong position while compromising CF. Any upgrade that Manny brings would be negated by that gaping whole in the nine spot.
when I saw Manny auctioning off his BBQ Grill for over 25,000.00 — that’s when my opinion of him changed.
and no, it’s no just because he takes his grilling seriously.
i have no idea where manny is going to end up, but one thing i’m pretty sure of is that he’ll end up putting up much better offensive numbers than almost all of the “good citizen”players out there who are perceived to be good team players.
manny will be in more playoff series than players perceived as boy scouts like girardi ( who was in his fair share of playoffs).
in other words , manny will likely beat the boy scouts wherever he goes because he is simply a better baseball player. if a team like the yankee is run by people who aren’t tough enough to deal with a non boy scout who can play the game, then they will likely be beat by the team who can that signs manny.
“and two wins was the differnece between the yankees and the playoffs this year right? or just about?”
Even if you take into account how inordinately high the yankees are up on the marginal wins/revenue curve, a 2 win upgrade in performance is nowhere even close to being worth $30-35M. It’s not even in the ball park.
A two win upgrade is worth roughly $10-11M.
So even if Matsui was hurt and Manny turned out to be a full 4 games better than whoever the yankees would replace Matsui with – he still wouldn’t come close to being worth 30-35M.
You can make any number of arguments for Manny but economics is not one of them.
He will be extraordinarily expensive if the yankees have to eat any significant proportion of Matsui’s contract.
l
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:32 am
i have no idea where manny is going to end up, but one thing i’m pretty sure of is that he’ll end up putting up much better offensive numbers than almost all of the “good citizen”players out there who are perceived to be good team players.
manny will be in more playoff series than players perceived as boy scouts like girardi ( who was in his fair share of playoffs).
in other words , manny will likely beat the boy scouts wherever he goes because he is simply a better baseball player. if a team like the yankee is run by people who aren’t tough enough to deal with a non boy scout who can play the game, then they will likely be beat by the team who can that signs manny.
————————————————————
Ramirez is a better hitter. He’s not a better ball player.
The Hit Man has made some very telling points about the Manny/Tex deals for the Yanks/Sox at 9:59. So has TurnTwo and others before that.
Look, I understand the valid objections that guys like Viper and GB are making. The risks are real. The potential problems accomodating or moving Matsui are real and the defensive situation in the OF deserves careful consideration. So, I don’t know if those points can be adequately addressed, though I must admit being greatly attracted about the Manny option.
However,as far as fitting in goes (and GB is correct of course about the incidents he’s cited), go back to the post I made the other day. Dock Ellis came over to the Yanks with one of the worst trouble-maker reps in the Big Leagues. Everyone and his brother’s uncle was waiting for the fireworks between him and Billy Martin. So what happens? He and Billy hit it off famously and Dock has one of the best years of his career.
Manny wanted out of Boston in the worse way. Some of actions were certainly inexcusable but it doesn’t mean that in a new environment his ‘act’ won’t quiet down a bit. He’ll now be where I think he’s always wanted to be.
Besides the Bronx Zoo period was one of my favorite Yankee eras! If he helps the Yanks win while lightening things up a bit, I can’t see that as a bad thing. Lots of folks in the sport have commented on how dispassionate the Yanks have often looked in the recent past. Maybe Manny’s antics (if they’re a bit muted!) will help light a fire under the team.
OK, GB and Viper will now blow that argument out of the water. I still think it would be worth the risk if the other issues can be resolved – no easy thing I admit.
“when I saw Manny auctioning off his BBQ Grill for over 25,000.00—that’s when my opinion of him changed.”
Wasn’t even his grill. Was his neighbors. Manny was doing the guy a favor.
“amazingly, people can overlook his BS and thinks it’s funy, but, want Cano gone for doing a 100 times less transgressions.”
because Cano screwed off, and was a non-factor for the team for 2/3rds of the season, and thats giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Re: Manny’s contract figures
Ty,
You’re assuming as much as 85 million for 3 years on Manny when the top offer so far is 40 million less and minus 1 year. Quite a leap.
And to answer your question, I think Manny is worth 20 mil over 3 years and I consider the 13 mil sunk cost of Matsui less damaging than the 24 mil sunk cost for the Sox on Lowell.
I also consider Matsui more movable than Lowell because Matsui’s owed significantly less money and minus 1 year.
The notion that we would have to eat 13 million to move Matsui doesn’t sit with me. I say he’s movable at 8-9 million per year which means we have to eat 4-5 million.
You have to keep in mind that Matsui is only contracted for 1 more year which means the Yankees will need to replace him anyway. Manny is better than any hitter on the market after Matsui’s final year in 2009 but he’s available now.
CB,
Right on the money re Manny not being worth $30-35mill. Furthermore, you analysis doesn’t even take into account the possible antics that may occur if the Yankees were to acquire Manny below his perceived market value.
We can still afford Manny and not trade Matsui. Matsui can be like Strawberry in 98 off the bench. Or he can take some time in RF and use Nady on the bench. We have options and money.
“He will be extraordinarily expensive if the yankees have to eat any significant proportion of Matsui’s contract.”
and the Yankees can afford it.
TurnTwo
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
“amazingly, people can overlook his BS and thinks it’s funy, but, want Cano gone for doing a 100 times less transgressions.”
because Cano screwed off, and was a non-factor for the team for 2/3rds of the season, and thats giving him the benefit of the doubt.
————————————————————
Cano hit .300 from May 1st until the end of the year, hitting at the bottom of the lineup. I’d hardly call that screwing off. The only one in that lineup that had normal his numbers was Johnny Damon. Cano is never going to walk at the rate you desire…but, guess what…neither did Mattingly, neither does Jeter. Nobody on this team walked at their normal rate last year.
Re: The cost of Manny vs. the reward
Manny on the Yankees generates more dollars in marketing and TV contracts than his cost over Matsui. Showcasing Manny on YES Network will ignite the rivalary and send ratings for Yanks/Red Sox games into the stratosphere.
I would call Manny extraordinarly rewarding before I called him extraordinarly expensive.
The top offer is 2 years 45 mil and he WANTS to be a Yankee.
He’s ours for 3 years 60 mil.
The Yanks have already upgraded by far more than 2 games, just by getting AJ Burnett and Daniel Cabrera off of teams that they face 19 times per year. Now, if they could just convince the Blue Jays to trade Halladay to the Astros…or to us.
“Cano is never going to walk at the rate you desire…but, guess what…neither did Mattingly, neither does Jeter. Nobody on this team walked at their normal rate last year.”
that i desire? i never expected Cano to walk 100 times a year. i recognize the innate difference between patient hitters and free swingers, and Cano is definitely a free swinger.
he hit .246 and slugged .358 for the first half of the season. thats MIA, especially considering how much the Yankees were depending on him or expecting from him for production.
ho hum wake me up when somebody makes up thier freakin mind. boras will stretch out the manny sweepstakes for as long as he’s stretched out the tex sweepstakes.
looks now unlikely that tex signs before christmas, manny wont even heat up till after new years, so we’re looking at probably 3 more weeks of this crap. i like the hot stove, but this is ridiculous. and at least so far, it hasnt gained tex any more money, might’ve even cost him some.
ill be watching the nfl, wake me up when something happens.
No manny pleeze pleeeze pleeze no manny pleeeze no pleeze!
Seriously, I will boo him even if he hits a HR.
Someone asked if he hit a game 7 world series walk-off, would I cheer for him then? If he does, I absolutely won’t cheer for him. If he actually did do that then maybe I wouldn’t boo him, but I’ll make a point not to cheer him if it did happen. After the game I’d be happy the team won but I’d still say (and firmly believe) that I wish he wasn’t on the team. I’ll be happy the team won, don’t get me wrong, but I’ll still wish he wasn’t on the team and there was another guy at the plate.
It’d all be sematics but come whatever may, I’d live with the results with whoever is there instead of Manny. I’ll let all y’all Manny fans b*tch & moan that Manny could have been there to hit a HR every time someone else doesn’t get a hit. Condsidering the average professional hitter’s batting average is in the low .260′s that means you’ll be doing it almost 3/4 of the time anyways. Go ahead, kill yourselves. I’d be at peace with it.
You don’t have to be Manny Remirez to hit a walk-off HR in a playoff series. Aaron Bleepin’ Boone did it in the ALCS, right? And what kind of power did he have? Just enough at the given moment.
BUT: Considering there have only been 2 walk-off HRs in WS history, and almost as few walk off hits of any sort, odds are there won’t be an opportunity for any guy on the team to have a walk-off in the 3 years he’d supposedly be here. So … I’ll take the odds I wont even be in a position to restrain myself. Highly unlikely there’ll even be the chance.
“He’s ours for 3 years 60 mil”
NYY will say no to 3/60mil. And pay him 3/75mil.
“Ramirez is a better hitter. He’s not a better ball player.”
gb7-
on the playing field manny beats the guys i think you are calling ball players. you can try to dismiss this, but the fact is manny can play the game. he will beat the boy scouts.
he’s done it his whole career and is showing no signs of slowing down at the plate. whoever signs manny will likely be in the playoffs.
“ill be watching the nfl, wake me up when something happens.”
ha!! fair point. i’m almost with you on that.
“and the Yankees can afford it.”
Turn Two,
It’s odd how dogmatic you often are on your points – whether its Manny is a god or Jake Peavy is a must. You will not admit any other point of view.
And in this instance you are simply changing the argument.
First off – whether the yankees can “afford it” was not even the issue that was being discussed. That’s an issue of total revenue.
So that’s just a straw man – off course they can afford it.
The issue being discussed was whether or not the marginal 30-35M Manny will cost will be a reasonable economic value.
This is what you said yourself in your last post:
“and two wins was the differnece between the yankees and the playoffs this year right? or just about?
i bet the yankees would have paid that for all the playoff revenue they would have then been entitled to make.”
So first off you were completely innaccurate – the yankees were not 2 games off the playoffs this year.
They were 6 games out of the playoffs. That is an enormous difference. So you aren’t even in the ball park with 2 games.
Second you were suggesting that a two win upgrade would have been worth it as the yankees would have recouped it in additional revenue.
Well that’s simply not the case. 2 wins are not worth 30-35M, particularly when you were 6 games out of the playoffs to begin with.
17.5M per win is ridiculous. No team – not even the yankees would think that’s efficient in any way.
So there is almost no economic argument you can contort that suggests Manny makes financial sense if they have to eat matsui’s contract for this year.
There’s plenty of good reason for the team to acquire Manny. But in trying to frame him as some ideal acquisition who seems like an open and shut case you are hurting your argument.
It’s not persuasive in the least.
Yankee fans boo A-Rod but they wouldn’t boo Manny? Nick what’s the over under on Manny giving the new Yankee stadium crowd the finger and leaving a game during the 5th inning after a strikeout?
whoever signs manny will be paying $20-something million per year to watch his game deteriorate.
Bret,
Even if Manny were to accept a two year offer, it would at least have to be the equivalent of the Dodgers’ initial bid if not a bit more. No team will help the Yankees out salary wise as was made quite clear by the Cameron negotiations. In order for the Yankees to move Matsui, they would have to take on another teams contract which will undoubtedly be a least a year longer than Matsui’s. As Matsui is a DH at this point, his only resting place is in the AL. The majority of those teams that can afford him don’t need him. Seattle would never play Matsui and Ichiro on the same field as they are not friends at all and Matsui would rob Ichiro of some of his attention. Matsui was the biggest name in Japan afterall. Therefore the only way we could get Seattle to take him is by swapping contracts which would fill a CF need for the Yankees and a power need for the Mariners. Unfortunately, Ichiro’s contract is onerous to say the least. Sorry Bret, but imo, Manny just isn’t worth all of the fuss and expense that it would take to acquire him.
Finally, somebody in the media has a little bit more figured out than some fans and other media hacks.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp
It appears that the only one that thinks the Yanks may offer him a 3 year/$75 mil contract.
***Though members of the organization are said to be split on adding the Washington Heights product, there is interest. The New York Daily News reported Sunday that Ramirez has told friends that he is confident the Yankees will offer him a contract of at least three years.***
***The report noted that Ramirez has no plans to get serious about any offers until after first baseman Mark Teixeira — like Ramirez, a Scott Boras client — makes a decision about his own future.***
Of course, he’d be injured.
“ill be watching the nfl, wake me up when something happens.”
the nfl puts me to sleep too .
baseball is a much better game : )
Re: Using Manny as a weapon against Red Sox Nation
Boggs, Clemens, Damon, Manny
Is it just me or does Manny on the Yankees bug me far less than the others EVER did?
I mean, I still hate Clemens.
Damon I just started liking in 2008.
But the thought of signing Manny and using him as a weapon against the Sox?
For some reason that just seems so much more devestating to their fans than having to watch Boggs ride around on the horse after 1996 or Clemens final getting his ring.
Unlike the others, Manny DID win in Boston and WILL have Red Sox rings in his pocket when/if he joins the Yankees.
And those 2 rings will be completely irrelevant when Manny’s launching pitches off the likes of Wakes, Lester and Papelbon.
signing manny now is alot like the mets signing of pedro. he will give you less and less each season for however many years you sign him.
“Seriously, I will boo him even if he hits a HR.”
Then you are a fan of players, not a fan of a team. I’d like to believe that a fan of a team doesn’t boo at all but being realistic, a fan of a team doesn’t boo something that benefits the team.
randy l
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:50 am
“Ramirez is a better hitter. He’s not a better ball player.”
gb7-
on the playing field manny beats the guys i think you are calling ball players. you can try to dismiss this, but the fact is manny can play the game. he will beat the boy scouts.
he’s done it his whole career and is showing no signs of slowing down at the plate. whoever signs manny will likely be in the playoffs.
————————————————————
You can waste your time away drooling and dreaming about Ramirez and Hernandez, if you want. I have better things to think about.
“I’d like to believe that a fan of a team doesn’t boo at all but being realistic, a fan of a team doesn’t boo something that benefits the team.”
Tell that to Stephon Marbury
The mere thought of Manny soiling the Pinstripes makes me want to puke, no matter how great a hitter he is. NY Fans demand a player put out all the time and will not tolerate Manny nor will Giradi or Jeter. This can not happen.
Brandon
That was just the Isaiah hangover talking.
“It’s odd how dogmatic you often are on your points – whether its Manny is a god or Jake Peavy is a must. You will not admit any other point of view.”
ok, so first, i never said Manny was a god, nor did i say that Peavy was a must.
i actually said i could care less about Manny either way, whether they get him or not… but that my arguiment all along has been that people who think signing Manny = the total demise and blowup of the Yankees organization are being absurd. yes, there is always risk in bringing in a new FA, but you have to compare the risk with the potential reward. ive maintained that i’ll take the potential risk of Manny on this team knowing the reward that can be there at the end of the season.
and yeah, im an advocate for Peavy considering the circumstances around the upgrade to the rotation. Peavy is what Hughes hopes to become, only he’s already that good.
and i also said that Peavy was a more reasonable target for me than Burnett; that id rather Peavy than Burnett. still would.
but a must? you’re putting words in my mouth.
—–
“So first off you were completely innaccurate – the yankees were not 2 games off the playoffs this year. ”
however many games they were back, the overall point was that any improvement is improvement, and movement towards the ultimate goal, which is the playoffs, and then the WS.
any improvement Manny makes to the odds of the Yankees potentially winning the WS is a good thing for Yankees fans.
and you add the improvement that Manny projects, with the projections of Sabathia and Burnett, and there are your 6 wins, or whatever the Yankees needed from last year. there you go.
“Second you were suggesting that a two win upgrade would have been worth it as the yankees would have recouped it in additional revenue.
Well that’s simply not the case.”
if they made the playoffs, how much revenue do they make per game? serious question, i dont have the numbers.
i would bet if they made a WS run, with X amount of home games, with tickets, concessions, merchanise, etc, itd be awfully close.
and besides, the goal is to win. the Steinbrenners have shown that they’ll take a hit and spend the money to invest into the team if it brings the ultimate glory.
i love how yankees fans want to pinch the Steinbrenners pennies. i never get that.
Write it down, Texiera will be in a Red Sox uniform next year. Guarenteed.
Embarrassing:
“The Yankees scored only seven more runs than the Orioles in 2008. The Yankees scored 789 runs, 10th best in the majors and 179 runs less than 2007 when they led the majors in that category”
*slaps his head
“Brandon
That was just the Isaiah hangover talking.”
Either that or the “Get In The Truck” juice talking
I still think the best course of action is to:
1. Resign Pettitte.
2. Upgrade Center Field.
3. Upgrade the bench.
Lost in Tex-is
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
Embarrassing:
“The Yankees scored only seven more runs than the Orioles in 2008. The Yankees scored 789 runs, 10th best in the majors and 179 runs less than 2007 when they led the majors in that category”
*slaps his head
————————————————————
That’s what happens when a team loses the middle of their batting order and replaces it with bench players like Molina an a cast of thousands. Losing those two affected the production of the entire lineup.
Tom
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
I still think the best course of action is to:
1. Resign Pettitte.
2. Upgrade Center Field.
3. Upgrade the bench.
————————————————————
The bench is and was adequate…as long as they are depended on to play for 120 games.
Re: Manny for 3 years/60 mil
Ty,
Bret,
“Even if Manny were to accept a two year offer, it would at least have to be the equivalent of the Dodgers’ initial bid if not a bit more.”
I agree, but since the Dodgers are an NL team and thus highly unlikely to lock him up for 3 years in LF, the Yankees can lower the annual cost by giving him the 3rd year and making him a DH.
“In order for the Yankees to move Matsui, they would have to take on another teams contract which will undoubtedly be a least a year longer than Matsui’s.”
What? Matsui is movable at 8-9 mil per. 1 year of Matsui for 8-9 is reasonable.
“Unfortunately, Ichiro’s contract is onerous to say the least.”
This is a whole separate issue from Manny but I will address it anyways because I actually feel Ichiro makes a little more sense than Manny.
Both Manny and Ichiro are religious about conditioning and taking care of their bodies.
Ichiro is 35. He’ll be 38 throughout the final year of his contract and just about turning 39. That’s on par with Manny assuming Manny gets a 3 year deal now.
Ichiro hit .310 in 2008 compared to .331 for his career.
He swiped 40+ bases and was caught only 4 times.
He still plays gold glove caliber defense.
Ichiro represents a significant upgrade over Melky/Gardner in CF and is versatile.
He can play CF in 2008 and shift to LF when Jackson is ready.
Ichiro can leadoff after 2009 when Damon is gone and for the following 2 or 3 years it will take for Jackson to develop into a leadoff hitter.
Ichiro batting leadoff for 2-3 years also buys time for the Yankees to trade or sign a leadoff hitter other than Ichiro or Jackson.
Here’s where I think Ichiro makes more sense.
1) The Yankees would not have to move Matsui as they would with Manny.
2) Ichiro will earn 17 mil per for the duration of his contract compared with Manny at 20-25 mil per.
Here are the reasons why Ichiro isn’t a slam dunk
1) Mariners might be unwilling to trade him as he is the centerpiece of their marketing scheme. If they do decide to trade him, they will want a significant amount of talent in return.
2) Yankees would have to manage with Matsui and Posada hitting around Arod in 2009.
3) Without Manny the Yankees would have to spend big on a big bat after 2009. For example, they would have to sign Holliday to a Tex-like contract or trade a significant amount of talent in return for Prince Fielder.
GreenBeret7:
I agree, and that’s why adding Manny, with a healthy Posada and Hideki…would make this offense phenominal..
“The Yankees scored only seven more runs than the Orioles in 2008. The Yankees scored 789 runs, 10th best in the majors and 179 runs less than 2007 when they led the majors in that category”
Who cares. They only need to score 1 more than the team they are playing that day. All the rest is just window dressing.
CORRECTION: as long as they ***aren’t*** depended
“i actually said i could care less about Manny either way, whether they get him or not… but that my arguiment all along has been that people who think signing Manny = the total demise and blowup of the Yankees organization are being absurd.”
But that wasn’t the conversation at all. The conversation I was referring to was his economic value and whether that was likely to be 30-35M. It had nothing to do with this at all.
So when you come back and ignore the economic arguments and facts and glibly say “the yankees can afford it” yes it makes it seems as if Manny is unquestionably the all around perfect acquisition.
“If they made the playoffs, how much revenue do they make per game? serious question, i dont have the numbers.
i would bet if they made a WS run, with X amount of home games, with tickets, concessions, merchanise, etc, itd be awfully close.”
Then you would be wrong. This is not how the value a player brings in terms of performance is translated into economic value.
The yankees pay by far the most money to acquire each additional marginal win to their team.
They won 89 games last year and are in a competitive division. So picking up games is very worth it to the yankees as they are so close to the playoffs.
But even being that close each additional win is worth $5.5M. That’s it.
That’s the best and most accurate estimate out there.
So to say that well Manny is actually worth 17.5M per win is ludicrous. It’s absurd.
There are so many other ways the yankees could pick up two wins that would be less costly.
Again this isn’t an argument not to get Manny.
It’s simply an argument to say that though the yankees can afford him he is unlikely to recoup his costs in terms of revenue generation.
And it’s not even really his salary per se – it really has to do with the fact that if they have to trade matsui or bench him Manny will cost an additional $13M.
No player outside of pujols could make eating that kind of salary while getting paid 25M “worth it.”
Manny by himself is roughly worth 22-25M. But when you add in Matsui’s money the deal simply stops making one to one economic sense.
The economic argument here is very weak. Manny’s marginal addition will not be worth 30-35M money compared to the wins that Matsui would bring – it’s not even in the realm of being close.
The only player who could make the economics of replacing matsui and eating his contract work is Pujols and that’s because the value he creates both with his bat and with his glove.
the yankees nee a whole new mindset. no more, ‘somebody will bail us out with a late homer’ and more about cashing in on opportunities and capitalizing on the other guys’ mistakes.
that kind of mentality marked the 97-00 teams. with runners on 1st and 3rd, those guys would drive in the runner from 3rd with a sac fly then tack on two more with consecutive doubles. they had an uncanny knack for turning someone’s bobbled relay throw into a 3 run homerless rally.
we need these guys to play more games like that. sometimes i wonder if having all those studs in the lineup causes you to lose that killer instinct.
Tim Clougher
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
GreenBeret7:
I agree, and that’s why adding Manny, with a healthy Posada and Hideki…would make this offense phenominal
————————————————————
All things given, I gotta believe that NYY needs a first baseman more than another DH…even if it’s Ramirez. Another CF may help, but, with an addition of a bat and glove like Teixeira makes adding a CF like Cameron or Kotsay (for example) less of need.
“yes it makes it seems as if Manny is unquestionably the all around perfect acquisition.”
if you want to read into it, then thats on you.
all i said was that the yankees can afford it. and they can.
—–
“The economic argument here is very weak.”
then its a good thing i’m not basing my position of acquiring Manny based on economics, right?
I find th money issue interesting, but IMO Manny makes sense for the transition..I say trade no-one…let Damon and Hideki go after 09….then Manny can be a DH…Manny makes the most sense because your not giving up talent for him..your giving up money which is the best Yankee resource..
Im under the impression we should seriously just get Manny out of our minds. It ain’t happening…
GreenBeret7:
I agree with you, I just feel the Yanks go after Tex cause of contract length and such…I really think Swisher will play 1st…Manny would help threw a transition period, yes I know he has more bagagge than a loaded C-5, sorry retired Air Force, but to me he is worth the risk….
sorry won’t go after
“Then you would be wrong. This is not how the value a player brings in terms of performance is translated into economic value.”
so then educate me. i’m open to learning… ill admit, i hate economics, and i dont care for number crunching. not my thing, glad there are other people out there to do it and like to do it, because it keeps me from having to do it.
but that doesnt mean i’ll argue just to argue… you stop learning, you stop living.
but for the sake of this discussion, all i was looking for before was the number in dollars of how much the Yankees make per playoff home game. id be interested to see some sort of estimate of that.
and what kind of spike in revenue correlates to the franchise bottom line after the WS win, or a deep run into the playoffs.
“then its a good thing i’m not basing my position of acquiring Manny based on economics, right?”
That was your initial argument. That’s how this whole thread started.
You asserted that Manny would be worth 30-35M. That’s factually inaccurate.
But instead of admitting that this is a issue with acquiring Manny you continue to change the subject to glib statements like,
“i love how yankees fans want to pinch the Steinbrenners pennies. i never get that.”
When no one made any kind of comment like that to begin with.
Manny is very unlikely to generate even close to 30-35M in revenue. That’s a fact.
My original post wasn’t even aimed at pointing out you were wrong – I was just trying to add to provide some objective information in weighing Manny’s pluses and minuses.
GreenBeret7:
If they did get Tex I would love that…just really not sure which way they are thinking, I’m sure they are looking at the pluses for one or the other…I have just said all along get 1 of them, Tex is the 1st option…but hell I would love them either way with 1,2 or none of them..
signing manny or dunn blows up everything cash has tried to do with this team since last year. and outfield containing either of them (or matsui) in LF and/or damon in cf is unacceptable. trading matsui would be ridiculously expensive. keep everybody and you’re way over budget and paying a bench player at least $13M.
i think the yankees are in on manny and tex only as long as it keeps people tuning in to yes until they sign elsewhere.
Hey were fans I respect everyone’s opion’s on here..were fans this is a blog, I guess I would get fired day one as there GM, because I would signed both Tex and Manny and gave the finger to Boston..:)
“My original post wasn’t even aimed at pointing out you were wrong – I was just trying to add to provide some objective information in weighing Manny’s pluses and minuses.”
gotcha. its good to have someone who knows this type of stuff around.
“Manny is very unlikely to generate even close to 30-35M in revenue. That’s a fact.”
i dont think ive ever asserted that Manny himself is worth $30-35 million in revenue on his own merit.
my point was that the Yankees, as an organization, would raise revenue based on the the success of the team that would make up for the overrun on costs thru playoff revenue, and the additional money they’d make there… not just because Manny himself equals a revenue spike because he’s on the team.
there are other sorts of examples of this, or maybe that kind of relate to this… do you really think the Mets should spend $25 million on a closer this year?
well, they’ve got like $13 million invested in Billy Wagner and now they’ve got like $12 million invested on KRod, too.
no chance they get $25 million worth of value out of the one position like that.
but they’ll eat the individual loss in cash for one year for the overall goal of boosting the bullpen, and securing wins that get them into the postseason.
first post, long time read. Think back did Cash not say he was going to have a 1st baseman play 1st?
heere are Swish games started. LF=98, CF=125, RF=175
1st=181 So what makes him a 1st baseman? Not to say he isn’t but those starts say he can play them all. Does that not leave a spot for Teix?
Tim Clougher
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
GreenBeret7:
If they did get Tex I would love that…just really not sure which way they are thinking, I’m sure they are looking at the pluses for one or the other…I have just said all along get 1 of them, Tex is the 1st option…but hell I would love them either way with 1,2 or none of them..
————————————————————
The way I see it, Boras will ask for an OPT-OUT after four years anyway. I don’t remember if any player has NOT exercised an OPT-OUT, so, he probably would. Depending on what’s available and what NYY has in the system to replace him, as to how much losing him would hurt. If he did, it would be one year after Sabathia, so NYY would have to deal with two losses in one year.
I agree with you since the Mick. Teix at 1st allows Swish to play either CF or RF. You would trade Nady in a package for a CF if you put Swish in right imo.
i’m happy that I didnt have to watch the Jets choke on Tv as I don’t get their games
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....l#comments
Manny might be a Yankee! In your faces people that didn’t want him. I hope that this is true even though it probably isn’t because Impacto is only right about 50% of the time and it’s not a Boras type signing.
The difference with Manny’s situation and Tex’s situation is being up front.
We know Manny, we know what he is, what he will do, and that he will be a headcase. But he has never said he was anything different, and has been perfectly honest about his intentions.
Tex: a Diva who is claiming east coast bias, one day wants boston, next wants NY, says he wants to go to Anaheim but then maybe not. Even leaving the door open for the Nationals. He really has an inflated view of how good he is, where Manny can back up his arrogance with championships.
We do need a 1B, but we have guys in the minors who are being prepared, plus Posada who no matter how much says he wants to catch, may have no choice but to get relegated to first base.
“miked860 ”
got any fresh news on the attack on pearl harbor?
Rob NY
We thinkin along the same lines, Nady is OK but dont see all that others do there. Find a fit for positional prospects. Opens up the OF jam, then we worry more about that in winter of 09.
jumpin smoker:
LMAF
Sorry LMAO
“You can waste your time away drooling and dreaming about Ramirez and Hernandez, if you want. I have better things to think about.”
why do i think ramirez and hernandez have more rings than the players who you think are real players?
you talked about graig nettles earlier. nettles was a very tough guy. just like ramirez and hernandez are. nettles would have had no problem playing with ramirez and hernandez because they can play the game.he might not like them, but so what. he’d win with them.
you seem to equate people that you don’t like with being bad players and also think they aren’t winners. billy martin once said something to the effect that he’d bat mussolini clean up if he could hit. i would have thought a tough guy like you would have been in agreement with that philosophy.
Randy I,,,the baseball guy in you explained that very clearly
“Lining up to turn down Tex”
Over-rated!
I didn’t say he isn’t a good player. I just think he is overrated. So, I guess, do a lot of major league teams.
Neyer weighs in:
“MLB Trade Rumors points to a report in a Dominican Newspaper that says Manny Ramirez is about to sign with the Yankees for three years and $75 million. Tim Dierkes doesn’t think the money and the years seem quite right, and he knows more about this stuff than I do … but what’s wrong with three years and $75 million? A (nearly) 37-year-old left fielder who’s going to be a DH soon if not immediately? Seems like a pretty fair deal to me. More than fair, actually (which means the Yankees are perfect”
Manny Ramirez is a great hitter and a fair outfielder. I have heard that his work ethic is good. However, there are certain things about him that are unprofessional. Not showing up to spring training with the rest of the team is unprofessional. Would Graig Nettles or any of the other “tough guys” do that? Would they selectively quit on their team in order to break a contract? I would think a guy like Nettles would be quite intolerant of a teammate who thought there were team rules and then the rules for that particular player.
I don’t object to guys who are tough or different or whatever word you want to use to describe the “un-Jeter,” for lack of a better word. What I do object to is unprofessional behavior. And I wouldn’t single out Manny. There are others, and there have been others, even, probably wearing the sacred pinstripes. If I had my druthers, I’d druther not have to deal with a “Manny.” I’m not sure the Yankees HAVE TO have Manny, and that’s the only case in which I’d think it would be almost worth the baggage.
This is Boras Christmas wish. That Texiera signs with Boston for a record deal, and the Yankees, not to be outdone, sign Manny to a lucrative deal.
Doreen, Trisha:
I like your points, and I know you know mine in spite of manny having a tracktor trailer load of baggage,IMO he would be worth the risk…
Have any of you participated in the Stadium relocation process as yet? Anyone know whether they still have seats in Sections 217, 216 and 215 or Sections 223, 224, 225.
3 years is too many for Manny. Id go 2 or go 7 at 25 for Tex if that money is burning a whole in the Steins pockets. Which i still think 7 is much. Its pick your poison.
randy l
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“You can waste your time away drooling and dreaming about Ramirez and Hernandez, if you want. I have better things to think about.”
why do i think ramirez and hernandez have more rings than the players who you think are real players?
you talked about graig nettles earlier. nettles was a very tough guy. just like ramirez and hernandez are. nettles would have had no problem playing with ramirez and hernandez because they can play the game.he might not like them, but so what. he’d win with them.
you seem to equate people that you don’t like with being bad players and also think they aren’t winners. billy martin once said something to the effect that he’d bat mussolini clean up if he could hit. i would have thought a tough guy like you would have been in agreement with that philosophy.
————————————————————
If his talent meant so much to his team, why did a manager, coaching staff and 24 players go to the front office to get rid him?
Tim –
I do understand the attraction to Manny. No one can argue his value as an offensive force. But there are valid, non-emotional, non-hate-filled reasons to not want him.
So, we will all wait and see how this unfolds. It will be interesting either way. I really didn’t think there would be all this drama this off-season. Boy, was I wrong!
Randy I
correction: If his talent meant so much to his team, why did a manager, coaching staff and 24 players go to the front office to get rid of him? ***Mind you, this was a team in the middle of a pennent race. It quite possibly cost Boston a WS title.***
Doreen:
Yes it’s very interesting, I had no idea the Hot stove would be this exciting this off-season..man I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the Yanks meetings…:)
new post >
More giggles and snickers from Scott Boras, courtesy of MLB-Rumors-R-Us.com
By Tim Dierkes [December 22 at 12:02pm CST]
12:02pm: Boras gave a prepared statement regarding the Angels and Tex, saying that the player’s interest has been sincere.
” I would think a guy like Nettles would be quite intolerant of a teammate who thought there were team rules and then the rules for that particular player.
I don’t object to guys who are tough or different or whatever word you want to use to describe the “un-Jeter,” for lack of a better word”
doreen-
in addition to being a tough guy, nettles also has a pretty good sense of humor. i’m sure there’d be things that he wouldn’t like about manny, but i also think he’d have respect for how good he is and would have no trouble playing with him . do you think nettles didn’t find mickey rivers amusing? i’m sure he didn’t like everything he did either. he liked winning with him though.
and jeter is a tough guy in my book. have you noticed how jeter gets along well with guys like ponson and still shows up at events with clemens like the texas football game a month or so ago? jeter isn’t all about playing with choir boys. he’s all about winning. the one player he couldn’t stand was chad curtis who was the boy scout type.
that doesn’t mean jeter is going to act up himself, but he recognizes players that play the game hard. i think you’d see jeter welcome manny into the clubhouse and on the field.
the more i think about it, i think manny is the right player at the right time for the yankees.
i can see him being a dh force well into his early 40′s. yes, there’s a problem with matsui and damon this year, but that’s one year. injuries have a way of solving the problem of too many good players, so an overload for one year is not the worst thing that can happen. i agree it’d be expensive for the first year.
but no team will want to face arod and manny back to back especially in the playoffs and that’s where they’ll be if they sign manny.
… happy holidays doreen.
kill-schill(ing)
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Have any of you participated in the Stadium relocation process as yet? Anyone know whether they still have seats in Sections 217, 216 and 215 or Sections 223, 224, 225.
HIGHLY DOUBT IT. Full season-ticket holders were being pushed out to 228, 229 last week.
randy l,
Do you remember when Nettles and Reggie went at it? Lol.
My concern w/Manny has nothing to do with all of this over-think, but moreso on where we actually put him. He can’t play left. We could try to sneak him in and out of right, I suppose, but the real win-win is if he just is a DH. Then, of course, we run into a numbers problem.
I’d still sign this guy, however. A short-term (relatively speaking) deal is fine. I wouldn’t go past 3 years on this.
By the time A-Rod reaches Manny’s age in 3 years, he too will need to see time as an occasional DH.
A-Rod will still have 6 years remaining on his contract and will see it as necessary to extend his career and his pursuit of HR records.
Manny has said he wants to fall into the 600 HR class before retiring. A 3-year deal should do it.
Red Sox aren’t “out of the Mark Teixeira business”.
Its just John Henry’s way of trying to save a buck. They’ll sign Teixeira by Friday. Book it.
“Red Sox aren’t “out of the Mark Teixeira business”.
Its just John Henry’s way of trying to save a buck. They’ll sign Teixeira by Friday. Book it.”
Agreed…although I think it’ll be done by Christmas Day or even on Christmas Day.
So as it stands with Tex:
Angels say they were played and are out.
Orioles and Nats have offers on the table.
Redsox have their best offer on the table and will not move from it.
Yanks not officially in it.
Seems like it’s time for Tex to pick. Redsox, Nats, Orioles are his choices.
Boras wants Yanks in to make the Redsox get to 190 mil but Yanks aren’t playing.
The only way I see the Yanks getting into it is if Tex really wants to be in NY and pulls a Beltran.
I concur with some other posters – Tex a Redsox by Xmas day – at least agreed on in principal details hammered out after XMAS.