A few random Friday thoughts …
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 09, 2009 
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First off, much applause for today’s guest blogger, Mike. His pinch-hit post was everything a pinch-hit post is supposed to be: focused, informative, concise and opinionated. Good job.
The pinch-hitter series will run through the end of the month and a few days in February. I’m working on a few special guests as well. Will Carroll has said he wants to join in.
Meanwhile …
Finally saw Gran Torino yesterday. The fact that Clint Eastwood became a great director has to be one of the pop-culture upsets of all time. Clint was an entertaining tough-guy actor and now has this immense second career as a director. He and Opie Taylor, who would have ever guessed?
As for the film, it’s a simple story told well. Clint is an old-school retiree who befriends the Hmong family next door against the local gang. It’s a classic Western theme set in modern-day Detroit. I try not to read too much about films before I see them so as not to have any preconceived notions. Went back today and found that the Asian kids were all first-time actors. Pretty amazing.
Next on the list: Frost/Nixon.
BCS title game: Talk about a letdown. Instead of a shootout, we got interceptions, bad coaching (take the points, Bob Stoop) and great defense. Tim Tebow is a great college player but I still can’t tell whether he has the arm to play in the NFL. It remains befuddling to me that Division I football remains the only sport in the NCAA without a playoff. A final four of Florida, Texas, USC and Utah would be a lot of fun.
NFL playoffs: Why the Giants favored by only four points? They’ve had a week off to get healthy, the Plaxico mess is behind them and their defense will smother the Eagles. … The Cardinals are not a good team. Panthers big. … The Chargers are a hard team to figure but Darren Sproles won’t be Gale Sayers again. I’ll take the Steelers at home in January. … I really want to like the Ravens. But a rookie QB from Delaware in a playoff game on the road? Have to take the Titans.
Yankees: Aside from the on-going Andy Pettitte drama, it’ll be interesting to see if Brian Cashman deals Xavier Nady or Nick Swisher before spring training. I get the sense that they really like Swisher and want to keep him around. Nady will be a free agent after this season and with Boras as his agent, you know he’ll walk.
Has anybody used one of those services that ships luggage ahead for you? I need to take two bags to spring training and it would be much easier to send the larger suitcase ahead. Any ideas?
The guest posts will continue over the weekend. I’ll chip in here or there, but hope to get some time away. Stay warm.
Pete,
If you’re flying united they have a service. I’ve used it, it’s easy and it works. My bags were in my room before i got there. It’s not really cheap though. If lohud’s picking up the tab, go for it.
Thanks for a great blog.
pete: You could possibly try Mailboxes or a UPS store.
For all the international travelling I’ve done, and I’ve done quite a bit, I tend to pack light so it’s never much of an issue.
Pete-
We actually just use Fedex. Prices are more reasonable than any service I’ve been able to find, at least here in L.A. And we haven’t had a problem yet.
FedEx my friend. Bill it to LoHud’s account.
So far this offseason I’ve seen at least 3 baseball writers-Sheehan, Neyer, and Law-call Nady a good 4th of’er.
In our family we FedEx stuff for cross-country visits and since they pick up it is door-to-door easy. So far nothing’s ever been lost or late, though we don’t try for super-narrow margins. Haven’t done it any other way so have no idea how cost compares with other options. Ever since airports became such a big pain and airlines made baggage such a hassle, anything that makes travel a little easier is much prized by me and mine.
I hate to sound like Brandon here, but what was the point of the Nady deal if they are just going to deal him again? It’s not like Cash didn’t know what his contract situation was before he made the deal. It could be that he wants Nady gone so that they can get Holliday next year. Holliday could play LF and Swisher would man RF (this assumes they don’t re-up with Damon). Wouldn’t it be cool if we stole Holliday from BOS? That would make two steals in a row.
KEEP DAMON AND SWISHER.
We’ll need them in the event of an injury or bad play from Gardner/Cabrera.
SWISHER IN LF/CF, DAMON in CF/LF, and NADY in RF for one year won’t kill us.
Gardner is a 4th OF, used to spell the above 3.
Matsui is DH, and emergency LF.
Pete
FedEx Ground is the answer. Don’t even need a box- use a lock on the bag, the address it’s going to on the ID tag and they just slap the Fed Ex label on it.
Ya got what 10 tshirts and 3 pairs of shorts?
Just buy new ones at Wal-Mart – it’ll be cheaper
“SWISHER IN LF/CF, DAMON in CF/LF, and NADY in RF for one year won’t kill us.”
Swisher will not see any time in CF. By his own admission, that is his worst position.
I like that Clint plays an old man that says “Get off my lawn”, convincing!
Pete,
Just wear everything you want to ship on the plane.
Grand Torino was an excellent movie. I saw it over Christmas. It is NOT for anyone easily offended. Pete I am also shocked to learn they were all first time actors, they did an excellent job.
>>Swisher will not see any time in CF. By his own admission, that is his worst position.
And that’s fine. But there will be times he will be out there I guarantee you, and even Damon out there for this last year of his contract is not as bad as people make it out to be.
Thanks for the kind words, Pete.
“And that’s fine. But there will be times he will be out there I guarantee you, and even Damon out there for this last year of his contract is not as bad as people make it out to be.”
Damon can still run balls down out there. It’s his arm that’s the problem.
This tidbit from MLBTR is quite telling:
“Before signing with the Rays for two years and $16MM, Pat Burrell was getting offers in the one-year, $5MM range.”
drive yourself pete. it’s not like a 3 game road trip to 1 city. you’ll be there quite a few weeks. i’d think having your own car would be nice and you won’t have to worry about your luggage at all.
What are we planning to do for RF if we deal Nady? Are we planning on putting Jeter there? Sidney Ponson? And have we learned yet how we are replacing Abreu and Giambi? Ok, I guess we’ve replaced one of them, say Giambi, but we haven’t replaced both.
I really think we should sign both Abreu and Manny.
I’m guessing that Nady and Boras won’t be too happy if he has to share time in the outfield.
It would definitely hurt his value come next year’s free agent class, especially after a career year in 2008 for him.
I wonder if there’s any pressure there to move him.
I like the depth he provides, but I would move him.
I’d like to see Gardner in center and Melky be the fourth outfielder…or vice a versa.
Next year I would definitely go after Holliday and keep Damon for a 2 year deal if I could. Obviously you’d have to let Matsui go…you never know though.
2009 you could have Damon, Matsui, Swisher, Gardner and Cabrera
2010 you could have Damon, Holliday, Swisher Gardner/Cabrera and Jackson.
Just some thoughts.
Laura: It was mostly a win-now type move. But that said, I am not sure I can entirely believe the rumors that Cash wants to move Nady.
Que serà, serà.
Continued from last thread…..
“Had Josh not been using they would love to think of that, unfortunately he was trying to recover from disease.”
Brandon,
I’m not saying Hamilton should be in RF for them, just that it was very possible. They put him on the roster in ’07 instead of allowing him to go in the Rule V draft and wind up in Cincinnati, even with all the drug problems he still could have been on the Rays.
2007 OAK RF 57 46 413 107 109 2 0 0 1.000
2007 OAK CF 59 56 481 139 142 1 2 0 .986
2008 CWS RF 18 11 118 25 26 0 1 0 .962
2008 CWS CF 70 69 535 138 144 2 4 0 .972
2008 CWS LF 18 16 137 31 32 1 0 0 1.000
129 games in CF, avg fielding % of .979
A better % than his play in RF in ’08? (smaller sample, sure)
So, while he isn’t an ALL STAR CF…he certainly has the rocket arm that Damon does not have anymore. And, if you want the most POTENT offensive lineup, the OF has Damon, Swisher, and Nady in it.
Well, consider the positives of Nady walking after this season, draft picks! though I don’t know if he’ll get to type A FA status? I think Swisher is a very solid guy to keep on the team, a reasonable long term contract, he’s position flexible, and he gets a lot of walks, and he’s just entering his prime production years.
Pete — Fedex or UPS ground is affordable and you’re dealing with a business you can count on. Cheers. Paul.
I just posted this in the Pettitte thread, but it makes more sense here: Trade Nady, Melky, Kennedy, and another mid level prospect for Aaron Rowand and Jonathan Sanchez. Or the first three for Nate McClouth.
Also, I really want to see Gran Torino. I loved Eastwood’s westerns and the trailer to this definitely had that feel.
Slumdog Millionaire and Waltz With Bashir are amazing, beautiful, and moving.
Imagine if the Cubs kept Hamilton-they picked him in the rule V draft then traded him to the Reds.
Anyone know what happens if no one wants to give up a first round pick for a type A free agent? I mean at some point in time can they sign without the signing team giving up something?
Swisher can play RF, so can Melky. Or they can try to convince Abreu to take the pay cut and come back.
Pete,
I don’t know about luggage but their are companies that take care of golf clubs. We know you were really talking about your clubs as one bag, it’s Florida.
I want to see Holliday in Oakland before I would get excited about him coming to NY.
As for our current situation, I think you can make a case for either Swisher or Nady to stay or go. Whomever stays, I would like to see Gardner win the starting CF job and to hit around .280+ this year, steal 40 bases and play hellacious (is that a word, how do you spell it) defense out there.
Sal: I don’t want Rowand, but McClouth intrigues me.
Mr. Exceptional: “Next year I would definitely go after Holliday and keep Damon for a 2 year deal if I could.”
I’d wait and see what kinds of numbers Holliday can put up outside of Coors and in the AL. I don’t think he’s a bad player but his numbers were inflated so much by Coors (check the splits)) that his contract value is most likely not to be in line with the actual returns.
Nate McClouth is poor defensively. The Yankees really need to make sure their CF defense is solid.
I would take less production from a guy like Gardner for the superior defense. Plus the potential speed bonus on the bases.
I also get a feeling he could be one of those guys that has Paplebon’s number. Much like Mueller for the Sox had Mo’s number.
How exciting the Mets are about to sign Tim Redding. I hope he gives up 14 runs against the Phillies like he did against the Soxs.
Hey Pete, thanks for still updating the blog, but go enjoy some time off. When do you leave for Tampa? It is coming soon, getting excited for it. I still dont get why people want to trade Nady, why do they have to trade anyone, we finally have some depth and I like it.
Dave
Good article re: your take on the Rays
http://www.raysindex.com/2008/.....s-are.html
Buy low, sell high. Keep Swisher and move Nady. We are talking about the 7th / 8th hitter in our lineup (as long as our lineup is healthy w/ Matsui and Posada). You trade Nady to the Giants for Sanchez (or someone of the like) and you pick up a veteran player (Kotsay / Hinske) for the bench. Swisher is the RF / backup 1B and you can have Kotsay / Hinske play some RF from time to time.
Another good what if, Tom. Cubs are a lot more formidable with him in CF instead of Johnson/Fukudome.
Mr. Exceptional: There is a lot of truth to that.
If Nady is traded… it should be, Damon (LF), Gardner/Melky (CF) and Swisher (RF).
scott 47
they should not trade anybody.swisher gives all 3 outfielders and tex rest.sign petite or somebody else who eats innings for the 4th spot.sign juan cruz asap.if gardenar bats 280 with 30 doubles and 40-60 steals i will be amazed.i hope he does.no 2 rowand yes to winn if there is a trade
Just a heads up for everyone on the “Sign Kotsay” train….he resigned with Boston today.
From the last thread-
“Harang is better than any one currently on the market at filling the yanks most pressing need. The reds have interest in nady and we could exploit that interest.”
dave,
There are few things in the realm of possible things the Yanks could do which would be dumber than trading for Aaron Harang.
Essentially, you would be taking Harang and his 3 year, 37.5MM obligation (after the trade, he would have a third year option at $14MM), and in return giving up Hughes and the potential of Kennedy, Aceves, etc., because there would be no place for them to pitch. We do not need to give a multi-year contract to another starting pitcher.
I do not want to start the whole Andy thing again, but for what the Yanks need Andy dominates Harang in every respect.
Joe – Kotsay was signed by the Sox today to a one-year deal.
Jim Edmonds? on a cheap deal?
He had a .883 OPS vs RHP last year. Not sure about his glove, though
Trade Nady, that makes room for Manny…:)
I can buy into that Faded Glory.
I still think he’ll put up good numbers. I don’t believe his numbers are an aberration. I’m sure Coors had an impact, but I like the guy, I like his make up. Plus that was a nice opposite field bomb he hit in the All-Star game.
And I really hope they keep Damon around after this year.
Unless they are going to pay over 23MM for Manny, dont get him, because he will not be happy, and will underperform.
That Rays article is well thought out but its wrong. Their first round picks on their 25 man roster are their best players. BJ Upton, Evan Longoria, David Price and guys who they traded Young (a first rounder) for make up the core of their team. Its nosense to say htat their high draft position has not been favorable toward turning around the franchise.
Dam the soxs are really carrying this small market, low budget, low revenue thing a bit far.
Next we’ll hear they signed Redding under the Mets noses.
“Why the Giants favored by only four points? They’ve had a week off to get healthy, the Plaxico mess is behind them and their defense will smother the Eagles.”
Yes, the Plaxico mess is behind them but so is Plaxico the player. He adds a whole other dimension to the offense. Oh well, Brandon Jacobs back and at full strength is the key now, so I like the G-Men -4 too. I hope it plays out as Pete suggests.
AeroFANatic
“he certainly has the rocket arm that Damon does not have anymore”
2 things:
1: Anymore? That implies Damon at one time actually HAD an arm. I think not.
2: That said, ANYBODY has a better arm than Damon.
Hinske would be a good option for a back up. If they can get him for cheap. He hit 20 homeruns and he can play 1st and the corner outfield spots.
Put me in the camp that was bummed to see the Sox resign Kotsay.
For 1.5 mil he would have been a nice option for the Yanks. Can play all outfield positions and first (he did great in the playoffs for Boston). He’s a gamer. Just a solid baseball player. Good to have those types around.
Nady for Sanchez! Do it Cash
That kid has young Andy Pettitte written all over.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
GB7,
Elijah Dukes had the talent to go in the third round. The problem was his attitude which the rays did not like. bUT LOOK at his numbers last year – pretty solid overall. 386 obp with 13 homers and 13 stolen bases in 276 at bats. iF you extrapolate that over an entire season, he could easily be a 30-30 player. That is definitely worth a third round draft pick. it wasnt like he was first overall like price or young or even upton. Bobby seay was not even drafted by the rays. he was drafted by the white sox and later signed by the rays. I cant think of any really high draft picks that havent turned into major league players that the rays have drafted at the moment – im sure there are some but they have done pretty darn good considering how many picks they have made.
Pete – Check out Slumdog Millionaire too… tremendous movie… again a simple story – but two plots woven together with a seamstress’ touch makes it enduring.
Five Stars – If you liked Gran Turino – you’ll love this one too.
The only criticism I’ve heard is a few people saying it was too much of a foreign movie… not “American” enough and they couldn’t relate to some of it…
it is clear that by being able to build one of the most successful teams in the major leagues and having the 2nd lowest payroll in the game that the rays are certainly using their money more wisely. Their attendance is still pretty poor even last season so I cant imagine they are in a very good financial situation compared to most of the teams in baseball. Perhaps, this season with their success last year, their attendance will improve. I would have to venture to guess that the rays will make more money this year than they did last year and will probably re-invest more.
The carlos pena signing as well as the troy percival signing last year proved that they are putting money back into the team’s payroll when they feel like they should. Further proof of this is their signings this off season of pat burrell for two years and 16 million showing they are willing to spend money to win finally.
I am pretty sure the teams can do whatever they want with the money they receive from revenue sharing. if the team want to reinvest the money in their player development program Im sure that is an option.
Randy I
i DID mention that the rays traded delmon young for Garza. But that just shows that they could even fix a first pick overall that didnt work out for them. They didnt like how it was going with young so they turned him into their third starter last year and one of the better ones in baseball in 2008. That just further goes to show how many good decisions the rays seem to make each year.
I wouldn’t mind Harang in the rotation. If they could swing that, that’s aces.
And for both McClouth and Rowand, I only even mention them as it seems that a CFer might coming back via trade. Otherwise, I actually do love Gardner’s tools, and think he can improve as a hitter in time.
As for Redding joining the Mets, I think it’s a huge mistake. There are many better pitchers out. Redding will burn them.
Just saw Gran Torino also, I loved it. Though, I didn’t like how the previews showed Gran Torino as more of an action movie when it wasn’t at all.
“Sal: I don’t want Rowand, but McClouth intrigues me.”
Possibly the most overrated name in CF, I’m tired of picking up overrated Pirates, Craig Wilson, Nady…com’on Rebecca cut the cord somewhere.
Wave Your Hat: While we have had our recent disagreements, I am in total agreement with your post there.
If we could get Harang for a reasonable deal, I’d do it, but the asking price would be prohibitive.
After all of this Pettitte mess, watch him end up back with the Yankees and end up on the DL.
“That Rays article is well thought out but its wrong. Their first round picks on their 25 man roster are their best players. BJ Upton, Evan Longoria, David Price and guys who they traded Young (a first rounder) ”
That’s simply not true. The Rays had only 2 top draft picks on their roster last year for most of the year – upton and longoria. Price had a cup of coffee and that’s it. He’s not why they won the division.
How many teams have been bad enough to have 2 top 5 picks on their roster at once. Lots. The Royals, nats, pirates, etc. None of those teams were close to the playoffs.
The player they traded Young for – Garza – was not part of their “core” either. He had a good season but was their third starter. The key to their pitching staff last year was Shields and then Kazmir. Sonnannstine was also very good. And Jackson was good. None of those 4 starters were acquired through the use of high draft picks.
So last year at most you could say high draft picks netted the rays 3 players on their 25 man roster. And one of them – Upton had a very off year due to his shoulder injury. He hit for limited power in the regular season.
The rays did a tremendous job assembling that team and high draft picks were part of it but not even close to the main reason why.
They just evaluate talent very well as a whole whether its later rounds in the draft, trades or free agent pick ups.
I hope we dont trade Nady. He is just a rock solid player. He can hit for average and power. He also came up with big hits in tough spots last year. He is proven to be able to play in NY. Swisher being a switch hitter is nice and all, but Wilson Betemit is a switch hitter. Where did that get him? Nady can hit .300, 20-30 homers, 80+ RBI. Swisher has never had a batting average higher than .262. He had one big 35 home run year but thats about it. I think Nady is more well rounded player than Swisher.
By trading Nady, you are not freeing up a spot for another OPF. So stop talking about Manny and Hinske!
I say they should trade Nady back to Pittsburgh and try and get Tabata back. The Yankees need hitting prospects to compliment the boatload of pitching prospects they have. Swisher is definitiely the keeper since Nady is going command big $ next year and beyond.
By the way, 2010 will most likely have Austin Jackson in CF and then Swisher in RF. Hopefully either Melky or Gardner discover what a baseball bat looks like, so they can fill in at LF. Otherwise, Damon, Jason Bay, and Holliday are all Free Agents.
Mr Exceptional,
I agree. Kotsay played 1st base very well when Lowell was injured and Pukolis moved to 3rd.He adds depth to Boston’s bench.
Swisher has similar skills and is a better hitter. He’d add the same kind of depth to the Yanks’ bench if he or Nady isnt moved. But I doubt Swisher would be happy as a role player and he makes too much money to be be one.
Brandon: You make it sound like I have a thing for Pirates.
Not true.
Unless, of course, you’re talking about guys that live in the 1700s and pillage and plunder.
Then we’re talking.
Harang? Not sure why he was so bad last year. Anyone know? DL have anything to do with it or was he just not good?
The movie, Cleaner was very good. I just saw it on netflix over the net. Samuel L Jackson is in it.
The only reason anyone should want Cash to sign Manny would be to see the looks on the face of the entire league. I forsee utter shock, followed by jaws dropping, and many many hours of crying.
“Has anybody used one of those services that ships luggage ahead for you?”
No but I used a service that delivers it 2 days after you arrive – it’s called “U.S. Airways”…
GB said:
“Cinncy may want Nady for Harang, but, NYY isn’t sending Aceves, Veras and another relief pitcher along and have NYY pick up the 25-37 mil price tag besides.”
GB,
You think that the reds would do nady for harang straight up after one bad season? iF that is the case, we should do it today. He is only making around 10 – 12 mil per season and he will easily put up better numbers than pettitte not to menion being 7 years younger. He is the ideal candidate to fill the fourth spot – young, innings eater, quality pitcher, reasonably priced and he certainly looks ripe for a comeback year. I love buying players at their lowest. I thought nady wouldnt be enough and we would have to trade others besides and veras really isnt all that much to give. Aceves would be another major piece in the deal but with four starters under contract and joba, hughes, kennedy besides, he could be used as trade bait if need be. i DONT THINK nady is enough to get harang – look at his numbers the past three seasons! bUT if he is, why arent we making the trade right now?
“I think Nady is more well rounded player than Swisher.”
Not even close ! Swisher is clearly the better option P/PA, defense, power on both sides of the plate, better versatility, better future contract. They need to ship Nady to the best bidder.
Pete: I’m a senior in high school and worked part-time at a UPS store for about a year. You wouldn’t believe all the crazy things we shipped! More importantly, we shipped luggage for people all the time. They would always thank us after returning from their trips for the reliability of the service. I have to say that UPS Ground is the way to go. It also helps to ask the store manager to stick a few fragile stickers on it – I think we charged about 30 cents each – well worth it.
I Drive for UPS and we do provide a good service. Much better then Fed-Ex Ground. But save the money on the fragile stickers ( not Looked at ) and just secure the suitcases as best as possible.
I don’t get all the love for Jonathon Sanchez. Yeah, I know he’s got good stuff but he’s an Oliver Perez clone.
And he was terrible last season in the weakest division in baseball.
No thanks. He’s a project. He’s certainly not someone I’d stick in that final rotation slot – that’s for certain. Doesn’t throw nearly enough strikes.
The Yanks may very well need Nady for themselves if Matsui goes down again or they need to spell Damon a few extra days off to keep his legs fresh.
“Jim Edmonds? on a cheap deal? ”
A platoon of Edmonds and Nady would be sweet. Against righties, your OF is Damon (LF), Edmonds (CF) and Swisher (RF), and against lefties it would be Swisher (LF), Damon (CF) and Nady (RF).
You’d have Gardner or Melky for a late inning defensive replacement, or to play when a pitching change forced Edmonds out of the lineup.
Just don’t know if the Edmonds could play CF in Yankee Stadium regularly and whether the Yanks would much like the overall outfield defense.
But you could generate some offense.
“No but I used a service that delivers it 2 days after you arrive – it’s called “U.S. Airways”…”
It’s funny ‘cos it’s true. Well done #9.
Unless the Yankees are okay with Harang’s contract, I would stay away. Not only does he make around $11 million, if he’s traded, according to Cots, one of those options vests for more money.
I don’t think the Yankees can lock themselves into Harang for another 3 years.
His contract is over market value right now. Bad move and as others have said it would block the young guys.
If they trade Nady for pitching, they need to come to a deal with Bobby Abreu. 2/20 maybe? He hasnt seen anything better.
ANSKY: I think Harang was hurt last year
“If they trade Nady for pitching, they need to come to a deal with Bobby Abreu. 2/20 maybe? He hasnt seen anything better.”
LOL No.
If they trade Nady for pitching, they need to come to a deal with Bobby Abreu. 2/20 maybe? He hasnt seen anything better.
————
How does that make any sense at all?
They got rid of Abreu because his defense sucks and he’s going to be 36 years old.
Why would they get rid of a young corner outfielder just to sign another DH?
Rebecca, we just had one disagreement as far as I recall – you called Andy a used Prius. I’ve chalked it up to the impetuosity of youth. I’m sure on reflection you realized how hurtful that was.
Agreed ups ground is the way to go. Shipping from NY it should only take 2-3 days.
Harang has great control on his fastball.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....6132909738
Bringing back Bobby would make more sense if we find out that Matsui has turned himself into an illustration to be closer to his new bride. Otherwise, no thank you.
Sad times for a Yankee star:
“Alex Rodriguez has cut the asking price of his Coral Gables, Fla., home to $12.3 million — just above the $12 million he and his estranged wife, Cynthia, paid for it in 2004. The Yankees slugger first listed the house in the fall for $14.9 million.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....66321.html
Interesting article from the Biz of Baseball site
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/i.....Itemid=155
wonder what type of SP a Nady & Kennedy combo would bring back
Why pay for Harang when by next year Hughes will probably be better?
So the Mets will have Johan Sandtuna, John DL Maine, Lucky Pelf, Tim Redding, and Oliver Perez. Oh god that’s sooooo scaryyyyy lol.
That rotation would be manhandled in the AL East. They lucky they are in the NL toilet with a ballpark that favors pitchers.
Abreu is replaced by Teixeira for all intents and purposes, so that discussion is moot (or mute as SamIam would say).
You can’t expect to have a superstar at every position.
I often wonder what some of the younger people on this board would have said back in the mid 90′s about a team that had Charlie Hayes, Chad Curtis, Joe Girardi, etc… in the everyday lineup.
Not to mention the 70′s with Bucky Dent, Chris Chambliss, Willie Randolph out there everyday.
Perspective people…
russell they may not have a ballpark that favors pitchers according to Heyman I posted the link earlier in the day but it is on si.com today they allegedly did a secret batting session with Wright, Murphy and Evans back in September at the new Citifield and they think that it may not be such a pitchers park as Shea
Wave your hat,
Outside of playoff experience, Andy doesnt dominate Harang in any respect. And i love how you made that statement and then, ended your post. How convenient? Did you look up some numbers and realize there is nothing to backup that statement outside of playoff experience?
And the argument that signing Harang blocks hughes is ridiculous. Yes, we would have five starters signed on for this year and next but what if hughes is not ready this year? And if he is, there are a ton of things that can happen. AJ is far from the picture of health, wang is coming off a severe injury and cc has thrown 500 innings in two seasons. So hughes will be waiting in the wings this year if any of them breakdown. It would be the exact same thing as signing pettitte for hughes this year. Next year, who knows what will happen? Someone may not be able to start the year. If everyone is healthy – joba could move to the closer or setup role or whoever struggled last year could move to the pen. Mariano is getting up there in age. It is always better to have too much pitching than not enough. And i fail to see your plan for hughes this year if pettitte is signed as opposed to harang being traded for.
Whats more, you are distorting facts. We would only have harang for two years as the third is a TEAM OPTION so you dont count that one. And his current contract is probably fair market value for him. I REPEAT, there is no one on the free agent market who would be a better deal than taking on the rest of harang’s current contract.
“Why pay for Harang when by next year Hughes will probably be better?”
We’re trying to get value for Nady, suggestions ?
Ill be at the games the last weekend in March (27th and 29th). How do i go about getting a Peter Abraham autograph?
“Alex Rodriguez has cut the asking price of his Coral Gables, Fla., home to $12.3 million—just above the $12 million he and his estranged wife, Cynthia, paid for it in 2004. The Yankees slugger first listed the house in the fall for $14.9 million.”
If that place is as horribly decorated as I remember, he’ll be cutting the price again.
Mr. Exceptional: I take the real Sam I Am at his word that the “point it mute” poster wasn’t actually him. Since that ‘mute’ post didn’t like to self-promoter Sam I Am’s blog, it makes sense.
Also, Willie Randolph was a six-time All-Star, not chopped liver. This should warm Rebecca’s heart: he was also originally drafted by the Pirates.
Alex picked a bad time to enter the housing market..
didn’t *link* to Sam I Am’s blog, that is
“Why pay for Harang when by next year Hughes will probably be better?”
i don’t know much about harang, but i did notice he threw over 230 innings both in 2006 and 2007. that makes him and hughes two totally different pitchers at this point in their careers. harang is an innings eater and hughes is an innings anorexic.
if hughes gives the yankees 125 good innings it’ll be a success for him and the yankees( that’s assuming he comes up later in the year).
I’m very confused by the Tim Redding signing. Tim Redding???
“Alex picked a bad time to enter the housing market..”
True. However, I’m sure the 32mil he’ll earn this season will soften the blow.
Willie Randolph was a pretty great player.
And those `90′s teams also had benches full of Boggs, Raines, Strawberry and Davis.
dave, I don’t want to get into Andy again. It’s been done to death.
But, your post is so wrong I can’t just ignore it.
First, I didn’t say Harang dominated Andy in every respect. I said FOR WHAT THE YANKS NEED Andy dominated Harang in every respect. If you have nothing to do for a couple hours, I suggest going back and reading all the posts on Andy for the previous 3 days and you’ll have all the background you need. It doesn’t need to be repeated.
Second, Harang’s contract gets a MUTUAL OPTION at $14MM in the third year if Harang is traded. That means Harang may stay here in his third year if he likes for $14MM. It won’t be the Yanks’ call. So who’s distorting facts?
Third, a three year obligation BLOCKS HUGHES and promising minor league starter we have. CC, Wang, AJ, Joba and Harang. No room for anyone else. It would be insane to keep Hughes around long term as injury insurance. He would have to go.
So next time, take the time to read and think before you type another 500 words.
PJH
I agree that there high draft position has helped them but it is not the sole reason they are good. Yes, BJ upton and evan langoria were there best hitters last season and garza helped them out who was he they got for Young. bUT what about all those other players that helped them – LIKE carlos pena (who they signed off the scrap heap) and scott kazmir (who they traded victor zambrano for)? How about Andy Sonnanstine (who they drafted in the thirteenth round) or James Shields (who they drafted in the sixteenth round)? Those were critical components to their season and represent great signings, trades and amazing pickups in the later rounds through solid scouting and development. How many teams had an ace last year that they drafted in the sixteenth round and developed? iT JUST shows an all around great quality to their organization and proves the fact that it isnt all about their early picks. They also didnt need young and got back garza who was absolutely crucial to their success. David Price played zero impact in them making the playoffs so he is largely irrelevant in them doing so. Troy Percival who they signed for about 3 mil gave them almost 30 saves during the season as well. Not many teams can get a closer that effective for 3 million dollars.
Frost/Nixon was excellent but the best film I’ve seen this year is Slumdog Millionaire. Boo Ya!
Brandon-
I don’t want to trade Nady, I like the depth.
But somebody suggested getting Edmonds, and I did post what I thought was a clever platoon with him, but it required keeping Nady.
It’s hard to believe Abreu is still available. He’s not a good defender,but my god he’s still a darn good bat. For fun’s sake, for about $65mil you could buy yourself a decent starting 8 right now.
Varitek C $6mil
Ty Wigginton 1B $3mil
Orlando Hudson $6mil
Orlando Cabrera SS $8mil
Joe Crede 3B $4mil
Manny LF $25mil
Ken Griffey CF $4mil
Bobby Abreu RF $10mil
Nick: Willie Randolph lives not far from where I grew up. His son played football with my brother and his daughter went to my high school.
I’m very aware of Willie’s past accomplishments.
Just pointing out that he wasn’t considered a superstar.
It was a very different era, I remember it well.
Fred “The Chicken” Stanley was a utility guy back then…could you imagine the outcry with a bench that had Stanley on it. For the record I loved “The Chicken”.
Stanley often started and when he didn’t Jim Mason would, but that was pre-Bucky.
Good point Phil…but none, aside from maybe Boggs, were still at the top of their game.
And I love Willie, one of my favorite players growing up…No disrespect meant to Mr. Randolph.
Just trying to give some perspective to the people who think every position needs a superstar.
Chicken was still around when Bucky was there. He was with the Yanks till 1980.
How is 11 million dollars for aaron harang for 2 years over market value if pettitte is worth 10 million or bradley is worth 10 million for 3 years?
Wave your hate,
Ive read sooo many of those posts already. I have the background i need. The yanks need an innings eater who can provide them quality starts. How can pettitte do that better than harang? The yanks need 200 innings and they want to get younger. Harang fills both those. Forget the playoffs for a minute and lets focus on getting through the regular season – Harang is seven years younger than pettitte. Pettitte has a lot of mileage on that arm. I cant buy the argument that pettitte would do better next year than harang.
I didnt realize the option changed from a team option to a vesting option for 14 mil if he gets traded. I have never heard that before when it the trade was posted on other threads. But you seem to think that if pettitte comes back next season, he somehow wont block the kids. Hughes is making hardly any money the next couple of seasons so why would we not keep him around as you say. Mariano is not going to be the closer forever and unless the yanks decide on trading for one next year, what happens when he breaks down midseason or has a major injury? Joba could just as easily be the closer as a starter making him much more valuable than an eighth inning setup guy. Further, all of our starters are injury risks. Who knows what the future will bring? Better to have more pitching than less as i said last post.
Finally, why is this even a discussion. Unless someone blinks, the discussion shouldnt be harang or pettitte, it should be harang or nothing or harang or sheets or harang or perez. At this moment, pettitte doesnt seem like such a likely option any more and I doubt the yanks are squabbling over trading for harang or signing pettitte at this or any moment. I for one, would rather have harang over most of the other options on the market. Granted, that vesting option makes him less desirable and i would probably throw my money into sheet’s hat for a one year contract with incentives over trading for harang for three years but i think no matter what we need to add another starter. It is too risky to rely on joba, aceves, hughes and kennedy to fill the fourth and fifth spot as well as fill in for an injury when it happens.
Pete — haven’t used one of those services, but sometimes when I travel and pick up SWAG I send it all back UPS. Easy, realatively cheap, they’ll pack it if you want, and you can “track” the package on the web.
I was saying Chicken didn’t start anymore once Bucky got there. Mason was gone.
wave your hat,
You also didnt even consider the fact that joba isnt throwing more than 150 innings this season – hughes can team up with joba to fill in the fifth starters spot this year and go from there. I guarantee there will be a place for him next season even with CC, wang, AJ and Harang all under contract. It is ridiculous to assume that there wouldnt be.
Wow, Carl Pavano commenting on his time with the Yankees, “When you’re down, you expect your organization to pick you up, not kick you when you’re down. I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years.”
You have to be kidding me Pavano?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....os-co.html
Dave, the point is that Harang is a legitimate ace–and that’s not what the Yankees need right now.
Nevermind the cost it would take to get him.
“russell they may not have a ballpark that favors pitchers according to Heyman I posted the link earlier in the day but it is on si.com today they allegedly did a secret batting session with Wright, Murphy and Evans back in September at the new Citifield and they think that it may not be such a pitchers park as Shea”
Thank you for the good news Gayle. I hope they realize this as they sign scrap pitchers.
“When you’re down, you expect your organization to pick you up, not kick you when you’re down,” Pavano said. “I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years”
Carl Pavano
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_cle
I wish Moose would come back and kick him again!
Harang could cost 14 million in his final year…
Here’s the breakdown:
07:$4.25M, 08:$6.75M, 09:$11M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout)
2011 option increases to $13M with 210 IP in 2010
if traded, ***2011 option becomes mutual option at $14M*** ($2.5M buyout)
Harang is not as good as Pettitte. A high 3 ERA in the Central. I believe Pettitte had a mid 2 ERA in the same division one year.
All things being equal you take Pettitte, no brainer.
dave,
The Yanks seem to want to keep the kids in the minors for 2009, so a one-year pitcher doesn’t block anyone. It is in complete accord with what the Yanks want to do.
Second, my point was never Harang or Andy. Andy’s been discussed so thoroughly I think we’ve all moved on. Between Harang and Andy, I do like Andy, BUT
My point was I don’t want Harang, and think he’d be a bad fit for the Yanks. If we sign another starting pitcher, ONE YEAR MAXIMUM. In 2010 Hughes must be a full time starter.
“Wave your hate” <—— ha!
It’s hard to remember, as I was at a tender age, but I think I witnessed a Fred Stanley home run. On tv, I mean. But still, that kind of thing only happened once or twice a year, right?
Josiah: This is a joke, right?
I was referrencing Chicken as a utility guy from the beginning. Chicken.
“When you’re down, you expect your organization to pick you up, not kick you when you’re down,” Pavano said. “I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years
Well they were nice enough to pay you $40M to stay home and watch the games for four years.
Rebecca,
No, I can’t believe him bashing the Yankees like that. Cashman stood by him for four years, even though he made 26 starts for nearly 40 million. Absurd comment by him.
Saturday April 18,2009
Carl Pavano vs Chein Ming Wang or AJ Burnett
I can only hope…
Story on the guys interested in playing for the US in the WBC….
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3821795
Gotta love how Grady Sizemore is grouped with the likes of Matt Lindstrom, Matt Thornton, B.J. Ryan, Scot Shields and Brian Fuentes in the article. What the heck is up with that??
“I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years”
Unfortunately, he strained his quad while doing so and went back on the DL.
Nice that Pavano seems to think that he was able to pick himself up but was never able to pick up any of his team mates when they really needed him. Oh and of course he didnt mention the fact about that little accident he had that caused one of his injuries that he easily forgot to tell the Yankees about.
It truly is amazing the selective memory that some people have.
Let’s see if Pavano and the Indians have the guts to pitch him in Yankee stadium next year. If the Yankees face him (If he can actually stay healthy out of Spring training) a beat down is completely justified for a spineless thief like Carl Pavano.
Carl Pavano is a mature fellow, isn’t he?
as for the BCS title game, i don’t necessarily think interceptions and defense is a letdown. though Oklahoma not taking that field goal was inexcusable. i predicted florida 38 – 17.
would Tebow be better at another position once pro? a fullback maybe?
Josiah from NC
YOu have got to be kidding me?!! What did he want the Yankees to do, throw him a pity party? Obviously the Yankees did not buy all the injury’s (despite what Cash may have said, he wasn’t going to throw some guy under the bus to the public).
“Saturday April 18,2009
Carl Pavano vs Chein Ming Wang or AJ Burnett”
Moose can come back on a one-day contract.
“When you’re down, you expect your organization to pick you up, not kick you when you’re down. I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years.”
When your down ? where is GB or Nick from SF when you need a joke.
GB 7
From the previous thread you mentioned the Rays draft picks.
They haven’t been all that successful as some may think.
For the most part the more recent picks have been good which tells me their scouting staff got better.
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/t.....sp?c_id=tb
I am just hoping he starts for Cleveland on the first series at Yankees Stadium. Wow, that should be a fun game to watch!
During his visit to Cleveland earlier this week for a physical examination, Pavano saw Westbrook, Hafner and Aaron Laffey at Progressive Field, checking in with the team’s trainers.
“It shows the dedication the organization has toward the players, and the receptiveness of the players to the organization,” Pavano said. “I’ve been in four or five organizations, and it was new to me. I was refreshed by it all. They obviously have the resources that I think will benefit me and the team. I was more excited once I saw it in action, and I’ve been blessed with the right fit.”
—————–
Oh please Carl gag me.
Oh nevermind.
As for his time in New York, Pavano might have felt like he was kicked around a few times, but he said he carries no grievances.
“New York’s a great place to play,” he said. “There’s no reason for me to focus on what happened to me, because that’s all behind me. I’m not holding any grudges. You just keep moving forward.”
____________
yoU AREN’T HOLDING GRUDGES WELL i WOULD HOPE NOT YOU STOLE 40 MILLION!! What a dumb — I hope whoever goes tot he game boos hims every move.
Pavano seems to be missing a few screws up there, or something.
These Pavano comments have made my day. Good to hear he’s not carrying any grudges.
Thanks, all.
I don’t like to wish injury on anyone, I think it is bad Karma… But … Well I won’t say it, I think every Yankee fan thinks the same of him, and wishes the same on him.
jennifer,
If the Indians are crazy enough to pitch Pavano on Saturday April 18 I’ll do what I can to make your wish come true.
I want to insult Carl Pavano but if I hurt his feelings I’m afraid he’d go on the DL.
I hope Pavano enjoys the rest of his life and that we Yankee fans don’t have to see him ever again
I’ll say it Jennifer, I hope Pavano breaks a heel.
I give it two weeks before Pavano strains a muscle playing in the Cleveland (Lake Erie) April air. Then asking why the weather didnt pick him up.
Pretty nice revisionist history by Carl. But, what do you expect him to say?
“I came to NY because my mother wanted me to play for the Yankees. Derek Jeter hated me because I once hit on one of his ladies. Taking the lead from Derek, the rest of the guys on the team didn’t warm to me. I did make friends with Randy Johnson though! I also didn’t really condition myself well in my first year and got hurt”.
“I proceeded to sit on the sofa in Tampa, eat junk food, watch TV, and not interact with anybody in my second year with the Yankees, except my “pal” Randy Johnson. Predictably, the guys on the team still hated me and I got hurt again”.
“In my third year, when I was supposed to be in Tampa rehabbing, I went back to Jupiter to hang out with a waitress I met at a bar in the off-season. I slammed my Porsche into the rear end of a truck, made sure the waitress wasn’t on the scene when the cops came, and had to inform the Yankees (who thought I was in Tampa), that I was in Jupiter. I also got sued by the driver of the truck and that’s still pending”.
“I then blew out my elbow again, a real injury for a change, and needed a year to rehab. Seeing that it was the final year of my contract, the 4th agent I have had in the last 4 years suggested I really dedicate myself to this rehab if I want another contract in the game. I did and I am in Cleveland”.
May not be the way Carl remembers his time in NY but, the above is a synopsis of his Yankee career.
Maybe Carl hit his head on the dashboard in that accident he had with his girlfriend when he was supposed to have been working on his rehab.
Hey Carl…….Sorry nobody “picked you up” when you literally injured your buttocks in Spring Training. What a waste this guy is!!!!!
I can see Pavano knocking himself out cold swiping at midgies.
Re: Pavano -
Just, WOW!
Good riddance.
I never harbored any ill will towards the guy; I figured no one gets hurt on purpose. But what I guess I missing, and what has come out in these quotes, was the guy’s attitude, which he could have controlled. Live and learn. Live and learn.
back to the original question I have used this service before as it was recommended by our travel agent. They are very good. I have also used UPS Ground which also works nicely
http://WWW.LUGGAGEFREE.COM
Few have ever documented Carl Pavano’s time with the Yankees better than the Respect Jeter’s Gangster blog
http://respectjetersgangster.b.....diary.html
http://respectjetersgangster.b.....ary-2.html
http://respectjetersgangster.b.....ary-3.html
Anyone want to bet $100 that Lidge stikes out Hinske to end the world series
In case Pavano wasn’t enough to make you sick
Peter Gammons: One of the big things for CC is not trying to throw too many innings in the regular season. He’ll have a circle of friends on the Yankees like Derek Jeter and Posada, but this will be a very different experience than pitching in Cleveland or Milwaukee. A.J.’s stuff is so good, one would think that if he stays healthy, he’ll be fine, but it will be a very different experience for a guy from Arkansas to go into New York to a team for whom anything but a world championship will be a failure.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....peter.html
I can’t wait to read these comments to Mussina and see what he thinks.
SHUT UP, SHUT UP !! PETER GAMMONS JUST SHUT UP !, I’LL PUNCH AN OLD MAN I SWEAR !
jennifer -
So you’re going to go? Great. Have a wonderful time and stay safe, warm and dry.
What in the world is Gammons talking about? Is he saying that AJ is so dumb hick and won’t make it in NY? Give me a break. He guy seriously has lost his marbles.
SJ: Is it wrong of me if I thought that was eons more entertaining than the magazine I am currently reading?
Doreen – Yep got the tickets a few weeks ago and have a hotel booked. So baring any snowstorm I’ll be there.
I think Peter Gammons got so used to failure in Boston that he just doesnt know how to react anymore.
Brandon -
Take a deep breath.
I figure I can’t watch, read or listen to this stuff anymore. I don’t clink on the links, either. We all KNOW what’s going to be said.
Envy green is a horrible shade!
Randy 1 – I just got back from passing the hat for John Henry. Just wait til NEXT year’s free agent extravaganza. We’ll be loaded for bear.
While engaged in revenue enhacement, I missed your earlier post suggesting that we move Pedroia to catcher (something about his height). Unbeknownst to you, we are always thinking out of the (catcher’s) box, and this roster improvement is already underway. Concurrent with that move, we are seeking a badly injured, previously effective second baseman to sign to an incentive laden contract.
It is common knowledge that the Sox doctors, buttressed with water from Lourdes, can heal any injury. We are rebounding from the shock and awe of The Spending Spree, and are prepared to do battle on behalf of the little people of America.
Don’t do it, Brandon, he’ll bleed chowdah.
YES should buy ESPN, then fire EVERYONE!
Gammons is a hologram. He can’t be punched!
Hey I just read this report from the AP:
“When you reached for comment in his Pennsylvania home regarding Carl Pavano’s statements, Mike Mussina said, “Who?”
Is he saying a country boy can’t excel in NYC or is he saying that people from Arkansas are not competiive?
Good ‘ol boys that have exceled as Yankees:
Mickey
Catfish
Gator
Murcer
who else?
Here’s the thing about YES and all the Yankee people. They don’t do what all these other people do. They don’t bash other teams. In fact, there are very few media “homers” in New York. The Yankees can’t catch a break. Their own reporters are highly critical, which can be a good thing, mind you, if it is well-placed, and out-of-town media is brutal.
The alternative though, is for the Yankees to be a meaningless team that no one cares about. So….
Quickly re Gran Torino. No offense, Pete, but you shouldn’t have to go anywhere to realize he was working with first-time actors. The ineptitude of same — and it’s the director’s fault, not the kids themselves — is only the lamest part of a pretty lame movie. Obvious in every possible way. Written in crayon. And almost completely sabotaged by the inconsistent performances — and some of the latter damage might have been ameliorated by a director who was willing to protect his actors, but let’s just say that Clint’s reputation in this regard didn’t leave much chance of that.
But other than that…
Does that Jeff Dunham guy have a Gammons puppet? He should.
He isn’t saying anything anybody else says about CC and AJ. It doesn’t mean anything though. Its just noise. No baseball logic behind it.
What he ISN’T saying is:
John Smoltz has had 5 surgeries in the last 6 years. He’s 42 years old. While he is a surreal competitor, he’s no more of a competitor than Curt Schilling.
Meaning, you can be as much of a competitor as you want. If your shoulder has been cut, you are not the pitcher you once were.
They have 6 starting pitchers and 5 of them spent a chunk of time on the DL last year. Two of them (Beckett and Penny) have shoulder problems, making them much more risky than AJ Burnett. A third (Wakefield) is 40 and has a chronically bad back. Not exactly, “the best pitching staff in the league”.
Rocco Baldelli is a great character guy and will do a nice job as a 4th OF. However, if you add up the money they spent for Smoltz, Penny and Baldelli, and put HALF of it toward Mark Teixeira’s deal, Tex would be a Red Sox today.
Then again, I wouldn’t expect ‘Ol Pete to break it down as I just did.
Brandon, do we need to mind what you watch on the tv?
Harley, you sound bitter. Did Clint kick your dog or something?
Doreen
“Here’s the thing about YES and all the Yankee people. They don’t do what all these other people do. They don’t bash other teams.”
Leading up to the first Yankee/Red Sox series last year NESN ran promos showing fight scenes between the 2 clubs. You’d never see that on YES.
harley – Every person that I know that has seen it loved it. You are so off base.
Randy 1 – I just came back from passing the hat for John Henry, so I was away when you made that politically incorrect remark about Dustin Pedroia, and his ability to catch standing up.
I am recovering from the shock and awe of the Yankees’ spending spree, but not well.
I’m very encouraged by our new initiative to build roster depth. Even now, John Henry’s private plane is coming back from Lourdes with vats of water, and he will shower our latest group of “high risk/high reward” signees with its healing touch.
We’re just disappointed that we missed out on Pavano, who would prove a worthy test for the recuperative power of faith. We’ll have to settle for miracles of a lesser nature.
I’m sorry Rebecca somewhere between ICU-ANO’s words of wisdom and Peter’s hot garbage I nearly lost it. I’ll try to control myself better.
Gammons also said this about Beckett:
“He has both a bad back and a strain in his side”
I he saying that Beckett is still hurt?
“Taking the lead from Derek, the rest of the guys on the team didn’t warm to me.”
SJ
You usually seem to have the inside scoop but if that is true, there’s something inherently bad about a whole team following the Captain’s lead in this case.
Lester is the one of the 6 starters who didnt land on the DL last year, but he has a life battle with cancer. I’d take our 4 over their 6.
I actually think the Sox did a great job of getting Baldelli, Smoltz and Penny. They are all low cost, high reward options. There is obviously risk involved but they all have the ability to be great players. Will they all pan out? Very doubtful. Regardless, they were good moves.
That being said, I’d much rather have Swisher, Teixeira, Burnett and Sabathia.
Didn’t Gammons have an aneurysm a few years ago? Perhaps his odd behavior of late is tied to that. Maybe there was some damage done that has affected his mental processes.
Carl’s right you know…
he spilled his guts out for us.
of course that sent him to the DL too…
“You usually seem to have the inside scoop but if that is true, there’s something inherently bad about a whole team following the Captain’s lead in this case.”
I don’t think its that bad, Pavano is obviously a low character guy.
That’s kind of a low blow Laura…
Actually, Pettitte for one, seemed to try to reach out to Pavano a little – both last season and the one where Pavano pitched opening day. So, perhaps not everyone had the same attitude as Mussina.
Drive 4-5 -
The Yankees have years and years worth of great clips to show – they don’t have to stoop to showing the fisticuffs.
“My point was I don’t want Harang, and think he’d be a bad fit for the Yanks. If we sign another starting pitcher, ONE YEAR MAXIMUM. In 2010 Hughes must be a full time starter.”
What if he struggles in AAA, pitching to a 4.50 ERA? Next year you’ll be saying he must be demoted to AA. What if he’s hurt again? For that matter, why did we bother signing Sabathia when we have Brackman the Future Ace coming?
You don’t make decisions about your pitching staff based on kids who may or may not be ready to start in 20XX. You fill up as many slots as you can with proven commodities, then make changes when you’re confident that the kids are ready. Guys can be traded, including (if the starting 5 all do well) Hughes, who could bring back a lot if he restores his 2006 value.
John Smoltz is not low cost. He’s not pitching until June but has a $5.5mil guarantee and can easily make $10.5mil as long as he’s on the roster at the end of the season.
We’re talking about Andy Pettitte not being worth more than $10mil depite throwing 204 innings last year. Smoltz could exceed that and pitch fewer than 150 innings.
SJ – Smoltz, Penny and Baldelli are on one year contracts with a guaranteed total of about $11M. 1/2 of Teixeira’s contract is $90M. Back in the days of “Old Math,” 1/2 of $90M is $45M.
You’ve got a winning argument on the Sox being “pond foolish” with Teiexeira. Don’t have to diminish it with “fuzzy math.”
It’s disengenuos to ignore the out years when comparing the nature of the deals, and the long-term risks.
Pat,
No there isn’t.
Ballplayers and locker room are a culture of their own.
You have all different types of personalities, cliques, rules, etc.
When a new guy comes in, guys look to get a read on that guy. If something isn’t kosher about the guy, they ask around.
They take all of the information they receive and check him out for themselves.
If certain things come to the forefront that are turnoffs for the guys, they turn on that player.
Its kind of the rules of the jungle, if you will.
Most of the guys on the team hated Pavano because they felt he was a dog. They didn’t think he worked hard, even on those rare occasions he was healthy, and they didn’t like the fact that he seemed “healthy” enough to partake in the nightlife but, unhealthy enough to pitch.
Nobody will ever accuse Jason Giambi of being a guy that stayed in his hotel room on the road.
However, Jason was always in the cage, working on his game, and guys respected him for it.
“Normal” (for lack of a better term) rules of society don’t always happen in a locker room of professional athletes.
Its why the word “chemistry” is thrown around a lot but is not easily attained.
SJ–
The other thing is that Lester pitched way more than 30 innings m ore last year then he has the previous year and if you buy into the Will Carool/verducci theory that is not a good sign.
Mooses’ reaction to Pavano comments I can just see that little smirk he gets sometimes on his face when asked a question by reporters he doesn’t like who wants to give a snide comment about but doesn’t
Patrick – I agree with you. And I think there a probably a few others here who, if you twisted their arms, would agree as well – at least concerning Smoltz and Baldelli. I seem to remember more than a couple of posts advocating the Yankees taking a chance on either or both of those two players.
I don’t think either one will pan out, though, personally. And I didn’t want the Yankees to go for either one.
I was really, really, really suprised that Smoltz left Atlanta. I haven’t read anything – has he said anything about it?
“I don’t think its that bad, Pavano is obviously a low character guy.”
Maybe, but that’s a judgement call for each guy to make on their own not for Jeter to make for them.
Boston was ready to pay $170M for Tex.
I doubt it was simply the extra $10M that Tex liked more about the Yankees than Boston.
Giambi signing already paying off for A’s, says SF Chronicle:
“Giambi and ticket sales: The A’s have sold two to three times as many tickets this week as they would in a normal offseason week, according to Jim Leahy, the A’s vice president of sales and marketing. The increase coincided with reports of the signing of former A’s first baseman Jason Giambi, and the volume increased as the week progressed, Leahy said.
“Jason is sort of the ultimate marketing package,” Leahy said.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....1567JI.DTL
Drive 4-5, For a pitcher of Smoltz’ caliber, $5.5 million for half a year is a steal. Even if he ends up making $10 mil it means he pitched very well and met all his performance bonuses. Even that amount for a pitcher like Smoltz is a good deal.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised to see Smoltz pitch earlier than everyone thinks. Bobby Cox was on XM radio today and he said that Smoltz was pushing to be ready for April. Apparently the Sox have convinced him to ease back and shoot for late June. Just the fact that Smoltz thought he could be ready for April shows that he’s feeling pretty good right now. I think he could end up being very good for Boston this year.
Didn’t Schilling think last season he would be ready by June? How did that work out for them?
What long term risks are there with Teixeira?
He’s a guy they targeted for two years. They knew it was going to cost them the most money they ever offered a player in the history of their franchise.
They backed out for 7 million dollars over 8 years. That’s less than a million bucks a season.
They were already at 8 years. All they had to do was add a few more bucks.
It seems more disingenius to me to put out a press release saying they can’t bid any higher, proceed to bid higher (which they did), fall 7 million dollars short, and then sign 3 guys who spent most of last year on the DL.
If you target a guy for a couple of years, as the Yankees did with CC for example, you pay what it takes to get the guy.
There isn’t a trophy for second place in free agency. Especially for the top guys.
Patrick -
Yesterday, one of the things that the apoplectic Skip Bayless said was that the Red Sox would use Smoltz in such a way that he would start in relief and build up to starting and that this could happen earlier than expected.
““Jason is sort of the ultimate marketing package,” Leahy said.”
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/.....ajc101.jpg
Smoltzy will probably pitch in a game before Pavano does.
“Didn’t Schilling think last season he would be ready by June? How did that work out for them?”
Well first of all, the target for Schilling to return last year was after the all-star break, not June. Also, he wanted to get surgery, the Sox convinced him to rehab instead. He went the rehab route and when he tried to throw in June he still felt a lot of pain so he had season ending surgery.
The difference with Smoltz is that he’s already had his shoulder surgery and has been rehabbing it for months. He is on a much better road to recover than Schilling was going into last season.
SJ
Your first post implied offenses against Jeter personally turned the room and your second one suggested offenses against competing turned the room. 2 different things in my book.
Those 3 signings represent names. They all come with big risks.
Those are signings to show the fans, “we are working for you”.
As far as Smoltz is concerned, I’m a huge Smoltz fan. However, you can’t cover up 5 surgeries in 6 years.
Everybody wants the guy to come back because he’s a helluva competitor and great for the game. That said, 42 with his injuries is a steep hill to climb.
I like Baldelli as a player. I think its a great signing for a 4th OF role.
My point is, if the Yankees signed a 42 year old pitcher who has had 5 surgeries in the last 6 years, another pitcher who has a bad shoulder, weight issues, and is an unknown health-wise, and a player who can no longer play everyday due to a medical condition, Peter Gammons would be laughing at the Yankees right now.
Instead, its “How are CC and AJ going to hold up in NY”.
How about, “how are 3 guys who haven’t been healthy in years going to hold up in Boston”?
That’s a more legitimate issue than thinking Sabathia and Burnett are going to melt in pinstripes.
I get that its wishful thinking on the part of ‘ol Pete. I’m just (in vain) looking for him to apply a little balance in his “reporting”.
Especially after the rip job he gave Mrs. Teixeira yesterday.
pat I don’t see what the big deal is. Pavano proved through his actions that he is a low-class guy with little character. Therefore, he was shunned by his teammates. I have no problem with that.
SJ – My positon is a simple, quantifiable one.
There are NO long term risks in a one year contract.
There is an exponentially larger risk in a eight year contract (even for a relatively risk-free Teixeira).
I posted that you had a winning argument on the Sox being cheap on the Teixeira situation. But saying that the money obligated to Smoltz, Baldelli and Peeny could have got them Teixeira is WRONG. It would not have covered the first year, much less the out years.
Again, I’m making a math argument, in response a mathematically based assertion of your own. Nothing more ….
Brian (Red Sox Fan),
If Smoltz only collects $5.5mil that will mean he never made a start for the Red Sox. His incentive begin with his first start.
Also, is it disengenuos for the Red Sox and their fans to say they paid Dice K $52mil for 6 years when it actually costs them $103mil, including the posing fee? The actual cost of Dice K is more than the yankees are paying AJ Burnett.
Patrick,
Labrum surgery, which Smoltz had, is pretty serious stuff.
Even if you get through the rehab with flying colors, its a big unknown as to whether you can come back and pitch effectively.
That was not a minor surgery. Add to it 2 TJ surgeries, and another bone chip surgery on his right elbow, he’s got some challenges ahead of him.
If it works out, kudos to Smoltz. But, he’s got a long road ahead of him to be able to pitch well enough to get AL East hitters out.
SJ44,
Obviously Gammons is biased and doesn’t give the Yankees enough credit for the moves they’ve made. Some of the nonsense he spouts is absurd.
My point is that Yankee fans are almost the opposite, we aren’t giving Boston enough credit for what they’ve done this offseason. All three of those guys are low(kinda) risk, high reward.
Clearly the Yankees have improved their team a LOT more than the Red Sox. NY has made all the high profile signings and have gotten better players than the Red Sox fans. I’m simply saying that Penny, Baldelli and Smoltz could all turn out to be great players for the SOx.
Sure there are risks in one year deals Brian.
What if Smoltz can’t pitch or, can’t pitch effectively? They tied up 10 million dollars, 5.5 of it guaranteed, on a guy who can’t help them. That’s money that could have gone toward the Tex deal. Or, toward a catcher.
What if Baldelli and/or Penny are in the same boat? Same result.
When you sign guys with that kind of injury history, one year deal or not, there is risk involved.
The Sox have a minimum of 15 million, perhaps as much as 20 million, tied up in 3 guys with significant injury histories.
At least to me, that represents risk. One year deals or not.
Boston ownership will cringe every July 1st from 2011 – 2026 when they’ll have to pay Manny $1.9375M plus $1M of interest as deferred money with the contract they originally signed.
The Dodgers were not responsible for any part of Manny’s remaining 2007 contract and Boston declined his option years of 2009 – 2010.
http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=895
SJ44,
I know what labrum surgery is and what the rehab time for it is. I’ve had shoulder problems of my own in the past
The surgery Smoltz had can be a career ender for pitchers, let alone 41 year old pitchers.
My point about Smoltz is that he had his injury diagnosed and repaired months ago so his situation is completely different than Schilling’s was last year. Also, if anyone can come back from that injury its John Smoltz.
Lets say he comes back at the end of June and pitches like he can pitch, is he worth the $10 million? ABSOLUTELY.
i suggest and recommend http://luggageforward.com/.
Drive 4-5 …. I agree with you re: Dice-k’s total cost. The posting fee is real money.
However, the posting fee is, technically, not payroll. Therefore, the Sox didn’t get a luxury tax hit.
I think most Sox fans are fully aware that Dice-K is a $100M player.
Patrick,
This is where we disagree. I think the chances of those 3 guys being “great” players for the Sox is slim to none.
Their injury questions are just too big for them to become “great”.
Could they become contributors? Yes. Great? I don’t think so.
They still don’t have a catcher. Their starting pitching is filled with injury questions. The health of Ortiz and Lowell have to be a big concern for them or they wouldn’t have gone all in for Tex.
They brought in 3 complimentary players, who were all stars (and are no longer) at one time prior to age and injury taking their tolls.
Its like looking at the Nick Swisher move, and nothing else, and saying the Yankees had a “great” off-season because they brought in an intriguing complimentary player.
Brian (Red Sox Fan)
I live in Mass and very few Sox fans that I talk to would ever say Dice K cost more than A J Burnett.
Kind of shifting to the topic of contracts as we are…
I can’t believe that either the player’s union nor the agents can be too pleased with the increase in one-year contracts that are being signed more and more of late, especially with the “star” quality, mature players. It’s great for the owners as it lowers their risk of being stuck with another DL ridden veteran or one that finally jumps the shark, but it has to put a damper on the market as a whole. Maybe that’s why so many are left unsigned now? The players want multi-year contracts, the owners sticking to one year offers.
Harang is a way for the nyy to leverage their financial advantage over other teams. The only reason the reds would trade him for a lesser player like nady is to reduce their own financial commitments over the next few years. It would be similar to the arod-for-soriano trade but on a much smaller scale.
As for whether harang would be as good as andy in the playoffs, it seems somewhat irrelevant given they are both being discussed as a possible 4/5th starter. Presumably joba would start ahead of either one of them in the playoffs.
I also don’t see how AH would necessarily block hughes. If phil is clearly mlb-ready, you can always trade AH.
“The health of Ortiz and Lowell have to be a big concern for them or they wouldn’t have gone all in for Tex.”
You mean “almost in for Tex.”
SJ – Let me qualify my positon. Of course there is risk in a one year contract (e.g. Schilling, last year). But it is the absolute minimum risk, and is not remotely comparable to the risks in an eight year contract.
By the way, I was VERY much hoping that the Sox would be owning that risk. This isn’t sour grapes, nor an attempt to claim that the Sox’ recent signings are a viable substitute for Teixeira.
Drive 4-5 …. I’ll make sophistic arguments with the bset of them, but only those that I think are sufficiently duplicitous. So I wouldn’t want to say anything other than the fact that Dice-K cost the Sox $100M. If folks in MA want to say otherwise, they can be my guests.
Having said that, Burnett will cost the Yankees over that if (when?) they continue to pay 40% luxury tax on the base.
But that is a year-to-year total, to be determined in the out years. Dice-K’s is a fixed cost.
Mr. Ex, love Clint. The movie? Not so much.
“I also don’t see how AH would necessarily block hughes. If phil is clearly mlb-ready, you can always trade AH.”
Fair point. But if you get Harong for Nady, by the same token you couldn’t expect to get back more than Nady when you went to trade Harong. And you can’t be sure you’d necessarily get that, because Harong is quite pricy and will get pricier each year.
Whatever you do, you need to leave room for Hughes in 2010. The emergence of Hughes and AJax will be key to payroll control or even reduction in 2010 when you will need to replace Damon and Matsui.
Only the Boston delusionals won’t believe that Matsuzaka’s posting fee wasn’t passed on to the fans either at the gate for ticket increases in 2007-08 or increased cost to view NESN.
It’s their rite of passage as Red Sox fans to be delusional and naive and John Henry is well aware of it being a man so consumed with finance.
Peter, I have used FedEx Ground many times; if you have an AMEX card you get a discount as well. We have NEVER had a problem. Sent ALL luggage and ski equipment. Spent about $125 for 3 adults and 2 kids
I’d be pretty upset if they traded Nady. I’m pretty sure he can play. I really thought they’d try to move Matsui, but I’m guessing there isn’t much of a market and they want to keep the lefty.
Gotta like the giants. It will be a close one though.
harley is spot-on with how Gran Torino was a mess
I was absolutely shocked at how bad and predictable it was. I watched it with two other friends and we were in awe at how poorly constructed it was. the performance of Thao’s sister is easily one of the worst I have ever seen in a major film. the scene where with those three black guys on the street corner? we could not hold in the laughter. utterly horrendous dialogue, laughably unrealistic outcomes, and loads of filler that cannot even begin to justify this movie’s linearly predictable classifications.
in another scene, when Clint dropped the glass about five seconds after the sister came in the door, my friends and I burst into laughter. oh, I know, it’s a very emotional moment… but it’s hard to become consumed in such a horribly acted and developed character. also, when such an emotional scene is ruined by a cliche like that, it’s hard not to laugh when a movie can’t even get a cliche right. And the whole priest figure? give me a break. what a useless character. he disappears for half the movie and then decides to re-emerge when Clint decides to engage in practically one of the most predictable conclusions I have ever seen. the whole sacrificial aspect was unfortunately evident since Clint’s first confrontation with the gang. I understand how some people can force themselves to “appreciate” watching Clint and Thao do yardwork and engage in ridiculously overdone dialogue with other locales, but there have not been many movies where I have cringed as many times as Gran Torino. “Thanks for the ride heeeheehee”
the only thing redeemable about this movie was Clint’s performance, but even that was not enough to stop this movie from being entirely mediocre.
whats all this Harang talk for….Cashman aint trading Nady for Harang,thats plain stupid for both teams
AeroFANatic
January 9th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
>>Swisher will not see any time in CF. By his own admission, that is his worst position.
And that’s fine. But there will be times he will be out there I guarantee you, and even Damon out there for this last year of his contract is not as bad as people make it out to be.
The Reality of DAMON OUT THERE is not as bad as people make it out to be – it’s worse.
Peter,
sorry to be late to this thread (i can’t post while at work) – but I suggest you see The Reader if you haven’t as yet – complex on multiple levels.
skip work, pawn your watch, sell your soul, lie, cheat, steal, do what ever it takes to see Slum Dog Millionaire while its still in theaters. It is amazing and should be movie of the year. Make it your next must see Pete.
hey Pete if you can convince my boss to let me work remotely from florida for a month and you pay for my hotel room, I’ll be glad to drive your luggage down
Pete,
you def gotta see slumdog millionaire definitely the best movie of the year. your football predictions so far don’t look so good, stick to baseball!