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Gardner benefits as game changes

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 27, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

We’ve heard a lot about steroids and drug testing this spring, too much. But Joe Girardi brought that subject up again after the game today in a more positive sense.

The context was a discussion about Brett Gardner. Because of drug testing, Girardi said, a player like Gardner will become more valuable.

“Just to be flat-out straightforward, you’re probably going to see some more speed in the game,” the manager said. “You’re not going to have as many home runs. You’re going to have to find ways to create runs.”

Gardner had an interesting first inning. He showed bunt, which drew the infield in a step or two. Then he slapped a ball up the middle. Minnesota second baseman Alexi Casilia knocked the ball down but had no play.

Gardner then stole second and scored on a single. The threat of speed and then actual speed helped the Yankees score a run.

I asked Jorge Posada how much a player like Gardner irritates a catcher. “Oh, we hate it,” he said. “It changes everything about the defense.”

Of course none of this much matters unless Gardner can get on base as a decent clip. But through three games in spring training, he’s giving the Yankees something to think about.

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117 Responses to “Gardner benefits as game changes”

  1. carl February 27th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    I hope BG gets the job. Speed kills.

  2. m February 27th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Love this kid (yes, I know Melky’s ‘younger’).

    He better be clean. (His neck’s kinda big…)

  3. Heyya February 27th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    He has the potential to score a lot of runs with this team. Let’s hope he does his part, so the rest of the guys can do theirs.

  4. Tom February 27th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    The return of “Billy Ball”?

  5. R-Tek February 27th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Have a feeling that he is going to be the team MVP this year

    Guys like Brett, Swisher, and Tex are going to improve our defense immensely and also add a grinder element to the team. Brett’s speed is goign to be an asset

  6. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    A few weeks ago, I posted a query in another message board as to why the art of the stolen base was in such decline? I got numerous responses, but two of the most interesting responses were as follows:

    1) the emphasis on HRs and slugging has led managers to be more cautious with their base-stealing – the risk of getting caught compared to the reward of an extra base just isn’t worth it, not when big boppers can drive the runners in anyway.

    2) The height of the artificial turf craze was in the 80′s, which is when we had such SB kings as Henderson, Coleman, Raines, etc…..With the decline of artifical surfaces and the reemphasis on real turf, it’s harder to steal.

    I like Brett as a player in terms of his skill set, but he is still very limited; I like him as a 4th OF/pinch runner, that’s all. I need to see him do well over an extended period of time before I am convinced of his ability to play CF regularly. I prefer him over Melky, but I still think the Yankees made a mistake not trading for Cameron.

  7. darkmoonfire February 27th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    “Gardner had an interesting first inning. He showed bunt, which drew the infield in a step or two.”

    Tricksy… tricksy… gotta love it. Nice to see him keeping pitchers on their toes at home plate, as well as when he’s on base.

  8. ray (sox fan) February 27th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    I can attest to the fact that a very speedy player adds important dimensions to the game. If Gardner works out it will definitely be to the advantage of you guys.

    Even Ellsbury has been inconsistent, he stretches singles into doubles, is always a threat to steal, and also steals base hits away from the opposition in the field.

  9. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    Newsday is going to charge people for on-line access – wow, that stinks. I refuse to pay for that material – even though it means not being able to read the blogs. I wonder how many people will pay for something they consider relatively frivolous?

  10. Jason February 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Cameron hits .230 and strikes out 170 times a year. He is 36 yrs old and makes $10 million dollars.

    He is awful… you don’t need former all-stars and double-digit salaries at EVERY position to have a good team.

  11. m February 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    darkmoonfire,

    Just like the triangle offense, Gardner can work around what the defense shows you.

    o/t but the lower level prospects blowing a game was not nearly as troublesome as the RISP average. Talk about being in mid-season form!

  12. m February 27th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    ray,

    I guess congratulations are in order. :lol:

    I can’t believe the Celtics have been working on this since December.

  13. X-Mann February 27th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    ray,

    No doubt. I always cringed when Ellsbury was up to bat in the late innings. I felt that whenever he put the ball in play, it would expose our horrid defense and it will be an infield hit or 2 base error. Players with that kind of speed actually change the defense and makes the entire infield nervous.

  14. YanksinCA February 27th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    “Have a feeling that he is going to be the team MVP this year”

    I have a feeling if he’s their MVP, they’re in big trouble. He can be a huge asset to the team if he can play a solid CF, and get on base. But on a team of stars (like the Yanks), he probably won’t be the MVP.

  15. m February 27th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Word of caution, though. And I’m sure ray can give us more on it, but Ellsbury was caught stealing more once teams had the scouting report on him.

    The trick is to not try to steal every time you’re on base.

  16. ray (sox fan) February 27th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    m
    February 27th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
    ray,

    “I guess congratulations are in order.

    I can’t believe the Celtics have been working on this since December.”

    Guess we will know in a couple months whether it is congratulations or condolences that is more appropriate!

    I must admit it seems like your Lakers haven’t even skipped a beat with Bynum going down. Cavaliers looked quite beatable against Houston last night.

    Did you hear that the Pats traded Mike Vrabel to Kansas City for an undisclosed draft pick?

  17. PAT M. February 27th, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    If he could only be an effective bunter he’d add 25 points to his average….Speed never has a slump is true, but .250 hitters are certianly very prone to having not just a slump, but a drought….

  18. Brandon (CC/AJ/Marky Mark..4 DAYS& PEDS !) Atleast I'm not GreenBeret7 February 27th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    ‘The return of “Billy Ball”?’

    It’s Brett Ball to you buddy !

  19. Left Coast February 27th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    People clamor for gritty, gutty players who are hungry and have speed and do not ‘swing for the fences’ and who can make things happen. Now we have one and there are still complaints.

    But yeah, let’s discard him for the immortal Mike Cameron who hit .234 last year with 160 strikeouts. Why have any homegrown players? Lets just go acquire another team’s 35+ yr old former all-star!!! And people wonder why they say you can’t have young players in NY.

  20. jack February 27th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    What do you want from the 9th place hitter? Speed and defense and a tough AB is fine with me.

  21. ray (sox fan) February 27th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    “Word of caution, though. And I’m sure ray can give us more on it, but Ellsbury was caught stealing more once teams had the scouting report on him.”

    Very true, m. As I noted Ellsbury has definitely been inconsistent. He was great in the World Series a couple years ago but last year didn’t even play much in the playoffs because Coco was playing better.

    Both Ellsbury and Gardner are still young players and they will make mistakes, but I love their speed.

  22. m February 27th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    ray,

    Just kidding about Marbury. I don’t know enough about him to say anything either way.

    re: Bynum, it’s a double-edged sword. He helps us be so much better defensively, but offensively Kobe, LO, and Pau are so much more consistent when he’s out. Of course that means more touches for them, but it’s also because they had a long run without him last season.

    Vrabel? Shocker. As usual, it’s plug and play for the Pats. Hopefully, Fred Taylor will help a lot.

  23. AROD fan (SIGN MANNY NOW) February 27th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    That’s just stupid.

    Why wouldn’t steroids help people gain speed? So Ben Johnson should have been a baseball player because he would have hit more home runs instead of “creating runs” by stealing bases? And how do we know that Gardner is not on roids? Seriously. A-Rod has taken more tests than Gardner!!

  24. GreenBeret7 February 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    AROD fan (SIGN MANNY NOW)
    February 27th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
    That’s just stupid.

    Why wouldn’t steroids help people gain speed? So Ben Johnson should have been a baseball player because he would have hit more home runs instead of “creating runs” by stealing bases? And how do we know that Gardner is not on roids? Seriously. A-Rod has taken more tests than Gardner!!

    ————————————————————

    That;s riuculous. If Garner is on steroids, he’d better sue the manufacturer, because he got an bad batch. It’s lost it’s ginger.

  25. GreenBeret7 February 27th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Correction: ***That’s ridiculous***

  26. G. Love February 27th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    I find it really strange that there is the Brett vs. Melky division in the fanbase.

    I’m struggling to understand why fans are so attached to Melky as our starting CF. I really think it’s the name and the fact that he looks sweet and silly.

    What exactly has Melky done as the Yankees full time CF? Have we won a playoff series with him? Has he been a lynchpin in the offense?

    I’d rather see what Gardner can do with his legs than see what Melky can do with his arm.

    We know what Melky is as a player.

    He’s a decent backup OF who can fill in when someone goes down. He has a terrible batting eye, he can’t bunt, he can’t situationally hit, but he can jack one out to the short porch once in awhile.

    He’s a backup. He got all the playing time he could last season and showed that he was regressing and not learning from his mistakes/flaws.

    As for Gardner, we don’t have enough of a sample to know what he is. He showed progress last season on his 2nd callup.

    At the very least, I’d like to see if the guy can get comfortable and get on base and steal some bags.

    I know all the stat heads hate Gardner and think he’s 65 wins below replacement or something, but I’d like to see enough of him to make that determination.

    I know he can hit in clutch situations like that GW hit against Papelbon.

    I’m not saying he’s the answer in CF, but I’d like to see what he can do as his speed is what this team has been lacking for a long time.

  27. PAT M. February 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    m, If you need Laker tickets, give a weeks notice….I get excellent seats all the time…..Lakers run for the title is will require their 2nd unit to play well…A little spooty at times…Farmar is the key….

  28. Doreen February 27th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    G. Love -

    I will admit to having a soft spot for Melky. Maybe it’s the name. Maybe it’s because he started out awful and then came back up and did a great job. Maybe it’s his arm. Maybe it’s the silly grin. Maybe it’s the old “Melk and Rookies” and “Got Melk” signs that showed up at the stadium. And I admit it’s sentimentality.

    I realize he’s no superstar. He may be league average at best. But I don’t think he’s as gosh-darn-awful as a lot of people make him out to be. He had a horrible – HORRIBLE – year last year. No doubt. But I don’t see why he couldn’t turn it around.

    However, all that being said, if Brett Gardner ends up being the everyday CF, that’s okay, too. First of all, if he does, that means he’s had a good spring and that he’s showed improvement in getting on base and cutting down on strikeouts. So that’s all good. I liked some of what I saw from him last season. Gutty, gritty. Liked his game-winning hit and a few other things.

    So, if it’s Gardner, I’ll be somewhat disappointed it’s not Melky – but not if Melky was a no-show in the spring. And I wouldn’t be upset that it’s Gardner.

    I still think there’s an outside possiblity (very outside, perhaps) that the everyday CF is not on the team right now.

  29. RMS February 27th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    Mike Cameron as the Yankee cf? Bite your tongue. The only thing you will get out of him is a breeze on a hot day when he whiffs.

  30. pat February 27th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    G Love

    It comes down to whether you believe 2008 was the norm or a blip for Melky.

    He played well enough in 2006 and 2007 to get the nod for CF. No debating he had a tough year last year.

    I’m okay with the best guy winning the position but I am not giving the nod to Gardner based on 1 AB against Papelbon same way I’m not giving it to Melky on his pulling Manny’s HR back into the park.

  31. Joe from Long Island February 27th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Doreen – I second your motion. Melky really delivered in the past. Last year was awful. I hope he comes back. However, there’s something about Brett that intrigues me. Maybe it’s the speed dimension.

    Ultimately, I hope that one of them claims the job, and has a very good season. If Melky is the “loser”, he likely will be dealt, as he is out of options. I hope that it’s to a NL team, so that he can do well there without hurting the Yankees.

    They both seem like guys I can root for. Here’s hoping one of them wins the competition, and not some outsider.

  32. Phil February 27th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    The Yanks believe that baseball is sliding into another pitchers era. They’ve come around cyclically in baseball history.

  33. george February 27th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    it’s hype to imagine that the game is changing so much. in the 2008 AL, teams averaged 1.008 HRs a game. in 2002, it was 1.088. it doesn’t seem PEDs have that much overall effect.

    for era comparisons, the 1978 AL was .743 a game. the 1932 AL was .575/game.

    it’s not reverting to those levels regardless of whether players take PEDs or not; it’d require expanding the size of the ballparks.

    players who get on base and steal are valuable in any era. players who can steal but never get on base are 5th outfielders. hopefully Gardner’s the former.

  34. Baja February 27th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    I remember the first time I saw BG run and thinking to myself Jeezis, that kid is fast. At the end of the season I was thinking Jeezis that kid is fast, wish he could hit his weight.

    With his speed, he’ll get to balls in center. If he can be a tough AB, he’ll help the top of the order. And if he gets on… ain’t no stoppin’ him.

  35. gayle February 27th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    So was listening to Michael Kay on my way home and he said tomorrow he is taping a sit down interview with ALex for the YES Network and allegedly nothing is forbidden in terms fo questions. That shuld be an interesting interview to say the least. Let’s see if Michael is as tough on him on YES as he was on his radio show.

  36. vv February 27th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    it’s not like the game’s reverted to the dead ball era, or 1968, since they stopped PED testing!

  37. Joe from Long Island February 27th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    gayle – any word on when they will be showing it?

  38. gayle February 27th, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Joe–

    no he didnt say when or in what format it was at the very end they were asking everyone what they were doing over the weekend and he said that he was taping this interview for the YES Network.

  39. Doreen February 27th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    gayle -

    That should be an interesting interview.

  40. jack February 27th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    I thought Alex refused to shake Kay’s hand?

  41. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    To continue this from the previous thread – Mike Francesca is no Yankee fan. If he were, he would not have cancelled his outing to Yankee camp just because Jeter, Cano and A-Rod aren’t going to be there. LOL The Yankees signed 3 huge free agents and Mike has no desire to talk with them again? What about Jorge? Mo? Andy? Is he not going to camp at all? That’s really a joke – I guess it IS all about Francesca. Sheesh – did the big guy ever think that maybe Yankee fans would WANT to hear from their players? Also, he’s blowing a prime opportunity to talk to Yogi, etc……Since he’d likely interrupt them anyway, I guess it’s just as well.

    Jeter in the WBC worries me – I HATE the fact that he is playing. He’s not healthy and lord knows he hates to be taken out of games. Do we really trust the staff of the U.S. team to do what’s best for Jeter by playing it safe? It’s just stupid – I can’t express enough disdain for this tournament. It also pisses me off Cano, Jeter and A-Rod will be off the team for 3 weeks – poor Tex will have had almost no practice time with his teammates. Anyone know who much time is left in ST after the WBC ends? Thanks!

  42. pat February 27th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Busy weekend for Alex.

    Michael Kay Saturday, MLB investigators Sunday. Someone remind him that “no comment” is his friend and “Yes” and “No” are complete sentences.

    Wonder if he’ll shake Michael’s hand? :wink:

  43. Weather Man February 27th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    I’m very surprised A-Rod agreed to talk with Kay (if what he said about nothing being off-limits being true).

    Alex better huddle up with his advisers and make sure he is prepped on what to say– word for word. People are going to be dissecting that interview looking for inconsistencies from his previous statements and more info that he may not have revealed earlier. He better not add the extra sentence that he is prone to doing.

  44. Carl79 February 27th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    IMO, it is really not a good idea for Alex to keep talking about this and keeping it in the news. He is in a no-win situation with Kay. He should just lay low and concentrate on baseball.

  45. Soul February 27th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Nothing to gain, everything to lose for Alex. He better be well prepared.

  46. Mark in Tampa February 27th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Kay interviewing Arod.

    Sounds like a real battle of wits shaping up there.

  47. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/

    Lots of good info here….AJ, who I already adore, had the flu. It’s a great sign that, even though Joe told him he didn’t have to, he chose to complete his full workout today. This may seem like a small thing, but it’s not. These new guys are showing a tremendous dedication to their craft, unlike those who shall not be named

  48. Mark in Tampa February 27th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    WBC final game is March 23rd. Season opener is April 6th. But, if team USA plays the way they did last time, Jeter and Tex will be back with the Yanks @March 12.

  49. Sevrx February 27th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Alex wouldn’t agree to do this unless it is a cream-puff Gammons-type interview.

    Though the interesting thing here is that the higher-ups have made no secret that they do not really like Alex or approve what he did. If you listen to Cashman and read the anonymous quotes from the Levine’s of the world (and even Hank threw a shot his way) you can tell they are all annoyed and angry. Hal didn’t even show up to his PC, they sent Felix Lopez as the team representative.

    So while I expect an easy interview by Kay, it would not shock me if YES gave him permission to be very aggressive because of the person involved.

  50. pat February 27th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Mark
    Tex isn’t playing in the WBC.

  51. jack February 27th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Poor Tex will be playing with Angel Berroa, Eduardo Nunez, and Cody Ransom for weeks

  52. bru February 27th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    no way melky gets cf back if things don’t change for the better for melky.

    gardner has gotten on base 4 times in 8 at bats & melky has not gotten on once in 5 plate appearances.

    i think gardner will win the job.gardner if he can get on base at a decent rate,maybe 340 will give us what this team needs.

    he has done it at every level,start slow & then tears it up.

  53. Mark in Tampa February 27th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    “Mark
    Tex isn’t playing in the WBC.”

    Good point. Its been a long day.

  54. Doreen February 27th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    You know, the WBC is kind of a blessing in disguise this season. The Yankees need to find a good utility infielder and they will have ample opportunity to audition guys at all non-1B infield positions this spring.

    Betsy -

    I didn’t hear Jeter wasn’t healthy. What’s the problem? I read a quote from him the other day that said if he wasn’t well, he wouldn’t jeopardize the Yankees’ season by playing in the WBC. I tend to believe him.

  55. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    http://web.yesnetwork.com/index.jsp

    I hope this is the right link – AJ’s quick cut video is up; interesting necklace, lol. For a second, I almost thought it was a snake!

  56. Betsy February 27th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Hey Doreen

    Jete has a sore hamstring – I know he says he’s fine, but I would never believe him because he never wants to admit he’s hurt. I just think that this is the type of injury that needs to be monitored – and Jeter treated very conservatively. If not, this could linger the whole season -hamstring injuries scare me.

    Speaking of the WBC, Steve Goldman on YES.com mentioned that Francisco Cervelli is playing in the WBC. I agree with him that that is pretty stupid – he should be in camp, participating in drills and improving the game. I know all about playing for pride of country…..I just don’t agree that it should come before professional obligations. I couldn’t care less about the WBC.

  57. duh February 27th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    what’s hilarious is that the people criticizing Cameron for striking out a lot don’t realize that SO DOES GARDNER.

    Gardner strikesout A TON.

    at least Cameron will hit you 25 HRs.

    you guys are acting like Gardner is Willie Randolph. he needs to cut down the strikeouts if he is going to be successful.

    not saying he won’t, but don’t use Cameron’s K’s as an example for why Gardner is better.

  58. jake February 27th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    It’s WAY too early to make a decision about Gardner. So far, so good. But there’s a long ways to go. However, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him make it as the Yanks’ CF. His career has been marked by a pattern of struggle, first, at a new level, followed by success. He’s put up excellent .OBPs throughout his career. He bunts. He steals bases. He scores runs. He covers a lot of ground CF. The only knock on him, really, has been his lack of power. I’d like to see Melky do well, but, at this point in time, Gardner is the better all-around player.

  59. TexasYanksfan February 27th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    How can you not root for a guy like Gardner. Keep at it, Brett!

  60. Cor Shep February 27th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    who’s faster – gardner or christian who got DFA’d??

  61. LOL February 27th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Gardner is clutch he had two game winning hits last year in the short amount of time he called up. He also has a desire to play the game hard which is something yankees been missing with all there lazy players of late like Abreu, Cano etc etc.

  62. RMS February 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Mike Francesa has been a Yankee fan since the Mickey Mantle days. I do agree that he interrupts way too much.

    As for Mike Cameron. He has regressed in cf and he is 36. Let’s get younger. The Yankees have enough mid thirties players. And yes he strikes out a ton. Go with Gardner in cf. He will give this team some life.

  63. duh February 27th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    “He also has a desire to play the game hard which is something yankees been missing with all there lazy players of late like Abreu, Cano etc etc.”

    how was Abreu “lazy”? because he’s not white?

    seriously, how was he lazy?

  64. LOL February 27th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Cameron sucks he makes 10 million dollars he is old and strikeouts alot keep him away from the yankees.

  65. LOL February 27th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    @ Duh

    Abreu didn’t run hard alot of times and he is scared of the wall. He was a soft lazy player. Nothing to do with him not being not white. Posada, A-Rod and many others play the game hard. Philly fans said the same thing about Abreu when he was a phillie and he proved them right.

  66. BJ February 27th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Next year if it all pans out…

    LF Gardner
    CF Jackson
    RF Holliday

  67. Slu February 28th, 2009 at 12:45 am

    I think both Gardner and Melky stink. I think one of them will get the job out of spring training, but I will be shocked if either one starts a single meaningful game in Sept.

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