A circus on 5th Ave
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 03, 2009 
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While waiting for Joe Torre to arrive at the midtown bookstore earlier today, one reporter joked that there were more journlaists waiting for Torre – who no longer works in New York – than were in the room when the Jets introduced their new head coach, Rex Ryan.
Thing is, he was probably right.
The store was packed, both with media and fans. The second floor was essentially shut down, which was bad news if you were interested in picking up a DVD, a children’s book, a graphic novel of any kind or one of the several shelves of books being advertised as “bargains!”
The line for would-be signers was closed around 11 a.m. for a 12:30 p.m. signing. The store, according to one employee, had sold out of all copies it had a little after noon. Outside, snow was falling heavily but a line of people hoping for autographs stretched around the corner and halfway down the next block.
One of the people in line, John Garges of Yonkers, said he was there because he had made a deal with a friend in which he would go buy three copies of “The Yankees Years” in exchange for two other books.
Although Torre has been criticized for writing the book by posters on blogs and other message boards (including this one, obviously), there was little negativity that I saw from the folks at the store. Lots of smiles and cheers for Torre and it certainly didn’t appear that fans of Torre’s current employer are worried about his place in their clubhouse; there were more than a couple of people wearing Dodger hats grinning as they exited with signed books.
No one seemed all that upset about the notion that Torre might have broken some clubhouse trust. At one point during his time with the media, Torre tried to explain his rationale for writing so frankly about players on his team.
“What I wrote about individual players, depending on who they were, in some instances I wanted to humanize them more than they were as opposed to thinking they were one player making too much money or a lot of money,” he said. “And you don’t get an idea of what the heartbeat is. That’s why I talked about certain things in and around the clubhouse.”
Apparently, those dolts are more forgiving than I am.
I wonder how many more there could have been…
Orlando Hudson? Really?
Anyone heard anything about this?
What did you hear Jake??
YankeeRay
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Laura – Welcome back, Andy!!
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
“We are better this year with Manny at DH.”
YankeeRay, I think that even after LAD signs Manny, you’ll still be on here trying to figure out how we can trade for him. LOL!
——-
LOL Laura. On that note, I wouldn’t want to trade for Manny because he would cost too much in return. But if the Dodgers sign him for 1 yr I will have to start all over again next year in my recruitment of him when we will be looking to replace Nady,Matsui and Damon. Why not just take care of all family business this year?
——–
SJ, I respect your opinions but wouldn’t you agree that Manny belongs in the AL? I don’t think the LAD will go any higher and neither will SF.
At the end of the day the Yankees are the best place for him over the next 3 yrs. It’s just a matter of us clearing salary and 40 man roster space.
No number 1 draft pick to give up, and he plays with his buddy in his home town against the red sox.
Why isn’t that the best place for him?
——-
Bronx Jeers
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Matsui makes 13 mil/ Nady 6.55
Matsui is going nowhere.
——-
Perfect, trady Nady and eat half of Matsuis salary and get low level prospects in return.
Manny now costs us 7-10mm in salary addition that we defer for this year.
Our line up is now way better and everyone is happy.
Why is this so hard to understand?
——-
ray (sox fan)
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
YankeeRay………honest now…..tell me……are you really Scott Boras??
Just kidding.
—-
No because I am only looking for 20-22mm for 3 yrs. If I was Boras I would be looking for more and more.
Just got back from the signing,it was packed those poor people outside.Joe was very nice taking alot of pics and joking around with everyone
hey rikers -
Michael Kay wants you to call in…
rikers-Michael Kay wants you to call up
Lol..Rishi you beat me to it
Those are Torre’s words? RIGHT. Nice try, agents.
I’ve refrained form any further commenst until the satrt of the book tour and the interviews….But I want to go on the record and say that in about two weeks the bandwagoners will have done their Phil Hughes, Andy Pettite Joe Torre, and what ever issues that arises and make their typical leaps…..I’m just surprised we don’t have more bloggers ending up on the DL with sprained and broken ankles as band wagon jumping is a monthly event here at Team LoHud…..
Torre = scumbag
Even in your scenario, Manny cost the Yankees over 30 million dollars (counting the money they are eating in a Matsui trade) as well as trading (or giving away) two players.
——-
SJ, how do you figure 30mm?
Eating half of Matsuis salary is 6.5 and Manny at 22-24 = 28-30mm. Now subtract the 6.5 of Matsuis and the 6.5 of Nady’s and the end result is around 10-12mm in addition to add the best RH hitter along with Arod of our generation as they say on MLB network.
story is orlando hudson is getting an offer from the dodgers i think? they need someone toreplace kent i suppose.
SA – GMTA
Kay needs to calm down a little bit. It’s not like it -16 degrees with the storm of the century going on outside.
YankeeRay
Right on!
I think we need to hold a Manny rally like mets fans did.
jake
he was on the mlb network and they sk who he has convo with and he mentioned the yanks were interested in his service
Torre is a bitter hypocritical and full of crap. He violates the sanctity of the clubhouse to dump on easy targets who played only a few years for him while the guys who won championships for him got off unscathed. He took the easy way out and didn’t have the guts to talk out of turn about players like Jeter, O’Neill, Tino, Mo and others who are more popular than he is and would only hurt how he’s viewed.
I don’t know why people are buying this book since there’s nothing new in it and the author is an ungrateful punk.
It is simple. Torre lovers went to the signing. The people that aren’t happy with him didn’t. Just because there were 100 fools standing out in the cold and snow doesn’t mean a majority of Yankee fans are happy with what Joe did.
I’m skipping ahead and will go back and catch up on the posts and listen to Mr. Torre in his own words, but I have to ‘fess up.
I was out and I stopped in at the local Barnes & Noble in North Brunswick, NJ, and I ended up buying the book. I was not going to. I was going to simply hang around the store with a Starbucks and spend a morning or two reading it. But, you know, convenience got the better of me.
Anyway, the book was not displayed prominently at all – it was on a table with all the latest non-fiction books. It was on the back of the table, lying flat, so you really had to look for it. At first, I thought they were either sold out or didn’t have it. There was no throng of people clamoring for the book at this particular store in central NJ at 2:20 this afternoon.
So, obviously I plan on reading the book.
I did flip through a bit at the store, and ran across a section that was talking about his decision to play Sheffield at first base. It looked interesting.
Sounds like there were a lot of *sheep* out on 5th Ave. today.
YankeeRay: what are you trading Nady for that doesn’t draw a salary?
Brad Pitt’s better-looking brother
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
YankeeRay
I am picturing you with a Fathead of Manny on your bedroom wall, several autographed photos of him about the house, and a dreadlock wig on the dresser you wear out under your ballcap on special ocassions.
In the heat of the moment do you ever…
no, never mind.
——-
Brad, to be honest, I don’t even like Manny, just want to win another g damn title lol.
By the way, my user name isn’t a namesake of another man lol.
Yankee Ray:
It’s not $30M total, but you are also failing to add 40% for every dollar you add. You trade the untradeable Matsui, paying half his salary and trade Nady while taking back Ramirez at $24M, you’ve added $11M to your payroll and $4.4M to the teams luxury tax payment. So you’ve added $15.4 million and in doing so did not address potential issues at centerfield and catcher and robbed yourself of roster flexibility.
Have people talked about Michael Kay’s interview? I tried listening in my car – but you’d think I lived in Oshkosk or something – the reception was awful!!!!! I couldn’t make out anything.
Ray: I don’t think Manny would agree to DH. I seem to recall from his early RS days that that was an issue with him.
Ray: I don’t think Manny would agree to DH. I seem to recall from his early RS days that that was an issue with him.
I cannot wait for this boring story to go away. Pitchers and catchers cannot report soon enough.
“LOL Laura. On that note, I wouldn’t want to trade for Manny because he would cost too much in return. But if the Dodgers sign him for 1 yr I will have to start all over again next year in my recruitment of him when we will be looking to replace Nady,Matsui and Damon. Why not just take care of all family business this year?”
Because Holliday will be available next year. I don’t want him going to BOS.
i want manny cuz hes clutch and hell make the lineup better dont you see what this guy has donee he carry the dodgers to the playoffs we didint even make it as a team last season im telling u we add manyy well have a championship
it was Michael Kay commenting on Andrew Marchand’s recording of Torre’s interview with the pool reporters…not too exciting.
“they need someone toreplace kent i suppose.”
They’ve got a kid named DeWitt who tops the 2b depth chart right now, but it wouldn’t be shocking to them looking to upgrade.
“I did flip through a bit at the store, and ran across a section that was talking about his decision to play Sheffield at first base. It looked interesting.”
This ranks as one of his biggest mistakes. The team was firing on all cylinders until he felt that he had to put Sheff back in the lineup. I understand what a force Sheff can be, but it was not the time to rock the boat with something so experimental.
Of course the people waiting on line to get Torre’s autograph are on his side. You don’t make a pilgrimage to spit on the altar.
Ray,
Why would the Yanks want to eat 1/2 of Matsui’s contract. And which team would want Matsui anyway. He’s coming off surgery again. He can’t play defense anymore. He’s really just an expensive question mark. Nady may be tradable but at this point there are still guys availavle that won’t cost anything except money. And why would Manny want to get his money deferred? He has no special allegiance to the Yanks. Probably more like the opposite.
I like Manny as well but the reality is that the Yanks chose Tex as the big bat addition this winter. Besides Yanks can’t really afford to get worse defensively in the OF.
Jeremy
good way to put it.
“This is the most complete and well rounded ball team that has been in the Bronx in quite sometime…Balanced and with some depth and versatility….Manny would have been a clear option had they not picked up Mark Texeria…..This club has the earmarks iof being a very good ballteam….Be satisfied in waht we have….”
——
This is a well balanced team that is losing Nady maybe this year and Matsui and maybe Damon next year.
I’m not satified with what we have because I am a spoiled Yankee fan from NY who wants to win now. Our line up is not the best in baseball but would be with Manny.
—–
Nick in SF
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
YankeeRay: what are you trading Nady for that doesn’t draw a salary?
—-
Nick, I would expect that we could get a salary drawing player if we are going to move Nady the way it has been rumored. In my scenario I would trade Nady for a low level non 40 man rostered player only if Manny is in the deal.
I compare this to the Godfather baptism where in one swoop we dump Matsui and Nady and announce the Manny signing the same day.
Another thing, Ray: You seem to be assuming Manny will behave like a normal player going forward. I think what teams are worried about is, (1) they sign Manny to a two or three year deal over $20million AAV, (2) he performs well for 3 months, (4) he then decides he’s entitled to a extension and a raise, (5) team refuses to give him the bigger contract he wants, and (5) he starts faking injuries, dogging it on the field, being a jerk, etc. What assurance would the Yankees have of avoiding that scenario?
“I compare this to the Godfather baptism where in one swoop we dump Matsui and Nady and announce the Manny signing the same day.”
Can I have some of whatever it is that you are smokin’?
I like you much better than Peter. You need to take over this blog
I like your writing style much more. It’s friendlier and more inviting as well as more informative. Thanks Sam. Good job!!
Doreen
Michael Kay’s interview was basically the audio Sam provided.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Joe Torre. Some of the people on this blog and in the New York media parse every word and paragraph. Seldom, if ever, does anything ever suit. Either somewhat out of school, and therefore informed and informative, and that doesn’t satisfy. On the other hand, sometimes the inside scoop is simply to vanilla. That doesn’t satisfy either. These are people we don’t know, putting on a grand show. Shut up, and enjoy it.
Barry Lane
from past thread:
NYYanksFan
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
randy l
I admittedly know nothing of clubhouse culture or your experience in a clubhouse. Do Magrane, Larkin, Leiter, Reynolds and Mussina know less of the clubhouse culture than you do or are they just a vocal minority who thinks an active manager writing a book about players is inappropriate?
……………………………………………………….
nyyanksfan-
the only person in a clubhouse that has less clout in a clubhouse than the bullpen catcher is the kid who picks up the socks you throw on the floor, but what i do know is i lasted two years with clete boyer as my manager so i think i have some idea of how a yankee does things.
this book is not controversial to yankee fans because it talks about behind the scenes baseball; it’s controversial because it’s talking about behind the scenes with the yankees.
i agree there’s a tone from torre that shows bitterness towards the seven people in the room that sealed torres fate. forget the player stuff. it’s no big deal. the tone towards those seven people is where the controversy is.
people mistakenly equate those seven people with being the yankees. they aren’t. for myself, besides george i don’t really have much interest in those six people.
they certainly aren’t the yankees.
if those 6 people left the yankees, it wouldn’t hurt the yankees one bit and would likely help them.
magrane was a cardinal
larkin was red
leiter was a met
reynolds was a mariner
mussina was an oriole( never bought in to being a yankee)
i like the yankees. as far as the yankees go, why should i care what these guys say ?
do you have any idea what torre could say if he wanted to? he gave out probably half of one percent of what he could say.
i’m my extremely limited time being around pro teams, i one night found myself having the gm of the team in a head lock after tony cloninger,our pitching coach, told me to get him out of the room after clete took a swing at him for popping off at clete about something.
then once out of the room, i had to get him down the hallway, into the elevator, down to the lobby of the hotel, and into a cab to send him home,all without him seeing my face.
having the gm of your team in a head lock is not a good career move for a bullpen catcher, but things like that happen. and that’s not even one of the best/worst stories i could tell.
what torre told was the tip of the iceberg of what he knows. i believe him when he says he wrote it to celebrate his yankee years and that he included some bad to make it real.
if he wanted to write a tell all that bashed the yankees, that would have been a totally different book.
Laura – Welcome back, Andy!!
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
“I compare this to the Godfather baptism where in one swoop we dump Matsui and Nady and announce the Manny signing the same day.”
Can I have some of whatever it is that you are smokin’?
—–
I stopped awhile ago. Michael Phelps has my bong now.
Well if you put it in terms of The Godfather, whacking Matsui and Nady may be more realistic than trading them.
YankeeRay: I don’t see Brian Cashman constructing this Rube Goldberg set of trades to create a space for Manny.
I know you want it to happen. Do you think it will happen?
BD
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Another thing, Ray: You seem to be assuming Manny will behave like a normal player going forward. I think what teams are worried about is, (1) they sign Manny to a two or three year deal over $20million AAV, (2) he performs well for 3 months, (4) he then decides he’s entitled to a extension and a raise, (5) team refuses to give him the bigger contract he wants, and (5) he starts faking injuries, dogging it on the field, being a jerk, etc. What assurance would the Yankees have of avoiding that scenario?
——
What guarantees are there for anyone. I go back to what Don Mattingly has been saying about him. I trust Donnie and if he’s saying those things because he wants Manny back then thats more of a validation.
Boras is nobody’s fool. He either calculates that (i) the Dodgers will always be there, till the bitter end, or (ii) he senses, or knows, that it will be “Teix Redux”.
The “burning question????…..What did Cashman and/or the Steinees say when Boras asked, at the conclusion of the Teix PC, “Now, what about Manny?.
…..Absolutely, no way.
…..Possible, come back and check to see if we have cleared roster space sometime in February. “If” we are then interested, you will know by whom we have cleared.
…..What do you think, Scottie? Obviously we have to clear space. Matsui and either Nady or Swisher will have to be dealt. If we do, then we’ll talk, but to be clear, your asking terms are not within the ballpark by any stretch of the imagination. You will have to show us what deals you then have in hand for us to match.
Bronx Jeers
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Ray,
Why would the Yanks want to eat 1/2 of Matsui’s contract. And which team would want Matsui anyway. He’s coming off surgery again. He can’t play defense anymore
——
Oh but this is the guy that we want in our 5 hole protecting Arod in the year that we move into our new stadium?
Its not worth eating half his salary to get better in transitional year? Send him to seattle of SF when they lose out on Manny.
Nady to the Giants for a minor league arm, essentially a salary dump for Manny and we save 6.5 mil. Maybe the young arm turns into something for us.
i heard a rumor that the tigers are willing to trade verlander i think stark said this i would love to have verlander he has a great arm and he probably take andy spot when hes gone
“What guarantees are there for anyone.”
Well, other players don’t have the history of acting up like Manny does. The Yankees don’t have to worry about AJ or CC all of a sudden acting a fool because they never have. Manny has that special talent listed prominently on his resume. As such, worrying about his behavior is legitimate. And you can’t go by what he did in LAD. He was playing for a contract. He was bound to be on his best behavior. After he gets the guarantee contract, all bets are off where he is concerned.
“What guarantees are there for anyone. ”
I feel pretty certain neither Matsui and Nady would do what Manny did in Boston.
First, how is Pavano Hughes progressing w/his multiple injuries from years gone past? Secondly, again, it is America. Torre didn’t break any laws in what he said. He won us 4 rings, that is 4 more than Girardi will win for us and 4 more than A Fraud will win for us. Be thankful. Until the Fraud is gone, this team won’t win a title again, bank on it
“i heard a rumor that the tigers are willing to trade verlander i think stark said this i would love to have verlander he has a great arm and he probably take andy spot when hes gone”
Why do you think the Tigers want to dump Verlander? Perhaps it’s because he sucked big time last year. Sounds about right. I think he’s Garland part 2. He got burned out and now has nothing left in the tank. Besides, Hughes will take Andy’s spot next year.
there goes the abreu rumor it was shot down
“This ranks as one of his biggest mistakes. The team was firing on all cylinders until he felt that he had to put Sheff back in the lineup.”
Tough call Laura. Torre faced the same thing with Matsui too. Yankees were going pretty well, but after leaving the Red Sox in the dust up in the Boston, they closed the season by going 22-17 over the last 40 days. Melky and Bernie, who were getting the AB’s left behind by Matsui and Shefflied, both had lousy Septembers.
If Torre loses that series to Detroit with Sheffield and/or Matsui on the bench and the chilled bats of Bernie and Melky in the lineup, he gets absolutely roasted for it. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario.
Or how about Cashman just gets Luca Brazzi to put a gun to Manny’s head to get him to sign for 100$.
“Manny, either your brains or your signature will be on this contract”
These players get paid millions of dollars to be public figures. Part of the deal is that nothing is private. If David Wells wanted privacy instead of 8-figure contracts there are plenty of other career options out there. If you want 10,000,000 for throwing a ball, expect that you will lack some privacy.
If any Manny scenario depends at all on the San Francisco Giants taking Matsui for anything by free, I’m off the bus.
my gurls shut the …. up u ask the same damm question every single day do u have sumtin good to say go sumwhere else to bother
Doesn’t Matsui have a NTC? I thought he did.
Lisa in Whitestone again calling up the Michael Kay show. Cheating on Francesa..shame on her.
for anything *but* free
is this Lisa’s full time job???
Cut down on the smokes Lisa.
Furthermore, what’s this about sending Matsui to Seattle once they miss out on Manny? In what way are they in contention to sign Manny?
How funny is Lisa? lol Classic call.
“Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario.”
True, but that’s the case for any managerial decision. I just felt that asking Sheff to man a position that was so unfamiliar to him (during the playoffs no less) was a bonehead move. Just my opinion.
Alright already, I would like to host a 15 minute Manny debate on conference call for anyone that would like to join for free.
Lets make it a gentlemanly call.
You can dial into my company conference bridge for free. Don’t give your name when prompted just press #. You don’t have to give your number.
I will host the call at 3:40 edt so we can be done before Torre dances with Francessa.
Please join in if you are interested.
1.866.994.6437
Pascode – 577597 #
Plus, if the Yankees signed Manny, the market for Matsui and Nady would drop like a stone. Teams would know the Yankees had to dump them and the Yankees would end up paying any even greater share of their salaries.
Nick in SF
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Furthermore, what’s this about sending Matsui to Seattle once they miss out on Manny? In what way are they in contention to sign Manny?
—–
I meant to SF after they lost out on Manny
hahaha, can’t do the conference call. And the risk of brainwashing is too great anyway.
“These players get paid millions of dollars to be public figures. Part of the deal is that nothing is private.”
This is exactly what is wrong with the world today. People think that just because you make a lot of money that it entitles them to know your private business. Wrong!!!! Johnny Damon battling with depression is none of my damn business; I don’t care how much money he makes. When he signed his contract to play with the Yankees, he was promising to play baseball. He was not agreeing to air his personal business in the street.
Please join now if you want, I’m on. I wont cut you off like Francessa lol.
1.866.994.6437
Pascode – 577597 #
‘I’m just surprised we don’t have more bloggers ending up on the DL with sprained and broken ankles as band wagon jumping is a monthly event here at Team LoHud…..”
And thats not to mention all the “high horse” writing that goes on either.
“This ranks as one of his biggest mistakes. The team was firing on all cylinders until he felt that he had to put Sheff back in the lineup.”
i hated the idea of putting sheffield in at first at the time because the team was playing so well before that, but there’s precedence for that kind of move in the playoffs.
gb7 pointed last week out the tigers put mickey stanley, the center fielder, in to play short stop for a world series that i think the tigers won.
sheffield off the bench for one big at bat would have been preferable to me.
OH. MY. GOD.
I’m tempted to call.
1. you said Seattle and SF.
2. The Giants aren’t taking Matsui according to me.
Nick in SF
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
hahaha, can’t do the conference call. And the risk of brainwashing is too great anyway.
—-
Sounds like I almost have you converted Nick lol
Tom, you should do it. I want an independent report!
In all the Manny speculation, be sure to save some payroll space for an outfielder next year. You can give up a lot of inside the park home runs in Yankee Stadium without a left fielder.
BD
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Plus, if the Yankees signed Manny, the market for Matsui and Nady would drop like a stone. Teams would know the Yankees had to dump them and the Yankees would end up paying any even greater share of their salaries.
—-
Exactly, thats why it has to be done in one swoop. We wouldn’t want much back anyway and the market would be good to get a cheap young prospect.
sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign mannysign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign mannysign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign mannysign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign manny sign
Wave Your Hat
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
In all the Manny speculation, be sure to save some payroll space for an outfielder next year. You can give up a lot of inside the park home runs in Yankee Stadium without a left fielder.
—–
Ajax will hopefully take care of that and Pettittes payroll drop will help the cause too.
Damon can cover all that ground but you need someone to throw the ball back in for him way out there.
Nick, I wouldn’t bring much to the table. Manny on the Yankees, to me, is like the Sasquatch or U.F.Os. I could be awesome if it existed, but the likelyhood of it happening is slim to none.
No takers on the call? I’ll just have to show you that the pen is still mightier than the sword lol.
Laura,
Exactly. The size of one’s tax return does not affect their privacy. That’s not how it works.
Just because you make a lot of money, doesn’t mean you give up rights because of it.
If a clubhouse isn’t private, the person residing over it (a coach/manager) isn’t going to be employed for very long.
Folks mistake some fans desire to hear/read gossip with it being a “right” to hear/read such gossip.
Fans have no rights to know what goes on in or out of the locker room when it comes to player activity.
That isn’t covered by your ticket purchase.
Why did Joe Torre have a hard time with David Wells’ book?
Seems pretty two-faced to me.
Why did Joe Torre have a hard time with David Wells’ book?
Seems pretty two-faced to me.
I would call you Ray but I,m afraid you’ll turn me into the Di Niro character in that movie “The Fan” and I don’t have the chops to cut poor Matsui’s femoral artery.
I just heard on WEEI that Abreu was offered a one year $8 mil deal by the Chisox.
I so am going to miss him. I wanted the Yankees to bring him back so badly.
On a happier note, they also said that the Washington Post has reported that Clemens DNA is link to the bloody steroid syringes that McNamee used to inject the porker.
Wait. Just push me over with a feather. REALLY?????? Well I am just in a state of shock because I really believed that Andy misremembered and the photo that showed Clemens at Canseco’s party was doctored by someone with photoshop and the fat boy truly didn’t know that his wife was getting injected by McNamee.
Seriously. I wasn’t here when that whole debacle was happening so this obviously isn’t meant for anyone personally since I didn’t hear any of the debate here – but you had to be one pathetic homer if you were still holding out for Clemens and just indignantly waiting for the syringes to show that Clemens’ DNA wasn’t there. Like I don’t think you had to be a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that Pinnocchio Clemens was so full of crap that he looked permanently tan!
WAY TO GO FAT BOY! NOW YOU MAY NOT PASS GO AND WHEN YOU GET TO JAIL YOU WILL NOT BE “JUST VISITING”!
Up next – Andy visits the federal grand jury.
trisha the rumor was shot down about abreu
“Why did Joe Torre have a hard time with David Wells’ book?
*Seems pretty two-faced to me.*”
Joe, I believe you got to the heart of the matter…
YankeeRay, the concept of Manny in pinstripes is not anathema to me as it is to some, but as I said, the complex logistics involve make it highly unlikely *even if the Yankees wanted to make it happen*.
So again, do you think this will happen?
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo....._form.html
Bronx Jeers
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I would call you Ray but I,m afraid you’ll turn me into the Di Niro character in that movie “The Fan” and I don’t have the chops to cut poor Matsui’s femoral artery.
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LOL, I live in So Fla and don’t have access to the tools to do you like that lol.
yankeefan, for real? You know I’m going to be sad no matter where he ends up (since it doesn’t appear it will be with the Yanks) – but I really hope he gets signed because he will definitely enhance some major league team.
Another report, if you can believe this one! (Unless this has already been reported, or it is found to be not true).
Manny the nutcase was offered a one-year $25 mil deal by the Dodgers and he turned it down. It is said they are now looking at Adam Dunn and Orlando Hudson.
All work and no Manny makes YankeeRay a dull boy.
Tagline change.
No matter what happens at these book signings and no matter how it appears that the Dodgers feel or don’t feel, you can believe that nobody is going to open up in front of that creature from the deep anymore.
Trust. HARDEE HAR HAR HAR HAR.
What a loser.
Oh Yankeeray I didn’t even see you here. Sorry I called Manny a nutcase. It doesn’t mean he isn’t a great player!
Posada: “Joe’s done nothing wrong, in my eyes. He’s been a father figure to me, so I don’t think he can do any wrong.”
So we can totally discount him saying that Joe didn’t do anything wrong. Even if Joe did do something wrong, Jorge wouldn’t cop to it. Next!!
Tom
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
All work and no Manny makes YankeeRay a dull boy.
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Heres Johnny
Tom, the window is now but will close soon. Then it’s on without Manny and we will be fine, I just won’t bet the house on the yanks like I would with him.
And believe it or not, I have never been a Manny fan, just see the need in the 5 hole.
Joe Torre may or may not be two-faced, but there’s a much simpler explanation for what he said about David Wells’ book and his own book:
When Wells’ book came out, Joe Torre was the manager of the Yankees and Wells’ book was not in the best interests of the Yankees.
Joe Torre’s book is also not in the best interests of the Yankees but Torre is no longer an employee, so that’s no longer a priority.
trisha – Joe Torre is a major league fraud
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Oh Yankeeray I didn’t even see you here. Sorry I called Manny a nutcase. It doesn’t mean he isn’t a great player!
—
e tu Trish
Actually he has been and I subscribe to the theory that he wouldn’t be with us in our clubhouse. Somehow all of those characters in there would keep him in tact. I actually think a little of the idiot mentality that Boston has is somewhat healthy compared to the the traditional yankee way. It didn’t work for Willie at shea.
Laura,
Leaving Damon aside – I like him a lot (even when he was with Boston, I know I shouldn’t say or even think that) – I respectfully think you are wrong about players’ expectations of privacy.
Expectations of privacy vary from job to job, and from the way society has respected the privacy of people in similar situations.
For instance, personally, I don’t think it’s any of our business if some politician is caught cheating on his wife, but it would be unreasonable to say that that politician had an expectation of privacy. Politicians know the way the game is played.
Ballplayers play in the public eye. They know, for better or for worse, that people want to know what goes on in the clubhouse. They know books are written, and articles written, which reveal potentially embarrassing personal stories.
No player can IMO rightfully claim they are surprised if some book comes out and they are in it.
Players don’t make the salaries they do because people like to watch baseball. That’s part of it, but it is far from the whole story. Players get paid what they do because of the enormous amount of money directed towards the game, and the celebrity aspect of the game is responsible for a good chunk of that money.
That said, I suspect when I read the book a lot of these accusations will turn out to be overdone. I’m with randy l in thinking Torre knows better than almost anyone what can be said and what can’t.
Nick,
That’s it in a nutshell. Makes it hypocritical to me.
In the grand scheme though, it doesn’t affect the Yankees for this season. Which is what matters.
It also means Joe loses the high moral ground when it comes to discussing his time in NY.
He’s no different than any of the folks still employed by the Yankees he finds so distasteful.
Perhaps that’s the real rub. He’s more like the folks he despises there more than he cares to admit.
Either way, you have to admit, its made for some good time killing prior to pitchers and catchers reporting.
I love how money isn’t part of the Torre equation. Is the book FREE ??? Is it being sold AT COST ?
Still with the “sign Manny” nonsense? It is an awful idea, give it up.
YankeeRay, I hear ya and I do agree that Manny in pinstripes would give the Yankees a great lineup. It’s just the sequence of events that have to occur for it to happen read like something out of a Pynchon novel.
Thanks, Rishi & Pat. Then once I listen to Sam’s audio, I won’t have missed anything.
Clemens isn’t going down if all the evidence the feds have is Brian McNamee’s 8 year old syringe where anything could have been added to it. A 1st year law student would run holes in this case.
SJ44, Is your beef with Joe Torre more slanted due to his disclosure regarding the Front Office more than the issues with the minor player references…Is your stance being swayed due to your affilications as upper mgt / investor ??? I just think the minor revelations about some not so secret quips wouldn’t get you to tale such a unmovable position…..The heavy blows are reserved for the FO….
I wish that dude from that new Fox show (Lie to Me) would interview Torre.
Joe would have to do the interview in a dark closet.
anyone listening to Mike F…anything intersting going on there?
My next book is going to be about how ridiculous Yankee fans are and what a crappy newspaper the journal news is.
How does what Nick said argue for Torre being a hypocrite? Seems to argue the other way around to me.
Wave,
That is so wrong on so many levels, its comical.
Do you mean to tell me that Johnny Damon should expect to have talk of his depression covered in a book? Or, Kevin Brown being discussed about crying, and in the fetal position, simply because they make a lot of money?
Are you for real?
Comparing ballplayers to politicians is also off base.
Politicians are ELECTED officials. They have a responsibility, due to the fact they are elected by the people, and a transparency to their job, that ballplayers don’t have.
You base this entire premise of yours on the fact that “because ballplayers make a lot of money, they should expect this”.
Simply put, that’s BS.
No ballplayer should “expect” his manager to share clubhouse secrets. That’s not how it works in professional sports.
Just because fans “want to know” what’s going on, doesn’t mean players lose their privacy rights.
Its sad that you respect ballplayers so little as to believe their privacy leaves because of the size of their tax return.
Shows how little respect you have for players.
DT: who said money wasn’t in the equation:
A couple threads ago I suggested that the prime motivating factors were probably money, revenge/setting the record ‘straight’, and money.
I’ve since learned that I revealed more about myself than about anything else. But it’s good to get that off my chest!
If the Dodgers don’t sign Manny, Torre is in for a long summer and becomes Joe Ordinary like he almost became last year. The book will be seen at rummage sales / yard sales selling for 25 cents marked down from 50 cents.
Anyone else think trading for Nady was a really bad idea?
SJ44, you are full of it.
Instead of making personal attacks, why don’t you argue with rationality? Maybe because you don’t know how?
When you attack me, why don’t you at least read what I wrote? Is that too hard for you? My guess is it is. It would get in the way of your diatribes.
Where did I say in my post that people who make a lot of money should expect this?” It isn’t there, but don’t let that get in the way of your moronic and defamatory replies.
YankeeRay -
Another great argument for the “Sign Manny” campaign trail.
http://tinyurl.com/bl3eyz
Pat M,
The front office stuff doesn’t bother me. I knew of the issues he had with everybody in the front office.
Some were legitimate beefs, some weren’t.
As I’ve written earlier, bashing the Yankee front office is a time honored tradition. I don’t know of an Ex-Yankee employee who hasn’t ripped the front office upon their departure during the Steinbrenner Era.
Hitting on some of the players, particularly on some of the sensitive stuff, is what’s disappointing to me.
It goes completely against what he preached during his time in NY.
I know of guys he has laid out verbally for, in his opinion, “violating” the clubhouse code.
He did it with Damon, Giambi, Arod, Boomer all the time, and a few other guys.
Now, he reveals some stuff that, frankly, shouldn’t be in the public eye.
Its just disappointing to me. He had the high road in his departure. Now, he’s more like the guys he rips.
That’s the disappointing part to me.
As far as it hurting the team? It won’t hurt the team in the slightest.
It does though, regardless of where you sit on the issue, hit Torre’s rep a bit. Something that, IMO, he shouldn’t have done for money he doesn’t need.
I was just talking with journeyman reliever Eddie Guarduro, just signed with Texas, should be announced a few ninutes….Good guy…Says Yanks are loaded, a frightening task to face that lineup……The Torre issue is a non issue… He’a a 18 year vet…
If Joe went into detail on why 3 or 4 pitchers didn’t want Jorge catching them the last few years, he might be singing a different tune.
Torre is a fraud.
randy l
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
“This ranks as one of his biggest mistakes. The team was firing on all cylinders until he felt that he had to put Sheff back in the lineup.”
i hated the idea of putting sheffield in at first at the time because the team was playing so well before that, but there’s precedence for that kind of move in the playoffs.
gb7 pointed last week out the tigers put mickey stanley, the center fielder, in to play short stop for a world series that i think the tigers won.
sheffield off the bench for one big at bat would have been preferable to me.
————————————————————
Kaline said that nobody was more shocked than Mickey Stanley when Mayo Smith started playing him at shortstop the last week of the season. He had played one game earlier in the season at SS and 1 inning at 2nd base. He had never played anything in pro ball except the outfield. It was a big gamble, but, not as bad as gambling that Ray Oyler trying to get a hit off of Bob Gibson, Nellie Briles or Ray Washburn. He hit a whopping .135 in ’68. Smith said later, that it was to get Kaline into the lineup every game. He had missed a ton of games that year with injuries.
“No ballplayer should “expect” his manager to share clubhouse secrets. That’s not how it works in professional sports.”
Also, I think that in most respects, a team is essentially a family. These guys are spending more time together than they do with their wives and kids. Would you want a member of your family writing a tell all book? Let’s ask Mark McGuire what he thinks about his brother’s book. McGuire is no saint (in fact, he’s a cheater), but that doesn’t mean that his brother’s betrayal doesn’t sting. What Torre is doing to his former family is no different.
torre wit francessa now
Easy steps to getting Manny:
1. Trade Nady to either Seattle or San Francisco for a young pitching/outfield prospect. Clear 6.5 mil.
2. Keep Matsui and Swisher.
3. Ask A-Rod to defer his salary 1 year and take only 15 mil in 09. Wanting protection in the line-up A-Rod might accept.
4. 12.5 million saved from the A-Rod money combined with 6.5 million saved with Nady trade comes out to 19 million saved.
If Manny takes 1 year 25 mil we essentially get Manny for only a 5 million dollar payroll hit.
This would be the ideal situation. Swisher is a keeper because hes young and has on-base/power potential.
“SJ44, you are full of it.”
I see that the love fest between SJ44 and Wave Your Hat continues.
Re: Manny
It made sense when Swisher was the 1b/lf and Posada could take some games at 1b with Swisher moving to lf.
Signing Tex changed all that.
Now singing Manny to DH only makes sense if they trade Matsui AND Posada.
In other words, it makes no sense.
rodg12
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
YankeeRay –
Another great argument for the “Sign Manny” campaign trail.
http://tinyurl.com/bl3eyz
“He throws out base runners at the plate — he twice led the league in outfield assists.”
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yeah but he can’t play OF for us and is potentially a cancer
Nick – I know that he can spin it any way he wants but someone who was so huge on keeping things in house that he found ways to jettison players who talked to the press and who emphasized the issue of trust has totally violated that principle, and he found a way to bring players down in the process, those who had obviously trusted him. Nice that he bagged Mussina and managed to kick Mariano in the face. Actually I thought this was a very good question that Bill Madden put out there:
“Interesting inside baseball stuff, but why would Torre want Rivera, the man most responsible for making him a multi-millionaire, come off looking like a culprit? If it was a mistake to think Roberts would be running on the first pitch, why didn’t Torre or Mel Stottlemyre tip Rivera off to that and instruct him not to throw over to first? And if they knew the three throw-overs had sufficiently warmed Roberts up to steal, why didn’t they then pitch out?”
The same reason that the traitor Joe put Paul Quantrill in a corner to gather rust and trotted Bruney out there until the poor guy didn’t have an arm left and then dumped him unceremoniously and did the same thing to Proctor. He might have schmoozed his way into have everyone believe that he was father Joe to the guys, but he sucked as a manager when it came to pitchers.
I can’t stand the guy so much at this point that I have to say that to me he is as ugly on the inside as he is on the outside – and that’s going some.
And oh yeah, here’s another one. That loser had no idea that Moose was hanging up his cleats when he contracted to write his book. Wasn’t it going to be sweet if Moose was hung out to dry and then had to face Mariano?
That devil knew what he was doing. He’s vindictive as the day is long. That was payback to the Yankee organization for making him a multimillionaire and helping him obtain god status. Luckily the devil in him showed and so his wings and halo have disappeared.
Did you read Madden’s column? I loved it. May favorite lines?
“And when it comes to them finally getting around to retiring ol’ No. 6, it’s a better bet they’d do it to honor their newest Hall-of-Famer, Joe Gordon, or even perennial prodigal son Roy White rather than the man who wore it while managing them to four world championships.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ises_.html
HBO had a great documentary on the ’68 Tigers called, A City on Fire: The Story of the ’68 Detroit Tigers.
Big Handsome
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Anyone else think trading for Nady was a really bad idea?
——-
So who sits Nady or Swisher?
No Wave, you are full of it.
From your belief that Andy Pettitte was going to be a sought after FA (he wasn’t), to believing the Derek Lowe signing would give Andy leverage (it didn’t) to your statements that ballplayers should “expect” this stuff to come out because of the job they hold and the money they make.
That’s what you have written today. Hasn’t your position today been that ballplayers, because of how much money they make, should “expect” to have less privacy?
You believe that because people want to know what goes on in a clubhouse ballplayers shouldn’t expect to have any privacy.
That’s what you have written today and its nonsense.
No ballplayer expects to have what goes on in the clubhouse to be put in anybody’s book. Whether its a Torre book, Boomer book, or anybody else’s book.
Its not a “diatribe” on my part. I just think its a nonsensical position to take when it comes to privacy and athletes.
But, hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree with it.
“Clemens isn’t going down if all the evidence the feds have is Brian McNamee’s 8 year old syringe where anything could have been added to it. A 1st year law student would run holes in this case.”
That’s hardly all the evidence they have. But it will turn out to be the icing on the cake. It’s what they’ve been waiting for.
Nick –
1) In Torre’s own words -
“I’d like to think that my reputation is, being honest”
2) When questioned why he wrote the book – he says “it wasn’t about money”
If you agree with point 1 – point 2 MUST be true.
(I don’t agree with either point)
Wave,
You’re wrong here man. No way should players have to deal with these privacy issues because they make a lot of money. Comparing them to elected officials is also a faulty argument. Oh, and this quote:
“Ballplayers play in the public eye. They know, for better or for worse, that people want to know what goes on in the clubhouse. They know books are written, and articles written, which reveal potentially embarrassing personal stories.”
So they know that it’s going to happen but don’t expect it to happen?? Come on man.
Does he now know what SWF means?
“Clemens isn’t going down if all the evidence the feds have is Brian McNamee’s 8 year old syringe where anything could have been added to it. A 1st year law student would run holes in this case.”
Hmmm. I’m SURE that MacNamee managed to sneak into Clemens bedroom and extract some of his DNA so that it would mix with the blood and steroids left in the syringe. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Re: SWF
SWF = Single White Female. A movie about obsession.
Swiss Wrestling Federation?
Al,
#3 gets blown out of the water by the Union.
Arod can’t defer his salary to bring a player to the team.
Its not the NBA. That’s not allowed under the rules of the CBA.
That’s a big reason why Arod didn’t get to Boston.
Andruw Jones was allowed to defer money to obtain his release from the Dodgers. That’s why the Union signed off on it.
If it was to add players, its not allowed under the CBA.
He doesn’t think his relationship with Alex has changed? I have my doubts about that Joe
wow – Francessa asking questions and getting heated
Torre shamelessly sells out his players, and is rewarded with a boatload of money and attention for doing it. Ain’t America great!
I’m not trying to spin anything for anyone. Of course it’s hypocritical to criticize Wells for something and then do the same thing a few years later.
I just pointed out Torre’s motivation for criticizing Wells at the time was not primarily based on principle; it was based on his role as Yankee manager.
Gotta turn it on!
Alex and Joe never liked eachother. Ergo, their relationship is unchanged.
Nick – I DIDN’T SAY YOU WERE SPINNING IT! JOE IS DOING THE SPINNING!
Torres full of it. He would have done the book even if he stayed on, just the final chapter would have chnaged???
I have to give Francesa credit. He’s not doing a softball interview and its taking Torre off script a bit.
anyone care to give a play by play on the Mike F interview????
DT: sorry, I thought you were referring to someone on here. Torre is full of gas but nobody takes “it’s not about the money” seriously, I hope.
I love Jorge and all, but someone tell him of course it isn’t a surprise to him, he was there. DUH.
Waveyourhat,
You talk a lot. Just stop. You have no credibility. Nobody listens to anything you write. Nobody respects your opinion. Please just stop.
can someone please summarize the francesca interview? the job thing of mine really gets in the way of my yankee obsession.
So Torre’s defense for any criticism is, “he probably hasn’t read the book”?
David Wells said he’d knock him out?????
Man I’d love to see that.
Torre is the biggest liar when he says he didn’t know about steroids. I’m sure he never read Giambi’s contract either.
*FRAUD!!!!!*
Torre fails to mention the real reason Cashman didn’t want Bernie back, he knew Torre would play him much more than the pinch hitting role Torre supposedly wanted him for.
Torre fails to mention the real reason Cashman didn’t want Bernie back, he knew Torre would play him much more than the pinch hitting role Torre supposedly wanted him for.
Re: Torre advised against Arod
Has Mike asked Joe why he advised the Dodgers against signing Arod last offseason?
Time to steal Manny from the Dodgers! Manny splitting time at DH with Matsui and playing RF occasionally, Swisher splitting time with Gardner in CF and playing RF. Nady traded, thats all that needs to be done.
He’s saying Gibson did what Roger did? Whatever it was? Is this breaking news?
Trisha: no worries, I was just making a simple point (that I hadn’t seen anyone else make on here) to suggest an explanation for the disconnect between Torre’s words and actions *in addition* to hyprocrisy.
oooo – Mike asking about Joe’s opinion re: baseball books…
Hmmm. I’m SURE that MacNamee managed to sneak into Clemens bedroom and extract some of his DNA so that it would mix with the blood and steroids left in the syringe. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
He had his blood, and he has HGH. No matter what actually happened, it is by no means a stretch to think that MacNamee could have mixed in HGH with those syringes which would have already had Clemens’ blood.
By the way, not really buying someone who deals drugs and holds onto needles for 8 years as a credible witness.
a reference book?
Gibson rubbed ben gay on his crotch too?
No, SJ44, you are rude and arrogant. You make personal attacks constantly, not just on me, but on all who disagree with you.
One at a time.
Where did I say “Hasn’t your position today been that ballplayers, because of how much money they make, should “expect” to have less privacy?”
I never said that. I said the celebrity culture in baseball has contributed to the amount of money players make, and that these sorts of stories come with the celebrity culture. I said players’ expectations of privacy should be lower because in the past people have written stories about their personal life and players’ are aware of that.
Players may or may not expect it, but they know this stuff comes out. That’s what an expectation of privacy is. Whether I think it is right or wrong has nothing to do with it.
You wanted to attack that position, and I irritate you, so you just made up a position for me to take.
Next, with respect to Andy:
I never said Andy would be a sought after free agent. I said he could have been, and maybe he was for all I knew. That’s different. You are the one who constantly claims to have inside information.
You said the Yanks would never give Andy more than $10MM unless there was another offer on the table. You said the Yankees would never give Andy an incentive contract. You were rude and arrogant toward posters when they thought the Yanks might give him one.
Well, you were wrong about the incentive contract.
You were also wrong about the Yanks’ never going to give Andy more than $10MM unless there was another offer on the table. Under very foreseeable circumstances, they in fact will.
The fact is, you did not want the Yanks to sign Andy and I did. That is where all this personal hostility I get from you is coming from.
“Torre shamelessly sells out his players, and is rewarded with a boatload of money and attention for doing it. Ain’t America great!”
It really is a sad commentary isn’t it. I remember that throngs of people would ask OJ Simpson for his autograph despite his being indicted for murder, including the judge in the trial.
Nick,
You sure are pissing off a lot of people today.
“Waveyourhat,
You talk a lot. Just stop. You have no credibility. Nobody listens to anything you write. Nobody respects your opinion. Please just stop.”
You don’t speak for everyone here. I happen to read Wave’s posts (and judging from their “discussions”, SJ44 does as well). I may not agree with all of them, but he’s not on my “must skip” list.
Ask Torre why he shot his mouth off to Verducci in the SI issue, about Rodriguez in 2006? Was that when writing this book really started?
I can just see the LA locker room now. Everyone is talking, Torre walks in, people start whistering to each other and then it gets real quiet. Who will ever trust him around them when they are talking ever again?
Ballplayers are public entertainers (like actors) and as such should expect less privacy in public.
That doesn’t change the fact that the clubhouse and private (family,health etc.) situations should always be off limits.
Backpedaling from the A-Rod stuff. I had to trust Verducci because he wrote that stuff not me but my name is on it even though I had no control over it.
Gibson rubbed ben gay on his crotch too?
———————————————–
No.
Torre rubbed it on for him.
Red Schoendienst wrote about it in “The Cardinal Years.” lol
What’s the record for number of people thrown under a bus in a week by one person?
Re: Waveyourhat
I enjoy your posts and find your tone respectful, even when there’s a disagreement or differing opinion on a given player or situation.
Trisha, Now he’s a fraud for protecting his players about peds and probably far more…Like Boggs wans a women in every city after the Margo Adams explosion…..It’s either one way or the other,,,man make up your mind…
Nooooooooo, m., we’re all just conversating.
“Read the Book!”
wow – francessa pointing out the inconsistencies
Ask Torre if Boggs really drank 70 or so beers on a cross country flight.
“Trisha: no worries, I was just making a simple point (that I hadn’t seen anyone else make on here) to suggest an explanation for the disconnect between Torre’s words and actions in addition to hyprocrisy.”
Gotcha
“By the way, not really buying someone who deals drugs and holds onto needles for 8 years as a credible witness.”
You gotta be kidding me! Someone who is dealing drugs to top-notch athletes and knows that it is possible that he may some day go down for selling drugs isn’t going to protect himself some way? Sounds like he had a beat on fat-ass Clemens from jump street. Figured the loser would try to sell him down the river – and he did!
In fact, if you remember him being questioned about why he held onto those things, that was exactly his answer. He knew that he might some day need to defend himself and it was obvious that HE IS SO FULL OF HIMSELF, AS WELL AS FULL OF CRAP, THAT HE ACTUALLY PUB HIS HAND ON A BIBLE IN CONGRESS AND LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH.
Good for McNamee for holding on to that stuff.
Do you know the saying “false in one false in all? He’s already sealed his own fate.
BYE BYE ROGER. HOPE YOU LIKE ORANGE.
“The fact is, you did not want the Yanks to sign Andy and I did. That is where all this personal hostility I get from you is coming from.”
Wave, I have to disagree with that first part. From what I read, it didn’t seem that SJ44 was against the Yankees signing Andy. In fact, I remember him writing that Andy was the best fit for us. I think that his issue was with how much Andy would and should make. I do agree that your problems with each other pretty much started with that whole discussion, but not for the reason you list.
Francessa is playing it straight up. This is no softball.
WYH,
Read your post. Thanks.
Of course we all respect for, have gratitude to, and have fond memories of Torre’s glory years.
But it doesn’t excuse some of the crap that he’s pulling. At all.
And any public person loses some privacy. When they’re in public.
But the lockerroom or clubhouse is a different story (unless a cell phone and bong are involved). Torre asked and probably continues to ask it of his players. How come he doesn’t reciprocate?
YOU GO MIKE!!!!
I hate Torre.
Oh wave, where do I begin….
You said constantly that Andy would make more than 10 million on the open market. I said that wasn’t the case. Turned out, he not only didn’t get 10 million, he got much less in guaranteed money.
I said REPEATEDLY I wanted him back AT THE RIGHT PRICE.
When it dragged out, I said that if it wasn’t settled soon, they need to move on.
How have I “made up” your position?
You say ballplayers, because of who they are, should expect less privacy. Those are your words, not mine.
One of your reasons is that fans want to know what goes on in the locker room. Again, your words not mine.
I responded as to how ridiculous that position is and gave various reasons why.
I explained to you that ballplayers don’t expect their manager’s to talk about clubhouse issues. You, as you always do when a position is taking contrary to your own, reject that notion.
If you are going to tell me, “I’m full of it”, then take different positions from the positions you have taken, then expect to be called on it.
The Yankees aren’t giving Andy more than 10 million. He has to earn a load of incentives to get more guaranteed money than what was on the table.
Only you believe that an incentive based contract is actually a better deal for Pettitte. You still can’t comprehend how the guy can sign for so little guaranteed money.
Again, if you want to take positions that are contrarian in nature, that’s fine by me.
Just don’t get yourself worked up when people call you on it.
Wow, Francessa pretty much owned Torre on the A-Rod pointing out the inconsistencies from what Torre said to what’s in the book.
wow – Joe admitting he wanted Pavano
m
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm
He’s saying Gibson did what Roger did? Whatever it was? Is this breaking news?
————————————————————
He was talking about Gibson’s nasty disposition on days that he pitched. That was never any secret. Just ask McCovey or anybody (McCarver). Gibson told McCarver on a trip to the mound, “Get the @&%# out of here. The only thing you know about pitching is that you can’t hit it.”
I live in LA, and trust me nobody gives a rat’s behind about any of this…It’s being overhyped by the NY media who are feeding the deprived sports fans something to reflect their true colors, and lack of what is and what is not baseball clubhouse loyality…….Yeah the Brown discription was a bit heavy, but it was a slight thanks for game 7 in 04 when he lied to Torre about being readty to take the ball……
So much anger today. To quote GNR “We don’t need no Civil War”
Trisha…
As a lawyer, an 8 year chain of evidence is barely evidence. And despite his reason, which is probably true, a lawyer will still make swiss cheese out of this argument.
I dont want it lost that i do think Clemens is guilty, however, it is what it is.
McNamee sold Clemens out in the Mitchell Report. Clemens would have said nothing had that not happened.
That joke of a report as it is would also be lucky to count as credible evidence as it focused on three teams, and left a lot out.
Ha, I’m gathering that Joe Torre didn’t make up his mind about the book until he read it.
“Trisha, Now he’s a fraud for protecting his players about peds and probably far more”
Oh PUH-LEASE!
He is a fraud and a liar and a schmoozer and a vindictive rat. And he threw Moose under the bus and he threw Mariano under the bus.
Do YOU know the saying false in one false in all?
I LOVE listening to Torre backpeddling so fast that he probably made it all the way to Westchester in 5 minutes.
GB7,
No. He used Gibson’s name in response to a question about Roger and the steroid allegation and the Piazza bat thing.
The New York media overhype a lot of things so they can sell papers. That’s why a lot of players can’t play in New York.
I live in LA, and trust me nobody gives a rat’s behind about any of this…It’s being overhyped by the NY media who are feeding the deprived sports fans something to reflect their true colors, and lack of what is and what is not baseball clubhouse loyality…….Yeah the Brown discription was a bit heavy, but it was a slight thanks for game 7 in 04 when he lied to Torre about being readty to take the ball……
No one in LA cares because the book is about the Yankees. write a book about Manny or Kent and let’s see how they react.
Also, i think Yankee fans actually care about their team and what happens to it.
“I live in LA, and trust me nobody gives a rat’s behind about any of this”
Well if that isn’t he alpha and the omega about the west coast, nothing is!
This sounds good, I’ll have to listen when I get home. ANd here I figured it would be a softball interview. I guess he wants the Yankees to give him inside info by slamming Torre from here till tomorrow.
BYE BYE ROGER. HOPE YOU LIKE ORANGE.
—————-
Well, he is a former Texas Longhorn. Maybe they’ll let him wear burnt orange.
Francessa: Hey, Joe, you just said something inconsistent with what is written in your book.
Torre: backpeddle backpeddle backpeddle
Francesa: Oh. OK.
Tough interview. Apparently, follow-up questions are so passé.
i sure did lost alot of respect with this he noes damm well he wasent jokin and everytime the topic afarud comes out he says it was larry bowa shut up joe and b a man and say it that u didnt like him dont change ur story
“McNamee sold Clemens out in the Mitchell Report. Clemens would have said nothing had that not happened.”
Tex! McNamee was facing federal charges friend if he didn’t come clean. Rather than selling Clemens out, I think of it more as telling the truth.
I really like the truth by the way.
“That joke of a report as it is would also be lucky to count as credible evidence as it focused on three teams, and left a lot out.”
With that I agree.
yankeefan23 Just stop. You have no credibility. Nobody listens to anything you write. Nobody respects your opinion. Please just stop.
that post looks a lot better now.
“Well, he is a former Texas Longhorn. Maybe they’ll let him wear burnt orange.”
Torre: I’M NOT THAT KIND OF PERSON!
Torre: I’M NOT A PERSON TO HOLD A GRUDGE. (Just ask Jeff Nelson)
Pat M,
All the respect to you, randy l, and real ballplayers. But you seem to think that what we’re saying about Torre reflects on you guys. It’s not it at all.
It’s the principle of the thing. Torre said one thing and did another. What if you were in that clubhouse and he told a deeply personal secret (depression, alcoholism, etc). Would you think it was not a big deal? Would your wife understand just because Torre’s one of the guys?
Has anybody on any interviews (I havn’t seen one) called Torre out on his Godfather description of Big Stein?
I thought, being his old boss and person who gave you a shot when an entire city called him crazy and made him millions on top of handing him a HOF ballot, Torre would show him a little more respect.
I think, if any one surprising excerpt is more telling than the others, it would have to be the Steinbrenner comparison to Don Corleone, except less coherent and capable of conversation. This shows Joe has completely dismissed all the good the Steinbrenner family has done for him all for money and to sell books.
While I DO NOT, ON ANY LEVEL, agree with what he disclosed about the players, it does make for interesting story and help in selling books. But, to bash your prior employer, after everything, because you didn’t get your way in a year when you didn’t do your job?
Whose the real fraud?
I like the truth too. I think the whole thing stinks, Clemens, MacNamee and Radomski should all just go away.
I feel that unless every player in MLB since 1995 is paraded in front of congress to swear under oath and put in a position to lie to congress, i dont want to hear about it.
McGwire refused to answer, Sosa claimed he didnt speak english, Palmeiro WAS PROVEN as a liar (is he in jail)?
I mean this is just to stupid, all of it and all of them that it would have been better to just let it go away and make baseball clean from now on.
And Tex – about the 8 year chain of evidence – it was the Congressional committee that asked for the reports on the DNA analysis of the syringes. I remember Waxman saying he was going to be very interested in seeing what they showed.
Torre sure has a lot of problems with stuff said
“behind the back” and “to the face” -
maybe Dodger players should have uniforms that say “Front” and “Back”
m
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:50 pm
GB7,
No. He used Gibson’s name in response to a question about Roger and the steroid allegation and the Piazza bat thing.
————————————————————
Yes, but hes only referring to the comparison between Gibson and Clemens on the mound. The comparisons between those two are not unlike those of Vic Raschi, Don Drysdale and Early Wynn. Three of the nastiest dispositions on pitching days as anybody. Wynn may have been the worst of the five, though. No way would anybody ever accuse Gibson of using steroids or drugs…….and live.
So someone lied about Torre’s daughter’s report card? What?
“I really like the truth by the way.”
YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!
I give Francesa credit. This was not a softball interview. He did a very good job with follow up questions.
Something that’s hard to do when a subject, in this case Torre, is in a group setting, as he was earlier in the day.
“No one in LA cares because the book is about the Yankees. write a book about Manny or Kent and let’s see how they react. ”
i spent 5 yrs in la and i can tell you that nobody in la would give a rat’s a$$ about any book joe torre or any other dodger wrote. you are way overestimating la’s attraction to baseball. people go to games but they dont follow baseball. half the people in the stands at any given dodger game have basically no idea where they are in the standings. thats why they dont stay till the end of games, they just dont really care, its something to do, not thier life.
Nick- WHat??
Tex, I think that what happened right after Canseco’s book was just a precursor to what they wanted to find out about the game of baseball. Canseco wrote a book and they questioned some of the people named in the book. That was far different in scope than a report being commissioned and chaired by “one of them” and then players named by drug dealers being questioned by a congressional committee.
I continue to say that if MLB wants to continue to have the anti-trust exemption, Congress can tell them to jump and the only correct response will be “how high?” Don’t forget that it was Selig who set up the committee, not Congress.
Can I listen to the Francessa interview somewhere in archives when I get home tonight? If so, where is it located?
And as for this being a chronicle of the last 12 years of Yankee history (or is it about the changes in the game?), he was quite selective of whose personal history he put in there.
I hope there are some “humanizing” stories about Jeter, Posada, and Mo. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be complete. Brown, Pavano?
Any guesses on how many times Tom Verducci says “Read the Book”? I say 3 times
rodg12-It should be up on the wfan.com website later
Thanks S.A.
It was funny how Mike had to remind Torre that in the book Afraud wasn’t written as a joke to “his face”. Then Torre had to figure out how to answer that question…Since the book said he was fake and it was done behind his back.
Torre has done a really pliss poor job of spinning the Afraud crap. I am so sick of hearing that particular lie. And him pulling Bowa into it and pretending it was something entirely different.
Tex also, Clemens lied to the big guns – the committee who asked questions of the Mitchell Report, not the committee who asked questions about Canseco’s book. Two very different animals, one complete with federal investigators, the other a document put out by a publishing company, written by a former player.
Clemens’ lies were so outrageous that Congress would have looked pretty lame if they didn’t attempt to indict him for perjury.
He’s an arrogant and very stupid man. I guess he was bigger than life for so long that he truly believed that his say so would take the day. I think he misremembered that in the country’s food chain, he was up there but not at the tippity top.
“It was funny how Mike had to remind Torre that in the book Afraud wasn’t written as a joke to “his face”. Then Torre had to figure out how to answer that question…Since the book said he was fake and it was done behind his back.”
That will be the gift that just keeps on giving!
M, I value your intelligent and rational opinions, more than most here …I just don’t see him going over the line to deserve all this……I just wonder what did happen that compelled him to single out the few that where mentioned…Wells, and Brown certainly cost the team in recent Octobers…..So I’d suspect there was some heated exchanges…Tricia, I do recall that Phil Jackson just wrote a rather blazing book just a few years ago..As for The Alpha / Omega slap,,,,you need to get out more often and see the world….
jennifer: I think Torre was trying to make an analogy between someone saying what was in his daughter’s report card before he could see for himself and people talking about what’s in his book before -buying- reading it.
It sort of makes sense if Tom Verducci was the teaching assistant.
Joe will be fine in LA. The USC Trojans are the #1 pro franchise in town, nobody else is close.
gibby was awesome!
The USC Trojans are the #1 pro franchise in town, nobody else is close.
Nick-
I hope this is one of your little “jokes”.
Clemens’ lies were so outrageous that Congress would have looked pretty lame if they didn’t attempt to indict him for perjury
————————————————————
Congress would look pretty lame? Since when haven’t they looked pretty lame on everything else?
I don’t care at all about this Joe Torre book hubbub.
But I AM wondering about ESPN’s report about the Yankees and Orlando Hudson.
Anyone know anything about that?
His biggest problem with the “A-Fraud” stuff is, he is telling everybody Bowa and Borzello were just doing it for fun. Which, they were busting chops in a fun way with him.
Problem is, that wasn’t in the book.
What’s in the book is that PLAYERS were saying it behind his back. Since that came out, Joe has backtracked from that statement.
Also that was such BS that Torre said he had no say in what Verducci wanted to write in the book. It is Torre’s book not their book. It wouldn’t be a book without Torre. He said that the Arod stuff and single white female was Verducci’s stuff not his.
Pat M,
Oh. I know. But in a week, it’ll be Torre who? We’ll be worrying about who’s going to win jobs in the bullpen.
m: I’m talking in the post-Shaq era only! The Lakers were tops back then for sure!
“So someone lied about Torre’s daughter’s report card? What?”
“YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!”
jake- I haven’t heard it. But the only thing I can figure is Orlando was on MLB hotstove last night and said the Yankees, Mets and one other team have contacted his agent. Maybe espn is taking that and running with it?
Does this Lisa have a life?!
Someone tap Mr. T on the shoulder and tell him Tom already said he had total say as to what was in the book and he approved it.
Did Lisa call Francesa now? (I’m listening to Kay and Verducci)
Jake- I think the Yankees want to get Hudson to play CF and to keep Cano on his heels.
SJ44, you have “called me” on nothing.
By the way, I don’t know why “calling people” seems so important to you. We are all just posting out opinions here and sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. That includes me. That includes you.
I notice you didn’t respond to my “calling you” on your mis-characterization of my position on the player privacy issue. Maybe because I was right so you conveniently let it go?
With respect to Andy, you constantly misrepresent my positions as well.
I said Andy would have gotten more than $10MM on the OPEN MARKET. I may have been right, I may have been wrong. We’ll never know, because it is obvious now Andy never put himself on the open market.
I said the Yanks lowballed Andy. I think the other pitcher contracts signed this year show they did. You say the Yanks didn’t lowball Andy, then crow about what a great deal the Yanks got. That’s my definition of lowballing, but reasonable minds can differ.
You said the Yanks would never pay Andy more than $10MM unless he had another offer. I said the Yanks would, in order to sign Andy, because they needed him.
I think any fair person would say we both were partly right on that, and both partly wrong. In my opinion I think I was more right than you, because under very reasonable circumstances the Yanks could pay Andy over $10MM. But I can see how another person could argue differently.
You keep saying I said Andy preferred his incentive deal to the flat $10MM. I never said that, another situation where you make up a position to attack me.
I said, since Andy, in 4 out of the last four years, would have made more than $10MM on this same incentive contract, he might well have preferred it to the flat $10MM. I don’t claim to have inside information on Andy, or know what he thinks, so I never would have said what Andy actually preferred.
The distinction between “preferred” and “might have preferred” is not too subtle, is it?
You want to ignore the distinction in order to get your ya-ya’s out. OK, fine.
Now I’ve had it with this ridiculous back and forth. It’s a complete waste of time. So feel free to “get the last whacks”. I like posting here, and your attacks get me down, so I’m just going to try to ignore you.
Nick,
I was talking about the Clippers!
And Shaq so wants to go home to Staples (with the Lakers, not the Clips)
People need to get off Torre’s back with the Clemen’s stuff. I am all for the Joe bashing, but you can’t expect the man to deny until he’s blue in the face in regards to steroids and Clemens. If Torre even hints at the idea that he knew something was going on with Clemens, he’ll spend more time in court than on a ballfield.
m, The first correct and only acuurate posting of the day…..
“Did Lisa call Francesa now? (I’m listening to Kay and Verducci)”
Yeah she called in to scream about Torre and how dare Moose say anything about Mo. Also that Torre never should of let the Mo comments get in the book. She obviously has Mike’s private phone number.
“Tricia, I do recall that Phil Jackson just wrote a rather blazing book just a few years ago”
The difference I see there is that Jackson had retired from basketball, even though he ended up going back. This horse’s ass is still in the game. Not only that, he said damaging things about players (and attributed things to players) who have to face each other every day. And I don’t know enough about Jackson (or basketball) to know the answers to these things but I am guessing that Jackson was not forced out of his job because he had stunk up the joint for 7 years in a row, nor did he have a vendetta against his former team. Also, we know that Torre was one of the biggest grudge holders this side of the Rockies – well when he was on this side of the Rockies.
“But I AM wondering about ESPN’s report about the Yankees and Orlando Hudson.”
Whatever it is, I am such a huge fan of Orlando Hudson. I had heard that the Dodgers were looking at him so it could be that ESPN is just trying to get some viewers back and they are spinning a story. Not sure.
Anyone know anything about that?
Wave-
Andy was a FA. Nothing was stopping any team from offering Andy a contract. They were aware of his preference, in both the Yankees and a high contract.
No team, aside from the Astros depending on who you believe, were even interested in Pettitte. If there was a team out there who were interested in Andy and willing to give him 12-14M, why wouldn’t they make themselves known? If for nothing else, drive up the price the Yanks will have to pay for sheer fun of it.
In the end, no team, aside from the Yanks, were willing to go close to 12M for Andy Pettitte. Thus, instead of leveraging another contract offer against the Yanks, he was stuck taking an incentive based deal that, if he gets injured, which is very possible, he may not live up to.
A lack of guarantee on $6M for a 38 year old pitcher is a big deal, especially for a guy who was looking for 14-16
“People need to get off Torre’s back with the Clemen’s stuff. I am all for the Joe bashing, but you can’t expect the man to deny until he’s blue in the face in regards to steroids and Clemens. If Torre even hints at the idea that he knew something was going on with Clemens, he’ll spend more time in court than on a ballfield.”
Joey, it’s only to point out the inconsistencies in his stories and to point out that he is a storyteller from way back. It shows him to be a liar. Now you (meaning people, not you personally) can’t choose to believe he is an honest and forthright man and then find excuses for his obvious storytelling about steroids.
Is all.
I have a problem blaming Mo for 2 reasons.
1. He’s not perfect and never proclaimed himself to be.
2. He lost the game, but not the series.
Trisha,
I know you know enough to not call Phil Jackson a horse’s ass.
His players would do anything for him, including accepting his coaching through the media.
I wouldn’t be opposed to signing the O-Dawg to play CF for us. I think he could make the transition. One of his best skills as a 2B is his proficiency and range on pop-ups.
Wave,
Again, what are you talking about? Andy was on the open market. His agents, as is their job, actively tried to get offers for him and came up empty.
To say, its “clear now” he didn’t put himself on the open market is 100% wrong.
He was a free agent. His agents tried to get him the best possible deal.
Why do you think they floated the 3/36 story? That’s what agents do. They do whatever it takes to try and get interest going in their players.
He came back to the Yankees because he wanted to play for one more year, had no better offers, and they worked out a deal that saved both sides, especially Andy, some embarrassment.
You really need to read what you write instead of taking potshots at me. Taking potshots has zero effect on me.
However, when you post something that I, or others, disagree with, expect some give and take on the subject. That’s not going to change.
“Whatever it is, I am such a huge fan of Orlando Hudson. I had heard that the Dodgers were looking at him so it could be that ESPN is just trying to get some viewers back and they are spinning a story. Not sure.
Anyone know anything about that?”
Trisha- From what I’ve been getting on various rumor sites is that the Yanks see Hudson as a super-utility guy like a Chone Figgins who they can play anywhere but the main idea is to have him play CF until Ajax or Gardner prove themselves.
jen, I REALLY like Hudson. I just don’t know what they’d do with him right now.
Wave and SJ,,,,Both postitions are of merit….You become a public figure you compromise your privacy….Look at the about of beat writers that cover the Yanks, the only secrets are the ones that you need to keep secret….That’s with the cooperation of the writers……It does come with the territory…But Jeter keeeps out of the back pages, so many cannot…Or the writers lack the same respect for those as they do Jeter……I mean did Torre go into details about A-Rod and his stripper in Toronto….This is a pimple on an Elephants …..
Is anyone else completely sick of Torre’s book yet?
hypothetical question:
if Phil Jackson is fired at the end of this NBA season and writes a book a year or two from now, while coaching elsewhere, would people in LA care? if so, would it amount to the attention Torre’s book is getting?
Al, you just answered my question!
I’d absolutely love to have the guy on the Yankees. He plays hard every minute of every game.
interesting chess match the dodgers have going here. they are making noise that they can get dunn and hudson for less than manny, chances are good that if they sign either one, manny’s not getting another offer. at the same time, the dodgers fans probably arent going to be impressed with those two and will still be unhappy if manny goes. and if he falls to the giants, they will have thier lunch taken from them.
dunn/hudson does not = manny
Tricia, Jackson was and still is the Head Coach of the LA Lakers……Yikes
thats wat i want hudson for to be a utility player like chone figgins but the free agent i want the most is manuelito
I would love to see them sign Hudson. High character guy, who can still play.
He can help this team win games. It will be interesting if he takes less money than he would get from the Nationals to come to NY.
He would not only be a productive player, he would be a very solid guy in the clubhouse.
What kind of contract would Lo-Hud (yea i just made that up, your thoughts?) demand?
I wouldn’t be completely against signing Hudson to play CF or be a super utility guy, but JMO, Cano is the 2B. He is going to be a star and has a higher ceiling IMO than LoHud.
If he can prove he can make a comfortable transition to CF, I can take him in the position until A-Jax comes up.
Saucy, The Jackson book would be a big deal..Then it gets turned into a screenplay and then it’s off to the studio for a movie….
“Is anyone else completely sick of Torre’s book yet?”
Sure.
And Pat M, if you don’t get the trust and loyalty part and that Torre gossiping like a little girl about things players said about each other – and describing one of his players crying and not wanting to pitch – is just plain wrong, then I truly feel sorry for you and wouldn’t want you anywhere near people I cared about. Of course you never will be because you’re a west coast guy! And you would never be one of the people I wanted in my lifeboat if it was sinking.
There was a time I actually would have had Torre as one of those people. Luckily, his vindictiveness was legend enough to I and most others started to see through the cracks well in time to recognize that the saint joe title was so mythical as to be almost hilarious.
Just my opinion of course.
“A lack of guarantee on $6M for a 38 year old pitcher is a big deal, especially for a guy who was looking for 14-16″
JoeyA,
Of course it is. I don’t disagree with that. But would you disagree that a person could reasonably prefer the incentive deal where, in 4 out of the last 4 years, the incentive deal would have worked out better?
And I don’t think Andy did really put himself on the open market, at least not in any serious way. Are you telling me that in a market where Garland got what he got, and Perez got what he got, Andy couldn’t get at least $10MM on a 1 year deal? I just don’t believe it.
When I see articles by real reporters saying Andy seriously shopped around, I’ll believe it, but I haven’t seen those articles yet.
“Al, you just answered my question!
I’d absolutely love to have the guy on the Yankees. He plays hard every minute of every game.”
I like the guy too. He plays hard has speed and hes a gamer. Also the main reason the Yankees took interest is because he badly wants to play in NY and the Mets arent interested.
“Tricia, Jackson was and still is the Head Coach of the LA Lakers……Yikes”
And?
saucY,
Of course not. The Yankees are polarizing and riveting. They have history that goes all the way back to Babe Freaking Ruth.
I’d love to see Phil manage the Yankees. He’s all about letting the guys learn. He refuses to call timeouts even if the other team is on a 12-0 run. He’d sit on the bench with his arms crossed, looking up into the stands. He’s wipe his glasses as Veras loaded the bases. He’d let the guys figure it out. haha. And his postgames would be a hoot. He’s actually a funny, smart guy. Right rodg12?
Ok ok SJ44, I’m sorry. You’re right.
“He can help this team win games. It will be interesting if he takes less money than he would get from the Nationals to come to NY.”
Rumor is that he badly wants to play in NY and on a winning team the Yanks are both those things he very well might take less money to be here.
When you become a public figure you give up your privacy – but you don’t figure that someone else who is a member of your club (so to speak) is going to give up your privacy for you! It’s one thing when the press goes through your garbage. It’s quite another when a manager who is still in the game gives your garbage to the press.
so what would ya offer to get hudson to be a chone figgons type player
Well, I guess I will head out into the blowing snows! Later y’all!
Where would Hudson play?
Is it wise to move someone to a new position, a la Alex Rodriguez?
Do they Yankees really want to spend more money?
Who would be bumped off the team if Hudson is signed?
What length of contract is Hudson looking for?
Phil on the Yanks bench would be priceless. You were spot on in your analysis m. I love his interviews. Especially when they interview him between quarters on the ESPN or TNT games (I think TNT does that too, can’t remember). You never know what he’s going to say and he often doesn’t even answer the question. He might set the modern day record for least pitching changes if he managed the Yanks. He’d just leave the guy out there and let him figure it out. Hold yoga/zen pre-game sessions with the guys. He could probably keep a book store in business with a baseball team and all the long road trips and books he’d give the guys to read.
Tricia, the gender comment is sexist and I was delevered a clear and stern lesson regarding such….As for being a West Coast guy, hey Toots, I grew up in NY, played ball right outside Yankee Stadium, as well as all thoughout Long Island and Westchester……A few months ago I offered some advise to you, pick for battles wisely and even be more selective as to who you choose to go toe to toe with……I’m not the one to get cute with…I’m tolerant and understanding…However I have little time for rubbish and the rantings of an adolesent….
“Where would Hudson play?
Is it wise to move someone to a new position, a la Alex Rodriguez?
Do they Yankees really want to spend more money?
Who would be bumped off the team if Hudson is signed?
What length of contract is Hudson looking for?”
He would be fine in CF he has the range and a decent arm. This would NOT be a huge contract. O-dog was originally looking for a 3 year deal but supposedly he would take 2 from the Yanks I’d say 2 years 16 mil might be the deal.
on a team with 5 OFs and a rehabbing catcher there is no utility role. all his at-bats basically would come from cano.
i was thinking would a ronny belliard be a good utility player
Stupid question, but is there any chance that we go start the season with 11 pitchers? I like the idea of having Aceves there to do spot starts for Joba without making roster moves, but it seems like we have more players than spots. It seems like we’re 3 deep at every position!
Anyone else peeved that we play 9 straight road games to start the season? And we end the season in Tampa Bay?
Wave-
I see your point and can agree to a degree. My response would be, he is a year older and, after pitching through an injury for a long period of time, I’m sure he would have much rather had a guaranteed contract.
So, to answer your question, If Andy is confident he can meet the requirements, I’m sure it wasn’t that big a catastrophe that he signed an incentive deal, given his history of meeting those marks. BUT, if after last season he had question marks regarding his ability to put in 200+, than he is not a happy camper.
In regards to the open market, I think you, as a Yankee fan, put too much faith and value in Pettitte. He was VERY valuable to us because
a. he has a history here
b. great track-record in the AL East
c. was a perfect fit for the type of pitcher we were looking for to fill out our rotation
BUT for many other teams weren’t looking for a high priced on year deal for a 38 year old lefty injured, but pitched through, parts of last season.
I’m not looking to further an arguement, but merely discuss, which teams could you have seen benefitting from signing Pettitte, while keeping in mind their ability to spend that kind of money.
Braves, Red Sox – fat chance
Astros – too much $$
Mets – didn’t make an offer, but he made a lot of sense for them
Dodgers – another fit, but have been enthralled by this Manny saga, they can’t afford to give Pettitte 10-12 M
Like I said, Pettitte being worth was he is to us, doesn’t mean he’s worth that to other teams. He has a storied history here.
The Torre book is becoming a movie
http://cuzoogle.com/2009/01/28.....g-a-movie/
Exactly where would Hudson play? He’s never played an out in the ML except at 2nd base and he ha 57 games in the minors at third base….10 years ago. He doesn’t have any power and he doesn’t have the speed to steal bases. He’s had two surgeries in the last two years to repair the same ligament in his left thumb and had a broken wrist last year. He’s not that great of a hitter and his defense certainly isn’t any better than Cano’s.
BTW, anyone notice that when you switch the vowels around a bit:
A STORIED history with the Yankees becomes a STEROID history with the Yankees.
(Eery music)
“i was thinking would a ronny belliard be a good utility player”
No.
“on a team with 5 OFs and a rehabbing catcher there is no utility role. all his at-bats basically would come from cano.”
5 OF’s? The only people I would trust at the moment playing the OF is Damon, Swisher and Nady. Gardner and Melky havent earned spots on this team, especially over a proven vet like Hudson.
GB- He is still a better player than Gardner/Melky combined.
… pouring gas on the fire : )
wave your hat-
for what it’s worth i enjoyed your observations about torre’s book in effect being a Rorschach inkblot test for people.
i’ve been asked from that smart ass nick in sf to explain if i’m so smart why i’m on the other side of the issue with sj44 about the book.
the simple answer is that sj has ownership and management experience in the game and i have literally low level ” in the dirt” experience in the game. neither ones’ knowledge trumps the other’s. it’s different in some ways ,but overlaps in others. it feels pretty equal to me.
the book’s tone trashes the six management and ownership guys in that room that cut him loose( george wasn’t really there).
sj likes cashman and hal.
i don’t like cashman nor do i respect hal as a baseball person so i, if anything ,like hearing torre go after them a bit.
sj44 doesn’t.
that’s the story right there of the difference of why sj44 and i disagree on this book.
sj-
ask yourself how many “real yankee” players care one bit about this stuff. i think the answer is zero. who gives a crap what brown,johnson, and wells think?
were any “real yankees” bashed? nope.
i think you have a better case of saying torre is unfair or ungrateful with yankee management and ownership. i wouldn’t agree, but i can see that they don’t like the book.
i just don’t think any “real yankees” are going to complain one bit about torre.
and if they aren’t , why should it bother you?
the one thing we agree on is that none of this is going to matter one bit when the season starts.
I have a hard time believing this Hudson rumor.
Why would the Yankees put a better defensive 2b in CF? Not to mention he’s never played CF. Juan Samuel anyone?
Unless Hudson was secretly Cano insurance against Cano repeating the nonsense from last season.
The good thing about the move would be that Cano would have a short leash and would have to perform to keep his spot with a better defensive option on the team.
That said, I don’t see the Yankees making the move. It just doesn’t make much sense.
thankz al just wanted to know he could play diffeent positions and he has pop in his bat
So basically the Yankees break camp with 4 OF (5 including Matsui.
That’s
Nady-Damon-Swisher
With one of Melky/Gardner on the 25 (probably Melky-bigger contract/out of options).
Damon and the infielders will probably spell Matsui at the DH spot.
Al from BK(SIGN MANNY! for 1 year only.)
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:45 pm
GB- He is still a better player than Gardner/Melky combined.
————————————————————
what part of “He’s not an outfielder” is dfficult for you to understand?
Two questions, randy:
1) Why didn’t you tell us you’d already read the book?
2) Do you deliberately distort thing other people say or are you just sloppy?
“Why would the Yankees put a better defensive 2b in CF? Not to mention he’s never played CF. ”
Yes he did, he played a total of 22 games in the OF during his time in the minors.
Johnny Damon on Michael Kay, now.
can sumone send me a link were i can listen to michael kay
I love these guys ripping Mike for being soft.
Jose’s right. He said how come Torre didn’t ask what SWF.
Now, Mike taking Torre at his word that there are things in the book that Joe didn’t know about. And there are things in the book Joe doesn’t understand.
Joe read the book 3-8 times and didn’t ask questions? A Yankee book for posterity?
http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....listenlive
“1) Why didn’t you tell us you’d already read the book?” -nick in sf
are you crazy, baseball players don’t read books.
“2) Do you deliberately distort thing other people say or are you just sloppy?”- nick in sf
catchers are sloppy. i mean it’s kind of a dirty job.
I don’t get the Hudson fascination. Super Sub – ok.
But for CF?
Does everyone think Melky is beyond repair?
Is he doing any better in Winter Ball?
His 2007 numbers are not THAT much worse than Hudsons 2008.
Randy I, I’m not sure if you were in the room earlier, but I did pose that very same question to SJ in respect to his baseball perspective as a FO guy…He said that has not come into play nor does in alter his take on this subject…..I do wonder how forthcoming he is regarding this…He’s an astute baseball person but he maybe looking at this from the owners’ box….
I’m sorry, Ed, buy 22 games 10 years ago in low A ball doesn’t make Hudson an outfielder.
thankz m for da link
gb7,
Damon is on or gone? I think I missed it. Anyone know what he said?
uncle ellsworth
he ffinish playin winter ball he did very good
Randy l-
Can we, as fans, get over this real Yankee earning your stripes garbage?
i mean, Giambi earned his stripes with his towering HR in monsoon-like weather. Was he a GREAT Yankee?
The more, we, as a fanbase, put emphasis on this “true Yankee” stuff, the more we limit ourselves to enjoying a player on our team.
A-Rod being the perfect example. Not a true Yankee yet, not one of the greats cause he hasn’t won. Well 2 MVP awards, never failing to hit under 35 HR’s and single handedly carrying us to the playoffs one year earns him beans?
Let’s stop needing to label guys as “true Yankee” just because we still have guys like Mo, Posada, and Jeter on the team. That’s what Torre did in the clubhouse, and his favorites game gained him much resentment from other players.
Like these guy have to embody some extra-ordinary quality in order to be considered true Yankees in the hearts of fans. It does nothing but cause people to label players because they havn’t lived up to some false sense of really being a “Yankee”.
Gb,
Yeah I know. I’m just pointing out that he did played in the OF.
pat m-
there’s no one on the blog i respect more than sj44. i may be wrong , but i think this is just one of those times when people see through the lens of their own experience.
i also think this is healthy discussion because it’s an important book if you’re a yankee fan.
i’m going to keep it short with you; we tend to get in trouble if we say too much. lol.
we should play golf sometime and see what kind of trouble we could get into.
Thanks
YF91
I still like his upside.
Understood, randy. I just don’t understand why you bother to say anything though.
i dont noe if im the only one who greedy to me it feels so long ago that we sign sabathia burnett and texeira i want the yanks to sign manny and a bullpen arm like cruz
Man, Nick in SF and Randy I, are like Lohud family to me…Tough to see the in house ( clubhouse ) conflict….By the way, where has CB been ??? I’d welecome his take on this……Can’t wait until the Spring Training reports begin, and move on from the Joe Torre proscution and trial….
m
Damon:
Thanks to the Steins and Cash, the team looks great. Now they need to head to spring training and perform.
Looking forward to playing with the new guys and thinks Swisher gives the club a different dimension.
Never heard the A-Fraud stuff and he wants Alex to hit a HR every at AB. About 600 of them.
Doesn’t know if the clubhouse was violated because he hasn’t heard what Joe said about it.
Said some around the team may have known why he took a break from ST but he came back ready to play but was just physically hurt.
“i mean, Giambi earned his stripes with his towering HR in monsoon-like weather. Was he a GREAT Yankee?”
no.
you’re saying we have two kinds of yankee fans it appears; ones like you who root for a team of players who wear the laundry.
ones like me that want to root for the core of “real yankees” that drives the other guys who wear the laundry.
we disagree on some things , but i can’t believe that you can’t see a real yankee. you seem to much of a real fan not to.
m
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:01 pm
gb7,
Damon is on or gone? I think I missed it. Anyone know what he said?
————————————————————
Mel, the call only lasted 5-6 minutes, but, he said tat he hadn’t real the book. He aswered the question about the “depression” issue and he said that what itamounted to was thazt the baby had just been born (2007) and that along with his legs aching that he went to Torre and asked for a couple of days off because he was feeling burned out and asked to go to the house. I believe this happened during ST. He said that there were other writers around and nobody else wrote a word about it.
He was aked about the “Afraud” thing and he said that in all of the time that he was there, he’s never heard a player or coach use that phrase. (Maybe they don’t say that when Damon and Pettitte are around). The only other thing that was brought up was Ramirez, who said he was a good team mate, but, he said nothing about bringing him to NYY.
So, Boone’s home run was less cool, or had less meaning, because he wasn’t a true Yankee?
Or did he instantly gain true Yankee status because of the home run?
“Understood, randy. I just don’t understand why you bother to say anything though.”
nick in sf-
just like i don’t understand why you’re still so mad over being picked last in your childhood pick up games.
pat m and i need two more players for some golf. if you play , then all we need is gb7 to come along. we’re all staying at sj44′s house in miami. what do you think?
boone?
not true yankee.
laundry wearer.
“ones like me that want to root for the core of “real yankees” that drives the other guys who wear the laundry.”
JoeyA i’m with Randy on this one.
The question for you Randy is- the core is aging, who is going to take the torch?… Joba maybe.
The Hell with you, Randy. I thought you respected me more than anybody on this blog..that we were best blog buddies. I feel like you just Torreed me.
The biggest problem with the “true Yankee” stuff randy is that if a “true Yankee” had gotten the job done at his normal level in ’04, we’d have a lot more guys we call “true Yankees” now.
Funny, randy, but that’s exactly how you’ve answered every substantive question throughout this Torre discussion: with an ad hominem snipe, a complete dodge, or an “aw, I’m too stupid to know what I’m saying” crack. I don’t believe it, but I’m not the only person reading all this crap.
gb7-
you’re not really insulted because i put you into the golf foursome are you? i figure nick might need a body guard if his sharp wit hits me wrong when i hit a ball ob or choke on a 3 foot putt.
how about you just come along to break up fist fights. you don’t actually have to play.
since we’re staying at sj’s house, he should play anyway. how’s that for a solution?
who cares about a stupid book??
baseball is back next week so all this book crap can go away.
i only care about the yankees winning.i don’t care who is on prozac,who is crying or who likes or dislikes each other.
torre could of really spilled the beans.i still like him,not as much but i don’t hate him.
the problem i have is that he did not have to make this book & in life you are respected a lot more when you keep you’re mouth shut.
no matter how you slice it,it was wrong to talk about someones depression & afraud & so on.
torre has to manage players & should of protected their privacy.for a manager to keep his players out of the spotlight & the pressure off of them so well when he managed the yankees,he most certainly failed miserably this time in achieving that same goal.
in life nobody likes when people talk negative about them or share personal information.joe was wrong & would of been respected more if he didn’t do such.
it is like if my boss at work starts telling people that i was depressed & thought about quitting,i would be rightfully mad because that is my story to tell or not to tell not somebody else’s.
joe took a hit with this book.there is no possible way he comes out better.
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