The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


These are the worst of times

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 09, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Nearly 100 college basketball games in the New York area were fixed by gamblers from 1947-50. The NBA was awash in recreational drugs in the 1970s and arenas were half empty. The NFL was little better than professional wrestling when it started, a bunch of goons pounding on each other.

But baseball never really suffered. Sure, the 1919 Black Sox fixed the World Series and Pete Rose bet on games. But those were isolated incidents that were quickly cleaned up. Segregation was a terrible stain on the game, but that was more the fault of society. Even lockouts and strikes were overcome.

Every time somebody tried to kill baseball, the sport got up and was better than ever. More people watched, new stadiums were built and great stars emerged.

Now we have the steroids, the scandal that won’t go away.

Consider this:

Barry Bonds, the greatest home run hitter in history, cheated.

Roger Clemens, the most outstanding pitcher of his generation, cheated.

Mark McGwire, the man who broke the single-season home run record, cheated.

And now Alex Rodriguez, who could have been the best ever, is just another cheater.

At this point, anybody who played the game in the last 15 years is guilty until proven innocent. Nobody gets a pass. Rodriguez is the most physically talented player in decades. If he decided he had to cheat, everybody else has to be a suspect. Don’t forget, there are still 103 names out there just waiting to be leaked.

Mike Mussina went from being bounced out of the rotation to his first 20-win season. Suspect. Mariano Rivera never seems to take a step back. Suspect. Derek Jeter plays every day. Suspect. Joba Chamberlain sure throws hard. Suspect. Two years ago you would bet your house on those guys being clean. Would you bet $20 now? You can’t be sure about any player, not even the supposed good guys. If you are, you’re hopelessly naive.

That is the legacy Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, A-Rod and the rest of them leave. Thanks to their lack of integrity, every player in the sport has become a suspect. If you go the new Stadium this season and watch somebody hit a home run, it’ll be in the back of your mind. How could it not be? Those players who are clean must be furious.

There is no easy solution. But Kenesaw Mountain Landis threw the Black Sox out of the game and Bart Giamatti did the same to Rose. Maybe scorched earth is needed again.

Forget 50 games. One strike and you’re out for life. Scare the determined cheaters by saving samples for re-testing as methods improve. It’s ridiculous that Michael Phelps got three months for a bong hit and A-Rod gets zippo for using Primobolan and testosterone.

It’s hard to believe Rodriguez tried steroids once in 2003, on the advent of formal testing and two years after signing a record-setting deal with Texas. It also stands to reason that he continued using, given that 2003 was his first MVP season. Rodriguez will become the face of the Steroids Era, the symbol of what went wrong in baseball. Brilliant move by Hank Steinbrenner to overrule Brian Cashman in 2007 and allow Rodriguez to return to the team after he opted out. The next nine years should be a real picnic.

Commissioner Bud Selig and MLBPA chief Don Fehr and Gene Orza made this mess by looking the other way for so many years, enabling A-Rod and his cheating peers. Now only they can fix it. Or perhaps the sport needs new leadership.

Baseball has overcome bad times before, but this will be the greatest challenge.

————

Now seems like a good time to take the temperature of the people. Vote in the poll over to the right if you would.

I’m off to Tampa in the morning and will be blogging en route.

 
 

Advertisement

371 Responses to “These are the worst of times”

  1. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    So you’re saying now would be a good time to sign Bonds?

  2. zeusrule February 9th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    Pete’s back.

  3. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    12:01 indeed!

  4. Whatever February 9th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    I know what you’re getting at, but if Mussina was juicing it sure didn’t help his velocity much.

  5. Bronx Jeers February 9th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    So far, “I don’t believe” is winning?

    Hey I’ve argued about the motivation of the reporting but the bottom line is this reporter has her neck on the line. Gotta think she crossed her t’s and whatnot.

    Welcome back Pete. I’m all for the 1 strike and your out idea.

  6. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Welcome back, Pete.

    I’ll vote for 2.

    I was shocked.

    Thank God for Derek Jeter.

    Everyone is suspicious, but Jeter gets like what, 10 HR a season? If I find out that Jeter didn’t play the game right, ugh, it will be a dark day for me.

  7. rackem February 9th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Welcome back Pete!!

  8. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    And where’s the auto-fill?

    “It was A-rod’s fault”

  9. Art Vandelay February 9th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    We’re all to blame. We all bought tickets. The owners were making money. Why risk killing the cash cow by having real testing and by punishing players? How can a clean player compete if a lot of the other guys are “living better through chemistry?” There was too much money in the room from ticket sales, television, and merchandise and it had a corrupting effect. This isn’t only a Yankee problem, it just so happens to be another A-Rod problem, it’s a baseball problem. We will see 103 other players distributed fairly evenly across the league’s 30 teams.

    But Pete, I disagree. This is a society problem. We’re a society that for much of the last generation has believed in shortcuts. Whether it’s getting rich off of dot-com stocks or real estate or borrowing our money to buy baseball tickets from China or using steroids to win MVP awards. We took shortcuts and the game, its fans, and America needs to look at itself in the mirror and ask if these shortcuts are really worth it.

  10. gianthinker (Sign Juan Cruz!!!) February 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    It sux but baseball fans are stupid if this surprises them. Everyone is suspect because bottom line is we just dont know. At least it was 2003 when he WASN’T A YANKEE instead of it always being the evil Yankees doing these bad things. Look, HGH is very difficult to detect so to be real ANYONE can be on it right now. Derek Jeter, David Wright, anybody.

  11. Bronx Jeers February 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Oops I read the graph wrong. Guess it’s time for bed.

  12. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Peter, soon we will hear about the erosion of freedom from the lawyerly types whom think that absolute truth isn’t as important as following the technicalities of the law. As if laws are always the right thing or allow the proclamation of the truth. They will argue that if Aroid used the 2 drugs in 2003, it’s not as important/fair that someone broke the terms of the confidentiality. One lawyerly type said to me, “what if you didnt pay your taxes and it was revealed to your employer at the time of a salary raise? Would you appreciate it?” That’s the mindset that gives comfort to the hoodlums, liars, cheats and baseball players.

    You are right on the money on this issue.

  13. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Ugh. Everyone is *suspect*.

  14. Shdw February 9th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    “…enabling A-Rod and his cheating peers. Now only they can fix it”

    Wow. I’m glad even the supposedly unbiased journalists wait for evidence before public conviction and hanging.

  15. MikeEff February 9th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    the face of the steroid era? c’mon -that’s just absurd. that will always be bonds and you know it

  16. gianthinker (Sign Juan Cruz!!!) February 9th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Honestly, who cares? If we all agree they are all suspect then we all agree they are all on even ground. It doesn’t change anything. If Arod and the Yankees win a championship I wont cheer any less or feel any way about it. We win. We win.

  17. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    It may stand to reason for some, but I’m not assuming that Alex has continued to use. It’s only a matter of opinion, not fact. Pete, you see it one way, I see it another. It’s ridiculous – you think Hank knew this was coming? Knocking the Yankees for bringing back an all-timer because now it’s found out he used in 2003? Talk about hindsight being 20/20 vision. Given your intense dislike of the guy, it’s just hard to take you seriously about this topic.

    Man, I just want to talk real baseball. When do pitchers and catchers report?

  18. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Bonds. Definitely.

    He has the record. First to be investigated (is witch-hunted a verb?).

  19. GreenBeret7 February 9th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Seems like someone is forgetting the cocaine blizzard that nearly buried baseball in the ’70s and ’80s.

  20. JP February 9th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    I can’t say this enough:

    I don’t care.

    Release the names, let the media sharks have their frenzy, and let’s play ball.

    Ugh.

  21. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    Corrected version. Peter, soon we will hear about the erosion of freedom from the lawyerly types whom think that absolute truth isn’t as important as following the technicalities of the law. As if laws are always the right thing or allow the proclamation of the truth. They will argue that if Aroid used the 2 drugs in 2003, it’s more importantthat someone broke the terms of the confidentiality rather than A-roid cheating and breaking the law by taking illegal drugs. One lawyerly type said to me, “what if you didnt pay your taxes and it was revealed to your employer at the time of a salary raise? Would you appreciate it?” That’s the mindset that gives comfort to the hoodlums, liars, cheats and baseball players.

    You are right on the money on this issue.

  22. gianthinker (Sign Juan Cruz!!!) February 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    MikeEff

    the face of the steroid era? c’mon -that’s just absurd. that will always be bonds and you know it

    ————–

    Right on the money.

  23. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here February 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Alex wishes he could opt-out of this scandal

  24. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Cheating has become so acceptable in modern civilization that people have a blase attitude about it: “lets just talk about baseball. Let’s just move forward. Everyone does it”. It’s time to clean up the game. We need a new sheriff for the commissioner’s office. Clean it up or get out.

  25. Shdw February 9th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    “S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here February 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Alex wishes he could opt-out of this scandal”

    He wishes the MLBPA did their job and destroyed the files years ago.

    And Pete is apparently a little bit to biased against A-Rod for me to take this seriously. I’m glad those 4 unnamed, anonymous sources are proof enough for everything nowadays.

  26. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Betsy,

    There are smart baseball people who didn’t want to bring Alex back.

    You could hear the relief in Cashman’s voice as he sang, “That ship has sailed”. You could hear it in Jeter’s voice when he said A-rod wasn’t a goner.

    Smart baseball people stayed away from Alex after he opted out. Despite what Boras says, there weren’t a lot of suitors.

    Yes, he’s a great producer and a difference-maker. But I think we’ve overlooked, ignored actually, how he affects a team.

  27. eric in queens February 9th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    All this BS goes to show what a great player Jeter is. Hes been tremendous for 12 years. And yeah, he’s declining–a perfectly NATURAL occurrence for a skinny shortstop in his mid 30s. I cant help but wonder if a-rods obsession to be better than Jeter led to his using PEDs. I think his comments in Esquire about Jeter were pre 2003.

  28. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    It’s highly unlikely that Aroid only took steroids once as a lot of people assume. Considering the addictive nature of the competitor, in general, it’s not a stretch that Afraud took it many more times. Ah yes, the face of baseball steroid use: Aflop.

  29. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Alex is twice the player Bonds is. Better fielder, better athlete, better base runner. He did things by the age of 30 that nobody had ever done. How can he not be the face of the steroids era? He supposed to be the guy who solved the problem.

    Meanwhile, Betsy, just consider this.

    Alex gets a huge contract in 2001. He’s set for life. Meanwhile in 2002, it become known that there will be survey test of every player. Are we to suddenly believe that in 2003 he decided to take up steroids for the first time? That is implausible.

    But let’s say he did. So he won the 2003 MVP (his first) and then said, “Well, I’m going to stop now.” That seems very unlikely.

    The drug he took was prized for two things: it’s lack of side effects and how difficult it was to detect. It also is very expensive. This isn’t Kirk Radomski sending crude anabolics to assorted scrubs. This was state-of-the-art PEDs.

    The whole thing stinks. You just can’t believe anything about these guys. If a guy with all the natural ability Alex has decided to cheat, then who didn’t?

  30. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    oops. Jeter said that Alex was a goner.

    And can I take back what I said about Cashman? randy l’s head will explode.

  31. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    Peter,

    Do you think A-roid reads your blog? I wonder if his dyed blond hair may have newly split ends? Oh my the humanity!!!

  32. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    That devastating news seemed hardly on A-Rod’s mind Saturday night as he kicked back in the 70-degree island air with his sexy entourage in tow and a personal butler waiting in his $15,450 suite above.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....on_in.html

    WTF is he supposed to do? Jump off a bridge? And who cares how much his suite is (rampant jealousy!) and if he has his entourage…….I didn’t bother clicking on the link as your bolded quote said it all.

    I hope A-Rod takes his punishment like a man and knocks the stuffing out of the ball this year, just to get the mediots all aggravated again. I love the idea of them getting ulcers over Alex.

  33. MikeEff February 9th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    fine pete, think whatever you like- but you might want to look up some of bonds stats from his early years..they are pretty impressive. but i dont think that has anything to do with it; bonds name has been synonymous with steroids for years. we don’t know how this will shake out.

  34. G. Love February 9th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Welcome back Pete. Great post.

    This has been a tough thing to deal with as a Yankee fan and an Arod fan.

    What I can’t wrap my head around is the bold faced lying when the question of PED’s in the game were brought up to him. I mean sometimes he wasn’t even asked if he used and felt compelled to tell people he didn’t use or need them.

    The bigger issue about baseball and the past 15 years is none of us know when it started or if it stopped.

    We’ll never know for sure.

    The game is tainted and the only way this goes away is if the fans of the sport and the media decide MLB is the WWF and we want our players to shoot up to be the “best”.

    With the availability of designer drugs that can go undetected on top of the fact there are drugs they don’t even test for, I have ZERO confidence that this game is clean right now.

    But go back a little further. Is it possible players juiced and took speed in the 70′s and 80′s to get an edge?

    I mean I look back at a guy like Rickey Henderson. He also started off a skinny little kid and then had a chest like Superman by the time he was on the Yankees.

    If you told me he juiced I wouldn’t be shocked. Could steroids and speed make him faster? I think so. So the stolen base king might also be a fraud.

    I know people will point to the shift in the power numbers from the 70′s, 80′s to the 90′s.

    But isn’t it possible that the drugs got better as the decades rolled by?

    I think it is.

    Not to mention that using amphetamines in baseball was considered normal for a very long time. They were putting pharmaceutical speed in the damn coffee for crying out loud.

    I think what I’m coming to terms with is this isn’t just a steroid era. This is a sport littered with a history of people using pharmaceutical advantages and it will never go away.

    I bought into the “clean Arod” story and I was stunned when this broke on Saturday.

    I’m a different fan today than I was before this. I can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

    These guys cheat. They’ve always cheated and as long as they find new ways and the testing is a joke they will continue to cheat.

    That’s baseball right now and if there are any true “clean” players out there, I weep for them…because no one will ever believe them.

  35. dino February 9th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    where is the evidence that proves Roberts’ story…..unlike the majority of the world so far, i will wait to label a-rod a steroid user until i see empirical evidence to prove he failed steroid tests….the report cited “sources” who wont reveal their identification…..i know tantron isnt a fan of lawyers and he’ll probably hate me for being in law school…but hearsay evidence which this is so far, isnt permissible in a court of law. The New York Times printed a story about john mcain having an affair w/ some lobbyist according to “sources”, and guess what it turned out not to be true…sometimes people have an agenda….im not saying he is clean, i cant know, but i choose to wait for proof of his use of steroids…….in regards to baseball in general, i played in college and roids were everywhere in my clubhouse, so im completely desensitized to the whole thing, i couldnt care less if all players were on juice, even jeter, its just baseball, entertainment …..personally even if turns out there is proof a-rod juiced, i hope he hits 50 hr wins the mvp and the yanks win the world series, it doesnt change anything for me in how i view baseball and in how ill root for the yanks….personally i hate damon and never wanted him on the yanks, but the front of his uniform has an NY on it, so i hope he does well for the teams sake.

  36. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    If this is true: **re: the above link:

    A-Rod certainly wasn’t getting the royal treatment back home – or in the Yankees’ front office.

    One Yankees official said the team has no intention of coming to the party boy’s defense, and general manager Brian Cashman has not returned reporters’ calls, which is no surprise, the official noted.
    “The ball is really in Alex’s court,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

    I’d be very disappointed. He’s a member of the team, just like Giambi. How do you not back him up? If the Yankees don’t do this, I will turn my back on this season with no regrets.

  37. SJ44 February 9th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Good points except for one thing:

    Selig, Fehr, and Orza can’t fix it. They are a big part of the problem.

    Until the sport has new leadership, you can’t begin to fix it.

  38. gianthinker (Sign Juan Cruz!!!) February 9th, 2009 at 12:36 am

    Here’s the thing. EVERY era had its thing. Whites only. Drinking in the dugout. Coke. Roids. Spit balls. Corked bats. Changing the mound hight. Changing the baseballs. All of these things were unique to certain time periods and greatly affected the defensive and offensive numbers off baseball. Now we like to say these guys are cheaters and ruined the game and hurt the stats. EVERY CHANGE DID! It doesn’t make it right but we’re being stupid keeping guys out of the Hall that BROUGHT BASEBALL BACK. Or saying they aren’t on the same level as others. Babe Ruth couldn’t last today with his scandals. Whitey Ford couldn’t last as a partier today. Mantle hit home runs drunk! He’d be put in rehab. The point is that there are advantages and disadvantages to each and every era in baseball. So lets get real. This is our game. Its built by cheaters and bigger than life personalities. Get use to it. Arod isn’t evil. He’s a guy who came up in the Roid era. He’s probably on HGH now. It doesn’t make it right but it is what it is. That doesn’t take away from all of the time and energy he puts into the game and his body. He’s taking batting and fielding practice for hours before the game. He’s watching film and other games when he’s not on the field. No HGH or Steroids push him to do that. Not saying he’s right because he’s not but lets wake up to the reality that Arod is not the devil and we should not be surprised by anyone having a finger pointed at them. Pointer or middle finger.

  39. Shdw February 9th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    It’s true that if the team ignores this and forces A-Rod to do everything himself then they are awful. Especially after they just helped Pettite and Giambi by backing them up. I absolutely refuse to believe this story until the list is released since unnamed sources don’t mean a thing but if it is true and nobody backs up A-Rod, the team should be ashamed of their behavior towards him.

  40. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    The strange thing is, there is next to no ideological diversity in the A-Roid story by professional sports writers. It’s all the same phony moralist nostalgia, “oh, years from now, how will we look back at this era of fake home runs and a league full a frauds? Even I believed, I was the last believer… but it turns out even I was fooled…”

    But, on the other hand, I’ve been a total nerd this weekend and reading fan baseball blogs, and the comments on this blog and the FANS want none of it. They are sick of the whole steroid story, and are asking all of the questions and cracking all the jokes that critical human beings crack.

    So what are the current codes of the sports writer? Because I’m sorry, but the idea that any professional sports writer, whose job it is to watch the game day in and day out and talk to everyone and anyone involved, can possibly have this scripted nostalgic reaction, “now, thanks to a-roid, the entire game has become a fraud. all the players are frauds, everything. all a big fraud. the only real thing, the sports writers,” — it’s just not reasonable.

    does anyone know anything about this selena roberts? i don’t, but i’m wondering if maybe she violated that code with the duke lacrosse story, and now this is what she’s doing to make up for it. because that coverage seems to be the complete opposite of this coverage.

  41. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Betsy,

    The Yankees can’t play point on this.

    Alex has to take the lead. Or rather, he’s playing the leading role. Boras, lawyers, and his marketing firm are directing the production. The Yankees are behind the scenes on this one.

    What are they supposed to say? “We support Alex in whatever this is?”

    They can’t say anything until Alex tells them whether he did it or not. And I’m sure they need to hear a definitive confirmation from the proper authorities.

  42. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Why would the Yankees come to his defense? Alex found out on Thursday that Sports Illustrated was onto him. He never told the team. Cashman found out when a reporter called him.

    The Yankees gave him $275 million and team officials have defended his behavior every step of the way. He at least owes them a heads up, doesn’t he? Have Boras call. Something.

    If I found out on Thursday that I was in some sort of trouble that could change my career for the worse and I didn’t tell my boss for 48 hours, they’d be furious. That is the case for all of us.

  43. Rebecca-Optimist Prime...Staying to Write the Story February 9th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    “It’s ridiculous that Michael Phelps got three months for a bong hit and A-Rod gets zippo for using Primobolan and testosterone.”

    So. (can’t-print-in-paper)ing true.

  44. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    I agree Betsy. Nice post.

  45. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    M, I just don’t agree (if that’s your implication) that Alex affects a team negatively. If other players are jealous of him and the $$ he makes, that’s their problem. I love Jeter, but he did a god-awful job in 2006. He’d previously supported Giambi, but what about Alex? Even though their relationship was strained at the time, he’s still the captain. A little public support would have gone a long way. There’s probably no point in arguing this because Alex polarizes people and we won’t likely agree.

    Pete, I’m still going by the assumption that Alex is clean currently. I am also perhaps naive, but I just won’t paint all players with the same brush because many are guilty. That’s just me…….I understand why others feel the way they do.

  46. Loricfrgaa February 9th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    “Rodriguez will become the face of the Steroids Era, the symbol of what went wrong in baseball. Brilliant move by Hank Steinbrenner to overrule Brian Cashman in 2007 and allow Rodriguez to return to the team after he opted out. The next nine years should be a picnic.”

    Here is the thing you aren’t weighing realistically enough. Fans don’t care nearly as much about the steroid issues as the media do. Now, I am completely disappointed in A-Rod and the fact that he used steroids. He was supposed to be one of the good guys who did it cleanly. But you know what? When he has 35-40 HRs and 125 RBIs and is leading the Yankees back into the playoffs again this October, do you think the Yankees fans are going to care more about winning in October or ARod’s steroid history? The Yankee fans want to see a winner. If the Yankees win, this story will take a backseat to that from the perspective of a Yankee fan. if ARod’s body all of a sudden breaks down like Giambi’s did and he becomes half the player he used to be, this will turn into a bit of a nightmare for the guy. But if he produces, the yankee fans won’t care. Trust me, over the last few years since the Giambi story broke, more Yankee fans were still rooting for him to hit that next homer than rooting against him because of ‘roids. His personality is certainly more likable than Alex, so that helped, but still, the point remains that on-field performance is what matters most to the fans.

    And do you really think that Rodriguez will become the face of the steroids era? This seems pretty naive. Barry Bonds is the face of the steroids era. He is arguable the greatest baseball player of all time, even perhaps better than Babe Ruth. Rodriguez is certainly an all-time great, but Barry Bonds was a much better baseball player than A-Rod. And you still don’t even know how this thing is going to play out. You can’t call him the face of the era right at the beginning of this leak. Perhaps he will give a Pettitte-like explanation for what he did and make it sound like it was a one-time thing. Sure, it wouldn’t be easy to believe him, but it would certainly make him slightly more redeemable than guys like Bonds and Clemens, who right now are much bigger faces of the steroid era. And “the symbol of went wrong with baseball”? Sheesh, calm down dude. Let’s wait for a reaction from aRod and the Yankees, at the very least, before saying he is the worst villain in all of baseballl over the last 20 years.

    As to the next nine years being a picnic, if the Yankees win the title over the next couple of years and ARod puts up his typical performance, it really won’t matter that much to the yankees or Yankee fans. Remember the problem with Giambi wasn’t that he was an evil guy for cheating. It was that the effects of his cheating quickyl turned him into a player that couldn’t hit nearly as well as his steroided body could, and who couldn’t field at all, and who couldn’t stay healthy. That was the problem with his long-term contract. If ARod’s body simialrly breaks down over the next couple of years, then yeah I will agree with you that this contract will be a nightmare for the Yanks. But if he stays healthy and does his usual thing at the plate and in the field, Yankee fans won’t care, and the Yankee organization won’t regret the contract.

    Regardless, he is going to be slaughtered by all non-yankee fans as well as the media for a long time. And there are already plenty of Yankee fans that didn’t like him before this whole story even broke, so even a large amount of Yankee fans will bash him for this. And he probably deserves that backlash. But if he produces on the field and the Yanks win, the Yankee front office basically won’t give a crap about this, and more Yankee fans will turn a blind eye to this as well. Because winning is more important to most fans than steroids. It might sound a bit depressing, but it is the truth. Think about it. Remember when Giambi hit those HRs in Game 7 against Pedro in the 2003 ALCS? Were any Yankee fans thinking “This is a travesty! He is a cheater!” Nope, they were thinking “Awesome! I hope he hits another one next time! Screw you Pedro!”

    Ok, so that’s not literally what all Yankee fans were thinking at that exact moment, but I think that conveys the idea I’m trying to express.

  47. CaptainsCorner February 9th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    It really is disgusting that Arod hasn’t even spoken yet and people are already saying that he is the face of the roids and he will never get into the hof….just because this woman said he did it. But if this happened to everyones king Jeter and he was accused EVERYONE would be saying I don’t believe it, there is no way and let him talk before we believe it. If anyone wants the Yanks to have a chance to win this year then they better have an open mind and be on his side. I guess when you are not liked by a lot of people…mostly because people are jealous of him that is what happens. Can we give the guy a chance to speak?!

  48. Justin February 9th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    I was dismayed when this news report about A-Rod came out. Despite his character flaws, I had always thought that one thing he would have prized above all was his own dedication to his accomplishments being the total product of his own talent and gifts. I am, however, so jaded from the revelations in years past that my disappointment and dismay doesn’t run so deeply.

    That said, if I ever read conclusive proof that Donnie Baseball ever juiced, I’d probably feel like crying.

    You know, it seems stupid to go into hand-wringing mode over this, with what has happened to and been revealed about the economy and the major and minor players who’ve influenced our fiscal health. There just seems to be a moral crisis in the upper echelon, because in some ways A-Rod and his ilk are no different from the other self-indulgent, vain, amoral millionaires whose misdeeds have recently come to light. Of course, then you realize that all A-Rod and company have ruined are their legacies.

  49. Scared of the Wall February 9th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    The 1 strike rule is a good idea but it will never happen, especially because the guys connected with steroids are the ones who sell the most tickets.

    Also, Ken Caminiti said that he thought as many as 50% of the league was using steroids. What if this steroid mess ends up being more widespread than anyone imagined? The Commissioner would have to give out lifetime suspensions to almost half the league, then who would be left to play the game?

    The Commissioner, owners, and players really dropped the ball by not nipping the steroid problem in the bud. They should have started the investigation back in 1988 when the Bash Brothers were dominating the sport.

  50. Baseball Fan February 9th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Pete, your post here was one the BEST I have ever seen. Keep up the superb work.

  51. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Betsy,

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but not very many people who know Alex like him.

    His teammates aren’t jealous of his money or his contract. They’ve got oodles of money himself.

    I’m not in the clubhouse, but I can imagine that he drives people nuts.

    It’s not about money or looks. It’s about what’s inside. And all the money in the world can’t buy respect.

    They like Giambi, they got his back.

  52. Ralow February 9th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    This is hypocrisy at its finest! No one gave a care back when all the home runs were flying out of parks and all these records were being broken. It was all enhanced by “live look ins” by ESPN Baseball tonight for every milestone breaking attempt. Now all of the sudden everyone is a cheater and we are better than them?? I agree that this is society’s fault. Everyone in every profession does what it takes to get that edge over the competition…even journalists. So why should there be some higher standard for athletes?? When you consider that there was ZERO chance of getting caught for baseball players, ask yourself why NOT do it if everyone else is doing it? Cuz if you don’t you will be shipped out the door faster than day old donuts.

    Let me ask you this: if a hitter on the juice hits a HR of a pitcher who is also on the juice, how is that really cheating?? I mean really? The playing field is level…so where is the advantage? Once it was found out that pitchers juiced just as much, if not more, than hitters, my whole outlook on PEDs changed.

    But my main point is that people in every profession on the planet do things to get an advantage over the competition in order to make that fame and fortune. It happens on Wall st., in government and politics, between news media outlets trying to be the first with the “scoop”, even between the mom and pop shops on the corner…but now all of the sudden sportswriters and fans are better than baseball players because they used something to gain that same advantage or at least keep up with their peers. I’m not saying using steroids is right, I’m just calling all this hoopla about baseball players “juicing” like it is…which is pure hypocrisy.

    But hey…it sells papers and gets clicks on your website!! So I guess it works.

  53. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    So because ARod may have failed a drug test 6 fricking years ago, and before testing started all the players of today are suspect. Sorry, that reasoning doesn’t wash. It was a different system there. What’s more, why is there gonna be a face of the steroid era? Are you going to make sure he is, Pete? Cause Bonds and possibly Clemens could both be going to court because of steroids (and whether they told the truth when discussing them). Further,

    I ask again, where were all the reporters when this was the story that needed telling? It’s funny watching so many who dropped the ball for so long running this witch hunt now. Actually it’s kind of pathetic that reporters and columnists think it’s fair and just to blame one or two or three for the actions of hundreds. In context, steroid use is gonna look a lot different than it’s looking in the ridiculous way the press is framing in so far after the epidemic. Let’s see if there’s a face of it then.

  54. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    Dino,

    With all of the resources Arod has at hand, including lawyers, why haven’t we heard a peep from his representation? If it isn’t true, why wouldn’t Arod stand up for himself? He has a lot to gain by suing SI and taking back his reputation. But instead of mounting a huge campaign to defend himself, he jets off to the Bahamas to drink Grey Goose and party with his “sexy” entourage. The innocent man doesn’t run away from his convictions, especially one that has as much to gain or lose as Aroid does. John McCain’s campaign swiftly refuted the affair accusations. I’m afraid you are being indoctrinated by Professor Klingman in the ways of the dark side.

    You have proven my point about public apathy towards cheating etc. with your personal baseball experience. It’s a very sad day.

  55. vinny-b (not an Arod apologist) February 9th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    “Brilliant move by Hank Steinbrenner to overrule Brian Cashman in 2007 and allow Rodriguez to return to the team after he opted out. The next nine years should be a picnic”

    it was an ignorant move, even before the steroid scandal. Further compounded by the fact he was given 10yrs/275million.

  56. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    Pete always says that fan-bloggers and fans shouldn’t be allowed in the clubhouse becasue they aren’t objective, and shouldn’t be professional sports writers, but what if fans are more objective than the professionals? waht if the professionals are paid not to be objective? Pete just posted a T-shirt that says A-Roid, and is telling us that the Yankees shouldn’t support their biggest player!!!

    i was on the blog ussmariner today, which i really love, and it turns out that they actually delete all posts about steroids. i have to say, i like that idea. the steroid story has to be the dumbest story ever. until you report that the players are suing some big pharma company for poisoning these players and ruining their careers, then i don’t want to hear any more of it.

  57. RyanM February 9th, 2009 at 12:51 am

    I usually disagree with you when you make these types of posts, but it’s hard to argue with any point you made. I completely agree with 1 strike and you are out, and the saving of test samples. Playing in baseball is a privilege, not a right. What harm is taking one blood sample at a random time during the year?

  58. G. Love February 9th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    Somewhere deep down I wonder if Arod is relieved to finally have to stop pretending he’s someone he’s not. I wonder if this relieves pressure for the guy.

    I wouldn’t bet against him having his biggest season ever in 2009 since he doesn’t have to worry about his legacy and his place in the game anymore.

    He can just be a skirt chasing home run hitting SOB rather than everybody’s all american hero.

    In a weird way, it might turn out to be the best thing that can happen to him.

  59. CaptainsCorner February 9th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    No one knows when the Yanks found out about all of this. Just because the all mighty NY media assumes that the Yankees didn’t find out about this until Sat. does not mean that is true. As we know a lot of things are printed that are not true.

    Also his teammates better be there at his press conference to support him. The #1 person better be Jeter. If he can do it for Giambi and Pettitte then he better be there for this one. Otherwise why be the captain of the team when you don’t have a voice or a face when the team needs one. I would also expect support for him from Posada, Mo, and Pettitte.

  60. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    Phil,

    I think the thing is that we thought Alex was the ONE. The clean guy that was going to take what was rightfully his, the title of True Homerun King. He was branded this way by MLB. That stinks, too. Did Selig know or not? Would he be around when Alex breaks it? If this info wasn’t leaked, would he make the same sour-lemon faces and look away as Bonds tied and surpassed Hank Aaron? Or would he have participated in the charade that Alex is the ONE.

    We are floored, and I suspect that Pete is, too.

  61. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    M, we’ll just agree to part ways here. I have no idea who or who does not like Alex – I find your comment to be a blanket generalization, especially as you don’t know what’s inside of Alex (I don’t either, granted, but I’m not making comments that almost no one likes him). He’s an insecure person, so am I – maybe that’s why I like him. All I know is that I am sure he has friends – it’s just sexy to hear from the media that no one likes him.

  62. vinny-b (not an Arod apologist) February 9th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Pete:

    props for reminding people, bringing back Arod was not a Cashman decision.

    As he does not need to be blamed for this.

  63. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Captains Corner:

    Brian Cashman told me that. That good enough for you?

    Meanwhile, when asked to comment, Hal Steinbrenner, Cashman, Levine and Girardi all took a pass. Not a word.

    It seems pretty safe to say they’re not too happy.

  64. Angel - Tales told by idiots, fully of sound and fury, signifying nothing. February 9th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    “It’s ridiculous that Michael Phelps got three months for a bong hit and A-Rod gets zippo for using Primobolan and testosterone.”

    ARod hasn’t got anything…yet. I think the *yet* part is rather important. This isn’t going away. It will cost him, in more ways than one.

    And correct me if I’m wrong, but weed is still illegal in this country too, isn’t it?

  65. m February 9th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Betsy,

    Sounds good. Sorry to bother you with it.

  66. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Arod has run away from his problems without defending himself or using his entourage of lawyers to protect his once pristine image. He must have figured that he is busted and what’s the point of making a Clemensesque type of defense. Only one word for the new face of steroids: GUILTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  67. Loricfrgaa February 9th, 2009 at 12:58 am

    “Alex is twice the player Bonds is. Better fielder, better athlete, better base runner.”

    Hitting is pretty important too.

    Bonds’ career OBP is .444. That is completely insane. A-Rod’s is .389. Impressive, but not even close to Bonds.

    Bonds’s career SLG is .607. Yikes. ARod’s is .578. That super-awesome, but Bonds still has him beat by a decent amount.

    Bonds stole 514 bases and was successful 78% of the time.

    ARod has stolen 283 bases and was successful 80% of the time. Ok so ARod is the better baserunner, but certainly not enough to say he is twice the player Bonds is. Or are you just guessing that ARod has taken two bases on a single hundreds of more times than Bonds has?

    At the very least, even if you don’t think Bonds was better than Alex, you can’t say ARod is twice the player Bonds is. It is not even close to the truth.

  68. Betsy February 9th, 2009 at 12:58 am

    I’m sorry you took offense to my comment M, just because I disagree with you. None was intended.

    It’s pretty sickening, by the way, to see an A-Roid shirt posted here.

  69. Angel - Tales told by idiots, fully of sound and fury, signifying nothing. February 9th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Its interesting to observe that people on all the blogs I read who have always made it clear that they’ve never liked Alex, before all this happened have all taken, almost to the letter – the exact same stance in reaction to this.

    Those who didn’t mind him prior to this have either turned on him, or tend to be people who have always looked at the big picture of the steroids issue anyway.

    Its kinda fascinating, actually.

  70. Scared of the Wall February 9th, 2009 at 1:01 am

    “It’s pretty sickening, by the way, to see an A-Roid shirt posted here.”

    Certainly a wee bit disappointing considering this is a Yankees blog. I would expect to see that sort of thing on a Red Sox blog.

  71. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    Didn’t Brian Cashman also tell you that getting Sabathia and Teixeira was a “fantasy.”

    Why do you think you’d get a statement before they were ready to give one?

  72. vinny-b (not an Arod apologist) February 9th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    Pete:

    I know one player who is clean. Chad Curtis.

    He is the NYY player (former or current) who i have the highest respect for. At least he stuck his neck out, and tried to take action.

  73. Angel - Tales told by idiots, fully of sound and fury, signifying nothing. February 9th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    Why would you need to put “not an Arod apologist” next to your name?

    Believe me when I say you have never been in any danger of EVER being accused of one.

    Sheesh.

  74. CaptainsCorner February 9th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    Pete,

    Thanks for the response. I thought that you were just assuming, like most of the media did when they reported it. Ofcourse the team isn’t happy about it how can they be. But I don’t think they can make a comment without first talking to Arod(who knows if they have already) and talking to MLB. The comment is only going to be we support him. There is really nothing else that they can say in public.

  75. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    And it’s also sickening that the team isn’t standing behind him and is fueling the fire with this “he didn’t tell us” bs.

    and it’s also sickening that the sports writer we all read is choosing access to the bs that comes out of cash’s mouth over journalistic integrity.

  76. CENTRAL CT YANKEE February 9th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    I personally don’t think A-rod gives a rats ass what anyone thinks….like everyone says he’s out for himself….He is still the best player in the game and will help the Yanks win games this year….The Yanks will win the Series this year

  77. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    good points phil

  78. vinny-b (not an Arod apologist) February 9th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    “It’s pretty sickening, by the way, to see an A-Roid shirt posted here”

    10yrs/275 million, is more sickening.

  79. m February 9th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Betsy,

    No offense taken. You said we’ll just part ways on it. The whole thing is sad, really. Wish it could’ve happened to a Red Sock. :)

  80. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Um, Phil, you see my job is to cover the team. So when something happens, I call people on the telephone to ask them about it. That is how it works. It’s really not that complicated to understand.

    Well, for most people.

  81. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 1:06 am

    The jeers for Arod will make Giambi’s booing look like a bush league. Giambi was a nice guy and respected by many but Arod is another story. The negativity he is going to produce is going to make it rough to play for the pinstripes. Also, if anybody is on the juice with the NYY, we might see some serous declines in production.

  82. Angel - Tales told by idiots, fully of sound and fury, signifying nothing. February 9th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    “And it’s also sickening that the team isn’t standing behind him and is fueling the fire with this “he didn’t tell us” bs. ”

    Well if he didn’t tell them, I can’t say I blame them being annoyed and not happy about it one bit. He should have told them, and given that why should they stand by him until he talks to them, and they know exactly what they’re dealing with?

    I can see their perspective. It,s put them in a very difficult position too.

  83. m February 9th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Pete,

    What is this? Good cop, bad cop? Great to have you back.

  84. no.27 February 9th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    So 104 people tested positive in the 2003 survey, how many people in all were tested?

  85. Ralow February 9th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Tantron,
    All booing and negativity towards A-Rod will stop after he hits 15 HRs in April again.

    People are only mad when you aren’t producing wins for your team…plus, I doubt we see any decline in production…why would we? The dude is in his prime and hasn’t tested positive for 6 years.

  86. dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    If these are the worst of times in baseball, i WOULD love to see what the best of times look like. The yanks have a broke records in attendance three straight years and Im sure they will do it again next season. The sport has NEVER made so much money as it does right now. And the commissioner is certainly reaping his reward by making 18 million dollars next season. That is more than almost every player in the game for what? Possibly being the worst one in the history of baseball.

    Good job selig – whats your next act? Torch all the stadiums and burn them to the ground. What a bafoon? Why should the players be punished if selig did nothing about it? Why should arod or any of these guys be punished if no one cared when they did it, there was no real rule against it in baseball and no one was punished. We have laws in this country that protect people from being punished for a crime that they committed when it was not yet a crime – so obviously, it is NOT a good idea to do something like that or at least the founding fathers thought so and they were pretty bright guys.

    So lets destroy baseball history by banning all of the games greatest players from the hall without even knowing who did and who didnt use? That is the solution the writers have come up with and of course, its an absolutely idiotic one. The only players that get published in this scenario are the ones that were ousted which just happen to be most of the best of the generation while the players in the slightly lower class get a free pass because their stature isnt as high but they probably also used.

    And since when was brian cashman completely against re-signing arod when he opted out? I dont remember cashman making the ultimatum. I dont remember cashman crying about it when arod tossed boras out of the negotiations and said he wanted to come back. Only now that people think it was a bad idea does cashmans name start popping up as the guy who never wanted arod back in the first place. Im sure cashman was all for the yanks signing joe crede who was probably the next best free agent third baseman. Yea, I remember cash screaming it from the roof tops. It is so convenient that once people think a player was a bad move, all of a sudden blame gets diverted away from cash every single time. Brilliant move guys.

    And arod carried the yanks to the playoffs in 2007. This teams offense is NOT strong enough to win a world series without arod contributing in a major way. If arod left the lineup right now and was replaced by league average talent, the lineup would drop incredibly in talent from one of the best to maybe in the top ten. So Im not so sure that the fact that he did roids in 2003 would make me start huffing and puffing about the yanks re-signing him last off season.

    Finally, the fact that everyone is deciding to take the guilty until proven innocent route regarding the length he took roids is soo typical in this society. Yea, lets just assume because the drugs are significantly harder to detect right now and because arod tested positive once in 2003 that arod has been using for more than a decade. I mean why would an assumption like that need the slightest bit of proof attached to it. I would say that is quite a big leap. It is understandable to assume arod did roids all of 2003 and maybe even all of his time with the rangers but to think that he has been doing it for more than 10 years based on one test is ridiculous. The drugs were not always this undetectable over the last decade and the risk has risen tremendously since 2003 as has arods status and constant criticism. Do you really think he would think it was worth the risk to continue using after all of the hearing and horrible publicity? I know the guy makes some bad moves but he is the biggest star in the game on the team that warrants the most attention from the media and the country. He is already hated by so many for no good reason.

    I find it hard to believe that he would continue to use knowing all of this in the back of his mind. Not to mention, while roids makes you stronger, it does NOT necessarily make you a better player. A lot of bad players have taken it and i DONT THINK any of them became the biggest star in the sport. Arod has tremendous talent and it is NOT because of drugs. One would assume that he wouldnt run this tremendous risk for a decade knowing that he could be one of the better players even without roids. Not to mention, he already was a millionaire at this point so its not like he needed to earn his paycheck. I just think this decision that he was using the whole is far, far too important to make without a single shred of evidence on hand. I mean not all of us can make huge decisions without any evidence like roberts can.

  87. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Dino, McCain’s campaign denied the affair swiftly and defended McCain. All I hear from Arod’s PR folks are crickets.

  88. m February 9th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    Furthermore, don’t underestimate how irritated Alex’s teammates will be re: this story, if it’s true.

    I think irritation, not jealousy, is the primary reaction to A-rod.

    No matter what, it always comes back to A-rod. The 225 lb gorilla in the room.

  89. m February 9th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    And don’t think they’re jealous of the attention they get. Most of the guys are under-the-radar guys. And they like it that way.

  90. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here February 9th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    So 104 people tested positive in the 2003 survey, how many people in all were tested?

    ======================

    1,198 players

  91. m February 9th, 2009 at 1:18 am

    correction: attention he gets.

    Doreen,

    Watching the grannies now. It’ll be sad to see Whitney in such a state.

    Whenever I hear Beyonce or Mariah, or hear another diva do the National Anthem, I tell the kids, “See how good a singer this is? She’s got nothing on Whitney Houston.” Just a sad, sad loss to music.

  92. Summer February 9th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    I miss Sam already.

  93. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    Pete,

    Then why was it so hard for you to understand that the Yanks were opening a new stadium in April and there was a damn good chance they were gonna go for Sabathia and Teixeira. I mean, you cover the team and couldn’t do the simple math?

    And in your opening post you speculate about Mussina, Rivera and Joba, if in a clumsy exaggerated way, but since you cover the team and are in the clubhouse wouldn’t you have tracked it down if there was a roids story involving any of them?

    Oh wait, you haven’t broken a roids story about anyone. And given that you haven’t lifted a blackberry to do any of your own investigating why are you now proposing a one strike rule? The press could have gotten the roid thing cleaned up long ago, but they didn’t and moralizing now doesn’t make reporters any less complicit in the era of the roid than they’ve always been – too happy to report the homers and completely unmotivated to question the homer explosion.

    And I agree with those who don’t think and A-Roid t-shirt belongs here. You’ve always been a portrait of passive aggession with your snide comments about ARod, and I suspect the reason you are up late now chatting is because you’ve been energized by the witch hunt you support

    So you’re fired up now, Pete. And you’re a baseball reporter and this is your job. Go find the rest of the names and then see if you can make better sense of this. Seriously, got get em, tiger.

  94. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:22 am

    Hey, how about we bring back espinoza to play 3rd?? then we can restore the game to purity!!

  95. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 1:24 am

    btw, at least 136 players tested positive. There were two labs and 8.8% were positive by the standards of 2003 testing.

  96. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Is anyone watching Ex-Yankees vs. Ex-Yankees here on MLB network?

  97. dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    It makes sense that if he won the mvp, he may continue but its hard to believe without proof. Especiallly, considering a lot changed in his life after 2003. He basically became the face of baseball, jointed the most scrutinized team in baseball, was shoved under a microscope for every little thing he did, became a guy that a lot of people seemed to not like (or want to hurt, i DONT know why) and all the stuff that changed about roids in baseball. In 2003, it still seemed like very few people cared compared to now. bonds and clemens both left the game in shame and testing for roids became a regular part of baseball. Im pretty sure arod noticed the type of scrutiny and severe punishment that users like clemens, bonds and mcgwire were forced to endure. And arod actually cares a great deal about his public image – all of this would be reason to assume that he would have stopped after 2003. Just because he won an mvp is the only reason to think he would continue but one would also have to consider just how much else changed. And if he continues to use – that would lead people to assume he is still using because when did he stop? I seriously doubt he used for 10 plus years. You really, really need proof to even think that way.

  98. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    or future yankees?? whatever.

  99. PAT M. February 9th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Pete your a man of great tolerence and extreme patience….Man we were having the best off season since 2000….

  100. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    And especially considering that LIARS kept the test, i.e. they LIED when they kept the test.

    So why do we suddenly trust a bunch of LIARS to tell us what to believe about the game we all love? If they lied and sacrificed the anonymity of the test, if they lied and kept the results… why do we believe they aren’t lying now?

  101. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 1:30 am

    So is it safe to say the healing hasn’t begun yet?

  102. Boston Dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:33 am

    Pete,

    Not sure if you saw SJ44′s prepared speech for Alex yesterday but any chance you can get a copy of it and send it off to him?

    Do you have a prediction as to how ARod will handle this (deny, admit guilt, pass the blame, etc) ?

  103. Cindy February 9th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    It’s 2009 now. SI dug up 2003 report and focused on A-Rod. Just cruious,what happen to other 103 players? SI should list all of them. Let union, league deal with this problem once for all. I do not want to see the same topic in winter.

  104. gdamac February 9th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    This is why I don’t care. And if baseball really cared they would say if test + and you’re out. Period. Just like gambling. But they don’t, because they don’t care nearly as much.

    They should declare a past amnesty, because everyone did them and there were no real rules. But moving forward institute a 0 tolerance policy.

  105. Giuseppe Franco February 9th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    In all honesty, it’s in the Yanks’ own best interest to support A-Rod as much as possible.

    Whether they like it or not, they own him for the next 9 years – through good times and bad.

    It doesn’t make any sense to destroy the guy because they are still going to need him.

  106. dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:36 am

    I think people that are outraged by this have to get off their high horse and realize that what we are witnessing right now is not the users but the people that are being portrayed as the big, bad guys in baseball. This is all some sort of trick to make fans think that this mess is being cleaned up when in reality it is only making things worse for the people that love this game. It is really a tragedy that this commissioner is so terrible at his job that he decided to ignore the problem and profit from it for decades and then, when the cat was let out of the bag many, many years after roids was engrained into the culture, selig decided to pawn his job off on he government who has as usual done their craptastic, horrific version of cleaning up baseball. I think this problem was better off left ignored. YOU CANNOT DIG UP THE PAST in a problem like this. It has just turned into a god foresaken mess. If selig was actuall smart and good at his job and atually had a decent head in between his shoulders, he would have just instituted mandatory, random testing with HUGE fines to stop players from doing it in the future and that is that. This whole witch hunt is getting nasty, wasting time and money and destroying the sport for the fans. iSNT THAT the point of baseball? To me an american pass time to get away from real life troubles. It went from that to a huge mess for no good reason. I think selig had been so terrible, he should just be fired already. He cannot redeem himself at this point. If any one in baseball deserves to have their name dragged through the mud and go to jail it is him. What a disaster he has been.

  107. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 1:37 am

    Phil:

    I’m trying to respond to your post but I don’t understand any of it. What do Sabathia and Teixeira and the new Stadium have to do with anything? I never mentioned them.

    I’ve also written here and in the paper that the media was complicit in all this. We all screwed up royally.

    I use an iPhone, not a Blackberry. Mac all the way.

    And I’m energized by Diet Coke and being able to blog for the the first time in a week.

    But beyond that, you’re exactly right.

    Yikes.

  108. Boston Dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:42 am

    “In all honesty, it’s in the Yanks’ own best interest to support A-Rod as much as possible.”

    I agree with this. Alex doesn’t deserve their support. However, what else can they do? Turn their backs on him and watch $275M flushed down the drain?

    It sucks… but at the end of the day they need this guy to repair his image as much as possible and play well.

  109. E-Man February 9th, 2009 at 1:43 am

    That poll needs another option “Pissed off” because that’s how I’ve felt the past few two days.

  110. Steve in Scranton February 9th, 2009 at 1:45 am

    “Alex is twice the player Bonds is.”

    I disagree with this statement. When Bonds looked like an Ethiopian, he was a better player than a juiced ARod. Bonds is the best player of this generation, even if you take away his post-2000 seasons.

  111. RSM February 9th, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Welcome back Pete.

    I’m guessing you’ve been chomping at the bit given your fire and brimstone. May I politely suggest you don’t have any more Red Bull tonight!

    Seriously, the whole steroid discussion is a very complicated issue. I’m still amazed at how shocked people are by these illuminations. Guys have been juicing since the 80′s (and maybe earlier in small numbers). Lenny Dykstra was juicing in the majors before AROD went through puberty. Am I really the only person that saw this??

  112. RSM February 9th, 2009 at 1:51 am

    If Bo Jackson wasn’t juiced I’ll eat my shorts.
    Lenny Dystra had acne at 30 years old.

    Really, no one else noticed these things?

  113. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 1:51 am

    Is the new Springsteen on the I-quipment yet?

    I only brought up the Sabathia and Teixeira thing because it illustrates that you and others don’t always get the straight dope out of Cash. And because you said, more then once that the Yanks wouldn’t get Teixeira and, behold, they did.

    I think the Yanks will eventually do the smart thing and protect the next nine years of their investment by supporting ARod. They’d also be wise to question why the leaked results are mostly Yankees. There are 135 more positives from 2003 and they couldn’t all have been on the Yankees 40 man roster.

  114. uncle Ellsworth February 9th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    McGwire just hit a 538 ft HR. in the Randy Johnson 19 strikeout game.
    Watching this game is eerie.

  115. RSM February 9th, 2009 at 1:57 am

    Hey, on a lighter note…

    Sammy Sosa was juiced AND corked his bat.
    Now that’s super duper cheating!

    Sorry guys, I’m tired and getting a little silly. Thought maybe we should try to laugh just a little. Afterall, this is not life or death.

  116. Scared of the Wall February 9th, 2009 at 1:58 am

    RSM, I for one am not shocked. The MLB never did anything to curtail steroid use until recently so it’s no surprise that some players were trying to get an edge if the league wasn’t going to discipline them.

    In A-Rod’s case specifically, he was always rumored to be involved with steroids and Texas was a steroid hotbed when he played there, so that was not surprising to me either. Saddening and disappointing, yes, but certainly not beyond the realm of imagination.

  117. dave February 9th, 2009 at 1:58 am

    I love how we have not seen any proof and We have not heard the name of a single accuser regarding arods use and people are ready to watch his career and life burn at the stake.

    I love how this report is from 2003 and its 2009.

    I love how these were supposed to be sealed documents and anonymous documents and laws were certainly broken in order to get this thing published yet no reporter seemed to notice or care.

    I love how 100 names on a list turned into an entire article about only arod.

    I love how the best off season the yanks have had in over 10 years ends like this.

    I love how not a single redsox player this century has been convicted in the court of public opinion for doing anything involving roids.

    I love how the government has these documents under their possession for god knows how long and did absolutely nothing with the information until a writer came along to ask about a story for arod and then, they divulged the names.

    I love how arod is already being convicted of doing roids for his entire career and some media are already saying he will not get their vote for the hall of fame without single a single shred of proof- unbiased and objective certainly went out the window on this story.

    I love how the woman who published this story is writing a book that discusses how horrible a person arod is and she is the same one that led the media against the duke lacrosse team which implies that not only does she have a personal vendetta against arod but she is also completely irresponsible in her reporting and does not need evidence before she is convinced of something.

    I love how the commissioner supported and profited from roid use for years and now, he is not only still employed as commiss but one of the richest men in baseball while the players whos backs he road to fortune are having their reputations destroyed.

    I love how american tax dollars are being spent on an investigation into roids use in baseball which Im sure 99.9 percent of america does not want.

    I love how baseball is supposed to be a way to get away from life’s problems and now, is becoming one of life’s problems.

    I love how congressman have the time to waste to deal with something like this while the commissioner of baseball has not spent a single, solitary second dealing with this problem in his career.

    And finally, I love how using roids was not even against the rules and guidelines of baseball and was almost an accepted practice early on and now, people are acting like arod committed a double homocide. Who did arod really hurt outside of himself in all of this? i would think people would be more outraged about a player charged with a DWI or marital abuse than taking drugs to try to impove his game. And name one person who went from a nobody to a baseball superstar after using roids?? It has not even been proven that people become better players across their career after taking roids as it probably does more harm to your body than help to your game anyway.

  118. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:03 am

    And I love the Yankees.

    The only thing I care about is that they take care of business on the field.

    Dealing with this will be a little more challenging than laughing off The Yankee Years.

  119. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 2:04 am

    Dave, my man, you need to calm down. This too shall pass. You’re getting all worked up and trying to fill up the internet again.

    I don’t suppose I can suggest a valium? No, that would be bad.

  120. RSM February 9th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    “I love how baseball is supposed to be a way to get away from life’s problems and now, is becoming one of life’s problems.”

    Dave, that is a profound quote.

  121. Steve in Scranton February 9th, 2009 at 2:06 am

    Bill Madden wants us to ditch Alex and eat the $270
    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....to_-2.html

    That would be a bold statement.

  122. WilG February 9th, 2009 at 2:06 am

    The Worst of Times? For who?

    With all due respect Pete, I think your post tonight was a little over-dramatic. Several folks have already pointed out that, unlike the other sports analogies you mentioned, it is hard to see how one more superstar testing positive is going to roll back fan interest across the country. If fans accepted the post Bonds, Clemens, Canseco, Mitchell Report, legacy and will still come out during a terrible recession I am not so sure #13 has the power to stop any or all of that.

    Is this a rough time, sure? The waiting hasn’t helped, but how about a little perspective?

    Yankees fans (and the press) will have wait to hear what ARod eventually says. I think the public reaction will be mixed and complicated – just like everything else with ARod.

    I bet Cashman and the organization are pretty annoyed tonight but the lessons of the last few years are clear: Be careful with public comments once the spotlight is turned on you. As bas as the court of public opinion is, a federal court is a lot more serious.

    Bonds and Clemens aren’t in serious legal trouble because they tested positive. If they were there would be a lot more guys in trouble. Those two (especially Bonds) are threatened by federal prosecutors because their denials risk perjury charges. Does anyone imagine that Boras isn’t working to anticipate potential meetings with federal prosecutors and/or member of Congress? ARod and his folks right now are probably making sure they can steer clear of that trouble (as much as possible).

    It really stinks to sit here as a Yankees fan and twist in the wind as this develops, but the reality of this hypocrisy is that serious consequences happen with the lying and denials after the fact.

    Good times? No – not really at all. I think a lot of us were excited about spring training and this club.

    Let the story and season move forward. If folks want to take sides and use the ARoid nickname (or icon) that is your decision, but it strikes me as very angry.

    I think a some us that have already come to terms with the fact that baseball was juiced for 15-20 years and don’t have that same venom anymore. (That doesn’t make us like it – just too tired to get all angry again). I guess maybe that anger makes sense if we still believe some of the best players didn’t take advantage of that system.

    Am I sad, disappointed, bummed to be not talking about CC-Wang-Burnett-Pettite-Joba? – you bet. Is this the worst of times for the sport? Only when we seem to be in the middle of Groundhog Day here.

    Play Ball already, but please save yourself the anger and indignation when we learn the names the other 100+ players.

  123. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:07 am

    just noticed the poll. needs another answer for sure. how about, “so sick of the steroid story i want to get some steroids myself and start knocking some people out”

  124. Mr. Goodkat February 9th, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Pete, this blog post seems overly negative.

    Arod will not be the face of the steroids, that will be forever linked to Boss. AROD is probably no longer the “one” who will lead the MLB out of the Dark Ages, but I don’t see him as the poster child for steroids. To put it simple, steroids did not make AROD, it’s 6 years later and the guy still crushes the baseball. Jason Giambi sucked after he got off the juice like many others. Steroids made Giambi. AROD is still a great player. One who made a mistake and probably didn’t need the edge that steroids bring, but did it because that was the culture of the game.

  125. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:09 am

    dude, dave has been posting some awesome stuff all weekend and suggesting drugs because he’s upstaging you tonight is just juvenile.

  126. dave February 9th, 2009 at 2:10 am

    M,

    It is simple for us yankee fans – far less convoluted than people are making it out to seem. A fan should always support his/her players like a fan should always support his/her spouse. It should be through thick and thin, through winning and through losing, until retirement do us part. This is the unconditional fan love that I am talk about here. Of course, stupid yankee fans bood arod before they found out he took roids so Im sure stupid yankee fans will do the same now. But they might as well not be fans if they are booing a yankee. You cant root for the yankees to win and root for arod to do badly at the same time. They are one and the same. So there is nothing left to do except cheer and watch the yankees win. I will even go further and continue to openly support arod and fight for him in arguments and took him up in conversations because he is part of the yankees. He helps them win and i will root for anyone and anything that helps the yankees win. That is the difference between us and the media. Pete sees this as arod did something wrong so people should lose faith in him and his abilities but being a fan transcends all that. Being a fan should mean that at least.

    I liked your ending – And i love the yankees. I didnt think of writing that with all this pent up emotion in me for all the haters.

  127. Pick February 9th, 2009 at 2:11 am

    i enjoy how mlb network has an a-rod tag on the bottom line.

  128. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 2:12 am

    Maybe Arod’s statement should be:

    “Which part of anonymous are people not getting? Everything’s fine now. You got a problem with me, you can kiss my frosted tips. Play ball!”

    Unless he’s under oath.

  129. dave February 9th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    HA PETE.

    Im sorry about that. i GET ALL worked up from stuff like this and of course, i start writing like a mad man. Heck, I will take one if you have one lol. Unfortunately I have to get back to work and pull an all nighter so I cant really post that much more. But I am just trying to put in my two cents and it is coming out like a thesis. Sorry about that. But this is bringing a lot out of me.

  130. Pick February 9th, 2009 at 2:13 am

    nick-

    if he’s under oath he can just say he’s from the dominican and his english is no good

  131. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Focus, dave, focus is the key.

    Hell, Lamar Odom said that “focus” was the key to his performance today in Cleveland.

    If he can focus, then surely we can focus on keeping on the team. And the team can keep their eye on the prize. :)

  132. E-Man February 9th, 2009 at 2:14 am

    “Eating $270 million worth it….” Bill Madden is a tool.

  133. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 2:17 am

    What was Bill Madden doing when McGwire and Sosa were going at it in `98? Why wasn’t he getting the story then? God knows he was already an old hand at that point.

    btw, dave, Paxton Crawford, a Red Sox pitcher said he was offered steroids in the Sox clubhouse back in the day.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....mes_1.html

  134. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:17 am

    Nick,

    Any Laker action today? Or did you stay away from that game?

  135. Espresso February 9th, 2009 at 2:18 am

    Gotta say that Bonds will be the poster boy for the roids era. Its got to be Bonds and Clemons. If we didn’t know anything about steroids Bonds would be the best position player we’ve seen in a long time (possibly ever). Clemons was in all the “top 5″ talk a couple of years ago. When all is said and done, Arod’s numbers might be better than Bonds but they aren’t yet. Bonds has the totals and the single season numbers that make Babe Ruth look like Babe Dahlgren (or Jose Molina for a more contemporary reference).

  136. RSM February 9th, 2009 at 2:18 am

    Pick, I forgot about that. Sosa juiced, corked his bat, and pretended he couldn’t speak English. A Triple-Cheater!
    Wow, he was pure evil. I bet he never paid taxes either.

  137. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 2:21 am

    A-Rod fan: I was joking. Everybody got that except you. Relax.

    Mr. Goodkat: That’s just it, how do you know he used once in 2003? That doesn’t really make sense. So he used an expensive steroid in 2003, won the MVP and then quit the drugs? A smart, well-funded player can get drugs (HGH, etc.) that can’t be detected. Alex is a smart, well-funded player concerned about his image. Giambi got his drugs from a guy in a Gold Gym in Vegas. Alex is much more sophisticated than that.

    Wilg: I find this the worst of times because I really love baseball. I loved playing it when I was kid. I loved coaching it. I loved covering it, even high school ball. Now I can’t watch a game without wondering who is doing what. It sucks.

    I think Alex is a strange guy to deal with. But I loved watching him play. You ever watch him throw? Or run? Now you have to wonder where he got it from. It just sucks.

  138. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 2:22 am

    m: I was pro-Laker +5 today and pro-Laker -1.5 for the second half. Winner winner. I wasn’t going to get involved but my brother the action so I went along for the ride. I could only pay attention to the game in the background, but it looked like a fun one.

  139. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 2:23 am

    ‘but my brother *wanted* the action…’

  140. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:24 am

    Nick,

    I’m glad you won. A win is a terrible thing to waste.

  141. Giuseppe Franco February 9th, 2009 at 2:26 am

    The collective baseball IQs of Madden, Sherman, Kernan, King, and O’Connor drop precipitously once they deviate from reporting facts and offer their own opinions.

    These guys consistently make some of the most asinine arguments in the NY media and this A-Rod fallout is no different.

    I’m wondering how many of these chumps who now blame the Yankee front office for resigning A-Rod were telling us a year ago that bringing him back was a no-brainer.

    One can only imagine the idiotic suggestions Francesa will have coming out of his mouth tomorrow.

  142. Kevin O. February 9th, 2009 at 2:28 am

    oh boy another woe is me and the Yankees opinion let’s just forfeit the 2009 season and get it over with… as a matter of fact let’s just shut all of baseball down for good. this “bombshell” may just end this game we all love i’ll tell you what

  143. Jesse February 9th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Personally, I’m wishing you’d added a fifth option in your poll: let’s pass judgement when we have all the information. And that includes:

    1. A-Rod’s response
    2. The identities of these “four anonymous sources” and whether they had any duty of confidentiality or privilege
    3. An explanation of how A-Rod was “identified” on a list that was supposed to be anonymous.

    I don’t doubt that the reporter did her homework, but I want to be sure that this information is reliable before I pass judgement on this. A-Rod is an easy target for people to hate, so it shouldn’t surprise me that people are jumping on this alarmist bandwagon that you too seem to have boarded. But I sure wish you media types would wait until all the information is in before you editorialize on this.

  144. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Francesa will say Bernie could play third, or Joba could play third until the 8 when he will be needed on the mound.

  145. dave February 9th, 2009 at 2:31 am

    Arod should say – let me see proof of my guilt and force them to publish the entire list. The idea that there are over 100 more people that deserve this kind of anger in baseballl but arod is the only one on the receiving end is frustrating to say the least.

    This is what pissed me off the most about this writer. She clearly could have gotten more than one name yet, it seems like she wanted arod to be the focus of all the angst and aggression so she decided to just write a story about him. I really do hate this woman. She ruined the yankees off season for a lot of people and if she ends up ruining the yankees real season, i AM GOING TO BE ROYALLY PISSED.

    Im thinking about writing her a letter telling her how much it appears that she loves to ruin peoples lives instead of help people with her writing and that she is really doing a heck of a lot for society by merely adding to its the hate and destruction of arod. Most kids grow up wanting to change the world by doing something wonderful, she clearly had other plans. She probably grew up saying I am going to find people to be envious of and slowly dismantle their life piece by piece. She tried to do it with the duke lacrosse team and now, she appears hell bent on arod with the book and now, the article. What is this woman’s problem??

  146. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:31 am

    but what about espinoza for 3rd?

  147. Phil February 9th, 2009 at 2:33 am

    Mike would be happier if Bernie played third.

  148. anon February 9th, 2009 at 2:37 am

    I would love to know the rest of the names! I bet David “Big Papi” Ortiz is in it!

  149. Pick February 9th, 2009 at 2:38 am

    move jeter to third? sign orlando cabrera?

  150. Pick February 9th, 2009 at 2:39 am

    silly anon. mlb loves the sox

  151. Steve in Scranton February 9th, 2009 at 2:41 am

    If Ortiz were guilty, I think we would have already heard it from Canseco. Ortiz is too big a name for Jose to keep under the rug.

  152. drew February 9th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    “Now I can’t watch a game without wondering who is doing what. It sucks.”

    ————————-

    Just curious about something. Are you saying that 3 days ago you could watch a game without wondering who is doing what?

    My opinion hasn’t changed at all. Lots of baseball players cheat and have cheated, and there will never be a way to know who is innocent and who is guilty. I am not surprised at all when I hear that a new name pops up on the guilty list. This won’t change how I watch any game even one bit.

  153. dave February 9th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    Jesse,

    You mean you actually want all the facts at hand before you pass judgement regarding arod? But, but, but you cant … How could you …. do… something like ….. that?
    Wow, one sane person in the room. Good for you! I would shake your hand if we weren’t on the internet.

    The only problem with your argument is that we may never get the identity of his accusers and to me, that is ridiculous. The defense always has a right to face their accuser in the cort of law and yet, almost never has that right in the court of public opinion which sometimes can have much more far-reaching effects than a court of law. To me, it is quite atrocious that a story like this in which arod’s privacy and right to anonymity in an anonymous survery was completely stripped and violated and yet, his accusers remain anonymous. It is so frustrating and downright wrong that it is almost ironic. Im sure arod will find it ironic at least. It is almost like they are playing some sort of cruel, life-altering joke on the guy by saying that they have the right to remain unknown to arod at the same time, that someone broke that very same promise to him. Ohhh, LIFE IS SO CRUEL SOMETIMES.

  154. Clare February 9th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    Peter,

    Take a step back a breathe, would you?

    The “worst of times” and the “face of the era” sounds a lot like your “aliens in central park” and Mo, Posada and Pettitte will never resign now that Torre is gone predictions.

    Notice a pattern? Like jumping to the worst case, overly dramatic possibility?

    I’m disappointed about the news, sure. Bur mostly I’m just sick (already) of the overwrought, self-righteous moralizing from the media. And, given your history of ARod bashing, your dramatic handwringing now sounds particularly transparent.

  155. Smarter than you February 9th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    “I think Alex is a strange guy to deal with. But I loved watching him play. You ever watch him throw? Or run? Now you have to wonder where he got it from. It just sucks.”

    Pete,

    Most of us couldn’t throw or run like that even if we had the most high powered steroid experts in the world advise us about how to use them for optimal results. That fact should never be forgotten. A-Rod is a great player for reasons other than steroids, if he did them. He deserves more due process than an illegal leak, don’t you think?

    The larger point you’re missing is context. Now is the time for people in your profession to find out what other players are doing (or have done) steroids. On second thought, it may be easier to identify those who didn’t do them, because there may be a lot less of them.

    So to you and your journalistic brethren: Show us your investigatory chops and uncover the remaining names on the list.

    And, if A-Rod did do steroids, and he admits it, show him some consideration, and treat him with some dignity for his candor.

  156. Matthew Cohen February 9th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    Pete – man you ate your Wheaties this morning. Welcome back.

    Honestly, I know we’re all saying we’re upset, but if A-Rod goes 300/40/120 and hits the winning home run in game 7 of the World Series, they’ll give him the key to the city.

    What did we all expect? A-Rod is not a phd candidate in moral philosophy. He’s a very talented athlete who is not all that bright or educated and has a history of really bad decisions (Madonna? yech.)

    So let’s all get a grip here – it’s not like we caught the pope doing acid or something.

    Here’s another question – if everyone is on PEDs, do they give you an unfair advantage?

  157. dave February 9th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    This is a very interesting and shockingly, slightly unbiased opinion regarding the players union and orza’s role in all of this:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1

  158. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    For those watching MLB network:

    1. Should Randy J’s 20 K record count when he’s losing the game and has given up 11 hits and 4 runs?

    2. Sweet Lou is SOO roided up!!!

  159. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:47 am

    heyman is definitely the best of the worst

  160. Clare February 9th, 2009 at 2:48 am

    Oh, and the T-shirt photo is lame, petty and unoriginal.

  161. WilG February 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am

    Pete – I love the game and the simple joy of watching it too.

    What is hard to understand is that the guy who you enjoy playing has taken (and had to pass) numerous tests these last few years. When ARod had one of the greatest season ever for a Yankees right-handed hitter two years ago he had to have passed drug tests. How does a 5 year old result take away your joy of watching that remarkable performance?

    If it does than how have you trusted or believed any other player from this era? Have you already gone through your own personal guess/checklist of those 100 players? I imagine many of us wonder about other high profile guys who haven’t had the pleasure of investigative journalism by SI.

    Lots of folks (like GF) have done well to point out that the anger coming from some of the local media seems overdone. Thanks to all of the other folks posting this weekend that help me keep this in perspective. How many days until pitchers and catchers?

  162. Vermillion February 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am

    I have to agree with Dave on this one.

    My prediction is that this story is BS. I have come to this conclusion based on several observations.

    1) Apparently Roberts has a book coming out in May. Who is the book on? Alex Rodriguez.

    2) Didn’t Roberts write some articles about Duke Lacrosse players as well? How that come out? Oh yeah, the allegations against them were false.

    3) I also watched the Costas interview with Roberts and found it interesting that she would not name her sources, which is normal, but would not even comment on where they came from (i.e., Players Union, MLB, DA’s office, Federal Gov’t, etc.). Essentially, this is all coming from one person, Selena Roberts, who claims an alleged four independent sources confirmed this story six years after the fact, right before spring training of 2009 and a week after the Joe Torre book. And if 1) is accurate, then that is even more damning to her story.

    4) Additionally, in her interview with Costas she appeared to contradict herself. She stated that four independent sources told her that he failed. He later asks her if there was any additional evidence that proves he has failed a test since then. Her answer was that there is no hard evidence to show he has failed a test since. To me that implies she saw hard evidence that he failed the 2003 test. What evidence did she show to A-Rod? Most likely that “four” indepedent sources told her this if that. Most likely she stated she had evidence he failed a drug test in 2003. Furthermore, she states that we (herself and SI) took into account the clubhouse presence at the time he was at Texas, with the like of Palmiero, I-Rod, Juan Gon, etc. Okay, either you are reporting based on facts, hearsay, or speculation. It appears she has reported this story on the latter two rather than the former. She stated she showed her “evidence” to A-Rod on Thursday at The U’s gym. I’m sorry, but her evidence is simply someone stated you failed a drug test in 2003. That is not evidence and would not stand up in a court of law. And while A-Rod’s rights are apparently trampled on as a player and a citizen if this is true and was leaked as reported, she can stand behind the first amendment to protect her sources and we just have to accept this as the truth just because SI reported it?

    The goal of the media is to sell newspapers and ad time and the best way to do that is to have breaking news. Add the added dimension of books sales in May and you have a zealous reporter trying to sell books in two months. So a second tier writer breaks this story with four independent sources that up until this time have never come forward before? Wow, four independent sources and NONE of them have ever wanted to sell their stories before? Is there any evidence except for this reported story? I’m sorry, I have to call BS on this one unless I see evidence to the contrary or MLB or the MLBPA or A-Rod comes out and states he failed I do not believe this for a second. And no, I am not a Yankee homer or an A-Rod fan. If I were A-Rod I would sue her and SI for libel and force them to show actual evidence instead of “four” independent sources whom up until this story broke kept their collective mouths shut. I think she maybe has one source, if that, and the rest is speculation and all of it is hearsay.

    Now the true question is, if these allegation are indeed untrue, what will happen? I believe his legacy will still be in question because some dumbass reporter trying to make a name for themselves just reported a false story about him. What happens to the reporter? Who knows, she will probably end up on Sports Reporters giving her meaningless drivel as usual. Show some actual evidence or shut up.

    What is A-Rod to do? Everyone is saying come clean and tell the truth. What if the truth IS that he is clean and these allegations are false? If he comes out and says that he will be called a Clemens and Bonds and everyone will truly label him A-Fraud. The alternative is to admit you did them and move on. Basically A-Rod is in a no win situation here. If the story is false he will be labled a liar for telling the truth.

  163. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am

    totally Clare! glad to have you back!

  164. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am

    Neil Diamond is singing, “Sweet Caroline” on the grammy’s. Daughter is asking if Neil Diamond is gay. Anyone know?

  165. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 2:52 am

    Clare:

    The only pattern I notice is your complete inability to write a post unless it is critical of me.

    But thanks for reading, I guess. I guess I should be flattered you parse every word so carefully searching for conspiracies.

    And the t-shirt was taken from a site that is selling them. It was to show how far baseball has fallen.

    Anyway, time for bed. Thanks to everybody for reading, even the haters. I’m glad people come here to talk baseball. I really am. Thanks.

  166. Smarter than you February 9th, 2009 at 2:54 am

    Here’s another question for Pete and his friends in the media:

    Is doing steroids worse than when pitchers load up a ball with spit or grease, or when catchers scuff up the ball by rubbing it on their belt buckle?

    Is doing steroids worse than the era when many players used “greenies”?

    Is doing steroids worse than hollowing out the barrel of a bat and filling it with cork or superballs?

    I don’t recall a media feeding frenzy animated by moral outrage during any of those eras in MLB. Why is that?

    Stop wringing your hand, remember history, and most of all offer context.

  167. WilG February 9th, 2009 at 2:55 am

    Dave –

    Good catch on the Heyman piece. We all know that Boras loves to provide Heyman with information – any chance this is the first volley back from camp ARod/Boras? Hard to read that article and not wonder where Heyman got so much damming information so quickly on Orza.

  168. Smarter than you February 9th, 2009 at 2:56 am

    Pete subtly calls out the haters but fails to recognize that he has been an A-Rod hater. Sweet.

  169. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 2:56 am

    Vermillion:

    Nice try. But SI editors would have to know of the names of the sources as well and the story would have to be vetted by attorneys. That’s how it works. A giant media company doesn’t let a reporter write whatever he or she wants. Most places demand two sources. She had four.

    Meanwhile, if she is so wrong, why hasn’t Alex, the union, MLB or the Yankees said so?

    Thing is, she is right. She got the story. Its not her fault the guy took steroids.

  170. Clare February 9th, 2009 at 2:57 am

    Peter,

    It’s not a conspiracy, it’s bias, plain and simple, which is generally what prompts me to comment.

  171. m February 9th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    And what did they do to players who were caught with a file or pine tar or other ways of cheating? They got tossed. Do we really want to go down this road?

    I want Alex to be innocent. I want Alex to help our team to the best of his abilities, but I can’t believe that people are trying to justify this revelation about Alex. You can’t unring the bell. You can’t argue that it’s okay in any way, shape, or form. You can rationalize cheering for Alex, but you can’t justify what he did. Just because half of baseball was doing it. Doesn’t make it right.

  172. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    maybe because they are all waiting to talk to their lawyers

  173. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 2:59 am

    Smarter than you:

    Yes to all your questions. If your kid is a ballplayer trying to stay on the 40-man roster and his competition is on two PEDs, that would be OK with you?

    You’re honestly comparing advanced chemistry to scuffing a baseball?

    You might want to change the name you post under.

  174. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 3:00 am

    but they didn’t get tossed.

    http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/

  175. Smarter than you February 9th, 2009 at 3:01 am

    They’re not allowed to talk to their lawyers, or their public relations people, or their spiritual advisers, or their families, or their friends.

    They must respond on the timetable set by Pete and his media cohorts or they are GUILTY AS CHARGED.

  176. anon February 9th, 2009 at 3:02 am

    Steve in Scranton February 9th, 2009 at 2:41 am

    If Ortiz were guilty, I think we would have already heard it from Canseco. Ortiz is too big a name for Jose to keep under the rug.

    ——–

    Uhm… chronic injuries, sudden loss of bat speed (cant hit the inside pitch), buck tooth, big head, man boobs, depression are all signs of a roider.

    Hey, at least he set himself an excuse with this comment:

    “I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don’t do that any more because they don’t have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I’m off of buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican (Republic). But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don’t know. I don’t know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it.

  177. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 3:02 am

    but the fact is drugs are probably more of a problem in the minors.

  178. A-ROD UP THE MIDDLE February 9th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    Add Josh Beckett (obvious symptoms of roid rage) and Ortiz are still on them.

    I’d like to see how Varitek plays this year before I judge if hes still roiding. If he’s hitting over .250 then YES he’s on something. Below the mendoza line, he’s clean.

  179. Smarter than you February 9th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    Pete,

    So your point is that there is a sliding scale of morality (moral relativism, if you will), and that cheating is more acceptable in some instances than it is in others. I disagree. Either you play the game by the rules, or you are a cheater, no matter the means.

    My argument has intellectual honesty, and I stand by it, despite your personal insults.

    Again, your comment about “my kid” competing with A-Rod (the two PED point) suggests that A-Rod is only good because he is on PEDs. That must mean that you think that he did them in high school when he played well enough to be the #1 pick in the country.

    Your point also suggests that A-Rod is one of the few cheaters when the preponderance of the evidence suggests that PED usage is rampant.

    I realize that it’s easier for you to just focus on A-Rod, but what you should really be doing is working to find out the other players who did PEDs, even if it turns out that some of them are your favorites.

  180. dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:10 am

    vermillion,

    The other thing arod has to consider is how many times he did it, who will believe him and if he has any proof. Of course, no one has any proof that he did it outside of the one time he allegedly failed in 03. But somehow, arod will have to proof that he DID NOT do something thereafter. Proving that someone didnt do something is notoriously more difficult than proving that they did some something. Arod can basically say whatever he wants about the length of time because i dont think there is any way for him or anyone else to confirm or deny whatever he says.

    I just hope he doesnt say just the once because that is totally not believable but he could say only a few times or even only that year. I mean look at the thing he has accomplished since that point so one year would not do all that much to change the perception of his talent. Of course, there are people like pete and other media who have already decided that there is no way arod quit after 2003 based on him winning the cy young. Bu there were SOOO many reasons for him to quit thereafter. Starting with the initiation of testing,add fines and suspension for being caught and him moving to the spotlight of NY all the way to the mitchell report, the destruction of bonds and clemens careers and the harsh and unrelenting criticism of those that used.

    People keep saying this will really hurt arod because he cares soo much about public perception – you would think media would also say that he cares so much about what people think of him that he would not want to face the same predicament as bonds or clemens but of course, I have not seen a single writer discuss that yet. i GUESS companies sell more papers with negative content so putting arod in any sort of positive or slightly better light is frowned upon. i CANT wait to hear how many times he says he has done it because im sure it wont include his time with NY – I just want to hear peoples overall reaction taking his words at complete BS when people were all too ready to jump on the arod is a horrible person boat. Frankly, no matter what he says, people wont believe him anymore now so if i were him, i would sue them for libel. That should get roberts blood flowing.

  181. Peter Abraham February 9th, 2009 at 3:16 am

    Spiritual advisors? Right, exactly. The Yankees go to their spiritual advisors. So does the MLBPA. That’s paramount. Selig, Fehr, Orza and the Steinbrenners meet regularly with a wide assortment of priests, ministers and rabbis to talk about baseball matters. You couldn’t be more correct. They get all the religions involved. The Greek Orthodox are especially helpful.

    Meanwhile, guy like A-Rod, it takes him quite a while to get in touch with his agents and publicists. They all have bigger clients.

    A-Rod fan: Drugs are in fact less of a problem in the minors. Players are tested more frequently due to the lack of union representation. They catch a lot of kids in the Dominican summer league but not many others.

  182. Steve in Scranton February 9th, 2009 at 3:18 am

    If someone walked up to you and said they were publishing a story that you used steroids, and it were not true, would you direct them to the union, or need time to speak to a lawyer?

    You would scream in her face that the accusation is 100% false.

    The reaction tells the story. He already admitted guilt.

  183. Vermillion February 9th, 2009 at 3:19 am

    Pete:

    She got the Duke Lacrosse story right as well? I know in another post an LA newspaper got a huge story about Clemens and Pettitte incorrect as well. So reporters are beyond reproach? Do we know SI actually knows who the four independent sources are? Are we to believe that six years after the fact and give years after the government confiscated the tests that now four independent sources come out to tell their story? Not to mention the fact she has a book coming out in May about A-Rod.

    Now, to address the reason A-Rod, MLB, or the MLBPA or Yankees have not made a statement. Firstly, the MLB and MLBPA can not because the results are/were confidential, anonymous and sealed by a court order. The Yankees have not because what exactly are they going to say? As you have stated, they just found out about this a few days ago and haven’t spoken with Alex about it. Now as for A-Rod, I can speculate. Firstly, you don’t act rashly, innocent or guilty. Secondly, he has to take into account past allegations and the reactions to denial or acceptance, ala Bonds and Clemens. Bonds said nothing and denied it and Clemens denied it and sued and how is that turning out for both of them. If I am correct, I believe the media basically said, “Well Roger should come out immediately and deny any allegations…” and look what happened. If I were him and I was not guilty I would not make an immediate public statement. What good would that do? The SI report is more reliable than the Holy book itself and must be true. If he is not guilty of these allegations, he could come out immediately and deny it. Result? Everyone would call him A-Liar and a true fraud and that he just needs to come clean or show evidence to the contrary. Funny thing is he can’t face his accusers because although, if true, his 4th amendment rights was trampled his accusers are protected by a reporter hiding beind the 1st amendment. How can he prove is innocence? As such, he needs to take some time to develop an appropriate response. Roger acted hastily and it cost him everything. Bonds didn’t say anything and it cost him. So what can A-Rod do if he is innocent. What would you suggest if a damning report came out against you that was not true but was reported as such and in the court of public opinion you were guilty and the media and fans are already tying the noose?

  184. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 3:21 am

    are the fines bigger in the minors?

  185. AROD fan February 9th, 2009 at 3:25 am

    i just think it’s a myth that steroids give you a competitive edge over other players. maybe taking the right steroids in the right way with the right medical advice might give you an advantage over the guy just taking steroids in the street, but that’s it. you could give me the best steroids money can buy and i would still strike out looking every time.

  186. Clare February 9th, 2009 at 3:25 am

    This is my favorite take so far:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....it-begins/

    “. . . Yes, many people will complain about the latest steroid news. I suppose even a few may give up on Rodriguez and the Yankees altogether, though if they do they are drama queens of the first order.

    But to suggest that the Yankees are somehow suckers and Rodriguez somehow worthless in light of all of this is to misunderstand why anyone pays attention in the first place. It’s baseball. It’s a game. Alex Rodriguez will continue to play it better than just about any player. The Yankees will continue to win games at a clip surpassing just about any team. And the fans will continue to show up and root for them both — the latter far more than the former, of course — just the way they have for the past 109 years.”

  187. dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:26 am

    Pete,

    Its not roberts fault that she had the story but it is extremely obvious that she hates arod and it has NOTHING to do with steroids. I mean she is writing a book that iis basically about arod being a failure at life. You cant be much more bias as a reported than that. She clearly has it out for the guy and the fact that she got her hands on this info and no one else is a bit odd. I just dont quite understand how the government would have this information at their disposal and not use it during the mitchell report. I mean where was this list before? And why was the anonymity upheld until this woman reported came along and demanded info for a story about arod. And then, she publishes the story with the list of over 100 users and the story is only about arods use.

    It is NOT hard to see what she wanted from all this – she wanted the focus of everyones attention and blame to be solely places on arod. To me, that seems very wrong especially for a reporter that is supposed to be unbiased and objective. I am surprised you dont see that pete. It is so evident to me that she wants to destroy arods life to turn a profit and that is exactly what she did for the most part. I think she is a sad, miserable little person who is excited by the prospect of using her power as a sports writer for SI to make people suffer. She definitely rubs me the wrong way and even during her interviews, you can tell that she is cruel.

  188. Vermillion February 9th, 2009 at 3:27 am

    Now a counter point to my original suspisions about the story. If the story is true, which I still can’t believe any reasonable person doesn’t have some hesitation based on the facts I outlined in a previous post, then this is what or how I think it transpired.

    Again, this speculation is if the story is true, which I do not believe it is. He signed with the Rangers in 2001. No I don’t believe he used in Seattle at all. The Rangers were filled with known dopers during that time, Juan Gon and Rafeal, the most notorius. I think, in a effort to fit in and be one of the guys, A-Rod with his insecurities and people pleasing personality coupled with his drive to be the best, probably started experimenting and taking roids sometime in 2001. I would think he juiced the entire time he was with Texas and once he was traded to the Yankees he stopped.

  189. Nick in SF February 9th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    Scream in her face? Sounds like ‘roid rage.

    Talk to my union. Smoooooooth.

  190. m February 9th, 2009 at 3:32 am

    Okay, off to console the daughter who thinks Li’l Wayne was robbed. (I thought Cold Play should’ve won).

    The other tracks on the winning album must be spectacular. :?

  191. dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:35 am

    Yea clare except some yankee fans are morons. They boo arod before any of this came out and now, I have a feeling the boos will be much louder. I cant take that crap at the game. i WANT to turn around and slug the guy who is booing him behind me in the face then, move my seat. But there is nowhere to go because there are so many dumb yankee fans with tickets to the games. I dont think i can handle another year of the entire stadium booing our own player. I thought those days were behind us but now, i seriously domb that is true. Its funny that I am more worried about the fans reaction to arod than I am worried about arod. Ohh, will fans ever learn that arod is a yankee and booing him hurts the team that we root for? It is just hillarious how stupid people can be sometimes. I love even reading the comments in here that suggest that people will go to the stadium just to boo arod – wow, that is just a whole new level of dumb right there. Just when i thought Id heard it all, people continue to surprise.

  192. Richard B February 9th, 2009 at 3:50 am

    Just read on Yahoo sports that the Judge on Bonds case may pursue a contempt of court on who ever leaked the information. I wonder if this means Roberts will have to name her sources sooner or later.

  193. Boston Dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:51 am

    not sure if this was posted already (from the Heyman link above):

    “That list would have been long gone if not for the union; according to three baseball sources familiar with the testing process, players union COO Gene Orza worked long and hard to try to pare down the list. Orza’s mission, SI’s sources say, was to find enough false positives on the list to drive the number of failures so far down that real testing wouldn’t be needed in 2004 or ever.

    Orza wanted to get the list down below the five percent threshold for testing to go away entirely. But after months of trying, Orza couldn’t do it, and baseball announced that a curiously imprecise 5-7 percent of players failed the 2003 survey test, enough to ramp up the testing in 2004, much to the union’s dismay.”

  194. Boston Dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:53 am

    “Just read on Yahoo sports that the Judge on Bonds case may pursue a contempt of court on who ever leaked the information. I wonder if this means Roberts will have to name her sources sooner or later.”

    Yay! This will linger on and on and on…

    though I am in the camp that believes the full list needs to be exposed. Make everyone realize that MLB, not individual players, were to blame.

    Only then can this be put behind us.

  195. Boston Dave February 9th, 2009 at 3:55 am

    ARod leak may have been a crime.

    Really? ya think?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns

  196. Richard B February 9th, 2009 at 3:57 am

    This is some of that Yahoo sports article:

    A source familiar with the proceedings between the government and MLB players union said, “It is not possible this was leaked without there being a violation of the law.”

    Two former prosecutors said it was likely that Judge Susan Illston, who is presiding over the Bonds case, would order contempt hearings. The Rodriguez disclosure is especially serious because Illston and other federal judges had ruled that this was “information [the government] wasn’t entitled to,” said Charles La Bella, a former U.S. Attorney who practices criminal defense in San Diego. “It’s unfair to tarnish an individual based on that illegally seized information.”

  197. Marc February 9th, 2009 at 3:58 am

    Pete,

    You’re absolutely right in that in this day and age nobody isn’t suspect. From David Eckstein to the Big Hurt and everyone in between. Nobody can say with 100% certainty that any player didn’t touch the stuff. Not even Curtis Monteque Schilling no matter how loud he screams from his self-righteous soapbox.

    I’m with you that MLB needs to take a hard line zero tolerance approach. But I also believe that MLB and the Feds need to stop looking into the past with silly witch hunts and devote their energy to prevent PED use in the present day and the future. MLB is only hurting the game at this point. It’s a common fact that PED use was widespread in the game for the past decade or two. It does nothing to resolve the issue by continuing to point fingers and name names. As someone who loves the game a lot more than any single individual player I really wish that the Feds would stick to more pertinent issues like righting out economy and digging this country out of the hole we’re in and that the MLB would step up it’s testing policy and the punishments that come with a positive test. And for the love of god please let Pete Rose into the hall. He deserves it ten times over. He deserved it before the steroid era and he deserves it now more than ever.

  198. Richard B February 9th, 2009 at 4:00 am

    Boston Dave.. I agree with you about it lingering on. And I think ARod will use that to hide behind. Something like ‘look guys it’s all in the courts and i can’t say a thing’

  199. dave February 9th, 2009 at 4:00 am

    Yes the whole list should be published and I only hope that some non-yankee as big as arod is shown to have used as well. This is so unfair that only arod is getting killed when there are over 100 names out there somewhere and all of those players are not getting any criticism at all. iT IS CLEAR roberts did this as a personal vendetta and that should not be tolerated in the media. This is the opposite of objective, it is biased and very irritating. SPRING TRAINING CAN NOT COME SOON ENOUGH!!

  200. Richard B February 9th, 2009 at 4:04 am

    Didn’t the courts threaten to jail the writers of Game of Shadows for not naming sources? I wonder if Roberts will get the same treatment..

  201. Drive 4-5 February 9th, 2009 at 5:36 am

    “Brilliant move by Hank Steinbrenner to overrule Brian Cashman in 2007 and allow Rodriguez to return to the team after he opted out.”

    This sentiment is classic Monday morning quarterbacking. The facts are that, at the time, re-signing A Rod made sense on a lot of levels.

    No replacement for A Rod’s production was available on the Yankees’ roster.

    The options in the free agent market werent nearly as productive if they went outside the organization.

    A Rod was believed to have been clean. He was the baseball establishment’s favored player for breaking Bond’s home run record. Dont ever forget that.

    The Yankees were getting ready to move into the new Stadium. Their stable of star players was aging. They needed a younger marquee player to help market the transition. The player regarded as the best in the game made perfect sense.

  202. Phil Parcells February 9th, 2009 at 6:31 am

    OMG!!!!

    Check out the Post’s front page!!

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/02092009/frontback.htm

    :D

  203. jared February 9th, 2009 at 6:47 am

    pete,
    i agree with the one strike and your out rule.
    i also want to see the other 103 names on that list as soon as possible.

  204. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 6:52 am

    Actually, if ARod has used, he will become the new face of steroids. No one -almost no one – doubted that Bonds used. He certainly looked the part, plus his production numbers skewed way up when they should have started trending down. Plus he was positively obnoxious about the entire thing.

    Then you have ARod. His physique didn’t change all that much. He “filled out,” which would be normal for any person just from an aging standpoint, and specifically for a person who is reportedly the hardest worker in the game who also is a nutrition freak (and I mean that in a kind way). Then you have his numbers. No large gains in the numbers. He’s had a pretty even career. He may be quirky and he may rub a lot of people the wrong way, but he was no Bonds in attitude.

    ARod’s having taken steroids (if true – which I believe it is) puts the new face on the era because all the stuff that people look for were NOT there. He makes it possible to doubt that anyone is clean. Bonds didn’t do that. Not to this extent.

    For instance, I certainly hope that players like Jeter and Mariano never used anything. But I was convinced a guy like Pettitte never would either. I am no longer absolutely sure of this, or even somewhat sure. It is down to one word: I “hope” they didn’t.

    In the poll, I answered I was not surprised. This is true, but more accurately, my reaction is I was not shocked. Given the choices, that was my default answer.

  205. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 6:58 am

    how many commenters who were incenced that arod’s name came out now are demanding that the other 103 names come out? if you considered it a breach of arod’s privacy for his name to be outted, how can you then advocate breaching 103 other people’s privacy just so arod doesnt feel so bad?

  206. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 6:58 am

    One thing: The substance ARod (allegedly) took, Primobolan, was supposed to be difficult to detect, and yet it was detected. That’s very interesting to me. Maybe make some guys who are using think twice about being able to “cheat” the testing with “designer” steroids.

    Or, how’s this – my very conspiracy-seeking mind is working overtime – they KNEW the sample was ARod’s and they did different more sophisticated testing on his (and perhaps others). Or steroids are more easily identified than anyone is letting.

  207. Phil Parcells February 9th, 2009 at 6:59 am

    You know, I beginning to think Madonna is juiced. I mean, she’s over 50, yet she’s ripped like a 20 year old linebacker.

  208. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:02 am

    Ham Fighters -

    I’m torn on that. Part of me says it’s not fair for just one name to come out, for one player to take the heat. But another part says that since the tests were supposed to be anonymous, those other 103 names must be protected.

    Now, I also don’t believe it is just happenstance that it was ARod’s name that was linked. He is the highest profile guy in the league and he happens to have a few people who don’t like him. But when he finally issues a statement or makes himself publicly available for comment, I don’t think he can really attack the process by which his name was made public. He can mention it, but that can’t be his “defense.”

  209. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:03 am

    make that “leaked” not “linked.”

  210. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:06 am

    doreen, the #’s and the list of corresponding names were kept by different labs in different locations, so the system was designed to keept things like that from happening.

    it doesnt make it impossible,but pretty unlikely.

  211. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:07 am

    Drive 4-5

    I am in agreement with you regarding re-signing ARod. Heck, even my husband, who is not the biggest ARod fan, thinks it was really a no-brainer, for all the reasons you stated.

  212. Richard C February 9th, 2009 at 7:07 am

    Friends. I am choosing to ignore the media when they write stuff like this. Even our guy, Peter. This is not what I want to focus on.

    Nobody out here walking the planet is perfect. It is unfair to hold these players to such high standards. I am not condoning the use of steroids, but I am accepting it and moving on. Let the media and the lawyers do their thing. I am not interested in hearing about it. Its all illusion.

    I love the Yankees. I love baesball. I dearly love The Game. That is my Truth. I choose to focus on my passion for The Game, my Yankees and the imperfect human beings that play on it. I wish every one of them the very best, on and off the field.

    I feel so good about this team, this year.

    Play ball!!

  213. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:08 am

    Ham Fighters -

    Yeah, I don’t really think so either. My thinking is on overdrive for sure! :)

  214. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:09 am

    if the court goes after roberts for her sources, she can always pull an arod and hop a plane to the bahamas.

  215. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:10 am

    if the court goes after selena roberts to reveal her sources, she can always make like arod and catch the first flight out of the country.

  216. Jay Waldman February 9th, 2009 at 7:13 am

    It really doesn’t matter!!! Everyone is suspect therefore stop pointing the fingers. You nkow who is really to blame, NEWSFLASH:
    BUD SELIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    First off he is a criminal who gave up ownership of the Brewers to his DAUGHTER then forced the state of Wisconsin to build a new stadium and wow look what happens a year or two later she sells the team and the SELIG family walks away with a couple hundred extra million. Those of you who didn’t know that is it a shock to you???
    Selig’s fault 100%, he knew that players were cheating, I mean come on players have cheatedin one way or another since the game began. I love how guys like Michael Jack Shmidt who was hopped up on Amphetimines is so high and mighty…
    Selig was struggling post baseball strike and knew that McGuire and Sosa were taking. SELIG IS TO BLAME Fire his 18 million dollar making a$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  217. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:14 am

    Also, way up in the thread Art Vandelay made a good point about how steroids is symbolic of our society. The shortcuts that are taken in almost every area. Some is cheating, some is cutting corners, some things are accepted because the outcome is good; some not so much. It’s widespread, and it becomes tolerated, if not accepted. People throw their hands up in defeat – “it is what it is” – precisely because it is so widespread as to be overwhelming. And the technology of the day, whether it’s being able to produce more undetectable steroids or cell phones that allow students to cheat on tests, makes it even easier. The fact that people don’t really have a sense of guilt about these “shortcuts” is more disturbing than the shortcuts themselves.

  218. MaineYankee February 9th, 2009 at 7:19 am

    Doreen

    I make it a point to read your posts because you are well thought out and well written.

    I would like to believe ARod is clean but I’m afraid he probably isn’t. The problem I have with this whole thing is that the report is he is alledged to have taken them based on one writers report. As soon as the story broke it was reported that he did take steroids not that it was alledged.

    Yes the evidence is damning. did he do it? Probably. I just think that at times reporters are too quick to judgement so as to get a story out.

    To say he is the face of the steroid era is just sensationalizing this story even more. This also goes to another problem I have with this whole thing. MLB is risking killing its product by allowing this to drag out this way. Also the union is destroying their relationship with the players by not protecting them. How can you trust them when they allow some of the top talent to be hung out this way.

  219. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:19 am

    And remember that human beings can justify anything to themselves. It is not inconceivable that a guy like ARod or even Clemens, who do have the talent, and who do work very hard, have convinced themselves that steroids didn’t give them a competitive edge so much as make their workouts more effective so that they can be more valuable to their team. Not justification to us, mind you, but justification to themselves. They weren’t taking steroids to be better than everyone else, because in their minds they already were.

  220. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:22 am

    ‘forced the state of wisconsin to build a stadium?’ did he hold guns to the heads of all 5.6 million people in the state or just the govenor and legislators?

  221. Sean Serritella February 9th, 2009 at 7:25 am

    Welcome back Peter. Great article.

  222. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 7:27 am

    MaineYankees -

    I don’t like the way this all came out. I don’t like that it’s one reporter and her 4 unnamed sources, a reporter who appears to be settle some kind of grudge at that.

    But IF this is all true, I don’t think it would be sensationalizing to say that ARod became the new face for the steroid era. I think it’s sad. Because what he comes to symbolize is the breadth of the problem. Bonds will never go away as the big bad guy. But Alex puts another spin on it. Bonds and his (lack of) personality allowed us to make our vision narrow – seek out the big heads, the showy numbers that spike for a season or two, etc.

    If Alex is in fact “guilty,” it broadens the scope and it takes down everyone. It was widely believed that Alex was clean. It was not obvious. So, the new face on steroids is that we can’t ever believe, ever, that anyone is 100% above suspicion.

    Is it premature to be saying such things? Probably. But I was responding to Pete’s assertion and though on the face of it it seems hyperbole, if you think about it, it’s not an off-base concept.

  223. Josh February 9th, 2009 at 7:31 am

    Pete, get off your high horse. A-Rod made a mistake. If you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you wouldn’t cheat to gain an advantage and money, you are lying. It’s human nature. I’m sick of all you media types consistently going at A-Rod. It’s about time you pick a new target.

  224. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:33 am

    i’ve got problems with the govenment’s involvment. i dont like that grand jury testimony and evidence is leaked every day in this country. i didnt like selena roberts as a columnist and i dont doubt that she’s writing a book about arod that will not put him in a good light. i dont like it that only arod’s name came out, i want to know who the other cheaters are.

    that being said, this is about arod and his decision to cheat as well as his denial of that cheating.

    the other stuff is just a distraction. if it wasnt roberts, it would have been rosenthal or verducci, it doesnt matter. if it wasnt from leaked grand jury evidence, it would have been from eyewitnesses or the guy who sold it. and if the other 102 names (bonds is alrealy out) were leaked, it would still be arod’s name in the headlines.

    bottom line is arod’s a cheater and a liar and the rest is noise.

  225. Josh February 9th, 2009 at 7:34 am

    I say throw Selena in jail until she reveals her sources. Then jail each of those ‘supposed’ sources when she finally comes clean.

  226. Jorge Steinbrenner February 9th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    Sorry Peter, but the problem isn’t baseball….it’s in each and every one of us and our attempts at knee-jerk morality.

    There’s so much grey area as to performance enhancers that it’s just head-spinning. To just use the label “cheater” on anyone who tries to improve their physical performance through chemicals is just throwing a ridiculous blanket. Read “Steroid Nation.” The line between “wellness” and what’s described as “cheating” is very fine.

    In a world where people woke up every morning and used the brain god gave them, this and Michael Phelps would be a non-issue. The people on the cover of the newspapers with “cheater” under their name wouldn’t be folks like Alex Rodriguez. It’d be the people who went and bought homes they knew they couldn’t pay for, the people who loaned them the money they knew they couldn’t get back, and the politicans who turned a blind eye to them. Those are the “cheaters” that bring down our society. Not Alex Rodriguez.

    Here’s to 50 home runs from A-Rod and a World Championship….and the hope that he does the right thing and comes clean in all this. He was “forgiven” the moment the news came out by this fan.

  227. pat February 9th, 2009 at 7:44 am

    And once again it all comes down to expectations.

    He didn’t bring championships to NY, didn’t hit the 3 run HR when they needed it and now he didn’t save the world from Barry Bonds.

    You expected that and when it doesn’t happen you’re upset about it. Fair enough but admit it for what it is instead of the moralizing and personalizing that has gone on for the past few days.

    Everyone seems to want an apology. Let me start.

    I’m sorry, Pete doesn’t get to cover a “clean” HR chase. Most writers live for that kind of story. That has to be disappointing.

    I’m sorry Pete doesn’t like Alex as a person but all of us deal with people at work we don’t like. Difference between me and sportswriters is if I trash them, I get fired.

    I’m sorry rules are in place that dictate how a player is treated if they break them and there’s no “except A-Rod” clause in it. Anyone who did steroids prior to 2003 isn’t getting suspended and whether Michael Phelps smoked pot or not doesn’t change that rule.

    I’m sorry some people seem to think that life is fair. Right up there with the myths of tooth fairies and a free lunch.

    I’m sorry A-Rod did not live up to your expectations but more sorry that he felt the need to cheat to live up to an expectation.

    I’m sorry in advance that whatever he says isn’t going to make some of you feel better about it.

  228. MaineYankee February 9th, 2009 at 7:45 am

    Some here have made a good point about this being symbolic of society. Everywhere you look people are doing this to gain an advantage. Locally we have stories on a regular basis of someone stealing money from local towns or nonprofits. When they get caught they always have an excuse as to why they did it, not that they were wrong. There’s a real problem with people being accountable for their actions. It is hypocritical to hold someone to a higher standard than what we expect from ourselves.

  229. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    pat,
    im sorry arod chose to cheat.

  230. MaineYankee February 9th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    doing things to gain an advantage

  231. Fran February 9th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    Now people are saying the Yanks should not have resigned Alex. Easy to say so now in hindsight. But you never know about any player any more, so maybe no free agents should be signed. You never know!

  232. Neil February 9th, 2009 at 7:54 am

    To hear all the A-Rod hype, it’s made out to be like he pulled off something worse than Bernard Maoff’s Ponzi scheme.
    The real bamboozler in all of this is Selig for hoodwinking the baseball owners for his huge overpaid salary.

  233. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 7:56 am

    fran there are alot of people like me who never wanted him on the team and were against resigning him.

    i rooted for him because he’s a yankee but i never thought he was worth all the money and noise. sadly now many people who thought he was legit will now join me in having to root for a guy they dont like (anymore) to lead the yankees to a WS.

    add to all that the tarnish that an arod championship would bring and its makes alot of yankees fans mad. ill still root for him, he’s still a yankee, but with even less enthusiasm than i had for him before.

  234. pat February 9th, 2009 at 7:57 am

    Ham

    Only A-Rod can apologize for what he chose to do.

  235. Propaghandi February 9th, 2009 at 7:58 am

    I really don’t care if the every player in the game is revealed as having used steroids.

    I love the game of baseball.

    Sure, all the cheating sucks, but when you take the following factors into consideration, can you expect anything less? When you pay people to play a game, pay them according to their performance, and then consider that these players only have a limited time to play (10-15 years), players will find any way possible to get the most amount of money during that time. Strike while the iron’s hot so to speak.

    Ever since McGwire and Canseco I figured steroids were being used. Does anyone remember these guys when they played for US Baseball in 84? McGwire was a beanpole. It just didn’t make sense. Even Bonds; his first 4 years in the league he didn’t hit over 25 home runs. Then he jumps to the mid-30′s, upper 40′s and one season has 73? Give me a break. It’s not brain surgery either to consider that as Bonds home runs increased, his stolen bases decreased.

    The steroids do not lessen my love of baseball and my desire to enjoy the game on it’s highest level. It does however mean that I will never buy MLB merchandise (I already have my 15 year old Yankee hat and Mattingly and Rivera jerseys) or pay money to see a game (okay, I may take my unborn son to see at least one game at Yankee Stadium some time in his life). I’m perfectly happy watching the Yankees on YES for free.

    I’m not on the payroll. Neither ARod or Jeter pay my bills or send me Christmas cards. My emotional involvement is with the game, not the players. So ARod and Jeter can do whatever they like and it will have zero effect on me. Long after they’re gone I will continue to watch and love baseball.

    This is seriously way too much drama to be involved in for a game I love so much. I hate General Hospital and other soap operas but I still watch TV.

  236. Tom February 9th, 2009 at 8:00 am

    A-rod cheated (allegedly). He also broke the law-steroids are a controlled substance.

    While it’s easy to yell and scream at Pete, at Roberts, at everybody who calls A-rod A-fraud. The facts are (allegedly) that A-rod failed a drug test 6 years ago. People can scream all they want about the legality of the leaks, the opinions of sports writers, or the actions of the players union. But, in the end it all comes back to the fact that A-rod (allegedly) cheated. This is nobodies fault but his own.

  237. Ken February 9th, 2009 at 8:06 am

    Pete: you put too much blame on the players. Yes, these guys did it. But the league and front offices (and union) knew it was going on and did nothing. They were happy to profit from it.

    IMO, Bud Selig is as guilty as if he held the syringe and injected ‘roids into the players.

  238. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    im sorry but living up to my expectations isnt that hard. i dont get bent out of shape about what they do off the field, im cool with how much money they make. i want them to play hard, contribute to the team and not cheat.

    o and stay out of the crime blotter of the newspaper.

    not too high expectations for ballplayers from me.

  239. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    Tom:

    I think you’ve nailed it. Lot of killing the messenger here. None of this is on the reporter. It’s on Arod.

    In fairness to Arod, the MLBPA seriously let him down on this. As I understand it, these anonimous tests from ’03 were supposed to be destroyed. If I’m Arod, I’m wondering why this did not happen and Fehr and Orza are the guys I’m asking. Further, he’s in a box right now inasmuch as he can’t talk about it right now. At a time when some transparency would be the best thing for him, he’s bound to silence. Still his fault for doing it in the 1st place, and I don’t feel sorry for him, but his union really hung him out to dry.

  240. SJ44 February 9th, 2009 at 8:07 am

    He may be the “face” of steroids for an entirely different reason than Pete was getting to.

    If they ever find out who leaked that info, that person is going to jail.

    It won’t help Arod out of his current predicament but, it would be poetic justice if that took place.

    Pete,

    I understand your point but, here is where we differ.

    You can’t discount everything somebody does just because they juiced. Plenty of guys juiced and still couldn’t play a lick.

    I’ve talked to guys who played and juiced and some of them couldn’t handle it and stopped juicing because it didn’t help them.

    Steroids aren’t a magic elixir. You just don’t take it and, poof, turn into a Hall of Fame player.

    The “designer steroid” Arod supposedly took? You could have gotten it at any high end gym in America in 2003. You just had to have an “in” with the better dealers at that time.

    Who was Arod’s “in”? Jose Canseco. Canseco introduced him to the kind of dealer who could get those type of PED’s. At that time, with MUCH less law enforcement scrutiny around the gyms in this country, it wasn’t difficult to acquire good stuff.

    The problem with this entire story, and the entire era for that matter, is twofold:

    1. The entire leadership of the sport failed. The Commissioner, the Union, ownership/management and the clean players for not demanding the Union take more aggressive action to protect them, all failed. By doing so, the entire sport suffered. Its why everybody at the top end of the leadership chain (Selig, Fehr and Orza) need to go.

    2. The media failed by not pursuing this story. Pete, you are a smart man. You know the kind of access journalists like Peter Gammons, Hal Bodley (one of Bud Selig’s best friends), Buster Olney, Murray Chass, etc had/have.

    The “noise” was out there something was going on. Nobody pursued it. They were too busy getting caught up in the wave of baseball’s new popularity to do ANYTHING to upset that gravy train. Sort of like what the football media does today when it comes to PED use in the NFL.

    The upscale baseball media EXCORIATED the reporter from St. Louis when he asked Mark McGuire about the Andro bottle in his locker. Where were the “investigative journalists then? Did that not give anybody pause or a reason for concern? NOBODY in the media wanted to be the guy that “brings down baseball”.

    To that end, it seems to me the media is now playing “catch up” and trying to put the juice (pardon the pun) back in the bottle.

    That’s why every fan poll taken shows little interest on their end about steroid stories.

    I think the fans, better than the media in this case, have decided, “that was the era, it is what it is, and we have moved on”.

    JMO but, I think a lot of the media is having a VERY hard time “moving on” because they are still ticked off at themselves for sleeping on this story for years.

    NONE of what I just wrote excuses ANYBODY, Arod included, from using PED’s.

    However, the culture, especially back in 2003 was so rampant with PED use in MLB, Ken Caminiti once claimed that “70% of the guys in the game either experimented or were consistent users”.

    Ironically, he also got ripped by many of the media names I listed above for his comments.

    Sadly, he was probably low on that number during that time.

    We have parallel issues here Pete. One is Arod. A HUGE problem. Why did he do it? Why did he hang the Yankees out to dry by not informing them this was on the horizon? Where do Arod and the Yankees go from here? All legitimate questions and all need to be answered.

    The other issue, just as important IMO is, how in the world can the same present, failed leadership in the game EVER be counted on to fix this? They can’t.

    The sport needs new leadership. Without it, nothing will change. We will just shift our outrage from ARod to the next player whose name comes out.

  241. Garym(Yanks and More) February 9th, 2009 at 8:08 am

    Hey Pete, welcome back. I am glad you wrote this post and im sure i will be hung for this but I would ask how did a little skinny guy-MO go from throwing 88-89 and then all of a sudden throwing 95-96. How did Big Papi go from nothing in Minnesota to one of the most feared sluggers or Beltran go nuts in one postseason get his money and never come close to that again, i can go on and on but come on all of these guys were doing it.

  242. Jorge Steinbrenner February 9th, 2009 at 8:10 am

    Hydroxycut = a performance enhancer
    fitness goo = a performance enhancer
    caffiene = a performance enhancer

    It’s so incredibly telling that baseball players have been suspended for utilizing substances bought over the counter at GNC. That’s how shaky the ground is here.

    Yes…I know A-Rod used an expensive designer steroid. It doesn’t change the argument. The means, no matter the price, are the same.

    It’s illegal. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s immoral and, like so many are calling it, “cheating.” I don’t have a problem with PED use, just like I don’t have a problem with illegal downloading. There’s actually a ton of parallels between how the industries that got caught with their pants down in both regards have handled each situation.

    Athletes are expected to play through injury, perform at top level every night, and get booed (like, oh, A-Rod does by all of you) when they don’t. They all take some sort of performance enhancer to retain the edge. That has to include A-Rod, Jeter, Lebron James, and even Michael F’n Jordan. I have no control over where the line is drawn in the mainstream as to what is acceptable vs. non-acceptable performance enhancing. I just can point out that the mainstream usually doesn’t know a damn thing.

  243. Jorge Steinbrenner February 9th, 2009 at 8:12 am

    I meant “the ends…no matter the price…are the same”

  244. Jorge Steinbrenner February 9th, 2009 at 8:12 am

    I meant “the ends…no matter the price…are the same”

  245. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    I’m surprised to wake up this morning listening to 660am talk about how unfair this is to ARod, how bad the leak is, and the people who should be fired.

    Quite honestly I expected nothing less from Carton than:

    “This is why the Mets are better”
    “ARod’s a FREAKING CHEATER, AHAHAHAHAHA”
    “Anything the Yankees do in the next 9 years means nothing anymore”

    Which is all stupid, but I have heard worse from then lol

  246. pat February 9th, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Ham

    Then until Saturday morning, by your description, A-Rod had met your expectations. Many people here didn’t feel that way.

    I hate that he took PEDs. Hate it! But the moralizing taking place is over the top.

  247. yankee2005 February 9th, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Hey Pete

    If you are so pissed then why even go to tampa to cover spring training? What’s the point of covering something that is all a sham? Get a different job Pete.

  248. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:18 am

    one thing that has been bugging me in baseball for the past 10 years or so is the tag ‘future hall of famer.’ it gets thrown around in baseball lately like candy. its been devalued to the point where people say things like “if this kid could cut down on his strikeouts he’s be a future hall of famer.” it has replaced all-star as the distinguishing thing about a player or his career. i hate it id like to see the term banned myself.

    but with what’s going on now, i think a case can be made for retiring the term altgether. if arod isnt a future hall of famer then nobody is.

    im not saying whether arod or anybody else does or doesnt deserve the HOF, im just saying predicting it for an active player has now become foolish and its time to retire the term.

  249. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here February 9th, 2009 at 8:20 am

    OMG!!!!

    Check out the Post’s front page!!

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/02092009/frontback.htm

    =================================================

    A-Hole.
    Oh that NY Post.. :shock:

  250. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:24 am

    pat, yes you are right, arod, despite me not wanting him on the team, did meet my expectations as a yankee. i might not like the cravat and i do occasionally poke fun at him, he definitly did meet and sometimes exceed my expectations.

    i dont like him but i root for him and wish the best for him.

    i was also critical of him last summer when he stopped hustling out his extra base hits for a while but that was minor. he’s been fine with me as a yankee and i dont blame any of the yankees failings since he go her on him specifically other than as part of the overall team.

  251. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    “A-Hole.
    Oh that NY Post.. :shock:

    They aren’t calling him an a-hole. They are saying he dug himself into a hole. Hence the back page: a-lone.

  252. trisha - NY Yankees, 2009 World Champions February 9th, 2009 at 8:30 am

    I read Massarotti’s article and it really helped to center me. I am sad that whatever demons Alex has caused him to use steroids when it is obvious that he was blessed with amazing talents. I’m sorry that MLB turned a blind eye and actually fostered an atmosphere that made this an okay thing to do. I’m sorry that the media collectively turned on one of its own when Mark MacGwire was found to have PEDs in his locker and instead of crying outrage screamed “Do you think you’re going to break the record today Mark?????”

    I lay this, all of it, at the feet of the MLB that was hungry to put bodies back in seats and the media that was hungry to keep selling newspapers and keep the Neilsen ratings pumping.

    The only ones I don’t blame are us, the innocent and devoted fans. We certainly didn’t know all of this was going on.

    I’m so sad for Arod because he didn’t need that stuff to be great; but obviously something in the atmosphere of the game told him he did and it was okay to do it. I’m sad for his legacy of greatness because I have to believe that it will be tarnished. I’m sad for us because some of us feel very let down. I personally despise this whole steroid era stuff. I’d love to see Selig either come out and rule that a 50-game suspension is the first penalty and expulsion from the game is the second – or step down as Commissioner.

    I don’t want this to go away until MLB and the Players Union leadership is no longer recognizable, until we get some of the harshest penalties and until a totally independent testing lab is involved. I want Congress on MLB like a cheap suit until some real changes are made. And yes, I want Selena Roberts jailed if she doesn’t reveal her sources.

    I reserve the right to have my upset with Alex using steroids tied for first with my upset that someone leaked court-protected information. And nobody calling me names or suggesting I am less-than-bright is going to change that.

    Coming full circle, a huge thank you to the most unlikely source, Tony Massarotti. I have to say here is a journalist with integrity because he seems to get that even though we shouldn’t be throwing laurel wreaths in Arod’s direction, we also shouldn’t be celebrating the fact that out of 104 names on a list, only one was thrown into the spotlight.

    Here’s a guess for you. Someone writing a “tell all” book about Arod is certainly more suspect in terms of her motivation for printing leaked information than, say, some poor harworking journalist who has an impeccable reputation and honestly happened upon just one piece of information.

    As Massarotti pointed out, 3.5 per 40-man roster; and he guesses we’re not talking all utility players.

    This will play out the way it plays out. I have the Yankee organization’s back, and I have Arod’s back, and I have the team’s back, and I will root like crazy for another championship. And no matter what fans say what about a tainted championship, I will at least live with the knowledge that 3.5 out of 40 could mean that any team that makes it potentially has a tainted championship. Right now this is what it is. I have already had my 15 minutes of moral indignation. I will now reserve any further for the ones who deserve it the most – the leadership of the MLB and players union.

    GO YANKEES!

  253. SJ44 February 9th, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Ham,

    He “stopped hustling” because he was playing with a torn quad. That limits how hard you can run.

    Pat,

    The media moralizing on this issue is as phony (at least to me) as guys using PED’s.

    Its over the top, its agenda driven, and it serves no purpose.

    If the media thinks of themselves as “gatekeepers of the game”, then step up and admit YOU FAILED in that aspect by keeping your collective mouths shut during this era.

    If not, just cover the games and leave the moralizing to someone else.

    We have Bill Madden today telling the Yankees to “eat 270 million dollars and get rid of Arod”.

    Is he serious? Does he really think that makes any sense?

    The Yankees need to get rid of the best player on the team, a guy who has NEVER flunked a drug test while a member of the Yankees, because he flunked on in 2003 while in Texas?

    When you write something that dumb, how can he expect anybody to take him serious as a baseball columnist anymore?

    One of the dumbest things EVER written by someone who is supposed to know something about the game.

  254. Laura - Standing behind Alex! February 9th, 2009 at 8:34 am

    “The media moralizing on this issue is as phony (at least to me) as guys using PED’s.”

    It is and Pete’s post is a bit over the top and filled with a bit too much joy in my opinion. The media is enjoying this more than Alex’s haters are. This is a story they can ride all season. It’ll make their jobs easier.

    This notion that we can dump Alex is hysterical. I posted it before; his contract is an unmovable object. And if Madden thinks the Yankees are giving Alex 270mil for nothing, someone needs to check what drugs he’s been ingesting.

  255. ANSKY February 9th, 2009 at 8:36 am

    At this point, I actually yearn for a game thread.

  256. Bronxbeliever February 9th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    What a joke this is. Cheated the game??? Really? Like stealing signs , corking a bat, scuffing a ball?? What’s the ‘legacy’ of those players for their blatant cheating? Typical inane group think. The media of this era should get an asterick.

  257. Brad February 9th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    As soon the the entire list is aired out we’ll hear some stunned silence in particular from Boston.

    http://www.homeruncards.com/im.....-ultra.jpg

  258. Ham fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Everyone is making such a big deal about this story. I spoke to a person involved with Major League baseball. He said that over 60 % of baseball players are doing some kind of steriods or HGH. The reason? MONEY !! You can get 20 million a year or you can be lucky enough to sign a contract as we are seeing today with some of the former stars of game are not signed at this moment or just signed to smaller contracts. Labs around the world are working on the new drug that can be undetected by normal tests & yes you can have these for MONEY!! Let see , You can ride a bus in Staten Island or Have someone get you your coffee at Yankee stadium. What is the choice?? Money!! Why are people so suprised- Enron, Barry Madoff, Citi field- It is all about Money!! Athletes in every sport are trying to find the edge & this has been going on since sports began. Yes I am sure that Babe Ruth need some kind of pick me up after be out all night with no sleep. Mickey Mantle , Whitey Ford ? baseball had the Pot of coffee with speed in it forever. Because it was good for you. No, because players preformed better on it . & it all comes back to filling the stands & people spending $20 for a hot dog & soda [ MONEY !!!}

  259. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here February 9th, 2009 at 8:38 am

    Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    “A-Hole.
    Oh that NY Post.. :shock:

    They aren’t calling him an a-hole. They are saying he dug himself into a hole. Hence the back page: a-lone.

    ====================

    I know that.
    But if some random person just quickly glances at the front page of the NY Post-all they see is A-Hole.
    Typical NY Post

  260. ANSKY February 9th, 2009 at 8:38 am

    I’m not convinced this isn’t all about Jose Canseco.

  261. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:39 am

    no sj, i was talking about after that, when he said he was completly healed. my biggest outrage was when he didnt hustle and obviously turned a triple into a double, i about lost it.

    but after the game kim jones asked him if he thought it was out of the park and he said something like ‘yeah, i guess i did, i need to stop doing that’ so you cant call me on it if he called himself on it after the game.

    btw, he did it again later that week but i didnt see him do it after that. and i was pissed at the time but got over it quickly.

  262. Ham Fighters February 9th, 2009 at 8:40 am

    obviously the ham fighters with the bold type wasnt me

  263. Cool Eddy February 9th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    It’s good to see your standing by your player by condemning him a cheater. Nice job Pete. There are still way too many unknowns to confidently say Alex did it. We still don’t know for a fact that Clemens cheated. Everyone believes he does because of people like you, who say it’s a fact when it has not yet been proven.

  264. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    “my biggest outrage was when he didnt hustle and obviously turned a triple into a double, i about lost it.”

    Ham:

    Based on this, I assume we can count you among those who want no part of Manny Ramirez (aka The Crumdog Millionaire) on the Yankees.

  265. ANSKY February 9th, 2009 at 8:44 am

    “Phil Parcells February 9th, 2009 at 6:59 am

    You know, I beginning to think Madonna is juiced. I mean, she’s over 50, yet she’s ripped like a 20 year old linebacker.”

    *******************************************************

    I wonder … would Jose Canseco be willing to testify in court that he once gave her injections?

    And maybe he’ll wink at the judge after he says it.

  266. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Trisha -

    Some fans didn’t know what was going on to the extent it seemingly was. I think most fans knew that some players weren’t on the up-and-up. But you can’t across-the-board exonerate all the fans as innocent bystanders.

    We participated in the sense that we ate it all up. We loved the HRs and pretty much demanded our teams to go out and get the biggest, strongest, most productive free agents out there. In the sense that back when the games offered a lot of pitching duels, attendance was nowhere near what it is today. Let’s face it – it’s fun to watch the strong man send the baseball to the moon, no matter how he does it.

    I am sometimes a fairly naive person. But at this point, I have to say, the only time we’re outraged about this is when a particular player is named. When the practice is more or less anonymous, we can all ignore it. When our favorite players are implicated, or the most prodigious players, we are forced to pay attention.

  267. Mike February 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am

    A-Rod sucks. Period. Just another reason to hate him. The guy who needs to be loved in order to perform is in for one hell of a rocky season. The real crime is when the Yankees have to actually pay this jackass bonuses for reaching homerun milestones. And Hank should never be allowed to make another baseball decision again. The best thing that should’ve happened for this team was when he opted out to take his choking ways elsewhere.

  268. BL February 9th, 2009 at 8:47 am

    Release the 103 players names, is Ortiz on the list, how about Youk his head is as big as Bonds, how about Howard , Pujols or Hamilton from Texas,is it possible to hit a ball that far without being jucied. If Manny signs with the Yanks will we hear he is a user in 2 or 3 weeks, why does he wear such baggy uniforms, is he covering something? The can is open let the worms out.I want to know who else is a “cheater”.

  269. Major Deegan February 9th, 2009 at 8:50 am

    Wouldn’t it be great if Major league baseball players could be a little bit like professional wrestlers with bad guys and good guys.

    A bad guy A-Rod is what I would like to see. One who comes up to bat like the Iron Sheik lustily accepting the boos from the stands. One that doesn’t have to worry about whether people like him or not. (cause they NEVER will) Picture it, he hits a home run and flips off the entire stadium. That would be awesome!

    Other potential bad guys…Rodger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Pete Rose, Mike Mussina could have been his miserable self, Pedro Martinez. Rob Dibble, oh wait he actually did that. That was awesome!

  270. gayle February 9th, 2009 at 8:51 am

    I also have a problem with the double standard fans and some of the media have when it comes to this issue.

    Pettite cheated, Giambi cheated, Brian Roberts cheated, Jack cust cheated many other current players were named in the Mitchell report.

    However it is ok if the Yankees re-sign Pettite, it is ok to chear for Jason Giambi when he hits a walkoff HR to win a big game. It is ok for Baltimore fans to beg their owner to sign Roberts to a multi-year contract. But Arod? Burn him at the cross, void his contract. Are you serious.

    Arod is an easy target yes because he has other issues that I think we can all agree he has but why should he be treated differently by media and fans. Is it because he is so good??

    WHy arent media and fans caling for Jason Giambi’s MVP to be taken away. WHy is it to easy to get on the bandwagon and really hope that Andy pitches the last game at Yankee STadium because he deserves it. He cheated. By Arod standards he doesnt deserve a thing other than to be sitting in his home in Houston.

    To me this is the biggest joke of them all.

  271. jennifer February 9th, 2009 at 8:52 am

    By CINDY ADAMS

    Last updated: 2:21 am
    February 9, 2009
    Posted: 2:06 am
    February 9, 2009

    BETWEEN the tabloids, Blow Torre and Sports Illustrated, ain’t been a good time for Alex Rodriguez. I know for sure for sure that, pre-this week’s story saying he’d used ster oids, last week’s story saying he’d been catting around the Bahamas isn’t so.

    Natasha, his and ex-wife Cynthia’s baby daughter, had been in Miami Children’s Hospital. Staph infection. Where it came from, nobody knows. But so severe she’d been on IV in a serious care unit five days. Both parents were there. At her bedside. Says Cynthia: “In terms of our kids, we work together.” A-Rod was low-profile and attentive.

  272. jennifer February 9th, 2009 at 8:53 am

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/02.....154218.htm

    Not sure why my post didn’t show. But apparently Alex’s kid is pretty sick.

  273. ANSKY February 9th, 2009 at 8:56 am

    I’m actually more interested in getting to the bottom of the sources and motives here. Those people probably have some music to face, but they’ll talk their out of theft of information or blackmail charges with some immunity deal instead. I’m more bothered by that than what was leaked and who’s implicated.

  274. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 8:58 am

    Gayle, I would assume (or hope?) that when he has the opportunity to speak on this, that Arod will own up, apologize, and be able to move on in much the way Pettitte and Giambi have.

  275. gayle February 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    Steve–

    I agree I certainly do hope that he fesses up. My question is will fans treat him with the same forgiveness that some do Andy and Jason?

    Me I tend to doubt it thus the double standard in my book. It seems if you are a preceived nice guy, a man of faith, a guy that jokes around and has a good relationship you are forgiven. If you are Arod and you apologize you will never be forgiven.

  276. howard February 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    I say: go to a lockout, demand Fehr & Orza’s head, and do everything you can to demand testing (and whatever else they want) in the name of “cleaning up the game.” If the owners can afford it (and with revenue down anyway, can’t they?) it will probably be the most popular professional sports work stoppage in history.

  277. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 9:04 am

    “I’m actually more interested in getting to the bottom of the sources and motives here.”

    Motivation doesn’t really mean much at this point, but who the sources are is an interesting question. Who, under the threat of some potentially hefty legal reprecussions, would spill on this? And isn’t it hard to believe that there are FOUR of them?

    Some scuttlebut that the former Mrs. Arod spilled. Perhaps her ex-husband told her in confidence back when they were not at odds. Still, confirming sources would have to have some access to the names on the list and would be in some sort of violation by confirming.

  278. O'Dog February 9th, 2009 at 9:04 am

    This is why reporters shouldn’t be the gatekeepers to the Hall of Fame – it seems as though every columnist ha convicted A-Rod without waiting for all the evidence – or even a statement for that matter. Granted, all of the evidence will probably never surface (and to be completely honest, I’m not certain that the story is completely false, but instead, I’m waiting for more information), but the fact remains that unfounded stories and here say have as much of a part in HOF voting as performance these days. It would be very sad if Alex is clean and never did participate in drug use because most HOF voters have already made up their minds.

  279. Phil Parcells February 9th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Jen-

    I’m not sure I believe Cindy Adams story. remember Selena Roberts says she caught up with ARod at the gym, not at his daughter’s sick bed.

  280. jennifer February 9th, 2009 at 9:07 am

    howard most popular for who? I can’t wait for the baseball season to start. I am sick to death of this steroids talk. The baseball owners knew this was going on, why aren’t you calling for Bud’s head?

  281. jennifer February 9th, 2009 at 9:09 am

    Phil- She has a quote from Cynthia. It has probably been kept quiet since they don’t want the media there.

  282. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Gayle:

    You may be right. Recall that it wasn’t all peaches and cream for Giambi. Lot of fans were calling for his head during a couple of lost $20M seasons in ’04 and ’07.

    I do think that if Arod is up front and contrite about this, he’s going to be okay. I don’t envision his production falling off the table. He makes good and keeps producing at a high level, I think things work out for him.

  283. Flavor Boy February 9th, 2009 at 9:11 am

    Wait a minute – someone did steroids?

  284. BL February 9th, 2009 at 9:13 am

    This reporter has four sources that have knowledge of the list and they only leak 1 name of the 104 on the list. Why wouldn’t they give her all the names or at least 4 or 5 of the top players on the list. If it smells like fish leave it on the dish.

  285. jennifer February 9th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    bl- Because she has a vendetta against Alex. She is writing a not so nice book on him. She was only seeking his name. She didn’t care to hear the others in the list.

  286. Steve from CT February 9th, 2009 at 9:15 am

    There really is only one way for a-rod to put this all behind him, and he would have to oppose the union on this one:’

    First, come clean on the 2003 season. Admit to taking PEDs (if, in fact, the story is true). Apologize without rationalizing. Just admit you made a mistake. Second, volunteer for weekly PED testing throughout the 2009 season, while, at the same time, putting up MVP-type numbers. That should settle the question once and for all.

    There’s every reason to believe that, even without PEDs, A-Rod is still the best player in baseball. Now, just prove that you’re clean and go out and BE the best player in baseball. Case closed.

  287. Rishi February 9th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Not sure if this has already been posted — I took a break from all this over the weekend :)

    From Rob Neyer:

    However it shakes out, A-Rod still a great player

    Saturday, February 7, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry

    Today — Feb. 7, 2009 — a date which will live in infamy …

    At least for Alex Rodriguez.

    His image, so obviously, so often clumsily constructed, has been shattered into a million tiny pieces. You could say whatever you wanted about his astronomical salaries and his postseason struggles and his “Single White Female” relationship with Derek Jeter, but you couldn’t argue that he wasn’t perhaps the most talented baseball player on the planet.

    Until now, perhaps. Now, some of the pundits will argue that A-Rod wasn’t so great after all; and further, that even if he was a great player, his (alleged) cheating should taint his entire legacy and perhaps even keep him out of the Hall of Fame.

    But then there’s this …

    I’m reading Tom Verducci’s new book, and flagging passages worth returning to later. As you’ve no doubt heard, most of the material about Alex Rodriguez isn’t particularly flattering. I’ve flagged most of those parts. But I also flagged this one:

    Rodriguez did impress his teammates with a relentless work ethic. They found him to be the baseball equivalent of a gym rat. He knew everything going on around baseball and he never stopped working. One night in 2007 he showed up in the dugout 10 minutes before the first pitch with blood dripping from his hands and knees. “What the hell happened to you?” somebody asked.

    Rodriguez explained that he just had been running full tilt on the treadmill in the weight room when the belt broke and he went flying off the back end of the machine, skinning his hands and knees as he was thrown into a wall. Who the hell ran at sprinting speed on a treadmill right before a game was about to start? The most talented player in baseball did. That was A-Rod, too.

    “Nobody has ever worked harder in my memory than this guy,” [Joe] Torre said. “Jeter, I’m sure he does his weight work in the wintertime. In the summertime he gets dressed and gets the hell out of there. He doesn’t hang out. Nobody’s in better shape than Alex. Nobody works harder than Alex. For a star player, who gets there as early as he gets there, and still he might hear Coach Larry Bowa say, ‘You need to take groundballs.’ And he’ll do whatever it takes. He’ll do it all the time. He’s just a workaholic.”

    Said Bowa, “If he missed on a slow roller, the next day he’s out there early and we’re working on slow rollers. If he missed a backhand, the next day we’re working on backhands. This guy would be the first one to admit, ‘I need to work on that,’ or, ‘I didn’t approach that ball the right way, so let’s go work on it.’ And that’s why he was such a great player.”

    I hope Alex Rodriguez didn’t cheat. If we do find out that he cheated, I will wish that he hadn’t. But whatever happens, I’m not going to change my opinion that he’s a great baseball player. Like many of the greatest players, he’ll do whatever it takes to be the best player he can be. For a stretch of five or 10 years — and yes, perhaps even today still — being the best player could have meant cheating. Maybe the cheaters were wrong; that’s the direction in which I lean, probably because I’ve got a streak of the moralist in me. But I will not sit idly while great athletes looking for an edge — not all that different from the many generations before them — are demonized by the high priests of baseball opinion. I will not.

  288. Vito February 9th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Some ramblings…
    Arod in 2007 was being tested, yes? Had his best year ever. If he is clean and still producing while clean then what is the big deal? Back in 03 when he allegedly failed his test there were no penalties. I want to see the other 100+ names and see if the outrage for them is as great. I personally don’t like the guy but this is turning into a witch hunt on him when he is far from the only guy involved. Until he responds I am withholding judgment. In the last year we had the opt out drama, the divorce drama + Madonna thing, the book drama, now this. Hell maybe we can ship him to Anaheim, pay half his salary and sign Joe Crede for a year. More drama is one thing this team won’t need. One positive – CC, AJ ,and Tex all under the radar now…

  289. Trevor February 9th, 2009 at 9:19 am

    His whole career should be in question now. I don’t know when he started doing PEDs but I doubt it was only in 2003.
    My guess is he started during his Mariner days. And I also doubt he has stopped since becoming a Yankee.
    Not after a couple of ST ago when it was reported that he is being tested more then anyone else.
    This would mean for the majority of his career thus far, he has been using PEDs. I can see why him going into the HOF is in question now.

  290. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 9:22 am

    so selig knew arod was on the list.

    fehr and orza knew arod was on the list.

    novitzty knew arod was on the list.

    george mitchell knew arod was on the list.

    judges, lawyers, paralegals in northern california knew alex was on the list.

    this is a very good list to have.

    why do i think the red sox have it ?

    and the yankees don’t.

    the good news is that unless red sox management is very good at deception, teixeira is not on that list.

    the yankees simply need to build around what they have.

    i said during the torre brouhaha that alex was not a real yankee so i didn’t care that torre said the things he did.

    same here. real yankees are what make yankee championships. find those guys, and build the team around them.

    alex, if he’s not dumb enough to fall for novitszy’s perjury traps will provide numbers.

    it’s up to real yankees who make up the core, to take alex’s and other non real yankees’ numbers and to turn them into winning.

    jeter, posada,and rivera are all we know for sure as being real yankees.

    win a championship and add joba, wang, , cano, hughes to the core and the core gets passed on.

    add a championship and maybe sabathia and teixeira earn their stripes.

    it’s not over with the yankees. they just need to regroup more than ever around jeter , mo , and posada and win.

    that fixes everything.

    cashman’s and girardi’s job right now is to get everyone focused on the core they have.

    if they can’t see it and provide some positive leadership, then they will be replaced by someone who can.

  291. Tom February 9th, 2009 at 9:24 am

    We can talk about Roberts and her motives for outing Alex untill the cows come home. However, the story isn’t Roberts or her book. The story is that Alex cheated. If he never cheated his name would not be on that list. The anger that is floating around here against the media is misguided. Alex is the one who cheated.

  292. SJ44 February 9th, 2009 at 9:26 am

    Why would you ask questions you don’t know the answer to, answer them the way you want to answer them, and then form an opinion?

    If he has been tested say, 50 times since 2004, and came up clean everytime, doesn’t that change your hypothesis?

    Its probably better to wait and hear both sides of the story before forming opinions based on false conclusions.

  293. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    “If he has been tested say, 50 times since 2004, and came up clean everytime, doesn’t that change your hypothesis?”

    BUT! He was tipped off 50 times!!! lol

  294. DCDave February 9th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    You know, this really doesn’t bother me. The whole steroids witch hunt is waaaay overblown, much like anything related to “drugs” in this country.

    Two issues stand out for me. One, and as Curt Schilling remarked a few years ago, the owners have found the one issue they can use over the players union, and they are going to try leverage that issue to break the union. Schilling warned about it what? Five years ago? The MLBPA is the strongest collective bargaining unit perhaps the world has ever seen, and they are opposed by some of the most anti-union, right-wing businessmen in that same world. The owners have lost every round of the fight, and now they have something that’s a “winner” for them. While I have no doubt that they looked the other way because people like to see hitters blast dingers and it filled the stands, I think the owners also knew it was a Trojan Horse that would eventually weaken the union. Of course, it could easily destroy the entire game, but if you hate the union enough, you might be blinded to the overall health of the game (MLB has always done a poor job marketing their game, in part because they don’t promote “stars” like other leagues).

    Secondly, I’ve always viewed the steroid witch hunt through the prism of America’s insane “war on drugs.” The fact that this Jeff Novitzky character can hop from one federal agency to another pursuing his psychotic quest to make the world safe from home run hitters is beyond my comprehension. Our government spents billions upon billions of dollars “fighting” drugs, prosecuting people, and locking people up for many, many years at an enormous cost to taxpayers…and what’s the gain? I don’t see it. Yeah, doing drugs is really, really stupid, but there are also demonstrable benefits (see Marijuana, medical) and there is a fine line between an illegal perfomance enhancind drug and one that is allowed (my favorite was Mark McGwire getting “caught” with Andro in his locker, even though it was perfectly legal to use in MLB at the time…what else is out there?). Our taxes are funding this nonsnse and yet somehow I don’t feel any safer, nor will it be any harder for my kids to get drugs on the street. You know, the NY Times ran a series of articles about the long term negative health affects of high school football players–playing through injuries, concussions, etc. These are KIDS being abused by a system, yet no one in the government seems to care…oh, wait, it’s football. Move along, nothing to see here…

    That all being said, A-Rod is a megalomaniac, much like Roger Clemens. What Peter failed to note was the biggest abusers are also some of the wealthiest players ever. Clemens made the stupid mistake of (allegedly) lying under oath. McGwire only has to live with his own shame but still lives in a mansion in California. What will A-Rod’s fate be? If he comes clean, he has a chance at redemption. If he takes the McGwire/Clemens right, it’s pariah time and the next 9 years will be bleak ones for the Yanks. They should have let him go when he opted out…he gave them a gift opportunity and they let it slip out of their hands.

  295. MaineYankee February 9th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    randy

    I think the term real Yankee has taken a big hit. At this point I’m not sure you can believe that any player is real. It bothers me to feel that way but my level of trust gets worse with each new name comes out.

  296. JohnBlacksox February 9th, 2009 at 9:33 am

    You know how people wear yellow wrist bands to support Lance Armstrong?

    Maybe ARod apologists could agree to all wear aubergine colored ascots in support of ARod.

  297. Jeterian Swing February 9th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    I’m not sure if this has been addressed or not, but a few things are really boggling my mind:

    This reporter is making, what, $75K a year? Maybe she got a $200K advance on this book? HOW IS IT POSSIBLE that the Yankees — a multibillion dollar organization that invested $300 MILLION in A-Rod — did not know about this positive test?

    And if they did know, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE that they invested this money without making sure that evidence would never see the light of day?

    A-Rod’s contract is essentially structured so that he will be rewarded for setting a “clean” HR record. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE that said contract includes NO language wherein the deal is off if ANY evidence of steroid use, past or present, rears its ugly head?

    After Giambi? The Yankees did not see it necessary to include such clauses?

    That’s INEXCUSABLE!

    This contract was dubious to begin with — but justifiable insofar as the player would presumably be productive through the first six years and the team would presumably reap countless financial rewards for him surpassing Bonds’ record sometime during year 8 or so. Now? The contract is an albatross! The added value is worthless! Nonexistent! In a Depression economy!! And because the Yankees did not do their due diligence?!

    You mean to tell me the Yankees invested $300 million in a player — whom they surely deemed to be worth at least twice that much in revenue — and they did not know about this? That they did not plan for this?

    That is completely and totally insane. I truly CANNOT believe it.

  298. Just another handle. February 9th, 2009 at 9:37 am

    A little steroid story.

    Back in the 80′s when I was on a business trip from the Wash. D.C. area to Iowa and after staying overnight in Ohio I awoke the next morning with a terrible cold, sore throat and fuzzy head that made driving and or working very difficult.

    I visited a ER at a hospital and told the doctor that I needed to continue my trip that would require my working in Iowa in a physically demanding way for several days.

    They gave me a shot in the butt and within a short time I was literally “a new man” and felt great.

    Sounds good, huh?

    Not so good. When we arrived at our hotel later that evening I could not even carry my own luggage up to my room. All I could do was sit on the side of my bed and literally shake like a person having convulsions with my teeth chattering violently.

    The shot had worn off.

    A couple of days later I was flown back home as I was not able to work in the condition I was in. Would another shot have helped? I don’t know but I was not anxious to find out after my experience with the first one when it wore off.

    Anyone else have any experience with steroids?

  299. DCStack February 9th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    “That is the legacy Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, A-Rod and the rest of them leave. Thanks to their lack of integrity, every player in the sport has become a suspect.”

    Pointing the finger at these four players is completely naive and wrong. It wasn’t their lack of integrity that made everyone a suspect. They were just playing the game that everyone else was playing. When over half of players are using (and that is a conservative estimate), the playing field isn’t level. Four players do not make that field uneven. They picked the side of the majority.

    Steroids made there way into the game because it could make players better than other players. It is a competition. Throughout the history of baseball, and all sports, players have looked for an edge. Just last week Rick Cerrone was laughing it up with Francesca discussing how many pitchers doctored the ball while he played, including his own participation in the acts. They treated it as if it were joke. And how many people on this blog have laughed at the Gaylord Perry stories. Yet, we somehow treat PEDs differently.

    The bottom line is players will do what they need to do to gain an edge and until 2004 MLB did not treat PEDs as something worthy of even disciplining. If PEDs are a huge stain on the game, it is not the players who stained the game. It was baseball management who decided that PEDs didn’t matter. Then one day they got religion and proceeded to damn the sinners. It is a crock.

  300. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    You know, throughout the years on his blog, I have seen the term “apologist” thrown around whenever someone supports someone that someone else does not. To me, it infers that the person supporting the opposite person is somehow less informed.

    Would someone care to define the term? Because, actually, I’m finding it offensive. The term, not the people who use it. Why not the term “supporter?”

  301. pat February 9th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    “Mariano Rivera never seems to take a step back. Suspect.”

    In Mo’s defense, you have to remember that he is absolutly terrified of needles. Hence him never getting a cortizone shot even when it has been deemed that it would help him recover.

  302. Patrick February 9th, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Good post Pete, I’m having trouble coming to grips with this story. As a Yankee fan I want my team to win and A-rod is the best player on the team but he is obviously a cheater. How can I not cheer him and want him to succeed? But at the same time I don’t even want him on the team anymore. I think the fans are in a tough spot right now.

    I just hope that A-rod comes clean like Pettitte and Giambi did.

    I think its safe to say that A-rod started juicing in Texas. That team was full of juicers. Also during his days with the Mariners he was still a relatively skinny guy. It wasn’t until Texas that he really bulked up. Pete has implied several times that A-rod is probably still doing steroids that are undetectable but I’m not so sure. The Yankee fan in me says that he hasn’t tested positive since he’s been a Yankee and he hit 54 home runs in 2007 so he doens’t need roids anyways.

    Anyways.. I think Jim Duquette had a great comment on the whole situation this morning on XM home plate. He said that this will be known as the steroid era and that we should assume that a large percentage of MLB players were juicing. Keeping that in mind, A-rod was the best player in that era and still continues to be.

    This whole situation is unfortunate but I think the game is getting cleaner. We saw the effects this year with less hitting, less home runs and a team like the Rays who don’t depend on power making it to the world series.

  303. dadofjft February 9th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Pete, I’m with you on this post. I never understood the people who said they were through with baseball after the ’94 debacle. C’mon, I thought, it’s baseball, how can you let a labor dispute ruin it for you?

    But now I think I know how those folks felt. These last few years have really been squeezing the joy out of the game for me. It’s getting hard to root for the uniform when it’s filled with cheaters.

  304. Fran February 9th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    Pat – steroids can be taken orally, they don’t have to be injected. I have to say at this point there is no name that could come out that would surprise me anymore.

  305. rodg12 February 9th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    “It’s ridiculous that Michael Phelps got three months for a bong hit and A-Rod gets zippo for using Primobolan and testosterone.”

    Oh, please. Phelps equivalent suspension in baseball would be to suspend ARod for the months of November, December and January. Big freaking deal. Tell me one major thing Phelps is going to miss during his ‘suspension.’ He doesn’t miss this year’s World Championships. He doesn’t miss an Olympics. He has just started training again so it’s more than likely he wouldn’t have been competition ready for 3 months. That suspension was a joke that panders to the masses clamoring for USA Swimming to do something. It doesn’t have any real teeth. Give me a freaking break with that comparison.

  306. pat February 9th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    9:39 post not me

    Doreen

    “The term, not the people who use it.”

    What a concept, someone who can separate the person from the act. :wink:

    The word is meant to be offensive and to imply the person doing the “supporting” is less than informed.

  307. Pokey February 9th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Pete,

    Where is the “I don’t care if he tested positive” option in the poll?

    Also, the Black Sox thing was the culmination of a huge fixing problem in baseball, not a shocking one-time thing. Heck, if Landis really wanted to clean up the game he could have booted Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb for the same thing.

    As far as the HOF goes, it won’t be a real HOF until Shoeless, Rose and Munson are in.

  308. MYGIRLS February 9th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Please Pete, stop. My 10 yr old son has won more titles in baseball than the Fraud has. Hope the Fraud doesn’t get into the hall hitting 900 homers. He’s a cheater and a liar. I rather go 0-162 than have Fraud’s on my team.

  309. dave February 9th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    “if you considered it a breach of arod’s privacy for his name to be outted, how can you then advocate breaching 103 other people’s privacy just so arod doesnt feel so bad?”

    Ham,

    Isnt it obvious why those who support arod and think this whole thing stinks would want the rest of the players ousted. Its because it takes the angry mob of reported and fans off arods back. Its the same reason why this hack, roberts only released arods name out of 104 possible candidates in which she probably could have gotten multiple names – she wanted the blame solely on arod because she hates him and wants to destroy his career and his life and we who support him want the exact opposite. We want the wrath spread around. i MEAN it was NOT fair that arod’s name was the only one released and at this point, it would be even less “fair” if someone decides to start being moral and ethical and makes the names private once again.

    Of course, I want all the names on that list out for the entire world to see at this point. I mean the law was already broken and they brought down the biggest name in sports who just happens to be a yankee. They opened the flood gates once again with this trash and now we have to wade around in it looking for some way it actually help any one. They might as well release the rest or certainly bring on a lawsuit from arod. Even if he is guilty, this was clearly illegal and a breach of privacy laws.

    The government siezed anonymous documents, sealed them to themselves and reporters and then, let it out for the world to see via a reporter. What is that all about?? And weren’t you the one supporting pettitte for lying and taking hgh. Im sure arod will admit it and apologize just like pettitte did now that his back is against a wall. Why the double standard? I had a lot more faith in pettitte being an honest person than I did in arod. No one ever accused arod of being an honest, church-going, family man like the person that pettitte played on tv for a while.

  310. MaineYankee February 9th, 2009 at 9:49 am

    randy

    Your theory about the RS having inside info is a bit misguided. They were in on ARod but the union would’nt let them defer some of his contract. Do you think they have’nt signed some users since 03?

  311. janedoh February 9th, 2009 at 9:50 am

    I am probably in the minority, but I just don’t care much about his whole steroids thing. I suspect that speed was WAAAAY more performance enhancing than steroids, given what we know about how steroids work (more muscle builds in the upper body than in the lower, whereas for baseball you really want lower body power). I suspect most of the steroid users started using when they were hurt, and continued using to try to keep the ravages of the 162 game schedule at bay.

    Most people don’t care at all that their beloved heroes used speed, even though it was illegal at the time, since it wasn’t banned by baseball. The same can be said for steroids in 2003. Now that steroids (and speed for that matter) are officially banned by baseball, it is officially cheating and should be rooted out. But in 2003? I just don’t care.

  312. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    “Please Pete, stop. My 10 yr old son has won more titles in baseball than the Fraud has. Hope the Fraud doesn’t get into the hall hitting 900 homers. He’s a cheater and a liar. I rather go 0-162 than have Fraud’s on my team.”

    It’s funny how these “standup” people just appear here once something damning comes out about the Yankees. I come here every day and never see any names like MYGIRL.

    It’s funny though, you have a fraud coming into a room to post about a fraud.

  313. The Big P February 9th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Baseball overcame the stike with the juice race of 98.

    you can say lack of integrity made these guys get on roids, but they are being paid millions based on performance. these athletes are in gyms working all year and then like every gym across the us come summer time you see a bunch of guys join the gym looking like nothing, hit a cycle and look good for summer with no repurcussions. It must be pretty tempting to see the results in your face and know you have a lot more to benefit from taking steroids then the averege guy. and you have guys who any person who lifted a weight can tell is juicing on the cover of the papers being glorified for breakign records.

    the games has evolved, bats are better, gloves better, clothing like under armour, and even sunglasses. Same goes with biochemestry, can either ignore what is available and play at disadvantage or get on board and make extra cash and be the hr hitting hero. If politicians don’t want these guys lying about juicing they should work on making juice less available especially in high schools where it is starting.

  314. rodg12 February 9th, 2009 at 9:52 am

    ‘The media moralizing on this issue is as phony (at least to me) as guys using PED’s.’

    Totally agree SJ. It absolutely makes me sick. The other part is the double standards. Especially Pete. He openly pined for the Yankees to resign Giambi who is an admitted steroid user and (as Pete so vehemently points out in ARod’s case) could be using a brand new designer steroid that is undetectable to recoup his game the last couple years. He has the money. They worked for him in the past right? That means he’s gotta still be one them. Or at least that Pete’s logic for ARod. Not Giambi though. Where was the disgust for Giambi? The anger?

  315. JohnBlacksox February 9th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    The Material Girl and the Primobolan Boy.

    Too soon?

  316. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    “Your theory about the RS having inside info is a bit misguided. They were in on ARod but the union would’nt let them defer some of his contract. Do you think they have’nt signed some users since 03?”

    Vaughn, BIG Papi, Gagne, Byrd, Theo Epstein

  317. JeffG February 9th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    I’ve posted some of this before on another site – weeks before the A-Rod scandal hit:

    Undoubtedly for the past couple of years I have tried to ignore the steroid conversation as it has distracted too many from the simple game of baseball. Sad as it was, half of baseball’s coverage in 2007 was dedicated to the subject of steroids rather than the actual game. But now that it is subsiding, perhaps it is something that should be discussed openly and truthfully – without the knee-jerk, good guy, bad-guy mentality – and hopefully with some common sense.

    From the late 80’s until 2000-whatever players where doing nothing different as they bent the rules in any way they could to their team the win. That is really the history of baseball – is it not? That is competition. There was a long day ago when the curveball was ungentlemanly. A stolen base is stolen. We’ve all seen guys try to sneak down to first when they knew they were out. To a degree cheating has always been a part of the game. You can think of scuffed balls, corked bats, spitters and Vaseline under the cap, stolen signs, and speed – the first of the PEDs to be widely used.

    There are many examples in our game of players looking to get an edge even if that edge is a little dirty. So why are steroids so much worse? I’d guess it’s because steroids changed the game so much. They challenged our sense of history and what a great player was capable of. Steroids pumped up the numbers. But why, and why for so long? The reason was because there was a blind eye as most fans liked what they saw. They loved the numbers until the argument was raised that what they were seeing was a cheat. I think people were fine with the home runs, and the super play. However, in the end, their heroes were vilified. Their favorite players became bad guys and so they felt wronged.

    However, we have to consider that it was not an anomaly, it was, a large part of the game. And to the rule – players have always been given leeway. And in this case, I’d say they surely were for some time.

    So when do we condemn? My belief is that it happened when the commissioner’s office and the union said enough is enough. Before that, players were doing all they could for their teams, and surely for themselves. Understanding that, do you not convict the culture and what was allowed? Do you not get angry that there was no testing policy?

    There is where I have a problem. There is where I find fault in stripping individuals who still rose above their era. How do you deny them for what they accomplished?

    No one knows the percent of players that used drugs to enhance their ability. But everyone knows that there was a good many that did. Perhaps a majority, and undoubtedly, at the time, nobody did anything about it.

    However, once the cleanup began it was easy to find examples and ultimately scapegoats – the best players of that era. Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa- who probably would not have passed 61; Barry Bonds – who may have never passed Hank; Roger Clemens – who would not have finished with 354 wins.

    Do we really strip them? We’ve already taken the game away from the last two. But are we so blind, not to see that it was allowed? Are we not to blame baseball? I personally will never doubt the talent of all three mentioned. But I will doubt the logic that picks and chooses history when it never had a set date.

  318. Don February 9th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Character counts. A-rod in his personal life and now with steroids is revealed as a characterless person. This will and has had an impact on the Yankees. His contract of nine more years is a curse.

  319. Tex's New Best Friend February 9th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Character counts. A-rod in his personal life and now with steroids is revealed as a characterless person. This will and has had an impact on the Yankees. His contract of nine more years is a curse.

    This is stupid. No connections yet and no one said a word.

  320. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    “I think the term real Yankee has taken a big hit.”

    maine yankee-

    no, it’s always there. sometimes you just have to look a little deeper.

    when the crap hits the fan, that’s when you especially find out the people who have it.

    there is going to be a season. i don’t think you’re going to see jeter going through the motions.

    it’s all about attitude. the yankees are still loaded. the question is attitude. losers let things like this get them down. i mean the players and management( not the fans, i agree this is tough to take).

    look at what the yankee still have. they have the core of jeter ,posada, and mo. they have teixeira. they have sabathia. wang and cano. hughes coming.

    winners ignore the distractions and still bring their A game.

    i don’t know if cashman and girardi will be able to deal with this.
    this is where they get tested.
    can they see past the trouble and lead ?

    if not, they’ll be replaced by the all star break.

  321. Kim Jones' Husband February 9th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    I wish more players did steroids. I actually like A-Rod more now than before!

  322. Andrew February 9th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    “Where was the disgust for Giambi? The anger?”

    Being disgusted and angry about Jason Giambi didn’t make a compelling enough story. There are no records or distinctions attached to Giambi, except for one MVP award. A-Rod, however, has a “legacy”, and now sanctimonious journalists can say his it is tarnished and say that all his accomplishments deserve either an asterisk or to be stricken from the records. Also, writing this type of “everyone is a suspect!” post only works when a supposed Mr. Clean like A-Rod gets fingered. It opens the doors for the whole “nothing is sacred, the proverbial baseball sky is falling!” sentiments, and undoubtedly it drives a ton of traffic to this blog. I’m sure Gannett, The Tribune Company, NewsCorp etc. are all lovin’ it

  323. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 10:02 am

    “Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire (and Gary Sheffield, who has 499)”

    Adding Giambi to that list. It will be interesting to see how ARod responds to all this drug testing. Will he continue to dominate? All the other names listed here were exposed either at the end of their careers (out of their prime) or already retired.

  324. JasonR February 9th, 2009 at 10:03 am

    Forget “face of the steroids era”, we should take a page from ESPN and use a Mt. Rushmore of the Steroids era: Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, McGwire.

  325. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    “Your theory about the RS having inside info is a bit misguided”

    maine yankee-

    sometimes the best place to hide something is in plain view.

    mitchell was director of the red sox. he wrote the mitchell report.

    that’s the thing hidden in plain view.

    when did he become a director? was he a director the first go round with arod?

  326. Joe February 9th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    Pete, I really don’t understand your logic here. You are saying that because A-Rod’s 2003 test was positive, we can’t assume that anyone is clean?

    Huh? Why would the tests catch A-Rod (along with everyone else on that list and since then), but not catch the fellows you mention. Seems to me that plenty of folks are getting caught and suspended since the penalties began.

    Which brings me to me second point: ok, yes, A-Rod surely cheated and won an MVP. But let’s assume that he would be caught if he had been cheating since then, ok? He won two more MVPs, with 2007 being one of the greatest seasons ever by a righty. Why would a test in 2003 catch him, but not in 2005, 2006, 2007, or 2008? Makes no sense.

  327. Steve B February 9th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    “Character counts. A-rod in his personal life and now with steroids is revealed as a characterless person. This will and has had an impact on the Yankees.”

    Arod’s had an impact alright. Until he got to the Bronx, the Yankees never had as many as 3.5 million tickets sold in a season. They are now working on their 5th consecutive year of 4 million plus. Think he didn’t have some role in YES getting off the ground and enjoying success? Say what you will about his character, and I’d agree it is at times flawed, but he sells and the Yankees have benefitted from that.

  328. Drew February 9th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Anybody hear Selena Roberts on Dan Patrick this morning?

    “How did you get this information?”

    “I’m not going to talk about the process.”

    “Do you have the other 103 names.”

    “I’m not going to talk about the process.”

    Why is it that the accused is held to a higher standard than the accuser? Why do we make all of these assumptions about A-Rod’s response to Selena Roberts, who incidentally walked into one of his gyms unannounced and confronted him about the allegations out of the blue, yet we don’t care that Roberts, the accuser, isn’t even providing us with the background of her information?

    I realize that’s somewhat an apples-oranges thing, and I happen to believe A-Rod took PEDs along the way here somewhere, but it’s really annoying that Selena Roberts can get away with the same “lack of response” and nobody sees the hypocrisy.

  329. Mikey February 9th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Yanks vs Rangers in the steroid users World Series!!

  330. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 10:16 am

    “Forget “face of the steroids era”, we should take a page from ESPN and use a Mt. Rushmore of the Steroids era: Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, McGwire.”

    I’m OK with that so long as ARod is in a Texas cap and Clemens is in a Boston cap :)

  331. Pokey February 9th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Selena Roberts is the Kitty Kelley of sports reporting. I am surprised that after the Duke LAX thing anyone automatically believes a word she says.

  332. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    so folks how about that teixeira at first base?

    how about sabathia starting that first game as a yankee?

    suck it up guys; there’s going to be a season.

  333. Andrew February 9th, 2009 at 10:19 am

    “ok, yes, A-Rod surely cheated and won an MVP. But let’s assume that he would be caught if he had been cheating since then, ok? He won two more MVPs, with 2007 being one of the greatest seasons ever by a righty. Why would a test in 2003 catch him, but not in 2005, 2006, 2007, or 2008? Makes no sense.”

    The Paranoid Paulies out there will tell you that because it seems close to truthiness that he cheated in 2003, he must be cheating in ’05, ’06, ’07 and ’08 but not getting caught. Their argument would go as follows: once a cheater, always a cheater. You can not ever trust A-Rod’s cleanliness, since he has been outed as a juicer by 4 anonymous sources, whose validity and honesty has been thoroughly vetted by journalists, lawyers, doctors, scientists and astronauts alike. Therefore, it is time to start writing the eulogies for A-Rod’s legacy and career.

  334. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    just an aside, but where the hell has cb been ?

  335. Tarheelyank February 9th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    Randy
    I am looking forward to this season. It’s been a long time since we were this loaded (literally and figuratively).

    The Bronx Zoo has returned. Thats the attitude they need. The players are going to be fired up. It should be fun. As for Giradi getting fired, what better way to complete the picture then to bring back Torre. :D .

  336. grafxkid February 9th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Did anybody catch mcnamee on howard stern this morning? i was leaving to go to work and heard about 5 mins.

  337. Jeremy February 9th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Pat and SJ44 have hit the nail on the head here (as usual).

    Once again, we are roasting ARod for failing to meet our unrealistic expectations. This time it’s for failing to stay clean during a period when, apparently, just about everyone was dirty.

    According to this report, ARod juiced at a time when there was no penalty for juicing. Just think about that. If it could improve your game, why not do it? Because you care about the integrity of the sport or being a good role model? Yeah right. Any player who uses PEDs does so on the belief that he will not get caught.

    We would like to believe the drug-infused world of Canseco and Caminiti didn’t exist, or if it did, that some elite players rose above it. We have been dreaming. Baseball let players use PEDs without consequences. Many players took advantage of MLB looking the other way and used PEDs. Other players saw these juicers putting up great numbers and scoring huge contracts while using PEDs, and used PEDs themselves. Is it really more complex than that?

    I disagree with a lot of Pete’s views in this post, but he’s right that everyone is suspect. When we single out ARod, we ignore the much bigger issue: that Caminiti and Canseco were right, and that MLB and the Player’s Union looked the other way on PEDs until it was too late.

    It is not up to the players to safeguard the integrity of the game. That’s a conflict of interest – players are supposed to do everything in their power to win, and they will cheat to win if they can get away with it. It is MLB’s job to maintain that integrity. MLB failed, partially due to the opposition of the Player’s Union.

    Don’t let ARod’s status as everyone’s favorite whipping boy obscure that far more important fact.

  338. Brian February 9th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Pete, I don’t think you can rip Arod for resigning Arod, especially given what was know in 2007. Certain YES announcers (Michael Kay) have been huge defenders and advocates of Arod, implying how its natural because “no one works harder, etc.etc.” Curious to see what will be said now.

    Lets get all 104 names out there, then have mandatory testing, on a monthly basis, of all players major league and minor league by an independent firm going forward. That should at least somewhat put it to bed. Then you have the issues as to what is an what is not a steriod, etc. There will always be new formualtions, as players try to stay ahead of the testing.

  339. Brian February 9th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Sorry, meant “rip Hank for wantign to resign Arod…”

  340. Adam H, February 9th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    I’m very done with the steroids issue. I agree that this is huge and has been a major problem, but i still don’t buy statements by selig and the like that
    ‘baseball now has the toughest testing policy in sports” when as you said, guys that are found out get 3 strikes before they’re done. bottom line is if you want this to stop then it has to be one and done. this has damaged the sport far more than pete rose ever did so the consequenses should be as bad, if not worse. I also think it’s time for someone new to lead Major League Baseball. Now that all players are guilty until proven innocent I feel the same is true for the powers that be in baseball. Bottom line is after they knew a large number of players were cheating in 03, they’ve done squat since to fix it. Selig has failed and should be ousted.

  341. ALB3 February 9th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Peter, you are grossly overreacting to this story.

    I would love for the Yankees to find a way to release A-Rod without a contract of any sort, but I don’t know how that could happen.

    Look at the many things other stars went through – Kobe Bryant rape trial, for instance.

    Does anyone look at Kobe differently? Sure it wasn’t an actual rape, but he lost so much and in so short a time he’s gone back to the top.

    Alex will be fine, but I still don’t want him on my team anymore. Mark is a great fill in for him and that 30 million a year would be great to have for a couple other big bats. The next 9 years will be really long…

  342. trisha February 9th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    “Some fans didn’t know what was going on to the extent it seemingly was. I think most fans knew that some players weren’t on the up-and-up. But you can’t across-the-board exonerate all the fans as innocent bystanders.”

    Doreen, let me then speak for myself and any fans who did NOT know. I totally exonerate myself and obviously those who didn’t know. I DID NOT know.

    “We participated in the sense that we ate it all up. We loved the HRs and pretty much demanded our teams to go out and get the biggest, strongest, most productive free agents out there. In the sense that back when the games offered a lot of pitching duels, attendance was nowhere near what it is today. Let’s face it – it’s fun to watch the strong man send the baseball to the moon, no matter how he does it.”

    And the point of that is what? I don’t mean to be offensive but so what that everyone ate it up? Let me go back to me and the other fans who were innocent bystanders. I didn’t mean to implicate you as an innocent bystander if indeed you weren’t. And I guess I need to caution you the same way that WE didn’t all do one thing and not another. I can tell you that I personally wasn’t interested in the moonshots. I personally wasn’t interested in seeing Roger Maris’ record broken. I did not watch the competition.

    And personally, I was always someone who thought a great pitchers duel was the height of baseball. That always kept me on the edge of my seat. That and great defense. So no, not everyone lived for the moonshots.

    Interesting that when Derek Jeter was asked whether he felt better about doing something special at the plate or doing something special in the field, he always chose the field…

    “I am sometimes a fairly naive person. But at this point, I have to say, the only time we’re outraged about this is when a particular player is named. When the practice is more or less anonymous, we can all ignore it. When our favorite players are implicated, or the most prodigious players, we are forced to pay attention.”

    Again, I really need to caution you on the use of “we” here and I am actually insulted by your insinuation.

    I can tell you that I absolutely and unequivocally have never been able to ignore this stuff, was really upset for quite a while after the Mitchell Report came out, and am furious that as we sit MLB and the Players Union are still (in my opinion and relatively speaking) sitting idly by and doing nothing.

    And I know I am not alone in this and know that people on this forum and elsewhere have been upset beyond belief about this stuff going on and what it has done to the game we anyway believed to be pretty pure. So call us the most naive of all if you want, or the most trusting, or the most desirous of doing things the right way. It has nothing to do with a particular player being named, not for me anyway. It has everything to do with using integrity in every facet of life, the game of baseball included.

    But that’s just me.

  343. abcd February 9th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    you know what folks, i personally don’t care if they took steroids. they are human. they took substances that effect their own body. no different than alcoholics or smokers (in actuality, alcoholics and smokers could cause alot of damage to others as well).

    what is the end game here? is it to eliminate steroids? is it to discourage youngsters from using steroids? or is it something to just spend tax payers money while the US economy continues to remain in the toilet?

    why not put this on the back burner for a while until the US fixes some of it’s other, more important issues?

  344. Fan Mail From Some Flounder February 9th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    The NBA, NFL, & NHL are heaving a collective sigh and sharing a secret wink these days, no?

  345. whistleblower February 9th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Bud Selig has been doing ‘roids for years. That is the reason why he is such a mouse about the issue.

  346. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    We are who we choose to be. Alexandar chose to cheat. He made the choice to do what was wrong to get a competitive advantage with his sophisticated designer drug regimen. Why are people mad about the person who ratted him out? The people that are aghast at the rat are the enablers of societies scoundrels. Truth is freedom, not cover up and lies.

  347. Russell NY February 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    “why not put this on the back burner for a while until the US fixes some of it’s other, more important issues?”

    Because if this was David Ortiz we would be doing the same thing to RS Fans. Unfortunately Mitchell runs the reports so we won’t find out when Papi did steroids.

  348. Tantron Willoughby February 9th, 2009 at 10:40 am

    ABCD, perhaps Obama can create a steroid bailout bill for the owners, teams and fans. I would take a 50 cent per syringe Aroid tax break to ease my pain and suffering.

  349. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    jeremy-

    i don’t think for a second that everyone does steroids or could do steroids.

    some people have an internal compass that stops them from doing really stupid things.

  350. Fan Mail From Some Flounder February 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    “These are the worst of times”

    Why, because of A-rod? Hardly.

    All drama aside, these are tough times but not the “worst” and not for anything related to baseball.

    Hey, we need A-rods 40/130 this year so stop messin’ widim !!

  351. Doreen February 9th, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Well, Trisha -

    Let me tell you something. I happen to love pitchers’ duels as well. I grew up watching Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal and the like. I absolutely LOVED a great-pitched game. I also like the homerun – they were not as commonplace as they have become – 20 was a good season back then.

    I believe I’ve built up enough credibility here that I should haven’t to qualify every statement I make. I was not being accusatory, though, clearly, you feel accused by what I said. Congratulations to you if you never suspected a darn thing. I never suspected the extent of the problem. As for the Mitchell Report – I read the whole darn thing and I was extremely upset by it. I do not condone steroids and I don’t like that there here.

    And I believe hard-core, long-term fans went to games long before the home run derbies took over. But the fact of the matter is that attendance has gone way, way up since 1998. The offensive production of players brought more and more people to the stadiums.

    I was not attacking your post or you. I was opining that the population as a whole (hence the “we”), in the general sense, to which there are always exceptions, happens to like the homerun. And that for the most part, people (is people general enough?) turn a blind eye if their own team is success and the player involved is having success. If you have read my posts in the past, you know that I go out of my way to use the words, some, many, few, perhaps, and other such qualifying words so that I don’t offend or over-generalize. What I don’t understand about you, Trisha, is why you take personal offense when people disagree with something you wrote. Most of the time, believe it or not, we are in agreement about many issues here. But you go on the attack, when someone disagrees with you.

  352. Tarheelyank February 9th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Here’s what I want to know is Arod our 3b on April 6th?

    If so lets play ball. Everything else will take care of itself soon enough.

    The newspaper industry is in deep trouble, they are going to fan the flames to get every last cent out of this. Oh my god a basball player tried to beat the rules, and did steroids to get an edge. The Horror of it all. Offer 200 million dollars contracts to journalists, and let see what stupid things they would do to get an edge. Enough of the media induced dramatics.

    I say CC, AJ, Wang, Joba and Petite- Don’t worry be Happy!

  353. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    “I am looking forward to this season. It’s been a long time since we were this loaded (literally and figuratively).”

    tarheel yank-

    i am too. i’m looking forward to seeing jeter throwing to teixeira ( it’s been a long time since the yankees had an all around good first baseman), seeing how sabathia fits in ( i think he’ll fit in fine), and seeing wang and cano get their mojo back, and generally getting back to being the yankees.

    there’s going to be challenges. torre’s book and the arod revelation seem like major distractions, but it’s all how you take them. maybe it goes the other way, and makes the yankees laser sharp and focused on the field.

  354. Jeremy February 9th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Randy,

    The problem was that as late as 2003, using PEDs was arguably not a stupid thing to do.

    There was no punishment for being caught. Not even embarrassment (in theory) as positive results were supposed to be sealed forever.

    I’m just trying to figure out what, if anything, would have motivated players not to use PEDs before MLB actually instituted penalties for their use. Health effects maybe, but surely not concerns about the integrity of the game.

  355. ALB3 February 9th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    And so the interesting question arises here:

    Does it really matter if an athlete uses steroids?

    In the sense of the sport and its place as a form of entertainment.

    Does it matter?

    The answer is no.

  356. randy l February 9th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    “The problem was that as late as 2003, using PEDs was arguably not a stupid thing to do.”

    jeremy-

    sure it was. sometimes there’s gray areas with vitamins and supplements , but there’s never been a gray area about flat out steroids.

    every athlete who’s been on a high level athletic field for the past twenty years has lived with steroids being there too. you absolutely can know who’s using if you’re tuned into the players you’re playing against.

    i honestly never felt that it gave them an advantage that couldn’t be matched. first of all, you’re dealing with a dumb a– when you competing against someone that uses. that’s the first important clue to know how to beat them.

    do you think derek jeter has ever cared about competing against canseco, garciapparra, mcguire, arod, juan gonzales, etc?

    he knew he could beat them his way. and he did.

    yes , steroid use creates some interesting numbers, but it doesn’t seem to create consistent winners . yes , some users have some rings, but winning isn’t something you associate with bonds, mcguire, arod ,or sosa for example. with the numbers they produce , you would think there would be more winning.

    i once had a very grizzled veteran former player who was a behind the scenes person for the five years going into ’96 when the yankees won their first championship in a long time, tell me something very simple.

    he said,” the cream rises.”

    sometimes it takes a while, but when jeter, arod, tejada, and garciaparra were all thought of as potential hall of famers, it now appears only one was the real mc coy.
    jeter alone is going to be making a hall of fame induction speech.

  357. Steve S February 9th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Who cares besides the media and a couple of old guys who call up Sports Talk Radio? Its a game and its entertainment with billions of dollars involved, nobody guaranteed you these guys would be the model characters. Enough already, and the NFL cleaned up their act??? Really…really??? Its unfathomable that those guys are using the designer untestable stuff, especially since they were the ones who were ahead of the curve anyway. Its normal for 200-300lb men to run as amazing speeds and sustain weekly pounding by other 200 to 300ilb men.

    And by the way this dark time, it really had an impact on attendance. Now with the economy turning Ill wager they’ll be some ridiculous newspaper writer who will attribute a decline in attendance to Alex Rodriguez rather than people have less discretionary funds.

  358. trisha February 9th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    Doreen, I guess I was giving fans a bye on this whole thing but you seemed to want to pull them back in.

    Maybe most of the fans were NOT aware there was something going on.

    I objected to the statements you made because none of them fit me, and you did make them all inclusive. And I am betting that none of them fit a lot of other fans also. I actually would prefer to believe – and do believe – that it isn’t only about when a particular player is named that people get up in arms and they are willing to forget it the rest of the time. I believe that to be the vast minority. I believe that the majority of fans want the game to be totally clean and upstanding and that ONLY certain fans are okay with steroids – and that’s their right.

    While I am not a total goody goody two shoes, I do come close. I don’t ever want to be lumped in with anyone who is willing to look the other way – because I’m not.

    I guess I was trying to say to you that just as you were saying that there were some fans that weren’t innocent bystanders, you need to also qualify your statements after that since to say “we all” as fans did anything is equally incorrect.

    Sorry if I attacked you. I hate the steroids situation, always have always will. I never knew dishonest things may have been happening in the background. I may be as naive as they come then, but I am also probably as close as you’ll ever find to someone who believes in playing by the rules and not ever turning a blind eye to wrongdoing.

  359. trisha February 9th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    “What I don’t understand about you, Trisha, is why you take personal offense when people disagree with something you wrote.”

    Doreen, seriously, that is hardly the case since I could care less whether people agree or disagree with me. I just don’t ever want to get lumped in with any group of people who find cheating acceptable because I don’t. I find it detestable and I don’t want to be lumped in with any fans who knew things weren’t “quite right” but thought it was okay.

    Sorry again if I attacked you. I really meant to take exception with what was posted but not you as a person.

  360. Bill February 9th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Baseball simply needs new leadership all-around. Selig, Orza, and the rest turned a blind eye to steroid usage and now they continue to let the witch hunt for individual players go on, so that they themselves can avoid any sort of blame. If new leadership is brought in we can place the blame primarily where it should be placed on the people that allowed this to happen.

    The players still deserve some blame and shouldn’t/won’t get off, but they’ll never catch everybody and as long as they continue to try this witch hunt will never end and will haunt baseball for years to come.

    Should select players continue to receive the blame for an era that was virtually without law? Justice will never be fully served as plenty of guilty players will not be caught. I don’t feel bad for ARod and the rest that did get caught that was their mistake, but to place full blame for an entire era that was stained by performance enhacing drugs is simply ridiculous. The face of this crime should clearly be Bud Selig, but instead the likes of Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and now ARod will carry their fair share of the blame and Selig’s. Its hard to call them victims, but is the level of punishment and shame they will carry with them the rest of their lives truly just? Maybe, but its certainly not just that many other guilty parties will avoid any blame particularly those that allowed this problem to spread across the league for years.

  361. Steve from CT February 9th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    There seem to be two types of people commenting here…A-Rod supporters and A-Rod haters. The A-Rod haters want him off the team. Steroid tests, notwithstanding, they have wanted him off the team since the 2004 ALCS. These are the people who have yet to come to grips with the Red Sox winning a WS (in fact two WS rings) while the Yankees have been struggling to get out of Round 1. They want to find someone to blame, and it can’t be Jeter (or Mariano, or anyone else who is a “real Yankee”). But A-Rod wasn’t the only one who put up lousy numbers in Games 4-7 of the 2004 ALCS. The whole team stunk it up, both hitters AND pitchers. Apparently, posters such as Randy I are ready to anoint players like Texeira, Sabathia and Burnett as “real Yankees” before they’ve played even one game in pinstripes. Ridiculous! The only “real Yankees” of the past 10 years are Bernie, Jorge and Derek; and only because they never played for another team throughout their careers. The others are just ballplayers. Even Paul O’Neill, who was, in my opinion, a great Yankee, came here from the Reds in a trade. Blaming A-Rod for the Yankees post-season failures is like saying that Ted Williams wasn’t a great ballplayer because he never took the Sox to a World Championship. How stupid a statement is that?

    The A-Rod lovers are willing to forgive and forget. That’s a bit too simplistic. A-Rod has to face the music and prove that he can produce A-Rodian numbers while staying clean. If asked where I stand, I have to fall in with those who believe that A-Rod has incredible talent. And there isn’t a GM in baseball who wouldn’t want A-Rod on his team. You may not like him as a person (a la Gary Sheffield) but you absolutely cannot replace the numbers he puts up (and which, I believe, he can still put up without the roids).

  362. Clay February 9th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    At this point, anybody who played the game in the last 15 years is guilty until proven innocent.

    15 years? Try the last 50, if not more. Hell, Babe Ruth injected himself with an extract from sheep’s testicles in the 20s.

    Steroids are not new. There are almost certainly people the Hall of Fame RIGHT NOW who used steroids. There are people who cheated by other means, for sure. Hell, Gaylord Perry cheated in ways that are way more obviously beneficial that steroids.

  363. Joltin' Joe February 9th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Does anyone in here really think Arod cares about the HOF?
    All he cares about is his money. All he is, is a good looking Manny. No wonder they are best friends, they are the same person, except Manny hits in the clutch. That’s because he doesn’t care about his image. Have the Yankees look into that contract, the HR incentives, and watch Arod and Boras squirm. Try to take Arod’s money. This is what the Yanks signed up for? Couldn’t they see this coming? Just like others are “banned” from the Hall for their juiced HR’s, shouldn’t his homers be clean to earn those incentives?

  364. Joltin' Joe February 9th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    steve from ct

    did you forget Mo?

  365. Joltin' Joe February 9th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    SJ
    You say Arod has come up clean in the past, but what about HGH, the untestable?

  366. BG February 9th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    I mostly agree with Pete that this news makes almost everyone suspect. Its not just that A-Rod was outed but that so many tested positive in 2003 and most surely many other users alluded a positive test.

    I have to disagree though that A-Rod becomes the steroids poster child. That is still Bonds. Pete seems to forget what a complete ballplayer Bonds was before he bulked up. He’s won 8 Gold Gloves to A-Rod’s 2, 8 MVP’s (many of which were prior to him bulking up) to A-Rod’s 3, and is 2nd among active players in Stolen bases with over 500 even having stolen over 50 back in 1993. The wrongly held belief that A-Rod was clean and Bonds wasn’t along with A-Rod playing a more skilled position is the only way you can really say A-Rod was/is the better player.

    I guess another question is why we care so much more about steroids in baseball than we do in other sports? Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use? Yet Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens’ place in history is commonly thought to be erased. I’m not sure which stance is really right but its odd to me that we care so much more in some sports than in others. I don’t envy HOF voters trying to sort out who deserves to make it from this era.

  367. Clay February 9th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    “Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use?”

    Not sure about the HoF, but Shawn Merriman was elected to the Pro Bowl THE SAME SEASON he was suspended 4 games for testing positive…

  368. Heinz February 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I’m just waiting for this headline:

    YouTube Exposé: Madonna Injects A-Rod with Steriods in the Ass During an Illegal High-Stakes Poker Game in NYC; Portrait of Derek Jeter Hangs in Background – Torre Calls Video “Fraud”

  369. Mr. Goodkat February 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    They stepped up testing after 2003 though, so unless AROD took HGH or Orza kept tipping him off, I think eventually he’d get caught. That’s just me though.

  370. Nick February 9th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Roger Clemens isn’t the best pitcher of this generation. Maddux, Pedro, Johnson, not Clemens.

  371. Kevin February 9th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Wow Pete. Slow your roll buddy. First off, this is America ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty. You are too good of a professional to say oh Alex was one of the good guys and now he’s ruined everything. The media has painted Rodriguez as a bad guy forever. He signs a ten year $252mm contract, he’s a sell out. He gets photographed with a stripper, he’s an adulterer, and all of America should know it. His wife wears a shirt that says F*** You, he’s got bad values. He has an affair with Madonna, he’s a gold digger. His agent announces his opt out during the WS, Alex thinks he’s above the game. I’m not trying to defend him, but I mean the media hates this guy. Journalists love to put him down whenever they can. And now everyone is saying he was one of the last good guys, our last hope. That’s ridiculous. So just stop it. Pete I have too much respect for you to see you write like that. A-Rod slipped up. He made a big mistake. But you can’t say that just because he and others have messed up it taints the whole sport. How can you bring up these names that are never mentioned with ‘roids? That is just asking for controversy. Baseball will handle this somehow, it might not end up being the right way, but it will be one way. They messed up when they threw Pete Rose and all of the “Black Sox” out of the game. Shoeless Joe Jackson wasn’t involved in the betting, and performed phenomenally in the 1919 series, yet because of baseball people acting like you are, he was guilty simply by association. Pete Rose, the manager, bet on baseball for his own team. Pete Rose, the manager, is not a hall of famer. But, Pete Rose the player is a first ballot hall of famer any day and every day. He was a phenomenal player, and as a player he did not make such big mistakes. It was a terrible decision not to let him into the hall. Don’t say his character doesn’t belong in the hall,. Ty Cobb was a racist, Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic, Pete Rose was a gambler. Character can surely help a player’s case, but you can’t penalize them for it when statistically we know they are true hall of famers no matter what. Do you realize what you just said Pete? You just questioned Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Mike Mussina, and Joba Chambelain of being steroid users. Stop it. Seriously. That is weak speculation truly based on no facts, and as a sports writer you should know better than anyone else that you need facts to build an argument. Those guys haven’t been proven to have done anything wrong, and until they have been it is unacceptable to accuse them of stuff like that. You sound like the Hall of Fame voter a few years back who refused to vote for Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn because he thought that in this “era” we couldn’t be sure that anyone hadn’t used steroids. Just because some players have messed up doesn’t mean that every single player should be considered a ‘roid user until proven innocent. That is ridiculous. That is stereotyping full on and full out. You might as well say all Whites are rich bigots, all blacks are drug dealer, all mexicans are illegal, all gays are flamboyant, and all women should stay at home. You are forming stupid unjustified generalizations that are rude, uncalled for, unprofessional, and really offensive. Stop it Pete. Stop it. You are too good to do that. You are way too good a writer to do that. That is something that you shouldn’t do. You can’t compare Jeter and Bonds, Mariano and A-rod, or McGwire and Joba. Just because someone is a baseball player doesn’t mean you should assume they use steroids. If you are writing a Saturday Night Live skit that’s acceptable, but as a distinguished Sports Journalist lots and lots of people rely on you for valid, well thought out, professional ideas, and you aren’t showing those at all. Pete, I’ve regarded you as a phenomenal writer for a long time, and with this post you are moving away from the high territory of Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal and closer to the weak territory of Dayn Perry and the Sam I Am Sports Blog.


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581