Astros: No room for Pettitte
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- January
- 23
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Keeping in mind that everybody in baseball is flexible with the truth, Astros owner Drayton McLane said today that his team has little interest in Andy Pettitte.
“We’re pretty well set,” he told the Associated Press. “I don’t see us entering into the negotiations.”
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on Friday, January 23rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Wow, no one wants this all time great Yankee?
What year is this?
The yankees do.
2009
So Andy’s choices are Yankees or retirement. I like our odds now Andy will have to take less or beg for the 10 mil not a smart move.
I think everybody wants this all-time great Yankee. It’s a matter of price. Didn’t he turn down a 1-year, $10 million deal? And what was his ERA in the second half???
Andy, Andy, Andy……
You know, if you type, say or read a name too much, it starts to look funny.
Andy, Andy, Andy, Andy, Andy.
Yup.
I’m really, really, really getting a little weary of Andy. Not Andy himself, mind you – he’s really not said a thing – but the entire $10-million opera. I wish the fat lady would sing already.
There is no shame for Andy Pettitte to call the Yankees and say, if the offer is still valid, I’m willing to pitch. And they can concoct whatever story they want to to save Andy’s pride, and everyone will applaud, and we can all just mooooooove on. Please????????
I really do not care if Pettitte makes 16 million or .6 million. I just hope he comes back.
http://www.northjersey.com/spo....._deal.html
I don’t get Andy, but whatever. I also don’t get the Yankees. I agree with their position on Andy, but they can’t possibly be serious about a Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves/Johnson competition. Didn’t they learn anything from rushing Hughes? The kid is going to be a stud, but he needs more seasoning in AAA. It’s ridiculous to put him in this situation again. Kennedy didn’t suck enough last year? Aceves is a long man waiting to happen – though I suppose it’s possible that he could pitch decently enough until Phil is ready. He wouldn’t have to be great, just not awful.
As to the Astros, yay! Andy will have to go market himself aggressively to other suitors soon enough if he wants to play ball this year…….and he’s still not getting $10.5 from anyone else. At this point, it is all about stubborn pride.
Did you know that Andy and Nady use the same same letters? nady, andy, nady, andy, nady, andy. Hah! I’ve got it. They need to get rid of Nady so they can keep Andy. You can’t have two guys with the same letters. You can’t!!!!
(I’m really tired. I spent a good half hour sitting in a backless cabinet trying to plug a phone cord into a jack that’s blocked by an immovable piece of furniture. I should add the cabinet is about 18″ wide and 30″ tall. I was not successful.)
Maybe they could give Andy a title? You know, like in the corporate world when they don’t want to give you (or they don’t have) more money, they give you a title, a promotion. What title or promotion could the Yankees give Andy that would make up for the loss of $6 million?
Since Andy doesn’t care about money, maybe he’ll offer to work for the ML minimum since he only resents the Yankees when it comes to money.
Wheres that mystery team that offered him 3 years? Maybe Andy can sign with the LI DUCKS.
” What title or promotion could the Yankees give Andy that would make up for the loss of $6 million?”
how about assistant ace, vice president of aceness, co- captain, pitcher captain…
how about we just kill him and have the yankees wear a black armband all year?
i forgot the “just kidding”.
Andy Pettite: Sr. Starting Pitcher.
That should do it.
randy 1 -
No, you didn’t!
Is there room for a black armband? Last year they had to squeeze one in between the all-star game and the final year patches.
I like Assistant Ace. Or the Ace of Diamonds.
True Yankee Pitcher Emeritus.
Nick in SF -
I think that’s a keeper.
Repost from previous subject
GreenBeret7
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Randy, I can definately agree that the pressure that the organization, the media and especially the fans put on the players is a crushing pressure that no other team deals with.
It’s a wonder that they have done as well over the last 14 years as they have. The mistakes they have made the last few years really began in 2003 when they let Pettitte, Clemens and Wells walk without having adequate replacements.
You could even go back one year earlier when they let the heart of their bullpen leave in Mendoza, Nelson and Stanton. They started giving the take it or leave it offers and then had to scramble to patch things together. They’ve been patching a pitching staff ever since. Hopefully, that phase is over.
Why wouldn’t Andy want 10 mil to pitch in this rotation? If he comes back the Yanks have the best rotation in baseball hands down.
Al: because the rotation would be just as good if they gave him 13 mil? Or 6 mil? So his primary motivation doesn’t seem to be wanting to be part of the best rotation in baseball at any salary.
I think this is all a waiting game to see who will cave in first. Both sides are aware of the possibilities out there for one another and in the end I think Pettite will re-sign because both need each other. Neither has a better option out there.
I like “true yankee pitcher emeritus” but it sounds like he might have tenure.
how long do we have to keep him with that title ?
Well normally like politics, religion and baseball don’t mix – BUT Andy is a deeply religious guy.
I would guess as a devout church man he tithes 10% of his salary to his religion or charity. Reducing his salary from 16 mil to 10 mil – his church takes a 600 thousand dollar hit.
The Yankees could give Andy his 10 mil – donate another 1-2 mil to his church or favorite charity. For the Yanks the extra money is a write-off. For Andy it’s a “save face”.
Just a thought…
gb7-
even though i get on cashman, he really does have the hardest gm job because he has to make the playoffs.
Isn’t the beauty of an emeritus-type title that it’s kind of a life-long title? So, he can retire after one year and keep the title.
Andy turned down 10mil…and some of you think the yankees will offer him the 10mil again. you must be dreaming
Andy is the biggest phony in baseball.if he didnt care about $$$ and said he wants to pitch in the new stadium.why was his dickhead agents the hendricks bros putting out fake rumors of a 3/36 offer
if the yanks resign him then sweet…but im sick of hearing about this con
Have Damon call Andy. Seemed to work with CC and AJ. Johnny’s like the Pitcher Whisperer.
Boof Henderson
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Andy turned down 10mil…and some of you think the yankees will offer him the 10mil again. you must be dreaming
Andy is the biggest phony in baseball.if he didnt care about $$$ and said he wants to pitch in the new stadium.why was his dickhead agents the hendricks bros putting out fake rumors of a 3/36 offer
if the yanks resign him then sweet…but im sick of hearing about this con
————————————————————
Well, at least there are always people like you around to show him what true class is.
I feel like he said something very similar to that days ago … Is this really todays news?
“Well normally like politics, religion and baseball don’t mix – BUT Andy is a deeply religious guy.”
going by, “if its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter heaven”, than maybe andy should give 90% and keep 10%.
i’m being flip, but when someone is making 10 million a year would be giving only 10 % be the religious thing to do. i would think that at least 50 % would be more impressive.
on a serious note , i don’t think andy emeritus is having a religious dilemma here. i think he just wants more money because he thinks he deserves it.
Hey Andy, what’s 10% of zero? Sign a contract!
Sir Andrew report for duty.
GreenBeret7 you must think your a better fan than others.i know one thing for sure Andy has no class.and beccause i think he is a phony..doesnt make me or others less a fan of the yankees
Boof,
Its because thas what agents do, thats their job – they lie and so do GMs and owners. But i agree with you – pettitte is being idiotic. He clearly has no plan in mind if he doesnt go back to the yanks. I cant even comprehend what he is thinking now that he has one offer on the table in late january. I hope he realizes he is no longer in his late 20s but towards the tail end of his career – he must realize this as he has been talking about retiring for at leaast five years now.
He will be a very capable fourth starter and 10.5 mil in this market is a solid offer. If pettitte does not believe that, he should just open his eyes and look at the market for him – it does not exist. Whatever figure pettitte has in his mind is irrelevant, it is the market that dictates what a player is worth and the market is saying that the yanks offer is more than fair. He can accept the yanks offer or retire but the longer he waits, the worse he looks in NY.
“Hey Andy, what’s 10% of zero? Sign a contract!”
thanks nick, that’s what i meant to say.
So Andy totally lost a large portion of the leverage he (thought he) had.
Nice going.
GB it should not have taken 5 years of free agent patching to finally put together another stable rotation especially when wang came in out of the farm system to become one of our best starters.
I don’t know if this was posted yet, but here’s a Q/A with Joba:
Q. Do you pamper yourself?
A. I take care of my skin. When I’m back home, I’ll get facials and sometimes manicures. I’m a big Bath and Body Shop fan. I like to smell good all of the time.
http://www.theindependent.com/.....932088.txt
Just end this nonsense and come back already, Andy.
BTW, MLBTR is reporting that some new, more positive medicals may be circulating on Sheets’, thus increasing teams’ interest in the oft injured lad greatly…
“New Medical Report Reassures Sheets’ Suitors?
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 23 at 6:05pm CST]
SI.com’s Jon Heyman has heard from MLB executives that a new record of Ben Sheets’ medical history “may have sparked some renewed interest in the talented pitcher.”
Sheets provided teams with updated information about his health. Heyman learned that previous health reports were not “debilitating,” but they had issues. The Rangers, Mets and Brewers are presumably among the teams currently looking over the new information.”
If this is correct, there is no way anyone is getting Sheets on a 1 year deal. New potential suitors will probably jump into the mix and he’ll get at least 3. The Yankees making such a commitment to him robs them of much/any rotation flexibility over the next few years and doesn’t give Hughes much of a chance to become the staple of the rotation that smart people all know he still can be, in time.
Methinks it’s time for the Sheets Crew to wave the white flag. The Yankees are not signing any pitcher to a 3 year deal, I don’t care who it is. I say Andy is the answer, like him or not.
MLB Network is showing 2001 World Series highlights and every time I see them I wonder how come Tony Womack was never that TOny WOmack when we had him.
No surprise with the Houston snub. The Hendricks brothers were using the Astros as leverage and it backfired.
Spring training is only 3 weeks away and teams want their rosters set.
Andy knows where his only real offer is. If or when he signs with the Yankees it will be interesting to hear the reasoning why it took so long.
“they can’t possibly be serious about a Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves/Johnson competition. Didn’t they learn anything from rushing Hughes?”
Betsy – Agreed on what a disaster that would likely be, but no worries….in the end, I think it kinda has the ring of previous gems like “Bubba Crosby is our starting center fielder.”
I guess like Carl Pavano Sheets went to enough doctors until he found one that would say what he wanted them to say. You cant just disregard all the medical and suddenly there is one that says he is ok.
gaaah….just the mere mention of Tony Woe-mack’s name still makes me throw up in my mouth a little, lol. What a disaster he was.
And is MLB Network EVER gonna show a World Series that was good for us?! Unfortunately I don’t get it (I probably do, but I don’t have a digital cable box and my remote won’t let me enter 3 digits) but every time someone mentions it in here it seems like they are either showing 2001, 2003, 2004….yuck! Are they just as anti Yankee as ESPN?
I would like Pettitte to come back however I don’t agree that having a competition for the 5th spot in the rotation would be a disaster.
Just because Hughes was injured last year and Kennedy was ineffective doesn’t mean those circumstances will without a doubt happen again this year.
If that’s the case then the Yankees should also expect that everything that happened last year is going to happen again this year as well and just call it a season today and prepare for 2010.
I’m just not of the belief that Nady or Swisher alone brings a good pitcher back in return. Maybe Swisher or Nady plus another pitcher or two gets you a good pitcher but Nady or Swisher alone isn’t getting them a good pitcher.
Doreen are you okay?
Darn it is difficult to pack for one stinking night!!
“I guess like Carl Pavano Sheets went to enough doctors until he found one that would say what he wanted them to say. You cant just disregard all the medical and suddenly there is one that says he is ok.”
I had the exact same sentiment earlier in the off season with the opposite set of circumstances. Sheet went down with a minor injury in september and reports came out in january saying he had all sort of other chronic injuries. Just because a report came out in january, doesnt mean the circumstances surrounding his last injury should be totally disregarded nor should the fact that no report came out between sept and january that claimed that sheets was in such bad state of health as the report in january. Now, of course, some new thing comes out only three weeks later saying that the reports earlier this month were overblown or inaccurate and that he is in better shape.
With those new reports, the yanks likely lose any advantage that would have in signing sheets to a one year/6 mil deal that he may have commanded with the complete lack of interest earlier in the off season. That was actually a positive that sheets had little interest because his value sunk so low that he would have likely been a steal. of course, every one in here made it out to seem that because of the complete lack of interest sheets would not even be worth a 6 mil gamble but the yanks should not always go on whatever the flavor of the week is at that time, we will never get a bargain if we play that game.
Raymag,
Of course, there is never no doubt that we will have injury or ineffectiveness this season but there is the yanks should also never rely on the notion that every one will stay healthy either because injuries happen so consistently each season. The point is neither situation is certain but the yanks should build a team that will have no problems overcoming injury or ineffectiveness from a select few players. The way the rotation looks right now, one injury to any of the top three for a significant length of time will severely impact the team as a whole which is not good. oNE more pitching signing and we are in good shape to overcome an injury which should be expected at this point.
Jennifer -
I’m fine.
Have fun. I hate packing. I hate having to choose what I’m going to wear days in advance.
My father teased me that I should have bought 2 wedding dresses, because he never once saw me go out with the same outfit I had on originally.
“Just because Hughes was injured last year and Kennedy was ineffective doesn’t mean those circumstances will without a doubt happen again this year.”
raymagnetic-
that’s true, but there’s nothing saying that taking another poorly thought out gamble with the same pitchers won’t turn out just as badly.
let hughes work his way through triple a and come up at the right time which may not even be next year. kennedy? he needs to start over. he’s not even close to being a major league pitcher.
and that rush of joba into the starting rotation ended up in injury just like i said it would. joba is no lock on having a healthy year because of the way they used him last year.
where have you been ? i actually miss the battles with you and whozat. gb7 can call me an idiot ,but he really doesn’t mean it. you and whozat on the other hand totally believed it, and it was great fun seeing all our predictions play out as the season went on
( especially since i was mostly right for 2008).
i do for the record think that hughes is going to be a good pitcher someday.
Doreen- Exactly. I’m thinking do I wear a dress, or jeans with a nice sweater. It is so difficult!!
BBB,
I guess there was no winning with the sheets situation. Earlier this month, no team had interest and therefore, most in here wanted me to believe that because of the complete lack of interest sheets would not even be worth a one year gamble. Now, he has some interest because of some more bogus reports about his health and the yanks should not go after him because he has a lot of interest and he is not worth the kind of contract he may command with that many teams after him. So at what point was sheets worth it for the yanks to sign – clearly not when no team wanted him and not now that a few teams have interest? Not when a report comes out saying his health is a concern and not when a report comes out saying his health may not be as big a concern as teams may think? I agree, signing sheets to a three year deal is a huge mistake especially with all the conflicting reports about his health but i think a one year deal with incentives would have been a perfectly acceptable deal for him.
Jennifer -
See, I would pack BOTH and decide right before getting dressed. How do you know what kind of mood you’ll be in tomorrow??????
Good luck!
Enough of that ingrate Pettite. Sign Sheets now. 2yr 18mil with extra incentives if he stays healthy plus a team option for a third year.
randy,
You and I are in complete agreement. i ALSO predicted many of the things that came true last year – i thought hughes was rushed into the rotation and that would be severely detrimental to the team and his career. I thought that kennedy was clearly not ready for the majors last year and still is not ready and the organization was expecting from too much out of those two players and got burned because of it which makes sense. Also, melky to me was never going to last as a starting centerfielder at the major league level. Fans and the organization alike had far too much confidence in him going forward and he is really nothing more than a backup outfielder on the yankees.
Joba will not be able to pitch any more than 150 innings next year so relying on him to fill a rotation spot for a season is a HUGE mistake and will only end in injury – he needs to be put in the fifth spot and replaced sometime after the all star break so that he is ready for the playoffs if need be. If Joba is in the fifth spot, aceves should serve as his backup and start the season off in the bullpen with the ability to fill in for spot starts and injuries and long relief in the meantime. Hughes should leave camp headed for scranton. Putting him in the fifth spot in the rotation proves to everyone that the yanks learned nothing for last years very large mistakes. Hughes can be brought up sometime later in the season.
Kennedy is not ready at all and may never be a starter at the major league level. If the yanks do the right thing which is what i wrote above, they only have one choice – sign another starter to fill the fourth spot, put joba in the fifth, leave aceves as a backup in the pen and keep hughes and kennedy in the minors. Who they sign is important but they must sign somebody and preferably for a one year deal. Pettitte is obviously an idea fit but clearly he is taking stupidity to a whole new level by pretending he has another choice besides taking the yanks 10.5 mil offer to try to present the illusion of leverage when in reality, its the yanks or retire and we all know he does not want retirement.
Doreen- Thanks!! I had it down to jeans and a sweater now I might have to pack both.
Give Andy his 12-13 Million already, just don’t take it out of the Yankees treasure chest-Let his so called high priced friends each chip in one million of their “hard earned” money.
Between A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui, Rivera, Sabathia, Burnett, Teixeira, that will raise 9 million, and then Steinbrenner can throw in the other 3-4 million, saving some leftovers for a Juan Cruz set-up reliever, an all purpose utility player, etc.
I wonder who got paid off to release a “better” interpretation of his medical records??
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....osts/43741
Also, aj burnett is certainly no shoe-in for a 200 inning season. Getting 180 innings out of AJ would be a blessing considering the fact that he has never had 2 consecutive 200 inning seasons and he is 32. It is reasonable to expect 200 innings out of CC and wang but no more than 180 out of AJ. Sign pettitte and thats almost guaranteed to be 200 out of the fourth spot and possibly 150 out of Joba and 70 out of aceves. Add those up and that is 1,000 innings out of the six starters. Aceves could easily fill in for an injury to someone before taking over for joba after the all star break while hughes can fill in for an injury to one of the top four after the all star break giving us at least a decent replacement for injury at any given time during the season. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. Having two guys who are guaranteed to give you less than 150 innings in the last two spots with very little depth is a disaster waiting to happen.
I think everyone agrees Hughes should start the season in the minors, the question is: do Yankees fans have enought patience to leave him there for half or 2/3 of the season?
Seems to me that’s what best for him at this point of his career.
Yankee Trader-
This Guy:
http://www.luds.net/galeries/Dr%20Riviera.gif
Andy please stop I overvaluing yourself and re-sign
Yankeetrader – yea right!! That’ll be the day…
And also, there was a big article 3 weeks ago that discussed how bad his records were being interpeted and then, today an article on the good shape he may be in. I would take both of those with a grain of salt or not really consider them at all. The funny thing is that teams are actually changing their interest in sheets around the same time these are coming out. Are these reports serving as explanations for the changing interest in sheets or are they actually impacting the interest? I hope it is the former. This whole sheets situation is very, very strange. i dont quite understand how the reports coming out about his health have changed so dramatically over the course of the last six months while sheets has not even stepped foot onto a baseball diamond and played.
I didnt buy the reports in early january and I certainly take the new article about all this even less seriously. The fact is, there is no reason to think sheets will not start spring training on time and nothing about him considering or putting off any sort of surgery so IMO, all of this is very, very overblown merely because of his history, being injures in the last few weeks of the season and his status as a free agent. Sheets is probably only slightly more likely to go down with an injury next year as most other players in the league. However, i would never sign him for any more than a one year deal because the older he gets the more likely it is that he will go down with an injury.
I’d rather see more pictures of them not being careful with the trophies than discuss Andy’s situation again. It really is tiresome.
TGFizeek,
Its not about the patience of the yankees and certainly not about the patience of yankee fans in regards to whether or not hughes goes to and stay in triple A for the year. It is about the yanks signing another starter to actually fill out the rotation with solid, capable major league pitching talent. If they have CC, Wang, AJ, Pettitte and Joba lined up to start with aceves around to fill in for injury and for joba, we will have the luxury of allowing hughes to go back to the minors to resume his accent to stardom.
But if the yanks continue this insane tradition they started last season of relying on unproven starters to compete for the last spot with little depth on hand, then, hughes may be once again forced back into the majors even when he is not quite ready. It is up to the yankee organization and cashman to determine Hughe’s fate because despite what many may believe, the decision to sign another starter this season will have a big impact on Hughes development as the decision to not sign another starter had on Hughes last season. Cashman also says how much he values or over-values young yankee talent but so far, he has yet to prove that he knows how to handle their development. Once again, he has a shot to make things right.
I’m just hoping the Andy “will he or won’t he be pitching for the Yankees in 2009″ drama ends soon.
Retire, come back-whatever.
The Knicks little rooster. Not too bad
Folks, Sheets is not going to be a Yankee. The Mets and the Rangers at least, and probably more teams, are already interested in him, and he is going to get a substantial multi-year deal.
The Yanks chose CC and AJ, they are not going to do a long term deal with Sheets too.
Pettitte remains the one free agent starter that answers all their needs. He can be counted on to pitch 200+ innings, at a league average or better ERA, he’s left-handed, he’ll sign a one-year deal so that next year the path is clear for Hughes or whoever is ready in the minors, and he has pitched and pitched well in the AL East and in big pressure games.
Obviously, this is worth something to the Yanks. The Yanks must think so, a number of reports say the Yanks remain focused on signing him. This makes sense, because Cashman is far from stupid. I’m sure he sees the advantages Pettitte delivers better than I do, and I see them pretty clearly.
The question is of course how much the Yanks pay for it.
I am constantly amused by the people commenting here that get all torqued off by how much players make. They seem to take it personally that players make ungodly sums of money. As for me, I could care less what the Yanks pay Andy. Believe me, the Yanks have plenty. How they divide it up between Andy and Hank and Hal is of no interest to me at all.
But whether Andy is worth $6MM a year, or $8MM, or $16MM, the Yanks need to sign him, because they obviously aren’t comfortable with Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy, Coke et al.
The Yanks, unlike most teams, can’t afford to go into a season with a competitive team. They aren’t going to sell $2,500 seats with a competitive team. They have to win. That’s why they want Andy, because he can be counted on. He reduces their risk.
That is worth enormous amounts of money to them.
This is not the case of a young player the team controls holding out. In that case, the team knows the player is going to come around and agree to the teams price. The Yanks don’t control Andy, and Andy has a credible threat of retiring or going somewhere else.
The Yanks are still talking to Andy, and Andy has rejected $10MM. So everything considered, the Yanks must be willing to pay him more, or they wouldn’t be talking.
The question is only one of price. IMO they’ll get it done.
Don’t know if this was mentioned earlier today but what’s up with that girls basketball game in Texas last night.
One team beat the other….score….100-0
Score at half was 59-0 and the winning team in the second half kept putting on a full court press and shooting 3’s.
Against a team that included special needs kids.
Winning team today wants to forfeit because they are so embarassed that they were idiots…..I say too little too late.
ray,
What’re you smoking?
Trying to convince the Lakers to forfeit that Christmas Day win? J/K
In the high school game, it was the coaches who were being unsportsmanlike. Whooping and hollering on the sidelines.
Dear God make it stop!
I can’t read one more Andy Pettitte post.
He’s either gonna sign or not sign. We’ll know within a few weeks.
At this point what else is there to say about it that hasn’t been said a thousand times this winter?
So when will they sign Sheets ?
Guys guys guys, Andy doesn’t have to come to the Yankees or retire; you’re forgetting that Andy is still pondering the Astros offer! AND he may lean to that 3 for 36 if he wants to pitch longer…. Scott Boras, the Hendricks brothers most certainly are not. Although maybe they are if we were to ask Jason Varitek.
I am so sick of the Andy talk. We all know he will end up signing for like 12 million in a couple of weeks. Lets talk about getting together for a Yankee game. I already got one response on my site. Check me out on Yanks and more guys and let me know when you want to do this.
“The Yanks are still talking to Andy, and Andy has rejected $10MM. So everything considered, the Yanks must be willing to pay him more, or they wouldn’t be talking.”
Wave,
The thing that you dont really take into account is: where is pettitte’s leverage coming from? Thats just it – he does not have any. Retirement is not a credible threat because every one knows he does not want to do that and will not just because he doesnt get offered his 2007 salary. I am sure he realized 10.5 mil is better than 0 mil which is what he will be making in retirement. And he has not and will not receive a higher offer from any other club. Therefore, he has no bargaining chips – no other interest, no better offer and he has stated from the beginning he wants to come back to NY so its not like the yanks are trying to convince him of something he does not want to do. The yanks are talking but that does not mean they are raising their offer much above 10.5 mil because why should they? Yea, winning is worth a lot to them and they want andy back but that do not want to pay him more than they think he deserves which is what they already offered and they have no reason to.
Pettitte is pretending their is a solid market out there for him when there is not. The market has dictated pettitte’s value and pettitte clearly holds himself in higher regard and puts himself at higher value than the market does and the value he has for himself is not going to get him very far. So it is simple – come back for 10.5 mil or retire. He has already made himself look pretty bad for no good reason as far as I can tell but the fans will still love him when he comes back. They will forgive him for lying about it not being about the money and no one even really cared about the HGH use in the first place as long as he wins. But the longer he waits this thing out for no reason, the worse he looks and the yanks cannot wait around forever for the guy – eventually they will either realize they want to just go with what they have or find the next best option. Pettitte has taken this thing far above and beyond wherever it originally had to go and now, it is time to put the issue to bed already. Either re-sign or retire but the game he is playing is getting old, everyone knows including pettitte that there is no reason that he deserves more than 10.5 mil so just take the money (its not like he will be suffering because of the pay cut or anything with the over 100 mil he has already made).
“The Yanks are still talking to Andy, and Andy has rejected $10MM. So everything considered, the Yanks must be willing to pay him more, or they wouldn’t be talking.”
LOL
m
You guys beat us pretty good but don’t remember it being that bad!!!
Pete,
Seriously. How many “What about Andy” threads have you posted? Three? Four?
And wave you may not care about how the steinbrenners and andy split up the money but i am pretty sure that hank and hal do care about those little details and they are the ones writing the checks so their opinion matters.
ray,
It wasn’t as close as the score indicated.
C’s are back on track. You showed the Magic who the boss is.
dave, two things.
First, I think you are wrong. But who knows, maybe you aren’t. If the Yanks win the staring contest, and don’t get Andy, then they can pitch Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy and feel all warm and cosy knowing they had the bigger stick.
Second, and more importantly, break up your paragraphs into smaller chunks. It will really help you sell your points. Smaller paragraphs have more pop. They have more zing.
Personally, I’m OK with Hughes and crew. How about you?
Bob,
If you are so sick of reading andy pettitte posts why would you hit the comment button on an andy thread? What did you think we were talking about?
Wait! I came in late…
can we back up to the beginning about this Andy Pettitte thing and rehash so I am up to speed????
Bob,
If you are so sick of reading andy pettitte posts why would you hit the comment button on an andy thread? What did you think we were talking about?
—————————————-
Ummm, because I wanted to say I was sick of the never ending Andy Pettite talk? It’s been beaten to death already.
Although I’d rather read some more posts about him than one of your 5000 word manifestos.
Dave
I disagree with most of what you write about the Andy situation. It’s all been discussed ad nasuem. Just let it play itself out. We will have answers soon.
Wave,
You think I am wrong about which part? How do the yanks win by not getting andy – i think the yanks winning would be andy signing for 10.5 mil right?
I dont like hughes starting at the major league level. I wrote why in a post above. I love hughes enough to realize he should start the season in the minors. i dont think he is ready and i DONT know why after years of waiting and being very patient and baby Hughes with innings limits and pitch counts they all of a sudden decide to throw everything out the window and force him into the rotation just because they need another arm.
It is almost nonsensical to go with Joba, Aceves and Hughes for the last two spots because that is the exact same mistake they made last season. If they do it again, I feel like the yanks have proven they are incapable of learning from their own mistakes. iT may not be the worst thing in the world going with the young guys but it is very risky and it could completely blow up in their face.
I want the yanks to re-sign pettitte and I want it to happen tonight or tomorrow or as soon as humanly possible. If not pettitte, i JUST hope they sign somebody but there are not that many choices left. There is no point saving an extra couple of mil after spending over 400 mil and then, leaving a trapdoor open in which the whole rotation could fall into. One injury in the middle of the season after joba and aceves are both nearing their innings limits and we are screwed. We have hUGHES and an unproven kennedy to fill both of their spots and cover the injured spot in the rotation – so we need geise to step in or someone like that. And then, what if kennedy cant handle starting in the majors or Geise? The whole rotation could fall apart at a time in the season that is most crucial. iTS JUST COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY RISK.
I make my self nauseous with all my spelling mistakes.
That should have been ad nauseum.
Bob,
i GUESS your not that sick of reading posts about pettitte then if you come into a pettitte thread and then, post about pettitte and continue to read other peoples post about the situation. Frankly, it is january and there is not that much going on in baseball to discuss at the moment. There is only so many things to talk about. That is why pete keeps posting about him as do others. Thanks for sharing your opinion which i did not ask for about my posts.
dave,
Thanks for breaking your paragraphs up. Made it a lot easier to read, don’t you think?
Second, I think you just made the case very well why Andy in fact has leverage and why the Yanks will up their offer to him.
BBB, MLB network is not anti-Yankee. They are showing the WS in backwards order. First, replays of 2008, then 2007, soon 2006 ——–take heart, it’s not all Sox. I just got through watching highlights of the 1990 WS. Lou Piniella looked sooooo young and I got a kick out of saying “hey, I remember him” to a lot of the players. It was neat seeing Paul O’Neill and there was a funny story involving Tom Browning. He left game 3 to go to the hospital as his wife went into labor and no one told Lou. Lou got just a tad hot under the collar when he called the pen and was told Browning wasn’t there. The Reds had to ask their announcers, Nuxhall and Brennaman, to make an announcement over the radio asking Browning to come back to the stadium…….Too bad Browning was watching on tv and not listening to the radio, lol.
Also, it’s not so much that I think Phil would be a disaster. I just think for his own good, he would be better served working on FB command (which will come if he stays healthy) and his secondary pitches. He’s close, but close isn’t good enough for the bigs.
Tarheel,
I hope it plays out soon. Who knows how long this thing will go on? He can take it up through spring training if he wants. This has already gone on for far too long. I don’t know how much we can disagree on the situation because a lot of it is just fact at this point but of course, there is some opinion as well.
Re: Dave
A good Yankees fan.
If Nick’s post is going to be about Andy, someone just shoot me now and put me out of my misery.
Wave,
That was just my point of view on the subject. The yanks may feel that going into the season without him is perfectly acceptable and i think they do. Further, they may have someone else in mind if he refuses to take the money. I dont think andy’s offer will go up by much more if any – maybe 12 mil tops.
But what is the point of all this if you are only going to get very little money added on in the end? I just dont see why andy would do all this to damage his reputation for a marginal sum of money. It just seems so unnecessary. And he is almost forcing the yanks to tell him why he doesnt deserve 16 mil which is not hard to do at all. If andy does not want to retire, he doesnt have leverage because he is forced to take whatever the yanks offer him in the end of it all no matter how hard he tries to hold out for more. That is not a good position to be in at the bargaining table.
NYYanksFan January 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
If Nick’s post is going to be about Andy, someone just shoot me now and put me out of my misery.
- – - – - – - – - – -
NYYfan
and what manner of death will you prefer if it retouches the old and battered subject of Joba to start or Joba in the pen?
“If Nick’s post is going to be about Andy, someone just shoot me now and put me out of my misery.”
Nick was threatening to write about Yankee poetry of the 1920s. I’m not completely sure he was serious, though.
Andy or poetry? Which does NYYanksFan choose?
NYYanksFan January 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
If Nick’s post is going to be about Andy, someone just shoot me now and put me out of my misery.
– – – – – – – – – – –
NYYfan
and what manner of death will you prefer if it retouches the old and battered subject of Joba to start or Joba in the pen?
————————————-
I’m hoping for a restrospective about the Old Yankee Stadium.
That would be a nice change of pace.
dave
We disagree on leverage, on motivation, and worth.
We do agree the Yankees are better with him, and it has gone on too long.
Just remember Andy wants to be a Yankee.
“Although I’d rather read some more posts about him than one of your 5000 word manifestos.”
Bob,
I think you meant 500 rather than 5000. I have never written anywhere close to a 5000 word post. Pete would kill me.
Dave
No I think Bob meant 5000. And he also meant “paragraph” not “post.”
j/k again Dave!
dave, I think we’ll see a deal done around $12MM. And again, if Andy’s threat to retire is credible to the Yanks, he does have leverage, for the reasons you name. Not to mention the Yanks are lowballing him at $10MM given that Lowe signed for $60MM/4 years.
People fight over money all the time. You’d be amazed what fights people get into over a few million dollars, even people a lot richer than Andy. I don’t see anything unusual in the situation.
On the bigger front, like you I’d like Andy and the Yanks to come to an agreement. Although I’m more confident than you are about Hughes, I agree with you that having Andy would give our rotation a lot more depth and give us some alternatives in case one of our starters got hurt.
I think the Yanks think that way as well, and will come to some arrangement with Andy fairly soon.
People fight over money all the time. You’d be amazed what fights people get into over a few million dollars, even people a lot richer than Andy. I don’t see anything unusual in the situation.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Yeah, I just had a minor scuffle over a few mil yesterday too. It seems so trivial to me today…
“Yeah, I just had a minor scuffle over a few mil yesterday too. It seems so trivial to me today…”
You’ll probably look back on it and laugh…
The Mets just might sign Rob Mackowiak….
What would Andy think ???
Tarheel,
If pettitte has some leverage then we should probably find out depending on how much he ends up getting. What do you mean by motivation – the yanks or pettittes?
I try to remember andy wants to be a yankee but it is getting very difficult considering that he refuses to give the yanks the slightest discount and even when they offer him by far his highest offer, he still puts it off to wait for a better offer and then, even when none comes along, forces the yanks to renegotiate and possibly, explain the pay cut. i think that pettitte holds himself in far too high regard and does not realize that perhaps, he is not as talented and valuable as he was in his late 20s.
I cant help but get the feeling that pettitte would take an offer from any other club even for the slightest of pay increases. oF course, he would allow the yanks to match it but in the end, considering how much money means to him, it would appear that he would leave the yanks in a heartbeat for more money if they refused to match it. That does not really express any sort of desire to return or passion to pitch in the new park IMO. how long he can continue this charade and not get worried about being left out in the cold in the end is anybodies guess?
Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 10:53 pm
“Yeah, I just had a minor scuffle over a few mil yesterday too. It seems so trivial to me today…”
You’ll probably look back on it and laugh…
- – - – - – - – - – - – -
LOL! good times… good times…
Hey Upstate!
Saw u on here a few days ago. Finger Lakes region?
Poetry please. I’ve always been a fan of Casey at the Bat but that is probably pre-1920’s.
l from BK
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Why wouldn’t Andy want 10 mil to pitch in this rotation? If he comes back the Yanks have the best rotation in baseball hands down.
Nick in SF
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Al: because the rotation would be just as good if they gave him 13 mil? Or 6 mil? So his primary motivation doesn’t seem to be wanting to be part of the best rotation in baseball at any salary.
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Well, if we accept the premise that it being the best rotation in baseball is predicated on his return, then he’s within his rights to demand the 13M, isn’t he?
Not to change the subject or anything but
Reds owner
“Here’s the rest of what he had to say (he didn’t mention him by name — that would be tampering — but it sounds like the Reds still hold out hope on getting Xavier Nady):”
What happened to the left fielder with all the power the Reds were going to get?
Castellini: There is a left fielder, right-handed batter out there. But it’s getting a little late. We’ve tried to fill that spot.
http://news.cincinnati.com/app.....innati.com
Yankees should just bring back Tim Stoddard and call it a day.
Can they fire Lawrence Frank now…seriously you don’t know w/ .2 of a second a catch and shoot is not allowed ?
From Ken Rosenthal:
Get ready to puke.
Here’s a sinister thought: Varitek to the Yankees. The chances probably are slim, but the Yankees need to add a catcher due to their uncertainty over Jorge Posada, who is recovering from shoulder surgery. Varitek, 36, might recoil at the notion of joining the Red Sox’s biggest rival, and the Yankees might prefer to spend on pitching. But because the Yankees already have signed three other Type-A free agents, Varitek would cost them only a fourth-round pick …
Lowe is coming off an excellent season though and pettitte is coming off a career worst. And the braves are absolute morons for signing Lowe to four years. Also, there was a pretty big market for lowe and none for andy so they are hard to compare.
i SAID a million times, i dont mind that andy is all about the money but i mind that he said only weeks before all this that it would not be about the money and all he wanted to do was come back to the yanks and pitch in the new stadium. Then, he proceeded to make it all about the money. There was no reason for him to say that if he knew it was not true and it clearly was not.
He was just trying to make himself look good but now, he looks much much worse because of it. He should have just kept his mouth shut about coming back or said those usual cliche lines about being respected or whatever. i liked mannys comment “gas is up and so am I” more than pettitte’s because unless manny had the courtesy to be honest to the fans. Andy just flatout lied right to our faces which is not the best thing for a man in his position to be doing after all the support he was given. Andy may not owe the yanks a single thing but the yanks dont owe andy any favors either.
Is Ken Rosenthal just making up anything at this point? I thought he was supposed to be credible.
I was wondering the same thing Tolly
So nobody wants to read a post about treasured memories of seeing Andy Pettitte pitch in the old Yankee Stadium? Get me rewrite, stat!
How did posada go from possibly wanting to start in the WBC to reports of his shoulder being an uncertainty within a week??
Signing varitek would be a big waste of money. Any of our current backup catchers could put up just as good numbers as varitek for a fraction of the cost and boras is his agent. And why would we want to give the sox any draft pick – whether it is the fourth round or not? No way do the yanks even consider nevermind sign varitek. I would highly doubt any of this is based on reality.
NYYanksFan
Nicks post is going to be about Moose bars.
Does Ken want me to puke up dinner from last week. I seriously would call Cash and give him a piece of my mind if Jason V was even discussed.
Brad Pitt’s better-looking brother
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Hey Upstate!
Saw u on here a few days ago. Finger Lakes region?
======================================
Mid-Hudson Valley…
Read posts here daily – post here every so often…
Great place to ‘check out’ the opinions !!!
Dave
you are resorting to character assination. Why don’t you post that dribble on a Sox blog. You will get a lot of sympathy there.
dave, look at this from Andy’s point of view.
He thinks he’s worth $16MM. I’m sure he thinks he’s as good as Lowe is, and Lowe got $15MM per year for 4 years. He thinks he’s shown he’ll lay it on the line for the Yanks by pitching through an injury last season. And I’m sure he thinks he’s done his share to build up the franchise value by his work 1996-2001.
So, again, trying to imagine what Andy’s thinking, the Yanks come along and offer him a 37.5% pay cut because he pitched when they needed him last year instead of going on the DL (like another pitcher we might think of) and then make him look bad in front of the fans when he doesn’t want to take it.
Does this make Andy not a Yankee? Does that make Andy a bad guy? Not to me it doesn’t.
When Andy gets on the mound, in some tight spot staring down some Red Sox batter with those hard eyes over the top of his glove, I’m glad he’s out there. I remember a lot of other times when he came through big, and the Yanks came up big, and I’m glad he’s on our team.
I don’t have any doubts Andy is a true Yankee. But the Yanks have to meet him halfway.
dave: Posada’s shoulder was always an uncertainty. He wants to play in the WBC, but per rules of the tournament, he can’t.
I’m not sure what Varitek would do…honestly, I think Molina was a better hitter last year, and that’s saying something.
If I had to pick the one guy in all the world I don’t want to see on the Yankees, it is Jason Varitek.
Wave-
How about Schilling?
I wouldn’t waste a 4th round pick on Varitek. Barf.
Molina/Cash if Posada’s a no-go.
Why isn’t Dunn’s old team bringing him back?
Why aren’t the Brewers bringing Sheet’s back?
“Wave-
How about Schilling?”
Hmmm…
Would I rather be burned to death or drawn and quartered?
I’m the better half of m.
Someone in the Boston media is saying Tek is going back to the Sox but doesn’t want to sign a contract until his divorce is finalized so the ex Mrs. Tek wouldn’t have claim to the money.
Seems pretty far fetched to me but it does sound like a Boras move.
“Molina/Cash if Posada’s a no-go.”
Some of us actually want to win…
NYYanksFan January 23rd, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Someone in the Boston media is saying Tek is going back to the Sox but doesn’t want to sign a contract until his divorce is finalized so the ex Mrs. Tek wouldn’t have claim to the money.
Seems pretty far fetched to me but it does sound like a Boras move.
- – - – - – - – - –
I done dealt with divorce lawyers, NYYfan. I don’t think Mr. Veritek’s delay in signing for another month or so will present Ms. Veritek’s attorney much of an obstacle.
That’s a rumor that can be disregarded.
Nick-
Are you really pinch hitting tonight?
Buddy, I’m not sure. Pete advertised a “Nick from San Francisco” which would only be a semi-accurate description of me. Maybe it’s that guy in the Facebook group that Ed was talking about a while ago?
who’s the guy who kept saying that pettite will come back for 12 or 13 million bucks and where is he now ? with all this andy talk tonight i’d think he come out of the shadows and face the music that he is not going to sign a contract for 12 million bucks.
MLB Network for next week has Prime 9 Best Shortstops.
Giving Jeter a little love is likely to get some stat people all riled up.
I’m in that facebook group, but never read it. Not really a reason to if I am here.
Well I’m out everyone. I’ll be sure to post pictures and videos on the facebook site.
Have fun jennifer! Mooose!
jennifer, have fun and have a safe trip! Tell the Moose that we all miss him!
Thanks
The guy the Yankees should take a good look at is Mark Mulder.
I am very interested to see how he throws for scouts the first week of February.
Have fun Jennifer!!
“If Nick’s post is going to be about Andy, someone just shoot me now and put me out of my misery.”
i have it on good authority that nick’s post is going to be on how in the world can livan hernandez win 13 games .
This guy won’t take $10 mill to play ball? come on. totally getting sick of this. I say give Hughes and Aceves and co. a chance. Thanks for the memories Andy.
Can’t wait to read Nick’s post
Does anybody else think all of these sheets rumors are ridiculously bogus nonsense? Within one month, we have had so much garbage stuff down our throat about sheet’s health, i am beginning to think that none of it is true. From the end of the season to the third of january, we could only read his dl history which made it clear that he had some chronic problems but a minor injury in september to his forearm was the only reason he landed on the dl all last year.
Then, reports come out January 4th saying that he had major problems with his back, shoulder, arm, etc. that were more serious than teams were originally led on to believe which explained the complete lack of interest in sheets. Today we learn An updated medical profile sparked renewed interest among many teams throughout the league.
So three dramatically different reports all about the exact same subject and all within the last month. And i could only imagine that sheets while rehabbing from his forearm tear is not doing anything too physical this off season so I doubt throughout all of this that anything much changed with his actual current status.
The first set of beliefs were probably legit because they were taken right off his own dl history, the second came up on January fourth by multiple sources in the media to try to explain his lack of interest and the third was actually sent out by sheets or his agent and somehow got teams to change their minds even though sheets himself was behind those reports.
I was definitely skeptical about all the BS coming out in early January and Im even more dubious of the worst of the newest set of lies, I mean reports. But most of this blog bought into the second round of trash so I guess people will believe this report as well – i DONT BELIEVE ANY OF IT as I was raised to question the sources of information like this. Who even knows what the real truth is at this point but i guess the yanks missed the boat because sheets is no longer a bargain – this is exactly the reason I was so into sheets for a price of one year and 6 to 8 mil. He most likely would have been a steal at that value because now his price has skyrocketed all b/c some report sheets himself sent out. Are the minds of teams and execs really being changed by this report? Wow.
i’m really kind of bored with the Pettitte talk lately. To the point where I’ve just been skimming over the comments on the issue. He will sign with us and by mid-may, we’ll all have forgotten that it was an off-season issue…
“Thanks for sharing your opinion which i did not ask for about my posts.”
Actually, just by posting them in the first you DO ask for opinions about your posts – thats what a blog comments section IS.
“i’m really kind of bored with the Pettitte talk lately.”
its a horse thats so dead we’d have to bury it twice for it to go away, lol.