Spring Game 15: Yankees at Tigers
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2009 
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YANKEES
Cabrera CF
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B
Posada DH
Swisher RF
Ransom 3B
Berroa 2B
Pena SS
Cash C
Pitching today: Some big lefty, CC something. Then Aceves, Bruney, Veras, Melancon, Jackson.
TIGERS
Inge 3B
Polanco 2B
Sheffield DH
Hessman 1B
Raburn RF
Cleven CF
Ramirez LF
Laird C
Everett SS
Pitching today: Justin Verlander followed by Juan Rincon, Scott Williamson and Fernando Rodney.
Notes: The Yankees are in Lakeland for the second time in four days. … The team is off tomorrow and nothing is planned baseball-wise at Steinbrenner Field. … With the Dominican Republic’s shocking loss to the Netherlands in the WBC last night, Robbie Cano and Damaso Marte will soon be back in camp. You can expect them on Friday. … Back later with more. We’re in the clubhouse at 8:25 a.m. and then it’s off to Joker Marchant Stadium.
UPDATE, 9:41 a.m.: Still in Tampa as I wanted to watch Mo throw BP. He’s facing John Rodriguez and Jesus Montero.
Mo looks OK to me. One ball has been put in play.
UPDATE, 10:00 a.m.: Ever the good teammate, Mo stayed to watch Edwar Ramirez throw his BP.
UPDATE, 11:16 a.m.: We spoke to Mo for a few minutes after his session. He felt fine and will throw BP again on Saturday. Then he should be ready for a game. “Everything is good,” he said.
UPDATE, 1:16 p.m.: Yankees are off to a good start, leading 2-0. Teixeira had an RBI single and Swisher a sacrifice fly. Now Carsten Charles takes the hill.
UPDATE, 1:40 p.m.: Yanks wearing out Verlander as they lead 3-0 and have the bases loaded with two outs in the second.
UPDATE, 2:00 p.m.: CC’s second inning: single, single, single, strikeout, double, groundout, two-run bomb to left by Sheff, single. It’s 5-4 Tigers.
CC was lifted with two outs in the second.
UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: 6-4 Tigers middle of the fourth. The Yankees left the bases loaded in the fourth when Swisher left to left.
UPDATE, 3:03 p.m.: We just spoke to CC. He feels fine, he just had trouble locating balls to both sides of the plate and couldn’t locate his cutter with two strikes. That’s usually an out pitch for him.
Party at the Paradiso… or the Milky Way!!
Just read the DN. It looks like Max kellerman might land with Wfan. That is music to my ears. Go GET’em CC.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03.....159031.htm
Manuel appeared to be embarrassed by the sudden turn of events, considering Sanchez’s release came less than 24 hours after Manuel spoke of the reliever being firmly in his regular-season plans.
Manuel admitted the decision blindsided him when it was delivered to the manager late Monday night in a meeting that Manuel said was brief and one-sided.
***This is awkward – I don’t blame Manuel for being embarrassed, given that he had just spoken with Sanchez about his plans for him in 2009.
Looks like Cano should be back with the Yanks soon. I saw him yesterday at the WBC and he looks like he is in good shape.
It’s CC’s turn now. The competition starts – none of these guys wants to have a bad ST outing……lol. I hope one of his games is going to be on YES – I’d love to see the big guy.
As I posted in the prior thread, I’m very glad to have Cano and Marte back; now we just need Jeter.e
“Toronto may have to part with a guy like Roy Halladay over nothing more than $$.”
If the Jays trade Doc Halladay for the very team friendly amount of money he is due they should close up shop and stop having a team. That’d be a disgrace.
Benny: I just read that! Wow, that improves mornings at work immensely. I used to have to turn off the radio at 10:00 a.m.
Article on Swish:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03.....ref=sports
“LOUD” is a great nickname, lol.
I’m hardly worried about Loud’s .133 BA at this point. He won’t be hitting that in the regular season and he’s walked…… a LOT.
Vincent,
I wouldn’t ask for Jeter to come back too soon
Kellerman and Kenny was the best sports radio show I’ve ever heard. ESPN should have never broken them up.
Great article on swish. Thanks for linking. Chemistry is so important if you want to win championships.
ellen: I think mike and max are polar opposites which makes for good sports talk. While both of them are seasoned vets; max brings a young, hip-hop (ish) vibe to wfan. He is highly intellgent, articulate, and well balanced in his knowledge of sports. If WFAN doesnt sign max, it will be AROD’s fault.
I’m sure A-Roid will be blamed for the DR’s WBC ouster, too. That guy can’t win… nor can he get out of his own way.
As for Kellerman, I agree with ellen… he was/is the worst listen in town. I wish 1050 would give the Jim Rome show a real shot, but I guess it’s not “local” enough, in the eyes of management.
Hold the phone, you mean to tell me that Craig Carton was WRONG about something being wrong with Joba???
And that jerk is still screaming this morning about how Joba should be in the pen.
I can’t wait until the year is over and Joba has more wins and a better ERA than one Johan Santana.
“As for Kellerman, I agree with ellen… he was/is the worst listen in town. I wish 1050 would give the Jim Rome show a real shot, but I guess it’s not “local” enough, in the eyes of management”
you don’t like Kellerman. And you like Jim Rome?
do have this right?
Jim Rome? He is a moron. In fact, 90% of TV and radio sports announcers and analysts are morons. Max Kellerman is ok but he is a huge Yankee homer. I always liked him on Around the Horn.
Jeter’s edge, after he was carrying on yesterday about Joba needing to step up or he would be the biggest flash in the pan in NY history. Today he goes on to say well lets see if he could do it again, and it is only spring training. Dude you can’t have it both ways. Why wasn’t it only spring training when he was getting it handed to him? But when he goes out and dominates, it’s lets see if he can do it again?
Five minutes into Jim Rome’s NASCAR talk and he’d be dropped in New York!
“I can’t wait until the year is over and Joba has more wins and a better ERA than one Johan Santana.”
I’m a Joba fan, but seriously…this ain’t happening in 2009.
ahhh Jime Rome another blow hard. He is awful. It seems everyone who calls into his show reads from a script.
Vincent, you’re welcome!
people screaming for joba to be in the bullpen do not understand baseball.
you put or keep a pitcher in the rotation unless he can’t handle it or injuries are a concern or reality.
joba is 23 years old so in time if he can’t handle starting or an injury scares the yankees into putting him into the pen then at least they gave it a shot.
the one thing about baseball is that you can;t predict what will happen,you only have an opinion.like what you hear about the great moves the red sox made spending little money compared to the yankees.
if the red sox finish in 3rd place & the yankees win the world series who made the better moves?
point being is nobody knows until after the season.
for every person praising the red sox great moves there is a person critisizing them.
starting pitchers are more valuable than bullpen guys & you have to give a pitcher like joba who has at least 4 great pitches every chance as a starter.
the red sox have a lot of question marks.ortiz,drew,lowell,tek,drew,becket,youk,etc… they can struggle & look terrible and old or they can all play great & look like an allstar team.time and only time will tell.
don’t know of a New Yorker, who likes Jim Rome.
I suppose there is. But don’t know who he/she is.
Harper again is trying to start the stupid debate about Joba to the pen. This is what I wrote in the comments.
Joba has always been a starter. The only reason he was moved to the pen two years ago was because the Yankees needed help and he was near his innings limit. You know there are other guys in the minors that have the potential to be Mo’s replacement! Why would you move someone with 4 pitches to the pen that is insanity. And don’t give me this garbage that Mo was once a starter, yeah he was and not a very good one at that. That is why he was moved to the pen. Why not ask the Rays why they don’t move Price to the pen. Afterall they need a closer. Please I am so tired of this garbage. JOB IS A STARTER CASE CLOSED!
““I can’t wait until the year is over and Joba has more wins and a better ERA than one Johan Santana.”
I’m a Joba fan, but seriously…this ain’t happening in 2009.”
I’m not expecting it, but it’s possible (wins less likely due to playing time).
PECOTA has Joba at 9-6 in 17 starts with a 3.15 ERA. His #1 most comparable pitcher is Roger Clemens.
Santana’s at 3.14; 15-8 in 31 starts. Joba with a higher K/9.
Mike Francesa and Max Kellerman would be a fascinating show. I’m not sure Mike would ever agree to it though.
“they can struggle & look terrible and old or they can all play great & look like an allstar team.time and only time will tell.”
Kinda like the Yankees. Only the Rays are a real young team.
I wish 1050 would give the Jim Rome show a real shot
======================================
Dear god NO!
Jennifer, they need something to write about now that Alex is away from the team!
I think Kellerman and Rome are equally awful. Can’t stand either of them.
fran- I wonder if they blamed Alex for the DR being beaten by the Netherlands? I’m sure someone could come up with a story about that.
I actually heard people say that this is a made up injury so he could be away from the team for a while. Could you believe that? I mean what a load!
The NY Daily News has a Poll on the right hand side: Where would you rather see Joba Chamberlain?
-Bullpen, he and Mo would be unstoppable
-Starting rotation, he’s got ace potential
Right now bullpen has 71% of the votes and starting rotation has 29%. Though, I don’t know how many people actually voted(and how many times they each did)
Starting rotation!!
Anyone else surprised Phil Coke has a clear edge over Robertson for the 6th bullpen spot? I thought Robertson proved more last year than Coke.
Also, I’d be in favor of Evan & Max and Mike & Joe on WFAN. Break up the Yankees/Mets fans…
I wish Max Kellerman was leading off and had a blog, that’s not a shot at Jeter, Damon, or Pete.
“I wonder if they blamed Alex for the DR being beaten by the Netherlands?”
Dominicans couldn’t hit for sh*t. They should be blaming the guys who played. Reyes .111, H Ramirez .222, Cano .231, Guillen .083, etc. Olivo had 2 homers and 5 rbi. Rest of the team had 2 homers and 6 rbi. The DR pitching staff allowed ONE EARNED RUN in the tournament. Bad defense, bad bats.
“Anyone else surprised Phil Coke has a clear edge over Robertson for the 6th bullpen spot?”
Not in the least. Coke is lefthanded and good. Robertson is neither.
“Right now bullpen has 71% of the votes and starting rotation has 29%. ”
That just shows the intelligence of an average person that reads the NY Daily News. Very low.
wich 7 pitchers should be in the pen?
we know mo,bruney,marte,coke are in.
mo
bruney
marte
coke
veras
melancon
aceves
I think Coke is pretty much locked in to make the team. The only remaining roster questions in my opinion is:
1. Who starts in RF (Nady or Swisher)?
2. Who starts in CF (Cabrera or Gardner)?
3. Who takes the 7th spot in the bullpen (Robertson, Albaladejo, Ramirez, Melancon)?
4. Who is the long reliever (Giese, Aceves, Tomko)?
5. Who takes the last two jobs on the bench (Cabrera/Gardner, Berroa, ?)?
Number 5 is assuming A-rod starts on the DL and Ransom is the starting 3b. That would leave two spots open on the bench.
My answers would be:
1. Swisher
2. Gardner
3. Albaladejo
4. Giese
5. Cabrera and I don’t care
Bru:
In Pete’s notebook, Cashman seems to indicate that Edwar is in the pen as of now, which would lead me to believe that Melancon will start the year in northern PA.
I’m hoping it’s Geise over Aceves, but we’ll see there.
“I wonder if they blamed Alex for the DR being beaten by the Netherlands?”
So I’m NOT the only one?
Actually it was Girardi, not Cashman. From Pete’s notebook:
Manager Joe Girardi indicated that Jose Veras, Edwar Ramirez and Phil Coke have the edge to earn spots in the bullpen based on what they did last season. The real competition will be for the long reliever role. Dan Giese, Alfredo Aceves and Brett Tomko are the leading candidates. The Yankees will carry seven relievers. Rivera, Brian Bruney and Damaso Marte are guaranteed spots if they are healthy.
As far as long relievers go, Igawa has pitched better than Geise and Aceves.
I doubt anyone will blame Alex for missing the WBC. He had hip surgery!
If the DR can’t score more than 1 run against the freaking Netherlands when they have Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, David Ortiz, Miguel Tejada, Robinson Cano and Jose Guillen then they didn’t deserve to win.
Yeah those 3 have the edge but since Ramirez hasn’t pitched yet he is quickly losing his advantage. I’d lump him in with the group of Albaladejo, Robertson and Melancon. Edwar’s questionable health means he shouldn’t have any advantage over those other guys.
Yesterday’s game may go on to be a kind of model for what we’ll see during Joba’s starts in the regular season in terms of how pitchers are deployed and how his innings limit is managed.
The yankees have said that Joba will make 30 or so starts. Now that could be a smoke screen and he might only get 20-25. But if it isn’t then there’s only one of two possibilities or a mixture of both – either his innings limit is higher than 150ish or he will be limited to only going 5 or so innings per start depending on his pitch count.
In practical terms it’s probably a mixture of both of the above – his limit is higher than the 150 limit many believed would be his ceiling and he’ll be limited with how deep he can go each start i.e.
At the same time Girardi and Cashman have made it a real point to say that not only is Phil Coke not limited to being a lefty specialist but that he can go multiple innings at a time – 2, even 3 innings.
They’ve really emphasized multiple innings – not just that he’s not a loogy and could therefore go an entire inning ( like the way they described marte when he was acquired). But that being a starter, Coke’s got the kind of arm strength/ stamina to throw a good portion of a game coming out of the pen.
At the same time it’s clear Coke isn’t considered a typical “long man” out of the pen. So Coke’s role has been described almost like a hybrid position on the staff. And keep in mind Coke’s hasn’t really seen extended use out of the pen over a whole season so it’s still unclear how his arm will react.
Just a guess but I think what we might wind up seeing during the season is that Joba and Coke may form something of a tag team. They’ll let Joba throw 5 innings or so and then bring Coke in for 2 innings. That’ll get the team through the 7th and then you can use the rest of the pen as if you’d gotten a quality start.
That’s just a rough outline. Obviously they could use Edwar to throw two innings if needed.
Again – just a guess. But I wonder if we see alot of Joba and Coke paired in starts on a near regular basis. That would limit Joba’s innings while giving Coke a little bit of a pattern to his usage during his first full season throwing out of the pen.
Joey, good idea mixing Max with Evan, that would be a good show. Max is the one guy on the radio who is not only an unapologetic Yankee fan, but actually understands that Joba belongs in the rotation because the bullpen is deep with guys like Melancon. Kay understands that too, but has to pretend not to be a Yankee fan and sometimes takes it too far the other way, including enabling Steve Phillips.
CB that is a really keen observation. I think you are dead on the mark.
Sounds like a great plan to me but I think Joba’s number of pitches will be monitored, not his innings. Obviously those two go hand in hand but I could see Girardi yanking Joba after 95-100 pitches no matter what.
6 innings x 25 = 150, easy. I’d bet money on him making that many starts this year. Let him go six most nights, 7-8 on occasion, balanced out by the usual 2/3 inning stinkers everyone throws up from time to time.
The back of the Daily News says Joba “saved his job”. Hilarious considering his job was never in jeopardy.
Coke is pretty sick from what i’ve seen
Who doesn’t love coke after all anyway?
“I’d lump him in with the group of Albaladejo, Robertson and Melancon. Edwar’s questionable health means he shouldn’t have any advantage over those other guys”
Sounds about right, I guess. I think Melancon’s out. Whoever the guy is will truly be the 7th man in the pen. To me that’s a guy who will NOT often be used in key late inning situations. He’ll probably be pitching late in 8-2 ballgames. I see that as a suitable role for any of Robertson, Albaladejo and Edwar. I’d think they’d like to get Melancon some innings in SWB as The Man in the pen and get him accustomed to pitching in key situations late in games.
For the question Patrick posed above, I would like:
1 Nady
2 Gardner
3 Melancon
4 Aceves
5 Melky and Berroa
“Sounds like a great plan to me but I think Joba’s number of pitches will be monitored, not his innings.”
Agreed. Pitches thrown are what matter. I just have a feeling that with all of his strikeouts and occasional bouts of wildness 90-100 pitches will likely get him through 5-6 innings on average. Young pitchers, especially young power pitchers just aren’t that efficient with their pitches. That very well could change as Joba matures this season but for planning purposes I think you have to figure you can count on Joba for 5-6 at most and then you need a strategy to optimize your use of the pen. Having one pitcher in the rotation who only goes 5 innings or so can put strain on a pen.
“Max is the one guy on the radio who is not only an unapologetic Yankee fan, but actually understands that Joba belongs in the rotation because the bullpen is deep with guys like Melancon.”
I wonder if Mike Francesa has ever heard of Melancon.
Steve B,
I also think Melancon is out. However, Girardi is great at managing the bullpen, he doesn’t leave anyone out. I think all the pitchers in the bullpen will get a good amount of work.
BWill51,
Why Nady? He is coming off the best year of his career and will likely regress. Swisher is a better hitter and fielder.
CB:
As I remember, Joba was not especially economical with his pitches as a starter last season. This, as you say, is typical of young power pitches. I’d expect a lot of 5-6 inning efforts.
Even Steve howe loved coke
Not in the least. Coke is lefthanded and good. Robertson is neither.
———-
Don’t sell Robertson short. He may very well win a job over Edwar at this point.
And frankly, I hope he does because he’s better than Edwar.
Yeah I agree with that CB. I think most nights he will be good for 5-6 but occasionally he will be more efficient and go 7-8. Having Coke as the designated reliever for Joba is a pretty good idea.
I wonder if Mike Francesa has ever heard of Melancon.
===================================
Me thinks the answer is no.
“However, Girardi is great at managing the bullpen”
I never really bought this theory. Bullpen management tends to be as good as the talent in the pen. When Torre had Mendoza/Rivera/Wetteland or Stanton/Nelson/Lloyd/Rivera, he was a bullpen genius too. When you don’t have talent, like Torre didn’t for most of the 2nd half of his Yankee career, you tend to lean on certain guys too much (Gordon, Quantrill, Proctor, etc) and often look bad doing it.
I think the majority of the high leverage situations will be handled by Marte and Bruney, with Coke and Veras covering in cases when the other two need a break, with the 7th guy getting a lot of mop up-ish work.
ESPN didn’t break up Kellerman and Kenny. Kenny quit because he couldn’t take Kellerman anymore.
Max and Brian used to be very good friends. The radio show did in the friendship. Max’s ego got the best of him and he made life miserable for Brian so Brian said, “enough” and quit the show.
Kellerman and Francesa would be interesting just to see who among the two would kill each other first.
Think one of Bernie Madoff’s victims in a room alone with Bernie. That’s what a Kellerman and Francesa pairing would look like.
If nothing else, it would make for great TV on YES just to check out the facial expressions of one when the other is talking.
It’s very unlikely Francesa has ever heard of Melancon. Which seams fitting like he didn’t know who Joba was before he came up. So when Melancon comes up or makes the team and pitches well Mike will act as if the Yankees “got lucky” with
“finding” an 8th inning guy. Same way he acted as if they “got lucky” with “finding” Joba.
Apparently Mike doesn’t think the Yankees know who they have in their system.
Steve B, I completely disagree with you. Did you think Edwar, Veras and Bruney were any good before last season? Girardi gave them all a shot and they performed well last year. Girardi also worked in guys like Coke, Giese and Robertson with varying results. He also adapted well to Marte. He misused him at first but then learned to put him in a better position to succeed.
Torre on the other hand misused the pen year after year. He had 1 or 2 guys he trusted and overused them until their arm was ruined. Mendoza, Quantrill, Sturtze, Proctor can all thank Torre for shortened careers.
Girardi is great at managing workloads and instilling confidence in his bullpen pitchers. That was one of Torre’s biggest weaknesses.
Patrick:
I’m half agreeing with you. I agree that Girardi manages the workloads well, but the group he had to work with last year, was far better and deeper than anything Torre had over his last 5-6 seasons.
Bullpen management comes in knowing when to use certain guys and, most importantly, not burning out arms. Girardi, in his short time as a manager in Florida and NY, has shown to have a good touch handling a ‘pen.
Torre, in his entire career as a manager, has shown not to have that touch. He has always burned out arms, even when he had good arms in the ‘pen. Its just the way he chooses to use a bullpen. He finds favorites and rides them hard to the end. Its not his strength as a manager.
For those who rip Robertson, check out his ERA when Pudge caught him last year and when Molina caught him. Its two different area codes. Pudge kept calling fastball after fastball, ignored his best pitch (curveball) and his ERA blew up in the 3 outings that Pudge had him.
Molina worked in his curveball, in each of his outings and the kid was dominant.
Robertson is a very solid arm. Definitely a kid that can handle a role, especially now with Pudge gone.
I think the bullpen will consist of: Giese (longman), Robertson (I think Edwar will be held back), Coke, Marte, Bruney, Veras (if he isn’t traded), and Mo.
Melancon is knocking on the door. If he continues to be dominant, its going to present an interesting dilemma for the Yankees. He may just be too good to be in AAA. If he is sent down, I don’t think its going to be for long.
Francesa and Kellerman would make me tune in everyday-just to find out who makes the first move in trying to kill the other person
“As I remember, Joba was not especially economical with his pitches as a starter last season. ”
No he wasn’t – though he did get better as his starts progressed.
I think a big thing for Joba in terms of pitch efficiency this year is how much he uses his 2 seam fastball and how effective it is.
He didn’t use it much in the minors and didn’t use it at all out of the pen.
But last year as a starter he started featuring it (forgot what game he broke it out first in…) and it was very effective in getting him quick outs.
I’d like to see him use that pitch much more this year. It was a terrific addition to his arsenal.
His stuff is amazing. Now its a matter of how to best use it. But that’s what maturing as a pitcher is about.
“the group he had to work with last year, was far better and deeper than anything Torre had over his last 5-6 seasons ”
I disagree. Torre never gave any of his guys a chance. Girardi is more flexible in that regard. He gave Farns, Bruney, Veras, and Ramirez shots in the big spot and gave them consistent work. He showed confidence in all of his pitchers and I think it helped.
In 2007 Torre had basically the same bullpen and he managed it pretty poorly.
Bullpens are always volatile, there are very few consistent performers year to year in the bullpen. That is why I think a manager has more effect there. A good manager can make the pieces work if he plays to each guy’s strengths and keeps them on a consistent workload.
SJ44,
The reasons you gave are exactly why Mike & Max would be a fascinating show to listen to and watch. I can’t imagine that their egos would be able to handle it, though.
You are obviously knowledgeable, but you also seem connected, what’s your background?
“I think the bullpen will consist of: Giese (longman), Robertson (I think Edwar will be held back), Coke, Marte, Bruney, Veras (if he isn’t traded), and Mo. ”
I like Robertson too I just think Albaladejo will get the nod. We’ll see how it plays out, I don’t really have a preference either way.
I am all in favor of relievers pitching multiple innings but it seems to me using Coke (or anyone) as Joba’s “designated reliever” would have the effect of limiting Coke’s usefulness. If Joba is pitching game 5 in a rotation, it would necessarily limit Coke’s availability for games 4 and 1. That doesn’t seem to be the most efficient approach to the bullpen.
Personally, I think the Yanks have often taken bullpen roles to an extreme. Not sure having an eighth inning pitcher, a seventh inning pitcher, a Joba reliever is all that necessary. On alternate Tuesdays I even wonder why the closer role must always be the Eckersley one inning save (not blaming that on the Yanks, of course).
SA,
No doubt. Think of a possibility of “human sacrifice” everyday on YES if Francesa and Kellerman are paired!
I think CB’s analysis of the Joba Plan is spot on. Its a great way to both maximize Joba’s pitches in a given start and not hurt the team because Coke can back him up.
Once Joba is more economical with his pitches, which will come with time and experience, he gets more “free reign” to go deeper into games.
As far as the bullpen, do you think Torre would have been patient enough to allow for guys like Ramirez, Robertson, Bruney (whom he hated) and Veras to develop last year? Of course not.
In his last year as manager, he used Vizcaino 12 times in the second half of the season with leads of 4 or more runs. Think about that for a moment.
That’s why the guy had nothing left in the tank for the post-season.
There is an art to bullpen management and some guys are just better at it than others.
Torre’s strength is in his ability to handle interpersonal relationships with the players, manage the media, and handle the day to day stress that comes with the job.
Bullpen management is his blind spot. Always has been and always will be.
I did a blog interview with Chad Jennings last year. This is what he had to say about Melancon.
“What else can I say. He’s a beast. Mid 90s fastball with movement. Hammer curve similar to David Robertson’s. Very thoughtful and polite, and willing to work. Attacks hitters, which is why his pitch count is low and his total innings high. I believe the hype that he’s a future closer.”
I can’t wait to see this guy in pinstripes!
Joba Chamberalin 2008 –
K/9 – 10.6.
K/BB – 3.03
Dave Robertson 2008 -
K/9 – 10.7
K/bb – 2.4
Robertson walked way too many hitters coming out of the pen last year. That was his problem. (both his k/9 and k/bb were better than Veras’ BTW and nearly as good as Edwar’s)
To say he’s no good however is just incorrect.
Robertson last year demonstrated in spades one of the most important skills any young pitcher can show – the ability to miss bats. His strike out rate was higher than Joba’s. That’s remarkable.
Major leaguers could not hit Robertson’s curveball. That bodes very well for his future.
I know Joba’s pitch counts and efficiency is a big issue to measure his progress but if you look at the raw numbers from last season as a starter – he was a little more efficient than people realize.
Joba made ten starts last season where he was allowed to throw at least 90 pitches.
He threw at least 6.0 IP in seven of those ten starts.
Granted, Joba does need to improve his efficiency to progress and mature as a starting pitcher – but the mediots like Francesa and fans alike who claim he throws too many pitches to be an effective starter is a bunch of hogwash.
Leave Joba where he is and he’ll continue to get better with his efficiency.
The stats don’t lie:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/pl.....uB5Q.FCLcF
I want to know what would Max Kellerman would be doing while Mike is talking Horse Racing & Golf. As Max doesn’t consider either one a sport.
SJ- How good were his interpersonal skills if he HATED Bruney? And Joe G and Bruney seem to get along very well? As you’ve said in the past if he hated you you knew it, how good is that?
I’m with Patrick. torre got to the point where he would only trust one or two guys in the pen other than Mariano and he rode them into the ground. I’m sure Paul Quantrill, Scott Proctor, Tanyon Sturtze and Luis Vizcaino would agree with me.
Robertson has excellent stuff and SJ made a tremendous point in illustrating the negative impact Pudge had on him. He can also go multiple innings. I could see him as a long man with more upside than Giese and Aceves in the rotation at SWB.
One other point about the bullpen.
Last year, only Texas and Baltimore had their starters throw fewer innings than Yankee starters. Even the Mariners, a 100 loss team, starters threw more innings than Yankee starters last year.
The bullpen will be more effective this year because they will pitch fewer innings. One of the things that none of the reported “experts” at ESPN talk about when discussing this years Yankee team is how many more innings their starters will throw this season and how that will effect the bullpen.
You have 4 guys in the rotation, CC, AJ, Pettitte and Wang, capable of throwing 200 innings. That takes a lot of pressure off the ‘pen. So much so, it will make it more effective.
Its one thing to have quality arms. When you have quality arms, depth, and the ability to not overuse them, that’s when you can have a dominant bullpen.
Robertson is not a long man. He’s a 2.0 IP guy at most.
“One of the things that none of the reported “experts” at ESPN talk about when discussing this years Yankee team is how many more innings their starters will throw this season and how that will effect the bullpen. ”
Some of the “experts” still say the Yankees pen is a weakness. The only strength the Yankees had last year was a good bullpen. In every other aspect of the game, the team underperformed expectations.
I don’t think Girardi can go wrong picking between Robertson, Ramirez, Albaladejo and Melancon. Even if one of them fails, the depth we have in the minors is remarkable.
Aren’t Kellerman and Jim Rome the same thing?
Jim Rome is fine. In tiny doses. He actually does a decent job with his one-on-one interviews with star athletes.
I’ve always thought they’d have Joba go 5 innings and turn it over to the bullpen. First, he’s a strikeout pitcher and on top of that, not very efficient. Second, the bullpen has the ability to be just as lock-down as Joba. Finally, I think CB said it. # of good starts by Joba>innings pitched counts. Oh, and they won’t burn his arm out by letting him go wild with the IP. They’ll monitor every single pitch.
Eddie? Okay. On certain conditions:
1. Be honest about any recurring pain.
2. Does not pitch against the Angels.
3. Does not pitch multiple innings. Shock & awe is the way to go with Stick.
4. His ERA is sub-2.
SJ44,
Do you have a baseball background? Just curious.
SJ,
ESPN is not the only network who hasn’t done their homework on the Yankee pen.
MLB Network has essentially said exactly the same thing. The entire panel for the exception of Al Leiter still thinks Joba should be in the pen because “there’s a big hole in the bridge to Mariano.”
They are both more infatuated with big names and don’t realize just how deep the organization is with bullpen arms.
CB -
I think you’ll see more of a Giese or Aceves/Coke combo be Joba’s ‘caddie’ during his starts. Coke is too valuable of a lefty arm to ‘pigeon hole’ him, so to speak, to just Joba’s starts. Especially on the days Joba can only go 4 or 5, I think you’ll see Giese or Aceves (whichever wins the long man role) come in after him.
I hope Mo pitches till he is 60 – he is a consummate professional.
What types of digital voice recorders are those in the picture, Pete?
I’m thinking of getting one for personal uses. Any suggestions?
Oh, and I’m not too excited about Giese. But, your “long” guy’s not usually a premier bullpen arm anyway. If Tomko can take his results to the bigs, then he’d certainly have more experience than the others. I do like Aceves, but they’d have to pry him off the mound. The boy does love to pitch.
Tomko? The name sounds familiar, yet I know nothing. Was he with the Giants? I used to listen to a lot of Giants games. Any knows his story and how he ended up here?
“They are both more infatuated with big names and don’t realize just how deep the organization is with bullpen arms.”
That is so true. Case in point is the Mets. Everyone is clamoring over their bullpen now. While they have the best 1-2 setup-closer punch in baseball, there is nothing after that. So when Santana gives them 7 innings they are in superb shape, but when every other starter struggles to get 6 they are in some serious trouble.
The Yankees have an arsenal of young, live arms that extends down to AAA. I think our bullpen is our strongest asset.
chris,
Don’t those “voice recorders” look like cell phones?
m -
Tomko’s been around since ’97. He’s bounced around a lot. Had a good first two years in Cincinatti and good year for the Giants in ’04 but has had mostly middling results otherwise. Here’s his stats….
http://www.baseball-reference......br01.shtml
The other thing that I think shows just how good Girardi was with the bullpen I believe that even though the Yankees were in the top 3 in bullpen innings not one of the relievers were in the top 10 individually in innings. SO he spread the love around so that no one really got burnt out.
My pen:
Rivera
Marte
Bruney
Coke
Melancon: (Veras lack of command bothers me. Mark at a younger age has better command)
Robertson: (He’s better then Edwar IMO. Outside of Edwar’s change I’m not too impressed)
Aceves: (I think Giese was more of a flash in the pan last year. I like Aceves stuff more)
At any rate, the last couple of spots are not crucial. If the pitchers don’t perform, there’s guys ready to step in. Gone are the days when we HAD to use Mike Myers (bless his heart) because there was nobody else. Anyone remember Mike out there for 2+ innings? T’wasn’t pretty.
And, we have the best bullpen coach. Mo will mold whatever arms they give him into strikeout, groundout, flyout machines. Girardi and Eiland developed a good system for using the arms and Mo helped with the mental side of relieving.
My guess is that Joba will put up extremely good numbers this year, with an ERA in the low 3′s. If so, it’s going to be very hard to pull him after 5 innings even if his pitch count is high.
The Yanks may start out that way, but the temptation to leave him in is likely to be too great. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see him pitch into the 7th inning regularly.
Great point, gayle. Great point. A major reason the pen were successful last year even with the huge amount of innings.
rodg,
Thanks for that. Geez. Why didn’t they make him a reliever earlier? haha.
“Coke is too valuable of a lefty arm to ‘pigeon hole’ him, so to speak, to just Joba’s starts.”
I agree. I wasn’t trying to suggest that it would be a rigid role or that he would be locked into being Joba’s “caddy.”
I was just speculating that this would be one way that they could leverage Coke and Joba given that both have certain issues with their use. Joba – innings limit. Coke – first year in the pen.
It wouldn’t surprise me that by the end of the year it’s Coke rather than Marte who winds up being the primary lefty out of the pen to get big outs.
But if Joba does wind up only going 5 innings or so it might not be a very good idea to use the “long man” to fill in those innings. 2 innings of Coke would be much better than 2 innings of Aceves/ Giese, especially if Joba’s usage falls into a pattern of him giving the team 5 innings or so.
It’ll be mix and match. Edwar for 1-2 coupled with Veras, etc.
You don’t want to be using your long man on a regular basis, especially for 2 innings stints. The long man is there to carry the load when 3-4 innings are needed when a starter doesn’t have it or gets hurt during a game or during a blow out. You don’t want Dan Giese making a lot of appearances. Same with Aceves.
You particularly won’t want them making a lot of appearances after Joba as those will likely be fairly high leverage innings. Good chance that after Joba leaves the game the Yankees will have a lead. You don’t want Giese/ Aceves giving up that lead.
Coke would be much better throwing 2 innings with a lead as he’ll maximize the higher leverage nature of those innings.
So it’s not a confined role. But I think we may see coke filling in that gap on a semi-regular basis. Even if he went two innings after Joba he’d still be able to throw an inning or two in between. That’s the real value of having 2 lefties in the pen.
I’m not talking about rigid roles – more dynamic ones that I think may evolve.
To be fair to Torre, there was a reason he went to the same relievers over and over. His later bullpens just weren’t that good.
Shouldn’t be too hard to figure out 3 innings before Mo every 5 days. Especially if the other 4 pitchers average about 7 innings.
Any no-hitters this year? If so, by whom? I’m going to say…AJ.
“His later bullpens just weren’t that good.”
How was the 2007 pen any better than the 2008 pen? All the same guys were there, Torre just never used them properly.
Oh, and I want CC to pitch every 3 days during interleague. He eats up NL lineups.
Just kidding of course, but I’m really sick of mediocre results in interleague play.
That’s how Boston’s been beating us the last few seasons. They’re making hay against the weaker league, even though we’re beating the good teams of the better league.
That needs to stop.
m,
I am pretty sure that the Yankees have the second best all-time record in interleague play. If I’m remembering correctly, Oakland has the best record. That might have changed in recent years but ever since interleague was instituted the Yankees have done very well.
“The Yanks may start out that way, but the temptation to leave him in is likely to be too great. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see him pitch into the 7th inning regularly.”
There will be a temptation and how that plays out will depend on how good the options in the bull pen are.
That’s why I’m guessing Coke will often wind up following Joba. The relief innings after Joba will be on average high leverage. You’ll want the most effective pitcher throwing those innings you can get. Right now that looks like Coke by a considerable margin.
Throw Joba 7 innings a start and your simply going to lose him as a starter later on in the year. He might throw 170-180 innings but I don’t see him getting close to 200.
If you bend to the temptation to play it safe with Joba’s starts and leave him in to the 7th – that’s only fine if you’re ok with him breaking any reasonable innings limit or if you’re ok with bringing up Hughes at the end of the year to take Joba’s starts.
Otherwise you’ll need to use Joba for only 5-6 innings per start and then bring in your best option for innings 6 and 7 to throw those high leverage innings.
Not an easy call – but that’s the trade off given that Joba has some kind of innings limit.
That potential bullpen roster is the weakest looking group we’ve had in years. This more than anything keeps the Joba/pen story going.
Giuseppe —
Robertson averaged almost two innings per outing in the minors and more than that when he was in college. With the Yankees he went two innings five times and he allowed just two earned runs in those outings (1.80 ERA).
There is no question he can go 3-4 innings at a time because he has done so most of his pitching career.
Patrick,
Yeah, it’s the last few years I’m talking about. I have a very, very short term memory.
Another thing on the wish list is for the Angels to have a down year. I’m sick of seeing them and hearing about how they’re such a wonderful organization (they are, but I’m still sick of it).
Ervin Santana having some elbow trouble. He was their #5, if he’s a no go who do they have to step in? Is he the one who had a really good bounceback season after a bad ’07?
I really love the Yanks pen options, but it doesn’t sound like Alabadejo has a shot to make the team. Too bad – I like him a lot. I’m not a fan (he’s ok) of Ramirez and it sucks that incumbents have the advantage even if they aren’t that good. I like Robertson – he does have a good arm; however, isn’t his control a little suspect?
Coke is really impressing me, despite myself. I still want to see more from him, but I like him a lot – what a valuable weapon he can be. Did this guy come out of the blue? Was he just a mediocre starter who simply blossomed because he was shifted to the pen?
What I liked best about Girardi’s use of the pen is that he instilled confidence in these guys by not sending them to the doghouse after one or two bad outings. It sends a message to the players – hey, we believe in you, we trust you. If you don’t get it done this time, you’ll get it done another. The importance of this message can not be overstated because confidence plays a large part in a player’s success. Girardi having faith in these guys frees them up from putting inordinate pressure on themselves….
CB -
Good point about the innings most likely being high leverage innings after Joba leaves (at least we hope they are
). I agree you’d much rather have Coke pitching those innings than the long man. The discussion we’re having about Coke is why I think he can be such a valuable piece of the pen for us. Has the nasty stuff to just come in and get a couple tough lefties or come in and throw 2 innings. That’s a very valuable piece.
I’ll take those guys over Myers, Farnsworth, Britton. My goodness. The bullpen’s a question mark because it’s like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get. But worse in years? I don’t know about that.
“Yeah, it’s the last few years I’m talking about. I have a very, very short term memory.”
My point was that Torre had virtually the same bullpen in 2007 that Girardi had in 2008 yet Girardi did a much better job, proving that Girardi is better at managing a bullpen.
In fact, I would contend that the bullpen in 2007 had more talent than the bullpen in 2008. Joba was there for longer, Vizcaino was there. Veras, Ramirez, Bruney, and Farnsworth were all available in 2007 but Torre never used them properly. A year later Girardi comes in and does more with less.
Patrick,
Hello? I’m talking about the last few years of interleague play. Not the bullpen. I think you’re getting me mixed up with someone else.
But I agree with you, no matter who was in the pen, Girardi’s already proven that he can leverage the talent better than Torre could.
CB/SJ, what do you think of the Yanks’ long man options? Does Tomko have a chance of beating out Geise/Aceves?
m -
Santana’s actually more like their #2. Big loss for them if he’s out for an extended period of time. They’re talking about going with their young guy Nick Adenhart to replace him right now. Adenhart has really good stuff, but he struggled last year at both the AAA level and in the bigs. He could be dynamite, but he’ll have some growing pains as well.
rodg,
Thanks for that. I thought he was a #2 talent-wise as well, but on the telly they called him a #5.
What’s their rotation and who’s their closer? I don’t know if the kid with the long last name is ready to be thrown in the fire.
Oh, I forgot to add Ronnie Villone to that list of better thans. I think he’s with the Mets now?
Robertson averaged almost two innings per outing in the minors and more than that when he was in college. With the Yankees he went two innings five times and he allowed just two earned runs in those outings (1.80 ERA).
———-
Throwing 2.0 IP is different than throwing 3.0 IP or 4.0 IP.
Girardi never let Robertson throw more than 2.0 IP during his stint in the bigs last season.
And since Robertson is a guy who not only strikes out a lot of hitters – but he walks more than his fair share as well.
For that reason, he throws tends to throw 15+ pitches an inning – which means he’s not likely to throw more than 2.0 IP.
Girardi has said that Coke is a “half long man” and described that role as someone who can throw 2.0 IP on a given night.
This is not the same role that Giese/Tomko/Aceves are competing for. They are competing for the typical long man role of someone who can throw 3.0 IP – 4.0 IP.
m -
Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Mosley, Adenhart is most likely their rotation right now.
Brian Fuentes is their closer with Arredondo and Shields in reserve.
Every reliever with the exception of maybe Marte, should be able to throw 2 innings. That’s not considered a “long man”.
rodg,
Thanks for that. Weaver’s #2?
Did I completely forget the fact that Fuentes signed with the Angels? Wow. I must really be zeroing in on the Yankees. Fuentes in the 9th could be a problem.
That potential bullpen roster is the weakest looking group we’ve had in years. This more than anything keeps the Joba/pen story going.
————
Actually, this pen has the makings of being the best one they’ve had since the dynasty years.
Just watch. You’ll see.
People don’t see marque names in that pen and don’t think it’s worth snot. Well, that’s where people are wrong.
They were very good last season and will perform better this season without such a rough workload.
The incumbents did well for Girardi last year… why should he discard them for unknowns?
What I find annoying (though hardly surprising) is articles like the Jayson Stark’s piece on ESPN.com yesterday which was basically one big valentine to the Red Sox. Naturally some anonymous scout raves about their chemistry, their pitching (yes, Smoltz is going to be the pick up of the last two centuries), etc……Why aren’t we seeing similar articles on the Yankees? Oh I forgot – because the Yankees spent a lot of $$$ on pitching – that casts a shadow on everything. CC has gotten worse in pinstripes because he has a big contract, AJ lost his talent between Toronto and NY and Texeira is now viewed as a Red Sox reject (because, after all, they didn’t offer quite as much $$ as the Yankees, so therefore there must be something wrong with the guy). As others have mentioned, if the Yanks signed all the players that the Sox did this year and not CC, AJ and Tex, they would have been roasted over the coals.
I respect the Red Sox a lot (and the Rays), but it almost seems like the media loves to write negative things about the Yankees, like they can’t admit that this is a very good team.
“what do you think of the Yanks’ long man options? Does Tomko have a chance of beating out Geise/Aceves?”
I’m not particularly convinced that the yankees need a long may to begin with this year.
Last year with Hughes and Kennedy having a long may made sense.
This year they have 4 pitchers who are going to give them innings barring injury and then Joba.
I don’t see that staff having too many starts where they start getting bombed in the third or 4th inning and a long may is needed.
What I think would in fact be more valuable to the pen is to have more guys who can throw an effective 2 inning stint.
I think they may wind up using Andy this year a bit like they did Moose last year – they’ll let him throw 6 innings or so and then get him out of the game. Just a guess but I think they’ll try to avoid him having shoulder problems/ tired arm again and will want to get him out of the game with a lead.
So I don’t seen any of the staff going 3-4 innings very often at all. But I also see a staff where two of the pitchers aren’t going to go 7 innings very often. Maybe I’m wrong on Andy, but that’s my estimate.
Given that, having guys like Coke and Edwar, guys who can throw two innings is very valuable. You don’t want the long man throwing inning 6 or inning 7.
So on the whole I’d prefer them take Coke and either Robertson or Albabledjo rather than Coke or Aceves/Giese.
That said I think Girardi likes having that long man role – he talks about it all of the time – so he’ll have the conventional long man. I think it’ll be Giese. Don’t think Tomko has a real shot. Aceves still has options so he can be sent down without a problem.
If you take out the Angels games, Edwar had an ERA in the low 2′s…. saying he isin’t good is not accurate.
Whoever thinks this is the worst pen in years needs to share their pot with everyone. That is just absurd. I guess this is because Yankees fans can still be quite naive when it comes to their own team. Not a sexy group of names, but the best bullpens never are.
Your long man should be able to be an emergency starter as well and be able to throw 100 pitches.. which Tomko, Giese etc. have all done in the past.
And one of these guys will probably piggy-back Joba if needed, rather than Coke, depending on the situation.
Jay and Spotless, you guys are right. I guess I’m sort of overly excited about so many good young arms……and I did overlook Edwar’s #s against teams not named the Angels. I keep forgetting, frankly, that whoever doesn’t make the team will be in Scranton, only a quick phone call away from NY.
CB, good points about possibly not needing a long man this year. The worst case scenario came to pass last year – we can’t necessarily assume that’s going to happen this year, not with the staff we’ve put together.
m -
Yeah (that’s Jered Weaver BTW). That’s why Ervin was really their #2. Big blow if he goes down. Their bullpen can be scary good again this year, though. Fuentes/Arredondo/Shields is a very very formidable threesome. They always come up with other arms as well.
I think that Eddie’s had good “results”. I don’t think that many teams would have (or did) give him a chance because the fact is he only had one pitch. So, I guess that makes him an okay pitcher who gets good results.
There was a long time, though, where you didn’t know what he was going to give you. Sit down the side? Or serve up some meatballs.
What’s more bothersome is that he hasn’t shaken the shoulder pain he’s had since last season.
But on the flipside… what if one of the starters gets injured or is gone after the 2nd inning? Then you have to burn through the entire bullpen for 1 game that is a blowout and use your good relievers
I don’t think teams like carrying a long man… but it is pretty important just to save the pen in blowout games or injury shortened/ineffective starters.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_1.....ck_check=1
” Reality television shows have a penchant for breaking up marriages — Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey, Hulk and Linda Hogan — but no one with the Rochester Red Wings and Minnesota Twins seems concerned that a season of cameras following Minnesota’s Class AAA affiliate will have ill effects on the teams’ seven-year union.”
this will be a PBS 13 part series on the rochester red wings, the twins triple a team. this will be the ultimate inside look at triple a baseball. i’m excited about it because stan cliburn the red wings manager is a good friend.
he really is a very unique person . one story stands out about him in my mind. in the ill fated senior league where he ended up the all star catcher, he had been away (at a funeral i think) for a few days and arrived back to the team in the middle of a game at McKechnie Field in Bradenton,Fl . the bullpen pitching mounds and plate were on the field down the first and third base lines.
i was warming up a pitcher ( first base line side) when stan came with catching mitt to protect my back and the pitcher from balls hit in our direction. he had a bat in his free hand which was kind of odd.( later he told me it was a hint to the manager( clete boyer) to have him pinch hit).
when our pitcher finished warming up to go in for the last inning and sat down. stan said to remain standing there. well, we are standing what seemed about 45 feet behind first base on the field in the middle of a game. i was feeling pretty self conscious i’ll tell you.
he just stared at the opposing pitcher in a kind of trance taking it all in. i had no idea what he was doing. the inning ended and our pitcher went in. clete motioned for stan to come to the dugout.
the game was tied in the ninth inning. the other team was retired with no runs and clete sent stan in to pinch hit. the pitcher was the same one as the previous inning that we had watched from behind first base at the bullpen plate.
stan on the first pitch hit a home run winning the game.
that’s stan. it seems that a lot of people are going to get to know him next winter on pbs. he’s won over a thousand games in the minors and is nothing but a class act as an ambassador for the game.
K-Zone,
Then you put out the Batman signal. Or should that be Kei-Man signal? That game where Igawa shut down Boston after Karstens went down is still one of my favorites.
If we’re looking worse case, then I bring up Aceves as the long man. He’s efficient, works fast, and gives innings.
He doesn’t need to go to AAA to “develop” like the younger guys do.
He’s pitched for years, so I think he could handle the challenges of getting inconsistent work.
I wish Nady & Swisher could be combined into one complete player. Nick Nady.
Robertson is like most of our other arms… excellent swing and miss stuff with suspect command. And it’s not like he needs adjustment to the majors either… he had spotty command in the minors as well. His stuff moves so much, he has trouble commanding often times.
That being said, he is still better than Albaladejo just because of his swing and miss ability. He has more potential than Edwar as well.
Does Melencan have a chance to make the team?
Very interested to see what Joe does about Swisher/Nady.
Robertson is not a long guy. Its a big difference to go from pitching 2 innings on a given occasion to pitching 4 innings in one outing, not pitching for 10 days, and then pitching 3-4 in another. That’s traditionally a longman’s workload. If he has to pitch more frequently, it means your starting pitching stinks.
Its why you see teams lean to veterans for that role. They are better able to handle the infrequent appearances. Its also not the way to develop an arm like Robertson (or Aceves for that matter) a team believes has upside.
That’s why I think Aceves will be in the AAA rotation and the long man role will be between Geise and Tomko.
You don’t need an all star in that role. You need a servicable veteran who can handle the infrequent appearances and pitch effectively.
Guiseppe,
Good point re: MLB Network. When I saw the 30 in 30 piece on the Yankees, and the panel opine about the bullpen, I knew these guys paid little or not attention to their performance last year or who they have in the pipeline for bullpen duties.
I’ve noticed a dangerous trend lately. Too many members of the media now act like uneducated fans. If there isn’t a “name” player at a position, its automatically assumed that position is a weakness on a team. Nothing can be further from the truth.
I also get a kick out of injury predictions. According to uneducated fans and some members of the media, its a foregone conclusion AJ Burnett will end up on the DL and ALL of the Yankees injury questions will be answered in the negative. Whiny Yankee fans or folks that simply hate the Yankees are like sheep with this prediction and follow it to the bitter end.
In the same breath, we read/hear how “wonderfully” the Red Sox filled their holes with players, all of whom have significant injury histories. Many more significant than the Yankees who are injured right now. Yet, ALL of their players with injury histories will work out, while none of the Yankees injured players will work out.
Its a foregone conclusion in the eyes of many in the media that John Smoltz will be a “force” this year.
A 42 year old pitcher, who has had 6 elbow operations and major shoulder surgery will be a “force” in the AL East.
I wonder if he signed with the Yankees if these same folks would have the same opinion on him? My guess is no.
Fact is, NOBODY knows what’s going to happen in the future. If you did, you would be picking MegaMillions winners every week and living on your own tropical island.
You just have to sit back and enjoy the ride. I don’t think anybody would have predicted the Netherlands beating the DR not once but twice to advance in the WBC.
As the old saying goes, “That’s why they play the games”.
Does that mean Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne are due for a breakup?
How about the midget couple on TLC?
Aside from that blurb about their rotation being more October ready (which is true)… the rest of that article was awful. I’m disappointed that Stark stooped to that level of sensationalism.
“Hello? I’m talking about the last few years of interleague play. Not the bullpen. I think you’re getting me mixed up with someone else. ”
My fault, I was having two or three discussions at once. Yeah I agree, the Yankees haven’t done well against bad NL teams in the past few years.
the yankees pitching is going to be downright nasy this year with many more in the minors.
if hughes keeps pitching well he will be a very nice replacement for pettitte next year.i believe he has turned the corner.
The thing with Burnett is that he changed his approach last year. He learned how to pitch, instead of trying to throw heat all the time. So hopefully that translates into another healthy, successful year for him.
When did Girardi say was the goal to get Mo in a game? By Monday?
randy l
Thanks for the heads up. I’m a sucker for shows like that.
I even watched the documentary/reality show last year about the Cape Cod League.
On the bullpen, this is basically the same group that did fine with Farnsworth in the mix before it collapsed in August, which is when our season fell apart. The September numbers were better, but guess who was back in the fold for most of that month?
Also, the White Sox ditched Marte because he was prone to fold in pressure situations. Pittsburgh was a good place for him to land. The 8th inning in the AL East, not so much.
Rotation, good by any standard. Bullpen, wide open for discussion.
SJ,
Totally agree on the media’s perception of the pen.
No marque names = big holes
Sadly, even Jim Kaat has gotten into the act a little bit because he’s made th same argument.
So would the perception of the media be more positive regarding the pen if the Yanks still had Farnsworth pitching late in ballgames instead of guys like Bruney, Coke, and Melancon when he’s ready to contribute?
Sadly, the answer is probably yes.
The 17th, Steve… Not sure what day that is
I’m going to put Tomko ahead of Giese as the long man. for the final two spots I’d say Robertson & Coke. That gives us:
Mo, Bruney, Marte, Veras, Coke, Robertson, & Tomko. Then you have Albaladejo, Ramirez, Melancon, Aceves and Giese down in Scranton if someone goes down. Pretty deep if you ask me.
“On the bullpen, this is basically the same group that did fine with Farnsworth in the mix before it collapsed in August, which is when our season fell apart. ”
Uhh.. were we watching the same team last year? You are totally wrong IMO.
SoS,
Re: Melancon. I think they’ll give the guys who did it last year a chance to succeed.
But if anyone can’t hack it, in the words of the infamous Michael Kay, “Seeee Ya!”
However, if Ramirez is a no-go because of his shoulder and Melancon is absolutely overwhelming batters, who’s to say they won’t take him north? Don’t you want to start with the best team possible?
Re: Aceves. I think he’s #7 on the SP depth chart, so SJ may be right in that he’ll be in AAA getting ready for any call that comes.
Marte’s ERA is under 2 as a Yankee if you take out the 10 days after his 46 pitch performance (when he took one for the team) in Texas. He pitched very well as a Yankee, save for the 10 days when his arm had no life to it and got rocked in a few appearances.
Relief pitchers are like hitters. They will go through slumps. Nobody’s bullpen is perfect. Its always a volatile mix.
Take Edwar for example. If they don’t pitch him against the Angels, the one team that owns him, he’s been a rock. The perception is, he’s not good because of the way the Angels have belted him around. However, if you examine his numbers more closely, he’s been outstanding with the exception of his outings against the Angels.
A guy who, if used properly, is a real weapon because of his changeup.
Overall, the bullpen pitched very well last year. Especially when you consider 3/5th of the rotation consisted of Rasner, Ponson and Pavano for the last two months of the season, a wounded Andy Pettitte, no Wang after Mid-June, and Mike Mussina, who was basically a 5-6 inning pitcher last year despite his 20 wins.
That’s a lot of work on a bullpen. That’s why only Texas and Baltimore starters threw fewer innings than Yankee starters last year.
This year, you have a balance of power arms (Veras and Bruney) 2 lefties (Marte and Coke), a dedicated long man (Giese or Tomko), young guys with great potential (Ramirez, Albie, Robertson and Melancon) and the best closer in the world (Mo).
When you add in more quality innings from an enormously improved rotation, that seems like a pretty darn good pitching staff to me.
That AAA rotation has the potential to be berrrrry good.
Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy/Igawa (don’t laugh at the reigning Int’l League POY)/?
The bullpen looks like Albaladejo, Edwar/Robertson, Melancon?, Sanchez (hope he can pull it together).
Bullpen numbers in the month of August:
Bruney – 3.46 ERA
Veras – 5.54 ERA
Robertson – 8.18 ERA
Edwar – 6.94 ERA
Marte – 7.71
Even Mariano blew his only save in August.
randy l.
The Triple AAA Rochester Red Wings, eh? Sounds interesting, maybe a little Bull Durham meets MTV Road Rules meets the Real Housewives of New York
“In the same breath, we read/hear how “wonderfully” the Red Sox filled their holes with players, all of whom have significant injury histories. Many more significant than the Yankees who are injured right now. Yet, ALL of their players with injury histories will work out, while none of the Yankees injured players will work out.”
I see you’ve read Jayson Stark’s piece on ESPN.com yesterday. I’d love for someone to give me an honest reason why the Red Sox are such a media darling and why their 2009 team is so much better then NYY. I don’t see it.
(And I did see it last year, so it’s I don’t think I’m being a homer)
its great to see Mussina come and say hi. he’s also helping out by wearing a ford t shirt. way to go mike, auto workers need all the help
Our pen was worked last year. And Girardi deserves credit for managing the pen. We had two garbage (Rasner/Ponson) starters last year, and an ineffective Andy Pettitte down the stretch. The team was lucky to get 5 innings a start, with the exception of Mussina. You just can’t put the pen in that spot on a nightly basis.
SJ, Giuiseppe — Again Robertson averaged more than two innings in his college career… averaged. He also averaged almost two (1.9) innnings in his first two pro minor league seasons.. averaged. That’s about 135 outings over four years averaging better than two.
If a guy can successfully average two innnings an outing there’s no reason to think he can’t go 3/4 innings. Just because he hasn’t done it in the majors yet doesn’t mean he can’t.
That said, I think the Yankees starting pitching is too good to need a designated long man. Assuming they go with 12 pitchers (and I wouldn’t) it appears Rivera, Bruney, Coke and Marte are locks. That leaves Veras, Robertson, Albaladejo, Edwar, Melancon, Aceves, Tomko and Giese for three jobs.
I’m guessing Aceves is a starter and Melancon the closer in Scranton. I’d keep the first three, send Edward and Giese to SWB and give Tomko lovely parting gifts.
The problem with Igawa, is that he doesn’t throw a major league chaneup.
There is a very good reason why the bullpen blew a tire in August. The workload caught up with them.
You can’t keep using a bullpen for 25-30 innings a week and expect guys to hold up over the course of a season.
The starters have to go deeper in games for a bullpen to hold up over the course of a season. By August, the Yankees basically had a rotation consisting of 4-5 inning starters. No bullpen holds up over time being overworked.
This year, the potential is for it to be different. You have 4 guys in the rotation capable of pitching 200 innings.
Put it another way. The odds are strong that AJ Burnett will be more effective than Darrel Rasner in the #3 hole. CC will pitch more innings than Sidney Ponson and Wang, if healthy, will pitch more innings than anybody else who threw for them last year.
The Yankees have quality arms in the bullpen. They also have depth. More depth in the ‘pen than either Boston or Tampa.
The key is not to overwork them, especially early in the season.
If the starters do their job, this bullpen will be a dominant one.
lol. Boston having their own battle of futility (like our own CF competition). Lugo & Lowrie competing for SS.
It’s gonna come down to Giese or Tomko and Robertson or Ramirez.
Actually Igawa does throw a major league change up. Unfortunately he calls it a fastball
m,
Do they only have 4 men rotations in the minors?
I would think Edwar should start in the minors. Being he hasnt seen anytime yet and Melencon takes his spot.
86,
Your argument is flawed. You are automatically assuming that its easier to stretch a guy like Robertson out to 4 innings because he’s pitched 2 in the past. That’s not how it works.
In fact, he would become more effective if he pitched less and not more.
Once you start stretching guys out into 4 inning territory (approx 60 pitch outings), he’s in essence a starting pitcher. Robertson isn’t a starter.
Mark Melancon also pitched a lot of innings last year, used similarly as Robertson was for stretches in the minors last year, and nobody sees him as a longman.
The key is putting a guy in his most effective role to help the team. In Robertson’s case, I don’t think having him face a turned over lineup is the best way to use him. That’s what would happen if you make him a 4 inning/longman type of guy.
Clay Buchholz Loves Laptops – Latest Blog Entry: The Mike & The Mad Max Show?
March 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
SJ44,
Do you have a baseball background? Just curious.
______________________________________________________
Clay,
I’ve been doing some research and using my supior deductive reasoning to figure out who SJ really is. If my calculations are correct (and i’m sure they are
) SJ is none other than the Yankees play by play man Michael Kay.
Ha! Got you SJ or should i say Michael!
Even if the starters average an extra inning a start, it will help the pen. Wang & Sabathia can eat innings, so I can see them pitching into the seventh inning with regularity. If Andy & AJ can go six or seven strong a start, that should be good. The pen will have to work when Joba’s pitching, just because of the innings limit. But I feel that any one of our pitcher’s is capable pitching a complete game when they’re on.
Robertson will probably take edwar’s spot since he’s already on the 40 man.
Its such a bummer that CC’s games are not televised.
“Igawa (don’t laugh at the reigning Int’l League POY)”
I cant believe we cant get something good in a trade for a POY.
“You just have to sit back and enjoy the ride. I don’t think anybody would have predicted the Netherlands beating the DR not once but twice to advance in the WBC.
As the old saying goes, “That’s why they play the games”.”
sj-
i was watching the game played last night again this morning trying to see what it was that the netherlands did that allowed them to do what they did. they pitched and played defense extremely well. they also seemed very well coached with blyleven .
the offensive power of the dominicans were nullified by the good pitching . this may give a clue how to develop teams. perhaps if the mlb hitters saw these guys more they’d have no trouble, but with unfamiliarity in their favor and with their good stuff, the dutch pitchers dominated.
it really may be easier to develop a young team around pitching than hitting because of this . teams like the marlins have used a similar strategy at the mlb level. young hitters don’t really sneak up on a good mlb pitcher the way a young pitcher with good stuff can sneak up on a good mlb hitter.
and then there was the defense. the netherlands played very good no name defense. i was impressed.
Ryan,
That makes sense.
Locks:
Mo
Bruney
Marte
Semi-lock:
Coke
Veras
TBD:
Ramirez/Robertson (depending on Eddie’s shoulder)
Giese/Tomko
They’ll likely throw Tomko out for extended innings as pitchers leave camp. If he still has a sparkling ERA, he’ll probably get it. I don’t think even Tomko thought he’d have a real chance at it. Should be interesting.
SoS,
I can tell you make your living on the phone. There’s a question mark (?) in that rotation after the reigning POY.
“Actually Igawa does throw a major league change up. Unfortunately he calls it a fastball.”
Good one, 86w183!
“Actually Igawa does throw a major league change up. Unfortunately he calls it a fastball”
lol. Its the major leagues bigger balls that make it look like a fastball.
My question is has anyone been watching Igawa lately? His stuff was gold yesterday and his ERA after 3 starts is a 0.00.
I know everytime he gets brought up he is AWFUL, but do you think he’ll get another shot this year?
“Clay Buchholz Loves Laptops – Latest Blog Entry: The Mike & The Mad Max Show?
March 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
SJ44,
Do you have a baseball background? Just curious.”
Clay,
If my calculations are correct, SJ is none other than Yankees play by play man Michael Kay!
HA! figured you out huh SJ, or should i say Michael
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
Recap of Mo’s bp session. A little on Eddie there, too.
It will be a little harder for Igawa to get a shot this season because he’s no longer on the 40-man roster.
I don’t see them giving him a roster spot over someone else.
m,
That hurts. I thought the question mark meant you werent sure if he should be in the rotation or if he really won the POY or was it a honest mistake. Spell it out for us phone people next time.
m,
Tomko definitely looks good. I was suprised to see that he had good stuff and threw 93. It’s still only March 11th tho and I can’t count Giese out, he was pretty solid last yr and I bet he’ll start pitching well down the stretch.
If the bullpen blew up in August because of the rotation, how was it better in September with the same rotation? Maybe because Joba was there?
The better rotation this year will obviously help, but a lot of games will still come down to the last two innings. The only question mark is who takes the lead role in the 8th inning. With this group, the proof will have to be in the pudding because no one has a very reassuring track record yet.
Speaking of Buchholz, he had a great day yesterday.
What’s Boston’s rotation? Smoltz is out until June and Penny’s just beginning to throw now.
Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz?, Masterson?
I feel like I’m forgetting someone from last year’s rotation.
Is there another Yankee reliever more underrated than Edwar
Last year hitters had a .215 batting average against Eddie and he struck out more than a batter per inning. Oh yeah he’s terrible.
lester
m
Lester
pat,
Duh. How could I miss that one?
So it’s Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, and Buchholz with Masterson to the pen. Can’t see why they’d put Masterson in the rotation over Buchholz.
thanks, bru
I wouldn’t put Tomko in the long man/spot start over Geise. I have no more faith in him than I would in Ponson. They’re the same pitcher. Tomko has a mid 90′s fastball that stays on the straight and narrow. If he accepts a minor league spot, fine.
At the end of ST, there should be needs for bullpen help and starters, because of injuries. NYY should look to find teams that are close and use the excess to fill position holes in the system. Luckily, they are starting to fill those spots with fine, young talent, but most are at least 2 years away.
M,
Any update on when single game tickets will go on sale on yankees.com? I heard March 15th, is that still true?
Thanks!
the great obsession is one big reason I had to quite listening to ESPN radio and switch over to Fox. Granted you’re going to get your blowhard personalities on any sports radio station but at least with the Czabe I can get some sports, some funny material and virtually no over the top Red Sox bias on my way to work.
Man, the insults are starting early today!
Calling me Michael Kay, geez! lol
I guess its better than calling me Mike Francesa but, not by much!
Randy,
Their pitching is really impressive. Especially impressive considering some of those arms were in the Gulf Coast League last year.
Its funny, Bert Blyleven is probably better known as the “guy who draws the circles” on Twins broadcasts to most fans today than the guy who is a borderline HOF pitcher.
In this era of pitching coaches trying to sound as if they are MIT grads, Bert comes down from the broadcast booth and takes a staff of nobodies and turns them into an effective group with simple philosophies.
Get ahead, work quickly and work both sides of the plate.
One of the things that gets me increasingly angry is how complicated some people want to make the game out to be these days. It ain’t complicated folks. Its just baseball.
In fact, the simpler you can teach basic, fundamental pitching philosophies, the faster you can develop your talent.
That’s why I like Scott Aldred so much. He keeps it simple and consistent and that’s why I believe he’s going to be a very good major league pitching coach one day.
n/p
i am not so sure buchholz has the 5th spot.
i think it is
becket
dice
lester
wake
penny unless buchholz or masterson earn it
If the bullpen blew up in August because of the rotation, how was it better in September with the same rotation? Maybe because Joba was there?
———–
Don’t forget the September call ups. There were a few reinforcements to handle the workload – including Coke – who didn’t make his major league debut until Sept 1st.
Joba only threw 11.1 IP during the entire month of September.
Is Tomko on the 40-man?
raymagnetic- Edwar is too feast or famine IMO. I love his high K/9 and filthy change but the games where he doesn’t have it he typically costs us the game.
gameday anyone?
“The Triple AAA Rochester Red Wings, eh? Sounds interesting, maybe a little Bull Durham meets MTV Road Rules meets the Real Housewives of New York ”
murphydog-
stan cliburn is a real character too and made for something like this. he’s as solid a baseball person that there is, but he has also, shall we say , lived life to the fullest. recent winters he went down to Venezuela to manage when a lot of americans wouldn’t go. he is very much a risk taker, and he hates losing with a passion.
he often ends emails with ” never lose your edge”. i suspect this phrase or one like it will be heard more than once in the series.
if you think about it, this is a risky thing for stan to agree to. he would have no trouble managing a mlb team, but hasn’t been able to get that opportunity so far. this show could make or break him as far as getting that opportunity.
knowing stan , i do not think this show will be boring.
bru,
I was assuming that Penny wouldn’t be ready or at the very least stay off the DL.
Masterson had a pretty good run in the pen and if Buccholz could get over his bad start (with the exception of the no-hitter) it would be scary indeed.
Does anyone know what Cano’s numbers were in the WBC? Didnt get a chance to watch him. Does he look any different this year(supposidly working on his hitting this winter)?
SJ, CB, Randy I,,,I watched a kid throw the other day, his name is Tyler Matzek….Tall lefty for Capistrano Valley HS….Man this kid id sensational…There’s talk about him being the best pitcher in the country and hasn’t committed to any colleges as of yet….Anither one to watch who I saw pitch is Austin Romine’s old teammate, Chad Thompson….He had 121 k’s last season and he’s in a premier league of big schools….I’m going to check them out either today ot tomorrow at the Newport Elks Tourney….Ah baseball is upon us….
Sign Mark Grudzialanek!!!
It’s threads like these why I enjoy this blog. A discussion about the bullpen candidates heading into the season, rather than A-Rod, steroids, union issues, etc.
Just a thought, but I think Robertson has the potential to be a Scott Shields type with the way his stuff dives and darts. He’s got a live arm.
As for Melancon, remember, he was coming off of Tommy John surgery last year, and was so efficient he often threw multiple innings because he kept his pitch count so low.
He is a beast, pure and simple. He is the most obvious candidate to take over for Mo once he decides to hang em up.
Also, don’t pay attention to what ex-major league ballplayers who are now “analysts” say about the Yankees bullpen, or anything else for that matter.
They don’t value statistics because they don’t “mean anything” and they don’t bother to look at the downward trajectory of veteran players, many of whom, they are friends with.
Even Harold Reynolds, who I like, talks about Ken Griffey Jr.’s current ability as if he were still 24, bouncing off walls at the Kingdome and knocking 40-HR a year.
Pay no mind to the John Kruks and Rob Dibbles of the world, it will give you an inner peace.
“The problem with Igawa, is that he doesn’t throw a major league chaneup.”
Igawa doesnt throw a major leauge anything!
The bullpen got their second wind in September when guys, like Marte for example, got some rest. It happens.
They only lost 2 games last year in which they had leads after 7 innings. Two. That means, the bullpen did its job.
In fact, when you break it down further, since Mo only blew one save last year, that means they only blew one game in which the 8th inning guys didn’t do their jobs.
If they get that kind of bullpen effectiveness this year, and the starters stay healthy and effective, this is a playoff team, with a real chance at going to the World Series.
I’m not sure if SJ is Michael Kay or not. I’d guess no, considering SJ sounds intelligent compared to Kay. Then again, so does my pet fish. I will say that maybe SJ might note that this is a comments forum, not a sermon or lecture forum. SJ makes terrific points, but a little less pontificating, please.
IRod did some damage to the bullpen last year.
Can someone please link a Gameday?
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....b_detmlb_1
Who will have the better year Matsui or Posada?
PAT M, did you see where Austin Romine’s brother, Andrew, is in camp with the Angels?
What’s the pitch count on Sabathia today?
40?
45?
Probably no more than that.
“I don’t care that the Netherlands won”
“I don’t care that it was one of the biggest sports upsets”
“I’m not gonna talk about it, because i don’t care anything about the WBC” – Mike Francessa
___________________________________________
jack@ss
Interesting question, SoS. On the one hand, you can say Posada will have the better year because he’s simply the better player. On the other hand, Matsui’s injury was less serious than Posada’s and as the DH, he’ll have a less demanding role. From a purely statistical point of view, I’ll say Matsui has the better numbers this year.
Vinny . .Mike is a joke . .Lets talk about Depaul and Providence for 5 hours .! GIVE ME A BREAK ! .
Way to go Melk, Damon, Teix and Swish! Hopefully CC pitches well.. its too bad this game isn’t on TV or radio.
Sounds like Melky is really trying to add a speed dimension to his game. Unfortunately, it’s almost too little too late for him.
He’s also pretty wreckless on the basepaths at times – like being thrown out trying to steal AND getting picked off on Sunday.
“jack@ss ”
He doesn’t have to talk about it, it’s his show after all..
ditmars1929,
I concur. I think Matsui is going to have a monster year.
Looks like you got the gameday link.
Went back to last night’s thread to look for one, and I stumble across an MVP debate? Lucky thing I wasn’t around for it. It could’ve gotten nasty!
Wade is one of the best players in the league, no question. But he’ll have a tough time against the LeBrons if they meet up in the playoffs.
No, Wade is not a ref-created phenomena. But he was given his due via NBA marketing before he earned it. And that may, or may not have, led to an NBA championship. Youtube “phantom calls dwayne wade” for the proof. All the star players get calls, but no one gets more calls against the other team when he’s the one spinning out of control than Wade does.
Wade’s great, but as far as Kobe & LeBron are concerned, he can have the MVP, they want to go all the way.
GB, I did see that, he played under the radar when compared to Austine……GB, this kid Matzek is special,I can’t wait to see him throw in a game…But I watched his bullpen session ( with many scouts both pro and college ) and he throws 4 pitches with confidence and authority….I spoke with a few OC scouts who work for the mlb scouting bureau that I knew from my coaching days and they say he’ll be a top 5 selection and could be the #1 pitcher selected come June……Another name mentioned was beau Wright from Los Alamitos HS
Gameday is at a snails pace for me. If anybody is getting it better please live blog.
For minor league games gameday usually updates at the end of a half inning.
“He doesn’t have to talk about it, it’s his show after all”
yes it is his show. Never mind, if his listeners/audience may care to discuss it. A King waiving off his servants analogy (which someone had posted) is right on.
time to turn him off. Had to check for any Kellerman news.
gameday has stalled.
eh I don’t have the patience to sit through Gameday I’ll check back in here for Petes updates.
“Get ahead, work quickly and work both sides of the plate.
One of the things that gets me increasingly angry is how complicated some people want to make the game out to be these days. It ain’t complicated folks. Its just baseball.”
sj-
keeping things simple is a gift. i do think with statistical analysis playing an ever increasing role in the game, it is more important than ever to remember that keeping it simple is often a good thing. simplicity doesn’t mean dumb. just as complexity doesn’t mean smart.
the trick is adding the analysis and still keeping it simple. i didn’t think about the twins connection until you mentioned it with blyleven. i was in stan cliburn’s office once after a game when he was sending in garza’s stats after a game that he was taken out by stan in the middle of an inning after 78 pitches.
i asked him about it and he said if he had gone another 5 pitches with him he would have been fired. as he typed away on the report, i asked him if the twins paid a lot of attention to sabermetric stuff. he responded with” saber what ?”
the fact he was was inputting info on a laptop and that there was a program and plan for garza shows the twins value data. the fact stan didn’t know the term” sabermetrics” showed they keep it simple at the same time.
the way the twins develop young players feels very different than how the yankees have done it in the past. maybe now the yankees are catching up, but twins players when they come up are on the same page as the parent team and can help immediately.
i think the old school approach of teaching fundamentals and keeping it simple are a strength of the twins. blyleven seems to have passed this on to the netherlands team.
Sabathuia – 1 IP, 1 BB
Ransom made an error too
I think they should show the games live on lohud….they do it for the local hockey teams, why not for the yanks.
“I don’t care that the Netherlands won”
“I don’t care that it was one of the biggest sports upsets”
“I’m not gonna talk about it, because i don’t care anything about the WBC” – Mike Francessa
========================
Francesa is missing out. Initially I had no interest in the WBC, but hot damn..some of the games have been fun to watch. I’m still in shock the Netherlands won last night.
Callers asking Fatcesa about Kellerman already.
Mike just said – no comment on Max and said that he’s known max since he was a kid. Surprised everyone immeadiatly places Max on his show.
ok Pete, we get it…you know the actual names of all former and present yankee players. bravo….youre gay
Pete doesn’t blog like he used to
What did Francesa say about Kellerman in response?
Well Francessa did nothing to dispel the Mike and Mad Max potential show
PAT M.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
GB, I did see that, he played under the radar when compared to Austine……GB, this kid Matzek is special,I can’t wait to see him throw in a game…But I watched his bullpen session ( with many scouts both pro and college ) and he throws 4 pitches with confidence and authority….I spoke with a few OC scouts who work for the mlb scouting bureau that I knew from my coaching days and they say he’ll be a top 5 selection and could be the #1 pitcher selected come June……Another name mentioned was beau Wright from Los Alamitos HS
————————————————————
Matzek sounds like somebody to watch for….unfortunately as he pitches for another team, huh? Maybe his asking price will be too high for other teams, but, I doubt it.
Haven’t seen much on Andrew Romine, but, saw his numbers. Defense looked ragged, but, 62 steals and walks/low strikeouts is impressive. How’s his power/exra base power?
Is Beau Wright another of Clyde’s kids?
Francesa sucks
‘Francesa is missing out. Initially I had no interest in the WBC, but hot damn..some of the games have been fun to watch. I’m still in shock the Netherlands won last night.’
I know, I’m waiting for the next game already, how could he be pushing College basketball over this ? No offense to Big East but right now WBC >>> March Madness, too bad the radio hosts don’t give the games it’s justice. I’m gonna be honest I didn’t watch one basketball game last night, not one.
Mike just said – no comment on Max and said that he’s known max since he was a kid. Surprised everyone immeadiatly places Max on his show.
=======================
Oops. Didn’t see this post. Thanks
“Francesa is missing out. Initially I had no interest in the WBC, but hot damn..some of the games have been fun to watch. I’m still in shock the Netherlands won last night.”
I agree with you, but remember, we have an open mind about things. If Mike watches or talks about it, then it’s proof that he was wrong about the WBC. He cares more about whether he’s wrong or right about something than what is good sports talk. His ego comes 1, 2 and 3, then the benefit of the show and station comes next. Of course, Mike thinks everything he does is good for the show and the station.
Can’t get wrapped up in March Madness this soon.
Francessa is too arrogant to appreciate the WBC… he thinks he is above it and is isin’t real baseball.
randy,
Once you started talking about the Netherlands team I KNEW you would somehow relate them back to the Twins. Well done.
Francessa had a bad night last night. Joba pitched well as a starter, and the WBC was exciting as hell.
Pete, when does Alan James pitch again?
Mike F is not talking about the WBC BUUUT
How has the coverage on this blog been? Pete actually posted his Joba update in the ninth inning of the NED DR game- he could have waited til the game was over or joined in the fun – and it was fun.
How Bout some more WBC updates?
Who’s more obnoxious? Kay or Francessa.
Tough call, one doesn’t like condiments. The other doesn’t like the WBC.
“Can’t get wrapped up in March Madness this soon.”
Are you joking? Right now IS March Madness. The conference tournaments are going on right now and selection Sunday is days away!
Big east tournament is way more important than the WBC right now.
I must say I was disappointed to stay up late last night just to watch Cuba come back and beat Australia.
Cuba was really falling apart and completely lost their composure. They were damn lucky to pull that one out.
Australia has a pretty good fundamental team for a bunch of nobodies – just like the Netherlands.
What happened to Verlander? This guy was becoming the next great pitcher after 2 great seasons and has some of the best pure stuff in the game.
I think they should make the mlb all stars game like the did with hockey a couple years back.
North America vs. The World or North and South vs. World.
Maybe that would get the competition juices flowing.
Does Max like the Giants or Jets?
Big Handsome -
He pitches on Saturday against the Astros. The game is on YES.
If anybody cares Detroits 97.1 is streaming the game 4-0 yanks bottom 2
Does the Netherlands have one more cinderella day in them? Can they upset P.R.?
Max is a Giants fan
How can someone not like condiments? Mind boggling.
Is the Big East tournament even on TV? I thought everything was online?
Most of Francesa’s opinions are fueled by his ego and inability to believe in non-big name players or events.
For example, Francesa believes that the Yankees need a big-name CF and should trade for Nate McLouth.
Francesa says Gardner is a “punch-and-judy hitter who can’t get on base.” If Francesa has actually seen Gardner’s minor league stats (which he hasn’t), he can in fact take a walk and get on base. And Kevin Long really has done great work on Gardner. He no longer flails at the ball and hits pop-ups, now he stays back on the ball and is able to use his lower half as leverage, and hit the ball square and on a line.
And let’s not even get started on his asenine opinion of Joba.
Max is a HUGE Giants homer… and as a Giants fan, I love it.
Y26
March 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
What happened to Verlander? This guy was becoming the next great pitcher after 2 great seasons and has some of the best pure stuff in the game.
———————————————————–
His curve ball quit curving, his slider quit sliding and his fast ball quit fasting.
Y26,
Don’t know (and I suspect nobody does) what happened to Verlander.
I don’t know if I’ve seen a team fall as long and hard as the Tigers have. Who’s at the helm (haha randy l).
Rogers is gone. Bonderman having the same symptoms Rogers had. Verlander’s a mess. D-train is d-railed. They traded away some good arms.
Max would put Francessa in his place so often, his ego couldn’t deal with it. He’d probably retire.
He can’t handwave his co-host.
“Once you started talking about the Netherlands team I KNEW you would somehow relate them back to the Twins. Well done.”
patrick-
i didn’t realize it until sj mentioned blyleven being a twins announcer. never underestimate the collective value of the blog
Swisher with another K…
I really want him to win the job, but he has done nothing to win the job from Nady except walk.
lol francessa killing the WBC,
“Of course, Mike thinks everything he does is good for the show and the station”
and for the world.
King Francesa does not care about the WBC!
If you walk in a run, that shouldn’t be an unearned run.
Jason -
Did you get the stream to work? It’s just playing ads for me.
m -
A run that scores on a walk is earned.
Mike does make some valid points about the WBC
BUT it does not matter.
The players think its important and fans are having fun – that’s all that matters. More and more people are getting into it each day.
It’s 4-2, bottom of 2nd inning, Inge doubles in a run. It’s official now. Sabathia is a flop.
Sweet hire Max now so the FAN finally has someone that likes the Giants and not the team that Parcells coaches or runs
rodg,
Maybe the gameday guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s showing 2 ER runs. The first guy reached by error. But the rest was on Verlander.
I think Sheffield just hit a bomb. No idea what the score is.
Not a good day for CC
Sheffield homers. 4-3, NYY
DFA CC
6 hits and 5 runs – Per Sweeny Murti (I think I heard that right)
“It’s 4-2, bottom of 2nd inning, Inge doubles in a run. It’s official now. Sabathia is a flop.”
GB,
We cant trade his contract. So theres only one other option left. C.C. for the 8th inning.
CC sucks. What have we gotten ourselves into.
Just kidding. Can’t wait for Melancon. Steven Jackson might be pretty close to the big club as well.
Ewww. What an outing.
I hope his arm isin’t giving him trouble after the 250 innings last year… we cannot afford another slow start out of him
“I don’t know if I’ve seen a team fall as long and hard as the Tigers have. Who’s at the helm (haha randy l).”
m-
huh?
GB, I don’t there’s any relations to Clyde…Old Clyde has to be in his mid-late 70′s…..Last time I saw Clyde was at our Little League opening day back in 2000..And was showing his age then, if you know what I mean….Good guy though
cc getting rocked, PUT HIM IN THE PEN
Ooops. (For CC)
“i didn’t realize it until sj mentioned blyleven being a twins announcer. never underestimate the collective value of the blog
”
Haha..
You are right though, the Netherland team was very impressive and they showed some of the same qualities that the Twins excel at. Pitching/defense
The Twins don’t get as much hype as some other teams and they don’t get the recognition a guy like Billy Beane gets but they usually put together a very good team. Like you said, they keep it simple and it works for them.
I’m all about stats but even I agree, stats aren’t everything. Just one facet of the game.
Maybe Sabathia will now have to battle Hughes for that rotation slot.
m -
The scoring is right. Berroa reached on an E, so if he scores it’s always going to be unearned. The run Cash scored is unearned because the inning would have been over before he scored had it not been for the E (count Berroa as an out, Pena makes the 2nd out, Melky makes the 3rd). The run scoring on a walk didn’t make it unearned…it was the error to begin the inning that ended up making it unearned.
GB, where are you watching and/or listeing to the game?
GB, where are you watching and/or listeing to the game?
And it all means nothing.
Can’t wait for George King’s story in the Post tomorrow:
“CC will have to prove himself in his next outing”.
Move over Joba crisis-we will now have the great CC panic
Igawa has pitched well. CC better not think he has his rotation spot guaranteed.
Why does the name Scott Williamson sound so familiar?
Anyone know What is the name of the DR national paper or website is?
CC got shelled.
randy l,
Who’s at the helm of the Tigers? Dombrowski, right?
Maybe CC should drop a pound or two. FAT.
I tend to agree with Francesa on the WBC…it is more of an exhibition than a real event…but that is the best baseball can do. However, if it was real, nobody would touch the United States.
CF Sizemore
2B Utley
1B Teixeira
3B Rodriguez
DH Howard
RF Hamilton
LF Braun
C Mauer
SS Jeter/ Rollins
SP- Lincecum
SP- Oswalt
SP- Sabathia
RP- Lidge
CL- Papelbon
You think that team would lose a game???
Can’t wait for George King’s story in the Post tomorrow:
“CC will have to prove himself in his next outing”
==========================
LOL
How long before Francesca says C.C to the bullpen. I’m not joking.
Francesca: “How about no starting pitchas, the Yankees should just go all bullpen..
What’s funny is that while the regulars on here are having fun with CC’s bad outing, its only a matter of time before some folks panic over it.
Like George King for example.
If Joba was “pitching for his job” last night (according to George) I can only imagine the “analysis” he will give to CC’s perfomance tomorrow.
PAT M.
March 11th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
GB, I don’t there’s any relations to Clyde…Old Clyde has to be in his mid-late 70’s…..Last time I saw Clyde was at our Little League opening day back in 2000..And was showing his age then, if you know what I mean….Good guy though
————————————————————
Yeah, Clyde would be 68 now. He was a pretty solid pitcher on some bad teams. He was a lot like Fritz Peterson. I figured that he got a bottle of Viagra and a young wife and went on his honeymoon.
rodg,
Thanks.
Stephen A. Smith is filling in for Kay?
160 million for this? Cashman try to trade him for Scott Rolen!
Even better. Can’t wait for Mr. GLoom and Doom himself, Joel Sherman’s take on it. His headline: “Yanks Should Hope for CC opt out after 3 years” LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
gees Steven A. Smith on ESPN
Sabathia needs to by the long man and spot starter. That’s just awful. If it weren’t for the rest of his contract, I’d release him.
SJ, Giuseppe —
Had to leave for a couple of hours but wanted to continue our discussion.
SJ, you are the one who’s missing the point. You know how many times in 162 games the Yankees had one reliever throw four innings?
Twice!
Your “traditional” role for a long reliever went out with the four man rotation. Nobody carries a guy with the idea of only using him once every other week for 4 innings.
Since Robertson has averaged two innings an outing for most of his baseball life I submit he could be the guy to pitch four innings the two times a year the Yanks may need a reliever to do so.
Sabathia needs to ***be*** the long man
Of course, at 6’7″, I guess he’s already the long man and will be spot starting every 5 days.
CC should just pull an Ankiel and stop pitching altogether. Challenge Nady and Swish for RF. After all, the guy hit a 455 foot HR last season…
I think perhaps Marte might be better down the stretch this year too. When they got him from Pittsburgh last year, he already had a lot of innings on his arm. He was THE guy there – and was used accordingly. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t he almost at the max for innings pitched per year based on how many he usually pitched?
I’m thinking Girardi having him for the whole year this year, will be better able to space out his innings over the course of the season – so that he’s not reaching his limit by August. Just my 2 cents.
You think that team would lose a game???
———–
Crazier things have happened.
Did anyone think there was a snow ball’s chance in Hell that the Netherlands would beat the Dominicans – not once but twice?
The most talented team don’t always win.
Detroit station can no longer stream Tiger games (for free)
Look at the note above their “Listen Live” link –
*Due to MLB regulations, 97.1 The Ticket cannot stream Tigers games*
“Igawa has pitched well. CC better not think he has his rotation spot guaranteed.”
George King.. is that you?
“Mike does make some valid points about the WBC
BUT it does not matter.
The players think its important and fans are having fun – that’s all that matters. More and more people are getting into it each day”
regarding the “WBC games don’t matter” debate. Well when it gets down to it, do any baseball games really matter? After all, the purpose of baseball is entertainment. The WBC is a tournement, requiring all competing teams to play by the same rules. Because money is exchanged in professional ball, does this make professional baseball legit, at the same time preventing WBC from being legit?
“What’s funny is that while the regulars on here are having fun with CC’s bad outing, its only a matter of time before some folks panic over it”
No funnier than people going ga-ga over good spring training outings.
Yup.
Start worrying about CC.
And, while you’re at it, start betting on Alberto Gonzales to win the NL batting title. After all, he’s hitting over .400.
Tomorrows headline will be. “Was C.C. on steroids all these years? or Yanks should have signed Penny/Smolts instead.”
Steve,
100% correct. It works both ways. The same people who brush off CC’s start are the same ones who went ga-ga over Gardner, Joba, Garcia, Coke, Claggett, , etc. last night.
Your “traditional” role for a long reliever went out with the four man rotation. Nobody carries a guy with the idea of only using him once every other week for 4 innings.
———-
That’s not true. Most teams have a guy in their pen who they have designated the long man.
There is no way Girardi is going to let Robertson throw 4.0 IP. It’s not going to happen.
He throws too many pitches per inning and he’s never done it in the bigs.
Doing it in college and doing it against major league hitters are two different things.
College coaches don’t care about overusing their kids.
If CC’s bad outings don’t count, why should Hughes’ good ones?
Either ST is relevant or it isin’t.
Wow, CC got rocked today.
That’s not unusual for Sabathia. Detroit has hung about a 15.00 ERA on Sabathia in the last two years.
i wonder how many “fans” came here to sincerely post some “the sky is falling” post because of CC’s outing only to second-guess their decision because of all of the mockery/sarcasm going on. hopefully it’s every single one of them!! Anyway, here’s my take on situation…
TRADE CC! BRING BACK PONSON!!
“The most talented team don’t always win.”
Yankee fans dont need to be reminded of that. Its been happening to us since 01. This year will be different though.
Spring training for me:
Good things that happen: “That’s nice”
Not-so-good things that happen: “Too bad.”
Low Key.
I don’t get too excited nor too upset about anything. Just hope for no injuries.
“Either ST is relevant or it isin’t”
it is only relevant/irrelevant if the player is unproven or recovering from injury. Basically.
Aceves give up a HR and double
Boy, this long man competition is going to come down to who is the least mediocre.
“Either ST is relevant or it isin’t”
The only relevent thing in ST is how good is bunting is? Gardners in serious trouble.
“Boy, this long man competition is going to come down to who is the least mediocre.”
Igawa is beaming right now with todays happenings.
a
CC just can’t hack it in the rotation. The pressure is getting to him. Time to save his arm and move him to the 8th inning. The bullpen is weak, you know. We need that bridge to Mo.
Doreen,
Precisely the way to be.
Good performances or bad performances don’t matter. They are meaningless.
In order of importance are: good health, and guys getting ready for the season. That’s it.
The results are meaningless. I know there is a segment of the fan base that will never believe it but, that’s the way it is.
Just give me good health from hereon out and I’ll take my chances with this team when it starts the season.
Attention: Chicken Littles.
Choose one of the following and run with it:
1) CC is done.
2) CC forgot how to pitch.
3) CC must be injured from all those innings over the last few years and those starts on short rest down the stretch.
4) CC was over rated and the Yanks overpaid for him.
Can we trade CC for Ras?? Although they may mistake CC for Godzilla
CC’s first spring training start? Second? I had CC in a fantasy league last year, and he stunk up the joint in teh first 3-5 starts, just awful starts getting shelled by bad AL central teams. Yet he finished the year with sparkling numbers, that’s how good he pitched the rest of the season. Be patient with this guy as he builds his strength back up. He is a stud!
Well there is a slight difference between getting excited about results compared to getting upset over bad results. It’s okay for people to get excited about Gardner because there are some serious questions regarding his ability to play everyday. I wouldn’t put a ton of stock into him playing well, but it’s a good sign that he has some ability.
In regards to CC or Joba pitching poorly, these players have a track record of success, CC more than Joba obviously. We know he can get it done in the majors, so unless he’s hurt there is no reason to panic over a bad spring outing. It’s also nice to see Hughes use a new pitch effectively because we don’t know if it can get hitters out. We do know Wang can win games with his sinker, so if it gets smacked around in a spring outing, it’s not a big deal.
‘Stephen A. Smith is filling in for Kay?’
Stop joking w/ me
The only time I start looking seriously at numbers in ST is from 15 March on….the last two week. The rotations will be getting their innings and will be finished with the arm strengthening, and the good hitters will be playing longer and more often. The only ones I look at more closely are those fighting for jobs and putting up numbers not based on inferior competition.
The only time I start looking seriously at numbers in ST is from 15 March on….the last two week. The rotations will be getting their innings and will be finished with the arm strengthening, and the good hitters will be playing longer and more often. The only ones I look at more closely are those fighting for jobs and putting up numbers not based on inferior competition.
Why doesn’t CC get the same angst as Joba over a bad start?
8 years – 117 wins. 254 major league starts.
2 years – 6 wins. 12 major league starts.
Six years from now Joba can have a rough ST start and no one will bat an eyelash.
The current angst comes with the territory – especially after the bad taste of youth 2008.
Swisher hitting .125… looks like Nady has a comfortable lead for the RF job
“the Netherland team was very impressive and they showed some of the same qualities that the Twins excel at. Pitching/defense”
patrick-
since you are stat savvy, let me run this by you. it’s often said that good pitching beats good hitting.
here’s my thought and excuse the lack of clarity if i have trouble expressing it.
if the best hitters get hits 3 out of ten times and make outs 7 out of ten times, wouldn’t it be easier to magnify the 7 outs that hitters make than magnify the 3 hits the hitter gets?
in other words, pitchers are already getting 7 outs. if you make the pitcher improve 10% , that would be 7/10 of an out better . so the hitter is now hitting .230.
if you make a hitter 10% better he would be 3/10 of a hit better . so the hitter is hitting .330
improving getting outs 10% seems to be more effective than increasing hits 10%. the result is a .230 average( .070 decrease) vs. a .330 average( . 030 increase)
intuitively, it seems that it’s easier to improve pitching than it is to improve hitting. so when a team has limited resources , investing in creating outs for the other team is easier than in investing in creating hits.
does that make any sense ?
SJ, you just know people are going to be worried about CC’s workload – every bad start, every bad inning means the end of the world. To be honest, I’d be very nervous if CC or anyone else were picture perfect in ST. It happens, deal with it. Good pitchers have bad starts occasionally – they have fewer of them than bad pitchers, that’s the difference.
I will say that Aceves is doing nothing to help his cause -though I always thought people were overrating him based on a few starts last year.
top CF’s in history. MLB Network ‘Prime 9′
1) Willy Mayes
Jim Edmonds
2) Ty Cobb
3) Mickey Mantle
4) Tris Speaker
5) Joe Dimaggio
6) Ken Griffey JR
7) Duke Snider
9) Kirby Puckett
That’s fine to say, Giuseppe, but where’s the evidence?
As I wrote, the Yanks had an individual relief pitcher go four innings twice all year and that’s with about as poor a group of starters you could imagine. No Red Sox reliever or Rays releiver went four innings in any game last year.
The modern “long” man is a three inning guy. Robertson has pitched three innings at multiple levels and stretching him to three innings or even three+ once a month is no big deal.
You and SJ have the right to disagree, but you can’t backup your position that the Yankees “need” a 4-inning long man with any facts.
UPDATE, 2:37 p.m.: 6-4 Tigers middle of the fourth. The Yankees left the bases loaded in the fourth when Swisher left to left.
Nady breaths a huge sigh of relief (i mean not like he has to, its his job anyway but still)
randy l -
which is why it makes more sense to load up on pitchers than position players?
REZ
March 11th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Swisher hitting .125… looks like Nady has a comfortable lead for the RF job
———————————————————–
Yeah, Nady’s .211 makes him the run-away favorite.
Part of spring training is loosening up muscles that aren’t often used off the field of play.
After last October, CC had little reason to whip his head around rapidly, which he will occasionally have to do to watch Jeter, Cano, and Gardner/Melky make sparkling defensive plays. Aside from quickly looking behind him to see if those phantom West Coast Team Offers had arrived, CC probably didn’t look back all that often from November ’til Spring Training.
So today CC gives up a few hits and bombs and now his neck muscles are closer to in-season shape.
CC better not get off to a slow start like last yr because of the heavy workload… the team needs him, and he himself needs to get off to a fast start to avoid the booing and media lashing for his own well-being.
What is the Hollis Queens reject doing on my radio !
Just go man ! just go away !
Randy I, In a Casey Stangel wsy,it makes perfectly sound sense….Kidding about the Casey thing….
Giese pretty much has the long man spot. Don’t think they want to open up a 40 man just for Tomko.
I see folks already deciding that Swish sucks based on a .125 BA in spring. Are you actually concerned that he’s going to hit that badly in the regular season? It’s not like he’s a high average guy anyway – what is the big deal? He has shown a great eye this spring – that’s important. Patience never goes into a slump – we can count on Swish to get on base even if he’s not hitting.
Skip Bayless actually said that last night’s Netherlands Win over DR was Bigger than the USA beating the Russians in the 1980 Olympics.
What an extreme a hole.
Last nights game was great and a lot of fun but ………what an extreme a hole.
Brandon -
Stephen A. Smith is like the fly in the room… you can get rid of him temporarily, but he always finds a way to keep coming back.
The only important thing for CC today is that he walked off the mound healthy. Everything else really does not matter.
On another topic….Anyone else surprised on the ejoyment level of watching the WBC? I am not sure if I am baseball starved but I am stunned how much I have enjoyed the WBC. Perhaps it is like going no carbs and then finally ordering a friday night pizza. (Yes, GB a Vinny-GO-GO’s pie)
-dennis
This is the beginning of the decline for CC. He is washed up, forgot how to pitch, and breaking down from all the innings over the past few seasons. OH THE PAINNNNNN
I haven’t followed CC’s career closely enough to know whether he starts slow in the season, but didn’t he start the season last year something like 0-7.
But still ended up having a very good season.
“randy l,
Who’s at the helm of the Tigers? Dombrowski, right?”
m-
yes , but weren’t you trying to tease me with that fact? i don’t get the connection.
that could be me though. i am making more coffee as we speak
Girardi and Cashman have hyped Swisher as a “super utility” guy all winter and this Spring too… unless he had a great Spring, he was never going to take the job away from Nady.
QUESTION:
Is it too late to try to trade CC?
ST is okay. Working out the kinks.
WBC – now THAT’S what rocks! Can’t wait for tonight’s game.
(Whoda thunk it? Certainly not I.)
God the idiots are back on the radio !
FatBoy on WFAN put Joba in the BP nonesense.
Screamin A Smith w/ the stupidest put him in BP arguement.
FREAKING MORONS
“This kid belongs in the bullpen. There isn’t even a question.” 1050 ESPN
Someone get me a barf bag
Another HR given up by Aceves.
Dan Giese rubbing his chin with a grin on his face…..
Last season CC was 0-3 13.50 after four starts and 3-8, 4.81 after 13 starts. Let’s hope he’s better than that this year…. otherwise the Yankees might actually need a long reliever to go 4+ innings regularly.
“Skip Bayless actually said that last night’s Netherlands Win over DR was Bigger than the USA beating the Russians in the 1980 Olympics.
What an extreme a hole.
Last nights game was great and a lot of fun but ………what an extreme a hole”
Skip backed the Jets all year (even tho they didn’t deserve it). Not able to hate him
Penny may start on the DL (though the first game where they need a 5th starter isn’t until around the 15th)
Beckett
Lester
Matsuzaka
Wakefield
Penny/Masterson
early word is that Masterson will get the starts and not Buchholz. I think they feel they rushed Clay and that led to his tough 2008 season.
The fact that Brad Penny is already injured is key. If Boston has to use Masterson in the rotation for any extended period of time their bullpen will suffer quite a bit. Masterson was HUGE for their pen last season.
“I haven’t followed CC’s career closely enough to know whether he starts slow in the season, but didn’t he start the season last year something like 0-7.”
Great, just what we need, a slow starter while ARod is out of the lineup lol
Penny is going to pitch in an intrasquad game on Thursday according to the scroll on MLBN.
FWIW, I am completely confident that CC is going to be an ace for us from the first day he plays in a regular season game.
I think I am basically immune to worry, but with my eyes wide open. That’s why I allow an exception when it comes to any thought of Ian Kennedy.
Swisher left to left? Wtf? =))
(I’m watching MLBN right now – Seaver’s 300th win game – Gooden must have been pitching for the Mets somewhere else and they keep talking about how incredible he is. Sigh)
“On another topic….Anyone else surprised on the ejoyment level of watching the WBC? I am not sure if I am baseball starved but I am stunned how much I have enjoyed the WBC. Perhaps it is like going no carbs and then finally ordering a friday night pizza”
Dennis: The WBC made a believer out of me in 2006. At the time, i went into it with an identical mindset/attitude of many on this blog. Basically regarded it as a hinderance. Then the games began…
Bayless would be right… IF the Dominican team had spent years playing together and planning to peak for this event every four years like the 1980 Soviet Hockey Team.
Of course they didn’t, and of ocurse the most unlikeable person on ESPN or any other network is typically dead wrong.
Sheffield is just pissed and wants to show the Yankees he can hit a HR despite sucking against the rest of the league.
dennis-costanza(sox fan)
March 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
The only important thing for CC today is that he walked off the mound healthy. Everything else really does not matter.
On another topic….Anyone else surprised on the ejoyment level of watching the WBC? I am not sure if I am baseball starved but I am stunned how much I have enjoyed the WBC. Perhaps it is like going no carbs and then finally ordering a friday night pizza. (Yes, GB a Vinny-GO-GO’s pie)
-dennis
————————————————————
What I miss about living in austin, Texas (besides the scenery, ladies and music, is Conan’s Pizza. Have never had a Vinny’s though, but, I’ll give them a try. Love the sandwiches from Schlotzky’s.
They’ve got what 3 more starts each?
not worried yet
“Does anyone know what Cano’s numbers were in the WBC?”
=====================
http://mlb.mlb.com/wbc/2009/st.....p?team=wbc
Sheff gave a thumbs up to CC when asked about what it was like to play in NY.
86w183
Thanks for acknoledging
Plus there was a little thing called the “Cold War” going on and images of nuclear anniliation in the culture.
Miracle on Ice!
randy l-
What you said is intuitive. Since the pitcher is more successful getting the hitter out (even if you use OBP instead of AVG which I would have done
). An improvement in his performance will have a greater negative impact on the hitter than an equal improvement by the hitter. This is why the old adage ‘good pitching beats good hitting’ holds up most of the time. However, your statement of
“intuitively, it seems that it’s easier to improve pitching than it is to improve hitting.”
I’m not sure that’s true. Of course it’s more beneficial to improve pitching, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily easier.
“Randy I, In a Casey Stangel wsy,it makes perfectly sound sense….Kidding about the Casey thing….”
pat m-
i was aware i was going out into unfamiliar territory there- baseball player trying to think etc.
… but if there are always more outs than hits, in my simple minded way, it makes sense it would be easier to increase outs because outs are a bigger number to start with.
there i go channeling casey again, but does that make sense to you?
the netherland/ dominican republic games are a perfect example of this is it’s true. they were able to get pitchers who could get more outs than you would expect. and i do think blyleven had something to do with this with his approach that sj alluded to.
this is my “7 is bigger than 3 ” theory. i’m waiting for patrick to tell me some whiz at baseball prospectus has a name for this. though i may have confused him so much he had an aneurism trying to understand my logic.
Bye gang. Yankees will win their 27th title in 2009.
See ya for the WBC tonight. ST, yeah it’s okay. The WBC? NOW THAT ROCKS!!!
GO BASEBALL!!!
There is something so absolutely positive and uplifting about teams like the Netherlands and Australia winning WBC games. Are the tough guys from the other teams (aka predicted to win) a little too confident? I don’t know. But I know that having underdogs win the kinds of games that the Netherlands won last night really does a lot to expand the horizons of this great game of baseball and to have the world community linking hands a little tighter during some very uncertain times. When all else fails, there’s baseball.
Bernie Madoff, you may tried to take down the world but you didn’t totally succeed! We still have the WBC and we have baseball.
I love it.
after watching Kei Igawa yesterday I began to wonder…..why would the yanks pay over 100 mill for a pitcher that tops out at 90.
I thought it was an accepted fact that Skip Bayless is a blithering moron who should not be listened to under any circumstances. Am I wrong on that?
So CC got smacked around, Aceves has been ineffective, Ransom had a fielding error… thank got its Spring Training.
Oscar Gamble had the number “0.” Any other player ever take that number? Pretty cool. “0″ for “Oscar?”
Screamin A. Smith not that much of a fan of the WBC
oops!
for some reason the link didn’t stay filtered.
Select DR under the team stats to see Cano’s numbers.
GB.
We actually like screamin mimi’s the best. They are from NJ and make the closest thing to a NY style pie. They are also constantly annoyed and you get mistreated as soon as you walk in so you get the northeast feel as well..
Mimi’s is on Oglethorpe near the Police station.
-dennis
86w183,
You believe what you want. But the facts show that Robertson was not used for more than 2.0 IP in any outing last season with the big club.
Girardi has also made it clear that he wants to take a “long man” up north with the big club and that battle is between Giese, Tomko, and Aceves.
His “half long man” is Phil Coke at the moment.
It appears that Girardi has no intention of using Robertson for a long man role. His max is going to be 2.0 IP.
But, again, you believe whatever you want.
Penny to pitch Friday, not Thursday, in intrasquad game.
the yanks did not pay $100 mill for Igawa.. where do you get these #’s from????????????
“We just spoke to CC. He feels fine, he just had trouble locating balls to both sides of the plate and couldn’t locate his cutter with two strikes. That’s usually an out pitch for him”
It sounds like he has a labrum tear. I would get that checked out.
‘Screamin A. Smith not that much of a fan of the WBC’
He sounds like an idiot/hypocrite/loud mouth jacka…
He sits there and defends Team USA basketball till the cows come home, but WBC means nothing because there is a MLB season and money invested in players ?
You dumb f… after Olympic basketball isn’t there an NBA season what’s the freakin’ difference !
Giese will go strong down the stretch and secure the longman spot
Giese will go strong down the stretch and secure the longman spot
I always loved Stengel’s idea of a platoon system. I remember when Hank Bauer hit homers in his first two at bats and in his third at bat against against a lefty, brought in a pinch hitter….A LEFT HANDED BAT and the guy hits a homer. When asked about pinch hitting for Bauer (who was really PO’d), Stengel said that Bauer’s luck had run out for the day. When asked why used a lefty pinch hitter against a lefty pitcher….his answer was because the guy hadn’t hit one off a left hander all year and was due. He always seemed to run things backwards, but, who can complain…it usually worked.
Oscar Gamble had the number “0.” Any other player ever take that number? Pretty cool. “0” for “Oscar?”
————
I know Al Oliver wore it in the 80s.
Randy I, When flashing signs you may have to slow down a little…..Hey what was the indicator again ???
Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan together with the White Sox in 1985???? I had no idea (a) La Russa had been managing that long and (b) Duncan’s been at his side for the duration?
I’m not worried about CC.
If he has trouble locating the plate, Guru Dave Eiland will have him visualize a fork and spoon on each side.
Let’s hope it is blip on the radar considering CC started slow last year too.
We can’t afford that. Thats what can sink us in the division more so than A-Rod’s absence.
I can’t believe people are actually worried about CC based on one ST start. In his career, I’m almost positive that there are many games like this (in ST) littered across his resume.
Aceves, on the other hand, should be concerning…..though, again, I think he was overrated to begin with. He had a few good starts last year and everyone all of a sudden thinks he’s something special. Anyone can have a bad ST, but he needs to show a lot more for me to think he’s going to have an impact this year. I know he’d just be a long man, but I would like even a long man to have a modicum of ability (I’m not saying Aceves doesn’t have ability, I just don’t know how much he has).
Swisher is not going to hit .125 this season (nor is Nady) and Brett Gardner is not going to hit close to .400 (he won’t even get close to .300). At least Swish’s approach is still basically good (witness all the walks) – that’s the important thing.
“It sounds like he has a labrum tear. I would get that checked out.”
This stupid extremely stupid, stupid man
Not a good sign that he gets pounded if one of his pitches isin’t working for him…
I’m starting to wonder if CC’s numbers were that inflated by pitching in the NL.
I’m assuming it was Dave Duncan – LaRussa came out to argue a play at the plate and a guy came out with the name “Duncan” on this back.
Interesting game. Martin was not happy with the way Cowley (sp?) was pitching and you could tell he was itching to get him out of the game. While he wasn’t great, he was in control of the game. The bullpen really blew that one.
Seaver looks like a 20-year old even in ’85.
They also showed Rizzuto getting knocked down by the cow.
“Does anyone know what Cano’s numbers were in the WBC?”
He was 3 for 13. All singles. Couple runs, no rbi. 1 walk, 1 strikeout.
a poster on the yank board said cc pitched bad, because somebody started a barbecue and cc got hungry
Pedroia says Jeter can’t do push-ups as well as him. Makes sense. Short arms start you closer to the ground.
http://community.nesn.com/blog.....24799.aspx
Girardi told Swisher had to win the job from Nady and he hasn’t.
Joe can’t just send Nady to the bench coming off a .205/25/97 year in favor of a guy who hits .219, especially since the guy who hit .219 still looks bad this Spring.
I don’t even understand what Screamin A. is screaming at about now. The man is going all over the place. lol
dennis-costanza(sox fan)
March 11th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
GB.
We actually like screamin mimi’s the best. They are from NJ and make the closest thing to a NY style pie. They are also constantly annoyed and you get mistreated as soon as you walk in so you get the northeast feel as well..
Mimi’s is on Oglethorpe near the Police station.
-dennis
————————————————————
I’m hesitant to say “Yeah, I know the place by the police staion”, because some smartazs will try connecting the two….me and the police station. I just usually have Domino’s deliver. Real embarrassing when you order a pizza, only to find out that you hit the wrong button on the speed dial and end up calling my regular escort service.
Swisher walked 82 times last year too and still ended up getting benched.
He has to hit, he can’t just walk. Walking has never been his problem.
1050 couldn’t find anyone better to Co-host than Stephen A. Smith?
Man, that station is going down the tubes…..
“I’m starting to wonder if CC’s numbers were that inflated by pitching in the NL.”
Dave- Don’t become one of those people. He won a Cy Young in the AL in 2007. He was great in Cleveland last year except for 2-3 bad starts. Of Course he won’t post a 2.00 ERA in the AL but he is certainly not gonna get shelled every time out either. Hes a great pitcher lets not second guess this signing 3 weeks before the season starts.
‘I don’t even understand what Screamin A. is screaming at about now. The man is going all over the place. lol’
It’s just hot air garbage, talking about the players in the WBC don’t really care about it. Is this dude serious !?
GB.
Is that a business plan? An escort service that delivers pizza? You are brilliant.
-dennis
Jack Clark wore a double zero with the Padres in 1990.
I guess Cliff Johnson, Jeffery Leonard, and Tony Clark also wore double zero at one time.
Don’t forget 3-foot-7 Eddie Gaedel – who wore No. 1/8 in 1951 for the St Louis Browns in his lone major league AB.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ent.3.html
Some people are worried about CC because he had the same problem last year where he was inept early in the season, feeling the effects of the heavy workload.
The guy threw 250 innings and pitched on short rest for 1\2 a month. He also led the league in most “effort” pitches (one of those sabermetric stats).
Is this a blip on the radar, or a pattern continuing from last year?
Stephen A needs to talk some NBA, thats the only thing he knows.
cc won the cy young in 2007. calm down dave
Giuseppe–
Maybe Girardi said that about a “long man” but that’s not the friggin point.
Besides, I’m not arguing with him I’m arguing with you. Again you fail to document the NEED for a 4+ inning long man because it does not exist.
Giese went four innings out of the pen ONCE all year. You do not tie up a roster spot for that job. the only reason he was on the roster was because the Yanks were loaded with five-inning starters.
I never said Robertson pitched more than two innings last year. I wrote that for his entire career he has averaged two innings and outing and that’s evidence he can go longer and has gone longer.
this whole discussion started when I pointed out that having two or three guys that can go two or three innings if needed was more important than a single designated “long reliever” who is rarely needed on a good pitching staff.
Don’t patronize me with teling me to “believe what I want”. Back up your arguments with facts or admit you are wrong. Yet I know that you won’t because you can’t.
dennis-costanza(sox fan)
March 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
GB.
Is that a business plan? An escort service that delivers pizza? You are brilliant.
-dennis
————————————————————
I’m thinking about it. Need to figure out what to charge and when to open for business. St. Patrick’s Day isn’t good because nobody will be sober enough to dial and too many girls open for business. I was thinking Good Friday. After two days, an hour in church will do them some good.
“I’m starting to wonder if CC’s numbers were that inflated by pitching in the NL.”
Sure they were. Doesn’t mean he can’t be, won’t be, or hasn’t been effective in the AL. He won’t post an ERA in the 2′s, but somewhere in the 3.25-3.60 range is probably going to be about right.
Melky Cabrera is 0 for 3 with a walk… who saw that one coming?
Stephen A. Smith is awesome. He brings fire, passion, swagger when discussing Sports. He thinks outside the Box and doesn’t care what people think.
I hope 1050 brings him back permanently to replace Kellerman
Giuesepe Franco =
Thanks, that was a pretty cool link.
‘Stephen A needs to talk some NBA, thats the only thing he knows.’
I continue to say what the hell is he doing on radio. He stinks on NBA too.
“The guy threw 250 innings and pitched on short rest for 1\2 a month. He also led the league in most “effort” pitches (one of those sabermetric stats).
Is this a blip on the radar, or a pattern continuing from last year?”
CC is what I like to consider a big powerful train that needs to get rolling before he can dominate. He just needs some time mind you its March 10th and he has always sucked against the Tigers this is nothing new.
CC just got shelled!! A-Rod is out until mid-May!! We might go 0-162…I knew we should have traded for Johan.
Long-time 1050 ESPN host Stephen A. Smith will guest host “The Michael Kay Show” this week Wednesday and Thursday joining co-host Don La Greca from 2-7PM.
You can actually watch him live on the internet in person today.
Most important part about CC: He pitches A LOT of innings and makes A LOT of starts. 90% of his starts are quality starts and he almost always goes 7 innings.
Have to give sabathia credit for giving a full answer, Mussina’s answer was usually, “Because I stunk”.
“He brings fire, passion, swagger when discussing Sports.”
Screamin’ it out loud doesn’t make him right. He’s one of those clowns who passes his opinion off as fact. Yelling is his way of distracting people from recognizing that 75% of what he’s saying is crapola.
Those of you who think Francessa or Kay are the worst…
Listen to Stephen A. Smith now for a few minutes and then re-consider.
Looks like Bruney and Veras had good outings today.
once again i ask: how does one find the gameday games? they are not where i usually find them. thx
Stephen A. Smith is the worst Carton is right behind him.
‘Stephen A. Smith is awesome. He brings fire, passion, swagger when discussing Sports. He thinks outside the Box and doesn’t care what people think.
I hope 1050 brings him back permanently to replace Kellerman’
Dude he sucks, he’s always sucked. This dude does not belong on sports radio !
Could you imagine an outfield defensively with:
Damon LF
Gardner CF
Melky RF
That’s one good defensive lineup.
Veras and Bruney – both throw clean innings with 2 Ks
“0” for “Oscar?”
’0′ is for the number of players who had cooler afros than Oscar Gamble.
’0′ is also for the number of players’ wives who sang the national anthem better than Juanita Gamble.
I can’t believe people are actually calling into Steven A. to talk about baseball… thats like calling into Francessa to talk about soccer.
Stephen A. should not be aloud to discuss anything other than NBA basketball. End of story.
No question CC’s NL stats (11-2, 3.65) were phenomenal and matching them is highly unlikely.
I’m sure the Yanks are looking for something close to the 2007 CC… 19-7, 3.21
“90% of his starts are quality starts and he almost always goes 7 innings.”
The 90% is totally false, but he is one of the few pitchers who has averaged 7 full innings per start over the past couple years.
Stephen A needs to stick with basketball.
Someone call SAS and ask him what his thoughts are on Mark Melancon
Santana is already breaking down. Hes also a year older than CC and having elbow problems. PASS!
one of the worst aspects of this blog, IMO, are the (select) people who not only rush to judgment but those who overrate spring training.
read through this thread for a minute. it’s pitiful.
first, it’s Joba, now CC. I doesn’t even make sense to qualify this discussion by saying that you aren’t worried about CC. Of course you aren’t. Only a complete moron would be.
Get a hold of yourselves. This blog during spring training games is about as bad as Boston sports radio callers.
The problem in sports talk radio right now is that anyone with personality doesn’t know what they’re talking about, and those who do, have no personality. Evan Roberts makes intelligent statements but is a bore to listen to. Stephen A. is loud, fiery, and funny at times, but a total moron.
“I can’t believe people are actually calling into Steven A. to talk about baseball… thats like calling into Francessa to talk about soccer.”
Or the Yankee Farm System.
“Stephen A. Smith is awesome. He brings fire, passion, swagger when discussing Sports.”
People who feel they have to yell to make a point usually don’t have one worth listening to.
Veras is narsty
Russell — I think you might see that outfield late in games on a fairly regular basis. That’s why I felt all along they should keep both Melky and Gardner and both Swisher and Nady. It assures you of a lot of flexibility, depth and the potential for late inning defense/offense depending on the situation.
“The 90% is totally false, but he is one of the few pitchers who has averaged 7 full innings per start over the past couple years.”
I was exaggerating of course but he typically goes deep and doesn’t allow more than 3-4 runs.
If CC wasn’t on a pitch count today, he would have pitched 7 innings and his line would have been 7 IP, 5 ER. Thats what CC does, he gets himself together and guts it out.
Boston Dave – you probably read my blog post. It was sarcasm, just to let you know lol
“Russell—- I think you might see that outfield late in games on a fairly regular basis. That’s why I felt all along they should keep both Melky and Gardner and both Swisher and Nady. It assures you of a lot of flexibility, depth and the potential for late inning defense/offense depending on the situation.”
That outfield is so good defensively they will probably be making infield plays as well. Gardner can play the entire OF himself. Kidding of course
another rumor to digest –
“There was talk at Dodgers camp that the Yankees might have interest in excellent contact hitter Mark Loretta, who could upgrade their third base situation. ”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1
‘0’ is also for the number of players’ wives who sang the national anthem better than Juanita Gamble.
Nick gets bonus points for knowing Mrs. Gamble’s name!
I just wish Oscar could have played on the same team as Scott Proctor.
Russell,
I know it’s a minority and didn’t even bother to see who was writing all the CC posts – probably the same people who were worried about Joba.
On one hand it’s nice to see so many passionate Yankee fans. However, we need to separate passion from insanity.
“I was exaggerating of course but he typically goes deep and doesn’t allow more than 3-4 runs.”
I hear you. He’s allowed 4 or more in 18 of his 69 starts. His QS percentage over the past 2 years has been about 70%, which is phenomenal. He’s a horse and he’s effective.
The Yankees bullpen was ridiculous last season. They were top 5 in innings pitched but somehow were 2nd in OBP against and 4th in OPS against. The starters were a disaster with Hughes and Kennedy not cutting it and Wang and Joba getting hurt. The lineup was a big disappointment with all the injuries and Cano forgetting how to hit. The bullpen was the only reason they were close to making the playoffs.
CC, Wang, and Burnett all pitch into the 8th inning frequently. That is going to be huge in making sure the bullpen is a strength again this year. The bullpen will need to get 3 outs to get to Mo when these guys start most of the time.
Could you have paired 2 more different personalities together than Stephen A. Smith and La Greca?
* Those stats are over Sabathia’s last two seasons.
* Those stats are over Sabathia’s last two seasons.
86w183,
Whether I feel the Yanks “need” a long man or not is irrelevant because Girardi is going to carry one anyways.
And, again, it doesn’t matter what Robertson has done in the minors or in college because that’s also irrelevant. That’s not how he’s going to be used in the Yankee bullpen.
Melancon often threw 3.0 IP and 4.0 IP in the pen last season. I can guarantee he’ll never be used to throw that many innings in a single outing this season.
I’m not going to bother to continue to discuss some fantasy scenario that isn’t going to happen because that’s not how Girardi is going to handle the pen.
So continue to believe whatever you like. Maybe you should call up Girardi and tell him how to run a bullpen more effectively.
sports talk radio = entertainment
and what makes good entertainment?
controversy, rumors, hating the Yankees esp. ARod
If you want the best actual news, blogs like Pete’s are way ahead of the curve. Disagree with him or not, Pete’s blog (and comparable blogs from beat writers around the country) are leaps and bounds ahead of the mainstream when it comes to real information and informed opinion.
“CC, Wang, and Burnett all pitch into the 8th inning frequently.”
Sabathia does. The other two don’t.
Agreed Boston… I don’t take Spring Training nearly as serious as my girlfriend… who thinks that because the Mets are winning games with walkoff hits in Spring Training with guys who won’t even make the team, have turned the corner and all of a sudden are going to be clutch and not choke lol
listen to Giuseppe -
he’s shown that he knows what he’s talking about
I wonder who this “Dodgers person” is.
“Cashman wants to guard against an overpay, and opposing teams will be looking to take advantage of the Yankees’ situation. Blake DeWitt is another Dodger who would make sense, but one Dodgers person suggested L.A. might want young pitcher Phil Hughes for DeWitt — which definitely would qualify as an overpay.”
pretty funny
Did Melancon have a 3 or 4 pitch inning?
NO YANKEE TEAM THAT HAS EVER LOST THIS MANY GAMES IN SPRING TRAINING HAS EVER GONE ON TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES……..EVER!!
TEAR THIS BABY DOWN AND START REBUILDING FOR 2010!!
ooops, CC ERa in the NL was 1.65.. sorry
Another scoreless inning for Melancon, although it may not matter.
He’s likely to be sent down to Scranton to start the season anyways.
Russell NY,
spring training is one thing. Spring training BEFORE March 15th is another.
Not only is this spring training but it’s the very beginning. It means even less.
p
I have a question for an old-timer. (peers over at GB)
Looking at the pic Pete posted of CC with the giant mummy looking ice bag on his shoulder – when did pitchers start icing their arms?
Did Cy Young ice his arm after starts? Did he lay on a giant block of ice?
Melancon gave up a hit, so it had to be at least 4 pitches
“Melancon gave up a hit, so it had to be at least 4 pitches”
Could have been a groundout, hit, GDIP on three successive pitches.
I don’t remember seeing DP in the gameday log,but that thing is so confusing.
Dave, I really hope you’re kidding about CC. Today’s start is a sign of……..nothing.
DT
March 11th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I have a question for an old-timer. (peers over at GB)
Looking at the pic Pete posted of CC with the giant mummy looking ice bag on his shoulder – when did pitchers start icing their arms?
Did Cy Young ice his arm after starts? Did he lay on a giant block of ice?
————————————————————
The first time that I remember pitchers using ice to a large extent was Sandy Koufax, who would stick his whole arm in a vat of oce water, because not just his elbow, but the entire arm would balloon up like a sausage, because of the arthritis.
He faced 4 hitters.
vat of oce water
If there wasn’t enough ***oce water***, he’d use ice.
Burnett pitched at least 7 innings in 15 of his starts last season.
Wang pitched at least 7 innings in 7 of his 15 starts last season and 32 of his 63 starts in 06 and 07.
Sabbathia had 24 starts with at least 7 innings pitched last season, so he’s on a different level, but Wang and Burnett are still going to come out of the game with 3 outs to get to Mo in about half of their starts. That’s pretty frequently as far as pitchers go.
NYYGuy, it’s a ST start – why is this even an issue? Are pitchers are now being held to the ridiculous standard that they have to be outstanding in every single start, including ST? Whew – if that’s the case, we ought to get robots to play the game instead of people. I
Anyone watching Seaver’s 300th win vs the Yanks om MLB network? I was at that game , lots of HOF’s played in that game. Fisk, Seaver, Rickey, Winfield, & Pasqua. J/k about the last one.
Steve B… Actually Wang and AJ both go seven innings or more about half the time. Wang for his career has made 95 starts, and went 7 innings or more 47 X. In the last three seasons Burnett has made 80 starts in 41 X he pitched 7 innings or more.
If the Yanks get 7 innings or more in every other game they’ll be very tough to beat… that is if the other half of the starts average around 5 2/3 – 6 innings.
Last year the Yanks averaged less than 5 2/3 innings per start (5.6) and only two guys (Wang 6.3, Pettite 6.2) averaged more than six. Mussina (5.9) was close… Rasner and Ponson were both below 5 1/3.
anybody know who the starting pitchers are for tonight’s
USA vs Venezuela matchup?
Russell NY, regarding Melky in right…I think that’s a great way to take advantage of the Melk Man’s arm & defensive ability while taking advantage of Gardner’s speed and range…my question is, why not do this all the time. would anybody take melky over swish or nady if you were presented with that option seeing as neither really lit it up at the plate last year?
Speaking of players wives singing the national anthem..Sheff’s wife did a pretty good job of it. I had to see her do it 2 times in 2 days during the Detroit playoff series a few years ago. She sang it then they called the game for no reason then she came back and sang it the next day in the makeup game.
WBC
One of Mike big problems with the WBC is guys like Piazza (last time) and Cervelli and others choosing to play for their “heritage” team. This is done with all International Competitions including the World Cup.
I think it is one of the coolest parts of the event and gives teams like Italy a few more quality players while giving a guy like Cervelli a shot to play.
RE: Ice Question – Thanks GB.
I searched Google, I guess there are pro-ice/anti-ice factions.
This guy was a pro pitcher (ok, maybe not a pro, he was a Red Sox..lol) and he is against using ice.
http://www.pitching.com/articl.....-not-nice/
I wonder if it is up to the individual pitcher, or if it varies from club to club?
Boston Dave,
The downside of sports talk radio is it takes a daily temperature of the sports scene. Fans of it, chime in and that’s when you read/hear the dumb comments that eventually get posted on the blog.
Baseball is not a game that takes well to daily temperature taking. Especially in ST.
That’s what leads to ridiculous comments such as, “Joba doesn’t care anymore”, “CC is shot because of his workload from last year”, etc.
On the flip side, it also leads to folks going crazy in the other direction. Such as “Christian Garcia is better than Phil Hughes”, and “Brett Gardner is going to be an all star”.
ST is in place for guys to get ready for the season. That’s it. If pitchers come out of their starts healthy, especially veteran pitchers like CC, that’s all that matters.
This team took a MAJOR body blow with Alex going down. Jeter is with the WBC and Cano and Marte have also been gone. Its a shell of the team that will be in place once the season starts.
Pitchers will have up and down performances and hitters will struggle. That’s all part of getting ready for the spring.
I want guys ready for the start of the season. I could care less about their spring numbers. Nor should anybody else.
Just do what’s needed to be done to be ready for Opening Day. The rest of the stuff is just noise.
looks like it is
USA – Ted Lilly (followed by Jeremy Guthrie)
Venezuela – Victor Zambrano (hee hee)
Buddy B -
I’ve been watching it.
“intuitively, it seems that it’s easier to improve pitching than it is to improve hitting.”
I’m not sure that’s true. Of course it’s more beneficial to improve pitching, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily easier.”
rodg12-
do you mean if we had two players on a team and one was a pitcher and one was a hitter, you aren’t sure which one would be easier to improve?
assuming they were equally easy to improve, then according to my idea we’d focus on the pitcher because, as you say, it’d be more beneficial to focus on the pitcher ( 7 being bigger than 3).
if pitchers and hitters are not equally easy to improve that’s a problem that goes into head ache territory for me.
we could assume they are just because it’s easier
but if it is harder to improve a pitcher 10% than a hitter 10% that alone would be interesting to know too.
Great article on Pujols written by Joe Posnanski. Man, he’s a great writer.
http://tinyurl.com/bwkjlb
Boston Dave.
I believe Ted Lilly is starting for the US and I am trying to search who is starting for Ven..
-dennis
Boston Dave,
Where did you find the matchup?
-dennis
SJ44,
to what degree, in your opinion, do the players even care about the early spring training games?
I know it’s about staying healthy and trying to get some timing for hitters or building arm strength for pitchers. However, do they players even care, in the slightest, about the results/stats of the games?
Also, some players always get off to good starts and others are notorious for slower starts. Do you have any thoughts about why that is? I imagine if it were simply a case of getting more offseason work in, that players would do it. So why the discrepancy?
as usual, thanks for the insight.
Buddy B -
Have you noticed — not once has anyone given a pitch count??????
dennis,
http://mlb.mlb.com/wbc/2009/ne.....8;team=usa
BD.
Thanks.
-dennis
“regarding Melky in right…I think that’s a great way to take advantage of the Melk Man’s arm & defensive ability while taking advantage of Gardner’s speed and range…my question is, why not do this all the time. would anybody take melky over swish or nady if you were presented with that option seeing as neither really lit it up at the plate last year”
an outfield of Gardner & Melky? Come’on now.
Doreen-
I was looking up Seaver’s pitchcount for the game & couldn’t find it, had to be over 120 tho.
Hal Baines always killed the Yanks & his defense in the game was excellent.
“ST is in place for guys to get ready for the season. That’s it.”
For players with an assured spot on the team, yes. But isn’t there also competition within ST for spots on the team and for slots within the team?
ST for Tex and CC isn’t exactly the same as ST for Gardner/Melky and some of the relievers.
Hokiehill,
Melky in right field is probably a worst case scenario. The Yankees really need at least one of Nady/Swisher to be a dependable player in the lineup this season.
“ST is in place for guys to get ready for the season. That’s it.”
Are you implying that as a blanket statement for all MLB teams or just a veteran laden team like the Yanks?
“do you mean if we had two players on a team and one was a pitcher and one was a hitter, you aren’t sure which one would be easier to improve?”
randy -
That’s exactly what I mean. Like you said, using your analysis, if they are each equally easy to improve, you should choose to improve the pitcher. If they’re not, it gets a little murky. As long as improving the pitcher is close in likelihood to improving the hitter, you improve the pitcher. But, there reaches a certain point where if it’s x amount more likely to improve the hitter than the pitcher, you should choose improving the hitter. I’m not sure what that point would be. Maybe that’s why those GMs and talent evaluators get paid the big bucks
DT
March 11th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
RE: Ice Question – Thanks GB.
I searched Google, I guess there are pro-ice/anti-ice factions.
This guy was a pro pitcher (ok, maybe not a pro, he was a Red Sox..lol) and he is against using ice.
http://www.pitching.com/articl.....-not-nice/
I wonder if it is up to the individual pitcher, or if it varies from club to club?
————————————————————
Some of them used icy hot or horse liniment, like Ford. Koufax, like I said only did it to get the swelling down. He’d soak it for about an hour. He said by the end of the game, it would be so swolen and the skin stretched so tight that it looked like plastic. One can only imagine what he could have done with a healthy arm and ten more years. He retired at the age of 30.
Nick in SF,
good point.
big difference between the proven guys and the younger guys.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I think spring training can be broken into 2 segments.
Before March 15th (or so) – used mainly to get some work for the younger guys and for the vets to get in shape
After March 15th – narrow down the rosters and get the vets and legitimate roster candidates some actual work
So how about guys competing for spots? Is it meaningless for them too?
Hey Nick.
Move go OK?
I had a chuckle of you having the word “Gamble” in your last post…
I can not wait for the NCAA tourney. My guess is that both CAL and BC will be 9-10th seeds…Your thoughts?
-dennis
Ahh, they don’t make ‘em like Tom Seaver anymore. He was my first favorite player in baseball.
Boston Dave,
The players don’t care about the results of the game.
Half the time the vets (especially for the home games) are gone before the game ends. If they cared about the results, they would stick around.
The results just don’t matter.
There is no explanation for fast/slow starts with players. Some players are just slow starters.
Conversely, several years ago, Tuffy Rhodes hit 3 HR’s on Opening Day for the Cubs and was off the team a month later.
Its why taking the daily temperature of a baseball team is an impossible act. Its a sport meant to be viewed with more of a long term view.
Nick,
Yes, in some cases, roster spots are up for grabs. However, even in those cases, that doesn’t really start cooking until you are about 2 weeks from the end of ST.
In other words, nobody fighting for a job on the Yankees, like Gardner for example, has anything sewn up right now.
Especially this ST because of its length due to the WBC.
DT,
Most teams give the “Spring Training matters” lip service nowadays to the media and the fans because you have a 24/7 news cycle. The first manager that says how he really feels about ST will get roasted on talk radio about “not understanding how important it is”.
So, they play the game to appease everybody.
In the end, ST is what’s its always been….a means to get ready for the season and nothing more.
Melancon needs to make this team. This is what he does! This is all he does! He works quickly and throws strikes. There was a game last year at AA where the manager said he came in to pitch with nobody out and the bases loaded he threw 7 pitches the first guy popped out and he K’s the other 2 swinging. This guy is hungry and hes a perfect Mo prodigy down the line.
Boston Dave -
Sometimes a traditional slow-starter just doesn’t play as well in the cold. You go through ST in Florida or Arizona where the temps are 70-90 pretty much every day. Then you have to head north and play games that have temps in the 40-60 range. That can be a big adjustment. Plus, playing baseball in the cold generally sucks. Harder to stay loose during the game. Hitting the ball in the wrong spot of the bat hurts more. Taking a ball off the shin/knee/thigh/hand hurts more. It’s just a more unpleasant experience (not that those things are necessarily pleasant in the warm weather, just not quite as unpleasant).
Also, you see guys like Tex and Bernie who are/were slow starters. That probably ties in to them being switch hitters. Where most players have to get one swing right for the season to start, they have to get two.
SJ –
I was thinking about Maddon and his Rays last year. After so many losing seasons, they looked at ST a different way.
(so they said)
Remember when Cervelli got bowled over?
I agree most vet teams are “just going through the motions”
Hi dennis. The move went pretty well, thanks for asking. I have my prize Elvis Costello poster already up on a wall, but the bobbleheads (those that weren’t banished to storage, that is) haven’t yet found a home.
No clue about BC. I think Cal would be a 7-8 seed today, most likely. They might fall a bit with a loss to USC tomorrow in the Pac-10 tourney or help themselves with a couple wins. If Cal were to actually win the tourney, knocking off UCLA and/or UW in the process, I could see them getting as high as a 3-5 seed. But my guess right now is they’ll end up with a 7.
How can a baseball fan NOT love the WBC??
I could be USA-The netherlands…wow. are you guys scared yet?lol
GB, Had Koufax pitched another 5 or 6 years, they would have changed the award from Cy Young to The Sandy Koufax Award….
“It could be USA-The netherlands…wow. are you guys scared yet?”
Nope. We have CIA operatives working as we speak trying to find out where Burt Blyleven is hiding the voodoo dolls.
Hi Roger. Responding to your comment from last night, yes, I do really like Amsterdam. Two of the visits were to see concerts at the Paradiso (Yo La Tengo with Lambchop, the Flaming Lips, and Elvis Costello), and the other two were basically just stopovers at the end of other trips. But deliberate, planned stopovers. Schippol also has great Duty Free shops!
DT,
Ironically, the guy who bowled over Cervelli didn’t even make the team. In the end, what good did it do?
Tampa won last year because their pitching stayed healthy all year. They were the only team in baseball that had 5 starters each make 25 or more starts.
While the, “We take ST differently now” story makes for a nice story, its urban legend.
As “intense” as they may have played ST, if their pitching didn’t stay healthy and effective, it wouldn’t have meant a thing.
No matter how folks want to break down the game, its still a game of pitching. The team with the best pitching usually wins.
Nick SF.
11-7 and 22 wins prior to the tourney in the Pac 10 should be good enough for a 7 seed. It will be interesting on Sunday eve.
Glad the move went well and Mr. Costello is comfortable.
-dennis
@nick
flying to Amsterdam to see a concert?You must be a big fan.That sounds like a groupie to me…haha no just joking!Schiphol is great but just don’t fly with a turkish airline…haha
But good to hear you had a good time
But why isn’t Pete commenting about this huge upset??
Nick in SF,,I have 2 extra tix for tomorrow’s games at Staples…As I’ve said all season, The Cal Berkley Bears are a Sweet 16 team, along with UCLA and Arizona State…Washington will get derailed in the 2nd round….My seats are about 5 rows off the court…..I usually sit in the Clear Channel suites, but the floors were available….Are you planning on catching the Yanks in Oakland , let me know and we’ll met at Lefty’s O’Douls after the game….
PAT M.
March 11th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
GB, Had Koufax pitched another 5 or 6 years, they would have changed the award from Cy Young to The Sandy Koufax Award….
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Probably so. Imagine his numbers had he played for a team that could hit. He probably had the most dominant 6 year period in baseball since Johnson, Mathewson and Young.
He was the best I ever saw…I mean we’ve been blessed to have watched some great pitchers, from Spann, Gibson, Ford, Seaver, Pedro, Maddox etc….However Koufax was the Babe of the mound….Whenthe greatest hitters from the greatest hitters era all say Sandy was the best, what elese is there to say…..
New thread.