Bobby V could be lurking
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- January
- 6
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Rich DePreta of the Stamford Advocate wrote an interesting piece on Bobby Valentine over the weekend.
Valentine is entering the final year of his deal in Japan and wasn’t given an extension. He sounds like a manager who wants to come back home and give the Majors another shot.
Joe Girardi is going to get every chance to succeed from the Yankees. Brian Cashman wanted him, as did Hal Steinbrenner. But the Yankees can’t tolerate another season out of the playoffs. Their business model pretty much demands a postseason appearance.
Valentine, who has a home in Connecticut and a great appreciation for baseball history, would surely love to manage the Yankees. I covered Valentine when he managed the Mets. He’s an interesting guy. He’s smart, a bit Machiavellian at times, innovative and plays the media like a finely tuned grand piano.
There will be no shortage of candidates to manage the Yankees if Girardi falters. But keep an eye on Valentine.
Sure, Valentine was fired by the Mets. But as he told DePreta, “I know I’m a different person than I was two years ago. I’m certainly different than I was 10 years ago.”
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on Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 at 10:12 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Pete, the season hasn’t even started yet and already you are looking for a replacement for Girardi? Give the guy a chance!!
“Joe Girardi is going to get every chance to succeed from the Yankees.”
Clearly.
ok guys, I know this post just went up, but someone has over 1300 votes, and Pete has 88
don’t respond yet … go vote for Pete, then make any comment you’d like! lol
The blog that is winning is not even remotely approaching the quality of many of the other blogs. The blog literally is littered with half-naked women and curse words for effect. It’s a bit trashy and unprofessional but is winning by 1,000. Pete’s blog will catch up, considering how easy it is to vote, but when you’re advertising for people to vote with sex, you’re clever but you’re also pathetic.
I’ve never even heard of that Kissing Suzy Kolber site. Looks more geared towards football.
voted.
How is kissing suzie kolber taking 51% of the vote.
I’d consider a conspiracy theory or two….
Call Jack Ryan, now!
Ummmm…No
Someone at Suzie’s blog obviously knows what I just posted above lol
For the record, I’m not saying Girardi should be fired. But the Yanks didn’t drop $423.5 million to finish third again. Like him or not, Valentine would be a potential candidate.
I love when Bobby randomly pops on the radio at times, mostly when there’s a Japanese player coming over – everyone jumps to call him looking for the scoop.
Pete – you’re allowed to help us vote you number 1 you know
Wasnt Valentine a potential candidate when Torre left too? And he didnt even get an interview did he?
“For the record, I’m not saying Girardi should be fired.”
I know, Pete. I’m just giving you grief.
mark the date down. Jan 6. Pete already starts the fire Girardi stuff. Way to get out ahead of it.
right click again****
Will vote often, thanks for the Tip, c’mon where is everybody else!!
PS…I’m okay with Valentine
I’m just saying can we till July till we talk Girardi’s job geez. Other than that it’s a weird day today.
I’m sure the polling website can track if people voted more than once by IP addresses and can delete and filter out what they need to filter out.
Keep Valentine away from the Yankees.
Bobby V wears out his welcome in short order wherever he goes. He does get a lot out of his players at least to start. Not a big fan.
Would they ever have the guts to go back to Mattingly and would Mattingly swallow his pride? Players loved him to begin with and Tex’s hero. There would need to be a ton of bridges rebuilt there.
Bobby V would be a fine replacement if the situation presented itself.
On another note, I am becoming increasingly worried about the prospect of the Yankees dealing from their above-average depth at the corner outfield position. I am basically referring to them dealing Swisher or Nady, or quite possibly both, as has been reported by many reliable hot stove sources (Rosenthal, MLBTR, etc.). In my opinion, this would be a terrible mistake. Not only is the depth a luxury to protect against injury, but each of the aforementioned outfielders represents the kind of player drastically needed by the Yankees, the “grinder” type that has been missing in, not all positions, but as a consistency throughout the line up. It is unrealistic and farfetched to believe both players will assure a WS ring, but it sure would help to have more “grinders” that battle to complement our line up, and the luxury of depth in such a long season.
Cashman is a big Valentine fan.
I agree, if Girardi falters, he will definitely be in the mix.
Not saying he would get the job (I think they would reach out to Mattingly first) but, he will be in the mix.
He has friends in high places in the Yankee organization.
He’s Billy Martin, without the booze, when it comes to baseball strategy.
I don’t know if it would work with the Yankees but, the guy is one of the smartest, most innovative minds in the sport.
Just don’t know how he would get along with the players. That could be his downfall.
If you could put Valentine’s game prep and Mattingly’s ability to relate to players, you would have the perfect manager.
jeez pete isn’t it a tad early to even consider threats of firing joe? i mean i know he isn’t your favorite (at least it seems in some of your posts in the past), but at the least wait till memorial day before you start guessing on girardi’s future with the club.
Valentine is under the impression that he invented baseball. For all I know, he’s Billy Martin returned from the grave. He’s an abrasive, egotistical jerk. He’ll come in, fix a team, get run out of town, and it’ll take 5 years to undo the damage. It would be Billy Martin, Part VI.
Brian the Sox fan, what makes you think Swisher is now a utility player? As of right now I’d say he’s the starting LF. An outfield of Swisher, Damon, Nady is easily the best option with the players the Yankees currently have.
By all accounts, Valentine is a smart baseball guy; that said, if the Yankees do not win their division this year, I think Hal might have to fire everyone, including his big brother and Bobby Valentine before he’s even hired.
I don’t think Pete was ripping Joe G with this post guys – just passed alone a link with an article about Bobby V and a note that IF Joe G does falter, Bobby could be in the mix – which would be an incentive to read the article he posted.
It is definitely way too early to be talking about his job, but yeah Bobby V would be in the mix
Brian the Sox fan, what makes you think Swisher is now a utility player? As of right now I’d say he’s the starting LF. An outfield of Swisher, Damon, Nady is easily the best option with the players the Yankees currently have.
___________________
Maybe the best offensively…
Kissing Suzy Kolber is bad blog. There subject matter is always juvenile and the writing is awful. Still, the are HUGELY popular outside the sports blogosphere and I predict that they will win any such competition.
That said, I’m voting for the Lohud Yankees blog. Pete writes beautifully and it is actually about sports.
If it were possible, I’d make the switch right now !!!!! Bobby V is an outstanding lifer baseball guy….SJ44 nailed it, He’s Billy boy without all the baggage…..
OW. The filters won’t allow Valentine to be called an abrasive, egotistical jerk, who believes that he invented basebll.
He’d fix the team in the first year, get run out of town and it’ll take 5 years to clean up the wreckage, just like everywhre he’s been.
Why is this being interpreted as being anti-Girardi?
Another writers did an article on Valentine. Seems pretty clear to me that Valentine would jump on the chance to manage the Yanks. It’s a reasonable topic to discuss.
I would have concerns about Valentine…I think his Mets teams were pretty much split about him. I’m sure he doesn’t care, but I don’t know if that would work in the Bronx and the egos in the clubhouse. That said, no one can question his managing skills or baseball acumen.
I hope Girardi is the manager for a long time…that means a stretch of success.
But Bobby V is out there, and it’s hard not to think about it, particularly in the cold of January.
Pat, after the Yanks win in the first year, Valentine would get fired and it would take 5 years to cleanup the wreckage.
Yanks In 2009:
No, that’s our best OF period. The offensive upgrade from Gardner/Melky to Nady/Swisher (whoever is playing instead) is greater than any loss due to defense. The only question with that alignment is whether Damon can hold up playing CF everyday, not whether it’s better.
Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady are drawing ** “significant interest.” ** Rosenthal speculates that the Giants, Braves, or Pirates would make sense.
**Brian Fuentes’ agent had serious talks with the Yankees, but no offer was made.** Fuentes would’ve been Mariano Rivera’s set-up man and perhaps taken over upon his retirement.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-late.html
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If the Pirates do want back Nady, could we get back Tabata? LOL.
From the previous thread -
SJ –
(1)I care about how the Yankees spend “their” money because it gives them a huge competitive advantage. The Lions used to regularly beat the Christians, but The Roman Times never gave them any credit for their accomplishments.
(2) Be careful about the pat argument about the Yankees and “their” money. I spent three (miserable) years in a State Budget Office, and I have some knowledge of public money being steered towards private enterprise. That money, inevitably, becomes commingled with existing revenue, and allows an expenditure pattern above what could have been reached in the past. If public subsidies pay for your “Obligation A,” then you can go on to “Discretionary Item B.”
In layman’s terms, the Yankees are no longer spending “their” money. After the issuance of the taxpayer subsidized bonds, the Yankees are using tax dollars (once the shell game ends) to pay for millionaire ballplayers.
This is a sweetheart deal unmatched in MLB. This is not a free market environment. It is a cartel, a monopoly, and the Yankees are fleecing taxpayers (with the bogus land assessment)to increase their advantage.
It is no longer “their money.”
The Yankees do not, I repeat do not have a surplus of players. Damon and Swisher can both play CF and Matsui could use a day off once or twice a week. There will be plenty of at bats to go around for Nady and Swisher.
I have an answer for Valentine:
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no o no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no o no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
and NO.
Hiring a manager whose ego rivals the A-Rods of the world is not a good idea with a veteran team. Once the Mets became a more veteran team they grew tired of him. Let’s put it this way: there’s a reason he’s been managing in Japan for all these years.
Fraom previous thread:T
here is a reason why Yanks are being firm with Andy. Soon, they have to deal with Jeter situation.
They are offering slightly better than market value to Andy and they want to stay with that principle for the future as well. Yanks have always paid their players well and above market value for thier current production, but still these greedy players hold them up during their declining years (Posada?). I think yanks are changing that culture moving forward.
As much as I like Andy like many here, now that he is not on PEDS, he will break down in the second half. In fact, in the past few years he was good in the second half as he was on the PEDS. When he left for Astros, Yanks concern was his elbow and PEDS helped him overcome that.
Also, as I stated many days back, I believe that Yanks want to start in the new stadium without any known drug cheats. They made an exception for Andy because of the history and he blew it. I do not see him coming back and I am alright with it.
Now, Andy not coming is not the end of the world. I think they will go with the youngsters and see for a couple of months how it shapes up. If it does not work out, then they will trade thier surplus outfielder to get a good 4/5 pitcher. Many good ones will be available as salary dumps in the mid-season.
As much as Valentine changed over the last few years (in his own words), he is still a hot potato and I doubt he will work well with Cash and his team.
Torre was great at that and inspite of his troubles with media, Girardi also works well with Cash and his team. They may disagree but it is never in the public.
Hey Pettitte. If Giambi can take a 17M pay cut after hitting over 30 hrs and 90 rbis last year, you can take a 6M cut for 14-14 and an ERA almost 5.
Pete you got my vote . .Awesome blog !
Yes, Bobby V could be a ‘plan B’ worth considering. But the team should only consider that if things go badly this year. The team looks good now. Good things will happen. Questions include the comebacks of Posada & Matsui, and how Garnder, Melky & Nady perform. Deals could be made as their seasons unfold.
But if the team plays well but only goes almost all the way, that doesn’t automatically mean Girardi should be fired and Bobby V hired. Lets say the team goes 102-60 and wins the east by 4 games, but something simple like a bad ump call, or a bad hop, or a bloop hit, or a fielding error (or midges) are the difference as the team gets eliminated in the ALCS … is that a valid reason to fire Girardi? I don’t think so.
If Joe G were to screw up a lot of things during the season or make a series of terrible managing decisions leading to the team’s demise, then it could be a valid move. But the winning WS isn’t an automatic thing for anyone and things beyond anyone’s control just happen in the game.
Just for random example, if Melky has a good year, comes of age to hit .305 and has no mental lapses in the field but he misplays a ball in the lights in game 7 of the ALSC which coste the team a trip to the WS, people here will probably call for Cashman’s head to be served on a platter for not making the Mike Cameron deal 10 months before. Others will call for Girardi’s head, for not moving Damon or Nady over to CF instead of keeping Melky in for that play, or for not converting Jeter to an OF soon enough to prevent the misplay from happening.
I could imagine the posts: ‘Bring on Bobby V! Girardi’s clearly to blame for Melky losing the ball in the lights and missing it by a few inches!’ And then Sam I Am will post it as yet another one of Cashman’s numerous career blunders because Theo Epstein never would have passed on a chance to trade away a guy who would lose a single ball in the lights 10 months later.
I say stay the course.
Pete’s not the only one who’s noted that Girardi could be on the hot seat this season in light of the improvements and the cost thereof that the Yankees have made this off-season. I’ve thought the same thing, and I’m not anti-Girardi. It’s kind of common sense.
But Bobby Valentine – would be interesting.
If Pettitte doesn’t sign, who is out there that could be acquired in trade?
Re the public money thing, the Yankees are basically getting a tax break by using public financing, not private. The Yankees are still making all the payments, their bonds are just tax exempt so they save some money. So no they are not taking taxpayer money, they are just paying less in taxes similar to every other large corporation that agrees to headquarter in NYC and every other city. But do not muddy the waters by saying they are using tax payer money, they just aren’t.
Totally off topic here, but has anyone else heard a rumor of a potential terror threat tomorrow in Manhattan, or is it only me?
Without Pettitte, you still dont need to trade. Pettitte isnt the last FA Pitcher out there.
If Giradi fails in 09…i would like to see Mattingly back as the manager
Well said Jeff NJ.
In the case of many other parks, the local governments paid for the stadiums.
In the case of Yanks they pay for the stadium. They pay the principal amount. They get a break on the debt servicing as the interest paid is not taxable.
Not Mattingly. Yankees would need an older guy with some fire, a Lou Pinella type to light a fire under them.
Peter,
I just cast my vote for your blog. You do a fantastic job; and I appreciate that you are constantly looking for ways to improve. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
“Totally off topic here, but has anyone else heard a rumor of a potential terror threat tomorrow in Manhattan, or is it only me?”
Where did you hear it?
I do not know if you have sources, but if not, you will be considered spreading serious rumors and will be in trouble. I am pretty sure your note already got picked up by national security surveillance.
Tex’s new best friend
January 6th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Not Mattingly. Yankees would need an older guy with some fire, a Lou Pinella type to light a fire under them.
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what a load of rubbish. we won with the calm tea drinking torre
Jeff NJ – semantics ….. taxes they don’t pay is money they can spend on players; especially tax savings based on laundered land assesssments.
Either (1) other NY taxpayers have to pay more to make up for the Yankee shortfall, or (2) services to NY City taxpayers will be curtailed (not counting the new YS Subway station).
As I said previously, just wait for the shell game to end. The Yankees have access to millions that should be paid in taxes.
And I’m sure that the borrowing rate is optimum, as well (based on the public backing).
BBFan,
I think that guy is a troll. Don’t believe it. If you do feel uneasy about it, just watch the afternoon/night news to see what’s up.
Anyone that ever re-entered the dugout after ejection in a disguise should be immediately disqualified from managing the Yankees.
You just got my vote Pete.
what a load of rubbish. we won with the calm tea drinking torre
We won 10 years ago with Torre, everyone got complacent and here we are. The point of changing was to change the cool attitude for a fire. Girardi has not brought that, but someone else can.
Pete: Voted.
the only thing I remember about Bobby V is that day he tried to sneak into the dugout with that glasses+ mustache design….you only see that in baseball!
Another reason I love this game…
Supposedly a Brooklyn woman was told by a Middle Eastern cab driver in Manhattan to stay away from Manhattan on Wednesday.
Think Girardi was supposed to light a fire under these guys? To be honest the offseason moves I believe are going after guys that are good and don’t need fires lit under them. Burnett and Sabathia are competitors on the mound as we have seen up close. Throw Joba in there with them. Three pitchers with the demeanor on the mound we have lacked for some time. Tex is an Arod hard worker. Letting guys like Abreu go were the guys that need the fire lit a bit, younger players will be learning from Posada, Tex, Arod, Jeter, CC, etc next year. Better crop of leaders on this team next year than there were in the past I think. I think a much better team to be honest to succeed under a Torre managing style now to be honest than Girardi.
Miles, you don’t seriously believe that…
One thing to add about the stadium funding, additional tax revenues will be generated in many ways by the new stadium, so its not like the Yanks are getting something for nothing from state taxpayers.
For those speculating about Girardi’s future, if yanks make it to the playoffs, he will be safe irrespective of what happens. Torre survived for six years like that and Girardi can survice for one year
Anyone who doesn’t like KSK doesn’t appreciate humor.
Tex’s new best friend
January 6th, 2009 at 11:30 am
what a load of rubbish. we won with the calm tea drinking torre
We won 10 years ago with Torre, everyone got complacent and here we are. The point of changing was to change the cool attitude for a fire. Girardi has not brought that, but someone else can.
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if the players need to be motivated and fired up by a manager.they shouldnt be there
Mattingly has a good baseball brain,knows how things should be done….and probaly wouldnt lie and have stupid clubhouse rules like giradi
Not to imply an opinion one way or the other, but is a lower-cost Abreu return something that’s being considered by the Yanks?
Is the rule that they can’t talk to him about a new contract until after the season starts now?
Did I just see the A’s give the Big G $5.25 for a one year deal? Wow. And Andy won’t settle for $10???????
I like Girardi, but as has been used or sadi elsewhere he needs to take a Coughlin like change in approach and inprove his media realtions to an extent, but certianly his relationship with his players.
Sorry, i didn’t mean to scare any of you, and that’s why i specified that i only heard a rumor and that so and so goes the story. Never did i indicate that i think It’s credible or anything of the sort. And that’s why i wanted to hear if anybody else heard of it, or if It’s a locally fabricated story. . .
And no, i’m not a troll. Go ahead and check my commenting record. . .
“This is a sweetheart deal unmatched in MLB. This is not a free market environment. It is a cartel, a monopoly, and the Yankees are fleecing taxpayers (with the bogus land assessment)to increase their advantage.”
SO, let me see if I got this right…
The City and State of NY get screwed every single year by Congress and the White House when it comes to getting our rightful share of federal aid from DC – commensurate with the taxes paid by NYers to the Federal Government. And with few exceptions, that’s true regardless of which political party is in office. According to this argument, the Yankees and the City are supposed to voluntarily submit the highest possible land value assessment to the IRS and say in effect, “Dear IRS: hit me as hard as you can.” Brilliant. I suppose that’s how everybody fills out their personal taxes, too. “Hey, forget those darned exemptions and deductions and tax credits. I want to pay the most I can!”
The IRS are big boys and girls. If they didn’t want to accept the land value assessment submitted by the Yankees and the City, they would just reject it. Stop crying about the Yankees ripping off the IRS. In effect, it’s just NYS tax money coming back to NYS for a change. That should be cause for celebration, not looney conspiracy theories.
This whole stupid argument shows how silly Brodsky’s grandstanding is. Dick Brodsky should be more interested in figuring out how to do more such deals to get something good for NYS out of D.C.
Just my opinion of course
“Either (1) other NY taxpayers have to pay more to make up for the Yankee shortfall, or (2) services to NY City taxpayers will be curtailed (not counting the new YS Subway station).”
What Yankee shortfall? You think the politicians budgeted getting x amount from Yankee taxes on their borrowings? Let’s not be naive. And I would like you to name one service which has been curtailed because of this.
I think Bobby V would bring to the table one critical thing that Girardi doesn’t: Real credibility with the older, established players. Guys like Jeter, Alex, Posada, Mariano, etc. would be more inclined to listen to a manager with decades in the game. You have to wonder if every time Joe G gives his opinions/instructions, there’s not a part of these guys that says “well… says who?”
Once again, Rebecca, no, i didn’t say i believe it, just wanted to hear if any of you heard about it and perhaps know how this rumor came about, or is it a joke initiated by some clown. . .
murphydog -
NY and NJ both rank at the bottom in terms of getting their tax-money’s worth from the Federal government.
States like Alaska, where taxes are pretty low, seem to do a lot better in getting a return on their dollar for pet projects (bridge to nowhere anyone?).
Hey Pete good job getting nominated. I voted for you, but guys come on Pete is running a distant second, we got to get him that award, i am sure if we get all the people voting here Pete will win. I wouldn’t speculate about Girardi just yet, he did win 89 games last yr in a great division and all the injuries. He does need to improve his media skills but the guy is going to be a very good manager.
I personally wanted Donnie Baseball but Girardi is going to be fine,they better make the playoffs this yr though with this team.
I like Bobby V’s style, and would welcome him should Giradi lose his job.
I wonder if I’m in the minority, but I would love to see Willie Randolph as Yankee manager one day as well. I think he would better suited as an AL manager than NL.
“my issue with the Swisher acquisition isn’t that he was obtained for spare parts. My issue is the $21M financial obligation for a utility player. This isn’t complicated. The “market” for utility players (or a whole bench, for that matter), is decidedly NOT $7M/year.”
How about Julio Lugo?
Of course he’s worth every penny of the 8-9m he’s earning this year and next to sit on the bench behid lowerie. But that’s decidely ok because theo is a management genius who is beyond reproach.
And I also know that 5m per year has to be the going rate for a 4th OF as that’s around what the sox paid crisp to baby sit all world wonderkind jacoby ellsbiury.
But of course those expenditures on utility guys are completly rational market based expenditures because the smartest management minds this side of jack welch made them.
What’s funny about this is that you have no idea how swisher will be used – none. They very well could shift damon to Cf and play swisher in Lf.
It was fine for the sox to pay tex 170 M but outrageous for the yankees to pay him 180? Nonsense.
Just like its fine for the sox to pay lugo 8m to rot on the bench and awful for the yanks to do that with swisher.
This is the logic of bitterness.
You know, everyone thought Tom Coughlin was going to get fired after that first year, and he didn’t and won the Super Bowl the next year.
I’m not saying Girardi will win the World Series (though I hope he does), but one bad season does not a bad manager make.
My friend once explained thus to me, when Syracuse switched football coaches between my Freshman and Sophomore year:
The first year, when the coach has not had much of a chance to get to know his players and his own recruits might not yet be playing, the team can’t be expected to do too well.
The second year should be better than the first, and by the third year you should expect to see solid results.
Now, I know baseball is different than college football. Baseball managers don’t have the recruiting potential that college coaches do, and baseball managers also have a much longer season to get all the kinks worked out.
Even so, the idea that after just one season you can or should fire a manager if you don’t make the playoffs is folly. Two years, in baseball, is a different matter, although I would still like to see the benefit of the doubt realized.
I do not know which is less surprising: This blog being nominated (it is an amazing blog), or Pete throwing another dagger at Girardi (he clearly hates the guy)
Jeff NY – in Government budgeting, some attention is paid to what are called the “out years.” The Yankee shortfall, compensatory tax increases,and/or service cutbacks would take place in the “out years” (i.e. later). Assuming that NY Governments do “out year” revenue projections, the Yankee piece is a little light.
The Yankees have great fans, so smitten with their aura that they don’t even care when the Yankees are fleecing them.
“Keep you enemies close, and your friends closer.”
Girardi is a fine man, and a good manager. But he didn’t do very well last year, in all honesty. He flat out lied to the press on more than one occasion (a sure fire way to make your life miserable in NY), and didn’t communicate with the players well either.
I would have liked to see more fire from him on the field. A little more screaming and yelling goes a long way. I remember two instances all year where he came out kicking and screaming, tossing his hat, etc. Both times the team went on prolonged winning streaks the next day. Think fire from the manager on the field doesn’t work? Think again. It shows the team you care. A lot.
Girardi is a fine man, and a good manager. But he didn’t do very well last year, in all honesty. He flat out lied to the press on more than one occasion (a sure fire way to make your life miserable in NY), and didn’t communicate with the players well either.
I would have liked to see more fire from him on the field. A little more screaming and yelling goes a long way. I remember two instances all year where he came out kicking and screaming, tossing his hat, etc. Both times the team went on prolonged winning streaks the next day. Think fire from the manager on the field doesn’t work? Think again. It shows the team you care. A lot.
Doreen: Because states like NJ and NY don’t need the federal money like Alaska does.
Compare the federal land Alaska has, the smaller population, the higher percentage of people living in poverty…
Alaska gets more federal money because the state can’t afford it.
Hey, Sal, I checked out your website, and this makes you my new best friend. Which DC pieces have you worked on, if you don’t mind me asking? Anything Neil Gaiman?
“You know, everyone thought Tom Coughlin was going to get fired after that first year, and he didn’t and won the Super Bowl the next year.”
Coughlin won in his 4th year.
Good post though. People need to lay off Girardi. The team 89 wins with not starting pitching, and in an insanely tough division.
Far be it for me to feel sorry for millionaires, but these guys have got to be reeling from how dried up the market is. Giambi signs for almost 20mil less than what he made last year? Wow!
Manny Ramirez might have to sue Boras. Boras had him thinking that there was some mega deal out there to be had. Manny might be lucky to get $10mil. He should have taken the Dodgers offer while it was still out there.
How did Swisher become a utility player just because of one bad season playing out of position in CF? The Sox thought enough of him to trade their top pitching prospect at the time and an OF? If anything I think Swisher will end up having a good year and a starter in the Yankees OF which will have holes next year. He also could spell a rest for Tex to let him DH some games and DH next year. He I think will be a good fit for the money owed and under a reasonable contract which makes him tradeable if they wanted at some point.
bdog: His fourth year? Really?
It’s not that I’m ignorant, it’s that I’m a Jets fan…
Oh. Wait. Crap.
Brian, you are of course selectively ignoring how much extra revenue is the city generating from the new deal with the Yankees. Not to mention the money to be made from selling parts of the old stadium. All this extra revenue more than makes up for the 30 years of tax differences from allowing the Yankees to use public rather than private financing.
Holy crap, Sox fans are now claiming some sort of sweetheart dealings going on between NYC and the Yanks? It comes to that? Wasn’t Lucchino’s calling card his ability to get San Diego to pay for a stadium? Yanks are paying for their own stadium and bonds are things that get paid back.
Manny in the end will get his money or at least a contract with incentives to keep him happy. Bobby Abreu is totally screwed, however. Especially with Bradley being signed. I had problems with Bobby for his energy at times, but he seemed like a good guy and showed up to play.
Abreu is simply a victim of bad timing.
A lot of times people don’t realize how important timing plays into the world of professional sports.
With someone as ‘big name’ as Abreu, we can sometimes forget that everything is about timing, but it’s still true.
I mean, what happens if Alex is a free agent in 2008 as opposed to 2007? What happens if Alex was a free agent in 2006?
Bobby V. is the Larry Brown of baseball. Keep an eye on him.
CB – you’re (somewhat) misconstruing my post:
(1) Lugo – the Sox got him to start, and gave him two years. He stinks, they replaced him with a farm product, and may well put him on the bench. But they didn’t trade for him in November, and replace him in December.
(2) Crisp – same as Lugo; didn’t pan out. The Sox didn’t trade for him in November then change their mind in December. He actually got to start lots of games (over three years).
(3) Teixeira – if the Sox signed Teixeira, their payroll would have been about $130M …. the Yankees will be 60% above that. It’s not any individual signing, it’s the total payroll that is problematic.
(4) Are you trying to tell me that the Yankees got Swisher (and his $21M contract) to be a utility player? that was the plan? when Burrel goes for $16M?
(5) The “logic of bitterness.” You’re right there … but I’d like to think that I’m more distraught than bitter. Otherwise, I may have to change my medication.
“Manny in the end will get his money or at least a contract with incentives to keep him happy.”
From whom? The Dodgers have pulled their offer. If they come back with a new one, why would they offer him 20mil when they could get Abreu for less? The Nationals might offer Manny something, but what are the chances that a very motivated Manny Ramirez shows up for Spring Training? He’d be playing for the Nationals, who have a zero chance of going to the playoffs. Manny would quit on them before Opening Day.
Manny’s market has dried up and I’m glad. He is getting exactly what he deserves.
“Otherwise, I may have to change my medication.”
Do it
Brian,
I’d argue that this sort of deal is common throughout all sports, including minor leage levels. The difference is that the yankees are actually paying their debt service, as opposed to many others, where the taxpayers are paying that themselves.
Can you blame them for trying to lower their expenses where possible? do you not take advantage of tax exemptions legally available to you? the idea that the average person is somehow getting the short end of the stick because the yankees assessment is favorable seems pretty selfish to me. i’ve gotta say good for the yankees for running a smart business, and good for the yankees for actually paying their own debt service instead of passing it along to the taxpayer.
“I mean, what happens if Alex is a free agent in 2008 as opposed to 2007? ”
Alex falls into the same category as CC and to a lesser extent, AJ. He’s a Top Tier guy that is almost immune to market conditions. Alex would have gotten his money this year as well. Not sure he’d get the 300mil, but he wouldn’t be going to the poor house either.
“The Yankees have great fans, so smitten with their aura that they don’t even care when the Yankees are fleecing them”
Brian,
I have been very unhappy with the method throgh which the stadium has been financed.
I’d venture to guess based on your self-righteousness on thid issue that the sox get $0 in terms of subsidies, right? So every dollar they spent on free agents after missing the playoffs after 2006 was “their own” right?
I’m also sure that when the long rumored “new fenway” gets built – which it will the sox will be far too honorable to take one cent from tax payers in any form?
And i’m sure you’ve expressed much stronger dissapproval about the new ball park carl pohlad got for the twins that was 100 percent tax payer financed, or the shenanigans with ATT park I sf, citizens in philly, the mariners new park or the brewers or the nationals or any of the other cash cow new stadiums built over the past decade – all parks that bilked the tax payers for much more than the yankees have.
Because water front property in SF is worthless you know as is ptoperty in downtown washingto dc.
I don’t know about Bobby V.. But Girardi is a horrible manager and has to go.
People here seem more for the idea of Joe Girardi than what he actually is.
The logic used would be comparable to trying to convert Arod to pitching because he’s got a good arm and he plays baseball.
“Manny might be lucky to get $10mil.”
If that is the case, believe me, Yanks will jump at him.
From his stint on BBTN I can’t stand Bobby Valentine. His stunt with the fake glasses after he got thrown out of a game doesn’t work in his favor either.
In addition, Swisher was brought in to be the starting 1b, and it wasn’t until the cost of tex fell so much that he became an option.
It’s been stated before, but I think it must be repeated. Swisher is not a utility guy and trading either Nady or Swisher would seem a big mistake to me. Between Damon, Matsui, Nady and Swisher, the Yanks have 4 guys to play 3 positions everyday. Matsui and Damon are both aging and will certainly benefit (if not require) days off. Nady will benefit from not facing the top right-handers (Halladay, Beckett, etc.). Tex should get a few games off and Nady/Swish can plug in on those days. Likewise, Damon should get 15-20 starts in CF. And of course, there are always injuries. Going into the season with the current cast is a good situation. While none of these guys will be locked into a position every day, they should all get 5ish starts a week which would keep them fresh (and render none of them a “utility” player or expendable).
Swisher may just be the 4th of for one season. However, with Damon, Matsui, and Nady being free agents next season, chances are Swisher will be starting in either left or right in 2010.
Uh, guys…
[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3812007[/url]
Carl Pohlad, owner of the Twins, dies.
bostonians chose not to allow the sox to build fenway’s replacement and the sox dont want to leave boston, so your team is stuck in fenway and will trail the yankees badly in revenue for years to come. this is a choice boston, the sox and thier fans made.
the yankees CAN AFFORD the guys they brought in because of thier amazing revenues. the sox had to give up on thier guy b/c they dont have the revenues to cover the contract obligations.
for a sox fan to come here and cry about the yankees spending is a joke. you wanted to keep your little rat-infested ballyard and now you’re paying for it. this is a choice you bostonians made, now you’re all jelous of the yankees ability to pay for premium talent.
you made your bed, now enjoy waiting in line 2 innings to take a piss.
In the end did Swisher also potentially help the Yankees sign Tex? To an extent yes and can be argued saved them money on the deal as they had a 1B at the time as far as many in baseball were concerned. Certainly the Red Sox must have thought the Yankees won’t have had as much of an interest as they did. And as with the Tex signing, these moves were much more forward thinking that just this year. Look at free agent OFers next year, other than Holliday, nothing beyond the next tier which are Yankees guys. Also having Swisher stops them from giving away a pick to sign one nbext year too.
btw, valentine considers himself the attraction, hes a wanna-be larussa. not fit for pinstripes.
Yes indeed, let’s get rid of Joe G. right now. No more chances, he’s blown it big time. Give him another chance? No way, this is NY, one false step and you’re gone!!!
“Lying” to the vaunted NY press and you are history….don’t waste our time with playing out the next 162, Bobby V should be the new manager, so do it now!!
“Manny might be lucky to get $10mil.”
“If that is the case, believe me, Yanks will jump at him.”
Perhaps, but does Manny’s ego let him take it? This is a guy who bent over backwards to get himself out of a 22mil contract with BOS. How embarrassing will it be for him to have to sign for less than half of that? We’ve seen how Andy’s ego won’t let him take a huge pay cut. I’m 100% sure Manny’s ego is bigger than Andy’s. What are the chances his ego let’s him take a pay cut that large? My guess would be there is zero chance that he does. I think he’d retire first.
uh guys, did you see this?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3812007
Carl Pohlad, owner of the Twins, dies at 93
haha, Brian the Passive Agressive Red Sox fan is reverting to form a bit today. But that doesn’t mean we should replace him with Bobby Valenine – yet.
Brian is afraid that the ’shell game’ is going to end with a parade down the Canyon of Heroes instead of the Canyon of Chowda. That’s understandable, I might be edgy too if my owner and GM had flown down to Texas in a private plane and come back with nothing but tumbleweed dust.
I say relax. 1918 is a thing of the past now and your formidable squad is on par with the Marlins in modern times. I’m sure it’ll be a great season for the rivarly and Theo must have a few more devious tricks up his sleeve or in the private jet, right?
(sorry, I didn’t sleep well)
WSR – When the “taxpayers” build the stadium, the club(s) lease the property, those monies are applied to the cost/maintenence of the stadium, and the “taxpayers” end up owning the asset.
In the Yankees’ case, the “taxpayers” have a big dog in this fight, but the Yankees end up owning the asset.
Admittedly, in the first case, if the lease arrangement is a sweetheart deal, the taxpayers get fleeced there, as well. But at least they own the property.
It can be a dirty business in both scenarios,
Heya Rebecca!
Thanks for checking it out! I haven’t worked on any Gaiman, but he does have a Batman miniseries coming out that I’ll lobby for. I’ve worked on Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Teen Titans, Hellblazer, and various other books.
Checked out your blog yesterday and really dug it as well. Very well written!
-As for Manny, I can’t imagine that his market is dry. This guy is a premier hitter, and he’ll get at least 20mil for 3 years before the HS is done. No doubt.
Manny will get his 20 plus. The only issue will be the length…probably 2 to 3 (at the most). Anything beyond that is Boras doing his “Caifornia Hype” but nobody is buying.
sorry no sympathy for a guy from taxechussets telling new yorkers they’re being fleeced.
Rebecca – “Carl Pohlad, owner of the Twins, dies at 93″
This is not a good year for baseball owners.
Sal – “As for Manny, I can’t imagine that his market is dry. This guy is a premier hitter, and he’ll get at least 20mil for 3 years before the HS is done. No doubt.”
Really? Well, where’s his deal? Tex has been signed already. Pitchers and catchers are already saying goodbye to their wives in prep for next month. If a team were going to pull the trigger on Manny, wouldn’t they have done it already?
Sal: Gaiman doing Batman?
It’s a pity this blog has censors, because I can’t say what I want to say! =D
Thanks for checking mine out!
Keep this Clown as far away from the pinstripes as possible
Laura,
When all is said and done, Manny will get more than the option he left behind with Boston. Remember Dodgers offer was more than option. If he has to defer some money to make it look good, he will do it.
The question will be how many years will he get. If he gets 3 years, he is ahead of the game.
So the Red Sox have decided to forgo a new stadium – and tons of new revenue – because they’re good citizens? Wow, that’s a snow job!
Nick – if you think I’m losing it now, wait until the Yankees sign Manny!
OK, let’s see when the Patriots are playing this weekend …… hmmmm, must be a problem in my TV listings …. must be here somewhere …..
pohlad led the league in revenue sharing dollars not spent on player payroll. he also volunteered his team to be contracted. not one of the great promoters of the game imo.
rest his soul, as for any decent human, but no tears for him as a baseball fan.
Looks like the Idol Carl Pavano is going to the Indians.
Keep Bobby Valentine far away. It would be fake mustache day at every home game.
And I don’t want to wait 3, 4, 5 years for a guy to learn how to manage in the big leagues. Yeah we got 89 wins last year but we should have had more. Injuries happen to every team, that’s a poor excuse. This is a guy who let’s a slumping .200 hitting Melky Cabrera bat away in the bottom of the ninth, down a run, with men on first and second. Gee who saw the double coming? Apparently the announcers where dumbfounded too. Lets not forget about how he approaches LHP’s, or how he rides players through slumps and rests them when they start to hit, or how he left a .240 Jason Giambi in the 5th spot half of the season when our offense performed horrible.
Brian: You sound like my friend’s parents, who are aghast the Patriots aren’t in the playoffs.
I had to explain it to them how it worked, and why the $@$@#$@#$ Dolphins made it in…
Brian,
You spewed so much BS in this thread, I don’t know where to start.
1. You may have worked in a budget office but, you have absolutely no idea about sports financing of projects. None.
The deal the Yankees received (tax free funding for their bonds) is the SAME deal the Red Sox received when they renovated Fenway Park, Bob Kraft received when he built Gillette Stadium, and the Bruins/Celtics got for the new Boston Garden.
In other words, its standard operating procedure in sports to work with local/state governments and issue tax free bonds for stadium/arena projects. The Yankee deal is no different from any other sports finance deal in the marketplace.
How do I know this? My office has done feasability studies and finance deals on 7 arena/stadium projects in the US and the Yankee Stadium deal is the modus operendi in how they are done.
2. They aren’t “co-mingling funds”. Nor can they under the bond rules.
The Yankees don’t have to co-mingle funds to sign players. They generate over 80 million dollars a year from their regional sports network. Add to it an additional 30 million in national TV and radio money AND another 40 million in local radio money, that’s 150 million dollars in revenues ANNUALLY, prior to a ticket, luxury suite or on site ad being sold at the stadium.
Since George Steinbrenner bought the Yankees in 1973, and the FA rules changed, in 1976, the Yankees have ALWAYS been active in free agency.
Also, they have ALWAYS kept their payroll between 28% and 40% annual revenues since the Steinbrenners bought the team. In other words, their spending per capita has not changed ONE IOTA due to the new stadium.
To suggest the Yankees are in essence, breaking the law, to sign players is the most nonsensical thing I have ever seen on this blog. That’s saying something when you factor in the quality of the posts during gamedays.
The Yankees have financial advantages because they generate the most money of any sport in the game. They have also shown over the years not to spend that money intelligently. They also choose to pump a significant part of that money back into the team, as well as pay ALL of the necessary luxury tax and revenue fees due them under the current rules of MLB.
They aren’t breaking ANY rules in the game. Except of course, ticking off fans of other teams.
The Red Sox franchise is currently valued at 1 BILLION dollars. To that end, if John Henry chose to add, say, another 10 million dollars to Mark Teixeira’s offer, you wouldn’t be on here whining and crying about the Yankees.
The Red Sox CHOOSE to keep their payroll at the 130-140 million dollar range. They don’t HAVE to. Do you understand the difference?
The Red Sox bring in between 350-400 million dollars a year in annual revenues. If they choose, they could ramp up their payroll to approx 150-170 million bucks, and still turn a tidy profit. Would you still be crying about the inadequacies in the game if they did so?
If you want to get into the merits of whether state and local governments should offer tax free bonds to private enterprises, that’s a different discussion for a different day.
However, since the State of Mass. has done the EXACT SAME THING as NY State when they financed the Fenway renovation, Gillette Stadium and new Boston Garden deals, I don’t think you want to go there.
It should double play* with the .200 Melky statement
Now that Pettitte is out, do not count Manny out. Sounds fantacy right
Suppose, a big if, that Boras and Manny decide to rehabilitate his image and offer one year 22mil deal (over the option).
Will Yanks refuse it? Obvioulsy they have to trade some one.
ahh missing words and alot of spelling mistakes.. need more coffee.
Brian: you should get yourself a new shirt to celebrate the good times. I got one of these for my Pats-fan cousin for Christmas and you should have seen his face light up.
http://tinyurl.com/7z2xc9
I wonder if Bobby V. will wear his Charlie Chaplin glasses and stache on a regular basis if hired. Then he can take it off when he gets kicked out of the game.
“When all is said and done, Manny will get more than the option he left behind with Boston. Remember Dodgers offer was more than option. If he has to defer some money to make it look good, he will do it.”
That’s what people on here are saying, but I don’t buy it. Why would a team pay Manny 20+mil when there are cheaper, less troubled alternatives to be had?
And who is this team? LAD? They withdrew their offer and haven’t extended another one. WSH? He doesn’t want to play for them and will bag it the whole time. LAA? They said that they aren’t interested. BOS? Not a chance in hell. NYM? They too claim to have no interest. NYY? We’re too broke to find 2mil extra for Andy so I doubt we’ve got 20mil for Manny.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
If swisher turns into a utility guy – which he won’t – the only difference between his situation and lugo’s is that swisher will be making less money and will have trade value and will be easily movable.
That’s it. No other difference other than the cognitive dissonance of those saying its outrageous for the yanks to have a 7m utility guy but perfectly fine for the sox to have an 8m untradable utility guy because its all part of theo’s master plan of genius.
The cognitive dissonance going on here is remarkable.
On other thing on the “co-mingling” of funds issue.
How can the Yankees do that since ALL of the money has already been spent building the new Stadium? They are just making the payments now.
Even if they wanted to do it (which is illegal, and several safeguards are put in place to prevent such a practice) there isn’t any money left for them to do so.
They signed Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira with THEIR OWN MONEY. Which, when last I checked, is legal to do.
Sorry if the truth gets in the way of your conspiracy theories.
Brian,
True, they do end up owning the asset, but they have to pay for it too. With the yankees, they have to pay for everything the leasing team does, plus the cost of the building.
Also, how valuable is that asset? It’s value is mainly derived from having a team there, and the associated revenues the team brings with it from tourism, merchandising, etc. How much is an empty stadium worth?
the City spent it’s money on the supporting infrastructure, like the new subway station. This i’ll give you is a cost born by the taxpayers. but it’s also something that every other city does for their stadiums(infrastructure improvements).
I think you’re setting your sights a little low Pete.
Girardi has to do a lot more than a “postseason appearance” with the additions of Sabathia, Teixeira, and Burnett.
Anything less than a World Series appearance should cost Girardi his job. If he goes out in the first round, they should look for a new guy. And not one that wears a fake mustache and glasses after he gets ejected.
See everyone’s saying NO to Bobby V, but with no reasons.. So far I’ve heard no because of a mustache and other stuff.. Who the hell cares, if he can manage a ball club who cares if he came back from an ejection with a fake mustache on.. I think that’s funny.. And obviously he has a personality..
“To suggest the Yankees are in essence, breaking the law, to sign players is the most nonsensical thing I have ever seen on this blog.”
Just for the record, are you taking into account the brettisgod vs. melkyisgod feud or not?
Pete…are you at the TEX conference?
It is not April Fools day Pete. Or were you just trying to stir up some controversy?
If you thought Girardi was not always straight up with the press, wait until Bobby V starts spinning his web of lies.
Yeah, Nick, good point.
You are off the hook Brian. You posted the second most nonsensical thing ever on this blog.
SJ,
How do you feel about Hughes being our #5 to start the year? Im starting to warm up to it. We should pull the offer from Pettitte and wait till the trade deadline to see how we’re doing and what pieces we need. With his fastball increasing, more control, being healthy and the experience he had in the bigs. I think he will be o.k. this time around. Thoughts?
It’s not that the Yankees don’t have another $2M more for Andy, it’s that they are standing firm (as I believe they should). If they want to make a run at Manny, they will.
Laura,
Someone, maybe Cashman even, will give Manny the money over a Dunn or Abreu because he is a difference maker. He can put a team on his back and take them to the playoffs, he’s proved it. They will look the other way at his antics because he gives you something that no one else can. He has a fear factor that changes teams, and changes the way teams are played against.
Rebecca,
Gaiman on Batman is strange, but I am very curious. Could be interesting. He did some books for Marvel that went over well.
Wait… I predict that the Red Sox are tyring to go one better… they are going to have the entire area surrounding Fenway condemned by the State using the power of eminent domain and given to the Sox so they can build a new Fenway Park Commons. Now that’s innovative financing. Think that’s nuts? Try this story:
http://ij.org/index.php?option.....Itemid=165
Resident Lawyer buffs may want to see the Kelo decision:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/.....vol=04-108
“We’re too broke to find 2mil extra for Andy so I doubt we’ve got 20mil for Manny.”
Laura, the reason Yanks are not giving $2mil extra is not becuse they are broke. They want to change the culture of the declining players holding them up for unreasonable contracts. I uderstand we all have different opinion of what Andy is worth. Still, he should look at what is happening with Giambi and swallow his pride. If not it is his decision and Yanks have nothing do with it as they made a better than fair offer given the current market conditions.
Nick: LMAO.
You know, that would make a great poll.
What’s the most nonsensical thing you’ve read on this blog?
1) brettisgod vs melkyisgod
2) Cashman is the worst GM EVER
3) Oh Noez, Girardi lost a game, fire him!
4) Trade Teixiera when Pujols becomes available!
There’s gotta be more than that….
“The deal the Yankees received (tax free funding for their bonds) is the SAME deal the Red Sox received when they renovated Fenway Park, Bob Kraft received when he built Gillette Stadium, and the Bruins/Celtics got for the new Boston Garden.”
SJ,
Thanks for clarifying this. I was almost certain the fenway renovations involved some kind of indirect public subsidy but wasn’t certain.
I’ve been opposed to the issuing of tax exempt bonds for the new yankee stadium but I’m opposed to it on principal – I don’t think any sports team should get such treatment.
At least the yankees will be paying the bulk of the costs when its all done.
They are going to replace fenway soon and I can’t wait to see what a boondoggle that becomes.
i was actually watching the game when valetine snuck out w/ the fake moustache, it was really hilarious actually. this has nothing to do with why i dont want bobby v.
bobby wants to be larussa, he wants to be called a genious and he goes into a game thinking he has to win the game. for some teams this is the right type of manager not for the yankees.
the yankees pay big money for thier stars and expect them to win the game the yankees need a manager who gives thier big stars the space and conditions they need to win the game.
vanentine’s style would be way over-managing for the yankees. and his humongous ego would clash with other stars. he is the wrong man for the yankees job.
Sal: I think Sandman is DC, if you haven’t, you should read it. It’s flat-out amazing.
“I mean, what happens if Alex is a free agent in 2008 as opposed to 2007? What happens if Alex was a free agent in 2006?”
He would have gotten the same contract he got last year. Premier talent gets premier contracts.
Rebecca
Gaiman is ok, sort of Clive Barker lite.
“What’s the most nonsensical thing you’ve read on this blog?”
I would count all the “Joba is more valuable as the set-up man because of the prime importance of the 8th inning” posts as among the most nonsensical too, but that madness isn’t exclusive to this blog.
Bobby V as Yankee manager.
Manny as a Yankee
Elvis is alive
What’s the most nonsensical thing you’ve read on this blog?
1) brettisgod vs melkyisgod
2) Cashman is the worst GM EVER
3) Oh Noez, Girardi lost a game, fire him!
4) Trade Teixiera when Pujols becomes available!
———————————————
Oh those brettisgod vs. melkyisgod battles. Those two crazy kids..
““What’s the most nonsensical thing you’ve read on this blog?”
RAB’s damonisgod post from the other day was pretty ridiculous. samiam’s was worse but i expect better from RAB than to dismiss the fact that he’s been a failure at CF and melky and gardner are in the lineup b/c of that fact.
“Bobby V as Yankee manager.
Manny as a Yankee
Elvis is alive”
Of the three, Manny as a Yankee has the best odds at probably 0.01%
It is like hitting lottery 
I think you have to add Wang is an Ace/no he isnt, to that list.
SOS,
I’d rather Hughes start the year in AAA. He still needs more time to work on his secondary pitches. If all goes well, I could see him with the Yankees the second half of the season. Sorry Laura, Andy Pettitte is no longer a 12 million dollar a year pitcher.
If he was, he would have taken that “mystery” 3 yr/36 million dollar offer he supposedly had on the table.
Funny how that has vanished, isn’t it?
The Yankees are correctly holding the line on this.
Just look at what #4 starters make around the game. Nobody in that slot makes 10 million dollars.
Its a generous offer. If Pettitte decides he can’t pitch for that amount, and they can’t reach a deal, I’m sure they will fill that slot with a veteran. There will be guys available and they have trade pieces.
In fact, if they are willing to deal Nady or Swisher, I suspect they can find a guy making a lot less than 10 million to fill that role until Hughes is ready to be called up and contribute.
So will someone out there be able to recap the Tex presser for those of us at work?
Posted by SJ:
“Dave,
The corner OF market is what it is. Bobby Abreu is not going to make more money than he would have made had he accepted arbitration with the Yankees. He’s also not going to make a big splash in the market when he signs.
He was expecting to sign a 3 years deal for 48-54 million dollars. He’s not coming anywhere close to that in this marketplace.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? Cashman didn’t make the decision not to offer him arbitration in a vacuum. He knew he would accept. NY is where he wanted to play.
He told enough people that it got back to Cashman. He wasn’t going to run the risk of having him accept arbitration. He knew if he did, it would severely hamper his off-season options.
As far as Sheets, just because you “recently” heard about his shoulder issues doesn’t mean they “just came up”.
You are still under the assumption teams don’t have any more information available to them on players than what it publicly known. That is an incorrect assumption.
Sheets is still on the market because his health doesn’t warrant the kind of money he is looking for. That’s not my opinion. That’s the opinion of the 30 clubs that have passed on him thus far due to his medicals.
As far as Dunn and Abreu are concerned, why is it so difficult for you to see that limited, DH-type players (which both guys are due to their horrific defensive abilities) aren’t going to make huge money in the current marketplace?
Whether you want to believe it or not, there is a Mark Teixeira PC today at the old Yankee Stadium in large part because Brian Cashman didn’t get caught up in losing a draft pick and offer arbitration to a guy (Abreu) who would have accepted it on the spot to stay in NY.”
My post:
SJ,
You actually stated the reason why abreu would not have accepted arbitration in your own post – he was expecting 3 years and 54 mil or somewhere in that range. Why in the world would he have accepted 1 year at 17 mil if he thought he could get three? Especially at his age. Because he loved NY? I hardly think that is enough to turn his back on the possibility of getting one last payday. And while pete posted that abreu’s agent implied he would return if offered arbitration, pete told me this months after the fact and I never saw that little fact once in a single post he made during the arbitration decisions. That would have been a useful fact to post.
I realize the teams may know more than I do. But teams cannot tell the future if they could, we never would have signed wright or pavano so clearly teams with ALL THE INFO dont always make the correct decision. I am not arguing with you that sheets is injury prone or a very big risk – he is and it is obvious to every team as much as it is obvious to me. However, this made his price tag fall dramatically especially due to the timing of the injuries. He is looking for a two year deal now at best. the question is not is sheets injury prone or is his shoulder injured currently? The question is whether or not ben sheets is worth a one or two year deal at 15 mil or less. If his injuries were so substantial that it did not warrant a two year 30 mil deal, why exactly would sheets not accept his arbitration offer? Teams do know aot of info but who knows better about ben sheets extent of an injury more than ben sheets himself and his agent. Both of them believed that with his medical records in hand a team would offer him more than 13-14 mil for one year. If they didnt, he would have taken arbitration for one year and went on the FA next season when his health was better.
Your response to dunn and abreu had nothing to do with anything i said. i NEVER claimed that both or either of them would make big money in the current market. It is clear they will NOT. My point was not what bobby will actually get but what his perception was at the time the arb would have been offered to him. Further, I believe that if milton bradley can get a three year deal with his horrendous track records, giambi can still get 10 mil and burrell can get two years – then dunn and abreu should certainly be able to get more than one year and more than 10 mil. That certainly isnt a stretch. Unless there is significant proof that abreu would have accepted arbitration on the spot by him or his agent (which i have yet to hear) or abreu makes practically nothing next year (and with bradley’s contract i doubt that) it is impossible to conclude that abreu would have accepted arbitration on the spot.
If Pettitte wants to stay away from the Yankees next year, we should just sign a few starting pitchers to minor league contracts and let them duke it out vs the Yankees young pitchers for the fifth spot. Sign a Jason Jennings, Mark Mulder, Odalis Perez, and Mark Prior to minor league contracts w/ spring training invites. I rather have Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves as the 5th starting pitcher in 2009, but you should have some backup options in case one of our young pitchers is either ineffective or hurt in spring training.
As someone suggested in the previous thread, if Nady is traded it should be for a near major league ready SS, who we need in a year when Jeter’s skills will dimish further as defender. Jeter has to move to outfield – LF ?
dave, you should have saved all those electrons or whatever they are you just wasted. abreu would have accepted arbitration and the yankees would be paying him $17M this year and teixeira would be either a red sox or a national.
cashman played his hand correctly, give the man the credit he’s due.
And my original post about sheets was not whether or not he was injured currently but rather if he would be worth signing over pettitte if they both ask for about the same amount of money next year. I think no matter what sheets current status – if he felt like his med records were good enough to decline arbitration for 14 mil, he probably is worth 14 mil next season over giving pettitte 14 mil.
Oh man, some of the stuff people come up with…
Japan Revenue was nonsensical.
“As someone suggested in the previous thread, if Nady is traded it should be for a near major league ready SS”
that Yunel Escobar from the Braves would sure look awesome in ’stripes. But that will never happen. When JJ Hardy becomes a FA in a few years, the Yanks would go hard after him if **somebody in the FO** have the guts to tell Jeter, he’s moving to the OF.
“dave, you should have saved all those electrons or whatever they are you just wasted. abreu would have accepted arbitration and the yankees would be paying him $17M this year ”
I do not think so. The market is what it is today.
When the players were to make the decision on arbitration, it was not dire. How many elite players like Bobby accepted arbitration?
joe im sure that is plan b post andy. open competition between our minor leaguer’s and a few ST invitees will produce a #4 who can get the job done. i think in the end it will be phil use but only after he goes to scranton to start the season. this is definitly not a $10M problem.
Can we please sign Ben Sheets now? I love Andy Pettitte with all my heart. I have love for him I dont have for anyone else in that pitching staff but if he wont take the deal, he wont take the deal. Its time to move on. He’s holding us up at this point. Lets sign Sheets. The guy started the All-Star game THIS YEAR in YANKEE STADIUM. I know he’s been hurt a lot from 2005-2007 but besides those 3 seasons he’s been one of the most durable pitchers in all of baseball. Look at his number of starts any other year. They are all 30+. He has ace stuff. Its a joke he’s even left on the market. We need to take advantage and sign this guy to a 2 or 3 year deal and be set for the next couple of years. Then we still have Hughes and Aceves waiting in the wings as our extra arms. PLEASE CA$HMAN SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!
“if somebody in the FO have the guts to tell Jeter, he’s moving to the OF.”
It will happen. As crazy as it sounds, the pressure will come from the media as his defensive skills deteriorate.
One of my all-time fave nonsensical posts from 2008 came just a week or two ago. A frequent commenter suggested that the Yankees might have made the 2008 postseason if Andy Pettitte hadn’t selfishly kept on pitching hurt when those starts could have gone to “kids” who could have won those games. I was actually going to nominate that as ‘post of the year’ but I didn’t want mel to accuse me of shooting fish in the barrel again (whatever happened to mel? Kidnapped by Charlie Wiess?).
I bet S.A. can guess who I’m talking about.
By the way, love Bobby V and if Girardi doesn’t work out (which I hope he does) then I’d be fine with the mad man taking over.
Brian,
If a Red Sox fan is going to bother to come to a Yankee blog and trash the Yankees, why not at least use some facts?
“the Yankee “options” should be very good …. they now include a $7M/year utility player, who was signed as a starter. Unlike Lugo, he hasn’t even been given a chance to fail ….”
[Wrong. Swisher will make $5.3 million this year and there’s no reason to think he won’t start. There’s a good chance the Yankees will go with Damon or Swisher in center so that they can start in the OF with Nady. If not, he’ll probably start over Nady in right. Either way, he’s definitely a starter after next year.]
“Indeed, if value was actually part of the Yankees business plan, I bet they wish that they’d let Burnett go to the Braves, and were now pursuing Derek Lowe (at his rapidly deflated price).”
[If the Braves signed Burnett, Lowe’s price wouldn’t be deflated at all. There’s a good chance the Yankee would end up signing for him to a contract similar to the one they gave to Burnett.]
“I do understand the current Yankee “plan.” I also understand the Yankee “plan” from the year before. In case you forget, the previous Yankee “plan” stressed patience and dependence upon productivity from the farm system (especially pitching). The present Yankee “plan” is based on impatience and a lack of productivity from the farm system. Prospects are retained because free agents have taken their place, not because they are being counted on. Why the hub-bub over Pettitte? Can’t the farm system provide a fifth starter?”
[If you looked at it objectively, you’d see that the Yankees’ plan from last offseason was based on the free agent market in this offseason. Or is it impossible to believe that a GM other than Epstein thinks ahead? There are 4 players on the 40 man roster that were signed as free agents. At least 2/5ths of the rotation has recently come up from the farm system and Hughes will be joining them soon. 4 of the 5 infield positions came from the farm system, 2 of the 3 outfield positions and the entire bullpen is from the farm as well.]
“my issue with the Swisher acquisition isn’t that he was obtained for spare parts. My issue is the $21M financial obligation for a utility player. This isn’t complicated. The “market” for utility players (or a whole bench, for that matter), is decidedly NOT $7M/year.”
[At most, Swisher could be a utility player for 1 year, and that is only if he and Damon cannot cut it in CF, and he will be paid $5.3million for this season, but why let facts get in your way?]
“Regardless, the Yankees, under Cashman, have drafted a lot of pitchers (often injured) and ignored positon players (like the Detroit Lions’ love affair with first round WRs). The players he deemed ready haven’t been. Cano and Cabrera have regresaed. As a Sox fan, I’m hoping that player development continies to be a Yankee backwater (or we have BIG prob;ems!).”
[You must not know much about football either. There are 5-6 receivers on a 53 man football roster, say 10% of the roster. How many pitchers does a normal team carry on a 25 man roster? Right. I guess maybe your bad analogy could cancel out your bad facts to make a good argument. Say what you will about the Yankee farm system, but it was recently ranked 2 spots behind Boston's farm system.]
Dave,
Abreu would have accepted arbitration for two reasons:
1. He would have made double of what he would have made this season. Peter Greenberg is one of the best agents in the game. He knows the market, knew what it would be this off-season, and knew arbitration would be the best way for him to keep his AAV at a high level.
2. He would have played at his preferred destination. He wanted to be a Yankee. Accepting arbitration would have insured that. There is no way the Yankees would have been able to trade him with an 18 million dollar arbitration number. Teams aren’t willing to pay him 10 million and not lose anything. How would they be able to trade him with an 18 million dollar price tag.
If he had a typical year, he could go back into free agency in 2009 and take his shot. If the economy improves, his options would have improved.
He was going to accept arbitration. There is no doubt about that by the people in the game who know about this stuff. That’s why Cashman didn’t offer it.
If he did, he knew it would severely impact what he could do in the off-season. I know you don’t believe it but, its true. Time and circumstances have borne this out.
As far as Sheets, its simple. His medicals stink. Teams are scared to death of them. His agent, Casey Close, brings his MRI’s to every meeting he has with teams. Admirable for honesty but, it still has scared teams off.
Its why the guy who, if healthy is the second best pitcher in free agency this year, doesn’t yet have a job.
He turned down arbitration from the Brewers because he doesn’t want to be back in Milwaukee.
hamfighter,
If you look at the market as it is currently – yes, abreu may have accepted arbitration. But abreu did not know how the market would shape out. Neither did manny when he left 2 years and 40 mil in boston or sheets when he left 14 mil in milwaukee or many other free agents. Still further, even the current market implies that abreu will get a multiyear deal. At his age, Im sure that is more beneficial to him than a one year contract. One would assume abreu would make more than bradley’s 3 years and 30 mil merely because he has a far better track record. And if giambi is making 8 to 10 mil certainly abreu deserves more than 10 mil just because of his track record.
All I ask is that we wait and see what abreu actually signs for before we declare that cashmans decision was the correct one. There is no proof or pitiful contract that tells me that it was clear abreu would have accepted a one year deal. NONE WHATSOEVER! Find some proof rather than just stating your opinion and your post will have a lot more relevance.
BBFan,
came to think of it, Jeter’s contract ends in a few years right? When his contract ends, Posada’s career would be done as well, Jeter could be the DH if and when Posada is done.
Does any one know when is Tex conference and which channel is carrying it?
… Well it just started on YES.
Mark Teixeria’s press conference now!
Boras has already gotten Manny what his previous agent couldn’t and that is out of Boston. A 2/$40 contract at the location of his choice should be a plus to Manny and Boras. Manny cause he could be where he wants and Boras because he wasn’t getting a dime from Manny’s Boston contract because he wasn’t the agent of record.
It might be written that Boras and Manny took a hit but they will be the ones getting the last laugh.
mlb.com is supposed to carry it. also on justin.tv: http://www.justin.tv/lakerkb
Nick in SF January 6th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
One of my all-time fave nonsensical posts from 2008 came just a week or two ago. A frequent commenter suggested that the Yankees might have made the 2008 postseason if Andy Pettitte hadn’t selfishly kept on pitching hurt when those starts could have gone to “kids” who could have won those games. I was actually going to nominate that as ‘post of the year’ but I didn’t want mel to accuse me of shooting fish in the barrel again (whatever happened to mel? Kidnapped by Charlie Wiess?).
I bet S.A. can guess who I’m talking about.
—————————————————
bbfan, there was plenty of buzz that the market for FA corner OF’s was going to be very soft this season at the time they had to accept or decline. cashman was working on the same information that abreu had available at the time and made the call that the market would be way too soft to make abreu worth $17M, and that bobby’s best play moneywise would be to take the $17M and sit the market out a year. it is possible abreu would have passed on it in search of a multiyear deal, but that would be putting it up to bobby to decide. the yankees wanted to have that money to go after other guys they considered more valuable.
cash was right and he cant even get any love on here for a great read of the market. and like i said, imo if they had offered bobby arbitration we’d have abreu and not teixeira on the team this year, and tex would probably be a sock
Burnett’ wife > Teixeria’s wife
well someone had to start it. lol
I seriously can’t stand that Jene Afterman (reason: Igawa)
P.S. don’t really care if Sterling and Waldman are there, one day I hope we get a real radio tandem.
Darn-it I can’t get the video up.
its Superman
oops I mean Super-Hal.
Go Hal!!!
Well, if that is true Casey Close is a horrible agent. i think the timing of the injuries are building a perception of sheets that was already deviating from reality moreso than the actual extent of the injury but that is just my own opinion. I just find it hard to believe sheets wanted out of milwaukee so badly that he would decline arbitration for 14 mil with a serious shoulder injury in his medical records. He could have easily (if he had a major injury) accepted arb for one year and 14 mil, improved his health and come back to the market next season when it was stronger and his medical records were better. I just find it hard to believe that he wouldnt take that approach no matter how badly he wanted to leave milwaukee if his current status was really that bad. i THINK the perception held by teams are far worse than the reality of the situation. bUT AT some point when his value shrinks to below the price he would have made from arbitration and with the yanks having an open spot in the rotation that he has to be worth the price no matter what his medical records show – especially if it is only on a one year deal or a two year deal laden with incentives.
Pete,
I’ve been reading your blog for years but never made any comments until now. I think your blog is by far the most informative and knowledgeable out there regarding our beloved Yankees, RAB close too! Thanks for putting in the extra time & effort, fans like me truly do appreciate it!
Longtime reader,
Mike Gill
WTF was that …
ouch.. that hurted. lol
brian (red sox fan)-
the yankees financial conspiracy is even worse than you think. rumor is that they asked the federal reserve if they could just print money with jeter’s face on the 100 dollar bill, but the fed said only they could print money.
however the fed had a suggestion. they told the yankees that if they opened up a bank for the people in the bronx and started giving out sub prime mortgages that they could then give the yankee new bank billions of dollars of unregulated tarp funds. since the yankees are too big to fail with the rest of baseball depending on them and would go down like dominoes, the fed is all in on this plan.
you don’t think goldman sachs is a partner for nothing do you?
careful cashmoney!
Brandon what?? I can’t see
Ed – American League, prepared to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!!
January 6th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Burnett’ wife > Teixeria’s wife
well someone had to start it. lol
HEY Marks wife is hotttttttt!
Where is Joe’s daughter?
wow, Teixeira took #25
bye bye giambi shirts hello tex shirts
What number is he wearing??
#25
giambi’s really gone now…
“Brandon what?? I can’t see ”
Bad feedback like a snare shot.
and Yes was smart enough this time to talk over the photo taking so there was not dead air
now I could keep my Giambi jersey. no waste.
are any current players there?
Hmm… #25, lets hope this one pans out.
sensible wife…id take aj’s freaky wife anyday though
How does he look in pinstripes? I cant wait to watch this when I get home
If Teixeira doesn’t get booed for stealing Pepitone’s number, something’s wrong.
Mrs. Tex looks like a brunette Reese Witherspoon.
new thread….
rishi good point im going to the local jersey store and check to see if any giambi shirts are on the discount rack!
theres are few teams that are loaded with SS prospects….we need to start looking at jeters replacement
The Giambi era is officially over.
“sensible wife…id take aj’s freaky wife anyday though”
Doggy style.
(if you guys saw the pic you’d understand)
Teixeira didn’t mention Chien-ming Wang.
i think mr. valentine does have value. the rumor of his 2nd NY-coming has been floated to scare the bejesus (http://www.ics.uci.edu/~abaker/bejesus/what.html) out of the 25-man roster in order that they outperform themselves starting April, 2009 so as to avoid having to experience playing under the aforementioned mr. valentine.
I am not too happy with #25 it seems to have bad luck. I remember in 1996 anyone with 25 had bad luck. Started with Ruben Sierra then Cecil Fielder took it but he struggled and switched #’s with Girardi. It wasn’t so bad for Girardi but then Chris Turner wore it and Giambi. I was always a big Giambi guy but I was hoping Teixera would pick a different number.
Oh well time to buy the Jersey
“Mrs. Tex looks like a brunette Reese Witherspoon.”
Ummm No
Re: Abreu
The people that are saying that he definitely would have accepted arbitration are the same people who said Teixeira definitely wouldn’t be a Yankee. Check out the YES network to see how that one went. There’s a guy in pinstripes behind a microphone that looks just like Teixeira.
“Being a Yankee, there’s nothing better.”
(new Pete post)
“The people that are saying that he definitely would have accepted arbitration are the same people who said Teixeira definitely wouldn’t be a Yankee. Check out the YES network to see how that one went. There’s a guy in pinstripes behind a microphone that looks just like Teixeira.”
this proves nothing.
at all.
“Mrs. Tex looks like a brunette Reese Witherspoon”
from the google image result, i’ll agree…
His bar in Stamford is good–great food, reasonably priced. Check it out if you’re in the area.
Have you ever tried disqus for your commenting system? I been using it but it feels it slows down my website . I am asking this to you since your site has been around for a while and you might be better at this .