Nady vs. Abreu vs. Swisher
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 02, 2009 
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Interesting take here from always-insightful Rob Neyer (with an assist from Tyler Kepner at the Times) on the declining value of Bobby Abreu.
Let me say upfront that advanced stats are not my thing. They just aren’t. I don’t disparage them at all and I think they have value, but they’re just not something I get as worked up about as other people. To me, they’re sort of like salt – everyone likes a different amount on their food, and I’m someone who doesn’t like all that much. I don’t deny that it’s a worthwhile spice – it’s just not for me.
That said, OPS+ is something I get (and think is important), and Neyer mentions how Abreu’s OPS+ was 120 last year (114 the year before) – hardly overwhelming for a guy who was an on-base machine earlier in his career. Clearly he’s declining, and he certainly wasn’t worth the massive money he was getting in his last contract. By comparison, Nady’s combined OPS+ last year was 128 and Swisher’s was 92 (his career high was 127 in 2007). Not fantastic, but way more acceptable considering their salaries.
It’ll be interesting to see where Abreu ends up. He wouldn’t be a bad fit for the Mets at the right price.
Sam, Usually its referred to OPS+
I agree though, Abreu is definitely in decline. Especially his defense and baserunning.
i want swisher to start i think when he was in oakland he was a very productive player and i was very exited when we aquired him
Abreu is soft I’m glad he is no longer on the team. I would take Swisher or Nady over him anyday.
Abreu was solid, but not irreplaceable. Nady or Swisher should put up a comparable OPS+ and better defense.
A couple of interesting thought provoking posts today. Good job, Sam.
Thanks, Patrick. Typo is fixed.
Interesting article on the Boras/Heyman relationship:
“It is plainly obvious that Heyman, known among fellow writers as scottboras.com, is getting fed such stories by Scott himself, which is fine and dandy except there is more going on here than meets the eye.”
http://baseballanalysts.com/ar.....eaks_a.php
The Mets could definitely use Abreu. Ryan Church might be a better fit in LF, put Abreu in RF. I’m sure Omar would love Abreu too and we already know that Bobby can handle NY.
Abreu is in decline but his numbers are still good and he’s a patient hitter, if the Mets (or any other team) get him for less than 7-8 million it’s a great deal. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Great job, Sam. I’d still like Abreu on the Yanks if there was room. To me he’s more of a sure thing than Nady or Swisher are. If they traded Nady, and tried out Swish in CF, Abreu would be great for another year. Otherwise, the Mets should really give him a look.
What do the Yankees do if 1. Austin Jackson has a bad 2009 2. If A.J. (or any other starter) get injured early in the season (Joba will have a limit and if one [other] starter goes down it means the Yankees might not make the playoffs again). 3. If both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner have a great spring which one starts or do they both platoon until one has a decline? (added by Mobile using Mippin)
i’ll miss Bobby and would probably take him of those 3 for 2009 if it were up to me due to consistency over the years…
i was all for a nady trade and abreu re-signing, but have accepted that it won’t/didn’t happen, most likely due to his inconsistent defense. he had a nice arm, but i feel like it wasn’t always that accurate. range, yeah, we’ve been through that enough.
what is swisher’s arm like?
Thomas Robust
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
What do the Yankees do if 1. Austin Jackson has a bad 2009 2. If A.J. (or any other starter) get injured early in the season (Joba will have a limit and if one [other] starter goes down it means the Yankees might not make the playoffs again). 3. If both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner have a great spring which one starts or do they both platoon until one has a decline? (added by Mobile using Mippin)
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If all of the Red Sox, Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa starting 9, all of their rotation and all of their bullpen gets hurt, it won’t matter. I suppose we could play “What If?” al day.
Abreu could have kept the right field wall in the new Stadium harm free. Thats not even including the hits that dropped in front of him, which he could have caught just by getting some grass stains on his uniform.
Cashman not giving him 16 mil this year was brilliant.It is time to move on. Id take either one of the other two over softy.
Sam…. THAT’S FIVE POSTS IN 7 HOURS!
YOU ARE GOING TO BURN YOURSELF OUT!!!!!!!!
Guy… I know you have big boots to fill, but ya gotta pace yourself. Stand back. Take a breath. Smell the roses.
(Somebody get Sam the Quaaludes)
But Nady’s numbers went down when he transfered to AL east. abreu is a really consistent player who can really turn it on when it counts.
If I could take only one hitter: Abreu
If I could take only one player: Swisher
If I could take only one OF: Nady
If I could take just one home…
I think before anyone believes Xavier Nady is going to replace Abreu’s offensive number, Nady needs to a)have a season where he plays 150 games b)walks more than 39 times in a season c) improve considerably over his pathetic career .335 obp d) drive in 100 runs at least once and e) score more than 76 runs in a season f) steal more than 3 bases.
Nady is not going to replace Bobby Abreu offensively. They are not the same type of hitter. Nady is 30 years old and hasnt approached Abreu’s career at the same stage.Abreu obviously isnt worth $16mil,but he certainly a much better bat than Xavier Nady.
Wayyyyy off-topic here. Does anyone have digital telephone, specifically Comcast voice over internet protocol? I’m wondering if I get that, would my HP all-in-one fax work?
Nady/Swisher/Abreu/MANNY
Just wome fun for a Friday night as I wait for more snow in Boston.
If the Yankees can sign one more free agent on a one year deal at their price who would you choose and under what conditions?
This doesn’t mean Manny at 5 million,. It means Sheets at something like 1 and 7MM, or Manny at 1 and 20MM.
Further – and I am not advocating for these suggestions:
1) Sign Manny and trade Nady and Swisher
2) Sign Sheets to set-up for Mo for one year
3) Sign Sheets and trade CMW for a good player.
Name the player, deal, and conditions!
yeah Sam, i hope you’re saving some material for Thursday and Friday. i’m planning on slow work days then (and lots of goofing off on blogs).
Back on topic.
I’m going to miss Abreu as a Yankee, but I understand why they chose not to offer arbitration or re-sign him.
I would be willing to bet that Swisher will rebound offensively, but the question is, is he a good right fielder – or, more to the point, would he be better than Abreu out there?
I like Nady – I think he’s a solid player, but not a great one. He’s a piece on a team. Not a bad thing to be. It’s hard to tell how he’ll ultimately fare since his time with the Yankees last season had mixed results. And the odd thing was he did better when he first got here, and then tapered off.
Oh, the uncertainty of it all!!!!!!!
At this point in their respective careers, considering money and their contractual obligations, along with the type of players they are, JMO, but:
Swisher>Abreu>Nady
My reasoning for this is:
a. Swisher has a very reasonable contract for the type of player he is. Abreu is only going to command a one or two year deal, but he is old and withering defensively. Nady is a Boras client and will most likely opt out and command more money than he is worth.
b. Swisher has the defense over both. you know he is the type of guy to leave it all on the field. a “grinder” type player, unlike the wall-fearing Bobby.
c. Swisher is coming off a bad season and set for a rebound. Nady produced well with the Pirates, but not so hot when he came here. Additionally, he has shown no evidence of consistency, with either power nor average.
In all, I believe Abreu has the offensive edge, but his terrible defense put Swisher ahead of him. Nady is an average offensively and below defensively. Swisher can be a 275/25/90, which is more than we could ask for from him.
five iron from fenway
* Just wome fun for a Friday night as I wait for more snow in Boston.
If the Yankees can sign one more free agent on a one year deal at their price who would you choose and under what conditions?
Okay, is this something you came up with last Friday, something you want us to wait for Friday to do, or did you just forget today is Monday?
I don’t agree with Borden on much of anything. I’m just getting to this now……..Is he nuts? I would take Pettitte many times over Oliver Perez if only because of the 1 year deal (nevermind the fact that Perez would probably get killed in the AL East). That was the whole point of signing Andy – 1 year. The Yankees are still very high on Phil – but he needs at least 1/2 year in the minors to refine his stuff and just get back to pitching. Signing any pitcher for multiple years would block Phil…..and any promising Yankee pitcher. It would be a complete disavowal of the team’s plan to build through the farm system.
Mets need Manny not Abreu. Wright and Beltran aren’t #4 hitters.
They need a guy who loves the big spot, and thats Manny.
Too bad the Wilpons are cheap.
“… a big chunk rests on the notion that after posting a minus-4 Ultimate Zone Rating in 2007, he plummeted to minus-25 in 2008. When we see a difference like that, we have to wonder…”
“… was worth around $6 million last season … but around $12 million in each of the previous two seasons.”
If Neyer questions that -25, he obviouly wasn’t watching many Yankees games last year. In a short period of time, Bobby’s D has gone from average, to poor, to terrible, to ‘I miss Matsui in the OF’. The Dude’s D is like a snowman sitting on a beach in Maui. You can actually see him deteriorate in front of your eyes. He’s always been afraid of the wall, but in 2007, the Warning Track seemed to scare him. Last year, the gap in RCF might as well been a block hole into another dimension, as much as Bobby avoided it.
After 2006, Bobby had a career OPS of .905. The last 2 years, he has average an .828 OPS. Mind you, he still runs and throws well, and has a sweet swing. We can’t tell, but at 34, he has many signs of being in steep decline. I still think he may be good for a .840-.850 OPS, but combined with terrible D, he may not even rate as an ‘average’ OFer anymore.
In a good market, he’s worth more then $6m, but certainly not $12m. Sloth-footed Dunn is a much better bet these days. If Bobby gets 2/$18m, he should consider himself lucky.
I also think that with the Steroid Injected Slugger being a thing of the past, that people are less tolerant of poor D. I believe the negative impact of poor D has been under assessed in general over the years. Maybe that is changing.
Doreen, of the three, Swisher is, by far, the better outfielder by a lot. Abreu’s bat and his base stealing are superior. Not much difference at all in pitch selection between Abreu and Swisher. Swisher has the power, but, Abreu is a great run producer.
Abreu’s just never been a home run hitter. In 12 years, he’s had two years where he had 30-31 homers and one with 25. The 30 homer years were freak years. He’s a gap/line drive hitter….much like Paul O’Neill. His steals dropped a couple last year but at least 4 times he was thrown out on busted hit and run plays.
Nady is a solid hitter, but, he really cranked out the strikeouts after a quick start with NYY. Chases a lot of low, outside pitches and doesn’t walk at all.
Doreen – actually it is still a Brian Cashman induced haze.
I met Mr. Cashman over the weekend at a ski resort in Vermont. Very nice and gracious with his time in talking to a fan.
So to me the next week will all be Fridays.
And oh yeah – getting home from work, trying to read emails, get dinner ready and type all at the same time.
Feel free to answer today or Friday.
I just believe that with two weeks to pitchers and catchers and many big name free agents at there, I would imagine their prices are falling faster the a 3 bed 3 bath in Miami. If the Yanks only have to give up a fourth round pick, and perhaps can trade some salary, they might be able to pick up a big time player who would be playing for a contract this year.
great post Sam! Nady and Swisher are way more respectable when you look at their salaries compared to Abreu. Both of them will give you better defense than Bobby “I can’t catch, the wall is close” Abreu. I hear Abreu is now looking for a 7 mil dollar contract. Thank goodness the Yanks didn’t offer him Arb.
The brand-new right field wall: please re-sign Abreu!
Abreu quit running into walls back in 1997 when he cracked two ribs and tore his rotator cuff slamming into walls while playing in the Astros system. Houston left him open in the expansion draft and kept Richard Hildago because they neverthought he’s throw as well again. He still throws well and accurate, but, never like he did a few years ago. He’s got about two throws a game in him.
heck the walks on all of the Yankee players. They all went down considerably last year….even Giambi was down to about 70 walks, so, it wasn’t just Abreu. Walks all over baseball were down, too.
Doreen, my brother has Time Warner digital VOIP and also has an HP 5 in one (fax, copiy, etc.)and has no problems with it.
Walks in baseball in 2008 – 4 batters in the majors had 100+ walks and another 11 had 90-99. Wn’s the last time that happened? 1968?he
Swisher has a career OPS+ of 112 vs. 108 for Nady. As corner outfielders, however, these aren’t very impressive numbers. They’re both probably better than Abreu would be (considering defense), but I wish the Yankees had at least ONE outfielder in ’09 who was a legitimate offensive powerhouse.
Doreen:
http://www.comcast.com/custome.....hx?ID=2809
Thanks Fran and Tom!
If Abreu is going to sign a one-year deal for some team – what team makes more sense than the Twins?
They have one year left in the Metrodome and that big baggie of an outfield wall that even he might not fear brushing up against now and again.
GB = I can only hope the reason for the total number of walks going down in MLB is because the umpires are actually calling strikes now. Everyone looking for some way to shorten the length of so many games only needed to look at the way umpires had been calling such a ridiculously tight zone. Call a strike a strike – and watch the game action increase and the length of the game decrease.
The Yankee walk rate went from #4 in 2007 to #21 in 2008, so while it may have been happening all over baseball, it was happening a lot with the Yanks. Of course, ARod, Po and Matsui missing time didn’t help much. And any time you put a Molina in the line-up, you’re gonna hemmorage walks…
I’m not sure the big baggie at the Metrodome would entice Abreau. Maybe if the wall were covered in bubblewrap, well, that might sway him to Minn…….
Yes, but with Molina in the lineup, the walkoff HBP rate skyrockets. Everything is a tradeoff.
That said, I’m alarmed by reports that Molina is slimming down for the season. That better not include his rump!
Sam are you trying to take Pete’s blogging job? Great job today.
Greenberet7, the what if’s that I asked are not far fetched questions, from what we’ve seen in the past some might happen. 1. Austin Jackson didn’t have a great 08. 2. A.J. has a history of injuries. 3. It’s more logical that both Cabrera and Gardner don’t play well but since everyone is looking at it that way I asked what if the opposite happens. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Important message to any potential Abreu suitors:
If you build it, Bobby will come…
http://tinyurl.com/dkogha
austin jackson went .285 9hr 69rbi and 19 steals in aa trenton this year was an all-star and won mvp in the postseason. sorry he didnt live up to your expectations. just because someone decided when austin was 19 that he should start in the bronx in 2010 doesnt mean he’s not progressing well, its just your expectations for him were obviously too high for ’08.
jeers….no fence!
What type of park is the Trenton Thunder’s (hitters or pitchers?)
Is it a pitchers park? Because Jackson’s splits are very stark:
http://www.minorleaguesplits.c.....?pl=457706
i have no idea about the home parks in the EL. i do know that its always considered a pitcher’s league.
I don’t get it. We’re building a whole new stadium anyway. Why not just sign Abreu and build the wall out of cotton or something?
Someone called Francesca today and told him that Larry King didn’t even read the book, so that he could go into the interview identifying with 99.9% of the people who haven’t read the book (this is apparently his MO with any author).
I guess that explains why Larry didn’t follow up Joe’s “A-Fraud” comment (where Joe claims it was said to Alex’s face, as a joke…..except in the book, that’s not at all how it’s depicted). Francesca said he’s going to absolutely ask Joe about that – because he’s read the book, lol
**SJ44, I noticed in a previous thread that you believe Nady is the RF unless Swisher has a better ST. Is there any particular reason that you feel the Yankees favor Nady over Swisher?
GreenBeret, thanks for your responses to my post re: Nady/Swisher. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out. I don’t love Melky or Gardner (though if Gardner could hit .250, he could be productive if only because of his speed), but as SJ mentioned before, if Cano bounces back, the lineup can support them. Posada is the real key here. I won’t expect him to be any great shakes, but it’s vital he can catch a decent amount of games (not sure what that amount would be) and be a productive offensive player (he doesn’t have to be great). If he can do both of those things, the Yankees are in great shape. If not, well…….
We have too many old outfielders, Abreu won’t give you more than the other two. I think we are really ready to go to war with this yankees team, reasonable bench, strong pitching, let’s go start some fights with TB in spring training.
i put no stock in what happens in ST. especially this year with the wbc. for the first few weeks its gonna be alot of scrubs against alot of other scrubs. deciding whether gardner can hack it in CF in ST is useless imo. if u have doubt now, you have to come up with an alternative. waiting till april to see what happens in ST doesnt help and in fact may give you a false sense of security.
I liked Bobby a lot, I’m sad to see him go. However, it makes sense. It was time.
Swisher… Swisher’s a sleeper. I think that was a real smart move by Cashman. He was a pain for the Yankees when he was with the A’s. He could be very clutch.
I’m thinking that his bad year last year, was because he was being managed by a cast member of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.” Now that he’s got a much calmer, less ulcer-inducing manager, he might be back to being dangerous. He’s got something to prove, and I’m hoping that he’s out to do just that. (Kinda off-topic but… Swisher also has one of the hottest wives in Baseball!)
Nady… I like him. Sure, he’s not Paul O’Neill. But he has a bit of that late 90′s spirit about him. He changed leagues last year — a whole bunch of new pitchers to figure out. I think he will be much better this year, and he’s a Boras client in a contract year, so I’m thinking he’ll give a little extra. Do we re-sign him? Ask me in August/September. I’m not 100% sure yet. Our outfield will likely be very different in 2010 anyway.
I do think that if both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner have great springs Gardner gets the nod at CF, his speed makes him worth that much more. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Melky’s out of options so his future in the Bronx is uncertain if he doesn’t play well enough to stay on the 25.
Sam-
Enjoyed your posts.
Abreu will probably end up as a DH on an AL team-Mariners?
If the Dodgers have enough money left over after signing Randy Wolf or Braden Looper, maybe Abreu fits in there. Rumors have Mets not looking at any more big ticket signings-only bench players.
Question-Where will Manny end up?? Nationals on a 2 year deal??
Twins supposedly looking into trading Delmon Young. Would he be a capable CF’er? Would minor league pitching be enough to land him.
Personally would like Denard Span in CF, but doubt the Twins would trade him.
Imagine Manny doesn’t sign until mid-season? Doesn’t look like anybody is talking about the kind’ve deal he’s looking for. Plus he’s already said he’ll retire (BS) if no one makes him an acceptable offer. Maybe he’ll wait for some team that’s in a fight for contention to throw him a bone when he has more leverage. It is Manny afterall, so stranger things have happened.
True that Ozzie may be a little nuts but Girardi definitely reminds me of Nurse Ratched!
Hopefully Swisher will emulate Chief and “break out”.
one thing about swisher that bothers me is that it supposedly bothered him so much to play CF and lead off. thats not a great sign for a guy whos going to be on another crowded team scrambling for at-bats.
whether CF is his best position or not there will be times when the yanks would prefer to have his bat in at CF instead of melky or gardner but if he’s got a problem with being asked to play CF that cuts down his usefulness. as for batting leadoff, he wont be asked to here, but lets hope he doesnt have another problem with batting 7th or wherever he ends up.
hes supposed to be a gamer, that would infer to me that he’d take the field and bat wherever it helps the team most.
i have pretty high hopes for the guy i hope we wont be hearing any complaints about the way hes being used in ny.
young was aquired for matt garza who went 11-9, 3.70 for tampa last year so it would have to be pretty awesome minor league pitching.
Lets grab A Jones for two years,trade one of the OFers and a RP for a nice OF/Inf utility player
Sounds like Frank Torre might be setting up the “Verducci did it” defense.
http://www.page2live.com/2009/.....-with-joe/
Rivera at the Knick, er, Kobe(?) game at the Garden.
He says that:
-He’s healthy
-He’s throwing
-He excited about pitching moves
-does not care about Torre book, or Moose’s comments about him in said book.
-wore a great hat.
“Imagine Manny doesn’t sign until mid-season?”
If Manny comes out and publicly calls out Torre on his managerial skills maybe Hal will offer him that Yes network job he supposedly offered Torre after their quickie divorce.
Manny could be the next host of “Kids on Deck”? Maybe do a stoner version for adults.
Ham Fighters
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:37 pm
one thing about swisher that bothers me is that it supposedly bothered him so much to play CF and lead off. thats not a great sign for a guy whos going to be on another crowded team scrambling for at-bats.
whether CF is his best position or not there will be times when the yanks would prefer to have his bat in at CF instead of melky or gardner but if he’s got a problem with being asked to play CF that cuts down his usefulness. as for batting leadoff, he wont be asked to here, but lets hope he doesnt have another problem with batting 7th or wherever he ends up.
hes supposed to be a gamer, that would infer to me that he’d take the field and bat wherever it helps the team most.
i have pretty high hopes for the guy i hope we wont be hearing any complaints about the way hes being used in ny.
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Maybe Swisher is just smart enough to realize he’s in over his head in center field. The guy’s no good at it, and the Yankees have no intention of putting him there. Won’t be an issue.
“ Joe’s last two years with the Yankees were no picnic,” Frank Torre said. “It’s like *management was rooting for Joe to do badly. That’s no secret either.* ”
Yeah, that’s it, schmuck.
Hey, Frank, your brothers a rat.
So DEREK JETER will be on UCF’s campus tomorrow – I plan on buying “The Yankee Years”
So you think Jeter will sign it?? lol
Given Abreu’s defense the ideal position for him would be DH and maybe backup OF on limited occasions. You don’t pay him nearly as much as he was paid, but his bat and baserunning will be missed.
Swisher will be interesting to watch… unless they trade him. He will have motivation to play well, but sometimes that bites you, as in trying too hard to show everyone that he CAN do it.
Nady will be playing for his next contract. It also can take a while to transition to a new team/league. He hit well enough before the trade. While the pitching level in the East is tough, it shouldn’t be THAT much better. He was facing pitchers he hadn’t seen before, or much of before. I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off, but his defense didn’t seem all that great either.
I think overall, Swisher may be the best one to hold on to as he plays hard and seems to have that quirkiness about him that helps lighten things up when things aren’t going well. Team him up with Damon and CC and the clubhouse might be fun, even if Joe Girardi keeps up his GI Joe act.
Abreu is the only one of the 3 that could be a 3 hitter in this lineup. The problem with Abreu isn’t his decline in offense, he’s still really consistent. His defense in RF is just really bad. He’s still got speed, he just doesn’t take good routes to balls and chooses not to go anywhere near the wall.
Swisher’s got a better eye and more power than Nady. Going into last season, Nady’s batting average was 20 points higher than Swisher’s. So, Nady is a better contact hitter, but not at the rate that they showed last year.
I don’t know if there’s much of a difference in Swisher and Nady in terms of outfield defense. Even if Nady is a better defender, it’s not a big advantage. Overall, Swisher is the better player and I don’t see why Nady should take too many at bats away from him.
We need a 3 hitter? Why the hell did we just sign Teixeira for?!
Someone should tell Frank to shut the *** up.
Rosenthal saying new Dodger offer put on the table to Manny-1/$25. If he’s considering 1 year deals, I would imagine that should open up his market.
m, is it odd watching all sporting events in the afternoon/early evening?
It would drive me nuts.
Quick question for the board:
How would you rank the Yankees OF right now (Nady, Damon, Swisher) compared to the rest of the AL outfields?
The only OFs I’m sure NY is better than is Seattle and KC. Other ones, even Baltimore, you could make an argument.
What do you guys think? Which outfields are the Yankees superior to in the AL?
GreenBeret7
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Thomas Robust
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
What do the Yankees do if 1. Austin Jackson has a bad 2009 2. If A.J. (or any other starter) get injured early in the season (Joba will have a limit and if one [other] starter goes down it means the Yankees might not make the playoffs again). 3. If both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner have a great spring which one starts or do they both platoon until one has a decline? (added by Mobile using Mippin)
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If all of the Red Sox, Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa starting 9, all of their rotation and all of their bullpen gets hurt, it won’t matter. I suppose we could play “What If?” al day.
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What if it rains on opening day and doesn’t stop raining until October?
Tom,
It’s okay. Baseball starts at about 1:00 my time and ends about 4:30-ish? Only bummer is that I miss the middle of the game when I have to do a taxi run. I tune in for the radio updates every 20 minutes for the 1.5 hours I miss.
Laker home games start @ 5:30 and end about 8-ish.
pat
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Rosenthal saying new Dodger offer put on the table to Manny-1/$25. If he’s considering 1 year deals, I would imagine that should open up his market.
Good of the Yankees to sit this one out. Until Manny falls into their lap.
Pel
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:11 pm
“ Joe’s last two years with the Yankees were no picnic,” Frank Torre said. “It’s like management was rooting for Joe to do badly. That’s no secret either. ”
Yeah, that’s it, schmuck.
Hey, Frank, your brothers a rat.
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Yet I think there’s some truth to that.
Hey Sam
You got a few hot topics going there which have had their share of comments on the blog (some mindful, some mindless) over the past few months.
If you want to crash the blog (if not implode the whole internet) start threads discussing these topics all in the same hour: Joba in the rotation or the bullpen, Manny Ramirez, Pettitte/Clemens/PED’s Cashman’s competence, you could hold an open forum for what kind of moves any of us think Cashman should never have made and what moves he absolutely needs to make now, you could project possible career numbers for A/AA level prospects then randomly tout or dismiss their place in the organization, hold an open forum for position switches for the starting nine, discuss who’s washed up, who’s trade bait who SHOULD be trade bait, who on other teams COULD be trade bait, rave the infinite eternal wisdom of Mike Francesa and/or Mike Lupica, and mention anything related to Joe Torre’s book.
For humor, you could bring Kei Igawa & Carl Pavano into the mix.
Tom,
Actually it’s a good thing. I get to sleep early and I get to watch all the prime time shows.
And afternoon games are at 7 or 8 depending on the daylight savings time.
The Yankees aren’t going to add another 25 million dollar player to their roster. They’d have to get rid of Nady and Nick in order to even consider it.
I don’t think the Yankees wanted Torre to fail. They wanted to win. Otherwise they’d set Joe T. up for failure. But every trade deadline, they brought in reinforcements.
Torre failure=Yankee failure. Can’t see it.
“Someone should tell Frank to shut the *** up.”
you want to say that to say that to someone almost 80 years old?
nice.
Seriously, though. Frank needs to let Torre fight his own fights. I know that Frank has been protecting Joe T since he was a kid, but like randy l says the guy is 80 years old. I think he’s old enough to fight his own battles.
Frank acts like Torre’s being picked on. Torre started it.
Oops. Frank’s 80? Joe’s like 75 then.
Randy, nice blog.
“you want to say that to say that to someone almost 80 years old?”
Do you have to bring up Livan in every thread?
bodhisattva
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 pm
GreenBeret7
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Thomas Robust
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
What do the Yankees do if 1. Austin Jackson has a bad 2009 2. If A.J. (or any other starter) get injured early in the season (Joba will have a limit and if one [other] starter goes down it means the Yankees might not make the playoffs again). 3. If both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner have a great spring which one starts or do they both platoon until one has a decline? (added by Mobile using Mippin)
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If all of the Red Sox, Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa starting 9, all of their rotation and all of their bullpen gets hurt, it won’t matter. I suppose we could play “What If?” al day.
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What if it rains on opening day and doesn’t stop raining until October?
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Not a problem. I’m covered for flood insurance and I have a boat.
To people interested in information I reccomend Fangraphs. The below is part of an article about the importance of OF defense.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/page/5/
One of the truisms in sports is that whenever an organization emerges as a new success story by doing things unconventionally, other teams often try to copy the pattern. In football, we’ve seen this with the rise of the west coast offense after the 49?ers rose to power in the 1980s, and in basketball, we’ve seen teams get away from big line-ups after the Phoenix Suns won a lot of games with their seven seconds or less philosophy. Last year, the Tampa Bay Rays were the new success story, one of the foundations of that success was their outfield defense.
Carl Crawford is, for all intents and purposes, a center fielder. He’s just been assigned to left field for the Rays. B.J. Upton is the prototypical center fielder with long strides and blazing speed. And, while Gabe Gross might not look like a center fielder, he’s performed like one during his major league career. These three spent the majority of the time in the outfield for the Rays last year, and were the reason why Tampa racked up a +45 UZR from their outfield in 2008.
Based on what we’re seeing in Baltimore and Seattle, it appears that the Three CF model of outfields that Tampa made en vogue is catching on in other cities as well.
The Orioles just completed a trade for Felix Pie, an outstanding defensive outfielder who has struggled to hit major league pitching so far in his career. Those struggles haven’t carried over to the outfield, though, where Pie’s UZR/150 in limited playing time is +11.2. Based on the scouting reports, his physical skills, and even the limited data we have, there’s significant evidence to suggest that Pie is a well above average defensive center fielder. The Orioles, however, have tapped him to play left field, where he’ll roam alongside Adam Jones (+4.6 UZR/150 as a CF last year) and Nick Markakis (+3.6 UZR/150 as an RF last year).
With Pie and Jones, the O’s have two above average center fielders. Markakis, the least rangy of the three, is still above average for a corner OF and is better defensively than some players masquerading as center fielders (Josh Hamilton, I’m looking at you). With an outfield of Pie/Jones/Markakis, the Orioles should expect something like a +15 to +25 UZR from that trio, which would almost certainly give them one of the best defensive outfields in baseball.
So, GB are you going to be the next Noah?
m
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Seriously, though. Frank needs to let Torre fight his own fights. I know that Frank has been protecting Joe T since he was a kid, but like randy l says the guy is 80 years old. I think he’s old enough to fight his own battles.
Frank acts like Torre’s being picked on. ***Torre started it***
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Why did I just have a picture of somebody sticking their tongue out as she hit send?
Great updates Sam, all interesting thus far.
I hope Bobby gets at least what ibanez got (he’s better than him for sure), I enjoyed his time here and thought he actually made a little head way in getting better at fielding near the wall. Comparing contracts/vs value is not always fair, the point in a certain players career at which they sign always effects how great of a bargain they look like.
Tom
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
So, GB are you going to be the next Noah?
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Not a chance, Tom. I ain’t lettin’ you animals on my boat. None of you are house broke….or boat broke.
tom
i’m hoping on day i’ll get my first comment.
it’s only two years old so there’s hope.
probably adding a new post , with two years going by since the last one, would help. lol.
GB, Very true. I’m just broke.
Randy, I’m sure if you post about Livan, Nick will comment there.
GreenBeret7
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Tom
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
So, GB are you going to be the next Noah?
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“Not a chance, Tom. I ain’t lettin’ you animals on my boat. None of you are house broke….or boat broke.”
GB, that’s the good thing about us Sox fans….we are all house broke!
“Randy, I’m sure if you post about Livan, Nick will comment there.”
that’s why blogger has a delete button : )
m,
I didn’t say the Yankees need a 3 hitter, Teixeira will be one of the best 3 hitters in the league. I said that Abreu is the only one of the guys this topic is about that can be a good 3 hitter.
If the Yankees did end up keeping Abreu, there’s a good chance that he would have stayed at the 3 with Teixeira hitting 5.
*Kobe Bryant 61 Pts.
New Madison Square Garden record for most points by a garden opponent*
ray (sox fan)
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:04 pm
GB, that’s the good thing about us Sox fans….we are all house broke!
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Ray, I just can’t imagine me living together on a boat for 40 days and 40 nights with a Red Sox fan, watching him drinking my beer.
Evening Ray…how’s the (sox fan) family? Hope the weather is better….not better than mine, though. I couldn’t stand seeing a sox fan overly happy. It’s not good for you.
zell has two new pics up of the new stadium:
http://zellspinstripeblog.com/.....to-update/
Its easy to argue abreu at 16 mil or more is a bad deal. I mean that contract was signed years ago. He is not that kind of player anymore and the yanks were so worried that he would come back at that price that they didnt even offer him arbitration thereby, sacrificing two picks. That should tell you how much GMs and FOs around baseball think bobby is worth even in a good market – not close to 16 mil.
With that said, in this terrible economy with hitters like manny still looking for a job, I think abreu could be an absolute steal. I have nothing to go on but the fact that not a single team in baseball seems anymore than slightly interested. If the mets want him for only one season – they can get him. If they want him for less than half of his salary last season – im pretty sure they could get him. Bobby at 16 mil? Pretty bad but Bobby at 6 mil or so – I would so that is a damn good deal. Abreu is NOT the type of player that can take a team on his back and he never was but if he joins a lineup that already has wright, reyes, beltran, etc., I think he could certainly be an asset. His terrible Defense will have to be tolerated but one year at that kind of price tag, i would think it would be worth it.
Wow, that Gregg Nettles and Bill Lee fracas was nasty.
The 1 year, 25 mil offer to Ramirez from the Dodgers has a string attached. Ramirez has 48 hours to accept. That should push things along.
“Ray, I just can’t imagine me living together on a boat for 40 days and 40 nights with a Red Sox fan, watching him drinking my beer.”
GB, I think the critical question is whether you have good beer on the boat or that cheap stuff and what do you consider good beer?
Plus I think you should give a copy of Torre’s book to everyone on the boat!
just reading the ungrateful idiots and their comments about torre is sickening.what a collection of stiffs.
ray (sox fan)
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 pm
“Ray, I just can’t imagine me living together on a boat for 40 days and 40 nights with a Red Sox fan, watching him drinking my beer.”
GB, I think the critical question is whether you have good beer on the boat or that cheap stuff and what do you consider good beer?
Plus I think you should give a copy of Torre’s book to everyone on the boat!
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I’m not sure about everybody havinga copy of the Torre book, Ray. I would think that toilet paper might be better than slicky paper.
I only drink Coor’s Light. None of that Commie beer like Sam Adamovitch beer for me.
Huh? Frank Torre posts here?
i think these time limit offers are stupid. if manny is worth $25M/yr today he’s still gonna be worth $25M/yr on friday. the economics of the deal arent gonna change this week. i dont think boras is going to respond to the deadline unless he can use it to his advantage.
Randy –
you want to say that to say that to someone almost 80 years old? nice.
I actually AGREE with Randy on something!! Wow.
I don’t think saying mean things about someone nearly 80 is very kind either.
Of course, Frank Torre is 77. George Steinbrenner is 78.
The only ones who should say give negative comments about someone nearing 80 are former NY managers who walk on water.
Joe Torre is 68 right now, for those of you scoring at home.
Which you are not if Bobby Meacham just waved you in, but that’s another story.
Did Bobby Meacham write a Yankee book yet?
I’m not so sure you do understand OPS+. Bobby’s OPS was 20% better than average last year. That’s pretty damn good. No, he’s not in his prime anymore, but he’s still an excellent ballplayer who deserves a rich–if not particularly lengthy–contract. I bet his OBP would’ve been higher the last couple years if he and A-Rod had switched places in the lineup.
*Did Bobby Meacham write a Yankee book yet?*
No, but he *is* taking a page out of Torre’s book, so to speak, and is starting his own charity.
It’s called the Bobby Meacham *Not* Safe At Home Foundation.
“Out At Home – My Yankee Year” by Bobby Meacham, with special Forward my Chien-ming Wang.
Scandalous excerpts from the new Bobby Meacham book.
1) Every time ARod rounded third heading for home he asked me “do I look ok” – “do I remind you of Jeter?”
2) Arod could score from 2nd on a single during the regular season, but during the playoffs he was always slower.
3) Yankee players called me Luis Sojo behind my back.
4) In the clubhouse the other coaches kept replaying the 1985 play of me and Dale Berra being tagged out at home on the same play.
5) I once caught John Sterling crying in the crevices of the broadcast booth. He claimed Suzy got to read all the good promos and threatened to retire. I talked him out of it and was subsequently fired.
It’s called the Bobby Meacham Not Safe At Home Foundation.
LOL Pel. Good one.
It’s called the Bobby Meacham Not Safe At Home Foundation.
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Haha, plus you beat Nick to the punch.
Why I oughta — luckily, I have to go out for a while, Buddy, so it’s likely I won’t remember this treachery later.
You get extra points for referencing hop along wang.
Who is coaching 3B this year? Thomson?
Anyone hear about Manny’s one year deal from the Dodgers at 25 mil? Yanks should swoop in with the same numbers, Manny will obviously choose his hometown.
‘Wow, that Gregg Nettles and Bill Lee fracas was nasty.”
tom-
funny story:
way back in the SPBA, after a rain cancellation from torrential rain, i ran out from the club house to get my catching gear that i left under a bench( the one in the big photo on my blog) .
as i was gathering up everything, i see out of the sideways rain, an opposing player jogging toward me on the warning track.
he said hi as he got a few feet away, and when i started to say hi back i realized it was bill lee. without even thinking, i told him to blank off as i pivoted and went back to the clubhouse. i remember a look like “what the hell” from him.
after taking a shower, i went to shave and there was nettles shaving( he was our first baseman). i mentioned i ran in to lee and nettles looked at me with a slightly quizzical look.
i told him what i said to lee.
he said ” he’s an #$$#hole”.
this was 1990, 12 years after they had the fight.
that may have been the only conversation i had in three months with nettles.
Letting Abreu go was one of the best decisions Cashman made…tho it was really a no-brainer for anyone who watched him play “frightfield” this past year. His defense,with his wall-phobic escapades as the centerpiece, were embarassing; it was not pleasant to watch the facial contortions of Joe G. everytime a ball was hit in Bobby’s direction.
I cannot envision any NL club signing him. He still can do it as a DH (tho he is “soft” the numbers notwithstanding), and probably will get a one year AL gig for 5M to 8M by some non-contender. Good riddance.
Whats the risk of Manny w a 1 yr deal. He essentially needs to rake in order to get his next contract. Its a no-brainer then we can trade Nady and put Swisher in RF.
I believe Abreu ends up with the Mets also. It makes a lot of sense for them, especially with Abreu’s diminished value.
I, too, believe Abreu would probably still be better than Nady next year, but let’s give Nady a full year in pinstripes before we judge him, and same with Swisher. It is good to see the Yankees let someone go a year too early as opposed to the old way of hanging on a year too long.
Rob Neyer annoys me, a lot.
No way New York is going to accept a nuthead like Swisher, who comes to the park with his hair dyed depending on the day of the week; typical California boy who has too much fun to be a good ballplayer. Saw him often in Chicago last year, the papers in N.Y. will have a field day- he will not be a help to the Yankees, whose tradition was not built on players like him!
Letting Bobby go was a big mistake. The Yankees had a lot of things wrong with them last year but Bobby Abreu wasn’t one of them. Yes I am thrilled about Tex but is he going to be able to match the production of the missing Giambi and Abreu by himself…No way.
I can never understand the Bobby Abreu haters out there. The man bats .296, hits 20 home runs, 39 doubles, knocks in 100 rbi’s, scores 100 times, steals 22 bases, makes 10 assists and all you want to do is talk about his declining skills and his fear of walls.
He was a great player for the Yankees and they treated him like garbage…for shame!
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