The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Stop the madness, please

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 02, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Things that drive me crazy:

The Joba debate: Why does this still continue in some quarters? He had a 2.76 ERA in 12 starts last season. He struck out 74 batters in 60 innings. He’s a really, really good starter and he’s 23. Do the math: It’s better to have a great pitcher throw 200 innings instead of 70.

The idea that Joba should go back to the bullpen because the Yankees signed CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett is inane. The best, most efficient way to win baseball games is to have as many games as possible started by good pitchers. The eighth inning is not as important as innings one through six.

Greed: Those of you who insist the Yankees should sign Manny Ramirez need to get a grip. The offense is just fine. The Yankees need young, versatile, cost-effective position players who can catch the ball and will buy into Joe Girardi’s vision. Not old, expensive, one-dimensional selfish DH types. The idea should be to pay players for what they will do for you, not for what they did for their former team.

Over-thinking: People have told me Orlando Hudson could play center. Robinson Cano should play left. Derek Jeter can play center. Use Hideki Matsui at first base. This is a major league baseball team, not the second game of a American Legion doubleheader. Good teams don’t experiment like that unless there is no other choice. The Yankees always have another choice.

Hating on young players: To read some comments on the blog, people think Cano, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy has bad seasons on purpose. Mickey Mantle hit .267 in his first 341 ABs and struck out 74 times. Tom Glavine was 9-21, 4.76 in the first two seasons. How about waiting a bit before deciding somebody isn’t any good?

Suspending reality: A rumor flew around this week that the Yankees might have interest in Erik Bedard. Never mind that he has a bad shoulder, a bad hip and a bad personality. He’s a perfect No. 5 starter! At some point, some things don’t make sense no matter how much you try.

and finally …

Leave Hideki Matsui alone: Now that the Yankees have an extra player, some folks want Hideki shipped out of town for most anything. Lest you forget, Godzilla has a .371 career OBP and has driven in 103+ plus runs every year he was healthy. He’s also 34, not 44. When A-Rod had his monster 2007, you know who hit behind him most days? Matsui, that’s who.





337 Responses to “Stop the madness, please”

  1. aado January 2nd, 2009 at 11:04 pm


  2. Dan January 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Couldn’t agree more. The Yankees do need to get another starter that could post 200 innings, but Bedard is certainly not the answer.

    I can’t believe people still think Joba should be in the pen, but when you come across people that feel that way, there is no point talking sense into them.

  3. Wolf In Pinstripes January 2nd, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Amen, Pete. Your post sums up my feeling to a T. Frankly, if I replied to most of the stuff I’ve seen here recently, I’d probably get myself banned from the site.

  4. Bob January 2nd, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Thanks – it’s about time folks begin to realize these truths about the Yanks!

  5. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Can I get an “Amen”?

  6. Ethan Gooderum January 2nd, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    Hey Peter, I love your blog and your writing.

    Anyway, I couldn’t agree with you more on all of these, ESPECIALLY the Joba one. The idea of moving Joba to the pen is preposterous. That is like moving Wang, or Burnett, or Sabathia even back there, doesn’t make any sense, does it?

  7. Baja January 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Gotta disagree about Joba. People with far more knowledge than I have repeatedly pointed out that his motion is so violent as to guarantee serious injury at some point. Let him be the next Mariano, and the Yankees play 7 inning games for the next 10 years. Make him a full season starter and he’ll be on the DL every season for 5 years until he is forced to retire.

    Really hope to be in the wrong here.

  8. Gary January 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Well said, Pete, well said. Manny Ramirez is exactly what the Yankees do not need, Mark Teixeira or not.

    Joba is infinitely more valuable in the rotation. I think people forget that you have to get to the end of the game before a setup man becomes a factor.

    I still beleive that Phil Hughes will be a big time pitcher.

    As usual, great stuff.

  9. Stephen January 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Save Matsui!

    Major League Baseball would be a far better pastime if it had more Matsuis and less Mannys.

  10. NDYANKEE January 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    i agree with everything you said, but I notice a little hypocrisy. Melky Cabrera is the same age as Ian Kennedy and younger than Cano, yet you hated on him relentlessly last season and said that he “is what he is.”

  11. YankeeJosh January 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    Agreed completely Pete. I still have high hopes for Hughes and wouldn’t mind having him at the back of the rotation if Pettitte doesn’t re-sign.

  12. tim boat January 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    if Cano bombs again this year – Brian Roberts for 2nd base and leadoff in 2010.

  13. Betsy January 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    I posted this in the prior thread:

    I really enjoyed tonight’s Hot Stove show – there was a lot of good content. The guys summarized the free agent situation very nicely, I thought, and segued into a piece on the best free agent signings ever (Reggie, Andre Dawson, Greg Maddux). Heyman was on, then a round table discussion on “how do players know when it’s time to retire”. I thought the ex-players really gave pretty good insight – Larkin said that when he was older, he didn’t have 100% focus on the game at all times. He did when he was in the field or at bat, but when he was younger, that focus was there all the time. I liked the preview of the AL West – they spent a couple of minutes on each team. Near the end, Leiter explained why he thought AJ will have a major impact this year. It was mostly nothing we haven’t heard before, but I liked Al’s comment in particular about some pitchers who are ultra-talented, but lacking a strong record…..they look at their record (12, 11, 14, wins) and they have to ask themselves “what is this?” Some guys find themselves a little later than others….Larkin agreed with Al that it came down to AJ not giving max-effort all the time. He remembered seeing AJ as a Marlin looking up to check how fast the FB he just threw was clocked at and then trying to throw one even harder………Really good stuff tonight.

  14. Betsy January 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    This time, I completely agree with you, Pete – nothing else to say.

  15. Duke January 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    When healthy, Matsui is probably the most productive hitter in the Yankee lineup. Numbers don’t lie. Heck, being a full time DH might actually help ease the pain in the knees.

  16. House January 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    I’m so happy that people can see into the future for the next 5 years and know that Joba is always going to be hurt. Newsflash, he’ll have the same violent windup and delivery in the bullpen except he won’t be getting regular rest and will be throwing even harder than he would in the rotation. He get hurt the next two years and can’t stay healthy? Fine, move him to the bullpen, but until that happens you leave him where he maximizes his best talent and that is starting.

  17. YankeeJosh January 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    OT: If Utah beats Alabama and goes to 13-0, how are they not National Champions? They’re the only undefeated team, they beat Michigan (granted in a down year but that’s a big 10 team), beat Oregon State, beat Alabama, and beat TCU. What other sport can a team go undefeated and still not be champion. USC, Oklahoma and, Florida are all great teams but they lost and Utah didn’t, so Utah is deserving of the title imo.

  18. K-ace January 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    I agree with your Post Pete except one point.

    Don’t call us fans greedy, If certain fans want Manny it’s not because of greed, He can certainly help the team as he is an RBI machine and one of the greatest right handed hitters of this generation.

    Personally, I’ve always disliked Manny but don’t call the fans public greedy for wanting to field a better team. Yanks might have 0 interest in him, but fans will always dream and provide their opinion.

    Other then that I tip my hat off to you and salute you on an Excellent Blog.

  19. Smarter than you January 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Props to Pete, but isn’t a team confined to signing three Type A free agents?

  20. Joey H January 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    You mispelled insane Pete.

  21. RyanCC January 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    I am not one to say Joba should be move to the pen, but with the recent additions I can see why some would want him to be the next Mo. Many people in the baseball world think he will be an injury concern as a starter. We saw that last season. If he has a chance of not getting hurt in the pen, it may be wise to make that move. Joba in the pen is worth more then Joba on the DL. I am not saying they need to, I am just saying that it may actually be a better idea.

    The Yankees do not need Manny. The Yankees need more vesitile players. They need youth. After the Tex signing, Manny should never be brought up again.

    Young players usually suck at first. Hating on Hughes, Kennedy, and Cano is stupid. They were not highly praised for nothing, they have the talent. Look at the guy they passed on last offseason, Johan Santana. That guy quite bad in his first season. There is usually an adjustment period for young kids. Hughes, Kennedy, and Cano are still infants in the baseball world, give them their chance.

    The only way I give up the quite leader in Matsui is if the get something good in return. The fact that he is getting paid too much and coming off knee surgeries means he has no chance of getting a good return. The only way he leaves is if the Yankees don’t re-sign him next offseason. He is still a very good hitter. If healthy, I think he will make a good DH.

  22. RyanCC January 2nd, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    Joey H, inane is a word.

  23. Joey H January 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Yeah I know but I just thought he was in a fit of rage over the pain in the neck debates that a typo occurred. We are all human

  24. Jesse K January 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    As the baseball news gets slower in the winter times, I take to reading more comments than I do in the summer. And a lot of times the ideas in the comments seem pretty crazy to me. I was happy to see this post from Pete, not just to quell some of those recurring ideas, but also because I enjoy his comments on the team.

    Hating on young players seems particularly silly to me. I didn’t have the highest hopes going into last season after yet another ALDS loss. One of the things that I enjoyed most throughout the winter and season was following some of the young names coming up.

    I enjoy reading about the new names that come through the minors and enjoy it even more when those young players start to become recognized names in the mainstream. I would rather root for prospects over almost any established star. Especially when the youngest kids are able to use the internet to connect to us fans better (Hughes!).

    Long winded thank you concluded.

  25. Rich James January 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    I’m looking at what matsui “can” do for this team…not..what he “has” done! And the bottom line is he seems to have fragile knees because of the mileage put on his body from playing everyday for like 10 years!!

    Is it worth going through one more season of hoping a tire doesn’t blow or get something for him while the Yankees still can?!

    And by the way…is there a better big game hitter in the game right this second than Manny Ramirez?

  26. EricNS January 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Well said – some people are even saying trade Tex when Pujols becomes available – just resign Pettitte and that is enough!!!

  27. EricNS January 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    By the way on the MLB Network Harold Reynolds said put Joba in the pen.

  28. Mark January 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    i LOVE this blog but….pete is the same guy that insisted the yanks weren’t going to land Tex. ’nuff said.

  29. pat January 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Andrew Jones will not be a Dodger in 2009. The Players Association has agreed to let the Dodgers defer as much as $12 million dollars of Andrew Jones’ contract. In return, Jones will get a fresh start somewhere new either in a trade or he will be granted free agency.;fext=.jsp

  30. Aaron(the better Aaron) January 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    thank you pete, i’ve been trying to tell these clowns for months now all what you’ve said.. and they dont wanna listen.. thank yo

  31. Peter Abraham January 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 pm


    Does that mean I should never post again? I’m not sure what your point is.

  32. jennifer January 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Here come the lets sign Andruw Jones posts.

    cue in 3-2-1

  33. jennifer January 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    Mark- why are you reading than?

  34. Jack January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Joba is injury prone.. his motion is violent. He got shoulder pain TWICE last year. He was injured in college. He does not have the ideal pitcher’s frame. He is a big, husky guy with a maximum effort delivery.

    Why risk him becoming the next Jaret Wright and blowing out his shoulder when he can be the next Goose Gossage?

  35. Frontier January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Posada and Johnny Damon said he should be in the pen… that is more than enough evidence for me to know he should be in the pen.

  36. jennifer January 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    jack- I guess Roger Clemens didn’t have a pitchers frame either. How’d that work out for him?

  37. Drew January 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Whenever someone uses the words ” ’nuff said,” it’s a clear indication that he or she has no ability to support a view with facts and good argument.

  38. CW January 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Pete, your blog is great, but I was expecting you to kindly ask us to vacate your lawn at the end of this post.

  39. RhapsodyInBlue January 3rd, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Pete, Too much common sense for one column.

  40. Rich James January 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Not sure what Mark’s point is but maybe he just thinks u could be wrong about matsui and/or Manny b/c u were wrong on your guess about Tex

  41. Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter's Gangster) January 3rd, 2009 at 12:13 am

    What you wrote about Erik Bedard and Joba are the truest things ever written.

  42. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 am

    I just think it’s insane to think the Yankees are not going to get Manny for sure. It is a possibility. Another point I’d like to make is about Manny Ramirez.

    We have all heard of all the bad things about Manny form his days in Boston. Nobody doubts the fact that he is a bad teammate.

    However, the bottom line is he has helped Boston win two World Series Championships. If we could all just realize both of these facts, then we just need to ask ourselves…

    Would having Manny Ramirez in the lineup help the Yankees inch closer to a WS title?

  43. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:23 am

    If New York is all about the bottom line, then making a run for Manny is not as dumb of an idea as you may think.

  44. Caps January 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 am

    NY is not about the bottom line.. its about selling PSLs and nothing else

  45. Gus G. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:28 am

    People still want Joba in the pen? Really? Is it still 2007 or something?

  46. Steven January 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Thank you Pete.

  47. SamVa January 3rd, 2009 at 12:30 am

    I love how people say they don’t like what Pete writes… that makes no sense what-so-ever..
    if you don’t like Pete’s stuff then go make your own blog.
    I personally immensely enjoy Pete’s blog. That’s why I read it.. It bewilders me that someone would continue to read a blog with the intention of putting the author down.. It’s not your job to find Pete’s mistakes, many times he has more of a lead to a story then any other blog/news source does. If he makes a mistake people try to tear him apart.. I mean honestly.. NO ONE is right all of the time!
    All said, great post Pete.. I hope in 2009 people start to realize that this blog is special and important.. Criticizing a reader is one thing.. Many stupid things get said on here.. But the guy who works for us? C’mon guys!

  48. Ty January 3rd, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Manny didn’t lead the Sox to two WS titles, their pitching/bullpen and defense did. Guys like Schilling, Beckett, Pedro, Matsuzaka, Lester, Lowe had a bit more to do with those titles than Manny did. Sox lost the ALDS this season not because they didn’t have Manny, but because they failed to shut down the Rays offense.

  49. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 am

    “Pete, your blog is great, but I was expecting you to kindly ask us to vacate your lawn at the end of this post.”

    I don’t mind kids on my lawn, but NO DOGS!

  50. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 12:37 am

    “Manny didn’t lead the Sox to two WS titles, their pitching/bullpen and defense did. Guys like Schilling, Beckett, Pedro, Matsuzaka, Lester, Lowe had a bit more to do with those titles than Manny did. Sox lost the ALDS this season not because they didn’t have Manny, but because they failed to shut down the Rays offense.”

    Lester, Lowe, Pedro, Beckett, and Matsuzka had more to do with Boston winning two WS than Manny even though Manny played on both title teams and they only played on one? nfw

  51. Stew January 3rd, 2009 at 12:37 am

    I know an Asian girl that dated Bedard for awhile. Said he was extremely introverted. Eventually it just wasn’t worth it for her. Not trying to disparage him but more point out that he would be the ultimate worst example for a guy being able to handle the pressures of NYC. I think it’s pretty well chronicled how much of a red ass he is as well. Which reminds any smart Yankee fan of the trials & tribulations of Randy Johnson. Let’s not even mention the myriad of injuries. Yeah…no thanks!

    I love Matsui but yeah there’s injury risks. However, what value can we honestly expect in return for him that would outweigh keeping him in the lineup? I just don’t see it.

    Pete runs the best Yankees blog, hands down. My first stop for Yankee news. However, Pete does love to scold us sometimes. I quite enjoy those moments actually.

    Can we at least give Joba a couple of seasons to see if he’s injury prone? Partly he was injured more in college because he was overweight. He has lost lbs. Guys go to the bullpen because they don’t have the repertoire to be a starter.

    I don’t foresee Andy suddenly waking up in the middle of the night and going “gee yeah maybe NOW I should accept a contract that I’ve been saying no to for 2 months.” Hughes 5th starter. However I do think Yanks will have a new CF before the start of the season. Just like a won a bet with my friend that CC and Tex would sign (made last year).

  52. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Notice I said he *helped*, didn’t lead them to a WS title…

  53. swisher4cf January 3rd, 2009 at 12:41 am

    matsui will give us FAR more production than anything u get back in a trade for him

  54. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Eh. Pete is a very good journalist and very reachable but because he can get caught up and busy because he is a beat writer he doesn’t get to update his blog too much. So I am going to give it to River Ave Blues.

  55. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Manny was a huge part of Boston winning those two titles.

    In 2004 he hit .350/.423/.500/.923

    In 2007 he hit .348/.508/.652/1.160

    Now honestly, don’t you think he’d be a useful addition the Yankee lineup?????

  56. gnarly January 3rd, 2009 at 12:46 am

    good call pete, the manny people are outta control here. i know its the yankees and anything is possible, but manny in pinstripes is about as likely as bernie being our starting CF next year.

    i think the people who are pushing matsui out the door are crazy. he is our #5 hitter and as a f/t DH he is going to have a godzilla year. there is nobody else on the team that can fill that spot like hideki can and if he leaves there will be a huge hole in the lineup. i know its a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately society, but why go looking for a guy to replace matsui when we have the real matsui right here. im telling you, the people who want hideki out are going to have thier words thrown back in thier faces this season while matsui has his finest year at the plate.

  57. AROD fan January 3rd, 2009 at 12:48 am


    Leave Joba alone
    hating on young players
    leave Hideki Matsui alone

    Greed: What is the point of being a Yankee fan if you can’t dream about the “old, expensive, one-dimensional selfish DH types” switching over to your side?

    Over-thinking/suspending reality: How many days until pitchers and catchers? What else are we supposed to do?

    So… Trade a-jax etc for ichiro. sign manny.

  58. Nick in SF January 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 am

    “he is a beat writer he doesn’t get to update his blog too much.”

    Crack is whack.

  59. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 am

    It’s not about being out of control. Just look at his postseason career stats.

    How many current Yankees are consistently dominant hitters in the playoffs?

  60. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 am

    What are you saying Nick? Look at this blog which is fine in its own right compared to RAB in terms of updates and activeness.

  61. retire #51 January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 am

    Thank you Pete. finally somebody speaks the truth

  62. Stew January 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 am

    Manny has added value to a team like the Dodgers because their attendance increased by ~5,000 per game once they made the trade. On the other hand, the Yanks already are near max capacity day after day. Along with gobs of Yes money. It’s not the same impact from a financial perspective. Yanks need an athletic CF like Upton. If you could describe the epitome of what the Yanks need it would be him. We’re not getting him but is there a poor man’s version out there somewhere?

    Please don’t compare Cano to Melky in terms of being patient. Cano has already shown the ability to hit .340 with a .890 OPS. Melky’s BEST has been 8 homers, .280 avg, and barely over a .700 OPS. It’s not the same conversation. And they also don’t compare to young pitching, which typically takes longer than hitters to adjust from AAA to the bigs.

  63. ham_fighters January 3rd, 2009 at 12:52 am

    i like rab alot which is why i was so dissappointed in thier post yesterday. to dismiss the fact that melky/gardner are in the lineup b/c johnny cant play CF made the entire post pointless. i expected much better from them.

  64. Buddy Biancalana January 3rd, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Joey H should be banned from the blog for dumbest comment on January 3rd.

  65. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 12:53 am

    God forbid we have to deal with Manny Ramirez in our lineup…


  66. Nick in SF January 3rd, 2009 at 12:54 am

    What I’m saying is that Pete updates this blog all the time.

  67. matman January 3rd, 2009 at 12:54 am

    I’m a big believer in Matsui. His OBP and power are usually solidly above average. But there’s no need to mention how he batted behind arod in 2007. ARod has had plenty of great seasons without Matsui hitting behind him. That point of yours was irrelevant and doesn’t help the pro-Matsui argument.

  68. i am the walrus January 3rd, 2009 at 12:58 am

    Matsui may not be a guarantee to be productive in the last year of his contract, however, he worked hard to return during the season last year suffering through a lot of rehab. He had knee surgery on one knee the year prior, and now had it on the other knee. The broken wrist was a freak accident, yet again he worked hard to come back as soon as possible.

    I would think that Matsui is doing all he can to be game ready for Spring Training. He will see less time in the field, so the chances are decent that he will remain healthy this season and put up decent numbers.

    A trade would be selling low because he isn’t a cheap contract, he had a tough year last season, and his contract is ending. All that means you get a dime to dollar in value for trade. It makes no sense.

    Earlier a poster wrote that all these people talk about Joba having a violent delivery. Where did he hear that? Almost all the commentators I’ve heard have not said that. They may harp on the number of pitches thrown, but most have said he puts a lot more effort in the fastballs when he comes out of the pen.

    The pitcher that almost every commentator HAS talked about the violent delivery is K-Rod. Looking at the difference in their pitching styles, I would have a lot more faith in Joba being able to keep it up than K-Rod. (Doesn’t it make you wonder why the Angels didn’t even try to sign him again?)

  69. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Ham-I can’t say I agree with everything they say because I don’t but it makes for good argument and conversation. And I should get banned for a comment I made? Considering some of the things I see on here are laughable, I won’t even argue. But this blog is good and PeteAbe has gotten back to all of my emails. I don’t have a negative thing to say about the man.
    Nick- Well that isn’t what you said. All I am saying is, (in response to another comment) was that this blog is great but as far as more frequent updates RAB is the best (in my opinion which I am entitled to) hands down.

  70. Peter Abraham January 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 am


    According to the software, I’ve updated this blog 4,396 times in the last 24 months and two days. That’s an average of six times a day. If you find another Yankees blog that does that, by all means go there.

  71. Rafael O. January 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

    At this point Matsui must make it really hard for Cashman to find a trade partner. The market is flush with outfielders at the moment. Best bet would be to hold onto Godzilla and enjoy watching his play…

    Nady is obviously the most tradeable, although he seems to be improving each season at the plate.

    Too many injuries happen during the season, it would probably be smart to not sacrifice the “surpuls” of outfielders we have.

    Somebody please remind Cashman about our bullpen!!!

  72. SamVa January 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 am

    I guess you can’t argue.. Statistics are everything…

  73. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 am

    You don’t have to read between the lines to see that I am a firm believer in this blog. What I said was that because you aren’t just a “fan blogger” so to speak that you are actually out there writing articles and traveling, covering the team on a hands on basis (winter meetings and what have you), you don’t give as frequent updates as RAB mostly because you only report what you personally found out or have confirmed.

  74. Stew January 3rd, 2009 at 1:06 am

    I’m still waiting for Tim Lincecum and his violent delivery to break down. Let me know when that happens. Oh yeah, keep me informed on how Mark Prior is doing and his picture perfect delivery.

  75. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Um, Stew. wasn’t the point of his “violent delivery” that he doesn’t break down. There was a video out not to long ago depicting that his mechanics are fundamentally sound.

  76. Nick in SF January 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 am

    To clarify, what I meant was that, because crack excites the brain and distorts one’s perception of time, it might *seem* like Pete isn’t updating his blog frequently when, in fact, he is.

  77. lil' m January 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Witness over here!!! Pete, the voice of sanity . . . THANK YOU. The Joba-to-the-pen lunacy: Make it stop . . . pleeeease . . .

  78. Stew January 3rd, 2009 at 1:12 am

    I’m disputing Joba is an injury risk because of a supposed violent delivery. Lincecum was supposed to be destined for a closer role for that very fact but pitched 227 innings last year.

    About Prior: Early in his career Prior’s smooth, seemingly effortless delivery was widely regarded as mechanically efficient and sound. Prior’s former personal pitching coach Tom House labeled the Cubs’ right-hander’s mechanics as “perfect.” However, after Prior suffered a series of debilitating arm injuries, many experts have re-examined the quality of his delivery.

    What I’m saying is that there is no exact science to why some pitchers break down and others don’t. Even from the experts. Just like Dave Wells who ate and drank everything but could pitch a double header if he had to.

  79. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Nick, what I am saying is, while Pete gives us updates like, reader’s vacations among other things that you can see in archives, which are great, RAB is more about baseball statistics and discussions.

  80. matman January 3rd, 2009 at 1:14 am

    “The idea should be to pay players for what they will do for you, not for what they did for their former team.”

    I understand what you are saying here, and I agree that it is ideal to have lots of players on reasonable contracts, or lots of homegrown players who are cheap but can become decent players. And it is very inefficient to build a team primarily on the free agent market. However, on some level it seems that you are saying that the idea is to never sign a free agent. Every single free agent is paid based on what they have done previously. Obviously their is a certain expectation of what they will do going forward that plays into as well, but most of the money is based on what they already have accomplished. But ignoring the free agent market completely is definitely a foolish thing to do.

  81. YankeeRay January 3rd, 2009 at 1:19 am

    Mark me down again as one who believes that Manny won’t be a yankee but should.
    I have come to realize that he will get more money somewhere else but I truly believe that he would rather play with the yankees than with anyone else.
    I believe that we would be better off trading Matsui and Nady since they are only here for 1 more year and that manny would give us a better chance of winning a WS than the other 2.
    We could still continue to build with youth and would next year with Ajax and our younger pitchers.
    Matsui and Nady don’t do anything for our youth movement short or long term.

    It is what it is.


  82. matman January 3rd, 2009 at 1:20 am

    And btw, this blog as well as river ave. are both great yankee blogs. There’s really no need to fuss about which one is better. They are both high quality.

  83. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:22 am

    matman. Read what I am writing. I am not trying to draw business over there (for reasons I won’t specify at this time) or anything of that sort. I just disagreed with what somebody said, while giving Pete credit for his work. So … Yeah..

  84. Peter Abraham January 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 am


    Make a deal with you: For every post RAB has made over 4,396 since Jan. 1, 2007, I’ll give you $1. For every one under that, you give me $1. Deal?

  85. CasanovaWong January 3rd, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Quality over quantity

  86. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 am

    I may not agree with Pete all the time (see Rodriguez, Alex) but without a doubt, he is the hardest working blogger in America.

  87. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 1:43 am

    Not sure if this has been said, ’cause it’s kind of obvious but I can’t read every post, but with re: RAB, they do have three bloggers.

  88. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 am

    Pete. For someone I respected as a writer, I am insulted by your unprofessional behavior. Besides, that would be hard to follow through with since they stared posting Feb. 20, 2007. They are only 311 posts short of you given the month and 20 day difference. Which ironically is 6 posts per day if you do the math.

  89. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 1:48 am

    How is Pete being unprofessional? It’s amazing that he takes the time to respond to you.

  90. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 1:51 am

    Sorry but I am not exactly flattered that Pete is up at 145 staring an argument with a nobody (to him) over something that isn’t worth arguing over. I stated my opinion(which I am entitled to) while patronizing his blog and he goes off being nasty and trying to make deals with me.

  91. Buddy Biancalana January 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 am


    I’ll take that bet, you in?

  92. Smarter than you January 3rd, 2009 at 2:06 am

    Would you rather that he ignored you, Joey?

  93. Joey H January 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Smarter than you:
    That would be more professional than him going off like a big baby basically saying ” Well,if you don’t like my blog get lost!!”
    Or trying to make weird deals with me.

  94. Anthony M January 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Is it crazy to think the Yankees platoon the entire outfield?

    Damon in Left, Swisher in Center, Nady in right on most days
    Swisher in Left, Gardner in Center, Nady in right, Damon DH

  95. VO January 3rd, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Yo guys chill Joey is just giving his opinnion and you are all jumping on him giving him crap, what did he say wrong? he liked a diffrent site? BIG DEAL! i love RAB its much bettter than this site but im not guna sit here and tell all of you off

  96. VO January 3rd, 2009 at 2:16 am

    and personally i think if he would have ignroed joeys comment is much better then trying to shoo him away, just because he has his own view, thts just unnecessary and un profesional

  97. declineoptions07 January 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 am

    Peter – no disrespect meant towards your prior work, but this is by far, in my opinion, your best piece of work.

  98. Mrs. Kekich January 3rd, 2009 at 3:06 am

    Matsui gets a slide as a playoff flop – in his last 17 playoff games, starting with Game 4 of 2004, “Godzilla” has two RBIs.

  99. E-Man January 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 am

    “The Joba debate: Why does still continue in some quarters?”

    Ask Jorge Posada but what does he know right?

    “The best, most efficient way to win baseball games is to have as many games as possible started by good pitchers. The eighth inning is not as important as innings one through six.”

    Yeah.. Go tell that to the NY Mets. Cmon, every inning is important. Being able to turn a 9 inning game into a 6-7 innings in the age of 6 inning pitchers is a huge advantage. I’ll support him being a starter but if the opportunity presents itself meaning if we miraclously find 2 other pitchers that step it up along with Wang, CC, and AJ.. It would be insane not to throw him in there.

    “Tom Glavine was 9-21, 4.76 in the first two seasons. How about waiting a bit before deciding somebody isn’t any good?”

    What did Kei Igawa ever do to you?

    He pitches great in the minors just like your buddy Ian does.

  100. E-Man January 3rd, 2009 at 3:34 am

    “Matsui gets a slide as a playoff flop – in his last 17 playoff games, starting with Game 4 of 2004, “Godzilla” has two RBIs.”

    He also has the most runs scored out of the entire team during that time period.. So it’s not like he hasn’t been contributing. That just goes to show that the ENTIRE team has played like garbage in the postseason the past few times.

  101. Joey January 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 am

    Agree 1,000% on Matsui. If they trade any of their OFs it should be Nady. His value is at its highest point, doesn’t make untradeable money, and is the worst amongst Damon, Matsui, and Swisher.

  102. mark January 3rd, 2009 at 4:01 am

    TOUCHE PETE! way to properly and nicely express everything i’ve wanted to say to the bonehead analysts out there in the media. esp the joba point. they talked about it on mlb hot stove the other day and al leiter goes ‘ok why dont u just go put jake peavy and cc sabathia in the 8th inning cuz theyre really good too’ and harold reynolds goes ‘joba has done nothing to prove he can be a good starter’. i was ready to slap him in the face. uhm he’s like 24 and got an injury. come on harold! i was mad when you got fired off baseball tonight, but now im starting to suspect why. him and steve phillips can fight for the worst baseball analysts ever award.

  103. rover January 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 am

    Umm, I like the idea of a painfree Matsui. There is also a mindset to Dhing. Matsui seems to be able to do it. Not everyone can. Giambi for one.
    If the knees are truly repaired and he is painfree he could just be an amazing DH. He has the mentality to do whatever, anything the team needs. Odds are he has three maybe more really decent years left with the stick. Time will tell and I have a belief in his mentality. Foolish maybe but then Maybe not so.

  104. pat January 3rd, 2009 at 8:01 am

    I love the interaction that takes place on this blog with the commenters and the info Pete shares- God knows I spend too much time in a normal day hitting refresh. I appreciate the effort Pete puts into keeping us informed, but agreeing with everything Pete says is not in the terms of service. By providing a comments section on his blog, Pete invites debate and sometimes that debate may not be in agreement with all that Pete says.

    Pete has access to info that fans don’t have and generously shares it but when it comes to many things involving the Yankees, including Joba, Manny and Matsui, his guess is probably just as good as mine and yours. Heck, Cashman may not even know the answers to all those questions yet.

    So thanks Pete for the insights and stories you share. I’m a daily Journal News in print reader- seems only fair to support the mothership as repayment for the enjoyment I receive here. I appreciate the job you do for us all and will continue to keep reading everyday and commenting but I hope you don’t mind if I use the info you provide to form my own opinions rather than just mindlessly agree with everything you say.

  105. Joey's Poodle January 3rd, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Agree with Pete on this post and want to add a remark I’d personally like to never see again, in any of its versions:

    “Pay players for what they will do in the future, not for what they did in the past.”

    Idiotic comparison, and I’ll tell you why: we can’t know what any player will do in the future, while anybody who follows this stat-ridden sport can know what every player did do in the past. Every single player IS paid for what he did in the past, because it is the evidence we have to use to judge his potential future performance. This is true in every single contract that is ever given.

    So, it would be nice if people would quit solemnly repeating this inanity (no, not insanity) as if it meant something, because in the world of baseball it has exactly zero meaning.

    Attack if you must somebody’s poor use of the evidence, or bewail the fact that the (perfectly good) evidence didn’t predict that your player would walk out in front of a truck before ST. But quit mindlessly repeating this inane phrase. Please.

  106. joeman January 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 am

    wouldn’t mind seeing A Jones( in shape) playing CF for the Yankees at a discount, the man is still young enough and put up VG #’S when healthy

  107. Chris from NJ January 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 am

    Pete, I agree with all of your points. Joba is more valuable to the team as a starter,no question about it. I think we need to see a few more seasons of joba before we label him an injury problem.. at least any more of an injury problem than hughes.

    Just say no to Manny! I know the forbidden fruit of his potential is intoxicating for many fans, but he really is the antithesis of what Girardi wants in the clubhouse. It would only cause problems.

  108. Joey's Poodle January 3rd, 2009 at 8:28 am

    Girardi wants people he’d like more than he wants people who can produce?

    Not advocating for Manny-hiring, and agree that Girardi might have trouble coping with the ManRam, but listen to what we’re saying…

    It says as much about GI Joe as it does about Ramirez.

  109. Mark in Tampa January 3rd, 2009 at 8:35 am

    “Girardi wants people he’d like more than he wants people who can produce?”

    Sounds a lot like Jon Gruden, who just led my Bucs to a historic non-playoff collapse!

  110. Garym(Yanks and More) January 3rd, 2009 at 8:54 am

    Hey Pete,
    I like what you are saying here, i have always agreed with you on the Joba front but i think people see how dominant he was in the pen and then how he got hurt as a starter and they question it. As for Manny come on now, how would him and Girardi ever coexist its not happening and shouldn’t. They got the guy they should of in Tex as i have also said all along. If they have CC,AJ,Wang,Joba thats a nice way to start off, hopefully Andy but if not then Hughes or Aceves or IPK. They have a great team on paper now they need to put it together. YOu are right lets not worry about moving Jeter and Cano and OFS, we dont need to do anything let Girardi work it out, nice to have some depth for once.

  111. JK January 3rd, 2009 at 9:01 am

    How is it that the Yankees only have 3 starters signed and we are talking about Joba to the bullpen?

    Why is no one talking Price & Kershaw to the bullpen?

    Joba’s so called “violent delivery” is complete nonsense! He finishes his delivery in good fielding position not falling off the mound, so how the hell is his delivery violent?

    Veras, Lincicum, K-rod = max effort deliveries

  112. David January 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 am

    Agree with you down the line Pete. The thing is that as much as it drives me looney, many fans approach the game as a fantasy exercise. I don’t get the idea of illogically moving players into new positions with the expectation that it would work out without a hitch or just assembling a team big bats without regard to defense but it seems to be some folks cup of tea. I just wish they would put their comments in context and let us know this is their fantasy team and not serious consideration.

  113. JB January 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 am

    The eighth inning is not as important as innings one through six.

    Tell that to the ’97 Orioles, who lost the ALCS to the Indians in large part because they had Armando Benitez pitching the 8th inning. Tell it to the ’89 Cubs and ’93 Phillies, who also blew championship shots because they had the likes of Mitch Williams and Les Lancaster pitching the 8th and 9th innings. Heck, tell that to the ’08 Mets, who missed the playoffs entirely because their various collection of relievers couldn’t close out games.

    Pete, if this were 30 years ago, I’d agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. But since starters very rarely go the distance anymore, the late-game pitchers have become increasingly important. You’ll probably make the playoffs with a good starting rotation and weak bullpen, but you’re not likely to win a championship. And last I checked, the Yankees were all about winning championships.

  114. RER - 98 January 3rd, 2009 at 9:27 am

    There’s little left to do before spring training. Signing Pettitte takes care of the starting staff and gives Phil Hughes a little more breathing room to make his mark by starting the season at AAA to refine his pitches.
    If a sensible upgrade is found in CF, so much to the better.

  115. LathamJoe January 3rd, 2009 at 9:43 am

    “better to have a great pitcher throw 200 innings instead of 70.”

    And there lies the issue. There are some of us (me included) that feel Joba will not be healthy enough to throw 200 innings consistently (see Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, and a host of others). Setup men or 8th inning relievers are becoming just as important in today’s pitching strategy as a good starter and shutdown closer, especially since even your best starters average about 3 CGs per season.

    Bravo on your take about Matsui. I’ve been saying all off-season that it would be a mistake to lose Hideki , he represents the best mid-lineup clutch hitter the Yankees have – especially needed in Yankee stadium.

  116. EY January 3rd, 2009 at 9:47 am

    So glad that the same stay-at-home GMs who posted comments such as ones mentioned by Pete aren’t actually running the team.

    The idea that baseball is very different from xbox/ps3 can take a while to sink in.

  117. TJ January 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Exactly great points and comps on Joba, Cano, Hughes and Ian Kennedy. The Manny thing after getting Tex is just greed, unfortunately. It may have been necessary if the Sox got Tex but not now. BTW, PA….tell everybody what the Yankees win percentage was when Gardner started in CF.
    Maybe that will end the other debate.

  118. Bret the Hitman January 3rd, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Re: Pete’s points

    1)Joba is a starter, just look at his arsenal and stop freaking out about a minor setback last year. His arm is healthy or else they wouldn’t put him at risk.

    2)Greed is annoying. We don’t need an all star at every position. But that INCLUDES Matsui. People act like Arod will disappear without Matsui hitting 5th. Annoying.

    3)Overthinking is embarrassing. There are lesser versions that Pete didn’t mention. For instance, Nady in LF instead of Swisher.

    4)Hating on young players. Melky is off-limits too. He hit .333 in AAA last year and had a strong winter. He’s just as young as the guys Pete mentioned so there’s reason to be hopeful.

    5)Bedard is a better pitcher than Pettitte so stop smoking that stuff Pete.

    6)Matsui at DH is forcing Posada behind the plate. Did you know Jorge allowed 34 SB’s in the 30 games he played catcher last year? So until we can see with our own eyes that Posada isn’t going to stink up the joint I think any option involving Matsui getting traded is worth talking about even if the Yankees have to sell him as an 8 mil per player instead of a 13 mil per. The fact is, after Manny signs somewhere, Matsui is a better hitter than Giambi, Burrell, Anderson and equally as good as Abreu. Those guys are asking for multiyear deals and Matsui only has 1 year left.


  119. David January 3rd, 2009 at 10:02 am

    O.K. So much for appealing to logic. Giving examples of teams that lost shots at championships because they had bullpens that couldn’t hold the lead seems to forget that those teams had starters that (1) could keep a lead and (2) could get to the bullpen without needing relief before the seventh or eight inning. That my friends was not the case with the Yankees last year. Their problem was not blowing leads late in games but rather was starters that could not keep what leads they had and starters that could not get past the fifth inning. Let’s remember one of the bright spots of last year’s team was — THE BULLPEN. Yes, the Yankees actually had a decent bullpen last year even without Joba. In addition, the Yankees have a bevy of young arms that have and will prove useful out of the bullpen. IT IS PRETTY SIMPLE — THE YANKEES NEED IS FOR A STABLE AND EFFECTIVE STARTING ROTATION. That is where they were lacking last year. And a rotation is not three starting pitchers but five. So fellas, where do we go after CC, AJ, and CMW. Do we really go back to Kennedy and Hughes that proved unsuccessful last year or to Joba who proved to be successful as a starter last year. That’s not to say I don’t believe that Ian and Phil will not be effective at some point because they will. But a team takes care of it’s needs first not it’s luxuries. Yes, Joba in the bullpen is a luxury considering last year’s performance of the bullpen and the quality of arms in the bullpen without Joba. I too would like to see Joba every other day, out there screaming and pumping his fists but my greater wish is for a starter to get past the fifth inning every five days with another quality start. I have no problem turning the game over to Bruney or Veras and company. Think big folks not small.

  120. David January 3rd, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Hey Pete, also wanted to say the free IQ test banner above this piece was a great touch.

  121. Donnie Baseball 23 January 3rd, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Pete: Myself and “Aaron(the real Aaron) have been saying the same things for months. I do have to say I am on the fence bout Joba. My argument for him going to the pen is this. To me its going to be very hard to replace MO, and the fans wont want just any one closing. Joba is a fan favorite and would get the backing of the fans when he blows a game. He is not one I see giving us 7plus innings or being one going long into games when we may need it. He does throw alot of pitches to get guys out, now that may change in years when he learns hitters and what pitches he can throw at points in the game. I understand why people have these debates bout that issue. I understand your point bout him throwing 200 innings to 70 but one who coaches i think we can find starters and even in are system I think have some solid pitchers. Peter do you think Joba is a #1 starter??? Thanks for all you do and your on avg. 6 updates a day and plus NO ONE OR BLOG HAS LINEUPS UP BUT YOU

  122. Scott January 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am

    Mo still has two years to go, so we can continue to groom a replacement for him (not named Joba) with some of the talent we have in the minors.

    Joba was hurt last year because they moved him from the pen to starter. That is a tough transition.

    Matsui is an RBI machine, I would rather see Nady or Swisher traded.

    Posada gave up 34 SBs b/c he had a bad shoulder. He is also a hard nosed worker and I am sure he will be better behind the plate. He won’t be great b/c he never was a SB throw-out wizard, but he will be better.

    THere is no way RAB is better than this blog. The layout stinks, the bloggers aren’t Yankeed beat writers, the stats (admittedly by the authors on the CF debate) aren’t all that scientific. Three out of the last five posts weren’t necessarily Yankee related.

    Pete is one of the only bloggers I know that will answer your email. If that doesn’t take time answering emails from I dont’ know how many people, and yet still posting blogs, writing articles, traveling with the team and digging up stuff from other teams, agents, GMs, then JoeyH, you do a better job and start your own blog.

    THere are only two good blogs out there, this one and the Pride of the Yanks Blog which is closing down. That leaves one.

  123. Braintrust January 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Matsui has two bum knees, and is basically a DH at this point in his career. With that said, he’s a better hitter than Nady, or Swisher. Until it is proven otherwise, the guy is about a .300 hitter, capable of hitting 25 Hr’s, and driving in 100 RBI. A full year at DH should do him justice. Besides, who do we want hitting behind Arod & Tex? Swisher? Nady? They are 8 or 9 hitters in this lineup. Which shows how deep this club is right now. As it is, the lineup looks like this:


  124. yankee jay January 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Great post Pete. Matsui has been perhaps the most clutch hitter on the team the last few years. Also, look at the sacrifice he made by playing on his injured knee until the Yanks were eliminated. He is a true professional and should be embraced for putting his team first. Manny faked a knee injury because he was unhappy making $20 million.

  125. erik January 3rd, 2009 at 11:55 am


    The Yankees need to get rid of Matsui! He can’t stay healthy and the Yankees don’t need him as a DH anymore. Defensively he’s a liability and he’s shown he can’t stay healthy. He was great, but Matt Holiday would fit this team a lot better.

  126. Manimal January 3rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Quality over Quantity. Sorry Pete, RAB wins that catagory.

  127. Scott January 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Pete has hit the nail on the head on all points. Personally, I am looking forward to seeing what Mark Melancon can do in the closer’s role several years down the road. I am sure at some point, we’ll see him at the major league level being groomed through a setup role. If Joba proves that he isn’t suited for starting, then perhaps the bullpen idea gets revisited. But it would be foolish to pull the plug on the starting role right now. If Andy re-signs, having Joba bring up the back end of the rotation is far superior to having someone like, say, Brad Penny…

  128. YankeeVIP January 3rd, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    so true true.. thank you Pete for bringing some sense to the world.

    the only thing ill say is if the yanks decide to to move someone, matsui may make the most sense. i actually think the roster as is would be great. let gardner play CF, Matsui at DH, Posada at C and Swisher on the bench.

    Not sure if Swisher will be happy with a bench role though and if Posada will be able to handle Catching on a daily basis. if so, then you need to move Posada to DH. That means Matsui and some young pitchers (eg Kennedy) could be shipped out for an above avg. CF (maybe Aaron Rowand)

  129. Dan January 3rd, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    While there have been a lot of great posts on the Joba matter, what no one has mentioned so far is that Mariano underwent shoulder surgery this offseason. While the procedure has been described everywhere as “minor”, in simple terms he had a calcification of his AC joint SHAVED DOWN in his throwing arm. Remember that Damon sprained his AC joint this past year, and recall the effect that had on him swinging a bat.

    With the powerful additions to the rotation, the Bombers should at least entertain the use of Joba out of the pen this year. Nobody knows exactly how effective Mo will be, especially early on in the cold weather. With the pressures of high priced signings, if the Yanks pen falters early and without the most patient and calming of figures in the dugout, any Mo setback could be a huge problem.

  130. Old Ranger January 3rd, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Discerning, insightful and full of optimism, great.
    Those that really pay attention to the intricacies of baseball do understand, old stars are not necessarily the better players. Example; Johnny was asked why he didn’t bunt in a situation last year, his answer was something like this, “I don’t bunt”. EH! This is one of the many assets we have been missing lo these many years. A guy when presented with a situation, answers in the right manner, what ever it may be.
    We have many good to great (potentially) players in the system, give them a chance to work things out. And don’t say ; “Let them do it in AAA”, what the heck can one learn when one dominates in AAA?
    As far as obtaining Manny or another pitcher, we are fine as we are. Andy would be fine but, Phil or Aceves can do the job just fine.
    I think Braintrusts’ post for a line-up was good with one caveat; the last two batters could be changed to Swisher@#8 and Brett@#9.

  131. Virginia Yankee January 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Get a grip is right

    My Fear is and I have written this often is that the aging Matsui, jeter, Posada, Damon present a common risk — several of them injured or less then effective simultaneously – I gretly fear Jeter taking any more pitches on the hand, wrist.

    Cano, CF and RF are uncertain – do Melky Gardner achieve average CF conrtibution? What is Cano’s real form; does Nady improve over last year or regress.

    Can Mo be Mo one more year

    NOTICE PLEASE in this discussion – only 3B 1B and Sabbathia are beleived to be “locks” for sustained excellence barring injury –

    The Yankees are an OLD team – they fixed 1B, settled 3B and added one certain performer as SP #1. Burkett is not certain, Joba is not certain, Wang uncertain due to the inury. These players are at least in their prime.

    Jeter can’t play short – ARod and cano prvide a great deal of support. A slick fielding SS with some stick would greatly improve the defense and help IPK, Franchise Phil, and Wang — a glove and arm would support Sabbathia, Burkett and Joba.

    It is a problem – the Ynakes may run out the string to 2010 but if you want to keep a guy as great as Jeter with the Yankees and improve the team you have to do something – “thumb sucking” – that is – dithering while the problem gets worse is stupid.

    Maybe Jeets is gone in 2010 but if he stays where does he play. Right now he could play CF – I have watched him every game I could catch tape, or go to — he is a natural not an experiment. It is a place where the Yankees do not have a complete solution – Yount, C. Jones, and others made the transition – even Yogi played LF late in his career. Jeter could do this.

    Maybe he and Cashman have an accomodation and Jeter retires after 2010 ?? who knows but if he stays – do something

    The reason people argue for Joba in the pen is they fear the loss of Mo – sabrematics aside the game is managed to get 7 from the starters and go to the pen and then the closer. There are alternatives to Mo when he is done – but no one sees a Closer in Mo’s class like Joba appears to be – and it “appears”
    – that the Yankees have many potentially effective starters
    – college and last season that Joba has injury risk – so 200 innings as a starter may not be possible over a sustaine period, perhaps not even 160 in the coming year.

    Matsui – is not a great outfileder and the concern is that the wrist, and knees have taken t00 much of a toll – despite the stats and the terrific classly player he is — he may have no place othet than DH and only if he can continue to hit. The RISK is that Posada with 2 years to go on his contract may also have no where to play other than DH.

    Posada is not tradable and Matsui is — the issue is can you get fair value and a piedce or pieces that fit in some way. The Giants have a promissing young lefty — IPK and Matsui – Veras – Nady, others might provide some mix match basis for a deal centering on Matsui – as Branch Rickey advised you have to trade them a year early.

    As for young players getting of to bad starts before having HOF careers – you should be ashamed – the exceptions do not proove the rule

    The few you cherry pick did in fact have “bad” introductions BUT there are hundreds more of equal “PROMISE” that you can’t name because they were never heard from again. Talent evaluation and “HEART” evaluation are nearly impossible sciences — we have great hope that the young Yankees can be the next Jeter, Mattingly, Murcer, Mantle, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Mariano, Pettit, Guidry, Ford, Posada, Munson, Howard,, Berra

    Notice how few were raised as Ynakees – not bought or traded for – and i may not have those exactly correct -even Willie Randolf was a trade.

    We have hoped for the Yong Phenoms every year and were serially disppointed – the Jeter, Willimas, Posada Mo class was an deviation from the norm. Hope is not a plan –
    – every player has to fit the requirement for the coming season and in the seasons to follow — when they don’t fit and the alternative fill is reasonable trade when you can get the highest value

    Swisher and Ransom anre if nothing versatile with power

    Posada if he can’t catch and Matsui if he can’t play LF – clog DH

    Damon and Nady are adequate OF – but neither provides much option passed 2011 and wil be expensive to retainfor 2010.

    Cano is uncertain

    Jeter is all but toast at SS – he can play OF or clog DH – likley a DH with low comparative power numbers just to keep him a Yankee

    Stop “Thumb-Sucking” – ther is much more to do than Sabbathia and Teixeira

  132. PIGEON January 3rd, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    I think Cano will bounce back, but I am in favor of trading him to the Dodgers for Kemp and signing Orlando Hudson.

    This article was great… Joba should be a starter no doubt about it. He has 4 above average pitches, you dont put that in the bullpen unless he proves he cant stay heathy as a starter. He has been a starter his entire career.

  133. Old Ranger January 3rd, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    I read every day, and post once in a while.
    This Joba to the pen…for any reason…is ridiculous. The kid has everything a top of the line #1 needs to be a star. And some want him in the pen?
    Pete had it right; innings 1 thru 8 are more important then the 8th/9th. If you aren’t ahead…what good is Joba in the set-up/closer? Come on guys, just get over it, he is and will be a starter.

  134. Jonathan January 3rd, 2009 at 12:41 pm


    You made some valid points in your post. Unfortunately, there will always be those who think they know more than you and every other Yankees fan on the face of the planet. In their own warped minds, they are always right and everyone who disagrees with them are attacking them, making it personal or nothing more than idiot savants. Remember, getting into a pissing contest with them always leaves a mess.

  135. OxFred Eagle January 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 pm


    Just an amazing post… it addresses everything that has become so aggravating about the comments in various blogs (PSD, RAB, here) recently. The Yankees play real baseball, in real life. And Brian Cashman promises the Steinbrenner’s real money to these players. This is not a fantasy video game people. Get real.

  136. lou January 3rd, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    how does this lineup sound

    That’s what manny does for you, he lengthens your lineup. No rest for pitchers, makes for along day at the ballpark for visiting teams.

  137. CA Yanks Fan January 3rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    I agree for the most part, just get Andy to come back, give him 12M for one year and a club option so he saves face. I am nervous of Joba breaking down in the rotation, I’d rather have Hughes as the #5 for this year.
    1. Damon
    2. Jeter
    3. Texeira
    4. ARod
    5. Matsui
    6. Posada
    7. Nady
    8. Swisher
    9. Cano

    1. CC Sabathia
    2. AJ Burnett
    3. Chien Ming-Wang
    4. Andy Pettitte
    5. Phil Hughes

  138. O'Neill Fan January 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Manny does so much more than hit. He keeps teams honest. He lengthens the lineup. He’s clutch. He’s arguably the best two-strike hitter baseball has ever seen. People seem to forget that the Yankees stranded more RISP than any team in baseball the last 2 or 3 years, and the team’s average in that situation was horrible. With Manny in the lineup, that completely changes. If you’re fine with paying Chopsui $13 million to be your dh, why not pay Manny $24 million? Manny is 10 times the hitter Matsui could ever be. We upgraded the pitching staff, but we also needed bats. Sure, Teixeira was the big catch, but if you get Manny, you almost assuredly take that #10 ranked offense to #1. Not only that, but you could walk into Fenway with a guy who was once regarded as a hero there, and stomp on the Red Sox. Wouldn’t you like to see another 5 game Boston Massacre?

    Get Manny, and it will happen.

  139. YankeeAl January 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Great post by Abraham. There are some Yankee fans who can never get enough. Lets leave the team building to the front office and stick to being fans. If you want to play GM, there’s lots of fantasy games out there for these fans. Let it go!

  140. O'Neill Fan January 3rd, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    There’s other problems that I didn’t even mention. Sure, the lineup looks pretty good the way it is right now… if 3 conditions are met, and they’re BIG question marks.

    1. Matsui stays healthy. The iron man’s iron coating has been wearing off slowly over the years. He prided himself a little too much on that streak and thought he could compete with Cal Ripken Jr’s. Not happening. Now, he’s paying the price.

    2. Posada stays healthy. Although he hasn’t tried to be an iron man, he’s had some health problems over the years, and he’s starting to get up there in age. He’s obviously a huge part of the lineup when healthy, but are we going to get that from him?

    3. Cano bounces back. Robinson had the worst season of his short career last year. Are we going to get the guy that nearly won the batting title in 06? Or the guy who sucked for the better half of 2008.

    Get Manny, and the lineup doesn’t hinge so much upon these problems.

  141. AJ January 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Nothing annoys me more than people who say that Joba needs to be in the bullpen. He was dominant last year as a starter.

  142. Chester January 3rd, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    I still don’t like IPK. He’s not mentally tough enough for a finesse pitcher.

  143. JJYankeesFan January 3rd, 2009 at 2:05 pm


    The Yankees offense will be fine IF: Matsui stays healthy…Cano doesn’t hit like Ray Charles in the first half last he did last year…whomever plays CF can hit their weight…last years Nady shows up…Swisher has a bounce back year AND Jorge stays healthy. That’s a LOT of ifs…so I don’t know that GREED is the right word. Especially after the Yankees scored significantly less runs last year vs 2007.

    As for Joba…the question was NEVER if he had the TALENT to stay in the rotation…the question is if he can stay HEALTHY enough to stay in the rotation. Being in the rotation would be the best thing…but, I’d rather have him healthy for the year than dominant in the rotation for 16 games and then on the IR.

  144. CA Yanks Fan January 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    Remember, Girardi plays EVERYONE regardless of the standings. They need a very strong bench!

  145. godzilla January 3rd, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Matsui is the man..he deserves loyalty…let him knock in his 100+ runs. Too bad nobody could get on base ahead of hideki when he was in prime form this past season… when he was sacrificing his body for the team and playing through pain. plus i leant him a couple videos a few years ago and he has yet to return them!

  146. Ritalin January 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    Does anyone else think Cano might have ADD? just saying..the guy was born in the 80′s..

  147. 51jc January 3rd, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    i like what u said but i do like the idea of o-dog in center for the yanks,it word for BJ it can work for him if hes interested, the bedard rumor is rediculous, if ur willing to spend money on a 5 starter bring pettite back or stick with the kid who was pitching a perfect game into maybe the 6th or 7th until he got hurt, hes healthy again, i think he can be that pitcher again 2, as for the crowded outfield they need to keep nady its true that matsui has done great things, but if its between the 2 of them, nady is the type of guy the yanks had in the 90s, hes a gamer and one of the only clutch hitters they have, if they trade him then they are turning away from what made them world series champs

  148. 51jc January 3rd, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    and i also a a biggg fan of trading cano to LA for kemp and signing hudson to play second, the dodgers are said to have interest in cano and kennedy so finally let go IK will never be the dominant pitcher we though and it may be true that we may be letting go of cano too soon buttt ull essentially be getting one of the best youngg center fielders in the games along with one of the best second basemen, u cant go wrong there theyve both already proven themselves, o and ive heard bernie is trying to make the puerto rican team, if he does and does well bring number 51 back for a year, the guy has some unfinished business, i think he deserves another ring

  149. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 3rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Good points as usual Pete but gotta see Baja’s point here don’t you?
    Is Joba in the rotation the most logical place for him to be? Yes, until you factor in the injury factor.
    No one knows either way… but the fact is in one partial year as a starter he’s already made one trip to the DL. His motion is violent and it consumes energy. Can he hold up another season(s)? If he changes his delivery to be a starter for longevity’s sake will he be as effective? I guess only hindsight after the next two seasons or so will tell.
    Btw, how do you see CF shaking out? I’d hate to see any more position player acquisitions… too many can be disruptive…and I don’t think we need them. Is Gardner ready in your opinion (or more importantly the Yanks brass’ opinion?) I’d like to see him get a chance there if not only to show a faith in their own farm system. They wouldn’t go with Swisher in center would they?

  150. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 3rd, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    To expand on the last point… As a set-up man we have a proven quantity in Joba, maybe the best in the biz. Is it worth the risk to make him a starter, especially after his DL trip of last year?
    Not saying either way, but a bird in the hand…

  151. dave January 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Thing that drives me crazy:

    Someone writing two paragraphs called “The Joba Debate” without any mention of his sore shoulder history or his stint on the DL last year. It won’t be worth it if he has one big year then has a few lost years — and a few surgeries — like Wood and Prior — after which we say something like “He was never the same after…”.

    It’s inane to leave out this issue in the debate.

  152. Donnie Baseball 23 January 3rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    You guys wanna trade Cano who is alot younger than ODOG and def have more upside. ODOG has only hit over .300 once guys one time. Look at the stats and Cano is has only 6 less HRs and 63 less RBIs in his career than ODOG and ODOG has played 4 more years. Fielding % is ODOG .985 and Cano is .982. stats dont lie. I dont know how you guys can say that ODOG is better for the Yanks than Cano. Cano is a good young talent and hit .342 2 years ago guys. The Cano for Kemp is never going to happen. LAD are getting rid of Jones so that right there tells you that they plan on keeping Kemp and Either in that OF for a long time.

  153. Bob Mac January 3rd, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Time will tell if Joba’s shoulder can handle a starting pitcher’s role. The first effort suggests perhaps not. I completely agree a healthy Joba is more valuable as a starter. I do have concern about his shoulder issue last year and I have concern when he returned he was down several MPH from my observation. If he were to be returned to the bullpen, we can conclude the Yankees are significantly concerned as well.

  154. Gleb January 3rd, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Why the hate on Bedard? Did everyone forget his 06 & 07 seasons already?
    If Bedard had a chance to be a NY yankee I’d be ecstatic personally.
    Filthy rotation. It wouldn’t even be fair.

  155. Donnie Baseball 23 January 3rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    Maybe no one has forgot what he did in 06 and 07 maybe its because what he did in 08 and you should know its all about what have you done for me lately. If he starts the season say 8-2 with an era bout 3.20 everyone will be calling SEA. or

  156. Peter Lacock January 3rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Great post Pete. Logical and sensible but also futile. You always have to remember most of your readers are children and the kiddies are not typically either logical or sensible. They also are too immature to differentiate fantasy from reality and they like to argue no matter that it has merit or not. I read 8 blogs everyday and You and RAB are the best Yankee only blogs, but best in different ways. RAB is more of a fantasy league blog and better suited for young people. Your blog is multi-generational and more in tune with the thinking of Cashman and the Yankees. Both of you have your place and everyone has their opinion of each. I applaud your efforts and I hope you will continue to try to keep people grounded but you know you will never convince everyone.

  157. Daniel January 3rd, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    wow…i read some of these posts and its amazing what happens when idiots have internet access and post here…why would the yanks want bedard when he is an injury risk waiting to happen? why would the yanks want ramirez who would stop playing hard the first time girardi tells him to do something he doesnt wanna do? why would the yanks trade cano just cause he had ONE down year? why would the yanks move joba back to the pen just because of one trip to the dl last year? you all act like starters never go to the dl. you all need to get a life!!!

  158. Lorenzo January 3rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    I agree with alot of the thingsb you’ve said here. Especially about tempering the BS around Matsui. But, there’s something to be said – a very strong argument I should add – when it comes to having Joba in the bullpen instead of the rotation. We’re talking about CC Sabathia who’s thrown over 220 innings the last four or five years of his career…and A.J. Burnett who is injury prone. the less these guys throw in close games where te yankees are winning, the better. Let’s not forget the years where torre was manager and had that great formula of pitchers giving him 6 innings (unless the pitch count was already over a 100) and then another pitcher in for two and Mo in the ninth. By the end of the year, the rotation wasn’t decimated with exhaustion and they still had enough left for the rest of the reason. I do agree that Joba is good enough to pitch in the rotation – in fact, superbly! But, here’s a guy who can help the entire rotation win even more games by taking on a role that can be essential and necessary in the long run.

  159. CanIGetAMooseCall January 3rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    The question of Joba’s role in 2009 is a legitimate issue. He could be an excellent starter, or an excellent reliever. I don’t see why this issue cannot be debated.

  160. Old Ranger January 3rd, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Very good post, couldn’t have said it any better.

  161. Daniel January 3rd, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    well old ranger…great minds think alike.

  162. Old Ranger January 3rd, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    The question of Jobas’ role with the Yanks can be debated all you want…the bottom line is, Cash and Joe will make the decision. Every pitcher that throws hard will have trouble until he learns to Harness his EFFORT…AJ, anyone?

  163. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 3rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    So, people who wonder whether the Yankees and even Joba himself would better be served as a set-up man than a starter are now internet idiots and should get a life ? LOL. Almost all the responses to this subject I’ve read on this thread anyway questioning this have been pretty logical, respectful, and have merit.
    Right now it looks as if he’ll be a starter… OK so be it. I hope he does well and remains healthy. To say that discussion about it is off-limits… well. Didn’t know Daniel and others could dictate to all what is reasonable based on their own opinion. I guess that is their life…
    Relax man, we don’t make the call. Good, well thought out conversation is what this website is about, right?

  164. David January 3rd, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Wow. It’s amazing how the innings Joba threw as a reliever somehow have nothing to do with his injury, it only had to do with his innings as a starter. And of course, no young pitcher throwing innings never approached before ever gets injured unless they are starters. Let’s follow the logic, Burnett, Beckett, Sheets, and every fourth starter should be a reliever because they have been injured; and, the Mets were idiots for keeping Wagner as a reliever, since he was injured as a reliever, he obviously should have been turned into a starter. All outfielders that sustained an injury should have been turned into infielders, etc… Injury is a part of the game no matter where a player plays. Pitchers get arm and shoulder injuries and yes you try to protect them from that but it is way to soon to draw the conclusion that Joba has to be in the bullpen otherwise he will be a Prior or Woods. Those non-pro GMs in the Yankee organization just don’t understand the game like us. They are all wrong, along with all the other GMs and scouts that seem to covet a Joba as a starter. No, it is those of us at home and those gurus of the game on TV (who, by the way, don’t get hired as coaches, managers, GMs or scouts) that have the insight. Now don’t read anything into the tone of this post, I am just adding to this healthy discussion with the same passion that those who want to have players swap positions and demand that young players be given a chance but only if they where we think they should.

  165. MikeD January 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    It is amazing some people are still debating the Joba issue. It was never an issue among most baseball people, even last year. Any pitcher with that type of potential has to first be given the chance to fail as a starter before turning him into, of all things, a set-up man. Perhaps Joba’s arm is not capable of going 200 innings, in which case he can go the Kerry Wood route. That has yet to be determined. Unfortunately, his bullpen use has limited his ability as a starter. He’s already lost a year of development/building up his innings, so his max number in ’09 is probably 150. If it wasn’t for the bullpen experiment in late ’07 and early ’08, he’d be at the 200 inning mark already. Enough of the bullpen nonsense.

  166. dave January 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    As if the professional evaluators don’t make mistakes or take chances on experiments that wind up being disasters. How many times as some brittle pitcher — like Burnett — been given big money by GMs with the endorsement of scouts who don’t see any issues. Let’s dig up J.P.’s comments on A.J. after they signed him — and see if he seemed concerned about Burnett’s history. Even the pros misfire — and they take chances that don’t always work out. No one is omniscient. I wonder which pros signed off on Carlos Silva’s big contract — when most fans were saying “Huh???”

  167. 86w183 January 3rd, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    What ever happened to the abiilty to disagree witout being disagreeable? A little respect for a contrary opinion can go a long way.

    A starter will always be more valuable than any reliever other than a closer and if Joba’s medical reports indicate there’s no reason for concern then he should start. That said, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the 2009 Yankees would be a better team with Joba in the pen.

    Matsui if healthy is a fine hitter, but unless he proves he play in the OF he is a very limited player and the idea of moving him for a player who is more flexible is not inane or insane… it’s not realistic either, but that’s another matter.

    I was among those lobbying for Tex, but I’m not ripping those who wanted Manny or those who still want Manny.

    People who disagree with you aren’t idiots. People who resort to name calling because their limited vocabulary makes it impossible to express a dissenting opinion in a more civil manner just might be.

  168. nyyfaninlaaland January 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    By the way, since we’ve discussed Manny’s clutchness and big game performances, has anybody thought to notice that he’s hit over .250 once in 4 WS?

    Yes his production there has been decent, he’s been very good in the DS matchups, though those numbers are bumpped up quite a bit by his last 2 seasons, and his div. Series career numbers are pedestrian, though his last 4 series have been very good.

    Performance in such environments, because they are small sample sizes, tend to skew wildly. Manny is a great hitter, but his approach to the game is so uncertain – and seemingly money rooted – he becomes risky. At $20+ MM that’s a lot of risk.

    Health will always dictate how a player performs. Posada was awful against runners this year, but everyone knew he was playing with a torn labrum, so everyone ran on him. He came back from shoulder trouble earlier in his career, and we have a solid defensive backup to sub in late in games if necessary. He may require more DH time as we go forward, but that will be limited this year. No one knows if he’s done at C yet. And DH will be more available as an option if he needs it in future seasons.

    Is Jeter finished at SS? Not yet – a player is a package of both his offensive and defensive contributions, and the package he brings is still solid for the position. Jeter still makes the routine plays – 12 E’s this season. Yes his range is diminished, and we don’t have the Drew, Tulo, or like young SS stud playing here or the top minors. I fully expect Jeter will move 2-3 seasons down the road if the team needs him to, and also agree he could fill a role in the OF at that point. After all, he does seem to care a bit about winning. And we do have a range of kids in the low minors that might be something at that spot.

    A little patience is a good thing. Last season NY was devastated by starting pitching injury. Gotta feel better about that. Let’s try to avoid thinking of all that can go wrong – if all does, we’re hosed again. Right now things look pretty good. Adding Pettitte as the #4 would fit the Yankee way – keep you’re name players. It’s a nice tradition few orgs can or will maintain.

  169. Bob Mac January 3rd, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    It seems to me if everyone has the same opinion or hesitate to post a contrary opinion their is no point in a blog. No we are not GMs, but baseball fans like to think and talk as if they were in the winter. That is why it is a hot stove league. People sitting around expressing opinions on what should be done. Opinions are just that. They are not facts as many seem to think. Just because one has an opinion they feel confident about does not make it truth. For example, the two “experts” on MLB Hot Stove just concluded without hesitation Joba should be in the pen. Are they right or wrong? Next year will tell us this fact and not sportwswriters or bloggers. All opinions should be encouraged here even if we disagree.

  170. YankeeBaseball January 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Agree on all Pete said except Kennedy, who will never be good as a Yankee. His best hope is to get traded to the weak NL West. Perhaps he could be a #4 or #5 there. He doesn’t have the stuff to be nibbling on the corners and his mental approach is simply bizarre. I remember after one particularly poor outing, in the postgame interview he said he thought he did pretty good. WTF???

  171. Daniel January 3rd, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    Couldn’t agree more.

  172. Dan January 4th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    I still have yet to read anyone discussing Joba’s role on this pitching staff in light of Mariano’s shoulder surgery in October. Again, he had a calcification on his AC joint of his throwing arm “shaved down” — a non-trivial injury (due to rotator cuff proximity) and surgery.

    No one can assume that Mo will be 100% by the start of the season, or upon pitching in 2009 season’s early cold weather months. This alone is reason enough to consider Joba for a role in the bullpen.

  173. Sean January 4th, 2009 at 3:23 am

    “To read some comments on the blog, people think Cano, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy has bad seasons on purpose. ”

    Because you haven’t trashed on A-Rod’s lack of “clutchness” before.

    C’mon Pete! He’s only played in a handful of playoff games! Give him some time!

  174. Tony January 4th, 2009 at 9:16 am

    THANK YOU! Finally, someone writes an article that makes sense! Agree with every point…hopefully the morons who want Manny will root for whatever team he eventually signs with…

  175. Tony C January 4th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    If you want an example of just how little anyone really knows about what will happen in baseball, just think about how many times you heard some “expert” pick the Rays to win the A.L. penant last year. I think NONE would be the answer. It’s fun to talk baseball but but no none has a crystal ball.

  176. Hal S. January 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    I agree to an extent…

    If Joba’s arm gets tired again this year, the Yanks have to think about moving him back to the pen; end of story. I would rather have him contribute 70 innings than zero!

    With that said, it is a but disingenuous to refer to 70 innings as just ANY 70 innings. Presumably, the Yanks would use Joba in the 8th inning in close games. Surely THOSE 70 innings are more valuable than the 70 innings Dan Giese may contribute, right?

  177. Rob January 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Boy, I guess with all the starter trouble we’ve had over the last 8 years, we’ve been wasting that Mariano guy in the bullpen, huh? I’m sure if I searched the archives, I’d find a post where you supported this, right?

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