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What about Garland or Sheets?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 16, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

There have been two questions popping up on e-mail a lot lately:

What about Jon Garland? What about Ben Sheets?

So let’s try and answer them.

Garland: He was 14-8 with a 4.90 ERA for a playoff team last season and he’s only 29. Seems like a reasonable idea to sign him. But when you look a little more closely, you find that he allowed 237 hits and 59 walks over 196.2 innings along with hitting eight batters. A 1.51 WHIP is not pretty. Garland also a 5.99 ERA in the second half, 7.18 in September.

He struck out 4.12 over nine innings, the lowest rate of his career. Opponents had a .355 OBP against him. So while he may have won 14 games, he had a lousy season. It’s hard to picture him coming into the AL East and pitching well.

Sheets: This one is a little more simple. Sheets ended last season with a bad elbow. But word is that the MRI taken on his shoulder was a cause for major concern. Many teams believe that Sheets’ arm is not worth any sort of risk. He certainly must regret rejecting arbitration from Milwaukee given that no team is known to have made him an offer.

If any team — even the Yankees — is going to spend money at this point, they would want some cost certainty in terms of at least innings. Sheets doesn’t offer that.

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313 Responses to “What about Garland or Sheets?”

  1. sunny615 January 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    I’m great if they don’t sign either of them. No thanks.

  2. Tint January 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    I would take Sheets over anyone regardless of the cost. Yes, he has been injured, but that didn’t stop the Yankees from getting Burnett (who actually had more injuries).

    Right now the Yankees are a big time contender. If they got a guy like Sheets, I think that puts them over the edge and makes them the clear favorite.

  3. sunny615 January 16th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Even Perez offers something more than either of those two at this point, and you know he’s going to cost 3/30 at the least. So no on him too. At this point, if Andy doesn’t come around (I harbor no ill will against him, just disappointed a little), then I guess you go with what you got on the farm. But I’m sure there are other options out there for a 4th or 5th guy somewhere. I have no doubt Cash is leaving no stone unturned, whether that be some back guy in the market or via trade giving up Nady. Cash’ll come through.

  4. sunny615 January 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    no offense tint, but considering the Yanks employ some pretty smart people who have medical backgrounds and actually have access to Sheets’ medical reports, I’d take them on their word if they told Cashman not to do it. As a fan, it’s hard to disregard that ceiling and past performance, but the future isn’t dictated by what he’s done in the past. If they say to pass, I’ll believe ‘em.

  5. emac2 January 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    I disagree that what the Yankees need is innings. What the Yankees need is 4 really good starters for the playoffs and the more good starters we get the more likely we are 4 will be healthy.

  6. Garym(Yanks and More) January 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Pete your right about Garland. I would take sheets though for 1 yr maybe 2 with incentives. At this point he may have to take it.

  7. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 16th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Not good and not worth the risk, respectively

  8. TKinDC January 16th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    After the American Idle we just can’t roll the dice with an injury prone starter.

    Durability is an attribute just like having a good fastball is an attribute. While I don’t have a strong objection to a short term/incentive laden deal for a guy like Sheets, I am not going to be too hot to go after him

  9. Ryan January 16th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Why not wait until June/July to pick up a back of the rotation guy? At that point there will be at least a few teams interested in shedding players that are both behind in the standings and worried about their economics. I’d take each of these two for a year over Pettitte. Assuming you could get them to sign a year long deal, chances are they would be better/just as good as Pettitte and cheaper. When you’re spending 10 million + on a pitcher, his #1 attribute shouldn’t be “uh, he’ll pitch lots of innings”.

  10. Boof Henderson January 16th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    Why not offer Sheets a 1yr deal with an option…he can start the year on the DL like Smoltz..and comeback when he is ready

    a healthy Sheets has the best stuff on our staff. his repertoire is nasty

    if Sheets makes 20-25 starts down the stretch and playoffs

    its number ” 27 ” for sure

  11. Drew January 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Andy needs to get his head out of his ass so Randy Wolf doesn’t end up here.

  12. Peter Abraham January 16th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    I guess I didn’t make this clear enough:

    Sheets has a bad shoulder that is only going to get worse. Shoulder injuries are very,very, very, very bad for pitchers. Elbows are easy to fix, shoulders not so much. If it’s a labrum, it can be a year-long rehab and a sharp decrease in velocity.

    Now maybe you just roll the dice. But it would be a major risk and nothing in his history suggests Sheets will stay healthy.

  13. pat January 16th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Pete

    Is there still an offer on the table to Andy?

    It’s easy for everyone to say he needs to take the $10M and be done with it but Heyman says that offer no longer exists. Hard for him to accept if the Yankees are no longer offering.

  14. Boof Henderson January 16th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    thought Sheets had forearm tightness?

  15. Bob(The Original) January 16th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Jaret Wright failed his physical and the Yanks still signed him.

  16. Ryan January 16th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Pete,

    Sheets missed the end of September with a torn muscle in his elbow, not shoulder.

  17. Peter Abraham January 16th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    Ryan:

    Read the post again. I know that.

  18. Tint January 16th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    But Pete, what if they offered him a decent short-term deal but gave him a ton of incentives if he stays healthy.

    Kind of like what the Indians just gave Pavano. Somewhat high-risk, but extremely high reward.

    Is there any chance Sheets accepts a deal that is largely based on “staying healthy” incentives?

  19. Garym(Yanks and More) January 16th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Yeah in that case your right Pete. I wouldn’t take the risk then but if no petitte then where do you turn? A trade,Randy Wolf? Freddy Garcia? I dont know the best thing may be to make a deal with Petitte somehow. Pete I sent you an email earlier regarding my post, did you recieve it?

  20. jake January 16th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Thank you, Peter, for your thoughtful comments on this matter. Simply put, Garland isn’t a very good pitcher and Sheets isn’t reliably healthy.
    I’ve found it downright weird that any Yankees’ fan would have been talking this off-season about Garland. If you’ve seen him pitch recently, you know that he’s just not very good. Came up with a lot of promise, but, fact is, he’s had one outstanding year, a bunch of mediocre ones, and last year he was terrible. I’ve got nothing against the guy, and wish him well, but he belongs in the NL, if he belongs in the majors at all, and nowhere near the Yanks’ staff. I mean, if the Yanks like Garland, I’d remind them that Jeff Weaver would probably do as well and would cost them a lot less. Garland eats innings, but he’d be meat in the AL east.
    As for Sheets, that’s a sad case. But it is what it is. He’s a terrific pitcher, easily one of the best pure pitchers in the game. But his body keeps breaking down. He always pitches well, but he hasn’t pitched a full season since 2004, and he’s hurt again. Not good.
    What the Yanks need from the next guy added to their rotation is reliability and good quality. They don’t need a guy who strikes out 245 guys with an ERA below 3.00. They’ve already got a couple of guys who might do that. They need a reliable guy who can pitch to a league-average ERA and give them 185+ innings. Garland would give them 200 innings if they could tolerate a 5.19 ERA. They can’t. Sheets would pitch to a 3.60 ERA but might give them only 83 innings. That wouldn’t work, either. Not at any price. And Sheets won’t sign for $400,000.
    Leaving the last spot in the rotation open to whoever wins the competition between Hughes and Aceves and Kennedy and Coke certainly would make more sense than signing Garland or Sheets.
    The truth is: Andy Pettitte would be their smartest move. Pettitte knows this, and the Yankees know it, too.

  21. Steve January 16th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Sheets is a major risk, but it’s only money. Garland isn’t worth big bucks and the Yanks can do just as well with one of their own.
    Think Phil Hughes…Don’t give up on him…

  22. PAT M January 16th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    As stated many times before…..Pettite returns at 12-13 million….For all the media reports that have been bounced around the bottom line is the Yanks need Andy…He may not be worth 10 million on the open market right now, but to the Yanks success for 09 he’s easily worth 12-13 million for this one season…..The deal gets done…..I’m know I’m being redundant, however it makes perfect sense when all things are considered…..Hughes starts in AAA, and for that to happen Pettite needs to return…..

  23. Boston Dave January 16th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Enough with the Ben Sheets posts…

    don’t you think, if Sheets had a reasonable chance of contributing much in 2009, he’d have at least ONE offer???

    nobody wants this guy even though his stuff is nasty. gee, i wonder why. maybe his medicals look horrible, coupled with the fact that he has a history of perpetual injury.

    heck, maybe they can get Mark Prior too.

    listen to Pete on this one.

  24. SRSI January 16th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    My thinking goes along with what most people seem to be saying. Pettite is the perfect fit for what the Yanks pitching staff needs to be complete. I think Andy feels un-loved just like he did when George took Boomer out for a burger and he ended up signing with Houston. Hank and Hal need to fly to Texas and let him know how much he has meant to the franchise. If they won’t do that just show him Pete’s blog and how much love he gets here.

  25. Boston Dave January 16th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    “As stated many times before…..Pettite returns at 12-13 million”

    many is an understatement. we’re all beating a dead horse on that one.

    either pettitte swallows his pride and accepts the absolute highest offer of $10M, or the yankees move on. case closed.

  26. Smarter than you January 16th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    The Yankees have enough pitching.

    But they need a back up infielder who can actually field; Ransom can’t.

    I also wouldn’t mind upgrading the C position because no one really knows if Posada will be able to catch (and throw) effectively over an extended period.

  27. Smarter than you January 16th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    “January 16th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    As stated many times before…..Pettite returns at 12-13 million…”
    __

    Pass. I hope he signs with the Mets.

  28. rifalcon42 January 16th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    i hope pettitte does resign, we ( like pete has stated numerous times!) need an innings eater and need to limit jobas innings in the 5 slot as well as give hughes more time to mature in aaa… i started drinking the kool aid you haters were servin up regarding andy, but as pete stated, he was in fact a valuable commodity to the team last year and we could REALLY use him right now! i say the yanks resign him, trade nady and maybe a prospect for a backup infielder and/or a back up catcher as well as whatever else we can get

  29. PAT M January 16th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Boston Dave , time will tell…I took the same heat on AJ & Texeria, but in the end, well we know how that turned out….

  30. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Steve, it’s not just money. It’s all the starts Sheets is supposed to make that he won’t make, and going down the injury path we went down last year…

  31. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    Pat M,

    I’d be fine if you’re right on this one… just don’t see the Yankees outbidding themselves this time around.

  32. yezo January 17th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    JUST GIVE 12-13 MILLIONS TO PETTITTE AND EVERITHING IS SOLVED, I THINK HE IS WORTHY, AND I THINK HE’S GOING TO HAVE A BETTER YEAR THAN LAST ONE BECAUSE AL THE HGH DABTE IS BEHIND.

  33. Thrillington January 17th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Sign Colter Bean. Case closed.

  34. Tom K January 17th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    I have always been a big fan of Sheets (anyone with his combination of power and command is someone I want)

    But that is the catch – the fact is that ANY team in baseball would love his combination of power & command..and yet, not a single team has seemingly offered him anything.

    For the Yankees, if they felt there was any chance in heck he can be effective in 2009, the risk is MUCH lower than most of the other teams; because Sheets is a Type A (and the Yankees have already signed 3 Type A’s), the cost is essentially a 4th round pick.

    And I believe that is an angle that perhaps some are forgetting about; yes, the injury is scary…scary enough where perhaps you don’t want to give up a first-rounder to take the risk. Teams could be shying away for that reason; and that would not be a reason for the Yankees to shy away.

  35. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    Andy Pettitte let up 233 hits in 204 innings with 55 walks
    Jon Garland let up 237 hits in 197 innings with 59 walks
    Ben Sheets let up 181 hits in 198 innings with 47 walks

    With all the bad options left on the free agent market only three really fit for the yanks – pettitte, garland and sheets. At this point, I have to think pettitte would cost the most out of all of them even though he is by far the oldest of the three and does not have the most talent. But irregardless the yanks need another starter and if they dont make a trade, these three are really the only options unless you want cash to sign a whole bunch of nothing for a mil here and a mil there and see who works out with high risk/low reward players.

    If the yanks dont want to cave in to pettitte’s demands, Obviously andy did a little bit better but garland is 29 and perfectly capable of turning things around. Players dont usually go on a steep decline when they are in their late 20s. The arguments against garland always conveniently leave out his age. At 36, Pettitte is far, far more likely to be showing signs of decline rather than just bad mechanics or something else that could be remedied. Im not saying garland will be better than pettitte but there is certainly more reason to expect garland’s numbers to improve more than pettitte’s numbers next season merely based on age. So if you want pettitte back, there is no reason not to take a shot on garland for less money.

    Sheets has undoubtedly drastically lowered his expectations in the face of being considered the riskiest player on the FA market. It has not been reported what kind of contract sheets is looking for in months. So obviously, he does not have his sights set high. Any player is worth the risk for a price. And at less than 10 mil for one year, what exactly do the yanks have to lose? He wont even be the worst contract the yanks have signed in the last two years if he is out most of the season. And with an 8 mil contract, even giving us half of a season or about 100 innings will mean we got our moneys worth from sheets.

    Pete, where exactly are you getting that he went on the dl for his elbow? You need to do a little more research before you write that because his elbow was not the reason he went on the dl in september. It was a tear in a forearm flexor muscle and has nothing to do with his elbow. This is why perception of his risk has likely exceded sheets actual risk because of comments like the one above. Im assuming the mri about his shoulder has some validity but considering that is not the reason he went on the dl in september, i dunno when his shoulder started acting up. I am assuming it is an older injury that he can most likely pitch through as he clearly has been pitching through it so far. With all of sheets ailments, he has NEVER pitched less than 100 innings in one season so if we pay him 8 mil and expect sheets to match the worst season he has ever pitched, we would still get our moneys worth from him.

    I realize all three of these options are risky but facts are facts. Outside of a trade, we dont have many choices. These three are about it if we want to sign another pitcher. With the price tag on these three players none of which are likely greater than pettitte’s one year and 12 mil or so, we could potentially get the value of that contract out of any of the three above. And if we dont, it isnt that much money to take a gamble with for this team. The question is do you want to take a risk on a pitcher who is well past his prime for more money than he deserves, a pitcher that has hit a bump in the middle of his career and may recover or not or a player that has ace potential but also has health concerns. Either way, i think we must sign one of these three to make sure our rotation is stable and we have the depth to overcome injuries and ineffectiveness whenever it may arise. Joba, Aceves, Hughes and Kennedy, two of which would hold rotation spots out of spring training is just too much of a risk, far more of a risk than it would be spending less than 13 mil on one of those pitchers above and hoping they fill the last spot in the rotation to the best of their abilities. If the yankees organization is doing everything within their power to ensure that we will have a successful year next season which is what they claimed before the off season started, they would do well to sign one of these pitchers to ensure a stable rotation – if they can take a five year 82 mil dollar game on aj Burnet, they can certainly “gamble” another 10 mil on the last pitcher.

  36. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    yezo,

    I have a car for sale. It books for $7000 but nobody has offered even $6000 for it in months. but I’ll sell it to you for $9000. It’s not in the best shape and doesn’t drive like it used to but should last you a year or so.

  37. bardos January 17th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    what tickles the mind is that the brewers, who know sheets the best, offered him arbitration. they were willing to go to war with him on the mound.

  38. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Tom,

    another good post. you’re on a roll.

  39. Nick in SF January 17th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Compromise: Let John Henry fly down to talk to Andy. He’ll come running to Cashman and take the $10mm the next day.

  40. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Pete,

    When exactly did he get this shoulder injury? Because he obviously did not go on the dl during the season because of it. So he either pitched through it during the season last year which isnt so easy to do esp when he had a 3 era or he got it doing something else in the off season? Shoulder injuries dont just pop up out of nowhere yet, the story that he had a bad shoulder seemed to all come up around early january. What was he doing in december or january to injure his shoulder? The whole story makes very little sense to me.

    Boof,

    Who says sheets is starting the season on the dl? I have never heard anyone say that? You would think if he was as injured as everyone says he is, he wouldnt be able to start the season on time. But not a single article has said he wouldnt be ready.

  41. DT January 17th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    It would seem that if Sheets is that high of an injury risk – Boston would have already signed him. ;-)

  42. Nick in SF January 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    The used car analogy is flawed unless your car can retire if it isn’t happy with the offers.

  43. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    i didnt even have to look at the top of that post to know that dave wrote it.

    as with all 7500 word posts, i had no intention of reading it, but fortunately i did happen to catch his use of our favorite word “irregardless”. love it.

    you really need to start your own blog or cut the comments down by 900%. irregardless, as a fellow yankee fan, i hope you don’t get carpal tunnel.

  44. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Nick,

    I knew there were flaws in that analogy and should have known you’d be the one to find them :)

    maybe I should have gone with a $500 86′ Chevy Cavalier.

  45. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Tom,

    You can take it as a negative that he doesnt have much interest so lets just do what every other team thinks is best or you can take it as a positive – only a couple of teams are interested in sheets so his price tag is significantly lower than it would ever be under normal circumstances so lets take a risk and try to catch lightening in a bottle. iF sheets was not a risk then his price would be almost as large as CC’s. But because he is, his price is going to be less than 10 mil. Big markets like the yanks have the kind of money where they can easily gamble away 10 mil or less to see if sheets can give them enough innings until hughes is ready. The yanks are almost the perfect team to sign him because they have the money so it will barely effect them if it doesnt work out and they only need about 100 innings so even a half of a year of sheets would still be getting their moneys worth out of the contract. And teams being scared of taking the risk for sheets doesnt mean sheets is doomed to fail – they just dont want to take the gamble. Sheets could very easily surprise everyone and pitch 200 innings last he did last season.If his shoulder and his elbow and his back are THAT bad, i dont know how in the world he pitched 200 innings of ace-like ball last year. He must be superman or some of these injuries are overblown.

  46. DT January 17th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    Dave’s heart is in the right place and he sounds like a passionate Yankee fan –
    - but if he’s going to be a doctor, I feel sorry for the pharmacist.

  47. Jason January 17th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    What about that Cuban guy who defected and is looking for work. I heard he was stellar in the WBC 4 years ago. maybe you could sign them both, I think the other guy was a speedy CF that hits for average. Any idea what those guys are asking in terms of contract?

  48. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    i only post less than an hour a day or so. I doubt i am at risk for carpal tunnel.

    I am probably going to start a blog at some point just not now.

  49. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    dave: Word to the wise, irregardless is not a word, even if spell check doesn’t happen.

    ir + regardless = double negative = big no-no.

    It’s just ‘regardless’ ;)

  50. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    dave,

    you’re right, I’ll let it be. I personally don’t read super-long posts but it’s your prerogative… and you are rooting for the Yanks so it’s fine by me.

  51. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    The attractive optional equipment on the Pettite vehicle is that your only leasing it for one year….And you know the model……

  52. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    I love how this blog started out as mostly supporting the yanks signing sheets. Even in the poll, sheets led AJ and Lowe in who the yanks should sign. All of a sudden there is about three bloggers on here who agree we should sign sheets and about five who think we should sign sheets if he is less than 5 mil for one year. Its great how many people just jump on the bandwagon that the media has created instead of actually thinking for themselves or supporting their original opinion instead of flip flopping. And the best is the ppl that comment about how the yanks dont seem interested in sheets and they are all smarter and have more info than I do so I dont want to sign him either … Yea, way to think for yourself there. And the yanks have never said they wouldnt sign sheets at any price or even that they arent considering him.

    Finally, isnt one of the purposes of this blog so we can discuss and disagree with eachother and the team’s opinion and positions. Just because they have all the info in the world and they are smart doesnt mean they always make the right decision … They had the same info when they signed igawa, pavano and wright, how did that work out. And every other team in the league also want pavano which is the main support cash gets for signing him.. How did it work out to follow every one else in the league’s opinion? Most of these arguments against sheets that use the evidence above are strong because they rely on the opinions of others more than actual facts or thinking about it yourself.

  53. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    I meant to write the argument are NOT strong

  54. DT January 17th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Rebecca –

    Normally I would agree with you. BUT – not in this case –
    You could type – “Sheets will be on the IR regardless.”

    in that case ir + regardless would work. :-)

  55. rifalcon42 January 17th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    “dave: Word to the wise, irregardless is not a word, even if spell check doesn’t happen.

    ir + regardless = double negative = big no-no.

    It’s just ‘regardless’ ”

    irregardless, thats one of my favorite words too! lol

  56. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Pat M,

    agreed. but i doubt many of us have ever payed 50-75% over market/book value for a car. there has to be compromise.

    considering $10M is already over market value (possibly by quite a bit), it seems like a very fair offer.

    I would love Andy to come back at 10 or even 12M but I do not blame the Yankees one bit for not outbidding themselves when they definitely don’t need to.

  57. no.27 January 17th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Jon Garland doesn’t need a steep decline to be a bad pitcher next season. He’s got a 4.5 ERA for his career and has only had 2 full seasons with an ERA under 4.5 (4.23 and 3.50). His career average is right around what Pettitte is getting killed for doing last year.

  58. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Can some other team PLEASE sign Sheets so we don’t have to read the same posts day in and day out anymore about how great his stuff is and how hooked up the Yankees rotation would be if he makes 22 starts? PLEASE???
    If the Yankees OR ANY OTHER TEAM IN BASEBALL thought he could make 22 starts, he would have had at least one offer by now.

    Please, let the Rangers continue their bizzare obsession with bringin’ home pitchers from the DFW area and put this nonsense to a merciful end!

    The Yankees need to either raise their offer to Andy or make a conscious decision to “break up” and move on, because at this point it is precluding their adding extra depth. Like Garcia for example. Per MLBTR, Freddy Sez that he would be willing to accept a minor league deal so long as he is given a chance to start. So if the Yankees decide they want to go the “battle for the 5th spot” route then I think they should throw him and maybe one other ‘take a flier’ type arm (Rich Hill was a recent suggestion here, excellent idea imo) into the mix.

  59. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Rebecca,

    I have heard that word used numerous times so I decided to look it up to check. This from webster’s dictionary:

    Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

    DT,

    My scripts wont be as long as my posts. I promise.

  60. Nick in SF January 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Ben Sheets is already a double-negative. :(

  61. Buddy Biancalana January 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Dr dave-

    At least hit the enter key every so often, even if I wanted to read your posts, you make it impossible.

  62. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    DT, that’s the first time I’ve laughed in two days. Thanks.

  63. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    You guys learned a new word but i guess regardless works just as well and is not generally accepted. That works for me because my posts about sheets are not generally accepted either but still can be considered correct among smaller groups.

  64. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    irrespective > irregardless

  65. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Buddy,

    there is 5 paragraphs in that long one. Remember, i used to write it all in one loooong block. I am trying to integrate more paragraphs into the posts so at least i am making some progress. I will try to make them more reader friendly so ppl actually read them.

  66. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    “I love how this blog started out as mostly supporting the yanks signing sheets. Even in the poll, sheets led AJ and Lowe in who the yanks should sign…Its great how many people just jump on the bandwagon that the media has created instead of actually thinking for themselves or supporting their original opinion instead of flip flopping.”

    Isn’t it amazing how people take new information and apply it to their opinions? I’d hate to think that people would refuse to change their positions despite new, pertinent, information (such as horrible medical records).

    “flip-flopping” has been wrongly given a negative connotation by politicians. I’d MUCH rather someone be capable of changing their opinion and admitting fault than somebody who sticks to their guns despite information leading otherwise.

    the information out there right now – Sheets is a tremendous risk with no guarantee (or even likely) of giving you any return.

  67. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    “That works for me because my posts about sheets are not generally accepted either but still can be considered correct among smaller groups.”….

    …even irregardless of their abject denial of his poor medicals!

  68. no.27 January 17th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    “ABOUT THIS BLOG Thoughts and discussion on the 26-time World Champion Yankees.”

    I found a blog for people who like to argue about RBIs and words like irregardless. http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/

  69. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:49 am

    no27,

    Is a 4.5 era so terrible for a number four or five starter making 30 plus starts? I wouldnt think so. Not at less than 6 mil. Andy put up an era higher than 4.5 last season …

    BBB,

    I dont like the fight it out for the fifth spot idea. Mainly because the yanks will have to throw more guys in. They pay Johnson 500 grand and garcia a mil and hill 2 mil and someone else a mil and all of a sudden they are paying the amount of money they could pay for a decent starter in a terrible market. I think they should either not be cheap with this last signing and sign someone good or just let aceves take it and pray for the best. There is no point, after spending 82 mil on Burnett to start pretending like 12 mil is too much to spend on a fourth starter anyway.

  70. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    I just think the motto in the Bronx for 09 has to be, ” It’s better to have too much tahn not enough & come uo short”…..The Yanks must make the postseason, therefore pull out all the stops….The embaressment of falling short ( plus all the loss postseason revenue ) would set the franchiseon it’s ear….They cannot run that risk I believe….If Pettite is not in the end an option, then they’ll relook and re-evaluate Ben Sheets…..Desperate times means desperate measures…..

  71. Nick in SF January 17th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    I was for Sheets before I was against him.

  72. DT January 17th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    Dave –

    I think your best bet is to take Cashman out on the town and get him soused. He might just sign Ben if he’s three Sheets to the wind.

  73. dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    BBB,

    As I have said about 10 million times at this point. i DONT disagree his medical may look bad. I just said if the brewers are willing to resign him, they cannot be as bad as the media is making it seem. The brewers doctors wrote the actual records and they still want him back. iT is clear his arm is not about to fall off and there is no evidence that he wont be ready for ST. I dont deny that he is risky, very risky but i think if his price tag falls below a certain point the yanks can afford to take the gamble. I mean I dont know how many more times or in how many more ways i need to state my stance – people keep misquoting me and misrepresenting my opinion. It is not that i dont think he is a risk and it is not that i dont think his medicals look bad! Im glad you are using the word though.

  74. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    “There is no point, after spending 82 mil on Burnett to start pretending like 12 mil is too much to spend on a fourth starter anyway.”

    I agree with your other points in the post except this one.

    there is a point… the Yankees were forced to pay for Burnett because of a competing offer. Despite not being offered arbitration, there are ZERO competing offers for Andy.

    I like Andy and really hope he smartens up and takes the best offer, by far. 1yr/$10M with the Yankees.

  75. Smarter than you January 17th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    The motto of the 2009 season will be how successful AJ is. If he is the pitcher he was last season, the Yankees will at least be a WC team. If he’s not, Hughes, Joba, and/or a declining, ungrateful Pettitte will have to scramble to pick up the slack.

  76. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    “I just said if the brewers are willing to resign him, they cannot be as bad as the media is making it seem.”

    neither you nor I know this.

    I prefer to let the fact that not a single team has seriously tried to sign him (including the Brewers) speak for itself.

    if you want to believe that the media has duped every single MLB team, go for it.

  77. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Sorry guys for all the typo errors…

  78. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Great points but I dont care I still think we should sign Sheets. I know I’ll get crap for it but if Sheets is out there in 3 more weeks the Yankees WILL make a play for him no matter what his physical says. And if somehow he will take a 1 year deal he’s well worth the chance. He sure must think that $10MM he could have had from MIL looks good right now though.

  79. Smarter than you January 17th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    In light of spending over $400 million on three FAs, the Yankees’ goal is for their aggregate payroll to be less than it was last season so they can shut up the jerks calling for a salary cap. Consequently, it’s very unlikely they will sign Sheets, and if Pettitte finally sobers up, he may well have to take $8 million.

  80. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    “I know I’ll get crap for it but if Sheets is out there in 3 more weeks the Yankees WILL make a play for him no matter what his physical says.”

    Thank God the Yankees aren’t as foolish as this post.

    no matter what his medicals say? really?

  81. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Boston Dave,

    Ben sheets medical records have not changed since september as he has not played baseball since then. Any info regarding his health since that point was known by the end of the regular season. Perhaps, mris were gotten on his shoulder or his elbow or his back in october or even november but fact is, nothing happened to sheets between the season end and now except the media playing up everything that was already there. Is sheets playing is some winter league somewhere and hurting himself? i doubt it considering his forearm is resting up. There is no report of possible surgery and no report of him possibly not being ready to start spring training. The mere fact that an article came out in january that it was his back and not his forearm should have ppl skeptical not turning completely against signing him.

    I mean why would such injuries not be reported until january? It was clear he had no injuries and if he came out with the forearm strain in september certainly all the relevant tests would be done at that point. nO WAY they would have missed back or shoulder issues after the season but found them six months later. These are all chronic problems anyway. And sheets came out of the regular season not for shoulder or back or elbow trouble but for a forearm strain? Where did this other injuries come from? How long has he had them?

    Did he pitch through them all of last season? And if so, it shows that these were not severely detrimental to his game. These are all things people should be asking themselves rather than relying on a few very unclear reports. This is why i am still saying sheets may be an option for us. I obviously wouldnt say that if i found out tomorrow he was not starting spring on time or if he was thinking about surgery or maybe even IF i actually got to see his medical reports myself and saw that his professional career may be hanging by a thread. But just the brewers mere interest tells me even the brewers think he can potentially have a solid season next year.

  82. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 1:06 am

    “They pay Johnson 500 grand and garcia a mil and hill 2 mil and someone else a mil and all of a sudden they are paying the amount of money they could pay for a decent starter in a terrible market.”

    Dave: I can appreciate this logic, though I don’t think they’d have to pay Hill 2 mil…isn’t he making under $500K now?

    Basically the Yankees just need to decide what they want to do one way or the other. Decide if they’re willing to up Andy’s offer a little bit; if not, tell him so and move on to what I believe is their Plan B, letting a bunch of guys fight it out for the 5th spot. Now whether we individually agree with their Plan B is a different issue. But if that is the plan theyre going to execute, they need to get to steppin and commit to it already, cause I for one would be more comfortable with this “competition” with one or two guys who have had MLB success in the mix.

    But if they continue to do nothing, choosing instead to vacillate between Andy and the competition, then all those “take a flyer” options will be taken by other teams, and then if things dont end up working out w/Andy it may be too late to throw a veteran into the mix.

  83. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    As an aside, why did the Yankees give $500K to Jason Johnson anyway? Has he EVER been anything but epic suck? If so, I don’t remember it.

    If they wanted to stash a “last resort” kind of guy with MLB experience in the minors like that, give me Sir Sid all day over Johnson.

  84. jay destro January 17th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    to the sheets fans…

    his arm is being held together with hope and duct tape, that doesn’t get you much in the way of innings pitched.

    be a realist.

  85. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Boston Dave,

    How has the brewers duped teams? No one outside of them or the rangers have expressed interest? MLBtraderumors reported that melvin said to a reporter that while the brewers dont have much interest in signing any other pitcher they do hold interest in re-signing sheets. That is a fact – melvin said straight from his own lips they still have interest. And there are a ton of players who may or may not have received offers but nothing has been reported – abreu being one of them. iS ABREU significantly risky or Looper or Garland who has pitched 200 innings for seven straight years? I havent heard a reported offer on any of them.

  86. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    jay,

    You examined your arm yourself? I guess hope and tape gets you pretty far because sheets pitched 200 innings of stellar ball last year. I didnt know duct tape was that stroong.

  87. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    dave,

    my response was to your flip-flopper remark. most of the people on this blog, myself included, weren’t privy to Sheets medical records in November. Once we learned how bad they were reported to be, we changed our tune on signing Sheets.

    Also, I do not know if all of his records were

    a) the same as last year
    b) available to the general MLB public
    c) as extensive as they currently are

    If you know these things as surely as you use them in your posts, you’ve failed to give any sources.

  88. DT January 17th, 2009 at 1:11 am

    I think the early media leaks of the Yanks interest in Sheets was done to spur Andy P. into signing. Obviously it didn’t work.

    I doubt the Yanks will sign Sheets because they don’t deal in incentive clauses.

    Any team signing Sheets will most likely want to protect themselves. You’ll see a contract similar to Smoltz. They’ll sign him to a low guarantee with incentives for innings pitched – along with a team/player option for a 2nd year.

    Even that is risky – because the team will have to forfeit a draft pick. Why lose a draft pick if you aren’t even sure if the guy is gonna last the year?

    Of course the Yankees can afford the 4th round pick – but now you are back to the incentive clause issue.

  89. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    “Ben sheets medical records have not changed since september as he has not played baseball since then.”

    And you’re in medical school?!

    Dude, a _lot_ can change in two months. Granted, it’s unlike Sheets incurred any other baseball injuries, but you need to do some more work on presenting your arguments.

    There is an argument, albeit incorrect, to sign Ben Sheets. The good way of presenting that argument is this:

    Ben Sheets is, statistically, the best pitcher still available on the Free Agent market. It behooves the Yankees to sign the best pitcher they can. If he’s healthy, the benefits of having him pitch would be extraordinary, and, as it is, you can possibly get away with not signing him to a long-term deal.

    Thus, the argument is not a term paper, it does not contain statements that, on their own, are inherently incorrect, and it is not repetitive.

    (Sorry, I’m blowing up at people, it’s been a rough couple of days for various reasons)

  90. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    dave,

    you need to spend less time typing epic posts and more time reading the ones you’re responding to.

    please quote me rather than butchering my posts and points in your responses.

    i never said the brewers duped anybody. I was quoting YOU in saying you believed the media were duping US.

  91. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    Dave: Not for nothin, but MLBTradeRumors also once reported that Melvin said he was interested in Kei Igawa in a Cameron trade…

  92. no.27 January 17th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    Dave,

    First, Pettitte’s ERA was 4.54 last season or .07 higher than Garland’s career ERA. Are you being serious? Do you understand what .07 means to an ERA over a season? IT’S TWO RUNS OVER THE ENTIRE SEASON. What are you talking about?

    My comment on Garland were based on you saying that if someone wants Pettitte back, they should be OK with the Yankees signing Garland. You say Garland is perfectly capable of turning things around, but he’s only had 2 seasons in his LIFE significantly better than what Pettitte did last year. He’s never done it in NY and he’s never done it in a division like the AL East. Andy Pettitte is a much better pitcher than Jon Garland for next season.

  93. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    With andy, I dont see the point of the yanks offering 10 and not 12 while giving AJ 16 plus per season. I mean AJ has a world of talent but career-wise he isnt significantly better. he has never made an all star team, never pitched in a playoff game and has not had his talent translate into actual numbers on the field in most of his seasons. He is also a significant injury risk. Andy is not much of an injury risk and will almost definitely give us 200 innings. What is another 2 mil anyway?

    The yanks all of a sudden cant afford it. At first, i thought it would be wrong to give him 12 but at this point, we are getting a little desperate and the mets may join the party on andy pretty soon. Unless andy wants his 16 from last year in which case i would say forget it, we should just give him the extra 2 mil and call it a day. iM tired of worrying about the yanks not having enough depth and im tired of having these ben sheets conversations already. They have been going on for weeks and getting the yanks nowhere. I just want to sign somebody already be it andy, sheets, garland via trade or whatever.

  94. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    With andy, I dont see the point of the yanks offering 10 and not 12 while giving AJ 16 plus per season. I mean AJ has a world of talent but career-wise he isnt significantly better. he has never made an all star team, never pitched in a playoff game and has not had his talent translate into actual numbers on the field in most of his seasons. He is also a significant injury risk. Andy is not much of an injury risk and will almost definitely give us 200 innings. What is another 2 mil anyway?

    The yanks all of a sudden cant afford it. At first, i thought it would be wrong to give him 12 but at this point, we are getting a little desperate and the mets may join the party on andy pretty soon. Unless andy wants his 16 from last year in which case i would say forget it, we should just give him the extra 2 mil and call it a day. iM tired of worrying about the yanks not having enough depth and im tired of having these ben sheets conversations already. They have been going on for weeks and getting the yanks nowhere. I just want to sign somebody already be it andy, sheets, garland via trade or whatever.

  95. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:16 am

    “to the sheets fans…

    his arm is being held together with hope and duct tape, that doesn’t get you much in the way of innings pitched.

    be a realist.”

    jay, apparently there are some in here who would still sign him and hope he can convert to a lefty.

  96. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    BBB,

    Im pretty sure that was actually true. Igawa and melky for cameron – that was also on this blog. I think that the brewers just wanted to dump camerons salary and wanted the yanks to pay most of igawas as well so it fell through.

  97. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    I like the kind and sweet Rebecca…..

  98. BBB January 17th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    “at this point, we are getting a little desperate and the mets may join the party on andy pretty soon.”

    Welp, the Mets joining the party on Jorge was enough to get the Yanks to up the ante. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see the same thing happen here.

    Personally, I hope it does. Andy is a good fit and I too am getting tired of the depth arguments.

  99. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    “With andy, I dont see the point of the yanks offering 10 and not 12 while giving AJ 16 plus per season.”

    again, there was a competing offer for AJ.

    there are ZERO competing offers for Andy.

    that’s ZERO as in 0, zilch, nada…

    if you can’t see that point, sorry.

    secondly, there is no indication that Andy would accept 12M. Has he said he would take a pay cut?

    when it comes to making unfounded assumptions, you’re doing a pretty good job tonight.

  100. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am

    Rebecca,

    That argument would not work. Trust me, I have made that one. The response to that is four words – if ben is healthy. That is all that needs to be said. So of course, i get forced into arguing over his health which is a difficult case to make. Everyone in the world who knows anything about baseball knows how good sheets is. That is not the argument against him at all. My point about staying healthy since september is that it is unrealistic to think that ben has incurred a shoulder injury since then. It takes a good amount of force for that kind of injury.

    This is something more chronic as i said in my post. So it is pretty obvious he pitched through this same injury everyone keeps on mentioned last season and he pitched damned well and for a lot of innings so the injury didnt really impact his game. And it is also clear the shoulder injury is NOT the reason he went onto the dl last year – it was his forearm. So the injury didnt effect him at all. iT is just plain naive to think he recieved a new baseball injury during the off season – almost ridiculous. And if he did, it would have been reported extensively. The med school comment is getting old by the way. I dont mean this just to you but in general, just because you guys dont agree with me doesnt mean you have to insult me. Im sorry i disagree but that doesnt all of a sudden mean I am less intelligent or whatever you guys are trying to get at by that comment.

  101. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am

    http://tinyurl.com/9kq3a4

    :D

  102. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am

    Pat M: Sorry, like I said, I’m in a bad way.

  103. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 17th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    “Sorry, like I said, I’m in a bad **mood**.

    fixed. :D

  104. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Boston Dave,

    I actually put that last part in my own post. I said if he wants 16, forget it. I guess you didnt read the whole post. I know there is no indication he will accept 12 and thas why i put that in. But i figure if 12 is a compromise perhaps, he will sign for 12. I know there is no other offer – i made that argument myself earlier this week but i dont think we have any shot at signing him for 10 and desperate times call for desperate measures as has been said here. We were bidding against ourselves for CC because we knew we had to pay him a certain amount to come here. It is the same idea with pettitte. If he wont come for 10 and we need him, it doesnt matter if he has another offer, we may have to up it anyway to resign him. Is there any unfounded assumptions in here? I hope not.

  105. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    I’m still hopeful Pettitte come back. I keep flip flopping on the idea of him coming back, but with Hughes unproven and Joba likely to stay below 200 IP, if anything should happen to Burnett or Wang we would be in serious trouble.

  106. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Pat/Ed: Heh, right now I’m just staying up cos I want to see the next guest post.

    I really shouldn’t be complaining though.

  107. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    no27,

    iM not arguing with you. I agree with you. Pettitte is definitely the better option here. My only point was that if pettitte absolutely refuses come back, garland would be a decent five starter. I never said i wanted garland more. I would prefer pettitte back much more. Garland’s career numbers and pettitte’s numbers last season are pretty close and garland is 29 so he can still turn it around after two bad seasons i would think. It is a gamble no doubt but i would still rather garland than no one.

  108. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    And I don’t think Sheets is an option, anymore. The Yankees were scared off by his medicals.

    Rosenthal wrote we aren’t in on him nor Freddy Garcia.

    The Yanks won’t go after Garland, Wolf, or Perez because they want multi-year contracts and we won’t offer them that. They Yanks are not going to block the likes of Hughes, Kennedy, etc for guys like that.

    It’s either Pettitte for one year or Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, and Coke battle it out and pray we can get enough innings from those kids.

  109. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    A few weeks ago there was an overhead picture of a Christmas tree postioned on the pitchers mound on a snow covered Yankee Stadium….Now throw some lights on that tree and that’s what we’ll get if Garland were to be signed……No Garland…..

  110. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 17th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    Rebecca,

    oh…its either Pete is busy tonight or the person isn’t ready to send it in. If you getting tired, then check it tomorrow. :D

  111. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:36 am

    “but i dont think we have any shot at signing him for 10 and desperate times call for desperate measures as has been said here. We were bidding against ourselves for CC because we knew we had to pay him a certain amount to come here.”

    I guess we have to agree to disagree. There are far more differences between the CC negotiations and Andy’s than similarities. Andy has one offer. as it stands now, he can either pitch for the Yankees for $10M, or stay home for $0.

    I’d be shocked if another team comes in and offers more than $10M. It could happen but I’d be very surprised and there are no indications of it happening.

  112. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Boston Dave,

    So you dont want to up pettitte’s offer because you did not like my post about that and you dont want to sign sheets because you did not like my posts about that? You want to stick with the kids and pray for the best? Because there are four pitchers right now that have to cover the fourth and the fifth spot and cover for injury – i AM just trying to find the best of the bad options and hoping the yanks take the risk for money that they can afford to spend. I know how risky all these options are and I dont think pettitte deserves more money but its either go into this season similar to how we went into last season relying on kids to stabilize our rotation and hoping for the very best or we take the gamble and sign one more risky pitcher. There isnt many other ways to go.

  113. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:39 am

    “desperate times call for desperate measures as has been said here.”

    are you talking about the yankees needing a 5th starter or Andy realizing that he has only one offer and it’s mid-January?

    The Yankees have a bunch of options for their last spot. Andy only has two (yanks or nobody). If Andy wants to play baseball again, I’d say he is the desperate one right now.

  114. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Boston Dave,

    I think the mets could jump in and offer andy more.

    Its not like im the biggest sheets fan in the world or i just love to see the yanks give andy money. I just dont feel comfortable with the rotation as it stands and I am trying to find a solution to the problem. I have been arguing to sign sheets for so long, it gives off the appearance that I have some vested interest in some team signing sheets. Frankly, I could care less about the guy if we sign pettitte. And its not like i think jon garland is god’s gift to man either. I think he is worse than mediocre but as i said desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont want andy to retire so i feel that if all it takes for us to get him is another 2 mil, the yanks should do it. Whats another two mil? if it takes 16, forget him.

  115. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Ed: It’s an idea, sure. But I’m in the middle of reading a magazine, anyway.

  116. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    dave,

    no. I’m suggesting the Yankees don’t lose all sense of what it takes to run a successful team because they don’t currently have a definitive 5th starter in mid-January.

    they have the highest, and only, offer to Andy. they have apparently decided they don’t want a guy who is questionable to throw more than 30 innings.

    I couldn’t be more ok with that. In fact, I love the direction the Yanks are taking.

  117. PRAWN15 January 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    Pettite will be back with the Yankees. He will drag this thing out until the first week of Feb. He will then realize that the Yankees can and will go on without him. Against the advise of his agents, he will have a “face to face” meeting with Cashman and he will iron out a deal.

  118. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 1:45 am

    It’s not the last spot in the rotation, it’s the 4th spot, which means throwing every fifth day and will be slated to make 33 starts & toss at least 200 innings…Joba is the # 5 guy and will make less starts, this must not be overlooked..

  119. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:45 am

    Boston Dave,

    Who are the yanks “bunch of options.” It doesnt seem to me that you like any of the few options they have left.

  120. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:48 am

    What is losing all sense of running a successful team? Offering pettitte an extra couple of million to make sure he comes back? Who may not be able to pitch more than 30 innings?

  121. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:48 am

    dave,

    friendly bet. i say the mets won’t even offer $10M, let alone more.

    they’d rather have Perez or Wolf. maybe if both of those guys sign elsewhere…

    I stand behind the Yankees not outbidding themselves for someone who doesn’t even have a single offer from anybody else. say that out loud a couple times…

    “Andy Pettitte doesn’t have a single offer from ANYBODY other than the Yankees. Andy Pettitte doesn’t have a single offer from ANYBODY other than the Yankees. ”

    and we are talking about upping the only offer? ouch.

  122. Buddy Biancalana January 17th, 2009 at 1:49 am

    I like Rebecca with an edge.

  123. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    “Who are the yanks “bunch of options.” It doesnt seem to me that you like any of the few options they have left.”

    I’d rather they sign Pettitte. I’d continue to explore making a trade. See if there are still decent guys unsigned in a month who need to sign for a big discount.

    Otherwise, let guys battle it out in Spring Training. If they have to, they have the pieces to make a mid-season trade.

    At no point do I want the Yankees to panic in mid-January and cave in to Andy because he let his ego and emotions get in the way.

  124. bru January 17th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    PAT M
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am
    The attractive optional equipment on the Pettite vehicle is that your only leasing it for one year….And you know the model……
    ———————————————————–

    it appears that for 16 million that the yankees do not agree.

  125. dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:53 am

    I dont like a guy who has never been healthy for two consecutive seasons in his nine year career being signed to a 5 year deal but other than that, i think it has been a very successful off season so far and the yanks are going the right direction. But they cant just stop now. They have not finished – we need another starter. It is not about whether it is fifth or not. Joba can throw 150 innings tops, Aceves as well. Hughes should started in triple A and take over for one of them. Who even knows if kennedy can pitch against major league talent? So with three definite pitchers not being able to pitch a whole season and a fourth who is questionable, the yanks wont be able to fill both slots, all injuries and any ineffectiveness. it is too much to ask for those four. They did that same tactic last year and it completely destroyed the rotation and was part of the reason, we ended the season in third place.

  126. bigjf January 17th, 2009 at 1:54 am

    If Sheets’ MRI is really that bad, then I give up on that idea. Garland might not be a bad option though. His numbers aren’t all that pretty, but a #4 starter with his durability? Seems like a fair deal to me.

  127. PRAWN15 January 17th, 2009 at 1:57 am

    Pettite bleeds Yankee pinstripes….but not for a lousy 10 million.

  128. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Bru, I’m not advocatng 16 million for Andy Pettite, but I have gone on the record that they’ll meet somewhere in the middle, 12-13 million, and I’ve been saying this for quite sometime……

  129. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 2:02 am

    Buddy: Ahaha.

    Well, make up your mind. Do you want me with an edge or the sweet and mellow?

    Keep in mind, the more emotional I am, the better writer I am.

  130. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 2:04 am

    “Pettite bleeds Yankee pinstripes….but not for a lousy 10 million.”

    it’s still $10M more than anybody else has offered him. he can settle for the highest offer, or the only bleeding will be the deer he’ll be hunting all summer.

  131. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    Rebecca,

    you gotta mix it up… keep us guessing and intrigued.

  132. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    fyi – AJ has averaged more than 180IP over the past 4 seasons.

    has he seen the DL? sure. it’s becoming rare for a pitcher to not get hurt at all over the course of a few seasons.

    People need to stop assuming he’s going to miss considerable time in 2009. it’s not as likely as it is that he throws 180 innings.

    It’s a common point made by Red Sox fans – AJ is the next Pavano. It’s sheerly denial and/or wishful thinking on their part.

  133. bru January 17th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    dave
    January 17th, 2009 at 1:41 am
    Boston Dave,

    I think the mets could jump in and offer andy more.

    Its not like im the biggest sheets fan in the world or i just love to see the yanks give andy money. I just dont feel comfortable with the rotation as it stands and I am trying to find a solution to the problem. I have been arguing to sign sheets for so long, it gives off the appearance that I have some vested interest in some team signing sheets. Frankly, I could care less about the guy if we sign pettitte. And its not like i think jon garland is god’s gift to man either. I think he is worse than mediocre but as i said desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont want andy to retire so i feel that if all it takes for us to get him is another 2 mil, the yanks should do it. Whats another two mil? if it takes 16, forget him.
    ————————————————————

    what’s another 5 million to arod.jeter,mo,posada & on & on & on.now it is what’s another 2 million to pettitte.

    this philosophy is why the yankees are sitting around 200 million in payroll & light years ahead of everyone else.

    why do the red sox have as good of a team at around 120 million??why does it always cost us more for players?why doesn’t pettitte play for market value,not less???

    the fact is that pettitte is not that good anymore.if he put up better numbers the yankees would pay him more.

    despite oliver perez 100 walks wich is 45 more walks than pettitte perez had a 1.40 whip compared to pettitte’s 1.41 whip but all of perez’s other numbers are so much better it isn’t even funny.

    i would take perez over pettitte any day right now.

    players get on base at the same rate,1.40 whip & 1.41 whip,perez is 27 yrs old.

    pettitte has been paid well by the yankees & always has been on of the top paid pitchers for years.

    he has been paid more than burnett,cc & almost every other pitcher in baseball for years when he was good but not better than a lot of these pitchers.

    now he want’s the same as a lot & more than most & is clearly not as good as many of these pitchers.

    when are the yankees going to get a break after overpaying him for years???

  134. Smarter than you January 17th, 2009 at 2:15 am

    PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Bru, I’m not advocatng 16 million for Andy Pettite, but I have gone on the record that they’ll meet somewhere in the middle, 12-13 million, and I’ve been saying this for quite sometime….
    __

    Keep saying it. It’s not happening.

  135. bru January 17th, 2009 at 2:18 am

    PAT M
    January 17th, 2009 at 2:00 am
    Bru, I’m not advocatng 16 million for Andy Pettite, but I have gone on the record that they’ll meet somewhere in the middle, 12-13 million, and I’ve been saying this for quite sometime……
    ————————————————————

    i hope not.

    if i am cash i would sign someone else or trade for a pitcher.

    pettitte was one or 2 starts away from being a disaster last season.

  136. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 2:21 am

    Smarter than you…..If you’re a Yankee Fan, you better hope it happens……

  137. dave January 17th, 2009 at 2:53 am

    I dont like the mid season pickup idea. Andy should take ten you guys are right. But pitchers and catchers report in less than a month. We need a starter before then. Oli perez for three years is not a good signing. And AJ for five years was not a good signing. i DONT care if he averaged 180 innings over the last four seasons – for a five year contract he should be pitching 200 innings every year, not getting hurt every year. The chance that AJ wont get hurt at all next year is slim. Why? Because in nine full seasons, he has three 200 inning seasons. That does not warrant a five year deal. Dont just agree with the signing because the yanks made it and smart people work for the yanks. The market was too high for AJ because it was based on one season – last season in which he was not all that great anyway.

  138. dave January 17th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    AJ last three seasons – 135, 165 and 221 innings. That is not the guy you want for five years. And yes, he is likely to miss some time next year. If he was a free agent last season, there is no way he gets five years. A contract should not be based on one or two years of performance. It should look at the big picture.

  139. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:00 am

    “i DONT care if he averaged 180 innings over the last four seasons – for a five year contract he should be pitching 200 innings every year,”

    I happen to agree that 5 seasons was too much. however, the yankees decided they wanted AJ and the only way to get him was to match or slightly exceed the next highest offer. they view him as a front of the rotation starter, so they did.

    they have already exceeded the next highest offer for pettitte. by $10M. what more should they have to do?

    “But pitchers and catchers report in less than a month. We need a starter before then.”

    yeah, and a month before they report Andy has but one offer. So he can accept it or retire. Hughes or Aceves starting isn’t exactly a doomsday scenario.

  140. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:01 am

    Andy isnt worth 16 mil anymore but if he turns it around and pitches more like his first half he is certainly worth 12. And if he was in fact pitching through injury and that injury was hurting his performance, he should put up better numbers after a full off season of rest.

  141. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:01 am

    dave,

    funny how you chose to conveniently leave out his 2005 season. well, funny or weak.

  142. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:04 am

    The Yankees believe on Burnett, that he has turned the corner injury wise. He has taken to Doc Halladay’s regimen and has changed his diet and has taken better care of himself.

    There must be truth to it, too, because Toronto badly wanted him back and Atlanta was offering the same amount of money were for him.

  143. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    “because Toronto badly wanted him back and Atlanta was offering the same amount of money were for him.”

    Joey, it’s a concept that has gone over the heads of some people in here. AJ might fail miserably but there were other offers out there in the same ballpark as the Yanks. There were actually other teams who valued AJ close or as much as the Yankees did.

  144. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:10 am

    Hughes and aceves have innings limits as does joba. they only can fill up one spot together. Aceves and kennedy can take the other spot together. But if one of them is ineffective in the majors – our depth shrinks down to nothing. If one of the top three is significantly injured, we dont have anyone to take that top spot.

    The rotation becomes two of the top three and three of joba, hughe, aceves and kennedy. if the injury occurs after one of those guys reaches their innings limit, we need to make an immediate pickup – at that point, we have no leverage and NEED a pitcher so either we can let a team take advantage of our position or trade for or pickup a garbage pitcher like ponson last year. This is basically putting us in the EXACT same position we were in last year. We have a better top three but the kids in the bottom two and essentially no depth with all four taking up two spots.

    I dont know about you but i THINK last year was a lesson to be learned – dont rely on kids with no experience to fill THAT many innings. And we learned it the tough way by ending the season in third place. The yanks should NOT let history repeat itself. And in that way, they should add one more starter. They want to wait around for pettitte until they think he will take the 10 – fine.

    They want to take the risk of sheets, garland or even perez – fine. They want to make a decent trade with nady and prospects – fine. But the last thing they should do, is once again leave ST camp relying on the kids to give them a minimum of 400 innings. THAT WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE and illustrate that the organization did not learn its lesson the first time. They told us in the beginning of the off seaosn they would do anything it took to win – signing another pitcher falls under that category. I hope for our sake, they meant what they said.

  145. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:12 am

    I’m seen some mention Curt Schilling in connection with Burnett. Another guy who had injury issues before turning that corner after age 30.

  146. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:14 am

    I had a strange idea the other day that likely has no chance of happening, but what about Pedro for 1 year?

  147. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:15 am

    boston dave,

    Its funny how you conveniently left out 2004 and 2003 when you made your original four year average argument. Well, funny or weak. The guy has been a mess his whole career. He has had three 200 innings seasons – 3 out of nine. And all of them coming years apart. Im sure people could have said he turned a corner after 2005 but he did not. Why think he turned a corner NOW???

    His last three years are very meaningful by the way – because those are his three seasons in THE AL. why exactly did you choose his last four? Because you realized before that, he was also a disaster. bURNETT wont be pavano but he i doubt he will turn into a great signing either. And burnett is not pavano but the evaluation of burnett is similar to that of pavano as the yanks neglected to look at his career when figuring out how many years to give him. Im sure they looked at it but didnt incorporate it into their decision to bid on him no matter how high any other team chose to go. But just keep believing whatever the yankees do is the right decision – i mean they have only gotten progressively worse every season since 2000 but im sure they do everything right in every decision they made and all the pitfalls have just been bad luck. Right?

  148. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:16 am

    Joey,

    What about sheets for one year? I bet he gives us more than pedro would/

  149. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:17 am

    Maybe burnett turns into schilling. Maybe he turns into pavano. Only time will tell.

  150. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:19 am

    So there were other offers of 4 year for burnett so that somehow absolves cash of blame if burnett stinks or fails. Yea, just like cash was not to blame for pavano because other teams wanted to give him four years. And just like cash is not to blame if he passed on sheets because every other team was passing on him too. The sign of a good GM is not how often he follows the crowd. It is how often he finds the best deal that no other GM could pull off. iF BURNETT fails it falls solely on cash’s shoulders.

  151. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:21 am

    Sheets is not an option.

    His medical reports scared the Yankees away.

    It appears to have scared away most teams.

  152. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:23 am

    Sheets is an option – he is a free agent so he is an option. The sign of the best GM isnt a game of follow the leader. Who cares about the other clubs? The yanks can make their own decisions. The brewers and Rangers have no shyed away. No team knows sheets like the brewers.

    How many teams are interested in pedro? It appears clubs have shyed away from him. And when was the last time he showed he can actually pitch? Sheets started the nL all star game last year. Pedro was horrendous last year. Why take a flyer on him and not sheets?

  153. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:23 am

    You have to give Burnett a chance.

    He pitches lights out against Boston and is the type of pitcher that can win a playoff game 1-0. He’s got the type of stuff.

    That’s why the Yankees, along with the Blue Jays, Braves, and to a lesser extent the Red Sox, sought after him.

  154. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:24 am

    dave,

    I know it’s late but you are misunderstanding simple concepts/posts left and right. I think it’s time for some sleep. You are routinely missing points. I guess it’s possible you’re just reading them too fast but it’s hard to respond to your posts when you can’t understand what others are saying.

  155. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:26 am

    Sheets isn’t an option because the Yankees were in on Sheets and backed off once they got his medical reports. They are no longer interested.

    Another question….would you rather have had Burnett for 5/80 or Lowe at the 4/60 he got?

  156. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:27 am

    you didnt even tell me what i missed in your post? I am reading pretty fast but i am getting the concepts i would think. What am I not getting?

  157. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:28 am

    I also never said Pedro was even a consideration.

    Its just an idea I had.

  158. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    p.s. I used 4 years with Burnett bc of his tommy john surgery.

    We can agree to disagree on this and everything else. It’s frustrating trying to converse with you bc you either have very poor reading comprehension or are just not that bright.

    Best of luck trying to convince people of your arguments.

  159. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    I would not want burnett for five years or lowe for four. I thought Burnett for three was the highest the yanks should go. Lowe did not deserve money from the yanks but two years at most. He would not have been good in the al EAST.

    The yanks backed off sheets for 2 years and 30 mil. I would think they would regain interest for 1 year and less than 10 mil guaranteed.

    I will give burnett a chance. I am a yankee fan so of course, i want him to succeed. i JUST didnt like the signing because i dont blindly agree with everything the yankees do. I try to have my own opinions despite the fact that the organization knows more than i do. They have been wrong a good amount so of course, i can disagree with the signing.

  160. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:35 am

    Boston Dave,

    Perhaps it is frustrating conversing because you seem to disagree with me on every point that I make. it is almost mind boggling that we could both be fans of the same team and yet, disagree on every single topic that we discuss. That is why it is frustrating to me. I wouldnt think it is that i am not that bright because i am going to be a doctor so perhaps, you should rethink that one. I am reading your posts albeit, fast but i thought i got it all or at least the highlights. i USED three years because it was his AL east experience and you used four because it was after he had tommy john. What is wrong with either of those? I just find it interesting that he missed significant time two of the four years after he had tommy john as well which seemingly says he is still injury prone even after the surgery as he was also before.

  161. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:37 am

    Pedro would probably be a waste of money and a roster spot. If he is taking a minor league contract than it is worth a shot to see what he can do. But some team could offer him a major league deal in which case i would think the yanks are out. 40 man rOSTER SPOTS are precious on this club.

  162. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:38 am

    I don’t agree with every move the Yankees make, either, but this one doesn’t bother me.

    The guy is in his prime, proven in the AL East, has top notch stuff, and wanted to come here.

    The Yankees brass wanted him, the players wanted him, his former team wanted him back, and the Braves wanted him enough to offer the same 5/80 I did.

    I can see why his sketchy history scares people, but I don’t see Carl Pavano or Jaret Wright here. Even a 40 year old Randy Johnson or well past his prime Kevin Brown. You just knew those guys were going to be disasters because they had never done it in NY or in the AL East. They couldn’t handle, either. Burnett has already met those hurdles.

    The guy;s stuff alone is enough to gamble on.

  163. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:38 am

    Im sure i will have more luck agreeing with someone else on at least one topic when we are both fans of the same team.

  164. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:42 am

    I dont see why ppl are so ready to say burnett for five years was a great signing but dont even want to take a flyer on sheets. It boggles my mind really. If sheets costs us 5 mil, what exactly is the game for the yanks here? They certainly have the money. What else are they losing? If someone agrees with the burnett deal, one would think that sheets for five mil would be a no brainer. tHEY WOULD automatically say yes. Esp considering both of them have amazing stuff and a very precarious history. But it seems that people are all too ready to agree with what the yanks have done and all too ready to dismiss what the yanks have not. i DIDNT MEAN you agree with everything the yanks do – that was in reference to boston dave who seemingly agrees with every single thing.

  165. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:43 am

    Like Peter said in one of his posts the other day, the Yankees 1-4 is the best in baseball, but they lack that depth teams like the Red Sox have.

    I still think Hughes will be very, very good, but there are innings limits to him. They have guys who can give innings in Aceves, Kennedy, Coke, Johnson, but no real high reward/low risk guys on the team. If just one of Penny or Smoltz comes through Boston will be tough.

    We need to get a Lieber type. Colon would have been perfect. Pedro or Paul Byrd could work.

  166. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:43 am

    i meant to write what exactly is the gamble here?

  167. Joey January 17th, 2009 at 3:45 am

    How does it boggles your mind? Toronto, Atlanta, and Boston wanted Burnett. Have you heard a peep from any of them on Sheets? There’s your answer.

    Sheets has serious issues with his arm, it’s so bad no one wants to gamble on him.

    That’s saying a lot with pitching being so scarce in baseball.

  168. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:45 am

    I love the personal assaults when someone disagrees with me – did you see that last post by boston dave. He thinks because i dont agree with anything he says that I am not intelligent enough or dont read well. Ohh how immature can someone be to have to insult someone instead of just realizing that they hold a different view point?

  169. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:50 am

    How can sheets arm be THAT bad when he threw 200 innings last year and came out with such a minor injury in september? That is what doesnt make sense to me. And the fact that the brewers still want to re-sign him – that is a telling sign that they think he will be okay next year. And it isnt just about his health as much as his stuff and his price. His stuff is some of the best in baseball. And because very few teams and no high market teams want him his price is incredibly low. I mean with a guy with that stuff and such a low price the yanks really have nothing to lose by taking a gamble. You said you want more high reward guys – that is sheets. And there are no low risk/high reward. Both smoltz and penny are more like high risk/high reward. And the guys you mentioned are all low reward guys – they would all most likely be terrible in the AL east even if healthy. Pedro even if he stays healthy will be horrible as would leiber at this point. I think we need a guy that is high risk but high reward. Smoltz is definitely one of those. Sheets is also.

  170. dave January 17th, 2009 at 3:54 am

    It boggles my mind because AJ has risk and is somehow worth 5 years and 82 mil and sheets has more risk and isnt even worth 1 year and less than 10 mil? I dont see how that is possible unless his arm was cut off by a hack saw. There is no report that he wont start ST and no report about any surgery. There was no report that he got into some accident during the off season and he went onto the dl for a minor injury. He has his share of chronic problems but if the problems they discuss is chronic – then, that means he pitched through the injuries last season and put up great numbers with the injury. If not, when did he get the injury?? If it was this off season, we would have heard about it. no?

  171. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? January 17th, 2009 at 5:47 am

    i offer my word of the day – prolix.

  172. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 7:06 am

    guest blogger call in sick?

  173. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 7:21 am

    wow, that dave is a wordy guy and all to say that he bases sheet’s value on what other pitchers are being paid, no matter whether sheets is healthy enough to throw even i single pitch.

    he made the same argument for several hours (at novella lengh) the other day too.

    so for today i propose a different word of the day: brevity

  174. Mike January 17th, 2009 at 7:25 am

    I don’t see a problem by giving him a short term deal with incentives .

  175. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 7:34 am

    well, from what i understand, 10 teams have looked at his medicals and none of them have made an offer. the mets are now talking about having interest but havent seen his medicals yet.

    if teams thought they could get anything from sheets, he would already have offers. im sure he’s been approached about his interest in a shorter term or incentive laden contract but as of now, no offers from anybody who’s seen his medical records indicates hes not worth it.

  176. Fran January 17th, 2009 at 8:19 am

    Before the Yankees signed CC and AJ, they were also talking with Sheets. I remember Girardi talking about him in the newspapers saying what a great pitcher Sheets is. The Yanks never made an offer after checking on his medical records, nor has any other team.

  177. RonH January 17th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    With the weather here in the NE, I’m wondering if the guest blog got frozen on its way to our PCs after Pete posted it.

  178. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am

    Article on Nady/Swisher trade talks.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....f=baseball

    The Yankees might be able to fill their needs for a #4 starter, Cf’er, good defensive and hitting super utility player through trading Nady or Swisher. My preference is Nady, for the reasons discussed on this blog. Looking at the interested teams in this article, I came up with some players that could be fits.

    Atlanta: Has Martin Prado to fit super utility role. Has Jordan Shafer and Gorkys Hernandez for CF/ corner OF in the future. Has Kelly Johnson, but he would be another corner OF’er/2nd baseman. Apparently Yankees asking too much for Nady with the Braves.

    Washington: Has Elijah Dukes and Lastings Milledge, but both suited best for corner position. Has lefty Scott Olsen, obtained cheaply from the Marlins-could he be available?

    San Francisco: Has one year rental Randy Winn, but can he play CF now? Has lefty Jonathen Sanchez possibly available. Sabean however quoted as saying he doesn’t want a one year rental in Nady.

    Cinncinnati: Has Jeff Keppinger, but Martin Prado better. Don’t see Aaron Harang made available in a straight swap and don’t want Bronson Arroyo. Forget about getting Jay Bruce. Micah Owings? Can he pitch, or only pinch hit????

  179. Mark in Tampa January 17th, 2009 at 9:00 am

    At this point, Sheets could probably be had for 5-7M per year for two years, plus incentives. The fact that nobody has made even that type of offer(publicly) for one of the best arms in baseball when healthy, should say all that needs to be said about his shoulder. For that type of money, he would not be that costly of a risk for a team like the Yankees, so they must believe that ANY money spent on Sheets is money down a black hole.

  180. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 9:00 am

    No, the guest blogger has already posted, you just don’t see it.
    It’s a compilation of the list of players one poster or another has not suggested we trade for this winter.

  181. Mark in Tampa January 17th, 2009 at 9:01 am

    As for Garland, the Yankees internal options are better than what he would provide in the AL East.

  182. ellen January 17th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Holy cow – I hope some team signs Sheets soon, so these “creative” posts stop. Sheets’ shoulder is a disaster; the Yankees know this; the other teams know this (hence, no offers). Incentives don’t help.

  183. Dano January 17th, 2009 at 9:07 am

    Mike
    “I don’t see a problem by giving him a short term deal with incentives”

    Can we give dave such an arrangement? Something like a word-limited deal. Geez dave, your passion for the yanks is evident, but you are just repeating yourself over and over again.

  184. bodhisattva January 17th, 2009 at 9:09 am

    Another young pitcher to throw on the depth pile for the No.5 spot is Chris Garcia. He can give us some innings, along with the Aceves-Hughes-Kennedy group, and has front-end stuff. As long as he’s healthy, he should be in the mix. He’s quite a pitcher.

  185. Doreen January 17th, 2009 at 9:21 am

    Wow – glad I didn’t stay tuned for the Ben Sheets reruns last night. :)

  186. Mark in Tampa January 17th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Any interest there in Jet-land for Jon Gruden? If so, beware!

  187. Bob Mac January 17th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    The difference between Burnett and Sheets is that both have an injury history but Sheets, according to reports, is currently injured. Perhaps, his condition did not change since the season ended, but teams did not have access to his medical reports until the off-season.
    I am all for Joba as a starter, but if Mo is not ready who else would close? This is another reason to sign Pettitte.

  188. pat January 17th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Is there an AL ShortStop conspiracy? I’m more of a coincidence theorist than a conspiracy theorist myself. This is a joke (at least I think it is?) so nobody put out a hit on Travis. :smile:

    http://bmcsportsblog.blogspot......jeter.html

  189. Guiseppe Franco January 17th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Another young pitcher to throw on the depth pile for the No.5 spot is Chris Garcia. He can give us some innings, along with the Aceves-Hughes-Kennedy group, and has front-end stuff. As long as he’s healthy, he should be in the mix. He’s quite a pitcher.

    ———————

    How is Garcia supposed to help the Yankee rotation this season when he’s pitched a grand total of 5 innings above Class-A ball?

    He’s also had major struggles staying healthy. It would be a major step forward if he got a whiff of Triple-A ball this season.

    The majors? No way.

  190. Chambliss January 17th, 2009 at 10:05 am

    If I am going to take a chance on a 5th stater, I go for the high risk/high reward option, and that means Sheets. Look at what the Red Sox did with Smoltz. The guy is 42 and coming off shoulder surgery.

    I understand that the more likely outcome with signing Sheets is that he ends up on the 60 day DL, but this is your 5th starter, not your front of the rotation guy. If he fails, you have backups in the organization in Hughes and Aceves, and if neither pans out and you want an innings eater, you go out a get a Paul Byrd type of guy in June.

    The Yankees are in “go for it” mode with the other deals that they have made this offseason. If they can get Sheets for $5 mil with big incentives for innings pitched, they should go for it.

    As an aside, “irregardless” is one of my favorite words that do not exist…

  191. Gary January 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    At one point there were rumors of Cashman considering Randy Wolf. A one year deal with a team option of a 2nd year isn’t the worse idea and certainly better than Sheets, Garland, or Freddy Garcia.
    Hughes to AAA to get ready and Aceves as the long relief man if he shows he can handle the role in spring training.
    Andy Pettitte coming to his senses can change some things.

    http://houston.astros.mlb.com/....._id=150116

  192. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    People, It’s not the 5th starter in question, it’s the 4th starter which is significantly different in terms of innings and starts…..Joba and his 160 innings ( or less ) is the # 5 starter…..

  193. Guiseppe Franco January 17th, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Exactly, Pat.

    Everyone keeps saying the Yanks need a fifth starter but that’s not true. They need a FOURTH starter.

    The fifth starter is going to be the one skipped most most and Joba is that guy because of his innings cap.

    So what happens if Phil Hughes becomes the fourth starter next season with his injury history and innings cap of his own?

    It means the Yanks are in big trouble if someone like Burnett goes down and they don’t have Pettitte in that rotation.

    I agree with you, they will eventually work something out with Pettitte. To spend that much money this offseason and leave that trap door open for the last slot in the rotation is just a disaster waiting to happen.

  194. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    i saw wolf pitch in h.s. and at pepperdine when i lived in the valley. id be ok with him depending on the price, but im a little biased.

  195. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    in case you’ve never seen it, here’s the field at pepperdine:

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/20.....ld-new.jpg

    yes, thats the pacific, its in malibu….

  196. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Mr. Franco, You see the concern and understand the situation….Last night I wrote that they must make the playoffs this season at any cost ( within reason of course )….They are going to gross at least 500 grand in ticket reciepts more than they did last season per game…..What is percieved as Pettite’s value on the open market is one thing to gauge, but his value to the Yanks and their dire need to fill the # 4 slot is even more than the reflected market value…..

  197. Rob NY January 17th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Dave– I voted for Ben Sheets but it was attached to armour and jeeps for the troops, what was I supposed to do? :P 8)

  198. Rob NY January 17th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    It probably wouldn’t be in Sheets’ best interest to release the full extent to whatever shoulder and/or elbow damage he has. He isn’t by any duty to make sure we have all the info, but the people who do aren’t signing him. Burnett is NOT comparable to Sheets because one has had surgery to repair problems while the other has a littany of injuries that may or may not require surgery.

    IMO give sheets an incentive laden innings based contract that can get him to 10M if he goes 200 ip. If he doesn’t pitch? Minimum wage of 400k for him and a Tampa rehab assignment. Decent for both sides.

  199. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    My son played three years for Pepperdine…..They actually have a class credited course in surfing as well as a surfing team, which is not unusual for Southern California…..I became baseball friends with Kirk Russell who was a big supporter of the baseball program…..Pamela Anderson also was a big fan as well…..Very top heavy woman, enough said…..

  200. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 10:46 am

    my brother had a 74 fiat spider 124 convertable, this was back in like 85. a fine italian machine, wood and leather interior. i had a 69 datsun 510 which was a (tiny at the time) box on wheels. his was a nice ride on a sunny day when it worked, but at least 70% of the time, i had to drive him to work in the datsun b/c the fiat needed another part or the heater didnt work or something.

    sheets is my brother’s fiat. we’ve got ferari’s and porches, now all we need is a datsun.

  201. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    not the only top heavy woman in malibu…

  202. Brad Pitts better=looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    definitely not, ham. but how many of those women are using performance enhancing substances of some kind? (not that i mind…)
    ever see LA story with Steve Martin? He has that one scene where he is feeling up that young girl he was dating and said they felt funny? She said, “yeah, they’re real.”

  203. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Ham Fighters…..Top heavy is part of the So Cal landscape…..I live in Newport Beach and all I can say wow…And I’ve been here for over 30 years…..It never gets old…..

  204. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    look who i found:
    http://graphics.cstv.com/graph.....erdine.jpg

  205. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    thats a much better picture of the stadium at pepperdine than the first one, dont u think.

  206. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    She’s a Peperdine Wave Alum…..By the way, your analogy of the Fiat and the Datsun was great by the way…..A Chevy Malibu may be consistant with todays dialoge….

  207. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Dunno if you guys saw this, but Don Zimmer had a minor stroke last night:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-260325

  208. Vrsce January 17th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Ham Fighters

    is that Pete in a wig and sunglasses?

  209. Sean Serritella January 17th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    No Ham Fighters. I find Pam Anderson very unattractive. Find me a good picture of Christina Hendricks and I’ll forgive you.

  210. atlas January 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    definitely not, ham. but how many of those women are using performance enhancing substances of some kind? (not that i mind…)

    Believe it or not, here’s one guy who’s turned off by plastic boobs

  211. Sean Serritella January 17th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Yes atlas. I do not like the plastic boobs. I like all natural.

  212. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    (is all natural)

  213. Sean Serritella January 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Who is, “is?”

  214. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    is = me.

  215. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    somehow all us posters prolly figured that, rebecca! u seem pretty genuine to me.

  216. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am

    esh from MLB.com Rumors-R-Us. Enjoy. Hopefully, it starts a little more fresh discussion. Let’s get it all talked out before Dave wakes up.

    “Yankees Still Fielding Calls on Swisher, Nady
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 17 at 10:21am CST]
    According to Tyler Kepner of the New York Times, Brian Cashman’s spending lots of time talking with other clubs about Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady. Cashman’s open to moving either player, but he says he won’t make a deal for the sake of making one: “we’re not going to do anything unless there’s a reason to do it.”

    Cashman also said most reports about trade discussions have been accurate. The Braves, Nationals and Reds are among the teams who have reportedly had interest in Swisher and Nady.

    The Yankees like Johnny Damon’s production and they’re not shopping him or Hideki Matsui.

    Kepner suggests the Yankees should “hold on to Swisher and dangle Nady” for a number of reasons. Swisher’s two years younger and he’s under contract for $21MM over the next three years. Nady, a Scott Boras client, will be a free agent after the 2009 season.”

  217. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    CORRECTION: ***Fresh*** from MLB.com Rumors-R-Us

  218. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    don’t u get arrested for dangling your nady?

  219. Sean Serritella January 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    Interesting Rebecca…

  220. Sean Serritella January 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    I don’t know, I like Nady better than Swisher.

  221. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    not to mention holding on to your swisher?

  222. Tarheelyank January 17th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Brad- lets not discuss AROD

  223. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Brad Pitts better-looking brother
    January 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am
    don’t u get arrested for dangling your nady?

    ————————————————————

    No more illegal than dangling your participle.

  224. pat January 17th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Fiat reference made me smile. Mine was a red convertible and my dad used to say that FIAT was Italian for Fix It Again Tony.

    Nice analogy as well. My dad encouraged the purchase of a reliable new Honda Civic but I opted for the used Fiat because it was a fun ride right up until the bottom rusted and fell out.

  225. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    LOL Tarheel!
    I’m looking for my participle as we speak, GB… lol.

  226. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 11:39 am

    From my 8:49 post

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....allArticle on Nady/Swisher trade talks.

    The Yankees might be able to fill their needs for a #4 starter, Cf’er, good defensive and hitting super utility player through trading Nady or Swisher. My preference is Nady, for the reasons discussed on this blog. Looking at the interested teams in this article, I came up with some players that could be fits.

    Atlanta: Has Martin Prado to fit super utility role. Has Jordan Shafer and Gorkys Hernandez for CF/ corner OF in the future. Has Kelly Johnson, but he would be another corner OF’er/2nd baseman. Apparently Yankees asking too much for Nady with the Braves.

    Washington: Has Elijah Dukes and Lastings Milledge, but both suited best for corner position. Has lefty Scott Olsen, obtained cheaply from the Marlins-could he be available?

    San Francisco: Has one year rental Randy Winn, but can he play CF now? Has lefty Jonathen Sanchez possibly available. Sabean however quoted as saying he doesn’t want a one year rental in Nady.

    Cinncinnati: Has Jeff Keppinger, but Martin Prado better. Don’t see Aaron Harang made available in a straight swap and don’t want Bronson Arroyo. Forget about getting Jay Bruce. Micah Owings? Can he pitch, or only pinch hit????

  227. Rob NY January 17th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Label me in the Swisher camp. I like his OBP and power better than Nady who until last year was a platoon player, and his numbers backed that up. The AL East figured him out pretty soon after his arrival. Plus we need OF for next year which swish could help with. Send Nady back to the Mets so I can at least watch him on SNY if I miss his long swing or big strikeouts.

  228. Bobby January 17th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Andy Pettitte !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  229. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 17th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Someone thought that it’d be possible to get Jay Bruce for Xavier Nady?

    What the hell are they smoking and where can I get some?

  230. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Someone thought that it’d be possible to get Jay Bruce for Xavier Nady?

    What the hell are they smoking and where can I get some?

    No, you jumped to conclusions. It was forget Jay Bruce. Would have to trade away the farm for a chance on him.

  231. gayle January 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Rebecca I had actually heard on XM this AM that today his his birthday and he had the stroke sometime afer Christmas

  232. Brad Pitts better-looking brother January 17th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Rebecca
    did someone suggest jay bruce? that completes the set!
    it just about covers every player on every major-league and AAA roster that one poster or another has said we should get this winter.

  233. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    i loved the fiat, great date car, my brother’s was blue. but he definitly spent more time under it than in it.

    stay away from dukes, he’s still a mess:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/

  234. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Swisher is a keepa….I hope they keep both, sign Pettite and go to camp as is….Right handed bat off the bench and an upgraded utility player is needed….Maybe that’s why they signed Berrola with the hope that he can fill that role….He very well maybe the big quiet pickup of the offseason…..

  235. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Check that Berroa….

  236. Fran January 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    GB&,

    Surprised that Cashman admitted so much about trade talks. Ususally he doesn’t admit anything about players or teams until a trade or signing is actually completed.

  237. Fran January 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Sorry – Should be GB7 on above post

  238. bardos January 17th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    another curious note: what makes nady the expendable one is his choice of agent. strange to factor in a player’s agent. definitely a valid point, but it’s so 21st centuryish…

  239. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Boston Dave
    January 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am
    “I know I’ll get crap for it but if Sheets is out there in 3 more weeks the Yankees WILL make a play for him no matter what his physical says.”
    Thank God the Yankees aren’t as foolish as this post.
    no matter what his medicals say? really?
    ————————
    Yes, Boston Dave, no matter what his physical says. In 3 weeks if Pettitte’s not coming back we’ll be desperate and the prices will have plummeted. On a 1 year deal Ben Sheets is well worth the chance for a 4th RD draft pick and Pettitte money. Obviously, you’d look at the medical records again to see what you’re dealing with but Sheets is a very good pitcher and to take a chance on him would cost nothing but money for the Yankees. If he gets hurt, at least we got some innings out of him. 1 year deal? Hell yeah I sign him, period.

  240. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Fran
    January 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am
    Sorry – Should be GB7 on above post

    ————————————————————

    No problem, Fran. I’ve been called worse things than “&” on this board.

  241. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    yeah, kepner got alot out of cash there, good work tyler! next time post here before you waste your talent on that little rag you work for….

  242. PAT M January 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    If we’ve learned anythong from the past seasons dating back to 05, is that pitching depth is vital….Hughes and to a lesser extent Kennedy shoud not be viewed as options until sometime in June & better yet July….I don’t ever expect the injuries that plagued the 07 staff, but there will be missed starts and the club must be ready to plug them…Hughes, Kennedy need to stay as # 6 & 7 on the depth chart…..

  243. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    “Surprised that Cashman admitted so much about trade talks. Ususally he doesn’t admit anything about players or teams until a trade or signing is actually completed.”

    I was surprised by that as well. I wonder if that means those deals have no chance of happening?… Maybe Ca$h is going to let his hair down, so to speak, and not hide as much anymore?… Who knows? Maybe it was a momentary laps in judgement?… Maybe he’s stoking the fire about Swisher/Nady trades because he has something different going on and he’s using the distraction to work in peace?… All I know is i was very shocked to see a comment like that come directly out of the mouth of Yankee Brass (excuse Hank) and especially because it came from Ca$h.

  244. Betsy January 17th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

    I apologize if this was already posted…..

    I like Cash’s quote about not trading either unless a deal makes sense. I don’t get why having depth is a bad thing and why it’s so necessary to trade either of these guys. That said, I love what I’ve been hearing about Swisher and I hope the Yankees hold onto him (I’ve read that they really like him, too…..)

  245. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    I’d like to see the Yanks investigate the rumors that Rich Hill of the Cubs is on the block. I wouldn’t do a Nady or a Kennedy deal, but, maybe a relief pitcher like Ramirez or Veras and Cabrera for Hill and Pie. They’re going to lose them on the waiver wires if they don’t trade them anyway.

  246. Rob NY January 17th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    Giantthinker I would tend to go with the idea that ca$h has another coal in the fire if he’s so loose lipped about these other trade options. He is a ninja afterall, master of diception. And I quote “we don’t live in a world where we could get those two guys, that’s fantasy land.” if he’s saying it, don’t believe it.

  247. Betsy January 17th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    My thoughts on Andy:

    I don’t think the Yankees should compromise one bit off of $10 million. His $16 million demand is absolutely ludicrous (and way more than he could ever expect to get from any team), but he asks for that knowing that he may get $12-13 million, which is really what he’s fine with (that he doesn’t really need the $16 million). It’s like an atty asking for $50 million in damages from jury – he knows he has no prayer of getting that amount, but he hopes that the jury will give him a compromise figure of $25 million. If the atty asked for the $25 million straight out, there’s a good chance the jury would see that as being too high and award a much lower amount.

    Andy is the best option, but not the only option.

  248. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    i think the yankees have moved on from andy. its not in cash’s interest to say ‘adios, we’re not signing you’ b/c it makes them look desparate in other negotiations, but unless andy comes back to them i think its over for pettitte in pinstripes.

  249. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Mel Stottlemyre has been added to Team USA as the bullpen coach. Congrats to one of the best Yankee pitchers, ever…and a damned fine pitching coach.

  250. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    GB7- not GB& or GB#@%#
    “I’d like to see the Yanks investigate the rumors that Rich Hill of the Cubs is on the block. I wouldn’t do a Nady or a Kennedy deal, but, maybe a relief pitcher like Ramirez or Veras and Cabrera for Hill and Pie. They’re going to lose them on the waiver wires if they don’t trade them anyway.”

    What have you heard about Rich Hill’s availability?
    As blogged before I think he’d be a great lefty pickup, if we can get him to locate his pitches again.

    Felix Pie is another lefty CF’er who hits even worse against lefty pitchers than Cabrera or Gardner. Any chance at Reed Johnson in an expanded deal, as Fukudome might be moved to center. Also Cubs would have no need for Nady or Swisher, so as you stated above, Cubs will probably want some relief help.

  251. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    PAT M-Exactly. If we can get a few minor league signings of a few pitchers left out there it would help too. Depth is very important. I’m a big believer that we need to keep Hughes in AAA to start the season and bring in a 5th starter. I hoped it would be Pettitte but he’s disappointed me. I wanted Sheets over Burnett but we signed AJ. Now we need to see who we can sign out there for 1 year deals and minor league deals. I’d be for giving Sidney Ponson a minor league deal and give him a shot to compete for the #5. He earned that last season, he really overachieved. I don’t know who they will end up bringing in but they need to bring someone in to take some innings. We’d really like an innings eater but I really think even if its a guy like Sheets and he gets hurt half way through the season at least we got those innings from him and by the Hughes can be called up. Clearly we need someone. The math just doesn’t add up. If they’d stop babying the crap out of their young pitchers and Joba and Hughes could just pitch the entire season we wouldn’t need anybody besides minor leaguers incase of injury. Unfortunately, we NYers aren’t patient and we’re taking it slow with our pitchers so we NEED to bring someone else in to fill out the rotation.

  252. m January 17th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    dave,

    I’ve got no problem with you and your fervent support of Ben Sheets.

    I’ve got no problem with your long posts (thanks for breaking up the text).

    But, you’re really fixated on AJ. Is it necessary to keep telling us, over and over again, that he has a history of injuries? We know that! If we didn’t know it before, we know it now.

    Anyway, he’s a Yankee now and I would think that a Yankee fan would want the best possible season for AJ. We should all, like Doreen, pray for AJ every night. But privately, not in on the LoHud. :)

  253. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Betsy-Great stuff on Andy. Thumbs up.

  254. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    ““I know I’ll get crap for it but if Sheets is out there in 3 more weeks the Yankees WILL make a play for him no matter what his physical says.””

    giantthinker,

    I don’t know how you can say that with such certainty without knowing what his medicals look like. What if they really are as bad as the reports say? Sign him anyway??

    If there is even a 50% chance that Sheets could go close to a full season, I’d love to have him in pinstripes. It just doesn’t appear that the Yankees feel he can do that.

  255. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    GreenBeret7
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
    “Mel Stottlemyre has been added to Team USA as the bullpen coach. Congrats to one of the best Yankee pitchers, ever…and a damned fine pitching coach.”

    Ditto for Stotts.

    The first full year Al Downing came up to start for the Yankees was 1963-another favorite of mine. Stats for 1963:
    13-5; 10 complete games with 4 shutouts; 176 IP; only 114 hits and 7 homers; 171 SO; and an ERA of 2.56

  256. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    “If they’d stop babying the crap out of their young pitchers and Joba and Hughes could just pitch the entire season we wouldn’t need anybody besides minor leaguers incase of injury. Unfortunately, we NYers aren’t patient and we’re taking it slow with our pitchers so we NEED to bring someone else in to fill out the rotation.”

    I think there are some inconsistencies here.

  257. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    m-I will pray for AJ every day he’s on the Yankees. Cant deny his stuff. If he stays healthy, if, his diving curve and tailing fast balls will be a pleasure to watch.

  258. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “He thinks because i dont agree with anything he says that I am not intelligent enough or dont read well.”

    dave, I said we should agree to disagree several times. The problem I had was that you were completely misunderstanding my points and then arguing with me about something I never said.

    IRregardless, let’s leave it alone.

  259. m January 17th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    gianthinker,

    I will, too. Hughes is the other one in my thoughts.

    And I’m not even religous!

  260. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Yankee Trader
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
    GB7- not GB& or GB#@%#
    “I’d like to see the Yanks investigate the rumors that Rich Hill of the Cubs is on the block. I wouldn’t do a Nady or a Kennedy deal, but, maybe a relief pitcher like Ramirez or Veras and Cabrera for Hill and Pie. They’re going to lose them on the waiver wires if they don’t trade them anyway.”

    What have you heard about Rich Hill’s availability?
    As blogged before I think he’d be a great lefty pickup, if we can get him to locate his pitches again.

    Felix Pie is another lefty CF’er who hits even worse against lefty pitchers than Cabrera or Gardner. Any chance at Reed Johnson in an expanded deal, as Fukudome might be moved to center. Also Cubs would have no need for Nady or Swisher, so as you stated above, Cubs will probably want some relief help.

    ————————————————————

    LMAO. After 36 years in the military and my time as a kid, I learned to answer to just about anything. Both Hill and Pie are out of options, and Piniella’s just about finished with them, as well as Fukedome. I think that Sweet Lou is hoping Fukeome gets lost in the airport terminal for a few years.

    There’s really no room for Hill and Chcago is looking for another starter on the FA market. He has a ton of talent, so trading a relief pitcher, which Chicago needs makes sense. Let Hill work ut his issues during spring training and open in the pen. NYY could hide him there, and, he can’t be any worse than Farnsworth, Hawkins and Ramirez. He could pitch in blowouts and depending on how he does, grab a spot start.

    Pie is also out of options and no worse than Cabrera, but, a lot of upside if he can figure it out. He’s always talked about as a 5 tool player, but, he’s not apower hitter….more like a 12-15 homer guy. Young (only 23 years old), good glove, great arm, great speed….the Cubs just rushed him two years ago because they needed center fielder. He’s the real gamble in the deal.

  261. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Starting pitchers
    Kris Benson (33)
    Paul Byrd (38) – Type B, offered arb
    Roger Clemens (46)
    Josh Fogg (32)
    Freddy Garcia (33)
    Jon Garland (29) – Type B, offered arb
    Tom Glavine (43)
    Charlie Haeger (25)
    Livan Hernandez (34)
    Orlando Hernandez (43)
    Chuck James (27)
    Jason Jennings (30)
    Jon Lieber (39)
    Braden Looper (34) – Type B, not offered arb
    Rodrigo Lopez (33)
    Pedro Martinez (37)
    Mark Mulder (31)
    John Parrish (31)
    Odalis Perez (32)
    Oliver Perez (27) – Type A, offered arb
    Andy Pettitte (37) – Type A, not offered arb
    Sidney Ponson (32)
    Kenny Rogers (44)
    Curt Schilling (42)
    Ben Sheets (30) – Type A, offered arb
    Kip Wells (32)
    Randy Wolf (32) – Type B, not offered arb

    Not much to choose from with these remaining free agent starters. Of these, other than Pettitte, which ones would you want that is NOT coming off a current injury and could be had for a one, at most, two year contract.

  262. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Betsy – At this point I don’t even know if Andy is on their radar, though the good thing about the Yankees (in my estimation) is that they are close to the vest and don’t feel the need to blither all of their negotiations and strategies to the “entitled”. (That would be the Yankee writer and fans who feel they have the right to privileged information and should be party to every word and every phone call made by the Yankees.)

    I have to seriously wonder how much his real estate is worth at this moment with the Clemens grand jury looming large. Who knows if Andy is reeling so much at this moment from the next chapter in this debacle that he either will beg to play for the team or decide he doesn’t have the head for another season.

    I guess we’ll all find out when we do.

  263. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Boston Dave-Dude, no inconsistencies at all. Joba can’t start the entire season because of a pitch count. Babying. Hughes cant start the entire season because of pitch count. Babying. They don’t want to go over a certain count to prevent injury and thats fine but its still babying. If they weren’t doing that then Hughes would be our #5 and we wouldn’t be talking about anybody besides maybe a minor league signing or two that they’d send to AAA incase someone in the rotation got hurt. Now we’re talking about someone who can take those innings and allow Hughes to be in the minors. There’s no inconsistencies there its just what they are doing if we agree with them or not. I wish they’d just let them pitch but since they wont we need to bring someone else in. We cant expect to patch two rotation spots with Joba, Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy, etc. At this point we should be looking into pitchers out on the market who would take 1 year deals to fill this spot.

  264. Betsy January 17th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Yes, I’m surprised that Cash is being so open about Nady and Swisher – I like his normal style better. I sort of feel bad for the players who have to read that they are on the block…….Keep Swisher over Nady, but keep both of them. Depth is good.

  265. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    somebody mentioned it above, i wonder what randy wolf is looking for. i was suprised to see he went 190 IP last year, seems like he’s been injured since 2003.

    he made $8M in 2007 and blew out his arm in july. last year he made $4.75M and started 33 games.

    his #’s last year for houston compare closely to pettitte’s last season in houston.

    wolf 2008: 12-12 4.30 1.38 whip
    pettitte 2006: 14-13 4.20 1.44 whip

  266. ANSKY January 17th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Ham Fighter what you say about Fiat is so true. Fiats were the Ben Sheets of cars. I could definitely imagine your bro being underneath it quite often.

    I had a Triumph Spitfire when I was in college. Nice fun little car, definitely ‘girl catcher’ thats for sure. I never drove it in the winter but not because I was preserving it … if the temperature was below about 40 degrees it simply wouldn’t start. Beyond that, it was the Carl Pavano of cars in terms of reliability. It needed its engine rebuilt at about 35K miles, even though I did the oil changes religiously every 3K and I rarely very drove it any other way than conservatively.

  267. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    *My predictions – you read it here first*

    1. Burnett is going to be a phenomenal pitcher for the Yanks. Injuries will not be a worry.

    2. Burnett, Wang, CC and Joba will overwhelm the opposition. Wang and Joba will be able to healthily realize their promise because the rotation will not depend upon them for extraordinary innings and they won’t have to walk off the mound minus their arms.

    3. The bullpen will also be great in part due to being able to be used in a reasonable fashion due to workhorse pitchers at the top of the rotation.

    4. Yankees will win #27 in 2009 (but we already knew that!)

  268. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    giantthinker,

    “Unfortunately, we NYers aren’t patient and we’re taking it slow with our pitchers”

    so how is taking it slow not being patient?

    your argument seemed to me that you thought the Yankees should be patient by rushing the young guys to the majors to throw full 200IP seasons.

    I also happen to disagree with you that Hughes won’t be the #5 starter this season because of “babying”. If anything, they rushed him to the majors too quickly, or his injuries might have something to do with it.

  269. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    Yankee Trader
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
    GreenBeret7
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
    “Mel Stottlemyre has been added to Team USA as the bullpen coach. Congrats to one of the best Yankee pitchers, ever…and a damned fine pitching coach.”

    Ditto for Stotts.

    The first full year Al Downing came up to start for the Yankees was 1963-another favorite of mine. Stats for 1963:
    13-5; 10 complete games with 4 shutouts; 176 IP; only 114 hits and 7 homers; 171 SO; and an ERA of 2.56

    ————————————————————

    Yeah, I loved Al Downing, too. Lord, could he throw hard, and had that big Sandy Koufax curveball. Don’t forget….Downing spent the first two months of ’63 in the minors (Richmond). Little guy….big fastball…big curve.
    That ’63 rotation was spectacular. Ford (24 wins), Bouton 21 wins), Terry (17 wins) and Downing (13 wins).

    If Bill Stafford and Roland Sheldon had stayed healthy, they would never have lost. ’64 was more of the same, though Terry slid off the mountain and they moved Stottlemyre in and traded Terry to Cleveland. If they had made that trade about a week earlier, they could have had Pete Ramos on the WS roster, and the Yanks would have beaten St. Louis in the Series. He was great down the stretch closing the games.

  270. Tommy January 17th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    I hope the Yankees will be in on Mulder.

  271. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Ham Fighters-

    Randy Wolf got stronger as the season progressed. He was 4-1 in September with a 2.23 ERA and 28 strikeouts in 32 innings with 1 CG. Plus he’s a lefty. Expect someone to sign him for 3 years, but who knows.

  272. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    re wolf’s #’s: i should clarify that was combined padres/houston last year for wolf. actually he got better after being traded from petco to enron *cough* minute maid park.

  273. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    “I hope the Yankees will be in on Mulder.”

    I wouldn’t mind giving him a minor league deal but you can’t expect much, if anything.

  274. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    Bets, what do you think all of this means about Melky?

  275. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    GB7-

    Ah, memories of favorite Yankee players growing up. Thanks again for the feedback and I won’t intentionally refer to you as GB&.

  276. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    pick your head up al, there’s no shame here:

    http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/wri.....owning.jpg

  277. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    m-LOL! It’s a shame really because if everyone on the FA market is completely healthy with no risks so they can be judged on just talent CC, AJ and Sheets are the best pitchers available and Sheets cant get a job after starting 31 games, not to mention the All Star game, and AJ scares loyal Yankee fans like me because we know what he can do and we know what his record shows are two different things. Plus after going through the Pavano thing I’m more worried about the 5 years than AJ. I would have rather had Sheets on a 3 year deal instead of AJ for 5. Pavano for 4 was painful but now they set themselves up for the same potential thing for even longer. But hopefully AJ WILL stay HEALTHY and we wont have to worry about it. AJ’s a MONSTER when he’s healthy.

    Now I want Sheets to sign a 1 year deal with the Yanks to fill their #5. I keep seeing they aren’t interested but I think if he’ll take a 1 year deal instead of a multi-year deal, which he has to ask for right now with the Mets in the mix, I think they will look at him. He’d be another one to pray for. LOL! If I was Ca$h I’d give him $12MM or less for 1 year to come to NY. He should want a 1 year deal anyway to prove he’s healthy and get in on a weak market. I think he’ll realistically end up with a $5-7MM deal in the end if he ends up with a 1 year deal. Thats crazy because of his ability.

    Regardless of all of that we definitely need to hope an pray for all of our starters to be healthy this season. If they are, we’ll have a powerful team. If we have to deal with injuries Girardi might get his walking papers.

  278. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    m
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
    gianthinker,

    I will, too. Hughes is the other one in my thoughts.

    And I’m not even religous!

    ————————————————————

    Since when isn’t Yankeeism a religion?

  279. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    “Keep Swisher over Nady, but keep both of them. Depth is good.”

    I agree. Unless the Yankees can get a steal, it’s not like we need to trade one of them. Depth is definitely good.

  280. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    gianthinker, my understanding is that the mets want to ‘take a look’ at his medical info. that indicates to me they havent seen it yet. i will be interested if i hear them continue to pursue him after they’ve seen them.

  281. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Boston Dave-
    “I hope the Yankees will be in on Mulder.”

    “I wouldn’t mind giving him a minor league deal but you can’t expect much, if anything.”

    Wouldn’t expect much since he hasn’t been effective since 2005 season, but apparently will be pitching before scouts soon. Might have more luck with Freddy Garcia if he would take a minor league deal.

  282. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    “It depends on the trade talk,” Cashman said. “If we feel there’s a benefit, we’ll make a move. That’s basically it. We’re in a position where we don’t have to make a move, so that’s a strong position to be in. We could have them all year. We’re not going to do anything unless there’s a reason to do it.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

    Sorry if that’s a repeat.

  283. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Can anyone tell me that website that streams Yankee games during the season?

    I used to get MLB Extra Innings but won’t have that available to me this season and I’m not a fan of mlb.tv

    any suggestions?

  284. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Yankee Trader
    January 17th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
    GB7-

    Ah, memories of favorite Yankee players growing up. Thanks again for the feedback and I won’t intentionally refer to you as GB&.

    ————————————————————

    My pleasure YT. I enjoy the reminiscing about those teams of my youth. I’ll try not to call you “Yankee Traitor”, either.

  285. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    ansky, sweet ride!:

    http://www.gbclassiccars.co.uk....._mk1_b.jpg

  286. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    If the Yankees could make that deal with the Cubs for Hill, it would give them “deep depth” in the rotation.

    I don’t think at Mulder could survive n the AL East.

  287. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    GreenBeret7-LOL! The Yankees are my false idol. LOL!

    Ham Fighters-Yeah, I saw the same thing. If the Mets choose Ollie Perez over Sheets it will kill Sheets market. It only leaves Texas as far as fans know. There’s obviously something wrong with him. I recognize that. But his potential is crazy and I think his 31 starts showed he can play through whatever they see on the physical. If he’ll take a 1 year deal I think he’s well worth the chance. The ultimate low risk, high reward signing. He could get hurt and be out all season or he could be an ace. On a 1 year deal I’d give him what it took to sign him and get whatever I an out of him.

  288. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    GreenBeret7-Hill wouldn’t be a bad pickup. I’d rather take Ted Lilly of their hands though.

  289. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    GB7-
    Yikes!! Yankee Traitor-NEVER!!

    Remember Andy Messesmith, big Yankee FA signing, after playing with the Braves. Didn’t win a game, pitched 22 innings for us and was out of baseball one year later. What a waste of money.

    I put a call into Gabe Paul,our GM at the time, who was at the winter meetings in Hawaii to warn him that he had definite medical issues, and the Yankees could save some money and pass on the deal. Luckily he didn’t call me back, as I would have felt bad messing with someones ability to earn a living.

  290. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    i really think that finishing the season on the shelf last year kills sheets. you know how badly he wanted to pitch, to make the playoffs and also to establish his value in his walk year. so he had to be really hurting to pull out then.

    im not against him myself, but i have to assume that the yankee’s medical people, along with alot of other medical people, dont think he’s even worth the $5-6M+ floating around now.
    i wish he was, but it appears he isnt.

  291. Fran January 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    YES is broadcasting 12 games from Spring Training this year including the 2 exhibition games against the Cubs from Yankee Stadium.

  292. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    “I think his 31 starts showed he can play through whatever they see on the physical.”

    remember way back when the Brewers made the playoffs? Well, they left Sheets off the NLDS roster. So I guess he couldn’t pitch through it. They left him off the roster completely.

    what does that show?

  293. Al from BK January 17th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    This may sound absurd but we should sign Ollie Perez. He is young left-handed and he is going to take way less than his worth because of the economy. Sure he is wild but when he is effective he is un-hittable. I would sign him to a 3-4 year deal at 10-12 per. Also for those who think he would be blocking other young guys think again. Chances are if we have a jam in the rotation in the next few years Wang will be let go and then his spot can be for the “heir/s apparent” Betances, Brackman etc. I just think he is the most valuable pitcher available high K’s and he doesn’t give up a lot of hits, the BB’s are his downfall but those can be controlled if he ever has one of his 8 walk games.

  294. Boston Dave January 17th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Al from BK,

    Oliver Perez wouldn’t be a bad signing on a 3yr deal, but I disagree that the Yanks should just let Wang go to make room.

    I guess Wang is never going to get the respect he deserves.

  295. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Yankee Trader
    January 17th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
    GB7-
    Yikes!! Yankee Traitor-NEVER!!

    Remember Andy Messesmith, big Yankee FA signing, after playing with the Braves. Didn’t win a game, pitched 22 innings for us and was out of baseball one year later. What a waste of money.

    I put a call into Gabe Paul,our GM at the time, who was at the winter meetings in Hawaii to warn him that he had definite medical issues, and the Yankees could save some money and pass on the deal. Luckily he didn’t call me back, as I would have felt bad messing with someones ability to earn a living.

    Messersmith was a great pickup for NYY, actually. He was pitchng well and was in the starting roation until his last start of spring training in ’78. He was covering first baseon a play and was run ov by the hitter. It seperated his shoulder and that was it. He was never the same. He made 5 starts in June and July, but, the curveball and fastball was gone.

  296. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Messersmith was a straght cash deal. NYY bought him from Atlanta for $100,000, I believe.

  297. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    CORRECTION: straght cash deal….Not as good as a “straight cash deal”

  298. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 17th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Well everyone knows how I feel on this I’d go w/ Sheets.

    As for Nady…if he nets you Milledge when Lasting is probably playing the poorest he’ll ever play and has great upside, I’d take Milledge and few arms if possible for X.

    Another potential is the Braves who have soured on Jordan Schaffer after the 50 game suspension, your not getting Gorky from them so forget about that or any other high end arm. The closest thing you’ll probably get may be and it’s a strectch but you throw in Melky and Kennedy maybe they decide to shop Jurrjens and that maybe would be extremely slim.

  299. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 17th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    ‘Also for those who think he would be blocking other young guys think again. Chances are if we have a jam in the rotation in the next few years Wang will be let go and then his spot can be for the “heir/s apparent” Betances, Brackman etc.’

    Wang is definitely a goner w/ Betances, WDR, Zach and Brack in the wings. And people keep forgetting about Christian Garcia.

  300. Ham Fighters January 17th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    brandon r u the one who said eli better look out b/c of the qb the giants have on the practice squad?

  301. gianthinker (SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!) January 17th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Boston Dave-Joba, Hughes and IPK were rushed to the pros. But once they were up the team should have had patients enough to let them struggle and pitch through their bad times. Other teams let their young guys get killed and those guys learn how to pitch in the majors eventually. We, as NYers dont have patients for that so we sent them down and of course some got hurt. Joba we go from pen to starter to pen to starter. Thats not how you handle these kids. If you bring them up you let them pitch or you dont bring them up.

    Now, as far as Sheets not being able to pitch through it because they left him off the NLCS roster is only because he got hurt within the couple weeks leading up to it. He pitched 31 games for a total of 198.3 innings. The guy had bad timing with his injury. Had he had the same injury earlier in the year he’d have gotten a 4 year deal at least and be one of the first guys signed. Instead he’s a pariah. Now, the guy might have legit concerns. I’m not saying to give him a CC deal. I’m saying he’s an ace and there are very few of them in MLB and we should take advantage of putting him in a rotation of CC, AJ, Wang and Joba and have 5 guys with ace stuff. Some of his starts could be skipped to give him rest. This is the kind of guy you baby. Not guys in their prime condition. If we can get him on a 1 year deal, and thats still an IF, then we should sign him even if his physical says his arm might fall off by the all star break. At least we got the half season out of him that we didn’t have to make one of the young kids do. Hughes will be up eventually and I believe he has it in him to be an ace but right now we need to bring someone in that can fill our rotation. Even if its not Sheets.

  302. hardwired January 17th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    completely and utterly off-topic: how much do you think McDonald’s would need to pay Denver to change their team name to the Denver McNuggets? A LOT, is my guess.

    _____________________________________

    back on-topic: Why not sign Sheets, and simply use him late in the season? If he only has a few bullets left, be honest about it and utilize him as the inevitably needed 2nd half fill-in. If he’s the fifth starter, his early season innings will be limited by the nature of the schedule. It would garner much consternation, no doubt, as a vulgar display of fiscal over-indulgence. However, 2009 is going to see one stacked team sitting the post-season out, and it’s going to take shrewd and ballsy moves to ensure the Yanks aren’t that team, again.

  303. Tex's New Best Friend January 17th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Wang isn’t going anywhere as long as he keeps pitching how he has all this time. Chances are we only have Sabathia for 3 years anyway.

  304. Tom January 18th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    I don’t get it…the exact stats cited by Peter to make the case against Garland, are strikingly similar to Pettite’s last year. Yet nobody here wants Garland, and many of you would take Pettite.

    Both pitched about 200 innings last season. Garland gave up 237 hits and 59 walks. Pettite gave up 233 hits and 55 walks (238/69 in ’07). Garland hit 8 batters, Pettite hit 7. Garland had a 1.51 WHIP, Pettite 1.41 (1.43 in ’07). Garland’s second half ERA of 5.99 is not much worse than Pettite’s 5.35. Pettite certainly had a better K/9 ratio, but his .338 OBP against wasn’t so great compared to Garland’s .359.

    Aside from Peter’s oversight in offering these stats to make his case, those in the comments should do a little stat-mining themselves. We’re talking about a fifth starter here, people…

  305. Gold Rush January 19th, 2009 at 7:32 am

    Keep all them bums, Garland, Sheets etc, give me manny and we’ll pound our way tto the championship

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