Pinch hitting: Pinstripe Alley
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- January
- 16
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January is traditionally a slow month for baseball news. So for the second year in a row, we will showcase other blogs with a series of pinch hitters.
Next up is Travis from Pinstripe Alley.
A Yankee fan living in Philly, Travis been writing for Pinstripe Alley since August. The World Series victory for the Phillies only made him want another title for the Yanks even more. The unabridged version of this article can be found on his blog.
Here is his post:
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Can the Yankees win with Alex Rodriguez? He’s been criticized as a “me-first” player who destroys team chemistry since he left Seattle for Texas in the 2000-01 offseason. The evidence often used is threefold: the Mariners won 25 more games the year after A-Rod left (2001); the Rangers won 18 more games the year after Arod left (2004); and after Arod joined the Yankees, they’ve ended each year progressively worse. In 2003 (one year before A-Rod), the Yankees won the pennant and lost the World Series in six games. The downward spiral began when he joined, starting with a seven-game loss to Boston in the League Championship Series, followed by a Division Series loss to Anaheim in five games, an LDS loss to Detroit in four games, an LDS loss to Cleveland in four games and then 2008, when the Yankees missed the playoffs entirely.
I went into this study not sure what to find. First, I looked at the lineups of each teams, to see who replaced A-Rod after he departed. The 2000 Mariners (A-Rod’s last year with Seattle) had a team OPS+ of 107.
The 2001 team had a considerably better 118 OPS+. What was the difference? The largest improvement was at second-base, where Bret Boone posted a 153 OPS+, replacing Mark McLemore’s 76. Not to be overlooked is the addition of Ichiro Suzuki, who won the Rookie of the Year and MVP awards. These differences improved Seattle from fourth in runs scored to first, despite moving to pitcher-friendly Safeco Field. The pitching also improved (negligibly) from second to first (in the AL).
A-Rod bolted from Seattle to Texas, and after his time there, he departed to the Yankees and the Rangers won 18 more games. How? Pitching. Texas’ ERA ranked dead last in 2003, but through signings, trades and the maturation of young players, posted the fifth-best ERA in 2004. In fact, they allowed 180 fewer runs. So while the offense was nearly identical after A-Rod departed (96 vs. 97 OPS+), the difference was drastically improved pitching.
The current Yankee ERA has resulted in a worse result each year. The 2003 Yankees were a very good all-around team, ranking third in runs scored and third in ERA. The ’04 Yanks took a step back in terms of pitching, dropping to sixth in ERA (and not one starter went over 200 innings while four topped it in ’03). The pitching declined even further in 2005, dropping to ninth. Including last year, the Yankees haven’t finished in the top five in ERA since 2003 (sixth, ninth, sixth, eighth and eighth respectively since then).
As for A-Rod being a ‘bad seed’, we know he doesn’t have sleepovers with Derek Jeter any more, but does that make him a bad teammate? Teams have won with far worse “seeds”, namely Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson, just to name a few.
Final verdict: Alex Rodriguez is not at fault for the relative lack of success of his teams. Despite his prodigious offense, pitching is still crucial, and teams seem to forget that after acquiring A-Rod.
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Good post, Travis. But as Elaine once said of George, “Trust me. He’s a bad seed. He’s a horrible seed. He’s one of the worst seeds I’ve ever seen.”
Just kidding. Well, not so much.
Coming tomorrow: Drew from My Pinstripes.
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on Friday, January 16th, 2009 at 12:15 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
The ERA numbers do tell a story…..Good info, well structured…..
Here’s an idea. A-Rod has an ego similar to Reggie, so why not treat them the same way? Bench A-Rod when he acts out and treats the rest of the team like crap. Make him Earn his stripes, just like Billy did with Reggie. It’s worked in the past and it can work again.
When has Alex Rodriguez ever “acted out”? What, you are going to bench him for getting a divorce from his wife?
I think the phrase is “opted out”.
Nick in SF….UCLA ia hammering Arizona by 20….You going to Palo Alto for the Bears game ???
Perfect post. Thanks, Travis for being the rare poster to teach us something new (there HAVE been a few others, but this one has interested me particularly).
Joe A, when did he act out for the Yanks?? Got some examples about on the field acting out?? Or him talking about team mates? Nope? nice try
PAT M: I wish I could, but I’m going to be working up in Napa most of the day, can’t make it down there by 5:00. But I’m hoping to make it back to the city in time to watch. I wonder what the line is going to be…
Are those rankings AL rankings or MLB rankings for pitching an hitting?
Cal by 2 …..My ex lives in lovely Napa….
Well we’re not sure if Arod has ever “acted out” and we know he’s definitely “opted out” but is it possible that he just may be “coming out”?
http://tinyurl.com/85faq8
this hemingway compared to yesterday
Great post. I’ve been telling everybody for the last few years that the Yankee pitching has been the downfall of the team since 2003, not ARod. They lost Clemens, Pettitte, and Wells after the 2003 season. Their innings in the rotation for 2004 were taken by Brown, Vazquez, Contreras, and Weaver. Mussina also had a terrible year. The yankee pitching hasn’t been very good since that time. 2008 was the first year where the offense also wasn’t up to snuff, thanks to too many at-bats by Molina and Melky, as well as Cano’s bad year.
Anyway, ARod is part of the solution, not the problem. This should be obvious to anybody who can think about this objectively.
I apologize for an error above: Lieber was in the 2004 rotation, not Weaver.
Travis
Good read. Enjoyed the unabridged version on your site as well. Thanks.
There are reasons why a passionate life-long Yankee fan would never list A-Rod as their favorite player.
Very nice post Travis. well done…
It leaves me feeling optimistic since the Yankees have addressed their pitching this offseason and have built a formidable farm system, specifically with regard to pitching.
The old baseball adage is that pitching and defense win pennants. And from 2004, we had glaring weaknesses in both areas. AROD is a great player. I’m confident and I hope that he will help get us into the playoffs again and help us get to a title. Alex is too good to keep playing as poorly in the playoffs as he has since the 2004 ALCS.
Yup, the trouble started when all the pitchers but Moose left after 2003. Kevin Brown and Javy Vazquez bombed and things went downhill from there. It’s finally been addressed.
A-Rod=George Costanza?
What don’t we know about you and A-Rod, Pete?
Awesome post, Travis! Well researched, etc. My favorite guest post so far.
interesting post but a few things:
you didnt consider what they would spend his $30M on if they werent paying arod
also as for this:
“Teams have won with far worse “seeds”, namely Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson, just to name a few.
good or bad ’seeds’ these guys all performed well to great in the clutch on the PS stage. one could argue that jackson’s or clemmen’s postseason performance contributed greatly to each of thier team’s winning the WS. while arod has not performed at that level in the PS.
im not hating on arod, i just dont think your post while well researched, answers the question you began with.
i agree about the pitching but the jury’s still out on arod and the PS.
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 4:59 am
interesting post but a few things:
you didnt consider what they would spend his $30M on if they werent paying arod
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For starters, NYY was only paying 16 mil for Rodriguez. NYY also had their pitching already bought in 2004 long before Rodriguez joined the team. Try anothr theory…this one’s full of…..holes.
he makes good points about how improving the mariner’s and rangers rotations helped the teams win, which suggests that had they spent the money they had spent on arod on pitching instead, they would have been better off.
as for the $16M are you saying that $16M couldnt have improved the yankees rotation?
once again, im not hating on arod, but pointing out that teams improved thier rotation and thus won more after arod left proves nothin about arod (except that in texas’s case they had no money left for pitching after they paid arod).
and referring to ‘bad seeds’ who were great PS performers winning the WS also says nothing about arod.
i make no conclusion as to his question ‘can the yankees win with arod’ but these statistics do not answer the question.
This question will go on until they win it all with him.
I am hoping that it is this year.
Say what you will about Clemens’ use of substances, but no one EVER accused Roger of being a distraction, acting up or being a bad teammate. Just the opposite, in fact.
as for the $16M are you saying that $16M couldnt have improved the yankees rotation?
once again, im not hating on arod, but pointing out that teams improved thier rotation and thus won more after arod left proves nothin about arod (except that in texas’s case they had no money left for pitching after they paid arod).
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Well couldn’t they say that about any highly paid player? And teams have shown that you can win with low cost/high talent pitching which the Yankees didn’t persue. They are in a better position now with a mix of established star pitching and up and coming talent.
As for winning when Arod leaves, even though each team improved neither came anywhere close to the real goal of a WS. Would you really be okay with the Yankees if they let Arod go and won a 100 games this year but get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs? After all that would be an improvement over the last season Arod played with them.
To blame the failures of a TEAM on one person is crazy no matter how much he makes it will still be a team sport and when someone on the team struggles the teammates need to step up their game…Posada and Arod did it in 07, Damon did it in 08 but more need to step and help if they are to win it all. Boston did it when Ortiz went down, Tampa did it when Longoria went down.
im not blaming anything on arod and neither is the guest blogger. personally i believe that the yankees will win multiple titles with arod.
but do these pitching statistics, while interesting, address the question posed? i say no.
Excellent post.
Actually, the Yankees are probably the one team where adding ARod and his salary doesn’t impair the ability of he team to make other moves. And, since the end of 2003, when there was a mass exodus of starting pitching, the Yankees HAVE tried to add pitching – tried and failed, but tried nonetheless. The failure was not due to an inability or lack of desire to spend the money. It was a combination of faulty choices and bad luck.
This season they are paying ARod more (since the opt-out) and have added two very high quality (though one is a little risky) starting pitchers. We all hope they have the make-up to succeed in New York. No one questions their talent.
The failure of the Yankees to get to the World Series since 2003 has been a team-wide failure; it wasn’t only ARod who stopped coming through in clutch situations in the playoffs. And it can’t be overstated that the pitching just hasn’t really been there, not the way it was pre-2004.
And with the contract ARod signed, it’s going to be quite awhile until we see how the Yankees fare without him.
the research he did on this piece was great and i liked the piece alot. the version posted on pinstripe alley is more complete and addresses more of the offensive changes surrounding arods movements. still, he starts with this question:
“Can the Yankees win with Arod?”
and ends with this conclusion:
“Final verdict: Alex Rodriguez is not at fault for the relative lack of success of his teams.
now i ask, does that conclusion answer that question?
Since last making it to the WS in 2003, the Yanks have not skimped on pithcing. They’ve thrown money at Kevin Brown, Javy Vazquez, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Jarrett Wright, Andy Pettitte II, Roger Clemens II, etc. What they haven’t been able to do for all tha money is produce much health or a staff era that was 3rd or better in the AL. And since 1997, they haven’t been to the WS with a staff era that was any worse than 3rd, whether ARod was present or not.
I agree with Ham that the post’s conclusion is either kinda weak or just doesn’t answer anything much.
That teams forget about pitching? Seriously? I don’t think any major league (or college or high school) team is clueless enough to “forget about pitching.” Maybe the Rangers and mariners at the time didn’t have the $ to acquire more pitching after taking on a contract like ARod’s, but I am sure they didn’t forget about it. The Yankees didn’t forget about it either, they made many attempts to fill pitching spots with proven veteran pitchers that just didn’t work out for one reason or another. To say they didn’t care about pitching or forgot about it doesn’t mesh.
ARod as George Costanza?
If I were Cynthia, I wouldn’t be licking any envelopes any time soon.
Almost as well researched and thoughtout as SAMIAM. Almost.
I love this arod myth: Arod cant perform in the playoffs. If you look at his career numbers and his playoff numbers they are pretty similiar, the career being a tad better because he has played more games in the regular season. Its a myth created by mike lupica and company and then some fans believe it to be true.
306/389/578 in 7860 regular season AB
279/361/483 in 147 post season AB
147 AB is like a month worth in a regular season.
If you dont believe in the laws of averages check out Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams regular season versus post season numbers
bernie
297/381/477-regular
275/371/480-post season
jeter
316/387/458-regular season
309/377/469- post season
Both Bernie and Jeter have played in over 115 games in the post season, almost 3/4 of the regular season…
I’ve never understood this irrational disdain for ARod. Is it the money? Is it all just based in a yearning to BE ARod?
The claims of him being “unclutch” have already been disproven.
The guy puts up numbers that are other-worldly.
So now he’s a bad seed. What exactly has he done to warrant this? Or like the claims of him being “unclutch”, is this just wild speculation and not based on anything even remotely resembling fact?
Seriously. Can anyone who claims ARod is a bad seed actually make a substantial claim and back it up with examples and proof? I won’t hold my breath.
One other thing is that maybe the team’s offensive stats are as the poster says; ie. they stayed about the same after ARod left. That just goes to show that no one is indispensible, especially a position player. Players are traded or retire or whatever, but the world keeps on spinning. The Yankees kept on winning even after the losses of Ruth, then Gehrig, then Dimag. All-time greats.
The only conclusion from this, if that’s the word to use here, is that it takes more than one superstar to win pennants. It takes a team. Is there anyone here who didn’t already know that? Oh yeah, and that pitching is important.
BTW, I have no beef with this or any of the guest bloggers. They have been asked to contribute and they have. Just that this one started out with a good premise but then kind of went out with a whimper. But the purpose is to generate conversation I guess and it did.
this is interesting, i had been hearing that citi field was supposed to be a pitchers park like shea was but then i heard verducci say a while back that the enclose end will create a current to carry balls out to left center, now i read this:
” Mets players who have tried out the stadium say (citi field) is a “launching pad.” (Perhaps the most underreported story of the Mets off-season: That Citi is expected to be a homer-happy park.)”
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2....._funk.html
Much better than that crap yesterday. Gawd!
That’s for sure, Fraud.
You guys dive into politics way way way too much for a baseball blog and it just isn’t funny.
Great post. Unfortunately, no rational argument will persuade fans who think ARod is a destructive influence and that Scott Brosius was a better third baseman.
Pete’s utter dislike for A-Rod doesn’t have an off-season, apparently.
The below is apparently from Ken Rosenthal. The person who quoted this originally did not provide a link and I couldn’t find the article on the Fox Sports website:
***Martinez also remains on the Mets’ radar, as does free-agent righty Ben Sheets, pending a review of his medical records. The Yankees, who continue to consider a number of free-agent starters, have little interest in Sheets and also don’t appear very serious about Freddy Garcia, another free agent. Garcia’s clearest opportunity to start probably is with the Rangers, but the Mets also could give him a chance, and the White Sox remain interested even after signing righty Bartolo Colon … ***
For a relatively cheap contract, I don’t see how the Yankees aren’t in on Sheets..and I don’t know why they have little interest in Garcia. I haev no clue as to what they are thinking with the 5th startere, but they are shutting themselves out of several options at this point.
Nothing will ever be worse than yesterdays post. That takes the cake for the low point if this.
I know that a lot of Yankee fans don’t like to hear bad things about A-Rod and it gets them all riled up but I personally think A-Rod is a bum. He does disappear in the playoffs. Look at his career batting average in the playoffs for the Yankees…
.258
.133
.071 < — Total disgrace
.261
Who could also forget that embarrassing, I mean, embarrassing girly slap he gave in the 04 Red Sox playoffs?
People don’t like him because of things like this…
“”Run him over! Run him over!” Rodriguez yells at Sheffield, imploring him to barrel through Red Sox catcher Jason Varitek.
Sheffield scores, and Varitek turns to Rodriguez. “You would never do it,” Varitek replies sneeringly.
The incident reveals two Rodriguez traits that infuriate opponents–his irritating rah-rah act and his perceived pretty-boy approach. Then there’s the biggest reason Rodriguez is openly disparaged by his peers: Many view him as a phony whose polished media act is anything but sincere.”
I’ll never like A-Rod so you can save your time and energy trying to convince me otherwise.
I forgot to post the link to that article about A-Rod..
http://findarticles.com/p/arti....._n13651324
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 6:04 am
he makes good points about how improving the mariner’s and rangers rotations helped the teams win, which suggests that had they spent the money they had spent on arod on pitching instead, they would have been better off.
as for the $16M are you saying that $16M couldnt have improved the yankees rotation?
once again, im not hating on arod, but pointing out that teams improved thier rotation and thus won more after arod left proves nothin about arod (except that in texas’s case they had no money left for pitching after they paid arod).
and referring to ‘bad seeds’ who were great PS performers winning the WS also says nothing about arod.
i make no conclusion as to his question ‘can the yankees win with arod’ but these statistics do not answer the question.
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Exactly what pitchers did Rodriguez’ 16 mil salary cost the Yankees? They signed the two top (in the team’s consideration) FA pitches for 2005 along with getting George Steinbrenner’s choice in Johson. In 2004, they had traded Weaver for Brown, who was a considerable upgrade, until he screwed up. In 2007, they brought in Pettitte. Again, what pitcher was available that they didn’t get, because of Rodriguez?
“Who could also forget that embarrassing, I mean, embarrassing girly slap he gave in the 04 Red Sox playoffs?”
Troll.
Great post. You brought up a lot of interesting points on an issue that nobody has really discussed in detail.
The only thing I have an issue with is calling Roger Clemens a “bad seed”. All the bad stuff has come after his last season. By all accounts he was a great teammate who helped the young pitchers, had a great determination to win and a great workout regimen that rubbed off on others. I never thought Clemens was a distraction.
*For a relatively cheap contract, I don’t see how the Yankees aren’t in on Sheets..and I don’t know why they have little interest in Garcia. I haev no clue as to what they are thinking with the 5th startere, but they are shutting themselves out of several options at this point.*
while fans have seemingly speculated all kinds of options and prices and contracts and whatever, when you go back to the hand Cashman has played basically all offseason, its either Pettitte at the price they want to bring him back at, or the kids who will battle in spring training.
gb you’ve gone off on a huge tangent about the yankees pitching, which i agree has gotten worse. this does not in any way answer the question of whether the yankees can with with arod. it explain why they didnt win with him in the past. do u not understand the difference?
Unless the economy perks up or shows some good signs of doing so, a lot of teams will be shedding payroll by June to compensate for dwindling attendance figures.
It depends on what teams can afford to take on to ensure a playoff run.
sean, funny how you leave out his .421 average
here is derek jeter in the last 5 series:
316
200
333
500
176
posada:
222
259
231
500
133
They all sucked in the last 5 post season series, each one have an awesome series .421 for Arod/ jeter with his .500 and Posada with his .500
But it seems that you are so narrow that you will never understand this
” Mets players who have tried out the stadium say (citi field) is a “launching pad.” (Perhaps the most underreported story of the Mets off-season: That Citi is expected to be a homer-happy park.)”
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Bad bad news for homer happy Johan.
GG January 16th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Nothing will ever be worse than yesterdays post. That takes the cake for the low point if this.
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Apparently you missed Sam I am’s post.
Sean Serritella
January 16th, 2009 at 8:49 am
I forgot to post the link to that article about A-Rod..
http://findarticles.com/p/arti....._n13651324
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You’re using a 4 year old article by an idiot like Rosenthal, who hates the Yankees and uses quotes from the Red Sox? The idiot calls Rodriguez “disingenuous” because “he bolted the Mariners”. Does that make all free agents disingenuous? You need to grow up and get over your junior high school girl jealousies. He’s not trying to “steal Jeter’s lightning”.
Jennifer, it seems there are dueling trains of thought on whether or Citi field will be a hitters park or a pitchers park:
“Citi Field, the new ballpark for the New York Mets, is poised to become MLB’s new Grand Canyon. City Field is a vast, cool weather, sea-level stadium, and those factors will have a hugely negative impact on home runs.
*snip*
Johan Santana and the rest of the Mets pitching staff will like the new park, but the Mets’ front office should sign their power hitters now, before the word gets out. In spring 2009, baseball fans are going to get a live demonstration of what happens when a team sets out to design a pitcher’s park, and overdoes it.”
I guess thats why they play the games.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/20.....e-homeruns
actually, johan gave up more homers at home (12 in 17 starts), which was supposed to be a pitcher’s park, than he did on the road (11 in 17 starts) where the average park is much more hitter friendly than shea.
either way you look at the non trade, santana is a great pitcher and that gives him the advantage in any park. plus for all the mets problems, they did nab two of the best RP’s out there. santana got ND’d something like 7 times after leaving with the lead last season.
im glad we didnt make the trade, but watch johan win 22 games this season. ill be drafting him in the 2nd round in my fantasy league, just like last season.
Tom- So funny two totally different schools of thought. I guess we’ll see what happens in August.
Arod’s 16M salary didn’t keep them from tossing Clemens 19M for little more than half a season of mediocre starts. While we are at it, how many pitchers have the Yankees passed on because of Jeter’s 18M salary? How about Giambi’s 22M? or Mussina’s 19M ‘06 salary? How many players will we pass up in the future because of Tex’s and CC’s salaries?
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 8:56 am
gb you’ve gone off on a huge tangent about the yankees pitching, which i agree has gotten worse. this does not in any way answer the question of whether the yankees can with with arod. it explain why they didnt win with him in the past. do u not understand the difference?
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Apparently more than you do. You’re the one that brought up everything NYY could have done with the “30 mil they paid Rodriguez”, which was BS to begin with. What else did NYY need on those teams besides pitching? Four 4 years, Rodriguez cost 6 mil more than Soriano and in 2007, he cost less than Soriano. Sorry, but, Rodriguez isn’t the reason for NYY losing….only part of it. The vast majority is because of pitching….the rest is because nobody else has hit.
Rodriguez isn’t the only reason NYY hasn’t won since 2001. Why didn’t they win from 2001-2003, before he joined the team? If not for Rodriguez, NYY would never have gotten past the Twins in 2004, and look at his first four games against Boston.
gb did i ever say arod was the reason the yankees didnt win? in fact i said the opposite.
***For*** 4 years
“this does not in any way answer the question of whether the yankees can with with arod.”
All other players being equal, they have a better chance to win with him than win without him.
If Citi Field becomes the new Grand Canyon and Wilpon wants to change that – it’s an easy fix….
Move the fences in.
I would imagine they aren’t going to do anything about it right now and they’ll analyze all the stats and offensive production next offseason compared to Shea Stadium.
Lots of teams have moved in the fences to boost offensive production.
This is completely ridiculous debate. Can we win with one of the most consistent offensive players in the game? YES
All it’s gonna take are a few timely hits in the postseason, and we will never have the A-Rod debate again.
Not to mention, we wouldn’t have even made the playoffs two years ago without the guy.
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 9:21 am
gb did i ever say arod was the reason the yankees didnt win? in fact i said the opposite
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Then explain what this line refers to? Were you misquoted?
“you didnt consider what they would spend his $30M on if they werent paying arod”
tom i had read that exactly plus all the statements about how it was going to be a pitcher’s park from the mets brass. thats why i was so suprised when i read that in new york magazine.
the read you linked there points to a pitcher’s park, but he doesnt address the wind at all.
im looking forward to seeing what citi field does.
Interesting in that Citifield article about the fence being mis-marked. I have always believed that fenway is grossly lying about their dimensions. There is no way that the green monster is 310′. That is almost the same as left at YS, but pop-flies go out of fenway. They say 420 to center, but balls go out to center there easier than most parks with supposedly shorter dimensions(and a 17′ wall to boot). And, no way the pesky pole is 302′. Try about 275′. If that.
I personally believe that the postseason is all about pitching. One position player can not be responsible for an entire team’s successes or disgraces.
ARod’s girl slap did not lose us that series (it was just a pathetic attempt to win get on base)…. how about Tom Gordon’s morph into the BP pitcher for the BoSux? If Tom Gordon didn’t give up two bombs to Big Slappi, that series would have been over in 4 or 5. Or Javy Vazquez’s meatball parade in game 7? Or making Curt Smelling look like a hero while he served up mediocre pitch after pitch? They were all to blame, not just ARod.
ARod is still one of the top five most gifted players to put on a uniform (unless someone can prove that he is or was on ‘roids).
Now the Yankees have 2 of the nastiest pitchers in the game, allowing Wang to quietly dominate other teams’ #3 pitchers and Joba to make the #4 starters look like they belong in AAA. Let’s hope that pitching will return the Yankees to glory, and get people off Arod’s back.
Mark, I agree about Fenway. Dent’s home run was a pop up antywhere else.
Mark in Tampa
January 16th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Interesting in that Citifield article about the fence being mis-marked. I have always believed that fenway is grossly lying about their dimensions. There is no way that the green monster is 310’. That is almost the same as left at YS, but pop-flies go out of fenway. They say 420 to center, but balls go out to center there easier than most parks with supposedly shorter dimensions(and a 17’ wall to boot). And, no way the pesky pole is 302’. Try about 275’. If that.
_________________________________________________________
You can actually go on Google Earth and measure it yourself. you can even measure it to the inch
Fantastic guest post! It’s always good to see people actually dig through the facts rather than vague assumptions and pronounce them as truths. A-Rod is a great player, this team would have a very average offense without him.
Speaking of the pitching, given all of the pitching depth that the Sawx have accumulated, we might need Andy to solidify the rotation more than I had thought before. All it takes is one fluke injury to Joba or Wang or AJ (CC just doesn’t get hurt), for the rotation to go from dominant to average.
Game 6 coaching was what cost us that series in 04′. How do you have a pitcher that can barely walk, and not bunt all day on him. Bad call!!!!
ARod will never satisfy everyone no matter what he does. However while I have been a big supporter of him, he also has to produce in the post-season to cement any kind of Yankees legacy. Oterhwise he’ll just be a great player with great stats without a ring. No crime in that, but that’s where he is and that’s where he stays until he leads the NYY to # 27.
Fenway’s wall is 310. 310 in left center that is.
I remember seeing Manny playing the infield and still getting to balls near the wall.
i got 300.29 feet to the pesky pole on google earth.
306.34 ft. down the LF line
what do you guys think about trading for felix pie, whome i just read is on his way out in chicago and letting him develop in aaa? and whoever loses the current battle for cf be traded in a package deal for a utility guy who can backup ss? he is supposed to be a five tool guy in the making! i cant see us having to give up much for him right now either
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am
i got 300.29 feet to the pesky pole on google earth.
______________________________________
You remember the homerun arod hit to the ambulence at yankee stadium. You should measure that distance on google earth, i did it once, its was a BOMB he hit that day. i think it was close to 500feet
It has been said countless times, but:
ARod has had great playoff series. He has had terrible playoff series. He has had ok playoff series.
In that respect he is like almost every other great player throughout baseball history.
People who don’t like ARod probably never will like him, no matter what happens in the playoffs. You can always see how he does in a particular series and then set the bar a little higher. This is apparently why ARod is still a playoff choker even though he was absolutely on fire in the 2004 ALDS and much of the ALCS.
“i got 300.29 feet to the pesky pole on google earth”
Wow, the redsox figured out how to rig google earth? That theo sure is a genius!
This would be fun to watch.
Beginning next week, this group is expected to start working out together in the Dominican Republic. For some it will be prep for the WBC and for others prep for the regular season:
Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, David Ortiz, Alfonso Soriano, Vladimir Guerrero, Adrian Beltré, José Guillén, Hanley Ramírez, Pedro Martínez, Ervin Santana, Plácido Polanco, Robinson Canó, Ubaldo Jiménez, Francisco Liriano, José Valverde, Carlos Mármol, Francisco Cordero, Carlos Peña, Miguel Tejada, José Reyes, Aramis Ramírez, Daniel Cabrera, Fausto Carmona, Edinson Vólquez, Johnny Cueto, Odalis Pérez, Wandy Rodríguez, Octavio Dotel, Santiago Casillas, Juan Carlos Cruz, Jesús Colomé, Dennis Bautista, José Arredondo, Dámaso Marte, Edward Ramírez, José Veras, Rafael Pérez, Ramón Troncoso, Julio Mañón, Carlos Villanueva, Leo Núñez, Pedro Viola, Melky Cabrera, Alexi Casilla, Ronnie Belliard, Emilio Bonifacio, Erick Aybar, Christian Guzmán, Pedro Feliz, Willy Aybar and Edwin Encarnación.
the picture of (old) YS is very blurry so its hard to estimate. i got 492ft just in front of the escalator walkway, which is approximatly where the ambulance was.
the new YS isnt even there.
wish i had google earth to measure that mamnoth shot mickey hit off the light tower on the roof.
i remember staring up there at that tower and imagining how it could have been possible for a human being to hit a baseball that far.
rifalcon42
January 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
what do you guys think about trading for felix pie, whome i just read is on his way out in chicago and letting him develop in aaa? and whoever loses the current battle for cf be traded in a package deal for a utility guy who can backup ss? he is supposed to be a five tool guy in the making! i cant see us having to give up much for him right now either
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Why would you trade for a player that you would have to request waivers on to send him to the minors? That’s the reason Chicago would trade him…he’s not ready for the majors and he’s out of options.
Maybe the Mets SP sucks because of the new pitchers park.
Ham Fighters
January 16th, 2009 at 10:02 am
wish i had google earth to measure that mamnoth shot mickey hit off the light tower on the roof.
i remember staring up there at that tower and imagining how it could have been possible for a human being to hit a baseball that far.
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If you’re referring to Yankee stadium, Mantle never hit the light tower, there. He did hit at least three off of the facade, just below the roof (12-18 inches), however.
“Why would you trade for a player that you would have to request waivers on to send him to the minors? That’s the reason Chicago would trade him…he’s not ready for the majors and he’s out of options.”
they are actually trading him because they signed bradley and some other ofs and there is no room for him in either ml or aaa for the cubs
From Rosenthal:
“A trade remains a possibility, but the Braves are unwilling to meet the Yankees’ price for outfielder Xavier Nady, knowing they might get better deals in July.”
What price is that?
rifalcon42
January 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
“Why would you trade for a player that you would have to request waivers on to send him to the minors? That’s the reason Chicago would trade him…he’s not ready for the majors and he’s out of options.”
they are actually trading him because they signed bradley and some other ofs and there is no room for him in either ml or aaa for the cubs
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Once again…slowly. Pie is out of options and Chicago would need waivers on him to send him to the minors or trade him. The team that gets him has to keep him in the majors or request waivers to send him to the minors. That means that they wil lose him and have nothing to show for it, because he won’t pass through waivers. He is not major league ready for a team like the Yankees.
“He’s been criticized as a “me-first” player who destroys team chemistry since he left Seattle … ”
Nice post, Travis. Glad to see someone grasps that being CHARACTERIZED as something often has little to do with actually BEING that something.
It always seems nobody stops to think (realize) that if Seattle had kept A-Rod when they added Ichiro, Boone had such a great year and they got good solid pitching (as you point out, Travis) they might have won 120-something games not a mere 116. Instead, its easy to characterize A-Rod.
It also seems nobody stops to think that since A-Rod’s been here there have been so many wastes of players (or injured players) on the team with him who have a very significant amount to do with the team’s lack of success. People seem to put it all on A-Rod, and characterize him as being the one to blame.
It also seems way too much is made of his relationship with Jeter. They’re not 21 & 23 year olds anymore. Who among us who are over 30 still hangs out the same way with the same guys we did when we were that age? For example, I still have a lot of those old friends but its different now. In a good way. It doesn’t mean things have gone sour … A-Rod and Jeter are just older than they were when they met 14 or so years ago and they’ve evolved.
Then there’s the aspect of A-Rod not being Albert Pujols, which you don’t mention (you don’t need to) but it’s often brought up by those A-Rod critics. Who else in the game is anything close to Albert Pujols? If anyone who’s critical of A-Rod for not being Albert Pujols, why aren’t they also being critical of the hundreds of other players who aren’t? Or even of just the 50 or so high-paid all-star level players who aren’t Albert Pujols? They should think about what they’re actually saying if they’re characterizing A-Rod as being so terrible, because he’s among the best 2 or 3 players on earth who aren’t as good as Albert Pujols. To characterize and criticize him is the easier thing but that doesn’t necessarily make it right or correct.
And how about the people who criticize A-Rod as being, as you worded it, ” … a ‘me-first’ player who destroys team chemistry … ” yet they want the Yankees to sign MANNY FREAKIN’ RAMIREZ of all players. If I were to elaborate on that topic I’d rant on with a post so extensive and lengthy that it can be seen from outer space. (right, Dave?)
Etc. etc. etc …
Thanks again for the better perspective, Travis.
Clarification: Cubs don’t need waivers to trade him, but, the team that gets him, has to keep him in the majors or get rid of him…..not happening.
1) Good post, Travis.
2) I don’t know if any of you guys have seen this, but Curt Schilling did a tribute to Todd Drew: http://38pitches.weei.com/gene.....me-to-me/.
Good Yankee teams always had at least 2 good alley hitters in the lineup. For an average runner in the Stadium it’s a sure double and no worse than a sliding triple for a fleet runner.
Much the same at other ballparks.
Did Griffey get this sort of grief for leaving Seattle?
You gotta realize if there was a burning building with 12 children trapped inside and ARod went into the flames and rescued 11 of them there would be some who would write about how ARod left a child in a burning building to die.
Sad but true
her whole argument could have been better if she didn’t use Arod as some sort of bad omen. Its totally arbitrary and one has nothing to do with the other. As she stated, the sole reason why teams were better is because of better pitching. It starts with pitching and it ends with pitching.
A four-year, $41 million contract with Kevin Youkilis, according to multiple baseball sources. The deal includes a $13 million club option for 2013 and a $1 million buyout of that option, which disappears if the Sox pick it up.
……………………………………….
Youkilis got snookered and John Henry must be splitting a gut laughing about it. Derek Lowe gets 4 years and $60 million. By the time Youkilis reaches free agency again, he’ll get peanuts.
Rebecca -
Wow. I am truly awed.
Todd touched a lot of people.
The money clearly doesnt matter to some of those guys in boston. But that should be clear from looking at them. Don’t wash, shower, clean up, dress up. When it comes down to it, they dont really need the money anyway.
86w183 – You got it. Or as Pete has said in the past, if A-Rod were to cure cancer some people would still criticize him for not curing other diseases.
** The money clearly doesnt matter to some of those guys in boston. But that should be clear from looking at them. Don’t wash, shower, clean up, dress up. When it comes down to it, they dont really need the money anyway.
—
Huh? It never ceases to amaze me what people will write sometimes.
I know we as Yankees fans “don’t like” the Boston Red Sox as a rival team. But does it have to be personal?
Not only that, why is it beyond belief that the guys who play for Boston ENJOY playing for Boston? It doesn’t take anything away from the Yankees or our love of the Yankees to acknowledge that Boston is also a franchise with a deep and storied history. And while not as successful as NY, has had some really wonderful players go through there. The guys who play there now seem to be enjoying their time there. And, to top it off, they have one of the games better managers and good-guys in Francona.
I do wonder how Boston does it, though – getting those hometown discounts. Didn’t Bronson Arroyo take one and then promptly get traded?
Nice post by the guest blogger despite Peter’s comments afterwards.
“And how about the people who criticize A-Rod as being, as you worded it, ” … a ‘me-first’ player who destroys team chemistry … ” yet they want the Yankees to sign MANNY FREAKIN’ RAMIREZ of all players.”
I’m not for Manny Ramirez AT ALL, BUT, Manny can do what he wants to the ball when he wants to do it. A-Rod is a great hitter and i’m taking nothing away from him, but Manny is a MUCH better hitter than A-Rod.
Little do people know, Manny is as intelligent as they come. He will purposely look foolish against certain pitches early in the game, just to set a pitcher up for later on. He is as close to a Ted Williams, in terms of how he approaches hitting, as I will ever see.
A-Rod is a very good hitter, and accumulates tons of stats, but, in a 3-2 game bases loaded bottom 9 2 outs, I want Manny at the plate.
Doreen
You would think the Arroyo situation last year and even the Lowell trade talk this off season would make some of these players think twice but it doesn’t seem to. Them not being Boras clients helps too.
Wonder if Pedroia and Youkilis got no trades in their deals at least.
Theo and Sox management selling the we’re a small budget team while having the highest average ticket prices in the league really is amusing but John Henry didn’t get rich by giving it away.
You got it Doreen. Signed arroyo to a new deal and traded him for….. Wait for it….. Willy Mo Pena. LOL
Pedroia has two seasons in the big leagues. Youkilis just had his first season with more than 16 HR, 83 RBI and a BA better than .288…
Each got over $ 40 Million guaranteed.
IF they continue to stay healthy and play at their highest level it’s a great deal for the Sawx, but it’s pretty risky if you ask me, expecially with Youkilis who just had a career year at age 29.
pat -
I certainly don’t understand how they can get away with claiming they’re a small market team with a limited budget. They may have want to limit their budget, but that’s more of a choice.
I just thought of something – which the Arroyo trade kind of touched off in my mind. By getting these really good players to sign moderate contracts, it also makes it easier to trade them. So, while it may seem outwardly that the contracts give them more security, it doesn’t necessarily have to work that way.
i looked it up yesterday, youk has made just over $4 million for his career. thats nice but he’s still two years from free agency. the sox put $40 million on the table. i cant see how anybody could criticize the guy for taking it.
Ham Fighters -
I don’t know about anyone else, but I would sign that contract, too. What I focus on is how it’s a good deal for both sides.
Think about Youkilis – could be a great deal for the Sox, whether Youk stays the same or gets better. He’s 29? Well, suppose he has another good year in 2009, maybe not AS good, but good. The Sox could trade him and his cost is not all that high for another team to take on. And it would only be another 3 years on the contract – also something attractive to another team. Maybe. Just thinking.
Boston doesn’t really get “hometown discounts”. Youkilis had his first really good star type season out of his 4 full years. Wakefield has a deal that works for him and 15 year ago nobody but Boston wanted him. If he left there, teams would have to find a catcher that could actually catch him. Varitek can’t, and most catchers can’t, so you have to make a deal with Boston to get a catcher.
Don’t know what sort of deal Arroyo could have gotten, but, he’s nothing special anyway. With Ortiz, only two other teams would pay 12 mil for a DH (Yanks and Angels) and they had no room for him. Before that, he was unwanted and signed a 2 year deal with option for 6 mil each.
NYY could have locked up Cano and Wang early and chose not to.
“i looked it up yesterday, youk has made just over $4 million for his career. thats nice but he’s still two years from free agency. the sox put $40 million on the table. i cant see how anybody could criticize the guy for taking it.”
Good point, hf. $40MM is a lot of money to turn your back on, especially when you aren’t rich already. He can’t be sure what will happen in the future. He won’t be mega-rich but he and his family will never have to worry about making a living after baseball.
What’s his batting average when he’s nervous, and how often does he get the jitters? We know why Alex Rodriguez is the highest paid player in baseball. We also know that he’s a monument to the limited usefulness of statistics.
Look–ARod has bigger issues that the “girly slap.” Like, what’s up with this thing for much older women?
JoeyA
January 16th, 2009 at 11:12 am
“And how about the people who criticize A-Rod as being, as you worded it, ” … a ‘me-first’ player who destroys team chemistry … ” yet they want the Yankees to sign MANNY FREAKIN’ RAMIREZ of all players.”
I’m not for Manny Ramirez AT ALL, BUT, Manny can do what he wants to the ball when he wants to do it. A-Rod is a great hitter and i’m taking nothing away from him, but Manny is a MUCH better hitter than A-Rod.
Little do people know, Manny is as intelligent as they come. He will purposely look foolish against certain pitches early in the game, just to set a pitcher up for later on. He is as close to a Ted Williams, in terms of how he approaches hitting, as I will ever see.
A-Rod is a very good hitter, and accumulates tons of stats, but, in a 3-2 game bases loaded bottom 9 2 outs, I want Manny at the plate.
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Manny Ramirez isn’t anything like Ted Williams. If you want to compare hitters to Williams, try Albert Pujols. Ramirez strikes out way too much to be compared to Wiliams.
“Look—ARod has bigger issues that the “girly slap.” Like, what’s up with this thing for much older women?”
Kate Hudson is younger than A-rod..
i especially love the 2001 Mariners example.
a team that excelled in the regular season and CHOKED IN THE PLAYOFFS.
isn’t that exactly what all you yahoos rip on A-Rod for?
can’t have it both ways people.
if A-Rod is the playoff choker, why did a 116 win team lose to the Yankees in 5 games in the playoffs after A-Rod was gone?
I know we can win a championship with Arod and he’s going to go crazy in the playoffs sooner or later, he’s just too damn good not to. Go Arod! Go Yankees!
That Yankee decline since 2003 may have something to do with crappy pitching, older players, and other teams getting better. What have the Marlins done since they won the world series in 2003? To blame a-rod is just ridiculous. And baseball isnt football. You dont need team chemistry to win.
Very well written, great read
Whatever your opinion on Arod, you have to agree that this pinch hitter blog correspondent has stimulated the discussion here. Thanks.
Thanks, Don, that was my intention.
to ‘Ham Fighters’, i didn’t realize i had to explicitly write ‘Yes, the Yankees CAN win with Arod’. i thought that was evident in the verdict i gave.
as for Arod money preventing teams from signing pitchers, i meant it (far) more in regards to his first two teams (that supposedly have budgets).
to ‘Brad Pitt’, obviously i dont literally mean that teams forget that pitchers make up half a baseball team. that shouldn’t be taken so literally. it’s more about the attention Arod gets, and the possible financial restraint it puts on medium market teams (like Seattle and Texas).