Girardi moves up the tenure list
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Dec 29, 2008 
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New York, New York, big city of dreams
But everything in New York ain’t always what it seems
Grandmaster Flash had it right, especially if you’re a coach or manager of one of the nine pro franchises in the metropolitan area.
Joe Girardi has been the manager of the Yankees for 14 months now. Now that Eric Mangini has been canned, only four coaches or managers have been at their respective jobs longer: Tom Coughlin (Giants since 2004), Lawrence Frank (Nets since 2004), Tom Renney (Rangers, 2004) and Brent Sutter (Devils, July 2007).
The Knicks, Mets, Islanders and now the Jets have all made changes since Girardi was hired by the Yankees. Isn’t that amazing?
Mangini is a smart young guy who probably knows football. But his tough-guy act with the players wore thin; he alienated the media and then he lost the fans by pretending everything was OK when it wasn’t. Then today he became Tessio.
It’s never personal in New York, only business. The question now is who gets it next.
With the amount of veteran talent on this team, Marty Schottenheimer is the guy they should hire.
Players coach. Can work with vets and develop young players (something that’s tough to do at the same time), and has no desires to run everything.
I think Marty would jump at the chance to coach the Jets.
The rumors are he is headed to Cleveland for a return engagement with the Browns.
If I was Woody Johnson, he would be the guy I’d hire to fix the team.
SJ-
If the Yanks don’t re sign Andy, do they stay in house for another SP? or take a flier off the junk pile?
I agree Marty Schottenheimer will get a chance
Kat O’Brien, on her blog, has a great rundown of all of the offers made and the timing of the Tex deal. Boras told the Yanks they had to offer 10 years, the Yanks refused. Boras then told them they needed to up the total $ to $192, the Yanks refused. Boras told the Yanks he was going to Boston, in that case. 20 minutes later, Boras called and said he was going to be a Yankee.
Buddy,
I’d rather see Hughes get a shot at the #5 spot. Pettitte is taking too long to sign and his second half was horrible.
Razr-
Agreed on Hughes, sounds like he may be pitching his way back into the rotation.
His sidelines facial expressions lost him that job alone.
I still think Pettitte will have his decision by week’s end.
“His sidelines facial expressions lost him that job alone.”
Haha. He looks like John Mayer when he’s playing guitar.
good call.
I’m worried about Pettitte’s elbow and age. Looking at what happened in the second half, those could be a factor.
On the other hand, with Joba on an innings limit and AJ’s injury history, it might make sense to have Pettitte there to give them innings. Hughes would more than likely have an innings limit also.
2 years ago I would have said Kennedy, but he needs to show his winter stats are legit before I commit to him.
Without Pettitte, in all likelihood, it will be a combination of Hughes, Kennedy, and Aceves due to innings caps on Hughes and Kennedy. In fact, even with Coke thrown into that mix, it could a combination of the four of them and Joba for the last two slots in the rotation due to Joba’s innings cap.
“His sidelines facial expressions lost him that job alone.”
Either that or the gum chewing.
Aceves and Coke are interesting canidates. I liked what I saw of both, but I think they’d be more effective out of the pen. Who knows? I sit at a computer all day running financials…long way away from making a pitching staff.
i still want the yanks to add pettite we need innings and u now he gonna give it all he has and u no joba is in a innings limit then we can havew hughes and aceves pitch and god forbid and injury we have kennedy or any other ready prospect
P.S. How is Lawrence Frank still employed in the Tri-State my god HOW someone tell me… what makes him a good coach ?
“i still want the yanks to add pettite we need innings and u now he gonna give it all he has and u no joba is in a innings limit”
We offered him 10 million he’s giving us the talk to the hand, so we’re soon going to be flipping him the bird.
The Jets should def go after Marty
Peter to your question who is next, I have to say its either Girardi or Sutter since hockey is always changing coaches. What is flying under the radar with all these signings is the fact that if Girardi doesnt win he will be hear it all year long. These signings are great to us “fans” but if you really look at it, it could be really dangerous for Joe. I dont know if its as far as WS or hes gone but I will go as far to say he has to bring them to the ALCS. If not I could see him gone. I say BUCK SHOWALTER should be the next Yankees manager. No way Mattingly is coming back I think..
Brandon (CC & AJ now Marky Mark (they stilled over paid him) are Yankees):
The Nets should never have let go of Byron Scott..
Sorry to see Mangini go. I think he had the potential to be a special head coach in the NFL but he jumped into bad-ass mode too early for such an unproven coach. You can play that role as a position coach where you only need a handful of guys to buy in but when you’re a head coach that stuff isn’t flying.
Anyone but Cowher is second tier. The Jets MUST find out what it will take IF he’s even interested. If not, then Marty makes a lot of sense as long as you don’t want to win post-season games (5-and-13). He’s also 65 and I’m not a big senior tour guy. If I wasn’t a much bigger Giants fan I’d want them to hire Spagnola.
Tim just copy and paste Brandon and yes I agree there.
Marty Schottenheimer is 66.
“Mangini needs to be fired before he gets back to the locker room. What a disgrace.”
“Mangini is a smart young guy who probably knows football.”
Will the real Pete Abe. please step forward.
So I missed out on all the Teixeira squabble on this blog last week cuz of Christmas.
The more I’ve allowed it to settle, the more content I find myself with the decision, although I still think 1B was the least of our concern from an offensive perspective.
Now the yankees have to figure out what to do with guys like Posada and Jeter in the next few years. I anticipate Jeter in LF in 2010 or 2011. Does anyone know if his arm is strong enough for Center? I am inclined to say it isn’t.
As Peter pointed out, Montero better pan out as a Catcher or start learning the OF because 1B is not an option now.
The Yanks just signed 425 million dollars worth of talent, so, it’s not likely that they’ll have two young, innings challenged pitchers in the rotation…especially after last year. Hughes/Aceves will be needed to pick up Chamberlain’s innings and any others that may come because of injuries. For their further development, Hughes and Kennedy will be better suited opening in Scranton.
Brandon,
I agree with you on giving Pettitte the bird at this point even if he is my favorite pitcher of the Yankees over the past 10 years.
If he wants to win, pitch in the new stadium, and have a far less stressful role on the team, then he should stop being an idiot and sign on.
Otherwise, we have to look elsewhere.
The cool part is we have the luxury of waiting him out.
If he goes and pitches in LA or Texas for 2 million more next season, he is not intelligent.
Sorry Brandon: got it..
Looking at the advertisement at the top of the page, why would anybody want help in getting free debt….and, how could debt be free? I paid plenty for my debt.
If the jets are smart they should take the Giants Defencive coordinator Spagnola! He will fix there defence and they should drop brett farve and give Clemens a chance!
from last thread
Hey Pete the silleto add is getting hotter by the minute. Are we going to have to pay to get into your site soon?
Im not happy with Penny going to Boston for 5 mil. His potential is Ace. I know he had attitude problems but we dont need a full squad of boy scouts. I think he would have been a good fit at the number 4 spot. I wonder if we can get a Sheets for cheap now that Penny was signed for nothing. Maybe we can do an incentive laden deal for him.
In regards to center field. The more i think of it the more i think we should stick with Melky now that we have a big bat in Tex. We need defense out there more than offense. We dont need a #9 hitter to hit .300 25 bombs. If we were to pull off a deal, wouldnt mind going after Figgins.
I really thought that the Pettitte situation would have been resolved by now.
Chuck Mangione probably could have done a better job than Mangini.
Go Dolphins!
Marty Schottenheimer?????
The guy is great at getting to the playoffs, but he always freezes in the big game.
Does any one know when the Tex press conference will be?
“Hey Pete the silleto add is getting hotter by the minute. Are we going to have to pay to get into your site soon?”
Folks, that’s the best line of the year!
I’m beginning to think Cashman may be looking into trading Nady/Matsui for some help at catcher. If Posada can’t do the job, there is the weak spot at this point. Some infield bench depth, salary dump, even a few draft picks are ok, but catcher may be the tipping point right now.
LTL, why we have Molina who did a great job last year given the circumstances.
Besides I specifically remember reading a report on him that said this off season he was going to work out more just in case he had to catch more this season.
Belichick stopped winning Super Bowls after Mangini left. Perhaps he should offer him a job.
ellen,
you’d think it’d be resolved by now huh?
Pettitte needs to come to terms with his not being a $16 million dollar, 1/2 type pitcher anymore.
Mr.T is going to be on WFAN !
Oh I just realized it was Tannenbaum
The Diet Coke spokesperson just took a shot at the Cowboy fans. + 1
“Chuck Mangione probably could have done a better job than Mangini.”
At the very least he would have made the fans ” Feel so Good”
i notice albert pujols can opt out of his contract in 2011 i wonder what team he might go to do u guys think since the red sox missed out on texeira there gonna giv ethe money to him or do u think the yanks try to sign him and b our full time dh this is kind of interesting cuz pujols is a offensive machine i wouldnt mind seen him in pinstripes
Katie, I like Molina as the backup catcher, but no matter how hard he works out, his hitting isn’t going to be enough to make the grade. I’m only suggesting that the Yankees might be looking at this position, not necessarily that they are going to make any more trades or signings. I don’t have a license to practice general managing, just a curiosity about what might make the team stronger. Posada has been a fine player for many years, but his injury and age truly make me wonder. GB7 and SJ44 have mentioned several young catchers in the farm system, all of whom seem a few years away from the big show. Rodriquez was supposed to supply the bridge but didn’t reach whatever potential Cashman thought he saw.
I’m not concerned about more pitching, but do see the need for stronger infield depth and some effort to bolster the catching.
“i notice albert pujols can opt out of his contract in 2011 i wonder what team he might go to do u guys think since the red sox missed out on texeira there gonna giv ethe money to him or do u think the yanks try to sign him and b our full time dh this is kind of interesting cuz pujols is a offensive machine i wouldnt mind seen him in pinstripes”
If your Pujols knowing you are a better 1B than Tex, better all around hitter, what makes you think he will take the DH role ? He might not even leave STL. Anyway getting Tex closed the chapter on this too.
If the Yankees believe (and I think they do) that Phil needs more time in AAA (thanks in part to them rushing him in 2007), then he should spend more time in AAA, even if Andy doesn’t return. The team can’t just make seat-of-the-pants decisions with their young players – they need to have a plan and they need to stick with it. SJ44 mentioned Sheets – I don’t see him taking a 1 year deal, but if he would, I might consider it. The problem is, his medicals obviously stink. If he didn’t work out, then the Yankees would be in real trouble. They need a cheap, servicable starter than could give them decent innings……
I think Andy has been extremely foolish here. If he’s being led around by the nose by his agents, then he’s not much of a man. If he thinks he’s worth $16 million, then he’s delusional.
Pujols is a better fielder than Teixeira by a significant margin. He is the best player in MLB.
To reply to a couple of posts in the prior thread, I don’t buy at all that Tex’ first preference was to return to CA. I buy that he liked it a lot more than he thought he would, but I do think he wanted to be a Yankeee. I’m just not that cynical to think that no player will ever want to be a Yankee unless he’s overpaid by millions to be here. The Yankees’ offer beat the Sox by a total of $10 million – that’s chump change in the scheme of things. Boras kept going back to the Yankees because his client wanted the Yankees to make a good enough offer for him to accept. Once the Yankees heard that Tex did want to be a Yankee (and they must have gotten decent vibes from their meeting in DC), then they had no issue with giving Tex the extra $10 million. Why fight over relative peanuts? I agree with SJ that these were negotiations that ended well for all parties.
I doubt very much that Pujols would come to the Yankees to DH; Teix is also a very good outfielder as well. But it is not going to happen. Too much $$$
I wonder if Pioli would bolt to the Browns..
http://www.cleveland.com/brown.....ot_in.html
They are even interested in Mangini?
as of now, with tex, cc and burnett all being signed, i’m pretty happy as a yankees fan. they all are big improvements to the team, and even if there are other kinks that need to be worked out at other positions like outfield and catching, it should still be a good, or at least exciting, season this year.
but for catching, i’ve never been a big posada fan, and he’s awful at throwing runners out (13% i think, and the league avereage is in the 20′s%). that position is going to be something the yankees have got to figure out in the coming seasons no doubt
Since we’re talking about superstars joining the Yanks in the future. When does Siezmore start roaming centerfield for us?
At least I got to be on The Sopranos.
“I doubt very much that Pujols would come to the Yankees to DH; *Teix is also a very good outfielder as well*. But it is not going to happen. Too much $$$”
You got proof of this ?
Since we’re talking about superstars joining the Yanks in the future. When does Siezmore start roaming centerfield for us?
i think hes an outstading hitter and a great defensive player that would b great but i think sizemore patrolls center for a while for cleveland
uh oh @ Chapter
Renney and Sather have done a far worse job, yet because the media doesn’t care about hockey, they get to keep them because there is no searching scrutiny.
Fire Renney.
Fire Sather.
The media needs to step up and make it happen.
I think Renney is on his last legs. Not sure about Sather, but I too would like to see him gone.
Not a big basketball follower, but I gotta think the clock is ticking on Lawrence Frank.
No no nonono I’m sorry the Rangers are rebuilding leave them alone they have some hope, Lawrence Frank is a must fire, I can’t stand that little Opie is still coaching in the NBA.
“Renney and Sather have done a far worse job”
Far worse job than who?
“Pujols is a better fielder than Teixeira by a significant margin”
i dont think you can be “significantly” better defensively at first than tex…
Predictions
Colts over Chargers
Ravens over Dolphins
Facons over Cards
Eagles over Vikings
Colts over Steelers
Ravens over Titans
Giants over Eagles
Falcons over Panthers
Colts over Ravens
Giants over Falcons
Manning over Manning
Colts over Giants
Part of the Jets’ problem is their offensive play-calling. Brian Schottenheimer is a lousy OC. Hiring Marty Schottenheimer guarantees a return of his son. So, as good a coach as Marty is, they need to get rid of Brian if they hope to get better and more consistent.
*Manning over Manning
Giants over Colts*
–
Fixed that for ya.
Teixeira was a third baseman in the minors. He also played both right and left fields in Texas. But, to say he’s a ” very good outfielder” is silly. He has a total of 38 games played in the OF.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....eira.shtml
“i dont think you can be “significantly” better defensively at first than tex… ”
Yes you can. Pujols is amazing at first.
Check out the fielding bible. Over the last 3 years Pujols is +82, Tex is +22. Teixeira had his best season in the field this year, he was actually close to Pujols. However if you look at the last several years Pujols is much better.
Sizemore has a contract through 2012. We won’t be seeing him anytime soon.
“Teix is also a very good outfielder as well.”
Teixeira has played a total of 32 games in the OF (25 in 2003 and 7 in 2004). He had 37 PO in 38 chances with no assists.
As a fielding percentage, Teixeira has a career .996 with 31 errors in 853 games compared to Pujols’ .994 with 51 errors in 873 games.
Pujols has a bigger range factor (10.85) compared to Teix (9.84), but I’d rather have someone that’s going to handle the ball better.
I’m not a big believer in the fiedling bible…these people are the ones that rank Jeter dead last for SS. Even if he doesn’t get to every ball, how can he be dead last?
“I’m not a big believer in the fiedling bible…these people are the ones that rank Jeter dead last for SS. Even if he doesn’t get to every ball, how can he be dead last?”
Because he is when you take off the love goggles he truely is. He even has a GG that should have went to Alex Gonzalez I forgot which yr. but literally he gets to the flyball most CF should get to but just because the fielding bible doesn’t rate him well doesn’t mean they are all that off.
None of us actually knows the status of the discussions between Pettitte and the Yanks right now, right?
“Teixeira was a third baseman in the minors. He also played both right and left fields in Texas. But, to say he’s a ” very good outfielder” is silly. He has a total of 38 games played in the OF. ”
Thanks Tom I figured that. IDK how anyone could say he can play the OF based on that small sample.
I personally would have kept Mangini for one more year and gotten rid of Favre but I’m not a Jets fan so people can take my opinion for what it’s worth. I think Favre’s best years are behind him.
Here are the discussions between Pettitte and Cashman:
“I need $16MM to return. You know, I do have a 3 yr contract offer with another team” – Pettitte
“HAHAHAHAHAHA, I’m Cash-$ b**CH” – Cashman
That’s more or less how it’s going…
Razr, fielding % and range factor are mostly meaningless when determining how good a fielder someone is.
The fielding bible isn’t the only source that shows Pujols is the best fielding 1B in the league. CB knows more about this than I but just looking at RZR shows that Pujols is a more consistently excellent fielder.
There’s no doubt that Teixeira had a great year in the field last year but if you look at the past 3 years, Pujols is clearly superior.
If Andy isin’t coming back then Hughes WILL be in the rotation, no question.
They have not spent $420 million dollars this off-season just to throw a warm body in the 5th spot. They are in it to win it. Hughes is the best option and ready or not, he will be in the rotation if there is no Andy.
Move Teixeria to the outfield when we get Pujols in 2011
-Move Teixeria to the outfield when we get Pujols in 2011-
I’m sorry I couldn’t stomache to look at this.
isn’t Pujols’s elbow in need of TJ?
“Move Teixeria to the outfield when we get Pujols in 2011″
or maybe have Pujols for DH, if Montero isn;t ready.
“Far worse job than who?”
Mangini.
Not to mention, as soon as Aceves has a bad start, Hughes will be up here anyway even if he isin’t ready. You know how this FO operates. Hughes will be the 5th starter.
-or maybe have Pujols for DH, if Montero isn;t ready.-
I can’t believe I had to do that to ya Ed, you know Pujols isn’t going to play caddy for anyone let alone go DH. He’s going to make probably 30 million from any team in the majors in 2011 and he will be 31 I think so I doubt he’s saying sure I’ll play DH.
Brandon, I’m sorry.
lol
Patrick,
I see your point about RZR fielding stats. Given that we’ve had Giambi, Teixeira’s fielding is a godsend. It’s no wonder the guy had Mattingly as an idol…
I’ve almost finished my time machine, The Yankees choose Albert Pujols in the 12th round of the 1999 draft. Jesus, have you seen Pujol’s stats since he broke into the league?
http://www.baseball-reference......ype=junreg
———–
that Lou Witte kid is sure a bust.
Cherepanov died because of Russian PEDs it was just released on WFAN.
it’s amazing how Tex’s per annual salary is less then Giambi’s final salary.
Ed it took 13 rds. for him to be selected, predicting H.S. players isn’t an easy task. Also check who the Angels picked right before Pujols was picked by STL.
http://www.baseball-reference......ype=junreg
Brandon,
LOL. I didnt notice that. god forbid if the Angels did selected Pujols, holy smokes we would get swept every time, and the Angels wouldn’t be in this mess during the Teixeria sweeptakes.
According to the “Feilding Bible” Teix was +22 for the last 3 seasons (06, 07, 08).
In 2008 he was at a +24, which was the best among 1b.
Is the 2006-2008 number a total for the last 3 seasons?
Who are the morons saying sign pujols?? Wow
Yeah I’m definitely not knocking Teixeira’s fielding skills. He is a good defender, no doubt about it. Last year he was an excellent fielder, hopefully that trend continues.
mlb.com just put up new pik of the stadium
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....23598.html
“Mangini is a smart young guy who probably knows football.”
Gee whiz, what an insult to the guy. What gives?
How good would Josh Hamilton look in CF…and hitting behind A-Rod?
The clubhouse is the size of a hotel lobby
We can always trade Teix when Pujols is a free agent
Steve Spagnuolo will make a great coach of the Jets…
it’s going to happen…Yankees move a OF or two & sign Manny for two years
I say sign Pujolz and put him in center field.
I read yesterday on espn that Favre didnt like Mangini chewing him out in the principles office. Could that have been part of the reason why he got canned? Favre needs to hang em up and let these teams move on with younger players. Thats aside from him sucking this year and most importantly, he needs to retire so Manning can finally inch closer to his records.
This was reported on Fanball a little while ago. The end of Andy
The News
There is a rumor that the Yankees are talking to the Mariners about a trade involving pitcher Erik Bedard for outfielder Hideki Matsui, according to BleedingBlueandTeal.com. Peter Gammons originally reported the news on ESPN radio.
Our View
The Mariners covet a productive outfielder with power after losing Raul Ibanez, and Matsui would fill their need. But losing Bedard would be tough as he is the ace of the Mariners’ pitching staff, assuming he bounces back healthy. If he lands with the Yankees, the club would have four ace hurlers in their rotation with CC
The yankees really don’t need a superstar at every position. The yankees never had a regular left fielder during the good years in the 90s, but they had a bunch of very solid hitters coming off the bench like cecil fielder and strawberry. I really think gardner or melky is fine in center, there is more than enough offense on this team when healthy. I think if the yankees are going to trade one of their many corner outfields (i’m hearing the braves are interseted in nady or swisher), let’s get a couple of position player prospects, hopefully one or two pan out as our veterans’ contracts expire.
if they can trade Matsui for Bedard…the Manny signing will happen soon after
Memo: In Re Joba
Cashman,
Please make up your mind on Joba. Either put him in the bullpen as your 8th inning guy and heir to Rivera or trade him for Josh Hamilton now. Otherwise, you will ruin his arm, even though you say you won’t.
Thanks,
Thoughtful fan!
joeman
December 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
it’s going to happen…Yankees move a OF or two & sign Manny for two years
—
Joe, I agree that this would be the final piece. If we trade for Bedard it would be tough to sign Manny but if we did watch out.
If the Dodgers sign Dunn then Manny wil really only have 1 place to go and thats to us. I don’t see him going to Baltimore or Washington.
Lets find a way to make it happen.
Imagine adding Bedard to the rotation and Manny to the lineup?
Wow.
joeman
December 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
if they can trade Matsui for Bedard…the Manny signing will happen soon after
—
I can feel the momentum heading that way much like I did with Tex in the final days.
Wheres Heyman on this?
Joba will be the hair apparant to Rivera. You are only delaying the inevitable and risk losing him to injury by using him as a starter.
He will be our Goose Gossage for the next 10 yrs
Joba will be the hair apparant to Rivera. You are only delaying the inevitable and risk losing him to injury by using him as a starter.
He will be our Goose Gossage for the next 10 yrs
—–
I agree. Trade for Bedard or sign Pettite and make Hughes the 5 with Joba in pen.
I would give Sea any OF/DH + a SP(higher rookie level)they want for Bedard …that clears the way for Manny,now that would upset baseball
Yankeeray,
I heard that Matsui to the Mariners rumor. I wouldnt mind taking a shot at Beddard and his attitude. If they turn that down, I would look into taking Ichiro instead with a couple extra pieces.
I would be satisfied standing pat with Melky and Gardner in center though. Now that we signed Mark. As some have stated already, we dont need an all star at every possition. If one lands on our lap, fine. If not, this team assembled is enough to bring us 27.
Joba needs to be the 8th inning guy…. Mo can’t last forever
Bedard is the prototypical ‘can’t play in NY’ guy. I’d rather give the money to pettitte if you don’t think Aceves is up to par, though I think he is the most likely to slot in the rotation, he can throw a bunch of innings without a problem.
This Yankee team is ready to compete, just need to dig up a utility guy. In all likelihood Posada and Matsui will return to near career norm performance, which will be all of the offense the team will need, especially considering Tex is playing 1st now.
Zorn and YankeeRay we have a consensus!
The argument for keeping Joba in the rotation was that finding a number one type starter is very hard…I bought that argument as long as they didn’t have an ace….but now they do
Doesn’t it make more sense to strengthen the team, by having a sick bullpen…than foolishly sticking to the plan and trying to develop him as a starter?
As a result, my thought is…if you (Cashman) are so stubborn…please trade him now and get his full worth in a trade
Blasphemous I know….
As of right now Bedard is hurt.
He had a frayed labrum repaired and a cyst removed from his shoulder in September.
Labrum injuries are a death knell for pitchers:
“if pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they’d be destroyed.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/
Chris from NJ
December 29th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Bedard is the prototypical ‘can’t play in NY’ guy.
——
The only problem with Bedard over Pettite is that Andy is a one year answer and Bedard is not which would clog a spot in the rotation for one of the youngsters.
But if you move Joba to pen then Hughes has his spot and the other youngsters compete with Hughes next year.
Good problems to have.
Please sign Manny.
A few things:
1. The Yankees have said Joba is a starter. Period.
2. Eric Bedard has an injured hip that is believed to be degenerative and a bad shoulder. Trading for him involves a lot of risk.
3. The Yankees never had any interest in Manny and do not have any interest now. Manny made little sense before and makes even less sense now that they have Teixeira. You can have only nine players in the lineup. Not 15.
4. It’s spelled Pujols. He’s one of the best players in the game. He plays 1B and doesn’t throw well. He’s not playing CF.
Why would you want a potential Ace pitching the 8th inning? The Man has more than 2 plus pitches. I cant see the logic in that. Melancon could be that heir to Rivera. As far as the injury concern. He could get hurt being a reliever just as much as a starter. Again, Aces are meant to start not relieve. Rivera didnt cut it as a starter and thats why he went to the pen. Joba hasnt given us any reason to demote him to the 8th inning spot. Its hard enough to find a talent like Joba in the league as a starter and if you do it costs 161 mil to sign em. We have an incredible talent pitching for us and some want to put him in the pen.
Trade Joba? I’m speechless.
Wow whats all this Joba to the bullpen talk all of a sudden? Is today free crack day at Duane Reade?
1. The Yankees have said Joba is a starter. Period.
Anyone with two eyes can see that’s a mistake…given his demeanor, arm torque, and injury history…is Cashman a cyclops?
I’d argue that Pujols is THE best player in the game, not just one of the best.
Tom
December 29th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
As of right now Bedard is hurt.
He had a frayed labrum repaired and a cyst removed from his shoulder in September.
Labrum injuries are a death knell for pitchers:
“if pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they’d be destroyed.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/
—-
Good find Tom. If this is true then if you make the trade and he doesn’t work out then we wasted the value on matsui. I want to trade Matsui for nothing to clear salary for Manny so if Bedard didn’t work out then its a risk I would take. But that would mean no Andy and 2 youngsters in rotation.
Either sign Pettite or trade for Bedard but you must sign Manny to put our bats over the top.
Still too much uncertainty with Posada,Cano,Swisher,CF.
Tex replacing Abreu and Giambi is not enough IMO.
Since all of baseball already hates us lets give them a real reason to hate us and put Manny in 5 spot behind Arod.
Imagine the string of booing in Fenway when Tex,Arod and Manny come up in a row.
How cool would that be. Priceless.
I also think the Yankees should sign Joe Crede and make Arod the utility infielder….
Peter,
The Pujol-s to center field was a joke. Just reading some people suggesting Teix go to the outfield or Pujol-s being a dh. Should have put a happy face on it. Its just funny how we’re talking about signing him when he could very well break down in a couple years. Im very satisfied with the team we have. All i care about is 09 and #27. Could care less about whos a free agent in 2011.
(happy face insurted here)
Why would you want a potential Ace pitching the 8th inning? The Man has more than 2 plus pitches. I cant see the logic in that. Melancon could be that heir to Rivera. As far as the injury concern. He could get hurt being a reliever just as much as a starter. Again, Aces are meant to start not relieve. Rivera didnt cut it as a starter and thats why he went to the pen. Joba hasnt given us any reason to demote him to the 8th inning spot. Its hard enough to find a talent like Joba in the league as a starter and if you do it costs 161 mil to sign em. We have an incredible talent pitching for us and some want to put him in the pen.
——————
That argument made a lot more sense before we had CC, Wang, and AJ at the front of the rotation…
Please don’t clutter the board with the very old Joba to the bullpen argument. It is more played out than the annual Favre retirement story.
like 75% of SP in baseball Joba is a 6 inning SP…Would like to see him the closer of the future,either way the man is a stud when he pitches
“That argument made a lot more sense before we had CC, Wang, and AJ at the front of the rotation…”
So because we have 3 potential #1′s, we should not accept a potential 4th? Who knows if they all pitch to their potential this year. All i know if you have a stud like Joba who could shut down a team for 6 or 7 innings. Id take that than just 1 inning. Give me 4 Aces over 3 all day long. Hell if we can find a 5th id be even happier.
Please don’t clutter the board with the very old Joba to the bullpen argument. It is more played out than the annual Favre retirement story.
_______________
A- It’s a new story because of the impact of signing two front end pitchers..
B- who asked you?
I’ll I have to say about Joba being a starter is…. Remember the game in Fenway this year.
“A- It’s a new story because of the impact of signing two front end pitchers..
B- who asked you? ”
C – Its not a new story.
D – I asked him.
A – No, there are five slots in a rotation…not two.
B – Why the attitude? Calm down.
Re Manny, I wouldn’t say the Yankees never had any interest. I think they thought they needed another bat and when they stopped and considered it, they were much better off biting the bullet and going for Tex instead. Better defense, better in the clubhouse, better in the lineup, younger. That being said, there is absolutely no chance they get Manny and that is absolutely fine.
Katie…
How many times did he do that last year?
answer…twice (vs Bos and Pit)
I’m not downplaying his upside…I think he has the potential to be an incredible pitcher
I am concerned about his potential to get injured…He made 10 starts and got tendinitis!
Katie
December 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I’ll I have to say about Joba being a starter is…. Remember the game in Fenway this year.
that was a very well pitched game for sure
D – I asked him.
Did you really? or are you just saying that
one think I have learned thru the years never say never when the Yankees could be involved in any big moves…Manny wouldn’t surprise me at all
Yanks in 2009,
He made 10 starts and got tendinitis after he was taken from the bullpen. That messes with your arm a little.
This spring he goes in KNOWING he will be a starter and can better prepare himself.
I agree with the injury risk however, he has not let us down even when injured.
This spring he goes in KNOWING he will be a starter and can better prepare himself.
_____
I hope he and Hughes are lifting weights, soft tossing, and drinking milk every day!
How about we give Joba a full season as a starter before we jump to any judgements about his health or ability? He was a starter throughout college and for the majority of his single season in the minors.
Yanks in 2009,
Yes, I agree. Haha, I hope they both prove everyone wrong and turn out to be great pitchers for this team.
Joba has to be given every opportunity to succeed as a starter before you entertain the idea of moving him back to the pen.
Thats the way it works.
“I hope he and Hughes are lifting weights, soft tossing, and drinking milk every day!”
I say bring back the clubhouse junk food and everything else will fall in place. Dont quote me on it but Iv heard lack of sugar/sugar rush causes injuries.
Dear Cashman,
Might want to check this out.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3798491
Sincerely,
Brandon
Joba has to be given every opportunity to succeed as a starter before you entertain the idea of moving him back to the pen.
Thats the way it works.
_______
You say that so confidently…
Has that been proven by Jason Isringhausen and Kerry Wood?
Especially this kid…
Gomez, 28, is a fast outfielder who was Rookie of the Year in 1997 and hit .394 with 51 runs scored and 41 RBIs in 66 games in the most recent National Series tournament. He has a .331 career average with Industriales.
Especially this kid…
Gomez, 28, is a fast outfielder who was Rookie of the Year in 1997 and hit .394 with 51 runs scored and 41 RBIs in 66 games in the most recent National Series tournament. He has a .331 career average with Industriales.
________
That’s because they didnt have El Duque as a tour guide…
There is no Joba to the bullpen “story”.
Every single time Cashman and Girardi have been quoted this off-season, they have said he is in the starting rotation.
Cashman reiterated it at the CC/AJ Press Conference.
The only “story” is somebody in a blog trying to make it a story.
In the reality world of the Yankees, Joba is in the rotation with Wang, AJ and CC.
Do we have a pitcher who isn’t an injury risk?
Girardi will move up on that list when Lou lou lamoriello names himself coach again.
Yadel Marti & Yasser Gomez
Mana from heaven. Bye Andy..
Nick – Burnett
posada said joba is a reliever…he wont hold up as a starter…
if i remember correctly most posters said teixeira posters were crazy to think we’d get him…..joba in the pen baby!
lights out!
Yadel Narti = Mike Lamb
The sad part is that Lawrence Frank is by far the worst coach on that list, yet he will probably outlast all of them, including Coughlin.
Yes, Posada did say that, but notice that he hasn’t been dumb enough to say it since:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....otostream/
This is Yasser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZFN8xyowg
And Giambi called moving Joba to the rotation ” genius move of the century”.
Here are some ideas for the *5th Starter Spot*
*Josh Fogg* 1 year contract for the *Dragon Slayer*, I want to see how he does against the leagues best 5th starters (TOR:Marcum, SOB:Wakefield, BAL:Albers?, TB: Sonnanstine)
+Cheap Labor
*Kei Igawa* our prized Minor League pitcher of the year, why not see what he can do?
*Ian Kennedy* wanna see how fast ones trade stock can fall, think of the Dow in the last few months
i think bedard would b great for us if hes helathy and im all to it with manny i think this lineup would b amazin batting rodriguez third manny behind him and texeira are offense would b crazyyy and now we have the pitchin u imagine cc burnett wang bedard and joba wowwwwwww hand us the rings in spring training
Joba wants to start, the organization wants him to start, i think that’s where we’re at with him right now, the guy is a stud, let’s see if he can stay healthy this year.
The Yankees won’t sign Manny unless he wants to play for 1 year 18 mil.
I’m curious to see if they trade one of our corner OF guys, it’s going to be tough considering the abundant talent available in the FA market. I think Swisher has the biggest market, because he can play 1st, he’s young, and his contract isn’t terrible. I think it’s worth holding onto Nady just to get draft picks next season when he declines arbitration. And I think Matsui will be very productive at the plate this year, I wouldn’t be so quick to give him away.
Unless Posada has GM of the Yankees title in front of his name it doesnt matter. He also said 3 years ago that Hughes had the best stuff in spring training of all the pitchers in the staff and still went down to AA. Joba is a starter, lets move on. I was enjoying the Pujols a Yankee in 2011 a bit more.
Assuming we dont pick up a center fielder,who do we start? Melky(better defensively and avg)or Gardner(more speed and a threat on the basis)? My choice would be Melk.
Michael Kei (Igawa):
Marcum is WAY better than a number 5 starter. In terms of talent, he was TOR’s #3, and now he will be the #2. The guy can flat out pitch.
Brandon,nice information. How would these two enter the league–if they indeed are able to do so? Don’t they have to go through the same selection process as a dfa player, or are they up for grabs? . . . If they were available and so on.
The only way that Chamberlain moves to the bullpen is if coaches, trainers and doctors determine that his shoulder/arm will not hold up to the rigors of starting every 5th day. That hasn’t come close to being determined by anyone except 2/3rds of the media and 2/3rds of the fans.
Of course, these are generally the same people that are trying to boo Alex Rodriguez out of town, did boo Chad Pennington out of town, and now want him back because he’s the greatest quarterback in history, figuring that they were correct and the Jets were wrong, again.
About CF and melky vs. gardner. I would like to see Brett get a shot before they go with Melky. Melky had his shot and Brett didn’t really get a chance. He was starting to heat up in September (although most of you say that doesn’t count) I would like to see what he can do.
bdog375
December 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Michael Kei (Igawa):
Marcum is WAY better than a number 5 starter. In terms of talent, he was TOR’s #3, and now he will be the #2. The guy can flat out pitch.
————————————————————
He may be the #2 or #3 pitcher for Toronto, in 2010….if he’s healthy by then.
I havent posted in a while and i had to respond to some of these interesting comments over the last week or so:
I never liked mangini and I am so glad that the jets lost just so i never have to see his mug again. Everyone talked about how smart the guy was but it was never apparent to me.
Dave Eiland declaring that burnett is better than wang made him look extremely ignorant. In every possible category wang has done better than burnett including health and heart. Wang is twice the pitcher burnett will ever be and if eiland cant see that now he will very shortly. All ppl seem to see is burnett’s raw stuff and dont seem to notice his 100 walks per 200 innings, horrendous health record and the very low opinion of him from his former teammates and coaches.
Brad penny was not even a mediocre pitcher his last couple of years in the nl. The yanks should hit well against the sox on those days penny pitches.
Just because Ball DLi does not have a mitochondrial disease does not negate the fact that he is NEVER EVER healthy for an entire season. I feel bad for the guy but the yanks signing him to a contract would be a HUGE mistake.
Manny getting less than 20 mil next year would be ironic, hillarious and hopefully somewhat humbling for the always arrogant ManRam.
I really hope the yanks trade melky and a prospect for cameron and let the brewers pay some of camerons salary. It would be only about 4 or 5 mil for an upgrade in defense and offense. The lineup would look more well-rounded with a little speed and power at the bottom of the lineup with a decent average to boot. Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Tex, Arod, Matsui, Posada, Cano, Swisher, Cameron. Every spot in the lineup has power and every spot is capable of batting at the least 275. There is speed at the top and the bottom – 4/9 spots. Finally that lineup is left, right, switch, right, left, switch, left, switch, right.
Cabrera us useless and as i said over and over again last year – never going to be good enough to start in center for the yankees for any significant amount of time despite the many, many ppl last year who argued against me I was right last year and next year, i will be correct as well. Gardner is more useful than melky but only because he is an excellent defensive replacement and a perfect pinch runner for matsui or posada in the late innings. Those types of players can win a series for a team see redsox 2004.
Abreu not getting a decent contract would be a travesty – he has been superb offensively for the wide majority of his career while being healthy throughout. Guys like pavano and burnett who cant stay healthy for ten minutes get four and five year deals but abreu who NEVER stays on the dl for any legnth of time cant get multiple years – ridiculous.
Cuban right-hander Yadel Marti and outfielder Yasser Gomez(LOST) …rumor has it the Cashman had something to do with this
Talking about two ships passing in the night….trouble is, they’re the HMS Titanic and the HMS Lusitania.
“…rumor has it the Cashman had something to do with this”
link
Interested in knowing. Question to all Jets fans. Do you want Favre back next year or would you rather have another qb(possibly wet behind the ears)behind center?
The whole Joba issue is one of life’s little IQ tests.
Sorry…here’s the link to the prior post.
Talking about two ships passing in the night….trouble is, they’re the HMS Titanic and the HMS Lusitania
“Dodgers, Mets Talking Andruw Jones Trade
By Tim Dierkes [December 29 at 3:50pm CST]
According to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Dodgers and Mets have discussed an Andruw Jones trade. Jones is still owed $22.1MM, and the Dodgers are “highly motivated” to move him. Olney says it’s unlikely the Dodgers would have interest in Luis Castillo, however. If the Mets wouldn’t be sending a bad contract back, I’d imagine they’d want the Dodgers to pay approximately $20MM. Olney says the Mets would use Jones in right field – Ryan Church’s position this year”.
Joe Girardi has been the coach of the Yankees for 14 months now. Only four coaches have been at their respective jobs longer: Tom Coughlin (Giants since 2004), Lawrence Frank (Nets since 2004), Tom Renney (Rangers, 2004) and Brent Sutter (Devils, July 2007).
………………………………………
Correction:
Joe Girardi is the manager but does have 5 coaches on his staff and even more in spring training.
Joeman,
Wow I got a good laugh out of this. The funniest part of it all was that it sounds just like something Cashman would do.
by the way – i mentioned that lineup because it is 3 lefties, 3 righties and 3 switch hitters, 4 hitters with speed, 2 with a ton of power, 3 with a lot of power and the rest with some power. Not to mention, everyone is capable of a decent batting average. Now that is what i call balance.
Hopefully Dick Jauron will be next. I was at the Bills-Pats game yesterday and the way he was outcoached by Belichek was pathetic. 3 straight 7-9 seasons doesnt cut it. 0-6 in a division without Tom Brady and the terrible clock management/play calling (see loss to the Jets a few weeks back) is bad too.
Dodgers and Mets talking about an Andru Jones trade, per Olney
I’m on my iPhone so I haven’t read if brandon did this already but jobs back in the ‘pen is S T U P I D. You have a guy who in 2 years could move CC Sabathia out of the ace role and you want to waste him for only 90 ip a year? 200>90 all day every day. He is the cheap ace we have wanted for a decade, now he is relegated to the pen? Really? He is a starter, and please no Bedard
if the Dodgers do add one or two hitters not name Manny what are the guesses where he’ll end up
“if the Dodgers do add one or two hitters not name Manny what are the guesses where he’ll end up”
Japan!
There is an article on a spanish language site about Marte. I wanted to read it so I babel fished it and here’s what it said:
“left-handed reliever Damaso Marte is not the face of plots by the Licey Tigers, as did Impactodeportivo.com. do Monday.
Marte, who came to the Tigers since the Stars arrived with many Oriental spirit, but apparently cooled.
There is speculation that the “stick” that gave Rafael Furcal last year still rumbles in the head.
Afraid?.”
I cannot make heads or tails out of this?
Manny will be a Yankee!
Manny possibilities: Nats, O’s.
Maybe something about Marte throwing at Frucal last year then facing him in the winter leagues this year?
There’s a reason we overpaid for Teixeria by $10 million more than the Sox bid…. Boras knew if we signed Tex, that would effectively kill his Manny market. So if we were going to get Tex, Boras wanted to make sure he tacked on some extra cash.
It’s inevitable that Manny will become a Met. This is shaping up to be exactly like the Johan Santana sweepstakes last year. Omar badly wants the guy, he isin’t sure about the money and ownership is lukewarm on it. Then January comes and goes, and he is still out there and he can basically name his price. Way too tempting for Omar to pass up. He’ll get a 2 yr deal from the Mets.
Distd,
Yeah sadly I can see that happening too. Where else is Manny going to go? I really don’t think a bad team is going to take a chance on him quitting. The Dodgers are now talking to Abreu/Dunn, so it looks like their interest is diminishing.
E-Rod
December 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Distd,
Yeah sadly I can see that happening too. Where else is Manny going to go?
———
We need to get him first like we did with Tex. If he goes to Mets they will own NY not the Yanks. If we get him we are the champs for next 2-3 yrs.
He would rather be a yankee and play Boston 19 times though it is a AL east year for the Mets and he would play at Boston 3 games. How interesting.
Soul,
You don’t really believe that right?
YankeeRay
December 29th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
E-Rod
December 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Distd,
Yeah sadly I can see that happening too. Where else is Manny going to go?
————-
We need to get him first like we did with Tex. If he goes to Mets they will own NY not the Yanks. If we get him we are the champs for next 2-3 yrs.
He would rather be a yankee and play Boston 19 times though it is a AL east year for the Mets and he would play at Boston 3 games. How interesting.
—–
Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Manny, Delgado are better than any group of 5 we could throw out there without Manny on Yanks.
But Damon,Jeter,Tex,Arod,Manny would work for me though their 5 is still strong.
Tom, if you really need to know you can post a link to the Spanish version — there are several of us here who can translate and would probably be glad to do so if it’s not too long.
Ray – True. If the Mets get Manny, suddenly all the attention and the spotlight shifts to them and they will re-take the city. Kind of neutralizes the PR aspect of our signings especially considering they would have stolen Manny while we gave 8 years to Tex.
You have come this far, time to finish the deal and get Manny.
JETS 09 wishlist………… Matt Cassel and Bill Cowher !!!!!!!!
Manny on the Mets would basically make us 2nd fiddle in this town. Manny is a character unlike Tex so he will naturally garner more headlines and attention from the media.
Manny on the Mets would be all comedy. God I wish the ownership there would unwise up.
The same people who are saying that Manny will never come here are the same ones who said we had no shot of signing Teix for 8 years and would not increase our payroll by that much.
Bottom line, nobody knows anything. You would think Cashman’s history has taught people a thing or two about assumptions. He is a sly fox, he will do things that nobody expects.
South Coast
December 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Ray – True. If the Mets get Manny, suddenly all the attention and the spotlight shifts to them and they will re-take the city. Kind of neutralizes the PR aspect of our signings especially considering they would have stolen Manny while we gave 8 years to Tex.
You have come this far, time to finish the deal and get Manny.
——-
Absolutely.
They were closer to playoffs than we were and if they add K Rod, Putz, Manny and another top starter how good will they be?
We added CC,AJ and Tex but we lost Mussina (20 wins), Pettite (14 wins), Giambi (30/100). Abreu (20/100) so who will have improved more?
Oh yeah I forgot, we added Swisher (.219) and Matsui, Posada, Cano will all have much better years.
I think adding Manny makes it right for us because I don’t think we have a sure lock team to win title right now.
YankeeRay
The Wilpons have steadfastly refused to consider Manny, in spite of Omar’s strong representations to them supporting signing Manny. It is not going to happen.
Manny is going back to LA
Mets are not going into the season with a Murphy/Tatis platoon in left field. They will get Manny eventually and steal the spotlight away from us, sometime in late January.
“The same people who are saying that Manny will never come here are the same ones who said we had no shot of signing Teix for 8 years and would not increase our payroll by that much.
Bottom line, nobody knows anything. You would think Cashman’s history has taught people a thing or two about assumptions. He is a sly fox, he will do things that nobody expects.”
I think its safe to say there is no way we sign Manny unless Matsui is moved first. Matsui would already be a challenge to move for Cashman. If you add the desperation of needing to move a big contract after just signing Manny it puts him in a bad position he would probably never put himself into willingly. So unless Matsui leaves first I wouldnt expect any swooping.
Cobra – Absolutely. We fans have none of the inside info that Cash does, nor do we have any idea of the money he has available from the Steinbrenners. Coming up with what we think he will or should do is fun to think of in mid-winter, but nothing more.
Think of it this way – if someone like Pete – a professional sportswriter/analyst, with access to umpteen better contacts into the Yankees and their thought processes than we can have – was taken by surprise by the Tex signing, then what hope do any of us have to do any better?
5 Years ago, the only one concerned about “the Mets stealing the spotlight” was George Steinbrenner. Who gives a rat’s azz whether the Mets “steals the spotlight” or not? Are you that insecure that you need to see that?
December 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
“The same people who are saying that Manny will never come here are the same ones who said we had no shot of signing Teix for 8 years and would not increase our payroll by that much.
Bottom line, nobody knows anything. You would think Cashman’s history has taught people a thing or two about assumptions. He is a sly fox, he will do things that nobody expects.”
I think its safe to say there is no way we sign Manny unless Matsui is moved first. Matsui would already be a challenge to move for Cashman. If you add the desperation of needing to move a big contract after just signing Manny it puts him in a bad position he would probably never put himself into willingly. So unless Matsui leaves first I wouldnt expect any swooping.
—–
I absoultely agree with this. So for us to get Manny we would need to have an agreement in place with Boras pending us moving Matsui and Nady so we have leverage in those trades.
This is not unrealistic to think this could be going on as Manny wants us first IMO.
I can’t believe people are actually arguing that Manny to the Mets would make the Yanks’ second fiddle.
Are you kidding me?
Outside of the brief period in the 80s, the Mets have always been and will always be second fiddle to the Yanks.
The Yanks are not signing Manny Ramirez. It’s amazing how ridiculous people sound.
Viper-
So true! Must be all the facebook newbies on the blog.
LOL Manny to the Mets makes the Yankees second fiddle? In what universe? Getting Santana didn’t make this any more of a Met town…….not that it matters. What matters is what happens on the field and the Yankees have an excellent club, period.
the worst thing the yankees can do know is spend all this money going into the new stadium & stop short of getting another pitcher to eat innings.
hughes,kennedy,acevez,coke,etc should be used as debth & to spot joba.
you can never have too much pitching.
boston has becket,dice-k,lester,wakefield,penny then they use the kids as debth.if joba was able to throw 200 innings it might be different.
we probably would survive as is but what happens if joba & burnett get hurt????then it’s cc & wang.
pettitte complaining about 10 million & pennt getting 5 million,wakefield is getting 3 or 4 million & is a better pitcher.
ARod and Madonna will hold the spotlight for the foreseeable future.
“pettitte complaining about 10 million & pennt getting 5 million,wakefield is getting 3 or 4 million & is a better pitcher.”
Wow
check out what this loon says:
“Hughes, Kennedy Headed For Scranton?”
lvironpigs.wordpress.com
Viper
December 29th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I can’t believe people are actually arguing that Manny to the Mets would make the Yanks’ second fiddle.
Are you kidding me?
——
Vipe, I don’t care about second fiddle but say what you will, if the Mets were to get Manny and sign another top of the rotation guy like Lowe, they will be a better team than the Yanks as is.
If we get Manny then we hit with anyone. I would also still sign Pettite to save the young arms as suggested by Bru.I could live with a weaker bat in CF as the defense would neutralize that weak bat.
I don’t like the idea of Matsui behind Arod against lefties and he will be gone in a year, then what? Holliday?
Manny makes this team right in many ways the least not being his demeanor if Girardi coule deal with him.
He would take the pressure off of Arod and maybe he would teach him how to win.
“Mets are not going into the season with a Murphy/Tatis platoon in left field.”
The Mets don’t want the drama that Manny brings. I’d look for them to sign Abreu before they go anywhere near the nightmare that is Manny Ramirez.
YankeeRay, the Mets would not be better and Lowe is not a top of the rotation pitcher.
We can’t be worried everytime a good team makes a good move; we have to have faith in the Yankees. They’ve made some great moves this off-season – there’s no reason not to be positive.
Also, word is that the Wilpons have put the kibosh on Manny. When the owner speaks, the GM has to listen. I have no clue where Manny is going – it’s amazing that he is in this situation, but it’s of his own making.
Betsy
December 29th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
YankeeRay, the Mets would not be better and Lowe is not a top of the rotation pitcher
—–
Betsy, he woudl be a good 2 or 3 for them though and who would be better would be debatable. Do you think Damon,Jeter,tex,Arod,Matsui are better than Reyes,Beltran,Wright,Manny,Delgado?
They would have more speed and a very comparble bull pen. We may have a better starting 5 but Johan,Lowe wouldn’t be too bad along with Maine,Pelfrey etc..
Tough call Bets, but give us Manny and we are better hands down.
True Joba can be a top of the line starter. But at this point in time we dont really need that. What we need is an heir to mariano. We saw how lights out Joba is from the pen. Everytime he pitches over 150 innings something happens to his arm. See his stats from Nebraska. See Yankees circa 2007. I think with CC on board for the next 3 – 7 yrs, Burnett on board for 5 yrs, we really need a top of line closer and Joba could be that guy!
Make fun all you want – But nothing can get me down today. My Dolphins killed two birds with one stone yesterday! I couldnt be happier, and even if we lose next weekend, i consider it icing on the cake to even be playing next weekend. Sorry MANGENIUS! Chad Pennington came to town and brought us some new hope for the new year!
Looks like Dodgers Dunn With Manny?
http://fantasysportsexperience.....manny.html
Buster Onley is an idiot with his old going no where rumor with andrew jones….guess he suffering from gammons syndrome
If the Mets get Manny and Lowe, they ARE better than us.
Wright-Beltran-Manny in the lineup
Ace Johan Santana, Perez, Lowe, Pelfrey
With Putz-KRod closing things out
That is a VERY good team, favorite in the NL for sure.
When Manny has no home and has to accept a 1 or 2 yr deal, the Wilpons will ok the move.
offer manny 30mil for 2 years.take it or leave it.if he takes it put him RF,he can cover RF better than LF
then trade Nady
Even after all these moves, we are still only marginally better than the Sox and Rays (providing they don’t lose a step).
Boston already had a dominant 1-2-3 with Beckett-Lester-Matsuzaka. Tampa has Kazmir-Shields-Garza with David Price being added to an already stacked rotation.
If Ortiz and Lowell bounce back, Boston still has an excellent lineup. Tampa’s lineup will create havoic with their speed and defense like the Angels do.
Don’t kid yourselves, this season is going to be a war. If we keep sleepwalking through the early months, it will come back to bite us like it did this year. The 3 best teams in baseball are in the AL East with the 3 best pitching staffs.
mr. torre i agree 100%
Jalcon
December 29th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Even after all these moves, we are still only marginally better than the Sox and Rays (providing they don’t lose a step).
Boston already had a dominant 1-2-3 with Beckett-Lester-Matsuzaka. Tampa has Kazmir-Shields-Garza with David Price being added to an already stacked rotation.
If Ortiz and Lowell bounce back, Boston still has an excellent lineup. Tampa’s lineup will create havoic with their speed and defense like the Angels do.
Don’t kid yourselves, this season is going to be a war. If we keep sleepwalking through the early months, it will come back to bite us like it did this year. The 3 best teams in baseball are in the AL East with the 3 best pitching staffs.
—–
Thats why throwing the haymaker with Manny puts us over the top
Y’all realize we needed to make all these big FA signings just to get back to a level playing field with our competition in the division right?
Ortiz is finished…and Lowell had one fluke year. i wouldnt worry about boston in 09
what is this about? Derek moving to LA!?
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....s-angeles/
Yankeeray – I agree. That’s why those saying it would be ‘overkill’ don’t know what they are talking about. We are still not a lock for anything with this team. We are on the plateau as BOS/TB. Signing Manny would make us the favorites, unequivocally. We can create some separation with that move rather than be bunched up together like we are now.
“Do you think Damon,Jeter,tex,Arod,Matsui are better than Reyes,Beltran,Wright,Manny,Delgado?”
Totally irrelevant. The Mets don’t play in the AL east.
Y’all realize we needed to make all these big FA signings just to get back to a level playing field with our competition in the division right?
________________
Which is why we need our youth to give us an edge….
Joba, Hughes, our CF duo, and a few suprise names in the bullpen…would help immensely
“Don’t kid yourselves, this season is going to be a war. If we keep sleepwalking through the early months, it will come back to bite us like it did this year. The 3 best teams in baseball are in the AL East with the 3 best pitching staffs.”
Exactly, although the skeptic in me doesn’t see TB repeating last year’s results. I like our chances, but it’s not going to be a cake walk.
Good for Jeter… makes the decision not to re-sign him after 2010 easier if he already has plans to go to LA. They can slide Frucal to 2nd or just trade him. He could also go to the Angels if he chooses, they have no SS.
Told ya Jeter is looking to leave the Yankees. He will follow Joe to the Dodgers. TRAITOR!
Who cares if the Mets look better with Manny on paper. They arent in our division let alone the a.l.. They would have to make it to the Series to worry about it. If it were to happen, id take my chances on the team we have.
Michelle,
Congrats on the fins. It brought a smile to my face having the Pats watch the playoffs from home. Good luck.
MANNING MVP!!
Isn’t it a litle early to worry about Jeter leaving?
Maybe CC will opt out too and him and Jeter can go West together in 2010 lol
What makes one believe that Jeter would leave?
Mike- I am kidding.
Tom
December 29th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
“Do you think Damon,Jeter,tex,Arod,Matsui are better than Reyes,Beltran,Wright,Manny,Delgado?”
Totally irrelevant. The Mets don’t play in the AL east.
—–
Tom, the discussion was about if Manny went to the Mets and who would have a better team.
As far as the AL east goes, we will compete right now but Manny gives us the edge there and then eventually against the NL winner.
Matsui and Nady have no long term future with us so move them now and get Manny for 2 plus an option.
I still subscribe to the fact that we have a real 3 yr window to win but that can be expanded with our youngsters stepping up.
But lets take care of business now and Manny puts us over the top.
Please don’t give me any more payroll crap as we can handle it and everyone in baseball already hates us. Lets give them something to really hate us for and thats winning. If we lose with the team we have now we will be laughed at by everyone. He who last laughs lasts ?
Plus the thought of the booing when Tex,Arod and Manny come to the plate in boston is worth my MLB package price alone.
…
So instead of living in Tampa in the winter, he will live in LA during the winter months.
How is this news?
The Mets have major issues.
Their starting pitching after Johan Santana is problematic. Maines finished poorly, with arm issues, likely from overuse. Mike Pelfrey pitched 200 last season, much more than he had in any previous year, putting him at risk for arm troubles this coming season. This was acknowledged by Charlie Manuel, who admitted that players had to be “sacrificed” in their pennant push. After those three, there’s nobody but minor league talent (Jon Neise). That’s why they desperately need starters, and, more specifically, starters who can give them innings to spare their brand new bullpen from overuse (Is K-Rod, and his wacky, maximum-effort delivery, an injury-risk?).
Who are the available starters left? Derek Lowe appears to be the best of the bunch; but he will cost (Boras client, and Scott knows teams’ situations). But, Lowe has many suitors. Who then? Jon Garland? Good ole Ollie Perez? Ben Sheets, who’s any one pitch away from TJ surgery?
I woulnd’t call their lineup a sure thing, either. They need help at several positions – catcher, 2B, corner OF. Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Castillo…This is the same group of guys that blew-up two Septembers in a row.
I think the current World Series Champions, the Phillies, are likely the best team in that division.
Good point F7 TD. Unless he’s going to play for the dodgers and have a home in florida for spring training games?? He’s on his way out i tell ya.
Today went from getting Pujols to play first in 2011 and tex the outfield
to
The stepchild is better than us with Manny and will hog all the media attention.
to
Jeter is leaving us.
Niiiicce.
Cant wait to see what tomorrow holds.
there is no need to offer Manny 2 years with an option.
Manny has no market…we could probaly get vhim on a 1yr deal when he gets desperate
Since Manny is not getting any offers. I say 2 years 40 mil gets it done and he gets to be a FA again after next season its a win-win. The Yanks get 2 years of an inspired Manny(inspired to get his last deal) and Manny gets to play at home against the Sux 20 times a year.
Al – That sounds great to you and me, but will it sound good to Manny? Or, will he be upset that the Yankees didn’t give him his 4 year-100M deal, and decide to go on a sitdown strike/temper tantrum, like he’s famous for, midway through the season to force the issue? If you can somehow get Manny to play all-out for two full seasons, you’re a good man.
Finally, Manny will settle for an averge of $22mil.
That saves the pride of Boras and Manny as it will be better than the $20mil options they got out of.
People are underestimating Boras.
He will find market for Manny and get him a deal better than what Dodgers offered.
Manny doesn’t fit. It’s easy to say “trade Matsui and Nady” but it’s more complicated than that. Who would trade for Matsui? Seattle? why, because they are owned by a japanese businessman? The Mariners are rebuilding. They are not going to trade for a 35 year old DH with 2 bad knees.
Where’s the so called market for Nady? Why would a team trade for him when Abreu, Dunn, Burrell, and Bradley are could be had for just money?
Then there’s Manny. Would he really be an upgrade over both Matsui and Nady? He’ll be 37 next season. He’s also one year removed from having a .881 OPS. There’s no chance he’ll replicate his Dodgers numbers and if (when) age catches up to him and he becomes a player who hits for an OPS in the high .800s-he’s not worth it.
We can probably get Manny on a weekly retainer.
1 yr 2 yrs doesn’t really matter. If Manny comes to NY and dogs it he will never see another contract. He will have his legacy behind him in his home town. Other than last year he has been pretty good considering Boston put him on wauvers a few years ago.
If he dogs it once Giradi sits him and is respected for doing so.
If he plays spirited we get one of the great RH hitters of all time behind Arod.
Worth the risk? I’d take the chance.
Tom
December 29th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Manny doesn’t fit. It’s easy to say “trade Matsui and Nady” but it’s more complicated than that. Who would trade for Matsui? Seattle? why, because they are owned by a japanese businessman? The Mariners are rebuilding. They are not going to trade for a 35 year old DH with 2 bad knees.
Where’s the so called market for Nady? Why would a team trade for him when Abreu, Dunn, Burrell, and Bradley are could be had for just money?
—–
Cmon Tom, he is an absolute fit. As a DH he has at least 2-3 yrs left. he hits both righties and lefties and Matsui is suspect against lefties.
There is a market for both Nady and matsui out there though we may not get much in return which is ok since it would be more of a salary dunp on our part.
Nady will be easier to move and his salary is smaller than what the free agents you mentioned are looking for.
Seattle for Matsui is possible as today there were rumors of Bedard for Matsui.
screw manny ill keep matsui and nady. nobody needs that cancer.
BEDARD FOR MATSUI! now that is funny!
“I used to sleep at the foot of Old Glory
And awake in the dawn’s early light
But much to my surprise
When I opened my eyes
I was a victim of the great compromise”
I’ll be singing that tune every day if Manny were to be a Yankee.
Y’s Guy
December 29th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
BEDARD FOR MATSUI! now that is funny!
————–
On Fanball today:
Matsui for Bedard? Monday 12/29, 1:53 PM CT
There is a rumor that the Yankees are talking to the Mariners about a trade involving pitcher Erik Bedard for outfielder Hideki Matsui, according to BleedingBlueandTeal.com. Peter Gammons originally reported the news on ESPN radio.
Our View: The Mariners covet a productive outfielder with power after losing Raul Ibanez, and Matsui would fill their need. But losing Bedard would be tough as he is the ace of the Mariners’ pitching staff, assuming he bounces back healthy. If he lands with the Yankees, the club would have four ace hurlers in their rotation with CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Chien-Ming Wang and Erik Bedard.
Keep Matsui, trade Nady(because hes easier to move) sign Manny and your good. Manny couldn’t dog it on a 1 or 2 yr deal if he did that he would never see another contract. I also think playing for the division crown against Boston would fire him up.
its still funny and defending it is even funnier.
Al from BK
December 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Keep Matsui, trade Nady(because hes easier to move) sign Manny and your good. Manny couldn’t dog it on a 1 or 2 yr deal if he did that he would never see another contract. I also think playing for the division crown against Boston would fire him up.
——
You need to move Matsui too as he won’t sit on bench and Manny needs to be DH with Damon,Swish,Melk/Gard in OF.
A low level prospect for Matsui in a salary dump and sign Pettite and then we are good.
Bedard for Mastui? eh, I couls take it or leave it. Upside Bedard pitches how he did in 07 with the O’s/. Downside he is injured or un-inspired like he was this year. If we get Manny then I can stand losing Matsui but if we are not in on Manny keep Hideki and hold onto our chips.
Tom: A Prine Fan, good to find a fellow traveler in an unexpected place! I may be singing “Christmas in Prison” if we fall down that rat hole.
maybe matsui plus a pitcher plus $7.5M
Yankee-ray- You’re right. Manny means no Matsui. I would move him for Bedard but only if we could get Manny.
Al from BK
December 29th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Yankee-ray- You’re right. Manny means no Matsui. I would move him for Bedard but only if we could get Manny.
——-
Al, I’d move him for you if we could get Manny. Matsui being moved is a salary dump but if we got back Bedard that woudl be fine or sign Andy.
I need to talk to Cash about this already, makes too much sense.
Maybe we can trade Matsui to Toronto for Halladay. They can’t resign him and they need Matsui to attract that sweet, sweet Japan revenue. ‘Cos the loonie is tanking and all.
Nick in SF in Charlotte
December 29th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Maybe we can trade Matsui to Toronto for Halladay. They can’t resign him and they need Matsui to attract that sweet, sweet Japan revenue. ‘Cos the loonie is tanking and all.
——-
Only if they threw in Wells
Halladay
Now thats the guy I’ve wanted for years sadly Ricciardi would never mess up that badly.
Cashman should go to the store and buy some extra strength Excedrin – then he should return home, turn off his blackberry and proceed to pound his head against the wall many times over.
This will give the same desired effect as signing Manny – they’ll both give you one giant headache.
Japan Revenue is a fickle mistress.
The Pirates have it right. They signed those two Indian pitchers. India Revenue is were its at.
The Pirates are well-positioned to reap the benefits when “Slumlord Millionaire” is crowned the Greatest Film of All Time… um, whenever that happens.
If Matsui went to Toronto at least his wife could watch him play from the hotel in CF.
DT
December 29th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Cashman should go to the store and buy some extra strength Excedrin – then he should return home, turn off his blackberry and proceed to pound his head against the wall many times over.
This will give the same desired effect as signing Manny – they’ll both give you one giant headache.
——
He will need 2 bottles, one for Manny and the other for the post world series celebration party.
Tying it all together with a great big bow.
I think they need to get a veteran to pitch innings. I have some concern about Joba and his health as a starter. His velocity seemed down when he returned from injury. Was that lack of conditioning, shoulder trouble or holding back? With Hughes injury past, I can’t see them investing all the money this off-season and not have a 4th pitcher who can throw 160 or more innings.
“He will need 2 bottles, one for Manny and the other for the post world series celebration party.”
Bronx Jeers
December 29th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
If Matsui went to Toronto at least his wife could watch him play from the hotel in CF.
——
Maybe she’d be the one to be watched up there
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Red Sox tried to get Hanley Ramirez. AJax and Hughes get it done?
Buchholz and Ellsbury?! Thats it? Id have done that in a heart beat!
Yeh seems like they were just a part of the deal the article makes it seem like they wanted more to actually pull the trigger.
Sure Hanley Ramirez would be great but he doesn’t have a spot here and Ajax and Hughes in the same deal is too painful.
Chris V.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Red Sox tried to get Hanley Ramirez. AJax and Hughes get it done?
——-
Wow, they are desperate to make a splash. I live in South Florida and Hanley is the real deal and there has been talk about moving him to OF here.
I wouldn’t trade him for Ellsbury and Bucholtz as they have enough young pitching and they just traded for Maybrin last year. Nice try by the Sox though.
Hughes and Ajax wouldn’t be enough. We would have to throw in a RP and probably Montero or Brackman as they need a catcher and could always use more pitching. That said, if they are listening on Hanley I would inquire.
The sox are staggered right now. Signing Manny would send them to the canvas lol.
CF now. SS in two years
add romine to the deal
“Red Sox tried to get Hanley Ramirez. AJax and Hughes get it done?”
doesnt matter if it can get it done, we dont need ramirez, we need bench people or a #4 starter
“Sure Hanley Ramirez would be great but he doesn’t have a spot here and Ajax and Hughes in the same deal is too painful.”
it would cost more than AJax and Hughes for Hanley… maybe alot more
but if he played CF on the other hand…….. lol
What? Get Ramirez or get bench people that makes less than no sense. Pettite can still be signed as a 4th starter
haha yeh he would have to play CF
Matsui for Bedard and then signing Manny would create a beast team.
line-up
Damon-LF
Jeter-SS
Tex-1B
A-Rod-3B
Manny-DH
Cano-2B
Nady-RF
Posada-C
Gardner-CF
Bench-Swisher
Rotation
CC
Wang
Burnett
Bedard
Joba
Wow.
my point was hanley isnt much of a need at this point, there are other holes (tiny but still there) that need to be fixed, sure we can always sign pettite but at this point its not a sure thing because both sides are being stubborn, and i dont want to trade Hughes, trade Kennedy if you want, i dont care about him lol
Chris V.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
haha yeh he would have to play CF
——
Chris, they have been talking about Hanley in the OF here for over a year now. He is some athlete and a great hitter.
If we trade Nady for bench depth and Matsui for salary relief then all we need to do is sign Manny and Pettite and we are DONE DONE DONE.
Al,
That team is orgasmic. Damn
Hanley Ramirez… probably Joba and Ajax and possibly Kennedy/Melancon/Betances/MacAllister.
Bedard had a 3.67 ERA last year when he was healthy… it’s not like he went through a Brad Penny-type season.
He would be a classic low risk, limitless reward guy. A bonafied lefty ace that is AL East proven if he pans out, and if he doesn’t then he is a FA at the end of the year anyway and you can cut bait.
Bedard’s mystery hip injury and his craptastic attitude are not anything I’d want on the team. Bedard is another Pavano waiting to happen.
on a side note:
http://baseball.gearlive.com/t.....-baseball/
The sad part is that it would not have shocked me if Theo had re-acquired Hanley for Ellsbury/Buchholz. Theo just always seems to find a way to make these smart, out of the box type trades and able to manipulate GMs.
Think of it this way, if we had Hanley and they had Joba/Hughes/or Kennedy and Ajax/Melancon/Betances/MacAllister and you knew they wanted Hanley (future superstar) – who’d you ask for… Hughes or Joba?
exactly.
Bedard had surgury to repair a Frayed Labrum!
NO thanks.
We all knew that Theo would not just sit back and watch us snatch up all these FAs while he did nothing.
Theo is a brilliant GM, he is going to search every avenue for help on the trade market. He has the prospects, creativity, and desperation to get something good. Don’t be shocked if he picks up some stud young bat to add to the lineup.
“Bedard had a 3.67 ERA last year when he was healthy… it’s not like he went through a Brad Penny-type season.
He would be a classic low risk, limitless reward guy. A bonafied lefty ace that is AL East proven if he pans out, and if he doesn’t then he is a FA at the end of the year anyway and you can cut bait.”
This is why I am tempted by Bedard. Sure he has had a bad attitude but he has never been on a championship caliber team. Classic low-risk guy and if anyone saw him in 07 you should know how good Bedard could be especially as a number 4 starter.
What the Yanks need is someone who will take the mound every fifth day like Pettitte.
We have no idea if Bedard would even be healthy enough to take the mound for 20-25 starts next season.
They already have a high risk / high reward guy in Burnett. Now they need someone who is as close to a sure bet as it gets to throw 200 IP.
A business associate in Seattle sent me an email today asking if there had been any chatter in NY about Ichiro coming to the Yankees. He heard the tail end of a radio conversation of Ichiro to NYY for Matsui/Swisher/Aceves being discussed.
I’m guessing sports talk radio callers in Seattle are as creative as their counterparts in NY.
Mangini (Girardi) is a smart young guy who probably knows football (baseball). But his tough-guy act with the players wore thin; he alienated the media and then he lost the fans by pretending everything was OK when it wasn’t.
I agree. Get Pettitte.
Jets need Cowher and to get rid of Favre.
Al from BK
agree 1000%
“Al from BK
agree 1000%”
Any Jets fan who watched this season knows that is what needs to happen. Cowher is a great leader and Favre was the biggest reason for the downturn.
Frank & Renney are on notice.
The Jets aren’t getting rid of Favre, even though he cost us a playoff berth. They are more interested in selling jerseys and creating a “buzz” to justify the PSLs. The product on the field is an afterthought. Woody is a disgrace.
Mangini had a better record with the Jets than Belichick had with the Browns. It’s way too early to write him off as a coach, but maybe a change was needed.