That’s CC as in Chemistry Class
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2009 
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There’s been a lot of talk about clubhouse chemistry in the wake of Joe Torre setting fire to the George Washington Bridge.
So now seems like a good time to bring up the recent actions of one Carsten Charles Sabathia.
Joba Chamberlain was quick to tell me the other day how much he has enjoyed getting to know CC over the last few weeks. The two had dinner in Manhattan the day before CC’s press conference and have kept in touch since.
Now comes word that Sabathia flew to Florida this week to take part in the golf tournament Derek Jeter hosts to raise money for the Turn 2 Foundation. You’ve also heard of Sabathia’s striking up a friendship with Johnny Damon and his plans to move to New Jersey full time with his family.
Back in the dark days of November and December, all we heard was how Sabathia didn’t want to play for the Yankees and would shun New York. Instead he is embracing the idea and working hard to ingratiate himself with his new teammates.
If Sabathia goes 13-12, none of this much matters. But after reading about how the Yankees treated A-Rod like Fredo, it’s worth noting that Sabathia appears to be fitting in just fine.
God, I want the season to start.
Tom — Me too!! Spring training is 15 days away!! Spring is almost here!
CC better not be hanging out with Johnny Ola in Havana then…
I just hope CC pitches well for the Yankees. And if they make it to the playoffs, I hope he pitches better than he did when he was with Cleveland.
I might actually believe CC when he said he doesn’t plan to use the opt out.
Sounds like a great guy for this team.
Exactly, starts slow and no one will care about flying to FL or living in NJ.
I can’t wait to see…man, I don’t want to say see CC.
I’ve never been part of a team maybe that’s why I’ve never fully embraced the chemistry thing. There is playing like a team that I agree with but maybe thats all people mean by chemistry.
I was in the Army, hated some of my peers but when it was time be a team, we did it. No pretenses, no fakeness…just did the job.
I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I love to hear this kind of stuff. We’ll see how the team stands at the end of the year, but CC reaching out is a good thing regardless. If he gets off to a slow start, so what? It happens – and it happens to a lot of players in NY. CC is an absolute stud and if he gets off to a slow start, then I have confidence that he will recover. We don’t have to make a choice between having a winning team and having a likeable team that gets along – you can have both. We will not know about the winning part until the end of the season, so in the meantime, why not have a likeable team?
>I just hope CC pitches well for the Yankees.
I just hope the offense backs him up.
Last year was turrble.
Yes but will CC have Torre shot in the eye while he’s on the message table?
Sure it shouldn’t matter Betsy but you know that there are crackpots who feel the need to be stupid.
wait, so does this mean we are or we aren’t getting manny…
soo….if Torre’s books turns out what it is, who thinks the Yanks will issue out #6 during Spring Training?
I think all this controversy will unite the team and put everyone on the same page. At times I think this team needs a little fire and maybe this it it. A-rod had a monster season in 07 and seems to have changed his attitude a bit. With a new stadium maybe he can turn the page on all his previous yankee shortcomings and put up MVP numbers again this season.
Yeah,CC seems like a great guy and we know he is a great pitcher this is what we have been missing and if AJ stays healthy watch out, look at the potential of this rotation. CC,AJ,Wang,Pettitte,Joba WOW.
Re: CC character
When will CC and Arod pop in some Madonna tapes, terrorize the strip clubs and hit up the Kaballah center?
BFF?
You’re an Outlaw Pete.
Sorry, I’m listening to the new Bruce CD.
“Exactly, starts slow and no one will care about flying to FL or living in NJ.
I can’t wait to see…man, I don’t want to say see CC.”
Maybe we should stop crucifying our baseball heros when they have a bad stretch, CC had a miserable start to 2008, I’m afraid of what would happen if he had the same start to the season in NY, even though he wound up with some of the best numbers of any pitcher last year. It still shocks me what many Yankee fans did to A-Rod in seasons when he only hit 35hr’s and 100+ rbi’s.
Randy: I appreciate the effort you took to reply to my post, but I don’t think you really answered my questions. I was asking (1) what skills or traits Hughes NEEDS in order to become “MLB-ready” and (2) how can we, on the outside, know when he has acquired them (other than by his pitching in the majors and having success at that level)?
GB did answer the first part at least. He wrote:
”[Hughes] can work on getting more movement on his fastball, sharpening up his curve and changeup…possibly even adding a 4th pitch if for nothing more than just to show.” Perhaps you share this asssessment? I’m not sure, because your post continues to speak in terms of generalities, e.g., Hughes is “behind”, is not “ready,” or is “slow to develop” (paraphrasing).
The second part of my question—how will the rest of us know when Hughes is “ready”?—is important in view of your original comment suggesting it was foolish to believe as of May 2007 that Hughes was “ready” for the big leagues. Clearly, it seems safe to say that now, with the benefit of hindsight, but what publicly-available information existed in May 2007 to indicate Hughes would need another two years in the minors? He was already the top pitching prospect in the country and seemingly had nothing left to prove in the minors.
Also, let’s not conflate concepts here. Everybody agrees that Hughes can’t crack the current Yankees rotation and therefore belongs at SWB to start 2009. That, however, doesn’t mean he’s not “MLB-ready.”
BTW, I am in no way denigrating your experience and expertise on this stuff. It certainly sounds like you know what you’re talking about. But I would like to hear something more specific than “he’s not ready” to explain why Hughes doesn’t belong in the majors.
[REPOST]
I think # 6 will be handed out at spring training.
But then derek jeter will protest outside the facility with a sign saying “I love A-Fraud”, while chanting “Mr. Torre is still my hero”
I can’t wait to see big CC pitch in pinstripes. He has a ton of talent, should be fun to watch.
“But then derek jeter will protest outside the facility with a sign saying “I love A-Fraud”, while chanting “Mr. Torre is still my hero” ”
LOL, you never to crack a joke at any moment. hmm, female verison of Nick?
The Yankees may try to hand out #6, but that doesn’t mean that the player has to take it. I’d be surprised if a player agreed to wear #6.
Torre does look a little like Moe Greene
“Maybe we should stop crucifying our baseball heros when they have a bad stretch, CC had a miserable start to 2008, I’m afraid of what would happen if he had the same start to the season in NY, even though he wound up with some of the best numbers of any pitcher last year. It still shocks me what many Yankee fans did to A-Rod in seasons when he only hit 35hr’s and 100+ rbi’s.”
Chris maybe you’re speaking in general but since you quoted my comment let me make this quite clear. I don’t think they should be crucified. I’ve never booed and I think people who do are stupid. Just because I don’t do, doesn’t mean I’m not aware that some people are. I was making the statement that people WILL do it–but lets be clear, I won’t be one of them. I never have been, never will.
“When will CC and Arod pop in some Madonna tapes, terrorize the strip clubs and hit up the Kaballah center?”
Now that’s working hard to ingatiate oneself!
Be-friending Damon? Dinner with Joba? Golf with Jeter? Cakewalks!
Lara, I have no doubt that there will be those who will boo and hiss CC, Tex, AJ the minute they struggle. I have no use for those people – I just can’t take them seriously as fans.
Even IF CC starts slow, as an opposing team you still have to get through AJ, Wang, Petite and Joba. Thats three additional # 1′s (on most other teams). This rotation makes me all giddy.
according to newsday:
The Yankees are considering including a “non-disparagement clause” in future player and managerial contracts in order to prevent any more tell-all books such as “The Yankee Years,” co-written by Joe Torre and Tom Verducci.
___________________
I wonder what impact, if any, will this blog be affected by this non-disparagement clause. We will find out which poster are from the yankees front office
CC=Team Player. Man its been so long since we had a dominant leader in the staff a guy who wanted to take the ball every 5th day.
These guys got paid a lot of money for sure, but they might actually be a group of guys you can actually genuinely like and cheer for beyond just being a member of the Yankees.
is it just me or is this the best team we’ve had *on paper* in a long time? cash has done a seriously good job all winter.
an am i wrong in thinking that melky’s contract makes him virtually a lock for the team?
Did anybody else catch Larry Bowa on the WFAN yesterday? He explained that only some coaches would call him A-Fraud in a playful manner and the book took many things put of context.
“CC=Team Player. Man its been so long since we had a dominant leader in the staff a guy who wanted to take the ball every 5th day.”
- – - – - – - – - – - –
We had Pavano to do that, Al. He took it every 5th day. Unfortunately Carl would then just take the ball straight home with him and watch the game on TV.
CC is a class act. Beckett on the other hand…
Pete
Before you blog (especially in tight, clutch situations), do you think you need to sit in an incredibly hot sauna and then be rubbed down with Ben Gay or Icy Hot, especially “down there?”
I mean, it worked for Roger, didn’t it? I’m not sure the Stiletto and Lace web commercials are enough to raise your game to the next level, are they?
Ed – spring training can’t start soon enough
January 29th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
soo….if Torre’s books turns out what it is, who thinks the Yanks will issue out #6 during Spring Training?
The Yankees have always been above the clown stuff (well except for YMCA and Cotton Eyed Joe) – and have never had a mascot.
I say – new stadium – it’s about time for change.
*Introducing the new 2009 NYY mascot – the Yankee Rat.*
He’ll have a cute long tail and adorable whiskers to please the kids. He’ll wear a # 6 uniform to satisfy the adults.
I used to think team chemistry was only important for amateur athletics. I used to think that money was the one common ground that professional players could rally around. Then i watched the Tampa Bay Rays play this yr and I realized, team camaraderie is very very important. If derek jeter just stood up for Arod two yrs ago, all of this team chemistry crap would be a moot point. I dont understand how guys who get paid to PLAY a game, just cant find a way to get along. I think most of these players are over paid babies who most certainly wouldnt make it in “the real world”. I truly believe that championships are a result of 100% teamwork. No blaming or pointing fingers. I sorta feel bad for Arod – he has been the scapegoat for far too long. Time to move on and become the Yankees of 2009.
“an am i wrong in thinking that melky’s contract makes him virtually a lock for the team?”
No more of a lock than Kei Igawa and his $4M make him a lock for the team. Melky’s contract for this year is the natural progression for a player of his MLB service time and “accomplishments”. He will only get the nod over Gardner, IMO, if their on field play is equal, or if Melky is clearly superior in ST.
I believe Melky is out of options (meaning he can’t be sent down to AAA without passing through waivers first).
Here’s what I’m wondering. Was it professional for Verducci to write all that stuff? I mean, Pete implies he knows more clubhouse gossip than is in that book, but he never writes it.
Pete is a beatwriter. He’d never get back in that clubhouse.
he’s playing golf! what a guy!
I posted in the previous thread that I wondered if this book will adversely affect the beat writers for the Yankees, making it more difficult for them to have the access to which they’ve become accustomed. Instead of being able to interview players post-game in the clubhouse, will the Yankees make players available in the controlled environment of a media room? You know, player behind a table, one at a time, moderator choosing the questioners -like after a playoff game.
It will be interesting to find out, I think.
And wouldn’t that be ironic – if the Yankees institute a stricter policy for team interviews as a result of a book by Joe Torre, the guy that, as Pete said, understood how to work with the media, making their jobs a bit easier.
Yankees are considering that all managers, coaches and players sign confidentiality agreements. not sur if they will have all employess, but, i assume that would be the case. That’s a great idea…finally. There is too much of this kind of “sensationalized book writing” and too many leaks to the vultures about personal issues of other people/players. If that was done n the private sector, employers would can their azses in a heartbeat.
I don’t need to know that Johnny Damon was so frustrated that he couldn’t produce because of injuries to his legs. His legs are the major part of his game and he’d never had that problem before. I didn’t need to know that Rodriguez had what he thought was a private and personal conversation with Torre, only to find out what was said, but that Rodriguez was nervous and twisted his wedding ring. If want to read crap like that, I’ll read National Enquirer or Star.
Torre would go ballistic if somebody, like one of his ex-wives or one of his former coaches that he allowed to be fired so he could save his own job. If people weren’t such voyeurs or sleaze mongers, these books wouldn’t be written.
Drew how is the new album?
brian -
I’m not Drew, but I love Springsteen’s new album.
Pete would obviously have more info on this, but I think the Yankees could not limit access to their players-MLB rules and all.
I don’t know Girardi very well, but I don’t think the Yankees would need such a clause for him. Of course his star isn’t as big as Torre’s so the demand for his “view” might not be there, but Girardi (ironically with the help of Torre) is a “true” Yankee. I know, I know. There’s that stupid phrase again. But, you can tell that Girardi loves the Yankees. Well, at least until he’s kicked out the door.
Not that he’ll say a word, but, MLBTV will have “an indepth interview” with Jeter tonight on Hotstove. As I said, you’d find out what he’s thinking by doing what writers do…invent something.
lol GB you stole the words right outta my mouth, should be interesting, who knows, maybe he will say something of value, or maybe not. lol more likely the latter.
Lots of businesses have confidentiality agreements for various reasons, usually to protect trade secrets or the like. You build up a competitive advantage and you are entitled to protect it.
There are also jobs serving celebs or the filthy rich (or the Royals in Jolly old England), where the nature of the employment relationship inherently entails the exchange of very sensitive, private information, that, if released, would tend to devalue the individual involved or subject them to ridicule somehow not befitting them or us.
But Jeez, Louise … we are talking about ballplayers here, not Presidents, Kings and Queens.
Look, the Yankees can certainly try to crack down on people who badmouth them, and who make money doing so, but where does that lead? It just makes the Yankees look petty, IMO, but much worse than that, it inevitably leads to only bland, sanitized, no content, “authorized” books about the Yankees. BIG YAWN.
For such a bunch of supposed macho men, everybody is behaving like a bunch of sorority weenies, Torre included. Man up, boys.
Doreen,
I know I’m beating the poor horse to death, but going back to our conversation in the other thread…
Doubleday said that Torre only had control over his own words. Yet, Verducci said that Torre read the thing multiple times, leading me to believe that he had some kind of editorial powers.
If Torre takes the stance that he had no control over what was said and how it was said, I would LOVE for one of the beat writers to ask Torre what parts he objected to, but were left in at the discretion of Verducci and the publisher. Of course it’ll never happen. That’s not a softball question (I’m challenging you to stand up, Pete!).
Thanks Doreen. Probaly gonna download it
is Verducci going to be interviewing Jeter? That could be interesting.
you gotta have faith (pettite where art thou?)
January 29th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
lol GB you stole the words right outta my mouth, should be interesting, who knows, maybe he will say something of value, or maybe not. lol more likely the latter.
————————————————————
The onlything people will find out from Jeter is about the charity golf tournament (minus his score), the weather and “I haven’t read Mr.Torre’s book, yet, so I can’t respond, but, knowing him as I do, he was just trying to sell som books to donate the procedes to his “Safe AtHome” program. He’s a great guy.”
P. – “he didn’t say anything about me, but, he really nailed that other guy, didn’t he?”
GB7:
Though I agree that he’ll never let on, I bet Jetes is a little creeped out by the whole TYY thing. Kissin’ and tellin’ just ain’t his style.
Sorry, Murph, but, I wouldn’t want a personal and private conversation put t into public domain, and, esecially have the guy I told it to make a few million dollars from it. The personal things about a couple of the players and especially about George Steinbrenner’s condition is nothing less than sleaze with the intent to hurt. The book would have sold a few less copies. Big deal.
according to mlbtraderumors
When Alex Rodriguez was a free agent last winter, Joe Torre advised the Dodgers against signing him.
m -
That would be an excellent question, both in view of what Doubleday as stated and in view the quote attributed to Torre that he will probably get more credit/blame than he deserves. I don’t see it happening, though, because of the timing of the book. The season is upon us and I believe that the book tour interviews that have been scheduled are going to be soft-ball, Joe-friendly interviews – Regis, King & Letterman.
However, I’ve been doing a bit of thinking on it, and Letterman could throw a curve here. He doesn’t have the time and his is not the format to do an in depth, but he COULD, if he personally was disappointed by the book, toss Joe and unexpected criticism. I doubt Regis will. And even if King does, he’s more the type of interviewer who allows his guests to just tell their story.
I would think, though, going back to the idea that Joe was given several passes at the book before it was published, that if he strenuously objected to some content that, since his name is on it, and his is the name that is going to make the money on the book, that he would have the last word, in spite of what was said about only having veto power on certain things. But I obviously could be wrong about that. Don’t you think it would have been supremely foolish of him to agree to a book that might not reflect well on him? Or perhaps he really, really misjudged the reaction to how the book was put together, figuring that if what was written was true there wouldn’t be much controversy.
Oh, my, lots of typos in that prior post.
GB7,
You bring up a good point. There are quite a few (million) Yankee fans. Would a kinder, gentler book have been better? The book’s been panned by Olney & some other writers and trashed by indignant (maybe a little ignorant) fans.
“When Alex Rodriguez was a free agent last winter, Joe Torre advised the Dodgers against signing him.”
I wonder if he advised the Dodgers against trading for Manny too?
Yet, Verducci said that Torre read the thing multiple times,
—How do we know Torre can read? Esp. 400 pages.
murphydog
January 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
GB7:
Though I agree that he’ll never let on, I bet Jetes is a little creeped out by the whole TYY thing. Kissin’ and tellin’ just ain’t his style.
————————————————————
It’s going to be a huge distraction for him, Posada, Rivera and Rodriguez for a large portion of the year, whch does nobody a bit of good. I hav to wonder just how much this will affect the Torre/Jeter relationship, even though Jeter is left clean. He’s still caught up in the middle of it. It will have to put a strain on things. You also have to wonder what Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira are thinking. “Jesus…is the money worth this crap?”
murphydog -
You make an interesting point, but the Yankees are a brand, as we’ve been hearing so often lately. If someone writes a book totally smearing their image and the image of individual products within the brand, I don’t think it’s beyond reason to try to control that as much as they can. I hope they don’t go overboard, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, because as we also often hear, there’s really no such thing as bad publicity, is there? Is there?
Also, right now they are a team that is in a transition with regard to the Steinbrenners. Yes, it’s now finalized that Hal (and Hank) run the team rather than George, but it’s a learning curve. There are bound to be missteps in all aspects of running the team. Now, on top of that, there’s a bit of damage control. Who needs it?
GB7:
I hear you.
Just having a hard time finding the happy medium between free speech and privileged celebrity on the one hand versus clubhouse confidentiality on the other.
m,
I think the more sensationalist the book, the better it sells.
No matter how a baseball fan feels about Torre or the Yankees, a behind-the-scenes look at baseball’s most famous team is tantalizing. I’d bet the nastiest stuff in the book is also the most compelling.
m
Don’t ask Pete to do your dirty work.
Call Larry King on Friday night and ask him yourself. I’ll be listening for “Mel from Hawaii go ahead”.
pat,
Maybe I should pose as Torre’s housekeeper? Deep Polish.
GB
Harold Reynolds usually does the Jeter interview for MLBTV so it’s not likely going to be all that in-depth. They’ll giggle and cliche there way through it.
Doreen:
Was it PT Barnum who said “there’s no such thing as bad publicity as long as they spell your name right”?
Frankly, I would think the only kind of book left for Torre to write is a book about how it was to manage the Yankees over the span of his 12 years. No one wants a game-by-game description, and nobody will buy generalities.
In light of the difficult separation and the big names on the team, there really was only one way to go that would make this book a top seller, and that was to go into details that people don’t necessarily know.
He could say, “It was really a challenge to manage some of these players. They had their ups and downs and I had to deal with that a still make them play their best on the field.”
Thats, what, 2 sentences? Big deal. What makes a book is the other stuff. What exactly were the ups and downs? Which players were the most difficult? Etc.
There was no other kind of book for Torre to write. This was going to be the book. The only difference, maybe, would be that if he waited a couple of years, he might have thought better about whether a book was necessary, or, perhaps what people would want out of such a book might be a little different. I really don’t know.
ops I do know the difference between there and their.
I don’t know if this has been seen or discussed, but it is an excerp from the book. I hate to admit it, but I found it very moving, and very much how I interpretted the situation last year.
http://tinyurl.com/cg4hx7
Doreen,
See, that’s the thing. It’s a perspective of the Yankees from the last 12 years with all the changes in the game, steroids (Joe denies any knowledge, so what else do they touch on?), etc, etc.
So why not have Verducci write/edit such an encylopedic book? And just quote Torre?
The disection/distinction is not as clean as Torre/Verducci/Doubleday would like us to believe.
m
I believe that LaRussa did a similiar book a few years ago. The difference was he acted as primary source for the book, provided quotes but took no author credit and did no promotion for it. Quotes were his, everything else wasn’t. Clean.
murphydog -
Lots of great quotes on publicity at this site:
http://thinkexist.com/search/s.....038;page=2
Like:
“Publicity can be terrible. But only if you don’t have any.” by Jane Russell
Per Stark, the Yankees are “softening” on the idea of trading Swisher, with the Braves the top suitor. I’ve always assumed the market for Nady was pretty miniscule, due to his contract and better outfield bats being on the FA market. No way the Braves part with Hanson, Heyward, Rohrbough, or Schafer. Wonder if they’d move Gorkys Hernandez for him????
More Hardball wants to know who has the hottest fans in baseball. We’ll be running a set of posts over the following weeks featuring images of each teams’ hotties, with a voting poll to crown a champion. We’re starting with the AL East and we’ll continue through the rest of the American League, then on to the National League. Sticking true to Major League Baseball’s roots, there will be an eight team playoff system where the winners of each division square off with addition of a wild card team to determine who wins the pennant and represents each league in the World Series of Hotness. Link-http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2009/01/hottest-fans-of-al-east_29.html
m
January 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
GB7,
You bring up a good point. There are quite a few (million) Yankee fans. Would a kinder, gentler book have been better? The book’s been panned by Olney & some other writers and trashed by indignant (maybe a little ignorant) fans.
————————————————————
Most Yankee fans will buy anything that says “Yankees”. It would have sold a ton of books. Most of the newspapers are getting courtesy copies, I would assume.
I when I got home from Vietnam, “Ball Four” was just hitting the book stores, so I bought it, read it, and hated it because of the things it said about Mantle and others. By today’s standards, it was harmless…like reading a book version of Animal House”.
I guess the difference now, is that so many Yankee fans dislike Rodriguez, that they won’t care, but, a lot of people really do like Damon. I think the phoniness of his message about keeping this within the family/clubhouse is what will upset people the most…that and the Steinbrenner info. People have always had two different views on George…he’s a meddling loudmouthed, cruel man that poured every dime he had into gettig the best, and would give people the shirt off of his back, even if he did call a press conference to announce it.
Seriously, though, George was an extremely geneous person, and, for whatever reason, een after he got rid of somebody, he always brought them back to do something.
I have a friend here (Yes, Randy I, hard to believe) who’s son interned for the Yanks, both in NY and Tampa. My friend said the kid was fired asbout 5 times a month. after the first time, he was packing up his things and somebody told him to just leave things there, go home, come back the next day and pretend that nothing happened. Nothing ever did. Part of his job was taking the limo to the airport to pick up VIPs like Mantle and DiMaggio. Still had to get Mantle his scotch and soda and DiMaggio his 1/2 cup of coffee. Seems like ball players have alway had people getting their coffee.
The best part is that he plans to move to “New Jersey.”
GreenBeret7, it seems that your friend was pulling a George Constanza where he goes back to work the next day pretending nothing happened after he got fired.
Doubleday said that Torre only had control over his own words. Yet, Verducci said that Torre read the thing multiple times, leading me to believe that he had some kind of editorial powers.
————
In other words, even if it didn’t have quotes around it, it was Torre’s words.
m -
The only answer to that question (why not write an encycloopedic book with quotes provided by Torre) is that there existed the opportunity to extract a bit of revenge, I guess.
I also have a feeling that for some reason Torre has heard the “anyone could have managed those teams” arguments and wanted to leave no doubt that he wasn’t just a figure head. But I think it backfires, ultimately, because he seems to be making excuses for why a manager as accomplished and successful as he had been didn’t win the WS again after 2000.
And the sad part is, I believe he did get a lot of the credit for taking the team to the playoffs every year. It may not have been good enough in Yankeeland, or for some Yankees fans, but I think the rest of baseball understands the difficulty of fielding a winning team every year. I guess Torre needed people to know just exactly how difficult a job he had.
You know what? I’m starting to get tired of the sound of my own voice on this. Too much armchair psychology. Backing off now.
pat
January 29th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
ops I do know the difference between there and their.
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That doesn’t annoy me as much as the people that don’t knowthe difference beteen “then and than” and “accept and except” and “insure and ensure”.
And using “and” too many times.
Appropos of absolutely nothing – it is just so nice to be sitting here at 4:17 p.m. with sunlight still streaming through my windows. It might still be cold, but at least it’s not dark!!!!
I’ve got to get a new laptop. this one is just about cooked. Too many trips to the desert. Misses keystrokes and slowing down.
I am very much looking forward to CC Sabathia being a part of this team, and that’s a complete 180 for me.
Sean Serritella
January 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
GreenBeret7, it seems that your friend was pulling a George Constanza where he goes back to work the next day pretending nothing happened after he got fired.
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I don’t know much about that show, I’ve only seen “Seinfeld” maybe 4-5 times. Just wasn’t my kind of show.
Doreen
The armchair psychology thing is what makes the Torre/A-Rod dynamic interesting. All things that Joe has issue with in Alex are many of the same things others say about Joe. Too much alike.
Don’t we all have family members like that?
pat -
Oh, yes.
Isn’t that what makes the holidays so, um, dynamic? 
“Appropos of absolutely nothing – it is just so nice to be sitting here at 4:17 p.m. with sunlight still streaming through my windows. It might still be cold, but at least it’s not dark!!!!”
and hopefully, my driveway doesn’t look like a skating rink when i get home later…
If it is indeed true that Arod was treated poorly in the Yankee clubhouse, that reflects much worse on the players and coaches who did it, and let it happen, than it does on Arod himself. Here is one of the 3 or 4 greatest players of this generation, offering to switch positions, and he is going to be much more of a force to helping this team win than the guy he replaced; and the vets and coaches are so full of petty jealousy that they go out of their way to make him uncomfortable. Just who is the selfish party here? If you really are all about winning, don’t you try to help make the new guy comfortable? Especially if you see him struggling with it.
pat
January 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Doreen
The armchair psychology thing is what makes the Torre/A-Rod dynamic interesting. All things that Joe has issue with in Alex are many of the same things others say about Joe. Too much alike.
Don’t we all have family members like that?
————————————————————
My family is like that. They’re all strange because they’re all alike. Except me…I’m the only normal one.
j/k Ma. Nobody like you.
“I hear you.
Just having a hard time finding the happy medium between free speech and privileged celebrity on the one hand versus clubhouse confidentiality on the other.”
– - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - –
Me too. I guess the sad but true moral of the story is that you just can’t trust anyone. Even those that preach: “anything said in here stays in here.”
“I’ve got to get a new laptop. this one is just about cooked. Too many trips to the desert. Misses keystrokes and slowing down.”
—–
get one with a keyboard like this:
http://tinyurl.com/d94fbg
it may cut back on your spelling errors
saucy,
When my husband and I were looking for a house 9 years ago, one of the things on his must-have list was a house with a southern exposure so that when we had a light snowfall or a light ice coating, by the time he would get home from work, most of the clearing work would have been done by the sun. It’s worked out pretty good most of the time. Especially here in NJ, where we don’t get a lot of snow anyway, and a lot of times it clears up by afternoon or the next morning.
test
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3855674
Check out this pretty funny video of ESPN the Magazine’s Rick Reilly comparing the Yanks N’ Cowboys in terms of their underachievement…
I love how he tries to compare the signings of CC, AJ, and Tex to the likes of Kevin Brown etc., who was past his prime… What? Forget the fact that CC is 27-28 and Tex is 27-28, and AJ is 31-32, but i’m sure had the Brewers retained CC and the Red Sox signed Tex, he wouldn’t B whining about their age!
Oh, and then he says, “the best teams are the ones that are built from within.” Huh? First of all, the signings of CC, AJ, & Tex R a direct result of the Yanks’ new-found emphasis on player developememt! They didn’t trade Hughes, Kennedy etc. for Santana because they wanna “build from within” and they waited for a situation where they would only have to pay money and not give up prospects. Heck, they even missed the playoffs as a direct result of going with the kids, a typical “re-building” situation…
But no, if they don’t trade kids for Santana, they’re crazy. If they don’t sign CC, they’re stingy. And if they do sign CC, they’re – WAAAAAAAAHHH – outspending everybody else and its seen as “abandoning thier player developement.” How is combining established top-of-the-line veterans with great young talent considered “not building from within?” It’s the best proven strategy for winning. The Red Sox top 4 players are not homegrown. Beckett, Papi, Manny, and Dice-K were all signings or trades. But when the Yankees lose, it’s because “they don’t build from within.”
Even the Yanks dynasty had top players like Wetteland, Cone, Wells, Clemens, O’Neil, etc. who weren’t homegrown. Why? Because they were COMBINED with players like Bernie, Mo, Derek, Posada etc. That’s the best strategy. Just like the Sox combine those guys with Pimplebutt, Lester, etc. And that’s exactly what the Yanks are trying to do, to combine these free agents with Joba, Hughes, A-Jax and Malancon.
But of course, whatever the Yankees do, the hatin’ media will point out the bad things. Whatever the Yanks do is wrong. But U don’t hear them do all the whining when the Sox do it. Why? because it worked for the Sox. So just because it hasn’t worked for the Yanks, it’s “WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH – oustspending, bad for the game, abandoning player developement, etc.”
“Sean Serritella January 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
GreenBeret7, it seems that your friend was pulling a George Constanza where he goes back to work the next day pretending nothing happened after he got fired.”
*************************************************
Pulling a Costanza? There are many ways to do that … For example, I’ve been pulling the Coastanza where I’ve taken up sleeping under my desk at work.
One more armchair psychologist thought:
These guys spend more time with their teams than their families. They are their de facto families for a good part of the year. There absolutely needs to be trust in that locker room. Not for the silly peculiarities and foibles that most humans have that usually make for fun reading if told in anecdotal form, but for the really serious things that they may be going through at one point or another during a season that is no one’s business.
saucY
January 29th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
“I’ve got to get a new laptop. this one is just about cooked. Too many trips to the desert. Misses keystrokes and slowing down.”
——-
get one with a keyboard like this:
http://tinyurl.com/d94fbg
it may cut back on your spelling errors
————————————————————
I don’t make speling errors. Some of the keys are in the wrong space, though. Need to fix them or get a new computer.
I’m in Tampa (it’s pouring out now) for the rest of the week.
Without burning any confidences, the book won’t be a big deal and CC Sabathia is a very nice.
That’s all I have on that subject.
Murph,
Hopefully the confidentiality clause mania dies a quick death.
As a wise man (my dad) once told me, you can’t legislate character.
You either have it or you don’t.
Meant to say CC is a very nice guy.
Doreen
The snow melts in my driveway too. By June!!!! lol
Doreen, it appears that Mariano Rivera is the Father Confessor to most players on that team. I’ve never heard a word about him not befriending anybody on the team, including trying to help Pavano. If he could have gotten through to Pavano, he wold have been up for sainthood for providing a miracle.
I’m very glad CC is embracing New York now and fitting in well with the team. I can’t say how hype I am to see him on the mound at the new Yankee Stadium.
As for what Joe Torre said in his new book. I actually don’t think it was as bad as people are making it out to be but I would love to see what else is in the book once it’s released.
SJ44
January 29th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Meant to say CC is a very nice guy.
————————————————————
I was curious about that. I was trying to fit in “a very nice eater; nice golfer; nice dresser…nice guy was my next guess.
Ok, for my new Manny angle:
MLBTR says the Yankees are softening on trading swisher. While I don’t want to trade him, it may make it easier to sign Manny.
If you trade both Nady and Swisher then you have to play Manny in RF. Trading Matsui is the hardest part of my previous scenario but I am looking for any angle.
Matsui would be the DH and Damon in LF with Manny in RF.
This is not my dream scenario but anyway to get Manny into the 5 hole works for me.
Nady and Swisher can both be moved and maybe we get a catching prospect back or another OF for depth if manny is our RF.
I’ll keep trying but we need a better 5 hitter.
Lineup really doesn’t change much just a worse defense than Manny at DH and swish in RF.
Damon
Jeter
Tex
Arod
Manny
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Melky
I would think that Burnett is liked by some on the team from what was said about players lobbying for him to sign with the Yankees.
Its nice CC is getting along with everyone but i dont think it matters THAT much if he gets along with everyone as long as he pitches like an ace. Frankly, a team has good chemistry when they live up to expectations or exceed them in a given season and may have bad chemistry when they fail miserably or fall far short of expectations. iTS not as exact a science as that above but if the yanks win the world series next year, do you think they will all hate each other as the season wears on? Not if everyone is doing well.
Problems come when teammates criticize others for failing to play well on the field which sparks controversy. I know certain teams can have problems throughout a season and still win or perform terribly and still get along but those are often the exceptions and not the rule.
Will everyone get along all the time in yankee world? No just like in the real world not everyone likes everyone else but so called “team chemistry” is most often achieved through great team performance at least in my opinion. Do teams with good chemistry and no talent win? Probably not. Do team with incredible talent and bad chemistry win? I would say that is more likely than the former. Finally, does team chemistry result in a winning environment or does winning lead to team chemistry? I would take the latter but certainly that could be up for debate.
If most of us had CC’s paycheck, we’d eat nice, golf nice, dress nice, etc too.
Some would still find ways to be an irritant though.
YankeeRay
You really are persistent. I’ll give you credit for not giving up even if I don’t agree.
David Wells on Michael Kay on ESPN 1050 AT 5:00 pm (3 minutes). If nothing else, it should be entertaining.
COOL THANKS… just put it on.
If had CC’s paycheck I’d still be an awful golfer. I’ve broken clubs, hit the ball sideways, and have lost to many golf balls to remember.
And I’ve only been golfing once.
my driveway is a mess. goes along the north end of the house, but luckily the sidewalk and walkway in front of the house gets sun. part of the back yard where we park too.
i have to walk along the driveway to get to my car in the back though, since the back door to my place is pretty much useless now (yard full of snow… too much to shovel a path thru).
pretty much woke up to the sounds of spinning tires this morning…
Laura08
“Chris maybe you’re speaking in general but since you quoted my comment let me make this quite clear. I don’t think they should be crucified. I’ve never booed and I think people who do are stupid. Just because I don’t do, doesn’t mean I’m not aware that some people are. I was making the statement that people WILL do it—but lets be clear, I won’t be one of them. I never have been, never will.”
Sorry about that Laura, no way was I refering to you at all, I just can’t imagine going to work every day and people booing me if I was still doing a great job. I think sometimes the Yankee fan needs to be self critical about how they effect their players.
I know alot of you don’t want to talk about the Celtics but I think they are na good example of team chemistry.
I remember when ONeil and Brosius lost their faters that was a bond on the team.
fathers
LOL…well Boomer didn’t hold back.
What’d he say?
For those of us that can’t get Kay’s show, would someone please paraphrase.
I think Joe writing this book is going to open the floodgates for a lot of his past players, and they’re going to have no problem telling their side of the story, and everything seems to be making Joe look bad instead of the players. Exhibit A: David Wells.
Boomer unloading on Joe!
Boomer saying Joe basically had “his guys” and saying Joe didn’t respect a lot of people in his eyes. “He is out of his you know what” – Boomer on Torre
Not too Earth shattering. And its Boomer so take it how you want or not.
If I’m not mistaken he said Joe wasn’t a nice guy. I could be wrong but I’m sure it will be on the podcast.
That when Gabe White came they didn’t talk to him for two weeks and he asked Boomer, “Is this how it is around here? No one talks to you?”
Treated guys differently and if you weren’t one of his guys he didn’t care about you.
In his opinion Joe didn’t respect people.
Wells “You know what I am gonna go buy his book. He can have his $27 bucks. Just to see what BS is in it”
David Wells is exhibit A of why this book did not need to be written.I think we all know that Wells and Torre didnt get along but Wells would have kept his mouth shut on his true feelings about Torre but now that Torre has fired the first salvo so to speak Wells is just letting it all hang out and leashing on Torre and this will be picked up everyone.
This didnt need to happen.
Lara08
Thanks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....ings090129
The Yankees are making a mistake if they trade Swisher..
Thoughts?
This is all so silly. In a month no one is going to care at all.
Wasn’t it Casey who said that the key to managing was keeping the 50% of the guys who hate you away from the half that wasn’t sure?
So it’s some big surprise that some of the guys didn’t like Torre?
As for Boomer:
His fine when he wrote his book was $165,000, not $100,000! He said Joe “is not a bad manager, but he’s a bad person”….confirming that Joe had “his” guys (Paul, Andy, Mo, Jeter, Clemens). He would go out of his way for these players and it was obvious…Joe didn’t like him at all. He wouldn’t Wells to turn his music down, he would just go and do it.
More – Joe gives cold shoulders to people, etc…..
Thus far, a very revealing interview and I would recommend a listen. I’m going to listen to it again later.
Boomer and Kay both think this will affect A-Rod because if A-Rod slumps, fans will call him A-Fraud. I’m worried about this, to be honest.
Ouch Kay once again throws the salvos at Moose
Wells suggested that Mo go talk to Moose about what he said and Kay said “That would probably be the first time Mussina would talk to a teammate”
Exhibit B of why this book didnt need to be written
Everyone is talking about context. Does Kay know the context in which Moose mentioned Mo? Because right now he and Boomer sound stupid.
Pavano speaks:
“I am extremely disappointed that someone I had a lot of respect for would make these type of comments in his upcoming book,” Pavano said in a statement released to 1050 ESPN New York’s Andrew Marchand through Pavano’s agent, Tom O’Connell. “I wish nothing but the best for Joe Torre and my former Yankee teammates, but with that said it does explain why I haven’t received any Christmas cards from Joe the last few years.”
maineyankee,
yEA the celtic have great team chemistry but they also have tremendous team talent and a winning team. Which matters more – the talent or the chemistry to result in winnng? I would have to say the talent plays a much bigger role but the chemistry may work in their advantage too.
Also meant to add that – it’s disgraceful for Torre to have advised the Dodgers not to sign A-Rod (if true) as a free agent. The idea is to make your team better and A-Rod improves any team. You can not take things personally in this business. Wasn’t Colangelo fired by the Diamondbacks for letting his hatred for Steinbrenner get in the way of a good deal for Schilling? He took much less from Boston than he was asking from the Yankees. How is that a good way to do business?
Nothing was ever etched in stone that No. 6 would be retired but it won’t be issued this year. At his age, Jesus Montero could be on a fast track to get the number if he keeps moving up the farm system ladder.
According to the book it says Moose said Mo blew the 01 series and the 04 ALCS. Wow!
On ESPN.com
“I think it’s important to understand context here. The book is not a first-person book by Joe Torre, it’s a third-person narrative based on 12 years of knowing the Yankees and it’s about the changes in the game in that period,” Verducci told the site. “Seems to me the New York Post assigned this third-person book entirely to Joe Torre and that’s not the case.”
If this is the case and Joe didn’t tell Verducci these things, why did they pay him $2mil up front and are giving him half the royalties? If he didn’t really contribute to the book, why pay out the cash? Verducci is trying like crazy to take the heat off of Torre, but as long as Torre’s name is on that book, he will fail.
Laura: what you didn’t mention is that Pavano strained his larynx issuing that statement and is going to miss the first two weeks of spring training.
Boomer suggested fans go to the Met’s games when Joe is in town and boo him
To my understanding it was in the context of Moose saying that everyone blames the lack of rings on “the new guys”. But some of the “Old guard” have to take hits for that too. But when its all said and done the same theme is “We haven’t won since [insert free agent here] arrived.”
He gives his example of Mo messing up unlike during the dynasty times.
“Laura: what you didn’t mention is that Pavano strained his larynx issuing that statement and is going to miss the first two weeks of spring training.”
LMAO!!!
Its funny how I got yelled at for posting an anti-Torre comment on here a few months ago. Now Torre throws half of his former players under the bus and everyone agrees with me. Although I wasn’t aware of this book until the rest of you were I did have a feeling that Joe T was harboring a lot of bad emotion toward the Yanks and this book confirms it. I hope the Dodgers make the World Series so “A-fraud” can hit a walk-off against Torre and his boys.
To me, the most scathing and most on target review is from Olney. He basically calls Torre out. Boomer comes off as a bitter ex-player. Olney’s assessment seems more objective.
I hate this Torre book
Vito -
I love Mo, but if you want to bring the situation down to the very, very basics, without extenuating circumstances or broken bats or lousy set-up guys or whatever, Mo did blow the 2001 series and in 2004, well, he blew the would-be clinching game which led to the debacle.
(Believe me, I don’t like to say this out loud.)
Gayle -
You’re so right. Now, license is given to all the malcontents, all the people who didn’t like Torre or vice versa. Plus, Carl Pavano gets to sound like a good guy.
And “A-Fraud” will definitely be the heckle de rigueur at all the away parks, and sad to say, during home games when he’s in a slump. I hope he just buys a really good pair of ear plugs. Or starts to practice zen or something.
You can be bitter and telling the truth, which is what I say about Torre. But I hear you Laura…its easy for people to dismiss Boomer.
You are so right on Buster’s article. After I read it I just said, “That’s it.” Buster was speaking on principle and wasn’t concerning himself with who did the book, how much he liked him or how much he liked or didn’t like the guys at the other end.
Sorry but anyone who thinks Pavano is a good guy is an idiot.
For what’s its worth, I’m still grateful for the 4 championships. I’m still anxious to see who will take #6 if the books turns out what it is.
There will def be A-Fraud chants. Or Stalker chants.
“Sorry but anyone who thinks Pavano is a good guy is an idiot.”
Not to worry – that list only includes his parents, siblings and whoever the stripper is that he’s currently dating.
Doreen,
you mean A-Rod should be that spirtual guy from the movie Major Leagues? LOL
E-Man -
I didn’t say Pavano was a good guy. I SAID, the book gave the opportunity for Pavano to SOUND like a good guy. Big difference.
Most surprising thing to me from Wells interview was Tino wasn’t a “Torre Guy”.
If true, it might make it easier for him working with Cashman.
dave
No argument about the talent but alot of what I hear and read they truly like and respect each other. I think the same could be said for some of the Yankees teams of the 90s.
Ed – spring training can’t start soon enough :
Whatever works!!!
pat -
Might also explain why it seemed so easy for the Yankees to sign Giambi. I didn’t understand why they let Tino go at the time. Still really don’t. Though I did get used to Giambi.
“Boomer and Kay both think this will affect A-Rod because if A-Rod slumps, fans will call him A-Fraud.”
Didn’t he hear that all the time before this came out? Seems to me that with the treatment Arod gets in most away parks, being called A-fraud would be like a vacation.
And with the treatment he got at home in the ’06 season, there probably aren’t any worse things that anybody could say to him.
Careful, S.A., I think Torre might be Jacob.
People have referred to Arod as A-Fraud for a long time. Yankee fans, I mean. Others too, I suspect. But Jennifer Jason Leigh masks will be a new one this year.
Varitek is “very **seriously considering** the option of sitting out the 2009 season and/or **retiring** rather than accepting the contract offer made to him last week.”
-MLBTR
is Varitek pulling a Manny?
“And with the treatment he got at home in the ‘06 season, there probably aren’t any worse things that anybody could say to him.”
You raise a good point. A-Rod has been getting slammed by Yankees “fans” since he arrived. This book isn’t going to make that worse than it already is. At the most, it will only change what nasty things they say to him.
“Careful, S.A., I think Torre might be Jacob.”
Then how come he’s not sitting in a cabin on a deserted island w/ Claire?
Guys,
Moose is right! The whole point of his comments, if read in the context they were presented, were basically saying that Mo has not performed nearly as well since Moose came to the yanks than he had performed previously. Lets see – 95 – 2000, Mo helped the yankees win four rings and go to the playoffs every season. After 2000, Mo lose game 7 of the world series. Then, in the bottom of the ninth in game 4 of the ALCS, Mo loses the lead for the yanks and the whole series turns around from that inning on. Before 2001, Mo did not do these things. After Moose came to the yanks, two big booboos. From our POV, Mo is amazing because he helped us win four rings. From Moose’s POV, he was amazing for the yanks before Moose came and has not performed nearly as well since. That was his whole point and he is right. You cannot argue against the fact that mO was far better in the playoffs before Moose was around as Mo never lost a game or blew a save in the playoffs EVER before 2001.
Hahaha
How fan-freakin-tastic is LOST? I wonder what brand of eye-liner Richard Alpert uses
Laura: even mysterious island entities leave for book tours.
(sorry non-Lost watchers)
Varitek is “very seriously considering the option of sitting out the 2009 season and/or retiring rather than accepting the contract offer made to him last week.”
I hope this isn’t true. Varitek in a Red Sox uniform means they probably won’t be trading for a better option.
Varitek sucks now. Let him stay a Red Sock. Maybe he’ll hit .220 again.
Doreen,
I agree on the 01 Mo blown save. He had an un-Rivera like inning with the HBP and lost on a broken bat bloop with the IF in. The thing that kills me to this day is the Womack double. OBP of .300 and he doubles of Mo in the 9th. Still kills me thinking about it. That all said, I wasn’t a team mate like Moose was – Mo did save Moose’s 20th win only a few months ago. I need to read it myself but I am thinking Moose quote was taken out of context. I hope so at least.
maineyankee,
But did a winning team make the players like each other more or did the players like each other more which resulted in a winning environment? Its like which came first the chicken or the egg. I guess we will never know for sure and it may depend on the team which impacts the team more. Amazing talent and a lack of injuries certainly help a team succeed more than great chemistry i would think but im sure chemistry adds something to a team’s success.
If A-Rod could survive and thrive 4 years playing under Torre, he can survive and thrive a book he wrote when Torre is thousands of miles away.
This week I keep getting the feeling when Torre walked away after 2007, some people in the Yankee organization/clubhouse finally exhaled and others said oh 4 letter S word.
dave: hogwash. Mo was human in 1997 too. He’s always been human. The larger the sample size, the less perfect he’ll seem. Yes, Mo took the mound in 2001 with a chance to put away the World Series, but I think it’s unfair to pin the loss on him. Lots of other things happened in that series and in the 2004 ALCS that could have made the difference.
In fairness to Mo in 04 – The whole team choked for the last 3 games. If Tony Clark’s ball stays in play that series is over in 5 games.
“How fan-freakin-tastic is LOST? I wonder what brand of eye-liner Richard Alpert uses”
According to the makers of LOST, his eyes are naturally like that. I have never heard of a man being born with permanent eye liner on.
Laura: maybe he’s not a man? Did he look like that on Suddenly Seeking Susan?
vito,
the quote seems to be taken out of context quite frequently. If the entire comment is read, it is clear what moose is trying to get at even if each single sentence is not very complimentary. He says some stupid things in the process but in the end, it is clear that Moose is simply saying that Mo was far better in the playoffs before he got there then, after he arrived. No one can argue with that as Mo had not losses and no blown saves prior to 2001 and two after.
Mo actually never negatively impacted the results of a game before 2001 in any capacity. In 2001 – he lost the yanks Game 7 of the world series and in 2004, blew the save in game four of the ALCS. Those were two gigantic mistakes that likely cost the yanks two more rings. If we beat the dbacks in game 7 it would have been over and if Mo closed out the ninth inning of game four, we would have been heading to the World series against the weak cardinals who the sox swept. i CAN see Moose’s point pretty clearly.
According to the makers of LOST, his eyes are naturally like that. I have never heard of a man being born with permanent eye liner on.
============================================
For real? I don’t remember his eyes being like that before on that other show. Oh well, maybe I just never paid attention.
Part of me hopes this Varitek spurning the offer is true and part of me hopes it isn’t true.
On one hand I want a declining Varitek back in the sox lineup. It means they have a weak hitter and a catcher with poor throwing skills and they have no one to catch Wakefield.
On the other hand, I know what Theo is going to have to give up to bring in a non-sure-thing catcher and it’s going to cost them in prospects and I’d love to see them have to make a trade for a catcher.
I also think taking the Captain out of the clubhouse and putting the pressure on the new C to produce and learn the staff is a recipe for distraction/destruction.
dave
I’m not trying to over hype cemistry. Sorry if I made it sound that way. I think it can sometimes make the difference in the end result.
I’m a wee bit sad to hear talk of moving Swish the fish. I want to see what kind of bounce-back season he will have. It will be good to have such a happy-go-lucky guy and he seems to be a blue-collar worker type.
Speaking of, reading that excerpt about A-rod and how he preens. That part I don’t know about, but some of what Torre said kind of rang true to me. Especially the part of just getting the job done.
the varitek situation is most likely win-win from our perspective. odds are they are not going to have a catcher that will produce like varitek did in ’03 – ’05, whether he resigns or they obtain someone via trade.. and that is a good thing.
Nick,
First off, the sample size between 95 and 2000 is about as big as the sample size from 2001 to now. I see he was not flawless in 97 and i guess pretty much resulted in the loss of game four of the alds but his numbers in 96, 98 and 2000 are pretty exceptional. Afterwards, not as exceptional. Thats all Moose appeared to be saying. Agree or disagree – it does not matter but the point is Moose’s comments were not completely off the mark. They did make sense and most people would completely understand what he is saying unless they are blinded by their love of mariano.
G. Love
I think they still would nead to go out and trade for a young catcher either way. I don’t think they have anyone on the farm that is good enough at this time. I have heard they have talked to Texas and also Arizona about trading for a catcher. Sounds like their young pitchers are what they have been asking for.
I would love to have Varitek’s bat…in the Boston lineup. Buuuuttt….he is a key player for that team. Remember what happened in ’06 when he didn’t play down the stretch?
dave, I posit to you that I do understand what Moose is saying, that I am not blinded by love for Mariano, and that the more times a player, even a player as great as Mo, peforms in the post-season (or anytime), the more chances he has to be imperfect.
Call me nuts, but I still can’t get my mind around that it is being said that the Yankees teams of 2001-2007 was made up of a bunch of guys who weren’t gritty and that those were failed seasons. Really having trouble with that one. These guys fought to come from behind, often. These guys won their division except in 2007 they got the WC. I guess if they were gritty and weren’t selfish they would have won 115 games or more?
The lack of success in the playoffs had more to do with poor pitching and some bad managerial decisions and the ability of the opposing team to pitch its best pitchers and stymie the Yankees lineup.
I hate the characterization that these guys simply didn’t have what it takes.
Did I hear Francessa right – that Torre will be on his show on Tuesday?
“Remember what happened in ‘06 when he didn’t play down the stretch?”
many trolls have reminded me since then…
m
I’d like to see what Swish could offer too. I like guys who could have bounceback years and if not he can be a spare part.
Kim Jones be warned, he had an annoying laugh in the interview I heard the day he signed. Hoping it was just nerves.
Talk radio here in Me. was saying they thought the Yankees were considering Varitek in case Posada wasn’t ready. lol
I almost called in to tell them the Yankees weren’t that desperate.
Doreen
Torre on Tuesday- yes. No confirmed time yet.
nICK,
Very true – increasing innings pitched means more room for error. But you take the sample size from 95 to 2000 and the sample size from 2001 to now and graph them as two completely different seasons which would take time i DONT have, I think it would show that Mo was more exceptional before 2001 and the sample sizes are probably relatively close. Furthermore, Mo’s two worst mistakes that both may have cost the yanks and Mussina rings were in 2001 and 2004, both of which teams Moose was on. So I could see why he would say that Mo was better before his arrival in which Mo led the yanks to 4 rings and 6 playoff berths. Im not blaming Mo for it, Im just saying Moose makes a valid point if he wants to say mo has not been as exceptional since his arrival.
pat -
Thanks. I’ll have to make an exception and watch the show.
Maybe we can put together a charity production of “No No Nanette” in order to raise money to keep Veritek in Boston.
One of Bonds’s ex-teammates-Bobby Estella-turned states evidence and will testify against him later this year.
Where did they get Bonds’ sample? Was it from BALCO or MLB?
Does anyone know if Torre will go on Michael Kay’s show? That might be interesting since they don’t have the best of relationships.
MaineYankee
January 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
YankeeRay
You really are persistent. I’ll give you credit for not giving up even if I don’t agree.
——
Maine, sometimes too persistent for my own good.
I am just so hung up on the 5 hole in our line up with the question marks surrounding the health of Posada and Matsui along with a potentially weak CF spot.
You already know my many reasons why I think its a good fit so today I am just focused on our weakness in supporting Arod and the lack of certain depth beyond that.
Sine Boras said the train has left the station we will know soon and then I can move on.
Bobby Estella is not an ace.
dave: my perspective isn’t the same as Moose’s. All I’m saying is that Mo was mortal before Moose got there, Mo was mortal while Moose was there, and Mo will be mortal now that Moose is gone. I wish the Yanks could have won a title during Moose’s tenure. I blame Tom Verducci.
Dorreen,
I agree wholeheartedly with your point. Grit is just not all that relevant to championships. A team needs lights out pitching with a strong starting three (or in 2001 dbacks amazing starting two) and very solid pen which is THE most important thing to have in the playoffs. Second most important is clutch hitting, not homerun hitting or great hitting just clutch hitting. Lastly, a team needs flawless defense and good managing, not great but good.
The yanks have not had a lights out staff since their last world series round in 2003 composed of clemens, pettitte, Moose and Wells all of whom pitched over 200 innings and to a 3 or low 4 era – shocking that we made the world series that year and never since and that was the last year we had a fantastic rotation I know. The yanks have not been able to consistently hit in the playoff clutch since the first 3 games of the 2004 ALCS in which we won 10-7, 3-1 and 19-8. Not surprisingly, we needed the hitting to overcome the lack of pitching and only made it to the ALCS and not the WS.
This is the last time we made it to the alcs and probably the last time we showed consistent clutch hitting. This is not shocking news i KNOW but it is an excellent example of just how far a team can go with lights out pitching and clutch hitting, just clutch hitting or neither in the playoffs.
Nick,
Me too. What an @$$…
What is the status of Phil Pavano Hughes?
MYGIRLS
why the hell do u alwaysy ask the same f…… question ur so imature go to sleepp better u have no life
folks, you should have figured out MYGIRLS’ shtick by now. Don’t sweat it.
If Phil Hughes was a newborn, he’d have a perfect 10 on the AGPAR scale. Nice and pink and healthy!
MYGIRL,
If you continue to say the same thing over and over, eventually you will just be ignored so bring something sound and relevant to the conversation or say something with at least some small quantity of intelligence and thought behind it.
Just wondering, he has been a special player so far. Does he still need glasses to see?
haha 10 on the AGPAR scale – i like that one mel. Good stuff.
Oops. APGAR scale.
haha, Dave. I remember being irritated by a ’9′. My firstborn was slightly jaundiced.
“if he didn’t really contribute to the book, why pay out the cash?”
——————————————————–
I have NO idea what Joe said or didn’t say, but a book about those ’12 Yankee Years’ by “Joe Torre” sells 10 times as many copies as one just by Verducci. Torre gives the book ‘weight’.
“He laughed at the stuff because he is so beyond all of that,” a person close to Rodriguez said about the book, which was co-written by Sports Illustrated baseball writer Tom Verducci. “Personally he feels like he’s in a great space in his life and felt very comfortable last year in the clubhouse and with his relationship with his teammates.”
A-Rod “doesn’t feel like he had any real relationship with [Torre],” and thus isn’t hurt by anything Torre might have said or written about him in “The Yankee Years,” said a person close to the third baseman, the Daily News said.
From RotowWorld:
Facing a Friday deadline to accept the Red Sox’s contract offer, Jason Varitek is considering sitting out the 2009 season or even retiring, according to the Boston Globe.
Varitek is no doubt unhappy about the fact that he’ll have to take a big paycut to stay in Boston, but he’s not going to be any more desirable next offseason and retirement seems like an empty threat.
Line Up for 2009,
Melky
Jetes
Damon
Matsui
Posada
Tex
Cano
Nady
A Fraud
yea jaundice is not all THAT uncommon for newborns. Were they premature? That is usually the case. Stick them in front of a UV light and that is that but it could be a sign of something much more serious later in life. I had jaundice too when i was born – stupid 9!
MaineYankee
January 29th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Talk radio here in Me. was saying they thought the Yankees were considering Varitek in case Posada wasn’t ready. lol
I almost called in to tell them the Yankees weren’t that desperate.
……………………………..
You should have called in. The catching at AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre will be superior than what the Socks have on their major league roster.
dave,
All of my children were past due, 41-42 weeks. Lamp therapy at the hospital did the job. Thank goodness, otherwise we would have to have done it at home. #1 son was the only one to have it.
at least MYGIRL has a lot of confidence in melky to bat him leadoff. We could only hope and pray that melky will play well enough to bat leadoff in 2009. Although that would probably mean damon is injured which is NOT good but if melky is capable of hitting leadoff next season I will be very happy for him to comeback like that. We could use a decent bat out of center although i am pretty sure gardner will get the spot out of spring training.
And thank goodness Phil Hughes isn’t my son. I’d be worried every minute of the day.
yea, i am pretty sure it happens far more often in premature babies than past due newborns but the UV light is almost always the treatment for newborn jaundice breaking up bilirubin so it can be excreted – i know far too much info but im sure the doctors tell you that at the time or something of that nature.
The shamwow dude is now peddling some sort of chopping thing. He just looked at the camera and said:
“you’re going to love my nuts”
What is the over/under that AJ, Pavano Hughes, Damon, Matsui or Wang last half the season?
Or that A Fruad hits over .250 w/RISP or any meaningful AB’s after the 7th inning in a close game?
Brad
If you call in they have a tendency to shout you down if they don’t agree with you. Not worth the aggravation. I just yell at the radio. Wife thinks I’m crazy. lol
Was that a Fruadian slip?
“Up to now, we have always operated our employer-employee relationships on a basis of trust,” the Yankees official told Newsday. “But we never expected what we got from Joe. We may have to get a little tougher on this issue.”
I agree with the confidentiality clause going in the contracts for management…to keep Torre like books from happening so soon after departure…perhaps it could make it so no books that reveal inside info until 5 years after departure…..
Tom
That was hillarious – and to think, the people that write this stuff may not have realized it somehow or they did. Either way, pretty damn funny. I cant wait to see that one.
mygirls
ur such a haterr i bet he hits better den u wit runners in scoring position i really pray to god that the yanks win this year so all of us in this blog bloes it in ur face u hater
Tom,
LOL, that statement caught my ear too. I’m planning to post that up on youtube soon after editing it. hahas.
Folks… even with Steroids withdrawal, intestinal parasites, benign tumors, bone spurs, jock itch and hyperactive sweat glands, Giambi produced an AVERAGE OPS+ of 140 over his 7 years as a Yankee. Tino had an average OPS+ of 113 over his 6 Yankee years. Actually, Tino has a 143 OPS+ in ’97, and averaged a 107 OPS+ over the other 5 years. For those 5 years, I’m not sure if 107 is even average for a 1Bman.
Yes, Tino made up some ground on defense.
So love Tino all you want.
Hate Giambi all you want.
But to compare the overall output of the 2 is silly.
Hey look… if you have an ugly baby, it fine… great… fantastic to love it. But jeez… don’t say it’s better lookin then my kid.
Mets signed OF Bobby Kielty, RHP Kyle Snyder, RHP Tony Armas Jr., LHP Valerio de los Santos and RHP **Matt DeSalvo** to minor league contracts and invited them to spring training.
————
the Mets are once again picking up Yank’s trash.
Torre is not going on Kays show my understanding is that he is doing the following. Smart move by his press people he is going on either lightweiht tv talk shows or radio shows that tend to favor past relationships or those that dont like the Yankees:
Larry King
David Letterman
Regis and Kelly
WFAN (Mike)
Sirius (maddog)
As of now he is not scheduled to do any print interviews but I would imagine that there will be plenty of prin and my tv cameras covering is various book signings I think there are about 4-5 of them in the area
Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPKtBM99kAc
Ah. But will Kim Jones get to ask the first question?
“you’re going to love my nutz”
Said Clemens to Donahue upon first meeting him.
“But will Kim Jones get to ask the first question?”
Nope, Verducci.
the Phillies let the kids party with them when there’s alcohol around?
Red Sox signed Nick Green. Probably going to to opening day starter. lol
How do you think it will go with maddog. He’s probably loving this book.
where did maddog go to after the fan?
They definitely did not realize he said “your going to love my nuts” until much later. Good stuff.
dave
Sirius satellite radio
I think MyGirls and ER need to be introduced one day.
Does anyone listen to rabiddog on Sirius? How is he so far on his own?
jeter on mlb hot stove
If you missed Jeter, you missed nothing, because he didn’t say aything. Total shock.
Jeter is unafraid to give exclusive interviews where he says nothing. Meh…
But the man looks sharp.
He had to have been on for 10 seconds. I saw the post and went right there and missed it. I knew he wasn’t going to actually say anything, but, well, it’s Jeter.
Nelson’s pretty funny, no?
And pretty good.
Everyone looks at Varitek’s low BA – but the pitchers love him and he calls a good game. You can’t overlook that.
If Varitek doesn’t return it’s a loss for Boston. I know the talk shows in Boston are nervous if he doesn’t return.
Watching Hot Stove, I had forgotten that Jeter always refers to Torre as Mr. T.
I wonder if that’s because he pities the fool…
BTW, I think Veritek is a pretty safe bet to be back in Boston. Maybe not as much of a slam dunk as Pettitte resigning here, but close.
Doreen
It was actually pretty long (about 10 minutes?) but nothing newsworthy.
He knew Torre was writing a book
Won’t comment on it until Mr. T and Alex have
Tired of talking about the same stuff every year
Said “good job” when he heard they signed CC, AJ and Tex
Tex’s defense is underappreciated
Yanks spent alot of money but he hears the payroll is lower this year.
Doreen
January 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
He had to have been on for 10 seconds. I saw the post and went right there and missed it. I knew he wasn’t going to actually say anything, but, well, it’s Jeter.
Nelson’s pretty funny, no?
————————————————————
Nelson and Leiter should be a lot of fun, together. Magrane doesn’t impress me at all.
Cruz to the Yanks per Heyman. huh?
“Cruz to the Yanks per Heyman. huh?”
where does it say that
Ed, say what now?
ed were did u read that at or where did u hear it from
Ed he didnt say that he said that Cruz had hoped that he could go to the Yankees as beacuse of all their signings they would not have to give up a high draft p[ick. He didnt say that the Yankess wanted him or were signin him.
thanks, Pat.
It was actually pretty long (about 10 minutes?) but nothing newsworthy.
He knew Torre was writing a book
This is one reason why I hate ex-ballplayers doing interviews. It’s like they have a list of questions (good) – but have no instinct to ask follow up questions. Plus they always go easy on “one of their own”
How did Jeter know Torre was writing a book?
Did Torre tell him?
Was he asked for quotes from Verducci?
Would Jeter ever write a book in the future?
“It was actually pretty long (about 10 minutes?) but nothing newsworthy.”
Can you imagine if Jeter wrote a tell all book? All of the pages would be blank.
gayle
oh okay. thanks for the confirmation….
Jeter knew he was writing a book just like most everyone else did. It was announced when they signed the deal and it was announced shortly after Torre didnt come back to the Yankees. It was also one of the reasons that Verducci wasnt back on Yankees Hot Stove this year. That Torre actually was writing a book was no surpise to anyone it was all over the papers etc.
damm i was getting exited
DT good points.
I noticed there’s one more empty chair at the Hot Stove table. Hows about we start a write in campaign for you?
Hopefully the Yanks keep around some of CC’s buddies (Damon FA in 2010; Swisher may be traded shortly).
It sounds like CC may want to stick around in NY when his 3yr opt-out clause comes up.
“Everyone looks at Varitek’s low BA – but the pitchers love him and he calls a good game. You can’t overlook that. ”
I’m still waiting for someone to show me statistics that show that when Varitek catches a pitcher, that pitcher does better than when another catcher catches him.
“He calls a good game.” I hear that all the time but nobody can ever back it up. Just because ESPN says it doesn’t make it true. I’m not saying it’s not true, but when is somebody going to give some evidence that it’s true while making the claim?
I remember Beckett pitching much better to Mirabelli than Tek early on. I don’t know if that held true but Tek still got all the credit.
MaineYankee
January 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Brad
If you call in they have a tendency to shout you down if they don’t agree with you. Not worth the aggravation. I just yell at the radio. Wife thinks I’m crazy. lol
……………………………….
Sounds like a typical New England radio outlet . . . delusional. Thankfully they can’t see your interlocking NY over the airwaves.
“I’m still waiting for someone to show me statistics that show that when Varitek catches a pitcher, that pitcher does better than when another catcher catches him.”
Just listen to the Sox pitchers. Lester raved about him discussing his no-hitter. I’ve heard other pitchers say the same.
Yankee pitchers loved Molina. Did the stats show he was better than Posada, Pudge etc? I dunno. Maybe they did.
there’s something called catcher’s ERA (CERA). It’s not the be-all-end-all, but here it is:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....ualified=0
“Just listen to the Sox pitchers. Lester raved about him discussing his no-hitter. I’ve heard other pitchers say the same.
Yankee pitchers loved Molina. Did the stats show he was better than Posada, Pudge etc? I dunno. Maybe they did.”
What are pitchers going to say about the captain of their team? They hate him?
what do yankee players say about Jeter?
I’m still looking for some shred of evidence that says Varitek makes the pitchers statistically better. Otherwise, who gives a crap if they “love him”?
I think what CC is doing is great! We need more people who want to go out and show that he is a good person. There are enough fake guys out there and having somebody who is willing to give more of himself and less of his mouth is a GOOD thing.
Tom,
thanks! – I will definitely give that a read.
p.s. I’m not arguing that Tek isn’t a good defensive catcher. Just saying I dont know and always hear he is without anything to back it up.
Boston Dave
what do yankee players say about Jeter?
I think the standard answer to these type of questions this week is “we’ll have to wait and read the book.”
Must we hate on A-Rod on every thread?
CC in 2009 = 19-6..over/under?
Boston Dave, I understand-nor was I defending that jackass Varitek. CERA is a flawd stat-you’ll be shocked to see that the catchers who catch good staffs have lower CERA’s.
I’ll say 17-9-to account for the first year as a Yankee jitters players seemingly have.
Tom,
Wow, you mean the better the pitching staff, the better that team’s catcher’s CERA is? I can’t believe it. lol
But in truth, a good way to compare catchers might be to take 2 catchers on the same team with the same staff and look at how much the CERA improves or regresses from one to the other? Like posada and molina although even that is not accurate because look at who molina had pitching to him last season – ponson, rasner for almost 2/5ths of his games.
I thought the Pavano statement from earlier today about Torre’s book was a joke. Who knew Pav or at least his agent had a sense of humor.
At this point, it is HIGHLY unlikely that the yanks trade swish or nady. Why? Because abreu is still out there willing to take a one year, crap salary and go back on the market in what he hopes will be a better economy. So why would teams give up players for nady/swish when they can get abreu for no players and possibly a lower salary than either of those guys… If everyone stays healthy and productive which is unlikely, cash will probably move one of them midseason for an actual need. We dont even need much right now that is actually available via trade – a better offensive backup catcher and a center fielder.
Cash should definitely, definitely look into cruz. He is receiving very little interest as far as I can tell and that is mainly because he is a Type A free agent. For the yanks, that is nothing as they just give up a fourth pick in a very thin draft. Who cares? He will likely be a steal in this economy as a reliever and type A free agent. He may very well accept a small one year deal as i said earlier about abreu (imagine if abreu was a type A – he would be done).
How much does Boras want to kill Pujols right now? Talk about a scary 3-4.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3870198
Whether it is Cano, Matsui, and Posada, the 5th spot in the lineup is going to be taken by a very productive hitter.
Has anyone checked out nj.com lately? It is a shame what it has turned into. All they do is “report” what other people write.
Next we’ll read Nick in SF of lohud.com says ……
They used to have pretty good bb coverage.
Pavano has completely recovered from funny bone replacement surgery.
it’s a very thin draft? where do you get information like that?
How does max ramirez on the rangers have the second highest Cera last year? He must be one hell of a catcher considering no regular on his pitching staff had a lower era than 5 except padilla who was at 4.74 and Gabbard who was at 4.82. I know it was only 82 innings but texas had some of the worst starting pitching in the league i believe.
I’ve been reading around on Fangraphs and according to the CHONE projections Melky is going to hit .280 with 10 home runs.
How in the world did they (him?) come to that conclusion?
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....osition=OF
no27,
It was said numerous times in numerous blog including this one that after the first couple of rounds, the draft really drops in talent. So giving up a fourth round pick does not seem like that big of a deal if that is accurate – i assume it is because pete said that not too long ago as did others.
dave
maybe max only caught against the orioles? lol
Dave, the list goes from worst to first. Max had the 2nd worst CERA last season.
Wow- pujols wants to know why no one is interested in offering manny a huge contract? I wonder – maybe its because an outfielder in their late 30s with hardly any defensive ability to speak of wants 3 years and 75 mil in a terrible economy and very few big market clubs are still shopping for offensive talent at that price. Pujols is one hell of a hitter but not sounding too bright with those comments. That lineup would be incredible though but manny would have to play left every day the entire length of the contract …
ohhh, why would they start a list from worst to first? It makes a little more sense now.
I bet no one predicted Moose would be the yanks ace last year and win 20 games or that Wang would win 19 in 2006. I also dont think they predicted zero wins from hughes and kennedy combined last year. Those predictions are difficult to take too seriously. They dont account for injury, regression, comeback seasons, career years, etc. for the most part and all that is crucial to team performance. I dont think melky is even our starting center fielder out of ST unless he has an incredible spring and gardner falls off a cliff.
Melky will be a better fielder and maybe hitter, and Gardner will be better in late inning pinch running and spot starts.
“TreatED him like Fredo”? What, now they treat him like Kay?
I LOVE reading any mention one of my favorite fictional characters, “Fredo”.
I’m a big fan of A-Rod’s and LOL at seeing A-Rod in Fredo’s boat.
Joe Torre? He was once great, but now, with this book, he’s a stinkin’ RAT!!!!!!!
CC has a personality that allows him to fit in anywhere.
I do not think anyone can question CC’s character…even Joe Torre. CC pitched every 3rd day down the stretch in Milwaukee, risking injury, in his free agent year for a team that he knew would not be re-signing him.’Nuff said!
cc is the man
Although it may sound a bit corny, I in reality like looking after my hearing and whilst I do agree with the preceding poster and I really hope I do not get shot down for saying this, but I think it is essential to take all things in moderation.
This web site is actually quite good, but for some reason it does not display properly when trying to view on my Nintendo Wii. If it helps, the console uses the Opera browser and am forced to using the console for accessing the Net whilst my PC is away being repaired.
This internet site is actually quite good, but for some reason it does not display properly when trying to view on my Nintendo Wii. If it helps, the console uses the Opera web browser and am impelled to using the console for accessing the Internet whilst my PC is away being restored.