Wang pleased with deal
-
- December
- 22
Spoke this evening with Alan Chang, who is one of the agents representing Chien-Ming Wang. He said the deal announced today was agreed to late last week and that Wang was pleased to get it done. CMW did not want to go to arbitration again.
“This time we were not that far apart from the Yankees and both sides made a committed effort to get it done,” Chang said. “It’s a deal that is respectful of what Wang has done. He was happy about it.”
Wang will return to the United States in about three weeks to start working with a trainer in Arizona. His right foot, Chang said, is completely healed. But to play it safe, Wang is doing his conditioning work on a bike instead of running.
Now that Wang has signed, the Yankees have three unsigned arbitration-eligible players: RHP Brian Bruney, OF Melky Cabrera and OF Xavier Nady. Arbitration filings start on Jan. 5.
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Peter Abraham
Yankees farmhand suspended for testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs
by NJ.com
Monday December 22, 2008, 2:41 PM
Yankees minor-league catcher Damian Taveras has been suspended 50 games by Major League Baseball for testing positive for the banned performance-enhancing drug Stanozolol. The suspension is effective at the start of the 2009 season.
Taveras, who turned 19 on Nov. 28, hit .229 in 43 games in the Dominican Summer League.
————–
Did this guy have any potential?
what is Bruney expected to make roughly?
He’s not one of their better catching prospects. They converted him from 3rd when he wasn’t looking like one of their better 3B prospects.
can i have some money wang?
I think you might want to as CC first. He’s getting 9 mil without even throwing a pitch first.
He’s only 19 though, don’t count him out just yet
Katie:
completely understand your position. Have never seen a player who had so many extreme pros/cons. Not to this level. As others have mentioned (SJ44 etc) it may be best for NYY to wait on a january. Or even a July, David Justice type of deal.
per Manny. I don’t expect he would sign for 2 years/option. If he is their target they should offer 2 years/60 million. It is better then 3 years/75 million. Whichever the case, i would definitely not offer him 4 years. No way
Well, as long as Wang is happy with the deal, I can’t complain. I think he’s worth more, but as I’ve been told by so many of the people on this blog, I dish out salaries based on emotion, not baseball sense.
Whatever.
That’s like 165 million yuan a year. Congrats Wangster!
Nats appear to be all in on Tex. Reported that they have upped offer to $178-$184/8 and are willing to add on years.
http://masnsports.com/2008/12/the-nationals-may-have-taken-t.html
I’m happy for Wang. Remember last year people where arguing whether he could be considered an ace?
What pitcher has 2 years of 19 consecutive wins in the AL East and is that dominant?
I hope they lock him up long term after this season if his foot is okay.
pat
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
“Nats appear to be all in on Tex. Reported that they have upped offer to $178-$184/8 and are willing to add on years.”
If Tex signs with the Nationals I anticipate he will be about as happy as Arod was playing for the Rangers.
no doubt Wang is an ace…im sure they will lock him up long term
The Nats drafted Aaron Crow with the 9th pick in the draft this year.
For much of the year Crow was considered the best pitcher in college. Ultimately Brian Matusz was selected ahead of Crow as the first pitcher picked.
Crow was still considered a very good power arm and mature. A guy who wouldn’t take too long to get to the pros.
The Nats failed to sign Crow however. He’s going back into the draft.
Why didn’t the nats sign crow? The sides were apart by $500K.
Think about that – the club is a 60 win team. It fails to sign their first round pick over $500K a year and now offers a 29 year old player $180M.
500K is too much. But 180M makes sense so that next year they can win 67 games instead of 63.
The whole key here is the additional years. If Washington is truly willing to offer a 9th year (never mind 10th) then they could land him.
Boston will not offer a 9th year.
That 9th year will be a bigger factor than the increase in the AAV. With a 9th year he will get close to $200M.
Glad Wang is happy with his deal.
Hey, that Graziano article from a couple of threads ago was really depressing. I know there are a lot of questions marks for the Yankees, but it always amazes me how come there are never the same questions marks for the teams the Yankees are most in contention with.
Sign everyone, money be d–ned!
I hope he takes the Nats offer. I don’t want him in Boston.
Imagine Tex, Youk and Pedroia in the Fenway infield. They could put Bobby Meacham at short and still have the best defensive infield.
I would trade Nady now. He wasn’t particularly good with the Yankees, and hasn’t been good except for his 2008 season with Pittsburgh. Trade him while his value is high.
Cashman won’t let the offense go without some addition. Graziano’s appraisal is of an in-process team, i’d bet serious money. No worries, Doreen. We’ll get Teixeira or Manny (sorry, i know you don’t want the latter.)
“it always amazes me how come there are never the same questions marks for the teams the Yankees are most in contention with.”
Thank you. I always wonder the same thing.
“The Nats failed to sign Crow however. He’s going back into the draft.
Why didn’t the nats sign crow? The sides were apart by $500K.
Think about that – the club is a 60 win team. It fails to sign their first round pick over $500K a year and now offers a 29 year old player $180M”
unbelievable.
“Now that Wang has signed, the Yankees have three unsigned arbitration-eligible players: RHP Brian Bruney, OF Melky Cabrera and OF Xavier Nady.”
With the kind of year Melky had, the judge at the arbitration hearing might tell him that he has to give some of his 2008 salary back to the Yankees.
falcons made the playoffs!!!!! wang is signed!!!! i know the former is a little late but all ive been doing is working/sleeping since 2pm yesterday lol… and giants fans, congrats on beating the panthers! i needed that win! now if we sign a big bat NOT named dunn or burell my christmas will be complete! hahahahaha
“I would trade Nady now.”
We can’t trade Nady because…well…he’s hot!!!
Seriously, I’m only up for trading Nady if 1)they are trading him because we’re getting Abreu back or 2)they need to dump him as part of signing Tex. Other than that, we should keep him.
vinny-b,
“Have never seen a player who had so many extreme pros/cons. Not to this level.”
Ah, yes, I think you may be on to what’s difficult about this situation (and that others haven’t discussed). I wasn’t around for Reggie or Babe, but I keep thinking about Strawberry and his bat speed. He pinch-hit only, by the time I was a Yankee fan, but, man, his bat speed made every at-bat something to watch. I’d do the same with Manny for the same reason.
with the market down-turn, and abundance of OF’ers available, i wonder what it would take to get crazy man?
is Milton Bradley able to play the OF well ??
if he would take a short term offer, maybe he a #3 hitter candidate.
The amazing thing about the nats signing Tex is that it would make Peter Angelos a great deal of money.
Angelos owns the majority of the TV rights for the nats. That was the price he extracted for allowing another team into the what was considered the orioles home region.
The Lerner’s shell out $180M for Tex. Angelos makes most of the money from any increased TV ratings.
The Nats are clueless. Oh well.
Boston is in a bad spot now if the Nats willingness to go 9 or 10 years is true.
j2:
except Strawberry was never really viewed in the same light as Manny. From what i know, Strawberry was viewed as a underachiever, who had too much ‘fun’ off the field. Not really the same category as Manny. Strawberry was more benign, IMO
At the plate Giambi > Tex
“is Milton Bradley able to play the OF well ??”
I recall that he used to be a pretty good outfielder for the Dodgers, but after the leg injury I don’t know. RF?
If healthy he would probably be better RF’er than Manny, Dunn, or Burrell, but to “preserve” him his best spot is DH.
CB-Any thoughts on Bradley?
A lot of people have written to say the Yankees can just trade Matsui, Damon or Nady to make room for another hitter.
Sounds good. However …
Damon and Matsui are due $13 million in 2009 then will be free agents. Both also have NTCs. In a market flush with corner OFs and DHs, what do you think you’re getting back for them? The answer is not much or you’d have to pay half their salary. Matsui also is incapable of playing the OF more than 1-2 days a week given his knees, so he’s have to go to an AL team. The market is such that the Brewers were going to get Melky Cabrera for Mike Cameron. Melky, like him or not, is a player who was demoted last season and when recalled in Sept., never played.
Nady is arb-eligible coming off his best season and will be a FA after next season and has Boras as his agent. In other words, any team obtaining him gets him for a year only and will have to pay large dollars now. Unquestionably he will enter the market.
It’s easy to say “trade these guys” but the reality is much different.
Damon only has a partial NTC
Rob Neyer on the Swisher trade
“Love it. Swisher was terribly unlucky this year, and with just average luck everybody’s going to think he’s made a brilliant comeback. He’s not a great hitter but he’s good, and also offers Joe Girardi some real flexibility (a nice change from Giambi)”
If Tex goes to the Nats for 8-10 years, if the Nats can start to draft as well as Tampa Bay, who knows but by the middle of Tex’s contract they might be competitive, especially with the right combo of veterans and minor leaguers. Plus he’ll be the face of the franchise and close to his parents.
In Boston he’ll have a chance to play in the playoffs but he’ll just be another star, where guys like Pedroia, Youklis and Ortiz are heroes.
Signing with the Nationals at a time of new politics in Washington, might be exciting, more exciting than living in Boston, home of the Chunnel.
Washington- Show him the MONEY!!!!
“Nats appear to be all in on Tex. Reported that they have upped offer to $178-$184/8 and are willing to add on years.”
Maybe the Steinbrenner family could help subsidize this transaction.
Harwood:
That’s true. Now give me the list of teams (not including the AL East) that need a corner OF and can afford Johnny. Then tell me who the leadoff hitter is next season.
If they trade them, they’d have to pick up $6 million and get a second-tier prospect back. Meanwhile, you weaken another area of the team.
When the Yankees spent the money they did on their veterans, it locked them into certain things. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just saying what it is. Just because a good player or two is a FA doesn’t mean they can erase everything and start over.
Peter, if an injured Mike Lowell can be dumped on another team, then Damon can be dumped now or at the trade deadline. He’s certainly not immovable.
Peter-
Agree with you.
Damon will not get traded. In fact if he puts up the same numbers, I suspect he’ll get a 1-2 year extension.
If anyone gets traded it’ll be Swisher, with whom Cashman has said he fielded a lot of calls for him after we traded for him.
Would be ok with Tex on the Nats especially if they get better and beat out the Mets one of the next 3 years. Of course we would have to get Manny to compensate.
We could then replace Manny with Tex when he opts out of Nats deal.
Now this would be the best of all worlds.
Boston loses
We get Manny
Nats give Mets fits
We get Tex later
vinny-b,
You are correct, of course, in terms of the club-house presence of the two players: Strawberry was never the, what-should-I-say, “teammate” that Manny has been. Still, at the plate and their offensive prowess, they are similar.
j2:
definitely. The both have/had similar skill sets. Limitless. The Straw Man having immense raw power. And Manny’s ability to hit for very high average.
“Boston loses
We get Manny
Nats give Mets fits
We get Tex later”
why get tex then when u can get pujols who will be avaible then
“In Boston he’ll have a chance to play in the playoffs but he’ll just be another star, where guys like Pedroia, Youklis and Ortiz are heroes.”
So, using this argument CC should have never signed with the Yankees because he will just be another star, where guys like Jeter, Posada, and Arod are heroes.
“why get tex then when u can get pujols who will be avaible then”
good point. Tex cannot hold Pujol’s jock
They’ll trade Nady before they trade Swisher.
vinny-b,
It looks like they swing the bat as if it were a toothpick.
Would be fun to watch such a super star again. A-rod of 2007 was close, but not quite there, although I did run in from the kitchen to watch a few at-bats with A-rod. Nothing like what would likely be the case with Manny (or was with Straw.)
I’m glad that Wang is happy but he needs to get a better agent. Last year the Yanks fought him in arbitration over a measly 500K. Now they give him a small bump. I get the under control thing but please, fighting your #1 starter for what amounts to Hank’s lunch money. So wrong.
j2: word.
and another factor which was a amazing with Strawberry, was his phisique. When viwing footage of his past games (with the Mets) he was *skinny*. Yet able to generate such torque/power. BTW, whenever have seen him interviwed he is a completely likable person. Very nice.
Pete, they could move Matsui,Nady or Swisher as people do it everyday when they trade their spose for another.
It’s called paying alimony when a no trade claused spouse gets released for a better prospect.
I don’t think they want to move Damon as he is too good of a recruiter.
Gabagoo(CC IS MY BOY)
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
“Boston loses
We get Manny
Nats give Mets fits
We get Tex later”
why get tex then when u can get pujols who will be avaible then
——
That will work too but he may cost 50 mm by then lol
wow – i guess wang really didn’t like arbritration last year. i have heard it gets ugly in there, and coming off an injury shortened season, i’m sure he just didn’t want to deal.
good for him. and good for the yankees – they’re finally getting the good early years out of a top flight pitcher. how novel.
Well, as long as Wang is happy with the deal, I can’t complain. I think he’s worth more…
I agree! I dont think this contract symbolises any respect for wang. I just hope free agency comes sooner for wang now!
“Now give me the list of teams (not including the AL East) that need a corner OF and can afford Johnny.”
I dont know who needs corners really. Whats the Mets situation?
“Then tell me who the leadoff hitter is next season.”
Jeter?
Of the 3 Damon is the last Id want to move. But if we could get something for him why not? Didnt the Brewers also try to get Kennedy with Melky? Cash + Damon and we cant land 1 decent infield prospect?
This just in, Heyman is reporting that someone else told him about someone else who claims that Tex will sign before Christmas, they think. Where, well that is the question now isn’t!
We need to all thank Pete for not wasting our time with these “awesome” rumors!
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/34981-teixeira-deal-appears-imminent-but-with-whom
”
Damon will not get traded. In fact if he puts up the same numbers, I suspect he’ll get a 1-2 year extension.
If anyone gets traded it’ll be Swisher, with whom Cashman has said he fielded a lot of calls for him after we traded for him.”
I doubt Damon puts up last years numbers again. And Swish is not getting traded.
We need to target a young left handed first baseman by the name of Adrian Gonzalez….
If it takes Hughes and others I don’t care…
Heyman = Bora’s mouthpiece.
Coming soon to a blog near you
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/34981-teixeira-deal-appears-imminent-but-with-whom
“doubt Damon puts up last years numbers again. And Swish is not getting traded.’
thank you, some sense around here.
and for those worried about wang, i’m sure he’s doing fine. he’s a hero in taiwan and peter has reported on this very blog that the guy is not want of endorsement deals there.
for melky’s arbitration case, on the other hand, i hear the yankees are calling on clint eastwood
Jeter: Yankees don’t need Manny
Derek Jeter doesn’t think Manny Ramirez would be a problem in the Yankees clubhouse. But the Yankees captain doesn’t seem to feel the Yankees need him.
“We have a pretty good lineup,” Jeter said. “I think we’ve scored plenty of runs.”
“I don’t know Manny well,” Jeter said. “But I don’t think people have problems fitting in (on the Yankees).
“We’ve had some free (spirit) personalities throughout the years. David Wells was his own person. Giambi was his own person. Johnny (Damon) is his own person. … We welcome people with their own personalities. … I’m not going to sit here and tell you how (Ramirez) fits in the clubhouse because he’s not in the clubhouse.”
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/12/jeter_yankees_dont_need_manny.html
Small Market teams can rejoice, the Yankees just bought your owners new yatchts!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3788527
If we haven’t made an offer by now, we don’t plan to.
Tex will be in Boston folks, it is inevitable.
In other words Jeter doesn’t want Manny.
homer- Why cause we didn’t swoop in and take Alex from them?
vinny-b,
Not to belabor this, but, yeah, exactly. How improbable that a skinny dude like Straw could have such power. All bat speed, IMO. Think Manny is the same. It is true that Strawberry is a compelling persona in a way that Manny isn’t. I mean, Straw is super intelligent. As I’m sure you’ve heard him interviewed, the guy has a brain and could manage a leading team if he were born at a different time, with different temptations.
Again, though, I like Manny’s goofiness. I can’t help but want him on our team. Guess I don’t particularly like the militaristic conformity that “the professional Yankees” represent.
lol So Jeter is basically telling he he wants no part of Manny here
Love the Jetes
Time to sign Wang to a long term deal. Try and get him at a discount.
If you go to http://www.mlb.com they say that jeter would welcome manny.
“Teixeira deal appears imminent — but with whom?”
-john heyman
where were you on that one, pete?
Read between the lines. Jeter doesn’t want Manny. He never outright says anything.
It is just like Jeter saying he doesn’t recruit anyone, he doesn’t need to sell NY. BS, CC basically said Jeter kept calling him. Why? to sell the Yankees and NY.
jennifer, Dome,
I don’t think that’s what Jetes is saying, at all. I read his comments as typically noncommittal, very political: we could work Manny in , we could do without him.
Heyman is hedging his bets. He knows Tex said he wanted a deal done by Christmas, and Christmas is 3 days away.
How does Jeter not know Manny personally? They have been playing against eachother for over a decade.
I always thought Jeter and Manny were tight
j2- Jeter knows he can’t say I don’t want Manny here. All that bs is Jeter speak for we don’t want him.
“I always thought Jeter and Manny were tight”
that was Enrique “red voodoo chili peppers” Wilson, you may be thinking of.
jen,
Disagree, respectfully, of course. Jeter is a team Yankee guy. He’s not giving away the store a la Damon (”A.J. is nasty and he’d be great on our side.”), but he’s also not closing the door to what might be. I think it’s a live possibility that Manny will be a Yankee, given Jetes’ comments. Jeter never lobbied openly for Williams, as I recall, or anyone, for that matter. Yet, he loved those guys: Tino, Bernie.
“do you really think the yanks are going to open a new stadium with .219 swisher at first base????”
These are the kind of quotes that really make me wonder
checking Swisher’s career stats, they’re not bad. Definitely the type of player you reserve judgment for.
Wang for 5 mil? Yes please.
“In other words Jeter doesn’t want Manny.”
That’s exactly what I took away from his statement. After listening to Jeter all of these years, you get to understand how he goes about saying something without flat out saying it. His comment about already having a good lineup was a dead giveaway.
Jennifer, we didn’t swoop in and steal Alex, the Union didn’t approve the contract reconstruction.
“Jeter never lobbied openly for Williams, as I recall, or anyone, for that matter. Yet, he loved those guys: Tino, Bernie.”
Why would he have to lobby for Bernie? They both came out of the farm system. Bernie wasn’t some FA we were pursuing.
Heyman’s not hedging his bets, Boras told him that. They are tight.
“I always thought Jeter and Manny were tight”
Actually, from what I’ve seen from photos and news stories, A-Rod is tighter with Manny (and Ortiz) than Jeter is.
Haha Jon Heyman is such a genius! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Teixeira is going to decide soon. All the offers are in and two teams have already backed off, with one dropping out completely. Boras knows that Tex is at his highest value right now.
“Heyman’s not hedging his bets, Boras told him that. They are tight”
his lap dog. (aka Man’s best friend)
Laura,
Ahhh, Bernie had a couple of years there where it was uncertain that he would play. Ultimately, he didn’t.
“Again, though, I like Manny’s goofiness. I can’t help but want him on our team. Guess I don’t particularly like the militaristic conformity that “the professional Yankees” represent.”
Yeah, our motto of not attacking our traveling secretary is a real downer.
“Small Market teams can rejoice, the Yankees just bought your owners new yatchts!”
Luxury tax goes to the league and player benefits not smaller market teams.
Is it me, or does every Heyman article about Teixeira read the same?
“Heyman’s not hedging his bets, Boras told him that. They are tight”
Boras may have Heyman in his back pocket, but his comments are more an attempt of trying to make news. After CC and AJ went, the Hot Stove got as cold as Chicago’s weather. The writers need something to write about and right now, Tex is it!
i hate pettite
would like to see Timmy Kurk, assigned to higher position of breaking MLB trades/signings.
very likable person, unlike Jon Heyman and most of the others.
Uh, Laura,
As long as you seem fine with mocking my words (What’s with that, Mannism?), let me just say, we were third last year, with no apparent energy. Yes, pitching and related injuries were a problem, but as I watched, the Yanks seemed lackluster at best in terms of their energy and/or personality.
“Haha Jon Heyman is such a genius! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Teixeira is going to decide soon.”
That’s not the purpose of that report. It’s not the information that’s of note it’s the message.
Boras leaked that to Heyman for a purpose.
That’s basically Boras’ way of saying to any potentially interested team it’s time for all clubs to put in their last bids. The auction is closing.
It sounds stupid when Heyman writes some of these things but each message serves a purpose, and that purpose is most likely boras’s.
This Heyman reports along with that report that the Nats have upped their bids to $184M and may be willing to go to 9yrs or even 10 are clear messages to the Sox and perhaps even to the yankees.
Get in with your best bid now. He’s trying to up the pressure by whatever means he can.
Ray[bostonfan]-
“In Boston he’ll have a chance to play in the playoffs but he’ll just be another star, where guys like Pedroia, Youklis and Ortiz are heroes.”
“So, using this argument CC should have never signed with the Yankees because he will just be another star, where guys like Jeter, Posada, and Arod are heroes.”
No Ray- CC is the star of the pitching rotation to go along with Rivera. Tex, in NY would just be one of the stars, but just like in Boston, behind the likes of Jeter, Posada, Damon, and A-Rod.
In Washington, Teixeira would be the new “Cover Boy.”
“As long as you seem fine with mocking my words (What’s with that, Mannism?), let me just say, we were third last year, with no apparent energy. Yes, pitching and related injuries were a problem, but as I watched, the Yanks seemed lackluster at best in terms of their energy and/or personality.”
And you think we’ll play better just by having a goof ball like Manny in the clubhouse? I doubt it. He’ll probably be more of a distraction than anything else.
Manny, Tex AND either Sheets or Lowe….WOW ! ( story at 11 )
Thanks Pat, so what does the MLB do with the luxury tax money not allocated to the players benefits? And by player benefits, is that the players retirement fund or is that referring to their health care benefits?
If they don’t sign another hitter, it’s 3rd place again. The current lineup isn’t gonna cut it, it’s just not. I don’t care what anyone else tells me. Subtracting Abreu/Giambi and adding Swisher is making an already pedestrian offense even more mediocre. Can’t wait until the Yanks are 6 games out near the trade deadline and determine…guess what..we need more hitting.
Signing Pettitte for 10+ million is ridiculous. He’s been a great Yankee but c’mon he had 5.35 ERA and 1.53 WHIP post all-star break. I’d rather take my chances on Hughes and company and use that money for a hitter.
Wow,
Do you have info., or a source to site for your Teix., Sheets, or Lowe prediction?
“That’s not the purpose of that report. It’s not the information that’s of note it’s the message.
Boras leaked that to Heyman for a purpose.
That’s basically Boras’ way of saying to any potentially interested team it’s time for all clubs to put in their last bids. The auction is closing.
It sounds stupid when Heyman writes some of these things but each message serves a purpose, and that purpose is most likely boras’s.”
CB: this never makes sense to me. Wouldn’t it be more effective, for Boras to simply have this same dialog with the teams involved? I mean, the teams who have submitted bids are inside the loop. Why would they have to depend on newspapers for their information??
This Heyman reports along with that report that the Nats have upped their bids to $184M and may be willing to go to 9yrs or even 10 are clear messages to the Sox and perhaps even to the yankees.
Get in with your best bid now. He’s trying to up the pressure by whatever means he can
…
Did Jeter pay attention to this offense at all last year? I understand he was just trying to be politically correct but he shouldn’t have said anything. Saying that we have good enough and score plenty of runs is not accurate.
repost (i messed it up):
CB: this never makes sense to me. Wouldn’t it be more effective, for Boras to simply have this same dialog with the teams involved? I mean, the teams who have submitted bids are inside the loop. Why would they have to depend on newspapers for their information??
“Signing Pettitte for 10+ million is ridiculous. He’s been a great Yankee but c’mon he had 5.35 ERA and 1.53 WHIP post all-star break.”
Andy Pettitte needs to take some of his money and hire a skywriter. He should have this guy write across the NYC sky “I WAS PITCHING INJURED DURING THE 2ND HALF BECAUSE OUR ROTATION WAS CRAP AND COULDN’T HANDLE LOSING ANOTHER PITCHER!!!!”
Maybe then, people will get it.
CB-
“This Heyman reports along with that report that the Nats have upped their bids to $184M and may be willing to go to 9yrs or even 10 are clear messages to the Sox and perhaps even to the yankees.”
The Yankees and Cashman are pros at this. If they really want Teixeira for 8-9 years they’ll get him, but in the end if the Nationals have indeed made the highest bid, they’ll play to the end and fold, while allowing him to sign with the NL Nationals.
Stew,
Agree 100%. Unless the Rays fall off a cliff (certainly possible, but don’t bet on it), our fate is still 3rd place. We’re just a better and flashier 3rd place team this year without another big bat.
Re: Jeter not recruiting Manny
Perhaps because Manny is a Boras client and Boras often demands unreasonable money. Jeter shouldn’t be giving Boras any leverage in negotiations whatsoever and that goes for Manny and Tex, another guy nearly ignored by the likes of Jeter and Damon
It’s possible that the front office cues certain players to recruit free agents and at other times instructs those same players to keep mum on other targets if the organization believes that is the smarter strategy.
Jeter’s comments about the lineup being set and strong show that we’re not as desperate for hitting as we were for pitching which is true. Therefore, Jeter doesn’t expect the team to overpay for a hitter and we shouldn’t.
It’s that simple.
“Saying that we have good enough and score plenty of runs is not accurate.”
He needed a polite way of saying “We don’t want Manny”. That’s what he came up with. Not totally accurate for sure, but he got his point across.
if jeter really cared about winning another WS he would realize how meidocre this lineup is and lobby for manny or teixeria
i guess jetes is content with 3rd place or at best a wild card berth and 1st round exit. this is not a WS calibur team without a big bat
“Did Jeter pay attention to this offense at all last year? I understand he was just trying to be politically correct but he shouldn’t have said anything. Saying that we have good enough and score plenty of runs is not accurate.”
I remember Jeter saying the exact opposite all season long in his post game interviews. I was surprised to see him say that now after saying dozens of times the offense wasnt doing its job.
I agree. The offense as contructed, will not cut it.
at the same time, no need to panic. NYY have between now and perhaps July (depending on the start they have) to add a bat.
Milton Bradley would be an ideal candidate for the lineup. If were able to sign him for 2 years.
Who cares what Jeter says?
A-Rod is the leader of this team now and he is best friends with Manny. The dynasty guys might be on their high horse when it comes to Manny, but the rest of the team would probably love him. Damon is good friends with him too and you know all the Latin players will love him.
A-Rod needs to make his presence felt and facilitate this deal.
Exactly… I thought Jeter always talked about how disappointing the offense was this year in his postgames?
Does he think that CC and AJ can hit too and can replace Giambi/Abreu?
Being off the juice tends to wear down a pitcher in the 2nd half. Also tends to make them more injury prone.
It doesn’t even need to be manny or tex
milton bradley, dunn, or even bring back abreu for a year
do something. this offense isin’t good enough
Laura,
Could you strive for a little nuance in your posts, or might that conflict with your view of what a blog is about?
Hughes will outperform Andy next year, guaranteed.
Put that $10 towards the offense… you know, the thing we actually need.
Another bat > Overpaid 5th starter
“this never makes sense to me. Wouldn’t it be more effective, for Boras to simply have this same dialog with the teams involved?”
Eventually he will but he wants to do this on his own terms and that mean creating the impression that there are as many serious teams involved as possible.
Doing it via the media at least allows him to create uncertainty that he can exploit.
It also lessens the needs for him to have to go back to the teams and initiate contact.
Supposedly the Sox haven’t had any contact with boras since last thursday. Who knows if that’s true. Probably not entirely true. But this kind of stuff still interjectst the yankees into the discussion and might make the sox think twice. Or at least that’s the hope.
Look what it said about the yankees. The yanks have gone from the “perhiphery” to now willing to bid a little over $160M but not too much over.
What does that mean? If the 800 lb gorilla is in it’s going to leave its footprint. He’s trying to at least create the impression that the yankees are playing coy right now and will swoop in later on.
How much any of this does. Who knows. Boras has been very good at getting teams to bid against themselves in the past.
But teams might be catching up now. What the sox did to Boras on thursday might not have happenned 10 years ago. They called his bluff and it looks like it worked. The negotiations are coming to a close.
The angels did the same thing – instead of being used to drive up the price they simply got out as they didn’t want to be played.
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems to me Boras isn’t quite as effective at this charade as he used to be.
Re: Matsui, Damon, Nady or Swisher getting traded
Peter Abe,
Thank you for admitting that the Yankees would only have to eat half of Matsui’s salary or 6.5 million if they wanted something decent in return. If they want to dump salary in return for nothing of value ala Mike Cameron for Melky, it can be done.
Anybody who denies that the Yankees can move Matsui by eating 4-5 million dollars is spreading rumors.
As for Damon, he’s staying because he’s our leadoff hitter and the Sabathia’s described the Damon’s courting of them as ‘instrumental’ in convincing CC to relocate to the city of NY.
That being said, he’s still fragile and will be looking for a big money deal. Meanwhile the Yankees are looking to get younger. This will be Damon’s last year as a Yankee and he won’t be signing any extension as some have suggested. Keeping an injury prone guy at a high annual cost doesn’t seem to fit with the direction of the team.
As for Nady and Swisher. Cashman traded for them because they’re both in the prime of their careers and produce average to above average offense. Both are versatile and both have strong mental makeup. Nady’s production dropped with the Yankees from Pitt but he was adjusting to the new league and unfamiliar pitchers so maybe that had something to do with it. Regardless, he was clutch. I’m amazed how people can dwell on his BA so intensely that they forget him collecting big hit after big hit.
Nady and Swisher are also both signed to reasonable contracts and they help balance payroll. Cashman worked extra hard to acquire them and GM’s across baseball were calling their original teams and proposing trades. There was and still is a market for those guys and the Yankees were the ones to offer fair value for their services.
Nady has played half a season in NY and Swisher has yet to even put on a uni.
They’re not going anywhere.
CB: thank you. I understand now. It does make some sense.
Tom
50% goes to players benefits but not sure which ones. 25% goes to developing baseball programs and players in countries that do not have organized high school baseball programs and 25% goes to the MLB industry growth fund to promote MLB.
Jets should trade for Rex Grossman
Re: Arod the leader of this team now
No he isn’t.
Comes down to this for Yanks. Pay Tex now. Or pay someone else more later. Lack of position prospects requires Yanks to add young quality hitter. People keep mentioning Holliday and Pujols. How do we know we can get them. And won’t they cost as much or more. Yanks need to put one youngish position player in place and build future around him. Best alternative right now is Mark Teixeira. It’s that simple. Otherwise we’ll be paying through the teeth to get someone in July — and they’ll want Hughes and Brackman and Ajax and we may then have no choice. Move now, guys.
<<>
Great point, Manchester U! The detractors always say how Matsui cannot be traded because he’s coming off two knee surgeries.
Well, Boston is looking to trade Lowell coming off of HIP SURGERY for cripes sake! Cashman and company can and should explore every trade option, after the Yanks sign Tex!
1.43 WHIP in 2007. That’s pretty ghastly. Sure, sign me up for $16 million more of a vastly overpaid 5th starter. Nevermind the offense that finished 7th in the AL in runs scored and lost their 2nd best hitter.
We add two top starters but we also lose Mike Mussina. So in reality, we gain one starter. So we want to limit our budget…fine..but spend the remaining money wisely.
“Jeter’s comments about the lineup being set and strong show that we’re not as desperate for hitting as we were for pitching which is true. Therefore, Jeter doesn’t expect the team to overpay for a hitter and we shouldn’t.”
Certainly would be saintly of Jeter to offer the Yankees to defer some of his salary, so that we can enhance the lineup. Maybe if CC wants his good friend Cameron, he can pay his ten million salary out of pocket!!
Certainly hope the cash cow for the Yankees keeps on giving. Heard they’re asking the city for more money in bonds, and that 6 skyboxes at $600,000-800,000 remain unsold.
“As for Damon, he’s staying because he’s our leadoff hitter and the Sabathia’s described the Damon’s courting of them as ‘instrumental’ in convincing CC to relocate to the city of NY.”
AJ said that as well. Damon is the official Yankees FA ambassador.
“He needed a polite way of saying “We don’t want Manny”. That’s what he came up with. Not totally accurate for sure, but he got his point across.”
I really don’t care if the Yanks get Manny or not but some of you are so extreme in your beliefs that you can’t even see some grey area. If Jeter was not totally acurate in his assessment of the offense how can you be so sure he is totally accurate in his assessment of Manny being needed or not being needed by the team. Not everything is so black and white; there’s lots of grey if you choose to see it.
bottom line—
That’s correct. If he doesn’t get Manny or Tex now, then when the offense is meandering through medicority in early June and we are losing a bunch of low scoring games, Cashman will be forced to trade top shelve prospects for another bat to try and salvage the season.
I don’t even think the patient Hal will stand for a second season with no playoffs. He already acknowledged that the bar has been raised with all the money we spent so far and the expectations are higher.
All you are doing is adding more pressure to yourself and pretty much laying the groundwork to make a short sighted move for a bat at the deadline using (Hughes, Jackson, etc.) to salvage the season. Up to Cashman whether he wants to presented with that very likely scenario or go ahead and secure the bat right now for only Cash.
vinny,
he’s just trying to get as much leverage as he can.
I think they’ve already been exposed some. Reportedly Tex told Henry that he had offers of over $190M.
That’s clearly not true and now every team knows it. Boras was probably hoping to get the sox to bid against themselves on thursday by first creating the impression Tex was open to signing. They fly down there. Then boras says we have offers that are much higher.
Henry called his bluff by walking out and sending a message to Tex himself through that email to the AP – we like you but there’s no way we’re paying you $190M.
So now we’ll see. I’m sure boras is still hoping the yankees will put in a major bid.
Otherwise all he has is the nationals desperation.
The angels have already pulled out. The sox refused to budge.
Tex isn’t likely have more leverage or do better than he can right now so they’re likely closing things up.
We’ll see what happens.
If we don’t get a big bat now, then he will end up trading Hughes or Jackson for Holliday sometime in the middle of June out of desperation.
You are crazy if you think Hal will stand for another non-playoff season, which will add even more pressure to Cashman at the deadline if the offense is sputtering and the aging players don’t perform
“Re: Arod the leader of this team now
No he isn’t.”
The Yankees are a veteran team. There are multiple leaders in the clubhouse in their own way.
“We add two top starters but we also lose Mike Mussina. So in reality, we gain one starter. ”
No. They gain more than that. CC will go far deeper into games than mussina did so it’s not a one to one correspondence.
CC will save considerably more runs than Moose did because he’ll pitch at a better rate while also throwing more innings. That way the pitchers in the pen, pitchers who are far less talented than moose or cc, will not be throwing extra innings.
All of the yankees top 3 starters will likely go deep into games (if AJ is healthy enough to make the start he works deep…).
This is a major reason why the yankees staff will prevent considerably more runs than either boston’s or tampa bays.
Wang is NOT an “Ace”
Subtract Abreu (22 steals). Now trade Damon, our true leadoff hitter. When we need other ways to score. When we are already getting old and slower. Why exactly? Uh no.
Everyone is right when you say if you don’t pay for the hitter now, eventually when they realize their hitting stinks they are gonna go out and trade for someone. Then you’re giving up your financial advantage and weakening the farm system. Makes no sense to me.
“If we don’t get a big bat now, then he will end up trading Hughes or Jackson for Holliday sometime in the middle of June out of desperation.”
Exactly. And Tex fits us perfectly right now and all it takes is money. And it shuts Boston out of any major FA improvements. We end up being way better then them and they end up trading away pitching out of desperation to improve some of their trash. Its win win win win win.
Being off the juice tends to wear down a pitcher in the 2nd half. Also tends to make them more injury prone.
—Hey, is that you? That shady guy with the bag of bats hangin outside the stadium door when practice gets out? How much you askin?
Re: Ichiro (from a couple threads ago)
Somebody said that Ichiro’s contract is a bad contract. He has missed a grand total of 16 games in 8 seasons and for all you math people at home, 2 games missed per season on average.
His contract earns him 17 mil per season for 4 more seasons. He will be turning the same age in the last year of his deal as Tex and Manny will in theirs. The difference is he’ll cost less per year and fills the Yankees need for a 3 hitter this season and a leadoff hitter after Damon leaves. He’s also capable of playing CF for 1 or 2 more years and shifting to LF whenever Jackson is ready.
If the Yankees can pull off a reasonable trade for Ichiro, then we’re the team to beat.
Meachum,
You are right. If you are Cashman, that has to keep you up at night. What if the aging players coming off injuries don’t put up their normal career stats? What happens if Cano and Swisher don’t rebound? What happens if Nady continues getting exposed in the AL and Gardner can’t get the ball out of the infield?
And there is an excellent chance that a lot if not all of those things occur. This offense is filled with question marks.
Can anyone offer me a concise explanation as to how arbitration works?
Time for the Yankees to swing the big hammer.
Once they get Tex in place they’ll be able to unload surplus to other teams in July — and they’ll be the desperate ones, not us.
That is the point. Cashman is basically setting himself up to fail and mortgage the farm next summer.
He will be compelled to make the playoffs and will have no choice but to trade big time prospects to try and add punch to the lineup.
re: Bobby Abreu and the value of his speed.
There isn’t any value there whatsoever. He stole 22 bases but was caught 11 times. For all you math people that’s a CS of 50%. Those numbers just wreak of selfish stat-padding to me. Combine that with the fact that he’s afraid to break a nail in the outfield and I’m totally baffled as to why people don’t see Nady as a smart, well-calculated upgrade that was thoroughly planned by the front office.
Abreu is still riding his steroid induced HR derby.
Nady outhit him overall last year and he’s better defensively and not a selfish money grubber like Bobby Abreu.
Geez, the Phillies really missed that guy didn’t they? Too bad they’re stuck with Shane Victorino.
Vince
Yanks assess a $ value on a player. The player assesses a $ value on himself. An arbitrator decides which they get paid based on the facts each side provides. Amount has to be the teams number or the players number not one in between.
We are going to be the slowest team in the league next year.
Check out this guy from FOX Sports, Dayn Perry! His metrics make a lot of sense.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8971224/Yankees-haven‘t-overtaken-BoSox,-Rays
im no math people but that looks like a caught stealing rate of 33%
Re: the slowest team in the league next year
The main reason why Ichiro should be the top target for the Yankees. That combined with the fact that CF is the position where the greatest upgrade can be achieved. Ichiro stole 40+ bases last season and was caught only 4 times. With base-stealing efficiency like that, you’re going to change the game in ways that don’t show up in the box score. When you’re on base, pitchers are totally distracted by you, therefore more prone to hurry their motion and throw a bad pitch.
Damon, Jeter, Ichiro and Arod would make swift 1-2-3-4 hitting in front of Matsui. Swisher is faster than Giambi too. The darkhorse is Brett Gardner who could easily steal 30-40 bases off the bench.
I don’t mind putting Nady in place of Abreu (especially for the defensive upgrade)….. but he still takes 3rd base on a single with the best of them. That has value. Unless you like station to station Oakland A’s baseball. You know, that same offense that scores 1 run a game in the playoffs. Contrast that with Tampa with Upton, Crawford, etc. That was merely my point. We’re damn slow so trading Damon doesn’t make any sense to me.
re: Abreu caught stealing
Brain fart on my part. He’s still overrated and 33% is high.
This thread has really made me optimistic.
I think we’ll sign some bats by the end of the season.
1) Obviously Cash got rid of Giambi and Abreu for a reason, and not to just leave us in the cold… and not to subject himself to another losing season.
2) Jeter is obviously in on the negotiating strategy in some way…
WAHOO!! We’re getting a bat!!
So–here is the question–
1) put manny at first and wait for Pujols
2) sign both tex and manny, sign pujols in 2012 and, as in the case of A-rod, just put him in a different position…
re: Trading Damon
True Stew. Makes no sense unless the Yankees are getting back more than fair value. Highly unlikely if you ask me.
Manny can’t play center field, can he?
Re: Manny vs. Ichiro
I take Ichiro.
“Re: Manny vs. Ichiro
I take Ichiro.”
As far as entertainment value its about even. Manny at .632 Ich at .629
Really? Ichiro is overrated and overpaid. His career OPS+ is 117.
Ichiro wouldn’t help much. Tex or Manny or Dunn.
Hey I know of a guy who comes both cheaply and short term. He hits about 30 HR / 100 rbis/ OBP usually high 300’s.
Here’s a hint:
He wears a “stache”
Lance Berkman?
Apparently the Astros aren’t interested in trading Berkman.
they will be in july when the cubs are up 8 games in the division lol
wang get paid ! about time he alway s get the short end of the stick lol carlos silva makes more andy p does tooo shame shame shame sign tex or mannny pleasee i am pleading with u cashhhhh
Berkman’s a beard only guy.
Here’s another hint:
Fill in the blank: “The_____Bino”
Overrated *and* overpaid? Sounds perfect.
Giambi coming back would be a feel-good story – for Giambi.
“He wears a “stache””
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
The Albino? Is he new?
I share all your pain. But I’m starting to get “the fear”.
Lure Donnie Baseball out of retirement?
The Teix-bino
BLB
If the Wanger is happy, then I am happy!
stationary bike or mountain bike?
Come on erybody (yes I said ery) lets sing along
On the 1st day of christmas my GM got for me a CC to NYC
On the 2nd day of christmas my GM got for me AJ Burnett and a CC to NYC
On the 3rd day of christmas my GM got for me a bargain on Wang, AJ Burnett, and a CC to NYC
Now we can get something for Wang
(LOL)
“If we don’t get a big bat now, then he will end up trading Hughes or Jackson for Holliday sometime in the middle of June out of desperation.”
—————–
That’s a bunch of baloney.
Cashman has had many opportunities to trade either of those guys and he has refused every step of the way.
He refused to deal Hughes in the Santana talks and he refused to deal Jackson in the Nady/Marte talks.
And even though the Yankee rotation was decimated with injuries, Cashman refused to deal any of his top prospects for a guy like Harden or Sabathia when they were available.
Cashman doesn’t like to “pay twice” for anyone.
They were so desperate for pitching last year that they signed Ponson and were in serious talks with Seattle for a bum like Jarrod Washburn. The Yanks still walked away from that deal because Seattle wanted more than a nothing prospect in return.
So if Cashman wasn’t desperate enough to give away his young kids last season – he won’t do it this season.
This is one of those times when Pete is right.
No way Damon or Matsui can be traded, and you won’t even get fair value back for Nady at this point. The time to trade Matsui was last year to an offense strapped Giant team. And he blinked and didn’t make the trade.
Boston will find out that trading Lowell will be next to impossible. Just like they thought people would be lining up to talk Lugo off their hands at 9M per year.
You gotta laugh at Lowell. Guy turned down a few 4 year offers to give the Red Sox a break because he wanted to stay. Now they’re trying to throw his corpse into a dumpster 1 year into the deal.
He’s getting riped off! He should be making Derek Lowe money. Great deal for the Yankees.
riped = ripped
pat -
I very much agree with you regarding shades of grey. I read the Jeter article, and perhaps I’m naive, but I didn’t see any hidden messages. He said he didn’t think the Yankees needed him. But he also went on to say that he didn’t see why, if they did get him, he wouldn’t fit in in their clubhouse. Seems to me, he’s doing what a lot of people here are doing (me included) which is to look at the situation from a couple of different angles. In summary, he thinks their offense is sufficient without Manny, but if they did get him he doesn’t anticipate clubhouse problems because the Yankees have had free-spirited players before. I believe Jeter actually expressed 2 opinions here!
He also said since Manny isn’t actually in the clubhouse, he really couldn’t say exactly how he’d be. Which, you know, is true!
Before I get so involved in the day before the day before Christmas with all the last-minute preparation for Christmas Eve dinner, I want to take the opportunity to wish everyone here a safe, healthy and happy Holiday Season – Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah – and best wishes the New Year!
boston is going to get tex. the yankees are not willing to go for the knockout this off season with boston. they will have to live with less offense this year….maybe they should bring back abreu at least that will give them a little more firepower.
maybe they should bring back abreu at least that will give them a little more firepower.
————
And put Abreu where?
The primary reasons they are letting him walk is because of his age and horrific defense.
They already have a DH with Matsui.
this teixeira thing is ridiculous! when he said, like 10 days ago that he thought he’d decide before christmas i thought that was crazy long, now it looks like its going past christmas. and it also looks as if nobody has raised thier offer in a week now.
just sign with somebody and get off the stage already!
Even Jeter said Manny no Jeter himself would have a problem with the Yankee club house ! .
Mike -
Where did you read that Jeter would have a problem with Manny in the clubhouse? He specifically said he did NOT think Manny would have a problem fitting in on the Yankees.
bernie went 1/3 in his winter league debut!
good luck to him, i cant wait to see him in the wbc!
Doreen got to MLB.Com
i am convinced that yankee brain trust is happy to put a good product on the field….a team that is competitive….enough to keep the interest of the fans….and maybe if everything breaks right get in the playoffs…..but they will not spend the money to put the best team on the field….this is a team being run like a business now….unfortunately the fans better get use to that because George is now gone
this masn guy says the nats have upped thier offer to tex and may go 9 or 10 yrs. they really seemed determined not to let the sox beat them out:
http://masnsports.com/2008/12/the-nationals-may-have-taken-t.html
this would be GREAT if he goes to DC!
Mike -
I think I misunderstood your typing. MLB says Jeter would have no problem with Manny – what you typed, I thought you were saying Jeter himself WOULD have a problem with Manny.
*Even Jeter said Manny no Jeter himself would have a problem with the Yankee club house!*
——
um, actually he didnt say that at all, and said he thought that he prob wouldnt have a problem:
“Jeter spoke on Monday in Central Park at a charity event for his Turn 2 Foundation, and though he does not believe it to be the Yankees’ most pressing issue, Ramirez could help improve a lineup that ranked 10th in the Major Leagues in run production.
“I don’t know him personally, with the exception of playing against him and on some All-Star teams,” Jeter said. “I know he’s had a lot of success everywhere he’s gone, and it seems his teams have done been pretty good.
“Not too many people have problems fitting in, I don’t think.”
*this would be GREAT if he goes to DC!*
itd be better if he came to the bronx.
Doreen
The more experiences you have in life, the more grey you are capable of seeing and I’m not just talking about my hair.
6 reporters heard Jeter say the same thing and all came away with diferent perceptions of what he said probably somewhat based on their own bias of the situation. Not much different than the fans.
The NY Post included the full Jeter quote in their article that shows Jeter knows his words will be twisted to serve peoples bias:
“I don’t know Manny well, off the field. I know him from playing against him. But I don’t think people have problems fitting in,” Jeter said. “So that won’t be a headline tomorrow that I said Manny’s not going to fit in fine, right?”
Happy and Healthy Holidays to you and yours. I love Christmas but it really was more fun when I was a kid and someone else did all the work.
This Jeter thing is all about the perspective you take when reading (and writing it). It doesn’t that the Yankees don’t need him specifically. What he does is what he always does – talks about the guys on the team and supports them.
If he comes out and says “yeah the offense is terrible and really need help” then he takes a shot at his guys. If they don’t get Manny or Tex his teammates will be like “well the captain doesn’t think that we are good enough.” So it’s smart to say the offense is fine (just like cash has been saying for the most part).
What is said by Jetes is that the Yankees clubhouse has all kinds of characters and that Manny would most likely fit it. For what’s worth all the papers today say something different about the exact same story.
I love Christmas but it really was more fun when I was a kid and someone else did all the work.
Amen to that!!!!!!
And Amen to the Post for including that part of what Jeter said. Jeter does know the score, doesn’t he, after all these years in NY.
*What is said by Jetes is that the Yankees clubhouse has all kinds of characters and that Manny would most likely fit it. For what’s worth all the papers today say something different about the exact same story.*
very true. its all about the mindset the reader has when reading the quotes, or the spin the paper wants to portray about a story as the reporter writes it.
“Jeter does know the score, doesn’t he, after all these years in NY.”
That’s one of the biggest benefits of being homegrown in the Yankee system. You get to see other people stick their foot in their mouth for a few years before anyone cares what you think so when they do you know what not to say. Big advantage that free agents who come into NY as stars haven’t been privilege to.
well if the reports of the dc offer going up are true, then boras pretty much has to start negotiating a deal with them, or it will be obvious to everyone that tex isnt taking thier money no matter what, which will kill his ability to play off the Nats offer.
question for you jets fans, if you had the option of swapping QB’s with the ‘phins for sunday’s game, would u?
I just hope Arod doesn’t have ANYTHING to say about Manny, I can’t imagine how badly the media and “fans” would spin that, whatever he says!
Interesting take on the Patriots situation this morning by Eric Kuselias(ESPN):
Given that:
Matt Cassel is 11-5 in his first season since high school
No guarantee of Brady’s health
They can’t keep both next year
Brady could get you 2 No 1 picks and cap relief
Should the Pats consider trading Brady and re-signing Cassel? Any thoughts?
ARod: “Manny is a good hitter”
NY Post: “ARod: Manny is not a great hitter”
“ARod: “Manny is a good hitter”
NY Post: “ARod: Manny is not a great hitter””
OR
Arod: “Manny is the greatest hitter I have seen”
NY Post: “Arod slams Jeter”
I hate Eric Kuselias.
“Should the Pats consider trading Brady and re-signing Cassel?”
no way. unless the medical ppl say he’s going to be damaged goods. cassel has been nice, and we’ll soon find out how good a PS QB he is, but brady is way better than cassel and at 32 still should have 5 or more years of prime play.
*32 still should have 5 or more years of prime play.*
not to pick on you Y’s Guy, but this here is the money quote.
Brady is already on the wrong side of 30 years old, playing maybe the most demanding position in the highest impact/contact professional sport, yet he’s got 5 good years left in his prime.
Mark Teixeira is on the right side of 30 years old, plays a mostly stationary position in a non-contact sport, and he’s already being referred to as potentially past his prime by the time he hits the middle of his new contract, where he would be about 33 years old, give or take a couple of months.
amazing.
“we’ll soon find out how good a PS QB he is”
Maybe. Hopefully not.
look out for the wanger this year! hiding behind cc and before aj, he’s the guy ppl arent going to be concentrating on.
he is gonna win 23 this year!
“Somebody said that Ichiro’s contract is a bad contract. He has missed a grand total of 16 games in 8 seasons and for all you math people at home, 2 games missed per season on average.”
I’ll take the bait. Ichiro’s health is certainly one of his good qualities. But does that mean he’s worth what he’s owed? Let’s see.
“His contract earns him 17 mil per season for 4 more seasons. He will be turning the same age in the last year of his deal as Tex and Manny will in theirs.”
Bad start right there, as you generally want to avoid paying a player $17 million a year through his late 30s unless he brings something exceptional to the table. Does Ichiro do that?
“The difference is he’ll cost less per year and fills the Yankees need for a 3 hitter this season and a leadoff hitter after Damon leaves. He’s also capable of playing CF for 1 or 2 more years and shifting to LF whenever Jackson is ready.”
He costs less per year than Manny or Teixeira, but he’s also a vastly inferior player to either of them. He doesn’t have anything near Manny’s or Teixeira’s bat and he doesn’t play a position where we have a long-term need. His speed would make him a good leadoff man for now, but isn’t it likely he will lose a step or two as he passes 35?
Ichiro has an ok bat for CF, but, as you say, the Yankees long-term plan should be to put Jackson there. It would make a lot more sense of the Yankees to trade for Cameron to fill the position for one year than pick up an expensive contract that we might not have a use for in 2010.
Ichiro’s bat is not nearly enough to make him a passable option in LF. He has no power whatsoever. If we want to spend $17 million a year on a player, I’m sure we can find a LF who hits a lot better than Ichiro. Like Dunn, for example (who would probably cost a lot less), or even Manny. While I’m no fan of Manny’s defense, I’d much rather have him as our LF than Ichiro.
“If the Yankees can pull off a reasonable trade for Ichiro, then we’re the team to beat.”
The fact that we would have to trade for Ichiro makes the idea of getting him even worse. Seattle won’t just give him away. So we would not only saddle ourselves with a fairly large contract for an aging player who doesn’t fill a long-term need and doesn’t hit like a corner OF, but we would give up prospects to do it. No thanks.
how did my brady comment turn to tex? are you suggesting that nfl QB’s are done at 32? the evidence points to the contrary, nfl QB’s do not tend to break down like that and even when thier skills diminish, thier judgement and experience is still far more valuable than those of a rookie with superior atheletic skills(and cassel isnt even all that atheletic).
comparing the degradation of a 1st baseman to that of an nfl QB has no value.
*The fact that we would have to trade for Ichiro makes the idea of getting him even worse.*
i disagree with the idea that having to trade players for Ichiro = bad in theory.
ill trade players, i just wont give them blue chippers like Hughes or Montero.
they want a package around IPK? i’m ok with that.
i dont love his contract, but you could throw him in CF or RF for the duration of that deal and he’ll be a productive player.
Getting Ichiro would be a bad idea. He isn’t even that good in CF.
does ichiro want to come to the east coast? I thought he was partial to the west??
*methinks ichiro is still better than melky/gardner tandem and an excellent leadoff hitter to boot*
*how did my brady comment turn to tex?*
thats why i said, sorry to pick on you, didnt mean to attack what you said.
it was more of a point of general perception that an NFL QB can play thru his prime and be 37-38 years old, yet a MLB player of equal athletic ability can be labeled out of his prime at 32-33 years old in a much less demanding sport.
I think trading Brady would be insane. Cassel has done a fine job this year, but don’t get him confused with a guy on the path to Canton. Maybe the Jets can sign Cassel after the human interception machine returns to Misissippi.
I stil want Tex in pinstripes. He helps offensively and defensively and is not yet 29. I’m surprised he hasn’t been a higher priority, but that’s show biz. If that means no Pettite, so be it.
If no Tex, then I’d like to see them get Pettite, Baldelli and Wigginton to round out the roster. While they still would not have the ideal “3″ hitter the Yanks would have a deeper, younger and more athletic team in 2009… and that’s the plan, right?
speaking of diminished QB’s, how about that brett favre? after this season there isnt likely to be quite as much coverage of his will-i-retire-or-wont-i crap this offseason.
who cares now?
“does ichiro want to come to the east coast? I thought he was partial to the west??”
well, thats a question that noonereally knows the answer to. it was believed that before he signed his extention in Seattle that he was rumored to be considering the Yankees as one of the only other teams he would play for.
but if you trade Nady and IPK and get Ichiro back, that to me is a good deal.
play Gardner in CF, Damon in LF, and Ichiro in RF and you’ve got yourself an excellent defensive OF. they certainly will cover a ton of ground.
*but if you trade Nady and IPK and get Ichiro back, that to me is a good deal.*
i would try to get a minor leaguer maybe in return with Ichiro, or maybe subsititue IPK with another lesser pitcher is they take Nady… you can play with the package.
point being, yeah, i would trade players for Ichiro, not just blue chippers.
but of course, all this discussion really means nothing, because the M’s wouldnt trade him for anything less anyway.
*not just blue chippers*
just not blue chippers.
Didn’t Wigginton already sign somewhere?
Here’s a question for the two of you that has been brought up many times over at Pete’s Yankees blog:
*Is Chien Ming Wang an ace?*
There are debates on both sides:
*Favor:*
1. 46 wins since 2006 are tied for the third-most in the American League and eighth-most in the Majors.
2. .754 combined winning percentage over the last three seasons (2006-08) is the second-highest in the Majors.
3. He recorded back-to-back seasons with 19 wins in 2006 and 2007 and probably in 2008 if he hadn’t gotten hurt.
4. In his 85th career start, Wang became the third-fastest Major League pitcher in the last 50 years to reach 50 career wins behind Dwight Gooden (82nd start) and Ron Guidry (82nd start).
5. In his starts, he normally goes deep into games (7+ innings per start).
*Against:*
1. He’s not a strike out pitcher, he’s a contact/ground ball pitcher.
2. His arsenal has only one plus pitch (sinker).
3. If his sinker is not on that day, he gets hammered.
So what is an ace by definition? Is it defined by wins or strikeouts? Can you be a high strikeout pitcher but still not be a winning pitcher? Can you be a non-SO pitcher and still be a ace? By extension, if Wang goes his entire career, winning 18, 19, or 20+ games a season but averaging only 3 or 4 strikeouts a game, does that mean he was not an ace? What’s your take?
*after this season there isnt likely to be quite as much coverage of his will-i-retire-or-wont-i crap this offseason.*
i agree but dont ever underestimate the power of ESPN, Y’s Guy.
and this time, Farve will be a true FA, right? or he can be traded to teams like Minnesota, where he wanted to go this year but the Packers wouldnt trade him to.
you never know… but yeah, he’s looked AWFUL.
i wouldnt consider a basebal player past his prime at 32. i havent looked at any studies, but when you look at the #’s for alot of big stars, you see them start to lag at about 34 years old. there are tons of exceptions like hamerin hank or eddie murray, but generally right around the 34-35 mark you see a dropoff.
nope – wiggy is still a free agent. The pirates expressed interest as did the twin but none have followed through.
wang is an ace. he takes the ball, you figure you’re gonna win. thats an ace.
that being said, i think the whole concept is overblown. aj burnett may be our #3, but if he pitches FOR us like he pitched AGAINST us, he’s an ace too. the guy threw a no-no.
On the Patriots, they should trade both Brady and Cassell.
Let the franchise fold….
Hey Pete…:)
Whatever happens with Manny, he’ll get into the HOF but it’s difficult to think of him standing at a podium with a “B” on his hat and representing a city he never liked.
He could be a no-show first.
Wang could go anywere from 1,2,3, depending on who is in your rotation. With us I see him and AJ as easily 2-3, or 3-2 meaning either one could be in that slot.
“wouldnt consider a basebal player past his prime at 32. i havent looked at any studies, but when you look at the #’s for alot of big stars, you see them start to lag at about 34 years old. there are tons of exceptions like hamerin hank or eddie murray, but generally right around the 34-35 mark you see a dropoff.”
32 is past their primes. Studies show that players start to decline after age 31
With Joba, we actually have 4, Ace’s on the staff…
Hi Laura/Trisha:
This is for you with those ace’s it would be nice to give them great run support, yes with you know who…
32 is past their primes. Studies show that players start to decline after age 31
and by that logic, if we sign Teixeira for 8 years, we only get 3 of his prime years and 5 of his decline years.
We will be punished with another giambi contract
*Studies show that players start to decline after age 31*
what studies?
No. AVG OPS HR AB/HR High Peak
Age 18-20 37 .269 .764 21 28.8 11 0
Age 21 43 .279 .802 21 28.2 15 0
Age 22 68 .277 .815 25 24.2 32 0
Age 23 89 .279 .830 27 22.4 50 2
Age 24 97 .285 .847 27 22.2 55 10
Age 25 98 .288 .862 29 20.8 56 6
Age 26 98 .289 .881 31 19.5 49 13
Age 27 98 .289 .879 30 19.7 32 7
Age 28 95 .288 .893 32 18.5 34 15
Age 29 93 .288 .887 32 18.6 20 10
Age 30 88 .290 .888 31 19.1 16 8
Age 31 81 .291 .894 32 18.9 15 11
Age 32 69 .284 .880 31 19.3 9 5
Age 33 65 .284 .867 29 20.4 5 3
Age 34 56 .278 .864 31 19.2 6 5
Age 35 44 .276 .858 30 19.9 2 0
Age 36 31 .269 .852 32 18.9 1 1
Age 37 24 .282 .887 34 17.7 2 2
Age 38 18 .278 .852 28 21.4 1 0
Age 39-42 25 .273 .844 28 21.6 2 2
who’s included in the study? who performed the study? what data are they using?
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=age27myth
“In order to do that, I collected lifetime statistics — broken down by year and age — of 100 players from the past decade. The players selected were the ones who hit the most home runs in the past 10 seasons. No, it doesn’t cover the entire gamut of players. Still, considering that the age-27 theory is so often applied to the possibility of bursts in a hitter’s power, it’s a fairly appropriate sampling. Included is every hitter who has hit at least 138 home runs since Opening Day 1998, and that’s a fairly generous sample size.
Collecting the data and sorting it by age in each season of each player’s career — determined by his age as of April 1 that year — I totaled all numbers accrued by those 100 hitters and scaled them to 600 at-bats. That provides a handy comparison of what the average player in the study would have accomplished granted full-time at-bats at that age.”
I don’t buy the study, because there are exceptions to every age..
“I don’t buy the study, because there are exceptions to every age..”
Of course there are exceptions, but the data clearly shows that players start to decline at age 32. Numbers dont lie, perceptions does.
The question is decline from what level? If you’ve got a player like ARod who is excellent, or Pujols who is even more excellent, even in decline they are going to be better than someone who is just about good.
It’s a judgment call on an individual basis, I think.
Hey, EVERYONE starts to decline in some capacity beginning in their 30’s. Even – no, especially – us mere mortals!
*I don’t buy the study, because there are exceptions to every age..*
and its only one study. you would have to think before we can totally debunk the idea of “past their prime,” youd have to collect and analyze more than one man’s study.
but even so, I dont even see a necessarily large, precipitous dropoff from age 31 to the following years.
the study even showed that players at age 37 slugged as much that season than the average showed at age 31.
if anything, id say after looking at the chart quickly, the analysis would be questionable of showing true precipitous decline in a player’s prime after age 31, or older than 32.
On Jeter as the Captain:
He is the perfect choice, the Yanks believed that as well, they had other options, but chose him.
I won’t try to speculate what he said by reading between the lines. Jeter never has said anything openly negative or positive about a situation that isn’t a reality, the person, place or thing not being a Yank.
Remember when A-rod came and they said they won’t be able to co-exist..just a thought…
I’m in support of the Yanks if they get Manny, if not there are other scenarios other bloggers have said, I think would be good as well.
To me Manny is the best option in yrs/and the best bang for our buck..absolutely agree there is enough baggage to fill a 747…I just think it’s worth the risk..IMO
I don’t support the Dunn move, do I think it’s the worst no, but I would rather have Abrue before him..
Wang should be happy with his new deal – He pitched in 15 games and got over a 20% raise!
“even in decline they are going to be better than someone who is just about good.”
I agree 100%
The very good players are better for longer, but they do decline, eventually. Thoese players end up making the HOF, but not everyone is a hall of fame player…
O/T
I won the LoHud Fantasy Football league championship, and that was despite playing the Jets defense all season!
TurnTwo,
I admit Nady + IPK for Ichiro is reasonable on our end. I’m not so sure Seattle would take it unless they are absolutely desperate to rid themselves of Ichiro. They have no need for a largely fungible player like Nady. IPK is still a question mark. Would they trade the face of their franchise for these players?
Ichiro is still an above-average player in certain respects, but the bottom line is he’s getting paid like he’s a good CF, and it would be a waste of money to put him in a corner OF spot. I wouldn’t sign him as a FA, so the thought of trading for him is even less appealing to me.
I totally against trading any of the young pitchers and a guy that fits on the team already, when you can sign a FA.
The problem with this is it doesn’t consider the seroid era. Did steroid use/abuse lead some to decline more quickly from overuse? Did it artificially prop up others?
Also why do these guys improve from age 36 to 37?
Did they change leagues/teams, thus altering the data?
Fun to play with numbers, but this research proves nothing
“and its only one study. ”
Provide another study to prove your point. And you realize that the sample size for players that are 38 is very small. And thus, not reliable…
*Would they trade the face of their franchise for these players?*
no, which is what i said before. the M’s wouldnt do that, even though its prob more than fair if they want to really rebuild, and shed salary and player commitments.
*Provide another study to prove your point.*
dont have one, which is why i was asking for the report or reports you were referring to.
i do know you cant make definitive conclusions based on one study, though. find me a couple more, and you might be able to convince me otherwise.
and like i said, that study in itself was inconclusive, because it showed that players slugged as well at 37 than at 31, and while there was decline, i dont know if it was stark enough to say that 32 is past a players prime.
does that mean they are still in their prime at 37? of course not… but thats the type of data that should make you pause, and want to establish more data in order to reach a true conclusion with regards to the hypothesis.
When did Ichiro go on the trade market? How does this team get younger if it trades for a 35-year-old CF with four years left on his contract? Makes no sense at any level.
“no, which is what i said before. the M’s wouldnt do that, even though its prob more than fair if they want to really rebuild, and shed salary and player commitments.”
You certainly did write that and I missed it somehow.
*You certainly did write that and I missed it somehow.*
its cool. we’re on the same wavelength.
*When did Ichiro go on the trade market?*
he hasnt… just board speculation from what i could tell.
“and like i said, that study in itself was inconclusive, because it showed that players slugged as well at 37 than at 31, and while there was decline, i dont know if it was stark enough to say that 32 is past a players prime.”
if you would have read the study, you would have realized how he got his numbers:
“In order to do that, I collected lifetime statistics—broken down by year and age—of 100 players from the past decade. The players selected were the ones who hit the most home runs in the past 10 seasons…Included is every hitter who has hit at least 138 home runs since Opening Day 1998, and that’s a fairly generous sample size.”
So, he followed 100 players for 10 seasons since 1998. During that time there was a certain 37 year old who hit 72 homeruns due to phd. Considering his 72 homeruns and added that the sample was small (24) compared to the rest of the samples, a number like that would show up. But the wieght it carries would be smaller because its considered an outlier.
“With Joba, we actually have 4, Ace’s on the staff…”
I think that this point is truly overlooked. We are going in to this season for what is the first time in a while with the mindset, “(Insert any starter that we have’s name here) has the potential to go nine today.” I mean most of us forget, Hughes was projected to be a top-end starter at one time. Joba could strike out 20, Burnett could strike out 20, CC could strike out 20, Wang could.. well.. get 20 ground balls in a game.. My point is, of the many things that I have read while catching up on the posts this morning, the most shocking was “without offense, we are destined to be a 3rd place finisher in the AL East.” I don’t see destined, or even probable being an appropriate description of our situation, I don’t see a day where we can’t match up in the SP category, whether it ends up being Hughes or Pettitte as our “5″ (yes I realize Joba will be 5 because of the Innings limit). We can win the games where we score 2-4 runs a game. Pitching is a lot of this game, I am not saying that we are going to not need run support, but A-Rod is efficient. Remember, it’s an odd year.. Our OF defense would be superb if the season started today.. Our pen is almost lights out.. Matsui was our most consistent hitter before he got injured, it’s hard to remember for some because we all want instant gratification. Nady could easily hit .300 this year. Cano could easily do the same.. and Swisher will, IMO, be a PERFECT back of the line-up guy. Give the kids a chance, whether it’s Gardner or Melky sitting on the pine, that’s one HECK of a defensive replacement. And even if Gardner ends up being a pinch-runner he can absolutely TEAR IT UP on the base paths. All I am saying is, whether we get Manny, Tex, Dunn, Burrell, Giambi, or no one, for the first time in a while I am absolutely content with every part of how we are now.. (I am not saying it would not be awesome to sign one of them, just that I think we have every chance to win the way we are.) I didn’t even go into our boy Molina as a BACK UP catcher.. please try to steal a base someone..
*if you would have read the study, you would have realized how he got his numbers*
yeah, i read it. i’m not disputing where he got the numbers from, and you have to start somewhere for a study like this… although like it was also said, it doesnt take into consideration individual factors such as steroid or PED use, personal training programs and organizational training methods, etc.
*But the wieght it carries would be smaller because its considered an outlier.*
correct, but its only data from one study. again, find me some more numbers, and you can convince me… but otherwise, it makes me want to pause, and do more research before saying conclusively that a player is past their prime at 32.
Re: Ichiro
“I wouldn’t sign him as a FA, so the thought of trading for him is even less appealing to me.”
Career .331 hitter.
His age throughout the duration of his current contract (4 years) is nearly irrelevant considering he has missed only 16 games over 8 seasons.
That track record isn’t a result of dumb luck or statistical anomalies but an achievement based on extremely hard work, focus and training.
What does that indicate about his longevity?
Typical or atypical compared to other ballplayers?
I’ll take an OPS+ of 117 any day anywhere in the outfield if I’m getting 40 stolen bases.
117+ is inferior to Manny and Tex but can Manny and/or Tex bat leadoff and steal 40 bases?
Right now CF is the only position where a significant upgrade can be made. Going from Melky to Ichiro in CF is a far more drastic improvement than going from Matsui to Manny or Swisher to Teixeira.
All that being said, I’d be shocked if the Mariners ever considered dealing the face of their franchise and pretty much the only ticket seller on their team.
But don’t go knocking a leadoff hitter with a career OPS of 117+ combined with a .331 BA, 40 SB potential and gold glove caliber defense.
We need more speed and athleticism on this team – look at the Rays.
Yet you wouldn’t like the idea of signing Ichiro never mind trading for him.
I guess you don’t mind station-to-station offense. That really seems to be the way to win in the postseason, at least for us since 2004.
Make no mistake about Wang’s ability. If he wanted to be a strikeout pitcher, h could. He gets his outs with a lot fewer pitches than the strikouts take. The continual knock on him is about the lack of strikeouts. Watch him pitch. If he absolutely need a strikeout, he can get them.
SamVa:
I agree, I’m just saying why not get that hitter and leave no, shoulda, coulda, woulda scenarios…
agreed, GB. thats actually a knock on Peavy, that he has the great stuff and tries to strike everyone out instead of sometimes pitching to contact and let your defense do some work behind you to save some of those bullets.
there is no doubt in my mind: the trio of Sabathia, Wang, and Burnett is among the best top 3 of any rotation in the league.
TurnTwo
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
agreed, GB. thats actually a knock on Peavy, that he has the great stuff and tries to strike everyone out instead of sometimes pitching to contact and let your defense do some work behind you to save some of those bullets.
there is no doubt in my mind: the trio of Sabathia, Wang, and Burnett is among the best top 3 of any rotation in the league.
————————————————————
If they all stay healthy and the offense with FAs and the kids on he way come together, those four have a chance to do something that hasn’t happened since the 1971 Orioles…4 20 game winners on on team.
Tim-
I see your point and I agree with it.. it just shocked me to read earlier that someone thought we were a 3rd place team in the AL east.. I mean we COULD be a 3rd place team, but so could Boston or Tampa Bay.. The only difference between us and them, (besides that their farm systems are ridiculous) is that their “shoulda, coulda, woulda scenarios” proved successful.. I mean not trying to play the what if game here, but how differently would this offseason have gone had Cano hit .320, Posada was his usual self, Matsui hadn’t gotten injured, and Hughes and Kennedy each won 10-15 games with a respectable ERA? We would have been the team to beat going into the offseason.. It just so happens that Boston’s Farm worked out better than ours, they got the timely hits when they needed them.. and Dice-K some how? only lost 3-4 games? We will see how this year plays out.. I just think that we could win it the way our team is now..
I take this moment to break from work and remind the Yankee front office that opportunity knocks right now. MAKE TEX AN OFFER.
4 20 game winners on ***one*** team.
GB7 ah your on…. remember a few days ago you asked me about that Mexican Jorge that the Yankees signed ?
GB7-
Are you talking of Palmer, Cuellar, Dobson, & McNally?
“If they all stay healthy and the offense with FAs and the kids on he way come together, those four have a chance to do something that hasn’t happened since the 1971 Orioles…4 20 game winners on on team.”
Not sure this will ever happen again…pitching has changed too much. The Orioles had a four man rotation…not five like teams use today. Middle relief was something that usually happened in blowout games…now its a science and starters are not allowed to hang around when only trailing by a couple of runs. I do think they are each capable of winning 20…just not all in the same year.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/12/23/2008-12-23_clemens_former_trainer_mcnamee_sues_pitc.html
OH Clemens!! You are the biggest loser ever!
Let me know when your back on the computer Mr.Robot name
Buddy Biancalana
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:11 am
GB7-
Are you talking of Palmer, Cuellar, Dobson, & McNally?
————————————————————
Yep. That was one Hell of a rotation backed by a very good bullpen.
SamVa:
Yeah, I’m wasn’t really excited about the CF move glad it didn’t happen..Damon, Melky and Gardner are fine IMO fo 1yr..
The Manny Tex thing, Tex actually would be best if he would take the same contract CC sign an opt out after 3yrs, he would help offensively and his defense, but it’s Scott B, the agent, not sure were Tex’s head is, I believ it’s the money and yrs.
Now Manny I believe could be had for 3yrs, he provides to the offense, what Tex would the defense..and IMO we could live with the CF/LF rotation for 1 more year.
But I to for the 1st time since 2001…could live with what we have…I just think the hitter really tips the scale…
the clemens thing is crazy. he is actually dragging his own name through the mud by continuing his lawsuit. what he should be doing is separating himself from the mitchell/mcnamee situation as quickly as possible, so that people start thinking of him as a former great instead of as a perjerer.
stupid is as stupid does.
Brandon (Cash on Tex “Not us” , CC & AJ are Yankees!)…”Bring on Dunn and Sheets!”
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
GB7 ah your on…. remember a few days ago you asked me about that Mexican Jorge that the Yankees signed ?
————————————————————
Yes. Jorge A. Vazquez. I guess I’ll need to wait until the Sporting News Register comes ot and look at his numbers. Looks like a good bat. He’s been assigned to Trenton, right now. The Mexican League appears to be a low AAA or high AA league. I just can’t find any good info on his numbers.
Oh good let me get this out already. This is according to some people that I’ve spoken to.
Jorge Vazquez who’s nickname is “El Chato” is described as a monster bat. One report from a poster
“I saw him play last year when I was in Cancun on vaca. He hit a bomb to straight center. I swear it had to be near 500ft. He has got mad power. And he does look like Pujols. He hits like him too.”
“Everyone knows El Chato in Mexico. He is like A-Rod here. Miranda has nothing on him. Miranda has the power swing without all the power. Jorge hits for incredible power and average. In the AAA Mexican summer league: ‘05=.380/33 in 71 games, ‘06= .360/31 in 75 games. ‘07=.325/17 in 50 games, ‘08= .340/18 in 54 games. The Yankees are keeping a low profile on him, but he is not just some prospect, he is major league ready.”
That’s according to that poster.
“In the Mex Pacific winter league he was going for the Triple Crown against a lot of Major League experienced players. He was consistantly between .360 and .370 all season until the last week or so. He ended at .350. There is only five players hitting over .300. He led in HR all the way thru until he left the team after he signed with the Yanks.”
“I know from a sorce that if he wants, he will start for Mexico in the Classic. He is going to be great, you heard it hear first. ‘El Destructor’ is coming!! (thats his other nickname)”
Here’s what the poster said about his glove at 1B
“Jorge has good hands at first. He is not golden glove, but good. He used to be a catcher until he had back problems, he has a very good arm. He has played a little 3b and LF.”
http://www.tomateros.com.mx/
The Pujols looking guy at the bottom that’s Jorge.
“If they all stay healthy and the offense with FAs and the kids on he way come together, those four have a chance to do something that hasn’t happened since the 1971 Orioles…4 20 game winners on on team.”
any one of the four could win 20, but i doubt if even two will just because of the probability problems of the 5 man rotation. these pitchers don’t get enough starts to roll the dice enough to pick up those last few wins. look how long it took mussina to do it.
it was much easier to win 20 with a four man rotation, but that said, those orioles staffs were amazing. i had the good luck to catch mike cuellar in a bullpen session( he won 20 in ‘71) long after his career was over . after about twenty pitches, i walked up to him and said “who are you”?
he had this arsenal of pitches that he could throw for strikes at will and still had a live arm. he was probably 50 years old at the time.
with the way lefty one batter specialists are so valuable nowadays, i’m not sure he couldn’t get out a hitter or two today.
brandon.
the dude in white?
The first thing you notice about him before the numbers is he is sponsored already by Gatorade. You don’t get that kind of pub unless there is something special about you.
more studies:
A 2002 study by Bowling Green State University statistician Jim Albert examined the productivity of hitters born in six different decades (1910s through 1960s)
Players Average age
born in peak year
1910s 28.0
1920s 28.6
1930s 27.1
1940s 28.9
1950s 28.7
1960s 29.8
_______________________________________________
In his 1982 Baseball Abstract, James examined the career statistics of 502 hitters born in the 1930s and found that, on average, they had their best overall year at 27. He argued that players typically “attain their greatest value before the 28-32 period even begins, are declining throughout that age range and have lost nearly half of their peak value by the time it ends.”
________________________________________________________
“brandon.
the dude in white?”
Yeh him.
“Career .331 hitter.”
With no power, which is a big problem for a corner OF. I’m not saying he’s a bad hitter.
“His age throughout the duration of his current contract (4 years) is nearly irrelevant considering he has missed only 16 games over 8 seasons.”
He might start missing games or having trouble staying in the field as he gets older. That would be my concern, anyway. Look at Damon.
“I’ll take an OPS+ of 117 any day anywhere in the outfield if I’m getting 40 stolen bases. 117+ is inferior to Manny and Tex but can Manny and/or Tex bat leadoff and steal 40 bases?”
I think he will slow down over the next four years. If that happens, not only will his steals drop, but his average will drop as well. Since he doesn’t draw a lot of walks and has little power, his overall value would plummet.
“Right now CF is the only position where a significant upgrade can be made. Going from Melky to Ichiro in CF is a far more drastic improvement than going from Matsui to Manny or Swisher to Teixeira.”
It’s unquestionably true that Ichiro would be a major improvement over Melky. But Manny or Teixeira would be massive upgrades too. And they would not be in danger of blocking our top CF prospect. Why not just take Cameron for a year and revisit the Ichiro situation in 2010 if Jackson isn’t ready?
“But don’t go knocking a leadoff hitter with a career OPS of 117+ combined with a .331 BA, 40 SB potential and gold glove caliber defense.”
You’re right, I won’t knock him. He’s very valuable. I just disagree that his contract is a good investment for the Yankees at this time.
“We need more speed and athleticism on this team – look at the Rays.”
I agree. Which is why I don’t want to sign a 34 year old OF for four years.
“Yet you wouldn’t like the idea of signing Ichiro never mind trading for him. I guess you don’t mind station-to-station offense. That really seems to be the way to win in the postseason, at least for us since 2004.”
I like players with high OBP and SLG, which is why I support signing Dunn and Teixeira, and why I’d rather sign Manny than trade for and pay Ichiro.
Where we basically disagree is on whether Ichiro will age well. You believe he will be substantially the same player in three or four years that he is now. I believe he will slow down and end up as another corner OF we have little use for. You could certainly be right, but I don’t want the Yankees to lose players and spend $68 million to take that risk on a player who only fills a short-term need.
*A 2002 study by Bowling Green State University statistician Jim Albert examined the productivity of hitters born in six different decades (1910s through 1960s)*
link?
he does look like Pujols, although I cant see his face but the beard certainly does look like him. hopefully we could see him up as a september call up this year if he does really good in AA/A.
Ed he was Aceves teammate so someone was watching both of them on the Yankees FO.
looks like we’ll finally have a conclusion:
“According to Thom Loverro of the Washington Times, “there will be an announcement today regarding the future of free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.” Loverro says there are strong indications the Red Sox will be the victor, though it’s unclear whether those indications are based on inside information.”
and, not for nothing, but then the rumors that Manny wont sign until after Tex signs are technically correct… timing has Manny in Brazil now, and will come back and make an announcement when he gets back to the States, which will certainly be after today.
hey- just saying.
looks like we’ll finally have a conclusion:
“According to Thom Loverro of the Washington Times, “there will be an announcement today regarding the future of free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.” Loverro says there are strong indications the Red Sox will be the victor, though it’s unclear whether those indications are based on inside information.”
and, not for nothing, but then the rumors that Manny wont sign until after Tex signs are technically correct… timing has Manny in Brazil now, and will come back and make an announcement when he gets back to the States, which will certainly be after today.
hey- just saying.
the tex thing has to move today. the nats have basically put down a blank check and told boros to fill in the years. boras cant ignore them anymore, if he doesnt start working out a contract with dc, then he’s saying that thier money is no good here, that tex just isnt going there, which would be telling the sox they are the only real suitors.
i say expect an announcement (finnaly) tomorrow night or christmas.
i think he’s going to take the money and go to dc (look for 9/195) with an opt out after 3 years (at which time the yankees will get to decide on tex vs. cc once again)
“Ed he was Aceves teammate so someone was watching both of them on the Yankees FO.”
“In his 1982 Baseball Abstract, James examined the career statistics of 502 hitters born in the 1930s and found that, on average, they had their best overall year at 27. ”
of course, whitey ford, yogi, and mickey( maybe not mickey) were selling clothes in the winters too to supplement their salaries. i don’t think they were doing much working out the way almost all players do now.
ball players atage 30 in say 1965 , were in very different condition than ball players are now at age 30 , so i don’t know if that bill james study is that relevant today. todays age32 might be 1965’s age 27.
Thanks, Brandon. That’s some of the things I was looking for. It’s curious tht anybody with talent could stay hidden away that long. It will be interesting to follow him this year, if fo no other reason than curiosity. I’d settle for Ron Blomberg or Nick Johnson with health to pt on 1st base, right now. Since I can’t speak or read Spanish beyond taco and si’, maybe you could post some things every so often. Much appreciaed.
Teixeira announcement will be:
“The business is going. Thought you all should know. Thank you, happy holidays.”
Much appreciated
*ball players atage 30 in say 1965 , were in very different condition than ball players are now at age 30 , so i don’t know if that bill james study is that relevant today. todays age32 might be 1965’s age 27.*
good point, too.
“I’d settle for Ron Blomberg or **Nick Johnson** with health to pt on 1st base, right now. ”
GB, wow, this is the first time i ever see you type that. Welcome to the club of acquiring Nick the Stick. lol
Him, some latin scout or the computer like they did w/ Edwar.
There is a poll on the bottom of the pg. asking if the fans think he’s going to win the triple crown in that league.
Brandon,
I voted already. Though I can’t speak or read spanish, I totally understood that question. lol
Pete will think I’m insane, but I still have hope that the news TurnTwo relays, if true, will be that the Yankees signed Teixeira.
here is another one, on recent player and when they peak:
Using the Lahman database, I used a sample of every player in MLB that had 300 at-bats in a season from 1980-2003. If a player failed to get 300 ABs in a season, he was dropped from the analysis for that season and the season that followed (because I am using lags), but he was then returned when he had 300 ABs. I picked this time period because, I am not interested in aging patterns from the past at this moment. Using Stata I estimated the following equation using the xtregar command (this is basically an OLS estimate with a correction for first-order autocorrelation). The unit of observation is a player in a season.
OPS+ = B1 (Age) + B2 (Age^2) + B3 (Lag of OPS+) + B4 (League OPS for that year) + V (player constants) + e
OPS+ is simple the OPS of a player relative to the average OPS of the league in that year. This measure is NOT park-adjusted. V is a vector of fixed effects to control for individual player attributes. I’ll spare presenting the numerical results for the moment, but I will tell you that the peak age of OPS + for the sample is about 29.
No problem GB.
Here’s a clearer pic of him after on of his bombs to RF
http://i41.tinypic.com/30lcmis.jpg
randy l
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:31 am
“If they all stay healthy and the offense with FAs and the kids on he way come together, those four have a chance to do something that hasn’t happened since the 1971 Orioles…4 20 game winners on on team.”
any one of the four could win 20, but i doubt if even two will just because of the probability problems of the 5 man rotation. these pitchers don’t get enough starts to roll the dice enough to pick up those last few wins. look how long it took mussina to do it.
it was much easier to win 20 with a four man rotation, but that said, those orioles staffs were amazing. i had the good luck to catch mike cuellar in a bullpen session( he won 20 in ‘71) long after his career was over . after about twenty pitches, i walked up to him and said “who are you”?
he had this arsenal of pitches that he could throw for strikes at will and still had a live arm. he was probably 50 years old at the time.
with the way lefty one batter specialists are so valuable nowadays, i’m not sure he couldn’t get out a hitter or two today.
————————————————————
I onlysaid they had chance. They have that kind of talent. There isn’t a potentially better 5 man rotation in baseball when Pettitte is added in this year, and Hughes, next year. Tampa perhaps, depending on the health of contnued Kazmir.
we wont know when to look for a drop off from our current, better conditioned baseball players till we get some distance from the steroid era, which seemed to prolong player’s prime seasons.
At this point, I think its safe to say there isn’t a single member of the media, from Red Sox employee of the Year Peter Gammons, to Buster Olney, to Scott Boras flack Jon Heyman that KNOWS what’s going on with Tex.
ANYBODY can say, “I think he will sign with the Red Sox” or, “I think he will sign with the Nationals”.
Hell, at this point, you can say, “I think he will sign with (fill in the blank)”, and be just as accurate as guys who get paid to provide INFORMATION.
Its really embarrassing to read the swill some of these guys have written on this subject.
Especially, when it comes to writing about the Yankees “interest” in him.
They have NEVER made him an offer. Yet, some of these “esteemed” columnists insist they have. They are wrong.
All that does is dust up the fan base and that’s precisely why they do it.
Its a shame, really. There is no substitute for accurate information.
The rumor mongering these guys have done may be nice for 12 year olds who live by their every word.
But to folks in the business (like Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner, for example), it must drive them nuts to see things in print that have no factual basis whatsoever.
According to Thom Loverro of the Washington Times, “there will be an announcement today regarding the future of free agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.” Loverro says there are strong indications the Red Sox will be the victor, though it’s unclear whether those indications are based on inside information.
I KNEW it! If you want to get your deal done, you have to do it before everybody takes vacation XMAS eve and close shop. Tex wants it done before XMAS. Pleeeeease go to the Nats! Pleeeeease!
i think you guys are confusing the difference between predicting which is most likely to be a players best season and defining a players prime. i would define a players prime as being his most productive seasons, which imo runs from about 26 to 33.
more:
http://www.baseballnotebook.com/essay.asp?esource=e_022102.asp&topt=The%20Effects%20of%20Age%20on%20Hitting
and
http://www.stathead.com/bbeng/woolner/peakage.htm
and this guy’s study:
J.C. Bradbury is an economist and associate professor at Kennesaw State University in metropolitan Atlanta. He is the author of The Baseball Economist
concludes the following:
The results indicate that players of different quality age the same, except for the superstars (>120). While most other players peak at age 29, the superstars peak between 31 and 32.
Ed – CC and Wang, the Dynamite Duo. Get Dunn.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 am
“I’d settle for Ron Blomberg or Nick Johnson with health to pt on 1st base, right now. ”
GB, wow, this is the first time i ever see you type that. Welcome to the club of acquiring Nick the Stick. lol
————————————————————
WHOA, Mr. Ed. I didn’t say I wanted Nick Johnson now. Only that Johnson, had he ever stayed healthy was a pretty decent 1st baseman. I wasn’t as thrilled by his glove as most people, because, from what I saw, he wasn’t the best at digging balls out of the dirt. He tended to short arm too many of them. He could have been a really decent bat, though.
One other thing this subject.
If some of you think the Yankees were going to dance the dance with a Scott Boras client again after the Gerrit Cole fiasco this summer, you ain’t payin’ attention.
On the list of “things to do” in the off-season, I can assure you, getting lured into another jerk around game with a Scott Boras client was not on the Yankees agenda.
Tex is a very good player. He’s not a 20-22 million dollar a year player, and never will be, regardless of who signs him.
The Yankees correctly identified several things this off-season. Making an upgrade to their starting pitching was correctly identified as their major need.
They also assessed the arbitration market correctly, and saved themselves a ton of money.
They also correctly assessed the glut of corner OF/DH types and, if they so choose, will have options to pick from in January.
None of the above would have been possible had they spent their entire off-season getting jerked around by Scott Boras.
GB,
oh okay. gotcha.
This is the last pic of him that I’m posting
http://i40.tinypic.com/1236w3s.jpg
(as you can see strong hands on this one and he’s a two handed swinger that uses his hands very well)
Look for him on Team Mexico this WBC if the Yankees let him play. I would think that they would just to see how ML ready his bat really is.
“i think you guys are confusing the difference between predicting which is most likely to be a players best season and defining a players prime. i would define a players prime as being his most productive seasons, which imo runs from about 26 to 33.”
all i was saying all along that players tend to have their best years ages 28-32, as all the studies done on the subject conclude. They tend to peak aroound age 29-31 and then they start their decline.
Others here tend to disagree based, for whatever reason they might have, based on perception or feelings. Thats fine, but all studies tend to agree that players start to decline at age 32.
which, in my opinion, based on the data I have seen, signing Tex to a long term deal doesnt make much sense, because you are getting him for 2 to 3 years of his prime and then 5 to 6 years of his decline while paying him a ton of money, which would be similiar to what we did with Giambi
I think a lot of the Yankee Contract for Tex propaganda is also started by Gammons so if the Red Sox do in fact sign someone they can say “we got him over the Yankees” lol
*i would define a players prime as being his most productive seasons, which imo runs from about 26 to 33.*
i think that would be a generally accepted idea, yeah.
update >>>>>
Yay! Boston will be crippled with this contract for a decade and we will have Swish at first, playing for a modest price and playing a hard nosed game, giving the Yanks great fielding, a .300 average and about 12-15 HR per year.
gb7-
i agree that they all have the potential to do it and that makes for a very good staff. it’ll be interesting to see if the wins get contagious as the pitchers try to match or outdo each other in friendly competition.
*because you are getting him for 2 to 3 years of his prime and then 5 to 6 years of his decline while paying him a ton of money, which would be similiar to what we did with Giambi*
although, i think you could justify the signing by recognizing that while his decline period starts at 32 or 33, and he’d be signed until 36 or 37:
1) you’ll pay the premium to optimize his prime years, which fall in line with the window some people feel the Yankees have with their aging core built around Jeter and Jorge, and Mo.
2) though he will be in decline from 33 to the end of his deal, his decline would still provide numbers greater than what the Yankees feel they can develop for the position internally, or when compared to players in the league, he’d still be among the top certain percentage in the league at his position.
“Yay! Boston will be crippled with this contract for a decade and we will have Swish at first, playing for a modest price and playing a hard nosed game, giving the Yanks great fielding, a .300 average and about 12-15 HR per year.”
I thought you were serious until I got to the .300 average part. Good one.
Princess Unicorn,
I thought you were serious until I got to the .300 average part. Good one.
“which, in my opinion, based on the data I have seen, signing Tex to a long term deal doesnt make much sense, because you are getting him for 2 to 3 years of his prime and then 5 to 6 years of his decline while paying him a ton of money, which would be similiar to what we did with Giambi”
i would tend to agree with that which is why i like manny for a quick hit and a possible quick out in a few years.
“Yay! Boston will be crippled with this contract for a decade and we will have Swish at first, playing for a modest price and playing a hard nosed game, giving the Yanks great fielding, a .300 average and about 12-15 HR per year.”
If Swisher hits .300 this year everyone’s invited over my house next year for XMas. He is an OBP guy, who could possibly hit 25 HR though. Not too shabby.
I like what I’m hearing about pulling for Patt Burrell.
Regarding paying for Teixeira’s decline years, some types of players are more susceptible to decilne than others. A player who plays a physically demanding position is in danger of declining such that he can’t play the position anymore. A fast player may slow down. An undisciplined hitter who thrives on bat speed may end up just a bit late on his swings, bringing down his average and OBP. And so on.
Teixeira is not immune to decline, but he plays a relatively undemanding position and has a great batting eye. His power is not going to go away either. So I don’t think he’s a threat to suffer the sort of decline that would make his contract a bad investment. Will he be worth $22 million a year in his mid 30s? No. But I doubt he will be as grossly overpaid as Giambi was either.
Giambi himself is a strange case. Unlike Teixeira, he is not a good fielding first baseman and probably never was. He was also a PED guy and had serious health setbacks that were probably related to his PED use. And yet even after all his missed time, he still was a big contributor in the last year of his contract. I doubt we would see Teixeira decline as muchas Giambi did.
Not sure why Cano got his long term deal and Wang keeps having to have arbitration hanging over his head… Ridiculous