One day later
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Feb 08, 2009 
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So A-Rod is reportedly holed up in the Bahamas, trying to figure out what comes next. Spring training is, literally, days away, and there are all types of opinions flying around from fans, writers, players and officials about what the SI story on Rodriguez means.
I’ve scanned some of the comments, read all the emails I’ve gotten from you and other readers, and have a few thoughts:
— I believe this story is true. I understand some people may disagree with that, but to me, four sources is four sources and SI has done nothing to give me a reason to disbelieve them. As a journalist myself, I can safely say that it takes a lot of reporting to get a story like that one in print, and it’s something that isn’t done casually.
SI does not have to apologize for printing information it acquired – that is its job, its mission. If you are upset about the name being leaked, that’s absolutely understandable but the person to be upset with is the person who leaked it, not the person who learned of the information and then did exactly what their job tells them to do.
It’s also worth noting that those who claim SI shouldn’t have run the story without the entire list is unreasonable, too: Would it have been great for SI if they had uncovered all 104 names? You bet. That would have been an even better story. But not having the other 103 names doesn’t make discovering A-Rod’s test any less newsworthy. If a reporter found out that the Yankees were going to sign two pitchers but could only learn the identity of one of them, would the reporter print a story about the one name he knew? Of course he would. And you, as fans, would want him to. News is news and A-Rod’s failed test was news with or without the other names.
— There absolutely is a greater issue here. Several, in fact. Those who have talked about that element are correct – to say this is only a story about one player failing a steroid test is myopic. Discussions about how the testing procedure should be changed, as well as changes to the people who oversee it (Selig, Fehr, Orza, etc.) are absolutely necessary and should take place. Same with discussions about the leaks. But …
It’s also a little short-sighted to think that is what the discussion will be about today, tomorrow or even the next day. Fact is, the one player who was outed is universally recognized as the greatest player in the game and plays for the most popular team in the game. There are upsides to being Alex Rodriguez and to being the New York Yankees, and on many days those upsides are wonderful. There are also downsides. And one of those downsides is the amount of public attention and scrutiny.
While some may think fans (or columnists, for that matter) are overreacting in their comments about A-Rod, it’s hardly a stretch to think those people feel some level of betrayal from a star player who has now let them down. Yes, absolutely there are other issues worth examining within this story, but that doesn’t change the fact that people may feel misled and/or hurt by the revelation, and want to vent on it. Frankly, the level of emotion I’ve read – both in comments and other columns, including my own – is about what I would have expected. This is a BIG deal. It just is.
— It’s hard not to wonder how the Yankees feel about what they did with Rodriguez last winter. They were very nearly done with him and, if they’d kept their word about letting him go when he opted out, this would be someone else’s problem right now and for the next decade. But they didn’t. And so now, only a few months after their last steroid superstar (Giambi) finally left, they have another one to handle.
— Here are two things I’m not: A lawyer or a drug-test coordinator. So I can’t necessarily offer up any good advice or answers on a) why those tests weren’t destroyed to begin with; b) what the legality of someone leaking the results to a reporter is; or c) the best way for MLB to overhaul its testing. I can say that, in my mind at least, the biggest difference between leaking info like this and leaking info like the name of a CIA operative is that there is no national security concern with steroid test results. That seems like an obvious (and serious) difference, so it would not surprise me if they are not treated the same way.
In terms of testing, one thing I think would be interesting to see is if there were some kind of way to have a national PED testing agency that covered all professional sports leagues – i.e. if your athletes get paid to play, you’re subject to these codes and standards. That would at least make testing uniform. The problem, of course, is that the unions in these leagues have varying strengths. So, since you – as a Yankee fan – are likely in favor of free agency and no salary cap, that means you have to accept the fact that the MLBPA is going to do whatever it can to make testing and punishment for PEDs as minimally invasive as possible.
— In other news, it seems that Andruw Jones is likely to end up with the Texas Rangers on a minor-league deal. He earlier turned down a minor-league deal from the Yankees.
Sam well that takes care of that since I am in favor of a salary cap. Always on the right side of the law…
I wonder how long A-Rod will be booed for.. if he turns out another season like ’07, does he gain the love back?
and..
Is there any way we will ever know the other 103 on the list?
Sam – did you believe the LA Times when they falsely reported that Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens were named in Jason Grimsley’s affidavit?
BUT IT’S NOT FAIR PETE.
WAAAAAAAAAHHHH
IT’S NOT FAIR.
I’m still having a hard time that everyone accepts this as truth just because SI wrote the article. 4 unnamed sources are still unnamed sources.
Are we to believe that four separate people, all with access to sealed files, all decided to blow the whistle on ARod and nobody else?
Something’s wrong here, and this is coming from a fan who can’t stand ARod, and feels he probably did use PEDs at some point.
J-Boogie and Enoch:
Yes I did believe that report. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t. And I was incredibly disappointed when they had to retract it. I felt like a giant in the journalism business had royally screwed up.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I disbelieve every big story that comes along now. That would be incredibly reactionary. The standards of journalism are such that we, as journalists, can be misled sometimes. We do our best to make sure it never happens, but it does. And it did in that case. It doesn’t mean it’s happening here.
As I said at the top of the post, I believe this story. If you don’t, that’s certainly your prerogative. But I do. And so the rest of my comments are then based on the assumption that the story is true.
The Tabloids are having a field day. ARod is being smacked on the front and back pages. And tomorrow’s Sports Illustrated cover will be devastating.
Well, atleast the Bronx Zoo isn’t boring.
It was confidential information. The only was it was going to get out was through unnamed sources.
Alex most likely failed a steroids test.
I understand that the most salacious headline is A-ROID: Rodriguez Caught on the Juice! But I just can’t understand how the main story wouldn’t be 16% of MLB players came up positive. 104 of 650 players were caught, which means how many more were on down cycles, cheated the tests etc. If it was about the news you have to think that would be huge. I’m not asking Roberts to go demand the rest of the names (Though if the idea is that publishing names has a beneficial effect she should have.) and not telling her not to publish a story (it is absolutely her job to do so.) but for me the story is so much bigger than one guy. (No matter how phenomenal the player is.)
Your hypo about the Yankees signing two pitchers, say one of them being CC Sabathia, the other unnamed, cuts both ways. I would expect the fact that the Yankees nabbed 2 starters to get as much play as the fact that they got the biggest pitcher on the market. It does seem like the press has taken this as its opportunity to point out Alex’s foibles all at once though.
Keep the federal government out of my baseball ! Fire Orza, Impeach Selig or whatever you have to do to get him out, and maybe a third party private institution should come and be in charge of testing. There is no need for government oversight in everything you do, they’re not parents for big people.
Sam, at least you can be objective enough to acknowledge that discussing other aspects of this beyond Alex doesn’t make us delusional.
This is big I just want to see people SERIOUSLY care about PED in sports instead of pretend to be outraged when its baseball (I dont care if it is about stats and records).
You can not be serious about ending PEDs in sports until you’re just as outraged over Merriman and Stubblefield as you are over Bonds and Rodriguez.
I think A-Rod’s failure to comment on it might be fueling the belief that is true. When he was confronted two days prior to the report he could of easily said no, it’s not true, I’ve never used steroids.. but he sent Selena Roberts to the players’ union instead. Of course, this is no evidence, but if it weren’t true, why is he keeping his lips sealed?
If A-Rod is clean from 2004 until he retires and continues to put up numbers he should be in the HOF. If the writers don’t put Bonds or Clemens in Im sure they will try to keep A-Rod out which is why they should lose their voting privilege.
Collective thoughts of CC, AJ and Tex:
“Can we call a mulligan on our signings.”
Any guesses on when A-Rod comes out with some kind of statement?
He can’t wait much longer to say something can he?
Although knowing A-Rod, whatever he ends up saying is probably just gonna make it worse.
Sam – thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate your insight and have enjoyed your guest posts. For the record, I believe it also, though i have some doubts. I’d just prefer something more concrete than the word of 4 unnamed sources, which were given to a journalist who just so happens to have a book coming out in 2 months about Alex and everything he’s done to self-destruct. What I really want to hear is what A-Rod has to say. If he comes out and denies it, much like Pettitte and Clemens did, then what?
Will A-Rod ever be in the hall of fame?
In 2003 a total of 1198 players were tested for seroids as agreed to between the Union and MLB.
On the other hand, if the allegations that Orza tipped players is true, than the union loses tremendous power. Maybe then we can get this sport to be the way it should without the MLBPA picking and choosing as they please.
I’d be willing to bet that Alex Rodriguez is huddling with his agent, his new girlfriend (whoever she may be), and his PR guy right now in the Bahamas trying to come up with the best plan to head off the hordes of reporters who are going to descend on him in about a week.
I’ll bet when he flies back from his vacation he calls a press conference and abjectly apologizes to all his fans (all 10 of them), to the union, to MLB, to Bud Selig, to George Steinbrenner, to Brian Cashman, to Joe Girardi, to his teammates, to his former teammates, to his future teammates, to his ex-wife, to his kids, to his dog…
…for taking steroids.
I’ll bet he doesn’t apologize for lying, though.
Fran, thanks. I’ve been avoiding the media for the day, so I haven’t heard or read anything they’ve said. Honestly, right now, Alex making or not making the HOF is the last thing on my mind. I am extremely concerned for the Yankees. The A-Rod stuff isn’t going to make CC or AJ pitch worse than they would have; it’s not going to make Tex a bad hitter, nor is it going to change how well or poorly Matsui and Posada return from injury. My biggest concern is how this affects the team overall. I think they’ll be fine with Alex, but they are going to have to answer questions on a daily basis (and that can drive anyone crazy)…….unless the Yankees set ground rules with the media right from the very beginning of ST. This team still has a goal ahead of them for 2009: make the playoffs and put themselves in a position for a WS run. If Alex can’t put together even an average season by his standards (he just can’t be terrible), then the Yanks are in trouble.
I think A-Rod and the yankees, have a way through this. If A-Rodn can admit to some mistakes in the past but can also demonstrate he is clean now and has been clean for sometime, that will help. And what will help even more is for him to hit in the clutch, not homers but line drives to right field versus double plays. And do it in the big spots. Frankly if he hits 20 homers but has 120 RBIs every year and we can win a championship or two in the next four years, we can get beyond this trouble. From all accounts baseball has been trying to emerge from a “steriod culture” for the past 10-15 years. It looks like it was part of the job for a major leaguer, otherwise you would be left in the dust. So if A-Rod can reinvent himself into a clutch performer, stay clean…mistakes of the past can be overcome. As to his stats for baseball and his records,I could care less as a fan honestly. I want championships, clean and simple…no pun intended.
Sam:
Is it your understanding that only AROD was “outed”, or, was the enire list made available to Roberts, and she decided to zero in on AROD and AROD alone? If she has the whole list, she should have released the whole thing. If she doesn’t have the list, or didn’t actually see it, sources become a more important issue.
Did she , for example, call a source, and ask specifically about AROD and ignore the big picture, or fail to follow up? I’d sure like to know. Facts aside, there are some ethical questions involved. Four alleged sources implies a leak of epic proportions. Is the leak from inside MLB, the Feds, or a combination?
Sam–
I believe that there is such as national testing place I want to say USADA or something like that and in fact if I recall correctly there was a huge push to get them to be the overall testing agency for all sports but like you said the Unions fought very very hard against this. I would have to goback and read Selig’s testimony inCongress but I believe that MLB was for using them.
IN addition there have been problems with that agency as well I think most recently with Lance Armstrong and USADa leaking test results to te media.
“It’s also worth noting that those who claim SI shouldn’t have run the story without the entire list is unreasonable, too: Would it have been great for SI if they had uncovered all 104 names? You bet. That would have been an even better story. But not having the other 103 names doesn’t make discovering A-Rod’s test any less newsworthy.”
The thing is though Sam, they were only after one name at the outset. Roberts herself said that.
“I can say that, in my mind at least, the biggest difference between leaking info like this and leaking info like the name of a CIA operative is that there is no national security concern with steroid test results. That seems like an obvious (and serious) difference, so it would not not surprise me if they are not treated the same way.”
I get the distinction in so much as the different resulting consequences of the outcome – but as I see it both are still wrong and should be treated the same. If treating more lightly an action that is essentially the same (and still brings into question the integrity of the whole system) because only one person is affected and not the greater country well, that isn’t that just saying that as long as the ends justify the means, then its not as bad?
The perceived integrity of the system is just as tarnished by both actions, regardless of the resulting outcome of each action. Just my 2c – I realize not everything is black and white though.
“Although knowing A-Rod, whatever he ends up saying is probably just gonna make it worse.”
My biggest fear.
Rob NY – until MLB is willing to give up its status as the only organized trust to still have the antitrust exemption, you can bet that it will remain the mistress of the federal government. They can’t have it both ways.
I don’t mind the federal government messing in baseball at all only because it is so painfully obvious that MLB was more than willing to let players break the law and look the other way; and if it wasn’t for Jose Canseco, they would still be doing it! That and because they have an antitrust exemption.
I think that’s a fair entry Sam.
There are two parallel issues here. One is obviously Arod.
He flunked a steroid test and has to deal with the fallout from it. If you do it, there is a cost if you are outed.
The second issue is not as sexy but, has far deeper ramifications.
The complete and abysmal failure of the MLB Drug Testing Program and the complete breakdown of the sport’s leadership from the Commissioners Office to the Union.
In short, the entire industry is a mess. It stinks from the top on down.
How does 18.5 million dollar per year Commissioner Bud Selig get a pass as the leader of PED Central? How do some of your brethren in the media STILL say Bud has done a “great job as Commissioner”/
Really? How can anybody say that with a straight face?
Its EASY and its natural to kill the players when they get caught.
However, what about the leaderhip of the sport? Why not hold their feet to the fire with the same fury the outed players are held?
Couldn’t you make the argument the game’s leadership failed bigger than ANY player, Arod included, during in this entire sorry period in the game?
I think that’s what some of us are talking about the last two days.
Nobody is excusing Arod. He did it and he is going to have to man up and deal with the consequences.
However, the other issue, at least to me who tends to look at the big picture, is much more damaging to the game, IMO.
How are things going to change when the same failed leadership on both sides (owners and players) are still in charge?
Don’t want to trust the players? I completely understand that point of view.
I trust the leadership in the sport less because they have made a mockery of this entire process and show no signs of changing their incompetent ways.
Betsey
I have to disagree with you there. The Yankees’ players will not have to answers questions about this through the whole season unless something new comes out or Alex is asked to testify somewhere etc etc. It really all depends on how he deals with this in the next few days.
When Andy was named in the Mitchell report last year i dont think after he held his press conference and handled it the way i was the team had to answer any questions about it. It did not linger on the team in terms of press covering the issue or asking the players anything more about it.
It all comes back to how Alex handles it. Yes will everyone be asked about it in Spring Training for the first few days etc of course aswell they should be.
Groucho- Bob Costas interviewed her yesterday on the MLB Netowrk and she mentioned the only name she had was A-Rod’s. She was doing a “profile piece” on him for the magazine and that’s the only name she zeroed in on. To me, it sounded like she ignored the big picture, or wasn’t interested in it because it wouldn’t help further her book sales. What surprises me about that is that she didn’t even pass it off to any of her colleagues. I’d also like to know what directed her to these 4 sources and how her “profile piece” took her in the direction of finding people with knowledge of those who tested positive in 2003.
If Roberts did have access to all names and only published one – how does that float with the so called “journalistic mission”, Sam speaks of.
It comes across more like a witch-hunt.
Someone said it in the previous blog post (Bob I think, either original Bob or extra crispy) – there are two separate issues here. How the story broke and the alleged PED use of one player.
When someone complains about the method of this exposure – the cries resound – “Don’t shoot the messenger!”
What if someone stole the notes of a reporter and published “off the record” quotes. Would the message be “don’t shoot the messenger”? Hey the quotes were true – the public needs to know the truth. How they were obtained doesn’t matter.
It will be interesting in the next few days to hear Bud Selig. The commish needs to make a stand. The integrity of his sport is at stake.
“On the other hand, if the allegations that Orza tipped players is true, than the union loses tremendous power.”
***********************************************************
Personally, I think the union might have already lost power. If its true that they didn’t file the paperwork to have the tests destroyed (something you’d think would have been in their best interests to do the very day they were able to), then they let their members and in this case specifically A-Rod down badly.
I wonder how they are explaining that to him?
don’t mind the federal government messing in baseball at all
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Sorry, but the government getting involved usually only makes things worse. They have a track record of that.
I don’t want them anywhere near the game.
Groucho:
I certainly can’t speak to SI’s reporting or what took place that led to them getting the information for the story, but I have a very hard time believing that if they had the entire list, they would not have published it. That’s just basic reporting. If you’ve got news, break the news. Thus, I’d imagine they only learned A-Rod’s name. Perhaps those same sources will someday lead to more names. I don’t know. All we know right now is that they led to one name and it was A-Rod’s.
Gayle:
You’re absolutely right, though I think the USADA has purview over a variety of organizations, including amateur athletics. My idea would be to literally have one body for all professional sports leagues. And you’re right, MLB, if I recall, was in favor of that but it was the union – surprise – that was against it.
* organized sport, not organized trust
Bob, if the feds didn’t get involved we wouldn’t be having any steroids discussions whatsoever. If that’s fine with you, so be it. It isn’t fine with me.
SJ,
Your point of view is much like that of my older brother’s; he is one of those “but what does it mean on a larger scale?” kind of guys. I respect that everyone has a different viewpoint and think that’s valid.
There’s no doubt that everyone from the top on down feels the ramifications of this one. I don’t necessarily have a good answer on what comes next. It’s natural to say, “get rid of Selig, Fehr, Orza., etc.” but what do the people who replace them do? How do you overhaul a system that has clearly become rife with behavior that is both a) illegal (using steroids without prescription); and b) cheating the game?
“The complete and abysmal failure of the MLB Drug Testing Program and the complete breakdown of the sport’s leadership from the Commissioners Office to the Union.
In short, the entire industry is a mess. It stinks from the top on down.”
Absolutely yes.
“I trust the leadership in the sport less because they have made a mockery of this entire process and show no signs of changing their incompetent ways.”
Again, absolutely yes.
“How do you overhaul a system that has clearly become rife with behavior that is both a) illegal (using steroids without prescription); and b) cheating the game?”
How indeed.
I don’t know about anyone else but whenever I see Selig announce some policy change that gives the appearance of helping to police the game, all I think of is the fox guarding the hen house. The guy has zero credibility. I don’t see it going up any time soon.
I agee with SJ44.
There needs to be new leadership in the game. You can never get past this with the same boobs in charge who turned a blind eye while it was going on.
Congress can make this easy….
Demand the resignations of Selig, Fehr and Orza within the next 48 hours.
You also demand MLB turn over their entire drug testing program to the USADA, effectively immediately and they will administer the program until new leadership takes over.
They fail to act on these demands? Strip them of their antitrust exemption.
The owners and players don’t like it? Too damn bad.
No antitrust exemption changes everything with these owners. You want to get their attention and force the issue? That’s how you do it.
I would love a rod to come out and say “I took steroids in 03 because it was obvious numerous players were on it and I wanted to help make sure that we implemented a steroid policy. They definitely helped that year and I had a great year but have since stopped and had 2 more mvp years while being tested regularly and playing clean.” Regardless of what arod says it is terrible the way the gov handles the steroid problem in this country by chasing down professional baseball players that are being paid based on how they perform. Put this money into stopping hs athletes from starting steroids. They used the family of hs student who committed suicide in their congressional hearing for support but since dumped that message and instead are going out for names. Steroids are available at any gym across the country for jacka$$es that want to look good for summer yet the only people who get their reputation ruined are baseball players. Lets hear the names of Radomski’s dealer. Look at the NFL’s free pass.
Agree with SJ, it definitely is a fair piece Sam. You’ve done a real great job in Pete’s absence so kudos and thanks for that.
Trisha — Exemption or not I just watch the government screw up pretty much everything it touches and don’t want to see it wreck my favorite sport. Your point is well taken though.
Congress isn’t getting involved in this mess. However, you can make the argument that they helped create this mess…
Well, looks like Jose Canseco has been proven correct, yet again. Odd that it’s Jose Canseco who has become the sole voice of reason and truth in MLB.
Gayle, I hope you’re right. Again, as I’ve said before, the Yankees have to set ground rules for the media. Their A-Rod fixation should not, and can not, be allowed to affect the Yankees’ season.
i was against congress getting involved when they held hearings before, i dont want them getting involved now either.
I personally don’t care if he tested positive 6 years ago. I think we all know by now that baseball had a steroid problem, similar to the NFL’s problems 15-20 years ago. Heck, the only name that would shock me being on a positive test list would be Jeter. That’s it.
The bigger story really is how baseball, specifically Selig, screwed up cleaning up the game. He should have done what the NFL did when it first went after PEDs: deal with the present and future and forget about the past. Dwelling on what happened 5-10 years ago does no one any good, especially the game.
Also, if I am A-Rod and the MLBPA, I own that testing company by the end of the week. The whole reason that the survey testing was ok’d by the union was because tests were never going to be linked to players.
I would love a rod to come out and say “I took steroids in 03 because it was obvious numerous players were on it and I wanted to help make sure that we implemented a steroid policy. They definitely helped that year and I had a great year but have since stopped and had 2 more mvp years while being tested regularly and playing clean.”
——————————————
LOL
I didn’t even think of that. It would be so A-Rod to come out and say he failed the test on purpose for the good of the game.
Seriously though, wasn’t there a story about the entire White Sox team wanting to refuse to take the tests that year for that reason? They wanted to all fail by not taking it to make sure the number was over 5%.
Talking about Selig, here’s a humorous take on his bloated salary.
This from the It is High site: Top 10 baseball salaries 2008
1. Alex Rodriguez, Yankees, $28,000,000
2. Jason Giambi, Yankees, $23,428,571
3. Derek Jeter, Yankees, $21,600,000
4. Manny Ramirez, Redsocks, $18,929,923
5. Carlos Beltran, Mets, $18,622,809
6. Bud Selig, FAX machine operator, $18,350,000
7. Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners, $17,102,149
8. Johann Santana, Mets, $16,984,216
9. Torii Hunter, Angels, $16,500,000
10. Todd Helton, Rockies, $16,600,000
Bud’s administration has been a disaster but everyone’s making a ton of cash so it’s all golden I guess.
In the end it may turn out that the only group that can clean up baseball is the fans(with their wallets of course).
Please explain why a leaked test from 2003 indicates a need for the current testing system to be overhauled.
So, I’m reading and reading. Thank you, Sam, for appreciating that people’s feelings about this issue are very complicated.
I consider myself a fairly intelligent person. I have that side to me – the logical, practical side. That side understands that Selena Roberts was researching a book and came upon information about her subject that also happened to be big news in and of itself. She is a journalist and she is going to report that finding. Whether or not she likes or dislikes Alex, whether or not she has an axe to grind or a personal vendetta, the end result is there is a report out there that says Alex Rodriguez failed the MLB’s survey steroids test.
The more emotional side of me is upset that it was Alex, wants it to be not true, and hates that it’s yet another player for the Yankees, in spite of the fact that save for Pettitte, the other players did most of their doping while a part of another team (Clemens is an overlap, apparently). This side of me hates the drop-drop-drop scenario we have here, where names are leaked one at a time, as if to make sure there is always enough public outcry to warrant the further investigations.
Then there is another side, I don’t know what to call it – the questioning side – that wants to know more and dig deeper about the ENTIRE issue, which is bigger and more important, overall, than the fact that Alex Rodriguez, a cog in baseball’s wheel, got caught using PEDs.
There is the mother in me that wants to take Alex aside and shake him – but I guess in a way I’ve always wanted to do that – he’s sometimes such a jerk.
I could go on, but you get the picture. I don’t believe I am an apologist for ARod because I want to look beyond his involvement and into other aspects of this subject, both out of natural curiosity (I am human, after all) and a sense that justice is not being done here, nor is baseball really facing down it’s problem. The people in charge here think that they should be able to put window dressing and it will all be okay. It never works that way.
Also I am incensed and have been for a long time that the Players Union, even more so than MLB, although I’m also upset with them, because they did not do what a union is supposed to do, which is to protect their membership. They have let down both the “dirty” and the “clean” in the union. They have been negligent. And to put it bluntly, the union has gotten too big for its britches, to caught up in its own self-importance. And their main concern was the financial end of things, not the overall welfare of their membership.
Those who have been in charge during this dark period need to go. They have outlasted their effectiveness and if they haven’t lost the trust of their membership, then shame on those players who blindly follow because they have nice sized paychecks.
Where were the reporters when the steroid era was going on? Where was the expose of McGwire and Sosa in `98? What I find absolutely laughable is hearing reporters talk about steroids in baseball NOW.
Where were they when it was going on? As for Selena Roberts, who went to press with a ton of BS about the Duke Lax team, I’d be more comfortable if she could name a source. Also, the fact that she is writing a book about ARod, shows that he was her sole interest, rather than the larger problem we all knew existed at the time. This is a witch hunt and the very people who failed to bring us the story when the records were being broken, are the ones hunting (some of) the witches now.
It’s a disgrace.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
“That seems like an obvious (and serious) difference, so it would not not surprise me if they are not treated the same way.”
Seriously? As a journalist I’m surprised to see you use the word ‘not’ three times in one sentence.
Oh, and power – the Players Union was interested in keeping the balance of power in their favor.
Sam,
How do you do it? Painfully! lol
That’s the only way real change ever takes place with parties who have been rooted in power for decades.
The only thing MORE painful is the status quo.
Same people in charge promising to “do better”. No longer good enough. They had their chances. They blew it.
They have had enough “do better” and do-overs on this issue.
They all failed, they all need to go. Its that simple.
Who do you replace them with? Very good question.
The Union side? I’ll give you a couple of names:
1. Steve Greenberg, former counsel to the Players Association. Not only a bright guy but, a man who understands the current jackpot the Union (and by extension, its membership) are in and has the ability to work with the owners to forge partnerships.
2. Jim Quinn. One of the best labor lawyers in America. Formally was one of the heads of the NBAPA. You put Jim in that post, you immediately begin cleaning up the mess.
Two choices for Commissioner:
1. Andy McPhail. His family is one of baseball’s First Families. A man who has been at every level of the game.
A firm, yet balanced voice who won’t just be a shill for the owners. A man who truly would look at the big picture and make decisions that benefit the entire sport.
2. Chuck Hagel, former Senator of Nebraska. Another guy who has had to deal with people on polar opposite sides of issues. Another calm voice in a sea of noise.
How do they lance the boil?
Wtf is going on? Last year andy now arod who’s next? is this season over now???
if the si report is true, and if arod admits he used in 2003, nobody will believe that arod didnt use in 2004.
ozra tipped him about a test in late 2004, when he was on the yankees. not many people are going to believe ozra was tipping a clean arod about a drug test, especially not if he admits usage in 2003.
i think he has to come clean about everything or he should just shut up. even if he was using in 2204 and would have to take a 50game suspension i still think he should come clean. otherwise this is going to dog him his entire career.
it says alot about him that he’s hiding in the bahamas imo.
Thanks SJ I totaly agree with your 2:36 post.
A couple of questions.
Can he be suspended for any failed 2003 test by MLB?
Can he be prosecuted for failing a MLB steroid test in 2003?
If the answer is no, He’s going to keep saying no comment, speak to the union. Which is the right thing to do when you are in a union. There may be a time to come clean, I don’t think it’s now
If the players union wants to salvage any credability, they better have ARod’s back on this in a big way.
SJ,
Hagel is an idiot. If any politician is going to take over the game, it needs to be one with experience with it, like Jim Bunning.
Its clearly disappointing that this happened. Arod was supposed to clear the steroids records from the books, but I don’t really understand why his use is worse than others. I know he is the big star and playing for the Yankees, but it doesn’t really matter that they accomplished more with them, its just the use of them.
If the use of steroids was as common as it now appears, then any player not using them would be at a serious disadvantage. Salaries were ballooning, records were falling and they weren’t even testing for them. It seems only logical that a player would want to perform at their best, make more money and get their name in the books. A player like Arod seems to spare no effort in being the best. Why should it surprise people that he would try to use steroids to achieve that. In a weird way its some what admirable. We applaud guys who will sell their bodies out smashing into the wall, so why not guys who will risk health effects to be better players?
I agree that some national PED body is a good idea. I think that they need more accountability than has been shown by the labs so far, including the labs doing work for the IOC. When athletes can challenge the validity of the tests and confidentiality can be upheld, it would be a good idea. The case of Lance Armstrong is another good example of labs doing harm, or Landis not being able to challenge the validity of his test. The testing side of the issue still has a lot to improve upon. So far Arod hasn’t broken any rules, just like Bonds (except maybe perjury). It seems that the thing to do is move forward with better testing and hold people accountable (including the league), accept these players for what they are and try to keep it from happening again.
My question is, what happens the next time it seems clear that many players have an unnatural advantage? Does the league go to the players and ask for more confidential survey testing? Would the players not tell them where they can stick their tests? I would.
Scott,
“I would love a rod to come out and say “I took steroids in 03 because it was obvious numerous players were on it and I wanted to help make sure that we implemented a steroid policy”
Funny, I had the same thoughts last night.
“Bronx Jeers February 8th, 2009 at 12:49 am
ARod should just come out and tell the truth. That he wanted to fail the test because we was afraid MLB wouldn’t get the 5% quota it needed to install testing. He did it to save the game from itself. (insert your own emoticon)”
Coincidentally, my name is also Scott. All Scotts think alike?
The biggest joke of the Costas-Roberts interview is when this “journalist sits there with a straight face and says that they don’t take any pleasure in hurting, embarrasing or outing people. I’ll call BS on that. They revel in it. Look at the daily papers…not just the sports pages. Anything that stands in their way of a story to splash on the front page is what they live for…regardless of who they hurt….and, in too many instances, regardless of what the actual truts.
“So far Arod hasn’t broken any rules, just like Bonds (except maybe perjury).”
?????
Someone mentioned the salary cap earlier, and it is never going to happen. Why? because big market teams are going to insist that there be a salary floor and/or no more luxury tax, or at least a reduction in it. The smaller teams who are carrying zero payroll are not going to go for that.
Also, how is a salary cap going to increase parity? It isn’t like the Yankees and Red Sox are the only ones who win the WS every year.
if the si report is true, and arod admits he used in 2003, then nobody is going to believe he has been clean since.
specifically, if ozra tipped him about a drug test in 2004 (i dont buy that ozra tipped a clean arod about a test) then it will be generally accepted that he cheated after the failed test and cheated while being a yankee.
arods only chance imo is to come clean about everything, no matter what. if he admits he used in 2004, he will be subject to suspension and he has to own up and take it. it will hurt the yankees this year if this happens but in the long run this is the best course for arod and the yankees.
Green Beret7, I agree with you. And what really bothered me was that Roberts told Costas she was focused in on ARod and that was the only one she was looking for. It was, in my opinion, a witch hunt. Not to defend Alex if he did use PEDs, but I don’t like the way everybody has already convicted him without hearing his side of the story.
specifically, if ozra tipped him about a drug test in 2004 (i dont buy that ozra tipped a clean arod about a test) then it will be generally accepted that he cheated after the failed test and cheated while being a yankee.
——————————————-
He could also have tipped A-Rod off solely because he knew he had failed the test in 2003 and wanted to make sure he was good to go this time.
Not saying that he wasn’t still using in 2004, who knows, but I don’t think the tip necessarily means he was.
How the heck can he be suspended this season for something that happened 5 years ago???
My point was only that Arod tested positive before they were banned.
My point was only that Arod tested positive before they were banned.
—————————–
Nope. They were banned when he tested psoitive. There just was no penalty in place at that point.
Sam, a question.
I’ve not seen the answer to this anywhere, maybe you can clarify it, if you know. The 4 anonymous sources — do you think SI knows who they are, but can’t tell us for anonymity reasons? Are they independent of each other do you think?
And (not meaning to gloat in any way)… you know how you said Jeter would be the next big controversy the other day…? I think you may have underestimated Arod’s ability to make headlines
Thanks for your articles on this, it’s very interesting to read a journalist’s perspective. Both you and Pete do a great job of giving us an inside view.
Fran,
It can be both and most likely is.
She is on a witchhunt. Let’s face it, this stuff isn’t going to hurt her sales on the tell-all book on Arod coming out in May.
She also found out he tested positive.
Its kind of like OJ. The cops may have framed him at the crime scene but, he still killed two people.
I don’t have any doubt the story is true. There is a positive test.
There is NO WAY Time Warner lawyers are going to let her run with that story if there was even a smidgens chance it wasn’t true.
However she came into this information aside, there is no doubt the information she got was a positive drug test from 2003.
IMO, Arod would be making a HUGE mistake if/when he does speak, in denying the story.
If he does, the government will leak any and everything they have on him if he is not telling the truth.
When/if he does speak, the only thing that will help him is the unvarnished truth.
Anything less will make things worse, not better.
Even if he was tipped off in 2004, that’s not on Alex, it’s on Orza and Alex should not be penalized, unless it can be proved that Alex asked for the heads up, which would really be even more disturbing, and I would doubt it intensely.
At least this came out before the season started.
All 104 names should now be released. let’s have it all out, deal with it and be done with the issue.
Pray that Jeter is not on that list.
bob, while what you propose is plausible and i believe might actually be the case, nobody is going to believe it. if he says i used in 2003 but not in 2004 and still got tipped, nobody is going to believe him. his credibility is very likely permanently shot.
i dont buy for a second that he only used once (those who remember the discussion on pettitte last winter will remember that i was the one calliing his first story a lie until he admitted to multiple uses) i dont think anybody else is going to believe it either.
alex rodriguez doesn’t know his name is on the list. there was no procedure for telling players they tested positive.
what he knows is whether he could have tested positive.
if it’s possible he could have tested positive, he should just say so, say he’s sorry for mistakes he’s made, and that’ll be that.
if he fights it, it’ll be a black hole that’ll take him and the yankees down a long messy path.
SJ–
Chuck Hagel would be a great choice. Wasnt he involved in one of the sports teams as part ownership or I am confusing him ith Kohl (who was a senator and owner as well.)
No offense to whomever sugested Bunning but that is a complete joke and I dont want to go there on a sports blog..
In terms of the union what it will take is a group of well respected tentured players to really shake things up in terms of their leadership although I am not quite sure that they have a group that would bewilling to fight the good fight against Fehr and Orza. I used to think that Glavine could be thatguy but not sure he has the kind of power within the plaers that he used to have.. Moose also used to be a big guy in the union but again he isnot even in the game anymore. Who really are the player leaders right now they seem to keep their mouth shut and not really cross Fehr and Orza on anything.
If ere is to be a new type of baseball commissioner, and, as bad as I hated the man’s politics and personal beliefs, a person like Kennesaw Mountain Landis is what the baeball side of this needs…complete autonomy to dispense justice. Somebody that’ not beholden to the owners for his salary or threats to being fired. Salary and term determination would be shared equally by owners and the Union.
As far as the Union is concerned, get rid of Fehr and Orza and bring in somebody like a Bunning or somebody with a union/baseball background. It would be helpful to have a degree in business law, so the pickings will be slim.
the latest news on Arod, doesn’t change a thing, from my view.
I didn’t like Arod before. And i don’t like him now.
SJ44: I like you and value your input on this forum. I had noticed you were somewhat critical of the article by Sam Borden. However, this is my view (in 2 sentences): While agents may not really care if players used or are using steroids, fans do care. In contrast, fans don’t care whether Joe Girardi discloses injury information to the media.
It’s also worth noting that those who claim SI shouldn’t have run the story without the entire list is unreasonable, too: Would it have been great for SI if they had uncovered all 104 names? You bet. That would have been an even better story. But not having the other 103 names doesn’t make discovering A-Rod’s test any less newsworthy.
Yes, publishing more names does do something for arod – it takes the heat solely off his shoulders. If there was an equally big or even bigger name on that list, arod wouldnt be crucified by the media right now ie they would have someone else or multiple other people to write about. Its not that they didnt publish the names, it is why didnt they publish more names if they could have? IT makes selena come off as an arod hater and sounds like she has a personal vendetta against him between the book and only releasing a story about him. I hate this woman, I really do. And it doesnt have to be some government official that committed a crime, perhaps, the media bribed an official to release confidential information. Why would the official(s) be willing to release this private info to the media for no reason??
If ***there*** is to be a new type
Ham Fighters, I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that the tip doesn’t automatically mean he was still using.
I have no doubt this wasn’t a one time thing for him. There’s a whole program involved with this stuff.
I do however, think it is not unrealistic to think that he did stop once the testing program started in 2004. It could have been the wake up call he needed. As image cocnsious as he is, he may have said “I’m not risking it anymore.”
Pete could also be right in saying that he likely just moved on to something undetectable. We’ll never know for sure about him or any other player for that matter.
Randy–
TJ Quinnon ESPN last night said thatthe Union, the positive testing players and the teams were told who tested positive once the names and the codes were linked together. SO they know who is on that list, For Alex, MLBPA and MLB to say they dont know the names is a farce
MLB and the union can say they cannot coment on the names asthey are in court right now on this very issue but they certainly know who is on the list.
Pokey-
Jim Bunning is 78.
randy l
TJ Quinn on ESPN said the union notified the people who tested positive to let them know in 2004.
Great comments so far everyone. A few things:
1. Questions about “where were the journalists in 98 with Mac and Sosa?” are legit. I think everyone would admit they missed the boat on that one – fans, players, journalists. Sometimes you just don’t see the elephant in the room no matter how big it is. I was a sophomore in college at the time and remember loving the homers and the drama. I never imagined what it would mean to my eventual professional career.
2. It’s a very, very slippery slope on whether Congress should get involved with this. I readily admit that I vacillate on this question. Some people feel like there are way, way, way more important things for the government to be doing right now than dealing with baseball and it’s steroids problems. Others think it’s absolutely reasonable for government to be involved. In this case, I think it’s not necessarily a bad thing though I don’t know if it’d be as easy as SJ mentioned a numbers of posts back (though if wishing made it so!).
3. SI’s Jon Heyman wrote a very intersting piece today about Orza’s role in all this. Lots of good details, including the best potential explanation for why the tests still existed that I’ve heard. It’s at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1
Journalists with integrity (call that an oxymoron if you need the laugh) do not revel in hurting, outing or embarrassing people. The deal is to get the facts out there and let the people decide whether the subject of the article hasn’t hurt or embarrassed himself with his own behavior. Reporting the truth isn’t the same as creating the truth.
In political coverage, I tend to believe that there is a bias in reporting and that a counter bias sprang up to deal with that. That’s worked out to be a real shame. But in sports reporting, it’s still the Emperor’s New Clothes, calling a phony a phony, especially a $20 + mil per year guy (who has said all along that he never touched the stuff). There just happen to be more of those $20 mil a year guys on the Yankees. I’m not sure if the press are really targeting the Yankees or whether they just see a target rich environment that happen to all be wearing pinstripes.
If there is any self-satisfaction for the reporter breaking this story, it is in tearing down the carefully maintained veil of secrecy and fraud, and exposing the faker for what he is. Selena Roberts and I will never agree on everything, given her shrill noise on the Duke case. But on this one, I have to back her up.
While nothing is perfect, I’d rather have a free press, even with its excesses and biases, than a press that is scared or lazy and doesn’t adequately fill out the public record.
I have a question. What does this leak mean? Does it mean Arod can be punished by the Yanks or MLB? Or is it just an embarrassing situation that does not affect him on the field? Can he be suspended?
Two questions that I cannot answer myself.
(1) Why don’t/can’t A-Rod and “clean” superstars boycott the union until it agrees to divulge the other 103 positive tests? I’m assuming that there are “clean” superstars who have enough influence on the union. 104 is a lot, but even if you assume that there were cheating players who didn’t get caught in 2003, there are still handful of players left.
(2) How did they keep the tests? I mean, if it is supposed to be confidential, I would assume that half the people have the access to the database connecting sample numbers with the players, and the other half to the database connecting sample numbers to tests (just like McDonald’s French fries recipe). It is a bit hard to believe there can be 4 independent sources which can only tell about A-Rod.
As it is with Rodriguez, other than the word of one or two people, is there proof that Orza tipped players off? and, how is it assumed that Rodriguez was one of the players that were tipped off?
gb, you’re right setting up a guy like the set up landis, basically with carte blance to fix whatever he saw was wrong with the game, would likely be the best way to fix the situation.
that being said i’d put the chances of that happening at about .00025% (yes i meant 25 THOUSANTHS of one percent.
the owners are very aware that it took from 1919 until they fired faye vincent for the owners to recover true power over thier game. guys who paid hundreds of millions of dollars to own teams are never going to give that power back to an independant commissioner again. i wish i was wrong but i dont think i am.
im an unrepentant liberal, way to the left of the major parties so im not being a political hack when i propose condaleeza rice for that job were it really to be created.
Randy,
Exactly.
If I was advising Arod, here is what I would tell him. I am assuming he has no positive tests as Yankee with what I’m about to advise
Give the following statement:
“I, like a great deal of other players, got caught up in the PED culture that was taking place in and around 2003″. I used and I am extremely sorry for using”. No amount of remorse I can give is going to be enough to satisfy those I disappointed but, I am truly sorry for my actions and what it has done to my friends, family, the Yankees, who have nothing to do with this, and most importantly, the game”.
“I have never flunked a drug test as a Yankee. I have been tested (give the number of times he has been tested since 2004) and I’ve been clean everytime”.
“I have not used PED’s since I joined the Yankees in 2004″.
“I will NEVER use PED’s again. To prove my point, MLB can test me in and out of season as long as they want, store my blood if they want to, and everybody will see I am clean”.
“I also want to take out the bonus clauses for HR’s in my contract. I’m not worthy of such financial rewards”.
By doing the above (again, assuming he can and is not still using or has another positive PED test somewhere) he:
1. Takes responsibility.
2. Makes him the most tested athlete in baseball the next 9 years, assuring that he better remain clean.
3. Fines himself 30 million dollars and also does the right thing by the Yankees.
As far as stepping over MLB and the Union by overstepping the testing outlines, screw both of them. They sold him out by not destroying the provisional tests. He has to worry about himself right now.
If he does what I outline above, he survives this and actually shows the backbone many people have been looking for from him for years.
If he goes the deny, deny, or silent route? He’s torched forever.
Selig is just what the owners want.
A clueless, bumbling idiot who they can manipulate to do what they want.
Phil,
I know he’s old. I am just saying that the next commissioner needs to be someone who knows the game. As far as politicians go, Bunning is the only one.
SJ44, I agree that Alex needs to tell the whole truth. But even then I suspect there will be many in the media and fans that will still not believe there is more to the story. It seems that Alex can never win.
Okay Pete so why was only Arod’s name leaked out of 104? You telling me that Arod’s coded samples were the only one out of 104 sitting out there? Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Maybe he did and probably did do it, but to single him out first and not release other names is ludicrous.
Frankly, I know SI is a great magazine but this write stinks to high hell of being totally bias. I want to know one of two things – one, who is one of her four sources and are they being objective about this and two, where is the evidence? I want to see a name, a document, a failed test result, a list, anything that is actual proof of arods guilt or innocence.
It is clear this lady hates arod just by the fact that she is writing a book said to be about “his controversial path to self-destruction” so she clearly is not very objective for a reporter and it is also clear that this writer is known for jumping the gun without any real proof in front of her (the duke lacrosse stuff) so this doesnt exactly put selena in a very good light regardless of whether or not she is a good writer or works for a renowned magazine. The character, reputation and history of a source is questioned in court cases so it is certainly relevant to question selena’s history and motives in this situation. And she doesn’t exactly scream intelligent, objective, level-headed reporter to me.
That would be great SJ44, but if you really think he’s gonna say/do any of that you might be the next one who needs a drug test. lol
Don’t worry. I’ve hired Jack Bauer to find out who is behind the information leak.
I’ll have the full list in 24 hours.
gb, i only know that the tipping was in robert’s story and she also mentioined it in the costas interview yesterday. i only saw it once so im not 100% sure she confirmed what costas speculated that arod had to be one of the guys tipped by ozra. ill try to catch it again but she certainly didnt correct costas’s speculation if she didnt confirm it.
If Rudy Giuliani doesn’t run for governor in 2010, IMO, he’s the obvious choice for next MLB Commissioner.
gayle -
So the Yankees knew he tested postive, and probably gambled on it not becoming publicly known when they re-signed him, especially in light of his name not appearing in the Mitchell report?
And if MLB and the Union succeed in getting the other 103 names expunged or destroyed or whatever it is they do to get the “anonymity” back, the Alex genie is already out of the bottle. Well, that’s the part of the roll of the dice, I suppose when you go down that path, but it surely doesn’t seem “fair,” whatever fair is.
I would think that Alex and Scott Boras must be discussing all the prior cases that have come to light, how the various players handled the situation, what they said exactly, what the reaction was. Boras is a due diligence guy, right? He’ll help Alex figure out the best way for Alex to handle this, no doubt.
Here is the problem for the Yankees. They are a team that signs high profile, high production guys. It is really unfortunate, but those seem to be the guys most likely to be trying to get an edge. Do they stop signing these guys, or do they keep rolling the dice? Hey, who needs a salary cap – the Yankees will just keep signing the problem players and the teams that nurtured them get away with it, for the most part, and they get the Yankees’ money!
I told you, my mind is really twisting and turning all over this issue, for better or for worse. Sorry about that. My husband is tired of my obsession.
Ham Fighters
February 8th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
gb, you’re right setting up a guy like the set up landis, basically with carte blance to fix whatever he saw was wrong with the game, would likely be the best way to fix the situation.
————————————————————
That would depend on how badly the owners want to retain their anti-trust exemption.
“If a reporter found out that the Yankees were going to sign two pitchers but could only learn the identity of one of them, would the reporter print a story about the one name he knew? Of course he would.”
Sam,
Roberts apparently could have found out a few more names on the list but she made zero effort to get them. Once she had Alex, she was content to run with his name alone.
Condi would be good, but I am pretty sure she is a football person, not baseball.
sj thats a good start but i think hed have to answer any and all questions about it. he doesnt have to rat anybody but he needs to answer any questions. otherise it looks like some smart lawyer wrote something for him to read.
oh yeah some smart lawyer did write that for him…
I don’t see how the Yankees knew he tested positive in 2003. That information was not made available to the teams.
If the Union got the info, they were under no obligation to share it with the teams.
That’s where the reporting is a bit sketchy to me.
There may have been murmurs, as there were with a lot of players. However, I doubt the Yankees had/or had access to, his failed drug test from Texas.
A-rod: “the beach is beautiful”
Sam I Am: “im on the pot thinking about what i had for breakfast (pancakes w that stinky syrup from nj) and im just thinking about what a coincidinc it is that both were discovered at roughly the same time–a-rod’s anonymous 2003 steroid test and the source of the syrup smell thats been stinking up the city since 2003. I think – no, i believe – that must mean the syrup factory must have been making steroids too. Many of you have pointed out that this story is actually about much more than just a-rod. Well, now we have proof. It’s also about maple syrup. I feel personally duped. All this time i thought i was smelling syrupn, yum. Actually i was smelling syrup AND steroids. Yuck”
Ham Fighters
February 8th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
gb, i only know that the tipping was in robert’s story and she also mentioined it in the costas interview yesterday. i only saw it once so im not 100% sure she confirmed what costas speculated that arod had to be one of the guys tipped by ozra. ill try to catch it again but she certainly didnt correct costas’s speculation if she didnt confirm it.
————————————————————
believe that the original issue of tipping came up in the Mitchell “Report” andthe Union was dressed down about it, if true. I find it hard to believe that Congress/Mitchell didn’t demand Orz’s ouster if they thought that were true.
SJ
I’m all in but is that enough.
As I said to Randy earlier, does he have to answer the W’s- who, what, where, why and when.
That’s where it could get messy for him still being in the game or with the feds.
Imagine if you knew someone who was writing a book about your “controversial path to self destruction” and they called you to ask you about steroids … Didnt alex have every right to say no he didnt want to meet with this b&*((. I mean she does sound like arods number one hater to me. And selena took this to mean he was admitting his guilt by not agreeing to meet with her. I wonder if someone was writing a book about selena’s controversial path to self destruction or she would meet with them to divulge how she got ahold of this material most likely illegally. Very doubtful – this woman sounds like a moron to me but of course, that is just my opinion.
Does anybody remember the Seinfeld episode when Kramer knocked something into Rudy Giuliani’s blood sample for cholesterol, and the test was off the charts? Any chance that happened here?
Sam,
I find that “we all missed the elephant in the room” impossible to accept. In 1995, on a Sunday, the LA Times published a big article on Steroids in baseball. I believe they speculated that 40-60% of the players were on them at the time. And there were rumors about Jose Canseco and Pete Incaviglia back in the `80′s.
Reporters knew what was going on, at least some did, they just didn’t report on it. And that is why it is so laughable now that Selena Roberts and others are running this witch hunt. It’s disingenuos at best and the acts that are accompanying “discovery” six years after the fact are morally bankrupt and strictly being played for profit.
So, Sam, I’m not saying you in particular, but I am saying I don’t accept that reporters didn’t know it was going on when it was going on. And rather than reading a bunch of hacks deploring ARod for the next however long in the papers, I want to see what they have to say about their failure to tell the story when it was actually happening. Many of them did know.
25 hundred thousanths of one percent, i think…liberals never do well with math.
SJ44 -
I like your outline for what Alex needs to do/say. Fran may be right, that there are people who still won’t give him any slack, but that can’t be helped. But he can make most of the people out there a lot more comfortable with the whole situation and he certainly will make the Yankees a lot more comfortable during the next 9 years.
I think it’s obvious why ARod’s name was leaked – he’s the biggest name on that list. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Perhaps the people who leaked got wind of Roberts’ book and sought her out. Whatever. Alex’s name will turn heads.
YAWN….. steroids blah blah it happened six years ago blah blah blah it was legal back then blah blah this lady is just trying to make money for her book BLAH BLAH BLAH spare me
TJ Quinn didn’t say teams were told. He said players were told.
Makes you wonder if Orza may have “reminded” all the players on the list to behave in 2004 just in case.
Okay. So the Yankees likely knew nothing of Alex’s test results. And I guess even if they told teams, he was with the Rangers at the time of the testing.
I thought today how could this get worse for baseball and those who cover it –
Here is how. The anonymous report contains players who played in 2003. What would happen if that list of players was released and the name “Ricky Henderson” popped up?
Would he still get in the HOF? How would baseball handle that mess? What a fun induction ceremony that would be.
The writers could say they voted with the knowledge they had at the time – but it would be ugly.
The problem with going back 6 years to “name names” is that you don’t know what kind of dirt you may dig up.
What happens if Alex produces a valid prescription for the drugs?
murphydog
February 8th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
If Rudy Giuliani doesn’t run for governor in 2010, IMO, he’s the obvious choice for next MLB Commissioner.
————————————————————
Guiliani would certainly balance the issues with Watson’s seeming vendetta against NYY when it comes to penalties. I’m not impressed with Condalisa Rice in any way. If Bunning/ Guiliani turn it down, I’d be for Steve Largent. He may be a footballer, but, he’s no dummy. He has a background in sports and is familiar with sports labor issues.
Pat,
Clearly, he is going to have to get a heads up from the government that he isn’t the subject of any investigations or he can’t speak.
If he gets that, and makes the statement I’ve outlined above, he also has to answer questions from the media. He doesn’t have to “rat” on people. He doesn’t have to say where he got it, who he got it from, etc.
He does however (again, only my opinion) has to come clean about his time with the Yankees from 2004 to today.
Why is that relevent? Because they are his current employer.
He flunked a drug test while a member of the Texas Rangers yet, its “Alex Rodriquez of the NY Yankees flunked a drug test”.
It may be semantics to some but, it isn’t.
If he has never flunked a test with the Yankees (again, I don’t know if that’s the case. Just assuming so for the sake of this example), that needs to come out.
He can’t hang the Yankees out to dry.
Handled the right way, honestly and with real (not phony) remorse, Arod may end up being what he always wanted to be.
The biggest star in the game. Only this time, it would be for a reason bigger than stats. It would be for taking an aggressive stand to make the last 9 years of his career worth something and for being the poster child for trying to fix what is a very sorry chapter in the game’s history.
DT:
Wow. Great, great, great hypothetical on Henderson. For those who forgot, Henderson played part of the 2003 season with the Dodgers. That would be a circus.
Phil:
Fair point on the LA Times article. Is it possible that reporters knew about steroids? I suppose. But I have trouble believing that many of the same people I have worked with during my career that were also working then would have sat on such information if they had it cold. Maybe, but it’s hard for me to fathom. I truly believe everyone was just caught up in what was happening with Mac and Sosa. Should journalists have done a better job questioning it all? You bet. Absolutely they should have. But I don’t think they knew it and didn’t report it. At least I very much hope that wasn’t the case.
When I was in high school in 1987, our football coach brought in a friend of his to talk about steroids-Ron Yary, former NFL lineman. He told us he took steroids twice. He was told to do it in his rookie year, which was in the ’60′s, I believe. He took them again as prescribed to build up his leg muscles during rehab for knee surgery. He said he didn’t like what they did to his body and his mind, so he quit both times. The point of this is that steroids have been around for a LONG time, and for reporters, owners, and others to act like this just snuck up is disengenuous at best. Lying at its worst.
vrsce, your sexist attack of roberts only speaks about who you are, not who she is.
“Here is how. The anonymous report contains players who played in 2003. What would happen if that list of players was released and the name “Ricky Henderson” popped up”
I don’t expect Rickey Henderson ever used. He was a superstar before the steroid era (better then Barry Bonds IMO). His physique never changed. And his statistics never really fluctuated.
Sam,
In 1998 Mark McGwire was caught with a bottle of Andro in his locker. It would have taken a reporter perhaps as much as 5 minutes to find out that Andro was what juicers were using to maintain gains between cycles of steroids. But face it, all those reporters passed on the story. That’s why it’s a joke that they are deploring anything about the steroid era now. They let it go on.
Obviously, there wasn’t much you could do about it from college, Sam, the role of the press in this thing needs to be looked at.
Sam -
Thanks for the link to Heyman’s article.
If I’m a player, I’m demanding Orza’s head on a platter right about yesterday!
“What happens if Alex produces a valid prescription for the drugs?”
Then the world would owe him an apology. However, my guess is that if such a prescription existed, he would have produced it by now to put an end to this firestorm.
The post that SJ44 wrote is dead on in terms of what Alex has to say to make this go away quickly. Cop to it, offer to give up some of the money from his contract and beg for forgiveness. Otherwise, this is going to be the longest baseball season in history.
You should need more than anonymous sources to destroy a man.
Why would Roberts dig to get more names. That could deflect some of the attention off her target. Her meal ticket.
This was like the fox investigating the chicken coop.
Doesn’t matter if Alex only did it that year or for 2 years or however many years he did it, he’s tainted. Might as well go out and do steroids for the remainder of his career.
How’s this theory.
Alex signs the biggest contract in MLB history then realizes he’ll never live up to it. Hits 57 HR’s in 2002 and still doesn’t earn an MVP losing to Tejeda who was probably on steroids. Takes steroids in 2003 hoping to earn the MVP he seemingly can’t get playing straight.
Ironic since it’s the writers who vote for MVP.
I hope Alex blows the lid off this steroids story. Yeah he’s an idiot but there’s certainly no shortage of those.
vrsce,
I would expect nothing less than nasty from a person who tries to destroy peoples lives with her columns. One must ask themseleves- which is worse: taking roids a few times to improve baseball skills or actively seeking out information in order to ruin the reputation and lives of people that live better than you do? The former is really only hurting themselves while the latter is ruining the lives of others.
“Destroying arods life wont stop you from crying yourself to sleep at night!”
You can hate on Selena Roberts all you want. She does seem like a gold digger, etc.
However, Arod does a mighty fine job of messing his own life up. He is the one who took the juice and repeatedly lied about it. I suppose Selena Roberts had a gun to his head forcing him to take the roids?
I have a problem with these reporters not naming their source on who provided the name of a player(s) listed on a confidential test. Don’t you think that the union, MLB and the owners amd anyone else associated with professional basbeall should also focus on how Roberts came up with this info? Put Roberts on the firing line and ask or dig into how she came across this list. Saying she was doing a “piece” on A-Rod and it developed into this seems far fetched.
hamfighter,
That was not really a sexist comment. He is just attacking the woman for no good reason – the same thing that roberts herself seems to condone. He didnt generalize or say nething specifically derogotary about women as a whole. Just this idiot in particular.
If Arod did take them I have lost all respect of him.
He did not need to cheat and if he did he is like all the rest.. I know Arod is a child, publicity freak, etc. but Ialso thought he was a workout nut and the hardest working player with immense talent.
why no names of the other 104 players????
WHy only Arod?
IT is sad but the bottom line is many many many of the players took them more then we can ever imagine….
Dave
True enough.
Apparently the drugs he took were to speed recovery between workouts.
A very great many pro atheletes have been using performance enhancing drugs for decades. If it can be stopped, great. However all the users must be outed, not just a few.
In that case there would not be much of a story for that vile Roberts.
SJ–
Great thoughts on what Alex shoudl say however being as he i bottled up with Boros at the momnt do you really think thyat Boros would allow him to say such things, especially to give money back to the Yankees.
I think you may be in part right as I believe that Boros’ statement from last night to Karl Raveich may be a pre-curser to what Alex will say which I think is halfway in the right direction but does not go as far as you have suggested.
Also if Alex does in fact go pretty far on what happened in the past what ramification would there be with the players union?
I think A-Rod’s failure to comment on it might be fueling the belief that is true. When he was confronted two days prior to the report he could of easily said no, it’s not true, I’ve never used steroids.. but he sent Selena Roberts to the players’ union instead. Of course, this is no evidence, but if it weren’t true, why is he keeping his lips sealed?
Really? Who would believe him anyway? Reporters would turn everything he said around until it looked guilty. Remember when people told Clemens to defend himself. Good idea, look where that got him..
Someone really dirty and angry with the Yankees brought this to light.. it may very well be true.. but don’t think arod’s image alone is what the motive behind this was.
New stadium, new top talent, new revenue model .. there are a lot of hurt feelings out there right now. It might even be safe to say that that there is a lot of jealousy towards the yankees.
jake,
You are missing the point. Roberts was out to get arod from the start – she is writing a book about how he constantly messes up his life. She went out of her way to only publish a story about rods name to ensure that the hot lamps would be solely placed in his face. If that list of 100 was published or even a few more BIG names then arod would be sharing the heat with other guys. She was only out for arods blood trying to destroy arods life. If you cant see that, you are blind. And as a yankee fan, you should be pissed that media can be sooo biased and cruel in their reporting. To make sure that arod was crucified by the public and media is not exactly doing your part to make the world a better place. in FACT, i HAVE no idea who these ellgations are helping in the slightest. The real criminals behind this whole thing who decided to allow roids in baseball a decade ago and then, make sure they were all destroyed years later while getting rich in the process is selig. That bastard made more money off the backs of those he later threw under a subway car than most anyone in history.
Sam when people say Congress has much more important thing in which to involve themselves, what they fail to realize is that before Congress involves itself in anything, it relies on its investigators to do all of the legwork. It isn’t as if Congresspeople stop their work and begin to delve in earnest into nothing but the issue du jour. That’s why they have staff people and special agents and every other thing. What we end up seeing are the committee hearings, all one or two days of them. And then the Congressional committee makes a determination about what to do next.
MAJOR LEAGUE KUDOS TO CONGRESS for taking the bull by the horns. Some of the most compelling and heart-wrenching testimony I watched came from the father of Taylor Hooten, the 16-year-old who was told by his baseball coach he needed to get bigger to make the varsity and who committed suicide after taking steroids; and from the Garabaldis whose son (I forget his name but he was a draft pick of the Yankees) also committed suicide from taking steroids. If anyone remembers the testimony, their son seemed to be on his way to a successful major league career but felt he needed to be bigger and so went the steroid route. Then there was the report that steroid use by high school athletes was frighteningly widespread. Canseco’s book was a perfect catalyst for Congress to take hold of an issue that had a grip on the nation’s youth. There was actually no way they could ignore the issue and have any credibility at all based on what was going on with the high school kids!
The most depressing information that came out of those hearings was that MLB AND THE MEDIA was well aware of the use of PEDs and didn’t do anything of note to stop its useage, despite having had a policy since 1991 that made it against the rules to use steroids without a valid doctor’s prescription.
Thank God for the antitrust exemption. It turned out to be the silent sword of the heads of these idiots at the helm of baseball.
Oh yeah we need government regulation. And never to worry. There are enough special agents to cover every different contingency that calls for investigation. They do the work; Congresspeople show up at the hearings.
What happens if Alex produces a valid prescription for the drugs?
=================================
I doubt he will be able to produce one for Primobolan.
“If he does what I outline above, he survives this and actually shows the backbone many people have been looking for from him for years.
If he goes the deny, deny, or silent route? He’s torched forever.”
looking at this “chessboard” , that’s my conclusion too.
Also…
How can 4 sources be aware of a concealed report? were these 4 sources neighbors?
This isn’t the end by far, a lot of people are going to get hurt and lose their jobs. Some might find themselves in court.
Arod? Well, he will be arod.. loved by some, hated by some… doesn’t change much there.
DT, you example of Henderson is great and also shows why the Hall of Fame is very flawed.
They should changed the Hall of Fame criteria to something like top 10 greatest players of a decade or era This way, you would not have to compare apples (non-steroid era players) with oranges (steriod era players/juiced up ball era players). If you grouped players in decades or era’s, then it really wouldn’t matter who took steroids and who didn’t. Its quite obvious that there are people who are great players and not so great players taking steroids (Jason Giambi v Jeremy Giambi for example). If you put A-Rod in the Hall of Fame as the best baseball player of his era or decade, who cares what he did, since so many others did it, but he just did it better.
At this point, I really can care less who has done steroids. I think people are very naive to believe that A-Rod didn’t take steroids. Approximately 60% of my Division III baseball team took some form of performance enhancing drug and every player was able to beat drug testing. If a Division III baseball team had so much drug use, I would gather that a Division I team or MLB team would have a far higher percentage of use since the competition is so much greater for a roster spot. Likewise, if drug tests can be circumvented by college kids who are living off of side job salaries, I am sure that most major league ballplayers find ways to circumvent testing positive. It’s really not that hard, people circumvent even Olympic testing.
If its true that approximately 100 of 700 MLB players tested positive that year, your only talking 15% of baseball. I can’t think of one interview in the past 5 years where a player pegged steroid use at <20% of baseball. I tend to agree with Canseco and others that steriod use in the major leagues is closer to 80 or 90%.
I hate conspiracy theories but I’ve turned into a theorist!
I keep getting the feeling that this is somehow an attempt to break the union given the current economic climate/salaries/no new CBA until 2011.
I found it telling MLBs response included the wording “breach of agreement”.
Sooner or later this was going to come to light. It could have been Quinn, the Game of Shadows guys, Olney, or anybody who covers this side of the “game”. Roberts and Epstein (the Fredrick Engels of this story) are the ones who got it first.
From Sam Borden:
“…one thing I think would be interesting to see is if there were some kind of way to have a national PED testing agency that covered all professional sports leagues – i.e. if your athletes get paid to play, you’re subject to these codes and standards. That would at least make testing uniform….”
=========================
Thank you. Every sports fan should support this…MBL, NBA, NHL, MLS – and even the big, slobbering, sacred cow the NFL.
Don’t forget to remind everone on this huge differential of accountability on this topic; and how Baseball is held to such high standards compared to the rest !
Great piece by Joe Posnanski.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
geea …MLB
1. February 7, 2009- Selena Roberts from SI releases a report that Arod failed an anonymous 2003 drug. She cites 4 unnamed sources
2.February 8, 2009- Sports Illustrated releases a report according to 3 unnamed major league players that Arod in 2004 was being tipped off by Gene Orza the player’s union chief operating officer.
Sam,
That’s 7 unnamed sources Sports Illustrated put out there in 2 days not 4.
“TJ Quinn on ESPN said the union notified the people who tested positive to let them know in 2004.”
pat-
that doesn’t make sense to me. they had numbers for the purpose on anonymity . the way i understand it is the first time the numbers were put together with names was when novitsky raided the two places that had the separate lists.
but i don’t haven’t seen a written report that explains the idea behind the two lists.
the truth is i used steroids for several years up until 2003. with many players using, i had to play on a level field. once mbl became serious i stopped using from 2004 on. i did lie to all of you in order to protect myself, my family and my reputation. i’m sorry for that. it just seemed easier than coming clean i’ve been clean now for several years and i feel good about that. i’d like to put this all behind me. thank you.
“What happens if Alex produces a valid prescription for the drugs?”
Nah, that’s more along the lines of something Clemens would have miraculously found in his quiver. Either that or he would have said that he misremembered Deb telling him that one of his doctors (whose name totally escapes him now) called in a prescription and he didn’t realize that it was steroids when he took it, he can’t remember what drug store they got it at since they moved around so much it might have even been a drugstore in one of the road towns, and since the prescription was called in there was nothing he had in writing. And then Deb would swear to it.
Tom
It came out because the Feds leaked it.
Do you think that it is a coincidence that this was leaked one day after the Judge in the Bonds case said she may not allow heresay evidence about Bonds alleged use.
That damaged the Fed’s case, so they leaked this.
Pure scum.
How about that one Ham Fighters? You going to stand up for the Feds as well?
STOPPING PLAYERS FOR TAKING PEDS WILL NEVER BE STOPPED!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!
They continue to invent completely undetectable drugs while paying sports stars more money than god to play the game. Of course, the star athlete has the money and the drug dealer has the completely undetectable product that cannot and probably will never be able to be tested for successfully as they continue to develop more and better drugs faster than they can develop tests for these drugs. Its LAUGHABLE when people think arod should have his life ripped out from under him – there were thousands upon thousands of players using in the last 20 years. Most of them remain rich and quietly living out their days.
They will NEVER all be caught. That is why this thing has turned into a sham, a poorly run witch hunt in which the government is spending millions of dollars to improve the lives of not a single, solitary person. This whole thing is a joke, a farce. And it is ridiculous to say they should all be caught – that would take decades and millions upon millions of dollars and man hours.
Thas our government doing something completely irrelevant and using our tax dollars for something that helps none of us. This issue should be done – put to bed!! It happened, it sucks, its over. No more investigations or reports. It is not fair to the player who gets ousted when there are 20 more sitting right next to him that people still see as clean who never were. This is really a travesty – a biased and hippocritical waste of time. I hope roberts is wrong and burns at the stake for this. She really is an evil woman.
Sam
I have an idea for an article. Look up all the ballplayers who applied for an ADhD exemption.
“Among adults, the rate of diagnosis is between 1 percent and 3.5 percent. But among pro baseball players, the disease seems epidemic. The league has just announced that the number of “therapeutic use” exemptions based on ADHD increased again last year from 103 to 106. That means 8 percent of major-league players have ADHD—twice the rate among children and three to eight times the rate among adults.”
Out of the 106, Find one who is A) probably faking it B) a Red Sox player you really dont like. Then sell a lot of newspapers.
Sam, I understand the need to stick behind fellow reporters, but i think it is a little crazy to sit there and say an article cannot be printed without valid evidence. This woman ran many stories about the Duke case, and there was equally as little evidence.
Sure, Alex may have tested positive for something.
Perhaps it was a drug that was not believed to be a steroid and he stopped when he tessted positive. It could have been that bodybuilder drug to maintain muscle in the offseason.
I feel pretty confident when i say i dont think alex is sitting in a chair injecting himself with drugs.
And as for the former rangers conditioning coach talking about alex’s lack of gym dedication???
We have heard nothing in the last 10 years other than how obsessed alex is with working out and how he is the hardest worker anyone has ever seen.
this guy wants his 5 minutes away from obscurity and was more than willing to offer his “damning evidence” as espn called it last night. FYI (an opinion is NOT damning evidence).
“Also if Alex does in fact go pretty far on what happened in the past what ramification would there be with the players union?”
Why would he owe the union any loyalty though? Seems to me they failed all their members completely.
I am also tempted to throw up my hands and say I don’t care who did it, how much they did and so on; but at this point, baseball is getting dangerously close to sports like cycling and track and field. Sports fans look at those two sports and assume that everybody in them is dirty because you have to be to compete. I, for one, don’t want baseball turning into that, although maybe it has already. I would love to see baseball again be a sport where normal looking guys are competing. It makes you think that maybe you could have made it too, or something like that. Golf may be the only sport left that has that normal guy feel to it. God forbid that Tiger Woods ever did anything with PEDs.
And as for the former rangers conditioning coach talking about alex’s lack of gym dedication???
We have heard nothing in the last 10 years other than how obsessed alex is with working out and how he is the hardest worker anyone has ever seen.
this guy wants his 5 minutes away from obscurity and was more than willing to offer his “damning evidence’’ as espn called it last night. FYI (an opinion is NOT damning evidence).
————————-
I agree. That was absolutely ridiculous.
The odd thing is these tests where held private for 6 years. How did it all of a sudden get out? You would think that the person who found the information knew for the last 6 years where the list was to the names of the players. It must of been a real big person and not a nobody to get there hands on it. Roberts should have to be brought to court to tell who her sources are. She shouldn’t get into trouble for releasing the info but where she got the info should be important. For those people to get in trouble. Whoever it is gave away part of a sealed legal document/case those “people” should be in trouble for giving that info out. She is obviously scum but that is besides the point.
I think Cashman should quickly sign Manny, Juan Cruz and Adam Dunn, maybe as quickly as tonight. By doing this we can all forget this whole A-rod steroid issue and get back to the expected ST questions about A-rod and Madonna or Torre’s book and will Manny cut his hair and what to do with Nady/Swisher now that we have 4 RF’s etc…
Vrsce-
The leak of this information was illegal. Plus, it may have violated Alex’s 4th amendment rights. You are right when you call the leakers “pure scum” and it will be interesting to see if Roberts and Epstein are foreced by a judge to to release their names or go to jail-like what happened to The Game of Shadows authors.
Everything begins with the baseball player deciding to use steroids.
Let us remember that.
The enablers are not as guilty, nor more guilty than the player who makes the choice.
I wonder if one of the unnamed sources could be Verducci? How’s this for a conspiracy theory? Torre and Verducci had this waiting in the wings in case Torre’s attempt to discredit Arod backfired – which it did.
Just a thought.
CaptainsCorner,
They got out because some POS in the federal government decided to become a leaker instead of a public servant.
I wonder if one of the unnamed sources could be Verducci? How’s this for a conspiracy theory? Torre and Verducci had this waiting in the wings in case Torre’s attempt to discredit Arod backfired – which it did.
Just a thought.
—————–
If Verducci had it, he would have used it himself.
And say what you want about Torre, I would never in a million years believe he would a party to soemthing like that.
Tarheel–
Forget about it being or going after a Red Sox player named it really cant and should not be about that. HOWEVER there is a story to be had about the ADHD exemptions that MLB allows. This is another example of how flawed the program is in MLB.
I dont know the persons name but the only player that I recall really having an issue that required this drug was a player on the Atlanta Braves who literally could not play without it and had been tested by a few doctors.
It seems to be there are few too many doctors who are willing to prescribe these drugs and say they are needed and it seems strange to me that they year in which greenies were banned from the game the percentage of ADHD exemptions went up so high
“The leak of this information was illegal. Plus, it may have violated Alex’s 4th amendment rights. You are right when you call the leakers “pure scum” and it will be interesting to see if Roberts and Epstein are foreced by a judge to to release their names or go to jail-like what happened to The Game of Shadows authors.”
Tom, I definitely embrace that side of the issue also. I don’t feel any sense of exhiliration when the media has “scored one” by publishing protected information. Not at all. I would love to see Selena Roberts do jail time. Let her protect her sources (if they acutally exist) for the next 18 months, the way the Balco reporters were on their way to doing.
trisha – NY Yankees, 2009 World Champions
Can you spell Novitsky?
Gonna be a bit difficult – but survival mechanism for Purist Yank fans might be to avoid all Arod articles online and otherwise.
Screw him. He’s a drama queen – Yanks should have let him walk when they had their chance.
Still reading Verducci’s book – it’s a good read – not as negative-blasted as the media jumped upon prior to ‘them’ reading it. Kind of skimmed over the steroids section when, lo and behold, we’ve got another ‘scandal.’
Thank God Spring Training is around the corner?
“If Verducci had it, he would have used it himself.”
Absolutely not. It would have made the “third party trashing” of Arod look even more suspect than it does!
“And say what you want about Torre, I would never in a million years believe he would a party to soemthing like that.”
The guy has the loyalty of an alleycat. Most people were flabbergasted that he would be party to throwing players under the bus and divulging player confidences.
That said, it was just a creative idea. I have no more proof that there is any truth to it than anyone else has that there isn’t.
Mad Men
That Gammons comment may be construed as sexist by the resident officer for political correctness.
trisha -
We’re all overthinking this – me included! Conspiracy theories gone wild at Lohud blog!
The article by Joe Posnanski broke my heart. Really did. He did not have to do this. What drives people to cross over the line? Specifically, what drove Alex? He seemingly had it all.
Ham Fighters
February 8th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
vrsce, your sexist attack of roberts only speaks about who you are, not who she is.
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Wow. Agreed. I guess they let all kinds in here.
“Can you spell Novitsky?”
N-o-v-i-t-s-k-y?
If I spelled it otherwise, it was a function of flying fingers.
Sam
I have been a baseball fan for over 45yrs. When Sosa and McGwire were hitting home runs I knew they were’nt doing it clean. No proof just from observing the game. I find it hard to believe that writers that have followed the game for that amount of time or more did’nt at least suspect if not know something was going on.
Toni:
Alex was at the University of Miami gym (which is in Miami) on Thursday. He went to the Bahamas either that night or the next morning. This is what Scott Boras said. He is Alex’s agent. The Yankees were told the same thing.
Meanwhile, please remember:
Posting a bunch of links gets your post caught in the spam filter. So try and avoid that. If it does get stuck, give me a chance to approve it. Posting the same 4 links 10 times doesn’t fix it.
You also can’t use obscene words in a post. No, not even when Alex tests positive for steroids.
You also can’t personally attack somebody. If you are some sort of sociopath and feel the need to attack somebody personally because you’re upset about baseball, there are plenty of other blogs out there for you. This blog has normal folks who like to talk about baseball and disagree in a respectful fashion.
Posting stupid insults really doesn’t add to the proceedings. If you aren’t capable of reasonable discourse, don’t post. There is generally a low tolerance for stupidity here.
Thanks.
Doreen I didn’t see the Ponanski article. Should I read it?
Link please…
bodhisattva
Your Zen like patience has finally been rewarded. Perhaps you can now ascend to rodent from your current worm’s eye venue.
Before or after steriods ???
You be the judge…
http://weblogs.newsday.com/spo.....sther.html
Mad Men
February 8th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
I think Cashman should quickly sign Manny, Juan Cruz and Adam Dunn, maybe as quickly as tonight. By doing this we can all forget this whole A-rod steroid issue and get back to the expected ST questions about A-rod and Madonna or Torre’s book and will Manny cut his hair and what to do with Nady/Swisher now that we have 4 RF’s etc…
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Humor notwithstanding, the Yankees could use Ramirez in light of the news.
were the two lists ever matched up before federal agent novitsky did it?
if so when, and by who?
my understanding so far is he’s the one who did it.
if that understanding is wrong, i don’t have a problem with that, but i’d like to see evidence that someone else had a matched up list earlier.
if novitsky knew the lists were already matched up somewhere, why didn’t he just raid that place?
we’re talking about a list that we really don’t seem to understand very well. as i said, my understanding is that novitsky was the first one to put those two list together.
if that assumption is true, it’s obvious where the leaks come from.
the reason novitsky is important is if he’s behind this arod is toast.
i don’t think selena roberts is worth thinking about. i think it’s all about novitsky who does have the list.
Question- What is taking the Yankees so long to release a statement on this? Are they in contract with lawyers regarding how to respond?
Trisha -
Here’s the link. Bob (the Original) had posted the link earlier in this thread.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Don’t you think the Yankees should probably stay away from Manny? I mean I would like to think that some other reporter is digging for names. Why sign him, if there is even a slim possibility of him being on the list.
Why would the Yankees have to respond?
They were not his employer in the time in question. We already heard the Rangers say they dont know anything about this.
Ham Fighters
Obviously you do not remember the Duke case. Ms. Roberts was bent on destroying young men then as well, with fabricated evidence.Do not let your gender bias cloud any judgement you may have.Her life destroying viciousness merits no comment from you. Yet you are up in arms over the comment “Frumpy”. Pathetic.Unless it was the donut comment that upset you? But that was a strike on her personality and can not be termed sexist.
Gayle.
I agree. The point I was trying to make (badly) was to single out one person. Preferably a High Profile one.
I guess taking ritalin is ok. Even if you dont really need it. Maybe it’s not cheating enough.
The Feds only had warrants for the test results of the “Balco Ten” that they took the whole list, and if it is shown they leaked ARod’s name, then they are screwed because they will have violated his 4th ammendment rights and left the government open to a rather large lawsuit.
I know it’s difficult for us, but I think this is a situation where you need to dot the i’s and cross the t’s before making any statements, whether you’re the Yankees or Rodriguez.
Because Alex is a current player. Thats why.
Randy
That Novitsky is a piece of work. Except for the court of public perception, Please explain how Arod is toast?
The Yankees statement isn’t going to be anything different then it was when this happened with Pettitte. “We support him”. What else are they supposed to say?! Obviously first they need to hear from Arod. Who knows if he has even spoken to the Yankees yet or when that will take place.
Doreen that actually made me cry. The one thing Alex Rodriguez never had was the adulation that Jeter had. Maybe he used steroids to propel himself to unchartered heights in the hopes that he would get the love that was so easily given to Jeter. Alex isn’t so uncomplicated that it isn’t a possibility.
The thing that hurts the most is when you hear scouts and the rest say that he just didn’t have to do that because he was so naturally talented.
How very very sad the whole thing is. Posnanski is right. Alex always had it all – but for some reason he just never knew it.
What a mess….The only thing that MLB did right when the PED scandal hit the front pages was that they implemented a good drug testing policy in the minor leagues…Then the bs with the union and the commish’s office played soft toss and polished a nice policy and figured all the heat was over…Then of course Balco blew up, then Mitchell, then Celmens and now A-Rod as nobody was mindinf the store…..Just get the Olymipic testing people to come in and clean the crap up once and for all…The public’s preception as well as Congress’s needs to be assured that this era has come to a conclusion….SJ44,you should fax that script over to Borars’s office….
The Yankees have Arod, had Giambi, tried to sign Andruw Jones to a minor league deal, and now we are back to the Manny talk.
Maybe the Yanks are trying to sign as many of the top 100 as possible! I mean top 104.
BTW, Andruw Jones turned down the Yanks minor league offer to sign a minor league deal with the Rangers. (MLB.com)
What the heck is wrong with some of you? Because a woman wrote this story you think it’s OK to write about her looks and make stupid comments? Do you not live in society?
Either have some class or do not post here. I am not going to stand for people acting like morons and infecting this place with their lack of common decency.
they should just let arod live ….they are hating…even if its a big story it is still unfair if hes the only one getting called out and the other 103 players are left of the hook…I think they just want to mess up the yankees season
I kind of disagree. Is this a serious issue? Yes. But I think we all know that some people took these performance enhancing drugs. Baseball is well on its way on addressing it. I find “outing” each person as the media just trying to grab attention. If baseball had yet to do anything, then this would be news. Yes, this period of baseball will always be looked at with this issue in the back of our minds. However, it’s being addressed and let’s all just move on.
“Alex isn’t so uncomplicated that it isn’t a possibility”
Trisha,
You have had some great posts and points on the Arod deal the last couple of days, some I have agreed with, some not.
But that sentence above is making my head hurt trying to untangle it!
Okay, I have to chime in about that “woman”.
There are some acting like she did this because she’s a woman obsessed with bringing down A-rod. You think a guy would sit on this story? No journalist would sit on this story. Can’t see it.
She did a good job getting the story. If it was a guy, there would be hi-fives all-around. Pats on the butt, too.
Too bad Alex tested positive. If he didn’t, there wouldn’t be a problem.
Sam:
You may be right in that the reporter, Roberts, had every right to go with this story even though she only had the one name, not the other 103. Yes, that’s her role as a journalist.
However, what you do NOT address with that statement is this: how does she know that she wasn’t being used and manipulated by whoever leaked this news to her? Clearly they had access to the list – I find it hard to be believe they only saw one name, Alex’s – and just as clearly they chose to only give her A-Rod’s name.
So isn’t it also a journalist’s responsibility to make sure before they go to print with a story that they aren’t being manipulated to serve someone else’s agenda? As I recall, two reporters named Woodward and Bernstein went to great lengths not only to confirm their information but to make sure they weren’t being used by their source.
And P.S.: Even if she did everything right, I still believe that this story cannot be separated from her own interests as they pertain to her upcoming A-Rod bio.
Isnt this Selena Roberts the same lady who FALSELY trashed the INNOCENT Duke Lacrosse Kids in the Times?
Yeah She is real credible…I want to see who her sources are, and what other proof she has other than hearsay before I make my judgment.
How do we know that these ” 4 anonymous sources” actually have a scoop in on it, what if they are making it up?
Honestly I have no idea who to believe, but I want more evidence and frankly we dont have enough.
can Arod get suspended by MLB or the Yankees from this? Is this something that could affect him on the field?
can Arod get suspended by MLB or the Yankees from this? Is this something that could affect him on the field?
“That Novitsky is a piece of work. Except for the court of public perception, Please explain how Arod is toast?”
if arod lies, he’s toast. novitsky eventually gets everyone he goes after.
The Yankees stance should be that Arod did NOT take anything while a member of the Yankees and thus had no knowledge of his past actions. They can also say they are disappointed in the report and will talk with Arod to clarify the content of the report.
What Arod did is wrong and he’ll have to live with the ridicule he’s going to get. But really, most baseball fans hate him anyway so it isn’t as though he is losing a fanbase, he is just gaining a new nickname.
it looks like she is out to destroy him
http://njfrogman.blogspot.com/.....ts-to.html
I’d like to see what proof she has, and if she cannot do a good job of proving this ( anonymous sources arent going to cut it, Alex could and should sue her
http://njfrogman.blogspot.com/.....ts-to.html
This woman is……..I can’t even type the word.
Pete, are you getting miffed that the barbs and attacks are on Ms. Roberts, or perhaps you feel compelled to defend your proffession as possibly you are interpeting these attacks on you indirectly…Not being fond of # 13 may play into it even in a slight way….He got caught it appears, he already has his 250 million from Hicks, so why Alex….Those years in Texas will haunt him forever…Maybe he realized he had to get away from Arlington, so to his credit if this was to be true, heforced the trade out of Texas….
I hope the public will react the way they did with Joe’s book and think that this crosses the line. This is, if true, the most repulsive thing I’ve seen in a long time. I’m sickened by this.
“There are some acting like she did this because she’s a woman obsessed with bringing down A-rod. You think a guy would sit on this story? No journalist would sit on this story. Can’t see it.”
No one would sit on it. I don’t think that’s what being argued that she should have done when she’s being mentioned, at least by me. She didn’t leak it – she was the beneficiary of it. That’s the extent of her involvement.
I contend though, that the fact she is writing a book on him and has shown in the past a perception that she has vendettas on certain issues, made her the most obvious recipient to have this leaked to. That’s all.
“But that sentence above is making my head hurt trying to untangle it!”
Yeah it was kind of a convoluted sentence! Let me try it again.
“Alex isn’t so uncomplicated that it isn’t a possibility”
Alex is a complex dude, so I wouldn’t be surprised if his desire to be loved like Jeter caused him to try steroids.
Kevin Brown
4 sources is twice as much confirmation as most stories require.
ESPN confirmed the report with their own sources. Whether those sources are the same is unknown.
You know why MLB was able to enforce such s strong PED policy in the minor leagues?? Because minor league players are not protected by the union. MLB could act unilaterally didnt have to deal with anyone.
Tarheel I totally got your point and totally agree withyou
For those questioning the list who has the list how the list got put together etc. Here is the link of TJ Quinn on ESPN News explaining.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?.....id=2521705
Betsy, if she crosses that line, Alex will hopefully arm himself with the best defamation lawyer in the country and go after her.
It’s the malice standard again, and this time it would be under the category of “reckless disregard for the truth.”
Mr. November and Betsy -
My jaw dropped. What did he do to her? This is outside of what’s going on now, because she didn’t just start this book yesterday.
She is out to ruin him for sure.
Sam, a very good follow-up post; excellent stuff. You’re right in saying that there are differences between outing a player who failed a drug test and outing a CIA operative (undercover as understood). However, it is ironic that you chose this since, in baseball, attorney Tony Ellerman was convicted and sentenced to jail for allowing reporter Mark Fainaru-Wada to review players’ grand jury testimony. On the other hand, “Scooter” Libby was sent to jail not for releasing the name of Valerie Plame, the undercover CIA operative, to the press but rather for lying and obstruction of justice. The protections for government officials for far more serious crimes are oddly enough higher than for similar offenses elsewhere. That is, it’s easier to prosecute outing such information if national security is NOT involved.
It’s not quibbling over semantics, either. It says much about what many deem criminal, and what many tolerate, in our society. I’m not saying that the A-Rod issue and how it was revealed is insignificant; on the contrary. Nor am I finger-pointing toward people here. I am saying that, relative to other, more recent, and far more serious cases of abuse, A-Rod’s “outing” shouldn’t be near the top of the socio-political pecking order, yet is.
Ugh, she’s rumored to be going “there” in the book?
Yikes.
“can Arod get suspended by MLB or the Yankees from this? Is this something that could affect him on the field?”
He wouldn’t be suspended by MLB because the testing was done at the behest of the MLB with the understanding that it was to get a handle of the possible extent of use and that users would not be punished.
“can Arod get suspended by MLB or the Yankees from this? Is this something that could affect him on the field?”
He wouldn’t be suspended by MLB because the testing was done at the behest of the MLB with the understanding that it was to get a handle of the possible extent of use and that users would not be punished.
http://njfrogman.blogspot.com/.....ts-to.html
The NY Daily News once had a curious quote, “A petite stripper at the Hustler Club said A-Rod “likes the she-male, muscular type. They brought me up to the champagne room one time. I spun around once and that was it. I’m not his type.”
I don’t think the Yankees could do anything because he wasn’t with the team when the testing was done and again there were to be no punitive measures taken against those who tested positive according to the 2003 testing policy.
It could definitely affect him on the field because he is such a complex personality. But it could also propel him to prove himself over and over again so it could also affect him in a positive way. Time will tell on that one.
“There are some acting like she did this because she’s a woman obsessed with bringing down A-rod. You think a guy would sit on this story? No journalist would sit on this story. Can’t see it.”
m,
it has nothing to do with her gender but she was given more names (or at the very least could have attempted to get them).
Most journalists would at least make an attempt to get more of the names. She wasn’t interested in that. This one took Alex’s name, published it, and will be laughing all the way to the bank.
I guess being a journalist isn’t so hard.
Find an easy target and bring them down. Bring them down hard. Sell books.
Salacious books filled with scandal sell a heck of a lot more copies. We have to blame the people buying these books who support this type of journalism as well.
For as long as a very incompetent fool like Allan Selig is allowed to hold the reigns of the Office of the Commissioner, steroids and a multitude of other problems will exist.
It’s the owners that hire / fire and approve the salary of the Commissioner. It’s their call how long baseball will have the problems of today – or not. Selig is answerable to them only.
igotid88
February 8th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
He didn’t do it. I have 4 unnammed sources.
_______________________________________________
come on spill.
igotid88
February 8th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
He didn’t do it. I have 4 unnammed sources.
_
come on spill.
_______________________________________
I can’t. They were not given names at birth.
The Heyman and Posnanski pieces were terrific.
As to Heyman, he’s right – this casts a huge pall on the Yankees. I am concerned about the team. The A-Rod stuff isn’t going to make CC or AJ pitch worse than they would have; it’s not going to make Tex a bad hitter, nor is it going to change how well or poorly Matsui and Posada return from injury. My biggest concern is how this affects the team overall. I think they’ll be fine with Alex, but they are going to have to answer questions on a daily basis (and that can drive anyone crazy)…….unless the Yankees set ground rules with the media right from the very beginning of ST. This team still has a goal ahead of them for 2009: make the playoffs and put themselves in a position for a WS run. Even if they win, it will be tainted.
Re: Posnanski – he’s right. A-Rod didn’t have to do all this – it’s a baseball tragedy. He was blessed with incredible natural ability and to throw his whole career away because he thought steroids would turn him into Superman? He was already Superman. Just depressing.
“It is rumored that the book may take a look at Arod’s struggle with his sexuality as well as his steroid use”
Um…what the heck?
Trish, Doreen – isn’t that the most vile piece of filth you’ve ever read? Just look at Monique’s quote…..
Even with all this steroid controversy around Alex, the better angels of my nature believe that even those who don’t like him would have to sympathize with him. For any remaining (few in number as they are) respectable sportswriters left, they can’t possibly see this as anything less than a poisonous, obvious attempt to blow Alex to pieces.
Betsy:
The media doesn’t work for the Yankees. They can’t tell us what to ask or not ask. These are adult men. If they want to answer a question, they will. If they do not, they won’t.
There are plenty of players on that team who find the idea of using steroids sickening to their sense of fair play. I don’t expect anybody to out and out attack Alex. But they’re not going to just blindly support him, either.
If you’re a player who doesn’t cheat and makes $5 million, how would you feel about the guy who does cheat and makes $30 million? Or that his actions bring the circus to town?
m,
it has nothing to do with her gender but she was given more names (or at the very least could have attempted to get them).
Most journalists would at least make an attempt to get more of the names. She wasn’t interested in that. This one took Alex’s name, published it, and will be laughing all the way to the bank.
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It’s ridiculous that we have to even say “it has nothing to do with her gender.” The lowest common denominator type of poster made that brilliant leap that Roberts’ desire to take ARod down was somehow connected to her physical qualities, and people protested, and PA addressed zero tolerance for personal attacks.
That poster has fled, of course, but no one else here, to my knowledge was:
1). Making a judgment about Roberts’ looks, of all things, or
2). Even addressing what the woman looks like, which is beyond irrelevant to any of this, and ,
3). Connecting 1 or 2 with Roberts having broken this story.
It was the dumb poster who betrayed his/her own focus on Roberts’ “looks” and his OWN judgment thereof, as if anyone here cares or wants to drag gender into this.
As to Roberts having it in for ARod, personally, her columns with ARod as the subject often strike me as gratuitous, if not mean-spirited.
She also did the ARod as Slumlord story. Having said that, she seems to have a lot of company among columnists who delight in bringing ARod down.
Mr. November Reign
February 8th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
it looks like she is out to destroy him
http://njfrogman.blogspot.com/.....ts-to.html
I’d like to see what proof she has, and if she cannot do a good job of proving this ( anonymous sources arent going to cut it, Alex could and should sue her.
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Count me in as officially concerned about ARod’s well being.
Betsy, when someone feels the need to write a down-and-dirty book exposing a public figure’s vulnerabilities, I always feel the need to ask why and wonder what is behind it.
Let me say this. I have no idea what that garbage digger intends to probe in her book but if she is going near issues having to do with his personal life in a way that might embarrass him, meaning if she intends to try to introduce salacious content that goes beyond information about Alex that is already public, she will definitely be biting off more than she can chew.
I will personally start a letter-writing campaign and will contact every agent, sponsor, attorney, and anyone else associated with Arod, and I will write letters to every newspaper in the US urging Arod to sue her as flat as a pancake.
I am extremely unhappy with so much about Arod, not the least of which is this latest information. But someone delving into issues of his sexuality (first I’ve heard that it needs delving into, except for jokes that Sox fans made about him and Jeter – and they were obvious jokes) will have crossed the line in the most despicable and unacceptable manner of all. Selena Roberts better be prepared for the fallout if that suggestion turns out to be fact.
I would hope I’d have help from people on this forum.
There’s freedom of the press and then there’s invading and ruining someone to earn 15 seconds of fame.
But the players know how rampant steroid use is. The support for Giambi showed that they knew he was hardly alone.
Trisha,
You are one hundred percent right. I don’t want to jump the gun, though. Let’s see what falls out.
Pete, they supported Giambi. For them not to do the same for Alex would be disgraceful.
No, of course the Yankees can’t tell the media not to ask ?. However, the Yankees have to manage this chaos as best as possible. This will be easier when the season starts because, like it or not, the media will have to cover the games. They will have to write editorials about CC’s great start (or his slow start), Tex’ ability at first base (nice change of pace from the last few years), etc….The games are still going to be played and fans will want to read about them. In ST, though – the Yankees should set up a time for the media to ask ? about the steroid stuff and then……..end it. Isn’t that what happened with Andy last year?
“You are one hundred percent right. I don’t want to jump the gun, though. Let’s see what falls out.”
Agree. But what a tragic figure Arod has turned out to be. It actually hurts my heart for him.
Alex does nor now, nor will he ever have the maental capacity to handle this mess. He does not have the integrity to tell the truth which is his only way out. He will continue to be a drain on the Yankees and his signing will go down as one of the biggest blunders in Yankee history. You may choose to support him as is your right but I have disliked the man from day one. I have stated and will continue to state the New York Yankees will never win a World Series with Alex on the team. What a huge mistake to not let him walk away. I was at the game last year against the Red Sox when he hit into 2 double plays and struck out 3 times with the season on the line. What a nightmare. I was booing like crazy and this idiot behind me wanted to fight me for booing him. How can any of you still want him on the team. It is so obvious to most sane people that this is never going to work.
^^^I’ve always thought this about him, too. I can’t help but feel that people who are inspired to gouge him betray a sadistic bent, because for all his intelligence, he’s an easy target. They have a kind of radar for the vulnerable, and it brings out the worst in them.
The fact that ARod is rich, “good looking”, successful, famous, etc. dehumanizes him for them, so they can not only excuse their own venality, they actually can pat themselves on the back for it.
Betsy and Trisha,
That is really disturbing about Roberts’ book. I’ve always believed that a lot of the hostility towards ARod is based on his refusal to conform to traditional, neanderthal notions of masculinity. I think he just twitches the nerves of people with homophobic tendencies.
However, I don’t believe he’s been a closet case for all these years, because if he was, he would be a lot more careful about things like his frosted hair. (If I’m wrong, however, he should come out on that as well. It would certainly put the steroid stuff in perspective, and would make him a lot more sympathetic. Plus, once he was out, people would have to be a lot more careful about the homophobia).
if she writing a book on that, she going to far
No mention by Mr. Borden that Selena Roberts is writing a hit book on A-Rod? That could surely cloud the reliability of her reporting.
“Congress can make this easy….
Demand the resignations of Selig, Fehr and Orza within the next 48 hours.”
SJ,
You say you have legal background, but write stuff like this. Congress can not force this. The courts will strike it out quickly.
“most baseball fans hate him anyway”
This can not be true.
If so, how come A-Rod received the most fan votes for all star game?
I can’t believe what I am reading here. Can it be that disclosure of a positive steroids test will gain A-Rod the embrace of Yankees fans that has eluded him for five years? I have been a Yankees fan for 49 years and, Fritz Peterson/Mike Kekich excepted, this is the darnedest thing I ever did see.
Jeter has missed every single chance to step up to the plate and really back A-Rod. Jeter, lets for once do the right thing and stop being selfish. If Jeter backs A-Rod, the rest of the tri-state area will follow suit.
was that the only test he failed? if it was he can just say he didn’t do it. And the fact that it was supposed to be anonymous. He could say had he known then he could’ve challenge the results. Didn’t they re-test a negative result from Barry Bonds and it came back positive? i’m just saying.
Since all the players who hit more than 61 homers in a season have been linked to steroids, can MLB just wipe them all out and restore the record to Roger Maris?
61 is a great number. 73 is outrageous.
Since when does Jeter have to “step up” to bat for Arod? Jeter has nothing to do with what is happening with Arod. All Jeter can say is “Alex is a teammate and we stand behind him.” And if I’m Jeter, I’m standing 6 feet behind Arod.
Are you people serious? You realize when asked about it, he didn’t deny it, or say “I don’t know what you’re talking about”; he said “Talk to the union, I’m not saying anything.” Does that sound like an innocent man to you?
This prima donna, who pines for attention and bangs old pop icons and will probably be worth a billion dollars before his career is over — he deserves all the grief his guilt has brought upon him because people who work just as hard as him, with less gifts than he was naturally blessed with, will never see the kind of ridiculous adulation he’s been showered with his whole career. There are people who make far less money and get far less attention by doing things the right way and the fair way. Why should someone who makes more by doing it the wrong way get a free pass. Screw him.
And beyond that — and I ask you this as a Yankee fan for 19 of my 22 years — who among you wouldn’t be thrilled and exultant at the same revelations about Manny, or Ortiz, or Papelbon? Would you be decrying breaches of privacy then, or coming up with conspiracy theories? Take your head out of the clouds and consider what’s best for the sport, not just the Yankees or fragile, phony Alex. Why should someone excelling at the game with the help of unnatural, illegal enhancers be treated with the same objective decency as the nameless, platoon, few million dollar career and out player who you won’t remember a few years from now but tried just as hard and never quite got there? Again, screw him.
I don’t get this shock & outrage…Whoever thought baseball was a purely clean sport is delusional..When the list of 104 is exposed,it may have more credibility..To single out one player,a little suspicious..
I want to hear from A-Rod..If true, he must apologize for lying,then move on..It’s not the end of the world,as there are much more pressing issues than this..
I’m still a diehard Yankee fan no matter what..