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Today in The Journal News

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 25, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Robinson Cano made an appearance in Westchester last night and Josh Thomson has the story.

Cano has worked on his conditioning, improved his stance and is ready for a bounce-back season. He’s also looking forward to playing in the WBC.

————

The book Joe Torre wrote with Tom Verducci is about to come out and early reviews are that he had some revelations about the Yankees.

The book reportedly says Brian Cashman did not back Torre after the 2007 season, and that teammates referred to Alex Rodriguez as “A-Fraud.”

If you’re somehow surprised by either of those, you haven’t been paying attention. Cashman went to bat for Torre after the 2006 season and the disastrous Detroit playoff series. In 2007, it was obvious that the Steinbrenners, Randy Levine and others were going to get their way and hire a new manager. Cashman hasn’t been the GM for so long without knowing the terrain. Joe Girardi was available and that was going to be that.

As for Alex, it has been that way all of his career. Teammates in Seattle, Texas and now New York have said that and worse about him.

Read our story today about Robinson Cano. “I’ll trust that when I see it,” he said when asked about Alex actually playing for the Dominican Republic in the WBC.

And Cano is his friend. Alex is a great, great player who’s not especially popular. That’s not really news, is it?

UPDATE, 7:23 p.m.: Verducci said on SI.com that the book is a third-person narrative and is not the rip job some are making it out to be.

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1,021 Responses to “Today in The Journal News”

  1. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? January 25th, 2009 at 5:21 am

    i hope the big guy does not have his tongue firmly stuck in his cheek on this!

  2. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 6:45 am

    Robby’s seriousness about the game has worried me more than his ability to play it. Last season will probably be the worst he’ll ever have. But there’s more to the game than statistics, and I hope he understands the WAY you play affects fan’s perception of you and maybe even teammates as well.
    So the news here is a good sign in that regard.
    Nice footnote on Bernie at the end too.

  3. MaineYankee January 25th, 2009 at 7:06 am

    With the ability that you can see Cano has it would be hard for me to see the Yankees trade him. I think he has so much talent that to give up on him after one bad season would be a big mistake. Some question his defense but what I see is someone that is so fluid that at times he looks like he isn’t trying. I’m not saying he does’t need to improve just saying I think patience is the best route at this time.

  4. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 7:26 am

    Last year, Robbie went from a boy whom I’m guessing grew up poor, to a multi-millionaire. I think that might effect most of us. Hopefully now, the financial ‘shock’ is over, that he has matured some, and that he understands now he is not playing for money, but for personal achievement and to see what kind of baseball player he can be.

    I think 2009 will be a do-or-die year for Robbie. We will see soon, if he is serious about being a part of Yankee history.

  5. Ryan January 25th, 2009 at 7:35 am

    Cano = 320 avg. 25 HR 350 OBP- cuz the guy never walks

  6. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:38 am

    And on another note -

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/01.....151965.htm

    Saint Joe – still showing the same class he did when he found a way to get rid of players who crossed him. Nice guy. I guess the economy has made it impossible for him to live on $7 million a year or whatever he’s getting. Well Hollywood IS the place for tell-all books!

    You’re all class, Joe. All class.

  7. MaineYankee January 25th, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Old(butwise)YanksFan

    That is a real good point. Alot of us can’t comprehend that living here where we have so much. I have talked to a man that lives in the Caribbean and he talked about the poverty that these players live in down there. He said that has had an impact on them that we can’t comprehend.

  8. tokyo roy January 25th, 2009 at 8:01 am

    “In an explosive new book called “The Yankee Years,” Torre gets most personal in his attacks against Alex Rodriguez, who he says was called “A-Fraud” by his teammates after he developed a “Single White Female”-like obsession with team captain Derek Jeter and asked for a personal clubhouse assistant to run errands for him. ”

    OUCH!

  9. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    “A-Fraud”? Really? That’s the “explosive” inside info? Is that why Joe had A-Rod in the 8th hole vs the tigers and made Alex the scape goat? Because he could get away with it inside the clubhouse? Lame.

  10. andrew33 January 25th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    i guess guaranteed hall of fame entry after his time with the yankees wasnt enough for joe torre … great manager and yankee but this wasnt necessary at all …

  11. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 8:20 am

    “Winter ball kept me in baseball, not going out or stuff like that,” Cano said. “The more you play, the more you learn.”

    I guess Robbie’s partying lifestyle is more than just rumor. Here’s hoping both he and Melky mature and reach their potential.

  12. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:20 am

    “…this wasnt necessary at all”

    It truly wasn’t.

  13. Vrsce January 25th, 2009 at 8:27 am

    trisha

    Joe was a great manager, however he has a huge ego and his pride was hurt (rightly or wrongly) by the ending of tenure.

  14. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Thanks Joe. I was hoping that for once we’d have a winter that wasnt a full fledged soap opera. So far, this offseason has mostly been about what’s best for the 2009 Yankees. Now,we have to worry about the effect this will have on A Rod’s fragile psyche.

    I bought into the perceived class that Joe Torre brought to the Yankees. As much as I loved the man, I’m very sad he had to undermine it by cashing in on a “book” of gossip mongering. My opinion of Joe Torre just went down as quickly as the ’04 team he “led”.

    For a man that supposedly respected Yankees tradition,Torre had nothing to gain by writing this. The fact that he decided to give it all up for money shows what a phony he really is. I’m embarrassed for myself because I bought into his “class act”.

  15. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 8:54 am

    Say it aint so Joe…..We all know it is hard to leave the Yanks and the truth is Cash and the Steinbrenners should have just fired you after the season…theydidnt apparently have the guts to do that either….was definitely time for a change….I guess the lower offer you took from the Dodgers wasnt an insult….anyone remember Casey and Yogi….they were gone after they were in the Series….and Joe….look forward not backward..your time with us was great…leave it at that…..

  16. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    Drive, though there still may be Yankee fans who rally to his defense, I have to say that I had my first real glimpse into Torre’s two faces when he made sure that Jeff Nelson wasn’t brought back to the Yankees after Nelson complained about something to the press. His vengeance was more important than the success of the team. I have always said the demise of that great Yankee team started with Nelson being let go. The bullpen, which had been such a Yankee stronghold, was never the same.

    I stopped buying into the St. Joe myth with that move.

  17. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Didnt see the new post

    Donnie Baseball 23
    January 25th, 2009 at 8:54 am
    If it is true that Torre rips the BOSS and Cashman in his new book and revals things that happen in the locker room Im sorry but I hope the Yankees never honor him. He claims teammates called A-ROD AFRAUD and that he was “obsessed” with perceived rival Derek Jeter. I respect him and thank him for all he did but this is just wrong. He has enough $$$ he doesnt need to air dirty laundry for extra cash. Im sorry I think its just wrong

  18. Vrsce January 25th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Joe is italian , so revenge can’t be ruled out.

  19. Trevor January 25th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Does this now mean his #6 is now available?

  20. Mr. Anderson January 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Let this be a lesson to all of you.

    No matter what you may believe, no matter how well you think you know players, how they live their lives, and who they are, the single irrevocable truth is this: You really don’t know these guys.

    Not Mariano, not Jorge, not Derek, not Arod, not Cano, not anyone. These guys are entertainers, they live and enjoy a lifestyle that 99.99 percent of us will never ever know. Just because they are in the public eye doesn’t mean that we really know what they are like.

    That’s the part of fandom that always gets me. People have to understand the disconnect that exists between entertainers and the general public. And until people come to grips with it, they will be surprised when someone they think they know that is beyond approach, like Joe Torre, writes a tell all book and presumably airs dirty laundry that really doesn’t need to be aired. When he does something that would seem so totally out of character with the image of Torre we had become so used to for 14 years.

    And I am not even blaming Joe Torre necessarily. I’m not going to hold him to a higher moral standard just because he is a baseball manager. He’s human, and is subject to the same jealousies, emotions, and feelings that we have and act upon.

    I feel that Joe got more than a fair shake while he was in NY. Considering the resources and the advantages he was given as Yankee manager, he deserved to get fired more than once toward the end of his tenure. Mismanaging the 2003 WS, the Collapse of 2004, The first round exits in 05-07, but then asking for a contract extension at the end of it all?
    He lost perspective on how much a baseball manager was worth.

    But the Yankees handled his exit poorly, took digs at him all last season, and even left him completely out of the festivities of the closing out of Yankee Stadium, as if he was never the Yankee manager. The Yankee brass can get really petty and make themselves really small when they don’t get their way. Joe was right in that they should have just fired him.

    The point is this: Joe telling us of his grievances toward the end of his Yankee tenure is unfortunate. It really didn’t need to be done. No one, Not Joe or any of his players, or Cashman or the Yankees is going to be better for this book coming out. However, what ever messy details that we come to know about the players and organization should not shock or appall us.

    As sports fans, we have to drop the visage that we know these guys. It doesn’t mean that we can’t enjoy sports and all of the great things that comes with watching and participating in them. It simply mean that we have got to stop being so naive about the whole thing.

  21. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Eddie Curry’s life keeps getting worse:

    The mother of former Chicago Bulls player Eddy Curry’s 3-year-old son and and her infant daughter were shot and killed in her South Loop apartment, according to the Chicago Tribune.

    http://www.nbcchicago.com/spor.....tment.html

  22. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am

    Trevor
    January 25th, 2009 at 9:05 am
    Does this now mean his #6 is now available?

    #6 should now be retired in honor of Roy White:)

  23. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Torre with a little tell-all book?
    Joe seems like a typical bitter old man..where did happy and classy Saint Joe go?
    Shocking..just shocking. ;)

  24. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 am

    “Joe is italian , so revenge can’t be ruled out.”

    :lol:

    I think he must definitely be Sicilian!

  25. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    Mr. Anderson people shouldn’t need this example to understand they don’t know players. If an adult makes judgments of people they don’t know (particularly based on media coverage by journalists who have their own biases) they will never get it.

    I wonder how media people will respond to this. They (and fans) are good at justifying the actions and words of people they don’t like while ripping those who they do not like for doing the same thing.

    Joe Torre is the author of the book, he needs to take all the questions. The Yankees (from executives to players) should not say one word about this. He wanted to write this after being in NY and knowing how even one sentence would get played up and its his right. But it doesn’t make me view the team, the players he names or Cashman any differently. I cheer the uniform and though I have respect for Joe, he doesn’t wear it. So, my only concern is the Yankees and hoping this doesn’t become an issue for the team.

  26. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    Tom January 25th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Eddie Curry’s life keeps getting worse:

    The mother of former Chicago Bulls player Eddy Curry’s 3-year-old son and and her infant daughter were shot and killed in her South Loop apartment, according to the Chicago Tribune.

    ======================================================

    Horrifying news for Eddy. Just horrible.

  27. Vrsce January 25th, 2009 at 9:13 am

    At least it is now very clear that he had to go.
    Good riddance to the sour old goat.
    He reminds me of GB7.

  28. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    trisha,

    I’m Calabrese. Revenge goes both ways:)

  29. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    Sad article about the mother and baby. Who can look at anyone, but particularly a baby and take her life?

  30. Trevor January 25th, 2009 at 9:15 am

    Chicago has got to one of the most violent cities in America. Crime is high there. First Jennifer Hudson family now Eddie Curry.

  31. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Joe showed class and guts in walking away from the offer the Yanks gave him. Steinbrenners and Cash showed a lack of class and guts in not firing him. All parties knew it was time for a change. No one is indispensable and upper management are the ones who have to make these tough decisions. It is time for a new era that is hopefully now beginning. The book is a rehash of old news. Joe you made us so proud as a Yank…. File this new book under “classless unnecessary BS”…I don’t expect anything more from a Dodger.

  32. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 9:19 am

    The book will be long forgotten in 3 months. Didn’t Damon write a book that bashed Alex?

  33. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:23 am

    Damon does not equal Joe Torre. But I hope it is forgotten come ST time.

  34. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:23 am

    “At least it is now very clear that he had to go.
    Good riddance to the sour old goat.
    He reminds me of GB7.”

    Good call on both fronts VRSCE!

    “I’m Calabrese. Revenge goes both ways:)”

    :D

    We’re Rome and Naples. I think the desire for revenge must be replaced by the desire to eat as you go further north!!!

  35. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Joe was beloved here and I think alot of people were on his side last year. He couldve came back in time here and get the cheer he deserved. He has ruined that for a couple of dollars. To me he should never be honored after this. He doesnt deserve his number retired. When it comes time for the hall of fame the hall can do what they want but Im pretty sure all of his WS titles will say NY YANKEES he wont get one with the Dodgers, yet wants to bash the team that gave him a chance and George took shots for that hire.

  36. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Has anyone yet heard where the Torre book signing will be?

    Can I count on you all being there?

    What if Joe agrees to allow pictures? Will you take the opportunity?
    (I already have mine)

  37. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:30 am

    able 21 – are you being funny?

  38. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    “I wonder how media people will respond to this. They (and fans) are good at justifying the actions and words of people they don’t like while ripping those who they do not like for doing the same thing.”

    That should be justifying the actions and words of people they DO like, while ripping those they do not like for doing the same thing.

  39. John_Halfz January 25th, 2009 at 9:32 am

    A lot of manufactured anger! Honestly, he wrote a “tell-all” book, and that was the nastiest angle the Post could come up with? That he didn’t care for A-Rod or the owners?

    Besides the fact that the field manager is mostly irrelevant, I can’t say I’m a particular Joe lover. But, still. It’s the gossip column in the New York Post and they can barely come up with anything inflammatory.

    It’s hard to imagine anyone being predisposed to believe that Torre is a miserable person to be around, when the competition is the adolescent A-Rod and the self-obsessed ownership clan. I love the team, and I go to games (I go to Knicks games, too), but the people who run the team must be real pains in the ass.

    Propping up George Steinbrenner like a third-world dictator. Giving statements through Howard Rubenstein. Basically, all you need to know about George is that his fear of dust is such that he used to make his wife vacuum the house more than once a day.

  40. John_Halfz January 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    The whole notion of “Yankee class” is ridiculous. It was never applicable. Don Mattingly and Derek Jeter one of a few players to embody “class.” But the first thing that I think of when I think of Don Mattingly is Ruben Sierra moonwalking around the bases after his HR in Game 2 of the 1995 ALDS. And then I start thinking of George putting people out there to “find dirt” on Dave Winfield. Or Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia. Or Shane Spencer urinating in a parking lot off the LIE. Or Roger Clemens. Or Roger Clemens. Or Roger Clemens.

    Give it up. Behind the weird grooming rules are a bunch of lunatic win-at-all-costs rich old men whose insane impulses are occasionally reined in by the actual baseball minds.

  41. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    George Steinbrenner certainly would have been a pain in the rear to work for. Be that as it may, anyone old enough to remember the condition of the franchise before he bought it appreciates his restoration.

  42. pat January 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    If A-Rod didn’t have a “single white female” attraction to Jeter he might be the only one who wants the Yankees to win who doesn’t. Men want to be him, women want to date him and the occasional person silly enough to cross him no longer calls NY home. :wink:

  43. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    My point is that many of those who now apparently question Joe’s motives in writing the book may be also looking for ways to distance themselves from the fact that they were Joe groupies who, if he wrote a book that said the opposite, would be on line in two seconds. Those are the same exact people who routinely and blindly accepted his moves while manager, hanging on every word; listening to every postgame and quoting him like a saint who delivered divine messages.

    Hey – sometime the message ain’t so divine

  44. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Huggins-McCarthy-Stengel-and-Torre

    A great piece in astrosdaily of all places on these big four and all the Yankee mgrs…the more things change…”New York’s first manager was Clark Griffith, but he became tired of the constant second-guessing of the two owners and late in the 1908 season resigned.”

    http://www.astrosdaily.com/col.....37fan.html

  45. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    “Torre gets most personal in his attacks against Alex Rodriguez, who he says was called “A-Fraud” by his teammates after he developed a *”Single White Female”-like obsession* with team captain Derek Jeter and asked for a personal clubhouse assistant to run errands for him.”

    Sounds pretty nasty to me!

    John_Halfz, though you may not think of the Yankees as a classy organization, it really appears that most other people, players and teams have bought into it since players always refer to having to change their ways once they join the Yankees – and they don’t mean that they’ve had to LOWER their standards!

    Perhaps the incidents you’ve managed to remember in a very long span of baseball time aren’t really enough to sully the team in the way you seem disposed to do.

    Yes Shane Spencer, Karim Garcia and Roger Clemens. All long-standing members of the New York Yankees and the ones people always associate with the Yankees.

    “Give it up. Behind the weird grooming rules are a bunch of lunatic win-at-all-costs rich old men whose insane impulses are occasionally reined in by the actual baseball minds.”

    Um, I don’t think so.

  46. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    able 21, I see what you’re saying. I can say I wasn’t one of them.

  47. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Trisha. Whether you did or did not is of no moment. I wasn’t looking to make this into a confessional. It was more of a global observation.

  48. YankeeRay January 25th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    F Joe Torre and take away his only chance to even make a dent in the NL west.
    Cmon Cash, move Matsui and Nady and go get Manny so we can make that trip down the canyon this year.
    If Donnie endorses him then all the nay sayers on here should get on board and understand that Manny would help the younger players and not hurt them as some suggested.
    He would take pressure off Arod and Tex and be the line up link to a World Championship.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/01.....151989.htm

  49. Bill January 25th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    For those of you old enough to remember the Beatles, Joe Torre is the “Ringo Starr” of baseball. A nice, likeable guy who was in the right place at the right time. Just as the Beatles booted drummer Pete Best, in favor of Ringo, as they were on the verge of greatness, the NYY booted Buck Showalter just as the team started its winning ways. Joe inherited a team built by Stick, Buck et al. He slept his way through most of the glory years and should have been fired after his team blew a 3-0 lead to archrival Boston, a feat no other team or manager has done in the history of the game. When he is inducted into the HOF,I hope he remembers to thank, George, Stick, Cash and all his players, without whom he’d be remembered as a good player and a .500 manager who couldn’t get into the HOF without a ticket.

  50. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Re: ‘A-fraud’ obsessed with Jeter

    I think the real question is, how did Jeter feel about Arod’s SWF-like obsession?

    I guess we’ll all have to wait for Jete’s tell-all book.

  51. yanksince57-was this 1959 or is it 1965? January 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    we have to repeat that 90 year old phrase “SAY IT AIN’T SO JOE!”

  52. pat January 25th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    From ESPN.com

    “Cashman wouldn’t comment on the book when contacted Sunday by ESPN.
    Cashman, who said he’s in regular contact with Torre, told ESPN he didn’t know the context of the portrayal and didn’t know if the reported comments were from Torre or Verducci.”

  53. Ham Fighters January 25th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    personally i pretty much believe joe. it seems to me that the yankees ‘chemistry’ took a nosedive when arod came and hasnt been right since. i was happy when he opted out and very pissed when they crawled back to him and gave him more than boras has originally asked for. i seriously question whether any team with arod as the centerpiece can win. of course im hoping they can but i question it.

    as for joe, the yankees let him go in a shabby manner so they should have expected some revenge. im sure the publisher and the post are putting it in the worst possible light b/c nobody want to read the parts where he compliments the team, the city and the fans and almost all of his players. you have to buy the bood to read that stuff

  54. A-Jax January 25th, 2009 at 10:09 am

    Verducci = Fired by YES
    Torre = left or was forced to leave (in his mind)

    Top 10 reasons Torry is Bitter…

    1. He never wanted to leave the Yankees
    2. He currently has an immature team and had to hold 13 team meetings last year
    3. Girardi has the type of organizational support he never had
    4. He was Hank’s favorite target last year
    5. He knows he would have missed the playoffs in a weak division without Manny
    6. His owner is cheap and didn’t want to pay for Santana & Sabathia, and now…
    7. Kent, Lowe, Saito, Beimel, Park, Maddux & Penny could all be gone with very few replacements so far
    8. He got Igawa & Hawkins
    9. Girardi got CC, Burnett & Tex
    10. He knows the Yankees will be very successful without him

    The funny thing about Torre is that Cashman saved his behind in 2005 & 2006. After the 2006 season 70% of the media and fans wanted him fired after his disastrous showing vs Texas.

  55. A-Jax January 25th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    oopps…

    The funny thing about Torre is that Cashman saved his behind in 2005 & 2006. After the 2006 season 70% of the media and fans wanted him fired after his disastrous showing vs Detroit.

  56. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 10:14 am

    I wish this was surprising to me, but sadly it’s not. Torre showed his true colors when he found a $ 5 million salary plus bonuses to be “insulting”. It was pure nonsense then and remains so. Most people who underperform get pay cuts and Torre’s post-season failures did not warrant maintaining that inflated salary.

    Now this pissy little tome to take shots at others from the safety of L.A. So much for # 6 joining monument park. If it was up to be the number would be assigned to Angel Berroa. Turns out “Clueless Joe” wasn’t erroneous headline… just a prediction of future behavior.

  57. John_Halfz January 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    First of all, field managers are irrelevant. They have very little effect on the outcome of games.

    Second of all, postseasons are random small sample size exercises. You control against the vagaries of chance the best you can.

    But the froth reserved for Joe Torre after 2006 was moronic. The team couldn’t hit a lick in that series. Even 2004. What should he have done? Held a shotgun to Vazquez’ head before Game 7? As much as I hate to admit it, the Red Sox were a really good team that managed to win four games in a row (the first with a bit of umpire help). As much as people like the elevate the postseason, it was bound to happen eventually, and is no less surprising than the Yankees’ 5 game sweep in Boston a couple of seasons later.

  58. Tex's New Best Friend January 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    I know A-Rod is everyone’s favorite target but come on.

    I think that most of us hoped Joe Torre was above this, but knew it was only a matter of time.

    As one of the few who never jumps off the a-rod bandwagon, i still feel like we are a better team with him than without. And i certainly dont care if a-rod was obsessed with Jeter or whatever ridiculous private clubhouse stuff Torre feels the need to spill.

  59. Global Warming January 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    ““A-Fraud”? Really? That’s the “explosive” inside info? Is that why Joe had A-Rod in the 8th hole vs the tigers and made Alex the scape goat? Because he could get away with it inside the clubhouse? Lame.”

    No, he had him in the 8th hole because he was abysmal going into that game. Then he whines after the game and blames his trouble on Torre like putting him in the 8th hole made him go 0-4.

    Of course you never hear anything about Torre doing the same EXACT thing with Giambi during the 03 ALCS. You know putting him down to 7th spot of Game 7 and Giambi delivering with two home runs.

    Clown.

  60. gayle January 25th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    Hate to tell everyone who thinks this books is a problem this will not be a distraction for the team. It is a one day story today and maybe a one week story when the book comes out and Joe does his publicity tour.

    Reporters will ask the players if they have read the book and if they have any comment on it. Yankee players will respon no and no and that will be the end of it.

    It should come as no suprise to anyone that has followed the team his comment about Alex if you remember he was the “source” for Verducci’s SI article about Alex when that came out. Torre and Verducci have history as Verducci wrote Torre’s first book. We have heard these Alex stories before. To me unless he says something that is really earth shattering this is all old news and everyone except torre maybe seemto have moved on.

  61. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    Re: the SWF obsession. Most players go out of their way to specifically name Jeter because #1 he does do everything (we see) the right way and #2 everyone knows he’s the fan and media darling. Sabathia, Damon, Giambi, Tex…almost every new Yankee goes out of his way to mention the captain.

    I always say you can be bitter and telling the truth. Who really knows about this book. this is the Post. Some of this could be Torre’s beliefs or it could be Verducci’s characterization of Torre’s words. But just like players are responsible for their agents same applies here. I have to believe Torre had final say over what goes in the book. So once we read the book for ourselves whatever is said ultimately rests with Torre.

  62. bru January 25th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    torre probably ripped the players & people he didn’t like or connect with,arod being one of them.

    this book won’t change anything.it is just a manager being human & speaking his opinions.

    i wish he took the high road but he didn’t.truth of the matter is that torre is probably right.we see that arod is strange.it doesn’t make him a bad person.

    i care about the team winning,nothing else.

  63. Sean Serritella January 25th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    I don’t think it was Torre’s fault for the meltdown. He had a different group of players. He didn’t have the type of players he had in the 90′s that he had in the 2000′s. Wow, the 90′s sounds so old.

  64. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    “For those of you old enough to remember the Beatles, Joe Torre is the “Ringo Starr” of baseball. A nice, likeable guy who was in the right place at the right time.”

    right . he just happened to be in the right place to hit .297 in 18 years of a border line hall of fame career playing with the likes of aaron,spahn,gibson, brock,carlton.

    he was a catcher for a significant portion of his career so he saw the whole game, hitting and pitching. the man knew the game as well as anyone who’s ever played it.

    i didn’t know about this book until today, but anyone who believes the baloney that the new yankees under cashman and the little steins have it all together probably should read a book by the ultimate insider.

    if torre is a “beatle”. than cashman is a record promoter. we all know important they are as far as the real baseball music.

    this book is just what this present administration needs because there are too many true believers out there who don’t question what they’re doing. as far as the yankees making torre? i guess they got him into the playoffs with the dodgers this year.

  65. Fran January 25th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    This isn’t the first time Torre threw Alex under the bus. He did it with that Sports Illustrated article two years ago when he told about “confidential” meetings with Alex and his relationship with Giambi. I think Verducci wrote that article with Joe as well.

    And if that’s how Torre felt about things, why did he want to stay and ask for a two year contract exntension?

  66. Frankie speaking . . . January 25th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    For all his time with the Yankees, Torre was called Mr. Torre by the Captain.
    Let’s see if that flys any longer.

  67. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Sorry Manny got the Dodgers into the playoffs

  68. Just another handle. January 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Ham Fighters

    We must be soulmates. lol

    I totally agree that team chemistry has been a disaster with Afraud in the mix. Likewise I was both elated that he opted out and then p.o. when they threw way more money than was warranted at him to get him back. I totally blame that on the Stein boys.

    With the moves made in this offseason they have definitely shored up the weakest links of the team, pitching and defense. Those moves will be the reason they get back to postseason play despite SWF. Cashman takes a lot of heat but he definitely played his cards right this offseason. Especially the addition by subtraction of not offering Abreu arbitration.

    Abreu and a host of other players must be ready to slit their wrists over the lack of a robust f.a. market. I think Manny will be Barry this year. To wit, no contract offer. No team wants to pay him what he wants and any team that gets him for less has to be aware that an unhappy Manny is just not as productive as well as a clubhouse distraction.

  69. bru January 25th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    people here are doing it again,pretending to know what happened,what will happen & thinking they know anything about any player.

    all we can tell or see is how a player carries himself on the field & in interviews.

    don’t forget arod came late in the torre era & things didn’t go well after he arrived.winning heals everything.

    the bottom line is that at the end of torre’s era the pitching was terrible.a ws team has to have great pitching,defense,bullpen,luck mixed with the right veterans & youth.

    this is exactly why i wan’t the yankees to get one more pitcher.forget payroll.

    hughes,kennedy,acevez,coke,giese & whoever else should be used as debth,for spot starts & to cover injuries.

    we have
    cc
    burnett
    wang
    joba for 150 innings after that no guarantees.

    what happens if none of the kids work out & we have an injury or two?

    imo you don’t give a spot to a pitcher unless he is proven.if joba was a 200 innings pitcher it would be different but a lot of our pitching will be allocated towards covering him.

    we have come too far to get cheap now.one more pitcher that can give us 200 innings will go a long way.it slots joba properly,makes it easier to manipulate joba’s innings,etc…

    it is too risky to take a chance.not one of hughes,kennedy,etc… has proven that they can pitch in the majors.

  70. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    the more i think about this book , even without reading it, i like it that torre is putting it all right out there because if cashman and the yankee owners know what they’re doing, they’ll answer by creating a team that wins #27.

    so far they haven’t done diddly except spend a whole lot of money. anyone could do that. and unless they do all the other things in addition to spending the money, they could miss the playoffs a second year in a row.

    if this happens then maybe the cashman true believers will take a closer look back at torre’s view of things in this book. i look forward to this book because it questions authority which i think is almost always the right way to go .

    what are supporters of the present administration afraid of? all the yankees have to do is win and the criticisms go away. are they maybe planning on not winning? so far cashman talks a good game, but he hasn’t won diddly he’s been in total control.

    as i said, i welcome this book which you would think would light a fire under cashman and the others who were in charge of the first failure to make the playoffs in 14 years.

  71. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    I like and respect Joe Torre however; I think it was time for a change. The Yankees (at best) were inept in their negotiations with him.

    “The 477-page tell-all, which The Post purchased from a city bookstore last week,”
    I don’t understand this quote, is this book for sale?

    If the tone of this book is as the Post depicts it, I will be very disappointed.

  72. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Randy 1 —

    Have you ever loked at Torre’s pre-Yankees managerial record? Let me help you… 14 years, one first place finish in his first year in Atlanta. Dassit

    He deserves credit for the job he did with the Yankees, but the record is pretty clear that the Yankees made him more than the other way around.

    For thos who accuse ARod of being desperate for attention this takes that argument to a whole new level. I fail to understand the motivation behind it.

  73. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    I’m not buying this chemistry thing; at least not as much as others. People who seem to think the Yanks lost chemistry when they gained A-Rod also seem to forget pitching has not been what it once has been. There was no A-Rod when the Yanks didn’t win in 2001-2003.

    Emergency room personnel, firefighters, cops and the military all seem to get the job done despite not getting along with their mates. I know my dysfunctional Army unit outperformed all units. But somehow millionaires can’t seem to get the job in sports done unless they like each other.

    I say teams who have Alex and TO should be happy. When you have those guys everyone seems to forget what you (the other players) aren’t doing. Your walks, your errors, your GIDP, your strike outs, your managing decisions always seem to be less detrimental than the problem child.

  74. disco stu January 25th, 2009 at 11:02 am

    I always thought that Torre would and publish a memoir about his years with the Yankees … I am not suprised that he wrote it.

    What I am suprised about is that he did so soon after leaving the Yankees and still managing the Dodgers (which I believe will be his last job).

    I think he feels a tremendous amount of bitterness toward the Yankees over the way things broke down over the last few years he was here and this was an opportunity to air his feelings.

    However, without having had the benefit of reading the book, I hope he takes accountability and looks at his own part in how everything seemed to fall apart. From the 9th inning of Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS to the time he left, there were plenty of curious moves he made that cost the Yankees and created a bigger divide between him and management.

    Will he own up to them and admit his own mistakes? That should be interesting to see.

    Also, I find it rather bush league that Torre would essentially crticize A-Rod by using his own players comments about him for his book. That is sort of like “criticism by proxy” … they are not his words, but he is reporting them … so it makes it look like he is disparaging Arod without directly doing so. Why feel compelled to disclose that information? What ax does he have to grind with Arod? He may be a prima donna, but he also won 2 MVP awards on Torre’s watch as Yankee manager and in both of those seasons (’05 and ’07) basically carried the Yankees to the post season.

    Bottom line, Torre has every right to do what he wants, but so do I … and my initial response, is that I have lost respect for him.

  75. bru January 25th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    manny was what the dodgers needed to get them too the playoffs.

    why sign manny unless you think he can get you over the top???

    the red sox had manny for years & didn’t win a thing.only after the sox built a good pitching staff they won the ws.

    put manny on the nationals & let’s see him take them to the playoffs.

    pitching is what it is all about.

    if a few teams have the same pitching,era,etc… then other factors come into play like offense,defense & so on but pitching,pitching debth is where it starts & ends.

  76. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    “Also, I find it rather bush league that Torre would essentially crticize A-Rod by using his own players comments about him for his book.”

    And, will we see a media game of guess which current player said crap about A-Rod?

  77. Bob January 25th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    The Yanks are becoming like the Sox, screwing over our stars after they leave, and changing the opinion of them from loved to trash. I wish Arod had NEVER resigned, he is like the TO of baseball,. he is a cancer, and everything around him turns to crap.

  78. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am

    LOL Joe – and this is a guy we want back so that we can retire his number? OOh, taking swipes at A-Rod, a guy who may be a bit odd (I don’t see anything wrong with that -and I still think he’s a very decent guy), but works his tail off? Ooh Joe – like no one has ever done that before. I have serious doubts about the validity of what Joe is saying, especially since I don’t think it’s kosher to be gleeful about someone’s insecurities, at least gleeful enough to do a tell-all book. Also, is Joe blaming Alex and Alex only for the Yankees’ last few post-season performances? How about coaxing winning performances out of Jeter, Cano, the pitching staff, Posada, etc………? Alex is an easy target and Joe knew that he could sell books by taking shots at him…….This really makes me sick.

    I have no clue about A-Rod’s supposed “obsession” with Jeter. Maybe A-Rod felt very badly about his comments in GQ a few years back and he was trying to make amends. From all accounts, Jeter is the type to hold grudges. If Alex is this insecure, it probably made him feel even worse. I’m not going to blame him because he wanted Jeter’s forgiveness.

    Odd that he would bash Cashman – Cash is extremely well-liked and well-respected. If Cashman didn’t back Joe up, then maybe it’s because the man was fighting to keep his own job?

    As far as I’m concerned, this is the nail in the coffin. The Yankees should retire #21 before they retire #6 and since #21 should not be retired, well……………

  79. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Global Warming, are you seriously comparing Giambi to A-Rod? Giambi, a steroid user? Putting A-Rod in the 8th spot was Joe’s idea of genius?

    Why am I not surprised that this book is being supported by A-Rod haters?

  80. bodhisattva January 25th, 2009 at 11:16 am

    trisha – New York Yankees – 2009 World Series Champions
    January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 am
    “Joe is italian , so revenge can’t be ruled out.”

    I think he must definitely be Sicilian!

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    I don’t know if he is, but you definitely are not Sicilian, or you wouldn’t have posted this. I definitely am Sicilian, and I take exception to it.

  81. bru January 25th, 2009 at 11:16 am

    i do believe because of arod’s personality it has caused him to press too hard causing slumps.

    manny,jeter,etc… are who they are because they are relaxed & don’t seem to let a lot bother them.

    i think the yankees should trade swisher or nady for a pitcher or sign one,maybe lannan from the nationals.he is a lefty who will give you 200 innings.

    cc
    burnett
    wang
    lannan
    joba

    if we can trade nady for lannan we will have enough money to sign that 8th inning guy who i believe is still out there without increasing payroll wich might allow us to trade a few pen arms.

  82. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Im sorry you can not compare AROD to TO. TO complains about everything shows up his teammates and coaches during the game and after. AROD may not be clutch (yet hopefully) but he doesnt complain about not getting good pitches to hit because guys around him stink, or that they need to get a new hitting coach in there to change things up. Sorry to say AROD is no where near TO.

  83. murry hill yankeefan January 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    Joe just sold out his former players and team, he’s just a rat now.

  84. Casey January 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am

    For all that has been thrown at him, A-Rod has chosen to take the high road more times than any of us would have.

    Some twisted part of me hopes when he retires someone gives him a big dose of truth serum and he lets it rip.

    If just mentioning A-Rod in your book guarantees it to be a best seller, penning a whole book in his own words could blow out Amazon’s server.

  85. bodhisattva January 25th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Betsy

    I have no clue about A-Rod’s supposed “obsession” with Jeter. Maybe A-Rod felt very badly about his comments in GQ a few years back and he was trying to make amends. From all accounts, Jeter is the type to hold grudges. If Alex is this insecure, it probably made him feel even worse. I’m not going to blame him because he wanted Jeter’s forgiveness.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    RIght, it’s probably more complex. Torre should not have talked about the players. That’s incredibly indiscreet for a manager to tell tales from inside his clubhouse. I have lost respect for him. He didn’t say it in a moment of pique, he calculated what he would reveal in a book for profit, and those guys are still in that clubhouse. I’m sure this won’t make life for Jeter more comfortable, either.

    Sickening.

  86. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    86w183-

    let’s cut right to the chase. you like numbers. i like people who can play the game.

    you’re on the side of the “suits”, and i’m on the side the the players who have played the game.

    torre represents players who have played the game as well as anyone. he is the personification of baseball experience, and he has a depth of baseball knowledge that cashman or any yankee owner will never understand. or anyone who simply mines baseball data.

    a place should have been made in the yankee organization for torre. maybe he should have stepped aside as manager because everyone can get stale , but you don’t want to lose a lifetime of real baseball experience that compares with anyone who has ever played the game.

    torre will get his number retired with the yankees. cashman may be done with the yankees as soon as this next fall if the yankees don’t make the playoffs.

    so this book is great. it draws the battle lines again. you sound like you actually think you know more about baseball than torre because you are so rational and stat fluent. my opinion is you’re smart enough to spell “delusional”.

    game on 86w183. prove you’re right by predicting what the yankees will do. i like it that cashman signed the big three this winter, but i don’t see any others changes so far. will all the pieces be put together or will this be another brain dead team like last year put together by a “suit”?

  87. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 11:23 am

    Casey – You might have a point. One day Arod’s lips won’t be so purple because he’ll stop biting them.
    Then again maybe some SWF will get simply him a new shade of lip gloss

  88. m January 25th, 2009 at 11:29 am

    able,

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3859198

    Book signing at the Yogi museum. Don’t know if it’s the tell-all book, lol. What would Yogi say if Torre dropped a bombshell at a reading?

    I will give Torre a pass for anything that happens when he was in pinstripes. But an expose is not cool at all, especially when he got paid extra to deal with the crap that goes on in NY. I’m a little disappointed in Torre. He seemed to be above this kind of thing.

  89. bru January 25th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    hollywood is getting to torre & his true colors are showing.

    i always liked torre because he always took the high road & you have to respect a person for that because it is very hard to do.

    this book does nobody any good except torre.it seems like torre targeted arod,cashman to maximize the sales & make people pay attention wich is where i have a problem with it.

    is arod any worse than leyeritz,justice,mendoza & the many other low profile players that played under torre???

    i would respect torre more if he came out with a book explaining how he felt & why instead of attacking players & repeating what other players said & thought.

  90. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    m – Thanks for alerting us on this.

    I wonder how the Yankees will feel about Yogi providing a book signing forum for Joe?

  91. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    In fairness to Torre he didn’t decide what the Post would print. This could be one little snippet. And he can’t talk about his Yankees years and not talk about Cashman, A-Rod and the end of his tenure there.

    I would hope he didn’t feel the need to go into Alex’s insecurities. If thats for anyone to write its Alex. These players aren’t inanimate objects. Whatever his issues are he seems to handle them enough to be a pretty overall decent person.

  92. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    “I wonder how the Yankees will feel about Yogi providing a book signing forum for Joe?”

    when will you guys understand that yogi and joe are the real yankees.

    jeter, posada, rivera, will laugh at this book. they won’t comment, but they’ll laugh because it’s being told straight.

    cashman and the little steins as the”yankees”? that’s a good one.

  93. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Re: Alex’s insecurities?

    He’s a grown man. He’s a baseball player. I don’t give a flying you know what about his feelings.

  94. m January 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    lara,

    Why does he need to let people know how “he feels”?

    randy l,

    The dynasty Yankees will be laughing because they probably aren’t lampooned or bashed.

  95. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    “as for joe, the yankees let him go in a shabby manner so they should have expected some revenge.”

    Absoutely. After all Yogi was treated REALLY poorly and he wrote a tell-all book immediately!

    Oh. He didn’t? Guess Yogi has some class.

    ;)

    Absolutely agree about the extremely immature aspect to anyone who would throw the whole team under the bus by talking about players talking about other players. You probably can’t get much more pathetic. Nice guy.

    P.S. I never bought the Saint Joe BS. It was well known that anyone who went to the press got Torre’s hairy eye ball and soon found themselves on the outs with the Yankees.

    able 21 – I wasn’t confessing to you. Funny how when you go out of your way to give some posters their due they feel the need to play king of the mountain.

  96. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    I don’t think Torre is above anything and this doesn’t surprise me in the least. Bodhisattva, great point about Joe not being hostage to emotion here. He was very calculated in this – IMO, this is not a tell-all book so much as it is an opportunity for revenge. Is Joe 5 years old?

    If A-Rod truly is attacked in the book, then I would expect his teammates to defend him. If they don’t, then this is not a real team. In any case, the Yankees should set a precedent in ST – tell the media that they are not talking about this at all. If they have any questions, they can go ask Joe.

    I’m go glad Joe got his jollies out of revealing private stuff in the clubhouse and A-Rod’s insecurities. I’m so glad that that makes him feel better…..Sheesh.

  97. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    “when will you guys understand that yogi and joe are the real yankees.

    jeter, posada, rivera, will laugh at this book. they won’t comment, but they’ll laugh because it’s being told straight.

    cashman and the little steins as the”yankees”? that’s a good one.”

    And do the “real” Yankees draw a line in the sandbox too? I’ve come to learn that equating childish behavior to high school is an insult to high school kids. Some adults are the more childish people on the planet.

    I’d hope the Yankees are smart enough not to label themselves regarding “real” and “earning stripes” like those on the outside do and just play the damn game.

  98. DT January 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    randy l
    Torre will get his number retired with the Yankees.

    I seriously doubt that.
    Joe McCarthy won 7 World Series – is his number retired?

    It’s not just numbers. Billy for all his faults was a fan favorite. So was Casey. They are the only managers with retired numbers. (plus Billy played on WS Yankee teams)

    There is too much bad blood for Torre’s number to ever be retired. Maybe he’ll get a plaque in Monument Park – someday.

  99. Casey January 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    “they won’t comment, but they’ll laugh because it’s being told straight.”

    Then shame on them. If you stand by the sentiments, stand by the words, even if someone else reported them coming out of your mouth.

  100. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    And as to the “other side” of the story, for all of the people who believe Torre was treated shabbily by the Yankees, there are probably as many (present company included) who think he should have been fired after 2006, was darned lucky to see 2007, and should have thanked his lucky stars he was offered a contract at all.

  101. Fran January 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Betsy – I think that you are right about the team not commenting on things that Torre said about the clubhouse. After all the players always say that the clubhouse is the inner sanctum and there is an unwritten rule that you never violate that or talk about anything that happens in there. Even Jeter, for what very little information he gives out, doesn’t comment on what is talked about in the clubhouse.

  102. m January 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    That was an awkward sentence, let’s try again.

    The dynasty Yankees won’t be laughing if they’re lampooned or bashed in the book. But I doubt it. Even Torre doesn’t want to be shunned by Jeter. haha.

  103. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    Betsy -

    Your 11:46 am post is right on the money. All of it very well said.

  104. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “lara,

    Why does he need to let people know how “he feels”?”

    M is that for me regarding Alex? If so, then I didn’t say he NEEDS to let people know how he feels. My point was that I (emphasis on I) don’t think its for Joe or anyone else to go into. And IF anyone talks about it, that it should be Alex if he so CHOOSES.

  105. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    “Even Torre doesn’t want to be shunned by Jeter.”

    :D

    Actually I would guess that Jeter would be a little disappointed in Mr. Torre since Jeter is really big on shutting up and doing the job and not gossiping about clubhouse matters.

  106. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Randy,

    Joe Torre likes numbers too. Dollar signs.

    There is no logical reason, other than money, to write this book.

    Its his “right” to feel “screwed” by the Yankees. Doesn’t make it accurate but, its his right to feel that way.

    The Yankees feel he mailed in the last 3 years of his time in NY. Particularly in the post-season, where he was consistently outmanaged since 2004.

    He came to the ballpark later and later. He delegated almost everything, except his pre-game media gabfests, to his coaching staff, and became obscessed with his Yankee legacy.

    I guess there are two sides to every story. He feels “screwed” and the Yankees feel they paid a guy, who was having major financial problems prior his taking the gig, over 60 million bucks (plus endorsements), gave him the resources necessary to help field a team that won 4 titles, assuring his trip to the Hall of Fame.

    Both sides have beefs. Some legitimate, some not.

    However, only one side decided to write a book.

    His friends in the media will say otherwise but, the book makes Joe Torre look VERY small.

    Taking shots at Arod because he’s a diva? That’s not exactly news.

    However, Arod is a pretty damn good teammate, despite being a diva. Yes, you can be both. Unlike TO.

    The book, which I have an advance copy of and recently read, makes Joe look like a bitter old man.

    He should have taken the high road.

    Now? He loses a lot of the fan support he had after he got his “insulting” offer.

    I hope the money he got for it was worth it.

  107. GreenBeret7 January 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am

    joe McCarthy didn’t wear a uniform number.

  108. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am

    bodhisattva, I made the comment about Sicily more tongue in cheek than anything because it’s the home of the mafia and nobody seems to do revenge better than the mafia!!!

    :D

  109. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Trisha – lighten up please. All that I said was I was not directing my comments at you personally. No need to try to piss me off as I am not looking to fight. Besides, you alresdy pissed off the Sicilians here and that should be enough to make you watch your back.
    (It’s a joke, really)

  110. Fran January 25th, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Hey Trisha – Torre was definitely given some rope – the collapse to the Red Sox could have gotten him fired. He survived that and then more playoff collapses in the first round. And he still wanted to stay and manage for the brass that he ripped.

  111. Miggs January 25th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    “He was very calculated in this – IMO, this is not a tell-all book so much as it is an opportunity for revenge. Is Joe 5 years old?

    If A-Rod truly is attacked in the book, then I would expect his teammates to defend him. If they don’t, then this is not a real team.”

    Come on, you’re not serious are you? An opportunity for revenge? You’ve got to be kidding me.

    We have a blurb in the NY Post, the POST. They apparently purchased the book and all they could find in 500 pages is a few digs at A Rod and saying Cash didn’t support him.

    This should be classified as a “calculated tell all book” to get “revenge”? Of course the Post is going to include the worst stuff in the article. If that’s the worst he said in a 500 page book detailing 14 years in pinstripes I doubt its going to cause much controversy.

    In regards to A Rod, the fact that you think his teammates need to defend him makes no sense either. He’s a grown man. He makes 30 million/year. What do you want? His teammates to stand there and say “I never called him A Fraud. Alex is the best! He’s my friend.”

    And if they don’t defend him then its not a real team. Right. Instead of Clueless Joe how about Clueless Betsy.

  112. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    SJ – you and Betsy always manage to say it so much better than I. My tagline should just read: what SJ and Betsy said.

    :)

  113. casey January 25th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Did Torre say anything about Sheff in the book? We all know he won’t take the high road with a “no comment”.

  114. Ham Fighters January 25th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    wow, this cuts deep!

    HOT debate and good posters, this is getting juicier and juicier

  115. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Sorry, lara. I must’ve crossed my wires. I think it was discostu.

    Grown men don’t need to publish a book to express their feelings.

  116. DT January 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    GreenBeret7
    January 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
    joe McCarthy didn’t wear a uniform number.

    You are right GB. I didn’t know that, but just looked it up.
    Same with Huggins too.

    I guess the only way we’ll know if “no number” is retired is if a manager asks for it.

  117. casey January 25th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    This is more fun than a christening but my family would kill me if I didn’t show. Bye.

  118. Miggs January 25th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    SJ44 was the entire book a rip-job or was the worst stuff what was in the Post?

    I assumed it was since if they had more juicy tidbits common sense would say they were included in the article.

    But if the entire book was that way then that’s a different story.

  119. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Hey Miggs, you and I can always disagree respectfully so I will respectfully disagree. :) Also, if you Google “Torre” under News, you will see that a lot more than the Post have gotten on this bandwagon.

    Let’s just pretend for a moment this isn’t Joe Torre writing the book. Think about any coach or manager writing a tell-all book and mentioning that members of the team spoke disparagingly about a particular player. That strikes as nothing more than immature, petty bullspit and really makes that person look extremely small and petty.

  120. Ariel January 25th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Donnie Baseball simply repeated what he said about Manny at the Torre dinner a few months back. Presumably, the power base in Tampa is well aware of Manny’s work ethic (as set forth in detail by Donnie) and the positive impact it would have on the younger players such as Cano and Melky. It will not matter as to whether Manny will be wearing Pinstripes.

    What will matter, however, is if the Mets wake up and decide to make the move for Manny, recognizing full well that Manny can and would make a difference both on the field and, perhaps more importantly, at the box office. Only then, will Hal “swing over” at a potential differential of tens of millions of $$$$ in revenue.
    What would be worse, in this economy, than allowing the Mets to eat the Yankees lunch? There is only so much disposable income allocable to “fun and games”, and what one party gains, the other may well lose.

  121. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    “joe McCarthy didn’t wear a uniform number.”

    This is great news. Now, instead of looking cheap, I’ll just tell people that my number-less Yankee Jersey is a Joe McCarthy replica!

  122. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    “Grown men don’t need to publish a book to express their feelings.”

    Yes. I guess he feels he didn’t get his dollar’s worth by holding a press conference at his home and disparaging the organization when he was insulted by their “paltry” offer.

  123. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Trish – If you happened to be at the last Yankee game, did you stand and applaud Graig Nettles when he was introduced?

    If so, why didn’t his book impact on your electing to do so?

  124. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    “I assumed it was since if they had more juicy tidbits common sense would say they were included in the article.”

    Or drag it out for a week a la Clemens and A-Rod stories. But I am of the opinion that they divulged the juiciest bits. Maybe not every word but the big points. Maybe SJ can share if its more.

  125. Miggs January 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Trisha I was completely supportive of Joe’s exit last year, I thought it was long overdue.

    Please don’t take my comments as a defense of the book or anything in it.

    I just assumed the media would portray the book as more inflammatory than it really was just to sell papers. I figured the worst stuff would be leaked in the articles…that’s what sells.

    If the entire book is like that then I was mistaken.

  126. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Re: Arod’s teammates

    Don’t have to defend squat. They’re entitled to their opinions and disagreements. The most you’re going to get out of Jeter and company is ‘no comment’.

    They’re human beings with likes and dislikes and no matter what they say about each other, they’re still baseball players in the end. If they’re not doing their best on the field then this is not a team. If they argue in the clubhouse, that’s part of being on a team or working in a group.

    Anybody out there work in a group setting?

    Does every single worker love every other co-worker?

    I think some fans are being hypersensitive about this stuff. It’s just part of a normal clubhouse. Just because one of your favorite players seems to be the guy who’s a little less popular than the other’s it doesn’t mean they’re entirely dysfunctional as a group.

  127. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “Besides, you alresdy pissed off the Sicilians here and that should be enough to make you watch your back.
    (It’s a joke, really)”

    :lol:

    Fran, good Lord and we all know the managing miscues the guy made when Murderers Row and Cano ended up being a total embarrassment. Guys in the bullpen ended up holding their arms as they walked off the field and the players that got them there sat so Gary Sheffield could be placated. Then don’t even let me get started on 2007 and Joba and the locusts (or whatever they were!)

    :D

  128. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    SJ44, nice to see you back. How do you think this will be perceived in the clubhouse? I know A-Rod is not the most popular guy, but on the other hand, is he really disliked? I can’t imagine that Jeter, Mo, etc…….are thrilled that Joe is revealing all this stuff (and I don’t know how true it is). I hope this team will have A-Rod’s back – he’s a vital cog in their hopefully championship run and, most of all, he’s a teammate.

    I personally think ARod will have a great year, and not because of some silly even/odd year thing – he’s a great, great player. I hope this doesn’t throw him off….

    Trashing Cashman, one of the most well-liked and respected men in the game? Unbelievable. I truly believe Cash loved Joe and fought for him as long as he could. Talk about a betrayal.

    I guess Joe will always remain Papa Joe to Girardi, Mo, Po, Andy and Jeter, but even fathers have their faults. I hope they can see this.

  129. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    mel-

    i love it that this book is out because it throws a challenge to who’s really in charge of the game.it’s not just about the yankees.

    as you know i have little respect for cashman or the present yankee owners. i have a lot of respect for torre. without making a big deal of it right now to you, i think that the people who played the game should take it back from the people who haven’t.

    this book is very much about who really knows what matters in the game. be happy. our dull january of debating pettitte ad nauseum is over. this book is a blogger’s goldmine because it hit’s on so many levels and creates so many controversies.

    i do agree this is surprising that torre would bash a player in public, but there’s a time and a place for that. short story:

    clete boyer, as manager, gathers the whole pitching staff before a game that his team needs to win that day to have a chance at making the playoffs. he says whatever you have, i need it. just give me what you have. that day every pitcher on the team is asked to go into the game. three refuse to pitch because they just didn’t want to . clete’s team wins in extra when a pitcher who hadn’t pitched all year comes into a bases loaded situation and gets out of it with no runs and the game is won.

    the next day, everyone comes into the clubhouse to see that in the sportspages .it’s announced that clete has released the three pitchers. no telling them to their faces, but telling them in the newspaper.

    now this was not how someone like clete would usually do it, but in this case he did it this way to really get the message across of what he thought about these players. cold? yeah, but his team won the rest of their games and went to the last game of the league championships before losing.

    torre is sending a very strong message in the book that is outside the normal baseball rules of how to do things, but he knows these unwritten rules as anyone, just like clete did. when someone like torre or boyer go outside the unwritten rules of baseball, you know they have a reason.

    we’re all going to be debating this one for awhile.

  130. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Re: Torre’s sequel

    Stay tuned for Joe’s next book entitled, “He’s no baseball player: The case against Alex Rodriguez.”

    Oooooooo. JUICY!

  131. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    It doesn’t matter if it was 499 pages on domestic violence and 1 page ripping a particular player (even if he is unpopular), there are trust issues involved with being a manager.

    Oh, well.

    I don’t think it’ll distract the players too much, but I’m sure they’ll look at Torre differently. At least now we know what Jorge was talking to Torre about. :)

  132. GreenBeret7 January 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    DT
    January 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
    GreenBeret7
    January 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
    joe McCarthy didn’t wear a uniform number.

    You are right GB. I didn’t know that, but just looked it up.
    Same with Huggins too.

    I guess the only way we’ll know if “no number” is retired is if a manager asks for it.

    ————————————————————

    McCarthy does have a plaque in Monument Park, but, as far as uniform numbers for managers, I don’t know when they started wearing them. The last two managers to not wear uniforms (they wore civilian clothes in the dugout) was the Dodgers Burt Shotton and Connie Mack (1950).

  133. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Laura, I completely agree. I realize that there is no official manager/player priviledge like there is with client/attorneys, doctor/patients, but it is an unofficial rule. Besides that, it’s simply wrong to be revealing information like this (if it’s true).

  134. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    This is just Joe being Joe. The shill he really is. Look what I did for you, New York. Look at me with Mayor Rudy.
    How dare you not reward me as your lifetime manager and give me what I want. Maybe you will pull a Yogi and crawl back in 20 years. You are a bitter man with nothing to lose,you were not getting a plaque and you knew that. You were never a Yankee.

  135. Pel January 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

    *If I Did It* by Joe Torre

  136. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Miggs, I gotta say that when I read the blurb in the Post and saw that thing about “Single White Female”-like obsession, it really turned my stomach. On top of that though, I don’t ever see the need for a squealy little gossipy tell-all book by an obviously bitter old man. It’s one thing to write your memories well after most of the people in them have stopped playing. It’s another to write an expose a year after you leave the situation.

    Just my opinion but I see him as a vengeful dirtbag at this point. Before this I just saw him as greedy.

    ;)

  137. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    “If I Did It by Joe Torre”

    LAUGHING MY, ER, HEAD OFF!!!

    :lol:

  138. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Miggs,

    Its kind of hard for me to say because some of the stuff he wrote about that I have some knowledge about weren’t exactly how it went down.

    There is no doubt he’s REAL bitter about how it ended with the Yankees. That was evident prior to his writing the book.

    I think the Arod stuff, while juicy, is a bit two faced, IMO.

    Joe knows he screwed up BIGTIME when he embarrassed Arod by hitting him 8th in the Tigers series. He also embarrassed Arod by talking about him in Verducci’s story about Arod for SI a few years ago. For uninformed fans, they see that kind of behavior as “payback” for his poor post-seasons.

    Yet, for ballplayers, even guys who are Pro-Torre guys, that didn’t go over well in the clubhouse. In fact, it went badly. Even some of Arod’s non friends in the clubhouse weren’t happy with Joe embarrassing him like that.

    So badly that, if not for Cashman, who saved his butt, Torre would have gotten fired.

    Arod? He could have gone “diva” and been justified. Instead, he decided to have a clean slate with a guy who clearly didn’t like him and vice versa.

    Joe, being the politican that he is, decided to be “friends” with Arod that season. Went to some of his parties at his house, talked to him more, etc.

    To me at least, that’s as phony as anything Arod would do because EVERYBODY around the Yankees knew he hated Arod.

    Yet, Arod took the high road.

    So I ask, why bring it up now?

    Look, if you have a beef with Randy Levine (which he does), George or the sons, etc, take it up with them.

    Arod didn’t cost Torre his gig.

    It just seems to me for a guy who is so concerned about how he is viewed by others, taking shots at Arod is unnecessary.

    Cash? I know they had some issues in the last year he was in NY. Team related stuff, not personal stuff. I thought they worked a lot of that stuff out when he left.

    Fact is, and Torre knows it, Cash fell on the sword many times for Joe in his time in NY. I would have preferred Joe remembered that prior to writing the book.

    For Yankee haters, they will eat up the, “Torre rips Arod” headlines.

    The reality? It makes him look small. VERY small.

  139. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Torre wants Manny back so in the years to come he can write a book ” THE DODGERS YEAR… MANNY YEARS and NO WS RINGS”..

  140. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Re: Randy l

    That’s a very interesting perspective on Torre. I especially enjoyed the Clete Boyer anecdote. Perhaps we will never fully understand Joe’s true motives. We’re on the outside looking in.

    Why did Torre and Arod have some kind of rift?

    How did Torre’s players perceive it?

    What was the nature of the rift?

    Was it Arod and the corporate crowd vs. Torre and the baseball people?

    Did they fear that Arod’s relationship with the higher ups was a threat to Torre and a detriment to the team?

    To call a player and teammate a ‘fraud’ is kind of severe and perhaps it suggests there’s more to the rift than a simple matter of petty jealousy or Joe Torre batting Arod 8th in one single playoff game.

    Perhaps Torre views Arod as someone motivated more by selfish reasons rather than a commitment to the team and to winning.

  141. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    “Trashing Cashman, one of the most well-liked and respected men in the game? Unbelievable. I truly believe Cash loved Joe and fought for him as long as he could. Talk about a betrayal.”

    Betsy boy we are of one mind. Cashman was nothing if not loyal to Torre and was the one credited with saving his job in 2006. But if you look at the players involved, isn’t this actually not surprising at all? Torre was known as someone you didn’t cross. You never heard anything like that about Brian Cashman.

    mel – managers and issues of trust. Absolutely.

  142. bodhisattva January 25th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    trisha – New York Yankees – 2009 World Series Champions
    January 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am
    bodhisattva, I made the comment about Sicily more tongue in cheek than anything because it’s the home of the mafia and nobody seems to do revenge better than the mafia!!!

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    You’re forgiven (but only because you dubbed the nickname “evil elf” that afforded me a good belly laugh).

    Seriously, though, I find stereotypes about Sicilians tiresome. I get you were just having some fun :)

  143. Ariel January 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    I’m not a Torre fan, but do look forward to the book.

  144. Sal Cipriano January 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Good to hear about Robbie’s progress. I’ve secretly hoped that they would give the kid a chance, and not jumped the gun on a trade. He’s shown he can do it on this stage. You can point to many things for his downgrade last year including new contract, added pressures, new manager, loss of mentor, the league catching on to him, but the fact remains that the talent is there, and his dedication to regaining his lost form is impressive. Stick with him and let’s reap the rewards.

  145. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    So, I’m guessing Alex was never on Torre’s Christmas card list.

    Alex is a little weirdo, but he’s our weirdo. Besides, who isn’t a bit wacky and weird. Hope this book was worth it for Torre because the man is gonna be feeling some backlash.
    Michael Kay should be an interesting listen tomorrow. :P

  146. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    “To call a player and teammate a ‘fraud’ is kind of severe and perhaps it suggests there’s more to the rift than a simple matter of petty jealousy or Joe Torre batting Arod 8th in one single playoff game.”

    Yeah – if the players actually ever called him that. Torre has a lot of credibility issues as far as I’m concerned. For all we know he could have made up stuff.

  147. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Betsy,

    It won’t have any effect in the clubhouse. Guys will bust each others chops about it and it will be made as a clubhouse joke.

    That’s how players roll these days. This stuff, while juicy for the fans and media, has no effect on players or wins and losses.

    Randy,

    The book doesn’t have anything to do with how’s in charge of the game. Or the Yankees for that matter.

    Its the story of a guy who is bitter about not stayed on as Yankee manager. That’s it. Plain and simple, no other grand meaning to it.

    Joe Torre had two careers as a baseball manager. One prior to managing the Yankees and his Yankee career.

    He wasn’t a successful manager prior to his Yankee gig. He left as a HOF manager.

    As with any sports endeavor, he didn’t do it alone. I think his ego sometimes forgets that “little” fact.

  148. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Not to get all Sicilian, but Torre is Fredo and the Yankees are the family.

    Just kidding, bodhisattva! Done any cooking lately?

  149. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    “You’re forgiven (but only because you dubbed the nickname “evil elf” that afforded me a good belly laugh).”

    :D

    You have it worse than I do, I bet, in terms of those stereotypes. There are people in Rhode Island (probably everywhere) who think that just because I am Italian I am either associated with the mafia or am related to someone who is a member! Neither is true.

  150. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Re: Lies lies all lies

    Trisha,

    If his teammates didn’t call Arod a ‘fraud’ then Torre is setting himself up to be exposed as a liar. Do you really think Torre would do that? If there was so much support in the clubhouse for Arod then you might see them call out Torre.

    But guess what?

  151. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    “Who’s in charge of the game”, not “how’s”.

    Hopefully, the new changes here will include an edit button! lol

  152. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Randy l

    Did you mean Ken Boyer, the manager?

  153. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Wait. Girardi gets killed for taking a hit for Mo’s at the player’s request and Torre will get a pass in the media? Argh.

  154. DT January 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    I think where Torre crossed the line was speaking on behalf of Arod’s Yankee teammates.

    If Torre opines about Arod, I don’t give a flying hoot.
    Spilling the beans on what is said in the confines of the clubhouse is a no-no.

    Torre just created more headaches for his former “pals”.

    Reporters will be asking Yankee players in ST – “do you think he’s a fraud?”. Were you one of the players who called him that name behind his back?”

  155. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

    “The book, which I have an advance copy of and recently read, makes Joe look like a bitter old man.”

    sj-

    that’s one interpretation and since you’ve read the book i’ll have to wait to read it myself to see if i agree. i started to ask you for some specifics to illustrate what you’re concluding, but realized if you have an advance copy you’d probably be violating someone’s trust to reveal what you know.

    you and i have both been around the game enough, each in our respective way, to know that this is against the unwritten rules. i don’t think torre would take that lightly or do it just because he’s bitter. i think he would do it for a higher purpose than that. maybe it’s as simple as he doesn’t think that the present yankee administration and arod go about the game in the right way.

    maybe in his mind he’s sticking up for the game of baseball the way he knows it. he did play with players like aaron,spahn,gibson, brock, and carlton. torre knows things about baseball that we’ll never know.

    i think with the baseball life he’s had that he description “bitter old man” simply is not going to apply. we’ll see though. i do not have any problem with putting the heat to cashman and the steinbrenner brothers right from the start of 2009.

    this book should do it. for one thing, if the yankees don’t make the playoffs in 2009, cashman is gone. this book only pushes cashman to get his act together and prove torre wrong.

  156. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Re: Torre’s opinions about Arod

    Maybe Torre’s opinion is that the fans want to know what Arod’s teammates think of him.

    Who doesn’t often wonder who’s friends on the team and how those bonds translate on the field or even effect personnel moves by the front office?

  157. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    “i think he would do it for a higher purpose than that. maybe it’s as simple as he doesn’t think that the present yankee administration and arod go about the game in the right way.”

    If thats the case we will see a lot more (former) Yankees that he speaks of in the book.

  158. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    I haven’t seen the book yet. But I suspect 95 percent of it is a positive recollection of Torre’s time in New York because 95 percent of his time in New York was positive.

    =====================================================

    Of those 95% positive recollections that may be in his book..not many will focus on. As with most things, it will be the negative 5%(or more…who knows) that people will yammer about. Thanks Joe! :evil:

  159. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    I can’t believe people are surprised by any of this. Of course Joe didn’t like the way he was treated at the end and of course Cashman knew what was coming and knew he couldn’t change it like he did in 2006. You think he’s been GM for so long because he doesn’t know the terrain?

    As for Alex, he’s called that and much worse. He’s a great, great player who people don’t especially like because he’s socially awkward. If you haven’t figured that out, you aren’t paying attention.

    Junior Griffey, Jeter, Texeira, his wife, the list goes on and on.

    Alex is one of the greatest players in the history of the game, so people put up with him. Anybody who has followed baseball a little understands that.

    I’m those people who irrationally hate Torre will love this. But it’s mock outrage. The Yankees have more sub plots than than a soap opera and people write books because they want to sell books. In the end, it’ll prove to be five percent of the book because 95 percent of Torre’s time in New York was overwhelmingly positive.

  160. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Re: Randy l

    “this is against the unwritten rules. i don’t think torre would take that lightly or do it just because he’s bitter. i think he would do it for a higher purpose than that. maybe it’s as simple as he doesn’t think that the present yankee administration and arod go about the game in the right way.”

    It’s nice to see some logic here.

  161. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Why doesn’t everyone wait until they can actually read the book before they start bashing Torre?

    Personally I’m not going to go on a couple of lines that I don’t know in what context they were written.

    I’m reserving judgement and not going on a few sensationalized “Torre Rips Yankees” headlines.

  162. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    randy l,

    I think you’re romanticizing Torre’s motives here. He’s not doing this for the good of the game. There are many better ways to improve the game. One of them is to lead by example.

    I’m really interested in seeing Don Wakamatsu in his first season. First of all, that club’s a mess. But mostly I want to see if any Japanese core values surface. One of them is not airing out family issues to outsiders.

  163. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    SJ44, that’s right – I had forgotten that Joe and A-Rod supposedly “made up”. Wow, that is two-faced. I wonder why Joe hated A-Rod with a passion? Diva or not, the guy works his tail off – how do you at least not respect that?

    I’m glad to hear that the Verducci piece didn’t go over well with the organization or the players. Heck, it’s not a big deal if A-Rod had some non-friends on the team. In life, face it – not everyone is going to like you and some will dislike you for reasons that you can’t control (jealousy,e tc….). Iand just don’t understand why they would call him A-Fraud behind his back (A-Rod has to have some real friends on the team – this wouldn’t get back to him?) and then just reveal their loathing of him to Verducci. I wonder why Alex even wanted to come back to the Yankees..

  164. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Bret here’s what I think. Unless Torre named names, then everyone is “suspect”. So it is possible that the entire team is innocent but is thinking that is could have been “the next guy” who did it.

    And you just may see players coming out for Arod. But if someone doesn’t it may be that the person just doesn’t feel the need to weigh in on it one way or the other, especially if the player really never had any comment on Arod. But then it could be twisted to imply the particular player is guilty.

    Hopefully there will be a team meeting and an agreement to have a “no comment” policy. I have to believe that Yankee players understand that Torre is extremely bitter about not being at the helm anymore. He made that evident at his “show up at my castle” press conference. He really got far too big for his britches.

  165. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Its not exactly “news” that Arod has had teammates who didn’t like him over the years.

    So has Mike Mussina, Andy Pettitte, Roger Clemens, Paul O’Neill, yes even Derek Jeter and a host of others.

    That’s not “news”.

    However, anything that is around Arod comes with headlines. That’s a leading hope for big sales of this book.

    I just think for a guy who is as concerned (some would say MORE concerned) about his image than Arod, Torre would have taken a higher road in writing the book.

    When you take the Yankees job, its not a professor emertius position. Its a results oriented profession. It was that way when he took that job and it was that way when he left.

    Let’s face it, as screwed up a mantra as, “the season is a failure if we don’t win the World Series” may be (and it is), it is the “Steinbrenner Doctrine” and its been that way in the 30+ years he has owned the team.

    Joe Torre wasn’t going to change that fact.

    To that end, the Steinbrenners didn’t change a bit. Randy Levine? To parphrase Dennis Green, “He is what you think he is”!!! I say, that’s part of the gig. You deal with it or find another gig.

    Its just not something I believe a standup guy (I’m Italian, being a standup guy is something that’s important to we Italians) does in these situations.

    Just take the high road and move on. Much like Donnie Baseball did when he didn’t get the managerial job.

    Donnie was REAL disappointed he didn’t get the job. Yet, he NEVER gone after anybody publicly about it.

    That’s being a standup guy. Something that, IMO, Joe should have done in this situation.

  166. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    Re: Elaborate plot to discredit Arod

    “Bret here’s what I think. Unless Torre named names, then everyone is “suspect”. So it is possible that the entire team is innocent but is thinking that is could have been “the next guy” who did it.”

    Give me a friggin break.

  167. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    “As for Alex, he’s called that and much worse. He’s a great, great player who people don’t especially like because he’s socially awkward. If you haven’t figured that out, you aren’t paying attention.”

    We pay attention Pete. Most of us just don’t care. Besides, an earlier poster was correct. If he wants to call A-Rod whatever he wants fine. But he didnt help A-Rod’s current teammates by saying THEY called him that. Maybe you won’t ask Jeter or Mo, but someone is going to ask them about that aspect.

  168. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Oh, and none of this will have an impact on the current team. Not whatsoever. They already know what happened and don’t care to revisit it. Players don’t read baseball books and players care only about themselves.

  169. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    SJ, glad to hear it. I’m sure the media will try to make it an issue, but honestly, if the Yankees don’t allow them to, it will die down. The only thing left remaining will be Torre’s bitterness and that’s really his problem.

  170. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    “Did you mean Ken Boyer, the manager?”

    joltin’ joe

    no , clete boyer was the manager. clete was billy martin’s ling time third base coach and long time friend from their yankee playing days. billy martin was offered the manager’s job in the senior professional league of 1989 that also had earl weaver and dick williams as managers, but he passed it down to clete.

    clete was a yankee minor league coach at the time and brought tony cloninger,a key yankee pitching coach and a lot of other yankee connections to the team.graig nettles among them.
    what he really brought was the yankee way of doing things which is easy to see but hard to define.

    it does have an edge to it.

  171. Bret the Hitman January 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    Re: Torre did it all for the money

    That’s hilarious. He wasn’t trying to send a message to the Yankees or the fans or anything.

    He’s just trying to sell books (even though he doesn’t need the money).

    That’s rich.

    Oh and he’s so bitter he decides to indiscriminately single out one player.

    Bitter old man can’t control his feelings.

    LOL.

  172. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    “Players don’t read baseball books and players care only about themselves.”

    One more way players are just like everyone else.

  173. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    There’s a video clip on the espn link I posted earlier. Buster’s in it and I think that he refers to Verducci as the author. Did you guys gather the same?

    And they show Torre talking about Cashman the day after and it doesn’t jive with the book.

    Check it out and let me know what you guys think.

  174. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Pete, I’m socially awkward – it doesn’t mean that everyone doesn’t like me. You’re not breaking news about Jeter, but they made their peace last year and you could see it was different between them. Tex doesn’t like ARod because of one silly incident a few years ago? Tex has disputed that and said that Alex texted him after he heard the news. Griffey still holds a grudge against the Yankees from when he was a child – I don’t know or care why he doesn’t like Alex, but they haven’t been teammates in years. What it sounds like you are saying is that everyone in baseball hates Alex and he has no friends. If that’s not what you are saying, how about providing a list of Alex’s friends in the interest of fair play?

  175. Eppelin' Zeppelin' January 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    I hear Joe and Mark McGwire’s brother are working on a tell all about Randy Levine’s wig (I mean, it’s got to be a wig, right?).

  176. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    “Why doesn’t everyone wait until they can actually read the book before they start bashing Torre?”

    Because for some of us the fact the he wrote a book that gossips about what some players supposedly felt about another player, and even disparages the player himself, is reason enough to see him as a bitter loser.

    SJ has read the book. His characterization is more than enough for me.

    P.S. The last thing I intend to do is spend a penny on the book, nor would I read it if someone had a copy. I have much better things to do with my time than to read Joe’s bitter commentary. Again, few people write such memoirs one-year removed from a situation and while they are still involved in the sport.

    The guy is a huge loser in my eyes. As I said, before this I just considered him greedy and a poor manager of the bullpen, someone you didn’t cross if you wanted to get out alive. This has sealed the deal for me that he’s worthless.
    Yes, worthless.

    I respect the opinion of anyone who disagrees with my characterization as being overly harsh but not ANYBODY who continues to make excuses for him and even excuses his publicly telling on teammates with some dreamed-up pathetic reason for why it was okay to do so. (You did not do that Bob.)

  177. m January 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Pete,

    You’re really close to generalizing and stereotyping here. Matt DeSilva always had a stack of books on the night table. Nietsche and Verducci.

  178. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    I just have to say, the outrage some of you have is amusing. You haven’t read the book, but based on tabloids reports that sum up a few pages, you’ve condemning Torre.

    David Wells wrote a book that was supposedly some big controversy. It was for like a day. If Joe was still managing the team, it would be a big deal. He’s not.

    Hey, I love the traffic. Rip him all day if you want. But none of this is really a big deal.

  179. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Here’s the book via BN:

    http://search.barnesandnoble.c.....0385527408

    Tom Verducci co-wrote (edited?) the book.

  180. DT January 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Peter Abraham
    January 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
    Oh, and none of this will have an impact on the current team. Not whatsoever.

    Pete –
    Seriously? No Impact?

    Are you suggesting the “A-Fraud” topic won’t come up in ST interviews with players?

    It might not have an impact in terms of wins and losses – but if I was a player I would gauge what I said to my manager in confidence – who knows it could be in his next book.

  181. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Bret you’re a riot! Anyone who is kissing up to Torre is showing logic and everyone else has it wrong.

    :D

  182. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Randy,

    Here’s the thing though. If your interpretation (Torre wants to see the game played the “right” way) is his motivation for writing the book, what’s his beef with Arod?

    For all of his diva behavior, and believe me, Arod can diva it up with the best of them, NOBODY on the team works harder than Arod. NOBODY.

    In fact, he’s probably as “old school” as anybody who has ever played the game in that regard.

    Torre won’t fall on the sword for Arod yet, has done it numerous times for Roger Clemens. How does that even make sense, given what we now know about both of these guys now?

    I just look at it as one big political drama. Everybody, Torre included, have BIG egos and wants their histories to be written in their own words.

    Pete is right about Arod. He is socially awkward. Always has been.

    I do think though, he’s an easy target. Beneath all the diva crap, he’s a good guy. He really is. He isn’t a mean spirited guy and isn’t a “clubhouse lawyer”, IMO.

    I would also argue he’s a MUCH better teammate now than he ever was in Seattle or Texas. Its just that whatever happened in those places always seems to follow him with a lot of fans and media.

    Again, JMO but, Joe’s last 3 years in NY were spent more with him working his image than it did working his players.

    In that regard, he was like Arod. Way too image conscious for one’s own good. Personally, I think a lot of their issues stem from the fact they are more alike than not alike in many ways.

    Bottom line, be a standup guy and not write book. You don’t need the money and you certainly don’t need the fame.

    Its just a bitter guy taking shots. Again, JMO but, it makes him look like the smaller man and its unnecessary.

  183. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    “I think you’re romanticizing Torre’s motives here. He’s not doing this for the good of the game. There are many better ways to improve the game. One of them is to lead by example.”

    mel-

    so you know what the good of the game is ?

    good , you’ll make a great commissioner when selig retires.

    i think torre is setting a very good example by being transparent about some things he doesn’t like.
    cashman can write his book and be just as transparent.
    he may have plenty of time next fall if the yankees don’t make the playoffs.

  184. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    “SJ, glad to hear it. I’m sure the media will try to make it an issue, but honestly, if the Yankees don’t allow them to, it will die down. The only thing left remaining will be Torre’s bitterness and that’s really his problem.”

    Yep, and I agree with one thing Pete said. This will not have any impact on the current team. Torre is absolutely yesterday to them.

  185. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    But none of this is really a big deal.

    =====================================

    Does Alex feel that way too?

  186. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I stand by my belief that we defend the actions of those we like while ripping players we dont like for the same thing.

    Bet Sheff didn’t get this defense from those defending Joe right now before his book came out.

  187. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    “Bottom line, be a standup guy and not write book. You don’t need the money and you certainly don’t need the fame.

    Its just a bitter guy taking shots. Again, JMO but, it makes him look like the smaller man and its unnecessary.”

    Yep.

  188. DT January 25th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    “Oh, and none of this will have an impact on the current team. Not whatsoever.”

    Huh? Maybe not in terms of wins and losses but if players have to answer questions about the words the former manager put in their mouth – how is that not impacting the team?

    Pete – will you be asking any “A-Fraud” questions?

  189. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Betsy:

    Doug Mientkiewicz.

    I don’t know any others. This is a true story. In 2007, Alex made a big display of talking about how he was mentoring Robbie and Melky. They worked out together, etc. OK, great. Then the whole opt-out thing went down and all the drama that followed.

    I ran into Robbie at an event in December and asked him what he knew. He said he hadn’t talked to Alex since the end of the season. He told me he tried calling him and texting him and that he never got back to him. This was a guy who was supposedly his friend.

    It’s not that people actively dislike Alex, they don’t. They just don’t like him.

    Remember that Jeter thing a few years ago? Anybody who knows anything about Jeter knows he likes to protect his privacy and talk only about baseball. Alex walks into camp and without telling Derek, tells the media unprompted that he and Derek aren’t friends any more. Then Derek had to deal with all that, it blindsided him.

    Hence, A-Fraud.

    I don’t think it’s a big deal. You’re not supposed to like everybody you work with. Alex is a great player so people put up with him. He’s not a criminal, he’s just sort of a clown.

  190. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    DT:

    You’re wrong. So we’ll ask them if they read the book. They’ll say no. What then?

    Joe said you guys called Alex a fraud. “I don’t know anything about that.” OK, what then?

    It’s meaningless. The Yankees aren’t dopes.

  191. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    trisha – New York Yankees – 2009 World Series Champions
    January 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    The guy is a huge loser in my eyes.

    ————————————-

    Wow.

    For years I was as outspoken as anyone in my opinion that it was time for Torre to go.

    But to call him a loser? He’s may be alot of things, but he is not a loser.

    Now, I may read the book and get upset, but like I said, I’m not gonna bash the man when I haven’t even read the context in which some of these lines were written.

    Let’s not forget, just like Torre was “nothing” before he took the Yankee job, the Yankees had been “nothing” for a long time as well. He wasn’t solely responsible for the championship run, but he sure as hell had something to do with it and while I had issues with his in game managing, I’m not gonna trash the man.

  192. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Maybe Joe was looking to get under Arod’s skin so he could have a big year, LOL.
    Not. He’s just another Joe with an axe to grind, so he wrote a book for the bucks. Classless.

  193. m January 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Cashman doesn’t want to comment until he has more info. He talked to Verducci over the winter, but this never came up. Cashman’s not sure if the words being reported are from Torre or Verducci.

    That Verducci helped write the book brings up trust issues as well. Isn’t he a member of the media?

  194. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    The book isn’t an entire rip job. But, let’s just say “creative license” has been taken with some issues. I might add, as is the case with many of these kind of books or they wouldn’t get published. Especially for the 7 figure advance Joe received for the book.

    I just fall on the side of, why write it at all?

    I know of few people in sports that have the media savvy of Joe Torre. He is a genius in that regard.

    He knows the #@$% storm this would create.

    I just think some things are better left unsaid because nobody, certainly not Torre, “wins” in these situations.

  195. m January 25th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Wait, Torre got paid for this book? Shouldn’t he have done it for free? After all, it’s for the good of the game.

    Just kidding, randy l.

    And yes, I would make a good commissioner. I would be fair and wouldn’t let my best friend collect $100M to write a report.

  196. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Pete…..obviously there is a difference between Wells writing a book that exposes some inside animosity and childishness and Torre doing it…the latter tried to present an image of “class” while the former well…you know what I mean….I think your traffic shows that there are still plenty of hurt feelings on both sides (fans and Torre)…and to do this so close in time to his leaving diminishes him and his legacy…

  197. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    I think its a big deal because its a beloved guy. It doesnt have any weight on whats going to happen this year. I think it only hurts Joe’s legacy as a YANKEE Pete. I dont feel he will get his number retired or any sort of honors now. AROD is a character yes, but we have him on are team and its not like hes calling his team mates out or we hear of any fighting going on.

  198. Ham Fighters January 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    torre is a baseball lifer, but was also a top notch star baseball player too and has his own ego.

    you think he liked it when cash said last winter that he didnt offer bernie a contract b/c torre would just use him too much?

    you think torre thought he deserved to be fired after the 06 seasaon, his 14th consecutive PS appearance? im sure he didnt so when people say cash ‘saved his job’ after that season, dont u think it got him a little hot under the collar?

    the st joe crap was as ridicuous as was the clueless joe crap.

    joe thinks he got screwed and hes screwing back a little. thats the way it goes. everybody will be over it 2 days after ST starts.

    so did arod ever get his personal cabana boy?

  199. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Guys write books for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Joe never leaves a dime on the table and never will. He played in an era when the players got royally screwed by the owners and now he has a chance to cash in.

    The guy has three houses, a plane and two ex-wives. He’s not going to manage forever, so he wrote a book. If somebody offered you that much to write a book, you’d do it, too. Especially when you don’t really have to write it.

    I’m sorry, but it’s amazing to me that people are treating this like some sort of shocking news. Torre was mad about how they threw him out and the rest of the players don’t really like Alex? I would have assumed those would be the least controversial sections. If those are the most juicy parts, Joe left a lot of things out. A lot of things.

  200. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    SJ

    Torre “wins” because all he cares about is the money. He also gets the privilege to rip the Yankees, who he thinks owe him something for the 4 rings he thinks he brought us.

  201. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    “He knows the #@$% storm this would create.”

    Thank you SJ. Lets not act like Joe didn’t know this would happen. He knew, he read it. He has dealt with New York media. So he’s getting exactly what he knew he would. If he could accept what he’ll get, everyone else defending him should too.

    And this really shouldn’t be about A-Rod. This is Joe’s book; no need to analyze A-Rod, his awkwardness or his insecurities.

  202. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    “I’m sorry, but it’s amazing to me that people are treating this like some sort of shocking news. ”

    And while we’re at it the reaction shouldn’t be surprising to Joe or you Pete.

  203. DT January 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Maybe you are correct Pete, I dunno.

    I guess a lot of what is said by Torre on his “book tour” – will have an impact if this still has legs in a few weeks.

    Torre could say the quote was taken out of context, was incorrect, or possibly he could add more fuel to the fire by expounding on it and it will generate more press.

  204. rover January 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Wow, I had to live to 62 inorder to discover everything that happens in closed door management meetings and the clubhouse is always hearts and flowers. Who woulda thunk it?

  205. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    sj44-

    i have great respect your baseball opinions, and i agree that you’d think that torre would have just let his success with the yankee and now the dodgers speak for itself. the fact he didn’t makes this really interesting.

    i know torre is not some kind of a baseball god who never makes mistakes or ticks off other people in the game. i know he offered neil allen the dodger pitching coach job and then moved on without getting back to allen.

    as far as arod, i know he works his ass off, but there’s just something about him that is very un- yankeelike. i’ve tried to like him being the major building block of the team , but he doesn’t make it easy.

    if nothing else. this book stirs things up and i think that’s a good thing. i can feel many starting to drink the cashman cool aid again, and that doesn’t make me happy.
    i’m open to cashman actually doing what he talks about . but what i see is people like torre, bowa, mattingly, allen, gil patterson leaving the organzation.

    maybe torre is right? what if the next few years turn out to be a disaster for the yankees?
    maybe a book like this is just what’s need to prevent that from happening by exposing things that just aren’t being done the right way.

    on the other hand , i do see your point that this violates the unwritten rules of baseball. the first thing i need to do is get a hold of a copy of this book so i can have a more informed opinion of it.

  206. gayle January 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    pete are you going to be blogging from the dinner tonight??

  207. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    From Tom Verducci’s Wikipedia entry:

    “He is actually a Yankee Hater which is evidenced by his new book with Joe Torre as well as his SI Article about Alex Rodriguez”

    Which one of you put that in there?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Verducci

  208. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    “Cashman wouldn’t comment on the book when contacted Sunday by ESPN.
    Cashman, who said he’s in regular contact with Torre, told ESPN he didn’t know the context of the portrayal and didn’t know if the reported comments were from Torre or Verducci.”

    Good job Brian wait to hear from Saint Joe, I’m sorry but I have finally lost all of the respect I had for Joe Torre if this is true. He basically sold out.

  209. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Lara:

    I think fans and readers with any degree of sophistication and knowledge aren’t surprised. But of course there are a percentage of nitwits who will rail against Torre. That’s the way it works.

    I just wish Moose was going to be at spring training.

  210. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    “i think torre is setting a very good example by being transparent about some things he doesn’t like.
    cashman can write his book and be just as transparent.”

    Part of it is personality. Some people feel entitled to write books and trash everyone and everything, others keep it to themselves. I won’t be surprised if you see Cashman as one of them.

  211. Pel January 25th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    >If somebody offered you that much to write a book, you’d do it, too.

    You would sell people down the river? Good to know.

  212. YankeesLuv January 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    I know the media loves him but I think in this case Torre is a jerk.

  213. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    One of them who keeps it to himself.

  214. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Pete:

    You are off the wall calling anyone who rails against Torre for disclosing inside clubhouse stuff and taking pot shots a “nitwit”…yes it is not surprising what he put in the book…but coming from him, a member of management, it adds to the tarnish of his legacy….

  215. gayle January 25th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Isnt he (Moose) going to be at thee NY baseball writers dinner tonight though> SO the writers can ask Moose what he thinks now why wait for spring training ha ha

  216. E-Man January 25th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    lol at some of these comments. Can you say sheep?

    Read the book first before you form an opinion.

  217. Ham Fighters January 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    the publisher paid a humongous advace. if it wasnt going to shock some people the advance would have been alot smaller.

    i dont know much about publishing but it seems like the engine that runs the machine are these nasty little quotes that get leaked the week before the book goes on sale.

    im guessing that these snippets are contained in the book proposal that is generated before the book is even written so that the publisher can make a guess on the saleability of the eventual book. so if joe wanted to sell a book and take a nice chunk of cash, he knew he was gonna have to trash somebody before the project even began.

    if this is the worst of it, its likely gonna be a real snoozer, but the quotes will really pump up the sales.

  218. Pel January 25th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    >I think fans and readers with any degree of sophistication and knowledge aren’t
    >surprised. But of course there are a percentage of nitwits…

    You’re overworking the high horse today.

  219. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    I hope Cano really has a bounce back year. What do guys you think the Yanks final offer will be to Andy,Ill say 12$ mil with some incentives

  220. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    “you think he liked it when cash said last winter that he didnt offer bernie a contract b/c torre would just use him too much?”

    good thing cashman was so good at being tough and getting rid of that bernie williams so that younger outfielders could lead the yankees to the promise land.

    that worked out well.

    actually , cashman lost me the way he handled a yankee great like bernie at the end of his career.

    that’s when i knew he was getting more than a little too full of himself.

  221. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    “You would sell people down the river? Good to know.”

    If your a baseball player playing for Joe now…would you be 100 % honest w/ him, would you tell him what’s bugging you ? It’s amazing a boss who basically made him what he is, mgmt. of Stick Micheal, Bob Watson, Brian Cashman…and under Brian.. Knoblauch, Brosius, Justice, White, Boone, Joba..etc. and this is how he repays them ? A tell all, it’s one thing if the media gets it from snooping or from players but when a coach, basically a confidant w/ as many leaks as the Yankees had in the organization you’d think Joe wouldn’t be a part of it but after this I have to wonder.

  222. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Pete-

    To call a fan a “nitwit” is not objective, as you a reporter should be.

  223. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    NYK26:

    Oh, yeah. It’s a huge scoop and inside clubhouse stuff that people don’t like Alex. Big news there. Shocking. The general perception was that he’s a great guy and a great teammate, as evidenced by all the championships he has won.

    You can’t be serious.

    Ham fighters has it correct, people are reacting to one or two snippets leaked out by publicists. It’s funny to see the usual suspects all up in arms, like Torre spit on the flag or something.

  224. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    The A-Fraud line is nothing new and no, Pete we aren’t treating it like shocking news. We’re treating it like what it is, a crass classless attempt to make even more money off an organization that paid hiim more money than any other organization has ever paid any other manager/coach with the possible exception of the Lakers and Phil Jackson.

    Randy… I don’t know about your “game on” comment… I’ll joust issues with you or anyone else any time, but I’m not foolish enough to predict how this season will play out when the rosters aren’t even set.

    I’m not siding iwth the “suits” against Joe. He had every right to turn down the offer after 2007, but I wasn’t about to buy into his “insult” comment regarding incentives when he already had an incentive in his previous contracts. He was pissed about a pay cut, just be a man and say so, Joe.

    It owuld have been great for him to retire and take a consulting tytpe job in th eorganization, but he wanted more $$$$ so he’s in LA. I don’t wish bad things for Joe Torre… I just think this is a classless move.

  225. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Pete is exactly right about one’s motivations to write a book. Its also not “breaking news” re: some of the leaked portions of it.

    Randy,

    If Joe DiMaggio played today, he would be Arod when it comes to “diva-like” behavior. Nobody had anything on Joe D when it came to being a diva.

    He was worse AFTER he retired. He wouldn’t do a public appearance anywhere unless he was announced as the “greatest living ballplayer”.

    That’s pretty “diva” to me! lol

    Seriously though, I’m sorry to hear that about Neil Allen. Not surprised though he wasn’t given a phone call. Some guys just don’t handle those “promised situations that don’t come through” well.

    I’ll give you an example of somebody who is a standup guy….Rex Ryan.

    I have a very close friend who has been trying to get an NFL coaching job for the last 3 years. He was a famous player “back in the day” on a pretty famous team, and was close to Rex and Buddy Ryan for a long time.

    He became a very successful businessman and only recently got the bug to get into coaching. Nobody would return his phone calls. Nobody would give him a shot.

    Rex told him, “If I get a head coaching job, you are on my staff”.

    Rex got the job, he called my friend, and he will be on the Jets staff.

    It hasn’t been announced publicly yet. When it is, I’ll tell you who it is.

    That’s being a standup guy. First time head coach and it would have been easy to say, “I can’t hire you”. Especially since the Jets approached him to look at other people for the role. Rex didn’t do it.

    Joe at least should have called Neil and told him the news.

    That’s the kind of stuff that Joe did in his final years in NY (on other issues) that turned me off. Its unnecessary and smacks of “forgetting where you came from”.

  226. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Pete…you missed my point which was its not that what he said was big shocking news it is that he stooped to this level to do it…and betrayed some trusts…not the Torre I wanted to remember….just call me nykwit I guess

  227. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    The only thing I am shocked about is that Saint Torre has done something that might make some people finally revoke his “sainthood” status. Some of the small tidbits that have been made public are not shocking to me.

    Everything is not rainbows and sunshine with the Yankees all the time. No Duh.

    Just hope Joe enjoys the money he is making off of the book. Hope it’s worth it.

  228. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Pete you really don’t see what’s wrong w/ this ? A coach making money on what goes on behind closed doors, could you imagine your boss writing a tell all book about things that go on in your profession that you wouldn’t want out ?

    This couldn’t be told to ESPN, or FOXS or some sports outlet, no what did Saint Joe do, he basically pulled a Canseco, read my book if you want the juice.

  229. Adam D January 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    This is going to be a great book. Unfortunate if Torre really said harsh words to Cash, which I am not fully believing. It is perfect hype for the book. The Yankees are in the news again ladies and gentlemen. Seems like the planet is spinning properly again.

  230. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Argh, Pete I’m usually with you but come on now.

    “As evidenced by all the championships be has won”? You can’t be serious with that one.

    And it doesn’t have to be 500 pages of anti-Yankee and anti-Alex stuff. Lets be real, A-Rod and Sheff only said a couple of things about Jeter and they were killed. And Sheff’s wasn’t even about Jeter per se.

  231. Amandla January 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    The Yankees should have shown him his due in The Stadium closing. I was there. It didn’t happen. That was insult to injury. If Torre is classless then no more so than the Yankees and we’ll still cheer and support them.

    Big surprise ARod’s a headcase. Hank is a silver-spooned ass and how is it that Cashman gets a pass? Randy Levine…well without being able to use a string of words starting with “F” getting into him is impossible for me.

    I’m a Yankees fan but they’re not above reproach.

  232. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    86w183-

    the blog has had a great history of battles for and against statistical analysis and for and against cashman and his approach.
    by game on , as i can tell we’re going to be on opposite sides of this torre book issue because of how we look at the game , i’m just saying let the debate begin.

    good arguments are what the blog is all about. it’s not about everyone drinking the same cool aid.

    debating someone is not necessarily a matter of disrespect.

  233. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Jow was a phony from day 1, plain and simple. Sometimes it takes a while to come to a conclusion and winning has a way of obscuring character flaws. But Joe came here labeled a loser and became a legend in his own mind when he left. So much for being a diva. It takes one to know one. As someone in here said, he pulled a Conseco. Classless. Now watch him squirm around it as he makes the rounds. And isn’t this the weekend to drop this,before the Super Bowl.

  234. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    It’s funny to see the usual suspects all up in arms, like Torre spit on the flag or something.

    =========================================

    In the same token, it’s funny to see the “usual suspects” shine Torre’s halo and see nothing wrong at all in this. Not even a little bit.

    A lot of funny things going on and I thought this Sunday would be boring. ;)

  235. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    “The Yankees should have shown him his due in The Stadium closing. I was there. It didn’t happen. That was insult to injury. If Torre is classless then no more so than the Yankees and we’ll still cheer and support them.”

    The only thing is that atleast if the Yankees were classless they did it infront of his face, Saint Joe basically was doing all this behind thier. On top of that took the coward’s way out because lets be honest he doesn’t live in NYC anymore so it’s not like you’ll get a quote right now.

  236. no.27 January 25th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    I can’t believe how many anti Joe Torre posts there have been on these last 2 topics.

    In the last thread, everyone is certain that the Yankees wouldn’t have made the playoffs with Torre managing the team. The Yankees had the toughest competition in their division that they’ve had in a long time, and the injuries they had would have been tough for any manager to overcome. That being said, if you took a poll of the players, I bet a majority of them say they could have had a better shot with old Joe instead of new Joe.

    That’s not saying that I’m not happy with Girardi. Torre was going to have to leave eventually, and I think Girardi is going to do a great job. But, I’m not sure what he’s going to have to do to make you guys happy though. If he made the playoffs for the next 10 years and won 3 World Series will you guys be more angry with him than you are now with Torre?

    None of you have even read his book yet. It’s HIS book. Should Torre not discuss his relationship with his players, Cashman, or the rest of the Yankee management? Was he supposed to completely ignore his time with A-Rod? Do you think he doesn’t have anything positive to say about him in his book? Or maybe you don’t sell a book with no-sht comments like saying that the best player in the history of baseball is a great baseball player?

    Anyone remember when Phil Jackson came out with a book that had a few pages criticizing Kobe? Remember how that ended up? Kobe calling Phil Jackson to ask him to come back. Why not put down your torches til you read the book and maybe even hear some comments from the people that he writes about?

  237. Mark Messier January 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    When did that SOB Torre spit on the flag…… money grubbing classless pig….

  238. Ham Fighters January 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    “He was worse AFTER he retired. He wouldn’t do a public appearance anywhere unless he was announced as the “greatest living ballplayer”.

    …you mean you couldnt just say, ‘here’s mr. coffee?’

    http://bitcast-a.v1.iad1.bitgr.....coffee.jpg

  239. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    “In the same token, it’s funny to see the “usual suspects” shine Torre’s halo and see nothing wrong at all in this. Not even a little bit.”

    *AMEN!*

    no. 27 – while what you say is true that we haven’t read the book yet, if the press report is true that he reported that some of Arod’s teammates called him Afraud and that Torre himself called Arod a diva, then I am with the MAJORITY

  240. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    The Yankees ran a video before the last game and did not include Torre as one of the greatest managers in team history. There were other snubs as well, including team execs not showing up as promised at his charity dinner.

    There also were numerous instances in spring training last season when team officials (like Hank, etc.) made references about how much better things would be with Girardi as manager, how the team would work harder, etc. We all saw how that worked out.

    So if Torre is mad, he’s mad. It’s not for any of us to say whether he has that right, people feel the way they want to feel.

    There are no closed doors any more. Players have publicists and web sites and Twitter accounts and Facebook pages. Everybody wants to write a book, so will the cornerstone Yankees when they retire. It’s what people do.

  241. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    then I am with the MAJORITY here (a nice feeling since I usually end up in the minority) who feel it makes him bitter and petty and small.

  242. Zach in Port Jeff January 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    oh my god…some caller on on WFAN just begged for a collaboration effort between Paul Quantrill, Scott Proctor, and Tanyon Sturtz (i’m leaving out a pitcher)…

    anyways, he suggested the book be called “how joe torre ruined my career”.

    funny.
    and true.

  243. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    sj-
    if anyone in baseball actually read what’s written here, i wouldn’t have said what i did about torre calling up and personally offering the dodger pitching coach job to allen, but my point is i’m not naive about torre being saint joe. that said, i’m sure there’s no problem with torre and allen playing golf together. things like that happen and people move on. they go way back and i’m sure allen has already let it go. none of us would have any friends if we didn’t forgive mistakes that are sometimes made.

    still the classy thing to do is what happened with your friend in getting hired for the jets.

  244. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    The Director of operations for Coca Cola gets offered a pay cut and then gets hired by Pepsi. A year later while still director at Pepsi he writes a book detailing some behind the scenes BS at Coke that everyone knew but is shared from his viewpoint….would never happen because of language in executive contracts….and because it is classless….and not in the best interest of either company…oh thereis that best interest thing again….nykwit

  245. Amandla January 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Welcome to the age of transparency

  246. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    “Why am I not surprised that this book is being supported by A-Rod haters?”

    ————————————————-

    I am a big fan of ARod AND a big fan of Torre. Or course, I haven’t read the book yet (unlike most of you commenting), but I think it’s a fine idea. What GB said about ‘questioning authority’ is ALWAYS a great idea. For me, knowing ‘ugly’ truths about the Yanks is far better then pretty lies and BS.

    Of course, I am a HUGE Mickey Mantle fan. I love the man.
    But I also loved ‘Ball Four’ and believe it is one of the most important baseball books of all time. These ‘A-Fraud’ comments are almost comedy compared to what Bouton revealed. But again… truth and knowledge have value to me, even when they ain’t pretty.

    In his time here, Torre made thousands of statements and thousands of decisions. The fact that people here try to prove Torre was great -or- horrible based on a few incidences just reminds me how many people here have no clue about baseball, human behavior or the ultimate role random luck/fate plays to the outcome of games/seasons. (If Giambi Jr. had slid, we have have one less WS ring. Would THAT have been Torre’s fault?)

    People are complicated. The Yankees are complicated. Life is complicated. Nothing is all good or all bad. Not Joe. Not the Yankees. And there is nobody more complicated and paradoxical then George Steinbrenner.

    Managers don’t play the games, but they do have an ‘overall’ effect on their team and it’s (relative) success. Looking at the totality of Joe’s 12 years here, all-in-all, I think he was a very good manager for the teams we had. Hell, he deserves a metal just for surviving George so long. Not many others could have.

  247. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    “Cashman, or the rest of the Yankee management? Was he supposed to completely ignore his time with A-Rod? Do you think he doesn’t have anything positive to say about him in his book? Or maybe you don’t sell a book with no-sht comments like saying that the best player in the history of baseball is a great baseball player?”

    And you think this is the only team in sports w/ issues ! Do you really think that, alot goes on behind closed doors the difference is it doesn’t get out, the character of a man who reviews that type of info has to be questioned, it’s like a family member making money out of your worst moments in life and everyone has them.

    “Anyone remember when Phil Jackson came out with a book that had a few pages criticizing Kobe? Remember how that ended up? Kobe calling Phil Jackson to ask him to come back. Why not put down your torches til you read the book and maybe even hear some comments from the people that he writes about?”

    Yes I remember that, and I remember Phil Jackson basically having to apologize for all that crap, his character was shown weak, a guy like Phil Jackson the best coach in the NBA when he has the best players in the NBA was criticized and rightly so, because alot goes on behind closed doors the difference it’s suppose to stay that way. A man that tries to make money out of your gaffs can you actually sit there and defend it ?!

  248. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    “oh my god…some caller on on WFAN just begged for a collaboration effort between Paul Quantrill, Scott Proctor, and Tanyon Sturtz (i’m leaving out a pitcher)…

    anyways, he suggested the book be called “how joe torre ruined my career”.

    funny.
    and true.”

    We sure it wasn’t Nick in SF ? :lol:

  249. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Randy and OYF,

    Agreed. Its all part of the “game” these days. It really is.

    Folks who aren’t in the business get riled up about it. However, those who are learn to either have a thick skin or get out of the business.

    Its sad in a way because you always want to have your fan beliefs re: teams, executives, ballplayers, etc.

    However, in today’s world, there are no secrets.

    Those that can pull secrets off (I’m still amazed to this day how Derek Jeter can have a real private life), they have my unwavering respect.

  250. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    “But Joe came here labeled a loser and became a legend in his own mind when he left”

    doesn’t the fact he’s still on a winning streak as far as making the playoffs that goes back as long as anyone in the history of the game throw a little damper on your theory about being a legend in his own mind?

    torre goes into 2009 with his playoff streak intact. cashman’s yankees don’t.

  251. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Maybe Torre should read this book. He may learn something from the man who wrote it:

    http://search.barnesandnoble.c.....780/?itm=3

  252. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Randy

    Joe won in LA the same way he won here. Did he really have much to do with it? Manny won it for them, plain and simple.

  253. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    “anyways, he suggested the book be called “how joe torre ruined my career”.

    funny.
    and true.”

    :D

    Funny. And true.

    Tom – GREAT CATCH!!! I guess that was then and this is now.

    :)

  254. aron January 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    michael kay will have some fun with this ripping torre

  255. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    “But again… truth and knowledge have value to me, even when they ain’t pretty.”

    “People are complicated. The Yankees are complicated. Life is complicated. Nothing is all good or all bad. Not Joe. Not the Yankees. ”
    “Managers don’t play the games, but they do have an ‘overall’ effect on their team and it’s (relative) success. Looking at the totality of Joe’s 12 years here, all-in-all, I think he was a very good manager for the teams we had. ”

    old yanks fan-

    well said.

  256. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Best bet is to just watch the darn game and save truth and authority for people who really affect our lives.

  257. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    “But again… truth and knowledge have value to me, even when they ain’t pretty.”

    “People are complicated. The Yankees are complicated. Life is complicated. Nothing is all good or all bad. Not Joe. Not the Yankees. ”
    “Managers don’t play the games, but they do have an ‘overall’ effect on their team and it’s (relative) success. Looking at the totality of Joe’s 12 years here, all-in-all, I think he was a very good manager for the teams we had. ”

    And he sold them out after those 12 yrs.

  258. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Randy1 —

    Don’t presume to know how I view the game because I think Torre is wrong to write this book and give the finger to the Yanks. I am anything but a “stat head” and ignore most new fangled stats, especially defensive stats which are so subjective to be essentially meaningless.

    As for the current team, I’d love for Pettite to come back, but consider $ 10 M to be rather fair. I wanted CC and Tex all along. AJ scares me, but it’s not my money. I don’t think they should deal Nady or Swisher unless iit’s a great deal and can live with a CF rotation until we see how it plays out.

  259. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    randy I somehow think this has to do with your continued dislike of Brian Cashman. Do you blame him for Torre no longer being with the team?

  260. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    “Joe won in LA the same way he won here. Did he really have much to do with it? ”

    joltin’joe-

    that torre is just one lucky sob, every where he’s been for the past fifteen years, he wins!

    at least you have to admit he must not get in the way of winning.lol.

  261. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    86w123-
    looking forward to how you look at the game. maybe i’m mixing you up with someone else, but i thought that you leaned towards the data mining side of things.

  262. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    I am naive to think that members of management are supposed to set an example and be held to a higher standard?…..Joe, you should have waited to retire to write your memoirs

  263. no.27 January 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    So people that remember the good things Torre did for the Yankees and think it makes sense to read the book and listen to the reactions of the people written about in the book are automatically Torre lovers and A-Rod haters?

    I definitely was happy with Torre’s time with the Yankees. You’d have to be an idiot not to be. How many managers have had a better run EVER? That doesn’t mean I think every move Torre made was the right one. The truth is, I don’t think managers have as much of an impact as most people do. They get too much credit and too much blame. You still need to respect what he did while he was here.

    And I just said that A-Rod is probably going to end up being the best baseball player to ever play baseball. If that makes me an A-Rod hater, I guess I hate Jessica Biel and Megan Fox too?

  264. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    randy

    if you can admit they might have won in spite of him, lol.

  265. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    “And he sold them out after those 12 yrs.”

    Yep.

    Again, I am waiting for one of you Torre worshipers to give me the names of other managers/coaches, etc. who left their teams on bad terms and wrote a tell-all book, disparaging players and reporting on others’ feelings about certain players, a year after leaving the team.

    Maybe the books are out there, because I admittedly do not read all of the sport books. But I am guessing nobody can give me any names because there aren’t any that fit that – except Joe Torre.

    P.S. I’m not interested on any hybrid suggestions on books that don’t fit that description. We’re talking about someone who left a situation on very bad terms with very bad feelings. He is far from the first to leave a team feeling that way. Give me all of the other books written one year out of a situation that trash the organization, and squeal on how teammates SUPPOSEDLY felt about another player, even giving a disparaging nickname.

    Thanks.

  266. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    This is one weird offseason.

    Cashman time to go Ninja on Torre.

    j/k

  267. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    …yes Trish and to do it while he is still actively managing in the sport….not cool

  268. Westerner99 January 25th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    I have read excerpts from the book. Trish – you should read it…a lot of the post quotes were taken out of context. I’m not saying some of the information he gave out isn’t wrong…but the Post got it wrong.

  269. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    *someone is imitating me. I did not write the 2:09 post*

  270. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    For all of Joe’s diplomacy, it would have been interesting to see how he would have done with the Bronx Zoo, a la Bob Lemon, perhaps.

  271. yanks rulee January 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Hmmm Trisha I did see that quote there on a book review site. Was it Clemens??

  272. Buddha January 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    “Anger is one of the most common and destructive delusions, and it afflicts our mind almost every day. To solve the problem of anger we first need to recognize the anger within our mind, acknowledge how it harms both ourself and others, and appreciate the benefits of being patient in the face of difficulties”

  273. thenextandykosco January 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    I asked the question that follows (I believe in a comment on this blog) during OctTorrefest 2007, but I have never been able to find an answer. Suddenly, the question would seem to have some relevance again.

    On Cot’s Baseball Contracts, which is linked on this blog, it is currently reported that Joe Torre’s last contract extension with the Yankees, which he signed in 2004 for the 2005, 2006, and 2007 seasons, included a six-year consulting agreement with the Yankees. Cot’s doesn’t say which six years were included, but I assumed that it would be the first six years after he was done managing. Cot’s also doesn’t say what he was or is to be paid for consulting, but one assumes that there is paid consideration. So is Mr.Torre currently under a consulting contract with the Yankees or not? In 2007, I never saw anything about his being released from the consulting obligation. Cot’s doesn’t say anything about his being released from the consulting obligation. I don’t think that the Commissioner would allow him to take pay from the Yankees for consulting while simultaneously managing the Dodgers. When he finishes the managing gig, does he automatically come back on the Yankees payroll for another six years? Or is it non-guaranteed and either side can opt out at will? Now that I think about it, I do recall hearing about someone who chose to opt out of a Yankee contract in October 2007. Now, who was that?

    Regardless of the legalities, if you are under contract to get pay from an employer for services six years into the future, how much can you honorably and publicly say about your dissatisfaction with your prior dealings with the employer and its other personnel?

    Pete, could a widely rspected member of the mainstream press with access to the Yankees’ front office and media relations machine get clarification of the status of Torre’s consulting contract? I see that Cashman, as expected, has refused ESPN’s invitation to comment directly on what is said to be in the book. I would have been astonished and disappointed if he had taken the bait.

    I know that my question has little gossip value, but it seems a reasonable question for serious fans to ask, and I can’t iamagine any reason that the Yankees, or Joe Torre for that matter, would have for refusing to clarify whether the Yankees and Torre have a future mutual obligation to each other. Maybe someone who follows this blog has some answers.

    Does anyone feel like baseball news is more and more reminiscent of professional wrestling news?

  274. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    If anything this is making a boring weekend more interesting. It is probably true that the post and News just put the juicy stuff to get people buying the papers and most of the book is probably positive but the Yankees made Joe and he shouldn’t forget that no matter how scorned he feels. I know its a different world now but no matter how I felt about a boss or former job I wouldn’t go around badmouthing them, you never know when you may end up needing someone later on. I am sure now Joe Torre will be ripped even more around here and it should be interesting to see how people react at the booksigning and on Letterman when he is on next week.

  275. no.27 January 25th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    How bout Phil Jackson’s book?

  276. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    whatever….cry me a river, Torre. Seriously, I’m so sick of these nonsensical sour grapes from him and his family. You don’t see Cashman or any of the players doing tell all interviews about the litany of mistakes he made throughout his managerial tenure or how badly exposed he was when Zimmer left.

    somebody call this guy a waaambulance and let’s move on to re signing Pettitte!

  277. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Westerner – 400+ pages is a lot of pages! If it comes out that the Post got it wrong and he didn’t call ARod a diva or Afraud or talk about him having a crush on Jeter, and if he didn’t say that the players called Arod “Afraud” then I am willing to back off what I am saying. But if he did any of it, he’s a bitter jerk in my eyes.

    I guess I have no time for tell-all books, no matter who writes them. We all have a lot of stories but keeping them to ourselves actually makes us the bigger people I think. (And it isn’t like the guy needs the money.)

  278. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Torre did step in it here. Showalter and Gene Michael set the Yanks up for him. Joe pushed the right buttons but his biggest decision was who to play in LF, Curtis or Raines. Or who to DH, Straw or Fielder. He seemed to get bored after beating the Mets. Didn’t look forward to interleague or even Red Sox series often complaing about the hype. This is why he is gone.

  279. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    yanks rulee -

    I didn’t write that post. Someone was imitating me.

  280. Praetorian Guard January 25th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Here’s an excerpt from one of Torre’s other books, “Ground Rules for Winners”:

    “Fairness, respect, and trust are the three prime ingerediants in any recipe for teamwork…

    1. I treat team players with honesty and trust, and ask for the same in return.
    2. I make an unstated agreement with each team player: “Give me effort and I’ll never second guess you. I’ll always defend you.”
    3. I apply all rules evenhandedly to all team members.
    4. I never air grievances to others, including the media, before I privately air my grievance with a player.
    5. I never humiliate or embarrass a team player in front of others.
    6. I don’t play favorites. I offer no special favors to high-salaried stars or players I like, nor do I make a show of personal prefences.”

    Once the book comes out, the question is does Torre do as he preaches or is it a case of “do as I say, not as I do”.

  281. Joltin' Joe January 25th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

  282. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    I had my dukes up ready to fight and now I see that everyone has already said everything that needs to be said and more re: Torre’s new literary feat.

    Maybe now we know who the real Sam I Am is (or maybe now we know who Torre has ghostwriting for him).

  283. Tex's New Best Friend January 25th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Can we stop this Yankees didnt make the playoffs vs. Dodgers did? Yankees won more games than the Dodgers. Torre benefitted from Manny and the fact that the NL East is baseballs answer to the AFC and NFC West.

    While Torre is the constant, it cannot be ignored that the Dodgers were barely above .500, and had absolutely no competition.

  284. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    LMAO at “How Joe Torre Ruined my Career” ….classic!!

    what’s funny is, remember how we all rallied to his support in 2007 when Sheffield came out with all those garbage attention ho accusations against him? Well…now Torre is doing the same thing as Sheffield! He’s no better or different as far as I’m concerned. Selling out the Yankee aura and mystique for a quick buck and validation of their butthurtness….pathetic.

  285. m January 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    There’s no such thing as “I was misquoted” when you’re the author or co-author. Torre will stand behind whatever he writes.

    And not all of us are hating Torre. We hate the message, or the fact that it’s being delivered, rather than the messenger.

    It’s sad because he has credibility and he’s giving credence to a lot of what’s been said about Alex.

    I can understand writing all this stuff when he and Alex are both out of the game, but they’re still in it. I hope that Alex just remembers that he’s young, rich, and has it all. Don’t worry about what other people say or write.

  286. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    NL WEST not east

  287. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    “However, without having had the benefit of reading the book, I hope he takes accountability and looks at his own part in how everything seemed to fall apart.”

    Yeah, right… that’ll happen.

  288. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I have to wonder how comfortable Dodgers players will be this season knowing their manager might well write up their private conversations if someone offers him enough money.

  289. RSM January 25th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Here’s an idea…why don’t we wait to form an opinion on Torre until after actually reading the book?

    It amazes me how quickly people will react to these things. A few unconfirmed lines taken from a book not yet released and sensationalized by the media to create a story and off we go.

    Joe is not a saint, and he’s not the devil either. I think most people agree it was time for a change, but you can not argue that making the playoffs 13 years in a row is not respectable, or that Joe had nothing to do with it. It’s just an arguement that holds no water.

  290. joeman January 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    I can’t wait for a isiah thomas book on how hard he had it coaching the Knicks

  291. daniel January 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    no suprise there, the way we treated Torre was classless and who wouldnt want him back to lead the 09 team. what the players think of a-rod is stupid the guy rakes.

  292. A-Jax January 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    http://www.amazon.com/Yankee-Y.....038;sr=8-1

    The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

    Constant meddling from Yankee executives, many of whom were jealous of Torre’s popularity.

    The tension that developed between the old guard and the free agents brought in by management.

    The players who couldn’t resist the after-hours temptations of the Big Apple.

    The joys of managing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, and the challenges of managing Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi.

  293. m January 25th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    86,

    They don’t have to worry. No one cares about what the Dodgers do. Just kidding!

  294. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    “I have to wonder how comfortable Dodgers players will be this season knowing their manager might well write up their private conversations if someone offers him enough money.”

    Wow, good point.

  295. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    As for ARod -

    He’s definitely got some issues with his persona and with the media but is he really a bad teammate?

    I’ve never heard any players say he was a bad teammate. If professional athletes are mad because ARod doesn’t send them cookies at Christams that’s their problem.

    I’ve only heard that he has invested a lot of time with younger players (Cano, Melky) and helped them with their workout routines.

    Why doesn’t Kevin Youkilis get ripped in the press? HE is a bad teammate. Like I said last year, the reason he got slapped by Manny is because Youk is always whining and complaining about his PERSONAL stats.

  296. A-Jax January 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Classy Torre Classy!

  297. RSM January 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    m:

    “I can understand writing all this stuff when he and Alex are both out of the game, but they’re still in it.”

    This is a good point. I wonder if MLB has the authority to make it a rule that people involved in the game professionally can not write a book until after retirement?

  298. E-Man January 25th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    “Here’s an idea…why don’t we wait to form an opinion on Torre until after actually reading the book?”

    Because some of these people are sheep and form their opinions and “knowledge” from reading headlines.

    I bet more than half of them won’t even read the book because they already “know” what it’s about.

  299. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    on another note, anyone watching this Boston/Dallas game? Dayum, and I thought my Heat did badly against Boston!

    The C’s are up by 30 points with 5 mins in the 3rd quarter (95-65) and still playing all 5 of their starters…classy!! Just like the Patriots running up the score…hopefully they will meet the same humiliating end in June.

  300. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    ““I have to wonder how comfortable Dodgers players will be this season knowing their manager might well write up their private conversations if someone offers him enough money.”

    Nobody gives a crap about the Dodgers (unless it’s about Manny).

    The media LOVES anti-Yankee stuff. If I had any dirt on the Yankees I could get a book deal.

  301. m January 25th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    I would think that the book description on Amazon would be pretty accurate. Can’t have false advertising.

    But if Torre comes out with a statement today saying that what’s been reported is false, then I’ll retract everything I said.

  302. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    “The C’s are up by 30 points with 5 mins in the 3rd quarter (95-65) and still playing all 5 of their starters…classy!! Just like the Patriots running up the score…hopefully they will meet the same humiliating end in June.”

    running up the score? It’s the THIRD quarter. It’s not like the Mavericks benched their starters. Why should the Celtics?

    If the Celtics play their starters in the FOURTH, that’s a different story.

    Jeeze, I am all for anti-Boston stuff when it’s warranted but some of you are bordering on pathetic when it comes to seeking out reasons to hate Boston teams.

  303. Bronx Jeers January 25th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    I don’t know what everybody is complaining about.

    Torre and the Yanks had an ugly split. Yanks had a chance to repair it last season and chose not to. Now Torre’s writing a book that tells his side and gives some insider scoops on the dynamic inside the clubhouse. Sounds about right to me. Should be interesting.

  304. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    “the way we treated Torre was classless and who wouldnt want him back to lead the 09 team.”

    Uh, well, me for one….
    especially with all the young arms we have and promising relievers….you want him blowing out Bruney and not giving, say, Robertson a chance to pitch in any big games because he hasnt earned a spot in the Torre Circle of Trust? You want the team going soft in the playoffs again? You want him hanging his best young pitcher out to dry instead of coming out to argue? You want to lose 5 or 6 road games because he won’t pitch Mo if the score is tied, preferring instead to send in his worst relief arm to propmtly surrender the walkoff hit?

    maybe Girardi isnt the right manager for this team, but Torre definitely isnt either. I’d rather have Showalter back.

  305. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    “Here’s an idea…why don’t we wait to form an opinion on Torre until after actually reading the book?”

    ——————————–

    Hey, what a novel idea!

    It’s easier though just to read the “Torre Rips Yankees” headlines and run with it.

    It’s really kind of sad.

  306. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    “His friends in the media will say otherwise but, the book makes Joe Torre look VERY small.”

    I couldn’t agree more – and I’ve always been fairly supportive of Torre.

    It really is very disappointing.

  307. DT January 25th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    At first I thought it was wrong that Torre put words into his former player’s mouth – but then again maybe it was just another example of Joe being a terrific leader and manager.

    Torre could have said “I think Alex is a fraud – and I doubt I’m alone in that thought – ask his teammates.”

    But then – reporters would hound Alex’s teammates and say “Joe said to ask you – Do you agree with his comments?”

    Joe being the ultimate amazing leader he is – puts those “A-Fraud” words in the mouths of the entire team. Now we already know what Alex’s teammates think. There is no need to question anyone. There is no “off the record” needed.

    Torre spoke for all. That folks, is supreme sacrifice. A true leader of men.

  308. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I think 90% of the people who have a problem with this have a problem with the act regardless of the actor. Bad acts shouldn’t get a pass simply because they are done by good people.

    As long as he said A-Rod’s teammates called him A-Fraud it doesn’t matter the context. It won’t sit well with some people because if the players wanted, they could have let that out themselves. And all this truth about the team stuff I’m not buying. He’s not a whistleblower. This isnt Abu Ghraib or Enron.

    I still like Joe Torre. I don’t think he’s a horrible guy. I dont think this is catastrophic but I’m not foolish, naive, or hypersensitive because I happen to not like the comments.

    And I don’t care that 99% of the book could be glowing. If I wrote a 477-page book about someone and 476 pages were positive and on one page I said, “Her co-workers often called her the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.” I’m going to guess whomever was the subject of that book would take issue with that one page.

    Is this deep? No. But I’m tired of people who base actions as acceptable or not based not on the act but who does them.

  309. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Re: Pete’s comments

    I think that most readers were with him when he was just “mad.” But this book sounds totally unprofessional and just utterly ridiculous. Someone let him write 400 pages when he doesn’t know how to make a good insult (or hire someone who does)?

    And this is who we had managing our team for all these years? A manager’s only real job is verbal abuse and this is all he has to show for himself?

    Regardless of how much we love to make fun of A-Rod, one would have to be completely out of their mind to read Torre’s book and come to the conclusion that Torre was more valuable to the Yankees than A-Rod, which I think is what Torre is trying to imply.

  310. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Boston Dave: Orlando benched ALL their starters in the 3rd when blowing out Atlanta in a similar fashion a few weeks ago. Just sayin, I don’t know why any team would do different. Sorry if you’re a C’s fan but the truth is they have acted like b.tches all year, particularly KG’s ridiculous jawing at Calderon and others, and this is no exception. Just seems to an outsider like they are getting a bit too full of myself, and believe me it isnt an anti-Boston bias in this case, I hate the Mavs alot, didnt even dislike Boston heavily until this year.

  311. Sal Cipriano January 25th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Money is money, and Joe Torre is making his, there’s no problem with that. He feels he was screwed, and that’s his right. None of us were there when the offer was presented to him, so we can’t see the looks on the Yankee Execs faces when they did it. Joe did, and I’m sure that played into his leaving. Of course there’s many ways to perceive what happened there, and whatever he talks about in his book. It’s one perspective, one of many.

    As for A-Rod, the same basically goes for him, albeit most of the world, team mates included, see him the same way. Unfortunately, when you get to a level such as his or lets say a Michael Jordan, you begin to skew your view just because of who he is, what he’s done, should/can do, how much money he makes, etc. It puts all eyes on him, and a for a seemingly socially awkward guy like Alex, it hurts him. It’s pretty sad.

  312. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    “Just seems to an outsider like they are getting a bit too full of myself”
    *a bit too full of themselves* that is

  313. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    that Torre was more valuable to the Yankees than A-Rod, which I think is what Torre is trying to imply

    ——————————————

    Where in the world do you get that?

  314. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Pete,

    How do you feel about Torre bashing Giambi?

  315. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    How do you feel about Torre bashing Giambi?
    ——————————————–

    How did he bash him? I’d like to read the qoutes you have that show this.

  316. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    “Regardless of how much we love to make fun of A-Rod, one would have to be completely out of their mind to read Torre’s book and come to the conclusion that Torre was more valuable to the Yankees than A-Rod, which I think is what Torre is trying to imply.”

    I don’t think Torre was saying he was more important than A-Rod.

  317. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    “It’s funny to see the usual suspects all up in arms, like Torre spit on the flag or something.”

    ——————————————————

    JOE TORRE SPIT ON THE FLAG???????
    LYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYNCH HIM!!!!!
    Mr. Bush…. TAP HIS PHONE!!!!

  318. no.27 January 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Trisha,

    “Again, I am waiting for one of you Torre worshipers to give me the names of other managers/coaches, etc. who left their teams on bad terms and wrote a tell-all book, disparaging players and reporting on others’ feelings about certain players, a year after leaving the team.

    Maybe the books are out there, because I admittedly do not read all of the sport books. But I am guessing nobody can give me any names because there aren’t any that fit that – except Joe Torre.

    P.S. I’m not interested on any hybrid suggestions on books that don’t fit that description. We’re talking about someone who left a situation on very bad terms with very bad feelings. He is far from the first to leave a team feeling that way. Give me all of the other books written one year out of a situation that trash the organization, and squeal on how teammates SUPPOSEDLY felt about another player, even giving a disparaging nickname.”

    Phil Jackson wrote “The Last Season: A Team in Search of Its Soul” right after he left the Lakers as the team fell apart. He calls Kobe uncoachable (ARod, maybe Giambi). He talks about how much he loved coaching Shaq (Jeter, Mo). He talks about private meetings when ownership explained why they were trading Shaq and keeping Kobe and comments on Kobe being the reason the championship team was dismantled.

    Phil Jackson is a lot like Joe Torre in that he consistently won with the most talented players in the league (Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe). There was a lot of controversy after the press began to put out bits and pieces of the book to promote it, just like there is now with the Torre book. The situation ended with Kobe Bryant calling Phil Jackson and asking him to come back to coach.

    If you can’t see the similarities in these situations, that’s OK.

    Can you answer my question and list the number of managers in the history of baseball, or any sport for that matter that had a better run than Torre had in NY?

  319. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    What a fascinating collection of comments about a book no one here has read. And I’ve barely made it halfway through.

    What does Mr. Torre have to say about Pettitte/Sheets and 2009?

  320. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    So I guess Alex will now be hearing “single white female” chants when he comes up to bat? Oh fun. :|

  321. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    I have to wonder how comfortable Dodgers players will be this season knowing their manager might well write up their private conversations if someone offers him enough money.

    Seriously. You probably think Torre and Manny deserve each other, but if I were Manny I would make sure to work for someone else.

  322. no.27 January 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Torre was, without a doubt, more important to the Yankees 4 championships than A-Rod.

  323. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    So I guess Alex will now be hearing “single white female” chants when he comes up to bat?

    ————————–

    ?

  324. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    The particulars of any such book are not what’s bothersome. Two things stand out to me. One is I thought that for the most part what happened in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Second is I never would have pegged Torre as the “tell-all” book type. What makes Torre so much different from Canseco here?

    I was (am?) a Torre supporter. I thought he did a marvelous job managing a team with the make-up of the New York Yankees under a megalomaniac owner, albeit one who is willing to spend money to win. In 2006, after losing to Detroit, I was ready for him to be fired. In 2007, I thought the whole situation was mishandled, but I do believe Yankee management wanted him back – you don’t make such an offer “hoping” someone turns it down. But I do believe they handled the situation poorly.

    Oh, and one more thing. I may be dumb or naive or both, but I don’t understand the reference about ARod having a SWF-like obsession. I just don’t get it. :)

  325. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    A-Rod fan:

    Please provide evidence of such “bashing” and I’ll happily comment on it.

  326. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    “Phil Jackson is a lot like Joe Torre in that he consistently won with the most talented players in the league (Jordan/Pippen and Shaq/Kobe).”

    Another thing Jackson and Torre have in common is that the talent was already there for them, all they had to do is push a few easy buttons, neither of them ever really built their championship teams themselves!

    guys like Pat Riley and Tony LaRussa are heads and shoulders above them.

  327. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Spare me the no one has read the book spiel because no one ever knows what goes on within the organization or between players or in a marriage or in contract negotiations or arbitration or trades or anywhere else but no one hesitates to comment.

  328. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Hello all looks like a I missed a lot!! Luckily for Moose the news didn’t break till after the dinner!! Although he still has the beat writers dinner. I’ll post pictures of the event once I get settle. I’ll say Moose is a class act and he will sorely be missed!

  329. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    http://blog.nj.com/hobokennow/.....Female.jpg

    Someone is going to have to photoshop Alex and Jetes on this picture

  330. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    “Can you answer my question and list the number of managers in the history of baseball, or any sport for that matter that had a better run than Torre had in NY?”

    oh, I didn’t see this part but now I’ll answer your question directly: Pat Riley and Tony LaRussa. LaRussa may have never had the same success for the same length of time in one place, but he built his winning teams himself. Torre on the other hand, everything was pretty much already set up for him when he took over, Buck and Stick had already done all the heavy lifting.

  331. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Second is I never would have pegged Torre as the “tell-all” book type.

    ————————————

    So you’ve read the book?

    Like Pete said, this leaked stuff hardly classifies it as a tell all book. We all knew it already.

    Now if he includes something like “Posada kicks puppies before games to fire himself up” then maybe I’d say it was a tell all book.

  332. Jack Knight January 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    5% of the book is negative, and it will be the media’s 100% focus.

  333. Laura - Andy, please sign or retire so we can stop talking about you! January 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    I haven’t read the Torre book, but I am disappointed by what it supposedly contains. To me, Torre’s constant ragging on A-Rod comes across as his own Single White Female obsession.

    I don’t think this will bother the players like some on here are saying. They will get asked about it and they will brush it off. I do think that Joe Torre will be waiting quite a long time for his #6 to be retired by NYY.

  334. Mark in Tampa January 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    “I don’t understand the reference about ARod having a SWF-like obsession.”

    I am assuming that Arod at one point cut his hair like DJ, used liberal amounts of Jeter cologne, and probably wore a no.2 jersey in the privacy of his home. Probably has an Edge in blazing copper that he drives only at night.

  335. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    “I don’t understand the reference about ARod having a SWF-like obsession.”

    I am assuming that Arod at one point cut his hair like DJ, used liberal amounts of Jeter cologne, and probably wore a no.2 jersey in the privacy of his home. Probably has an Edge in blazing copper that he drives only at night”

    Let’s just hope Alex doesn’t start grounding into copious amounts of double plays now! :)

  336. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    This sounds like much more fun than finding evidence for my argument for the paper I’m supposed to be writing, so sure! I’ll have it in the comment section by 5!

  337. Buster January 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Based off this thread, if there is one person that is bitter, that is the user ‘Trisha’.

    It’s like a partisan hack rallying around people who agree with them and displaying boastful pride.

    WE GET IT.

    You don’t like the man.

    Joe Torre ALSO wrote a book after they won the first championship with Verducci.
    Obviously, the Yankees. with all their stars, are in demand. In my view, Torre is writing a book reflecting on his glory days of the Yankees.

    Of the 300 pages that are written, 290 are probably butt-kissing nostalgia. Like most “tell-all books”, only a fraction are excerpts which have something negative and biased.

    Way to over-react. I guess Torre is small and bitter. After all, Trisha, you are trashing a man who’s book you won’t even spend a penny on nor bother reading.

    Way to walk the high road.

  338. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Well, looks like I need an extension until Feb 3 at 5 PM EST. Tx.

  339. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Yes Jennifer thats right please do. I wrote about Torre on my blog today, boy this is getting a lot of press. I would of loved to hear Moose comment on Torre, how long until the press gets to Arod,Jeter Etc.

  340. Sean Serritella January 25th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    BBB, I think you’re getting the way you think of how a manager should manage all wrong. Managers, manage. They’re not supposed to draft players and pick free agents. That’s the GM’s job. Joe Torre took a team and “managed” them to 4 World Series titles. I don’t agree with what Joe Torre is doing with his book if it a gossip type of book but you have to give him some credit.

    Some managers wouldn’t of taken that 96 team or maybe even that 98 team to the WS.

  341. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105414/

    There you go, Doreen. SWF explanation.

    I think its a fairly overdone and overwrought adjective in this situation myself given the outcome of the movie, but there you have it. :)

  342. Mitchell January 25th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    I just met Michael Kay.

  343. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    My sympathies, Mitchell.

    :D

  344. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    How Ironic the guest blog said Torre’s number will be retired. Not so sure now.

  345. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Am I the only one concerned about the allegation, courtesy of RAB, that when Torre was diagnosed with prostate cancer, the team doctors told Steinbrenner _first_ before telling Torre?

    It’s either a breach of medical ethics or breach of journalism ethics and I’m not sure I want to know which.

  346. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    “guys like Pat Riley and Tony LaRussa are heads and shoulders above them.”

    Seems to me Pat Riley made his bones coaching a Lakers team he inherited, which featured 3 Hall of Famers and an outstanding supporting cast.

  347. Mitchell January 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    haha

  348. Mitchell January 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    haha

  349. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Sean: You’re right, Torre does deserve some credit. I didn’t mean to imply that he merits none – guess I was just focusing on his negatives the way he apparently focused on the negatives of our beloved Yankees and the team’s best player :)

    Torre’s biggest strength is as a manager or relationships and egos and he has always done a great job with that for sure…to me, that will be the biggest part of his Yankee legacy, except he does kind of compromise that now by coming out and bashing some of the very egos he managed so well for years.

    And you’re right, managers aren’t responsible for personnel decisions (Riley would be an exception here, he runs the show from the bench or upstairs) but many managers like LaRussa or Parcells in the NFL have had players that they’ve liked very much and given them prominent roles because of that, and the rest of the sport doesn’t see what they see in those players UNTIL those players help them win. LaRussa and Dave Duncan have an eye for promise and greatness, and develop guys they see as potential gems that conventional wisdom would see as scrubs. Torre doesn’t have that IMO.

  350. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    “Can you answer my question and list the number of managers in the history of baseball, or any sport for that matter that had a better run than Torre had in NY?”

    Red Aurbach (sp?), Scotty Bowman, Chuck Knoll, Phil Jackson, maybe even Bill Belichik.

  351. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    “Seems to me Pat Riley made his bones coaching a Lakers team he inherited, which featured 3 Hall of Famers and an outstanding supporting cast.”

    Seems to me the Lakers arent the only winning team Riley coached…

  352. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Gregg Popovich is another one.

  353. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    “Am I the only one concerned about the allegation, courtesy of RAB, that when Torre was diagnosed with prostate cancer, the team doctors told Steinbrenner first before telling Torre?”

    Very troubling,if true.

  354. Fran January 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    SJ – As a Jet fan I was pleased to read what you wrote about Rex Ryan in your earlier post. I really liked what I saw of him at his introductory press conference.

  355. m January 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Rebecca,

    Yes, that would concern me. But did it concern Torre? How many year-to-year contracts did he sign after the breach?

  356. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    College doesn’t count? Because if so, then its all over and the list is looong and distinguished LOL.

  357. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    From what I heard on the radio Torre’s legacy gets knocked down a few more pegs. Say what you want about Cash/the yankees. But when you start to trash a player that is really low. It is quite clear that Joe didn’t like Alex. From batting him 8th, to revealing a ‘private’ meeting with him, now this. For someone who is supposed to be so classy, that just wasn’t very classy.

  358. m January 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Lara,

    Agreed. Kay Yow and Pat Summit would’ve run circles around Torre. I was so moved to see footage of her girls wearing pink jerseys and every one of them had “Yow” on the backs of their jerseys.

  359. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    m- and I am tired of hearing him complain about the incentives, when according to cotts he has had them in past contracts.

  360. m January 25th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    I find this kind of disturbing, too.

    Anectdotal evidence is enough to get a player suspended? If I was the commisioner, this kind of stuff wouldn’t happen.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3859231

  361. m January 25th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    And, no, that’s not a typo. As commissioner, I changed the spelling. :)

  362. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    “Seems to me the Lakers arent the only winning team Riley coached…”

    Fair enough. Have to give him a little credit for the Heat title.

  363. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Jennifer: I’m not even sure he really has much room to be trashing Cash. The man was nothing but respectful to him. How long is Cash supposed to let Torre outlive his usefulness, ya know? He threw him an (undeserved, imo) life vest after the Sheffield batting 3rd and playing 1b/Alex batting 8th disaster in 06, but after ’07 with all the disastrous bullpen management and not asking for time in the bug game (he sat on the bench like he didnt even care!) I don’t think there was anything Cash could have done, so for Torre to be whining about Cash not supporting him is horrible, IMO. Cash is the reason he was a Yankee as long as he was!

    Also, speaking of the bug game, Torre is sure all over Cashman for hanging him out to dry after that season ended, but I suppose we shouldn’t hold our breath waiting for HIM to take responsibility for hanging Joba out to dry in that game!! Seems very ‘do as I say, not as I do’ of him!

  364. Sean Serritella January 25th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    BBB, so you believe that Torre didn’t play some players that should of played more and he didn’t see certain player’s potential? I’ll agree with some of that but he did start Derek Jeter when I feel Buck wouldn’t of started Jeter if Buck was still there in 1996.

  365. m January 25th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Steve B,

    No. Gotta give the refs credit for that one. Just search “phantom foul” on youtube.

  366. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Joe Torre did a great job and he is missed. Girardi did a lousy job and he will not be missed when he is fired this year. He has no apptitude for the job. I thought he got a bum rap in Florida, but I was wrong. He screws with players pysches and their professionalism. He took away things in the clubhouse to assert his power. He is a control freak that doesn’t belong in a Yankee uniform as a manager. I will be glad when he is gone.

    Hopefully, he hasn’t ruined Cano, S. Duncan, Melky, Hughes, Kennedy & others. He is a jerk. Ask Pete, he is a closed minded control freak jerk who tries to control everything from injuries to information, to junk food.

    BTW, the Dodgers made the playoffs with tremendous amount of injuries to star players because of Joe Torre, not in spite of him. He is cool & trustworthy!

    I believe Joe Torre bit the bullet for years & still did a great job! There is a reason Guidry became the Yankees Pitching Coach & Mel was made to leave earlier. Also, the Yankees left Joe out of the celebration of old Yankee Stadium. To me it sounds like in spite of everything, the Yankees wanted to get rid of Joe because he was becoming more loved than the owners! Just a thought. Maybe ARod will grow up. To compare Joe D to ARod is disgusting. Joe D lived & died Yankee blood while ARod has a long ways to go.

  367. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Steve: Yeah, anyone who engineers the biggest trade in NBA history to get Antoine Walker of all people, and then turns that into a title, definitely deserves a good deal of credit! His work with the Heat has always been second to none, they would be a joke of a franchise if he had never stepped in.

    also, I was pretty young when he was with the Knicks, but I bet most coaches would have wanted Starks sent packing as soon as they could legally get rid of him…

  368. DT January 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    I’m wondering what the reaction will be in the NY and national media about these “A-Fraud” story leaks. Pete was already kind enough to share his views.

    A-rod will never win any popularity contests. Many who covered Alex have probably heard the “phony and fraud” stuff off the record anyway.

    True or not it doesn’t excuse anyone for speaking on behalf of others.

    I wonder if it would be received differently if it were Jeter or Mattingly in the leaked story?

    What if the book leak was “Most of our Dodger players don’t think highly of Donnie as a hitting coach”
    or
    “Most Yankee teammates think it’s a joke that Derek is a team captain. He’s not a true leader”

    Does speaking out on behalf of others seem worse if you don’t believe the comment or if it’s a Yankee icon?

  369. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    “No. Gotta give the refs credit for that one. Just search “phantom foul” on youtube.”

    haterade!!! :)

    lots of bs calls against Zo and Haslem in that same series that are never mentioned!

  370. Jason from The Heartland January 25th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I blogged about exactly that, Rebecca. If true, it’s at least unprofessional and downright unethical. As if Torre could not have been told first. Again, it’s worth reiterating that it might not be true. Nor have I seen Torre’s book or what evidence he claims to have to support that assertion. But the allegation and its implications are disturbing.

  371. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Fortunately, I really don’t think this Torre book will affect the Yankees too badly….if at all. They can all have a good eye-rolling party and get back to work. If Torre wants to concentrate on his book tour, that’s his problem. It will only be a problem for the Yankees if they allow it to be.

  372. bodhisattva January 25th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Peter Abraham
    January 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
    The Yankees ran a video before the last game and did not include Torre as one of the greatest managers in team history. There were other snubs as well, including team execs not showing up as promised at his charity dinner.
    There also were numerous instances in spring training last season when team officials (like Hank, etc.) made references about how much better things would be with Girardi as manager, how the team would work harder, etc. We all saw how that worked out.
    So if Torre is mad, he’s mad. It’s not for any of us to say whether he has that right, people feel the way they want to feel.
    There are no closed doors any more. Players have publicists and web sites and Twitter accounts and Facebook pages. Everybody wants to write a book, so will the cornerstone Yankees when they retire. It’s what people do.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Being snubbed by Steinbrenner and his minions justifies Torre breaching the ethics of a manager, entitling him to air clubhouse laundry of the players he “trusts” so much? Let him go after Cashman and Steinbrenner, or that rat Levine.

    Does he not understand those players are in the same situation? They have no safe distance from what is their clubhouse reality. It’s not like they’re all retired or on different teams. So much for “trust.”

  373. PJH January 25th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    I was not the biggest Torre fan, but I thought he was an honorable man, above nonsense books the likes of Jose Canseco would write. I could see why he would want to write a book, but there is no need to bury a former player in it. It is low class.

  374. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Sean: Yes, exactly. Especially if those players were relatively unheralded rookies. It seems like the Yankees have had a lot of those guys over the years who went on to be solid contributors to other teams.

    You’re probably right that Buck wouldn’t have given Jeter the same chance, but he definitely had trust issues of his own too. And also, I think Torre was much better at seeing the potential with youngsters in the beginning of his Yankee career…but in recent years it almost seemed like he had become complacent in many respects, that being just one of them.

    I guess a part of me will always wonder, is it that Torre got worse at his job over the years, or is it that Zim made him look better than he really was in the beginning?

  375. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Bob (the Original)

    Why are you attacking my statement?

    That was my initial reaction to what I read here, before reading through 1 hour’s worth of commentary. I thought my reaction was pretty mild compared to what’s been said here. I stand by my statement. I wouldn’t have thought Joe Torre was a man who would write a tell-all.

    And perhaps it is NOT a typical tell-all. Then, I’d be right, wouldn’t I, to have been surprised that he did?

    I didn’t not criticize Torre. Just the idea of writing a tell-all. If it’s a book about his experiences in NY, well, then, I would say he’s more than entitled to write such a book. He’s had unique experiences managing here.

    And since my initial statement, someone here posted a “blurb” from Barnes & Noble which sounds pretty innocuous. Why would it be newsworthy or surprising that Torre loved managing Jeter & Mo, but had challenges managing ARod & Giambi? That makes sense to me, based solely on what very little I know about the players involved. Why would it be a shock to my system that he had disagreements with ownership and management during his tenure?

    Did you read what I wrote about Torre having done a marvelous job here, dealing with said ownership and the varied personalities and egos of the players he had to manage?

    If it’s a tell-all, if all the book does is air dirty club-house laundry, it will be disappointing to me, because I think such a book serves no purpose but to make money, and I think it is a betrayal of trust by the person in a clubhouse whose trust should not be questioned.

    I also think he could have waited until he retired to write a memoir, but I also understand that you must strike while the iron is hot and capitalize on your popularity while you have it. The man has an interesting story to tell – there are very few who have managed the Yankees for as long as he had and none under the Steinbrenner regime. it is a unique story. I hope the quotes in the Post are taken out of context and that overall it is a worthwhile book.

  376. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v484/jenn7878/

    Here are pictures from the Meet and Greet, not many of Mike since the lighting was pretty bad. But he brought a lot of nice things for us to look at. He brought a ball from every win this year, the glove Jose Molina gave him, his locker room chair.

  377. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v484/jenn7878/

    Here are pictures from the Meet and Greet, not many of Mike since the lighting was pretty bad. But he brought a lot of nice things for us to look at. He brought a ball from every win this year, the glove Jose Molina gave him, his locker room chair.

    The password to view the album is mussina2009

  378. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    How honorable was Torre when his best friends were fired by the Yankees? Why didn’t he stand up for them?

  379. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    When all is said and done, I think A-Rod should just use the smack talk as bulletin board material. Hopefully that will make this end up being more of a positive for the Yankees….and it’s an odd numbered year too… :)

  380. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    371 emotion-packed comments so far!!!!!!
    And what, may I ask, does this topic have to do with the ever pressing Andy Pettitte/Ben Sheets subject matter?

  381. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Hey Buster – is your real name Pete? Just wondering.

    :D

  382. 86w183 January 25th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    No it won’t affect this team at all, but if I’m a Dodgers player I’m not trusting Torre with anything I might want to discuss. That can’t be good for them. Nor can it be good for him if hos clubhouse has guys who don’t/won’t trust him.

    Torre had an epic run from 1996-2001. But from 2002-07 it was pretty ordinary including losing his last four post-season series. Still, he ranks with the greatest managers with his four WS titles and six pennants. This book un does a lot of good will in my view and more than compensates for the oversight in ignoring him in the stadium send off.

  383. m January 25th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Oi, Pete. I wished that Brady had used the Lakers’ surgeon.

  384. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    86w183

    Good point.

  385. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    I don’t suppose many posters here would be too unhappy with a Yankees/Dodgers World Series this fall?

  386. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    “If it’s a tell-all, if all the book does is air dirty club-house laundry, it will be disappointing to me, because I think such a book serves no purpose but to make money, and I think it is a betrayal of trust by the person in a clubhouse whose trust should not be questioned. ”

    Agreed – and it is important to put the qualifying “IF” in there since we don’t really know either way yet…just him dissing A-Rod and dissing Cash for not protecting him a month after he himself failed to protect Joba is enough to irk me though!

    But I digress…if it does prove to be 100% airing dirty laundry, then it is no different than the moneymaking tell all garbage Sheffield came out with in the summer of 07. Everybody here was massively enraged over that (with good reason) so I would hope that Torre would not be getting a free pass from some fans for doing basically the same thing.

    It’s too bad there aren’t more in the game like Tino…I thought the Yankees acted terribly toward him when they signed Giambi, I never saw him harbor a shred of bitterness towards the team. Now THAT’s a True Yankee!

  387. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Angel -

    Thank you for answering my question about the SWF reference. I agree with you – it’s a little far-fetched.

  388. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    “Torre had an epic run from 1996-2001. But from 2002-07 it was pretty ordinary including losing his last four post-season series. Still, he ranks with the greatest managers with his four WS titles and six pennants. This book un does a lot of good will in my view and more than compensates for the oversight in ignoring him in the stadium send off.”

    If you listen to the comments on the FAN and read the comments after some of the articles about the book, you’ll see that your view is running far in front of anyone who sees nothing wrong with what Torre did.

  389. Jeff NJ January 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    I’d just like to say THANK YOU to Joe Torre for the championships, the class and most importantly, for FILLING THE VOID ON A SLOW NEWS DAY. If we had to argue about whether Pettitte is worth $10M or $11M I would shoot myself in the head.

    Oh and one other thing. This actually sounds like a good book, I can’t wait to read it.

  390. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Hey Jen, is Moose’s wife attractive? Is Moose as appealing in person as he is in his pictures? I always thought of him as a real handsome guy1

  391. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    “Mark Melancon
    Born 3/28/1985 (23 years old)
    RHP, NYY

    After gaining national attention as the award winning closer at U Arizona, Melancon’s selection by the Yankees in the 2006 draft had ‘Rivera Replacement’ written all over it. After taking a year and a half to climb back up from TJ surgery, his fastball has returned, and he’s about as ready for the big-leagues as any prep pitcher has ever been. That 95mph fastball and hammer curve should play well in Yankee Stadium, and by all reports, Melancon has the big game attitude and short memory that closers need to succeed at any level. He should crack the Yankees bullpen this season, perhaps ending up as Mariano’s setup man and heir apparent before 2009 is finished.”

    http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2515

  392. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    There are two topics that will always be lightning rods here: Arod and Joe Torre’s departure from the Yanks.

  393. Dave January 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    Joe Torre = Classless fraud. Glad the old fool is gone and stewing with the Dodgers. I guess nobody cares that he is mangaging the Dodgers so he has to remind everyone he was once Yankee manager. What a jealous old bum.

    Hey Joe, I hope there is a chapter about you blowing a 3-0 lead to the Red Sux.

  394. Gus G. January 25th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Got to meet Brian Bruney today in Albany. He was doing a local telethon here with NY Giants Derek Ward and Steve Smith. Nice guy. My 18 month old son got his autograph in a “Yankees 101″ book made for toddlers. It was funny, he walks up to Bruney with his book (no clue why other than the fact I told him to), and Bruney says to him “Hey, what’s up little dude!” He signed his book, then the two of them posed for a picture for the telethon photographer and I wished him a great season. Hopefully he wins his arbitration case, it looks like he was still wearing his clothes from when he was 30 pounds heavier. In retrospect I wish I had gotten a photo of the two of them. Oh well, memory photo will do. Hopefully he has a healthy productive season.

  395. Brian January 25th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Just trying to sell books but seems a bit class-less by Torre.

    Torre was lost on me after pitched Jeff Weaver in the World Series (in extra innings no less!) after not having used him for a month! One of the worst managerial decisions in the history of baseball!

    Further lost on me after he failed to get off his fat ass and go to the mound and protect his pitcher after Joba got swarmed by bugs.

  396. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    “Austin Jackson
    Born 2/1/1987 (21 years old)
    OF, NYY

    Another very young Yankees prospect who’s frustrated scouts by showing only flashes of his tremendous potential, Jackson remains the brightest potential bat in the New York stable.

    Promoted from the South Atlantic League to the Florida State League in 2007, he started to show the ability to hit to all fields, but he’s still not ready for the big-time. He put in a full season at AA Trenton in 2008, hitting .285/.354/.419 and showing some wheels with 19 steals in 25 attempts, but his power (only 9 homers in over 500 at-bats) hasn’t yet caught up to his other tools. He looks solid in the field, though, and his natural speed should produce better and better base-stealing numbers as he learns the craft.

    He’s still not ready for 2009, but if his bat can catch up to his speed and defense, he’ll have a strong future with the Yankees, or in one of their ever-looming trade packages.”

    http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2182

  397. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    “Hey Joe, I hope there is a chapter about you blowing a 3-0 lead to the Red Sux.”

    And not bunting on the bloody sock…and pitching Jeff Weaver instead of Mariano…and bending over letting Sheffield and his ridiculous demands take him hostage in the 06 ALDS….and batting A-Rod 6th then 8th…and destroying all those bullpen arms…and managing a bullpen so poorly it forced Cashman to author an Idiot’s Guide To Using Chamberlain Out of the Pen…and hanging the aforementioned Chamberlain (and the entire team, really) out to dry in the 07 ALDS….the list goes on and I’m sure Torre will take responsibility for exactly 0 of these things in his book.

  398. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    jen, I can’t find where to put the password to get into the album!

  399. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    As an aside for Nick in SF…..

    Terrific guest blog the other day! I have been travelling a lot, and will be on the road again all next week, and didn’t have the chance to offer congrats for such a well done piece!

  400. SJ44 January 25th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    As an aside for Nick in SF…..

    Terrific guest blog the other day! I have been travelling a lot, and will be on the road again all next week, and didn’t have the chance to offer congrats for such a well done piece!

  401. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    “Boston Dave: Orlando benched ALL their starters in the 3rd when blowing out Atlanta in a similar fashion a few weeks ago.”

    Paul Pierce – 22 minutes played. Kevin Garnett – 25 minutes played.

    If you are going to rip Boston teams for any reason, rational or not.. fine. I’m just calling a spade a spade.

  402. Bob(The Original) January 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Dave
    January 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
    Joe Torre = Classless fraud. Glad the old fool is gone and stewing with the Dodgers. I guess nobody cares that he is mangaging the Dodgers so he has to remind everyone he was once Yankee manager. What a jealous old bum.

    Hey Joe, I hope there is a chapter about you blowing a 3-0 lead to the Red Sux.

    —————————————

    Well at least you showed your ignorance in less than 100 words this time.

  403. Yankee2123 January 25th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    Torre can say what he wants about Arod, Cashman & The Steinbrenner family, but he should be careful not to turn the fans against him. If he keeps projecting hostility towards the Yankees, it’s going to filter down to the City and the fans. If Torre doesn’t think he can get booed out of Yankee stadium, he had better think again. It’s to his benefit to stay above the trash talk, he has always gotten respect for being an above board type of guy. But what this latest book shoew, is that he’s willling to go gutter level to turn a buck, and spew some venom at those who he believes wronged him.

  404. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    welcome back SJ44. It will be nice to have you back posting soon (CB as well).

    Hopefully that will help lift the blog from the depths of dave’s perpetual Pettite/Sheets rants.

  405. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Jenn I can’t get into the album either. Where do we put the password??

  406. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Nothing funnier than people who have not read the book commenting here and/or calling WFAN to rip Torre.

    It reminds me when the head of NYPD union ripped Bruce Springsteen over a song that was supposedly anti-cop. A reporter asked if him he heard the song or read the lyrics and he admitted he had not and didn’t need to to make his criticisms.

    People who aren’t intelligent operate that way, especially on the internet. They just decide something is true because they want it to be true. They’re sheep.

    Oh, heavens, some Yankees don’t like Alex. How could Joe reveal such shocking news? I had no idea. What nerve.

    Here’s an idea: read the entire book and then form an opinion.

    Oh, and trust me when I tell you that Torre did not write a “tell-all” because telling all about the Yankees would fill a hell of a lot more than one book.

  407. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Any ideas on who was the crying high-priced ace?

  408. Larry January 25th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Several hundred posts back, someone said Arod whined about batting 8th in Detroit. I never saw that. I saw many quotes from him after the game. That he wanted to stay a Yankee, that he thought he was part of the solution, not the problem.

    Now, did he say he liked batting 8th? Of course not, but that’s a far cry from whining about it. Of course the subject was going to come up after the game WHETHER he brought it up or not. The media was going to ask him about it. Granted, I wasn’t in the lockerroom, but I saw no quotes where he whined.

    Next spring training, same thing. Naturally, he admitted not liking being moved to 8th, but who would? He said that he only had himself to blame for winding up there because of how he’d hit.

    Hey, I’ve knocked Arod plenty over the years, but not here.
    I have never seen a quote from him where he complained about being moved around in the batting order, as happened plenty his first 3 years here. I saw him get double switched out of a game against the Mets, in 2006, without seeing any complaints.

    Not arguing whether he’s a diva or disliked by his teammates, though.

  409. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    jennifer
    January 25th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
    How honorable was Torre when his best friends were fired by the Yankees? Why didn’t he stand up for them?

    Well Jennifer, Torre did stand up for them! Mel came back several times. He also brought in great Coaches who could replace him, something Girardi is afraid of doing. (Bowa, Randolph, Mattingly, Pena, Zimmer) Girardi had his click and they killed the Yankees last year. 3B coach anyone? Torre has always been upfront and honest. He told Sierra to his face he was stupid. Later, he told Sierra that he was welcome because Sierra grew up. Torre coached with Yankee pride. Girardi is a jerk & a clown. Cashman fought for Joe Torre as well, but ultimately he saved his own skin.

    I am sure we only know the half of what went on and thankfully so. Joe Torre will be remembered by fans! There are a lot of egos & power mongers in the NYY serfdom. Torre’s toppling openned avenues for others to get glory or blame! I expect Girardi to be fired by July 2009.

  410. Jeff NJ January 25th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    Peter, it sounds like you may have to be the one to write the tell all. God knows you would sell 200,000 copies. I know you can’t admit it today, but it would definitely be a must read.

  411. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    So if someone writes a book calling Pete a racist, misogynist that part won’t matter because it was only a line or two?

    And people didn’t like what it has been said is in a book Joe Torre wrote. Boo friggin hoo! Chill out with the defense. You’re no better than the side you criticize Pete. It is what it is.

  412. Jason from The Heartland January 25th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

    Exactly on the Celtics’ minutes, Boston Dave. Agreed. Plus, and I comment as a Celtics fan (Yankees fan as well), the Celtics’ starters haven’t logged lots of minutes in many of their wins because they’ve jumped out to big, early leads. They might have played in the third because they’ve not been taxed night in and night out.

  413. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Pete – can you understand that some of us and apparently a lot of other people out there think that it is pretty classless for a former manager to write a book about what went on in the lockerroom and especially divulging things that players may have said about another player?

    If all of what has been promo’d is true, I find it especially reprehensible because Torre knows as well as the rest of the world does that Alex visits multiple psychiatrists in the course of a week. While Torre had a father who was terrible, according to him, and whose behavior left scars on his kids, Alex didn’t have the benefit of having a father at all save for a few years of his life. Anyone who is visiting multiple psychiatrists is obviously dealing with a lot of stuff. What good possibly could Torre have done as to be so insensitive as to write the stuff he did, if he did? I know Alex isn’t his problem anymore, but Alex is someone’s problem, and the more heaped on his plate, the harder it will be for him to perform well – unless that was part of the intent.

  414. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    To add to my prior comment about how I think the team will be fine:

    It helps that there are some new guys on this team that just don’t care what went on under Torre. Tex and A-Rod had a brief spat and apparently all is fine – Tex is utterly professional from what I can tell. CC is a friendly, happy sort whose personality just lights up a room ; AJ is quirky – and Swisher is supposed to be an outstanding clubhouse guy. The Yankees basically are a bunch of good guys – Alex is eccentric, perhaps, but he’s by no means bad. I think everyone that was here before just wants to turn the page and the new guys want to create new memories.

    I don’t think we have to worry about Cashman dragging this out -he’ll be pretty tightlipped. Hal might say something like “I’m sorry that Joe feels the way he does. He was a key part of our championship teams and we value his contributions” – something blando like that. Hal’s big worry will be keeping Hank from going off. Once ST starts, the team is just going to care about getting the proper workouts in and staying healthy.

  415. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Pete -

    Where else are we to comment on this, but for here? :)

    I agree it’s premature to rip without reading the whole book, but it is fair to comment on the fact of a book being written and the (very) little bit of it that’s been made known.

  416. m January 25th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    I resent the term “sheep”. Did he write those things or not? I’m a Yankee fan and if someone rips the organization, then I take exception.

    And, Pete, no where in my book is it okay to publicly embarrass your peers.

    I came up with that one on my own. Not the alpha-ram.

    Baaaaa. :)

  417. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    SA: If I had to take a guess on the high priced ace, my top choices would be either Brown or Johnson. For all the badazzery they tried to exude by cursing out cameramen and punching brick walls, both of them acted like total pansies throughout their Yankee tenures!

  418. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    If someone writes a book about anything and it is all rosey, then it isn’t believable. I find it funny that the people who rip ARod daily here are the same ones defending ARod in Torre’s book. Give it a break! Joe deserves our respect because he earned it. BTW, there is probably nothing in that book he hasn’t stated to each individual face to face. Why? Because that is who Joe is! He doesn’t need to soothe someones butt, he is his own man & quite confident in who he is!

    Why did Bowa & Mattingly go with Joe if he was sooo bad?

    Look at the facts. Torre won in NY w/o pitching & with pitching. Girardi lost in FL with pitching & he lost in NY w/o pitching. Girardi was promised the job before the 2007 season started. He backstabbed Torre! The players knew it! Now Girardi is looking over his shoulder because that is who he is! IMO, the Yankees won’t win until he is gone.

  419. Todd January 25th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Yanks need to sign Manny to stick it to Joe…..

  420. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    To add to my comments about the Yankees being fine:

    It helps that there are some new guys on this team that just don’t care what went on under Torre. Tex and A-Rod had a brief spat and apparently all is fine – Tex is utterly professional from what I can tell. CC is a friendly, happy sort whose personality just lights up a room ; AJ is quirky – and Swisher is supposed to be an outstanding clubhouse guy. The Yankees basically are a bunch of good guys – Alex is eccentric, perhaps, but he’s by no means bad. I think everyone that was here before just wants to turn the page and the new guys want to create new memories.

    I don’t think we have to worry about Cashman dragging this out -he’ll be pretty tightlipped. Hal might say something like “I’m sorry that Joe feels the way he does. He was a key part of our championship teams and we value his contributions” – something blando like that. Hal’s big worry will be keeping Hank from going off. Once ST starts, the team is just going to care about getting the proper workouts in and staying healthy.

  421. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Todd:

    excellent point!

  422. m January 25th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Oops. That was Torre ripping his peers. Not you ripping the sheep. :)

    Betsy. If you don’t want your text struck out, you need to stop putting hyphens around your text.

  423. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    Pete, we know you don’t like Alex. Your sarcastic (and it was not funny) comment about how he’s such a great teammate, he’s won sooo many championships said it all. Then, you go on to say that no one likes him……That’s ridiculous and it’s just not believable. Are you claiming these newspaper blurbs are made up?

  424. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Betsy – you can put hyphens, but you have to surround a hyphen with spaces on either side.

  425. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    “Look at the facts. Torre won in NY w/o pitching & with pitching. Girardi lost in FL with pitching & he lost in NY w/o pitching.”

    How can you say to look at the facts and then come out with spin like this in the very next sentence? Torre won in NY with no pitching and the number one offense in baseball, Girardi lost with no pitching and the 7th or 8th ranked offense in the game, didnt he?

    Also, how do you know that Girardi was promised the job before ’07 and backstabbed Torre?
    Furthermore, I guess I’m the only one who remembers that that Marlins team was supposed to lose 100 games and instead they contended until September?

    I’m not saying Girardi is the answer as Yankee manager (time will tell if he is or not) or that he doesn’t have his flaws, but to break him down to build Torre up is kind of lame. Especially when your “facts” are actually kind of more like half truths.

  426. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Mel, thanks! It’s annoying, so I’ll be more careful. The Yankees just have to not give this book any more publicity than it deserves. The media will get the idea as soon as the GM, owner and players say “no comment”. The 2009 season is soon to begin and there are more important things to be concerned about.

  427. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    Doreen, I must be pressing the hyphen bar by mistake – I’m typing way too fast for my own good. I just need to slow down, lol.

  428. m January 25th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Betsy,

    It’s not annoying. We just want to “see” what you write. Can you imagine if dave started and ended with hyphens? :)

  429. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    No comment until i read the book !

    And Pete why you ripping peeps for there own opinion.calling them sheep in pathetic

  430. Tantron Willoughby January 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    What a surprise to learn that Aroid is a detestable and team chemistry breaking cancer. Like I have said before, the curse of Arod will continue for 9 more years and he will continue to rack up his meaningless padded stats while he breaks Aron’s record. Pathetic!

  431. Tantron Willoughby January 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    What a surprise to learn that Aroid is a detestable and team chemistry breaking cancer. Like I have said before, the curse of Arod will continue for 9 more years and he will continue to rack up his meaningless padded stats while he breaks Aron’s record. Pathetic!

  432. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    m -

    Ohmigosh! Could you imagine 6-inches worth of hyphened-out posts!!!! :lol:

  433. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    “Nothing funnier than people who have not read the book commenting here and/or calling WFAN to rip Torre.”

    You wrote about it here, so I can correctly assume you’ve read the entire thing? If you don’t think people should comment about it having not read it, then maybe you should have turned comments off for this post?

    I’m not ripping him, not in the least. Human nature allows me to understand why he wrote it. However, it doesn’t stop me feeling disappointed that he included the things he did based on the little that’s been released. The rest of the book could be awesome, but it still doesn’t take away from the fact that aspects of it leave a bad taste in my mouth. I stand by that.

    And this is coming from someone who has always been pretty much supportive and understanding of him and is not a sheep in the least.

  434. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    “It reminds me when the head of NYPD union ripped Bruce Springsteen over a song that was supposedly anti-cop. A reporter asked if him he heard the song or read the lyrics and he admitted he had not and didn’t need to to make his criticisms.”

    Ah, the old “41 Shots” controversy. I was given 2 (free) tickets to see Bruce-7th row in the Garden!-from my then neighbor because he was a Cop and did not support Bruce anymore.

  435. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Hey Angel, welcome back!

  436. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    I am going to see if I can get a biography of Joe D. A great Yankee player, but from what little I’ve actually read about him, I wouldn’t be so quick to say he was the epitome of a Yankee. And I would observe he was quirky, as is ARod. But times are different. So, now I am a bit curious. Anyone know of a good book on Joe DiMaggio?

  437. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Actually there are just a lot of “pot calling the kettle black” types.

    I tend to think those who seem to be fair in how they judge all and don’t play favorites when this kind of stuff happens are the “sheep” and “A-Rod supporters” and “Girardi kool-aid drinkers”

  438. Tantron Willoughby January 25th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Peter, you should write the tell all book since you apparently know more than has been let on. I bet the biggest shocker would be the guy to the left of Aflop? I bet you would make a killing.

  439. BBB January 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Angel: Well-said. And not only that but since some of us here are actually big fans of A-Rod’s, it only stands to reason that we would want to defend him and want to see him treated and talked about with respect by his current and former teammates and/or coaches. Just like those in the media and fanbase who are big fans of Torre’s are vehement about defending him and demanding that he be treated with respect. I don’t see how that makes either side unintelligent!

  440. Jeff NJ January 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    Hey folks, let’s not sweat it, the Yankees are winning the championship this year, the curse is over, George Bush is out of the white house. Mark my words, or don’t, I’ll probably repeat them 100 times this year.

  441. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    “Hey Jen, is Moose’s wife attractive? Is Moose as appealing in person as he is in his pictures? I always thought of him as a real handsome guy!”

    ————————————-

    Trish…. I insist you stop with this type of sexist talk! There are many gentlemen here who must be offended. Is that all you girls can think about? Beefcake? (Disgusting!)

    I, for one, do not come to this blog just to be objectified by the women here. Yeah Doreen and Mel… you too.

  442. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    “Hey Jen, is Moose’s wife attractive? Is Moose as appealing in person as he is in his pictures? I always thought of him as a real handsome guy!”

    ————————————-

    Trish…. I insist you stop with this type of sexist talk! There are many gentlemen here who must be offended. Is that all you girls can think about? Beefcake? (Disgusting!)

    I, for one, do not come to this blog just to be objectified by the women here. Yeah Doreen and Mel… you too.

  443. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Thanks, Trisha.

    I’m sick of winter, snow and cold and so ready for spring training to start.

  444. Pauly January 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Torre’s scheduled to appear on Letterman on February 3. Perhaps it would be wise to withhold judgment until he has a chance to explain himself? Maybe Verducci messed up and printed some things that were suppose to be off the record, or maybe it’s all just a bunch of rumors?

  445. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Let’s wait for the book to come out first. How do we know that it wasn’t Tom Verducci editorializing-he did have unfettered access to the Yankee clubhouse while Arod was in a huge slump. SI may not let “unnamed sources” in their rag, but the books publishers may…

  446. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    “Hey folks, let’s not sweat it, the Yankees are winning the championship this year, the curse is over, George Bush is out of the white house. Mark my words, or don’t, I’ll probably repeat them 100 times this year.”

    I am happy to mark your words!

    Old(but wise)YanksFan, hey I didn’t mean to sound sexist. Lots of comments were made here about Teixeira’s wife. I kind of thought it was a little sexist but then thought it’s just part of human nature. I hope you are kidding but if not I apologize because I was just being curious rather than sexist. As much as I loved Moose as a pitcher I did always think he was handsome.

  447. m January 25th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Old Fan,

    Hey! Nady and Giambi (lol) haven’t complained yet.

  448. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    It should ask automatically for the password once you click the link.

  449. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    From Amazon.com:
    Scrupulously researched and elegantly written, “Joe DiMaggio: The Hero’s Life” is filled with stories and reminiscences, both on and off the field, from others–not surprisingly, DiMaggio offered no cooperation–that both illumine the man and, more fascinatingly, explain our very need for him.

    In a stunning feat of meticulous reportage, Pulitzer Prize winner Richard Ben Cramer ultimately puts to rest the “Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?” question with iconoclastic bravura. In Cramer’s evaluation, the hero America held onto so desperately for so long was really a creation of a nation’s communal imagination. The Joe DiMaggio that America tried so hard to believe in was never really here at all.

    There was, of course, a Joe DiMaggio, and he had a splendid career in Yankee pinstripes–once hitting safely in an unimaginable 56 consecutive games–and a troubled marriage with Marilyn Monroe, each augmenting the other in our national mythology. But myths tend to be skin-deep, and Cramer’s biography thrives in an internal geography well below the surface. The map he charts is of a cold, small, often nasty, uncaring, resentful, self-centered man, a man of public grace and private misery who broke friendships, shunned family, and chased money with the same focused energies he once harnessed to run down fly balls. It’s not a pretty picture.

    Makes ARod sound pretty nice… doesn’t it?

  450. Pauly January 25th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    I’m with Willoughby on this one…I don’t see the Yanks winning one while Alex is still around. Obviously I hope I’m wrong, but until proven otherwise, he’s incapable of performing in the post season after the 2004 collapse.

  451. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Yikes…. what’s with the strike-thrus?

  452. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    SI’s Verducci: New book about Yankees, not just Joe Torre:

    Joe Torre unveiled some Yankees’ unflattering term for Alex Rodriguez, according to news accounts on the new book “The Yankee Years.”
    AP

    SI.com spoke with Sports Illustrated senior writer Tom Verducci on Sunday about his soon-to-be released new book, co-authored with Los Angeles Dodgers manager Joe Torre, called The Yankee Years. The book is published by Doubleday and will be released on February 3.

    SI.com: Two New York newspapers are reporting that Joe Torre rips Alex Rodriguez and George Steinbrenner in the book, and that Brian Cashman was not as supportive of Torre returning as Yankees manager after the 2007 season as was previously believed. What can you tell us about these reports?

    Verducci: I think it’s important to understand context here. The book is not a first-person book by Joe Torre, it’s a third-person narrative based on 12 years of knowing the Yankees and it’s about the changes in the game in that period. Seems to me the New York Post assigned this third-person book entirely to Joe Torre and that’s not the case. In fact, if people saw that Post story they probably noticed there are no quotes from Joe Torre in it. Joe Torre doe not rip anybody in the book. The book really needs to be read in context.

    Anybody who knows Joe, especially during his time in New York, knows he’s a very honest man and he is very honest in the pages of this book. People also know Joe Torre doesn’t go around ripping people and he doesn’t do that in the pages of this book. There is a lot of information in this book over a tremendous period of baseball history. It’s been reported out by me as well as informed by Torre’s own insights into that period.”

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  453. Ariel January 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Anything for a buck!!! That’s the name of the game and Joe T. is no exception. Some things are better left for the sanctity of the clubhouse but the true character of an individual emerges in circumstances such as this.

    On the other hand, let’s wait to see what Joe really says, not simply the hook of a pre-release promotion geared to you and I lining up to buy. The hook obviously worked as I’ve pre-ordered on Amazon.

  454. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Well Pauly and Tom I’ll say this. If Torre DID write the things he is alleged to have written, we’ve certainly aired our views on it already! If it turns out to be nothing more than a benign rendition of his days in NY without any spiteful language or airing things that really should have stayed in house, I will have no difficulty in saying I was wrong to have believed the reviews and I will publicly apologize for having gotten in wrong.

    We here responded to what we read from the promotional material. (By the way, I will be stunned if the promotional stuff was incorrect.)

  455. m January 25th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Like I said, when Torre makes his statement saying that the rumored quotes are patently untrue, I will retract what I said. Which really isn’t much. I don’t think I’ve bashed Torre at all. Just rather disappointed more than anything.

    He always preached the keeping in the clubhouse. Was that to shield himself from criticisms in the later years?

  456. Objectify Me. PLEASE! January 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    I was kidding…. fercryingoutloud.

  457. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    And to end the Joba to the pen debate once and for all. Mussina said he should start!!!

  458. Pauly January 25th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    All you need to know about the NY Post is that they publish Bill O’Reilly. ‘Nuf said.

  459. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Peter,

    Have you read the book? If not, why did you post about it? Oh right, I know: It was an opportunity to expound, AGAIN, on how no one likes ARod, promote St. Joe’s new book, drive hits on your blog, AND, most importantly, it gave you another opportunity to rip your nitwits/readers who disagree with you for commenting on the subject you presented to them. Win, win scenario for you.

    Say what you want about ARod, but the man has never ripped Torre publicly. It was clear from the very beginning that Torre hated Alex, but ARod never once badmouthed Torre publicly. He said all the right things when Torre batted him sixth, then eighth, never called him out for selling him out to Verducci in the SI article, and gushed about how happy it made him when Torre came to his Labor Day party. I know Peter will absolutely refuse to see this, but it’s clear to me which one of the two has displayed more class over years.

  460. m January 25th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    So it’s a Verducci book? If I was co-authoring with him, I’d want final edit approval.

  461. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    Trisha, I’m not disparaging your opinion. You’re entitled to it and if Torre did say these things then yes, he’s an idiot.

  462. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Trish – I do believe you already owe Torre an apology.
    (But please… no comments on his ‘primative’ good looks.)

  463. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Joe Dimaggio
    “A Heroes Life”
    By Richard Ben Cramer

    Dimaggio was quirky yes, screwed up no. He was a great teammate and perfectionist. He studied the game & prepared himself. He was a leader, not a follower.

  464. Buddha January 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Tom

    How dare you inpart truth and information and ruin all this hate and anger. The nerve.

  465. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    “There is a lot of information in this book over a tremendous period of baseball history. It’s been reported out by me as well as informed by Torre’s own insights into that period.”

    Not to sound terribly skeptical, but this reminds me of the book on Princess Diana written by Andrew Morton. It was compiled from a lot of reports gathered by Morton from people who knew Diana. In the end we found out that Diana herself had provided all of the information but didn’t want it to be known. It was all on tape, in Diana’s words.

    Ho hum.

    Angel, what do you think about the timing of this book? Right before pitchers and catchers report? Hey I guess there wasn’t any negative crap going on in Yankee camp right now so this was a good way to provide distraction and maybe make sure that Joe Girardi has dissension in the clubhouse or at least nonstop press questions.

    Well done Joe and Tom.

    Oh I know – everything about this is pure and innocent.

  466. Adam January 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    I am personally interested in this book. Most fans seem to hold their team to the highest. As a Yankee fan, I was raised to think that “Yankees” and “class” always go together. However, sadly that has not always been the case. There was nothing classy about how the Yanks treated Joe toward the end. While some of you may claim this book to be “unnecessary,” I doubt that it’s filled with lies. I’m excited to see things from Joe’s point of view.

  467. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Joe is and always has been about Joe.That’s why he never had a problem abusing pitchers to the point of ruined careers as long as his career was advancing.Torre knew how to massage the ego of the press and that’s how he became Saint Joe.The man would have been a natural in Tammany Hall or,for that matter,in present day Chicago.What a phony.

  468. Buddha January 25th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    Anger is a deluded mind that focuses on an animate or inanimate object, feels it to be unattractive, exaggerates its bad qualities, and wishes to harm it.

    Trish?

  469. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    well…this nitwit is confused….If you don’t want us to comment on the topic that is one of the the headings for the blog until we read the book…then why put it up at the top of the blog when the book isn’t out yet?

  470. Pauly January 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Trisha, Girardi was already going to face tension in the clubhouse. C’mon, you can’t put everything that’s wrong with the team on Torre.

    Bobmac, I’m a little curious…exactly whose career did Joe Torre ruin?

  471. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    “I was kidding…. fercryingoutloud.”

    :lol:

    “Trish – I do believe you already owe Torre an apology.”
    Now now, this is not to disparage your opinion but I think that is very premature. I still don’t trust the guy nor his “need” to write a book within one year of going to another team with bitterness in his heart. I’ve heard of people writing memoirs but this is really pushing the envelope!!!

    “(But please… no comments on his ‘primative’ good looks.)”

    HA HA HA HA HA!!! I must admit I always thought that he was scary looking. The guy is a classic example of sports figures scoring trophy wives.

    :D

  472. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Well we all know Torre was hurt by the Yanks offer but to totally diss his former players and employer is ridiculous. All I can say to Joe is thanks for the memories and I hope we see you in October.

  473. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    “So it’s a Verducci book? If I was co-authoring with him, I’d want final edit approval.”

    When your name is on something you better make sure you have some control. Its like people reminding players they are responsible for their agents’ actions.

  474. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    I heart Clare.

  475. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    “Anger is a deluded mind that focuses on an animate or inanimate object, feels it to be unattractive, exaggerates its bad qualities, and wishes to harm it.”

    Yeah that pretty much sums up Torre’s need to write his memoirs well before memoirs are in order. Thanks for the definition.

    And I’m always impressed with the obvious insecurity that presents itself as intelligence/bravado when a poster feels the need to PERSONALLY criticize another poster because he disagrees with that poster’s premise.

    Well done BUDDHA.

  476. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Wow! You folks are starting to sound like Boston fans! They eat their own! Am I on the right board?

    Joe Torre wasn’t a saint because he smoozed the press! H e didn’t ruin pitcher’s careers, that was Girardi! (Go look at Mariner young pitchers he screwed up.) Torre is an honest man and he was respected for winning and facing his critics when he lost. No one is perfect! Even Dimaggio wasn’t. He was stable & consistent.

  477. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    “Say what you want about ARod, but the man has never ripped Torre publicly.”

    He doesn’t rip nitwit reporters who have a pack mentality either. I’ve come to accept that too many slime reporters (and yes, there are some) can’t even think for themselves.

    And I love the ones who have their own “keep it in the pants” issues that criticize A-Rod and other athletes the loudest.

  478. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    People on this blog started talking about the Torre situation well before Peter posted a single word about the book. For one it is his blog and he can do really whatever he wants to do. We dont have to come on here if we dont feel like it. It was a big topic today on HIS BLOG so why wouldnt he throw in his 2 cents.

  479. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    “Trisha, Girardi was already going to face tension in the clubhouse. C’mon, you can’t put everything that’s wrong with the team on Torre.”

    Pauly, I’m not putting anything that’s wrong with the team on Torre. I’m just saying that his book certainly isn’t going to help keep the NY press at bay in terms of hounding the Yankees with extracurricular crap!

  480. Buddha January 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    “Because it is based on an exaggeration, anger is an unrealistic mind;

    anger is also an extremely destructive mind that serves no useful purpose whatsoever.”

  481. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Wow RayVT… you KNEW DiMaggio? Cool!
    From Amazon.com, From AudioFile:

    Joltin’ Joe had charisma before America knew the word. He often played injured, but he always played smart. He kept his head up and his mouth shut. In Yankee Stadium he was a God. Off the field, he was made of clay. “What’s the point of being a Sicilian if you’re not convinced the world will do you dirt in the end?” The Clipper was cheap. The Clipper was unforgiving. When he was married to Marilyn Monroe, he hit her. Richard Ben Cramer has six hours to read a book he spent five years writing. He makes every phrase sound as if his own life depended on it. This is a bravura performance, a balanced but a passionate book. B.H.C. © AudioFile 2001, Portland, Maine– Copyright © AudioFile, Portland, Maine –This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

  482. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    “No one is perfect!”

    That seems to be the acceptance only “true” Yankees get.

    Pete can say whatever he wants Donnie Baseball. Its one thing to disagree with someone’s opinion but its another when someone acts as if you can’t have the opinion you have because it doesn’t line up with their own. Calling people sheep, unintelligent and nitwits…some people can dish but can’t take.

  483. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    ….For one it is his blog and he can do really whatever he wants to do. We dont have to come on here if we dont feel like it. It was a big topic today on HIS BLOG so why wouldnt he throw in his 2 cents….

    I have no problem with him throwing in his 2 cents or 5 dollars for that matter…I do have a problem with him calling people who present a different viewpoint “nitwits” and then saying we shouldn’t talk about it until we have read the book,when the book isn’t out…. when he has posted it as a topic and he talked about it himself

  484. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    “H e didn’t ruin pitcher’s careers, that was Girardi!”

    Ray now on this one I will give you a fight. Girardi may have (if he did) but Torre was notorious for killing bullpen arms, putting aside relievers who weren’t his favorites, and doing in starting pitchers in the process since he wasn’t known for putting our reliable bullpens and so starters had to really push to get innings in so as not to tax and ineffective (read: Torre-driven) pen.

    While this may overstate the case by inches, I think you know the general premise to which I refer. It isn’t a well-kept secret.

  485. Ogie Oglethorpe January 25th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    Pete,

    This is from the Amazon.com descripion of the book:

    Here, for the first time, Joe Torre and Tom Verducci take us inside the dugout, the clubhouse, and the front office in a revelatory narrative that shows what it really took to keep the Yankees on top of the baseball world. The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game. Constant meddling from Yankee executives, many of whom were jealous of Torre’s popularity. The tension that developed between the old guard and the free agents brought in by management. The impact of revenue-sharing and new scouting techniques, which allowed other teams to challenge the Yankees’ dominance. The players who couldn’t resist the after-hours temptations of the Big Apple. The joys of managing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, and the challenges of managing Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi. Torre’s last year, when constant ultimatums from the front office, devastating injuries, and a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved.

    I think “95 percent positive” may be a little generous. This is gonna be a story–right into Tampa.

  486. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    I’m not sure that anything too much can be read into the timing of it, as I’ll bet that book has been in the works for ages. Its not like they haven’t collaborated before either, there is an established working relationship and has been for quite a while, even while he was employed by the Yankees.

    I really found the “SWF” reference rather distasteful though, but rather “Verdduci” in it use.

    As far as I know, A-Rod hasn’t killed puppies, Derek Jeter or anyone else (yet!).

  487. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    I understand what your saying but what Clare said to Peter is on the same level then, So its ok for people on here to call Peter out but he cant call people out?? Its his blog Im not saying its ok to call people names but It goes on here all day long. So you cant just pick out one guy

  488. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Publishers want the book to get as much press as posible. The start of ST is a great time for the book to come out-baseball will be on peoples minds…

  489. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    Pauly,off the top of my head-Sturtze,Karsay,Villone and Proctor.

  490. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    Pete’s the only blogger that likes to rip the bloggees (or whatever you want to call us). We don’t worship at the altar of St. Joe and we don’t take it at his word that A-Rod has absolutely no friends in baseball; we don’t believe that A-Rod is solely to blame for no WS in the last several years and we don’t think his “can’t you take my sarcasm for humor” is funny. Oddly, since there are far fewer A-Rod supporters than haters, it seems that the former are not sheep, but the latter are.

  491. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

    Err “Verducci” I meant.

    I suppose it is interesting that its come out at the same time as the new Yankee Stadium, but I’d guess that that is just coincidental.

  492. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    ….So its ok for people on here to call Peter out but he cant call people out??…

    Exactly right…it is not “Ok” for anyone to “call anyone out” but better behavior is expected from Peter as a respected journalist and owner of the blog…just like it is from Joe Torre…who was a respected manager with a reputation for being the epitome of class…that is at the heart of this reaction….as I said in response to a previous post from Peter…comparing Wells to Torre doesn’t make sense for a whole host of reasons

  493. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    He posted after everyone was talking about it. I am one who is on the side that Torre shouldnt have done it and I disagree with Peter I am no nitwit, but Peter must have some found respect for Joe. Where I have lost that, I dont feel the Yankees should honor him ever. Maybe Peter was harsh in his judgement of words

  494. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    “Joe Torre wasn’t a saint because he smoozed the press! H e didn’t ruin pitcher’s careers, that was Girardi!”

    Please be kidding. Joe Girardi’s greatest strength was managing the bullpen and keeping guys fresh. Joe Torre single handedly destroyed Scott Proctor and a slew of others during his reign. Yes Joe T has the rings but Girardi was a far better manager of arms than Torre.

  495. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    Old (but wise) Yanks Fan -

    I am going to order that book. What I had surmised about Joe D, but won’t ever say because he is a Yankee legend. Question: We know Joe DiMaggio was not a follower but – was he a leader or lone wolf?

    Trish –

    I always thought Mussina was a handsome guy, myself. OYF, I don’t care if that’s sexist!!! :)

    Jennifer -

    So, now Moose thinks Joba should start, huh? Funny, last season, when he knew he needed relief pitchers to back him up, didn’t he say Joba should be in the pen????? Sure, now, that it’s nothing to him, he can give an unbiased opinion. :lol:

  496. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    “I understand what your saying but what Clare said to Peter is on the same level then, So its ok for people on here to call Peter out but he cant call people out??”

    He often calls people out. Yes, its his blog – but its not as if he doesn’t call anyone out when he doesn’t agree with them. Occasionally, its been quite heated when he’s done so.

  497. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Donnie Baseball23 maybe it’s not fair but I hold Pete to a higher standard because he is a reporter and supposedly has a blog for the good of Yankee fans and to keep them informed. I don’t like it when anybody calls anyone else names such as moron, idiot, calls them delusional, or any other such thing. I think it is a negative statement on the person calling the names and really speaks to bullying, a superiority complex, or other such negative things that have no place here. When Pete does it to me it is even worse for the reasons I have mentioned and also because most posters seem to tap-dance triple time in the things they say to Pete where they are nowhere as careful in what they say to others. So Pete can have a free-for-all in being really depracating when people disagree with him.

    Just my opinion.

  498. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    ” I’m a Yankee fan and if someone rips the organization, then I take exception.”

    mel-

    your sense of loyalty is admiral, but what if the organization is operating on principles that are very un -yankee like ?

    i haven’t seen the new power structure win anything. maybe it deserves a few rips or two.

  499. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    bobmac
    January 25th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
    Pauly,off the top of my head-Sturtze,Karsay,Villone and Proctor

    LOL! Proctor went to the Dodgers. Karsay was injured before Torre. Villone is still pitching. Sturtze overcame injuries from Tampa days to pitch. bobmac, you are funny!

    Girardi: (Link) http://sports.outsidethebeltwa.....cond-look/

    I looked at Pitcher Abuse Points (PAP) in 2006 (for starters over 100 ip) – Florida’s starters accumulated a total of over 147,000 abuse points, whereas Yankee starters reached just under 48,000. This appears to be a huge difference until you realize Florida had six pitchers qualify while the Yanks had just four. A better way to equalize the measuring stick is to take the average PAP per pitcher: for Florida it was about 25,000 while the Yanks had about 12,000. So the gap isn’t quite as big as it seemed but there’s still a gap.

    Bringing young arms along following the so-called “Rule of 30? is a prudent strategy. Expecting a young pitcher to jump from 120 college innings pitched to 180 innings pitched without suffering fatigue or injury is foolhardy. So is expecting a pitcher to jump from 140 minor league IP to 200 major league IP, without consequence. The “Rule of 30? offers a conservative strategy of ramping up a young pitcher’s inning tally by 30 inning increments from year to year. Let’s compare inning totals for those five Marlin starters both at the major and minor league level for 2005-2007. The middle column is when Girardi was manager and these totals include both major and minor league innings for all three years.

    Sanchez 136, 200.3, 30
    Nolasco 161.7, 140, 55
    Johnson 152, 169.3, 36.3
    Olsen 100.7, 186.7, 176.7
    Willis 236.3, 223.3, 205.3

    Sanchez was definitely over extended in 2006, and with the concerns about injury with his arm to begin with, that abuse may be the difference between him being a valuable pitcher for the next ten years and him being a flame out. You hope that is not the case.

    Nolasco’s overuse was not from the Marlins, at least not in 2006, but more likely from the Cubs, whose track record of developing young arms is spotty at best (negligent at worst). His injury last year is more than likely the result of consistent overuse, rather than a burst of abuse.

    Johnson’s injury this past season may not be the result of the number of PAP^3 he took in 2006 as a 22 year old. But it is hard to argue with a young arm breaking down after having stretches like this one in 06: 101, 109, 105, 94, 110, 103, 116, 109, 112, 105 over ten starts. Interestingly, he had an average of 5 days of rest between those starts. So even though he was effectively getting extra rest, that did not mitigate the strain of 100+ pitch outings. He gave up 14 earned runs (20 runs overall) in that ten game stretch, but his last 12 starts allowed 33 earned runs and 34 overall runs. His ERA climbed from 2.21 to 3.10. Got tired? Yep. And when a young arm is tired, that’s when it is most likely to strain or tear from overuse.

    Those 108,656 PAP^3 for Willis, combined with his participation in the World Baseball Classic, go a long way to explaining the Willis’ decline of the last two seasons. Girardi leaned on Willis, because as the lone survivor of the purge, he was the de facto ace. A caveat, McKeon had abused Willis the previous year as well, so Girardi was following team precedent. Regardless, Dontrelle was still a young pitcher whose arm was nearing critical usage at a young age. How much he comes back is anyone’s guess. An statistically minded observer of baseball suggested Livan Hernandez when I posed the question to him.

    Olsen’s 2007 inconsistency seems likely the result of injury due to double abuse, exceeding the normal rule of thirty increase of innings, and the second most PAP^3 among the 25 and under crowd. It seems unlikely to me that he does not make it through the 2008 season without a serious breakdown.

  500. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Im not condoning what he said or says, Im saying hes opinion is his just like our’s in the fact that he doesnt think its a big deal bout the whole Torre situation. Thats my point he has the right to comment on that I disagree with him and think its a big deal, not to this team but the face that Torre would do say things about the YANKEES who did so much for him and his family and also his career.

  501. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Bob Klapisch’s latest takes a look at Joe Girardi’s managerial tenure and discusses how he will fare in 2009. Girardi’s cold demeanor during and after losses was markedly different from Joe Torre’s and, in the end, it seemed to bother his players enough to force Girardi into tweaking his approach towards the end of the season (and, hopefull, for Girardi’s sake, into next season). He’ll be under Willie Randolph-like pressure to succeed with 2 new stud pitchers and Klapisch wonders if he’ll break under the added weight of a Manny Ramirez signing.

  502. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I don’t care if he “calls people out”; whatever that means. But he can’t expect much respect when he’s name calling like a petulant child.

    Some of us don’t feel the need to rip of every guy who isn’t a “real” Yankee while giving all the “real” Yankees a free pass. I make judgments on people’s actions and if I think its wrong I think its wrong regardless of what they did nine years ago.

    I think its wrong to cheat on your wife, I think its wrong to call out players’ feelings about their current teammate which opens them up to questions and I think its wrong to not pay your taxes. And it doesn’t matter to me who did and if they have won a championship or not.

  503. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Hey guys if you want to come rip torre, i don’t mind at all. We can have a discussion about this over on my blog Yanks and More, please come visit and see what you think and I will gladly read the comments about Torre and respond to them.

  504. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    Jennifer

    So I guess no chance on Moose changing his mind? What did you end up getting him to sign?

  505. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    RayVTNC -

    Wait – the Yankees signed Manny? When did this happen????

  506. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    **ST in 20 days!** This Torre stuff is just a distraction I can’t wait for Yankees baseball!

  507. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Donnie,

    I didn’t call Peter a “nitwit” “sheep” or “unintelligent,” so I don’t think my comment was on the same level as Peter’s comments just in this thread about people who disagree with him. He’s said much worse things in prior threads.

  508. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Doreen

    LOL! Kaplich stated if the Yankees signed Manny it would put Girardi over the edge!

  509. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    “LOL! Kaplich stated if the Yankees signed Manny it would put Girardi over the edge!”

    Not to mention Theo and John Henry.

  510. Adam January 25th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Everyone on here always scold Sox fans for their lack of loyalty toward their players. How are you guys any different? Back in the late 90s, every Yankee fan worshipped Joe. Fast forward a decade and everyone has turned against him. The Yankee organization treated him w/o an ounce of respect or class at the end and deliberately (sry on the spelling) ignored him at the Yankee Stadium celebrations.

    He left NY because the FO believed he need extra encouragement to win in October. He had the right to be insulted after leading the Yanks to the post-season for over a decade. This season, we failed to make the play-offs while Joe ended up managing in the NLCS. To me, this was not a big suprise.

    If you don’t like the fact that he wrote a book, then don’t read it.

  511. m January 25th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    randy l,

    I coulda been an “admiral”, too. :)

  512. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    “H e didn’t ruin pitcher’s careers, that was Girardi! (Go look at Mariner young pitchers he screwed up.) ”

    Why are we supposed to take anything you say seriously when you’re apparently not even aware that it was actually the Marlins, not the Mariners, who Girardi managed?

    And which of their pitchers exactly did he ruin? As far as I remember he helped Olsen a lot and Sanchez had known health problems BEFORE he came to the Marlins, that’s why the Red Sux were willing to throw him in with Hanley. And if you didn’t watch D-Train his whole career and know from day 1 that he was going to flame out at a young age, then I don’t know what to tell you cause it was pretty obvious.

    “Torre is an honest man and he was respected for winning and facing his critics when he lost.”

    Really? So he took responsibility in 2007 for some of his failures that might have led the Yankees to not want to re-sign him for a long period of time? Oh wait, he didn’t, he whined about “insults.”

    Still waiting for him to face up to hanging Joba out to dry in the 2007 ALDS too, never heard any accountability for that reprehensible act.

  513. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Tarheelyank

    Yes! It would be lovely!

  514. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    For anyone who is daring to compare Girardi and Torre’s records. Girardi has had exactly two years managing teams. His first year as a manager he was manager of the year. He almost managed to get the Yankees into the postseason this year despite having a rotation that was either injured or underachieving!

    In Torre’s first two years as a manager he went 49-68 and 66-96. And if you don’t want to consider Torre’s first year since he was a player-manager, let’s go to his third year. His record was 63-99. Girardi’s first two years were 78-84 and 89-73.

    So get off this ridiculous Torre-Girardi comparison please!

  515. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    From Scott Olsen’s Wikipedia page:

    “During the 2006 season with the Florida Marlins, Olsen went 12-10 with a 4.04 ERA. With his 10+ wins and the 10+ wins of his fellow rookies Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez, the 2006 Marlins became the first team in Major League Baseball history with four rookie pitchers with ten or more wins in one season.”

    Girardi sucks!!! What an awful manager! :roll:

    Oh and yeah, he also doesn’t know how to handle his players…he certainly didn’t keep Olsen and Willis out of trouble in 2006 or anything…both got arrested within the next year, hmmm!

  516. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    if you dont think its on the same level Im sorry for comparing the two you didnt call him names I agree you only took cheap shots at him. I was not talking about him calling peoples names I was saying that its ok for him to make statements about the Torre situation.

  517. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    I don’t think ‘EVERYONE’ has turned against Joe Torre. I think many of us are taken aback at the tone of this book, from what we can surmise. As I stated before, he has every right to write his memoirs – and I’m sure he as a compelling story to tell. I question, but understand from a money-making point of view, the timing of the book.

    But I think that time is forgiving. When Ball Four was written, Jim Bouton was not a beloved person in baseball. But years later, his book is appreciated. It remains to be seen (a) what exactly Torre’s book is, and (b) how it will be viewed in the rear-view mirror of passing time.

    I think many people felt a love and loyalty toward Torre, and respected him immensely as many of us realized that he had indeed “taken the high road” during his tenure as Yankee manager. It’s a little jarring to think that perhaps it wasn’t so much taking the high road as it might have simply been a matter of not biting the hand that feeds, you know? Perhaps some of us (and I’m not sure where I’ll fit in until I read the book) feel we may have been duped?

  518. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    BBB

    I can’t believe I typed Mariners! LOL! My appologies!

  519. Anonymous January 25th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    Stay classy joe.

  520. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    Probably just speculation, Doreen – I don’t see the article on the Bergen Record website, though, so I can’t check it out. I don’t think Bob has to worry about Joe and Manny – it’s not happening.

    Girardi is a good man and a smart man. I don’t think it’s fair for the Yankee players to expect him to be Father Joe (Girardi) like Joe Torre was – but I will say that Joe G. can’t have a football-like mentality, where every game is a war. That was George’s MO – every game for him was a must win and, as a result, he caused great instability in the organization with his various hirings and firings. Girardi has to create an environment where the players are going to thrive, but I don’t know why he has to be warm and fuzzy.

  521. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    Proctor is looking for a job,Torre acknowledged running Villone and Sturtze into the ground.He always gives the guy a job the next year which is most kind.You can wheel out all the BP stats you want but everyone knows if a guy is hot he’ll wheel him out day after day.Where’s Karsay pitching?Your funny.

  522. Bo knows January 25th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    It’s a little late for me to lose respect for Joe Torre as a manager. That happened in 04.

    I was adamant about it after he used an already overworked Gordon in Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS with a 9 run lead

    What about using a fresh Rivera in game 4 for a 2 inning save?

    Rivera ran out of gas in the second innings and the rest was pathetic handling of the team. He paniced

  523. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Actually, Torre is on record saying he regrets not taking action during the midges game in Cleveland. I believe in the interview right after he left the Yankees he was asked about any regrets, and that was one of them – or something he would do differently.

  524. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    BBB,

    I’m totally with you generally, but I did want to note that the one thing Torre did take responsibility for was the midges game. I don’t have a link, but he did mention that he regretted leaving Joba out there.

  525. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Ray: My bad too, before I read your other post about the pitcher abuse points I thought you might have actually thought it was the Mariners!

    Also, not gonna go over the abuse points stuff point by point, but having read it, it does seem like a lot of those pitchers’ troubles can be attributed either to pre-existing conditions or previous managers or coaches they had. As far as Olsen struggling in 2007, maybe it is because he spent the whole season drunk? He’s always had discipline/behavior problems but didn’t have any under Girardi.

  526. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    I do have to say I did hear Torre say he had regrets about not taking Joba out of the midges game.

    But I never heard him say boo about the atrocity in postseason 2006 and his ridiculous managing, allowing Sheffield to bulldoze his way into the games.

  527. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    NBC sports just reported that Torre’s book is not a tell all book and that Verducci said the quotes we’ve all been speaking about were quoted out of context.

    How bout that? Now we all have to buy and read the book to know for sure. Anyone know how to get to Yogi’s Museum? See you at the book signing. How much is the book anyway?

  528. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Betsy,

    I wish there was a sarcasm emoticon! :)

    No way they sign Manny. No way. (I hope!)

    Trisha -

    I was just going to post something about the ridiculousness (?) of comparing Joe G to Joe T. But it seems no one can discuss one with making a comparison to the other. All I can say is, Donny Mattingly should be thanking is lucky stars that he was not chosen to be the “one to follow” Joe T. Blessing in disguise, I say.

  529. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    “Stay classy joe.”

    :D

  530. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Doreen & Clare: My bad about the midge misstatement…I must have still been so enraged at the time that I blocked it out, haha. Good on Torre for taking responsibility for that.

  531. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Doreen… I haven’t read any books on Joe D., but have seen some articles and discussions. The reason this particular book is not a ‘blockbuster revelation’ is because, frankly, a lot of people know Joe D. was an @sshole (and I say this with all due respect). What this book seems to get into, is the ‘distance’ between his on-field, baseball hero persona, and the real man off-the-field.

    I believe within the right circles, it is well known that Joe was a control freak and EXTREMELY cheap.

    Contrast this to Mantle, who while he was a bit of a womanizer and a true alcoholic, was a very sweet man, and absolutely loved, as a person, by everyone who knew him. There were some stories on this blog a few days ago about the Mick, and how he went out of his way to get people autographs.

    The Babe was also a womanizer, heavy drinker, and a serious eater of pork products. I guess it’s OK for our heros to be imperfect. Actually, I myself, like to know they’re human. And then when you find someone like Murcer, who honestly just seemed like a real mensch…. well, it only makes it better and more rare.

    I believe ARod is a very decent person. He has great insecurities that come from being abandoned by his father at an early age. This is something that is almost impossible to get totally over… it goes so deep.

    ARod attracts hate because a lot of people need to hate. Since ARod has his foot in his mouth so often, he is an easy target. Meanwhile, Jeter, who is on a quest to leave his seed, worldwide, in as many beautiful starletts as possible, get a total pass… even from women.

  532. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    I have no desire to read the book. Last I looked that’s my right. But I will get to read endless quotes and summaries once the book is out. And that will be good enough for me because I will read stuff from reporters without any axe to grind in any direction (yes, they are out there).

    I still find it quite hard to believe that Torre didn’t feed Verducci hard-core information. After all, he has done that in the past and trashed players. And that’s when he was still managing the Yankees.

    Nah, those of you who revere Torre can keep him.

  533. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    It doesn’t matter if its a tell-all. LOL. If someone wrote a book about how smart, funny and pretty I was and then in one sentence said I kicked homeless people I wouldn’t be happy with that one statement.

  534. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    BBB

    It is hard to say what causes anything. Girardi was credited with being great with young pitchers but he is far from it. All players are different, but younger pitchers are more likely to need coaxing & not a wrath of victimizations from Girardi. Billy Martin was the same way with young pitchers only he had success in short spurts but he failed long term because of his controlling nature as well. Girardi is in over his head. Give him 5 yrs somewhere else & he may be ready to be the Yankees Manager.

  535. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Old (but wise Yankee fan), I’ve heard a bunch of personal stories that make Mantle out to be a jerk, but I would assume no one wants to think that because he was their childhood hero. I know my father encountered him on a plane once and Mantle wasn’t too friendly – that said, I would never judge him off of that one time, especially as I wasn’t there.

  536. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    “Old (but wise Yankee fan), I’ve heard a bunch of personal stories that make Mantle out to be a jerk, but I would assume no one wants to think that because he was their childhood hero. I know my father encountered him on a plane once and Mantle wasn’t too friendly – that said, I would never judge him off of that one time, especially as I wasn’t there.”

    Nice way to think about people Betsy. Genuinely good people mess up all the time.

  537. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    “I never heard him say boo about the atrocity in postseason 2006 and his ridiculous managing, allowing Sheffield to bulldoze his way into the games.”

    The fact that Torre practically put his job on the line for Sheffield (unwisely so, I might add) is one of the reasons I was so enraged when Sheffield came out with that garbage inflammatory rag of a “book” in the summer of ’07 that accused Torre of not having his back. I was happy to get the chance to be part of showing Torre Yankee fans were behind him on that at a Yankees/Tigers game later that summer, chanting his name every time Sheffield came up to bat. But now I kind of feel like a fool for wasting my time since Torre basically turned around and made the same accusations against Cashman that Sheffield made against him (well, the part about not supporting him anyway, obviously that dirtbag Sheffield spewed far worse and more offensive lies on top of that)

  538. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Joe Torre should thank the Steinbrenners for putting together an all-star rotation virtually every season that he was manager. 3 straight one and outs in the playoffs is not just a minor problem it was a stigma associated with the team and Torre could not reverse what 2004 did to the teams confidence.

  539. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    I also wanted to add, Old (but wise) YanksFan, that I completely agree about A-Rod.

  540. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Verducce said the quotes were taken out of context, not that they were incorrect.

    In what context would the ARod’s teammates called him AFraud quote be acceptable? None. Even if it was Verducci’s statement, not Torre’s, it’s still not acceptable – mainly for the reasons stated above. Quoting someone’s else’s criticism is weak, and publicizing private clubhouse remarks is cheap.

    And the SWF remark is worse. It’s a catchy rephrase of the same old tired attacks – that ARod is a headcase, and that he’s not manly enough for some writers. Most of the amateur psychoanlysis started after ARod publicized the fact that he’s had therapy (which he did in conjunction with giving money for kids’ mental health). This is just old-fashioned prejudice against mental health care.

    And any writer who implies anything about ARod’s masculinity (such as mocking his attire, his alleged girlfriends, or comparing him to a single white female), is, IMO, revealing more about their own issues than ARod’s.

  541. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    Is this Torre’s book or is it Verducci’s book? We all know that when sportsfigures write books they often use real writers since a lot of them probably can’t even write entire sentences. Obviously this is about Torre’s tenure with the Yankees. It isn’t about the Yankee era before Torre was there. This is Torre’s story.

    Verducci will take the heat for anything Torre told him that he doesn’t want attributed directly to him. What an easy scam.

    Just my opinion. I don’t trust any of it.

  542. GreenBeret7 January 25th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    I’m trying to figure out when Tanyon Sturtz ever had a career. He was a relief pitcher, a starter and a long relief pitcher before he ever joined the Yankees, and, none of them successful. In the 4 or 5 years before prior to joining the Yanks, Quantrall was pitching in 80-90 games a year with 85 innings per. He also said that it wasn’t the two years with the Yanks, it was the 12 years leading up to it. He was a starter for years in Toronto before the years in the Dodger pen. Karsay had 5 arm and elbow surgeries before the Yanks blew a bundle on a multi-year contract for him.

    Other than excerpts from this “book”, I haven’t read it, but, it reads more like Verducci and his normal hack jobs than Torre. Still, I find it strange that Torre didn’t proof this before allowing his name to go on it. I won’t be spending my buck 98 on this rag. My guess is that Verducci’s another rag writer that Rodriguez has told to take a hike because of the BS he’s written. That’s the best thing Rodriguez can do…tell the rag writers to shove it. They’ll write what they want any way. If they can’t get the truth, they’ll invent the truth.

  543. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    bobmac

    A 1st round draft pick of the Toronto Blue Jays in 1990, Karsay was traded to the Athletics along with outfielder José Herrera for Rickey Henderson on July 31, 1993. A starter in his early days with the Athletics, Karsay worked mostly in middle relief and as a set up man from 1998 on, although he also had some notable success as a closer in 2000 with the Indians and 2002 with the Yankees. His career was marred by injuries, causing him to miss the 1995 (elbow surgery), 1996 (Tommy John surgery) and 2003 (shoulder surgery) seasons; in all, he was on the disabled list seven times.[2]

    Karsay announced his retirement on June 18, 2006, the day after pitching two scoreless innings against the Los Angeles Dodgers and getting the win in a 17-inning marathon for the Athletics. He finished his 11-year Major League career with a 32-39 record, 41 saves and a 4.01 ERA in 357 career appearances, including 40 starts.

    Karsay first pitched for the Yankees in 2002. He pitched 88 innings in 2002 in 78 appearances as a closer. Not really abusive. Karsay had a rash of injuries.

  544. dale d January 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    let’s wait and read the book.
    the author saz
    “”Smart people will judge the book upon actually reading it and not reading preliminary reports prior to its publication,” Verducci said. “Once you understand the context of the book you understand the information. It’s not a tell-all book. Anybody who reads it will understand that.””

  545. m January 25th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Is Verducci around the players anymore? I certainly wouldn’t grant him too much of my time. Just exchange some simple pleasantries.

  546. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Verducci did screw A-Rod over really bad with that garbage 2006 SI cover story article “The Lonely Yankee” which came out only a few weeks before the playoffs. From what I remember of that hatchet job, most of it was out and out lies, for example he said Alex’s only friend on the team was some marginal coach, not even one of the team’s main coaches, when everybody knows that he and Mo are good friends. Along with countless other garbage.

    I’m sure Alex hasnt exactly been accessible to or fond of Verducci since then – why should he? So I wouldn’t be surprised if Verducci was a major player in this smear campaign, but I believe that Torre did not like A-Rod either, so it would be reasonable to think that he and Verducci were the perfect duo to write MORE nonsense about the best player in the game.

  547. Old(but wise)YanksFan January 25th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    In the 2006 ALDS, the Yanks won the first game.
    In the next THREE games, they posted a TOTAL line of 6-19-3.
    The team had an ERA of 5.56, with RJ having an ERA of 7.94.
    Looking at these numbers, produced by a combination of 20 players, the only thing I can say is:
    WHAT THE HELL WAS THE MATTER WITH JOE TORRE!!!!!!

  548. m January 25th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Torre went to the relievers who he trusted.

    Girardi and Eiland went to great lengths to put their trust in all the bullpen guys. They built up the confidence by going back to them, even after they screwed up. That way they knew to be ready when called on and not be so afraid that one bad outing would banish them to the doghouse and eventually out of the Bronx.

  549. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    “Still, I find it strange that Torre didn’t proof this before allowing his name to go on it. I won’t be spending my buck 98 on this rag. My guess is that Verducci’s another rag writer that Rodriguez has told to take a hike because of the BS he’s written. That’s the best thing Rodriguez can do…tell the rag writers to shove it. They’ll write what they want any way. If they can’t get the truth, they’ll invent the truth.”

    Wow GB I must say I am pleasantly surprised with this response.

  550. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    I can accept that people are imperfect and, certainly, that nothing is ever black and white in this world – so much grey area, it’s not funny.

    I think I have a warm spot in my heart for ARod because he is somewhat of a misfit, for reasons I won’t go into here.

    OYF, it’s stunning how Jeter’s exploits are applauded. I think he is a terrific ballplayer and a good teammate Ofrom what I can surmise from the outside looking in). Regarding his love life, well, he’s not married, so he is, indeed, free to sow his wild oats. I find it interesting that it is always a starlet, but those are the circles in which he moves. Who am I to judge?

    I find the older I am getting the more frequently I am disappointed by people I had admired. But, then I realize, I never really knew these people at all, and my attitude is more, “c’est la vie.” I’m indignant for about 5 minutes, then I move on. There are no perfect human beings, and if we had to live our lives in the microscope that these people do (celebrities, politicians, ballplayers), most of us couldn’t hold up to the scrutiny.

  551. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    RayVTNC,I watch or listen to around 130-140 games a year.So I’m stating my opinion of what I saw or listened to.We can go back and forth on this all day.So I guess my question to you is,What do you think of Torre’s handling of pitchers?

  552. dave January 25th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Im not surprise that arod has teammates that do not like him but I AM really surprised that Joe Torre would put that in his book and you should be too pete considering how many times you said how great he was with the players. But of course you say nothing about how torre should not be writing this as I am pretty sure the large majority of baseball media in NY is still in love with Joe. I hope he does not mention the names of any of these players and even more importantly, I hope those players are long gone from NY if he does mention any names.

    Torre was a decent manager who was great with the players and media so writing in his book certain negative material about specific players makes me think two things – one, what exactly is his intention in writing specific negative comments about arod and other yankees? And two, what will his players on the dodgers think when they hear about this?

    Pete, i love how you mention the things written in torre’s book and then, proceed to talk about your opinions on cashman, the steinbrenners, Levine, Girardi, Arod and even cano but how about what you think about the fact that Torre actually wrote these things in a book? No one is surprised that it is true but arent you surprised that Torre would write all this and how do you think the dodgers feel about it? The Ny media continues to go out of its way to defend torre even long after he is gone.

    As for cano, its great that he is in shape but is that supposed to mean something to me? Sure, he may do better because he looks slimmer but it is certainly no guarantee. The main problem is that cano seems to always get off to an extremely sluggish april even when he has a great spring. I guess writing that he is slimmer is just a way to start writing about baseball and fill space without actually talking about anything but to me, cano look in shape means nothing and he has to prove it out on the field. His april will show how hard he worked this off season – not how many lbs. he lost.

  553. Frankie speaking . . . January 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    Green Beret :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanyon_Sturtze

  554. WayneTolleson January 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    So…Torre is burning his bridges, eh? So much for a retired number.

  555. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    dave – very goo post.

  556. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Okay, #1:

    “Still, I find it strange that Torre didn’t proof this before allowing his name to go on it.”

    When your name is on it you have to deal with whatever comes your way.

    And #2:

    “and if we had to live our lives in the microscope that these people do (celebrities, politicians, ballplayers), most of us couldn’t hold up to the scrutiny.”

    The last thing I want is for anyone to start probing into my life. Every good thing I’ve done would be ignored because of the handful of mistakes. I may judge people’s actions but I rarely judge them as a person.

  557. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    very good post!

    :)

  558. ray (sox fan) January 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    dave
    January 25th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
    “Im not surprise that arod has teammates that do not like him but I AM really surprised that Joe Torre would put that in his book and you should be too pete”

    I respect your views and opinions dave, but it does seem a little heavy handed to tell Pete how he should feel about something.

  559. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Lara,on the SI site Verducci said Torre read,reread it and reread it.I agree Dave had a great post.

  560. DT January 25th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    I’m sure we’ll find out it was all just an innocent mistake.
    Verducci and Torre are blameless. It was publisher Doubleday I tell ya!!

    It wasn’t A-Fraud it was A-Freud. An innocent typo. Like in
    ‘that Alex is one special guy. He’s Sigmund uncanny. He’s like a Freud”

    And Single White Female was obviously an editor screw-up. It should have been “Divorced Black Male”.

  561. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    From Newsday:

    Cashman said last night that Torre called him earlier Sunday.

    “My first thought is to wait for the book to really come out,” Cashman said. “I woke up today and saw the newspapers and I was surprised. My first reaction is to wait to hear or see what’s in the book. I think that was the smart or right move because Joe Torre called me from Hawaii not too long ago, actually.

    “I just will say I’m glad he gave me a call and I think you should wait for the book. I will just say I’m very comfortable with the relationship I have with Joe Torre, and the Yankees have with Joe Torre. He was a fantastic manager and you couldn’t ask for anything more than what he did for us. We had a lot of great times, more than you can count or remember, to be honest with you. And that’s the sole focus that we all have, myself included, obviously, despite what was in the paper today. I’m glad Joe gave me a call from Hawaii. It certainly made me feel better about what I was reading today.”

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss

  562. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    “I coulda been an “admiral”, too”

    mel-

    your new nickname is admiral smart ass : )

    admirable- i knew that.( not really)

    my theory is being able to write well is an inverse skill to playing baseball.

    that’s why you never see sports writers go into managing or coaching, and never see players or coaches go into sports writing.

    and that’s why i never pay that much attention to peopel who write well when it comes to baseball.

    they just write very well about something they have little clue about.

    now if they are writing about life with baseball as a back drop like donald hall does, that’s different.

  563. Mer January 25th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss — reporting…cashman on the record — sorry if it’s already here.

  564. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Tarheelyank

    A baseball and a picture of Mike and I (which I will frame)

    I will read Torre’s book, I’ll just take it out of the library, I have no desire to make that rat richer.

  565. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    bobmac

    I watched almost all the games as well! LOL! I had the MLB internet package. I also listened to John Sterling, LOL, on via local radio in Wilmington NC as it was on their sports radio station. I am a diehard Yankee fan. I played baseball in HS & college, and some of my friends played for the Yankees MLB team.

    Baseball is subjective. Even with facts it still is! I just think the Yankees made a huge mistake with Girardi. There were other options if you wanted Joe to leave. I didn’t like some of the things Torre did either. LOL! He had a purpose that was for the overall good of the Yankees. He is honest & direct. Girardi isn’t by any imagination.

    The Yankees are a $200M team & a $2B franchise with a $50K Manager. Girardi is at odds with everyone. That is why he was fired in Florida (Marlins not Mariners LOL!). The writers didn’t like the Marlins owner, so they voted him in as Coach of the year. Girardi is about Girardi. He is a controlling fool. He has a small set of relationships that he isolates himself and the others be …

  566. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Oh, just FYI irrational haters:

    The book is not in the first-person, it’s a third-person narrative based on dozens of interviews Verducci did with Yankees past and present. Torre obviously had his views.

    So it’s not a “tell-all” book. It’s a book about the Yankees by a respected writer with the assistance of the former manager.

    I’m sure that won’t stop people from bashing Torre. But the fact that it’s a narrative in the third person should change how people view it.

    Oh, and Cash said tonight that he spoke to Torre, the reports were overblown (wow, shocker) and his relationship with Torre is fine.

  567. yankeefan91 Arod fan January 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    well even though i love torrre i have to defend arod if it wasnt for arod last season he probably would of got fired

  568. rover January 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Just knowing the media and the way they don’t operate, is reason enough to read the freaking book before anyone gets buried. To many people here should be cops, then they could take 1+0 and come up with guilty.

    Think i will wait for the exactly what he says, then look at the context befor condemming the guy. Infact I would find it difficult to condemn the guy regardless. All these people worked together on a ball team, not a cruise ship. It wasn’t the love boat.

  569. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Again, so what if its not a TELL-ALL?

  570. Steinbooga January 25th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Remember when AROD said he “played like a dog” ?

    WOOF WOOF!

  571. Brad January 25th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    In the 2004 ALCS, there was certain close situations like Tony Clark’s ground rule double call but Torre had numerous chances to make better managerial decisions that resulted in the meltdown especially in the area of pitching. Losing 4 of 4 was completely unforgiveable given the percentages.

  572. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    “Oh, and Cash said tonight that he spoke to Torre, the reports were overblown (wow, shocker) and his relationship with Torre is fine.”

    Cash can spin. Wow, even bigger shocker!

  573. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    “There are no perfect human beings, *and if we had to live our lives in the microscope that these people do (celebrities, politicians, ballplayers), most of us couldn’t hold up to the scrutiny.*”

    And unfortunately public figures must endure the never-ending scrutiny and go into it knowing that’s the case, though they may not like it. Their eyes are wide open. It certainly inures to their benefits to live lives that are pretty much scrupulous and not go blowing off to the press or writing books that put others under that same microscope.

  574. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    I don’t care if this story is in the third person it is still a negative take on the Yanks. As a Yankee fan my allegiance is to the Yankees not a former manager with an ego problem. I respect Torre’s right to tell his story but I don’t agree with the bashing his former players and business partners.

  575. GreenBeret7 January 25th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Frankie speaking . . .
    January 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
    Green Beret :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanyon_Sturtze

    ————————————————————

    And this proves what? That he pitched in the majors? Or that he was any good. He was a 5.19 ERA pitcher with a one season best of 4.42. Exactly when was he ever better than a career minor leaguer in a major league uniform?

  576. m January 25th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Lara,

    But I thought the book said Cash and Torre had problems and Torre was seen wondering around the docks with Cashman’s shoe imprints on his back!

  577. RayVTNC January 25th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Al from BK

    Get a life! If one can’t accept criticism then one can’t grow. That is what is wrong with Girardi. Basically it was what was wrong with Torre in his early years as a Manager. Torre was broken and then learned how to deal honestly with people. That is when he became successful!

  578. able 21 January 25th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    This has to be the longest thread I have ever seen here.

    Is tomorrow’s going to be entitled “Epiblog”?

  579. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    “But I thought the book said Cash and Torre had problems and Torre was seen wondering around the docks with Cashman’s shoe imprints on his back!”

    LOL…I just copy and paste M. I just copy and paste.

  580. DT January 25th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    The normal spin is to say “out of context – you have to read the book”.

    Of course want they want to say is –
    “It’s the Sunday before Superbowl – it’s dog slow. We love all this free publicity. Yes, the economy sucks, but please go and shell out some your hard earned money and buy our book”

    I wonder if we’ll get a media quote from Bridget Fonda and Jennifer Jason Leigh.

  581. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    ray (sox fan)-

    i got your return email. small world that you played football on the same baseball field my father played on back in the 30′s. i’ll write more when i get a chance.

    this torre book may make it more difficult for the red sox because it is a challenge to the way cashman and present yankee ownership do things. if i were them it would make me want to win badly to prove torre wrong.

    the way to do that is win it all. after showing an early killer instinct in signing sabathia,teixeira, and burnett, cashman has fizzled on completing the rotation. he has to do more or else the yankees won’t be seeing the playoffs next fall either.

    maybe this book will remind him he hasn’t won anything yet.

  582. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    “It’s a book about the Yankees by a respected writer with the assistance of the former manager.”

    And from what we know so far, it seems to be a book about the Yankees by a writer* with the assistance of the former manager that demonizes the best player on the team.

    We’re Yankee fans, how exactly are we supposed to feel about a book demonizing our best player and the favorite player of many on this board? It’s Torre’s right to tell Verducci all the dirt on A-Rod that he wants, but it is also our right to hate that.

    * I am unable to call Verducci a “respected writer” after the hatchet job he did on A-Rod in that SI cover story in 2006.

  583. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

    Verducci said this on SI.com today:

    “I think it’s important to understand context here. The book is not a first-person book by Joe Torre, it’s a third-person narrative based on 12 years of knowing the Yankees and it’s about the changes in the game in that period. Seems to me the New York Post assigned this third-person book entirely to Joe Torre and that’s not the case. In fact, if people saw that Post story they probably noticed there are no quotes from Joe Torre in it. Joe Torre does not rip anybody in the book. The book really needs to be read in context.

    “Smart people will judge the book upon actually reading it and not reading preliminary reports prior to its publication. Once you understand the context of the book you understand the information. It’s not a tell-all book. Anybody who reads it will understand that.”

  584. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Pete why aren’t you at the beat writers dinner?

  585. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Um, BBB: Everything he wrote in that story was true. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it wasn’t true.

  586. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    “Al from BK

    Get a life! If one can’t accept criticism then one can’t grow. That is what is wrong with Girardi. Basically it was what was wrong with Torre in his early years as a Manager. Torre was broken and then learned how to deal honestly with people. That is when he became successful!”

    Get a life? I think I have a pretty decent one right now thanks. I disagree with you about Torre and you get bent out of shape? I can tell you’re new so I wont be the aggressor here. I think Girardi manages the pen 10X times better than Joe T did but Torre was obviously far better with the media it is a balance that Girardi will have to learn.

  587. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    ” Exactly when was he ever better than a career minor leaguer in a major league uniform”

    his absolute best moment as a yankee was when he was handling three red sox including trot nixon trying to take him down during that big brawl.

  588. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    “I respect Torre’s right to tell his story but I don’t agree with the bashing his former players and business partners.”

    Especially the former player who played the largest part in getting Torre’s Yankees into the playoffs in 2005 and 2007. If it weren’t for A-Rod (along with some help from Mo, Small and Chacon of course, but mainly ARod) Torre may have been fired after missing the playoffs in ’05.

    I wonder if he had been, would the new manager have batted ARod 8th in the playoffs in 06?

  589. Kevin January 25th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    According to ESPN, as I’m sure others have mentioned, Torre blasts the Yankees in his book. If this is true, I’m disgusted. Even if it’s not I still am because seriously how much money does this guy need? If he bashes the Yanks, he better not show his face in New York ever again. He was NOTHING before he came to the Yankees. He owes them everything. What a joke

  590. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Pete I’ll back you up every time if we get “funny” comments about all Yankees and not just a couple. LOL. I have jokes for almost every player but only one (and the manager) get the joke time.

  591. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    “Scorned skipper Joe Torre is blasting the Yankees – calling many of his former players prima donnas, confessing he stopped trusting the powers that be years before he left the team and charging that general manager Brian Cashman betrayed him.

    “In an explosive new book called “The Yankee Years,” Torre gets most personal in his attacks against Alex Rodriguez, who he says was called “A-Fraud” by his teammates after he developed a “Single White Female”-like obsession with team captain Derek Jeter and asked for a personal clubhouse assistant to run errands for him.”

    “Torre, who left the Yankees and became manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers after the 2007 season, says Cashman never told the brass that the manager wanted a two-year deal and instead remained silent during Torre’s tense final sitdown with the bosses.”

    “The 477-page tell-all, *which The Post purchased from a city bookstore last week,* is written by co-author Tom Verducci, a longtime Sports Illustrated reporter.”

    So let me get this straight. Pete says he hasn’t read the book but is kicking the crap out of those of us who are responding to the article we read in the Post, when it’s the writers at the Post actually read the book?

    I’ll stay with my take thank you.

  592. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    “RayVTNC
    January 25th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
    Al from BK

    Get a life! If one can’t accept criticism then one can’t grow.”

    Couldn’t the same be said of one who can’t accept divergent viewpoints? Why are those of us who wish to support A-Rod and/or Girardi unable to do so without someone else huffing that we should ‘get a life!’

  593. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    It is hilarious that we have 600 comments by 7:20 PM!

    But I don’t understand why the 3rd person narrative choice makes it any better? I feel that makes it worse.

  594. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Pete: Actually I know without even having read the article in a long time that not everything he wrote was true. He said no one on the team liked Alex, when we all know that he is good friends with Mo and Cano as well.

    However, you’re right, he has the right to smear A-Rod whether I like it or not……just as Torre’s critics have the right to point out his shortcomings whether his fans like it or not.

  595. m January 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    If Torre’s name is on it, then he’s cool with what’s in it. 3rd person or not.

  596. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Sorry. There’s the link.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/01.....151965.htm

  597. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    “But I don’t understand why the 3rd person narrative choice makes it any better? I feel that makes it worse.”

    I think it lessens the blow. Let me try:

    Lara thinks LoHud isn’t that good of a web site.

    See, that doesn’t hurt nearly as much.

  598. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    anyway guys I’m out, gonna go make dinner and do some stuff around the house. A-ROD IS MY HOMEBOY, AND TORRE WAS A POOR TACTICAL MANAGER, LET THE HATERS HATE!!!!!

  599. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    The guy who wrote the book said what he wrote, that wasn’t a rip job and that it needs to be read in context. But because the Post said it was a rip job, well that must be true.

    Of course. As well all know, a tabloid would never, ever try and create a little controversy, especially involving the Yankees.

    Baa. Baa. Baa.

  600. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Trisha -

    I agree – if a person chooses a career that puts him or her in the limelight it certainly behooves them to act in a manner that can withstand the scrutiny. Unfortunately, that must be difficult to achieve, because so many seem to fail. :( There are reckless individuals, and then there are those that are just unfortunate.

    Pete -

    Don’t you wonder, though, since Torre was so good at keeping things inside the clubhouse – keeping the gossip, the backbiting, the tales told out of school, so to speak, to a minimum while he was managing, why write this book now? I am curious – because it seems out of character.

  601. m January 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    So if Ricky Henderson wrote an autobiography, it would be a third-person account?

    Pete,

    Why the hostility? No one’s saying anything horrible about Torre. All the tactical stuff was hashed out in the winter of ’07.

  602. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    These days can you REEEEALLY tell the difference between tabloid and journalism? Me thinks not.

    Baa. Baa. Baa —> thats a sheep reference. It took me a second but I caught it! Go me! LOL

  603. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    This book can not hurt the 2009 Yankees or any team after this year. To me it can only hurt Joe Torre’s legacy as a YANKEE. I dont care if anyone on the Yanks like AROD he is a YANKEE and will be for a long time so we need to worry about that. If and WHEN AROD finally breaks through in OCTOBER and gets that ring is all I care bout.

  604. DT January 25th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    From that same Verducci article that Pete linked to:

    SI.com: Will Joe Torre be surprised by anything that is in this book?
    No, Joe Torre is not surprised by anything that’s in this book. He has read and re-read and re-read the book. We’ve been working on it since last November.

    I wonder if Joe laughed every time he got to the A-Fraud part?

  605. YankeeRay January 25th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    AROD fan
    January 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
    I have to wonder how comfortable Dodgers players will be this season knowing their manager might well write up their private conversations if someone offers him enough money.

    Seriously. You probably think Torre and Manny deserve each other, but if I were Manny I would make sure to work for someone else.

    ——-

    Good point Arod. I think Manny gets along well with Arod and this may make him think twice about the dodgers.
    As far as putting Girardi over the edge, signing Manny would put John Henry and all of the nation over the edge.
    The thought of the Yankees invading Fenway with Tex, Arod and Manny is priceless. Gammons wouldn’t make it through spring training and ESPN may drop baseball tonight.

    Torre will make up some of his lost salary with this book but his loyalty will be questioned forever.
    I knew we should have given Tex #6. Maybe when we sign Manny we can give him that number.

  606. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    m: Have you read the comments? People are killing the guy.

  607. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Trisha

    Pete responded by quoting the Author. You are quoting the Post. I will stay with Pete’s take, thank you.

  608. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 25th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    OK I said I was leaving but one last thing, so Tom Verducci said it wasn’t a rip job, that’s great but I find Verducci to be a sensationalist hack and thus have no reason to trust anything he says.

    also, as much as I love this blog and Pete’s reporting, it doesn’t exactly make me look forward to clicking on or participating in the comments section only to be called unintelligent and a sheep for supporting one of my favorite players/my favorite team’s best player and the reason my favorite team hasn’t been golfing all October for 2 of the past 4 seasons.

  609. CTballfan January 25th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    The “context” it needs to be read in is, controversy sells books. I’m a little confused about some of the content while Joe is still managing, he seems smarter than that, so: Theory #1: I do think Verducci probably did the bulk of the evil quote trolling, and probably got Joe in a PO’d moment to roll with it. Theory #2 is, this is Joe sending a message to Manny.

  610. bobmac January 25th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Verducci was asked if Torre would be surprised by anything in the book.Verducci replied,No,Joe Torre is not surprised by anything in this book.He has read and re-read and re-read the book.We have been working on it since last November. That’s a direct quote from Verducci so Torre is apparently comfortable with the content.I’m wondering how the info was leaked and by whom.I guess if they wanted some free publicity they sure got.

  611. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    “But I don’t understand why the 3rd person narrative choice makes it any better?”

    The third person narrative allows Torre to dish all the dirt he wants but hide behind Verducci’s skirt in the process, just like Princess Diana got her entire story out with Andrew Morton fencing as the one who did the “investigation”.

    It is no secret that Verducci trashed the Yankees over the way Torre left the Yankee organization!

    And here is an article on the UNHOLY ALLIANCE!

    *YES benches SI’s Tom Verducci*

    “Tom Verducci is out as an analyst on YES’s “Yankees Hot Stove.

    Why? *His recent, scathing column on SI.com regarding Joe Torre’s departure might have had something to do with it. Actually . . . it had pretty much everything to do with it.*

    YES spokesman Eric Handler said *Verducci’s “recent remarks pertaining to the Yankees’ ownership were extremely personal and cutting,* and we decided it would not be in our interests to have him on the show going forward.

    “Also, Tom is collaborating with Joe Torre on a second book. It’s unfortunate, but we figured it was an action that had to be taken. We appreciate the work he’s done for us in the past.”

    What does his book deal with Torre have to do with it?

    ” *The recent disclosure of Tom’s collaboration with Torre on yet another book highlights a conflict in his ability to write a balanced column about Torre’s departure from the Yankees, * ” Handler said.

    Another Newsday baseball writer turned SI writer, Jon Heyman, was on the show when it debuted Thursday night.

    Verducci, who appeared on the show for four seasons, said, “The people who put the show together are really first-class people, and I enjoyed working for them. The on-air product is very good.I’ll miss working with them. As for management, it’s their network and I fully respect their decision.”

    This is another example of the tricky path traveled by regional sports networks owned by the teams they cover. When does honest, open debate veer off into forbidden territory?

    Would Verducci be open to other local baseball analyst gigs, say at SNY?

    “I’m not going to say no. I have some other media opportunities that have been presented to me and I’ll have to see how things play out. I enjoyed doing the TV work and if they have a forum that matched my interest I’d certainly listen to them.”

    http://weblogs.newsday.com/spo.....s_sis.html

    One lies and the other swears to it.

  612. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    Well, players get killed all the time and over some of the most petty crap there is. Joe will live.

  613. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    Peter, the Post is never Wrong!

    http://cupofcha.com/wp-content.....phardt.jpg

    Kerry/Gephardt ’04!

  614. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    “Pete responded by quoting the Author. You are quoting the Post. I will stay with Pete’s take, thank you.”

    I am quoting the Post because they actually read the book! Pete didn’t.

    But OF COURSE you’ll stay with Pete’s take! That’s the equivalent of saying the sun will rise tomorrow.

    :D

  615. m January 25th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    I have, Pete, but no one is wishing death upon him. Yes, I recall a couple of “scumbag” comments. But you never get upset when A-rod’s called that. j/k

    And the other stuff is just recycling the gripes that came out after Torre left. And some of the criticisms are justified, even if the vitriol isn’t.

    Nothing that violates the Terms of Service and the language’s been pretty clean. This is hardly “killing” the guy. Pavano, Alex, and even Phil Hughes get it much worse.

  616. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    This all makes me think of the one time I actually agreed with Skip Bayless. His recent comments on how it was Jeff Kent and not Bonds who was the bad teammate on the Giants. Who Jeff Kent was nicest to was the media, unlike Bonds.

    Notice how all the “good guys” in sports seem to do well with the media either by not saying anything controversial or being a class clown.

  617. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    People are killing the guy.

    ===============================

    I’ve seen other players/people be bashed worse around here. This is nothing for Saint Joe.

  618. YankeeDiva January 25th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Nothing funnier than people who have not read the book commenting here and/or calling WFAN to rip Torre…

    People who aren’t intelligent operate that way, especially on the internet. They just decide something is true because they want it to be true. They’re sheep.
    ________________________________

    Said the man who posted this on the HIS blog for fans to chat about. Glass houses and Stones don’t mix Pete.

  619. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    1. Yankees mgmt offer Joe a pay cut when everyone knows they want him out…bad management practice and classless

    2. Torre leaves rather than sign….classy

    3.Torre signs with Dodgers….neutral

    4. Yankees mgmt do not include Torre in YS ceremonies…classless

    5. Torre writes book or third persons book or whatever he did that has comments that may be construed as negative toward former employer and current yankee players while still a manager for his new team…classless

  620. m January 25th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Pete,

    It looks like the thread has hit a nerve with you. Let me just say that I think it’s the coolest thing that you had a good working relationship with Joe Torre. I know that you’re supposed to be hands-off when you’re dealing with these people and don’t think of it as a big deal. But I think I speak for many when I say that you’re one lucky SOB.

  621. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    HA HA HA HA HA!!! Verducci rips the Yankees and the way Torre’s departure was handled and gets the axe from the YES network – but Verducci is a “highly respected reporter” whose word about the Yankee organization and whatever he says about this book should be trusted.

    The writers at the Post read the book and reported on what they read. But they are not to be trusted.

    Long live Saint Joe and those whose syncophantic devotion to his imagine is legend…

  622. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    *sycophantic

  623. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Trisha
    Did you read Verducci’s article on the Yankees? DO you think the Yankees handled it well. What about Levine? Which parts actually do you disagee with?

  624. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    I just think the timing and strategy involved with this is particularly upsetting. Not only is Torre bashing the Yanks but hes releasing it in time to serve as a spring training distraction, something this team DOESN’T need. Oh well this is just business Torre wants to sell copies of this book and I won’t bite I just hope the Dodgers get to the series so we can get the one one one Torre/Yanks showdown. If they don’t resign Manny I like our odds.

  625. ALEX R. January 25th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    I don’t care what this book has to say, no one knows what it’s like to be in that clubhouse all of the time. This is just one side of the story so no one really knows for sure. Anyway, I’m going to read the book cover-to-cover just to be sure that they didn’t leave out anything.

  626. Steve27 January 25th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Forget free agents. The perfect way for the Yankees to win is to throw a few tablets of whatever Trisha is taking into the water supply in the visitor’s clubhouse.

  627. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    i’m pretty sure two things are going to happen.

    someday torre’s going to have his yankee number retired.

    and cashman is going to be fired .

    maybe this book could have waited, but maybe it’s just ahead of it’s time.

  628. Steve27 January 25th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    The Post is more reliable than Sports Illustrated? Since when?

    Did you know that YES banned Joel Sherman from Hot Stove? Oh, wait. HE WRITES FOR THE POST. So much for that theory. Take your meds.

    P’owned.

  629. NongEyeJon January 25th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I am so sick of the “Saint Joe”, “Joe the Martyr” act. If you are going to leave, just leave and shut up. This is a cash-grab, and an attempt to get back at the Yankees. Does he have the right to do so? Yes…but lets not look at him like he can do no wrong. He’s violating that which is supposed to be sacred in the clubhouse…that what is said/done in the clubhouse, stays there.

  630. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    “Trisha
    Did you read Verducci’s article on the Yankees? DO you think the Yankees handled it well. What about Levine? Which parts actually do you disagee with?”

    Tarheel, are you actually interested in my take on this or are you just trying to set me up? Because if it’s the latter seriously I have better thing to do with my time than respond to posts in earnest when the questioner is doing nothing more than lying in wait.

    I definitely have answers to your questions. I’ve just tired of people making decisions that answers that differ from what they consider to be etched in stone are unequivocally the wrong answer. Pete is the master of that ploy.

  631. DT January 25th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    If you believe Torre’s number will be retired now – you must believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too.

  632. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Steve 27, it has nothing to do with the Post per se. It is that the Post is the paper that got the advanced copy of the book and reported on it after they read the book. It could have been any newspaper.

  633. Doug January 25th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Sweet Jebus trisha! You have been here for more than 12 hours railing against Torre.
    I expect that by Tuesday you’ll be at his house boiling his pet rabbit.

  634. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Al, I agree – third person or not, who cares? It’s still Joe’s POV. I’m glad he called Cash and warned him….now Cash had better call each player and warn THEM, lol. Tom Verducci wrote that hack job on Cashman a few years back in SI – it was a terrible piece of journalism and unfair to say the least. Pete continues to worship at the altar – no surprise.

  635. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    “HA HA HA HA HA!!! Verducci rips the Yankees and the way Torre’s departure was handled and gets the axe from the YES network”

    Well, the Yankees did deserved to be ripped for how they handled the Torre matter and it’s not exactly news that YES puts a high premium (read: it’s a job requirement)on their on air people having a certain sycophantic quality.

  636. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    “Sweet Jebus trisha! You have been here for more than 12 hours railing against Torre.
    I expect that by Tuesday you’ll be at his house boiling his pet rabbit.”

    Why Doug, I thought that what a forum was for. So we have an issue that I feel strongly about. Does that bother you? If so, don’t read my posts. I spend about 1/1000000th of the time here, all totaled, that most people do. Forgive me that if on a Sunday I decide that I want to hang out with people I’ve grown to enjoy and respect (the posters) and actually talk about the issue at hand. Next time I’ll do a check with you to see which things I should feel highly impassioned about and which I should let go by. You are the judge of that one, right?

  637. Steinbooga January 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Whats the big deal here? So, Torre says the players dont like AROD. Well if AROD was not such a phony…..

    If AROD had signed with Tampa Bay after he opted out, he would have said this at the press conference :

    “I am looking forward to following such great players as Kevin Stocker and Rolando Arrojo in the great tradition of Tampa Bay baseball”

  638. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    “He’s violating that which is supposed to be sacred in the clubhouse…that what is said/done in the clubhouse, stays there.”

    i’d actually agree with that, but i come to another conclusion about why he would do that.
    i’m thinking that torre has good reasons for making an exception to the rule .
    reading the book wil be one way to find out.

    if you don’t like what he says, do like i do with bill james. read it at barnes and noble so you don’t have to give money to someone you don’t like.

  639. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Ok, Pete, that quote is just a rambling way of saying absolutely nothing. If you think Verducci is going to reveal anything of substance before the book is released, you’re fooling yourself. It’s rather hard to take this “respected” journalist seriously when (a) he hacked ARod to pieces,undoubtedly with Joe’s help, in SI and (b) when he took a sledghammer to Cashman during ST last year, also in SI.

  640. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Trisha,

    I love the Yankees. They screwed up with Joe. They should have just fired him and said it’s time to move on. Instead we had Levine talking his garbage. I agree with what Verducci wrote about it.

    As far as this book is concerned, I will be disappointed if it is as negative as the Post article writes it will be. IF being the key word.

  641. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    “Well, the Yankees did deserved to be ripped for how they handled the Torre matter”

    Steve B – you do realize that there is a very wide chasm on that topic, don’t you? There are a lot of people who disagree with that take.

  642. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    by the way heres the link

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../18/torre/

  643. Steinbooga January 25th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Tom Verducci is in talks to write yet another book that trashes the Yankees. He co writes this one with Giuseppe Franco , who takes shots at the YES Network for dropping his ads for the NHR account. Giuseppe also calls Alex Rodriguez “A-Fraud”

  644. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I love Pete’s blog, but here are my issues with Pete’s comments today:

    1) Starts post with a quote by Cano that purportedly proves Torre’s point that everyone in the clubhouse, even A-Rod’s few friends, think he is a fraud, and, furthermore, proves that he actually IS a fraud, just like his nickname, A-Fraud, implies.

    2) Gets mad at bloggers in comments section for taking issue with Torre’s book that called A-Rod a fraud and claimed the clubhouse calls him A-Fraud, because we all know A-Rod is a fraud and Torre didn’t say anything controversial.

    3) Tells bloggers they shouldn’t comment about what’s in teh book before they have read it, and that we don’t know if Torre said those things.

    4) Tells bloggers it’s ok if Torre did call A-Rod A-Fraud because actually Verducci wrote it in the 3rd person

    Question: How professional is it to devote the entire day’s blog to proving that the Yankees’ best player is actually a fraud and has no friends? Sure, consult your friend Torre and then blame the Post for tabloid reporting.

  645. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    I’m a little surprised we haven’t had a statement from Hank yet on this matter. Is he alright? ;)

  646. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    “read it at barnes and noble so you don’t have to give money to someone you don’t like.”

    :D

    “As far as this book is concerned, I will be disappointed if it is as negative as the Post article writes it will be. IF being the key word.”

    Tarheel, fair enough. I agree with that characterization. And it is also my love of the Yankees that causes me to be so bothered by what is alleged.

  647. John_Halfz January 25th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    The Post is in bed with anything that will sell papers. Have you ever read Page 6? Anyway, 475 pages and all the Post could come up with is that Joe Torre didn’t care for Alex Rodriguez.

    It’s just so weird that people are ready to crucify Torre. The organization that fired Yogi Berra, fired Billy Martin for sport at times, treated free agents like chattel, etc. All of a sudden, because Don Mattingly and Derek Jeter have played for this team (but mostly because they’ve won many World Series), they typify “class”? Totally asinine.

    Fun team, great fun watching them. But “class”? As far as the reaction of new transactions? Heck, I’d say anything if I were being paid 175% over market value

  648. DT January 25th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    I loved the book description on Amazon:

    “The joys of managing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, and the challenges of managing Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi. Torre’s last year, when constant ultimatums from the front office, devastating injuries, and a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved.”

    Ahhh…. those warm September nights in the playoffs….
    Maybe it would help to turn the calendar page…

  649. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    “If you believe Torre’s number will be retired now – you must believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too.”

    yankee gms and owners come and go. what torre did will get his number retired.

    people who believed in cashman’s hughes, kennedy, joba rotation plan last year are the ones who believe in the easter bunny.

    cashman won’t be around long enough to have a say about retiring torre’s number.
    the steinbrenner brothers will sell the team and be gone as soon as george dies.

  650. bodhisattva January 25th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    Peter Abraham
    January 25th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
    The guy who wrote the book said what he wrote, that wasn’t a rip job and that it needs to be read in context. But because the Post said it was a rip job, well that must be true.
    Of course. As well all know, a tabloid would never, ever try and create a little controversy, especially involving the Yankees.
    Baa. Baa. Baa.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    The question is, did he go into inter-personal player relationships? Context is irrelevant.

    Joe Torre has every right to villify Levine and even the Steinbrenners. Divulging confidential in-clubhouse stuff between the players is something else altogether.

    Those players remain in that work environment. They are not safely retired or even on other teams. If Torre is cavalier about them – how about himself? He’s an active ML manager.

    If I am a Dodger, I am loathe to place any trust in the manager, who has harped on the “trust” that exists between he and his players so often in the past, he now comes off here as a self-serving hypocrite, who apparently sees himself as above the code of confidentiality that is a manager’s duty to uphold.

  651. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    trisha

    I disagree with a lot of what you write, but I do not doubt your love of the Yankees.

  652. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    The bottom line is this, Joe Torre was never a great in game manager and he only became what he is because of the Yankees. We should all read the book and judge for ourselves but Torre should not say anything about anybody. This whole Arod stuff too is crazy, yes he is a weird guy and not everyone loves him, but the main reason the yankees haven’t won in so long is they haven’t had the pitching and now they finally have it so lets see what happens, not to mention they have a real first baseman not a statue over there. Pete I am sure your happy with this though, it created plenty of action on this blog and im sure thats why everyone is running with it to get the publicity.

  653. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    “Steve B – you do realize that there is a very wide chasm on that topic, don’t you? There are a lot of people who disagree with that take.”

    Yup. My bad, if I appeared to be passing off opinion as fact.

    My feeling is that they didn’t want him back and went thru a bogus charade out of fear that they’d be viewed as the bad guy. I think the classy way of handling would have been to say “thanks for what you’ve done, but we feel we have to move in a different direction”. It’s clean. It’s simple. It demonstrates a fortitude that was not evident in the way they did do it. It’s the way it should have been.

  654. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    One more thing about the first/third person which Pete does’t seem to understand:

    There is absolute no difference between saying “I went to the movies and bought a box of popcorn” and “Betsy went to the movies and bought a box of popcorn”. First and third person usage is simply a different way of saying the same thing – it is not conveying different information.

  655. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    I can’t believe the Post left out the real shocking stuff from his years with the Mets where he called Willie Montanez a fraud!

  656. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    “not to mention they have a real first baseman not a statue over there.”

    But, but, but…he’s a really nice guy.

  657. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

    “I disagree with a lot of what you write”

    Tarheel but therein, to me, lies the beauty of a forum. I’m sure you’ve noticed there is hardly ever unanimity of opinion, but there is nevertheless strong and oftentimes intelligent thought-out opinion – and oftentimes there are equally well thought-out and intelligent opinions on opposite sides of issues.

    Unlike the jackals here who feel the need to pull me and others apart in a personally disparaging fashion when they disagree with our opinions on things, I respect both sides of any story but still maintain my right to voice my opinion strongly. But I don’t accuse others of drinking kool aid or being nitwits or call them delusional because I understand that bright and well-intended people can look at the same issue and come up with different takes.

  658. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    “My feeling is that they didn’t want him back and went thru a bogus charade out of fear that they’d be viewed as the bad guy.”

    Amazing that the Steinbrenners would care that much to put on such a show. There were more than enough people who thought it was time for Joe to leave that the feelings were probably 50-50. As someone who truly believed it was time for Joe to go I didn’t like the way it was done.

    Call it class, call it business, call it mean…but a clean cut would have been best.

  659. Peter Abraham January 25th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Betsy:

    The point is that this is not an autobiography. It’s not Torre writing, “I went into the clubhouse and players were calling Alex a fraud. Boy, are they right.”

    It’s Verducci writing, “Former Yankees said that Rodriguez was known as a fraud.”

    That’s the difference. It’s a narrative, not an autobiography. Torre was a source, the primary source, but he didn’t write it.

  660. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    I’d say offering a manager a $1.5 million paycut is a sign you don’t want him back, despite winning 4 World Series and making the playoffs every single year.

  661. LOL January 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Clueless Joe is a prima donna. I dont respect him after seeing him hold a press conference telling everyone that a 5 million dollar deal with incentives that could make it 9 million is an insult what a jerk.

  662. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Lara

    That’s a big point in verduccis’s article. It wasn’t Stein and family, but Levine.

  663. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Yeah Giambi was but with the steroids and the terrible defense the Yankees made a mistake they should of never made not to mention these guys like the Big G and Abreu just didnt seem to have that desire to win which i see more in this team with CC,Tex Swish,Nady. I think this will be a huge difference and if the Yankees win with Girardi i am sure the Girardi bashing will go away, he may not be as nice as Torre was to the media but he is a better manager. Remember it was Clueless Joe before the yankees made him, if anyone wants to take me to task or agree with me please do.

  664. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    Okay, Joe didn’t write it. Why is his name on the book? Is the book not really the cover? Help me understand why I shouldn’t feel Torre gets as much credit as Verducci?

  665. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    If Joe Torre’s number is or is not to be retired someday, this book will have absolutely no bearing on it either way. Time heals wounds and this is just a scrape. In a month hardly anyone will be talking about it.
    The old axiom of what is said in here stays in here – meaning the clubhouse – is still the code in sports. I am a little mystified at what is purported to have been relayed by Joe – or as some put it, allowed to be transcribed to the third person. Was it just a teaser to get sales? Was it even Joe’s idea to put it in the book in the first place? Or was it Verducci because he knew a few good barbs would be trumpeted in the media meaning more sales for his book.

    What will be interesting to me is how Joe publicly answers the questions about it he is sure to get.

  666. nyk26 January 25th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    “Torre was a source, the primary source, but he didn’t write it.”

    looks like his name is on the cover as an author…Why does this remind me of Bill Clinton’s definition of what is and isn’t sex?

  667. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    I guess I’ll have to break down and watch 30 Rock even though I can’t stand Alec Baldwin. They seem to be cleaning up at every awards show.

  668. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    example

    “Levine’s Yankees are proud of themselves today because they think they ran Joe Torre out of New York without getting blood on their hands. They think you are dumb enough to believe that Torre was not fired, that they really, really wanted him back, but that, golly gee, Torre turned down their offer.”

  669. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Bottom line- Joe Torre won big in his first 5 years and did little after that. 2004 was the biggest choke-job in the history of this franchise and Torre as manager has to shoulder a little bit of the blame. Following 2004 Joe couldn’t get the team out of the first round he deserved a lesser contract you can’t get paid on your resume alone you need to be accountable when the team fails and Torre thought he was above accountability. Good riddance Joe T I hope you enjoy the West Coast lifestyle its a lot more suitable for an aging manager.

  670. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Actually, according to Cot’s, the $5 million offer was a $2 million paycut to his base salary. He made 7 mil in 2007. If you don’t think that is an insult to a Hall of Fame manager, you are Clueless, not Clueless Joe.

  671. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Pete if you told me that you and Arod got into a fight, and I wrote in a book that Pete and AROD got into a fight. Its still saying the same thing. Torre is in the wrong here I think. If he did say that former players said it and if he infact bashes the YANKS Boss and GM I think its a sour move on his part. If I was on the Dodgers Id have a hard time trusting him Im sorry, I was a huge Torre fan and wanted him back. Im a coach and Im sorry Id never throw my former players under any bus, Id take a different route.

  672. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    “did little after that”

    making the playoffs every single year in the most pressurized job in pro sports is little? wow, when Joe Girardi wins the divison and loses in the first round he’ll get a ticker tape parade.

  673. yankeefan91 Arod fan January 25th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    so pete can we have info of who were those players callin arod a fraud i guarantee u they wont say it in his face

  674. m January 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Who’s advance was bigger? Verducci? I doubt that.

  675. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    I guess all you geniuses think Tom Coughlin deserves a paycut for not advancing in the playoffs this year.

    I think Torre is wrong for the timing of this book but the bottom line is the Yanks treated him like dirt after ’07. What should Girardi’s paycut be if the Yankees don’t win it all this year?

  676. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Torre will be ensconced on the west coast. The Dodgers don’t even do spring training in Florida anymore. So, the NY media will not be questioning Torre – he will basically escape that. But there will be a team left here to answer the inevitable questions.

  677. E-Man January 25th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    “so pete can we have info of who were those players callin arod a fraud i guarantee u they wont say it in his face”

    lol you can guarantee that?

  678. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    Celerino Sanchez

    Just like the incentives were an insult?

  679. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Like Celerino said:

    “So here is how Levine & Co. treated the Hall of Fame bound manager: They offered to cut his pay by 23 percent — so insulting that the players’ association has rules against such a huge cut for its members — to bring him back for only one year (which keeps their sniping of a lame-duck manager in play) and to throw in “performance bonuses” (which are unprecedented even for the least accomplished managers) based on a postseason model that any baseball observer with the least bit of sense understands is more random than controllable.”

  680. abe's odd world January 25th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    You people need lives. Who cares really? Just win in 09.

  681. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Tarheel – I absolutely believe that those who think it was a fraud transaction believe it to the core of their being.

    Then there is the other side who believes that the offer was sincere and that they wanted to give Torre another chance but felt they couldn’t do it in good faith by offering the same amount of money. They were giving him one last chance to get the job done. Those people believe to the core of their being that Torre was given a reasonable offer and that he should have gladly accepted it.

    I see how both sides could have felt the way they did. I have my own take on it and am convicted in that take, but also leave room that it is in the realm of possibility that the other side got it right since there is no way to know for sure.

    Is it so hard for people to have that kind of respect for “the other side?”

  682. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Wow. I was busy all day and now stopped by to get caught up. Looks like I missed a lot of fun!

    So let’s see… Pete places a link to an article on ESPN (including video) that quotes today’s back pages of both NY tabloids. All subject of 3 articles is that Joe Torre ripped A Rod, Brian Cashman and the Steinbrenners. Pete then rails against those who react to it.

    Nice job getting 500 hits today Pete, but I have to say a lot of folks were set up by you and the media.

  683. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    “Torre will be ensconced on the west coast. The Dodgers don’t even do spring training in Florida anymore. So, the NY media will not be questioning Torre – he will basically escape that. But there will be a team left here to answer the inevitable questions.”

    Exactly Doreen. Total selfish move by Torre I guess number 6 remains an active number.

  684. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    And for those who don’t know I was being sarcastic. Cause it seems Joe only became offended by the incentives when it suited him.

    Joe Torre Manager
    3 years/$13M (2008-10)

    * 3 years/$13M (2008-10)
    o hired by LA Dodgers 11/1/07
    o rejected offer to return to Yankees 10/18/07: 1 year/$5M (2008), plus $8M 2009 vesting option (guaranteed with 2008 AL pennant) & performance bonuses ($1M each for reaching ALDS, ALCS & World Series)
    * 3 years/$19.2M (2005-07)
    o signed extension 4/04
    o 05:$6.1M, 06:$6.1M, 07:$7M
    o salaries increased to $6.7M (2005-06) & $7.5M (2007)
    o $1M in annual performance bonuses
    + $0.4M for winning ALCS, $0.6M for winning World Series
    o extension also includes 6-year consulting agreement
    * 3 years/$16.5M (2002-04)
    o 04:$5M
    o $1.4M in performance bonuses
    + $0.1M each for 90, 94, 98 & 102 victories
    + $0.2M for winning ALDS, $0.3M for winning ALCS, $0.5M for winning World Series
    * 2 years/$6M (2000-01)
    o 00:$3M, 01:$3M
    * 3 years/$2.8M (1997-99)
    o 97:$0.8M, 98:$1M, 99:$1M
    o signed 2/97, reworking final year of previous deal
    * 2 years/$1.05M (1996-97)
    o 96:$0.5M, 97:$0.55M
    o hired 11/95, replacing Buck Showalter

  685. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    But Doreen. This is 2009, not 1936. Unless he’s on the moon he’ll be getting questions. He’ll have to answer them soon enough.

  686. Celerino Sanchez January 25th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Celerino Sanchez

    Just like the incentives were an insult?

    He always had the incentives you morons. They offered a 2 million salary cut. I’m sure all of you would love a 30% paycut at your job regardless of how you perform at it.

  687. DT January 25th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    “Torre was a source, the primary source, but he didn’t write it.”

    LOL

    I hope he uses that excuse on Letterman.

    “No Dave, the A-Fraud comment -that was Verducci”
    “Nope Dave, the crybaby pitcher story – that was Verducci”
    “No Dave, Single White Female was Verducci also”

    Dave: “So Joe, should we pay Verducci for this appearance?”
    Joe: “No Dave, That would be me.”
    Dave: “And all book profits are going to Verducci?”
    Joe: “No Dave, that would be me.”

  688. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    (which keeps their sniping of a lame-duck manager in play) and to throw in “performance bonuses” (which are unprecedented even for the least accomplished managers) based on a postseason model that any baseball observer with the least bit of sense understands is more random than controllable.”

    ———–
    really see my above post. He has had them!!!

  689. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    “What should Girardi’s paycut be if the Yankees don’t win it all this year?”

    The same as Torre’s was the second year he didn’t win it all – and the third year he didn’t win it all – and the fourth year he didn’t win it all – and the fifth year he didn’t win it all – and the sixth year he didn’t win it all.

    No pay cut.

  690. yankeefan91 Arod fan January 25th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    the yanks should sign manny and steal manny away from the dodgers to see how hard that hits torre lol

  691. Kevin January 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    PA, you’ve got it all wrong man. Sure some people are overreacting but how can you blame them? If this book isn’t 100% positive Torre is a buffoon, plain and simple. He won 4 World Series rings with the Yankees and made 13 consecutive playoffs. It made him loads of money and his star rose SO MUCH because of it. He owes so much of his success to the Yankee organization. Any negative comments on his part would be laughable to me.

  692. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Brad -

    Yes, but not nearly the same as if he had to face the NY media on a daily basis.

  693. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Celerino Sanchez

    Just like the incentives were an insult?

    He always had the incentives you morons. They offered a 2 million salary cut. I’m sure all of you would love a 30% paycut at your job regardless of how you perform at it.

    —–

    geez I can’t wait till we have registration. I know the first person I will ignore.

  694. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    “I guess all you geniuses think Tom Coughlin deserves a paycut for not advancing in the playoffs this year.”

    “He always had the incentives you morons.”

    Those comments will surely convince all that you know what you’re talking about…

  695. Steve B January 25th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Garym:

    Since you invited disputes, I’ll dispute your ability (and anyone else’s) to measure one’s desire to win. In naming Giambi and Abreu, you are picking on the popular whipping boys of the past several years. How Robinson Cano and his less than inspiring 2008 effort escaped your wrath is beyond me. Further, what exactly was in Xavier Nady screamed “desire to win”? Maybe you mean Xavier Nady the ’08 Pirate? Because Xavier Nady the ’08 Yankee was not much of a ballplayer.

    I think it should be enough to appreciate that the organization itself is showing a desire to win by improving the team, but let’s delude ourselves into believing 1) We can read one’s desire to win or anything else and 2) That the team is now devoid of players who were part of the problem the past few seasons. Indeed, many of them still remain.

  696. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    To me Girardi needs to BE FIRED if he doesnt reach the playoffs and get to the ALCS. Bring back Buck Showalter seriously. Girardi I dont think can manage these guys, they remember him as a team mate and I dont think he can reach them on a manager level. If Im wrong Ill admit it but I just dont think so. Im hope im wrong cause I wanna win this year, but if we dont gotta say bye-bye

  697. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    To me Girardi needs to BE FIRED if he doesnt reach the playoffs and get to the ALCS. Bring back Buck Showalter seriously. Girardi I dont think can manage these guys, they remember him as a team mate and I dont think he can reach them on a manager level. If Im wrong Ill admit it but I just dont think so. Im hope im wrong cause I wanna win this year, but if we dont gotta say bye-bye

  698. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    dont know why that posted twice very strange sorry guys

  699. Mark January 25th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    Like some cheese with your whine, Mr.Torre? If things were so hostile, why’d you stick around? It was your time to go, too bad you’re blind to that.

  700. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    Trisha

    As you so eloquently pointed out earlier, therein lies the beauty of a forum.

    I appreciate a difference of opinions, I detest character assinations on Yankee players and managers that I feel are special. Especially,when we dont have all the information. I feel with Andy and now Torre you have done that.

    I have yet to see you go against the Yankee front office.

  701. pat January 25th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    Boy I missed alot today.

    I bet Torre called A-Rod right after he spoke to Cash? Right?

    “Unnamed sources” and “people with knowledge” should be reserved for criminal investigations that serve the public good, not something for guys in a clubhouse to hide behind. You have something to say, own it. Give Verducci credit for one thing. He’s owned his dislike for A-Rod instead of tap dancing around it like other writers.

    Wonder if Jorge is upset that Joe said/Tom thinks (I guess we’ve determined there is difference between the 2?) managing Jeter and Mo was “a joy” but doesn’t mention him? Sometimes what you don’t say is more hurtful than what you do say.

    The Post is not to believed? You mean A-Rod and Madonna might not be dating and Jeter hasn’t romanced 7 of the Maxim 100? :wink:

  702. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Doreen and AL BK
    I don’t know if a daily bombardment of the same questions concerning the statements made in the book serves anyone any purpose. (except those that might think Joe deserves to squirm a little here).
    He will undoubtedly be questioned by NY media, and he will need to answer in some way. Just because he’s in LA won’t insulate him from that.

  703. Amandla January 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    Oh Celerino, unfortunately your logic isn’t nearly as fun as rallying around a common hate. Blog on though. Some of us are right there with you.

  704. Laura - Andy, please sign or retire so we can stop talking about you! January 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    “To me Girardi needs to BE FIRED if he doesnt reach the playoffs and get to the ALCS. ”

    Let’s not put the horse before the cart. Let the season start before we start calling for his head.

  705. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    People are killing the guy.

    ===========================

    I’ve seen other players/people be bashed worse around here. This is nothing for Saint Joe.

    ******************************************************

    Absolutely, SA.

    Pete, a FEW people are killing Joe Torre – that’s a little more accurate.

  706. dave January 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    PRETTY INTERESTING, PLEASE READ IF YOU HAVE THE TIME:

    I just read the post from last night because i HAVE been pretty busy. While the entire post was a little irritating to me, I think this line hit home the most: “it’s no coincidence that the year he left, the Yankees failed to make the playoffs”

    Frank,
    Frankly, you have to be kidding me (pun intended). I mean did you watch the team last year? Did you notice that we went into the season with cash deciding the team was in partial rebuilding mode by making Latroy Hawkins our biggest off season acquisition and relying on Hughes and kennedy to fill the fourth and fifth spot out of the rotation. Did you see Carl pavano start opening day? I did because i was at opening day. Did you realize that not only was Hughes and Kennedy injured and ineffective by May but wang, posada and matsui all missed huge chunks of the season?

    That was our ace, our fourth ad fifth starter, our all star starting catcher and our number five hitter all down for most of the season. And then, we were relying on sidney ponson and darrell rasner to make significant contributions to the rotation along with Moose who did extremely well but it must be remembered that he was being called by over 50 percent of yankee fans to retire before the season started. I mean Girardi is not miracle worker – the team just was not nearly as good as it was the year prior … And I am not even considering cano’s giant leap from all star to dud and melky’s return to minor league status.

    Girardi still managed with all the problems in the rotation to have one of the bests bullpens in baseball using them all to our advantage even though many were no-namers before last season. Torre hadnt managed the bullpen well in years and Girardi did better than anyone else could have dreamed in regards to the pen. And somehow, Moose turned his entire career around – not saying Girardi was the reason but im sure the coaching helped and girardi knew pitchers as he was a catcher.

    Everything that could have went wrong for girardi did last year including cashman’s mid season acquistion who were two solid players contributing far less than their numbers would have indicated on the pirates. And then, pettitte decided to pitch through an injury rather than sit and hurt the team even more down the stretch. Our record fell from 94 and 68 (580 winning percentage) finishing in second place to the sox in 2007 with no one else in the division besides us and the sox above 512 and no one else in the league that did not make the playoffs above 543. To a record of 89 and 73 in 2008 (.549 wng percentage) with boston winning at a 586 clip to make the wildcard and the rays dominating with a 599 winning percentage.

    Now, there is two things you can take from these numbers. One, with all of the problems we had following murphy’s law, we still managed to win only 5 less games in 2008 than 2007 – thanks to Moose’s comeback from the dead and the tremendous contributions from the pen which was mostly Girardi’s doing. Pretty incredible all things considering. Secondly, and this is a bit more interesting – we had a 580 WP (winning percentage) in 2007 and managed to win the wildcard berth. The funny thing is that same record in 2008 would have let us finish in third place in the division and out of the playoffs – the exact same event as did actually occur. And remember, there was much more difficult competition in 2008 within the division so who knows if the 2007 team could have even won that many games.

    Whats even more ironic if that our record and WP in 2008 of 549 put into the 2007 standing would have still guaranteed us the wildcard spot and we still would have finished second in the division. What does this mean? Not only did the yankees receive no actual help in the off season prior to last year but they were also destroyed by injuries and ineffectiveness in 2008 and had to face much better competition. If Girardi was the manager in 2007 there is no doubt in my mind we would have made the playoffs and I would even go so far as to assume that we would have at the very least made it to the ALCS as Girardi would have managed the pen in the first series far better.

    Sorry for the long post but I had to go that out and this is my only one of the day. I promise!!

  707. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    Any news on Phil Pavano Hughes? Is he injured yet?

  708. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    I said IF he doesnt reach the playoffs or get to the ALCS. Im not saying fire him today

  709. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Brad =

    I’m not sure that’s so. Is the press (are the press?) going to fly out to Arizona/LA to question Torre? I would suspect that by the time the book is actually out for public consumption (2/3), he will be long-gone from Westchester.

    Sure, he’ll get some questions, but it’s not going to be anything like it would have been if he were more physically accessible.

  710. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    I said IF he doesnt reach the playoffs or get to the ALCS. Im not saying fire him today or tomorrow but by October maybe

  711. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    A Rod is a Fraud. He has been such ever since he put on a Yanks uniform…what is so shocking about that? Can he hit his weight in post season or w/RISP?

  712. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    He’s only making $32 mill this year, give the guy a break….gees!

  713. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    And, apparently, he’s in Hawaii now, right?

  714. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    It is a wonder how A Rod has never won a championship at any level of baseball he has ever played….hummmmmm

  715. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    And really Pete, you’re going to cite Cashman as a source without considering there might be some degree of spin in his response? :)

    He might be speaking the truth in this case, but the man rightly has “the ability to bluff like a World Series poker player” as part of his job description too.

  716. NongEyeJon January 25th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    I guess Torre really does love Girardi like he says he does…he’s going to give Girardi a lot of press time handling this mess. Great guy.

  717. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Buck Showalter LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

  718. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    On that note, it is bed time……Buck Showalter, that is the funniest thing I have heard in awhile…downright funny!!!

  719. gayle January 25th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    The last thing I will say about this is that the DOubleday publicity department must be over the moon they have gotten out of the exerpt from the POst exactly what they wanted tons of free publicity and for the next day or so they gets even more of it on sports talk radio around the country and in the biggest media market in the country.

    Nice way to launch the book without spending a dime. Anyone would want that kind of launch.

    Nothing is ever black or white in these types of situations just lots of shades of gray. However when you put your name on the book as the author than you have to stand behind what is inside it whether it is in the first person or in the third person. I am sure he had full approval rights on the final edit so the only thing I ask if that he has a problem with something that is written in the book then he has to come out and say. If you think something was incorrect in the book then you also need to come out and say that as well. It is rare these days that people actually stand behind their words and there seems to be no accountability.

    I would rather hear from people who have actually READ the entire book that have no financial interest in the book to get a more complete assessment than a member of the media who is trying to sell newspapers or get ratings or a writer of the book who is looking to make even more money.

  720. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Anybody know the avg age of the Yankees this year? Are they in the top 5 in oldest team?

  721. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Ru serious he is a very smart baseball guy and a good manager you have got to be kidding me right??? Im sorry you dont know alot about baseball

  722. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    “It is a wonder how A Rod has never won a championship at any level of baseball he has ever played….hummmmmm”

    That “point” was ridiculous when Pete made it. It still is.

    Right up there with “Player A is not worth XX dollars.” in worthless comments.

  723. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Brad- Its not even the content its the timing. Low blow from Torre who was a nobody manager until he got his shot from the Yanks.

  724. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Is Damon, Matsui, Nady, Melky the worst outfield in baseball defensively? Bring back Bernie!

  725. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    i have no problem with what i’ve heard so far that’s in torre’s book because i don’t consider arod, cashman, levine, or the stenbrenner brothers as “the yankees”.

    the yankees are bigger than just a present star player, present gm, or present owner.

    i look at this book as a very interesting development because if arod, cashman, and the new steinbrenners want to earn their yankee stripes, they do need to pick up their game.

    it may be an attack on present yankee management and ownership, but i don’t see it as an attack on the yankees in general. as a matter of fact it might help because it might light a fire under all previously mentioned.

  726. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    mYGIRLS,

    Are you kidding me? How is arod a fraud? You didnt think his two mvps in four years is enough? Should he have won all four? If You think we would have gotten to the playoffs without him in 2007, think again? And how did wang do in the playoffs last year? And he is supposed to be our ace, is he a fraud too? How about jeter? He did horrendous as well, is he a fraud too? Joba blew the game for us after pettitte pitched a gem in one of his first playoff appearances, does that make him a fraud?

    Pleaeeeease, grow up!! You obviously dont know what a great baseball player and first ballot hall of famer is if they hit you on the head. Arod will be around the yanks for quite a while so you better get used to him winning all the time for the yanks. And not just playoff numbers make a career. Not to mention, the large majority of this team has done absolutely pitiful in the playoffs since the ALCS against the sox in 04. But none of them are being called frauds by you except arod. Why is that?

  727. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Buck is really, really, smart. I mean, really. How many rings does he have? He has a personality of a cardboard box.

  728. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Other than A Rod’s fragile psyche,the book will have zero impact on the Yankees.

    If A Rod musters enough intestinal fortitude to treat this like he did the Fenway fans with the wigs in June ’07,he’ll be fine. The Yanks entered that series 13 1/2 games out of first. They won 2 of 3 largely due to A Rod. He was 4 for 10 with 5 walks, 4 rbi & 5 runs scored. The best was on ESPN’s Sunday Night Baseball when he broke a 5 -5 tie with a 9th inning home run off Papelbon. The look on those wigged fools faces was priceless.

    A Rod has to get past these things. He’s never going to be popular with his peers. These are the same peers that responded to a poll by saying Jeter was over-rated,but responded to another poll in the same year by voting Jeter as one of the players they would most like to play with.

  729. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Two MVP’s = no rings, horrific in the playoffs, horrific w/RISP, and not clutch. Go A Fraud…..

  730. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Wow, we’ve had more debate about Torre’s book then we, as a country, had about going into Iraq.

  731. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    A Fraud cares about one thing, (well maybe two), (or three), Madonna, Kate Hudson, and $$$$ and that is all……..

  732. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    And my girls,

    One more thing – look up arods numbers in the first half of the playoffs up until the ALCS in 2004. And tell me how bad those numbers are. After that point, the entire team has done extremely poorly so you cant all put it on arod. iF you are going to blame something specific, blame our pitching staff over the last three years. They have been tragic at times. And i dont think arod signed a single one of those pitchers – so blame them or cash or even torre but its not arods fault.

  733. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    MYGIRLS

    you must be bored…why dont you put on your richard simmons dvd and burn off some of that excess you know what

  734. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Ru serious you want Bernie back?? His defense if horrible cmon on now. If Buck was given one more year he would have @ 1 ring if not more. Bring him here and watch him turn this ship right. Im sorry buy your comments really dont make sense and not worth my time or anyone elses on this blog

  735. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    “i look at this book as a very interesting development because if arod, cashman, and the new steinbrenners want to earn their yankee stripes, they do need to pick up their game.”

    See? This sandbox silliness. They could be perfect and they wouldn’t “earn” any stripes because its a snooty fraternity by fans and media. Just play the freaking game and win. Thats it. Save all this garbage for Yankeeography and posters.

  736. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    *”In what context would the ARod’s teammates called him AFraud quote be acceptable?”*

    How about “I could tell there was trouble in the clubhouse when Arod’s teammates started calling him AFraud – worse, it was some of the fan favorites from the world series years who were doing it.”

    *”Again, so what if its not a TELL-ALL?”*

    A tell-some?

  737. MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    I have to get my beauty sleep. Nice chat tomorrow. Yanks need another starter and outfielder to contend this year. Phill Pavano Hughes and AJ “Sheets” will be injured at least half the year, thus they need another starter. Matsui, Damon, Nady, and Melky in the outfield…please, I mean seriously. Anyball hit in front of them should be an automatic double.

  738. Donnie Baseball 23 January 25th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    O ya The Yanks are in the middle of the league in term of age not in the bottom 5 really try to get up 2 date on baseball b4 you come back

  739. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Mygirls – do you watch the yankees ever? Are you even a yankees fan? Go learn a thing or two about baseball and then, come back and tell us what you have learned because you clearly, dont know a thing about baseball.

  740. yankeefan91 Arod fan January 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    MYGIRLS

    ur and arod hater u wish u had his talent and he sure hits better den u i guarantee if arod hits in the postseason ull be kissin his butt so shut up really u sound like a 7seven year old winin

  741. Tom January 25th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    I’d welcome the ’95-’03 Bernie back with open arms. Unortunately, time travel has yet to be invented. Move on, if you keep looking back you’ll become a pillar of salt.

  742. Jay B January 25th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    Who cares whether Arod is a fraud or not…all I know is that we have him for the next 9 years, so I hope everybody lays off him this season especially with this non sense that the media is trying to conjure up… because a large part of our success rests on his shoulder believe it or not ripley!!

  743. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    GUYS,

    I know this thread is getting rapid replies but when or if you get a chance, please read my long post above about frank’s post yesterday. I think it is interesting and i spent some time on it. It isnt my usual garbage about sheets or pettitte signing or about cash or the off season. Its comparing 2008 team to the 2007 team. Give it a read if you can. THANKS!

  744. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    “A tell-some?”

    That would be better I guess. LOL

    My point remains if someone wrote a glowing 999 pages about me and the 1,000th page said I was some racist or sexist or liar I wouldn’t be happy about that comment. And I wouldn’t act like it wasn’t said just because 999 pages described me as great.

  745. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    “I appreciate a difference of opinions, I detest character assinations on Yankee players and managers that I feel are special. Especially,when we dont have all the information. I feel with Andy and now Torre you have done that.”

    You and I are different in that way. I don’t particularly care if people trash a player I care about. It doesn’t make me care any less, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I truly don’t get bent out of shape when people differ with my thinking. On some topics it’s a way of life. So be it. I argue my point vociferously, yes, but I realize others may feel as strongly in the other direction. So I give them their due – so long as they don’t decide to personally attack me because I am disagreeing.

    “I have yet to see you go against the Yankee front office.” Yeah, well you weren’t on the NY Times forum when the Yankees got Clemens, nor the entire first year he played for the Yankees, nor when they were allowing David Cone to run down the Yankees, nor do I guess you remember my strong opinion about Ian Kennedy when he was still being trotted out to the mound by the Yankees. So if my going against the Yankee front office is something that is meaningful to you, rest well. I’ve done it.

  746. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    “PRETTY INTERESTING, PLEASE READ IF YOU HAVE THE TIME:”

    dave-
    well, i’m off for the next three months until my seasonal business starts back up, and i don’t have much to read until torre’s book comes out except for ” how to save the world from the coming economic collapse”. but that’s not that important so i’ll give it a go.

  747. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Mygirl

    Did you just say Phil “pavano” Hughes? Okay, thats it, just get out of the blog right now before its passed your bed time. And please dont come back. thanks.

  748. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    MYGIRLS January 25th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    “On that note, it is bed time…..”

    Yes, generally elementary school kids would be going to bed about this time, wouldn’t they?

  749. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    Nick

    levity pleease. It’s been somber around here all day.

  750. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    gayle

    You’re right. What great publicity today’s articles have been for Doubleday!

    I thought the funniest line was by Verducci himself.”Smart people will judge the book upon actually reading it and not reading preliminary reports prior to its publication.”

    No, Tom. If your assertion that Torre’s comments as reported today were taken out of context,smart people will understand that they were snookered today by the entire New York & national media and not read the book at all.

  751. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Drive

    Actually smart people won’t buy the book at all, but rather take it out of the library. :)

  752. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Lara08, I can certainly understand why you would be upset about the negative things the 1,000th page of the book said if you were the subject. But presumably you’re giving examples (racist or sexist or liar) that are inaccurate about you.

    Whether Arod is a fraud in some important way is subjective. That some of his teammates called him that is most likely objective. So it’s probably accurate that the negative thing that is reported to have been said about Arod in this book were really said.

  753. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    dave, I read your post and it was excellent. You bring up an excellent point. Torre’s last year here, the Rays were not a team to be contended with. The competition was so much harder this time around, and but for a few games Girardi would have gotten us there. And all of the things you point out are spot on. He played with an ineffective Hughes and Kennedy, without an injured Wang, with an ineffective Pettitte in the second half, and with revolving other starters. He also contended with Cano’s off season, Melky offering next to nothing, and Jorge being out a good part of the season – not to mention that Sui was lost to us. And he still managed to win 87 games!

    Good God almighty, he did a tremendous job under those circumstances!!!

  754. Aaron(the better Aaron)(KEEP NADY AND SWISH) January 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    http://bleachercreatures43670......hotos.html

  755. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Thanks Trisha,

    I like the warm, fuzzy side of you better. I would put a smiley face if i knew how.

  756. yankeefan91 Arod fan January 25th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    dave

    i always have the time to read ur comments and mostly everybodys comment i like to hear there opinions so sure ill read

  757. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    jennifer,

  758. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    I was discussing this last night. Losing Jorge last year was by far the biggest blow to our season.

  759. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    MYGIRL,

    LOOK AT ARODS STATS IN THE PLAYOFFS BEFORE 2005 AND THEN, PLEASE STOP TALKING!

    He never bat below 308 until the last half of the ALCS in 2004 in which he bat 257 overall – which is not bad at all for a playoff game. That is five different series total. Granted, he was bad in 2005 and 2006 ALDS but he ONLY HAD 15 AND 14 AT BATS in each of them. That is a tiny sample size. Last year, in 2007, he hit 267 which was one of the best averages on the team in that series as EVERYBODY STUNK. He has SEVEN HOMERUNS in the playoffs and 17 rbis. His career batting avg in the playoffs is 279 which is better than average. He also has 21 runs in the playoffs.

    All in all, he has had two miserable playoff series – 2005 and 2006 ALDS out of 8 total in his career. All the other ones he bat 258 or better.

  760. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    dave-

    that wasn’t so bad, but no i don’t agree with you. for one thing cashman chose to go with hughes, kennedy, and joba in the rotation. that was a bad plan from the beginning. it wasn’t bad luck. it was a bad decision.

    would torre have done any better with such a bad rotation handed to him? i don’t know. he tends to like veterans so i think he might have objected. we know girardi didn’t.

  761. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Tarheel -

    I’ll do it for you.

    :)

    Now I’ll put it in quotes. You remove the quotes and you’ll get the smile published. Here are three varities that I know about:

    :) = “:)”

    :D = “:D”

    :lol: = “:lol:”

  762. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    yankeefan91 thanks. Yea if any of you guys have the time, i spent some time writing it and it only take a few minutes. Just tell me what you guys think. It shows how girardi is not all that bad of a manager using the stats from 2007 and 2008.

  763. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    :lol: Thanks

  764. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Hmmm.

    Let me try that again.

    :) = : and )

    :D = : and D

    :lol: = : and lol and :

  765. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Tarheel, anytime!

    ;)

    = ; and )

  766. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Randy I,

    Part of my point was that Girardi was handed a worse team to begin with and cash made no off season acquitions to help the team get better that off season so the team was probably much worse coming in. aDD ON all the injuries and ineffectiveness from cano and melky and I mean all in all, girardi probably did better than torre may have done or at the very least – the same. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and i think an argument could be made either way. Thanks for reading it though.

  767. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    Randy,

    Just for curiosity sake – what veterans do you think torre would have went with that girardi did not? Igawa. I mean there was not that many choices for veteran starting pitching. Girardi was put in a bind from the start because he had very little proven talent at his disposal in the rotation or the pen to try and counter all of those injuries. i JUST DONT really see who torre could have picked that had veteran status in 2008.

  768. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    dave-

    according to many on the blog today torre was just plain lucky for 14 years including his dodger playoffs.

    you’re saying girardi was just plain unlucky.

    maybe we should have stayed with the lucky guy.

  769. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Nick, I’ll take at face value that the things about A-Rod were said. I’m not going to call Joe a liar. I wasn’t there.

    But we all know subjective is not necessarily truth. When people believe subjective like gospel, thereby thinking it gives them insight to a person or situation, its annoying (to me).

    Again, it goes to my other point that as long as we like someone we generally stand by what they say and do while ripping those we don’t like for doing the same.

    Sheffield, for all his left field comments, has also said some pretty solid (difficult to swallow) truths. People didn’t want to hear it because they didn’t like the messenger. Therefore they dismissed the message.

    Its just as easy for me to criticize players I like (such as not wanting to hear what Jorge and Jeter did 9 years ago) when I criticize their 2007 or 2008 seasons.

  770. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Trisha

    Thanks. I wish frank was able to read the post. I wonder what he would have responded with.

    Randy,

    I read your post over and i realized you may have thought i was defending cash for his decisions that off season. That was not my intention – i was just comparing 2007 to 2008 and torre and girardi to try to prove that girardi under the circumstances he was given did just as good if not better than torre would have done. Frank seemed to think according to his post yesterday that the major reason the yanks missed the playoffs or at least a major reason was due to girardi when in fact, i think he did better than torre would have done under a similar set of circumstances. I dont think cash really helped at all make the transition easier for girardi by giving him the weakest yankee team at his disposal in years.

  771. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    Randy

    I dont think it was purely luck that girardi failed. It was also that cash handed him a weaker yankee club – we had major off season acquisitions every single season torre was the head coach – our biggest off season move was hawkins who was miserable. We never had a rebuilding year under torre and cash made it into a partial rebuilding year the first year under girardi by forcing girardi to rely on hughes and kennedy or be in a heck of a lot of trouble. Luck no doubt played a role in the yanks failures last year but my point was not that girardi was unlucky. My point was that if torre was place under the exact same circumstances as last season – i dont think he would have done any better. My point also was that the 2007 team was not much better in the record even though it was a much better club and was facing much easier competition.

  772. JF January 25th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    No one was happier than I was when Rodriguez opted out, and no one sadder when he re-signed. As long as he’s a Yankee, the Yankees won’t be winning any championships.

  773. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    jennifer,

    “Actually smart people won’t buy the book at all, but rather take it out of the library.”

    Bingo! I really dont mean people shouldnt read. My wife has a library science degree and wouldnt appreciate that at all! lol.All I’m saying is that there’s no reason for anyone to profit by gossipmongering.And if the gist of the comments about A Rod and Cashamn are correct,it doesnt matter what context they are written in. It’s gossip.

    The beauty of this blog is that it’s mostly about real Yankee news.From what I’ve been reading this hasnt exactly been its finest hour. If it’s newsworthy, post it and let people respond. If it’s not,don’t. I think we’re all in need of Spring Training to start and some real Yankee news to discuss. The games can’t start soon enough!

  774. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    ” i JUST DONT really see who torre could have picked that had veteran status in 2008.”

    in the winter when cashman decided to not go all out for santana, he could have picked up a veteran pitcher or two. he thought hughes, kennedy , and joba would do the job. he was wrong.

    torre and a more veteran pitching coach than eiland might have pointed that out ahead of time. girardi was known for working with young pitchers. i think he may not have objected to the staff given him. torre did have influence on player acquisitions .

    i think he would have told cashman he wanted some veteran pitching.

  775. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    I haven’t gone back and studied the stats but the biggest difference between 07 and 08 in my recollection (and I did watch or see almost every game from both years) is that in 07 ARod was completely off the charts in terms of hitting in late clutch situations, and in 08 he wasn’t. Plus, the emergence of the Rays in 08.

    We had a ton of injuries both years, but I agree 08 was worse.

  776. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    JF

    why are you even a yankee fan. comments like yours make me laugh.you still going to be a hater when the yankess win in 2009

  777. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    How old is that mygirl person? 16? You would think she wouldnt be so arrogant in her posts about baseball at that age.

  778. Garym(Yanks and More) January 25th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Steve B, I did say I welcome anything. I just see a lot of Paul O’neill in Nady, he has that type of mentality to me, and your right Cano had a terrible year and should of been benched much earlier but he is a young kid and hopefully learned from it, if you are alluding to Arod being the problem well tell me what other third baseman you would want on your team??? The injuries also hurt but I just think it was time to get rid of these guys and start fresh.

  779. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Lara, I was just drawing a distinction between being upset about something in a book that isn’t true (such as your racist/sexist/liar example) and being upset with something that’s unpleasant but probably is true (that Arod’s teammates called him Afraud).

    I’m sure Arod won’t be happy about it either way. But then, who is he to begrudge someone going after a few extra bucks? ;)

    randy l, of all the takes on this matter that I’ve read in this thread, yours is the most curious to me. How does this discussion fit into your “hard-nosed players who really know the game because they got their hands dirty playing it vs. pencil-necked stat geeks and front-office paper-pushers who wouldn’t know a baseball if it rolled up against their tassled loafers” way of looking at things? Just because Torre wrote it and you figure the front office doesn’t like it? Or is there something within the text that you’re aware of…?

  780. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Hughes was a good bet in 2008. He just didn’t work out. Going with Hughes and Kennedy was a pitcher too far, but it wasn’t that clear going into 2008 that that would be true. In fact, at the time, I remember most people thinking it would work out.

    Plus, our payroll in the 2007-2008 offseason was sky-high. There just wasn’t that much room to do anything.

  781. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    JF,

    Come on! You cant be serious. Think about what you are saying. Arod is one of the best players of this generation – look at his numbers. You dont think those will ever translate to a yankees post season? And look at his numbers in the playoffs that are not between 2005 and 2006. Every other season he ranged from good to amazing. I mean if he has done it before, why wont he be able to do it again? And the thing you guys dont seem to realize, is that arod is not the reason for our struggles in the post-season. It was, is and always will be pitching that helps teams win the world series. Granted, clutch hitting plays a role but pitching is crucial and if you want to make sure the yanks win, make sure that CC, Wang and AJ pitch well in the playoffs this year. The clutch hits will come with excellent, dominating arms.

  782. RalphieD January 25th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    only a fool thinks the yankees are better without arod….only a fool….they can do without the off the field stuff but nobody is better offensively at third then him…

  783. Butch Wynegar January 25th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    “torre did have influence on player acquisitions .”

    he talked the Boss out of trading Rivera. that alone should get him in the Hall.

  784. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    “Going with Hughes and Kennedy was a pitcher too far, but it wasn’t that clear going into 2008 that that would be true. In fact, at the time, I remember most people thinking it would work out.”

    randy l was definitely not one of those people!

  785. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Also, don’t blame Cashman for 2008. Going into the season we were the best team.

    We were buried with injuries, plus we had very bad luck with our hitting with RISP.

    That’s right. It wasn’t a manager failure or a moral failure, it was just bad luck.

  786. dave January 25th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Randy,

    If torre had that much clout and influence over cash’s decisions than i guess you are right. But i dont know if torre could influence such a major decision as that – when was the last time cash gave up a prize prospect? This whole new thing about him heading in the youth direction is making him latch onto any prospect that shows the slightest bit of talent with an iron grip. And hughes is cashman’s golden boy, Hughes is basically the one that started cashman’s entire new philosophy of youth is key to winning.I dont think torre would have changed a decision as large as letting go of hughes – perhaps, he would have and if he could have, then, obviously a lot of things change.

    But under the assumption that torre could not influences cash’s off season decision making, i believe that torre wouldnt have done any better than girardi last season. Further, i just find it hard to believe girardi enjoyed the fact that the yanks had the most boring off season in the last decade the off season before he became the manager – i could be wrong but if i was him, i would want any acquisition to help improve the abysmal pitching depth we began the year with last season.

  787. Doreen January 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Speaking as one of those people who thought it could work out, the reason I felt that way was because I believed the Yankees had an offense that could cover, most nights, those difficult starts that Hughes and Kennedy were sure to have. I felt the offense would allow them the leeway to not have to be spot-on from the get-go.

    Two things happened: the offense often did not show up, certainly not to the extent that was anticipated; and the both of them got off to really, really rocky starts. Neither one of the even “lucked into” a win, which could have stemmed the tide a bit. Nothing helps your confidence like a W.

    It’s not like any of us expected Hughes or Kennedy to be dominant pitchers. We all expected growing pains. We didn’t expect stunted growth.

  788. dave January 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Wave,

    I disagree. I think the yankees of 2007 even going in was the weakest yankee team we had had in quite some time. We were placing far too much burden on the shoulder of hughes and kennedy – much more than we should have. We did not make a single decent acquisition that off season to improve anything. We were relying on good seasons for too many people – Moose and Pavano should not have started off the season that high in the rotation. We were extremely lucky that Moose preformed as well as he did but no one expected that at all and the team would have been far worse without it. Granted, we were ravaged with injuries and a ton of bad luck also fell on this club but the team was not the best club in the AL in my opinion even going into the season. The pitching especially was weak and lacked depth from day one. That is why it was so amazing that girardi was able to get the team to 89 wins.

  789. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    dave, exactly what did you want Cashman to do in the winter of 2007-2008? Did you want the payroll to go to $220MM or $230MM? At some point, you have to live with the team you have.

    If Hughes had pitched the way his minor league numbers indicated he could pitch, and if Posada hadn’t gotten hurt and Cano gone into the tank, not to mention Wang and Matsui. my guess is we would have made the playoffs easily.

    You can’t blame Cashman or Girardi. It was just the way the cookie crumbled.

  790. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Pssst… lemee whisper here…I heard it from someone who knows someone who realllly is in the know and they heard it from an unimpeachable source that if A Rod hits like he did in ’07, Teixiera plays like he did last last year, Cano bounces back and the rest of the team stays healthy the 2009 Yankees will be very,very good.And guess what? Nobody will care about Joe Torre’s book!

  791. dave January 25th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Wave,

    I disagree. I think the yankees of 2007 even going in was the weakest yankee team we had had in quite some time. We were placing far too much burden on the shoulder of hughes and kennedy – much more than we should have. We did not make a single decent acquisition that off season to improve anything. We were relying on good seasons for too many people – Moose and Pavano should not have started off the season that high in the rotation. We were extremely lucky that Moose preformed as well as he did but no one expected that at all and the team would have been far worse without it. Granted, we were ravaged with injuries and a ton of bad luck also fell on this club but the team was not the best club in the AL in my opinion even going into the season. The pitching especially was weak and lacked depth from day one.

  792. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    ” Just because Torre wrote it and you figure the front office doesn’t like it?”

    nick in sf-

    i have a great respect for torre because he did get his hands dirty in the game with an almost hall of fame player career playing with players like aaron,spahn,gibson, brock, and carlton. he knows as much as anyone in the game.

    i do think he is going against the unwritten rules of the game as far as what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse, but he obviously knows that yet he said the stuff about arod anyway. that’s interesting and makes me want to read the book.

    i do not have great respect for cashman, levine , or the steinbrenner brothers. i think they have a lot to prove before they earn their yankee stripes.

    torre earned his. whether this administration retires his number or not, his number will be retired. no one can take what he did from him. it’s in the books.

  793. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    My library system has only one library with the book on order. It will be interesting to see if that changes in the next few days.

  794. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    Pete is on Wfan

  795. dave January 25th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    It was bad luck – but the pitching was weak as well. You cant deny that. Our depth was Wang, pettitte, Moose, pavano, hughes, kennedy. Moose was coming off a horrendous season in which the large majority of yankee fans were calling for retirement. Nothing should have been expected from him and he was lined up to be our third starter, Pavano – started opening day which should indicate alot about the depth of the starting pitching. Hughes had almost no major league experience and he was NOT ready for the majors. They babied him for sooo long and then, forced him into the rotation when they needed another arm. And it is still impossible to predict if kennedy would be a major league talent.

    That was the weakest starting staff we had began the season with in a long, long time. And i said it before the season even started – this is not all in hindsight. Yes, injuries made it far, far worse but injuries should be expected – not the amount we had but some should be covered for with depth. Our depth started the year in our rotation which is not good. I NEVER, EVER THOUGHT hughes and kennedy both in the rotation along with pavano would work out. Not even in spring training.

  796. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother January 25th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    This Torre thing might manufacture 1,000 hits today.
    And to think in two weeks or so no one here will even want to talk about it.

    Wait. That might not be true.
    The Andy Pettitte topic still has legs…..long ones unfortunately. (nothing against long legs in most cases here mind you)

    But I’ll say it again. Time heals wounds. And this is a minor scrape. It will be for the most part forgotten soon enough, and won’t affect one way or the other whether Joe’s number is retired some day. It wasn’t happening tomorrow anyway.
    I can’t wait to see how Joe responds to the questioning he’ll get though. (and I know Doreen and Al – he won’t face the full force of ALL the NY media. But one answer to a question is enough for me).

  797. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    randy, I have great respect and affection for Torre too. But I have no idea what’s really in this book. Do you? Why are you looking at it through a “Torre vs. front-office geeks” template?

  798. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Whoa Pete revealed players called him A-Fraud.

  799. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    I’ve met Jim Boutin a few times. At a Yankee’s Old Timer’s Day he even hosted a group of us from the youth baseball league that I run.He’s a great guy and truly genuine.

    But Jimbo,I gotta say “Ball Four” started a genre that is just out of control! lol.

  800. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Torre knows far better than anyone what should be said and what shouldn’t be said.

    Whatever he put in his book, that’s fine. No one should get their nose out of joint about it.

    The man is going to go to the Hall of Fame because of what he did in New York. I think that entitles him to say whatever he feels like saying about his time here. Whatever is in the book, I will always have enormous respect for the man.

    That said, his time was up here. I was all for hiring Girardi. But to criticize Torre for whatever he puts in a book, which none of us has read, is ridiculous.

  801. dave January 25th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Wave,

    I dont know what cashman could have done at this point. i DONT even remember exactly what the options were at the time or who the free agents were. We should not have traded for santana i dont think because we wouldnt have cc and hughes right now. But cash’s job is to figure out how to improve the club to be in the best possible position for the upcoming season – the team even on paper during spring training did not look like a playoff team to me. And i said this in the blog multiple times. Latroy hawkins should not have been our biggest off season acquisition as we needed some sort of starting pitcher.

    We are in somewhat of a similar predicament now. I can say now on paper the team looks like a playoff contender but i still think we dont have enough depth and i see it being a problem in the future. As we didnt do last year and I said we should have done, we need to plan for injuries and ineffectiveness out of the rotation. That is why i have been such a strong proponent of signing pettitte or sHEETS. B/c those signings add to the depth allowing room for injury whereas now we have little room for injury at specific points in the season.

    As you said wave, all those injuries could not have been predicted but they could have been and they could be planned for – by signing an extra pitcher more than we may need. A rotation of CC, wang, AJ, Pettitte and joba is much, much stronger than the current rotation stands Why? Because of the greater depth it gives us with aceves, hughes, kennedy, etc. all being allowed to either stregnthen the bullpen, replace joba when he reaches his limit, replace injuries and develop in the minors until ready.

  802. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    One thing Moose was asked if he would participate in the Old Timers game and he said YES! So it would be curious if they’d invite him back this year.

  803. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Oh and I told the his friend to tell him to come back, that I thought he would still do very well. :-)

  804. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    dave, the pitching was weak. I agree. But there was nothing that could have been done about it. We had Wang, Pettitte and Moose, and we all knew Joba was waiting in the wings. The gamble was that between Hughes and Kennedy, one of them would work out, and together they could hold the fort until Joba moved from relief to starting.

    That was not a bad gamble. Given the offseason payroll, in my opinion it was a very good gamble. The fact that it did not work out was not Cashman’s fault.

  805. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    jennifer, maybe they can just *tell* Moose it’s an Old Timers game against Future Old Timers. And then tell him there’s another one scheduled five days later.

  806. A-Jax January 25th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    LOL Pete throws Arod under the bus on radio too.

  807. jennifer January 25th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    He’s still keeping himself in shape. He might not be picking up the bb. But he is still working out. Tell Cash to get him on the phone. Give him a few weeks when he gets bored. Than call him!!

  808. miggs January 25th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Dave,

    Just curious. How many words per minute can you type?

  809. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    dave, the Yanks could sign CC, AJ and Tex because of all the payroll that came off the books after 2008. That was not true after 2007. There wasn’t any payroll space to fix the problems you correctly identified.

  810. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    I’ll be impressed when Pete can throw other people under the bus who are just as deserving besides A-Rod, Girardi and the newbies.

  811. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    Maybe Jim Bouton will let Torre borrow the title to his Ball Four sequel… “I’m Glad You Didn’t Take It Personally” :)

  812. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    So I suppose today would not be the greatest day to state our Superbowl picks? Ya know, with Torre/Alex-mania going on and all.
    :D

  813. I am Dave's bloody keyboarding finger January 25th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    HELP ME !
    HELLLLLP MEEEEEEEE !

    - – - – - – - – -

    J/K Dave! BPb-lb

  814. miggs January 25th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    “dave, the pitching was weak. I agree. But there was nothing that could have been done about it. We had Wang, Pettitte and Moose, and we all knew Joba was waiting in the wings. The gamble was that between Hughes and Kennedy, one of them would work out, and together they could hold the fort until Joba moved from relief to starting.

    That was not a bad gamble. Given the offseason payroll, in my opinion it was a very good gamble. The fact that it did not work out was not Cashman’s fault.”

    WAve,

    Must respectfully disagree here. They went into ’08 with a whole lot more questions than this year. Moose had a crap 2007 and was pulled from the rotation for a stretch. He was 38 years old. Basically they went into 2008 with 2 reliable starters, Wang and Pettitte.

    Also, you can’t say they could count on Joba. He had never started in the majors. Now, in 2009 you can count on him, as long as he stays healthy. You know he can be successful starting. You didn’t know that last year.

    Add in the maturation of Hughes and Kennedy, the emergence of Aceves and Coke, and you’re in much better shape this year than you were at this time last year. Also, you now have CC, Wang, and AJ in your top 3. Really, if they stay somewhat healthy you can argue they would only need league average starts from the mysterious 4th starter (Joba being the 5th). One rotation spot. 4 or 5 decent candidates. This makes Pettitte a luxury not a necessity.

  815. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    “In what context would the ARod’s teammates called him AFraud quote be acceptable?”

    Versaci reported that Jeter when asked about Arods stolen credit cards said “yeah it’s Afraud” :D

  816. pat January 25th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    NY Times provides some quotes from Verducci’s book and also shares that Kirk Radomski has a book coming out this week and felt the need to talk A-Rod in his book too:

    “He could not stay away from Rodriguez, either, first stating that he had no firsthand knowledge that Rodriguez had used performance-enhancing drugs, but then speculating that he probably had. Radomski did not ruminate about any other high-profile players.”

    The Jose Canseco method of book promotion!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

  817. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    Nick,

    Good point on the context thing way back up the thread. :)

    On AFraud – the point isn’t really whether or not some playes said it – the point is why would Torre make that public now?

    I’m not disputing it was said – and in fact I’m sure there were much worse words used. So what? I’m sure players say bad things about each other all the time. However, when anyone says anything bad about ARod, the media takes it as gospel, without examining the motives of the speaker.

    As Al Leiter has said many times, the unwritten rule is what happens in the locker room stays there. Why would Torre violate that rule, and in particular by taking shots at ARod – the biggest, easist target?

    I would bet two reasons – 1) he never liked ARod in the first place, and 2) he knows it will sell his book.

  818. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    That is a pretty sleazy method of selling a book. Accusing one of the only big hitters in the game not connected to PED’s just to turn a profit. A-Rod has had other level power since he was 19 I hardly doubt his god-given talents.

  819. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    I’m writing a book about physics. I’ll find a way to get Alex in there. LOL

  820. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    miggs, most teams have a run, they get old and then they rebuild.

    The Yanks are not allowed a rebuilding year, but that doesn’t mean the same laws don’t apply.

    Unless the Yanks spent a lot more money, there was no answer to the problems you have correctly identified. The Yanks were already spending vastly more than the next team – there was just no payroll space to fix the pitching.

    You can go back to the Pavano signing and the Johnson trade to see where it started going wrong, but by the winter of 07-08 there was no help for it.

    Hughes was a good bet, and Cashman’s best long-run alternative. I was against the Santana trade then, and in light of this off-season I still think Cashman was correct.

    It just did not work out last year. Sometimes that happens.

  821. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    “For instance, who knew Bernie Williams once forgot his son at Yankee Stadium after a night game and had to call Andy Pettitte to drive him home?”

    Well I for one did not know this. I guess some people need to pay more attention to those “It’s 10pm, do you know where your children are?” announcements on tv.
    Thanks for the link pat.

  822. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    See, I know I’m a hypersensitive whiner but I’d never tell the world that someone forgot their kid at the ballpark. I just feel its not my story to tell.

    As long as Joe gives himself this same attention. Thats what I expect.

  823. pat January 25th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Here’s the NY Times book review too.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

  824. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    “For instance, who knew Bernie Williams once forgot his son at Yankee Stadium after a night game and had to call Andy Pettitte to drive him home? ”

    Wow..this is realllly compelling stuff. Can’t wait for Joe to appear on Entertainment Tonight and explain why he’d have his name associated with something so stupid. I’m sure Bernie appreciated being thrown under the bus too.

  825. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    miggs, I agree that Andy, all things being equal, would be a luxury not a necessity. Without him, we have a very good chance of making the playoffs and even winning the division.

    However, the Yankees this year, I suspect, don’t want just to have a good chance of winning, they want to win. The new stadium and the ticket prices they are counting on practically demand it.

    Given that, what would normally be a luxury may actually be a necessity.

    That said, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. A better center fielder might help as much or more than another veteran starter. We could also use a better back-up catcher.

    But those things don’t grow on trees, and Andy’s available, so I think he’s the best bet.

  826. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    ““In 2000 and 2001, the Yankees would joke among themselves about guys who worked closely with McNamee, especially the ones who showed obvious strength and body type changes,” the authors write, adding: “No one wanted to know the details. These were the days of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t care.’ ””

    This is the kind of crap I don’t like. Players got ripped for not knowing what their teammates were doing. And were said to be either lying or clueless. But the brass gets the pass as far as I’m concerned.

  827. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    “Why are you looking at it through a “Torre vs. front-office geeks” template?”

    nick in sf-

    isn’t that what the front office is trying to be- a data driven management? i do look at it as a power struggle of people who have played the game vs. those that haven’t.

    i think cashman is too full of himself and some self doubt wouldn’t hurt one bit. i do like torre sending a few shots across the present management’s and ownership’s bow.
    i think they need it. they are the ones who didn’t make the playoffs last year afterall, and there’s no guarantee that won’t be followed by a second straight miss.

    at the present, the yankees team is not complete. they need more starting pitching and all the outfield parts don’t fit, and we don’t know if posada can throw.

  828. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing January 25th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    “The Jose Canseco method of book promotion!”

    Isn’t that the truth, Pat? That way it can become “breaking news” about how Radomski “names A-Rod” in his book on PED’s in baseball.

    Because doing that will only help his book sales won’t it?

    Talk about parasitic.

  829. miggs January 25th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Bottom line is I can’t wait for the season to start. I consider myself a very realistic, analytical Yankees fan. I think the 2009 team is stacked. And I can’t wait for all the bitching to stop regarding needing another veteran starter, the worry about CF, and everything else.

    We added 2 fantastic arms and now boast a rotation of 4 guys with plus plus stuff and potential #1 starter status.

    We added Tiexiera. Mark Tiexiera. Also, Nick Swisher. Dynamic offensive weapons.

    The Yankees are going to win a lot of games this year.

  830. Drive 4-5 January 25th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Lara08,

    “the brass gets the pass as far as I’m concerned.”

    Bud Selig and his crackerjack team of “investigators” would have it no other way.

  831. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    “i think they need it. they are the ones who didn’t make the playoffs last year”

    That is an absurd statement. We missed the playoffs once between 1995 and 2008. How many teams can say that?

  832. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    “Bud Selig and his crackerjack team of “investigators” would have it no other way.”

    Right along with the “clueless” GMs and managers.

  833. Al from BK January 25th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Joe T had to drag Bernie into his burn-book? Geez just when you think enough is enough. So much for Torre’s graceful exit 1 year later and hes slinging mud.

  834. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    “Can’t wait for Joe to appear on Entertainment Tonight and explain why he’d have his name associated with something so stupid.”

    Forget Entertainment Tonight. I think this calls for a special episode of Oprah or maybe Jerry Springer?

    :)

  835. Clare January 25th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    Pat,

    Thanks for the links. That Michael Schmidt piece is particularly pathetic, and it’s not the first time he’s bashed ARod.

    He quotes the Canseco hit-job in Vindicated, but fails to mention that Canseco’s first writer backed out of the job because Canseco didn’t have the goods he said he had. He also fails to note that the “source” for Canseco’s hit job, “Max” went public disputing the claims – saying that he never gave ARod steroids. Canseco’s response when “Max” went public was just to say – tell him to call me.

    That’s awful, biased reporting – repeating smears that have already been debunked, without noting the debunking.

    And that quote from the Verducci book is just as bad, implying that NO OTHER Yankee player wanted attention, was ocncerned with status, or “squired strippers.” Give me a break.

  836. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    as a total aside, i can’t believe that mitchell is going to be the envoy for gaza. after the shoddy mitchell report i’d think he had rode off into the sunset. but nope. he”s at it again.

    i guess it helps to have council on foreign relations connections. that’s one hell of an employment agency.

  837. PJH January 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    Boy oh boy. I came here this morning to check out theb log. Joe Torre war was going on. I come back 12 hours later. Same war going on. Spring Training cant start soon enough. Ugggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

  838. Boston Dave January 25th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    “GUYS,

    …please read my long post above about frank’s post yesterday. I think it is interesting and i spent some time on it.”

    dave, you resorting to begging people to read your redundant and long posts?

    maybe we should all follow up our posts with “hey everyone, please read the post i just wrote”… or maybe people will just read them if they are interesting and less than 5000 words.

  839. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    randy, sorry, but did you just say that you look at Joe Torre’s book – the one you haven’t read a word of – as part of a struggle between those who played the game vs. those who haven’t?

    Say what?

    How about this: let’s look at Joe Torre’s book as a power struggle between a publishing house that had a pile of money and a manager who wanted that pile. Advantage: Torre!

    Now we have a power struggle between a publishing house with some books to sell during difficult economic times and a general public it needs to buy those books.

    And a power struggle between a new York tabloid and potential readers.

    And a power struggle between a blogger who likes lots of page hits and comments and the fact that it’s a boring Sunday in January.

    Earlier you wrote “i love it that this book is out because it throws a challenge to who’s really in charge of the game” and “this book is very much about who really knows what matters in the game.”

    When did you read this book????

    “the more i think about this book , even without reading it, i like it that torre is putting it all right out there…”

    Oh!

  840. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Pat, thanks for the NY Times report. It didn’t give me much of a different feel from the Post report. I’m not surprised.

    “Less surprising is Torre’s assertion that General Manager Brian Cashman did not lobby for the Yankees to give Torre a multiyear contract after the 2007 season ended in another first-round playoff loss.”

    But I’m sure it was said with a lot of class…

    ” *But what stands out most about the book are the frank, and often critical, statements that Torre makes about Alex Rodriguez,* who won two Most Valuable Player awards during the four years that Torre was his manager in the Bronx.”

    “Torre makes”. Not “Verducci speaks in the third person”.

    ” *But what Rodriguez is feeling is another issue. He will be in training camp in Tampa, Fla., in a couple of weeks, with a uniform number on his back along with a bull’s eye.* ”

    (And by the way, the Times article was written by a number of reporters, including Tyler Kepner. Maybe this has a little more believability to posters who don’t cotton to the Post?)

    Nice job of throwing people under the bus. Nice job busting on Arod. This “memoir” just had to be written and could not wait! Because… because… because… Well, just because.

  841. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    Trish, stop the madness. You know the Times is a gossip rag. They were all over the A-Rod divorce day after day…. oh, never mind.

  842. trisha - New York Yankees - 2009 World Series Champions January 25th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    :D

  843. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Has Bernie Williams ever fogotten his son at Carnegie Hall? And if someone writes about it, will that be part of a struggle between those who have played classical guitar and those who haven’t?

  844. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Pat, I’m not giving Verducci credit for anything. Did A-Rod pee in his cereal? He’s supposed to be a professional – “supposed to be” being the key words. He’s not – he’s using his computer to do a complete hatchet job on A-Rod. Verducci shouldn’t even bother covering a future HR chase -he will find some way to spin that into an incredibly negative story.

    For that matter, I have no idea why Torre hates Alex so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it has to do with the fact that Alex is a superstar and he actually outshone papa Joe. Torre wanted to be the story and still does.

  845. Zach in Port Jeff January 25th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    on another note…boston has reportedly offered varitek a 1yr 5 mill deal with a player and team option for 2010.

    tek will take it and win comeback player of the year award.

    sorry, the winter is turning me into a pessimist.

  846. miggs January 25th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Anyone have a link to that A Rod article written by Verducci a couple of years ago? I’d love to give it another read. Thanks in advance to anyone who posts the link. Much appreciated.

  847. Lara08 January 25th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    “Has Bernie Williams ever fogotten his son at Carnegie Hall? And if someone writes about it, will that be part of a struggle between those who have played classical guitar and those who haven’t?”

    LMAO…this is the best bed rest I’ve ever had!

  848. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    nick in sf-

    gee sorry if i ruffled your feathers. you want to support cashman and the present management? fine with me.
    how’d that work out last year?

    how’d your predictions work out last year?
    how did mine?

    do you like this team as it’s constructed right now if nothing else is done?
    i don’t. my prediction is if stays as it is, the yankees will not make the playoffs because the pitching staff will implode again because too many starters will be covering for the weak links.

    on the other hand maybe this management will keep at it and put the whole thing together which would make us both happy.

    but like cano said when he was asked about arod playing for the d.r , i’ll believe it when i see it.

  849. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    randy, relax. You know the Yanks are going to sign Andy.

  850. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    miggs-

    This one?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../19/a.rod/

    or this one?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  851. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Nick in SF

    good points about power. 846 comments on a sunday in January!!

  852. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    and randy, there’s only one weak link in the pitching rotation. Are you saying no team has ever won with a rookie fifth starter?

  853. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    Those quotes from Joe make me sick. The MEDIA chose to cover Alex. Alex did not take out a full page ad asking for the attention. This justifies my belief that Torre wanted to be the Big Man on Campus. As soon as A-Rod came on the scene, Joe was no longer the story. Well, Joe, maybe Hollywood will make a story of your life.

    Mike Borzello – whew. Is he supposed to be a friend? What kind of friend makes comments like these about someone they are close to? I don’t blame A-Rod if he feels he can’t trust anyone – he can’t. I’m sick to my stomach.

    As for Radomski, the guy is a sleaze. If ARod used steroids, then I am the President of the United States.

  854. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Miggs
    I posted it about 8000 posts ago.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../18/torre/

  855. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    “And if someone writes about it, will that be part of a struggle between those who have played classical guitar and those who haven’t?”

    are you still mad because you were the last kid picked all the time?

  856. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    randy, what in the name of Roy White are you talking about??

    What in the name of Mickey Rivers does anything I’ve said today have to do with supporting Brian Cashman and the present management? Quotes, please.

    What predictions did I make last year?

    What does anything you’ve said about this book you haven’t read have to do with how I feel about the team as it’s presently constructed (I want them to sign Andy Pettitte)?

    I would just like to know how the contents of a book you haven’t read are some struggle between those who played the game and those who haven’t? Please, do tell.

  857. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    as a total aside, i can’t believe that mitchell is going to be the envoy for gaza. after the shoddy mitchell report i’d think he had rode off into the sunset. but nope. he’’s at it again.
    i guess it helps to have council on foreign relations connections. that’s one hell of an employment agency.
    ———————-
    good aside Randy I
    That’s probably what we should have been riled up about all day. but our blogger doesn’t think baseball is political.

  858. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 25th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    I posted some links and my post is missing. Let’s try this again:

    miggs:

    this one?
    http://tinyurl.com/d4k937

    or this one?

    http://tinyurl.com/nql2f

  859. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    “do you like this team as it’s constructed right now if nothing else is done?
    i don’t. my prediction is if stays as it is, the yankees will not make the playoffs because the pitching staff will implode again because too many starters will be covering for the weak links.”
    ===========================================================

    CC,AJ,Wang and Joba is the best 4 in MLB. even without Andy this team is going all the way in 09
    A Healthy Posada and Matsui with Tex added will make a huge difference

    there is alot of doom and gloom merchants here tonight

  860. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    hm. that line didn’t exactly format the way i planned.

  861. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    wave your hat-
    i hope they sign pettitte or someone like him, and then i’d feel even better if they signed one more inning eating veteran who could go to the bullpen if no one was injured.

    what’s the chance of sabathia, wang, burnett, pettitte, and joba all making most of their starts?
    it’s more likely one of them will miss a large part of the season.

  862. Zach in Port Jeff January 25th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    RE: Mitchell

    I’m not surpised at all. The way Congress has been kissing his rear-end is absolutely sicking.

    Ten bucks he adds a dead Yasir Arafat to the Mitchell Report for peddling HGH throughout the West Bank.

  863. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    boof-
    joba couldn’t even make ten starts without breaking down.
    burnett is always a risk.
    sabathia has been a horse, but his high innings the past few years could be a problem.
    pettitte broke down last year.

    preparing for problems isn’t doom and gloom . it’s having back up plans for your back up plans.

  864. SterlingGirl January 25th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    All of this would just be resolved if Jeter bought an aerobed for Alex, and they can continue their legendary sleep-overs where they eat cheetos, watch bad porn, and trade bad-dressing tips. Or how to pick up vapid, boring beauties with Chin implants, who scream “411″ instead of “911″ in an emergency. I’ve heard some things, my friends. Personality and chemistry have everything to do with everything — you can have a team that plays against each other so well that they win, and ones who play together so perfectly, they lose. It’s a gamble – karma. Joes’ bad karma may have a half-life. I guess we’ll see.

  865. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    “what’s the chance of sabathia, wang, burnett, pettitte, and joba all making most of their starts?
    it’s more likely one of them will miss a large part of the season.”

    randy, if we sign Andy, I’m not worried at all. I’d be perfectly happy having Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy in back of CC, AJ, Wang, Joba and Pettette. Are you kidding me?

    Even if we don’t sign Andy, there’s no crisis. Hughes still has a chance to be good. Plus, we have guys to fill in. Sure, we could have injuries to the staff, but so could the Rays or Boston. It’s the chances you take when you play the game.

    But, I still strongly believe the Yanks will sign Andy for the very reasons you state.

  866. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    I heard “Doom and Gloom” were replacing “lace and Stilleto’ as the new advertisers

  867. Boof Henderson January 25th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Randy

    Cashman has alot of back up plans in Hughes,Kennedy,Aceves,Coke,Horne

  868. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    With Firefox and AdBlock I don’t get Lace and Stilletto. Am I missing something?

  869. miggs January 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Thanks Tarheelyank but I was referring to the Verducci article on A Rod where Torre rips him, it came out a few years back.

    Anyone?

  870. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    This whole thing is so upsetting. It’s been such a great off-season and Alex is being pot-shotted to death.

  871. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    This whole thing is so upsetting. It’s been such a great off-season and Alex is being pot-shotted to death.

  872. Wave Your Hat January 25th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Nothing ARod hasn’t heard before, I’m sure.

  873. Nick in SF January 25th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Betsy: if this little book controversy is too much for Arod’s fragile psyche, wouldn’t something else have ruined things for him eventually anyway?

  874. DT January 25th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    I read the Times review. Here is what I find perplexing.

    Joe Torre was not a super strategist. His forte wasn’t x’s and o’s nor his on the field manner. He wasn’t known for out-thinking the other manager. No one ever called him Billy Martin reincarnated.

    His “strength” was behind the scenes. His calm demeanor. The way he related to players. His clubhouse presence. I remember interviews where Torre even mentioned John Wooden as his influence.

    In the review it makes it sound like after 2001 he didn’t have the right players to win? Too many high price free agents, yada yada yada.

    What happened to the great clubhouse “behind the scenes” motivator and manager? Wasn’t that his strength?

    If his players were saying stuff about Arod – and he knew about it – was does that say about him being a great leader?
    How did he deal with it?

    Francona had the most screwed up player in baseball on his roster. Manny begged out of games, he faked injuries, he said stupid things. He was a giant disruption. Funny, Francona won two championships with him. It couldn’t have been easy. But he got it done.

    Torre had arguably the top player in baseball, but he couldn’t win with him. Maybe they’ll put that on his HOF managerial plaque.

  875. AROD fan January 25th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Ten bucks he adds a dead Yasir Arafat to the Mitchell Report for peddling HGH throughout the West Bank.

    LOL. Line of the night.

  876. Tarheelyank January 25th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    Miggs
    How about this one

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  877. randy l January 25th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    “I would just like to know how the contents of a book you haven’t read are some struggle between those who played the game and those who haven’t? Please, do tell.”

    i started writing on the blog today early in the morning eastern standard time, went ice skating here on cape cod on our unusually frozen ponds for a few hours, and then wrote more words cumulatively than even dave( that’s a lot) about this torre thing right up to this point this evening.

    go back and read everything i said if you want. you’re smart. you’ll figure it out.
    as far as having opinions about a book i haven’t read, you’re right;it’s going to take a full reading to know what torre is really up to, but i suspect he doesn’t have a whole lot of respect for the present yankee management crew that is filled with people who haven’t played the game. if you don’t think that plays into things, you haven’t talked to many players or ex players.

    that’s it for me tonight. to be continued…

  878. Betsy January 25th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Wave Your Hat, has he heard it from his friends? What kind of person is Mike Borzello? Boy, A-Rod has to be hurt by that. Now we have the steroids thing again – It’s sickening.

  879. randy l January 26th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    i lied.

    “Cashman has alot of back up plans in Hughes,Kennedy,Aceves,Coke,Horne”

    boof-

    see 2008.
    these guys should be the back up plan on the back up plan of the back up plan.

  880. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Fair enough, randy. I did read a good amount of your comments in this thread and quoted some back. Could you be, um, projecting, as the kid pop psychologists say?

    Goodnight.

  881. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    Maybe Torre was really trying to motivate Arod :d

  882. AG January 26th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    OMG, I can’t believe people can argue for hours as to whether A-Rod is a douche or not. I didn’t know people were so emotionally invested in Alex Rodriguez. Well, I guess I did. And yeah, maybe it’s not super classy for Joe to write about “A-Fraud,” but it’s also a non-story and makes up probably one paragraph of the entire book.

    I also went to Moose’s dinner thing. It was fun! The Q&A questions were pretty generic, unfortunately, but if anyone has specific questions about the dinner, I’ll be happy to answer them. Everyone there was super nice. I freaking loved his brother.

  883. Betsy January 26th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Nick, I’m not saying A-Rod has a fragile psyche, but it does seem as if this is just more of the same – he’s being piled on. The steroids thing is probably no big deal – I don’t think it has any legs and even Alex’ worst enemies don’t think he used them. I just find this depressing. I’d like to think all of the Yankees are just rolling their eyes at this…..That Bernie story is ludicrous as well. Bernie can’t be too happy about that.

  884. Bo knows January 26th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Torre was handed a powerhouse built by Buck and Stick, all he had to do is be calm and be a good interview. The team policed itself. But then George came back and did what George did, interfered and did stupid. What did he gain by replacing Johnson with Giambi, fire most of the scouts because they made too much money, sign Sheff instead of Vladdy, etc? But the 04 where Joe piched Gordon with a nine run lead or brought in Rivera for a two inning save that was all Joe and it was all dumb. I screamed at the screen then and I let out a whimper even now, as I type this.

  885. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Guys,
    I’m way too ADD to search through this whole thread, but can somebody repost a link to whatever article said that this fascinating tell-all included salacious details about how Bernie forgot to bring his son home from the Stadium one night and had to call and ask Pettitte to do it?

    If true, that makes me livid…WTF did Bernie ever do to Joe to warrant being put on blast like that?? That is so wrong, Bernie is my all time favorite player and if anything I’ve always resented Joe a bit for exposing his decline so badly, playing him in CF and/or RF when a blind man could see he had no business there at that stage in his career. If anything Torre owes Bernie one for making him look like a fool for several years, and this is how he repays him? JFC, with friends like that who needs enemies??

    Retire #51, reuse #6!!!!

  886. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    Betsy, I think the lesson we’ve learned tonight is that if it takes exposing Bernie’s parenting foibles to win the struggle between those who’ve played the game and those who haven’t, well, that’s dirty laundry that had to be aired. Take that Cashman!

  887. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Here is a link to that BBB

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01.....ref=sports

    *crossing fingers that this goes through, since my other posts have not.

  888. Bo knows January 26th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Next we’ll have the name of the condom factory dedicated.. nah, next comment.

  889. Betsy January 26th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01......html?_r=1

    I won’t dispute that the team was badly run from 2001 until Brian took control, but Torre and Verducci would have been far better served leaving out the swipes at Alex and stupid stories like Bernie and his son. I don’t understand why either Tom or Joe would have problems with Alex being ambitious and “motivated by stature and status, particularly when those qualities pertained to himself.In other words, he has an ego. Great, name me any human being, nevermind an athlete, who doesn’t have an ego.

  890. DT January 26th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    I’m surprised the Andy crowd hasn’t used this latest tidbit in their favor.

    We need Andy! Pay him the money!
    Who will drive the forgotten kids home at night?

    If some little tyke gets left in the Bronx at night – will Sheets go pick them up? I think not! ;-)

  891. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Thanks, SA. Wow, I can’t even say what I am thinking about that ridiculous low blow right now cause it would get me banned from this blog for life! Yeah, let’s throw the nicest, most sensitive guy, the biggest sweetheart on the team under the bus for a quick buck or two – WOW!!! Wow…what a miserable, sad, bitter, small man he comes off like in this. A very bad man!!! (wags finger ala Babu Bhatt on Seinfeld)

    RETIRE #51, RECYCLE #6! I think they should give it to ARod or Girardi… :lol:

  892. Betsy January 26th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    I guess like the boys on South Park, I have learned something tonight, Nick!

    Tomorrow’s radio shows should be a hoot, particularly Michael Kay.

    I just want ST to start – is that really too much to ask?

  893. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    I love it when people post that poor Girardi had Pavano as his openning day starter & list injuries to substantiate his poor job as Manager. Well, at least he had Pavano to pitch! LOL! I believe he was suppose to be the key to some of Joe Torre’s years! Torre had Arron Small, Chacon, Rasner, Kennedy, Hughes, Brown, Wells, Wright, among others. The difference is Torre got the most out of them.

    Sure you can say Torre didn’t handle the bullpen or didn’t bunt on the bloody sock. But Torre propped up players, lifted their spirits, and managed them. He didn’t run to his office & hide when they lost! He didn’t lie to the press. He didn’t screw up every young player on the team like Girardi. He didn’t have a 3B coach that couldn’t decide what to do. Torre faced problems & fixed them. Girardi hides. The over under on Girardi is July 1st.

  894. Al from BK January 26th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    The Yanks need Andy because he provides a vet presence in the rotation and he can still pitch a big game. The fact that Hughes and Joba will be on tight PC’s also makes me think we need Andy.

  895. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    DT: LMAO!! No, Sheets certainly ain’t picking up anyone’s forgotten kids, he’ll be much too busy in the MRI tube!

    Thanks to you and the ever amusing Nick in SF for bringing some levity to this situation – much needed for me after the sneak attack on my beloved Bernie!

  896. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Good point, DT. Ben Sheets would totally drive those forgotten children home – *if* he could stay healthy. Cashman has seen his DMV report, um, I mean, his medicals, and the risk is too great.

    Andy, on the other hand, is a gritty carpooler who can be trusted to drive those kids home all year without blocking the progress of the promising carpoolers in our system.

  897. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Just a couple of other things from that Times article -

    “Less surprising is Torre’s assertion that General Manager Brian Cashman did not lobby for the Yankees to give Torre a multiyear contract after the 2007 season ended in another first-round playoff loss.”

    Wow, talk about a sense of entitlement. I’m a little confused as to how this is a show of Cashman “betraying” him as he apparently claims in the book. Why should Cashman have lobbied for the Yankees to give Torre a multiyear extension after Torre did a poor job in his most recent work (07 ALDS) for his employers?

    Now I’m waiting for the tell-alls from Shelley Duncan (with foreword by Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano and Roger Clemens) about the ultimate betrayal of Cashman not demanding a multiyear contract for them.

    Jebus….looks like Torre near the end of his tenure was as much of a ‘primadonna’ as he accused some of his guys of being!

    “Or that the tactical decision he regrets most in those 12 years was not pulling his team off the field when bugs swarmed during Game 2 of the 2007 playoff series in Cleveland and might have cost the Yankees the game.”

    Shocking that the one that finally, mercifully cost him his job is the one he regrets most. The Truth About $aint Joe!
    also…MIGHT have cost us the game?? Might have?? Really now??

  898. Up w/Joba, down w/Joba January 26th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    All along we were told on this blog and elsewhere that we should bow down to this god, Torre.

    Now, the idol has been smashed off its pedestal.

    In the symbolism, Torre was God, Jeter was the angel Michael, and A-rod was Satan.

    Well, now we know it was never that simple. Maybe, along with getting rid of that false idol Torre, we can embrace who we thought to be the devil – A-rod.

  899. Al from BK January 26th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Betsy- I’m with you heres the good news 19 days til P&C.

  900. DT January 26th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don’t hate him cause you aint him!)
    “Or that the tactical decision he regrets most in those 12 years was not pulling his team off the field when bugs swarmed during Game 2 of the 2007 playoff series in Cleveland and might have cost the Yankees the game.”

    The Amazon sites review says “and a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved”
    http://www.amazon.com/Yankee-Y.....0385527403

    It was actually October, not September, but facts shouldn’t get in the way of telling a good story.

  901. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    “Torre had Arron Small, Chacon, Rasner, Kennedy, Hughes, Brown, Wells, Wright, among others. The difference is Torre got the most out of them”

    And who was it who picked Small and Chacon up off the scrap heap again and, in so doing, played a huge role in the Yankees making the playoffs and thus saving Torre’s job that year? Oh yeah, BRIAN CASHMAN, the guy who ‘betrayed’ Joe Torre and ‘didn’t stand behind him’!

    Also, what happened in ’06 when Small and Chacon couldn’t get my grandmother out? How come Torre couldn’t get the most out of them then? What happened, his trademark aura and mystique wear off?

    Man, you Torre apologists are real pieces of work. You want to give Saint Joe all the credit in the world for all the successes he’s ever been involved in (while simultaneously pretending no one else deserves any credit for them) but he gets a free pass for every failure?

    I would love to see you or any of the others defend him gossiping to the press about Bernie like a bitter old lady….

  902. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    “The Amazon sites review says “and a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved””

    Oh, dear god…

    “The lake was angry that day, like an old man trying to send soup back in a deli.”

    GAG ME!!!!

  903. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Bo Knows (Not)

    Torre was handed a team built by Buck & Stick???

    1995 Team
    SP McDowell was the ace & he left.
    SP Melido Perez & he left
    C Stanley was Catcher & he left.
    1B Mattingly was at 1B & he left.
    2B Kelly was at 2B & he left.
    SS Fernandez was at SS & he left demoted.
    LF Polonia was the leadoff hitter & he left.
    U Velarde was Utility & he left.
    Also lost Danny Tartabul.

    Joe Torre had the insight to move Rivera to bullpen as a setup. Jeter to SS. Put Duncan at 2B & Girardi at catcher. Also had faith in Jimmy Key & brought up Mendoza.

    I’m tired of trying to defend a legend to people who make things up. Get over it. Girardi is no Torre. He may eventually be a great Manager, but he is in over his head.

  904. no.27 January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    So I asked what coaches in any sport have had a better run than Torre had while in NY.

    Just to remind everyone what Torre did in NY…
    -Brought the Yankees to the post season in all 12 years as manager.
    -Won 4 World Series rings, including the first championship in 28 years.
    -Won 6 AL Pennants.
    -Finished 1st in the AL East 10 times.
    -Won 2 AL Manager of the Year Awards.
    -2nd all time in Yankee wins.

    Here’s the list of coaches that people responded with: Red Aurbach (sp?), Scotty Bowman, Chuck Knoll, Phil Jackson, Bill Belichik, Pat Riley, Tony LaRussa, and Greg Poppovich.

    I can’t argue with Red Auerbach. He’s probably done more for any one sports organization than anyone ever. He won 9 championships as a coach over 17 years and 7 more as team president/GM. The NBA coach of the year trophy is named after him. If he did this for the Yankees, I’m sure there would still be a few people on this site saying he doesn’t have any class, or that he only won because he Cashman got him the best players.

    Scotty Bowman is another guy who is considered the best coach in the history of his sport. I don’t follow hockey too closely, but his numbers are obviously impressive. He had a ton of success with Montreal, Buffalo, and Detroit, but Torre has more playoff appearances with the Yankees than he has with any of those teams individually. Torre had 1 less championship with the Yankees than Bowman had with Montreal. Bowman is the better coach, but in terms of what he did for 1 organization, it’s pretty comparable with Torre.

    Chuck Knoll might be the best NFL coach of all time. He brought the Steelers as many championships as Torre won with the Yankees (4). He had 23 years to do it and had 7 losing seasons over that time. I would hate to hear what people on this site would say about him if he had 2 losing seasons in the Bronx.

    If Red Auerbach isn’t the best coach in NBA history, Phil Jackson is. His success is recent enough that I think everyone on here should know what he’s done. He left LA for a year after winning 3 championships and wrote a book that got similar press to the one Torre just wrote. Kobe Bryant got the brunt of his criticism. Kobe then called him and asked him to come back and coach him the next offseason.

    I’m not going to go through any of the other coaches, but if what Torre did with the Yankees can ONLY be compared to the best coaches in the history of sports, what the hell is wrong with the people so say they are Yankee fans bashing him?

    He’s not classy? He was nothing but classy his entire time in NY. I bet there are less instances of Torre not being classy than the number of AL Pennants he won.

    Don’t compare him to Girardi because Girardi has been more successful in their first 3 years as managers? Joe Girardi would live on Guantanamo Bay for the next 12 years if he was promised 12 years of success like Torre had in the Bronx.

    REEE DIC yulous

  905. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    Amen 27!!!

  906. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    What I should do is print this blog to a pdf file & quote it come July when Girardi is ticketed out of NY.

  907. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    Just for the record, I like ARod & I am glad he is a Yankee. Sure I’d like to see him have more post season success, but that will come soon. I don’t even dislike Girardi, I just think he isn’t qualified for the job. He was hired because he is the anti-Torre type. Brash, young & decisive. But they found out he was more like Bush & was wrong, stubborn & over his head.

  908. BBB (proud to be an A-Rod fan, don't hate him cause you aint him!) January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    No Ray, what you should do is continue to ignore my 12:42 post because you know you have no answer to my queries. Why does only Torre get credit for Small and Chacon and not Cashman, when Brian is the one who brought them onboard? And why does Torre only get credit for Small and Chacon’s successes in ’05 but not their complete and utter suckitude in ’06? Why don’t you ask Chacon if he feels Torre ‘got the best out of him,’; newsflash brainiac, he hated Torre!!

    but by all means keep ignoring the facts while accusing other people of making stuff up and ranting and raving about the over/under until Girardi gets fired. Wonder how $aint Joe’s Yankee legacy would have been like with the peerless Darrell Rasner making the 3rd most starts on the team in his 1st year managing.

  909. no.27 January 26th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    BBB,

    Give him as much or as little credit for the Yankees run as you like. I actually think that managers get too much credit as well as too much blame, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is 2nd all time in Yankee wins and behind only McCarthy, Stengel, and Mack for World Series Championships in all of baseball.

    You’re now comparing Joe Torre to Shelley Duncan. Torre felt that a 1 year take it or leave it offer for less money wasn’t the start of a good faith negotiation from the team that he managed to the playoffs every single year he was manager and to the World Series 6 times.

  910. Rodderreo January 26th, 2009 at 1:50 am

    AROD doesn’t have to be respected or liked by his teammates. He just needs to hit when it counts.

  911. Jo January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 am

    I love how everyone is turning on the man who brought us 3 consecutive championships. Pack of dogs you are. It’s true how opinions change everyday. Yankee fans, you guys are not.

  912. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 8:40 am

    Jo January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 am

    I love how everyone is turning on the man who brought us 3 consecutive championships. Pack of dogs you are. It’s true how opinions change everyday. Yankee fans, you guys are not.

    =============================================

    Pardon some of us for being Yankee fans and not Saint Joe fans. Torre did bring us championships. He also screwed the pooch on a lot on things too. Wanna give him all the praise for the good, then don’t forget the bad

    Besides, my opinion on the man turned a long time ago. This book business just solidified it. ;)

  913. saucY January 26th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    i might try to read this book. usually don’t have the patience for books though, nowadays.

    pretty much figured it was the Post/DN blowing things out of proportion due to a slow news january… they should’ve had a pinch hitter instead.

  914. bodhisattva January 26th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    Your concept of black and white is rather narrow.

    Torre has made a mistake, and he did so consciously: he let his bitterness affect his judgment, and in the long run, he’s apparently decided the cost to his reputation is worth the profit he stands to make. Worse, his hubris has made him think he’s immune to criticism, but as this board shows – he’s not.

    Making public what was private in his clubhouse, and betraying confidentialities of passed between his players, makes him look unprofessional and self-serving – and makes his stance that he puts the trust of his players first seem like a crock.

    That’s on him, friend.

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