Moyer: A-Rod has no credibility
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 15, 2009 
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It’s easy for fans to complain about what columnists have to say about Alex Rodriguez. But check out what former teammate Jamie Moyer had to say about his admission of drug use.
“Who’s going to believe him?” Moyer said. “What credibility does he have now? The guy has a ton of talent,” Moyer said. “Why does he need that? Money? The expectations that came from the contract?”
The Yankees have little choice but to support Rodriguez. He is their teammate and an important part of the team. But, privately, some feel the same way Moyer does.
When such a supremely talented player resorts to drug use at a young age, it leaves every player in the game under a cloud of suspicion. For those players who made the decision not to cheat, it won’t be easy to forgive Rodriguez.
“It’s almost embarrassing to say that you play because of things that have happened and how they’ve been handled,” Moyer said.
Moyer has 22 years in the game and 246 wins. There is no questioning his credibility on a subject like this.
It must be my old age making me forget the forceful arguments for drug testing that Moyer was making 10, 15 years ago. I have also forgotten Mr. Moyer taking on the union 10 years ago when they were balking at any kind of testing. And I must also be forgetting how Mr Moyer turned down all those dollars from look-the-other way owners, because Mr. Moyer is just too clean for all that dirty dough.
45 year old still pitching? I bet he’s a juicer too.
After A rod is done playing I want to ask Moyer who the toughest out was between the Babe, Hank, Barry or Alex…. he faced them all
Yeah where is the credibility of Moyer? Isn’t it suspicious that a 47 year old pitcher can stay healthy all year long, regardless of how soft his stuff is? I am sick of people weighing in on A-Rod, and I could care less about what anyone outside of the 24 other guys in the Yankees clubhouse have to say about him. If one of them wants to come out and publicly say Alex has no credibility, then I would see that being a big deal. Jamie Moyer? Next.
I have no problem with what Jamie Moyer said and he is correct. I would also be surpised if Alex’s own team mates DIDNT feel the same way. Everyone is under the same cloud.
Like I have said before the problem I have is that how come he wasnt fighting his own union and forcing them to deal with this issue when it was happening staring back in 1998. He certainly was playing at that time. As they say 20/20 vision is easier after the fact.
Each player who took these drugs absolutely has to take responsibility for what they did and they each bear the most responsibility and should take whatever public and private scrutiny and bad things that happen to them. But for players who were around back then to didnt stand up for what they thought was right also bear some of the responsibility as well.
The other side of that coin is that when you are the greatest player in the game but playing second fiddle to the Bonds, Consecos and Mcgwires of the world you might feel the need to emulate to keep your rightful place in the ranks of the great players.
It’s pretty sad that great players felt the need to keep up with the initial cheaters but that is part of what being competitive means and with ownership and management encouraging it at the time it hard to complain about it now.
I have never been one to question your objectivity Pete, but you really seem to have it in for A-Rod. You decide to make a post about Jamie Moyer’s comment (relevant without a doubt), but make no mention of Schilling’s blog entry blasting the media for their role in the steroid scandal.
http://38pitches.weei.com/gene.....inted-out/
Those were certainly predictable responses. Just kill the messenger or impugn his credibility. It’s what people with no facts tend to do. Of course you know more than a guy who has played baseball for 22 year and was his teammate.
Excuse me, Jamie? Since when did you decide to become the moral equivilant to Curt Schilling? Have you never seen anyone do steroids before? He has been in the game long enough to know what’s been going on, and he hasn’t said anything about it.
And Pete, do you just try to find every negative comment about A-Rod? I can’t take any player or baseball official seriously when they complain about A-Rod. The hypocracy is amazing, and it is amazing to me, Pete, how you are so eager to put up meaningless quotes from a pitcher than no one cares about.
No credibility?! Tell that to the juicers on Philly that one the WS last year. How will Moyer feel about that?
Pete, stop peddling this worthless and hypocritical A-Rod garbage. Don’t pile on anymore. We don’t care. If all you care about is getting more comments (I certainly think you already get enough without stooping to such a low), then you should keep posting ridiculous quotes about A-Rod. Otherwise, give it a rest, Pete.
Did Jamie Moyer say anything about the other 103 players? or is Alex taking the fall for everyone?
The union issue is a great point. Any player complaining now needs to look in the mirror and blame themselves for not allowing testing. If the testing had been approved without a big fight with ownership this all would have ended years ago before it became such a joke.
Mike: I don’t have the remotest interest in what Curt Schilling has to say about anything. It’s hilarious beyond belief that Yankee fans are now turning to Curt Schilling to feel better about themselves. What has the world come to?
Maybe he’ll autograph a “bloody” sock for you.
Pete is crying a river because no one will going along on his daily bash A-rod tour.
Has Moyer commented on Bonds or Clemens?
Those were certainly predictable responses. Just kill the messenger or impugn his credibility. It’s what people with no facts tend to do. Of course you know more than a guy who has played baseball for 22 year and was his teammate.
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I don’t care if Moyer is credible or not (which he obviously is.) But he is clearly hypocritical too because, without a doubt, he has been on a team with Juicers. Probably EVERY team he has been on has had juicers.
As for you, Pete. Yes, there is nothing inherently wrong with this post. Just like you could post 300 quotes from people about A-Rod and hide behind the “well, they said it. I’m just reporting it.” All of your readers realize that this post has no objectivity. It’s not like Jamie Moyer is the Godfather of baseball (despite his age.) I think most people here don’t give a hoot about what he thinks.
You readers understand what your true message is by posting these quotes, Pete. You don’t like A-Rod. Fine. You could find hundreds of quotes chiding him. Doesn’t mean they aren’t true, but it also means that you may lose your objectivity.
And of course Pete,
you ignore all the other angles and facts that pertain to this case and jump on the bandwagon.
Mike: I don’t have the remotest interest in what Curt Schilling has to say about anything. It’s hilarious beyond belief that Yankee fans are now turning to Curt Schilling to feel better about themselves. What has the world come to?
Maybe he’ll autograph a “bloody” sock for you.
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Then why do you care about Moyer? At least Schilling has been continually outspoken (however stupid the things that come out of his mouth are.) Why does Moyer suddenly decide to speak up? He JUST became outraged at steroids? And why do YOU care what Moyer says?
Personally, I think that so many players have cheated in the last 10 years that I cant believe a word any of them say. Moreover, how many players elected in the past 25 years to the Hall of Fame used some sort of amphetimine? My guess is somewhere around 70%.
“Greenies”, as described in Ball Four,were handed out by trainers on every team in the 60′s and 70′s.There are substance abusers of all sorts in the Hall of Fame from the 80′s.
So are Jamie Moyer’s comments directed at A Rod or at everyone who ever took a chemical substance to enhance their ability to play? If he’s just talking about A Rod, then he needs to look around at just about every player who’s played in the last 40 years.
The problem with the A Rod circus is that he’s become the focal point of a chemical epidemic that was basically sanctioned by the lords of baseball for a long time. He is being singled out as a result of an illegal act by someone in the federal government acting in concert with a writer. That writer will profit by an illegal act, making her as dirty as the scoundrel who leaked court protected information.
No one is coming out of this looking good. It’s time to put the entire mess to bed.
Just wondering, and I’m serious, do any of you actually think Alex did anything wrong? It doesn’t seem that way. You all are quick to blame everybody but him.
Suffice it say, a player like Moyer has more credibility about this subject than you or I do. His words just cannot be dismissed, no matter how hard you may try.
No player who played through the Steroid Era and also saw a huge turnaround in his performance right at its height deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their credibility anymore, especially considering we are still at 1/104 of names of players who tested positive in ’03.
It may look like killing the messenger, but it’s based more in the fact that fans’ trust when it comes to players and their stances on steroids is pretty much non-existent right now. Considering that nobody (fans and reporters alike) has any facts about the depths of steroid usage back then, it’s unfair to attack people who are not immediately convinced that Jamie Moyer should be an authority on steroids. Frankly, I am sick of all players giving their two cents on steroid usage and wish the strategy was to let the media keep blathering on about it without reciprocation.
Just wondering, and I’m serious, do any of you actually think Alex did anything wrong? It doesn’t seem that way. You all are quick to blame everybody but him.
Suffice it say, a player like Moyer has more credibility about this subject than you or I do. His words just cannot be dismissed, no matter how hard you may try.
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Pete, you’re missing the point completely. People are no longer commenting on Jamie Moyer. He has certainly been around the game and knows much better than you, me, or anyone else here. The issue is YOU, Pete, and you’re apparent lack of objectivity. Like I said, you could quote 100 people hating on A-Rod. It wouldn’t be “untrue,” but it might be “unfair.”
That’s what people are getting upset about. You are bashing A-Rod, and you simply used a Jamie Moyer quote to do so. A rather hypocritical Jamie Moyer quote, at that.
So funny. I simply post a link to a story and I’m “bashing” A-Rod.
Like it or not, Moyer is a guy with a lot of respect in the game and a lot of friends and what he says is news. He’s the polar opposite of Schilling.
If we concede A-Rod is a lousy human being, a cheat, a liar and mean to all who come in contact with him, can we move on?
Moyer must not have thought him a bad guy when he was letting his kids hang out with him in the Seattle clubhouse because what kind of a parent would that make him?
Moyer is entitled to say what ever he wants, but it will be interesting to hear him explain to teammate J. C. Romero how he has no credibility.
You’re bashing A-Rod, Pete. Show us some stories from people who you feel legitimately support him.
No, I don’t feel he did anything wrong. I guess I must be some sort of moral midget in your eyes.
I’m not a big Alex fan, but can someone explain why there is no news about the Migues Tejada situation and the other 103 players that ffiled the tests?
I’m not a big Alex fan, but can someone explain why there is no news about the Migues Tejada situation and the other 103 players that ffiled the tests?
Guys!!! You proved Jamie correct without realizing it. Arod made EVRYONE lose credibility, even players like Jamie. The guy worked hard to remain in the game at this age, and now you are questioning his legitimacy because of what Arod has done…do you realize what you are doing here? Peace.
y is there no questioning moyer’s credibility?
So funny. I simply post a link to a story and I’m “bashing” A-Rod.
Like it or not, Moyer is a guy with a lot of respect in the game and a lot of friends and what he says is news. He’s the polar opposite of Schilling.
———–
Well, to be fair, this isn’t this first time, Pete. Also,, why do you suppose it took Jamie Moyer so long to get upset about steroids? Do you think Moyer would be willing to give back his WS ring if it was found out that half of his team did steroids? Probably not. That’s why Moyer should shut the hell up.
How many people care what a Philly has to say about a Yankee? I respect Moyer but just dont see the point of posting his opinion.. maybe if he was the only one speaking on the issue
“Of course they are,” Moyer said. “This changes everything – the way people look at him, the way people act toward him. It’s a shame. *What does he have to play for now?*”
That last line was a little over the top, maybe?
Moyer can’t break a pane of glass, but he sure likes throwing stones.
What A-Rod did was wrong. But, just like we believe a person that gets out of jail might be a changed person we also believe a person mistakes in the past should be forgiven somehow. All the people asking why didn’t he come forward or how did he let others admire him when he did wrong should ask themselves what they would do if they had a chance of forgetting the wrongs of the past. Now let’s get back to baseball, Please. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
“I’m not a big Alex fan, but can someone explain why there is no news about the Migues Tejada situation and the other 103 players that ffiled the tests?”
Because in terms of newsworthiness, Miguel Tejada is miles behind A-Rod. As for the tests, it is being chalked up to the fact that the one name magically came out through a leak but that the other 103 are now being better protected by the federal government. This will last presumably until we get another really slow baseball news week, or until the A-Rod story has completely run out of steam (if that’s even possible, tomorrow I’m sure it will be Lou Pineilla weighing in on Alex).
I really wish other players would keep their mouths shut and worry about themselves. I’m sure they have their own skeletons in their closet.
Of course A Rod did wrong! Of course we now know he is a cheater. Of course cheating is wrong!
But there are a lot more posts here indicating A Rod is a cheater than there are words written by sportswriters in any Sunday newspaper about the violation of his rights or the fact that Selena Roberts is looking to profit as a result of an illegal act.
Just wondering, and I’m serious, do any of you actually think Alex did anything wrong?
=======================================
Well I do. But then again, a lot people did something wrong with regards to this entire situation. I might as well be mad at everyone.
Can’t wait to see pictures from today!
Just wondering, and I’m serious, do any of you actually think Alex did anything wrong? It doesn’t seem that way. You all are quick to blame everybody but him.
Suffice it say, a player like Moyer has more credibility about this subject than you or I do. His words just cannot be dismissed, no matter how hard you may try.
—————————————-
Of course I think he did something wrong.
Yes he has no credibility either.
By the same token, steroid use was rampant throughout not baseball but sports in general for a good period of time and for that reason I really don’t care what anyone involved has to say about it. None of them have any credibility on the subject IMO. Just because guys come out now and say how bad it is means nothing to me. Where were they when it was going on? How do we know what they did or didn’t do themselves? Personally I trust Jamie Moyer as little as I trust A-Rod.
This stuff is all so ridiculous. I’ve said it over and over, it was the steroid era, it is what it is. At some point you just need to accept that and move on.
Pete,
I seriously doubt that anyone here thinks A-Rod is in the right. And if they do, they are wrong (in my opinion). A-Rod did something that embarassed the game, embarassed his teams, and embarassed himself. It was a huge mistake that speaks very negatively for his character and is something that he will have to deal with the consequences of for the rest of mylife.
I think there are two issues that many of us have with how you are handling this. First,you really don’t seem focus on the fact that this was a huge, systemic problem. There were at least 103 other players in 2003 alone that sullied there character and the game in the same manner that A-Rod did. Moreover, the owners almost certainly weren’t innocent in how this whole situation played out either. So it seems the amount of scorn and vitriol you direct towards A-Rod seems disproportionate.
Again, I am not saying that he doesn’t deserve to be criticized. But criticize the game. Criticize the owners and the hundreds of other players (we are all kidding ourselves if we dont think it was HUNDREDS who did the same thing). Don’t turn A-Rod into some modern day Hester Prin as if he was the only baseball player who ever sinned.
Second, its not just the level of criticism that you direct towards A-Rod, its also the amount of joy you seem to get out of doing so. Reporting is one thing. The plethora of gratuitous snide comments are another. You really do seem like you have a major axe to grind. Granted, I have never met A-Rod. Most of the other commenters never have either. He could be the worst person to be around on the planet. Frankly, based on some of his more public actions, I wouldn’t be shocked if he was a nightmare to have to be around day in and day out for the length of a baseball season. But if he really is that awful and he really does deserve the axe-grinding, I think you should also come right out say that your writing about A-Rod is NOT going to be objective.
You have every right to dislike they guy (and as I noted above, your dislike could very well be completely justified); but I think you should make it clear that any commentary we receive from you about A-Rod is colored by those personal opinions.
Whether it’s steroids, HGH, or amphetamines; whether it’s 50% or 80% incidence of players using, depending on who you read/believe; the unfortunate fact is that most players for the last 40-50 years used some sort of PED.
Based on this, and the impossibility of ever knowing for sure who did/did not use, and at what point in their careers, you can’t edit the record books. Besides, the old saying is that once the next pitch is thown, whatever happened on the previous play is now done and in the books. Essentially, what’s done is done, and it’s time to move on.
What we are then left to deal with, each and everyone of us who is a fan, is how to regard the individual players and their feats. That’s the only thing left to debate. And this fan is very disappointed, not only in Alex, Clemens, etc. But I’m disappointed that the pure innocence of being a fan of something so commercially exploitative as professional baseball continues to be ripped away from me.
Baseball was always my escape from the rigors, the troubles of day-to-day living. And now those same troubles creep into it, and nothing can ever be the same.
I get some solace from looking back on how baseball survived the Black Sox scandal, and the tragedy of segregation. I wonder who will be the next great player to lead baseball out of this, the next Babe Ruth. It sure won’t be you know who.
Sad.
A-Rod was wrong. So is Captain Temerity (Bud Selig), who, if he had any honor at all, would resign for his level of responsibility in this mess. So was every owner, coach, manager and trainer that looked the other way. So was the breach of confidentiality regarding the 2003 tests. So was the media cheering McGwire & Sosa. Today’s testing needs to be tougher and the education of young players needs to get more specific and thorough.
Pete simply can’t get over the fact that so many people who read his blog have pointed a finger at a journalist in this case. Pete don’t rage against the public cuz you may not have any readers left if you do. Remember the customer is always right. And like it or not your readers are your customers and most of them are going to support ARod through this. If you have a dislike for ARod you are better served talking about it with someone who wants to hear about it. Most yankee fans know ARod screwed up and is a juicer. What they don’t care for is you going on and on about selena roberts and shooting the messenger etc. Get over it. Move on. It seems like you are affected by what happened to selena more than ARod is affected by taking steroids.
i am with pete on this one. moyer comments are cool and you know he right. jamie certainly entitled to his opinion. pete just curious if you know any reporter covering the phillies, i wonder whaat jamie comments are on his teamate j.c romero. though i think jc did everything right and well got suspended
Do I think A-Rod did something wrong? Nope. I would have done the same thing. Anybody in sports looks for a leg up on competition. Big deal anyway, steroids only give you more power, doesn’t help your defense, and yet you still have to hit the ball.
Look at hockey a few years ago, goalies were wearing equipment two or three sizes to big, just to cover extra net (ex, Jean Sebastien-Giguere) Why is nobody crucifying him?
Bottom line, A-Rod is still one of the greatest ever.
“Just wondering, and I’m serious, do any of you actually think Alex did anything wrong? It doesn’t seem that way. You all are quick to blame everybody but him.
Suffice it say, a player like Moyer has more credibility about this subject than you or I do. His words just cannot be dismissed, no matter how hard you may try.”
Of course we think A-rod did something wrong but we’re not obsessed like you and your gal pal Selena. Pete, your words can be dismissed though because everyone that has visit this blog over the last couple of years knows where you stand with A-rod even before the steroid scandal, and it’s not a shock to anyone that your acting like you won the lottery.
I suggest Moyer handle things on the field and not in the media if he has a gripe with Arod.
When the Phillies meet the Yankees in the World Series, I wouldn’t be surprised to see ol’ Jamie dust off Arod with a high powered 62 mph inside fastball.
Pete, I think we may actually be able to question his credibility. IF the steroid culture was as “loosy-goosy” as A-Rod makes it sound, then this quote by Moyer is telling
“I can tell you that I was there for 10 years and I never saw anyone take steroids,” Moyer said, according to the paper.
Perhaps he never bothered to look, because he knew what he would find. Only through the protection of 22 years of service and a telephone, was he finally able to confront a steroid user. Glad you finally got the courage, Jamie!
Oh come on Jamie has been around baseball for 22 years, played on 7 teams, probably pitched along side juicers, and had hitters on his team who juiced. I am tired of hearing all these people coming out and throwing stones at Alex when they benefited from juicers on their own teams.
DT- Arod better watch out, he might get a small black and blue if that happened.
Why are the Yankees and A-Rod having a press conference on Tuesday.
If everyone has already decided nothing he says can be believed, there really is no point except to sell a few papers and try to catch him in a lie.
Neither of those benefits the Yankees or him.
For the record, the Mike R posting in this thread isn’t me. Not that anyone knows who I am anyway. lol
Why weren’t all these ballplayers and reporters screaming from the rooftops when all of this stuff was happening…was Rick Helling the only moral ballplayer at the time?
The short answer is because they all stood the chance to make a ton of money.
As for the reporters…I don’t know maybe they were all just too afraid to open thier mouths, because they wouldn’t get the next big interview or wouldn’t be able to be on ESPN or get the next big job at SI?
My first post to this site. I have been a die hard Yankee fan for many decades. I wish there was a way for the Yankees to move A-Rod. I am sure there is none. I can understand but do not condone marginal players and players with injuries using steroids. But A-Rod had all the natural talent in the world. He had no reason whatsoever to use steroids. His odd battle between ego and insecurity was the reason. It’s the reason for all his troubles.
Hey Pete,
Thanks for the post. I agree that it is a big deal what Moyer has to say. And I think A-Rod was very, very wrong. I am not sure what a blog post about what baseball’s eldest statesman has to say somehow sacrifices your journalistic integrity. Why don’t the rest of you worry about being fans and let Pete worry about being a journalist, something you know nothing about.
And yes, he’s defended Selena Roberts, because she did a very good job getting you information on the game you care about and the A-Rod decided to, sort of psychotically in my opinion, attack here and make stuff up.
You know ,you folks don’t like reading Pete’s blog, go elswewhere. It’s that simple.
I’ve heard Mussina asked about what he thought about people who juiced. As far as maybe losing some games becuase he pitched against a juicer. His response at least publicly was.
” he isn’t upset becuase he probably had juicers on his own team that helped him win games”
Interesting sidebar in Newsday today, about Steve Wilstein, the AP reporter who first noticed the bottle of andorstenedione in Mark McGwire’s locker. He sure was torched, not only by players, Tony LaRussa (where’s his credibility these days?), but by members of the press.
Jamie Moyer makes a very valid point, and as a very longtime professional ballplayer, he has every right to do so, a lot more than most of us here. But, it ain’t just Alex who has to hang his head, or who, by Moyers’ definition, have no credibility.
And this all makes me think of a question that Pete asked a little while back – Is taking PEDs wrong, in the first place?
There’s been an awful lot of mental energy and angst generated over this issue. Is it wrong? Just because some players used and some didn’t, is it wrong? And why?
if this happened to a family member would you disown them?,no you wouldn’t.forget the reasons.
arod made a devastating mistake but we need to remember that he is human.
arod needs to just go out & play & not worry if people like him or how he looks or sounds.
when he is asked a question i am not sure he even understands what he is saying.he is too worried about how he is perceived.
he needs to have an i don’t give a crap attitude,it will do him a world of good.
he needs to say at the press conference,i made a mistake & i am sorry,i messed up my legacy & i am no longer in control of what happens concerning the hof,etc…
all i can do going forward is try my best to be a good, honest person.
what is done is done.arod can’t change that.he still is making 30 million a year on average,lives in luxury & needs to learn to be comfortable in his own skin.that should be his mission in life.the rest will take care of itself.
NYYanksFan
So true so true!
Because after 22 years on MLB Moyer has never put anything illegal in his body. Sure. Right.
Jamie Moyer can say what he wants. But this is what’s wrong with baseball. Brett Farve or Tom Brady don’t comment when guys like Pacman Jones get arrested or Shawn Merriman test positive. They just celebrate them with MVP’s or call guys like Rodney Harrison warriors.
You know ,you folks don’t like reading Pete’s blog, go elswewhere. It’s that simple.
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Most of us do, we just wish he would give us an objective picture on A-Rod. Or, if he isn’t going to, at least predicate his posts with an explanation of his personal displeasure for A-Rod.
Pete
With position player reporting, I guess we can expect pretty much a three ring circus tomorrow. Is the one who shall remain nameless scheduled to show up or is he coming in at a later date?
“You know ,you folks don’t like reading Pete’s blog, go elswewhere. It’s that simple.”
Agreeing with Pete on everything is not part of the terms of service of the blog. If it was, he would be posting for you and him.
Why is taking a chemical more wrong than putting a foreign substance on the ball or in the bat?
It doesn’t matter if Moyer has taken steroids or not. People on his team certainly have. If a PED user hits the game winning HR for Moyer, does that W not have any credibility? If his catcher was using HGH, does the entire game become void? Where does it end Jamie? And where do you look at yourself in the mirror, and your own teammates?
SIMPLY PUT, JAMIE MOYER WON GAMES WITH THE HELP OF STEROIDS WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS THE ONE USING THEM. Please, Jamie. Take the credibility out of those games.
Yanksfan In Austin,
I think Pete is a wonderful reporter. He is hardworking and clearly cares deeply about providing great information to the readers of his blog. There is a reason why I check this blog way too often everyday. Pete does an incredible job.
My only point is his A-Rod coverage seems skewed. Again, A-Rod did something that was really, really wrong and he probably is not the kind of guy Pete (or many of us) would want to spend a second with if we weren’t being paid to do so. But just come out and say “I really, truly do not like this guy and my coverage will be strongly colored by this fact.”
Again, outside of the A-Rod related editorializing, Pete is absolutely TOP-NOTCH.
The same writers that are yammering and hammering about Rodriguez were surprisingly silent through the years of other players being outed, are the same ones talking about Josh Hamilton being such a shining light for overcoming his demons with 7 years of drug addiction. Hamilton has become the media’s and self-righteous high executioners (fans) shining knight for all that is pure about baseball.
I wonder why Jamie Moyer, beacon of truth and reality that he is, isn’t quoted to start threads around here more often.
Moyer has no credibility simply for the fact that he is calling out a single player for a leaguewide problem.
Saying that posting about steriods during spring training is cool because some old fart player made a comment is just lame.
I would hope that in a Yankee blog we could focus on the game instead of figuring out who took what and when. That is more fitting on a soap opera blog.
Mike R February 15th, 2009 at 11:51 am
For the record, the Mike R posting in this thread isn’t me. Not that anyone knows who I am anyway. lol
I was going to mention something in a previous thread. I have been posting here, and a bunch of other places, as Mike R. for years. It doesn’t bother, just know it’s bound to create some confusion as to who is who.
Pete-
I think we all understand that Alex did something very wrong and very stupid.
It’s just irritating, as Yankee fans, that when this news comes out about the highest profile player in the game, every damn player has an opinion.
Where was Jaimie, given his credibility and knowledge of the game, when people were using this stuff? He was an avid spokesman than?
Where was Moyer when JC Romero’s issues came to light? No reaction there.
But now Moyer has a stage to make these statements and crucify Alex, and he takes full advantage.
It seems everyone has an opinion when opinions are being sought out. But when people don’t care (Romero), nobody says anything.
I’d really like to see Moyer say to Romero to his face, “You have no credibility”
“Moyer has 22 years in the game and 246 wins. There is no questioning his credibility on a subject like this.”
i think that 22 years in the game gives jamie moyer an incredible amount of baseball knowledge, but there’s a problem with what he’s said about arod.
if he’s been in the game that long and been a teammate of that many players, what did he do when he knew a teammate was doing peds?
the only way that someone could play for 22 years and not know what was happening in the game is to close their eyes,ears,and mind to what was around them.
my question to him was when you suspected ped use by a teammate in your 22 years, what did you do about it?
if his answer is that he did nothing, my next question is why are you going out of your way to be outspoken now?
If 85% of the players are clean and annoyed that they will always be questioned if they are users, then they should go to the union and tell them we want Olympic type testing, blood tests, the whole works. If they have nothing to hide, there shouldn’t be any issues.
“But when such a supremely talented player resorts to drug use at a young age, it leaves every player in the game under a cloud of suspicion.”
LOL, so Arod is responsible for the whole friggin league? There are 100+ players on the list!
Pete,
Why do you state that there is “no questioning Moyer’s credibility” when Moyer simply advanced an opinion?
“Credibility” goes to whether someone can be believed, not whether he has an opinion. Sure, I’ll believe Moyer is upset. Every clean player deserves to be upset.
But you phrased this post to imply Moyer doesn’t believe that ARod was truthful in his confession, and that we should believe Moyer over ARod. There is no basis for that.
You said yourself you’ve had enough of posting about ARod. You seem to dislike the comments being made in his support. You will always see these comments when you write posts critical of ARod because this is a Yankee news site.
Unless you enjoy writing comments in your defense and taking your readers to task, I suggest, once again, that you follow your own advice and stop editorializing about ARod.
If I was a clean player, I’d be ticked off.
I’d be ticked off at the players who tested positive, the Union for not taking more aggressive action to stem PED use, and MLB for the same.
But, what’s done is done.
Everybody can line up and fire their verbal bullets at Arod all they want. It won’t change a thing.
Unlike Rick Helling, who did step up in Union meetings and got KILLED for it by his own peers, Jamie Moyer didn’t say a word.
He was a player rep at that time. Where was his moral outrage in 1998? 2000? 2002? It was nowhere to be found.
When has Jamie Moyer ever spoken out about PED use prior to Arod testing positive? IIRC, this is the first time he has ever spoken out on the subject.
Legitimate concern or piling on and unpopular player among his peers? I’ll leave that for others to judge.
Did Arod “do wrong”? Of course he did. Nobody is denying his “wrongness” in this matter.
However, he was also done “wrong”. Leaking his name, the only one thus far, out of 103 other players from a sealed court document is a crime. At the present time, an unsolved crime.
No outrage on that? Ask Jamie this simple question. As a player rep, would he have voted to re-open the CBA if there was no agreement in place to keep provisional testing confidential? He would probably say no.
Why is that important? It makes whatever he has to say on this subject right now moot.
None of this obsolves Arod. However, it does call into question why someone would be so willing to break the law to out him? A little disturbing if you ask me.
Jason Whitlock wrote a column on Foxsports.com that is required reading on this subject.
Folks should read it as they are ingesting all of the opinions on this issue. It offers perspective that differs from media and (suspected) clean player moralizations.
Arod has to live with his actions. So do the players, the clean one’s, who kept their mouths shut and made more money from the game as revenues grew knowing, the game was dirty.
They are as culpable as the users.
Ripping Arod doesn’t change that fact.
Pete-
I will say, for a guy hating all the A-Rod steroid talk, you do find a way to post everything that comes out about it, including other player comments, which just get the blog heated.
I think, at this point, posting about ST gets the blog in a much cheerier mood.
And on the issue of credibility:
Remember when Rafael Palmeiro was all outspoken about steroids? He aplyed a great deal of time in the league.
IF we never found out about him using PED’s, would he be one of the more credible opinions?
My point is, until we find out everything about every player, which will not happen, you can’t say one guy is ‘credible’ cause he played the game.
JMO, if you played in ’90-’03, that makes you not credible.
Whether you used drugs yourself, or aware they were around and teammates were using, you have a reason to keep your mouth shut, not say a word, and that makes you an enabler.
Nobody is credible cause when all of this was going on, nobody said a damn word. EVERYONE BENEFITTED!
played*
what will we do in the future when scientists create great athletes,beautifull babies by using dna from great athletes or beautifull people? it is coming if not already here.
i think over the years baseball & people in general will better understand the steroids era & know how too better handle it.
players now use drugs,maybe hgh or medication for add.there will always be something.
what do we do when a small percentage of all athletes are clean.every era will have a drug that affects that particular era in a significant way.
this whole era is clouded.how do we know who used,when & how much when there are steroids that leave you’re system in 72 hours & no reliable test for hgh?
we all thought arod was clean until he came clean.we are one or two players away from throwing our hands up in the air & giving up on the issue.
what happens if pujols & manny’s name come out?
arod needs to be supported 100 percent.what he did was & is wrong but there are much worse people in this world.
it is time too turn the page on the steroid era.mlb needs to put the best testing in place & have unannounced testing year round & if i am arod i go to my own doctor,get tested & have the samples saved.i do not see how anyone can stop that.
arod is in the gym every day & players years ago did not work out like they do now because weightlifting was misunderstood back then.
i knew many baseball,football,bodybuilders on steroids in the 80′s & 90′s and most of them were terrible athletes.
steroids make you big,strong,heal quicker but they do not give you talent.
arod is one of the greatest baseball players ever.we need to remember that.he got caught up & made a terrible mistake that he will pay for the rest of his life but it is everybody’s fault,not just arod’s.
if arod & the yankees make it to the ws we all will be rooting & cheering him on.what do we think if arod hits 60 hr’s & 160 rbi??
Everybody in baseball, during this time was guilty.
IMO, you were one of two types of guys during this time:
1. you used PED’s
2. you played with guys that used, knew they gave you a much better chance to win, and didn’t care enough about the sanctity of the game as much as winning, and, thus, didn’t say a word.
Nobody can claim ignorance. Players, Owners, MLB officials, etc. all got rich, won games off PED use.
Like somebody else said: If Moyer gets a W cause somebody using PED’s hits a walk-off, should that W be taken away? My guess is Moyer would say, ‘No’.
“Moyer has no credibility simply for the fact that he is calling out a single player for a leaguewide problem.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess the way I read it is that he was answering questions he was asked about one of the very few players that has admitted to use. A player he actually played with for four years and a player who his sons idolized. In my mind that’s a bit different than ‘calling him out’.
And, sure sounds as if he wants stricter rules/punishment for the league wide problem (from the article)…
“I wish Major League Baseball and the [players'] union could figure out some plan to deal with all this. Whatever list [of positive 2003 tests] there is, throw the names out there or throw the list away. Start with a clean slate. It’s something the industry needs. How they do it doesn’t matter.”
In 2004, baseball began punishing players who tested positive for steroids. A first positive test now carries a 50-game suspension. Moyer suggested toughening that.
“Implement a system where if you do it, you’re taking a chance,” he said. “Make the punishment stringent enough that nobody would be interested in doing it. I don’t know if you could do lifetime because you’re taking someone’s livelihood away. But a year might be fine. One year, then if you do it again – lifetime.”
“You were a little hard on the Beaver last night”!
June Cleaver to Ward Cleaver on Leave it to Beaver.
How does 22 years in the league, during the steroid era, make you credible?
Palmeiro had 19. If his news never came out, we’d be labeling him a credible person and one that ‘did it the right way’.
If Andy Pettitte can take HGH to boost his recovery time, I don’t put it past the oldest pitcher in the league to do it. It’s not like Andy has character flaws that Jamie doesn’t. They are both great guys, I’m sure.
Point being, how do you know anything about Moyer? Don’t go labeling guys credible and not credible cause you agree with their opinion Pete.
You played ’90-’03, you are guilty ’til proven innocent. Especially a 46 year old pitcher.
everybody’s numbers are intermingled with the steroid era.
either you were using ped’s or you had several players on you’re team that changed outcomes of games.players lost jobs to other players using,everybody became rich beyond comprehention.
every players salary increased because of the steroid era including moyer,so he should think twice before judging anyone.
the problem i have with moyer is if it was a family member,wife or friend he would be there for them or should be.i understand being dissappointed in arod but to kill him is wrong.
if you do not like arod because you think he is a phony,bad person,etc.. fine but moyer imo benefitted by the steroid era financially,is he going to give the money back.
Even Paul Byrd was using.
I’m really disappointed in Alex. When I was his teammate, I looked up to him. He was an MVP like me — now it’s all over for him. I’m glad Pete has exposed him in this way. Pete has so much integrity in assessing these matters.
p.s. Pete, I FedEx’d that signed box of fake mustaches on Wed. It should’ve made it to you by Valentine’s Day. Enjoy!
Aaron: Bonds can keep the record
There’s a nice piece in the AJC by Terence Moore and its worth a read…
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/conte.....blgs_moore
ESPN suspended Scott Van Pelt for his comments about Bud Selig? I didnt know that.
I heard what he said that caused it, and thought it was the most real and honest thing I’ve heard from ESPN Radio in years.
So much for freedom of the press.
“You were a little hard on the Beaver last night”!
June Cleaver to Ward Cleaver on Leave it to Beaver.
********************************************************
LOL.
What did van pelt say?
Why didn’t more players and owners come forward and complain during the “steroid era”?
Maybe it’s a case of simple economics.
Post-strike of the mid 90′s until today – minimum player salaries and average player salaries nearly tripled.
Fan attendance was at an all time high.
Players were putting up better numbers – salaries were going up – fans were clicking the turnstiles. Who wants to play Chicken Little and say “the sky is falling?”
van pelt audio
http://deadspin.com/5148743/es.....ime-update
Jeremy
February 15th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
What did van pelt say?
http://deadspin.com/5148743/es.....ime-update
I’m too slow again. Beaten to the post my Mark Messier.
Hey DT
Don’t fret and
Keep your stick on the ice!
Pete-
No questioning his credibility?? That’s what they say about everyone…until they test positive or someone accuses them of doping…
So how can you so definitively say that he has 100% credibility? Sometimes it’s as if you just stir the pot to get responses, and that, my friend, shows a little bit of a sell out mentality…
So what I am saying is that you cannot give ANY player from this era 100% credibility because ANYONE could have been juicing; Jeter and Ripken could have been buying from each other… WE JUST DONT KNOW.
So, Pete, Jamie Moyer is just as likely to have juiced as anyone else.
What does having pitched 22 years and 246 wins have to do with credibility?
Clemens pitched 20+ years and has 350+ wins and we all know where his credibility rests now.
I really love this blog – but seriously – why does anyone associated with baseball have anymore credibility on this matter or subject – and I mean me as a fan, owners, players, union members, the media, etc.
On Pete’s lack of integrity:
“Off the record, several Yankees bloggers feel the same way. They have little choice but to support Pete A. He is a beat writer and an important part of the blogging community.”
“No questioning his credibility?? That’s what they say about everyone…until they test positive or someone accuses them of doping…”
Reminds me of what I say about serial killer. They are always nice and quiet right up until they find the bodies in the basement. LOL
Moyer is right, A-Rod has no credibility. And Moyer hasn’t played a season in MLB where someone wasn’t doing steroids. When everyone is as outraged over the steroid use that was happening before these guys were born I’ll care now.
Pete, I think 99% of people think A-Rod was wrong. People tend not to like selective justice. I’m okay with people being upset over this. But I feel its kind of silly to overboard with the “he’s horrible” and then during the season cheer for every win that he will be part of.
until that list comes out and moyer’s name isn’t on it… no player in baseball has any credibility.
I think that we need to change the tone of the discussion (especially the media). The demonization of steroid use and ARod is about selling newspapers and ratings and money re: Selena Roberts. Medical innovations from gene therapies to nanotechnologies are coming. Forget this ban on using them. Some of these will be decided for us as children; are we to be disqualified for having gene therapy to cure eg muscular dystrophy in utero. Heck, lets just go to HGH. If this speeds healing then should it be used in short term periods after lets say TJ surgery? What if it cuts the recovery time by 6 months and short term use has limited side effects. These are all questions that need to be considered. Yet we can’t look to the future b/c we stuck in a romanticized nostalgic past that really isn’t true either. We need forward thinking here or we will repeat our mistakes ofthe “steroid era”.
Umm …anyone know how to unbold a name?
Of course A-Rod is wrong — and any other player (Giambi, etc.)who used PEDs. However, the problem here is that Pete, Moyer and a slew of others dislike Alex for reasons beyond his steroid use. Their venom comes not from “I hate A-Rod because he used steroids.” but plain old “I hate A-Rod.” That’s where their integrity and credibility come into question. Contrast the reaction to Giambi’s quasi-admission to A-Rod’s admission and you’ll see that their hatred comes from something deeper than steroid use.
I’m so sick n tired of petes rants on a rod. Ok we get it already pete. Give it a rest
pete,
you are by far the best baseball writer/blogger on the internet…and i need my daily dosage of your blog like Arod needed his daily hit of peds between 2001 – 2003…but please do not hide behind the “don’t kill the messenger” line…. just admit you don’t like the guy and we’ll all move on….
you can’t quote jamie moyer and all the doomsday players with “credibility” and omit the other players who are on AROD’s side….
when you say moyer has credibility do you mean as a human being or a baseball player? because if its as a baseball player then schilling has as much if not more credibility as moyer and you make no mention of what he said….
and i’d like to know if moyer has never ever taken some sort of “NoDoz” or caffeine drink….. “Red Bull” anyone?….Pete? have you?…or even cortisone shots because to me thats cheating as well….if you take anything that may possibly give you an advantage, whether legal or not, that is cheating….
lets not crucify arod when i would say 100% of all players have taken something to help them play better….
Ask Jamie Moyer if he’ll volunteer to turn in his World Series ring since his teammate J.C. Romero tested positive for PEDs in September. Pete didn’t mention Romero in his blurb about credibility.
JeterFan2
February 15th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Umm …anyone know how to unbold a name?
Jeet fan – leave the website field blank on your reply.
ok — testing
if it works thanks DT
Moyer’s statements may have focused on Alex but Jamie’s comments really pertain to the credibility of the game during the steroid era.
That’s why it’s time to release the 103 names…sunshine is the best credibility…not the selective disclosure of sealed information.
It’s also time to “oust Selig”.
The game will not be cleansed unless it purges Selig and his incompetent leadership. He failed to maintain the integrity of the game yet he skims $18 million from the game for being a buffoon.
Bud must go!
This A-rod stuff is like John Sterling radio on WMCA in the 70′s…or Bob Grant on WABC in the 90′s…bombastic drum beating…let’s move on to baseball.
How many games into the season will it be before all of the A-Rod supporters turn on him for striking out in the ninth with the bases loaded, down three runs? The most hilarious aspect of this steroids “revelation” is that so many fans are backing A-Rod 100 percent, presumably for the first time.
“How many games into the season will it be before all of the A-Rod supporters turn on him for striking out in the ninth with the bases loaded, down three runs? The most hilarious aspect of this steroids “revelation” is that so many fans are backing A-Rod 100 percent, presumably for the first time.”
I’ve been supporting A-Rod from the beginning, even in his “awful unclutch 2008″ he was still by far the most valuable player on the team. It’s funny how Pete clearly isn’t happy with how quickly the A-Rod story is proceeding, he was hoping to milk it for a few months and he’s doing his best to keep it an issue.
Alex deserves to be judged by his performance on the field.
Fans will pretty much forgive a contrite athlete for just about anything in there personal lives…but will not tolerate poor performance on the field of play.
The media will recycle a story until the consumers tires of the replay…then we all move on to something else…it’s fun!
Probably the same number of people who won’t care what he did nearly as much as they are claiming to now when he gets an RBI and contributes to a win.
As a life long Yankee fan of about 55 years, contrite is not the one word I would us to describe Arod’s confession.
*use
1.) PED’s are bad medicine for the individual and society writ large.
2.) The selective release of sealed documents is also bad medicine for the individual and society.
3.) It is time for MLB baseball to replace the leadership (Owners/Players Union).
Possibly the most pointless and worthless post ever on this site. Jamie Moyer??? Yawn…. PA your obvious bias against A-rod is getting pretty old, dude. This post is complete garbage
Wow, Jamie Moyer has an opinion of A-rod. How interesting. Gee Pete, we’re all aware of your hatred of all things A-rod, but sniffing up Moyers a$$ for validation? Sad…
Travis,
We turn on anyone who strands 3 in the bottom of the ninth. Where have you been? Lol…
We need 40/130 from A-rod, not confessions. He doesn’t owe anyone anything, especially the media.
Suck it Yankee fans…Moyer has more credibility than A-Rod. How dare any of you stick up for A-Rod. The mans a fraud, your teams made up of frauds. I wish no more titles come your way.