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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Why the lack of respect for Wang?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 26, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Dave Eiland referred to Chien-Ming Wang as the No. 3 starter in a story Pete Caldera did for The Record. Labeling starters is a fruitless exercise. But it’s further evidence of how little respect the Yankees give Wang.

The Yankees took Wang to arbitration last year to avoid paying him an extra $600,000. And now Eiland is dismissing him as a No. 3 starter. Memo to Eiland: Wang is 46-15 with a 3.74 ERA since the start of the 2006 season. Burnett is 38-26, 3.94. Wang’s career ERA+ is 117. Burnett is at 111.

Wang is a better pitcher than Burnett. Plus it could make a lot more sense to put him between Sabathia and Burnett to give teams a different look rather than using two power pitchers in a row.

In time, people will figure out that Wang’s sinker makes him the exception to the idea that a great pitcher has to strike a bunch of guys out. If the Yankees don’t, another team will once he becomes a free agent.

————

As was first reported in The Journal News and on this blog, the Yankees are prepared to move on without Andy Pettitte. Newsday and the Post have reported the same thing. After stretching their budget for Mark Teixeira, several sources said the Yankees reached their limit for free agents.

The wild card is sentimentality. Pettitte is held in high regard by many within the organization and ownership could simply add another $10 million to the payroll for Pettitte.

————

Bernie Williams is making a comeback in the Puerto Rican winter league and is 1 for 6 with two strikeouts in two games. He hopes to play in the WBC. … Speaking of the WBC, Kevin Youkilis has committed to Team USA. That likely means Teixeira will not play. The Yankees would be happy to hear that. Teixeira is a notoriously slow starter (.256 in April) and they would like to see him get him get used to the pinstripes.

————

General managers never put down the BlackBerry for long. But baseball is on a holiday break.

MLB’s main office in New York is closed and every team (even the Yankees) has closed up shop through Jan. 5. There could be a transaction or two, but it’s unlikely that much action will go down.

Most of the beat writers are on vacation as well. So don’t expect much for the next week or so.

Comments

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824 Responses to “Why the lack of respect for Wang?”

  1. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Wang is not better than Burnett. He may pitch better but as a #2 AJ is the better option. (The question is can he stay healthy)

  2. E-Man December 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    That’s Unreal.. I think Wang is a better pitcher than CC.

  3. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Christmas egg nog ?

  4. Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    The injury to Wang last year killed his reputation- people are quick to forget that he won 38 games in 2006 and 2007 and was headed towards that number in 2008. Plus, his sinker is the best in the American League.

  5. E-Man December 26th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    “He may pitch better but…”

    lol

  6. raymagnetic December 26th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Hopefully Wang feels disrespected and has another monster year to prove the naysayers wrong.

  7. raymagnetic December 26th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    -Wang is not better than Burnett. He may pitch better but as a #2 AJ is the better option. (The question is can he stay healthy)-

    Should read Burnett has a better arm than Wang but Wang is a better pitcher.

  8. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    AJ Burnett healthy as a complete pitcher might equal a Curt Schilling after he left Philly.

    Wang I love him don’t get me wrong but he is not a better overall SP than AJ Burnett. He ideally is a # 3.

  9. Thurman December 26th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    I like the Yankees’ top 3, and I think they are the best in baseball. Joba could make it an imposing top 4, and if Hughes comes through, it’s lights out for the AL East.

  10. Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Thurman- agreed. Barring any injuries, the Yankees have the best rotation in baseball. Period.

  11. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    -Should read Burnett has a better arm than Wang but Wang is a better pitcher.-

    Last yr. Burnett learned how to pitch, he isn’t just throwing the ball anymore, this is going to put him above Wang and it’s not a bad thing because if AJ isn’t here Wang is the # 2 if CC isn’t here he is the 2…Wang is now the # 3 SP and he might win 20 as a #3

  12. raymagnetic December 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    “Wang I love him don’t get me wrong but he is not a better overall SP than AJ Burnett. He ideally is a # 3.”

    The numbers Wang has put up in his career would say otherwise, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

  13. truantbuick December 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Actually, I’d like to see Tex in the WBC. Get that first month’s worth of bad performance out of the way. ;)

  14. Buddy Biancalana December 26th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    That’s Unreal.. I think Wang is a better pitcher than CC.

    ————————————————————

    What?

  15. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    A lot of people say that it was because of Andy’s 16 mil we didn’t go for the Johan deal.. even though that is untrue, Andy had in his mind that he didn’t want people to think the Yankees didn’t go after Tex because of him. Andy is nothing short of a great guy and brings a lot to the clubhouse.

    I for one hope he decides to take the offer. I don’t know if it is still as important to him to pitch in the new stadium as it was last year for some time.. either way, having Andy for a 4/5 starter is more than adequate if you ask me.

  16. Believe in Wang December 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    Peter,

    Last time I emailed you asked how A.J. ‘s signing affects Wang’s future in Yankees.You said
    it has nothing to do with Wang.

    But Yankees’ little respect towards Wang is how I always feel.

    I really don’t think Yankees will give Wang a good deal when he hit free agent.
    The poor thing is Wang said several times in public (here in Taiwan)that he wants to be a Yankees forever. I think he should save that for himself. Look how Yankees treats Pettitte….

  17. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Wang is coming of an injury.. hence Eiland saying #3. It doesn’t have anything to do with skill level or not.. they want him to get back to his usual form.

    People often read into things way too much. Wang is fantastic and will compliment the rotation no matter where he pitches.

  18. RalphieD (Cant wait for 09) December 26th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    what does it matter whether the yankees think wang is a 1 2 or 3??…they jut gave burnett 82 million..they better think he is a 2!!!

  19. bodhisattva December 26th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    Not sure why Eiland felt compelled to rank the starters.

    Burnett hasn’t earned that status in our rotation, and the established Wang is hardly an also-ran.

    The pitching coach needs to learn discretion and I’m sure it will be Wang’s pleasure to make that statement seem foolish.

  20. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    P.S. “The source said nothing had been finalized on Pettitte but that the Yankees were leaning toward no.”

    In other words, take it or leave it Andy, but we aren’t going to wait much longer.

  21. Vrsce December 26th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Believe in Wang
    Believe in Wang

    You are very wrong. The Yankees negotiated a mutually acceptable deal with Wang this year, that he is happy with. They showed respect by not going to arbitration and ignored his injury.

    Pettitte was offered more by the Yankees than by any other team, he did not choose to take it.

    I do not think you are paying attention.

  22. Carl December 26th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Lets just hope everyone pitches well so we can win #27

  23. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Who really cares how anyone refers to Wang? I bet Wang doesn’t care. As long as he goes out and pitches his game Wang will get every bit of respect he deserves.

    Next.

  24. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Pete’s right, labeling pitchers number 1,2,…437 is meaningless. As Mel Stottlemyre once said, your number 1 pitcher is the guy who’s starting that day.

    Whatever order you put them in, our starting rotation is shaping up to be awesome. I hope Andy chooses to be part of it, but if not, then someone else gets an opportunity.

  25. Fran December 26th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Hey Trisha,

    Merry Christmas! How was your holiday?

  26. 27 in 2010 December 26th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Happy Chinese New Year!

  27. PAT M December 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Wang will pitch in the 3 slot, behind AJ…Not due to a skill factor, but rather due to depth of starts and the lack of early pen appearences that would be needed ….# 2 & # 5 starters aj & Joba are going to have pen reliance as opposed to CC, Wang & Pettite…

  28. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    “Happy Chinese New Year!”

    I resent that.

  29. Bronx Jeers December 26th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    I guess Eiland is picking rotation spots in terms of $$$.

    On the other hand who pays a #3 starter 16 mil.

    If no Pettitte, and with Joba as # 5, Who is #4? Hughes pitched about 100 innings total between MLB/AAA/AFL. I don’t think they should be looking at him as the answer just yet.

    Do you think they’re considering Aceves. He was pretty good in his 4 starts. Only had 1 bad inning after a rain delay in Fenway.

    I still feel they need a proven MLB pitcher that can eat up 150+ innings.

  30. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    “Actually, I’d like to see Tex in the WBC. Get that first month’s worth of bad performance out of the way. ”

    And Team Dominican Republic will be waiting. :D

    To whoop that ….

  31. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Carl – number 27 is guaranteed. Just remember this post when the Yankees retain their rightful place next season.

    The Yankees will get it done, of course, but I have this thing going on where people may laugh but it always seems to work out. When I have a gut feeling about something it seems to happen. You can’t force that kind of thing. I could regale you with all of the gut feelings I’ve had and announced here, and all have come out – but I won’t bother. Just let me say it’s different from my saying I really want something to happen – like I wanted Mussina to come back.

    Now let me make it even better and say I announced that about the Yanks taking 27 before Cashman had made any trades. So it had nothing to do with the guys we’ve picked up, though in the end it will have everything to do with them! Let’s just say I was somehow intuiting the phenomenal trades and signings we were going to have this season!

    Number 27 is on its way, baby!!!

    And about respect? How’s this for Yankee respect? My birthday is a few weeks before Christmas, and between my birthday and Christmas, I always get awesome gifts that are Yankee-oriented. And it’s always from Sox fans since everyone I know (family included) are Sox fans!

    Yes indeed it’s been a great holiday season.

    :D

  32. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    What number will Marte wear? Burnett/Marte #34

    What about Tex? Guess #25 is available for Tex.

    Dear Don,

    It would only be fitting for Mark to wear #23.. please give your blessings. (not happening).

  33. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    “Actually, I’d like to see Tex in the WBC. Get that first month’s worth of bad performance out of the way. ”

    Teixeria is only batting .187 with 1 hr and 4 rbis in week one on my ps3. :(

  34. Bernie Madoff (Red Sox fan) December 26th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Joba > CC > Wang > Bum off the street > AJ

  35. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    “What number will Marte wear? Burnett/Marte #34″

    Marte will go back to #43 since he wore it throughout his career. Marte went to #34 because Rasner wore it.

  36. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Ed,

    You have him on your roster already? Did you have trade anyone? Who did you drop from the 40 man?? :-)

  37. Jeff NJ December 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Pete will defend Wang to the death. I have news for you though, Wang is their number 3 pitcher and by year end will be number 4 if Joba stays healthy. That doesn’t mean he isn’t valuable, he is. In fact if Wang stays healthy this year, I think the Yankees should sign him to a long term deal.

    I guess this is really just questioning Burnett. You hear that everywhere. I hope and think AJ has figured it out and I’m optimistic he will at times be the best pitcher on the staff.

  38. Fran December 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Trisha,

    “Number 27 is on its way, baby!!!”
    Let’s hope you’re right on this one. Think that you will be.

  39. SJ44 December 26th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    The Yankees are always tougher on their own than they are on incoming free agents.

    This is an organization that once took Derek Jeter to arbitration…..and lost.

    Its not a big deal. Just one of those quirks the organization is known for.

    Re: Its simple. If he pitches like Wang, he will make a lot of money in this game and it will most likely come from the Yankees.

  40. able 21 December 26th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    I think the lack of respect theme about Wang is a misnomer. He is not a power pitcher that also comes with a big mouth filled with bravado. He just goes out and methodically uses that sinker to go through the lineup. Some fans prefer the former type of pitcher.In fact, some thought Mussina was the most boring pitcher in the world to watch. But did you really not want him on the Yankees?

    That’s what is so dumb about ranking pitchers 1, 2,3 etc.

  41. Global Warming December 26th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    Pete isnt biased towards Wang or anything.

    Anyway, despite Burnett being a better pitcher than Burnett I still think Wang should be slotted number two to break up the two hard throwers.

  42. SJ44 December 26th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    I think its all about innings. If Joba ends up as the #4 starter (with an innings cap), it makes sense to put a guy ahead of him who can throw a lot of innings.

    Personally, I’d slot CC between Wang and Burnett, and break up the righties in the rotation.

    If Pettitte does return, it makes setting up the rotation a little easier, vis a vie, working around Joba’s innings limitations.

  43. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

    PAT M
    December 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
    Wang will pitch in the 3 slot, behind AJ…Not due to a skill factor, but rather due to depth of starts and the lack of early pen appearences that would be needed ….# 2 & # 5 starters aj & Joba are going to have pen reliance as opposed to CC, Wang & Pettite…

    ————————————————————

    that’s about it. NYY will gelong innings from Sabathi and Wang, the vast majority of time. Burnett will give you long innings, too, but really needs to be monitored more closely (use the bullpen sooner to keep him fresh). This is where a pitcher like Pettitte is valuble. He gives you innings, also, but, more importantly, he’s left handed and is entirely different than the other four, making him ideal in the 4th slot in the rotation. Those that think that Wang isn’t a power pitcre sadly mistaken.

  44. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    This is much ado about nothing about Wang being #3.

    Every one agrees that yanks have three potential #1 starters. It does not matter whether Wang is pitching in the second slot or the third slot. Still, on pure stuff, AJ has better stuff. Comparing previous records is another fruitless excercise as they did not have the same team playing behind them.

  45. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Those that think that Wang isn’t a power ***pitcher are*** sadly mistaken.

  46. Bernie Madoff (Red Sox fan) December 26th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Here are my predictions for the AL East next season:

    Number 1 — Baltimore (97 wins)
    2 — Toronto (93)
    3 — Tampa Bay (93)
    4 — New York (91)
    5 — Red Sox (88)

  47. able 21 December 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    Green Beret – please share your thinking on Wang being a power pitcher.

  48. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Hey Fran! My holiday was very nice (really tremendous Yankee gifts and that always brings me great emotion) but the one thing I can never seem to do is have myself organized to the point that I can actually enjoy the holidays without feeling totally stressed out or exhausted! If I can ever master that aspect, I will be able to have the perfect holiday!

    How was your Christmas? I was a tad disappointed that after two great days of snow, the elements saw fit to bring enough rain and warm weather as to almost wash it all away! But it still was a white Christmas, I guess, since there still is some snow on the ground. How was your weather?

  49. LTL December 26th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Hmmm. Try to imagine yourself an opposing American league batter knowing the Yankees are coming to town. Who in the Yankees rotation would you hope to face? Wang? Joba? Wow, if Pettite turns out to be mystery # 5, lots of batting averages will take a beating against the Yankees this year.

  50. will fl December 26th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    anyone know of an online live feed of yes network? I live in tampa… our fios doesnt have yes network :/ nor does cable.

  51. Jonas December 26th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Wang is a power sinker pitcher. anyone that can throw a sinker topping out at around 95, sitting 93 is considered a power pitcher. most people think a power pitcher needs strike outs, well thats not the case. trying to lift a 93 sinker is like trying to elevate a bowling ball.

  52. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Pete,

    Why should taking a player to arbitration be viewed as insult?

    Both Mattingly and Jeter were taken to arbitration and they still show great respect to them as players.

  53. able 21 December 26th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Jonas – that’s an interesting definition. I think you are right that most, including me, think the strikeouts are part of the definition.

  54. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    will fl, I am in RI and had to get satellite television (DirectTv) in order to be able to get the Yankee network.

  55. Hang out with your wang out December 26th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Wang will win 20 games this year especially with his ability to pitch with a slider when his sinker is off. He still can improve since he started out his first full season with an under 4 era.
    Also Burnett is absolutely no more of an injury risk than the vaunted josh beckett. In fact one could argue that besides a few less starts…over the past 4 years Burnett has been the better more consistent pitcher as opposed to beckett who has just one good season out of three in the AL east.

  56. 4 x 4 December 26th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Eliand is the pitching coach, I think he knows more than any of us.

    If he says Wang is the #3, then he is the #3.

  57. Sarah December 26th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Will FL-

    Just a heads up in dealing with DirecTv. If you are outside the regional area, which you are, you would have to have ‘special permission’ to acquire the YES network. Who they ask- I’m not sure. But once it’s processed, you can get it- but all the Yankees games would be blacked out. They do not show them.

    Found this out the long/hard way dealing with them when I tried to get NESN in Texas. :)

  58. Fran December 26th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Trisha,

    Glad you had a good holiday. My holiday was good. Spent it with my boyfriend. We made a quick visit to Long Island to visit my brothers and their families.
    The weather here in NY was also rainy and in the high 40′s. The snow that was left on the ground was actually dirty and slushy – not pretty looking like on the Christmas cards!

  59. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    able 21
    December 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
    Green Beret – please share your thinking on Wang being a power pitcher.

    ————————————————————

    The Yankees have had power pitchers that didn’t strike out a lot of batters. The Yanks have had power pitchers that didn’t strike out a ton of batters….Jim Bouton, Bill Stafford, Don Gullett (with NYY and Cinncy), Mike Torres. You have a guy that throws 95+ MPH….that’s a power pitcher.

  60. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    “You have him on your roster already? Did you have trade anyone? Who did you drop from the 40 man?? ”

    there were some fake players so i moved them for Teix. :D

  61. able 21 December 26th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Green Beret. Thanks for the thoughts. You and Jonas agree and I see the viewpoint.

  62. Garym December 26th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    I agree Pete Wang is a better pitcher but Burnett has better stuff and a better upside. I do think its iteresting to think of putting wang after CC and then Burnett but also then you may have another power guy with Joba. I do think Joba is actually the 5th starter because of his innings limit, they have to skip him so its does Andy become the 4 or at this point i would just let Hughes,Kennedy Aceves battle it out. Let some young guys play, then they cant pick on the Yanks so much LOL.

  63. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Sarah, that isn’t correct regarding the YES network and DirectTv. You have to buy certain packages, but anyone can have the YES network who is willing to pay for it. And it is also incorrect about being blacked out of games. The way MLB has it set up now, the only ganes where you will not have the YES broadcast are those where you are in the market of an opposing team (for example, since I am in RI I am forced into the NESN broadcast when the Yankees play Boston but otherwise I get the YES broadcast).

  64. will fl December 26th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    yeah i know all about their bs about blackouts etc. thats why i asked if anyone had an online feed for it. I dunno any other way of getting it. I had it years ago when it launched on direct tv when i had “special” direct tv if u know what i mean …

    lol

  65. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Sarah, you do have to buy the ExtraInnings package, if that is what you’re referring to, to get MLB games. But that’s an MLB rule, having nothing to do with DirectTv.

  66. no.27 December 26th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    It doesn’t really matter who is the 1st or 2nd starter, but people need to put down the Burnett cool-aid. Wang’s 06 and 07 are better than any years Burnett has put up in the AL East and Wang was doing it as the best starter in NY, not the 2nd best starter in Toronto.

    CC has been the best pitcher in baseball over the past 2 years so it’s easy to put him at the top of the rotation. There aren’t too many other pitchers you can automatically put ahead of Wang because 1, his results have been great and 2, he’s already done it in NY.

    Kenny Rogers was great in Texas before stinking it up in the Bronx. Jaret Wright was really good in Atlanta but terrible the next year for the Yankees. I’m not saying Burnett is going to fall off like those guys, but I don’t see any reason to assume he’s going to be better than Wang.

  67. ANSKY December 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Never mind if Wang an ace or a 2 or a 3 or whatever.
    Never mind if he’s better than Burnett or CC or Joba or whomever.
    We flat-out need Wang.
    End of discussion.

  68. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Oh Will – if you buy the MLB.com television package, you can watch all of the games except the FOX blackout on a Saturday between 1:of p.m. and 4 p.m. I don’t have the necessary connection but I know you can connect your computer to your television and have the game on television via your computer.

  69. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    i first heard that wang was unhappy with the yankees last winter and that he planned on either leaving the yankees when his free agency came or holding the yankees up and making them pay for their treatment of him. he was in effect pissed off.

    i’ve long said that the yankees have jerked wang around the way they have coached him. his sinker came out of the blue in a space of a few weeks in he minors. i don’t think there is anyone in the organization right now who really understands what makes wang’s sinker tick.

    when wang starts to get hit as he occasionally does, the yankees seem to want to change the pitches he throws when in reality his sinker is so good he just needs to knock hitters off the plate so they can’t cheat up on the sinker. the beauty of a good sinker is that even when you know it’s coming, it’s hard to hit. it’s strength is it’s simplicity.

    i don’t think eiland really has much invested in wang. he wasn’t there when he was created. neil allen taught wang his sinker and is the one who understands it. eiland could probably figure it out what allen did with wang, but coaches tend to be invested in their own successes. wang will always be allen’s success.

    why change wang ? because then it’s then the new guy’s success. the problem is wang was very successful the way he was. the way the planets are aligned, it wouldn’t surprise me to see wang delegated to #3 starter especially after they mess with what made him a #1.

    whatever the outcome, i don’t think wang hasn’t been treated with the respect he deserves.

  70. 86w183 December 26th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    Based on last year of course you would list AJ # 2, but it means nothing. Either way the top three guys are all very different. If Pettite comes back you want to separate the lefties. If not, Joba and AJ should be split up.

    If no Pettite I would expect the Yanks to keep their eyes out for guys like Benson/Penny or trade possibilities. I’d be surprised to see Joba and Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves in the rotation opening day unless someone is hurt. That would be asking for the same issues they had last year.

  71. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    randy – is this based on speculation, or do you have some insided info about Eiland’s relationship with Wang?

  72. Dan Forus December 26th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Not a surprise. The Yankees were never known for treating their own players well – Torre, Pettitte, Bernie, Wang, etc.

    And if Hank had not intervened, we might have lost Posada or Mariano as well.

    Don’t be shocked if the Jeter negotiation is a messy one and he ends up elsewhere.

  73. Sarah December 26th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Trish-

    If this is true, I really wouldn’t know, but am guessing you would have a better idea. Here- DirecTv would not release NESN to my direcTv package. And the sports package I purchased blocked out every pro sporting event. I finally had to trade it in.

    This was two years ago. This was also NESN. I’m not sure exactly how it works with YES.

    Will..I would go with what she says. I’m sure she has much more experience with it than myself. I just know I didn’t qualify because I wasn’t in the region given that Texas is not close to New England. :)

  74. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    able 21
    December 26th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
    Green Beret. Thanks for the thoughts. You and Jonas agree and I see the viewpoint.

    ————————————————————

    Not a problem. Remember back to his 10 strikeout game against the Mets back in June of 2007. He threw maybe 3 sinkers that night. Everything else was up and in….hard…between 95 and 96 all night long, and they couldn’t touch him…..had absolutely no chance. He gave up two runs…one was on a strikeout WP to allow a runner on with two outs the other was because on a DP groundout. The problem was, he threw a lot of pitches and wasn’t really affective in his next two starts.

  75. yankee 822 December 26th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    It’s the shiny new toy syndrome— we got all these tremendous free agents now and nobody else matters. Wang carried us for 3 years and now he takes a backseat to the mercenaries.

  76. Adam December 26th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    I think this is simply a case of the Yankees being able to understand that stats like ERA and Wins are not indicators of future success.

  77. Vrsce December 26th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    yankee 822

    Preposterous statement, based on nothing. Just a negative baseless comment. The Yankees just negotiated a new 5mm contract with Wang.

  78. 34 Score December 26th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    So the press conference won’t be for a couple of weeks

  79. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Mel Stottlemyre wasable to keep Wang’s sinker on track, because they both had that nosedive sinker. Wang threw it a little harder, but, not by much. Stottlemyre was in the 92-93 MPH when he first came up. He had one of the best I ever saw. It was like Jack Morris’ and Clemen’s split finger fastball…Wang’s is like that.

  80. randyhater December 26th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I think Rick Peterson Jr. needs to pipe down. Who exactly is helped by him running his mouth, even in a Mickey Mouse paper like the Record? Pitching coaches should be seen and not heard.

    If we don’t bring back Pettitte, how about Pavano? Burnett’s going to need someone to show him around Tampa while he rehabs, and it would be convenient if it were another guy with millions of dollars to blow just so there’s none of those awkward situations where the rich friend always gets stuck picking up the check.

  81. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    as far as wang being a power pitcher or not there’s a problem. yes he can throw 95mph when he wants to, but one key to his sinker is taking a shorter stride which increase sink and velocity.

    if you think about it , it’s easy to understand that taking a long stride increases velocity. the problem is that with the long stride created by trying to throw hard, the hand tends to get under the ball on release. not what you want on a sinker.

    one of the changes that allen did when he taught wang the sinker was making him take a shorter stride. wang’s natural stride is longer than the one that is optimal for his sinker. when he gets out of whack , over striding tends to be a major problem.

    so when we see 95 from wang he’s probably over striding and his sinker is going to straighten out. i’d rather have 93 with more sink than 95 and less sink.

  82. able 21 December 26th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    I don’t understand why the Red Sox fans who come around here aren’t talking up the improvements the management has made for the coming year.

    http://www.bizofbaseball.com/i.....;Itemid=56

  83. harwood December 26th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    I think Wang will pitch second in the rotation for the reason you stated Pete. But all injuries being equal Burnett is better.
    However I think if Joba is healthy and handled correctly this year he will be the dominant pitcher in the rotation.
    I dont think Wang would really be insulted by being called #3 in a rotation throwing Joba 5th. Its a monster team on paper.

  84. TGFizeek December 26th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Assigning numbers to starters is kinda dumb because it’s more situational than a ranking. Otherwise no one would be planning Joba as the fifth starter. It’s to rest his arm and limit his innings, not because he’s the worst starter in our rotation.
    It does raise an interesting conversation as to whether to split the power pitchers with Wang, split the righties with CC, try to estimate who will need the pen and split them with guys who eat up innings. Here’s my best guess:

    CC
    Burnette
    Wang
    Petitte
    Joba

    CC and Wang seem most reliable to me so you’ve got to split them. I still think Petitte comes back, but the Yankees have to concede something to him so he can save face (would any of you go to work next year for a very public 40% pay cut?). Give the guy $12 mil and lets go into the season.

  85. SJ44 December 26th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    We should all be “shoved aside” in our gigs the way Wang was the past few days.

    In a week where there is nothing to whine about in Yankeeland, its always comforting to see some folks strain to find something to whine about re: the Yankees.

    If Wang wants to leave in a few years via free agency, he’s going to have to pitch very well to make it worth his while. Meaning, the Yankees get a very motivated and productive pitcher. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

    They jerked around Jeter, Bernie, Mariano, even Donnie Baseball, prior to their free agent years. Its no big deal, its the Yankee Way. Didn’t seem to stop those guys from becoming career Yankees.

    Give me a healthy and motivated Wang, for whatever his reasons are to be motivated, and you can pencil in 18-20 wins and 210-220 innings.

    I’ll leave it to others as to whether or not that’s “ace” worthy. I just know that if he puts up those numbers, the team will be very successful in 2009.

  86. 66 stripes December 26th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Signing Cano to a long term deal instead of Wang was absurd.

    Wang is everything opposite of Cano yet he doesn’t get rewarded.

  87. tom December 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    What’s wrong with being a #3 starter?

    It’s a testament to how stacked our rotation is.

  88. T15D23 December 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    I agree with Eiland’s assessment. Wang, while great numbers (who else on the team has great numbers and doesn’t deliver, hmmmm, starts with an “A”) is woeful against tough teams and forget the post season.

    Additionally, this is a statement of how good the #1 and #2 are expected to be.

    As for Pettitte, I find this a travesty if he is not in pinstripes. They ran him out of town in 2003, he pitches hurt for the team in 2008 and they give him a pay cut? Where is A-Frauds pay cut?

    Unreal.

  89. Adam December 26th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    “Don’t be shocked if the Jeter negotiation is a messy one and he ends up elsewhere.”

    If he thinks he is going to get a contract anywhere near his current one then he can go elsewhere as far as I’m concerned. It’s ridiculous that he’s one of the top 4 highest paid players in baseball.

  90. Adam December 26th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    “he pitches hurt for the team in 2008 and they give him a pay cut? Where is A-Frauds pay cut?”

    This is why people hate Yankees fans. Morons like you make us all look bad.

  91. Yanks 1996 December 26th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Burnett gets strikeouts, Wang doesn’t.

  92. randyhater December 26th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Jeter’s contract, like his current one, will be done quietly and without rancor. He will never wear another team’s uniform.

  93. hardwired December 26th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I would say it’s a shrewd move to peg him as a #3 starter in order to establish the bar for the eventual long-term deal. However, any agent w/an iota of competence can simply point to his sparkling #s (WHAT A WINNING %!!!) to easily refute that erroneous slotting. That said, Wang is an ersatz “ace” so my guess is he’ll eventually get #2 starter’s $$$.

  94. Espresso December 26th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Like others have said, Wang is a power pitcher, just not a strike out pitcher. CC is a lefty and AJ isn’t so that should be difference enough. CC will eat innings. Wang will eat innings, AJ might not. Joba might not. This will give the bullpen rest.

    Wang is a beast. Prediction: he wins the most games in the AL this year and is fifth in Cy Young voting.

  95. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Sarah, I guess it’s possible because of the individual networks? Maybe NESN’s deal with DirectTV is different from YES’s? The only thing I can speak to is being in RI and getting DirectTv, and wanting the YES network. While I would think it would work the same way regardless of location, I could be wrong.

  96. TGFizeek December 26th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Dan Forus
    December 26th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
    Not a surprise. The Yankees were never known for treating their own players well – Torre, Pettitte, Bernie, Wang, etc.

    Outrageous. The Yankees take better care of fading stars than any other franchise. Every one of those guys walked on a contract offer except Petitte when he went to the Astros and we brought him back when they were done with him. Take a look at a larger sample size, look at Reggie, Cone, O’Neil, all guys staying close to the organization. Look at the exhorbant contracts of Rivera and Posada! OUTRAGEOUS!!

  97. Raja December 26th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    How does the Yankees top 4 of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett and Joba compare with
    a) the best 4 from other starting rotations?
    b) the best 4 from another team in the past?

    I think this is about as formidable as it can get.

  98. Sevrx December 26th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    I’m sure Cashman tried to get A-Fraud to take a paycut, but the union denied him. Cashman is very diligent like that, he will make sure every corner is clean. If there was a way for A=Fraud to take a paycut, it would have been done.

  99. aardvark December 26th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    i’d still take Beckett-Lester-Matsuzaka-Masterson over any rotation in baseball

  100. Zolio December 26th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    This is going to be a LONG, LONG winter

  101. Paddy R December 26th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    agree with everything here pete. ranking your starters is useless, but wang should be pitching the second game of the season. not only is his contact style a nice change of pace between two bat missers, but he’s a better (meaning more productive) pitcher than burnett. burnett has better stuff, but has never put together a season that was as good as either wang’s 06 or 07. and putting it together is what being productive is all about. burnett wows you more, but wang has done a better job getting the job done, which is the most important thing. until something says otherwise, wang is better than burnett.

    either way, i’m glad both are in our rotation!

  102. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Raja
    December 26th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
    How does the Yankees top 4 of Sabathia, Wang, Burnett and Joba compare with
    a) the best 4 from other starting rotations?
    b) the best 4 from another team in the past?

    I think this is about as formidable as it can get.

    ————————————————————

    There won’t be a lot of difference between the top four starters on the Yanks, Boston and Tampa. A healthy Pettitte would tip the scales towards NYY for the top rotation.

  103. Burbank December 26th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    If we have Hughes in the rotation, would it be the hardest throwing rotation in MLB history?

  104. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    “In a week where there is nothing to whine about in Yankeeland, its always comforting to see some folks strain to find something to whine about re: the Yankees.”

    sj-
    i have to admit that bashing the yankees handling of wan felt really good. the giddiness and after glow of the teixeira signing on top of sabathia and burnett were starting to feel a little too much.

    i mean, i was actually complimenting cashman( which he deserves), and i was getting way out of my comfort zone. i feel much better now. lol.

  105. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    “i’d still take Beckett-Lester-Matsuzaka-Masterson over any rotation in baseball”

    where you going to take them, third place ?

  106. SJ44 December 26th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    lol@Randy!

    Hope the holidays have been good to you.

    I still think there could be some roster movement in January. If Pettitte doesn’t come around, they may take a one year flyer on back end of the rotation arm.

    I am hoping they don’t trade any of the OF’s. What looks like a glut in December always changes once they get under way.

    Guys get hurt, underperform, etc. For a change, I like the depth and Girardi will be able to mix and match some of these guys to take advantage of matchups.

  107. pat December 26th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    “Where is A-Frauds pay cut?”

    Calling a person a stupid nickname makes me feel like I’m speaking with a 10 year old but….once a player signs a contract, that’s the deal. Do overs might fly on the playground but not in professional sports.

  108. gianthinker December 26th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Very well said (about Wang) Peter. It bothered me the entire time watching the CC/AJ press conference and they kept mentioning Mo and Joba and NOT ONCE did anyone bring up Wang. CC was a no brainer signing. The reason why Burnett is a good signing isn’t because he gives up a super #2 but because he makes us have one of THE VERY BEST #1-3 in ALL OF BASEBALL. I personally see our rotation as 1-CC, 2-Wang, 3-AJ, 4-Jobs, 5-Whoever. Your argument about breaking up the power arms is kind of a mute point since Joba is also a power pitcher but I DO think Wang will find himself right back at the top of the rotation before we get too far into the season. Wang is clearly dis-respected.

  109. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Burbank
    December 26th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
    If we have Hughes in the rotation, would it be the hardest throwing rotation in MLB history?

    ————————————————————

    No, that would be the ’68-’70 Mets or the 73-74 Angels.

  110. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference......ma01.shtml

    look who is sponsoring Teixeria’s page. LOL

  111. rover December 26th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Slotted into a number 3 can only make Wanger better, record wise. He won’t be under the pressure to perform and just won’t compete agains number 1′s all that often. He could easily win 20+ this year.
    It is just more exciting to watch a guy strikeout 10-15 guys than it is to watch wanger throw 15 groundouts. Wang just goes on winning oh so quietly.
    If andy comes back I would like to see him opene the stadium if he does not, I honestly believe that honor should be wangs. jmo

  112. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Ed – American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference......ma01.shtml

    look who is sponsoring Teixeria’s page. LOL

    —————————————————-

    LOL!

    Arod + Giambi + Damon + Contreras + Igawa + Sheffield + Vazquez + Abreu + Matsui + Pavano + Brown + Johnson + Mussina = 0 Yankee World Series Rings.

    Oy!

  113. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    “I am hoping they don’t trade any of the OF’s. What looks like a glut in December always changes once they get under way.”

    sj-

    the holidays have been great. hope yours were also. it’s hard not be happy as far as being a yankee fan.

    i’m in total agreement with you about the outfield. and that goes with starting pitching also. if they sign pettitte it looks like they have almost too much , but that never happens once the season gets going.

    i think what the red sox are going to do now to counter the yankees moves is going to be the next interesting thing to watch. we fans need something. my buddy brian has almost made the yankees so good we don’t have alot to really worry about right now.

    i can’t even get my red sox fans here on the cape to engage in baseball discussions since teixeira was snatched from under their christmas tree. i find myself trying to cheer them up by telling them how much money theo has to spend.

    they’re just stunned right now.

  114. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    SA,

    hope you had a nice christmas. they are such haters! hahahas. :D

  115. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    S.A.-Brian “The Ninja” Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love
    December 26th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
    Ed – American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference......ma01.shtml

    look who is sponsoring Teixeria’s page. LOL
    ——————————————————————————
    LOL!

    Arod + Giambi + Damon + Contreras + Igawa + Sheffield + Vazquez + Abreu + Matsui + Pavano + Brown + Johnson + Mussina = 0 Yankee World Series Rings.

    Oy!

    ————————————————————

    I wonder how much time and space it would take to type up 86 years of stars that didn’t win anything?

  116. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Ed-My Christmas was good! Hope yours was great too. :D

  117. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    I wonder how much time and space it would take to type up 86 years of stars that didn’t win anything?

    ——————————————————

    Hahahaha

    More time than I have. :)

  118. Jay B December 26th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    I still like Wang better than CC and AJ…hes the only one whose proven that he can pitch in NY and win. CC was 6-8 last year before he got traded to the NL, AJ was 18-10, with 4 dominating performances against the yanks… If you take that away, his numbers were VERY mediocre against everyone else even considering the fact that this was his contract/opt-out year.

  119. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    SA,

    mines was awesome as well. :D

  120. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Carl Pavano’s page-Sponsored by The Jason Giambi Mustache Squad:

    “Carl Pavano is to the Yankees as the movie Ghost Dad is to American cinema. Not even a mustache could save that guy.”

    http://www.baseball-reference......ca01.shtml

  121. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    “Carl Pavano is to the Yankees as the movie Ghost Dad is to American cinema. Not even a mustache could save that guy.”

    LOL burn…

  122. Dan December 26th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    Heyman on WFAN now

    - Teixeria enjoyed his time in Anahiem and really wanted to go back to the Angels and was upset when they pulled their offer. Boras went back to them after they pulled the offer and offered to go there for 8/$176, but the Angels refused and then he preferred the Yankees among the east coast teams.

    - Sox might go for Fuentes or someone and try and fill out in other areas, but they really wanted Teixeria in the #3-4 spot.

  123. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Check Kei Igawa’s

    http://www.baseball-reference......ke01.shtml

  124. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Lack of respect for Wang? I don’t see it – he’s a very good pitcher. What have the Yankees done to show him disrespect? So what if Eiland referred to him as the #3 starter? Now I really think people are looking for things to pick on. Wang is a big boy – if he’s upset about it, he’ll make it known.

    Doreen, you bet I’m tired of these clowns and their bitter tirades against the Yankees. I just can not believe how little objectivity there is in this profession. I think I trust opinions of Yankee fans on message boards more than I do the sportswriters who make a living at this. These sportswriters think fans are idiots who can’t think for themselves. Thus, the regurgitated garbage that spills from their computers.

    Glad to see that I wasn’t the only one with that reaction to Davidoff’s blog. Davidoff, Sherman, Madden, Lupica – they are all interchangeable. I actually liked Davidoff before his last couple of pieces; now? I’ll avoid him, just like I avoid the others. I find that I am a lot happier and a lot less frustrated when I confine myself to reading the Yankee boards. I’m tired of depending on sportswriters for my happiness – especially when none of them have an objective bone in their body. I was one who was concerned about the length of the contract to Tex – it was mostly why I didn’t think the Yanks should sign him. I guess the fact is, though, he’s a very good player and should be for awhile. What are the odds that the next 1B the Yankees develop or trade for will be as good? Not very. I hope the guy ages well, lol.

    I also have a question about Swisher. I’m not familiar with him, but Yankee fans on all boards seem to love this pickup. Most would rather trade high on Nady – esp. since he will be a FA at the end of the year. What do you guys think about Nick? Where will he play since 1B is out? Do you think the Yanks will trade him?

  125. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    What the hell:

    “If Matsui is Godzilla, then ARod is Ghidorah — a big egotistical 3-headed whiff monster who is the master of the 3-run homerun in the 3rd inning. The Yanks have signed Ghidorah to a 10-year contract. Let’s hope Godzilla stays in town awhile longer.”

    http://www.baseball-reference......hi01.shtml

  126. Tseng December 26th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Hahaha, brandon. That was funny.

  127. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    “Teixeria enjoyed his time in Anahiem and really wanted to go back to the Angels and was upset when they pulled their offer. Boras went back to them after they pulled the offer and offered to go there for 8/$176, but the Angels refused and then he preferred the Yankees among the east coast teams.”

    So he really wanted to be an Angel ?…hmmm

  128. Tseng December 26th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    3 run homers in the third inning aren’t bad. Getting it in the third just means you (hopefully) don’t need it later in the 9th.

  129. Frank December 26th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    I agree with you Pete. Wang should be the #2 for sure with burnett behind him. Wang is the better pitcher.

    For all of the people saying “he doesn’t strike people out,” you obviously don’t watch baseball. There are plenty of pitchers who are very successful without striking out too may guys, and Wang is one of them. Oh, and yeah, his Strikeout rate has gone up in recent years.

  130. AP December 26th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    Brandon – That’s what it sounds like.

    But clearly he wanted to be here over Boston, we just weren’t his first choice overall.

  131. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    “Teixeria enjoyed his time in Anahiem and really wanted to go back to the Angels and was upset when they pulled their offer. Boras went back to them after they pulled the offer and offered to go there for 8/$176, but the Angels refused and then he preferred the Yankees among the east coast teams.”

    This is another case of Boros using Heyman.
    Some spadework to get angels to bid on Manny.

  132. James 3D December 26th, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Swisher was obtained for Betemit and Marquez. He is getting paid $5 mil this year, $6.5 in 2010, and $9 mil in 2011.

    He doesn’t have anywhere close to the value of Nady in a trade, who is coming off a .305/25 HR/97 RBI season and is a free agent and is making peanuts.

    We have no outfielders on the team past this year, it would be wise to hang on to Swisher.

  133. jax gmen December 26th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    swisher hit .219 last year and run out of town and obtained for betemit

    nady hit .300 with 25 HRs, 97 RBIs and obtained for tabata

    do the math,

  134. Morris December 26th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    All these guys play the “I always wanted to be a Yankee card”, after the fact.

    It’s hilarious. Burnett may be the only one who genuinely did considering he had the same offer from us and Atlanta and he chose us.

  135. John December 26th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    A pitching coach makes a remark in the middle of the winter off-season about one of his guys being a number #3 starter and that is interpreted as the organization has no respect for said pitcher.

    LOL.

    Sports writing to stir up controversy at its finest…

  136. goin for 27 December 26th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Morris,

    If we somehow acquired Peavy, I’m sure he would do the same thing lol. Such phonies. As long as they perform, thats all that matters.

  137. Matthew Cohen December 26th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Wang’s agent messed up last year plain and simple. He overreached and lost.

    But Pete is right – the childish gloating by the Yanks after they won in arbitration was unnecessary and disrespectful.

    Wang is clearly a more valuable pitcher tan Burnett if you look at runs prevented above a replacement starter over the last 3 years (even considering his fluke injury last year).

    People forget that strikeouts are only one of the 3 things that a pitcher controls. Burnett is clearly better here over the last 3 years (

  138. no.27 December 26th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    I think the Yankees are being smart by not giving Wang a contract before his arbitration is up. They control him til his 30 and by then will have a better idea of how he can pitch into his 30s and what Joba, Hughes, and the rest of the young arms on the team will be able to contribute.

    The idea that he doesn’t pitch well against good teams is just wrong. Wang misses half a season and people forget how good he’s been for us.

  139. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Oh come on, now we have to believe that Tex wanted to stay with the Angels? LOL Sheesh, that’s why there were so many reports that he wanted to play on the East Coast. I will grant that I heard Heyman say once that Tex did enjoy CA more than he thought he would, but I don’t buy this little tidbit for an instant.

  140. Crazy Man December 26th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    If Hughes shows something (not holding my breath though) in ST, then Wang may very well end up being the #5 starter, or could even be overtaken by Phil Coke and have to fight for his rotation spot back.

  141. Davios December 26th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    I think Pete has been great with his blog in that it gives us a closer look at aspects inside the Yankee clubhouse and what not. That being said, I love how every time someone doesn’t give out a glowing review of Wang Pete needs to put up this absurd Rodney Dangerfield “respect” gimmick. Meanwhile Arod puts up some of the best numbers in the league, yet Pete has a good ol time taking jabs at him.

    He’ll likely say, well Alex is a great player but when it counts he doesn’t cut it. To that I would respond Wang pitched twice in a playoff series against Cleveland and was a punching bag. Now the fact that Pete wrote a book about Wang wouldn’t come in to play in all of this could it? Naaaaaah

  142. michelle b. (X is the best letter in the alphabet!) December 26th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    If you havent read this, do so. Its Randy Levine’s retort to the ESPN and the naysayers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....f=baseball

  143. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Why are we to believe Heyman now?

  144. PAT M December 26th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Maybe Mark liked it out here, but his wife hated the uppitiness and pretenious culture of Newport Beach….No way was he returning….

  145. Here We Go Teix December 26th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “A lot of people say that it was because of Andy’s 16 mil we didn’t go for the Johan deal.. even though that is untrue, Andy had in his mind that he didn’t want people to think the Yankees didn’t go after Tex because of him. Andy is nothing short of a great guy and brings a lot to the clubhouse.”

    A lot of people are right then. Andy just “happened” to re-sign, after shedding so much doubt, AS the Yank’s were in serious negotiations for Santana. He knew he was a goner had the Yanks made a trade. After he re-signed, Cashman said that the Yanks cannot afford both lefties, so the Santana dealings fizzled.

    Pettitte and his agents, the Hendricks brothers, play this drama every year (with Clemens too) and frankly, I’m sick of them. Pettitte has no leverage after they way he pitched last year, and is hardly the choir boy some seem to pretend he is. The Yanks went above and beyond supporting this lying cheat last year, and he should have jumped at the 10 million offer.

  146. Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Betsy – Just like the media said CC would never come to NY and only wanted to go West?

    Never believe these reports, the truth rarely ever goes public. It’s not outrageous that he wanted to back to Anaheim.

  147. Matthew Cohen December 26th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    People forget that strikeouts are only one of the 3 things that a pitcher controls. Burnett is clearly better here over the last 3 years (8.9 to 4.3).

    Wang is better in BB/9 (2.7 to 3.2) and HR/9 (.4 to 1.0). When he is on, he misses low not high like a fastball pitcher (Burnett). Also, the sink on his pitches makes them hard to hit in the air.

    Net, net, Wang’s FIP is 3.76 to 3.71 for Burnett, a wash. Wang has averaged 171 IP to Burnett’s 174.

    So strike my previous statement – they are so close it’s a statistical wash in terms of runs prevented. A more complex formula that takes into account % GB/FB/LD might give Wang a small edge.

    Given that Wang’s injury was a fluke and Burnett has had a history of injuries, I’ll take Wang.

    The truth is, with Derek Jeter at shortstop, Wang is more valuable to another team. No sense having a groundball pitcher with a shortstop with limited range.

    The Yanks will sign Wang to a long term deal unless he bombs in the playoffs again.

  148. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 26th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Crazy Man December 26th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    If Hughes shows something (not holding my breath though) in ST, then Wang may very well end up being the #5 starter, or could even be overtaken by Phil Coke and have to fight for his rotation spot back.

    —————————————————–

    :|

  149. Yanks 77 December 26th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    What incentive is there for Heyman to lie? And he gave out actual figures of what Boras offered LAA in order to sign him ($176… which is less than what we signed him for).

    Doesn’t sound like someone who is making things up. Heyman doesn’t need to lie on Boras’ behalf anymore about Teix, the negotiation is over.

    The same reports who said Teix wanted to come East are the same idiots who said Sabathia wanted no part of New York.

  150. Here We Go Teix December 26th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Here’s the kicker, Pete. If Joba delivers, it’s arguable that Wang will be our 4th best pitcher. This isn’t about respect.

  151. Matthew Cohen December 26th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    An interesting aside to this post … Andy Pettite’s FIP over the last 2 years in the AL is 3.74.

    The Yanks want him to take $6 million less than the injury-prone Burnett.

    If anyone wants to feel disrespected, I think Andy has a case for that ahead of Wang.

  152. Chris from NJ December 26th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    Wang is a stud pitcher, I think we forget how good he is because we didn’t see him for half a season last year. Winning 19 games two years in a row in the very tough AL east is a huge accomplishment, and Wang did that with a terrible defensive infield. If Jeter could get to his left, Wang could easily have won 20+ games. The only real black spot on Wang’s record is his poor 2007 playoff performance when the talking heads decided he wasn’t an ‘ace’. The guy gives you tremendous innings, lots of wins despite of a terrible defence. This guy would be the unquestioned ace in maybe 20 MLB ballclubs.

    I hope that the Yankees reward Wang with a nice 3 or 4 year deal when he’s a FA.

  153. RFront December 26th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    LOL

    amazing. Now people here feel slighted if Teixeria wanted to go back to Anaheim? So Tex needed to always want to wear the pinstripes in order for you to feel secure?

  154. Welcome to NY, Tex! December 26th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    I don’t believe that Heyman/Boras BS at all. It was known all along that Tex really wanted to come back east. Even Hunter said he spoke to him and it was obvious he wanted to come east. Maybe if it was between the Angels, Orioles and Nats then he would of went back to the Angels. Also the Yanks weren’t involved until the very last day or so. So he might of been thinking about the Angels especially if he didn’t want to go to Boston because he and Boras didn’t even know if the Yanks were going to make an offer. It would of been similiar to if CC got an offer from a west coast team…Why would Tex of taken $4m less from the Angels to go west?!! Unless that was before Boras knew that Yanks were involved.

  155. 66 'Stripes December 26th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Teixeria wanted to go back to the Angels and willing to take less is somehow important?

    Eliand getting criticized for some off-hand remark about Wang?

    Slow news day…

  156. AJ YANKS December 26th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    Who cares if the Yankees were his first, second, third, or fourth choice?

    He’s a Yankee and we stole him away from Boston. That’s all that matters.

  157. A-List December 26th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Heyman is the one who broke the story of the Yankees signing Teixeria

    Heyman is Boras’ right hand man, he has the best info about his clients.

    You never trust Heyman during the stretch of negotiations, but during the late stages and after the agreement, he has the best info of anyone.

  158. Cal Bears December 26th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    I don’t see anyway that Kennedy or Aceves beat out a motivated Hughes in an open competition. Can he atleast have some real competition? Bring in Freddy Garcia or someone.

    Ready or not kid, here you come!

  159. Moore December 26th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    In reality, the rotation should be like this

    1. Ace Joba
    2. Co-Ace Sabathia
    3. Burnett
    4. Wang

    large gap

    5. Hughes

    Maybe slide Phil Coke somewhere inbetween.

  160. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    I don’t believe it’s outrageous that he would have wanted to go back to Anaheim – I’m sure it’s beautiful and a wonderful place to live. That begs the question – why didn’t he sign with them? The Angels pulled out because they got the impression (I’m assuming they had numerous talks with Tex/Boras) that Tex wanted to be on the East Coast.

    I ask why we should believe Heyman because there are a lot of smoking guns (meaning articles) saying Tex wanted to play on the East Coast and he wanted to be a Yankee. Why aren’t there any stories, other than Heyman on the radio, saying Tex’s first choice would have been to remain in LA? Is Heyman getting his info from Boras? If so, why would Boras say that now? Think the Yankees would be happy about this?

    Tex is quoted (someone on this board posted it in a recent thread, but I’m not sure which one) as saying he loved NYC, so I’m not worried about that. I recall the quote and you could tell he was genuine about it. I just find this very curious.

  161. Front Line December 26th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    If Joba could throw 200 innings, I’d agree with you.

  162. sweet lou December 26th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    The only thing we can gather is that he really wanted no part of Boston unless he was left with no choice.

    It sounds like Boras gave Anahiem a ‘buy now’ option for $176 just like he did to us for $180. I’d imagine finances had more to do with LAA pulling the offer more than anything else. They realized they were not going to have the high bid and were at their final offer and decided not even to waste their time considering the bidding was already way past their limit.

  163. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Yanks77, so Tex would have taken several million $$$ less to play for Anaheim?

    I guess I wonder why you put stock in what Heyman said and yet everyone else said Tex wanted to come to NYY? By the way, people who said CC wanted to play in CA were not wrong. He clearly would have preferred it, but he didn’t get any offers. He is now all-in with being a Yankee and appears perfectly content, but he did admit that he would have give strong consideration to any CA team that made him an offer.

  164. Boston Dave December 26th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    People seem to forget that when Wang is right, he throws 90 pitch complete games. The strikeout pitchers need 135 pitches to get through 9. Sure a strikeout is great but so are the extra double plays that Wang generates and throwing less pitches can’t be a bad thing.

    Pete is right. Results are all that matter. And Wang’s sample size is large enough now that we know he’s legit.

  165. Freddy December 26th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Does it really matter if Tex wanted to go to the Angels? We got the big bat we needed now people are paranoid about whether or not we were his first choice, as if it matters. Are people ever happy about anything?

  166. Brad December 26th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    It’s hilarious how Boston fans attempt to justify losing out with Teixeira with heavy usage of the word “if”.
    The team still doesn’t have a catcher of major league caliber on their roster and if they seek one, it’s going to cost some of their minor talent that they’d prefer not to part with.
    They’ve done nothing to catch up with the Rays. The main focus of the Yankees is to catch the team that won the AL East division and ALCS last year.

  167. bru December 26th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Even Tuesday, hours before Teixeira agreed to terms, the Yankees were pessimistic about getting the 28-year-old slugger, the source said. Boras told the Yankees they needed a 10-year deal, with the last two years as player options. That got an absolute no from the Yankees, who had offered eight years and $180 million ($22.5 million per year).

    Around midday Tuesday, Boras said Teixeira would agree to an eight-year contract, but only if the average annual value was $24 million per year, making the total contract value $192 million. The Yankees conferred, then told Boras no, that they had made a fair yet firm offer and would stand pat, the source said. Boras responded by saying that Teixeira likely would be a Red Sox.

    The Yankees refused to budge from their offer, and 20 minutes later, Boras called back and said Teixeira would take their eight-year, $180-million offer.

  168. bru December 26th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    BY KAT O’BRIEN | kat.obrien@newsday.com

    the above by

  169. Boston Dave December 26th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    The fact that Joba isn’t going to throw close to 200 innings (in an ideal world) is more reason to make sure they get Pettitte. As it stands now they need a #5 starter as well as a #4 starter for 8-10 starts so that Joba can stay on his innings limit. This assumes no injuries.

    Pettitte or not, they need another innings eater. Hughes may be the answer but why risk it?

  170. GOAT December 26th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Who said Tex only wanted to come to NYY? All I read was that he wanted to be here over Boston. Nowhere did it say we were his first choice and wanted to be here all along.

    Not hard to believe that ANA was his first choice.

  171. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....-to-angels

    Heyman had already stated in the above blog (after Angels had pulled their offer) that Tex was interested in returning to CA. I don’t doubt the interest was genuine; I just doubt how interested he was as opposed to other teams. Well, I think it’s pretty obvious that he would have preferred not to play for Boston…so I guess it comes down to CA or NY.

    If this WERE true, by the way, then it makes Boras look bad. It means that he waited on the Angels so long, made it look to the Angels that Tex preferred the East Coast so much, that Tex’s preferred team completely pulled out. How is that doing right by his client if his client wanted to be there? I just think there’s something fishy about it.

  172. No Return December 26th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    If all the offers were equal, He probably would have chosen Anahiem. But he is a Boras client, and he will go to the highest dollar (and the exception was the Nationals). It’s not like he took a discount to come here, he got $10 million more than the Red Sox offer just to come here. He is a prototypical Boras client.

  173. bru December 26th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:42 am EST

    Red Sox may avoid free agents whenever possible from now onIn the short term, the loss of free agent Mark Teixeira to the New York Yankees is a stinging disappointment for the Boston Red Sox, who once more were trumped at the 11th hour, outbid by their archrivals for a coveted player.

    But in the long run, that disappointment may give way to a sea change in how the Red Sox operate. Reminded again how futile it can be to get into checkbook duels with the Yankees, indications are that the Sox are leaning toward swearing off big-ticket free agents for good while continuing to emphasize scouting and player development, according to the Boston Herald.

    That philosophical shift isn’t as radical as it may first appear. As general manager Theo Epstein pointedly noted at the winter meetings earlier this month, the current ownership group has given out just two free agent contracts of more than $40 million since taking over in February 2002 — the $70 million deal for J.D. Drew and the $52 million outlay — to say nothing of the $51 million posting bid — for Daisuke Matsuzaka.

    In general, the Red Sox have viewed free agency as an unnecessarily expensive and often inefficient means of player procurement. They made an exception for Teixeira, noting that at 28 he was a rare package of run-producing skill, on-base ability and defensive excellence.

    The prospect of landing Teixeira was enough for the Sox to contemplate a realignment of their infield, with Kevin Youkilis [stats] shifting back to third base and Mike Lowell likely traded.

    But the process — including Lowell feeling betrayed — left them with a sour taste in their mouth and made them determined to avoid the market whenever possible.

    Source: Boston Herald

    Related: Daisuke Matsuzaka, Kevin Youkilis, Mark T

  174. vtred December 26th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    The fact that Teixeria had such resentment towards Boston is a major plus in my book, that alone should make everyone love him.

  175. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    No Return, are you basing your comment that Tex would have gone back to CA if all offers were equal just on what Heyman wrote?

  176. Here We Go Teix December 26th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    “BY KAT O’BRIEN | kat.obrien@newsday.com

    the above by”

    Thanks for her email address. Now what should I write her?

  177. CB December 26th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    “An interesting aside to this post … Andy Pettite’s FIP over the last 2 years in the AL is 3.74.”

    FIP is a very limited statistic with respect to Pettite and most likely doesn’t give an accurate picture of “how good” pettite was as a pitcher.

    FIP implicitly assumes that any pitcher’s ability to prevent contact from turning into base hits is a random variable.

    Yet during Pettite’s career his BABIP over and over again is hire than the assumed pitcher average of .300. Pettite’s had a long career and the empirically there’s no evidence to expect that Pettite’s BABIP should be .300.

    FIP makes assumptions that make Pettite a better pitcher than he really was last year.

    I think this is well illustrated by the discrepancy between Pettite’s FIP and this tERA. Pettite’s tRA last year was 4.5 making his tERA 4.23 – better than his ERA but not close to as good as his FIP suggests.

  178. bru December 26th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    According to Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News:

    The Yankees are looking to move two from a group of outfielders of Xavier Nady, Nick Swisher and Hideki Matsui. The Angels, Texas, Oakland and Atlanta are considered to have interest.

    Joel Sherman has noted that the Braves attempted to acquire Swisher from the White Sox before the Yankees did. The Angels seem content with their outfield. Sherman and Ringolsby both seem to think the Yanks prefer to retain Johnny Damon.

    Sherman cautioned that the “glut of hitters” remaining on the free agent market will make it more difficult for the Yankees to move one of their corner guys. From the emails I receive, Yankees fans would most like to see Matsui dealt. Perhaps he will be, but I believe his current trade value is negative. 34 years old, full no-trade clause, $13MM salary in ’09, September knee surgery and a questionable ability to play the outfield.

  179. Zolio December 26th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    What about Randy Johnson for the 5th spot if he comes cheap?

  180. Patrick Bateman December 26th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    Hate to rain on your parade Peter, but people have been putting Wang in the 3 spot long before Eiland did it.

    Way back at the Press Conf for CC and Burnett, nobody even mentioned Wang. Everyone, including Kim Jones and Michael Kay kept asking Burnett if he minded being the #2 guy behind CC like he was with Roy in Toronto.

    The only problem with Wang as a #2 is if the Yankees do not gain homefield for the playoffs, the #2 starter would have to play on the road. Wang’s splits obviously favor him at home vs away.

  181. Phil December 26th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Interesting thread. Without knowing what the reporter said that lead Eiland to say Wang was the #3, I’ll leave it alone. Wang is still under Yankee control for a few more years and won’t be a free agent until he’s in his early 30′s. There was no incentive to tie him up long term, he already is, and while Burnett has an injury history, so does Wang. If Wang is healthy and ready to rock, I might be tempted to make him the #2, but I don’t think it matters much. They might want the two guys who had the most ip’s last year at 1 and 2.

    As per Heyman! There was a report in the LA Times last week that the Angels only withdrew their offer after they were told they weren’t gonna get him.

  182. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    No Return, I basically don’t consider $10 million dollars (less than $2 million a year annually over the 8 years of the contract) anything but chump change. It’s not like the Yankees had to overwhelm Tex to come here…….

    I don’t know, I guess it shouldn’t matter to me, but I would prefer to believe that Tex really wanted to be a Yankees. Believe me, I’m not debating the point just because I’m living in a fantasy world, lol……I would like to see more proof than just Heyman on WFAN. Shoot, my happiness may be fading a bit, lol

  183. CB December 26th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “People forget that strikeouts are only one of the 3 things that a pitcher controls. Burnett is clearly better here over the last 3 years”

    There are far more 3 things a pitcher controls. In this regard FIP makes very little sense and isn’t conceptually sound in any way.

    And FIP and other context independent methods for evaluating pitching are not adequate ways of assessing Wang.

  184. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    “I love how every time someone doesn’t give out a glowing review of Wang Pete needs to put up this absurd Rodney Dangerfield “respect” gimmick. Meanwhile Arod puts up some of the best numbers in the league, yet Pete has a good ol time taking jabs at him.”

    I can’t resist agreeing with you.
    Well said.
    You can include Girardi to that group as well.

  185. Frank from Chatham December 26th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    An interesting exercise would be to estimate how many innings pitched and wins the ’09 Yank starters will have.

    Maybe then, Pettitte’s value in ’09 would be more appreciated. As a #4, he could be an innings eater at an attractive annual.

    From experience, we know that except for CC and Wang, no one has that track record. Especially, Chamberlain, Hughes & Aceves.

  186. harwood December 26th, 2008 at 6:17 pm


    Zolio December 26th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    What about Randy Johnson for the 5th spot if he comes cheap?

    I thought this site had a profanity filter.

  187. Felix the Gardener December 26th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Teix didn’t go back to the Angels because their offer was far below the other teams.

    Boras offered him back to Anahiem at a discount ($176 if Heyman is to be believed), but the Angels didn’t want him at that price. If he called them up and said he will take the Angels initial offer, then he would be an Angel now.

    The Red Sox were at $170. Nationals offer was even more than ours. LAA knows Boras doesn’t take discounts. So they felt it was a waste of time to just leave that offer there to drive up the price when they know they won’t be getting him.

    I think it had to do more with economics than it did their impressions of him wanting to go East. The East teams just happened to have the much higher offers.

  188. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    “Heyman on WFAN now

    – Teixeria enjoyed his time in Anahiem and really wanted to go back to the Angels and was upset when they pulled their offer. Boras went back to them after they pulled the offer and offered to go there for 8/$176, but the Angels refused and then he preferred the Yankees among the east coast teams.”

    Uhm, use your “read between the lines” skills. The Angels were very upset about the claims that Tex was never serious about returning there and the Angels were used for leverage..

    It doesn’t hurt to offer up some “good feelings” about a franchise when your Scott Boras or any other player.. you never !@#$$ were you eat.

    If you really believe that Tex’s first choice was the Angels, I am seriously a bit disappointed in your media BS detection filter.

    Come on guys. Please.

  189. Patrick Bateman December 26th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Here’s another sign that its not just Dave Eiland.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy

  190. No Return December 26th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Patrick – Excellent point.

    Nobody mentioned Wang at the press conference for a reason. They mentioned Joba numerous times and not Wang even once.

  191. Cal Bears December 26th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Randy wouldn’t be bad actually.

    He could probably outperform Hughes and Kennedy and give us 200 innings.

  192. Fire Meachum December 26th, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    It was widly reported that Teix initially wanted no part of the WC but then he got traded to Anaheim and loved it out there. So it isin’t surprising that he wanted go to back.

    They have an easier road to the playoffs than any team in baseball. So if he liked the area, it should have been a no-brainer.

  193. PIGBEAR December 26th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Cashman showed “love” to CC and AJ this winter; he will show love to Wang next year if Wang get 20+ wins.

  194. AP December 26th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Betsy – Don’t worry, I believe Burnett wanted to be here badly.

    There were articles all year about it and he had the exact same offer from Atlanta and chose us.

  195. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    “Swisher was obtained for Betemit and Marquez. He is getting paid $5 mil this year, $6.5 in 2010, and $9 mil in 2011.

    He doesn’t have anywhere close to the value of Nady in a trade, who is coming off a .305/25 HR/97 RBI season and is a free agent and is making peanuts.

    We have no outfielders on the team past this year, it would be wise to hang on to Swisher.”

    Good points.

    Some out of he box thinking on my part.
    After next year, Jeter will be one year older and his defense at SS may deteriorate further.
    It is likely Yanks may ask him to move to left field and find a better fielding SS via trade.
    In such a case, they can let both Nady and Damon go after the season.

  196. Sea Net December 26th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    Anahiem had the lowest offer on the table. Even if he wanted to, he couldn’t give up all that money to go there- not with Boras as his agent. If we didn’t enter the mix, he would have probably swallowed hard and gone to Boston.

  197. bru December 26th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    burnett didn’t wan’t the pressure of having to ba an ace in atlanta & i think his wife doesn’t like to fly or doesn’t fly so in ny they are closer to home where she can take the train.

  198. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Make no mistake about it. Tex’s first choice was the Yankees all along. You can bet on that.

  199. Morris December 26th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    If the Yankee offices are closed till the 5th, then it will be a while before the press conference.

  200. CB December 26th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    “As per Heyman! There was a report in the LA Times last week that the Angels only withdrew their offer after they were told they weren’t gonna get him.”

    Arte Moreno pulled the Angels offer because he believed that Teixeira was only using the Angels for leverage and wasn’t serious about signing with them as he was intent on returning to the East Coast.

    It would make both Teixeira and Boras look bad if it was true that they were simply using the Angels. Negotiating in bad faith is never looked upon positively in any way and that’s basically what the Angels were suggesting.

    Heyman’s report sounds like Boras trying to do damage control and placing the responsibility back on the shoulders of the angels rather than on Tex.

    This is simply spin to make sure the charges of negotiating in bad faith don’t stick to Tex or Boras.

  201. sunny615 December 26th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Chris Cocoran has an interesting take on Wang:

    http://www.bronxbanterblog.com.....s-picture/

    Summary:
    Injury History:
    2001, labrum surgery cost Wang all of his second professional season,
    2005, he was shut down in mid-July with another labrum scare
    2007, he started the season on the DL with a hamstring strain suffered in spring training
    2008, he broke his foot running the bases in Houston, ending his season after just 15 starts.

    Wang has avoided the DL in just one of his four major league seasons.

    Wang was 25 as a rookie and will be 29 this season. That’s certainly not old, but he’s several months older than both CC Sabathia and Josh Beckett. Wang’s arbitration years will take him to age 30, where as Cano’s contract is only guaranteed through his age-28 season.

  202. rolex December 26th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Manny wanted to be a Yankee – we should have signed him.

  203. YankeeRay December 26th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Signing Wang after next season makes the most sense since he would entering his walk year.
    If we can lock him up for Beckett type numbers then that would make sense.
    If we wait until his walk year we may be looking at much bigger numbers if he keeps on winning. If that happens then we will be looking at 20 mill and having to make the choice on keeping him or trading him at the deadline if all 4 other starters are jamming and the young guns are ready for prime time.
    Interesting scenario brewing with Wang but now is not the time to pay him big bucks.

  204. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    “Heyman’s report sounds like Boras trying to do damage control and placing the responsibility back on the shoulders of the angels rather than on Tex.

    This is simply spin to make sure the charges of negotiating in bad faith don’t stick to Tex or Boras.”

    I 100% agree.

  205. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    CB

    You can have all the facts, but people still believe almost everything they read.

    Pink Floyd said it best, “Welcome to the machine”.

  206. bru December 26th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    boras also told the yankees that it would take 24 million a year if the yankees do not do a ten year deal and that tex would probably end up in boston & it wasn’t true.

    if the angels wanted tex they wen’t about it the wrong way by being stubborn.

  207. Fortune December 26th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Certainly takes away a lot of the luster from the signing if we were not his clear cut first choice. I guess the fact that he didn’t want to go to BOS should help things, but if we were not his first choice then he certainly takes a hit.

  208. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    “if the angels wanted tex they wen’t about it the wrong way by being stubborn.”

    The Angels figured it out after a while. Make no mistake that if they thought they had a ‘read shot’ @Tex, they would not have pulled their offer.

    People finally woke up and realized that Tex was holding out for a specific team.. It amazes me how the Redsox fell for it. That they didn’t see the Yankees coming. I guess they were blinded by what they were hoping to accomplish, instead of the pawns that they had become.

    But like I said in many of my posts previous to the Yanks deal.. Tex would’ve went to the Redsox if the Yanks didn’t step in, I saw the sox a very near deal done and Boras would’ve taken it.. except for one thing.. he was being told by his client pontificated, “Call the Yankees, call them already”.

    .. and if you don’t believe me, go read the last few hours of my posts before the deal ever happened.

  209. CB December 26th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    “You can have all the facts, but people still believe almost everything they read.”

    Agreed. Most things leaked are leaked for a very specific purpose.

    They are not simply mistakes. There is no reason for these people to be transparent with the public. None.

    Boras wants to make sure his and Tex’s reputation stays intact.

    If Boras himself ever got the reputation for negotiating in bad faith that would be very damaging. It’s acceptable for an agent to be a enormous pain and difficult to deal with – but it’s not acceptable in any way for an agent to get any hint of dealing in bad faith.

    This is basically what’s happened to Paul Kinzer and Tellem after the Furcal debacle.

    Nothing in the tex situation was remotely like Furcal but I’m sure Boras wants to make sure there’s absolutely no chance of any hint of bad faith sticking to himself or Tex.

    On a side note one these leaks. I don’t believe it’s in any way likely that the yankees are really ready to move on from Pettite due to the money they’ve spent.

    These stories that are coming out now are simply intended to create more public pressure on Pettite to accept the offer.

    That’s why all of the stories now end with the idea that there’s still a chance because ownership loves andy and could make an exception on budget just to bring back a loved yankee.

  210. j. damon 06 December 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    I think we’ll all feel better after the press conference.

    We were lukewarm on CC’s mindset leading up to that day too but now we all love him. Same with Tex… we may be confused as to how badly he wanted to come here, but after seeing him on stage and listening to him talk, we will probably forget about where he ranked us on his list of teams.

  211. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    “he (Boras) was being told as his client pontificated, “call the yankees”.

    we need more players to have that passion for pinstripes. I still think it’s an honor for any player to wear them.

  212. Jerry from Queens December 26th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    In terms of stuff, Wang should be a #2 starter. Within this rotation, he is still a #2 starter. His power sinker when right is outstanding. AJ and Wang are both #2 starters. This will make Yankees tough during playoff when all guns are blazing.

  213. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    CB:

    “I don’t believe it’s in any way likely that the yankees are really ready to move on from Pettite due to the money they’ve spent.”

    See Post: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-627348

    Exactly.

    Pet is still loved and welcome, but the trains leaving the station.. decisions need to be made and it’s time for Pet to act.. nothing more.

  214. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    In 3/4ths of the major league teams, Sabathia, Burnett and Wang would be the “#1″ starter in the rotation. That’s good enough for me.

  215. CB December 26th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    Lost,

    I completely agree. This is all intended to send a message to Andy. Look at how much we want you back – Hal and Hanks are willing to make this large exception just for you.

    So this way the spin has less to do with andy’s salary is cut $6M and becomes more about – look as an organization we are willing to go over our intended budget – but only for a great yankee.

    Adding Tex is enormous for the offense. But in no way is this going to be some great 1000 run offense. They won’t be close to that kind of level in all probability.

    There’s still a very good chance that the red sox score more runs than the yankees.

    Even with Tex this is a team designed to be a pitching first team. That’s the model they wanted to move to.

    They are not going to win this division based on their offense.

    It’s going to be pitching and they need Pettite back.

    Management understands this fully.

  216. bru December 26th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    nobody thought the yankees would step in.you,i,the red sox,writers,almost nobody so why on earth would the angels just give up unless they didn’t wan’t him??? of course they were being used,so were the yankees,red sox,nationals.

    it is easy to look back & assume that he favored the yankees because he ended up there & the only team that offered more money i believe was the nationals & tex is a corporate image man so he did not wan’t to go there.

    he might have taken a few pennies lees from the yankees but it was well worth it.

    the angels made up their own minds that they had no shot at him but could not have known for sure because i don’t think you can possibly know unless the agent or player admits it.

    boston did not pull their offer and almost landed him,the yankees didn’t pull their offer and did land him,the angels pulled their offer & rumor has it that it pissed tex off.

    what would happen if the yankees pulled their offer for cc.

    not a smart move if you wan’t a player.

    would he of

  217. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    I am just super excited to see some action on 1B again.. Minky showed some spunk.. but it sure is nice to have a real first-baseman again..

    what’s going to be more exciting all our new players or the fact that we are playing in a new stadium?

    Me well, since I am only up in NY once a month, I will be seeing the same field here in Tampa with the new additions we signed before I get to a game in the bronx — which will no doubt be a very welcome sight — so I may just be mesmerized by the new stadium by the time the season starts.

    No matter what.. this is going to be one fantastic year.

  218. Craig December 26th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    I think this is a severe overreaction. Look at the comment in the context of the article. Eiland was being chatted about about his two new pitchers, who are supposed to be a pair of twin aces. He actually COMPLEMENTED Wang, by inferring that he’s BETTER than a #3 pitcher, but that’s just where he happens to fall on the depth chart. It’s not as though he said, “Well, CC and Burnett are superior to Wang, so we need to push him back to #3.” These are big money contracts, so of course they’re going to be given the purely titular status of #1 and #2. But this doesn’t read as a slight to Wang at all. Give me a break.

  219. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Wang is a number 2 not an ace but a very solid number 2. He is better than AJ not in stuff but in execution. Saying Wang is better than CC is a bit ridiculous however, there is a reason the guy has a Cy Young and 2 consecutive Warren Spahn awards.

  220. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    The addition of Burnett and Sabathia, along with Teixeira and Swisher could and should make the defense exceptionally good. Teixeira will save Jeter and Rodriguez a handful of throwing errors each and will allow Cano to play a couple of steps more towards the middle. Swisher playing a corner will help a lot, also. The big strikeout totals from Sabathia, Burnett and Chamberlain eliminates maybe an additional 150-200 outs that the defense doesn’t have to come up with. Thats a lot of outs.

  221. Peter Abraham December 26th, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    In regards to respect for Wang: Randy Levine actually put out a statement after the arbitration hearing last year boasting about the Yankees winning. The Yankees fought their best pitcher for $600,000, about as much as they threw away on guys like Richie Sexson. It was incredibly short-sighted. If I defend the guy it’s because he needs defending.

    As for Wang’s health, two of his injuries had nothing to do with his arm. He hasn’t had an arm issue of any kind since 2005. He has been dominant at home, very strong in the division and chews up innings. There is a lot of respect for him within the clubhouse.

    I have no idea why some fans don’t support the guy. All he has done has win and represented the team professionally. Would he be more popular if he jumped around the mound and gave colorful interviews? But for guys like Rivera, Posada and Jeter, they know who they want on the mound in a big game.

    Check out this boxscore for a reminder of how good he is:

    http://www.baseball-reference......4270.shtml

    Or remember when he beat Halladay on Opening Day last year?

  222. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    I meant to add that the defense will look much better than it really is for the above stated reasons.

  223. Craig December 26th, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Pete,

    I’m in almost total agreement with you. I’ll concede that the Yankees probably don’t show Wang as much respect as they ought to. Nor do the fans. But, hey, I went out and spent $80 on a Wang jersey, so I guess I’m an exception.

    What I am saying, though, is that it seems like you may be reading a bit too deelpy into what appears to be a throw-away comment about Wang. I don’t see how calling him the #3, when we’ve brought in a bona-fide ace and another guy who will be making a ton of $$$, is really a dig at him. It seems more like Eiland is saying, “well he’s too good to be a #3, but that’s where he slots in now – see how great our pitching will be next year?” I don’t get a hint of disrespect from the comment, though.

  224. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    Much of the comments about where Wang belongs in the rotation is over the “break up the power pitchers” remark.

    For starters, Sabathia is a lefty and Burnett and Wang are righties. All three are different style pitchers, so it really makes no difference. What makes the difference is spreading out the inning eaters more to keep the bullpen fresh. All three are power pitchers, regardless of strikeouts. It doesn’t make a difference after the first turn through the rotation, unless injuries necessitate a change.

  225. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    my favorite Wang photo.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/l.....139889296/

  226. Lost in Tex-is December 26th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    Pete:

    “I have no idea why some fans don’t support the guy.”

    What’s not to respect about Wang? I mean, other than that photo of him in his cheerleader outfit.

    To think both Wang and Cano were once packaged for Randy Johnson..

  227. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Man, these two pitchers going to this team will be a match made in Hell. You can hear the batters scurrying around looking for bats, now. Lots of drooling while finding out when they’ll be sceduled to pitch.

    Compliments of MLB-Rumors-R-Us.

    Rockies Could Pursue Marquis
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 26 at 5:35pm CST]
    Instead of “getting caught up in a bidding war” for Tim Redding with a few other teams, the Rockies could turn their focus to Jason Marquis of the Cubs according to Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News (via Bleed Cubbie Blue).

    Ringolsby points to the durability that Marquis has shown and his ERA of 2.51 in five career Coors Field appearances to explain the Rockies’ interest. It’d also be fun to see Marquis at the plate in Denver, where he’s posted a .704 OPS in 29 PA’s as a hitter.

    Marquis would likely be affordable for Colorado, since the Cubs “seem likely to eat roughly half” of the $9.9MM guaranteed to the righty in 2009.

    The Mets have a similar strategy and would pursue Marquis if they can’t sign Redding.

  228. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    GB- I think you’re right about the defense being better because they have less plays to make. I think the rotation is best as Wang between Sabathia and Burnett it will give the opposing teams different looks. CC-mid-90′s fastball,hard breaking stuff, Wang-hard mid 90′s sinker, slider, and AJ-mid 90′s fastball, sharp curve and change. I like my odds with that much variety :)

  229. Phil December 26th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    CB,

    I’m not sure there won’t be another tweak or two to the offense.

  230. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Correction: they’ll be ***scheduled*** to pitch

  231. CB December 26th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    For what it’s worth I don’t know if after paying a guy 83M on the free agent market – a guy who you are expecting big things from – things he hasn’t accomplished in the past consistently and let him off the hook with the tag of being a “number 3″ starter.

    AJ has a ton of talent and now has to live up to the responsibility of it. He has CC to hide behind – but he needs to step up his game.

    Practically I also don’t know if you’d want AJ and Joba pitching back to back games so I would see the yankees slotting wang in as pitcher 3, especially if Pettite doesn’t return and it’s hughes/ aceves in the rotation.

    All this said – way too much is made about these pitching designations – #1 vs. #2 .vs #3, etc.

    Eiland should have not fell into that habit. Unless of course he was trying to send a message to burnett.

    Again these kinds of controversies are why it’s nearly always in the best interest of yankee players, coaches and officials to speak a lot of words and say nothing in their commentary.

    Jeter and cashman are smart enough to know this.

  232. CB December 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    “I’m not sure there won’t be another tweak or two to the offense.”

    There could be – although I think at this point it’s more likely to come internally in terms of how they chose to align there players.

    To me the biggest decision the organization has left on the offense is their determination on whether or not Damon can play CF and how much he can play there.

    If they think he can it projects to be a much better offense.

    If not then I think despite all of the OF/DHs they have that they may need to upgrade CF.

    The AL East is going to be very, very close. All of these additions to the yankees pulls them up to parity with the Red Sox but doesn’t in anyway move them ahead by any substantial margin.

    I do get the sense that after the addition of Tex people are overrating the offense. All of this talk about trading matsui, nady, etc. seems to me to be based on the notion that the yankees offense is far better than it really looks to be.

    It’s good to very good offensive team. But I don’t expect them to lead the league in runs by any means.

    So additional moves need to be considered, IMO.

  233. Doreen December 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    Wang may end up pitching third in the rotation, but that does not mean he is a “#3 pitcher.” I hate that Wang is so underrated, but maybe it’s just as well. A stealth #1 pitcher disguised as a #3 pitcher in the rotation sounds like a winning strategy to me.

    It’s conceivable that 4 of the 5 pitchers, or at least 3 of the 5, will be capable of being the ace on the day he pitches. The Yankees will have most matchups in their favor this season for the first time in 2 seasons. It won’t be so easy for teams to decide to rest their #1 and/or #2 pitchers for an extra day or pitch them on short rest to fact the Yankees, because most of the time it won’t make a difference. You’ll have Halliday facing either CC, AJ, Wang or Joba. Not Ponson, Rasner, and an assorted cast of arms. Even a matchup against Pettitte will be favorable much of the time.

    I like Wang and his professionalism. He just goes out and does his job. I don’t necessarily find it disrespectful that in this particular rotation he is a #3. It’s all relative.

    And Randy Levine is an idiot 99.9% of the time.

  234. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY!" December 26th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    “Most of the beat writers are on vacation as well. *So don’t expect much for the next week or so.* ”

    And the moon is made of green cheese. This blog is much an opiate for you, Pete, as it is for the multitudes who come here 24-7. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…

    :D

  235. Doreen December 26th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    And I agree that there’s no need to rush into a trade of any of the outfield/DH guys. Right now there is no such thing as “extra.”

  236. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Doreen
    December 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    And Randy Levine is an idiot 99.9% of the time.

    ————————————————————

    Seems to me that you’re overvaluing him.

  237. you gotta have faith (we are called the evil empire for a reason) December 26th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    haha
    i love that picture of wang, hilarious

  238. Doreen December 26th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    GB7 -

    I always like to give the benefit of the doubt. :lol:

  239. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Doreen
    December 26th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
    GB7 –
    I always like to give the benefit of the doubt.

    ————————————————————

    Perhaps you’re correct, and I’ve been too harsh.

  240. Doreen December 26th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    GB7 -

    In all seriousness – I did like his defense of the Yankees moves this off-season. Score one for Mr. Levine. Most of the time, he just looks and sounds pretty much like a fish out of water.

  241. Mike December 26th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    i think we are all looking way to much into this . .

    No need .. Who cares whos 1 2 or 3 . . lets unite and win

  242. j-man December 26th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    CMW doesn’t get enough respect because:
    1. He doesn’t strike out anybody
    2. He was terrible against Cleveland in the LDS
    3. He can be inconsistent
    He is a great pitcher; but does not the respect he deserves.

  243. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

    “1. He doesn’t strike out anybody
    2. He was terrible against Cleveland in the LDS
    3. He can be inconsistent”

    2 words: oh please.

  244. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    “I have no idea why some fans don’t support the guy.”

    Pete,

    Are you reading the same blog I am reading that is by the way your blog.
    I would say 99%+ posts here are supporting Wang.
    As someone said earlier, I wish you show 10% of the respect you show to Wang to A-Rod or stop ridiculing him for no reason.

  245. dave December 26th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Wang’s rep was not hurt by the injury.

    Wang’s rep was hurt by the fact that he does not pitch well in big games against good lineups. Feasting on the bottom half of the league is awesome when you do it as well as he does, it just doesnt make you a number 1.

  246. duh December 26th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    the people on this site have always been completely clueless on the entire arbitration process, and now Pete is fueling the fire with a lot of baseless assumptions.

    taking Wang to arbitration last year wasn’t just about $600K.

    it was also about his salary for the next 3 years. it was also about the rest of their young pitchers they have coming up through the arb process in the near future, and it was about keeping a proper benchmark for other young pitchers throughout baseball.

    if Wang got his $4.6M last year, doesn’t it seem reasonable to assume he would have gotten more than the $5M he settled for this year? so right there, we’re talking about more than $600K.

    what about when Joba is arb-eligible? Hughes?

    saying it was about “an extra $600K” displays a stunning lack of understanding about the process and the salary structure of pre-free agency players.

    so much misinformation and bad logic in this thread.

    Wang will be paid handsomely in 2 years if he keeps it up.

    if the Yankees didn’t appreciate Wang, they’d have traded him for Santana. simple as that.

  247. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    “General managers never put down the BlackBerry for long. But baseball is on a holiday break.

    MLB’s main office in New York is closed and every team (even the Yankees) has closed up shop through Jan. 5. There could be a transaction or two, but it’s unlikely that much action will go down.

    Most of the beat writers are on vacation as well. So don’t expect much for the next week or so.”

    I understand everyone needs a vacation however, when do the Yankees plan to do the press conference? I would assume not before New Years but after Jan 5th is a long time to wait for the introductions and pressers etc.

  248. duh December 26th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    “Again these kinds of controversies are why it’s nearly always in the best interest of yankee players”

    i’d say there was absolutelyh nothing controversial here until Pete declared it as a “lack of respect” and tied it to his arbitration hearing last year, which was a completely defensible action on the organization’s behalf.

  249. Sonnekus December 26th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    Some says that CC and Wang can pitch deeper into the game so Yankees should put them as 1 and 3 to give Bullpen more rest.

  250. j. damon 06 December 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    duh,

    Bravo. Excellent post

  251. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Doreen
    December 26th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
    GB7 –
    In all seriousness – I did like his defense of the Yankees moves this off-season. Score one for Mr. Levine. Most of the time, he just looks and sounds pretty much like a fish out of water.

    ————————————————————

    Well, luckily, along with the “fish out of water”, the Yanks have two great white sharks Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner) to protect him.

  252. No Return December 26th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Maybe they are trying to motivate Wang

  253. Fortune December 26th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    If the Yankees themselves are not showing Wang the respect he deserves, then why does Pete expect the fans to feel differently?

  254. ham fighters December 26th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    idk what other people are saying about who’s the #2 starter, but the majority of your readers have been saying all along that wang is the #2 and burnett the #3. I think thats the best way both because wang deserves it but putting him betwenn cc and aj will be devastating.

    that’s a 3 day slump coming at you, and if you’re fortunate enough to avoid them, then you’re probably gonna get joba!

    good luck with that!

  255. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 26th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Some of you have little respect for the Republic of China. Fine, give your love to Red China. That’s your right.

    My preferred rotation remains:

    CC
    Wang
    AJ
    Pettitte
    Joba

    I’ve run the numbers and I project 137 wins. But that’s based on a good year from Gardner. It might be a few less.

    Hope everyone is having lots of holiday fun.

  256. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    dave
    December 26th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
    Wang’s rep was not hurt by the injury.

    Wang’s rep was hurt by the fact that he does not pitch well in big games against good lineups. Feasting on the bottom half of the league is awesome when you do it as well as he does, it just doesnt make you a number 1.

    ————————————————————

    You’re judging Wang’s value based on two games against Cleveland?

    ***Feasting on the bottom half of the league***

    You mean like the Angels, Tampa, White Sox, Detroit, Twins, Cleveland and Oakland? Even against teams like Baltimore and Boston, he has winning records. Pehaps you should check the facts. Here…I’ll help you.

    http://www.baseball-reference......1=wangch01

  257. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    “that’s a 3 day slump coming at you, and if you’re fortunate enough to avoid them, then you’re probably gonna get joba!

    good luck with that!”

    LOL so true.. =D

  258. duh December 26th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    “If the Yankees themselves are not showing Wang the respect he deserves, then why does Pete expect the fans to feel differently?”

    tempest in a teapot.

    just another day on Pete’s blog.

  259. Scorpio December 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Thanks GB7. Wang? Feasting on the bottom of the league? Unbelievable. 19 wins back to back and on his way to double digit wins in 08 is not a fluke.

  260. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    GB – You’re the man!

  261. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    Scorpio
    December 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
    Thanks GB7. Wang? Feasting on the bottom of the league? Unbelievable. 19 wins back to back and on his way to double digit wins in 08 is not a fluke.

    ————————————————————

    For whatever the reason, it’s been the bottom of the league teams that have caused him the most trouble.

  262. Matthew Cohen December 26th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

    “FIP is a very limited statistic with respect to Pettite and most likely doesn’t give an accurate picture of “how good” pettite was as a pitcher.

    FIP implicitly assumes that any pitcher’s ability to prevent contact from turning into base hits is a random variable.

    Yet during Pettite’s career his BABIP over and over again is hire than the assumed pitcher average of .300. Pettite’s had a long career and the empirically there’s no evidence to expect that Pettite’s BABIP should be .300.

    FIP makes assumptions that make Pettite a better pitcher than he really was last year.

    I think this is well illustrated by the discrepancy between Pettite’s FIP and this tERA. Pettite’s tRA last year was 4.5 making his tERA 4.23 – better than his ERA but not close to as good as his FIP suggests.”

    From 2002 – 2008, Pettite’s BABIP was .311

    Pitches 20,218
    Pithces/PA 3.74
    PA 5,400
    less walks 348
    less HR 114
    less K 1,004
    BIP 3,934
    Hits 1,339
    less HR 114
    HoBIP 1,225
    BABIP 0.311

  263. Scorpio December 26th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    One of my favorite games this past season was Wang’s near no-hitter or perfect game (I forget which) at Fenway. It was an exciting one and I knew that the kid had heart and was willing to do whatever to succeed. That’s the kind of Yankee I want to root for.

    I remember Manny saying in thepost-game that Wang was just UNHITTABLE that night. From Manny-who-can-hit-HRs-outta-the-park-like-golf-balls-Ramirez. It was great!

  264. sweet lou December 26th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Burnett has thrown a no-hitter

    therefore, he is the #2 starter.

  265. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    “One of my favorite games this past season was Wang’s near no-hitter or perfect game (I forget which) at Fenway.”

    I was at Wang’s near perfecto against the Mariners 2 years ago. Stupid Ben Broussard pinch hit a home run in the 8th! :x

  266. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    “Burnett has thrown a no-hitter”

    along with his 9 walks. talk about control. :roll:

  267. Matthew Cohen December 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Pete,

    “The Yankees fought their best pitcher for $600,000, about as much as they threw away on guys like Richie Sexson. It was incredibly short-sighted.”

    Didn’t you say that on some post recently that the Yankees are a business and that it is not just about $600,000 but about all of the future players that will use a player as a benchmark?

    I was not a part of the negotiations nor am I an expert on the value of year 4 arb eligible pitchers.

    BUT

    The Yanks don’t go to arbitration that often. My guess is that Wang’s agent really stretched and was not reasonable. And, guess what, the arbitrator agreed and Wang lost.

    I totally agree that the victory dance was unnecessary and unprofessional. But you can’t fault the Yanks for going to arbitration if they felt that the agent was being unreasonable.

  268. Don December 26th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Truthfully, AJ would probably prefer being the #3 starter.

  269. Drain003 December 26th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    It’s Girardi’s call anyway about what order the rotation will go in, not Eliand’s.

    And Girardi was the only one at the press conference to mention Wang (in his interview with Lorenz/Kay he said don’t forget about Wang, when all the attention was directed towards CC/AJ). So Girardi appreciates him even if the rest of the organization doesn’t.

  270. Scorpio December 26th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Ed – I remember that game too. I think Wang has a bit of Moose luck, so close but not enough. Hopefully, he’ll get more opps.

  271. Garron December 26th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Im not sure that I fully agree with the statement that Wang should be the two and AJ the three but I can absolutely see the mode of thinking behind it. Wang has been a very effective starter since hes put on the pinstripes but when it boils down to it I just think you put your best guns first. Im thinking more in the mode of the playoffs, we all remember Wang’s two terrible perfomances in the ALDS against Cleveland in 07. The way I see it is in a short series I want my two best arms in there to start things off. If the series goes well then you can turn to Wang or Joba, but if things go poorly youll still have the option of bringing either CC or AJ back on short rest.

  272. AK $$ December 26th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Wow, that Heyman/Teixeria/Angels thing is depressing.

    It’s like getting a bucket of hot water thrown on you that we were his 2nd choice

    :::sigh::::

    Atleast we have Joba our beloved homegrown star

  273. Davios December 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Pete,

    You show a boxscore of a game he had against Cleveland in April, yet I could show you a laundrey list of games where Arod tore the cover off the ball in April, May, June, July… That, however, doesn’t stop you from going at the guy whenever you get the opportunity. Its obvious you have a very close working relationship with Wang, however, you also can’t just do things like throw out wins to tell me how great Wang is. Since Wang has come into the league hes played for a team that has been a powerhouse offensively. There are quite a few pitchers that could have won 20 games playing for those Yankee teams, that you wouldn’t give an ounce of the respect your heaping upon Wang.

    And if Arod is a choker in the playoffs as you continually mention, then your Wang would be right behind him.

  274. 34 Score December 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Wang and AJ seem to like blending in and not being the featured guy, so I don’t think either care who is the #2 or #3.

  275. duh December 26th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    why are people so worked up about this?

    the order they start the season doesn’t HAVE to be the same order you line them up in the playoffs, you guys know that, right?

    during the season, it’s almost completely meaningless after the first time through the rotation.

  276. Suave December 26th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    The big Unit has signed with the Giants

  277. Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    What date to pitchers and catchers report?

  278. Garron December 26th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Im really discouraged by the prospect of not resigning Andy Pettite. He tires down the stretch I know, but the guy is a real Yankee and all hes really asking for is a chance to play one year in the new stadium. Im not much for sentimentality but its not like we’d just be throwing this guy a bone either, its not like hes horrible and hes a nice option to have come playoff time (long relief or maybe a start). I dont know why they cant just meet in the middle, say one year for 12 mil or something along those line. Im really hoping they sign him though just because the one year deal would allow us to give Phil Hughes the added time in AAA that he needs while still keeping the door open for future signings or trades come next year.

  279. duh December 26th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    “Wow, that Heyman/Teixeria/Angels thing is depressing.

    It’s like getting a bucket of hot water thrown on you that we were his 2nd choice”

    is this a site for high school students?

    OMG, TEIX LIKES THE ANGELS TOO!!

    who cares? he signed HERE for 8 years.

    he just played with the Angels for half a season and probably grew to like his teammates.

    but if he wanted a new team, the Yankees were his #1 choice.

    who cares if he enjoyed his time in Anaheim?

    it’s almost as if the people here HAVE to have something to whine about.

  280. CB December 26th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    “From 2002 – 2008, Pettite’s BABIP was .311″

    Sure. This is why looking at Pettitte’s FIP out of context is misleading. The difference between an assumption of .300 BABIP vs. an actual .311 is significant. That distance cause FIP to look like a better pitcher than he truly is.

    And it’s somewhat misleading looking at mean statistics on BABIP this way – it’s more informative to look at the range of BABIP and at the median value to get a better sense of how extreme values would impact expectations.

    Pettite’s medican BABIP from 2002 – 2008 was .328 with a range from .273 to .339.

    12 out of the 14 season’s Pettite has pitched he’s given up more base hits on balls in plays than standardized assumptions.

    That’s enormously telling. And what’s even more important than simply summarizing the data as an average is to examine it in a more granular way.

    So if you look at the overall trend in Pettite’s BABIP you’ll see that the only 2 seasons that he’s had a BABIP less than .300 were when he was in the national leauge and one of them was .2004 when he only threw 83 innings.

    And as a whole, there’s also been something of a trend of Pettite’s BABIP getting worse as he’s gotten older.

    These are all reasons why FIP provides a very misleading picture of Pettite as a pitcher.

    FIP gets cited more and more. But it’s a very limited, statistics that only allows for very narrow inferences to be drawn about certain pitchers.

    On the whole, if you’re interested in context independent pitching statistics tRA/ tERA have much better conceptual foundations.

  281. Suave December 26th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Pettite aint worth 10mil and his agents want a second year, the shame he brought on the yankees with his drug use and his pathetic performance last year.i was surprised they offered him 10mil

    see ya Andy

  282. duh December 26th, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    “but the guy is a real Yankee and all hes really asking for is a chance to play one year in the new stadium.”

    i guess you missed the whole thing where the Yankees had a $10M offer on the table for last 2 months?

    so, no, that’s not “all he’s really asking for”. because if it were, the Yankees were willing to give that to him for the fair market price of $10M.

    no, what he is “asking for” is $16M.

    but unfortunately for him, he’s no longer worth $16M. especially in this market.

  283. Doreen December 26th, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    I just read the actual article. Eiland is in no way being disrespectful, in my opinion. He talks about CC and AJ being a great 1-2 punch, and then he goes on to say: “Wang’s as good a No. 3 as you’ll find as well.”

    Depends on your mindset when you read it, I guess. I’m just impressed that the Yankees have 3-4 pitchers who could be an ace on any given day.

  284. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    AP, thanks – I know AJ wanted to be here (it’s ok that $$ was a part of it – it would be, too, for anyone else)….he wants the big stage and he will do well because of that.

    I still think Teix wanted to be a Yankee – this isn’t an all or nothing situation. Wanting to be a Yankee doesn’t mean he didn’t enjoy (or love) playing for the Angels. Maybe I’m naive or just believing what I want to, but this just doesn’t smell right.

  285. ham fighters December 26th, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    if andy wants to come back for one year at the new stadium he can, its just that b/c he waited too long, he’s going to have to settle for alot less money, like his actual value, which is definitly below $10M. the guy has already made over $100M in his career, if he really wants to pitch one more year, he could sign a contract for $6.5M or so. i know its a drop of almost $10M, but he sucked the end of last season and the yankees arent in the market for an 8 figure pitcher for the #4 spot when they can probably sign a benson or someone for $2M and throw him into the mix in case aceves/yews/kennedy/whoever cant grab the spot. if andy wants $10M good luck finding it, he may have to go to japan for that kind of money at this point.

  286. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    CB, I agree with you 100%. When you are about to spend a truckload of $$$$ on a player, with that kind of committment, it behooves you to do as much due diligence as possible. I don’t know much about Moreno, but anyone with that much $$$ must be pretty shrewd and able to size people up. I’m sure he is familiar with Boras’ tactics, so that wouldn’t come as a surprise to him, but he must have felt something wasn’t right when he spoke to Tex. I wouldn’t want someone on the Yankees who was reluctant to be here; I think it took guts for Moreno to pull his offer, knowing how badly the team needed Tex.

  287. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    AJ has said several times since signing that he wants the big stage, that he feels that is when the “real” AJ Burnett will appear (or something to that effect). It’s clear to me that this guy has the right mentality to make it in NY – and he’s got an ace sense of humor, which I always like to see. If he’s healthy, I’m not worried about his ability to pitch in a big spot…….As far as him wanting to blend in, I think any pitcher (no matter how great) doesn’t necessarily want the burden of having to win ALL the time (because the rest of the team is so lousy). CC and AJ looked like old friends at the press conference; I think we can assume that they enjoy the idea of having other guys to shoulder the burden.

  288. Betsy December 26th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    AJ has said several times since signing that he wants the big stage, that he feels that is when the “real” AJ Burnett will appear (or something to that effect). It’s clear to me that this guy has the right mentality to make it in NY – and he’s got an ace sense of humor, which I always like to see. If he’s healthy, I’m not worried about his ability to pitch in a big spot…….As far as him wanting to blend in, I think any pitcher (no matter how great) doesn’t necessarily want the burden of having to win ALL the time (because the rest of the team is so lousy). CC and AJ looked like old friends at the press conference; I think we can assume that they enjoy the idea of having other guys to shoulder the burden.

  289. David December 26th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    Wang has 4 years of major league experience with two 19 win seasons. One 19 win season may be luck or teams not adjusting to a pitcher but two such seasons equals a quality pitcher. The guy simply knows how to pitch and how to win. It’s a shame that in today’s game a winner with a great make up and a 95 mile per hour sinker is seen as a middle or end of rotation type. The obsession with power pitchers and strike outs regardless of performance is a mystery. I predict Wang will go on winning and people will go on missing what is before their very eyes.

  290. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    “CC and AJ looked like old friends at the press conference; I think we can assume that they enjoy the idea of having other guys to shoulder the burden.”

    You’re dead-on. CC and AJ looked happy to have each other at that press conference kind of like “I got your back and we are not alone as the new guy”. They are 2 guys who have dynamite stuff as long as they keep their head on right and stay healthy they should have a lot of success.

  291. Brandon December 26th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    I agree Pete. Wang gets $5 million and he’s happy. Andy wants more than $10 million and he’s not that great anymore. Wang was once regarded as the ace, and since he’s kept quiet and has been relatively out of the media, people think he’s not that good anymore.

    He’ll pick up right where he left off last year.

  292. Shirley December 26th, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    Wang is a nice guy, and he probably won’t mind being labeled as #3 starter. But if I were Wang, I would like to pitch for another team that gives me the respect I deserve as soon as I become a free agent.

  293. Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Yeah, I loved the CC and AJ chemistry… even their wives seemed to hit it off well. I don’t think they knew eachother that well prior to the press conference and then they looked like they knew eachother 20 years.

    I think the fact that we lured CC, AJ, and Tex all in the same off-season will be beneficial to everyone. Not one guy has the pressure on him to carry the franchise, we got 3 marquee players plus we have A-Rod who is under more scrutiny than all of them. Having so many stars will deflect pressure from eachother because they will all have it, not just one guy.

  294. RalphieD (Cant wait for 09) December 26th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    “Wang is a nice guy, and he probably won’t mind being labeled as #3 starter. But if I were Wang, I would like to pitch for another team that gives me the respect I deserve as soon as I become a free agent.”

    geez why do people think wang is being disrespected..this is insanity

  295. NJ 88 December 26th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    The thing about Wang is, when his sinker isin’t sinking, then he is screwed. He has no backup plan. If hes up, he is going to get pounded. Playing behind our defense isin’t helping things either. He seems to have that one inning that he can’t get out of trouble because he can’t strikeout guys. They just take 0-2 pitches to left field. That is why you can never fully trust him in a big spot.

    Atleast Burnett has the ability to make hitters look foolish and can blow guys away when needed.

    When both guys are on their game, I take Wang because his outings are effortless and he is very economical. But in a big game, I’d want AJ because I know without his best stuff he can still dominate and can limit the damage. The ability to get the big K when needed is huge in the playoffs.

  296. Buddy Biancalana December 26th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    If anyone cares, the Big Unit is an SF Giant. Yawn….

  297. David December 26th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    Unless Wang is selfish (which he isin’t) and only cares about personal titles and public perception, then he could care less what number he is slotted into. He wants to win, period.

    Mountain out of a mole. What evidence is there that Wang feels disrespected? You would think people would have more on their minds the day after Christmas than what # Wang is.

  298. Yank1 December 26th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Wang probably enjoys being further down in the rotation, less of the spotlght is on him and he no longer has to adhere to the pressure of being an ‘ace’ and matching other teams top starters. He can just relax and do his thing.

    Either way, Burnett, Joba, or Wang are going to dominate other teams middle of the rotation starters anyway. Let’s just be lucky to have this sick rotation.

  299. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Why is the Yankees signing two big gun pitchers, who might be better than Wang, a sign of disrespect to the Wanger?

    He just got a $5M contract from them. They did not want to go to arbitration, even though he had an injury shortened season.

    How is this not respecting him? I wish I got disrespected like this in my job.

  300. BBFan December 26th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    “So Girardi appreciates him even if the rest of the organization doesn’t.”

    Well, if it is upto Pete, Girardi is not telling the truth :)

  301. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    “He just got a $5M contract from them. They did not want to go to arbitration, even though he had an injury shortened season.

    How is this not respecting him? I wish I got disrespected like this in my job.”

    I agree this whole “Wang is being dissed” idea is completely unfounded. The Yankees know what they have in Wanger however he can’t do it by himself hence why CC and Burnett are here. When the time comes for Wang to be an FA the Yankees will surely put in a competitive bid for the Wanger, he is very important to the team. Also his sponsors in Taiwan want him wearing the interlocking NY not a Nationals jersey, I’m sure he wants to be a Yankee for his career.

  302. Scout #2 December 26th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    If I’m Wang, I would LOVE to be in the #3 spot. Look who he is going to be matched up against:

    Matsuzaka, Garza, Marcum, Bonderman, Saunders, Washburn, Bannister, Floyd, Slowey, Gallagher etc.

    If he’s the #2, he is matched up against:

    Beckett/Lester, Shields, Meche, Eveland, Litsch, Ervin Santana, Garralaga, Carmona, Morrow, Baker, Burhlee, etc.

    Either way, on most night we have the advantage

  303. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Brandon
    December 26th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
    I agree Pete. Wang gets $5 million and he’s happy. Andy wants more than $10 million and he’s not that great anymore. Wang was once regarded as the ace, and since he’s kept quiet and has been relatively out of the media, people think he’s not that good anymore.

    He’ll pick up right where he left off last year.

    ————————————————————

    If San Francisco has determined that the going price for a 45 year old, 11 game winner is 8 mil plus another 5 mil in incentive bonuses, that puts Pettitte at more than 10 mil.

  304. Zach in Port Jeff December 26th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    Gammons at it again…

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....mons_peter

  305. randy l December 26th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    joe from long island-
    i’m not going to say how i know , but i know wang was unhappy with the yankees for not getting a long term contract like cano. he’s not going to say anything in the press because that’s not his style, but i won’t be surprised if the story about wang being unhappy surfaces from time to time over the next few years as he approaches free agency.

    it’s still in his best interest to be as good as he can be whether he stays or leaves.

  306. ttk73 December 26th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Who beat C.C in 4/27 ???
    Who beat Roy hollady in opeoing day ??
    who beat red sucks in fenway and almost outch a perfect game???

    SO just keep watch Wang pitching, even he has been thought as #4, he will still have 20W

  307. pat December 26th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    “Plus it could make a lot more sense to put him between Sabathia and Burnett to give teams a different look rather than using two power pitchers in a row.”

    CC and AJ are different looks with 1 being lefty and one being righty. Putting Wang 3rd between AJ and Joba is where the different look comes in.

    IMO, Wang is more paying his dues than being disrespected. Payoffs come in free agency and he isn’t there yet.

  308. Smarter than you December 26th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Whatever you think of Wang’s ceiling, I agree that Eiland’s comment was stupid. It unnecessarily disses Wang and it diminishes his trade value if they wanted to move him.

  309. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Smarter than you
    December 26th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
    Whatever you think of Wang’s ceiling, I agree that Eiland’s comment was stupid. It unnecessarily disses Wang and it diminishes his trade value if they wanted to move him.

    ————————————————————

    Oh, give it a rest. For somebody that thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, that’s pretty ignorant. The only one that pays attention to #1 thru #5 are fans and the media types.

  310. Tank December 26th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    “the #3 spot. Look who he is going to be matched up against:

    Matsuzaka, Garza, Marcum, Bonderman, Saunders, Washburn, Bannister, Floyd, Slowey, Gallagher etc.

    If he’s the #2, he is matched up against:

    Beckett/Lester, Shields, Meche, Eveland, Litsch, Ervin Santana, Garralaga, Carmona, Morrow, Baker, Burhlee, etc.”
    ————————————————————–

    Wow, the pitching in the AL outside of BOS/TB/LAA sucks.

  311. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    “CC and AJ are different looks with 1 being lefty and one being righty. Putting Wang 3rd between AJ and Joba is where the different look comes in.”

    I agree Pat. AJ-Wang-Joba is a great change of pace.

  312. duh December 26th, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    “It unnecessarily disses Wang and it diminishes his trade value if they wanted to move him.”

    Eiland’s comment diminishes Wang’s trade value?

    are you serious?

  313. jennifer December 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Why must people be so darn sensitive?

    Pete sure knows how to push peoples buttons. I don’t find anything wrong with what he said. People really need to tone down the sensitivity.

  314. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    “Oh, give it a rest. For somebody that thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, that’s pretty ignorant. The only one that pays attention to #1 thru #5 are fans and the media types.”

    He certainly ain’t smarter than you

  315. duh December 26th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    “If San Francisco has determined that the going price for a 45 year old, 11 game winner is 8 mil plus another 5 mil in incentive bonuses, that puts Pettitte at more than 10 mil.”

    how so?

    Unit had a better season than Andy last year and only got $8M in guaranteed money.

    Andy has been offered $10M in guaranteed money.

    if he wants to take $8M plus $5M in incentives, i’m sure the Yankees would be happy to do that.

  316. duh December 26th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    “Who beat Roy hollady in opeoing day ??”

    i guess the Yankees disrespected him enough to make him their opening day starter.

  317. sunny615 December 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    I posted Cocoran’s commentary about Wang not to disparage Wang, but to put out there a logical reason behind the Yankees thought process re: Wang. It does make some sense. I do think tho, that if Wang continues to produce and show he can be successful, he’ll make his payday when he hits FA. And it’ll be the Yankees paying through the nose to keep him.

  318. Tom December 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    This is from last December.

    “The Yankees’ rotation currently consists of Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, and Ian Kennedy. That leaves both Mike Mussina (owed $11MM in ’08, no-trade protection) and Kei Igawa (owed $16MM over 2008-11) without starting jobs.”

    A year ago Moose had to earn his way onto the staff. At the end of the season he was the ACE. It’s stupid to slot pitchers into a rotation 2 months before spring training.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ave-m.html

  319. David December 26th, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Another loss by the Knicks… from competitive to lifeless.

    ST can’t come soon enough.

  320. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 26th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Usually this is the type of game that if they would have won some poster would have came here and marked it as a great achievement. Losing to Kevin McHale’s Minnesota T’Wolves it gets no worse than that.

  321. hobbie December 26th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    I propose that the Yankees by the Times part interest in the Red Sox and install Hank Steinbrener as the GM. Within a few short years he will transform them

  322. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    duh
    December 26th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
    “If San Francisco has determined that the going price for a 45 year old, 11 game winner is 8 mil plus another 5 mil in incentive bonuses, that puts Pettitte at more than 10 mil.”

    how so?

    Unit had a better season than Andy last year and only got $8M in guaranteed money.

    Andy has been offered $10M in guaranteed money.

    if he wants to take $8M plus $5M in incentives, i’m sure the Yankees would be happy to do that.

    ————————————————————

    Let ‘em switch divisions and leagues and tell me, then. Weak league, weaker division and still a nearly 4.00 ERA. Pettitte’s also 9 years younger and more likely to stay healthy for the season. Good left handers are difficult to come by, and there are very few available, unless you’d rather have Kenny Rogers or Mark Mulder. He’s at least worth 13 mil. He averages more than 16 wins a year, 33 starts and 215 innings a year. How much is that worth on the FA market. Certainly more than 10 mil a year.

  323. Thomas December 26th, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    Wang has a career .265 BAA.

    He has given up almost a hit per inning in every season

    He as an abysmal K-BB ratio, much less than 2:1. Compare that to other sinkerballers like Lowe and Webb and its not even close.

    His career ERA is 3.79

    He is an average pitcher, aided by the Yankees prolific offense.

  324. Dr. J December 26th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    What about signing John Smoltz?

  325. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    “Another loss by the Knicks… from competitive to lifeless.

    ST can’t come soon enough.”

    I hear ya man. Oh well now we keep our fingers crossed for the lottery and Blake Griffin/Stephen Curry.

  326. Al from BK December 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    “What about signing John Smoltz?”

    I’ve considered it but do you think he’d ever leave the Braves?

  327. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    “Compare that to other sinkerballers like Lowe and Webb and its not even close.”

    uh, Wang outdueled Webb 2 years ago. :roll:

  328. Buddy Biancalana December 26th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    He is an average pitcher, aided by the Yankees prolific offense.

    ————————————————————-

    Have you looked at his gamelogs & how many runs he has given up in his wins? Obviously not.

  329. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 26th, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    “Another loss by the Knicks… from competitive to lifeless.

    the T-Wolves were on a 13 game losing streak, and the Knicks let them snap it? :x

  330. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2008 at 12:00 am

    Nobody knows when, if, or how well Smoltz will pitch after recovering from arm surgery. What value will that have?

  331. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 27th, 2008 at 12:02 am

    “Nobody knows when, if, or how well Smoltz will pitch after recovering from arm surgery. What value will that have?”

    if Smoltz decided to call it quits, he would be a first ballot HOF without a doubt.

  332. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:06 am

    Ed- The best thing my Knicks can do now is lose every game they are gonna have to work hard to beat the Thunder for worst record. Jets arent doing so hot either this Tex thing really helped me out ;)

  333. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 27th, 2008 at 12:09 am

    Al,

    that’s what the Thunder get for leaving Seattle. a massive losing streak, LOL.

  334. ARK $$ December 27th, 2008 at 12:14 am

    Jets need to sign Matt Castle

  335. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:15 am

    Ed- They did leave Seattle high and dry. I want Stephen Curry on the Knicks even if we have to go 11-61 that kid can shoot the lights out.

  336. Miami Mike December 27th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    Bill Cowher is more important than any free agent signing for the Jets IMO

  337. Zolio December 27th, 2008 at 12:20 am

    Stephen Curry, LeBron, and Chandler

    :)

  338. Zolio December 27th, 2008 at 12:21 am

    *Plus Bosh or Amare

  339. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 27th, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Al,

    the Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton’s legacy will not be forgotten. :D that Curry kid is something..

  340. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:24 am

    “Jets need to sign Matt Castle”

    I been saying this all year, goodbye ol’ man river and we can get a young guy with upside and to steal the pats playbook :)

  341. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:27 am

    “Stephen Curry, LeBron, and Chandler”

    I can see it now :)

    “*Plus Bosh or Amare”

    Its definitely plausible given the money we will have to spend next off-season.

    “Al,

    the Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton’s legacy will not be forgotten. :D that Curry kid is something..”

    Curry in D’antoni’s offense=:)

  342. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Mike- I would love to have Cowher come coach but why would he come out of a cushy retirement as a broadcaster to coach in the NY pressure cooker.

  343. dan 771 December 27th, 2008 at 12:37 am

    promote bob sutton to head coach

  344. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 12:40 am

    I’m really excited about spring training, Al, because all of our new guys will be interacting with each other and their new teammates for the first time – there’s going to be a sense of excitement that I hope will carry over. Last spring training was one of the best ever and yet the season was a nightmare from beginning to end, so I hope this yaer is different. CC appears to be a pretty happy sort and AJ is a free spirit – fans should love them both. Tex adores Donnie – fans that don’t know that story will hear about it a lot soon enough, so that will only endear him to fans.

    I am a little concerned about Girardi. I have absolutely no doubts about how smart he is and I expect him to improve on his strategical decisions. I just hope he can loosen up – Buck Showalter was fired in part because he was way too rigid and uptight (read: control freak). I don’t think Joe is nearly that bad, but then again, he can’t afford to me. It’s going to be very interesting to see if the players can thrive under his stewardship. I hope so, mostly because I love him as an important member of the dynasty years and also because he’s a good person.

  345. Matt December 27th, 2008 at 12:43 am

    I just had to comment on the “pitcher” vs “thrower” argument people are using her to compare Wang and Burnett. Until a stretch last year, Wang was very much a “thrower” and NOT a “pitcher.” All he did was pound 95 mph sinkers into the strike zone. Sure, he threw it inside or outside, but really, did he “pitch?” He was pretty much just a power sinker guy who threw it to parts of the plate.

    Burnett is more a pitcher than Wang at this point. He uses his curveball and changeup along with his fastball to keep hitters off balance. He doesn’t just try to power the fastball/sinker by people, he changes speeds off his breaking ball. Until the use of his slider this year, Wang was more a thrower than Burnett.

  346. 4 x 4 December 27th, 2008 at 12:45 am

    Not even Girardi can screw this team up

    If he does, he’ll be gone. And Teixeria will be managed by his idol in 2010.

  347. Patrick December 27th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    Pete you are being a little too sensitive here. I know you are really close to Wang but you are perceiving disrespect that just isn’t there.

  348. Drain003 December 27th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    Burnett sounds like he really grew up and stopped letting his filthy stuff get the best of him and transformed into a pitcher. Him and CC are going to be great

  349. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 12:48 am

    Betsy- I’m with you 100%. This team is going to be a force to be reckoned with and I can’t wait.

  350. Stew December 27th, 2008 at 12:48 am

    Referring to Wang’s 19 wins as the sole reason for an ace kind of annoys me.

    Who would you rather have?

    Player A: 200 innings, 163 K’s, 4.77 ERA, 1.44 WHIP
    Player B: 217 innings, 186 K’s, 3.76 ERA, 1.36 WHIP

    Hmm well Player A is Bronson Arroyo and he had 15 wins. Player B is Matt Cain and he had 8 wins on a terrible Giants offensive team. Wins is by far the most overrated stat in baseball!!

    I like Wang as a good 2nd starter. He’s not an “ace” though, in my opinion, but he’s a upper echelon #2 in between C.C. and A.J.

    By the way, more K’s means less chance for hitters to put the ball in play, meaning less chance for balls to dink in for hits. That’s pretty basic. Hence why Wang’s ERA will always be around 3.75. Not an ERA I’d consider to be an “ace.”

  351. David December 27th, 2008 at 12:54 am

    I think its the veterans who need to wake up and realize Torre is no longer here and they need to act as such. Not alienate Girardi because the great Torre is gone.

    Both sides screwed up but the players were responsible as well. They got pampered for years and couldn’t handle a little kick in the pants. Though he did give the kicks to the wrong people or in the wrong situations. The candy in the clubhouse rule shows dictatorship and sent a wrong message. Not taking care of Cano was detrimental as well. Damon wasn’t handled properly either but Damon is at fault for letting it affect him that much.

    Girardi needs to undergo a Coughlin-type transformation. He can do it I think, in his interviews ever since the season ended he has looked more comfortable and easy going. Time for everyone involved to fix the relationship right from day 1.

  352. X-Mann December 27th, 2008 at 12:57 am

    A little more than 3 months until Opening Day in Baltimore

    50 or so days until pitchers and catchers.

    Can’t wait… more excited about this team than any others in recent years. We finally have a dominant rotation and bullpen to match the lineup.

  353. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 1:01 am

    “Can’t wait… more excited about this team than any others in recent years. We finally have a dominant rotation and bullpen to match the lineup.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. This team is stacked all they need to do is play up to their abilities and stay healthy.

  354. myrtlebeachfan December 27th, 2008 at 1:22 am

    Nobody in their right mind thinks AJ Burnett is a better pitcher than Chien-Ming Wang. Nobody.

    Wang has proven he can win 19 games a season in the AL East with an excellent ERA and Burnett has shown a lower career ERA and ERA+ from pitching largely in the NL.

    There is no doubt. I would not be surprised if Wang was better than CC this season. Not at all. Burnett just doesn’t have the statistics to prove Eiland’s comments that he’s their #2. Wang does. Wang is an ace, period. The fact that he’s our #2 makes him the best #2 in baseball. Don’t forget, Wang is one of the most winningest pitchers in the last 3 years, after being injured for half of one of those seasons. That’s pretty good.

  355. Bo knows December 27th, 2008 at 1:28 am

    There are lot of questions for next year that will affect the roster. Will Posada be able to throw runners out? Who is the backup infielder? Will Matsui be able to generate any power? Was last year a fluke for Nady? Is Swisher finished as a useful big league hitter? Can Gardner hit major league pitching? What about Cabrera? The signings were necessary but there is a lot of work ahead to replace the creakier parts of the team. It’s a work in progress and getting a good spot for the post World Series parade is premature.

    And by the way Girardi handled Damon so bad that Damon had his best season in years. yeesh!

  356. PIGBEAR December 27th, 2008 at 1:29 am

    dave
    December 26th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
    Wang’s rep was hurt by the fact that he does not pitch well in big games against good lineups.
    Thomas
    December 26th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
    He is an average pitcher, aided by the Yankees prolific offense.

    Every yankee fans in Taiwan saw every game of wang ,he beat red sox many times,….

  357. Bo knows December 27th, 2008 at 1:44 am

    A groundball pitcher like Wang relies on his infield. Think there might be a connection to his ERA with Giambi and Jeter playing the infield?

  358. Kev December 27th, 2008 at 2:12 am

    I guess this kind of “debate” never ends

    who’s no.1? who’s ace? blah blah blah

    now here’s a quote from Damon
    “On Most team, CC, AJ, and Wang would be No.1 Starters,
    and we have THREE no.1″

    end of story, we have the big 3, just cut the crap and enjoy the new season!

  359. Patrick December 27th, 2008 at 2:26 am

    “Think there might be a connection to his ERA with Giambi and Jeter playing the infield?”

    Actually no, according to information that CB has presented on this blog, Wang was helped by fielding more than any other pitcher in the majors last year. Wang’s sinker is so good that hitters can only make weak contact most of the time making it easier for fielders to make a play. I also think the way he pitches helps fielders stay on their toes.

    Also Jeter was a better fielder last year than Cano or A-rod.

  360. EB December 27th, 2008 at 3:56 am

    Pete you really should address the whole tex Yanks thing

  361. bru December 27th, 2008 at 4:27 am

    burnett should be in the 3rd slot.

    less pressure for the amount of money spent,it puts wang inbetween 2 power pitchers,wang slides one spot instead if 2 spots,it might put a chip on burnett’s shoulder to have him in the 3rd spot wich is what you wan’t.

    burnett gives up less hits per innings pitched,strikes out more,identical whip compared to wang & has a better lifetime BAA.

    regardless of wins,era burnett puts up better numbers up to this point in time.

  362. Eric December 27th, 2008 at 6:31 am

    What’s wrong with the Yankees?
    Wang is better than Burnett, OK?

  363. ham fighters December 27th, 2008 at 7:08 am

    “And by the way Girardi handled Damon so bad that Damon had his best season in years. yeesh!”

    this is very true, joe g. did a masterfull job of keeping damon fresh all year (and matsui till his knee gave out) by resting him regularly. then johnny burned him with that ‘why am in not in there’ crap. and the writers, pete included jumped all over joe g, which was ridiculous.

    johnny may be having a little trouble accepting that at this point in his career, he just cant produce everyday, this is understandable so his comments, though regrettable were somewhat understandable, but thats where a fair observer of the team like pete has to step in and point out how much more production joe g’s got out of damon by resting him. (with joe T, this would have been pointed out as the words were pouring from damon’s lips) but when the press has it in for a guy, they neglect to mention such things.

    i love pete and this blog, but the campaigning against joe g. was very heavy-handed last season.

  364. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? December 27th, 2008 at 8:04 am

    wait til you see what the lohud bloggers do to him in 2009 lol

  365. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? December 27th, 2008 at 8:04 am

    wait til you see what the lohud bloggers do to him in 2009 lol

  366. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? December 27th, 2008 at 8:04 am

    wait til you see what the lohud bloggers do to him in 2009 lol

  367. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? December 27th, 2008 at 8:08 am

    ooops! unbelievable!

  368. Josh December 27th, 2008 at 8:15 am

    Say what you want but Wang is an ACE and will be #2 in the rotation.

  369. ham fighters December 27th, 2008 at 8:42 am

    we all need to remember that joe g isnt joe torre and never will be. the demands we place on a yankees manager are increadible. the press needs you, the fans need you, the players (some of whom are prima-donnas, many of whom have huge egos) need to be taken care of and there are other duties with the front office and player development people. and thats just the off-field stuff. to see a guy be able to walk through that craziness with the calmness and aplomb of a joe torre is a once-in-a-lifetime occurance.

    what do we really need from our manager? that he puts the best team out there over the course of the season, that he keeps the team focused on the long term goal of a championship, that he not throw the game away with poor strategy, and that he develop and use his bullpen effecivly. we dont need a joe madden or tony larussa type who will try to win games by outsmarting the other manager (usually to make up for shortcomings on his team). the yankees arent made that way, we pay humongous money for our stars and expect them to win the game, we dont want a manager who’s too smart by a half.

    there was friction with the players and GI joe getting used to each other, but how could there not be given torre’s long tenure and joe’s having to make the switch from teammate to boss. girardi will have to work on that, and the infusion of 4 or 5 new guys, 3 of them being key players, should help here.

    i thought his in-game management was solid, you can pick any loss apart and find fault, but he’s prepared and gave people the opportunity to succeed. i thought his decicion making with the pen was consistent enough to allow confidence to build, but not as slavish to a preconcieved plan as was torre’s. (obviously one of girardi’s strongest areas as opposed to torre’s worst)

    the thing with the press is just something that traditionally has gone on as far back as stengal at least, the yankees manager is always on the hot seat (torre’s start spared him this until the last year) when you’ve got a local press corps who have to sell eyeballs to advertisers, the yankees manager is going to be on the hot seat any season he hasnt won another ring. joe g had a tough year with reporters. he tried to play the injury thing like belechick does, as part of game strategy. deny and decieve if it gives your team an advantage. the press HATES that. this is the crux of his problem with them. although personally i agree 100% with not letting people know anything more than is absolutely necesary regarding injuries, i just dont think it can be done in new york. joe has to rethink it and call torre for a tutorial here (this would be torre’s strongest point vs. girardi’s weakest).

    i think we have the right guy, hes not a finished product yet, but he will be as he grows with this team. and you wont believe how much better a manager joe is going to be by writing cc, aj, and tex into the lineup everyday.

    but everybody has to remember, we dont have joe torre anymore, hes in los angeles and there arent any other joe torre’s out there (the closest thing to him manages the other team in l.a.).

  370. Vincent December 27th, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Rotations change in the playoffs and interleague.
    Rotations change when someone gets hurt.
    Rotations change when there is a 4 game series or double headers.

    It just doesn’t matter. Anyone ever think that they called Wang #3 so he wouldn’t have to have a lot of pressure on himself coming back from injury? Its not like they put Wang in a box by himself in the clubhouse and only take him out when its time to pitch. I’m pretty sure they respect what he has done for them and if he has a big year he will get paid like everyone else. Why pay the man more right now than you have to especially coming off a serious injury?

  371. KenTec December 27th, 2008 at 9:00 am

    Put me on record.

    CMW wins more games than CC & AJ.

  372. Bobby December 27th, 2008 at 9:06 am

    It is one team. Eventually Wang will earn the biggest bucks like Carlton Charles Sabathia….

    The lack of respect might be as a result of his name….

    Wang…

    Peace

    BM

  373. Bronx Jeers December 27th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    If Wang doesn’t get injured last season and ends up winning 17-20 games you know what he would be labeled.

    One of the most consistent pitchers in the game.

  374. Kevin Page December 27th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Total NON STORY.

    Last time I checked Dave Eiland doesn’t speak for the entire Yankee organization.

  375. Glenn December 27th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    As posted before, the ideal situation to have in a 4-game series to keep hitters off balance is to open up with Sabathia (heat $ assortment), Wang (sinker and late breaking heat), Burnett (heat, slider, and changeup) and assuming he comes back, Pettitte (cutters and moving fastball). The 5th starter if it’s Joba, does what he does to open up the next series.
    Girardi will love it but opposing managers don’t like different looks in a pitching staff.
    The Yankee bullpen also provides different looks.

  376. Patch December 27th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    I love that Teixeira notoriously slow start of 0.256 in April is better than Giambi’s BA for 2006 (0.253), 2007 (0.236) and 2008 (0.247).

    Damn that slow starter! HA!

  377. Paul December 27th, 2008 at 10:22 am

    Pete — Happy Holidays & thanks for all of the info you give us. The volume of responses on your message board says it all.

    I don’t understand what Eiland was smoking, unless it was front office political correctness (i.e. we paid Burnett more than Wang so he’s the #2). But if that’s the case, I must with great sadness conclude that the Yanks shouldn’t sign Andy even for $10 million. They have four slots filled and Hughes is at a point where he needs to pitch every 5th day to Major League hitters without having to wonder when or where his next start will take place. Since his stuff is clearly too good for AAA hitters, there’s not much he can learn down there. At #5, with the lineup behind him, he should do fine and we will see over the course of the season if he is a front-line ace, a mid-rotation innings eater, or AAAA trade bait.

    If Pettitte signs, then he has to be the #5 and Hughes is stuck in the limbo of spot starts, AAA starts. I feel bad saying this, and have always been a big Pettitte fan. But we should not give away the upside potential of two strong young arms in Hughes and Chamberlain in the rotation for years to come.

    Happy New Year!

  378. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    trisha – CC and AJ and Sheets – OH MY!”
    December 27th, 2008 at 10:07 am
    “why are people so worked up about this?”

    ——

    Becasue there is nothing else going on right now in Yankeeland.

    Can we now get back to trading Nady and Matsui and signing Manny. Thats a 20mill swap out of payroll unless we pay a part of Matsuis contract.
    Take low level prospects in return and now Hughes can pitch in 5 spot with Aceves and others spelling the injured pitchers.
    We will then score enough runs that even you Trish can make some spot starts and get some W’s.

  379. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    MyrtleBeachFan, I’d be shocked if Wang was better than CC. He is not a better pitcher than CC and there is no debate about that. Maybe CC will get off to a slow start as he sometimes does or maybe he’ll need some time to adjust to NY – therefore, I suppose it’s possible that at some point this year Wang may be pitching better. At the end of the year, though, there is no question that of the two, CC will be much the superior pitcher (regardless of overal numbers).

    This Eiland comment is being ridiculously overblown by people who get overly defensive about Wang because he’s homegrown.

    As to Wang v. AJ, Wang has truly been a very good pitcher, but IMO, he’s limited. AJ has far superior stuff – no doubt that he hasn’t put it all together yet for reasons that have already been discussed. I feel, though, that IF he puts it together, there is no question as to who the better pitcher will be.

  380. Boston Dave December 27th, 2008 at 10:48 am

    what makes everyone think the Pats will let Cassel walk for nothing?

    If they are smart, and they generally are, they will franchise him and either trade him in the offseason or keep him for the beginning of next season until they are sure that Brady is healthy enough… and then trade him (to an NFC team).

  381. pat December 27th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Front offices closed, most writers on vacation and people are parsing Eiland’s words about how pitchers line-up in the rotation. This must be the official cold-stove season.

  382. Boston Dave December 27th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    “Wang is a nice guy, and he probably won’t mind being labeled as #3 starter. But if I were Wang, I would like to pitch for another team that gives me the respect I deserve as soon as I become a free agent.”

    I guess it’s a good thing that you are nothing like Wang. He has never given any indication that he wants to be anywhere other than with the Yanks and any speculation otherwise is unfounded.

  383. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2008 at 11:06 am

    pat
    December 27th, 2008 at 10:49 am
    Front offices closed, most writers on vacation and people are parsing Eiland’s words about how pitchers line-up in the rotation. This must be the official cold-stove season.

    ————————————————————

    There’s always something going on somewhere. “The Sterno Can Season”.

  384. Bronx Jeers December 27th, 2008 at 11:09 am

    “Can we now get back to trading Nady and Matsui and signing Manny.”

    I’m not even sure they can sign 4 type A free agents.

  385. i am the walrus December 27th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Boston Dave, if the Patriots franchise Cassel, they will have to trade Brady then. Signing him as a franchise QB will cost a good deal.

  386. Irabu's Son December 27th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    Bookmark this post:

    Wang will win more games than anyone on the staff this year.

  387. harwood December 27th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Pettitte
    Cone
    Wells <—– YOU ARE HERE
    El Duque
    Irabu

  388. 50 cenral December 27th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Rich Harden is a #3 starter on his team and he is 10x better than Wang

  389. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2008 at 12:04 pm

    randy I – Thanks for your answer last night. I guess that’s the business end of things. I hope they work it out in the future. Wang’s one of my favorite players on the team.

  390. Tom December 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    John Sickels ranks Yankee Prospects:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....-top-20-pr

  391. jared December 27th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    how is this for a trade…

    Hideki Matsui, Kei Igawa, lower end prospect

    for

    Erik Bedard and a prospect

    Seattle loves the players from Japan and I think Kei Igawa would be a good#5 starter with Johjima being his catcher. Seattle does not like Bedard because he does not like the media.Bedard is a great example of a high risk, high reward. If he can get healthy, he is a top 10 pitcher in the AL. When he was on the O’s he killed us and I personally would love to have him as a back of the rotation starter for the Yankees.

  392. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Once again, it shouldn’t matter (in reality it just doesn’t matter) if a pitcher is labeled an ‘ace’, a ’2′, a ’3′, a ’4′ or a ’5′. Doesn’t matter if one pitcher on the same team is better than the other because only one pitcher can pitch at a time.

    Sure, usually you want the best you have to pitch against the best the other team has, but opposing rotations don’t always align that way. Come playoff time, you lead off a series with who’s hottest a that time and the sequence that give you the best situations for the series you’re going into and beyond. But you decide that in late September, not before spring training or in May.

    So big deal if the Wanger may be the 2nd or 3rd best guy we have right now. No really … what’s the big deal if he’s labeled one or the other? He’s as good as the best guy on most staffs and he can shut any team down for 8 innings as often as the next guy, so I really don’t care.

    Well the only exception to the rule about calling someone a number ‘X’ ‘Y’ or ‘Z’ may be if someone’s a ’5′ or sometimes even a ’4′, because his turn would get skipped here & there. People have to understand that because of innings limits, Joba (even though he has top notch ‘stuff’) should fall into the ’4′ or ’5′ spot so his inning are kept within healthy limits. Or, maybe someone gets a sore arm and they need a little break. So you re-align the rotation to get that guy a couple days off w/o having to go on the DL. It’s not a demotion. I guarantee he ain’t going to be told to go out an pitch like a ’5 the day he goes out.

    So, once a gain, Wang shouldn’t be labeled. We just need him to be healthy so he can pitch his best when he goes out there, and that’s all you can ask for. And we need him to do that, not someone else. That should be the end of the discussion.

  393. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    20+ minutes without a new post or a new thread?
    Am I the only one without a life? :D

  394. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    No, ANSKY, but I think people took “That should be the end of the discussion” seriously!

  395. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    Good one Nick!

  396. Buddy Biancalana December 27th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Haha! Was pretty funny, maybe LMAO! but not ROTFLMAO!

  397. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    “how is this for a trade…

    Hideki Matsui, Kei Igawa, lower end prospect

    for

    Erik Bedard and a prospect

    Seattle loves the players from Japan and I think Kei Igawa would be a good#5 starter with Johjima being his catcher. Seattle does not like Bedard because he does not like the media.Bedard is a great example of a high risk, high reward. If he can get healthy, he is a top 10 pitcher in the AL. When he was on the O’s he killed us and I personally would love to have him as a back of the rotation starter for the Yankees.”

    It would be great to get Erik Bedard as a back-end guy because he could easily turn into a top rotation guy if he stayed healthy. However Seattle gave up a huge package to get him and would want more than Igawa and Matsui at 13 mil a year.

  398. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Matsui?
    For Bedard?
    End of discussion. ;)

  399. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I’d be inclined to play Matsui & see how well he’s recovered. If he’s still got it to a reasonable degree, we’ll be glad the Yanks didn’t trade him. Especially for Badard (yes I’m aware of the spelling) who’s been less than he could be. If Matsui doesn’t have it anymore, then I’d think about trading him mid-season and getting something in return.

  400. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    I know I know I know … that actaully wasn’t an end to the discussion.

  401. myrtlebeachfan December 27th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    “As to Wang v. AJ, Wang has truly been a very good pitcher, but IMO, he’s limited. AJ has far superior stuff –”

    Wang arguably has the best sinker in baseball. It is ridiculously good. Just because he doesn’t strike people out doesn’t mean his stuff isn’t amazing. It is. He has a good 4 seam fastball, too, because of how hard he can throw it.

    His slider is nasty and he can and will use it to strike people out on occasion. He also has developed a changeup that he’s used on occasion to strike people out. People can no longer wait on Wang as his sinker falls out of the strike zone or wait on it to hit it just right.

    I truly believe that Wang is a better pitcher than AJ and that AJ’s talent is only marginally better than Wang’s. It is not far superior by any means.

  402. Deal b December 27th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Saying that AJ’s talent is “marginally” better than Wang is just laughable.

  403. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Eric Bedard has a reputation as a bad teammate.

    Seattle gave up quite a bundle for him, and after one year, they are apparently looking to unload him. There is a reason for that.

    He has a reputation of asking out from games. When asked about him, Bavasi, the former GM, was none too complimentary; something along the lines, if I remember correctly, of “You ask him, he doesn’t let us know…”, or something to that effect. Doesn’t seem like a glowing recommendation.

    I think the NY Yankees would do well to look elsewhere for their pitching needs.

  404. Yanks 83 December 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Burnett’s stuff BLOWS AWAY Wang.

    Saying Wang is a better pitcher is one thing, but stuff-wise it’s not particularly close. AJ has one of the elite arms in baseball.

  405. steve December 27th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    myrtle – burnett has better stuff than wang, thats not even debatable

    however i agree that wang is the better ‘pitcher’ and should be the #2

  406. REggie77 December 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    I think Dave Eliand knows a little more about pitching than the arm-chair pitching coaches on this blog, no?

  407. R+ December 27th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    AJ Burnett throws in the high 90s with the best curveball in the league. Wang is a good pitcher but his stuff doesn’t approach that of Burnett’s. But stuff is only one part of the equation.

  408. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing December 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    I’ve been pretty scarce around here since the end of the season, so I’m not sure if this is a question that has already been asked/debated.

    Payroll considerations aside, why does there seem to be a huge pus that the Yankees NEED to trade away the “glut” of OF they have. Isn’t this just considered having prudent depth? Especially given two of the players have spent time on the DL in the last season and one is coming off surgery. Having so many options gives them depth, I don’t get why that is considered unneeded. Especially given the streak of freak injuries last year.

  409. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Someone made a good point about a ground ball pitcher (like Wang) relying on infield defense. With half his infield (Cano & Giambi) being replaced or freshly motivated to hustle (well, hopefully) Wang’s got to be happy about the defensive outlook.

    I’d look for Teixiera to play better D than Giambi by an embarrassing – for Giambi – margin. Sorry Big G, I think we all expect the obvious here.

    I look for Cano to improve (or move) and maybe even feed off of Teixiera’s defensive standard of excellence. Jeez I hope so.

    If I was Girardi (and I realize I’m not) I’d sit him aside and tell him I encourage enthusiasm and high-five slaps after a good play, but I’d warn him he’s going to be benched for choreographed high fives during games, especially when the team is behind or just gave up a run.

  410. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing December 27th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

    pus = push

  411. gdamac December 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Wang is the man Pete, great piece. You don’t win that many games in the AL east unless you got something. I say, if Bernie produces in the WBC, sign his a**! I would take Bernie in center of all the other options!

  412. joeman December 27th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    don’t play games now…meet Andy in the middle for one year and sign him,he’s good for 12+ W’S and from a #5 SP thats as good as it gets

  413. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    I don’t want to say nothing too ridiculous right now but the Rangers ….

    “Durrett expects the Rangers to offer the righty a contract, but writes that “it’s still a long shot to expect Sheets to pitch” for Texas.”

    Umm… if he cost say 7 – 10 million …Why couldn’t Cashman just swoop him up, I doubt Daniels goes over 9 million just my opinion.

  414. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    -I say, if Bernie produces in the WBC, sign his- -a**! I would take Bernie in center of all the other options!-

    LOL No you wouldn’t. :lol:

  415. Upstate December 27th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

    Matsui to Seattle ?

    Not going to happen regardless of the deal.

    Matsui TOO IMPORTANT to Yankees in Japaneese market.

    End of story.

  416. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Matsui will be traded but it won’t be for Bedard, as important as the Japanese market is he’s not a hold up.

  417. R+ December 27th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    I’d have no problem signing Sheets if he came cheap

    The medicals must be real bad if NO team has even offered him a contract or showed interest (other than passing interest from TEX).

    Either way, its worth a gamble.

  418. TL1125 December 27th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Has A-Rod committed to play for the Dominican team yet?…..Or is it a rumor?….Brandon?

  419. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    As soon as that price tag hits 8 or possibly 7 million Cash should use the speed dial option.

  420. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Wouldn’t just be easier for the Yankees to pay for Sheets’ TJ surjery and sign someone else who can pitch in 2009?

  421. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    If they sign Sheets they can package Wang w/ someone and land a young athletic ML ready prospect :D

  422. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Very funny. I’m not taking the bait!

  423. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Who said it was bait. :D

  424. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Grrrr ;(

  425. yankee lover December 27th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Any chance Yankees can package Hughes and Kennedy to San Diego for Peavy?

  426. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    http://static.flickr.com/52/12.....eaebcf.jpg

  427. yankee lover December 27th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Any possiblities of Yanks packaging both Hughes and Kennedy to San Diego for Peavy?

  428. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    None especially when his contract would have to be restructured and he doesn’t want to be in NY. File it under uh…NO.

  429. Patrick December 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    “John Sickels ranks Yankee Prospects:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....-top-20-pr

    Thanks for the link. Sickels has a pretty good take on the Yankees system I think. I don’t like ranking low ceiling guys like Aceves, Albaladejo, Robertson, Kontos, etc. I also don’t like that he Brandon Laird didn’t even get a mention. Overall though, its a pretty good summary of the Yankee farm system.

  430. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    http://i180.photobucket.com/al.....LLcopy.jpg

  431. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Brandon, was this picture taken yesterday when he was asked what spot in the rotation wil he be pitching in?

    Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees)
    December 27th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
    http://static.flickr.com/52/12.....eaebcf.jpg

  432. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 27th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    LOL YR…BTW Patrick I’m sorry but Sickels is not good anymore, I’ve read the overhyping of F-Mart for the Mets from him and how he put WDR to 11 on that list put Sosa over DeLeon or Urena or even Abraham Almonte. Sickels must be off his game.

  433. AROD fan December 27th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Anyone think Boston should take an interest in Giambi?

  434. Drain003 December 27th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Boston needs to trade for someone like JJ Hardy, Tejada, Yunel Escobar, Troy Tulowitzki, etc.

  435. Buddy Biancalana December 27th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Boston needs to trade for someone like JJ Hardy, Tejada, Yunel Escobar, Troy Tulowitzki, etc.

    ———————————————————-

    Yeah, who cares?

  436. Jay Waldman December 27th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Whomever said that Burnett is a better pitcher than Wang is a total moron. Wang’s only injury was last year, other than that there is no injury history for him. He’s been a #1 and his record proves that.

  437. george December 27th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    They will not

  438. dan 771 December 27th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    wang is a nice pitcher but he is very overrated

  439. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Only way I could imagine Matsui ending up in Seattle is if he’s packaged with at least 1 other player in a trade and Ichiro comes to NY with others too. I’m not thinking it’s something that should or will happen, but with Japanese markets in mind that would be the only way.

    I also don’t think they’d go 1-for-1 or 1-for-2 or even 1-for-3. By moving more than one player in each direction, it’s harder to equate their value against each other. I don’t think either side would want a fight over who’s being valued higher than the other in the Japanese media. I think they’d want it to appear as a deal where both sides win. Then again, maybe they wouldn’t care.

    Just got a feeling that’s how it’d pan out if it ever did happen. But I don’t think it will.

  440. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Boston? Giambi? Nah. Not unless Ortiz pulls a Manny, pulls up lame or pulls up dead.

  441. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    I would love to give Hughes another shot at the rotation, however we all know that would be irresponsible. This team needs a number 4 maybe we could get Brad Penny or take a health flier on Sheets.

  442. ANSKY December 27th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    OK … I’m outta here.

  443. Stanny46 (Phanatic in Training) December 27th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    I would take Wang over AJ, but what the flock do I know?

    As much as I love Andy, he has received some pretty crappy advice from his agents. I hope they can work something out, but I am doubtful. As a teacher who makes less than 50 grand a year working my behind off, I find it laughable that $10 million is considered chump change.

  444. A-List December 27th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Burnett can miss bats. Therefore he is more reliable in a big game over Wang who is toast if his sinker isin’t sinking.

  445. Tseng December 27th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    RE: Pressure

    I seriously doubt Wang cares if he’s 1, 2, or 3, but the Taiwanese media and populace will. As for the pressure of being the “ace” of the staff or being the number 2 starter versus 3 or even 1 versus three, I think Wang has enough pressure as the most famous sports celebrity in Taiwan and having each of his games televised in his nation.

    When Wang wins, the Taiwan stock market goes up. When he loses, it goes down. How’s that for pressure? 1, 2, or 3 won’t matter to him at all.

  446. Tseng December 27th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    RE: Pressure

    I seriously doubt Wang cares if he’s 1, 2, or 3, but the Taiwanese media and populace will. As for the pressure of being the “ace” of the staff or being the number 2 starter versus 3 or even 1 versus three, I think Wang has enough pressure as the most famous sports celebrity in Taiwan and having each of his games televised in his nation.

    When Wang wins, the Taiwan stock market goes up. When he loses, it goes down. How’s that for pressure? 1, 2, or 3 won’t matter to him at all.

  447. Vrsce December 27th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    What’s in a name?

    The imposters are easily recognized and ignored.

  448. Tseng December 27th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    RE: PAT M.

    The fact that you would wish that on someone is pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  449. Tseng December 27th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    RE: VRSCE

    Clearly they are not being ignored if you are responding to them. I think you are defeating the whole purpose of “ignore the trolls, don’t feed into it.”

  450. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Tseng: it’s highly unlikely that the second message was actually from PAT M.

  451. vince December 27th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    any chance of prying away Matt Cain for Nady or Swisher and Kennedy?

  452. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    vince
    December 27th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
    any chance of prying away Matt Cain for Nady or Swisher and Kennedy?

    ————————————————————

    great idea

  453. vince December 27th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    but is it viable? The Giants seem to have a need for an OF, and Nady and Swisher are relatively cheap.

  454. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    nady & kennedy for cain would be perfect & cain can slide right in the 5th spot & he is better & cheaper than pettitte.

  455. Cor Shep December 27th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Matsui for Jarrod Washburn anyone???

    1) Solves the crowded outfield
    2) Swap of bad contracts
    3) Mariners are looking for a bat
    4) Get innings eater
    5) Bye bye Pettitte

    This would be cool

  456. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    SF would not give up Cain we might have a shot at Sanchez if they really need a bat we do have Nady and Swisher to offer.

  457. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    cash should get on the phone & keep trying to set us up going forward instead of getting who we wan’t & sitting still.

    i don’t like the 4th spot.

    joba if he is the # 4 pitcher we have hughes/acevez/kennedy behind him & the bullpen will be taxed 2 days in a row.

    same is true if joba in the # 5 with kennedy/hughes/acevez in front of him.

  458. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    it would be nice if we can get a younger less expensive pitcher.

  459. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    we can only hope that one of the kids or all of them have a good year.

    joba should be on a very very strict pitch count.no point in risking an injury to him.he is a potential ace.

    i would not go over 130 innings with him.his shoulder scare worries me.

  460. Cor Shep December 27th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    bru – of course. It would also be nice if we could trade Melky for Beltran.

    Matsui gets paid $13, is coming off 2 surgeries, and can’t play the field. He has negative trade value – aka the only thing he’d bring back is another bad contract. Washburn kills 2 birds with 1 cashman

  461. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Pettitte > Wasburn

  462. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    sanchez would not be that bad if he walked less batters.

    he is about right where wang is as far as hits per innings pitched.

    walks kill him making his whip & era higher.158 innings-154 hits-157 strikeouts.

    he also strikeouts about a batter per inning.

  463. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    You`re not getting Cain without giving up Cano. Why would they want Nady and Kennedy for one of the best young pitchers in baseball?

    Sanchez might make more sense. He`s got the potential for a big breakout year in 2009 if they`re willing to take the risk. They then have enough money for Baldelli to strengthen the bench.

  464. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Cor Shep

    i never said anything about matsui.i said nady/kennedy.

  465. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Sanchez got really unlucky the past two years with BABIP. Selling high on Nady to buy low on Sanchez could be a brilliant move.

    If Nady reverts back to pre-2008 levels, which is likely, then is he really that much better than Gardner/Melky? Especially when you consider the effect it has on defense (Gardner in center+Damon in left is a lot better then Damon in center+Nady in left).

  466. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Cain is younger than Lincecum. They won’t let him go cheaply.

  467. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    matsui is going no where you idiots

    he will bounce back next year and is a lock for .300 avg 25 hrs and 100 rbi.you dont subtract that kind of bat out of your lineup

    matsui is more valuable to the yanks,because he brings in mega $$$ via the japanesse market,and he is much loved in the clubhouse and has been class on and off the field

    show some respect you muppets

  468. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Whats the facination with Washburn? Last year he was attractive when he was replacing Ponson but now he`d be replacing Pettitte or Hughes. Makes no sense. Dumping Matsui’s contract makes little sense unless you get something back, which won’t happen.

  469. riyankee42 December 27th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    “Burnett can miss bats. Therefore he is more reliable in a big game over Wang who is toast if his sinker isin’t sinking.”

    dont get me wrong, i like that we got burnett! but lets not jump on that bandwagon and annoint him our #2 over wang! the bottom line is stats! wins, and era! wang has him beat lifetime and deserves to be taken care of like a #1a starter, which is what he is in my book. our other #1… he should be sandwhiched between cc and burnett to mix it up a little too

  470. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    nady hit 20 hr’s & 72 rbi’s in 07 in 431 ab,in 09 he hit 25 hr’s & 97 rbi’s in 555 ab.why would he regress at 30 yrs old????

  471. riyankee42 December 27th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    “Matsui to Seattle ?

    Not going to happen regardless of the deal.

    Matsui TOO IMPORTANT to Yankees in Japaneese market.

    End of story”

    well maybe if we took a page from bostons book and signed at least one japanese player a year this wouldnt be holding us up lol

  472. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Cash would be silly to not shop Nady for a young pitcher maybe Matsui and a few pieces IPK perhaps can get us Sanchez whose upside is a young Andy Pettitte. The line-up would also get less congested as Swisher could go to RF and we could leave the DH spot open for another hitter or just to keep guys fresh.

  473. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    hit a nerve did it Cor Sheep.cause you been posting alot of rubbish on here

    example Washburn – LOL

  474. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    nady hit 20 hr’s & 72 rbi’s in 07 in 431 ab,in 09 he hit 25 hr’s & 97 rbi’s in 555 ab.why would he regress at 30 yrs old????

    Come on, look at all the stats. Its clear that 2008 was an outlier. It hasn’t been anywhere close to a steady increase.

  475. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    can’t be that important if they wan’t to move him/nady/swisher.

    what are they going to do after 09 sign him for 10 years because he is too important to their japanese market????

    nonsense.they would trade him in a second if the return was right.

  476. Cor Shep December 27th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Okay I get it.. Washburn sucks!! haha

    I digress and say keep them all. Someone had a great post showing rotations of the three outfield positions, DH, and 1B backup – which turned out playing Damon 90%, Nady 80%, Matsui 80%, Swisher 80%, Brett/Melky 40%. I think thats a pretty awesome scenario.

    But the main reason they should keep everyone is INJURIES. Someone is boooound to go down. And when that person does, the starting positions will be obvious

  477. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    *i meant nady

  478. riyankee42 December 27th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

    “i think washburn is a joke. id rather see him dead than on the yankees.”

    thats a little harsh dont you think???? i mean i dont want him in pinstripes either but thats going a little far imho

  479. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    i think you need to shut up Bru….running your mouth up in here.you sound like richard simmons

    example – Nady and Kennedy for Matt Cain…..LOL

  480. A-List December 27th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Nady’s 1st half in Pittsburgh was a complete fluke. He hit .268 for us after getting off to a red hot start.

    Sell high. He is a Boras client and a FA after this season and is coming off a career year. If anyone goes, it should be him.

  481. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    But the main reason they should keep everyone is INJURIES. Someone is boooound to go down. And when that person does, the starting positions will be obvious

    In a way though, that’s the very argument for moving one. If they move one they could afford Pettitte. Therefore adding pitching depth. What’s dangerous. Losing a pitcher or a hitter? I`d rather take the pitcher.

    A Sanchez trade and Baldelli signing could plug both holes though.

  482. bru December 27th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    Mike NYY

    nady hit 25 hr & 97 rbi’s & half of it was in the pirates lineup.with 600 ab,28 hr & 105 rbi & is making 3-8 million a year.

    what more do you wan’t from an outfielder???even if he maxed out at that it is not too badf.

  483. Forntoso December 27th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Can’t we just enjoy having Wang and Burnett in our rotation? Why make it a competition between the two, especially when both guys seem to like blending in rather than being the ‘man’? Rotation order is only important in the playoffs anyway.

    Clearly, a mountain was made out of a mole.

  484. sweet lou December 27th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Nady for Jonathan Sanchez, do it.

  485. BBFan December 27th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Cashman is upto something than no one is currently speculating.

    I still beleive that Cash and Pettitte have an inderstanidng that Peettitte will return in the middle of the year.

    In the menatime, if a trade is made, Nady or Swishser may be traded along with some relief guys like Veras to upgrade the CF.

  486. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

    nady hit 25 hr & 97 rbi’s & half of it was in the pirates lineup.with 600 ab,28 hr & 105 rbi & is making 3-8 million a year.

    what more do you wan’t from an outfielder???even if he maxed out at that it is not too badf.

    If I can get a repeat of 2008 I`d take it any time. He has never played up to that level before then though. before 2008 he was a solid role player at the bottom of the lineup. I`m betting on him returning to a slightly better version of that in 2009. I`d be shocked if he hit .300 again in 2009. He`s relatively cheap but that gives him value and could help them net a potential star like Jonathan Sanchez.

  487. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    Hey Nick – just what are you doing in Charlotte? Seeing family for the holidays?

    Hope you have safe travels.

  488. Gary December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    December 27th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
    Anyone think Boston should take an interest in Giambi?

    …………………………..

    He’s headed for Oakland.

  489. bru December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    if we have an opportunity to get a good pitcher or cf using,nady,matsui,kennedy,prospects i do it.

  490. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    Can’t we just enjoy having Wang and Burnett in our rotation? Why make it a competition between the two, especially when both guys seem to like blending in rather than being the ‘man’? Rotation order is only important in the playoffs anyway.

    Clearly, a mountain was made out of a mole.

    And what else are we supposed to argue about? ;)

  491. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    or what bru…you keep posting your pathetic trade ideas and ill keep laughing.sounds like i deal

  492. E-Rod December 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    There is no way that Boras will be ok with Nady being a bench player, going into his contract year and coming off a career year. The guy almost drove in 100 runs and hit .300 last year and is headed for a big payday with some team, you can’t deprive the guy of starting.

    Boras will demand a trade for him if he isin’t a starter. So you are only delaying the inevitable and will cause a distraction in ST if this isin’t resolved by then.

  493. AJ YANKS December 27th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Just play Damon in Center, Nady in left, Swisher in right.

  494. PAT M December 27th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    I’m reluctant to even post as there’s a smuck running loose here today…Nick in SF, I see your still in the Queen City ( not Cinn. )…Try to get to Ruttans for Sushi, and thank’s for the backup earlier…..I’m locked on Cal tonight…..Matsui stays in the Bronx, he’s the # 5 hitter …..Why all the changes when the team looks real good for 09 ????

  495. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    E-Rod, barring any trades I think either Swisher rides the bench or Damon plays center.

  496. Tank December 27th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    The question we have to ask ourselves is:

    Is the upgrade from Damon to Gardner/Melky defensively significant enough to withstand the downgrade offensively from Nady (.300/25/97, even if it was a fluke) to Gardner?

  497. bru December 27th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Mike NYY
    December 27th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
    nady hit 25 hr & 97 rbi’s & half of it was in the pirates lineup.with 600 ab,28 hr & 105 rbi & is making 3-8 million a year.

    what more do you wan’t from an outfielder???even if he maxed out at that it is not too badf.

    If I can get a repeat of 2008 I`d take it any time. He has never played up to that level before then though. before 2008 he was a solid role player at the bottom of the lineup. I`m betting on him returning to a slightly better version of that in 2009. I`d be shocked if he hit .300 again in 2009. He`s relatively cheap but that gives him value and could help them net a potential star like Jonathan Sanchez.

    ———————————————————–

    not true.2007 was in line with 2008.

    20 hr,72 rbi in 431 ab.

    most players that play fulltime & stay off the dl get about 600 ab.

    169 more at bats is a lot.i am sure he would of hit about the same as he did in 08.

    he also is in a much better lineup now.does abraeu put up numbers like he did in ny on most teams????

  498. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:08 pm

    Just play Damon in Center, Nady in left, Swisher in right.

    And how much better is that than Gardner/Melky in center, Damon in left, and Swisher in right?

    Theirs a huge swing in defense there. Is Nady good enough with the bat to make up that differnce if he reverts to pre-2008 levels? Enough to be worth that 6 million dollar difference? Why not trade him, clear away some money for Pettitte/Baldelli and get a prospect or two for him?

  499. Joseph December 27th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Nady is a guy who will hit HRs and not much else.

    Outside of two half-seasons (the 06 after he was traded to PIT and the 08 before he was traded to NYY), he has not hit .300 in any season.

    He is average at best defensively and can sometimes be an adventure out there.

    Has a low OBP and isin’t very patient or selective at the plate. Doesn’t take walks.

    High strikeout totals. No speed at all.

    He is an average player who is coming off a career year. He hit .268 as a Yankee. If you can get a good return, you trade him.

  500. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Suave
    December 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    matsui is going no where you idiots

    he will bounce back next year and is a lock for .300 avg 25 hrs and 100 rbi.you dont subtract that kind of bat out of your lineup

    matsui is more valuable to the yanks,because he brings in mega $$$ via the japanesse market,and he is much loved in the clubhouse and has been class on and off the field

    show some respect you muppets

    Mike NYY
    December 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    Whats the facination with Washburn? Last year he was attractive when he was replacing Ponson but now he`d be replacing Pettitte or Hughes. Makes no sense. Dumping Matsui’s contract makes little sense unless you get something back, which won’t happen
    In a way though, that’s the very argument for moving one. If they move one they could afford Pettitte. Therefore adding pitching depth. What’s dangerous. Losing a pitcher or a hitter? I`d rather take the pitcher.

    ——

    Suave, Matsui is gone in a year anyway and unless he is going in a salary dump with Nady to bring back Manny then I wouldn’t trade him. As far as the clubhouse thing, how much would the guys miss communicationg through a translator? I liked Matsui but believe that he is on the downside and could end up being a liability if not 100% healthy. If he isn’t then he will be harder to move during the year. I wouyld move him for nothing if it was to clear salary form Manny.
    I would move Nady but Mike makes a good point on the injury front.
    If we would just sign Pettite then we could keep all of them assuming that the odd man out can live with coming off the bench.
    I am 100% behind getting Manny but would have to move Matsuis and Nadys salary to do so. I would still sign Pettite or Penny and move IPK to find another OF for depth.

  501. bru December 27th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    i think the yankees make a move for a cf and or pitcher or see how gardner/melky do in st first.

    melky’s production in the fall league or winter ball wherever he is playing now has people taking notice.

    he put up some nice numbers & knows the time is now.

  502. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    Joe: yes, visiting family here. I’m on the way to get take-out Indian food to be back in time to watch Cal romp all over Miami in the Emerald Bowl. Thanks, safe travels to you too.

    PAT M: I don’t think Cal will let you down. And of course I knew that clown before wasn’t you. You’ve got class.

  503. A-List December 27th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    Mike, I agree 100% trading Nady is the smart move.

  504. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    not true.2007 was in line with 2008.

    20 hr,72 rbi in 431 ab.

    most players that play fulltime & stay off the dl get about 600 ab.

    169 more at bats is a lot.i am sure he would of hit about the same as he did in 08.

    he also is in a much better lineup now.does abraeu put up numbers like he did in ny on most teams????
    ___________________________
    Dude, his triple slash numbers in 2008 were .305/.357/.510. Compared to his career numbers (which include 2008) of .280/.335/.458. That’s so far out of the norm its ridiculous. Theirs other, more important stats out there than home runs and RBI’s. You can’t just cherrypick two random stats.

    After moving to New York Nady went back to his usual levels and had a BA of .268. SO their goes the lineup protection theory.

  505. Matsui San December 27th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Matsui is the best player of the lot (of the OF/DHs), why would you trade him? When healthy, he can still give you .290-25-100 with a high OBP and clutch hitting.

    Considering him and Nady are both free agents after the season, why would you keep Nady who is inferior to Matsui? Leave contracts out of the equation and it’s not really debatable.

  506. Sea Net December 27th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Nady’s 2008 was an outlier. Just like Swisher’s 2008 was an outlier.

    Take advantage of that and sell Nady high.

  507. MO 42 December 27th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Damon is no longer a CF. Teams will run at will on his arm.

    No point in upgrading the pitching staff if we’re going to have awful OF defense.

  508. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    The question we have to ask ourselves is:

    Is the upgrade from Damon to Gardner/Melky defensively significant enough to withstand the downgrade offensively from Nady (.300/25/97, even if it was a fluke) to Gardner?

    ————————————————————

    Really depends on the pitcher. With, say Wang and Pettitte in the rotation, I’d want the speed in the outfield that day. The others are power strikeout pitchers.

  509. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Nady’s 2008 was an outlier. Just like Swisher’s 2008 was an outlier.

    Take advantage of that and sell Nady high.

    Exactly, that’s the best way to build a team. Buy low on guys like Swisher/Cano who are likely to have bounceback years and sell high on guys like Nady while you can get something for them. Again, Jonathan Sanchez for Nady would be the perfect way to accomplish both. They lose an average player for one year with below average value to them for a young pitcher with a ton of potential. It also gives them enough money to sign one more small free agent. Either Pettitte (send Sanchez to AAA) or Baldelli as a gamble.

  510. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    I dunno if everyone here is familiar with Sanchez but he has great stuff. He has a mid 90′s fastball, great developing breaking stuff and he has a fiery attitude. He has the makings of a young Pettitte.

  511. Mike December 27th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    I really think Hughes needs one more season in AAA he was rushed into the majors. If we could trade for Cain sweet otherwise put Aceves in the open spot

  512. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    YankeeRay you just cant move Matsui’s salary. all teams would demand us paying his full salary.its a non subject anyway. matsui has a full*No Trade Clause*

    Matsui will be batting in the 5th spot as DH.Im sure he will have a great season in 09 then go back to japan to finish his career

  513. Ken December 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Melky is 10x better than Gardner. Better offensive player and defensive player – much stronger arm. Only thing Gardner does better than him is run, but if he can’t hit .270, then it doesn’t really matter. Teams will just overpower him with fastballs and will challenge him because it looks like he is swinging a wet newspaper.

  514. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    The question we have to ask ourselves is:

    Is the upgrade from Damon to Gardner/Melky defensively significant enough to withstand the downgrade offensively from Nady (.300/25/97, even if it was a fluke) to Gardner?
    ______________________

    If its even in question you HAVE to make that move. You`re getting something back for Nady and have the ability to sign another free agent with Nady’s money.

  515. O*Line December 27th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Al,

    I’ve wanted Sanchez for the last 2 years. He seems like a classic low risk, high reward pickup. A lefty with an electric arm.

  516. vtred December 27th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Even Damon admitted he isin’t a CF anymore.

    He can fill in for a little while if there is an injury or something, but you cannot go into the year with him as your full-time CF.

  517. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    Sanchez had ERA’s over 5.00 in the NL West the past 2 years which might make the Giants willing to deal him. Especially with their pitching surplus and hitting deficiency.

    However, both of those years Sanchez had very high BABIP’s. He`s a good bet to break out one of these days and emerge as an ace. Or at least a solid starter. The only problem with him is his control but he strikes out enough to compensate.

  518. riyankee42 December 27th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    “Just play Damon in Center, Nady in left, Swisher in right”

    damon doesnt have the arm for center, thats no secret! say what you want about his bat, but w the current lineup we need melk in cf

  519. Al from BK December 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    O*Line- Yeah I god turned on to Sanchez by some other posters and I caught on with him his last few starts before he got injured he was great. High K’s and overpowering delivery, also 25 year old lefties dont grow on trees.

  520. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Mike….i wouldnt expect you to say that. although it’s true, there’s no need for that…were all having a good conversation here and now you have to bring up that loser gammons?

  521. Mike NYY December 27th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    I think the Yankees should just see if Pedro Gammons would be willing to cover the Yankees. If he does, we can have him praise the losers in our farm system, while browning his tongue, and we can pawn them off for good proven players, like the Red Sox do. I mean, if he’d come around and do for the Yankees what he does for the Sox, Cervelli would be the best player in all of the minors, and we’d be able to trade him for Cain AND Lincecum.
    ________________________
    This wasn’t me guys, some prick decided to post this under my name. Pete’s really let this blog go downhill. I`m heading over to RAB for now.

  522. PAT M December 27th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    So much for peace and goodwill towards others….Hey guys whats with all the friction and negative vibes ??? Bring it down a couple of leverls and enjoy each other….All this does is chase people away…..

  523. YankeeJosh December 27th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    “Bernie Williams is making a comeback in the Puerto Rican winter league and is 1 for 6 with two strikeouts in two games. He hopes to play in the WBC. … ‘

    how about the Yankees sign Bernie to a one day contract and let him call it a career in one of the exhibition games against the Cubs in the new Yankee Stadium. Seems fitting for him to end his career in pinstripes at the new Stadium.

  524. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    YankeeJosh: “how about the Yankees sign Bernie to a one day contract and let him call it a career in one of the exhibition games against the Cubs in the new Yankee Stadium. Seems fitting for him to end his career in pinstripes at the new Stadium.”

    That was one of the dumbest comments I’ve heard in quite some time….

  525. yankee lover December 27th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Cain is way over rated. He was an average pitcher in a weak league and weak division. We dont need him.

  526. smoothie December 27th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Lets remember the exchange rate from NL to AL is quite large. If we take any NL players please make sure they are above average in that league

  527. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    I love this guy already; I will be very annoyed if the Yankees trade him….and I’m not even that familar with him. He sounds like the kind of guy that could become a real fan favorite

    http://nickswisher.net/journal.html

    NOVEMBER 19, 2008

    Hey there!
    Well, this past week has been quite a whirlwind….and it’s really a dream come true!
    I think every little kid in America who loves baseball, at one point or another, dreams about playing for the New York Yankees. I couldn’t be more excited, not only with the wonderful tradition of the Yankees, but more than anything, to just have the honor to be able to wear the uniform.

    Last season was a very humbling year for me, and I learned a lot from it. I know that I’ve not only grown as a man but as a baseball player in general. The easy times are just that….but you truly grow when you go through the tough times.

    As you all know, I grew up with the Oakland A’s organization and played in Oakland until I was traded to the Chicago White Sox on January 3rd, 2008. They say it’s always an adjustment the first time a player is traded and I can say now, that it’s true. I can’t thank the Chicago White Sox enough for their warm welcome from day one. I have the greatest respect for the entire organization and the passionate fans were the best!

    I can hardly wait for baseball to begin!

    -Swish

  528. Peter Abraham December 27th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Guys:

    Please do not respond to or comment on trolls. It only encourages them.

    Just a reminder: Please be civil in your discourse with each other. No name-calling or personal attacks on each other or others.

    Meanwhile, keep in mind that the software records your IP address and that you can be tracked if you violate the law.

    Sorry about the offensive comments. The issue is out of my hands now and others are dealing with it

  529. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Suave
    December 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
    YankeeRay you just cant move Matsui’s salary. all teams would demand us paying his full salary.its a non subject anyway. matsui has a full*No Trade Clause*

    Matsui will be batting in the 5th spot as DH.Im sure he will have a great season in 09 then go back to japan to finish his career

    —-

    Suave, if Matsui is going to put up 25/100 why would someone expect us to and why would we pay his whole salary?
    If we had to pay a portion of it I would be ok with that but remember, I said only trade him if he is part of a salary dump along with Nady to clear salary for Manny.
    I won’t get off of this until Manny is signed some place because it is a perfect fit with us.
    If we are not on Manny then I would trade Nady for some depth.
    No Damon in CF as he would hurt us too much defensively. Getting Manny alows us to go weak bat in CF and strong defense as we will hit with anyone.
    Right now we are good but Tex doesn’t replace both Giambi and Abreus bats.
    Yeah yeah I know, Posada,Cano and Matsui will all have better years.
    Give me Manny for 2 years and we will have 28 titles, without him we will fight to try and get #27.

  530. Ken December 27th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    If Cashman trades Swisher after how excited he sounded about joining us, then he is just cold hearted.

    You trade for a guy, have a conference call and make him feel apart of the team only to trade him somewhere else? I would hope Cashman has more class than that. Not to mention, Swisher is better than Nady if you ignore the 2008 outlier for both of them.

  531. Yanks 83 December 27th, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    Agree Betsy. Swish is a great clubhouse/chemistry guy and a real grinder. People evaluating him on 2008 know nothing about baseball.

    It would be shameful if Cashman traded him without even giving him a chance.

  532. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    Suave
    December 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
    YankeeJosh: “how about the Yankees sign Bernie to a one day contract and let him call it a career in one of the exhibition games against the Cubs in the new Yankee Stadium. Seems fitting for him to end his career in pinstripes at the new Stadium.”

    That was one of the dumbest comments I’ve heard in quite some time….

    ——

    This is a great idea. Oh, it’s ok for Billy Crystal to get an at bat but not Bernie? Anything that brings goodwill to baseball is good for baseball.

  533. JINT December 27th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    Honestly, it would not shock me if Cash trade Swisher. That just seems to sum up Cashman… he will make a bunch of great moves only to do something puzzling and appalling like trading Swisher in favor of Nady/Brett Gardner. It would be deplorable if Cashman did that, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

  534. A-List December 27th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    We traded Betemit and Marquez for Swisher.

    He also makes $5 million this year, $6.5 in 2010, and $9 million in 2011.

    It’s not like he has incredible trade value… look at how little we gave up for him. We’re not getting anything back for him and we have to probably eat some of the contract. Makes no sense to sell him low like that, especially after Ken Williams already did.

  535. freddy k December 27th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    No reason to trade Damon, Matsui, or Swisher

    Nady has to be the one to go if we have to move someone

  536. pat December 27th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Interesting read on Joba.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=0

  537. Distd December 27th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Joba will be fine, he is our ace and the only young player to live up to the hype

  538. steve December 27th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    joba can do whatever he wants, as long as he stays clean during the season and continues to throw 100 MPH

  539. AeroFANatic December 27th, 2008 at 8:44 pm

    I think the recent signings are good ones. The 2 signings that I question are Posada’s recent, and Jeter’s upcoming.

    Sure, 4 more years for an aging catcher is alot. However with a DH slot and no Matsui or Damon in 2010 or beyond, I think Posada will be DHing alot.

    Which brings me to Jeter. He’s unrestricted after 2010. Can/will the Yanks make him offers of 20+ million? I gotta say no…considering his declining production, he just isnt worth that much stratch.

    What say you?

  540. Trevor December 27th, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    There’s no way the Yankees are paying Jeter 20+ million when his contract expires. A huge pay cut is in his future.
    He wasn’t a 20 million dollar ball players when they signed him and he certainly isn’t one now.

  541. AeroFANatic December 27th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    Trevor, I hear ya….but what’s acceptable to Jeter and vice-versa? 3-4 at 45-60 million? And, does he move to LF….or stay at short where his range will only get more limited??

    I love all that Jeter brings, but I think if the Yanks offer anything more than 2-3 years…they will be regretting it.

  542. colt maz December 27th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    i don’t think jeter will accept not being the highest paid player on the team

    id imagine he would want his new contract to surpass arod’s AAV

  543. RalphieD (Cant wait for 09) December 27th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    “i don’t think jeter will accept not being the highest paid player on the team

    id imagine he would want his new contract to surpass arod’s AAV”

    yea…thats not jeter at all = =

  544. sevrox December 27th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    betsy: “I’m tired of depending on sportswriters for my happiness – …”

    With that statement, there would appear to be a larger problem…

  545. AeroFANatic December 27th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    This Jeter thing *could* turn into a major issue, and out of loyalty the Yanks may make a bad biz decision. As for the lineup, barring a trade…this lineup nets us our best chance nightly :

    LF – Damon
    SS – Jeter
    1B – Teixiera
    3B – Rodriguez
    DH – Matsui
    C – Posada
    RF – Nady
    2B – Cano
    CF – Swisher

  546. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    “Chamberlain downed vodka and soda for hours at a strip club in his hometown of Lincoln, Neb., traded drunken insults with a Red Sox fan…”

    Take it out on Youk’s skull.

  547. bru December 27th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    signing posada to 4 years was crazy.hopefully they dont make the same mistake with jeter,if he demands 12mil + per year let him go

  548. yankees 6 December 27th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    sevrox,

    aint that the truth lol,

  549. Marks Sparl December 27th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Depending on sports in general for your happiness is unhealthy.

    Depending on sports writers for happiness is just sad

    Depending on Hughes for happiness is just setting yourself up to fail

  550. bru December 27th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    LF – Damon
    SS – Jeter
    1B – Teixiera
    3B – Rodriguez
    RF – Manny
    DH – Matsui
    C – Posada
    2B – Cano
    CF – Swisher

    thats the lineup with Nady getting traded for Matt Cain

  551. R-Tek December 27th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Nick – Let’s hope so haha

  552. Captain Jeter December 27th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    So, thats what the Daily News was doing 2 days after Christmas? Investigating Joba’s background?

    Just sad. Joba is our ace, he needs to take his aggression out on opposing players. He is a terrific young pitcher, he;ll be fine.

  553. JP Brax December 27th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    The coverage on Teixeria has been lacking.

    No comments from Yankee players, no research into his past, no information from former teammates, no anonymous quotes from people about how excited Teixera is to come here etc.

    There has not been many articles on him at all.

  554. Tom December 27th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    “The Reds have been in discussion with the New York Yankees about their extra outfielders, but no deals are close. ”

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....tty-t.html

  555. Aunty Garlick December 27th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    JP Brax
    December 27th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
    The coverage on Teixeria has been lacking.

    No comments from Yankee players, no research into his past, no information from former teammates, no anonymous quotes from people about how excited Teixera is to come here etc.

    There has not been many articles on him at all.

    Its Xmas mate.

  556. Pinstriper Jay December 27th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    Sevrox—

    She is crazy. One of those people who talks about how much they hate the media, only to post links every morning with emphatic commentary about how they will never read their articles again (until the next morning when she reads something else she doesn’t like [but is probably true] and reacts angrily to it). So transparent and obsessive.

    Or making fun of Francessa and talking about how crazy he is, only to quote his rants word for word for 3 paragraphs, along with more commentary. Sports is purely entertainment, yet people make it more than that. It’s more insanity than it is passion, IMO.

  557. Y26 December 27th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    hmmm… Do the Reds have anything we want?

  558. RalphieD (Cant wait for 09) December 27th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    “thats the lineup with Nady getting traded for Matt Cain”

    l…o…l

  559. AP December 27th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Nady and Hughes for Jay Bruce?

  560. Aunty Garlick December 27th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Reds have Chris Valaika a SS. we need to start getting some depth at SS

  561. AeroFANatic December 27th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    They may want us to take Aaron Harang’s contract :

    09 – 11mil
    10 – 12.5mil
    11 – 12.75mil (2m buyout)

    Melky and Igawa for Harang?

  562. bru December 27th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    the 9:57 pm post & the 10:00 post was not me.

    it is probably reality check.hav.t seen him in a while.

  563. Frontier December 27th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    Damon can NOT play CF next year. He has no arm and no range. Teams will run on him all day.

    Go into the season with a Gardner/Melky platoon and give them a month to show something. If they don’t, then you can acquire Cameron.

  564. Jeff NJ December 27th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Put me in the “we don’t need to trade one of the OF’s camp”. I think Damon will be in the lineup almost everyday, starting mostly in LF, occasionally CF. Matsui rarely needs to play the field. Swisher, Nady, Gardner and Matsui each play 3 out of 4 days. Maybe like this:

    Mon: Damon CF, Swisher RF, Nady LF, Matsui DH
    Tues: Gardner CF, Swisher RF, Damon LF, Matsui DH
    Wed: Gardner CF, Swisher RF, Nady LF, Damon DH
    Thurs: Gardner CF, Nady RF, Damon LF, Matsui DH

  565. 4 x 4 December 27th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    Harang… that is an intriguing option for the back of our rotation. Nady for Harang maybe.

  566. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    haha someone has been posting as me too. pete ya need to change your blog to register ya username

  567. AeroFANatic December 27th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Cinci certainly is in the market for a LF. Nady for Harrang or even Arroyo may work. However, Cin would most likely also want a Kennedy or someone for their rotation.

  568. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Cincy wont be giving up starting pitching unless they get a SP back…and dont say Igawa

  569. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Sevrox, you obviously didn’t read that statement in its proper context. What I was saying was that I don’t give a fig for what sportswriters have to say. If they want to throw cold water on Yankee fans for idiotic reasons (perfect example is Ken Davidoff’s last two blogs), then so be it. As a Yankee fan, I can make my own judgments as to whether they’ve made the right decisions or not; we all can.

  570. Clint December 27th, 2008 at 10:41 pm

    I’d do Nady and Kennedy for Harang.

    Dusty Baker, as usual, ruined him last year by pitching him in relief in an extra innings game.

  571. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    I see Yankees 6 also decided to completely twist my words. Ok have it your way.

    As to Joba, I’m staying out of it except to say that it appears the Daily News (who IS this writer anyway?) is just trying to stir the pot. It’s pathetic, but I expect nothing less out of a paper that employs Bill Madden and Mike Lupica.

  572. O*Line December 27th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    Some team is bound to give us something good for one of the OFers. Cinci is an interesting trade partner though. Wonder what was being offered

  573. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    Shees, Pinstriper Jay. Is this how you deal with people in real life? I’ve never exchanged two words with you before (thank goodness, apparently – that would have been a waste of time), yet you decide to make snide comments on a board where I’m obviously going to see them. I assume in real life you have no problem insulting people to their faces?

    I’m not going to get into a flame war with you.

  574. Aunty Garlick December 27th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    why do we need to trade one of our OF’s. hold on to them, sign a Benson,Colon,Prior,Mulder or Pedro to a 1yr deal for 2mil
    and fill the bench alex cora,eric hinske

    then see what needs attention come trade deadline

  575. RalphieD (Cant wait for 09) December 27th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    “Cinci certainly is in the market for a LF. Nady for Harrang or even Arroyo may work. However, Cin would most likely also want a Kennedy or someone for their rotation.”

    francessa would be happy

  576. dan 771 December 27th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    we don’t need to trade anyone, we can have a rotation each day like that guy above suggested or you can create incredible bench depth.

    problem is… who do you bench? these guys are all starting players, i doubt they will be happy with a reduced role.

    if you go in with all of them on the roster, that means damon in center.

  577. Sea Net December 27th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    I really don’t have a problem with Damon in center. Wouldn’t be ideal, but it’s not unthinkable.

  578. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love December 27th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    “The Reds have been in discussion with the New York Yankees about their extra outfielders, but no deals are close. ”

    ———————————————————

    “Get me Arroyo!”

    -Mike Francesa

  579. REggie78 December 27th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    The problem with carrying all of them and putting one on the bench (in order to have Gardner in center and Damon in left) is that if Gardner gets off to a rough start, the cries to put Damon back in center and put Nady/Swisher back in he starting lineup will be loud. Gardner is going to have to be nearly flawless.

    I mean, how does Girardi explain to the rest of the team that he is benching Nady in favor of Brett Gardner, regardless of defense?

  580. Wilson December 27th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    “Get me that kid from Pittsburgh with the blonde hair!”

  581. Aunty Garlick December 27th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    a big hell NO!!!! to Arroyo.

    no real yankee fan wants to see vanilla ice giving up moonshots in pinstripes

  582. Tom December 27th, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    With Posada and Matsui coming off injuries, having the extra bat on the bench is a must.

  583. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 11:06 pm

    i agree Tom

  584. Oddessy December 27th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    Tom,

    Agree. All the great Yankee teams had a masher on the bench, Having a guy like Nady there would be huge in case of an injury or pinch hitting. The more depth the better.

  585. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    December 27th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
    we don’t need to trade anyone, we can have a rotation each day like that guy above suggested or you can create incredible bench depth.

    problem is… who do you bench? these guys are all starting players, i doubt they will be happy with a reduced role.

    ——

    I agree that playing time will be an issue.
    Nady is most movable but for what?
    Trade Nady and Matsui and sign Manny and we are untouchable.

    Damon LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Arod 3B
    Manny DH
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Swisher RF
    Melk/Gard CF

    I agree, I don’t think we can keep all 4 due to playing time. Nady is most movable but for what back?
    Just trade Nady and Matsui and sign Manny and no one touches us.

    Damon LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Arod 3B
    Manny DH
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Swisher RF
    Gard/Melk CF

  586. Adam December 27th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Nady in LF
    Damon in CF
    Swisher in RF

  587. 34 Score December 27th, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    I love the idea of keeping all 3, but lets be real… these guys won’t be happy with reduced playing time. All of them are starting players. In the case of Nady/Swisher, in their primes and Nady is a FA after this season and will want to be a regular, not a bench player.

  588. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Oddessy
    December 27th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
    Tom,

    Agree. All the great Yankee teams had a masher on the bench, Having a guy like Nady there would be huge in case of an injury or pinch hitting. The more depth the better.

    —–

    But I wouldn’t consider Nady a masher on the bench like Strawberry, Chili, Cecil etc…
    Matsui would be the closest to that and he’s not coming off the bench for 13 mill.
    Sign Manny and go find someone for that roll later.

  589. TexasNYY December 27th, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    Betsy, no offense but that guy is kind of right. I do notice the rants you have about the media and saying you will never read them again, yet you quote them day after day. If you hate them so much why do you read it or listen to the talk shows? I don’t think anyone has a problem with it, but no reason to rip into that guy for telling the truth.

  590. jennifer December 27th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Kennedy for YO-YO. That is nuts.

  591. TexasNYY December 27th, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    Giambi would be the PERFECT guy to play the Strawberry role.

    Too bad he wants a starting job/long term deal, but someone like him would be ideal. An older vet that can still swing it and willing to come off the bench in order to be apart of a winning team.

  592. Wilson December 27th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    Nady for Homer Baily

  593. Tom December 27th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Make Swisher the 4th OFer.

    He’s a Switch hitter with power and a great eye. He hit .219 last season; if he complains about not starting just remind him that he hit .219 last season.

    He’ll get his at bats. These things always seem to work out.

  594. TurnTables December 27th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Tom,

    He deserves a 2nd chance though, to prove last year was an anomaly . He can only get that if he is playing everyday for an extended period of time.

    I think the best course of action is just to just forgo the OF defense and go with Damon in CF. It’s not like Gardner is going to be given a ton of rope with Swisher on the team anyway.

  595. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    swisher is a better outfielder than Nady

  596. John December 27th, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    Suave,

    I agree.

  597. jennifer December 27th, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    I believe Homer Baily was already traded.

  598. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    TurnTables
    December 27th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
    Tom,

    He deserves a 2nd chance though, to prove last year was an anomaly . He can only get that if he is playing everyday for an extended period of time.

    I think the best course of action is just to just forgo the OF defense and go with Damon in CF. It’s not like Gardner is going to be given a ton of rope with Swisher on the team anyway.

    —-

    No Damon in CF, no arm and limited range and that will wear his legs out even faster than in LF.
    Nady and Matsui are 1 yr and out and obviously not part of what Cash is building.
    Trade them both and sign Manny for 2yrs with an option. We have a strong 3 yr window and this year we need to win. Nady and Matsui are not part of our future.
    Say all you want about Manny but if we missed on Tex then Manny was coming so what has changed? We obviously are ok with the locker room issues and if we trade both Nady and Matsui we can afford Manny, just go internal with the 5th spot. Manny wants to be here and how great would that be on our first trip to Fenway with him and Tex surrounding Arod?

  599. yankee 822 December 27th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    Swisher did hit 35 HRs in McAffee Colosseum

  600. Forntoso December 27th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Just trade Nady and the problem is solved.

  601. Betsy December 27th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    Texas, being called crazy is not something that most people want to hear about themselves. In any case, that’s the last of it from my end. I’d rather talk baseball.

    I can see the value of trading Nady while his value is at its highest. On the other hand, I like the idea of having good depth in the OF – with the Yankees’ run of luck lately (the injuries), they’ll need it.

    I think Cash should just sit tight for now….unless he can swing a deal for a CF on a short-term basis. Melky stinks and I only like Gardner as a spare OF/pinch runner.

  602. Ken December 27th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    Nady is our Paul O’Neil

  603. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Ken Nady aint got jack on paulie..please take that comment back

  604. F7 TD December 27th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Swisher is the definition of a grinder. He led the league in pitches seen last year, is patient at the plate and takes his walks, and has very good power.

    He needs to start over Nady

  605. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 27th, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    Everyone had a clear role a week ago.

    Trade Teixeira for Washburn. We might have to eat some of his salary. He’ll waive the NTC, he’s a team player.

  606. distd December 27th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Maybe Damon can start and then Melky can go in as a defensive replacement every night?

  607. YankeeRay December 27th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Ken
    December 27th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
    Nady is our Paul O’Neil

    This one is giving me a headache

  608. jennifer December 27th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    I think Nick drank a little too much Egg Nog. :lol: just kidding.

  609. Suave December 27th, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    to Nick in SF in Charlotte…..is that you Peter Gammons???????

  610. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 28th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    “I dunno if everyone here is familiar with Sanchez but he has great stuff. He has a mid 90’s fastball, great developing breaking stuff and he has a fiery attitude. He has the makings of a young Pettitte.”

    Dude Jonathan’s stuff is alot better than Pettitte if he puts it together his ceiling is = to a Scott Kazmir. If this is possible to do this for Nady get it done ASAP.

  611. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 28th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    “If this is possible to do this for Nady get it done ASAP.”

    but the Giants are against trading for players that is entering their walk year. :(

  612. Eric December 28th, 2008 at 12:26 am

    Johnathan Sanchez is soooooo overrated. He is the new Daniel Cabrera

  613. Josh December 28th, 2008 at 12:27 am

    brandon you gotta think, sanchez is good, but he pitched against the NL west, and kaz pitched against the AL east

  614. Nick in SF in Charlotte December 28th, 2008 at 12:27 am

    The point is that finding enough playing time for Swisher and Nady isn’t the worst problem.

    PAT M, sorry the Bears couldn’t cover the number. I’m just happy they won the game.

  615. Buddy Biancalana December 28th, 2008 at 12:27 am

    Now that the San Francisco Giants have lefty veteran Randy Johnson locked up, they are willing to listen to offers involving Jonathan Sanchez. Chris Haft of MLB.com asked Giants general manager Brian Sabean about the possibility after signing Johnson.

    From Haft:

    “We’re going to have to be open-minded,” Sabean said, although he repeated that he wouldn’t obtain a player who’s eligible for free agency after 2009.

    The Giants have been listed as one of the teams who might be a good trade partner with the New York Yankees for a corner outfielder, in particular Xavier Nady, but he doesn’t meet Sabean’s requirement regarding free agency. Nady’s contract ends after the ’09 season.

    ==========================================

    Nady for Sanchez very unlikely.

  616. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 28th, 2008 at 12:30 am

    seriously does anyone remember 2008 with all the injuries? just keep them, and if anything happens we will be prepared.

  617. Viper December 28th, 2008 at 12:32 am

    Dude Jonathan’s stuff is alot better than Pettitte if he puts it together his ceiling is = to a Scott Kazmir. If this is possible to do this for Nady get it done ASAP.

    ———————–

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  618. Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees) December 28th, 2008 at 12:39 am

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  619. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! December 28th, 2008 at 12:41 am

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    Pitching coach Eiland should feel shameful to say so, with zero win by his juniors, Phil Hugh and Ian Kennedy in 2008. Throughout his baseball career, he’s never been in MLB at any moment.
    On the otherhand, Giradi’s only strength is his skills with the media. He may be able to deliver lectures, actually is impotent for a long term performance.
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  625. Paul December 29th, 2008 at 9:09 am

    Back to April 27th,2008, the game demonstrates that NYY’s Wang knock out Indian’s CC Sabathia with 9K and 1:0.
    You can realize Wang is better than Sabathia and more stable and reilable than Sabathia.

  626. Paul December 29th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    To Sylvia:
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    And sooner you will see how Sabathia demonstrate his ability like a pussy cat as what he did in 2008 in Indians. NYY will
    then know it is not woth paying so much cash on him!

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