Open up or no comment?
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 07, 2009 
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We are still awaiting word from Alex Rodriguez on his reaction to the news that his failed steroid test in 2003 has become public. SI’s report has been out there for most of today, and Rodriguez learned of the magazine’s story on Thursday. Clearly he is spending some time – correctly – figuring out what his next step should be.
To me, it’s obvious: Disclosure. Full disclosure, confession and, as much as possible, explanation. If A-Rod goes the Roger Clemens/Barry Bonds route on this, the stories and questions will never go away. If he takes the more open road (Andy Pettitte-ish), he’s got a chance of this not lingering for the entire season and being a distraction to him and everyone else in the clubhouse.
If it were me, I’d be as specific as possible the next time I talk to the media. I’d talk about what I did, when I did it and how I obtained it. I’d talk about how it made me feel and, hopefully, why I stopped. I’d answer all the questions people wanted to ask me.
The only way for A-Rod to avoid people continuing to try to turn over all the stones is to turn them over himself. If he lays out the entirety of his story, maybe he can weather this, at least for the time being. If he goes the Rocket Route, this is a story that could truly make a mess of the entire Yankees season.
You are 100% right. Alex has to address this head on. Otherwise, he will have an absolutely horrible season.
“I’d talk about how it made me feel and, hopefully, why I stopped.”
Maybe he didn’t stop. Maybe he’s thinking, oh crap, now what do I do? Do I keep taking the roids or stop altogether?
Granted it’s A-Rod’s life, but he should discuss his next move with the Yankees as well. The organization did not spend millions of dollars on great players to be overshadowed by one tainted player for years to come.
Sam, you’re right. He has no choice but to come clean so his career can continue and the Yankees can move on past this; without him and his teammates being greatly affected by all the questions season long.
They said on ESPNews that he is out of the country. Hmmm.
You’re right, he needs to be honest and straightforward if he has any hopes of getting past this, but legally, can he without jeopordizing himself somehow?
He just needs a day where he just lets it all out.
I was thinking about that – you know, what happens if he has been on steroids the entire time? The FO just gave him that huge contract. I doubt that he would decline to a horrible player, but maybe he would be a slightly above-avg type of guy.
This loser has been one headache after another, and what do we have to show for it: nothing but off the field nonsense ever since he got here.
How come A-Rod’s is the only name to come out, if there were more than 100 players that tested postiive in 2003?
Also, if this was confidential, why disclose it almost 6 years later
Agreed.
No point in running from this. I’ve read posts saying he can’t speak because of legal issues and stuff like that.
Garbage.
He’s got no friends in this battle.True he screwed himself but he also got screwed by all parties involved.
Funny but he’s always been considered a me-first player but in this case he really needs to take a me-first approach.
Fess up. Move on. Prove he’s still a great ballplayer without PED’s.
With nothing left to hide maybe he’ll finally relax enough to let his talent help the team win a championship.
A-Rod should fess up. As well as the other 103 players on that list who tested positive for steroids.
He should come totally clean, but he won’t. His lawyers and the union’s lawyers, not to mention Scott Boras, will tell him not to say anything incriminating or potentially incriminating of himself or anyone else, PR consequences be damned. The best you’re going to get from him is a half-admission like the one Giambi gave a few years ago.
he has to open up.
but can he?
if the union allowed it, he should have himself tested for PED’s publicly every week.
admit he made one mistake during a time when many players were making the same mistake and move on.
Pettitte took the open road? More like he took a right onto a dead end street and was left with only one way to go. When it was finally brought to light, he was forced to be open about it….twice. He was right, however, not to go thru some ridiculous and not at all credible denial.
As for Arod, I think he should definitely come clean, but am willing to buy into the idea that there are issues, be they legal or tied to the union, that preclude him from speaking on it now. But when the time is right, I’d hope he is very up front about this.
IMO, I feel that nothing he does in a NYY uniform will be legit.
Regardless of my opinion, he should keep hos mouth shut until the union gives him some direction as to the extent of the leak and what other shoe will drop and on whom it will land.
I lay this entire fiasco on the shoulders of Bumbling Bud the socialist. This should have been dealt with five years ago, before we had this wage and stat inflation.
Maybe Cashman would have three hundred million extra to deal with too.
Comical to me that somehow, of that 104 person list, one name leaks. One. Another Yankee. Its absolutely comical how retarded most of you all are. If I am alex I say “yeah, I did it, f all of u, here’s the rest of the confidential list and oh by the way, most players still are on the juice and the testing program is a joke regardless of whether they tell us in advance of a test or not. Madonna peed for me last week and I passed that test”. People who can’t see that this is a media driven yankee problem creating machine are too naïve. The Mitchell report, basically a yankee witchhunt, a sealed document, and somehow the seal gets cracked just enough for arods name to appear. Bunch of garbage, absolute garbage. Mlb could have pictures of david ortiz with a pile of needles in his rear and rest assured it would never “leak”, likely because the Boston media is protective of their players and the NY media is on a constant soap opera fest. pansys, all of you, keep wearing the blinders and pretending like roids aren’t rampant everywhere and then acting like its a story when someone is rumored to have started.
Until it’s clear he’s out of any legal jeopardy, he can’t specifically address it.
If he does, and he says one thing that is out of line of what the Feds have on him, he has even bigger problems.
Legal issues trump PR issues right now.
If and when he is in the clear legally, THEN he needs to be upfront about it.
SAM I AM-
“A-Rod, it’s called a kangaroo court, darnit!!! confess or else…”
If Alex is on PED’s now, hell, keep using!
his reputation is shot already. if he is only half the player he would be without PED’s and MLB isn’t detecting whatever he’s on, why not keep using?
MLB needs to get their act together. Improve testing procedures. Otherwise, I suggest all players use. They’ll make millions and put up great #s.
When there is great incentive to do something and very little at risk, why wouldn’t you do it?
Madonna peed for me last week and I passed that test”.
LMAO
A-Rod needs to come clean to have any chance of Yankee fan Forgiveness and also to someday get the media off his back,
But I do not believe he will and he will totally crack under the pressure. I see him hitting in the mid .250s this year with about 15 Home runs and 45 RBIs
Spoken like a true reporter. Shouldn’t this be about “an alleged failed drug test”?
what’s being forgotten in all of this is:
how will this affect fantasy baseball?
does Alex slip out of the first round???
This scenario seems to come up with celebrities all the time. And generally speaking the ones who own up and apologize and better yet show that they’ve learned something seem to fair better.
Generally speaking this country loves to give people a second chance. But nobody likes getting lied to or feeling like they don’t deserve an explanation.
. . . yet, I have the sneaking suspicion that A-rod will play this all wrong . . .
Sam
Did Selena tell him Thursday this was for a SI article she was breaking or could he have thought it was for the book she was writing? Unless you know that, the clock starts ticking this morning.
People are leaving the main thing out. If there were 104 names then why is it only Alex’s name linked? Is he suppose to be the guy who is always the scapegoat in the organization all the time? His personal life sure shouldn’t got that much attention in the sports world because players and other people get divorced every day and go through nasty ones.
Just when It’s Alex Rodriguez everyone knows he’s always a target because not only the New York sports media hate him but all the baseball fans including Yankee fans hate the guys guts and wish he would drop dead. It’s always Alex whether he asked for it or not to be judged publicly when you have the goons on Wall street that cheated so much that innocent people are losing their homes and their jobs. Yet only Arod is the world’s living and most hated person alive.
The guy can help find the cure for cancer and people will still hate him and find anything to focus their hatred on him. Ive lost all respect for Torre. When it was released that he had a book coming out who did they use as the scapegoat to get people interested. It was Alex being called Arod that made headline news. Next people will say Arod respsonsible for the tragic 9/11.
I just think it’s unfair that no matter what the news is, Alex Rod name is always used to bring negative attention. You are not going to sit here and tell me that the only name this broad saw was Alex Rodriguez out of 104 names. She knew it would gather interest and she and both SI saw how the rave was when it was mentioned to sell Torre’s book.
If anything ever happens to Arod, the baseball writers would no longer have anything to write about and the fans would get bored since they have no one else to hate anymore. The man is a walking dead man whether he is righteous or not. While there are those slinging shots at the guy 24/7, I’m sure no one can look in the mirror and say they are perfect. I know everyone thinks Jeter is the only guy in life that perfect with no skeletons in his closet and think Jeter will never do any wrong or that Jeter would ever utter a cuss word.
The thing is I want names of the other 104 players. If Arod name is on the list, provide a copy of the other names as well. If Alex is going to get criticism then all 104 should not just his name alone.
“I’d talk about how it made me feel and, hopefully, why I stopped.”
I hear what you’re saying, but your point rests on the assumption that he actually has stopped. Assuming all aspects of the report are true (including tipping), who’s to say he’s stopped at all?
“how will this affect fantasy baseball?”
Can’t worry about that. I’m too worried about how will this affect reality baseball. Alex isn’t the strongest mental guy on the planet. If he lets this get to him, we might as well bat him 8th again. That’s how productive he’ll be. Bowa was on MLB today and he seemed really concerned about how Alex would handle this. Not a good sign, IMO.
re-post:
randy, how goes your archive search? I went back and looked in the thread for the game in which Girardi started stretching Joba out, the one after that, and the one for Joba’s first start. I didn’t see anything too exciting from either one of us, though I did get a chuckle at the many, many boneheaded comments from ‘DYNASTY IS DESTINY’. Ah, good times.
“what’s being forgotten in all of this is:
how will this affect fantasy baseball?
does Alex slip out of the first round???”
Good call Boston Dave, who goes first overall this year? Pujols? Hanley?
What leagal issues…did he lie to a grand jury that we do not know of?…if not screw all of baseball and the union and fess up ASAP. It’s not like he will need another contract.
Tell everyone you tried it for a short period of time…not an exact amount of times…be vauge. This will blow over if he does talk soon.
Also, I would ask why my name was the only one leaked and not the other 103 and I would ask this to every journalist/media type that asked me about it and I would ask the government the same thing….so much for confidentiality when it comes to talking to the government.
As for me I could care less because I think the great majority did them.
For a short time now I have joined in the community adding comments here and there. I have not been profound, humorous or even entertaining but I will be quiet from this point on. I will wait for the season to begin and until then when something of real importance comes up, I will write my Senator, Congress person, Assembly person, etc… Over a year ago this was news and worthy of the energy and attention, now it’s just gossip, name calling and mental masturbation. Who cares — I don’t!
wow just wow, the guy is a walking disaster, he just cant keep himself off the front page. i would be pissed if i were him though and 103 other names skate clean and arent outed…..i think people need to shy away from yankee,redsox, mets fandemonium and just respect the fact it was a blight on base ball that effected all
“randy, how goes your archive search?”
nick in sf-
very slow. the blog is not set up to look backward.
Laura,
I was saying it playfully. I agree with your assessment.
I hope Alex has the opportunity to just come clean so that it can be put behind him.
He must admit what he did. He must prove that he is now clean.
randy l
February 7th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
“Wish I could hang here tonight because it’s where I feel I need to be rather than at a ballet. I’m sure you can understand this certainly has wrecked my day.”-trisha
gb7-
don’t you just hate it when you have to go to the ballet instead of doing what you really want?
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I quit going to the ballet when I found out that Baryishikov was on steroids.
Peter; It’s funny how NFL continues to get a pass… Did Rodney Harrison or Shawn Merriman come clean?
Anyway…
What does this Arod revelation say about the Mitchell Report?
Just proves how pathetic the whole Mitchell Report was… and how it was anything but thorough. They wasted about 30 million for what?
The investiagtion couldn’t even find… that one of the biggest stars in MLB… had ALREADY tested positive… Some gal doing a feature for SI can “accidentally” stumble across this information, but Mitchell and his PIs couldn’t sniff this out?
Why bother naking names at all (Mitchell Report)… SURE, the “big” names were already outed (Bonds, Sheff, Roger, Andy)… why pick on AAA players? On no-name scrubs?
So, either the report was bogus b/c they couldn’t even find out this obvious nonsense, or (even worse)… it buried Arod’s name (plus another 103 names) to protect the stars? Really nice Bud… really nice!
You know, the more I read, the sadder I get.
Or maybe it’ the playlist I’m listening to…
“People are leaving the main thing out. If there were 104 names then why is it only Alex’s name linked?”
It hasn’t been left out, but it’s not the main thing either.
This happened 6 years ago and it comes out now, and he has had tests since then that he has come out clean, so you know what forget about it, if he is not doing it since then forget about it. Plus where are the other names why is it just him.
Until it’s clear he’s out of any legal jeopardy, he can’t specifically address it.
If he does, and he says one thing that is out of line of what the Feds have on him, he has even bigger problems.
Legal issues trump PR issues right now.
If and when he is in the clear legally, THEN he needs to be upfront about it.
***********************************************************
^^^^ Yep, that.
randy: indeed. I just wanted to look a little out of curiosity and it was too annoying.
DENY! DENY! DENY!
Drama is going to follow Alex wherever he goes and he would be ret@rded to confess and plead guilty. People will believe whatever they want, so don’t hang yourself.
this just in –
George Mitchell is going to write a book “Mitchell Report II – The Yankee Years”
In it he will chronicle the steroid use of every Yankee from 1996 – 2008.
sources will remain anonynmous.
p.s. He may even do a third book on the 1977-1978 Yankees using greenies.
Steve
February 7th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
This happened 6 years ago and it comes out now, and he has had tests since then that he has come out clean, so you know what forget about it, if he is not doing it since then forget about it. Plus where are the other names why is it just him.
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Because this slug hasn’t been stalking anybody else for 5 years and because she has a book about Rodriguez coming out in May…..free publicity.
Doreen
It’s not the playlist because I’m not listening to it and I feel the same.
The title of the book is “Hit and Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez.”
I think that says quite a lot.
Whether Alex admits it or denies he did this. He will always get the a negative response.
When you are hated by the world what chance does this guy have even if he did this and admitted it.
Sometimes I think fans would show a serial killer more love than Arod.
I just wanted to respond to something you said in the last thread BP’s Brother. You said you expect to see people competing on an even playing field. That won’t ever happen. Ever. Even if by some miracle of the sun the union and all its players agreed the players would stop doing steroids, and actually did, some new guy would come in and look for an edge. He’d want more homers, so he could get more money, always.
Bigger, Faster, Stronger, means that every single athlete on the field of play is looking for a way to be better. Some folks will always be willing to look to chemicals for that, some of those chemicals against the law. That is the nature of all competitive sports from the High School level right on up. Find me a college team where you claim not one person is on the juice or has tried it and I’ll find the kid on that team who is.
The idea of an even playing field in sports is the same thing as the reasonable -man- person in law; fun to talk about but pure fiction in reality.
A musical version (no vocals) of “Over the Rainbow” is playing now. Should I switch to my acid rock playlist, or what? This is getting too melancholy for me!
Roberts & Torre should write a book together… “Breach: How to Effectively Violate Confidentiality in Baseball and Make Millions from Book Sales”
Can the players union tie his hands from saying anything until after their lawsuit?
First thing, Alex needs to get good legal advice. Make sure of what’s what, especially with regards to the Bonds’ investigation in California.
Then, when that’s cleared up, hold one press conference, maybe in the dugout, where he’s on “his own turf” and feels most comfortable, and answer the questions truthfully, and ‘fess up. Get it out of the way, maybe in a similar way that he handled the Jeter questions a few years ago. Announce that this will be the one and only forum he answers these questions, answer them all till the reporters’ exhaustion, and that’s it.
That might be the best way to handle this mess. That and having a monster year with a lot of testing to silence the skeptics.
Yes, he brought it on himself. But, it was 2003, and, if he comes clean, he’s entitled to redemption and forgiveness.
Babe Ruth’s legacy just continues to grow. He and Willie Mays will forever be remembered as the two greatest baseball players of all time.
This makes me think of Friday nights talk on here of all the great tv shows of the 60′s and 70′s.
We look back at those times with great memories and affiliation.
I look back at that baseball era and then think of this baseball era much like I do this tv era.
There is no comaparison and it’s no wonder I long for those old shows on Nickelodeon.
Elvis has left the building
** Drama is going to follow Alex wherever he goes and he would be ret@rded to confess and plead guilty. People will believe whatever they want, so don’t hang yourself. **
This is not the usual “drama” that follows Alex. This is a serious matter. It’s very different to me.
If it wasn’t banned when he tested positive, who cares. If he never tested positive after it was banned, who cares. If I was great at something and told there was a pill that could make me the greatest, would I do it? YES. As long as I wasn’t breaking the law. I’m sure that alot of my super star piers would be crankin also.
I have a great jazzed-up version of “Over the Rainbow” by Sarah Vaughn. And a cool acoustic-guitar/alt-indie version by Freedy Johnston. Yay for thinking about something else besides Arod’s failed 2003 test.
Maybe a ball play needs to write a tell-all book on so-called journalists detailing their lives of alcohol and drug abuse used for inspiration and steroid use to help them type faster and longer.
Doreen
I have Cher going around my head “if I could turn back time” Thats the only line I know. Maybe a little enter the sandman is in order.
damm this sucks i really shocked but im always gonna support arod it was a mistake and if he hasnt done it as a yankee its ok everyoone makes mistakes and this really sucks cuz arod the best player in baseball and the hardest working one
I’m with Nick, time to think/do something else.
My choice: Stop Making Sense by the Talking Heads.
Elvis has left the building
Thank god!!!
GB7 – Who would buy it?
If Alex did it and this isn’t some mistake he needs to admit it and do something fresh.
Tell the public why.
It would be refreshing to hear an athlete of his caliber tell us all why he felt to need to use a PED.
Was he insecure about his place in the game?
Did he feel he was slipping?
Did he feel he had to do it to keep up with the rest of baseball?
If Arod was open and candid without implicating anyone but himself he could win a PR blitz by being the athlete who tells us all what went on in his head that led him to risk his health and his reputation in the game for an edge when he was already signed to the biggest contract in history.
Maybe it was the pressure to live up to the contract. Maybe it was he admired the fact that Juan Gonzales had forearm like thighs.
I don’t know.
But what I’d like to hear is why.
If he can open himself up and tell us all that, I think he can do a tremendous amount of legwork towards repairing the damage he’s done with his fans.
“Information and documents relating to the results of the 2003 MLB testing program are both confidential and under seal by court orders. Anyone with knowledge of such documents who discloses their contents may be in violation of those court orders,” the union added.
If represented fairly but the union, judge’s don’t like their orders violated. Ms. Roberts may get a trip to CA she may not have planned on taking.
Alex should initially treat this as Giambi did. He should apologize for anyone he has hurt and he should just say that he is clean now and wants to put this behind him.
He should say that he is bound by the union to not discuss this and can not answer any questions in relations to a rumor related to confidential government information.
What else can he say?
We will all know what he is saying and then we can move on.
I’m with Tom and Nick.
The Yanks are my team. Arod is my third baseman. This broad can KMA!!!!!!!!!!
Tarheely, you are welcome but please leave Cher behind.
Doreen
February 7th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
A musical version (no vocals) of “Over the Rainbow” is playing now. Should I switch to my acid rock playlist, or what? This is getting too melancholy for me!
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Ferranti and Teicher have a great version, as does Bert Kaempfert.
In a somewhat different vein, liston to Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons version of “On The Good Ship Lollypop”.
You know who seems to be getting a free pass in this fiasco? The Texas Rangers, their management and owners. Look at how many players from that one team was doing steroids? Pudge. Palmeiro. Canseco. And now Alex. What the hell were they doing down there, making their own stuff? Any day now, someone is going to report that the Rangers have their own meth lab.
They need to be held accountable for providing an environment that clearly had the players believing that they could and almost had to use PEDs.
What behind? she’s to skinny to have one
YankeeRay
I hate to think I’m turning into my parents – you know – the old days were better kind of stuff.
Unfortunately, times HAVE changed, and while the human condition, and the mistakes that people make, have always been and will always be there, it sure did seem much more simple years ago.
But it’s always important to remember that not all the changes through the ages were bad. And I’m sure that the days that we were fondly reminiscing the other night would pale in comparison to the days gone by of the generation ahead of us.
But things move too fast now. Childhood lasts a shorter time. We are jaded. We who were children in the 60′s and teens in the 70′s have been hit and hit again. It’s a wonder anything surprises us anymore. And still, every time my faith in whatever ends up being misplaced, I still get the pit in the stomach feeling. And yet, faith doesn’t disappear altogether. That’s the hope. That’s what gives light to the future. That faith and hope doesn’t disappear in spite of all the disappointments along the way.
Way to philosophical for this ARod mess!
gb7-
somehow i think you know more about a Kalashnikov than Baryshnikov
ramar-
how’s the jungle?
that was my favorite tv show .
Trust me if Babe Ruth lived in this day and time with everyone trying to sell out each other on the internet, I’m sure there would be a lot of stories to tell. Back then, the game was just a game for family fun time and was one of the few pass time entertainments. Baseball bats weren’t being checked, baseballs and pitchers weren’t being questioned if they pitched a good game. People just watch the game for entertainment reasons.
Now the sports world has turned into a nasty tabloid gossip. Sports writers are now focusing more on the personal lives of players that either won’t give them an interview or trying break a nasty story for attention and money.
Gone is the love of the great american pass time. Now when you go to ESPN, it’s like watching shows like Entertainment Tonight or one of those gossip tabloids. Even Joe Torre is now Hollywood trash these days since moving out to the west coast. Next he’ll be writing a book about his run in with Britney Spears.
“Did he feel he had to do it to keep up with the rest of baseball?”
Sounds like he needed to do it to keep up with the rest of his team, the Texas “Steroids R Us” Rangers.
Et tu, Alex?
Joe from Long Island
February 7th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
GB7 – Who would buy it?
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All of the writers/journalists…just to see if there name was included in the Ernest Hemingway Report.
I’m listening to the Beatles Please Me record, Do You Want To Know a Secret? Good times, but I prefer Sgt. Pepper.
Correction: just to see if ***their*** name was
if i am arod, why should he talk to the reporters, his career is over because he got ratted out, i would never gave an interview to writer, at this point why help the hand that ended your career and being stupid enough to chear
Didn’t George Bush once own the Texas Rangers???!!
Hey – GB7 – Franki Valli and the 4 Seasons did On the Good Ship Lollipop? Seriously?!?
“Now the sports world has turned into a nasty tabloid gossip. Sports writers are now focusing more on the personal lives of players that either won’t give them an interview or trying break a nasty story for attention and money.”
Journalists and the media care about making money. They will do whatever sells. Joe Torre wrote his book to make money. Roberts is doing this to make money.
As long as people create an environment where this garbage sells by buying the books and watching the tv programs, they’ll keep doing it.
However, it’s a different story when the government is leaking information like this. That is inexcusable and IMO the biggest issue of all in this mess.
Doreen– Yes he did. And he should be the next commissioner of baseball. The guy is probably in the top 5 of living people i’d like to meet. He’s a cool guy just not the best man to run the country is all.
Gotta love a friend who has your back no matter what.
“This is a complete surprise,” Young said. “I don’t know when he was tested or what he was tested for, but my focus is on being completely supportive of Alex. We were good friends then and we are good friends now. He was my teammate and a great teammate. I have never had a teammate so incredibly supportive of me and my career as Alex.”
randy l
February 7th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
gb7-
somehow i think you know more about a Kalashnikov than Baryshnikov
ramar-
how’s the jungle?
that was my favorite tv show .
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I know a little about both. I was a Chicom Asault Rifle and sawed off, double barrel shotgun guy, myself.doub
It is the fans to which Alex is accountable for all this. We are stuck with him, good or bad, for a decade.
With this in mind, Alex should fund free Fridays at the stadium for the entire season.
Doreen
February 7th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Didn’t George Bush once own the Texas Rangers???!!
Hey – GB7 – Franki Valli and the 4 Seasons did On the Good Ship Lollipop? Seriously?!?
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Yeah, Doreen. It wasn’t bad, considering the song…goes quite well when riding a skate board.
Nick ok Cher is gone. It’s Bob Marley now. Redemption Song. “emancipate yourself from mental slavery” great line.
Look on the “positive” side – A-Rod said he has taken Cano and Cabrera under his wing. Maybe that means sharing his stash and they will have good years.
I think Alex name was leaked because he is the biggest name on the list.
Taking steroids was and is against the law. Back then, it was not against the “baseball law.”
Alex was booed at Yankee Stadium. I can just imagine what it will be like this year. Hope he isn’t too fragile.
Drinking some tea and looked in my cup. I saw a press conference, details, and lots of tears.
Get over it.
For gods sake. How many more stories on steriods and food do we need?
Every at bat,home run,the chant will be *A ROID*
A-Rod obviously should take the Pettitte/Giambi route but does anyone really think he will? I am eager to hear what he has to say but I cant really see him fully owning up to it. I hope I’m wrong though.
A-Rod obviously should take the Pettitte/Giambi route but does anyone really think he will? I am eager to hear what he has to say but I cant really see him fully owning up to it. I hope I’m wrong though.
I’m sure all of you saying get over it and who cares about steroids would be posting the same thing if Ortiz had been the name leaked. Hypocrites. A-Rod’s name is leaked because he is the best player in the game, some said best ever. And admitting it like Pettitte did will not help A-Rod like it did Andy. It won’t go away for himn like it did for lesser players. Clemens knew that that’s why he is denying it until the end.
*VINCE*
the chant will be,*JUICED.*
That Young quote on A-Rod was great. He didn’t tap dance around it and try to remain middle of the road or take the easy way by trashing him.
Grimsley– Just because you’re an equal opportunity hater doesn’t make those of us who don’t see steroids as the end of the world hypocrites. I’m pretty much positive that at least one guy on the 2 WS championship Red Sox was on the juice, who knows who it was, but there was also at least one on the Cards and Rox. C’est la vie.
I think that the fans at the stadium won’t be any different. No new boo-ers.
The road will be brutal.
Is it bad of me to be happy that Alex is with the DR team right now?
Alex can’t do the Jason, Andy, or Ortiz. It’s going to have to be the Alex.
*Boston Dave* if Aroid is on the Ped’s now *he’s going to*
*jail.*
I AM SO SICK OF THIS ROID CRAP.
CAN WE JUST CHOP OF SOME HEADS, LOCK UP SOME OTHERS AND GET ON WITH BASEBALL!!
How many years is it going to take before MLB finally gets this fixed and moves on?
Seriously….2003! that was 5 damned years ago! why not released test from 2000, 2001, 2002? Better yet….why not release test results from 1990-1999 next year?
“Grimsley—Just because you’re an equal opportunity hater doesn’t make those of us who don’t see steroids as the end of the world hypocrites. I’m pretty much positive that at least one guy on the 2 WS championship Red Sox was on the juice, who knows who it was, but there was also at least one on the Cards and Rox. C’est la vie.”
you’re right – i am equal opportunity hater on juicers. Just because everyone was doing it doesn’t make it right. and if the innocent have to be punished, go ahead- no HoF votes for anyone who played in the last 15 years. Fine by me. A-Rod is just a crushing blow to me. I thought he was the anti-Bonds and have defended him to friends as such. oh well. Wish i could be like most of you and bury my head in the sand and pretend 1998 was real and Clemens is a hero. Can’t do it.
I’m with you…
Truth is, IF he is totally open and honest..
This could strangely make him come-across as a re-born honest person.
“but there was also at least one on the Cards and”
Tony La Russa has been a roid magnet – no coincidence. I honsetly think Torre was Clueless Joe when it came to juice but not La Russa. Ankiel was the latest. I also think Chris Carpenter will soon be outed as a user during his Cy Young season. I guess everyone assumes pujols but who knows?
The Win4 lottery number tonight was 2003. Hmmm….
Jason Grimsley
February 7th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
“Grimsley—Just because you’re an equal opportunity hater doesn’t make those of us who don’t see steroids as the end of the world hypocrites. I’m pretty much positive that at least one guy on the 2 WS championship Red Sox was on the juice, who knows who it was, but there was also at least one on the Cards and Rox. C’est la vie.”
you’re right – i am equal opportunity hater on juicers. Just because everyone was doing it doesn’t make it right. and if the innocent have to be punished, go ahead- no HoF votes for anyone who played in the last 15 years. Fine by me. A-Rod is just a crushing blow to me. I thought he was the anti-Bonds and have defended him to friends as such. oh well. Wish i could be like most of you and bury my head in the sand and pretend 1998 was real and Clemens is a hero. Can’t do it.
————————————————————
Yeah, it’s crushed you so bad that you felt the need to invent a new name to spout stupidity. Not enough guts to own up? There are names for that….it’s called TROLL.
And if Alex did the full confessional, he would be the first to do so. So we wouldn’t know the reaction. But Americans are very forgiving.
Yankee fans hate fakes. Just saying.
Randy I, Thanks for the save …..
*AFRAUD REAL* surely you jest.-honest- oxymoron.
what kills me are the Red Sox fans thinking none of their players juiced up. It’s almost that everyone is looking for something to back lash the Yankees. That’s one reason I would not want Manny here.
I think there would be even more drama in the club house and don’t see Manny taking any orders he didn’t like from the captain. I don’t even think Yankees could get the guy to wear clean pinstripes. I think he would be worse distraction because he loves the attention but hates the media.
He also would object and knock down the elderly if they refuse to give him extra tickets. He would be more of a headache than Alex ever could.
I could also see Manny giving up on his team like he did the Red Sox when things didn’t go his way. Not sure if we want that type of distraction no matter what type if he’s a great hitter.
You call it burying my head in the sand I call it being realistic. If you think that you will ever get to a point where at least one person on most teams isn’t taking something to make him Bigger Faster Stronger you’re mistaken. That’s the world we live in, some people are willing to inject bull testosterone into their system so they can get an edge over the competition. For some people it’s the difference between a lifetime of healthcare and at least $380,000 a year or working at the factory. (which isn’t much of a lock these days) Either you accept that sad fact of life or you don’t watch the game; or maybe you just act as if it’s a huge surprise every time some star comes out. How can you be surprised after all American Andy Pettite did HGH and got it through a gimick getting it sent to his sick father. These athletes are just ordinary people.
Doreen
I think Selena Roberts played those numbers.
Joe was not clueless about roids.
gb:
do you own this blogg??
i didn’t think so.stop trying to police it then.keep your miserable opinions to yourself.
m
He can’t be the poster boy for MLB but he could be the poster boy for coming clean about the mess and educating the young players on what not to do/be. Not the legacy he was hoping for but a legacy all the same.
This won’t be allowed to twist in the wind for long. Not after the successful offseason the Yankees have had.
An appropriate time will be sooner than later.
Position players report on February 17 for physicals.
Void his contract. Sign Manny for 3yrs-75million.Pick up Joe Crede to play 3rd!
The only shot Alex has to create doubt in those reports is to call a press conference and DENY the accuracy of the report, then offer a self funded public testing of himself every 2-4 weeks throughout this coming season and state that…
“following my season which i will produce at the same elite level in which i have throughout my entire career, you will see through my testing that it has been achieved naturally, as it always has.”
if he has a great year he will cast some doubt on the reports, however, the risk is that in the event he repeats his 2008 performance he is helping the steroid argument.
…but its the only way he has a shot to create any doubt. otherwise, he will always be assumed guilty…
pat,
Yes. I see a major PR campaign. Alex would’ve done better to take me seriously before this happened.
I hope Girardi takes the young kids in the clubhouse aside and tells them that this kind of crap won’t be tolerated. Then Andy and Alex can give speeches.
when i found out my jaw literally droped, not only because A-rod who is someone who was going to break the homerun record the clean way, take steriods but that his freaken name out of the 100+ people was the one that got leaked
i am disappointed, and i hope alex goes about this the right way.
i know that one time or another players might have taken something that they shouldn’t have, why attack alex? so you’re willing to bring down someone elses life and legacy just to improve yours?? SAD.
being a yankee fan is like being in highschool all over again, drama drama drama.
What road did “Big G” take, Pete? You didn’t mention him. Giambi only came clean to the Feds because he was cornered and afraid of jail. Giambi didn’t hold a Pettitte-like press conference discussing the specifics. I don’t recall his any full disclosure or explanation on his part. A-Rod will get killed no matter what he does. He deserves the A-Fraud label for this — but before Alex there was G-Fraud, an MVP slugger with a new mega-million dollar contract who lied about steroid use. There are more parallels between A-Rod and Giambi than A-Rod and Pettitte/Clemens/Bonds. I guess “Big G” made a mess of a few Yankee seasons, huh?
Boras comment on the situation is alittle odd…
“In a worst-case scenario, if that were true, it was one season, and since then Alex has gotten the Good Housekeeping seal the last five years,” Boras told host Karl Ravech.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02.....153999.htm
Joe M
February 7th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
“what kills me are the Red Sox fans thinking none of their players juiced up. It’s almost that everyone is looking for something to back lash the Yankees. That’s one reason I would not want Manny here.”
Joe, none of the Sox fans I talk to are trying to say that none of the Red Sox players ever juiced up.
I would be surprised if none had actually.
GLove – I agree. Alex has to come clean, reveal his motivation for it, but most importantly, come clean. Answer everyone’s question, and then ask if they have any more. And then announce that it will be the last time he addresses it.
Laura – Absolutely. The Texas Rangers have some responsibility here. I don’t buy the “I had no idea” defense. Just like Beane and the Oakland A’s “had no idea” they were steroid central years ago. I remember reading in Moneyball that Beane said that he wasn’t concerned about a particular prospect’s lack of power – “they learn to have hit power once they get here”, or something to that effect. Gee, I wonder what he meant.
Travis C
February 7th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“The only shot Alex has to create doubt in those reports is to call a press conference and DENY the accuracy of the report,”
How did that strategy work out for Clemens?
The A-Fraud moniker will now stick – at least for ’09.
If A-Rod’s name was released from the Balco list, why not all the others!
The biggest part of this story isn’t that A-Rod took steroids. He’s on pace to break a lot of records, so he’s a more important name than a lot of other people on that list. Still, the claim that the players’ union was warning players of upcoming drug tests is much more important.
Personally, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not interested in outing everyone that’s used steroids. I don’t care about people “tarnishing” any of these records. The only reason I care about it at all is that future players shouldn’t feel that they need to take steroids to compete.
The league has been talking about having the toughest drug program in sports. If it turns out that these allegations are true, the program is a joke. The players’ union is going to have to answer some serious questions and if MLB knows about this, it’s an even bigger problem.
I think people are finally going to start realizing that the players aren’t the only ones responsible. Everyone in baseball has at least some of the blame.
2 things need to come of this. 1, MLB and the players’ union need to admit to what they did wrong in dealing with PEDs in baseball. 2, A real drug program run by a 3rd party without any conflicts of interest needs to be put in place.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....f=baseball
Potent stuff from Kepner.
ray (sox fan)
February 7th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Joe M
February 7th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
“what kills me are the Red Sox fans thinking none of their players juiced up. It’s almost that everyone is looking for something to back lash the Yankees. That’s one reason I would not want Manny here.”
Joe, none of the Sox fans I talk to are trying to say that none of the Red Sox players ever juiced up.
I would be surprised if none had actually.
…………………………….
The easy explanation. An extremely high percentage of Red Socks fans are delusional and gullible. Easily led by the ears.
So this “writer” has said that there are over 100 other names but she is going to let someone else take over that whole thing… See, this is the part that really ticks me off. Why is only arods name coming out and now the other 100?? And ppl wonder why this looks like a damn witch hunt. Its obvious that this is the most poorly plan and run investigation by our government in some time.
And that moron, Selens started this: “Because the survey testing that took place in 2003 was intended to be non-disciplinary and anonymous, we can not make any comment on the accuracy of this report as it pertains to the player named” and now one has to wonder why the anonymity of these tests flew out the window as soon as it became detrimental to the player to have their name on the test. So when the players needed these privacy acts and al this other horse crap most, is the same time these bogus laws go out the window. Great! Its so perfect that the US government makes the laws but then, doesnt have to follow their own laws. Why should we follow them if they cant?? Set a damn example here will ya?
[ray (sox fan) February 7th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Travis C
February 7th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“The only shot Alex has to create doubt in those reports is to call a press conference and DENY the accuracy of the report,”
How did that strategy work out for Clemens?]
i dont remember clemens doing the following… did i miss something with Clemens Ray?
“(…then offer a self funded public testing of himself every 2-4 weeks throughout this coming season and state that…
“following my season which i will produce at the same elite level in which i have throughout my entire career, you will see through my testing that it has been achieved naturally, as it always has.”)”
The Couric interview coupled with the leaks could bring an appearance under oath.
That could be the best thing. Grant him immunity and let him spill his guts. Then he can apologize.
Nine more years of this.And now any championship with Rodriguez taints our Championship.Sad.
We are screwed with A-Rod.
m: were you upset before that CMW will suppsedly be the #3 and not the #2, or…?
psst…the Kepner link has quotes from Anonymous Yankee Sources.
How does it taint a championship? I am sure there were plenty of players on the 96, 98, 99, and 2000 teams that did steroids. Plus Im sure the same can be said about any of the other teams. The Yankees are not alone in this steroid infested era.
What are you talking about, Nick?
arod cant deny unless he is in fact, innocent. Otherwise, he has to fess up. The good thing is that he can lie his butt off about how many times he did it and no one will ever know. tHE PROBLEM is that no matter what he says, not too many ppl will believe him because there is no way to prove how many times he has done the stuff. Most players go with once or a few times – i would go with a little more than that to make it sound more believable but no more than 10 times. And say that each time, it was to recover from some injury to get back to the team. I mean everything going on around the acquisition of these documents stinks to high hell so arod might as well lie about his use as long as everyone else is taking the low road. No one can prove he is innocent anymore but no one can prove how guilty he is – that is the only thing arod has going for him right now.
m: in an earlier thread, you posted some quote about the pitching rotation that someone said Girardi was leaning towards and said it made you sad. I wondered why.
ray (sox fan)
February 7th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Joe M
February 7th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
“what kills me are the Red Sox fans thinking none of their players juiced up. It’s almost that everyone is looking for something to back lash the Yankees. That’s one reason I would not want Manny here.”
Joe, none of the Sox fans I talk to are trying to say that none of the Red Sox players ever juiced up.
I would be surprised if none had actually.
————————————————————
The fact is, though, Ray is that they only gave up three players, and two of them were less than below average players, long gone from the baseball scene, Paxton Crawford (who gave himself up), Manny Alexander and Mo Vaughn. That report was hardly unbiased, since they never left NY to investigate other teams. The only names they got was from previous investigations and reports and McNamee and Radomski.
m
I was thinking a Costas sit down for the mea culpa.
Bet there might be a few players out there who hope he doesn’t spill his guts.
Re: the Neyer piece: A-Rod didn’t need to do steroids – he was born with incredible talent and work eithic. I don’t get it, but maybe that’s because I’m not an athlete. These guys have to be hyper-competitive in order to make it to the major leagues – they are always in competition, with themselves (to be better than they are ) or with other players. If you’re a borderline major leaguer, you want to be a star; if you’re a star, you want to be a HOFer…. There’s still no excuse for cheating – if you don’t do something legitimately, then it’s worthless – but I guess it’s an explanation.
As to what he should do, I prefer that he do what Andy did: open up once and then that’s it. If he handles this like Roger, he’s dead and so are the Yankees. They may be dead anyway. His teammates are probably PO’d at him now and, even if they aren’t, I don’t see him having a good year. This season is going to be even worse than last year – I can’t believe it’s even possible.
Doreen,
You are going to love Jane Heller’s piece in the Times tomorrow.
Here’s the link if you want the spoiler.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....f=baseball
(the tarot reader irritated me with her reading on AJ)
“Randy I, Thanks for the save …..”
pat m-
no problem. i’m tempted to tell stories sometimes , but you just can’t past a point. i’m sure sj44 has to constantly censure himself.
if we ever get together to play golf, then we’ll hear some good stories.
Nick,
Pshaw. The whole Alex made me emotional. But that rotation made me happy. Go back and read it.
You’re such a guy.
I read it, that’s why I asked! Sorry.
What does “Dayum” mean? It’s like “oh, snap. i can’t believe this is our rotation”
Check out the Heller piece I linked. Very auspicious, indeed!
Besty,
Geez, usually im the pessimistic one in here. We still had the best off season by far of any team in the majors and got two of the top twnety best player in the game on the team. We have a staff full of potential aces, a lineup full of stars and a very young and talented pen. Even if arod doesnt win another mvp, we will still make it to the playoffs easily. This doesnt change any of that. And arod may ;let this get to him but he will still hit lwith the best in the game. You are freaking out over nothing…
m -
We just halted the weekend delivery of the NY Times, so I thank you for that!
And, oh, I soooooo want to believe!
(I once had a deck of Tarot cards, but ended up getting rid of them – I didn’t want to tempt the fates and I had had a wicked experience with a Ouija board once.)
m -
I wish she had asked about ARod.
Interesting article by Tyler Kepner (see above link). Kepner’s a good reporter.
It’s a sad piece. It describes Alex as being taken down by society’s displeasure with him, for what – a desire for more money? Isn’t that the American way? I don’t see Springsteen, Paul McCartney, Joe the Plumber, or anyone else turning down dollars. Why does Alex Rodriguez get penalized for it?
Mind you, I am not excusing his alleged steroid use.
It’s just that Kepner describes someone who, for all his success and celebrity, has been beaten down for doing what many others have done, many others who have not suffered any embarrassment.
No wonder he may be bitter. (Does money make anyone immune to that emotion?)
Ah, the great and mighty men of the media DEMAND that A-Rod confess….forget the fact that he MAY be innocent….Just satisfy the hunger of the wolves that call themselves journalists and COME CLEAN….What a bunch of crap…WE WAN’T THE TRUTH !….BS, always BS is the media stance when a story breaks….IMPOSSIBLE that the information could be wrong…..HANG HIM UP BY HIS TOES…..STONE THE BASTAGE !!….OFF WITH HIS HEAD !!!…..I am so sick of all of this holier than thou garbage….The media is only happen when figures like A-Rod are brought down….HAPPY DAY for all the REPORTERS TODAY !….You all should FESS UP ABOUT YOUR GLEE and declare an official VULTURE HOLIDAY !
Couldn’t agree with you more. I can respect accountability. The only problem is what if he truly didn’t do it. If that was the truth and he states it, the story will linger all season as you mention anyway.
Who knows what you mean half the time! But I too am pleased with our rotation. Can’t wait to see it on the field of play.
Well, we do know one thing: We grossly overpaid for this guy last year. No way he gets a 10-year deal from anyone with half a brain with this on his record. The homerun chase was the big reason why we were supposed to be excited about watching this guy into his 40′s, now even the Yankees are conceding it’s irrelevant.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....f=baseball
“His legacy, now, is gone.”
Sheesh, Kepner really killed A-Rod……and absolutely unfairly as far as the Yankees not having won with him. I’m sorry I read this piece as I thought Kepner was above this. Sure, Tyler – the only reason the Yankees haven’t won is because Alex lacks intangibles. Sickening.
Joe from LI -
I mean it, every time I read another article, I just feel more melancholy.
Alex Rodriguez should have been on top of the world. Just sad.
——————————————————————————————
“The fact is, though, Ray is that they only gave up three players, and two of them were less than below average players, long gone from the baseball scene,”
Good evening GB. I actually agree with you that the Mitchell report is biased and not complete.
My comments about Sox fans not trying to say that all the Sox players are clean was in the context of my daily conversations with Sox fans. I just don’t think that a lot of Sox fans would try to argue that the Red Sox have any fewer “juiced” players than other teams. I could be wrong.
“If he handles this like Roger, he’s dead and so are the Yankees. They may be dead anyway. His teammates are probably PO’d at him now and, even if they aren’t, I don’t see him having a good year. This season is going to be even worse than last year – I can’t believe it’s even possible.”
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Put away all sharp objects!
Come on, get a grip.
Betsy,
I don’t think he meant it that way.
Just that Alex’s postseason struggles are perpetuating themselves. He’s reinforcing the theory that he struggles under pressure.
But IMO, he puts a lot of pressure on himself. When this is all said and done, Alex might be better off. He was always trying to cultivate a certain image, when we just wanted him to worry about baseball.
Jason,
absolutely, in the minds of a lot of people alex is guilty until proven innocent. but even if he was innocent would everyone beleive him. nope. if he is innocent then he should sue selena and SI for slander. but i dont see that happening because sadly, hes most likely not innocent.
I wanna give Alex a hug yet at the same time I wanna shake him and scream at him.
We will survive.
So I guess we are no longer talking about the Torre book? Some good came from today’s mess.
Joe, I thought that was a nasty piece by Kepner, who I normally like. It’s hard to take him seriously when he kills Alex for not leading the Yankees to any titles; is he kidding? What is this, a one man show? What happened to Posada’s intangibles? Did they just disappear after 2000? Alex deserves to be criticized for taking steriods…..he does not deserve to be criticized for failing to compensate for miserable pitching, hitting and defense in the past several post-seasons.
ray,
Be afraid. Very afraid. We traded for the “stache”.
No, not Giambi. Adam Morrison. lol.
ray (sox fan)
February 7th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
——————————————————————————————
“The fact is, though, Ray is that they only gave up three players, and two of them were less than below average players, long gone from the baseball scene,”
Good evening GB. I actually agree with you that the Mitchell report is biased and not complete.
My comments about Sox fans not trying to say that all the Sox players are clean was in the context of my daily conversations with Sox fans. I just don’t think that a lot of Sox fans would try to argue that the Red Sox have any fewer “juiced” players than other teams. I could be wrong.
————————————————————
Evening, Ray. It’s a bummer of a day.
The real investigation that should be ongoing is what exactly it was that Mitchell did that cost MLB $22 million?
Most Sox fans will never admit to their teams being less than snow-white virgins.
UNRELATED QUESTION: Does anyone know when season tickets are mailed out?
The way some of you are talking its like we just signed pavano to a ten year 300 mil deal or something. Pleaase, its not nearly as bad as some are making it out to seem. Luckly, it happened in february so if arod isnt a total idiot about it, most of the story will fade by april and the start of the season. Also, arod is used to being destroyed from the media at this point. I think he is used to it already – this isnt much different than any other year in terms of how many times arod will get railed on in the next four weeks. And maybe this will slightly effect arods season but it certainly wont impact the whole team and last time i checked, the yanks are a lot more than just arod. I still think arod will have a big year and now has even more incentive to do well to prove that it wasnt anabolic steroids that makes him the best in the game because im sure its not. Some ppl here need to get some perspective.
I’m surprised the Cashman haters haven’t found this quote yet –
“Alex is a quick healer,” GM Brian Cashman said.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04.....107593.htm
In the post 1998 witch-hunt baseball mentality, Cashman is guilty! Burn him at the stake. Everyone KNOWS how you become a “quick healer”.
You’d be surprised the names that come up when you do a google hit on on baseball and “quick healer” or “fast healer”.
Soriano, Aaron Boone, Pujols. Even Bo Jackson admitted he was a fast healer all the way back in 1992!
Of course, Red Sox players are absent from the fast healer list. Only after they left Boston did they ever admit to being a quick healer…lol.
You know, the contract is the contract and if he can maintain his quality of play, he still stands to break those records and earn that money. Unless the contract explicitly states that he was ped-free while doing it (which probably didn’t/couldn’t), nothing changes for him in that regard.
And time will tell how all these players are regarded. If it was as widespread as we fear, then, clearly he was on a level (though unclean, as someone stated) playing field. They (MLB) can’t pretend that it was a handful of players having an edge. And frankly, someone needs to get out there just exactly how many mediocre players were on the stuff, for two reasons. One, to show that steroids cannot give you talent you don’t already have; and two, to show young people that it’s not steroids that make people successful. It may make an already talented person go over the top, but they can’t give you what you don’t have. (And I can’t believe I’m typing that!)
All along-winded way of saying that ARod should continue to play as if this didn’t happen. (And I do understand he may not be able to due to the distractions.)
Doreen – Part of it, for me, is the issue of being fair. Not just all players being PED-free, but the issue of only releasing one name, the most famous name, and letting everyone else who took part remain unknown.
And part of it is the little kid in me, at the ripe age of 54, still being disappointed. The loss of innocence that is a necessary corollary of all this stuff.
This – and I don’t mean just Alex’s alleged part in this – but this whole PED business is a tragedy. Not like the loss of life, let’s not get so dramatic as that, but the loss of innocence. That’s still pretty significant.
Maybe I’m still too much little kid.
Randy I, I’m surprised with the Alex revelation and then again I’m not completely shocked……Anyone who thinks that more than 20 % of the ballpalyer from let’s say 95 thru 04 was completely clean is blind or in denial…..What the real pisser is how this came out and how the union failed it’s mem,bership by not getting the results destroyed…….
Jerry-
Usually they get sent out in March but being as the Yankees have not finished their relocation program it could be late March asthe season opener isnt until mid April. They usualy get sent ups overnight or second day with signature required
Thanks Gayle.
DT
This situation calls for a letter.
how in da world did selena roberts see arod on thursday i florida if he was out the country since monday
Betsy – I see you’re point, and I agree. There’s obviously a lot more – or a lack of pitching, to be more specific – behind the lack of championships with Alex. But Kepner is right in saying that Alex has been beaten to death over the years. My impression is that he was a lot happier as a kid, before the fame, money, marriage – before what many of us wish for.
Joe from LI -
Yes, I know what you mean. I keep telling myself I’m a grown-up and I shouldn’t still be getting disillusioned. Every year, or more, it’s something else. And maybe it’s a good thing I still get that sickened feeling, because it means I haven’t become hard and cynical.
where is the redsox players none of them ever get released for taking roids
dave,
seriously? you really think the backlash isnt going to be bad in april?
what if alex starts off slow? questions. What if the yankees in general start off slow? more questions.
basically, the ny media + arod + steriods= a god damn circus.
M, all Kepner said in the article was what a whiner Alex is. I really think he meant to place all the blame for the Yankees’ post-season failures on the Alex.
It doesn’t matter. From hereon out, I will be avoiding all articles on A-Rod and the Yankees. The media hated Alex before, they’ll hate him even more now. I’d rather avoid them altogether and save myself a lot of grief and aggravation.
In the meantime, I have to find a way to care about this season again. ST is going to suck. Tex will be bombarded with questions about Alex, so will Jeter, etc……I really, really think Alex needs to open up once and for all, but I don’t think he will. He’s just not that type of guy and, if he’s close again with Boras, Boras won’t let him.
Pat M
I agree. At this point, the Union needs to something big for Mr Arod.
Travis C
February 7th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
The only shot Alex has to create doubt in those reports is to call a press conference and DENY the accuracy of the report.
Well Boras, is a weasel. I could hear him now.
“the reporter asked if there was an A. Rodriguez on the report. The informants said yes, there was “a Rodriguez”. Now there are plenty of Rodriguez’ in baseball. My client is being unfairly tried in the court of public opinion. It’s not his fault his last name isn’t Stankiewicz”
Besides being a great ballplayer AROD can also talk,I’m sure he will not shy away from this and lay it on the line…the Andy route is the way to go
heres a recent pik off arod in the dominican republic with manager felipe alou getting redy for da basbeall classic
http://lidom.com/images/a_rodr.....ientos.jpg
Alex would be stupid to go the Clemens route.
If they put Martha Stewart in jail, they’ll put Alex in and throw away the key!
Joe, I agree that Alex has been beaten down and I don’t blame him for being bitter. I think he’s basically a good guy, so after his playing career is over, he can do many interesting and productive things with his life that don’t have anything to do with MLB. He likes working with the young kids, like Cano and Melky – and didn’t he mentor some young international star? I forget his name, but it was somewhere in Florida. Maybe he can do that when he retires, mentor young kids..start a baseball academy. Whatever Alex wants to do, he can do. I wouldn’t blame him at all if he never set foot on a MLB diamond again after he retires. He shot himself in the foot with the steroids, but people hating on him for making $$, etc…….who needs them? I’m angry at him now and darn frustrated, but I like Alex. I hope he finds happiness after he leaves the game.
I’m starting to tear up now, lol – I’m angry, frustrated and sad at the same time.
Betsy– You’ll watch the Yankees. I think you love them too much not to. Frankly, baseball means more than any one player, book, or era. You watch because it means all of those other times and people and memories for you; and frankly, I think you watch to remember. Just like I do. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s as good a reason as I could imagine.
I actually think this story could turn out to be a huge plus for A Rod and the team. It all depends on how he handles it.
Going into 2007 A Rod needed a big year. He wanted to opt-out. He wanted that next huge deal. What happened? He put up a MONSTER year and was the league MVP, getting big hits all year. He blocked out the distractions and pulverized the ball.
Alex is very concerned with his place in the game. He frets over how the public perceives him.
IMO whether he denies the report or admits to using in 2003 won’t matter as much as what he does going forward.
Why does everyone care so much about A Rod and steroids? Why Bonds? Why Clemens?
Why doesn’t the public care about the average baseball player? The offensive lineman or the safeties in football?
To me its sinple. Its all about the NUMBERS. Baseball is the one sport where stats are such a huge measure of greatness.
What Alex needs to do is prove that he is STILL a dominant player… in 2009…. when there is better testing. Alex needs to hit 45-50 HRs, drive in 140, lead the team deep into the playoffs, and prove he is clean at the same time.
IMO A Rod didn’t do steroids his whole career. Maybe there was a time, before testing, when he did use. But his body hasn’t broke down. His head isn’t huge. His body isn’t cartoonish.
After PEDs were banned in baseball you have to believe Alex wouldn’t risk getting caught. His legacy matters too much. His place in the game.
The only thing throwing a wrench into this theory is Orza. If he is really tipping off players then this thing is WAY dirtier than most thought. But could a few weeks warning be enough to clear your system of PEDs? Doubtful. A Rod knew he could test positive even with the warnings.
At least for me, I hope he’s been clean since PEDs were banned. My gut tells he he has. And to me, right or wrong, that’s what matters most. The guy won 2 MVPs while clean. He’s a great player with or without the roids. I hope.
This is the worst news I’ve gotten since the death of a grandparent.
The season will be a tumultuous, turbulent, whirlwind now. It is time for Derek Jeter to cement himself again as the leader and most important player on this team.
We need to overcome Alex Rodriguez and take the Yankees back from him. This is going to haunt us for some time… that contract was a really, really bad idea.
We should try to argue for his contract being voided with the steroid allegation.
You gotta have faith,
Well, I think the story will have cooled down by april. I mean it is over a month and a half away. Everything that could be said will be said about twenty times at that point. And this is just my own opinion but the yanks have a lot of other stories going on -FIRST YEAR IN THE NEW STADIUM, how cc and tex adjust to NY, how job does in his first “full season”, how cano and swisher bounce back, how the yanks respond to the first year out of the playoffs in over a decade. I just think that ppl are pretending like this means the season is over for the yanks and i dont think it will have all that much impact on the actual season;. And the yanks start off slow every single season these days it seems so I dunno who will attribute that to arod taking roids in 2003. This stuff is all so meaningless in the grand scheme. I am positive that come october, this stuff will just be a distant bad memory. And the yanks will NOT let this get in the way over october baseball!!
overreact much … Yea arod taking roids in 2003 and one of your loved ones dying. Umm, that is what i meant by perspective guy. This is not even close to the end of the world. This team is too good to not make it to the playoffs because of some crap that happened six plus years ago.Some of You guys are being ridiculous.
Betsy
February 7th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Joe, I agree that Alex has been beaten down and I don’t blame him for being bitter. I think he’s basically a good guy, so after his playing career is over, he can do many interesting and productive things with his life that don’t have anything to do with MLB. He likes working with the young kids, like Cano and Melky – and didn’t he mentor some young international star? I forget his name, but it was somewhere in Florida. Maybe he can do that when he retires, mentor young kids..start a baseball academy. Whatever Alex wants to do, he can do. I wouldn’t blame him at all if he never set foot on a MLB diamond again after he retires. He shot himself in the foot with the steroids, but people hating on him for making $$, etc…….who needs them? I’m angry at him now and darn frustrated, but I like Alex. I hope he finds happiness after he leaves the game.
I’m starting to tear up now, lol – I’m angry, frustrated and sad at the same time.
————————————————————
He spent the last 2-3 years working out with Yonder Alonzo, from the U of Miami and the Pirates first round pick this past draft.
Since the death of a grandparent…. the worst since…
read much?
Guys, there’s only one thing to do…Plan a trip to Tampa for ST. My wife’s booking the hotel, and I think I’ll join her. Nothing like ST baseball in the Florida sun to improve my mood.
Baseball is like that. Thank Goodness!
dave sorta has a point.
I think the fans will be jacked to see Teixeira everyday. CC, AJ, Wang back-to-back-to-back.
The news cycle on this will depend on any legal issues. But after Alex says he’s sorry, it should die off quickly. If he doesn’t say anything, it’ll last as long as he wants it to.
How much rallying will there be in the clubhouse now? What Alex says and when he says it could determine that. The players want it to go away. Make it go away, and they’ll be cool.
what arod has to do have a very productive season 40 to 50 homeruns drive in over 120 help the yanks win the 27 world championship im not gonna lie it bothers me cuz hes ma favorite player and now i noe hes gonna get harrased with this that hes a cheater and all that im bhing arod wen i go to the stadium ima rock the jersey and support him
Dave I completely agree.
First year in the new stadium. Tex, CC, and Burnett on board. This should be a happy time.
Instead people are saying the season is “ruined” and “tainted” because a player is alleged to have failed a test 6 freaking years ago when PEDs weren’t even banned (at least you couldn’t be disciplined for using back then).
I hope Alex uses all this garbage as fuel and channels his inner fury and rips the cover off the ball this year.
I, for one, will be giving him a standing ovation.
Joe from Long Island
ur soo luckyyy u going oba there for spring training stuck in school for this marking period and have spring vacation in april dis suckss
A-Rod is going to have to say something like “I can’t comment right now, but I will at some point and then I will put all my cards on the table.”
How much trouble is he in and with whom?
1) Seems like he’s not in violation of any MLB disciplinary rules or regs. What is being reported as of now is a 2003 event. While illegal and contrary to MLB policy, there was no agreed penalty/disciplinary scheme in place for steroid use until later. But see, below, the “Tip Off” story. This may be only the tip of the iceberg.
2) Barring any specific Yankee contract language giving the team an “out” in the event of steroid use (now or ever) – and it seems there is no such language in there – A-Rod’s most serious troubles are not with the Yankees. The Yankees are stuck with him and will have to learn to live with the fall out for the next ten or so years.
3) The Feds and ambitious local prosecutors are another story. As SJ correctly intimated earlier this evening, until A-Rod’s legal team determines the last time A-Rod used, bought, possessed, etc., anabolic steroids or other contraband, and then calculates the statute of limitations on prosecution for any applicable crimes, A-Rod doesn’t have any idea what jeopardy he may be in. This calculating and debriefing with counsel and his PR team is probably why A-Rod did not tip off the Yankees for two days. From a lawyer’s perspective, cold-hearted SOBs that we are, this is too serious a matter to allow for a courtesy call to Cashman before they know better how much legal (read: criminal) exposure Rod has. Right now A-Rod needs to take care of A-Rod, not the team. Until the threat of criminal jeopardy is ironed out, this has to be treated by team A-Rod as a potentially very serious situation.
4) Unfortunately, this story has long legs. The “tip-off” branch of this story – did Orza or anyone else give certain players information intended to defeat the testing program – will keep editors and reporters on this topic 24/7 until there is a break in this part of the story. And when that break comes, if Congress isn’t already involved, they will be.
5) Ah, yes. The US Congress. Look for Orza and A-Rod to be getting subpoenas if Congress weighs in again. And there is a 100% chance of that happening, IMO. What better way to change the topic from the ever deepening recession? Obama will even get into the act.
MLB TV couldn’t have dreamed of a better story to launch them into prosperity in their first season. First the Torre book and now a real mushroom cloud.
Don’t want a WS,with AROD.Please let him get hurt for the seasn. The Yankees celebration will be overshadowed.
dave ur 100% right this happen wen this stuff wasnt even banned we should cheer for all the yankees all i want is the yanks to have a great year win tha world series and arod to help us achieve that goal
“After PEDs were banned in baseball you have to believe Alex wouldn’t risk getting caught. His legacy matters too much. His place in the game.”
Sadly, his place in the game will likely be somewhere close to Bonds’ place.
myrtle – your comparing arod taking a drug in 03 to your grandparent dying??? What are you talking about? More than half of baseball took roids – this is not the biggest thing to ever happen to this world. OVERREACTING
Don’t want a WS,with AROD.Please let him get hurt for the season. The Yankees celebration will be overshadowed.
murphydog -
Thanks for your input. And I was thinking the same with regard to MLB-TV. And Costas came on board just in time, too.
Rezzo
what the hell is wrong wit uu y would u want arod hurt matta fact any player hurt would u like anyone to tell u that they wish ull get hurt
dave,
i truly hope your right. i beleive the yanks are above this and will continue to win, right now im worried about the player we are stuck with for the next 9 years, hopefully he reacts to this in the best possible way, and thats another mvp season.
actually there was no Talking Heads song called “Stop Making Sense.”
The title of the concert film was taken from one of the lyrics of the song “Girl Friend Is Better.”
It’s nit picking, but Talking Heads are my favorite band.
Oh yeah, I left out a potential problem group for A-Rod: THE FANS.
Trying to think like A-Rod and his lawyers, I forgot about the people who pay for this incredible charade.
Pretty revealing.
“5) Ah, yes. The US Congress. Look for Orza and A-Rod to be getting subpoenas if Congress weighs in again. And there is a 100% chance of that happening, IMO. What better way to change the topic from the ever deepening recession? Obama will even get into the act.”
Murph:
I surely hope the US Congress recognizes there are much bigger fish to fry than the PED/steroid isssues in baseball. Learning what we’ve learned today does not undo changes MLB and the MLBPA have made to the CBA over the course of the past few years. Today’s news is disappointing but to me does not merit yet another dog and pony show before congress.
“Sadly, his place in the game will likely be somewhere close to Bonds’ place.”
Kind of early to write that story. Bonds was a roid freak on a cocktail of PEDs for years and years. His head is huge. His body transformed drastically. He’s a jerk.
There is a mountain of evidence against him.
Alex? One story from a writer with an axe to grind and an agenda. 4 anonymous sources leaking evidence that was supposedly sealed and should have been destroyed. This is the same woman who wrote the controversial Duke lacrosse article and was roasted for it.
Comparing the 2 players is ridiculous.
Sully: he was surely referring to the film.
Speaking of fantasy baseball. A-Rod is on my team. Who could I get for him?
I cant believe i AM the one trying to keep some sanity in this blog – usually Im at the opposite end but Ive never seen such a large group of people get so worked up over something this stupid – This season is not even close to ruined. We have the best team in baseball. Our odds are 5 to 2 to win the world series. We have three of the best players in the sport in their price. We have the best yankee team this decade. Who cares about this arod crap? We should be supporting him rather than crying and whining that he is a cheater six years ago. This is the best player on our favorite team – and he is going to go thru a bad team. So what should a hardcore fan do?
Cheer even harder and root even harder for that player. Over 50 percent of baseball players took roids in the 90s more likely. And for some reason, people target our yankees – they want us to stop rooting for the team, start hatting alex, etc. but why should we let these morons win? They most certainly broke the law getting this info out of an anonymous survey. Please dont give them the satisfaction of the yankee fan base crumbling instead of supporting. THIS IS OUR TEAM – ALEX IS OUR PLAYER. If we dont have his back along with his teammates who the heck will? Stop crying about how he could do this to us when he wasnt even on the team and roids wasnt even banned in baseball and start defending!! Thats what fans should do – unconditional, unwavering support.
After today, it would be a welcome relief for Arod to discuss SWF and his obsession for dressing like Derek Jeter.
2003 was so long ago. It was the season that Giambi’s body almost broke down and the Yankees and the Fans wanted off the team as soon as posible because he was a no-good-steriod using cheat.
Last season we were wearing fake mustachios and laughing at his thong wearing ways.
Is this any bigger news than Canseco and his accusations against Arod last year? Yes, it is a supposed positive test. But these tests in ’03 were only done to determine the extent of the PED problem. Is it unreasonable to think that the quality control of the samples and whose was whose was a little haphazard? After all, it didn’t matter WHO tested positive for steroids, just how many. There have been many labs to claim to have Lance Armstrong positive tests, only to not have the accusations stick because the chain of evidence was compromised.
that supposed to say PRIME not PRICE
If Babe Ruth was playing today he’d be considered a prima donna and a clubhouse cancer.
He got drunk a lot while with the Red Sox, he would show up to spring training out of shape.
He was so rotten during the 1922 World Series that people wondered about his motivation.
He cheated on his wife with tons of prostitutes and had to miss time during 1924 and 1925 with ailments and injuries brought around by his wild lifestyle.
At the time, baseball (and the press) turned their back on it because he was such a draw.
(Thank God they don’t do THAT anymore… oh wait)
I’m not slamming Ruth here. He belongs in any conversation of the top 3 players in baseball history and might be ranked #1.
But he would have been a fat white Terrell Owens if he played today
(Why else would no organization other the Dodgers for one season hire him after he retired?)
murphydog,
Thanks for your input. One more question: What’s the statute of limitations on a positive steroid test.
O/T, but if your team needed to draft a quarterback this season or had an ineffective one, would you trade for Matt Cassel? Two first round picks, but you’d probably use one on a QB anyway.
Stafford, Sanchez, or Cassell (who never started a game at USC)? Who do you take?
Sully, it was the film I was talking about.
I hope when Arod gives his I did speach, he dances at the mic like David Byrne at about 1:35 in this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzORu1dqEE0
I want an asterisk next to Mickey Mantle’s records indicating that he did not use PED’s.
If Arod is dumb enough to still be on steroids, MLB will make an example out of him, and his career could be over.
Doreen:
I don’t see this going away any time soon, certainly not before the “tip-off” story is written. That is the perfect invitation to the boobs in Congress to get involved in MLB’s dirty laundry while the country spirals closer to 1929 every day. They won’t be able to say no.
As Ted Turner famously (and crudely) observed, the owners have tried to “kill” this game repeatedly but failed. Now I guess it’s the players’ (and The Union’s) turn.
I would love to be a fly on the wall next time Jeter and Posada get together.
Jetes: “Can you believe this?”
Georgie: “Hey, he’s your friend.”
Asterisk Babe Ruth! Boos and Hot Dogs enhanced his performance chemically !
how do you know about mickey – was their peds testing back then??
Fair enough Tom
(as a Red Sox fan, I can’t comment on A-Rod… but I can make sure Talking Heads references are correct)
Now I know what it felt like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
That said, however, I would not be shocked to find that the story is true. There have been whispers about Arod for years. Some have been more than whispers. But, so what! He is a Yankee for 9 years, he is still the same player that we have rooted for for 5 years(some of us anyway), and he is still the best player on this team. He is still the 2nd best player in the game after Pujols. And don’t be surprised when Albert gets “outed” as he gets closer to some all time records.
Sully,
This is why Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time. He not only dominated the Majors in hitting, setting numerous records, and doing incredible things as an athlete, but he was also a dominating starting pitcher winning 94 games with a 2.28 ERA. When Mays, DiMaggio, Williams, Cobb, Rose, Aaron, and Mantle can do that feat, then they can be numero uno.
No problem, Sully. I perfectly understand.
ANother proud day for the Yankee organization
m:
You wrote: “Thanks for your input. One more question: What’s the statute of limitations on a positive steroid test.
”
I hear you.
A-Rod’s legal troubles are such that the reality of a lasting taint may not have really hit him yet. It’s a triage situation right now. Deal with the worst problem and then move one. Rule out prosecution first, then move on to a Congressional subpoena scenario and avoiding perjury by spilling the beans.
Unfortunately, hitting in the post season is waaaaaay down on A-Rod’s to do list as of this writing. Oh A-Rod… What better way to take a 162 game season and make it feel like a 362 game season.
If we’re telling Arod to follow the Talking Heads’ advice, he should just “make a clean break”.
Madonna pee’d for me last week and Gene Orza informed me I have Osteoperosis.
You’re right Mark. Arod is going nowhere. Whether it’s proven he did it or not (I too suspect it’s true), he’s going to be a Yankee and that’ll probably be a good thing for the organization for at least the next 5-7 years and hopefully all 9. However, HIS image is and will remain tarnished by this and the homerun chase, which the Yankees may ultimately be paying $25M for, is too.
There is some upside to this. The media will be jockeying for position more than ever to hear anything A-Rod and meanwhile the rest of the team can go about their business of “no comment” and just play baseball.
Kevin Page-
not only that, Madonna also pee’d on him last week.
My favorite Ruth stat is the 1 game he pitched in 1930-9 innings piched, 3 runs allowed and the win.
After not pitching in a game for 10 seasons.
“Jetes: “Can you believe this?”
Georgie: “Hey, he’s your friend.””
LMAO
the world isnt over, even though a lot of people here are acting like it is. of course as a fan it wont be easy to defend arod, but it wasnt exaclt easy before this. the media will be annoying and will ask the same questions over and over again, hopefully alex just has a big F U attitude and smash the baseball all over the place
“ANother proud day for the Yankee organization”
Surely, red sox fans and Yankee and Arod haters are delighted by this news today. They shouldn’t be. At least not if they are actually baseball fans. Every bit of news like this does nothing but hurt the game. How did the names mentioned in the Mitchell report help the game? And that was supposed to help baseball put the PED era behind, and move to a fresh start. This rehashing of alleged usage from years ago is only damaging.
I hate the red sox, but I do not relish the thought of Ortiz, Varitek, Lowell, Drew and their other PED abusers being dragged through the mud. It only serves to injure baseball.
Today’s headlines must be killing Torre and his book sales.
Maybe he can spin again – “now when I said A-Fraud I REALLY meant”….
Nick you’re right. A-Rod could have been a “once in a lifetime player”-on his way to baseball “heaven”. I guess we should have seen Jose’s book as more then a “Warning Sign”, but who wants to believe “Slippery People” like that.
where the hell is perry and what does he have to say about this… (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Tom
February 7th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I guess we should have seen Jose’s book as more then a “Warning Sign”, but who wants to believe “Slippery People” like that.
Any man who can beat the crap out of Danny Bonaduce can’t be taken lightly.
murphydog – thanks for the professional input. Sadly, we’ve needed it again.
Wonder whether Jeter is still “really excited” about the 2009 season?
CC, AJ, Swisher: Welcome to NY!
Any sox fan who says they don’t or didn’t suspect any sox for using roids is a flat out liar. I can name Ortiz, Manny, Jason among others that I strongly suspect having used.
And any Yankee fan who says the season is tainted is a fool.
He tested positive six years ago! SIX!! He wasn’t even a Yankee when he did. And consider the source of this information. This is the woman who had the key thrown away on the Duke Lacrosse players. I posted two articles early which stated she still wouldn’t take back what she said.
Rob, I’ll watch the Yankees, but I feel like a balloon that has been deflated. I was all pumped up for the start of the season – everything was going smoothly, our guys seemed extra excited, now this. Maybe I’ll feel better once ST gets underway – there will still be stories about Alex, but also about Tex, CC, AJ, Joba, the pen, etc….that I can digest (or at least, I hope these stories will be written).
“Surely, red sox fans and Yankee and Arod haters are delighted by this news today. They shouldn’t be. At least not if they are actually baseball fans. Every bit of news like this does nothing but hurt the game.”
agreed Mark. To me, it doesn’t matter what teams have guys being outed. It is a sad day when THE BEST is proven to be a fraud. This is would be if Jordan or Gretzky were frauds. It is heartbreaking and disappointing and not a good omen for baseball. Especially the coverup or warning angle with Orza. Red Sox, Yankees, A’s … doesn’t matter to me … won’t boo the guy but also hard to root for him now.
Rob, I also agree with your other points. I happen to be a very emotional person about baseball – I really, truly love the game and its history; it just means a lot to me. Today has pained me to no end,. I admit it.
Tonight MLB network aired a special on Roberto Clemente. Maybe I’ll watch that – talk about a hero.
Tom,
What’s also incridible about Ruth is he pitched back to back 300+ inning seasons.
“He tested positive six years ago! SIX!! He wasn’t even a Yankee when he did.”
He was a Yankee in 2004 when Orza felt the need to warn him about upcoming tests. Plus, it took MLB 15 years to catch up to roids. these guys have moved on to the next thing that they can’t detect yet. Steroids isn’t like going out and boozing it up one night, or taking coke one night. It is a planned regimen over a period of time. Regardless of tests, his entire career is suspect.
Incredible
i really wish this isnt trueeee i hope this is a huge mistakes cuz i noe yankee haterz and arod haterz are not goin to shut up with this
Celerino
Well how sophisticated were the roids that he was using if it could be detected in a simple urine test. I thought that is what everyone was screaming about. That what ever the players were using the needed to do a blood test to detect it. Apparently not.
“And any Yankee fan who says the season is tainted is a fool.”
regardless of what we think, if the Yanks go deep in the playoffs, that means A Rod will be a big part of it, and even if he is cheered, the rest of the world will view it as suspect.
Maybe they should start ST in early January from now on. The last 5 years or so, as soon as the December signings and trade rumors are beaten to death, the PED stories start. Every year there is a new bombshell from out of nowhere that ignites the firestorm in the days leading up to spring training. It is just tiring and boring at this point. Without actual baseball to deal with, the media goes looking for any little thread to start pulling on.
It’s a major hit on Team A-Rod, but he and his troops will find their way out of it with little damamge….They’ll distance themselves in every way posible from the Bonds situation…Clemens as well….The circumstances are far different, A-Rod will come out of this as if he were a victim….
“Laura – Absolutely. The Texas Rangers have some responsibility here. I don’t buy the “I had no idea” defense. Just like Beane and the Oakland A’s “had no idea” they were steroid central years ago. I remember reading in Moneyball that Beane said that he wasn’t concerned about a particular prospect’s lack of power – “they learn to have hit power once they get here”, or something to that effect. Gee, I wonder what he meant.”
********************************************************
And that being said didn’t Buck Showalter preside over those Texas Rangers teams? Hmm?
And where was he managing before Texas?
Thats a question I’ve been pondering.
Arod is going to catch flak when visiting other cities, but I’m curious to see how the NY fans react, when Arod goes into a slump, or doesn’t deliver in a big spot. The tension is already up there.
“Celerino
Well how sophisticated were the roids that he was using if it could be detected in a simple urine test. I thought that is what everyone was screaming about. That what ever the players were using the needed to do a blood test to detect it. Apparently not.”
They KNEW tests were coming in 2003 and KNEW they could not be punished for them and they were SUPPOSED TO BE AND REMAIN ANONYMOUS.
There still isn’t an HGH test now. How do you think Giambi went from rtoids to almost being released to overnight becoming productive again?
Betsy I think that once you see the guys out on the field a lot of that just melts away. For me I just remember watching games with my Grandpa. Everytime I see the Yanks hit the field I remember being 11 years old and having him explain to me that he “just don’t like Andy Pettite. I don’t know what it is, but I really don’t like the guy.”
Time will march on and if we don’t hit Great Depression 2 things will go, much like they always do. I mean shoot just a few months ago folks were ready to jump off the George Washington Bridge. (or was it fly over?
)
Tom, now we know how Arod got that “New Feeling” and was ‘Pulled Up’ to be the 2003 MVP. While Joe Torre said that his “Memories Can’t Wait” and wishes the topic was still “The Book I Read”, we know Arod was “Born Under Punches”; he is now “Seen and Not Seen”. I’m sure Arod would rather be “Making Flippy Floppy” with Madonna right now instead of experiencing “Life During Wartime”. Just a few years ago we Yankee fans were saying “Thank You For Sending Me an Angel”. “What a Day That Was”! Now we’re “Crosseyed and Painless”. “I’m Not in Love” anymore. “Don’t Worry About the Goverment”, Arod? No, everytime there’s a knock on the door, ask yourself: “Who is It?”
Yonder Alonzo, that’s it. Thanks, GB!
There ought to be an investigation of Congress if they pursue the steroids stuff while the country has incredible financial issues to deal with. I don’t think Obama will be getting involved anytime soon…..
pat m-
my first experience seeing steroid use was in the early 90′s in sarasota, fla on 2 person beach v-ball courts. it was a high level scene with even sinjin smith and randy stoklas the reigning avp champs playing with us at times.
because heated games often resulted you learned to stay away from certain guys who were always on the edge of exploding. i saw a guy shatter his hand punching a 10″ thick square pole after losing a game. anyone who has seen roid rage remembers it. it’s not pretty. you remember the look of that kind of person..
i was working out with a lot of pro baseball players at the time and i didn’t see anything like what i saw at the beach, but as a few years went by, the young players started having that familiar look. the common denominator between the beach and the baseball field was the gym.
that’s where the steroids were coming from. by 1993-4 , it was just part of the landscape. about that time, i was down at a spring training ranger practice in port charlotte and i was leaning on a fence watching bp when juan gonzales put his arm a few feet away from mine on the fence. i was an in shape 200 lbs then and his forearm seemed three times the size of mine. it didn’t look human.
it wasn’t like i wasn’t around athletes. my v-ball partner was a 6’5” former tight end with the bears. gonzalez’s forearms made this guy look small.
when owners and management say they had no idea what was going on they are being disingenuous . how could someone like me know and them not know?
they knew and chose to look the other way.
the thing that will make this fair if they are going to out players like arod is to suspend some gms and owners.
the rangers in 1993 : ivan rodriguez, juan gonzalex, jose canseco, raphael palmeiro, kevin brown
owner of the team: george bush
The real investigation should be into who leaked Arods name and potentially the other 103 players. These tests were supposed to be anonymous, weren’t they? And if they were supposed to be anonymous, why did they even keep track of who tested positive, and for what?
Murph, what about the leaking of the information? Is there any issues there or recourse?
DT
Torre’s book is a bestseller. Try reading it. It does not focus on Alex.(thank God.) Stuff about Alex was leaked to help sales.
The book is very interesting, especially the part on the Red Sox scouting.
now that the unveil arod y the hell dont they metioned the other players
Yeah, these tests were allegedly “survey” tests to see how prevelent roids were. Tough to tell when they had a year’s notice. Ken Caminiti said in the original roid SI article that he guessed 80% of MLB players were on it.
why were players’ names even attatched to these tests? and why were they not discarded or destroyed after their “survey”? Selig and the union are up to something not so kosher. That is where hostility should be directed, not Roberts or SI. There should have been nothing left for them to report on. why have a union if they won’t protect you?
Joe from Long Island:
Regarding needing my legal input… it’s really a shame we need legal input as often as we do these days.
When I worked in the DA’s Office, I spent some time in the misdemeanor bureau. There were many times I’d work up a case and ask myself why there was an arrest and why there was a prosecution. So many of the transactions that I saw in the misdemeanor bureau were matters that used to get settled the “old fashioned way,” either with a little “rough justice” on the street or when one set of parents sat down with another set of parents and worked it out without the bad actor getting locked up. not anymore.
A high school kid I represent got locked up for calling a high school buddy and leaving a message on the kid’s home phone that he’d kill him if he found out the friend was spreading his business on the street. The client ended the message with something like: “C’mon, dude. Don’t do me like this. Call me tomorrow.” No violence, no punches, no screaming threats, no stalking, just the vernacular used by kids of that age all the time. And the cops lock my client up.
The point is that we have come to rely way too much on the legal system, (and therefore lawyers), as the only way to work out our differences and come to conclusions as to the truth. Way too much value is put on adversarial legal combat. As though the outcome of that is really better than a more informal resolution.
Blame it on the erosion of the family, the fall of the Church, Watergate, bad education, whatever… but pretty soon, every single case of hurt feelings or transgression of any kind will be brought before some court to settle. There’s a legal maxim, “de minimus non curat lex” or, the law doesn’t get involved in trivial disputes. Like hell it doesn’t.
Rob, I hope you are right. Right now I’m pretty depressed, but in the next day or two, I will very likely be steroided out and will be ready for ST.
Nick. Well done. Well Done. I hope you were wearing an oversized grey suit when you typed that.
What happens on Monday if MLB comes out and says that there were no names attached to the ’03 tests, therefore, there is now way to know whether it was Arod or not? Maybe it was somebody with a grudge leaking this to SI. What happens, is that Arod still would have the scarlet S on his chest as long as he plays.
Does anyone still care about what position Jeter will be playing in 2 years?
Murph,
Great stuff as usual.
I don’t think Arod has to worry about Congress. Obama has said Congress has more important things to do than worry about baseball players.
What he has to worry about is the Clemens currently empaneled in DC.
I have no doubt he’s going to get called to testify before that grand jury.
That’s why he’s limited to what be can say now.
This leak was done for a purpose. It was to humiliate him enough to assist the Feds.
Classic case of the government putting someone in a box.
How he gets out of it will determine whether or not he can ever re-establish his name in the game.
Randy — I was only 9 in 1994 but I can attest to that same kind of thing in football locker rooms and weight rooms. When you see guys that weigh 225 pounds squatting 600+ and they get that look in their eyes you know something is wrong. It’s funny that you talk about how it wasn’t always like this because it’s been such a ‘common place’ thing in every locker room i’ve ever been in.
m
February 7th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
murphydog,
Thanks for your input. One more question: What’s the statute of limitations on a positive steroid test.
————————————————————
If there is any, I would think that it’s no more than 3-5 years. In a report on the hearings involving McGwire, Congressman Davis made mention that McGwire wanted to answer the question but didn’t because the 5 year Statute Of Limitations for use hadn’t expired. Not sure how he assumed that McGwire anted to talk.
SJ44…A Gov’t squeeze play of sorts…..
Mark, that’s not going to happen. It’s been known for years that there were in fact names linked with those tests which is why the Union is in court over it right now.
Besides, if in fact A-Rod didn’t fail this test, do you honestly think we would still be waiting for some tye of response from him or his people?
As depressing as this is, it seems pretty clear that he has used in the past. Let’s just hope like hell he stopped and that somehow he handles this in a way that doesn’t cause this to hang like a black cloud over the season.
Pride and the pinstripes. You gotta love it!
Angel – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing:
Murph, what about the leaking of the information? Is there any issues there or recourse?
Nice Macbeth reference
Sure there are issues. Disclosing information protected by Grand Jury secrecy could be a crime in and if itself.
But this information was obtained by a search warrant, I think, and may have been the result of taking items not specified in the warrant, or, items “outside the scope of the warrant.” The person who has the clearest legal right to challenge the seizure of that information would be the criminal defendant in the case the search warrant is connected to. But that right pertains to seeking suppression of that information from introduction at the criminal trial – it’s not a separate civil action for an injunction or money damages.
Third parties, like A-Rod, not connected to that primary criminal case, must find an independent civil duty owed to him that was somehow breached by the seizure of the “outside the scope” information, or by the disclosure of that information.
I’ll spare you the rest, but I’m not sure there is any civil legal recourse for A-Rod at this point. I’m equally sure his lawyers are looking for a way to prove my conclusion is wrong. We’ll see.
Maybe his civil rights were violated under section 1983 by some government employee somewhere. The problem is that if A-Rod sues anybody, he opens himself up to broad discovery and legal dumpster diving into his rather interesting and unconventional life.
Assuming that I determined that a viable cause of action existed on A-Rod’s behalf, I’d advise him to skip the lawsuit.
Tom: but I forgot “Drugs (Electricity)”. For shame.
who are all these people who were suddenly inspired to post for the first time ever today (about what a fraud a-rod is). guys, time for some real inspiration in your life!! great posts from the regulars though.
“And that being said didn’t Buck Showalter preside over those Texas Rangers teams? Hmm?
And where was he managing before Texas?
Thats a question I’ve been pondering.”
He managed Arizona before Texas.
Betsy
February 7th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Yonder Alonzo, that’s it. Thanks, GB!
There ought to be an investigation of Congress if they pursue the steroids stuff while the country has incredible financial issues to deal with. I don’t think Obama will be getting involved anytime soon…..
————————————————————
Happy to help a little, Betsy.
AROD fan
Agreed, I see a lot of names I don’t recognize.
Jennifer,
I’m as big a Red Sox fan as you will ever meet…
and I think Ortiz, Varitek, Manny, Damon, Nomar, Schilling and Trot all used something
Millar is a no doubter.
I still love them.
What about Gabe.
AROD fan
Agreed, I see a lot of names I don’t recognize.
—————————-
I don’t understand how any baseball fan could take any joy in today’s revelation. Even if you hate the Yankees.
This goes so far beyond one team.
This is a black eye on the entire sport.
Sure as a Yankee fan, I’m deeply concerned about how this is gonna effect the team. My real depression, however, is as a baseball fan over what this does to the game I love.
not to be redundant here, but the players union needs to get some balls here. what is wrong with them. they need to all say they did steriods. every single one of them. that is the only way to get rid of this stupid roids story.
Former pitcher Tom House claims to have tried steroids in the 70s.
They’ve been around the game longer then people want to admit.
Murphy– I’m taking an American Legal Thought class at school and frankly this is part of the problem of our legal system. The major incentive in bringing suit is money. We (once I become a member of the bar) work on contingency in most civil cases and so we want the highest loot output from the defendant (in this case the government). But what happens when your client, a guy like A-Rod, has more money than god with more coming and doesn’t need more money? What are you going to argue for? An apology? There’s no way to uncan the worms even if there was some sort of negligent handling of information on the part of the government and at best he’d get MORE MONEY. Fat lot of good that does the guy whose sole gripe about his name coming out is a form of injury that money can’t fix.
SJ:
If only Obama really dictated Congress’ schedule. Sure they have bigger things to do. But when has that stopped them from promoting themselves at the expense of the country
Unfortunately, lots of those clowns are up for election in two years. It’s a very powerful issue and they have been prowling these precincts for years now and know how good the ratings are.
The “best player in baseball” is now compromised and he is too inviting a target to just pass on. Also, MLB and the Union have repeatedly assured COngress that this is a problem they are dealing with and that they can regulate themselves.
So, IMO, what gets them all back before Congress are A-Rod’s high profile and the “tipping” allegations, which undermine all the representations made to Congress of effective self-regulation by MLB in partnership with MLBPA.
A tipping scandal is really just another form of lying to Congress, only this time by the Union.
The knock on Ruth (which is no fault of his own) is he played in a non integrated game
It would have been great to see him play with ALL the best players of his day
The Negro Leagues during the 1920s were one of their boom times and glory eras with the Chicago American Giants and the Kansas City Monarchs fielding the best teams.
I’m not downplaying Ruth’s accomplishments.
I wish he played against ALL the best talent.
so who is threatening to release the other 103 names?
AROD fan
February 7th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
not to be redundant here, but the players union needs to get some balls here. what is wrong with them. they need to all say they did steriods. every single one of them. that is the only way to get rid of this stupid roids story.
———————-
I AM SPARTACUS!
Mike Mussina had THE GREAT CURVE
By the way Talking Heads fans…
Check out some of these amazing clips of some Heads early great songs in concert in Rome
Here’s The Great Curve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KQjy02eqOk
(Hey, it’s more pleasant to talk some Talking Heads than to discuss steroids)
I am so sick and tired about hearing this. Every year it is a new roid story, and it is only going to continue, not only with Alex, but Bond’s and Rogers cases. Doesn’t the government have more important things to worry about? No they are wasting money on charging Bonds, and investigating whether or not to charge Roger with perjury!
What about the millions of Americans losing jobs, or benefits being cut? What about gas continuing to go up in price for no reason? No we are worried about some idiot lying! Real funny considering the government is full of LIARS!
Tom
February 7th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Former pitcher Tom House claims to have tried steroids in the 70s.
They’ve been around the game longer then people want to admit.
————————————————————
The Russians and east germans had been acused of steroid use and doping in the Olympics since the mid-60s.
lol Murphy how about an NIED claim against the government?
Murph, I only assume that you aren’t a labor lawyer, but, if there is any impropriety on the part of the Players Union, is there any chance that they get decertified or in some way removed as a legal union?
Mark- What ever the figure is. The government has more important things to worry about.
Rob NY — 2009 The Road to Redemption:
If only I could be lucky enough to have an A-Rod like client one day.
I hear you, but the truth is that the Government and plenty of others like to cherry pick targets. Just because A-Rod has lots of money doesn’t mean he deserves to be the target of every putz with an agenda, in or out of government. Zealously representing your client within the bounds of the law takes many forms, including aggressively protecting wealthy (if odd) clients from victimization or unfair treatment by the Government or any other gonif with designs on your clients’ money or reputation, who are trying to increase their money and reputation at your client’s expense.
Rich and famous folk are targets of so many entities, public and private as well as individuals. Some of it is simple jealousy, some of it is greed. Fighting back is sometimes the only justice the rich and famous get, whether they can win enough money to make a difference to them or not.
Letting others know you will fight – and hard – if provoked is a sound strategy for a lot of public figures. (See, Tom Cruise). You use your financial advantages to head off trouble before it comes to a head and also to discourage jerks from trying to get “nuisance money” from you. Lots pf rich and famous literally become prisoners of the fame and money.
I can almost hear you crying real tears for these poor, rich folks
If I were involved in the Player’s Union I would seriously be looking into suing MLB and the labs involved. The testing, as was stated, was supposed to be anonymous and for survey purposes only. Now the info is going to be used in a court case and is being leaked right before spring training. Who’s going to get publicly humiliated next? It is an invasion of privacy that should be punished.
In my opinion steroids have hurt the game and efforts should be made to keep it clean, but its clear that many, many players were using them and to punish a couple because they got caught in a “survey” is hypocrisy. Clearly the 8th highest paid person in the game is earning his pay. What a joke. The owners were raking it in when these guys were juicing and hitting ridiculous power numbers but they are hanging them out to dry afterwards.
Are steroids the new “Yankee Way”?
Mikey-
Ever hear the saying, “those who live in glass houses should not throw stones?”
At this point, I really don’t care who did and didn’t use steroids. It’s very obvious to me that they were very prevalent in the game (maybe even up to the 80% using figure Caminiti stated) from the mid 90s until the testing policy was put in place in 2004. That means, to me, that it was a level playing field. If most players were using, how can we discount anyone’s stats from that time?
Another thing, I hope ARod can talk about this plainly and fully. I hope he does so then goes out and has a MONSTER year. I think he’s very capable of doing so.
Don’t bother him now, Jennifer…he’s lighting up a pipe.
Has anyone ever been prosecuted for failing a drug test?
Possession charge for the nanograms in their body? ARod wasn’t flying a plane, he was hitting a baseball.
Congress had their day in the sun regarding PED’s in baseball. It was laughable then. And now? Given the problems our country currently faces, it would be akin to political suicide.
I also don’t see how Arod can help the Feds prove Clemens perjured himself. They were teammates for 4 months a full 6 years after Clemens supposedly took steroids.
“GB7:
Murph, I only assume that you aren’t a labor lawyer, but, if there is any impropriety on the part of the Players Union, is there any chance that they get decertified or in some way removed as a legal union?”
Decertification is a government remedy, I think. They can ask that a union be decertified under certain circumstances. (Not a labor lawyer, correct). More interesting, however, is that Congress may devise some oversight plan worse or more invasive than decertification. How about someone overseeing the Commissioner and/or the Union, like a monitor, like they do when a union is mobbed up.
Just spitballing here, but, IMO, if these allegations are proven true, and contained to Orza (or he takes the fall), he may have to walk the plank to save the others in addition to Congressional oversight.
“It’s funny that you talk about how it wasn’t always like this because it’s been such a ‘common place’ thing in every locker room i’ve ever been in.”
rob ny-
that’s a sad situation because when pat m, gb7, and i were young, you had to work hard at something to get anywhere athletically. instead of creating a false arrogance it created a confidence and a good feeling about yourself because you paid the price earning it.
steroids cuts short that process. the steroid user cheats himself out of that good feeling of accomplishment and character building by taking a short cut.
we see players like jeter never complain against the unfair competition, but i think jeter in his wisdom knows that users really cheat themselves.
except for sometimes worrying about them killing you, i can’t remember ever having trouble beating steroid users on the v-ball court . we would just push their buttons which was easy to do and play head games with them. they’d usually snap and lose their composure. you could see them crack emotionally, and you knew you had them.
handling athletic pressure is often a matter of composure. i don’t see how being on the verge of snapping because you have so much testosterone racing though your veins helps an athlete keep his cool.
the more that time goes on the more i respect jeter. he’s done it the right way.
Sully this was a cool movie. The late Spaulding Grey in this Clip…. and a kid that looks like a young Ethan Hawke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3QxN192Qgc
Espresso:
I’m feeling you, bud. Just remember that in any lawsuit, there is discovery, the mandatory exchange of information prior to trial where the parties (and their witnesses) open themselves up to invasive and intrusive forays into their relevant records and their lives.
The Union had better be real sure they are clean if they want to get into a shooting war on this stuff.
“There still isn’t an HGH test now. How do you think Giambi went from rtoids to almost being released to overnight becoming productive again?”
Will people please, please read up on the effects of HGH before spewing this crap? Please? Very unlikely HGH was involved in Giambi’s turnaround unless you argue he used it to stay healthy. Personally, I think HGH should be legal for rehabilitating purposes (much like cortisone shots – which is actually a steroid shot). Now, could Giambi or any player for that matter be using some brand new designer steroid that is undetectable by current tests? Yeah. As they say, the designers are always, ALWAYS ahead of the testers. Designing pays MUCH better. Shoot, if somebody hadn’t have shipped a vial of ‘the Clear’ to the IOC or wherever, it would have never been detected in anyone that used it. Only after it was discovered was a test developed for it.
Anybody who tries to talk about politics or Nancy Pelosi or anything like that will get banned. No second chances. This blog has not and will not get bogged down with people talking about politics.
Period.
Thanks.
ThaMurph….appreciate the answer. I only assumed that you weren’t in labor because of the impressions I got from past posts of your’s. If that union goes down, God help the people controlling union funds. It would take 5 years to audit those books.
“Former pitcher Tom House claims to have tried steroids in the 70s.
They’ve been around the game longer then people want to admit.”
i didn’t want to add his name before, but nolan ryan was having clemens like years for those rangers teams of 93- 94 while in his mid fourties.
george freaking bush was the owner of this circus.
you can’t make this stuff up.
Angel – thanks. The ballet was actually wonderful. It was a production of A Thousand and One Nights (Alladin, Sinbad, and Ali Baba). The costumes, music, and settings were tremendous, not to mention the dancing. Happy it was a good production.
One the way there and back I thought about a few things. One is the statute of limitations. While I am not entirely positive, I seriously doubt that the statute of limitations is more than five years for use. It may be longer for dealing. So I seriously doubt that any admission Arod makes about 2003 would put him in legal jeopardy as far as prosecution for use. Where it gets more complicated is that the information was Arod be in violation of a court order if he were to acknowledge anything? It gets a bit sticky.
About libility for either publishing the information (SI) or providing the information for publication (Roberts as receiver of the information), if it can be proven that they understood the information to be protected by court order, they could have problems. Of course you’d have to be able to prove that they knew it was protected by court order. Then there’s the supplier of the information. Will someone drag Roberts into court and tell her that she will be jailed unless she gives up her source? Actually I would love to see that happen to her.
What really angers me here is Orza. There is no question in my mind that he gave players a heads up. I had heard that a long time ago. What that ends up doing is always having the specter of “continued use” over the heads of players who did use – such as Arod.
We all know his career is now tainted. We don’t know how long the taint will last. But I am hearing the sportcasters all say the same thing: he will never be voted into the Hall of Fame now that this has come out. True? False? I don’t have the answer to that but they seem to be pretty sure that he won’t.
It’s ugly. No question.
As an aside, I always suspected that Ortiz was a user, based on the way his career took off when he hit Fenway and how all of his numbers skyrocketed in a disproportionate way (disproportionate to merely factoring in the fenway park advantage.) And then when there were reports that a supplier for the Mets (not Radomski) was being questioned and Ortiz came out immediately after that and said for all he knew it was possible that he had used steroids because he used to get protein drinks and vitamins and the ingredients weren’t listed – well that sounded like the beginning of a case for plausible deniability.
And now he has started to have the injuries associated with the body breaking down due to steroid useage.
I obviously don’t know for sure about Ortiz, but I always suspected.
*******************
Thanks for the laugh about the ballet anyway. I loved the comment by GB that he stopped going once he heard that Baryshnikov might be on steroids.
Pete:
Just checking. Speculating about whether Congress gets involved in MLB again is cool, right?
Yeah Murphy I completely agree with your take on the rich protecting themselves. There are too many of the folks you’re talking about, looters of anything and everything that produces wealth, in this country. They’re a large part of the reason why, to quote Calogero from the Bronx Tale, “Somebody pulled the chain, and (America) was going down the toilet.”
To think I would have anything but the utmost respect for people who produce enough to be considered rich by using their talents, is to pin Churchill’s famous quote to a person it doesn’t apply to. I suppose I have no heart! lol
I hope you’re right about Jeter randy l. I do agree with you and think you’re right. But, it wouldn’t totally shock me if at some point it’s revealed he used something. At this point, it wouldn’t shock me if ANYONE is found to have used. PEDs could have been that prevalent in the game.
MurphyDog:
Yes, of course But I saw people carrying on about Congress and jobs and whatnot and that stuff will not be allowed here.
Sorry Pete.
Pete:
Agreed. Will proceed accordingly.
murphydog-
last winter you enlightened us on the clemens hearings; this winter it’s the arod steroid charges and the inherent union problems, what do you have scheduled for next winter?
Let’s hear it for Hank Aaron, the once, present and future, all-time HR king – period stop.
i’dont care if A-rod did it back that time, and then stoped doing it, he is going to be always chased by anyone, he’s not going to have peace, in his entire career in new york he have to deal with it.
There’s a great post by Neyer on this issue. One of the best of his I’ve read. Here’s the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=Neyer_Rob
Oh, and sorry if this was posted previously. I just don’t have the time right now to look through all the comments I missed.
randy l:
“last winter you enlightened us on the clemens hearings; this winter it’s the arod steroid charges and the inherent union problems, what do you have scheduled for next winter?
”
Next winter I plan to make myself some money with all my brilliant legal insights
I don’t understand why there was any way to link the samples to the players that gave them. It doesn’t make sense to keep that info if you are conducting the tests on the condition of anonymity. The only thing they were looking for was the % of positive tests if you believe the press releases.
From the talking heads it sounds like there were a couple of steps between the test results and the identity of the player. If you weren’t planning to screw people over why would you keep that the data identifying who gave what sample? It should have been irrelevant.
Basically the players’ privacy has been invaded with potentially serious consequences to them.
Looking at the Arod’s HR numbers, as the NYTimes is suggesting, shows no real trend that could be attributed to PEDs. His numbers go up as he matures and then goes from Safeco ( a pitcher’s park) to Texas (no description needed). If you can assume that he has been clean under the testing since 2004 his numbers now should be clean and they are still prodigious. Last year’s total is down but he missed a month.
God this is what happens when I try to stay away from my computer for a day.
There are already writers saying Arod will not get in the Hall of Fame after this one alleged leak. That would be a shame, since I feel that he didn’t need steroids to put up the kind of numbers that he has. He has as much natural talent as anybody. It is similar to Bonds, in some ways. Most assume Bonds atarted using @1999-2000. He was already a certain HOFer at that point, yet felt the need to be seen as nor just the best of his era, but the best ever. And ended up destroying his legacy and leaving in disgrace. Let’s hope it never gets that far with Arod.
Pete, I wasn’t trying to turn this into a political discussion. I just couldn’t resist the jab. Won’t happen again.
From the Neyer article linked by rodg12:
“But I will not sit idly while great athletes looking for an edge — not all that different from the many generations before them — are demonized by the high priests of baseball opinion. I will not.”
Yeah, part of me really does feel the same way. This point of view was rattling around in my head last year with Clemens. I guess time will tell whether the steroids era is thrown out as garbage or revisited as a learning curve in the long history of the game.
“But, it wouldn’t totally shock me if at some point it’s revealed he used something”
the only way jeter would test positive for steroids if some boston pizza maker sprinkled some on his pizza.
i would almost bet anything jeter would never do it.
does it strike anyone else that the known steroid users aren’t exactly guys we associate with winning championships. yes, they pile up numbers, but are they winners in general. i realize that clemens has some rings , but in general does a team that has a culture of peds win.
excepy for tino hitting 44 hrs in 97, no yankee had more than 30 home runs during the 96-2000 run. this is not a sign of a ped using team.
All –
Why is anyone surprised?
I’m not.
Tell me who you think DIDN’T take an illegal substance in 2003.
What a joke. If this was about Nomar – another player who you absolutely KNEW was on the juice, it would be back page Boston one day and forgotten the next.
I am in no way surprised that Arod cheated – especially when he joined the Rangers – a team, which just like Oakland, had cheaters at every other position.
I don’t see how you can automatically throw Alex out of the discussion of ever being in the hall, as some writers are already saying, not really even suggesting.
It was a leak, who leaked the information? I don’t care how many sources she has. This test was supposed to be confidential. She somehow gets only one name? One name? give me a break, if she listed the entire list, I’d feel differently. But she has an agenda here, someone already said she has a book coming out on Alex.
I heard an interview with her, she has Alex sees her and wasn’t too happy. Really I wonder why? She has the Duke players already in jail, when apparently they turned out not to be guilty. And he knows she is writing a book on him. Is he supposed to welcome her with open arms?
“does it strike anyone else that the known steroid users aren’t exactly guys we associate with winning championships. yes, they pile up numbers, but are they winners in general. i realize that clemens has some rings , but in general does a team that has a culture of peds win.”
It’s really tough to answer this question randy. I’d point to both the ’01 Diamondbacks team and the ’04 Red Sox team as being composed of many guys that have to seem very, very suspicious as far as PED usage. Both those teams won rings and made the careers of some of the players. Ortiz, Schiling, Varitek. Those guys are thought of as winners and it’s very very possible they used.
“i realize that clemens has some rings , but in general does a team that has a culture of peds win.”
Agreed. If they kept Wells, Yanks would have won the next two anyway. Rocket was just along for the ride and unfortunately brought down Pettitte with him.
Good points as always, Espresso
I don’t care how slimey Jose Canseco is, once again we see that he’s the only one telling the truth about all this. How sad is that?
murph -
First off, thanks for all the legal breakdowns you’ve given on here. Great stuff.
Second, that was the money quote of the article for me as well. Probably one of the best quotes Neyer has ever written. I feel the same way as he does.
Pete, or anyone else who knows, there’s one thing I’m not clear on. Were these 104 players aware that they had actually failed this test? Since it was an “anoymous” test I wonder if the players themselves were ever actually given the results.
Not that it really matters, just curious.
“Next winter I plan to make myself some money with all my brilliant legal insights ”
i’ll contribute. you’re definitely the go to legal mind on the blog. remember the good old days of casual sunday morning chats on the blog? no more. this place has gotten serious.
plenty of guys on ours and every other team. fix it now and let’s go forward. at least half of mlb juiced. u tell me how these guys can hit it out to all fields. it never used to be that way.
“does it strike anyone else that the known steroid users aren’t exactly guys we associate with winning championships.”
I agree in general, but McGwire and Canseco did win a championship, and went to three World Series. They were probably not the only players using on those A’s teams, as well. Then there are the 70′s Steelers.
I don’t care how slimey Jose Canseco is, once again we see that he’s the only one telling the truth about all this. How sad is that?
=====================================
Sad but true. The slime ball told it like it was.
It’s been said on here, but I still don’t get how these survey samples were tied to names of players. That point is still sticking with me. How the heck does that happen in what is supposed to be an anonymous survey. And, how the heck does the MLBPA not have the samples destroyed after testing. Both things are just ludicrous to me.
I think a lot of people are missing the point with A-Rod. Yes, it stinks that the MLBPA screwed this up. It further stinks that the feds are chasing around ballplayers. It stinks that four people leaked his name.
That all stinks. But none of it changes that he did it.
I’ve written 100 times on his blog what a weird, socially awkward person Alex is. I thought he was wrong to opt out. I think he’s wrong to act the way he does.
But I’ve always written at the same time that he is best player in the game. The excuse he always had was that he was so good.
Now that is gone, too. That he cheated robs him of his only excuse. Now the great arm, the great power, the great speed and the great athletic ability is all in question. Steroids can’t help you hit a baseball. But they help you recover from injuries, work out longer and stay on the field. You cant hit home runs unless you play.
Cant say it’s a surprise. This is a guy who colors his hair, goes to the tanning booths and literally screams every time he enters the room to make sure everybody notices him. PEDs were probably just another way to get the attention he craves.
It speaks to his lack of character that he knew about this on Thursday and didn’t tell the team. The same team that gave him a record contract when he came crawling back to them. The same team that defends him every time. The same team that celebrates him. He let his ambush them and let me tell you, the Yankees are furious about it.
The Yankees now have this albatross to deal with for nine long seasons. Everything he does will be discounted as the work of a cheater and that will reflect poorly on the team. Every accomplishment he contributes to will be flawed. This isn’t Giambi or Pettitte. This is the guy they made tied themselves to for 10 years, their big star.
They can’t get rid of him or void his deal as far as I can tell. But this distraction could ruin the 2009 season and cost Girardi his job. Girardi is not the guy you want in that seat for this mess. Every place the Yankees go, the first question will be about Alex the cheater. Every opposing crowd will jeer them.
There is only one way out of this. Alex needs to report to spring training and sit there like Andy did last year and admit what he did, apologize for it and try to stop acting like a jerk. If he can do that, the Yankees can get past this.
But I question whether his ego will allow that. Standing there and saying “ask the union” doesn’t get it done. He can’t get away with this by hitting a long home run. That will only serve to remind people what he did.
“u tell me how these guys can hit it out to all fields”
Jeter has as much RC to rightfield power as most righthand batters, yet he is the one player most point to as the player you trust that he was/is clean. He is one of the few that Canseco pointed out in his book as being clean. Like him or hate him, Canseco has been right more than wrong. Most of his inaccuracies came from him overstating his own greatness.
For the record, I am 99.99% sure Jeter is clean.
The least of his concerns should be the HOF and even if it was:
He’s got 9 years of contract left and who knows what revelations about him or more importantly others could come out by then.
In 14 years, peoples views, perceptions and those who vote for the HOF may be completely different.
He’s in a unique situation in that regard. No one is voting on him in 5 years or less like many who have been accused before.
Pete – I agree with every single word of your post. Yes, no matter how much we want to look at anything surrounding this particular issue it doesn’t change that Arod did it, nor all of the many many ramifications that go with it and will continue with it.
This will definitely take on a life of its own.
And Arod has nobody to blame but Arod.
Pete,
Wow. What a great rant. I agree with every word.
The only thing is we’re only 99% sure. Are you assuming guilt. The chain of command for this evidence is long, twisted, and in the dark.
I think Cashman needs to have a meeting first with Joe G, than with the players on how to handle all the questions, what to say and what not to say.
For the record, I am 99.99% sure Jeter is clean.
—————————————–
At this point I don’t feel comfortable saying that about any player.
I don’t even think I would be surprised to wake up tomorrow and read that David Eckstein was one of the 104 players who tested positive.
“But this distraction could ruin the 2009 season and cost Girardi his job.”
I think you’re reaching a bit by saying that Girardi could lose his job over this….
And I don’t think A-rod was taking PEDs because he was “craving for attention,” but because he wanted to get better, the same reason everyone else takes PEDs.
jen, in this day and age I think it’s actually pretty weak for players to say they support a player who took steroids. And I agree they need to have a company line on this one.
Except Pete that steroids CAN help you to hit a baseball.
They make you stronger, which in turn increases bat speed, which in turn allows a batter see the ball that much longer before committing. Not to mention the added pop that can turn some outs into hits.
Whoa whoa whoa, Pete… I think you’re jumping the gun on this one. Let’s wait and see if any of this is true before we cast judgment.
/Pete’sInitialTorreBookReaction
Jeter is the only right handed batter I’ve seen hit Opposite field Upper deck shots in Yankee Stadium – I think twice.
But I do NOT think he EVER did PEDs.
I think the real reason Jeter and AROD stopped being buds is that Jeter did not like the fact he cheated on his wife and maybe he suspected roids- just my opinion
OK! he juiced. Now, how do we fix this? How does the game recover? How do we get past the “asterisk era”? Everyting I’ve read states that the science will outpace testing. How do we as fans, know what we are seeing is legit?
I don’t have the answer. Just throwing it out as I’d like to hear a realistic solution.
There is only one way out of this. Alex needs to report to spring training and sit there like Andy did last year and admit what he did, apologize for it and try to stop acting like a jerk. If he can do that, the Yankees can get past this.
============================================
I hope he does this. Also, can the baseball gods please not make this some sort of regular event/confessional for certain Yankee players during spring training.
Last year-Andy
This year-Alex(maybe..we’ll see)
Next year-?
If an SI reporter came to me about a story that I took steroids, and I didnt take them, then I would be out and about telling everyone that the story was a lie. But A-Roids I guess is busy with his purple lip gloss. Or he is just a cheater much like most Yankees the past 10 years.
755
And a cheer for Roger Maris too.
Scared,
I think that Alex wanted to be the best player in the world and may have used to steroids to help him to do that.
Pete,
Betsy’s going to flip when she reads your post. She was already on the edge.
“There is only one way out of this. Alex needs to report to spring training and sit there like Andy did last year and admit what he did, apologize for it and try to stop acting like a jerk. If he can do that, the Yankees can get past this.”
the problem is that pettitte if we are to believe him just used hgh a few times. if arod was a long term user, how can he confess to that.
if it is proved without a doubt he is a chronic user, the yankees should simply release him . if the courts force the yankees to pay him, they’ll get the sympathy of a nation and a clean slate for the team to move forward.
if alex had a very limited steroid use, then he could come clean as pete says and put it behind him.
i don’t see clamming up as being a helpful thing for long because he’s going to be in front of congress or a grand jury at some point where he can’t take that route.
m -
Thoughts on the Lakers trade today?
Ladeedadeeda….Ladeedadeeda…(whistling whilst twiddling thumbs)
Oh hey guys…Haven’t stopped by the blog in some time.
Has baseball season started yet?
I heard Jose Veras’s stuff is looking real good in the bullpen.
Did you hear the Yankees have new patches on their uniforms this season?
Hopefully this season wont be another typical soap opera like past seasons.
Ladeedadeeda…Ladeedadeeda….(whistling whilst twiddling thumbs).
I just can’t see A-Rod sitting there sincerely answering all the questions about this.
From everything we’ve ever seen of him he just does not seem to have that in him.
“Except Pete that steroids CAN help you to hit a baseball”
Good point. I have felt that steroids made McGwire into a better hitter overall, not just power. My belief is that steroids gave him the confidence to shorten his swing considerably, yet maintain his power. When McGwire first came up, he had a ton of power, but his swing was very long and loopy. Any average fastball above the belt gave him fits. Yet late in his career, he was hitting letter high 98MPH fastballs out of the park.
Bonds already had a short, quick swing. PEDs allowed him to wait longer than anybody in history before committing, and then to do so with fearsome power that, in the past, would have required a much longer swing.
“But none of it changes that he did it.”
Amen. YES, it’s unfair that he’s, so far, the only guy who’s been named. But there’s a damn simple way to avoid ever having to deal with having to address a failed steroid test. I’m tired of his apologists making him into a victim. He’s not.
“Jeter is the only right handed batter I’ve seen hit Opposite field Upper deck shots in Yankee Stadium – I think twice. ”
can anyone else verify this?
it doesn’t seem possible.
randy l,
The Yankees will never get the sympathy of a nation!
Randy1
I know he did it AT LEAST once. Sincerely.
“Did you hear the Yankees have new patches on their uniforms this season?”
if they do they are probably “kick the habit ” patches”
sorry ,couldn’t resist
rodg12,
At first I laughed. I thought, “Pencil Stache?!”
Then I went to the Lakers blog @ the la times and understood why they did it. To clear salary for next season. Basically, it saves them the trouble of trading Luke. I know. But Luke’s better than Vlady and they need to take care of Ariza next season. I had a soft spot for the space cadet, but he was unhappy with his playing time.
I never saw Jeter go upper deck in YS, but I have missed a few games.
Sorry, Peter, but you have no credibility when it comes to your rant about ARod. You have ranted just as indignantly about his frosted hair, his taste in (alleged) girlfriends, and his lack of manners with the press.
So, while I’m sure you’re just dying to have him grovel all season long with the press, you have no credibility when it comes to giving him that advice, because whateve he does you will disapprove.
And, you continue to misrepresent facts. As offended as you were by it, the opt out was his contractual right, it it was not “wrong” or traitorous (as you’ve said in the past), for him to exercise. Plus, you continue to ignore the fact that ARod came back to the Yankees before he was even allowed to talk money with other teams, so the “crawling” assertion is incorrect and slimy.
Plus, in your initial comments after this story broke, and above, you jumped right from one alleged positive test, to an entire career bolstered by PEDs, and there is absolutely no valid grounds to do so.
Fact is, he is still a great player. Whatever he may have done, along with at least 104 of his peers back in 2003 does not negate his greatness.
Peter and Sam would love for it to be a story that “kills” a Yankee season. Whatever. A-Rod is a jerk and he must be a pain to deal with. He’s also one of 104 players on a list that doesn’t represent the full extent of the problem. His name came out because Selena targeted him. And apparently found 4 independent sources willing to violate court order to leak on him. Hmm…maybe it’s time for Selena to write a book/article on David Ortiz.
Clare- Well said.
Pete
I agree with much of what you wrote but your bias is showing in places.
You would be the same guy who said “you have to read the book” and not just the excerpts. How about letting things play out a little before you determine the long term future of the Yankees, Girardi and A-Rod all 1 day.
Tell you what they should do:
Release Alex without pay and let him take them to court. Sign Orlando Hudson to play second and move Cano to third base.
Play ball.
That ends the distraction and the entire team would be thrilled to just play baseball. They would win 98 games and the AL pennant behind the pitching, Girardi has no problems, etc.
It’ll never happen, of course. But the Yankees would be better off. You could actually like that team.
Damon
Hudson
Jeter
Teixeira
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Nady
Gardner
Dump Alex and Jeter would have an MVP season.
To me the issue is not or should not be about ARod. He is being singled out (fairly or unfairly) for a practice that probably the majority of players are guilty of as well.
The greater issue is the use of PED’s in general by baseball players (and all sports for that matter). I by no means believe that ridding the game of steroids is some impossible task. I do not believe people can actually say “so what” and mutter something about entertainment value in dismissing it all.
I would like the game to be real. If I want bogus I can turn on pro wrestling.
The solution to this problem is not hard to see. But of course the things that need to be done won’t be done, that’s why we still revisit this issue every year.
Frequent, mandatory testing with a lifetime ban for cheaters. Harsh? Well it’s no different than the fate that awaits those players that gamble on the game. They have a sign posted in every clubhouse about that. Tape one up above that one for PED’s too.
m -
Yeah, that’s what I’ve gathered from everything I’ve read as well. It was getting tough to be paying Vlad that much money for him to just sit on the bench every night. I actually think Shannon Brown could turn out to be a good get for the Lakers. We’re in need of another PG. He’s big for a PG (6-4) like Phil likes and he was both impressive against us when we played them the other night and while I watched him at Michigan State. I think at the very least he’s better than Yue.
Is that really Pete? I think I’ve entered the twilight’s zone.
Surprised no one remembers it.
Kay and Sterling made a big deal about it. With good reason.
Pete, I think you’re disrespecting Swisher with that lineup. Not to mention Melky!
Jennifer,
I agree, that can’t possibly be Pete. Even I don’t think he’s THAT biased.
I don’t recall anyone advocating dumping Giambi or Pettitte.
The only thing i’m concerned with right now is whether Edwar Ramirez has learned a new out-pitch.
Peter latest comment illustrates why he should stick to reporting. Analysis isn’t his strong suit. Crucify the guy for five years and then blame him for media trouble. Rather than adding another bit of idiocy to your A-Rod loathing kabuki narrative, why not do some actual reporting and try to figure out the identity of the other 103 players named. Because I’m sure that you’d advocate that the Mets drop Carlos Delgado, or the Red Sox David Ortiz, etc., just the same.
Nice to see a voice of the liberal press determining that somebody’s guilty for not saying anything. And, what would you think if he said that he did nothing? Assume that he’s guilty because like 75% of the country gets a sun tan and 40% of the people color their hair, or wear colored contacts that aren’t prescription? Should everybody believe this because the oh so honest and above board media says so? How many names were wrong in the Mitchell report that was released by the media? Or the Grimsley Report?
Clare
People were advocating dumping Giambi. In fact the Yankees were looking to get out of his contract.
Pete,
Your post rings very true.
The only question I have is how does Alex cost Girardi his job? Do you mean if the team is so upset they can’t perform and fall behind? Do you mean if he fails to handle the media? I seriously don’t know if there’s a manager in baseball who could be adept at handling this situation, including Joe Torre. This is a bit different from the Giambi situation – perhaps not a lot different, but enough different – because it is ARod.
I agree ARod’s gotta take the initiative in this. He can’t hide. But frankly, because he started out as a player that does not exactly inspire warmth in some crowds, I don’t know if it will be okay even if he does most of us think is the right thing.
It’s a mess for the Yankees. There now has to be a lot of damage control. Thanks a lot. Right?
Jeter had an MVP season in ’06 with Arod there. That season was probably the height of the Arod distractions until this. Jeter didn’t win it, but he had a better season than the ’08 MVP, Pedroia. By the way, why is he nearly bald at 25 years old? Hmmmmm. J/k, as I said before, it is a bad thing for baseball to continue to try to expose every player.
I didn’t think it was Pete either, but isn’t his last name a naughty word in the spam filter?
Sadly, Jeter was robbed of the MVP in the 2006 season and I doubt he’ll put up MVP-worthy numbers in his remaining years, A-rod or no A-rod.
“Release Alex without pay and let him take them to court. Sign Orlando Hudson to play second and move Cano to third base.”
for some reason, my brain went to the” release arod” move as a proactive chess move by the yankees.
when pete and i have the same thought, because we come from such polar opposite thinking usually, it’s something to maybe pay attention to.
the last time i remember being in agreement like this was when pete strongly believed .as i did, that the yankees were rushing hughes by bringing him up when they did in 2007.
mel- I think so, but those posts don’t sound like Pete they are so off the wall.
Doreen,
Haven’t you learned to not take Pete seriously re: Girardi?
1. It was Pete.
2. Pedroia is lucky they don’t test for Rogaine.
Clare:
Nobody takes steroids once. You just don’t. You take them as part of a cycle that lasts for months. The steroids he took were particularly powerful. He also took two different kinds. Those are not drugs you find at Gold’s Gym. They are expensive designer steroids. It’s naive to think he tried it in 2003, had an MVP season then never did it again.
Further, what does it matter what 103 other players did? Does that make it right? I’m not following that logic. So because a lot of players cheated, that’s OK?
I’m sure some people will blindly support him. But there is right and there is wrong and taking steroids is wrong, period.
Dave, nowhere in there was there a comparison.
“worst thing SINCE” does not mean a comparison
Pete- No it doesn’t make it right. But it isn’t right for Alex to be the scape goat when 103 other players tested positive as well.
Michael Phelps is the Happiest guy in the world right now
Amen Pete.
I don’t see how that line is so blurred with so many people.
John_Halfz
“His name came out because Selena targeted him.”
I hear you. Maybe somebody violated a court order to spill the beans and there is hopefully a price to pay for those who did. But I’m past the point of blaming the media for printing the truth. As Jim Bouton observed the other day regarding his Ball Four days, Torre’s new book and the players’ claims that their privacy was violated: (I’m paraphrasing)
If you want privacy, be a shoe salesman, not a pro ballplayer.
Maybe Selena’s next book will be about Ortiz. Or somebody else’s book. Believe me, if there is a story about Papi, it may get out. But you have to recognize that A-Rod has something in common with Clemens and Bonds: they have made probably as many if not more enemies than friends in the game.
Papi on the other hand is pretty universally loved in the game and in the DR, and comes across as a pretty humble, genuine guy, for a rich superstar, that is. Maybe that has something to do with sources not coming forward as quickly to rat out Papi. Either that or Papi is the only clean player in the game.
“2. Pedroia is lucky they don’t test for Rogaine.”
nick in sf-
why? he sure doesn’t use it
Doreen:
Girardi has enough problems without this in his lap. The manager in this case needs to say the right thing, shield the player from distractions and represent the organization in a forthright way. Joe is good at managing games, not bad situations.
This is a guy who panicked when Mo had a sore shoulder and got caught in a lie by Cashman. Now A-Rod is on the juice?
lol central ct yankee.
unless it’s found out that was a designer bong
I was not claiming that Arod should be excused for juicing, but that people on the “clean” side are acting like scum bags. Everyone involved in MLB made bank while these guys turned into Macy’s parade balloons. Now writers and owners are pulling this sanctimonious junk and “protecting” the HOF from Big Mac and eventually Bonds and Clemons maybe Arod. A good chunk of players were “cheating” and there is no way to really know who was or wasn’t. So either they should all be barred or they should be allowed in to the HOF should they merit it.
If players get caught now with PEDs being illegal and the testing not being for survey purposes then I’m all for holding it against them.
In my opinion Baseball stats from the “steroids” era (aka the Selig era) should be judged against themselves and Ruth and Aaron, Mantle, Mays and Maris should be compared separately. If juicing was as common as its beginning to look and as former players have claimed, then Bonds’ numbers can be fairly compared to his contemporaries’ and he is HOF worthy. Same with Clemons and probably the better half of the “Bash Brothers”.
Boring singles hitters are starting to look better and better. It also seems like that for as much crap as the Yankees take from this the big players getting caught up were juicing for other teams. The A’s look worse and worse along with the Rangers. I always thought they looked big down in Texas. It also adds a new dimension to “money ball”.
How is Alex the scapegoat for 103 other players? Please explain that. He took steroids. He’s the best player in the game. That’s pretty much all you need to know.
I guarantee you none of the other players are A-Rod or the guy expected to break the HR record while clean.
randy: he might use it, but it’s never been proven effective on Keebler Elves.
Randy
I don’t know. Pedroia looks like most of the after pictures of those guys that use rogaine and stuff like that. Always just a little peachfuzz growing, never the full mop.
SO did you see the list Pete? Of course he is the scape goat. His name is the only one released. Illegally I might add.
I stopped reading Peter’s rant after he decided that A-Rod coloring his hair was indicative of his desire for attention. I guess my mother uses steroids, too…..
Pete -
What I’m saying is – does that really cost him his job? I don’t know how anyone would handle this particular situation. And further – who would take the job?????
“Derek is also known for his ability to hit the ball with power to all fields. Derek has hit a home run to the upper deck in right field in Yankees stadium twice during his career. He has also hit a home run off the facing of the upper deck. That’s some serious pop to the opposite field.”
insidetheyankees.com
Legen….wait for it… dary!
If Girardi gets fired because he doesn’t say the right things to the press regarding A-rod, then the Steinbrenners are crazier than I thought. He should be judged by how he manages games and not his relationship with the media.
“Taking steroids is wrong. Period”….. ***unless you’re a fun loving party guy that’s loads of laughs and only misses 2 seasons worth of production and three others that were less than average for DH/1st baseman***
The highlighted parts are the important ones.
Pete -
You can guarantee Pujols isn’t one of those names?
Scared of the Wall
The media was spoiled with Joe T. They expect Joe G to act the same way and clearly he doesn’t.
While the idea of dumping Arod and losing the distractions is appealing, these are (again) results from a survey. It was taken under the assumption that it was anonymous. He also signed his current contract after Baseball instituted the testing policy. To the extent that the testing works he should be clean now or the Yankees would know about it.
It is also no sure thing that the player brought in to replace him was also playing clean.
I think the point was that Girardi’s job would be at risk if the Yanks flounder again, not because of saying the wrong thing about Arod.
End this soap opera. Simply release Rodriguez and eat the contract. It’s a move that will play well from a public opinion standpoint, and resonate favorably inside that clubhouse. Be done with this whole thing. Admit that it didn’t work and move on. People actually question whether Jeter is going to get another contract, yet you’re going to keep this knucklead for another nine years? Please. Just be done with this whole thing.
M, I hardly think I’m on the edge. I’m upset and I have every right to be. As I posted earlier, I don’t take anything Pete says about A-Rod seriously and I quit his rant mid-read. That’s what I intend. to do with newspapers/sports radio (won’t read at all, won’t listen); this way, I won’t get upset.
What can I say that hasn’t been said? A-Rod was stupid, foolish and he cost himself more than can be said. I’m angry, sad and frustrated at him. That said, I still like him. If Pete doesn’t, or anyone else doesn’t, that’s their right. Different strokes for different folks.
John Halfz:
So if I list the other 103 players, Alex is innocent? I’m not following that.
Meanwhile, Green Beret, please point out to me what character trait of Alex you like so much. I’m curious. As a conservative hater of the media, I would like to get that view.
If you have a grandchild or a son or whatever, what is it about Alex that you hold up to them as an example?
I for one have a problem that the writer of this story has a book coming out in 3 months about ARod.
I’m not doubting the validity of her indictment but something about it reeks of venom.
She also stands to gain a few bucks.
Peter,
Why is it naive to think that players who were taking steroids back before testing and penalties for testing positive were instituted stopped once the testing started?
I think most players were taking steroids back in the day. You can look at offense and HRs across the league as a whole and see the decline at the same time testing was implemented. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
And, I don’t think we need to rush to judgment here based on a report from anonymous sources. For example, the names from the Grimsley affidavit turned out to be wrong.
One thing, is I think Mitchell should refund the megamillions he was paid. The whole point of the Mitchell report was to put the steriod era in the past. As was apparent at the time, that report was so sloppy and incomplete that it was worthless. And, each time one of the 103 names on the list is released, it will become more apparent what a farce it was.
And, for everyone who’s rushing to banish ARod here, just exactly how confident are you that no beloved Yankee from the Dynasty years is one of the 103?
Part of the job of any manager or coach is to focus the team on the game, not distractions. Girardi will have his hands full with that. For the Yankees to do well, they will need to find a way around this. Much of that will depend on how the manager handles it. That would appear fairly obvious.
Yeah the Yankees are going to eat 250 million.
tell me another one.
Media fabrication of a story. I don’t like Alex Rodriguez. I can’t imagine ever wanting to spend time with him. He’s embarrassingly phony.
All of that said, it’s now clearer and clearer that this wasn’t the alleged 5% that MLB pretended. It’s a systemic thing, to baseball’s core. People are still getting caught. People are still willing to cheat despite the growing (though still small) likelihood that they’ll be caught.
What’s our response? Vilify the guy who happens to be the best baseball player. Whence the animus? The guy tanned in Central Park during a playoff hunt, and bagged an aged pop singer. All irrelevant minutiae and the sort of stuff that makes “sports reporting” so retrograde and done.
There are players on the 25 man roster of every team who will show up for work on 4/5 with anabolic steroids coursing through their veins. No one will bother really investigating the extent of the problem, whether it’s a problem, why it can or can’t be helped, etc. They’ll be too busy writing puff articles about A-Rod.
Sam,
I totally agree with you. I was basically telling my friends the same thing. If he really did do something he needs to be as honest as possible, it’s the only way. He needs to realize this will only get worse if he denies it.
LOL Now A-Rod is to blame for Jeter’s not winning the MVP……..
Alex went from a single mother household with a mom working two jobs growing up with next to nothing to being one of the best players in the history of the game. That’s a tale I’d gladly tell my son if I had one. I’d also point to his unquestioned work ethic as one of the primary forces which caused that ascension from nothing. Come on, Pete, you’re being a little ridiculous here. You didn’t treat Giambi with anywhere close to this disdain. In fact, you treated him exactly the opposite. What character trait of his would you tell your son/grandson about????
Clare:
Read Will Carroll’s latest story on Baseball Prospects. He interviewed a doctor about PEDs that cannot be detected by current tests. That is true for HGH and some forms of synthetic testosterone.
Testing only stops those guys who aren’t wealthy enough (or smart enough) to find the best doctors and chemists.
If any player in 2003 was spending the money to get the drugs that Alex used, he loses the benefit of the doubt for what happens in the years that followed.
Obviously nobody knows for sure. But the idea that he took what he took, was the MVP and then quit doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Jennifer:
I know, I was kind of intending my comment to be a dig at the press, obviously Girardi won’t be fired unless this team really underachieves. I think it’s wishful thinking on Pete’s part that A-rod’s positive steroid test will result in the undoing of Girardi…
I don’t hold any athlete up to anything. My kids and grandkids were raised to have role models that were parents, teachers and people that contributed more to life than hitting a homer, running for a touchdown or someone sinking a half court basket.
They wee also taught that until all the real facts are known, not to believe anything in a newspaper that isn’t confirmed to be absolute. I didn’t teach then anything about disliking media..that was for them to decide. I have my own reasons.
rodg12
The hard partying? The partying during 2003 ws when he couldn’t play in a game that night?
“The Yankees now have this albatross to deal with for nine long seasons. *Everything he does will be discounted as the work of a cheater and that will reflect poorly on the team.*”
Couldn’t agree more Pete. One you are labeled a cheater you never recover.
In fact – in the writing business – plagiarism is probably the worst sin. It’s cheating.
Here are a few people who committed plagiarism and of course everything they did afterwards was discounted.
Martin Luther King
George Harrison
Alex Haley
Joe Biden
Doris Kearns Goodwin
I could go on and on, but you get the point.
IM going back to reading my book. Reading these comments and reactions are down right depressing. As I said earlier in the day rightly or wrongly none of this is surprising to me as I have always gone on the assumption that anyone and everyone could have been taking the juice during this era even those whom we think there is no way they could have. The players, the union and MLB itself allowed it to go on too long with no penalities or testing or accountability. These are professional athletes whose job (ie this is how they make their money) makes them want to do better, hit better, pitch better, run better thus make more money. You cant say you would never do it until you were under that professional circumstance.
I certainly am no psychologist but based on what I have read or seen about AROD this is a guy who wants to be accepted by those in the game, on his team etc it seems to me that the Texas Rangers had an locker room full of users and well respected players at the time Canseco, Pudge, Juan GOn etc there was certiany something fishy going on in Texas and maybe this was his way of fitting in and for someone who wants to be accepted.
More than anything this is a very sad day for baseball not because Arod allegedly did roids but because once again the season starts with the overshadowing of this era and what everyone ivolved with baseball did or did not do to deal with this problem and how they all allowed it to prosper and the ONLY reason why they clamped down was that Congress forced their hand with anti-trust issues.
Rodg:
Alex has an unquestioned work ethic? Not after today he doesn’t.
I would never hold a ballplayer up to my kid. But Green Beret’s point is that you can’t believe what I said about Alex. OK, so if that is true I’d like to know what to believe then. If I’m wrong about Alex’s character flaws, then I’m hoping Green Beret can tell me what is right.
I listened to this conditioning coahc from the Rangers. This guys statement makes absolutely no sense.
He questions Alex’s workout performance in the weight room and says that his game performance is not on par with what happens in the weight room.
If one were to take some steroids, would it not make your workout performance superior to all others?
Another hting he says is that A-Rod, Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez s aid his workouts were to hard.
To me this defies all logic. If anything, a player on steroid would have tremendous workouts, topping the charts. Not to mention awesome recovery time, so they would not complain about workouts. It just does not make sense to me.
Peter:
The point is that you’re not doing your job in faith. I mean, you can report on a story that Selena Roberts already reported. Or you can take a new angle. I, for one, would like the opinion of someone other than Don Fehr and Bud Selig as regards how widespread the problem is. I suspect contamination rates approaching 1/2 of active MLB players. Could be totally off base.
If it’s a cultural thing, A-Rod isn’t absolved of blame or guilt. But it contextualizes it. And, really, that’s what we need: context. There’s much more of an interesting story in baseball’s pathetic hush and cover suppression techniques. From a sociological standpoint, it’d be interesting to know what factors influence peoples’ revulsion to steroid stories. What’s the next step for baseball? Why is baseball the only sport saddled with this problem when it’s highly likely that all four major sports are riddled with “cheaters”? All of these would make better reading than “ZOMG Madonna Rodriguez ate juice sez Serena Roberts and ESPN and string him up and release him.”
Because, you know, it would be kind of stupid if you “released” A-Rod but then realized that you had 11 other users on the squad.
Can you imagine what Girardi thinks now of that sign in the tunnel to the field, the one Jeter appropriated, that quotes DiMaggio: “I want to thank God for making me a Yankee.”
Pete
“You could actually like that team.”
You’re not a Yankee fan so maybe you can’t understand this but 1 guys presence doesn’t make me like the team any more or less.
“Dump Alex and Jeter would have an MVP season.”
It didn’t happen from 1996-2003 so why would I think it would happen now.
In the carefree days of the the Torre book, someone on TV was discussing how Jeter and A-Rod were polar opposites. My husband asked me, “are you a Jeter or an A-Rod?”
Most people would initially want to say Jeter because that is perceived as being what is good and right. But the fact is, many of us here are actually A-Rod’s.
We are obsessed with baseball, can quote stats quicker than our cell phone numbers, we feel the need to explain ourselves, have insecurities and when given the chance between money or a championship yesterday, more took the money than the ring which showed taking personal achievement over team goals.
(I need to use a smiley, I haven’t all day)
Pete has always written stories about Alex as if he had some vendetta against him. You made it perfectly clear how much you despise and hate the ground that guy walks on. I think you and the other writers would give more love to O.J. Simpson than you guys would to Arod
All this tabloid magazine about Alex (satan) and Madonna and Derek Jeter (jesus christ) and Minka Kelly relationships sound like you’re reading the National Enquirere.
It’s always been very obvious that Pete like most of the new york sports writers hate Arod guts so much because he doesn’t sit and have coffee with him or joke with them as Jeter does.
Pete what’s it going to take for you and the new york press and those yankee fans who always point the finger at Arod, constantly using him as the reason for the Yankee’s failure. Arod finally losing it and blowing his brains out?
My gosh man, I am so sick of you writers using Arod as a top story to only publicly humiliate the guy, cause fans to hate him just because he’s not Jeter. Jeter has my respect but he is not the entire team. I blame you writers more than I blame Arod. Even a couple of the sports writer in Texas have said the new york press treats any arod story as a trash tabloid story to lure readers.
What’s next, Arod caught picking his nose but instead of using his finger he used a tissue? Of course because it was Arod he would get criticized for it.
I would hope nothing bad ever happens to this guy or you would not have anything to write about. If Arod vanished from the face of the earth, you people would go nuts. It;s obvious he gives you writers something to write about and lure readers. Is a shame you use the guy for your own pleasures.
I don’t care how bad and a jerk you think the guy is, he dosen’t deserve the 24/7 bashing he constantly gets from the media.
I had to vent and rant. Not just because of the Arod thing, but the constant news every single day of what Arod did wrong. They guy can’t even catch a cab without some writer trying to bash him to entertain readers
Peter,
Key words there are “obviously no one knows for sure.”
What follows is simply your theory. Obviously, you think it’s a reasonable theory, however, I think it’s colored by your obvious dislike of the man. You would have more credibility here if you didn’t link to every negative, trivial, off-field “news” story about the man, and if you were better able to hide your disdain for his appearance, hairstyles, clothing choices, and friends/alleged girlfriends.
Well, it would help Girardi if guys didn’t go into the season assuming he couldn’t handle it. We won’t know. Yeah, he had his failings last season – he’s not smooth with the media and he’s definitely not good at saying the right nothing. But I think this is a situation where the entire Yankee organization needs to be on board with their approach. I don’t think Girardi will be thrown to the wolves here without some sort of gameplan, and I would think, unfortunately, the first team meeting is going to have to address the team’s approach.
A lot depends on how Alex handles his part.
And I still need to ask the question – if Alex handles this clumsily and the situation doesn’t calm down somewhat – who the heck are the Yankees going to hire in the middle of a season? Don Mattingly? Who will want that job?
So, we go from an allegation of testing positive from unnamed sources – to total guilt.
This is what makes people distrust and hate the media.
Peter, that is quite a leap to claim that he absolutely took these drugs. Is there proof positive or is it the word from unnamed sources that are “familiar” with the list?
This holier than thou stuff is why the MSM is losing credibility. That along with the constant bias they show.
A reporter puts this out there, and by God that makes them guilty without any doubt. This is no longer America.
It’s amazing that Arod is already guilty based on 4 anonymous “sources”.
This situation demands that due diligence be done before anyone jumps to judgement.
DT:
So if the Red Sox signed Bonds and he homered to beat the Yankees in Game 7 of the ALCS, that would be cool with you? You’d consider that an untarnished accomplishment?
Clare:
You like Alex. Which is fine. You think he took PEDs, was the MVP and then never used them again? What do you think is more likely, that he quit or that he kept trying to get away with it?
It’s no more your job to tell me what to believe than it is mine to tell you. There are more fabricated stories to slant a reader to the writers point of view than there is that contains actual facts that requires the reader to decide on his own what is fact or fiction.
Pete –
you changed the discourse. Is plagiarism cheating?
Can you recover? Or are you tainted for life?
You could even start, pete, by spending less time thinking of creative punishments for a-rod, and more doing the actual nuts and bolts reporting attendant to the story of re-reporting selena roberts’ story. Anyone employed by MLB or MLBPA has zero credibility when it comes to refuting allegations of “tipping.” And if tipping occurred, it’s suggestive of the notion that most players (and therefore most stars) juice creatively. From there we might get more stories.
pat- It seems to me most of the writers in NY dislike the Yankees, and jump at any chance to trash players, managers, owners, etc. While in Boston the players, manager and owners are held up to a god like status. Even Manny most of his time there was held to a god like status. That ended of course when he was gone and tore the cover off the ball.
So if the Red Sox signed Bonds and he homered to beat the Yankees in Game 7 of the ALCS, that would be cool with you? You’d consider that an untarnished accomplishment?
Well, how bout if the Yanks signed Giambi, and he hit 2 hrs Vs Pedro in a game 7 to win that
Pete -
You’ve been inside the Yankees clubhouse. Please tell me how much work you see Alex putting in on a daily basis. Does he work out hard everyday? Does he put more time in the weight room, in the cage, and during infield than most guys? Weren’t you the one who wrote about his tough workouts helping out Cano and Melky? One alleged positive test takes away all you’ve seen of his work ethic? Wow. You’re off base here Pete.
Also, back to my other point, can you guarantee to me that Pujols is not one of the 103 names that tested positive? Absolutely guarantee it? Because if he is one of the 103 names and he hasn’t been named but ARod has, that means ARod is being made out to be a scapegoat.
“Yeah the Yankees are going to eat 250 million. tell me another one.”
there is a precedent for releasing a player that violates the conduct part of the contract.
the rockies cut denny neagle for a john charge and while there was a settlement later, it forced the player into the embarrassing position of having to keep the issue in the papers as he’s suing for his money.
i’m not saying that the yankees should have a knee jerk reaction to the alex revelation, but if it does become without a doubt that he is a chronic user, it’s a move they could make.
as a yankee fan, i’d very much like to watch a team that didn’t have the baggage of steroids hanging over it.
You are the walrus:
We’re talking Sports Illustrated, not some supermarket tabloid. You think Time Life Inc. would let their employees write that story without knowing who the sources were? Do you really think they woudn’t have a bunch of lawyers go over every word?
The reporter went to Alex and said, “This is what we are reporting, what is your comment?” He said, “Talk to the union.”
If you were innocent and that was you, would you say “Talk to the union.”? I would guess not.
“So if the Red Sox signed Bonds and he homered to beat the Yankees in Game 7 of the ALCS, that would be cool with you? You’d consider that an untarnished accomplishment?”
Actually we’d all be too busy bashing Cashman for not signing him first to consider it at all. (Emoticon of humor)
A fan of the Texas Rangers warned those of us who post on my forum that we would grow to hate Arod. This is what I posted on my forum:
I don’t know about anyone else, but Arod to me is no better than Barry Bonds. His legacy is now crap!. Does everyone remember how Gary said we would grow to hate Arod, how everyone called him a cancer in the clubhouse? We forgave his trying to knock the ball out of the first baseman’s glove during the playoffs, for yelling to distract McDonald during that game with the Jays, we tried to overlook his getting caught with a stripper in Toronto, for frequenting a poker club where there was illegal gambling, for the reports of going to stripclubs in the City. But this? This is yet another blackeye to the team at the hands of this loose canon who very well may not be the most gifted athlete in the game. For all we know he may be nothing more than the most pumped up player in the game.
Gary wherever you are – you were so right.
****************************************
Please stop trying to throw out red herrings. When the information about Giambi and Bonds was released in the Balco case, I don’t remember the firestorm being about the information being released illegally or who else might be named in the Balco case. The firestorm was about the allegations that Bonds and Giambi had used. And Giambi took it on the chin until he came out and made a statement and apologized.
This is about Arod kids. If more information comes out it will be about anyone else who is named. Right now, at this point in time, a short while before spring training, with a phenomenal team put together, this is about Alex Rodriguez, the person called both the best player and the most gifted athlete in the game.
Mark MacGwire will never go into the Hall of Fame because of his use of anabolic steroids; Barry Bonds is probably out of the game of baseball because of his alleged use; Roger Clemens has staunchly denied using and we have all seen where that has gone and what has happened to his once glorious name.
Selena Roberts has leaked that Arod tested positive – not that someone alleged they sold him drugs – that an MLB administered test came out positive.
If you think this is over, will blow over, will not have profound and lasting effects, will not serve as a major distraction to the Yankee clubhouse, I have some land underwater for you in Florida.
This is ugly and can only get uglier. You’re not talking a player who has been wildly embraced by Yankee fans to begin with.
Just my opinion.
Whoa. Pete with the back & forth.
He missed us.
Pete, when someone jumps me in a gym on a Thursday afternoon, and throws that at me, yeah, I’d probably say something like that.
If The Red Sox signed Bonds, and he passed every drug test during the year – no, I wouldn’t have a problem.
You have to play by the rules that are in place.
I am finally watching the Roberts/MLB interview. Funny that she respects the anonnimity of her informants – but she disregards that the players were tested under anonnimity.
Despite media laziness/futility, I think we can put aside the “innocent until proven guilty” canard. A-Rod definitely juiced. Many players definitely juice. Doesn’t absolve any of them.
But this is a potential watershed moment, the kind where reporters could be useful. MLBPA holds the cards, and rightly: players put people in the seats, not owners. But the pendulum has swung pretty radically in players’ favors in the last 33 years. Seems like the only credible way to address the problem is ultra draconian penalties. My guess is that it’s not just the players union who’d oppose those. My guess is that Bud’s known about this problem, and just how bad it is, since well before he called that All-Star Game.
Let’s see some stories on the insane Baghdad Bob cover-up of this issue. Media is complicit and guilty, too. Unless the media disclaims responsibility for the 2003 hero worship of Tank McGwire and Blimpy Sosa.
lol Bronx. and congrats for holding off on following through with the smiley face thingy.
dt- can you say hypocrite? She as going on and on about how the test is anonymous. Oh really? Why do you have the results than? Why did you stop your witch hunt with one player?
I’m not saying he did or didn’t. But I hope all the names on the list comes out. Until then he’s innocent. The negative is always the big headline. And the retraction is usually buried somewhere in the middle in tiny print.
My feeling on the big picture –
Every record attained during the steroid era, pre-testing, is assumed to be tainted. Every player is assumed to be dirty, playing against dirty players – so in effect you have a level playing field. I don’t think any championship is to be considered tainted during the era, because it’s equally likely that for every player we know was using on the championship team, there was an equal number of PED users on the opposing teams that we just don’t know about yet, or may never know about for sure.
Once testing was instituted, I’m going to assume, absent a positive test, that the players are clean.
I think management, players, the union, and the press are all complicit in the steroid era. Everyone knew it was going on. I remember when I went to my first game in great seats, my Dad and I were amazed at the size and bulk of the pleyers – and we knew they had chemical help. You can’t tell me anyone involved didn’t know, but everyone (including the press) turned a blind eye at the time.
All those who didn’t want to know back then have no right to get all self-righteous now about the purity of the game.
“Whoa. Pete with the back & forth.
He missed us.”
m-
not only that he’s doing it for free. he’s not on the clock on this one.
Rodg12:
The point of steroids is that it helps your muscles recover quickly from stress, enabling you to work out longer than you normally would be able to. So perhaps the reason Alex was working out so diligently was because he was chemically enhanced. I don’t know. But the suspicion is there.
DT:
I know several writers who were fired or suspended for plagiarism. I don’t trust a thing they write any more. It’s cheating and dishonest.
In general, I wish to hell this had not happened. I want to write about baseball games, that is the job I signed up for. I love baseball and the Yankees have an interesting team. The very last thing I want is to cover a circus.
It’s too bad. I would have liked to tell people when I’m an old man that I covered the great Roger Clemens and the great Alex Rodriguez, the best pitcher and slugger of their times. Now, sadly, the sport we love proved to be loaded with cheaters. It sucks.
Guess we’re not going to be treated to any actual reportage. Until Pete disengages from the mindset that his only duty is to convince us of Alex’s guilt and other unsavory qualities, we’re unlikely to see this story outside the vacuum. I’m holding Pete to account, but we all know that his pals at the other locals are all either of the same caliber or much, much worse. I can only dream of tomorrow’s full page issue of the Daily News written entirely by Mike Lupica. What could be better than a 78,000 word encomium on A-Rod’s destruction of American values?
Pete I know for a fact that Time Magazine and SI use to get a lot of stories about Michael Jordan and his behind scene escapades that would blow his fans off. They would constantly get photos, but there was no writer especially the SI writers would do anything with the story. They would often trade and send it to Star magazine or some other trash mag, because the writers did not want any flack from the fans and they all wanted to remain on Jordan’s good side so he would still give them interviews. Same can be said for another legend player.
I had a professor in college to tell me that when he was a writer for one of the papers he hated Deion Sanders so much that he would say things to get a rise out of the guy to give his column more readers. He said he despised the guy because Sanders stood him up for an interview. Turns out one of Sander’s kids had to be rushed to the hospital and he said he felt bad about trashing him and brining out some third party dirt he had heard on the guy.
I know writers pick on the least admired in the press. They will do anything to protect the fan favorites even when they see things on the road that player should not be doing.
Randy 1 (for the sake of closure)
I posted a source for Jeter’s Upper deck opposite field HRs above.
I just hope that no other Yankees are on the list.
Especially Teixeira.
“It’s amazing that Arod is already guilty based on 4 anonymous “sources”.”
Let’s be real. When Arod was asked about it he had no comment except “talk to the union.” That is not the response of an innocent man. Really.
Everyone is entitled to her or his opinion obviously. I was ballistic when it came out Giambi used and wanted him drummed from the team. I am not going to be any less forgiving of Arod. He lied on national television. He even lied about being tested.
It is what it is, but let’s not be totally silly about what it is. The top player in the game testing positive for steroids isn’t something that is going to go away or morph into something less sensational because it wasn’t supposed to be leaked to the press.
scapegoat – a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place
source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scapegoat
Pretty sure that definition fits Alex to a T in this situation. 1 person (or make it 6 – McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Palmeiro) bearing the blame for hundreds if not thousands of other players who were users. Not to mention all the others who were complicit in the proliferation of steroids in baseball (writers, owners, managers, commissioners, etc.). I’d call that making them scapegoats.
John H.
I agree. This is ANOTHER chance for baseball to take the lead in ridding their sport of PED’s. They have had several chances before and fumbled (to use a football term here – maybe I should’ve said bobbled it.)
It can be done. The question has always been do both sides really want to?
Any anonymous test that has the named coded is not anonymous. Somebody knows, and in cases like this, it’s more than somebody.
I just think this whole thing sucks.
A confidential report is leaked by 4 anonymous sources. Who are these people and how did this confident report ever get leaked? Then, Selena Roberts says she gave Arond the chance to respond? BS – she jumped him in a gym without any announcement, and expected him to say the right thing. Crap. Then, why is Arod the only name leaked?
I don’t care if its SI or the Enquirer, due diligence needs to take place before we label Arod guilty and these circumstances reek of sensationalism.
Pete
What was Alex suppose to say. Great job Selena !!! You got me what took you so long.
Is it possible Arod didn’t know he failed a drug test in 2003 until this past Thursday? Wasn’t the 2003 test suppose to be anonymous as part of a survey.
MlB spent 20 million on the Mitchell Report and all he found was a NY Mets towel boy and a fired NYPD cop with fake credentials to be a trainer. Why didn’t Senator Mitchell find what Selena Roberts found?
DT =
Refresh my memory – did she or someone else say that one of the reasons she went with the story was that he didn’t deny it?
I would think that’s a stretch, because I think since she had 4 unnamed sources confirm the information she would have run with the story regardless of what ARod said. He could have denied up and down and six ways to Sunday, and she was going to run with this story based on the 4 sources.
It’s 2009. You’re just learning NOW that the sport you loved is loaded with cheaters? You didn’t suspect it for a second in 2003, when Mark McGwire hoisted his son above his head with two fingers? And you honestly think it’s confined to baseball?
It’s like coming to the realization that cigarettes probably cause lung cancer, oh, last week.
Pete -
Stop ducking the Pujols and Giambi questions Pete and just come clean with your total bias against ARod.
Pete
“Testing only stops those guys who aren’t wealthy enough (or smart enough) to find the best doctors and chemists.”
Wealthy enough? Would $500 for a 12 week cycle be expensive to any MLB player in 2003? I’m guessing most blow $2000 a year on strip clubs, beers or chicken wings.
….and why is this coming out right before Spring Training? Media timing. $$$$$$
I feel like I’m watching the WWF.
Pete should put this poll question up:
If the Yankees have the opportunity, should they part ways with Alex Rodriguez?
Yes?
No?
He won’t, so chime in.
I agree with what SJ wrote earlier today – this will not get pretty in the trenches.
IMO – this will lead to a baseball civil war.
The players did their initial survey testing under the cloak of anonymity. That trust has been broken. Who is at fault – really doesn’t matter to the players.
This is akin to a writer going into gather a story and gathering quotes ‘off the record” – and then weeks later seeing their quotes in the paper. To the player does it matter who leaked the quote? The reporter – The editor?
The bottom line is trust has been broken.
pat
that $2000 figure sounds about right to me! and I don’t even play anymore! lol.
“Randy 1 (for the sake of closure)
I posted a source for Jeter’s Upper deck opposite field HRs above.”
uncle ellsworth-
i don’t doubt you read it , but i’d have to see video to believe it because it’s just so hard to imagine.
Pete loved Giambi, he hates A-Rod. There you have the difference between his treatment of the two. We were even treated to a sweet, gushy blog thread about how Jason was going to be sorely missed because he was such a nice guy. If Pete was so pissed off about steroids, he would have written an appropriate farewell to Jason (meaning, goodbye and don’t let the door hit you on the way out). He didn’t. That is fact one. Fact two – A-Rod uses steroids – he’s forever a cheater. His work ethic must be fake and he lacks a semblance of a character. It’s easy to come to the conclusion, once you put 2 + 2 together, that there is a sweet little double standard at work.
It’s not like ARod doesn’t know who Selena Roberts is and that she is writing a book about him.
She probably would have gotten the same response if she asked where he got his hair frosted and his fake tan.
ARod should just come out and tell the truth. That he wanted to fail the test because we was afraid MLB wouldn’t get the 5% quota it needed to install testing. He did it to save the game from itself. (insert your own emoticon)
Bronx Jeers -
You know, I could almost picture ARod saying that! (j/k, of course)
I think it’s fair to ask though, especially in light of the “tipping” allegations, when did Alex stop using steroids?
I saw it myself the post was just for support. Nobody remembers this?
Anyway no big deal.
I hope Pete didn’t go to bed.
This is getting good.
Before we label Arod guilty, lets see who the sources are and what exactly they know.
Doreen, don’t be surprised if Roberts’ four unnamed sources is actually one source. When we deal with informal complaints where the complainant wants action but doesn’t want to be identified, we will often allude to multiple complainants in an effort to protect the identity of the one. Also Roberts could very well be referring to four sources to make her story seem more credible than it might seem with one and Alex not agreeing with her.
trisha – NY Yankees, 2009 World Champions
February 8th, 2009 at 12:39 am
“It’s amazing that Arod is already guilty based on 4 anonymous “sources”.”
Let’s be real. When Arod was asked about it he had no comment except “talk to the union.” That is not the response of an innocent man. Really.
————————————————————
Since when? This “person” has been bird dogging Rodriguez for 5 years. She/He/It has written articles on him that were not only unflattering, but mainly fabricated. She’s writing a book about him called appropriately “Hit And Run”, why in the world would he talk to her/him/it? As a lawyer, would you advise a client to talk to her/him/it? I can only assume so, since you believe he should. I pity your clients.
Since MLB can’t discuss this, the union can’t discuss it, why would Rodriguez discuss it?
Pete’s story after Giambi admitted. ADMITTED, mind you, that he used steroids.
http://tinyurl.com/ccbypn
Where’s the outrage? Calling into question whether he could be used as a role model for our sons and grandsons? Questioning everything he’s ever accomplished in his career? The calling for the Yankees to realease him from his $20 million + contract?
When Derek Jeter was accused of cheating on his New York City Taxes and they filed a lawsuit against jeter, why didn’t any of you writers try to contact him for the story.
Oh thats right all of you were afraid to asked the guy, so you new york sports writers went to the guy’s mother’s home and attacked her with embarrassing questions about her son. Rather upset the guy’s parents then to bother Jeter with those questions. I didn’t see one reporter chasing him down like they did Arod. I’m sure Jeter also knew the press was going to run that story. FUnny how it suddenly went away. No one writes about it anymore. I think that was a big deal that he’s one of the riches guys in baseball and was accused of trying to cheat on his taxes whether he knew or not. Arod would have been crucified.
Why not ask Jeter. He’s a big boy, why go to his mother? Shows how you people are a bunch of hypocrites with these players. The press were too much of cowards to question Jeter on his tax allegations.
I just hope that no other Yankees are on the list.
Especially Teixeira.
—–
Really? If I made a list of Yankees who I hope aren’t cheaters, Tex wouldn’t even be in the top five!
Peter, how about a major news network that allowed a story to run on national television right before the election that claimed things about Bush’s National Guard service? That happened.
Selena Roberts claimed that this was just to gather some profile stuff on A-Rod. That right there is quite a leap to getting profile items to getting claims from “people who are familiar with” a list in an ON GOING COURT CASE which wasn’t connected with A-Rod.
She is writing a book soon to be out that even trashes him in the title. Nah. NO agenda here, move along.
What about her hit piece on him being a “slum lord”?
Honestly, the unnamed sources leaking this should be the target of the government. They broke the law by talking about this in the first place. This isn’t a settled case.
I also remember that there was a newspaper article that stated that in a sealed court case record Pettitte was named as using PEDs. The records were unsealed and low and behold he wasn’t named. While subsequent information came out that he did use PEDs, that is beside the point. The point remains that reports can be wrong.
Why is it that she only got A-Rod’s name? Where is there even just one other that she named? No, only one person gets named from these unnamed sources to a reporter. What kind of responsible reporter would not follow up with trying to get other names? Would you?
This stinks. Even if this is true, which I certainly don’t know and neither do you, this is poor journalism. If she has access to people familiar with the tests the larger question is why is ONE singled out from 103 others? Bias? Agenda? Lack of curiosity? Concern about the other players?
I’m sorry, but there is no answer that A-Rod could have given this woman that would have done him any good. Had he denied it, then he lied. She knew he wouldn’t be receptive to her, the woman who trashes him every time she writes about him.
As to SI being concerned about legal ramifications, bull. They can’t be sued because A-Rod is a public figure. They are insulated by the unnamed sources. Its why the tabloids can print whatever they want, the laws are all set up to protect the press. A-Rod couldn’t bring a suit against them even if somehow he were to prove his innocence in this.
torre’s book, arod’s steroid allegations- if things happen in threes my head is going to explode
mel, the problem of course is that there is no way anyone will ever know the answer to that question, and with allegations of tipping, the suspicion of continued use will always be there.
His response telling her to talk to the union seems totally appropriate to me. Why have a union if they aren’t going to deal with this stuff?
I’m bummed about Arod and PO’d about every one pretending that he’s guiltier than the others.
Good post over at RAB that sums up my feelings about this.
“If the Yankees have the opportunity, should they part ways with Alex Rodriguez?
Yes?
No?
He won’t, so chime in.”
Good idea, m.
From a moral standpoint, the Yankees should part ways with Alex if he indeed used steroids regularly.
From a business standpoint, the Yankees should not part ways with Alex because they will have a hard time attracting free agents if they void his contract, especially since his contract has no PED clause. It would just set a poor precedent and send a bad message to the players.
The Yankees are in a tough position here. They obviously don’t want this steroid drama hanging over their heads but they can’t just cancel A-rod’s contract.
2,000$ a year on strip clubs?
If you told me ARod spent that in an hour I wouldn’t be surprised.
Stephen,
Alex WAS in my top 5.
Now it’s:
1. Jeter
2. Edwar Ramirez
3. Alexi Ramirez
4. Livan Hernandez
5. Joe Torre
Trisha =
Wow – I truly am gullible.
So, all these people saying the story was fully vetted and that SI wouldn’t run with a story like that unless it was fully vetted are either FOS or just take the word of Selena Roberts and her co-author?
So how do any of us know for a fact that it is a true story? Because he said “Talk to the union?”
Look, I would imagine he did test positive. I do not think it necessarily follows that he never stopped. You could argue the logic either way.
But as a fan, I am tired of being manipulated by the entire cast of characters in this charade.
I never thought I would read Pete getting angry about a guy cheating. He says “Nobody takes steroids once. You just don’t. It’s naive to think he tried it in 2003, had an MVP season then never did it again.”
I wonder if he has the same view of his hero Bill Belichick. He claimed a year ago that the Pats went 16-0 after Belichick was caught spying and therefore that meant their perfect season was clean. But since we now know that Pete believes that cheaters who get rewarded by their cheating dont stop but continue to cheat then I guess we are forced to believe that Pete thinks Coach Belichick found a new and more inventive way of cheating to help his team to that 16-0 record.
Or maybe he will use the excuse that everyone was doing it…oh wait.
a year? i better read these posts more thoroughly! lol
randy l
Count Joba’s DUI as the first so your head can remain intact
Doreen – She would have done the story anyways. She said she gave A-Rod her card and waited to days for a response.
My question in these situations – is what is the motive?
Doe Roberts want to sell a book? Does she want her reputation back in the good graces after her Duke sports fiasco?
If this was the initial steroids scandal story I could understand it. She isn’t even breaking the Gene Orza news – that was mentioned in the Mitchell Report.
If this was Pujols I would be saying the same thing. She isn’t exposing a scandal that could change the game. That’s already been done.
IMO – it’s a personal thing. I guess A-Rod has a lot of haters. Maybe she’s one. Join the club.
What bothers me most about this is the need to explain it to my 6-year-old son, who always pretends he’s A-Rod when hitting a wiffle ball in the back yard, before he hears about the news in school. I know baseball is a business for players. But it’s a lot more than that for many people, especially kids. The players know that, and that responsibility comes along with the millions of dollars whether the they like it or not.
trisha,
Ah. But all the stat-heads and eagle-eyed fans would be able to tell, wouldn’t they?
I think that he had to seriously think about stopping after the ’03 positive test. To much was at risk when they the tougher rules kicked in.
That’s if he took. I want to be careful with what I say. Guilty until proven innocent and all that.
i am the walrus
Was she ever sued for the articles she wrote about the Duke Lacrosse case?
it must be getting late – my spelling sucks! My kingdom for an edit button.
“Count Joba’s DUI as the first so your head can remain intact”
pat-
good idea.
m-
if livan is on that list of 103, i’ll eat my innings
DC Dad -
Tell your son to wait to make judgments until the facts come out. Maybe you can start raising a generation that actually believes the words ‘innocent until proven guilty.’ This reporter was dead wrong on the Duke scandal so it’s very possible she’s dead wrong on this.
A-Rod just needs to come out and answer all of their questions before they ask them and diffuse the whole situation. Like what Jack Ryan told the President in “Clear and Present Danger” if anyone rembers that movie.
A-Rod just needs to come out and answer all of their questions before they ask them and diffuse the whole situation. Like what Jack Ryan told the President in “Clear and Present Danger” if anyone remembers that movie.
Doreen
The story had to be vetted. SI couldn’t take the lawsuit chance.
She is relying on who she believes to be reliable sources.
Judge’s usually don’t take kindly to people breaking their seals on documents in an ongoing case. Will be interesting to see if she would like to talk to Selena Roberts to ask who felt the need to share against her orders because 4 people are alot of sources.
good point Kettle. But using the Pats coach is hitting Pete below the belt! Keep those punches up!
Jennifer, because those Duke Lacrosse players were all over the news, they became public figures. That means she couldn’t be sued for what she wrote.
Selena told Costas that she wouldn’t divulge her sources out of respect for “the process”.
The process? Is that what their calling mudraking these days?
GB as I already told DT, I did not read Roberts’ rendition.
But as is the case with Barry Bonds and every person mentioned in Canseco’s book, when asked why they didn’t sue Canseco if a lie was told, every perspicacious person knew the answer to that question: because they were all guilty as charged.
It seems that you were a Clemens holdout since you had a pretty outraged reaction to my saying it was obvious that
Clemens was guilty; I wasn’t here for Bonds discussion but I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a Bonds holdout also. It may not surprise you that the minute the Balco leaks came out, I knew Bonds was guilty, as I knew Giambi was guilty. Maybe it’s because I know a lot more about grand jury testimony that you do.
Here’s a good guess for you. Roberts wouldn’t have gone anywhere near publishing the story unless her information was solid gold.
I have no problem with you holding any opinion you choose to hold. I think my clients have always been extremely happy with my representation. They at least know I won’t lie for them and that I don’t pull any punches. In the least they have to appreciate my integrity and that I don’t provide convenient smokescreens that may help in the shortrun but that show a naked emperor as soon as the smoke clears.
That said, the situation is still as ugly as it was before I wrote this post and will only get uglier.
No one answered my question about giving up 2 draft picks for Matt Cassel and only 1 person answered my poll question.
Answer Me!
DC Dad:
The thing is, the players, just like everyone else in the world, are looking out for themselves and do not care about other people’s children. Michael Phelps sure as hell wasn’t thinking about being a role model when he was hitting the bong.
I think that athletes and celebrities should consider that they are in the public eye and people look up to them. However, they aren’t pefect and they make mistakes just like everyone else. In the end, they just care about themselves.
Pat, there is no chance of SI or Roberts being sued for the story. NONE. Look up libel and slander law. Look to where it exempts reporters and news agencies when the person is a public figure.
Vetting didn’t happen with Dan Rather’s story, as it was proven fairly quickly that the document that he had was a fake.
They have unnamed sources. That is all they need to keep credibility.
Arod was not going to talk to anyone who came up to him asking if he did steroids. Especially that woman who had nerve going around looking for him in his gym. Put yourself in his shoes..He was working out and got totally surprised by this woman talking to him. He obviously said the 1st thing that he thought of. Now he will obviously be talking with his lawyers deciding how he wants to approach this. I am sure that if he hasn’t already the Yanks want a very important meeting asap.
I guess I am still hoping that this is not true. Not only will it really hurt his legacy but knowing how he handles everything he is going to have a really hard time next season with this. The media and away fans are going to be all over him and he will be a mess. Girardi is really going to have a hard job next season making sure Arod is ok.
m- what was your Matt Cassel question?
The Duke case was a railroad job.
The DA was neglible and he got disbarred.
trisha,
How diligently do prosecutors look at the accuser in these kind of situations (like the duke case)?
Saying government documents are “sealed” is like buying a poodle, sticking a piece of scotch tape on your door and then saying you are well guarded from intruders.
What if Alex just takes his marbles and goes home? Somehow, I wouldn’t be shocked if he just retires. He can never get now from baseball what he wants the most. Maybe he just decides, I want my life back.
I don’t really want to get caught up in the “unnamed sources” stuff, as I think about this. Many stories simply don’t get told without promise of anonymity. Sometimes it’s honorable, and sometimes it’s not. It’s an imperfect system.
jennifer,
If your team was going to draft a QB or if your QB really sucked, would you trade for Cassel and give up 2 first round picks? I figure that you’d use one on Sanchez or Stafford anyway and he’d be able to play immediately.
So it would be Cassell vs Stafford vs. Sanchez.
Nice Macbeth reference
**********************************************************
Thanks for the reply, Murph – I appreciate it. Heh, Macbeth should of been in charge of the legal system – he’d have an answer for all the idiots (full of sound fury) filing trivial lawsuits, I’d bet.
What a mess, and you’re right. Its not going away anytime soon, especially for A-Rod.
By the way, nobody is immune from a lawsuit. Because someone is a public figure does not mean they can not sue the media! Whether they will prevail in a lawsuit is another story, but lots of public figures have sued publications and gotten apologies, retractions, and monetary damages for stories that were published and that were later found to be false.
Let me say this. Right now MLB officials know whether or not Arod tested positive in 2003. If he did not, you can bet your bottom dollar that the players’ union will demand a statement from them noting that though they are under court order NOT to disclose names, they feel that in the name of justice they must at least disclose that Alex Rodriguez was NOT one of the 103 players who tested positive in 2003. To say that would not be violating a court order.
And what should A-Rod say if he in fact never took any PEDs? Still say he did so it defuses the story?
These tests are generally reliable, but they also have produced false positives as well.
What happened with the samples that were tested? Are they still around so they can be tested again as verification of the first test?
What happens if the case resolves to where these names are not to be released? How do you prove either way about A-Rod being on the list? If it does come out and he is not on the list, guess what, he will still be called guilty for PED use.
m- No, as a Jet fan no way in heck would I give the Pats 2 first round picks for a guy who played his first full season since high school. Last season could have been an illusion.
trisha – NY Yankees, 2009 World Champions
February 8th, 2009 at 1:10 am
GB as I already told DT, I did not read Roberts’ rendition.
But as is the case with Barry Bonds and every person mentioned in Canseco’s book, when asked why they didn’t sue Canseco if a lie was told, every perspicacious person knew the answer to that question: because they were all guilty as charged.
It seems that you were a Clemens holdout since you had a pretty outraged reaction to my saying it was obvious that
Clemens was guilty; I wasn’t here for Bonds discussion but I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a Bonds holdout also. It may not surprise you that the minute the Balco leaks came out, I knew Bonds was guilty, as I knew Giambi was guilty. Maybe it’s because I know a lot more about grand jury testimony that you do.
***Here’s a good guess for you. Roberts wouldn’t have gone anywhere near publishing the story unless her information was solid gold***
I have no problem with you holding any opinion you choose to hold. I think my clients have always been extremely happy with my representation. They at least know I won’t lie for them and that I don’t pull any punches. In the least they have to appreciate my integrity and that I don’t provide convenient smokescreens that may help in the shortrun but that show a naked emperor as soon as the smoke clears.
That said, the situation is still as ugly as it was before I wrote this post and will only get uglier.
————————————————————
Yeah, she was sure “gold” on the Duke Lacrosse scandel, wasn’t she? The Times printed an apology, she hasn’t yet, except tom say it wasn’t her fault, and she was pretty much forced out at the Times.
m -
Geez, ok, I’ll answer
No way I give up two firsts for Cassel. I’m not sure it will take that though. This situation is different from most franchise tag situations because Cassel accepted the franchise tag tender. Meaning he can’t shop his services on the FA market. He’s basically under the Patriots control (and guranteed a salary of $14.25 million which is probably the reason he accepted the tender) and they can trade him for whatever package they can get if they choose to. Good summation of the situation here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/.....id=3891669
On the ARod front, man it’s tougher than yesterday, huh? If he’s innocent and Roberts report was false much like her Duke report, definitely keep him. If he can come clean before the season and stopped using after 2003, keep him. If you can’t void his contract, keep him. His production will make up for any distractions. If he won’t come clean and you can void his contract, as much as it pains me to say it since I’ve always been an ARod guy, I probably have to cut ties with him. The removal on top of the money regained is just too big to not get rid of him.
trisha, name a couple of these so called cases then. Lets hear about the ones involving public figures.
Yanks Lately are like Macbeth and Hamlet combined. As long as they don’t dip into Titus territory.
Walrus
I didn’t mean suing SI or Roberts. The union is currently involved in litigation fighting the confidentiality of the list in a CA court and the judge has it under a court ordered seal. Roberts got 4 people to say what was on a sealed list. The judge may want to know who those people were who disobeyed her order.
while selena roberts is doing the sports and news shows, someone needs to ask her the tough question of if she was so wrong about the duke rape case, how do we know she hasn’t made another mistake?
why should we believe her?
until someone comes forward, it’s just her word that it’s true right ?
now if someone else comes forward, it’s another story.
“How diligently do prosecutors look at the accuser in these kind of situations (like the duke case)?”
Mel, MLB has already said this isn’t going to go away. So I guarantee you that they will play hard ball to get to the bottom of the story and find out who leaked the information. Roberts may have bitten off a lot more than she can chew in an effort to make her upcoming book a bestseller. Courts REALLY don’t like it when people violate court orders. Really they don’t. So you’ll be hearing a lot more about finding the leak.
But I guarantee you that if Arod was not someone who tested positive, you will hear about that loud and clear. It would be ludicrous for his agent, his attorneys, and everyone else involved to sit back and let him take a hit. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by sitting silent if he is indeed innocent and someone leaked incorrect information.
“We’re talking Sports Illustrated, not some supermarket tabloid.”
I haven’t read Sports Illustrated in a long time, I’ll admit – since 2006. And I stopped because in my opinion it had become no better than a supermarket tabloid, lol. It has some great writers, but when I can get the writings of Alex Belth and Cliff Corcoran and a few others elsewhere online, there was no reason to keep it up.
“You think Time Life Inc. would let their employees write that story without knowing who the sources were? Do you really think they woudn’t have a bunch of lawyers go over every word?”
Yeah, I think you’re right on that, Peter. There is just too much at stake for them not to have been sure enough to run it.
I still stand by my opinion on Selena Roberts though.
Okay, okay. I still don’t understand why 1st picks are so valuable, especially if you’re taking a QB.
The guaranteed $$ is just ridiculous and you’re not guaranteed to get a good NFL player.
Cassell’s good, not great. But he’s better than a lot of QB’s out there. And he’ll certainly be better than Stafford & Sanchez are their first years.
But I concede.
As a Pats fan (shocked, rodg?), I’d rather keep him. As soon as Brady gets his first game under his belt, trade Cassell.
As for A-rod? Like I said, as long as we win at least 95 games and go deep into the playoffs I don’t care if he goes away.
But he won’t go away, so I’ll keep cheering. rah.
I’m thinking that the Yankees need to set some ground rules with the media with regards to this situation; they need to control the chaos to the best of their ability. For a team trying to have a productive, beneficial spring training, it is imperative that the Yankees not have to start and/or end every day with an A-Rod Q & A session. This is especially important for Tex, who played with Alex in Texas during the time in question. Once the players are on the field, they will be fine; the diamond is their sanctuary, where they can concentrate purely on baseball.
“The judge may want to know who those people were who disobeyed her order.”
Bingo.
GB, the best thing in the world would be for Roberts to have gotten it wrong. If she did, it will come out.
Actually I didn’t know she was the same person involved in the Duke case.
What a country! In Soviet Russia, illegal steroids take you!
Trisha- She was, unless there are two Selena Roberts running around.
http://www.timeswatch.org/arti.....14135.aspx
For a public figure to sue a reporter they have to prove malice and that the reporter didn’t do the full job of trying to get both sides of the story.
Proving malice is very difficult, and in the case of public figures the standard of proof they have to provide is much higher.
SI and Roberts can’t be sued for having these sources. These sources may never be named.
trisha,
You would think if it wasn’t true that Arod’s people would of came out with a statement today. Or is he not allowed to comment on it because of the court case?
“Here’s a good guess for you. Roberts wouldn’t have gone anywhere near publishing the story unless her information was solid gold”
That’s completely untrue.
To be honest, in reporting this story she has very little to lose and a lot to gain. In reality, if she did get the story wrong, it’s very hard to sue her. A-Rod would have to prove “actual malice” which is very difficult. That means he would have to prove she published the story with INTENT to defame him, not just crappy sources. That intent would be difficult to prove.
But, if in fact the story is wrong, I would certainly hope she at least loses her job. But again, don’t think her sources have to be reliable. There isn’t any legal penalty for publishing a story like this.
http://durhamwonderland.blogsp.....ading.html
m
Would depend if my team was only a QB away from contention. If yes, I take Cassel and give the picks.
I’m not voiding the contract. If I do it for 1 player, I’d have to do it for all and I don’t know what other names can pop up.
If A-Rod goes the mea culpa route, he should give any performance bonuses he reaches to charities involved with youth programs and substance abuse education.
Doreen –
My problem is Roberts used anonymous sources from a sealed government report to out someone on an anonymous drug report.
I guess some other reporter could out those anonymous Roberts sources under the veil of anonymity. (Here are the four people, but I can’t tell you how I know – I have four sources who said they told)
What a crazy web. It’s like chasing your tail.
Yes, Alex is wrong if he did steroids. It’s also a federal offense to leak sealed reports. Roberts doesn’t seem to have any problem with that.
What if a player confided to a priest or a shrink that they did PED’s. Should a reporter go into those records and gather info? Anonymity should mean something.
“trisha, name a couple of these so called cases then. Lets hear about the ones involving public figures.”
Tom Cruise successfully sued a newspaper for saying he was gay.
Tom Selleck sued a newpaper for 20 mil for alleging that male prostitutes said he was gay.
if selena roberts gets this story wrong, she’s finished being a major media reporter.
Angel – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
February 8th, 2009 at 1:25 am
“We’re talking Sports Illustrated, not some supermarket tabloid.”
I haven’t read Sports Illustrated in a long time, I’ll admit – since 2006. And I stopped because in my opinion it had become no better than a supermarket tabloid, lol. It has some great writers, but when I can get the writings of Alex Belth and Cliff Corcoran and a few others elsewhere online, there was no reason to keep it up.
***You think Time Life Inc. would let their employees write that story without knowing who the sources were? Do you really think they woudn’t have a bunch of lawyers go over every word***
Yeah, I think you’re right on that, Peter. There is just too much at stake for them not to have been sure enough to run it.
I still stand by my opinion on Selena Roberts though.
————————————————————
Certainly didn’t stop Life Magazine from running clearly fabricated photos of LH Oswald in 1964, though.
SI has become every bit as bad as National Enquirer. Between the garbage they print now, and the soft porn editions of the swimsuits, it’s pathetic.
Their writers aren’t journalists…they’re this era’s versions of Hedda Hopper, Luella Parsons, Walter Winchell and Rona Barrett without the integrity.
Pete
Sports Illustrated isn’t a supermarket tabloid.
Sports Illustrated illegally obtains confidential court protected information on Arod to make money. Arod has done nothing illegal but tries to protect himself from a SI reporter ambushing him while working out at UM.
Also in the spirit of full discloser, Selena Roberts has been writing for the New York Times since 1996. The New York Times is part owner of the Boston Red Sox. It’s like a Director from the Boston Red Sox Front Office doing a 20 million dollar investigation into PED in MLB.
Actually I didn’t know she was the same person involved in the Duke case.
************************************************************
Yeah, she was. Boy, was that vendetta of the “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” proportions (just had to get another renaissance proverb in there)
And she really got it wrong, and has never admitted it. She’s also writing a book on A-Rod (not a flattering one either) so maybe that was more than enough motivation for her to risk the angst of a judge for disobeying a court order?
Was the ballet any good?
Our heroes should be our parents and our teachers, our siblings and our relatives. A hero could be any one you strive to be and only some day dream to be close to as amazing as that person. Why do baseball players have to be our heros? I think my parents and some of the special people I have came across in my life are certainly far more heroic than the guys who get payed 10 to 30 million dollars each year to play a game for nine months.
I love baseball, I eat, sleep, breath and dream baseball dont get me wrong but I dont feel the need to have a baseball hero – maybe that is the difference between a 24 year old and a 44 year old. This generation knew from the start the type of negative, shady, lowlife characters that baseball players could be from the media. i ALWAYS felt like a lot of the players did not truly appreciate the superior talents they were dealt nor did some of them seem satisfied by being millionaires for playing a kids game their whole life. How can that be anyones role model or hero for that matter?
On the other hand, I am not disappointed in arod. I was more disappointed to read many of the yankee fan comments I have heard today that made me take a step back and consider exactly who in these blogs were fans and who would sell the yanks down the river on a whim. i HEARD people saying that they are done with arod, done with the yankees and done with baseball. All for this??? oVER 50 PERCENT of baseball players probably took roids in the 90s so why we would anyone renounce baseball after hearing a name like arod come up – one of the greatest homerun hitters and pure hitters of this time period. I mean, i did not think it was so but i am not floored by it.
Frankly, I would rather sit back and look forward to the amazing season NY is going to put together this year with the best team on paper since 1998. It is a very exciting time to be a yankee fan once again and I will not let a little thing like arod doing roids in 2003 stop me from loving this team and loving this game. Heck, I even still love that arod is on this team – so he took some roids in 2003 when half the world was doing it? I mean is that such a gigantic deal that we have to talk about it for the next six months. I think moving into the new stadium and having CC and tex start in pinstripes is far more worthy of my time then, this steroid nonsense. Frankly, I dont even really care except that this is going to get annoying if it goes on for months, I dont want arod to be dragged into this with his game suffering in the process and I still want arod to make the hall of fame someday.
but outside of those things, I have to say that I really couldnt care less. In my eyes, arod is still putting up some of the best numbers in the history of the sport in 2007 with a season for the ages and that just proves how good he is and that roids didnt really do a whole lot to improve his game. I would be far more concerned if we found out that arod has been taking roids up until the end of last season but I tend to be very skeptical of that. Arod doesnt have to be my hero or be a flawless individual, it is good enough that he is the best hitter in the world and in yankee pinstripes.
Yeah law suits are tough…
I sued Randy last week for saying that we posters had the brains of a peanut. That got thrown out of court.
The judge laughed and said you can’t take a bullpen catcher seriously. Do you know how many foul balls he’s taken off the mask?
Captainscorner, I think he would have been completely within his rights to comment on it only because the court order was put in place to protect the people who tested positive. I don’t think he could have violated anything by denying, if indeed he was innocent.
DFox, you are wrong there. It’s one thing when someone prints something and protects their source when there are no immediate legal ramifications. It’s quite another when someone prints something that is a violation of a standing court order. I actually hope Roberts finds her neck in a noose for publishing something that was supposed to be legally protected.
I’m pretty sure that the reporters who reported about the grand jury leaks in the Balco case ended up in hot water for violating the law.
Good conversation tonight. Oh how I long for those stupid a-fraud conversations. But it is time for bed. Night all.
I don’t know if this has been posted. But I just found this posted on a website. It seems like Roberts really has it out for Arod.
“Just came across an interesting tidbit about SI’s Selena Roberts. She’s apparently the author of a soon-to-be released book called, “Hit And Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez.” From what I’ve gathered through several web searches, the book is described as “an expose of A-Rod’s controversial path to self-destruction.” Something tells me the purpose of this book is not intended to paint A-Rod in a positive light.”
DT =
What I meant was it seemed the conversation was headed toward the general dismissal of unnamed sources and hiding behind unnamed sources.
I agree with your post. But, this particular set of circumstances surely gives me a headache at this point.
“if selena roberts gets this story wrong, she’s finished being a major media reporter.”
Really?
The Duke lacrosse article she wrote was terrible and she got roasted for it. But that didn’t hurt her career.
Come on, do your homework. This isn’t the first shady reporting job she’s done. 4 anonymous sources. Only name leaked was A Rods’s. She also happens to have a BOOK coming out regarding A Rod.
They all have an agenda.
trisha,
Think the judge will be happy that Roberts told Costas that she suspects that the rest of the names will come out eventually? (totally deflecting attention from herself). The point is that she brought it to the surface, therefore giving it some legs.
Captain- what ever gave you that idea?
The path to self-destruction? or the many lives?
So the ESPN poll says the people still think A-Rod should be in the HOF even if he did steroids.
Kind of surprised considering it’s A-Rod and ESPN.
So, what do you guys think of the CF situation this year?
Gardner or Melky?
“DFox, you are wrong there. It’s one thing when someone prints something and protects their source when there are no immediate legal ramifications. It’s quite another when someone prints something that is a violation of a standing court order. I actually hope Roberts finds her neck in a noose for publishing something that was supposed to be legally protected.”
That’s a completely different offense… You were talking about the crime of reporting false information, not sealed true information. Those are two completely different things, so I am not wrong. Like I said, if the INFORMATION she reported is FALSE, then it’s most likely still not a crime. Even going on to what you just said, if the information is false, she probably didn’t commit any crime, because there would be no actual malice, and, chances are the “sources” who “leaked” the information didn’t really have access to it at all, so that would mean she didn’t either.
Again, this all depends on whether the information is correct or not. If it is, then maybe she could be in trouble for reporting on confidential info, but that wasn’t the original argument.
Well folks, it’s been fun but I can’t be putting off sleep any longer on this discussion. Hopefully we have more information on this in the coming days and a full conclusion can be reached. I reserve judgment until then. If this does indeed play out that ARod is innocent, I expect a full and complete apology from Pete on his comments tonight. I love the blog Pete, but you were out of line tonight my man.
Oh, and go LAKERS beat those Cavs!!!!!!!!!!!
Captain’s Corner
Can it be called self-destruction if she’s the one doing the destroying?
After reading the above links with respect to her Duke “reporting,” the woman does have some kind of an axe to grind. Woman scorned? Woman at one time embarrassed by an athlete?
Why in heaven’s name would ARod deal with her? I stand by my initial thought that he knew she was writing a book, knew it wouldn’t be flattering and had already thought about what he’d say to her if she asked him anything face to face. I wonder if she had texted him or left voices messages that hinted at what she was searching him out to confirm or deny?
All of that is irrelevant, I know. It’s just awfully curious.
I do hope someone asks her how she got access to sealed documents.
Angel, I had written you a post earlier. It was absolutely wonderful. A Thousand and One Nights (Alladin, Ali Baba, and Sinbad). The costumes, music, settings, and dancing were all fantastic. I was so thankful that it was as good as it was, since it served as a great distraction.
I also said that I appreciated the humor in GB saying that he refused to go to the ballet after he learned that Baryshnikov was suspected of using steroids!
I’m sure Pete would give an apology if it turns out he’s innocent. You’re kidding yourself if you really think he is though.
The whole era is what it is people. The sooner we all realize that and move on, the better off we’ll be.
Also, it isn’t that far-fetched to see a possible way the reported information might be false. This lady clearly doesn’t like A-Rod. Just going over the events, you can put together something like:
- she’s doing research on A-Rod, comes across a set of tests in ’03 with 104 names.
- Contacts a few people she THINKS have access to it, and they maybe agree with her that A-Rod is probably on it
- She takes a gamble and reports it, afterall, she’s done poor reporting in the past, she doesn’t have all that much to lose
Because here’s what I don’t get: What government officials are risking their jobs and lives (because they could go to jail) to help some loser like this Roberts lady? Does that part add up to anyone? I don’t get how this report could exist for like 6 years and with all the connected reports out there not ONE would find A-Rods name on it. I’m sure there are TONS of reporters that know government officials in much higher places than Roberts.
How in the world can this woman operate the media machine that basically turned the whole world against the innocent duke lacrosse team, never apologize for it and be forgiven by all? Then, she goes on some ridiculous crusade against arod. There were over 100 ppl on this list and somehow, his is the only name that goes out to the public. This all seems so wrong and devious and dirty.
She sounds like a real witch too so its nice that she is joining the government witch hunt – she should fit right in with the other morons and malcontents. I hope she enjoys destroying ppls lives because thas all it seems she is accomplishing with her writing. Wouldnt it be more productive to help someone succeed in life rather than to tear an innocent persons reputation to shreds for a little cash?
I mean who is really doing more wrong in this story – the media and mitchell who are spending millions of taxpayer dollars to destroy lives for no foreseeable reason whatsoever or arod who took performance enhancers because he has a low self esteem and wanted to do well in his job – I mean who exactly are the roid users hurting in this scenario. I cant think of anyone but it is blatantly obvious that the government and some media are out for blood with this whole PED witch hunt and certainly, lives are getting turned upside down in the process.
And the final result is what? Baseball looks like it turned a blind eye to make a huge profit and then, threw the players that helped revive the sport into the gutter by letting the government take over seligs job using tax money in a terrible economy. Does baseball get a single thing out of this besides a lot of heartache and some bad memories?
Oh and we lose a few of the greatest players of all time who can never be in the hall of fame. It seems like more is getting ruined than is getting accomplished in this scenario. And who is being helped here? i CANT THINK of a single person who is benefiting from this garbage unless you want to say the “clean” player but they are doing this in such a biased and haphazard manner that there is no way of ever knowing who is and isnt guilty so in the end, we are just confused and no one wins.
Maybe we shouldn’t rush to any conclusion on this Arod scandal until we read the Robert’s book. Yes, we must buy the book. (then of course read it – but more importantly BUY it)
If I leave now, I can be the first in line at Barnes and Noble.
Sorry, I meant connected *REPORTERS
“SI has become every bit as bad as National Enquirer. Between the garbage they print now, and the soft porn editions of the swimsuits, it’s pathetic.”
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Heh, you know I agree with this. I guess more what I was saying there, was that that I’m sure in their minds they’ve consulted lawyers with the sources they have and the substance to the story and ultimately they’re gambling that the risk of them getting sued or called on it, is far outweighed the “benefits” of going with this story. After all were there any repercussions for the LHO fabrication?
Alex Belth’s take on this on Bronx Banter is interesting – as an SI writer.
dfox- The only thing is, why didn’t Alex or his agent/lawyers issue a statement denying it?
I am by no means saying I trust her/believe her, cause I don’t. I just would think something would have been released from his camp by now if it wasn’t true.
Maybe we shouldn’t rush to any conclusion on this Arod scandal until we read the Robert’s book. Yes, we must buy the book. (then of course read it – but more importantly BUY it)
If I leave now, I can be the first in line at Barnes and Noble.
———————————
LOL.
I haven’t even gotten a chance to read Torre’s book yet. Now I feel like I’ll be reading “Horton Hears a Who” compared to what’s going on now.
dt- You can stand on line for 4 hours in 10 degree weather to get her autograph too.
With Selena Roberts, as in the Duke lacrosse case, it’s always guilty until proven innocent. I can’t help but question her credibility, and I am not a huge A-rod fan so I am certainly not putting her down at A-rod’s expense. Some of the things she said about the Duke lacrosse players were unsubstantiated generalizations and baseless character attacks. I’m sure she’ll have attack A-rod’s character in her book just as she did with the Duke lacrosse players.
As much as I didn’t want to believe Canseco, he was dead on all along. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PrkEZmOAUY
One last thing for tonight, this is all Aaron Boone’s fault.
If he had just vegged out on the couch that day instead of going to play basketball A-Rod would never have put on the Pinstripes.
We payed alot for that homerun in 2003 that’s for sure.
“dfox- The only thing is, why didn’t Alex or his agent/lawyers issue a statement denying it?”
It’s a good questions, but there could be many logical reasons. Maybe they know he’s innocent, and want the fact that his name ISN’T on the list to be revealed, but that would take a court order.
And one more, just theoretically… He’s always been such a advocate of how clean he is, and he knows he’s ALWAYS a target, it would have been smart for him to contract routine steroid tests on himself. I don’t know if he did anything like that, but it would be pretty genius. If he did have something like that in place, it would probably take some time for them to compile the tests into a usable document.
But hey, I mean there’s always the real possibility that he’s on that list, but again, I just don’t see how with all the constantly fishing reporters who are so much better than this Roberts lady, this information would stay safe for 6 years. The only thing that makes sense to me in that case is that his name is in fact not on the list.
The biggest question is, where were these documents before she got her grubby little hands on them? And did someone do something illegal in order to get away with publishing this information which was from an anonymous survey and then, once again, anonymous sources …. I dont understand the whole anonymous sources bit – where they government officials that were doing some shady sharing? A man should have a right to face his accusers no matter what the forum. Its not right to have that many anonymous sources regarding info that can really dent someones reputation and life.
DFox, if she reported false information relying on unnamed sources, then SI could be on the hook for not doing a better job of checking out information when something is that potentially inflammatory. Incidentally, the legal definition of malice also includes acting with reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of a statement. It doesn’t only refer to bad will on the part of the reporter or newspaper! So if it was found that Roberts or SI didn’t do a thorough enough job of proving its sources – in this case a dangerous thing since the names are protected under court order – Arod could easily prove malice if he is indeed innocent!
How funny she also wrote the article in the nytimes in 2007 about how bad Arod treats the people who live in the apartment buildings in Tampa that he owns.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12.....berts.html
dt- You can stand on line for 4 hours in 10 degree weather to get her autograph too.
You got the temperature right. The day I stand four hours in line to get a book signed will be the day hell freezes over.
Maybe we shouldn’t rush to any conclusion on this Arod scandal until we read the Robert’s book. Yes, we must buy the book. (then of course read it – but more importantly BUY it)
If I leave now, I can be the first in line at Barnes and Noble.
******************************************************
LOL. I know I shouldn’t be laughing, but that did actually make me laugh out loud.
“I haven’t even gotten a chance to read Torre’s book yet. Now I feel like I’ll be reading “Horton Hears a Who” compared to what’s going on now.”
**********************************************************
Haha- isn’t that the truth. Torre’s book I want to read because I think that most parts of it will be worth it – this book on A-Rod have zero desire to read, especially now.
*We’re talking Sports Illustrated, not some supermarket tabloid. You think Time Life Inc. would let their employees write that story without knowing who the sources were?*
================
Are Sports Illustrated and Time Life Inc. infallible just because they are Sports Illustrated and Time Life Inc.?
Are they incapable of ulterior motives?
Can they be mislead?
And don’t shrug off supermarket tabloids, Pete.
Don’t be John Edwards.
dt-
Okay now I am really going to bed. Night all.
chris, I said the same thing to my sister earlier tonight. Every single thing Arod alleged in his book turned out to be – at least those that have been tested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
good night.
Oops – every single thing Canseco alleged in his book.
I can’t believe it’s 2 a.m. This is a first for me. G’night all.
Actually, the online version of SI is much less salacious and biased than espn.com. I know, very low bar to reach.
But I don’t sense an agenda at si.com.
Oh, I must have missed it. I’ll go look now.
Lucky you, sounds wonderful. I got dragged out to see a gruesomely awful horror movie – never again! – especially not in 3D. :X
It was a distraction – sort of – in the same way a train wreck would be, I suppose.
DFox, the one thing you can count on is that if Alex’ name is NOT on the list, we will hear it shouted from the rooftops in the next day or so. The court order does not say that people who did not test positive are under orders not to say they did not test postive! It says that the names of those who did are not to be released.
Night all.
Angel – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
February 8th, 2009 at 1:51 am
“SI has become every bit as bad as National Enquirer. Between the garbage they print now, and the soft porn editions of the swimsuits, it’s pathetic.”
***********************************************************
Heh, you know I agree with this. I guess more what I was saying there, was that that I’m sure in their minds they’ve consulted lawyers with the sources they have and the substance to the story and ultimately they’re gambling that the risk of them getting sued or called on it, is far outweighed the “benefits” of going with this story. After all were there any repercussions for the LHO fabrication?
Alex Belth’s take on this on Bronx Banter is interesting – as an SI writer.
————————————————————
Well, after NYT printed an apology and she said that she wasn’t to blame because the prosecutor that gave her the story was currupt, she was pretty much forced out of the NYT. Other than that, not much.
First of all, Sam, you’re right. A-Rod should come completely clean about this and answer all questions honestly and straightforward. He should probably just hold a press conference, get it all out of the way, and afterwards that’s it. No more. Out in the open and then gone, time to focus on the season after that. But there’s no chance this ruins the Yankees season. It might affect A-Rod to some degree but there are 24 other guys on the roster who probably don’t really care and just want to do well and win a World Series. Distractions upon millions more distractions will always pour over A-Rod. This is one of the largest yet, and time will tell how it plays out. But for those odds makers, the Yankees still one of the sickest starting rotations in baseball, with great depth in AAA. They still have one of the best lineups, and a good bullpen. This situation is unfortunate but I’m not worried. This will all be long forgotten when the Yanks make a deep playoff run this year. Until then, God help us….
Well, after NYT printed an apology and she said that she wasn’t to blame because the prosecutor that gave her the story was currupt, she was pretty much forced out of the NYT. Other than that, not much.
*********************************************************
I honestly find it staggering that they let her off the hook by printing that. I know she’s never apologized.
If she wasn’t so blinded by her vendetta maybe she would have looked more closely – although I doubt it. She was so busy being focused on character assassinations of affluent, entitled male athletes, that she missed the machiavellian tactics of an affluent, entitled prosecutor – simply because he provided her with the ammunition for her vendetta. Its almost ironic.
So ESPN’s ‘damning’ evidence is an opinion of the Rangers conditioning coach in 03 that alex’s size didnt match his workout? That’s damning evidence?
Right, she was forced out of the NY Times — to a higher paying job at Sports Illustrated. I wish somebody would force me out of my job that way.
Hilarious.
Pete,
But the idea that alex has continues to use until this season doesnt make a whole lot of sense either. I dont think he would have taken the risk for all those years. I know the peds improve but so do the tests and you cant stay on top of the new testing that comes out every single time. How do ppl even have access tot he exact tests that are in development. To think he has been doing stuff for six years seems highly improbable. I wouldnt just be able to assume that because he did it in 2003, he probably did it up until today. That is a little far-fetched. dont ya think?
When the time is appropriate, A-Rod should come fully clean, not halfway like Giambi, as Pete said in his blog entry. He had too many detractors before this to go the Giambi route and be forgiven. It may not do him any good to be fully upfront but anything less will kill any chance of restoring his name.
The guy is such a magnet for drama, brought on by himself. I hope like hell his usage ended a long time ago. There’s a lot more to this mess from Alex to Orza to MLB to whoever leaked this. It’s gonna get uglier.
As for Selena Roberts, I don’t like her either but given what happened with the Duke case, she’d be an idiot to jeopardize her career with poor evidence. I guess that a book about an incredibly talented athlete who’s an insecure headcase on the most famous team in sports and hangs with Madonna, Warren buffet and other celebs just wouldn’t sell without something juicier. Sad day for baseball.
Right, she was forced out of the NY Times—to a higher paying job at Sports Illustrated. I wish somebody would force me out of my job that way.
Hilarious.
******************************************************
Hey, I hear the National Enquirer pays really well.
Just kidding.
Guilty or not, is is becoming really annoying that the Yankees seem to be the target all the time. 104 names on that list, a-rod didnt play for the yankees in 03 and last i checked, we only had 25 starters that year. I’d love for once to see someone else knocked off of their high horse. anyone else feel the same way?
“As for Selena Roberts, I don’t like her either but given what happened with the Duke case, she’d be an idiot to jeopardize her career with poor evidence.”
I kinda disagree. There were apparently no repercussions for the Duke case to her directly. She’s never backed down or apologized. And as Peter pointed out, she even went to a better paying job at SI. Sounds pretty good to me.
Given that she didn’t jeopardize anything with the Duke case, if I was her – I don’t think I would think any differently about this either.
Maybe that is why she is smearing arods name with mud – she thinks she is in line for another promotion lol!
“I don’t like her either but given what happened with the Duke case, she’d be an idiot to jeopardize her career with poor evidence.”
Are you sure about that? Sometimes when you hate someone so much, any little thing the MIGHT be true about them taints your judgment because you WANT it to be true.
I love how the biggest thing on this ladies resume is running a bunch of innocent kids’ lives, and everyone takes her word as gold because she cited 4 ANONYMOUS sources.
And everyone has yet to explain how this second-rate reporter uncovered A-Rods name on that list after 6 years. And oh yeah, I’d like to meet the 4 government officials who lost their jobs to help Roberts career.
Dave:
Read Will Carroll’s story on “Dr. X.” It’s fascinating. Well-financed athletes can get drugs nobody can detect.
We know this much: Alex + steroids = 2003 MVP. I find it hard to believe that he quit after that. With his money, he could get whatever he wanted in terms of designer drugs and hire the best doctors and chemists. His lack of integrity in other aspects of his life is well known as well.
It’s sad. But unfortunately given all the names involved, you can’t believe the best about anybody in the game.
“Given that she didn’t jeopardize anything with the Duke case, if I was her – I don’t think I would think any differently about this either.”
I agree… If you don’t get penalized at all for ruining a group of kids lives, why would you get penalized for trying to defame a rich, powerful public figure? That’s nothing compared to her previous “work”…
Angel-yeah, you got a point there. She does seem to have a vendetta but I’d like to know more about how this all came down. I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt for now. There’s so much to this whole mess that it could be a book in itself.
*So ESPN’s ‘damning’ evidence is an opinion of the Rangers conditioning coach in 03 that alex’s size didnt match his workout? That’s damning evidence?*
ESPN went from “reportedly tested positive” to “allegedly tested positive”.
Hmmmm…
Well we have another NYC reporter willing to jump ship immediately. I’d love to know what exactly alex did that goes to credibility issues…
took 252 million when offered?
“emotionally cheated’ on his wife? his wife’s own words. same wife who ran off with lenny kravitz 2 months after having a kid?
hooked up with madonna (while gross, not really going to lack of credibility).
an ego?
come on!!!
I support arod,
Yes i completely agree. it doesnt seem fair or right or objective or unbiased that with all those names, they decide to just print arod’s in a huge story and leave the rest for another day. Nor does it seem fair or even legal how they originally got the documents and everyone will say – well its too late now but frankly, if someone did something illegal they should be punished for it because they probably profited off of it. This is all so ridiculous – with something like 50 percent of baseball doin roids back then, why are the yanks always the ones who got sucker punched? It just doesnt seem right somehow. And it is 2003, this is ridiculous that it would come out now and like this. I really hate this woman as I have a feeling she is a slimeball and likes to see others writhe in pain. If only this story was false and her career and life were destroyed after a second false accusation. She really must like to see people suffer though if you think about it – firs the lacrosse kids and now, this. Its like how can i destroy someone else life today.
DFox:
Um, she wrote opinion columns on Duke. She was not doing news stories. She reacted to news that proved to be incorrect through no fault of her own.
Were the columns strong worded? For sure. But they were opinion columns. There is no right or wrong in opinion. She was paid by the Times to give her opinion on the news.
And I’m pretty well certain the Times and SI don’t hire “second-rate” reporters.
Finally, do you doubt this is true? I realize you’re a fan and you love A-Rod. That’s fine. But think for a second. Do you think Sports Illustrated would let any employee write such a story without having it checked 100 ways? And if Alex is innocent, why would he not say so?
I have stood there and personally heard the guy deny using PEDs at least a dozen times. Yet on Thursday when presented with evidence that he did, he said, “Ask the union.”
SI flew her down to Miami to give Alex a face to face opportunity to give his side of the story or deny the charges. He said, “ask the union.” If you have nothing to fear, you tell the truth. That is true for anything. You don’t say “ask the union.”
Kill the messenger all you want. It doesn’t change the facts.
ESPN went from “reportedly tested positive” to “allegedly tested positive”.
Hmmmm…
I noticed that too. Apparently ESPNSox jumped the gun there before they actually confirmed with anyone but this one reporter. Their A list sources tonight were doug glanville? and this rangers conditioning coach???
i have to wonder about sources that can be plucked from obscurity in less than a half day notice and thrown on espn. how long before we see a book deal for this rangers conditioning coach?
Thanks pete. i WILL read it. Its sad and it stinks that arod is now guilty and not only that but people could think anything from he tried it once to he has been using his whole life without any proof on the matter. Even when he comes out and tells us, people dont have to believe a word. His reputation is tarnished forever but as long as his game is still intact I am not going to cry about it.
*She does seem to have a vendetta but I’d like to know more about how this all came down.*
Vendetta… agenda… same difference.
*I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt for now. There’s so much to this whole mess that it could be a book in itself.*
Hey, you never know. It could be…
http://www.harpercollins.com/b.....index.aspx
Has she started her interviews with “In the interest of full disclosure…”?
I don’t think so.
And if Alex is innocent, why would he not say so?
Pete, i like you but now you sound naive. Sure he probably is involved in this. However, we both know that if he denied it, no one would believe him and soon congress would want to speak with him, You cannot deny it anymore because people want to believe he is guilty.
How about we hear more of how this happened other than assuming he is just some cheating doper? Who knows, there may actually be an explanation.
If you don’t get penalized at all for ruining a group of kids lives, why would you get penalized for trying to defame a rich, powerful public figure?
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Technically when you think about it, it wasn’t even taking on just any group of kids – they represented Duke University after all. Not only Duke University, but the crown jewel of Duke University – its sports programs. Duke is pretty powerful public institution in and of itself. She managed to walk away from that with pretty much everything intact – this is almost nothing.
Usually Costas is better than that interview today. Why not question here about why she is so sure of her sources, considering her credibility of the Duke fiasco? Why not ask about her personal gain from this considering the book that she’s writing on Rodriguez? Is it another hatchet job by her like her previous articles about Rodriguez? Was it professional courtesy? Does her “integrity” in protecting her “sources” count more than accepting illegally gained information?
*Kill the messenger all you want. It doesn’t change the allegations.*
Fixed.
this is a guy who was never associated to the balco scandal, nothing in the amazingly thorough mitchell ‘report’, nothing from radomski, nothing other than an anonymous test.
I am starting to wonder if our reporters even want the yankees to succeeed or if they are looking to turn the yankees into a dallas cowboy circus.
youve been tearing alex down since he got here. maybe he wouldnt be so ”fragile” if our own reporters werent trying to break him down all the time.
Just got back from the gym and it’s been an interesting forty minutes catching up with this evenings postings…..Pete, never have I seen you so antimated and demonstative….Your agrument may have a twinge of bias but you present a strong and compelling case….I just think after 48 hours or so, Team A-Rod will have had time to gauge the damage and respond..I said 12 hours ago, if there is even a smudge of thruth, he has too plead to forgiveness and understanding….Forgiveness is part of the American fabric….Question is, is he capable of being humble ????
OK Pete, those are valid points, but I have a question for you. It is not a shot at you, but it’s something me and my friends were discussing.
This report was compiled and sealed 6 years ago. A-Rod has CONSTANTLY been in the spotlight and has been flat out accused of doing steroids by people like Conseco. How did no other reporter have the ability to come across this report and get A-Rods name off it before a day ago? Is Roberts some kind of super reporter? Because I’ll tell you this, you can say anything you want about her, but she isn’t a better reporter than you, she isn’t a better reporter than someone like John Heyman, and MANY others. Not only that, there’s reporters that have tons more resources than her. All I ask is who are the government officials who said “OK, I’m going to lose my job so I can give Selena Roberts a story to break and help her career”. That’s the part that I don’t get. Is this lady smarter than everyone? The best baseball player ever’s name is on a list of steroid users and no reporter could get it in 6 years? That is SO hard to believe and that’s the only reason I don’t believe this story. Reporters seem so pushy for information, and then this HUGE story slips by for 6 years. When Conseco said A-Rod was a user, not one reporter said maybe I should check this report from ’03 of 103 known steroid users to try to break this story?
I’m not saying it can’t be true. Of course I don’t want to believe it, but something just doesn’t add up. But again, you are a reporter, so I’m curious to hear your opinion on this, even if it is true, on how this went secret for 6 years…
m
He may break my heart but I know he’d have my back.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....iguez.html
“Kill the messenger all you want. It doesn’t change the facts.”
No it doesn’t, but surely you can understand why her motives might be at least looked at with a little skepticism. Given her history and her upcoming book, well its just a bit all too convenient and neatly packaged.
Perhaps I’m just too cynical, though.
Yeah and about why he hasn’t said anything yet… If he is innocent, and knows his name is on the list, I think it would be beneficial to him to have a government source there with him to confirm his name is NOT on the sealed list. Because afterall, who is going to believe A-Rod saying “my name is not on the list”. No one, it would need to be confirmed which probably requires a court order because it’s referring to confidential information.
“Forgiveness is part of the American fabric….Question is, is he capable of being humble ????”
He’ll have to be, if he truly wants forgiveness, I think.
Alex Belth said something very true:-
“…Rodriguez could potentially come out of this looking good if he copped to using PEDS in a way that satisfies our lust. The public craves blood but we are suckers for forgiveness. We love illusion but demand authenticity.”
Anyways, I’m off to bed.
What a day.
this woman hasnt met an athlete whose life she hasnt destroyed. i wish someone would write a book about her. her lack of credibility during the duke case, maybe a ficticious affair that no one can confirm but shows up anyway.
why do real reporters like dan rather have to resign but this ‘reporter’ gets a promotion for not checking her facts?
DFox:
The feds are likely the source of the leaks. They seem to be trying to justify what they’re up to with this investigation. If you want to leak info, a big publication like SI is a good place.
She is also a very good reporter. You don’t get hired by the Times and SI by accident. She has been researching Alex for a long time and obviously dug stuff up. SI and Time Life have vast resources. Vast.
If you are innocent, you don’t wait for somebody else to say it. You scream you’re innocent. What explains all his previous denials and then this sudden change when presented with evidence?
I think Alex is rude to people for no good reason and just a weird dude. But I have consistently written and said that I admired his work ethic and talent. I certainly feel like a dope now. I think a lot of fans who admired him feel the same way.
It’s sad that baseball has come to this. Ultimately, it falls on Selig and Fehr for not caring to take a stand years ago. They allowed this culture to develop.
But not all guys use. At some point, every big leaguer had to decide whether he would cheat or not cheat. Alex decided to cheat. You can argue the outskirts of the story and the motives any way you want and try. But in the end, it comes back to the one fact.
I support A-Rod.
You’re embarrassing yourself. Just stop. Selena has written hundreds of stories and columns that didn’t attack anybody. Don’t be a fool.
Anyway, I’m going to bed. Thanks to everybody for chiming in.
pat,
Thanks for the link. I love Bruney.
And also Michael Young.
Pete you need a Walter Cronkite signoff..But that last post will do……
http://www.slate.com/id/2082741/
Apparently tht NYTimes is not above reproach. And the idea that the Fourth Estate is infallible is hilarious.
SI is not that far removed from the Enquirer. It’s a reflection of our tabloid society.
Arod probably did the PEDs and Selena probably was grinding an axe.
I was so happy that we as fans had somebody to root for to unseat Bonds. Now that is all over. I’m happy I’m 51 instead of 7 because if I were that young chances are I wouldn’t be half the fan I grew up to be because of all this crap with steroids. Everything is tainted anymore. What’s next, I go to church today and fing out God is doing steroids? After all he created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Sounds like he used roids to me…that’s alot of stuff to do in 6 days!
“I certainly feel like a dope now. I think a lot of fans who admired him feel the same way.”
And you’re 200% entitled to feel that way. You have every right to hate him, if in fact this is true. All I was proposing is you wait until you hear what he has to say. Because you have to admit, a lot of people would look very silly if a fed. investigator gets on TV tomorrow and says that the report was opened and A-Rods name doesn’t appear on it. Not likely, but certainly possible.
But yeah I mean I used to love A-Rod, and if this is true, he completely let me down. I’m just banking on the shot that maybe it isn’t true.
And say anything you want about the reporter, but she has a very bad reputation to a lot of people. That’s one thing that gives me a little hope that it might not be true.
“What explains all his previous denials and then this sudden change when presented with evidence?”
It’s not like that. For this, he’s either on the list of he isn’t. If he isn’t somehow, he knows that. He would wait for the confirmation because it would make his announcement SO much more powerful. And if he’s not on it, he knows he’s going to be proven innocent, so he might as well wait for the evidence he knows he’s going to get.
Pete,
That was a solid article. Thanks for the heads up. So basically there is no point in testing at this stage of the game according to that guy and any one and everyone who has money can cheat especially MLB-type money. This doesnt guarantee me that arod has been doing it for six years as i need some evidence to buy that one, it does seem realistic that people in the game are doing stuff and never getting caught for it.
Frankly, i just hope he did it that one season. We know he did it but we still dont know how much he did or for how long. It is one thing if he did it a few times in 2003 and certainly a whole other ball game if he has been doing it consistently for the better part of this decade. And we cant just assume one way or the other. We need to at least have some sort of proof at hand.
Right now, I dont really care that arod did it in 03 – it was forever ago, he wasnt even on the yanks and he had won multiple MVPs since then proving that he does have a good amount of talent every year. But all of that will be taken away in one foul swoop if he has been doing it the whole time. That, to me, will be heart-breaking news like finding out santa clause doesnt exist if arod has been doing roids his entire career. But that is really A HUGE deal and required some substantial proof one way or the other. This isnt just some idea that you can half-heartedly see – this is a major part of the yankee team and the last decade and the next ten years all of a sudden rather than just 2003. I just hope we find out how long he did it or has done it soon.
Deep down we all knew this but it hurts to see it. A-Roid is just the latest and greatest to be added to the list.
I wish we knew who didn’t use steroids. Let’s assume that Jeter never used them, is he the best SS in history? A-Rod and Tejada both used them. Cal’s numbers and streak are impressive, but Jeter would be in the conversation. Now we’ll never know.
Who has a higher approval rating? GW Bush or Bud Selig? Selig has to get fired.
Rich
subwaysports.blogspot.com
One other thing pete,
I dont see that people are just rushing to snap judgements on selena for no good reason. I mean outside of the fact that she was one of the main proponents against the duke lacrosse team with very little proof going against them in that case and her spear heading the whole media movement, there is also a lot of seemingly shady business going on in this situation. One cant help but wonder why only arods name is hitting the newspapers after the list had over 100 names. I mean what is going to happen with those cheaters? It really gives off the impression that she has a personal vendetta against arod. Also, why is all this info from anonymous sources and coming from a supposedly anonymous survey that everyone took in 2003 when this kind of stuff wasnt even explicitly enforced as against the rules in baseball.
It does appear like someone or more than one person broke the law to get this info one would think. And then, there is the whole method in which this comes across as a communist witch hunt and how these so called investigations seem horribly biased. I just wonder who in the world any of this is helping? Its just making great players suffer. And the real person to blame in selig is making a truckload of money this year still enjoying all the luxuries as the commissioner of baseball. Shouldnt he be the first one to have his name dragged through the mud?? Meanwhile, he is making most of what the entire tampa rays team made last year while the government spends tax dollars in a terrible economy to try to clean up selig’s mess but are just making it into more of a mess.
Pete Pete Pete –
Let’s go down a different avenue. The Pats coach was fined for cheating and the organization lost a draft pick. He turned over all his tapes to the NFL. They were supposed to be destroyed. Correct?
You’d think the story was over.
Say, I was Mr. Scoop reporter. I got a hold of some of the NFL tapes from a leaked inside source. (hey I thought they were destroyed!) I find out that Pats coach taped other teams as well and was less than faithful.
#1 – You might think why am I going down this path? It’s old news? Do I have a vendetta against the coach? Am I writing a book? Am I doing it because he is the most successful coach in the NFL and I want to make a name for myself?
#2 – If I show up at a Foxboro gym and accuse Mr. Pats coach – what do you think he would say? Would he say “I’m innocent”? Or would he wonder where I got my “illegal” info? Maybe he would reserve comment until he found out how I got tapes that were supposed to be destroyed?
Pat coach haters would say – it doesn’t matter how that info was obtained. He’s guilty until proven innocent.
I’m not saying A-rod is innocent or guilty. But something doesn’t feel right – and I’m not ready to give Roberts a Pulitzer prize.
DFox, you’ve made some great points. I just don’t like SI’s style of this “exclusive” report. Why can’t they just say, “we have four anonymous sources who claim to know what they are talking about, and they just alleged that a-rod should really be called a-roid, because he took perombolin (or whatever). let’s discuss the possibility that the best player ever is on an illegal drug called perambolin, which, everyone, makes you strong but also lean. because it’s possible. this opens up the possibility.” but instead, they are acting like they are a court and a jury and a thousand lawyers and that a-rod has already had a fair trial. their argument would be stronger if they just raised the possibility.
Selig is absolutely terrible and he is making ALMOST 20 MILLION DOLLARS IN SALARY NEXT SEASON!!!!!! How in the world does a commiss make that kind of dough? And people yell at the yankees – selig has not done much right since he was hired. Now, he is making almost as much as some teams – He should re-sign with some dignity and go cry himself to sleep every night for being such an idiot
Im not ready to give roberts a congrats never mind a pullitzer prize – she must get some satisfaction out of making others miserable and to me, thats no the sign of a great person.
“but instead, they are acting like they are a court and a jury and a thousand lawyers and that a-rod has already had a fair trial. their argument would be stronger if they just raised the possibility.”
Yep, that’s a good point.
Put it this way, no one knows for sure right now whether A-Rod is guilty or not. But, we do know one thing for sure. If his name is not on that list, and he is innocent, that will come out in the next few days. If it is the case, SI will never be looked at the same way, and the meaning of “innocent until proven guilty” will have a newly found meaning in this country. Oh and like I need to state the obvious, if he is innocent, it’s safe to say this would be the last we see of Roberts as a reporter.
I don’t understand how “reputable” publications can report stories and print headlines like “A-Rod tested positive in 03″ without using the word “allegedly”. Until there is some tangible proof I find it irresponsible to just throw allegations around and print them in a way that they are perceived to be undeniable fact.
Media is qucik to pour on with the story but when the time comes to print a retraction it’s done on page 13.
If Rodriguez did do steroids he should deal with the consequences but until there is a source that is not anonymous or a legal document with A-Rod’s name on it I would like to see the media report the story as such.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if these “facts” turned out to be bogus.
However I would not be surprised if everything alleged was true. Rodriguez seems like he always wanted to be the best and I could see how watching players around him put up monster numbers could have driven him to start juicing.
Its ridiculous that in this country you can be tried and convicted and your whole life can be changed by a story in a newspaper or magazine. That is how this society is run now. Guilty until proven innocent with writers and anonymous sources instead of a jury, You cant even confront or know the identity of your accusers because unlike arod whos anonymity was taken away from him possibly illegally, his accusers have the luxury of remaining anonymous. This whole story reeks of hippocracy. O man, what is this world coming to?
Everyone seems to hate arod soooo much for no apparent reason that people were ALL too ready to jump on this ship of alleged facts and allegations without substantial proof to back them up and all anonymous sources when the only one that actually should have remained anonymous throughout this ordeal was arod himself. The media has turned into a dirty bussiness and the court of public opinion has turned into some kind of archaic system where one writer decides the guilt rather than a jury. Its a dirty, deplorable game these media-type have to play and all in the name of selling a few newspapers regardless of whos life it destroys in the process. I am not sickened by what arod did but i am sick to my stomach about the way this whole thing went down.
I’m a 19 year old male college student, and a die hard Yankee fan. I’ve never been particularly pro or anti A-Rod, I’ve just been happy when he played well, and sad when he played poorly.
When I saw the news about his steroid use, I started crying. The Yankees have been my favorite thing in the world since I was 5 years old. I love baseball with all my heart, and the guys who go out there in pinstripes are my heros. When Giambi came out, and we heard about others around the league, I was upset, but I was OK.
For some reason, now that I know that A-Rod, THE non-steroid star, supposedly, my world was just crushed.
Why can’t the players just be honest and respect the game as much as the fans do? I understand the pressures and the necessities to remain competitive, and I don’t know what I would do in that situation, but even a guy like A-Rod?
This just sucks.
In addition to the legal ramifications if they are wrong, why does SI give the story away for free on its web site? If the mag hit newsstands with this on the cover, it would be a huge seller.
If they are wrong, they will be cleaned out and out of business so I guess it wouldn’t matter!
PA said: “But not all guys use. At some point, every big leaguer had to decide whether he would cheat or not cheat. Alex decided to cheat. You can argue the outskirts of the story and the motives any way you want and try. But in the end, it comes back to the one fact.”
Exactly. That’s why I disagree with the ‘everybody was doing it’ defense. No one was forced. These guys saw dollar signs and the way was a needle or HGH. yeah, Selig knew and did nothing and should be ripped/fired. But you can’t feel sorry for greedy players like Bons and Clemens.
i didn’t read a single one of the 1000+ comments in order to have time to have a life!
I don’t see what the big deal is here
i plan on booing arod as loudly as i possibly can every time he comes up next season. im done with this lying self-centered jerk, ill boo him for the next 9 years if we have to be stuck with that long. he’s a loser. get rid of him.
yes, arod should apologize to us… right along to the other 50% (or more) of the users. we r all disappointed, we were duped. but i think that these guys did what many of us would have, if we were faced with a shot to make it big, vs. maybe going home to bag groceries. arod is guilty, but he is simply the standard bearer for most of them.
and in the last generation, it was ‘greenies’.. and the generation before, corkedbats. so lets congratulate those (few) who maybe were clean. and lets be annoyed at arod just as much as pettite and the rest. lets fix it and move on.
i understant that some people are hurt but i can care less if he used steroids or didn’t.
everybody thought because arod wasn’t named up to this point that he was clean,i had a feeling he used so it was no suprise.
i don’t care about what they do off the field.it was a huge mistake the yankees made by signing arod in the first place.
A-Rod should definitely confess and clear his conscience, but I have a feeling he ends up saying “I didn’t know what I was taking” and ends up hitting .250 this season.
I am not sure what Alex should do. But saying he should go Andy Pettitte is like comparing apples & oranges.
Andy admitted to using HGH. Players are more readily to admit to using HGH because there is a belief that HGH is more of a medicinal product and not purely “performance enhancing”.
But the fact is: no star player, who is currently playing, has admitted to knowingly using Steroids. If Alex does, it could very well be career suicide. The “No Comment” route, at least at this point, may in fact be his best option.
By the way, Jose Canseco is proved correct once again.
jojo
giambi admitted to a grand jury that he used steroids.
history although brief shows that it is better to confess.look at giambi,he won comeback player of the year.
alex should confess 100 percent & simply eliminate the story & questions,give reporters nowhere to go.
his reputation & numbers are already going to be questioned by the hof voters.
giambi was under the belief that his testimony was confidential. so, albeit, it was honorable, more importantly…lawful, of him to be honest to the grand jury…he did not actually come clean before the press. and he has repeatedly refused to discuss that testimony with the press since it was leaked.
admitting it will remove motivation from all of the reporters to hound arod.it will be arod against the fans & hof voters.
if he does not admit it the reporters will be all over him for every hit.his reputation is already tarnished,he needs to take the story away.
he should come out & say i did it,i am sorry.do you realize what will happen after a walk off homerun by alex & an interview afterwards???
This situation cannot be compared to Bonds, Clemens or Pettitte. Their steroid use was made public by report that was meant to be made public. Until the other 103 names are released there is no level playing field here.
Bud Selig should be crucified, from the way he put someone in charge of the steroid report where there is clearly a conflict of interest to allowing this mess. The way he handled the steroid era is the prime reason we can’t get away from the past and concentrate on cleaning up baseball in the future.
As a fan I’d love for Alex to come clean. I’d love for Barry, Roger, Palmeiro, Tejada, etc…to come clean. Just not sure that’s how these guys and their agents & lawyers think. That 5th Amendment is sometimes in your best interest. It may be best for Alex to hope those other 100+ names come out and then he can just be one in the crowd. Then, it’s not just an Alex problem. It becomes an MLB (America’s Pastime in Crisis-Again) problem. Maybe there’s another big name on there. Maybe someone who is loved by the public. And would be a bigger surprise that Alex himself. Someone who can take a little of the heat off Alex. Sounds crazy but that’s how lawyers think.
jojo
the key is that giambi did not deny it & the fans & reporters took it as him admitting it.
arod needs to come clean,take his lumps & move onto being a human being comfortable in his own skin.
he should say i did it,hopefully it was very brief.you have to think that he has not used since testing because we would know,at least with steroids although a doctor so he claimed was on wfan yesterday claiming that there are steroids that leave your body in 24-72 hours,water based & oil based steroids.
the problem here is that mlb & the union had an agreement & sealed this report under court orders & it by the looks of it would have remained that way,that is why 6 years later it is out.
federal agents confiscated the tests & the goverment is not subject to the same rules.
it didn’t get leaked by mlb or the union from what i understand.
Full disclosure is the only way to go. A half honest disclosure, like Giambi’s, will not work with A-Rod.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! This is too funny. If I weren’t stuck watching this loser for the next 9 years, I’d be really happy. But I guess this doesn’t change anything other than the fact that nobody can deny what a fraud this guy is…something most of us already knew.
It leaves a real bad taste in my mouth that the sources decided to only out one guy. Yes, ARod should face scrutiny, but the other 103 should not be exxonerated……….The players union really blew this one by not destroying those test results.
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