Take the poll: Melky or Brett in CF?
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 19, 2009 
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Fans and media spent much of the winter doubting Brian Cashman’s assertion that either Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner would play center field. And with good reason, too. C-Money once pledged his love for Bubba Crosby only to sneak in at the last minute and sign Johnny Damon.
But it’s Feb. 19 and the the center field at this stage will be either the gritty, gutty Gardner or the rocket-armed Melkman.
Obviously much can change between now and April 6 or any time after. But the Yankees seem prepared to pick of these guys, have them hit ninth and move along with the season.
Damon, now the left fielder, could play center at the risk of burning out his aging legs. Or the Yankees would wedge Nick Swisher into the position. He has experience there but he’s not especially good.
Or perhaps Cashman should dip into his inventory of prospects and make a trade.
Who do you like? Vote over in the poll to the right and explain your choice in the comments section.
I think that Melky has been given a rude awakening and he will be a pleasant surprise
Gardner > Melky
Defense: Melky with a slight edge, given his cannon of an arm, but Brett doesn’t exactly have Damon’s arm attached to his shoulder either. Gardner can cover a bit more ground, but not a substantial amount more than Melky
Offense: This, IMO, is where Gardner can really pull away from Melky. He possesses enough speed that he doesn’t need to hit for power, unlike Melky.
I’ll never forget that game winning at-bat Gardner had this past season. Put the bat on the ball, and got a run to score. I don’t think Melky could have hung in there the way Brett did, but who knows.
Gardner is the new “next best thing” in the organization and that is great, but don’t count Melky out just yet. Remember Melky is still a young guy too and I think the competition will bring out the best in him.
Well, I guess I’ll always be partial to Melky. Let’s see what he does this spring. He really, really went off-course last season. Maybe he can go back to being what he was, which wasn’t bad. He’s got a great arm in centerfield and while I know there are disagreements about how he goes about tracking fly balls, he seemed to do just fine to me. Prior to last season, he was a decent hitter. I thought he got carried away after starting the season with too many homeruns and never got back on track. He also needs to pace himself, because in the seasons prior to last season, he was a .300 hitter until the end of the season.
At the very least, I hope there is a true contest out there for centerfield. I hope they both do so well that it’s a difficult decision – and not that they both do so poorly everyone’s wringing their hands about what needs to be done.
I agree with Hector. Melky has the greater upside of the two young guys. Perhaps because this is predominantly a veteran club, I think a lot of people forget that kids like Melky and Cano are YOUNG. The off season reports on Melky sounded like he got the message and was working hard to show he belongs. Not to take anything away from Gardner. It would be great to package his hustle with Melky’s tools. I am afraid, though, that he might just be another great AAAA player. I see little point in making Swisher a starter at CF. It isn’t his primary position and he will get plenty of work DHing and backing up the corner OFs and 1st base.
platoon Melky and Gardner.
If neither is producing enough then play Damon there 3 days a week.
Avoid Swisher in CF.
If you can get Edmonds for a million bucks that may be an option – assuming his defense is still good (haven’t seen him play much the last 2 years)
Melky or Gardner? As my friend Boogie might respond: “Mantle”.
Look at the CHONE projections for both Melky and Gardner:
Melky: .280ba, .345OBP, .747OPS.
Gardner: .258ba, .341OBP, .686OPS.
I like the fact there is competition for the position.
If neither guy impresses, they have enough inventory to acquire a CF before leaving Tampa.
I’m hoping the Melkman can get his head out of his tail and realize its now or never for him.
Something tells though Gardner is going to win the job. His legs are a real weapon.
If he can hit enough, its hard to see how Melky beats him out.
All I would want is decent defense and a good OBP. Melky has proven he can’t consistently get on base and, I hope I am wrong here, I just don’t think Gardner can hit big league pitching. So I voted for a trade. Who to trade for, I don’t know. And the new CF would hopefully only have to man the position for a year. I really liked the idea of Cameron.
I think Brett will win. Joe seems to love him and his speed. He wants some pesky guys on the team, and Brett fits the bill. I think as long as Melky doesn’t go wild hitting, and Brett doesn’t absolutely stink he will win.
I am shocked to see Gardner with so many votes so far – Melky has proven himself to a certain degree in the majors and Gardner has done nothing but show that he can’t handle it.
I’m 100% for the Melkman right now until Gardner proves he’s worth a spot on this roster. Speed is valuable, but Melky isn’t the slowest runner and will get on base more while driving in more. Damon is an above average leadoff hitter already. Melky. Melky. Melky.
Melky’s out of options, so he may get a longer look…
I’d say Melky, but on a short leash. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually trade for someone like Cameron.
“If neither guy impresses, they have enough inventory to acquire a CF before leaving Tampa.”
Problem is who’s selling a decent everyday CF? Cameron could probably be had. Maybe someone like Spilborghs (sp?)in Colorado? GM in Zona would probably drive Eric Byrnes to NYC and be Cashman’s butler for a week if the Yankees took on that contract.
Brett Gardner. His value as a speedy lead off hitter (read: jose reyes clone) outweighs any other potential downfalls.
Brett seemed to be doing well at the end of last season, so I voted for him. But, really, in my mind it’s virtually a tie among Brett, Melky and Gardner.
Unfortunately, all of them project to be below-average center fielders. One positive thing is that if one of them is injured, there will be little drop-off.
…waits for the obligatory “Jeter to CF” response.
Melky please. I think it’s his job to lose.
Melky. I think both stay in NY, but Melky starts. Gardner can be better off the bench, a slap hitter and late inning stolen base threat, but melky has the better arm, and has shown he can hit at times for average and power.
There’s something called “intangibles”. Winning teams have it. The Yankees of the Dynasty Years of the late nineties had it. We didn’t have an all-star at every position. But we had some players that were scrappy and played every game like it was their last. Not entirely sure if Brett Gardner is that type of player. But I’d like him to get an extended look to see.
it is very rare that a cf who hits only a few hr & rbi’s makes a ml team because there are usually other options.
gardner has two things going against him,he has too beat out melky & put up good enough numbers.
i just do not see the yankees being happy with a cf that is going to hit a 3 or 4 hr’s & 60 rbi’s if he is lucky.
the yankees are going to have to make a big decision if both melky & gardner stink because no way swish rides the bench.i see damon in cf with nady & swish in th of & damon being replaced early enough to keep him fresh or the yankees trading for a cf.
Why would you platoon Melky and Gardner? Melky is a switch hitter that is (un)equally effective from both sides of the plate. You’d be denying both of them playing time and stunting their growth.
Gardner will run away with this contest. Melky has too advantages. He’s a switch hitter and he’s got a cannon. Gardner is faster, a better baserunner, a better fielder, will hit for a higher average.
The real important factor though? Melky gives up when he gets into a slump. Melky’s head isn’t there. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t speak english, maybe not, but he’s shown that he isn’t going to grind out a slump.
Gardner? How many hits did he get in his first 20 at bats? The kid started turning his offense around towards the end of last year. The guy knows his defense is good enough to carry him through a slump. Plus he knows he’s a walking double if he gets on base. If the kid learns to swing bunt with his speed, his average will shoot up 30 points.
Bret is a potential lead off guy. (He will be leading off when Damon goes down around, oh, June 17th) Melky is an 8 or 9 hitter on most lineups.
Lets be honest. Gardner is much faster than Melky. When we’re talking about a defensive center fielder that makes a world of difference.
Gardner was really coming on at the end of last season. I think that he is going to get the job unless Melky has gone through a major transformation.
I would like to see Melky play well enough that it is a tough call for the Yankees, then I would like to see Melky traded for a young infielder. With Jackson waiting in the wings, I would like to see Melky go to a team, perhaps in the National League, where he could help long term.
One of reasons is Brett Gardner is handsomer than Melky Cabrera.
Platoon unless one truly outperforms the other. It forces both to stay on there toes and work hard to “win” the job.
…And the number one attribute for a center fielder is range. A good arm is not as important in CF. Brett has a large advantage over Melky in the more important range category.
Brett Gardner hands down. I’m not implying anything here but I can honestly say that CHONE projections and minor league stats mean very little. As does short time spent in the majors.
Pete said it all when he described Brett as “gritty, gutty.”
As I read in Torre’s book last night (lol) Jeter had 29 errors and 2 HR’s in the minors before they gave him a shot. He didn’t have an especially good spring training, but came with fire right out the gate at the start of the season.
Melky showed me enough at the plate last year to regurgitate vomit for years to come. Gardner didn’t hit particularly well either but he ended well. Even when Gardner wasn’t hitting he was still a menace on the basepads when he did happen to get on. Once he realizes that he is getting a heavy dose of fastballs he will be fine. If Gardner gets on base once every 4 games he is more valuable than Melky.
In close games, how valuable is Gardner? Single in the 9 spot, stolen base to 2nd easily, then Damon and Jeter, our singles guys coming through as always.
garden, he is such a spark plug. he has to do is get on base, and he’ll steel second and then just get a single and he scrores. he can cover the outfield with his speed, just has to work on the bunting and hitting, 2 things that melky blew his chance with last year.
I believe that Girardi should try to get Swisher as many at bats as possible. I would do that by putting him in right one day, left the next, center the next, then 1B, then DH. That way, when he is in LF, you could either DH Damon or give him the day off or put him in CF. Also, Nady, Matsui, Texeira could DH when Swisher is in the field. That way, everyone stays fresh and Swisher is in the lineup at least 5 days a week. When Damon or Swisher are not in CF, I say let’s see whether Melky or Gardner win the job in Spring Training and whoever doesn’t becomes a reserve.
People may not like to hear this but Swisher may start games and get 3-4 AB before being pull in the 8th/9th for a defensive replacement…I can see him starting games in CF when Wang starts cause he is a ground ball pitcher..his bat is, I think to important to sit on the bench
Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?
Or I could have just said: “Single up the middle against papelbon to win the game”
I vote for Gardner because we need the speed in an otherwise slow lineup. Damon can still swipe bags but we need someone with 40 steal potential.
“Gardner will run away with this contest. Melky has too advantages. He’s a switch hitter and he’s got a cannon. Gardner is faster, a better baserunner, a better fielder, will hit for a higher average.”
Bull. Bull. Bull.
Gardner will hit for a far lower average and in my opinion is not as good of a fielder as Melky. His average was dismal last year and Melky’s, while not good, was still better, but barely serviceable. Melky gets a good jump on about every ball – given that he occasionally makes mistakes (as does Gardner).
.228 average? When was that higher than .240? I consider myself fairly skilled in mathematics and I’m pretty certain that .240 > .228.
Maybe I’m just crazy, but this one is obvious. Melky has proven himself in the majors before – Gardner has only shown that he can’t make it here. He should get a chance to prove otherwise, and he will get that chance, but Melky will be there to outperform him.
It’s a good problem to have…
Two guys who want to win CF. If Brett wins, i think Melky gets traded, but if Melky wins, i think they both stay on the team.
Rich-
I don’t see how his language plays a part. People who speak English don’t have better heads on their shoulders. Boo’s are boo’s in any language.
If Gardner was smart, he’d work on his pitch selection, patience, and keeping the ball on the ground.
Make Melky’s shortfalls your strong points. Speed, OBP, average, baserunning, etc.
Gardner is more useful and valuable hitting .260, than Melky hitting .280
I picked Gardner for two simpole reasons: He’s as fast as lighting and he’s a gamer. The gamer part, in my mind, is whats puts him ahead of Melky.
SPEED KILLS, when are people going to get that? We have 2 guys who both in their own right are good defensive center fielders. Melky’s arm and Gardner’s speed. It’s a wash, we shouldn’t try to argue who is a good CFer out of 2 good CFers.
What we need to do is look at their offensive contribution. Melky has more power, Gardner more speed. From the 9 hole, do you want a guy who creates runs or guy a guy that hits an occasional homerun but looks like a flailing bafoon?
The only way I see Melky winning this is if he shows better plate discipline. I don’t see that happening. So Gardner wins it in my opinion and I’m rooting for him to win it.
This, via MLBTR regarding Braves options for the OF:
Will they step up talks with the Yankees in order to land Nick Swisher? How about Jim Edmonds? The guy hit .256/.369/.568 with 19 home runs and 49 RBI in just 250 at-bats for the Cubs last season, and he still brings a decent glove. Plus, he’d be cheap.
______________________________________________________
I’m all for letting the kids compete, but if neither shows true promise, Edmonds should def. be someone to look at.
Gardner is a potential weapon that the Yanks haven’t had in years. His speed is important to this team. Whichever player wins the job, he will be batting 9th. I would prefer to see Gardner as a secondary leadoff man in that spot. Also, going forward to 2010, the Yanks will likely need to replace Damon as the leadoff hitter, and having Gardner play this year will give them a heads up on whether he can fill that role next year. This, of course, depends on Gardner improving and an OBP @.350-.365, at least. If he can’t do that, his value is negligible.
I agree that it’s Melky’s job to lose. Still, I’d like to see Gardner beat him out for the job. His speed is a valuable asset that I’ve seen in Scranton and can only imagine what it will do for the team at the Major League level.
If Brett can hit .275 with an OBP of .350 (his minor league career predicts at least that) he could be an all-star because he’s going to give you Gold-Glove caliber defense, steal 50+ bases and score 120+ runs in the Yankee offense as a lead off hitter. Of course he won’t hit lead-off, not initially anyway. But if gives you that, who the heck cares if he hits 2 HR’s for the year?
You need table setters and defense to win consistently. Gardner, if he improves, to anything close to his minor league numbers gives you that. Melky does not.
Also talking about the outfield, i still believe it would be smart to start Swish over Nady, or at least give both a chance.
I’ll give a slight nod to Melky; I think he’s got more potential. But now is the time to turn potentiality into reality.
Diony
Gardner hasn’t shown he can hit .230 yet, so let’s not assume that he can hit .260. And even then, how is he more valuable than Melky? He won’t drive in the runs that Melky does or hit the homeruns that Melky does. He’ll have to overcome that with run scoring ability and try to create more wins than Melky does (or lose less games).
I don’t think there’s any way that the older Gardner beats out the younger Melky. There’s a reason that Gardner’s 25 and just making it into the majors. Melky’s 24 and has been here for a few years – and put up decent numbers for two of them.
My order of preference is:
Damon (with Nady and Swisher in the corners)
Gardner
Melky
And being that I have Melky on my fantasy team it hurts to say that. I get the feeling Gardner is going to impress, the kid can flat out hit and fly. He’ll make a perfect number 9 hitter.
Maybe A-rod’s cousin can play center field?
If Brett can hit .275 with an OBP of .350 (his minor league career predicts at least that) he could be an all-star because he’s going to give you Gold-Glove caliber defense, steal 50+ bases and score 120+ runs in the Yankee offense as a lead off hitter. Of course he won’t hit lead-off, not initially anyway. But if gives you that, who the heck cares if he hits 2 HR’s for the year?
____
Yeah and if Ian Kennedy gave us close to his monor league numbers we may have not needed to spend 240 M for starters this offseason.
if gardner can outperform melky & get on base while playing a good defense he has a shot,if he has a 300 obp he is gone.
it will come down too who can get on base.two things melky has that gardner does not is power & he is younger.
there is no way to determine who will win the cf job until someone takes it.
JOJO – you are 200% correct.
Flat out hit? He hit .220 last season…..
Haven’t seen him ‘flat out hit’ yet. Although watching him hit that ball back at papelbon last year was pretty nice.
I like Melky starting as our CF, I think he’s can do much better than last season. And my most inportant reason for starting Melky, is that I like Gardner’s speed of the bench for late in games.
I think the fact that Melky is out of options means that unless a trade goes down, both will be on the 25-man roster come Opening Day. It seems like Gardner is, to borrow from Cashman, too much of an asset for the big league club to send to AAA because of his speed and glove and the way he plays the game. Coming off the bench is a good role for him because he’s the go-to late game pinch runner, and he’s past the point of having limited playing time inhibit his development.
That said, if they both have an equally healthy and productive Spring Training, I think Melky gets the every-day gig to start the season, with an extremely short leash. If he has a 2-week spell resembling 2008′s stint as an automatic out machine, I think they try Gardner full-time.
From an offensive standpoint the best outfield would be Nady-Damon-Swisher, but I really doubt that is the route the team will go. Damon’s legs would be worn down by July, and the gaps would be full of opposing teams’ doubles.
Gardner
ALB3,
I know it’s perhaps been overstated that Gardner starts to excell after 50 or so at bats at each level, but it’s a fact. We’ve seen him do it at AA and at AAA last year.
Gardner is going to give Cabrera a run for his money. In the end, whoever wins the job, will have earned it. I’m not saying I don’t like Melky, I simply have seen Gardner’s work ethic and would honestly like to see what he does with a full time job in the Bronx.
I also believe that even if Gardner had a lower batting average than Melkey, he’d have a higher On Base Percentage, which would equal him scoring more runs than Cabrera.
But, really, in my mind it’s virtually a tie among Brett, Melky and Gardner.
———————————-
huh? Brett and Gardner are the same person.
Here is Gardner’s average as he moved up in the minors:
A ball 2005 = .284
A ball 2006 = increase to .323
Increase = .039 average
AA ball 2006 = .272
AA ball 2007 = increase to .300
Increase = .028 average
AAA ball 2007 = .260
AAA ball 2008 = increase to .296
Increase = .036 average
Early MLB debut = low .200
Late MLB debut = increase to about .275-.280
Increase = about .030 average
Every year Gardner adjusted and played better at the higher level. 4 years in a row.
Damon can’t play center full time anymore. He’s not a consideration.
I don’t understand why people think Brett is an everyday MLB player. He sucks. Pretty sure in his time in the bigs last year he hit about .230. I think everyone can agree his speed is his best asset, but that would be best to keep on the bench for late inning situations, ie bunting or pinch running. Melky will run away with this.
“He won’t drive in the runs that Melky does or hit the homeruns that Melky does.”
Melky averages 8 HR per year. I don’t think losing 1 HR every 20 games is a tragedy. He may have have more RBIs, but Gardner should score at least that many more runs than Melky. Having Gardner as a threat on the bases can also be an asset to the guys hitting behind him.
Oh, speaking of bunting. Melky can’t do that.
“Gardner sucks”
I don’t know that’s a fair assessment. As you see in the numbers posted by Russell, he doesn’t suck.
If you were watching the same player i was watching, you saw him really start to get comfortable by the end of last season.
It was mentioned earlier as well, but that “Gamer” mentality is very important in a tough New York atmosphere and I guarantee you Gardner has that.
He might not have Ellsbury’s potential but Ellsbury hit .280 .336 .394 last season. Think a little less stats than Ellsbury but more speed.
Fangraphs did an interesting piece on this two days ago, check it out at http://www.fangraphs.com/fanta.....ees-cf-job
Oh and Ian Kennedy will be a good major league pitcher…just maybe not for the Yankees.
Joe likes Brett. He constantly spoke how he likes pesky guys. So why would anyone think that Melky has the upper hand and it is his to lose. I think it is Bretts to lose.
I prefer Gardner for his speed. Melky has no speed and no power and unless he walks a ton he has no real use other then a 4th OFer. Gardner can be Ellsbury like. That said, platoon then – Gardner sits vs LHP. If by June neither of them is hitting a thing then swing Damon over there until someone can be found at the trade deadline. As long as 1-8 produces in the lineup as we expect them to, the CF hitting 9th just needs to play great defense. Remember when Jeter got the SS job in ’96 batting 9th and everyone said just catch the ball and hit .250? CF is like that this year. Maybe we will get lucky and one of them will break out.
“.228 average? When was that higher than .240? I consider myself fairly skilled in mathematics and I’m pretty certain that .240 > .228.”
Melky had significantly more at bats than Gradner. In fact Melky had three times as many at bats as BG. Sure Melky hit .249 and Bret .228. Also, that was Melky’s 4th Major League Season. I’ll take the rookie at .228 who hitting improved at the end of last season over a career .268 hitter any day.
“Maybe I’m just crazy, but this one is obvious. Melky has proven himself in the majors before – Gardner has only shown that he can’t make it here. He should get a chance to prove otherwise, and he will get that chance, but Melky will be there to outperform him.”
What has Melky proven? Sure he took CF away from a gimpy Damon in 2007. And he did well for the Yankees as a defensive player in 2006. But he also tanked last year. He’s a constant rally killer.
Also, just to further prove my point about his speed. Melkys never stolen more than 13 bases in a season. Gardner had that many in 2 months with a horrible OBP.
AND,
Can we please stop with the Swisher in CF thing… Sure it will happen a handful of times this year but it’s not an option. Damon will play Center long before Swish. He’s an emergency replacement in Centerfield and 4th on the depth charts.
I’d rather have Melky.
Melky had a bad offensive year last season, but he’s still young and he should get better at the plate. He’s a dynamite defensive centerfielder ,he’s one of the very few Yanks who can bunt, and he can occasionally steal a base.
Gardner is very good defensively and he’s a great late-inning base-stealing threat. The problem is he’s a disaster at the plate. It’s unbelievable that he got all the way to the Majors without learning how to use his legs when hitting. Are there any coaches in the Yankees’ minors?
The fact that people would consider Swisher in CF on a full time basis scares me.
I would prefer to see Gardner there. Melky was so awful last year and Gardner was definitely a spark plug that saved the team in several close games.
I think Gardner is gonna win.
Where is brettisgod and melkyisgod when you need them?
I’d like to see Gardner get a shot. He was picking up his game at the end of the season…I think he was .340 in the last 10 games….and I like his speed in the lineup too. He’s been characterized as a slow starter at each level and his slow start with a major improvement at the end of the season seemed to confirm that. I like his hustle and work ethic.
Melky was so awful last year and Gardner was definitely a spark plug that saved the team in several close games.
HUH???
Did i miss something last year?
I remember one game that Brett won on a single against the Sox. I also remember us beating Cleveland 1-0 on a Melky homerun. I do not recall us being saved by Brett Gardner and his .220 average and average fielding.
i agree that it is melky’s to loose at this point but i really think gardner is going to do something…there is no proof in the numbers that this is going to happen but there is something about the way he plays. i honestly hope this is a tough choice to be made because they are both producing…but honestly if the other guys in this line up just live up to their averages then neither of these guys offensive production should matter.
Mark’s in Tampa’s right.
Whoever wins the CF job (of these two) is going to be hitting ninth. In this scenario, it makes a lot more sense to have Gardner there, for reasons already stated by others here.
If we needed a middle of the line-up guy (which neither of these guys are) we’d have to trade for one. But we have those types of hitters already.
The solid defense and just plain speed and distraction that Gardner can cause to opposing defenses is worth giving him a shot – on this particular team as it is.
I go with Gardner because speed is a great weapon to have, see the rays. The Yanks need to manufacture more runs with Gardner that can happen. We need a pesky hitter in the lineup.
The thing about Melky is as he gets older he is declining. When he first started out I was thinking wow – guy in his early 20′s , switch hitter, and he takes walks! The power will come. Reminded me of a young Bernie Williams. Now after 3 years he has gone backwards.
Gardner’s speed is a difference maker. If he can produce an OBP of .320 to .330 he will be a weapon. He also can bunt, hit and run, etc. He needs to be on the team even if he is a late defense replacement and/or pinch runner.
Melky right now produces nothing except having a “great arm”. If the reports from winter ball are true and Melky has gotten his patient eye back then he can help but he needs to prove that in ST. Right now I am thinking Gardner’s job to lose. Don’t fogot that last year it was an open competition as well and Gardner almost beat Melky out. Melky earned the job and did well in April then fell off the map.
i say have Melky be the regular CF. Obviously if it doesn’t work out they’ve got plenty of options. For now, I’d rather see Gardner be the backup CF, making starts here and there but primarily being a pinch-running specialist off the bench.
Who do I want? I want Melky to become solid enough an MLB hitter that we can use his cannon arm out there in CF. That’s what would make us the strongest team this year.
What do I think will happen? Melky stays on as 4th outfielder. Gardner’s SOL. Damon and Swisher rotate the CF spots, with Melky spelling them both sometimes.
Gardner is a better CF than Cabrera, as he has more range, despite not having as strong of an arm. Damon, Gardner, and Swisher would make for an above average defensive OF, which would help make up for the below average defensive IF, especially up the middle. Additionally Gardner’s career minor league OBP, .389, is 42 points higher than Cabrera’s. While you can expect it to drop in the major’s, even if he hits .260 his OBP would most likely be better than league average. Coupled with his exceptional speed and good success ratio at stealing bases he is a much better offensive player than Cabrera.
Gardner because he plays ball the right way (the Jeter way). Goes hard every time, will get down a bunt, will wave to the fans AFTER the game.
The Yankees should not NEED their 9 hitter to drive in runs/hit HRs.
Send a message to Melky and give Gardner the job. If Melky goes down and starts hustling, then reconsider during the season is Gardner is struggling.
CF Tools:
Range – Gardner (critical with Matsui or Damon in left, Nady in right)
Arm – Melky (not as critical as this brings you only a few outs/saves a few bases per month)
Bat – Melky (but by how much?)
OBP – Probably Melky
Speed – Gardner
We need to stick Melky out there and give him a real chance. If that is not the case we need to revisit talks with the Brewers and get Cameron.
If Posada is healthy and can play in 110-120 games, we can carry either Gardner or Melky in the line-up. If Gardner can OBP > .333, I’d go with him due to his speed. However, if Posada is out for an extended amount of time and Molina has to catch, we need to make a move and upgrade the bat there. Mike Cameron would fit perfectly.
I believe in Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner. I also believe in Santa Claus, the Sasquatch and the Power of Greyskull. Given that this is a veteran team that has committed an awful lot to free agent aquisitions, I think the Yankees owe it to themselves (if not their fans) to squeeze every last bit of production from every position. Of course we expect the offense to rebound, but there’s no guarantee that Jorge’s shoulder, Hideki’s knees, or A-Rod’s “loosey-goosey” understanding of ethics will allow that to happen. Allowing Melky or Gardner to absorb 500+ ABs could be a mistake akin to entrusting 2 of 5 rotation spots to the likes of Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy.
melky is 24 yrs old,gardner is 25.
whoever plays better will play cf,if they both stink the yankees will trade for a cf.
there is no way to tell now.melky seems to start well & runs out of gas very early.
i remember last year he started out on fire,i thought he would hit 30 hr.
it will play itself out.one thing that is hard to do is predict the future.
if melky tears it up in the spring & gardner does not get a hit,the decision will be made for the yankees.
Brett — and it’s not even REMOTELY close. Melky’s so busy eating himself further into oblivon with junk food — and he’s half asleep to begin with. Just watch him run the bases. He’s so busy watching the action that he doesn’t even bother to focus on running as fast he can. He’s WAY more suited to watch the action than participate in it.
If Brett’s stats in limited playing time in the outfield continue, he’s a tremendous asset defensively — and a much needed one. I would be delighted to get a bag of balls for Melky. Hell, I’d consider it to be a net positive to pay to get rid of him. (And yeah, I know he’s got value — but that’s only because there are some stupid GMs who aren’t very good judges of talent. On the other hand, with good coaching, who KNOWS? Maybe if somebody taught him to eat right and gave him some good coaching, he’d be a lot better. But all I’ve got to go on is his wretched trend on top of his pathetic base running on top of his incredibly poor attitude. (Oh yeah, I forgot. He’s useful to keep Cano and his sterling .305 on base percentage happy while he’s out to space, too….
Mikos,
I like your point about range with Matsui or Damon in LF(or Yankee Stadium’s second CF). As it’s been repeated as well, whoever wins the job is likely batting 9th.
Gardner fits the bill there as well.
I prefer the idea of a platoon with Melky and Gardner, riding teh hot hand when applicable. If I am Melky though, I am taking the majority of my swings this offseason as a right handed hitter, his weaker side, since I believe that could be his best opportunity (against lefties).
Gardner ML stats here http://minors.baseball-referen.....i?pid=5277
Notice he walks a lot and his SB success rate is over 80%. He also has had an OBP of .345+ every stop in the minors with 2008 in AAA at .414
Give him a 2 month window to see if he can adapt to ML pitching. I think he will.
the problem i see is if garder or melky is in the lineup with molina.
i think the yankees should of traded for a cf.ajax is no guarantee & might be 2 years away.
a rotation plays here, and i wish that was an option to vote. i’m fine with gardner chasing everything down 3-4 days a week. but some days, and depending on who’s pitching/matchups, i’d like to see our best offensive lineup, and that involved damon/swisher in center sometimes. i can live with that 1-2 days per week. like frank said above, i’m not sure i want gardner/melky absorbing 500+ ABs unless they really show something early.
Frank,
That’s a bit extreme. CF is 1 of 9 positions players while your example is 40% of the starting rotation. Also no matter which kid is in CF they will have no problems on the defensive side of the ball. With our lineup I would think we could absorb 500 at bats from Gardner and Melky at league average. anything more from them would be a bonus.
Up until recently I was for Melky in CF but I now feel Brett should get the nod. Defense is there for both. Melky is a full year younger, has the power advantage and has a greater skill set but he just does not do anything well enough to hold down the position. Brett has a distinct skill that separates him in this battle and it is speed. He projects out to 40 or more SBs and that will have an impact. Now let’s see what happens during spring training because that is where the position will be won.
Joe D, Mickey, Bobby , Bernie, ….Melky??Brett?? I think what the Yankees are looking for is a one year wonder then move Austin Jackson into CF next year. There really isnt a lot out there for centerfielders in a trade.Also you have to beleive that a guy like Swisher will likely be traded for propects not an established Center fielder.I think that between Melky and Brett that Melky has the edge since he has a little more “pop” in his bat. There is also a runor that he actually had a walk or two in winter ball
bru is correct. We all should be a lot more concerned with Molina in the lineup for 50 to 60 games instead of the CF question. If that is the plan and Molina hits .220 with no power then CF will be a bigger issue – in that case get Edmonds or use Damon up in CF and have Nick and Nady on the corners. We can afford one hole in the lineup but 2 holes in the AL East is damn risky.
Melky has more overall upside than Gardner on both sides of the ball.
Gardner really hasn’t proved anything yet at the major league level, while Melky had two decent seasons (especially considering how young he was, playing in New York) before slipping last year. You don’t give up on a player for one bad season, that’s just dumb (and you might as well give up on Cano, Swisher, Hughes, Kennedy, etc. if you’re going to use that “logic”).
Gardner has shown the ability to get on base (at least in the minors) and has speed. I don’t think he has any power so he’s basically going to have to be a singles hitter/occasional gap hitter to stick in the majors. His range in center is good, but his arm doesn’t look that much stronger than Damon’s. That’s going to be a huge problem if he and Damon are playing next to each other every day, as the outfield is going to be giving up too many extra bases and extra runs to the opposition.
Melky is by far the best defensive outfielder on the roster, and if he regain his patience at the plate he has more power and can do more things than Gardner (except run).
Cashman wants the Yankees to be a “pitching first” organization, but that also means you need to have defense to support the pitching. With the defense both of these guys provide the lineup is deep enough to carry either one batting ninth, especially when they will have a pinch-hitter on the bench every day from the group of Damon, Matsui, Nady, Swisher. If the #9 spot comes up in an important situation, PH for whoever started, and then bring in the other guy as his defensive replacement. It’s not that hard to do and it keeps everybody in the game.
Either way I think both of these players will be on the opening day roster and get playing time. Damon’s days in CF are long over and Swisher really doesn’t belong there either.
Overall this is a good thing, as it seems like the Yankees are going to back to spreading the at-bats around and actually having a useful bench. Both of these concepts have been abandoned since 2001/2002 and it has cost the Yankees all decade, especially in the post-season.
I would pick Gardner because he adds a different aspect to the Yankees power lineup, I’ve read a great deal of comments on here saying they will be platooned. That will not happen because if it did, the Yankees would be carrying Damon, Gardner, Nady, Swisher, Matsui, and Melky, that’s 6 players with outfield capabilities, I know Matsui isn’t going to play the outfield, but he can if they need him to. If Girardi gets to pick, he will pick Gardner.
Gardner will start, and if he slips….Melky will get a chance. If both are slumping, Damon will spell them occasionally and Swish will move to LF.
But I do believe Gardner will get first crack at it.
i don’t think gardner will hit. i could be wrong. he just looks so bad to my eyes.
that said, i think he’s a useful 4th or fifth outfielder because of his defense and ability to steal bases as a late inning pinch runner .
i think his main contribution is that he provides competition to melky to get him going. if melky doesn’t get going, i think the yankees need to go outside the organization to get a center fielder.
centerfield has become the new first base. hopefully cashman can solve the position a little quicker than he did at first base.
One more thing, it’s not like this needs to be decided today anyway.
There really aren’t any good CF’s available right now anyway. Mike Cameron can hit but he’s getting old and the Yankees need some defense in the outfield. Jim Edmonds? That’s just a bad idea. The Yankees aren’t going to take on a salary like Juan Pierre, Gary Matthews, or Aaron Rowand, and all of those guys are in their 30′s and not worth it. The Yankees need to have some youth on the field.
If worse comes to worse, they can make a deal at the end of spring training when teams are trying to set their rosters. If they feel good about opening with some combination of Gardner & Melky they should do that, and if things don’t work in April & May Cashman can look at the market then and try to swing a trade.
There are plenty of contingencies, but it’s not like the #9 hitter is going to make or break this team. It’s the guys up top and in the middle of the lineup that are going to determine the Yankees fate, just like they did in 2008.
Spring training is going to be the time where we find out if Melky has improved his game. If he has and there seems to be some potential that he can put up decent numbers, he will start. If not and Brett wins the job, it is likely that Melky will be traded for a guy like Mike Cameron and Gardner will be on the bench anyway.
I see it as highly unlikely that Gardner starts in any situation. If Melky wins, he’s starting. If Gardner wins, I think Gardner is still on the bench, anyway.
Prediction: Lack of worthy back-up at second short or third will prove MUCH bigger issue than CF.
Seems to me there is no decision to make here. Baring injury, they will both break camp with the team. Basically its a Melky heavy a platoon, but Giradi will play which ever is hot or matches up better, mostly keeping Gardener for off the bench speed.
Neither of them project to be above average in any case, and its just a hold over until either September or next season until Austin Jackson is ready.
I would like to see what Melky could do this season, if he flunks the test I would start looking elsewhere to fill the void.
Johnny Damon should be the primary centerfielder with Naddy in left and Swisher in right. Melking can be the forth outfielder giving all three plenty of rest keeping all three hungrey and resting Johnny’s legs
A Melky/Gardner platoon makes no sense because Melky cannot hit righthanded. I say go with the hottest player out of ST and use the Casey Stengal method. Let the youngster play against righhended pitching and play Damon in CF vs. lefties. Damon is not a bad CF, he just wears down too easily there. Nady is a true lefty destroyer, so his bat in the lineup makes up for weakening the defense.
If you want to compare apples to apples, lets look ar their mIlb history:
Brett Gardner: .290 .389 .385 .774 381 games, 1448 AB
Melky Cabrera: .296 .349 .420 .769 372 games, 1489 AB
Close to a toss-up. Melk-dud with more power, Brett with OBP. Edge to Gardner.
On defense, for a CFer, probably the 2 most important factors are jump/speed of first step and routes to balls.
From what I’ve heard/read, Brett is quite a bit better in both departments… so even with Mekly’s better arm, considering Bretts better speed, Brett should be a noticeably better defensive CF.
While I believe Melky MAY have better raw offensive skills, Brett seems to have a much better head. Better judgement and disipline. As Yogi says: “90% of the game is mental. The other half is physical”.
I like Melky, but short of a lobotomy or brain transplant, he will never reach his potential. No matter how talented you are, you HAVE to be baseball smart/play smart, to make the best of your abilities.
Just looking at the minor-league numbers, the edge goes to Brett… for much better OBP and SBs. Add to that noticeably better D, and Brett appears to be the better player, and because of his ‘head’, have a greater upside.
The bottom line is both will have an opportunity to play and show their stuff. By the ASB, one will be our CFer (for a while) and one will be trade bait. If the are both duds, Cashman will get someone mid-season… and cheaply.
I give Brett the edge to be the winner.
I agree it’s Gardner. I think his overall offense is on a par with Melky, maybe better. But his defense is going to be much more valuable than what Melky appears capable of delivering, especially in CF.
Brett Gardner is a horrifying bad baseball player. The last time you’d have been happy to see a Yankee CF with 3 HR was 1925, when Earle Combs was out there. Then again, Combs had 203 H in 593 AB. It might take Gardner 1,000 PA to get to 200 H. He can’t hit a major league fastball. And he can’t hit the ball on the ground.
with the caveat, of course, that all things are relative. I hit .240 my senior year of HS. By that metric, Brett Gardner was like Pete Rose*10 compared to me.
With a bad year in 2008, Melky’s OBP was still 18 points higher. And career-wise 46 points higher. Swisher is even better and should be used when Wang is pitching (who needs an outfielder?)
“Prediction: Lack of worthy back-up at second short or third will prove MUCH bigger issue than CF.”
yes, this makes sense.
the possibility of needing a slightly better backup player will outweigh the certainty of starting a sub-par hitter in CF.
i love when people try to sound intelligent by making contrarian statements.
You are all forgetting one huge point though. As much as I personally would like to either see a re-energized Melky out there and if not then go with the gritty, speedy Gardner… I believe Melky is out of options. If that is the case (can anyone confirm) we would lose him if he was put on waivers. YOu can BET ON THAT! I personally like the idea of young speed at top of lineup (or bottom bringing it back to top). That would mean Gardner. Plus, Gardner will be in camp the entire time – plenty of time to prove himself. What is Melky doing? Likely riding the bench for the Dominican WBC team. Smart move. If I were Melky – I’d be in camp not WBC. WBC is great – but his job is on line.
“centerfield has become the new first base. hopefully cashman can solve the position a little quicker than he did at first base.”
it’s not like our top positional prospect is a CFer or anything.
“What is Melky doing? Likely riding the bench for the Dominican WBC team. Smart move. If I were Melky – I’d be in camp not WBC. WBC is great – but his job is on line.”
Melky is in camp. he’s not playing in the WBC.
don’t mind me, i’m just stating “facts”.
“If you want to compare apples to apples, lets look ar their mIlb history:”
this is not apples to apples given their respective ages at the various levels of the minor leagues.
Melky compiled those numbers at 3 years younger than Gardner at each stop.
context.
it’s important.
And Melky is a year younger!
I think Melky has one more option year. It is a big difference maker if he does not.
Gardner, speed and upside w/ it, he’s always improved in every league he’s gotten use to.
“I think Melky has one more option year. It is a big difference maker if he does not.”
unfortunately, he does not.
I admit it’s close between the two but after Melky blowing his opportunity to be the everyday guy last year, I think I prefer Gardner. Here are two things to consider:
1) Who hits leadoff in 2010 when Damon is gone? I think everyone agrees that Gardner is and will always be a better leadoff hitter than the Melk Man.
2) Robinson Cano is more valuable than both of these guys and if having Melky around distracts Cano I say trade him for infield prospects.
Trade for Mark Cameron
NO MIKE CAMERON.
You dont get younger by forgoing two players in their 20s for a $10M 36 year old player.
I’d go with Brett Gardner. Defense is roughly equal between the 2, but Gardner’s speed on the bases can be a real difference maker.
john_halfz – I don’t know about HS, but for college numbers:
Brett Gardner College .382 .456 .508 .964 OPS 179 725 ABs
john_halfz and Jay Hirsch: Might I ask which statistics you base your opinions on? Brett has all of 150 MLB ABs… less then 1/4 of 1 year of full play. Do you guys understand the concept of “SMALL SAMPLE SIZE”?
Basically, small sample size (sss) renders valid analysis impossible. You just need it to get bigger before you can make any objective opinions. (You understand objective?).
Do I really need to produce a list of good ballplayers who stank in their first 150 ABs?
However, if you insist on it, here’s some sss:
In Aug. and Sept, Bretts OPS was .740… better then Melk’s career numbers.
In August alone, Brett posted a .900 OPS.
In the Minors, the BOTH had about 1500 ABs (about 2.5-3 full seasons worth). They both played oh the same team/league, and faced similar competition. Don’t you think these numbers are more valid for comparison?
And lastly, did you know in Melky’s first year as a Yankee, he had a .422 OPS? FOUR HUNDRED TWENTY TWO!!!!!!!!!! OBVIOUSLY he can’t hit a MLB fastball. 0.422 OPS. 0.422 OPS.
Yeah, it was in only 19 ABs (vsss), but hey!!!!!!!!!
The presence of AJax makes it imperative that the Yankees are patient and flexible with CF for 2009. I see no reason not to keep all of the guys and mix and match based on the ballpark, opponent’s starting pitcher and Yankees starting pitcher.
There are 648 starts abailable between the three OF positions and DH. I say keep all six with Melky and Gardner starting about 70 games each, Swisher, Nady and Matsui 120-125 and Damon around 140. It will keep legs fresh and gives the Yanks two excellent guys on the bench every day.
Swisher is the emergency 1B and Berroa will give them excellent defense backing up the other positions. Add Molina and you have a much better bench than last year.
I doubt anyone will start more than 100 games in CF.
The leadoff hitter for 2010 will likely be LF/DH Johnny Damon
Brett Gardner. Speed.
Let me enlighten some of you.
The defense is far from “equal” between Gardner and Melky. Melky has a very good arm for a CFer, but Gardner is a highlight reel CFer. He’ll live on Sportscenter. He covers more ground in CF than virtually anyone else playing the game.. he will get to balls….easily..that Melky will be running down to the fence, trying to hold the guy to a double. Gardner gets great jumps on the ball, has drastically improved on his routes, and has world class, game changing speed. He’s a gold glove guarantee in CF, and he will save runs in bunches for this team.
Offensively, he had a cup of coffee at the end of the season last year with the Yankees, and struggled a little. But he hit .296 at AAA SWB, scored a zillion runs, stole a zillion bases, and basically electrified the International League. And with the Yankees, despite his struggles, he still stole 13 bases in 14 tries in handful of games, for a 50+ stolen base total over a full season.
I think he’ll hit a solid .275, draw a lot of walks, steal 75+ bases, wreak total havoc on the bases, and score 140 runs in that lineup. Easily.
The man beats out any ground ball to the left side of the infield that bounces more than twice. Do you realize what kind of weapon that is?
Melky will make a very nice 4th OFer.
Let me enlighten some of you.
The defense is far from “equal” between Gardner and Melky. Melky has a very good arm for a CFer, but Gardner is a highlight reel CFer. He’ll live on Sportscenter. He covers more ground in CF than virtually anyone else playing the game.. he will get to balls….easily..that Melky will be running down to the fence, trying to hold the guy to a double. Gardner gets great jumps on the ball, has drastically improved on his routes, and has world class, game changing speed. He’s a gold glove guarantee in CF, and he will save runs in bunches for this team.
Offensively, he had a cup of coffee at the end of the season last year with the Yankees, and struggled a little. But he hit .296 at AAA SWB, scored a zillion runs, stole a zillion bases, and basically electrified the International League. And with the Yankees, despite his struggles, he still stole 13 bases in 14 tries in handful of games, for a 50+ stolen base total over a full season.
I think he’ll hit a solid .275, draw a lot of walks, steal 75+ bases, wreak total havoc on the bases, and score 140 runs in that lineup. Easily.
The man beats out any ground ball to the left side of the infield that bounces more than twice. Do you realize what kind of weapon that is?
Melky will make a very nice 4th OFer.
I vote Manny! What’s another couple million…
Melky has greater power and a better arm. Gardner will get on base more, is a better baserunner and has better range. If both perform according to their PECOTA projections, Gardner’s skill set will be more valuable. However, I would give Melky every possible chance (i.e. through May?) to win the job because (a) he has shown reasonable plate discipline in the past, whereas Gardner will never develop power and (b) Gardner, with his baserunning ability, has much greater bench value (e.g. he could pinch run for Swisher or Nady and then push Melky into right, or he could pinch run for the catcher).
make a trade otherwise it will be back and fourth with these two all year
make a trade or it will be back and fourth with these two all year
the Yankees don’t have a answer for their CF job on their roster
Melky. The Yankees need to find out which is the real Melky. If his problems are due to the fact that they brought him up too early out of desperation, why would they take that chance again with Brett. Melky’s got that gun of an arm. If he can keep his head in the game, he’s a real asset. If he can’t keep in the game, than move him out.
Melky. I think Melky will do very well if he stays focused and doesn’t have off-field distractions. If he works hard and focuses like ’06 and ’07, Melky will have the job. If not, Brett will have the centerfield position.
NO NO NO to Brett Gardner. I don’t care if he’s a better fielder than Melky. Melky’s got seniority (despite being younger than Gardner). Plus Melky’s the better hitter. He and Igawa both deserve second chances.
Yes, Gardner’s fast. But guess what? HE DOESN’T GET ON BASE. Who cares how quickly he gets back to the dugout after yet another strikeout.