A-Rod’s pal further muddies the water
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 20, 2009 
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The Daily News did a big story today on some shady trainer A-Rod knows.
It’s similar to a story ESPN.com did two two years ago.
Some big leaguers hang around with unsavory people. A-Rod has surrounded himself with assorted moochers and sycophants for a while now. But unless you can prove he took PEDs either before 2001 or after 2003, not much has changed.
If he did use at other times, he should be suspended by the commissioner and/or the Yankees for being such a lying disgrace. It’s hard to believe he would be stupid enough to lie about that twice knowing everybody would be checking.
Then again …
Anyway, so much for the all-natural blog. But I’ll post plenty of baseball items all day. If any steroids discussion can be limited to this entry, that would be appreciated.
I think we can limit our steroid discussion to this entry, but the real question is: Can you?
If Bobby Alejo can make it back to being on a major league payroll, anything is possible.
Pete is right. Unless there is proof of use in the time periods that Arod said he wasn’t using, its much ado about nothing.
If he did, he should be suspended by the commissioner and/or the Yankees for being such a lying disgrace
————
Is that something he can even be suspended for? I thought baseball punishments weren’t as arbitrary as what Commish Goodell is able to do. I mean, jeez, did you go after Joba this hard? He could have killed someone, but since you like him, you let him off easy. Let’s not confuse steroid use with committing a capital crime.
This is why players lie and deny these kinds of allegations. When Clemens, Bonds, et al were “caught”, everybody said come clean and things will go easier. Well, Arod did; the story should be that he admitted to using PEDs, not whether he did it 30 times or 36 times, or whatever will come out next. He is being torn apart more than anybody but Bonds.
It is similar to Pete Rose. The media said for years, “if you just admit it, you’ll be forgiven, and probably eventually get back into the game.” He finally admits it, and everybody says “too late.” Once these freaks have you in their crosshairs, there is nothing you can do that isn’t wrong or suspicious.
I prefer to use performance enhancers to improve my comment output. I bring shame to the blog.
this is interesting.
n addition to A-Rod, Presinal has worked with some of the game’s biggest stars: Juan Gonzalez, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Vladimir Guerrero, Bartolo Colon, Miguel Tejada, Adrian Beltre, Moises Alou, Jose Guillen, Ervin Santana, Ruben Sierra, Francisco Cordero, Jose Mesa and Juan Guzman, among others.
Pete, your blog is not all natural. I’ve seen some bigger than usual html tags on your site and I’m reporting you to the steroid blog police.
this guy worked with both A-Rod and David Ortiz. and Pedro.
so, that raises a very sticky question: is he an actual trainer, or is he a steroid supplier??
time to choose, ESPN.
if he’s a trainer, A-Rod did nothing wrong. if he’s a steroid supplier, it implicates Ortiz.
hmmmm……ESPN is paralyzed by their compulsion to further discredit A-Rod and the potential to tarnish the two Red Sox titles.
should be fun to watch.
duh- Good point! We’ll see how “fair and balanced” espn is. lets see if they tell everyone that Big Papi used this “trainer” as well. HmMMmm
Its hard to limit the steroid discussions on this blog since every year there are Yankees who get busted for cheating.
Maybe this should be a steroid blog which occasionally reports Yankee stories?
Unless Alex tested positive for PEDs since 2003, then hanging out with Presinal is a non-story. Otherwise, you would have to assume that every player Presinal ever worked out with (including all of the players named in the article)used PEDs.
Even if you can prove it, good luck trying to suspend Arod for steriod use before 2001.
NY Yank Fan hit the nail on the head. Pete, do we need to do an intervention with you for this addiction? Yes report it, but two to three paragraphs of negative speculation off of one sentence of fact reporting. You’re in denial! Just say no.
That trainer Presinal that was banned from ML clubhouses who was seen with A Rod all of 2007 is going to be a problem.
Traveling with A Rod? Meeting in hotel rooms? Never being seen in public together?
Then all of a sudden he’s not around in 2008?
Look I want to believe Alex as much as anyone else but this is starting to look really bad.
You don’t think A Rod wanted an edge when he knew he was opting out? Why else would that guy be traveling with him? This story reeks.
Look at his 2007 numbers vs. his 2008 numbers. Eesh.
Also, in 2006 his numbers weren’t that great. That was the last WBC and the last blood test. If he puts up similar number this year after this WBC it’ll only make A Rod’s story less believable.
And the media will keep digging and digging and digging. What a mess. I think he’s toast.
yawn yawn yawn…
WHO CARES?
i said id give him the benefit of the doubt as long as his story checed-out and he wasnt proven to be lying to me.
im still hanging on but its looking more and more like another snow-job.
i dont really care about the details. yeah, it was news that ARod tested positive, but i couldnt care less about the rest of these details.”
not that it matters, but we don’t know arod is on the list. it’s just highly probable he is. bonds wasn’t on it. it’s possible that information was leaked to trick arod into admitting steroid use . not likely ,but possible.
the beauty of a list that know one sees is that it can be used to scare everyone who used whether they are on it or not . it’s like the shark in the water that you can’t see.
when the feds have the list and ask a specific player if they used or not and the player says no, that would be a perjury trap. so any player who has used and is interviewed by the feds pretty much has to confess . they might not be on the list, and if they knew that they wouldn’t confess. but with the list being only known by the feds , the player has to admit steroid use or risk jail for lying to the feds and that means jail time.
the one thing we have learned is that the feds don’t lose when they get hold of someone in these ped cases. they put unbelievable pressure on someone who doesn’t roll over. recently ,twenty irs and federal agents raided bond’s trainer’s wife’s mother for IRS violations when the trainer continued his refusal to testify.
that’s one way to get rid of a mother in law, but the point is they can bring unbelievable pressure once they know something. separate from baseball, this is pretty interesting stuff to know if you are an american citizen.
Other clients of the Domincan trainer in question include David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez,Vlad, Juan Guzman, Adrian Beltre and a host of others. Can we just move on or is this going to be beat into the ground until every team’s roster is scrutinized? I believe we know enough or more than we need to already.
It’s bad enough the Yankees have dimmed the enthusiasm of thousands of their most loyal fans with the relocation debacle. This daily flogging of the masses with steroid stories could really kill the golden goose.
I’ve looked forward to this season all winter. Now,I havent been this unenthusiastic about baseball since Jerry Kenney was our 3rd baseman.
This guy trained a ton of players.
One of the “benefits” Arod now has is that his reputation is completely trashed. Meaning, innuendo stories really can’t hurt him.
At this point, its about producing evidence. Real, hard evidence of steroid use for the periods he says he was not using.
If the media can produce that evidence, he’s toast. Plain and simple.
If the media can’t, and all the stories are just innuendo stories, its not enough.
That’s one “benefit” to no longer having a good reputation. The innuendo stories can’t hurt you.
Well Albert Pujols averaged a 330 batting average for four years and then hit 357 last year. Guess he must have been juicing last year.
Oh Roger Maris never hit more than 40 home runs except for 1961. Guess he must have been juicing too that year. Come on people.
The spike in production argument is crap. Guys have some good years and some bad years. Sometimes the good year comes after a bad year. It’s part of the game. Saying a guy’s numbers increased for one year does not mean he did steroids.
I think we should instead focus on the photographer that took those horrific pictures of the Yankees yesterday.
This seems like classic “let’s extend this story for all it’s worth” reporting from the Daily News. They can’t let A-Rod disappear from the back page yet, so you get this kind of speculative nonsense. No smoking gun, no body of evidence, no sale in terms of trying to prove A-Rod is roiding in the last few years.
Of course you can cue the hyperbole from those that are convinced that A-Rod is “done” and that this is just a sign of how things will only get worse for Alex….but it’s a bunch of nonsense. He’s not getting kicked out of George M. Steinbrenner Field any time soon, and nobody is canceling his 2009 season. Give it a rest.
Brian, you don’t think Alex did steroids?
“In addition to A-Rod, Presinal has worked with some of the game’s biggest stars: Juan Gonzalez, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Vladimir Guerrero, Bartolo Colon, Miguel Tejada, Adrian Beltre, Moises Alou, Jose Guillen, Ervin Santana, Ruben Sierra, Francisco Cordero, Jose Mesa and Juan Guzman, among others.”
Lets get that 2003 list released. Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Moises Alou?
Give me those names on roids and all Mets/Red Sox fans will be quiet.
Pete,
Am I the only one who thought you said that Joba and Bruney were pitching BP yesterday as well as CC. It seems I’m the only one interested so maybe I “misremembered”. Anyway, if they’re actually pitching today, please keep us posted on how they do. Thanks.
no, he’s saying that his 2007 season isn’t evidence that he was using in 2007.
Cousin Yuri’s wife to have presser.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Brian, you don’t think Alex did steroids?
——
Brian was saying that you can’t look at A-Rod’s ’07 and be like “He had a good year! He did steroids! He didn’t have a good ’06… they tested him for roids in ’06. He must have not been juicing that year.” A statement like this is completely ignorant to all other factors that go into hitting a baseball well.
I read an interesting thread on a Sox blog on where do draw the line on “Performance enhancing”.
The talk was how different is a player using HGH to speed up recovery, to Saito receiving platelet rich injection.
“What should the rules actually be? For example, let’s assume that this platelet procedure does help pitchers recover for injury with few side effects, and let’s assume that all pitchers are always at least a little bit injured, so this procedure would be beneficial to most players. Are we comfortable with the idea of having a large percentage of pitchers going through this on a regular basis, not when they are hurt, but all the time?”
I think the whole premise of performance enhancing needs to be clearly defined. I do realize that it is not going to be an easy thing to do.
I found it funny how ESPN analysts all spoke highly of Charles Barkley’s apology. Why? People like Charles. I like Charles. People call Alex’s apology fake. It’s totally about who we and the media like or dislike.
And DUI’s are 100% more problematic towards public safety then PED’s.
Sean,
I was responding to a commenter who said that A-Rod’s good numbers in ’07 suggested that he used steroids that year. Obviously we know he used from ’01 to ’03, he admitted it.
Maybe he did use in ’07, I have no idea; but I’m not going to make that conclusion from the fact his batting average went up 30 points.
*It’s totally about who we and the media like or dislike.*
*And DUI’s are 100% more problematic towards public safety then PED’s.*
completely agree with both points, which is prob why i’m even THAT much more frustrated with the ARod coverage.
i just read the daily news article and that’s it for me.
arod lied again. lied like a rug again.
he is garbage.
since there is no shred of a reason to believe that sorry sack of ships, his association with a known steroid trainer, plus his hiding that fact, lead me to conclude that he did ped’s in 2007.
its not proven, but its plainly more logical than assuming that a-garbage’s story is true.
he is dead to me i will never believe a thing he ever says again.
i want him off my team.
This isn’t complicated folks. A ton of guys, numbers that would blow most people away, used PED’s until stricter testing took hold in 2004. That’s just a fact.
I guess you can go back in time and “out” everybody if the media chooses to go that route.
What good does that do? Does that give ANY indication of PED use TODAY? No.
Nobody is denying there wasn’t a “wild west”, “loosey goosey”, whatever term you want to use, culture to PED use in MLB for a great number of years.
Today? Usage is down. Not just in the minors but in the majors. A lot of it is because of the current testing program that’s in place.
Prior to ’04? Use was pretty rampant.
However, didn’t we already know that? Are we breaking new ground here? No.
That’s why all this talk is a waste of time.
Show me evidence of widespread PED use TODAY. If you do, then its a story.
If the media can’t, telling me things were wild in 2001-2003 isn’t exactly “news” to me.
Now back to reality Ham. He isn’t going anywhere so, deal with it.
“its not proven, but its plainly more logical than assuming that a-garbage’s story is true.
you are a moron.
I agree SJ, but this has been a bit unfairly all poured upon ARod. I understand releasing “the list” will be a “black eye for baseball” – Jeter. But it will also take focus away from the Yankees, with which I’m all in favor.
I guess ballplayers have to sit on the couch eating junk food all winter. Lifting weights-unfair advantage. Taking vitamins, supplements, eating healthy, extra BP, running drills-all give an advantage over the players who don’t. Of course, I know that steroids, etc are illegal and that is why they are the taboo subject, but enough is enough.
You can go into WalMart today and there are jars of Creatine on the shelf, promising “dramatic increases in muscle mass” and “explosive strength gains”. Does any of that sound familiar. Is creatine banned? and if not, why not? Sounds like an unfair advantage to me.
William Buckner,
Oddly, Charles Barkley’s a man of the people. When they went to the Olympics, he was the only NBA player to go out and mingle (party) with the people. He’s self-deprecating. Highly flawed, but people love him.
Anyway, that’s apples and oranges. Did you see Charles’ apology? It was sincere. Doesn’t mean he won’t do it again because his addiction is hard to kick.
Anyway, no Yankee fan wants this for Alex. But he chose his path. People here are attacking others for pointing out the truth. Which is A-rod’s account brings up more questions than it answers.
he just asked that we judge him from that day forward and i did.
that day was 2 days ago and he is a lying piece of garbage and always will be
id offer him and $100M dollars to anybody who will take him. if he nixes the trade, he sits the bench all year.
“Cousin Yuri’s wife to have presser.”
Ugh! This sarcasm? A joke? If not, hopefully Arod’s people can stop this from happening. Less talk about this from “involved” parties, the better. Hearing from the butler’s wife doesn’t help Arod in the least.
Mark in Tampa
I agree.
What about getting a cortisone shot is that performance enhancing? What about the dramatic increase in Ritalin among MLB players?
we are in some real muddy waters here with “performance enhancing”
TurnTwo
If you haven’t already, go to foxsports.com and read Jason Whitlock’s column. He’s pretty critical of coverage.
My favorite was Scott VanPelt and Gene Wojocowski (sp) saying Michael Vick was more sympathetic then Arod.
You know, cause one guy was trying to get an edge in sports and another was hanging and drowning dogs.
William Buckner, its worse than that. The majority of how we form opinions on public figures is shaped through the media as well. None of us know these people beyond limited snippets of their life that are deemed reportable.
If the media doesn’t like a person for whatever reason, and they generally band together on this, that shapes the way everything gets covered.
ARod has been a target for the media for a long time. Unlike Jeter. While its obvious that Jeter and ARod are entirely different personalities, how much of that is driven by their relationships with the media and how they get covered?
Its not only sports, but just about every single facet that gets reported on.
We have a sitting Governor who used and advocated use of steroids. We have a lot of actors who have used and been caught with the stuff, and it barely gets an inch of print on it. These people are every bit as influential on children as sports figures are.
Sometimes even more so because of the characters the actors play.
It becomes a point where perception is far more important than substance. Agenda more important than real issues.
Ham flying off the handle again. Geez man, settle down. Some article linking him to a suspicious trainer means he used in 2007? Wow.
“And DUI’s are 100% more problematic towards public safety then PED’s.”
not to mention that 1500 people die a day nationally from the effects of tobacco use.
that’s half as many as died in the 9/11 attacks.
this isn’t to say that dangerous peds should be allowed. it’s just that some perspective is needed. sometimes when something is being attacked that is out of proportion to the danger it presents, you have to look at who benefits from the attack and who is hurt.
players are obviously hurt here. are owners hurt ? who commissioned the mitchell report? not the players. so do the owners have anything to gain from having the players scared to death? it might be just as simple as a certain class of people letting another know who’s boss.
Mel,
That’s BS. Charles Barkley is LOVED by the media. That’s why he gets a pass for whatever he does.
Throw a guy through a plate glass window, which he did when he was a player? That’s ok.
Spit in a little girls face, another one of his transgressions? That’s ok.
Be a complete gambling degenerate, forcing the Wynn Hotel to sue him for over 500k to recover his debt? That’s ok.
Drive drunk? That’s ok, he apologized.
Everything I outlined above are worse than anything Arod has EVER done. Yet, he gets a complete free pass by the media because they “like” Chuck?
You want to see the media go after some of Charles’ associations? They aren’t exactly pretty either. Let me know when that takes place. It will never happen.
Nobody in sports has more members of the media carrying his water than Charles Barkley.
Arod? Toast.
When you compare the two and their transgressions, it says more to where our priorities are as a society than anything else.
And what about Lasek surgery? Isn’t that performance enhancing?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2763231
This guy is loved in the D.R. All these players would not be hanging out with this guy now if he was all that bad. Robinson Canso uses him.
“id offer him and $100M dollars to anybody who will take him. if he nixes the trade, he sits the bench all year.”
i didn’t think the posts could get any dumber….keep going!
Mark — Creatine isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and even still I’m pretty sure it’s banned.
“He stated he stopped in 2003 because the statute of limitations on steroid distribution is 5 years. ”
well, that and THEY STARTED TESTING IN 2004.
this place is really Darwin’s waiting room.
Ok so apparently Joba and Bruney DID pitch yesterday. This is the fifth time i’m asking for an update. I guess Pete wasn’t there. Anybody else see how they do? Why doesn’t anybody care about this. I’m gonna go ahead and unapologetically draw attention to the topic.
HOW DID JOBA AND BRUNEY PITCH????????????????????????????
HOW DID JOBA AND BRUNEY PITCH????????????????????????????
HOW DID JOBA AND BRUNEY PITCH????????????????????????????
Everyone, including Alex, wants to dance around the fact that Alex tested positive for steroids. He told Gammons, “In all fairness, I want to see the results. To see what I tested positive for (because presumably it was loosey-goosey)”
Then a week later, he’s very specific about the drug he took. “bole or boli” which he thought was an energy supplement. He snuck the drug into the country and took it for 3 years by his account. He didn’t know (or wouldn’t answer) if there were any discernable effects. Well, as it turns out, that OTC or black market “energy supplement” was an expensive steroid that did more than provide energy.
So, I want to believe Alex. But he’s making it hard.
I can accept it and cheer for him when the season starts, but I refuse to accept his carte blanche explanation when logic tells me otherwise.
We’ve got to face it: This story will not die for a lonnnnnnnnng time.
Things will trickle out all up to the release of Roberts’s book. Then it’ll be another sh*tstorm.
Us Yankees fans simply need to be prepared for this story to have legs — however wobbly they may be at times — for at least two more months. Minimum.
Ham,
Being an emotional little boy is fun for a blog post. It gives everybody a laugh for the day.
However, when you run a team, you can’t be an emotional little boy.
Thankfully, the Yankees don’t run their operation as if they are emotional little boys.
Nothing in that Daily News story should change anybody’s mind about Arod.
When real proof comes along, if it ever does, that’s a different story.
To lose your mind over an innuendo story is laughable.
“id offer him and $100M dollars to anybody who will take him. if he nixes the trade, he sits the bench all year.”
That’s awfully easy to say when you’re not the one eating almost 300 million dollars.
In all fairness SJ44, Barkley isn’t the face of basketball though like ARod is. Also, as Yankee fans, being 26 time world champions and the greatest franchise in all of sports, we have a giant target on our head with all the zealous people out there looking for any way to kick the team.
If ARod was still on the Mariners or Texas this story wouldn’t be as big. It’s also NY.
Another story contradicting Rodriguez’s version of history, this time regarding OTC status in the DR:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3920425
I heard Jeter sometimes works out with A-Rod. Does that mean Jeter is a user now?
I agree that all the Steroids talk may be a little much. But it’s better than talking about the economy. Isn’t sports supposed to be an escape from the real world?
Don’t forget Barkley’s circa 1992 quote “I hate white people”
Also, let’s compare to Leonard Little of the Rams. He killed a woman while he was DUI. He got very little jail time, if any. Then he got another DUI. There was some media coverage, a few calls for him to be banned from the NFL, but it went away quickly. Since it is the NFL, everybody forgets, and it got nowhere near the coverage and outrage that Arod gets, mainly because it won’t sell as many papers, even though it is 1000 times worse than Alex.
Murph,
I say we combine the two. We legalize PED’s and hope the sales of them can boost the economy!
Maybe this story would go away if Alex would stop lying about it for 2 frickin seconds.
Andy’s story, while not complete truthful, ended because there really wasn’t much else left to uncover.
Clemens and A-Rod are in the news because there is/was still plenty to uncover since neither of them are capable of telling the truth.
Russell
Charles is the face of NBA coverage on TNT. He’s a regular on PTI and on radio shows. He’s still very important to the NBA. Maybe most of any star from 80′s-90′s.
*If you haven’t already, go to foxsports.com and read Jason Whitlock’s column. He’s pretty critical of coverage.*
thanks. i havent read it so i’ll head over and check it out today.
There you go Mark makin’ sense again.
Don’t do that. Its Burn Arod at the Stake Day! lol
Perspective people. Sometimes, it comes in handy.
SJ or Randy
Is security that travels with the Yankees employed by them or MLB?
Next will be a story from a US customs official stating that Arod had to be lying, because Boli was illegal to transport to the US in 2001-2003. Certainly if it wasn’t legal, nobody was doing it, right?
SJ and Murph
Some PED’s should be legal and regulated. And in response to someone above, creatine is not banned by MLB.
he asked that i judge him from tuesday on.
as of friday, he’s still a lying sack of crap.
id either manny him or marbury him.
SJ,
Whoa. Why the anger? You think I don’t know that Barkley should’ve been fired? Or that they didn’t because they know he’s a ratings booster and that he’d be picked up by ESPN in a second? TNT won’t admit it, but they were probably flooded by complaints and demands to bring back Sir Charles. Chris Webber? Gary Payton? That’s what we were force fed for 6 weeks. I’m surprised TNT held out that long.
Nobody in the media cares about steroids in football. Nobody in the media cares about a lump of goo on TNT.
But for some stupid reason they care about stupid baseball and its hallowed records.
This isn’t about the Yankees or Alex. If Pujols or Jeter pulled the same ish that Alex pulled, beginning with the steroids, then the Gammons political type infomercial, to a press conference where he brought more questions than he answered, the media would be doing the same thing. They’d find the cousin, they’d be down in the DR buying samples. They’d probably be less vulture-like with Albert or Derek because they’re likeable, but to think this is because it’s A-rod is a joke.
People are just trying to muddy the waters enough, so that we’ll forget what this is all about. Alex Rodgriguez tested positive for steroids.
Andy’s story was BS too. It died because he isn’t a big star.
Arod is a big star. That’s why the story is still a story.
The reality of it is, nothing he has said has been proven false as of yet.
Do you really expect the Dominican government to say, “Sure, we sell everything OTC”? That doesn’t mean the drugs weren’t purchased OTC in the DR. Just means it wasn’t LEGAL.
Duh, I think we could have figured that out for ourselves!
This “trainer”? This guy has been around all of the Dominican players for YEARS. This isn’t “news”.
But, when you have folks ready to go kneejerk over everything Arod, the story will never die.
You know when it becomes a REAL story again? If proof comes forward that he used outside the time periods he said he did.
If hard evidence, irrefutable evidence, comes forth that proves he used outside the time period he says he used, THAT’s serious and he’s done as a ML player.
If there is no evidence of that kind of activity, nothing else matters and nothing will happen to the guy.
Alex is not going anywhere
“Andy’s story, while not complete truthful, ended because there really wasn’t much else left to uncover.
Clemens and A-Rod are in the news because there is/was still plenty to uncover since neither of them are capable of telling the truth.”
The shocking information uncovered so far about A-Rod is the same exact info that emerged from Pettitte’s situation: what he took, who got it for him, what trainer he was working with at the time. Andy didn’t willingly provide very much of this information, as a lot of it came out in the Mitchell Report thanks to McNamee. There were just as many uncertainties with Pettitte’s PED use as there is with A-Rod’s, but the probing of Andy’s story didn’t really last very long after his big confession press conference.
On your second point, please. A-Rod and Clemens are polar opposites in terms of how they’ve approached this issue. Clemens still hasn’t admitted anything and has basically tried to drag his accuser through the mud in the hopes of somehow cleansing himself, even though all evidence proves otherwise.
To assume that nothing A-Rod is saying is truthful is fully up to people’s own opinions, but it’s an extremely judgmental and dismissive approach to take, and honestly it’s simply the approach that second-rate tabloid newspapers in New York want their readers to take so they will keep reading their flimsy stories day in and day out, as if it’s an ever-evolving soap opera.
Pat,
The Yankees employ their own security around the team. The only way MLB Security gets involved is if there is a death threat or other security issue with a player(s).
Bill — I didn’t know if it was banned in MLB but I do know that strength coaches are prohibited from distributing it to players in NCAA.
He stated he stopped in 2003 because the statute of limitations on steroid distribution is 5 years.
—–
I think he said he stopped in 03′ because in 04′ they started testing, he wants to be clear his yankee years are clean, etc… less to do with the 5 year statute.
FYI, if he was on the roids in 2004, i think we can honestly dedude that they did NOT enhance his performance. .286 36/106. WAYYYYY down from his 3 years in Texas.
“And in response to someone above, creatine is not banned by MLB.”
If it is not, maybe it should be. Certainly the gains from it are not what you get from steroids, but it is potentially a health hazard as well. I was an Army Ranger from 1993-98, and the last couple years, several guys starting using creatine with their workouts. The result was that it caused them to be much more susceptible to heat injuries(heat exhaustion, heat stroke), because it dehydrates you so much that it is difficult to drink enough water to keep up. If you do drink enough water, you over hydrate and lose you electrolytes. One soldier came perilously close to dying from heat stroke, before the Colonel forbade any of us from using it from then on.
Doug Glanville seems to have turned writing into a 2nd career. His pieces for the NYT the past few weeks have been good reads. He offers a players perspective many of us could not understand. Here’s his latest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....ef=opinion
deduce..
we need a new post – all the PED stuff gets people riled up and cranky over nothing…all the civility goes out the window.
Was missing reading along/posting all week since this site appears to be blocked at my new client, but if this is what you all were doing I didn’t miss a thing.
For the most part, we are on the same team here – can we try not to lose sight of that?
I blame ARod’s steroid problems on, in order:
Pete Abe, Selena Roberts, Jeter, George Mitchell, the NFL, the media, Bud Selig, the players’ union, GNC, the Rangers’ loosey goosey clubhouse, Cashman, US Customs, Congress, Charles Barkley, DUI laws, the cousin.
I think that about covers it. Did I miss anyone?
Oh, golly the News prints a story that is similar to one ESPN ran a few years ago and people are becoming unhinged?
“To assume that nothing A-Rod is saying is truthful is fully up to people’s own opinions, but it’s an extremely judgmental and dismissive approach to take, and honestly it’s simply the approach that second-rate tabloid newspapers in New York want their readers to take so they will keep reading their flimsy stories day in and day out, as if it’s an ever-evolving soap opera.”
I took A-rod’s statements at face value during Couric’s interview. Turned out he was lying. I took A-rod’s statements at face value during the Gammon’s interview. Turned out he was lying. Turned out he was lying. I took Arod’s statements at face value during his press conference. Turned out he was lying.
When does the media stop getting blamed for this?
Let’s look at this picture of this cute puppy:
http://askspikeonline.files.wo.....th-bow.jpg
Puppies make everyone smile.(I think).
Yes. Suspend someone for lying. I’m sure the Players Assn wouldbt be all over that one. Lets stop setting the double standard for A-Rod here. Just because you dont like the guy Pete doesnt mean he should be treated any different in this case like everyone else. You and the rest of MSM need to let it go. The horse is dead.
Im with you SA – puppies = very cute
*I agree that all the Steroids talk may be a little much. But it’s better than talking about the economy. Isn’t sports supposed to be an escape from the real world?*
its supposed to be, but not like this.
Rishi had a link to an article Doug Glanville wrote in the NY Times about ballplayers and the media… kind of applies to this idea, and it was really good insight from the players’ POV.
“Turned out he was lying. I took Arod’s statements at face value during his press conference. Turned out he was lying.”
what was he lying about?
“I blame ARod’s steroid problems on, in order:
Pete Abe, Selena Roberts, Jeter, George Mitchell, the NFL, the media, Bud Selig, the players’ union, GNC, the Rangers’ loosey goosey clubhouse, Cashman, US Customs, Congress, Charles Barkley, DUI laws, the cousin.”
That’s a cute way to just try to brush aside a bunch of logical points that legitimate posters made. None of them were in any way excusing what Alex did in their comments, but of course it’s easy for you to just dismiss their statements as apologizing for Alex’s misbehavior.
Ham, you gotta calm down fella. This trainer that A-Rod is linked to knows EVERY player to ever come from the DR. Are you going to call of the the other DR players sacks of shit that don’t deserve to ever play baseball again? If you are calling A-Rod guilty for associating with a trainer, then indict all the DR players.
Also, I’m sure a lot of the Yankees players knew, or even took advice from, Brian McNamee. Maybe even Jeter. Is he guilty now too?
If you freak out about every association A-Rod has ever had, you are going to go insane. Calm down, take a Xanax, and wait for some actual facts to come out.
“I guess ballplayers have to sit on the couch eating junk food all winter. Lifting weights-unfair advantage. Taking vitamins, supplements, eating healthy, extra BP, running drills-all give an advantage over the players who don’t.”
this is where things get tricky. things are banned for very strange reasons. sudafed was banned at the olympics and then unbanned. are all sudafed users suspect because they use an over the counter product because it was once a banned substance.
if a player is asked if they ever used a banned substance and they say yes, it sounds bad, but it’s necessarily bad. this could simply mean a cold medicine like sudafed.
peds are a complex issue and it takes a certain amount of IQ to understand a particular case. because it’s complex it is very easy for the media or someone with an agenda to manipulate the truth of what’s really going on.
the knee jerk reaction that because arod has a possible connection to a dominican trainer that he is still using steroids , is typical faulty thinking.
it also looks to me that there is more than a little dominican discrimination going on.
from the espn link above,” Presinal enjoyed a visible presence at the inaugural World Baseball Classic, overseeing strength and conditioning for the Dominican team.”
the guy has some credentials. he’s not just some ped dealer like radomsky. they did do blood tests at the WBC. i’m not so sure this guy is a really bad guy.
but maybe the point of the accusers is that dominicans are the problem and that mlb has to get them under control . it is interesting how teams like the red sox are slowly getting rid of their latin players and replacing them with non latin players.
that’s another thing being hid in plain sight, but that’s a subject for another day.
correction: “if a player is asked if they ever used a banned substance and they say yes, it sounds bad, but it’s not necessarily bad. this could simply mean a cold medicine like sudafed.”
Mark,
All true points to it’s effects. But you are talking about military service where your conditions may not be monitored. In fact, I but they intentionally pushed you to extreme conditions for training purposes.
You often see, especially in September FB, players needing IV’s because of creatine use and dehydration. Especially in games in the south. Though for athletes it’s really not a risk factor. Not like ephedra was.
Okay, here’s a steroid-free boost:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/I-m-here-to-pump-you-up
“what was he lying about?”
Katie Couric interview = lying without a shadow of a doubt. Other two interviews, the lying is only in the eye of the beholder, and considering how many times you used the word “lying” in your post, it’s clear that your eye sees nothing but lies when it looks at A-Rod. That’s fine. However, to try and say that blaming the media is a crutch that A-Rod apologists are leaning on is a weak argument. It’s a matter of proof–you can’t prove A-Rod is lying, the media can’t prove A-Rod is lying and therefore I am not going to just believe that A-Rod is lying because of your apparently infallible gut instincts.
“What more evidence is needed? The “trainer” is kicked out of all MLB ballparks lololol.”
you are unsmart.
im sorry randy i respect your opinions but this is quite a stretch,:”the knee jerk reaction that because arod has a possible connection to a dominican trainer that he is still using steroids , is typical faulty thinking.”
a possible connection? yeah if you consider a possible connection that the guy traveled around the country with him and stayed with his cousin, arod’s ped supplier a ‘possible connection’
“peds are a complex issue and it takes a certain amount of IQ to understand a particular case.” true by lying like a piece of garbage is alot less complex an issue.
and finally, yes it is easy for”someone with an agenda to manipulate the truth of what’s really going on.” and the head manipulator is the guy with the most to gain and thats arod.
For everyone talking about how much A-Rod lied: The only time he really lied was in the Couric interview, and why the hell would he tell the truth then? How many ball players do you think have lied when asked “Did you do PEDs?”
As for Gammons and the press conference, there is a MONUMENTAL difference between “lying” and “not revealing every single specific detail.”
Roger Clemens is lying. Barry Bonds is lying. Rafael Palmeiro lied.
A-Rod came clean and admitted he used steroids. That is the single most important part of the story. HE CAME CLEAN. Who else has done so in such a straight forward way? Giambi? No way. He didn’t even admit what he was sorry for. Pettitte? PLEASE. You really believe his story? Just because he has a bible in his hand, is that it?
If people are saying “why would A-Rod stop if it was helping him?” Why don’t people ask Pettitte the same question. If ANYTHING, I would say A-Rod proved to himself in his first few years that he had enough talent to compete with anyone. Pettitte, on the other hand, was an aging, injured pitcher. Why would he stop using PEDs?
The hypocracy and double standards are MIND-BOGGLING.
“Katie Couric interview = lying without a shadow of a doubt”
i know.
i am asking what has been proven to be a lie from Tuesday’s press conference.
“what was he lying about?”
From Stark:
For instance, try to glue all these quotations together into one coherent, consistent thought:
• He said at one point that whatever he took, whatever his cousin was injecting into his body, he “didn’t think they were steroids.”
• But he was still so terrified of anyone finding out, it was “one of those things you try not to share with anyone.”
• For “all these years,” he said at another point, “I really didn’t think I did anything wrong.”
• Yet just minutes later, he said: “I knew I wasn’t taking Tic Tacs. I knew it was something that could perhaps be wrong.”
“I took Arod’s statements at face value during his press conference. Turned out he was lying.”
Where’s the proof he lied at the press conference? Just because the DR won’t cop to selling the stuff doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Now, if his cousin holds a presser and says that the whole story is fabricated, that’s one thing. Until then, there’s no hard proof that Alex lied.
Brian Roberts thinks he is going to “win” in Baltimore?
(from Buster):
“• Brian Roberts agreed to a four-year deal, and says his decision was predicated on getting a chance to win, as Jeff Zrebiec writes. Piece by piece, the Orioles are solidifying a solid foundation. Time will tell if they’re able to continue taking strides forward, but since Andy MacPhail took over, they have been moving in the right direction.”
So, Ham. What do you think about all of the other players who have used this trainer? Are they all steroid users too? Because if you say no, then you have no leg to stand on when accusing A-Rod.
As for Gammons and the press conference, there is a MONUMENTAL difference between “lying” and “not revealing every single specific detail.”
I think Selena Roberts would like a word with you. Also, its funny how he didn’t know what he was taking when he spoke to Gammons, but did know it was Boli days later.
I guess as Yankee fans though some of us have gotten used to using semantics to justify the actions of Yankee players recently.
No offense, but anything that Yuri or his wife says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
So, Steve Balboni, tell me what not knowing what drug he took when talking to Gammons actually means. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Saying “I don’t know what drug I took” does not mean “I have been taking steroids my entire career and haven’t stopped.”
Where were you when Pettitte admitted steroid use? You believe everything he says?
“Hey Duh, How do you like the membership of the sycophant’s brigade? You wear “duh” well! lolololol”
good one.
lololol!!
to this point, all of those guys have more credibility than arod. we know arod is lying about it, now ill be glad to look into any of those other guys and see what the connection is and how credible the player is on the subject.
i think we obviously have to assume that tejada was and still is lying and covering up.
ditto for juan gonzalez.
id have to know what kind of connection there is to the other guys.
http://www.murraychass.com/?p=526
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQVMMNjxQU
“You often see, especially in September FB, players needing IV’s because of creatine use and dehydration. Especially in games in the south. Though for athletes it’s really not a risk factor. Not like ephedra was.”
it’s a myth that ephedra is any more dangerous than a lot of common over the counter drugs. this was a post i did last week that sums up the issue:
“part of the problem with complex issues is when you get really stupid analyses from supposedly smart reporters like jason stark:
“Nine days ago, there was no mention of any other “substances.” But on Tuesday, Rodriguez admitted to ESPN’s Hannah Storm that he also used to take Ripped Fuel, which was later banned — at least in its original ephedra-based form — by both baseball and the FDA.”
ephedrine to ephedra is caffeine to coffee.
pseudo ephedrine was sudafed. there was nothing else in sudafed.
so the FDA banned the herb, but let the active ingredient be sold as the product sudafed.
think people think. it would be like banning coffee, but letting the active ingredient be sold still.
so stark is trying to say arod did something bad by ingesting a product that had the active ingredient in it that makes up sudafed.
there is a baby dose for sudafed.
if ephedra is bad, then sudafed is too.
they were the same thing.
if stark is going to rip arod for ripped fuel he really needs to rip everyone who has ever taken sudafed too. sudafed and ripped fuel had the same active ingredient- ephedrine.
the fact the sudafed/ephedra link has never been publicized shows how little the major media thinks. “
i hope that mlb investigates the hell out of this guy’s connection with arod in 2007 and if, as it there is reasonable evidence that he used in 2007, he gets 50 days suspension.
if they prove he used last year, he should be banned.
“For instance, try to glue all these quotations together into one coherent, consistent thought:”
yeah, i think Alex is kindof dumb. i’m not arguing that.
but he admitted taking steroids at the press conference.
i don’t see how it is a “lie” that he said at one point he wasn’t sure if it was against the rules or not. maybe he wasn’t sure. like i said, he’s not that smart.
but the bottom line is that he SAID HE TOOK STEROIDS.
none of that other crap you quoted matters. you are just playing “gotcha” with his poor communication skills.
you are acting as if he tried to say he DIDN’T take steroids. which isn’t true.
and if there is reasonable evidence…
duh,
I know you were referring to the press conference on Tuesday, was just drawing the distinction between Couric and the 2 other examples of “clear lying” that were presented by career .229 hitter Steve Balboni.
To follow up on those pulled Jayson Stark quotes, how does that prove that A-Rod flat-out lied during the press conference? You can parse all his words in the press conference and scream liar until your face turns blue, but until there is some hard evidence that A-Rod’s story is a total fabrication, it will just be your opinion that his press conference and the Gammons interview were lying sessions.
So Ham, you are basically saying that this trainer probably only played poker with every player except for A-Rod (and maybe Tejada.) Hmmmm… Doesn’t seem like a known steroid peddler would only supply to A-Rod. But you are only going to assume that A-Rod is guilty? Basically, you believe those sycophants at the Post, Daily News, and ESPN. You are completely drinking their Kool-Aid. Anytime there is anything that even raises a question, you assume it is a fact. I mean, shit, it’s like you don’t even remember that A-Rod actually admitted to using steroids.
“No offense, but anything that Yuri or his wife says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.”
A large margarita to go along with the salt would help.
If she says he’s lying does that get taken with a grain of salt too?
im wondering, if mlb proved he used ped’s on 2 different occasions in 2007 if they could go directly to a lifetime ban for using 2x?
yes, if it can be proven that A-Rod was using in 2007, he should be suspended.
is anyone arguing that?
but so far there isn’t the slightest shred of that proof. some of you seem to think there is.
Also, for everyone jumping at A-Rod, why would he bother to lie about what he took? The only thing that is worth lying about is the years that he took it. Does it matter if he got it from a trainer or his cousin? In the DR or the USA? Took them in the butt or orally? Does any of that really matter? If someone proved that he took a different steroid that he claims, what the hell does that even mean? What does he have to gain by saying he took something else?
The only thing worth lying about is the years that he took it. If someone can prove he took steroids after he says he stopped taking them, THAT is a news story. The rest of it DOESN’T MATTER AT ALL.
Ham, you are just insane.
“im wondering, if mlb proved he used ped’s on 2 different occasions in 2007 if they could go directly to a lifetime ban for using 2x?”
no. that’s not how it works.
that would be his first offense. if he got caught again, the penalty would go up.
“What more evidence is needed? The “trainer” is kicked out of all MLB ballparks lololol. Yes, Arod, was only using the professional services of the “trainer” loololol. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. His career is toast.”
tantrum willoughby-
didn’t your hero rush limbaugh have a little oxycontin problem ? wasn’t that a case of the mighty falling flat on their hypocritical face?
“If she says he’s lying does that get taken with a grain of salt too?”
Yes, pat. Because she’s already come out and said (paraphrashing here), “What Alex said was true.”
“The only thing worth lying about is the years that he took it. If someone can prove he took steroids after he says he stopped taking them, THAT is a news story. The rest of it DOESN’T MATTER AT ALL.”
Yeah, exactly right, and if any of that proof came out, then all the proclamations of A-Rod being “toast” and “done” would be justified. As of now it is just over-the-top bellyaching over nothing.
I hope Arod is happy about how he has destroyed baseball, the NYY, and himself. The curse of Arod is here for 9 more years. We are in deep trouble.
———–
I really hope you are joking, because otherwise you are so completely out of touch with reality that you are helpless. I think baseball, the NYY, and A-Rod himself will all do just fine. Especially since all they care about is money.
Ham,
While you are going off on silly little rants, the guy has taken over 20 drug tests and at least one, soon to be two, blood tests since 2004, and has come up clean everytime.
How exactly should MLB “investigate” him at this point? What evidence is there of continued drug use? None, as far as we know.
Because he has an association with a trainer that about 50 other players in the also have, that should trigger an investigation?
Why not investigate all of the players he works with? Why just Arod?
Silly, emotional rants aside, MLB is not going to investigate one player because you want them to.
If there is evidence of Arod using PED’s since 2003, somebody will come forward with tangible evidence. They always do. Ask Brian McNamee.
If there isn’t, this will die a slow death.
“So, Steve Balboni, tell me what not knowing what drug he took when talking to Gammons actually means. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Saying “I don’t know what drug I took” does not mean “I have been taking steroids my entire career and haven’t stopped.””
Of course it doesn’t mean he has taken steroids his whole career. It is just part of the reason that A-Rod is dishonest and has absolutely no credibility with anyone apart from certain Yankee fans who accept everything he says on blind faith.
There is absolutely no reason to think he is telling the truth at this point. He has only “come clean” to the extent he has when confronted with evidence or statements contracting his current story.
Its the idea that this makes sense: “Yes, Katie, I am telling the truth. No, Peter, NOW I’m telling the truth. No, everyone, now I’m REALLY telling the truth.”
You are certainly welcome to believe what he says and trust he is telling the truth – thats certainly your right. I am just not as gullible.
“Where were you when Pettitte admitted steroid use? You believe everything he says?”
What happened with Pettitte has absolutely no bearing on Arod’s credibility. And I don’t believe everything Pettitte says anyway. But Pettitte also didn’t give a series of interviews with glaring commissions, contradictions and lies while paying a staff crisis managers.
new ‘baseball’ post…
Ham
Stick to real possibilities, this is crazy enough without hypotheticals. If he tested positive 2X in 2007, he never would have played in 2008.
ARod is trying to get by with telling the truth with as little detail as possible for as long as he can. For whatever his reasons are for doing so. Maybe he can only handle so much or maybe he just hoped whatever he gave along with admitting his wrongdoing was more than enough.
No one can say because no one knows.
All the details in the world can’t change the fact that he used steroids, and that is that. Everything else is just dust.
UNLESS someone can prove he lied about anything after 2004. Then, it’s open season on ARod.
Until then, I’d rather live in ignorant bliss of the details and hope he drives in a zillion runs and the Yankees win almost all their games.
And if he’s found to have lied, I mean proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, about taking steroids after 2004, I would hope he would do the right thing and walk away from the game. But, that’s not going to happen. So, I’ll likely remain neutral.
As humans, we are capable of compartmentalizing – and in this situation, I will separate ARod the newsstory from ARod the baseball player. I wish ARod the newsstory could just go away; but I will cheer for ARod the baseball player to have a great season.
What’s disgraceful is the vendetta that you and others in the media have against the guy. Why didn’t you go after Andy Pettitte in the same manner. He lied about using PEDs when the Grimsley thing came out. Yet you just accept everything he ever said in his confession and he wasn’t nearly as detailed as A-Rod. The double standard says more about the media than it does about A-Rod.
You are certainly welcome to believe what he says and trust he is telling the truth – thats certainly your right. I am just not as gullible.
————-
“The Truth” is that he ADMITTED TO USING STEROIDS. That is the truth. What he took doesn’t matter. Who he took it from doesn’t matter. Where he got it from doesn’t matter. Why he took them doesn’t matter. WHEN he took them does matter. And, on this point, I’m not taking A-Rod’s word, I’m taking the word of all the drug tests saying he is clean. If YOU want to be gullible, and believe every Mike Francesca, Joel Sherman, and Bill Madden, be my guest. But I’ll use drug tests. I’ll also realize that catching A-Rod lying about what drug he took DOESN’T MATTER AT ALL. What does A-Rod have to gain by saying he took Boli, if in fact he took something else? WHY WOULD HE LIE ABOUT THAT? What does he have to gain from lying about that? Answer me that, PLEASE.
this Alex Rodriguez problem is going to drag on …..this will be the best of times for him right now,it’s going to get bad
im sorry sj but i have to believe that he did it. there is no reason to believe arod, none.
and you know i get him the benefit of the doubt all the way until the evidence just overwhelmed my ability to keep believing him.
i did as he asked and tried to judge him from that day forward and my conclusion is that on that day he lied.
therefore i have no reason to believe that an admitted ped user and obvious liar who was followed around by his ‘supplier’ cousin who was staying with a known ped trainer (whom arod had been warned about) isnt more than enough proof to assume that he was using ped’s that wernet being picked up in mlb’s tests.
im sorry but that IS a logical conclusion whether you like arod or not.
im sorry but that IS a logical conclusion whether you like arod or not.
———
Of course, Ham has never heard of these things call “Drug Tests.”
“didn’t your hero rush limbaugh have a little oxycontin problem ? wasn’t that a case of the mighty falling flat on their hypocritical face?”
oh, this is the guy who called Limbaugh “the prince of freedom” the other night?
thank you for pointing that out randy, he is not worth responding to as he is obviously functionally braindead.
thanks for saving me time.
“im sorry but that IS a logical conclusion whether you like arod or not.”
hamfighter-
i’m sure there is a logic course at your local community college that you could take
Also, Ham, if you wanted all current and former PED users immediately kicked off their respective teams, I’m not sure there would be an MLB anymore.
I would personally like to see Jeter, Posada, Rivera & Pettitte win one more Championship together. The rest of these guys I could care less about. The free agents come here for the money, and the young players coming up have a twisted sense of entitlement. That’s why clubs enjoy sticking it to the Yankees.
Arod is a piece of garbage. He has shown time and time again to betray those who trust him, and he will lie and stretch the truth at his will. Let’s not forget this is the guy who was caught banging strippers on the road, while his wife was at home with his children. This guy has no redeeming qualities as a human being, and is only appreciated because he can hit a baseball, and now that was A-Fraud as well.
yes i want the players who have been using ped’s since 2004 suspended. its 50 games for the 1st offense, 100 for the second and a lifetime ban for the third right? those are the rules that the players agreed to?
so if they show that arod took ped’s on 3 occasions in 2007, he deserves a lifetime ban.
In Cancun Mexico, where I’ve been 6 times up till 2001, you could pick up just about anything you wanted, be it roids, percocets, valuum, etc. in just about every “pharmacy” in and around town. Now, I’ve never been to the DR, nor do I know how “legal” it was to sell those goodies in those Mexican stores, but they were there, clear as day. For people who’ve never been to 3rd world countries, the laws of the land are pretty much nonexistent. It’s nothing like life in the USA, or say western europe. So while the government might say that X, Y, & Z are illegal, that wouldn’t mean they aren’t available in stores.
Ham Fighters,
So ARod being dishonest about the details of his pre-2004 drug use PROVES HE IS STILL DOING STEROIDS even though he has never tested positive since 2004.
That is not exactly a logical perspective.
Sorry but unless he actually tests positive for PEDs, you are going to have to “suffer” through having one of the best players in baseball on your team for several more years.
Let’s not forget this is the guy who was caught banging strippers on the road, while his wife was at home with his children. This guy has no redeeming qualities as a human being, and is only appreciated because he can hit a baseball, and now that was A-Fraud as well.
——–
Well, his wife actually seems like a crazy b*tch too. And you think he is the only ballplayer to cheat on his wife? With 81 days on the road? What about players doing amphetamines? What about A-Rod just donating that baseball field? The big anti-steroids guy that was at the press conference did a few interviews saying how forthcoming and helpful A-Rod has and will continue to be. Don’t believe everything you read, and don’t be so naive about baseball players being saints.
I think ARod’s convoluted stories about his steroid use bear a striking resemblence to way back when he was snagged frequenting illegal late night poker houses in the city.
First “this is nobody’s business but mine”, then “what’s the big deal”, then “oh my god, I’m so sorry, I had no idea this was an issue”.
I guess if you follow up a strings of lies with a half-truth, the half-truth seems honest.
“thank you for pointing that out randy, he is not worth responding to as he is obviously functionally braindead.”
duh-
these hot issues create some unusual alliances
why do people even really care if he is lying?
i dont get it.
he told the truth about the most important detail: he used performance enhancing drugs.
what else do you really need to know? or why do you really care to know?
Why is it so important if he lied or not?
Last I checked Arod is not my Senator or President.
Is he a good ballplayer? Is he a good teammate? Has he been tested since 2003? That’s what matters to me.
This whole story has gotten to the point where it’s no different than who Paris was out with last night, or following Brittany’s every move. Who Cares. Not me
First “this is nobody’s business but mine”, then “what’s the big deal”, then “oh my god, I’m so sorry, I had no idea this was an issue”
——–
And which one of those is a lie?
““The Truth” is that he ADMITTED TO USING STEROIDS.And, on this point, I’m not taking A-Rod’s word, I’m taking the word of all the drug tests saying he is clean.”
Except there is no reliable test for HGH (within the MLB testing program) and steroids are always a step ahead of steroid testing.
“What does A-Rod have to gain by saying he took Boli, if in fact he took something else? WHY WOULD HE LIE ABOUT THAT? What does he have to gain from lying about that? Answer me that, PLEASE.”
If he took HGH, he could still be taking it since it isn’t tested for. If he took something else, he could still be on something and either masking it or taking something that is presently undetectable.
Also, I am not arguing that he is on steroids. I have no idea if he is. I’m just saying that for 99% of the people who care about this issue, the only proof we have that he is not is the craptastic MLB drug testing program which does not test for the best steroids $30m a year can buy. The idea that people should believe he is clean because he says so is ludicrous when you consider his history of both taking steroids and lying about taking steroids.
As an attorney, I would never let this guy on the stand.
But the issue isn’t really whether he is clean. There is no way to know that. My issue is that he is a proven liar with zero credibility.
“so if they show that arod took ped’s on 3 occasions in 2007, he deserves a lifetime ban.”
The bans are for positive tests. If proof emerges that A-Rod was using during a post-2003 year, BUT he didn’t test positive, he won’t be banned for life. This is what happened with Jose Guillen, who was linked to buying HGH from 2002 to 2005. He got handed a 15 game suspension that the union got overturned.
So, in your hypothetical situation, if A-Rod is exposed as using in some year post-2003 without a positive test, he is NOT getting a lifetime ban. Just like in the court of law, there are precedents for these kinds of scenarios.
But the issue isn’t really whether he is clean. There is no way to know that. My issue is that he is a proven liar with zero credibility.
———
Then if A-Rod is a liar, what does that make Clemens and Bonds? Can you go any lower than 0 credibility? Oh wait, you say A-Rod DID admit to using steroids? Bonds and Clemens didn’t, you say? Oh wow, that sure makes it seem as though A-Rod has some strands of truth in him.
“But the issue isn’t really whether he is clean. There is no way to know that. My issue is that he is a proven liar with zero credibility.”
Steve,
I am not trying to be a wise guy, but he’s a baseball player. Not a teacher or Mayor or…
Should we make ball players go through a vetting proccess? Where only “good” people are allowed? I am just trying to understand why is it important if he’s a liar or not.
Al
I don’t think Arod is a sait by any means. I just don’t like the guy, and how he conducts his life in the papers. When you’ve been spoiled by the class of Jeter over the years, Arod’s behavior is unacceptable. The guy is just a jerk. Not as big a jerk as Clemens, or Bonds, but a jerk nonetheless, and a blatant liar.
Saint
“Then if A-Rod is a liar, what does that make Clemens and Bonds? Can you go any lower than 0 credibility? Oh wait, you say A-Rod DID admit to using steroids? Bonds and Clemens didn’t, you say? Oh wow, that sure makes it seem as though A-Rod has some strands of truth in him.”
No, they are all liars and cheats and all equal in my eyes. The main difference is one is not delusional and has had the benefit of seeing what can happen if you don’t just cop to it when confronted with hard evidence.
Every single person who admitted using PEDs (except Canseco? or Caminiti? maybe) has only admitted using after they were caught. None of these guys should be believed.
The differnce between Arod, Bonds, and Clemens is that were only stuck with one of them for the next nine years.
“I am not trying to be a wise guy, but he’s a baseball player. Not a teacher or Mayor or…
Should we make ball players go through a vetting proccess? Where only “good” people are allowed? I am just trying to understand why is it important if he’s a liar or not.”
Of course not. Its just a stupid game that means nothing. When he hits into a double play with a men on first and third and one, or hits a 3 run homer to cut the lead to 4, his credibility doesn’t matter at all.
But there is this insane debate over whether the media is being unfair and whether fans are being too hard on him because, after all, he “admitted” using unlike most others. I think the point is that yes, he admitted using in the past, but there is no reason to take his word that he is not using now.
Every single person who admitted using PEDs (except Canseco? or Caminiti? maybe) has only admitted using after they were caught. None of these guys should be believed.
——-
So admission is worth absolutely nothing in your book? Clemens fighting this tooth and nail is the same as Andy Pettitte admitting he did it? Myself, I see at least some difference there.
“Every single person who admitted using PEDs (except Canseco? or Caminiti? maybe) has only admitted using after they were caught. None of these guys should be believed.”
Do you know of any Attorney who has admitted a transgression to the Bar before they were caught?
I think the point is that yes, he admitted using in the past, but there is no reason to take his word that he is not using now.
I agree, thats why I am glad he’s been tested numerous times since 2003.
Please stop over the HGH furor, everyone please. Talking about that only shows how incompetent you are.
Gman
February 20th, 2009 at 11:27 am
The differnce between Arod, Bonds, and Clemens is that were only stuck with one of them for the next nine years.
=======================================
Gman,
lol. Aint that the truth. That’s the only thing that matters to Yankee fans.
And why all the anger here? We’re just poking holes at Alex’s story. Yet people want to believe he’s fessed up. He hasn’t. He tested positive for steroids and has yet to admit he knowingly took steroids. Instead he claims his cousin muled in energy boosters that just happened to be injectionable.
A-rod must think we’re the stupid ones if he thinks we believe that he didn’t know what he was doing.
I would like to know how many times he has been tested since 2003…bet it’s not many
joeman,
Alex threw the number “12″ out there. It’s shockingly low. Cyclists get tested after every leg of every race. Testers can show up on your doorstep on Christmas morning and you have to pee on demand. MLB players have it easy.
this will wear on him all season…so don’t expect much
This is not going away and it is going to Snowball out of control.
this will wear on him all season…so don’t expect much
——
yeah, I agree. I mean, his worst season with the Yankees he went .286/.375/.512. Only 14th in MVP voting, HA! What a bum. He’ll probably only hit 35 HRs with 110 RBIs this year! DON’T EXPECT MUCH!
Yankees should make A-Rod sign some kind of contract that says if it is found out later that he is currently lying than all terms of his contract are re-negotiable or he has to pay some back or something. I’m sure the players’ union would never allow it, but i’d like to see it anyway.
Yankees should make A-Rod sign some kind of contract that says if it is found out later that he is currently lying than all terms of his contract are re-negotiable or he has to pay some back or something. I’m sure the players’ union would never allow it, but i’d like to see it anyway.
———
Yeah, sure. Because A-Rod would sign that. Get a grip.
Andy Pettitte is every bit as much of a liar as A-Rod. Where is the animosity for him? Why was everything in his confession believed? Why the double standard.
i disagree that we are stuck with arod. if the u.s. attoney starts looking into the cousin and the trainer, there could well be testimony that he used on more than 2 occasions in 2007. which would give the commishioner every reason to ban him for life.
David,
Guess you weren’t around a year ago. The media investigated, found holes in Andy’s story. Talked about Andy’s dad and close friend. Wrote their “bad Andy” articles. To this day, people here hold it against Andy.
Nobody cares about the pitchers. They only care about the hitters. Specifically the homerun hitters.
What a complete and utter waste of money this trial on Bonds is. It all comes down to Greg Anderson’s testimony whom we know will go to jail rather than testify. Awesome use of tax dollars!!!! We might be able to prove Bonds lied about taking steroids!!!!!! What a joke.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3920394
#Al
So admission is worth absolutely nothing in your book? Clemens fighting this tooth and nail is the same as Andy Pettitte admitting he did it? Myself, I see at least some difference there.
Admission only after being caught and exposed is worth very little. Had he come out last year in support of Andy and said “I did it too” he would have been seen as honest. Honesty isn’t telling the truth (with plenty of inconsistencies) after you are caught. Its telling the truth when you are not forced to tell the truth.
As for Bonds and Clemens, I don’t believe a word any of them utters. That said, A-Rod is “more honest” than Clemens and Bonds, but only to a slight degree. In his case, I believe him when he says he used steroids. I don’t believe that he didn’t know what they were, that he only used them for the period he claims, and that he used it because he was young and naive. I do not have an opinion either way as to whether he used anything else or whether he is using now. His statements to the contrary do not sway that opinion because of his lack of credibility on this issue.
#Tarheelyank
“Do you know of any Attorney who has admitted a transgression to the Bar before they were caught?”
Yes – loads. Self-reporting happens often. Anyone who has ever been arrested needs to (and usually does) report this to the Bar prior to admission. This includes arrests as a minor which are generally sealed and won’t come to light. I personally know several who reported arrests with no coercion apart from their own conscience.
“I agree, thats why I am glad he’s been tested numerous times since 2003.”
I find that important, but not conclusive as there is no test which is completely reliable. His word doesn’t make this fact any more believable.
m-Andy is held up as a positive example by the media about how to confess. Yet there were just as many holes in his story. The double standard is sickening.
Andy trained with Clemens for 6 years, but everyone in the media seems to believe Andy when he said he only used those two times. Give me a break.
Hey kids!
Doncha love the press?
What a service they did for us by tracking down Arod’s cousin. Wow, they’re my heroes for sure. For sure. Wowee!
YAWN!
About Bonds – they have enough independent information to put him away for a long time, including written records, calendars, etc.
Agree about Bonds. He’s going away for a while.
don’t wanna get bounced -
Read the article. All that evidence has been thrown out unless Anderson testifies because it’s hearsay without his testimony that those calendars, etc belong to Bonds.
i disagree that we are stuck with arod. if the u.s. attoney starts looking into the cousin and the trainer, there could well be testimony that he used on more than 2 occasions in 2007. which would give the commishioner every reason to ban him for life.
————-
Ham. Get a grip! That would never happen EVER. He needs FAILED DRUG TESTS. The commish hasn’t banned Bonds or Clemens, why would he ban A-Rod?
CHILL OUT AND MOVE ON.
David,
Alex has done nothing but explain away a positive test. He still won’t admit he used steroids. He said he was using an energy booster. That they smuggled in. For 3 years.
Why not just drink Mountain Dew?
And another lie surfaces. Arod said during the press conference that he got Primo over the counter in the DR.
Turns out that primobolan (the drug he tested positive for) is illegal in the Dominican Republic and was never available over the counter as Rodriguez claimed it was.
But by all means keep thinking he told the truth at the press conference.
Sorry – link to the primo story: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3920425
Steve Balboni -
You don’t think that Arod, with his name, money and connections, could find a way to score primobolan OTC?
I sure do.
Thanks Steve
Obviously I am not an attorney. I do appreciate the information. If I was being picky I might point out that you say
“Anyone who has ever been arrested needs to (and usually does) report this to the Bar prior to admission.”
Prior to admission being the key phrase.
That’s not exactly the question I asked.
I do understand your point, hopefully you understand mine. Not many people admit doing something wrong or legal prior to getting caught.
And another lie surfaces. Arod said during the press conference that he got Primo over the counter in the DR.
Turns out that primobolan (the drug he tested positive for) is illegal in the Dominican Republic and was never available over the counter as Rodriguez claimed it was.
But by all means keep thinking he told the truth at the press conference.
——
Because A-Rod has so much to gain by lying about which drug he bought in the DR? Have you ever been to the DR? Do you think they have a very strong regulatory system? You REALLY believe that if the DR government says something isn’t available OTC that that is really the truth? Don’t be so naive.
If you believe that, I have a bridge goin over the East River I could sell ya…. real cheap too.
Steve -
Because the DR is going to readily admit that such a substance is available without a prescription the DR. Come on now, think!
Not many people admit doing something wrong or legal prior to getting caught.
————–
That’s the American way. I’m pretty sure it’s in the Bill of Rights somewhere.
dismiss it all you want but if there was testimony in federal court or included in an unsealed plea agreement that arod used more than 2 times from 2004 on, the commish will have the power to throw him out under the best interest power and the arbitrater will likely side with mlb b/c the union areed to the penalties in the program.
you can opine that the arbitrator would rule oterwise but it would just be your opinion against mine.
Steve –
Because the DR is going to readily admit that such a substance is available without a prescription the DR. Come on now, think!
——–
What do you mean rodg12? Governments never lie or cover-up!
Steve
have you read this?
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ws_-1.html
“Illston also ruled, however, that most of an audio recording of Anderson — secretly made by Bonds’ estranged business partner Steve Hoskins — can be admitted into evidence. On the recording, Anderson tells Hoskins he provided Bonds with an undetectable substance believed to be the steroid known as “The Clear”; the government believes Anderson also indicates on the recording that he injected Bonds multiple times. As well, Anderson tells Hoskins he was providing Bonds with “the same stuff” Marion Jones and other BALCO athletes had received.”
Hey Rodg, with that, testimony from four first-hand witnesses who implicate Bonds and/or Anderson, and testimony from an expert witness, I would take the government’s case 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.
c’mon al, how many drugs that arent legally sold over the counter could i get out of the guy standing on the corner right here in the u.s.a.?
Whether or not the drug was bought OTC, that doesn’t change the fact that Alex took it. Since when is ignorance an acceptable defense? If you guys think that Alex injected himself with a substance for 3 years and had no clue what it was or what it was for, then I don’t know what to say.
dismiss it all you want but if there was testimony in federal court or included in an unsealed plea agreement that arod used more than 2 times from 2004 on, the commish will have the power to throw him out under the best interest power and the arbitrater will likely side with mlb b/c the union areed to the penalties in the program.
———-
Why in the world would Bud Selig kick out the biggest money maker in the game? You think bud gives a sh*t about morals? Jesus christ man, get off it. The PR hit has already happened, no point in crying over spilled milk. Bud knows whats good for baseball, money-wise, that’s why he didn’t do anything about steroids for so long. Get off your high horse, Ham.
and the schedules and calendars are only out if the prosecution cant corraborate them. but they may still get them in.
another thing, when you are bringing an indictment, you dont know beforehand what is going to be allowd in and what isnt. they didnt know that some of thier most damning evidece was going to be excluded or needed to be corraborated before being admitted.
so to say that they have nothing now, which is wrong imo, is still not to say that they didnt think they had a valid case to present.
All anyone is doing now is justifying.
Fact: A-rod claimed primo was available OTC in the D.R. (aka that it was legal). That is false.
Result: A-Rod was lying at his press conference
Fact: A-Rod has been shown to have lied in the Couric interview, Gammons interview and press conference.
Result: A-Rod is untrustworthy and dishonest when discussing steroids.
Everything else is just window dressing – What about Andy, What about the other 103, What about other people who don’t provide the truth when asked? These people are also wrong but this in no way lessens A-Rod’s culpability or increases his credibility.
Whether or not the drug was bought OTC, that doesn’t change the fact that Alex took it. Since when is ignorance an acceptable defense? If you guys think that Alex injected himself with a substance for 3 years and had no clue what it was or what it was for, then I don’t know what to say.
———-
I don’t think anyone is denying that. But what does it matter? He admitted he took steroids. He didn’t say he had NO clue. He said he knew they weren’t “tic tacs” and that it was called “Boli.” Get the story straight.
“Whether or not the drug was bought OTC, that doesn’t change the fact that Alex took it. Since when is ignorance an acceptable defense? If you guys think that Alex injected himself with a substance for 3 years and had no clue what it was or what it was for, then I don’t know what to say.”
I haven’t read the whole thread so I didn’t know Alex’s knowledge was part of this conversation. I did read someone saying Alex was lying since a “reporter” stated he wasn’t able to buy primobolan OTC in the DR.
i will believe what i want to believe and i certinly grant that you are free to disagree all you want.
i did what arod asked, i took his word from tuesday forward. its friday and i want the garbage off my team.
“All anyone is doing now is justifying. ”
Justifying, my ass. You’re being naive if you’re trying to hang your hat on the fact that some flunky went to the DR and couldn’t get primobolan OTC.
“that doesn’t change the fact that Alex took it. Since when is ignorance an acceptable defense?”
Nobody is defending Alex for taking Steroids.
Fact: A-rod claimed primo was available OTC in the D.R. (aka that it was legal). That is false.
———–
HE BOUGHT IT AT A DRUG STORE OTC! SO DID THE DAILY NEWS! Do you want A-Rod to look through the entire DR Penal Code? Jesus Christ man. If you bought something OTC at a drug store and someone asked you “Is that legal?” What would you say?! “YES! I bought it at a legal drug store!”
This witch hunt is ridiculous. Some of you would have made excellent Nazis!
Like there aren’t pharmacies in the DR who wouldn’t sell the cousin of the superstar Alex Rodriguez some prescription drug without a prescription!
Al,
No need to be rude. Alex said he thought it was an energy supplement. When asked if he felt any difference, he skirted the issue, but made like it had a placebo effect. Did they work or not? If not, why take the risks?
this 2007 thing is a whole different ballgame imo. yes he admitted his usage in 2001-2003. he lied like a rug but nothing can be done about it anyway.
this is different.
there is circumstantial evidence that he used in 2007! and arod has blown all his credibility to its not even worth asking him about because you know for a fact he will just lie some more.
he had a juicer follow him around the majors in 2007!
if this is true i want him off my team.
m-Not only did A-Rod admit using steroids, he gave the name of the drug he bought.
ham fighters -
Last I looked you had the right to want Alex off the team and to believe that the newest story about that trainer means he continued to take steroids.
Get off ham fighters case if he wants to go in that direction. He’s not telling us we have to follow suit.
“m-Not only did A-Rod admit using steroids, he gave the name of the drug he bought.”
And added illegal methamphematimes to the list when he was asked if he took anything else.
he had a juicer follow him around the majors in 2007!
————-
That juicer followed around all the Yanks. What if he gave a workout tip to Jeter? Should we castrate Jeter and send him to Fiji?
“HE BOUGHT IT AT A DRUG STORE OTC! SO DID THE DAILY NEWS! Do you want A-Rod to look through the entire DR Penal Code? Jesus Christ man. If you bought something OTC at a drug store and someone asked you “Is that legal?” What would you say?! “YES! I bought it at a legal drug store!””
Yeah, see how well that would hold up in court.
I know when I am a millionaire baseball player I will be sending my cousin to the D.R. to buy “supplements” that are not available in the U.S., not declare them as they come through customs, and have him – not the team trainer or doctors – inject them in a bathroom stall when no one else is around.
These are all the actions of a person who thinks what he is doing is legal.
#trisha
“Justifying, my ass. You’re being naive if you’re trying to hang your hat on the fact that some flunky went to the DR and couldn’t get primobolan OTC.”
Nope, I’m just saying A-Rod is a liar and has never once volunteered the truth on his steroid abuse. The availability of primo in the DR has no bearing on that, except that A-Rod claimed it was legal, yet all his actions were those of someone doing something they knew was illegal.
And added illegal methamphematimes to the list when he was asked if he took anything else.
———–
uh, amphetamines. not methamphetamines. That would be an ENTIRELY different story.
The juicer also worked with other players on other teams.
“uh, amphetamines. not methamphetamines. That would be an ENTIRELY different story.”
You can tell I’m a hard-core druggie!
Well, they were illegal, whatever they were.
Why do we fans care if players used PEDs? It may be cheating (depends on which year, I guess), but has it cheated us as fans? I don’t think so. It’s not like gambling, which affects the integrity of the outcome of a game. The games are played to win.
Cheating to win has a long history in baseball. Don’t most of us admire the crafty spitballer?
Fact: A-rod claimed primo was available OTC in the D.R. (aka that it was legal). That is false.
Fact-
stating something is a “fact” because you read it in the press is not Attorney like.
there is circumstantial evidence that he used in 2007!
———-
NO THERE ISN’T!!! Having a friend who has pushed steroids is definately not circumstantial evidence.
Also, A-Rod never said Boli was legal in the US. He surely knew it wasn’t. That’s why he went through all the hiding of it in customs, etc. He simply said he thought it was legal in the DR (which makes sense since you can buy it OTC in a pharmacy.)
You guys are drawing unnecessary conclusions. Saying he thought it was legal in the DR is NOT the same as saying there is nothing wrong with it. Point in case: “I knew we weren’t taking tic tacs.” That doesn’t go against what he said about it being legal in the DR. You guys are looking for anything to jump on him. Its like the gestapo.
“NO THERE ISN’T!!! Having a friend who has pushed steroids is definately not circumstantial evidence.”
Well, let’s put it this way. It is SO circumstantial that in a court if law, the case would be lost since any attorney could introduce reasonable doubt into that one. Offer up any reasonable alternative theory, and your case is lost.
Here’s one. While the trainer in question may have done nefarious things in the past, it is also documented that he spent time training athletes. He therefore could have been helping Alex with training.
yes i know and i want to hear that evidence too and if they were using i want them suspended too.
this was 2007, not 6 years ago.
i can accpet people who believe alex, i did for a few days.
and i can accept that some people probably think he was using last month when selena showed up but that it’s okay with them cause everybody else was doing it.
and i can accpet people who comdemn the ped usage but figure we’re stuck with him so we better make lemonade out of these lemons.
i really have no problem with anyone else opinions on the matter.
but to me he is a black mark on the uni and he needs to go.
and it is possible that like seattle and texas before us, we will be better off without him.
and it is possible that like seattle and texas before us, we will be better off without him.
———-
Because you think that if A-Rod leaves the Yankee team ERA will drop a full run, just like in Texas and Seattle? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Say it with me Ham: correlation does not equal causation… correlation does not equal causation.
when that friend is traveling around the country with the player and staying with that player’s cousin in the same hotel as that player, and that cousin has already been exposed as arod’s (former?) ped supplier, this IS circumstantial evidence. and pretty strong c.e. at that.
“Fact: A-rod claimed primo was available OTC in the D.R. (aka that it was legal). That is false.
stating something is a “fact” because you read it in the press is not Attorney like.”
According to [Dr. Pia Veras] the official in charge of the agency which regulates pharmaceutical drugs in the Dominican Republic, Primobolan was not available for legal purchase, over-the-counter or with a prescription in his country between 2001 and 2003.
However, I was not seeking to prove the truth of what A-Rod said. I was seeking merely to show the “fact” that A-Rod made the statement in question. This is the definition of hearsay and you would be right that basing my belief on A-Rod’s word isn’t attorney-like (well, its bad attorney-like, but thats another story).
I was not using that statement to prove the truth of the matter asserted or the contents of the statement, only that he made the statement.
but to me he is a black mark on the uni and he needs to go.
———
That’s fine. Then call for Pettitte to go too, and (retroactively) for Giambi too. Or Sheff when he was on the Yanks.
“This witch hunt is ridiculous. Some of you would have made excellent Nazis!”
you lose phil !
first one that mentions nazis loses.
just kidding. i read that somewhere on the blogosphere.
when that friend is traveling around the country with the player and staying with that player’s cousin in the same hotel as that player, and that cousin has already been exposed as arod’s (former?) ped supplier, this IS circumstantial evidence. and pretty strong c.e. at that.
———
then don’t ever go to law school.
al, it would be a natural assumption that a team with $25M to use on payroll might choose to spend it on pitching.
ham fighters, while I will defend to the death Alex’s right to put this behind him and will not support any further witch hunt by a stultified “press” corps (who probably couldn’t get jobs reporting real news) if something happened that found Arod off the team, I wouldn’t be heartbroken.
But if it doesn’t happen, I am going to believe him and root for him. It makes no sense for me to do otherwise.
“but to me he is a black mark on the uni and he needs to go.”
strike that from the records your honor. racial overtones.
A-rod named the substance, but he said he thought it was a energy supplement. He said it in his opening statement.
He said he and his cousin did it because they were young and stupid.
Like I said, all he’s done is explain away a positive test.
Please don’t jump all over me for having my doubts and expressing my opinion.
i did call for pettitte to go, in fact i called him a liar the day he said he only used once.
as for others, if they used after 2004, i think they are also a black mark on the uni.
when that friend is traveling around the country with the player and staying with that player’s cousin in the same hotel as that player, and that cousin has already been exposed as arod’s (former?) ped supplier, this IS circumstantial evidence. and pretty strong c.e. at that.
————–
But is that what happened in Seattle or Texas? No. So your comparison holds no water.
“when that friend is traveling around the country with the player and staying with that player’s cousin in the same hotel as that player, and that cousin has already been exposed as arod’s (former?) ped supplier, this IS circumstantial evidence. and pretty strong c.e. at that.”
Actually all you have for evidence against the guy, Ham Fighter, is that in 2001 he was stopped at the Canadian Border for carrying a bag that contained steroids and needles. The guy maintained is was Gonzalez’ bag, and they couldn’t prove who the bag belonged to and so no charges were brought.
Is this your only evidence against the guy?
I reason I’m hoping he was telling the truth and nothing more will come out is based on this: Sources said he failed a test in 2003. He didn’t just tell us he started in 03 or used once ala Andy. He actually opened up a much broader scope stating he used from 01-03.
The other thing he should have learned from this is that unless you are stupid, which I guess he is, that everything will come out eventually. Somebody will talk.
If he told the truth he should be as free and easy as ever.
m
What is your opinion?
A-rod named the substance, but he said he thought it was a energy supplement. He said it in his opening statement.
He said he and his cousin did it because they were young and stupid.
Like I said, all he’s done is explain away a positive test.
Please don’t jump all over me for having my doubts and expressing my opinion
———
But he DID admit he used steroids, no? So, all of those other reasons are perhaps him pleading with the fan to believe him. The “young and naive” is simply to represent a clean break from his past in Texas, so that we can believe he “matured” when he came to NY and stopped. It’s not much of an excuse, it’s just that people like Fat Mike, Joel Sherman, Bill Madden, and others look for every opportunity to jump on him.
“Please don’t jump all over me for having my doubts and expressing my opinion.”
m, all I said was that I thought this particular conversation was about whether or not Alex was able to obtain primobolan OTC from the DR. Balboni, I thought, was maintaining since some loser from the Daily News was told that it wasn’t obtainable OTC, all of a sudden we were supposed to believe that. Another version is that you can get anything you want if you have enough money and the right connections. Especially out of the US.
“If he told the truth he should be as free and easy as ever.”
Bingo. No need for us to look for spies behind rocks.
It looks very very bad for A-Rod whether one likes the media or not. It’s not good for the Yanks either. A discovery that he did use the drugs after 2003 will finish him off.
i flat out dont care about his usage in 2001-2003. nothing can be done.
but the players and the owners all got together and promised that this agreement on testing and suspensions and all would clean up the game. everybody agreed to the new rules.
so for me, anybody who gets caught after 2003 deserves to be suspended according to the agreed upon standards. to me that means if you are shown to have used more than 2 times after 2003, you deserve a lifetime ban.
anybody. i dont care who it is.
i believe that he used regularly in 2007. i believe that he used more than 2x.
i believe he deserves a lifetime suspension.
we will see if the evidence, in the end supposts my conclusions.
“In addition to A-Rod, Presinal has worked with some of the game’s biggest stars: Juan Gonzalez, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Vladimir Guerrero, Bartolo Colon, Miguel Tejada, Adrian Beltre, Moises Alou, Jose Guillen, Ervin Santana, Ruben Sierra, Francisco Cordero, Jose Mesa and Juan Guzman, among others.
At the time of the Toronto incident, an emotional Presinal denied any association with steroids.
“I work with [young players] so they can become superstars. You can see how hard these players work. It’s all clean work. And I always tell these kids that if they have a medical problem, to be responsible. Don’t just talk to any doctor. Make sure you be careful. Don’t get mixed up with any steroids or other stuff.”"
Nice to decide that Arod used steroids based on this “BIG” story from the Daily News. How about this is a total NONSTORY!
Al,
The test said he used a steroid. I didn’t hear it come from Alex.
But anyway, this is not a witchunt just because it’s Alex. It’s a story. A huge story. Same thing would happen if it was Jeter or Pujols under the same circumstances and same inconsistencies.
Look, I’ll cheer for Alex because he’s a Yankee. But he did ask us to judge him from that day forth. He never asked us to stay away from the off-field issues.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ws_-1.html
In response to Steve Balboni’s point above The Daily News ran this yesterday under this Head: “It took 2 minutes and $19 for Daily News to get A-Rod’s drugs in Dominican Republic.” I don’t know that it wasn’t possible to get roids in the DR and despite the statement attributed to the Doctor I don’t think the ESPN report casts a doubt over that portion of A-Rod’s statement.
Not sure if this was mentioned elsewhere above but it does seem relevant. BTW if I were A-Rod’s cousin I’d be just a bit nervous right about now and I’d be camping out in my lawyer’s office. Words like “distribution” and “trafficking” would be keeping me up nights.
I’m going back out to Pete’s clean world now.
“It looks very very bad for A-Rod whether one likes the media or not.”
Uh, why? See I don’t think it looks bad for him at all, let alone “very very bad”. A story that goes back to 2001 that proved nothing, with nothing after that whatsoever about the guy in question?
“A discovery that he did use the drugs after 2003 will finish him off.”
Agree with you there. If it happens, we can talk about it then. Until then, he’s clean and still in the game.
I hate to say it but I have this bad feeling that something will surface eventually. Somebody will talk, and he will be toast.
Remember he fed fuel to Selena Roberts fire with his accusations about her breaking into his house. You think she isn’t on a mission now to watch this guy fall completely.
bill, you know law enforcement is very interested in what happened in 2007. thats why i say evidence including admissions in plea arrangements, are very likely to be coming.
That socialist site known as River Ave Blues would not let me post about A-Rod’s breaking news on the Radio and ESPN. The fact that A-Roid had the father whom lost a son to steroids at his press conference and than lied again has to be discussed. This guy must be suspended. Than we can get back to Yankee baseball. As far as River Ave Blues. We should protest that site. They remove any article that attacks there editors or goes against there beliefs. I am a strong supporter of building within and keeping the kids and not trading them, so they were ok with me. Than when they attacked Jeter and defended A-Rod before this steroid non sense came about I attacked them and they banned me for a month. Now this new stuff comes out and Im not allowed to talk about A-Rod because they worship him. What a joke. This bi partisan crap is long gone as we see with our current government. Now its gone with Blogs except this one. Time to create my own sh#$y blog and let everyone speak there mind. Enough with this socialist crap!
As a follow-up, I’m not saying it wasn’t easily obtainable in the DR – I am sure it was.
I am just taking issue with A-Rod’s claim that because it was OTC it was legal. It wasn’t.
If Arod didn’t admit to using – I could see the media digging for holes in his story. BUT…
He admitted. He’s out. It’s like coming out of the closet.
Once you are out, you can’t go back in.
The media is trying to show that he’s a liar. Ok, fine.
What if he’s a liar?
Maybe he’s a habitual liar. You know, someone who can NEVER tell the truth about anything. That’s actually good. Why?
That means when he admitted to using in 2001-2003 – it *can’t be true*! The man’s a habitual liar!
“I am just taking issue with A-Rod’s claim that because it was OTC it was legal. It wasn’t.”
Ahso.
Why was/is Arod even associating with Presinal? Is he really that stupid?
No other trainer who is clean is available? What a joke.
the news article says that arod was directly warned to stay away from the guy.
instead he has him follow him around the country and stay with his ped supplier cousin, and keeps him out of sight.
what is a logical person to conclude from this?
Steve
I just got back.
“I am just taking issue with A-Rod’s claim that because it was OTC it was legal.”
Objection. Putting words in the mouth of the defendant. Seriously, I do not remember that at all. Here’s what I remember.
“Going back to 2001, my cousin started telling me about a substance that you could purchased over the counter in the DR [Dominican Republic]. In the streets, it’s known as ‘boli’ or ‘bole.’ It was his understanding that it would give me a dramatic energy boost and [was] otherwise harmless.”
“what is a logical person to conclude from this?”
That Arod is an independent entity who does whatever the hell he wants to do? That Arod is an idiot? That Arod doesn’t listen to what other people say?
Lots of explanations. It’s a pretty big jump, though, to conclude that Arod unequivocally is using steroids.
See here’s what’s dangerous about running with a story that is 7 years old. I haven’t seen anything that indicates that this man ever dealt in steroids. Usually if someone is doing that you are going to see at least something that indicates that other than carrying a bag allegedly belonging to a player, he has done something.
There’s nothing. They say MLB has continued to monitor this guy. There’s nothing.
So based on that I would have a real hard time concluding much.
trisha you know that is a regular practice by the police when they find packages with illegal substances they let them go through and find out who picks them up. it is not proof but it is certainly considered damning evidence that the person who shows up to claim the merchandise is the person to whom it belongs.
this is what the police did in this case and guess who showed up?
“Presinal was traveling with the Cleveland Indians, where he was Gonzalez’s personal trainer at the time. ”
…
“The seizure report said Presinal claimed the bag and everything in it belonged to Gonzalez, then an outfielder for the Indians and later a teammate of Rodriguez’s in Texas.
Agents questioned both men for four hours before deciding they didn’t have enough evidence to link the bag to either of them. Gonzalez and Presinal were allowed to go free, and the bag was confiscated.”
Well since we know that Gonzalez is a reported user, why wouldn’t the bag belong to him?
I would love to read what Gonzalez’s story was at the time.
Ham, here’s the best I can tell you. Any suspicions I may have are just that, suspicions. Since there is no smoking gun, I refuse to take part in the press’s witch hunt.
If we find out in the future that he was lying, so be it. But for now, I’m behind the guy. Nowhere else I can be without turning into one of those losers whose life mission it is to try to rake muck. That would be the lesser members of the press. I’m not gonnna do it.
The Yanks were behind Arod the 1st time to come out and tell the truth. If he lied about anything he said or anything else comes out…he is on his own. At this point I fully expect Selena’s book 2 have more info in it that will hurt him and or show that he lied. If he lied about something at the conference or didn’t get the whole truth out about how much he was using…Cashman and the organization will be absolutely furious!! It becomes even more of a soap opera because you know that the media is trying to find whatever info they can. I wish that same media would do a “profile” on the Sox and try to find out some of those 103 names…that would be exciting.
I find it laughable that Alex (and even Jason and Andy) are seen as the only players who have made the Yankees look bad. The dynasty team has steroids users on them. Tainted long before now.
i think it doesnt matter if the bag belonged to gonzo or to the trainer. the fact that the trainer showed up to claim the bag indicates either it was his or gonzo’s, in which case why would gonzo send his personal trainer to go get it for him?
it stands to reason that if it wasnt his, he knew what was in it.
also the league warned players to stay away from this guy and yet he was arod’s cousin’s roommate for most of the year?
“what is a logical person to conclude from this?”
it’s possible mlb is monitoring this guy because they are biased and he is dominican and doesn’t speak english.
we generally do have a bunch of white guys chasing around the people of color .
i’m fairly knowledgeable about healthy natural supplements and totally against the idea of using steroids, and with this said, the dominican trainer looks like he does a lot of things right to me. i’m not saying he hasn’t crossed the line, but he’s also trained some of the best players in the game who haven’t been outed as steroid users.
he has trained the dominican WBC team and that team had blood tests done. he’s got things like that on his side.
these guys knew when the wbc tests were coming
dick pound said knowing that makes the testing program an intelligence test. only a complete idiot is going to be caught when there is only one test and the know when it is.
Here’s another way to look at this. I am your personal trainer. Not your priest, not your mother, not your lover. You decide you are going to take steroids. You are a major league ball player. That’s on you baby. I might caution you against it. Nothing says I am your supplier.
You are a major league player. I’m from a country with is economically depressed. You pay me a lot of money. I do what you say and not vice versa. I am your personal trainer and travel around with you. You are a major league player. Your bag shows up, I go and get it and bring it to you. You want me to inject you with steroids? Bring it on.
That in and of itself does not indicate that I am a pusher nor does it indicate that I do anything other than what you ask me to.
You cannot hang a guy based on that. And here is a major P.S. If that guy was doing ANYTHING illegal in terms of procurement, he’d be gone long before now. And if he WAS doing anything illegal in terms of procurement, after his stint with almost becoming a felon in the US, he likely would have changed his ways.
I am not ready to make any assumption based on the asinine story, now 8 years old, printed by the vaunted New York Daily News, home to vaunted George King.
Uh, no.
not as plausible as the guy who left the bag full of drugs is probably the guy who comes to pick it up.
sorry i put no faith in the wbc testing b/c it is completly avoidable
as for mlb’s tesing i dont think it detects whatever these guys are using now.
so the passed tests dont do it for me
Is there any way to filter out Ham Fighters comments? It sucks having to read each persons name before reading the comment just to check for credibility/sanity.
“not as plausible as the guy who left the bag full of drugs is probably the guy who comes to pick it up.”
Uh, no. I’m from the DR, you’re a star. Tell me to wash your dirty socks I’ll do it. I’ll go get the bag that has drugs in it.
I’m not saying he didn’t know there were drugs in it. I’m saying that I’m not buying he’s the supplier. So therefore I don’t give a rat’s patootie beyond that. MLB had a firm handle on suppliers (see Radomski and MacNamee). If this guy was supplying they’d have known about it.
Spies behind a rock.
Here’s another thing. Even if Arod did anything wrong beyond 2003, his 5 million handlers told him that once he had his little press conference (I hate when people say “presser”) they told him that if there was anything that could be tracked to him after 2003, he better find a way to talk about it.
I’m on the belief that there is nothing that will be linked to Arod beyond 2003.
I am especially loathe to trash the reputation of someone who in 2001 went to get a bag for a player and has nothing else on him before or after.
You do it if you want.
trisha -
ARod admitted to using Ripped Fuel which is NOW illegal. At the time he admitted to using it, it was sold OTC at GNC and used by tons of athletes. It was NOT illegal at the time he admitted to using it. HUGE distinction.
Ham Fighters is obviously a troll.
if the bag was gonzo’s he knew what was in it, he wasnt going to let the equipment people (whos job it is) go get the bag, he’s going to send someone who he can trust to go get it so the others dont find out whats in it.
“if the bag was gonzo’s he knew what was in it, he wasnt going to let the equipment people (whos job it is) go get the bag, he’s going to send someone who he can trust to go get it so the others dont find out whats in it.”
Correct. I guess I don’t understand your point.
my point is that is stands to reason that the steroids and syringes in the bag either belonged to the trainer, who later turns up as arod’s cousin’s road-roomie in 2007, or they belonged to gozalez, and the trainer knew what was in the bag. if he knew what was in the bag, then mlb was right to ban him from clubhouses and warn arod and others not to be hanging around with him.
so why did arod pay for him to follow him around the country in 2007?
“or they belonged to gozalez, and the trainer knew what was in the bag. if he knew what was in the bag, then mlb was right to ban him from clubhouses and warn arod and others not to be hanging around with him.”
The trainer knew what was in the bag. BFD. As long as he didn’t supply the stuff I personally don’t care. I don’t believe he supplied the stuff. If he did, he likely had brain enough not to go near anything after that since his milk and honey were in the US.
I’m not worried that he palled around with Arod. As others pointed out, the fact that he was the trainer to the WBC and other entire leagues is good enough for me.
Then players who knew others were using steroids should be banned from baseball too.
Ham, you can imagine anything you want. Your imagination may turn out to be correct. But unless and until it does, Arod has done nothing wrong, nor has the trainer.
Again, I am behind Arod. If I find out I have reason not to be, I won’t be. I respect each fan doing whatever he or she has to do.
yeah, trisha, i totally hear you i think we all have to just accept a wide range of thoughts about this constantly developing story.
in the end, i think we all want what we think is best for the club.
Ham,
I can’t believe you called this link to the trainer a bigger story than the positive test. What a stupid statement. Great job turning into a sensationalist like the main stream media idiots out there. Get a grip man. No way that is a bigger story than the positive test. It proves absolutely nothing unlike the positive test.
are you saying that the possibility of his using in 2007, where penalties up to and including a lifetime ban apply to that usage, isnt a bigger story than a failed test in 2003, for which no disciplinary action is applicable?
Yeah, very much so. Actuality is always a much bigger story than possibility in my book. Always.
ok i hear you. it just seems that in this situation, whatever seems like the worst way it can go will turn out to be exactly the way things turn out.
another thing about the 2007 situation is that the statute of limitations hasnt run out on anything so if there is a paper trail to the cousin or his roommie, there is a very good chance of investigations and prosecutions.
the 2003 stuff in the end, you knew that stuff wasnt going to affect him playing for the yankees this year.
this 2007 stuff threatens that.
Ham Fighters,
You are right, we are all Yankee fans and we want what’s best for the team.
Right now there is no way that getting rid of ARod is good for the team.
He is still one of the best players in baseball. If he goes, we don’t have a third baseman. Any replacement would pale in comparison and could keep us out of the playoffs.
As you’ve said, trading him would require eating unheard-of amounts of salary, easily over $100 million, probably a lot more. (And that’s assuming he’d waive his no-trade clause without requiring even more compensation.) His contract is even more of a monstrosity now because much of it is based on ARod’s image as a “clean” contender for the HR throne. No one wants ARod for nine years now.
So you have to ask, why would the Yankees eat $150, 175, 200 million of salary for one of the best players in baseball to get rid of him?
I understand how you feel, but the “black mark” argument just doesn’t cut it. We all know the game is full of steroid cheaters. I doubt there is a team in baseball that doesn’t have a player who violated MLB’s drug policy at some point. Why should the Yankees have to pay that kind of money and lose that kind of talent because they signed one such cheater? Why must the Yankees be the most righteous team in baseball when it comes to PEDs?
We’re stuck with ARod, as much as any team can be stuck with a perennial MVP candidate.
Did anyone hear ESPN 1050 Literally make- up a story and report it as news on Max’s show today.
“A-Rod might be suspended 25-50 games” was reported on a NEWS update
It came directly from the musings/opinion of Marchand-That is NOT NEWS – it is Garbaaage.
Max then admitted it was done on purpose for sensationalism.
ESPN is a Joke!!!!!!!!
you may be right, we may be stuck with him. but i would definitly be looking into who wants him and what they’d be willing to pay for him. and if he doesnt approve of it (without any compensation) i would tell him hell be benched. if he wants to call my bluff, he can sit with marbury till he changes his mind.
ham,
nobody is going to take your rants seriously if you can’t express them like a normal human being. mel (m) has doubts about Alex but she is able to present them in a civil way.
you are approaching “troll” status, IMO.
hate to say this, but alex is a loser. however he’s our loser, so it’s around 10 more years of it. he may perform well, who knows.
Ham -
Something to think about here, if you’re still checking this post, this ARod to the trainer connection is much like the Obama/Ayers connection that was publicized before the election. Some people were claiming Obama was a terrorist sympathizer just because he knew Ayers and had conversations with him. Let’s not jump to those same types of conclusions about Alex just because he knows the trainer and has worked with him.
Doesn’t Arod have a no trade clause? And if he doesn’t, no team can afford to pay him and the Yankees will not pick any of his salary.
Arod, for better or worse, will be a Yankee for the duration of his bloated contract.
I thought the issue that has folks spun up and all the sphincters over at ESPN in a knot was that A-Rod was supposedly lying about where he or his cousin obtained the juice. The News story seemed to resolve that issue in A-Rod’s favor: it clearly is possible to obtain those drugs over the counter in the DR.
Now the question seems to be whether or not A-Eod’s had knowledge that possession of the substance(s) he ingested was illegal. Last time I looked knowledge of illegality when in knowing possession of a controlled substance without a prescription is irrelevant. I could be wrong but I’m not sure I heard A-rod say that his knowledge concerning the legal nature of the substance he ingested was a relevant question. I think what A-Rod was saying is that at the time he used them he didn’t realize they were steroids and therefore he never formed the intent to posses steroids and not that although he knew they were steroids because they were obtained legally elsewhere that his possession of them was not violative of any law. Whether or not one believes that story is a different question.
Ham Fighters,
Even if you did find a trade scenario for ARod (which is impossible without the Yankees eating obscene amounts of money, thus making it an absurd exercise to begin with), you’re saying we should bench him if he doesn’t agree to it?
Please.
Who is our third baseman then?
If your answer is “it doesn’t matter,” then your hatred of ARod transcends your interest in baseball as a game.
The Knicks benched Marbury because he made his team worse. There is no conceivable way ARod makes his team worse. To the contrary, he makes the Yankees many times better than they would be without him. We should be taking this for granted, not discussing ARod like he’s Jeff Karstens and can be cast away without a second thought.
You read like ARod ran over your dog, or at least injected it with PEDs.