Pinch hitting: Sox And Pinstripes
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- January
- 22
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January is traditionally a slow month for baseball news. So for the second year in a row, we will showcase other blogs with a series of pinch hitters.
Next up is John from Sox and Pinstripes.
John represents the pinstripes portion of the Sox and Pinstripes blog as a regular contributor from his current home in San Francisco. His first game was seeing Ron Guidry strike out 18 and he was in the stands on Oakland when Derek Jeter made his famous flip to Jorge Posada. John is married to a Red Sox fan but says good parenting prevailed and his son’s favorite player is Jeter.
Here’s his post:
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It wasn’t exactly on a where-were-you-when-JFK-got-shot level. But I clearly remember when I first read that the Yankees signed Mark Teixeira. I almost coughed up my breakfast, and the first person who popped into my head was Red Sox exec Larry Lucchino. My immediate thought was, he dubbed the Yanks the “Evil Empire” over a measly little signing of Jose Contreras?? If only he had known, if only he had kept his powder dry for this offseason.
With that said, perception and reality don’t always synch up. For example, before CC Sabathia and Teixeira, 17 players had signed contracts of more than $100 million. The only one of those where the Yankees lured a player from another team was Jason Giambi in 2001.
Still, did the Yanks panic and scrap Brian Cashman’s youth plan in favor of a return to Steinbrennarian (as John Sterling would say) excess?
Not at all. The four major additions this winter (including Nick Swisher) are ages 28, 28, 28 and 32. This is not Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson revisited. In fact, when Sabathia’s deal expires, he will only be as old as Derek Lowe is right now.
These moves also give Cashman the buffer to use his kids more. With Teixeira, you can let Brett Gardner and Melky Cabrera battle. With Sabathia and Burnett, you can give Phil Hughes a shot at the fifth slot.
Did the Yankees need Teixeira? No, but they were vulnerable this year, and really would have needed him next year when two more important bats (Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui) came off the books.
The Yankees made the one move they did need to make: Sabathia. And they hit the bonus round with Teixeira, an addition that helps this year, fills an urgent need next year and, best of all, was also the one move that the rival Red Sox really did need to make.
Now the Sox face a fading core of injury-prone vets (David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, Jason Varikek) with a hugely disappointing set of free agent options next winter. And with their top prize gone, they’ve ended up getting even older this winter with Takashi Saito (39) and John Smoltz (41).
Suddenly, in a single winter, the Yanks are younger and more athletic, and the Sox are older, more injury-prone, more vulnerable. These moves take the pressure off, not only for this season but the next several seasons, while the Sox risk being left without a chair when the free agent music stops.
We’ve heard all the gripes, and reminders that you can’t buy titles. True enough. We all know how the last Yankee major coup over the Sox, Alex Rodriguez, has worked out so far. But when you look at what historically works best for the Yanks, it isn’t just about money — that’s a constant — it’s about smart use of money. Players in their primes, brought in at positions of need, surrounded by home grown talent.
Check, check and check.
The games are still to come, but the Yanks just had a very good winter, the Sox a very rough one.
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Thanks, John. Coming tomorrow: Tom from Bronx Block.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, January 22nd, 2009 at 12:42 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....t-done-yet
If the sneaky Ken Rosenhal as considered it, you know that it has been talked about by Brian Cashman and the Yankees’ braintrust. Pettite vs. Sheets (incentive-laden) and Cruz? Is it that simple? Is is that possible???
Thoughts, Mr. Abraham?
Great post
Great post. Excellent, albeit biased =P analysis.
I think as a Yankee fan this post was very comforting. We didn’t need Tex but it was a super move for the future considering the free agent market is so shallow next year. Damon and Matsui off the books= Matt Holiday?
Excellent post, John, and similar to the logic the ESPN talking heads SHOULD be employing in analysis of the 2 teams, if they weren’t such sox slurpers.
“We all know how the last Yankee major coup over the Sox, Alex Rodriguez, has worked out so far.”
He’s been with the team for 4 years and has won the AL MVP in two of those years. I’d say it’s worked out pretty darn well so far.
oh, and because I’m a little behind the 8-ball tonight, I was refreshing the previous post w/o realizing a new one was up, so here is a copy/paste of what I just posted in there re: Garcia/other potential no. 5 candidates:
“BBB
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 am
“I dont think that Garcia saying he “would prefer a major-league contract, which would guarantee him termination pay if he were released in March,” is really the way one would want to come across to an interested team who is thinking about taking a flyer on you.”
Dave: I was thinking the same thing; what employer wants to hire an employee who is already planning for his pink slip?
On the other hand though, to give Garcia the benefit of the doubt, maybe he just wants a shot to pitch for a good team first (a reasonable assumption since only the Yanks and Mets were mentioned and nothin about any team like the Rangers, who would obviously take any pitcher) but wants to protect himself with the “severance pay” in case the competition proves too much and he then has to embark upon the process of joining a bad team in, which could take a month or 2 since you have to figure even the worst teams will give even their worst arms 5-10 starts to prove themselves before cutting them and opening up a spot.
It’s still kind of weird and his agent probably isnt that good at his job to disclose such info., but maybe this is just his way of trying to hook on with a good team.
At any rate, I’d pretty much rather have him than Garland. I don’t think Garland is a guy you really can take a flier on, because as bad as he can be, he can still get a full time job somewhere. Seems to me like he’s one we’d be stuck having in the rotation, no matter how bad he sucks. And he’ll never get hurt so that’s one less young arm to get a chance.
Besides, he would cost a draft pick. Even though it’s only a 4th rounder (?) I’d rather use that on someone like Juan Cruz. If we are gonna take a flier on a 2nd SP besides Garcia, I’d go with Mulder.
oh and also, maybe I’m just a weirdo, but w/r/t FA OF’s for 2010, I’m not a huge Holliday fan for his drastic home/away splits and the money/years he’d require, but I do like Marlon Byrd for his versatility (he can play anywhere in the OF, would give us an actual CF in case Jackson isn’t ready for Opening Day) and much lower cost.
I can’t believe I’m sitting here pondering what Freddy Garcia might be thinking and who the Yankees should sign in a year at 1:30 a.m. Insomnia sucks! lol
Is this going to be Cain vs Able, Part II? With brothers like this, who needs enemies?
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....rot-1.html
Read it an weep, Dave.
One of my favorite pinch hit posts so far. Great job of putting things in perspective! I love the optimistic view of the future for the Yanks!
John,
Great post – I really like how you focused on free agency which surprisingly, not many guest bloggers have done. One thing though, How many times did you say next winters options are not so good? His name has been mentioned twice in 8 posts by 5 different bloggers which should tell you how good he is perceived to be – WHAT ABOUT MATT HOLLIDAY?? I realize his home/road splits put him in a less favorable light but the guy is a monster at times- entirely capable of taking on the load of best hitter in the lineup. And he should be able to answer the question: Did Coors field make him one of the best hitters in the game this year when he is starting in left for oakland with Giambi behind him. If given the steal sign often enough which should not be a problem on the yanks, holliday is full capable of being a 30-30 guy at the very least. And his two consecutive 400 obp and higher than 320 avg seasons tell me he is about to join the elite as he is stepping into his own as a player at the age of 28.
How convenient that he should be the mvp of the free agent class the very same off season that we will desperately need an outfielder particularly a left fielder with swish in right and hopefully AJax in center. A 3,4,5 of Holliday, Tex and Arod would be absolutely brutal for the opposing pitching. I know jason bay becomes a free agent next year signalling a bidding war if holliday shows the world he isnt just padding his stats with coors but with 32 mil coming off the books for matsui, damon and nady so we could certainly foot the bill especially with very little other options out there (if crawford’s option is exercised).
And AJ is 32 and will be 37 when his contract ends so it was not all very young guys that we signed but it certainly was a great off season.
Excellent post!
The HOF might be just another museum for mark mcgwire but my autograph from him sure could use him in the hall of fame right about now. i GUESS he was never getting into the hall no matter what happened over the next decade. This was not some vote that was slowly going up each year and eventually would hit 75. He was doomed from the start.
BBB,
You definitely are right about garland not really being a flyer – he would probably take the spot but we kind of need somebody to give us another 200 innings no? I guess we can get someone better than garland but who and when??
Garcia is not the signing that puts us over the top. He would be a lightening in a bottle type who we would sign on a minor league deal for nothing and see what happens. Its not loss to sign him for the minor league deal but no huge gain either.
Garland was offered arbitration and declined? i didnt even remember that. i AGREE about cruz but not for 2 years and over 10 mil – that is too much and we dont have that kind of money left to spend on someone we dont need.
The Garcia comment was dumb – i dont know what he was thinking unless to say that he wanted a major league deal and that was his reason why … pretty flimsy nonsensical reasoning that could backfire relatively easily.
I really dont think the yanks choice is garland or garcia. it may very well be garcia and who else? We can sign garcia and still make a play for another starter pretty easily. Garcia wont cost much of anything and i dont think the yanks would expect him to amount of much of anything. If he gave us something good next year, it would be nice and something really good would not be expected.
Mulder has not pitched well and been healthy for a season since 2005 and he is 31. He basically missed the large majority of his age 28, 29 and 30 seasons – his prime. I wouldnt even take a flyer on mulder. What could he possibly give us at this point? 50 innings of very mediocre pitching tops. Garcia is a better bet.
Matt Holliday’s home OPS over the last 3 years is 243 points higher than his away OPS (1.099 compared to .856). His batting average is 65 points higher at home (.361 compared to .296). His slugging percentage is 183 points higher at home (.669 compared to .486).
He’s going to be exposed in Oakland next year.
One more thing, since everyone else seems to be sleeping and I am still wired from red bull. I noticed john said “With Sabathia and Burnett, you can give Phil Hughes a shot at the fifth slot.”
This is the one comment i do not agree with in your post. You would be very hardpressed to find a bigger Hughes supporter than me. I got his autograph when he was still in A ball before there was even an autograph in the stores. I remember going to the sports memorabilia store in the palisades mall and asking if they had a Phil Hughes autograph anything and the guy yelled to another guy in the back “Who the heck is Phil Hughes”. I drove to trenton in 2006 to watch him pitch a night game when i lived 2 hrs away and had to get up for work at 5 AM. He is the major reason i started learning about the yankees farm system when he was first selected by the yanks.I love Hughes and i think when ready, he will not dissapoint.
But facts are facts and all signs point to hughes returning to triple A after the spring. I know he did well in the arizona fall league but it still appears he has work to do before re-entering the majors. And this time, the yanks dont want to push him into it as they did last year. Plus, if we dont end up signing anybody else, at least we have aceves to take the spot until he is ready. This is the major reason I am worried about the starting pitching depth though but i wont get into that again. Frankly, unless hughes is just shutting down any and all opposition in the spring, i doubt he takes the fifth spot right out of camp.
no. 27 – i guess we will see. I cant believe coors even with all the equipment for the ball dehumidifier or whatever it is still has that significant of an advantage. Maybe he just plays better in front of a home crowd too. Those stats are soo bias, i would think it has to do with something else even beyond the size of the ballpark. Even his on base percentage for his career is about 60 points lower – that is insane to be a park bias stat because they are just so inconsistent. We shall see. Im glad we are getting to see holliday play outside of coors before he becomes a free agent to really see what kind of role the park played in his hitting – im sure he will make some adjustments as good hitters do.
Look at his post season numbers though – 5 homers in 45 at bats with 10 rbis – thats across the NLDS, NLCS and wold series hitting 2,2 and 1 homerun respectively.
He also finished 15th, 2nd and 18th in mvp voting. Im sure the park plays a role in his success but i doubt it is as big as the numbers would have us believe. He is a fantastic hitter really. It may drop some numbers but i doubt he becomes a 280 348 455 hitter with a 73 ops plus which are his career numbers away. Cano even had an 86 ops plus last year so those numbers are really terrible esp power and hits. He also has 45 more strike outs and almost 120 less hits away in 50 less at bats – that cant be a factor of the park alone. Im sure there are other things at play here. The 40 homerun difference between the two is significant i would think as is the 130 less rbis.
doodi3
im thinking if Damon has a good year in 09 they mite resign him for another 2 years.
Good post but don’t forget about the Rays.
Dave
by all acounts Mulder is healthy and will be ready to start the season.and has gone back to his old arm slot when he had success with oakland
a lefty with AL success that is only 31 is worth taking a punt on
been reports he could be the steal of the season
Great post, John. And great job on raising the next generation of Yankees fans!
I am SO excited for this season to begin. Let’s Go Yankees!
Good post and yes, for this season at least the Yankees have avoided the dreaded “past-their-prime” trade or free agent signing. Does it mean they have finally learned? I don’t know. I hope so. But weren’t they just discussing the possibility of bringing in Mike Cameron?
John -
Good post – I liked your choice of subject matter and the optimistic outlook and the favorable comparison to the Sox, of course!
We shall see what we shall see, but things certainly do seem to be looking up for our Yankees. It was a good winter so far. Firming up the empty rotation spot is the one pressing matter left. As far as the bench goes, that always seems to be the final detail for the Yankees. But even that, if they keep both Swisher and Nady, is decent – an improvement over last season, with the possible exception of the infield relief. Is it Cody Ransom right now? He was okay last season.
I can’t wait for spring training to begin. Even P&C reporting isn’t enough anymore – it’s something, it’s at least a news item a day, but it’s not meaty, you know?
“We all know how the last Yankee major coup over the Sox, Alex Rodriguez, has worked out so far.”
What else do Yankees fans want A-Rod to do?…..jump of a building and land on his two feet. The guy has produce, he has not change a bit since he left Texas the Yankees got exactly what they wanted out of him. SO for you to say that it hasn’t work out well, makes you a little naive about the issue.
I should add that I also disagree with John’s characterization of the how getting ARod has ‘worked out’ for the Yankees.
But that’s another topic I’ve sworn off, so I’ll let it go at that.
John, anytime anyone finds a way to put the Red Sox in their proper place, I find it cause for celebration. When someone does it by using good solid logic that’s the icing on the cake!
Seriously, great post.
The Sox have plenty of young guys waiting to come up. Not sure I’d be bragging about age of rosters quite yet. Some good points though, nice post.
Good piece! Nice work.
And though it may still happen, the Sox have not yet signed Varitek (another Boras special; both Manny and Varitek have Boras as their agent. How did that work out?
. If they don’t sign Varitek, one of their pitching dandies will be on his way elsewhere.
Jeff Kent decided to retire. I look at the names of the unsigned free agents every night on MLB TV and it hits me square in the face that the trickle-down effects of our economic global disaster has spared no profession. (I still remember watching Orlando Hudson play when he was with the Jays and and continually lamenting that he wasn’t in pinstripes…)
Great post, I really enjoyed it. Driving home last night I had WEEI on. The “Big O” and various callers were trying to convince themselves that the Yankees are not any better than last year. The reasoning? They say AJ will get hurt and CC only replaces Moose’s 20 wins. What they missed was 1) Moose’s 20 wins were of the 6 inning variety. 2) Maybe (just maybe) AJ has really turned a corner 3) We get Wang back and 4) at the end of the season our pitching staff was Moose, a hurt Pettitte, Rasner, Sidney and Carl Pavano…should be a good season for the Yankees!
Interesting post, John. Unfortunately I’m not sure I can take comfort in your assessment that the Red Sox are “a fading core of injury-prone vets”. Besides Ortiz and Varitek, the Red Sox corps is quite young and haven’t even reached their prime (Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lowry, Papelbon, Lester, Bucholtz, Masterson, Dice K). They have acquired veterans to fill in around their corps group (Ortiz, Lowell, Bay, Drew,Kotsay) – not unlike the Great Yankee Teams of the Late 90s did.
That said, the Yankees have improved and are getting younger.
I’m just dismayed at the amount of money that the Yankee FO spends In comparison to other major market MLB Teams. The signings of Youkilis and Pedroia for the average of $5 Million per year is particularly interesting. Has Boston found a way to provide “bonus incentives” outside of their Player Salary dollars to entice these guys into signing comparitely low long-term deals?
Robby Cano was a comparatively low long-term deal, no? (And this was after 2-plus successful seasons – we do not know how Pedroia will do in ‘09 – no one really figured Cano for such a down year in ‘08.)
Papelbon didn’t sign for peanuts.
I think it’s easy to make blanket statements about either team, but if you go into the particulars, well, it gets a little dicey.
So is this blog of a “He Said – She Said” format?
I read last night about how the Bush twins had written a letter to Malia and Sasha offering advice on growing up in the White House.
One of the tips was that “If your father throws out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium, go to the game.”
Obama’s a southpaw by the way.
One of my favorite Jeter stories, and it may be from the documentary about the 2001 Series, is how Pres Bush is practicing throwing out the first pitch somewhere under Yankee Stadium and Jeter finds him and tells him something to the effect of ” If you bounce it, they’re goin to boo you”
Bush threw a strike.
Also, I think the Yankees use their money like a knock-out punch. If they don’t have to use it, they don’t necessarily use it, but in a case like Sabathia, where the need was clear but the outcome in doubt, you sweeten the pot. The Yankees did not have to out-bid the Nationals to get Teixeira (whether or not the Nats had a bona fide chance to acquire Tex is a different issue), but they did have to out-bid the Red Sox. If they didn’t, shopping venues notwithstanding, Tex would be in Boston right now. AJ Burnett would be on the Braves if the Yankees did not up the ante.
Until the farm system is a really reliable source of new players, the Yankees have to make smart use of their money in the free agent market, and I think they’ve done that this season.
Excellent Post.
ESPN’s bias will tell you and the average fan that Boston’s signings are wonderful and a risk worth taking: Smoltz hasn’t felt thios good since he was 18, Saito feels like a new pitcher. While, the Yankees’ signing of AJ was irresponsible. All we ever hear about is how the Yankees spend and spend without letting the Youth develop. Let’s remember we signed CC for the same money as Johan and didn’t have to give up 4-5 minor/ major leaguers. That’s never mentioned on ESPN.
Great note on Tex, as next year, the Yankees have another $39 mm coming off the books (Damon, Hatsui, Nady, some others). Luckily, ESPN doesn’t decide the World Series champs, and this game is played on the field.
Bronx Jeers -
I saw that about Jeter/Bush just last night! Bush told the story that he saw Jeter in the halls behind the dugout and asked his advice about whether he should throw from the mound or take the short-cut and Jeter told him to throw from the mound. Bush said Jeter started to leave, but turned around and told him, “But you better not bounce it. They’ll boo you.” Really cool story.
Boof, what accounts are you referring to? I haven’t read anything on Mulder, positive or negative – I’m not sure he’s even thrown for the scouts yet.
“I’m just dismayed at the amount of money that the Yankee FO spends In comparison to other major market MLB Teams. The signings of Youkilis and Pedroia for the average of $5 Million per year is particularly interesting”
Latham Joe, I agree that the Sox signed Youkilis and Pedroia for below market figures but the 5 million per year figure is inaccurate.
Pedroia will be averaging a little over 6 million, but Youkilis’ contract is for 4 years at over 41 million so that is over ten million a year.
I no longer watch ESPN, so their Red Sox crush is going right past me, lol.
Doreen, I don’t think the Yankees necessarily had to give more $$$ to Tex in order to lure him from the Sox. He definitely preferred the Yankees – they were his top choice. He wasn’t going to take much less from the Yankees (who would do that with any team?), but if the offers were equal, NY would still have been his destination. As it is, the $10 million difference between our offer and the Sox’ is really minimal. If he really wanted to be in Boston, he’d be there.
Very good post, good job. Guys I emailed Peter last night about going on a trip, he said he has already talked to people in Scranton but since he doesn’t have his schedule can’t committ to anything right now. He said if someone organizes it he will give us the forum to publicize it. I think we should go ahead but not to like June or July and also just organize a yankee game to get together at? Your thoughts guys?
Interview with Joba
http://www.omaha.com/index.php.....d=10544088
Doreen:
I agree that Robbie Cano has been signed for a “decent” long-term deal (4 Years/ $30 Mil). Its always been my opinion that Robbie has the most potential of all of the NYY’s MiLB position player prospects.
However, Pedroia is 25, has been Rookie of The year, M.V.P. and has a Silver Slugger Award. He signs a 7-year deal for $40.5 Million. That’s less than $7.0 Million per year.
Have the Red Sox found a way to supplement those salary dollars offered to key players like they have with Matsuzaka?
Ray:
I apologize. Youre correct about Youkilis. I thought his was a 7-year deal also.
. Do you pamper yourself?
A. I take care of my skin. When I’m back home, I’ll get facials and sometimes manicures. I’m a big Bath and Body Shop fan. I like to smell good all of the time.
———
haha Someone needs to introduce the boy to some of the finer things in life. Bath and Body is not one of them.
check out this groundbreaking story about boston
Google Trends: Boston is the suicide curiosity capital of the world!
http://horizontalplane.com/200.....e-methods/
“We all know how the last Yankee major coup over the Sox, Alex Rodriguez, has worked out so far.”
I thought this was a great post until I got to this sentence. There are two serious problems with it.
First, it should be blindingly obvious that ARod is one of the best players in baseball, and it should be a good thing that he plays for us instead of our biggest rivals.
Second, the thought of ARod playing shortstop for the Sox instead of Lugo should be mortifying for any Yankee fan. I think the 2004-2008 Sox with ARod still win their two titles, and possibly more.
it is very simple as to why the red sox have been better the last several years,better pitching & more debth at pitching along with a similar offense.
we have better pitching now but need to finish the job & add debth.
it makes no sense in the world to stop short of one good pitcher.this will allow us to slot joba properly & use hughes,acevez,etc as debth & to spot start.
i think we also have a better offense again.we have 3 pitchers & joba in the rotation.that ios not enough.
LathamJoe
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:58 am
Ray:
“I apologize. Youre correct about Youkilis. I thought his was a 7-year deal also.”
Hey, certainly no apology needed. I was just clarifying a little bit.
I could be wrong but I think Youk’s contract is four 4 years with a 5th year option.
ARod has been TERRIBLE as a Yankee! In his 5 years (NY), his average year lloks like:
152 OPS+, 42 HRs, 21 SBs (17% CS), 123 RBI, average D at 3rd base, .948 OPS w/men on.
NO WONDER WE CAN’T WIN!
ARod has been TERRIBLE as a Yankee! In his 5 years (NY), his average year lloks like:
152 OPS+, 42 HRs, 21 SBs (17% CS), 123 RBI, average D at 3rd base, .948 OPS w/men on.
NO WONDER WE CAN’T WIN!
That’s Old(but wise).
(The eyes are the first thing to go.)
Up w/Joba, down w/Joba
Take a look what the fool
faruq wrote.
Pedroia won the MVP, but he shouldn’t have. If anybody, it should have gone to Youkilis. In any other year of the last 7 or 8, neither one is even in the top 5 of the voting, however. Jeter’s ‘06 season was better than Pedroia’s year this year, and Jeter finished 2nd? or third.
Also, I don’t remember who won the silver slugger at 2nd base in ‘06, but I can’t think of anybody who had a better year than Cano at .340.
I don’t know the figures on Wang/Cano/Youk/Pedroia, but when comparing contracts, you have to look at how many Arb vs FA years were bought out.
Cano had 3 full years im MLB at his contract time, while Ped had 2. So if the Yanks ‘bought out’ one more FA year of Cano vs Pedroia, then his contract might ultimately be cheaper. But again, I don’t know the exact numbers, but they HAVE to be taken into account when evaluating these contracts.
Plus, the Yanks have done well with Wang’s salary (from their point of view).
“If the sneaky Ken Rosenhal as considered it, you know that it has been talked about by Brian Cashman and the Yankees’ braintrust. Pettite vs. Sheets (incentive-laden) and Cruz? Is it that simple? Is is that possible???”
i figure it would take 8 ben sheets to fill 5 starting spots this year vs. 6 1/2 andy pettittes to fill 5 spots. probably 7 burnetts, 6 wangs, 9 jobas,6 sabathias.
unless luck is on the yankees side , they really need 6 good starters to cover for the almost certain pitcher loss of at least one pitcher for 2009 out of sabathia, wang, burnett, joba, and either pettitte or sheets.
there is probably an 80% chance that the yankees will lose one of the staring five for most of the year or the combined time on the disabled list will add up to a full year for one pitcher.
so the yankees are not one good starting pitcher short right now. they really are short two if they want to insure having 5 good starters all year.
so john’s analysis , while well written, is ignoring the fact the yankee rotation is based on hoping for good luck with injuries to yankee starting pitchers. i think that the more you prepare the luckier you get, so cashman really needs to get two more good starters.
i’d rather have 6 good starters than have nady and swisher . i’d package one of those two in a deal for another good starter, preferably one who is durable.
randy I
I read with a lot of interest one of your posts yesterday about Maine. Although I am a Sox fan I agree that there are quite a few Yankee fans here, and in fact one of my good buddies is a Yankee fan.
But what really caught my attention was you talking about Skowhegan and the family farm in Farmington. I grew up on a family farm very close to Farmington (actually East Wilton 7 miles west of Farmington).
I am just really curious whether I knew or know about any of your family roots in this area. As you know the towns are small and people tend to know each other.
If you don’t feel comfortable talking about this with all of cyberspace you could consider sending me an email at raycorey@hotmail.com
Thanks.
In fact, Cano did win the Silver Slugger in ‘06, for whatever it’s worth. He was a lot closer to winning the batting title than Pedroia, as well.
Randy, good point about the starters, but every team does rely on good luck to a point with rotation health. The Rays last year had virtually complete seasons from every starter, thus they won the division. I don’t see a repeat of that this year. But, the Yanks would be well served to have one more reliable arm. They went into last year with 2 question marks. They are going into this year with two question marks as well. Joba, whose effectiveness is there, is a question mark as far as completing a full season. Hughes and the gang are no less of an if than they were at this time last year.
What makes anyone think Pettitte would definitely make 32 starts this year? He ended last season with shoulder problems, and has an iffy elbow. He has his moments too, but there is certainly no guarantee he would not be the one on the DL this year.
Cashman is still at work in pursuit of that elusive starter still needed in the rotation.
Futher development of Hughes, Joba’s innings limitation, Aceves as a possible long reliever, and the Pettitte mystery have the GM’s eyes and ears working overime as spring training quickly approaches.
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....dy-garcia/
I’m the founder of Sox and Pinstripes, and John is a periodic contributor. Most of his posts, unfortunately, are sorely misguided. The one above is a prime example.
True, Varitek is a question mark. He is in the twilight of his career, and it is uncertain whether he has much left at the plate, though he definitely does behind it. Lowell and Ortiz are coming off injuries, so it is uncertain how they will perform in 2009. However, John gives the impression that Boston’s roster is stocked with older players, much like the San Francisco Giants of last year. As usual in his posts, he avoids much of the truth.
Youkilis, Pedroia and Lowrie (who produced despite playing much of last season with a fractured wrist) are far from old in baseball terms. Ditto for Jason Bay and Jacoby Ellsbury. Drew has several good years left, though his health is an issue. However, Boston has Lars Anderson waiting to take over at first base, so the Sox can move Youkilis to third as early as 2010. Boston is loaded with highly regarded outfield prospects, the closest to major league ready being Josh Reddick, who could take over for Drew in right field. In addition, Boston has two catching prospects that are future big leaguers in Mark Wagner and Luis Exposito (thought they are two years away from being major league ready).
As for his comments about Smoltz and Saito, obviously he doesn’t recognize that to win it all you need to have depth, and that is what bringing in veterans on short-term deals does. Boston has nine – count ‘em, nine – starters this season in Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, Penny, Smoltz, Buchholz, Bowden and Masterson. The rotation and the bullpen will be among the best in baseball. The bench is deep with Baldelli, Kotsay, Bard and Lugo (yes, Lugo does have value as a utility player).
The bottom line is this: in Theo Epstein’s tenure, Boston’s prospects have a history of producing at the major league level. They have a mix of veterans and young players. Their payroll is positioned to add difference-making players from other teams that are interested in dumping salary. The roster, as is, is deep. The lineup is formidable from top to bottom, with the exception of the catcher’s spot (which has yet to be determined). As I mentioned, the rotation and bullpen are among the best in the game. And the defense is exceptional. Boston is well-positioned for 2009 and the future. The Yankees are improved over 2008, but they had to. The Red Sox didn’t need to do much with their roster.
As for the Yankees being younger and more athletic, good luck with Cano and Jeter as your middle infield, keeping Jorge Posada in one piece behind the plate and keeping Johnny Damon on the field. And I wouldn’t boast of a center field group featuring Melky Cabrera, Nick Swisher and Gardner. First base defense will be dramatically better with Teixeira, but really the Yankees have not gained much on offense by adding Tex and Swisher and losing Abreu and Giambi. The bullpen is suspect without Joba setting the stage for Rivera. I keep hearing about all of these Yankees prospects, but unlike Sox prospects who perform at the major league level, Yankees’ prospects do not have that history in recent years. Every team will get a young guy here and there to do well (such as Joba), but the key is each year having prospects that help at the major league level. The Yankees do have four $100-million plus superstars, but the Red Sox have the better, well-balanced team, which in the end is what is most important.
Jeff
http://www.soxandpinstripes.com
Thanks for the reassuring post, John. I’m superstitious about making bold, trash-talking statements about my teams, especially the Yankees. It’s just an unforgiving game and rarely turns out how you expect it to. And you’re right. Since Alex signed his last contract with us, we’ve done nothing. We missed the playoffs.
I love our team on paper, and the Sox are nothing to write home about. But they’ve been the leader in the clubhouse for a few years now. Of course a LOT of that had to do with Manny, with a little Tito mixed in. But they win on grit. And even though they’re a little banged up and a lot older this upcoming season, the grit factor has me a little worried. Not a lot, but some. And of course I haven’t forgotten the Rays. Maybe the other teams will take them as seriously as the Yankees did last season and they won’t break out at the gate again.
I still worry (not as much as Doreen), but I feel very comfortable going to battle on a daily basis on the projected opening day roster.
Jorge has always been a bull dog when dealing with injuries. He was never on the dl until last year! A few years back when his nose was broken he missed a handful of games. True he is facing a task coming back from shoulder surgery, but lets not make it like he is always injuried.
Great post. The thing about how A-Rod has worked out so far needs a little clarification though. A-Rod’s time here has coincided with a lot of other expensive but questionable player investments.
Has A-Rod put the team on his shoulders and single-handedly carried them to the title? No. Should he have to? Again, no. That’s kinda what all the other players are for. Its a team game.
Lack of a world series title since the 2000 season is not all on A-Rod … he’s been pretty close to his career numbers all along. Other ‘investments’ have not panned out, however, and they outnumber him by a significant margin.
I won’t mention specific players in order to protect their identities (ha!) and bypass all the lengthy and deservedly embittered rants about each of their performance. Except for Carl Pavano of course.
Like Teixiera (and Damon to an extent) snatching A-Rod from Boston’s grasp when he was acquired sure was nicely done.
True, Jennifer, but this is 2009 Posada, not 1999 Posada. Every player reaches a point in his career when he can’t rebound from injuries, especially a catcher with a shoulder problem.
Ray — Interesting that you’re from Farmington. A friend of mine lives up there and goes to U. Farmington. I’ll be up there next wkend actually. Small world. (She is a rabid Sox fan FWIW)
The last time I looked, ARod doesn’t pitch. Maybe if he pitched as well the Yankees might have won the World Series. Now with Tex in his prime vs Giambi who wasn’t and who couldn’t field either there is a plus for NYY! Posada back is a plus. Cano back to 2007 form is a plus. Jeter w/o a broken wrist is a plus. Swisher vs Abreu is a plus in my book as well because of better defense & more pop. Abreu had his moments, but defense wasn’t one of them. CF is a plus as well IMO, because Melky will be better & so will Gardner. So here is a tally:
+ SP – CC vs Moose
+ SP – AJ vs Pettite
+ SP – Wang vs Wang/Ponson
+ SP – Joba vs IPK/Joba/Pavano
+ SP – Aceves/Hughes vs Karstens/Hughes/Rasner/Aceves/Igawa
- CL – Mo (Maybe a bit down from last year)
SU – Bruney
+ LHP- Marte vs Henn/No One
Pen (Unchanged but probably better w/o <6 inning starts)
+ C – Posada/Molina vs Molina/IRod
+ 1B – Tex vs Giambi/Duncan/Betemit
+ 2B – Cano
+ SS – Jeter
+ 3B – ARod (w/Tex)
+ OF – Swisher/Nady vs Abreu
+ OF – Melky/Gardner
OF – Damon
+ DH – Matsui/Nady/Damo
Plus, the Yankees probably aren’t done yet. And these are changes over an 89 win team who won the head to head vs BSox & TB!
I couldn’t agree more with Jeff on this one…i must have missed the part where MVP’s were coming out of our farm system. Where is this “young home-grown talent” everyone is trying to discuss? LF, RF, 1B, 3B, C, SS, and 2 SPs worth about $40 million next year are all bought or FAR PAST their prime. The CF situation is so grim that the Yanks are actually reconsidering Melky Cabrera, such quality ‘home grown’ talent that he was sent back to the minors to rot in favor of a .220 hitter with a .283 OBP.
The Red Sox meanwhile have a 25 year old lefty who put up better AL numbers than Sabathia did last year, is a playoff STUD, and is home grown. They have a home grown 2B they JUST inked to a very undervalued long-term deal coming off an AL MVP award/Gold Glove/Silver Slugger, and also extended Youk at far below market value after a Gold Glove and almost winning his own MVP. Lowrie and Ellsbury have performed in the Postseason as well as during the season, Masterson has shown signs, and Buchholz threw a no-hitter.
The Red Sox also traded a useless backup CF who performed terribly in Boston for a top-notch setup man in Ramon Ramirez to improve their bullpen even more. The Red Sox are “older and more injury prone”??!?!?! How do 3 players in Ortiz, Lowell, and Varitek make that case? The Yankees have Matsui, Damon, and our own ‘catcher’ in Posada who is locked up 3 more years and may not even be able to perform at the position we paid him to play.
Meanwhile, our young pitchers Hughes, Kennedy, Brackman, Sanchez, JB Cox, Mark Melancon, and Joba have ALL had MAJOR arm surgeries or missed time at the Major League level due to injuries. Even our “home-grown” players cannot stay healthy ALREADY, and aside from Joba have proven NOTHING at the ML level.
Cano is coming off of his worst season, one so terrible that he barely reached base 30% of the time, and dropped his avg. 35 POINTS+ for the 2nd straight season (.342, .306, .271). The “next Rod Carew” was suddenly trade bait, suspect of even being an All-Star caliber player, and questioned for a lack of maturity and work ethic.
The Red Sox “terrible” offseason included obtaining a top of the line RP, inking their 2 BEST home-grown MVP caliber studs long-term at EXCELLENT prices, and picking up SP depth that could pay dividends after the all-star break. Schilling’s guts and experience won out over his weakening stuff in past years, and Smoltz (one of the greatest postseason pitchers of our generation) could do the same.
The difference is the Red Sox were 1 game from the World Series last year, and have young position-player stars on the rise more and more every day.
Our Yankees finished in 3rd place, missed the playoffs, and lost a 20-game winner, our most clutch postseason pitcher, our most consistent hitter, and our biggest left-handed power threat on OBP guy. We had to do MUCH more to compete for the playoffs than a team who was 1 swing from making it there even with Beckett at only 75%.
Not to mention our all-world closer is a few years from bowing out…while the Red Sox have a young home-grown STUD fireballer for a decade more…unless Jobe moves out of the rotation and into the Closer role when Mo retires…the Yankees are in big trouble. That would also add ANOTHER big rotation hole to fill…and by then Jeter, Damon, Nady, Posada, and Matsui will all either be retired, gone, or virtually useless…either way trouble is on the horizon in the Bronx unless Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes, Melancon, Joba, and Brackman all turn into quality ML players and manage to stay healthy.
Wang (yeah yeah I know, he’s not an ace) is often forgotten when Yankee/Sox homegrown success is discussed. When did the last homegrown Boston player have back to back 19 win seasons and finish above 3rd in CY voting while pitching for the Sox? Lester is the real deal but the un-Ace gets too little love.
Hey there everyone, and thanks for all the great feedback on my pinch hitter post today.
I did want to clarify one point that a number of you have correctly flagged up– my comment about A Rod. I was on a tight word count and clearly couldn’t make the point I was trying to make.
A Rods personal performance has obviously been great– at least until Oct. But– and this was my point– what seemed like a Yankee knock-out blow over the Sox that winter has obviously not turned out that way since, with two titles in Boston and none in the Bronx. In other words, these moves are amazing for all the reasons listed, but of course guarantee nothing…
“A Rods personal performance has obviously been great—at least until Oct. But—and this was my point—what seemed like a Yankee knock-out blow over the Sox that winter has obviously not turned out that way since, with two titles in Boston and none in the Bronx.”
There is a flawed premise to this view: that there is such a thing as a “knock out blow” over another team in baseball in the first place. There are only upgrades and downgrades.
In acquiring ARod, the Yankees made a huge upgrade and prevented the Sox from getting that upgrade. The same thing happened with Teixeira. Yes, there is never a guarantee that acquiring a great player will bring a championship, but it only improves your chances.
It’s not as if the Yankees acquired players who the Sox coveted and who were terrible fits with the Yankees. ARod was a great fit, as he could play 3B and we had no 3B after Boone got injured. Teixeira was also a great fit, as Giambi’s contract was up. Those are the main reasons the Yankees acquired these players – because they were great additions to the team. That the Sox wanted these players too was just the icing.
And I will never agree with the view that ARod is always a non-factor in the playoffs. He has good, bad, and mediocre playoff series, just like every other player with significant playoff experience.
stephen
if your such a hater….go support another team
Very nice post. I agree with everything but your view on the Sox. I wouldn’t say that had a bad off season. They just didn’t need to fill any big holes. Their only must-fill position is catcher. While Tex would’ve been a great pickup for them, it wasn’t a need. So instead of throwing money at Lowe, they signed a bunch of guys to gain depth. While our line-up and starting rotation on Opening Day might be more impressive, our bench guys are lacking. Last year, I put up with “If only we didn’t lose Arod for those few weeks in spring,” “If only Wang wasn’t out for half the season,” and “If only Joba didn’t hurt his arm.” The Sox had injuries similar to ours but they had the depth to deal with it.
What is more concerning – the Yanks losing CC for two months or the Sox losing Beckett for two months?
Either way, I’m praying our big guys stay healthy for the season. That would almost be a guarantee of top spot in the East.
GreenBeret7
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 am
Is this going to be Cain vs Able, Part II? With brothers like this, who needs enemies?
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....rot-1.html
Read it an weep, Dave.
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Wow, that is a disgrace. I’d say Mark is more sinned against than sinning, here.
^^^Well-written, balanced post. But if Teixeira’s presence really has freed the Yankees to pass on the folly of getting a washed up 36-year old to play CF, just because of his OBP, then they did “need” Teixeira.
And yet the Yankees still don’t have anyone that can steal a base besides Damon. A-rod does it sometimes but yeah. Seriously we don’t need guys that hit .300 and can get 30 HR’s to fill in every slot of our lineup. We don’t need Manny. We want to get younger. Cheaper too but that’s going to be nearly damn impossible. We already have a DH and another outfielder is suicide. Unless we deal Swisher/Nady and get Manny like really cheap then I’ll be all for it. But it’ll have to be 15 million at most if I were the Yankees which Manny wouldn’t accept anyways. The Rays have NO ONE hitting .300 They try so much harder than any team I have ever seen to win. They constantly steal bases and all they’ll need is 2 base hits for a run. The Yankees got younger but no one can run!Swisher AND Tex can’t run! I don’t want another big hitter. I want a Carl Crawford type of player. But seeing as the Yankees being the Yankees, I doubt it’ll happen.
Brett Gardner takes offense to your statements.
Don’t know if this post will get in but it is about time we stop the whole Red Sox develop better talent stuff, because it simply is not true. The Red Sox currently have Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Lowrie as home-grown everyday talent and have traded home-grown talent to acquire Lowell. Assuming they bring back Varitek, that would also qualify as home-grown talent. They got JD Drew and Big Papi as free agents, as well as Jason Bay (they got Manny as a free agent and traded him for Bay, this is why I count Bay as a FA acquisition). On the pitching front, they have Lester, Bucholz, Paplebon and Masterson as “significant” home-grown talent and they traded home-grown talent for Beckett. They got Wakefield, Matsusaka, Smoltz, Penny and Saito as “significant” FA acquisitions over the years. On the Yankees front, they have Jeter, Cano, Posada and Cabrera/Gardner as home-grown talent on the field, and they traded home-grown talent to acquire A-Rod and Xavier Nady. They have Matsui, Damon and Texeira as free agents. On the pitching front, they have Wang, Joba, Phil Hughes and Mariano and Veras as “significant” home-grown talent and they signed CC, AJ and Bruney as free agents but have not traded any home-grown talent for pitching. This analysis does not take into account any draft picks given up for FA signings and what the quality of those draft picks have been. It also does not take into account an evaluation of the farm systems, because until you have players prove themselves in the majors for a few years, anything is possible, from injuries to bad performance to trades, etc.
The bottom line is that if Cano and Melky have bounce-back years and Posada, Joba and Wang come back from injury to perform at their regular level, you really have a core group of players on the 25 man roster that are home-grown talents or were traded for using home-grown talent (A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Joba, Hughes, Veras, Mo, Melky, Gardner and Wang) that is comparable to the Red Sox (Pedroia, Youkilis, Beckett, Lowrie, Lowell, Varitek, Bucholz, Masterson and Ellsbury), so I just don’t get this whole “over the last ten years the yankees farm system has been terrible” stuff. Any comments?
What I find interesting about your post is that apparently you are the male version of me. I live in San Francisco, I’m a die hard Yankee fan (obviously), I’m married to a Red Sox fan, I was at the Jeter flip game (as was my husband but this was 3 years before we met), and we are still battling over the fandom of our son who is only 7 months old. We’ve agreed that the next team to win the series gets the kid.