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Clock is ticking louder for Pettitte

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 23, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

So the Mets signed Freddy Garcia. Ben Sheets met with the Rangers. The Dodgers are apparently going to go with Randy Wolf.

Jon Garland apparently shot a man in Reno just to watch him die based on the lack of interest he has received.

So where does this leave Andy Pettitte?

Pettitte said about a dozen times last season how great his elbow felt and how much his sons were enjoying being around the park. Retirement was not on his mind. He once even told me how much more his family was enjoying living in Westchester this time around.

Pettitte has every right to go out and make his best deal. He doesn’t owe the Yankees anything beyond his best effort while under contract. Sure, you’d like to think he feels some remorse over the springing the HGH admission on them. But business is business.

But as days pass and other pitchers sign, where is Pettitte going to do better than the one-year deal the Yankees are offering? The flip side is the Yankees can’t do much better either, unless you want to roll the dice with Sheets and A.J. Burnett in the same rotation.

Brian Cashman has read the market well and there is little reason for the Yankees to budge. As for Pettitte, a $10 million deal in this market is hardly defeat. Guys like Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn and Orlando Hudson will knock each other to get that.

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121 Responses to “Clock is ticking louder for Pettitte”

  1. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Pete, dont forget that 3/$36M deal the Hendricks were throwing in Cash’s face.

  2. jennifer January 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Personally based on what Pettitte said I don’t think he gave us his best effort last season. His off season work out was messed up because of all his meetings with lawyers and congress.

    And if Andy is ashamed to take a pay cut. He doesn’t have to look very far to a former teamate who took a huge hit in his salary.

  3. Bob January 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    I have not seen anything written about the possibility that the Yanks may not want Pettitte because of the negative publicity over his HGH use. After all, giving Torre a lowball offer was their way of changing managers; could they be doing that again? I’m not convinced, but I am surprised that it hasn’t at least engendered speculation.

  4. Sean Serritella January 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Abreu hit 14 of his 20 home runs at Yankee stadium with the short right field porch. He’s 35 and his production is going to decrease.

  5. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    At this point, for 1/$7M, Sheets may be worth it. What is $7M to the Yankees really? And if he shocks everyone and survives the season without this inevitable injury he will be getting, we will have a real dominant rotation for the Ages (with 4 number 1-2 starters)

  6. Tommy January 23rd, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Pettitte is misreading this market. The Yankees should move on. Sign Sheets.

  7. you gotta have faith (pettite where art thou?) January 23rd, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    we need pettite, or someone a lot like him. if we start the season with 2 rookies in the back of our rotation then to quote yogi it will be “deja vu all over again”. he brings stability to our roatation, i hope he agrees to a contract, and in the end he probably will.

  8. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    There seems to be this idea that Pettitte will give you 200 innings this year, while Sheets is going to end up on the DL before the season even starts. There is absolutely no guarantee that Pettitte doesnt land on the DL at some point. If you have Sheets, and the gamble doesnt pay off, you have a mix of Aceves, Hughes, and YES the man himself, Ian Kennedy!!!

  9. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Is there a guarantee that any player at all won’t land on the DL at some point?

    Past performance does not guarantee future results, but it can provide clues.

  10. you gotta have faith (pettite where art thou?) January 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Tex’s New Best Friend,

    true nothing is definate and something can happen to pettite along the way, but dont you think having both aj and sheets is just too risky given their history?

  11. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    I think it is definitely a risk to have Sheets and AJ together. I am not actually convinced that AJ will be consistantly on the DL. Sheets is more of a worry, but there is another argument against Pettitte.

    Yes he gives innings, but in the second half last year, they were not quality. People blame his HGH issues and Clemens and distractions. He seems to have those same distractions this year, plus his contract dispute. Has he been working out all winter? Will he be ineffective in the 2nd half again this year?

    Again, for $7Million, Sheets is worth the risk and worst case we end up with Aceves/Hughes/Kennedy, all three i still have confidence in, in that order.

  12. MichiganYankee January 23rd, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Is the $10 million offer still on the table? I thought that the Yankees retracted the offer after signing Tex. My read is that Hal has set a firm payroll cap and that $10 million will exceed it. The Yanks have been trying to move Nady or Swisher to make salary room for Pettitte.

    Note that the Yanks are paying 40 cents on the dollar in luxury tax. Is Pettitte really worth $14 million?

  13. Tom January 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    There are no sure things in baseball. The fact of the matter is that Sheets is always hurt. Yes, Pettitte ended the season on the DL; however, he has a track record of pitching 200 innings a year. Sheets does not.

  14. Boston Dave January 23rd, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Adam Dunn will get $10M. He hasn’t signed because he’s actually holding out for 4/$56M. When he smartens up he could get 3/30.

  15. Boston Dave January 23rd, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Michigan Yankee,

    That is a great point that I haven’t heard anyone mention yet.

    “Note that the Yanks are paying 40 cents on the dollar in luxury tax. Is Pettitte really worth $14 million?”

  16. Vito January 23rd, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    camp opens Feb 13 for the Yankees. 22 days….

    There are still a ton of free agents out there that will have to swallow their pride and accept “chump change” if they want to play this year, Pettitte included.

  17. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    “Yes he gives innings, but in the second half last year, they were not quality. People blame his HGH issues and Clemens and distractions.”

    People may say it, but is there any evidence to support it? Wouldn’t they so-called issues and distractions have affected Pettitte more at the beginning of the season than the end? Was it the psychological strain of these issues that hurt his shoulder?

  18. PRAWN15 January 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    How will Petitte feed his family on ONLY 10 million. Cashman is so insensitive.

  19. Laura January 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Pete, must we talk about the Pettitte situation again? Ugh!

    Pitchers and catcher report in what, 20 days? That’s how long both sides have to finally make a decision. I’m not holding my breath.

  20. Carl January 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    It’ll get done.

    The apparent reason Garcia chose the Mets is because he was lead to believe Pettitte would sign with the Yankees, leaving him with a marginal shot of making the team.

    It’s a game of chicken right now. The Hendricks brothers and the Yankees will do this until Feb. 1 rolls along when at that point either Pettitte will retire instead of taking a pay cut or he’ll tell his agents to just get the deal done. Personally, he doesn’t seem to me like a man who wants to retire yet so I’m pretty confident we’ll see him in pinstripes on Opening Day.

    It’s also very telling how the Yanks have pretty much expressed 0 interest in any of the remaining SPs. And I don’t think its because they have confidence in Hughes. They’ve made a point to say he has to earn his keep this year. Pettitte will be back.

  21. Boston Dave January 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    “Tex’s New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    At this point, for 1/$7M, Sheets may be worth it.”

    Has there been any indication whatsoever that Sheets will settle for a 1yr/7M deal? No.

    It’s fun to fantasize but there have been 7,000 fantasy posts about signing Sheets for 1yr/$7M.

    The reason he is unsigned is because he wants a multiyear deal.

    Who conjured up this magical 1yr/$7M deal in the first place anyway?

  22. Chris from NJ January 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    I think this Yankee team is capable of making it deep into the playoffs with or without Pettitte, though I like the team better with him than without. A.J. is not as big of an injury risk as everyone thinks, his injury plagued youth seems to stem from not taking care of his arm, something which he has addressed in his career. Joba is without question the biggest worry for the rotation, between his health and innings limits.

  23. Laura January 23rd, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    “Who conjured up this magical 1yr/$7M deal in the first place anyway?”

    The Yankees would be out of their minds to sign Sheets for any price. I continue to be amazed at how fans, who supposedly love the team, want them to sign an injured pitcher with a bad MRI. Wasn’t 4 years of Pavano enough?

  24. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Joba’s health? Guy ends up with tendonitis once, and he is suddenly an injury concern?

    Wouldnt Wang pitching in an NL ballpark be a concern?

    How about A-Rod’s seemingly lack of focus on baseball while with Madonna?

    How about our RISP average?

    Everything is a question.

  25. TGFizeek January 23rd, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    It’s pretty clear to me that Petitte will be a Yankee. With the Mets signing Garcia, Perez wants too much money and everyone shaking their heads after they read Sheets medical file, I don’t see another option. This is as much a pride thing as a money thing, it will settle in eventually.
    Personally, I think Garland give as many innings as anyone else. Face it, 4th slot in this rotation needs to throw innings and that’s it. CC, AJ, Wang, Joba and hopefully Hughes or some other farmhand will be the forces on the rotation. 4th slot is just keeping someone else’s seat warm for them.

  26. Boston Dave January 23rd, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Does anybody know what Juan Cruz is asking for in contract negotiations?

    Rivera, Marte, Cruz, Melancon, Bruney, Coke, Veras

    yikes!

  27. ImaHustla85 January 23rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    to the writer of this blog…not that it matters but :you “wrote…”where is pettitte DOING TO DO BETTER”

    doing to do? i know you meant GOing to do just thought if you want you could correct it. love the site. i check it several times a day.

  28. Boston Dave January 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    “The Yankees would be out of their minds to sign Sheets for any price.”

    I just like the idea that some fans are making up offers in their heads and convincing themselves that they are legitimate offers that Sheets would gladly accept.

  29. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Yes, TNBS, everything is indeed a question, but earlier you seemed to draw an equivalence between the risk of expecting 200 innings from Pettitte and that of a season of Sheets.

    Not all risks are equal.

  30. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “Pete, must we talk about the Pettitte situation again? Ugh!”

    More comments on Pettitte in the last 30 minutes than comments on the previous threads in the last two hours. Can’t fight City Hall, Laura.

    Rosenthal in an article yesterday said the Yanks remain focused on Pettitte, so I guess they are. If they are focused, that must mean they are willing to negotiate. The next move may be for Andy to indicate he’s willing to move off of the $16MM.

    My guess is we start to see some movement next week. The IDA bond flip-flap last week may have had the Yanks’ a little concerned where their bottom line would be for 2009. That’s resolved now, so the Yanks probably have a pretty good picture of their 2009 finances.

    Based on what the Yanks seem to want (another starter), signing Pettitte still makes too much sense not to happen, so I still think the deal is getting done.

  31. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Another slow day, so Pete raises the spectre of Andy Pettitte. Last week there were 800 posts furiously debating the warts and virtures of A.P. This week, not so much.

    Even Wave Your Hat and old GB7 can’t summon up another indignant rant supporting St. Andy’s quest for gold.

  32. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    It is still likely Pettitte finally gives up and signs for whatever the Yankees are offering now. Maybe i am missing something here, but pettitte doesnt seem all that eager to come back anymore. It cannot hurt to consider risk reward for both of them.

    First, I am a pettitte fan so i dont think i am hating on the man.

    Also, yes pettitte provides innings with more stability, however, Sheets starts show more quality when he does play. What good is Pettitte for 200 innings of what he gave us in the 2nd half of last year?

  33. DT January 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Rule #1 – It’s almost always about the money.
    Rule #2 – see rule #1.

    Sure, Andy wanted to play for only the Yankees.
    Yes, Andy wanted to play in the new stadium.
    I believed it. I still believe it. But rule #1 rules.

    I think Andy (and more specifically his agents) had a plan.
    Try to get the Yanks to give him his 1 year/ 16 mil as soon as the season ended. ASAP.

    He knew the Yanks were going for pitching. He probably assumed (as most did in the clubhouse) that Moose was not coming back. It mostly likely pained him when the media leaks were generated it was either Moose or Andy. He knew Moose wasn’t coming back!

    If he could have signed BEFORE the CC and AJ signings no one would have thought twice about his salary. The market hadn’t been established then either. He wanted the first slice of the pie. The ploy didn’t work.

    Sometimes you just have to eat humble pie – or even the 10 million dollar crumbs.

  34. yankeefan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    I wish someone would do a psychoanalysis of professional athetes and write a book about how their brains work and what their thought process is. When they stop becoming human. Is it the first time they see all those 000s in their bank account? At what point does greed stop polluting the mind and make them think that $10 million is an insult and bruises their ego. What planet are they on. At this point should fans start boycotting games? Is it worth watching these overpayed prima donnas? Nobody is worth that much money! Just think about it. $100,000 salary is more than enough for 6 months of actual work and playing 162 games. Teixeira is getting paid over $35,000 for each at bat? So if he strikes-out, the Yankees say, “ooh time to go write him another check for $35,000″ This is ridiculous. The reality is most people on this planet live on less than 1$ a day. Pettite if your reading this somewhere. Just die.

  35. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    “Also, yes pettitte provides innings with more stability, however, Sheets starts show more quality when he does play.”

    Replacement Level Yankee Weblog has analyzed this. Using CAIRO projections, Sheets projects to save about .150 runs per inning over a replacement level pitcher, Pettitte, about .106. This means we need to get about 150 innings out of Sheets for him to be as useful as Andy, assuming Andy could give you 210:

    http://www.replacementlevel.co.....RLYW/index

    So you make the call. Are you feeling lucky? Also, I still think Sheets gets a multi-year deal so that’s an issue too.

  36. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    TNBF, I’m not exactly sure what your argument is, but I think we can be confident that Cashman has assesses the risk/reward for Pettitte, for Sheets, and for every other available option for the rotation, including going with players already signed in the organization.

    I doubt there would even be a $10mm offer for Pettitte if they didn’t think there was a reasonable chance that he would perform at a level higher than most 4th starters.

  37. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Nick

    How do you know the 10mm ofer is still there?

    Pettitte was told before they signed Tex that it may not be there if the Yankees made another big signing.

  38. William Buckner January 23rd, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    “This is ridiculous. The reality is most people on this planet live on less than 1$ a day. Pettite if your reading this somewhere. Just die.”

    Yankeefan 23, you are the front runner for angriest post 2009!! I love it!

  39. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Vrsce: I do not know if the offer is still $10mm, true, just that, if we’re to believe current media reports, that the Yanks and Pettitte are still talking or at least have not closed to the door on each other.

    But that doesn’t change my point: I doubt there *would have even been* a $10mm offer for Pettitte if the Yanks didn’t think he could perform at a reasonably-high level.

  40. Smarter than you January 23rd, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Pettitte owes it to himself to live up to his own words, which were that money doesn’t matter to him.

  41. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “Pettitte was told before they signed Tex that it may not be there if the Yankees made another big signing.”

    The logical implication of that statement is that, had Pettitte signed in mid-December, the Yanks would have not made an offer to Tex or would have offered Tex less money.

    That makes no sense. It would be the ultimate tail wagging the dog scenario.

  42. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Wave Your Hat

    Whatever. That was, neverthe less, the reported story.

    You may be getting “wave your hat” and “wag the dog “confused.

    perhaps you should “walk it off”

  43. MaineYankee January 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    According to what they said on Yankees Hot Stove last night, the big concern about Sheets was his back not his arm. They said the Yanks have started to shy away from pitchers with back issues.

  44. Tom January 23rd, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    “Pettitte was told before they signed Tex that it may not be there if the Yankees made another big signing.”

    But, Andy turned down the offer after Teixeira was signed. The Yankees did not pull the offer after Teix was signed, Andy turned it down.

  45. bigjf January 23rd, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Right now, Juan Cruz makes a lot of sense for the Yanks, first of all. It would only cost a 4th rounder to sign the Type A reliever.

    As for the starter, I still think it will be Pettitte, but if not, Garland makes a lot of sense. I wouldn’t mind rolling the dice with Sheets either, depending on his current medical reports…the Yanks have some decent spot starters (not factoring in Hughes) in the system already for injury replacements.

    All that said, I have a hard time believing the Rangers are going to sign Sheets. Nolan Ryan is going to tolerate a guy like Sheets and his durability issues? I think Ryan is going to crash and burn anyway out of frustration because most players can’t be reasonably expected to come close to emulating his abilities. The guy threw absolute gas for well over 20 years. He’s the best of all time! But if Ryan is going to even attempt a philosophy of throwing out pitch counts, Sheets is probably not a guy to try that with.

  46. Tex's New Best Friend January 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    The problem here is that Andy was overpaid for the last two years. Except for Jeter, i dont think that Yankees are going to continue paying players just because they are Yankees.

  47. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    “Whatever. That was, neverthe less, the reported story.”

    I see, for you, I have to spell it out.

    Let’s say the reported story is correct, which I will grant for the purpose of argument.

    In light of the Tex signing, the threat that the Yanks would walk away from Pettitte if they made another big signing makes no sense. So there’s no reason to believe the $10MM offer is not still on the table.

  48. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Tom

    Correct.

    Do you think it is still there for him?

    If so, do you think he can swallow his pride and ask for it after turning it down?

  49. Jimi January 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    To clear things up: We know the Yank’s offer was $10M/1yr and it’s been published that the Hendricks cou8ntered with $14M. Also when Pettite’s camp turned down the offer it was automatically off the table and there will have to be contact from the Hendricks brothers before any talks resume. Gibberish and conjecture aside, Andy’s good for the team, provides Yankee veteran presence(that will help CC and AJ’s transition) and I’m sure he’s working out like a warrior to prevent a recurrence of last year, so the durability issue is minimal at best. An offer of $10M with incentives of $1M each for 200 innings and 18 or more wins would be very amenible to both sides, effectively splitting the difference. I say throw in another $1M incentive for 20 wins and you have a win/win situation for both sides. If you want more security, add a reduction for injury and loss of service.

    This is the guy, for so many reasons, who should be starting the first game in the new stadium.

  50. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Wave Your Hat

    See above, it should be clear. Pettitte’s pride has backed him into a tough spot.

    He looks very lame if he has to crawl back and ask for the offer he rejected.
    If it is still there. His only way to save what is left of his pride is if the Yankees increase above 10mm.

    Perhaps you might wish to take up a collection for the poor mook?

  51. Jimi January 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Not to belabor the point, but all the critics of Pettite for wanting money have to realize that it was his agents who advised him not to take such a large paycut. Give the guy a break. He served the team well for alot of years and was part of the reason he has 4 World Series rings.

  52. KennyH123 January 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    I love when Yankee fans suggest some ridiculous trade or signing, and then post the new fantasy batting lineup or pitching rotation….as if we couldn’t imagine it outselves, and need to see it in print.

    “Hey guys, why don’t we trade Nady, Bruney and Veras for Grady Sizemore!!.. he would totally solve our CF problems, without having to give up a lot!!! Then our lineup would be:

    DAMON
    JETER
    TEIXEIRA
    A-ROD
    SIZEMORE
    MATSUI
    POSADO
    CANO
    GARDNER

    Pretty awesome!!!”

  53. saucY January 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    “Does anybody know what Juan Cruz is asking for in contract negotiations?

    Rivera, Marte, Cruz, Melancon, Bruney, Coke, Veras

    yikes!”

    i agree with this. just commented about him on that faceoff blog…

  54. Garym(Yanks and More) January 23rd, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    I agree Pete, the Yankees best bet is Pett and his best bet is the Yanks. As the rest of these guys come off the board he will quickly see the Yanks aren’t budging and there is no where for him to go. They will come to an agreement in a couple of weeks im sure. If i was the Yanks I would give him the 10 million base and throw in some incentives to reach 12 or 13 or whatever. I am sure the Rangers will give sheets like 2 or 3 yrs, they need pitching.

  55. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    ““Does anybody know what Juan Cruz is asking for in contract negotiations?”

    Bullpen depth is way down on the Yank list of concerns.

    Before spending money on Cruz, I’d consider CF, a better back-up catcher in case Posada can’t catch, and a starting pitcher.

  56. Bronx Jeers January 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Nick in SF,

    Now you’ve gone and foiled my plan to break out our old esteemed friend for your big debut tomorrow.

    Break a leg!

  57. yankeesfan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “and I’m sure he’s working out like a warrior to prevent a recurrence of last year”

    Hate to burst your overly optimistic bubble, but Andy Pettite is sitting on his fat a$$, with his arm cross, and pouting right now. No he is not working out like a warrior..why would you when you don’t have a contract. What’s the motivation? He plays for the money. If anything, we should know that by now.

  58. Smarter than you January 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    You couldn’t get Sizemore for that package even if you had a cruise missile pointed at Shapiro’s head.

  59. jennifer January 23rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Jimi

    First of all it has been publicized lately that the offer was actually 10.5 million. The offer has been on the table for 2 plus months. Don’t make it sound like it was on the table for 24 hours. And it is being reported that the offer is standing.

    And please Andy is a big boy, he could tell his agents I am going against your wishes and want to take the Yankee offer.

    Don’t make Andy the innocent victim in this.

  60. BD January 23rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    I understand that many people here don’t want Pettitte signed based for non-baseball reasons (e.g., they’re angry with him for saying money wasn’t an issue, or for using HGH, or for not working for $1 a day like most people in the world).

    However, based solely on BASEBALL criteria, Pettitte is still a very valuable commodity.

    I wish people would realize that Pettitte did NOT pitch badly last year. His peripheral stats show he was the same pitcher as always. He was just very unlucky in terms of the defense behind him and BABIP.

  61. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    “e looks very lame if he has to crawl back and ask for the offer he rejected.
    If it is still there. His only way to save what is left of his pride is if the Yankees increase above 10mm.”

    You like stories, so think about Ken Rosenthal’s. He says the Yanks remain focused on Pettitte. Andy has rejected $10MM. To me, that says the Yanks are willing to go up from $10MM. Otherwise, why would they remain focused on Pettitte?

  62. yankeesfan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Anybody see the analysis on outfielder arms. There’s a link at River Ave Blues, Grady Sizemore surprisingly has the worst arm out of all the centerfielders in baseball.

  63. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 23rd, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Let’s talk about something different today.
    So… what’s everyone think about the Andy Pettitte situation?

  64. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Wave Your Hat

    That is what I, in essence, said. The Yankees will have to increase in order for him to be able to accept, I hope they do and that he comes back. While it is plain that he is a crybaby with a weak character, he is still a very good pitcher and exactly what the Yankees need. If his elbow hold up, he will perform as well as he did over the first 1/2 of last season.

  65. yankeesfan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Jimi,
    Good news! I heard that Andy Pettite is locked in a “cluuber lang” type gym working out two a days in the hot texas sun and he’s throwing fastballs at a picture of Brian Cashman’s face. He’s gonna be sick next year!

  66. Jimi January 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    yankeesfan23- no optimistic bubble here and if you have followed this team at all over the last several years, you would realize the inability to burst anyones “bubble” with non-facts and conjecture.

    Fact. Pettite and Clemens have been close friends for several years up until the Steroid witch hunt and learned a little more about what it takes to hold up over years of playing than merely taking a needle. Clemens work out regimen was second to none in baseball and Andy adopted his workout habits. It is widely known that the scandal took away from Pettite’s preseason preparation last year.

    Fact. The reality of it is that when a player is without a contract, it’s even more important to be in playing shape as all potential contracts are contingent on physicals and workouts with the prospective team. The guy is a pro, he knows what is expected of him and nobody is going to sign off on him without a slew of MRI’s.

  67. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    “So… what’s everyone think about the Andy Pettitte situation?”

    Baseball news is so slow right now, what else is there to obsess about?

  68. Eddie in Yonkers January 23rd, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Regardless of what Pettitte would sign for, every day that goes by he takes a bigger public relations hit with many fans.
    It first bad outing he had at the new Stadium he would hear about it . . . big time.

  69. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Bronx Jeers: to paraphrase our pal, rumors of my new blog are exaggerated. It’s just a one-off guest post here. But I appreciate the support. I’m going to need it, as the subject matter of my post (a critical look at Yankee-related poetry during the 1920′s) may be too esoteric for some tastes.

  70. Jimi January 23rd, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    the #5 rotation spot is the only glaring need right now and Pettite is the best fit. Plus what else is there to talk about if you don’t subscribe to ridiculous scenarios of obtaining such and such player for such and such measly offer or packaging an unproven rookie with the ball boy.

  71. YankFanDave January 23rd, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Andy and his agents are being business like and don’t forget it is a business within a game. However, I don’t think their tactics can be classified as shrewd. Like many of the current free agents they are slow to realize the change in the market. Over the last couple of years teams have begun to let productive players go unsigned and in this year’s market that is likely to increase. The small market teams seem ready to settle on marginal competitiveness and the big market teams seem satisfied with rosters that will allow them to compete. The Yankees function in their own market reality and have done what they needed to do and seem ready to go forward with their current roster. The only team that is sure to move on one or two of the available premium free agents is Washington and that is because they are so bad and in danger of extinction — they need to do something, anything that puts butts in the seats. I would love to see Pettitte signed. But he is a competitor and like all great competitors he has tremendous pride. Having experienced the Yankees lack of attention that led him to sign with Houston; knowing the Yankees paid above value to Mo and Jotge due to past contributions; seeing CC and AJ signed to mega cobtracts; and, being asked to take a $6M pay cut seems to be too much for his ego and pride. I am not saying I agree with his reaction but those facts provide some context to his likely thinking. But as a diehard Yankee fan — Andy, swallow your pride, take the $10M and come home!

  72. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Bronx Jeers: to paraphrase our pal, rumors of my new blog are exaggerated. It’s just a one-off guest post here. But I appreciate the support. I’m going to need it, as the subject matter of my post (a critical look at Yankee-related poetry during the 1920’s) may be too esoteric for some tastes.

    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
    Not to GB. He probably wrote some of them.

  73. Ham Fighters January 23rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Pete! kudos on the j cash reference!

  74. Vrsce January 23rd, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    He was a geezer before Mantle was signed.

  75. BroNeill January 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Everyone assumes that the offer was for a flat 10M. Cashman never got into the specifics of the offer. What if it was lower, and incentives would have brought it up to 10?

  76. William Buckner January 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    “the #5 rotation spot is the only glaring need right now and Pettite is the best fit.”

    I’m afraid you might need to add catcher to that list. Posada is still only throwing 90′.

  77. Stateman January 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Andy should take the ten million and run with it. He could be a fine #4 or 5 starter and win 15 games. Garcia must have had a strong indication that Pettitte was going to resign with the Yankees or he would have signed with the Yankees over the inferior team from Queens.

  78. yankeesfan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Can anybody else just picture Andy Pettite in a corner of a dark room, with dark bags under his eyes, sitting in front of the bright lights of his computer monitor reading his online bank statement and only seeing 31,000,000,000 and then scowling in frustration before slamming his computer into the wall and yelling “DAMN YOU CASHMAN.. DAMN YOU!”

    Just a thought.

  79. Drew January 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Sheets sounds pretty good in a short term deal right now, considering how much his value/demands have collapsed!

  80. Ace January 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Roll the DICE! Sign up Sheets.

  81. Boy who blocked his own shot January 23rd, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    “Can anybody else just picture Andy Pettite in a corner of a dark room, with dark bags under his eyes, sitting in front of the bright lights of his computer monitor reading his online bank statement and only seeing 31,000,000,000 and then scowling in frustration before slamming his computer into the wall and yelling “DAMN YOU CASHMAN.. DAMN YOU!”

    Now is he looking at his bank statement or reading the comments on Yankeesblog? I think both could inspire a man to break a computer.

    Maybe it’s more like; “DAMN YOU ALL LOHUAD! AND DAMN YOU SHEETs YOU PSEUDO OFTEN INJURED POTENTIAL ACE! DAMN YOU!”

  82. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Stateman
    That could be or maybe not. Maybe it’s just that Garcia got an actual offer from the Mets and didn’t want to chance dragging it out waiting to see what the Yankees were going to do. Maybe a guy negotiating from his position of weakness (coming back from serious injury)- and in this market – accepts a good and reasonable offer when it’s presented.

    The other point is possible too, but probably reading too much into the Pettitte situation here.

  83. hclunited January 23rd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Pettitte and the Yankees should negotiate the way Kramer and Father Seinfeld did over the raincoats.

    Yankees: $7 million!
    Pettitte: 13!
    Yankees: 9!
    Pettitte: 11!
    Yankees: 10!
    Pettitte: Deal!

    Simple as that.

  84. Ham Fighters January 23rd, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    maybe garcia preferred to try his comeback in the nl instead of the al

  85. jennifer January 23rd, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    yankeesfan23

    I could see him pacing back and forth with bags under his eyes, tearing his hair out screaming WHY CASHMAN HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME!! I didn’t pitch bad last year. I kept my team in games. Heck I kept that in that game that I won and gave up 10 runs, after all I gave up less runs than the other team.

  86. Jay Hirsch January 23rd, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Get off your man crush on Andy. You and the Yankees have to move on. Let’s build a team not resurrect one.

  87. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    Reports said Garcia thought he’d have a better chance to pitch with the Mets than the Yanks. Considering the two staffs, doesn’t that seem like the most obvious answer?

  88. RayVTNC January 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Could it be that Pettite is already signed verbally for a Yankee contract, but nothing official until the 40 man roster can be adjusted via a trade?

    I personally want Sheets & Pettite. Call me greedy. Or Sheets & Perez.

    Also, could Manny be added with incentives!! I’d love to see Gammons’ face with Manny at bat in Boston for the Yankees. I mean the Original Jinx was over Ruth in the old stadium! How about Manny in the New One!

    Just a thought!! LOL!

  89. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 23rd, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    RayVTNC

    yep, you’re greedy.

  90. yankeesfan23 January 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    Jennifer,
    I like the pacing imagery…I can see him pacing in front of his computer back and forth before having a panic attack and sprinting to his computer to check that all his money is still there…I think once you get that rich you shave off 3 zeros on everything. So to Pettite, a $10 million offer is really a $10,000. That’s why he’s so insulted. Same reason why Marbry won’t take a buyout, he doesn’t see it as 20 million is more than I can ever spend..he sees it at as $20,000 and he needs to save every penny. Interesting fellows those athletes.

  91. DT January 23rd, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I’m eagerly anticipating SF Nick’s blog tomorrow.
    (or midnight – which ever comes first)

    For some reason I’m thinking of a combination of Robin Williams, YouTube, magical puppets and the Cal marching band. Oh yeah, and Moose bars.

  92. jennifer January 23rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    yankeesfan23

    You are probably right. Heck 10 million doesn’t go as far as it used to. :lol:

  93. Smarter than you January 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Starks January 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Forget Pettitte, Forget Sheets. Sign Oliver Perez NOW!

    He is still very young, with nasty stuff, 3 years for 30. Plus pitches very good against top competition, he is not scared!

    3yrs/30mil Get it done cash!
    ___

    CC, AJ, Wang, Perez

    That blocks some combination of Joba, Hughes, Brackman, Betances.

    That’s really dumb.

  94. RayVTNC January 23rd, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    I don’t see signing Perez blocking anyone. A LHP in Yankee Stadium is always a good thing. If Perez were to sign & the rookies are ready he could be traded fairly easily. Plus he has a high upside & in 3 years will only be 30.

  95. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    DT: those are all good notions and I wish I had considered them before writing my post. Unfortunately, what I did was much closer to a conventional guest post – in fact, I tried to take the most-criticized aspects of previous guest posts (boring nostalgia, baseless claims, flat jokes) and incorporate them into mine. Lower those expectations!

  96. Bob Mac January 23rd, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    With Sheets having a day long meeting with the Rangers, it wouldn’t surprise me for him to off the table soon. Ryan will call that shot, and we can presume he must like Sheets and Ryan would impress Sheets. I really believe very soon it will be Pettitte or the players already on the roster. Their has not been a hint of Yankee interest in anyone else except from the bloggers.
    What is Pettitte’s realistic option? Dodgers? Is retirement an option? If it is one he is considering I wonder if he is working out as he should. It would be hard for many to work out like he used too if one is unsure he will play. I also don’t think, absent a trade, can the Yankees sign Pettitte for what he thinks he is worth and be under last years team salaries like they seem very anxious to say to the world.

  97. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 23rd, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    I wonder if the upcoming Clemens debacle has anything to do with the seeming lack of interest in Pettitte.

    Now THERE’S a novel thought…

    :D

  98. DT January 23rd, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    You can’t go wrong with parody, Nick.

    If you get a bunch of tomatoes tossed in your direction – just say it was all Pete’s fault. He cut you off at 500 words. All your good material was between words 501-1000.

  99. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 23rd, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    “Get off your man crush on Andy. You and the Yankees have to move on. *Let’s build a team not resurrect one.*”

    My thoughts exactly Jay. My thoughts exactly.

  100. pat January 23rd, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Nick
    Really?
    I was hoping for a 500 word discertation on the filmography of Hal and it’s impact on Yankee championships. I’ll still read anyhow though.

  101. Tom January 23rd, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Nick, does your post use the word defenestration in it?

  102. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    “can the Yankees sign Pettitte for what he thinks he is worth and be under last years team salaries like they seem very anxious to say to the world.”

    You can sign Pettitte for more than $10MM and stay under last year’s $209MM payroll IF you prorate the signing bonuses of CC and Tex over the length of their contracts. This is how MLB calculates the luxury tax, so it is a perfectly valid way of calculating payroll.

  103. bodhisattva January 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    jennifer
    January 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
    Personally based on what Pettitte said I don’t think he gave us his best effort last season. His off season work out was messed up because of all his meetings with lawyers and congress.
    And if Andy is ashamed to take a pay cut. He doesn’t have to look very far to a former teamate who took a huge hit in his salary.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Okay, now i have to step in. DIdn’t give us his best effort??? You mean because he chose to play through elbow pain instead of going on the DL? Because he knew our other options were horrendous? I don’t care what you think of Pettitte, but don’t try to sell it that he doesn’t give it 110 percent; the guy played hurt. It’s something he does because whatever he’s paid, he earns his paycheck in terms of effort and going the extra mile.

  104. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    More good suggestions, but these guest posts have to be written with a wider audience in mind – lots of people read the main posts but don’t get into the comments. A bunch of in-jokes for regulars would be great for the regulars, maybe not as much for the casual readers.

    Tom, I did actually use that word in my first draft, but I ended up tossing that idea out the window for more pedestrian prose.

  105. Wave Your Hat January 23rd, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Andrew Marchand is reporting the Mets have interest in Sheets, which is not surprising.

    That makes two teams showing interest in Sheets that we know of – the Rangers and the Mets.

    The way I see it, that really increases the likelihood of his getting a multi-year deal and decreases the likelihood the Yanks will be serious players for him.

    Andy’s looking better all the time.

  106. Tantron Willoughby January 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Trish, My thoughts exactly!!!! Unfortunately, I think Andy will be signed due to the sympathy all of the fans have for the “honest, humble, money disdainful” true Yankee. I hope Cashman lowers the price to 8 million, take it or leave it. Each week he should lower the offer by a million. Watch the HgH rage lol.

  107. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Trisha, I don’t begrudge you clinging to and repeating your pet theory. But do you have any evidence that it’s in any way the case? We’ve seen several reports (and I know media reports aren’t gospel) that Pettitte is still very much on the Yanks’ radar. They are obviously aware of side issues like Clemens; don’t you agree that Cashman has already factored that into his thinking about and negotiations with Andy Pettitte?

  108. randy l January 23rd, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    nick in sf,

    considering that you predicted the success of cashman’s starting pitching plan for hughes, kennedy , and joba, i think you should stick to humor since you’re definitely the funniest contributor to the blog. on the other hand your predictions are pretty funny too, so maybe that is the way to go.

    just kidding. looking forward to your post.

  109. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    “Trisha, I don’t begrudge you clinging to and repeating your pet theory. But do you have any evidence that it’s in any way the case?”

    None.

    “We’ve seen several reports (and I know media reports aren’t gospel) that Pettitte is still very much on the Yanks’ radar. They are obviously aware of side issues like Clemens; don’t you agree that Cashman has already factored that into his thinking about and negotiations with Andy Pettitte?”

    Nick the one wild card regarding the Clemens side issue is that the federal grand jury probe wasn’t announced until quite recently. Yankees had already made their offer. I at least wonder whether the new information will have a negative impact in terms of Cashman’s desire to offer Andy a contract.

  110. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Tantron, I just don’t think it’s worth the risk that he will be MIA, either physically or mentally.

    “Watch the HgH rage lol.”

    :lol:

    I wasn’t sold on him coming back after his dismal second half of last season. Once the new legal stuff emerged, it sealed the deal for me.

  111. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “Personally based on what Pettitte said I don’t think he gave us his best effort last season.”

    I have to disagree with this. Completely.

  112. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    I would suggest, then, that we would have heard about it already if the Clemens situation was a serious factor in Cashman’s thinking about Pettitte. It would certainly help with the PR involved with pulling the plug on a veteran player who is still beloved by a (dwindling) percentage of the fan base.

    My own feeling is that the Clemens situation is not a major factor at all as it relates to Andy. Whether it should be is a matter of opinion. The fact that Pettitte is still a serious option (if you believe that fact) suggests that they’ve digested this grand jury bombshell and don’t really care.

  113. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    “Get off your man crush on Andy. You and the Yankees have to move on. Let’s build a team not resurrect one.”

    Or how about you get over yourself and quit telling people how they should think just because its not in line with your thinking, hey?

  114. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    “The fact that Pettitte is still a serious option (if you believe that fact) suggests that they’ve digested this grand jury bombshell and don’t really care.”

    I don’t believe that to be fact at all. Since the Yankees aren’t known for blurting all of their information, nobody knows where they stand on Pettitte. I would suggest that Cashman would be absurd not to care about the possibility that one of his potential starters might be tied up both physically and mentally in what promises to be more ugliness in the Clemens drama. Since Andy himself admitted that last year’s hearings were a distraction to him, Cashman would certainly be justified in believing that this year’s won’t be any less a distraction. Add to that Andy’s second half, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Cashman to take a pass at this point.

  115. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    Your theory is somewhat understandable given your biases, but I think you’re trying to make the facts fit your theory instead of the other way around. Anyway, there’s more evidence to suggest that Pettitte remains a viable option for the Yankees than there is that they’ve written him off completely. I guess we’ll have to see how it all unfolds.

  116. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I don’t think I’ve ever claimed that the Yankees have written him off completely. I think there would be more reason for them to do so than to take him back. Where it all lies obviously nobody here, at least, knows for certain. I don’t know what evidence suggests that he remains a viable option (though it may in fact be the case.) The fact of the matter is that EVERYTHING is conjecture at this point.

    “Pettitte did not tell the Yankees that he might be included in the report, which said he had used human growth hormone. Pettitte admitted his use and the Yankees supported him publicly. *But his performance suffered in the second half of the season, when he usually gets stronger, and he admitted his distracting off-season might have been a factor.*”

    “Obviously anyone else would say, ‘I’ll go wherever I want to,’ because people want to try to get the most money,” Pettitte said before a Yankees-Angels game in Anaheim, Calif. *“But, I mean, I’m not going anywhere, you know what I’m saying? The Yankees know me enough, it’s not like I’m going to hold out. I guess if I had spent all my money or whatever, it might be different. But it’s not about that, really, anymore.*”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

  117. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    “There continues to be a dialogue between the Yankees and Andy Pettitte, though the club remains unconvinced the left-hander will accept a one-year offer for $10.5 million. Still, the Yanks prefer Pettitte over the pool of current free agents, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo....._deal.html

    Worth as much as any other theory – or more.

  118. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    “Worth as much as any other theory – or more.”

    Yeah, I’m always really convinced whenever I read something quoted by “a source with knowledge of the situation”.

    :D

    If you want to have the last word and say that your take is more viable than mine, feel free too do so. I remain convinced that Pettite’s admission from last season remains compelling reason enough for the Yankees to rethink their position since another Clemens chapter is on its way:

    “But his performance suffered in the second half of the season, when he usually gets stronger, *and he admitted his distracting off-season might have been a factor.*”

    Have a good night.

  119. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 23rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    And as a reminder, I’m not a Yankee fan who pouts when things don’t go the way I think they should. If the Yankees bring him back, they do.

  120. Nick in SF January 23rd, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Whether Pete Caldera’s source (and other similar reports) is more knowledgable about the state of Cashman’s thinking than Trisha in Rhode Island is of course an open question. Everyone can look at the available information and theories and make up their own mind.

  121. Jay Waldman January 23rd, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    I don’t think we owe Pettitte ANYTHING. It’s more like the other way around. He will be deciding soon that he wants to play and for the Yankees. SOmehow to save face he will ask for the 10 mil but with some kind of incentive clause that says 180+ innings and he makes another million and if he gets to 200 innings there’s another million. So there’s 12 million and it will show that the Yankees aren’t budging that much but make Pettitte feel like he didn’t have to bend over too bad.

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