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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees trade for Brewers OF

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 04, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

But it’s not Mike Cameron.

This from the Yankees:

The New York Yankees today acquired outfielder/catcher Eric Fryer from the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for left-handed pitcher Chase Wright.

Fryer, 23, batted .335 (129-for-385) with 26 doubles, five triples, 10 home runs and 63 RBI in 104 games with Single-A West Virginia in 2008, seeing time at left field, catcher, first base and designated hitter. He led the South Atlantic League in batting average and on-base percentage (.407) and ranked third in slugging percentage (.506). Fryer was originally selected by the Brewers in the 10th round of the 2007 First-Year Player Draft out of Ohio State University. He will be assigned to Single-A Tampa.

Wright, 25, posted a 10-3 record with one save and a 2.85 ERA in 24 combined appearances (22 starts) with Double-A Trenton, the GCL Yankees and Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2008, ranking fifth in wins among Yankees minor leaguers. The left-hander’s lone Major League action came in 2007 with the Yankees, going 2-0 with a 7.20 ERA in three appearances (two starts). He was designated for assignment on January 27, when LHP Andy Pettitte was re-signed and added to the 40-man roster.

—-

You might remember Wright from giving up four homers at Fenway Park a few years back. He’s a good kid though – hopefully he’ll do well.

Comments

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434 Responses to “Yankees trade for Brewers OF”

  1. Rishi February 4th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    misleading headline!! :)

  2. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Horrible. Why give up on Chase Wright? Does he have less potential then say Kei Igawa?

  3. Bill from NJ February 4th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    Horrible?

    Chase Wrights’ fate was acknowledged in Fenway last season. He’s just not good.

  4. Chris Barrows February 4th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Chase Wright has more potential than people give him credit. Too many memories of the four home runs in a row against the Sox.

    Still, Wright should perform better in the National League. Time will tell.

  5. Chris February 4th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Believe it or not, we need future outfielders more than we need future pitchers.

    Good move for a guy who didn’t have a spot on our team for a bit.

  6. Largo February 4th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    “Horrible. Why give up on Chase Wright? Does he have less potential then say Kei Igawa?”

    A false issue. Someone had to be removed off the 40 man for Pettitte. Wright was on the 40 man – Igawa was not.

  7. Robert February 4th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    Once he was DFA’d, the Yankees were lucky to get something? He has been surpassed by other lefty’s in the minors, Coke, Dunn, De La Rosa

  8. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    I wish Chase Wright the best of luck. He sure didn’t have it that day against Boston, but I felt he acquitted himself well with his good attitude.

    And the Yankees do need position players to develop, don’t they?

  9. Sal Cipriano February 4th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    I think Wright can be a good MLB pitcher, but I’m glad to get another position prospect in the system. Good little trade!

  10. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    No one wants Igawa and his salary. Chase is much more appealing to teams due to his price tag.

    Does anyone know how Fryers defense is and what his strength are i.e. arm strength,speed,taking good routes,good eye at the plate etc.

  11. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Here are his minors stats:

    http://minors.baseball-referen.....?pid=33540

  12. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Bill from NJ
    February 4th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
    Horrible?

    Chase Wrights’ fate was acknowledged in Fenway last season. He’s just not good.

    ————————————————————

    You’re aware that Wright had a no hitter going through the first 3 innings, correct? Put that game on Torre. Fenway is no place to start soft tossing left handed rookies. Also, remember that he was jumped from single A Tampa, pitched one game in AA and made 2 starts for NYY before Fenway. He has the same sort of pitches as Jarrod Washburn, with control. He’s going to do well.

  13. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    SPOILER ALERT ON THE BOOK
    SPOILER ALERT ON THE BOOK

    Regarding throwing Pavano to the wolves – remember that excerpt – well, Torre TOLD Pavano what he was doing. Pavano was prepared. And he did it to clear the air so that the following season they could start fresh. Not so damning as the excerpt makes it sound, is it?

  14. William Buckner February 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Good for him. Maybe Brews can give him another shot.

  15. tubbynj February 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    DUDE! I just yelled out “YEAH!!!!!” in the middle of a quiet office, followed by “oh, never mind guys…go back to work”

  16. bru February 4th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    MEN AMONG BOYS

    Eric Fryer, c, Brewers. The Brewers drafted Fryer, 22, as a catcher out of Ohio State in the 10th round of last year’s draft, but he initially spent most of his time this year patrolling left field after being assigned to low Class A West Virginia in early May. He was moved back behind the plate in mid-July, but his bat has been sizzling all year. His .344/.414/.527 line has him leading the South Atlantic League in average and on-base percentage and puts him third in slugging. He put together a streak of six consecutive two-hit games from August 13-18, and hit .360/.500/.640 (9-for-25) this week.

  17. G. Love February 4th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Good for Chase.

    I remember the spring before he got called up he looked really good on the mound and I thought just from watching him pitch he was MLB material. Torre, in particular, was impressed with his stuff that spring.

    The Brewers should offer him a legit chance to pitch in the bigs.

  18. pat February 4th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Seeing LF,C,1B,DH made me think he would have little speed but Fryer had 15 SB 3 CS.

  19. randy l February 4th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    from past post:February 4th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
    pat m-
    tony cloninger has 6 world series rings. 4 from the yankees and 2 from the red sox.
    he is exactly the kind of coach that we have been talking about being absent from the organization.

    (pat, see past post for personal anecdote)

  20. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    17 errors in 72 games behind the plate? Maybe he was meant to patrol the outfield. Besides, we have 2 studs behind the plate in the minors already.

  21. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    pat
    February 4th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
    Seeing LF,C,1B,DH made me think he would have little speed but Fryer had 15 SB 3 CS.

    ————————————————————

    He’ll be fine in the outfield, I’d think, and he’ll give his team the advantage of having an emergency 3rd catcher. Other than his outfield games, hisdefense looks pretty shabby. A .970 FPCT for catcher is as ugly as it gets. Looks like a solid bat, and the fact he doesn’t need to be added to the 40 man roster for another 3 or three years helps.

  22. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    “Seeing LF,C,1B,DH made me think he would have little speed but Fryer had 15 SB 3 CS”

    Definitely doesn’t appear that catching is in his future. 17 errors and 9 passed balls in 72 games at the catcher position and he’s thrown out less than 20% of would be basestealers.

  23. 9 February 4th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

    I know it was only single-A, but this kid posted some really, really solid numbers across the board.

  24. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    randy

    The players you refer to that you want in coaching positions do have good backgrounds in baseball. That being said do you think that some of them maybe need to be flexible to be willing to change as the game changes? You and I are close in age so I know how hard it is to accept new ideas sometimes.

  25. Pel February 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    >Regarding throwing Pavano to the wolves – remember that excerpt – well, Torre
    >TOLD Pavano what he was doing. Pavano was prepared. And he did it to clear
    >the air so that the following season they could start fresh. Not so damning as
    >the excerpt makes it sound, is it?

    It totally worked. lol

  26. jes February 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    will he be added to the 40 man roster?

  27. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    Chase was a decent pitcher and a lefty so it stings a little bit but I can’t see a spot in the rotation for him with all of the other arms the Yankees have on the farm. Solid deal if Fryer can even hit close to the numbers from last year at Tampa and Trenton. Question is, does he have a list of books he wants to read before he dies? Because that was the real allure of Chase Wright, ask Kim Jones she must have asked him about it 3 times that first week he was up.

  28. bigjf February 4th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Bad trade. I wish Chase well, he could be really good in any other system. But we could have gotten way better value back than this. Wright + Gardner/Cabrera should have been plenty enough to land Cameron. Instead we get a 23 year old in A ball? What?!!!!!!

  29. Fran February 4th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Doreen, thanks for the book recaps. Kind of reminds me of my college days and reading the Cliffs Notes instead of the having to read the whole book!

  30. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    JES- Why should he be? He isn’t going to play in the majors this year. Why waste a spot?

  31. sherlockbones February 4th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    “Pete, I just your piece..Thank you for the clearity and perception…Several of us here agree that Torre never breached any clunhouse traditions…Maybe the witch hunt on Joe Torre will lose some steam and the rantings will cease…..It’s been a tough week here at LoHud….”

    Someone might want to tell Pat M. to put the bong down, stop the crying, and take a train to realityville.

    1. The article was written by Sam Borden not Pete.

    2. Pete is disgusted with Torre.

    3. If only several of you think that Torre didn’t breach and the rest seem to think otherwise maybe you’re the ones who have it wrong.

  32. Phil February 4th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    jes,

    no. He’s only gotten through low a, no reason to add him to the 40. He has nice numbers but he was OLD for the Sally League.

  33. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    OH and not sure if anybody else noticed but the MLB app for the Iphone is going to have gameday audio now. That’s the best news i’ve gotten all week so I thought I’d share it with those who care.

  34. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    I didn’t expect a trade of Igawa, just that he needs to be cut as he has no use. I did not realize Igawa was off the 40 man roster. Still, I think they could have gotten more than an A+ level guy for him. Wright may be in the majors with the Brewers this year and he is a lefty – always a plus. The 4 HR in a row thing is overblown, the kid has talent.

  35. Bronx Jeers February 4th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Here’s a pic of Fryer in action.

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com.....d9.jpg?v=0

    Let us hope that wasn’t a passed ball!

  36. noseeum February 4th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Wright’s already 25 years old. It took him 5 years to get above A ball.

    He doesn’t have that high of a ceiling at this point, and the Yankees have a logjam of arms in the minors. This deal makes perfect sense, even if this new kid never sniffs the majors.

    I hope Wright does well, but he was expendable. Good move.

  37. jes February 4th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    i just wasn’t sure, i thought that since wright was on the 40 man roster, he would replace his spot. but thanks for the clarification.

  38. m February 4th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Doreen,

    Just catching up. Thanks for the info on Damon. Good to know that he wasn’t battling depression.

    Glad that you’re enjoying the book and it’s not as insidious as previously thought. You’re not quite through the “dark years” though, are you?

    That Quantrill quote? I thought he was saying Torre’s the #1 guy like how Posada was saying it. But did Quantrill really mean that Torre got top billing on the book and is responsible for everything in it?

    Programming note: Torre interview with Hannah Storm, Part I @ 3:50 pm on espnews. Part II @ 5:20 pm.

  39. noseeum February 4th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Correction. Wright turns 26 on Sunday. Even better!

  40. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Does anybody know what time Torre is going to be on Russo’s show today?

  41. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    “That Quantrill quote? I thought he was saying Torre’s the #1 guy like how Posada was saying it. But did Quantrill really mean that Torre got top billing on the book and is responsible for everything in it?”

    M:

    That was my take. Well, that and he feels Arod is a dickhead.

  42. Fran February 4th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Mike Mussina is going to be on with Mike Francesa at 2 PM today if anyone is interested.

  43. m February 4th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Steve B,

    I had to read the quote 3 times! So is this consequential evidence that Torre ruined his career? ;)

  44. rover February 4th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    lol, I feel each and everyone of those 17 errors and 9 passed balls. I started little league wanting to catch. Only thing was, evertime someone swung at a pitch i blinked and ended up chasing the ball. Rule one if the bat distracts you, you won’t catch.

  45. Betsy February 4th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    Doreen, I’m glad you’re enjoying the book, but I’m still extremely skeptical. Many media people have read the whole book and come to the conclusion that Joe has (a) broken the code, (b) tossed Cashman under the bus and (c) harshly criticized A-Rod.

    I don’t believe Torre at all when it comes to what went down in 2007 – I’m a Cash supporter and I still think that Joe became way too big for his britches. It’s just a matter of opinion, though.

  46. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    “Mike Mussina is going to be on with Mike Francesa at 2 PM today if anyone is interested.”

    He’s obviously going to be asked about his quote concerning Mo’s role in the loss of the ’04 ALCS. Should be interesting.

  47. gayle February 4th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    Forget Torre on Russo I am more interested in Hearing Moose on Mike I think at 2pm

  48. Betsy February 4th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    Francesca subscribes to Moose’s belief (and Joe’s, apparently) that Mo blew the entire 2001 and 2004 WS by himself. I can’t listen to him anymore – I doubt the interview will be anything more than Francesca interrupting Moose anyway.

  49. jake February 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    This is a small, but good, move on Cashman’s part.
    Wright does, indeed, have some potential, but he had absolutely no chance with the Yankees. As a LH with a fair-to-middlin’ fastball and some off-speed stuff, he might have a chance with the Brewers. Pitchers with Wright’s stuff have had success in the NL. Kirk Reuter, Noah Lowry–those are but two examples of guys who had “stuff” like Wright’s who found at least some degree of ML success.
    As for Fryer, I’ve never heard of him. But he’s obviously being groomed as a utility player who can do some catching, and he shows signs of ML potential with the bat. If he can make the Yankees in two years as a utility player, that’d be great.
    Good move all around.

  50. BD February 4th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

    Wright’s ceiling was probably as an adequate middle reliever. With Fryer, the Yankees at least have a chance he will blossom into something valuable.

  51. randy l February 4th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    “The players you refer to that you want in coaching positions do have good backgrounds in baseball. That being said do you think that some of them maybe need to be flexible to be willing to change as the game changes? ”

    maine yankee-

    that’s a good question and some old school coaches can be set in their ways. it’s of course good to add young coaches into the system with fresh ideas, tony cloninger himself was a young coach after his fifteen or so years in the majors at a high level.

    the problem with this idea that a coach like cloninger may not be with it enough to keep up with cashman’s new development ideas. the problem with that premise is that the red sox hired him as soon as the yankees fired ( cashman)fired him after 13 years with the yankees. he was their pitching coach until he got cancer and wasn’t strong enough to do the job. he has been a pitching coach and pitching consultant ever since.

    why would the yankees ever want to lose a guy like this?

    my answer is that while a very polite soft spoken country guy, tony cloninger doesn’t kiss butt ever. that’s very old school. tony was part of the tampa faction and thus a threat to cashman in cashman’s eyes. i think it was that simple.

    the new coaches cashman hires are almost all “lucky to be there” “yes sir” ,”no sir” kind of guys. i call them kiss asses. that might sound harsh, but that’s the way i see it.

    as far as learning new things. you and i aren’t dead yet. here we are on the blog right? do they still have only dial up in maine or has that new fangled broad band arrived ?
    you know i’m kidding. i wish i had a place on a lake up there.

  52. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    SJ44 -

    The tone of the book does indeed change after the 2004 season. I will leave it at that, but it’s clear that the feelings from the last 3 seasons were fresh in mind and definitely there is some resentment that comes through. Verducci is clearly a Torre fan, shall we say.

  53. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    I think that one of the real problems about this A-Frod comment is that he will be hearing it on the road all the time. I don’t think it was nessary to put that out there and add to his problems on the road. You know that he will really hear it in Boston. I don’t think that is something you should do to a former player. He had to know the effect it would have.

  54. Chris from NJ February 4th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    If Wright has control, he can be Jamie Moyer, who has no stuff at all. Glad to see Cash starting to stock up on position players, there will be a lot of open outfield positions next year, though I wouldn’t be oppossed to them offering Damon a 2 yr deal for less money if he wanted to stay.

  55. sherlockbones February 4th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    “Doreen, I’m glad you’re enjoying the book, but I’m still extremely skeptical. Many media people have read the whole book and come to the conclusion that Joe has (a) broken the code, (b) tossed Cashman under the bus and© harshly criticized A-Rod.

    I don’t believe Torre at all when it comes to what went down in 2007 – I’m a Cash supporter and I still think that Joe became way too big for his britches.”

    All of that and more.

  56. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    It’s nice to see that Ramiro Mendoza will get another shot at thmajors with Miwaukee. He is probably the most underrated player on those ’96-’02 teams.

  57. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    What is Cashman’s player development plan? Drafting talent and developing it are two vastly different things.

  58. Bryan V February 4th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Chase Wright would have been claimed by another team, once the 10 days were up. Trading him for ANYTHING, is better than getting rid of him for nothing.

    Fryer isn’t going to be the next Grady Sizemore. But it’s not a bad move at all to get a guy with some potential as an OFer.

  59. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    YankeeRay
    Maybe this move clears up some payroll space for you know who.
    :D

  60. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

    Doreen

    So he basically takes all the credit for the 4 WS and none of the blame for the last 7 years?

  61. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Betsey -

    I am now in the dark days (the abyss, it’s called in the book) and the tone is indeed different. I said earlier that I didn’t want to further spoil anything for those who still intend to read the book themselves.

    It’s harsher now. And some double-standards come into play. And Verducci really starts to sound like Torre’s cheerleader.

    I think the Yankees’ “failures” in the past several years have as much to do with the changing personnel, specifically the unsettled pitching staffs, as anything. And if Torre’s claim to fame is his ability to handle diverse personalities, this book appears to be saying that he could not get the new guys to either conform to the “Yankees way” or to commit to what his vision was for a winning team should be. But they won a lot of games, anyway. If they had better pitching they would have won championships.

  62. Paul February 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    Howdy everyone…This is just my February check in. We are still alive and well in snow country. Waiting for opening day…see you in March. Back to my hole….

  63. randy l February 4th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    “What is Cashman’s player development plan? Drafting talent and developing it are two vastly different things.”

    tom-

    good point they are different.
    i have no idea what the development plan is.

    in cashman’s defense , there are young players moving along the pipeline and joba is in the rotation.

    the fact gardner comes up to the yankees can’t bunt is not a good sign. that would never happen in the twins organization.

    i think the best developmental plan might be lending players to the twins and then get them back later being ready for the majors.

  64. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    randy

    It’s obvious you have a lot of respect for Tony and I respect that, but I have two comments in regard to that. Coaches change organizations all the time. The second is if he was part of the Tampa group that explains some of it to me. It isn’t nessarily a knock against Tony as much as the meddling Tampa group. There was some real problems because they did things without Cashman knowing what they were doing at times. I believe Tony Womack was one of those deals they did.

    I’m near Bryant Pond where they had the last hand crank phones. That made dial up look fast.

    If you were on the lake now you’d need to bundle up. lol

  65. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    The Yankees need to find a new Kansas City A’s.

  66. Jeremy February 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Vito,

    Thanks for being the obligatory commenter upset with this trade.

    The Yankees just picked up a 23-year old prospect who hit .335/.407/.506 in A ball in exchange for a pitcher who would only crack our rotation if the apocalypse struck. It was a good trade.

  67. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Anyone who gives up 4 consecutive bombs should have their pitching card taken from them. He wouldnt have made the big league team anyways with his soft tossing style. He certainly is meant to be in the n.l.. Didnt Chase have control problems as well or am i mixing him up with another lefty we had come up? No not Kei.
    At least we got a position player with a bat in return. Someone mentioned that he could be a utility player. Not a bad deal if it does happen.

  68. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    randy

    I think there are a lot of teams that could use the Twins as an example of how to develop players. There aren’t many that do it as well as they do. Maybe the Angels.

  69. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    S.o.S.
    February 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
    Anyone who gives up 4 consecutive bombs should have their pitching card taken from them. He wouldnt have made the big league team anyways with his soft tossing style. He certainly is meant to be in the n.l.. Didnt Chase have control problems as well or am i mixing him up with another lefty we had come up? No not Kei.
    At least we got a position player with a bat in return. Someone mentioned that he could be a utility player. Not a bad deal if it does happen.

    ————————————————————

    SoS, are you confusing Wright with Sean Henn?

  70. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

    Wright gave up the 4 Boston homers…Henn couldn’t find the plate with a laser range finder.

  71. MYGIRLS February 4th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Go Torre, soak evey penny out of the Yanks and tell all!!! It is a free country and your allowed to say what you want. Over the years, the Yanks have signed bums such as Pavano, Hughes, Brown, A Fraud, Giambi, Johnson….so you Go Mr Torre!!! How is Pavano Hughes doing?

  72. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Let’s give the Phillies scouting/player development people some credit. They’ve bought up great players from their syestem-Rollins, Utley, Howard, Meyers, Burrell, Hamels.

  73. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    mygirls- psst—- In case you haven’t realized it yet, but everyone is ignoring you, and don’t care what you think.

  74. Bryan V February 4th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Did somebody just compare Phil Hughes to Carl Pavano?

    Do they WANT to be laughed at?

  75. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    Bryan V, it’s a troll. It comes on here daily and says the same thing.

  76. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    GB,
    I know Henn was wild, but i could have swore that there was a starter from the minors that also couldnt find the plate and kept escaping innings with men on base from walks. Thought it was Chase.

  77. Bryan V February 4th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Thanks Tom. That’s what I expected, but had to say something.

  78. Bryan V February 4th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    “kept escaping innings with men on base from walks”

    Are you thinking of Dice-K?

  79. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    “I think that one of the real problems about this A-Frod comment is that he will be hearing it on the road all the time.”

    Pretty sure that horse has left the barn. I’ve heard the A-fraud moniker in the circles I run in for several years now.

    More importantly, Arod has demonstrated he can play around the whirlwind of crap that sometimes blows his way. I think he’s a little nutty, but he’s a true professional on the ballfield.

  80. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    http://sullybaseball.blogspot......grown.html

    All time Home grown Yankees VS All time ACQUIRED Yankees. Who wins?

  81. Jayare February 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Eric Fryer will be an future allstar. Great trade by Cashman

  82. pat February 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Ted on WFAN :smile:

    It’s only okay for people to say bad things about people you don’t like?

  83. Bryan V February 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    “Eric Fryer will be an future allstar.”

    I’m all for being optimistic. But let’s keep things in perspective right now.

  84. Wave Your Hat February 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Was DiMaggio home grown or acquired?

  85. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    Wave your Hat-
    I think because he played in the PCL he’s considered home grown…

  86. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Like the homegrown Yankees pitching staff over the acquired guys. Acquired guys lineup might be better though.

  87. Stateman February 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Let’s hope Fryer will benefit from some home cooking.

  88. Stateman February 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Let’s hope Fryer will benefit from some home cooking.

  89. Wave Your Hat February 4th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Tom-

    Yes but the PCL was independent at the time, so home-grown is kind of misleading.

  90. Uncle Ellsworth February 4th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Thank you John Sterling

    Thank you John Sterling

  91. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    Jeremy,
    .335 in A ball, hit .200 the year before in rookie
    color me unimpressed

  92. Russell NY February 4th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Chase was pretty good but had no spot with the Yankees. I think we got a pretty good, young, prospect in return. Another catcher to throw into the pot – great move all around by both teams.

  93. Michael Kei (Igawa) February 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    I don’t know if you guys know this but Chase Wright allowed 4 consecutive Homeruns to the Red Sox.

  94. Jeremy February 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Vito,

    Yeah, he’s nothing special. But the Yankees had DFA’d Wright and would have lost him to a waiver claim if they hadn’t traded him. Getting back a player with any potential whatsoever makes the trade worthwhile.

    It’s like when the Yankees managed to get a minor leaguer in return for Hawkins.

  95. gayle February 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Wow Moose didnt know what he was saying was for a book

  96. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    SoS, the only other recent lefty start may have been Sterling Hitchco*k. Or earlier, Alex Graman. The worst lately was “The Boston Strangler”, Matt DeSalvo.

  97. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Isn’t SoS a little young to be addled?

  98. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Tom -

    Your link had Scooter starting over Jeter on the homegrown Yanks. What a crock. But, I’ll just put Jeter in there and evaluate the teams……..

    I give the home grown team the nod based on their superior pitching and deeper line-up.

  99. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    although, DeSalvo was a right hander.

  100. Russell NY February 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    “Jeremy,
    .335 in A ball, hit .200 the year before in rookie
    color me unimpressed”

    Good idea, lets judge a guys first year in pro ball with 139 at-bats.

  101. E-Man February 4th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    “Chase Wrights’ fate was acknowledged in Fenway last season. He’s just not good.”

    The guy had less of a chance to succeed than the great Ian Kennedy.

    I guess the “never judge a pitcher based on his first 60 or so innings” only applies to when we talk about Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy.

  102. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Can somebody give a play-by-play of the Moose interview for those of us unable to listen to it??

  103. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    “Asked if he still believed Ramirez would have a contract by the start of spring training, Boras said, “I don’t really think about a timetable. Anything can be done any day. You just don’t know.”

    Then, seemingly calling out the Dodgers on their 48-hour deadline to accept or reject their $25 million, which he rejected within minutes, Boras added, “What I do know, you better watch out when you’re playing chicken.”

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns

  104. Russell NY February 4th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Go Torre, soak evey penny out of the Yanks and tell all!!! It is a free country and your allowed to say what you want. Over the years, the Yanks have signed bums such as Pavano, Hughes, Brown, A Fraud, Giambi, Johnson….so you Go Mr Torre!!! How is Pavano Hughes doing?

    Except Hughes wasn’t a free agent, and wasn’t offered 10 million. Now ur just being dumb.

  105. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    Hey, don’t shot the messenger.

  106. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    Hell if we got a bat boy in return it would have been a plus. Cash has done a heck of a job this off season. He seems to always get something back for nothing. Like in the Sheffield trade. He could have just let him walk but instead traded him.

  107. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Tarheelyank,

    Manny’s not rushing to spring training. He hates spring training. If the Dodgers want someone by spring training they should look elsewhere. But I doubt they will. For all their bluster of looking elsewhere, they must’ve pushed redial by mistake.

  108. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Moose is a great interview. He is a straight shooter, tells it like it is.

  109. PAT M. February 4th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    Chase Wright I think will be a servicable # 5 guy if he can maintain some consistancy…..Getting out of NY is his ticket to ride…..On paper Fryer looks nice..

  110. Ham Fighters February 4th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    tarheel, great boras quote! really makes you think he’s got the giants on the hook.

  111. bru February 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    http://www.wfan.com/

    click listen

  112. Boston Dave February 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    “I guess the “never judge a pitcher based on his first 60 or so innings” only applies to when we talk about Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy.”

    In Wright’s case he’s likely being judged on 4 at bats. Still, the Yankees have so many pitching prospects these days it won’t hurt to move some of them for position prospects.

  113. gayle February 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Moose really is a breath of fresh air listening to him give an interview.

  114. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    I haven’t listened to it. But in case you haven’t got enough of Torre’s side of the story, he was on Dan Patrick this morning. Here’s the recap and the audio:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  115. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    “although, DeSalvo was a right hander.”

    GB,
    My bad, you are right yet again. It was Desalvo who i was thinking of. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

  116. Ham Fighters February 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    not a huge moose fan but he’s giving an excellent, thoughtful interview and he’s not dodging anything.

  117. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Tom -
    Didn’t mean an ill will toward you. Was just pointing out that it had Scooter instead of Jeter. Sorry if it seemed that way.

  118. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Russell,
    Yes I agree it’s harsh to judge his .209 in 100+ rookie level AB’s but can we also agree then that if he hit .335 in just 385 at bats in A ball that doesn’t mean he is a lock to be a stud player for the big team in 2 or 3 years? He is 22 and in A ball and slated for A again in 2009. I’d rather have Chase in the pen or on standby in AAA, especially if Coke is a starter now and Marte is the only other AAA/ML lefty we have on the 40 man roster.

  119. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Can’t listen. It’s blocked at work.

  120. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Darnit missed it. So did he think it was off the record? That is kinda sleazy if that is the case.

  121. Wave Your Hat February 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    I don’t see anything wrong with moving some minor league pitching for minor league hitting. Given the imbalance we have right now in the minors, seems like the right move as a general matter.

  122. Rishi February 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    I agree – Moose is giving a thoughtful interview

  123. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Jeez, thanks for posting the link.

    I wrote the acquired/home grown back in November.

    Yeah, I got a lot of flack for starting Scooter instead of Jeter.
    (Met fans got on me for starting Piazza over Gary Carter.)

    It was a tough call but I made it for these reasons:

    1) Even though I am a Boston fan, I revere Phil Rizzuto. I used to watch all of his games on PIX and loved the book “Oh Holy Cow.”

    2) He was a great Hall of Fame player and a World Series hero. It’s not like I picked Bobby Meachem.

    3) I heaped tons of praise on Jeter and I know he will some day be one of the legends that get 10 minute long standing ovations at the new Stadium… but Scooter was part of the Yankees from the mid 1940s to the mid 1990s… I decided to give that some love.

    It’s all subjective. I had my fellow Red Sox fans dog pile on me for starting Johnny Pesky over Nomar… I had Angels fans say I was nuts for starting Adam Kennedy over Jim Fregosi… Heck I had Astros fans fans get on me for not starting Biggio as a catcher and putting Joe Morgan at second

    (Who knew Astros fans were so angry?)

    Either way, it’s a subjective list and my little off season activity.
    Thanks for reading it.

    (And no, I didn’t leave Clemens off because of ‘roids. Clemens is on my Red Sox, Blue Jays and Astros teams…

    I felt Eddie Lopat and Allie Reynolds needed to be on

    I felt Catfish Hunter was important because it changed the culture forever for the Yankees

    I felt Herb Pennock was important for the first ever Yankee dynasty

    so it came down to David Cone, David Wells, Mike Mussina, Tommy John, Jimmy Key or Roger Clemens.

    I decided to go with David Cone.
    What can I say? There was a lot of great talent to choose from

  124. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Manny didnt even show up to spring training when he still had years on his contract. It was more important to sell his things online than do running drills.

    mel,
    I would respond to the addled comment but im too young to understand what it means. Looked it up and dont understand the words that explains the definition. Ill just assume you were giving me a compliment.

    No Bynum for months. Do they still take the west?

  125. YankeeRay February 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    In hindsight Moose and his experience would have been the better start in game 4.
    Weak on Torres part to go to Cash for advice on who to start.

  126. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Okay, gossip time. I clicked to read about Kobe leaving a $2000 tip and ordering the staff to keep women away from the table. But I got even more than I bargained for! Combs & gun searches (Kobe didn’t mind), Sox owner robbing the cradle, and A-rod jealous of Madge!

    http://msn.foxsports.com/rumors/notes#1

  127. gayle February 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Jenn it is still on.

    it is not like anything he said was off the record but he said that these are quotes that were given to Veruducci over the series of year,perhaps even on background or for something else. He did not know that any quotes were going to be used for this specific book

  128. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    “So did he think it was off the record? That is kinda sleazy if that is the case.”

    He said that??? So much for testicular fortitude.

  129. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    No Bynum in the playoffs means the west goes to San Antonio

    They win it every other year anyway

  130. Fran February 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Jennifer, At the beginning of the interview,Moose said that Verducci was around the clubhouse a lot and that he did not know Tom was writing a book.

  131. bru February 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    moose saying that the yankees brought in a ton of guys that performed well like cone,wells,oneill,brosus,etc…. & a lot of them became yankees.

    basically saying imo that you can bring in guys & win & most of the players worked out well & not all of them will or did.

    moose said that he doesn’t know if torre crossed the line because he didn’t read the book.

    doesn’t know why brown,weaver,pavano,vasquez didn’t work out & he thought those moves were good when they were made.

    cleveland series,mussina wanted the ball for game 4 & torre was unsure between moose & wang so he asked cashman & cash wanted wang.

    mussina said if torre wen’t with mussina & he got bombed,torre would of gotten killed but moose said he felt great & ready to go.

  132. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    M
    good point about Manny and ST. he never wants to go

    Ham
    I wonder if the Chicken quote is directed at one John Henry. If so I am LMAO.

  133. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    “No Bynum in the playoffs means the west goes to San Antonio

    They win it every other year anyway”

    Thats what i like to here. GO SPURS!!

    I just noticed that i keep calling you mel. Can your old friends refer to you by your former name or do we have to follow suit?

  134. Yankeefan23 February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    Let’s talk about the Mets for a second. They’re tied to the Madoff scandal and Citigroup. So I think Citifield should be renamed as the “scam-artists’ field of choke-artists”

  135. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    SoS,

    What Sully said.

    Anyhoo. I don’t make prognosications or trash talk. But I will say that I prefer the team with Bynum, but I’ll take the team with Gasol at center anyday. I’m hoping that it’s closer to 8 weeks than 12. May the best team win. ;)

  136. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    The Yankees didn’t lose the 2004 because Mussina didn’t start game 4.
    They had a lead with Rivera on the mound facing the bottom of the Red Sox order in the 9th inning.

    How could that scenario had been better if Mussina was pitching?

    They lost because
    1) The Red Sox bullpen literally pitched their arms off keeping the Yankees off the board. (The playoffs basically ended the careers of Keith Foulke)

    2) The sluggers kept trying to swing from their heels and have their “YES Memorable Moment” instead of get the base hit the way the 96-01 teams would.

    3) Tom Gordon was dreadful.

    4) They couldn’t deliver a big hit in the Bronx

    5) Their best options in game 7 were Kevin Brown and Javy Vasquez. (But remember the Red Sox started Derek Lowe who pitched so badly down the stretch they took him out of the rotation.)

    If they started El Duque or Mussina the idea was “Get it to the 8th or 9th with the lead and hand it off to Gordon and Rivera.”

    That happened in both game 4 and 5. Not exactly sure how the starting pitcher selection would have changed that scenario.

  137. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    fran- thanks

  138. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    *prognostications

    If you looked up the other one, you wouldn’t find it!

  139. Christina February 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    mike is being pretty careful about what he is saying in this interview; more specifically when talking about Arod. “Was he selfish in the clubhouse”? Like Mike is going to say, well mike yes he actually was very selfish..

  140. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    S.o.S.
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
    “although, DeSalvo was a right hander.”

    GB,
    My bad, you are right yet again. It was Desalvo who i was thinking of. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

    ————————————————————

    Not a problem, So. It’s easy to get them mixed up…so many of these kids came through the door and left by the side door on a daily basis. And 95% of them flopped…BADLY. They all had different names…just the same faces.

  141. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    SoS,

    potato-potatoe I don’t care

  142. Yankeefan23 February 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Another topic worth discussing. I just heard Bill Simmons’ podcast where JackO said that CC Sabbathia was a poor man’s Johann Santana. Does anybody agree with that. Who has better stuff? How can we rank the Yankees pitchers in terms of pure stuff.

  143. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    “The Yankees didn’t lose the 2004 because Mussina didn’t start game 4.”

    Sounds like they were talking about Game 4 in the ’07 ALDS.

  144. Ham Fighters February 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    wait, before anybody takes this too far lets get something straight. moose was not talking off the record to tom verducci and then found out it was going to be used. his inference was that verducci was always around and he talked to him alot and he wasnt aware that anything in particlar was going into his book.

    he wasnt saying that verducci printed ‘off the record’ stuff

  145. Mikey February 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    This trade is exactly what I have been always saying: Brian Cashman is a great GM. People keep saying that he just overpays players by millions but thats not what hes all about. This is an impact move and I cant wait for this season to start!

  146. Rishi February 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    that Mike Mussina is very well-spoken

  147. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Sully
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
    The Yankees didn’t lose the 2004 because Mussina didn’t start game 4.
    They had a lead with Rivera on the mound facing the bottom of the Red Sox order in the 9th inning.

    How could that scenario had been better if Mussina was pitching?

    ————————————————————

    Calm down Chauncey. Mussina was talking about Game 4 of the 2007 series against Cleveland.

  148. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    I’ve heard Mike talk about Alex in front of his fan club. He said they’ve gone out to dinner. I think he is being honest about Alex. Actually a really honest answer would be yeah he is selfish, he wants to win everyday, if that is selfish he is.

  149. Hugo Simone February 4th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Hey guys, remember Hideki Irabu? LOL!

  150. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Re: the trade.

    I’m sure the Yankees did their due diligence and looked at more than the stats. They’ve talked to scouts, managers, etc.

    Good job by Cash turning surplus pitching into any kind of position player/bat.

  151. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    the biggest difference between the players the yankees brought in during the 1990s and the players they are bringing in now is the expectations.

    When Cone, Wetteland, O’Neill and Jimmy Key came over, the Yankees hadn’t been in the post season since Reggie, Nettles, Guidry, Goose and Bobby Murcer were still wearing pinstripes in a non Old Timers Day situation.

    When Tino and Girardi came over, the Yankees still hadn’t won a pennant since 1981.

    We forget that the 1996 World Series was a total shock.
    The Indians were the best team in the AL that year and if a ball bounced differently here and there, the Rangers would have won the Division Series against the Yankees.

    And after falling 0-2 and losing 6-0 in game 4, the World Series looked like one of those mismatched Super Bowls from the 1980s.

    So when they won it it defied all expectations. And also remember that the idea of repeating as champs was super rare. The Blue Jays were the only ones to do it between 1979 and 1998.

    So Brosius and Wells and Knoblauch all came in when the expectations were NOT win the World Series or else.

    Now that IS the expectations. Those other guys could come in with pressure but it wasn’t what it is now.

    The Yankees were expected to do well and win, but they didn’t have the “Win or you have failed” aura that A-Rod, Randy Johnson, Giambi et al had to contend with.

    Just my two cents

  152. Mikey February 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    OH come off it Hugo. You know that the Yankees are the greatest force in the universe right now. Just wait for Nick Swisher to blow up this season.

  153. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    The worst lately was “The Boston Strangler”, Matt DeSalvo.


    :lol:

    i really wanted him to succeed, even more than the others that had on the job try-outs that year, just for that nickname alone…

  154. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    WHOOPS!

    My bad!

    Sorry folks.
    Thought you were talking about the ’04 ALCS

    OK, I’ll shut up now

  155. Yankeefan23 February 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Guys, stop living in the past. Who cares about 2004, it’s over and done with let’s get on with life. Now who’s better…CC or Johann?

  156. gayle February 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    of course the obligitory Joba question and it starts again with Moose starts the debate going again oye vey

  157. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Oh stop already Joba to the pen. Damn even Mussina is on the Joba to the pen bandwagon.

  158. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    moose is right about joba

  159. Hugo Simone February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    I wonder if Cashman and the Yankees sit around and discuss the moves you all make at your jobs. Probably not.

  160. EDUB February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    joba to the pen everytime without fail.

  161. YankeeRay February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Sully
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
    The Yankees didn’t lose the 2004 because Mussina didn’t start game 4.
    They had a lead with Rivera on the mound facing the bottom of the Red Sox order in the 9th inning.

    How could that scenario had been better if Mussina was pitching?

    —–

    2007 Indian series

  162. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Yankfan23:

    I think Santana is better than Sabathia, but not as much as calling Sabathia a “poor man’s Santana” suggests. It’s not a large gap.

    In terms of stuff. 1) Joba 2) Burnett 3) Sabathia 4) Wang 5) Pettitte

    In terms of getting the most from their stuff. 1) Sabathia 2) Wang 3) Pettitte 4) Burnett. Too soon to tell on Joba.

  163. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    ok all you know it alls.
    there’s one more in the “joba may be better in the pen” camp.

    but i suppose mussina doesn’t have any idea of what he’s talking about either…

  164. bru February 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    moose after game 5 against boston in 04 sensed the yankees were in trouble.

    moose said he had the 1st locker outside torre’s office & torre would always ask his opinion.had a great relationship with torre.

    moose said he didn’t see anything about steroids.

    moose on rivera,a lot of the yankees sucess was based on mo’s performance.if he closes the door the yankees win.

    the 04 series is a tough one to swollow.

    mosse on game 5 against the angels bugged him the most,2005.

    of course francessa ranting about joba going to the pen again.

    moose said they don’t wan’t him now with the players they signed,team looking good.

    moose said joba can be a great starter if he can keep his pitches down,needs to be more efficient.

    interview over.

  165. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    posada agrees with moose about joba

  166. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Both are correct. He could be a great starter and he’s already proven to be a great reliever.

    He wants to start, let him start. If his shoulder doesn’t hold up, make him a closer. Have Mo set up. He sux anyway. :P

  167. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I agree with Mussina. When they got Weaver and Vasquez I thought those were to moves that was going to help for some time.

  168. Mikey February 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Hugo you saw what Cashman did didnt you? He passed on getting Johan last year because he knew he could get CC this season. Obviously CC would want to play for the Yankees and nowhere else. Now he has a great pitcher who you know will stay healthy for the length of that contract. Why hate on him?

  169. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    joba struggles to pitch 6. throws too many pitches.

  170. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    saucY
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
    The worst lately was “The Boston Strangler”, Matt DeSalvo.
    —-

    i really wanted him to succeed, even more than the others that had on the job try-outs that year, just for that nickname alone…

    ————————————————————

    What great headlines that would have made with him shutting down Boston in a big game at Fenway, huh?

  171. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    “Sox owner robbing the cradle”

    beard?

  172. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Brad Pitt’s Brother– Good thing the only people whose opinions matter are keeping him in the rotation. They don’t know what they’re talking about though right…

  173. YankeeRay February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    EDUB
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
    joba to the pen everytime without fail.

    —–

    taste great/less filling

    He’s a firm believer as are many others in the game.
    It’s a great debate and will be until he either wins or loses as a starter. The nice thing is that if he fails as a starter he has a great fall back option and we have young arms to move into the 5 spot.
    We are in a great position on this.

  174. pat February 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Christina

    They shared a common friendship with Borzello so chances are Mike hung around Alex as much as anyone.

  175. S.o.S. February 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    mel,
    Iv always thought popavich was one of the best coaches in the game. But yesterday he went the bone headed route and sat all 3 studs for Denvers game even though their next game was Sunday. What the hell was he thinking!?

  176. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Mussina failed to mention Melancon. Mike never brings Coke’s name up. He says “Marte/Mo” when mentioning the pen. I like that Mussina mentioned P.Coke. Apparently Mike forgot all about him.

  177. Boston Dave February 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    rotoworld’s take on the newest Yankee Eric Fryer:

    “He’s not very likely to ever reach the majors.”

    doesn’t mean much since he is still young but figured I’d post one site’s opinion of him.

  178. Christina February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Jenn, I was just making a general comment. I have to say Moose seems like a pretty honest guy but when you ask a player a question like that, regardless if it is true are not, you probably wont get an honest answer from someone. I dont blame players either, you have to be careful with every word you say or something will be blown out of proportion.

  179. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    GB, i think my father and i actually called him ‘Albert’ by mistake on occasion….

  180. Steve B February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    “moose after game 5 against boston in 04 sensed the yankees were in trouble.”

    He wasn’t alone.

  181. Jack Bauer February 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Say you are a certain manager, whose team is playing a divisional rival. Your rookie pitcher just gave up 3 consecutive HR blasts to the opposing hitters. What would you do as a manager at that moment?

  182. m February 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    saucY,

    What are you talking about? beard? No she doesn’t have a beard. But she’s young, Italian, and works in the family construction business.

  183. pat February 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    “the biggest difference between the players the yankees brought in during the 1990s and the players they are bringing in now is the expectations.”

    And we have a winner!

  184. Rebecca-Optimist Prime...Staying to Write the Story February 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    You made me freak out for a second.

    Bad, Sam, bad!

  185. bru February 4th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    nice little trade.chase had no rotation spot going forward & the yankees got a badly needed position player who can play many positions with a good bat.

  186. Boston Dave February 4th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Chase Wright quote after learning about the trade:

    “”I’m fortunate that the Yankees believed in me and stuck with me through all my hard times my first three years,” Wright said. “I wouldn’t be here right now if not for the Yankees. With me signing at 18, I had two goals. I knew at that time there would be a new Yankee Stadium built and I didn’t know how long Joe Torre would be managing. Those were my goals, to play for Joe Torre and to play at Yankees Stadium, and they let me do both of those things.””

    Gotta wish him luck in Milwaukee.

    From Chad Jennings’ SWB Blog.

  187. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    saucY
    February 4th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
    GB, i think my father and i actually called him ‘Albert’ by mistake on occasion….

    ————————————————————

    God…after watching im pitch in those games..win or lose, I wanted to “pull an Albert” on him. drove me nuts.

  188. Boston Dave February 4th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    link to the Chase Wright article:

    http://community.thetimes-trib.....-quot.aspx

    he sounds like a classy guy

  189. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    i could just see verducci saying, “Moose, do you think Mariano cost the Yanks in games 4 and game 7? They ought to cut him a check for helping sell the book.

  190. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    lebron for 62 tonite at the Garden?

  191. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/bl.....nba,138907

    Has anyone seen this? It’s the corniest, funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. Jeter in a python spoof. Apparently there’s more of them out there.

  192. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    man it’s slow in here, thank god i’m headed south for ST.

  193. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Joltin’ Joe,

    I don’t think so. Too obvious. But I think he’d like to own that record one day.

  194. Betsy February 4th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Moose was great with Mike -but I need a couple of pills for the headache I have thanks to Francesca’s “Joba to the pen” query to Moose.

    What is up with Verducci? I don’t think it’s ethical of him (or any reporter) to gather quotes from people (either purposely or just in general conversation) and then use them in books unbeknownst to those people.

    Moose certainly staunchly defended A-Rod…….

  195. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    verducci probably paid moose under the table for those Mo remarks.

  196. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Am I the only one who think “Lisa in Whitestone” sound like Lisa Simpson?

  197. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Lisa is on again!! Does she sit on hold 24/7?

  198. Christina February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    I dont know why, but Lisa from Whitestone gets on my last nerves.

  199. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    As far as the same old Chamberlain to start/relieve crap….this is the same dispute that went on in the mid 80s when Dave Righetti went to the bullpen after being the ’81 ROY and pitching a no-hitter. The difference was that Righetti only had two pitches….a decent fastball and a Ron Guidry slider. Chamberlain has 3 world class pitches and has another one that has the same potential. Until Chamberlain proves that he can’t start due to inability or unable to stay healthy, he needs to start.

  200. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    people couldnt live w/o the mike and the maddog jingle. this guy could defend anyone or anything. shoulda been a lawyer.

  201. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother February 4th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    YRay
    “He’s a firm believer as are many others in the game.
    It’s a great debate and will be until he either wins or loses as a starter. The nice thing is that if he fails as a starter he has a great fall back option and we have young arms to move into the 5 spot.
    We are in a great position on this.”

    it is a great debate ray. it’s the sanctimonious attitude of the people who say everyone who might think joba should be in the bullpen is a dolt that is just too much to take. i can’t count how many baseball people also think he’d be better served in the pen as would the yankees in having him there.

    m, the trouble with the “if he gets arm problems just move him back to the pen” thinking is this: who is to say he will ever be the same afterwards? some injuries leave pitchers much less effective permanently. it can be a real risk. joba’s style, in my opinion, is better suited to shorter stints. i think the chances of injury with him are so much greater as his pitch count rises, more so than most, because of his style. but what will be, will be.

  202. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    i put on Francessa’s show on YES last night and watched about 5 minutes of the Torre interview before getting bored with it and thinking i was still at work :?

    i’ll probably watch the whole Moose interview though….

  203. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    he’s right on joba tho. he WILL be the closer. Someday. Soon.

  204. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    I can’t believe there is still debating over Joba’s role.

    PICK ONE!
    I think he could be the next great closer (and Yankee fans saying closers are overrated are like Bill Gates saying Money isn’t Everything.)

    I think he could be a solid starter.

    Pick one and leave him there! All of this Joba Rules and changing his role has landed him on the DL and save for a month or so last year rendered him worthless in 2008.

    Pick one!
    Pull a Harvey Dent and flip a coin and then don’t waver.

    This is season #3 of “What is he?”

    As I said, I think they need plan B in case Rivera’s career winds down… but he could be a great starter too.

    PICK ONE! You can’t go wrong with picking one or the other but you CAN go wrong by not making a decision!

  205. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Brad,

    I don’t know. The only thing I know is that Joba’s been a starter all his life. The only reason they made him a reliever is because they needed relief. He was on an innings pitch watch and they had to create the Joba rules to protect him.

    Doreen,

    Were the Joba Rules in the book? That must have been somewhat humiliating for Torre.

  206. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    the only reason to start joba now is you dont need him in the pen right now. god forbid Mo went down, who do you think becomes the closer?!!? Joba starting now is a luxury.

  207. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    When Joba goes into the HOF as a starter Mike will be saying he should have been in the pen. lol

  208. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    do you think torre likes yelling, mike?

  209. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother February 4th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    m
    I understand the other point of view. I just think it’s wrong. lol.
    Joba was not injured during his duration as a reliever last year, it happened with the higher pitch counts that come with being a starter. Can he adjust? Maybe, some might say probably. But even if he does, are the Yankees better off with him as a 5 than with him in the pen as the best set-up man in the game? (not to mention insurance for an aging Mo.)

  210. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Sully
    the Yankees did pick one. It’s the fans debating the merits of one or the other. If I remember correctly there was a similar debate with your closer, platypus or whatever his name is.

  211. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    m

    as a knick perhaps?

  212. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Those so-called “Joba Rules” were put in place for every young pitcher and every manage in the system….not for just Torre and not for just Chamberlain. Those were guidelines set by Nardi Contreras. The only thing they set down was not pitching back to back days and multiple innings in order to keep his innings under control to get him through the entire season and post season. That’s more crap that’s been overblown by the media and fans.

  213. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    orrection: ***manager***

  214. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother February 4th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Maine Yankee

    Yeah, that silly Mussina. What’s that guy know about pitching anyway?

    btw, when Maine had that AAA team (Guides, Indians farm team) did you get a chance to see any of their games?

  215. bru February 4th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    hgere we go again with joba in the pen.

    joba might end up in the pen & that might be the best place for him but he needs to be given every chance as a starter.

    francessa saying that because he tries to blow everybody away & has the mentality of a closer that he should be in the pen & because gossage tried twice to be a starter & failed joba should be a closer.

    if joba can’t adjust then move him to the pen.francessa does not know if joba will or will not make it as a starter,nobody knows.

    what francessa seem to forget is that mo & i believe gossage did not have the assortment of pitches that joba has.

    joba also said recently that he knows & got better at realizing that he doesn’t have to blow everybody away,i think we saw an example of that last year when he wasn’t throwing as hard but remained effective.

    francessa also said that look at mo & wettland & how well that worked.

    if it meant preventing a major injury i’d rather have joba in the pen because he is special but he should be given every chance to start first.

  216. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Joltin’ Joe,

    Or as a Laker. :)

    Tarheelyank,

    They were going to make him a starter, but something happened to Foulke (?) so they said he’d be the closer. Paps was pisssssed. I saw the quotes, but espn.com sanitized it like it never happened. New quotes from Papelbon talking about being a team player and what not.

  217. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    bru

    if mo couldnt go, would joba go to pen?

  218. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    GB7,

    Really? This is the first I’ve heard that the Joba Rules never existed. Seriously.

    Torre was mad, though. When word of the non-existent Joba Rules got to the beat guys.

  219. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    when posada says joba should be in the pen, you listen.

  220. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    mike isnt worried about the jingle.

  221. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Good trade I suppose since our farm is lacking quality position players.

  222. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    And GB,

    They told Torre he couldn’t use Joba back to back because they didn’t want him to end up like the countless other relievers Torre “trusted”.

  223. Nick in SF February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Can someone prove that Joba’s injury was caused by starting baseball games? Do only starters get that kind of injury? Has any relief pitcher ever had that kind of injury? Has any pitcher ever had a similar injury and then gone on to have a career as a durable starter?

    Thanks in advance.

  224. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Brad

    I meant Francesa not Mussina.

    Yes I did go to some of the Guides games. Not many, boys LL teams would go at the end of the year. I think they also were a Phillies affiliate also.

    I go see Trenton play RS AA Sea Dogs in Portland when I can.

    Saw Matsui play there when he was rehabing from broken wrist. My son got his autograph. He seemed like a classy guy.

  225. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Tarheelyank,

    The debate over Papelbon lasted about a month and they made a decision.
    They stuck him in the bullpen and didn’t waver even when there was injuries to the starting staff.

    It worked out.

  226. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    mike is right about joba. they are fooling with him. you know he will be in the pen in september/october.

  227. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Nick in SF
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
    Can someone prove that Joba’s injury was caused by starting baseball games? Do only starters get that kind of injury? Has any relief pitcher ever had that kind of injury? Has any pitcher ever had a similar injury and then gone on to have a career as a durable starter?
    Thanks in advance.

    Jorge Posada says you’re an idiot.

  228. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    m –

    The Joba rules were in the book. I just (10 minutes ago!) finished reading that section. Torre says he had no problems with the rules at all, that he assumed they were to care for Joba’s arm and in fact mostly spoke with Contreras (Nardi) with all matters Joba during the time.

    I also just finished reading the midge stuff. Still boggles my mind.

    BTW -

    If Torre calls Cash a friend, I don’t know who he’d call an enemy.

    Randy l -

    The section I’m reading now is talking about the Indians’ Shapiro and what their organization has done to upgrade itself to compete. The Yankees FO is taking quite a hit in this book. But what is very, very interesting and disconcerting is that Torre speaks with great disdain about Cashman starting to lean toward the numbers while Verducci speaks in reverent tones about the A’s, the Red Sox and the Indians doing the same.

  229. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Ha ha we now have a slew of “Joba needs to be in pen” callers. :lol:

  230. bru February 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    why didn’t the mets put santanna in the pen,why not sabathia in the pen? why don’t you see any club throw a great pitcher in the pen unless injuries are a concern or a pitcher like pap asks to go to the pen???

    any closer can get hurt on any club.do you think any team will pull a starting pitcher out of the rotation & make them a closer if that pitcher can be a great starter?? i doubt it very much.

    if you’re closer goes down you go out & get another one or hope you have an in house solution,that is how it happens.

    it wouldn’t be the end of the world to put joba in the pen but you always take care of you’re starting pitching first.

    if joba keeps getting into pitch count trouble then maybe he goes to the pen but to totally give up on him as a starting pitcher is crazy.

    i just would rather have joba starting right now compared to the alternative.

  231. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Why does everyone forget that Mo was a failed starter, that is why he was converted to a reliever.

  232. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Does Wfan hand out stupid pills before people can speak on the radio?

  233. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    gossage, mo, eckersley,righetti and even smoltz gained fame as relievers.

  234. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    m -

    I remember that with Papelbon. He was psyched about starting and was not very keen on being the closer and then they did that thing they do in Boston, that mind-altering stuff, and, poof, he’s not only fine with it,, but wanted it all along!

    Papelbon wanted to start because starters make more money. No doubt in my mind. Because isn’t he the guy who wants to set the new salary standard for closers????

  235. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Sully

    Didn’t Papelbon have some issues with his shoulder that influenced the decision to keep him in the pen. I think they still have to moniter his strength in the shoulder now.

  236. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    I’ve got about 40 pages left in the book.

  237. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    “Why does everyone forget that Mo was a failed starter….”

    They don’t forget Jennifer, they don’t bring it because it doesn’t help their argument for having Joba in the pen.

  238. Fran February 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Doreen – Torre said yesterday that he would have written the book even if he was still with the Yanks. I have not read the book but based on your detailed summary, do you think that he would have been able to write this book and exist with the Yankees front office, let alone some of the players like ARod? It seems like it would have been to strained a relationship and would have affected the team.

  239. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Doreen,

    Thank you! I was starting to think I was crazy. No one remembers it like that. I left a thank-you note about Damon way up the thread. Thanks again.

  240. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Sully,
    I am not a Sox fan, but that’s not how I remember it. This is what I could find so far.

    “Two days after announcing that the 41-year-old Timlin will start the season on the disabled list, multiple team sources told ESPN’s Erin Andrews that the Red Sox have decided Jonathan Papelbon has regained the closer’s job.
    Papelbon had 35 saves and a 0.92 ERA last season as a closer in his rookie year, but a shoulder problem detected late in the season led the team to decide he would move to the starting rotation in 2007.

    Because of Papelbon’s shoulder issues, there will be restrictions on how he is used: He won’t throw when he is tired and he won’t appear in more than three games in a row, Andrews reports.”

  241. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    bru

    just saying you can bet the yanks are counting on joba as their future closer. not set-up.
    do you think he’d be a 5th starter if they thought any different?

  242. pat February 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Doreen

    Do you mean Torre didn’t speak of Cash as a friend or Cash wasn’t a friend to Joe?

  243. bru February 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
    bru

    if mo couldnt go, would joba go to pen?

    i don’t know but anytime a closer goes down in baseball teams always find a solution without pulling a starter out of the rotation.a closer always comes along.

    the yankees might have a bunch of them in house.why don’t managers pull starters out of the rotation like becket,santanna,sabathia,etc???

    we have melancon,bruney & more,one of them will work out.

    papelbon had injury concerns & asked to be put in the pen,you can’t compare the two.

    if joba asked to go to the pen then i would put him in the pen.

  244. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    “I’ve got about 40 pages left in the book.”

    holy…..

    speed reader or just devoted?

    i have very little patience for books, but i think this one may be able to hold my attention. i’m such a slow reader.

  245. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Doreen & m

    You two remember it the way I do. From some of what Papelbon has said I think the long term contract discussion could get ugly.

  246. Burnett after reading February 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    I was actually in Boston for the entire series that Chase Wrights infamous 4 home run occurred. I am a diehard yankees fan and after the 4th home run i just stood up and gave a polite clap. I was so shocked I didn’t know what else to do.

    Before the game the sox fans behind me were saying we had no chance and mockingly calling him “Chad Wrong”. After the 4th homerun the two guys left and came back with 6 beers. Two each for me and my buddy and one for them. They said after that we know you guys are in desperate need of a beer haha. Great times in Fenway Pahhkkk

  247. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    bru,

    Papelbon wanted to be a starter. But something happened to Timlin.

    What a different world this would be if Papelbon was a starter and Timlin was their closer. Sigh.

  248. trisha - Joe Torre is a major league fraud February 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    About Joba. I would love to see him as a starter (especially because he is excited about that role) and eventually see him morph into the role of closer, because I think he could be lights out in that role also.

    Sound good?

    (If this isn’t an original thought I apologize. I don’t get to read a lot of the posts when I come on to post.)

  249. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    bru

    did santana or sabathia come up as relievers? no. joba made his mark as a reliever. he tried starting and was a 5 inng pitcher. without fail he would be at the 100 pitch mark by the 5th or 6th. so the yanks pencil him in as the 5th starter. where do you think he will be in October? setting up for Mo, that’s where.

  250. Trevor February 4th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    If Rivera ever goes down then Marte would likely close.

  251. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Joltin Joe— Santana relieved.

  252. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    So if I understand correctly,
    Paps went from being a starter to a closer due to injury to Foulke.

    Then ST of 2007 back to starter.

    Then back to closer. Due to injury to Timlin.

    All that means is Sully shouldn’t be talking about the Yankees and Joba!

  253. bru February 4th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
    bru

    just saying you can bet the yanks are counting on joba as their future closer. not set-up.
    do you think he’d be a 5th starter if they thought any different
    ————————————————————

    i don’t know what they are thinking but what happens if melancon comes up & is lights out,will you change you’re mind about joba to the pen???

    the think that kills me is that the yankees do not have a bullpen problem at all & we are discussing joba going to the pen,that is the funny thing.

    when do you see a team pulling a potential cy young winner who has at least 4 great pitches out of the rotation when they are having no bullpen problems whatsoever & several potential replacements inhouse???

    joba pitching as a starter or in the pen is fine with me as long as he is on the team & healthy but joba pitching 200 innings is better than him pitching 80 innings.

  254. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Oh man not the Joba in the pen argument. Fat Mike needs to understand that he knows a lot less about Joba’s injury and capabilities than the Yankees organization. Just because you feel he needs to be in the pen doesn’t mean that he should. Joba himself wants to start, I know people dont view players as human beings with desires and opinions but they are! Secondly even if you do want him in the pen shouldn’t he be allowed a chance to start? He was phenomenal as a starter, that game up in Fenway should be sent to Francesa’s studio just to remind him of what the “Joba is a starter” crowd stands for. Finally Mariano was mediocre as a starter and thats why he relegated to the pen! Joba was great in both roles lets see how this plays out before we put a 23 year old kid in the bullpen for the rest of his career.

  255. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    m –

    You’re welcome about the Damon stuff.

    Fran -

    Absolutely not! And not so much the players because the only active player to take a hit was Alex (I don’t count Damon or some others because at least they were quoted in the context of what Torre was talking about). But the ownership and Cash – no way!

    pat -

    The way Torre spoke of Cash in his last 2-ish years there.

  256. Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption February 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    5 inning pitcher? Did you forget the game he outdueled Beckett IN Fenway? If I didn’t understand how immensely overrated closers are I may want him in the bullpen. I can understand people who do want him there but it doesn’t make sense IMO. 200+ innings pitched against 70+ innings by the most special arm on the major league roster, which sounds better? 20 wins > 40 saves.

  257. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    For the people that are trying to say if Joba is a starter he’s a #5 starter don’t seem to realize that’s what he is this year. He has the pitches and the stuff to be a #1 when he is more mature.

    To me it’s a waste of talent to put him in the pen when they paid over 160mil for a #1 this year.

  258. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    bru

    you think closing is easy? or for that matter, setting up? please,everyone knows those are the toughest outs in the game, especially in New York. how did tom gordon do a few years ago? only a handful of pitchers can handle the pressure of closing. they are more likely to call up some youngster from aaa to start than to close.

  259. m February 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Tarheelyank,

    The Timlin one is correct. That was the big hullabaloo.

    I’m not sure, but I think he was a closer in college & the minors. If he was, I don’t know why he thought he could be a starter in the majors. :)

  260. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    saucy -

    I decided to devote the day to the book, but I’m a pretty quick reader.

  261. Ed - spring training can't start soon enough February 4th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    “did santana or sabathia come up as relievers? no”

    joltin joe-

    failed. Santana did came up as a reliever, then was moved to the rotation. He was a spot started and a long reliever for the first 4 seasons of his career before fulling to the rotation full time.

    http://www.baseball-reference......jo02.shtml

    you are very welcome.

  262. joeman February 4th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Yanks have three needs…..one is a CF,a utility player & a vetern SP…their current CF situation isn’t going to cut it,it will be a problem all year,I say sign A Jones for two years. There is a need to upgrade infield with a utility player that can play 3b,ss & 2nd. If they are going to limit Joba with inning pitched,put him as the 8th inning guy & sometime closer..groom him to be a closer. The need for a vet SP(eats innings) is for him to pitch until Hughes is ready & be ready to step in when or if one of the SP gets injured

  263. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    as long as joba doesnt hurt himself starting then fine with me. but i still think yanks are looking for him to be the future closer. with sabathia, wang and burnett ahead of him, he would have to be lights out to be the ace.

  264. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Andruw Jones? Are you kidding?

  265. Wave Your Hat February 4th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    “For the people that are trying to say if Joba is a starter he’s a #5 starter don’t seem to realize that’s what he is this year. He has the pitches and the stuff to be a #1 when he is more mature.”

    This is what so many people miss when debating whether Joba should start or relieve.

    Sure, if he is innings-limited this year he may have nearly as much value in the pen this year (I don’t think so, but it is arguable), but the value down the road has to be taken into account.

    Once he can pitch 200+ innings his value as a starter will be enormously greater than as a reliever, even a closer.

    You have to give Joba the time to develop to his full potential.

  266. joeman February 4th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    to those who keep saying that Joba is going to pitch 200 innings it’s not going to happen,the Yankees won’t allow it

  267. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    tarheelyank,

    Not 100% sure how that contradicted what I said.
    Papelbon started a few games in 2005 and was supposed to be a starter in 2006 but Francona put him in the pen when Foulke didn’t look strong and suddenly he had a closer.

    But he got hurt and missed September when the Sox fell out of contention.
    They went into spring training 2007 thinking he was going to be a starter but there were some injuries to Timlin, Joel Pinero looked rotten and finally Paps said “I want to close.”

    So they stuck him in the bullpen.

    And I may be wrong, but 2007 was an OK year for both Papelbon and the Red Sox. (I know I am showing a Red sox fan bias, but I was pleased with how the year ended.)

    But the question of “should he start or relieve was answered during spring training in both 2006 and 2007… not during the regular season.

  268. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Santana was an interesting case because he was a rule 5 pick by the twins. They had to develop him without sending him to the minors that first year.

  269. Jeter's Edge (In Blaz'n Copper!) February 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Anyone else notice how dumb the people who visit the yestnetwork site are? This poll is from their website:

    “Poll Question: With Andy Pettitte back in the fold, should Joba Chamberlain be in the bullpen?

    Yes
    1506 Votes (71%)

    No
    626 Votes (29%)

    Your vote was No on 2/4/09 3:58 PM “

  270. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    ed

    and how did relieving work out for santana? thanks.

  271. joeman February 4th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    why not A Jones ? The guy had one bad year because he was of of shape…look at his #’s you just don’t lose it all at once at his age.

  272. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Wave

    Thanks

  273. bru February 4th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    m
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    bru,

    Papelbon wanted to be a starter. But something happened to Timlin.

    What a different world this would be if Papelbon was a starter and Timlin was their closer. Sigh.

    ——————————————————–

    forget the details.what is different is that papelbon said he was willing to go to the pen because the sox needed a closer,the yankees do not & the red sox had enough starters,the yankees do not when considering debth and the fact that pettitte might be gone after 09.

    joba would be great as a closer,maybe he does not make it as a starter,time will tell but starting pitching is more important.

    a closer always comes along & it might be joba.there were a few closers on the market this year if the yankees really needed one.

    the yankees should also listen to what joba might wan’t to do & he said he is happy he is a starter.

    you can make a case for both but there is a reason why managers & gm’s do not pull a great starter or a potential one out of the rotation for the pen unless the pitcher can’t make it as a starter,injuries or that pitcher asks to go to the pen.

    you are in the minority on this issue,that should tell you something.

  274. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    “to those who keep saying that Joba is going to pitch 200 innings it’s not going to happen,the Yankees won’t allow it”

    Of course he wont be throwing 200 innings. However he will throw around 160 then be put in the pen come September and the playoff run. That is really the best way to get him as many starts as possible then conserve him down the stretch.

  275. Carl February 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Let him Joba start on a low innings count then move him to the pen in the playoffs.

  276. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    m
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
    GB7,

    Really? This is the first I’ve heard that the Joba Rules never existed. Seriously.

    Torre was mad, though. When word of the non-existent Joba Rules got to the beat guys.

    ————————————————————

    Mel, I didn’t say that there weren’t guidelines on Torre’s use of Chamberlain. I only said that they were the same guidelines that the organization had for all of their young pitchers and managers. Hughes, Kennedy and all of the pitchers had the same rules. Kennedy was a little different, because coming out of a big college program, he had the innings, but, he was still pitch count restricted.

    Contreras and Gil Patterson set these rules in place, and Patterson was really adament about them because of how he was used and had his career wrecked by Billy Martin and the old system. Guidry said about Gil Patterson that he was the best arm and talent in baseball when he first saw him pitch, and he said he wished he’d had that sort of talent. Martin, by the way, destroyed two pitching staffs in Oakland, one in Minnesota and pretty much ruined Catfish Hunter’s career. Hunter was finished at age 32. Those wre the reasons for the rules.

  277. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    Given everything I read, I have the question for Joe Torre. Why didn’t he just tell the Yankees he didn’t want back in? I’m not really sure what the whole last days were about. He had already said he was sick and tired of the new regime, sick and tired of being second guessed, and realized that George was no longer in control and he had no support. The question is, Joe, why did you put yourself in a position to be made a wishy-washy offer?

  278. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    I’m not one of these Red Sox fans who think every move the Sox made is great and every move the Yankees made is bad.

    The Sox and Theo have made some super stupid moves (*Cough Not Signing Orlando Cabrera* Cough) (*Cough trading Bronson Arroyo for Willy Mo Pena *Cough) (*Cough the Eric Gagne trade *Cough)

    And the Yankees have made some superb moves and Joba is a tremendous talent.
    All I am saying is pick a roll!

    (truth be told, I liked the Gagne trade when they did it… it just played out worse than The Phantom Menace. But I knew not bringing back Cabrera was stupid then and it was. And I ALWAYS hated the Willy Mo Pena… then again I HATED the JD Drew signing and that worked out… )

  279. Tin February 4th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    I think this guy we acquired should lose weight…he looks too heavy for a CF,I belive we do need a middle fielder in the future.Austin Jackson had a bad winter,I guess he will plays AAA in hole season,and we dont know how good he will be,seek some CF candidates are good move:P

  280. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    bru,

    First of all, I was kindly telling you that you were wrong on this statement: *papelbon had injury concerns & asked to be put in the pen,you can’t compare the two.*

    I was not telling you that your opinion is wrong. Half the time I don’t know what you and dave are saying anyway.

    Now that should tell you something.

    I’ve stated my opinion above. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-655660

    It probably lines up with what the Yankees are thinking. He’s a starter until he isn’t.

  281. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    doreen

    joe became such a legend in his own mind. how could someone else determine my future. i will be the master of my own domain even if it spites the yankees.

  282. pat February 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Doreen

    Thanks. Maybe it won’t be the “nice easy read” that Joe told Cash it would be. This whole situation; the book, the interviews, etc…just seem calculating. Would reading the book change my mind on that?

  283. SteveB February 4th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    I’m finally catching up with this group after 267 other posts—

    1) Torre book– I am about to get it. I think it’s much ado over nothing.
    2) Chase wright– I had the pleasure of watching him pitch in Trenton several times. He is much better than that one inning in Boston that everyone else can’t seem to get over. Still he’s been passed over for whatever reason in the Yankee organization. I can see him doing well in Milwaukee. I wish him well.
    3) Eric Fryer– if it wasn’t February 4, we wouldn’t be discussing a low-A ballplayer. He has hitting potential at least, give Cashman credit for that.
    4) Joba to the pen?– the Yankees want him to be a starter, so that’s where he’ll be. I’m one of those who thinks he’d make a great closer, but the simple fact is, we don’t know EITHER WAY right now. Let’s try him as a starter, keep an eye on his health & his progress, if he succeeds there, great. If it doesn’t work out, we know we have an alternative. Meanwhile the Yankee bullpen, potentially, is loaded with talent, and I love it.

  284. bru February 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    m
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    bru,

    Papelbon wanted to be a starter. But something happened to Timlin.

    What a different world this would be if Papelbon was a starter and Timlin was their closer. Sigh.

    ———————————————————

    how do we know what papelbon in the rotation would look like???

    that 1-0 game joba pitched against becket,do the yankees win with joba in the pen? the pen held up then.

    if we absolutely need a closer then you consider it but now it is crazy to think about joba in the pen now when he can win the cy one day.

    there are several options the yankees have first.

    the pitcher usually will make the decision for the team.i think the process needs to play itself out instead of forcing a decision.

  285. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Sully no offense but your a Sox fan. As such, your 3:14 pm post was out of line. Especially considering the Sox went through similar vacillations regarding thier closer. And it wasn’t so neat and tidy as you portray it either.

  286. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Bru,

    The 2007 Red Sox had enough starting pitching in retrospect, but going into the season there were tons of question marks.

    - Josh Becketts first season was 5.00 ERA mess and he looked like a Carl Pavano “NL Pitcher who couldn’t hack it in the AL” starter

    - Curt Schilling was old and coming off of injuries

    - Nobody knew if Daisuke Matsusaka was going to be Hideo Nomo or Hideki Irabu

    - Tim Wakefield is… well… Tim Wakefield

    - Jon Lester had cancer

    A lot of my blowhard-please-shut-the-hell-up-you-are-so-annoying Red Sox fan friends thought his going to the bullpen was a waste of talent with so many question marks.

    It turned out things broke the right way for Boston that year, but saying they were loaded in the rotation is 20/20 vision with hindsight.

  287. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Tarheel… sorry you thought my saying the Yankees should make a decision was out of line.

    And I am also sorry that saying that a pair of decisions made in spring training was less messy that the borderline insanity that the Yankees had with Joba last season.

    My being a Boston fan doesn’t necessarily mean I am without an opinion on this matter.

    I’m not one of those “Yankees Suck! Jeter Suck!” meatheads despite my name being Sully.

  288. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    pitchers and catchers…

  289. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    bru,

    I don’t know what Paps in the rotation would be like, but I would love to have Timlin as their closer. His conversion rate would be around .500.

    You need to argue with someone else, I’m okay with wherever Joba pitches. As long as he’s healthy and he’s pitching in the Bronx.

  290. Jeremy February 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    I think if the Yankees put Joba back in the pen, we would see an endless wave of media commentary about making him a starter again.

  291. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    39

  292. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    If Timlin was the closer the Red Sox would have finished third place in 2007, the Yankees would have probably won the World Series and Francona would probably be a studio host on MLB Network.

    I love Timlin, in fact I am writing the Timlin bio for my Blue Jays Home Grown vs Acquired piece right now.

    I also love my sons but I don’t want them closing either.

  293. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    I like this Sully guy, wonder if he knows Ray?

  294. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    maris hit 39 in ’60
    for a total of 100 in ’60/’61.
    the greatest yankee fan on LI couldnt answer that one by mike.

  295. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    I argued with my Yankee friends (who I prefer to talk to about baseball than Red Sox fans… we’re an obnoxious lot) about Joba being a closer last year because I said “You don’t know if he can even make the transition to the rotation.”

    Then he started and shut my boys down in Fenway… and I gulped and said “Um… I guess I was wrong!”

    He could be great at either one.
    And, no offense tarheel, but they SHOULD make a decision.

  296. bru February 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    m
    February 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
    bru,

    First of all, I was kindly telling you that you were wrong on this statement: papelbon had injury concerns & asked to be put in the pen,you can’t compare the two.

    I was not telling you that your opinion is wrong. Half the time I don’t know what you and dave are saying anyway.

    Now that should tell you something.

    I’ve stated my opinion above. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-655660

    It probably lines up with what the Yankees are thinking. He’s a starter until he isn’t.

    ——————————————————-

    how was i wrong?

    pap asked to go to the pen.i might have the injury part wrong but there is a big difference.

    how can you not understand this?

    something might have happened to timlin but the most important part of this is that pap asked to go to the pen.

  297. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Ray?

    As in Ray’s Famous Pizza?

  298. Vito February 4th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Why not Jones?
    Because even when healthy and in shape he has a huge hole in his swing and his defense is slipping. Give the kids a chance and if need be you can always trade pitching depth for a vet in June/July. With our lineup CF just needs to play solid defense – something Melky and Gardner can both do. Also, worst case you can slide Damon over there a couple days a week. Unless both Melky and Gardner hit .200 it isn’t a problem.

  299. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    m

    How do you think Celtic-Lakers turs out thurs?

  300. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
    gossage, mo, eckersley,righetti and even smoltz gained fame as relievers.

    ————————————————————

    Eckersley was a 20 game winner and pitched a no hitter, had 200 strikeouts, and won 150 gam as a starter. Smoltz won Cy Youngs, more than 200 game as a starter, multiple 200 strikeout years. I’d say they made their names long before going to the bullpen.

  301. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    one thing about joba. I wouldn’t want him running the bases in those interleague games.

  302. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Sully,

    Thank you for making my point.

    Joba vs. Paps is not a valid argument with Mo as the closer.

    If we didn’t have Mo, there’d be no question where Joba would be. Unless we aquired one of the many closers that were on the market this season. Thank god for Mo! I wouldn’t be able to stand the sight of K-rod in pinstripes.

  303. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    turns out

  304. bru February 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Pap to the pen: A good move?
    Published by Seth Mnookinon March 23, 2007in Jonathan Papelbon, Julian Tavarez, Red Sox Fans, Sosh, Sports Reporters and Statistics.
    So much for Papelbon’s short-lived career as a starting pitcher: yesterday, as everyone living within 500 miles of Boston undoubtedly knows, Jonathan Papelbon was named the Sox’s 2007 closer. At first blush, it’s hard to argue with this decision: Papelbon, a fourth round pick in the ‘03 draft, was, for 5/6’s of the ‘06 season, the best closer in the league. And lord knows I’m glad we’re not going to be watching Mike Timlin jogging out of the bullpen in the bottom of the ninth.

    The move, according to everyone from Papelbon himself to the ticket takers in Ft. Myers, came after Paps himself requested he return to the bullpen, which, on a certain level, makes the whole discussion of whether or not this is a good idea moot. (After all, when you have a young stud offering to fill the team’s most glaring hole, it’s hard to marshal a good reason to deny him his request.) But will Papelbon be more valuable coming on in the ninth than he would be if he’d taken the mound every fifth day? That’s a trickier question. There’s undoubtedly a big psychological boost that comes with having a lights-out flamethrower set to slam shut the door at the end of a game. But let’s say Julian Taverez — who’s more than a little nuts — fills the fifth starter role to the tune of, say, a .500 record and a 4.43 ERA. And, for arguments sake, let’s say Papelbon would have put up a 10-6 record with a 4.07 ERA.

  305. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    “PICK ONE!”
    “sorry you thought my saying the Yankees should make a decision was out of line.”

    The Yankees have told Joba he’s a starter. It’s the fans debating it.

    “My being a Boston fan doesn’t necessarily mean I am without an opinion on this matter.”

    True but,you seem to suffer from Sox selective memory disfunction. :D

    But with a name like Sully, It’s kind of hard to mad at you.

  306. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    There was a lot of hemming and hawing in spring training in 2007 about Papelbon’s role.

    Once he came into Francona’s office and said “I’d rather close.” it ended.

    I understand Joba said he’d rather start.
    He showed he can start.

    Fine.
    Develop another closer in the farm system.
    Mariano can’t close forever

  307. Nick in SF February 4th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    The Yankees made a decision already, Joba is a starter. I think this ‘controversy’ exists outside of the orgainization.

  308. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    I got a lot of people congratulating me on how I landed that plane

  309. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    greenberet

    i’ll give you smoltz but not eck, he went into the hall as a reliever

  310. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Maine,

    Hoping for the best (win), but expecting the worse (a loss).

    The Celtics will have their guard down a little because they think no Bynum, no problem. But they’ll want to avenge the loss in LA.

    Pau will probably have a good game. He was not happy with how he played in the playoffs.

  311. joeman February 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    does Mo ever pick up the ball before spring training,or does he just go down there and start throwing ?

  312. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Sully
    I was thinking of more along the lines of Monsters inc.
    :D

  313. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    “Ray?

    As in Ray’s Famous Pizza?”

    No just another Sox fan who posts on here frequently his name is Ray.

  314. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    m

    I don’t think they will have their guard down. Also KG will be snorting like a bull after missing the last 2 games. I’m not sure Pau is tough enough to deal with Perk. Should be a good game. Maybe Kobe used up some of his points in NY. lol

  315. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    We have 3 eyewitnesses (okay Maine Yankee, Doreen, and myself) who saw how mad Papelbon was when he found out that he was back to the pen.

    We’re not talking about that afternoon when he changed his tune, we’re talking about the morning.

    He did not go ask to get back in the pen. I agree with Doreen, it has to do with money. Starters make more than closers. Only after he went back to the pen did he start talking about setting the gold $tandard for closer $$.

  316. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    “does Mo ever pick up the ball before spring training,or does he just go down there and start throwing ?”

    Supposedly he never really does much serious throwing in the off-season I think he has said he just plays soft-toss and catch with his kids. This year is different however because he is rehabbing the shoulder.

  317. pat February 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    Head to head- A-Rod/Pujols thru their first 8 years

    http://www.sportingnews.com/bl.....nte/182894

  318. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    pat -

    I literally just closed the back cover of the book.

    Some of the things we heard and read about the book will come out much better in the context of the book.

    Some things, you will say, you know, he really did not have to go there (Kevin Brown and a couple of others).

    The Cashman stuff is difficult to read. If I’m Cash, I’m hurt.

    The George stuff is difficult to read, if only because we are all aware of how protective the Yankees have been about disclosing the exact nature and severity of George’s condition. For a man who talks about trust, I think this was a huge betrayal. And George is not in a position to defend himself.

    It is clear that ARod is not a favorite of either Verducci or Torre and aside from the entire chapter devoted to him, there are a couple of cheap shots in other places.

    You will be surprised by some of the other players who do not get glowing reviews, but who contributed to the quotes.

    You will note a couple of instances where Torre and/or Verducci speak out of both sides of their mouth.

    I think you will come to the conclusion that I did – why did Torre even bother to go to Tampa in the end?

    The first half of the book is easy to read, because it recounts happier times.

    It is still difficult to wrap my heads around the premise that the Yankees were a terrible team in the last 5 years of the Torre regime, since they got to the playoffs each of those years, even if they didn’t get to the WS, winning a ton of games.

    It is difficult to understand how players can be criticized as not being desperate enough to win while winning 101, 101 and 97 games.

    There is no story in this book about how Cashman is trying to turn the thinking of the front office around, only points out failures in the Yankee front office, criticizing Cash for trying to adapt to the new way of looking at building an organization while simultaneously raising up the A’s, Red Sox and Indians for doing just that.

    It is an interesting book, it is enlightening, but I still think the bitterness of the end does the rest of the story a disservice. Perhaps with the perspective of a year or two the bitterness would fade, but who really knows that? Some of the things Torre says toward the end make him sound like a spoiled brat.

    It was like a tale of two teams – the best of times and the worst of times – but the worst of times still included the playoffs!

  319. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    I wrote on my blog about K-Rod…
    Met fans should prepare for Armando Benitez part 2!

    K-Rod’s whole reputation of being a great big game pitcher came in 2002 when he pitched 5 2/3 more innings than me in the regular season and the Yankees, Twins and Giants faced him without a scouting report.

    Have you taken a look at his post season numbers after 2002?
    YEEEEESH!
    Even Byun Yung Kim would look at them and say “Man he SUCKS!”
    In the 2004 Division series, my boys and the Angels played only 3 games.
    He lost 2 of them. That’s hard to do.
    He let up Manny’s walk off homer in 2007 that hasn’t landed yet.
    He let up JD Drew’s game winner in 2008.

    Yeah he piles up saves… so did Benitez!
    Yeah he has the single season saves record… passing the immortal Bobby Thigpen

    You Yankee fans are going to LOVE watching him blow up in the big game in Queens.

    There’s a big difference in the pressure of New York than in California… or Anaheim… or Los Angeles… or Los Angeles of Anaheim… or whatever the hell they are calling that franchise!

  320. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I actually just discovered this site because someone on here linked my Home Grown/Acquired piece.

    and I like what I am reading.

    It’s actually baseball discussion as opposed to a place like the Daily News which is a “Who can call the most players Gay as possible.”

    Even Tarheel and I can have a peaceful disagreement.

    (Cue “We Are The World”)

  321. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    He really comes off as being clueless in the midge game.

  322. jennifer February 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Oh boy another caller who took stupid pills. It’s all arods fault we didn’t succeed in the playoffs. I didn’t realize he pitched, and played every base.

  323. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Wow, Doreen! What a review! I think I want to read now. It sounds like the tone of the book is worse than any particuluar stories in the book.

    Friends of Cash say he is “devastated” and why shouldn’t he be? He probably loved Torre like a father and probably fought for him more than Torre realizes.

  324. Bob(The Original) February 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Just listened to Moose’s interview on WFAN.

    Definetly worth listening to. It’s on the WFAN’s website.

    Great interview.

  325. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
    greenberet

    i’ll give you smoltz but not eck, he went into the hall as a reliever

    ————————————————————

    Eckersley was one of the top starting pitchers in baseball during the 70′s thru mid ’80s. Oakland traded for him and LaRussa only stuck him in the pen because he couldn’t crack Oland’s rotatin. LaRussa lucked out when his closer went down and stucked out when Eckersley showed he could close. He only had 16 his first year.

  326. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    m -

    Once the decision was made re: Papelbon, he got on board. But I definitely remember the first reports about it – he was not happy.

  327. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    Doreen

    I think you did a good job reviewing the book. It sounds to me from what you have said that he did say things he should’nt. At least not now.

  328. pat February 4th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Doreen

    Thanks. Post that in the Amazon book review. Took too much time writing it for it to go to waste. :smile:

    I want to give the book a fair read and need to get the hype out of my head first before I do that. Might have been a good approach for Joe to take when writing it as well.

  329. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    A-Rod was miserable from game 5 2004 through the end of the 2007 playoffs…
    But they lost 2005 and 2006 because Randy Johnson got lit up and they lost 2007 because Wang got lit up.

  330. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    Well at first he may have hated it, but he seemed to enjoy it on the mound in Denver

  331. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Sully,

    You’ve joined the welcome ranks of ray (sox fan), dennis costanza, and Dave (sox fan).

    But we’ve got rules!

    1. Playful banter is good.
    2. Bringing up bad memories is bad.
    3. Only Yankee fans can point out A-rod’s shortcomings. :)

  332. Nick in SF February 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Doreen: thanks much for your posts about the actual contents of the book. I appreciated the sober and sincere information and I feel like I have a much better sense of what’s in the book than I did before. Kudos to you. But I hope you didn’t pay full retail.

  333. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Doreen should be a book reviewer

  334. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    m -

    I want to be careful here. The tone of the first half of the book is fine. Neutral, really. Couldn’t find much fault, maybe a couple of items. But once 2004 hit, the tone definitely changes.

    In fairness, I think the fans have never been the same since 2004 either.

    The expectations that were set in place after winning 4 out of 5 WS were unattainable, really.

    One thing Verducci wrote that is really quite true is that by the time 2004 rolls around, and 2005, and 2006 and 2007, the team was still the Yankees, but it was not the same team as the 1996-2003 teams. Same uniform, different people. And many of those new people did not have winning in their background, and certainly not to the extent that Jeter, et al. did. They came to the Yankees as free agents to “finally” win a WS. It was just supposed to happen.

  335. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    thank you m

    But how can I playfully banter without bringing up certain wrist slapping events?

    I’ll behave.
    I was a Red Sox fan living in NYC from 1990-2005.
    I lived among you.
    I was like Sigourney Weaver in Gorillas in the Mist

  336. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Nick in SF

    I had my B&N membership discount!

    But I’m kicking my self because I could have pre-ordered it on Amazon.com for a lot less, but I wasn’t going to buy the book. Then I realized I was not going to sit at B&N for two days in order to read it.

  337. Sean Serritella February 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    I did not know that GreenBeret7. You learn something new every day.

  338. Brad February 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Matt DeSalvo’s name came up. In case nobody caught it, he signed a minor league deal with the Mets with an invite to spring training.

    As for Pooplebon . . . . . . he’s a fishmouth.

    Nice move by Cashman in getting Eric Fryer for Chase Wright who was designated when Pettitte signed. I would be great if Fryer gets as far as Trenton this year and Chase Wright makes the Brewers staff out of spring training.

  339. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    greenberet

    eck was a .500 starter without his 20 win season. he pitched half his career as a starter, which half do you think got him into the hall?

  340. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    Sully,

    As long as you don’t wear your catcher’s mask, it’s fine.

  341. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    “Fine.
    Develop another closer in the farm system.
    Mariano can’t close forever”

    Sully two words. Mark Melancon.

  342. Al from BK February 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Sully- A-Rod was miserable in 2007? 54 HR’s is miserable?

  343. bru February 4th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    m
    February 4th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
    We have 3 eyewitnesses (okay Maine Yankee, Doreen, and myself) who saw how mad Papelbon was when he found out that he was back to the pen.

    We’re not talking about that afternoon when he changed his tune, we’re talking about the morning.

    He did not go ask to get back in the pen. I agree with Doreen, it has to do with money. Starters make more than closers. Only after he went back to the pen did he start talking about setting the gold $tandard for closer $$.

    ————————————————————

    it might be about the money but he asked to go to the pen.

    i don’t care what his motivations were,i am talking about words that came out of his mouth.it is on him if he is lying.

    the problem with people like you & gb,you think you are always right & everybody else is wrong.

    i got the injury thing backwards,he wen’t to the starting rotation because of injury concerns not the other way around but you are wrong if you are saying pap never said he wanted to return to the closer role,regardless of his motivations.

  344. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Eckersley threw a no hitter, right?

  345. Wave Your Hat February 4th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    “Sully- A-Rod was miserable in 2007? 54 HR’s is miserable?”

    And it seemed like half of those home runs were of the game-winning walk-off variety.

  346. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    What team in any sport filled with guys trying to finally win a WS has won?

    I guess a few Red Wing teams and the 1994 49ers and possibly the 2001 D’Backs (sorry).

    But the teams that win tend to be a combination of young home grown players and some saavy veterans. When you just fill the team up with mercenaries, they tend to turn on each other faster than Clint, Eli and Van Cleef in Good Bad and the Ugly.

    That being said I have no stomach for Red Sox fans who complain about the Yankees buying titles.

    The 2004 title was bought and one of the few successful mercenary teams. Only Trot and Youk (who didn’t even play in the World Series) were true products of the farm system (Varitek and Lowe were acquired as minor leaguers).

    If any team is guilty of “Just buying it” it was the 2004 Idiots.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they bought it. It was on my wish list… but teams of mercenaries tend to act like… well… mercenaries.

    (Think of the 2004 Lakers falling apart against the Pistons)

    [M, please accept my apology for bringing up the 2001 D'Backs and the 2004 Red Sox]

  347. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Doreen, now that you’re finished with the book, will you sell it to me for $10? ;)

  348. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    doreen

    did you learn anything from the book?

  349. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    AL, A-Rod was amazing in 2007.
    He was heads and shoulders the best player in baseball.

    He was horrific in the playoffs.

    That’s what I was talking about.
    In his last 16 playoff games he has fewer post season RBIs than Daisuke Matsusaka

    [Damn it! I'm not supposed to point out A-Rod's short comings! I'm still getting used to the rules]

  350. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    bru

    My recollection of the whole Papelbon back to the pen situation was that Papelbon was slated to start but Francona among others was concerned because they had no real closer. The next thing I heard was that they were going to move Papelbon back to the closer’s role. I remember hearing he wasn’t happy about it.

    The next think I heard was that Papelbon said he wanted to start, but when Francona told him the situation, he offered to go back to the pen. However, it seemed very much like spin at the time, to present a united front.

    That was my take on it at the time.

  351. m February 4th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    bru,

    I said he never “asked” to go back to closing. He was told. Of course he said 3 hours later, “I’ve always wanted to be a closer”.

    I’m sorry you have that opinion of me, especially since I go out of my way to be respectful of other’s opinions.

    I got snippy with you because you told me this: *you are in the minority on this issue,that should tell you something.* I thought it was quite rude.

  352. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    joltin’ joe -

    Yup. :)

    saucy -

    My husband wants to read it, then my brother-in-law. So, sorry, the book’s not available for re-sale! :)

  353. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    who cares about papelbon, go to the redsox blog

  354. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    saucy –

    Plus, I haven’t looked at the pictures yet. :)

  355. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    doreen

    what?

  356. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Eck was a great starter but he was a broken down starter by the end of his time with the Cubs.

    He also had a drinking problem and his wife ran off with Rick Manning.
    (If that doesn’t start a drinking problem, I don’t know what will!)

    I was living in the Bay Area when LaRussa made him a reliever in 1987.
    And it was considered a humiliation because at the time closers were also their own set up man and the A’s already had Jay Howell closing games.

    But Eck’s conversion was based on prolonging a career that looked like it was winding down.

    John Smoltz relieving had to do with his missing the 2000 seasondue to injuries and also the Braves didn’t have an option, especially after John Rocker lost his damn mind.

  357. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    joltin’ joe -

    I learned ya gotta read the book!

  358. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love February 4th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Doreen-thank you for your take/review on the book.

  359. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Sully,

    Good to have you join the blog. I enjoyed reading your post about the Home Grown vs Acquired Yanks. Minor quibbles with Scooter over Jeter and Clemens/Rickey not included on the acquired, but good post nonetheless. One thing it definitely made me realize is the talent/luck the Yanks have had developing Catchers. I mean Bill Dickey, Yogi, Elston Howard, Thurman, Posada is a pretty dang good run of catchers.

  360. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    bru

    I’m not trying to gang up on you just adding my 2 cents worth.

    I think what you are talking about is some of the spin that was put on it after they decided to put him in the pen. They insisted he was starting then changed their mind. I think some of it was because of need. Their other options were’nt very good.

  361. Tex's New Best Friend February 4th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Sully. No one seems to think Boston buys their teams.

    They act like Ortiz and Manny came up through their farm system. That Damon and Schilling were always red sox. Even Keith Foulke.

  362. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    the yanks changed in ’02 when the “core” left the team.
    there was no way to put the genie back in the bottle. in ’03 our world series was vs the redsox, but that team was flawed. torre won when he had the horses. a magician he was not. his time was up way before he quit. yet he left a sore loser.

  363. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    “The question is, Joe, why did you put yourself in a position to be made a wishy-washy offer?”

    Doreen-

    Do you think given what you’ve read that he possibly realized/calculated that the Yankees FO might behave exactly as they did, and thus put him in the position to come out looking the best out of it and the Yankees FO to look bad? Because until this book was published, that’s pretty much what happened.

    I have the book on hold at my library. As soon as they get it in and processed – I’m first on the list.

  364. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    doreen

    why?

  365. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    The catchers was the hardest part of the post for me.
    Obviously you need to put Yogi on there.
    And obviously you need to put Munson on there.

    That leaves one spot for Bill Dickey, Elston Howard and Jorge Posada

    YEEESH! That’s a classic “Damned if you do Damned if you don’t” decision.
    I went with Elston Howard, but clearly couldn’t go wrong with Dickey nor Posada

    Jeter vs Rizzuto. Look, I know people will dog pile on me for it, but just f—ing love the Scooter. Sue me.

    And as I wrote before I went with Mickey Rivers over Rickey based on his role with the first pennant winners of the Steinbrenner era.

    And Clemens… again as I wrote before, it was between David Cone, Tommy John, David Wells, Jimmy Key, Mike Mussina or Roger Clemens. I went with Cone.

    Clemens is on my Red Sox, Astros and Blue Jays team. His inflated butt gets lots of love on my blog

  366. saucY February 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    the pictures are probably the first part i’d read :lol:

  367. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    “[Damn it! I’m not supposed to point out A-Rod’s short comings! I’m still getting used to the rules]”

    Exactly what rules are you talking about, Sully?

    Its usually a free-for-all when it comes to ARod around here, lol.

  368. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Tex’s New Best Friend,

    Didn’t I just write a post where I said the 2004 Red Sox were the most bought World Series title in history?

    didn’t I just say they were a bunch of mercenaries where they had only one home grown player play in the World Series?

    Am I on Earth?

    Are we not men?

    We are DEVO

  369. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    That’s a nice blog you got over there, Sully.

    Where can I get a copy of Henry David Thoreau: Role Model?

  370. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    according to M, I have “Red Sox Fan on the Blog” rules

    1. Playful banter is good.
    2. Bringing up bad memories is bad.
    3. Only Yankee fans can point out A-rod’s shortcomings.

    I know I am a guest in your house.
    I’ll wipe my feet and make sure to bring a six pack and something to eat

  371. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
    greenberet

    eck was a .500 starter without his 20 win season. he pitched half his career as a starter, which half do you think got him into the hall?

    ————————————————————

    More than half of those teams were less than .500 teams when he was starting. 5 over, 6 under and 1 team at .500. Imagine his record as a Yankee or a Dodger during then.

  372. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    What the?

    How do you know about HDT: Role Model?

  373. PAT M. February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Doreen, Great feedback and more importantly you did a wanderful service to this forum….Some of the best I’ve read in the 2 plus years I’ve been hanging out here…..Splendid..I thank you

  374. rodg12 February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    ESPN Insider article (originating from Baseball Prospectus) suggesting the Yanks move Jeter to CF and sign Orlando Cabrera to play SS. Interesting read and interesting idea.

    http://tinyurl.com/awj5nb

  375. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Haha, fair enough Sully – I forgot about those RS fan rules. You’re in good company, they apply to Ray sox fan as well. :)

    I have been skimming over posts and missed the part about you being a RS Fan.

  376. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    To be fair GreenBeret, Eck played on some Red Sox teams where he had no shortage of run support but still finished at .300

    But he had a 4 or 5 year run where he was a terrific starter.

  377. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    .500 not .300

  378. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Angel-

    I don’t know, but I don’t think so.

    Torre wanted to make sure he was wanted, and that came up a couple of times in the book at various points during his tenure. But this was a natural end to his contract, and so I would have thought it would have been easy for him to say to them, I’ve had enough, I’m done. Thanks for the memories. I think that’s what the Yankees expected him to do. Neither one wanted to be the first to say goodbye, I guess.

  379. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    Angel, I try not to be obnoxious about it

    But like the story about the scorpion… I can’t stop my nature

  380. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    IMDB. You seem like a real interesting dude. I’m glad I posted the link earlier.

  381. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    I wrote a piece on my blog about the playoff teams in 2006 that didn’t win have all been haunted by coming up short and allowing a depleted Cardinals team win it

    If the Yankees won in 2006 I am 100% convinced Torre would have retired right then and there…

    A-Rod would be the new Reggie.
    Giambi, Mussina, Matsui, Sheffield and Big Unit would all be considered New York champions.

    Even the Jaret Wrights, Bobby Abreus and Kyle Farnsworths would be cheered as champs.

    And Wang, Cano and Cabrera would be the new nucleus of champion Yankees to build around. They would have learned how to win from champs like Bernie, Rivera, Jeter, and Posada (who of course learned from O’Neill, Key and Cone)

    The Torre era would have had the happy ending

    I am convinced Torre was like a stand up comic, staying on stage until he got that one last big laugh.

  382. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    To be fair GreenBeret, Eck played on some Red Sox teams where he had no shortage of run support but still finished at .300

    But he had a 4 or 5 year run where he was a terrific starter.

    ————————————————————

    Sox teams were 3 over, 2 under and 1 even with Eckersley. They had some ugly teams from in ’80, ’82 and ’83.

  383. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    It didn’t sound likely to me either, just wondering if that feeling came out in the book at all given that you said the tone changed somewhat. I tend to think that’s understandable – and a reflection of a lot of the fanbase.

    Before the book, I’d always thought that wanting a two year deal was more about him being wanted and not being seen to be a lame-duck manager (well, as much as that is possible with the Yankees) – I’m looking forward to reading it for myself.

    Did he specifically second-guess any moves that he made in games in the book?

  384. m February 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    So, Doreen.

    If I like happy endings, do I need to read “The Yankee Years” back to front?

  385. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Pat M -

    You’re welcome. You know I went into reading the book expecting the worst. There was a little of the worst and some unexpected and some that was new, but a lot that was not.

    Torre is a confident guy. Not a lot of second-guessing in this book. Two instances, really, one was the midges. The failures were laid at the feet of the people who get the players and the make-up of some of those players. The unexpected successes were due to the great ability of Joe Torre to get something out of nothing.

    joltin joe -

    You asked what I learned. One thing I learned is that those early teams were a perfect storm – the right guys, the right type of player with the right type of manager. We will never really know if that team could have done what they did without Torre. But all the stars were aligned just right.

  386. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    greenberet

    so you think eck went into the hall more for his starter years?

  387. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Oh GreenBeret… I remember those teams well.
    I remember following the Red Sox meant some nice 7-5 wins and meaningless Octobers

    When I was a kid I used to think this is how baseball worked:
    Each team plays 162 games
    At the end of the year, no matter how your team did, the Yankees, Royals, Phillies and Dodgers play in the playoffs.

  388. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    joltin joe -

    I also learned that contrary to popular belief that there is, indeed, crying in baseball, and lots of it!

  389. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    m, read the “Yankee Year” like the movie Momento

  390. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    m -

    HaHa!

  391. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
    greenberet

    so you think eck went into the hall more for his starter years?

    ————————————————————

    Did I say that? No, I didn’t. And, had Smoltz not gone to the bullpen, he wouldn’t be in the HOF because he wouldn’t have held up. They’re in bcause they were extremely successful at doing both.

  392. m February 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    Or like Vantage Point.

    Just keep going back to the beginning and starting over. That movie was decent, but painful to watch.

  393. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    “The failures were laid at the feet of the people who get the players and the make-up of some of those players. The unexpected successes were due to the great ability of Joe Torre to get something out of nothing.”

    That kind of irritates me a bit, if that’s the case, but I’m going to read it myself and see if I get the same feeling out of it. Not saying you’re wrong in your perceptions at all, but just that I want to try to read it with an open mind and few expectations, if possible.

  394. tim boat February 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    classic case of the team trading away a guy they were going to lose one way or another for anything they can get.

    Fryer is 23 years old and will probably never sniff the majors, all the idiot prospect huggers trying to project where and how he will fit in should stop wasting our time.

  395. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    seems like old hat. torre wrote this as a bitter old man.his ego got the best of him. he was not the star, he seemed to think he was. since when is the mgr the star. even casey knew that much. seems like not much new in the book but if you spend your $30 on it , i guess you can rationalize.

  396. Fran February 4th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Doreen – Thanks for the recaps and the insight.

  397. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Joltin’ Joe
    February 4th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
    seems like old hat. torre wrote this as a bitter old man.his ego got the best of him. he was not the star, he seemed to think he was. since when is the mgr the star. even casey knew that much. seems like not much new in the book but if you spend your $30 on it , i guess you can rationalize.

    ————————————————————

    Which shows just how much you really know. Stengel absolutely thought he was the star of that team. Read the stories about him. The players didn’t care as long as the media left them alone, and because they won.

  398. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    “but if you spend your $30 on it , i guess you can rationalize.”

    I won’t be rationalizing anything – I’m getting it from the library so it costs me nothing except a wait. But even if I was going to pay for it (and I still might if it turns out to be a book worth keeping) it wouldn’t change my opinion of it.

  399. Mark in Tampa February 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Re: Eckersley

    Of course you don’t have to be on a great team to have a winning record. One of the greatest seasons of all time was Steve Carlton in 1972: 27 and 10 for a team that won 59 games total that year. Of course, he would be the exception.

  400. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Angel -

    My perception. Read it and come to your own conclusions. :)

    Some things I read changed my initial perceptions. Some didn’t. It’s a good read, either way.

  401. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    greenberet

    smoltz won over 200 games as a starter and was 13-4 in post-season. seems like a good case for hall status, but you are right, the combination of starting and relieving is a powerful case, not many have accomplished.

  402. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    greenberet

    i know you know better, or at least you think you do.

  403. Joltin' Joe February 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    The great players will win in spite of the manager, is the point. The manager who thinks he willed his team to win is the loser.Mantle Maris, Howard, Berra, etc…would have won if you were the manager.

  404. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    Smoltz doesn’t have the regular season numbers of Maddux nor Glavine… but he was their superior in the post season.

    I think his stint as a great closer as well as being a big game pitcher puts him in the Hall.

    Here’s a question. The Braves never had a shortage of pitching.
    They always had another starter like Steve Avery, Charlie Liebrandt, Kent Mercker, Kevin Millwood or Denny Neagle who would also put up solid numbers.

    Plus their closers lost key games in the 1991 World Series, 1992 World Series, 1993 NLCS, 1996 World Series, 1998 NLCS, 1999 World Series and 2005 Division Series.

    I wonder if Smoltz was the closer if they Braves would have won more than 1 World Series.

    It’s all hindsight 20/20 and maybe Avery, Liebrandt et al wouldn’t have fared as well.
    But it is clear the main thing that kept Cox from winning more titles.

    Having the sure thing to close out a game is pretty important.

    Yankee fans, do you know how many leads the Yankee bullpen let up in the 1998 post season? Zero.

    I’m not talking about losing a game, I’m talking about the bullpen didn’t cough up a lead for a single inning. Not the 6th, 7th, or 8th.

    How about in 1999?
    Zilch

    In 2000?
    None.

    How’s about 2001?
    Just the 9th of game 7 of the World Series.

    History will much kinder to the Torre Yankees than the Cox Braves…
    Bullpen people… the bullpen

  405. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Joltin’ Joe

    Most of the time it is the manager winning because he has the horses.

    Every once in a while you have a manager who can push the right buttons (Lasorda in 1988… Hershiser didn’t pitch EVERY day!)

    And every once in a while you have a manager so inept, so stupid and so unworthy of being a manager that he screws up a team that is loaded with talent.

    (Did someone say Don Zimmer and the 1978 Red Sox?)

  406. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Sully

    I thought you was going to say Grady Little.

  407. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Sully

    I thought you was going to say Grady Little.

  408. PAT M. February 4th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    GB7, Casey was the most famous Mgr / coach in America…He was a household name, TV show’s ( what’s my line )…Everyone knew Casey…His popularity the player cheerished,as it kept the bright spot lights away from them a great deal…..Torre was so entrenced in the publis’s eye that the FO couldn’t axe him in fear of the public backlash…..Once the failures in October began to grow they seized that chance…Casey’s blunder in the 60 World Series and losing to the Pennant to Chicago in 59 just sealed his fate….GB7 is clearly right on this issue

  409. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I don’t hate Grady Little.
    Grady was basically the nicest AAA manager who was stupidly handed the keys to a Porsche.

    Grady wasn’t stupid. He just choked.
    I have no ill will against Grady. I bet he’s a great guy and I bet he’s an amazing bench coach.

    But a manager has to make tough calls.
    People who said he was fired for one game are not taking three things in mind:

    1) He made bonehead decisions like that all year.
    2) The Yankees couldn’t hit Timlin, Embree or Williamson all series and they needed 5 outs from 3 pitchers.
    3) It was a hell of a big game.

    Notice how the Dodgers imploded under Grady?
    Some AAA managers should remain AAA managers!

    Zimmer is another matter.
    He’s probably the only person in baseball I really hate.
    Like HATE.
    Like my friends know not to mention him around me.

    I don’t hate Derek Jeter. I dread him in a big spot, but I respect the hell out of him.

    I don’t hate Clemens or Bonds or even Canseco.

    I don’t hate A-Rod or even Paul O’Neill (do I hate O’Neill? No, I guess not. But I had to think about it.)

    But Zimmer.
    Pure.
    Unflinching.
    Vein Popping.
    Teeth Grinding.
    HATE.

  410. PAT M. February 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Joltin Joe..Then why did the Mantle era Yanks lose in 60, 63,64 under two different Mgrs….

  411. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    3 different, PAT M

    Stengel in 1960
    Houk in 63
    Berra in 64

  412. MaineYankee February 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Sully

    Yes that was a bad time to be a sox fan. I am suprised it took so long for them to win a WS. They had teams with enough talent to win.

  413. Nick in SF February 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    How did those bullpens get a chance to come into all those postseason games with leads to protect? Rotations matter too.

  414. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    My grandfather on the Italian side of my family was a big Yogi Berra fan and because of that a big Yankee fan.

    And he HATED Ralph Houk.
    He felt that Berra should have taken over as manager from Stengel and when the Yankees won in 1961 and 1962 he said they won inspite of Ralph Houk.

    He was elated when the Yankees made Berra manager in 1964 and crushed when they fired him after one season (and a 7 game loss in the World Series)

    When Casey brought Yogi over as a coach, grandpa became a Mets fan.
    When Billy brought Yogi back to the Yankees as a coach, grandpa became a Yankees fan again.

    Grandpa died before Berra’s 14 year stare down with Steinbrenner and his stint as a coach with the Houston Astros.

    No doubt grandpa would have been an Astros fan during that period of time

  415. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    Sully -

    I agree -

    I think history will be kinder to Torre. He and his teams accomplished a lot!

    But I don’t know that the Yankees owners will be kinder to him in the foreseeable future. ;)

  416. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    MaineYankee,

    They had a moron who put his own pride ahead of the good of the team managing.

    Seriously, F Zimmer

  417. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    What Bobby Cox did with his team was amazing… and when you look at how the cast of characters kept changing and yet they still made the playoffs year in an year out it was incredible.

    And yet he won fewer world series than the Tom Kelly Twins.

    Not that there is any shame to “only” winning 1 World Series.
    Leo Durocher and Earl Weaver only won one series and they are in the Hall of Fame.

  418. PAT M. February 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Sully, I always have blocked that 64 series in my mind…Yeah the Yogi / Johnny Keane didn’t sit well with me and most Yankee fans……By the way you wrote a great piece earlier today….Are you relatively new here…Great insight….

  419. Yankee Trader February 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Doreen-Thanks for your insight into the book. Don’t plan on buying it, but will read it from our library.

    Sully-Enjoyed your blog on the great Yankee teams.

    Feel better after listening to Mike Mussina’s interview with Mike Francesa. Mussina came across as very honest in a humble way

  420. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    Thanks PAT,

    Yeah I’m a newbie

  421. Tom February 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    New post

    :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

  422. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    I really wish I had heard Mussina’s interview, but I wanted to finish the book.

    Will it replay on YES tonight? Or does the WFAN website replay it somehow?

  423. Tarheelyank February 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Pat M
    Yeah Sully is new. He’s a Sox fan but, promises to behave. If not type ZIMMER, ZIMMER, ZIMMER, and he will implode.

  424. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Yankee Trader -

    I admire your patience. I couldn’t hold out. And I decided I didn’t want the relative discomfort of the B&N Cafe over my own little corner in my own little chair. :)

  425. Sully February 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    My head exploded like that dude from Scanners

  426. GreenBeret7 February 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Sully
    February 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
    Joltin’ Joe

    Most of the time it is the manager winning because he has the horses.

    Every once in a while you have a manager who can push the right buttons (Lasorda in 1988… Hershiser didn’t pitch EVERY day!)

    And every once in a while you have a manager so inept, so stupid and so unworthy of being a manager that he screws up a team that is loaded with talent.

    (Did someone say Don Zimmer and the 1978 Red Sox?)

    ————————————————————

    The ’78 Yanks and Red Sox were so evenly matched that they were carbon copies. The first half of the year, NYY had every injury possible. at the all-Star break, somehow, they all started getting healthy and the Red Soxwho didn’t have a hangnail in the first half, started getting beat up. uidry was incredible all year, but, the Yanks started to really move when Hunter came back in early August and pitched like CATFISH HUNTER. That’s how NYY caught Boston. Nobody expected Bucky F. Dent. Lemon or nobody else can explain how Bucky F. Dent and Brian Doyle pulled off what they did in the playoffs and series. Doyle played betterthan they could have ever expected from Willie Randolph and who ever expected Jim Spencer to replace Chris Chambliss? The playoffs and WS run was the real miracle of that season.

  427. S.A.-Brian "The Ninja" Cashman: Showing free agents lots of love February 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    Doreen-the WFAN website already has the Mussina interview up on their site. It’s on the left hand side.

  428. Doreen February 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Thanks, S.A. Headed there now.

  429. dennis-costanza(sox fan) February 4th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Sully.

    My goodness you have come out of the blocks in a sprint.

    This is a great blog with very, very, astute baseball fans.

    Just a few suggestions…

    1)Do not make your post about the Red Sox. If it is relevant to the current discussion then have it.

    2)Check your emotions at the door.

    3) Do not make your post about the Red Sox.

    4) Discuss any baseball topic and CB, SJ44, M, Wave, Randy, Fredo(he has been missing of late) Pat, Green Beret, Joe-LI, Al BK, Rob NY, Doreen,Nick SF(take a peek at his picks against the line and it may make you some dough) and of course Rebecca.. and so on will be more than pleased to engage in great conversation. Sorry for forgetting others.

    5) Do not make your posts about the Red Sox

    6) Lastly, Take a page out of Woody Allen’s book. Self deprication far exceeds self promotion.

    Again, just suggestions, not advice. Advice is expected to be taken and suggestions are from experience…

    Respectfully -dennis

  430. Zorin February 4th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Being a good kid doesn’t bring home championships…

  431. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing February 4th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    *sniff*

    Dennis forgot me. And we go way back to MarkF’s blog too. :-P

  432. Kevin O. February 5th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    The Brewers got FLEECED…. even if this guy the Yanks got never pans out, it was worth it, Wright is AAAA

  433. Brian February 5th, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Chase Wright accumulated more wins than anyone else on the Yankees (majors or minors) over the past 3 years. He knows how to pitch and has some talent, and is a lefty. The problem from what I read is his fastball sits in the high 80′s-90mph. He has been passed on the depth chart by many guys and probably would never get his chance in NY. That said, he may and I hope he does work out nicely for the Brewers as a back of the rotation starter. It looks like the Yankees got a useful piece back. The guy lead the Sally league in batting average and on base percentage last year, and by the way also playing against him in the sally league last year were Austin Romine and Jesus Montero, 2 of the Yankees best (top 5) position prospects. So while at a slightly older age, to ourperform those guys with the stick is no small feat.

  434. Reggie Boshes August 4th, 2014 at 8:43 am

    Anyways, many thanks for having me in this article.

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