Today in The Journal News
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- February
- 11
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Derek Jeter passed on questions about A-Rod for now. But Joe Girardi believes that this, too, shall pass.
Rodriguez is not expected in Tampa until next week, right when position players are to report. He is still scheduled to be honored by the University of Miami baseball program on Friday. Rodriguez donated the money needed to refurbish their stadium.
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Headed off to the minor-league complex to catch the early workouts. I’ll file a post or two from there.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....595.column
I thought Jeter did a bad job in 2006, but this isn’t 2006 and he’s come out with a couple of public statements in support of Alex. The media is seriously paranoid at this point and definitely looking for another reason to resurrect the Alex/Jeter “rift”. Maybe Jeter wants his teammates behind behind him (physically, I mean) when he makes his statement. Maybe he’s spoken with Alex already – I’m not saying he did, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. The fact is,. perhaps Jeter is going to come out with something more than the pat “I support Alex, he is my teammate” answer. Did Davidoff (or other mediots) ever think that maybe the man wants to put some thought into this? Ho hum, yet another media manufactured controversy.
It will be interesting to see if Alex shows up to be honored. The school can’t ask him not to come because they took his money, but he might opt out himself to avoid the controversy. I think he should go and give a speech urging the kids not to make the same mistakes that he did. He needs to confront this thing head on and not dodge uncomfortable situations.
I love it when Pete posts baseball tidbits. I know that the Alex Rodriguez stuff is dominating the papers and websites, but let’s not forget that we still have a season on the horizon.
Betsy –
I think it’s even simpler than that. I think people need to take Jeter at his word when he says he wants to say what he has to say once, and not have to revisit and repeat on a daily basis for the next week or so.
I have a question for you all. One of the things people have been debating is whether or not, 14 years minimum down the road, if Alex will be voted into the Hall of Fame.
But I am wondering this: how likely is it that Alex will ever win another MVP award? And I don’t mean, how likely is it that he’ll put up MVP numbers again – I mean, literally, how likely is it that he’ll get enough votes to win an MVP ever again?
Wow – I missed a lot (dave!) last night by going to sleep early.
First thing I noticed, thanks Boston Dave for your link to the sports law article, was that my thinking that it could be possible for the players to take action to get the names released has some basis. (No big deal to anyone but me!)
I don’t like the way Selena Roberts presents herself. I don’t like the book she’s going to write on ARod. I think her methods may be sketchy. However, most bombshell investigative reports only occur because the journalist walks that thin line someone spoke of in one of these threads. It really, ultimately, makes no difference that she may or may not have a vendetta against Alex Rodriguez. And I do have to wonder what the reaction would be if it was a player not on the Yankees, or a subject a little more important than steroids in baseball. (Not that I think it’s not an important subject, but I would guess most would agree that there are subjects that have more bearing on our lives.)
I will root for ARod to succeed. I will hope that he can face down the negativity that is going to wash upon him for the rest of his career. And I hope he is prepared, and has prepared the Yankees, for what might be covered in Selena Roberts book, whether what she writes is true or not. Because we all know that once something is written, it almost doesn’t matter whether it is true. I hope that the Yankees as a team can remain focused on the ballfield.
As much as I always wanted Alex to do well as a player, and as much as I often thought that he was “misunderstood,” it is difficult to ignore that this guy has a history of not quite doing the right thing, and certainly of not being able to say the right thing (or saying the right thing the wrong way). If he told the truth that he only used from 2001 to 2003, great. But even with that, what I always condemned Bonds for was being stupid and egotistical. Alex is the same. He’s a Yankee, so I’ll support him during a game, but at some point having grown up without a dad stops being an excuse for stupidity and questionable behavior. I hope he was sincere about wanting to finally grow up.
We’re all human, we all make mistakes. So, Alex is no different in that respect. But he has to earn back any good will that people had for him. He has to work at it. And that’s fair.
I am so sick of this steroid talk. I am going to try and restrain myself from posting about it anymore. I just want to talk baseball!
Good question, Doreen. I would imagine that, if A-rod goes out and plays like he did in ‘07 they would pretty much have to, no? (unless somebody is better, or “more valuable”
The media can’t say “well he failed a steroid test 6 seasons ago, so I’m not voting for him.” Can they?
Laura,
As of last night at 10 pm, he was still coming to the dinner.
What happens between now and then? No idea.
As of right now though, he’s still planning on being there.
Tom -
They can come up with all kinds of “reasons,” like they did when Jeter didn’t win MVP in 2006. Like, Alex plays on a team of superstars; his contributions came in the beginning of the season; so-and-so was more “clutch.” But if he has a really incredible season, start to finish, in all areas, and no one comes close, then we’ll find out, won’t we?
ARod gave the University of Miami money to renovate their facility. He is not being honored for his playing abilities. He shouldn’t have to give a speech and apologize to the University. It has nothing to do with baseball.
Doreen, yup. Let’s hope Alex makes it hard on the media to not pick him this year.
brought this over from the last thread because it is so good:
read john updike’s essay on ted williams’ last game (and cereer). it is an increadible piece of writing.(if you haven’t already, or even if you have)
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....eu/?page=1
apologize to the university? he never attended the university and has donated millions of dollars, what’s to appologize for?
remember this is outlaw u we’re talking about.
“The media can’t say “well he failed a steroid test 6 seasons ago, so I’m not voting for him.” Can they?”
Sure they can. It’s stupid, but they could not vote for him as retribution for the now tainted ‘03 MVP. Bigger than that, the voters may not buy into the “I stopped after ‘03″ story. Alex’s credibility sits at right around zero right now and there remain PED’s that are not tested for.
SJ,
I guess they write soo much that they just begin to write whatever the facts are that supports their opinions at some point. It is so convenient how some of the reporters basically omit huge issues to make sure that their point holds true. WHat does history or reality matter when they are trying to make a point? Mike Francessa does that all the time too. He will sometimes not even acknowledge when someone brings up an excellent point if it contradicts his own. He will just brush it off using some backwards logic and ridiculous thought. The way some of these guys talk, you would think this is the first we are hearing of roids and alex is the first guy to really cheat at this game. I guess the thousands of players that came before him dont count in this line of reasoning.
A-rod again?
“The media can’t say “well he failed a steroid test 6 seasons ago, so I’m not voting for him.” Can they?”
well, first off, the answer is yes they can at least for as long as they have the vote.(changes are coming there.)
but the drug test no longer means anything. the FACT is that arod used ped’s for at least parts of 3 seasons, he has admitted that, so the test means nothing.
as for the 6 years ago part, since a player isnt eligible for at least 5 years after retirement, then almost ALL of the ‘evidence’ for and against induction is over 6 years old.
Ham:
I think the topic was the MVP vote rather than potential HOF induction.
so a reporter can camp out in front of someone’s house and follow that someone everywhere.
if a private citizen does that it’s called stalking.
i’m assuming that because the target is a public figure that this is allowed.
my question is whether selena roberts is a public figure. can arod turn it around on her , hire investigators who follow her non stop and then make public what they discover?
i doubt very much for example that every time that roberts drinks and then drives, goes out with a married man or woman. files a padded expense report, tail gates, or drives ten miles over the speed limit that she wants this to be public knowledge.
but she’s a public figure, why not?
somehow i think it’s probably illegal to turn the tables and investigate the reporter investigator in the same way.
but to me, this is a ridiculous double standard if it’s true.
investigating the investigator is not shooting the messenger. it’s self defense.
Dave,
At this point, it doesn’t matter.
All that matters is how Alex conducts himself from hereon out.
If he continues to act the wrong way, on and off the field, all those in the media with an axe to grind against him, will have a field day with him. One could argue, rightfully so.
If he gets his act together? He writes a happy ending to his story. Its all up to him at this point.
Look, the Roberts book is not going to be pretty. She is going to talk about the bi-sexual club community in Miami Beach, some of those folks are Alex’s friends, and intimate that Alex may be bi-sexual.
She is going to have on and off the record interviews with “friends” (more like wannabe friends) of Alex that talk about his infidelities and other things.
I’m sure she will interview some of the body builders in Miami, who will talk about steroids.
Its not going to be a pretty book.
Guess what? It doesn’t matter if he gets his act together and there is ZERO evidence he has used since 2003.
When I say “ZERO evidence”, I mean, NO flunked drug test, NO receipts for drug purchases, NO compromising photos, NO phone records, wiretaps, etc.
Nothing that can be seen as hard evidence of drug use after 2003.
If there is, he’s finished. Simple as that.
The rest of it? Just noise if he gets his act together.
I’m not Selena Roberts fan. I have had dealings with her and I don’t like the way she does business. Just my opinion and nothing more.
That said, its up to Alex to write the happy ending to his story, not her.
If he continues to drive over the figurative cliff, its not Selena Roberts fault. Even if she gives him a nudge, its up to him to get his life in order.
Ham, it wasn’t the HOF I was talking about. It was will the sports writers ever vote Alex for MVP again…
Hopefully, he will do what Pettite did last year. On the day he reports, hold a press conference and announce that this is the one and only day he and the team will address the issue. After that day, its strictly baseball talk. No more steroid questions will be addressed. Thats the only way to out this behind them and get back to baseball.
voters can vote for anyone they want. there is no standard criteria. if you think anybody who has ever been proved to cheat doesnt deserve an mvp, you wont vote for him.
it was interesting during the election how some people who voted for hilary in the primaries then voted for mccain b/c of sarah palin in the general election. this despite the fact that they are as politically opposite as you can imagine. it would seem crystal clear that most of these people were just voting for a woman, no matter the politics or even thier (potential) place on the ticket.
there is no explaining how and why people vote for anything.
Doreen
With Alex there was always a “but”. “Alex is a great player, but he …..”
He has now given people a reason to change that to a “BUT”.
Let’s hope we are debating his MVP-ness 7-8 months from now.
Can’t remember who said this yesterday (NBC?)but it made so much sense to me.
Players should be judged on what they do. Alex is judged on what he doesn’t do.
Roberto Alomar has full blown AIDS:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gos.....omar_.html
Jet Fans
Favre retired.
Breaking News-Brett Favre to retire.
(Or here we go again?)
John,
Alex could say that but that doesnt mean the media will stop. They are relentless with stuff like this and ridiculously repetitive to talk about the same thing for months and months on air. I dont know how they will continue this if arod ends it but they will find a way. The sports talk show hosts dont ever need new material to continue a story. They just keep interviewing any one related to it and on and on it goes.
As for the mvp thing, I cant talk for these writers because half of them seem like idiots and I cant even pretend to put myself inside their head but logically, it would make sense that if alex stopped using six years ago and no further evidence comes out to the contrary, an mvp season is an mvp season. If he put up 50 homers this year and bats 320 with 150 rbis and no one else in the league is close which is reasonably to assume may happen, I dont know how in the world they would justify not voting for him. i MEAN of course, they may very well not vote him first but it would not be justifiable to do so. And the same goes for every year from now until he retires. He puts up monster numbers and he should get a solid amount of the vote because he is not on anything anymore. I mean that is rational thinking and some of these guys do not think rationally so you never know.
=( FAVRERERVEVRERERE NOOOOOOO!!!!
Looks like Abreu is going to LA (Angels).
http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....ref=fromSI
That Roberto Alomar story is really messed up, true or untrue–that is some seedy business.
“there is no explaining how and why people vote for anything.”
There really isn’t. Voters seem to change the rules on the fly. Sometimes the MVP is really more of a Player of the Year type thing moreso than most valuable. Japanese guys are rookies sometimes (Suzuki, Sasaki) and sometimes not (Matsui). Why was Clemens pitching season good enough for MVP over Mattingly, while Guidry’s wasn’t good enough to top Rice? How did Mo Vaughn beat Albert Belle? Just so arbitrary.
Funny thing about Arod’s ‘03 MVP is he had no business winning it. Should have gone to Carlos Delgado that year. BTW, that year Arod received 6 1st place votes for MVP. The presumedly clean Posada had 5.
I’m A-Bored.
Can’t wait until the first ST game. Time for real baseball!
Well Alex will likely be bumped off the front and back pages of the paper!
Since there is no baseball talk, who will the new Jets QB be, and can Rex still talk Ray into coming to the Jets?
if only it was true that brett would quit and go away and not come back….
we are going to be hearing rumors of his return for a year and a half at least, even if he really is retiring (which i dont buy)
it seems that for the past 4 years or so his main goal has been to keep his name in the papers as much as possible all offseason and he has suceeded beyond even his wildest dreams, thanks to espn.
no such thing as presumably clean anymore.
sj44-
is it a one way street with reporters like selena roberts investigating public figures?
can other reporters investigate selena roberts? is she a public figure?
for instance she looks like she struggles with her weight. i’d be interested if she’s on illegal weight loss stimulants for example that affect how she thinks or fixates. we have people like kudlow on cnbc and rush limbaugh having addiction problems. knowing that explains some of their behavior and opinions.
i like to know the history of the people who give me information. are the reporters and commentators public figures? can they be investigated?
if reporters are given rights of investigation that ordinary citizens aren’t given, at what point when someone has a public blog when do they become a reporter with reporter rights as far as investigation or libel protection?
Doreen,
I can only see this issue costing ARod an MVP if he’s in a dead heat with a player who has a spotless reputation. Otherwise, it would be tough for any voter to justify voting for a less deserving player because ARod used PEDs in 2001-2003. That would be akin to saying that any player who used PEDs should never win an MVP. I hope no one takes that position because it is completely at odds with what the MVP award means.
Why couldn’t he hire a PI? People hire pi’s to follow spouses around all the time. I don’t think it has a thing to do with whether or not she is a public figure or not.
Some of you guys are making it out to seem that arod would not have been nearly as good in those three years without the roids. The homerun total did go up but for one, he was entering the prime of his career anyway and two, arlington is a great place for righties to hit homeruns.
iT WOULD make sense for his homerun total to go up those years compared to yankee stadium which is far more friendly on lefty homerun hitters. But adjust for park factors and average out arods years in texas to his years in NY. Im sure it would become pretty clear that there is only a marginal difference if any. His two best seasons were in seattle in 96 and ny in 2007. He just barely won the mvp that he won in texas and probably shouldnt have won it at all. Yet, the mvp he won in 2007 was no question. And his 1996 season was probably the best season of his life. Look at that average!! Not to mention, he really had only a slight decline coming off roids with a 286 375 36 homerun line.
Those numbers also likely evened out whatever edge he gained in his stats from the roids. He just is a spectacular player and roids just dont help people play baseball THAT much better than they already do – iM SURE he has a few more homeruns than he would have had without the roids but it is a very small number at most.
This is the type of stuff people should take into account when voting him into the hall rather than just did he take roids? Yes – Im not voting for him. Some people would have made the hall whether they took roids or not. Mcgwire’s game was all about power and he had some terrible seasons in which he hit under 250. Bonds had a huge power surge later in his career. Clemens somehow completely dominated in his career at an older age. I mean I for one think almost all of these guys deserve to be in the hall but out of all of them, alex’s numbers see the most likely to have occurred for the most part without the drugs.
Randy,
At this point, it doesn’t matter.
One of the good things to come out of this is, everybody has their cards on the table. His secret is out and she is writing an unflattering book about him.
Now, its up to Arod as to how he wants it to go. If he gets his act together, there really isn’t anything she can write or say that will hurt him.
If he doesn’t, she and others will tear him apart.
One good thing about getting your secret out is you take the power away from the people who know your secret.
He just can’t have any more secrets. No more drug issues can come out. If they do, he finished.
Dave:
Let’s not forget about a certain good-to-mediocre (and oft-injured) pitcher for the Orioles and Phillies who suddenly, at ages 35, 36, and 38, ripped off three twenty-win seasons with Arizona and Boston.
Dave,
We’ll never know the extent ARod’s game improved from PED use. That’s one of the most infuriating things about evaluating a player who juiced.
Far all we know, even if ARod stopped using PEDs in 2003, he could still be reaping the benefits today. Even if we assume ARod only used in 2001-2003, we make another big assumption if we say that only his 2001-2003 numbers were inflated from PED use.
There’s just so little we know. We don’t know when ARod really used PEDs, we don’t know for sure what he used, and we don’t know how those PEDs changed his game.
We also don’t know how many other players used PEDs and the extent their games improved from PED use.
My view is we should assume all players juiced through 2003 and use contextual stats like OPS+ to see which players were the best of their time. Those players go into the HOF. That means McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, and ARod all get in.
HOF voters should not want to get into endless debates over whether a particular player ever used a PED, or get into line drawing controversies over how much PED use disqualifies an otherwise deserving player from getting in.
Guy,
I have no doubt that mcnamees involvements with the whole roids government case is the only reason why multiple redsox have no been accused of steroids or hgh use in the last few years. Guys like schilling and ortiz who both seem to become much better with age and ortiz who went from league average to the best in the sport in one season. If he wasnt on roids, he was on something,
Jeremy
Great point. Could not agree with you more.
As sanctimonious as the baseball media is there is no doubt that ARod’s admission will cost him future votes for awards as well as for the Hall. His best chance at minimizing it will be his own behavior and performances.
Another thing that would help is the leaking of the other 103 positive testers which will help put that area in a clearer context.
If “Commissioner for Life” Baby Doc Selig stepped up, accepted the truth that ALL of baseball shared in their complicity for the steroid era that owuld be great but I’m not holding my breath.
As we get further removed from the steroid era and stats are built up during the testing era we’ll have a better idea of how much additional power was generated in that time. For example, ARod averaged 42 HR a year in his last two Seattle seasons and his five Yankees seasons. He averaged 52 in Texas. Actually he hit 2.4 more HR on the road and 7.6 more HR at home… so perhaps the Texas Stadium and heat gave him five and the juice gave him five more each year.
What Hall voters should evaluate is the increase in that time. Take away the juice and you can easily argue Palmeiro, Sosa and McGuire are not Hall worthy… it’s a lot harder to make that argument against Bonds, Clemens and ARod.
Dave:
Paxton Crawford already spilled the beans about the 2000-01 Sox, saying he was offered PEDs in the clubhouse, and was made fun of for dropping his syringes all over the floor or something along those lines. A quick glance at that roster and it’s absolutely laughable that anyone could deny it wasn’t a steroid clubhouse with all the others.
Nomar, Bichette, Nixon, Everett, O’Leary, Daubach, Rod Beck, I mean, come on here.
Jeremy,
For one, it is impossible to say that arod is enjoying the benefit of his peds use from 2003 today medically speaking. Think about a drug – it only lasts so long and then, your body breaks down the chemical. Its the same with every drug. Then, when you stop, your body compensates for the lack of it by producing even less because that is what its used to. That is why people have highs and then, they have withdrawels. Its your body re-acclimating to a chemical homeostasis without the drug in your system any longer. That can take weeks, maybe even months and then, for the muscle strength to even itself out, maybe a year or so. But in that year, he went through the so called “withdrawel” symptoms where his body was re-acclimating. That likely means he was producing less androgen and testosterone than most normal, healthy men because his body was so used to the supplements. That is likely the reason for his huge decline in 2004 in his numbers. He probably lost all the weight he put on from roids and then some.
As for not knowing what he took – we actually do know the exact names. And how long he took it – I think it is reasonable to take alex on his word that it was 2001 to 2003. I mean after that he left the texas clubhouse for NY and the mlb started implementing testing. I doubt he thought that was worth the risk espeically since he probably already knew he failed. He said he didnt but im sure they let him know at some point. And his numbers were the lowest of his career in 2004 which just adds to the evidence that that was his first season off the substance. I think those are all either fact or reasonable assumptions.
sj -
i agree that it’s all up to arod now, and that having things out in the open frees him if he was telling the truth and stays out of trouble from now on.
…but with you being in the business , do reporters have rights that the average citizen doesn’t ?pete was complaining about the way many think of the media last night. i think one of the things that the average thinking person doesn’t like is when a reporter crosses the line to being a paparazzi .
i think some of the backlash towards the media is this double standard that they get to invade someone’s privacy simply because they are reporters. it’s not just with stalking behavior . there are issues of libel too. it seems reporters are protected more with libel laws too.
i realize you are interested specifically in baseball and the yankees, but i’m curious about why it seems that reporters are allowed privileges that the average citizen isn’t.
86w183,
There are so many factors to consider.
ARod’s age in Texas was consistent with the typical age that baseball players reach their peak.
If we only look at HR, we ignore other offensive stats that could be inflated through steroids. ARod had a higher OPS+ in 2000, playing for Seattle, than he did in any year in Texas. Just as Pete used HR totals to say PEDs made ARod better, you could look at OPS+ and say PEDs made him worse. It makes no sense, but it illustrates the impossibility of gauging the effect of PEDs on an already great player.
There is no logical or consistent way for us to separate PED stats from clean stats, although I’m sure many writers will try to do just that.
Spoke to some friends, ST LOUIS CARDINAL fans all the buzz in Missouri is if *ALBERT PUJOLS is on the list,* he’s on record for defending *BONDS.* There are other
*teams concerned about an outing of the list of cheaters.*
Jeremy
Correction
Great point you made to Doreen.
As far as Clemons, Bonds and McGwire, I don’t think they will be voted into the HOF.
Randy,
As far as I know, you and I have the same right to investigate ARod as Roberts does. We can all snoop into ARod’s life as much as we want as long as we don’t break the law.
“My view is we should assume all players juiced through 2003″
jeremy-
i don’t agree with that at all. we should assume jeter has juiced ?
i don’t think so. if 50% used steroids. it means 50% didn’t. why should we assume everyone uses?
Dave,
Those are reasonable assumptions but they are just that, assumptions. We are not doctors and we don’t know what ARod took. We just aren’t qualified to say what benefits he received from PEDs.
My point is that HOF voters aren’t qualified to do that either.
Randy,
You are right. There is no reason to assume Jeter juiced.
What I meant to write is that we should assume all players juiced for the purposes of HOF voting. We should not keep clearly deserving players out of the HOF because they juiced or because we suspect they juiced.
Players with spotless reputations, like Jeter, should get extra credit for being above suspicion.
“As far as I know, you and I have the same right to investigate ARod as Roberts does. We can all snoop into ARod’s life as much as we want as long as we don’t break the law.”
jeremy-
that can’t be true because there are stalking laws. i just wonder where the line is that separates stalking laws from freedom of the press laws.
while i don’t know what the laws are, i have a hunch that if one is a stalker by nature, becoming a reporter is a good cover
“i don’t think so. if 50% used steroids. it means 50% didn’t. why should we assume everyone uses?”
You can’t. But those who didn’t use and knew about the issue but did nothing to bring the issue to light are as much part of the problem as the users themselves. Somebody or several somebodies neeeded to have the grapes to stand up to the union. Schilling may have come closest with his revelations to SI, but when the chips were really down before Congress he turtled. It was pretty obvious the Union got to him in advance of those hearings.
“Players with spotless reputations, like Jeter, should get extra credit for being above suspicion.”
jeremy-
thanks for clearing that up. makes sense to me.
Randy,
I’m no expert in this area, so I’m just speculating here. If there are state or local stalking laws that apply where ARod lives, they probably apply only to people who intend to menace or harass the victim. Roberts doesn’t have a license to break those laws, but she does have a legitimate reason for following ARod around: she is reporting on a celebrity. So she doesn’t run afoul of the law.
Of course, if she really breaks into ARod’s house, she goes to jail just as if you or I did it.
Since she is a celebrity of sorts now (TV appearances and a book), can other reporters try to dig up dirt on her? I see no reason why not.
Swisher, CC, Burnett and now Arod’s issues… wow, going to be an interesting season! Love to see Gardner outwork Melky for the CF job – but did I read somewhere (seem to remember) that Melky is out of options… meaning if he doesn’t make the team – he hits waivers? If this is true – there is no way that happens..
Anyone heard who the guest instructors are going to be in Spring this year? Only one i heard for sure was Guidry. Heading down and would love to know who to look for.