So it seems like steroids work
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- February
- 9
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A-Rod from 2001-2003: 161.7 games, 52 homers, 131.7 RBI and a .615 slugging percentage.
A-Rod’s other seasons: 149.2 games, 39.2 homers, 119 RBI and a .574 slugging percentage.
(Stats via the Elias Sports Bureau)
Said Rangers owner Tom Hicks: “I feel personally betrayed. I feel deceived by Alex. He assured me that he had far too much respect for his own body to ever do that to himself. … I certainly don’t believe that if he’s now admitting that he started using when he came to the Texas Rangers, why should I believe that it didn’t start before he came to the Texas Rangers?”
Still no response from the Yankees.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Yeah cause no one has better number when they hit in Texas.
Tom Hicks can eat it. His team was full of roiders, Please, this guy is as silly as stienbrenner’s turtlenecks
Pete, Texas is also a launching ground for homeruns.
did you calculate texas as a homerun bandbox? didnt think so…
the balls fly out in the texas heat — pete you’re just loving all of this. you’ve always been an a-rod hater- i’ve read this blog every day since 06- so don’t bother denying it.
Espn got a copy of a police report that there was an incident at the guard shack by Alex’s home.
and he played in texas when he was 25, 26, and 27…I just like how you LOVED giambi, or the big g, as you called him, but with arod your coverage is just different…just saying
Wow Pete, I think you are off on this one.
You really think those are a significant spike in numbers? Especially playing in a bandbox ballpark with balls as juiced as the players were in those days?
Ask Jeremy Giambi how steroids worked for him.
That’s the whole issue about PED’s. They aren’t a magic elixir and you can’t “tell by looking at someone” or looking at numbers who is using and who isn’t.
Its a complex issue and you can’t simplify it to make points.
Its one reason why opinions are so diverse on the subject.
way to be anti arod, once one factors in that texas park is a launching pad for homeruns, the difference in #s isnt really significant
Not to mention that Safeco is pitcher-friendly.
Glibness is not flattering.
Can anyone run those same stats except without A-Rod’s fist two seasons? He wasn’t a full time player until 1996. 1994 and 1995 stats my skew the non texas years stats.
Tom Hicks lack of credibility of all the owners in baseball. Come on – the guy had the center of the roids game on his roster – Juan Gonzales, Ivan Rodriguez, and Rafael Palmerio (plus maybe Dean Palmer). The guy has very little credibility – he looked the other way as the Rangers made the playoffs in ‘98 and ‘99. Please.
I agree that this post is unfair to A-Rod. I’m not a huge A-Rod fan, but honestly 2001-2003 were seasons when he was 25-27. Those are prime years in a player’s career. Factor in a great hitting park like Texas in which line drives fly out of the park, and you have an explanation for those numbers.
You can’t just say steroids made those numbers without looking at external factors. That would be naive and stoopid.
Wow, Pete, wow. The difference in Texas and Seattle/New York has no effect on those numbers at all, does it. Wow. Can’t you just posted that without that qualifier. Shoddy, shoddy reporting.
Come on Pete just come out and say you hate A-rod.
migames
Agreed.
I truly hope that Alex was 100% truthful in his interview. Because if he wasn’t he will only have made things worse for himself.
Michael Kay today was talking saying the Yankees should hold a big press conference with everyone there. State that this is the first and only time that this will be addressed, any further questions will be answered with a no comment, so ask away.
*Can’t believe you just posted that.
@Tank
It looks like he did run them w/o the first two seasons.
Come on Pete. If you want those statistics to have some validity you’d have to compare stats in away parks at very least (or more so, by comparing age of player, divisional differences etc). These have not been your best posts.
Jeter is the one finally to speak out about the test supposed to be anonymous. Good job, Jete.
Alex hit 96 homeruns in Texas.
Wow.
I’m just speechless.
The difference in attitude toward Giambi and ARod is mind-blowing.
Wow.
Tom Hicks sounds alot like Claude Raines in “Casablanca”
“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money-Croupier: "Your winnings, sir"].
“Oh, thank you very much.nnEverybody out at once!”
Just to be perfectly clear here, this is definitely the worst post I’ve seen you make on this blog Pete. Absolutely terrible post. No way around it unless you update it with a disclaimer. None.
Not only the ballpark difference but those years were his prime years…bad job here PA
I actually hope Peter and his colleagues keep up with the moral indignation and lack of context outrage. I think it will just generate more sympathy for ARod, just like by the end of 2006 most fans, and even a few in the media, realized how out of control the bashing had gotten.
Jeter hit 21 homeruns as an opposing player.
Jon Heyman, as I remember, has really gone out of his way to be fair to Alex. He’s on next on MLB TV.
I’m of the belief that the changes to the game itself: type of bats, balls, size of mound, dimensions of ball park have had a FAAAAAAR more significant impact on the “stats” than PED use.
Let face facts – players play more games and TRAVEL more these days and deal with alot more mental stress and media scrutiny.
The PED’s give them more stamina so the extra “stuff” they have to deal with in this day and age offsets what the Old Timers didn’t have to do.
PED’s don’t make you swing a bat faster or improve your hand eye coordination. It allows you to maintain your strength and stamina over the long haul. You have to still go out and perform.
Let’s not also discount the “psycological effect” that using PED’s must magically make you better and the player feels more confident.
Clare, if Gammons could find his way clear to supporting Arod, I think a lot of credible reporters will do the same.
It’s not too hard to look at this in context:
His OPS+ from 2001-2003:
160 – 158 – 147
He has blown those numbers away twice since he came to the Yankees. He was slightly better than that the year before he arrived in Texas (162 in 2000). In his first full season at the age of 20, he put up a 160.
Given that these are prime years for a baseball player, I’d have to say that there really isn’t any statistical evidence that the steroids improved his performance.
This is not to say I want to defend A-Rod – quite the contrary. But you can’t use numbers to prove the point about steroids in his case, it appears.
Oh hush Tom Hicks
If this is true, then Matt Holliday, Larry Walker and basically every single member of the Colorado Rockies have some explaining to do….
How many consecutive years has Texas been in the top 3-4 teams in the AL in offense? And how many consecutive years has Texas been one of the worst pitching teams in all of baseball?
You can’t discount the effect of steroids on those stats. But at the same time, you can’t discount how that ballpark plays during the course of the regular season. Baseballs are launched out of that place on a regular basis, whereas Yankee Stadium has been a right-handed deathtrap for as long as it’s been standing. There was a reason the only right-handed hitter to hit 40 home runs in a season was Joe DiMaggio some 60+ seasons ago.
Can someone give me the link to Sam’s blog?
wow, for the first time ever, my post are not showing up on this blog…
2001-2003
HR Home 86
HR Away 70
…there we go. THIS JUST IN: Pete Abe arrested in Arod’s garden looking over his stats in texas
I’m not sure why everyone is freaking out about the numbers Pete posted. You guys are right about Texas being a band box but If the numbers show a spike in performance in the Texas years, doesn’t that corroborate A-Rod’s story about only using in ‘01-’03?
And therefore, suggest that he’s been clean in New York? That’s been my primary concern.
Great interview with Heyman.
We’re not privy to the experiences that Pete has had in the Yankee clubhouse interacting with players and trying to talk to them about various topics. By all accounts, Giambi seemed like an affable, outgoing, fun personality who was easy for a journalist to work with. A-Rod, on the other hand, might have been a callous jerk who didn’t like dealing with reporters at all.
We can’t stipulate a person’s inner thoughts based on what he or she wrote, we can only comment on what was written. I have a problem with this post not because Pete may or may not like A-Rod based on his experiences with him. I have a problem with it because Texas is a notorious launchpad for baseballs and has been for the last decade.
Pete isn’t going to tell us whether or not he likes A-Rod, so we should just drop it and deal with the actual information presented in the article.
Who is this guy running his mouth on MLB Network.
I’m with Kevin: “I’m of the belief that the changes to the game itself: type of bats, balls, size of mound, dimensions of ball park have had a FAAAAAAR more significant impact on the “stats” than PED use.”
How can anyone look at stats from diffirent areas…I mean Joe D and Mickey had to hit bombs 425 feet to left center for homers and Mike Schmidt didn’t hit in the new Philly park.
Also, I wonder how many gotcha reporters are going to bait A-rod from here on in.
Pete
You have an apples and oranges comparison. Texas is a home run park. Alex only played 3 years in Texas. You are then comparing those 3 seasons sandwiched in between his Seattle playing days and his time with the Yanks. When you factor in his Seattle time you are taking into account his rookie and early years when he did not hit his peak.
I think the real thing in this whole regrettable episode is that Arod did not need steroids. He is a gifted player who really does not need steroids. There clearly are/were players who needed roids to play at a level that was far beyond their natural ability. Canseco is clearly one of those type of players.
Pete,
Any chance the yanks have a clause in his contract that says null and void if proven he used PEDs? Did they learn anything from the Giambi fiasco? Thanks. Don
lol pete.
yeah i agree this post is unfair. Ive never been a big ARod fan and only cheer him on being a yankee, but age, the ballpark, and number of games played makes a huge difference. Either way the numbers are not very far off…
Is this the same Pete who refers to juicer Giambi as the BIG G.
A-Rods away OPS. I start in his breakout year.
Roid NoRoid
1998 1.023
1999 0.968
2000 1.135
2001 0.926
2002 0.928
2003 0.961
2004 0.920
2005 0.951
2006 0.860
2007 1.101
2008 0.885
Average 0.938 0.980
“There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.”
Twain
Someone has to challenge Hicks.. Why are all these Roiders coming from his team?
Eric -
If one wants to say that steroids helped A-Rod’s performance, it appears to me that the argument would favor those who say A-Rod has taken them for a much longer period of time than 2001-2003.
You either have to conclude that he has always taken them OR that they didn’t really impact his performance very much, if at all. The one conclusion I don’t think people can reasonably reach is that his 2001-2003 seasons show spikes that can prove steroid use during that period.
Joe “In my day guys did it with blood and sweat” Morgan is now on ESPN.
I agree that the numbers don’t prove anything. If they helped at all in A-Rod’s case, as in many others, it would have to be in recovery of injuries. I believe Alex when he says that he stopped use after 2003. I would think that if he continued use he would have been caught and suspended already.
I also don’t believe that he didn’t know what he was taking. I’d like to know where he got them from, and who turned him on to steroids. He had to have talked to someone.
What do you think the chances are of the federal investigators asking Alex to testify as to who his supplier was?
Let’s try this again with better formatting:
Year Roid NoRoid
1998 XXXX 1.023
1999 XXXX 0.968
2000 XXXX 1.135
2001 0.926 XXXX
2002 0.928 XXXX
2003 0.961 XXXX
2004 XXXX 0.920
2005 XXXX 0.951
2006 XXXX 0.860
2007 XXXX 1.101
2008 XXXX 0.885
Average 0.938 0.980
eric in Queens,
Good point, I thought the same thing, but you beat me to it.
Psyluk
Pete has told us flat out. He thinks A-Rod is a jerk.
I can’t wait for the cell phone pictures of Selena Roberts stuck half way down Arod’s garbage can looking for dirt.
I’m still searching online for this journalist “code or oath” that must be signed in blood where all reporters stick up for other reporters.
Nice Going A Fraud. The Fraud on the interview is so doped on roids he can’t even remember what he took…REALLY? Nice, A FRUAD. What a piece of work. BOOOO A FRAUD this whole season, from all of us Yankee fans. 2007, the Fraud says to Katie Couric, “I NEVER USED ANY ROIDS”,,,LIAR, CHEATER, that is what a FRUAD IS…………go back in your hole A Fraud and leave us Yankee fans alone
So who’s the next greatest baseball player that ever play the game? Maybe we should all root for Albert Pujols to break the homerun record.
Mygirls –
you really should set up a hot key on your computer with the word “A FRAUD” – it would help with the mis-spellings.
By the way, I don’t think that he meant it was the culture in Texas as much as it was the culture in baseball as a whole. Listen again to the interview or check out the transcript.
Also, can someone clarify for me when he knew that he tested positive. Did he say that he just found out when Selena told him last week?
Pat,
If Pete came out and said it, then why are we all surprised at what was written?
We don’t have to agree with any of it, but it’s not our place to tell somewhat what to write. It’s his blog, so he’s entitled to put his own opinions on it. After all, isn’t that what a blog is for?
I don’t like the comparison to the Texas years at all and think that it’s really piling on in an unnecessary fashion. But (and to quote Peter Griffin), even though I don’t agree with what he says, I’ll defend to my death his right to say it.
Jim,
Yes, he said the first time he knew for sure that he had failed the test was when Roberts confronted him with that information last week.
And can someone link to the source about the Miami incident in the ‘guard house?’
This place is getting far too sanctimonious for me. Ugh.
wow – biased much?
Hope the Fraud hits 800 HR’s……as he will never sniff the Hall of Fame…maybe the Hall of Shame…..serves the Fraud right…….
Arod went farther than ANYBODY who has ever flunked a drug test in MLB.
Folks in and out of the media will parse every word and find ways to continue to hate the guy, if that’s their fancy.
As far as Selena Roberts is concerned, let’s be fair. Yes, she had the story correct. Given the leaked info, one would hope she could report a positive test accurately.
However, calling her credentials “impeccable” is ridiculous given her reporting and behavior during the Duke Lacrosse Case.
She lost her job as a sports columnist for the NY Times because of that behavior. That’s a pretty big loss. Especially for one who broke ground as one of the very few female columnists for a major newspaper in the country.
She has bothered this guy for months because she is writing a VERY unflattering unauthorized biography of him.
She is asking those who have only met the guy one or two times some pretty personal questions about him.
She isn’t an “innocent” in all this. She has an agenda and it isn’t to produce “good journalism”, IMO.
That said, Arod, not Selena, flunked the drug test. He was clear today that he, and nobody else, is to blame for that.
He’s also clear that he doesn’t like Selena Roberts. I don’t think anybody would if there were in his shoes knowing what she intends to put in that book.
Me? I’ve known him since he was 14 years old. I know the good, the bad and the in between.
To me, it looked like he had the weight of the world lifted off his shoulders. It looked to me that FINALLY he stripped away some of that false bravado and we saw a human being again.
I’m not being polyanna about it. He’s got a long road ahead. Its not going to be easy.
If he wasn’t truthful today, and other info comes out in drips and drabs, he is finished. For his sake, I hope he told the truth today.
He can come out of this and become the player and person everybody around him wants him to become.
To do so however, he has to grow up, accept responsibility, put the diva crap aside, and change his life.
Today, IMO, was a very positive first step.
Is it me or do a lot of comments suddenly disappear?
Strange how the guys on MLB network asked Roberts about all parts of his allegations except the book? Hmmm
Did he do them before he went to Texas? Maybe because he lied once not again.
But since none of his Mariners teamates apparently were using from what I have seen so far and he still wasn’t as big as he is now I doubt it.
Much more plausable in Texas surrounded by Pudge, Juan Gone, Plamerio, Jose, etc as well as some of the others that have passed thru there that Arod started or was introduced there. It would also make sense that you would think it was ok if everyone around you was doing the same thing.
Haven’t read any of the comments above so I’m sure someone mentioned it but your numbers tend to be better when you play in a stadium the size of a New York City backyard
jonnycat- I am trying to find it. I only posted what I heard on espnews.
Wow.
I’m just speechless.
The difference in attitude toward Giambi and ARod is mind-blowing.
Wow.
**********************************************************
Absolutely. Just wow.
You know, we were watching today at work when they were first showing the clips of the interview from tonight – and someone in the room who I don’t even know, said “Let the parsing begin” when it was done.
He was so right.
Just unbelievable.
Pat, you will find Jimmy Hoffa before you find someone questioning her about the timing of her book.
Tom K-
I see what you’re getting at. I don’t agree with everything Pete posts, and everyone knows he doesn’t like A-Rod. However, I don’t interpret this post to be some hatchet job on A-Rod. Obviously, by not factoring in ballparks the methodology is flawed. I’ll shut up now as our great President is speaking.
C’mon Pete. Lighten up on A-Rod. I don’t condone what he did in the past but I have to give him credit for his admission today.
Your anti A-Rod posts are getting old Pete
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....ory?page=2
Posada spoke about Alex, basically said Alex is his teammate and his friend he is going to support him.
I hope in those averages we stripped out the year in 97 he had 23 homers and 84 runs driven in.
Plus the fact that I am sure a guy like BJ Upton’s numbers should increase the more years he plays as he adopts to the game and gets stronger.
If alex wants us to believe he didnt juice in 07, when he really hit “in the clutch” in his walk year, I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.
Who cares what Hicks says about his pathetic organization.
Tom,
Thanks for posting the OPS+ numbers to try to explain away the hack job Pete put up there.
C’mon, Pete. You’re better than that.
Pete,
Those stats are a bit misleading.
Arod, when he was Seattle, had a bad knee injury at a play at 2nd one year and missed a significant amount of time.
I know this because he sunk my fantasy baseball team that year! Stupid Arod.
I’m sure the time missed that season drops his games played to where they are.
That said, I’m with Hicks. I have ZERO reason to believe a liar that he didn’t use PED’s before 2001 and hasn’t used since 2003.
He came clean today to a point. He played that stupid “I don’t know what I took” game and that incensed me.
If you hit rock bottom, like he should have hit, the lying had to stop once and for all.
If it were for legal reasons he couldn’t reveal what he knew what he took, the he needed to state that.
But to play that whole “I really don’t know what I took” game is an insult to all the fans who cheered for him. He owed us the truth, not another convenient lie.
He still thinks he’s bigger than the game.
He’s going to find out, he’s not.
I don’t think Pete has done much research and come up with anything new. He is basically regurgitating what ESPN has already said. It’s ignorant to compare his numbers in Texas to those in Seattle and New York.
His away stats in
2001: .276/.359/.567/.927 26HR 70 RBI
2002: .277/.381/.547/.927 23HR 60 RBI
2003: .282/.384/.577/.961 21HR 47 RBI
Now for the away stats over the last three Yankee years
2006: .270/.386/.474/.860 15HR 55 RBI
2007: .326/.441/.660/1.101 28HR 68 RBI
2008: .280/.383/.502/.885 14HR 43 RBI
It looks like his away hitting was about the same, if not slightly better, with the Yankees, had about 4 more away HR per season and about 4 more away RBI per season with Texas.
And when you consider that he had more ABs per season when with Texas than with Yankees and that he played in probably the toughest division in baseball over the last three years, you’d have to consider that his performance hasn’t changed all that much.
Do some real work!
Two words: park effects.
Texas is a bandbox.
Safeco and the Stadium are not (for right handers).
That might have something to do with it too.
SJ,
Has Roberts talked to you about ARod?
I hope you’re right. It certainly looked like he was relieved to be getting this off his chest.
Pete,
Would you publish information that you knew was illegally obtained by a source?
Would you solicit, and actively pursue, information that you knew was illegally obtained by a source?
Would you be willing to be complicit in illegally obtaining information, from sealed court documents, that you wanted to use in a column or book?
Good for Posada, he should support his teammate.
This mess could make for an absolutely fascinating clubhouse culture this year. I’m curious to see how the team and the fans will handle this whole situation. Will he get the Giambi standing ovation treatment or will he get booed on opening day at the new stadium?
My hope is that he gets supported and cheered, then proceeds to crank 60 home runs just to shove it in the face of all his doubters and show us just how good he is.
I can only hope.
I, like the majority of posters, think your statement is not justified. there needs to be considerable analysis of data to say that PED’s have a true effect on performance. Much like A-rod claimed he was in his interview with Peter Gammons, your post was incredibly naive.
Clare,
No. Mainly because she knows I wouldn’t talk to her about it.
I do know though she has spent a lot of time on her tell all.
She now helped her book sales big time after the past few days.
Arod has only himself to blame (unfortunately) for that part of the story.
I would think Alex’s teammates will support him. They want him to do well not wilt under the spot light. They need him to do well.
Now this is a riot! Check out this US breakdown on who forgives Arod and who doesn’t! (You gotta give him some props here since to even ask if people forgive him affords him a lot of power!)
Is Pete currently in northern NE????
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....llId=67385
Jason,
How do we know Pujols has been clean?
I don’t give Alex much credit for today’s admission, not after he’s told everyone for years that he didn’t use performance enhancers. I love the game of baseball, but I can’t stomach much more of this.
Sj44- I would like to think that her book would tank, but sadly in this celebrity driven society the book will do well.
The truly sad thing about this is that ARod didn’t need to use the PEDs. He was great before using and great after using. It’s just sad.
I want to see this police report on Selena Roberts.
Oh oh, this is not going to go over well
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....=Neyer_Rob
canseco is probably low on his estimate of 80% users. pujols
is the greatest missing link.
I think the Arod situation and Pete’s take can be likened to the statement on faith:
For those who like Arod no further statement is necessary.
For those who do not like Arod, no further statement is enough.
Guys, steroids absolutely help hitters. Obviously you have to work out to gain the benefits of the drugs in question, but they help give you results when you do that. These players were stronger, more energetic, and recovered from fatigue faster while using PEDS. Just look at Bonds, and Clemens. Brady Anderson anyone? They help. It doesn’t mean that Arod isn’t a great player without them. It simply means that they made him even better, than he already was.
Tom Hicks is a moron, so he didnt care about the other players in his organization who roided just arod? give me a break.
personal1y i believe what arod said and i think it was a good interview, i even actually laughed out loud at one point when he was talking about the fact that everyone makes fun of him even the clubhouse helper. but i must say i kind of cringed when he brought up some things about roberts, if it comes to be not true then that whol;e interview will be even more scrutinzied then it alreay is.
Neyer is a well known Yankee trasher. Why are you so stunned by his response “Baseball Fan”? I don’t think any of us Yankee fans are.
Next.
But good job finding negative press. Keep going. You might find more you can link to.
This Obama is making lots of sense. It’s about time we had a leader with ideals.
I’m amazed at all of the apologists who are bashing Pete over this. A-Rod is a hologram — there is virtually nothing real about him. And this is partly why he draws so much criticism.
Pete didn’t use PEDs; A-Rod did. Maybe your positive vibes will lead him to greatness; but it’s just as likely that he crumbles under the weight of this and his own fragility.
I am surprised that the Yanks haven’t put out a statement yet. I believe when the Pettitte thing came out they had a statement within hours. They have to talk eventually…obviously. It is just telling how disappointed they are, like they should be.
Anybody else catching heat for being a Yankee fan during all of this? This ARod thing isnt a yankee thing, nor is it a Texas thing. I am getting fet up with all these Yankee haters who want anyone to win, as long as its not the Yankees. Yeah, I’m talking to you New England.
Andy Pettitte read a statement. ARod tried to memorize one. But except for that initial answer, I felt most of the interview was fine. Why would anyone be surprised that some of the interview came across as scripted or damage control? They did not put this together in 5 minutes. They worked on this all weekend. it does not mean it wasn’t heartfelt or inauthentic. it means he was prepared. I don’t really have a problem with that.
Matt,
yep, its okay though i can handle it, years of experience lol we will see who gets the last laugh.
Sorry Pete, the world ain’t black or white. Using PEDs is clearly wrong, but so are a lot of things people do in life. There is a context to this issue as well. I bet the former professional athletes now in the media can understand. But journalists who probably never made it passed JV ball always seem to be the ones who cry the loudest about the “damage to the game.” Get off your highhorse brother.
I suspect we will get a statement from the Yankees sometime tomorrow.
Shooting the messenger isn’t good.
Blindly praising the messenger isn’t good either.
Anyone who reads her work in the Duke case and then says Selena Roberts is “a respected journalist”, has “impeccable” credentials, or is beyond reproach is living in LA LA land.
http://durhamwonderland.blogsp.....ading.html
ZMANN I don’t think you should call people who are bashing Pete “Arod apologists”. My read is that they feel that Pete may have rushed to judgement in what he posted by not factoring in the size of the ballpark in Texas and whether it is easier to put up better numbers there than at Safeco or Yankee Stadium. Not everyone who questioned the stats is an apologist.
My opinion.
Sorry Pete, the world ain’t black or white. Using PEDs is clearly wrong, but so are a lot of things people do in life. There is a context to this issue as well. I bet the former professional athletes now in the media can understand. But journalists who probably never made it past JV ball always seem to be the ones who cry the loudest about the “damage to the game.” Get off your highhorse brother.
Not sure if this is true but here it is
http://www.bugsandcranks.com/t.....nderstand/
“Basically, primobolan allows the user to gain muscle without changing their normal food consumption (it does this by telling your body to retain nitrogen which helps build muscle). However, the muscle gain is small which is why Primobolan is considered to be a weak steroid.”
“Basically, Alex Rodriguez took a steroid that made him as strong as he would have been if he were just going to the gym with the veracity that he reportedly does, with the difference being that instead of packing on pounds he was able to get bigger and remain cut. To put it bluntly, the advantage Rodriguez earned from primobolan was in sexiness, not in strength. “
>I think the Arod situation and Pete’s take can be likened to the statement on
>faith:
>
>For those who like Arod no further statement is necessary.
>
>For those who do not like Arod, no further statement is enough.
========
Trisha is right on the money and Tom Hicks is a french word for shower.
congrats pete on your brilliance in simplicity today. is texas a pitchers park in your book?
What really bothers me about all this excessive coverage about every word ARod says is that this was not a scripted interview. He didn’t know the questions coming, he might have prepared some key points on what he was going to say, but that’s it.
His claim is that he didn’t even know that he failed a drug screening test before this past Thursday. If he were experimenting as he claimed, he might not know if there were banned substances in the various things he took. The steroid named in the report is one that is able to be ingested not just injected.
To me, the errors he makes in the interview are what helps to make it more genuine. He is obviously tired and angry with Selena Roberts. Who wouldn’t be if she did as many hit pieces against them as she has against him? She is coming out with an UNauthorized book about him, meaning that she is looking to make a lot of money by trashing him.
In watching the MLB coverage on this, I think Sean Casey is being far too defensive about how “most players” didn’t use PEDs. The evidence is out there that is not the case.
He didn’t need to admit how long it was going on. Had he said one season, one cycle, it could have been believable. His talking about it being from 2001 – 2003 comes off as more real.
I feel that Selena Roberts has an agenda against ARod. Talking about the process, according to her she verified her sources to the truth of ARod being on the list. If that is so, why would they be invalid for any and every other player on that list? It doesn’t add up.
Too much of her report coming out just doesn’t pass the smell test. A profile piece – which should read hit/rip job, just doesn’t seem likely to lead to a list that is part of an on going court case.
There is wrong doing here. Besides the point of this report being true, laws were broken here. Roberts has shown she has no problem allowing people to break the law in order to get ARod.
I agree with SJ completely…I think the whole A-Rod personna may take a back seat and we’ll fianlly see Alex the ballplayer……The turning point in his career…The day he became a man
What would happen if reporters were unable to get inside stories, one-on-one interviews with players and just had to report the game summaries, that we can all watch and hear for ourselves?????
Can you imagine the reaction if he hadn’t prepared and instead stammered and ahhhed/ummmmed his way through it?
It’b be different than it is now.
I’m still floored by the Giambi/Arod variance.
Giambi must have been some kind of fun dude – especially around the “‘Stache to the ASG” time.
Doug Glanville in the NYTimes:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“But before we get self-righteous, we should look in the mirror and ask ourselves whether exposing A-Rod, or any player for that matter, is worth stepping all over rights, privacy, confidentiality and anonymity.
There is a lot of outrage out there about Alex. Not surprising. But what really surprises me is the lack of outrage about how a confidential and anonymous test could be made public. We seem to gloss over the fact that these players voted to re-open a collectively bargained agreement in a preliminary effort to address the drug problem. When privileged information is shared it effectively hurts anyone who has expected privacy in any circumstance, just as when someone made Brittany Spears’s medical records public.
The 2003 test was only supposed to assess whether the number of players using performance-enhancing drugs exceeded a certain threshold. If it did, as part of the agreement, a full drug policy would be instituted in the following testing year. One that was more comprehensive with penalties. This was at least a step in the right direction.
So: if Alex tested positive then, but he hasn’t since (and Monday he stated that he’s played clean since joining the Yankees), maybe that program served its purpose as a deterrent. If we take the higher ground and talk about the greater good of the game, then why create trust issues between owners and players by allowing an agreement to be breached this way? It undermines any sense of cooperation.
…
I hope we learn how to keep our word. If the tested players had known up front that the results were going to be made public (or that there was even a chance that they might be), not a single one would have agreed to cooperate, and it has very little to do with hiding anything. It has everything to do with privacy. Being A-Rod should not change that fact.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....ville.html
A-Rod from 2001-2003: 161.7 games, 52 homers, 131.7 RBI and a .615 slugging percentage.
A-Rod’s other seasons: 149.2 games, 39.2 homers, 119 RBI and a .574 slugging percentage.
When taking into account the number of games played and the bandbox that he played in in Texas, the difference between his numbers is miniscule.
Wow, so you dig up a transparently disingenuous quote from the owner of a team that had IRod, Juan Gone, Palmeiro, Sierra, Caminniti, Galaraga, Mench, Velarde and on top of all those Kenny Rogers throwing tar balls. Please be my guest he has HUGE CREDIBILITY when it comes to owning a clean team. HUGE.
And if steroids work, hop on em, Pete!
It’s unfair to say steroids works because A-Rod hit more homeruns playing 81 games in Arlington at the peak of his career
Captain maybe part of it is that when Andy used HGH he was playing for the Yankees. Arod was with the Rangers in 2003. I don’t really care if the Yankees make a statement or don’t make a statement. Heyman said he talked to members of the Yankee organization today and Arod said he was in touch with them. They wanted Arod to tell the truth.
I am seriously over this. I want Arod to do well as a Yankee. His legacy will be decided by other than us.
PLAY BALL!!!
(What I find interesting is the number of players who feel that Arod was singled out and that it was unfair and that the names of all of the players should be out there.)
Just for fun, I ran Tom Hicks’ statement through google translator and it came back:
“Wow, I still feel like an idiot for giving Arod that contract. Alex, thanks *again* for that opt-out, you saved me millions!”
As many smart people have been saying on this blog, this is SOO SADISTIC. Guys, it’s been a pleasure to watch this guy for the last 14 years. So I just don’t understand the pleasure of watching this kind of confession off the field.
I’ve had enough.
stats are misleading beacuse AERod juiced or HGH EVERY year
Trish, if you’re around, what did Heyman say? Maybe they’ll repeat it later…….
Eh, I don’t care what Rob Neyer has to say. Kay, Francesca, Neyer – they all wanted Alex to own up. When he does, they don’t believe him and then they start looking for reasons to knock him. Whatever. The important thing is that A-Rod feels better about himself. If this lifts a burden off his shoulders, than that can only be a good thing. I hope he takes the position that the mediots can’t bother him – they’ll say what they are going to say, but he has the option of ignoring them.
Apparently, per Harold Reynolds (who spoke to Alex), Alex has spoken to several teammates today. It looks like he is going to get the support from his teammates, which is crucial to anyone in this position. If they support him, does it matter what anyone else thinks?
I’m not sure what to make of the Roberts stuff – I didn’t catch it, but if Alex is really upset at her, I don’t blame him. That actually makes him even more human. Celebs are usually expected to sit there and take any sort of abuse from these trashmongers.
It’d be NO different… is what I meant to say.
Ack. Clearly, this place is getting to me and I need to go do something constructive, lol.
Alvaro Fernandez
February 9th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Hey Pete, you seem like a fat toad to me and am pretty sure you have been one for many years. I’m pretty sure you have tried a lot of things to lose weight. Do you remember diet, fat burners, exercises you did back from 2001 to ‘03? Now, if you went to a psychiatrist to accept your obesity did you have a prescription for your anti depressants? What anti depressants were they?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is hysterical…i am literally laughing out loud
I choose my words carefully, and A-Rod apologists it is. I frankly don’t care that much about the before versus after stats. The situation is sad and pathetic, like it was with Palmeiro, Clemens, et al.
Baseball needs some kind of purging. I don’t have the answer, but this has become a joke. I’d start my removing that clown, Bud Selig.
Maybe it’s time to focus on Little League baseball — assuming the kids aren’t juicing too.
Wow, this place is becoming a war zone
What Arod should have done back when…
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.....;p=2114762
Nick I didn’t realize that Google translator translated a-hole to english. You have know idea how much this will help me here in Jersey.
Who speaks better to the media A-Rod or Mr. President Obama???
Rishi -
Thanks for linking/posting the Glanville article. Great read.
You need to take parks into account…. playing in Yankee Stadium as a RH is going to make his HR totals come down a little bit.
Has anyone looked at the list of players that were in Texas in 2001. No wonder he started
Pudge
Palmero
Kapler
Ken Caminiti
Those are just the ones that were strongly suspected of using.
You know, the post way above that roids and HGH dont help you hit … duh, the ball goes farther because you are stronger. sure there needs to be basic skills in place. But how come Giambi batted .342 one year? grounders to short get past the shortstop. liners at an outfielder go over his head for a double. flyouts to the track become homers.
if it doesnt help, why do millionaire ballplayers risk using an illegal drug? what is the answer? it’s because it does help.
what a pleasure to have a President who speaks complete, coherent sentences.
Wow, you guys are killing Pete… by the way can someone give me a link to Sam’s blog…
Sam was like the cool substitute teacher, nothing against Pete.
Pete’s a pretty cool guy, he quotes stats and doesnt afraid of anything.
so rodg
still waiting for your answer. Is hgh a steroid?
Betsy, Heyman was great about it. He gave Alex nothing but credit for coming forward. I just read his column on SI and this was basically the gist of what he said on MLB TV.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1
John Heyman is Scott Boras’s media arm.
Trisha, you know that Heyman is a mouthpiece for Boras right?
He’s nailed every single one of Boras’ FA clients so far this winter.
Anything that comes from Hayman comes from Boras.
Pretty sad reading some of you defending Alex. You can be a die-hard fan and still call a spade a spade. How can you believe a word Rodriguez says. He lied in the Couric interview., what is to stop him now. Do you really think he did’nt know what he was using? That’s just sad. I have no respect for Alex but that doesnt change my love for the pinstripes. We root for the logo on the front of the jersey not the name on the back.
God, Pete, have you ever heard of controlling for other factors? The fact that you would blithely assert that roids made the difference, without providing a proper analytical foundation, exposes your prejudice and hatred.
Beat me to it Tom
it is a matter of ONE click on baseball-reference to neutralize stats, so that park factors are gone.
2000: .315/.418/.606
2001: .314/.395/.613
2002: .292/.383/.608
2003: .288/.384/.582
2004: .287/.376/.513
2005: .333/.434/.635
2006: .284/.384/.511
2007: .319/.427/.654
2008: .305/.395/.574
04 and 06 were down years, but the rest are right in line with each other.
“still waiting for your answer. Is hgh a steroid?”
No. But neither are amphetamines, and those boost your performance too. And have been a part of professional sports for 40+ years.
gammons shows the couric clip then asks: in your mind, that wasnt a lie?
ar:you know at the time peter, i wasnt even being truthful with myself. how am i gonna be truthfull with katie or cbs?
pg: you’re saying that the time period was 2001 to 2003?
ar: thats pretty accurate, yes.
pg: and what kind of substances were you taking?
ar: peter thats the thing, it was such a loosey goosey era that…i’m guilty for alot of things, im guilty of being neglegent, naive, not asking all the right questions and to be quite honest, i dont know exactly what substances i was guilty of using.
these are lies people, any kid could tell you that. he lied over and over throught the interview. its increadible. and ill bet he used the word honest about 25 times while he lied over and over.
When does ST start again???? SOON isn’t SOON ENOUGH!
We now have to resort to people toggling statistics to make a point. I really hate when people do that and Pete, you should be ashamed of yourself for doing that.
And to Tom Hicks who, like most other owners, turned a blind eye to what was going on in the locker room: You should SHUT your PIE HOLE and stop embarassing yourself any more than you have already done.
Joltin’ Joe,
This thing is taking up valuable TV show time. And if he took out all the “uhhhs”, he’d be done by now.
so who is to say 100% of players aren’t using hgh since they cant test for it? alex being one of them.
pokey
he is the man…someone just asked him about arod
haha, Tom Hicks shocked that one of his players used steroids is like George Steinbrenner being shocked that Derek Jeter is a ladies man.
i think arod did a lot of good today. this has been one hell of a week with the torre book and arod’s positive test.
i’m glad both things have happened because there has been a clearing of the air and it feels like a healthier situation.
as i said before earlier today , this may actually energize this yankee team by bringing them closer as a team.
alex is not out of the woods yet though. i expect he’ll be interviewed at some point by legal authorities. maybe even novitzky himself.
just in case the leak to selena roberts was from novitzky’s legal team , it would be especially smart not to go after selena roberts because it would tick off novitzky.
whatever he feels, there’s alot of reasons why arod has to not say anything more about roberts.
he has to let it go.he’s got other stuff more important.
wow, obama just commented on arod. basically said it’s a bad message to kids, but he’s glad baseball is doing better at addressing the problem.
Michael Kei, here are the addresses Sam gave:
“I hope all of you will continue to read my columns in The Journal News (you can always find my stuff at http://www.lohud.com/borden) as well as check in with the FACEOFF blog that I do with Rick Carpiniello (faceoff.lohudblogs.com).”
Joe,
He’s a long-winded moron like every other politician. Him taking a question about baseball after preaching economic ruin all week is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen, aside from someone actually asking him the question.
Doug Glanville has always been a class act. Had the pleasure of seeing him play for the Philies. A University of Penn grad as well thus a smart man. If you think this column was good go back and read his prior op-ed which is also a must read.
A-Rod discussion is everywhere. Even the Presidential News Conference..
Why would Hicks be pissed?? Arod actually tried to be all he could be (and more, by juicing) for the Rangers….
Great article by Glanville – really sums it up well
Does anybody think Igawa could improve as a pitcher by juicing???? Might be worth a shot!! (Get it, shot??)
Hicks is just trying to put a spin on this. “Oh my god, one of my players used steroids????” When all along he KNEW something was going on with the 5-10 guys who were “bulking up” before his very eyes.
Release all the names and let’s move on. Otherwise, this will drag on with leaks of names.
Arod failed the test, Selena Roberts reported it.
At Spring Training, Arod should do what Andy did, make a statement, answer questions and refuse to discuss it for the rest of the year.
It is hard to believe Arod did not know what he was putting in his body.
I have been a Yankee fan since 1956 and have seen many games and have never booed Yankee players. I think many fans will treat Arod the same way that they did in the past-get a big hit they will cheer, fail in a big spot and he will be booed.
I like the blog, but your attitude towards arod vs giambi in the same situation is embarrassingly obvious. You like Giambi because he is outgoing and has some good jokes and Arod is more reserved. We get it.. Your bias is extremely apparent. Except one has excelled without peds, and one has fallen apart without peds.
Texas stadium as a measuring stick for performance? I remember you once wrote that good reporters investigate information and don’t just regurgitate(sp?) it.. I guess do as I say, not as I do, eh? Piss poor reporting.. And yes, I agree Alex deserves what he gets, but he doesn’t deserve unfair, obviously biased reporting.
I hope that use of statistics wasn’t intended to be taken seriously… but it wasn’t quite over the top enough to be recognizable as parody.
Tom Hicks’ hurt feelings, however, qualify as self-parody.
Trish, thanks! It was a good piece by Heyman……..I don’t think he’s looking for perfection from Alex like so many mediots are.
I love Obama, but commenting on A-Rod? Oy vey – not the thing to do at this moment
Wow. You just lost a reader, Pete. I’m not sure if you could have posted anything more clearly biased.
The numbers alone don’t tell the whole story. It’s easier to talk about if you break his career up into 3 parts: Seattle, Texas, and New York. It also helps to look at it on a 162 game basis because the argument isn’t about durability, it’s about whether or not it makes you a better player.
On a 162 game basis, A-Rod averaged 10.8 less HR/yr in Seattle than in Texas. He was 20-24 in Seattle and I can’t think of a single power hitter that reached their power potential before they were 25. Besides that, Seattle is a tougher park to hit in than Texas. A-Rod hit 2.8 less HRs/yr at home than he did on the road in Seattle. In Texas, he his 5.3 more HRs/yr at home. That’s an 8.1 HR/yr difference. Could the remaining 2.7 HR/yr difference fairly be attributed to his age or having to readjust after time off?
A-Rod averaged 8.3 less HR/yr in NY than in Texas. Although Yankee Stadium is harder on righties, A-Rod hit 2.4 more HR/yr in the Bronx than on the road. Still, that is less than the advantage he had in Texas. When this is factored into the equation, the difference is only 5.4 HR/yr. Could this difference fairly be attributed to the extra pressure he felt in NY or having to readjust after time off?
Without going too far into the slugging percentage differences, I’ll just bring up his home/away splits during his time in Texas. In 2001, his home SLG was 110 points higher than his away. In 2002, his home SLG was 153 points higher than his away. In 2003, his home SLG was 44 points higher than his away.
Pete,
There are two major weaknesses to your argument.
First, Rodriguez’ best seasons as measured by either EqAvg and OPS+ (both better indicators than the statistics you cited) were 2000, 2005 and 2007 (note: as measured by raw OPS his three best seasons were 1996, 2005 and 2007). That is, his peak offensive performances did not occur during the period in which he confessed to using PEDs. Of course, this means taking Rodriguez’ word that 2001-2003 were the only years he was taking PEDs, but that’s an assumption your argument also makes.
Second, since we can’t do a controlled experiment of A-Rod playing on PEDs and playing clean for the same seasons, the best we can do to try to quantify the impact PEDs may have had on his performance is to judge whether his performance during the years he confessed to using was significantly better than would have been expected had he played clean. To do so, we would need to take into account contextual information such as park effects, overall league performance, age, baseball maturity and typical career arcs in performance for similar players. Your superficial analysis does none of these things.
I’m not a statistician but in looking over Rodriguez’ career stats in BA and HR (I’m ignoring RBIs because they are too much influenced by factors external to the players individual skill, e.g., number of runners in scoring position), it’s not at all clear to me that either his numbers increased out of proportion during 2001-2003 in comparison to what he did in Seattle or New York considering he was moving to a very favorable hitting environment and was entering an age period (late twenties) when players typically reach their peaks.
I’m not trying to give Rodriguez a pass or dismiss PED use as irrelevant. I’m merely disturbed by facile analysis and naive use of numbers to support ideological arguments. We can’t intelligently answer the question of how PEDs affected Rodriguez’ performance and we don’t need to pretend that we can in order to agree that he engaged in unsportsmanlike behavior and let down his employers, teammates, opponents and fans.
woo-hoo bookmarked
stop hating on pete arod is a cheater pete is just the messenger of the truth that afraud is no jeter
Actually, I hope you were just trying to rile everyone up, Pete, and weren’t serious with this. If you were serious, then I’m out of here.
Pete, take it back! I love your stuff, but seriously, this is rediculous. I’m assuming that 100 other people have already pointed out the obvious difference hitting in Arlington and hitting in the Bronx. I mean….I dont even know what to say. That is some of the worst statistical story-telling I have ever seen. The comparison is flawed on so many levels, and I KNOW you know this. Very disappointing
arod hurt himself not anybody else.he is human,made a mistake,admitted it.
i would be more concerned with criminals who hurt other people or politicians who break the law,steal our money,invade sovereign nations every day.
arod donates more than any of us make in a lifetime.
he did a bad thing & will suffer for it.i believe he has a good heart but does not know how to fit in yet.
i am glad he admitted it so the low life reporters don’t have a story.
reporters who depend on others misery are classless.
gammons reports stories but he does it with class.
Pete posted statistics that have NOTHING to do with anything other than ballpark adjusted stats. Steroids did NOTHING for his stats…
who gives a rats but about it anymore?
the story is over,arod did the right thing & took the steam out of it.
let’s go yankees.
“Pete posted statistics that have NOTHING to do with anything other than ballpark adjusted stats.”
Wonder if all the yo-yo’s barking Ortiz’s name today will be screaming “ballpark adjusted stats” when/if his name comes up? Anyone think moving to a hitters haven and hitting in front of Ramirez may have helped him as much as anything?
clearly 2009 yankees is wearing googles shaded pinstripes hes as blind as all of you. if you ever have a moment of doubt arods a cheater just ask yourself what would tyler durden do?
Those stats are absurd, A-rod went from playing in a very hitter friendly stadium in texas to what is quite possibly the hardest stadium for any right handed hitter in baseball of course the power numbers are going to drop.
BB,
In your case I think he would use punctuation.
and apparently the first rule of arods fight club is we do not talk about steroid use….until he gets caught. so far jose canseco 3-3 way to go giambi, palmero, and arod. like francesca said lets inducte jose canseco to the hall of fme and keep arod out that cheating sob .. its what torre would have wanted as well.
Jeebus, Pete, at least do a tiny amount of homework. Who are you, Murray Chass? (The plural bias is not data.)
Take a look at the relevant park effects numbers, particularly lefty vs. righty. And change the frackin’ headline.
Thanks in advance.
We strongly believe there is no place in baseball for shoddy statistics of any type, and we support the efforts of statheads everywhere to continually improve the statistical analysis process.
Although we are disappointed in the mistake that Pete made in his post, I think that we all need to realize that Pete — like all of us—is a human being not immune to fault.
We support Pete, and need to do everything we can to help him deal with this statistical challenge and prepare for the upcoming season.
Peter: delete this entry and all the comments. It has no useful purpose.
Just like they should have done with the 2003 steroid test results.
Since they work I got a few Yankees that need some.
We believe in Alex!
“Peter: delete this entry and all the comments. It has no useful purpose.
Just like they should have done with the 2003 steroid test results.”
Agreed, these stats come across a little biased.
In case anyone is interested, I posted a breakdown on park factors (taken from B-R), as well as listed a few other stats, over at my blog.
http://forums.simcentral.net/blog.php?b=622
Not sure if it’ll really add anything extra to what’s already been said though (that it’s silly to say that A-Rod’s 3-years in Texas somehow proves steroids works).
There definitely are park factors. A-Rod’s seasons in Seattle were plagued by the fact that, well, he was a rookie. Hell, A-Rod’s most dominating year home run wise was probably 1999, where he hit 42 homers in only 129 games in Safeco Field which is a pitchers’ park. If you somehow could transpose that season onto the Arlington ballpark, he’d probably have 50 homers had he played a whole season.
That being said A-Rod clearly doesn’t need performance enhancing drugs, and his usage of them is more indicative of a league-wide epidemic and MLB’s inability to solve the problem.
That being said Hicks, the guy whose teams have had more cases of steroid usage than any other known cases, has no place talking about A-Rod when he had Juan Gone, Pudge, Raffy, Caminiti, and whatnot playing for him.
To all the posters who are complaining about Pete hating A Rod, why shouldn’t we hate him? Huh?
wow… just wow pete… I usually agree with you but…hands down the worst piece of “reporting” or “analysis” I’ve seen here