Seriously, Carl? Really?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 09, 2009 
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Huge clown New Cleveland Indian Carl Pavano had his feelings hurt in New York according to the Plain Dealer.
Asked how it felt for his teammates to turn on him and for Joe Torre to say he needed to regain their trust, Pavano replied:
“All that stuff only makes you stronger. When you’re down, you expect your organization to support you and not kick you. I had a lot of setbacks in New York. A lot of trials and tribulations. It just made me stronger.”
I better stop there before I get in trouble. Mike Mussina, pick up the telephone.
First!
Um, Carl’s a tool.
What a bum!
Dont come to NY Carl.
Seriously, I was able to give Carl the benefit of the doubt for awhile. It seemed like he was having some bad luck with his body, and I guess you can still say that. But man, that car crash incident? They were right to mistrust him after that.
I wish he had gone to the NL. Then we could play that team in inter league and plunk him
I’m especially looking forward now to that first series at Yankee Stadium against the Indians.
Pete,
See the previous post for my breakdown of Carl’s career in NY.
If I wasn’t so computer illiterate, I’d figure out a way to move it to this blog entry.
Maybe I should take that back, but that guy’s a total piece of work
Over/under on how many starts before he goes on the shelf with a torn labia?
Pavano will have a better year than Pettitte. I think he’ll bounce back. That said, it couldn’t happen here, Yanks had to cut ties.
Somehow, I don’t think CLE will let Carl anywhere near a mound when we play them.
SJ44
January 9th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Pretty nice revisionist history by Carl. But, what do you expect him to say?
“I came to NY because my mother wanted me to play for the Yankees. Derek Jeter hated me because I once hit on one of his ladies. Taking the lead from Derek, the rest of the guys on the team didn’t warm to me. I did make friends with Randy Johnson though! I also didn’t really condition myself well in my first year and got hurt”.
“I proceeded to sit on the sofa in Tampa, eat junk food, watch TV, and not interact with anybody in my second year with the Yankees, except my “pal” Randy Johnson. Predictably, the guys on the team still hated me and I got hurt again”.
“In my third year, when I was supposed to be in Tampa rehabbing, I went back to Jupiter to hang out with a waitress I met at a bar in the off-season. I slammed my Porsche into the rear end of a truck, made sure the waitress wasn’t on the scene when the cops came, and had to inform the Yankees (who thought I was in Tampa), that I was in Jupiter. I also got sued by the driver of the truck and that’s still pending”.
“I then blew out my elbow again, a real injury for a change, and needed a year to rehab. Seeing that it was the final year of my contract, the 4th agent I have had in the last 4 years suggested I really dedicate myself to this rehab if I want another contract in the game. I did and I am in Cleveland”.
May not be the way Carl remembers his time in NY but, the above is a synopsis of his Yankee career.
Teix you want to make me love ya off the bat, BOMB this fool. Hit him like you hit CC/AJ in your battles I’m talking about the least I want to see is 3 RBIs.
Why does Gloria Gaynor’s “I will Survive” not go through my head just now?
Gammons on AJ
“but it will be a very different experience for a guy from Arkansas to go into New York to a team for whom anything but a world championship will be a failure.”
Wikipedia
Burnett- off-season home is in Monkton, Maryland.[8] He has many tattoos, and used to wear nipple rings.[9]
Oh yeah a real country bumpkin, quivering in his boots.
Is Pavano on the DL yet?
SJ:
To copy/paste–
Click your mouse button and hold it down till you select the text you want to copy, and then, if you’re on a PC press CTRL + C, or if you’re me and on a mac, press the Command key (the one with the apple on it) and C.
Then, in the window you want to paste it into just hit Command/CTRL + V.
Tarheelyank:
Joba and someone else wear nipple rings, too.
Someone even told me once what type…
o/t: it is my belief that Peter Gammons is incapable of uttering or writing a sentence devoid of the words “Red Sox” or “Boston”. I can just hear him now, “Bartender, another Tanqueray and Red Sox, please. Boston!”
“Burnett- off-season home is in Monkton, Maryland.[8] He has many tattoos, and used to wear nipple rings.[9]
Oh yeah a real country bumpkin, quivering in his boots.”
Not to mention that AJ has been pitching in the AL East against the Yankees for years now. He knows enough about how we operate that our “must be” attitude will not be a shock to his system.
I’m telling you, Gammons has been off since that health scare he had. Someone needs to get him to a doctor.
I had a feeling that the minute Pavano ended his association with the Yankees and went somewhere else he would speak out about how “unfairly” he was looked upon by the Yankees, the media, and the fans.
I understand that injuries happen in sports, but c’mon Carl, you were hurt so many times and pocketed so much money in the process … what does he think we should all feel about him?
That he tried hard to get healthy but simply could not … give me a break
“must be” should be “must win”
RJ seems like such a nice guy!
“I’m telling you, Gammons has been off since that health scare he had.”
That’s letting him off the hook for being a front-office shill. His writing remains sharp. It’s just incredibly slanted.
Rebecca
“Someone even told me once what type…’
Perhaps a future blog post
I know dont worry Pete, I just posted on this on my blog and I couldn’t believe what I was reading, i went off on him, but I guess it would be unprofessional for you, watch him go out and win 20 now the Rajah of Rehab the great American Idle.
Tarheel Yank: Alas, it’s my belief I was told in confidence
Absolutely ridiculous. This guy stole $40 million from the Yankees for four years doing nothing, I’m disgusted. I hope Moose comes out of retirement just to bash Pavano one last time.
I grow weary….BURN HIM!
That’s Pavano’s picture next to the word “Ass-hat” in your Funk & Wagnel.
Shut up Carl
After that did he pull is mouth muscles and need to go on the DL?
Obviously his brain is already sprained. Second time too, after the initial Buttocks Incident.
Carl’s next stint on the DL comes after pitching for the Indians against Yankees at The Stadium in 2009.
The boos were so loud he went temporarily deaf for 3 months.
Certainly couldn’t make him weaker.
I just read SJ44′s posting about Boston and their signings of Penny, Smoltz & Rocco…..That’s alot S–t to throw against the wall and hope it sticks…..As for the clubhouse environment, it’s a very different world…..
Carl has been weighed, he has been measured, and he has been found wanting.
Can’t believe someone would give this guy any more money..
Carl “Ponzi” Pavano should be his name!!
Cleveland good luck getting returns on that investment!!
Tarheelyank,
Thanks for moving it over for me.
Rebecca,
Thanks for the lesson! I need all the help I can get!
from previous thread:
“The health of Ortiz and Lowell have to be a big concern for them or they wouldn’t have gone all in for Tex.”
You mean “almost in for Tex.”
SJ44
January 9th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Those 3 signings represent names. They all come with big risks.
Those are signings to show the fans, “we are working for you”.
As far as Smoltz is concerned, I’m a huge Smoltz fan. However, you can’t cover up 5 surgeries in 6 years.
Everybody wants the guy to come back because he’s a helluva competitor and great for the game. That said, 42 with his injuries is a steep hill to climb.
I like Baldelli as a player. I think its a great signing for a 4th OF role.
My point is, if the Yankees signed a 42 year old pitcher who has had 5 surgeries in the last 6 years, another pitcher who has a bad shoulder, weight issues, and is an unknown health-wise, and a player who can no longer play everyday due to a medical condition, Peter Gammons would be laughing at the Yankees right now.
Instead, its “How are CC and AJ going to hold up in NY”.
How about, “how are 3 guys who haven’t been healthy in years going to hold up in Boston”?
That’s a more legitimate issue than thinking Sabathia and Burnett are going to melt in pinstripes.
I get that its wishful thinking on the part of ‘ol Pete. I’m just (in vain) looking for him to apply a little balance in his “reporting”.
Especially after the rip job he gave Mrs. Teixeira yesterday.
SJ I hope you dont mind this one and thanks I couldn’t have said it better
What an ungrateful, worthless sack of crap. I can’t wait until A-Rod and Tex go back to back against Pavano and he’s yanked in the second inning. His stuff is garbage.
SJ: No problem!
I’m no computer geek but I’ve got a good handle on the basics, so if you have any other questions I can certainly try to answer.
The injury he suffered when he crashed his car in Jupiter was the point of no return … here he was supposedly working on in his rehab in Tampa, on the fast track to rejoining the Yankees who needed another arm, and he drives out to Jupiter, crashes the car with the girl in it, and bangs himself up.
You cant be driving 3 1/2 hours during the night from Tampa to Jupiter (and that’s how long that drive is … because i have done it … you have to go to Orlando just to pick up the turnpike and then travel south for about 2 hours) when you are scheduled to be doing rehab the following morning.
But it is what it is … and he can now give Cleveland headaches … he is such a prima donna
What?! I guess it really is true that nerve don’t care who has it. He stole 40 million and he’s upset?
I hope Boston keeps spending more and more for “low risk- high reward”.
It’s like having a scratch off lottery ticket and saying hey I COULD win a million dollars. It’s worth it. Low risk -high reward.
If it was such a smart proposition – people would tell their boss – don’t pay me in dollars – just compensate me in lottery tickets.
To take a flyer once in a while is fine – but when you take three of them and then sell it to the public (via Gammons of course) as your winter off season plan – it’s laughable.
Go Theo Go. Pick up Petey, Glavine and Schill too. They were once 20 game winners too.
Sox are in a slight panic mode,I suspect that they fully expect that all three will be needed heavliy this season….
Pavano is obviously a case of someone who didn’t take his profession very seriously. He didn’t take care of his body, and his body didn’t take care of him. I think people were fairly understanding of him until the car accident, or maybe the buttocks injury… His stay with the yankees is one of the mostly comically inept in baseball history, he should just get used to the abuse. I don’t think he even pitched 30 games in 4 years!!!
STRIKE ONE — OH ATLANTA DEPT.: Here’s a little trivia question you can pose to your buddies next time you’re sitting on your favorite bar stool:
Now that the John Smoltz-Chipper Jones tag team has been busted up, after 16 years together, which pair of active teammates has played together the longest?
Ready? Time’s up. The correct answer is … Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, at 14 years and counting.
Whatever the legitimacy of his various “tribulations,” they clearly _didn’t_ make him stronger.
It’s interesting, in terms of how tightly knit sports culture is expected to be, that Mussina’s fairly mild public criticism of his teammate has become legendary. That doesn’t speak too well for the candor of most quotes we read from athletes.
Why then do journalists still quote them so much?
“Randy 1 – I just came back from passing the hat for John Henry, so I was away when you made that politically incorrect remark about Dustin Pedroia, and his ability to catch standing up.?
brian(red sox fan)-
just think for a moment about the plusses of pedroia moving to catcher. besides the fact he can receive the pitches standing up which would make the transition easier , he’ll save wear and tear on his knees from all that squatting he doesn’t have to do. plus he’s really annoying to other team’s players with all those cocky comments he’s always making. as a catcher he’d get to really annoy the other team on every at bat and not just when they get to second base.
the only thing that needs to be done is to have varitek, as a parting gesture, remind him to keep his mask on in fights because that’s a red sox tradition.
i am feeling more confident this winter than last winter when you were very happy with yankee management. it’s an inverse ratio, the more you hate the yankees and their financial clout the more i know they are going in the right direction.
Rishi: Love it.
i try to stay in the least contraversial EPSN blogs
Last night Peter’s provocative post was about Andy P. It generated a firestorm of over 800 entries pro and con on pettitte’s contract fight.
Tonight it is unanimous. Carl Pavano is a slimeball.The blog unites.
“which pair of active teammates has played together the longest?”
I was going to guess Papelbon and this guy:
http://tinyurl.com/6ojbwl
Vrsce: LMAO
Vrsce -
Those comments by Carl even brought me over to “the dark side!” After having given him the benefit of the doubt, I’ve been rudely awakened to the truly selfish nature that is Carl Pavano.
I got a big old glass of STFU with Glass Carl’s name on it! Seriously, someone call this punk an ambulance. WHAT A….nevermind this is a family blog I guess, haha, but I’m sure everyone knows what I’m thinking,
still, what an ungrateful load. thanks for the 26 starts, excrement cranium. Maybe we’ll see you in mid April if you arent too much of a punk to show up!!
…is it wrong that I hope that a bench clearing brawl ensues in the NYY-CLE series so that maybe some justice-minded Yankee (*cough Bruney? cough) can give him the mollywhoppin he deserves!
BBB -
Randy Johnson, I believe, hasn’t set foot in NY since leaving the Yankees. Could be Carl does the same.
“BBB
January 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I got a big old glass of STFU with Glass Carl’s name on it! Seriously, someone call this punk an ambulance.”
***I meant a waaaambulance, lol.
Doreen – Yeah, Johnson had that Clemens family plan when he went to the D’backs, right? But of course I thought he was a wuss regardless for not showing up when the D’backs came to play the Yanks. I dont think Glass Carl will have any such arrangement allowing him to avoid traveling with the team, but I bet the Indians will rearrange the schedule to assure he doesnt pitch against us – assuming he’s healthy when the series is played, that is
Man, how good would it feel to face him and wallop him though?!? But I wont even get my hopes up.
Carl Pavano is the equivalent of a white collar criminal in my mind. He basically stole millions of dollars from Yankees fans and I can’t wait to face him in the future.
I hate this guy and any and everyone named Carl I meet henceforth.
Off topic, I believe the Yanks will find a trade partner in Atlanta for Nady.
Perhaps Nady and a bullpen arm. Thoughts?
Carl played his butt off for us!
Mr. Exceptional January 9th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
“Off topic, I believe the Yanks will find a trade partner in Atlanta for Nady.
Perhaps Nady and a bullpen arm. Thoughts?”
In return for what?
Someone suggested Prado and Johnson the other day. I’m not sure, but Atlanta needs the outfield bat and bullpen help.
Are you kiddin’ me!!!!!!
I’ve been reading (religiously) and posting (not many or often) on this blog basically since it started and try to stay objective, but this has put me over the edge!
That loser, sack of @#$% basically stole $40 million from the NYY and he feels like he was kicked when he was down!!
Gee Carl, sure hope (not) you didn’t invest any of that money in a hedge fund or the Madoff ponzi scheme. Maybe you were “lucky” enough to stick to risky equities.
I can only hope I see the first time the Yanks face him this year. Carl, note to self, watch for the liners back through the box that day! That’s assuming a paper cut, stuffy nose or hang nail don’t already have you on the 60 day DL!!
Braves arent a good match….really think we should get a SS prospect back in any trade,we are real lite at SS in the minors,and how long can Jeter stay at SS
““All that stuff only makes you stronger. When you’re down, you expect your organization to support you and not kick you. I had a lot of setbacks in New York. A lot of trials and tribulations. It just made me stronger.””
Wow you can’t make this stuff up. First its Mangini with “The Browns are perhaps the most storied franchise in the NFL” and now this Cleveland is giving me all I can handle. LMAO
When a pitcher you sign says “I know there is a risk in me”, you know you made a mistake.
Gammons is nutz to suggest “a guy from Arkansas” will have difficultly adapting to NYC. I guess he’s never heard of Bill Clinton.
Phil: You win the Internet.
I hate to plead ignorance, but what was the deal with Randy Johnson. Fans and beat writers speak of him in negative tones. I know he pushed the camera man on his first day in New York, I don’t know the rest of the story. could someone be nice enough to fill in the background
Interesting:
“There were 1,348 players subject to testing last season, according to a baseball official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the figure was not in the report. That was down slightly from 1,354 the previous year.
There were a total of 19 positives from 3,486 tests, according to the report.
There were 14 positives for banned stimulants — all first-time offenders, who are not subject to suspension. Five players were suspended for performance-enhancing drugs.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3822193
SS prospect…hmmm. The Yankees don’t have anyone in the low minors?
Jeter’s not moving for a couple years still, it’s forward thinking though.
any idea what happened to
http://www.justin.tv/
any other URL’s doing the same thing?
It was heaven while it lasted
“I hate to plead ignorance, but what was the deal with Randy Johnson. Fans and beat writers speak of him in negative tones. I know he pushed the camera man on his first day in New York, I don’t know the rest of the story. could someone be nice enough to fill in the background”
right–this is an example of what I mean. Do any of us readers know more than this? There was this incident, and Johnson’s reputation preceded him, but while he was here, reports of problems were few and far between. Now, it seems basically accepted–as if by osmosis–that he didn’t get along with the team and hated it here. Why couldn’t this be put more plainly at the time? It takes an extreme case like Pavano for any candor to emerge through a) the team’s spin; and b) the journalists’ codes.
Mr Torre
January 9th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
“Braves arent a good match….really think we should get a SS prospect back in any trade,we are real lite at SS in the minors,and how long can Jeter stay at SS”
Nady and Veras for CFer Josh Anderson and utility infielder Martin Prado might be a place to start in trade talks. Atlanta needs another bat and pitching.
er, didn’t mean to strike through this bit of my above post:
this is an example of what I mean. Do any of us readers know more than this? There was this incident, and Johnson’s reputation preceded him, but while he was here, reports of problems were few and far between. Now, it seems basically accepted, as if by osmosis
Why are people surprised with Pavano?
He bruised everything else on his body – did you think his ego was immune?
Adios Carl. You’ve actually become famous. “Pulling a pavano” is now part of the American lexicon.
Yankee Trader
what would we need Josh Anderson,Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner with top prospect Austin Jackson for ?
Martin Prado aint nothing special.he aint worth trading for thats for sure
Phil- Gammons is just INCREDIBLY jealous of the Yanks, heck who can blame him
Watch the sob go out and win 18 games for the Tribe….Which he’s capable of doing…..
Mr. Exceptional January 9th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
“Someone suggested Prado and Johnson the other day. I’m not sure, but Atlanta needs the outfield bat and bullpen help.”
If that’s it I think I might rather hang on to him and see what happens up to the end of June. Prado could be good but I don’t think we’re going to move Robbie. I’d hate to move Nady just for the sake of moving him. I guess we’ll see; there seem to be a lot of folks clambering for something to happen with him.
In my opinion, Cleveland sports teams got two losers out of NY this week – Mangini and Pavano. Good riddance to both.
Gammons is a tool.
Boston has taken a flyer on three “low risk-high reward guys” and he’s gushing.
A lottery ticket is “low risk-high reward” too, cuz hey – you COULD win a million – but I’m not asking my boss to pay me in lottery tickets instead of dollars.
I can see taking one flyer on an injured guy – but taking three and then selling it to RSN as a great off-season (via PR tool Gammons) is laughable.
I hope Theo keeps it up. Maybe he’ll spend money on former twenty game winners (and low risk/high reward guys) like Pedro, Glavine and Schill. Prior is out there too.
Go Theo Go. Make it the best Red Sox off season ever… lol
Dear Carl Pavano,
I wanted to inform you that your experimental surgery to have your balls removed has apparently been rather successful. The organization didn’t kick you when you were down. The media did, the fans, did, and you did. Cash always counted you as a possible member of the rotation and it is not his fault that you are a terrible human being. I know that’s a bold statement, but during your injuries(as in thousands) you presented yourself as poorly as you did your few times on the field. You had a rib cage injury from a car crash you didn’t tell the Yanks about. You didn’t do anything Chad Pennington style to alter your contract in hopes of improving the team. You weren’t a leader by any means. And you were the worst investment of money either. A real professional would never diss their old team, especially when the organization always supported you. You should have been a man and said this simple statement “I obviously didn’t perform to the best of my ability during my time in New York, heck I didn’t really perform at all. I am truly sorry and upset that I never stayed healthy enough to be an effective and consistent member of their rotation. I plan to put that all behind me and head into the next chapter of my career with my head held high. I am going to work out vigorously this offseason and I have been working with a personal trainer to help insure that I can keep myself healthy and give the Indians my best possible effort.” That’s it. A 16 year old kid is smart enough to write a simple statement like that, how are you a 32 year old man yet you still act like a disrespectful toddler. You just made 40mm to do almost nothing for 4 years, don’t hate on the team that let you do that. Seriously Carl.
Okay. So scratch some of that, when you read the real article he doesn’t sound as stupid, but the quote that Pete outlined is a tad ridiculous.
I wonder if Gammons is aware that Pavano was commonly known in NY as ” American Idle” ?
If not, I’d like to tell him so I can see those yellow stumps of his.
The man is detestable – the fact that he lied about being in a car accident tells you all you need to know. Why didn’t he just show up to camp unobtrusively? Why would he want to make waves? He just sounds like a complete loser (I wanted to use another word here) and the guys on MLB called him on it.
Going to see Carl pitch is like going to a circus freak show……..or maybe Halley’s Comet, since he only pitches once every 86 years.
As I recall from your writings, Pete, moose was the most outspoken player when it came to Crazy Carl. He was exatctly how Pavano was dissing the organization and his teammates, and he said so.
Carl Pavano has a victim complex on top of everything else. You can’t even bring him to a football game – because when the teams huddle up he thinks they’re talking about him.
That has got to be the funniest blog entry of all time. World’s smallest violin has been brought out for Carl. You robbed the Yankees of $40 million and didn’t do squat. I wish my job worked that way. If anything it is the Yankees and the fans who should feel like they were kicked down.
Is he for real?
you mean he DIDN’T break his index finger after signing his name on that big piece of paper?
All of the Yankees major offseason acquisitions for the past 30 or so years:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ref=sircrc
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Staying to write the story
Tarheelyank: Joba and someone else wear nipple rings, too.
———————————————————
Er… ah… what about you Rebecca?
If Pavano had his feelings hurt, how long a trip to the DL is that?
blah blah blah cral go crash ur porshe again tht would shut you up again
SAVE UP FOR PUJOLS!!!!
Tom January 9th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
All of the Yankees major offseason acquisitions for the past 30 or so years:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ref=sircrc
————————————————–
Thanks for the link.
Oy:
“Starer Andy Messersmith is purchased from Atlanta for $100,000 and becomes Carl “American Idle” Pavano’s ancestor by appearing in only six games for New due to injury.”
Is there a full moon? Gammons isn’t the only sports writer who has lost his mind this week. The latest one is from NY.
I agree with the premise of “Beware the Perfect Yankee”
but Bondy lost me on the why people should beware.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....ankee.html
Wow, just wow, Bondy.
Sigh… it’s too bad that pitchers don’t have to bat in the AL. Pavano wouldn’t know what hit him.
Bondy is on my “do not read anything he writes” list. Along with Lupica.
So what crap is he spewing now?
Rebecca,
Did you really say in the last thread that Harang is an ace and you dont want him because thats not what the yankees need right now or was that my imagination? Why wouldnt you want another potential ace on the staff for 11 mil. Tell me you dont want him because its a three years contract or you dont want to give up a package including Nady to get him but dont say you dont want another ace. That doesnt make any sense …
*I always get a bit wary when I read or hear things about how a player was born to be a Yankee, or how he is made for pinstripes, or how he is a throwback to another era in the Bronx.*
*Because we all know these are code words for: The guy is white! That’s what I kept reading about Mark Teixeira, after his introductory press conference. The Perfect Yankee. Somehow I didn’t read anything like that about CC Sabathia, even though his numbers are every bit as impressive.*
*I’m not saying this is overt racism. I get that Teixeira is a standup guy, and that he appears anxious to play in New York. But I also know that we must be on guard against a dangerous strain of nostalgia that romanticizes the days when the Yankees and other clubs were virtually all white.*
*Some people still want Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle in the middle of their lineup, not Bobby Abreu and Alex Rodriguez – and not just because of the power to right field. When they see Teixeira, they think about the days when athletes weren’t paid too much, when tickets were cheap and when their father took them to games.*
*But that was also an era of exclusion for Latin and black ballplayers, of false standards. These days, the perfect Yankee is somebody of any skin color who can bring back a championship to the city. The Yanks are now a team comprised of Dominicans, Asians and a very reliable Panamanian in the bullpen.*
*When they win big games, they were born to be Yankees.*
========
Mark Teixeira is Portuguese.
Weak article premise is destroyed in mere seconds.
Funny, when I think of the perfect Yankee, I think Jeter, Posada and Mariano along with Gehrig, Mantle and Murcer. I think Bondy is doing a great disservice to an awful lot of Yankees fans.
what a bum mf’er.
OT, but magic leads the hawks 103-60 in the 3rd. damn
Carl pavano is more of a laughing stock than a a baseball player. No one in the world could possibly do any less than he did to earn 40 million dollars. Even when he was healthy, he was a miserable pitcher. That will go down as the worst contract in the history of the organization. Why are we even wasting our time talking about him? I never want to waste another moment after this post thinking, talking or blogging about Carl Pavano. Goodbye and good riddance you worthless waste of space.
I urge you all to actually read the article Pete links to. It’s not nearly as bad as the selected quotes would lead you to believe and had led me to believe. Although you could infer he was suggesting the Yankees organization kicked him when he was down from an isolated quote, when taken along with everything else, it may not be what he was saying. In fact, he may actually have meant the opposite, based on some of the very nice things he also said.
He talks about having some great teammates in NY and what a good organization it is. And the written world has no inflection, no emotion – no “tell” on what a person is actually saying. I’m sad to say I fell into the “soundless byte” trap.
Thank you Vincent (“Certainly couldn’t make him weaker”) and Raymagnetic (“nerve don’t care who has it”) for making me smile at a revolting subject.
Light in the shorts?
For you that enjoy picking fights with your Red Sox friends and co-workers, use this link to post the many times that the Yankees have hammered the Red Sox in trades between the two teams and players that played for both teams, major and minor league. Should make for a peaceful workplace…..GO GET ‘EM, KIDS!!!
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/.....rk_Yankees
Mark Teixeira is Portuguese.
Weak article premise is destroyed in mere seconds.
Yeah I mean I’m not white and I have to say that baseball fans in general are some of the most diverse and open-minded I’ve seen of any sport. And that definitely includes Yankees fans. Teixeira’s the ‘Perfect Yankee’ because he, like Jeter, rooted for the Yanks as a kid and has always wanted to play in New York. It has nothing to do with his skin color.
This special on the 1996 series on MLB Network has only reinforced my opinion that the Yankees need to work something out with Pettitte. Damn, was he great in Game 5.
Things I’ve forgotten about the 1996 series.
1) My god, how bad was the Braves defense in Games 4 and 5
2) And alternatively, How great were The Big Daddy (he deserved the MVP) and Charlie Mays Hayes, both late season acquisitions, in clutch plate appearances throughout that entire series, but especially in Games 4 and Games 5.
3) Torre pulling Mariano in the 9th in Game 4 to pitch of all people, Graeme Lloyd– Grame Lloyd who spurred George Steinbrenner to ask David Boise whether the Yankees could sue to revoke his acquistion from the Brewers.
4) Pettitte having a no-hitter through 5 innings in Game 5 and then in the 6th inning with 2 on and no outs, making that audacious throw to the 3rd to get the lead runner, his pitching into the 9th inning and allowing Andruw Jones to get advance to 3rd in the 9th inning with 1 out.
5) How much S-Wetteland made me sick with anxiety and (how much I wanted to murder Kenny Rogers.)
1998 was great, but 1996 was magical.
Strike that, your honor, 1996 was sublime.
Andy’s 13 years older, Kill
“White” doesn’t exist.
“Black” doesn’t exist.
The whole idea of race is a fallacy used to pit people against each other. Race is a load of horsecrap. There is one race, the human race, and all of this other stuff you guys are posting about is absolutely absurd. Anyone can see the difference between an Italian person and a French Canadian person. To say they are the same “white” race is ludicrous. To categorize “Latin” players as all the same is just as ludicrous. We’re all humans. So cut the crap.
Talk about baseball.
how is Portuguese not white?
doreen,
While its not very nice or honest to take a quote out of context and post it on a blog what he meant is really largely irrelevant. Almost everyone on this blog despises the guy no matter what he says in cleveland. I understand your point but i think pete posted that comment so we could have something to talk about and maybe vent a little after finally be ridden of the 40 million dollar burden. Im sure pete read the article and knew exactly what pavano meant but it made for such good blogging he couldnt resist. Just my opinion
longtime
January 9th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Andy’s 13 years older, Kill
————————————————————
And, he’s still in the top 10% of the left handed starters
in the game, right now.
For a little perspective on andy pettitte’s entire chain of events from entering the organization until now and how we got to this point I recommend reading http://mypinstripes.blogspot.com/.
Its nothing we all dont already know but it puts things in a little more perspective I think.
Yeah, I know but he’s still young, 36? 37?
More kids with inning caps in both the 4th and 5th spots? Hughes will have more than his opportunity either way. He’ll have to fill in for Joba by August anyway once he hits 140 innings. Or Burnett once he lands on the DL.
What other options exist?
Two years for A.J. Sheets? 3-4 years for Ollie?
Give me Pettitte for one-year and I’ll sleep well until April 6.
Has any one heard a single thing on the type of contract sheets is actually looking for?
If we can sign him for very litte guaranteed and make the contract up to 15 million in incentives with a team option for another 15 mil incentive based wouldnt the yankees have to at least think about it. Spring training is getting closer and closer every single day. And outside trading nady/swisher/whoever else for a pitcher or signing someone like Garland or Perez, we are running out of options. This Pettitte thing seems all but finished. No? There is no question we need another starter on the roster. The only question is who. This is one cashman has to answer and quick.
Doreen,
Read this take on what Pavano said tell me what yyou think?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_cle
Ah! A Nick Swisher memory for you all. Daphne, fetch me my pipe?
Yes, well. Here we are. It is summer 2004. I am in Innsbruck, Austria in a most charmingly quaint hotel eating fruhstuck when I immerse myself once again in that classic tome, “Moneyball,” by one Michael Lewis on the exploits of William Beane. Here, I am introduced to the fascinating concept of “the face” and Nick Swisher has caught the eye, nay, the heart of Beane. He must have him. Eventually, the Oakland Athletics do land this fine specimen of athlete. And forever, when someone mentions Swisher’s name, or when I see him play, I am thrust once again back into that dining room in Innsbruck, the smell of ham and jam wafting under my nose, the light hitting Frau Gelke ever so sweetly…Marcel Proust, eat your heart out!
“And, he’s still in the top 10% of the left handed starters
in the game, right now.”
Hey GB, how are you this evening?
I’m not at all wanting to disrespect Pettite, in fact I have even defended him some here.
That being said I’m not sure he would currently be considered in the top 10% of left handed pitchers. Just my opinion but just with New York and Boston most people would say CC and Jon Lester are better now than Pettite.
I don’t have a good grasp of all the left handed pitchers but perhaps we will just agree to disagree on this particular point.
Funny s-it, Frasier Crane, Kudos.
GB,
Pettitte was among the top 10 percent of lefties in the game last season? Is that an actual state or are you just saying he is still good? While I want andy back, i dont see cashman striking a deal. Are they even negotiating anymore?
Everyone,
I dont think sheets will cost us two years unless the second year is an option. Oli may cost us two though if we try that route which I would not agree with. We could always trade for a starter… I still dont understand how people think harang for three years for nady wouldnt be a good trade? The same people who feel like andy is worth at least 12 million, claim Harang shouldnt be payed 11 mil next season because that isnt market value when he is 7 years younger. And who cares about the three years? I can think of at least three ways harang and his 3 years will fit with the game plan?
1. Put joba in the setup and move him to the closer role in 2010 when mariano may be fading and keep the rotation as CC, wang, AJ, Harang, Hughes with kennedy as a backup and long reliever. 2. Trade for Harang this off season and trade him away next year when he has two years left on his contract. two years at 25 mil is an easily tradeable contract and we could get alot back in value for him while shedding payroll and keep the rotation as CC, wang, AJ, Joba, Hughes in 2010. 3. Keep the rotation as CC, wang, AJ, harang and joba for the next few years and keep hughes around as a spot starter, long reliever and backup option.
I know this is less ideal but with the injury risk AJ is and joba not being able to pitch a full season for the next year or even two along with all the random injuries we always have Hughes will get plenty of playing time. This year the rotation will also be that above with joba and then, hughes filling in the fifth spot. There is no holes in that rotation at all and harang could come for a cheap price because of his off year last season.
i’m way late on this but GB7 – i know you’ve seen a ton of minor league games, but do you really think whelan is better than veras, robertson or ramirez (when properly used)? also, i’m glad to see SJ44 back in force after he was becoming reticent to post during the end of the season’s game blogs!
Frazier Crane? When did Paul Byrd start posting here?
Please, no more Joba to the pen talk. I thought Bellvue (sp) didn’t give access to its patients after 10p. Harang isn’t very good. Trading Nady should bring an everyday player IMO
Tarheel Yank -
Well, that more lengthy piece kind of left no doubt that he felt the Yankees didn’t do enough for him.
Thanks.
Dave -
I know Pete give us topics, viewpoints, etc., and we discuss. I just don’t like when I personally jump to a conclusion without first reading the source material, which Pete always provides and I read 99.9% of the time.
“Trading Nady should bring an everyday player IMO”
Hmm…
Did we trade an everyday player to get him?
Did he play better for us or the Pirates?
Now, do you really think we’ll get an everyday player back if we trade him?
Pel,
Was Roy White born to be a Yankee?
Or does the paradox short circuit the answer?
Harang isnt that good? Look at his numbers from 2005 to 2007. I thought we should only trade nady if we get a knockout offer because i like the depth. Nady straight up for harang is a pretty solid offer IMO. He has pitched 200 innings in three of the last four seasons putting up solid era and periphs in each of those years.
He was worked like a dog by baker and even was forced to work the pen in between starts which made him fall apart last year. But outside of the second half of last season, he has put up some really solid stats perfectly capable of pitching out of the fourth spot. We are basically trading an area of surplus for an area of need and a player coming off a career year for a player coming off a subpar year. The two key aspects of making a good trade.
If Cash is offered harang for nady straight up he cant reasonably turn it down. Harang is young, productive and an innings eater being payed 11 mil next year only 1 mil more than we offered pettitte while taking nadys contract off the books. We can think about next year next year but if you want to bring it up – Harang could be traded with only 2 years and 25 mil left on his contract next off season and we could use the money for Holliday or a centerfielder/catcher or other area of need.
I know i regretted bringing up joba to the pen as soon as I said it but I wasnt talking about next season – I meant when mo is no longer capable of closing and their is no decent closers available we could do it. I realize he is more valuable starting than relieving but he may be more valuable as a closer than a starter. No?
The Joba bullpen thing is an IQ test too many people are still failing.
Doreen,
I found it very interesting how the same interview came across very diffrent from the two writers. The MLB guy wasn’t as nice as the local beat writer.
I just bring up pettitte, sheets and trading for harang because we NEED another starter. These are some of our better options. Im not a big fan of oli perez and jon garland and outside of those guys, there isnt much of anything left unless digging off the scrap heap for a fourth starter ie not the best idea. Im waiting to hear what cash comes up with but in the meanwhile I will just keep saying why i think these starters and whoever else i heard of are the best options for us currently.
Frasier-
Dude, that’s your own recycled material. It was funny once again though.
And in 2007 harang had a whip of 1.14 and 218 strikeouts in 231 innings. Still dont think harang would be worth it for nady? How about 52 walks in those 231 innings and 16 wins with 6 losses. I dont know if nady would be enough for him because that is the kind of pitcher we would be getting. In 2007, wang had a whip of 1.294 with 59 walks in 199 innings and he was our ace. I know its in the AL east and not the NL central but the central is no cake walk with the cubs lineup and the mets lineup in 2007. And even if harangs whip for that yr was translated to t he AL east, it still would have been projected as better than wang’s for that year. Imagine that being our fourth starter for only 11 million? That is a knockout punch 1 through 5
dave– I’m out at the moment but isn’t Harang a mid 4s ERA guy? In the NL Central? Should we get an everyday player for Nady? I only mean a position player prospect as the base for a deal. I for one would hold onto Nady for a while, people are always getting injured. Damon and Matsui are always candidates to miss time so having swish and nady is one of them good kind of problems!
Phil
I guess that Jorge Posada, Johnny Damon, and several ex-players and analysts on MLB TV have low IQ’s too then.
There are plenty who would like to see him in the set-up role moving into the closer’s role post-Rivera (and for many logical reasons). There are also those who would like to see him start. Hardly a clean-cut decision either way. Is it possible to have a differing opinion than another poster on a blog and not be charged as having the IQ of a spam sandwich?
Phil,
Joba being our starter as opposed to a setup man is very different from joba being our starter as opposed to our closer. Two completely different arguments. If you started having that little discussion many, many more fans would agree joba would be more useful as a closer. Think about how valuable mariano has been to us over the years especially from 96 to 2000 and think about what the team will be like if mariano is unable to close next season and Brian bruney or Marte pitch the ninth – wouldnt you feel a little uncomfortable with that proposition. My point was if we get harang and at some point mo is no longer able to close, joba could jump into the closer role and we would still have five very capable starters. I was one of the biggest proponents on this blog against joba going to the pen in relief. I want him to be a starter. But if we need a closer – i think id rather have him as a closer than Brian Bruney.
Geez Dave take a break.
These posts are getting painful to read.
You say the same thing over and over and over again in these long-winded drawn out posts.
Go outside, get some fresh air, socialize with the world.
Just take your foot off the gas for a sec.
Brad Pitt’s better looking brother,
Would you let any of those guys do your taxes? Po and Damon are old players who want to use Joba everyday until they retire, they don’t care what’s best for him or the Yanks, they just want to blow him out while they chase another ring. As for baseball announcers, they are some of the stupided people on earth, particularly when it comes to baseball.
I’ll listen to you then Phil.
And Dave,
You seem to suffer from severe loss-of-Mo-is-coming-up-itis. Yeah, let’s waste our best homegrown starter since maybe ever just to scotchguard Mo’s decline and departure. That still doesn’t make the last two or three innings more important than the first six or seven. Get rational about this.
Phil,
Yes you are clearly much more intelligent. That’s why those people are making $$$ talking about baseball and you’re making poo posting on a baseball blog. Congrats.
Brad Pitt’s better-looking brother,
Good thinking. Now change your handle.
“The Joba bullpen thing is an IQ test too many people are still failing.”
I just wanna get on the air with Francesa once and say this-”Hey Mike would you rather a dominant right handed pitcher throw 80 innings or 200 innings?” Thats it I would hope my message was clear.
You’re right Dave, I don’t know what I was reading. Harang’s numbers are definitely solid. I guess the arguments against him are the NL to AL switch (which I’m sure he’d be okay with) but I think I’d rather not block more of our pitching prospects.
Rob
I like the depth too but you have to realize if the yanks are presented with a fourth starter for an outfielder they make the deal because we are trading excess for need. Think about it in terms of wins? Harang is much more useful than having both nady and swisher at the moment. We need a fourth starter and we dont need four outfielders. We can sign a better backup outfielder if need be but we desperately need another starter with Jobas innings limit and no one in one of the rotation spots except the kids. We need the kids and aceves for pitching depths not to fill a hole in the rotation. And moving coke out of the pen weakens the pen. Nady is coming off a career year and Harang is coming off a down year. Thus, the perfect time to make a trade for him and to trade nady.
Last year, was a stumbling block for harang more likely than a trend. He is only 30 and no way is he starting to decline. Fact is, dusty baker pushed him way too hard pitching him relief in between starts and pitching him three consecutive seasons of way more than 200 innings after his rookie year.
Outside of last year, harang has been a rock in that rotation pitching 211, 234 and 231 innings. He dramatically improved in 2007 plavcing fourth in cy young voting. His whip was consistently around 3.8 but his peripherals looked better striking out over 200 batters two consecutive seasons while never walking more than 56 in well over 200 innings. thats a 4:1 K to walk ratio. He lets up about a hit per inning and won 16 games in both 2006 and 2007. Trust me, he will turn it around from last year and revert back to his 2007 form which would translate very nicely to the AL. Probably around a 4 era with 200 innings and a little less than 200 strike outs. He could easily get 15 wins on a yankee team. That sounds like a player worth 11 million. He also fills the need of an innings eater and fourth starter very nicely and is not really an injury risk at all at the age of 30 with only 5 seasons under his belt. That is a not change of pace compared to CC, wang, aj and joba who all come with risks attached to their hip.
i QUESTION if the reds would think nady is enough for him rather than believe nady is worth more. And the reds supposedly have a lot of interest in nady and their outfield is pretty much a mess with hairston, tavarez and bruce i think. Nady would certainly add more to their offense then he would ours. Not to mention, swisher is probably going to get more playing time because of his dramatically higher obp and power, his higher salary and his better defensive play. It would be nice to have a really good backup outfielder but we could get that from the free agent market and it wouldnt have to cost us over 5 million.
Al
i suppose you could make that argument about any dominant right handed closer then, resulting in NO dominant closers.
Closer is one of the most overrated positions in baseball. Why does CC make twice as much as K-rod?
Were we wrong to have Mariano close for us?
Guess he shoulda started too.
These arguments are pretty weak.
I’m losing interest in most of these off-season issues (Pettitte, inflated payroll, Pavano).
I want the season to start already!
we can always trade harand at the end of the year and start hughes and joba with CC, wang and AJ. two years and 25 mil in a trade could net us a decent return if harang pitches well.
Thanks phil. i think you are right. Im out of here. One last thing though – Mo isnt going to be around forever. And where is our closer in waiting or are we going to sign some 30 year old free agent and pay him over 15 million per season? Mo was once a yankee prospect so is joba. Whats wrong with keep joba as a starter and then, moving him over to closer when need arises? Then, hughes can jump into the starter role. Im not saying it has to happen – im just saying its an option if we trade harang and his 3 year contract or we trade him at the end of the year. Either way, I cant see any reason not to make this trade if we can.
Harang really would be a nice pickup, but the Yanks are looking for a one starter as Hughes is slated for next season at the latest…..It’ll all be academic when Pettite resigns……
Rob – closers are not over-rated because when you have a bad one or your closer get injured you realize just how important the closer is. Look at the mets with wagner.
Yeah, 200 vs. 80 good innings is really weak. Sheesh.
“Closer is one of the most overrated positions in baseball. Why does CC make twice as much as K-rod?”
Because CC was overpaid.
hot stove is getting cold again. Time for a new signing/press conference please! I’m thinking Sheets and Manny.
ray (sox fan)
January 9th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
“And, he’s still in the top 10% of the left handed starters
in the game, right now.”
Hey GB, how are you this evening?
I’m not at all wanting to disrespect Pettite, in fact I have even defended him some here.
That being said I’m not sure he would currently be considered in the top 10% of left handed pitchers. Just my opinion but just with New York and Boston most people would say CC and Jon Lester are better now than Pettite.
I don’t have a good grasp of all the left handed pitchers but perhaps we will just agree to disagree on this particular point.
————————————————————
Evening, Ray. All I said was that of the left handed starters in baseball today, Pettitte is in the top ten. He may have slipped for a year in 2008, but, he’s still one of the best of the lefties. As good as Lester was in 2008, and as good as he may get, I’ll wait on him a couple of years, but, yes, Lester was much better last year.
This year, who knows, but, I think he bounces back considerably. With a rested shoulder and that cutter that was missing last year will be there, eating up the right handed batters again. Had the Yanks been able to rest him for a couple of weeks last year, that two month drop wouldn’t have happened. I love watching Lester pitch, though. He’s got a great future, IF…
Right now, Sabathia, Lester, Santana, Johnson, Lilly (maybe), Buerhle, C. Lee (for one year), Saunders, Hamels, Bedard (if he’s ever healthy again). As noted….some are questionable.
Let’s just make CC the closer, Joba can set him up and put Mo in the starting rotation.
Championship
Last one then I’m out of here for the night.
So Phil… by your logic (if that’s the word) you must think that the Yanks were wrong to make Rivera a closer then.
Same argument for Papelbon, KRod, Nathan, etc. etc.
No bullpen needed in your world. Niiiiicccce.
Dave,
Our closer in waiting could be Melancon or any number of the arms we’ve been collecting who have bullpen rather than starting arsenals. It doesn’t have to be decided now. Mo was a bit of an accident who they tried as a starter and reliever before making him Wettland’s two inning set-up guy. We’re lucky he survived that. We’ll probably never have another Mo, but we will have a guy or guys who who’s reliability is above average.
Brad Pitt’s Better Looking Brother,
They tried Mo as a starter and preffered him in the pen. He’s not the horse that Joba is and wasn’t the starter that Joba has already shown himself to be.
Extract five starts and with a better performance behind him and his numbers would be most outstanding…..He was brillant in the first half, had a rough stretch and then pitch alright considering his shoulder was stressed…..GB7 is right , in fact looking at some of those pitchers mentioned he’s still better than some of them…..
yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965?
January 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
i’m way late on this but GB7 – i know you’ve seen a ton of minor league games, but do you really think whelan is better than veras, robertson or ramirez (when properly used)? also, i’m glad to see SJ44 back in force after he was becoming reticent to post during the end of the season’s game blogs!
————————————————————
Actually, Whelen has a chance to be the same type of pitcher as Veras, only younger. They both have a bit of a control issue, but, Whelen can be good….real good. Veras does have a bit of recognition, so, he’d have more value in a trade.
Brad Pitt– You and others are creating a straw man argument. It isn’t that nobody should close and you should put your worst pitchers there but that if your best pitcher is capable of starting he should start. Mo was ineffective as a starter. Joba was flat out DOMINANT as a starting pitcher. Papelbon can’t handle the stress to his arm for an entire year of pitching in the rotation (according to some) so he has to close, and do a damn good job of it. If Nathan could throw 200 innings and be as great as he is at closing, he would be a starter. If Joba can’t handle the workload he will be a wonderful closer, but he should and will be given every opportunity to start.
Why is the closer role overrated? Todd Jones stinks, and he converted 18/21, George Sherrill had a 96 ERA+ and STILL converted 31/37. Twelve of the thirteen closers in the American League had a .720 closing percentage or better, and even Mo blew one. So Mariano Rivera, greatest closer of all time didn’t save one opportunity he was given and Todd Jones only missed 3. Meanwhile the variance in result from Joba Chamberlain to say what a SP with a 96 ERA+ would be a world apart.
My point is that a mediocre closer can get the job done an close most games. He won’t kill you. If Joba’s spot in the rotation has to go to the much maligned Sidney Ponson? You can probably call to the pen by the 3rd inning for Joba, “you have the night off buddy.”
http://hosted.stats.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=13
How about firing Francessa and holding a press conference to announce the new signing? How is it that the Yankees have the best everythign and yet we still ahve to put up with Francessa?
Franscesa might be crazy but half of the time he says things that most people here fail to admit.Like how many people here actually believed Hughes,Kennedy and Joba in the rotation would be a wise.
And how dumb people actually believe Hughes should be our 5th starter.
So what did Gammons say about Mrs. Teixeira?
Rob
Like I said way back when this started, both sides have an argument. It is those who are too – what’s the word?- immature? to see anything but one side and then to ridiculously claim higher knowledge than Posada, Damon, Torre, Girardi, et al that bring this and other discussions down to grade school level.
Also, the only point some had was 80 innings vs. 200 innings. It’s hard to even begin to deal with logic like that.
Joba is not quite a proven major league starter yet – he is a proven top-flight reliever. What’s more, he was put on the DL after becoming a starter. Further, he is already said to be having his innings as a starter capped at about 150. The other half of everyone’s argument that he remain a reliever is not his ability to pitch as a starter- it is his ability to stay healthy as one.
If it came down to Joba or Ponson in the rotation I’d be leading the Joba train! But it doesn’t. Not yet. It is January. There are other possibilities that still exist.
Maybe Joba will be able to be a dependable, durable, quality starter. I hope he can if that’s his role. But if one can’t see the energy he expends on every pitch and consider last year’s DL stint and not at least question whether he and the Yanks would be better served with him in the pen… then I guess reasonable discussion with that person is over.
NHYankee62
January 10th, 2009 at 1:10 am
So what did Gammons say about Mrs. Teixeira?
* * * * * * * *
Gammons said Leigh Teixeira didn’t care to shop on Newbury St. in Boston.
Why should she shop there when she can shop on Fifth Avenue in NYC ?
We paid this bum almost $275,000 an inning over the last 4 years and he wants a HUG?
Bite me Carl