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Nothing ever ends well

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 26, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Today would be a good time to again appreciate what Mike Mussina did last year. He decided to retire, had one of the best seasons of his career and followed through with his plans in an understated, dignified manner.

I write that because this latest news involving Joe Torre is another reminder of how rarely it ends well in sports these days.

Bernie Williams has held a grudge against the Yankees for the longest time because they refused to give him a contract he clearly didn’t deserve. Andy Pettitte went back on his words and is fighting for every dime. We have Roger Clemens, once the greatest pitcher of his generation, living in embarrassed seclusion in Texas hoping federal marshals aren’t knocking on his door.

Doesn’t make Old Timers’ Day in 2015 sound especially fun, does it?

Now we have Torre, the man who restored the luster to a faded powerhouse, prostituting himself for the sake of a book and another few million.

When the smoke clears, the supposedly gory details of The Yankee Years will prove not so gory. Book publicists are good at what they do and some reporters are only too glad to take a baited hook. It beats actually doing any work.

But Torre clearly traded some secrets for money. Nobody wanted to read another warm tale about his brother in surgery or Don Zimmer cracking jokes, so Joe and Tom Verducci threw a few players and team executives into the fire. Verducci is an elegant writer and a terrific reporter. The book will be compelling and 100 percent true.

But that’s not really the point. We wanted Bernie Williams Day at the old Stadium. You’d like to see that old warhorse Clemens in Tampa teaching Phil Hughes how to bust somebody inside. And many Yankee fans would weep at the sight of Torre getting his number retired, fat tears running down his face again as Mo, Jorgie, Tino, Paulie and the Captain gather around.

Good luck with seeing that any time soon. They Yankees might as well give No. 6 to Ramiro Pena in spring training. Joe took his long-simmering feuds public, giving his critics ammunition that will last for years. How often do you think Randy Levine has said, “I told you so” today?

This stuff will not impact the 2009 Yankees for a second. If they do care — and most will not — they’ll pretend they don’t. Alex Rodriguez has been called every name in the book in this town. That some teammates also think he’s a fraud will make him laugh. He’ll be collecting $20 million in 2017 while half of those dopes will be begging to do card shows at some Hilton in Jersey.

It just never ends well. Maybe it’s the money that saps them of their dignity. For others it’s the attention or the lifestyle. But our heroes so rarely walk away at the right time. They kick and scream and claw.

Don’t fool yourself into thinking it will change. It could get very ugly when Derek Jeter’s contract expires. Or if Mo decides he want to keep pitching in 2011. You want to be the guy who tells Posada he can’t catch anymore? Wear his mask when you break that news.

Torre is not the best person I ever covered. I had more pleasant one-on-one conversations with Joe Girardi in a month last season than I had with Torre in a year But Torre understood how his job related to my job better than anybody else. Readers benefited from that. Once again, he is showing how well he knows the media landscape. Torre picked a great writer and served up the details that will sell books by the truckload. The convertible he drives around in those commercials couldn’t stay on the high road.

But we never should have expected it would. Mike Mussina is the exception, not the rule. If there is money to be made, it’s their right to try and make it.

Root for the laundry, that’s the best you can do. Just root for the laundry.

————

Speaking of money, it looks like Pettitte has agreed to take some from the Yankees. A one-year contract is in the works. More on this as it develops.

Comments

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416 Responses to “Nothing ever ends well”

  1. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Well Said Pete.

  2. Ed - American League, prepared to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 26th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    “They Yankees might as well give No. 6 to Ramiro Pena in spring training. ”

    uh…the next Tony Ferendez? lol

  3. Whatever January 26th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Agree 100%, Pete. A childish, greedy and unnecessary move by Torre. Whatever legacy he had with the Yankees is now permanently tarnished as a result. Obviously, that doesn’t mean anything to Torre, but it’s pathethic nonetheless.

  4. gayle January 26th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    very well said

  5. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Hopefully, Yankees fans will refrain from buying this book. I understand that Joe was pissed at how he was treated at the end. However, there is something to be said for being the better man or the better person. Do you think Donnie Baseball has plans to write such a book? I’d bet my entire year’s salary that the thought has never crossed his mind.

    What a lousy way to end a Cinderella story. I hope Joe’s happy because I’m sure none of his true fans are.

  6. duh January 26th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    wow, that was…surprising*.

    well written, Pete. seriously.

    * I don’t mean it was surprising that it was well written. not at all. but the impression i got from Pete’s coverage of Torre’s departure last year would not have lead me to expect this entry.

  7. NO HYPE January 26th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Good post

  8. Greg Costello January 26th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    I would have thought Torre doing something like this would be about as likely as Moose doing something like this.

    So let’s not pat Moose on the back just yet… he’s only been away from the Yankees for a few months.

  9. Hew January 26th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    very well said, Pete. very well said.

  10. matt January 26th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    well said. All people in sports care about these days is the bottom line.

  11. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Pete changed his tune……

  12. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Staying to write the story January 26th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Pete: Damning statement, coming from you…alas, doesn’t mean it’s not true.

  13. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Ugh. Is that the best picture they could find? Pudge Torre. Hey! Is that a shoeprint on his back? About a size 10?

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ends-well/

    Verducci. FWIW Dan Patrick sounds skeptical.

  14. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....erview.mp3

  15. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Laura- I will read it, from the library.

    I can’t see Mike writing a tell all book. He will stay at home in Willliamsport and coach his kids little league teams. Maybe if he gets the itch in a few months we’ll see him again. But I doubt that.

  16. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 26th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    “Anyone thing Hank is calling up Alex and asking him if he wants #6?

    That would be great!! Huge slap in the face to Joe. Although the Saint Joe people will be booing Alex.”

    This was on the page before. Could you imagine the headlines the next day :D

  17. Mehdi da chest bumpa January 26th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    I don’t understand the turn around. I heard that the ‘dirt’ is very little and anything that has been written won’t be big news to anyone. Everyone knows he’s still hurt about the way it ended. So if you take that with a grain of salt I can’t see how people will get offended.

  18. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Oops. Wrong link. The correct one is awaiting moderation.

    Release my audio clip!

    If you want to hear it from the co-horse’s mouth, the website’s in the last thread.

  19. TKinDC January 26th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Great post Pete – It would be great if Joe T. decided he was big enough to look beyond the infighting and personality clashes he had with the brass, but he isn’t.

  20. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Yankees should start working on Jeter’s extension now so it doesn’t come to be an issue in 2 years.

  21. Pel January 26th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Verdouchie is on Francesa right now.

  22. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Hey Brandon, if you were going to copy it over to many times the least you could have done was correct thing to think. :lol:

  23. E-Man January 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    blah. I still think people are overreacting to headlines. I’d rather form my opinion after I read the book.

  24. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    “Yankees should start working on Jeter’s extension now so it doesn’t come to be an issue in 2 years.”

    Umm that would be paying for past achievements, we should stop doing that.

  25. Ed - American League, prepared to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Brandon,

    like Pete said, the Yanks could issue #6 to Ramiro Pena. :lol:

  26. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    ^^^ I don’t know what the heck I was writing there.

    All I meant to say was correct thing to think. :lol:

  27. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Poignant words indeed, Peter.

  28. pat January 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Verducci is on WFAN

  29. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Good post Pete. (Jen, if he is changing his tune, maybe he got to read some of the book. He hadn’t read it as of yesterday.)

    Root for the laundry. Absolutely and unequivocally.

    I’d be thrilled if Pete now said that those of us who were down on the book aren’t necessarily nitwits…

  30. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    “Laura- I will read it, from the library.”

    I understand. I have no interest, even if it is free.

  31. David January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Torre didn’t restore any luster. Gene Michael did that. A blind chimp could have managed the Yankees teams of the late 90s. I’d argue one did.

  32. PittsburghYankeeFan January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Pete

    That’s one of the best things you have ever written, blog or in print.

    You should have your paper publish that as a column.

    PS–Pettitte and the Yanks for one season more was just too good an idea for the club and the player not to happen.

  33. Larry Mahnken January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Olney reporting 1-year $6 million for Pettitte (incentives for another $6 million)

  34. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    According to Tom, he was present at the meeting in Tampa. Apparently he thought he was very clever when he wrote the book, didn’t use the word I. Does he take us for fools?

  35. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Good post Pete

  36. Tim January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Buster Olney is reporting the Yankees are close to a deal with Pettitte it would be 1 year, and 6 million with another 6 million in incentives, possibly making it 12 million. Maybe Pettite learned somethin after all…

  37. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 26th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    “Hey Brandon, if you were going to copy it over to many times the least you could have done was correct thing to think. ”

    “Anyone thing Hank is calling up Alex and asking him if he wants #6?

    That would be great!! Huge slap in the face to Joe. Although the Saint Joe people will be booing Alex.”

    I’m no miracle worker Jenn. perhaps next time you’ll be careful. :lol:

  38. Eric January 26th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    sign Manny and give him number six!!!

  39. David January 26th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Verducci is trying to make nice in an “interview” on SI.com, where he says that it is not a book by Torre, but a third person narrative. If that is the case, perhaps Joe’s name should not be listed as the first author. You can’t have it both ways, Tommy boy.

    While I am disappointed in Joe, Verducci is a toad whose opinion of himself hinders his ability to view the world clearly.

  40. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    “I woke up today and saw the newspapers and I was surprised. My first reaction is to wait to hear or see what’s in the book,” Cashman was quoted as saying on Newsday’s Web site, adding that he was “comfortable” with his relationship with Torre. “I’m glad Joe gave me a call from Hawaii. It certainly made me feel better about what I was reading today.”

  41. YankeesLuv January 26th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Good post Pete, finally came to your senses. ;)

  42. Al from BK(19 days til Spring Training!) January 26th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    “Buster Olney is reporting the Yankees are close to a deal with Pettitte it would be 1 year, and 6 million with another 6 million in incentives, possibly making it 12 million. Maybe Pettite learned somethin after all…”

    Incentive laden deal. Good job Yanks and bad job by Andy.

  43. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    “I understand that Joe was pissed at how he was treated at the end. However, there is something to be said for being the better man or the better person”

    Sadly, there is no “better man” in this matter. Over the past 16 months or so, neither Joe nor the Yankees have covered themselves in glory. In the end though, as Pete says, when things end they usually end badly.

  44. Ed - American League, prepared to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    If the **Dodgers were to face the Yanks during interleagues**, I wonder how the fans would react?

  45. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Francesa is breathing too hard.

  46. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    What is this “third person” crap? That’s just his way of trying to distance himself from it’s contents. What a loser!

  47. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    So Joe doesn’t write it first hand, but he approved the message.

  48. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    So it’s……………..

    Sabathia
    Wang
    Burnett
    Pettitte
    Joba

    Rivera Marte Bruney Coke Robertson Melancon Aceves

    I like it.

  49. El Maestro January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    This is one of the best posts I ever saw on this blog. Well said Pete.

  50. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    I think Pete got his hands on a copy and read some of it. This post is different from what he was saying yesterday.

    Tom is correct at least as far as the excerpt on si.com that the word I was never used. That doesn’t change that likely everything in those 3 pages was from Joe T. It wasn’t from anyone else in that room. Spin it anyway you want. It is Joes thoughts sprinkled with quotes from others.

  51. Anthony January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    This may be the best post Pete’s ever written. Excellent way to sum up my feelings about the way our “heroes” treat us, the fans, who are responsible for what they are or have in the first place. Thanks, Joe. And as for Mattingly, some of his comments last season taking swipes at the Yankees indicate that Joe is rubbing off on him. Joe may find that he’s finally used up his goodwill. The master media manipulator may have finally been revealed as little better than any of the people that he’s used the media to persecute.

  52. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    OT: Zack Greinke extended by the Royals thru the 2012 season. Kudos to Dayton Moore. Very nice move.

  53. Joe Monte January 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Maybe Pettitte is trying to prove the fans wrong saying everything is about money by taking an incentive laden contract? Unlikely, but who knows.

  54. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    “I understand. I have no interest, even if it is free.”

    BINGO.

    About Cashman – if Joe downs him in his book, Cashman is not an idiot. That will definitely put a little distance in their relationship. That’s not necessarily a bad thing for Cashman.

    He also probably knows the real Joe Torre as well as anybody so maybe won’t be surprised that he has bus tire tracks on his arm.

  55. Paulie January 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    It’s a shame Joe’s tenure ended the way it did, but did anyone think a “warm and fuzzzy” relationship would last between he and the brass prior to 07.

    As for Jeter, maybe the Captain has learned a lesson or two from the likes of Mattingly and Mussina, who ended their careers so gracefully.

  56. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Happy endings are just stories that haven’t finished yet.

  57. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Laura- If it was third person why doesn’t the cover say it? Generally speaking does anyone know if the cover says a third person account?

  58. Michael Kei (Igawa) January 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Didn’t Joe Torre get a job with the Dodgers after he refused the job with the Yankees?
    I’d like to read Grady Little’s book…

  59. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Trevor,

    Looks about right. I’d probably keep Veras over D-Rob. I would use Aceves as the long guy.

  60. duh January 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    “Buster Olney is reporting the Yankees are close to a deal with Pettitte it would be 1 year, and 6 million with another 6 million in incentives, possibly making it 12 million.”

    another score for Cashman and his decision not to offer arbitration to Pettitte.

    i won’t be petty enough to go back and link to all the stupid comments that followed this decision, but once again Cashman was right and most of his critics were DEAD WRONG.

    he just saved the Yankees $10M in guaranteed money.

  61. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    About Andy coming back – if he does, and if he ends up making $16 mil, it will be because he earned it. As much as I didn’t want him back, I don’t care how much money he makes – as long as he earns it.

  62. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Giants loss still stings trust me it does :( January 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    “Francesa is breathing too hard.”

    I was saying I can freaking hear his breath through the radio :lol:

  63. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Verducci tap dancing triple time. I’ve lost any respect to him I might have had.

    Verducci = Andrew Morton

    Torre = Princess Diana

  64. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Olney and Rosenthal differ

    However, the deal will include incentives that could push Pettitte close to his 2008 salary of $16 million, the amount he was seeking on a one-year deal.

  65. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Hmmm, isn’t going after every last dollar part of the Yankee Way?

    You can take the manager out of New York…

  66. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Noww batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Verducci is making no sense.

  67. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Sorry link

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....-year-deal

  68. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    Verducci is making no sense.

    …Testing…

  69. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    So Joe doesn’t know what the SWF is in reference too? Didn’t he ask when he went over the book 2-3 times?

  70. migames January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    “Hopefully, Yankees fans will refrain from buying this book. I understand that Joe was pissed at how he was treated at the end. However, there is something to be said for being the better man or the better person. Do you think Donnie Baseball has plans to write such a book? I’d bet my entire year’s salary that the thought has never crossed his mind.”
    ______________

    I dont get how I wouldn’t read the book if I wanted to form my own opinion on the matter. Its your right not to read it, but im gonna read it and come up with my own conclusion.

    And Donnie Baseball is his hitting coach out in LA. So dont assume anything about anyone. And much less, bet your salary

  71. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    “Laura- If it was third person why doesn’t the cover say it? Generally speaking does anyone know if the cover says a third person account?”

    It’s a crock. Verducci and Torre are two cowards. They want to dish the dirt, but try and act like it didn’t solely come from them.

  72. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    “Verducci is making no sense.”

    That’s because there is no sense to be made. He’s trying to put a frame around a smoke screen. Not easy to do!

  73. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    “About Andy coming back – if he does, and if he ends up making $16 mil, it will be because he earned it”

    Truth is that if Pettitte does exactly what he did last year, he’ll probably get every dime of his incentives.

  74. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    trevor

    no ramirez?

  75. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    One your better pieces Pete A…..Pettite re-upping for an easliy attainable 12 million is no surprise actually…..Several here been saying this for awhile….as George Harrison sang, All Things Must Pass “

  76. Joe Monte January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    I stand corrected, the $16 million in total potential pay sounds more accurate w/ the state of the current baseball player. Man, a lot of americans are taking pay cuts and losing their jobs but a guy like Pettitte can’t take a pay cut (if the total comes to $16 mil)???

  77. gayle January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    have to say that francesa is doing a pretty good interview with verducci.

  78. Al from BK(19 days til Spring Training!) January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    1. Sabathia
    2. Wang
    3. Burnett
    4. Pettitte
    5. Chamberlain

    Thats a world series rotation. Best thing about this deal is Hughes gets to stay at AAA and learn to pitch.

  79. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    “It’s a crock. Verducci and Torre are two cowards. They want to dish the dirt, but try and act like it didn’t solely come from them.”

    Yep.

    And I’m liking Francessa for the first time in a long time. Let him press and press and press.

  80. john January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    great post Pete. Joe should thank the Yankees instead bashing him. Wasn’t he a nobody when George made the call to hire him?

  81. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    ‘It’s a crock. Verducci and Torre are two cowards. They want to dish the dirt, but try and act like it didn’t solely come from them.’

    It certainly does sound like a crock.

  82. pat January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Mike is asking the hard questions. Verducci sounds a little shell shocked.

  83. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Didn’t Buster Olney write a book about the Dynasty years w/o throwing people under the bus?

  84. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    I can understand Veras over Robertson but I like what I saw from Robertson last year.
    Both are going to have their chances this year. But I wouldn’t be surprised if one or both are replaced by M. Dunn.

  85. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    I feel like I have to clean out my ears after this Verducci interview

  86. E-Man January 26th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    This is how we got into a certain a war. Too many sheep reading headlines, not reports and refusing to ask questions because their opinions were fully formed.

  87. Fran January 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    If Andy does earn all his incentives that would be great for him and the team.

    Looking forward to hearing Michael Kay at 2PM on his show. He is not a fan of Torre.

  88. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    “Truth is that if Pettitte does exactly what he did last year, he’ll probably get every dime of his incentives.”

    I’d hate to think that his contract says have a good first half and suck in the second, you will earn full incentives. I’d be pretty disappointed in the Yankees!

  89. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Is there an audio version of this new book? Does it end with “I’m Joe Torre and I approve this message?”

  90. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Why can’t verducci admit it’s just about the money? and now he’s saying torre isn’t bitter. puh-leez!!!

  91. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    “Looking forward to hearing Michael Kay at 2PM on his show. He is not a fan of Torre.”

    Damn! I have a meeting at 2. Do they have tapes of the broadcasts on their website Fran?

  92. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    can someone summarize the WFAN interview…can’t get to it from here…

  93. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    ‘I feel like I have to clean out my ears after this Verducci interview’

    I literally would push Gammons aside and punch this guy.

  94. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    Not a fan of Edwar. Outside of that change nothing much else to offer. I much rather Melancon to make the team.

  95. Rockin' Rich January 26th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    One of your best posts ever, Pete. Truly.

  96. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    gayle,

    Dan Patrick and Francessa both asked questions like they wanted to make sure that the wool wasn’t being pulled over their eyes.

    Joe’s motives? He signed the deal in ’07, finished the book in ’08, and publishing in ’09.

    So it’s a public service for Yankee fans?

  97. EricS January 26th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    Well said Pete!

  98. gayle January 26th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    “Torre not bitter when he left he felt relief”

    “Motivation on writing the book was to inform”

    Well those 2 quotes from verducci right now just showed me they are backtracking big time.If his motivation was to inform people then I am a star outfielder for the Yankees.

  99. DT January 26th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    I’m glad Andy is back.
    The best thing about this signing?

    No children of players will be left to fend for themselves in the dark Bronx night now.
    Andy will see to that. He’ll drive them home.

    In fact I think the 2009 Yankee motto should be:
    “2009 – no child left behind”

  100. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    “Didn’t Buster Olney write a book about the Dynasty years w/o throwing people under the bus?”

    Uh, yeah.

    I’m having to wipe my eyes from laughing now. Verducci just said Torre wasn’t bitter when he left the Yankees!!!!!

    :lol:

    :lol:

    :lol:

    :lol:

    What a pair of frauds. Verducci and Princess Diana Torre.

  101. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Okay, now I know it’s BS.

    Torre’s not bitter? Then Torre’s not human.

  102. kd January 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Nick, meant to tell you earlier. Great post. Way to keep left coast yankee fans in the fold.

    torre just shot himself in the foot. but don’t think he didn’t mull it over for a long time. he must really be pissed to ruin his reputation like this. he must have thought about what it would do to his current job. why not wait until he retired from the dodgers?

  103. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    I hope the news about Andy is true. We need to get rid of ST, ignore this Torre bitterness stuff and get back to the business of baseball.

  104. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY PEOPLE!!! BOOKS SHOULD BE BANNED.

  105. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    rid = ready

  106. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    “In fact I think the 2009 Yankee motto should be:
    “2009 – no child left behind” ”

    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  107. YankeesLuv January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Verducci sounds weird, he’s covering up for Torre big time.

  108. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Read the book
    Read the book
    Read the book

    We should have had a “read the book” drinking game today

  109. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    “I’d hate to think that his contract says have a good first half and suck in the second, you will earn full incentives. I’d be pretty disappointed in the Yankees!”

    Incentives will be based on innings pitched and/or # of starts. If he throws 32-33 starts and gets 200+ IP, which he can pretty easily do (he did it last year), he’s going to get 90%-100% of those incentives.

  110. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    “I feel like I have to clean out my ears after this Verducci interview’

    I literally would push Gammons aside and punch this guy.”

    Well maybe elbow aside.

  111. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Is Juan Cruz still an option?

    By the second half:

    7th Cruz
    8th Melancon
    9th Rivera

    ?

  112. Gary January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Thanks for calling it like you see it Pete. It’s posts like these that make me glad I read every one of ‘em. All Torre’s book does is reinforce the fact that he’s a phony, money-grubbing, petty individual that belies the image that he crafted for himself during the dynasty years here in NY. I can’t wait for two things to happen: 1) people en masse boycott this “book” 2) someone else decides to write a tell-all book that turns the tables on Clueless Joe and reveals all of his dirty laundry.

  113. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    I’m having to wipe my eyes from laughing now. Verducci just said Torre wasn’t bitter when he left the Yankees!!!!!

    ========================================

    Yeah. I almost spit out my coffee when I heard that. lol

  114. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    “ALWAYS A PLEASURE, MIKE” oh my god!

  115. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Here’s something that could end well: Andy Pettitte’s tenure as a New York Yankee. Win a World Series, retire, smiles all around, no more bad contract negotiations, everyone happy.

    PAT M: congrats on being right about Pettitte. If these stories are accurate, my Pettitte-signs-by-the-Super-Bowl prediction came true early. You, me, Wave the Hat, Guieseppe Franco, CB… who else was on the record on this?

  116. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    “We should have had a “read the book” drinking game today”

    we all would have died of alcohol poisoning

  117. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    I read “last night of the Yankee dynasty” a few years ago. I don’t recall anything inflammatory being written. I might have to pull it out and re-read it.

  118. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    Francessa just said what I suggested yesterday. King Joe no longer has a league of press up his butt and needed to get his image back into the news. He isn’t holding court in LA the way he did in NY.

    Just my opinion.

  119. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    I know it’s hard to feel sorry for a guy making 32mil a year, but is there another baseball player on this planet more attacked on a regular basis than A-Rod? What did this guy do to deserve this? Did he kill somebody’s dog? Geez!

  120. PittsburghYankeeFan January 26th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    The signing of Pettitte makes the Yankees the strongest team in the AL this year.

    Nobody gets traded until the deadline, when injuries and needs have sorted themselves out. Maybe Nady goes at that point with some pitching for a superstar outfielder. Maybe Melky is an All Star…stranger things have happened.

    The $6 million is brillant. The lux tax won’t be calculated until the end of 09, and trades plus incentives can alter the number quite a bit.

  121. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Joe Torre is going to be in Bookends in Ridgewood NJ. curious if anyone will go.

  122. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Nick in SF……I’ve been away rehabbing on some knee repairs…..Just wanted to tell you how much I dug your guest column the other day….Great stuff man!!!…Everyone is formalating an opinion prior to reading the contents….Actually I hope the book goes into some deatail about the front office machinery…Lonnie and the boys and the Tampa group…..That is far more enlighntening that hoe many players dis like A-Rod’s cologne….

  123. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Tom January 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    “We should have had a “read the book” drinking game today”

    we all would have died of alcohol poisoning

    =========================================

    Hahahaha

    Who is the A-Rod camp? Madonna?

  124. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    so what if Joe doesn’t know about Single White Female. he can’t plead ignorance. if he told verducci to write a book and make me some money, he’s still responsible.

  125. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    I wonder what Joe would think if people brought up his forgotten son. Does he think that would cross the line?

  126. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    DT: you’re kind of freaking me out because you basically do what I do but better. And cheaper too, are you posting from Bangalore??

    I forgot to give you credit, I think your “Andy will drive the kids home” post last night got this deal done.

  127. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    A-Rod camp = someone who say him on the street once and tells everyone about it non-stop.

  128. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    Francesa to get a copy of the book tomorrow. Why do I have a feeling he will be reading it aloud to all of us for 5 hours tomorrow

  129. saucY January 26th, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    getting tired of reading about a book. getting blown out of proportion, IMO…

    go Pettitte! use that pen. sign your name!!!

  130. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    sa- than I won’t have to take it out of the library. :)

  131. jessica January 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    By the way, can someone explain for me about the reference regard of the relationship between A-Rod and Jeter? “Single White Female”-like obsession with Jeter? what does that mean? Thanks a lot. English is not my first language.

  132. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Speaking about the Super Bowl…Nick in SF,,,I jumped all over the Steelers once the number dropped to 6.5

  133. Pettitte to return January 26th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Close to a deal. $6 million guaranteed with incentives that could earn him $12 million total.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3861386

  134. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    jennifer,

    I think I would skip the NY leg of the book junket (sp?).

    If Torre can wiggle out of this one on the radio/tv, I will be impressed.

  135. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    It’s great that Andy’s going to be back with the Yanks. It really helps the pitching staff, and keeping Pettitte in a Yankee uniform is a real plus. Must say I’m pretty happy today.

    We don’t know the details of the contract yet, but assuming the incentives are achievable it looks like Andy and the Yanks split the baby. I don’t think either Andy or the Yanks will have any reasons to hold a grudge, which is good.

    dave-

    I posted this part on the last thread, but you were, I think, the first to suggest an incentive deal would work. You caught a lot of grief for that, and the posters that gave you that grief owe you an apology, IMO.

  136. DT January 26th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Nick in SF
    January 26th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
    DT: you’re kind of freaking me out because you basically do what I do but better. And cheaper too, are you posting from Bangalore??
    I forgot to give you credit, I think your “Andy will drive the kids home” post last night got this deal done.

    Nick – you are still the master, dude. There is room for us both – you don’t have Torre’s ego. ;-)
    (and thanks for not saying the other posters call me Nick-Fraud)

  137. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Rosenthal changed his tune

    “The agreement, which could be reached as soon as Monday, will include incentives that could push the Yankees’ total payout to $12 million, one source said.”

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....-year-deal

  138. randy l January 26th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    “Bernie Williams has held a grudge against the Yankees for the longest time because they refused to give him a contract he clearly didn’t deserve.”

    that was an excellent post pete, but you’re wrong about bernie. he clearly deserved a one year contract as a part time player.

    not giving bernie that contract was the beginning of the end for cashman.

    from your point of view, cashman was right going with younger, cheaper outfielders who would create a new yankees with those outfielders he put in bernie’s spot being the foundation of the new dynasty. right.

    seriously, what was the downside of giving bernie a one year contract as a part time player ? what did the yankees win that they wouldn’t have if bernie would have been signed for one year

    no with bernie, cashman showed a character flaw that will eventually be his downfall.

  139. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Hey Nick – I said Andy would be back!!!!!

    :D

    Well, okay, I didn’t say Andy would be back. BUT – I did suggest that the Yankees were lowballing the offer even more. (You know in an effort to save face but knowing Andy wouldn’t accept it. Who knew????)

    He he he he.

    ;)

  140. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Cardinals 24 Steelers 17

  141. YankeeRay January 26th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Go get Manny and take the f’n spotlight off of Arod already. Enough of this BS.
    Manny will do that and we can win which will remove all aspects of Arod.

    #6 would be funny but I’d rather see Manny wear #6 than Arod as he wouldn’t do that IMO. He’s better off just moving on from the Torre thing.

    It’s time to play ball and win. If people want to talk about us lets give them a real reason. Everyone already hates us so lets throw the haymaker and lock this thing up.

  142. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    trisha, of all the folks posting about Andy, you were the most wrong of all.

  143. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Jessica- There is a movie called single white female. One lady is looking for a roommate, and someone answers the ad who appears to be the perfect one. She moves in and proceeds to dress like her, act like, and steal her boyfriend. She even had the boyfriend fooled. I believe she killed the boyfriend, than attempted to kill the girl whose identity she stole.

  144. Al from BK(19 days til Spring Training!) January 26th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    I could deal with 12 million for Andy id he has a great year.

  145. duh January 26th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    “not giving bernie that contract was the beginning of the end for cashman. ”

    did i miss something? did he die? get fired?

  146. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Trevor,

    Thanks for being the first to predict a Cardinals win. Though it’s highly improbable, I also like the Cardinals in this game.

    I was very surprised how quick the D-line is and how they get into the backfield before the offense even realizes it.

    Big Ben, has been sacked the most times in the last 4 years, so the opportunities may arise.

  147. duh January 26th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    “trisha, of all the folks posting about Andy, you were the most wrong of all.”

    don’t sell yourself short, you were up there too.

    if Cashman offers Pettitte arbitration, the Yankees are going to wind up paying him much more than they did.

    you were wrong, Cash was right.

  148. Garym(Yanks and More) January 26th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Great job Pete, did you get to read the book?? Are you now in agreement with a lot of the posters on here from yesterday??? YOu are right, look at Brett Favre how that ended in Green Bay, just doesn’t usually end well.

  149. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    “trisha, of all the folks posting about Andy, you were the most wrong of all.”

    Yeah so maybe I should lash myself with a whip?

    Actually no I wasn’t MOST WRONG OF ALL. I said I thought the Yankees would definitely rethink bringing him back because of the legal stuff, but I also said if he came back it was going to be for even more of a discount. While I’d like to take credit for coming up with the idea, it was really Joel Sherman who suggested it.

    Anyway, I was wrong. It looks like he’s coming back.

    YAWN!

  150. Joltin' Joe January 26th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Yankee Ray-

    Have to agree with you. Manny in #6 defending best friend Alex. That would just about insure a Crown.

  151. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    um, where was the spoiler alert for that, jennifer???? I had “Single White Female” on deck on my Netflix queue. Now you’ve ruined it! :(

  152. Laura January 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Torre supposedly talks about Jason’s bad defense in the book. Does he think we’re blind? We know the Big G sucked at first. I don’t need to buy the book to learn that.

  153. pat January 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Verducci is a smart guy and Torre has put out enough fires in NY to know how this book would be received and dissected.
    When asked if Joe was comfortable with all the characterizations in the book, Verducci says absolutely.

    I’m not comfortable with the characterizations and I didn’t say any of them.

    Until I see third party narrative or Verducci booked on Letterman, this is Torre’s book for better or worse.

    The only place I’ve seen A-Rod insiders quoted is in the Post. Keep that in mind before you give them much credence.

  154. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    “if Cashman offers Pettitte arbitration, the Yankees are going to wind up paying him much more than they did.

    you were wrong, Cash was right.”

    What planet are you from? I never talked about Andy and arbitration. I don’t think offering Andy arbitration was ever even a topic here.

  155. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Pete’s comments yeterday were a diversionary tactic for today’s Ninja Post.

  156. MD Mike January 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Great post Pete. That is why I visit this blog.

  157. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Incentives aren’t guaranteed money.

    In terms of guaranteed money, Andy got $500,000 more than John Smoltz, a guy coming off major shoulder surgery.

    He got 40% less in guaranteed money because of ego. Hope it was worth it.

    Nick in SF,

    I’ve been a travelling a lot and didn’t get the chance to say, great guest blog post the other day. You have a gift for it and it was a VERY emjoyable read.

    February 1 will mark my 28th year in my career in sports.

    If there is one thing I have learned along the way its, the “jerks”, as deemed by some members of the media are actually good guys, and the “good guys” are usually bad guys.

    There are some exceptions to the rule.

    Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera? Good guys as depicted.

    Bill Bellichick Bad guy. Sorry Pete! lol

    Tony Dungy? All-Time GREAT guy. Perhaps the nicest man in sports. A true class act.

    Joe Torre has always enjoyed more favorable press than his actual persona warranted. He has always been tempermental and has had no problem holding long term grudges toward people.

    Its just who he is.

    He is, the uniformed version of Randy Levine.

    Pete is right. Root for the laundry and hope you get lucky when/if you meet players you admire that they live up to what you think they are.

    More often than not, they will disappoint you these days.

    Its why guys like Moose are rarities in today’s sports environment.

  158. randy l January 26th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    “.Actually I hope the book goes into some deatail about the front office machinery…Lonnie and the boys and the Tampa group…”

    pat m-

    i’m especially interested in hearing about what torre thinks about the tampa faction . that’s who i think supported the old time coaching staff that we don’t see now.

    when i look at the present minor leagues coaching staff, i don’t see the likes of clete boyer, tony cloninger, gil patterson, neil allen, etc.

    on the major league level, i don’t see the likes of mattingly, stottlemyre, bowa, randolph, torre.etc

    … and good luck rehabbing with the knees.

  159. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    “YAWN!”

    trisha, how can you YAWN? According to you, everything the Yanks do is right. You ought to be ecstatic!

  160. Sigmund January 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Wow, Pete, I completely disagree with you. I’m extremely interested in what Torre has to say — especially if it’s not some typical sports-book b.s. I’ve read this blog long enough to know that you’re a real journalist — that is, one that goes after a story when a story has to be told; one that doesn’t cower in the face of faux tradition or some sort of made-up propriety. Frankly, you sound jealous that Verducci was picked and not you.

  161. Jay Hirsch January 26th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Waa Waa Waa! Give her a hanky. Joe is on the same plane as Jose Canseco. Next we will see him on Maury Povich. Can’t wait to see what he says when he is called in the Clemens trial.

  162. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    MLBTR is reporting that Varitek’s contract has incentives based on awards rather than health or playing time.

    What kind of awards would he win? Red Sox player of the week?

    Wasn’t there a big flap about Schilling and his $1M Cy Young bonus clause?

  163. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    “Incentives aren’t guaranteed money.

    In terms of guaranteed money, Andy got $500,000 more than John Smoltz, a guy coming off major shoulder surgery.

    He got 40% less in guaranteed money because of ego. Hope it was worth it.”

    I assume, though, SJ44, you will join me in hoping Andy earns every penny of those incentives as that means he is likely to have maximized his usefulness to the team.

  164. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    BTW, Pete, that was an excellent post.

    Especially like the part about your one on one’s with Girardi.

    I think some people wrongly assume on here you were a Torre Apologist and a Girardi hater. I’ve never felt that was the case. Glad you added that antedote into your post.

    This book really takes the heat off Girardi, IMO. He won’t have to go into the season trying to live up (at least in the fans minds) to “St. Joe”.

    Out of everybody, although he will NEVER admit it, I think Girardi has to be happy with the turn of events this book has created in the last 48 hours. lol

  165. Jason @ IIATMS January 26th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    I love it when I read something and instantly say “man, I wish I wrote that”.

    this is one of those times.

  166. migames January 26th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    “Torre supposedly talks about Jason’s bad defense in the book”

    supposedly he talks on how he cured cancer…read the book instead of all this talk about what might be in the book. People can be so reactionary

  167. YANKS IN 2009 January 26th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    How many of us would get great satisfaction from writing a book about our former employer who we felt underappreciated us?

    Personally, if I felt the way Torre does…I’d take the money & satisfaction and leave the “high road” behind

    I dont understand why this is so hard to fathom…as if we think Torre is actually a saint….

  168. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    “trisha, how can you YAWN? According to you, everything the Yanks do is right. You ought to be ecstatic!”

    Wave, I’m yawning at you, not at the Yankees.

  169. Sigmund January 26th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Anybody who agrees with this post has no clue how journalism really works. Pete writes, “The book will be compelling and 100 percent true.” That is EXACTLY the point.

  170. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    that’s OK, trisha. Doesn’t hurt my feelings any.

  171. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Wave,

    I’ve always said I wanted Andy back to finish his career as a Yankee.

    What I was against is giving him above the market money simply “because”. That’s not how it works these days.

    I’ve stated clearly what I thought the market would be for him and why he was foolish to reject the 10 million in guaranteed money. I said he would never get 10+ million in guaranteed money from anybody else and that turned out to be true.

    Hopefully he pitches well. Overall though, he hurt himself this winter with all of this nonsense.

    I hope he is in better shape than he was coming into ST last year. Especially now that he is going to have to hit incentives to get his money.

  172. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    I think randy l meant the beginning of the end of Cashman’s old contract, which was replaced by a new, higher-paying one. But maybe he meant something else. ;)

    SJ44 and PAT M and kd: thanks for the kind words. I think I was graded on a very steep curve, but I do appreciate all the positive feedback.

  173. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    SJ good take on the Giradi angle.

    Adversity creates oppurtunity. Whats the chance of Arods teammates rallying around him?

  174. m January 26th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Any truth to the rumors that one of the incentives is for Andy to disparage Torre at ST?

    SJ,

    No offense, but in one of your posts you said that you wanted Andy to just go away. Something to do with the dynasty Yankees.

  175. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    “I’ve always said I wanted Andy back to finish his career as a Yankee.”

    Actually, earlier this morning you specifically said you wanted Andy gone.

    But I’m glad you’re on board with Andy now and we can join forces once again in figuring out how best to beat the Rays and the Sox.

  176. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    “How many of us would get great satisfaction from writing a book about our former employer who we felt underappreciated us?”

    Most of us manage to deal with it by talking to our outside-the-office support group. Feeling underappreciated at work is not necessarily a novel concept.

    “Personally, if I felt the way Torre does…I’d take the money & satisfaction and leave the “high road” behind”

    Looks like he did just that. Poor misunderstood Joe. The Yankees really did him wrong during his run of one-and-outs!

    “I dont understand why this is so hard to fathom…as if we think Torre is actually a saint….”

    The problem is he portrayed himself that way to a lot of people (I didn’t see him that way) and so they feel blindsided. The book he wrote before talks lots about “trust” and protecting the people around you. I think he had an “epiphany” on that one!

  177. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    “but once again Cashman was right and most of his critics were DEAD WRONG.”

    If this deal gets done with the reported terms, you definitely have to give Cashman some credit.

    He has made some questionable moves over his career but most of the moves he has made this off-season (knock on wood AJ) look like good ones.

    After the way things have been the past 8 years, I didn’t think I’d see the day where the Yankees would have both a solid MLB team and one of the better farm systems in all of baseball.

    Good times in 09′

  178. TKinDC January 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Girardi might not have to live up to Saint Joe, but he will have to live up to ‘huge streak of making the playoffs’ Joe at the very least ;)

  179. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    “MLBTR is reporting that Varitek’s contract has incentives based on awards rather than health or playing time.”

    For all the talk of Boras being a super agent and all, man does he come out of this looking absolutely awful. His advise has cost Varitek millions. Looks bad on Ramirez too.

  180. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    But wave, congrats sincerely. I know how much you did want Andy back. And as you pointed out, it is totally to our benefit for him to earn every cent that is available to him through incentives.

  181. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    What will the Yankees do about Pettitte in 2010 if he stays healthy, gets the bite on his cutter back and basically “reinvents himself” to win 20 games with an ERA of 3.70 or below (which he is certainly capable of)? Does NYY resign him, let him go?

  182. sunny615 January 26th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Interesting that the Yankees would make an incentive laden contract to Pettitte. That a break from previous incentive free contracts. Both Melky and now Pettitte (altho Melk’s incentives are via plate appearance only and not actualy performance). I wonder if Pettitte’s long standing relationship is why the Yanks allowed him the opportunity to “earn” his $12-16 mil and broke from the incentive laden ban…?

  183. StandingO'Neill January 26th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Nobody will remember this in 5 years when Torre makes an appearance at Yankee Stadium after he’s retired from managing.

    I’m sure there will be a lot of hooting and hollering now, but it all works out in the end. Nobody seems to remember the Yogi Berra managed the Mets once (which people today would say tarnishes his “true yankee” image), or that David Wells pitched for the Redsox, or that Roger Maris refused to return to an old timers day for about a decade.

    Just wait and watch, Torre will return to a standing ovation sometime in the next decade. Time heals all wounds, don’t forget that.

  184. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Thanks, Trisha. I appreciate that. :)

  185. m January 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Boston Dave,

    Thoughts on Marbury saying the C’s are going to sign him?

  186. randy l January 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    “Pete is right. Root for the laundry and hope you get lucky when/if you meet players you admire that they live up to what you think they are.
    More often than not, they will disappoint you these days.
    Its why guys like Moose are rarities in today’s sports environment.”

    sj44-

    i’ve got to disagree with you again on this concerning the laundry. i absolutely do not root for the laundry. i root for a special quality that has often been in this laundry.

    mussina did not have that special quality i root for. as far as i’m concerned mussina refused to pitch inside for years and threw away his own and yankee wins with his stubborness and personal indulgence..

    only when he was told it was the bullpen or else, did he pitch inside again and have a great final year. it’s no coincidence that the yankees never won a championship with mussina. other things were more important to him.

    mussina may be a nice guy, but a champion? i don’t think so. that said, he was so talented i think he is hall of fame caliber. just not deserving of having his yankee number retired.

    it’s like the supreme court judge and pornography. you know it when you see it.
    there are players that wear the laundry that have that special something that deserves rooting for and this is what the yankees are all about.

    arod doesn’t have it yet, mussina didn’t have it. jeter, posada, williams, and mo do.

    so i say root for the laundry that knows what being a yankee is all about. root for the rest to go somewhere else.

  187. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Nick I’m sorry :( :lol:

  188. sunny615 January 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    I believe if Pettitte returns to form in 09 and re-establishes himself as a front end starter, AND somehow Joba or Hughes fails to up their innings in 09, then yes, I can see Cash resigning Pettitte for another year to give Joba/Hughes another year to stretch their innings cap.

  189. Tarheelyank January 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    “How many of us would get great satisfaction from writing a book about our former employer who we felt underappreciated us?

    Personally, if I felt the way Torre does…I’d take the money & satisfaction and leave the “high road” behind

    I dont understand why this is so hard to fathom…as if we think Torre is actually a saint….

    If I may quote somebody

    “But that’s not really the point. We wanted Bernie Williams Day at the old Stadium. You’d like to see that old warhorse Clemens in Tampa teaching Phil Hughes how to bust somebody inside. And many Yankee fans would weep at the sight of Torre getting his number retired, fat tears running down his face again as Mo, Jorgie, Tino, Paulie and the Captain gather around.”

  190. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    I don’t remember too many people that said they didn’t want Andy back. The only debate was over the $$.

    Some people thought the Yankees should cave in and just give him $12 or more because they needed a final starter. Some people thought the Yankees, having the only offer on the table, should wait.

    I think the proposed solution is a great compromise between those two.

  191. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    Kay time

  192. E-Man January 26th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    “This book really takes the heat off Girardi, IMO. He won’t have to go into the season trying to live up (at least in the fans minds) to “St. Joe”.”

    LOL!! They spent almost HALF A BILLION dollars on three players. Once the season starts, this book is just another offseason memory.

  193. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Mel and Wave,

    If this thing was going to drag out for another week then, yes, I would have rather see him move on. At some point, you have to resolve the issue of finding a veteran 4th starter for the rotation.

    Prior to today, I’ve stated that it would be nice for him to finish his career in NY under the right terms.

    My deal is simple. You can’t pay for the Dynasty Years anymore. That’s always been one of the Yankees biggest problems, paying for the past.

    Brian Cashman, who gets more grief from fans than he deserves, made a fair offer to Andy. He respected him enough to see him PERSONALLY to tell him their plans and why they are doing what they are doing. I can tell you, not a lot of GM’s do that with their veteran players anymore.

    I just think the guy deserved a better shake than Andy going back on his word and fighting for the last nickel on the table. Nickels I might add he didn’t earn off his performance last year.

    Its done now and hopefully he pitches well.

    It would also be nice if he doesn’t get dragged into the Clemens crap anymore.

    I think this team has had enough nonsense to deal with in the past few years. It would be nice if its just about baseball from hereon out.

  194. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “What will the Yankees do about Pettitte in 2010 if he stays healthy, gets the bite on his cutter back and basically “reinvents himself” to win 20 games with an ERA of 3.70 or below (which he is certainly capable of)? Does NYY resign him, let him go?”

    That, as they say, is a problem you’d like to have.

  195. Ben Jones January 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Well written, Pete. Now, go back and enjoy some more time off so you give us plenty at ST.

    (Keep up the outstanding work.)

  196. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    hey mel,

    I’d rather not see Marbury on the C’s. They are winning games because of their team play, not guys who are great 1:1 players.

    I do think the C’s need another piece to compete with the Lakers (and Cavs) this season but I don’t think Marbury is that guy.

  197. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    It’s ok, jennifer. Maybe I can watch it like “Roshomon” and see a whole different movie.

    Hey, Andy will be a huge assett to the Yankees if he just equals his performance last season. If he improves on that – which is to say, if he returns to form – out of the 4th spot in the rotation, look out. This whole deal is win-win-win. Unless it isn’t. But it looks great on January 26th.

  198. G. Love January 26th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Hope this Andy deal gets done.

    He’s the perfect fit for the 4 spot and for the locker room. He can give perspective and support to CC, AJ, Wang and Joba that no one else can if they need it.

    Most of all, it gives us a 2nd lefty in the rotation and now 3/5 of the rotation are homegrown products something all the Yankee bashers hate to admit.

    A rotation on this date of CC, AJ, Wang, Andy, Joba is incredible.

    There isn’t one injury reclamation project in that 5-some and if one of them go down, then the kids at AAA will get their chances to show what they can do without the pressure and expectation of being handed a rotation spot.

    As for Torre, I’m pretty stunned he wrote this book. He doesn’t need the money. It’s just strange.

    It puts a tarnish on what he accomplished here and like everyone else has said, he can forget about getting #6 retired.

    I’m sure he’d tell you he doesn’t care about that, but on the inside I’m sure he cares a lot.

    Bad decision Joe. Wish you could get a do-over.

    And if he blames Verducci for misquoting him or some nonsense I hope reporters crush him for using that old card.

  199. Pel January 26th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    >Torre supposedly talks about Jason’s bad defense in
    >the book. Does he think we’re blind? We know the Big
    >G sucked at first. I don’t need to buy the book to learn that.

    NO no no no no no… you have to read the book…YOU HAVE…TO READ…THE BOOK!!!!

    THE BOOK. READ IT. YOU HAVE TO.

    /AD NAUSEAM

  200. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    FWIW, the piece from the NYT review of this book that Francessa read on air makes this thing sound a lot less evil on the whole than the bits and pieces offered in the Post.

  201. randy l January 26th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    “I think randy l meant the beginning of the end of Cashman’s old contract, which was replaced by a new, higher-paying one. But maybe he meant something else.”

    i can’t wait till i hear the beginning of the end of your jokes : )

  202. Wangawa January 26th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    So happy that Andy is coming back. Our starting rotation is ready to go now.

  203. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    SJ44,

    I agree with your position on this but surely you must like the idea of an incentive-based deal for Andy.

    It looks like it would be a win-win for both sides.

    Andy, along with every other FA (Varitek, Manny, etc), misread the market bigtime. It’s just taking them a while to realize that. Sure, Andy has an ego and I think the Yankees are doing him a favor by giving him this type of deal. Of course, it helps them in the end as well.

  204. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    is anyone else streaming the Michael Kay show – all of a sudden it went to commercials…very weird

  205. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Sorry, randy, but my jokes are part of that struggle between those who’ve played the game and those who haven’t. By any means necessary, you know?

    ;)

  206. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Anyone hearing Micheal Kay ?

  207. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    One more: Juan Cruz, and we should be good to roll.

  208. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    what is going on – now it is this random music…

  209. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Boston Dave,

    The deal got done and its a fair deal for both sides. The Yankees didn’t get hosed paying for past performance and Andy can save some face and not look like a complete heel by going back on his word and playing somewhere else.

    I just hope he’s healthy. They need his innings and his leadership bigtime this year.

    GB,

    As Wave said, if Andy puts up those numbers, he gets back to making 16 million again. Whether its with the Yankees or somewhere else.

    Its definitely a “problem”the Yankees would love to have.

  210. pat January 26th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    “Nobody will remember this in 5 years when Torre makes an appearance at Yankee Stadium after he’s retired from managing.”

    A-Rod might and he’ll be there.

  211. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Rishi-happened to me too

  212. Crosetti January 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Congratulations Pete for a very clever article, which helps me to understand completely the side not-so brilliant, but understably human, of Torre.

    Baseball personnel, I must remind time and time again, are mostly like circus-business people, going from town to town looking for an easy dollar, without regards or respect for the people who likes baseball.

  213. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    and now he is back – that is TOOOOOOOOOO ANNOYING

  214. Vince January 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    I agree with Pete. Well put.

  215. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    I liked your post, Pete. Makes me sad, the whole thing, really.

  216. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....id=3480300

    More excerpts.

  217. Luds January 26th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Is the book really that bad Pete?

  218. miggs January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Pettitte for 6 million? LOVE IT.

    Serves the guy right for trying to play hardball with the Yankees.

    And some posters on here wanted to give him 12-13 million.

    Thank god they aren’t the GM.

    Pettitte is getting what he deserves, he’s worth about 6 million.

    I especially like how his pride cost him an extra 4 million on top of the 6 million paycut he was already getting.

    Now the team is formidable. Look out!

  219. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    I can’t wait to read Dallas Green’s book about his time managing the Yankees.

    It will be about as long as one of Dave’s posts.

  220. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Juan Cruz would be a nice addition (assuming it’s a favorable deal) but –

    I originally thought that if the Yanks re-signed Andy that they couldn’t sign any more type “A” guys.

    Then I read that because of the large # of type-”A” guys that there was no limit.

    Does anyone know the actual rule?

    Could the Yanks sign Juan Cruz and only give up a 4th rounder? Or are they maxed-out with type “A” guys?

  221. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    An incentive contract may suit Andy very well. We don’t know how it is structured, but he could well feel he will do better than the $10MM originally offered. It’s hard to say up front who “won” and who “lost”. That’s the beauty of incentive contracts.

    Personally, I don’t care what Andy signed for. As Yankee fans we should all be glad he is going to be back.

  222. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Is there an extra dollar that Arod wouldn’t cross the street to grab? I suspect he’ll find room in his heart to forgive Joe, or at least to not give a darn either way.

    Either way, winning without Torre will be the best revenge for everyone.

  223. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    miggs, if Andy only gets the $6MM the Yanks will have lost. Rather, you should hope Andy maxes out.

  224. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Hey I hope Andy reaches that 12 million or 16 million number. If he does that means he was healthy and had a great season!

  225. Drew January 26th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    In the immortal words of Brian Flanagan, “All things end badly, or else they wouldn’t end.”

  226. Vincent January 26th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Can we stop talking about Sheets yet?

  227. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    “Either way, winning without Torre will be the best revenge for everyone.”

    well said Nick!!

  228. Dr. Cox January 26th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    how so quickly we can turn on a man that brought us 4 championships, 6 pennants post season appearances in every year he was there and someone who was run out of town.

    shame.

  229. walein January 26th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    I think you should refrain from writing a piece about how Torre wasn’t able to “stay above it” until you’ve read the book. There hasn’t been much in the way of revelations as you yourself pointed out yesterday.

  230. miggs January 26th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Wave since we don’t know the details of the contract its probably best to wait to hear those before we pass judgement.

    6 million guaranteed is phenomenal, whether you think so or not.

    Once the details of the incentives come out we can speculate on whether its good for him to hit them or not.

  231. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Dr. Did you forget the 8 years after that? Bad decision after bad decision.

  232. StandingO'Neill January 26th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    “A-Rod might and he’ll be there”

    Obviously I meant the fans Pat.

  233. MaineYankee January 26th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Randy

    I’m not sure that Torre was real fond of the Tampa group. I’m not sure but I think they are the ones that stuck him with Tony Womack. Thats the one that comes to mind but I think there was others as well.

  234. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Ask Scott Proctor what he thinks of Joe Torre

  235. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Glad it looks like Pettitte’s back in the fold.

  236. Say it ain't so January 26th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    Is there a link to listen to Kay’s show online?

  237. MikeEff January 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Rishi–i’ve noticed that 1050 does that often in the streaming version…good to see you

  238. jessica January 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Thanks,jennifer

    You explained very well and clearly.

  239. MikeEff January 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    say it aint so

    you can google 150 ESPN New York to listen or listen through I Tunes

  240. MikeEff January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    1050 that is

  241. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “how so quickly we can turn on a man that brought us 4 championships”

    That’s generally what happens when you get stabbed in the back. I’m reserving judgment until the book comes out but with the media reports yesterday… it has lead most fans to feel as if they are being betrayed.

    jennifer, I dont blame Torre for his bad decisions anymore. The Yankees could have fired him. I blame him for selling off his time with the Yankees. He is going to lose some fans over this and tarnish his great reputation among most Yankee fans. He surely knew that… but he didn’t care.

  242. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Say it ain’t so-

    Left-hand corner:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/1050espnradio/

  243. carl January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....listenlive

    MKay show

  244. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    He didn’t bring them championships alone. That’s the point in all this.

    He also cost them a few. Namely, 2003, 2004 and 2006, with some awful decisionmaking.

    That’s the rub some of us have with Torre. He “won” the championships. Yet, other people “lost” them. Doesn’t seem to be an accurate appraisal of what actually happened.

    Its real simple. What goes on in the locker room should stay in the locker room.

    He hated Arod. He embarrassed him in that 2006 article, batted him 8th in an elimination game (a firable offense, IMO) and made him out to be the scapegoat.

    He STILL can’t let it go. To me, he’s got more obscessed with Arod than Arod is with him. Kind of sad, actually.

    I can’t wait to see how guys in his new locker room view him now.

    I hope the money to sellout his clubhouse was worth it.

    His star is more tarnished today than it was prior to this book release.

  245. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “6 million guaranteed is phenomenal, whether you think so or not.”

    Don’t think I ever said one way or the other. I did say at least once that the Yanks make plenty and that I didn’t care how Hank, Hal and Andy split it up.

    I do think it’s bad karma to think that the $6MM is phenomenal if Andy doesn’t pan out, don’t you agree?

  246. StandingO'Neill January 26th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    “Ask Scott Proctor what he thinks of Joe Torre”

    I bet Proctor is a big fan of Torre. Sure he pitched him a lot, but thats better than being burried in the back of the pen or in the minor leagues.

  247. ANSKY January 26th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    I have absolutely zero interest in a mud-slinging book, or a mud-slinging volley about a book (or article) be it a mud slinging one or not. I might have read the Torre book if I hadn’t skimmed over all these rave reviews. Now, dats the end of dat for me.

    Good to hear Pettitte & Yanks might work something out that could be good for both sides. It sounded like if he declines from last year’s mediocre end result, he could make less than the $10M offer and the Yanks didn’t spend too much. If he pitches well he could make more than the $10M, perhaps begin to approach his old salary, and the Yanks are happy with the results too.

    In very general terms it seems fair to me.

  248. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    “Glad it looks like Pettitte’s back in the fold.”

    Doreen, good news indeed. I just hope it’s the last time we see the words “Pettitte” and “back” in the same sentence this season.

  249. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Thanks MikeEff…they just did it again right in teh middle of a sentence no less.

    I’m around, just reading a lot more than actually posting around here. Sometimes it’s a little bit to hostile :), but more often than not work gets in the way.

    Can’t wait for the season to just get started already!

  250. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Kay’s streaming sucks today. He’s about to talk about Bowa thoughts and it goes to commercials.

  251. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    i don’t remember these random commercials before, either

  252. Al from BK(19 days til Spring Training!) January 26th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Not many teams have a number 4 starter who can win 15 games and pitch big in October.

  253. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Jessica- No problem happy to help.

  254. Ed - American League, prepare to be scared! CC, Aj, and MT!! January 26th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    “Kay’s streaming sucks today. He’s about to talk about Bowa thoughts and it goes to commercials.”

    so im not the only one.

  255. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    “I hope the money to sellout his clubhouse was worth it.

    His star is more tarnished today than it was prior to this book release.”

    that’s what is so sad. Joe knew this and did it anyway. His years, and legacy, in NY obviously mean very little to him.

    The sense or need for revenge can do that to ya…

  256. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    This 1050 ESPN radio stream sucks

  257. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    So add Joe Torre to leaks in the Yankees organization

    Micheal Kay
    Joe Torre
    Mike Borzello
    who else ?

  258. Boston Dave January 26th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Looks like it’s a done deal

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....with_.html

    “Pettitte will apparently accept a base salary between $5-6 million, with innings-pitched and days-on-the-roster incentives that could raise the value of the contract to $12 million.”

  259. murphydog January 26th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    So much depends on which way the wind blows. Torre used to be criticized savagely here for coddling veterans and being unable to motivate the team. So now he lets it hang out regarding some of the unmotivated, coddled veterans. For example, Torre calls out the giant cheater Giambi the Steroid Guy and now Joe’s the bad guy. Torre comments on media whore and classic “me-first” player A-Rod and that’s a personal foul? A-Rod has been holding the spotlight to his own face for so long he has skin damage. But when Torre says anything about him, it’s not right. People complain about how Torre threw Pavano to the wolves? Do you think Pavano would have been treated better or differently by Casey Stengel or Billy Martin or even Yogi? Maybe. Those guys probaby would have beaten Pavano with their bare hands.

    Torre is only now saying what everybody was already whispering in the papers and on ESPN anyway. Why the Torre bloodlust? Because he came out, is wiling to be held accountable and said it for the record instead of letting the rumors circulate?

    Name one “play the game right” player Torre supposedly attacked. Bet there aren’t any. It matters who was picked on and who wasn’t; these guys were beggin’ for it.

  260. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Steve that is cause everyone is listening knowing that Kay dislikes Joe.

    So far he is spot on; said it might not be Joe’s quotes, but it is his voice. That he won’t take shots at Jeter, Posada, Mo or Pettitte.

  261. longtime January 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Mike is back on the “jobar” in the bullpen…………

    give it up

  262. Steve B January 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    “He also cost them a few. Namely, 2003, 2004 and 2006, with some awful decisionmaking.”

    C’mon! Just as he didn’t win 4 alone, he didn’t lose 2003, 2004, and 2006 alone either. Also worth noting, the awful decision making in the organization was not confined to Torre.

    I don’t necessarily like the way he played this, but some measurment in these statements is needed.

  263. Phil January 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Getting Andy back scotchguards the rotation. Now, only Joba will have to have his innings watched.

    As per Verducci. Writing in the 3rd person certainly allows them to present opinions and perceptions as fact. Further, if he did hundreds of interviews with other people, why is Joe Torre the only listed co-author?

  264. Say it ain't so January 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Thanks for the link, everyone :)

  265. MikeEff January 26th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    yeah Rishi–they do a terrible job with the stream…thye Fan does a great job, but…francessa….ummm who cares…

  266. li January 26th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Really great post, Pete!

  267. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    That’s my point. You win and lose as a team. Something that Torre often forgets.

    Its why I don’t buy the “Torre won those titles” nonsense.

    Michael Kay will air him out today. He knows the real Torre.

    If you are going to write a book, then he should expect folks to tell their stories too about Torre.

    They aren’t all complimentary.

  268. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    With Andy signed up and the pitching put to bed (I assume), do you think the Yanks will still try to trade Nady? If they do, will they pocket the money or put it back into CF or the bench?

    I don’t think Cashman’s done yet.

  269. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    They’ve got me hunting around the house looking for a radio.

  270. pat January 26th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    “Michael Kay will air him out today.”

    I believe he just did.

  271. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    ‘Mike is back on the “jobar” in the bullpen…………’

    He sings that to sleep every night.

  272. William Buckner January 26th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Drew,
    “In the immortal words of Brian Flanagan, “All things end badly, or else they wouldn’t end.””

    Wasn’t it Doug Coglan that said that? Otherwise, spot on with that point.

  273. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    “I can’t wait to see how guys in his new locker room view him now.”

    Very true, but I suspect “The Dodger Years” won’t have too much appeal. I bet Manny won’t care much either way! “Book? What book?”

  274. pat January 26th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    The A-Fraud passage
    Chapter 8, p. 245
    “Back in 2004, at first Rodriguez did his best to try and fit into the Yankee culture – his cloying, B Grade actor best. He slathered on the polish. People in the clubhouse, including teammates and support personnel were calling him ‘A-Fraud’ behind his back.

    “He was phony,” said Mike Borzello, the former Yankees bullpen coach and one of Rodriguez’ close friends, “and he knew he was phony. But he didn’t know how to be anything else at that time. Then he started to realize what it is all about and what people feed off of, and thought, ‘Hey, I can really be myself.’”

    A-Rod and Jeter relationship
    Chapter 8, p. 252
    “In his own way, Rodriguez was fascinated with Jeter, as if trying to figure out what it was about Jeter that could have bought him so much goodwill. The inside joke in the clubhouse was that Rodriguez’ pre-occupation with Jeter recalled the 1992 film, ‘Single White Female,’ in which a woman becomes obsessed with her roommate to the point of dressing like her.”

    espnradio.com

  275. Espresso January 26th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Based on the excerpts out this morning, it doesn’t sound all that bad. So Arod came to NY and had a hard time adjusting? It also says that he came around. He was studying Jeter to see how he handles it all. Is there an athlete who interacts with the fan base better than Jeter, in any sport? Arod appears to work hard at every aspect of the game.

    I think its only stuff for people who already want to bash Arod. I see a player who is ruthlessly devoted to being the best he can be. I want that on my team. Think about it in another profession, do you want the surgeon who is friendly and you get along with, or the one who is cocky and never stops looking for a way to get better. I know who I’m going to go with.

  276. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    When is the book due to be released…..Judging from what is being written here to day, one would determine that it’s been widely read…..I think it’ll make for great reading myself…The clubhouse santuary I respect and I think so will Torre…There maybe a reference here and there, but I do think the linching mob will be disappointed…If they even take time to read it…..

  277. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    is this guy calling in crazy??

  278. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    SJ44
    January 26th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    GB,

    As Wave said, if Andy puts up those numbers, he gets back to making 16 million again. Whether its with the Yankees or somewhere else.

    Its definitely a “problem”the Yankees would love to have.

    ————————————————————

    I agree that if that happens, it’s certainly a win-win. Should he get that close or make it to 20 wins, it will be curious to see if he tries making a runs at 300. As long as he stays healthy, he should keep adding 12-15 wins a year. Being left handed will certainly help.

  279. Scott47 January 26th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    I am not writing anything new, but Pete I must say that is great journalism. It seemed to me you loved Torre and hated Girardi, this may actually be true. But for you to write the above entry just goes to show you are a class act.

    You are objective and that is what journalists are supposed to be. Congrats, keep up the awesome work.

  280. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Manny is a strange dude. One of his closest friends in baseball is Arod. He’s closer to Arod than he is to Ortiz.

    Its going to be interesting to see how many treat Torre. I say this because I believe he will be back in LA.

    You never know with Manny. He can go either way. Not care about it or play the payback game.

    I think the Yankees are done unless they get overwhelmed with an offer.

    With all the corner OF’s on the market, they won’t get a lot for Nady until guys like Dunn, Manny and Abreu are off the market.

    I am hoping they don’t make any moves. Its nice to have depth for a change and you never know who will step up and help the team.

  281. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    I’m guessing this caller is not a member of the A-Rod fan club

  282. MikeEff January 26th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    rishi–the nutjob saying that the yanks can’t win with alex on the team?

    he’s an all knowing 25 year old…

  283. MaineYankee January 26th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    SJ44

    Your point about Tony Dungy being a class act is spot on. When he was fired from Tampa and Gruden won the SB the next year people said Dungy wasn’t a good coach. They said it took Gruden to get them to the next level. You never heard a word from Dungy. He just moved on and proved people wrong with results. How did it end up for both of them? Dungy could leave with his head held high and with the respect from everyone in the league. Joe should have done the same.

  284. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Pat M -

    February 3 is the release date.

  285. Barry Lane January 26th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Pete–

    A fine post, and beautfully written and reasoned. The Posada problem, I understand. Jeter should be in a different and special category. I think that if George Steinbrenner was alive, in the way that we knew him, some, although not all of this, would simply evaporate. At least relative to Derek.

    We’ll just have to wait and see.

    Barry Lane

  286. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    He said he was a former draft pick of the Yankees. I guess so

  287. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    and he was “drafted by the yankees” – i’m sensing something a little deeper…

  288. RustyJohn January 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Is there a chapter near the end of the book called “Asleep at the Switch: How to Make a Few Million by Living off your Achievements from Six Years Earlier”?

    For someone who lived the lie of bringing respect and dignity back to the organization, Torre sure went out in a way that shows he was always the ultimate fraud, a great manipulator of public opinion and someone Machiavelli would be proud of.

    If you weren’t a Torre favorite, you’d get crapped on as a player (particularly if you were a pitcher). If you crossed him the tabloids would get fired up. No one played the game better than Torre and when he discovered he was just a guest of the Steinbrenners he got pissed- you’re not bigger than the franchise and you never will be. Funny how just about everyone from the dynasty years is turning out to be a big jerk.

    Stand up people are hard to find and I’ve heard Moose throw his teammates under the bus too throughout the years. Probably the only player in recent memory who garners the ultimate respect from me is Greg Maddux. Just went about his business, kept his mouth shut, was low-key and won without cheating.

  289. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I’m sorry – why do people listen to the call-in shows? Most of the time the callers are ridiculous.

  290. 86w183 January 26th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    If all you were concerned about was 2009 then of gourse you put Joba in the pen, but the point is to develop your own starting pitching and that means he’s the # 5 starter. A starter is more valuable than any reliever, we have no reason to debate that again.

    I like Pete’s piece, except for the guarantee that the book will be 100 percent true? Since I suspect about 75 % of the book will be opinions and recollections I would bet an appendage that people will dispute many of his “truths” and recollections.

    One things he’s completely right about… Jeter’s status after 2010 will have the potential to get very ugly if the Yanks try to pay him based on the player he is then rather than the organizational icon that he is.

  291. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “I am hoping they don’t make any moves. Its nice to have depth for a change and you never know who will step up and help the team.”

    I know this will come as a shock but I agree with you. Nady will make for a useful bat off of the bench. I was just posing the question.

  292. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Pat M,

    I got an advance copy of the book. I thought he (Torre) went over the line to settle some scores.

    The “third party narrative” spin is done to try and shield (IMO) some of what Torre reveals.

    I think its something that didn’t need to be written. To me at least, it makes him look bad.

    I’m old school in some of this stuff. I don’t think certain things should be aired out in public.

    But, what’s done is done. I’m more interested in how this year’s team is shaping up as opposed going back in time and dealing Torre’s nonsense.

  293. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    I’m listening more for the commentary…that and I really wanted to hear the Michael Kay intro and the streaming killed me with the random commercials so I had to get out a radio and now it’s just on

  294. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    its mark prior

  295. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Kay’s streaming feed is just awful today. Constantly going into pre-programmed commercials.

    Brandon, I suspect that guy was drafted by the Tampa Mafia in the bad drafting years by the Yankees.

    Wasn’t the brightest bulb in the lamp store, that’s for sure.

  296. Tantron Willoughby January 26th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    None of this is new or surprising when you consider all of these actors pretend to be athletes when in reality they are, in some cases, legitimate business people (Cashman), half rate business people (think Andy, and opportunists (JT, Rogoid). I don’t ever want to hear that these business folks are playing a “game”. That’s a laugh in a half.

  297. Betsy January 26th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Here are a few quotes (from SI.com) from an excerpt:

    ****The personal falling-out they had in 2006 spring training over philosophical issues, Cashman’s decision not to bring back longtime center fielder Bernie Williams when his contract expired in 2006, his submission of odd lineup suggestions based on stats, his lack of regard for Ron Guidry as a pitching coach, his detachment from the “they” who were making an offer to Torre, his failure to offer any comment or support in the meeting that decided Torre’s future, his failure to personally relay Torre’s proposal to find a way to reach an agreement to the Steinbrenners …***

    Did I read that right? Odd lineup suggestions based on stats? What IS this world coming to….the day that athletes are judged by their stats is the day that pigs will fly! Holy cow……

    Ooh, Cashman made a decision not to bring back Bernie Williams just so he could hurt Joe Torre. Seriously – this tells me that Joe just wanted to hold onto the past, perhaps at the expense of the present. Cashman’s job was to make the team the best he could, even if it meant letting beloved players go. Joe didn’t understand this? Cluess Joe truly fits.

    Quote:
    “I thought Cash was an ally, I really did. You know, [Yankee bench coach Don Zimmer] could not trust Cash, and I disagreed with Zimmer vehemently for the longest time.”

    Cash should be an ally for Joe at the expense of maybe his own job? Does this man take responsibility for anything? Zim couldn’t trust Cash? LOL -If I believe anyone at all in the Yankee hierarchy, it’s Cashman. I’m over Zim and his bitterness at George and the Yankees.

  298. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    I thought I was hearing things when that caller said he was drafted by the Yankees.

    This stream is awful…I need to find a radio

  299. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    So, on regular radio, you’re not interrupted with all these out-of-place commercials?

    I wanted to hear Kay’s commentary, but I have no patience whatsover for people like “Fernando” and the guy after him. It seems to me they simply want to hear the sounds of the their own voices.

    What I did hear Kay say, about the curtain being pulled back on the wizard a little, was good.

  300. 86w183 January 26th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    The Tony Dungy comparison is striking. Also, Dungy didn’t walk away from Tampa because a $ 5 million salary with $ 3 million in bonuses/incentives was insulting.

    Tony Dungy is pure class… Joe Torre is missing the “cl”.

  301. Jeremy January 26th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    randy l,

    Bernie’s grudge against the Yankees is one of the saddest things about the team in recent years. I wish the team had handled Bernie’s situation much better.

    The first problem with your suggestion of using Bernie as a part-time player, though, is that Bernie would have made a lousy part timer. He had largely lost his ability to play CF. He would have been a corner OF/DH with limited pop and no speed and questionable ability to hit right-handed pitching – not the kind of player who any team should pay over $1 million to take up a roster spot.

    The second problem is you imply the Yankees ditched Bernie to go with an unproven nobody in CF, but that’s not true. The Yankees’ plan was to use Damon in CF. (Incidentally I think Damon was one of Cashman’s worst signings, but he was certainly a proven CF when the Yankees got him.)

    I think 2006 was supposed to Bernie’s “farewell tour” year, and that the Yankees figured that no one gets more than one farewell tour.

    Cashman has made his mistakes, but the 2007 Yankees don’t become World Series winners with Bernie around.

  302. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Yup…Doreen – no random commercials on the radio

  303. Phil January 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Zimmer was brutal to Bernie. I wonder why Joe suborned that.

  304. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Doreen-yeah on regular radio not too many random commercials and music. The internet stream is funky

  305. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Fernando from Brooklyn drafted by the Yankees, an all knowingly of Yankees history 25 yr. old Yankee fan. :D

  306. JWEAV January 26th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Hey SJ44 just the other day you said the Yankees never do incentive contracts? Whats up with that?

  307. Tex's New Best Friend January 26th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Where is all the praise outside of NY for signing a player for a good base salary (kind of like how people praised boston for smoltz and penny)?

    Or are we still buying up the world?

  308. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    SJ44,,,Your opinion carries alot weight with me…I was hoping that if he aired any beefs it would be aimed at the suits and not so much from the clubhouse…..

  309. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Tex’s New Best Friend -

    I don’t think it counts when you re-sign one of your own. :)

    Well, except if the Red Sox sign Varitek. :lol:

  310. Rishi January 26th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    good point:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=Neyer_Rob

  311. pat January 26th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Could Francessa’s mystery guest at 1:05 tomorrow who is an athlete, not a football player, and someone who doesn’t do much radio be Jeter?

    20 minutes with Mike not answering questions in light of what has happened in the last 36 hours could be interesting.

  312. Mitchell January 26th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Think I’ll wait to actually read the book before I stand in line to throw dirt on Torre’s reputation.

  313. RustyJohn January 26th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    What is going to be fun is seeing Torre trying to spin this when he realizes that he has po’d 75% of Yankee fans.

  314. Gus G. January 26th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    <<>>

    Hey, it’s not just any Hilton, it’s the Secaucus Hilton!

  315. Gus G. January 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    *sigh*

    “He’ll be collecting $20 million in 2017 while half of those dopes will be begging to do card shows at some Hilton in Jersey.”

    Hey Pete, it’s not just any Hilton, it’s the Secaucus Hilton!

  316. MaineYankee January 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Jeremy

    You are right it was sad how things ended for Bernie. I think the saddest things is he is one of those athletes that won’t admit his time is over. Brett Favre is another one that comes to mind. Not enough like Mussina that knows when the right time is right.

  317. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Looks like in Melky’s case and Andy’s case they made exceptions re: incentives in their deals.

    Its a practice the Yankees have shunned for years.

    Perhaps they saw this as the best way to get these deals done.

    Its not a crime for them to change their stance on these issues.

  318. Doreen January 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Interesting book cover, don’t you all think? Doesn’t show Torre’s face. He’s walking away.

  319. Betsy January 26th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    I just can’t take Pete’s advice to simply root for the laundry. I am an emotional person and I form attachments to the players. Of course, I am able to move on with different players, but I could never watch sports without caring abuot the players. I suppose it causes me some grief at times, but for me, it’s been worth it. I don’t think it’s bad advice – it just doesn’t suit me.

    Glad to hear Andy has signed. It’s a great deal for both team and player. I just hope Andy has another year left in him…..

    I think I defend ARod in part because I can understand what it’s like to be insecure. It doesn’t make him a bad man for trying too hard to fit in – who doesn’t want to fit in, wherever they are? Is he a bit odd? Maybe, but we all are. If he wants to go sunbathing in Central Park, well – lots of people do that, so more power to him. SJ44, I believe the A-Rod/Jeter relationship has basically been put to bed – is that your belief? They are fine now – are they best buddies? No, but things change in life. I thought they looked very relaxed together last year – I think we need to let this alone.

    Cashman is a REAL class guy – Torre threw him under the bus and he still won’t say a word. The Bernie story about him leaving his son at YS must be embarrassing to Bernie – I doubt he wanted that to get out. I just don’t get why Joe would reveal something like this.

    In any case, There are new teammates coming into the equation now and the dynamic will be different. I suspect this team will mesh really well this year – I, for one, can’t wait to see how things work out.

    One more thing – Verducci was on WFAN earlier and he took subtle, but obvious, potshots at A-Rod (bad post-season performances, can’t fit into the clubhouse). Francesca actually did a good job….

    Bill Madden was just on Michael Kay -surprisingly, he doesn’t really support Joe.

  320. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Can they add an incentive to Joba’s contract that rewards him every time he buzz’s Youk’s chrome dome?

  321. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    I’m thinking Mike’s mystery guess tomorrow is Derek Jeter.

  322. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Silly off the wall question. Can the Yankees sue Joe for wearing a Yankee uniform on the cover?

  323. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    “Looks like in Melky’s case and Andy’s case they made exceptions re: incentives in their deals.

    Its a practice the Yankees have shunned for years.

    Perhaps they saw this as the best way to get these deals done.

    Its not a crime for them to change their stance on these issues.”

    Actually they put in a 30 million bonus “incentive” for A-Rod to hit as many homers as possible, and be the all time homerun king. Maybe that’s why he’s preoccupied with the fences, instead of scoring a runner from third or second!!!

  324. PittsburghYankeeFan January 26th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    If these excerpt are correct (and there is no reason not to believe them)–all of the stuff about Torre favoring vets, overusing relievers, etc are completely true.

    Honestly and completely, good riddance, Joe. They kept you around 2 years too long — they should have fired you after 2004, but Cashman likely saved your butt then.

    I loved you for the dynasty years, Joe, and the 1998 Yankees were perhaps the best team of all time. There is a reason that most managers don’t stay with the same team more than 5-6 years, however.

    The club is bigger than you, brother. They made you, not the other way around. I hope you one day recognize that, and come to terms with the fans. ARod, for all of his weirdness and personality issues, has come to terms with that already–the Yankees will always be bigger than him, arguably the best player ever. Maybe you should take a lesson from him.

  325. PAT M. January 26th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Pittsburghyankeefan….And you’re basing your opinion on what ??? Did you already read the book ????

  326. Ham Fighters January 26th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    great news about pettitte! stupid move by andy but at least this time he caught himself and didnt go to another team. now i see hughes/aceves/coke/kennedy as solid to potentially outstanding depth behind a really solid rotation. this is a staff built to go deep into the PS!

    now lets get a bench, lotta good bats out there!

  327. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “Silly off the wall question. Can the Yankees sue Joe for wearing a Yankee uniform on the cover?”

    The answer is no.

    I suppose if he had a buyout provision in his contract when he left the Yankees a clause could have been inserted that no “dirty laundry” be aired for x amount of years.

  328. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Lisa from Whitestone calling Kay? WTH? Don’t tell Francesa

  329. pat January 26th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Lisa from Whitestone calls WFAN and ESPN? Is there no loyalty?

  330. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    That’s the first time I ever heard Lisa call up ESPN radio..lol

  331. Ham Fighters January 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    btw, the torre book? it was good that everybody got riled and jumped in yesterday, i really enjoyed it, but its already way in the past for me and hasnt changed my opinion of joe, arod, cash, or anybody else.

    still wondering if arod got his cabana boy though.

  332. Joe from Long Island January 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Pete – For what it’s worth, I think this is one of your best columns/posts. It’s sad, especially for those of us who still like to root like little boys, but it appears to be the truth, unfortunately. People do a lot of not-so-nice things for money, and not just in sports.

    It makes me appreciate Moose a lot more – and I already appreciated him a lot.

  333. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Lisa Noooooooooooooo ! LOL What did she say ?

  334. Jeremy January 26th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Pete, this is the best post you’ve ever written. It must have been hard for you to write it considering your respect for Torre. Great work.

  335. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Think it would be prudent for the Yankees to sign Type A FA Juan Cruz, rather than rely solely on Bruney, Veras, Robertson, Albaladejo, Marte and Coke, plus others. Cruz would only cost us a 4th round draft pick and would solidify our bullpen as probably in the top 1-2 bullpens in the league. Also he’s been a starter as little as 2 years ago.

    It also would give us some trade chips to use if the CF competition or utility infielder do not work out.

  336. MichiganYankee January 26th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    Cashman ROCKS with the Pettitte deal. The Yanks can now still hold onto their PR points by boasting that the opening day payroll is lower than last years. And if a payroll limit is really the issue, the Yanks can now wait to make the salary dump trade at the right time (no team will give up prospects to pay Nady $6.55M when Abreu and Dunn are available as free agents for not much more).

  337. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Not interested in Cruz. Wasting money on FA relief pitchers is fools gold. You build your bullpens from within or on the trade market.

    There is no guarantee Cruz can put together back to back seasons. He’s never done it in his career.

    Mark Melancon will be ready to contribute this year. Their bullpen depth is very good.

    Better off keeping the draft pick.

  338. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    SJ what do you see out of Dunn and Delarosa in AA this yr. ?

  339. KoA January 26th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Really well done. Excellent read, thanks.

  340. sunny615 January 26th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    In Pettitte’s case (re:incentives) perhaps they’re easily reachable incentives (based on past performance) so that Pettitte’s offer (in his mind) is a $12 mil offer and he can say he didn’t accept a lesser offer and got the larger salary he thought he deserved.

    If, in fact, they are reachable (15+ wins, sub 4 era, etc) then who cares? If he indeed does reach those goals, then it should translate into Yankee wins. I’m ok with that.

  341. rbizzler January 26th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Hey Pete,

    Haven’t posted in a while, but this is an excellent post. The juxtaposition between Moose and Andy is especially relevant considering how the negotiations have gone with him this off-season (and I am glad that Andy is back). I still have a soft spot for ‘Mr. Torre’ but some of the luster certainly is off the legacy.

  342. JWEAV January 26th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Could Joba get skipped the first week of the season to cut his innings? If so, would that set up CC to open the new stadium?

  343. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Brandon,

    I’m hoping for big things from Dunn and DeLaRosa. When guys get to AA, that seperates the men from the boys from a prospect perspective.

    Both guys have the potential to be major league pitchers. The challenge will be how they adjust to better calibur hitters.

    They may both start in Tampa. However, I suspect both guys will be in AA at some point (if they don’t start the year in Trenton) this year.

  344. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Brandon you have De la Rosa in AA this year? I think he’s more likely to start in High A Tampa.

  345. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    He’s on the 40 eventually he’ll be in AA this year. Dunn is rumored to start in AA next yr and Wilkins is definitely better than him, so yeh I guess.

  346. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    SJ44-

    Highly respect your opinion, but Cruz has put together 2 very good years in a row with a 3.10 ERA followed be a 2.61 ERA with 71 strikeouts in 51.2 innings and a .192 batting average against last year, a righty holding lefties to a .159 batting average.

    I’m just not ready to entrust the 8th inning to Marte, Veras or Bruney, and an untested Melancon. The timing is right and the cost would be negligible in terms of money and a draft pick.

  347. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..Sheets ?) Now batting #6 Alex Rodriguez January 26th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    SJ I think DeLaRosa is going to past Dunn everything you hear about him is he is very wise for his age and was converted from OF to SP just a few yrs. ago. So I’ll definitely check him out in Trenton, NJ this yr.

  348. JWEAV January 26th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Has anyone seen this kid pitch. Here they have him a 9(elite player prospect) and number 3 in the farm

    Dellin Betances RHP…..21…..2006 (8) high school (NY)
    Team (LG) W-L ERA IP CMD K/9 oppBA
    ============== === ==== ===== === === =====
    Yankees (GCL): 0-1 8.53 6.1 2.0 8.5 .406
    Charleston (SAL): 9-4 3.67 115.1 2.3 10.5 .208
    Strengths: 88-95 MPH fastball and 77-82 MPH knuckle-curve. Arm action. Tall/projectable frame. Strikeout ability.
    Weaknesses: Deception of 78-81 MPH changeup. Command. Durability
    Comments: Tall/projectable pitcher with smooth arm action and excellent velocity. Can get swings and misses with his pure stuff. Has an injury history, including a bout of “tired arm” in ’08. Must command his pitches more effectively, but he has a high ceiling.
    MLB Debut: 2011
    Potential Rating: 9D

    That was from Rob Gordon and Jeremy Deloney at baseballHQ.com

  349. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    “If, in fact, they are reachable (15+ wins, sub 4 era, etc) then who cares? If he indeed does reach those goals, then it should translate into Yankee wins. I’m ok with that.”

    sunny615, those kind of incentives (wins, era, etc.) are not allowed. Reports are that the incentives in Pettitte’s contract are based on innings pitched and days on the roster.

    If that’s the case, Andy may well be comfortable with the deal and it could easily turn out to be a better deal for him than the flat rate one reportedly offered (I don’t we actually ever knew what the details were of that original offer). On the other hand, if he has problems, then the Yanks may come out ahead.

    I think this is a win-win for everyone concerned, and a reason the Yanks ought to consider more incentive based deals.

  350. YankeeRay January 26th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    MichiganYankee
    January 26th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
    Cashman ROCKS with the Pettitte deal. The Yanks can now still hold onto their PR points by boasting that the opening day payroll is lower than last years. And if a payroll limit is really the issue, the Yanks can now wait to make the salary dump trade at the right time (no team will give up prospects to pay Nady $6.55M when Abreu and Dunn are available as free agents for not much more).

    —–

    In addition to that we can still boastthat we have 3 home grow players in our rotation. How many big market teams can say that?

    I agree that we will not get a good prospect for Nady so lets just dump him and Matsui and sign Manny.
    I know you are all sick of me saying that but from the beginning of the off season I have said to sign AJ, Perez, Tex ,Pettite and Manny. I was wrong on Ollie for CC which is good and maybe CC ate up some of Mannys money amongst other things he ate.
    I still think we can do Manny as maybe this Torre thing will motivate him to push harder to play with Alex.
    When I hear Cash say there is no room for Manny then I will stop. Haven’t heard that yet.

  351. m January 26th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    It pains pat for me to say this, but I think that Bruney’s earned our trust to take the ball later in games.

    As I said in yesterday’s thread, Girardi and Eiland (with an assist from Mo) have done a great job in building the bullpen through trust and confidence.

  352. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    “Not interested in Cruz. Wasting money on FA relief pitchers is fools gold. You build your bullpens from within or on the trade market.”

    If that’s the case not sure the Yanks should have gone $12MM/3 years on Marte. In this market, we might have gotten Marte on a one year deal. His situation and Cruz’ situation were quite similar.

  353. Fran January 26th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Trisha, sorry I didn’t respond to your post sooner. You can hear highlights and interviews from Kays show on the ESPN website. He was right on in my opinion. He said that Torre and Alex never got along and ripping Alex sells. He also said that Torre would never talk against his core group (Posada, Jeter, Pettitte). Also said that Torre has to take accountability for what was in the book for even if it is written in the 3rd person, the details came from Torre.

  354. Trevor January 26th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    What’s the scouting report on Dunn?

  355. jennifer January 26th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    The Pat that is on the phone with Kay, is that the same pat on here? If not they just stole someones thought from here. :lol:

  356. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    YankeeRay-

    Let’s say you could get a prospect for Nady. The rest of your deal doesn’t make sense. You would be getting the difference between Manny and Matsui for the cost of Manny plus Matsui.

    As good as Manny is, I don’t think Cashman would do that deal.

  357. miggs January 26th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Wave,

    Its pointless to talk about the contract without knowing the details. It could be 100 innings for a bonus or 175. It could be 120 days on the active roster or 180. Who knows?

    All you’re doing is wasting time debating an issue you have no details on.

    We don’t know how easy it is to acheive the incentives and we don’t know how many there are.

    Why not just wait until they come out instead of posting just to post?

  358. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    They aren’t similar. One is lefthanded and that’s a big distinction.

    He’s also only making 4 million a year. That’s a steal.

    Marte is also a better pitcher than Juan Cruz.

    The Yankees have plenty of guys who can pitch the 7th and 8th inning. Especially from the right side.

    Bruney, Veras, and Melancon are three guys who can get the job done. Add Marte to the mix, as well as the starters being able to go later in games, I don’t think the bullpen is going to be an issue.

  359. 86w183 January 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    SJ—

    It’s funny, weeks ago I suggested Pettite for a low base/incentive deal and was shot down by you because “the Yankees don’t do that”.

    Apparently they just did.

    Good face-saving economically sound deal for all concerned.

    If Juan Cruz can be gotten for a decent deal it makes sense to me. 6-1 3.10 in ’07, 4-0 2.61 in ’08… sure seems like good back-to-back seasons to me. Over the two years 158 K in 112 2/3 innings is pretty impressive.

  360. Tom January 26th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    1 year 5.5 for Pettitte

    per espn

  361. Nick in SF January 26th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    m., it pains you to say it because, deep in your heart, you still don’t trust him. And I don’t blame you. Even though I still have my “I’m a Bruney Believer” button ready to go.

  362. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    SJ44, I wasn’t disagreeing with your original post, just going with it.

    There is no way anyone could say with confidence whether Marte or Cruz will have the better year next year. If I had to guess, I’d go with Cruz.

    I grant you the left-handedness, but is that worth the difference? I’m not sure – Cashman may have made a mistake there.

  363. Loading it up ! January 26th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....thru.0328/

    Done deal

    Yankees 2009 World Series Champions

  364. RhapsodyInBlue January 26th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    SJ44
    January 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
    Looks like in Melky’s case and Andy’s case they made exceptions re: incentives in their deals.

    Its a practice the Yankees have shunned for years.

    Perhaps they saw this as the best way to get these deals done.

    Its not a crime for them to change their stance on these issues.
    ————————————————————

    Not true, Torre had incentives in his last two signed Yankee contracts.

  365. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    The Yankees have never done incentive deals until this year.

    They did it with Melky and they did it with Pettitte. Perhaps, they will now incorporate them in certain deals.

    The incentives though are based on plate appearances, innings, stuff like that. They still don’t have award incentives in their deals.

    Either way though, Andy’s base is much lower than it was when he turned down the 10 million in guaranteed money.

    Its a far cry from the deal he rejected in December.

    Hopefully, he hits his incentives.

    If he doesn’t, he’s going to wish he didn’t turn down 10 million in guaranteed money.

  366. bodhisattva January 26th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    SJ44
    January 26th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
    Brandon,
    I’m hoping for big things from Dunn and DeLaRosa. When guys get to AA, that seperates the men from the boys from a prospect perspective.
    Both guys have the potential to be major league pitchers. The challenge will be how they adjust to better calibur hitters.
    They may both start in Tampa. However, I suspect both guys will be in AA at some point (if they don’t start the year in Trenton) this year.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Dunn was in Trenton (AA) at the end of last season and pitched very well in relief.

  367. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Players, not the manager Rhapsody. Until these deals, the Yankees haven’t done incentive laden deals with their players.

  368. YankeeRay January 26th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Wave Your Hat
    January 26th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
    YankeeRay-

    Let’s say you could get a prospect for Nady. The rest of your deal doesn’t make sense. You would be getting the difference between Manny and Matsui for the cost of Manny plus Matsui.

    As good as Manny is, I don’t think Cashman would do that deal.

    ——

    Wave, not sure I understand your Manny/Matsui point. If you dump Matsui for a low level prospect and pay 5mm of his salary, then you are paying Manny plus 5mm for 1 season. While it is a lot of money it is Manny in the bank to me.
    He would play some OF which Matsui may not and he would give the best support in the 5th spot in the order.
    To me this is great insurance against Posada being unhealthy and having Molina and CF spot in the line up.
    This for 3 yrs is better to me than Matsui for 1 and then chasing Holiday or someone else around next off season.

  369. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    “We don’t know how easy it is to acheive the incentives and we don’t know how many there are.

    Why not just wait until they come out instead of posting just to post?”

    miggs, you gotta relax on this. I was responding to a post for heaven’s sake.

    You’re right, if the innings pitched hurdle is 350 and the days on the roster hurdle is 400, Andy didn’t do so well. My guess is the hurdles are more reasonable, with him having to put in a full season to get the full amount.

    Who knows? Guess what, I don’t really care! I’m just glad the Yanks signed him.

  370. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Cashman didn’t make a mistake with Marte because he wants him in that role for more than one year.

    He knows he has guys like Bruney, Sanchez, Melancon, Veras, perhaps even Brackman later in the year (or next year) that can give him a righty in the ‘pen who throws gas.

    Its much tougher to find a lefty like Marte. Its why its taken the Yankees so many years to find a guy like that since Stanton left.

  371. m January 26th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Fran,

    I’ve heard that details came from many sources. Mike Bordello (is that right?!) directly said that A-rod was phony when he came, but it seemed like it was setting up the whole “look how he’s changed” thing.

    Still. If there was anything that Torre didn’t feel comfortable with something that was said be a 4th party, then he had ample time and opportunities to take the controversial stuff out.

    nick,

    As long as Bruney stays away from the Ho-ho’s and Twinkies and stays focused on his little son, we’ll be in good hands in the 7th or 8th.

  372. Gregore January 26th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Love the blog. First post. How do you feel now as a player for the Dodgers? The idea that it is in your manager’s nature to write a book like this hasgot to be a serious concern to them. I mean if he did it to the Yankee’s why wouldn’t he do it to us? Thats is going to be some scene in the LA clubhouse this year.

  373. SJ44 January 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    Ray,

    The Yankees aren’t into having “dead money” (paying a guy to play somewhere else) anymore.

    It makes no sense to slot 27 million dollars (Manny’s salary+ paying off Matsui’s deal in your scenario) even for one year.

    Its too much money, even for the Yankees.

    That’s why Manny is not going to be a Yankee and will most likely end up back with the Dodgers.

  374. pat January 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    m
    I only took issue because you pooh poohed my Bruney love but I fully endorse you acknowleging the error of your ways.

    I still have hopes someday you will see the light on other issues. :wink:

    Jennifer

    If they made good points I’ll take credit but it wasn’t me on the radio.

  375. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    “He’ll be collecting $20 million in 2017 while half of those dopes will be begging to do card shows at some Hilton in Jersey.”

    Pete, Did you just watch “The Wrestler” before writing this.

    Really though, this post was so spot-on you should have called Torre and asked him if he wanted co-authorship.

  376. saucY January 26th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    UPDATE!!

    :arrow:

  377. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    YankeeRay,

    There’s reports going around that Dunn is being offered $5MM for 1 year. If that’s the case, or even close to the case, you are going to need to eat more than $5MM of Matsui’s contract.

    That means the effective cost of Manny this year will be through the roof, and you are only getting the benefit of the amount by which Manny is better than Matsui, since you are losing Matsui.

    That doesn’t make much sense to me, especially since you presumably wouldn’t give Manny a real long term deal to amortize the difference.

    Now, you might convince me that signing Dunn for $5MM and getting rid of Matsui might make some sense…

  378. YankeeRay January 26th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    SJ44
    January 26th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
    Ray,

    The Yankees aren’t into having “dead money” (paying a guy to play somewhere else) anymore.

    It makes no sense to slot 27 million dollars (Manny’s salary+ paying off Matsui’s deal in your scenario) even for one year.

    Its too much money, even for the Yankees.

    That’s why Manny is not going to be a Yankee and will most likely end up back with the Dodgers.

    —-

    SJ, I hear ya but I want to hear it from Cash before I relent. having just saned 5 mm on Pettites guarantee maybe they can justify it.
    There are so many compelling reasons to signing Manny and the only one against is money for 1 year. Reminds me a little of Beltran.

    SJ, I think I’m getting you to buy in a little on this or you would have told me to go pound salt of just not responded to my posts. Would you be happy if they signed Manny?

  379. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love January 26th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    I wonder what Torre did to Kay?

  380. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    “Cashman didn’t make a mistake with Marte because he wants him in that role for more than one year.”

    Not at all sure about that. In this market I think he could have gotten Marte for less of a commitment. And your own point about the unreliability of relievers argues against the three year term.

    Doesn’t make Cashman a bad person.

  381. 86w183 January 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I’m with SJ on this one, Marte’ is definitely a keeper. It’s also why Coks and/or Dunn will probably reach the bigs faster than many of the righties.

  382. YankeeRay January 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Wave, what if Manny deferred some money this year? Now we may be getting somewhere. If Manny wants to be a Yankee then Cash and Boras just have to get creative.

    Manny couldn’t even have been discussed until we signed Pettite as Nady would have been needed for a pitcher.
    Now the table is set for anything to happen.

    1 more move and game over.

  383. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    YankeeRay,

    Personally, I’d love to have Manny. Keep up the campaign, who knows?

    But I wouldn’t get your heart set on it.

  384. RayVTNC January 26th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    What we find alarming was day to day in the locker room. ARod & Jeter are teased daily about who they are with or going to be with. These are confident men but sometimes they want to be admired like the heroes they admired as youngsters. They are pretty thick skinned. Cashman of all people is thick skinned and this is more mundane to him I’m sure.

    When type A’s get together conflicts happen. Egos get bruised and pety or chippy things occur. These people are so competitive that it would make anyone cringe. They tease each other beyond belief.

    When Reggie Jackson played for the Yankees, Thurman Munson was all over him about every detail. Reggie made an entrance to practices in a convertible driven by one of his gorgeous blonde girlfriends. Other players teased Munson that he was jealous of Reggie’s blondes. It is normal to them.

    Joe’s book is honest and gives us fans a glimpse at the truth! If you can’t handle the Truth, then don’t buy the book. Personally I will buy the book & read it. I never thought of Torre as St Joe! I like him as a Manager. Heck, I liked Billy Martin as a Manager. I even liked Casey & Ralph & Yogi & others. I didn’t like Buck for the same reasons I don’t like Girardi. So be it! I am a fan & it doesn’t matter. Who doesn’t like Stick!! He was the savior of the Yankees foundation. Cashman is trying to follow his lead. But the Tampa vs. NY battle is always at war.

    Heck again, I like George and I am ever grateful he bought & ran the Yankees. Is he a Saint? LOL! No! Do I like what he has done. Yes, mostly. Sure I cringe sometimes but all said he is Yankee baseball.

    ARod is a student of the game. He wants to succeed so badly that he would try to emulate successful people around him! Sounds good to me! As a young man, ARod is still learning his way. He is a great baseball player, perhaps the best ever. I believe he can handle a book by Joe Torre.

    What I find difficult is listening to so many who do not appreciate what Torre did for the Yankees. IMO, the only reason the Yankees didn’t win even more WS was they didn’t have the starting pitching to do it. That wasn’t Joe’s fault.

  385. janelli January 26th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    “This is one of the best posts I ever saw on this blog. Well said Pete.”

    what he said. very concise points and well written pete.. great post

  386. CB January 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Shouldn’t everyone read the actual book before passing judgement and getting all harsh? I got an advance copy, and I would say that the material related to Torre is not quite a “rip” job as it’s being portrayed in the media (by people who haven’t read the book either.) Some of it is indeed airing of dirty laundry, but it’s part of the story. Many criticisms come via Verducci and his telling of the story, especially when it comes to Brian Cashman’s record as GM.

    A lot of the book is also really positive. It’s not some bitter old manager leveling off at his former employer. It’s good and bad…and honest. Seems like Verducci asked questions and Torre answered them. Is anyone shocked that most of the team dislikes A-Rod? I didn’t find that all that surprising, nor did I find anything surprising about the tumultuous way Torre left the team after 2007. He’s just telling his side of the story. Doesn’t make him right.

    Overall, I think it’s a great inside baseball read and a nice bookend to Buster Olney’s book on the 2001 team. People should read it first, before sounding off on a few pieces that the publisher has let out to drive up the hype.

  387. TGFizeek January 26th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Very well done Pete. Not much for the more opinion-based commentaries on non baseball posts but this was very well done. Write the full article, you’ve got a week to get it in for a feature!

  388. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    “CB January 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Shouldn’t everyone read the actual book before passing judgement and getting all harsh? ”

    CB, glad to have you back!

    Read the book before going negative? What are you, some kind of a nut? By then everyone will have moved on to something else…

  389. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    “I wonder what Torre did to Kay?”

    S.A., in Torre’s first season Kay asked him a question about an in-game move he made and asked it in front of players in the clubhouse. Torre took Kay aside and told him not to “FN” every do that to him again. I can imagine those cold eyes staring Kay down. Torre drew the line in the sand rather quickly.

  390. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    trisha, Kay’s a big boy. I can’t imagine him letting that rankle down through the years.

  391. trisha - CC and AJ and Sheets - OH MY! January 26th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Wave – it did, and he talked about it publicly. That was the beginning of their cold war.

    “Shouldn’t everyone read the actual book before passing judgement and getting all harsh? ” ”

    It appears that enough of us have read the available excerpts and reviews to be totally turned off by what is out there. I would say the rest of the book isn’t going to make those things feel better.

  392. Rich M January 26th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    I’m confused Pete. Are you a reporter or a fan? A reporter wants the truth while a fan wants fantasy. And we have no idea what “truth” Torre shared versus what other people were quoted as saying, so let’s read the book -in context- before you vote for Joe Girardi as a pal over Joe Torre.

  393. zeusrules January 26th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Everyone is writing a book. Yes, even Cashman will get around to it eventually. Writing “the book” has become as much a part of the game as baseball cards, TV commercials, video games and regional sports networks.

    There was no stopping this book just like there is no stopping half of us from buying it. I agree with everything Pete says. Most of the early reports are PR bait. But Torre is no Jim Bouton. There are no real surprises here. I think it’s mostly spin.

    In the end Jeter will write a book too, only he’ll take it “one chapter at a time” without revealing much because it’s “a long season” and “streaky teams win in the post season” because you “play to win, everyday.”

  394. KathleenZ January 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Peter, I usually agree with most everything you write, but I do not agree about Joe Torre. How about we read the book before we totally denigrate a man who was so important to the Yankees and who was treated like a red-headed stepchild by the Yankees at the end of his contract. Most of the information about this book came from the NYPost and we all know how honorable they are.

  395. filthy slider January 26th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Pete, Kudos, It never ends well was one of the best pieces of writing I have read on this blog, I’ve been reading since you started, outstanding.

  396. NHYankee62 January 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    When will the Torre apologizers ever realize that the Yankees bent over backwards for this guy?

    Quick little history lesson:
    Casey Stengel won 7 rings w/ the Yankees, Torre won 4.
    In 1960 Whitey Ford started Games 3 and games 6 on the World Series pitching 2 complete game shutouts. The Yankees lost in 7 to the Pirates. The question was how come Ford didn’t start games 1, 4, and 7? Stengel was held accountable and was fired. The next year the Yankees won the ’61 World Series with Ralph Houk as their new manager.

    Similarly in 2003 Torre made the inexplicable move in game 5 of the 2003 WS of going to Jeff Weaver in game 5 while Mo sat twiddling his thumbs in the bullpen.
    Of course Joey Four Rings was able to keep his job when he should’ve been fired on the spot.

    Then we have the countless blunders Torre made over the next 4 years but was still yet never held accountable for! I could go on all night. The Yankees offered him the highest contract in baseball which included incentives just like any other job in America. But I guess your hero Joe is above all that?? I guess Joey Four Rings should’ve been given a blanket pass for life despite no many how many bullpen arms he blew out or how many classic strategic blunders he made??? Why should he EVER be held accountable, he’s Joey Four Rings!!!

  397. David January 26th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Lets make our conclusions once the book is actually out. Remember the stuff we read in the Post could be the “juiciest” material written in the book. I believe in the end this book will give us some really interesting insight/ behind the scenes moments we did not know about as die hard Yankee fans. Don’t forget that Yogi threw out the first pitch of a Met/Yankees game in full Mets gear before the Yankees came begging for him to comeback to Yankee Stadium.

  398. NHYankee62 January 26th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    How dare Kay question Joey Four Rings!!!

  399. howard January 26th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    Torre owes A-Rod an apology.

  400. patty January 26th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    prostituting???? lol WOW…. 17 words printed in the NEW YORK POST about a 477 page book is enough to form this opinion??? really??

    REALLY????

  401. Tom Swift January 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Very well written, Peter.

  402. NHYankee62 January 26th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Hey Patty and everyone else in the “Let’s Read it before we comment camp”:

    The excerpts released by TORRE and VERDUCCI have severe criticisms of Arod saying his teammates called him “Afraud” and that he had a Single White Female obsession with Jeter.

    No matter what else is in the rest of the book, how does it erase the fact that you should never air the dirty laundry in the public eye?? What happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Instead, Torre prostituted himself to make a few extra bucks while tarnishing his Yankee legacy and his image. On top of that, what must the Dodger be thinking??? Sounds to me this is someone you simply can’t trust.

    I think Hank Steinbrenner said it best: “Who was Joe Torre without my dad?”

  403. Amandla January 26th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    Wow. What a difference a day makes. Who got to you Pete? After being at the last game at The Stadium (and for so much more) I still think Torre took the only road the Yankees left for him. The combination of Levine and Hal is enough to make Ghandi want to take a cheap shot. They don’t even have to open their mouths. Just their faces of entitlement are enough. I’m a Yankees fan in spite of current ownership/management not because of it. Torre always tempered that. We’ll see what Girardi is made of. Hopefully he’ll have a consistent lineup before July this season.

  404. Nick January 26th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    Bernie Williams is pathetic for holding a grudge. After all, the Yankees are always tight with money, and NEVER even consider the thought of giving someone a contract they don’t deserve, much less overpaying someone.

  405. Lara08 January 26th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    On Mike’s show this afternoon Verducci wouldn’t respond to a the comments from Alex’s “camp” because its from an anonymous person. I guess there are no anonymous comments from anyone in his book. LMAO

  406. Mark January 26th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Let’s be honest, the Steiny’s dont know baseball. Yes they finance the team but they arent the reason for winning and they know it……Torre was treated unfairly and the stupid comment by Hanke(hahha his name is Hank) “who is Joe Torre without my dad?” come on. The arod comments are on point. why get mad, you all know this, he pines to be Jeter and in his place and never will be.

  407. george January 26th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    the only way i’d read this book is if Verducci grills Torre on important questions such as

    1. WTF didn’t you rearrange the rotation after the rainout in the 2004 ALCS so that Brown wouldn’t start 2 games in the series?

    2. in game 7 2004, why didn’t you bring in El Duque or Moose in long relief?

    3. If you felt compelled to bring in Vasquez, why not a batter earlier, instead of to Damon w/the bases loaded? especially given that Damon had already had a 2-HR game off Vasquez that year, and that Vasquez had pitched like crap for months.

    4. If you were unhappy w/Giambi’s D – and who wouldn’t be! – why didn’t you force the issue and turn him into a DH, instead of indulging Giambi in his mind game about hitting better when he was butchering in the field?

    5. why did you think bringing in Jeff Weaver instead of Mariano in game 4 gave the Yankees the better chance to win the 2003 World Series?

    etc. I doubt Verducci’s enough of a journalist though.

    I actually like Joe. but if Joe managed the way A-Rod played in 2004-2007, A-Rod would have a ring.

  408. Kevin January 26th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Bernie Williams “clearly” didn’t deserve a contract? What justification do you have for that statement? Considering how badly Bernie wanted/wants to play for the Yanks, I have to think he would have taken a one year deal, and with his last season stats at .281/.332/.436 that alone warrants at least a bench job. Oh yeah, also Bernie only helped lead the Yanks to 4 World Series titles, we’ll take that along with his being worthy of at least a 1 yr deal and not even offer him crap. Bernie got stiffed by the Yanks big time.

  409. Kevin January 26th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    And Mark, if you think George Steinbrenner “doesn’t know baseball” then you are clueless. Hank, not so sure, Hal the jury might still be out. But George knew baseball. He didn’t JUST “finance the team”. He helped revolutionize a sport and transformed the Yankees into a powerhouse. Be grateful.

  410. patty January 26th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Does anyone really think torre called a-rod a-fraud??? and then ADMITTED to it?? I’m quite sure a bunch of his teammates, along with a million baseball fans, have said that about alex at some point…

    I suppose it’s easier to kill the messenger though… hate to use that thing called logic instead of hatred, but I will still reserve judgement until i actually READ something IN context…

    Lastly, I have a funny feeling the dodgers are hoping for a world series and not having a stroke over an article in the ny post… or they could be laughing at all things yankee–especially the fans….and maybe the SWF comment :o

  411. Scorpio January 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Awesome post, Pete. Your post reminded me of this line from a famous poem “the world is too much with us,” how true that it.

  412. NHYankee62 January 27th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Hey Patty:

    Who knows, maybe Torre did. What’s worse calling him Afraud or batting in 8TH in a elimination game???? He should’ve been fired on the spot for that one alone??? How the hell is that going to motivate Arod into producing?? In terms of motiviation, any leader will tell you that’s the dumbest that Torre could’ve done!!

    You keep missing the point. Torre put his name on this book. That makes him responsible for everything that comes out of it. After having mastered the NY media for so long are you really that naive to think that he didn’t expect this to happen?

    Ever since Torre walked away he’s done nothing but whine about how he was mistreated. Cry me a rive Joe, you can’t get away with not winning a WS for 7 years in NY.

    As for you Patty, sounds like you should become a Dodgers fan.

  413. NHYankee62 January 27th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Kevin,

    The problem is that Torre never realized that Bernie had no business being out in CF. Despite Bernie stumbling all over the field and having a terribly arm, Torre kept running him out there everyday at the expense of the team. Nothing would’ve changed if the Yankees signed Bernie with the intention of being a “bench player.”

    As for Bernie he sounds like a little boy crying over spilled milk. Pete said it best that it’d be great to have Bernie come out for Old Timers Day. Maybe it’ll still happen once Bernie stops acting like a baby. Face it, he was washed up. The Yankees could not improve their team by hanging onto him when he clearly couldn’t produce at a high level anymore. That’s the way baseball is.

  414. john Rosenfelder January 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    you have sour grapes because you didn’t get the gig writing w/joe torre. how nice that you had good conversations w/third place joe girardi.

    “arod will be collecting 20m while the other guys are doing card shows” misses the point completely. we would line up to see a WINNER like scott brosius at a hilton in new jersey but resent having spent money to buy a ticket to a game in a fat stadium w/arod grounding out to end rally after rally. he’s an embarrassment to the uniform on most days. breaking the rules to try to beat the ball out of the red sox pitcher’s hand says it all. he is not a “smart” baseball player like manny, rickey, billy, thurman, nettles, BROSIUS.

    what an interesting point of view, to hold up mussina and girardi as examples to support the great arod and joe being a disgrace. torre has the track record, mussina, rodriguez, girardi, etc. DON’T.

    i disagree with the premise/tone of this article. last i checked the dodgers made the playoffs for the first time in years and torre successfully managed manny the monster fresh out of terrorizing boston.

    mr torre may have been short with you but what paper are you from? he has to prioritize as manager. sorry.

  415. NHYankee62 January 27th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    Hey John,

    Hate to break it to ya, but not even Joey Four Rings can go 7 years without winning the WS in NY. Yes, even Joey Four Rings has to be held accountable at some point. Face it, his terrible decision making was a major factor in why the team did NOT win in 2003, 2004, and 2006.

    So you would rather have Brosius than Arod???

    I’ll have what you’re drinking!!

  416. youngtimer January 27th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Like others have already posted here, Pete: well said.

    Just FYI I did think about Moose yesterday, before I read your post. Saw a picture of him and thought, Can’t believe he won’t be pitching for us anymore. I’ll miss that old goat.

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