Pinch hitting: The Yankees’ Republic
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 06, 2009 
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January is traditionally a slow month for baseball news. So for the second year in a row, we will showcase other blogs with a series of pinch hitters.
Next up is Matthew from The Yankees’ Republic.
Mathew is a published writer and practicing lawyer who lives in New York City. His blog is an always opinionated, frequently fervent, and occasionally insightful collection of rants and musings about his lifelong passion, the New York Yankees. Matt also covers the team for Sportstalkny, an internet show that interviews authors, athletes and reports on New York’s major sports franchises. It is broadcast on Wednesdays at 9 p.m.
Here’s his post:
————
I’m a Jew, New-Jersey born. To this day, however, the only religion I’ve ever believed in doesn’t enshrine a Wall in Jerusalem but a park in the Bronx. The New York Yankees — my religion, my faith, my salvation, my folly and my cross.
Yes, suffering yet another October of dull heartache and desolating withdrawal, shorn of the day’s ritual and consolation, I can succumb to doubt. Isn’t there something pathetic, perverse, even ill, I fret, in an ostensibly grown man surrendering his emotions to the fate of 25 Olympian jocks on a ball field? Isn’t it just a game?
To the rational skeptic, my fervor, no doubt, conjures the stereotype of a David Puddy, Seinfeld’s raving shirtless buffoon decked in team-colored face paint or worse, I evoke a jackbooted, banner-waving, English soccer hooligan. Or maybe, with the glasses, I appear just another pencil-necked, athletically-frustrated, stat geek who worships a sport he can’t play.
More charitably, perhaps, like Fever Pitch’s neurotic, lovable, overgrown adolescent, Ben Wrightman, I simply await the respectable, forbearing girlfriend to save me — to become a man and put away childish things.
“You’ve always loved the Yankees. But have they ever loved you back?” She’d inquire, and suddenly, epiphany would descend.
“My god, honey, you’re right. Heck, forget the Yankees. Let’s go pick china patterns.”
Of course mocking a Hollywood romantic comedy for its facile sentimentality is a bit like chiding John Henry his vain battle with his steam drill, 200 miles to the south.
That is, whether the Yankees requite my love — or pace Sonny Lo Sprecchio’s related insinuation in A Bronx Tale, whether A-Rod’s concern for my career rivals mine for his — isn’t, after all, the relevant question. Undoubtedly, they don’t. No more, for that matter, than does Chazz Palminteri reciprocate my admiration for A Bronx Tale.
Ah, but they repay it, as any art worthy of the name rewards its disciple.
True, a fan’s allegiance may not win him love and nurture, still less honor, glory, or riches, save vicariously. Still, beyond the casual spectator’s entertainment or the professional’s expertise and remuneration, the devoted fan receives what Aristotle once recognized as classical drama’s great satisfaction — emotional catharsis. Or, as the Yankee fan who has been delivered from prolonged agony, resigned despair, or nervous apoplexy by the shocking, momentous, 11th-hour miracle of a Chris Chambliss or Aaron Boone home run to touch near celestial ecstasy — as he might call it, in other words, a more acutely felt, profoundly rewarded engagement with life.
Whether this emotional investment in an agency beyond my control qualifies as godly, I can’t say. What I can swear to, however, is that the Yankees have brought me as close to Divinity as I’ve ever reached. Indeed, first love comes and goes. Passion and desire flag and fade. Youth and adulthood yield to middle age and dotage, and birth hurtles toward death.
But the Yankees — the tribe of Ruth, Gehrig, and DiMaggio, like the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob — the Yankees are forever.
————
Thanks, Matthew. Coming tomorrow: Sean from Yankees Daily.
I’m a North Jersey Jew as well =D
The Yankees might never love me back, but that’s not why I love them in the first place.
Matt, a very well-written post. Thanks for sharing.
For everyone carrying over from last post… Yankees.com has more on the Pettitte rejection. http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
“But the Yankees — the tribe of Ruth, Gehrig, and DiMaggio, like the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob — the Yankees are forever”.
Pete has descendants? Who knew?
Nice writing.
“The Yankees were given indications at the time that Abreu would accept. Bobby very much wanted to stay in NY. His agent, Peter Greenberg, is based in NYC. Cashman does not guess at major decisions.”
Based on all the BS reports that have been out this offseason, don’t you think it’s possible that Greenberg made Cashman think that he would accept arbitration so that Abreu would be a more attractive free agent?
I’m not saying that Abreu would have definitely turned down arbitration. But, I don’t think you can say he definitely would have accepted it based on a rumor from an agent and contracts given out a whole month after his decision had to be made.
Don’t get me wrong. Overall, I’m happy with Cashman’s offseason. IMO, Signing CC and Teixeira were no brainers, and he did a great job getting them. I’m not a big AJ Burnett fan, but I’ll root for him and hope he stays healthy. Swisher was a good trade. Marte should have been offered arbitration. 2 top draft picks for a middle reliever is a no brainer. Even if he accepts, I’d rather have a 30 something reliever on a 1 year deal that a 3 year deal.
Pettitte outright rejected 10 Mil?
OUtright greed, go sign Garland.
Maybe someone can explain to Andy that he pitched well below his $16M salary last year and that he should do the right thing.
And monkeys will fly . . .
(of course Andy will be ok – he has a 3 yr $36M offer according to his agents – and agents NEVER lie)
Or maybe Andy’s just decided to retire…
go to texas andy and watch the homeruns fly out of homerun park or whatever texas’s stadium is called now
At first, your poetic diction was turning me off with this post, but towards the end I could do nothing but relate.
AMEN
ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK YANKEES!
no.27 – i agree. And the strange thing is before pete posted that in the last thread, I hadnt heard any fact like that at all. Maybe I just didnt read any blogs that day but i would think something like that would be said again and again. And even if it is true, that is still certainly not definite proof that abreu actually would have accepted as you said.
I don’t know much about Judaism but is the wisdom of Yogi Berra a good substitute for the wisdom of Solomon? And does the Talmud have an equivalent of Phil Rizzuto?
And Aaron Boone’s HR in 2003 ranks close to Game 6 of the 1996 World Series as my happiest moments as a Yankee fan. Actually those two moments are some of the happiest in my life.
That guy Unnamed Sources really gets around. He has the scoop on every player in baseball. He must be a free-lance writer because he’s quoted in every paper.
Art:
Different kind of wisdom
Guys, I was at the Nets game tonight and I saw someone with a 1998 World Series ring (the real thing) but I couldn’t figure out who it was!
Another thing about sheets and the other team lack of interest – why would sheets turn down arbitration if he had major shoulder issues? hE went on the dl for a very minor injury which would easily heal in time like a hamstring tear. Now rumors are floating around that his shoulder is the main concern – you would think that no one knows sheets better than sheets and his agent. So why would sheets knowing he has a shoulder injury – reject arbitration and then, watch teams look at his med history and express no interest. I just cant buy it – i think this shoulder stuff might have something to it but certainly cannot be serious. And the other thing is – when exactly did this injury occur? During the off season? At no point during his 200 innings of work or after did he go on the dl for any shoulder conerns.
Compliments of MLB-Rumors-R-Us.
Let the dreams begin.
***Cardinals Rumors: Smoltz, Carpenter, Lyon
By Ben Jones [January 5 at 11:53pm CST]
11:53pm: More from Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Strauss suggests GM John Mozeliak hopes to swap an outfielder for a closer-quality arm. Any suggestions***
Rebecca, as one of the few Net fans out there, I’m just excited that you saw someone at the game.
Rebecca:
This should help: http://www.ultimateyankees.com.....0Photo.JPG
OR
http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....#038;t=NYA
(click on every single name that you not familiar with.)
What kind of money does pettitte feel he deserves?
He was horrendous the second half of last year. He is being signed on as a fourth or fifth starter. He was right smack in the middle of a roids scandal last year and the yanks organization stood by him through it all. He is well past his prime and will only remain the same or decline as time goes on most likely and frankly, the yanks dont need him as aceves, coke and hughes could probably put up the same or better numbers than pettitte will next season. The yanks could also just as easily sign ben sheets who would probably be their third starter for less than what pettitte made last season. Finally, pettitte has clearly stated that he only wants to pitch for NY so he is NO leverage in these negotiations.
If pettitte wants to retire – fine but right now, he is just being greedy and not looking so great in the eyes of the fans in the process.
Skippy: When my friends and my brother and I got there, the four of us were seriously THE only people there besides staff.
It filled up to a fairly reasonable crowd, but for that one moment we thought we were gonna have a private basketball game! Oh well!
GB,
Veras and Ramirez would sure do well in the NL. =X
Nets game sounds fun!
(What sport is that?)
Nick – Glad you’re around – I just read your repost in the other thread about your off-season predictions … WELL DONE!! Moose bar for you sir! lol
Ed – American League, prepared to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!!
January 6th, 2009 at 1:15 am
GB,
Veras and Ramirez would sure do well in the NL. =X
———————————————————–
Possibly. That could bring back Schumaker. Not sure that it brings in Ankiel, though. He’d be a corner outfielder playing center field. It would make moving Swisher or Nady necessary, though. I’d rather keep Swisher.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....1033732206
Hey y’all, Check out MLB Network’s Hot Stove crew, Harold Renolds, Joe Magrane, and Mitch Williams, as they preview the AL East….
2 points: Notice what Magrane says about Cito Gaston joining the Blue Jays as manager last season. “One of the things that bothered Cito was the fact that they took” hold your breath now… “too much pitches, trying to pump up that On Base Percentage. He said ‘Guys, swing the bat! Make yourselves dangerous!’”
R U KIDDIN ME?! “TOO MUCH PITCHES??????????” Did I hear correctly? A manager was pissed that his team was takin too many pitches and wearing down opposing starters?!
Wow. That’s the second most ridiculous thing i’ve heard in my life….
What’s THE most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard, you ask? Well, it’s not that far away from the first one… Apparently, one bonehead statement leads to another…
When discussing the Yanks’ big-time pitching additions, the conversation of course shifted towards… You guessed it, Joba needs to be a setup-man!!! The logic, of course, is that now that the Yanks have “enough” pitching, there’s no need to keep Joba in the rotation.
Says Magrane, “If Joba Chamberlain is setting up to Mariano Rivera…that’s gonna make it a lot easier on those starters…” Now get this, “Because I on’t think there’s any way you can have him in the rotation”!!!! And Williams goes “No, [there's no way Joba can be in the rotation] I totally agree with you.”
Ya heard Cashman? Joe Magrane and Mitch Williams don’t let you put Joba in the rotation…
Sick, just plain sick, y’all..
Old-school baseball insanity at its best…
“It would make moving Swisher or Nady necessary, though. I’d rather keep Swisher.”
GB, same here same here. I’m perfectly fine with the OF situation as of now. Just wait for it to play out the situation itself in spring training.
Haha, thanks JoeT. I have enough Moose Bars to get me beyond spring training, I found out that a case is *a lot*, but one more couldn’t hurt. And I’m with you on Phil and Cano!
Oh and pettitte made over 100 million dollars in his 14 year career – what does it matter if he maked 10 or 12 mil next season?
Nice writing. A fun read, actually.
Is the cameron deal completely finished? I like that deal a whole lot more now that we have Tex. I feel like it would add balance to the lineup. Although I am pretty sure gardner will be decent next season – optimistically he could put up 280 330 with 40 to 50 stolen bases and over 100 runs but that is probably his ceiling at this point. Cameron would prolly put up similar avg and obp with 20 stolen bases and 20 homers but he would also take a lot more pitches which remains an underrated statistic IMO.
Nick: Overpriced seats and guy drumming on buckets at halftime?
Rebecca: it sounds like these Nets of yours play in the same league as the Kodo drummers.
http://waswatching.com/ has a good post on the decision to offer abreu arbitration. I agree with his idea that this decision cannot be accessed until abreu is signed. Also, waswactching clearly did not know anything about pete’s info that abreu’s agent made it clear or even implied to the yanks he would accept arbitration based on this post.
**Finally an answer! Cafardo learned that teams can sign as many as nine Type A or B free agents this year. So to all those who emailed: yes, the Yankees can technically sign Manny Ramirez. I tried to decipher the quota section of the Basic Agreement in October, but didn’t come up with nine. **
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....atest.html
I’m more of a nuts and bolts kind of blog reader. Debates about who the 5th starter should be, trade rumors, whose gonna start in CF. I do like a mix of entertainment thrown in at times: movies and music. However, when it leans to artsy and verbose, I’m typically not feeling it. Sorry.
Never saw Andy coming back, you don’t wait months to make a decision and then decide you had a change of heart. 10 million is one thing but 12 million for a 5th starter with a 1.41-1.44 WHIP over the last 3 years is absurd.
Jovani Gallardo has lights out talent. I have an idea, Brewers should really consider putting him in the 7th inning, that inning is so crucial. Nevermind the fact that they’ll be done 2-6 that inning, at least the score won’t get worse.
Oh yeah, heard about this guy David Price? Unbelievable stuff. Man, he would make a lights out lefty specialist.
I really hate that talk….can we stop!
Rebecca: Well, at least Yi came to the game tonight.
Nick-
Got any extra Moose bars you want to send over to my side of the Bay?
Skippy: Indeed.
Buddy: consider it done, although most of my stash is awaiting shipment from North Carolina, pending my brother-in-law getting around to it.
By the way, very nice post, Matthew. But you lose points for referencing the Fever Pitch movie. If you haven’t read the Nick Hornby book, don’t walk, run to get it. Very nice read about the perils of obsessive and sometimes lonely fanhood. And no Red Sox in sight.
hmmm Pettitte for 12 mil or more to be our fifth starter or Ben sheets at 14 – 15 mil to be our third starter…Decisions, decisions. i would be just as annoyed at giving a fifth starter more than 12 mil as i WOULD for the yanks signing pettitte over sheets for almost the exact same price. At his best, sheets is dominant and far better than Burnett. Therefore, he would most likely serve as our third starter. He pitched 200 innings last year and all of this shoulder concerns seem flimsy with no hard evidence to back up any potential shoulder injury going on with sheets other than a lack of interest but abreu and dunn arent getting much interest either and they are both healthy and as consistent as they come.
If sheets’ problems are limited to his elbow which is really his forearm even though media consistently says elbow just to add to the injury prone tag, he is worth the risk. Sign him for 2 years and 30 mil with an incentive laden deal, tell pettitte goodbye and there is our starting rotation: CC, Wang, Sheets, Burnett, Joba – if this rotation can manage to stay healthy for the majority of the season they will be the best in baseball. Esp with hughes, Aceves, coke, kennedy and others to back them up. Even the backups would be significant upgrades to rasner and ponson. And sheets for two years will not block hughes. If he is pitching lights out in triple A, he will start in the majors – its that simple.
I’m befuddled that this could be a money decision for Andy. He is going to leave the Yanks for an extra 2 mil per?
This post was great. Consider me a fan.
Thanks
Al,
I think 12 mil is more a guess than a fact. Who knows exactly what pettitte would need to come back? 13 mil, 14 mil. I think in reaity, he wants the same 16 million he made last season. But the truth is, even 10 mil is too much for a fifth starter – andy should have been thrilled with that offer considering his horrendous second half performance (when throughout his career he has been a second half performer). If pettitte wants to come back to ny, he can come for ten. If not, it was a great ride and he will prolly retire. its up to him and it seems, he has made his decision.
Andy wouldn’t be a 5th starter. That’s Joba.
If Andy thinks he deserves 16 mil in this market I’d like to give him my therapists card
Heck if the Yanks can get Garland for 8-10 per I say give it to him hes younger and eats innings.
Andy is just waiting until the market falls enough that $10 million will be $6 million more than he deserves so he can take it without losing face.
What is the value of Harold Reynolds asking those guys questions? Any idiot can ask the questions, but Reynolds has more baseball knowledge than both of them combined.
Someone needs to clue the mainstream sports media in.
2009 – Joba should start. Posada should catch. Jeter should play shortstop.
2010 – Joba should start. Posada should DH/catch. Jeter should play shortstop.
2011 – Joba should start. Posada should DH. Jeter should play LF.
And while your at it, CC Sabathia performed better than ANY OTHER PITCHER OVER THE PAST 2 YEARS AND JUST HAPPENS TO BE LEFT HANDED. THEREFORE, JOHN LESTER IS NOT THE BEST LEFT HANDER IN THE LEAGUE.
I know these are just stats, but CC had 99 more Ks and 7 less BBs with over 40 more IP. He would have back to back Cy Youngs if he didn’t get traded mid season and what he did to get the Brewers into the playoffs is flat out incredible. John Lester has had ONE season with an ERA under 4.5 and he’s the best left handed pitcher in baseball?
Crack is wack.
1a) CC
1b) Santana
2) Hamels
*Crack is wack.*
lol
andy left the first time becasue his feelings were hurt when the yankees didnt come running after him with a huge money contract fast enough. obviously his pride is standing in the way once again. thats a shame.
wherever he goes, he will be a mercinary, pitching for the money on a team he’d rather not be on. there is no way that will be as satisfying as pitching in YS where he is part of our family.
but apparently his pride is preventing him from seeing that, and just like in houston he is likely to find himself pitching for the cards or dodgers and wishing he were back in NY where he belongs. its regrettable, but what can we do. it seems like he is trying to guilt the yankees into giving him way more $ than he is worth. (randy johnson signed for $8M)
c’mon andy do you really want to end your career this way?
come home.
maybe we could organize a lohud grass-roots campaign to convince andy he needs to come home to the family. do the yankees have a way to forward emails to players if we sent them through the team. (maybe pete can forward them for us?)
Pettitte’s “do I want to or don’t I” drama is starting to get to be reminiscent of the Farve drama with the Packers. Obviously, they finally decided that they had enough, and told Brett to go away. Looks like the Yankees may have had enough of Andy-diva.
I’m not sure what Pettitte’s dig is on declining the offer. Maybe he’s thinking too much about the 37.5% paycut, but given his performance in 08, the current decline in the market, and dropping his spot in the rotation from 2 to 4, it’s a fair offer. I don’t know why some player equate money = respect, but it seems that Pettitte drinks that Kool-Aid too.
Olney on ESPN about the AL East- The addition of Pat Burrell, Matt Joyce and David Price to Tampa makes them the team to beat with the Yankees in 2nd and Boston in 3rd as the teams are currently configured.
Olney says Tampa’s pen has some question marks late yet no one has suggested Price for setup/closer ala Joba. Wonder why?
Even if Pettitte had a 3/36 offer elsewhere, that’s still a $12 mil per deal. Not exactly the $16 mil per he’s looking for. But maybe he’s indicating that 12 is the magic number. I still believe Pettitte signs with the Yanks eventually, but it’s anyone’s guess for how much. My guess is $10 with incentives.
Olney’s a smart guy, and I wouldn’t doubt his assessment. The Yanks – while doing great with their offseason acquisitions, still have several really big question marks.
1) CF
2) the back of the rotation – Pettitte or Hughes or someone else
3) Cano’s return to form
4) Matsui’s return to form
5) Posada’s return to form
Everyone can assume they’ll all be healthy, but at this point, nothing’s certain. But at least the Yanks did enough to plug their biggest concerns in the rotation and 1st base. In this case, only time will tell if the rest is fixed or not.
maybe we’ve been wrong about andy all these years. maybe he was always just a mercinary and only wanted to pitch for the highest bidder. maybe the connection the fans have always felt towards him was always one-way and he was just there for the money.
i hate to think that, but he didnt hesitate to take the money from houston and only came back when the yankees outbid everybody. now apparently an almost career-long love affair the yankees fans have had with andy (EVERYBODY forgave him his hgh lies without question) was one-way all along and the stadium and the pinstripes and the fans mean nothing to him.
one has to wonder if andy realizes what a rejection it is to his legion of fans that he would go pitch for the dodgers for an extra 2 shekels.
to me it would leave a real black mark on his career. at least bernie had to be thrown off the team before he left.
First, Matt, I enjoyed reading your contribution. I find myself wondering at times why do I care so much about these games, this team, a particular player, who have no real impact on my life. And while I like to think i have things in perfect perspective (!), how does one explain having to leave the room and cover one’s ears during the bottom of the ninth inning in a close game with Mariano on the mound, and the awful feeling in the pit of one’s stomach that doesn’t go away until one’s husband tells one that the Yankees won? Or, the totally irrational response to the movie you talked about, the one whose ending I knew, yet couldn’t turn away from it?
It is irrational as my own religion sometimes seems to me (Catholic – Staten Island born). But it goes deep and ultimately faith wins out over reason.
Second -
If Andy doesn’t want $10 million, I’ll take it!
But, all kidding aside, I hope this is simply the opening move to negotiating. I realize on the face of it he looks greedy – but I always thought $10 mil was a tad low, considering all the circumstances. And perhaps, just perhaps, Andy doesn’t really need “incentives.” Maybe if they’re called “bonuses,” though? Again, while they want Andy as a 4th or 5th starter, they’re still expecting him to be a big innings eater who wins games. They want him because usually he’s a big game pitcher. They want him because he is a veteran with playoff experience and success. They want him because he is a Yankee. They want him because he can mentor younger pitchers. It’s not the same with Andy as going out and signing any old veteran to fill a spot in the rotation.
So, I hope they negotiate and come to an agreement.
Frankly, I don’t know who else would be better.
That was one of the most awesome feelings I’ve ever had as a Yankee fan, watching Boone round the bases after beating Boston to go to the World Series. Good post.
A couple of points….
Dave, I have to ask, what are you smoking? Do you really think you need validation from WasWatching to determine Abreu’s market? Its already determined! Ibanez, Burrell and Bradley’s deals are the corner OF deals in this marketplace.
Abreu isn’t getting more money than those guys. In addition, those guys signing with teams that had corner OF issues further shortens his market.
He certainly isn’t getting 17-18 million for this season, which is the entire point of this discussion.
I know some folks are loathe to give Cashman any credit for anything but, he correctly read the marketplace concerning Abreu.
If you need another blogs validation before understanding that, you have no understanding of the current baseball marketplace.
Sheets. Ask yourself this. If the guy was healthy, he’s the #2 FA pitcher available. Yet, he’s STILL ON THE MARKET.
Do you think teams have more information than bloggers? Do you think that possibly his medicals aren’t as good as good agents say they are when they float stories (which blogs pick up) saying that he is “healthy”?
This isn’t rocket science. Teams have more information than ANYBODY. The fact that Ben Sheets is still available should tell you his medicals are scaring teams off from signing him.
Andy? What can you say. Its certainlhy within his right to reject the Yankees offer and shop his services. If he does have a “mystery team” offer of 3/36, he can sign with that team this week and get ready for the season.
If he doesn’t (which I suspect is the case), he has to get real about the current marketplace.
Look at big market pitching staffs and find me guys who are making 10 million as #4 starters. They don’t exist. No matter which way you slice it, that’s where he is currently slotted for the Yankees.
In fact, given his projected slot in the rotation, the Yankee offer is GENEROUS. If he decides to turn it down, its his right, and its also the Yankees right to move on from him.
This is an example of pride getting in the way of good sense. But, what can you do? If you are the Yankees, negotiate with him another week and if no deal can be struck, move on.
ham_fighters -
I always thought that the first time Andy left, that the Yankees weren’t aggressive enough in their pursuit of him – that they took it for granted that he would sign with them. However, I know they also had some concerns about his elbow at the time, so perhaps there was more to their dragging their feet at the time. I also think the fan assumed Andy would be back the first time, too. A lot of assumptions. Certainly Pettitte is more complicated than he seems. And certainly, Pettitte is into the money aspect, because money in sports equals love and respect.
See in this case, I can understand a bit – on every free agent signing the Yankees completed this off-season, it seemed like they threw in a few million more than they originally offered, just to seal the deal. I can understand Pettitte saying, what’s another $2 million for me? (That is assuming he’d accept a $12 mlllion offer.) But if he’s holding out for closer to $16 million, well, that’s another thing altogether.
Great article. Good work.
As far as Olney, he has an opinion like everybody else. A more educated opinion but, an opinion just the same.
One thing folks are omitting when discussing Tampa is the “Expectation Factor”. They can no longer sneak up on anybody and the toughest thing in the world to do is live up to high expectations. Ask the Yankees about that since 2001.
A lot of things broke right for the Rays last year. Pitching health being one of them.
Its very possible they could be a better team this year, have a worse record, and miss the playoffs.
Its the beauty of sports. Predictions really mean nothing. Still have to go out and play the games.
SJ44 -
I think with Andy and the $10 million that what gets in the way is the fact that Andy is a Yankee looking to re-sign with his own team. There’s history, there’s sentimentality, there’s a lot going on under the surface emotionally. I realize baseball is a business and decisions like this need to be made more calculatingly (word?), but you can’t ignore the human element. If Andy was never a Yankee, and thus never had all those intangible ties, I think he and his agents could accept $10 million from the Yankees in line with what you’re saying is the market for the position the Yankees want him to fill. But because he’s staying, I think it might be difficult, at least for him, to make that division, that “divorce,” so to speak, from what he WAS to what he is being hired to be now.
Although, I do stand by my statement that the Yankees expect more of him as a 4th or 5th starter than they might an “outsider.”
I also think that on the Yankees the expectations from a 4th and 5th starter are quite a bit higher than on many teams. I think the Yankees are wanting to put together a pitching staff where every start gives you the opportunity to win. Unlike last season where 3 out of the 5 starts was an “I hope we can win” situation, or “we can win IF he has a really good start.”
Just one more thought on Andy Pettitte. I would love for him to come to terms with the Yankees. But so much time has gone by that there has been the opportunity to reflect on “life without Andy,” so it won’t be such a shock if he doesn’t return. Unlike last time. Then, it will be, okay, who’s the next best option?
Pettites not the first guy to come across greedy, but after listening to him talk about pitching in the new stadium, after the yankees sticking by him last year, and in this market …. 10million for an aging lefty seems very fair to show some loayalty
Thanks for the memories, but you left once already so enjoy Texas or whereever else you end up – I hope they give the 5th spot to someone within
Andy P is a fraud and a drug cheat…..move on already cashman
give Mark Prior a minor league deal. trade Nady or Swisher for a starter
Doreen,
The history factor with the Yankees is why he is getting another 2 million bucks.
Tim Wakefield, who has as much (or more) history with the Red Sox than Andy with the Yankees, is the Sox #4 starter. His expectations are innings and a lot of them. Similar to what Andy’s expectations are with the Yankees in 2009.
He’s getting 8 million. Andy’s offer is bigger and, at this point of their respective careers, their expectations are the same.
10 million has always been a fair offer to him, for what his responsibilities are for the 2009 season. Especially since he was hurt and ineffective for most of the second half of last year.
Its his right to turn it down and its the Yankees right to move on. I just don’t buy the “Yankees have been unfair with him” angle.
Unlike last year, when Pettitte told the Yankees AFTER his signed about his HGH issues, the Yankees have been upfront with him from Day One about this offer.
Something he needs to think about as he mulls over his options for 2009.
joel sherman had a great point about tampa yesterday am on xm, i was driving so im not sure the exact figure he gave but the tampa starting five started something like 153 of the rays games last year. that is very rare and never happens 2 years in a row. most teams end up using the 8th, 9th, and 10th pitchers on thier depth charts at some time during the season but tampa barely scratched the surface of thier pitching depth.
now i realize people are going to say that they have all this great pitching talent in thier minors and that david price would have been next up, but lets remember that young arms have potential but are in the minors for a reason. hughes and kennedy show that.
next season the rays will have a more normal pitching season and will be forced to put thier darrel rasners into the rotation for weeks at a time and the results of those games could determine the ray’s finish.
They will work out a deal with Pettitte. I don’t care what the media is reporting these days.
This deal makes too much sense for both sides not to happen.
They didn’t have any problem giving a ridiculous amount of money to AJ Burnett – a guy who has pitched 200 + IP a grand total of 3 times in 9 seasons – so I don’t get the hard line stance against Pettitte over a couple of million.
Offer him $12M and get it done. They need him back to stabilize the back of the rotation and their other options are rather scary (Sheets, Perez, Harang, Arroyo, Wolf, and Washburn).
ham-fighters,
On the new MLB channel they were talking about that also. They said that Tampa had the “perfect storm” last year. Talked about Tampa’s starting 5 and the amount of injuries that the Yankees and Sox had which may have kept their win totals down. Also now the Rays have a target on their back and won’t “surprise anyone.”
imo $12M is at least 30% above his value.
im getting kinda sick of this Pettite situation . .enough is enough .. Yanks should move on to Sheets . Smoltz or Olie Perez . . Personally i’d like Perez
imo $12M is at least 30% above his value.
————–
That may or may not be true, but why are they penny-pinching now?
They just spent $420M+ and three players and now they’re squawking about a couple of million?
Pettitte could be the key to this team having the best rotation in baseball in 2009 or they could be a Burnett DL stint away from having Hughes and Kennedy/Aceves taking up the #4 and #5 slots.
Hey matt, if you want some insight, read Nick Hornby’s novel Febver pitch, the source for the lame hollywood movie you refer to.
Guiseppe Franco –
The difference is simple . .Sabathia and Burnett ( at this point in there careers) are better than Pettite and deserve more money .
Pettite although i love him was a cheat and doesn’t deserve 16 or 12 million per season . . Heck he isn’t even worth 10 million ..
Here’s a thought – do the Yankees think Pettitte’s shoulder problems last season are worse than is generally known and that’s why they’re offer is considerably less than last year? Or was it just a minor inflammation that should be completely healed and a non-factor at this point?
Or – is it just that now he’s a 4th starter and his ego can’t take it…
probably the last one.
SJ44 -
Please understand – I do not think the Yankees are being unfair with their offer. But I think if it’s $2 million that’s standing in the way of completing their rotation the way they want it, they should just bite the bullet. I realize it would be more than Andy could get on the open market, but in a way, it’s not an open market. I also think Wakefield has the potential of not being as effective as Pettitte, plus Boston has a history of paying their own a little lower.
If they are done with Pettitte, whoever else they sign is going to cost them $12 million, IMO, and it might not be so easy to get someone else to sign on for just one year. To me, Sheets is not an option because of the question marks (huge) surrounding his health, and you could end up getting nothing out of him. Who else is on the market that would sign for 1 year and $12 million or less?
Again, making the assumption Andy would say yes to 12, which at this point is probably a large assumption.
Pettite although i love him was a cheat and doesn’t deserve 16 or 12 million per season . . Heck he isn’t even worth 10 million ..
—————
Burnett doesn’t deserve $82M – so what’s your point?
He’s always been an underachiever most of his career but they spent that kind of dough on him anyways.
Being better than Pettitte at this stage in his career doesn’t make him worth $82M over 5 years.
If they want to beat the Rays and Red Sox, they must have a better rotation and overall pitching depth than either team.
Pettitte would provide that depth better than any other option available.
if smoltz is healthy and is going to start, i want him on my team. the guy is money and tough as nails. for all the talk about the ‘big 3′ atlanta pitchers, i always expected glavin and maddux to fold in the big game, but not smoltz. the guy is an intense professional
also i think smoltz could help aj burnett out alot on our staff, smoltz has suffered several injuries but has always been able to adjust and take the ball and give the team what they needed. burnett is just learning how to do that.
i dont think ny is smoltz’s kind of town, but if he can be had and he’s healthy, i say go get him.
Nonetheless, I think all this talk is a moot point because they’ll probably end up resigning him anyways.
Guys like Smoltz and Sheets are way too much of a gamble. They already have a high risk / high upside guy with Burnett.
What they need now is a veteran on a one-year deal who is most likely to churn out 200 IP given the health concerns of Burnett, Joba, and perhaps Wang too after last season’s freak injury.
No more high risk/high reward starters. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
guisseppe (and andy) when you are young or in the middle of your career and your stuff is at its peak, you get huge money. andy got his huge money from the yankees and from the astros and from the yankees again. older guys who were on thier way down the depth charts didnt cry when andy signed for humongous money, thats just the way it goes.
the huge contracts you sign in mid career set you up for life (and your kids and grandkids lives) then you finish out on smaller but still big one or two year contracts and get what you can. someday aj will be working year-to-year and making less than half what he’s making now, but its his time to cash in.
if andy still thinks he’s in the humongous contract time of his career, then he has to pitch like it. he wanted a shorter contract and then underperformed in his walk year. that’s his bad luck. if he wants to give it a go for 3 or 4 more years, he has to show that he’s not in the end of career decline his 2nd half #’s from last year might indicate. otherwise he has to accept that hes no longer an ace and sign for the insulting and mimiscule amount of $10M ).
Guiseppe Franco
His point, Guiseppe, was that Pettitte is a liar and a cheat who deceived the Yankees last year by signing a contract and not disclosing the Mitchell investigation.
Clear enough for you?
Smoltz may not be ready to pitch until May or June. Not seeing that as a great option. He has had two elbow and now two shoulder surgeries in his career.
He’s the ultimate gamer but, that’s WAY too many surgeries for a guy his age to come back from and be effective.
If they don’t re-sign Pettitte, and there are no cheaper options on the market, this will be Hughes’ final shot at winning (and keeping) a rotation spot as a Yankee.
I agree with Guiseppe though. It makes too much sense for the Yankees and Pettitte not to come to some sort of agreement. Although, as we have seen in the past, the sensible thing doesn’t always happen when it comes to making deals.
i understand the iffy medical condition of smoltz. i was just really commenting on how much respect i have for the man. a guy who toughs it out and gives his all for the team and can perform at his peak on the biggest stage is always a guy i want on my team.
i hope the guy signs anywhere other than boston and comes back 100%. id hate to see an injury bring him down in the end after all he’s fought through.
I don’t think the Yanks are “sqwuaking” at a couple million. From what I’ve read, they pay market value for players. Currently, for a #4 starter, the value is probably in the $6-8 mil range and IMO, are overpaying for Andy’s services. Teix, CC, and AJ were paid market value (or porbably slightly over) but these are top tier talent your getting. Andy is not an ace. He was never a Cy Young candidate. Nor did he ever lead the league in SO, ERA or WHIP. He was a good Yankee (so far) – and that’s why he’s getting the $10 mil offer. I don’t think they should go above $10 mil for a #4 starter. If he wants to equate money with respect then he’s in for a rude awakening unfortuately.
Andy is just as big a injury risk as signing a Sheets,Smoltz etc
Sheets is an ace…Andy stunk the bronx up last season
time to move on….let andy rot in texas,houston or la for less than 10mil
unfortu*n*ately…
guisseppe – I think you over hyping Pettite a little too much . . The Yanks over -paid for Burnett and CC. i’ll give you that .. But like i said the upside of having that one two punch far outwieghed what they were going to pay for them. The Yankees NEEDED Burnett and CC . . they dont really need Pettite
Pettite also has NO leverage .. Theres no real market for Pettite .. Maybe Houston Atlanta or Texas.. Plus the Yankees stood by Petitte with the HGH saga.. The Yankees can move on with someone different . grab another starter through a trade or via free agency . Its not the end of the world.
Look if we sign Pettite great .. lets move on . . but if we don’t its not the end of the world
Would adding incentives be considered by Andy as something that is insulting? Guaranteed money versus earning it? If he can go out and prove to himself and the Yanks that he can still be effective, and if he has that much ego, then I don’t see why the Yanks don’t offer him $10 mil with incentives to hit $12 or $14 mil if he starts 30 games, wins 16 or 17 of them, etc… but considering that he turned down $10 because he’s insulted and believes he’s worth $16, then this option probably is moot.
pettitte is crapping on all the yankees fans who have given thier unquestioning acceptance and love over the years. the guy is a ped cheat and it has barely tarnished his reputation a bit, because he’s so beloved by yankees fans.
but apparently all this love means nothing to him and he has no intention of pitching for us at the insulting rate of $294,117.65 per start.
everything has a price tag and you know, he’s gotta feed his family…
also think the yankees need to get away from these drug cheats. now Giambi’s gone, this kid Sergio Mitre just been suspened for 50 games.release him straight away i say
move on from the drug cheat Andy too.the Yankees stood by him and now he acts like a spoilt brat
Man up Cashman…and send Andy packing
well, golly gee…$10 million? shucks thats not even worth gettin outta bed fer….
Do you understand the issues surrounding Mitre’s case? If you did, you wouldn’t be so quick to call him a “drug cheat”.
He bought a LEGAL supplement at a GNC store in Florida last August that contained a banned substance NOT found on the label of the bottle.
He’s taken full responsibility for his actions and will serve out the suspension while rehabbing his elbow injury.
That’s not a “drug cheat”. Its another example of the problems all sports face with legal supplements not containing what’s really in their bottles.
worst case – a combo of Hughes, Giese, Aceves, Kennedy, maybe Coke, Horne for 4th starter. Andy looked like he was done last year – best to move on. If a vet reliable IP eater can’t be found then we at least have a lot of depth with the kids (some of who are not kids – Aceves, Giese)
The Yankees NEEDED Burnett and CC . . they dont really need Pettite
————–
That’s where you are dead wrong. I had no problem with the Sabathia signing, but Burnett is a big gamble.
And for that reason, the Yanks need to make sure they assemble a rotation that is better than their rivals – which means resigning Pettitte.
Injuries WILL happen. That’s a guarantee. If they don’t resign Pettitte and they stick Hughes in the #5 slot – they are just one Burnett DL stint away from having Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation.
That’s not a good plan and it’s a huge gamble. Resigning Pettitte gives them another guy who will pitch 200 IP and keep Hughes in the minors for the meantime.
They’ve got a chance to go for the jugular. Don’t penny-pinch now.
SJ44
sorry no excuses these days…these athletes in all sports no how careful they have to be.and double check what there putting in there system
release him
i think Hughes, Giese, Aceves & Kennedy will be adequate at #’s 5 through 8 on the depth chart, but they look alot better at #’s 6 through 9 (where they have to fight it out for mlb starts)
oops, im still channeling pettitte…
SJ …. Tim Wakefield signed a perpetual club option for $4M per year. You had an earlier post stating that he received $8M.
Re: Cashman evaluating the corner OF market (specifically, Abreu’s value). If he was so prescient on that matter, why did he trade prospects for a 1B/OF with a 3 year tab of about $7M/year? And that 1B/OF is now a spare part/utility player. You can’t give him credit for guessing that Abreu would only be worth $8Myear, then claim that the Swisher trade was good value.
GreenBeret7 Mister anonymous gets around as well.
http://www.fannation.com/blogs.....istant-one
ESPN ran a story yesterday saying that an Anonymous Jets player said that Brett Favre was distant from the rest of the team and spent most of his time in a private office alone. Anonymous went on to say that Favre should have been benched during his 3 interception performance in week 16, and the team can’t be all about one person. The news goes to further illustrate just how fast things went from good to sour in New York after the team started the year 8-3.
But Favre is not taking the news lying down, and in a press conference today disputed these allegations, saying that Anonymous was actually the one who was distant from the team, and that people barely even knew who he was.
“I don’t even remember playing with this guy,” said Favre. “I remember Laveranues Coles, Thomas Jones, but I can’t remember Anonymous even showing up for team meetings. If you want to look at someone to blame for our failures down the stretch, you can look right to him. I threw 20 incompletions in that last game, but at least 15 of those were to Anonymous, and he didn’t come down with a single one. It’s like he wasn’t even out there on the field.”
Indeed, other players are struggling to remember their teammate at all. “Anonymous…It’s not ringing a bell,” said Nick Mangold. “Is he french or something?”
Analysts are jumping all over the latest comments from Anonymous. “This guy is just a locker room cancer,” said ESPN’s Trey Wingo. “People really get on Terrell Owens and Randy Moss for things they say after tough losses, but it’s actually Anonymous who is the worst. Every time you hear really damaging stuff, it’s from this guy. At least they contribute on the field. Anonymous has never even made a pro bowl. The Jets need to cut ties with him during the offseason and move on.”
SJ …. Tim Wakefield signed a perpetual club option for $4M per year. You had an earlier post stating that he receives $8M.
how is nady a spare part? he’s our right fielder!
SJ,
I posted the waswatching.com post not only to validate my point but to prove that even some writers are following the same line of thinking that the signings of bradley, burrell amd giambi dont neseccarily mean not offering arb to abreu was a good decision and that we should at the very least wait to see what abreu gets before praising cashman for all his genius. I give credit when and where credit is due to cashman and i dont feel like these signings accurately reflect what abreu would have decided on the yanks offer. That is not an unreasonable assumption.
Again, as i pointed out before – abreu and dunn who are two of the better hitters on the market this off season after tex are still on the market. Manny is still on the market. as are multiple other quality free agents. I realize sheets has not been signed by any team but neither have any of them. Does that mean those three are inconsistent, risky or have a poor health record? NO IT DOESNT. And this shoulder issue pretty much came up out of thin air as he went on the dl in the last couple of weeks of the season for a muscle tear whicih had nothing to do with his shoulder. This shoulder talk has just come up recently. I realize when sheets is healthy, he is a number 3 starter but that doesnt mean he has to be picked up by now. Teams perception is that he is a major risk which means he isnt the same as a number three starter who has no risk attached. But manny could be the best hitter on a team, abreu could be a number 3 hitter on any team and dunn could be a number 4 hitter on any team and NONE OF THEM ARE SIGNED. Just because a player is still on the market doesnt mean they are no good or not worth signing. If sheets was completely healthy with no risk attached we wouldnt be able to get him for 2 year or 15 mil per but because there is so much floating around about him both are possible. I think with that kind of price tag his risk because worth it.
Brian,
At the time the Yanks were out on Tex. They got a 1B/corner OF in Swisher for spare parts. They only came back in on Tex when the Redsox and Angels didn’t close the deal.
SJ44, Tim Wakefield is actually only making $4 million this year, the same amount he’s made since 2006. $10 million is more than fair for Pettitte. I doubt he can get that much from any other team in the league.
Brian (Red Sox Fan)
Your Swisher reference is not logical. Cashman obviously signed him to play first base, as they did not believe they would get Tex. In fact Tex is a Yankee only because John Henry screwed up the negotiation. As you well know.
That’s where you are dead wrong. I had no problem with the Sabathia signing, but Burnett is a big gamble.
And for that reason, the Yanks need to make sure they assemble a rotation that is better than their rivals – which means resigning Pettitte.
Injuries WILL happen. That’s a guarantee. If they don’t resign Pettitte and they stick Hughes in the #5 slot – they are just one Burnett DL stint away from having Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation.
That’s not a good plan and it’s a huge gamble. Resigning Pettitte gives them another guy who will pitch 200 IP and keep Hughes in the minors for the meantime.
They’ve got a chance to go for the jugular. Don’t penny-pinch now.
LOL. look at Phillie’s rotation the 08 world champs.you make signing an HGH less injury prone greedy Andy Pettitte vital to 09.Phil Hughes will light it up in this year.he is the answer
Exactly what does a steady innings eater like Jon Garland have to do in order to get noticed ?
i will never get over what a train-wreck favre is making of the jets, its hilarious. he tanked them this season and is holding the entire franchise and coaching search up with his will-i-or-wont-i-retire act, just like he did with Green Bay.
i thought the jets as a franchise were on the way up, despite last years dissapointment, then they sold thier soul to favre and he’s repaying them by blowing up the entire thing.
now they’ll end up with a 2nd tier coach brought in to make favre happy and then brett will be gone next season. the following season the coach they brought in for brett will be fired and the franchise will have wasted 3 years for this prima donna.
im not anti jets, they are like a little bro to the G-Men, but how bad is the mess they’ve created now? its unbelieveable.
Sorry …. I somehow did a duplicate/sort-of-double-post ….. maybe a payback from the drug-filled ’60s.
LOL. look at Phillie’s rotation the 08 world champs.you make signing an HGH less injury prone greedy Andy Pettitte vital to 09.Phil Hughes will light it up in this year.he is the answer
———–
Is that right? You mean the guy who missed three months of the season and who couldn’t win a single game all of 2008 is now going to “light it up” this year?
Sounds logical. BTW, that kind of logic is part of the reason why this team was in huge trouble at the end of April last season.
Hey, I like Hughes as much as the next guy. But they cannot rely on him just yet. If he stays healthy for a full season and continues to progress – I’d have no problem giving him a starting slot in 2010.
But he has to prove himself first and actually stay healthy. He hasn’t done that yet.
we call that a flashback man!
flashbacks are groovy!
VRSCE …. I guess the Yankees have so much money that they trade for AND sign two First Basemen in the same off-season (getting the first in case they can’t get the other)? I didn’t see that strategy in “Moneyball.”
i agree that this season will be phil u’s coming-out party. but id still like to see him start as the #6 and have to fight his way up to the bigs.
people who think phil’s last season, at the tender age of 22 means he will never make it as an mlb pitcher just dont get it. he’s got the goods and he will show it this year.
i say he starts in scranton but ends up winning 12 games for the bombers.
Guiseppe Franco
ive seen Hughes pitch when he 1st started in the minors.the Hughes weve seen in the bigs aint the the real Phil Hughes.we have seen flashes,he had a few mechanical issues and injuries etc.
but typical fans are too impatient,the kid is still young
like i said Hughes will light it up in 09
ive seen Hughes pitch when he 1st started in the minors.the Hughes weve seen in the bigs aint the the real Phil Hughes.we have seen flashes,he had a few mechanical issues and injuries etc.
——————
I’ve seen Hughes pitch, too. Good for you.
We don’t disagree that Hughes does has the tools to be a very good major league pitcher.
But he hasn’t progressed like he should have given that he missed more than half the 2007 season and again in 2008.
If he can’t stay healthy enough to take the mound every five days, he can’t work on refining his game and his secondary pitches like the new cutter.
They just can’t count on him right now given his recent track record. That doesn’t mean we won’t get there eventually.
Nice post Matthew.
Happy Teixeira Tuesday everyone!
If Wakefield is only making 4 million, that further illustrates the point that the Yankees offer to Pettitte is more than fair.
Dave,
The corner OF market is what it is. Bobby Abreu is not going to make more money than he would have made had he accepted arbitration with the Yankees. He’s also not going to make a big splash in the market when he signs.
He was expecting to sign a 3 years deal for 48-54 million dollars. He’s not coming anywhere close to that in this marketplace.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? Cashman didn’t make the decision not to offer him arbitration in a vacuum. He knew he would accept. NY is where he wanted to play.
He told enough people that it got back to Cashman. He wasn’t going to run the risk of having him accept arbitration. He knew if he did, it would severely hamper his off-season options.
As far as Sheets, just because you “recently” heard about his shoulder issues doesn’t mean they “just came up”.
You are still under the assumption teams don’t have any more information available to them on players than what it publicly known. That is an incorrect assumption.
Sheets is still on the market because his health doesn’t warrant the kind of money he is looking for. That’s not my opinion. That’s the opinion of the 30 clubs that have passed on him thus far due to his medicals.
As far as Dunn and Abreu are concerned, why is it so difficult for you to see that limited, DH-type players (which both guys are due to their horrific defensive abilities) aren’t going to make huge money in the current marketplace?
Whether you want to believe it or not, there is a Mark Teixeira PC today at the old Yankee Stadium in large part because Brian Cashman didn’t get caught up in losing a draft pick and offer arbitration to a guy (Abreu) who would have accepted it on the spot to stay in NY.
Brian,
As others have pointed out, the Swisher move, (a good trade given who they gave up) was made to upgrade first base AND to give them more versatility in their lineup.
When Boston couldn’t close the deal with Teixeira, the Yankees saw the opening and took advantage of it.
That gives the Yankees MORE options. How is that a bad thing?
If they need a starter (should Pettitte not return), they could move either Swisher or Nady and get one.
If they just want to stand pat, and have quality depth for a change, they can do so.
Its the GM’s job to make his team as versatile and flexible as possible. Hard to criticize Cashman for trading for Swisher and signing Tex, since it accomplished both goals.
Andy needs to get over this ‘pay cut’ thing. It’s 10 Million Dollars. It’s not like working for $85,000 and dropping to $50,000. I like Andy but i hope the Yankees make an example out of him. Garland is out there for less than $10M and can be that 4th starter for 2-3 years.
the game is changing in the post ped era. this is reflected in the fact that teams want more than offensive stats out of the guys they throw out in the field. versatility, atheletic ability and defense are regaining some of thier former luster and one dimensional older players are passe. a look at the yankees of the past 2-3 years points this out, a team full of offensive guys couldnt hang with the younger, more atheletic rays.
manny, abreu, dunn and giambi are all going to sign for significantly less than they made last season or at least for fewer years and dollars than they expected when thier walk years began.
the yankees would have had to offer abreu a minimum of $17M in arbitration because of the 80% rule. there is no way abreu is going to come within $5M of that figure in aav wherever he signs.
i believe cash money had that right.
Garland is out there for less than $10M and can be that 4th starter for 2-3 years.
———-
They don’t need Garland for 2-3 years. They need a one-year stopgap until Hughes is ready to take over that slot.
That’s why Pettitte is preferable.
“As far as Dunn and Abreu are concerned, why is it so difficult for you to see that limited, DH-type players (which both guys are due to their *horrific defensive abilities*) aren’t going to make huge money in the current marketplace?”
This is blatantly false. Abreu’s defensive abilities are not horrific. In fact, he has a very strong arm in RF. Is he cautious going back on fly balls? Yes. But that policy has served him well, hasn’t it? When was the last time he did time on the DL?
“Andy needs to get over this ‘pay cut’ thing.”
No, Cash needs to up his offer to 12mil. I bet Pettitte would go for that.
Swisher also is a classic case of buying low. Think Scottt Brosius. I absolutely believe he will vastly out perform Nady this year. Nady lit up the first half for the Pirates but he really hasn’t played everyday until last season. Look at his Yankees numbers – actually not that good. I think there is a good chance he has a bad year and ends up platooning. Having depth is never a bad thing. Going into the year with 4 corner OFers for 2 spots and a DH is not bad because almost certainly someone gets hurt or slumps badly. Also, you will not be able to trade any of them for anything in this market where Burrel’s can be had for 50 cents on the dollar.
“Andy needs to get over this ‘pay cut’ thing. It’s 10 Million Dollars. It’s not like working for $85,000 and dropping to $50,000. I like Andy but i hope the Yankees make an example out of him. Garland is out there for less than $10M and can be that 4th starter for 2-3 years.”
well, shucks, i’m an ace! my buddy rocket says i should get $16 million and only pitch fer 3 months! (HE’S IN THE BOOTH!!!) golly i caint hardly see working fer peanuts like that!”
Sheets might take a 1yr deal?
Chance to win a championship.rebuild his value and see what the market is like in 2010
Laura,
Every defensive metric last year had Abreu pegged as the worst OF in the AL. He was one of the worst defensive players in the game last year.
When CB comes on, he can once again post his defensive rating. Its not pretty.
Its a big reason why he can’t get a deal right now. He is too much of a liability in the OF and teams aren’t willing to pony up the bucks, despite his offensive skills.
Matthew,
I love the Yankees too and follow them “religiously”, but it’s only baseball. It is entertainment, like a good movie or a book. I recently suffered my second heart attack and maybe that helped me put things in perspective a bit. Enjoy the games and the stories, but try and make it just a small part of your life, not your entire life. Peace.
Tim Sherman
Sheets might take a 1yr deal?
————-
This isn’t Las Vegas. He’s way too much of a gamble when you’ve already got an injury prone guy like Burnett in the rotation.
They took two major gambles with the rotation last season (Hughes and Kennedy) and lost big time.
no way pettitte is worth $12M. the yankees have to learn how to deal better with thier aging stars as they decline. they are going to have to deal with jeter soon, too. they caved on posada but he had such a great walk year they had no choice really. past glory is great and these guys are worth more to the yankees because of marketing, but paying guys who are passing thier prime as if they are still studs has to stop somewhere.
the yankees need a #4 innings guy. they will pay someone at a reasonable #4 level. andy apparently thinks he’s a #2 and he may be a #2 for some nl team if he chooses, but the yankees arent in the market for that.
SJ …. the Yankee “options” should be very good …. they now include a $7M/year utility player, who was signed as a starter. Unlike Lugo, he hasn’t even been given a chance to fail ….
And the Yankees’ “swooping in” on Teixeira implies that the amrket had dried up/fallen apart. The market never really moved, but the Yankees obviously changed their minds while things languished …. something like buying that new, state-of-the art driver while browsing through the pro shop for the fourth time.
I guess my point is that(1) the Yankees have had an excellent off-season, but (2) there was no particular plan (outside of throwing LOTS of $$ at pitching – is that a “plan?”).
Indeed, if value was actually part of the Yankees business plan, I bet they wish that they’d let Burnett go to the Braves, and were now pursuing Derek Lowe (at his rapidly deflated price).
Up the offer to $12 mil? Why?
Andy Pettitte was grossly overpayed last season. $10 M for a 4th starter is more than enough, and someone used Wakefield as an example. Back end rotation guy, solid every year, roughly the same ERA and record as Pettitte, and well below $10 Mil / Year.
At this point Andy “Brett Favre” Pettitte will probably get booed no matter if he comes back or not. The first homerun he gives up, the Stadium will bring the boos down on him.
Guiseppe Franco
January 6th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Sheets might take a 1yr deal?
——————-
This isn’t Las Vegas. He’s way too much of a gamble when you’ve already got an injury prone guy like Burnett in the rotation.
They took two major gambles with the rotation last season (Hughes and Kennedy) and lost big time.
People are putting too much on this whole Kennedy and Hughes thing…Hughes had a busted rib,hardly arm problems or tommy john. Andy/Moose and Wang where meant to carry this team.Wang got injured
Rays gambled with a young rotation and it worked out for them,thats sport
everyone is injury prone…jeez CC’s arm could fall off after his Scot Proctor treatment the last couple of seasons
Indeed, if value was actually part of the Yankees business plan, I bet they wish that they’d let Burnett go to the Braves, and were now pursuing Derek Lowe (at his rapidly deflated price).
Lowe’s price wouldnt be declining if the Yankees were still in the market. This all proves the Yankees are being used to drive the market up. They get out of the bidding, and offers drop quicker than a drunk sorority girl’s at a frat party.
Just a slightly different perspective on the Sheets as a gamble issue.
Now as SJ has pointed out ad nauseum it is about the medicals. But assuming that Sheets can throw maybe 20 games is it worth it to the Yankees to try to get him on the one year deal?
My logic would be Sheets’ value for 20 games is probably better than some stop gaps for 30 games. If you had to replace about 10-15 of Sheets starts that is where Hughes, Aceves et al come in. It is likely that Sheets will start out healthy and then deteriorate. That will give Hughes some time in the minors to be prepared. If Hughes is not ready go with Aceves for a few more starts and then look at Hughes.
The only problem is two injuries simultaneously. If Burnett and Sheets, or Burnett and CC, or CC and Sheets, are out at the same time than you are stuck with Joba, Hughes, Aceves – probably not what you want. Realistically, in this day and age just about every pitcher is an injury risk. Pettite is an injury risk as well and chances are on a per start basis Sheets is more valuable than Pettite.
offers drop quicker than a drunk sorority girl’s pants at a frat party.
“This is blatantly false. Abreu’s defensive abilities are not horrific. In fact, he has a very strong arm in RF. Is he cautious going back on fly balls? Yes. But that policy has served him well, hasn’t it?”
Clueless. Absolutely clueless.
brian, the money is wowing you away from what the plan is. the plan is to aquire top notch mlb talent without giving up our prospects. thats why we passed on santana and waited for cc.
its okay though, you dont have to understand the plan, your team just has to beat it.
im not one of those people that think the yankees have anything sewn up b/c they signed some studs. i do think we greatly improved our team and gave up no propsects in doing so.
that was the plan all along.
Nice piece Matthew.
Take that 10 million Pettitte turned down, drive to Montoursville, PA and see if Mussina will take it. Extremely unlikely, I know. But, maybe Moose will come back for one more with an increased chance to win a ring.
People are putting too much on this whole Kennedy and Hughes thing…Hughes had a busted rib,hardly arm problems or tommy john. Andy/Moose and Wang where meant to carry this team.Wang got injured
Rays gambled with a young rotation and it worked out for them,thats sport
everyone is injury prone…jeez CC’s arm could fall off after his Scot Proctor treatment the last couple of seasons
——————–
Sheets probably has the second best repertoire of any FA pitcher – but has a history of health issues and his medicals must be really bad for so many teams running away from him.
And you’re comparing the Yanks of ’09 and Rays of ’08?
One team is expected to win every year and the other team had never won more than 70 games in a season.
Not exactly the same thing.
“At this point Andy “Brett Favre” Pettitte will probably get booed no matter if he comes back or not. The first homerun he gives up, the Stadium will bring the boos down on him.”
this is so not true. last season after he admited ped usage and lied then had to admit his lie and more ped usage and yet when i suggested on this blog that i would boo him when he took the mound for the first time last year, i was universally scorned. he was welcome back with open arms without question.
if he comes back he will regain his place as one of the most beloved yankees and nobody will remember this tempest.
Guiseppe Franco makes a good point about Garland tying up a spot for 2-3 years.
But I think Pettitte is a luxury not a necessity, as I’ve been saying all along. Yeah Hughes and Kennedy imploded last year. Everyone remembers it, there’s no reason to rehash it.
But you have to think out of Aceves, Cokes, Hughes, Kennedy ONE of them will be able to step up and fill the 5th starter role. If not, you can always acquire a starter mid-season like Washburn or some other average guy who eata innings.
Overpaying for Pettitte would be a big mistake IMO.
If Andy is out of the picture ( I still think something will be worked out)and if the NYY want to give PH, IPK & AA more AAA time, they could always look at Paul Byrd as a veteran innings eater. Since 2005 he has averaged about 190 IP with an ERA ranging between 3.74 and 4.88. He would make a good 1 year stopgap (he’s 38) and would probably cost a lot less that the $10MM Andy rejected.
no offense but leave moose in motoursville, let andy stay in houston and find a #4.
rodg12 i like that idea. Had Mussina not retired, i bet he would have taken $10 Mil and he wouldnt provide the annual Pettitte saga we have to sit through every season.
Did Favre like playing for the Jets?
Maybe a move to the Rangers will force Andy to retire next season. Like i said yesterday, put him at the Ballpark in Arlington and watch the homeruns fly.
It’s not that big of a gamble on Sheets on 1 year deal if you are planning to use Hughes/Aceves for the final spot anyway. Give Sheets a shot, he’s a little more healthy than Bedard, Penny and you can catch lightning in a bottle.
And you’re comparing the Yanks of ‘09 and Rays of ‘08?
One team is expected to win every year and the other team had never won more than 70 games in a season.
Not exactly the same thing
———
who’s comparing…can you read?
Joba is still a question mark until he plays a full season, so making one of the other young guys the 5th starter is no different than last year with Hughes and Kennedy. Let them come up in May and beyond as the 6th starters or if someone gets hurt. Burnett is our oldest pitcher now at 32 right? We can deal with one older innings eater like Garland, Byrd, etc. I dont think the Yankees need to continue playing this game with Andy Pettitte.
No on Sheets. If a 4th starter is to be signed it needs to be a veteran IP eater who has a good health history. We already have risks in AJ and Joba and to a degree Wang. We need a solid 200+ IP eater. If Lowe can be had for around 12 Mil then do that over Andy P.
I think people are simplifying this Abreu arbitration deal. There are also some misconceptions about the arbitration process. Abreu could have gotten a pay cut higher than 20%. That rule only applies to arbitration cases where the player is under the team’s control like in the situation of Melky Cabrera or Ryan Howard. Also, no one has found any credible sources addressing the process of cutting a player with an arbitration contract. From the quotes Cashman had on here, and Abraham’s explanation, it seemed like it wasn’t a difficult process.
It is clear that Abreu isn’t going to get a deal worth more per year than he would have gotten in arbitration. Considering what other corner outfielders are getting, it would have been a mistake to pass up the 1 year deal. That doesn’t mean he would have taken it though. On December 7th, when he would have had to make his decision, no one thought free agents would be signing for this little. Players and agents overvalue their worth all the time, just look at the Andy Pettitte situation.
Bottome line: It isn’t as cut and dry as people are making it out to be. Cashman was uncomfortable risking the money to get the picks. If it was up to me, I would have offered Marte arbitration, and he would have declined. I also wouldn’t have traded for Swisher until Abreu’s situation played out. Marte + Swisher = $9.3mil, then look to trade Nady if Abreu accepts.
Andy Petitte is really being a jerk. He doesn’t deserve even 10 million for one year, and he owes it to the Yanks after they stuck with him through the whole HGH ordeal. If he thinks he can get that mystery 3/36 offer go right ahead. I am all for Franchise Phil being our 5th starter. I have had it with these ballplayers acting like this,its ridiculous, if you really wanted to be a Yankee so bad you would of signed immediately. Nice Post Matthew, very well written, good job.
you’d have to pay moose based on 20 wins plus extra to lure him out of retirement. so id say the bill would be over $16M
im sorry but i dont think moose is going to give them that kind of performance. you would be paying him for last season.
My co-worker just told me the Yankees need to be more like the Rays. Don’t spend, just develop. I had to remind him that part of why the Yankees spend so much is because being so good every year means we dont get to pick up the first draft pick. If we end up in last place for 10 years straight, we will have 10 high draft picks. Remember Tampa had to suck for 10 years to put a good team out there.
I digress, let Pettitte take that non-existent 3/39 deal the Dodgers supposedly offered. Someone needs to slap the Hendricks brothers and remind them they are NOT Scott Boras.
Wang is not a risk. One slip around 3rd base in an NL game after you went 8-2 and an ERA around 3.00 and suddenly he is a risk. When he develops some sort of arm injury, then he will be a risk.
Brian,
Really, what are you talking about?
The Yankees off-season plan was to add 3 starting pitchers. They added two and are working on a third.
The Braves were willing to pay Burnett 80 million dollars over 5 years. Its not like he had 20 million dollar offers and the Yankees decided to go crazy.
Sabathia? The Brewers and Giants were ready to go to 125 million for him. The Yankees KNEW they had to overpay to get him because his #1 priority was not the Yankees.
What’s the problem with that? Would they have gotten “credit” from you in walking away from Sabathia over money?
As far as Swisher is concerned, they got him for nothing. He’s only 27, and gives them versatility they haven’t had in years off the bench. Why is that a problem?
With all their spending, they are still UNDER last year’s payroll, and have a younger, more athletic, and better team.
Again, what’s the problem with that?
While we are on the subject, what exactly is the Red Sox “plan”? They walked away from the guy their resident shill, Peter Gammons, has said has been their “#1 priority for 3 years”.
They walked away over 10 million bucks. Since then, they gave 5 million to Brad Penny, a oft injured pitcher.
They currently have no catcher. They are concerned enough with the health of Lowell and Ortiz to have gone after Tex.
Over 10 million dollars, nothing money for a big market team, especially since they just gave away 5 of it to Penny (whatever happened to the vaunted Red Sox pitching prospects in the minors), they lost the best everyday player in the FA marketplace.
If I were you, I’d more concerned with the Red Sox “plan”, than the Yankees plan. Seems to me, at least at this juncture, the Red Sox “plan” was to sign Tex and they didn’t do it.
Now, its onto Plan B for them.
“I am all for Franchise Phil being our 5th starter.”
We gave Phil the ball last season. His results were, shall we say, disappointing.
We need a 5th starter who is going to eat innings. That’s Andy. Phil will get used either to spell Joba (who will be on an innings limitation) or AJ (who may or may not stay healthy).
Ham Fighters ….. I do understand the current Yankee “plan.” I also understand the Yankee “plan” from the year before. In case you forget, the previous Yankee “plan” stressed patience and dependence upon productivity from the farm system (especially pitching).
The present Yankee “plan” is based on impatience and a lack of productivity from the farm system. Prospects are retained because free agents have taken their place, not because they are being counted on.
Why the hub-bub over Pettitte? Can’t the farm system provide a fifth starter?
Let me emphasize that I wish the Yankees had stayed with the first plan …. what they’re doing now makes them formidable. But don’t portray it as some savvy strategy. It’s just rich people buying whatever strikes their eye.
Speaking of rich people, I just read that Jon Henry’s hedge funds had a boom 2008 (must have timed the market). So why didn’t he sign Teixeira????
*sob*
who’s comparing…can you read?
—————–
These are your words:
“Rays gambled with a young rotation and it worked out for them,thats sport”
The Rays didn’t “gamble” on anything. That was their team and they didn’t have any alternatives.
And they never won anything prior to last season.
Comparing the Rays going into 2008 is not a viable comparison to the Yanks now.
“Every defensive metric last year had Abreu pegged as the worst OF in the AL. He was one of the worst defensive players in the game last year.”
SJ44, the metrics have been posted here several times. I understand that on paper, Abreu sucked. However, I watched 99% of Yankees games last season and in my opinion, Abreu is getting a raw deal and is being unfairly criticized.
One last point on the “all the Yankees do is spend money” angle.
When you are dealing with free agents, that’s what you do, spend money. Money is what it takes to sign them.
When the Red Sox missed the playoffs in 2006, they spent over 200 million dollars (counting posting fees) to upgrade their roster with free agents.
Funny, I never heard any complaints from Red Sox fans saying, “All Theo is doing is spending money”.
We all were told how “brilliant” he was for doing so.
Also, weren’t the Red Sox willing to “spend money” to the tune of 170 million dollars for Mark Teixeira? If they signed him, would you complain that Theo was “just spending money” or would you have lauded the signing?
Bottom line, the Yankees have money (as do the Red Sox) and they spent it to upgrade their team.
Still trying to see what the problem is with that.
Bravo Matthew, I loved it! It touched a nerve for me, for when after a bad loss and I’m furious/cursing/ranting, my wife says “they’re still millionaires at the end of the day”.
That does not help!
Alright, assume Pettitte’s out and Moose can’t be convinced to come back. For the 4 spot you’re looking at:
Sheets – big time injury risk. Probably can get him on a 1 yr deal.
R. Wolf – injury risk. Stunk for Pads, pitched well for Stros. Transitioning from NL to AL.
Garland – NO!!!! Numbers declining last couple years. Was awful last year. 4.90 ERA/1.51 WHIP.
Byrd – Probably cheap. AL experience. Would eat innings. Has tendency to get rocked.
Looper – Probably innings eater. Buying after Duncan worked magic is usually not a good thing.
Pedro – Intriguing possibility. Would need to learn to pitch with less stuff ala Moose. Injury risk. Has AL experience. Might start fight in clubhouse with Posada.
Not very good options. I say Pedro is probably my choice of them just to stick it to Boston a little and on the chance he can learn to pitch with less (although still good) stuff. Best option is to trade a young arm and maybe an OF to get the #4.
the rays could of got a couple of vets.to say there was no alternatives is rubbish.but they went with the kids.which is a gamble.and it payed off for them. they also had no injuries which all teams pray for
be interesting to see how there rotation holds up this year
Here’s some hot news for those that believe anything written. Something new to consider. Nady and Swisher are probably dropping hints that they are unhappy with possible reduced laying time and have demanded a trade. The ungreatful dogs. Info that I recived from Anonymous Source and his brother Unnamed Source.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....akes-sense
***Yankees’ Nady, Swisher in play
Nick Swisher might not be a Yankee for long. The signing of free agent Mark Teixeira eliminated any chance of Swisher playing first base, and the team’s outfield surplus almost certainly will lead to a trade***
***Both Swisher and Xavier Nady are drawing significant interest, according to major-league sources. The Yankees are not in a rush to trade either; their only desire is to make the best possible deal***
***The versatility of both players is appealing; Nady plays both outfield corners and first base, while Swisher plays all three outfield positions and first***
***Nady, 30, is a free agent after next season. Swisher, 28, is signed through 2011 with a club option for ’12. Either would be more affordable to the Giants than Ramirez. Swisher also would fit for the Braves and Pirates***
SJ …. my issue with the Swisher acquisition isn’t that he was obtained for spare parts. My issue is the $21M financial obligation for a utility player.
This isn’t complicated. The “market” for utility players (or a whole bench, for that matter), is decidedly NOT $7M/year.
It is easy to “plan” when you have 60% more to spend then your nearest competitors. Swisher was a salary dump for the White Sox. The Yankees can afford to put him on the bench, and preen about how they are still “under last year’s payroll.”
To have the four highest contracts in baseball, and still come in “under last year’s payroll,” is as laudable as the Department of Defense coming in “under last year’s Budget” after the conclusion of the Vietnam War. Even a caveman could do it ….
If you have to trade one, trade Nady. The Giants want him too. Maybe they can work something out for Jonathan Sanchez, a good young lefty. Rough year but endless potential.
Laura,
Abreu was awful defensively last year. Balls dropped in RF that average OF’s would have caught. He cost them games in RF last year.
Even Yankee pitchers were complaining to Girardi about his play in RF last year.
It wasn’t from lack of effort. It was just that his skills were declining and it hurt the team.
Watching the games on TV doesn’t always give an accurate indicator of defensive play.
I saw a lot of balls drop in RF at games I attended that Paul O’Neill, for example, would have had in his hip pocket.
If Abreu could have played at least passable defense, they probably would have considered keeping him.
Unfortunately, his defense is a big reason why they didn’t keep him and why he is having trouble finding a gig right now.
Brian,
From 2000-2005, Brian Cashman had no input in the Yankee farm system and it eroded terribly. They just started rebuilding the farm system in 2006, when he got full control over the farm system.
If you want an accurate indicator as to where they are at, look at the Trenton and Charleston teams in AA and A ball. There are legitimate prospects on those teams.
Look at the kids in the Dominican League, who will be in A Ball in the States this summer. Several more kids, who will be interesting to watch, will be on those rosters.
Those are kids drafted/signed from 2006-2008.
They now have the chance to develop instead of being rushed to the majors.
In fact, nothing has changed from Cashman’s plan of building more from within. When you are a major market team, your minor league system serves two purposes. One, to develop guys to help you at the big league level. Two, to develop guys and trade them for help at the big league level.
They were able to get Nady, Marte and Swisher in trades involving minor leaguers and only gave up one high level prospect. Even that prospect (Tabata) is shaky in regard to his ceiling.
The rest of their A List prospects, Melancon, Hughes, Montero, Brackman, Jackson, etc, all have the chance to develop without being rushed.
Again, what’s the problem with that? Sounds like a plan to me.
“Nady and Swisher are probably dropping hints that they are unhappy with possible reduced laying time and have demanded a trade.”
Trade both of them and sign Abreu to play RF.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
“I saw a lot of balls drop in RF at games I attended that Paul O’Neill, for example, would have had in his hip pocket.”
I agree with this. It did appear to me that Bobby let balls drop in front of him that others probably would have caught.
Again Brian, why do you care so much about what the Yankees spend? Its not your money, its theirs.
Spending doesn’t guarantee anything. Their job is to put the best possible team on the field. Even with their spending, their payroll is still lower in 2009 than it was in 2008.
When they got Swisher, the intention was to play him at first base. Then, the Sox screwed up (over 10 million dollars) and kept Tex on the market. The Yankees signed him. That’s on Boston, not NY.
Now, the Yankees have a surplus of players and perhaps some trade opportunities. Again, the problem with that is what, exactly?
I’d more concerned about the Red Sox than the Yankees. For all the whining about the Yankees spending, their payroll is still less in 2009 than it was last year and will be less in 2010 than it was in 2009.
Again, sounds like a plan to me. Just because you don’t like the plan, doesn’t mean its not a plan.
Laura
January 6th, 2009 at 10:26 am
“Nady and Swisher are probably dropping hints that they are unhappy with possible reduced laying time and have demanded a trade.”
Trade both of them and sign Abreu to play RF.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
————————————————————
Something that we finally agree on. Abreu would be so happy to rejoin the Yanks that he’d sign for 10 cents on the dollar. The other two are money grubbing liars and probable steroid cheaters.
Swisher is not a bench player. He is a switch hitter with power and a .380+ OBP that can play all 3 OF positions and 1B. He will start most games. Nady is more likely a platoon bench guy – he should go if anyone goes. Also Tex, Wang was hurt and missed significant time in 2005 and missed the start of 07 as well with a pulled hammy. He gets hurt often.
yes boston looks average…Ortiz is finished with no Manny.Lowell’s fluke year is a distant memory.Varitek is an automatic out.
they better hope Pedroia and Youkilis can repeat there amazing years
I can understand why both Swisher and Nady are upset over reduced playing time
Nady is playing for a contract
Swisher was jerked around by Guillen last year….and wants to establish himself
However, if they both shut-up and play their best they have a chance to win a WS
With the Yankees outfield prospects for 2010..Swisher can expect a full-time position…and the Yanks may look at keeping Nady over signing Holliday (or he can justify a nice contract for himself)
Whats wrong with these guys?
SJ – I join Randy 1 in identifying the inherent contradiction in the way Cashman apologists let him have the best of both worlds. (1) “Cashman had nothing to do with the underperforming farm system until 2006,” but (2) “he was an integral contributor to the prior championship teams (with their farm-based core).” Can’t have it both ways …..
Regardless, the Yankees, under Cashman, have drafted a lot of pitchers (often injured) and ignored positon players (like the Detroit Lions’ love affair with first round WRs). The players he deemed ready haven’t been. Cano and Cabrera have regresaed. As a Sox fan, I’m hoping that player development continies to be a Yankee backwater (or we have BIG prob;ems!).
If Cashman didn’t have 60% more to spend then everyone else, I’m not sure what skill set he brings. World Championships are subject to the vagaries of short series. But it seems as though a 60% payroll advantage should produce the best regular season record every year.
Trade Nady and try get a SS prospect
rebecca, i’m curious who that was with the ring.
i was in atlantic city once and played either 5 or 10 dollar blackjack next to a guy with 74 A’s ring. never figured out who he was. i should’ve just asked him when i had the chance. i guess i was afraid i’d insult him by not recognizing him.
test…
Where are “they” saying anything?
Don’t react to every kneejerk rumor out there.
Nady and Swisher have said NOTHING publicly about their status.
If they do, and you don’t like what they said, then complain.
Right now, complaining over comments that neither guy is quoted directly as saying seems a bit foolish to me.
Good work SJ 44. Putting a Boston fan in their place is a gem. Lurking on this board exposes a Boston fan for possessing an inferiority complex.
There is a reason why Yanks are being firm with Andy. Soon, they have to deal with Jeter situation.
They are offering slightly better than market value to Andy and they want to stay with that principle for the future as well. Yanks have always paid their players well and above market value for thier current production, but still these greedy players hold them up during their declining years (Posada?). I think yanks are changing that culture moving forward.
As much as I like Andy like many here, now that he is not on PEDS, he will break down in the second half. In fact, in the past few years he was good in the second half as he was on the PEDS. When he left for Astros, Yanks concern was his elbow and PEDS helped him overcome that.
Also, as I stated many days back, I believe that Yanks want to start in the new stadium without any known drug cheats. They made an exception for Andy because of the history and he blew it. I do not see him coming back and I am alright with it.
Now, Andy not coming is not the end of the world. I think they will go with the youngsters and see for a couple of months how it shapes up. If it does not work out, then they will trade thier surplus outfielder to get a good 4/5 pitcher. Many good ones will be available as salary dumps in the mid-season.
In 2 years the Jeter contract situation may get ugly, especially if he is in decline and at around 2950 hits.
you sox fans wouldnt let your team build fenway’s replacement and will remain well behind the yankees in revenue for years to come. thats a decision that boston made, now you have to live with the results of that decision. the yankees HAVE the money to spend on the guys we have, whether you like that or not. the sox could have rivaled the yankees in revenue with a new ballpark but bostonians apparently like to wait 2 inning to take a piss.
thats the bed you made for youselves, too bad.
Yes Hughes was disappointing but now he isn’t guaranteed anything and as a 5th starter the pressure wont be on him like it was last year. Give him a chance to develop and succeed, when healthy he has pitched some good games, the last game he pitched in Toronto last yr, the playoffs in 07,the no hitter before getting hurt in texas.
Cashman needs to stick to the plan . The Yankees wanted to sign 3 pitchers . so lets sign 3 . Pettite doesn’t want to come back . Fine . Sheets . Perez . Smoltz . Wolf
Finish the job Cash !
*MAMA MIA!!!!!*
I’m a RI-born Catholic, and I do attend mass always – and I fervently attempt to adhere to the Ten Commandments given to Moses the Jew on Mt. Horeb, the first commandment being: I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
HOWEVER, since we all know that God is a Yankee fan, I feel I am always given dispensation to worship at the throne of the Yankees, located at the most storied earthly cathedral of all – the Cathedral in the Bronx.
Matthew – as you come as a messenger of that celestial team, I bow to thee. Just a WONDERFUL post!
Having spent many high holidays listening to and watching playoff and series games, all I can say is Zei Gezundt — and go Yankees!
One of the best pieces of writing I’ve ever read. It reminds me of why I’m a fan.