No WBC love for the K-Man
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- February
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The WBC is a huge deal in Japan. Reportedly tens of thousands of people showed up to watch their national team practice about 10 days ago. They’ve been getting ready for three weeks and it would hardly be a surprise if they defend their title.
Meanwhile Kei Igawa toils away here for the Yankees, unwanted and unloved. He’ll probably be in the Scranton rotation.
One of the Japanese reporters in Tampa covering Hideki Matsui was asked why Igawa was not considered for the WBC roster. He searched for the right words.
“They think … he is not so good,” the man said.
I would say that about covers it.
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on Wednesday, February 25th, 2009 at 9:26 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Ahh, but he gets the great honor of wearing the legendary Yankee pinstripes! Or something.
ha-ha. Thats pretty funny.
Weren’t the Yankees trying to work something out? Sell him back to Japan. I say this in all seriousness. I thought I heard something along those lines.
Haha, Hideki Matsui is so eloquent!
CanoCabrera
Re-read it, a Japanese reporter said it!
srsi
from last thread:
Jeter – in my opinion – is the only one who will get a monument – retired numbers and plaques is a different discussion
If that wasn’t so sad, it would be funny.
One of the Japanese reporters in Tampa covering Hideki Matsui was asked why Igawa was not considered for the WBC roster. He searched for the right words.
“They think … he is not so good,” the man said.
=============================================
LMAO..sigh
“Re-read it, a Japanese reporter said it!”
Which begs the question – who asked the Japanese reporter?
I think Jeter and Mo have to get monuments. I would say bernie, jorge, and maaaaybe paulie o get honored with plaques or numbers retired.
sOs / GB7
Barkley v Barney one of the funniest skits SNL ever had.
It is much better with original sound – which I can’t find
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkix60xjUC8
Jeter and Rivera aren’t going to get monuments. They aren’t legendary national icons.
Well I may as well start the fire storm that accompanies my supporting an “unpopular” Yankee player! As long as he remains in pinstripes I will support Kei Igawa and hope that he turns things around. The very good thing about Yankee fans is that they will be willing to embrace him if he finds a way to pitch well. In the meantime, I will embrace him because I feel sad for him that he has so little support. I’m not saying that I don’t understand it. Not everyone is willing to stick with someone when they spend a lot of their time at the bottom of the heap. I just tend to find it easy to be loyal by and large.
Pete I was bagging on you for getting on Arod earlier but this is definitely more of what I love from this blog.
Igawa and Pavano jokes can never get old lol.
‘“They think … he is not so good,” the man said.’
Ellie, I haven’t watched SNL in close to ten years. They just haven’t been able to replace that original cast. I do watch the old DVDs, though. I haven’t a clue as to who’s even on there anymore. Nobody could beat Belushi, Curtain, Radner, Morris, Newman, Chase and Akroid. Murphy was close.
LMAO!
how about a vote for worst signing of the last 5 years…
Kei Igawa
Carl Pavano
Jaret Wright
Kyle Farnsworth
Alex Rodriguez (sorry Alex)
did I miss anyone?
The Dodgers have reportedly offered Manny Ramirez a two-year, $45 million offer.
The reported deal would pay Ramirez $25 million in 2009 with a $20 million player option for 2010. The Dodgers are expecting a response from Ramirez’s agent, Scott Boras, on Thursday.
The Original cast is legendary.
Recently the show has been pretty bad – but there were some notable cast members and recurring skits.
Eddie Murphy comes to mind.
“Beisbol has been berry berry good to me”
If I were Igawa I would just end the contract early and head home, why toil away in Scranton while everyone makes fun and disrepects you. It ain’t worth the money.
You realize that the Yanks wouldn’t have made the playoffs in at least two of these years and wouldn’t have gotten past the Twins in 2004. If a few players had shown up against the Red Sox in ‘04 besides Rodriguez, NYY would have won.
Too bad. Selfishly I was hoping that Manny would be forced to sit out the entire season. WEEI was doing an entire show on Manny tonight and pointing out that for no team to want to tender Manny an offer, it obviously indicated that Manny being Manny had finally worn thing.
Did anyone see Devin Harris tonight
42 pts, 6 ast vs Derrick Rose and the Bulls D
re. Monuments – anybody old enough to remember baseballs hit to dead center in the old Yankee stadium that rolled around the monuments? usually led to an inside the park HR.
Jeter – no monument; Rivera – maybe…
“while everyone makes fun and disrepects you. It ain’t worth the money.”
That’s the saddest part of all. You’d hope that someone being a member of a team that you root for would automatically mean that people would have his back…
As Mike Francessa said… if Rod Thorn calls you and asks about one of your players, just hang up the phone.
‘As Mike Francessa said… if Rod Thorn calls you and asks about one of your players, just hang up the phone.’
Forealz
Jerry Reese does it again… locks up Jacobs for 4/$25, 13 mil guaranteed
By the time he’s done
Jeter will have 3000 plus hits – the first Yankee ever to do that
and lead in every other catagory except RBI and HR.
He will have been Poster boy for Baseball for 20 Years
Jeter is a is / was the face of Baseball for 20 years.
AND MR YANKEE.
Mo may be the “best releiver ever”
BUT Jeter Transends the game
“for no team to want to tender Manny an offer, it obviously indicated that Manny being Manny had finally worn thing.”
WEEI is completely in the dark then. They need to just look around at what other players are getting signed for; abreu went from 16mill to what? Orlando hudson who everyone predicted to be in demand everywhere signed about 2 days ago, K-rod certainly didn’t get what he thought he would. Besides the yankees, finding a team that signed anyone for over 15 million a year is pretty hard. Manny not receiving many offers is only testament that very few teams can currently offer, rather better, the contracts offered by the dodgers.
Manny being a yutz has not helped him, but that’s just feeding the boston listeners what they want to hear.
‘Jerry Reese does it again… locks up Jacobs for 4/$25, 13 mil guaranteed’
OT: Wouldn’t it be something Marbury goes to the Celtics, Nets draw the Celtics and drop kicks them out in Rd.1
i don’t understand how some of you people think that jeter will not get a monument. i cannot figure it out as to why some people think this.
Cuban knows nothing about basketball. He couldn’t identify that the Mavericks window was/is basically closed (ever since that choke against Golden State in 07, it’s been downhill). So he traded a young, explosive player for an aging Jason Kidd with diminished skills.
If he didn’t want Harris, he could have traded him for something a heck of a lot better than a 35 yr old Kidd. And that Brook Lopez pick was gold.
As a Knicks fan, I’m jealous lol
Give us the name of that Japanese reporter! No one disrespects our AAA pitcher of the year like that!
We’ll go Selena Roberts on that Matsui follower.
Igawa has lots of supporters.
OK, maybe not a lot, but at least Trisha and Kei’s mom. That’s two. And that not even counting Scranton peeps.
Brandon – If the Nets get in, when 2 guys like VC and Harris with Brook in the paint, they will put a scare into them like the Hawks did.
But Frank will lose them a game or two.
“OT: Wouldn’t it be something Marbury goes to the Celtics, Nets draw the Celtics and drop kicks them out in Rd.1″
I would be willing to bet a boat load of money that isn’t happening.
Jerry Reese should try and steal a guy like Tony Gonzalez from KC… he had a lot of interest earlier in the yr and won’t cost a 1st rounder.
I doubt Reese will want to give up the necessary picks for guys like Boldin, Braylon Edwards, etc.
Jared
I agree
Great player
Great Yankee
Loved
Respected
He Respects the Game
A houshold name all over the baseball speaking world – love him or hate him
Scorpio, $8 million isn’t worth it!? Hah! You must be joking.
Manny will take the offer in a week or so. He hates showing up to ST on time and this way he can sit some of it without taking abuse for it.
Lots of pics up at Yahoo, including Montero and Dunn
tinyurl.com/aksewk
“You realize that the Yanks wouldn’t have made the playoffs in at least two of these years and wouldn’t have gotten past the Twins in 2004. If a few players had shown up against the Red Sox in ‘04 besides Rodriguez, NYY would have won.”
Well said, unfortunately some people prefer to ignore that and focus only on the bad.
Knicks making Howard look like Wilt Chamberlain. Oh well, why are people surprised A-Rod was hanging with his cousin, after all they’re related!
Saw him last year coaching 1B for SWB.
The most expensive AAA first base coach ever.
Pete, I can’t help but think of those grounds keepers in ‘ Major League ‘..translation : “he’s sh***y”.
I think its amazing how good Igawa was in NPB and how bad he has been here.
I can’t comprehend how anyone believes the Yankees won’t someday have a monument for Rivera and Jeter.
Hey can anyone on here help me?
I’m trying to find a box score from today’s game against the blue jays, if anyone knows where to find it please post it and let me know thanks.
James, they articulated it much better than I did. The point is that Orlando Hudson, Bobby Abreu, and the rest are NOT the best right-handed power hitter in the game. And their point is that nobody other than the Dodgers even tried to give him any kind of contract offer, even one he could turn down. His schtick not only wore thin, it really got ugly.
DY –
And in honor of what you said, I will now change my tagline!
i went down to the Japan’s National team practice last week in Miyazaki, Japan. It was NUTS. The stadium (used pretty much only for high school practice and as the spring training facility for the Yomiuri Giants) was jammed packed with 40,000 plus people on a WEEKDAY. I had gone to the previous year for just the Yomiuri Giants spring training, and there was 1000 people tops. People would go nuts at the slightest sight of Matsuzaka, Johjima, or Ichiro. Ichiro had a horrible day at the plate, but you could have sworn every ball he got his bat on was going to be a home run given the crowd reaction. Was really hoping Matsui would have been on the team, but no luck this year.
I am going to unfortunately miss tommorows game
unwanted and unloved?
The guy is a 45 million dollar, triple A pitcher. That is why he isnt pitching for the WBC. Not because the yanks or we think he is NOT so good but because he is actually not good and is so bad that he is being payed about 8 mil per season if you include the posting fee and the yanks are forced to let him pitch for scranton. What a HUGE waste of money? But somehow, none of that was cashmans fault. Im sure someone below will explain how. Just like everything else god forbid cash is blamed for anything that goes on with this team.
GBOOF -
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....b_tormlb_1
No reason to bash the Kei man, he’s going to bring the Scranton Wilkes-Barre Red Barons to championship glory for the second year in a row!
2010-11 Knicks : James– Lee– Bosh
Profit.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3934167
Can anyone explain how ESPN can report on the same topic with two completely different reports. The top video in the report talks about A-Rod’s HR today. The top espn video says “there was a mixture of boo’s, well mostly boo’s, i’m being kind” after his HR today and the second one reports that he received a standing ovation from the yankee fans and as you know, yankee fans probably account for 30-40% of the attendance. It’s amazing on the reporting by espn when it comes to Arod.
“No one disrespects our AAA pitcher of the year like that!”
How soon they forget DY!
Why that keeps coming out “DY” is beyond me!
Okay, let me try that again. DT DT DT DT DT!
So there.
yea rob – so glad the yanks shelled out 45 mil so that kei can help scranton win. The only problem is 99 percent of yankee fans just dont care how well scranton does at any given point as long as the yanks are winning and prospects are developing. Kei is just taking up space in scranton from prospects who could be moving up and taking that spot. SO PLEASE CONTINUE TO BASH KEI AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
‘I would be willing to bet a boat load of money that isn’t happening.’
Ray, you just don’t know the effect Steph has on a team, since 03′ here in NY we know, you’ll know too.
“SO PLEASE CONTINUE TO BASH KEI AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.”
Yes, the Yankees are obviously listening hard to the bashing, hey?
are there not only 3 monuments now? Just Huggins Gehrig and Ruth correct? The rest only have plaques?
I dont know if they would make another monument if they didnt give mantle or dimaggio one. If im correct they only got plaques.
But i could be completely wrong. Anyone know?
THANKS trisha!!!
Brandon,
I know Marbury has caused problems before, but the difference this time I think is that the Celtics will send him packing if he causes problems.
Why that keeps coming out “DY” is beyond me!
Okay, let me try that again. DT DT DT DT DT!
So there.
LMAO…. if only you slipped on the other side of the T key… I would have been a doctor. DR DR DR !
Brandon,
Haven’t you learned? The Celtics are perfect. Nothing can kill their chemistry. Their brotherhood.
gmen21….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.....e_Stadium)
You’re correct, only 3 monuments and the rest are plaques. I should have said in my comment above that I can’t imagine the Yankees not giving Rivera and Jeter a plaque, but I consider that to be an equal to the 3 monuments.
‘I know Marbury has caused problems before, but the difference this time I think is that the Celtics will send him packing if he causes problems.’
No he’d act like a choir boy, but he always does something stupid when your handcuffed. I believe they might play it off for awhile but they won’t cut him, Doc won’t, he’ll try to reach him and fail like coach after coach after coach, after coach etc..have attempted.
TRISH,
Who cares if the yanks arent listening? They couldnt do anything even if they were. i just like to hear people bashing kei. It makes me feel better that people are just as pissed about him as I am.
Wow nevermind, I should have actually read all of the link I posted. Mantle and DiMaggio have monuments too.
“You tell him to hit the damn ball, and hit it when it matters.”
-Hank
LMAO
‘Brandon,
Haven’t you learned? The Celtics are perfect. Nothing can kill their chemistry. Their brotherhood.’
‘Ubuntu’ homie !
m
February 25th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Brandon,
“Haven’t you learned? The Celtics are perfect. Nothing can kill their chemistry. Their brotherhood.”
Now, now m…play nice.
“i just like to hear people bashing kei.”
Isn’t Igawa bashing so 2007? He’s just not…very good, we all know that, so what does ripping on the poor guy accomplish? Not his fault the Yankees were dumb enough to sink $45 million dollars into him. Let him be and lets move on to bigger and better things.
ray,
I’m sorry. But I’m tired of hearing about the Big Three. I suppose if I lived in New England, I wouldn’t mind. But I don’t, so I do!
Otherwise, howya doing?
Pete posted: “That person has since been identified as Sucart.
It is unlikely that Sucart will face any federal drug charges. But MLB could find Rodriguez’s continued association with a drug smuggler somewhat curious. Nick Swisher also was in the vehicle,”
Perhaps, mlb would realize that sucart and arod are not close because sucart is a drug smuggler but because they are cousins. They have done drugs together but they also possibly played together when they were kids. I know I have hung out with my cousin since we were kids. I dont know what is soooo curious about arod’s cousin driving him to the ballpark with swisher. I mean he clearly is not stupid enough to continue to use drugs from sucart now and show up to the park with him afterwards during all of this. And even if arod is that dumb, is swisher also that stupid? Is it curious that swisher was with this guy? I mean they in fact, are not cousins. I really dont think this is all that big of a deal – its no bigger a deal than that BS story about arods association with that former trainer.
Brandon- I agree Marbury is bad for team chemistry you would think a championship team like the Celts would not want to mess with chemistry.
Everyone knows that Kei needs to save his strength to battle Mothra, duh….
I chuckled when Igawa started rockin’ the sun glassess while he was pitching. It was like he wanted to shield his own eyes from the disaster he was making whilst pitching.
Jets cutting Coles and others. Now bring me Bart Scott and a good pick and I’ll be happy
No problem m, I just used your posting as an excuse to say hi.
I’m good and I’m glad that baseball season is coming down the pike.
A bit funny to hear you say you are tired of hearing about the big three…..I think the news about the big three is dwarfed by the constant news about Arod and his cousin, his trainer, his meeting with MLB officials, etc, etc, etc,
I LOVE Hank… that quote was awesome. And so true too.
dave,
The other thread was full of “so what? he’s family!” comments.
That’s just a lame thing to say. How about riding on the bus with the rest of the guys? You know? With your teammates?
It’s not that A-rod said his cousin did things no man should do for their cousin 6 years ago. It’s that it’s been reported that Sucart and Presinal have been traveling with A-rod very recently.
Anyway, it was attention-worthy and totally preventable. But once again, it’s not A-rod’s fault. 18-24 months could be a lot shorter if A-rod just keeps it low-key.
Jesus Christ. Enough with the dumping on Igawa. It’s f’ed up. Dude’s not a goldbricker like Pavano. And I, for one, am not ready to believe he’s an utter bust like Wright or Weaver. He did fine in Triple A last year. Give him another chance.
ray,
Don’t be jealous of the A-rod stuff. It’s not fun. At all.
Marbury is cursed. The evil is strong in that crazy tattooed person.
ARod seemingly doesn’t want this thing to die. He is doing his best to keep this in the news.
Maybe he meant 18-24 months before he finally gets a clue.
Poor Swisher. I hope he doesn’t get dragged into this now.
I understand that baby Gardner was with was toting some “formula.” What’s up with these players and their shady relatives?
m,
Im not saying it was right for arod to ride with this guy and not on a bus or that arod was right for doing this now to make people talk even more. However, the way that pete stated that it was somewhat curious that arod was riding with a drug dealer really hit a cord with me.
One, its his cousin before its a drug dealer and two, what about swisher? Was it just curious that arod was in that car but swish had a legit reason? And is it really all that curious that arods cousin is driving him to a game? I dont agree with arod doing it but i also dont agree with the way pete writes about it. As usual, he puts arod in the worst light. You would think arod does enough himself to write about but the writers in general feel a need to make him look even worse than he already does.
enough of this steriod crap……im excited for tomorrows game!!
but i do agree, poor swish all he wanted was a ride home. lol
cashman is not going to be happy at this. just brings unnecessary negative attention to the team. he should know better. maybe his cousin should wear a mask or something.
The media is going to hound Swish tomorrow
“Did you talk to the cousin, what is he like?”
“Do you feel uncomfortable hanging out with a steroid dealer?”
“Did steroids come up in conversation at all in that car ride?”
“Did you think it was a good idea to get in the car with a shady character like that?”
“What were your impressions of Yuri?”
“Did you notice anything shady about the cousin?”
This news is just like the connection arod had with that trainer that was banned from mlb clubhouses. This was followed by the story saying arod would possibly be suspended for this relationship. But later, the story goes on to say how abut 10 other mlb players have since hung out with him if not more (almost none of whom have been associated with roids) and that this guy was the trainer for the DR team in the WBC in 2006. i MEAN that info should def make it clear that arod did nothing wrong. Driving with his cousin to the game today with nick swisher if the same type of bogus story. Arod piles enough crap on himself that stuff like this is not needed as he already managed to make himself look terrible without much help.
SA you wanna get in da truck
anyones projection on line up tomorrow?
dave,
I don’t know. Did Pete call him a drug dealer? I think he called him a mule and the truth of the matter is that he was a drug smuggler.
And please, dave, look everywhere. It’s all a-rod all the time. Feinsand couldn’t resist. Kepner did write about Gardy & Swish. But the A-rod story and every subplot is all over.
And Pete has been more than fair. It was wide open for him to take shots at A-rod the last 2-3 weeks and he’s really held back. Just a few jokes here and there. He doesn’t hate A-rod. He just calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.
Everyone’s sick of it, but the people who got on Pete today just want people to stop pointing out the bad stuff about a-rod. Maybe a-rod should stop giving them things to talk about.
One thing I did notice, though, is that Alex has a pretty good sense of humor. His one-liners have been hilarious. If he keeps up the self-deprecating humor, stays out of strip clubs, and distances himself from certain things, people will be falling over themselves to forgive and forget.
LOL that’s hilarious – “not so good” is being kind. I think the guy wanted to say that Igawa stinks. I’ve had enough of this guy, so the sooner he shuffles off to Scranton, the better.
Rivera will get a monument, IMO – there is no surer bet.
I fear that Selena Roberts’ book. I think that is the eye of this storm.
This is a witch hunt plain and simple. Of course witch hunts were begun by the ancestors of Red Sox fan.
It’s not Pete’s fault that A-Rod constantly uses bad judgment. Did he really think that him getting into a car with the man who supplied him steroids (family or not) is not a big deal?
ARod hands the media news on a silver platter. Thats why this story will continue to stay afloat. The front page of the papers tomorrow will be about ARod, not the actual game.
SA you wanna get in da truck
=====================
LMAO
Phil,
Barry Bonds is going through a witchhunt.
Alex has the minor inconvenience of being in the papers. Nothing new.
And this isn’t about Alex per se. If it were Jeter, Pujols, or Ortiz that got popped for a positive drug test and they gave the same flimsy story, you’d have the same coverage. It’s a story, when are people going to accept that?
I like to think that Roberts’ will make up stuff purposely just to pile on, but unfortunately, she is too smart for that. She isin’t going to risk all the notoriety she got from breaking this story on a defamation/libel suit which will destroy her credibility.
That means everything in that book will be accurate. She has the entire media in her corner to to pump her up and promote her book. Not one media member has called her out. They are on her side.
A-rod riding with:
Pete=non-story
Jeter=non-story
Cynthia=non-story
Madonna=story
Yuri Sucart=story
Team Bus=non-story
Could ARod be able to prove libel in a court of law if it came to it? I have to figure that this women was trained well and ran this by her lawyers.
In just two more years Igawa can go back to Japan and crawl under the rock where Hideki Irabu lives.
mel,
Bingo. Yet ARod continues associates with people and do things to bring attention to himself. Sometimes I wonder if he likes it, as negative as it may be.
LOL. Dice-K strikes again:
OSAKA, Japan — Boston Red Sox ace Daisuke Matsuzaka struggled through 1 2/3 innings in a tuneup start for the World Baseball Classic, but Japan recovered to defeat Australia 11-2 Wednesday.
Matsuzaka couldn’t find his rhythm and left the game after giving up two runs and five hits while striking out three.
via: espn. Yes. They called him an ace. Where’s his back-to-back 19-win seasons?
If the rotations stay lined up, we match up Burnett against him
and Burnett OWNS the Sox.
Caps,
I think that kind of person’s called a ‘narc’. Told my daughter that’s an undercover cop working narcotics. Sigh. So hard to keep up with the times.
http://mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200902253963213
Get used to this sound, folks.
If only Igawa could be as good as Ian Kennedy.
Well, I can’t get worked up about Alex getting a ride with his cousin…….
Tomorrow is going to be an intersting day, with Phil, Melancon and Bruney set to pitch. I can’t wait to see how Phil looks and how he does – I’m mostly looking at this point for FB command. I’ll tape the game while I’m at work, but I know I can come here for in-game updates….too bad I really should be working instead of checking out this blog!
They chose the wrong guy for the WBC. Igawa wouldn’t have gotten lit up by a bunch of Aussies.
Hey, find that reporter and ask him how Dice-K did today.
m
I don’t find your distinction valid. Bonds has been the victim of a witch hunt, but so has ARod. The problem here is, is that the problem was in baseball for over 20 years while the media just looked the other way, and now there falling all over each other trying to pin it all on ARod. It’s ridiculous. And I’m sorry, but ARod getting in a car with his cousin is not news.
selena moving her book up to opening day makes it imperative that we get off to a fast start. otherwise, this is going to be a disaster.
More Tex – loving this guy more each day
http://www.yesnetwork.com/team.....?oid=36019
I’m sorry – I can’t seem to link to the Tex Quick Cut, but it’s under videos…..and then Multimedia Showcase.
That was nice of A-rod to drive Swisher home. But to be honest, he probably did him a disservice lol Now he has met the cousin and the media will be hounding him to get info about him….
His affiliation to Angel Presinal is more concerning than his relationship with his own cousin.
m,
Pete called him a drug smuggler but it isnt as curious because he is also alex’s cousin. I just think alex is doing a great job making himself look like a fool by lying again in his apology. All these other stories about who alex hangs out with are just ridiculous things the media hangs on when there is not much else to make arod look bad on any given day. I just wish we can focus on baseball not that the games have started moreso than on alex’s associations. I mean it is his cousin afterall. And its not like they did some roids and then, his cousin gave him a ride. If they did something bad, one would think they would be trying to hide their associations. Seeing them in the same car is saying that they are NOT doing anything illegal at this moment.
“This is a witch hunt plain and simple. Of course witch hunts were begun by the ancestors of Red Sox fan.”
I’m not as caught up in him going home with his cousin as I am that he wasn’t taking the bus with his teammates.
I hope this isin’t a common thing… him doing things on his own and feeling he is more important than the rest of the team. If he wants to feel apart of the team, he needs to do everything with the team.
Allowing joba to make 30 starts over 175 to 180 innings during the course of the season is a HUGE mistake. Mainly because that would mean a 80 inning increase from last year which already will likely result in catastrophe if not this season then next and 80 inning increase is just including the regular season. And that leads me to my second point – what about joba starting in the playoffs? Wouldnt he be far more helpful in the playoffs?
So then, we are talking up to 100 plus innings over last years total. Plus, we cannot forget that joba did go down with an injury already last season when converted to a starter. I think we should just let him start for 120 innings and let hughes take over at that point. Aceves can fill in for injuries thereafter along with kennedy and joba could occasionally pitch out of the pen i guess. Then, he can start again in the playoffs which will be helpful and his innings will likely only increase by 50 or 60 innings tops. But what do I know? Im sure guys like liriano and a hundred others were just fluke injuries.
No way is Joba going to make 30 starts this season.
But perhaps this was another attempt to put the “Joba to the pen” crap to rest. They have no intention of switching his role under any circumstances.
Nonetheless, no matter how often they say it – some idiot in the media (George King? Kevin Kernan? Mike Francesa? Bill Madden?) will continue to ask the question.
Haha dave, I’ll go with what the Yanks think on Joba’s innings limit.
Guys like wainwirght and billingsley are fine examples that stretching out joba is doable and not doomed to end in a melt down. Outside liriano, could you share 5 more examples from your list of hundreds?
Pitchers get hurt every year, how much that can be correlated to increased innings is suspect at best.
Also, I’m not sure I read a direct quote of girardi stating 30 starts, or if he was just giving a ballpark figure off the cuff without really thinking. What I did read him say was that he’d pull him after 5 innings to conserve him. Hopefully more people start thinking like nolan ryan in his changes with the rangers system or 20 years from now starting pitchers are going to go 3 innings before turning the ball over.
Omg! Like y wud matsu say that?!
30 starts it likely pushing it. However I see around 25 and a switch to long relief in the playoffs. Joba able to go 2-3 innings in the playoffs is invaluable to this team.
Glenn,
ALL the veterans drive themselves to away spring training games. The starters come out early, and the press goes right down to the clubhouse when the starters come out, so there’s no need to hang around til the end of the game.
Everyone does it, and has always done it. It doesn’t say a thing about ARod except that it’s spring training.
james shields, tim lincecum, cole hamels, jon lester, dan haren; would be names on a list of literally hundreds of pitchers who have been stretched out significantly at some point year to year. It’s practically standard. You could argue joba is injury prone and that’s the problem, but the process, I don’t think so.
James- Very true. I think the Yankees are just ballparking those numbers I see him finishing with around 160-170. Lester also had a huge innings jump.
The Yanks are going to continue being careful with Joba. Btw, they evaluate relief innings differently from starter inning when looking at abuse points for pitchers.
The significant increase in innings is not viewed as overtly affecting the pitcher that season.
The conventional wisdom is how it affect the pitcher the following season.
Carmona had a huge season in 2007 with a major spike in innings and he a lot of issues last season staying healthy.
Again, it’s the following season that you have to watch – not the same season the pitcher endures such an enormous spike in workload.
“The conventional wisdom is how it affect the pitcher the following season.”
To me, the number of pitchers that would not fit into the pile of guys who got hurt the year following a large increase in innings (a ton) would Vastly outnumber the pile of players whose next season injuries could be, with some certainty, linked directly to the increased innings vs just getting injured.
Carmona for example had a left hip strain last year from running to cover first, there is zero chance I’m buying that was due to increased innings
In 2005, annibal sanchez pitched about 130 and 2006, about 200. He missed almost all of 07. In 2004, Chacin pitched about 150 and the next year, 205. He was terrible in 2006 and injured. Carmona jumped up a huge amount of innings from 2006 to 2007 and more than 50 from any previous year.
2008 was a catastrophe as he had a 5.44 era in 120 innings total. Liriano pitched more than 40 more innings than the previous season in 2005 and managed just 121 in 2006. Gorzellany jumped up by over 50 innings in 2007 and has been a disaster since. Gallardo pitched a measly 33 more innings in 2007 and missed almost all of 2008 (its hard to blame that on innings though.)
Kennedy pitched 60 more innings in 2007, and missed part of 2008. Adam loewen increased his workload by 40 plus innings in 2006 and no one has really seen him since. Mcgowan increased his workload over 50 innings in 2007 and suffered an injury in 2008. Eveland increased his workload by about 150 innings and his era went from 2.9 to 4.34 after his first 60 innings or so.
My point of that last post – Joba pitched 100 innings last year. In order to not suffer a catastrophe, 180 innings should not even be in the discussion. In order to avoid injury or setbacks, Joba should be pitching 130 or at most, 140 innings next season. So the yanks can start him every time they need a fifth starter and then, take him out of the rotation after 110 innings and replace him with hughes sticking joba in the pen.
OR joba can pitch every other or every third start with others like aceves filling in the other starts, allowing joba to only pitch 120 innings throughout the season. Either way, joba should still be able to pitch about 15 to 20 innings or 3 starts or so in the playoffs and not fall off the face of the earth in 2010. Not all of those examples above were fluke injuries – that ridiculously long list spanning only three seasons should really speak volumes.
James,
What I’m explaining is the “Verducci 30-inning rule” – not my own opinion.
A pitcher encountering a workload of more than 30-40 IP from the previous season tends to have more issues staying healthy the following season.
It’s not a perfect system by any means – but a lot of execs from around the league are buying into it, Nolan Ryan notwithstanding.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ducci.YAE/
I think that 30 starts is wishful thinking for Joba. He’s not terribly efficient, so he won’t be pitching deep into games. 100 is probably the magic number for him.
They’re not going to ruin the golden goose.
James,
Billingsley increased his total by 53 – not even close to 100. And that was from 2007 to 2008 so the impact of this may not be really seen until next season as has been shown above. Plus, he pitched 160 innings or only 40 less than his total last year in 2006. Wainwright went from 75 to 202 from 2006 to 2007 but in 2005, he pitched 182 innings or only 20 less than his innings in 2007. If joba pitches even close to 180 innings, he will be increasing his highest innings pitched total by over 60 innings. And he pitched that total in 2005 when he pitched 118. That situation isnt comparable to either of the above.
I guess my posts are more directed to a frustration of limiting and babying pitchers vs. case and point Joba. I do think Joba has shown to be injury prone enough to merit watching closely, perhaps not with such kids gloves as has been used up to this point though. Kind of a numbers and sports worlds colliding problem. Torre supposedly thought cashman was becoming to into numbers toward the end of his tenure, I wonder what he would have thought of someone tallying “abuse points” and directing him on how to limit a pitcher via an excel spreadsheet vs what he sees and the player says.
Joba reminds me of Scott Kazmir in terms of efficiency
i dont think 30 starts is wishful thinking, I think it is dumb thinking. They are going to make some problems for him in the future by trying to stretch him that much. We have the pitching where we DONT need to do that. There is no reason. Plus, we need him in the playoffs.
btw, Girardi probably said 30 starts in an attempt to prevent other teams from strategizing around what they think Joba’s limit is.
Joba has only made a dozen major league starts and perhaps only nine starts in which he was allowed to throw at least 90 pitches.
He’s not as efficient as I’d like him to be just yet – but he’ll get better. He’s also a big strikeout pitcher and those guys always throw a lot of pitches.
Give him time. Joba isn’t Superman. He needs to learn how to pitch as well and not simply rely on blowing people away.
Lester had a huge jump last year – that means the effects wont be seen until sometime this season. We have to wait and see on that one.
James, I agree with what you are saying about Joba, except for the “injury prone” biz. Too early in his career to garner that label.
dave, you’re going to have to say their specific injuries for any name you write to be an example.
Fausto hurting his hip running to cover first base I don’t think makes your case very well.
Either way, for every 1 pitcher you can find that had a following year injury (that’s an arm problem linked to the increase) there are going to be more that did not and a percentage of the names you find would, in fairness, have to be reduced by the percentage of pitchers that get hurt during an average year.
I don’t think you have to worry about them stretching out Joba too much.
It would be a sharp contrast to the way they’ve treated him since his arrival. In fact, it would be a major change in philosophy in the way that they treat all of their good young arms.
Too much is invested in these kids to burn them out.
Yea maybe carmona’s injury had nothing to do with innings and of course, there are exceptions like verlander and some others but the overwhelming shear number says to me, that this is NOT just some flukey stuff. I think there is definitely some merit to this which should tell the yanks that anything more than 140 innings for joba next year is a mistake.
“james shields, tim lincecum, cole hamels, jon lester, dan haren”
I’m pretty sure none of those guys had close to 80 innings added on to their previous highest innings output. Check baseballreference and look at their minor and major league innings totals.
80 innings is a big jump. It’s weird that that they were so cautious with him before and now seem to be throwing him into the deep end.
Scott Kazmir is moving into his 5th full season of ML pitching. Alot of young pitchers aren’t efficient their first few starts in the majors.
James – i agree about carmona. It probably didnt have much to do with his innings but look at how many names there are as examples. And thats just from 2005 to 2007. Many others passed 30 inning increase this last season so their impact wouldnt be seen until this season.
I know there are normal injuries but anyone can look at that list and realize that is far more than due to the year in and year out injuries just for pitchers. And some or a lot of these guys did not just have injuries but were wildly ineffective the year after a drastic increase. Their eras skyrocketed or they were sent back to the minors or stunk before an injury after a season in which the jumped out and were extremely effective. That is another telling sign that increasing totals that much is no good. I dont think we should baby joba but we should have a number in mind from the beginning and stick to it. Just stop the starts when he gets to that number.
Dave,
Chill out, dude. There is no chance the Yanks go wild on Joba’s innings.
We’re talking about a franchise that shut him down for a month when he had shoulder tendinitis and didn’t allow him to make another start the rest of the year.
They will not put him under any unnecessary risk.
Ouch! Do not open if you are a Marbury fan. Wicked mean analysis of Marbury (isn’t that the name of some sitcom hick town?) having to face-gasp-reality if he goes to Boston.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/ne.....;type=lgns
When shields pitched 180, he had already pitched 143 a few years before. He never jumped up significantly from his previous highest innings total. Lincecums biggest jump was from 177 in 2007 to 227 last year. So the impact of that would not be seen until next season. Plus, that is already at a high number of innings in 2007. Hamels biggest jump was also last season – 183 to 227. Haren never had a bigger jump than about 40 innings. That is hardly even close to 80. Lester jumped up by about 60 innings but again, it was last season so the impact of that would not be seen until next season likely.
guiseppe,
I am chill – Im not too concerned about all this and I would assume the same thing, I just was a little surprised when pete posted 30 starts and around 175 to 180 innings. I would assume it would be far less. It makes sense if he was just saying that though.
“james shields, tim lincecum, cole hamels, jon lester, dan haren”
I’m pretty sure none of those guys had close to 80 innings added on to their previous highest innings output.”
lincecum had 50 added, shields drops to only 30 added when counting in his minor total but he had nearly an 80 innings jump in the minors, hamels goes off the list but he went from 35 innings in the minors to nearly 180 in a single year, lester jumped about 60, haren jumped around 40 and 60 in two years. I first looked the guys up without account of minor league carry over. But with little effort I could trump any list of injured people (of which I have zero desire to do).
We all agree he’s not going to used wildly
James – You are not considering career highest total but only the year before the jump. Lincecum and haren both had their biggest jumps last season. Both of them were already at a pretty high number to begin with and their arm is already well conditioned to throw a lot of innings over one season unlike these younger guys. Lester also had his bigest jumo this last season so his impact should not have been seen yet, Shields never had his career total jump up all that much – not even a 30 inning increase over his last highest total.
I dont think you can compare guys like haren and hamels both of whom have already pitched a ton of innings in the majors in one season to a guy like joba who has never exceded 100.
I will say that what happens to lester next year will be a big sign because lester falls right into this category of a huge increase in innings and then, relied upon to start the following season. 20009 if a big season fro lester.
Catastrophe? Don’t feet so, davestradomus. Que sera, sera. Don’t trust any innings numbers you hear in February. You can be sure they will be careful with Joba. Nothing is locked in now.
“James – You are not considering career highest total but only the year before the jump”
On purpose too, I can’t buy that theory allows you to skip a year of conditioning/adding to your arm strength, least not seriously.
Either way, I’m beyond bored with this now.
It is completely irrelevant on how many guys you can find whos innings jumped up 30 innings or so without any effect. You need to look at the young guys who are coming off a huge jump of 40 or more innings and see how they perform the following season between 2005 and 2007. You cannot consider jumps from 2007 to 2008 because those effects would not be seen. Further, guys who had already jumped up above 170 innings to 210 or 220 should not really be considered because they already have conditioned their arms to pitch a ton of innings in one season. You talk about guys like lincecum, hamels and haren and all three had their biggest jump between 07 and 08 and all three pitched over 170 innings the season before. Joba is in the 100 to 160 plus type jump and not the 180 to 220 type jump.
yea, well if a pitcher pitches 160 innings in 2006 and 120 in 2007. They should be able to pitch 190 in 2008 and not be considered making a 70 inning jump as they already pitched 160 innings in one season. I dont see how that first year could possibly be discounted. iT SEEMS more like you are skewing the numebers to argue your point – dont let facts get in the way of your argument by all means. I have had enough too. This is a ridiculous argument as we all know or hope the yanks are not dumb enough to throw joba out for 180 innings next year after 100 last year and treating him like a two year old with the joba rules not too long ago.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The 30 inning jump danger sign was only valid until age 25. After that age, innings jumps were not an issue so again the verbiage is over the top about very little, this isn’t nuclear physics.
I believe what makes pettitte such a great signing is that his presence in the rotation allows us to not rely on joba for more innings than we should. Now, the top four are able to be relied upon for at least 180 innings. And i only say 180 and not 200 because they all have some risk attached to them but if all goes well, perhaps, we could even count on the top four for 200 innings. That means we have joba as our fifth starter so he does not need to cover any more than 180 innings.
Add in aceves, hughes and kennedy and joba could easily only be counted on for 120 innings in the regular season with the other three pitching for 60 innings or so in that fifth starter spot. Thus, joba could even pitch 20 in the post season. There is no reason to try to stretch him. So the joba rules this season should be simple – dont pitch him more than 120 innings in the reg season so we can pitch him as much as we need in the post season.
30 innings is far too specific – it should just mean that a big jump at a young age when the pitcher is not yet conditioned to pitch 170 plus innings is not good. the jump could be 40 innings or so as long as it is done in a smart manner. The point of all this is that jobas innings should merely be monitored closely – i dont think joba should pitch no more than 130 innings,
“lincecum had 50 added, shields drops to only 30 added when counting in his minor total but he had nearly an 80 innings jump in the minors, hamels goes off the list but he went from 35 innings in the minors to nearly 180 in a single year, lester jumped about 60, haren jumped around 40 and 60 in two years. I first looked the guys up without account of minor league carry over. But with little effort I could trump any list of injured people (of which I have zero desire to do).”
I’m pretty sure the rule is based off a pitchers previous high. For example, if a pitcher has 100 innings in 2000, then gets hurt after 60 innings in 01, he would still be able to pitch around 140 while following the rule. Also, you need to take their college numbers into account as well.
Nick, is the Pacific as blue as it was in your dreams?
You know it has no memory.
dave, I’m worried that you weren’t properly stretched out as a LoHud commenter. Too much too soon. Where were the dave rules when they would have helped you???
Just kidding. I’m in Mexico. I thought I could get some peace and quiet down here, instead I find that my brother – *my own brother* – thinks that Joba should stay in the bullpen. For all kinds of ridiculous and convoluted reasons that I’m too incoherent to repeat. All garbage. How can I relax here now??
Also, there was a huge incident of narco-violence this afternoon in the little town where I’m supposed to have lunch tomorrow. Early reports are that four police/army guys were killed. I’m thinking it might be better to have lunch someplace else but… this place is only open one day a week, for Thursday lunch, so this is my only shot this year. I think I have to go. If I never post here again, you’ll know it didn’t work out too well. Thank goodness I got to see tonight’s LOST.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....310289153/
Get busy starting or get busy relieving.
Nick in Zihautanejo via SF
Narco-violence. Ouch! If you hear someone say anything that sounds like the word “Boli”, get out of there right away.
Enjoy your lunch?
Nick.
The safest time to have lunch is the day after an accident…or so I am told.
I agree with your brother. He is a wise man.
-dennis
Nick.
The safest time to have lunch is the day after an accident…or so I am tokd.
Your brother echoes the belief of Sox fans that Joba belongs in the Pen…Please?
-dennis
“told”
let the big boy pitch, stop babying him.
from 2005-2006 chien-ming wang jumped 68 innings (and won 19 games)
The great genius Billy Eppler says Kei Igawa has great stuff. He thinks he’s just as good as Ted Lilly, in fact.
Oh, the genius of the Yankees hierarchy.