Comments on: These are the worst of times http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/ A New York Yankees blog by Sam Borden, Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:35:13 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Kevin http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-663130 Kevin Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:00:10 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-663130 Wow Pete. Slow your roll buddy. First off, this is America ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty. You are too good of a professional to say oh Alex was one of the good guys and now he's ruined everything. The media has painted Rodriguez as a bad guy forever. He signs a ten year $252mm contract, he's a sell out. He gets photographed with a stripper, he's an adulterer, and all of America should know it. His wife wears a shirt that says F*** You, he's got bad values. He has an affair with Madonna, he's a gold digger. His agent announces his opt out during the WS, Alex thinks he's above the game. I'm not trying to defend him, but I mean the media hates this guy. Journalists love to put him down whenever they can. And now everyone is saying he was one of the last good guys, our last hope. That's ridiculous. So just stop it. Pete I have too much respect for you to see you write like that. A-Rod slipped up. He made a big mistake. But you can't say that just because he and others have messed up it taints the whole sport. How can you bring up these names that are never mentioned with 'roids? That is just asking for controversy. Baseball will handle this somehow, it might not end up being the right way, but it will be one way. They messed up when they threw Pete Rose and all of the "Black Sox" out of the game. Shoeless Joe Jackson wasn't involved in the betting, and performed phenomenally in the 1919 series, yet because of baseball people acting like you are, he was guilty simply by association. Pete Rose, the manager, bet on baseball for his own team. Pete Rose, the manager, is not a hall of famer. But, Pete Rose the player is a first ballot hall of famer any day and every day. He was a phenomenal player, and as a player he did not make such big mistakes. It was a terrible decision not to let him into the hall. Don't say his character doesn't belong in the hall,. Ty Cobb was a racist, Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic, Pete Rose was a gambler. Character can surely help a player's case, but you can't penalize them for it when statistically we know they are true hall of famers no matter what. Do you realize what you just said Pete? You just questioned Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Mike Mussina, and Joba Chambelain of being steroid users. Stop it. Seriously. That is weak speculation truly based on no facts, and as a sports writer you should know better than anyone else that you need facts to build an argument. Those guys haven't been proven to have done anything wrong, and until they have been it is unacceptable to accuse them of stuff like that. You sound like the Hall of Fame voter a few years back who refused to vote for Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn because he thought that in this "era" we couldn't be sure that anyone hadn't used steroids. Just because some players have messed up doesn't mean that every single player should be considered a 'roid user until proven innocent. That is ridiculous. That is stereotyping full on and full out. You might as well say all Whites are rich bigots, all blacks are drug dealer, all mexicans are illegal, all gays are flamboyant, and all women should stay at home. You are forming stupid unjustified generalizations that are rude, uncalled for, unprofessional, and really offensive. Stop it Pete. Stop it. You are too good to do that. You are way too good a writer to do that. That is something that you shouldn't do. You can't compare Jeter and Bonds, Mariano and A-rod, or McGwire and Joba. Just because someone is a baseball player doesn't mean you should assume they use steroids. If you are writing a Saturday Night Live skit that's acceptable, but as a distinguished Sports Journalist lots and lots of people rely on you for valid, well thought out, professional ideas, and you aren't showing those at all. Pete, I've regarded you as a phenomenal writer for a long time, and with this post you are moving away from the high territory of Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal and closer to the weak territory of Dayn Perry and the Sam I Am Sports Blog. Wow Pete. Slow your roll buddy. First off, this is America ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty. You are too good of a professional to say oh Alex was one of the good guys and now he’s ruined everything. The media has painted Rodriguez as a bad guy forever. He signs a ten year $252mm contract, he’s a sell out. He gets photographed with a stripper, he’s an adulterer, and all of America should know it. His wife wears a shirt that says F*** You, he’s got bad values. He has an affair with Madonna, he’s a gold digger. His agent announces his opt out during the WS, Alex thinks he’s above the game. I’m not trying to defend him, but I mean the media hates this guy. Journalists love to put him down whenever they can. And now everyone is saying he was one of the last good guys, our last hope. That’s ridiculous. So just stop it. Pete I have too much respect for you to see you write like that. A-Rod slipped up. He made a big mistake. But you can’t say that just because he and others have messed up it taints the whole sport. How can you bring up these names that are never mentioned with ‘roids? That is just asking for controversy. Baseball will handle this somehow, it might not end up being the right way, but it will be one way. They messed up when they threw Pete Rose and all of the “Black Sox” out of the game. Shoeless Joe Jackson wasn’t involved in the betting, and performed phenomenally in the 1919 series, yet because of baseball people acting like you are, he was guilty simply by association. Pete Rose, the manager, bet on baseball for his own team. Pete Rose, the manager, is not a hall of famer. But, Pete Rose the player is a first ballot hall of famer any day and every day. He was a phenomenal player, and as a player he did not make such big mistakes. It was a terrible decision not to let him into the hall. Don’t say his character doesn’t belong in the hall,. Ty Cobb was a racist, Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic, Pete Rose was a gambler. Character can surely help a player’s case, but you can’t penalize them for it when statistically we know they are true hall of famers no matter what. Do you realize what you just said Pete? You just questioned Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Mike Mussina, and Joba Chambelain of being steroid users. Stop it. Seriously. That is weak speculation truly based on no facts, and as a sports writer you should know better than anyone else that you need facts to build an argument. Those guys haven’t been proven to have done anything wrong, and until they have been it is unacceptable to accuse them of stuff like that. You sound like the Hall of Fame voter a few years back who refused to vote for Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn because he thought that in this “era” we couldn’t be sure that anyone hadn’t used steroids. Just because some players have messed up doesn’t mean that every single player should be considered a ‘roid user until proven innocent. That is ridiculous. That is stereotyping full on and full out. You might as well say all Whites are rich bigots, all blacks are drug dealer, all mexicans are illegal, all gays are flamboyant, and all women should stay at home. You are forming stupid unjustified generalizations that are rude, uncalled for, unprofessional, and really offensive. Stop it Pete. Stop it. You are too good to do that. You are way too good a writer to do that. That is something that you shouldn’t do. You can’t compare Jeter and Bonds, Mariano and A-rod, or McGwire and Joba. Just because someone is a baseball player doesn’t mean you should assume they use steroids. If you are writing a Saturday Night Live skit that’s acceptable, but as a distinguished Sports Journalist lots and lots of people rely on you for valid, well thought out, professional ideas, and you aren’t showing those at all. Pete, I’ve regarded you as a phenomenal writer for a long time, and with this post you are moving away from the high territory of Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal and closer to the weak territory of Dayn Perry and the Sam I Am Sports Blog.

]]> By: Nick http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-662430 Nick Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:26:57 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-662430 Roger Clemens isn't the best pitcher of this generation. Maddux, Pedro, Johnson, not Clemens. Roger Clemens isn’t the best pitcher of this generation. Maddux, Pedro, Johnson, not Clemens.

]]> By: Mr. Goodkat http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-662146 Mr. Goodkat Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:56:58 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-662146 They stepped up testing after 2003 though, so unless AROD took HGH or Orza kept tipping him off, I think eventually he'd get caught. That's just me though. They stepped up testing after 2003 though, so unless AROD took HGH or Orza kept tipping him off, I think eventually he’d get caught. That’s just me though.

]]> By: Heinz http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-662074 Heinz Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:33:04 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-662074 I'm just waiting for this headline: YouTube Exposé: Madonna Injects A-Rod with Steriods in the Ass During an Illegal High-Stakes Poker Game in NYC; Portrait of Derek Jeter Hangs in Background - Torre Calls Video "Fraud" I’m just waiting for this headline:

YouTube Exposé: Madonna Injects A-Rod with Steriods in the Ass During an Illegal High-Stakes Poker Game in NYC; Portrait of Derek Jeter Hangs in Background – Torre Calls Video “Fraud”

]]> By: Clay http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-662025 Clay Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:19:16 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-662025 "Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use?" Not sure about the HoF, but Shawn Merriman was elected to the Pro Bowl THE SAME SEASON he was suspended 4 games for testing positive... “Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use?”

Not sure about the HoF, but Shawn Merriman was elected to the Pro Bowl THE SAME SEASON he was suspended 4 games for testing positive…

]]> By: BG http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-661723 BG Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:50:24 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-661723 I mostly agree with Pete that this news makes almost everyone suspect. Its not just that A-Rod was outed but that so many tested positive in 2003 and most surely many other users alluded a positive test. I have to disagree though that A-Rod becomes the steroids poster child. That is still Bonds. Pete seems to forget what a complete ballplayer Bonds was before he bulked up. He's won 8 Gold Gloves to A-Rod's 2, 8 MVP's (many of which were prior to him bulking up) to A-Rod's 3, and is 2nd among active players in Stolen bases with over 500 even having stolen over 50 back in 1993. The wrongly held belief that A-Rod was clean and Bonds wasn't along with A-Rod playing a more skilled position is the only way you can really say A-Rod was/is the better player. I guess another question is why we care so much more about steroids in baseball than we do in other sports? Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use? Yet Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens' place in history is commonly thought to be erased. I'm not sure which stance is really right but its odd to me that we care so much more in some sports than in others. I don't envy HOF voters trying to sort out who deserves to make it from this era. I mostly agree with Pete that this news makes almost everyone suspect. Its not just that A-Rod was outed but that so many tested positive in 2003 and most surely many other users alluded a positive test.

I have to disagree though that A-Rod becomes the steroids poster child. That is still Bonds. Pete seems to forget what a complete ballplayer Bonds was before he bulked up. He’s won 8 Gold Gloves to A-Rod’s 2, 8 MVP’s (many of which were prior to him bulking up) to A-Rod’s 3, and is 2nd among active players in Stolen bases with over 500 even having stolen over 50 back in 1993. The wrongly held belief that A-Rod was clean and Bonds wasn’t along with A-Rod playing a more skilled position is the only way you can really say A-Rod was/is the better player.

I guess another question is why we care so much more about steroids in baseball than we do in other sports? Has anyone been kept out of the NFL HOF for steroid use? Yet Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens’ place in history is commonly thought to be erased. I’m not sure which stance is really right but its odd to me that we care so much more in some sports than in others. I don’t envy HOF voters trying to sort out who deserves to make it from this era.

]]> By: Joltin' Joe http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-661572 Joltin' Joe Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:53:39 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-661572 SJ You say Arod has come up clean in the past, but what about HGH, the untestable? SJ
You say Arod has come up clean in the past, but what about HGH, the untestable?

]]> By: Joltin' Joe http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-661559 Joltin' Joe Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:46:05 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-661559 steve from ct did you forget Mo? steve from ct

did you forget Mo?

]]> By: Joltin' Joe http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-661555 Joltin' Joe Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:43:41 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-661555 Does anyone in here really think Arod cares about the HOF? All he cares about is his money. All he is, is a good looking Manny. No wonder they are best friends, they are the same person, except Manny hits in the clutch. That's because he doesn't care about his image. Have the Yankees look into that contract, the HR incentives, and watch Arod and Boras squirm. Try to take Arod's money. This is what the Yanks signed up for? Couldn't they see this coming? Just like others are "banned" from the Hall for their juiced HR's, shouldn't his homers be clean to earn those incentives? Does anyone in here really think Arod cares about the HOF?
All he cares about is his money. All he is, is a good looking Manny. No wonder they are best friends, they are the same person, except Manny hits in the clutch. That’s because he doesn’t care about his image. Have the Yankees look into that contract, the HR incentives, and watch Arod and Boras squirm. Try to take Arod’s money. This is what the Yanks signed up for? Couldn’t they see this coming? Just like others are “banned” from the Hall for their juiced HR’s, shouldn’t his homers be clean to earn those incentives?

]]> By: Clay http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/02/09/these-are-the-worst-of-times/comment-page-8/#comment-661482 Clay Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:07:46 +0000 http://yankees.lhblogs.com/?p=6718#comment-661482 At this point, anybody who played the game in the last 15 years is guilty until proven innocent. 15 years? Try the last 50, if not more. Hell, Babe Ruth injected himself with an extract from sheep's testicles in the 20s. Steroids are not new. There are almost certainly people the Hall of Fame RIGHT NOW who used steroids. There are people who cheated by other means, for sure. Hell, Gaylord Perry cheated in ways that are way more obviously beneficial that steroids. At this point, anybody who played the game in the last 15 years is guilty until proven innocent.

15 years? Try the last 50, if not more. Hell, Babe Ruth injected himself with an extract from sheep’s testicles in the 20s.

Steroids are not new. There are almost certainly people the Hall of Fame RIGHT NOW who used steroids. There are people who cheated by other means, for sure. Hell, Gaylord Perry cheated in ways that are way more obviously beneficial that steroids.

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