Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 23, 2009 
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Mark Melancon looked sharp yesterday in batting practice and impressed Jorge Posada.
The Yankees will probably start the season with seven relievers. It’s safe to say that three of them will be:
Mariano Rivera
Damaso Marte
Brian Bruney
There also figures to be a long reliever. The two leading candidates are:
Alfredo Aceves
Dan Giese
That leaves three spots open. Based on major-league experience, the three leading candidates are:
Edwar Ramirez
Dave Robertson
Jose Veras
But already Edwar has a sore shoulder. And while Veras and Robertson did some good things last season, they shouldn’t be locks by any means. These guys could get in the mix:
Jonathan Albaladejo
Mark Melancon
Humberto Sanchez
Phil Coke (unless he becomes a starter)
Then you have minor-league relievers who likely need more time. These guys could play their way into a spot later in the season:
Steven Jackson
J.B. Cox
Anthony Claggett
Kanekoa Texeira
Finally you have a group of minor-league starters who could be converted into fast-track relievers at some point this season depending on needs and how they pitch:
Michael Dunn
Eric Hacker
George Kontos
Christian Garcia
That’s 20 names and that’s without considering players not in camp who could emerge. I think the Yankees would like to start Melancon in AAA. But if things break right, he does have a shot to start the year with the team.
I am very pleased with the depth of the bullpen. And you know that Cashman will be on the lookout to pickup others who may be cut from other teams.
Can’t wait for the firt game.
I’m pleased with our pitching depth, but concerned about the dearth of position prospects. While I like Bret Gardiner, realistically does he stack up well against players like Vernon Wells, B.J. Upton and Adam Jones? Outside of Gardiner where are the new faces likely to make the squad. If we bring Cervelli North it will likely be as a temporary third catcher. We have only career minor leaguers and major league retreads for infield backup and our outfield is weak when comprised of Johnny ( looks like Jesus, throws like Mary) Damon, Gardiner/Melky ( ooh ,I’m real scared) and Nady/ Swisher. Where have you gone, Austin Jackson? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Nice job, Pete.
You summed up the bullpen situation very well and why those “old guard” folks in the media (Madden, King, Sherman, and Klapisch) are completely out of touch with what is actually going on with this team.
Case in point…Pete Abe, Kepner, Feinsand, Rod Boone, Bryan Hoch, and Pete Caldera all wrote stories focusing on Mark Melancon today and his extremely bright future as a guy who will make an impact this season in that Yankee pen.
By contrast, Bill Madden wrote a piece of his own today focused entirely on the 8th inning role this season and never mentioned Melancon’s name once. Of course, he did mention Joba’s name.
This just sums up the stark contrast between the beat writers who know what they’re talking about and the “old guard” writers who are completely clueless to what is actually happening on the field.
I really hope Coke makes the roster as a reliever.
Minor clarification. Dunn has started in the minors but halfway through last year they converted him back to a reliever. He is slated to be a left handed reliever. He is a converted outfielder so his development is a little behind. He is on the 40 man roster so he may get a chance later this year to be a lefty out of the pen. Hard thrower with a good slider.
I really think that our bullpen is our strongest point coming into this season. Good bullpens are generally a mix of a few solid veterans and a bunch of young, fresh, live arms. We have both. On top of it, we have the depth to rotate guys who are struggling in and out of Scranton. Add the fact that we should have much more stability from the starting rotation and think there is a chance this becomes the number one bullpen in the AL this year.
Edwar needs to go. Sorry.
I will never get over the grand slam to Mark Teix Edwar gave up…. Pete 20 degrees on my way to work.. 13 days until I arrive at Big Stein
If Mark Melancon continues to impress in his exhibition apperarances then he can’t be denied.
Certain pitchers need to be looking over their shoulders.
I know that sometimes the readers of this blog come up with some very unrealistic and comical trade ideas, but I’m just wondering…
What do you think it would take to pry Curtis Granderson away from the Tigers?
He would be a mega-star in New York.
contact DET and see what they would want for Curtis Granderson
John in Ohio
wise men think alike
Joeman….very weird
Very Excited for the season to start with a new and improved rotation and an awesome bullpen to go with it. You are doing a great job with your posts Pete I love your coverage. I have one question though and its about A.J. Burnett have you spoken to him about his injury problem and what does Jorge have to say about his stuff ?
I’m pretty pissed off at Edwar Ramirez and I’m surprised this hasn’t gotten more play. He’s quoted as saying he felt this shoulder soreness late last year……..Sheesh, and so he just decided not to say anything about it until now? Did he not think about his team in all this? I thought we got rid of Pavano when he went to the Indians. I hope he gets healthy and then doesn’t make the team out of camp
I thought Granderson recently signed a long-term deal in Detroit. Or am I thinking of someone else?
Yup – Last season he signed a 5-year contract with Detroit. They love him there. I remember hearing him interviewed on a radio show. What a class guy. I thought at the time, wouldn’t it be nice if the Yankees could somehow get him. Then he signed that contract. I wouldn’t think he’d be available for anything.
Okay fess up who wrote this comment in Maddens article?
Viperstrike Feb 23, 2009 3:41:05 AM Report Offensive Post
This is why Bill Madden is so unbelievably clueless. Nobody talks about Bruney being the heir apparent to Rivera. NOBODY. The guy most talked about to be Rivera’s successor is Mark Melancon. And the 8th inning role this season is not going to be all on Bruney – it’s going to be an assortment of arms such as Bruney, Marte, Melancon, and Veras. It’s about DEPTH – not just one guy. The informed beat writers have pieces today on Mark Melancon and Madden is so clueless about the 8th inning role that the kid is not even mentioned in this piece. This is why the other beat writers understand what is really going on with the ball club and Madden is trying to figure out how to open the salt shaker.
I think that the Tigers would have to be blown away to trade Granderson. He’d be a nice addition though…
Austin Jackson is my Curtis Granderson…
I’m not a big fan of either Ramirez or Veras.
If I had my druthers based on them having a good spring, my relief corps will be the following:
Rivera
Bruney
Marte
Melancon
Robertson
Aceves
Coke
This will give Girardi some flexibility with two lefties in Marte and Coke and a long relief man in Aceves. He also can use Coke for 2-3 innings if necessary such as an extra inning game or in a rain delayed game.
I remember Mr. Max Kellerman saying Bruney can be a closer in the NL , I thought this last year
That’s really an impressive list of names.
When I think of previous years, you’d see someone warming in the bullpen and your heart would sink, because you’d not know what would happen. Krazy Kyle, Scott Proctor etc…
Cashman’s done a fantastic job in getting one of the best bullpen’s around. Not to mention potential starters in some of them too.
Next step is to build the position players in the minors.
Good summary of the bullpen Pete.
I think that Albaladejo would be ahead of Robertson. He pitched in the majors with the Nationals before he was a Yankee. He also threw well last year before going down with the arm injury. He has a bit more experience than Robertson and has shown better results in his limited time.
Honestly though its really a toss-up after you get past Rivera, Marte and Bruney.
I think the bullpen will end up being: Rivera, Marte, Bruney, Veras, Ramirez, Albaladejo, Giese
I would prefer to have Melancon and Coke in there but I understand that the Yanks might want them to have more time in AAA.
Many of the Yankees beat writers and the minor league coaches in the Yankee system said that they wouldn’t be surprised at all if Eric Hacker gets a spot on the major league team as a reliever out of spring training. Based on what I’ve heard he’s a hard thrower, and can take the pressure. As far as Melancan, if he plays a good spring training I’d give him the spot as a reliever, not as the 8th inning guy (because I’d want to get a nice amount of innings from him) but as one of the 6th-7th inning guys. Good Luck to both of them. Have a great day. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Rivera
Bruney
Marte
Melancon
Robertson
Aceves
Coke
This would be my bull-pen too. If I had to decide.
Yankee fans can breathe a sigh of relief with the news that Garrett Anderson signed with the Atlanta Braves.
For years as a member of the Angels he absolutely murdered Yankee pitching. No way was ever found to get him out.
“Yankee fans can breathe a sigh of relief with the news that Garrett Anderson signed with the Atlanta Braves.”
Except that the Yanks play the Braves this year, but only 3 games. And, the Angels have Howie Kendrick as their DYK-Designated Yankee Killer. What is he, like .800 career BA against Yankee pitching?
Mark in Tampa and Glenn
Not to mention Chone Figgans, He kills us. I wish we could trade for him.
There is some going to be some good depth and versatility in the Yankees ‘pen this year.
As a group last season they threw over 540 innings. Only Texas’, Pittsburghs’, Atlanta’s, San Diego, and Washington’s bullpens threw more-and those teams were awful.
Edwar has a sore shoulder already?? That’s just great.
Fortunately, we do seem to have some decent depth in the bullpen. I really hope Bruney has the Right Stuff to be our #8 man. I know Melancon has the potential to be huge for us one day, but I always thought Bruney has excellent stuff.
Jose Veras will be in the pen.and he should be
That’s a great review of the relief pitching situation, Pete. I agree 100% with you, including the part about Melancon. But before the season is halfway over, I am sure Melancon will play himself onto the MLB roster. That guy is already too good for AAA ball.
My guess is that either Ramirez or Robertson have the most shaky spots on the roster. And I’d prefer to see Coke stay as a lefty out of the bullpen who can go 2 innings. Let Aceves back up Joba.
The Yankees have a ‘seriously good’ relief staff. And if one person fails, there are several talented arms that can replace him. Tremendous.
Figgins’ career triple-slash against the Yankees isn’t particularly out of line with his normal numbers, and isn’t that scary. Kendrick has murdered us, but it’s a 91 PA sample. Anderson is old and over the hill. I’d love to face him every day.
Pete, I know you’re just reporting what the Yankees are likely to do and not giving your opinion on what they should do, but why are teams obsessed with carrying such large bullpens? A closer, two set-up guys, a long reliever, and two other guys who are completely fungible and can be rotated in and out of Scranton to be kept fresh. Especially given that they’ll likely need to carry three catchers until they know Posada’s good, why would you limit yourself with twelve pitchers? That leaves you four bench players, half of whom are catchers. If the losers of the Melky/Gardner and Swisher/Nady battles are also kept on the bench, there’s no utility infielder. Something’s not adding up.
That’s a really great summary of a bullpen which looks to be somewhat of a strength, although quite young. The only change I’d make is I’d like to see Albaladejo in long relief instead of either Giese or Aceves.
Unless there are many injuries and failures in the bullpen, there is no sound reason to waste an option year on Melancon. He’d be better off learning and getting the feel of closing in Scranton. NYY has plenty without rushing him to replace a pitcher. NYY has some great arms that are out of options and need to be brought up first. Right behind this group of relief itchers is another wave coming fast that includes right hander Jonathan Ortiz. Great changeup that rivals anything Trevor Hoffman had plus a better fastball and curve.
Thanks Pete
Options are always good. People debate strength of bench but the Yankees now and in the future do seem to have strength of arms.
With the current economic situation in the game, when outfielders and middle infielders are geting $5M and under, pitching depth from within is where you can save money or improve a team through trades in a meaningful way.
Albaladejo and Coke could (should?) be used as multi- innings relief pitchers.
-Rivera
-Bruney
-Marte
-Veras
-Albaladejo
-Coke
-Aceves (long)
If Veras struggles with his command, I could see him replaced by M.M.
While it was only winter league games, Jonathan Albaladejo had a good winter. Furthermore, he converted close to 100% of his save opportunities, ending up with close to 20 saves. Someone to consider for late & critical situations.
The good news is the bullpen is not etched in stone. We have live arms to plug injuries and ineffectiveness. Can’t go wrong with who they choose. But rather than reinvent the wheel, I’d go with the guys I listed.
Vs yankee pitching.
Kendrick
44AB .432 .479 .568 1.047
Figgans
90AB.378 .429 .444 .873
No wonder we cant beat them.
IMO Figgans would be a perfect fit for the Yankees. The Angels are looking for more playing time for Wood and Figgans is really playing out of position at 3b. He’s a FA next year.
I agree with M.
-Rivera
-Bruney
-Marte
-Veras
-Albaladejo
-Coke
-Aceves (long)
I think that is the pen when the season starts.
Ramirez is no big loss. The reason the Yankees liked him in the pen is becuase he provided a contrast to all the hard throwers they had in the pen. His best pitch is the change up, but hitters have adjusted to it. For him to be successful, he really needs to develop a cutter, especially to combat lefties. Hopefully, Mariano is working with him on that.
Ramirez is no big loss. The reason the Yankees liked him in the pen is becuase he provided a contrast to all the hard throwers they had in the pen. His best pitch is the change up, but hitters have adjusted to it. For him to be successful, he really needs to develop a cutter, especially to combat lefties. Hopefully, Mariano is working with him on that.
Chone Figgins carries a career 96 OPS+ (although his OBP has been 6% above the park-adjusted league average), has only break-even value in the stolen base department, and is only above average with the glove at one position, third base, where his bat doesn’t play and we kind of have this guy, Alex. Been in the news recently, maybe you heard of him?
Tex,
You’re my new BFF.
At least we’ll get 3 of the 7 correct.
We were talking about the bullpen last night and I gave a nod to Mariano for helping the young pitchers with their confidence.
So no matter who goes in, they’ll benefit from Mo’s presence. I think it really helped them.
And who would’ve thought that Bruney would’ve morphed into a leader? He arrived young and angry.
I agree most anyone we put there can be a positive, but i think that Albaladejo > Robertson right now. Aceves > Giese, and I like the idea of two lefties in the pen (coke). Melancon will be there quick enough.
It’s a nice change of pace to have a deep bullpen built from within. I like what I am hearing about MM, can’t wait for the season to start.
this bullpen is way under-rated…even more than Boston’s is over-rated.
Kevin
Don’t be snarky. He has also played 244 games at CF.
He’s a better CF, and a Better back-up infielder then we currently have. He could be our lead-off hitter when damon sits. He plays every positon in the infield.
Take your head out of your (stat page) and maybe you could see the big picture. Like I said a perfect fit.
Maybe Edwar can beat out the squirrel for mascot if he doesn’t make the team.
The Syracuse women’s lacrosse team is here at the SFO airport for those of you scoring at home. They all look cranky, but it’s pretty early. I probably look cranky too.
Looks like we have great bullpen depth. Awesome. I’m pumped.
The best guys out of ST make the BP…not true! Melancon and one of Giese, Albaladejo, Scanchez and even Coke, Aceves may not go north with the team. We have room for 7 guys, just about everyone has a very good BP posted here. The differences of opinion is relatively small and understandable…we have about 12/15 arms to choose from, how can we go wrong?
Long reliever? a waste of a bullpen spot.. Giese and Aceves to me dont have the stuff like the rest of the guys you mentioned?
The Bullpen should be:
Mo
Melancon
Veras
Marte
Bruney
Ramirez
Robertson
# Whitey Fraud, Han Ram, Betsy – you guys aren’t happy w/ Edwar Ramirez…
Well, I want to say a few things in support of Edwar:
Good ERA, great K & H statistics. For the season-
3.90 ERA, 55 G, 55.1 IP, 44 H, 24 ER, 63 SO
0 runs allowed in 45 of the 55 games.
Only 3 really bad games. Remove them from the stats, the remaining stats are:
1.99 ERA, 52 G, 54.1 IP, 37 H, 12 ER, 61 SO
… pretty damn good!!
On the negative side 7 HR, 3 blown saves;
and 3 those really bad games (Jun 3 vs TOR, Aug 3 vs LAA, Aug 9 @ LAA)
1 IP, 7 H, 13 R, 12 ER, 2 HR, 5 BB
Tarheelyank, Figgins hasn’t played center since ’06, and he’s never been particularly good at it. Versatility is nice, but it doesn’t make up for being below-average offensively and defensively. Unless you want to throw starter money at him to be Ryan Freel, and an ego bonus to compensate for him not being an everyday player, it *isn’t* a perfect fit. If Brett Gardner winds up being Chone Figgins with the bat, I’ll be thrilled, but that’s because he’s a good centerfielder. Unless you’re getting plus defense somewhere up the middle along with it, Figgins’ bat doesn’t play in a contender’s lineup.
“Based on major-league experience, the three leading candidates are:
Edwar Ramirez
Dave Robertson
Jose Veras”
Hmmm. Robertson has pitched 30 major league innings. Albaladejo has pitched 28. So technically you are correct, but I doubt that the 2-inning difference in experience is going to be the decisive factor.
Locks excepting injury:
Mariano Rivera
Damaso Marte
Brian Bruney
Major League experience and past performance:
Edwar Ramirez (funky delivery gives a different look and he is effective)
Jose Veras (great stuff but inconsistent)
Jonathan Albaladejo (really good stint in 2008/9 winter ball)
Phil Coke (2nd lefty, long reliever and spot starter all-in-one)
YankFanDave….
Major League experience and past performance:
Edwar Ramirez (funky delivery gives a different look and he is effective)
Jose Veras (great stuff but inconsistent)
Jonathan Albaladejo (really good stint in 2008/9 winter ball)
Phil Coke (2nd lefty, long reliever and spot starter all-in-one)
=======================================
Using Coke for more then two innings is a bad idea. The reason he was good last year is because he was moved to the BP. He throws much harder with better control and command out of the BP then he does as a starter. One or two innings would be the max for him.
The Yanks think he may have turned the corner as far as his starting goes…let’s wait and see how he does as a starter in ST. His best value is as a starter but, he does have value in the BP, he can get L and R handed hitters out. Either way you cut it, he is a very valuable asset to have; as a starter or BP pitcher.
Edwar is as stated above; very good (most of the time) or very bad (not very often).
Doreen
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:34 am
I thought Granderson recently signed a long-term deal in Detroit. Or am I thinking of someone else?
five-year contract is guaranteed at $30.25 million. It includes a $13 million team option for 2013, or a $2 million buyout
Old Ranger…
Read Pete’s last post “Coke to pitch out of the bullpen”, I actually wrote my comment before he added the post. It will be self explanatory.
Prediction! Around the end of the W.S. if not a couple weeks prior, we will actuallly knonw how good the pen is. Should know exactly who performed to expectations and who didn’t. Along with any one who exceeded our wildest dreams. Just saying.
Kevin
Thanks for the civil reply. The reasons I like him so much are the versatility he adds as back-up infielder (2b, ss, 3b), the ability to play all three outfield positions, and his lead-off capability and speed. Granted, he hasn’t played cf in a couple of years, but that’s more because of the Angels situation, not his inability. I will say, that I thought his cf defense was more average, then below average.
When Damon rests, or if he spends any time on the DL, I have no confidence in Gardner or Melky stepping in to the lead-off spot. Offensively, and versatility wise he’s a lot better option than our duo. Bottom line for me is Figgans is a better ballplayer then Gardner or Melky.
One more thing, It’s not necessarily Melky or Gardner’s spot he would have to take. He could be a spot starter, super sub type. Giradi would find him plenty of playing time.
Alfredo Aceves is a monster…most people don’t remember him from last year. He is good enough to be a starter.
“Not to mention Chone Figgans, He kills us. I wish we could trade for him.”
Guys like that have consistently killed us because of our terrible replacement-for-injury pitchers. Hopefully we can stave off the injury this season and prevent guys like that from giving us problems.