Defining a generation
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 08, 2009 
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Just a thought:
Of the active or recently-retired players who have hit 500 or more home runs, here are the names of those who have been linked in one way or another to PEDs:
Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire (and Gary Sheffield, who has 499)
Here are the names of those who have NOT been linked to PEDs: Ken Griffey Jr., Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Frank Thomas
In other words, assuming Sheffield hits one more home run, there will be several more “historic” sluggers from this generation of players who did use PEDs than didn’t. That just hammers home the point that the greatest question may be how this entire era will be viewed by fans in the future. Sad as it is, we’re a part of a period in baseball which will almost surely be remembered more for the way its statistics were produced than for the statistics themselves.
And Sam I suspect every player that is on the list have not been linked.
Correct…Roidball should have its own encyclopedia, and Hank Aaron and Roger Maris should be restored to their proper place in the pantheon.
And you know for sure Junior, Manny, The Big Hurt and Thome are clean how? Manny and Thome have some very skinny old pictures of themselves around. Junior had the serial injuries that often associated with steroid abuse and Frank Thomas came from football, where roids are the rule.
Phil:
Never said they were clean. Just said they hadn’t been linked (yet).
Of the list of players who are active with 500+ HR’s, Only Frank Thomas has fully cooperated with Congress and George Mitchell in his report. That says alot about those other players.
But I’m sure those others heard/saw nothing too.
Man I hate the way this is getting dragged out. Just give us the names of all the players that used it so we can really start a new era of baseball. I have the feeling stuff is gonna be getting leaked out 1 by 1 websites like SI.com and ESPN.com can profit from it. Just give us the names and lets move on.
Frank Thomas is probably the only good guy in baseball. He’s been very adament about steroids in baseball over the years. That entire era makes his numbers look weaker than they should be viewed.
Sam,
But I don’t understand the point of the post. All we know is they haven’t been linked yet. That was true of ARod yesterday. Let’s see who the other 103 were, and who the guys from the other lab were and see where we stand.
To assume that Griffey, Thomas and Thome didn’t use PEDs would be slightly less than ridiculous. Ramirez, there is less suspicions about. Look at the injuries that those three ave suffered over the yers…not for one year, but for 2-3 years in a row and then recover for another big year, only to get hurt again. They’ve been written of more times than Dracula. Another one that fits that category is Edgar Martinez.
I just want baseball to start. I am so tired of hearing about this. I’ve stayed away from all sports talk all day. I can’t imagine the junk I am going to hear at work tomorrow. I’ve already avoided answering calls from people I know I will hear it from.
Of that list, the only player that would shock me is Thome.
Fred McGriff! My all time favorite non-Yankee.
(Yes,I am aware he was a Yankee farm hand)
One generation is 25 years.
Just a thought:
How many 500 home run hitter from the 1960’s and 1970’s where using Amphetamines?
^^^Imagine each of those sluggers come up positive, except Ramirez. Manny Saves the Soul of Baseball.
Amphetamines have been around since the 1880s. It started gaining use in the 20s and in WWI in particular, the Germans issued them to the SS and shock troops to make their border to border runs.
Manny and Thome came from a Cleveland team that were neck deep in roids.
Guys: My point was that there are already as many sluggers who have been linked as haven’t. Obviously there may be even more before this season (or week?) is over.
The reason for the post was simply to mention that this whole story has really hammered home to me just how this era in baseball is going to be defined: Not by numbers, but by how those numbers were achieved.
Maybe that’s pretty obvious – in fact, it almost surely is. But it’s just sad.
It was sadder when it was going on and no one was reporting it.
Sam you forgot mike piazza on that list of clean players
What about the drugs they were taking in the 50′s, 60′s, and, 70′s the amphetamines and all the other stimulants they used? I have heard stories once in awhile about coffee pots labeled “leaded” and “unleaded” in the clubhouse for those guys who wanted a pick me up. Let’s stop digging through the garbage trying to find out who did what because it just leads to disappointment and doesn’t help solve anything it only tears down its past tainted or not. They should concentrate on what’s going to keep the sport clean going forward. In the words of the Beatles’ “Let it Be”.
ok so there is a list out there with 104 names on it.
i want to know how this list came into existence and who put it together.
anyone have any good links about this ?
how many people have copies of the list? how’d they get them?
why did novitsky have to raid two places to put two lists together to get one list?
was this the first time it was one list?
or did prza have the list first and wouldn’t give it to novitsky?
and why would he put the two lists together if it was supposed to be anonymous?
bbformvp
You sure about that? I think that was sarcasm but I’m not sure.
Sawyer—-
If former MLB players I’ve spoken are any indication the answer to your question would be ALL of them.
We like to think going make to 755 and 61 would cure everything, but we have no idea how “legit” ANY stastistical accomplishments really are. Do we need asterisks for steroid allegations? Asterisks for suspected aphetemine use? Asterisks for guys who did have to face blacks? Hispanics?
It’s time for purists to admit nothing is pure. It’s time that “Commissioner for Life” Baby Doc Selig stand up and accept the blame for the steroid era must be shared by all including Sam Borden, Bill Madden and other long time writers who cheered McGuire and Sosa when only their children didn’t suspect something.
End the damn witch hunts and demonization of those who have been mentioned, accept the responsibility for looking the other way and condining if not encouraging the steroid era, close the book and go forward with a strong drug testing program and a vow to never let it happen again
But that is really the problem…we’ll never know how many guys were doing it, or which guys. If Pettitte, Brian Roberts and Knoblauch can be implicated, then it really could be anyone.
So what do we do? Not have records from 1985-2009? I think the hall of fame should be just that. A collection of guys with famous levels of accomplishment in the sport. These guys, whether on steroids or not accomplished great feats on the baseball diamond, and their enshrinement will memorialize the Steroid Era in MLB. To block them from the hall is to ignore what baseball is and what it has been. Should we pretend that Barry Bonds never existed?
What about other moral issues? The hall as it is houses some people of dubious moral character, or players who benefited from reduced competition in a long era of segregation, so applying a moral standard now seems hypocritical.
are you kdding me piazza was a naturally thick man he could have been a lumber jack an another time like albert pujhols. notice how jose canseco does not mention piazza. where as everyone else he has mentioned has infact been caught later on.
“The reason for the post was simply to mention that this whole story has really hammered home to me just how this era in baseball is going to be defined: Not by numbers, but by how those numbers were achieved.”
Is the generation before it defined as the greenies era?
It is sad. Steroids have been around for a long time. I remember growing up the uproar every four years, about East German and Russian Olympic athletes. Going back to Munich in 1972, at least. How do we know how long they’ve been a part of baseball?
The fans are complicit as well. We continue to go to the parks, get the MLB packages, buy the “stuff,” whatever. We have contributed to the belief that everything is okay.
Alex Rodriguez has 500+ homers and has been connected with steroids. No need to wait for Sheff on this one.
Angel -
Would it be fair to assume that we could probably figure it started around the same time that heavy weight training became accepted in baseball?
“It’s time that “Commissioner for Life” Baby Doc Selig stand up and accept the blame for the steroid era must be shared by all including Sam Borden, Bill Madden and other long time writers who cheered McGuire and Sosa when only their children didn’t suspect something.”
What exactly would they have been reporting? Even if they suspected a guy of using steroids they would have had to have some sort of proof before they could go report on it.
I think one of the sillier arguments is blaming on the reporters who may or may not have suspected something but didn’t report on it.
How many editors would allow one of their writers to publish a story about how they have suspicions of players using steroids unless they had some sort of facts to back it up?
Roberts seems like the Kitty Kelley of sports reporters.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3891444
November 2003 — BALCO grand jury subpoenas test results of all MLB players from survey testing in 2003; the results were supposed to be anonymous.
March 2004 — Following negotiations with the union and the testing agencies, a subpoena is re-issued for only 10 players connected to BALCO.
April 8, 2004 — The MLBPA files a motion to quash the subpoenas. MLB, while mostly trying to avoid taking a position, files a letter in support of the union’s motion.
April 9, 2004 — The government raids Comprehensive Drug Testing (CDT) in Long Beach, Calif., and Quest Labs in Las Vegas, obtaining documents and test results from CDT and actual samples and other documents from Quest, all enabling the government to put names to the samples and results. Investigators find a list of 104 positives, reportedly including Alex Rodriguez.
so that’s how the feds got the “list”.
did anyone else already have the ” list” ?
It’s a real shame. I can’t imagine how this era will be perceived in the future just yet, but let’s say the overall achievement across baseball, with regards to statistics, steadily decreases.. will baseball be the same?
What this story has made me realize is that even the players we have no doubt are clean may have indeed succumbed to the use of steroids and we just don’t know it yet. I really hope the list of the other 103 is somehow revealed. The steroid talks will never end if the doubt keeps mounting.
Doreen, have you enjoyed watching the games and do you still enjoy wearing your jersey and hat? If so what the problem. If the MLB as an org. apologizes and lays forth a new sytem to prevent PED’s I think we fans should accept that and move on. Its the only way to stop the 24/7 stream of steroid speculation. Imagine a baseball season without a new steriods book, how nice would that be.
Piazza?!
His sample probably contained estrogen.
“and why would he put the two lists together if it was supposed to be anonymous?”
because Novitsky is a slimeball who thinks he is above the law… and considering he gets away with it I guess he is.
“Would it be fair to assume that we could probably figure it started around the same time that heavy weight training became accepted in baseball?”
***********************************************************
Yeah, I’d go with that. I can’t see any other reason to take that if you’re not doing heavy weight training, given the reasons they’re taken. I think greenies have have just as big an impact on the numbers in the game as steroids, for different reasons though.
Hey, I just got The Yankee Years from the library. I’m gonna start to tonight. It might even be a refreshing change from all of this A-Rod/Steroids stuff. Who’d have said that only a week ago?
I despise what Bonds and all the others did as far as taking PEDs.
However, I despise how the players lost their constitutional rights even more.
“According to Rep. Henry A. Waxman in his March 17,2005 opening statement before the House Government Reform Committee:
“Congress first investigated drugs and professional sports, including steroids over 30 years ago. I think perhaps the only two people in the room who will remember this are me and Commissioner Selig, because I believe he became owner in 1970″.
In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found–and I quote–”drug use exists…in all sports and levels of competition…In some instances, the danger of improper drug use–primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids–can only be described as alarming”.
http://www.protrade.com/conten.....f05e1a00a7
yEA AND who knows about those guys who have not been connected – there are over 100 names to be revealed.
Frankly, arod is just a product of the times as are all of these guys. Can you really discount he numbers he has put up if it is proved he only did it in 2003? Further, shouldnt it have to be proved that he did it at some point outside of 2003 rather than alex having to prove that he did not use. I am starting to get really annoyed that ppl are assuming that because he tested positive in 2003 none of his numbers are relevant any more. Shouldnt we wait for confirmation about some year outside of 2003. I mean he did win multiple mvps after 2003. Do those no longer count because of this? I beg to differ. Unless i find definitive proof that arod used during his yankee years or arod comes out and says it, I can only believe that 2003 was a tainted year and from there on out he was clean. This country still rules on innocent until proven guilty unless something has changed. As far as we know, throughout his yankee years, arod has been clean.
To 86w183
I agree. I have a close unamed source that played 13 years of professional baseball including 4 at the major league level during that era. He said it was no big deal that everybody did it including future Hall of Famers. How do you think they were able to play true Sunday doubleheaders in Texas during July/August.
Wow, Sam. I bet you received a lot of insightful comments about this situation. This is what you chose to write?
Not exactly well thought out…
Why didn’t Selena publish (or get) other names? You didn’t mention that in your last post chiding us for asking…
This isn’t the first generation to use PEDs, this is the generation that got us talking about it.
Some want to act like PEDs should be the exclusive burden of the players of mid-1990s to now.
More proof that the Yanks should sign Manny
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05.....38;ei=5087
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
Published: May 18, 2008
According to a lawyer who spoke on condition of anonymity because the government’s plans are supposed to remain confidential, federal authorities will seek to question each of the 104 players about where and how they obtained the substance detected in their urine samples.
The authorities then intend to distribute the information they receive to federal prosecutors around the country.
—————————————–
ok, this article explains the whole deal with the list. arod is just the first . the feds intend to out every single player.
Besides ARod, who’s the worst Yankee in team history?
Just got home from a long day at work, and, sad to say, I did not have a nightmare yesterday. This story is real.
Just read SJ44′s suggestion for an ARod response, on Sam’s previous post. It’s pretty good, I think, and I agree with SJ – it may be Alex’s only chance to get out from under this cloud. Come clean, show some real remorse, and give a plan for going forward that shows he’s more virtuous than Caesar’s wife (forgive the Shakespearean metaphor, but it seems appropriate).
I remember reading last year, after the WS opt-out fiasco, that Alex had hired a PR firm to advise him. Time to see if he’s getting his money’s worth.
I work under the assumption that everyone is using PEDs, so that I won’t be shocked when names are inevitably revealed. It’s a shame that history is tainted in this way, but the even greater shame is that this is what we’re talking about, instead of pitchers and catchers in five more days.
This is why as a 40-year old, I’ll never be as emotionally invested as I was when I was younger. I don’t know how to pass the unabashed joy of following your team to my kid. It’s just not in me anymore.
Contrary to what a couple of “influential people” may think, I’m not defending the use of steroids by Rodriguez or anybody else. I’m defending his/their right to be innocent until proven guilty, and just because acquaintence/collegue (no matter how much she’s respected by said “influential people”) says it’s true, it doesn’t make it so.
Phil Parcells
February 8th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Besides ARod, who’s the worst Yankee in team history?
————————————————————
Hal Chase.
And Rodriguez is far down the list of “besides”
not as bad as babe ruth’s era… AKA no blacks or latinos era
Tony -
Of course I have enjoyed the games. No I do not own a Yankee hat, my daughters each have one jersey. All I’m saying is that people are point fingers of blame here for turning a blind eye, and we, the fans, have willingly done the same because the game has been exciting. We have known some of our stars have pumped up, and suspected others, and for the most part have been a happy bunch. I’m not being a martyr here. Just stating fact.
If we had stayed home in protest (horrors! Too many muscles, too many homeruns!), the money would not be there. We are the money. We don’t watch – there goes advertising revenue. We don’t go to games, there go ticket sales and concessions and souvenirs. We don’t buy the MLB package, there goes more revenue.
Most of us are happy to just enjoy watching our teams and let the other stuff happen. Until something like this comes along, which seems to be about once a year. Then we’re loud, but we’ll still go to the games, because we love baseball.
babe ruth *
February 8th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
not as bad as babe ruth’s era… AKA no blacks or latinos era
————————————————————
Then again, you aren’t too bright. Dolphe Luque, Lefty Gomez are but two of the “Latinos”.
not as bad as babe ruth’s era… AKA no blacks era.
waiting for your response green beret! i bet its “oh blacks arent good anyway. whites are superior” ??? you racist punk!!!
greenberet- i know you hate arod b/c he isn’t white! i’ve been reading your posts and theyre all anti-arod! you racist punk!
i bet you think brosius is better!? guess what brosius was also roiding. take a look at his godly stat increase with the yankees! SAY IT AINT SO
yeah im a racist punk!
babe ruth should have an asterisk next to his name for not playing with blacks, latinos, asians.
i need a vacation…
hahah greenberet7 finally came to his senses! welcome back man
Phil Parcells February 8th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Besides ARod, who’s the worst Yankee in team history?
****************************************************
Color me shocked. You decided to give the “hes not going to the HOF” posts a rest?
Wow! “babe ruth *” guy really lost it
Yeah…we need registration here soon
“Just a thought:
How many 500 home run hitter from the 1960’s and 1970’s where using Amphetamines?”
That’s a pathetic comparison. amphetamines the reason they hit 500 homers? do you know what an amphetamine is? can’t compare greenies to roids. Did every guy start hitting 50 home runs a year then? No. roids made it a joke where 40-somethings win Cy Youngs and hit 70 home runs.
from the previous thread, but for Doreen and others who were concerned about the possible content of Roberts’ upcoming book:
Betsy, when someone feels the need to write a down-and-dirty book exposing a public figure’s vulnerabilities, I always feel the need to ask why and wonder what is behind it.
Let me say this. I have no idea what that garbage digger intends to probe in her book but if she is going near issues having to do with his personal life in a way that might embarrass him, meaning if she intends to try to introduce salacious content that goes beyond information about Alex that is already public, she will definitely be biting off more than she can chew.
I will personally start a letter-writing campaign and will contact every agent, sponsor, attorney, and anyone else associated with Arod, and I will write letters to every newspaper in the US urging Arod to sue her as flat as a pancake.
I am extremely unhappy with so much about Arod, not the least of which is this latest information. But someone delving into issues of his sexuality (first I’ve heard that it needs delving into, except for jokes that Sox fans made about him and Jeter – and they were obvious jokes) will have crossed the line in the most despicable and unacceptable manner of all. Selena Roberts better be prepared for the fallout if that suggestion turns out to be fact.
I would hope I’d have help from people on this forum.
There’s freedom of the press and then there’s invading and ruining someone to earn 15 seconds of fame.
GB7
you beat me to Hal Chase. Well done, sir. Carl Mays was also a bad guy. Ben Chapman was a nightmare. Leo Durocher got run off the Yanks for stealing from Babe Ruth while he slept. A bunch more have ended up in jail or the John Birch Society. The Yanks have had some bad guys.
Babe Ruth *…It’s a sacridledge that The Babe’s name is associated with crap you just sprayed all over us….I hope you don’t have a job that you get paid to think……Lakers go East and just whip the so called beast of the East…..
Here is my definition of this Yankee generation: Steroids and flushing money down the drain. Am I wrong?
Steroids were around in babe ruth’s time…. doubt he did, but u never know.
“I will personally start a letter-writing campaign and will contact every agent, sponsor, attorney, and anyone else associated with Arod, and I will write letters to every newspaper in the US urging Arod to sue her as flat as a pancake.”
If he did roids, how can he sue?
S.A.-I still support A-Rod
February 8th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Yeah…we need registration here soon
————————————————————
LMAO. If he wasn’t so pathically obvious, it would be funny.
what a post, 86!
NOLAN RYAN *
I wonder how many different roids this guy put his system.
I heard he fixed Randy Johnson’s control? Huh… more like personally injecting him with roids….
oh, the crack-pots are out tonight.
GB, I just read up on Hal Chase- dude was a crooked SOB, that’s for sure.
Randy Johnson *
Nolan Ryan *
Roger Clemens *
Pedro Martinez * (notice all the injuries)
Curt Schilling *
Greg Maddux * (don’t let his unimpressive physique trick you!)
babe ruth
hmm b ru
What do you think GB, do we have a winner?
“If he did roids, how can he sue?”
She’s not talking about that!
She’s talking about the rumored insinuations in the book contained about his sexual preferences. Or is that also fair game?
Lots of Yankees involved with steroids. Cheaters never win!!! Pride and the Pinstripes/Syringes
Finally some good news out of all of this: I have it on very good authority (friend works for Casey Close) that Curt Schilling’s name is on that list of 104 players
Doris: Are you serious? Also, do you know of anyone else?
One of my friends (he will remain anonymous) has told me that David “BIG PAPI” Ortiz’s name is on the list.
How would an agent know who is on the list?
JohnnyC:
Why didn’t she get the other names? Because she didn’t. Because her reporting led her to get A-Rod’s name, which I’d say is newsworthy. I’m not her, so I don’t know specifics of her work, but I’d venture a guess that the reason she didn’t get the other names isn’t because she didn’t ask but because her sources weren’t willing (or able) to give them.
That’s just my opinion.
I just heard Schilling… no ortiz, varitek or anyone else. just schilling.
If she’s really going after making any kind of insinuation about his sexual preferences based on the kind of woman he prefers, well that seems tenuous, at best.
My husband prefers tall women. It could be extrapolated to say that means he has a “thing” for giraffes instead of tall women?
In this brave, new kind of world, apparently so. LOL.
theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. *crosses fingers*
She didn’t get other names cause her forthcoming book is about ARod, not other players. This is all about money for her, and the larger truth be damned.
The title of the book, “Hit and Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez,” insinuates that A-Rod is a shady guy who is living a charade. It would not surprise me if Selena Roberts tries to expose A-Rod as someone who leads a double life and is secretly on the “down low.” Is she going to write about how A-Rod “struck out” or “scored” at the gay bars? Tabloid journalism at its best.
I hear ya, Angel. What’s the point of even going “there”.
Arod likes girls who are “fit”. So what?
My girl friend played rugby in college. What can be assumed about that?
Who really cares if he is gay or not?
Raymagnetic—
It’s not at all “silly” to call out the media that was leading the cheers and looking the other way in 1998.
Of course there should not have been stories about rumors; that’s not how professional reporting works. There should have been investigative reports checking on the remarkable surge in size on the part of individuals in the game. There should have been investigative reports on the surge of HR that were written off to “juiced balls”. (Double entendre’ intended)
The proof I am right is from the way the media attacked the guy who asked McGuire about his bottle of Andro. Some called for his credentials to be revoked and yet it was the most important thing any member of the professional media did.
This story seems more like a hand delivered leak to smear one player than any real work. If the reporters had actually done real work they would not have come away with one player, they’d have had many many more.
Arod fan
February 8th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. crosses fingers
That’s really ignorant….
Selena Roberts looks like someone hit her in the face with a bag full of hot nickels
‘ But the 104 players would be asked to provide testimony — to federal agents or before grand juries — to lead investigators to the distributors. The players’ identities could become public if their testimony is used in government documents to obtain search warrants or to charge individuals.” – nytimes link above
almost a year ago this article was written. it said 104 players would be questioned to lead investigators to dealers.
so alex was going to be questioned one way or the other, whether his name was released now or later.
so it seems very simple to me that if he tells them what he did and that’s it. some dealer is right now knowing that if alex talks he’s the real target of the feds.
maybe there’s another reason alex is in the bahamas. it might be for his safety.
the feds can’t question alex now based on the list because of a court order. he needs to be proactive and put his info out there because it’s going to be a while before they get to him. probably the best thing is for his supplier to turn himself in too.
if he doesn’t want to that could be a little sticky.
at any rate this story was right in the new york times almost a year ago.
what were we thinking that it was going to go away ?
i still haven’t seen anything that says the 104 players know they are on the list.
who would have thought in 2003 that if someone were asked who would be in the hall of fame from the pool of jeter, garciaparra, arod, and tejada the answer would be only jeter ?
these 104 players are the pig that has to go through the python. until it does it’s not going to be over.
Phil
February 8th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
GB7
you beat me to Hal Chase. Well done, sir. Carl Mays was also a bad guy. Ben Chapman was a nightmare. Leo Durocher got run off the Yanks for stealing from Babe Ruth while he slept. A bunch more have ended up in jail or the John Birch Society. The Yanks have had some bad guys.
————————————————————
From what I’ve read about Mays, even though he had a nasty disposition on days he pitched, he wasn’t a head hunter. He did throw a spitball, though, but it was legal at that time. He and Ray Chapman were supposedly fairly good friends, and took the beaning hard. Before hapman lapsed into a coma, he told somebody in the room to tell Mays to to worry about it, that he knew Mays didn’t mean to hit him.
Ben Chapman, I know who he was, but, not much about him other than the guy who replaced Ruth in right field, could run like a der and was the alltime steals and single season steals leader until Henderson.
OK, correction on Chapman. Just looked him up, he was apparently hotheaded and a racist. As a player manager, he apparently gave Jackie Robinson much grief. This I got from the Official Yankee Encyclopedia.
Arod Fan-
Why would A-Rod being gay make you stop being a fan?
Checkout some of her pieces for the NYT this women is a one person wrecking crew.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/.....index.html
Arod fan
February 8th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. crosses fingers
Amazing to me that in 2009 someone would feel this way. You sir, are an embarassment to all yankee fans
Who cares if he’s gay, Arod fan? What difference does it make?
GB7
Mays was never contrite about the pitch that killed, although he was a great pitcher and better than many hall of famers. That said he was involved in insurance frauds and many other shady dealing during and after his career.
Arod fan is not AROD fan!
Arod fan February 8th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. crosses fingers
==================================
Even if he was, you can still be a fan of his.
Gay, straight-who cares. Not any of our business. Someone tell Ms. Roberts that.
I HOPE arod is gay! puts a new meaning in “A-ROD UP THE MIDDLE”
c’mon who really cares if AROD is gay.
i always been an arod fan for a long timeeeee and im always going to support him because hes my favorite player
it’s annoying when the filter eats your post.
maybe it’ll pop up.
my point was alex is not the target of the feds if he cooperates. they are after the dealers…
on second thought then why aren’t radomski and mcnamee in jail ?
alex’s dealer is at risk if alex talks, maybe that’s why alex is in the bahamas- for his safety.
A-rod has embarrased the whole organization! http://www.fanzak.com/Cheater
Tom
February 8th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
oh, the crack-pots are out tonight.
GB, I just read up on Hal Chase- dude was a crooked SOB, that’s for sure.
————————————————————
Yeah, he was banned from baseball for a lot of things, but, most notably in connection with the 1919 scandal as a go between for Bill Burns and Arnold Rothstein’s group. It’s a little shady in that area. Christy Mathewson said he wanted him off of the team because he was throwing games.
Besides Thomas, I’m not so sure the others were clean. Would not surprise me at all if Manny did steroids.
How come no one has mentioned that Selena Roberts was the one who wrote the terrible piece for the NY Times about the Duke lacrosse players and still will not admit she is wrong.
http://backporch.fanhouse.com/.....wrong-abo/
A-Rod is getting much more love there than Joe Torre did a week ago….Go figure…
This conversation is really reminding me of the Seinfeld, “not that there’s anything wrong with that!”
If ARod wanted anyone to know he was gay, it’s his right to say so, not someone who is hell-bent on destroying someone’s reputation, if not career and livelihood.
There are probably a few gay ballplayers. It’s not something I want to know, nor do I need to know it. The only reason to write a book like this is dishonorable to the author. It serves no purpose. It has no bearing on what he does or who he is – and I don’t care!!!!! I didn’t care about the strippers or Madonna either. He’s not my husband. I don’t care.
(Posted on the wrong thread)
Betsy and Trisha,
That is really disturbing about Roberts’ book. I’ve always believed that a lot of the hostility towards ARod is based on his refusal to conform to traditional, neanderthal notions of masculinity. I think he just twitches the nerves of people with homophobic tendencies.
However, I don’t believe he’s been a closet case for all these years, because if he was, he would be a lot more careful about things like his frosted hair. (If I’m wrong, however, he should come out on that as well. It would certainly put the steroid stuff in perspective, and would make him a lot more sympathetic. Plus, once he was out, people would have to be a lot more careful about the homophobia).
That’s really ignorant….
completely ignorant! i mean, what? are you a fan of him on the basepaths or of who he hooks up w in his spare time? i couldnnt care less what his sexual preference is! as long as he still plays at a high level. am i disappointed in the revelation of steroid use? yes! am i surprised? no. lets just hope he goes the way of andy and giambi, and NOT the way of clemens with the roid issue!
Thanks for responding on the last thread everyone.
I wasn’t here for the stupid poster that fled.
But there’s a lot of vitriol towards Selena. Valid, for sure.
But there have been men who’ve gotten the story wrong and never apologized.
And I am not a feminist. Just saying that no journalist of any gender would’ve sat on that story. They know if they don’t report it, someone else will.
I’ve got a feeling that she doesn’t have the list. Otherwise, she’d have a bigger story if it was Alex and Thomas or Thome or whomever.
I’d love to find out about the breadcrumb trail she took and why the gatekeeper gave her the info.
Government squeeze play or Red Sox fan?
randy,
I will believe that everyone on the list will be ousted when i see it. And what are they going to write an indvidual article about each player like they did with arod? That is a joke
ARod is not even in the top 1000 worst yankees – pavano is in the discussion though. There is far, far worse things players can do than use roids before they were even on the team.
yankees arod fan,
Those are the dumbest, most ignorant comments i have heard in my life. Congratulations and please, grow up. You realize this is 2009 and not 1809 right?
Phil
February 8th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
GB7
Mays was never contrite about the pitch that killed, although he was a great pitcher and better than many hall of famers. That said he was involved in insurance frauds and many other shady dealing during and after his career.
What you (or anybody) believes with the Mays/Chapman incident, I guess depends on what and where you read it. Most of my Yankee history books said what I did, but, it could have been that Mays, who threw a hard submarine pitch along with a spitball wasn’t above knocking batters off of the plate. Don’t have a clue about the fraud charges, though.
Well, Alex did wear that scarf thingy…
I hate writing personal attacks or bashing people in the comments section of this blog but sometimes, the comments are so obnoxious, ignorant and just plain dumb that I cannot just bite my lip. Today is one of those days.
Someone on here had a Fred McGriff shout-out…
It is guys like McGriff I feel most bad for- those stars from the 80′s and early 90s who were borderline HOFers and whose numbers look average thanks to the roid users who put up their 500 homerun seasons.
I’m not a big fan of Pedro Martinez, but I loved when he came out and said something to the effect of, “Look what I did against these guys, and they were all on PEDs, and I still kicked their a***s.” It put guys like him and Maddux in a whole other class.
“theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. crosses fingers”
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if he was bi-sexual. He already loves old women, cheats on his wife, and shoots up.
Doris from Rego Park February 8th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Finally some good news out of all of this: I have it on very good authority (friend works for Casey Close) that Curt Schilling’s name is on that list of 104 players
****************************************************
How can you say something like that! Doncha know Schilling is republican and a born-again jesus freak.
m,
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I always find it interesting when women say they aren’t feminists.
How come? Is it because you don’t believe women should have equal rights, equal pay, or a free choice to stay home or join any profession they want to?
Or do you believe women should have equal rights, but just don’t want to be labeled a feminst?
As far as I’m concerned A-Rod should either admit to the failed test or fight it tooth and nail. I am still a supporter of Alex because without him the Yankees arent sniffing 27. Lets put the shock and hate aside and view this as fans. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I shocked? No. Any big time HR hitter is a possible PED user I never suspected A-Rod but then again in this baseball age who can be trusted? I have made peace with this issue already and I just hope that there is a resolution and that the Yankees can go deep into October, and in order to do that we need to accept A-Rod and not make him a Bonds like figure.
I’m not a big fan of Pedro Martinez, but I loved when he came out and said something to the effect of, “Look what I did against these guys, and they were all on PEDs, and I still kicked their a***s.” It put guys like him and Maddux in a whole other class.
**********************************************************
Unless they were in the whole other class of pitchers who used PED’s themselves.
“theres no way arod is gay! i hope not… cause then i would have to stop being a fan…. crosses fingers”
I hope that was a joke because if not, you are the dumbest person on this blog right now.
Appropos of nothing, or maybe not, but I’m watching MLB TV and they’re showing 1998 game between Houston and the Cubs at Wrigley. Kerry Woods (!) fanned 20 that day. My family was living in Chicagoland back then. We saw more Cubs/White Sox baseball that year than Yankee baseball. I missed the single best season of our Yankees.
Sorry for the interruption. Carry on….
Russell NY-
So ARod has a thing for senior citzens. Meh.
Claire,
what does it even mean to be a feminist? Do you just think woman should have equal rights? I though there was more to it than that. if that is the case, the feminist movement should be over because under the current law, women DO have equal rights.
GB7
Bob Shawkey sold insurance in the offseason. He sold an auto insurance policy to Carl Mays, who had someoneone else steal the car and then tried to collect on the insurance. His teammates pretty much ignored him after the Chapman incident. Character aside, he’d be a hall of famer.
dave -
Don’t go there. Re: Feminism.
Clare,
I’m half Japanese, half American. Let’s just say that I’m more eastern than western in regards to my views on women.
I appreciate the rights we have and wouldn’t give them back, but I don’t like playing the women are victims in today’s society.
So yeah, I don’t want to be labeled a feminist.
Celerino Sanchez
“Just a thought:
How many 500 home run hitter from the 1960’s and 1970’s where using Amphetamines?”
“That’s a pathetic comparison. amphetamines the reason they hit 500 homers? do you know what an amphetamine is? can’t compare greenies to roids. Did every guy start hitting 50 home runs a year then? No. roids made it a joke where 40-somethings win Cy Youngs and hit 70 home runs.”
So I guess the players from that era took speed just for fun not to enhance their performance.
playing that card that is.
Jim Thome 2002 season…52 homers on 480 at bats.
His best power year after 11 years in league?
dorreen,
ok…
Doreen,
Did anyone else in your family read TYY?
Yeah, I dont see a discussion here on feminism going anywhere good…
“I will believe that everyone on the list will be ousted when i see it. And what are they going to write an indvidual article about each player like they did with arod? That is a joke”
dave-
this is serious stuff. novitsky has the list. he has the names already. alex has been outed.
it’s not something that goes backwards. he has to deal with it. others will have to deal with it later.
novitsky can’t really do anything to players if they don’t lie. he gets them with the perjury trap. marion jones did jail time for perjury. this is what arod needs to avoid. it’s that serious.
now why the yankees have been hurt by novitsky’s balco investigation rather than the red sox is another matter open for debate.
giambi, sheffield, clemens, pettitte, and now arod have all been nailed. not a single red sox player. interesting.
Check out the SIZE of the bat ARod is swinging
http://www.nypost.com/
Whew!
m,
This is probably not the place for this discussion, but I just wanted to note that playing the victim card is not how feminists define feminism. Too often people who don’t want to called feminists mean that they don’t want to be what Rush Limbough calls feminists, and I think women need to stop letting enemies of feminism define what it means to be a feminist.
Rooting for the yanks is like rooting for cheaters.
where did my post go?
Phil
February 8th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
GB7
Bob Shawkey sold insurance in the offseason. He sold an auto insurance policy to Carl Mays, who had someoneone else steal the car and then tried to collect on the insurance. His teammates pretty much ignored him after the Chapman incident. Character aside, he’d be a hall of famer.
————————————————————
LMAO. Maybe Mays didn’t like the car. I never knew that. I’ve got family that would fit right in with Mays’ cash raising ideas.
What about all the World Series that were won in the steroid era. Do they count?
The media loves controversy as it is but a Yankee in trouble is like letting a pack of wolves out in a butcher-shop.
Phil Parcells, that’s a big bat.
Anyone catch “The Sport Reporters?”
It was pretty good and they didn’t bash A-rod too much.
Ryan: From ’95 forward those records should be under suspicion and let people judge them for themselves.
Kay: How Alex does in the next 9 years should determine his legacy/HOF chances.
Saunders: Alex was supposed to be the ONE. We may have to recognize 755 & 61 again.
Lupica: (he was very fair and calm) Mentioned the 4th Amendment rights, unreasonable search and seizure.
?: Judging by recent voting, Alex probably doesn’t get into the HOF.
Lupica: Maybe he should use the Floyd Landis defense, “Go and prove it”. How scared are you if you’re one of the 103? This also helps Bonds.
Kay: Let’s out all the guys so you can see how widespread it is.
Saunders: Union to blame for the violation of the 4th amendment.
Ryan: Union is made up of lawyers, they were supposed to protect clients.
Lupica: In trying to protect the guilty, the damned the innocent and it turned out they can’t protect anything. Give public all the info. Let them decide.
Some how this Arod revelation seems to condemn the whole generation of ballplayers. I guess its because he is the best. That’s why it’s so sad.
On a related matter, what does this stuff do to the chances of Moose getting into the HOF? He appears to be borderline now, but if others are excluded because they were juicing, shouldn’t his numbers be considered under a different light? He was pretty dominant for a long time and there are very few pitchers who put together better numbers and the best is now a cheating crook. To me players that put up borderline numbers and are thought to be clean ought to get a bump in consideration if the players thought to be dirty are getting a knock.
Oh my goodness gracious A-Rod is on steroids!!!
A-Rod with another A-Roid!
So let’s see: steroids, his hair, his sexuality. What else are we going to discuss regarding Alex?
His diet? Maybe he needs more fiber?
Boxers or briefs?
m -
My husband is reading it now; my brother-in-law and mom are waiting in line to read it.
Off Topic -
Anyone watching 60 Minutes? Couric is interviewing the pilot who landed the aircraft in the Hudson. What an amazing story and what an amazing person.
Who’s to say Mussina wasn’t on something?
The Hall of Fame should have a 10 or 15-year period of no inductees. Who says you need to induct more guys every year? This way there will be some historical perspective in this era, more players will be outed etc.
m,
Thanks for the recap.
Maybe it’s a good thing for ARod to wait a bit to respond. Hopefully the initial shock and disappointment will dissipate a little, and most columnists will have already written their ARod is such a phony columns.
Maybe when he finally speaks more people will look at it a little more rationally, and in contect of the whole era. The downside, of course, is that the longer he waits, the more people will have chimed in on how exactly he should handle it, and so will be enraged if he doesn’t take their advice.
Clare,
Please update me. I grew up when that Gloria women was burning bras.
I may be ignorant about it, that’s why I don’t identify with it.
Moose is already in the candy bar hall of fame.
Even though I’m not pleased with A-Rod atm. I still want to hear the facts and if this test was in fact from 2003 he never technically failed a test with the Yankees. Perhaps if he came out with an honest answer like Andy then this would blow over a bit.
If I’m the Yankees, I can’t really say anything until either A-rod or a definitive “yes, he’s on the list” comes from MLB or the union.
Doreen
February 8th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
m –
My husband is reading it now; my brother-in-law and mom are waiting in line to read it.
————————————————————
Is it snowing and the line half way around the block, Doreen? Will you be signing autographs?
doreen-
has your brain turning to mush yet?
mine is pretty much there.
i’m in agreement with sj44 that alex needs to do an apology and own up to it.
if he doesn’t it’s just going to be a long term pain in the butt.
we were all debating cashman and torre a few days ago.
this list of 104 players has been in existence since 2004. wouldn’t it be great if cashman had that list of players? especially before sighing arod after he opted out.
mitchell likely knew who was on that list. so we have to assume the red sox got heads up on signing players. they may even have the list, though that would be a risky thing to have in your possession . even mitchell wouldn’t want it in his possession.
but you know novitsky told him who was on it. had to.
how do we know burnett isn’t on it? he fits the profile.
as i said, my brain is turning to mush.
My question is – what would you do if you were one of the 103? Would you keep quiet and hope no more names leak? Seems pretty risky. How about if you are contacted by the press for a comment on ARod?
I would be tempted to come clean now, when it’s sure to get lost in the ARod story, especially if I wasn’t a HOF candidate. I don’t think anyone would do that, however, because that would undermine the rationale for keeping the list private, and would screw the union and the rest of the players on the list.
Clare,
Chances are very good that a lot of those people are retired and living in (relative) peace.
“now why the yankees have been hurt by novitsky’s balco investigation rather than the red sox is another matter open for debate.”
Randy,
it is because their dealers haven’t been busted. That’s the only way they got Pettitte and clemens. George Mitchell was such a joke – if the feds hadn’t busted Radomski and McNamee, and they were forced to give up client names, Mitchell had ZERO names that we hadn’t heard before. If the authorities didn’t want to let Mitchell on it, he wouldn’t have had beans. He is a bigger joke than Selig.
Yeah, Doreen.
You should sell annotated editions of the book.
“cashman had that list of players? especially before sighing arod after he opted out.”
He didn’t need the list – Sheffield had been called by Balco grand jury and Yanks signed him anyway. They knew Giambi was on it – that came out in the struggle to void his contract.
Clemens? well, we don’t know but there was no need for the club to hire Brian McNamee, Clemens’ bag man, when they could hire any trainer in the world who is more qualified. So Cashman must have known McNamee was serving some kind of purpose.
Fitzgerald would make Eli forget about Plax really fast.
Off Topic –
Anyone watching 60 Minutes? Couric is interviewing the pilot who landed the aircraft in the Hudson. What an amazing story and what an amazing person.
===========================================
Watching. He really does seem like an amazing person. The man is so calm and collected. He is a hero.
M, no I didn’t catch the Sports Reporters. Wow, Lupica was being reasonable today?
Was Kay, as a Yankee announcer, shocked? I’m actually very interested to hear his POV tomorrow on his radio show….also, how he thinks this will affect the Yankees. Fox Sports had an article about same, but I decided not to link to it because it was pretty disappointing (Alex has few friends, Jeter doesn’t support him, this group of new free agents will never bond and this team won’t really be a team again….yadda yadda yadda. Most of this stuff is silly, false or has been disproved).
randy I,
I don’t think Mitchell knew who was on the list. Based on reading most of the report, I don’t think he even tried to get the list, or tried to get names from some of the ongoing internet pharmacy investigations. That’s why I think Mitchell owes MLB a refund. He was supposed to put the steroid era behind them, but he didn’t even try to come up with a complete list, or even try to get names the governmnet already had in its possession.
His report was based totally on already published reports, and informants. He was hired for his quasi-governmental status, but he didn’t even try to use it to come up with a more complete report.
randy, I’m not going to argue about your brain/mush thing, but I though Cashman wanted to let Arod walk after the opt-out. Shoehorning this thing into your anti-Cashman jihad isn’t going to be easy.
m
February 8th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Clare,
Please update me. I grew up when that Gloria women was burning bras.
I may be ignorant about it, that’s why I don’t identify with it.
————————————————————
Back in the early ’60s Gloria Steinham was a journalist/writer and decided to write a story, basically on women being exploited. She went to the seat of the issue and got a job as a Playboy Bunny. That was basically the start. After that, she started “Ms Magazine”.
I can’t say that I personally burned any bras, but, I did help those with trouble reaching the hooks. Just doing my part, you understand.
Betsy,
Regarding the team, time cures a lot of ills. It’s a blessing in disguise that Alex is playing in the WBC.
The Yankees can concentrate on getting their pitchers familiar with Jorge & Jose.
The young bullpen arms can compete for slots. And Gardner gets a good look-see in center field.
If Alex addresses it this week, that gives about 6 weeks or so until real baseball starts. Alex, you’re on the clock now.
Betsy-
Kay wasn’t shocked, rather he was bummed that a negative story is taking center stage.
I’m not condoning PED use, but it always amazes me how baseball players are front page news for failing a drug test….and yet football players make it to the Pro Bowl.
Everyone is concerned about records….but baseball stats are the most skewed stats in sports. No two stadiums are identical…like they are in football, basketball, hockey, etc. An average left handed power bat in Yankee Stadium will have more homeruns than a better hitter in San Diego. I hate Boston, but I bet that Green Monster cost Manny over 50 homeruns. What if he stayed in Cleveland? Or signed with the Rangers? How many homeruns would he have?
So we’re selecting Hall of Famers by stats. Makes no sense.
GB7 -
Thanks for the laugh. Speaking of snow, though, I was so involved in the news cycle yesterday and this blog that I didn’t realize until this morning that all the snow that was on the ground Saturday morning had melted during the day. How pathetic is that????!!
randy l -
Man, I don’t know what to think anymore. Mush seems to solid for what my brain is regarding this anymore.
Watching this 60 Minutes report is refreshing. Uplifting. Needed.
Michael Kay is starting his show @ 1pm tomorrow.
Oh and Betsy, you can listen to Kay’s initial reaction from yesterday about this mess here:
http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....st=3890803
Wasn’t this information supposed to be “anonymous” its funny how legal rights go out the window when someone is trying to make some money.
GB7,
Women everywhere are praising the gods, that the clasp is in the front now and that they don’t need your chivalry.
Which is worse:
Ballplayers taking PEDs (when there was no ban), or reporters plagarizing each other?
Take the HOF vote away from the newswriters until they can all prove that they never plagarized a story.
repost:
Clare I like your points about A-Rod, masculinity and homophobia. Masculinity is related to class, so that upper class masculinity, when adopted by the lower classes, is always labeled gay or somehow sexually perverted. I.e. when male from ghetto starts going to the opera, he is labeled gay. and when upper class male is found in sleezy strip clubs, he is also sexually perverted. A-Rod fits these profiles. He is in a socio-economic class above other players, so he is labeled gay. because he wears scarfs. And when he goes to strip clubs like the rest of the guys, he is a pervert because he is not one of the guys. he is a half-billionaire.
Watching this 60 Minutes report is refreshing. Uplifting. Needed.
*************************************************
but scandals are far more entertaining.
Doreen
February 8th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
GB7 –
Thanks for the laugh. Speaking of snow, though, I was so involved in the news cycle yesterday and this blog that I didn’t realize until this morning that all the snow that was on the ground Saturday morning had melted during the day. How pathetic is that????!!
————————————————————
My pleasure if that gave you a smile, Doreen.
Did you guys see the ESPN segment on Bernie and his guitar playing?
Bernie’s got a new album coming out in the Spring. There’s a song on it vaguely connected to Damon taking over in CF.
The title: “I Can’t Throw, You Can’t Throw”
m
February 8th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
GB7,
Women everywhere are praising the gods, that the clasp is in the front now and that they don’t need your chivalry.
————————————————————
Yeah, nothing that good ever lasts forever.
I’d say that it was my pleasure, but, I’m sure that I’d be classified as a “Male Chauvanist Pig”.
Celerino Sanchez-
jeff novitzky knew the 104 names on the list. he advised mitchell .
do you really think he didn’t tell him arod was on it?
maybe they didn’t have anything on arod except that one test so he wasn’t in the mitchell report.
the names are an ace up novitzky’s sleeve that he can play when he chooses.
it gives the man a lot of power.
you don’t think the yankees would have liked to have known arod was on the list when they resigned him?
do you sign anyone who looks really strong? do you sign burnett now knowing these players are being outed?
GB7, I’m scheduled to be in Savanah it about ten days…Are you near by ?????…It’s a quick trip via Jacksonville and St Simons Island….There’s a bar on the river walk that has all you can eat oystwers for 25.00….In fact I was in that bar in 2000 when it was announced that A-ROD signed his deal with the devil in Texas…..
“on second thought then why aren’t radomski and mcnamee in jail ?”
Well you see it’s like this. The intent of the Mitchell Commission was to find out about players using steroids. If the dealers were going to go to jail, there would have been no bargaining tool to get the information. Happens every day of the week.
I think Novisky is a hero. But that’s a story for another day of the week. And yes unfortunately the only dealers who were interviewed were those with the NY flair.
Clare I used to teach women’s studies. We definitely don’t want to get into a discussion on feminism because it is far too complex (as I am sure you know). Yes I am a feminist.
And for the person who suggested that women have equal rights – you couldn’t be more wrong.
But we’ll leave it at that.
Novitzky, Novitzky, Novitzky.
Also, just because those other players haven’t been linked to steroids does not mean they didn’t use them. For all we know, some of those names you mentioned could be right along with A-Rod’s on that list of those 104 players. I think it’s about time everyone accepts that steroids were a big part of baseball in the recent past and that’s that. Steps have been taken to clean up the game and they are working. Yes people, Selena Roberts, TJ Quinn, every last “investigative reporter” out there…. players from Joe Shmoe to Alex Rodriguez used steroids. GET OVER IT. By this point in time, all anyone is doing is trying to make a name for themselves or make money by creating buzz for books they are writing… or acting like it’s a big deal because they’re on TV or work for ESPN, and well it’s their job to make a big deal out of it. And all the sheep just go BAHHH and listen and agree it’s a huge deal and how it has ruined A-Rod’s career and the Yankees season. PLEASE
I liked Kay’s response on 1050. The Yanks should handle this just like the Andy Pettitte situation, have a press conference let Alex explain himself apologize and then move on. Letting this drag through-out spring training would be foolish.
Novitsky
“Shoehorning this thing into your anti-Cashman jihad isn’t going to be easy.”
nick in sf-
well, it’s bad signing as of now isn’t it? you don’t think the yankees would release arod if they could?
but my real point is the red sox don’t seem to make these kind of decisions that blow up on them. since mitchell worked closely with novitzky, i assume mitchell knew arod was on the list. if mitchell knew it, i figure he’d have a way of getting that to the red sox. if a gm signs more than a few guys on this list, his team is kind of screwed.
i’m too tired to bash cashman. plenty of time for that when he starts looking for a third baseman when a rod is in jail
H
“but my real point is the red sox don’t seem to make these kind of decisions that blow up on them.”
Randy, but it isn’t for lack of trying!
Contreras
Pavano
Arod
was that the only test he failed? if it was he can just say he didn’t do it. And the fact that it was supposed to be anonymous. He could say had he known then he could’ve challenge the results. Didn’t they re-test a negative result from Barry Bonds and it came back positive? i’m just saying.
Here are some random thoughts….get rid of A Fruad or this team will never win a title. Get rid of Pavano Hughes while you can, he is a bust and gets injured more than Pavano himself.
the whole Bonds investigation started with a 5 dollar bet between two agents over whether Bonds took them or didn’t. There’s been no nobility about this at all. It’s sickening and a lot of peoples’ rights have been and will be violated as it goes on.
Randy, forgive me if I skipped that chapter, but how exactly do we know that Novitsky knew the names on that list???
igotid 88, you are exactly right that all Arod would have to do is deny because the list is protected. Now if the loser who leaked the information decided to take it one step further and provide the entire list to the press, well then it would backfire on Arod if he indeed used steroids. Risky.
MYGIRLS- You know little about the game of baseball if you think A-rod is the reason we havent won a title in 8 years. Also Hughes is a bust at 22? I say give him a few months at AAA and let him get his stuff together.
No, randy, your insinuation – your hope, actually – was that Cashman was aware that Arod was on some list from 2003 and that he was negligent in not using that information to keep Arod off the team. If you honestly think that Cashman is aware of the names in the list but kept such information to himself when making major personnal decisions with ownership, this is another place where we part company.
Could jeter be next?
PAT M.
February 8th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
GB7, I’m scheduled to be in Savanah it about ten days…Are you near by ?????…It’s a quick trip via Jacksonville and St Simons Island….There’s a bar on the river walk that has all you can eat oystwers for 25.00….In fact I was in that bar in 2000 when it was announced that A-ROD signed his deal with the devil in Texas…..
————————————————————
Damned. I’ve got to fly out on Friday. I have treatments and a checkup scheduled for the first of next week. It usually takes about 3 days to complete. I’m hoping this finishes things off before the season starts.
Are you plaining on playing golf down at St. Simon’s or Amelia Island? I’m not allowed around there. They said there were enough sand traps and they didn’t need me to mae any more. That damned Orville Moody left word everywhere.
Is anyone watching the grammy’s? Oh my goodness. Whitney Houston is a mess.
“Randy, forgive me if I skipped that chapter, but how exactly do we know that Novitsky knew the names on that list???”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05.....1211256000
“When Novitzky informed the employees that the government might seize many of Comprehensive Drug Testing’s computers for up to 60 days, one employee contacted a company lawyer “exclaiming that such a seizure would ‘shut the business down,’ ” the court documents said.
Ultimately, the agents discovered a master list of all the players who tested positive during their search of Comprehensive Drug Testing. A search that had been initiated to find results for the 10 Balco players had yielded far more.
Meanwhile, other federal agents at Quest Diagnostics in Las Vegas, armed with the code numbers obtained at Comprehensive Drug Testing, first seized the matching urine samples for the Balco players and, a month later, for all the players who tested positive.”
Is the restaureant is Savannah clled Spanky’s…on River street?
Who cares ….wallstreeters steal your money… doctors self medicate…. loads of people do coke …. half of the married people cheat…and lets not forget football players… and sports reporters are evil. anything I left out. oh yeah babe ruth was of africa decent. but still we are all of god children well except for aroid
GB7, I not cleared to hit golf balls yet and I have the itch…Randy I gave me a life tip and I can’t wait to hit the range or at the very least my backyard and hit some whiffle balls…..We’ll catch up as I make the trip south at least twice a year…Charlotte is always on the circuit as well….I do stay away from the summer heat though….
Doreen
February 8th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Is anyone watching the grammy’s? Oh my goodness. Whitney Houston is a mess.
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I’ll bet that Rodriguez caused her issues. Nothing surprises me.
“No, randy, your insinuation – your hope, actually – was that Cashman was aware that Arod was on some list from 2003 and that he was negligent in not using that information to keep Arod off the team.”
nick in sf-
don’t tell me what my insinuations are .
my insinuation is that the red sox have inside info.
you’re exhibiting peanut brain IQ tonight nick. if you can’t keep up with a complex legal matter go back to your joke books.
Wow, Justin Timberlake, Al Green and Keith Urban on the same stage singing Let’s Stay Together.
Just lovin it.
PAT M.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
GB7, I not cleared to hit golf balls yet and I have the itch…Randy I gave me a life tip and I can’t wait to hit the range or at the very least my backyard and hit some whiffle balls…..We’ll catch up as I make the trip south at least twice a year…Charlotte is always on the circuit as well….I do stay away from the summer heat though….
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Sounds great. Next time, maybe we can take in a weekend series in Savannah or Charleston. Both are great places to watch baseball. I’m anxious to see the new batch of kids coming in from Staten Island. I’m hoping they put Brackman in Charleston for a couple of months.
That made me so happy it made me cry. Nothing like happy tears to make you forget the sadness of the last day and a half.
Randy, thanks.
trisha-
you’re welcome. read the whole article when you get a chance .
i don’t think the feds are going to back off on the 104 players they have.
“don’t tell me what my insinuations are . my insinuation is that the red sox have inside info. you’re exhibiting peanut brain IQ tonight nick. if you can’t keep up with a complex legal matter go back to your joke books.”
“we were all debating *cashman* and torre a few days ago.
this list of 104 players has been in existence since 2004. *wouldn’t it be great if cashman had that list of players? especially before sighing arod after he opted out.*”
If you meant “It is regretful that Cashman didn’t have access to that list”, why didn’t you clarify that instead of saying: “well, it’s bad signing as of now isn’t it?” after my comment?
I give you the benefit of the doubt, as your explanation for what you meant makes much more sense, and I apologize for the error, but why didn’t you correct me after my first comment?
Mikey
February 8th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Rooting for the yanks is like rooting for cheaters.
It is people like this clown why a-rod won’t comment. Ignorant fools who dont know anything outside of hating the yankees.
1. A-Rod played for the Rangers in 2003.
2. Giambi was on the Athletics when he was accused.
3. Clemens was in Toronto at the supposed time this whole thing started.
4. I’d love to see some ACTUAL proof that the Yankees are cheaters.
“If you meant “It is regretful that Cashman didn’t have access to that list”, why didn’t you clarify that instead of saying: “well, it’s bad signing as of now isn’t it?” after my comment?”
nick in sf-
regretful is what i meant. i wouldn’t think cashman could get the list. it does put him at a disadvantage.
my brain really is fried.
later nick. peace.
And i love Pete’s theory that this woman is credible because she works for SI. I seem to remember her insistance on the Duke lacrosse players guilt too. There was proof there too.
A woman who for a second time in 10 years, accused three white people of raping her. First time was bogus, the second one turned out to be too. People lost their jobs, these kids were dragged through the mud, and this idiot reporter walked right into a better paying job..
Lets see what this crap will get her?
Ownership of the Boston Herald?
Thank you, randy. And I apologize for telling you what your insinuation was – being wrong about it only makes it worse.
I know we’re on the same side. Times are tough.
#
Are you people serious? You realize when asked about it, he didn’t deny it, or say “I don’t know what you’re talking about”; he said “Talk to the union, I’m not saying anything.” Does that sound like an innocent man to you?
This prima donna, who pines for attention and bangs old pop icons and will probably be worth a billion dollars before his career is over—he deserves all the grief his guilt has brought upon him because people who work just as hard as him, with less gifts than he was naturally blessed with, will never see the kind of ridiculous adulation he’s been showered with his whole career. There are people who make far less money and get far less attention by doing things the right way and the fair way. Why should someone who makes more by doing it the wrong way get a free pass. Screw him.
# Lala February 8th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
And beyond that—and I ask you this as a Yankee fan for 19 of my 22 years—who among you wouldn’t be thrilled and exultant at the same revelations about Manny, or Ortiz, or Papelbon? Would you be decrying breaches of privacy then, or coming up with conspiracy theories? Take your head out of the clouds and consider what’s best for the sport, not just the Yankees or fragile, phony Alex. Why should someone excelling at the game with the help of unnatural, illegal enhancers be treated with the same objective decency as the nameless, platoon, few million dollar career and out player who you won’t remember a few years from now but tried just as hard and never quite got there? Again, screw him.
# Lala February 8th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
And one last thing: Trisha. Are you mentally ill? Are you serious? Last post you said this made you cry. Made you cry? Made you cry for a man who plays a child’s game for millions of dollars? Go and sit in a hospice or a soup kitchen or an emergency room—maybe that will adjust your warped, twisted perspective on all this, where you attack a journalist for doing her job the right way by reporting on a wealthy public figure who does his the wrong way. Maybe a trip to Mott Haven or rural Ohio or Darfur would help you see that this selfish wretch coward of a man isn’t worth a tear. What an embarrassing remark. Made you cry. Something he did to himself, no matter how much phony psychobabble you want to inject into this meaningless discussion. What a weak minded person you must be.
LALA is in the room……I welcome your realistic take on all this…..I respect him immensely as a ball player, however he juiced even if it was only a year or two in Texas….If he cleaned his act since arriving in NYC cool, come clean with it all, lay out your guts and ask for forgivenesa nd understanding that the 250 million dollar contarct and the concern for failing compromised your judgement and lets move on…..Tricia losses her way on occasions
You got it LaLa. I am mentally ill. I am weak minded. And I am also dangerous because of the two aforementioned. So you definitely want to stay out of my face tool.
Thanks!
And hey stupid! Yes that would be you LaLa you flippin idiot. I immediately got all over Arod’s case. Because you flew in from hell and decided to read three posts all of a sudden you’re some expert? Your head is definitely up your backside. So unless you know what you’re talking about STFU.
Thanks!
Oh yeah, Pat M is someone who will love to hang out with someone like you since water seeks its own level. Have a ball!
You are so predictable Trcia…I enjoy when you kick in your defense mechanisms by going on the attack….
Lala
February 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
#
Are you people serious? You realize when asked about it, he didn’t deny it, or say “I don’t know what you’re talking about”; he said “Talk to the union, I’m not saying anything.” Does that sound like an innocent man to you?
——–
Would you even have believed him if he did say he didnt?
No you would say he was lying. So no matter what, he needs to come up with an answer that cannot be taken 100 ways, disected and have him accused of lying.
So him saying talk to the union is smart. Public opinion says he is guilty anyway, so he might as well take his time to see his options.
PAT M and you are whatever you are.
YAWN!
104 out of what? 650??? sounds like he was on a pretty level playing field to me. 1 in 6???
For anyone who thinks that not only did he use in 03, but continued to 04, i would argue 04 was his worst season in baseball.
Maybe he realized the supplements he was taking made him test positive, and stopped taking them after????
i’d bet almost anything on the fact it isnt as simple as “I cheated!”
I am sick and tired of the coverage of the MLB steroid issue. Our economy is collapsing, jobs are being lost and there is so much turmoil in the world. Baseball is a beautiful game that allows us to forget about the world’s problems for awhile. Yet, the media chooses to obsess on the negative and salivates at the opportunity to tear down an individual. I guess it sells? I for one am tired of it!
Back to a topic we discussed a few days ago prior to this disappointing and sad fiasco….
I went out for brunch this morning and had the opportunity to re-think my rankings of my favorite breakfast foods. My rankings now are:
1) Belgian Waffles w/ Strawberries
2) Omelet (w/ Bacon, Sausage, Cheese, Black Olives)
3) Biscuits and Gravy
4) French Toast
5) Pancakes
Patrick come on over to the newest thread and enjoy posters who are just grateful for have had the opportunity to have Sam as our guide for the past week! Leave the complainers right here.
Almost… as self-important as quoting yourself twice.
Just sayin’.
“Here are the names of those who have NOT been linked to PEDs”
…yet.
Fixed that for you.
AFAIC the whole league has done steroids at one point or another. Guilty until proved innocent. I stopped caring about this witch hunt quite a while ago.
I somehow hope that now that A-Rod’s stats mean less that he will be less consumed by them and become a greater team player. His statistical legacy is tarnished, but if he carries the yanks to the WS through October his career will have new meaning.
Trisha said: “Wow, Justin Timberlake, Al Green and Keith Urban on the same stage singing Let’s Stay Together.
Just lovin it.”
Three multi millionaires teaching us all we need to know. Perhaps they could pay my heating bill that is equivalent to one of their maid’s room heating cost. Barak will get them for us. Yay Obama.