Pinch hitting: My Baseball Bias
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- January
- 12
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January is traditionally a slow month for baseball news. So for the second year in a row, we will showcase other blogs with a series of pinch hitters.
Next up is Jason from My Baseball Bias.
Jason is originally from Bradford, Penn., (birthplace of Hall of Fame pitcher Rube Waddell) and currently lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. He idolizes Don Mattingly, worships Phil Rizzuto and is a classically-trained opera singer. He works for the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City as principal Cantor and serves on the music staff of the prestigious Madeleine Choir School.
Here’s his post:
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Much has been made of the Yankees’ new cathedral being built at East 161 St. and River Ave. in the Bronx. We’ve heard the 1,500,000 square foot, 50,800-seat stadium will contain an Indiana limestone exterior, the replica frieze – a staple of the original 1923 structure, removed during the ’74-‘75 renovation – and the gigantic Mitsubishi Electric Diamond Vision HD LED video scoreboard that sits nearly a 101 feet wide and 59 feet tall with 8,601,600 LED lamps.
In true Yankee style, the Steinbrenner family promises a first-class, premium atmosphere for fans to enjoy their beloved Yankees. As Old George put it: “This new ‘Home of Champions’ will preserve the architectural integrity of the original Yankee Stadium, while incorporating modern amenities.”
And while the Yankees dazzle us, however, with “modern amenities”, it looks like they’ve failed to incorporate any bold ideas when it comes to building a stadium that is environmentally responsible. In what could have been a model for future sports stadiums all over the world, the Yankees have decided that bigger and more expensive fit their brand better than a cost-efficient, environmentally safe and sustainable structure. What a shame.
Reading through many of the public statements regarding the new stadium since the groundbreaking ceremony in 2006, one finds nary a mention of the word “environment” or “green design elements” from anyone associated with the Yankees or any city/state officials. Moreover, we learned recently that the building of new parkland in the South Bronx, as stipulated in the Yankee Stadium Redevelopment Plan is behind schedule, causing many in the community to question the commitment to neighborhood revitalization. Unfortunately, Googling “new Yankee stadium” with “green” returns more references to cost overruns than to the environment.
I’m perplexed why the Yankees didn’t follow the lead of the Washington Nationals. In March of 2008, Nationals Park became the first professional sports stadium awarded an LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) Silver Certificate by the U.S. Green Building Council and became the first “green ballpark” in the nation. Even the Mets and the Giants/Jets new stadiums, while not seeking LEED-certification, have incorporated sustainable features in their plans. The Minnesota Twins are also building their new stadium to be LEED-certified. Why not the Yankees?
I attempted to contact HOK Sport, who was responsible for the Stadium’s new design, but I have yet to hear back from them. It’s rather interesting that HOK designed both the Nationals ballpark and the new stadium in Minnesota. I also reached out to Stephen T. Del Percio of greenbuildingsNYC.com, who mentioned that Turner, the contractor building the new Yankee Stadium is a prominent sponsor of the USGBC.
With all of this overlap, it’s surprising the Yankees weren’t at least interested in the idea of building a stadium that could, among other things, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, conserve energy and water, reduce waste to landfills and provide a healthier place for it’s roughly four million annual visitors while reducing operating costs.
What a missed opportunity.
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Interesting post, Jason. Thanks. If anybody from the Yankees cares to respond, I’ll happily print their side of it.
Coming tomorrow: Dan from River and Sunset.
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on Monday, January 12th, 2009 at 12:09 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Wow, Jason, this post is excellent. Thought-provoking and possible to cause a stir if anyone from the Yankees’ organization sees it…
I am shocked to hear, if your reporting is accurate, that the Yankees have not made an attempt to make their new Stadium ‘green’ given how much of a hot-button issue it is right now.
I am very interested to see the Yankee reply…or any arguments that the new Stadium is, in fact, environmentally conscious.
An interesting and original post.
Well done.
Thanks Rebecca. Notice I said “looks like they’ve failed to incorporate…”. They may have, but I’ve yet to find anything in print. According to Mr. Percio of http://greenbuildingsNYC.com, the Yankees have been very tight lipped about the stadium. My feeling is, if they were going to incorporate green features, why not outwardly promote that? It would be great press, right? Especially now when they’re requesting another $370 million dollars from the taxpayers.
“I’m perplexed why the Yankees didn’t follow the lead of the Washington Nationals.”
There’s a sentence I never thought I’d see.
There’s now Metro North access to the Stadium, which ought to keep a fair amount of cars off the road. Google that.
“Especially now when they’re requesting another $370 million dollars from the taxpayers.”
To put a finer point on it, the Yankees are not requesting any additional funds. They are requesting more bonding capacity from the city, which means the city (or one of its agencies) would issue the debt on the Yankees’ behalf, but the Yankees alone would be responsible for debt service.
Lots of reporters get this wrong, but they should know better.
I have to admit – i started reading and thought “Oh no, another cheesy guest post about the nostalgia and history of the old stadium and bringing in the new.” I was pleasantly surprised to read a very novel twist on the new stadium subject matter. Great job jason. I enjoy your blog as well.
Great post, and I feel bad that idiots are going to slam it.
Jason, nice post, well written and an interesting perspective. I like the fresh approach. I have no idea how accurate or thorough it all is, but this is just the internet!
My D.C. cousin went to a game at the Nationals’ new stadium. He said it stinks and he probably won’t be back.
westy-
While this is indeed true regarding Metro North, the Yankees have refused to contribute a dime to it, even though they’re one of MN’s biggest beneficiaries. Nor have they trumpeted the MN project as a win for the environment.
When the Nationals opened their stadium, they deliberately created “less” parking spots to encourage the people to take transit. What have the Yankees done? They’ built three new parking garages that total close to 4,000 spots. This is on top of the 5,700 already in use.
Also, let us not forget that the Yankees are building the stadium and the garages on public parkland. We’ll see if they keep their word to revitalizing the area around the new stadium.
I think the public has come to expect a certain amount of green features from BASEBALL STADIUMS! Also, aren’t the Yanks building some diamonds for kids as part of their project?
Pat wrote:
“It’s Andy Pettite or Hughes…..I really doubt that they’ll bring in someone from the outside….They only need a starter for one year…..I thought a Brad Penny would have sufficed in that regard, but his innings ( possible lack of ) wouldn’t work…..I still say Pettite will be back….”
The whole point was – what if its not pettitte or Hughes because it very well could be neither. Who woud you want that is still on the market or romr a trade? We need a year of a pitchers so hughes can start when he is ready – we cant push him into the role again this year. The yanks HAVE to learn from their mistakes. They cant commit the same one again this year as they did last year as that would just be foolish.
Great post! I would love to hear a response from the Yanks.
Phil: They’re supposed to, but they can’t until the old Stadium is razed (dear g-d that’s going to be a horrible day!)
However, they won’t raze the old Stadium until the new one is completed and then some, meaning that the fields won’t get built.
It’s kind of awful, really…
Dave I understand your point well….But every pitcher you name is or will want ( Sheets ) a multiyear contract and this blocks Hughes from the rotation in 2010…..
Rebecca,
Melancon is all but untouchable as the only in-house pitcher with the potential to be the closer in waiting. I was thinking more along the line of nady, aceves/ steven jackson / Chase Wright and a bullpen arm for harang because the reds need right-handed power in the corner outfield/first base spot and cheap, young pitching who have some major league talent to fill their third, fourth and fifth spot in the rotation. I think those three could thrive against NL lineups and most likely they wont have much of a future in the bronx with the rotation filled for years and the pen stocked with arms. Not to mention, Harang’s value is waay down after last years mediocre performance and nady’s value is up after his best season so far. I think it is likely we could get harang for cheaper than we could last off season. What do you think?
Pat,
We could always trade the pitcher away after a good performance if we get the player from a trade or try to give the pitcher a very high incentive based salary and option years rather than multiple years if we pick the player up off the FA market. Obviously, That wouldn’t work with everyone and I have no clue outside of Lowe what the asking price is of any free agent pitcher currently on the market so who knows? But if we trade for a pitcher, we could always trade them away at the end of the year, with a multi year deal esp if they are coming off a good season. What team doesnt need starting pitching every off season? Im just saying every situation is not going to be ideal but we shouldnt let that stop us from acquiring another arm. That is my thought process anyway.
dave: It’s not enough for Cincinnati’s #1 starter.
Ask yourself this:
Who would the Yankees want for Sabathia? The Red Sox for (a healthy) Beckett? The Jays for Halladay? The Angels for Lackey? The Padres for Peavy?
Then you’re talking.
Aaron Harang is not an Ace!
Jason, I believe with the old stadium, the city controlled and got money from the parking lots/garages. Is that true with the new one as well? If so, well, there’s why they added parking.
great post! best in 2 years!
one of the responses got me though:
“To put a finer point on it, the Yankees are not requesting any additional funds. They are requesting more bonding capacity from the city, which means the city (or one of its agencies) would issue the debt on the Yankees’ behalf, but the Yankees alone would be responsible for debt service.
Lots of reporters get this wrong, but they should know better.”
this is inaccurate. ‘bonding capacity” means the city borrows the money, gives it to the yankees and the yankees pay them back. that means quite clearly they are asking for more public funds, which they promise to repay.
lots of posters get this wrong, and they should know better.
Neither is Wang
Nick and Brandon: LMAO!
Rebecca,
Is harang really as good as those guys on a mediocre team in an inferior league coming off a bad year? Riveraveblues seemed to think that nady plus a few prospects would get the job done and i dont think they were talking about melancon or AJax. I have no idea what the reds would want but i dunno if it would be the same asking price as Halladay… And they seem to think very high of nady. obviously neither of us know exactly what they are looking for but it seems to me that they would prefer major league ready players over prospects right now. Thats why i went with guys like aceves and jackson over lower prospects who have higher ceilings. Perhaps, kennedy, nady and aceves would get the job done? But then of course, we start digging into our own pitching depth.
It would be nice if there were a decent pitching option to hope for outside of pettitte’s return. I for one, am not too excited of signing garland or looper. And i think this last spot in the rotation is going to become more important then everyone thinks it is currently. moose started as our third starter and his performance was critical to us last year. Who would have thought that in March? If AJ is out for any significant length of time, this starter spot the yanks have yet to fill becomes extremely important for us.
volquez is cincy’s ace, he went 17-6 last year. harang went 6-17
there’s this kid in the Marlins named Josh Johnson. He would be awesome but the price would be high.
Lackey is a free agent next winter….Nick In SF……UCLA won by 4 covered the 3….Thank You College BB
Harang was an ace for the reds, it just was NOT last season. Another words, he ain’t what he used to be at least in terms of trade value.
Lackey is going to get a lot of money next off season.
Id rather have harang than josh johnson everything else being equal
“Lackey is going to get a lot of money next off season.”
the Angels will keep him no matter what.
Dave and Jim: Harang was hurt last year, hence the bad record.
Halladay’s Blue Jays weren’t very good, and yet Halladay is still considered an ace-a team’s really got nothing to do with it.
However, the team’s stadium might-Cincinnati’s ballpark is a bandbox, so if Harang was to pitch in a park closer to league average, it’s very possible that you’d see an improvement in his numbers.
I can appreciate the fact the you care about the environment and wish the Yankees followed the LEED approach. However, the Nationals new ballpark is so unimpressive that I feel bad for all it’s fans. We should all be happy the Yankees didn’t build a piece of crap like Washington’s park.
I live in Minneapolis, and the new Twins ballpark is looking pretty sweet, I’m hoping it turns out well, good to know that they are trying to meet LEED specification.
“Id rather have harang than josh johnson everything else being equal”
why? because Johnson isn’t a veteran and he didn’t pitch 200 innings?
Skippy,
It looks like the city will receive about $3.2M annually in rent and cash payments in lieu of taxes from the garages. More can be found here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=0
Wojo: How are you all gonna handle the lack of a roof in April?
AWESOME post, my friend!!
I loved the Nats new stadium… but that’s beside the point.
… Also, IMHO, the Yankees should have been required to build the park space well before they were allowed to build the stadium (they could have found that park space throughout the city, and, in addition turned Yankee Stadium into a museum). We all know that they can’t be trusted to actually come through with their plan to turn Yank Stadium into a park!
Does anyone think the Yanks are trying to get rid of Nady because Andy’s not coming back,so they wan’t pitching.. and have something up their sleeve for nadys replacement? because I don’t like the fact that were trusting Gardner and Melky.. What if they both slump, were screwed..
the average daily high temperature in april for minneappolis is the same as in boston, 56.
Ed
We need an innings eater and harang is much more likely to pitch 200 innings than johnson. I also think harang is a little better and more experience at 30 years old which probably makes him more suitable to pitch in a rotation composed of pretty young guys for the most part.
Rebecca,
i meant his team is mediocre and he is making a decent sum of money so they would be more willing to trade him and get back more young cheap guys to fill out the lack of a rotation they have. I think they would rather have three young starters making league minimum who can all give them decent innings than one potential ace and they already have their ace in volquez. They need two or three more starters to fill out the backend of the rotation.
Harang was hurt last year because dusty baker drove his arm into the ground by pitching him in relief in between starts. There is no guarantee for the reds that he bounces back to the year pior type numbers. Basically, if we give three young starters like aceves, jackson and wright plus nady plus bullpen help for harang we are filling many of their needs by just losing one player who wasnt all that great last year. Even as a reds fan, that deal doesnt seem like such a bad prospect for a team that has so many holes. I may be wrong but on the other hand …
my dream stadium plan was to build the new park adjacent to and attached to the old one. they could use the old one occasionally and could have sold overflow tickets to the old park for postseason games which would have paid for the upkeep. call me a dreamer….
It might seem like jim jones has all the answers, but don’t drink the kool-aid.
all the answers AND those kool shades….
i was in d.c. for the cherry blossom festival last year and walked around the nats new stadium the day before it opened. it looked pretty cool, but i didnt go inside, so i cant tell anything about that. the big selling point was the view of the capitol building, but it looked like there are so many buildings going up between the capitol and the stadium that few if any will be able to see the capitol from the stadium in the future.
jim-
interesting choice for a handle.
“the Yankees have refused to contribute a dime to it, even though they’re one of MN’s biggest beneficiaries. Nor have they trumpeted the MN project as a win for the environment.”
Every company located in NYC, the Bronx, Westchester and CT also benefits from MN. How much have they all contributed to Metro North improvements through the years? Transportation projects, no matter who they may indirectly benefit, are usually publicly funded projects. If anyone should be trumpeting the MN project as a win for the environment it should be the MTA because they are the ones who own the station, collect the revenue and have the most to gain from it.
Great post, Jason. I never thought about the environmental aspect of the park, but now that you mention it, I really want to know what the Yankees have so say. With all the energy the park will use, it would be awesome to have some sort of solar energy system, don’t you think. I mean, when there’s no one playing there, solar panels could soak up sunlight and get energy, then for the games, much of the lighting and electronics could possibly be powered by that energy. (I don’t know if this would actually work, but it sounds plausible and potentially very energy efficient.
transportation projects are usually taxpayer funded, but almost no buisnesses get to borrow over a billion on the city/state’s credit card to build thier facility, either, so for the yankees to act like the MN station isnt part of the stadium project is questioinable.
Matt, the Yankees already have something that absorbs all available sunlight which is then converted to raw power in odd-numbered years. You know him as Arod.
JMM – I think part of the reason that there’s more parking spaces is because the Yanks are no longer targeting us “mass transit” riding public.
They want people who want to be seen showing up in their Benzes and BMWs.
The rich folks who are going to watch games here will drive.
Jason is now the second excellent guest blogger.
He took a topic we’ve been discussing for a couple of years now & put a completely different spin on it.
As Rebecca said– “Thought-provoking and possible to cause a stir if anyone from the Yankees’ organization sees it…”
And as Ryan said– ““I’m perplexed why the Yankees didn’t follow the lead of the Washington Nationals.” There’s a sentence I never thought I’d see.
Totally right on, Jason made me stop & think. Great stuff!
I have just added “My Baseball Bias” to my short list of Yankee bookmarks.
I know it’s not PC, but who care how “green” the new Stadium is. All I care about is that the Yankees are building a state of the art facility that will help them continue to spend $$$ on prime players.
Also, Jim Jones is dead wrong on the bond facility. First off, the city does not borrow the money. A city agency applies for the financing, but the repayment is backed by the revenues of the Yankees only. Here is how it works:
The NYC Industrial Development Authority applies for an application to issue the bonds, which permits them to be tax exempt. The tax exemption does not refer to what the Yankees pay…it means people who buy the bonds do not need to pay interest on them. This allows the Yankees to pay a lesser interest rate because investors do not have worry about taxes cutting into their profits. All municipal bonds are structured this way.
Even though the NYC IDA issues the bonds, the city does not back them. Instead, the Yankee pledge revenue streams to support the repayment. A bond rating agency assesses the Yankees strength and then rates the bond quality. The IDA sells them to the public and the Yankees pay back the principle with interest.
The arrangement is considered a PILOT because the team is paying back that loan, but taxes aren’t being assessed on the interest. One calculation I have seen for the city’s lost revenue is $6mn. Estimates for how much revenue the Yankees bring into the city far exceed that figure, explaining why the NYC would want the Yankees to stay within the city limits (and specifically, the Bronx).
Because it is likely that even the Yankees couldn’t afford to build a $1.3bn stadium (the team will be paying $50mn/year to pay down the debt under the current plan) without the tax-free financing, the city had two options:
1) Deny the Yankees assistance and hope they don’t pull their economic activity (taxes, jobs, etc.) out of the Bronx and the city.
2) Help the Yankees, retain their presence in the Bronx for at least 40 years (likely longer because the Yankees pay a huge penalty if they don’t stay longer) and have a world class facility to host other events.
If the City calls the Yankees bluff in #1, it stands to gain about $6mn per year in tax revenue.
If the Yankees aren’t bluffing, the City loses millions more than the deferred revenue.
Considering the low reward and high risk, it makes perfect sense why the Yankees would get some help from the city.
People need to understand the facts before making sweeping statements.
This is a completely outlandish thought…but I just read that Michael Young has requested a trade from the Rangers because they have told him he will be playing 3rd base next season. I think everyone can admit that Jeter’s defense, while certainly acceptable, is not getting any better. Young won the Gold Glove just this last year, and he certainly produces at the plate. Might it be time for that position change that some have been asking for for Jeter? Center field seems pretty wide open right now. I know we have spent a lot of money this year and the front office might be reluctant to add Young and his 80 million over the next five years. But Young would significantly improve the defense AND you would have AWESOME production from each spot in the lineup. Its only adding 14 million to the payroll and you could dump off Swisher and/or Nady plus a couple decent minor leaguers. That would probably offset the cost enough so that it would be just like adding something close to what Pettitte would receive. THINK ABOUT IT CASH!!
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ankee.html
http://volokh.com/posts/1216150117.shtml
We need some global warming for the end of this week temps dipping into the teens
Jim Jones, I love your Kool-aid
interesting trivia – only 2 of 240 playoff teams had a 35+ ss.
Orioles with ripkin(96)
phillies with bowa(81)
brooklyn only team to win pennant with reese in 56
ripken my appologies to the HOFer
“this is inaccurate. ‘bonding capacity” means the city borrows the money, gives it to the yankees and the yankees pay them back. that means quite clearly they are asking for more public funds, which they promise to repay.”
Nope. It’s the Yankees’ debt pure and simple. The debt was issued by a municipal conduit, but the Yankees are ultimately responsible for repayment. It’s not like the city handed over a chunk of money from it’s general fund, which is how most writers make it sound.
And by the way, I wasn’t being snide with JMM, it’s a financing point that most blogger wouldn’t know. I get annoyed when Espn reporters make the mistake.
Jason -
Absolutely awesome post. I’d be interested to know whether the Yankees respond. It’s not something I even thought about, even though I do try in as many small ways as possible, to be at least environmentally aware.
Al -
You know, I live in central New Jersey, where there is no public transportation locally. To take public transportation to the Stadium I would first have to drive to a train station. I live between two of them, but both are 20 minutes away from my home. They have limited parking, and during the week, it would be difficult at best to get a parking spot at the time I need it because the people who work in Manhattan would not have left yet.
Then I have to take a train to Penn Station, then transfer to whatever train it is that gets you to YS. The entire process is neither time nor cost effective for me. I am not rich. I do not drive a Benz or BMW. I do not need to be seen. But for me and my family, driving is the most convenient way to get to the ballpark. It would be about an 8-hour endeavor for us to take public transportation to and from the game, figuring the game lasts about 3 hours and I’d want to get there a little early. 4 p.m. to midnight, I figure.
So, I guess what I’m saying is that I think it’s a good thing that the Yankees have parking garages to accommodate those of us who do not live in areas with the amazing access to public transportation that many New Yorkers enjoy.
Oh, just saw the Will wrote a better post defending my point.
Nice post. Going green is the new thing.
doreen, i come up from philadelphia, drive to hoboken, park there, its easy, then take the path to the subway. i miss the bridges and the parking lots, etc, i save most of the parking dollars, and if its a day game, i get off in the west village for dinner before i get back on the path train. it takes a while but sometimes is still faster than driving and its much less annoying. i havent tried the amtrak to the MN, but i might give that a shot this season (if i get tickets).
“Even though the NYC IDA issues the bonds, the city does not back them. Instead, the Yankee pledge revenue streams to support the repayment.”
who is responsible to pay the bonds if the yankees default?
ugh .. not a fan of the green movement. Let me rephrase that – helping the environment and all that stuff is great, but obsessing over it – not a fan
“who is responsible to pay the bonds if the yankees default?”
The Yankees are ultimately responsible for payment. If they fail to pay, the bonds would be in default, period. I believe at least some of the bonds are insured, but most of the insurers fell apart with the subprime disaster.
I think it’s important to get this right because so many writers have said something like: ” How can the Yankees spend a HALF BILLION on players yet ask the city for money.”
That’s no what they’re doing – they’re paying their own way using a form of financing that is pretty typical.
ham fighters -
Wow! I’m impressed. That is a trek. I like your idea of getting off and getting dinner before continuing home. And I suppose for a night game, you could also break it up by getting into the City early and finding something else to do.
It is a day trip, though, isn’t it? Which is part of my point. It’s not “just” going to the game.
And you do have to drive part of the way. We could drive to either train station, or we could drive to the Bergen park-ride, or we could even drive to Hoboken. We would have to pay for parking there. We wouldn’t have bridge tolls, but there is still the NJTP. Then we’d continue on whatever public transportation was available at that point.
It’s definitely doable, though; you’re right.
I was simply pretty annoyed that Al would make that blanket statement that the parking garages are for the rich people going to the game. (An argument could be made, however, that the garages are for the lazy people, like me, who don’t want to do an A-to-B-to-C-to-D trek, though.
)
Good post. Lets spend some more money and put a solar collector dome on the new stadium. That way we can power the lights and scoreboard and I will never worry about a game being rained out. It is such a bother paying $1500 per ticket for my family of four only to have the game rained out….
Actually section 11 Row X seats 7,8 behind Bob Ucker
Didn’t the Yanks follow the Nationals lead in their pursuit of Mark Teixera?
yes, going to a yankees game from philly is a day-trip pretty much no matter how you slice it. stopping in manhattan to eat is a great way to break it up.
i started doing this after driving to the stadium started taking almost 3 hours each way, almost half of which occurred within 20 miles of the stadium. thats just way too much stress for me.
the last game i drove to we ended up entering the stadium in the bottom of the 3rd inning. (im not an l.a. fan, i keep a scorecard). when i pay what i have to pay for yankees tickets, i want a full game and i dont want to spend 45 minutes getting out of the lot after.
jim jones and hamfighter -
Come to think of it, the hassle of getting to the Stadium is the reason why we haven’t gone to a game live in a while.
Perhaps next time we’ll try the half road-trip, half public transportation method. (We’re determined to get to a game either this season – HA! – or next – ha?)
Anyway, I wonder if the Yankees even did a study of what the costs would have been to build a more environmentally friendly stadium? It would be interesting to know if there are any nods at all to incorporating “green” ideas into the new construction.
Or, I wonder if it would have set the construction back a bit time-wise, and was time of the essence here? (In other words, George is around to see it?)
I doubt the Yankees will address this subject unless forced to – there’s no way they’d come out looking like “responsible citizens,” no matter what they said.
However, I do want to say that a lot of people give lip service to the environment. It is the movement of the moment (though I truly hope it’s more enduring than that). People who have the means continue, for the most part, living their lives as they always had, but assuage their consciences by purchasing carbon offsets.
Perhaps the Yankees are doing that?
who cares if it is not environmentally efficient. the nats have one of the most blandest stadiums out there.
yeesh.
**And by going to a game live, I mean physically attending the stadium rather than we’ve shown up dead.
Although, after the ordeal of getting there whether one drives wholly or part of the way and then negotiating an unfamiliar public transportation system, one could say that it would be possible to show up “dead” – mentally and physically drained, that is!
What can I say? The new YS looks spectacular – I’m in love with it already. It really looks like the old YS – I hope to get to a game or two this year.
Green is the new brown, brown being the color of bullsh*t!
FYI- Joe Torre is signing at Bookends in Ridgewood, NJ
http://www.powerpg.net/bk/feb09.html
Here’s another thought — did the Nationals, et al., have to build “environmentally friendly” stadiums in order to get their funding? Was it a condition of whatever deal they had to make to get a stadium built?
jennifer -
How was your weekend?
jmm- You know not everyone in the metro area can take public trans to the stadium. I live in Bergen Co. It would take me two hours to take public trans to the stadium, as opposed to driving 15 minutes to get there. Now which do you think i’d do? Take a train to secaucus junction, transfer onto a train going into NYC. Walk up to Grand Central, take the subway to the Stadium, and do the reverse going home.
jennifer -
No one has sympathy for us drivers in New Jersey!!!!
AROD fan
They had to replace park land that was lost in the Bronx. They can’t go replace it elsewhere in the city.
Jason, how is the new Yankee Stadium damaging the environment? You never explained at all in detail the exact reasons. Were you trying to say the huge LED screen which would be used for about 5 hours each gameday is going to waste more energy than the 8 hours each day an American watches one of their HDTV’s? Also, what greenhouse admissions? The only greenhouse admission I know of that take place during a baseball game is the methane released by fans.
Yawn.
There’s reports saying the Yanks and Nats are in trade talks about Swisher and Nady. Who would you guys want in return? Prospects? Lastings Milledge or Elijah Dukes?
Pittsburgh Pirates: Trade Nate McLouth, and Trade for Yankees’ Nick Swisher
http://piraterevolution.com/20.....isher.html
Doreen
If you are referring to the Mussina dinner, it didn’t happen yet. Now for another two weeks. If you are just asking it was pretty good. Thanks, and yours?.
jennifer – why did I think it was this past weekend? Well, anyway, I’m glad you had a pretty good weekend. Mine was pretty good too.
Doreen- Gayle thought the same thing.
jennifer -
Good to know I’m not the only one with a foggy memory!
Jason excellent post. (As I write this I am watching a 2008 televised production of Cosi Fan Tutte conducted by Daniel Barenboim – described as “set against the background of the hippie era.” I mention this because I noticed your background. Yesterday I watched Jackie and Hillary and so it comes full circle…)
In any event, in a world where the dangerous effects – current and projected – of global warming are well known, I think it behooves all of us to be aware of what we can do to help the situation. I also think it is irresponsible to do otherwise when presented with an opportunity the scale of building a “state of the art” baseball stadium. (I actually worry about things like melting glaciers and rising oceans!)
Again, great and thought provoking – and disappointing to learn that it was not part of our upcoming vaunted cathedral.
any news on the HoF?
The new stadium may or may not be green (probably not) but think of all the people using mass transit to get there.
Is there another stadium in the country that has more car-less customers or transit options serving it?
HOF announcement is 1:30 Eastern today on the MLB Network.
Great post. Finally something thought-provoking. Not to sound like a Yankee PR rep, but I have to imagine the Yanks thought and will continue to think about how to be as energy efficient with their vision for the new stadium as possible. First, I’m sure the Yanks wouldn’t mind saving some money where applicable. Second, anything energy efficient that they could pull off would mean positive press for them. I don’t live in the Bronx so it’s easy for me to say the heck with the parkland, leave the old stadium up as a museum…but I don’t know where else in the Bronx they would build that parkland they promised. Still, landmarking the old stadium as a museum, perhaps as a “pay to play” baseball field as well, that would certainly be another source of revenue, if handled properly.
I’m also one who hasn’t been to the stadium in a couple of years, for several reasons. One of which being the cost and hassle of driving from eastern long island. Taking the LIRR isn’t exactly convenient…either way is expensive and annoying. So I’ve always driven (a Hyundai, NOT a Benz…), with the exception of the one time when I took the LIRR to Penn and then the subway. Ugh. If there’s an easier way, I’m all ears.
Does Rice make it in? I think he does; however, I don’t think he should.
Matt, the Yankees already have something that absorbs all available sunlight which is then converted to raw power in odd-numbered years. You know him as Arod.
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LOL
I was gonna say, maybe they figure Cano saves enough energy that they didn’t need to do anything else.
It is fascinating how the “sporting” press distorts out of true ignorance some rather basic financing mechanisms and misleads the equally uninformed public.
Good post. Rob, the mere fact of building a new Stadium implies environmental degradation. A simple conversion factor to remember is that one new brick = ca. 8 gallons of gasoline. Old buildings represent a tremendous amount of embodied new energy. Replacement buildings, especially on this scale, require the importation of lots of equipment and materials.
The idea, then, to offset the tremendous cost (environmentally) of new construction is not outlandish. Further, Yankee Stadium is a hive of activity, even when games are not on. Concessions must be delivered on a constant basis. And a tremendous amount of water (which I imagine is not recaptured or recycled) is used to keep the field in prime playable condition. When you consider that the lights are many times brighter than those you use in your home (you can pick out the Stadium from several miles away, at an altitude of 38,000 feet), it makes sense to begin thinking about how efficiently the lighting system works.
A building like Yankee Stadium operates on a schedule, but it must be available to meet demands on it at unscheduled times. There is therefore near-constant large scale expenditure (at least from April to October) to meet this demand.
To be fair, LEED certification is meaningless. It’s a sop based on credentials that are arbitrary. It’s a giveaway to developers to make projects politically saleable. Rehabilitation and adaptive reuse of old buildings (no matter their intrinsic inefficiencies) is almost always more “green” than building new, particularly given an industry standard of building for a shelf life of 30 years. Until LEED recognizes renovations, it’s a worthless distinction.
Jason nice post. One thing about the LED scoreboard, isnt LED technology energy efficient? It will be nice to hear a Yankee response.
Sorry, but I find Jason’s post completely unpersuasive. First, he admits (in his 12:22 post) that he doesn’t actually know what “green” design elements have or have not been incorporated. He just couldn’t find any reference to the subject in the materials released to the public. Despite this, he proclaims that “the Yankees have decided that bigger and more expensive fit their brand better than a cost-efficient, environmentally safe and sustainable structure.” Quite a leap, wouldn’t you say?
Even if Jason had reason to believe that the Yankees consciously set out to construct an environmentally unsafe facility, his whole approach to the issue is naive to the point of being infantile. Specifically, he ignores the possibility that building a stadium that would satisfy his standards for environmental friendliness would have involved tradeoffs, such as increased costs, construction delays, aesthetic problems, space limitations, etc. He seems to think the Yankees elected not to “go green” because they actually prefer to waste money, have a crappy stadium, and pollute the environment. In other words, he he seems to believe the Yankees are a whacked-out environmentalist’s caricature of Evil Corporate America come to life.
It’s apparent that neither Jason nor anyone else here has the information or expertise necessary to evaluate the environmental reasonableness of the new Yankee Stadium. Presumably, the facility will fulfill the requirements of all applicable codes and permits, or the construction wouldn’t have progressed to this point. If someone wants to make the case that the Yankees owe it to the world to do more in this regard than the various agencies of government require, be my guest. But please be aware that your care and concern for the environment, while touching, is no substitute for facts and logic.
McClouth will not make it to 30 yrs. old at CF, 180 lbs likely peaked out last yr. and will regress, was amongst the worst defensive CFs in all of baseball why…. forget it.
“There’s reports saying the Yanks and Nats are in trade talks about Swisher and Nady. Who would you guys want in return? Prospects? Lastings Milledge or Elijah Dukes?”
Milledge no question about it but I’d put him in RF and work him to death in practice.
They won’t even have VIP parking spots for people who drive to the new Stadium in electric cars!!!!!
For those of us who dont get MLB Network, does anyone know if the HOF announcement also is going to be broadcast on the HOF website like last year? Thanks.
Byme326– I read your post quickly and thought they had traded for him, lol. While I’m not as down on him as Brandon is, I’d rather not trade for McClouth either. Especially if they want teams to blow them away for him.
RobNY -
If you read the article – it doesn’t actually say the Yankees should get McClouth. What it says is the Pirates should trade McClouth to whoever, and then trade for Swisher from the Yankees, with the Yankees getting prospects and/or a bullpen arm, which some guy from ESPN thinks the Yankees still need.
I’m really down on players that average under 4 P/PA in the NL and is 180 lbs and has had a history of not being an effective hitter, learning a new league, new pitchers..com’on.. how many Pirates have the Yankees attempted to make stars already and how has it panned out ? Unless he is a 5 tool grade A or B+ prospect I don’t want to hear that team’s name in discussions w/ us.
Joe Torre signing in Ridgewood? Dude, that’s awesome! I may have to make the time to go to that…
SJ44
HOF announcement is 1:30 Eastern today on the MLB Network.
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And for those of you will decry that Ricky Henderson was left off some HOF ballots – In previous votes in first year of eligibility:
43 writers failed to vote for Mickey Mantle, 23 for Willie Mays, 36 for Jackie Robinson, 9 for Hank Aaron, 31 for Roberto Clemente, 57 for Yogi Berra, 23 for Stan Musial, 20 for Ted Williams and 28 for Joe DiMaggio.
Amazing.
LMAO Arod is dating Kate Hudson.
P.S. do we really want Rickey to choose us.
At least Hudson is a step up from Madonna…
the leadership of the yankees just aren’t with it as far as something that is ahead of the time they are in. take a look at hal’s poofy hair from the 1980’s, hank’s chain smoking and fast food lifestyle, and cashman’s dorky golf shirts he wears in spring training that are on the sale rack in golf pro shops all over florida because no on else will wear them.
in short, the yankees ownership and upper management are not cool. they are behind the times by at least a decade. baseball is a pastoral sport at it’s roots, so it’s a natural to get creative with it as far as green possibilities.
green possibilities could merge with financial for example, auto companies who are advertising green cars might be more inclined to go with a team that had solar panels covering the roofs of a stadium.
a building like yankee stadium is so visible it could set an example for other urban projects, but when you have an owner like hank who doesn’t even care about his own health and is statistically likely to die young because of his lifestyle, why is it a surprise that he doesn’t care about a healthy trend for the environment?
personally i think the best thing for the environment would be to blow up fenway park and put in a beautiful urban open space in it’s place.
the red sox? contract them.
Should the Yankees trade for Michael Young and move Jeter to CF? What do you guys think?
A”t least Hudson is a step up from Madonna…”
Good point. Both have tallies though.
“Should the Yankees trade for Michael Young and move Jeter to CF? What do you guys think?”
He’s not moving to CF, he can’t get to his left in the infield you want him cover RCF ?
From reading these posts, it’s surprising a lot of Jersey fans don’t seem to know how to get to the Stadium on the subway! Haven’t you watched the subway races?
Considering how long it takes to get out of the YS parking lots after a game, not to mention the traffic on the Deegan, try the following:
Drive your car through the Lincoln Tunnel and park in the Port Authority parking garage. That has two advantages – you don’t have to deal with NYC traffic and when you get your car after the game, you can go right into the Lincoln Tunnel without waiting. (Warning – the Port Authority lot closes at 1:00AM.)
Go downstairs and take the A or the C to 59th, then transfer to the D. Do the reverse going home.
(If you want to be greener, take the train to Penn Station and do the same thing. Whatever you do, don’t walk from Penn Station to Grand Central to catch the 4, unless you just want to stroll through Manhattan.)
I would have thought this common knowledge, but I guess not.
covering*
ARod is really dating Kate Hudson? Awesome, I love her…HUGE upgrade over Madge! Kate is even cuter than Minka Kelly if you ask me…finally, Alex found an area where he could beat Jeter! Ya know, besides hitting and defense
“He’s not moving to CF, he can’t get to his left in the infield you want him cover RCF ?”
He might not be agile enough for shortstop but he still has some good speed
The Yankees have the pieces to deal from among Juan Miranda, Chase Wright, Ian Kennedy, Steven Jackson, and either Edwar Ramirez or Jose Veras.
This will be a year that teams won’t necessarily wait until the 7/31 trading deadline to lower payrolls.
Someone on RAB suggested Rickey should do his entire speech in the third person.
Rebecca agrees with this.
also, just to chime in on the whole getting to the Stadium from Jersey thing…I come from Bergen County and I usually just drive to the NY side of the GWB and park somewhere in the 170’s and then jump right on the subway on Broadway from there, I think it’s the A train, then take it down to 145th and change to the D to the Stadium. There might even be an easier way to do it w/o changing trains, but that is usually the way I go and I highly recommend it to anyone coming from the GWB side of Bergen. Much quicker than anything else I’ve ever tried (bus, train and driving the whole way)
“Someone on RAB suggested Rickey should do his entire speech in the third person.
Rebecca agrees with this.”
BBB also wholeheartedly echoes this sentiment.
“He might not be agile enough for shortstop but he still has some good speed”
The minute he runs into an OF our miscommunicates out there or bangs his shoulder Aaron Rowand style into the wall your going to have NYC ripping the heck out of the Yankees, the ideal spot for him is LF, since he use to reading the ball from that angle, and it’s not as difficult as CF.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Staying to write the story
January 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Someone on RAB suggested Rickey should do his entire speech in the third person.
Rebecca agrees with this.
————————————————————
Do you really think that we wouldn’t anyway. The catchers and umpires tell some great stories about Ricky talking to Ricky at the plate.
“Should the Yankees trade for Michael Young and move Jeter to CF? What do you guys think?”
are you crazy? if the yankees had both, between them, they could more than cover the shortstop position.
all kidding aside , it’s just common sense that a 6″3 shortstop is not going to be as quick and cover as much territory as he would in his mid twenties. jeter really should move like robin yount did when the time was right to another position.
left field seems to be the most likely destination by default. he’s not going to play first or third and center field might be a stretch because he’s waited so long to move.
“Someone on RAB suggested Rickey should do his entire speech in the third person.
Rebecca agrees with this.”
Brandon told Brandon that this would be an interesting thing to watch.
CORRECTION: Do you really think that ***he*** wouldn’t anyway?
BBB: From Bergen County I’d take NJ transit to Penn, then the A to 59th and the D to the Stadium, or, in other words “follow the throng of Yankee fans”
Should be much easier getting to the Stadium from Arthur Ave, however.
Comparing the move of Yount and the proposed move of Jeter to center field, doesn’t take in to consideration that Yount was 30 years old…not 35. Jeter would have to move again in at least 2 years.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Staying to write the story
January 12th, 2009 at 11:25 am
BBB: From Bergen County I’d take NJ transit to Penn, then the A to 59th and the D to the Stadium, or, in other words “follow the throng of Yankee fans”
Should be much easier getting to the Stadium from Arthur Ave, however.
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At first glance, I thought the reference was to following a bunch of Giambi fans when I read “following the ***thong*** of Yankee fans.”
Wave Your Hat -
Subway riding is not intuitive to me. I grew up on Staten Island. It was the express bus into Manhattan or the SI Ferry and then walk (if you worked downtown). It’s really a daunting system for someone who didn’t grow up using it.
At one point I worked on Lexington Avenue in mid-town. At the time I was living in NJ and I had to take a train from Grand Central and then somewhere to pick up the PATH train to Journal Square and then on from there – bus or car (if I was running late in the a.m.). I memorized the particular way I had to go, but was and remain clueless about the rest of the subway system.
I have been on the NYC subways, but it’s not a comfortable thing for me – and by that I mean, I don’t really know where I’m going, so I don’t want to miss my stop, etc. It’s like being in a foreign country!
My daughter is going to school out in Long Island and has been getting into the city on the LIRR to Penn Station, but even she hasn’t really ventured on the subway too much yet.
I tell you, if you grew up with it, it’s got to be a beautiful thing. But if you didn’t, it’s just an underground maze. So, I’m reluctant.
However, chances are pretty good that upon graduation my daughter, who does not drive, will be living either in LI or Westchester Co. Therefore, we are going to eventually have to learn how to navigate the system.
wave
i park in hoboken for free and dont pay for the lincoln tunnel, take the path and switch to the subway.
Not sure why but the Boston press is still carrying on their obsessive coverage of Mark Teixeira.
Michael Silverman had another column on the subject today focusing on how the Sox relationship with Boras has deteriorated. Silverman actually says that the sox are now finished dealing with Boras:
“The Sox, meanwhile, are, at least for now, done with Boras. One well-placed source said the club will never deal with him again unless it can be guaranteed that talks are being conducted honestly.”
I don’t believe that for a minute. Sounds like more sour grapes. Like him or not Boras’ client list is too large to ignore. It’ll be interesting to see if the Sox make any kind of play for Matt Holliday next year.
Silverman’s summation of how what happenned with the Sox and Tex in negotiations does seems like a balanced very reasonable and I think he sums the situation up well:
“It is way too simplistic to say that the Red Sox failed to pony up enough cash, but there is a good argument to be made that the Red Sox did not place the proper value on Teixeira and never went for the kill. Maybe they could not get over a history of antagonistic negotiations with Boras. Perhas some portions of the face-to-face negotiations with Teixeira in Dallas could have been handled better, with Teixeira reportedly put off by insinuations from the Red Sox about his agent and other offers.”
It’s now almost cliche to say that the yankees “bid against themselves.” But most of those sentiments don’t take into account opportunity cost and the value of getting a deal done and finished.
The Sox didn’t seem to value that much in those negotiations. People snickered at the yankees “bidding against themselves” for Sabbathia but if they hadn’t gotten that deal done before the Angels pulled out of the Tex negotiations CC very well may have cost them more than $160M or they may very well have lost him to the Angels.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....p;srvc=rss
“… doesn’t take in to consideration that Yount was 30 years old…not 35. Jeter would have to move again in at least 2 years.”
gb7-
agree totally, which was i said jeter should go directly to left. left in yankee stadium needs someone who can run so jeter would be more than adequate there.
the problem would be whether his hitting would be enough for the position. at short his hitting is a plus. left field is another matter.
Derek Jeter will not switch positions.
“The minute he runs into an OF our miscommunicates out there or bangs his shoulder Aaron Rowand style into the wall your going to have NYC ripping the heck out of the Yankees, the ideal spot for him is LF, since he use to reading the ball from that angle, and it’s not as difficult as CF.”
I think people love into the wall type plays(it helps if he doesn’t get injured, which I think he is smart enough to avoid),and Jeter has excellent baseball instincts If anybody can do it he can.
Is there any historical comp. regarding a infielder moving to the OF?
YFan -
Bobby Abreu was smart enough to avoid into-the-wall type plays. But I think it’s been characterized as wall-phobia.
Jeter dove into the stands after catching a fly ball a couple of years ago. I don’t think smarts has anything to do with it. It’s momentum and it’s the getting the out at any cost, which I think Jeter does.
In any event, I don’t think Jeter will be in CF.
“i park in hoboken for free and dont pay for the lincoln tunnel, take the path and switch to the subway.”
I never thought of that. Thanks!
CB: Jeez, you’d think they’d get past the middle school juvenile grudges, I don’t know, back in middle school…
A 35 yr. old CF w/ no knowledge of CF is not a pretty thing to watch, he can have instincts at SS but the minute you start running hard for 30 – 40 yards momentum takes you where you go at that age.
“Derek Jeter will not switch positions.”
if he doesn’t , this should help his range:
http://www.hoveround.com/combination-e.html
theres a difference between avoiding injury causing collisions with the wall and being afraid of contacting it. abreu mispleyed alot of balls avoiding contact that could have been caught. he wasnt as bad about it as some people say but to say he played the wall well because he avoided it is not true imo
i dont want them to move derek now, but…
he has great baseball instincts and reads fly balls better than just about any IF i can think of. i dont think the transition to either OF position would be difficult for him at all.
but i say leave him where he is for this year.
“if he doesn’t , this should help his range:”
Autoset to the left.
ham fighters -
I wasn’t applauding Abreu’s wall-avoidance by any means.
Although I don’t like people abusing the planet or wasting valuable resources, I think this “green” thing has gotten WAY out of control! This “global warming” debacle is clearly a manufactured “problem” that of course takes a LOT of money to deal with! Want to find the real truth? Follow the money! Who is actually profitting from this? Many, many scientists are coming out publicly to say that the planet goes through cylical changes in solar conditions, which is actually the cause of heating and cooling of the planet. Right now we are actually in another cooling trend. If you don’t believe that, come and visit us in Wisconsin!
I’m looking forward to vising the beautiful new stadium this season! I will have to drive 2 1/2 hours to Minneapolis, fly 2 1/2 hours to JFK, take the shuttle to the hotel, hop on the subway closest to wherever we decide to stay and wait expectantly for that first glimpse of the stadium! Can’t wait!!!
brandon-
the only problem i see with the hoveround is when jeter wants to do his patented jump throw deep in the hole. as long as he doesn’t fasten the seat belt i guess he could still do it.
G.R.: And who profits from saying that global warming doesn’t exist?
Money trail goes both ways, my friend.
wave, i know it sounds stupid to spend $150 for two tickets then cheap out on paying the toll on the tunnel but going to these games gets so expensive its crazy. what i do is if the traffic at the north end of the jersey turnpike is heavy sometimes i get off and park in newark and take the path from there, there is a free lot across from the station. if the traffic is lighter i go to hoboken and go from there.
randy, losen the belt he can jump off the seat and add even more ummmmp to his throw.
Jeter is a net plus at shortstop, despite his defensive issues. He’d be a net liability in LF.
It would be nice if Derek were better defensively, but you have to take the bitter with the sweet sometimes.
As other posters have pointed out, it will be a huge issue after 2010.
randy l
January 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am
”… doesn’t take in to consideration that Yount was 30 years old…not 35. Jeter would have to move again in at least 2 years.”
gb7-
agree totally, which was i said jeter should go directly to left. left in yankee stadium needs someone who can run so jeter would be more than adequate there.
the problem would be whether his hitting would be enough for the position. at short his hitting is a plus. left field is another matter.
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I agree that a corner outfield is Jeter’s best/most logical move. I’d be more inclined to put him in right field, though. It would depend on who was playing the other corner. Obviously, it the other player was a Matt Holliday, then right field is the most sensible. If it was an Alex Rios/Markakis type, then left field would be his best spot. Before anybody gets crazy about those three names, I’m only using them because the positions they play.
And, I’m sure everyone knows that Jeter is not likely to move until his next contract. That also brings up a potential issue…does Jeter agree to the move for the betterment of the team, or, does his ego get in the way?
Randy, I’m not overly concerned about Jeter’s offense when playing left/right field. When you get above average offense from other positions, it’s really not a factor, unless Jeter’s offense drops so low that he’s a detriment no matter where he plays.
“Want to find the real truth? Follow the money! Who is actually profitting from this?”
greenhouse gasses, exxon/mobil ring any bells?
ham fighters-
The reason I like the Lincoln Tunnel and the Port Authority, even though it’s kind of expensive, is that I can get home so much faster. Having to wait for the PATH and then taking it to Hoboken or Newark would take a lot longer, it seems to me.
Very interesting post. Green is becoming more significant in the design/construction world. There are varying degress of ‘greenness’ in every design/construction project. Even a simple house structure than incorporates sun, wind & water energy and recycled materials is still going to be a degree ‘non-green’. To optimize it with consideration to practicality and the client’s budget is the challenge.
Of course we know the client’s budget, in the case of the stadium, is rather significant.
Among positive things that might not be taken into account as ‘green’ are the metro north station. More people can get to the games by way of mass transit, which means driving only to their local metro north station and taking an electric train to the stadium rather than driving all the way to the stadium. Agreed it’s not a complete green approach but at least it’s something.
Hearing back immediately from HOK Sport may be a lot to ask. I work for a small architectural company in Westchester. There are schedules and deadlines on an ongoing basis, so interviews on such a topic may not be as immediate a priority. That’s certainly not to say they’re blowing you off or dodging the topic. They’re just busy architects, not politicans or pure environmentalists. But PR is also important so I’m sure someone there would soon get back to you and be happy to talk about the topic of greenness. But let them find the time.
Perhaps a better way to approach the issue of greenness in a specific project could be to approach the client who paid for the service instead. There is a degree of moral obligation towards the environment on the architects side, but how the client wants to approach their specific project is a very big part of it.
“When you get above average offense from other positions, it’s really not a factor”
A lot of people think that way, but it really depends on what you pay for it. In Derek’s case, it will be too much.
He should continue at SS through 2010, but after that, I think the jury is still out.
yeah i may try that if i go to a night game. i usually only go to day games now so i dont have to rush or get back in the middle of the night.
what is amazing is how easy it is for me to go to see the phils. my friend picks me up at 630, we drive the 10 miles, park and are in our seats for the anthem. i only wish there was a subway near me in ne philly but id have to do a long bus to get to the subway.
Rebecca:
You’re right! Back in the 70s (where I come from) the big “future disaster” was the coming ice age! The temps were dropping an we were told that unless we did this or that we wouldn’t survive the new ice age. Then the temps warmed (as they do, in a cyclical pattern) and now we are in for warming disaster of global proportions. I’m waiting for the new “ice age” doomsdayers now that the temps are beginning to fall again!
Like I said, I don’t believe in wasting resources or abusing the planet, but to go overboard, especially when I’m sure there are environmental laws that the Yankees had to abide by just to get the building plans approved, is really a non issue. For me anyway! But to each his own soapbox!
im 50 and i dont remember any serious discussion of global cooling or an ice age. they were just beginning to get the hang of el nino, but there was no global cooling scare.
Wave Your Hat
January 12th, 2009 at 11:56 am
“When you get above average offense from other positions, it’s really not a factor”
A lot of people think that way, but it really depends on what you pay for it. In Derek’s case, it will be too much.
He should continue at SS through 2010, but after that, I think the jury is still out.
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That’s what I said…he won’t be moving until the next contract. As a matter of fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t keep him at shortstop until he becomes the only shortstop in history to collect 3000 hits, and this includes Honus Wagner, who played over 900 games at different positions.
Still say from where I am in Jersey (edgewater) the best thing to do is drive. I get to the stadium for when gates open dont have to deal with traffic, parking problems etc. Leave depending on the score when Mo is warmimg up or if the Yanks are blowing someone out leave after bottom of 7th. DOnt hit traffic then I am home in time to watch the post game on YES and all is good.
One of these days there will be mass transportation from New Jersey where you do not have to go into the city to take it. Why not a NJ Transit bus is it that difficult to do??
It would take me upwards of 2 hours each way. That is over 4 hours just to get to and from the Stadium if I took public trans.
Driving it take me 15-20 minutes, leaving maybe an 1 hour, still better than over 4 hours.
ham fighters,
If you do use the Port Authority for a night game, be sure and give yourself enough time for the traffic at the Lincoln.
By the way, I went to a b-ball game at the Wachovia Center in Philly this weekend and went past Citizen’s Bank Park – it sure looked nice and the access to it looked super.
The biggest problem with Jeter isn’t that he will likely have to move from shortstop, it’s that you can’t just go to Jeter and say “hey, we’re playing you in left” or wherever.
Such a suggestion would likely have to come from Jeter himself first.
ham fighters
January 12th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
im 50 and i dont remember any serious discussion of global cooling or an ice age. they were just beginning to get the hang of el nino, but there was no global cooling scare.
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You didn’t have discussions like this when you were living through the last Ice age?
leaving before the game is over is not an option for me, iv never done it unless there was a long rain delay(and iv stayed through most of them, too)
last time i drove there the car moved exactly .9 miles in the first hour we were in it. (still had to drive all the way back to albany). never again.
Wave–
Citizens Bank is great stadium and great parking. There is plenty of parking but that has always been the case with the stadiums in Philly. The only time that was not the case was with the Old Vet when they were building the Bank.
One of the things they have going there is that they basically have a huge stadium complex between the Bank, The Link and the Wachovia Ccenter/Old Spectrum there are a tons of parking spots available.
I have to laugh at the Red Sox new stance on Scott Boras.
For the last 3 years, they have told everybody they talk to in the industry how they know how to “control Boras” and that’s why they deal with him.
Funny, they didn’t have a hard time dealing with Boras when they helped tamper with him to get JD Drew out of LA.
Or, depending on who you talk to (and if you believe them), told Boras in advance their bid range for Dice-K. Something, BTW, that’s in direct violation of the bid rules.
They got their panties in a wad because they messed up that Thursday meeting and they need a villain. Boras is the easy pick.
The Yankees, despite public pronouncements to the contrary, were PI$$ED as hell at Boras for the Gerrit Cole fiasco.
Yet, they put that stuff aside to do a deal for Teixeira.
The moral of the story? The player, not the agent, are the prizes in these things.
If a team chooses not to do business with a certain agent, its certainly within their rights to do so.
However, if that agent has player(s) you need, you just cut off your nose to spite your face.
Somehow, I doubt the Red Sox won’t make a play on Matt Holliday (a Boras client) next year if Jason Bay moves on. I’ll believe that when I see it.
Good negotiators/dealmakers get deals done. They even get them done with people they hate.
Those who let their egos get in the way? They don’t make deals.
Something the Sox need to remember as they continue their “We didn’t get Tex because his wife and Scott Boras don’t love us” whinefest.
This billion dollar Bronx behemoth was built more like a Battlestar than a ballpark.
More luxury boxes are going to bring in the only kind of green the stadium was designed to produce.
They should have just kept the old bird the way she was, at best maybe fix the plumbing, throw on a few solar panels, and change the bulbs. That’d be more green than trucking in all that “Indiana limestone.” Although the new MetroNorth station is, unintentionally, the only green feature of the entire undertaking.
Nice post. Go (g)Nats.
How about including some examples of how the Nationals’ stadium is “green”?
It was a well written post, about a unique topic (to me at least). But I’m really interested in what exactly is “green” about some stadiums, and not “green” about new Yankee Stadium.
Ham,
I have a friend who kept copies of the newspapers we used to get in school that talked about current events and news. It was in there alright! And I lived through some of the temps, too! Here in Wisconsin we had 30-40 below BEFORE the windchill during some of the winters. You’re younger than me at 50, so maybe you wouldn’t remember, but it’s true!
I once heard that a good manager can always get along with a .400 hitter. I’d think that good management should always be able to find a way to get along with Scott Boras.
Ham–
Maybe I am just lucky or because of where I am going it just doesn’t take me long. For example the last game of the season I stayed until the bitter end, the celebration etc and it took me about 4o minutes to get home. I have found that rather than using the Deegan I cut across the bridge (there are a couple of them )and then go up the Harlem river Drive to the GW rather than use the Deegan entrance which is always backed up.
PS I do the same going to the stadium. I get off on Harlem river Drive and cut across. Makes for much better traffic scenario.
G.R.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Ham,
I have a friend who kept copies of the newspapers we used to get in school that talked about current events and news. It was in there alright! And I lived through some of the temps, too! Here in Wisconsin we had 30-40 below BEFORE the windchill during some of the winters. You’re younger than me at 50, so maybe you wouldn’t remember, but it’s true!
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Ahhh..somebody else that remembers “The Weekly Reader” from grade school.
Put me in the camp of people who think moving Jeter is not going to be as painful as people think.
Jeter has NEVER said he wouldn’t change positions. People just assume he won’t.
I don’t know why because the guy isn’t a selfish player.
Fact is, the Yankees don’t have anybody better to play SS right now than Derek Jeter.
When his contract expires (I agree with GB. That’s when changing positions may be on the table), it will get worked out.
I don’t think there is any way Jeter isn’t a Yankee for life. I also don’t think he’s going to put up the stink some fans think he will when its time to change positions.
When that time comes though, the Yankees have to have a guy who is better than Jeter to play that position. Right now, that’s not the case.
I also think his most likely landing spot will be in LF.
im a news junkie and although i do remember some people espousing ideas like global cooling back then, there was no scientific consensus that anything like that was happening.
there is a scientific consensus that the earth is warming and that it is likely caused by greenhouse gases now. there is debate but little doubt about the overall concensus. besides global warming there are very serius issues regarding air quality in new york city which is poor to terrible. and there’s water pollution in the catskills were nyc’s water comes from, and some of ny state’s most beautiful places have been devestated by acid rain.
this is present, up close and personal. the only thing thats theoretical about it is when people will do something about it.
“I don’t think there is any way Jeter isn’t a Yankee for life. I also don’t think he’s going to put up the stink some fans think he will when its time to change positions”
I agree, but from a PR standpoint, it might look better if Jeter’s the one that volunteers to move, instead of the Yankees outright telling him to do so.
SJ44
January 12th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I also think his most likely landing spot will be in LF.
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Yeah, left field is his likely spot, unless the Yanks add another Holliday to their calendar.
brian, he was limited in space, going further on a tangent about another stadium would have detracted from making his point imo.
Greenness when considering the area’s infrastructure gets complicated too. To what degree are the Yanks or HOK Sport or the city or the state obligated (morally, legally, or finanially) for other secondary projects related to the new stadium? If there are other spin-off or follow-up projects involved there has to be consideration given to the planning, logistics and funding of those before finalizing a complete view on the greenness of the stadium project. A lot of that could be partly or entirely on the city or state or even other entities, and not necessarily on HOK Sport or the Yankees. It does get complex, and perhaps it could be more so in NYC than other areas.
There was absolutely a belief among scientists around the mid-1970s that the Earth was heading into an ice age. What did not exist at that time was any well-financed, organized call for wholesale economic changes to forestall the impending calamity. Of course, back then, they didn’t give Nobel prizes in the field of demagoguery, so that may be a factor.
I remember going to a Yankee Spring Training (when they were in Ft. Lauderdale) and saw Robin Yount. He may be a model for a Jeter move.
Also, with Jeter’s bat, and I believe he will have a nice bounce back year after the wrist injury, even as a league average defensive center fielder he will be a very valuable player.
Rebecca,
In Yankees history, players rarely are the initiators of changing positions.
Yogi Berra didn’t like having to move to LF to accomodate Elston Howard.
Joe DiMaggio retired rather than relinquish CF to Mickey Mantle.
Bobby Murcer’s first reaction on moving from SS to CF was one of unhappiness. He then realized CF was the best spot for him and things worked out.
I have a feeling that when the time comes for Jeter to move, it will be a mutually agreed upon thing and that’s how it will be presented publicly.
“personally i think the best thing for the environment would be to blow up fenway park and put in a beautiful urban open space in it’s place.
the red sox? contract them.”
I think what will be most painful about Jeter going to another position is watching it happen from an emotional perspective.
GreenBeret7,
Yep! Now that dates us, doesn’t it!
Ham,
Actually, the truly scientific data proves that global warming and cooling is caused by solar activity that operates in a cyclical pattern. The pollution you talk about and the acid rain, now that is a completely different story. My point in all this is that I don’t believe, with the environmental laws already in place, that plans would have ben approved if the stadium didn’t meet certain “green” standards. Going beyond that would most likely have lead to more cost to the Yankees which would, in turn, have made tickets even higher!
paying for a greener environment is investing money in improved human heath.
Interesting thought on Jeter’s future after SS, SJ. I’d always thought he’d end up anywhere in the OF in his late 30’s, rather than DH or anywhere else in the infield. Even w/o A-Rod or Teixiera in the picture I couldn’t really imagine him moving to either of their corners unless he got bigger. I’d had no specific OF position in mind … I thought RF would be the least likely OF position for him but I’m sure he could do it. Never really thought much of it though. LF? Yeah I could definitely see it happening after a good SS comes along. After being a SS for so long, staying on the left side of the diamond could be more natural than moving to the right side.
First, I’m a Jeter fan and always have been. I agree that he’ll be our SS through 2010.
After that, I’d be very opposed to moving him to LF. He’d have been a below average left fielder offensively in 2008, let alone the defensive adjustment for learning a new position at age 35.
IMO he’d be a real liability in LF if they try to move him at age 37. That just isn’t going to happen.
In 2011, Jeter will either sign a new contract with the Yanks to play SS, if he still can, agree to a reduced role on the Yanks, or go somewhere else. He won’t be out left fielder.
ham fighters
January 12th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
paying for a greener environment is investing money in improved human heath.
————————————————————
I’ll have a coke and a smoke on that.
“Actually, the truly scientific data proves that global warming and cooling is caused by solar activity that operates in a cyclical pattern.”
And I would be very interested in reading that truly scientific data since the scientific data I read says the opposite. This was published in National Geographic: *The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming.*
He will not play anywhere else. He also won’t be a benchwarmer. He’s Derek Jeter and he can still hit.
The Yankees have dealt with icon players having to change positions throughout their history. They aren’t going to lose Derek Jeter because of a position change.
Prior to signing Tex, I would have guessed he would end up at first base. Now, especially with the changes taking place (Damon and Matsui gone after this season), I could see LF as the likely landing area for him. Perhaps as early as 2011.
Then again, if he plays SS for the next two years like he played this past season, he can stay at SS. He was more than adequate at SS last year, regardless of his critics.
The question will be, can he continue to play SS at his 2008 levels? That’s the big unknown right now.
“Actually, the truly scientific data proves that global warming and cooling is caused by solar activity that operates in a cyclical pattern.”
No it doesn’t. This is patently untrue. It’s a complete fabrication and not what the science says at all.
Wave – The only place I could see Jeter going after he’s done being a Yankee player is retirement, coaching (which he could do anywhere) or the Yanks front office.
Jeter playing for another team? I don’t think so. My guess is (and of course its only a guess … I’ve never met him) that he’d rather switch positions instead of that.
Jeter will be going nowhere, especially until he gets that 3,000th hit as a Yankee and as a shortstop, unless he agrees with it. Jeter will be the next Yankee owner when he, Rivera, Rodriguez and Teixeira pool their last paychecks and buy out the Steinbrenners.
“In 2011, Jeter will either sign a new contract with the Yanks to play SS, if he still can, agree to a reduced role on the Yanks, or go somewhere else. He won’t be out left fielder.”
I think the yankees have made it clear that they are going to take defense more seriously moving into the future.
There is a real limit to how good the overall team defense can be with even a league average SS in place. At 37 Jeter would be well below average at SS and likely a real rate limiting step to the teams defensive efficiency.
He’s going to be closing in on 3000 hits – he’ll likely pass that mark and in doing so would be the first yankee to do it.
There’s no way they are going to let him get his 3000th hit in another uniform.
If Jeter had played LF his whole career he would have been below average at that position twice – his rookie season and last season.
If his offense was down due to his hand injury then he could rebound and could project to be league average in LF at the plate.
I do think that’s where he winds up.
I think in 2010 they will make a major push to sign JJ Hardy and play him at SS if Hardy doesn’t sign an extension (which I don’t think he will, at least on the brewers).
The Pirates and Cubs will each win back to back World Series before Jeter ever plays for another team. He’s definitely a Yankee for life.
If Jeter is the Yankee LF in 2011 the Yanks will have made an enormous mistake, IMO. He won’t be close to giving us the offense (or the defense) we will need from that position at age 37.
This is a huge issue for the off-season after 2010.
G.R.
This is a quote from HOK Sport about the Nationals ballpark and the increased costs of “green elements”
“”We’d heard it would be $10 million or $20 million more than normal to build a LEED-certified park,” says architect Joe Spear of HOK Sport, which designed the stadium with Devrouax + Purnell. “In the end, it was pretty affordable — somewhere around $2 million more.” Some upfront costs will be recouped; the state-of-the-art high-efficiency field lighting uses 21% less energy than conventional lighting.”
Yes it would have cost more, but not that much more. Here is the link to the article:
http://www.fastcompany.com/mag.....lpark.html
It’s an interesting subject.
Why waste time debating Golbal Warming. After watching the History Channel’s Armageddon Week, the world is going to end in 2012 anyway (sorry C.C., your not going to get to use that opt out clause).
Ham Fighter:
Please take 5 minutes and google “global warming consensus” before making any further pronouncements on the subject.
Also, if “paying for a greener environment is investing money in improved human heath,” how do you explain the miraculous advancements in human health and longevity that have taken place since the start of the 20th century? I would suggest that economic growth, which supplies people with more food, better housing, better medicine, lower crime, and more leisure time, is a much bigger factor in improving human health than any “green” innovation you would like to see implemented.
I actually prefer this version, thank you Will.
http://showbizandstyle.inquire.....2012-means
I remember some people freaking out about Y2K also. I didn’t buy into that one either!
“Also, if “paying for a greener environment is investing money in improved human heath,” how do you explain the miraculous advancements in human health and longevity that have taken place since the start of the 20th century? I would suggest that economic growth, which supplies people with more food, better housing, better medicine, lower crime, and more leisure time, is a much bigger factor in improving human health than any “green” innovation you would like to see implemented.”
this argument does not address whether investing in a greener environment improves human health in any way.
CB
January 12th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“Actually, the truly scientific data proves that global warming and cooling is caused by solar activity that operates in a cyclical pattern.”
“No it doesn’t. This is patently untrue. It’s a complete fabrication and not what the science says at all.”
Actually, you’re dead wrong on this one, but I guess further debate should be taken up on a Science blog and not the Yankees blog. My intention in posting my take is that I don’t really think the Yankees need to do more than what I’m sure they’ve already done to obey environmental laws in building the new stadium.
I don’t doubt that some “green” policies hold the potential for improving human health. Smoking bans, for example, would likely improve human health. The point I was addressing was your implication that any investment in a “greener environment” can be justified by a resulting improvement human health. I don’t agree. CAFE standards, for example, are a “green” policy that is helping to wreck the U.S. auto industry and, in turn, the entire U.S. and world economies. The overall effect of the economic damage will be to set back human health, not improve it.
More simply put, I believe the best way to improve human health is through economic development and growth. To the extent that “green” policies often serve as a drag on the economy, they are actually bad for human health.
I have to say i enjoy this alot. Well written.
Tree Hugger!!!
Let’s play ball in our Awesome new Stadium. Global warming will be as debatable when its time for this one to be replaced.
Play Ball!
“Actually, you’re dead wrong on this one, but I guess further debate should be taken up on a Science blog and not the Yankees blog. My intention in posting my take is that I don’t really think the Yankees need to do more than what I’m sure they’ve already done to obey environmental laws in building the new stadium.”
Amen G.R.. And you know they did.
Hey Trisha, check this out:
http://www.iceagenow.com/
Now, play ball! play ball!
I for one, am glad that the Yankees didn’t give into to this “junk science” known as “global warming.”
Instead of listening to what Al Gore says (the guy who likes to buy carbon credits from HIMSELF) there needs to be an honest and open debate about this.
We need to listen to the hundreds of respected scientists who don’t buy into all the hype. We should look at things such as how the earth’s temperature has actually decreased in the last 10 years (if anything we’re in another “cooling” period now).
Anyone else find it surprising that these global warming and cooling trends have directly corresponded to the activity of the sun and not CO2 emissions?
People need to look at all the facts before allowing politicians to legislate ridiculous bills that will have minimal impact on the environment and lead to crippling the economy even more!
see what my capt told girardi re changing in order tues sure sounds fine to me that is my capt as always a team guy ask yuk and dustan and wright thaT IS MY jeter