It is hard to believe a good German family like the Steinbrenner’s would not make sure that the Hannukah candles are not lit every night at the Stadium – It is probably at a table next to the Christmas tree!
The Yankees overpaid again. Teixeira has never been an MVP candidate. Never played like the best player in the league and yet Ca$hman pays him like he is an MVP. Stupid.
All the money will set up huge expectations for Teixeira just like AROD. Is .290 35 120 worth $180 million ? Only to Ca$hman. A monkey with a cellphone and a checkbook could negotiate better than Ca$hman. Boras played him again – just like with AROD and Damon.
RODDERREO……Texeria is now just entering jis prime performance years,,,,The past two seasons with three different clubs indicates that a break out year is approaching, in the form a an MVP….He’s already bagged 2 Glove Gloves, the trades from league to league hinder any chances of be awarded another but wil change now that he’s back in the AL to stay….He’s an a pace that will get him to 500 + hr’s before the 8 years expire…..You question is contract today, trust me, in a few seasons it’ll prove to be a solid Yankee investment…..My only concern is his slow starts out of the gate……There’s a 40 hr. 130 rbi, .335 ba season coming in short time….Be thankful that he’s wearing pinstripes, it’ll make your concerns about the teams success much less……The Yankee inf. defensive % just spike upwards……He’s the complete package,,on & off the field…..
But it went beyond that. I thought the Yankees had finally learned their lesson about the dangers of too many long-term contracts. I believed in their plan. I supported Brian Cashman when he didn’t trade for Johan Santana last winter, and then didn’t trade for Sabathia this past summer. I simply never thought they would risk putting themselves in the situation they just completed, when they couldn’t wait to unload a ton of salary.
And when they jumped into a long-term marriage with Teixeira, after already signing up CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, I reacted with surprise and some disapproval.
Another concern: Cashman also worked hard to change the culture of the clubhouse. To get the players to stop looking to the front office – “We need a new starting pitcher!” – every time there was a three-game losing streak. To create a sense of accountability, and also enthusiasm about the team’s own farm system. And to make for a little more urgency, what with fewer long-term commitments.
Maybe the acquisitions of Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett won’t blow up those cultural changes; I believe those changes really worked, particularly after the help that Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy all provided in 2007. Maybe there’ll still be opportunities for the kids, when you look at centerfield and the fifth starting pitcher’s job (although I still think Andy Pettitte will wind up coming back).
Meanwhile, however, if you look ahead to 2015, the Yankees could be paying $23 million to a 35-year-old Sabathia, $27.5 million to a 40-year-old Alex Roriguez and $22.5 million to a 35-year-old Teixeira.
Maybe Sabathia (who, to be clear, might be an ex-Yankee for four seasons at that point, if he exercises his opt-out after 2011) and Teixeira will both still be elite at age 35. But we’ve seen in this testing era that players are getting older sooner, if you will. Just look at Hideki Matsui, who went from a great re-sign Iron Man at age 31 to, at 35, looking like Sideshow Bob when he keeps walking into the rakes in this episode.
If you tell me, “I don’t care about 2015!” I’ll say fine, that sure, the 2009 Yankees are looking pretty good.
But, in the 1998-99 offseason, when the Yankees and Mets handed out seven-year commitments to Bernie Williams and Mike Piazza, respectively, you could’ve told me, “I don’t care about 2005!” When 2005 rolled around, however, you sure cared about seeing those two icons embarrassing themselves at their respective positions
I must say that I’ve been disappointed to read your take on
Texeira and, in fact, the Yankees whole offseason. I expected better
First off, I completely disagree that the Yankees have blown up
their plan to go with youth, esp. in the rotation. The Yanks
currently have Wang and Joba and next year, Phil will be there.
Phil is not ready for the big leagues yet due to injury, so he needs
more time in AAA. The Yankees believe this – it hardly means that
he will never get an opportunity with them. This year alone, he likely
will get several starts due to injury.
You just sound like the rest of the media who complain when the
Yankees make moves to improve the team – that’s not a good thing.
I don’t think you should speak for the players. I think the players are
very happy to have gotten some terrific pitching, something they
haven’t had in a long time.
Anyway, I’m sorry you think the Yankees have not had
a good off-season (your comment yesterday about them
winning the offseason made no sense. The never said it
guaranteed them anything, but with your philosophy, no team
would ever try to improve themselves.
Doesn’t it just get to you? I get tired of it all.
To me, this doesn’t show Cashman’s abandoning his plan. That we’ll have to wait and see – how they draft, how the development of the current crop of minor leaguers goes. And that’s going to take time. Mark Teixeira is ONE position player. I have no problem with Teixeira and ARod being around for the next 8 years. That leaves every outfield spot, and 2 of the 4 infield spots and the catcher spot to potentially be filled “from within.”
Not to mention the bullpen the Yankees have put together.
And the pitching staff is 3/5 Yankees homegrown, with the potential to remain that way for the next at least 4 years. At that time it could go to a possibly 4/5 homegrown, with CC being the only FA in there.
People are greatly over-exaggerating what the Yankees did this winter. I think they spent very responsibly, filling needs, not wants, getting players who were worth the money, not fringe guys. AJ is the only “iffy” guy, but it’s worth giving the guy a shot – he’s got great stuff and looks to have made the necessary changes to remain healthy.
And if the Yankees didn’t sign any free agents this off-season, went with the kids everywhere, and started out 11-19, the FIRST guy who would be killing them would be Ken Davidoff.
It very simple. They do it because they are the Yankees. Its what they are. They spend THEIR money on THEIR team, and every uninformed member of the media gets their undies in a twitter over it.
They got younger, more athletic and better with each of these signings. Swisher, Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira. All younger, more athletic and better than the players they replaced on the roster. They also didn’t get away from their plan to develop from within.
They didn’t trade a single, high end prospect to complete these transactions.
What they did do is give their prospects time to develop instead of just throwing them into the fray.
They accomplished all this and the payroll will STILL be lower than it was in 2008.
The only people who can find fault with what they have done are just people who hate the Yankees. Which is ok. Nothing wrong with that.
Just don’t try to act as if these decisions were “bad” because, from a baseball perspective, EVERY one of these decisions made sense.
Perhaps, that’s the reason so many folks are upset with the Yankees. For a change, the baseball decisions were actually logical.
It’s laughable that all of these media “people” and fans of other teams continually bring up Tampa and Boston as the correct way to build a team. Of course they fill to mention that Tampa finished last 10 years in a row had no worse than the #3 player in the draft, and usually the #1 pick. The other part is that even with that 5 of their bullpen and 5 of their 9 regulars came from other teams…only one of which was from a trade.
Boston has 3 starters i the rotation, 5 of their bullpen and 4 regular position players and soon to be a fifth when they get a catcher, that came from other teams. the majority were FAs.
What I really don’t get is the kneejerk reaction that signing CC, AJ, and Teixeira signals abandonment of the youth movement.
Even Pete originally wrote something to this effect (Cashman’s statements that the Yankees were developing from within and going with youth were a “myth”) in his “stealth mission by Cashman” post, but, to his credit, edited this part out of the post.
The Yankees declined to trade Hughes and other prospects for Santana. They held onto every name prospect in their system except Tabata, and they only traded Tabata so they could fill immediate needs.
CC, AJ, Teixeira block no prospects whatsoever. The Yankees signed these players because their rotation was thin and they needed another bat, especially at first base. Any writer who says these signings throw the youth movement in jeopardy either has no understanding of how baseball teams function, or has no legitimate ideas and is just trying to come up with some way to bash the team.
Like most things in baseball, the Yankees’ moves were very simple. The Yankees had tens of millions coming off the books at the same time top players, who were exactly the players the Yankees needed, entered free agency. Signing those players was the smartest thing the Yankees could do.
I have seen no intelligent arguments against the Yankees’ signings. Some writers say they just don’t feel good about it. That’s their prerogrative, but it’s not valid criticism. Davidoff says the Yankees will be paying top dollar for old players years down the road. That’s true, but he forgets that the Yankees will constantly work to bring in young players through trades and additional free agent signings. It’s not like the Yankees are going on cruise control for the next eight years and making no more changes to the team.
“To me, this doesn’t show Cashman’s abandoning his plan.”
this is a sad but true story.brian cashman taking advantage of the nebraska safe haven law abandoned his “plan” at an omaha hospital in august. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26353351/
“While lawmakers may not have intended it, the month-old law raises the possibility that frustrated gms could drop off misbehaving plans or even severely disabled older players with impunity.”
With the amount of money the government is spreading around with bailouts the dollar is going to inflate at the rate of the 70′s. 23 million dollars isn’t going to be worth 23 million 2008 dollars in 2015. These signing will look good in comparison to what is going to be asked for by future FAs.
Some like Ken, who I like to read, love when the Yankees do the things they do, it makes their jobs easier…Pete at least admits that.
Do you think Ken would even be writing articles over the Holiday Season, if he covered any other team?
The Yankees are who they are…spenders! They reinvest in their product.
If Ken says that the business plan has changed, it hasn’t, it will only get stringer with developing youth, which if he had looked he would know that not one top prospect (Minus Tabata) has bee moved in the last two years.
Making these moves sets them up to let the Phil Hughes’ and others actually get the seasoning they need in the minors and not on the job…where vultures like Lupica would destroy them.
Just look at the Sally team and in 4-5 years some of them may be top prospects.
Well I hope that everyone had a Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holiday and I can’t wait for the last press conference at the Stadium…or maybe I’m speaking too soon.
As far as position players. Tampa only has 3 guys (Crawford Longoria Upton) to show for their ineptness over the last 10 years. That is not great success. Picking that high in the draft over the past decade they should have more to show for it.
Their SS, 2B, 1B, C, and RF are all from other organizations. Some good smart trades are there but most of their team is not homegrown. As some are acting like it is.
And their 2 best starters Garza and Kazmir came from other teams.
When you break it down you see their drafting has been very spotty.
I would like to point out that even with these three signings the Yankees will likely open 2009 with just FOUR players who joined them as FA from MLB teams that wanted to keep them, FOUR. Johnny Damon and this year’s triop, that’s it.
Had they signed the trio of Manny, Lowe and Hudson it would be abandoning the master plan, but this year’s acquisitions support it fully as has been well pointed out. Even if Pettite returns, look at it this way:
Pettite is younger than Mussina
Burnett is younger than Pettite
Sabathia is younger than Pavano
Teixiera is younger than Giambi
Swisher is younger than Abreu
Next year they may be able to add
AJax is younger than Nady
Holliday is younger than Matsui
Getting younger while remaining strong contenders is a difficult balancing act. They probably tried to do too much too fast last year, but this year’s moves make perfect sense. Of course is Wang and Joba had stayed healthy the transition might have been less stressful.
True, some early draft picks were lost but good scouting can make up for it with clever late round picks which has happened many times.
Cashman is still on course with his plan and many farm players will reach fruition within 2-3 years. Any excess talents can be used in filling holes.
Free agency will always be used wherever needed along with smart transactions.
No team can be competitive by strictly depending on their farm systems.
The Yankees wanted to get younger and more athletic and they have done that. They wanted to keep all of their “kids” and they have managed to do that.
It was obvious last season that whatever we did see of Hughes and Kennedy they were not ready. CC and AJ gives the Yanks a formidable 1-2 at the top of the line-up and enables Hughes and Kennedy to develop down in the minors.
I’d argue that the team that has been the most successful at player deveopment over the past decade or so, has been the Phillies. The Red Sox and the Rays get all of the media attention, but look at some of the home grown players the Phillies had on their series winning team:
i was just having a little fun poking fun at the “plan”.
in all fairness to brian cashman, i think he’s at his best when he’s up against the wall. he was given a lot of room to do what he wanted when he signed his previous contract, and like anything new he went through some growing pains.
missing the playffs in 2008 put him back against the wall. even with a new contract, there was no way the yankees could miss the playoffs the last year at yankee stadium and the first year at the new “death star”, i mean , the new yankee stadium and have him keep his job. the money owed him on the new contract is peanuts compared to what the yankees spend on winning.
but i’m totally happy with moves cashman has made. he’s really bought the yankees time to develop the farm system in a more patient manner. baseball development takes time, and the yankees were rushing their prospects.
if you take a look at the twins young pitching rotation in 2008, you’ll notice they were all a few years older than the yankees young starting pitchers in 2008. hughes is going to be good. he just needs time to adjust to the big boys. joba is fine assuming the yo yo development hasn’t created some injury time bombs. because of this even joba benefits from the pressure being off him and onto sabathia and burnett. it wouldn’t be a bad idea to go very easy with joba this year just to have his body catch up to things.
cashman has given the “plan” time to work and also himself time to learn how to develop young players. i’d say cashman has hit a grand slam with his moves this winter.
We overpaid for Teixeira, I think that is obvious. He is not worth 180 million over 8 years, but he is worth about 160 over 8 years. What is an extra 20 million to the Yanks? And more in luxury tax?
The franchise is built on winning and with a new season, new stadium, and the favorites to win the WS, this move makes a lot of sense. Adding Teixeira improves our chances to a near no-doubter. Winning the WS in the first year at the new stadium is clearly the goal of Cashman and Co. as it should be. With a rotation filled with studs and a lineup with more versatility and talent than most any other in baseball, the Yankees should have no problem winning 100+ games and making the playoffs look like 1998 and 2000 all over again. They may be a crapshoot with evenly matches teams, but this year, the Yanks stand far above the rest.
The only thing that concerns me about Joba is the potential of injury. Not just due to bouncing back and forth between starter and bullpen but because he had some inury history prior to being drafted. That is why he fell a little in the draft to us.
I would think bringing Pettite back would allow us to ease Joba and Hughes along creating a safer road for both.
*I would think bringing Pettite back would allow us to ease Joba and Hughes along creating a safer road for both.*
along these lines, i kind of think that when you pair the Yankees’ stance with Pettitte into consideration with the idea that they are looking to move maybe one of the surplus of OFers, whether it be Matsui, Nady, or Swisher (all of who have differing levels of value on the trade market), you begin to wonder if they’ll look to bring in a young, but more established pitcher or a veteran pitcher with a bad-type contract to take Andy’s place in the rotation.
examples: pair a Nady with a couple of young arms for a Matt Cain or a Gil Meche-type, or revist Jarrod Washburn or that type of arm and swap Matsui’s contract.
not saying ive heard these anywhere, or that i think these would happen… just the types of deals you might see if Cashman moves on from Andy and he is looking to trade an OFer.
Brandon, I like the team the way it is, but if there is any truth that they’re looking to move 2 of the of’s, does that mean Manny is still on the radar ????? Where did you hear or read this ?? Cannot imagine any more big moves other than Andy Pettite & a mid inf for depth….
Happy holidays everyone! May all of my fellow bloggers here have a safe and joyous season and come through ’09 at the very least intact.
Thanks to the Yankees for giving us some respite. We now have very exciting team to look forward to watching. It’s hard to say what I’ve enjoyed more, the news that we landed Mark Teixeira or the howls of consternation from my fellow New Englanders.:)
randy I – You’re complimenting Cash? What’s the world coming to? (lol)
I would be leary of trading an OF, unless the deal is really good. I think I would go with an OF of Swisher-Damon (CF) and Nady, using Brett or Melky at Johnny’s relief. I’d love for either Melky or Brett to take the CF job, but I don’t think I would rely on either of them at this point.
And I wouldn’t deal Matsui – unless you have someone else in mind for DH (Manny? Talk about an explosion waiting to happen.).
The funniest thing about the Davidoffs, Gammons, and Lupicas of the world is they are completely inconsistent with their arguments. Mets have spent, so have Tigers , Cubs, and Red Sox. Phillies just committed 30 million to a 36 yr old OF for 3 years. Royals gave Kyle Farnsworth 10 million!!
The best perspective cames from Tom Verducci in SI.
For me, it’s two fold. The first is anyone with a brain saw the spending this off season coming. SJ said it all last summer. Many disagreed, myself to a degree included, but the point was the Yankees took a gamble last year knowing about 90 mill would be coming of the books in a year when there would be several premier FA at positions they needed (SP and 1B). They will still reduce spending.
The second is protecting prospects. They gave up none. Not to get Santana or to sign FA. The beauty of the stategy is they will lose comp picks, however they still have protected 1st and 2nd for not signing Cole or Bittle. They can still have a productive draft.
Cashman didn’t hit a HR so far this off season, it’s been a WS walkoff grand slam, and it may not be a finished product. He is building the organization to be strong for the next decade.
Everything from angry owners to poor columnist is sour grapes and snap reaction, the kind we didn’t see when the Red Sox stole JD Drew from the Dodgers or disregarded informal agreement with Japanese league or the way the Cubs spent the last two years to build their team.
Media types like davidoff all have an angle to push.
They can’t all write the same thing.
If they have to move an outfielder, I say move matsui or nady.
Swisher is locked in affordably for the next three years, and can play a number of positions.
Plus, let’s not forget the “grit factor” he brings…
350 yard drives ??? Great analogy Randy I…I’ve been wanting to ask for your take on the rotation….Do you go CC, AJ then Wang ??? I suggest this in order to rest the bullpen ….300 yd. drives are a thing of the past for me….I had back to back birds Wednesday and still shot 91…I too feel that Cashamn has pulled off a coup, and the club just needs some minor tweaking…..Matsui will rebound in a big way in the 5 hole…
December 26th, 2008 at 10:31 am
does that mean Manny is still on the radar ?????
i dont see any chance of that happening, unless Manny is fully willing to do a 1 year deal, and just because that would be too distigustingly tastey offensively to pass up.
but nah, i personally dont see them moving an OF for the purpose of clearing room for Manny.
Here are my scenarios if we trade 1 or 2 of the 3:
1- Trade Nady OR Matsui for some IF or OF depth for this year. Figgins?
2- Trade Nady or Matsui along with some young pitching to get someone like a Peavy or Cain type.
3- Trade Matsui and Nady for low level prospects in a salary dump to clear room to sign Manny. We would then have to go young with our 5th starter spot.
I believe that we need to move one of them so our OF can be Swisher,Gardner/Melky and Nady/Damon.
If we trade just Matsui then Damon is our DH. If we trade just Nady then Matsui is our DH.
If we trade both Nady and Matsui and sign Manny then he is our DH.
Either way someone has to go because Nady/Swisher/Matsui can’t sit on the bench in my opinion.
*I’ve been wanting to ask for your take on the rotation….Do you go CC, AJ then Wang ??? I suggest this in order to rest the bullpen*
which is what i was thinking about, too… only i was wondering how Pettitte not coming back changes it up.
if Hughes (or Kennedy or Aceves, or whoever) and Joba are both in the rotation to start the season, i wonder if they put Wang or Burnett in between then, effectively making Hughes a #3 technically, and having an innings eater at #4 leading into Joba.
Funny how Lupica, Gammons and the rest didnt speak a word about the Red Sox reneging on the gentleman’s agreement between mlb and the Japanese leagues. A disparaging word wasn’t spoken in ’06 when the Sox colluded with Boras to bring JD Drew to Boston or the fact the Red Sox bid against themselves to the tune of $70mil to sign him. It was just taken as another brilliant move by Theo when they signed Julio Lugo to a $36mil contract that they now regret.
Between Dice K, Drew & Lugo, Boston spent $200mil in ’06 and not a word was written by the nattering nabobs of Yankees negativism. The same can be said about the $100mil payroll advantage Boston had over Tampa Bay in the ’08 playoffs.Nothing like consistency huh?
William Buckner- You can’t be serious comparing the spending of ANY team to the Yankees. Until teams get within the Marlins payroll of the Yankees there is no comparison. You are defending the indefensible.
For now we can be ecstatic with CC and Teixeira, and hope that AJ doesn’t turn into a bust. That is the one signing I didn’t love. The guy has “stuff”, but hasn’t really produced, also has terrible injury issues.
Signings like these make following baseball a tad less exciting to me, I really can’t get behind a spend spree (even if the payroll is “lower” it’s still ridiculous) that just means we take the top 3 available FAs it’s less creative and interesting to follow.
I do agree on the JD Drew item, but I think the Japanese signing was blown a bit out of proportion, we have been signing Latin players in this fashion for years, no reason not to do that in Japan (unwritten rule or not).
Teix is a machine…now im hoping we can trade one of our outfielders for a good arm like gil meche or one of those twins pitchers, but if we trade 2 outfielders for some pitchers, i see no wrong in signing manny for a year or two as a DH
The worst arguments I have read about the recent Yankee signings is the comparison to the economy.
If the Yankees didn’t sign these players wouldn’t have some other teams?
If you use the economy – “do what’s good for the country” excuse – then NO teams should be signing FA’s – and that would bring out the ugly C word – collusion.
I don’t think someone who has just lost their job in this present economy would say “I can’t believe the Yankees spent 180 mil on a first baseman – it’s obscene! – now 140 mil to the Orioles doesn’t bother me.”
give me 15 minutes on the range with you and we’ll increase your swing speed at least 10 mph ( at 3 yds per mph that’ll beat least 30 yards). straight will be up to you to figure out. lol.
i hadn’t thought about it, but sabathia, burnett, and wang makes sense considering burnett’s occasional early inning implosions. i really like this team on paper right now. there’s tweaking as you say to be done, but cashman has gotten things back on track. once they start playing together, we’ll know more about the necessary tweaking.
i wouldn’t mind seeing them go into spring training with the team as it is now and adjust as they play. there’s plenty of time after that to make changes if they need to. they would have the whole first half really to see how the parts fit.
“I think the Japanese signing was blown a bit out of proportion, we have been signing Latin players in this fashion for years, no reason not to do that in Japan (unwritten rule or not).”
I think the Japanese will strongly disagree with you. Not only did they discuss withdrawing from the WBC in protest ( cooler heads prevailed) but they did implement a ban on Japanese amateurs like Tazawa from returning to the Japanese leagues. Japanese baseball is furious with what happened.
It’s squarely on Girardi to develop a run scoring method to keep runners moving and without complete reliance on the long ball. Not every inning begins with the 3-4-5 hitters.
For the sake of the better pitching staff, the name of the game should be insurance runs.
As someone who agreed with your take on Brian Cashman, I’m happy to join you in congratulating him on his dealings this winter. I was perplexed when the didnt offer Abreu arbitration, but it did work out for the best.
“If you use the economy – “do what’s good for the country” excuse – then NO teams should be signing FA’s”
Actually the argument could be made that what is good for the economy is to stimulate it which means that people who have money should spend it. The Yanks have done their part. They pay their players who in turn, make charitable contributions, buy new houses, cars, etc., the people they buy them from buy new things, and so on, and so forth. Healthier economy.
December 26th, 2008 at 11:17 am
YankeeRay- Are any of those scenarios realistic? Figgins is much better than Matsui, Peavy won’t go for a pile of crap and a prospect, and there’s no way they go after Manny now.
BK, on Figgins, we would have to offer more than just one of the OF’s. I threw his name out there as to mean something like that.
Peavy’s name was mentioned in similar manner but we would also have to offer more for him or someone like him or Meche.
As far as Manny goes, if we were able to trade Matsui and Nady what would be wrong with Manny for 2 years since the other 2 could be gone after next year?
Think big BK, thats how we landed Tex.
matsui’s had since august to rehab, as a f/t dh, he’s going to stay healty and have a great last season in pinstripes. he is going to be worth alot more than they can get for him. just pencil him in the 5 hole and he is going to produce.
The second thing that bothers me about the recent columns I’ve read – using the total package amount spent to sway the reader. “The Yankees spent 423 million – it’s obscene!”
(reminds me of the Arod Texas deal – some people might not remember how many years it was for – but everyone remember 252 mil)
Hypothetically – if the Yankees were so sure of Joba’s long term success that they signed him to a 20 year/5 mil a year deal today what would be the headlines tomorrow?
Joba a Yankee for life!
Crazy Yankees throw ANOTHER 100 mil at a pitcher!
(maybe it depends if it’s a NY paper or out of town one – Lupica excluded)
Using the total dollar amount – can change perception.
What if you are average Joe making 50K a year.
You boss calls you into his office.
“Joe, we like the job you are doing – we don’t want you going anywhere else. Promise us, you’ll be here another 20 years”.
Do you go home and tell your spouse you are a millionaire?
(they’ll think you’ve been playing the lotto tickets again)
Well you do have a 50K job and you have been promising 20 years!
If one of the four outfielders is going to be traded, I suspect it might be Nady. I thought at first Matsui would be the choice, but now he looks more like a bridge to the Posada d/h years. Swisher has a certain flair and Damon has leadoff and speed. If any of them are going to be traded, look for Nady to move with a young pitcher. LA might like Nady and we could get some I/F insurance, maybe that first round draft pick, and whatever else the Cashman might conjure for the new year. He’s not finished yet!
I may very well be proven wrong on this, but why trade any of these players….Nady is playing for a contract and he’s only 28 or so…..Matsui ( if he bounces back ) is a top ten hitter…..Where are you going to find a hitter like him for the # 5 spot in the order….He may be so-so in left, but he can still flat out hit…..He’s staying…Damon is the leadoff hitter ( playing for a contract as well ) and Swisher provides a wealth of flexibility…Besides he’ll come back to hit .280 with 30 dingers…..This team is nearly set…
*If one of the four outfielders is going to be traded, I suspect it might be Nady.*
Nady brings back more in return than Matsui or Swisher, but you might have to add to Nady in order to get something really valuable.
Nady makes sense because he’s a FA after the season, whereas Cashman has control of Swisher for a couple more seasons, and can resign Matsui if the Yankees want… because for Matsui, its really the Yankees or back to Japan at this point in his career I’d imagine.
i agree, i expect nady to be moved. they need damon and cant get equal value for matsui. swisher has a favorable contract through 2012 (club option). add in the fact that he allows the yankees to give melky or gardner a chance to show something while having and adequate replacement in cf. and i think cash specifically went after swisher b/c he brings intensity that has sometimes been lacking. (i think GI Joe is gonna love him.
nady’s contract is very movable even in a crowded OF market because of the 1 yr commitment. i like xavier but i think he’s the odd man out.
*.Matsui ( if he bounces back ) is a top ten hitter*
he isnt a top-10 hitter, but your point is taken… but that is why i think he’ll stay, because he has more value to the yankees for the season if they hold onto him and he can come back and have a productive season vs they trade him and get basically just salary relief or a low-a prospect or 2 in return.
Nady is the most valuable in the market as presently constructed, and he had at least a half dozen teams realistically in on him at the trading deadline last season… you can prob count in more teams now this offseason, where there is more time to get more creative about a deal then as is during the season.
But that doesn’t mean he should be kept. With players like Damon, Posada and Jeter, we need the DH spot open. We also need our best defensive lineup out there with Damon @ DH, Swisher in LF, Melky/Gardner in CF and Nady in RF.
Everyone is already clearing room in LF for Holliday at the expense of Nady. I keep seeing Swisher’s name plugged into the RF spot but he’s far more mobile than Nady and Holliday and thus more suited for LF.
People have to get it out of their heads that Holliday will be on this team in 2010. He’s not.
It was always going to be either Teixiera or Holliday.
We already have the top 4 contracts in baseball and we want to add another one for a left fielder?
Talk about being spoiled.
We traded Tabata for Nady because we didn’t want to have to give Abreu another big contract.
Nady’s contract will be a much better bargain than Holliday’s and without Nady the Yankees would have to stretch the budget again on Holliday.
Nady’s staying. Swisher’s staying. The third OF will emerge from Melky/Gardner/Jackson.
i had heard that swisher was an adequate cf, not a terrible one. in any event i believe that some sacrifices had to be made to accomodate the tex signing and not picking up an experience cf is one of them. so swisher’s ability to play cf at least when they need more hitting is critical.
I understand that this maybe difficult and CB is the guy to project the numbers, because injuries have taken big chunks of his recent seasons…But I think if you look up Matsui’s numbers since he arrived in 03, I’m certain you’ll find him in the top 10 ( or damn close )hitters in the AL…..I’m saying BA, RBI’S , runs, doubles , home runs he’ll likely be found in the top 20….But my point is he’s always in the top 10 in the core catergories…..
“I understand that this maybe difficult and CB is the guy to project the numbers, because injuries have taken big chunks of his recent seasons…But I think if you look up Matsui’s numbers since he arrived in 03, I’m certain you’ll find him in the top 10 ( or damn close )hitters in the AL…..I’m saying BA, RBI’S , runs, doubles , home runs he’ll likely be found in the top 20….But my point is he’s always in the top 10 in the core catergories…..”
Why are you allowed to suggest these assets but on the other hand state that the rest of the GM’s around the league won’t acknowledge any value whatsoever and require the Yankees to eat most of Matsui’s contract.
Surely you’re not the only person who has access to those stats and can paint a best-case scenario.
It’s funny because I see so many posters knockin Matsui for his bum knees and in the same breath rave about how perfect a five hitter he will be batting behind Arod.
*Everyone is already clearing room in LF for Holliday at the expense of Nady.*
really? i havent really read that or seen that at all… maybe i missed those posts.
i was under the impression that they made the large push for Teixeira this year because they preferred him this year at that price vs Halliday at his perceived or estimated market value next offseason.
*But that doesn’t mean he should be kept. With players like Damon, Posada and Jeter, we need the DH spot open.*
Jeter is playing SS everyday. he’s not DH’ing this year.
Posada, likewise, will be catching when he plays this year. His offesnive value goes down if he’s a full time DH as opposed to being the team’s catcher. you just have to hope he’s healthy enough to catch full time this season, and worry about him DH’ing next year.
the DH is basically Matsui’s, with Damon in LF and Nady or Swisher in RF.
and if you think the Yankees need the salary relief over what value they get in return for trading a valuable commodity like Nady, then thats the move you make.
but i dont think they need the salary relief, which is why to me, Matsui isnt going anywhere.
*Matsui staying over Nady is a short term move that compromises a long term vision.*
only if they were to trade Nady away for nothing, which they wouldnt do.
Nady is a FA after 2009, so he cant really be counted in the long-term plans so easily because he may not be here next year anyway… so maybe they maximize his value byu trading him now vs. the draft picks they’d get if he goes elsewhere vs the potential value they see in him as an everyday OF thru his career, or the next couple years anyway if they were to sign him to an extention.
That’s the wild card. You can look at all the MRI’s in the world and study his throwing sessions day and night but you still don’t know how his shoulder will hold up until you know. If it can’t sustain, the Yankees would be forced to deal Matsui. It’ll be much harder to dump that contract if/when other GM’s discover that Posada can’t throw.
And Damon is our leadoff hitter and probably the most injury prone player on the team
Back off all the absolutes. Damon, Matsui and Nady could all be FA after 2009 freeing up at least $ 32 million. That money could be spent any number of ways and Holliday is one of them.
I wouldn’t deal any of the four (Nady, Damon, Matsui, Swisher). Those four guys with Melky and Gardner in reserve creates a great many mix and match possibilities for the four daily spots in the lineup. Again, Bret is wrong claiming we will won’t see Damon or Swisher in CF. Maybe not every day, but we will definitely see it.
None of the four is a proven, 160 game as year player any more. They all need days off. Matsui has faded as a threat vs LHP and is coming off surgery. Damon needs to DH some. Nady had never played more than 130 games before last year, and Swisher, well he did hit .219 last year.
as i said if you want nady after this year, he will be available again after this season. no way boras will let him sign away his first fa season so no matter where he plays in 2009 the yankees could have him in the OF in 2010.
before matsui got hurt last season, i thought joe did a great job of spelling both of them enough to get the max out of them at thier age. i think you keep everybody into ST and then if posada looks good behind the plate and matsui shows he’s healty you have all options open all the way up to the trade deadline. if anybody cant answer the bell, you’re covered.
Right now, there isn’t going to be much of a market for trading outfielders and getting value for them until Burrll, Abreu, Dunn and Bradley are still onthe market for only money. Teams aren’t likely to trade quality for one year player rentals at this time. Perhaps after the others have signed, during Spring Training, NYY can get value from teams that missed out on the FAs.
“As someone who agreed with your take on Brian Cashman, I’m happy to join you in congratulating him on his dealings this winter.”
as someone who spoke up when i thought he was going in the wrong direction, it’s only right to compliment him when he makes moves in the right direction. my take on cashman is that he was really trying to be do something that he wasn’t that good at in player development and abandoning what got him the success he had in the past, and that was using the clout of the yankees to make good trades and to make good free agent signings.
he’s right that player development is an important tool, but he needs time to learn how to use that tool. now he has that time, so all’s well in yankee land.
i’m in agreement with pat m. that the yankees are pretty set right now. i’d like to see matsui and damon play out their last year as useful parts of the puzzle, but i’d also like to see nady for a full year and melky as a fourth outfielder to see if he can get back to the promise he’s shown for extended periods. and i’m intrigued by the depth and options swisher gives girardi.
i’d like to see hughes slowly worked into the rotation by mid season and joba be built up in a slow methodical way. i would also like to see the yankees quit messing with wang by having him throw too many other pitches and let his sinker do his talking for him.
the player i’m really hoping to see take it to another level is cano. with the swing he came out of the d.r. with, he’s a natural. again, i’d let him be himself and not try to make him hit like anyone else.
GB 7 is right on the market and that just reinforces my point that there’s no need to move anyone right now. If they need an every day catcer or something else in the spring they can check the market then.
Right now the biggest thing they need is a utility IF who is a lot better than Cody Ransom. And of course, getting Pettite settled.
December 26th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Moeller had already signed with Baltimore.
Bret—Your claim that Damon is the most injury prone player on the team is just plain absurd. The guy has played at least 141 games for 13 straight years.
Do some research and your judgement is bound to improve.
***p.s. If Jorge can’t throw, he probably can’t hit either***
Not true. Posada still hit well enough, last year. The power was down because of the shoulder, but, that isn’t a permanent thing. His only problem was getting enough games together to get and keep his swing intact.
We can debate all winter about the virtues and the possible physical shortcomings of Matsui….However I would at least make one thing very clear, the clubs ultimate success will be tied into his return as one of the best and pure hitters in the came….Bret The Hitman, I understand that we have been on different sides of the street ( Texeria is the most recent that comes to mind )……We certainly don’t know what other GM’s say or think for certain….That being said, Matsui is widley considered one of the best clutch big hit guys in the league….It’s been said many times that he’s the last guy in the Yankee order any Mgr. wants to see up with the game on the line….He’s always going a threat to drive the ball and deliver the big hit….Not A-Rod, but Matsui…..
It’s funny how everyone wants Matsui outta here. You won’t have that same feeling when he hits .300 25 115 next year. Matsui is a pro and you know if he is healthy (and he is) he will give you a very solid season next year. A couple years ago most Yankee fans wanted Matsui up in the clutch over anyone on the team. His knees are healthy and he is ready to have a big bounce back year. Keep sleeping on Matsui kids……Oh and this wont be his last year in the MLB. He will be playing in America next year with they Yanks or with another team.
Swisher really just replaces betemit, right? And he’s way better, so no need to get rid of him. Great trade.
Moving Damon is a horrible idea, we need Nady, and Matsui has no trade value.
Did anyone read Joe Posnanski’s last article about Teix/The Yankees? Even Posnanski who is usually way better than Gammons has joined in. Part of the reason the Yankees make more is because they invest more in players and in consistent teams. The Reds and KC are never good. How are you supposed to keep supporting those teams? These owners have enough capital and enough revenue to invest in good players. Is it too much to ask that sports writers share what little knowledge they have of baseball economics with their loyal readers? Is it too much to ask that they actually enjoy writing about real competition more than hobnobbing with GMs?
It is nice to have all this talk about which OF shlould be traded.
But in reality, nothing will happen soon, if at all.
There are too many corner outfielders still available in Free Agency including Abrue. Until all these guys sign somewhere, the trade market for OFs will not develop.
Yanks may well decide to keep them all, so that the bench will be strong with one of these guys available every day.
The comments about Matsui are interesting. If he is not good for Yankees, because of the knee surgeries, how is he good for other teams, especially if they have to give up prospects. I think Matsui will be a key player for Yanks in 2009. His first knee surgery went well and it was not a problem in 2008. I believe the same with the second knee surgery (the other leg). He is going to be DH, so chances of getting hurt will be reduced.
So, I do not see much happening now. The main news we will have in the coming next two weeks will be about Pettitte if he is coming back.
As I stated in an earlier thread, I beleive that Cash and Pettitte have an understanding that Pettitte will announce retirement and he will be brought back in the second half of the season similar to Clemens, when Joba reaches innings limit. They will give him 16 mil deal and he will get a prorated amount of about 6 to 8 mil. That will staisfy Pettitte’s ego and still meet Yanks payroll reduction needs. Time will tell if my prediction is right
Why would the Angels trade Figgins and not just resign Garrett Anderson, who will but up the same type of numbers that Matsui will at the same or lower cost and still keep Figgins? Or, they could sign any of 4 FA outfielders if they need production and keep or trade Figgins for something else they need?
As it stands if we trade Nady then Damon is in LF, Swisher in RF, Melk/Gard in CF and Matsui is our DH with a chance to put Posada there against lefties from time to time.
If we trade Matsui then Swish is in LF, Nady in RF, Melk/Gard in CF and Damon is our DH with a chance to put Posada there against righties from time to time and put Damon in the OF for Nady depending on who you want to rest that day.
If we trade both Matsui and Nady then you must sign Manny and let him DH, Damon in LF, Swish in RF and Melk/Gard in CF. Melk or Gard could replace Damon defensively and with Manny this gives us our best line up. We would have cleared salary and why not this scenario if Manny would come here for 2 yrs at say 20mill per?
December 26th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I don’t even want Manny anymore. It would just be over kill.
No such thing. Remember, we are pigs and hated anyway. If we clear 21 mill with Matsui and Nady who are both gone after next year we are in the same place financially.
Ther eare no guarantees with our current line up as I wouldn’t bet the house that we will win it all next year. Put Manny in the line up and I would betthe house.
If we don’t win next year everyone will be laughing at us and we won’t feel too good.
We must eliminate any chance of not winning overkill or not.
“Anyone know why the Yanks signed Kevin Cash instead of bringing back Moeller?”
1. Moeller has signed with the Orioles.
2. Cash will give the Yankee coaching staff some valuable insight on the pitching staff of their biggest rival – The Boston Red Sox.
I agree with Nud and have said the same before. With Giambino past history, Matsui represents the best lefty hitting run producer in the Yankee lineup (Tex and Jorge being switchers). He’s been a highly consistent hitter/run producer throughout his Yankee career and hits in the clutch. Matsui deserves much more respect than many of you are giving him
Pitt can’t sign their CF & I know they don’t want to take on big contracts,but if the Yanks can put together a package for Nate that would be the icing on the cakethat would give them a CF for the next 5 years
“Pitt can’t sign their CF & I know they don’t want to take on big contracts,but if the Yanks can put together a package for Nate that would be the icing on the cakethat would give them a CF for the next 5 years”
NATE MCLOUTH IS OVERRATED !!!
A 26 or 27 yr. old who has been a career #4 OF and then all the sudden it clicks for him, he’s not a good CF, his offensive numbers improved because the NL East had horrible SP, heck the NL’s pitching wasn’t a strength last season, you can make a living off weak pitching the AL is no joke, our competition in this league would not enhance Mclouth infact it would do the opposite.
Let’s forget about Manny. There is no need or want for him. We have 5 or 6 players for 3 OF spots and the DH. Let Melky and Brett fight it out over CF and stick with Nady, Matsui, Swish and Johnny for now…….A spring training trade is more likely when the dust settles a bit.
Swisher (I hope stays but could be moved)
Nady-Most likely to be dealt
Having Matsui DH most of the time will help him a lot. He also took well to the DH role a few years back when he was healthy.
Not only does Matsui deserve respect, he deserves an opportunity to prove he is healthy and ready to return to being a productive hitter, though I would sit him against lefties more often than not. Also, he has a complete no trade and there’s no indication he wants to move.
Again I say stand pat with the four guys, let Melky and Gardner provide depth, rest and late inning defense and go from there. If they have a glut in the spring there will be a market for it. Alex Cora was suggested as a utility IF and he’d be a huge upgrade on Ransom.
As for a # 5 hitter… I’m expecting Matsui vs RHP and Nady vs LHP.
“Austin Jackson is a down the road project & thats even if the Keys keep him…trade for Nate…NOW”
For what he’s overrated, check yr. to yr, if he’s ever done anything like last season in the ML, that would be one of the dumbest decisions in baseball to trade for a guy who in the NL saw what 3.9 pitches per PA, look at Nady did it improve his nonstrikeout rate or did it do the opposite ?
With the Yankee infield set now, no major trades should be made, unless it makes sense. The surplus in OF is not a problem. Damon in LF, Nady in RF, Gardner/Swicher CF, Matsui DH.
Both Nady and Swicher can play both coner OF positions as well as 1B. Matsui could be a phenomenal DH, where his knees would not break down from playing the OF. Matsui has proven his clutch hitting prowess and his numbers are even better than Abreu when healthy.
Next year, Nady, Matsui and Damon will be FA. Nady probably will be retained, not Damon or Matsui due to their age and price. Probably Holiday will occupy LF in 2010.
I think probably the best trade scenario should be Matsui being traded to the west Coast Angels for Chone Figgins. The Yanks may have to add a marginal B level pitcher to complete the trade (Albaladejo or Sanchez). Anything other than that would be unndecessary and unwise. Damon is the leadoff hitter for now, and both Nady and Swischer are cheap and in their prime.
The 5th starter spot could be filled by Aceves. He looked pretty good at the end, plus he is older, and can throw more innings in 09 than any of the other choices (Hughes, Kennedy, etc.)
I think Manny would be overkill. Unless we can get rid of Nady. If we get rid of Nady we can move Swisher to RF. Then Manny can split time with Damon in LF and Matsui at DH. It would give us the most unfair offensive advantage in the history of the game.
going into the new year with an all star caliber first baseman is alone something to be really thankful for. having a horse like sabathia and a wild card like burnett is beyond good.
until they start playing on the field, i think it’s going to be difficult to stir up many problems with this team. now that be boring for the blog, but i think the next big thing of interest is for the other shoe to drop with the red sox.
their retaliation will make for some interesting reading over the next few months. red sox fans that i’ve known for a long time are really stunned by the teixeira signing. right now they know the yankees have jumped ahead.
… but the red sox have about 40 million to spend and when they’ve spent it , there will be likely little difference on paper between the two teams. i think the who’s best on paper is going to be the dominant conversation between now and when the season begins.
so who are the red sox going to sign or trade for? they can improve catching and shortstop. maybe bundle prospects and cash( pay them to take lugo) and go after someone like hanley ramirez. maybe go after mauer ahead of time. peavy? they have options. 40 million of them and a farm system with prospects to trade.
Mike is right. We have won December for years with nothing to show for it in October. Teixeria is hardly a guarantee. Thats why us fans shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves and the rest of baseball shouldn’t act like we won the WS already and we’re ruining the sport.
I told people about that trade, it’s sad that he alone can’t get you much on the market, it’s even sadder that Tabata has more value in the trade market than Nady. Hopefully it’s a lesson learned by this franchise and not repeated again.
I disagree with the comments about Nady/Tabata. First of all it was Nady and Marte for Tabata and three others. Second, it was a deal the Yanks needed to stay in hailing distance and was working until they lost Joba.
Let’s see Tabata actually do something before we determine the deal was a “waste”. The Yanks will continue to do what they can to stay competitive and that will usually mean moving a prospect that may end up being special. They key is identifying the right guys to keep and the verdict is out on whether or not they did.
Swisher, Nady, Teixiera, Sabathia, Burnett, Marte, and Coke are experiencing their first major league spring training with the Yankees.
Phil Coke spent last year with Trenton’s minor league team for spring training.
Mark Melancon spent most of the spring with the big league team before being assigned to A Tampa to start the 2008 season.
Cody Ransom was one of the last cuts of the spring before being assigned to AAA.